The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: wolfcreek on August 18, 2016, 01:05:05 pm

Title: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: wolfcreek on August 18, 2016, 01:05:05 pm
For the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that Donald Trump is what the small but obsessive, increasingly deracinated, band of “never Trumpers” says he is.  He’s not a “movement conservative” – true.   He’s often crass and vulgar – true.  His quasi-grammatical flights of oratorical fancy often get him into trouble –also true.  "Words matter" they remind him, while calling him a “witless ape,” a “white nationalist,” and -- most childishly -- a "turd-tornado," who’s “dark,”  “condescending,” and a “lunatic,” to list some of the more printable epithets in the conservative press. (You can find plenty of the unprintables here, at Diana West's "Trump lexicon" link.)

Okay.  Therefore… what?

Remember that his opponent in this fall’s presidential election is former secretary of state Hillary Clinton – a woman so breathtakingly corrupt and at the same time so unaccountably privileged that FBI Director James Comey practically indicted her on national television, and then declined to prosecute over her unauthorized and leaky private email server. As a profile in cowardice, Comey is tough to beat.

snip...

https://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2016/08/17/the-moral-cowardice-of-the-nevertrumpumpkins/
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: ScottinVA on August 18, 2016, 02:06:52 pm
Ah yes... the standard rant of the trumpette set... After crowing about how they initially didn't need the conservative vote to push Orange Glorious over the finish line, now anyone who doesn't back him is "cowardly" and "traitorous."

Screw that... got it?

The most egregious "traitorous" act of all was to team up with strategic-voting democrat crossovers to foist a narcissistic, unprepared, insecure, emotionally and mentally unmoored, and UNELECTABLE blowhard into a once-winnable general election, knowing full well he would have his ass handed to him by Her Infernal Malevolence.

We warned you about Trump.  He may be many things -- and all things greatness unto himself (just ask him) -- but presidential material he is most assuredly not.  The blame for the coming debacle does NOT rest with those who oppose Trump.  Rather, it rests with him and those backing him. 

So give the pre-blaming exercises a rest.  This isn't FR... that BS doesn't fly here.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Jazzhead on August 18, 2016, 02:11:16 pm
Opposing fascism isn't moral cowardice; to the contrary, it's a moral imperative.   
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Jazzhead on August 18, 2016, 02:11:47 pm
Ah yes... the standard rant of the trumpette set... After crowing about how they initially didn't need the conservative vote to push Orange Glorious over the finish line, now anyone who doesn't back him is "cowardly" and "traitorous."

Screw that... got it?

The most egregious "traitorous" act of all was to foist a narcissistic, unprepared, insecure, emotionally and mentally unmoored, and UNELECTABLE blowhard into a once-winnable general election, knowing full well he would have his ass handed to him by Her Infernal Malevolence.

We warned you about Trump.  He may be many things -- and all things greatness unto himself (just ask him) -- but presidential material he is most assuredly not.  The blame for the coming debacle does NOT rest with those who oppose Trump.  Rather, it rests with him and those backing him. 

So give the pre-blaming exercises a rest.  This isn't FR... that BS doesn't fly here.

Preach it, brother!
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: ScottinVA on August 18, 2016, 02:12:14 pm
Opposing fascism isn't moral cowardice; to the contrary, it's a moral imperative.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: sinkspur on August 18, 2016, 02:13:28 pm
This is funny.  Trumpsters like Walsh and Hannity smell defeat so they're looking around for somebody else to blame besides themselves and Trump.

They are putting forth the preposterous notion that #NeverTrump, who couldn't stop Trump in a voting pool of 27 million, can suddenly now defeat him when there are 114 million voting.

Look in the mirror, Trumpsters.  You nominated him, you drag him across the finish line.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Just_Victor on August 18, 2016, 02:21:18 pm
If Trump wants my vote, he'll have to earn it.  He can start that process with conservatism.  Being better than Hillary is not just a low bar, it's a non-existent bar.  A burning case of the clap is better than Hillary.

I am willing to vote for Trump, but he's going to have to give me something to vote for.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Victoria33 on August 18, 2016, 02:29:18 pm
  This is funny.  Trumpsters like Walsh and Hannity smell defeat so they're looking around for somebody else to blame besides themselves and Trump.
They are putting forth the preposterous notion that #NeverTrump, who couldn't stop Trump in a voting pool of 27 million, can suddenly now defeat him when there are 114 million voting.  Look in the mirror, Trumpsters.  You nominated him, you drag him across the finish line.
@sinkspur

"The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins"

That title is crap so not going to read the whole article.  Trump people can only call nonTrump people names - that's all they have. 
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: truth_seeker on August 18, 2016, 02:38:06 pm

Enjoy the liberal Supreme Court appointed by Obama=Clinton.

Enjoy diminishing respect in the world, and continued civil disorder under Obama=Clinton.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Jazzhead on August 18, 2016, 02:45:10 pm
Enjoy the liberal Supreme Court appointed by Obama=Clinton.

Enjoy diminishing respect in the world, and continued civil disorder under Obama=Clinton.

I won't enjoy any of that, not one bit.  But I'm still going to do the right thing.   

This is the choice folks like you have given us, TS.  I don't like it;  I fought the good fight to prevent it, in large part because I know Clinton's every bit as corrupt and despicable as you say she is.

 But, as of right now, she's the only one left with the means to defeat Trump.   
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: ScottinVA on August 18, 2016, 02:45:46 pm
Enjoy the liberal Supreme Court appointed by Obama=Clinton.

Enjoy diminishing respect in the world, and continued civil disorder under Obama=Clinton.

Yeah, that's distasteful for all of us, no?  So, knowing that, what was the point of pressing on with nominating the most unelectable candidate in generations??
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Wingnut on August 18, 2016, 03:25:29 pm
Enjoy the liberal Supreme Court appointed by Obama=Clinton.

Enjoy diminishing respect in the world, and continued civil disorder under Obama=Clinton.

Bring back Goosestepping in the streets!  Yeah that's the ticket!
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: LMAO on August 18, 2016, 03:56:34 pm
If Trump wants my vote, he'll have to earn it.  He can start that process with conservatism.  Being better than Hillary is not just a low bar, it's a non-existent bar.  A burning case of the clap is better than Hillary.

I am willing to vote for Trump, but he's going to have to give me something to vote for.

What he said
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: XenaLee on August 18, 2016, 03:56:51 pm
For the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that Donald Trump is what the small but obsessive, increasingly deracinated, band of “never Trumpers” says he is.  He’s not a “movement conservative” – true.   He’s often crass and vulgar – true.  His quasi-grammatical flights of oratorical fancy often get him into trouble –also true.  "Words matter" they remind him, while calling him a “witless ape,” a “white nationalist,” and -- most childishly -- a "turd-tornado," who’s “dark,”  “condescending,” and a “lunatic,” to list some of the more printable epithets in the conservative press. (You can find plenty of the unprintables here, at Diana West's "Trump lexicon" link.)

Okay.  Therefore… what?

Remember that his opponent in this fall’s presidential election is former secretary of state Hillary Clinton – a woman so breathtakingly corrupt and at the same time so unaccountably privileged that FBI Director James Comey practically indicted her on national television, and then declined to prosecute over her unauthorized and leaky private email server. As a profile in cowardice, Comey is tough to beat.

snip...

https://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2016/08/17/the-moral-cowardice-of-the-nevertrumpumpkins/

Therefore, you reap what you have sown.....always. 

In November, the highly flawed, crap candidate that you Trumpsters pushed upon the nation will lose to a slightly crappier candidate (both big-government leftists, however...in their stances re: never seen a government program they didn't just love)....and then Trumpsters will proceed to continue blaming anybody and everybody BUT themselves.  Yet another typical leftist-liberal trait....never accepting the blame for ones' own actions, words and deeds.

As for that ongoing accusation that those of us that oppose Trump are somehow immoral, the reality is it's the exact opposite.  Those that gave in to their lesser and baser nature by supporting The Don early on....and continue to do so despite his ever-growing warts problem....are the ones that are immoral IMO.  They are the ones that are, in fact, accepting evil.....albeit a falsely perceived lesser evil....since we really don't know just how bad Trump would be....or how much worse. 

But their only defense now is to pretend that ..."it's not me, it's them".  It is, quite frankly, bullchit.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Idaho_Cowboy on August 18, 2016, 03:59:03 pm
Guess we weren't as irrelevant as we were told.  :whistle:
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Cripplecreek on August 18, 2016, 04:03:15 pm
Opposing fascism isn't moral cowardice; to the contrary, it's a moral imperative.

More man than most of us will ever be but the least I can do is try.

(http://i.imgur.com/e0ZyzPa.png)

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: CSM on August 18, 2016, 04:10:04 pm
I don't see much "selling" of the candidate, I do see a lot of abusing the "irrelevant" segment of the base.  Why is that?  Why can't the Trump supporters "sell" him to me?  Are his positive attributes that rare?
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: mystery-ak on August 18, 2016, 04:17:45 pm
If Trump wants my vote, he'll have to earn it.  He can start that process with conservatism.  Being better than Hillary is not just a low bar, it's a non-existent bar.  A burning case of the clap is better than Hillary.

I am willing to vote for Trump, but he's going to have to give me something to vote for.

Agreed...
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: andy58-in-nh on August 18, 2016, 04:31:45 pm
More man than most of us will ever be but the least I can do is try.

(http://i.imgur.com/e0ZyzPa.png)

“If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction.”
  ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Vulcan on August 18, 2016, 04:32:23 pm
Ah yes... the standard rant of the trumpette set... After crowing about how they initially didn't need the conservative vote to push Orange Glorious over the finish line, now anyone who doesn't back him is "cowardly" and "traitorous."

Screw that... got it?

The most egregious "traitorous" act of all was to team up with strategic-voting democrat crossovers to foist a narcissistic, unprepared, insecure, emotionally and mentally unmoored, and UNELECTABLE blowhard into a once-winnable general election, knowing full well he would have his ass handed to him by Her Infernal Malevolence.

We warned you about Trump.  He may be many things -- and all things greatness unto himself (just ask him) -- but presidential material he is most assuredly not.  The blame for the coming debacle does NOT rest with those who oppose Trump.  Rather, it rests with him and those backing him. 

So give the pre-blaming exercises a rest.  This isn't FR... that BS doesn't fly here.

Well put. 

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Hurricane Andrew on August 18, 2016, 04:49:33 pm
If Trump wants my vote, he'll have to earn it.  He can start that process with conservatism.  Being better than Hillary is not just a low bar, it's a non-existent bar.  A burning case of the clap is better than Hillary.

I am willing to vote for Trump, but he's going to have to give me something to vote for.

Agreed.  And the continuous attacks on Ted Cruz and those who didn't support Trump in the primary doesn't accomplish that in any way, shape or form.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: INVAR on August 18, 2016, 05:02:33 pm
Walsh and his ilk can get bent.

They and their messiah told us they did not need nor want our support, that Trump would "win" without us.

Now that desperation is setting in, the shaming and intimidation tactics against those they have already told they did not need nor want are ratcheting up notches, exactly as we predicted they would.

Enjoy the liberal Supreme Court appointed by Obama=Clinton.

Enjoy diminishing respect in the world, and continued civil disorder under Obama=Clinton.

YOU PEOPLE made that inevitability when you made Trump your prince.

Your ilk are to blame for all the consequences YOU made possible with the disgusting mob-tactics of your fellow Trump fanatics and the trashing of every real Conservative that was in the race.

You bought into the Trojan Stalking Horse sent by Hildabeast.  The disaster that is now upon us is the direct result of the choice you made.

Live with it.

Or not.

We don't care.

We have other plans.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Cripplecreek on August 18, 2016, 05:09:18 pm
Moral cowardice is letting this go on every day all day without ever pushing back or even bothering to acknowledge it as long as they're on your side.

(http://i.imgur.com/SnLA89G.png)
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: montanajoe on August 18, 2016, 05:14:43 pm
The guy equates morality with political belief. It's sad that many in today's America no longer even have a concept of what morality is...

The primary reason I will never vote for Clinton or Trump is because they both are amoral individuals and I do not want my kids to ever look at them as role models. I don't want them to grow up and be like either...

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Emjay on August 18, 2016, 05:20:22 pm
Enjoy the liberal Supreme Court appointed by Obama=Clinton.

Enjoy diminishing respect in the world, and continued civil disorder under Obama=Clinton.

Threatening us with Clinton is a valid ploy.  In fact, it is the only ploy that trumpettes have.

But if Wolfcreek thinks his boy knows the meaning of deracinated, he might want to think again. 
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: rodamala on August 18, 2016, 05:24:52 pm
DJT fails the J.C. Watts, "Character Counts" criteria.  He is not doing the right thing when nobody is looking.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: EasyAce on August 18, 2016, 05:31:30 pm
(http://cdn-users2.imagechef.com/sketchpadmeme/160813/memea0476c544d158b0e.jpg)
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Axel on August 18, 2016, 05:36:17 pm
I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Half Vast Conspiracy on August 18, 2016, 05:42:54 pm

But their only defense now is to pretend that ..."it's not me, it's them". 


(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/episode-7-pictured-martin-short-as-nathan-thurm-during-the-saturday-picture-id138268076?k=6&m=138268076&s=594x594&w=0&h=3xyD16nIjGQxT4fvTGnqtdtdRt9cc4QhnT45ja8Es7g=)
Nathan Thurm  ;)
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: roamer_1 on August 18, 2016, 05:49:06 pm
I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

That's because Democrats always play to their base.

Quote
I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

Maybe... Just maybe, Republicans should mimic Democrats.... Yes, yes, I know... They already are - Just look at what they offer as a candidate... But I mean in a different way.

Maybe Republicans should offer their base what they want, like the Democrats do. They might find out they'll win.

In the mean time, I will remain Conservative and vote for Conservatives.  All this whining and crying and pitching a fit won't change that.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: ScottinVA on August 18, 2016, 05:50:13 pm
I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

I find interesting your implications the whole election rests on the decision of a relative few conservatives who choose not to support Trump.  Whatever happened to all those chest-pounding, heady days in which we heard, "We don't need your vote!!!?" 

Are "anti-Trumpers" forcing Orange Glorious to fecklessly engage in a tit-for-tat with a Gold Star family when he should've used that post-convention "bump" to convey his policy positions?  Are "anti-Trumpers" forcing him to avoid setting up field offices in Virginia and North Carolina?  Are "anti-Trumpers" causing Trump to wait until 81 days out from Election Day and four weeks out from the start of early voting to run his first set of TV and radio ads?  Is it the responsibility of "anti-Trumpers" that 48 hours can't elapse before your boy starts blathering mindlessly and gaffeing about everything from "not forgiving voters" to "not needing to get out the vote?"

WE warned YOU and those like you about Trump and the fact he is horrendously unqualified for the office of President.  WE warned YOU and those like you he did not have a command of the majority of the general electorate like he did the plurality of GOP voters who aligned with strategically voting democrat crossovers.  WE warned YOU and those like you that Trump, with his background, was a target-rich environment for the Clintons.  WE  warned YOU Trump was unelectable... and YOU deign to blame US? 

So save the pontifications and use this time to reflect on the gross error YOU made by nominating someone who never had a possibility of winning in the first place, and by all indications, is perfectly fine with finishing in second place.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Night Hides Not on August 18, 2016, 06:01:07 pm
For the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that Donald Trump is what the small but obsessive, increasingly deracinated, band of “never Trumpers” says he is.  He’s not a “movement conservative” – true.   He’s often crass and vulgar – true.  His quasi-grammatical flights of oratorical fancy often get him into trouble –also true.  "Words matter" they remind him, while calling him a “witless ape,” a “white nationalist,” and -- most childishly -- a "turd-tornado," who’s “dark,”  “condescending,” and a “lunatic,” to list some of the more printable epithets in the conservative press. (You can find plenty of the unprintables here, at Diana West's "Trump lexicon" link.)

Okay.  Therefore… what?

Remember that his opponent in this fall’s presidential election is former secretary of state Hillary Clinton – a woman so breathtakingly corrupt and at the same time so unaccountably privileged that FBI Director James Comey practically indicted her on national television, and then declined to prosecute over her unauthorized and leaky private email server. As a profile in cowardice, Comey is tough to beat.

snip...

https://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2016/08/17/the-moral-cowardice-of-the-nevertrumpumpkins/

Taking a page from BG McAuliffe at Bastogne:

NUTS!!!
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Axel on August 18, 2016, 06:03:52 pm
That's because Democrats always play to their base.

Maybe... Just maybe, Republicans should mimic Democrats.... Yes, yes, I know... They already are - Just look at what they offer as a candidate... But I mean in a different way.

Maybe Republicans should offer their base what they want, like the Democrats do. They might find out they'll win.

In the mean time, I will remain Conservative and vote for Conservatives.  All this whining and crying and pitching a fit won't change that.

Except the Dem base wanted Bernie Sanders, but they're quickly lining up behind Hillary Clinton nonetheless. The Republicans on the other hand can't agree on anything, which is par for the course. Still, to suggest that the base didn't nominate Trump is not consistent with reality. Reality is, Trump won with evangelicals, he won the South, and he won rural Appalachia - these groups are the base, and are consistently conservative. You can't get everything you want in a Presidential candidate, but if you choose to not participate or vote third party, you'll get absolutely nothing.

If Hillary weren't the queen of corruption, or were more moderate like she used to be, I could understand abstention.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Night Hides Not on August 18, 2016, 06:06:27 pm
I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

Apologies for diverting from the message of the thread, but market forces are in the process of ending Obamacare. Don't forget that the most pernicious parts of Obamacare don't go into effect until next year.

Whoever wins will not enjoy any honeymoon, nor a mandate. I'm more worried about the snakes in Congress with an "R" after their names than I am of Hillary.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Free Vulcan on August 18, 2016, 06:09:36 pm
If Trump wants my vote, he'll have to earn it.  He can start that process with conservatism.  Being better than Hillary is not just a low bar, it's a non-existent bar.  A burning case of the clap is better than Hillary.

I am willing to vote for Trump, but he's going to have to give me something to vote for.

Yep! Ears open, listening, and waiting for a reason to come over and commit.

And waiting....

And waiting...
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: ScottinVA on August 18, 2016, 06:13:23 pm
Yep! Ears open, listening, and waiting for a reason to come over and commit.

And waiting....

And waiting...

Ditto here.  I can still be persuaded by Trump to vote for him.  But to actually GAIN my vote, he must show he DESERVES it.  I would never cast a vote for Her Infernal Malevolence, but I sure as hell am over casting a vote for someone simply because he/she is the "lesser of two evils."  That doesn't cut it anymore.  So, impress me, Trump.   
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: catfish1957 on August 18, 2016, 06:15:48 pm
Yep! Ears open, listening, and waiting for a reason to come over and commit.

And waiting....

And waiting...

On day one he announced, at FR I very strongly stated that this fool was a liberal Trojan Horse who was duping anyone stupid enough to buy off on his Snake Oil.  Even then he was 17th out of 17 in the field in my picks of preference.  One and a half notches below Kasich.

I plea to the RNC......

(1) Invoke Rule 9, and replace Trump or....
(2) Funnel every single cent of GOP money to battleground races for the senate and house, so we can fight Hitlerly until 2018, and 2020.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Axel on August 18, 2016, 06:17:53 pm
WE warned YOU and those like you about Trump and the fact he is horrendously unqualified for the office of President.  WE warned YOU and those like you he did not have a command of the majority of the general electorate like he did the plurality of GOP voters who aligned with strategically voting democrat crossovers.  WE warned YOU and those like you that Trump, with his background, was a target-rich environment for the Clintons.  WE  warned YOU Trump was unelectable... and YOU deign to blame US? 

So save the pontifications and use this time to reflect on the gross error YOU made by nominating someone who never had a possibility of winning in the first place, and by all indications, is perfectly fine with finishing in second place.

lol, you're trying to make it all so personal. I wasn't even a part of this forum, so you hardly warned ME. I also never said your vote wasn't important or needed.

Here's a great idea. I'll add you to my  list of people to ignore,  and you do the same.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: ScottinVA on August 18, 2016, 06:22:07 pm
lol, you're trying to make it all so personal. I wasn't even a part of this forum, so you hardly warned ME. I also never said your vote wasn't important or needed.

Here's a great idea. I'll add you to my  list of people to ignore,  and you do the same.

"YOU" in a general sense... as a group.  And I did not say YOU specifically said my vote wasn't important or needed.  What you specifically DID do however, was to impugn those who have doubts about Trump, his ability to lead, his ever-shifting policy positions, his intentions to win and his ability to win.

Put me on ignore?  Hey, go for it.  Great tool there, no?
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Night Hides Not on August 18, 2016, 06:23:07 pm
Ditto here.  I can still be persuaded by Trump to vote for him.  But to actually GAIN my vote, he must show he DESERVES it.  I would never cast a vote for Her Infernal Malevolence, but I sure as hell am over casting a vote for someone simply because he/she is the "lesser of two evils."  That doesn't cut it anymore.  So, impress me, Trump.

Trump doesn't have to "impress" me. I'd be satisfied if he exorcised the petulant 9 YO boy that's inside of him.

That's all...is that asking too much?
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: INVAR on August 18, 2016, 06:24:31 pm
Reality is, Trump won with evangelicals, he won the South, and he won rural Appalachia - these groups are the base, and are consistently conservative.

Then you should haven problem "winning" the White House for your prince.

You do not need the likes of us, just as your prince and his Militants have told principled Conservatives repeatedly early on in this campaign.

So stop attempting to shame and ridicule us into supporting that which is anathema to us.


You can't get everything you want in a Presidential candidate, but if you choose to not participate or vote third party, you'll get absolutely nothing.

We don't care. 

We do not live by Mordor -At-The-Potomac's leave.

We have other plans.

If Hillary weren't the queen of corruption, or were more moderate like she used to be, I could understand abstention.

We see Trump as inherently more or equally dangerous as The Mao Pantsuit.

Thus the abstention.

We have other plans.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: catfish1957 on August 18, 2016, 06:27:03 pm
Trump doesn't have to "impress" me. I'd be satisfied if he exorcised the petulant 9 YO boy that's inside of him.

That's all...is that asking too much?

Asking and getting maturity are miles  apart in the world and psyche of DJT.  Al the dims have to do between now and November is continually bait him into gaffes, and it will be a cake walk.  Trump is physically incapable of extracting his foot from his mouth.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: ScottinVA on August 18, 2016, 06:28:51 pm
Trump doesn't have to "impress" me. I'd be satisfied if he exorcised the petulant 9 YO boy that's inside of him.

That's all...is that asking too much?

Considering Trump's penchant for childish behavior.. that'd impress me.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 06:32:00 pm
I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

Trump supports Obamacare.......... actually worse.

And that doesn't bother you??

Perhaps the "self-righteousness" is with the crowd that refuses to see the truth in front of them and hangs on to their own version of reality.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Night Hides Not on August 18, 2016, 06:32:32 pm
Asking and getting maturity are miles  apart in the world and psyche of DJT.  Al the dims have to do between now and November is continually bait him into gaffes, and it will be a cake walk.  Trump is physically incapable of extracting his foot from his mouth.

With FDR, the nation heard "Fireside Chats".

With Trump, the nation will get daily/weekly "Twitter Wars", courtesy of a man with access to the nuclear football.

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: catfish1957 on August 18, 2016, 06:34:00 pm

With Trump, the nation will get daily/weekly "Twitter Wars."

And in those wars Trump's record is about as good as the Chicago Cubs during the past 108 years.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Axel on August 18, 2016, 06:37:32 pm

So stop attempting to shame and ridicule us into supporting that which is anathema to us.

I'm going to continue to post my opinion, and I don't care if you like it. Ignore me if you want.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Taxcontrol on August 18, 2016, 06:43:48 pm
Therefore ... What?


Therefore I can't in good conscience vote for him.  He has poisoned the well with is lying and name calling and attacks on good conservatives.  He sided with the GOPe against the TeaParty and conservatives.  When he had the opportunity to mend fences, he doubled down and added insult to injury.  He says he does not need conservatives and we know that the GOPe does not like conservatives.  Fine, go ahead and win without us.  I am going to go and build a place where conservatives  are wanted, their ideas and ideals are respected.

The new "home" that I found is with the Constitution Party.  Gone is the will to work within the GOP to try and change the party.  I soldiered for over 20 years in the GOP, manning phone banks, and even serving as a Precinct Captain.  No longer. The GOP is part of the problem.  Good bye and good riddance.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: roamer_1 on August 18, 2016, 06:44:05 pm
Except the Dem base wanted Bernie Sanders, but they're quickly lining up behind Hillary Clinton nonetheless.

Sure they'll vote for her - Granted she ain't anywhere  near as far left as Bernie, But the far left will still get plenty of what they are there for.

Tell me - What has the far right been given since Reagan, or even the 94 congress?

Quote
The Republicans on the other hand can't agree on anything, which is par for the course.

Baloney. They all pay lip service to Reagan... They're all true blue conservatives in the election season. They all cry out for Conservatism... Then once they get elected, they go to DC, and DO the opposite.

Quote
Still, to suggest that the base didn't nominate Trump is not consistent with reality. Reality is, Trump won with evangelicals, he won the South, and he won rural Appalachia - these groups are the base, and are consistently conservative.

And that's why Trump is barely ahead in places like Georgia... And Utah.... Bullcrap.
Btw, to date, I still only know three people IRL that will vote for Trump. Three. I knew about a dozen that would vote for Romney... And I ain't alone, by any means.

Quote
You can't get everything you want in a Presidential candidate, but if you choose to not participate or vote third party, you'll get absolutely nothing.

And if I vote for NY liberalism, I get nothing anyway... Thanks all the same, but I'll vote for the Conservative. At least that way, I'll get some satisfaction... And who knows... Enough of all y'all start standing up for what you believe in, and vote Castle, we might even get a real win.

Quote
If Hillary weren't the queen of corruption, or were more moderate like she used to be, I could understand abstention.

Meh. I reject the lesser evil meme. That is  what has got us here. Real change comes from insistence upon Conservative statesmen, and I will only vote for Conservatives from this day until the day I die. The liberal lying GOP can go screw.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: truth_seeker on August 18, 2016, 06:49:11 pm
I won't enjoy any of that, not one bit.  But I'm still going to do the right thing.   

This is the choice folks like you have given us, TS.  I don't like it;  I fought the good fight to prevent it, in large part because I know Clinton's every bit as corrupt and despicable as you say she is.

 But, as of right now, she's the only one left with the means to defeat Trump.   

Dude, I voted in California, not Pennsylvania. It was settled by California June 7th.

You should more appropriately focus your disdain on your fellow Pennsylvanian Republican primary voters, who gave the win to Trump with 56.7% versus runner up Cruz, with just 21.6%. Trump won every Penn county, by the way.

You and "folks like you" failed. Failed to sell your candidates in YOUR STATE on April 16th when the national race was not settled.

I decided early on that Trump was the only candidate showing enough metabolism and fight, to defeat a democrat this time. I still do.

So keep on defending your support for Hillary, your oft stated intention or willingness to vote for her. "Folks like you" fall into a category on this site, as phony "conservatives" because you take the liberal side of most topics.

Your moderate GOP Establishment is so inept, it got started with 17 candidates, and it was downhill from there. Let me know when you have a plan for ANYTHING, which brings about better border security, better immigration screening, etc.

Keep right on talking down to Trump supporters. But realize this: You cannot win anything, anywhere without them.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/pennsylvania

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: catfish1957 on August 18, 2016, 06:51:13 pm
Therefore ... What?


Therefore I can't in good conscience vote for him.  He has poisoned the well with is lying and name calling and attacks on good conservatives.  He sided with the GOPe against the TeaParty and conservatives.  When he had the opportunity to mend fences, he doubled down and added insult to injury.  He says he does not need conservatives and we know that the GOPe does not like conservatives.  Fine, go ahead and win without us.  I am going to go and build a place where conservatives  are wanted, their ideas and ideals are respected.

The new "home" that I found is with the Constitution Party.  Gone is the will to work within the GOP to try and change the party.  I soldiered for over 20 years in the GOP, manning phone banks, and even serving as a Precinct Captain.  No longer. The GOP is part of the problem.  Good bye and good riddance.

Well put, same sentiments here.  I held my nose as a conservative in '08 & '12, and pulled the lever for weak candidates who did not value conservative voters.

Here in 2016, we have a wolf in sheep's clothing who has duped the GOP via Jedi Mind Tricks into thinking he has the Party of Reagan's best interest at Heart.

Most telling is that historically GOP POTUS candidates pull 89-94% of the base.  Trump is stuck at 80%.  When someone gives conservatives the finger like Trump has.......   Don't come groveling for our votes.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: geronl on August 18, 2016, 06:51:45 pm
No cowardice is involved in not voting for the immoral man
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Jazzhead on August 18, 2016, 06:59:39 pm
Dude, I voted in California, not Pennsylvania. It was settled by California June 7th.

You should more appropriately focus your disdain on your fellow Pennsylvanian Republican primary voters, who gave the win to Trump with 56.7% versus runner up Cruz, with just 21.6%. Trump won every Penn county, by the way.

You and "folks like you" failed. Failed to sell your candidates in YOUR STATE on April 16th when the national race was not settled.

I decided early on that Trump was the only candidate showing enough metabolism and fight, to defeat a democrat this time. I still do.

So keep on defending your support for Hillary, your oft stated intention or willingness to vote for her. "Folks like you" fall into a category on this site, as phony "conservatives" because you take the liberal side of most topics.

Your moderate GOP Establishment is so inept, it got started with 17 candidates, and it was downhill from there. Let me know when you have a plan for ANYTHING, which brings about better border security, better immigration screening, etc.

Keep right on talking down to Trump supporters. But realize this: You cannot win anything, anywhere without them.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/pennsylvania

I'm perfectly comfortable with my conservative credentials, TS.   Now my brand of conservatism derives from Goldwater, Reagan and Kemp,  and I'll be the first to admit my kind's a dying breed.   But I'm not a racialist anti-immigrant xenophobe like Trump and his alt-right supporters,  and I will continue to fight the hostile takeover of my party by that breed. 
 
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Night Hides Not on August 18, 2016, 07:14:25 pm
"YOU" in a general sense... as a group.  And I did not say YOU specifically said my vote wasn't important or needed.  What you specifically DID do however, was to impugn those who have doubts about Trump, his ability to lead, his ever-shifting policy positions, his intentions to win and his ability to win.

Put me on ignore?  Hey, go for it.  Great tool there, no?

Sorry to go O/T, but I REALLY wish my wife would put me on ignore for the next few weeks. School starts next week, band practice and other band activities have drained nearly every minute of free time for the past two weeks, and it's now DEFCON 3 in the house. Every slight, real or imagined, has us walking on eggshells.   :silly:

I finally had to deliver the message in no uncertain terms to my 14 YO son last night: I love both my wife and my son, but I will stand behind his mother, even when she is wrong. He needs to appreciate the simple fact that both of his parents would take a bullet for him, anytime and without question.

Perhaps becoming a dad again at 48 wasn't such a fantastic idea, after all.

 :lotsosmileys:

Of course, I'm j/k.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: catfish1957 on August 18, 2016, 07:17:06 pm
I'm perfectly comfortable with my conservative credentials, TS.   Now my brand of conservatism derives from Goldwater, Reagan and Kemp,  and I'll be the first to admit my kind's a dying breed.   But I'm not a racialist anti-immigrant xenophobe like Trump and his alt-right supporters,  and I will continue to fight the hostile takeover of my party by that breed.

Sadly, my most concerning issue is the $17T debt debacle that our government got us into.  Fiscal conservatism is 95% of my voting psyche.

Neither candidate thinks it matters by the rhetoric on expanding government.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: HonestJohn on August 18, 2016, 07:59:31 pm
Enjoy the liberal Supreme Court appointed by Obama=Clinton.

Enjoy diminishing respect in the world, and continued civil disorder under Obama=Clinton.

Is that how you'd have voted in the 1932... in Europe.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: RoosGirl on August 18, 2016, 08:21:28 pm
Quote
they demand a rules change after the game is over, and refuse to accept the results.

What in the world?  I wasn't aware the rules required we vote for who they tell us to.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Cripplecreek on August 18, 2016, 08:27:48 pm
Is that how you'd have voted in the 1932... in Europe.

Don't blame me, I voted for Hindenberg. :shrug:
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: wolfcreek on August 18, 2016, 08:37:17 pm
I won't enjoy any of that, not one bit.  But I'm still going to do the right thing.   

This is the choice folks like you have given us, TS.  I don't like it;  I fought the good fight to prevent it, in large part because I know Clinton's every bit as corrupt and despicable as you say she is.

 But, as of right now, she's the only one left with the means to defeat Trump.   

Let's hope YOUR "right thing" doesn't screw everyone.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: INVAR on August 18, 2016, 08:38:20 pm
I'm going to continue to post my opinion, and I don't care if you like it. Ignore me if you want.

Obviously 'your opinion' is just as empty and vapid as Trump's *suggestions* are, moment to moment.

YOU SAID - Trump won Evangelicals, the South and rural areas that make up the 'base'.

I reminded you that your prince and his acolytes repeatedly told those of us opposed to him, that he would win without us principled Conservatives - he did not need us to "win", nor did he want our vote.

So I will ask again, why bother attempting to shame us into supporting someone who is anathema to our very foundational principles given the fact you asserted (again) that Trump has sewn up the base and does not need us?

Are you attempting to convince, or just instigate?
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: aligncare on August 18, 2016, 08:44:31 pm
Dude, I voted in California, not Pennsylvania. It was settled by California June 7th.

You should more appropriately focus your disdain on your fellow Pennsylvanian Republican primary voters, who gave the win to Trump with 56.7% versus runner up Cruz, with just 21.6%. Trump won every Penn county, by the way.

You and "folks like you" failed. Failed to sell your candidates in YOUR STATE on April 16th when the national race was not settled.

I decided early on that Trump was the only candidate showing enough metabolism and fight, to defeat a democrat this time. I still do.

So keep on defending your support for Hillary, your oft stated intention or willingness to vote for her. "Folks like you" fall into a category on this site, as phony "conservatives" because you take the liberal side of most topics.

Your moderate GOP Establishment is so inept, it got started with 17 candidates, and it was downhill from there. Let me know when you have a plan for ANYTHING, which brings about better border security, better immigration screening, etc.

Keep right on talking down to Trump supporters. But realize this: You cannot win anything, anywhere without them.

http://www.nytimes.com/elections/results/pennsylvania

That's pretty much how I see it, truth seeker. I've heard jazz head in the past say that he would even vote for Hillary to avoid voting for Trump.

I guess Trump must be the worst candidate in history according to NEVERS!
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: wolfcreek on August 18, 2016, 08:46:06 pm
I wish liberals set the bar as high for their candidate as the folks here. Unfortunately, they will line up rank and file behind their corrupt candidate, and I'm worried that's who we'll be stuck with.

I'm glad the self-righteous anti-Trumpers are so well off that they can endure another 4 years of Obamacare. I can't. Not to mention if Hillary gets her way, we'll have amnesty for illegals, which will heavily tilt the political landscape towards the Dems. Ted Cruz won't have a chance in hell in 2020.

Expect to get a bunch of "oh well, you picked a horrible candidate" and other assorted horse manure to cover their asses.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: truth_seeker on August 18, 2016, 08:48:53 pm
Is that how you'd have voted in the 1932... in Europe.
You are an easy pushover. No wonder college took 20 years.

My father and my father-in-law earned Purple Hearts in service during WWII.

I wasn't in Europe. My ancestors have served in EVERY conflict since before the American Revolution. I served when called. When I served in Germany, I was appointed to chair a study group, on race relations. My superiors valued my maturity and insight, even as e 22 year old enlisted soldier.

My wife is the daughter and granddaughter, of a legal immigrants. Legal as in LEGAL. Several in our extended families are intermarried with Hispanics, Asians, a black, etc.

Your service and credentials, in behalf of this country?

Your idiotic but continual calls of racism only paint you as an sore loser. But I can see here, day in and day out, it is the sole concept you post about.

 
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Jazzhead on August 18, 2016, 08:49:06 pm
Sadly, my most concerning issue is the $17T debt debacle that our government got us into.  Fiscal conservatism is 95% of my voting psyche.

Neither candidate thinks it matters by the rhetoric on expanding government.

Unfortunately,  there are few Republicans of any stripe anymore who are willing to be budget hawks.   That's the kind of old-school conservatism that isn't in style anymore.   The only candidate this year who had a track record as a budget hawk was John Kasich, and I'm proud to say I supported him.   
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Jazzhead on August 18, 2016, 08:54:55 pm
That's pretty much how I see it, truth seeker. I've heard jazz head in the past say that he would even vote for Hillary to avoid voting for Trump.

I see you're still pushing that old slander, AC.  Listen up - I supported John Kasich, in large part because he was the most likely candidate to defeat Clinton,  and create the conditions to effect conservative change.   You, on the other hand, stubbornly have supported the one candidate almost certain to not only lose, but hand the whole damn federal government over to the Dems.

You reap what you sow, AC.   Stop whining over those of us who won't drink the Kool-Aid.   
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: HonestJohn on August 18, 2016, 08:58:04 pm
You are an easy pushover. No wonder college took 20 years.

My father and my father-in-law earned Purple Hearts in service during WWII.

I wasn't in Europe. My ancestors have served in EVERY conflict since before the American Revolution. I served when called. When I served in Germany, I was appointed to chair a study group, on race relations. My superiors valued my maturity and insight, even as e 22 year old enlisted soldier.

My wife is the daughter and granddaughter, of a legal immigrants. Legal as in LEGAL. Several in our extended families are intermarried with Hispanics, Asians, a black, etc.

Your service and credentials, in behalf of this country?

Your idiotic but continual calls of racism only paint you as an sore loser. But I can see here, day in and day out, it is the sole concept you post about.

I notice you didn't actually answer the question.  Nice deflection, though.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: RoosGirl on August 18, 2016, 09:02:30 pm
You are an easy pushover. No wonder college took 20 years.

My father and my father-in-law earned Purple Hearts in service during WWII.

I wasn't in Europe. My ancestors have served in EVERY conflict since before the American Revolution. I served when called. When I served in Germany, I was appointed to chair a study group, on race relations. My superiors valued my maturity and insight, even as e 22 year old enlisted soldier.

My wife is the daughter and granddaughter, of a legal immigrants. Legal as in LEGAL. Several in our extended families are intermarried with Hispanics, Asians, a black, etc.

Your service and credentials, in behalf of this country?

Your idiotic but continual calls of racism only paint you as an sore loser. But I can see here, day in and day out, it is the sole concept you post about.

Wow, those are some righteous creds you've got.  I can see now why your opinion of who everyone should vote for is more legitimate than everyone else's. :P
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: INVAR on August 18, 2016, 09:18:13 pm
Expect to get a bunch of "oh well, you picked a horrible candidate" and other assorted horse manure to cover their asses.



 'Cover our asses'????

NeverTrumps are very proud, very open and very vocal about our opposition to your prince.  We have no need to cover up our choice to oppose your nominee - because we have no part or portion in the Trojan Stalking Horse you hitched your wagon to.  He is all yours.

The only folks 'covering their asses' are those of you re-explaining everything Trump says and playing Apologists for that turd prince of yours.

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Wingnut on August 18, 2016, 09:18:25 pm
Don't blame me, I voted for Hindenberg. :shrug:

Zeppelin for me. Not my fault either.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: wolfcreek on August 18, 2016, 09:23:03 pm



 'Cover our asses'????

NeverTrumps are very proud, very open and very vocal about our opposition to your prince.  We have no need to cover up our choice to oppose your nominee - because we have no part or portion in the Trojan Stalking Horse you hitched your wagon to.  He is all yours.

The only folks 'covering their asses' are those of you re-explaining everything Trump says and playing Apologists for that turd prince of yours.

Would you please stop it with the royalty references. It's starting to sound awfully gay. 'specially when you add "turd".
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Idaho_Cowboy on August 18, 2016, 09:34:29 pm
You are an easy pushover. No wonder college took 20 years.

My father and my father-in-law earned Purple Hearts in service during WWII.

I wasn't in Europe. My ancestors have served in EVERY conflict since before the American Revolution. I served when called. When I served in Germany, I was appointed to chair a study group, on race relations. My superiors valued my maturity and insight, even as e 22 year old enlisted soldier.

My wife is the daughter and granddaughter, of a legal immigrants. Legal as in LEGAL. Several in our extended families are intermarried with Hispanics, Asians, a black, etc.

Your service and credentials, in behalf of this country?

Your idiotic but continual calls of racism only paint you as an sore loser. But I can see here, day in and day out, it is the sole concept you post about.
Some of my ancestors were here before you white illegal immigrants showed up. Just saying...

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Idaho_Cowboy on August 18, 2016, 09:38:17 pm
Wow, those are some righteous creds you've got.  I can see now why your opinion of who everyone should vote for is more legitimate than everyone else's. :P
Variation on the old I'm not racist, why some of my best friends are x.

Which brings me to the Trumpslaining word of the day

Smokescreen - an action intended to conceal or confuse or obscure;
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Night Hides Not on August 18, 2016, 09:41:49 pm
Zeppelin for me. Not my fault either.

I'm a big fan of Zeppelin, Strange Fruit, and Steel Dragon.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: truth_seeker on August 18, 2016, 09:50:47 pm
Some of my ancestors were here before you white illegal immigrants showed up. Just saying...

What makes you think that I do not have native American ancestry, too ??
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 09:53:33 pm
What makes you think that I do not have native American ancestry, too ??

Well, I don't have anything but Swedish in me, and that doesn't mean I have any less American credentials than you do.

The idea that you have more authority here in this country because of your pedigree belies everything this country stands for.

Your braggadocio reveals your lack of understanding of what this country was founded on.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: flowers on August 18, 2016, 10:03:07 pm
Well, I don't have anything but Swedish in me, and that doesn't mean I have any less American credentials than you do.

The idea that you have more authority here in this country because of your pedigree belies everything this country stands for.

Your braggadocio reveals your lack of understanding of what this country was founded on.
OMG you just crack me up ML  :mauslaff: Where do you get this sh8t from? Thanks I needed a good laugh.  :seeya:
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Fantom on August 18, 2016, 10:12:49 pm

Your braggadocio reveals your lack of understanding of what this country was founded on.

It IS trumpanian though...... Braggadocio. I see why they connect.

Me, I am but a Simple Bricklayer. The second best one evah.. but a Simple Bricklayer non the less.  8888forgot
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: XenaLee on August 18, 2016, 10:20:24 pm
OMG you just crack me up ML  :mauslaff: Where do you get this sh8t from? Thanks I needed a good laugh.  :seeya:

Obviously.....the point she was making whooshed right on over your little head.  But it's nice that you can laugh about it.  It's pretty much 'all' you can do, in fact.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: roamer_1 on August 18, 2016, 10:21:55 pm

Me, I am but a Simple Bricklayer. The second best one evah.. but a Simple Bricklayer non the less.  8888forgot

Ungh... Two things I have endeavored never to do again: Cleaning concrete forms, and haulin' hod. I salute you, but none for me thx...
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Fantom on August 18, 2016, 10:27:39 pm
Ungh... Two things I have endeavored never to do again: Cleaning concrete forms, and haulin' hod. I salute you, but none for me thx...

Five generations , Father to Son, here in America alone. My Son is #6 on this list...probably is child abuse at some point. 
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 10:34:53 pm
OMG you just crack me up ML  :mauslaff: Where do you get this sh8t from? Thanks I needed a good laugh.  :seeya:

I ask again.......... what happened to the flowers who used to use your name?  What happened to the nice person who used to post here?

Where did she go??

(That is a dead serious question, @flowers ).
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 10:36:23 pm
Obviously.....the point she was making whooshed right on over your little head.  But it's nice that you can laugh about it.  It's pretty much 'all' you can do, in fact.

It's not laughter, it's derision.

It's Trump "humor."  It's Obama "humor." It's leftist "humor."  It's devoid of intellect and character.

But you're right.  It's all they have......
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Fantom on August 18, 2016, 10:37:28 pm
I ask again.......... what happened to the flowers who used to use your name?  What happened to the nice person who used to post here?

Where did she go??

(That is a dead serious question, @flowers ).

I'll take.."trump Poisoning" for $500.00
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 10:39:05 pm
It IS trumpanian though...... Braggadocio. I see why they connect.

Me, I am but a Simple Bricklayer. The second best one evah.. but a Simple Bricklayer non the less.  8888forgot

 :beer:


I see that they are connecting with Trump, but what I wonder is, were they all this mean and arrogant before Trump and hid it from us, or has he changed them from nice people to nasty?
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 10:40:58 pm
I'll take.."trump Poisoning" for $500.00

I wish you had known some of these people before they were poisoned.  I had so much in common with them.  The same values for the most part; the ability to carry on civil conversations....

They really have been poisoned by this mad man.

I hope they come back when this election is all over.  I miss the people I thought I knew.....
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: XenaLee on August 18, 2016, 10:43:13 pm
It's not laughter, it's derision.

It's Trump "humor."  It's Obama "humor." It's leftist "humor."  It's devoid of intellect and character.

But you're right.  It's all they have......

And it's the only semblance and/or substitute they ever have for humor....is when they are mocking others...

a la Trump-style....all the way.

I posit that perhaps they were never 'nice people' before Trump.  They just took the easiest path....that being it's much easier to take the low road than to stick to your values, assuming that they ever had any values to stick to.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: XenaLee on August 18, 2016, 10:45:48 pm
I wish you had known some of these people before they were poisoned.  I had so much in common with them.  The same values for the most part; the ability to carry on civil conversations....

They really have been poisoned by this mad man.

I hope they come back when this election is all over.  I miss the people I thought I knew.....

I am sad and dismayed that a friend I've had for 30 years, more like a sister, has now leaped upon the Trump Train because the false prophets Copelands claim he's God's "chosen one" to save America.

Good grief.  How stupid could folks be.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 10:49:27 pm
And it's the only semblance and/or substitute they ever have for humor....is when they are mocking others...

a la Trump-style....all the way.

I posit that perhaps they were never 'nice people' before Trump.  They just took the easiest path....that being it's much easier to take the low road than to stick to your values, assuming that they ever had any values to stick to.

I think some of them did.  I think @flowers did, though I don't really know.

At any rate, I am unfazed by her mockery.  She hasn't posted a decent thing to me in months.  Just nasty derision, and piling on when her bosom buddy posts lies and derision about me.

I just feel badly that she seemingly has turned her back on the values she seemed to have before Trump grabbed her.

It's just sad to see someone go down hill so fast and so far...
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 10:50:57 pm
I am sad and dismayed that a friend I've had for 30 years, more like a sister, has now leaped upon the Trump Train because the false prophets Copelands claim he's God's "chosen one" to save America.

Good grief.  How stupid could folks be.

They have been deceived by a con man.  They aren't the first, and they won't be the last.

It truly is sad to watch it happen though.

I'm sorry you've lost a friend.  No sleazy politician should have that kind of power over a person's soul.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: XenaLee on August 18, 2016, 10:52:00 pm
I think some of them did.  I think @flowers did, though I don't really know.

At any rate, I am unfazed by her mockery.  She hasn't posted a decent thing to me in months.  Just nasty derision, and piling on when her bosom buddy posts lies and derision about me.

I just feel badly that she seemingly has turned her back on the values she seemed to have before Trump grabbed her.

It's just sad to see someone go down hill so fast and so far...

Perhaps they are beginning to suspect, like we have known all along, that they've been "had" by the master con-artist, The Don.  About frickin time, if so.  But the lashing out at those of us that warned them won't help and won't change a damned thing about the impending disaster.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Oceander on August 18, 2016, 10:53:58 pm
There is no moral cowardice in voting your conscience.  Moral cowardice consists of groupthink, and of voting out of fear, or to go along with the in-crowd.

The only moral cowards here are those Trumpkins who say "well, yes, I agree he's a little sh*t, but he's our little sh*t and he's all we've got."  That's moral cowardice.

And BTW, why are Trumpkins so obtuse that they cannot even grasp the old canard that you get more flies with honey than with vinegar?

If you want us to come around to supporting Trump, then you had damned well better start trying to use persuasion, friendly persuasion, and stop using brownshirt intimidation tactics and disparagement.

Go read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and then come back here.  Until then, STFU with your authoritarian nonsense.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: XenaLee on August 18, 2016, 10:54:15 pm
They have been deceived by a con man.  They aren't the first, and they won't be the last.

It truly is sad to watch it happen though.

I'm sorry you've lost a friend.  No sleazy politician should have that kind of power over a person's soul.

And that's the thing.  It's not that I'm losing a friend.  I will probably try to stick by her, nevertheless.  It's the fact that thanks to the frauds like the Copelands, she may be in danger of losing her soul.  That's why Jesus warned about those false prophets in the end days.  I just never thought it would hit someone I knew for that long and that well (or thought I did).
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 10:56:18 pm
Perhaps they are beginning to suspect, like we have known all along, that they've been "had" by the master con-artist, The Don.  About frickin time, if so.  But the lashing out at those of us that warned them won't help and won't change a damned thing about the impending disaster.

You're probably right.  The flailing and increased nastiness is probably partly due to the frustration that they know now that we were right about Trump, and that they were hornswoggled by his snake oil salesmanship, while we weren't.

The anger is definitely mounting, though.  You can feel it....
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Oceander on August 18, 2016, 10:58:30 pm
Perhaps they are beginning to suspect, like we have known all along, that they've been "had" by the master con-artist, The Don.  About frickin time, if so.  But the lashing out at those of us that warned them won't help and won't change a damned thing about the impending disaster.


They won't get it even after he's turned on them and proven how empty all of his promises were.  LIVs think elections are reality TV, and Trumpkins are the epitome of LIVs.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Fantom on August 18, 2016, 11:00:49 pm
I wish you had known some of these people before they were poisoned.  I had so much in common with them.  The same values for the most part; the ability to carry on civil conversations....

They really have been poisoned by this mad man.

I hope they come back when this election is all over.  I miss the people I thought I knew.....

Hopefully right.

My two best friends have succumbed. One is now estranged...by his choice. The other... only by setting aside politics, is this  friendship holding.

It is a maddness they are afflicted with. Even in winning that cannot concentrate on the real opponent..Hillary.  They have trump rabies, instead of hydrophobia... it is Cruzaphobia.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 11:05:26 pm
Hopefully right.

My two best friends have succumbed. One is now estranged...by his choice. The other... only by setting aside politics, is this  friendship holding.

It is a maddness they are afflicted with. Even in winning that cannot concentrate on the real opponent..Hillary.  They have trump rabies, instead of hydrophobia... it is Cruzaphobia.

Yeah........ their hatred for Cruz and fixation on him is weird.  I don't get it.

The only time they talk about Hillary seems to be when they're falsely accusing US of supporting her.

It's all weird...

I expect to see Rod Serling on TV and hear the Twilight Zone theme song.......
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Fantom on August 18, 2016, 11:05:50 pm
They won't get it even after he's turned on them and proven how empty all of his promises were.  LIVs think elections are reality TV, and Trumpkins are the epitome of LIVs.

For the LIVS... the Looser Mullet class.. like the one Ted tried to reason with in Indiana?.. I think. You are correct.

However many are s'posed to know better and act just like the Mullet class.  We both know some.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: libertybele on August 18, 2016, 11:11:31 pm
It's not laughter, it's derision.

It's Trump "humor."  It's Obama "humor." It's leftist "humor."  It's devoid of intellect and character.

But you're right.  It's all they have......

 :amen:  Sad, but so true!
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: libertybele on August 18, 2016, 11:14:47 pm
Enjoy the liberal Supreme Court appointed by Obama=Clinton.

Enjoy diminishing respect in the world, and continued civil disorder under Obama=Clinton.

If Trump/Clinton gets in the outcome will be the same.  Those who vote for Trump/Clinton ARE responsible and no one else!
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 11:15:46 pm
And that's the thing.  It's not that I'm losing a friend.  I will probably try to stick by her, nevertheless.  It's the fact that thanks to the frauds like the Copelands, she may be in danger of losing her soul.  That's why Jesus warned about those false prophets in the end days.  I just never thought it would hit someone I knew for that long and that well (or thought I did).

Satan is clever, and he's ramping up his evil in these last days.   We're going to see more of this in the coming years.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Fantom on August 18, 2016, 11:18:41 pm
Yeah........ their hatred for Cruz and fixation on him is weird.  I don't get it.

The only time they talk about Hillary seems to be when they're falsely accusing US of supporting her.

It's all weird...

I expect to see Rod Serling on TV and hear the Twilight Zone theme song.......

(http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/0e4209da-8195-4b2a-a43c-0427eef4d063/00000306.png) ... Picture yourself in the land of the Demented, a place where reason was eliminated for the Insanity of Deity. Where otherwise sane people have lost all control... mindlessly following...... (http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/53d0ebf1-05b4-431d-80c4-6b2cb59be6df/00000307.png)............ The Trump Zone........ (http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/3b9bdc01-7a97-4bb9-9e24-05ca4006d4f8/00000308.png)
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: roamer_1 on August 18, 2016, 11:21:07 pm
probably is child abuse at some point.

LOL! yeah - that'd be right... Thought I'd take the easy route and build rock and timber walls... Tossin ties and 500 lb rocks around... Kept me from wearing out, I swear...

 888high58888 :beer:
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 18, 2016, 11:41:11 pm
(http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/0e4209da-8195-4b2a-a43c-0427eef4d063/00000306.png) ... Picture yourself in the land of the Demented, a place where reason was eliminated for the Insanity of Deity. Where otherwise sane people have lost all control... mindlessly following...... (http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/53d0ebf1-05b4-431d-80c4-6b2cb59be6df/00000307.png)............ The Trump Zone........ (http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/3b9bdc01-7a97-4bb9-9e24-05ca4006d4f8/00000308.png)

Nice!   :beer:
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: skeeter on August 18, 2016, 11:47:10 pm
Except the Dem base wanted Bernie Sanders, but they're quickly lining up behind Hillary Clinton nonetheless. The Republicans on the other hand can't agree on anything, which is par for the course. Still, to suggest that the base didn't nominate Trump is not consistent with reality. Reality is, Trump won with evangelicals, he won the South, and he won rural Appalachia - these groups are the base, and are consistently conservative. You can't get everything you want in a Presidential candidate, but if you choose to not participate or vote third party, you'll get absolutely nothing.

If Hillary weren't the queen of corruption, or were more moderate like she used to be, I could understand abstention.

Hillary was smart enough not to threaten to primary Sanders and alienate his supporters.

Trump was really, really dumb. Just maybe he's the author of his own popularity problems.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: HonestJohn on August 18, 2016, 11:53:26 pm
Hillary was smart enough not to threaten to primary Sanders and alienate his supporters.

Trump was really, really dumb. Just maybe he's the author of his own popularity problems.

Yep.  Hillary began to pander to his supporters in  the primary.  And when the primaries where over, she didn't stop.  She gave significant control over the Democrat party platform to Bernie in hopes of further cementing his supporters into her general election strategy.

That curried enough favor with Bernie to get his endorsement.

And all that is simple politics.

Which was too much for Trump's YUUUGE (TM) brain.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Dirt for sale on August 19, 2016, 12:09:33 am
If Trump/Clinton gets in the outcome will be the same.  Those who vote for Trump/Clinton ARE responsible and no one else!
This is the reality check i was looking for.   888high58888
Clinton will win without a shadow of doubt, but Trump's biggest difference with hillary is that he is a male. Otherwise they are bosom buddies and practically twins, standing proud for globalism (world communism).
The double think necessary to support the wolf in sheep's clothing would cause a hemmorage in the brain of a thinking person. Idiots have it easy.
At this late stage of the game, your vote serves to legitimize the con game for four more years, and in a legalistic sense you sign off on whatever they may decide to do once in office (never mind what they say).
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: RoosGirl on August 19, 2016, 02:33:15 am
Variation on the old I'm not racist, why some of my best friends are x.


Heard
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: JustPassinThru on August 19, 2016, 05:17:03 am
Fanaticism is never pretty.  No matter the side or the person.

First we had a whole bunch of psychologically-needy people form a cult around a VERY flawed candidate - a political operative and supposed "developer" with no dirt on his hands but a full-and-fast Rolodex.  Huge amount of money and no demonstration how or why.  But his was classic Eric Hoffer - the Angry Gesture; the raised middle finger.

Okay, that's different.  But we saw HOW different when he showed he didn't understand where stand-up ended and slander began.  Or that a run for political office is not a popularity contest; that somewhere along the way, you have to take positions and communicate them.

Didn't matter.  The cultists had their Golden Calf.  And they pushed him forward and cheered, in some cases helped, the stalking-horse gin the vote tally.  And every time the Orange Julius did NOT get his way, we got a tantrum that would make Barry Dunham-Soetoro blush.

They got their way.  With a very loud, very uncouth, rich-from-graft-kickbacks CIPHER.  Stands for NOTHING.

And now for this, we have to endure the threats and the shaming, the claimed moral high ground, by these worshippers of the Golden Calf.  The same supposed Conservatives who were offered a near-ideal candidate, with several strong-but-lesser choices...now THEY try to shame OTHERS into this.

No.  It's the CANDIDATE'S JOB to sell his program.  And this candidate isn't going to be able to sell Smoot-Hawley to informed voters.  He's not going to be able to sell Porkulus II, the MOAR MONEY FOR INFRASTRUCTURE plan, to those of us who remember past last week.  He's not going to get my vote with another round of beating up his strawman, his Emmanuel Goldstein, Cruz.

He has to work for it.  Work HARD; because the nation is in only slightly-less destructive hands should he win.

You trumpies want to talk about MORAL?  The MORAL thing to do would be to demand this slimy loud Tammany errand-boy to STEP DOWN.  No, not some cute "replacement" plan that puts Shrub in there.  Get God the Donald to do it himself.  Step down and let Pence run with it.

Last exit off.  If you don't do it, don't demand it...the coming wreck is on YOUR heads.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 19, 2016, 05:25:34 am
I don't see much "selling" of the candidate, I do see a lot of abusing the "irrelevant" segment of the base.  Why is that?  Why can't the Trump supporters "sell" him to me?  Are his positive attributes that rare?
Because we have already seen through the entire song and dance, and none of that bullsh*t fooled us. Their magazine is empty, they don't have a reload. I suspect Banzai charges with pointy sticks are next.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Suppressed on August 19, 2016, 05:40:37 am
But his was classic Eric Hoffer - the Angry Gesture; the raised middle finger.

Trump's failure to woo Berniebots weakens Hoffer's view somewhat, but I think much is very applicable.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Emjay on August 19, 2016, 06:09:41 am
I see you're still pushing that old slander, AC.  Listen up - I supported John Kasich, in large part because he was the most likely candidate to defeat Clinton,  and create the conditions to effect conservative change.   You, on the other hand, stubbornly have supported the one candidate almost certain to not only lose, but hand the whole damn federal government over to the Dems.

You reap what you sow, AC.   Stop whining over those of us who won't drink the Kool-Aid.

Exactly !!  The trumpers were dancing with delight as they managed to push their hero over the finish line.

They would not see reason, would not see their candidate for who he was and gave us the only person in the known universe who is sure to lose to Hillary.

There is not a one of the other candidates in the original 17 who could not beat Hillary.  Not one.

So, don't blame us, trumpers, the blame rests firmly upon your righteous selves.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 19, 2016, 06:44:58 am
Fanaticism is never pretty.  No matter the side or the person.

First we had a whole bunch of psychologically-needy people form a cult around a VERY flawed candidate - a political operative and supposed "developer" with no dirt on his hands but a full-and-fast Rolodex.  Huge amount of money and no demonstration how or why.  But his was classic Eric Hoffer - the Angry Gesture; the raised middle finger.

Okay, that's different.  But we saw HOW different when he showed he didn't understand where stand-up ended and slander began.  Or that a run for political office is not a popularity contest; that somewhere along the way, you have to take positions and communicate them.

Didn't matter.  The cultists had their Golden Calf.  And they pushed him forward and cheered, in some cases helped, the stalking-horse gin the vote tally.  And every time the Orange Julius did NOT get his way, we got a tantrum that would make Barry Dunham-Soetoro blush.

They got their way.  With a very loud, very uncouth, rich-from-graft-kickbacks CIPHER.  Stands for NOTHING.

And now for this, we have to endure the threats and the shaming, the claimed moral high ground, by these worshippers of the Golden Calf.  The same supposed Conservatives who were offered a near-ideal candidate, with several strong-but-lesser choices...now THEY try to shame OTHERS into this.

No.  It's the CANDIDATE'S JOB to sell his program.  And this candidate isn't going to be able to sell Smoot-Hawley to informed voters.  He's not going to be able to sell Porkulus II, the MOAR MONEY FOR INFRASTRUCTURE plan, to those of us who remember past last week.  He's not going to get my vote with another round of beating up his strawman, his Emmanuel Goldstein, Cruz.

He has to work for it.  Work HARD; because the nation is in only slightly-less destructive hands should he win.

You trumpies want to talk about MORAL?  The MORAL thing to do would be to demand this slimy loud Tammany errand-boy to STEP DOWN.  No, not some cute "replacement" plan that puts Shrub in there.  Get God the Donald to do it himself.  Step down and let Pence run with it.

Last exit off.  If you don't do it, don't demand it...the coming wreck is on YOUR heads.
:hands: :hands: :hands: :hands: :hands:

There is no moral cowardice in going against the flow for principles. In fighting the good fight, in being unmoved despite the verbal brickbats and insinuations of everything from cowardice to treason for not supporting that which is simply wrong. Against such an assault there is no cowardice in standing your ground. Despite the accusations of cowardice, I am still here.

Which poster here who refuses to support Trump has not suffered these indignities, even threats in other venues, yet will not hold the line? If cowards be found, they will be found among those who pressed that blowhard into service out of FEAR of his inevitable opponent, who lack the moral courage to admit their mistake, who yet try to blame those of us who told them they were wrong.

Let them drink their own vitriol, or better yet turn it upon their claimed enemy, and fight the fight they have chosen rather than waste it upon us.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: CSM on August 19, 2016, 12:40:27 pm
Is that how you'd have voted in the 1932... in Europe.

I suspect that it would be the same.  I used to wonder how the people allowed a Nationalist Socialist to rise to power.  We all know that leads to tyranny.....

I don't have to "wonder" anymore.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: CSM on August 19, 2016, 01:21:06 pm
Unfortunately,  there are few Republicans of any stripe anymore who are willing to be budget hawks.   That's the kind of old-school conservatism that isn't in style anymore.   The only candidate this year who had a track record as a budget hawk was John Kasich, and I'm proud to say I supported him.   

Hahaha, "John Kasich is a budget hawk!"  good one!  His over stepping his Legislature to expand medicare as support of Obamacare is not what budget hawks do.  But, OH will get that "free money" from the Feds for a couple of years...and then after he leaves office, the Feds will stop that free gravy and then OH will have a financial crisis.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: chae on August 19, 2016, 01:47:20 pm
Anyone saying "Vote for the lesser of two evils" needs to stop saying "God bless America."  God will never bless evil, regardless of whatever you tell yourself to justify your actions.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Wingnut on August 19, 2016, 01:48:40 pm
(http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/0e4209da-8195-4b2a-a43c-0427eef4d063/00000306.png) ... Picture yourself in the land of the Demented, a place where reason was eliminated for the Insanity of Deity. Where otherwise sane people have lost all control... mindlessly following...... (http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/53d0ebf1-05b4-431d-80c4-6b2cb59be6df/00000307.png)............ The Trump Zone........ (http://content.screencast.com/users/Fantomou/folders/Jing/media/3b9bdc01-7a97-4bb9-9e24-05ca4006d4f8/00000308.png)

Clever! 
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: ExFreeper on August 19, 2016, 02:30:49 pm
I expect to see Rod Serling on TV and hear the Twilight Zone theme song.......

You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 19, 2016, 02:38:33 pm
You unlock this door with the key of imagination. Beyond it is another dimension - a dimension of sound, a dimension of sight, a dimension of mind. You're moving into a land of both shadow and substance, of things and ideas. You've just crossed over into the Twilight Zone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

LOL!  That's it!

And just think, now we're living it!
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Jazzhead on August 19, 2016, 05:58:33 pm
Hillary was smart enough not to threaten to primary Sanders and alienate his supporters.

Trump was really, really dumb. Just maybe he's the author of his own popularity problems.

Correct.  Hillary's made moves to reconcile with her primary opponents,  Trump just doubles down on his insults and disrespect.  His latest staff shakeup is a clear repudiation of us Republicans who've urged such reconciliation,  and for him to conduct his campaign in a rational and coherent manner. 

Fear of Clinton just isn't enough to convince me and millions like me to vote for this self-centered jerk.   
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: txradioguy on August 19, 2016, 06:35:46 pm
Opposing fascism isn't moral cowardice; to the contrary, it's a moral imperative.

QFT
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: txradioguy on August 19, 2016, 06:37:07 pm
I find it quite humorous to be told I'm a "moral coward" by someone who is backing a candidate who has no morals or moral compass guiding him in the first place.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Fantom on August 19, 2016, 10:30:47 pm
Fanaticism is never pretty.  No matter the side or the person.

First we had a whole bunch of psychologically-needy people form a cult around a VERY flawed candidate - a political operative and supposed "developer" with no dirt on his hands but a full-and-fast Rolodex.  Huge amount of money and no demonstration how or why.  But his was classic Eric Hoffer - the Angry Gesture; the raised middle finger.

Okay, that's different.  But we saw HOW different when he showed he didn't understand where stand-up ended and slander began.  Or that a run for political office is not a popularity contest; that somewhere along the way, you have to take positions and communicate them.

Didn't matter.  The cultists had their Golden Calf.  And they pushed him forward and cheered, in some cases helped, the stalking-horse gin the vote tally.  And every time the Orange Julius did NOT get his way, we got a tantrum that would make Barry Dunham-Soetoro blush.

They got their way.  With a very loud, very uncouth, rich-from-graft-kickbacks CIPHER.  Stands for NOTHING.

And now for this, we have to endure the threats and the shaming, the claimed moral high ground, by these worshippers of the Golden Calf.  The same supposed Conservatives who were offered a near-ideal candidate, with several strong-but-lesser choices...now THEY try to shame OTHERS into this.

No.  It's the CANDIDATE'S JOB to sell his program.  And this candidate isn't going to be able to sell Smoot-Hawley to informed voters.  He's not going to be able to sell Porkulus II, the MOAR MONEY FOR INFRASTRUCTURE plan, to those of us who remember past last week.  He's not going to get my vote with another round of beating up his strawman, his Emmanuel Goldstein, Cruz.

He has to work for it.  Work HARD; because the nation is in only slightly-less destructive hands should he win.

You trumpies want to talk about MORAL?  The MORAL thing to do would be to demand this slimy loud Tammany errand-boy to STEP DOWN.  No, not some cute "replacement" plan that puts Shrub in there.  Get God the Donald to do it himself.  Step down and let Pence run with it.

Last exit off.  If you don't do it, don't demand it...the coming wreck is on YOUR heads.

Well said...well said.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: EasyAce on August 20, 2016, 05:54:03 am
Yeah........ their hatred for Cruz and fixation on him is weird.  I don't get it.

The only time they talk about Hillary seems to be when they're falsely accusing US of supporting her.

It's all weird...

I expect to see Rod Serling on TV and hear the Twilight Zone theme song.......

Serling, Schmerling, I was expecting . . .

The Outer Limits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCcdr4O-3gE)
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: kartographer on August 20, 2016, 06:09:10 am
Considering the freaks running I was think more of:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hdAIy2Wd9Fg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 20, 2016, 06:29:11 am
Considering the freaks running I was think more of:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/hdAIy2Wd9Fg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Pretty close...

(I loved that show)
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: EasyAce on August 20, 2016, 06:34:50 am
Considering the freaks running I was think more of:

MST3K (http://www.youtube.com/embed/hdAIy2Wd9Fg)

There's one big difference.

MST3K was funny as hell.

Donaldus Minimus and Hilarious Rodent Clinton are about as funny as screen doors on submarines.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Emjay on August 20, 2016, 07:03:01 am
:beer:


I see that they are connecting with Trump, but what I wonder is, were they all this mean and arrogant before Trump and hid it from us, or has he changed them from nice people to nasty?

Good question and I've wondered about that a lot.  I've seen people I used to respect on FR turn into vicious monsters who not only accept every sleazy, crooked and morally corrupt thing Trump does but throw venom upon anyone who disagrees.

Did he change them completely or did they have that core of nastiness within them just waiting to be released by Trump worship?
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Sighlass on August 20, 2016, 07:25:37 am
Anyone saying "Vote for the lesser of two evils" needs to stop saying "God bless America."  God will never bless evil, regardless of whatever you tell yourself to justify your actions.

Thanks Chae, exactly how I feel. Sometimes I think am one of the few social conservatives left in America and when I run across posts like yours my heart delights.

  :seeya: :beer: :seeya:
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: Hoodat on August 20, 2016, 07:30:00 am
For the sake of argument, let’s stipulate that Donald Trump is what the small but obsessive, increasingly deracinated, band of “never Trumpers” says he is.  He’s not a “movement conservative” – true.   He’s often crass and vulgar – true.  His quasi-grammatical flights of oratorical fancy often get him into trouble –also true.  .  .  .

Okay.  Therefore… what?

You failed to mention the most important one of all.  Trump is a big-government liberal.

As for Hillary, you knew up front that of the 17 GOP candidates, the only one who couldn't beat Hillary is the same one that her husband persuaded to run.

You knew up front that Trump was an enemy of the 2nd Amendment.
You knew up front that Trump supported government funding for abortion clinics.
You knew up front that Trump stood by the fascist principle that property rights belonged to the government.
You knew up front that Trump was a Democrat.

You knew.  You knew it all.  But just because you have made your bed, doesn't mean that I can be persuaded to lie in it with you.

For the umpteenth time, I don't vote for NY liberals.
Title: Re: The Moral Cowardice of the NeverTrumpumpkins
Post by: musiclady on August 20, 2016, 01:09:59 pm
Thanks Chae, exactly how I feel. Sometimes I think am one of the few social conservatives left in America and when I run across posts like yours my heart delights.

  :seeya: :beer: :seeya:

We're out here.  I just think we're a shrinking minority, but we're still here.

Always good to meet a fellow traveler!   :patriot: