The Briefing Room
State Chapters => Florida => Topic started by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2023, 10:07:58 pm
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Disney Pulls Plug on $1 Billion Development in Florida
NY Times, May 18, 2023
In March, Disney called Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida “anti-business” for his scorched-earth attempt to tighten oversight of the company’s theme park resort near Orlando. Last month, when Disney sued the governor and his allies for what it called “a targeted campaign of government retaliation,” the company made clear that $17 billion in planned investment in Walt Disney World was on the line.
“Does the state want us to invest more, employ more people, and pay more taxes, or not?” Robert A. Iger, Disney’s chief executive, said on an earnings-related conference call with analysts last week.
On Thursday, Mr. Iger and Josh D’Amaro, Disney’s theme park and consumer products chairman, showed that they were not bluffing, pulling the plug on an office complex that was scheduled for construction in Orlando at a cost of roughly $1 billion. It would have brought more than 2,000 Disney jobs to the region, with $120,000 as the average salary, according to an estimate from the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity.
The project, known as Lake Nona Town Center, was supposed to cost $864 million, but recent price estimates have been closer to $1.3 billion. Disney had planned to relocate as many as 2,000 employees from Southern California, including most of a department known as Imagineering, which works with Disney’s movie studios to develop theme park attractions.
More:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/18/business/disney-ron-desantis-florida.html?smtyp=cur&smid=tw-nytimes
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If it was up to me, there's be a wide moat around Reedy Creek and flyover restrictions.
See how the homo groomers like that.
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I rather doubt that Florida is going to go hurting for alternative investment sources.
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It's a shame that Disney is forced to economize after a spate of bad decisions, but those 2,000 democrats need to stay the hell in California.
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It's working.
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Lol, the costs in California will be triple that... good riddance.
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Another win-win for DeSantis and the State of Florida.
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Another win-win for DeSantis and the State of Florida.
:yowsa:
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It's a shame that Disney is forced to economize after a spate of bad decisions, but those 2,000 democrats need to stay the hell in California.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/03/18/15/324D202500000578-3498922-image-a-33_1458315465874.jpg). It's not Ike those 2,000 jobs paying $120,000+ could have helped the local economy anyway.
It would have brought more than 2,000 Disney jobs to the region, with $120,000 as the average salary, according to an estimate from the Florida Department of Economic Opportunity
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It's not Ike those 2,000 jobs paying $120,000+ could have helped the local economy anyway.
I'm afraid I'm gonna have to disagree with the NY Times on this one, @Right_in_Virginia
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It's not Ike those 2,000 jobs paying $120,000+ could have helped the local economy anyway.
In the homo grooming industry? Who wants that?
2000 gambling jobs?
2000 prostitution jobs?
Thanks but no thanks.
DeSantis is right. And Right.
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Miami mayor says DeSantis ‘personal vendetta’ with Disney is costing state
The Hill, May 18, 2023
Miami Mayor Francis Suarez (R) blasted Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) for his “personal vendetta” with Disney, saying that the yearlong feud has cost the state jobs and investments.
“Look, he took an issue that was a winning issue that we all agreed on, which was parental rights for K through third-graders,” Suarez told NewsNation’s Blake Burman on “The Hill.” “And it looks like now it’s something that spite or maybe potentially a personal vendetta, which has cost the state now potentially 2,000 jobs in a billion-dollar investment.”
Suarez’s comments come after Disney announced Thursday that it would be tossing its plans to build a new billion dollar office complex in Florida that was set to bring thousands of jobs to the region.
“I mean, that’s the kind of stuff that Joe Biden does, you know, he canceled the Keystone pipeline and other pipelines out of spite that cost Americans 42,000 jobs,” Suarez said, speaking of DeSantis. “And you know, one thing that he has in common with the president is he hasn’t spent much time in the private sector. And I wonder if that influences his thinking on some of this stuff.”
More:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4011492-miami-mayor-says-desantis-personal-vendetta-with-disney-is-costing-state/
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Spin it or whatever, Miami Mayor. Americans haven't lost those jobs, they will be right there in California. Last I heard, despite the rumors, California is still part of America. Besides, the gays and groomers are more likely to feel at home there.
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Get woke go broke. And good riddance.
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More:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4011492-miami-mayor-says-desantis-personal-vendetta-with-disney-is-costing-state/
Sorry, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with The Hill on this too, @Right_in_Virginia .
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It's not Ike those 2,000 jobs paying $120,000+ could have helped the local economy anyway.
Those people were being transferred, against their will in most cases. Disney would not offer high paying jobs to icky poo Floridians. Hard pass on 2,000 smug “imagineers” and their tacky office building. They can stay out west and imagineer the Black Snow White log flume for Disney Shanghai.
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I seem to recall a much different tune when it was the Commonwealth of Virginia blocking a Disney theme park from being built in Manassas. Couldn't find a NY Times hit piece on that?
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Those people were being transferred, against their will in most cases.
So? Would these 2,000 not need to pay for housing, furnishings, buy food, clothing, pay taxes? Wiould they not dine at local restaurants, enjoy local entertainment? Would they not have a salary sufficient to support doing all of this? Would local business not benefit?
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So? Would these 2,000 not need to pay for housing, furnishings, buy food, clothing, pay taxes? Wiould they not dine at local restaurants, enjoy local entertainment? Would they not have a salary sufficient to support doing all of this? Would local business not benefit?
Tell you what … recruit them to northern Virginia. They will fit right in.
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From the NY Times article:
When he announced the project in 2021, Mr. D’Amaro cited “Florida’s business-friendly climate” as justification.
Mr. D’Amaro’s tone in an email to employees on Thursday was notably chillier. He cited “changing business conditions” as a reason for canceling the Lake Nona project. “I remain optimistic about the direction of our Walt Disney World business,” Mr. D’Amaro said in the memo. He noted that $17 billion was still earmarked for construction at Disney World over the next decade — growth that would create an estimated 13,000 jobs. “I hope we’re able to,” he said.
The memo, which was viewed by The New York Times, did not mention Mr. DeSantis.
Also buried in the article:
The Lake Nona project had initially been scheduled to open next year. Last July, Disney pushed back the move-in date to 2026, citing pandemic-related construction delays.
The Lake Nona campus, about 20 miles from Disney World near the Orlando International Airport, had been championed by Bob Chapek, who served as Disney’s chief executive from 2020 until he was fired last year. Mr. Iger, who came out of retirement to retake Disney’s reins, was much less enthusiastic about the project — even before the company became mired in its battle with Mr. DeSantis. As soon as he returned to Disney, Mr. Iger began telling lieutenants, for instance, that it made little sense to move Imagineering so far away from Disney’s movie studios. As he is fond of saying, “Creative teams need to be together.”
Mr. Iger has been systematically reversing Mr. Chapek’s decisions. In February, for instance, he announced that Disney would restructure its inner workings, ending a framework put in place by Mr. Chapek. In March, as part of wide-ranging layoffs, Mr. Iger shut down a 50-person metaverse project that Mr. Chapek had started.
Disney is also in the midst of cutting $5.5 billion in costs as it seeks to improve profitability, pay down debt and restore its dividend.
So basically, what you have here is purely a business decision by Disney. Yet one particular poster here is using it to push a false narrative against the current Governor in an attempt to deceive. Not just a false narrative, but a false narrative perpetrated by perhaps the most liberal newspaper in the country.
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Tell you what … recruit them to northern Virginia. They will fit right in.
I agree. Sounds like they would welcome the Groomers with open arms.
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I agree. Sounds like they would welcome the Groomers with open arms.
Of course not @Cyber Liberty Why take such a shot because some think DeSantis has lost control of his battle with Disney and Florida's economy looks poised to pay the price. If Floridians are happy to pay that price, I personally would wish them the best and gladly stand down.
I care because DeSantis wants to follow his Florida blueprint from the Oval Office ---- and apply his strategic and negotiating acumen to our national and global economies. **nononono*
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Of course not @Cyber Liberty Why take such a shot because some think DeSantis has lost control of his battle with Disney and Florida's economy looks poised to pay the price. If Floridians are happy to pay that price, I personally would wish them the best and gladly stand down.
I care because DeSantis wants to follow his Florida blueprint from the Oval Office ---- and apply his strategic and negotiating acumen to our national and global economies. **nononono*
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I am *ALL FOR* a direct war on stakeholder corporatism, and the use of corporations to support the fascist takeover of our country - Disney among the worst.
You don't know it, but you're selling DeSantis on this subject - And its funny as hell.
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Of course not @Cyber Liberty Why take such a shot because some think DeSantis has lost control of his battle with Disney and Florida's economy looks poised to pay the price. If Floridians are happy to pay that price, I personally would wish them the best and gladly stand down.
I care because DeSantis wants to follow his Florida blueprint from the Oval Office ---- and apply his strategic and negotiating acumen to our national and global economies. **nononono*
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Damn you have lost what is left of you orange mind.
You do know that if Disney left Fl how much property could be developed for all the people leaving Blue states. It is a win win if The House Of Mouse gets TFO. Bull Dose the place to the ground.
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I seem to recall a much different tune when it was the Commonwealth of Virginia blocking a Disney theme park from being built in Manassas. Couldn't find a NY Times hit piece on that?
That was going to be on some of the Battlefield (First and Second Battles of Bull Run/Manassas--War Between the States)
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Disney is also in the midst of cutting $5.5 billion in costs as it seeks to improve profitability, pay down debt and restore its dividend.
And why are they cutting costs? Maybe to compensate for the people abandoning their stuff over "woke" crap?
Let them pout...in Cali.
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From the NY Times article:
Also buried in the article:
So basically, what you have here is purely a business decision by Disney. Yet one particular poster here is using it to push a false narrative against the current Governor in an attempt to deceive. Not just a false narrative, but a false narrative perpetrated by perhaps the most liberal newspaper in the country.
Modern, since Walt died, Disney is a cancer on the American family and way of life and everyone is better for them not expanding their rot. I fully believe the reason Disney is pulling the plug is because they let morons make queerified alphabetsouper movies that turned off normal Americans leading to huge losses, hence the laying of of thousands in their entertainment(TV and movies) division. But hey let's blame it on that big old movie DeSantis.
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Why take such a shot because some think DeSantis has lost control of his battle with Disney
You may want people to think that. But only a complete idiot would. Which is why no one here is buying the liberal bullshit you are peddling. Even the source left-wing story you cited acknowledges that Disney's decision has zero to do with DeSantis. Yet even after this is pointed out to you, you choose to double down on a lie.
and Florida's economy looks poised to pay the price.
It is Disney's economy that is paying the price - not Florida. Which is why they are backing out. If you click the link in the lead post, you will see that.
If Floridians are happy to pay that price, I personally would wish them the best and gladly stand down.
According to the last election results, it is crystal clear that Floridians are happy. But you won't stand down. You'll be back tomorrow pushing some other lie about DeSantis. And it's not Florida paying the price. It is Disney. Their initial reason for the move was to save money through tax credits that would have netted Disney $570 million over the next two decades, which you would have know had you actually read the article you linked. But they are now suffering a revenue shortage from their own stupid business decisions, making the move unaffordable.
I care because DeSantis wants to follow his Florida blueprint from the Oval Office ---- and apply his strategic and negotiating acumen to our national and global economies.
DeSantis has nothing to do with this. But you knew that already. Yet you continue pushing a lie.
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You may want people to think that. But only a complete idiot would. Which is why no one here is buying the liberal bullshit you are peddling. Even the source left-wing story you cited acknowledges that Disney's decision has zero to do with DeSantis. Yet even after this is pointed out to you, you choose to double down on a lie.
It is Disney's economy that is paying the price - not Florida. Which is why they are backing out. If you click the link in the lead post, you will see that.
According to the last election results, it is crystal clear that Floridians are happy. But you won't stand down. You'll be back tomorrow pushing some other lie about DeSantis. And it's not Florida paying the price. It is Disney. Their initial reason for the move was to save money through tax credits that would have netted Disney $570 million over the next two decades, which you would have know had you actually read the article you linked. But they are now suffering a revenue shortage from their own stupid business decisions, making the move unaffordable.
DeSantis has nothing to do with this. But you knew that already. Yet you continue pushing a lie.
You should know by now that to take anything that RIV regurgitates from TruthSocial about Ron DeSantis with a massive grain of salt. It’s the result of having an emotional bond to Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis threatens that
I would have to say that her replies in this thread is where the doubt started for me
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,491284.msg2782791.html#new
So I have learned, based on her replies in this thread, that when it comes to RDS, to always question her regurgitated talking points, unless double fact checked, verified by no less than 50 people, fact checked again, and having the pope and Jesus Christ himself verify it’s authenticity
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You may want people to think that. But only a complete idiot would. Which is why no one here is buying the liberal bullshit you are peddling. Even the source left-wing story you cited acknowledges that Disney's decision has zero to do with DeSantis. Yet even after this is pointed out to you, you choose to double down on a lie.
It is Disney's economy that is paying the price - not Florida. Which is why they are backing out. If you click the link in the lead post, you will see that.
According to the last election results, it is crystal clear that Floridians are happy. But you won't stand down. You'll be back tomorrow pushing some other lie about DeSantis. And it's not Florida paying the price. It is Disney. Their initial reason for the move was to save money through tax credits that would have netted Disney $570 million over the next two decades, which you would have know had you actually read the article you linked. But they are now suffering a revenue shortage from their own stupid business decisions, making the move unaffordable.
DeSantis has nothing to do with this. But you knew that already. Yet you continue pushing a lie.
:thumbsup:
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You should know by now that to take anything that RIV regurgitates from TruthSocial about Ron DeSantis with a massive grain of salt
Actually, as included in my posts, the sources are The New York Times and an interview from the Republican mayor of Miami with The Hill @LMAO
There are dozens are reports on this out on Al Gore's magnificent Internet. Please, feel free to post one proving your side of this debate ---- whatever the heck that may be ----- is correct.
Your "shoot the messenger" strategy is tiresome.
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It's pretty clear that the move on this project was done for internal Disney dynamics unrelated to DeSantis' actions; that, or Disney management must be able to see the future, because they put the project on hold - i.e., stopped spending money on it - back in 2021:
Spineless Republicans Beg DeSantis to Surrender to Disney in Pathetic Showing
By Bonchie
May 18, 2023
On Thursday, news broke that Disney had canceled an office complex project that was set to add 2,000 jobs to Florida’s economy. That was the headline at least. Of course, there was more to the story.
In reality, the project had been placed on hold back in 2021 and postponed to 2026 due to various financial concerns. When current CEO Bog Iger took back over the beleaguered entertainment company, that was the final nail in the coffin because he long thought the entire project was a terrible investment. Obviously, he’s right, as building large office buildings post-COVID is like setting money on fire. The fact that Disney has been hemorrhaging money overall didn’t help either, and nixing the entire project was an easy cost-cutting move.
Regardless, leave it to the press to suck up to Disney and misrepresent the entire situation. That’s exactly what The New York Times did by conflating Gov. Ron DeSantis’ battle with the company with the decision to cut the project. If you read deep enough, the Times reveals there’s no solid connection, but once a narrative is established, it’s hard to neutralize it.
https://twitter.com/varadmehta/status/1659276844481257472
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Source: https://redstate.com/bonchie/2023/05/18/spineless-republicans-beg-desantis-to-surrender-to-disney-in-pathetic-showing-n748269
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You may want people to think that. But only a complete idiot would.
Are you saying DeSantis hasn't lost control of his battle with Disney?
Is it your opinion there's no way DeSantis should have/could have been aware of a public meeting held by Disney changing the role of the BOD right before the DeSantis changes were to take effect? Or is it Ronny being blindsided was part of his plan?
Does your opinion also include DeSantis knew his admitted motivation for punishing Disney and subsequent, increasing bravado outlining additional punishments to come would be quoted chapter and verse in the lawsuit filed against him?
It is Disney's economy that is paying the price - not Florida. Which is why they are backing out.
What happens when rather than not increasing staff in Florida, Disney starts cutting it? The three main products of Florida are oranges, Disney and sunburn. So, sure, you can damage Disney's economic bottom line ----- but, the deeper their losses, the more pain for Floridian workers, businesses.and economic development.
DeSantis has nothing to do with this. But you knew that already. Yet you continue pushing a lie.
Not everyone agrees with you, including the Republican Mayor of Miami. I remind you of his assessment:
Miami Mayor Francis Suarez (R) blasted Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) for his “personal vendetta” with Disney, saying that the yearlong feud has cost the state jobs and investments.
“Look, he took an issue that was a winning issue that we all agreed on, which was parental rights for K through third-graders,” Suarez told NewsNation’s Blake Burman on “The Hill.” “And it looks like now it’s something that spite or maybe potentially a personal vendetta, which has cost the state now potentially 2,000 jobs in a billion-dollar investment.”
"I mean, that’s the kind of stuff that Joe Biden does, you know, he canceled the Keystone pipeline and other pipelines out of spite that cost Americans 42,000 jobs,” Suarez said, speaking of DeSantis. "And you know, one thing that he has in common with the president is he hasn’t spent much time in the private sector. And I wonder if that influences his thinking on some of this stuff.”
More:
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4011492-miami-mayor-says-desantis-personal-vendetta-with-disney-is-costing-state/
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Disney pulled the plug because it was a bad business decision. DeSantis inadvertantly gave Disney executives cover for their bad business acumen.
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Disney pulled the plug because it was a bad business decision. DeSantis inadvertantly gave Disney executives cover for their bad business acumen.
Since they had already put the entire project on hold in 2021, the only way DeSantis is giving them cover is if people gin up a false narrative that supplies that cover. Otherwise, the facts themselves - stubborn things they - demonstrate that there is no correlation between the two.
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Since they had already put the entire project on hold in 2021, the only way DeSantis is giving them cover is if people gin up a false narrative that supplies that cover. Otherwise, the facts themselves - stubborn things they - demonstrate that there is no correlation between the two.
Yeah... Other than Iger talking smack.
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The MSM is trying awfully hard to make Disney's announcement political, to generate stories about the mouse vs DeSantis.
However, the truth is that this is the latest of a string of bad news stories for Disney this week on the economic front.
Following Iger's recent cuts and layoffs, Disney announced that its closing its brand new Star Wars themed hotel complex (https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2023/05/19/disney-closing-star-wars-hotel/?sh=3f939b9d1288) and the new Indian Jones flick apparently was apparently underwhelming at Cannes last night (https://variety.com/2023/film/news/indiana-jones-5-cannes-standing-ovation-harrison-ford-1235615678/).
And this happened yesterday:
https://deadline.com/2023/05/disney-remove-series-streaming-disney-plus-hulu-big-shot-willow-y-dollface-turner-hooch-pistol-1235372512/
So my guess is that the mouse simply couldn't afford the new development on top of all this bad news.
Go woke, go broke!
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Disney pulled the plug because it was a bad business decision. DeSantis inadvertantly gave Disney executives cover for their bad business acumen.
They would have “punished” Florida even if DeSantis let them keep their corrupt local government. Just look at MLB and the all star game debacle. Conservatives have lost the culture war for decades out of deference to large corporations. It has to stop.
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In a society founded upon Freedom of Thought, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Worship, and individual Liberty, how can any side in the culture wars declare victory without instituting a totalitarian Government?
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I have to hand it to DeSantis. He's standing on his conservative principles and morals regardless if it's popular with the woke crowd.
Will it cost him the WH?? We shall see.
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I have to hand it to DeSantis. He's standing on his conservative principles and morals regardless if it's popular with the woke crowd.
Will it cost him the WH?? We shall see.
LOTS of pressure. He ain't moved an inch.
I like that.
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LOTS of pressure. He ain't moved an inch.
I like that.
He's holding steady. Hopefully any negativity thrown at him will only strengthen his resolve.
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They would have “punished” Florida even if DeSantis let them keep their corrupt local government. Just look at MLB and the all star game debacle. Conservatives have lost the culture war for decades out of deference to large corporations. It has to stop.
:thumbsup:
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In a society founded upon Freedom of Thought, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Worship, and individual Liberty, how can any side in the culture wars declare victory without instituting a totalitarian Government?
Uh, yeah. Removing quasi-governmental powers from a private for-profit organization is "instituting a totalitarian Government". Not sure that computes.
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It was the People's elected representatives who delegated quasi-governmental powers to a private for-profit organization in return for private investment of $billions$ in Florida swampland and orange groves.
Uh, yeah. Removing quasi-governmental powers from a private for-profit organization is "instituting a totalitarian Government". Not sure that computes.
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Since they had already put the entire project on hold in 2021, the only way DeSantis is giving them cover is if people gin up a false narrative that supplies that cover. Otherwise, the facts themselves - stubborn things they - demonstrate that there is no correlation between the two.
Disney pulled the plug because it was a bad business decision. DeSantis inadvertantly gave Disney executives cover for their bad business acumen.
And it gives Trump supporters an opportunity to post Topics just to bash DeSantis. I did not fail to note who posted this one.
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And it gives Trump supporters an opportunity to post Topics just to bash DeSantis. I did not fail to note who posted this one.
:thumbsup:
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It was the People's elected representatives who delegated quasi-governmental powers to a private for-profit organization in return for private investment of $billions$ in Florida swampland and orange groves.
And it was the Peoples' elected representatives who rescinded those extraordinary quasi-governmental powers when they felt they were abused.
I cannot believe that folks are defending this plantation.
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It was the People's elected representatives who delegated quasi-governmental powers to a private for-profit organization in return for private investment of $billions$ in Florida swampland and orange groves.
That was before Disney reneged on their plan to build the "city of tomorrow" and instead built an amusement park. Disney abused its powers by remaining in control of the district, and the legislature never had the courage to address it until now. In an effort to avoid democracy, Reedy Creek de-annexed a planned residential community known as Celebration.
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It was the People's elected representatives who delegated quasi-governmental powers to a private for-profit organization in return for private investment of $billions$ in Florida swampland and orange groves.
And now that they can see that it was a poor deal, they are rescinding those quasi-governmental powers because they have been abused by the company to which they were granted.
So what?
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And it was the Peoples' elected representatives who rescinded those extraordinary quasi-governmental powers when they felt they were abused.
I cannot believe that folks are defending this plantation.
Remember when people got upset about a Company Store?
This is a store on steroids. A plantation, if you will.
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What was Disney's sin?
But, why are those powers being rescinded?
What laws or agreements has Disney violated?
How is this whole exercise not just DeSantis' personal vandetta?
What is DeSantis' legal justification or legal theory for doing this?
... just because he can is valid.
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And it gives Trump supporters an opportunity to post Topics just to bash DeSantis. I did not fail to note who posted this one.
Yes indeed.
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Remember when people got upset about a Company Store?
This is a store on steroids. A plantation, if you will.
Exactly true - And a most trusted corporation historically - trusted with our children - who has decided to promote woke grooming.
INDEFENSIBLE. If it turned into a smoking crater it would not be enough.
And yet, people defend it.
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But, why are those powers being rescinded?
What laws or agreements has Disney violated?
How is this whole exercise not just DeSantis' personal vandetta?
Why is motive paramount? The only legitimate question is: is proper procedure being followed to rescind those powers that were previously granted?
And given that this does nothing more than put Disney back on a more even playing field with other private for-profit companies, it stretches the imagination beyond all rationality to say that they are being punished for speaking out.
They are losing special privileges because they abused those privileges, and their position in the community, to impose a particular political ideology on the community.
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What was Disney's sin?
REALLY?
But, why are those powers being rescinded?
What laws or agreements has Disney violated?
Howabout surreptitiously gaining control of its governing board and granting itself total autonomy forever? What agreement is left after that? That is a fiefdom right in the center of Florida with all but a named king.
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Ending special treatment for large corporations is actually a good reason, but that message is not coming across clearly.
That could be a winning populist message if more clearly communicated ... but that puts him in the "corporations need to pay their fare share" camp with the likes of AOC and Bernie Sanders.
Why is motive paramount? The only legitimate question is: is proper procedure being followed to rescind those powers that were previously granted?
And given that this does nothing more than put Disney back on a more even playing field with other private for-profit companies, it stretches the imagination beyond all rationality to say that they are being punished for speaking out.
They are losing special privileges because they abused those privileges, and their position in the community, to impose a particular political ideology on the community.
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Ending special treatment for large corporations is actually a good reason, but that message is not coming across clearly.
That could be a winning populist message if more clearly communicated ... but that puts him in the "corporations need to pay their fare share" camp with the likes of AOC and Bernie Sanders.
Well, with folks like you out there trumpeting the narrative that this is just some underhanded, weasely way of punishing poor, innocent Disney for voicing an opinion, it's not surprising that belief is out there.
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Optics are optics. DeSantis didn't start this effort the day he was sworn in to his first term as governor.
If DeSantis wants to position himself as a populist on taxes, he needs to present a platform for Payroll Tax relief and reform.
As a wage earner, my Federal Income Tax rate is higher than corporate and long-term capital gains tax rates. It gets worse when the Medicare and F.I.C.A tax rates are piled on top of the Federal Income Tax.
Many MAGAs are being subjected to regressive payroll taxation to the benefit of the welfare state and corporations.
Well, with folks like you out there trumpeting the narrative that this is just some underhanded, weasely way of punishing poor, innocent Disney for voicing an opinion, it's not surprising that belief is out there.
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Optics are optics. DeSantis didn't start this effort the day he was sworn in to his first term as governor.
If DeSantis wants to position himself as a populist on taxes, he needs to present a platform for Payroll Tax relief and reform.
As a wage earner, my Federal Income Tax rate is higher than corporate and long-term capital gains tax rates. It gets worse when the Medicare and F.I.C.A tax rates are piled on top of the Federal Income Tax.
Okey-dokey.
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From what I’ve read (can’t find the link), this ~$1B project is less that 10% of Disney’s ongoing development projects. So it’s a demitasse cup in the 5 gallon bucket of Disney growth in Florida.
As for forced transfer, the people whose jobs would have been moved would have been given months or over a year to make the choice and take the requisite actions to either move or find other employment. It’s not a pleasant choice, BTDTGTTS.
My company gave us 17 months notice. After a month to get organized that included a long planned trans-Atlantic cruise (35th anniversary, not something we do regularly), it took me another 3 months to find another job (it’s like a Karen-employer ritual-statement, but my new job is better). There are lots of tech companies in Silicon Valley. Similarly, there probably are lots of entertainment companies in the LA area.
I wonder whether this decision by Disney will come to bite them. Housing costs in the Land of LA aren’t as high as in Silicon Valley, but I suspect they are high enough (and commute traffic/times awful enough) that Disney is already finding difficulty recruiting new talent out of universities. That recruiting problem was the reason my former employer shut down the division for which I worked. Telling prospects that they would have to live 2 hours’ drive from work and probably would never be able to afford a home in Silicon Valley is not a compelling recruitment message. The same is true for Disney and Land of LA housing costs.
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I have to hand it to DeSantis. He's standing on his conservative principles
What conservative principles are these @libertybele ?
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And it gives Trump supporters an opportunity to post Topics just to bash DeSantis. I did not fail to note who posted this one.
If only you knew what I could be posting @Cyber Liberty :laugh:
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What conservative principles are these @libertybele ?
The ones you condemn him for.
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In a society founded upon Freedom of Thought, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Worship, and individual Liberty, how can any side in the culture wars declare victory without instituting a totalitarian Government?
No replies :pondering:
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The ones you condemn him for.
Name them,
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What conservative principles are these @libertybele ?
What originated the argument between Disney and DeSantis is the Don't Say Gay bill. DeSantis is standing his ground.
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What conservative principles are these @libertybele ?
Monogamy, faithfulness, honoring a vow?
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DeSantis is a Rat Killer.
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Actually, as included in my posts, the sources are The New York Times and an interview from the Republican mayor of Miami with The Hill @LMAO
There are dozens are reports on this out on Al Gore's magnificent Internet. Please, feel free to post one proving your side of this debate ---- whatever the heck that may be ----- is correct.
Your "shoot the messenger" strategy is tiresome.
I’m just going by your discredited posting history
If I recall, didn’t you also post a claim of a Soros endorsement when it came to RDS? You’ve been so thoroughly discredited when it comes to anything regarding RDS on this site that yes, it is fair to shoot the messenger
Remember when you asked other posters to defend a picture of RDS in his 20’s surrounded by girls with drinks in their hands as that being a new conservative standard when no one could confirm anything beyond it being a pic of a young RDS surrounded by girls with alcohol in their hands? Good times.
So I simply doubted anything you post regarding RDS from that point on. That’s what happens when you’re dishonest. I’ll do my own research when determining if he’s the next conservative savior or not and not regurgitated Trump talking points
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Florida has averaged a 3K gain in jobs per month for the last year, so the 2K liberals Disney wants to move here won't affect much.
I also imagine DeSantis' stand on Disney will more than be made up by other businesses now wanting to invest in a state that rejects woke.
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Florida has averaged a 3K gain in jobs per month for the last year, so the 2K liberals Disney wants to move here won't affect much.
I also imagine DeSantis' stand on Disney will more than be made up by other businesses now wanting to invest in a state that rejects woke.
Nice. Another feather in DeSantis' cap.
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What originated the argument between Disney and DeSantis is the Don't Say Gay bill. DeSantis is standing his ground.
On what conservative/constitutional principle is DeSantis standing his ground @libertybele ?
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Monogamy, faithfulness, honoring a vow?
So, Ronny's at war with Disney based on the conservative and constitutional principle of monogamy? 000hehehehe
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This link has the info I referred to above, https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/chris-queen/2023/05/19/disney-cancels-1-billion-project-in-florida-but-not-for-the-reason-the-media-wants-you-to-believe-n1696612 .
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This link has the info I referred to above, https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/chris-queen/2023/05/19/disney-cancels-1-billion-project-in-florida-but-not-for-the-reason-the-media-wants-you-to-believe-n1696612 .
Good information.
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On what conservative/constitutional principle is DeSantis standing his ground @libertybele ?
I'll simplify it for you; he is standing against wokeness.
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This link has the info I referred to above, https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/chris-queen/2023/05/19/disney-cancels-1-billion-project-in-florida-but-not-for-the-reason-the-media-wants-you-to-believe-n1696612 .
Thanks @PeteS in CA
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On what conservative/constitutional principle is DeSantis standing his ground @libertybele ?
You're kidding, right?
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So, Ronny's at war with Disney based on the conservative and constitutional principle of monogamy? 000hehehehe
I was talking about what your boy doesn't actually believe in, but you are so far up his anus that his failures in those respect just don't matter, any more than your asinine emoji responses. No matter how much mud you throw at DeSantis the smear won't cover up Trump's lacking. While there is no argument Trump was illegally targeted by the democrats and feebs what is coming more clear about his lack of faithfulness in his most personal life and his constant childish lies and name calling of others is what will keep me from voting Trump a third time. While the democrats excuse infidelity as 'just sex' I see it in a completely different light. You can post this crap every day until the election and the only people who will cheer it are the handful of people who will vote Trump even if he killed someone on the street, I would say the grab em by the bleep thing is pretty much fact, I don't think you will change a single persons mind.
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I was talking about what your boy doesn't actually believe in, but you are so far up his anus that his failures in those respect just don't matter, any more than your asinine emoji responses. No matter how much mud you throw at DeSantis the smear won't cover up Trump's lacking. While there is no argument Trump was illegally targeted by the democrats and feebs what is coming more clear about his lack of faithfulness in his most personal life and his constant childish lies and name calling of others is what will keep me from voting Trump a third time. While the democrats excuse infidelity as 'just sex' I see it in a completely different light. You can post this crap every day until the election and the only people who will cheer it are the handful of people who will vote Trump even if he killed someone on the street, I would say the grab em by the bleep thing is pretty much fact, I don't think you will change a single persons mind.
My, my ---- this is such a hostile, rambling word salad; and so unnecessary. All you had to do was explain that you misunderstood my question instead of posting a near psychotic reply.
Whatever floats your boat, I suppose. :shrug:
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@libertybele @roamer_1
I'm asking a serious and necessary question: On what conservative/constitutional principle is DeSantis standing his ground in his fight against Disney? I'm not asking what he's fighting, or why.
Where do these conservative principles fit with the actions taken by DeSantis and his administration?
Conservative principle: Individual Freedom
Individual, God-given liberties should be preserved against government intrusion. The purpose of government is to secure the unalienable rights to life, liberty, conscience, free speech, the free exercise of religion, and the ability to pursue happiness, own property, build wealth and self-defense.
Conservative principle: The Rule of Law
Ours is "a government of laws and not of men," and the rule of law is the foundation. Justice must be administered equally and impartially to all. All of government must adhere to the Constitution of the United States.
Conservative principle: Free Markets
Competition should be encouraged, and government intervention and regulation should be limited.
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Another Conservative principle .... #7 which you left off...
7. Human Dignity
Because all men are created equal and in the image of God, every human life has inestimable dignity and value, and every person should be measured only by the content of their character. A just government protects life, honors marriage and family as the primary institutions of a healthy society, and embraces the vital cultural influences of religion and morality. Public policy should always encourage education and emphasize the virtue of hard work as a pathway out of-poverty, while public assistance programs should be reserved only for those who are truly in need. In America, everyone who plays by the rules should get a fair shot. By preserving these ideals, we will maintain the goodness of America that has been the secret to our greatness.
You can guess which positions DeSantis has stood behind vs Trump. Honors marriage (without the multiple affairs?)... Embraces VITAL cultural influences of religion and morality... Compare abortion positions and who is attacking another for a strong stance not being "NY values".
@libertybele @roamer_1
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Another Conservative principle ....
It has nothing to do with Ronny's battle with Disney. Reread what you posted @Sighlass :
"A just government protects life, honors marriage and family as the primary institutions of a healthy society, and embraces the vital cultural influences of religion and morality.
FWIW, "honoring" and "embracing" are not the same as forcing behavior using the strong arm of the government. Honoring and embracing requires targeting hearts and minds ----- something conservatives loathe because it's hard.
Until the Constitution of the United States is repealed, we remain a Constitutional Republic based on the the rule of law, not the passions of zealots from any part of the political spectrum, including conservatives. We are not a Christian Theocracy. Try and understand the difference.
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I'll simplify it for you; he is standing against wokeness.
He will need to be more than standing against wokeness. If he were to win the presidency, he will inherit a national debt with GDP ratio well over 120% and at higher interest rate. So far no candidate on either side of the aisle for president has mentioned that. Both Trump and Biden want to spend us further into oblivion so that disqualifies them both as far as I’m concerned
The first candidate who makes that issue part of their campaign will get my vote
“Standing against wokeness” isn’t high on the list of issues that fire up the electorate at large
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It has nothing to do with Ronny's battle with Disney. Reread what you posted @Sighlass :
FWIW, "honoring" and "embracing" are not the same as forcing behavior using the strong arm of the government.
DeSantis is removing Disney's special tax status that it has enjoyed for decades. Govt shouldn't be involved in picking winners and losers in business, he just is leveling the playing field to make it more fair. Disney can do what it wants from there, DeSantis isn't forcing anything, in fact just the opposite. Certainly Disney shouldn't be pushing grooming, mutilating and human trafficking kids and still enjoy a tax free status.
Nice try, but your theory doesn't hold water.
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If Biden was targeting a corporation this way for opposing his agenda, would that be ok?
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DeSantis is removing Disney's special tax status that it has enjoyed for decades. Govt shouldn't be involved in picking winners and losers in business, he just is leveling the playing field to make it more fair. Disney can do what it wants from there, DeSantis isn't forcing anything, in fact just the opposite. Certainly Disney shouldn't be pushing grooming, mutilating and human trafficking kids and still enjoy a tax free status.
Nice try, but your theory doesn't hold water.
Would RDS be targeting Disney if they supported his agenda? I get and support the belief that government shouldn’t be picking winners and losers in a free market economy. But I have a sense that RDS isn’t doing this because he believes in the free market
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Would RDS be targeting Disney if they supported his agenda? I get and support the belief that government shouldn’t be picking winners and losers in a free market economy. But I have a sense that RDS isn’t doing this because he believes in the free market
I would say if that's the litmus test that disqualifies him, then vote accordingly.
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I would say if that's the litmus test that disqualifies him, then vote accordingly.
I am leaning towards RDS for now as his record on spending while in Congress was far superior to Trump’s while president
But I cringe when government targets people or companies for wrong think. Of course, that then strengthens the argument for keeping business and government separate
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I am leaning towards RDS for now as his record on spending while in Congress was far superior to Trump’s while president
But I cringe when government targets people or companies for wrong think. Of course, that then strengthens the argument for keeping business and government separate
You could look at it that way, but the agreement was in force long before RDS became Governor. Suddenly refusing to honor the agreement because of it's special tax status might have been the right thing to do, but the wrong way to do it had Disney been operating in good faith.
With Disney wading into and strong arming their politics, good faith is out the window, and it gave RDS more than reason to level the playing field and end something that should have never happened.
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Name them,
Equal protection, property rights, State empowerment, fiscal responsibility, limited government, etc. You know,. The things that Trump is not.
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@libertybele @roamer_1
I'm asking a serious and necessary question: On what conservative/constitutional principle is DeSantis standing his ground in his fight against Disney? I'm not asking what he's fighting, or why.
Where do these conservative principles fit with the actions taken by DeSantis and his administration?
You're leading the question a bit, @Right_in_Virginia ... by categorical selection...
So I will start here:
Foremost he rose to protect the principles of the Christian Right, as found in the Greater Judeo-Christian Ethic. Those precepts are located in any Bible you might care to look at, but primarily found in Torah and the words of Christ. It is our moral root, and out sense of right and wrong.
If you cannot understand that a trusted corporation serving children, found to be grooming children, sexualizing them, is wrong beyond the pale, then we can stop right here, because you will understand nothing further.
FINALLY social conservatives have a champion, who rose sword in hand, to defend the very basic concept of something being damnwell wrong, that needs to be put down.
That's the cause.
And in the fix, he chose to put actual teeth in the Reedy Creek agreement, for the first time in a long time. He replaced the Reedy Creek Board with people who would protect the State's interest, creating leverage against an otherwise self governing corporation, who has been operating it's own little fiefdom for decades, largely free of the authority of the sovereign state of Florida.
Personally, I think he should go WAY further - Now that the court has decided that corporations are individuals, then the corporation becomes subject to the laws against pedophilia and grooming proper, and the law should be applied to arrest the corporation as a singular entity and convict it as a singular entity, and send it to jail... and when it gets out, make sure it registers as a sexual predator and pedophile.
Just desserts.
Now, on to your question:
Conservative principle: Individual Freedom
Individual, God-given liberties should be preserved against government intrusion. The purpose of government is to secure the unalienable rights to life, liberty, conscience, free speech, the free exercise of religion, and the ability to pursue happiness, own property, build wealth and self-defense.
Individual freedom is limited purposefully by the sovereign state. That's what laws are for. Incidental to this issue, with the exception of the fact that the laws of the State are no longer selectively withheld from Disney, and that Disney is being made subject to them.
Conservative principle: The Rule of Law
Ours is "a government of laws and not of men," and the rule of law is the foundation. Justice must be administered equally and impartially to all. All of government must adhere to the Constitution of the United States.
In fact DeSantis is fixing this by his actions. None of the other resorts in Florida have such a buddy deal as is found in Reedy Creek. There is no reason whatsoever why Disney should not have to function under the very same regulations as every other corporation, and specifically, resort, as found throughout the state. They don't have such autonomy. This is leveling the playing field. This is creating 'equality and impartiality' (at least in the eyes of those other corporations, who suffer the regulations the state imposes), removing a decades-old good ol boy agreement.
Note that I am not against such agreements - But they are not sacrosanct or perpetual, or the state has ignored its duty to the People. And Disney has long benefited by it... More than satisfying any agreement there was.
Conservative principle: Free Markets
Competition should be encouraged, and government intervention and regulation should be limited.
Again, no injury, and actually provided for in the 'equality and impartiality' mentioned above, if Reedy Creek is dissolved.
... All that remembering of course, the first cause... Defending a woke, grooming corporation's autonomy against the legitimate sovereignty of the state is unconscionable. It is only proper that the state remove its favor and bring its authority to bear.
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“Standing against wokeness” isn’t high on the list of issues that fire up the electorate at large
You have not been watching Butt Light fall from grace, I take it. The electorate is surely fired up against the Woke theology, and the insidious use of stakeholder corporatism. This is nail, right on the head.
And because he champions this issue does not mean he cannot walk and chew gum at the same time... I have not dug deeply, but it seems he has given TEA no short shrift. He has remained as he was in Congress. Predictably, that makes him the best bet in decades in fiscal and libertarian issues.
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DeSantis is removing Disney's special tax status that it has enjoyed for decades. Govt shouldn't be involved in picking winners and losers in business, he just is leveling the playing field to make it more fair. Disney can do what it wants from there, DeSantis isn't forcing anything, in fact just the opposite. Certainly Disney shouldn't be pushing grooming, mutilating and human trafficking kids and still enjoy a tax free status.
Nice try, but your theory doesn't hold water.
Precisely right.
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If Biden was targeting a corporation this way for opposing his agenda, would that be ok?
Biden and the left target corporations all the time.
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I am leaning towards RDS for now as his record on spending while in Congress was far superior to Trump’s while president
But I cringe when government targets people or companies for wrong think. Of course, that then strengthens the argument for keeping business and government separate
This isn't merely 'wrong think'... this is WRONG. Two very different things.
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Another Conservative principle .... #7 which you left off...
7. Human Dignity
That's right - But beyond that, Disney is practicing (with impunity, favor) violations of the Judeo-Christian Ethic, which is our sense of right and wrong, upon which (or through the prism of) our laws are written.
It's all the rage that corporations cannot/should not be moral, but that is exactly why they have become a tool of the left - Supplanting right and wrong with another moral sense as found in stakeholder corporatism.
Here's another conservative principle for you - There is no moral neutral. Wherever you are on the scale between morality and immorality, you are serving under a moral aegis.
So as in all things, you must draw a hard line. Stakeholder corporatism is trying to draw that line across what less than a generation ago was known as evil, and calling it good.
If no one rises to defend, that line will be drawn for you.
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DeSantis is removing Disney's special tax status that it has enjoyed for decades. Govt shouldn't be involved in picking winners and losers in business, he just is leveling the playing field to make it more fair. Disney can do what it wants from there, DeSantis isn't forcing anything, in fact just the opposite. Certainly Disney shouldn't be pushing grooming, mutilating and human trafficking kids and still enjoy a tax free status.
Nice try, but your theory doesn't hold water.
Indeed.
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DeSantis is removing Disney's special tax status that it has enjoyed for decades.
Here's the nub: Desantis admits in his recent book that Disney speaking out against Florida's Don't Say Gay bill was both his motivation for and what made these changes possible after all these decades. The jackass then went on to publicly up the ante by itemizing additional retaliatory actions he's considering ---- adding "anything is possible".
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Here's the nub: Desantis admits in his recent book that Disney speaking out against Florida's Don't Say Gay bill was both his motivation for and what made these changes possible after all these decades.
You're talking about a book that was written months before Florida's "Parental Rights in Education" bill became law. btw, only liberals (falsely) call it "Florida's Don't Say Gay bill".
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That's right - But beyond that, Disney is practicing (with impunity, favor) violations of the Judeo-Christian Ethic.
Where does the Constitution give the government the right to punish or eliminate those who do not act in accordance with your personal interpretation of a religious doctrine?
@roamer_1
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Where does the Constitution give the government the right to punish or eliminate those who do not act in accordance with your personal interpretation of a religious doctrine?
Amendment X. For States, anyway. Not that this is actually what happened. Hypothetically, of course.
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Biden and the left target corporations all the time.
You didn't answer the question asked.
Is it the right thing to do and do you agree with Biden taking action?
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The Constitutional thing to do here is to apply Equal Protection. Which is exactly what Governor DeSantis did.
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Where does the Constitution give the government the right to punish or eliminate those who do not act in accordance with your personal interpretation of a religious doctrine?
@roamer_1
Who said anything about the Constitution? This is State law. @Right_in_Virginia
And it has nothing to do with religion. It has to do with ethics. And ethics are what drive our laws.
There is no ethical (moral) neutral.
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You didn't answer the question asked.
Is it the right thing to do and do you agree with Biden taking action?
Incidental to the question, as this is state law, which is different than federal, and swings a much wider swath. And even in that, it depends upon the purpose and consequence wrt 'right thing to do'.
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The Constitutional thing to do here is to apply Equal Protection. Which is exactly what Governor DeSantis did.
That's right.
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Incidental to the question, as this is state law, which is different than federal, and swings a much wider swath. And even in that, it depends upon the purpose and consequence wrt 'right thing to do'.
State law and/or actions cannot strip individuals or entities of rights and protections guaranteed under the Constitution of the United States. Not even Florida.
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The Constitutional thing to do here is to apply Equal Protection. Which is exactly what Governor DeSantis did.
No, the thing here is to apply the First Amendment.
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State law and/or actions cannot strip individuals or entities of rights and protections guaranteed under the Constitution of the United States. Not even Florida.
DeSantis has not stripped rights from anyone, nor attempted to.
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No, the thing here is to apply the First Amendment.
Nonsense. One cannot imagine a bigger megaphone than Disney has.
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Who said anything about the Constitution? This is State law. @Right_in_Virginia
State law/action does not trump the guaranteed rights and protections in the US Constitution.
Here are your previous statements @roamer_1 :
Foremost he rose to protect the principles of the Christian Right, as found in the Greater Judeo-Christian Ethic.
Disney is practicing (with impunity, favor) violations of the Judeo-Christian Ethic
Remembering the United States is a nation founded on the rule of law, not men (and is not a Theocracy) ----- Tell us what law Disney has broken.
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DeSantis has not stripped rights from anyone, nor attempted to.
This is now up to the courts to sort through.
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Nonsense. One cannot imagine a bigger megaphone than Disney has.
You're helping the plaintiff here :laugh:
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This link has the info I referred to above, https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/chris-queen/2023/05/19/disney-cancels-1-billion-project-in-florida-but-not-for-the-reason-the-media-wants-you-to-believe-n1696612 .
Yup. A quote from the NYT hitpiece contained in that article:
The Lake Nona campus, about 20 miles from Disney World near the Orlando International Airport, had been championed by Bob Chapek, who served as Disney’s chief executive from 2020 until he was fired last year. Mr. Iger, who came out of retirement to retake Disney’s reins, was much less enthusiastic about the project — even before the company became mired in its battle with Mr. DeSantis. As soon as he returned to Disney, Mr. Iger began telling lieutenants, for instance, that it made little sense to move Imagineering so far away from Disney’s movie studios. As he is fond of saying, “Creative teams need to be together.”
Mr. Iger has been systematically reversing Mr. Chapek’s decisions. In February, for instance, he announced that Disney would restructure its inner workings, ending a framework put in place by Mr. Chapek. In March, as part of wide-ranging layoffs, Mr. Iger shut down a 50-person metaverse project that Mr. Chapek had started [emphasis added].
Basically, cancellation of this project had nothing to do with DeSantis.
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State law/action does not trump the guaranteed rights and protections in the US Constitution.
Here are your previous statements @roamer_1 :
Remembering the United States is a nation founded on the rule of law, not men (and is not a Theocracy) ----- Tell us what law Disney has broken.
Wow! My Sunday surprise! You will actually defend the LGBT+ crowd for an opportunity to bash DeSantis.
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No, the thing here is to apply the First Amendment.
@Right_in_Virginia
Here it is yet again:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
How is the First Amendment being violated? You have been asked this question each and every time you have brought up the First Amendment. And each and every time, you fail to make a case. It leads me to believe that you are simply blurting out whatever crap you read in left-wing DeSantis-bashing narratives with no clue what it means. And more importantly, no regard for whether it is true or even makes sense. So again we reach this crossroad. Except this time, you have had four previous opportunities to analyze whether or not the statement is true. Which leads me to believe that deep down you know it isn't true, yet you parrot the words anyway in order to deceive others here. There is a word for people who do that.
So here again is another opportunity for you. Either show exactly how the First Amendment is related to this conversation, or admit that it does not. Anything else shows you that 'truth' simply isn't something you care about. But I suspect we already know the answer to that.
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Wow! My Sunday surprise! You will actually defend the LGBT+ crowd for an opportunity to bash DeSantis.
Amazing, isn't it.
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Remembering the United States is a nation founded on the rule of law, not men (and is not a Theocracy) ----- Tell us what law Disney has broken.
Whoa, hold on. You just switched arguments here. (See: Logical fallacy - Strawman argument). How about instead you tell us what law DeSantis broke since that has been the gist of your argument since you began parroting Disney's weak legal arguments on the other thread.
No one here is saying that Disney broke the law (which you know full well). So how about you backing up your own argument instead. How is it 'illegal' to apply Equal Protection to companies doing business in Florida?
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State law/action does not trump the guaranteed rights and protections in the US Constitution.
What Constitutional right or protection is being violated here? Please be specific. And please don't do what Democrats do by blurting out generic statements of unconstitutionality without being able to explain the violation. I hate it when people do that. It lacks intelligence and critical thought. And more importantly, it lacks integrity. So don't be one of those people. Step up and make your case. Pinpoint the right or protection that is being violated. Here's a link that you may find helpful: https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution
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Wow! My Sunday surprise! You will actually defend the LGBT+ crowd for an opportunity to bash DeSantis.
@Cyber Liberty I am defending the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States -- And you know that.
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What Constitutional right or protection is being violated here? Please be specific.
Already done multiple times, on this very thread. Use your scroll buttons and catch up.
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@Cyber Liberty I am defending the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States -- And you know that.
No, you're not.
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Already done multiple times, on this very thread. Use your scroll buttons and catch up.
Nowhere in this thread or the previous thread have you cited a single word of the Constitution. Either you can make your case or you cannot. And so far, it is clear that you cannot. Yet here you are again piling lie on top of lie. Do you know what that makes you?
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Here's Amendment I again for reference. I'm making it easy for you:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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@Cyber Liberty I am defending the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States -- And you know that.
I also know that any club will do when trashing DeSantis.
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I also know that any club will do when trashing DeSantis.
So, should I assume you're perfectly fine with further weakening the Constitution ----- if it helps DeSantis @Cyber Liberty
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Nowhere in this thread or the previous thread have you cited a single word of the Constitution. Either you can make your case or you cannot. And so far, it is clear that you cannot. Yet here you are again piling lie on top of lie. Do you know what that makes you?
I wasn't talking about Trump. I was talking about you. And you accepted it as fact and repeated it on this forum. But you know this. Also, you were asked repeatedly to point out how Amendment I had been violated. And each and every time, you remained silent. But you know that, too.
I posted reports on the lawsuit with a caution the Supremes ruled corporations have First Amendment protections.....a 5-4 decisions carried by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy.
The claim made by the Disney Corporation in their suit (which I pointed out at least half a dozen times) is that the actions taken by DeSantis and his administration are retaliation for their objection to Ron's "Don't Say Gay" bill --- which, they claim, is a violation of their First Amendment rights and protections.
Disney cited chapter and verse the actions taken, Ron's admission in his book what motivated the actions and the very public actions Ron threatened to take in the future, including building a high security prison next to the Disney theme park.
All I've done is report. So, don't shoot the messenger, bro. :shrug:
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So, should I assume you're perfectly fine with further weakening the Constitution ----- if it helps DeSantis @Cyber Liberty
Its been pointed out to you countless times DeSantis did not break (or bend) the Constitution.
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State law/action does not trump the guaranteed rights and protections in the US Constitution.
No rights were violated.
Remembering the United States is a nation founded on the rule of law, not men (and is not a Theocracy) ----- Tell us what law Disney has broken.
Quit trying to bend what I said. I very specifically said the matter was about ethics, not religion. The Judeo-Christian Ethic specifically, which is our collective sense of right and wrong. And that Ethic is what stands behind every law.
Who said any law was broken? Who said it was necessary? Had law been broken there would have been arrests, and things would have gone a different direction.
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@Cyber Liberty I am defending the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States -- And you know that.
No, you're not.
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Its been pointed out to you countless times DeSantis did not break (or bend) the Constitution.
The usual suspects have knee jerked that opinion to me...but that's to be expected @Cyber Liberty --
Win, lose or draw in court, Ronny made a self-inflicted strategic blunder ____ and it's going to splash all over the entire Republican party and every Republican candidate.
I posted reports on the lawsuit with a caution the Supremes ruled corporations have First Amendment protections.....a 5-4 decisions carried by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy.
The claim made by the Disney Corporation in their suit (which I pointed out at least half a dozen times) is that the actions taken by DeSantis and his administration are retaliation for their objection to Ron's "Don't Say Gay" bill --- which, they claim, is a violation of their First Amendment rights and protections.
Disney cited chapter and verse the actions taken, Ron's admission in his book what motivated the actions and the very public actions Ron threatened to take in the future, including building a high security prison next to the Disney theme park.
All I've done is report. So, don't shoot the messenger, bro. :shrug:
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No, you're not.
Discussing this issue with you, I've become more acquainted with your Constitutional acumen. Stop digging. :seeya:
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No rights were violated.
That's not up to you, or me, or Ronny. It's now up to the courts. :shrug:
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Discussing this issue with you, I've become more acquainted with your Constitutional acumen. Stop digging. :seeya:
:laugh:
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DeSantis seeks to disqualify judge in Disney case
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/desantis-seeks-to-disqualify-judge-in-disney-case/ar-AA1bqfyo
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I posted reports on the lawsuit with a caution the Supremes ruled corporations have First Amendment protections.....a 5-4 decisions carried by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy.
The claim made by the Disney Corporation in their suit (which I pointed out at least half a dozen times) is that the actions taken by DeSantis and his administration are retaliation for their objection to Ron's "Don't Say Gay" bill --- which, they claim, is a violation of their First Amendment rights and protections.
Disney cited chapter and verse the actions taken, Ron's admission in his book what motivated the actions and the very public actions Ron threatened to take in the future, including building a high security prison next to the Disney theme park.
All I've done is report. So, don't shoot the messenger, bro. :shrug:
So now you pile dishonesty on top of dishonesty? Here was my response to that week-old post:
In the preceding post, you will find three of your posts that directly contradict your 'I'm only the messenger' schtick. But then you knew that already. So option two is the only plausible explanation. Continue to play dumb about it, showing everyone here that you intentionally posted something that you knew not to be true in order to deceive other posters here.
You aren't a messenger. You are actively pushing a claim that DeSantis violated the Constitution. And you continue to do so knowing full well that you can't cite a single passage in the Constitution that is being violated. In simpler words, you are intentionally pushing a false narrative - one you know not to be true - and you continue to do so again and again even when called on it. It is the very definition of 'lying'. It is what liars do.
So I will give you a sixth opportunity to come clean. Either show how and where the Constitution was violated, or admit that you are full of it and that DeSantis did not do what you have falsely accused him of doing repeatedly.
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The usual suspects have knee jerked that opinion to me...but that's to be expected @Cyber Liberty --
Win, lose or draw in court, Ronny made a self-inflicted strategic blunder ____
What was the blunder?
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DeSantis seeks to disqualify judge in Disney case
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/desantis-seeks-to-disqualify-judge-in-disney-case/ar-AA1bqfyo
DeSantis requesting a judge that is fair and impartial? Oh the horror!!!
Gotta love that. A Republican who is willing to fight. If only Trump had taken that same initiative when dealing with rogue Justice Department employees.
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@Cyber Liberty I am defending the rule of law and the Constitution of the United States -- And you know that.
No, you aren't.
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Its been pointed out to you countless times DeSantis did not break (or bend) the Constitution.
The derangement syndrome is strong in that one.
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Discussing this issue with you, I've become more acquainted with your Constitutional acumen. Stop digging. :seeya:
As always, resorting to worthless ad hominem...
Kinda means you're out of bullets... :shrug::whistle:
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The derangement syndrome is strong in that one.
And getting worse and this is only the beginning of the campaign season.
DeSantis should be making his announcement this week; she'll go full Trumpian.
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And getting worse and this is only the beginning of the campaign season.
DeSantis should be making his announcement this week; she'll go full Trumpian.
She could go full orange retard.
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She could go full orange retard.
Time to take off the orange colored glasses and start looking at reality.
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Time to take off the orange colored glasses and start looking at reality.
Trump Leghumping is like Brokeback Mountaining. They don't know how to quit the orange. It's almost like a gay thing.
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Discussing this issue with you, I've become more acquainted with your Constitutional acumen. Stop digging. :seeya:
:mauslaff:
Coming from you, that's rich. At this point, one is surprised you can even spell the word "constitution" let alone read the words in which it's written.
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I thought Donald “allowed for” the termination of the constitution back in December. She must be citing the new & improved first amendment, as edited by Donald with his sharpie (undoubtedly the same one used to perfect the National Hurricane Center weather map).
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Trump Leghumping is like Brokeback Mountaining. They don't know how to quit the orange. It's almost like a gay thing.
You would know. :shrug:
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one is surprised you can even spell the word "constitution" let alone read the words in which it's written.
Would you like to try again, maybe post a cogent thought expressed in English?
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And getting worse and this is only the beginning of the campaign season.
DeSantis should be making his announcement this week; she'll go full Trumpian.
Bite me @libertybele
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Bite me @libertybele
Truth hurts a little bit?
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Already done multiple times, on this very thread. Use your scroll buttons and catch up.
Obviously by your reply you have no valid answer.
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Bite me @libertybele
Still unable to identify a single part of the Constitution that has been violated. And still lacking the integrity to concede it.
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Still unable to identify a single part of the Constitution that has been violated. And still lacking the integrity to concede it.
Ouch! It's a funny thing how truth prevails.
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Reedy Creek (Disney) has been cutting some corners lately. Keep in mind the daily population is anywhere from 100-300k.
https://wdwnt.com/2023/05/reedy-creek-fire-department-approves-new-employment-contract-for-raises-more-staffing/
“We were having a major recruitment problem previously,” Shirey said. “So we’re very happy. Our daily firefighters staffing will go from a minimum of 32 firefighters to 44 by the end of this contract.” They’ll also eventually have four extra ambulances and a staffed ladder truck.
Shirey expressed gratitude toward the state takeover of the Reedy Creek Improvement District, stating “Ever since then, it’s been a completely different experience for us.”
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It has nothing to do with Ronny's battle with Disney. Reread what you posted @Sighlass :
It has everything to do with his battle... and I brought up something you just paraphrased and didn't bother to post the whole of because it didn't suit your argument.
FWIW, "honoring" and "embracing" are not the same as forcing behavior using the strong arm of the government.
I have an old Probate Judge book from my family (1900s) that included some local small town court cases... Spitting in public, cursing around women, drunken behavior, were some of the charges. So I disagree, morality in the US was based on a Christian background and backed up with laws. Thomas Jefferson wrote the 1786 Act for religious freedom in the Virginia...
Well aware that Almighty God hath created the mind free, that all attempts to influence it by temporal punishments or burthens, or by civil incapacitations, tend only to beget habits of hypocrisy and meanness, and are a departure from the plan of the Holy Author of our religion, who, being Lord both of body and mind, yet chose not to propagate it by coercions on either, as was in his Almighty power to do...
The above contains four clear and unambiguous acknowledgments of God... Lets see... Holy Author of "OUR" religion"... Jefferson made several such references throughout his time... even up until his final State of the Union address...
]Until the Constitution of the United States is repealed, we remain a Constitutional Republic based on the the rule of law, not the passions of zealots from any part of the political spectrum, including conservatives. We are not a Christian Theocracy. Try and understand the difference.
We are not to establish one religious sect over others. We are strongly founded as a Christian nation, try and understand the difference (<---to throw your snear back at you).
You are starting to sound like a leftist that cheers when schools don't allow Christian Valedicitorians to mention God. The founders honored God at most every chance. Giving way to the left using legislation against "hate" against everything they wanted glorified (homosexuality/abortion). How can government make a "Pride month" without also stepping on religious freedoms of normal people. The banner of "Civil Rights" made it where a person's own business could not discriminate due to religion or race... Was it reasonable to to say the government shall be the conscience of the individual? Does that accord with principles of freedom of religion? Does the right to practice a religion include the right to believe that a religion confers character benefits upon those that embrace it?
Jefferson once talked about how proud he was that the local county court house offered it's doors to four religious sects (one weekend per month) to use.
Me thinks you read too much ACLU.
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Truth hurts a little bit?
No @libertybele But it is sad to witness the personal lowlife you've become.
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Obviously by your reply you have no valid answer.
Keep scrolling @libertybele ---- You missed it
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No @libertybele But it is sad to witness the personal lowlife you've become.
Still unable to identify a single part of the Constitution that has been violated.
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And still lacking the integrity to concede it.
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I have an old Probate Judge book from my family (1900s) that included some local small town court cases... Spitting in public, cursing around women, drunken behavior, were some of the charges. So I disagree, morality in the US was based on a Christian background and backed up with laws
I never said otherwise @Sighlass But, there is a world of difference between breaking a law and breaking a religious code of ethics pointing-down as was claimed:
That's right - But beyond that, Disney is practicing (with impunity, favor) violations of the Judeo-Christian Ethic.
We are not to establish one religious sect over others. We are strongly founded as a Christian nation, try and understand the difference
The Founders also went out of their way to make sure every American generation following theirs would understand the United States is a nation founded on the rule of law, not men-- and the rule of law is defined in the Constitution of the United States, not any religious document.
You are starting to sound like a leftist that cheers when schools don't allow Christian Valedicitorians to mention God.
Why on Earth would I do that?
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Still unable to identify a single part of the Constitution that has been violated. And still lacking the integrity to concede it.
I posted reports on the lawsuit with a caution the Supremes ruled corporations have First Amendment protections.....a 5-4 decisions carried by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy.
The claim made by the Disney Corporation in their suit (which I pointed out at least half a dozen times) is that the actions taken by DeSantis and his administration are retaliation for their objection to Ron's "Don't Say Gay" bill --- which, they claim, is a violation of their First Amendment rights and protections.
Disney cited chapter and verse the actions taken, Ron's admission in his book what motivated the actions and the very public actions Ron threatened to take in the future, including building a high security prison next to the Disney theme park.
All I've done is report. So, don't shoot the messenger, bro. :shrug:
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Ouch! It's a funny thing how truth prevails.
@libertybele
I posted reports on the lawsuit with a caution the Supremes ruled corporations have First Amendment protections.....a 5-4 decisions carried by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy.
The claim made by the Disney Corporation in their suit (which I pointed out at least half a dozen times) is that the actions taken by DeSantis and his administration are retaliation for their objection to Ron's "Don't Say Gay" bill --- which, they claim, is a violation of their First Amendment rights and protections.
Disney cited chapter and verse the actions taken, Ron's admission in his book what motivated the actions and the very public actions Ron threatened to take in the future, including building a high security prison next to the Disney theme park.
All I've done is report. So, don't shoot the messenger, bro. :shrug:
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I never said otherwise @Sighlass But, there is a world of difference between breaking a law and breaking a religious code of ethics pointing-down as was claimed:
So a state should not act ethically? And in *not* taking action, and acting ethically, isn't that state standing on a different ethic, endorsing, at least by implication, the very ethic espoused by Disney? An ethic that extends to child grooming for the weirdos, and all but endorsing pedophilia?
Since it is not a matter of law, it is not a matter of punishment or coercion... The problem with good ol boy participation is that the blessings bestowed are unearned, and depend upon continuing to be a good ol boy. That is an ethical position and not a matter of law. Had the law been enforced equally, then the special privilege would not have existed for all these decades.
The Founders also went out of their way to make sure every American generation following theirs would understand the United States is a nation founded on the rule of law, not men-- and the rule of law is defined in the Constitution of the United States, not any religious document.
You've really never read our founding documents, have you?
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So, apparently, the Constitution is a convenient way to immunize one's self from government regulation - do or say one thing that some top government official does not like, and - as per RiV - suddenly, anything the government might do that affects you is an unconstitutional attack on your right to freedom of speech.
How very convenient, and how essentially liberal - but then, we knew all along that Trump was essentially liberal, and his cultists are now proving that contention out.
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No @libertybele But it is sad to witness the personal lowlife you've become.
Don't call fellow Briefers names like that.
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Don't call fellow Briefers names like that.
That's right. Not to mention the damnable lie of it. **nononono* :nono:
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So a state should not act ethically? And in *not* taking action, and acting ethically, isn't that state standing on a different ethic, endorsing, at least by implication, the very ethic espoused by Disney? An ethic that extends to child grooming for the weirdos, and all but endorsing pedophilia?
Since it is not a matter of law, it is not a matter of punishment or coercion... The problem with good ol boy participation is that the blessings bestowed are unearned, and depend upon continuing to be a good ol boy. That is an ethical position and not a matter of law. Had the law been enforced equally, then the special privilege would not have existed for all these decades.
Complete :bs: Rabbi.
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So, apparently, the Constitution is a convenient way to immunize one's self from government regulation - do or say one thing that some top government official does not like, and - as per RiV - suddenly, anything the government might do that affects you is an unconstitutional attack on your right to freedom of speech.
It's not "as per RiV" @Kamaji The charge is brought by Disney Corporation. Now settle down like a good little boy and let the courts handle it.
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No @libertybele But it is sad to witness the personal lowlife you've become.
With that said, I'll do us both a favor and put you on ignore. You p'md me awhile ago and you told me you were going to put me on ignore so I suggest you do so.
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It's not "as per RiV" @Kamaji The charge is brought by Disney Corporation. Now settle down like a good little boy and let the courts handle it.
:mauslaff:
Wow. The condescension from you is in direct proportion to the degree to which you're a liar. I'll give you this much: you're as great a failure as your cult-leader, Trump is.
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So, apparently, the Constitution is a convenient way to immunize one's self from government regulation - do or say one thing that some top government official does not like, and - as per RiV - suddenly, anything the government might do that affects you is an unconstitutional attack on your right to freedom of speech.
It's not "as per RiV" @Kamaji The charge is brought by Disney Corporation. Now settle down like a good little boy and let the courts handle it.
:mauslaff:
Wow. The condescension from you is in direct proportion to the degree to which you're a liar. I'll give you this much: you're as great a failure as your cult-leader, Trump is.
Is this an appropriate way for me to be spoken to @Cyber Liberty ?
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I posted reports on the lawsuit with a caution the Supremes ruled corporations have First Amendment protections.....a 5-4 decisions carried by Roberts, Alito, Scalia, Thomas and Kennedy. . . .
↑ ↑ ↑ ↑
This is you regurgitating baseless left-wing talking points of a civil petition against the State of Florida that have zero relevance to the case cited.
And this is YOU offering the same argument as your own, completely independent of the left-wing talking points above:
↓ ↓ ↓ ↓
This sure appears to be quintessential government retaliation in contradiction to First Amendment rights.
And again:
↓ ↓ ↓ ↓
The state's retaliation in response to a corporation's First Amendment rights is a no-no. :nono:
Desantis better pray you're not subpoenaed. 88devil
And again:
↓ ↓ ↓ ↓
So trampling the First Amendment is okay if it's done with conservative boots?
Seeing how the Citizens United case brought up by your left-wing source has absolutely positively NOTHING to do with the State of Florida's actions, I ask, based on YOUR OWN CLAIM, how is it exactly that the First Amendment was violated here? This ain't rocket surgery. Here it is again for you:
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
So what part did DeSantis violate? Make your case.
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Is this an appropriate way for me to be spoken to @Cyber Liberty ?
'Lying' is never appropriate.
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It's not "as per RiV" @Kamaji The charge is brought by Disney Corporation. Now settle down like a good little boy and let the courts handle it.
Is this an appropriate way for me to be spoken to @Cyber Liberty ?
Did he literally call you a lowlife?
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Did he literally call you a lowlife?
I didn't call anyone a lowlife.
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Did he literally call you a lowlife?
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Good catch @Cyber Liberty So, liar, failure and loser are okay then. I suppose @Wingnut favorite nickname for me, "leghumper", is also okay.
This has been very helpful. Appreciate it --- and thanks. :beer:
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Good catch @Cyber Liberty So, liar, failure and loser are okay then. I suppose @Wingnut favorite nickname for me, "leghumper", is also okay.
This has been very helpful. Appreciate it --- and thanks. :beer:
One who tells a lie is a liar; that's not a matter of insult, that's a matter of fact.
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Complete :bs: Rabbi.
Not BS... It's exactly what's happening.
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Locked for obvious reasons...