The Briefing Room
Exclusive Content => Editorials => Topic started by: StrangerInAStrangeLand on November 11, 2016, 12:31:38 am
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I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?
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:shrug:
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That's not a winning endorsement. :)
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:shrug:
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That's why I didn't vote for him.
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I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?
I didn't. But if this is a serious question, it's a simple answer. The Democrat Special Snowflakes are so disconnected from their ivory tower thinking that they forgot that they are in America and not Utopia. Their pie in the skyism was pushed far beyond tolerance in every aspect of their agenda. People hit the BS saturation point and took a dump.
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It's indeed a serious question. Can you explain a democratic policy that was "ivory tower"? I get that they're idealists, but they at least set out policies with some explanation. Obviously there was more explanation needed for most of them, but that's a start. I'd like to have a real discussion beyond "liberal v conservative". Any detail you can provide is appreciated.
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I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?
Many people voted for him because the alternative was unthinkable. Plus, THE WALL. :silly:
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It's indeed a serious question. Can you explain a democratic policy that was "ivory tower"? I get that they're idealists, but they at least set out policies with some explanation. Obviously there was more explanation needed for most of them, but that's a start. I'd like to have a real discussion beyond "liberal v conservative". Any detail you can provide is appreciated.
All of it. They are completely backwards or simply wrong on everything. America isn't a social experiment. It's a country. They chose to FORCE their worldview on people that oppose it. The people rejected it.
Most of the country disagrees with Democrats. It's no deeper than that ultimately. they do not want to be Europe 2. They want to be America 1.
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Realistically, how is Hillary unthinkable? Is she more unthinkable than Bill Clinton or Obama? More unthinkable than two Bushes? It seems like she's just another politician.
And the wall - seriously, does anyone believe that would work? Because we've already got one, and it's pretty worthless.
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I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?
Trump was able to hold up a mirror and convince people he would give them whatever they wanted, be it jobs in steel and coal country, the oil patch, manufacturing, ranching, or building wall, whatever...much as Obama did in 2008.
Washington has been so dysfunctional for so long that many will take a gamble on anyone offering that "Hope and Change" thingy.. :shrug:
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All of it. They are completely backwards or simply wrong on everything. America isn't a social experiment. It's a country. They chose to FORCE their worldview on people that oppose it. The people rejected it.
Most of the country disagrees with Democrats. It's no deeper than that ultimately. they do not want to be Europe 2. They want to be America 1.
You're objectively wrong. The popular vote went to Hillary - more than half of the country did not disagree with the Democrats. So - what is a policy on which the Democrats are wrong?
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I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?
He's a sexy sexy man....
(https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_908w/2010-2019/Wires/Images/2015-08-01/AP/Britain_Womens_Golf_Open-00836.jpg)
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He's a sexy sexy man....
(https://img.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_908w/2010-2019/Wires/Images/2015-08-01/AP/Britain_Womens_Golf_Open-00836.jpg)
I'd hit that!
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I'd hit that!
(http://leanblitzconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/baseball-bat.jpg)
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BTHOOM!
(Beats The Hell Out Of Me - work with me people, I'm trying to start a new internet acronym.)
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(http://leanblitzconsulting.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/baseball-bat.jpg)
(https://image.freepik.com/free-photo/nine-iron-1_2931324.jpg)
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Trump was able to hold up a mirror and convince people he would give them whatever they wanted, be it jobs in steel and coal country, the oil patch, manufacturing, ranching, or building wall, whatever...much as Obama did in 2008.
Washington has been so dysfunctional for so long that many will take a gamble on anyone offering that "Hope and Change" thingy.. :shrug:
That's my problem with it - his only policy seems to be "Hope and Change", or maybe "Hate and Change". I generally feel that Democrats and Republicans are more like each other than they are like me, but at the end of the day, we're all Americans, and we all live together. And we all seem to be much more like each other than we are like Trump. It seems too easy to just say "people are dumb". I'm assuming I must have missed something that redeems him.
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(https://image.freepik.com/free-photo/nine-iron-1_2931324.jpg)
Hey @Wingnut how can you moderate the forum riding around on a bike?
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Realistically, how is Hillary unthinkable? Is she more unthinkable than Bill Clinton or Obama? More unthinkable than two Bushes? It seems like she's just another politician.
And the wall - seriously, does anyone believe that would work? Because we've already got one, and it's pretty worthless.
Yes, she was more unthinkable than her husband, Chester the Molester Bill, and certainly the Bushes. Obama has been 8 years of horror. Conservatives knew the Courts would be further destroyed if something wasn't done to stop it, thus they put their faith in tRump. They knew for a fact that's what woud happen if the Beast won.
Besides, tRump didn't so much win as she lost. Your people didn't come out to vote for her. You just need to look at the numbers from 2012. Maybe you should be asking liberals why they didn't vote for her. In the end, he's not her and that is a very good thing. :dx1:
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What's his appeal...he's a cutie patootie and he is rich..that's all I need to vote for him.
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Hey @Wingnut how can you moderate the forum riding around on a bike?
I pedal fast!
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That's my problem with it - his only policy seems to be "Hope and Change", or maybe "Hate and Change". I generally feel that Democrats and Republicans are more like each other than they are like me, but at the end of the day, we're all Americans, and we all live together. And we all seem to be much more like each other than we are like Trump. It seems too easy to just say "people are dumb". I'm assuming I must have missed something that redeems him.
There is an old George Carlin bit about IQ's as I recall, its probably on uTube pretty much sums it up in my opinion..
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BTHOOM!
(Beats The Hell Out Of Me - work with me people, I'm trying to start a new internet acronym.)
IWIICBITNOWUWTHIGO (I would if I could but I think no one will understand what the hell is going on.)
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What's his appeal...he's a cutie patootie and he is rich..that's all I need to vote for him.
So am I. Shoulda voted for me.
Well, OK I'm stunningly handsome and rich is spirit.
Not buying that either huh?...
My feet don't stink! Thats gotta count for something!!!!
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You're objectively wrong. The popular vote went to Hillary - more than half of the country did not disagree with the Democrats. So - what is a policy on which the Democrats are wrong?
The popular vote may have gone to Hillary, but that's because the losers and liberals in California and New York continue to vote for people who are harmful to this country. Fortunately, the states that counted decided to wake up to what was happening and put a stop to it. At least for now.
Democrats are wrong on all policies. Hard to pick just one.
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Yes, she was more unthinkable than her husband, Chester the Molester Bill, and certainly the Bushes. Obama has been 8 years of horror. Conservatives knew the Courts would be further destroyed if something wasn't done to stop it, thus they put their faith in tRump. They knew for a fact that's what woud happen if the Beast won.
Besides, tRump didn't so much win as she lost. Your people didn't come out to vote for her. You just need to look at the numbers from 2012. Maybe you should be asking liberals why they didn't vote for her. In the end, he's not her and that is a very good thing. :dx1:
Democrats did vote for her, but most Democrat votes have less electoral value than Republican votes. For instance, California has 70 times the population of Wyoming, but only 18 times the electoral votes. Therefore, every Wyomingite has 3.9 times the representation that a Californian has. I've lived in both places, and loved them both, but that's pretty silly. Representational differences, coupled with the consistent trends in political leanings and redistricting over the last 20 years, are what got Trump elected.
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I'm not sure if I'm responding to this just for the potential popcorn value or if I actually want to attempt an explanation... :facepalm2:
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So am I. Shoulda voted for me.
Well, OK I'm stunningly handsome and rich is spirit.
Not buying that either huh?...
My feet don't stink! Thats gotta count for something!!!!
Handsome..huh!...you gotta have big bucks...sorry you lost my vote.....hehehe
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The popular vote may have gone to Hillary, but that's because the losers and liberals in California and New York continue to vote for people who are harmful to this country. Fortunately, the states that counted decided to wake up to what was happening and put a stop to it. At least for now.
Democrats are wrong on all policies. Hard to pick just one.
"Wrong on all policies" has no value in a real discussion. You can pick more than one, though. :) I'm just looking for a real answer.
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I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?
I think Trump's main appeal is not so much Trump the man, but rather that he represents a thumb in the eye to the amorphous "they" who, in ways big and small, foist frustration, joblessness, and are generally above the law and unaccountable. Trump stood as the only argument available to people who cannot seem to get traction for their concerns.
Trump's success in this election is in large part due to his willingness to recognize and speak out about the things that matter to a lot of normal people. (Whether he means it is a different question.)
Moreover, Hillary Clinton's ability to get away with breaking laws, as she obviously did; and connivance of the DOJ and others in getting her off the hook; those things amplified the frustration and gave Trump additional credibility.
It doesn't change how people think about him -- sexist, boorish, unfit -- but the opportunity to make a statement against the corrupt status quo outweighed it.
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IWIICBITNOWUWTHIGO (I would if I could but I think no one will understand what the hell is going on.)
WTAHOAWTPOMP (Well that's a hell of a way to piss on my parade.)
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I think Trump's main appeal is not so much Trump the man, but rather that he represents a thumb in the eye to the amorphous "they" who, in ways big and small, foist frustration, joblessness, and are generally above the law and unaccountable. Trump stood as the only argument available to people who cannot seem to get traction for their concerns.
Trump's success in this election is in large part due to his willingness to recognize and speak out about the things that matter to a lot of normal people. (Whether he means it is a different question.)
Moreover, Hillary Clinton's ability to get away with breaking laws, as she obviously did; and connivance of the DOJ and others in getting her off the hook; those things amplified the frustration and gave Trump additional credibility.
It doesn't change how people think about him -- sexist, boorish, unfit -- but the opportunity to make a statement against the corrupt status quo outweighed it.
I'm not expecting to like him. What is a thing that "matters to a lot of people" that Trump spoke out about? What is something that resonated with you?
I'm all for a middle finger to the establishment, I just don't see how he accomplishes that. It seems like he's more likely to be the establishment giving us the middle finger back.
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You're objectively wrong. The popular vote went to Hillary - more than half of the country did not disagree with the Democrats. So - what is a policy on which the Democrats are wrong?
20 trillion in debt. Obamacare. Energy and land use
If you want to get semantical with vote totals, add in non Democrat numbers for Johnson, Stein, McMullin and writeins. Yes, half the country rejected Democrats. the consistent trend of Republicans gaining the house and senate both, massive increases in state govt seats by non Dem candidates (and not just GOP) all point to the rejection of Democrats. The rise of the TEA party went as far as to reject liberal republicans within the GOP.
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Handsome..huh!...you gotta have big bucks...sorry you lost my vote.....hehehe
Then suffer with TRUMPIAN TOE ODOR!!!!!!!!!
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I'm not expecting to like him. What is a thing that "matters to a lot of people" that Trump spoke out about? What is something that resonated with you?
I'm sorry, but you, sir, sound like a troll. Or a 'bot.
If "the establishment in DC is corrupt and Hillary Clinton is its avatar" isn't good enough for you, then nothing will work.
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I'm not expecting to like him. What is a thing that "matters to a lot of people" that Trump spoke out about? What is something that resonated with you?
What..are you writing an article..sure sounds like it!
I don't allow Libs at TBR...
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"Wrong on all policies" has no value in a real discussion.
It does if you find Hitlary a full out piece of corrupt shit.
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"Wrong on all policies" has no value in a real discussion. You can pick more than one, though. :) I'm just looking for a real answer.
No, they didn't turn out for her. If liberals were really interested in electing the first woman president, they would have turned out in the same numbers they did for Obama. They didn't. I guess that means they're sexist.
If the Donald just gets rid of Obama care he will be a better President than Obama. If he puts constitutional Judges on the Courts, he will be a better President than Obama. Conservatives are tired of liberals making laws from the bench. :nono:
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Then suffer with TRUMPIAN TOE ODOR!!!!!!!!!
For a no limit credit card I will suffer!
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What..are you writing an article..sure sounds like it!
I don't allow Libs at TBR...
Glad you said it because I also smell a reject from the newly defunct DU is trolling us.
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20 trillion in debt. Obamacare. Energy and land use
If you want to get semantical with vote totals, add in non Democrat numbers for Johnson, Stein, McMullin and writeins. Yes, half the country rejected Democrats. the consistent trend of Republicans gaining the house and senate both, massive increases in state govt seats by non Dem candidates (and not just GOP) all point to the rejection of Democrats. The rise of the TEA party went as far as to reject liberal republicans within the GOP.
If we want to be semantic, half the country didn't even vote. But no, I don't really care about the vote totals and political trending, as that's a systemic issue and a discussion for another day. I'm really just looking for a way that I can relate to him - I've tried, and come up empty handed.
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Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse.
I've read most of what those two wrote, and I don't remember them being big fans of government interference in the economy. Quite the opposite in fact (and by opposite, I don't mean that they were fans of "supply side economics", which while being vastly superior to "demand side economics" still suffers from the fatally flawed assumption that the government should "do something" to stimulate the economy).
I'd suggest a visit to the library section at mises.org.
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For a no limit credit card I will suffer!
Pretty kinky! If you and Donald want to play 'This little piggy' in the privacy of Trump Tower, who am I to judge?
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Democrats did vote for her, but most Democrat votes have less electoral value than Republican votes. For instance, California has 70 times the population of Wyoming, but only 18 times the electoral votes. Therefore, every Wyomingite has 3.9 times the representation that a Californian has. I've lived in both places, and loved them both, but that's pretty silly. Representational differences, coupled with the consistent trends in political leanings and redistricting over the last 20 years, are what got Trump elected.
Good grief a Californian :laugh:
If you thought Wyoming was balmy in the winter you never never want to come to Montana it gets down right nippy here..
BTW American elections are decided by the vote in the electoral college not the popular vote. That core Constitutional principle that has made the good old USA the oldest surviving Republic in the world.
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Glad you said it because I also smell a reject from the newly defunct DU is trolling us.
Yah think..
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If we want to be semantic, half the country didn't even vote. But no, I don't really care about the vote totals and political trending, as that's a systemic issue and a discussion for another day. I'm really just looking for a way that I can relate to him - I've tried, and come up empty handed.
Well, if you're looking for a reason to like the guy, then this probably isn't your best place to look -- a lot of us, even those who voted for him, don't think all that highly of him.
The answer for why he won, is mainly that he represents the old thumb in the eye to Hillary Clinton, and through her the whole smug and lawless bunch, and what they stand for.
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(https://media.files.today.ng/main/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Ayodele-Fayose.jpg)
I think it is this.
(http://media.salon.com/2014/08/ronald_reagan3.jpg)
(http://eskipaper.com/images/margaret-thatcher-7.jpg)
(http://dlewis.net/nik-archives/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/abraham_lincoln.jpg)
(http://www-tc.pbs.org/wnet/secrets/files/2010/05/SF24372.jpg)
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/jfk.gif?w=780)
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I've read most of what those two wrote, and I don't remember them being big fans of government interference in the economy. Quite the opposite in fact (and by opposite, I don't mean that they were fans of "supply side economics", which while being vastly superior to "demand side economics" still suffers from the fatally flawed assumption that the government should "do something" to stimulate the economy).
I'd suggest a visit to the library section at mises.org.
Demand side economics is specifically in reference to the government leaving it alone, eg, Laissez Faire. The most appropriate way to drive the economy is to give money back to people and let them spend it where they choose, not to give it to suppliers, who have no further incentive to reinvest it in the economy.
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If we want to be semantic, half the country didn't even vote. But no, I don't really care about the vote totals and political trending, as that's a systemic issue and a discussion for another day. I'm really just looking for a way that I can relate to him - I've tried, and come up empty handed.
The vote totals are all that matters when raw numbers are the issue and people not voting obviously don't care one way or the other. As far as relating to the guy, I'm the wrong person to ask. But as far as telling you from a conservatives point of view what I see, most people that voted Trump were simply fed up with Democrat/liberalism. They don't like Democrat policies, don't agree with them and absolutely do not want to live under them. If they did, Hillary would be President.
I would take it a step further and say for many, the left/Democrats have so offended them by this point that many now don't differentiate the people from the politics. they dislike the Democrats as people as much as the Democrats as politicians/policy. The Democrats have worn their liberalism as a badge for so long and so brazenly that they 'are' that as people to many. Myself included.
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Glad you said it because I also smell a reject from the newly defunct DU is trolling us.
And I have lived in both Wyoming and California too, and this one sounds off like a troll.
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Yah think..
I've been a registered libertarian for the last 10 years. I'm not trying troll, I'm just looking for an actual answer.
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If you don't have borders you don't have a country
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If we want to be semantic, half the country didn't even vote. But no, I don't really care about the vote totals and political trending, as that's a systemic issue and a discussion for another day. I'm really just looking for a way that I can relate to him - I've tried, and come up empty handed.
It is pretty simple. Most voters don't like Washington DC elite shoving their way of living down our throats along with the media who back them. This was a rejection of all that. Trump was the guy standing farthest from it and in many ways an empty suite that people could see what they wanted to see.
Now the rubber meets the road and will see what the truth of it all is, for better or worse.
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If you don't have borders you don't have a country
On that we agree.
So will Trump build "The Wall"?
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The vote totals are all that matters when raw numbers are the issue and people not voting obviously don't care one way or the other. As far as relating to the guy, I'm the wrong person to ask. But as far as telling you from a conservatives point of view what I see, most people that voted Trump were simply fed up with Democrat/liberalism. They don't like Democrat policies, don't agree with them and absolutely do not want to live under them. If they did, Hillary would be President.
I would take it a step further and say for many, the left/Democrats have so offended them by this point that many now don't differentiate the people from the politics. they dislike the Democrats as people as much as the Democrats as politicians/policy. The Democrats have worn their liberalism as a badge for so long and so brazenly that they 'are' that as people to many. Myself included.
I appreciate the answer. That's basically how I feel about both sides. And that's why I'm not asking this on a Democrat forum - I doubt I'd get a reasonable answer. I'm hoping I can get a well reasoned answer from someone here.
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It is pretty simple. Most voters don't like Washington DC elite and the media who back them. This was a rejection of all that. Trump was the guy standing farthest from it and in many ways an empty suite that people could see what they wanted to see.
Now the rubber meets the road and will see what the truth of it all is, for better or worse.
Aren't all politicians essentially the Washington DC elite? And the media that backs them - CNN, FOX, MSNBC, what's the difference? They all profit from playing the same game. How is Trump not one of those elites AND the media who backs them?
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Though you might not know from some, Trump has a Libertarian appeal, drain the swamp; audit the feds type.
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I've been a registered libertarian for the last 10 years. I'm not trying troll, I'm just looking for an actual answer.
Bless your heart...I as many here did not vote for him because he is not a Conservative, I voted for McMullin so we might not be able to answer your question. There is a site called FreeRepublic and just about everyone there voted for him. Possibly they could give you some insights..
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If you don't have borders you don't have a country
I agree, but the wall at the southern border doesn't do much good now. Have you ever been down to the Anza Borrego desert (east of San Diego)? It's a major passage into the U.S. For that matter, there're U.S. citizens that live between the wall and the border in Texas. The wall is basically the same as having a sign that says "Please don't trespass."
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Bless your heart...I as many here did not vote for him because he is not a Conservative, I voted for McMullin so we might not be able to answer your question. There is a site called FreeRepublic and just about everyone there voted for him. Possibly they could give you some insights..
I appreciate it. I'll take a look.
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I appreciate it. I'll take a look.
You might want to avoid that site. They demand unquestioning loyalty to Trump there even though a few years ago the site owner called Trump a "charlatan" who "has all the fall for anything type chumps fooled."
You won't find what you're looking for there but I wish you luck
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Bless your heart...I as many here did not vote for him because he is not a Conservative, I voted for McMullin so we might not be able to answer your question. There is a site called FreeRepublic and just about everyone there voted for him. Possibly they could give you some insights..
That wasn't very nice of you. You know they are going to skewer him and burn him at the stake. :silly:
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Aren't all politicians essentially the Washington DC elite? And the media that backs them - CNN, FOX, MSNBC, what's the difference? They all profit from playing the same game. How is Trump not one of those elites AND the media who backs them?
Well in many ways I think he is one of those elites. But go talk to the average person and many don't think so. They know virtually every time they vote for one of the political class candidates who says the right things they go to Washington and do the opposite. Trump is seen as the furthest from all that of the choices available.
There are a few politicians that talk/act for less government, less top down control of our lives. Those are the ones I support. My concern is Trump isn't really talking about reducing government or restraining it to constitutional limits. If he were health care wouldn't go from Obamacare to Trumpcare. It would be out of the federal government's hands. I see Trump just as another flavor of big government. We'll see if I'm wrong soon enough.
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Bless your heart...I as many here did not vote for him because he is not a Conservative, I voted for McMullin so we might not be able to answer your question. There is a site called FreeRepublic and just about everyone there voted for him. Possibly they could give you some insights..
And 220 Reagan staffers led by Edwin Meese endorsed Trump; but you say he's not conservative.
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rgTSEWHsrBw/maxresdefault.jpg)
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I agree, but the wall at the southern border doesn't do much good now. Have you ever been down to the Anza Borrego desert (east of San Diego)? It's a major passage into the U.S. For that matter, there're U.S. citizens that live between the wall and the border in Texas. The wall is basically the same as having a sign that says "Please don't trespass."
So, the US is undergoing a heroin epidemic and a lot of it, most, probably comes from Mexico, it's a source of crime and it is killing many Americans.
San Diego fence works,
Israel's border wall works.
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I appreciate it. I'll take a look.
Oh Geez, kid I was just playing with you....
You won't get anything like a reasonable response over there, stay the hell away. Ask around here, not everyone is a wise ass like myself and you will probably get some good answers... my bad :chairbang:
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You're objectively wrong. The popular vote went to Hillary - more than half of the country did not disagree with the Democrats. So - what is a policy on which the Democrats are wrong?
All of them! Every last one!
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I appreciate it. I'll take a look.
I voted for Trump. I have been on a self-imposed sabbatical for awhile since this place went batshit crazy crammed full of nevertrump garbage, spewed by likely paid operatives, or the clinically insane.
Back to Trump. He offered
--Border sanity--wall or otherwise
--muslim refugee sanity--better screening, fewer admitted
--foreign policy sanity--don't give Iran nuclear capability and money on top of it.
--economic sanity--quit lying about unemployment, other aspects.
--trade sanity--quit making one sided trade agreements.
--integrity in government, contrasted with the norm for career political operatives.
--Didn't insult the good citizens of America, calling them "Deplorable" and "uneducated." (like the batshit carzy nevertrumps on THIS site did, too)
Guess what? Voters heard his appeal.
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Lol....
Getting an endorsement does not make one a conservative
He will have to govern as one to be one. And that's were we will find out who was right about him and who was wrong
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Some people have noted, Trump is largely preaching what Pat Buchanan did in 1992, what is in a lot of Pat Buchanan's books. Whether that has a libertarian appeals.
Some Libertarians, Ron Paul types, appreciate Trump's message because it is largely about re-shaping the government, I don't want to say "tear it down"; but others might. Trimming the government down, smaller government. Rush said that just in the last two days.
I guess Rush, ex-Reagan staffers, 220, Gingrich, Buchanan, all of the supporters of Trump, etc. don't fit the conservative mode, oh, and Bob Dole too.
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I voted for Trump. I have been on a self-imposed sabbatical for awhile since this place went batshit crazy crammed full of nevertrump garbage, spewed by likely paid operatives, or the clinically insane.
Back to Trump. He offered
--Border sanity--wall or otherwise
--muslim refugee sanity--better screening, fewer admitted
--foreign policy sanity--don't give Iran nuclear capability and money on top of it.
--economic sanity--quit lying about unemployment, other aspects.
--trade sanity--quit making one sided trade agreements.
--integrity in government, contrasted with the norm for career political operatives.
--Didn't insult the good citizens of America, calling them "Deplorable" and "uneducated." (like the batshit carzy nevertrumps on THIS site did, too)
Guess what? Voters heard his appeal.
Paid operatives is probably right, a few people have vanished, yes.
888high58888
WTG Truth Seeker and Trump and Pence.
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At least now, days after the election, we probably have some authentic Never Trumpers and one can understand having differences with the candidate,
It happened to Romney too.
But Goldwater knew, you had to also work with people, not just be a non-cooperative rogue.
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Demand side economics is specifically in reference to the government leaving it alone, eg, Laissez Faire. The most appropriate way to drive the economy is to give money back to people and let them spend it where they choose, not to give it to suppliers, who have no further incentive to reinvest it in the economy.
No, no, and no.
First off, the government should NOT be in the business of driving the economy. Therefore demand/supply side are BOTH wrong.
Secondly, taking money from some people and giving it to others is NOT "the government leaving it alone, eg, Laissez Faire." BTW, why do both of your descriptions of economic stimulous refer to the govenment "giving" something to someone?
Finally, even if we accept your premise that the government should "do something", anyone who made it through week one of Econ 101 can draw out the supply and demand curves to demonstrate that while both approaches raise economic output (if we completely and utterly ignore the damage done by taking the money out of the economy in the first place, government money multiplier my left foot), demand side stimulus causes price inflation, while supply side stimulus causes price deflation.
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You're objectively wrong. The popular vote went to Hillary
Which means diddly squat. You play the game according to the rules, the goal was to win the EC, not the popular vote. Had the popular vote been the criteria for victory, Trump takes a completely different approach, going more for votes in California, etc.
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So, the US is undergoing a heroin epidemic and a lot of it, most, probably comes from Mexico, it's a source of crime and it is killing many Americans.
San Diego fence works,
Israel's border wall works.
The San Diego fence does not work, and the majority of the heroine (specifically fentanyl) comes from China through Canada and the Atlantic port cities, hence the massive issues with it along the east coast. The major issues with Mexican drug smuggling (at least in California) have been marijuana and cocaine. California happens to be the largest supplier of meth, so we've got that one covered.
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I agree, but the wall at the southern border doesn't do much good now. Have you ever been down to the Anza Borrego desert (east of San Diego)? It's a major passage into the U.S. For that matter, there're U.S. citizens that live between the wall and the border in Texas. The wall is basically the same as having a sign that says "Please don't trespass."
@StrangerInAStrangeLand
First is we are a country, globalist don't see it that way, Trump does. Next is how do we protect defend ourselves? Border security is more then walls, but walls do help, Trump "groks" that too. Welcome to TBR, hope to see more of you.
FYI Stranger In A Strange Land is a wonderful read.
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I voted for Trump. I have been on a self-imposed sabbatical for awhile since this place went batshit crazy crammed full of nevertrump garbage, spewed by likely paid operatives, or the clinically insane.
Back to Trump. He offered
--Border sanity--wall or otherwise
--muslim refugee sanity--better screening, fewer admitted
--foreign policy sanity--don't give Iran nuclear capability and money on top of it.
--economic sanity--quit lying about unemployment, other aspects.
--trade sanity--quit making one sided trade agreements.
--integrity in government, contrasted with the norm for career political operatives.
--Didn't insult the good citizens of America, calling them "Deplorable" and "uneducated." (like the batshit carzy nevertrumps on THIS site did, too)
Guess what? Voters heard his appeal.
Ok, but how do those policies work? I wouldn't mind having a mission to Mars, wiping out the global nuclear stockpile, and giving all Americans cost effective energy sources, either - but none of that is easy. I think Trump instead insults our intelligence - he offers a lot of "sanity", but I can't find any substance to any of it. How will any of those policies become real?
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Regardless of how you feel about Trump, it will be fun to see what he does.
After all his bluster and promises, can he deliver or will he crash and burn?
Next year is going to be the most interesting year in politics in decades.
We shall see what we shall see.
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The San Diego fence does not work, and the majority of the heroine (specifically fentanyl) comes from China through Canada and the Atlantic port cities, hence the massive issues with it along the east coast. The major issues with Mexican drug smuggling (at least in California) have been marijuana and cocaine. California happens to be the largest supplier of meth, so we've got that one covered.
Disagree if you want but this has been written about in articles, it was also covered in the Republican candidate debates:
Where U.S.-Mexico border fence is tall, it works
Christian Science Monitor
Mar. 31, 2008 03:12 PM
YUMA - U.S. border patrol agent Michael Bernacke guns his SUV down the wide desert-sand road that lines the U.S.-Mexican border through urban San Luis, Ariz.
To his right stands a steel wall, 20 feet high and reinforced by cement-filled steel piping. To his left another tall fence of steel mesh. Ten yards beyond, a shorter cyclone fence is topped with jagged concertina wire. Visible to the north, through the gauze of fencing are the homes and businesses of this growing Southwest suburbia of 22,000 people.
"This wall works," Bernacke said. "A lot of people have the misconception that it is a waste of time and money, but the numbers of apprehensions show that it works."
The triple-and double-layered fence here in Yuma is the kind of barrier that U.S. lawmakers - and most Americans - imagined when the Secure Fence Act was enacted in 2006.
http://archive.azcentral.com/news/articles/0331yuma-wall0331-ON.html
Most heroin in U.S. now comes across Mexican border, Rob Portman says
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/statements/2016/mar/14/rob-portman/most-heroin-us-comes-over-mexican-border/
So again, we can disagree but let's say "Some" were to come through there, Trump likely wants an expansive program to block illegal contraband in many places.
Anyway, we have a whole "immigration" section here, where these issues are discussed more in depth.
By Libertarian, I will go the Ron Paul route, Gary Johnson may be a libertarian too; but that label is likely to pertain to a lot of points of views, if one says "well, I'm libertarian."
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On that we agree.
So will Trump build "The Wall"?
He can't just wave his magic wand and make the Wall happen, but what he can do is use it as the starting point in the negotiation and then work through it and get substantial immigration reform in the end.....Reach for the stars, hit the Moon. That's the "Art of the Deal". I hope that if we do get immigration reform that satisfies most of what we want, folks won't dwell on it if "The Wall" isn't a part of that.
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Ok, but how do those policies work? I wouldn't mind having a mission to Mars, wiping out the global nuclear stockpile, and giving all Americans cost effective energy sources, either - but none of that is easy. I think Trump instead insults our intelligence - he offers a lot of "sanity", but I can't find any substance to any of it. How will any of those policies become real?
Read Pat Buchanan, Anne Coulter and many other writers, I don't think it can all be answered here.
It sounds like your version of libertarianism is Gary Johnson styled which didn't even garner 5%; so, speaking of insulting people's intelligence.
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@StrangerInAStrangeLand
First is we are a country, globalist don't see it that way, Trump does. Next is how do we protect defend ourselves? Border security is more then walls, but walls do help, Trump "groks" that too. Welcome to TBR, hope to see more of you.
FYI Stranger In A Strange Land is a wonderful read.
Agreed, Stranger In A Strange Land is a very good read. I wouldn't say Trump groks border security, I'd say he groks the lights and distraction of the media. In the end, it seems like he's selling us a free lunch.
I think there's definitely a disparity between those who have been helped and hindered by globalism, but protectionism doesn't seem like a viable answer to that. We've been the economic powerhouse of the world for the last 50 years because we transitioned our economy from things everyone could make to things only we could make. Aerospace, the tech industries, pharma, advanced polymers - we've led the world because nobody else could catch up with us. I'd like to see us creating new industries, not trying to save the old ones that everyone else has.
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This should be moved to "member contributions", this is becoming a bit of a vanity; and news stories are posted here.
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Disagree if you want but this has been written about in articles, it was also covered in the Republican candidate debates:
So again, we can disagree but let's say "Some" were to come through there, Trump likely wants an expansive program to block illegal contraband in many places.
Anyway, we have a whole "immigration" section here, where these issues are discussed more in depth.
By Libertarian, I will go the Ron Paul route, Gary Johnson may be a libertarian too; but that label is likely to pertain to a lot of points of views, if one says "well, I'm libertarian."
Interesting article on heroine, I was unaware of that. I'll have to do some more research. I appreciate it. On the wall issue - they just don't come in where the wall is effective. They go around it, over it, or under it. I'd wager it would be more effective to put people and drones on the border to monitor it and use the left over funds to deal with the demand issue here in the U.S.
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Which means diddly squat. You play the game according to the rules, the goal was to win the EC, not the popular vote. Had the popular vote been the criteria for victory, Trump takes a completely different approach, going more for votes in California, etc.
I completely agree. The system is not built around the popular vote, and the entire argument of "half the country hates x" is worthless.
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No, no, and no.
First off, the government should NOT be in the business of driving the economy. Therefore demand/supply side are BOTH wrong.
Secondly, taking money from some people and giving it to others is NOT "the government leaving it alone, eg, Laissez Faire." BTW, why do both of your descriptions of economic stimulous refer to the govenment "giving" something to someone?
Finally, even if we accept your premise that the government should "do something", anyone who made it through week one of Econ 101 can draw out the supply and demand curves to demonstrate that while both approaches raise economic output (if we completely and utterly ignore the damage done by taking the money out of the economy in the first place, government money multiplier my left foot), demand side stimulus causes price inflation, while supply side stimulus causes price deflation.
The dollar is a fiat currency, and its purchasing power is based on our GDP relative to the rest of the world and the amount of it in circulation. Every dollar in existence is given away by the government (or manufactured illegally). If we want stop using fiat currency, then fine, we can stop giving away money. The money supply is finite, but it's not static - adding money to the supply does not mean taking it from somewhere else. Currency valuation and supply manipulation is a little outside of Econ 101, but it's the same basic concept - demand for currency drives supply for currency. Price inflation is not a result of demand, it's a result of supply limitations. Price inflation encourages growth to supply that demand, and that in turn pushes up our GDP and the value of our currency, increasing our purchasing power. Price deflation caused by supply side drivers causes overproduction and actually deflates the value of our currency in foreign markets, decreasing our actual purchasing power.
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On that we agree.
So will Trump build "The Wall"?
Ann Coulter said, "You can walk into any of Trump's buildings...get into an elevator....and order a creme brulee a 1/2 mile in the sky.....Trump can build the Wall!"
:laugh:
But I understand you said "will".
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This should be moved to "member contributions", this is becoming a bit of a vanity; and news stories are posted here.
I agree.
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The dollar is a fiat currency, and its purchasing power is based on our GDP relative to the rest of the world and the amount of it in circulation. Every dollar in existence is given away by the government (or manufactured illegally). If we want stop using fiat currency, then fine, we can stop giving away money. The money supply is finite, but it's not static - adding money to the supply does not mean taking it from somewhere else. Currency valuation and supply manipulation is a little outside of Econ 101, but it's the same basic concept - demand for currency drives supply for currency. Price inflation is not a result of demand, it's a result of supply limitations. Price inflation encourages growth to supply that demand, and that in turn pushes up our GDP and the value of our currency, increasing our purchasing power. Price deflation caused by supply side drivers causes overproduction and actually deflates the value of our currency in foreign markets, decreasing our actual purchasing power.
The only part you got right in that is "The dollar is Fiat currency..."
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meh... there seems to be no point in trying to explain, and the popcorn seems a little over-done. **nononono*
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meh... there seems to be no point in trying to explain, and the popcorn seems a little over-done. **nononono*
This guy reminds me of someone...can't put my finger on it just yet....
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This should be moved to "member contributions", this is becoming a bit of a vanity; and news stories are posted here.
No Tom. This should be moved into the shithouse and flushed.
(http://eric.metze.us/wp-content/uploads/fry-meme-trolling-or-stupid.jpg)
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No Tom. This should be moved into the shithouse and flushed.
(http://eric.metze.us/wp-content/uploads/fry-meme-trolling-or-stupid.jpg)
Its your fault Frank. He/she/it followed you over from the DU.
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This guy reminds me of someone...can't put my finger on it just yet....
(http://www.americanstandard-us.com/assets/images/productImages/amstd/standard/6726.prd.s.075.png)(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTAwWDUwMA==/z/H8YAAOSwR0JUNcxt/$_3.JPG?set_id=2)
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The only part you got right in that is "The dollar is Fiat currency..."
Ok, then explain it to me. It's been years since my college economics course, and I'm certainly not infallible. I would honestly like to learn, but your response does not provide anything meaningful.
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I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?
You're asking for people to explain why they voted for Trump, and yet when they do explain it, you argue with them. Now, boards such as this are good places to argue, but if that's what you wanted you should have said that from the beginning.
I didn't vote for Trump, so I'll let those folks here who did vote for him explain if they wish to. I would suggest though that you'll come off less like a troll if you simply take the answers they offer, instead of trying to argue them out of their positions.
If you wish to argue there will be other threads where you'll be able to do that, I'm sure. There's a long-time general rule for engaging with boards such as these, and that is, "Lurk more before posting." If you really want to engage folks here, hang around, read some threads, get a feel for the place, dip a toe in with an occasional comment or two, before trying to hit people over the head with your opinions.
Unless you really are just a troll or special snowflake trying to count coup among the Neanderthal right-wingers, in which case, carry on, you're doing great. :patriot:
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Its your fault Frank. He/she/it followed you over from the DU.
I know. I smelled something on the bottom of my shoe.
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Ok, then explain it to me. It's been years since my college economics course, and I'm certainly not infallible. I would honestly like to learn, but your response does not provide anything meaningful.
Don't feed the trolls. You are talking to a bot.
:troll:
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Ok, then explain it to me. It's been years since my college economics course, and I'm certainly not infallible. I would honestly like to learn, but your response does not provide anything meaningful.
I would like to learn why you are so f@#king stupid. You have the acumen of a 12 year old girl who just found out there is no Santa. (You do know there is no Santa, Right?)
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I must admit - I don't understand Trump's appeal. I'm a liberal, in some sense - and I'd identify socially with classical libertarians. Economically I'm a supporter of demand side economics in the sense that Ayn Rand and Robert Heinlein espouse. So far I haven't been able to find any category or policy on which I align with Trump. Then again, I haven't been able to find any real depth on what Trump's policies are, so maybe I'm just missing something. Does anyone have any good references for his policy details, or could you explain some of the policies that influenced you to vote for him?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc
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I voted for the guy because he was running against Hillary. Now I'm having a serious case of buyer's remorse.
I've never seen his appeal. I think he's a vehicle for people who have a lot of anger in them.
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I would like to learn why you are so f@#king stupid. You have the acumen of a 12 year old girl who just found out there is no Santa. (You do know there is no Santa, Right?)
Wait... WHAT? :scared smiley:
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Wait... WHAT? :scared smiley:
I was afraid of this when I posted it......and so close to the season too.
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Wait... WHAT? :scared smiley:
Didn't you know...Virginia was a dem plant and was trolling the New York Sun.
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Didn't you know...Virginia was a dem plant and was trolling the New York Sun.
Maybe we finally have made contact with the Dem plant?
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Maybe we finally have made contact with the Dem plant?
Probably so...he is no longer with us.....so sad...
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I was afraid of this when I posted it......and so close to the season too.
Don't mind me... I'll just be over here in the corner... rethinking my entire world-view... 8888crybaby
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Probably so...he is no longer with us.....so sad...
Virginia, There is a Mrs. Santa Claus!
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Didn't you know...Virginia was a dem plant and was trolling the New York Sun.
Who knew that trolls existed that long ago? :shrug:
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Ok, then explain it to me. It's been years since my college economics course, and I'm certainly not infallible. I would honestly like to learn, but your response does not provide anything meaningful.
OK! I'll explain it to you! You should immediately go back to whatever bastion of liberal Bullshit that filled your head with such as that and DEMAND your money back!
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Maybe we finally have made contact with the Dem plant?
Indubitably my dear Watson!
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Who knew that trolls existed that long ago? :shrug:
1912. 1st known case...evar. True story.
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Don't mind me... I'll just be over here in the corner... rethinking my entire world-view... 8888crybaby
I still believe in Santa Claus.
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What's his appeal...he's a cutie patootie and he is rich..that's all I need to vote for him.
@mystery-ak
(http://rs577.pbsrc.com/albums/ss212/Yashido/Epicly%20Animated%20Other/horrified1.gif~c200)
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@mystery-ak
(http://rs577.pbsrc.com/albums/ss212/Yashido/Epicly%20Animated%20Other/horrified1.gif~c200)
Trump gonna build us a wall. Mmm Hmm
(http://i.imgur.com/waamV3d.jpg)
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Exactlly what we told you Never Trumpers over a year ago and YOU STILL will not listen to.
Trump can win and re-make the US political landscape. He can keep Clinton Crime Inc out of the White House and away from appointment 1-4 new SC Justices.
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Trump gonna build us a wall. Mmm Hmm
(http://i.imgur.com/waamV3d.jpg)
@Cripplecreek
Lol
No wall but a consolation prize for everybody: all the biscuits and mustard we can eat.
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I voted for the guy because he was running against Hillary. Now I'm having a serious case of buyer's remorse.
Then you are not paying attention and merely looking for an excuse to bitch. Considering your year long membership in #Never Trumpland, I am surprised you voted for him. You did everything you could, for about 9 months, to help elect Hillary.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKeYbEOSqYc
It is politics. If you think, rather then feel, your politics you realize that no candidate holds 100% the same view as you. Politics in a Constitutional Republic requires compromise not petulantly whining in the corner becasue no one running is your political clone.
You have one candidate who is 100% opposed to every moral and poltical value you hold. You have another one who is 25-50% at odds with your views.
Really no choice who you vote for. Arrogant children throwing a temper tantrum because they did not get their dream candidate are the only ones who had a problem figuring this out.
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I voted for the guy because he was running against Hillary. Now I'm having a serious case of buyer's remorse.
Didn't you say you worked in law enforcement?
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Exactlly what we told you Never Trumpers over a year ago and YOU STILL will not listen to.
Trump can win and re-make the US political landscape. He can keep Clinton Crime Inc out of the White House and away from appointment 1-4 new SC Justices.
Bugger off you trumpanzee wanker.
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I will try to answer the question as someone who didn't vote for him but can understand why others did.
Feckless GOP, corruption in politics, Black lives matter, violence and riots in the cities, Obamacare, worse recovery in decades, mounting debt, declining middle class, deteriorating race relations, open borders, Hillary Clinton, college snowflakes demanding protection from free speech, Yale and Harvard professors who think they know what's best for everyone else, a media that views Middle America as the enemy, Middle East in a mess.....
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Didn't you say you worked in law enforcement?
Me? No. I'm a strong supporter of law enforcement, when appropriate.