The Briefing Room
General Category => Sports/Entertainment/MSM/Social Media => Shooting Sports => Topic started by: Elderberry on April 21, 2018, 01:10:53 pm
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GETZONE Caleb Giddings; Originally published in the February 2015 issue of GunUp the Magazine.
There are better choices for concealed carry than a wheelgun. Semi-automatic pistols are easier to shoot, easier to reload, and easier to manipulate. I am a huge revolver fanboy, but I’m also honest with the fact that a round-gun is not going to be optimal for most people. But if you are going to build a defensive revolver for carry, then here are a few things you must have.
The Modern Defensive Revolver has to be a gun that you’re going to actually carry, and is actually shootable enough that you’ll train with it. So, for starters it can’t be a flyweight micro-gun. The Ruger LCRs and Smith & Wesson Airweights are great guns, but they’re not in the niche of what we’re looking for here because you’re not going to take a 500-round class with a Scandium J-Frame. So, the first criteria of a Modern Defensive Revolver is this:
It must be comfortable to shoot with defensive .38 Special ammo
The bottom end of guns that are comfortable to shoot with full house .38 +P loads are the all-steel small guns like the Ruger SP101 or the steel J-Frames such as a the 640 Pro Series.
The reason that we want an MDR to be a bit heavier than the airweight guns its because we’re not viewing this gun as a backup; the modern defensive revolver is your primary carry gun. Because it’s your primary, you should train and practice with it. That brings us to the next criteria for a Modern Defensive Revolver.
It must have good sights
The traditional revolver gutter rear sight with a black front post is fine for shooting paper on a well lit range, but it’s not ideal for shooting smelly badguys in the face at 2am. The gun should have some kind of illuminated sights; while night sights are the best choice, I’d be willing to accept fiber optic or gold bead sights as well. Something that allows you to have a shot (ha) at target acquisition in low-light. Which brings us to the third criteria.
More: https://www.getzone.com/modern-defensive-revolver/?trk_msg=DU38I51CE9E4FCLRS4VASB6N20&trk_contact=ETNB2UCT0H9MK2KQU3QF4VNU5C&trk_sid=SM3MG4UROLUKHNAJ2LA15UV9VK (https://www.getzone.com/modern-defensive-revolver/?trk_msg=DU38I51CE9E4FCLRS4VASB6N20&trk_contact=ETNB2UCT0H9MK2KQU3QF4VNU5C&trk_sid=SM3MG4UROLUKHNAJ2LA15UV9VK)
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@Elderberry
I have one of the three he recommended - Ruger LCR, 38+P special, hidden hammer, isn't going to catch on anything when pulled from purse. Easily fits in my purse that has a place for it. It has a red laser so I don't miss. Hollow point cartridges. He lists it as:
"Ruger LCR in .38 Special: Add Crimson Trace Laser Grip and XS Big Dot front sight."
Hand weapons have a mental part - don't draw it unless you are for sure ready to fire it. Don't assume the target person is going to be scared of your gun and run away.
There is one weapon that might cause someone to flee and that is a shotgun when it is "racked". That sound means don't be in front of that weapon or you are going to be dead. Bad guys know a shotgun is going to splatter them apart. I have a Remington shotgun and slug cartridges. I also have a long rifle used in the civil war, in excellent condition. It is so heavy I don't know how guys lifted it to fire it.
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I'm looking for something just as powerful as the 9mm I have, but a lighter (or smaller) 9mm to carry in my purse (purse has a middle zipped pouch). The one I have is getting a bit hefty to haul around lately....lol.
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LCR in 327 federal magnum. Shoot 32 S&W long for plinking, 327 magnum when you mean it. Sweet shooting little revolver if you must have a wheel gun.
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I'm looking for something just as powerful as the 9mm I have, but a lighter (or smaller) 9mm to carry in my purse (purse has a middle zipped pouch). The one I have is getting a bit hefty to haul around lately....lol.
@XenaLee
If you changed to a 38 Special Air-Weight revolver, the drop in weight would be considerable. There would be some loss in energy.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm)
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I'm looking for something just as powerful as the 9mm I have, but a lighter (or smaller) 9mm to carry in my purse (purse has a middle zipped pouch). The one I have is getting a bit hefty to haul around lately....lol.
@XenaLee
I'll bet you would LOVE one of these!
https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p938-select-micro-compact.html (https://www.sigsauer.com/store/p938-select-micro-compact.html)
But you must always remember that if you are carrying a 9mm with a less than 4" barrel there is only one real ammo choice. Federal HST.
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lGqdMdbir0#)
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My son has a Sig sub compact 9mm. I just love that gun! Must be the 938, I just don't remember the model#
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If you changed to a 38 Special Air-Weight revolver, the drop in weight would be considerable. There would be some loss in energy.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm)
Oooh...you know, I think I had seen that Bersa Thunder before and considered it a great option to try but I had forgotten the name of it. Thanks!!!
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My son has a Sig sub compact 9mm. I just love that gun! Must be the 938, I just don't remember the model#
I really like the looks of that P290... and it's only 20.5 oz!
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/10/28/new-sig-p290-sub-compact-9mm/ (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/10/28/new-sig-p290-sub-compact-9mm/)
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If you changed to a 38 Special Air-Weight revolver, the drop in weight would be considerable. There would be some loss in energy.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm)
There would also be a big increase in snappiness. That is not a gun that most people like to shoot, especially newbs.
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There would also be a big increase in snappiness. That is not a gun that most people like to shoot, especially newbs.
She could always go with a Browning, but this is a revolver thread.
(https://picturearchive.gunauction.com/548382/7928806/23fa88b0b2e9c8bdb583653b3e32356e.jpg)
How about a 22 Mini-Mag?
(https://northamericanarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/p-778-22ms_2.jpg)
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She could always go with a Browning, but this is a revolver thread.
Yeah, there's the rub. That's why I mentioned the 327. In my experience it is the only little revolver that folks sorta like to shoot and can reasonably keep on target especially when loaded with the 32 S&W. (Insert gratuitious 1911 superiority comment here).
Good shootin' to ya...
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I've always been interested in .32 revolvers. Looking at the 327 LCR, its the same size, weight, and price as the .357. With that 357, if you're not a reloader, you still have the full range of power, from wadcutter 38 target loads, to full power 357 Ammo. And 327 and 32 S&W ammo is running twice the price of 38 and 357 ammo, on average.
I always wanted a Ruger Single-Six chambered in 32 H&R. My only 32s are a CZ70 and a Kel Tec P32.
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My only 32s are a CZ70 and a Kel Tec P32.
CZ70! If i had the patience to find the "drooling" smiley it would be right here. I recently got an 82 that I pretty much love and I can only imagine that the 32 cal is at least as lovely if not better as a pure shooter.
Sorry to derail the revolver thread but I couldn't help myself.
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Collector's Firearms had several CZ83s in 32 ACP, but they all got snatched up. I picked up one in 380. I'm still looking for one in 32. I also have a CZ52 and a CZ75.
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I've got the Rock Island Armory M203 and it's my summertime carry. Direct copy of the old Detective Special and current Colt Cobra. A little hefty but it's a six shot and tucks away better than my 1911 or my P320 when I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt.
The only thing I can ding this revolver for is the sights. But I'm working on a fix for that.
My wife's pride and joy is her SP101 in .357 magnum. She decided early on she wanted a revolver to start with when we both began shooting two years ago. "I don't want a girlie gun" is what she told me. She's got a concealed carry purse she uses with her Ruger and it goes with her all the time sometimes even to work...but she has to leave it in the car.
I think the 5 or six shot revolver will make a comeback at some point due to the fact that the gun grabbers seem to have it out for semi-automatic pistols and magazines with a capacity greater than 10...the appeal of a firearm self defense that has at least the capacity of a sub compact semi automatic for a good price will help those that want to defend themselves in states that are unfriendly to gun owners continue to be able to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights.
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I'm looking for something just as powerful as the 9mm I have, but a lighter (or smaller) 9mm to carry in my purse (purse has a middle zipped pouch). The one I have is getting a bit hefty to haul around lately....lol.
@XenaLee
If you want semi auto...Sig has a new pistol out you should look at...the P365.
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I've got the Rock Island Armory M203 and it's my summertime carry....
M203 for carry? Man you must wear some baggy pants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher
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M203 for carry? Man you must wear some baggy pants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher
:silly:
Nah just a very strong belt.
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It must be comfortable to shoot with defensive .38 Special ammo
Say WHAT? You can't shoot 38 Special ammunition in 44 Special revolvers. I thought everybody knew that?
And anybody that buys and carries a 38 Special when they have the option of buying and carrying a 44 Special revolver is a fool.
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I'm looking for something just as powerful as the 9mm I have, but a lighter (or smaller) 9mm to carry in my purse (purse has a middle zipped pouch). The one I have is getting a bit hefty to haul around lately....lol.
It would be helpful to know what you have now so we know where the upper limit begins.
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LCR in 327 federal magnum. Shoot 32 S&W long for plinking, 327 magnum when you mean it. Sweet shooting little revolver if you must have a wheel gun.
You are going the wrong way. You are not hunting thick-skinned game that is off in the distance. What you want is a big,heavy bullet at moderate velocity that doesn't over-penetrate. With big,heavy bullets,you don't need high velocity.
Think 44 Special with a 3 inch barrel for most people,or 45 Long Colt with a 4.5 or 5 inch barrel if concealment is not a problem.
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If you changed to a 38 Special Air-Weight revolver, the drop in weight would be considerable. There would be some loss in energy.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm)
You would GAIN in energy if you used 148 grain hollowbase swagged wadcutters. 9MM's rely on velocity to deliver their punch because of the light bullet weight. Most 9MM rounds tend to pass right through most bodies without slowing down a whole lot unless they hit bone.
If you reload,you can load the hollow base swagged wadcutters backwards for more "ummmph" when they hit. I loaded up a bunch this way over a load of Unique that I will NOT mention for several of the office women I worked with when I was condemned to work in an office in Denver. They found out I knew about guns and were interested in a home defense gun,so I fixed them up. Swagged bullets are soft and unlikely to over-penetrate,but even at 800 fps or so,they definitely expand. IIRC,my test loads were expanding to 68 to 72 caliber when fired into sand. Good loads for social interactions,but NOT the loads for a carry guy if you think you might be shooting in a car. For that you would want cast bullets or jacketed bullets.
Mo betta in 44 Special,though. No,I am NOT a sporting gentleman.
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There would also be a big increase in snappiness. That is not a gun that most people like to shoot, especially newbs.
It's not made for Plus P ammo,so why would you shoot it in a airweight?
Screw the hyper-velocity light-weight bullets. Go for the 140 to 158 grain wadcutters at standard velocity in a 38. If you want high-velocity,sell the 38 and buy a 357 Magnum.
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She could always go with a Browning, but this is a revolver thread.
(https://picturearchive.gunauction.com/548382/7928806/23fa88b0b2e9c8bdb583653b3e32356e.jpg)
How about a 22 Mini-Mag?
(https://northamericanarms.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/p-778-22ms_2.jpg)
The little mini-revolvers are neat,but I sure would hate to try to pull one,get a grip on it,and then cock the hammer and fire it in an emergency.
Forget the mini semi-autos. They are all striker-fired,and unsafe to carry with a round in the chamber. Like the mini-revolver,they are also hard to grip and load in an emergency because they are so tiny,and because you would be in panic-mode. Also,I NEVER recommend a semi-auto for someone new to guns because no matter how many times they will lie about it,they are scared of the gun and will refuse to carry it with a round in the chamber. If you need a gun,you need a gun NOW,and "NOW" is not the time to be fumbling with it while trying to pull back the slide and load it.
Revolvers are the original "point and click" devices.
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With that 357, if you're not a reloader, you still have the full range of power, from wadcutter 38 target loads, to full power 357 Ammo. And 327 and 32 S&W ammo is running twice the price of 38 and 357 ammo, on average.
It has been a LONG time since I have bought a box of ammo,and even longer since I bought reloading equipment,but I suspect you can set yourself up to reload 38 Special and 357 Magnum rounds for less than 4 boxes of factory ammo would cost you. The expensive component is the brass case,and you can use them over and over for a long time if you are careful with the loads and measure the cases for expansion.
I used to shoot a LOT of 45ACP loads,and generally speaking always kept a minimum of 500 loaded rounds ready to go,and another 500 or so in one stage or the other of the process of being reloaded. Even with reloading a number that high,I paid less than 100 bucks for the Lee Turret Press I used.
Reloading is simple. The only thing you really need to remember is do NOT get adventurous with your powder loads unless you are a a qualified gunsmith and completely understand the design and manufacturing of the weapon you are shooting to the point where you know you aren't taking any risks,and do NOT take specific load tips from people you don't know.
If you are even the tiniest bit anal,reloading and bench rest shooting ARE the sports made for you!
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M203 for carry? Man you must wear some baggy pants:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M203_grenade_launcher
LOL! I don't think he is talking about THAT M203,but there can be very little doubt about it being effective for self-defense.
The 40mm grenades make your pockets bulge,though.
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The little mini-revolvers are neat,but I sure would hate to try to pull one,get a grip on it,and then cock the hammer and fire it in an emergency.
Forget the mini semi-autos. They are all striker-fired,and unsafe to carry with a round in the chamber. Like the mini-revolver,they are also hard to grip and load in an emergency because they are so tiny,and because you would be in panic-mode. Also,I NEVER recommend a semi-auto for someone new to guns because no matter how many times they will lie about it,they are scared of the gun and will refuse to carry it with a round in the chamber. If you need a gun,you need a gun NOW,and "NOW" is not the time to be fumbling with it while trying to pull back the slide and load it.
Revolvers are the original "point and click" devices.
What makes you think a striker fired pistol is unsafe to carry with a round chambered? I do it all the time.
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What makes you think a striker fired pistol is unsafe to carry with a round chambered? I do it all the time.
Absolutely - I do, too. My Springfield XD-9 has a grip safety, an articulated trigger and an internal striker block. It is intended to be carried with one up the pipe.
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What makes you think a striker fired pistol is unsafe to carry with a round chambered? I do it all the time.
I think that because I am a former gunsmith and have seen the damn things "machine gun" from worn sears. There you are,thinking you are going to load it,and suddenly the damn thing is emptying the magazine. Luckily for me it was the owner that brought it to me for repair that got this surprise,not me.
Like everything else in life,price is an indicator of quality,and expensive striker-fired guns are made from better materials than cheap striker-fired weapons,and there are a LOT more really cheap striker-fired 25 ACP and 32 ACP semi-autos out there than there are quality ones. It doesn't matter to me,I still won't even own one,never mind carry one.
EVERY handgun I own and carry has a hammer. Some don't have safeties,like my DAO autoloaders,but the hard trigger pull is all the safety they need and it has been my experience that when you REALLY need a gun you won't even notice minor things like heavy trigger pulls.
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Say WHAT? You can't shoot 38 Special ammunition in 44 Special revolvers. I thought everybody knew that?
And anybody that buys and carries a 38 Special when they have the option of buying and carrying a 44 Special revolver is a fool.
That was Caleb Giddings words from the article, not mine.
I have always wanted a 44 special.
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I think that because I am a former gunsmith and have seen the damn things "machine gun" from worn sears. There you are,thinking you are going to load it,and suddenly the damn thing is emptying the magazine. Luckily for me it was the owner that brought it to me for repair that got this surprise,not me.
Like everything else in life,price is an indicator of quality,and expensive striker-fired guns are made from better materials than cheap striker-fired weapons,and there are a LOT more really cheap striker-fired 25 ACP and 32 ACP semi-autos out there than there are quality ones. It doesn't matter to me,I still won't even own one,never mind carry one.
EVERY handgun I own and carry has a hammer. Some don't have safeties,like my DAO autoloaders,but the hard trigger pull is all the safety they need and it has been my experience that when you REALLY need a gun you won't even notice minor things like heavy trigger pulls.
My every day carry gun is a Springfield XDS which is striker fired and I have no worries at all about anything like that ever happening with that fine weapon.
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That was Caleb Giddings words from the article, not mine.
I have always wanted a 44 special.
And if you ever buy one,you will discover why you always wanted one. I had bad luck with a early Charter Arms lightweight,but I understand they are much better made these days. The one I had was a first year production,and it shot "loose" after just a couple of hundred rounds. No big deal if you buy a gun to carry,but I also liked to shoot them back then.
My "go to" gun now when going to town is either my stainless steel 44 Special Taurus single action only with no rear sight and 3 inch barrels,or one of the custom 1911's I built for my own amusement and use. I have a old steel combat commander I rebuilt for my special handloads that functions perfectly with them,but won't even cycle far enough to jam shooing GI Ball ammo. Shoot that ammo in a stock 1911,and you can actually HEAR the slide hit the stops when it cycles. It recoils no more than a standard 1911,and is scary accurate. This is the one I carry when going to some towns/cities.
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Forget the mini semi-autos. They are all striker-fired,and unsafe to carry with a round in the chamber.
How tiny does it need to be to be called a mini? There are several small hammer fired guns. My son has a small 9mm Sig. I was totally impressed how accurate it is with that short sight radius.
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It has been a LONG time since I have bought a box of ammo,and even longer since I bought reloading equipment,but I suspect you can set yourself up to reload 38 Special and 357 Magnum rounds for less than 4 boxes of factory ammo would cost you. The expensive component is the brass case,and you can use them over and over for a long time if you are careful with the loads and measure the cases for expansion.
I used to shoot a LOT of 45ACP loads,and generally speaking always kept a minimum of 500 loaded rounds ready to go,and another 500 or so in one stage or the other of the process of being reloaded. Even with reloading a number that high,I paid less than 100 bucks for the Lee Turret Press I used.
Reloading is simple. The only thing you really need to remember is do NOT get adventurous with your powder loads unless you are a a qualified gunsmith and completely understand the design and manufacturing of the weapon you are shooting to the point where you know you aren't taking any risks,and do NOT take specific load tips from people you don't know.
If you are even the tiniest bit anal,reloading and bench rest shooting ARE the sports made for you!
When I served on the Lex out of Pensacola, I would try to shoot my 38 around a box a week. I had an RCBS Jr. press and a Knee Mount for it. I had an undersize(no swaging needed) bullet mold 154 gr Keith style. I picked up a RCBS Lil Dandy powder dropper and one rotor(3.2gr Bullseye). After every shoot at one of the many sand pits, I'd collect as many bullets I could, that the rain brings to the surface. I'd cast them up and lube them, cookie cutter style. My most expensive component was primers, I was buying 1,000 a pop. I was loading for cheaper than you could buy 22 shells back in the 70's.
The Lex pulled into Houston for liberty once. My mom was going to sell the house, so I loaded all my remaining reloading supplies into my bunk. I also had my grandfather's blackjack and knuckles in my bunk. Well on the way back to Pensacola, we had a bunk inspection. Master Chief saw what was in my rack and just shook his head and told me to get it all off the ship. Whew!
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@XenaLee
If you want semi auto...Sig has a new pistol out you should look at...the P365.
Ok, thanks. I'm looking for something lighter (weight wise) but just as powerful (9mm). I'll check it out.
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Ok, thanks. I'm looking for something lighter (weight wise) but just as powerful (9mm). I'll check it out.
@XenaLee
The little Sig I linked to up thread IS a 9mm and weighs 1 pound unloaded.
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If you changed to a 38 Special Air-Weight revolver, the drop in weight would be considerable. There would be some loss in energy.
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm (http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/9mm%20vs%2038%20Special.htm)
I already have a nice 38 that was my dad's. I use it for home defense, along with the Judge. I was really looking to get another 9mm....a lighter one to carry when out of the house.... and possibly then sell my PT-111 if or when I do find a lighter one. I like the idea of having more than 6 rounds available, if needed. I know, I know....if it ever happens that I need to use it, it probably won't matter that I have 4+ more rounds.... but it's a comfort to know it's there anyway.
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@XenaLee
The little Sig I linked to up thread IS a 9mm and weighs 1 pound unloaded.
I know, Bigun.... and I am going to check that out. Thanks!
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I know, Bigun.... and I am going to check that out. Thanks!
6 ozs lighter than your PT111.
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6 ozs lighter than your PT111.
Super. That damn PT111 is getting heavier and heavier, it seems. lolol
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Super. That damn PT111 is getting heavier and heavier, it seems. lolol
You will give up some mag capacity and that will make it even lighter when fully loaded.
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Ok, thanks. I'm looking for something lighter (weight wise) but just as powerful (9mm). I'll check it out.
The 365 is new. Same dimensions as a Glock 43 but gives you the option of carrying 10+1 or 12+1. Comes stock with night sights too.
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The 365 is new. Same dimensions as a Glock 43 but gives you the option of carrying 10+1 or 12+1. Comes stock with night sights too.
Super....although I doubt that I would need the night sights...lol.
Thanks!!!
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I'm partial to this one:
(http://www.alloutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/shiny-12-gauge-revolver-2.jpg)
Will get me to my combat rifle quicker by making a nice path in front of me.
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How tiny does it need to be to be called a mini? There are several small hammer fired guns. My son has a small 9mm Sig. I was totally impressed how accurate it is with that short sight radius.
I am unfamiliar with that particular SIG,but given their reputation for engineering and quality,I am inclined to give it a pass.
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When I served on the Lex out of Pensacola, I would try to shoot my 38 around a box a week. I had an RCBS Jr. press and a Knee Mount for it. I had an undersize(no swaging needed) bullet mold 154 gr Keith style. I picked up a RCBS Lil Dandy powder dropper and one rotor(3.2gr Bullseye). After every shoot at one of the many sand pits, I'd collect as many bullets I could, that the rain brings to the surface. I'd cast them up and lube them, cookie cutter style. My most expensive component was primers, I was buying 1,000 a pop. I was loading for cheaper than you could buy 22 shells back in the 70's.
The Lex pulled into Houston for liberty once. My mom was going to sell the house, so I loaded all my remaining reloading supplies into my bunk. I also had my grandfather's blackjack and knuckles in my bunk. Well on the way back to Pensacola, we had a bunk inspection. Master Chief saw what was in my rack and just shook his head and told me to get it all off the ship. Whew!
You can load quality ammo as well with the inexpensive equipment you were using as you can with the most expensive units made. I have never heard of anyone having problems with RCBS equipment. Being cheap,I tend to buy Lee dies,but I also have a bunch of RCBS dies. One of my old gun shop habits was to pick up cheap used die sets at gunshops. Especially for the obscure calibers. You can buy them so cheap it really doesn't matter if you ever use them or not.
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I use Wilson in-line dies for my Grendel and Lapua. I still use my RCBS JR for all my others, except for what my son can run on his Dillon. I was given a RCBS Rockchucker, but I gave it to my son. I still use the JR.