The Briefing Room
State Chapters => State Politics/Government => Topic started by: corbe on July 09, 2021, 06:00:01 pm
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Charlottesville to take down Robert E. Lee statue on Saturday
BY CAROLINE VAKIL - 07/09/21 01:38 PM EDT
(https://www.bing.com/images/blob?bcid=TkfWnIvFZfYCKw)
© Getty
The city of Charlottesville, Va., on Friday said it plans to remove two bronze statues of Confederate soldiers on Saturday, including one of Robert E. Lee that was at the site of the violent “Unite the Right” rally in 2017.
A second statue -- one of Confederate general Thomas J. “Stonewall” Jackson -- will also be removed, according to a news release from the city.
<..snip..>
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/562286-charlottesville-to-take-down-robert-e-lee-statue-on-saturday (https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/562286-charlottesville-to-take-down-robert-e-lee-statue-on-saturday)
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A direct result of all the yankees that have fled the north for cheaper living down south,who brought their mindset with them.
It should be illegal to allow Yankees to immigate to America.
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A direct result of all the yankees that have fled the north for cheaper living down south,who brought their mindset with them.
It should be illegal to allow Yankees to immigate to America.
I'll play Devil's Advocate....Who decided to put the statue up in the first place? Did the blacks living there have a say? Personally I don't care for statues being taken down, but this is a point that the people who oppose these statues always mention, and I really don't know how to counter it.
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All the statues that Antifa and BLM are tearing down ...
They are all Democrats.
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I'll play Devil's Advocate....Who decided to put the statue up in the first place? Did the blacks living there have a say? Personally I don't care for statues being taken down, but this is a point that the people who oppose these statues always mention, and I really don't know how to counter it.
I don't like the statues being taken down either, but it's up to the local taxpayers. If the majority (without regard to race) makes clear that it wants a statue removed, then the statue should be removed.
Government is the servant of the citizen. I might not agree with the citizens, but I don't live there so it's not my call.
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When is the statue of Robert Byrd or that hideous statue of Nancy Pelosi going to be 'town down'?
If you think this is NOT all about Democrat subterfuge, then you deserve to be ruled by them.
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I'll play Devil's Advocate....Who decided to put the statue up in the first place?
@dfwgator
The original citizens of Charlottesville,who lost family and friends in the War of Northern Oppression.
Did the blacks living there have a say?
Even though there are Black Confederate graveyards in several southern states,INCLUDING Virginia,that is irrelevant because the only blacks that could vote at the time were free blacks. Besides,that was then,and this is now.
Back then it was lifelong residents of Charlottesville,Viriginia voting to put up the statues,and raising the money to do so.
Today it is Yankee carpetbaggers once again trying to destroy not only southern culture and statehood,but the our entire way of life.
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I don't like the statues being taken down either, but it's up to the local taxpayers. If the majority (without regard to race) makes clear that it wants a statue removed, then the statue should be removed.
Government is the servant of the citizen. I might not agree with the citizens, but I don't live there so it's not my call.
@houston
Pure,unadulturated HorseHillary. It is nothing less than an attempt to change and erase history in order to make the citizenry,the schools,and the local governemnts obey politically correct history.
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When is the statue of Robert Byrd or that hideouts statue of Nancy Pelosi going to be 'town down'?
If you think this is NOT all about Democrat subterfuge, then you deserve to be ruled by them.
@240B
:amen: :amen: :amen:
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@houston
Pure,unadulturated HorseHillary. It is nothing less than an attempt to change and erase history in order to make the citizenry,the schools,and the local governemnts obey politically correct history.
Help me understand your position here @sneakypete. Are you saying that the majority of people in Charlottesville *do not want* these statues removed? That might actually be the case; I would be very happy if such data materialized and changed the decision up there but I haven't seen anything to suggest it.
Or are you saying that government can ignore the wishes of a majority of tax paying citizens?
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Help me understand your position here @sneakypete. Are you saying that the majority of people in Charlottesville *do not want* these statues removed? That might actually be the case; I would be very happy if such data materialized and changed the decision up there but I haven't seen anything to suggest it.
@HoustonSam
Don't really know,don't really care. History is history,and you have no right to change or erase it.
Or are you saying that government can ignore the wishes of a majority of tax paying citizens?
Yes.
Once again,you can NOT change history.
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On the 4th of July weekend I, again, relived the entire Civil War on YouTube. Gettysburg was decisive.
Robert E. Lee was considered G_d like after the War for many years in Southern Culture, more so than anyone else associated with that CF.
Age of Reason
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNBgMy0dAe8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNBgMy0dAe8)
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I'll play Devil's Advocate....Who decided to put the statue up in the first place? Did the blacks living there have a say? Personally I don't care for statues being taken down, but this is a point that the people who oppose these statues always mention, and I really don't know how to counter it.
How many white folks were polled about putting up statues of George Floyd?
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Help me understand your position here @sneakypete. Are you saying that the majority of people in Charlottesville *do not want* these statues removed? That might actually be the case; I would be very happy if such data materialized and changed the decision up there but I haven't seen anything to suggest it.
Or are you saying that government can ignore the wishes of a majority of tax paying citizens?
You ask that as if it doesn't already.
My opinion is that monuments should neither be lightly erected nor torn down. Something that person did caused them to be held in high enough esteem that their effigy was crafted in stone or metal and placed in public view. All that has changed is the lens by which we view what they did.
Considering that there were free blacks in the South, the South that Lee and Jackson were defending from Northern Invasion, wasn't being defended just for whites, but for all Southerners, all of whom suffered when the Northern Armies moved through in conquest, whether being press ganged into labor, robbed blind by foraging troops, or any number of other things that conquering armies do when they invade.
Homes, farms, crops were taken, livestock rustled, horses "conscripted", goods stolen. Mills, barns, businesses and homes were put to the torch. Despite the twist that the South fought to defend slavery and nothing else that is taught now as "history", those men fought to defend their families, homes, and homeland, as most did not even own a slave.
It was the Union troops who invaded the South.
Invade my home State, and I'll be out there somewhere doing what I can to resist, too.
I don't care who you are.
That Lee and Jackson were iconic figures in that resistance to being militarily forced to rejoin the Union made them heroes to most, if not all Southerners.
Now, over a century and a half later, they are viewed through a different lens, colored by modern race theories and oversimplified accounts of the war and its causes, by people who seldom, if ever, want for the basic things those who fought were defending.
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Robert E. Lee statue taken down in Charlottesville
(https://thehill.com/sites/default/files/styles/thumb_small_article/public/roberteleestatue_charlottesville_071021getty.jpg?itok=CSMlkMQB)
more
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/562379-robert-e-lee-statue-taken-down-in-charlottesville
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Send it over to my house. I'm a descendant of R.E. Lee's uncle.
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I am hedging everyone pretty much can guess how I feel.
888mouth 888mouth 888mouth
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Send it over to my house. I'm a descendant of R.E. Lee's uncle.
I understand that Trump had an idea and a plan to create a heritage park where all the nation's Confederate statues could be relocated. If that could come to fruition, I would venture a bet that it would be one of the most visited parks annually in the country. These SOB BLM terrorist bastards can yank them down, but they can not fully destroy our heritage.
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I understand that Trump had an idea and a plan to create a heritage park where all the nation's Confederate statues could be relocated. If that could come to fruition, I would venture a bet that it would be one of the most visited parks annually in the country. These SOB BLM terrorist bastards can yank them down, but they can not fully destroy our heritage.
@catfish1957
The goal of the left is to destroy EVERY link to ALL heritiges,and make us all "citizuns ob de wurld!"
You can't tear apart a nation that is proud of it's heritige.
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@catfish1957
The goal of the left is to destroy EVERY link to ALL heritiges,and make us all "citizuns ob de wurld!"
You can't tear apart a nation that is proud of it's heritige.
You are correct, @sneakypete .
It took years for the Marxists to finally convince enough people that the Confederate Battle Flag is a "symbol of hate" rather than the banner of forces defending their homeland from military conquest.
Now, within a couple of years of tearing down the first statues of Confederate warriors, they are ranting that the flag of the Union is a "symbol of hate"...
I'm all for "reparations" at this point, for those who hate this country, so long as it takes the form of a one way ticket to the country of the recipient's choice, a passport which expires upon their arrival there, and a few hundred dollars in travel money. AMF!
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"The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"
Virgil Caine is the name
And I served on the Danville train
'Till Stoneman's cavalry came
And tore up the tracks again
In the winter of '65
We were hungry, just barely alive
By May the 10th, Richmond had fell
It's a time I remember, oh so well
The night they drove old Dixie down
And the bells were ringing
The night they drove old Dixie down
And the people were singing
They went, "Na, na, la, na, na, na"
Back with my wife in Tennessee
When one day she called to me
Said "Virgil, quick, come see,
There goes the Robert E. Lee!"
Now, I don't mind chopping wood
And I don't care if the money's no good
You take what you need
And you leave the rest
But they should never
Have taken the very best
The night they drove old Dixie down
And the bells were ringing
The night they drove old Dixie down
And all the people were singing
They went, "Na, na, la, na, na, na"
Like my father before me
I will work the land
And like my brother above me
Who took a rebel stand
He was just 18, proud and brave
But a Yankee laid him in his grave
I swear by the mud below my feet
You can't raise a Caine back up
When he's in defeat
The night they drove old Dixie down
And the bells were ringing
The night they drove old Dixie down
And all the people were singing
They went, "Na, na, la, na, na, na"
The night they drove old Dixie down
And all the bells were ringing
The night they drove old Dixie down
And the people were singing
They went, "Na, na, la, na, na, na"
-Robbie Robertson-
The Band
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDbnwQlCek)
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Thanks for that song @Hoodat :beer:
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https://youtu.be/EMRJT2ebvAk (https://youtu.be/EMRJT2ebvAk)
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You ask that as if it doesn't already.
My opinion is that monuments should neither be lightly erected nor torn down. Something that person did caused them to be held in high enough esteem that their effigy was crafted in stone or metal and placed in public view. All that has changed is the lens by which we view what they did.
Considering that there were free blacks in the South, the South that Lee and Jackson were defending from Northern Invasion, wasn't being defended just for whites, but for all Southerners, all of whom suffered when the Northern Armies moved through in conquest, whether being press ganged into labor, robbed blind by foraging troops, or any number of other things that conquering armies do when they invade.
Homes, farms, crops were taken, livestock rustled, horses "conscripted", goods stolen. Mills, barns, businesses and homes were put to the torch. Despite the twist that the South fought to defend slavery and nothing else that is taught now as "history", those men fought to defend their families, homes, and homeland, as most did not even own a slave.
It was the Union troops who invaded the South.
Invade my home State, and I'll be out there somewhere doing what I can to resist, too.
I don't care who you are.
That Lee and Jackson were iconic figures in that resistance to being militarily forced to rejoin the Union made them heroes to most, if not all Southerners.
Now, over a century and a half later, they are viewed through a different lens, colored by modern race theories and oversimplified accounts of the war and its causes, by people who seldom, if ever, want for the basic things those who fought were defending.
Lee and Jackson are certainly heroes in my book, as are many others who wore the gray, including my own ancestors. I consider the removal of Confederate monuments a misunderstanding of Constitutional liberty and a retrograde movement in American culture, and it makes me sad to see these statues being taken down.
But I don't see any evidence that removing the statues of Lee and Jackson in Charlottesville, or in Richmond, or the statue of Forrest in Memphis, is against the will of the majority of taxpayers in these locations. And I thought people around here expect government to be the servant of the taxpayer.
Whether or not you and I like it, the lens actually has changed. I'm not happy about that change and I certainly don't agree with it, but I recognize it as simple fact. Even in the South people younger than my generation (I'll be 60 later this year) generally know very little about the War and are largely ignorant of any aspect of the War other than emancipation. Reliable understanding of Reserved Powers or of Checks and Balances or of the actual events that gradually led to emancipation over decades or of other causes of the War or of how slavery actually came to an end legally simply does not exist anymore. And the public school teachers who are supposed to be the leaders in providing that understanding are more interested in perpetuating that ignorance by teaching "Critical Race Theory".
I wish Confederate statues would be left in place. But leaving them in place will much more likely subject them to graffiti and vandalism than teach anyone lessons about Constitutional liberty or American history. To protect the statues themselves it is probably best that they be removed to locations where vandalism will be far less likely. The few of us remaining who try to reflect on history and ordered liberty will have to find other, more effective, ways to encourage others to similar understanding.
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@HoustonSam
But I don't see any evidence that removing the statues of Lee and Jackson in Charlottesville, or in Richmond, or the statue of Forrest in Memphis, is against the will of the majority of taxpayers in these locations. And I thought people around here expect government to be the servant of the taxpayer.
And, short of a truly anonymous poll, you won't. Let the pigeons poop on their Escalades.
In the current environment of tearing down statues on public property by roving gangs of "mostly peaceful protesters", and in the climate of doxxing and threatening (if not terrorizing more directly) people who speak out against the narrative of "systemic racism", how many are going to come forward in protest? Keep in mind that when people did protest the removal of statues in Charlottesville, they were herded into conflict with opposing protesters, painted as dangerous radicals in the mass media, and practically all accused of being white supremacists. That was then, and the climate for those who go against the well protected radicals who are behind tearing down monuments and burning, looting, and even murder, has only become more hostile.
It has been my experience that the funding, organization, and the agitators in such instances are NOT local, and that has been the case (at least) since the 1960s when agitators from Washington, D.C. came into the small community I lived in in rural Maryland trying to incite racial tensions where there were none. (The local Blacks kicked them out.) During that same era, the purveyors of the hippie movement regularly flew (YES! FLEW!) across the country to spread their 'message' of "Turn on, tune in, drop out" (but dropouts couldn't afford plane tickets, those were expensive!) In the protests against the Dakota Access Pipeline, 95% of those arrested were from out of State.
You can bet your favorite anatomical part that the same pattern would be followed to exact vengeance against anyone who kept those monuments from being torn down in Charlottesville, whether a private citizen, or a public figure.
While these might seem like 'small town' matters, in fact they are just the swipes of the tentacles of a very well organized, funded, and extensive network assaulting the very history and fabric of this nation.
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And, short of a truly anonymous poll, you won't. Let the pigeons poop on their Escalades.
In the current environment of tearing down statues on public property by roving gangs of "mostly peaceful protesters", and in the climate of doxxing and threatening (if not terrorizing more directly) people who speak out against the narrative of "systemic racism", how many are going to come forward in protest?
If the people in those communities continue to elect race-obsessed "woke" progressives to local office, then clearly removal of Confederate statues is their will, just like defunding the police is their will and refusing to prosecute BLM rioters is their will. And if we don't find local election results credible because we prefer to believe that Dominion is hijacking local elections as well as presidential elections, then the people in those communities will have to take a stand on election law and on basic law and order and on statues. Or perhaps the people in those local communities will simply have to march in the streets to make themselves heard about these statues and other issues. I don't see any of that happening in Charlottesville, or Richmond, or Memphis.
I'm not defending these cities or their people. I want nothing to do with them. In no sense do I consider them fellow citizens with me in anything and for all I care all these cities can burn completely to the ground. But I'm not going to pretend that some silent majority there agrees with me just because I wish they did. We can theorize all kinds of reasons to believe that the majority *must* actually agree with us. But with no evidence it's just wishful thinking.
The people in these communities are getting what they want and they are the ones paying the taxes.
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If the people in those communities continue to elect race-obsessed "woke" progressives to local office, then clearly removal of Confederate statues is their will, just like defunding the police is their will and refusing to prosecute BLM rioters is their will. And if we don't find local election results credible because we prefer to believe that Dominion is hijacking local elections as well as presidential elections, then the people in those communities will have to take a stand on election law and on basic law and order and on statues. Or perhaps the people in those local communities will simply have to march in the streets to make themselves heard about these statues and other issues. I don't see any of that happening in Charlottesville, or Richmond, or Memphis.
I'm not defending these cities or their people. I want nothing to do with them. In no sense do I consider them fellow citizens with me in anything and for all I care all these cities can burn completely to the ground. But I'm not going to pretend that some silent majority there agrees with me just because I wish they did. We can theorize all kinds of reasons to believe that the majority *must* actually agree with us. But with no evidence it's just wishful thinking.
The people in these communities are getting what they want and they are the ones paying the taxes.
They don't even have to elect "woke" officials, the officials only have to be afraid of being treated like a Hatian President, or their historic town (Home of The University of Virginia) being treated like Lake Street in Minneapolis.
In no way does that imply anyone in the community, specifically, is getting what they want or voted for. It's just a reality of this era of Thug politics.
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They've also removed a statue of Lewis and Clark with Sacajawea (https://nypost.com/2021/07/10/charlottesville-takes-down-sacagawea-statue-after-confederate-removals/). Two explorers and a native American. It's not about the Civil War, folks.
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They've also removed a statue of Lewis and Clark with Sacajawea (https://nypost.com/2021/07/10/charlottesville-takes-down-sacagawea-statue-after-confederate-removals/). Two explorers and a native American. It's not about the Civil War, folks.
Send it to North Dakota. Considering the Louisiana Purchase was made during the Jefferson Administration, and that Voyage of Discovery began then also, and folks here still understand what a tracker is and how important that is, I think we could find a place for it.
But really, this cancel culture shit needs to stop.
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James Woods
@RealJamesWoods
As the idiots toppled this statue of three great explorers yesterday, they completely misunderstood Sacagawea’s posture. She was a tracker and guide. Lewis and Clark could not have achieved what they did without her extraordinary skills. Libs missed this part of American history.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5-hmoEVkAYXLfe?format=jpg&name=small)
8:59 PM · Jul 10, 2021
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Keep in mind these are the same folks (philosophically) who toppled a statue of Frederich Douglass, too.
Maybe if they'd paid more attention in school they wouldn't have to work as paid agitators (Thugs!).
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@HoustonSam
In the current environment of tearing down statues on public property by roving gangs of "mostly peaceful protesters", and in the climate of doxxing and threatening (if not terrorizing more directly) people who speak out against the narrative of "systemic racism", how many are going to come forward in protest? Keep in mind that when people did protest the removal of statues in Charlottesville, they were herded into conflict with opposing protesters, painted as dangerous radicals in the mass media, and practically all accused of being white supremacists. That was then, and the climate for those who go against the well protected radicals who are behind tearing down monuments and burning, looting, and even murder, has only become more hostile.
@Smokin Joe
Well said,but lets not forget the danger of people losing jobs for speaking out. This is the most immediate and most "real" danger to speaking your mind these days.
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I have changed jobs more often than I have changed my principles.
I can change jobs again if need be.
But then, I have never run for office, either.
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They've also removed a statue of Lewis and Clark with Sacajawea (https://nypost.com/2021/07/10/charlottesville-takes-down-sacagawea-statue-after-confederate-removals/). Two explorers and a native American. It's not about the Civil War, folks.
@mountaineer
Simply put,it's about Black Power,and their desire to demean and enslave US.
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James Woods
@RealJamesWoods
As the idiots toppled this statue of three great explorers yesterday, they completely misunderstood Sacagawea’s posture. She was a tracker and guide. Lewis and Clark could not have achieved what they did without her extraordinary skills. Libs missed this part of American history.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5-hmoEVkAYXLfe?format=jpg&name=small)
8:59 PM · Jul 10, 2021
@mountaineer
If they weren't stoopid,they wouldn't be leftists.
Leftists don't think,they feel!
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Keep in mind these are the same folks (philosophically) who toppled a statue of Frederich Douglass, too.
Maybe if they'd paid more attention in school they wouldn't have to work as paid agitators (Thugs!).
@Smokin Joe
Seriously?????
What excuse did they give for this?
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@Smokin Joe
Seriously?????
What excuse did they give for this?
Ignorance is an excuse all its own.
It happened last year in New York.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53311558 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53311558)
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Ignorance is an excuse all its own.
It happened last year in New York.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53311558 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53311558)
@Smokin Joe
I should have known. The home of stoopid.
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Yet Lenin is still in Seattle.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3062/3013687781_f8336a137f_b.jpg)
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Yet Lenin is still in Seattle.
(https://live.staticflickr.com/3062/3013687781_f8336a137f_b.jpg)
@corbe,all
Any of you that live in or near Seattle should start protesting and demandin the statue of Lenin be torn down.
Watch the lefties scream and howl in outrage at THAT one,while exposing themselves for who they really are.
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@corbe,all
Any of you that live in or near Seattle should start protesting and demandin the statue of Lenin be torn down.
Watch the lefties scream and howl in outrage at THAT one,while exposing themselves for who they really are.
Well, it's not like Lenin actually killed anyone. Oh, wait . . .
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@corbe,all
Any of you that live in or near Seattle should start protesting and demandin the statue of Lenin be torn down.
Watch the lefties scream and howl in outrage at THAT one,while exposing themselves for who they really are.
What's good for the goose ......
No protests or demands are needed, a mob can simply deface it and pull it down.
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What's good for the goose ......
No protests or demands are needed, a mob can simply deface it and pull it down.
@HoustonSam
Works for me.
If I were within driving distance of a Lenin,Marx (as long as it wasn't Groucho,of course!) or Stalin statue in a city park,I would be there doing my best to destroy the damn thing,or trying to beat the snot out of anyone that tried to stop me.