The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: Old Warrior in Exile on June 06, 2017, 08:37:37 pm
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Indy Muslims call out creators of local billboard that insults Prophet Muhammad
Fatima Hussein and Justin L. Mack , IndyStar Published 2:04 p.m. ET June 5, 2017 | Updated 1 minute ago
An anti-Muslim billboard disparaging the Prophet Muhammad that can be seen from the southbound lanes of I-465 on the east side is drawing concern from local Muslims.
Now, Islamic leaders in Indianapolis are challenging those responsible for what they say are offensive and untrue statements to stand by their words, shed their anonymity and explain their motivations.
"It is a horrible billboard. I'm outraged by it, but saddened at the same time ... and I would like to know who is behind it," said Rima Shahid, executive director of the Muslim Alliance of Indiana. "It seems very cowardly to me. If you have some kind of stance, you should want to stand up next to your statement. I didn't think there was any room for hate in our city. This billboard tells me otherwise.
"This kind of rhetoric just furthers division in our state and makes a neighbor question a neighbor, just like I am today."
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Shahid said the billboard, which she saw on southbound I-465 near the Washington Street exit, was brought to her attention Friday by an anonymous tipster.
The all black billboard has a headline of "The Perfect Man." Underneath are six bullet points to describe that man. These points include "married a 6-year-old," "slave owner & dealer" and "13 wives, 11 at one time."
[snip]
(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/871791091393155072/P-zYAkMA?format=jpg&name=800x419)
http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2017/06/05/indianapolis-muslims-call-out-creators-local-billboard-insults-prophet-muhammad/370969001/
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The billboard also sits within the jurisdiction of Congressman Andre Carson, who is one of two Muslims serving in Congress.
Location Location Location!
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Boo frickin' hoo.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
Wouldn't do a damn thing.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
I say 'Suck it up, buttercup'. If your faith is so weak that a billboard gets you upset, maybe you should re-examine your faith.
Christians get bashed all the time, (Sharon Silverman, anyone?), so what?
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
The difference is pretty obvious.
To insult Jesus you have to lie.
To 'insult' Mohammed you just have to tell the truth.....
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The difference is pretty obvious.
To insult Jesus you have to lie.
To 'insult' Mohammed you just have to tell the truth.....
:thumbsup:
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So, if it's wrong, then let's see the evidence against it.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
@Jazzhead
How is it slander? He did all of those things.
My Lord, Jesus, didn't do any of those things.
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I say 'Suck it up, buttercup'. If your faith is so weak that a billboard gets you upset, maybe you should re-examine your faith.
Christians get bashed all the time, (Sharon Silverman, anyone?), so what?
@dfwgator
They aren't upset because its slander or a lie, they are upset because its the truth. If you go to Afghanistan they'll use those very things to justify their own actions. "My prophet did it so it must be good"
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JayZ is over at DU looking for some talking points. He'll be back shortly with "evidence" to show us how Christian's react badly.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
slander
http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx/Default.aspx?selected=1969
n. oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another, which untruth will harm the reputation of the person defamed...
What part of the billboard did you think was slander?
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The difference is pretty obvious.
To insult Jesus you have to lie.
To 'insult' Mohammed you just have to tell the truth.....
Well said.
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@dfwgator
They aren't upset because its slander or a lie, they are upset because its the truth. If you go to Afghanistan they'll use those very things to justify their own actions. "My prophet did it so it must be good"
But that's not what they're saying:
Indiana representative Andre Carson said he believes the billboard is untrue and that the billboard's author takes Islamic text and history out of context "just like Al-Qaeda, ISIS and the Klan do to religious texts to justify their bigotry."
They're saying it's not true. I would like to hear their argument about how it isn't true.
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JayZ is over at DU looking for some talking points. He'll be back shortly with "evidence" to show us how Christian's react badly.
I, for one, welcome anyone to go get "talking points" and "evidence" from DU or anywhere else, if it provides truth. If these are false claims on the billboard, I want to be educated about that fact, don't you?
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I, for one, welcome anyone to go get "talking points" and "evidence" from DU or anywhere else, if it provides truth. If these are false claims on the billboard, I want to be educated about that fact, don't you?
He is an an erudite scholar in liberalisms.
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The truth hurts sometimes.
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The truth hurts sometimes.
Yes, it does. And it's bothersome that many people are afraid to seek it without worrying what it might reveal.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
With disappointment as well; but they'd be forced to suck it up and would be excoriated for complaining about it. Double standards are double standards.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
It's not slander (or libel) if it's accurate. Which it is.
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The difference is pretty obvious.
To insult Jesus you have to lie.
To 'insult' Mohammed you just have to tell the truth.....
goopo
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Muslims should and need to be ridiculed more often for what is done in the name of Allah and their acceptance of it. Muslim shaming. They need a wake-up call. And it ain't a call to prayer.
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Within article:
"It's just a group of cowards who are not even ready to put their name behind it," Shahid said as she expressed the pain she felt to see this billboard in the midst of Ramadan. "It is very hard ... and I would like to find the people who are behind this and talk to the them about who came up with these, and it seems appropriate to use this term, alternative facts.
I checked the web and cannot find a quote from this same woman concerning the condemnation of the killings in London during Ramadan either.
Which is worse: Telling the truth on a 'Reiligion' that promotes violence, or actually performing violence.
Until there are billboards set up by those Muslims to condemn that violence by other Muslims, there is no way this billboard should come down.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
Did the left leap to Christians' defense when some a-hole dropped a crucifix in a jar of his own urine and called it "art"?
No, they defended it as 'free speech'.
At least this billboard tells defensible truths.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
The billboard is not bigotry- it is 100% factual so it is not slander which is verbal nor is it libel (written). *****rollingeyes*****
Christians have endured foul "art" attacking Jesus and their complaints are ignored.
There is no comparison to be made between a 7th century madman and Jesus.
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I read the billboard again and I see no where on it that it specifically names Mohammed nor any other Muslim. So, why would they assume it was meant for them? Unless they know something they think we don't know.
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All sorts of excuses for bigotry. I am disgusted beyond words.
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So the reporter asserts that "Islamic leaders" in Indiana assert that the characterization are "untrue", but we have no quote to that effect from any of them.
Could that be because to deny the characterizations, you have to deny the validity of Hadiths that are generally received by Muslims as being valid, and which for some of these "insults" form the basis for interpretation of points in the Qu'ran for many fiqh? Now one can, and still claim to be a Muslim, for instance the Qu'ran Only Movement (a tiny sect) denies the validity of all of the Hadiths. Somehow I doubt Indiana has a large Qu'ran Only Movement community that is raising the objections.
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*****rollingeyes*****
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All sorts of excuses for bigotry. I am disgusted beyond words.
Really, @Jazzhead? I'm not seeing any excuses. Perhaps you are mistaken.
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Really, @Jazzhead? I'm not seeing any excuses. Perhaps you are mistaken.
Perhaps you are willfully blind. But I doubt it.
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The difference is pretty obvious.
To insult Jesus you have to lie.
To 'insult' Mohammed you just have to tell the truth.....
Genius!
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Facts are bigots.
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Perhaps you are willfully blind. But I doubt it.
Pot, meet Kettle.
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Perhaps you are willfully blind. But I doubt it.
Nope - generally, bigotry is an unfounded dislike of a group of whatevers. Where is the bigotry on this thread?
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All sorts of excuses for bigotry. I am disgusted beyond words.
Definition of bigot
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
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Which religion teaches you must convert to theirs or die?
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All sorts of excuses for bigotry. I am disgusted beyond words.
Concern troll
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Which religion teaches you must convert to theirs or die?
Well, Christianity certainly does.
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Well, Christianity certainly does.
I will provide you the quran quotes. Please provide the bible quotes.
Quran (8:38-39) - “Say to those who have disbelieved, if they cease (from disbelief) their past will be forgiven... And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world ]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.”
Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."
Quran (9:5) "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them..."
Quran (2:193) - "And fight them until fitna is no more, and religion be only for Allah. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrong-doers."
Qur'an (3:83) - "Are they seeking a religion other than Allah's, when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?"
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I will provide you the quran quotes. Please provide the bible quotes....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v165/crutch999/agent%20k%20flashy_zps2c206mva.jpg)
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Well, Christianity certainly does.
Once again proving that you claim to be Christian, but are ignorant of even the basics.
Perhaps it would be best not to argue against Christianity among believing Christians, @Jazzhead .
You can keep arguing until the cows come home but you can't win because you just don't know enough.
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Well, Christianity certainly does.
Really?
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We are just getting warmed up you goatf***ers.
(http://s24.postimg.org/4318s9dat/fcxgs.jpg)
It took 400 years worth of rape, pillage, and murder before anyone fought back the first time!
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
Happens all the time. Jesus is slandered and ridiculed and lied about all the time.
Don't see anyone rioting or calling for the death of the person who puts up the sign or draws the cartoon.
Your attempt at an analogy between the two needs a LOT of work.
Oh and BTW...what on that billboard talking about the Pedophile Prophet is false?
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Well, Christianity certainly does.
That is pure Grade A 100% barnyard fertilizer.
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Really?
Actually............... no. It doesn't.
(But methinks Jazz already knows that).
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Well, Christianity certainly does.
Allow me to rephrase then... which religion teaches to convert to their's or die be put to death?
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Actually............... no. It doesn't.
(But methinks Jazz already knows that).
I'm not so sure of that, @musiclady.
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Once again proving that you claim to be Christian, but are ignorant of even the basics.
Perhaps it would be best not to argue against Christianity among believing Christians, @Jazzhead .
You can keep arguing until the cows come home but you can't win because you just don't know enough.
It is a tenet of Christianity that salvation can be achieved only by accepting Christ, is it not? Am I incorrect that "believing Christians" insist on conversion as a prerequisite for life after death?
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I will provide you the quran quotes. Please provide the bible quotes.
@Jazzhead
Perhaps you are having trouble finding the biblical instructions to Christians how to handle non-believers. This may help you:
Jesus Sends Out the Twelve
http://biblehub.com/niv/matthew/10.htm
5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,a drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
9 “Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— 10 no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. 11 Whatever town or village you enter, search there for some worthy person and stay at their house until you leave. 12 As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet. 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
The World Hates the Disciples
http://biblehub.com/niv/john/15.htm
18 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’b If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me hates my Father as well. 24 If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: ‘They hated me without reason.’
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Christ taught those of the world and not of the spirit would hate us. He taught us that the world hated him first. He never taught that we should kill those who will not agree with us. Salvation in life everlasting will be our reward, we need not seek acceptance and conversion of others while on the world.
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Aaannnnnnnnndddddddddd, another thread devolves into a religious debate. :threadjack:
If only we could stay on topic!
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It is a tenet of Christianity that salvation can be achieved only by accepting Christ, is it not? Am I incorrect that "believing Christians" insist on conversion as a prerequisite for life after death?
Are you equating life after death with "convert to Islam or we will behead you"? If you are, then you are grotesquely off-base.
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It is a tenet of Christianity that salvation can be achieved only by accepting Christ, is it not? Am I incorrect that "believing Christians" insist on conversion as a prerequisite for life after death?
Show us where the "convert to our religion or we'll kill you" is located in the Bible please.
Again you're attempt to equate Islam with Christianity is falling woefully short.
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It is a tenet of Christianity that salvation can be achieved only by accepting Christ, is it not? Am I incorrect that "believing Christians" insist on conversion as a prerequisite for life after death?
Am I incorrect to understand you equate not having eternal salvation with requiring your believer to fight those nonbelievers on earth to conversion, submission or death?
Believing in consequences for your choices in life is hardly the same as teaching your believers to not permit others with different beliefs to exist except in submission to you.
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Allow me to rephrase then... which religion teaches to convert to their's or die be put to death?
Got it. Skeeter, you're the only one savvy enough to understand what I was getting at. Christians are just as fanatical as Muslims in insisting their way or the highway, if you seek life after death.
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It is a tenet of Christianity that salvation can be achieved only by accepting Christ, is it not? Am I incorrect that "believing Christians" insist on conversion as a prerequisite for life after death?
Now, you're just arguing to argue. That wasn't what you said originally. Remember this (from a few minutes ago):
Quote from: thackney on Today at 09:22:18 AM
Which religion teaches you must convert to theirs or die?
Well, Christianity certainly does.
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Are you equating life after death with "convert to Islam or we will behead you"? If you are, then you are grotesquely off-base.
That is exactly what he's doing.
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Aaannnnnnnnndddddddddd, another thread devolves into a religious debate. :threadjack:
If only we could stay on topic!
Thanks JayZ.
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Got it. Skeeter, you're the only one savvy enough to understand what I was getting at. Christians are just as fanatical as Muslims in insisting their way or the highway, if you seek life after death.
No not really.
For someone who claims to be a Christian...you are exposing a significant lack of knowledge about the Bible as well as the tenets of the Christian faith.
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You cannot coexist with those who only seek to kill you!
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It is a tenet of Christianity that salvation can be achieved only by accepting Christ, is it not? Am I incorrect that "believing Christians" insist on conversion as a prerequisite for life after death?
But it is not "convert or we will kill you". It was "convert and you will live forever".
That's a vast difference from compulsory conversion. Besides, forcing someone to convert to your religion is not a religious act. It's a political act.
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Aaannnnnnnnndddddddddd, another thread devolves into a religious debate. :threadjack:
If only we could stay on topic!
Wasn't religious belief the topic of the thread in the first place?
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Got it. Skeeter, you're the only one savvy enough to understand what I was getting at. Christians are just as fanatical as Muslims in insisting their way or the highway, if you seek life after death.
You're rationalizing. There is utterly no comparison between the two - none.
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Allow me to rephrase then... which religion teaches to convert to their's or die be put to death?
@skeeter
You communicated well enough the first time.
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Wasn't religious belief the topic of the thread in the first place?
A billboard that offended Muslims was the subject, not Christian apologetics. But it was just an observation, not telling anyone what to discuss. :shrug:
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Got it. Skeeter, you're the only one savvy enough to understand what I was getting at. Christians are just as fanatical as Muslims in insisting their way or the highway, if you seek life after death.
Hmmm. But Muslims are exhorted to put unbelievers to death in this life, not just to attempt to persuade them that they won't have an afterlife. Therein lies a world of difference.
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But it is not "convert or we will kill you". It was "convert and you will live forever".
I don't want to speak for @Jazzhead ... but I think the point he is making...whether right or wrong... is more like: "convert or we will kill you now" v "don't convert and you will die later".
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I don't want to speak for @Jazzhead ... but I think the point he is making...whether right or wrong... is more like: "convert or we will kill you now" v "don't convert and you will die later".
Well....ok. That makes as much sense as JH's statement. :shrug:
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I've seen and experienced Islam it up close and personal on three separate occasions in three different countries on three separate continents.
The apologists for Islam are either clueless about what it really stands for...your average MSM reporter and/or politician/Lib...or they know what it stands for and go before a microphone and lie.
The Bible is limited strictly to how to conduct your religious life so to speak.
Islam encompasses every aspect of your personal and public life. From clothes to wear foods to eat to banking and business practices.
It's the real world Theocracy that non believers in this country try to convince us Christianity is.
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Are you equating life after death with "convert to Islam or we will behead you"? If you are, then you are grotesquely off-base.
No, now you're being dishonest. The quote I was responding to was the following:
Which religion teaches you must convert to theirs or die?
That's exactly what Christianity teaches - accept Christ or die. Bible-believing Christians consider Jews and Muslims to be worm food.
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No, now you're being dishonest. The quote I was responding to was the following:
That's exactly what Christianity teaches - accept Christ or die. Bible-believing Christians consider Jews and Muslims to be worm food.
@Jazzhead
We're all worm food in the end. Christians do not seek to expedite that end with anyone who is a non believer. Despite the bigoted lies told by some.
Islam however instructs it's followers to kill those who don't accept their religion.
You still have not answered the questions about this billboard. It doesn't reference Islam and is factual. What is wrong with it?
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Funny..... how the billboard doesn't even say 'who' that perfect man might be. But the Muslimes all know who it refers to....lol.
They implicated themselves via their own outrage. Truthophobes. Gotta love the irony.
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Well....ok. That makes as much sense as JH's statement. :shrug:
Who's JH? @Sanguine
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No, now you're being dishonest. The quote I was responding to was the following:
That's exactly what Christianity teaches - accept Christ or die. Bible-believing Christians consider Jews and Muslims to be worm food.
Actually.... it's not. Not even close.
Christianity teaches: The spiritual path to God AFTER you die is only through Jesus Christ. Nothing is said about "or die" while living. The key difference is spiritually vs. corporally.... ie while in human flesh.
Why are you being willfully obtuse and/or stirring the pot here? Troll much? Have the sudden need to get the thread shut down..... for "some" reason? lolol
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I don't want to speak for @Jazzhead ... but I think the point he is making...whether right or wrong... is more like: "convert or we will kill you now" v "don't convert and you will die later".
This branch of discussion came from my post in response to an accusation of bigotry:
Definition of bigot
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (such as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
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Which religion teaches you must convert to theirs or die?
and @Jazzhead response:
Well, Christianity certainly does.
Both religions have problems with unbelievers. Scriptural teaching of Christianity says to preach to them but move on if they won't accept it. Scriptural teaching of Islam says fight unbelievers until they convert, submit or die.
Which one sounds like bigotry to you?
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Aaannnnnnnnndddddddddd, another thread devolves into a religious debate. :threadjack:
If only we could stay on topic!
@mountaineer
Isn't the topic that of a religious leader?
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Who's JH? @Sanguine
Jazzhead. Sorry, in a hurry.
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Actually.... it's not. Not even close.
Christianity teaches: The spiritual path to God AFTER you die is only through Jesus Christ. Nothing is said about "or die" while living. The key difference is spiritually vs. corporally.... ie while in human flesh.
Why are you being willfully obtuse and/or stirring the pot here? Troll much? Have the sudden need to get the thread shut down..... for "some" reason? lolol
I'm not sure he's doing either. The Muslim faith teaches convert or die now. The Christian faith teaches Jesus is the only way to everlasting life. What I think @Jazzhead is saying @XenaLee is the other way of looking at this tenent of Christianity is convert or die later (forfeit everlasting life).
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I'm not sure he's doing either. The Muslim faith teaches convert or die now. The Christian faith teaches Jesus is the only way to everlasting life. What I think @Jazzhead is saying @XenaLee is the other way of looking at this tenent of Christianity is convert or die later (forfeit everlasting life).
That's not even close to what he said though.
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Jazzhead. Sorry, in a hurry.
LOL! Thanks.. makes sense @Sanguine ..
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That's exactly what Christianity teaches - accept Christ or die. Bible-believing Christians consider Jews and Muslims to be worm food.
You are just trolling.
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You are just trolling.
Of course he is. It's what gives him a chubby.
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You are just trolling.
But only since he joined up!
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That's not even close to what he said though.
What @Jazzhead posted was ... ah ... rough. But, this is what I got out of it. @Sanguine FWIW :shrug:
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No, now you're being dishonest. The quote I was responding to was the following:
That's exactly what Christianity teaches - accept Christ or die. Bible-believing Christians consider Jews and Muslims to be worm food.
That is not what Christianity teaches. We are all destined to die. Christianity teaches that if you convert then you will be saved from dying. That is a very big difference, and the grotesquery consists in trying to equate the two.
There are much better bases on which to try and persuade people to find a modus vivendi in the here and now, but a specious conflation of very different religious theologies is not one of them.
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I'm not sure he's doing either. The Muslim faith teaches convert or die now. The Christian faith teaches Jesus is the only way to everlasting life. What I think @Jazzhead is saying @XenaLee is the other way of looking at this tenent of Christianity is convert or die later (forfeit everlasting life).
That's not what he said. And judging by his past performances here, I doubt that's what he meant. But thanks (he thanks you, I'm sure) for trying.
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That's not what he said. And judging by his past performances here, I doubt that's what he meant. But thanks (he thanks you, I'm sure) for trying.
I tried ^-^ @XenaLee
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Got it. Skeeter, you're the only one savvy enough to understand what I was getting at. Christians are just as fanatical as Muslims in insisting their way or the highway, if you seek life after death.
So what? A particular religion's view of how one obtains life after death, or if that is even possible at all, is relevant only if you are a believer in that religion. If you don't believe what that religion teaches, then who cares what it has to say about life after death? "My way or the highway" in that context is irrelevant.
But it is very far from a non-issue if religious beliefs are used as justification to use force against other people in this life.
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Funny..... how the billboard doesn't even say 'who' that perfect man might be. But the Muslimes all know who it refers to....lol.
They implicated themselves via their own outrage. Truthophobes. Gotta love the irony.
Excellent point! muzzies consider the murderous pedophile the "perfect man" and have outed themselves.
There is no comparison or equivalency of the teachings of Jesus Christ and the perverted evil 7th century madman.
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A brief reminder: We do not discuss religious doctrine on TBR. Please cease, or I'll be forced to lock this thread temporarily.
It always devolves into people thinking they've been told they're going to Hell, and that will not be tolerated.
Thank you.
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A brief reminder: We do not discuss religious doctrine on TBR. Please cease, or I'll be forced to lock this thread temporarily.
It always devolves into people thinking they've been told they're going to Hell, and that will not be tolerated.
Thank you.
But accusing other members of bigotry is okay???
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But accusing other members of bigotry is okay???
We get that a lot of that here, it's a very easy insult to bandy about. We are relying on the affected parties to click the Report to Moderator so we can have a look at the post and decide on a case-by-case basis. There are a lot of posts on this thread that are pushing the line.
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We get that a lot of that here, it's a very easy insult to bandy about. We are relying on the affected parties to click the Report to Moderator so we can have a look at the post and decide on a case-by-case basis. There are a lot of posts on this thread that are pushing the line.
Mine is one of them, I know (sorry about that).
But keep in mind that whenever a topic like this (for example, negative truths posted about Islam or about the left) is posted here.... just like at other forums.... there will be certain poster "types" that will swoop in and start posting inflammatory comments to stir the pot.... in hopes of getting enough bickering rhetoric going that the thread is shut down. It's their only method of censorship ...since they have no power here to censor the actual topics. Oddly enough, that behavior is not against the rules. But maybe it should be..? :shrug:
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But it is very far from a non-issue if religious beliefs are used as justification to use force against other people in this life.
Of course. That's why I oppose Islamofascism. But to ascribe such murderousness to Muslims in general is contemptible bigotry.
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Of course. That's why I oppose Islamofascism. But to ascribe such murderousness to Muslims in general is contemptible bigotry.
And there's another one
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Of course. That's why I oppose Islamofascism. But to ascribe such murderousness to Muslims in general is contemptible bigotry.
No, it's willful blindness to NOT ascribe such murderousness to those who follow the cult of the prophet.
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No, it's willful blindness to NOT ascribe such murderousness to those who follow the cult of the prophet.
The billboard doesn't accuse Islam of anything. Nor have most of the posters here. Most posts are simply saying the billboard is an accurate portrayal of the man Islam considers their prophet.
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The billboard doesn't accuse Islam of anything. Nor have most of the posters here. Most posts are simply saying the billboard is an accurate portrayal of the man Islam considers their prophet.
Yes. And?
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Yes. And?
And apparently thats bigoted and hateful.
Apparently we are supposed to ignore history.
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Of course. That's why I oppose Islamofascism. But to ascribe such murderousness to Muslims in general is contemptible bigotry.
Give it a rest. You would be much better off arguing that, like most religions, a lot of practitioners don't incorporate the more offensive parts of the strictly technical theology/ideology into their everyday lives. You won't get where you want to get by arguing philosophical niceties based on the Koran itself because, with all due respect, it does contain the incitements to violence that the Christian bible does not contain.
In other words, you'd be better off arguing that people tend to be individuals first, doctrinaires second.
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And apparently thats bigoted and hateful.
Apparently we are supposed to ignore history.
And we all know what happens when people ignore history...
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I would say the billboard promotes an Inconvenient Truth about a political movement. It would be the same if the billboard spoke of Bill Clinton's affairs. Whether it is the truth is irrelevant. It is an attack on a political group (liberals) and they must defend themselves against the truth.
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And apparently thats bigoted and hateful.
Apparently we are supposed to ignore history.
Ah. Thanks.
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I'm not so sure of that, @musiclady.
Perhaps not. But I kind of hope it's a game and not reality to him..... :shrug:
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Of course. That's why I oppose Islamofascism. But to ascribe such murderousness to Muslims in general is contemptible bigotry.
@Jazzhead
Is there more than one Islamic prophet named Mohammed? Do non-violent muslims pray to a different prophet? Is the Quran they use written by someone else?
No, there is only one of them. One Quran and one Islamic faith. One man who's name was mohammed and who claimed to be the prophet for the muslims. He created their religion through the same type of actions that ISIS is doing currently. Those are facts.
In fact shortly after their prophets death without resurrection, his army fought many battles with the Spanish and French. After winning a particular battle where the Spanish surrendered his Lieutenants ordered the slaughter of all remaining fighters. Making a dry river bed run with blood. After killing the local king the Lieutenant then raped the queen. Right there in the blood of her now dead husband. Those are the type of men who sat beside their prophet.
The difference is that some muslims don't adhere to a strict interpretation of the Quran and associated doctrine. The best estimates are that 70 to 80% of the Muslims in the world fall into this latter category. The problem is they tend to follow the other 300 million Muslims who are willing to kill to enforce their faith.
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@Jazzhead
Is there more than one Islamic prophet named Mohammed? Do non-violent muslims pray to a different prophet? Is the Quran they use written by someone else?
Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran. He spoke it for 23 years. After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.
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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran. He spoke it for 23 years. After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.
That is because Mohammed himself was totally illiterate.
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Give it a rest. You would be much better off arguing that, like most religions, a lot of practitioners don't incorporate the more offensive parts of the strictly technical theology/ideology into their everyday lives. You won't get where you want to get by arguing philosophical niceties based on the Koran itself because, with all due respect, it does contain the incitements to violence that the Christian bible does not contain.
In other words, you'd be better off arguing that people tend to be individuals first, doctrinaires second.
Maybe we should suggest to him it would be best to try to persuade them to not murder our people, rather than jailing them when they do. But what do I know? I'm a disgrace. :shrug:
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@Jazzhead
Is there more than one Islamic prophet named Mohammed? Do non-violent muslims pray to a different prophet? Is the Quran they use written by someone else?
No, there is only one of them. One Quran and one Islamic faith. One man who's name was mohammed and who claimed to be the prophet for the muslims. He created their religion through the same type of actions that ISIS is doing currently. Those are facts.
In fact shortly after their prophets death without resurrection, his army fought many battles with the Spanish and French. After winning a particular battle where the Spanish surrendered his Lieutenants ordered the slaughter of all remaining fighters. Making a dry river bed run with blood. After killing the local king the Lieutenant then raped the queen. Right there in the blood of her now dead husband. Those are the type of men who sat beside their prophet.
The difference is that some muslims don't adhere to a strict interpretation of the Quran and associated doctrine. The best estimates are that 70 to 80% of the Muslims in the world fall into this latter category. The problem is they tend to follow the other 300 million Muslims who are willing to kill to enforce their faith.
And.... the so-called "moderate, peaceful" Muslims don't exactly rise up and denounce each and every terrorist incident en masse. Granted, they may be afraid to do so, but still.... how else can one take that refusal to denounce Islamic terrorism but as unspoken approval?
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Whether it has incitements to violence is irrelevant. We ignore most of what is in the Bible. This is political, not religious violence. If it was religious, they wouldn't kill each other wholesale as they do. They would all be united under the Koran. The Koran doesn't cause people to kill. It's just a book.
The Church burned people 1000 years ago for opposing the church government, not the religion itself. These are all political struggles. Liberals are not upset about the billboards because they care about religion. They are upset because the boards make them look bad .
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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran. He spoke it for 23 years. After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.
Now, be careful. Don't try to tell that to a true believer.
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Now, be careful. Don't try to tell that to a true believer.
A "true believer", one educated in their own religion, will have discovered Mohammed illiteracy is part of their justification the words of the Quran was revealed to him by the spirits. He wasn't capable of reading it somewhere else then repeating it.
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A "true believer", one educated in their own religion, will have discovered Mohammed illiteracy is part of their justification the words of the Quran was revealed to him by the spirits. He wasn't capable of reading it somewhere else then repeating it.
I was using the term as used by Hoffer.
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A "true believer", one educated in their own religion, will have discovered Mohammed illiteracy is part of their justification the words of the Quran was revealed to him by the spirits. He wasn't capable of reading it somewhere else then repeating it.
"Going from memory" also makes a great excuse for slip shod translating.
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I was using the term as used by Hoffer.
Who is Hoffer?
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Who is Hoffer?
It's when you give a dollar amount for something.
"I hoffer him $20 for his hat, but he wanted $25."
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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran. He spoke it for 23 years. After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.
@thackney @Bigun
There is some evidence that the Quran is based on writings in place well before Mohammed was born.
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@thackney @Bigun
There is some evidence that the Quran is based on writings in place well before Mohammed was born.
Thank you. I had not read that before. Any links for more info?
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@thackney @Bigun
There is some evidence that the Quran is based on writings in place well before Mohammed was born.
Mohammedville........ Home of Plagiarism and Nervous Goats.
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Who is Hoffer?
Eric Hoffer, but I like Frank's explanation too. Just not as much.
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It's when you give a dollar amount for something.
"I hoffer him $20 for his hat, but he wanted $25."
:silly:
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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran. He spoke it for 23 years. After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.
If that's the case, then why is it so different over time? I.e., it's my impression that it's inconsistent, written over a period of time, showing a progression of thought. Is that wrong?
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It's when you give a dollar amount for something.
"I hoffer him $20 for his hat, but he wanted $25."
Kinda like I'll give you a nickle if you tickle my pickle….i'll give you a dime if you take your time. ... Give me a dollar and I'll make you holler...
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If that's the case, then why is it so different over time? I.e., it's my impression that it's inconsistent, written over a period of time, showing a progression of thought. Is that wrong?
I believe portions of it were written down by others while Mohammed still lived. It was compiled together into a single book after he died.
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Percent of population that is muslim:
*Israel 17.7%
Georgia 10.5
Bulgaria 7.8
France 7.5
Austria 6.8
Belgium 5.9
Greece 5.3
Sweden 5.0
Switzerland 5.0
Liechtenstein 4.8
UK 4.8
Denmark 4.1
Spain 4.1
Italy 3.7
Slovenia 3.6
Norway 3.0
Luxembourg 2.3
Germany 2.0-5.7
*Canada 1.9-3.2
*China 1.8
Croatia 1.4
Ireland 1.3
*US 0.8
Finland 0.8
Portugal 0.6
*Argentina 2.5
*Australia 2.2
*New Zealand 0.9
*Non Europe
Per Wikipedia
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Thank you. I had not read that before. Any links for more info?
@thackney
https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/338/did-muhammad-author-quran/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/magazine/07wwln-essay-t.html
http://radicaltruth.net/index.php/learn/radical-truth-islam/137-who-wrote-the-quran
https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=354949
three sources in no particular order. a simple google search finds a bunch of sources pro and con.
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@thackney
https://www.islamreligion.com/articles/338/did-muhammad-author-quran/
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/magazine/07wwln-essay-t.html
http://radicaltruth.net/index.php/learn/radical-truth-islam/137-who-wrote-the-quran
https://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=354949
three sources in no particular order. a simple google search finds a bunch of sources pro and con.
Thanks I will try to learn more. It appears quite a dispute view within the muslim community.
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Not to take away from your points, but Mohammed did not write the Quran. He spoke it for 23 years. After his death, several of his companions compiled it into one document from what they had written down and remembered.
@thackney
Appreciate the way you put that. I didn't want to introduce that concept into the response preferring at the time to go with the idea that Big mo wrote it. Since thats a basic tenet of their faith I thought it better to avoid it at the time.
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Well, Christianity certainly does.
Kindly quote the scripture which says you must convert to Christianity or die.
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Got it. Skeeter, you're the only one savvy enough to understand what I was getting at. Christians are just as fanatical as Muslims in insisting their way or the highway, if you seek life after death.
Sorry, chum, you even got that incorrect.
Christianity says there will be life after death.
It just says that life will be far more pleasant for those who believe than those who do not.
As far as this life goes, there is no mandate whatsoever to go killing people who do not believe in Christ.
Islam is wired a little differently, there.
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Sorry, chum, you even got that incorrect.
You bastard. I'm choking on a peanut ...turning blue and I don't know how to self Heimlich ....
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I believe portions of it were written down by others while Mohammed still lived. It was compiled together into a single book after he died.
That was my understanding. Thanks for clarifying..
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You bastard. I'm choking on a peanut ...turning blue and I don't know how to self Heimlich ....
If you can still read this, walk around to the back of a chair, fold your hands on the back of it, tuck them into your stomach and abruptly sag your weight onto the chair.
If that doesn't work you should be out cold by now and maybe having an out of body experience. Kick yourself in the ribs a few times, that should knock it loose.
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You bastard. I'm choking on a peanut ...turning blue and I don't know how to self Heimlich ....
Climb up on your garage roof and belly flop onto your driveway. Works like a charm.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
First of all, a false written statement is libel, not slander, which is spoken. Plus it's not libel or slander if what is written or spoken is true, such as in the case of this billboard.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
They probably don't react at all.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1712641/images/o-JESUS-MUSLIM-facebook.jpg)
Next?
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They probably don't react at all.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1712641/images/o-JESUS-MUSLIM-facebook.jpg)
Next?
:2popcorn:
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They probably don't react at all.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1712641/images/o-JESUS-MUSLIM-facebook.jpg)
Next?
You are late to the Party. Been in meetings?
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They probably don't react at all.
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1712641/images/o-JESUS-MUSLIM-facebook.jpg)
Next?
Someone should contact the good folks at Ask-A-Muslim.com to prove their assertion.
Namely how Jesus can be a Muslim when Muhammad dreamed up his death cult 600 years after Jesus completed his three year earthly ministry and, to my knowledge, hasn't said anything since to contradict a word of it.
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Can anyone here imagine someone trying to make the case that only the radical Nazis are the problem and that regular Nazis are just fine and should be welcomed into the county and not resisted?
I fail to see much difference.
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And.... the so-called "moderate, peaceful" Muslims don't exactly rise up and denounce each and every terrorist incident en masse. Granted, they may be afraid to do so, but still.... how else can one take that refusal to denounce Islamic terrorism but as unspoken approval?
Been waiting since 9/11/2001 for the "peaceful moderate" muslims to turn in the jihadis among them. They haven't and they won't. Tacit complicity.
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Someone should contact the good folks at Ask-A-Muslim.com to prove their assertion.
Namely how Jesus can be a Muslim when Muhammad dreamed up his death cult 600 years after Jesus completed his three year earthly ministry and, to my knowledge, hasn't said anything since to contradict a word of it.
Probably because they accept Jesus as a prophet (just not the big cheese).
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Probably because they accept Jesus as a prophet (just not the big cheese).
In other words, Jesus is a muslim because muslims say so.
They sound like progressives.
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In other words, Jesus is a muslim because muslims say so.
They sound like progressives.
I'm not disagreeing. I find the claim more than a little far-fetched.
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I'm not disagreeing. I find the claim more than a little far-fetched.
They claim Isa ibn Maryam (Jesus, Son of Mary) to be a prophet and messenger of God.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam) But not the Messiah.
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They claim Isa ibn Maryam (Jesus, Son of Mary) to be a prophet and messenger of God.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_Islam) But not the Messiah.
Exactly.
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Someone should contact the good folks at Ask-A-Muslim.com to prove their assertion.
Namely how Jesus can be a Muslim when Muhammad dreamed up his death cult 600 years after Jesus completed his three year earthly ministry and, to my knowledge, hasn't said anything since to contradict a word of it.
When you visit Nazareth, the one thing that stands out is the Muslims with bull horns and pamphlets trying to sell people there on the ways of Islam.
Yup right there in the birthplace of Jesus.
And would you believe that not a single Muslim is harmed or threatened or beaten for what they are doing?
Now...imagine a group of Christians trying to do the same thing on a street corner in Gaza City. Or Mecca.
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Exactly.
They also claim it's ok to have sex with sheep and goats as long as you don't sell the meat in your village. You have to sell it in another village.
I don't buy that either
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Exactly.
Its ironic - muslims vigorously defended Jesus during the 'Last Temptation of Christ' kerfuffle years back. I heard they consider Christ a prophet then and recall wondering why Christians never fought that energetically to defend their faith.
I'm sure one day soon we'll have no choice.
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They also claim it's ok to have sex with sheep and goats as long as you don't sell the meat in your village. You have to sell it in another village.
I don't buy that either
I didn't say I bought it either.
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I didn't say I bought it either.
Wasn't saying you did. I was saying they say a lot of wrong stuff.
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When you visit Nazareth, the one thing that stands out is the Muslims with bull horns and pamphlets trying to sell people there on the ways of Islam.
Yup right there in the birthplace of Jesus.
And would you believe that not a single Muslim is harmed or threatened or beaten for what they are doing?
Now...imagine a group of Christians trying to do the same thing on a street corner in Gaza City. Or Mecca.
I have difficulty imagining the pilgrim who travels thousands of miles to the holy land to genuflect at the birthplace of Christ and decides they'd rather follow Allah instead because of what some lice infested creep bellowing into a bullhorn there says.
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I have difficulty imagining the pilgrim who travels thousands of miles to the holy land to genuflect at the birthplace of Christ and decides they'd rather follow Allah instead because of what some lice infested creep bellowing into a bullhorn there says.
It was interesting to see them trying...and failing to convert the tourists and the pilgrims.
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I have difficulty imagining the pilgrim who travels thousands of miles to the holy land to genuflect at the birthplace of Christ and decides they'd rather follow Allah instead because of what some lice infested creep bellowing into a bullhorn there says.
@skeeter
I doubt they expect to convert. They are doing the work of Satan. They are there interfering with the worship of all those people.
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That is pure Grade A 100% barnyard fertilizer.
No, because the barnyard fertilizer you refer to has inherent value.
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(https://i1.wp.com/www.barenakedislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/CVwxQpJWIAAFX3qvi-vi.jpg)
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They also claim it's ok to have sex with sheep and goats as long as you don't sell the meat in your village. You have to sell it in another village.
I don't buy that either
I wouldn't buy it either. Ewwww!
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Its ironic - muslims vigorously defended Jesus during the 'Last Temptation of Christ' kerfuffle years back. I heard they consider Christ a prophet then and recall wondering why Christians never fought that energetically to defend their faith.
I'm sure one day soon we'll have no choice.
The Muslims considered him to be a very important prophet (just not quite important enough, and not the Messiah), but also one who never married, etc. There isn't any quibbling with them over their beliefs, after all, "it is written" in that case means not only is it part of scripture which shall not be changed (at all) under penalty of death, but also implies that it was very important, by virtue of being written down.
In Islam Jesus (Isa ibn Maryam) is considered a prophet (which is why they consider Him Muslim, because He couldn't be a prophet if not Muslim, now, could He?) who was born sinless and who neither wed nor had children, who spoke as an infant, healed the sick, cast out demons, and raised the dead as well as breathed life into inanimate objects (a bird made of clay).
The Last Temptation of Christ defied that account, and thus, defied Islamic teachings--and pretty much the New Testament accounts as well.
The salient difference is that to defy the Quran by any alteration is to change the scripture, a grave sin against Islam (the penalty for a Muslim is death), and Muslims take such things very seriously.
Christians endure such nonsense much more passively, and likely that is what the Muslims found shocking.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
@Jazzhead
From the article, this is the text of the billboard:
"The all black billboard has a headline of "The Perfect Man." Underneath are six bullet points to describe that man. These points include "married a 6-year-old," "slave owner & dealer" and "13 wives, 11 at one time."
Mohammed isn't mentioned. So are you claiming that he was a pedophile who owned slaves and owned multiple wives?
If so, then maybe that kneejerk assumption qualifies as bigotry.
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Mohammed isn't mentioned. So are you claiming that he was a pedophile who owned slaves and owned multiple wives?
If so, then maybe that kneejerk assumption qualifies as bigotry.
Not bigotry, just knowledge of his history.
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Not bigotry, just knowledge of his history.
The very definition of bigotry these days.
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@Jazzhead
From the article, this is the text of the billboard:
"The all black billboard has a headline of "The Perfect Man." Underneath are six bullet points to describe that man. These points include "married a 6-year-old," "slave owner & dealer" and "13 wives, 11 at one time."
Mohammed isn't mentioned. So are you claiming that he was a pedophile who owned slaves and owned multiple wives?
If so, then maybe that kneejerk assumption qualifies as bigotry.
Surely you can't be that stupid.
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Surely you can't be that stupid.
@Jazzhead
I'm not, but that isn't an answer.
What made you look at "married a six year old" and "slave owner/dealer" and made you think it meant Mohammed?
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Surely you can't be that stupid.
@Jazzhead
@CatherineofAragon
If she is then I am also because I mentioned the same thing up-thread. Are the points on the billboard true about the things Mohammed did or not?
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Surely you can't be that stupid.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KM2K7sV-K74/hqdefault.jpg)
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Surely you can't be that stupid.
I agree with @CatherineofAragon .
Why did you make the assumption that the slave-owning pedophile on the poster was Mohammed if you aren't an anti-Muslim bigot like the rest of us?
Do you know the truth about Mohammed, or do you not? And if you DO know that the billboard was accurately describing him, how can it be bigotry to say what is true about him?
Methinks there's some conflict in your position, @Jazzhead . Your argument has been lost.
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Your argument has been lost.
...again.
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@Jazzhead
@CatherineofAragon
If she is then I am also because I mentioned the same thing up-thread. Are the points on the billboard true about the things Mohammed did or not?
The purpose of the billboard was to sow hatred and bigotry toward a religion. Not Islamofascism, which is dangerous and must be opposed with every fiber of our beings. But mainstream Islam, practiced by a billion and a half worldwide and whose adherents worship the same God as you and I do.
If you disagree that the intent behind that billboard isn't malicious, then you're a fool or willfully ignorant. The billboard is, as I noted up-thread, bigotry pure and simple. And it's being defended with bigoted statements by a number of the posters here. One, for example, labeled Muslims - not Islamofascists, but ordinary Muslims - as goatf**ckers.
That's sick and appalling. Why it's being tolerated by the mods is beyond my pay grade, but it makes this forum look awful.
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...again.
...still.
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I agree with @CatherineofAragon .
Why did you make the assumption that the slave-owning pedophile on the poster was Mohammed if you aren't an anti-Muslim bigot like the rest of us?
Do you know the truth about Mohammed, or do you not? And if you DO know that the billboard was accurately describing him, how can it be bigotry to say what is true about him?
Methinks there's some conflict in your position, @Jazzhead . Your argument has been lost.
Liberal ideas and policies are never sustainable. They just aren't. Look at what the LGBTQRSTUVWXYZ movement has done to the feminist movement.
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The purpose of the billboard was to sow hatred and bigotry toward a religion. Not Islamofascism, which is dangerous and must be opposed with every fiber of our beings. But mainstream Islam, practiced by a billion and a half worldwide and whose adherents worship the same God as you and I do.
That's sick and appalling. Why it's being tolerated by the mods is beyond my pay grade, but it makes this forum look awful.
Item 1: We do not worship the same God. You will get significant pushback from members of this forum if you insist on that fallacy.
Item 2: The Mods probably tolerate it for the similar post I made (that you requested) showing Muslims libeling Christians. Frankly, after having Mods already in here telling people to knock it off, I'm surprised this thread isn't locked by now.
Edited to add: That last sentence of your post exposes you as a "concern troll."
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Your argument has been lost.
What "argument"? You can't or won't see the bigotry behind this billboard, and to me it's as clear as the nose on your face.
It's your choice whether to defend the indefensible. It is your choice to diminish yourself.
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Item 1: We do not worship the same God. You will get significant pushback from members of this forum if you insist on that fallacy.
Item 2: The Mods probably tolerate it for the similar post I made (that you requested) showing Muslims libeling Christians. Frankly, after having Mods already in here telling people to knock it off, I'm surprised this thread isn't locked by now.
Edited to add: That last sentence of your post exposes you as a "concern troll."
Not for lack of "certain members" trying to get it locked down, IMHO.
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The purpose of the billboard was to sow hatred and bigotry toward a religion.
Historical facts "sow hatred and bigotry"?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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I agree with @CatherineofAragon .
Why did you make the assumption that the slave-owning pedophile on the poster was Mohammed if you aren't an anti-Muslim bigot like the rest of us?
Do you know the truth about Mohammed, or do you not? And if you DO know that the billboard was accurately describing him, how can it be bigotry to say what is true about him?
Methinks there's some conflict in your position, @Jazzhead . Your argument has been lost.
What has no doubt been lost on the poster in question here.... is the logic you presented him with. It just doesn't compute with folks like him.
888high58888
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Item 1: We do not worship the same God. You will get significant pushback from members of this forum if you insist on that fallacy.
Item 2: The Mods probably tolerate it for the similar post I made (that you requested) showing Muslims libeling Christians. Frankly, after having Mods already in here telling people to knock it off, I'm surprised this thread isn't locked by now.
Edited to add: That last sentence of your post exposes you as a "concern troll."
Of course the thread should be locked. It is harmful to the reputation of this board to tolerate this bigoted crap. I've moderated conservative boards before, and I would have shut down a thread like this long ago. Conservatives are simply too vulnerable to the charges of racism and bigotry - often unfairly stated by leftists who prefer to attack the messenger rather than the message. Here, the bigotry is absolutely plain to see and being tolerated. A responsible board shuts this crap down. At least that's my opinion.
The enemy is ISLAMOFASCISM - not my Muslim neighbors.
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Of course the thread should be locked. It is harmful to the reputation of this board to tolerate this bigoted crap. I've moderated conservative boards before, and I would have shut down a thread like this long ago. Conservatives are simply too vulnerable to the charges of racism and bigotry - often unfairly stated by leftists who prefer to attack the messenger rather than the message. Here, the bigotry is absolutely plain to see and being tolerated. A responsible board shuts this crap down. At least that's my opinion.
The enemy is ISLAMOFASCISM - not my Muslim neighbors.
@Jazzhead
What is bigoted about posting a historically accurate portrayal of big Mo? They worship the same prophet and use the same book and doctrine, right? What is bigoted about pointing that out. You have repeatedly deflected or ignored that question.
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The purpose of the billboard was to sow hatred and bigotry toward a religion. Not Islamofascism, which is dangerous and must be opposed with every fiber of our beings. But mainstream Islam, practiced by a billion and a half worldwide and whose adherents worship the same God as you and I do.
If you disagree that the intent behind that billboard isn't malicious, then you're a fool or willfully ignorant. The billboard is, as I noted up-thread, bigotry pure and simple. And it's being defended with bigoted statements by a number of the posters here. One, for example, labeled Muslims - not Islamofascists, but ordinary Muslims - as goatf**ckers.
That's sick and appalling. Why it's being tolerated by the mods is beyond my pay grade, but it makes this forum look awful.
@Jazzhead, what I'm asking (again) is why a billboard that mentions a guy who owned slaves and married a six year old made you think "that's Mohammed."
So far you haven't given an answer. Can you/will you?
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Trust me, your Muslim neighbors can handle the truth. They know the 411. That's why Iran allowed child marriages for years.
The truth is incapable of bigotry. You may disagree with it. You may disbelieve in it. But the truth is incapable of feelings like hate.
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What "argument"? You can't or won't see the bigotry behind this billboard, and to me it's as clear as the nose on your face.
It's your choice whether to defend the indefensible. It is your choice to diminish yourself.
@Jazzhead
Again, what is bigoted about it? You are diminishing your own argument with your refusal to address that most basic question.
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The purpose of the billboard was to sow hatred and bigotry toward a religion.
Good. I hope it does. Islam is a theocratic governing structure whose entire existence is there for the purpose of subjugation and terror. It is not compatible with liberty.
But mainstream Islam, practiced by a billion and a half worldwide and whose adherents worship the same God as you and I do.
That is an abject LIE, they do not. They worship a completely different god under an wholly different set of morals and beliefs.
The billboard is, as I noted up-thread, bigotry pure and simple. And it's being defended with bigoted statements by a number of the posters here.
So? What do you intend to do about it?
That's sick and appalling. Why it's being tolerated by the mods is beyond my pay grade, but it makes this forum look awful.
We do not care what you think.
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What has no doubt been lost on the poster in question here.... is the logic you presented him with. It just doesn't compute with folks like him.
888high58888
You will notice his great "concern" this thread makes TBR look bigoted. This is just a clever way to skirt the rules against calling everybody bigots.
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What "argument"? You can't or won't see the bigotry behind this billboard, and to me it's as clear as the nose on your face.
It's your choice whether to defend the indefensible. It is your choice to diminish yourself.
The points on the billboard simply list/highlight aspects of islam, per their own documents, leaders and teachings.
There is nothing bigoted, libelous or slanderous, since the defense is the truth.
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But mainstream Islam, practiced by a billion and a half worldwide and whose adherents worship the same God as you and I do.
Hardly.
I can't speak for anyone else, but they do not worship my God.
They do not worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
They do not worship Jesus Christ.
We have strayed so far from our foundation that many in our Republic believe a third-world, heathen, barbaric cult to be commensurate with Judaism and biblical Christianity.
Biblical ignorance and the lack of spiritual discernment renders us hamstrung in this fight against evil.
When we as a country see this cult for what it truly is, half of the battle will already be won.
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You will notice his great "concern" this thread makes TBR look bigoted. This is just a clever way to skirt the rules against calling everybody bigots.
As I have stated before.... getting threads like this one shut down is the only power these types of posters have towards censorship of those threads that make them look bad (either Muslims or the left). He just verified and admitted what I stated as accurate. I should probably thank him. ^-^
And yeah, he just basically called us all bigots.
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As I have stated before.... getting threads like this one shut down is the only power these types of posters have towards censorship of those threads that make them look bad (either Muslims or the left). He just verified and admitted what I stated as accurate. I should probably thank him. ^-^
And yeah, he just basically called us all bigots.
Exactly. Well said.
I chose not to play his game of playing defense on his charge we are all bigots.
Let him think we are, I frankly don't care what he thinks, or any Muslim who pines for a caliphate for that matter.
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A moderate Muslim is the one who holds your feet while the radical Muslim cuts off your head!
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@Jazzhead, what I'm asking (again) is why a billboard that mentions a guy who owned slaves and married a six year old made you think "that's Mohammed."
So far you haven't given an answer. Can you/will you?
Again - surely you're not that stupid. The intent of the billboard was to sow hatred of a religion. Do you deny it?
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The purpose of the billboard was to sow hatred and bigotry toward a religion. Not Islamofascism, which is dangerous and must be opposed with every fiber of our beings. But mainstream Islam, practiced by a billion and a half worldwide and whose adherents worship the same God as you and I do.
If you disagree that the intent behind that billboard isn't malicious, then you're a fool or willfully ignorant. The billboard is, as I noted up-thread, bigotry pure and simple. And it's being defended with bigoted statements by a number of the posters here. One, for example, labeled Muslims - not Islamofascists, but ordinary Muslims - as goatf**ckers.
That's sick and appalling. Why it's being tolerated by the mods is beyond my pay grade, but it makes this forum look awful.
The intent of the billboard is not my concern. Is the information correct or not? Since you have not answered several people asking if the billboard was true or not, I will take it that you concede that the billboard is true. This is not new information that anyone wanting to know couldn't go look it up if they wanted to. If the Muslims are outraged by true information about their religion perhaps they should re-examine their religion. It should make no difference whether it's on a billboard, a website or spoken by the average person on the street.
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The points on the billboard simply list/highlight aspects of islam, per their own documents, leaders and teachings.
There is nothing bigoted, libelous or slanderous, since the defense is the truth.
The intent of the billboard is to sow hatred of a religion.
The enemy is Islamofascism - who've killed far more Muslims than Christians.
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11513
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The intent of the billboard is not my concern.
The intent of the billboard is entirely my concern. Don't give me this lawyer crap. Do you deny that the intent of the billboard is to sow hatred of a religion?
You go ahead and defend this bigotry. Until I'm banned from the board, I will continue to speak out against it.
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The enemy is Islamofascism - who've killed far more Muslims than Christians.
See? They don't even like themselves, why should i like them? /s
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Again - surely you're not that stupid. The intent of the billboard was to sow hatred of a religion. Do you deny it?
Not real sure one could say that about you though. Point is..... what, exactly, that was stated on the billboard is untrue or a lie?
Why won't you address these pertinent questions posed to you?
What are you afraid of exposing here?
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The intent of the billboard is to sow hatred of a religion.
The enemy is Islamofascism - who've killed far more Muslims than Christians.
@Jazzhead
I can't determine the 'intent' of the billboard since its not on the billboard. Islamofacism is an enemy. I'd say that anyone who supports or tolerates Islamofacism is also the enemy.
Mainstream Islam as practiced by their prophet and his Lieutenants is indistinguishable from todays form of Islamofacism.
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What are you afraid of exposing here?
The truth.
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The truth.
Exactly.
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What "argument"? You can't or won't see the bigotry behind this billboard, and to me it's as clear as the nose on your face.
It's your choice whether to defend the indefensible. It is your choice to diminish yourself.
I do not diminish myself by stating the truth, and asking pertinent questions.
But what is "clear" to you is diminished by your distorted opinion about what is true and what is not.
It is not bigotry to acknowledge what is factual and indisputable.
Mohammed was a pedophile and a killer.
To say that making those statements makes ME a bigot reveals your diminished understanding of what is real and what is not.
btw, I hope you keep posting here, @Jazzhead. You consistently argue the leftist position on most subjects, and it is good practice for the rest of us to hone our debating skills on the distorted "can't we all get along?" PC perspective on matters of great importance, by countering your feelings with facts.
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The intent of the billboard is entirely my concern. Don't give me this lawyer crap. Do you deny that the intent of the billboard is to sow hatred of a religion?
You go ahead and defend this bigotry. Until I'm banned from the board, I will continue to speak out against it.
Since I had nothing to do with the billboard how could I guess what its intent was? Perhaps it was a message to practicing new practicing muslims or muslim-curious people that weren't aware of the beginnings of Islam to re-examine their religion. Perhaps it was meant to embarrass practicing Muslims and get them to re-examine their beliefs. Perhaps it was meant to get me all riled up against Muslims and go beat every one I come across. It matters not to me; I don't have control over other people's behavior and other people don't have control over mine.
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This is bigotry, pure and simple. How would Christians react to a billboard slandering the Prince of Peace?
I'd say they were kooks, and go on my merry way.
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Again - surely you're not that stupid. The intent of the billboard was to sow hatred of a religion. Do you deny it?
What you're basing that opinion on is your feeling about it, not your knowledge.
You have been asked many times what is untrue about the billboard and what makes those stating the truth bigots, and you refuse to answer.
Why?
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The intent of the billboard is entirely my concern.
The intent of the billboard is to present the truth - no matter how ugly and no matter how much you and Muslims hate the truth.
You go ahead and defend this bigotry. Until I'm banned from the board, I will continue to speak out against it.
That truth is stated to be bigotry by you, is cassus belli to continue to proclaim the evil that Islam in itself truly is.
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Again - surely you're not that stupid. The intent of the billboard was to sow hatred of a religion. Do you deny it?
And surely you're smart enough to answer a simple question.
What part of the facts stated on that billboard are false?
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The intent of the billboard is entirely my concern. Don't give me this lawyer crap. Do you deny that the intent of the billboard is to sow hatred of a religion?
You go ahead and defend this bigotry. Until I'm banned from the board, I will continue to speak out against it.
@Jazzhead
If a religion worships a man who did those things wouldn't it be worthy of hatred?
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If Jazzhead can think logically, he would put his greatest time and efforts into causing muslims to cease their violence and/or support of violence.
Trying to label good Americans as bigots, when so many terrorists murders continue in the name of islam, is ridiculous.
It is like blaming the victim, which liberals put forth. "If we just stop offending them, they will straighten up and stop terrorism."
Like it isn't the fault of the Quron, it is the fault of the infidels themselves, for speaking the truth about islam.
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I do not diminish myself by stating the truth, and asking pertinent questions.
But what is "clear" to you is diminished by your distorted opinion about what is true and what is not.
It is not bigotry to acknowledge what is factual and indisputable.
Mohammed was a pedophile and a killer.
To say that making those statements makes ME a bigot reveals your diminished understanding of what is real and what is not.
btw, I hope you keep posting here, @Jazzhead. You consistently argue the leftist position on most subjects, and it is good practice for the rest of us to hone our debating skills on the distorted "can't we all get along?" PC perspective on matters of great importance, by countering your feelings with facts.
That's gonna leave a mark.... :silly:
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The lib on this board is choking. Should we help him or just let nature take its course?
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The lib on this board is choking. Should we help him or just let nature take its course?
Perhaps someone should ask him why his great Muslim neighbor had to move here if Islam is so great?
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JazE is our very own real life version of Micheal Stivic. A meathead. Dead from the neck up.
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The explanation for the purpose of the billboard is really quite simple and not bigoted in any way.
It's a way to call out the Liberals and anyone else that defend Islam as the "religion of peace" despite the atrocities committed on a daily basis around the world in the name of Islam.
If the religion is so peaceful and on par with Christianity...how do you explain this...(insert list from billboard)
That's all it is and nothing more.
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Again - surely you're not that stupid. The intent of the billboard was to sow hatred of a religion. Do you deny it?
Dude...we have been fighting these people for almost a 1000 years. Do you know anything about history?
Are you familiar with their modern day systematic plan for our destruction?
http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/2013/06/03/muslim-behaviorterrorism-correlated-with-population-size/#.dpuf (http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/2013/06/03/muslim-behaviorterrorism-correlated-with-population-size/#.dpuf)
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A reminder. We still don't accept personal insults as legal tender for discussions. Stick to the topic, don't stick it to the poster. So far it has been pleasant seeing a thread go for 9 pages without devolving into an insultfest.
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If Jazzhead can think logically, he would put his greatest time and efforts into causing muslims to cease their violence and/or support of violence.
You might say, he'd have better luck trying to "persuade them" not to enslave and murder people? (This has been his constant argument against laws that prohibit abortion.)
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A reminder. We still don't accept personal insults as legal tender for discussions. Stick to the topic, don't stick it to the poster. So far it has been pleasant seeing a thread go for 9 pages without devolving into an insultfest.
@MOD4
Oh yeah?! Well your momma dresses you funny
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This is my opinion as a poster and not as a moderator.
I consider @Jazzhead to be an important and valuable member of this forum and I highly respect his opinions.
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Dude...we have been fighting these people for almost a 1000 years. Do you know anything about history?
Are you familiar with their modern day systematic plan for our destruction?
http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/2013/06/03/muslim-behaviorterrorism-correlated-with-population-size/#.dpuf (http://www.commonsenseevaluation.com/2013/06/03/muslim-behaviorterrorism-correlated-with-population-size/#.dpuf)
@catfish1957
Not to quibble but we've been fighting them for about 1400 years. Pretty much once he changed tactics to use rape, murder and destruction as preferred methods of evangelism.
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Again - surely you're not that stupid. The intent of the billboard was to sow hatred of a religion. Do you deny it?
@Jazzhead
So, you're going to avoid my question yet again.
I think I have the answer, though.
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This is my opinion as a poster and not as a moderator.
I consider @Jazzhead to be an important and valuable member of this forum and I highly respect his opinions.
And I respect your right to hold that opinion which I do not share!
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Perhaps someone should ask him why his great Muslim neighbor had to move here if Islam is so great?
BAM!
Has anyone noticed the hordes of oppressed refugees desperate to enter Muslim countries?
:whistle:
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BAM!
Has anyone noticed the hordes of oppressed refugees desperate to enter Muslim countries?
:whistle:
Yes. I've spent time in refugee camps in Jordan.
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Yes. I've spent time in refugee camps in Jordan.
Do they want to stay in Jordan?
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Yes. I've spent time in refugee camps in Jordan.
I looked at a map of the ME, and IIRC, there are over 7 million refugees in Muslim countries.
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@MOD4
Oh yeah?! Well your momma dresses you funny
And you went to Wake Forest
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I looked at a map of the ME, and IIRC, there are over 7 million refugees in Muslim countries.
And what or who are they running from exactly?
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@catfish1957
Not to quibble but we've been fighting them for about 1400 years. Pretty much once he changed tactics to use rape, murder and destruction as preferred methods of evangelism.
Question of semantics I guess. From a military perspective, Urban II's 1095 call to action was the first shot.
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The purpose of the billboard was to sow hatred and bigotry toward a religion. Not Islamofascism, which is dangerous and must be opposed with every fiber of our beings. But mainstream Islam, practiced by a billion and a half worldwide and whose adherents worship the same God as you and I do.
If you disagree that the intent behind that billboard isn't malicious, then you're a fool or willfully ignorant. The billboard is, as I noted up-thread, bigotry pure and simple. And it's being defended with bigoted statements by a number of the posters here. One, for example, labeled Muslims - not Islamofascists, but ordinary Muslims - as goatf**ckers.
That's sick and appalling. Why it's being tolerated by the mods is beyond my pay grade, but it makes this forum look awful.
Why are you refusing to answer what is a pretty simple question?
And if TBR is so appalling to you, why are you still here?
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Do they want to stay in Jordan?
Some do. Most want to go home once they know they're not going to get shot at.
Which is the difference between Jordan and the USA (or Europe for that matter). Jordan keeps the refugees seperate.
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A moderate Muslim is the one who holds your feet while the radical Muslim cuts off your head!
I strongly disagree. Moderate Muslims in the US have nothing to do with radical Islam.
Why don't more of them speak out? They're afraid of being killed by radical Muslims.
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I strongly disagree. Moderate Muslims in the US have nothing to do with radical Islam.
Why don't more of them speak out? They're afraid of being killed by radical Muslims.
Which makes them complicit with their head chopping brethren.
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I strongly disagree. Moderate Muslims in the US have nothing to do with radical Islam.
Why don't more of them speak out? They're afraid of being killed by radical Muslims.
The lack of outcry by so called moderates on 9-12 will never be forgotten.
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I strongly disagree. Moderate Muslims in the US have nothing to do with radical Islam.
Why don't more of them speak out? They're afraid of being killed by radical Muslims.
Their book itself FORBIDS their doing so!
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I strongly disagree. Moderate Muslims in the US have nothing to do with radical Islam.
Why don't more of them speak out? They're afraid of being killed by radical Muslims.
That is very true, to a point. But are moderate Muslims in the US afraid of radical Muslims attacking them in the US?
And, at a certain point, one has to stand up for what's right, even at personal risk, or else one becomes complicit. Moderate Muslims are at that juncture now. If they don't start speaking up, they will have justified those who seek to hold them responsible for what the radicals do.
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Why are you refusing to answer what is a pretty simple question?
And if TBR is so appalling to you, why are you still here?
That answer is obvious to anyone who has been here for any length of time.
The posting history showcases jumping upon every single opportunity to bash Christianity and Christians on this forum while playing apologist for everything that attacks or condemns it.
The visceral hatred of biblical Christians is always made manifest.
Is it any wonder why we read the responses that we do?
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I strongly disagree. Moderate Muslims in the US have nothing to do with radical Islam.
Why don't more of them speak out? They're afraid of being killed by radical Muslims.
They do. Idiots immediately say Taqiyya then carry on as normal.
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Question of semantics I guess. From a military perspective, Urban II's 1095 call to action was the first shot.
@catfish1957
Mighty Mo didn't have any luck spreading his newfound religion the peaceful way. He only had about 15 followers. Then he started raping, murdering and so forth. Thats when I count because that is when he began to war against non-believers.
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They do. Idiots immediately say Taqiyya then carry on as normal.
@EC
Very very very few of them speak out. How many speak out against the radicalization happening in the mosques?
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And what or who are they running from exactly?
A sect of their religion intent on killing them for being adherents to the wrong sect.
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And what or who are they running from exactly?
My bet is.... they are running away from the Religion of Pieces.
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@EC
Very very very few of them speak out. How many speak out against the radicalization happening in the mosques?
You know that most of the radicals get put on the radar after being reported by members of their own mosques, right?
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@EC
Very very very few of them speak out. How many speak out against the radicalization happening in the mosques?
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, quite a few recent acts of terror in both the US and the UK were committed by people that authorities DID have on their watch lists.
The most recent UK attack included at least one terrorist, that HAD BEEN reported by a muslim neighbor.
Is a British muslim citizen to risk being ignored by authorities, and fear recriminations from fellow muslims if he is found out?
The solution for the problem I pose, is for authorities to impose greater consequences, as Teresa May suggests.
Like it or not the time for internment or equivalents is near.
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Yes. I've spent time in refugee camps in Jordan.
Really, @EC?
You must have had an interesting, adventurous life.
What were these refugees fleeing, if you don't mind my asking?
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@catfish1957
Mighty Mo didn't have any luck spreading his newfound religion the peaceful way. He only had about 15 followers. Then he started raping, murdering and so forth. Thats when I count because that is when he began to war against non-believers.
And, he started gathering converts, and in those who were attracted to that kind of activity.
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You know that most of the radicals get put on the radar after being reported by members of their own mosques, right?
Sadly "put on the radar" is a record keeping exercise, not a confinement exercize.
On both sides of the Atlantic.
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You know that most of the radicals get put on the radar after being reported by members of their own mosques, right?
@EC
Yeah ok, and?
Does that change anything? Do they ever stand up and tell the Imam, "NO, FGM is wrong." "No, we do not need to kill non-believers!"
All I ever hear is crickets and a reminder about how peaceful they are. Thats right after I hear 40% of them support sharia in the United States.
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A sect of their religion intent on killing them for being adherents to the wrong sect.
Yep! Other Muslims!
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You know that most of the radicals get put on the radar after being reported by members of their own mosques, right?
Playing devil's advocate for a moment, quite a few recent acts of terror in both the US and the UK were committed by people that authorities DID have on their watch lists.
The most recent UK attack included at least one terrorist, that HAD BEEN reported by a muslim neighbor.
Is a British muslim citizen to risk being ignored by authorities, and fear recriminations from fellow muslims if he is found out?
The solution for the problem I pose, is for authorities to impose greater consequences, as Teresa May suggests.
Like it or not the time for internment or equivalents is near.
You guys are quite correct. The largest breakdown has been the fact that governments on both sides of the pond failed to act on information once received. The Boston Marathon bombing was famous that way, because Ohaha refused to act on the intel from Chechnya.
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Playing devil's advocate for a moment, quite a few recent acts of terror in both the US and the UK were committed by people that authorities DID have on their watch lists.
The most recent UK attack included at least one terrorist, that HAD BEEN reported by a muslim neighbor.
Is a British muslim citizen to risk being ignored by authorities, and fear recriminations from fellow muslims if he is found out?
The solution for the problem I pose, is for authorities to impose greater consequences, as Teresa May suggests.
Like it or not the time for internment or equivalents is near.
Makes sense to me. Plenty of mainstream Muslims drop dime on the Islamofascists. But if the government drops the ball . . .
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Really, @EC?
You must have had an interesting, adventurous life.
What were these refugees fleeing, if you don't mind my asking?
The war in Syria. There's a thread around here somewhere about it.
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This is my opinion as a poster and not as a moderator.
I consider @Jazzhead to be an important and valuable member of this forum and I highly respect his opinions.
Thanks, Machie - I appreciate it! And that respect is mutual - you're a tremendous asset to TBR (and I know how tough it is to be a fair and impartial mod).
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You guys are quite correct. The largest breakdown has been the fact that governments on both sides of the pond failed to act on information once received. The Boston Marathon bombing was famous that way, because Ohaha refused to act on the intel from Chechnya.
@Cyber Liberty
And why do the law enforcement agencies do nothing? Because the politically powerful will call them bigots and fire them. Its a political problem, not a law enforcement problem. It certainly isn't because we have too many freedoms or aren't monitored enough.
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You know that most of the radicals get put on the radar after being reported by members of their own mosques, right?
I also know that many good people have been "put on the radar" by lying radical ba$bleep as well!
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@Cyber Liberty
And why do the law enforcement agencies do nothing? Because the politically powerful will call them bigots and fire them. Its a political problem, not a law enforcement problem. It certainly isn't because we have too many freedoms or aren't monitored enough.
Got to wonder at what point we finally decide that PC will be the death of us? Michigan becomes an Islamic state?
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Makes sense to me. Plenty of mainstream Muslims drop dime on the Islamofascists. But if the government drops the ball . . .
You are correct, Sir! And this is why it was important to not allow Ohaha to have a third term through Hillary Clinton. We'd still be wringing our hands. I'm hoping for better.
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I strongly disagree. Moderate Muslims in the US have nothing to do with radical Islam.
Why don't more of them speak out? They're afraid of being killed by radical Muslims.
That would be due to the fact that the central tenet of Islam is to subjugate the entire world, via force, via slavery or by the sword. It is not a faith that believes in persuasion by example. It believes in coercion to the faith and is militant the moment the believers are in signifiant enough numbers to begin imposing their faith on the people around them. The Quran makes those mandates clear and any true Muslim understands those tenets.
They are simply wise enough to know that in places they are a significant minority, to lay low and create the image that their faith is benign while they outbreed their native hosts a dozen to one.
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Got to wonder at what point we finally decide that PC will be the death of us? Michigan becomes an Islamic state?
For example pointing out the accurate history of Mohammed is considered being a bigot.
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@Cyber Liberty
And why do the law enforcement agencies do nothing? Because the politically powerful will call them bigots and fire them. Its a political problem, not a law enforcement problem. It certainly isn't because we have too many freedoms or aren't monitored enough.
I have heard authorities from the US and the UK, claim they lack the manpower to surveil suspects.
It takes several people, working 8 hour shifts, 24-7, to surveil one person.
So every time an Abdul or an Omar is turned in, police would allocate say 8-12 people to that one.
The UK has 23,000 suspects. They don't have enough police and security forces.
Alternatives include 1. deporting them, 2. locking them up, 3. killing them, or 4. doing nothing beyond listing them.
Option #4 is currently in operation. Manchester, London, Orlando, Ft. Hood, Boston, San Bernardino, etc. are the price paid.
Price is paid by ordinary folks going about their lives. The alternative is to quit politically correct speech, credit to Trump for this.
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That would be due to the fact that the central tenet of Islam is to subjugate the entire world, via force, via slavery or by the sword. It is not a faith that believes in persuasion by example. It believes in coercion to the faith and is militant the moment the believers are in signifiant enough numbers to begin imposing their faith on the people around them. The Quran makes those mandates clear and any true Muslim understands those tenets.
They are simply wise enough to know that in places they are a significant minority, to lay low and create the image that their faith is benign while they outbreed their native hosts a dozen to one.
And why wouldn't they? They treat their women as nothing more than breeding stock and worse than they treat their animals.
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Sadly "put on the radar" is a record keeping exercise, not a confinement exercize.
On both sides of the Atlantic.
These days we can't even infiltrate or surveil the Mosques anymore. CAIR has/had some real undue influence over the FBI and their practices under Obama.
The very people we expect to stop these attacks and find these terrorists are hog tied by political correctness.
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@Cyber Liberty
And why do the law enforcement agencies do nothing? Because the politically powerful will call them bigots and fire them. Its a political problem, not a law enforcement problem. It certainly isn't because we have too many freedoms or aren't monitored enough.
And we have people seeing bigotry behind all attempts to warn the people. Cough, cough.
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For example pointing out the accurate history of Mohammed is considered being a bigot.
@driftdiver
It's a tough old world.
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So far it has been pleasant seeing a thread go for 9 pages without devolving into an insultfest.
Well, threads generally follow the direction of the OP.
When the OP is the most kind-hearted, considerate, open minded, warmest, most wonderful poster you've met your life, the thread will follow suit.
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Well, threads generally follow the direction of the OP.
When the OP is the most kind-hearted, considerate, open minded, warmest, most wonderful poster you've met your life, the thread will follow suit.
:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
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Their book itself FORBIDS their doing so!
Muslims largely don't read the Koran. It is read to them and they repeat verses.
Our local Muslim leader was surprised to see so many Christians doing Bible Studies. He also was unaware that churches are busy outside of the Sabbath.
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That would be due to the fact that the central tenet of Islam is to subjugate the entire world, via force, via slavery or by the sword.
Perhaps but they can't even get along with each other. How will they take over the world when they are so busy killing each other?
During WW1, the Ottomans asked the Brits for a cease fire in Iraq so they could both eradicate the local Arab (Muslim) population because the locals were torturing and killing the wounded of both sides. The Brits turned them down.
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Perhaps but they can't even get along with each other. How will they take over the world when they are so busy killing each other?
During WW1, the Ottomans asked the Brits for a cease fire in Iraq so they could both eradicate the local Arab (Muslim) population because the locals were torturing and killing the wounded of both sides. The Brits turned them down.
@Restored
Why don't you ask the Christians who used to be in Iraq. Or the Christians in Nigeria. Or heck maybe the Hindu's in India.
Those that the muslims haven't killed of course.
To minimize the threat that 300 million people who would sacrifice their child to kill an American is not wise.
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There are still Christians in Iraq but Iraq is a war zone. Everyone is getting out.
There are still a few Hindus in India.
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@Restored
Why don't you ask the Christians who used to be in Iraq. Or the Christians in Nigeria. Or heck maybe the Hindu's in India.
Those that the muslims haven't killed of course.
To minimize the threat that 300 million people who would sacrifice their child to kill an American is not wise.
Uh, yeah. They may not be able to close the deal on the "ruling the world" thing, but they can sure kill millions, if not billions of people playing Pinky and the Brain.
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Perhaps but they can't even get along with each other. How will they take over the world when they are so busy killing each other?
Iron and clay mixed. But it always comes together under a Caliphate.
There are still Christians in Iraq but Iraq is a war zone. Everyone is getting out.
There are still a few Hindus in India.
Over a billion Hindus in India. They just surpassed China in population on less than half the land mass.
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Iron and clay mixed. But it always comes together under a Caliphate.
Over a billion Hindus in India. They just surpassed China in population on less than half the land mass.
They are just under 80% of the 1.2 Billion people in India, according to 2011 Census data.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/hindus-drop-80-percent-india-population-muslims-census-150826052655585.html
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Uh, yeah. They may not be able to close the deal on the "ruling the world" thing, but they can sure kill millions, if not billions of people playing Pinky and the Brain.
Ah, a cartoon scholar who knows about Pinky and the Brain! I'm among friends! :beer:
@Cyber Liberty
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Ah, a cartoon scholar who knows about Pinky and the Brain! I'm among friends! :beer:
@Cyber Liberty
@musiclady
Didja hear?? Warner Bros is bringing back Animaniacs! I wonder if P&B are going to be part of it?
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There are still Christians in Iraq but Iraq is a war zone. Everyone is getting out.
There are still a few Hindus in India.
@Restored
There are a lot fewer Christians in Iraq today then there were following the fall of Saddam. Why? Because of the muslim fanatics who killed them and destroyed their churches. Churches which had been there since the time of Christ.
Invading Muslims killed in excess of 100 million Hindus in India between 1000 AD and 1500AD. (some estimates put the number at 400M Hindus)
You've heard of the barbary pirates right? Muslims who took several million Europeans as slaves to be tortured, murdered, raped and/or sold as slaves.
The marine hymn "shores of Tripoli" involved military action against Muslims to rescue American captives.
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They are just under 80% of the 1.2 Billion people in India, according to 2011 Census data.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/hindus-drop-80-percent-india-population-muslims-census-150826052655585.html
83% Hindu, 13% Muslim, Less than 2% Christian, the rest are Sikhs by Indian State numbers.
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@musiclady
Didja hear?? Warner Bros is bringing back Animaniacs! I wonder if P&B are going to be part of it?
Oh, I HOPE so! But even if not, Yakko, Wakko and Dot will bring my heart joy! ^-^
(Is this on topic?? Just wondering..... :dx1:)
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@musiclady
Didja hear?? Warner Bros is bringing back Animaniacs! I wonder if P&B are going to be part of it?
They better be!
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Didja hear?? Warner Bros is bringing back Animaniacs! I wonder if P&B are going to be part of it?
I used to love Pinky and the Brain! I don't have a functioning DVD player anymore, but back in the day I remember Mrs. Jazz got me a boxed set of their mis-adventures as a Christmas gift.
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83% Hindu, 13% Muslim, Less than 2% Christian, the rest are Sikhs by Indian State numbers.
Yeah, I agree the numbers are likely to be crude, and the source I posted was Al Jazeera. :shrug: Probably way different from 5-6 years ago. The trend in the story was Hindus down, Muslims up, but that could be a slant in the story.
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"What're we gonna do tonight, Mohammad?"
"Same thing we do every night, Achmed...try to take over the world!"
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Wingnut wrote:
"JazE is our very own real life version of Micheal Stivic. A meathead. Dead from the neck up."
No.
He is an agent provocateur. There have been others of that same bent here before.
I wonder whose payroll he's on?
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You know that most of the radicals get put on the radar after being reported by members of their own mosques, right?
Unfortunately (and admittedly not being aware of the ones who are rounded up before pulling some crap) they manage to pull some act of destruction anyway, even while on the radar.
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You guys are quite correct. The largest breakdown has been the fact that governments on both sides of the pond failed to act on information once received. The Boston Marathon bombing was famous that way, because Ohaha refused to act on the intel from Chechnya.
It's tradition! Had LEOs and intelligence been more coordinated, even the 9/11 hijackers should have been interdicted.
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Which makes them complicit with their head chopping brethren.
Absolutely.
Still awaiting that billboard sponsored by a Muslim group that denounces Islam-terrorism.
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"What're we gonna do tonight, Mohammad?"
"Same thing we do every night, Achmed...try to take over the world!"
:silly: :silly:
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"What're we gonna do tonight, Mohammad?"
"Same thing we do every night, Achmed...try to take over the world!"
:beer: Good one, CL!
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:beer: Good one, CL!
Thanks! :beer: