The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: corbe on January 06, 2019, 08:51:23 pm
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Trump says he's pushing for steel barrier instead of concrete wall amid standoff with Dems
By Brett Samuels - 01/06/19 03:31 PM EST
President Trump said Sunday that he's instructed officials in his administration to push for a steel barrier along the southern border rather than concrete wall amid an ongoing standoff with Democrats over the structure.
"We've been in touch with a lot of people and i informed my folks to say that we'll build a steel barrier, steel, that it will be made out of steel, that it will be less obtrusive and stronger," Trump told reporters at the White House upon returning from Camp David.
Trump said steel would "give us great strength," and suggested that Democrats opposed a concrete barrier.
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https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/424080-trump-says-hes-pushing-for-steel-barrier-instead-of-concrete-wall-at (https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/424080-trump-says-hes-pushing-for-steel-barrier-instead-of-concrete-wall-at)
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By Valentines Day (if this is still going on) we'll be down to this (and the Trumpers will proclaim how wondrous it is).
(https://www.thisoldhouse.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_slideshow/public/migrated/images/06-deer-guarding.jpg?itok=AheKdYws×tamp=1464281459)
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Better go with concrete, or they will steal the wall and sell it for scrap.
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So what was already passed and is already being build via the secure fence act.
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I don't care what it's made of...so long as it's centered on a 20 ft wide moat stocked with alligators
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By Valentines Day (if this is still going on) we'll be down to this (and the Trumpers will proclaim how wondrous it is).
(https://www.thisoldhouse.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_slideshow/public/migrated/images/06-deer-guarding.jpg?itok=AheKdYws×tamp=1464281459)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sXK0rQmx/351cqde.gif)
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Steel is ok,but concrete is better. I doubt the muckity-mucks in congress have given this any thought,but people can easily climb steel walls if they strap magnets to their hands and feet.
And,of course,the answer to this is pressure sensitive pads that turn on the electricity.
Still,it adds to the cost.
Concrete would be better,which is why the Dims oppose it.
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We will return after a brief word from our sponsor:
(http://www.pittsburghsportsreport.com/PSR/sites/default/files/uss_logo_blue1_1.jpg)
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Steel is ok,but concrete is better. I doubt the muckity-mucks in congress have given this any thought,but people can easily climb steel walls if they strap magnets to their hands and feet.
If they just strap those magnets to their hands and feet and try to climb a steel fence without some sort of lever releases on those magnets, they'll just be stuck on the walls.
Some outfit will have to make a whole lot of magnetic climbers for them.
(https://www.hhenriksen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/climb.png)
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By Valentines Day (if this is still going on) we'll be down to this (and the Trumpers will proclaim how wondrous it is).
(https://www.thisoldhouse.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_slideshow/public/migrated/images/06-deer-guarding.jpg?itok=AheKdYws×tamp=1464281459)
Well, we know the southern side of it will look good. All the landscapers are on that side.
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I don't care what it's made of...so long as it's centered on a 20 ft wide moat stocked with alligators
Aligators and one side, drones flying overhead and a mine field on the other side .... that ought to do it!
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If they just strap those magnets to their hands and feet and try to climb a steel fence without some sort of lever releases on those magnets, they'll just be stuck on the walls.
Some outfit will have to make a whole lot of magnetic climbers for them.
(https://www.hhenriksen.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/climb.png)
@Elderberry
Well,yes,and no. If the wall is smooth enough,a climber with magnets could just slide them up,over,and back down.
And there have been magnets with releases made from decades. I have seen and used them myself,but can't remember what I used to them for at this late date.
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Hard to electrify concrete.
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Hard to electrify concrete.
@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer
Duhhhhhh. Good thing it's not necessary because magnetic climbing devices won't work with concrete,ain't it?
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So I'll put you in that category @sneakypete that thinks we'll get anything other than rhetoric for the next two years.
Disclaimer: I fix my own damn home and mow my own grass.
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By Valentines Day (if this is still going on) we'll be down to this (and the Trumpers will proclaim how wondrous it is).
(https://www.thisoldhouse.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_slideshow/public/migrated/images/06-deer-guarding.jpg?itok=AheKdYws×tamp=1464281459)
It would still beat the broken down fence we have now. I think we probably all have seen the illegal immigrants pulling back the piece of metal and coming right in.
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So I'll put you in that category @sneakypete that thinks we'll get anything other than rhetoric for the next two years.
Disclaimer: I fix my own damn home and mow my own grass.
I am sure it is a much better job too.
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Hard to electrify concrete.
Electrified steel would work. And they can have the slats come to a sharp stake at the top.
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By Valentines Day (if this is still going on) we'll be down to this (and the Trumpers will proclaim how wondrous it is).
(https://www.thisoldhouse.com/sites/default/files/styles/gallery_slideshow/public/migrated/images/06-deer-guarding.jpg?itok=AheKdYws×tamp=1464281459)
There are no 'Trumpers' @corbe There are NTers and rational people ... two different species altogether.
Trump mentioned Steel in his speech while referencing how he saved the steel industry.
Going from cement to steel is not downsizing.
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I already saw some images awhile back of new steel panels that were already rusted.
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There are no 'Trumpers' @corbe There are NTers and rational people ... two different species altogether.
Trump mentioned Steel in his speech while referencing how he saved the steel industry.
Going from cement to steel is not downsizing.
Steel has scrap value. Concrete does not. One is more likely to be 'scrounged'.
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Steel has scrap value. Concrete does not. One is more likely to be 'scrounged'.
How about steel slats reinforced with concrete?
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How about steel slats reinforced with concrete?
Anything which makes it tougher to 'harvest' the steel...
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I already saw some images awhile back of new steel panels that were already rusted.
Wow @Chosen Daughter Have you seen any other images lately?
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How about steel slats reinforced with concrete?
@libertybele
You have it backwards. Steel is put into concrete forms before the pour is made to reinforce the concrete.
As for it being new and rusty,don't let that bother you. So is the steel used in bridges and ship-building. The rust can be treated.
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Electrified steel would work. And they can have the slats come to a sharp stake at the top.
To electrify a steel fence, all of the electrified portion would have to be insulated from the ground. If they just ran a string of insulated wires that were electrified, those could be easily cut.
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To electrify a steel fence, all of the electrified portion would have to be insulated from the ground. If they just ran a string of insulated wires that were electrified, those could be easily cut.
Jesus H. Christ! Did you have to tell everyone?
😊
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To electrify a steel fence, all of the electrified portion would have to be insulated from the ground. If they just ran a string of insulated wires that were electrified, those could be easily cut.
You put insulators between the steel sections, about 14' high and only electrify the upper section(s). And make sure there's a good toe hold at about 8'.
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You put insulators between the steel sections, about 14' high and only electrify the upper section(s). And make sure there's a good toe hold at about 8'.
What's the "good toe hold" for? So they can easily stand in these toe holds as they use jumper cables to short out the upper sections to the lower grounded ones?
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What's the "good toe hold" for? So they can easily stand in these toe holds as they use jumper cables to short out the upper sections to the lower grounded ones?
To make sure the fall is just high enough for a good whack on the butt, but not high enough to do real damage. Also, to make them feel cocky just beforehand.
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Best to just use concrete and never have to worry about stuff like that. They can even pour it in place with a slight curve at the top that leans towards Mexico to make climbing it even harder.
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@libertybele
You have it backwards. Steel is put into concrete forms before the pour is made to reinforce the concrete.
As for it being new and rusty,don't let that bother you. So is the steel used in bridges and ship-building. The rust can be treated.
:beer: Thank you for the information. Quite frankly, Steel or concrete would be just fine with me. Just get the darn thing built!
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(http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49671156_10218496665990736_2518848175637266432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=814084cbf49bf357e7acb407dcbae20a&oe=5C8C45C9)
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Is a steel wall going to be cheaper than a concrete one? And whose steel? American, or Chinese?
I found this article on the price breakdown for a concrete wall. I haven't found one yet for a steel wall.
Trump's border wall -- how much it will actually cost according to a statistician
Fox News 12/11/2018
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trumps-border-wall-how-much-it-will-actually-cost-according-to-a-statistician (https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trumps-border-wall-how-much-it-will-actually-cost-according-to-a-statistician)
Construction
Size of the wall: 1,150 miles long; 40 feet high; 10 feet deep into the ground; 1 foot wide
Total volume of material: 11.2 million cubic yards
Materials: Approximately $8.7 billion in concrete (97 percent of the materials); approximately $3.6 billion in steel (3 percent of the materials)
Labor: Approximately $12.3 billion (given the labor costs on the original 654 miles of barriers we can assume a conservative 1:1 ratio of materials to labor)
Land acquisition: About 60 percent of the border is privately owned land. While the federal government has the power to take privately owned property for public purposes, it must provide “just compensation.†Based on previous purchases from the 2006-2009 wall construction, the cost at most would be $300,000 per mile acquired, or approximately $200 million altogether.
In total, the actual physical cost of the wall would be about $25 billion. That sounds like a ton of money. But it isn’t just one person paying for it – the entirety of the U.S. taxpayer base would collectively foot the bill.
To put that in perspective, we could give 50,000 small businesses $500,000 each to get their businesses up and running. That would be pretty incredible. On the other hand, we spend a lot of money on some absolutely ridiculous things. The taxpayer-funded National Science Foundation gave almost $200,000 to a researcher to study the gambling habits of monkeys. What was the result? Nonsensical animal testing and suffering so we could find out that monkeys like to gamble. Come on.
I could easily come up with $25 billion dollars in our federal budget that are wasted each year. No problem.
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(http://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49671156_10218496665990736_2518848175637266432_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-1.xx&oh=814084cbf49bf357e7acb407dcbae20a&oe=5C8C45C9)
:rolling: Perfect!!
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Is a steel wall going to be cheaper than a concrete one? And whose steel? American, or Chinese?
I found this article on the price breakdown for a concrete wall. I haven't found one yet for a steel wall.
@Elderberry
There is more to consider than construction costs. Steel requires a lot more maintenance work than concrete,which is virtually "pour and forget" unless there is an earthquake or a bombing.