The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: ABX on June 09, 2016, 12:42:06 pm
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.....Trump’s primary claim to fame is as a Manhattan real-estate developer. He inherited this profession (and his economic worldview) from his father. But it’s worth stressing that within the world of Manhattan real estate, Trump is a relatively minor player. Yes, there are about a dozen buildings in New York City that bear his name, but nearly all are branding relationships, not actual ownership. He sits so far down the pecking order of Manhattan real estate that Adam Pincus, head of research at the industry publication The Real Deal, doesn’t recall ever including Trump or his companies in their major rankings of developers, owners or property managers. Likewise, Trump’s importance in the industry of casinos and luxury resorts is far below what his public reputation might suggest. After multiple bankruptcies, Trump no longer owns any casinos; he owns only nine hotels, with three more said to be “coming soon.”......
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/12/magazine/behind-the-gold-curtain-of-donald-trumps-resume.html?smid=fb-share&_r=0
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...Based on his read of Trump’s election filings, which showed only $165 million in liquid assets, Cuban harbors doubts about whether Trump is even a billionaire as he claims....
....When you try to weigh Trump’s record as a businessman, you quickly find that there’s nothing of substance. Think of the characteristics you might find noteworthy in a business leader: A vision of the future? A single-minded focus on excellence? Discrimination and judgment? He’s no visionary, no Steve Jobs who forges new things. Trump’s accomplishments have come from replicating the products and services of others. He seems to lack any instinct for righting a sinking ship. Despite the declarations of his backers that he’ll “get the best people,” his organizations have hardly been magnets for talent — as evidenced by the fact that his leadership teams so often consist of people whose last names are Trump or whose sole accomplishment is having worked for him....
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How to tell a BS article where the author thinks its readers are stupid: "$165 million in liquid assets." That means ready cash on hand. Its not his wealth, its not what he owns. Its his cash laying around. No Smart businessman keeps the bulk of their wealth liquid. Its out there working for them to make more money.
This is part of the Democrat Meme to lie about why Trump is running for office. People like hes not doing it for money or power. So we get this garbage anybody who has taken a business class can see is total BS.
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How to tell a BS article where the author thinks its readers are stupid: "$165 million in liquid assets." That means ready cash on hand. Its not his wealth, its not what he owns. Its his cash laying around. No Smart businessman keeps the bulk of their wealth liquid. Its out there working for them to make more money.
This is part of the Democrat Meme to lie about why Trump is running for office. People like hes not doing it for money or power. So we get this garbage anybody who has taken a business class can see is total BS.
And the easiest way to tell when an article is NOT stupid or BS is when the Trump minions attack it. Because you can never refute the claims, you just attack the messenger.
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And the easiest way to tell when an article is NOT stupid or BS is when the Trump minions attack it. Because you can never refute the claims, you just attack the messenger.
It's the NYT so it's got to be true!
(Just seeing if you're really a redhead or not. :laugh:)
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LOL. Liquid assets != just cash. Yes, he's such a brilliant business man that he values his brand at $4 billion (or not) based on how he feels that day:
From an interview with a Trump biographer, Timothy O'Brien:
My lawyers deposed Donald for two days during the litigation, and we covered a range of interesting subjects. Among the documents discussed was a Deutsche Bank assessment that pegged Donald’s net worth at $788 million in 2005. At the time, Donald was telling his bankers and casino regulators that he was worth $3.6 billion; he was telling me he was worth $5 billion to $6 billion.
Have you “always been completely truthful in your public statements about your net worth,” my attorneys asked Donald. “I try,” was his reply. When they asked him about how he calculated his net worth, he noted that the figure “goes up and down with markets and with attitudes and with feelings, even my own feelings.” Later he added that “even my own feelings affect my value to myself.”
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How to tell a BS article where the author thinks its readers are stupid: "$165 million in liquid assets." That means ready cash on hand. Its not his wealth, its not what he owns. Its his cash laying around. No Smart businessman keeps the bulk of their wealth liquid. Its out there working for them to make more money.
This is part of the Democrat Meme to lie about why Trump is running for office. People like hes not doing it for money or power. So we get this garbage anybody who has taken a business class can see is total BS.
Liquid assets are not just cash. Liquid assets are assets that can be readily liquidated to provide cash, like publicly traded stocks and bonds.
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And the easiest way to tell when an article is NOT stupid or BS is when the Trump minions attack it. Because you can never refute the claims, you just attack the messenger.
So you a so-called conservative are defending the NYT....
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Are you pretending to be this stupid, or are you really this stupid?
No not stupid. But He really is that pig headed... dug in like a tick gorged with blood on Trumps A$$.
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Liquid assets are not just cash. Liquid assets are assets that can be readily liquidated to provide cash, like publicly traded stocks and bonds. Are you pretending to be this stupid, or are you really this stupid?
Liquid is liquid. And you of all people should know they are not the measure of his wealth. I was not the so called conservative who said gun control was constitutional...
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LOL. Liquid assets != just cash. Yes, he's such a brilliant business man that he values his brand at $4 billion (or not) based on how he feels that day:
From an interview with a Trump biographer, Timothy O'Brien:
"10 billion dollar don" is really "demonic lying don," as your quote relates. So taken is this critter with lies, that it thinks it gets to create reality as it spews the bullshit.
It is not only the Greatest, Yugest liar, it is the great deceiver. It has deceived millions, and may deceive millions more before it all plays out.
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Liquid is liquid. And you of all people should know they are not the measure of his wealth. I was not the so called conservative who said gun control was constitutional...
Duh. A is A, B is B, .... Shall we continue with tautologies? You said liquid was just cash. That was flatly wrong, which you would have known if you ever bothered to fact-check, or even think about, your posts. And you're no conservative.
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Liquid assets are not just cash. Liquid assets are assets that can be readily liquidated to provide cash, like publicly traded stocks and bonds. Are you pretending to be this stupid, or are you really this stupid?
You really don't want that question answered. Most of what people think Trump's value is in, his real estate, isn't really his. It belongs to Trump International or Trump Properties. He is the CEO of those businesses but he can't just go 'sell a building' like some say. He would have to get board and shareholder approval > approval from any banks that hold notes or leans against those (which I am sure he is leveraged neck deep) > IF any profit is left over, that still isn't his money, it is money that belongs to the corporation. As someone posted above, most of is net worth is tied in with speculated value of his name/brand.
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You really don't want that question answered. Most of what people think Trump's value is in, his real estate, isn't really his. It belongs to Trump International or Trump Properties. He is the CEO of those businesses but he can't just go 'sell a building' like some say. He would have to get board and shareholder approval > approval from any banks that hold notes or leans against those (which I am sure he is leveraged neck deep) > IF any profit is left over, that still isn't his money, it is money that belongs to the corporation. As someone posted above, most of is net worth is tied in with speculated value of his name/brand.
Which question do I not want answered? The answer to the only question I asked is blatantly obvious, as wingnut pointed out.
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Which question do I not want answered? The answer to the only question I asked is blatantly obvious, as wingnut pointed out.
This one: Are you pretending to be this stupid, or are you really this stupid? :smokin:
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This one: Are you pretending to be this stupid, or are you really this stupid? :smokin:
Like I said, wingnut pointed out the obvious answer.
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It's the NYT so it's got to be true!
(Just seeing if you're really a redhead or not. :laugh:)
Red headed and Irish. A dangerous combination.
The easiest way to discredit the messenger is to tell people where the message is wrong, and nobody seems to be able to do that. Trump's organization is privately held. It isn't audited. He refuses to release his tax returns. All we have for support on his net worth is his own claims and his own estimates. If stories like this are true then Trump has been lying about his wealth all along. And he he'll lie about that then what else will he lie about. Trump himself could put all this speculation and all this analysis to rest but he won't. And probably for good reason.
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Duh. A is A, B is B, .... Shall we continue with tautologies? You said liquid was just cash. That was flatly wrong, which you would have known if you ever bothered to fact-check, or even think about, your posts. And you're no conservative.
Keep skipping over the issue, The article LIED about his wealth by trying to trick people with liquid assets as the wealth. attacking me will not change 2 facts, You are defending NYT, You are dodging the issue.
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His point was that business doesn’t run this way: If you’re hiring someone to be a chief executive, you don’t ask them to lay out every decision they’ll make, years ahead of when they’ll make it. You hire someone whom you trust, and you let them run things. Beal says he knows that Trump will do the right things to make the economy perform better. “You’re going to say, ‘How?’ ” he told me. “I don’t know how. I know that sounds crazy. That’s how the real world operates.”
You need to look at it a different way. If we were investors looking to put our faith and trust and capital into Trump then we would expect to see a business plan. We would expect to see where he expected to be in two years or four years, and how he planned to get there. We would expect to see details and would not be satisfied with "I don't know but trust me" as a response to our questions. That might work for Beal but that isn't how rational people would do business. Hope is not a strategy.
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His point was that business doesn’t run this way: If you’re hiring someone to be a chief executive, you don’t ask them to lay out every decision they’ll make, years ahead of when they’ll make it. You hire someone whom you trust, and you let them run things. Beal says he knows that Trump will do the right things to make the economy perform better. “You’re going to say, ‘How?’ ” he told me. “I don’t know how. I know that sounds crazy. That’s how the real world operates.”
You need to look at it a different way. If we were investors looking to put our faith and trust and capital into Trump then we would expect to see a business plan. We would expect to see where he expected to be in two years or four years, and how he planned to get there. We would expect to see details and would not be satisfied with "I don't know but trust me" as a response to our questions. That might work for Beal but that isn't how rational people would do business. Hope is not a strategy.
Well put.
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Keep skipping over the issue, The article LIED about his wealth by trying to trick people with liquid assets as the wealth. attacking me will not change 2 facts, You are defending NYT, You are dodging the issue.
How did the article lie about Trump's wealth? The $165 million figure came from Trump's own filings with the FEC. The estimate on total wealth came from Mark Cuban, another billionaire, who no doubt based it on his experience with running profitable businesses (none of which have gone bankrupt) and his analysis of Trump's actions. Where is any of this a lie?
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You really don't want that question answered. Most of what people think Trump's value is in, his real estate, isn't really his. It belongs to Trump International or Trump Properties. He is the CEO of those businesses but he can't just go 'sell a building' like some say. He would have to get board and shareholder approval > approval from any banks that hold notes or leans against those (which I am sure he is leveraged neck deep) > IF any profit is left over, that still isn't his money, it is money that belongs to the corporation. As someone posted above, most of is net worth is tied in with speculated value of his name/brand.
barer bonds and other such are considered cash. Much of what you list is not readily converted so is not listed as "liquid" unless its of the type that is easy to transfer. If its easy to transfer is falls under cash. Not who is the one with egg on their face. "Cash" has a broader definition then dollar bills. It can be any money equivalent used to pay for something. That includes many stocks and bonds, checks credit cards, money orders, diamonds gold, etc. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cash
The issue was the article lying. Not about you #neverTrumpers not knowing what the hell you are talking about.
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barer bonds and other such are considered cash. Much of what you list is not readily converted so is not listed as "liquid" unless its of the type that is easy to transfer. If its easy to transfer is falls under cash. Not who is the one with egg on their face. "Cash" has a broader definition then dollar bills. It can be any money equivalent used to pay for something. That includes many stocks and bonds, checks credit cards, money orders, diamonds gold, etc. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cash
The issue was the article lying. Not about you #neverTrumpers not knowing what the hell you are talking about.
What are "barer bonds"? Is that something you have to put up when you exercise your constitutional right to "bare arms"?
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This is another valid point:
But the more striking question is Cuban’s: why a man with as much money as Trump claims to have, presiding over as many successful ventures as Trump claims to own, would stoop to start up a boiler-room business like Trump University, squeezing out revenues from would-be students a few thousand dollars at a time. The fact that he did — even if that decision doesn’t point, as Cuban suggests, to an outright desperation for cash — speaks volumes about Trump’s utter inability to calibrate risk and reward.
Do we want the leader of our country, and the supposed leader of the Free World, to be a man who cannot calculate if a risk is worth taking or not? Who makes decisions on a whim and ego - as witnessed by his overpaying for Eastern Airlines solely so he could have an airline to name after himself - rather than in a thoughtful and deliberate manner? Everything in Trump's background and known history screams unfit for the position of president.
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The issue was the article lying. Not about you #neverTrumpers not knowing what the hell you are talking about.
How. Did. It. Lie?
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How did the article lie about Trump's wealth? The $165 million figure came from Trump's own filings with the FEC. The estimate on total wealth came from Mark Cuban, another billionaire, who no doubt based it on his experience with running profitable businesses (none of which have gone bankrupt) and his analysis of Trump's actions. Where is any of this a lie?
For one, it only includes one geographic area. Trump has properties all over the world. 2. The liquid assets are cash on hand to pay for something. Most wealth is going to be invested in other assets that are working to make more money and are not easily converted back liquid.
The Democrat meme here is to attack the fact Trump is Rich and is not motivated by money or power to seek the office of the Presidency. A side democrat meme is to attack his reputation for honesty. And as always the ones wit a 100% record of being wrong lap it up.
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For one, it only includes one geographic area. Trump has properties all over the world. 2. The liquid assets are cash on hand to pay for something. Most wealth is going to be invested in other assets that are working to make more money and are not easily converted back liquid.
The Democrat meme here is to attack the fact Trump is Rich and is not motivated by money or power to seek the office of the Presidency. A side democrat meme is to attack his reputation for honesty. And as always the ones wit a 100% record of being wrong lap it up.
Trump owns precious few buildings. The buildings are owned by the LPs into which the investors put their money. Trump will have a very small slice in the LP and mainly get money as fees for management services and licensing royalties on his name.
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What are "barer bonds"? Is that something you have to put up when you exercise your constitutional right to "bare arms"?
a typo, its http://www.investorwords.com/439/bearer_bond.html
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Trump owns precious few buildings. The buildings are owned by the LPs into which the investors put their money. Trump will have a very small slice in the LP and mainly get money as fees for management services and licensing royalties on his name.
I see you play in the minor leagues. Hint Look at how many corporations Trump has incorporated in Delaware... IIRC its over 200. he pays very little tax I understand but has great cash flow. When you figure that out you can try playing with the big dogs.
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For one, it only includes one geographic area. Trump has properties all over the world.
The article did mention Trump's hotels, which are international, and his former casino holdings, which were nationwide. But most of what you see worldwide that has Trump's name on it are not owned by him. He only licensed his name to the venture, the the article deals with that as well.
2. The liquid assets are cash on hand to pay for something. Most wealth is going to be invested in other assets that are working to make more money and are not easily converted back liquid.
The amount is not a lie because Trump provided it. Given Trump's numbers of $165 million in liquid assets and his claimed total worth of $10 billion then that results in a liquidity ration of 1.65% and means that his debt to equity ratio by comparison has to be off the charts. Lack of liquidity is a red flag in business. It indicates that the company may have problems paying off debt as it comes due and such a company is considered to be much riskier than companies with higher liquidity ratios. So all that Cuban is saying, and which an rational investor can determine, is that either Trump's assets are mortgaged to the hilt and he could face cash flow problems in the event of a downturn or similar financial crisis, or his total worth is much smaller than what Trump claims. Either way it isn't a lie.
The Democrat meme here is to attack the fact Trump is Rich and is not motivated by money or power to seek the office of the Presidency. A side democrat meme is to attack his reputation for honesty. And as always the ones wit a 100% record of being wrong lap it up.
The fact of the matter is that Trump is rich, though probably not as rich as he claims, and that his sole motivation throughout his entire life has been money and name recognition, and that he has made numerous very poor business decisions in pursuit of both. Poor preparation for the presidency
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For one, it only includes one geographic area. Trump has properties all over the world. 2. The liquid assets are cash on hand to pay for something. Most wealth is going to be invested in other assets that are working to make more money and are not easily converted back liquid.
The Democrat meme here is to attack the fact Trump is Rich and is not motivated by money or power to seek the office of the Presidency. A side democrat meme is to attack his reputation for honesty. And as always the ones wit a 100% record of being wrong lap it up.
His properties are owned by his corporation, not him directly. He, for all intents and purposes, even as CEO, is just an employee.
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His properties are owned by his corporation, not him directly. He, for all intents and purposes, even as CEO, is just an employee.
The Trump Organization is a privately-held LLC and not a corporation. There is no stock, no audits, no financial statements, only The Donald as sole owner. It is held by him directly.
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How to tell a BS article where the author thinks its readers are stupid: "$165 million in liquid assets." That means ready cash on hand. Its not his wealth, its not what he owns. Its his cash laying around. No Smart businessman keeps the bulk of their wealth liquid. Its out there working for them to make more money.
Liquid assets are not just cash. Liquid assets are assets that can be readily liquidated to provide cash, like publicly traded stocks and bonds. Are you pretending to be this stupid, or are you really this stupid?
What items are considered liquid assets?
A: A liquid asset is cash on hand or an asset that can be readily converted to cash. An asset that can readily be converted into cash is similar to cash itself because the asset can be sold with little impact on its value.
For example, cash on hand is considered a liquid asset due to its ability to be readily accessed. Cash is legal tender a company can use to settle its current liabilities. Suppose a person or a company has money in a checking or savings account. The cash in the account is considered liquid because it can be withdrawn easily to settle liabilities.
Investments are considered liquid assets because they can be readily liquidated. For example, shares of stock, bonds, money market funds and mutual funds are considered liquid assets. These assets can be converted to cash in a short period of time in the event a financial emergency arises. Generally, investments are considered liquid assets because they can be easily sold, depending on the investment.
An example of a non-liquid asset is a real estate investment because it can take months for a person or company to receive cash from the sale. For example, suppose a company owns real estate property and wants to liquidate because it has to pay off a debt obligation within a month. The company may take more than one month to sell its property. If the company wants to sell the property quickly, the value of the property can result in a loss.
A liquid asset can be readily converted into cash with little impact on the value. In the case of a company trying to liquidate its real estate investment, liquidating can have a high impact on its value.
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/032715/what-items-are-considered-liquid-assets.asp (http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/032715/what-items-are-considered-liquid-assets.asp)
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His properties are owned by his corporation, not him directly. He, for all intents and purposes, even as CEO, is just an employee.
The Trump Organization is a privately-held LLC and not a corporation. There is no stock, no audits, no financial statements, only The Donald as sole owner. It is held by him directly.
You are correct RedHead. In looking at his FEC filing, his companies are for the most part LLC’s or privately/closely held corporations and a very few LLP’s with other owners/investors/partners. Some of his companies list Trump Family members as partners/co-owners. These are not publically traded entities that would be subject to SEC filings and exhaustively audited independent financial statements. He would however have to submit audited financial statements in order to obtain financing and IIRC, in my past corporate experience, in order to obtain liability insurance, but those types of audited financials do not have the same weight nor undergo the type of scrutiny as those of a publically traded company with shareholders.
I would also note that he has multiple business entities set up for individual properties and or companies. For example, for 40 Wall Street there is 40 Wall Development Associates LLC; 40 Wall Street Commercial LLC; 40 Wall Street LLC; and 40 Wall Street Member Corp.
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2175187/trump.pdf (https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2175187/trump.pdf)
However, on page 13 of the PDF, he claims income from only the company named as 40 Wall Street LLC, with a “value” of “over $50,000,000” and rent income of “over $5,000,000".
Some of his companies report “None (or less than $201)” in income.
That is not really unusual as many companies and business owners will set up multiple shell companies, some as LLC’s and some as closely held private corps in order to shield themselves from lawsuits and with only one entity having income but with the others such as management shell companies having not income but expenses that can be written off as tax losses. This is probably why Trump does not want to release his tax returns IMO. Not that it is illegal but may show how he uses byzantine business structuring to minimize or avoid paying taxes all together.
And some of these companies are set up for purely as licensing/branding deals were he does not actually own the property or where he was the developer but not the owner. And some of the companies listed on his FEC filing no longer actually exist like Trump Entrepreneur Initiative LLC (f/n/a Trump University CA LLC) or Trump Ice (the defunked Trump branded bottled spring water company) or Trump Realty Services LLC (i.e. Trump Mortgages)
The FEC filing also leaves a lot of leeway as to the actual valuation of his properties and business assets.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2016/05/17/trump-files-new-financial-disclosure-still-touting-questionable-10-billion-fortune/#76946eb96716 (http://www.forbes.com/sites/chasewithorn/2016/05/17/trump-files-new-financial-disclosure-still-touting-questionable-10-billion-fortune/#76946eb96716)