Along that line, I'll offer another:
“Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.”
"Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it. Do not count on them. Leave them alone." Ayn Rand
Rand was capable of some brilliant thoughts and devastating insights about collectivism but she could also be extraordinarily petty; in her private life did not practice what she preached (just try contradicting her); was a fanatically devout atheist; and carried on a long time affair with a married man (which says a great deal about her moral standards outside the boundaries of a religious like devotion to capitalism).
Yes, she was indeed "was a very complex and fascinating woman", a rigorous thinker in many ways, a hypocrite and libertine in others.
"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality" -- Ayn RandThat one is spot on.
An aside. The movie, "Atlas Shrugged", is now out on DVD.
There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
Atlas Shrugged Part 2, Chapter 3
I cannot even begin to tell you how much truth there is in that statement.
Yes. Really hits home.
It stands to reason that where there’s sacrifice, there’s someone collecting sacrificial offerings. Where there’s service, there’s someone being served. The man who speaks to you of sacrifice, speaks of slaves and masters. And intends to be the master.
— Ayn Rand
... if a carnivorous pack attacks them animals perish — man writes the Constitution of the United States.
—Ayn Rand
Good one for sure, Lando.
BTW have you seen part II of Atlas Shrugged yet? They are currently starting on part III.....
I purchased it for my video library but have not yet watched it. Can't find the time!! Will let you know...
Believe it or not, Lando, I've yet to read "Atlas Shrugged", until now...
Just borrowed it from a friend and I'll let you know what I find out...MUD
The movie "Atlas Shrugged - Part II" came out recently and can be viewed on Netflix streaming.
Part I was pretty good, and I'm looking forward to Part II.
Ooooh.....that's a good one, Lando! :patriot::patriot:
Very fitting today.
Part II was even better... I'm anxious to see III
There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
Atlas Shrugged Part 2, Chapter 3
I cannot even begin to tell you how much truth there is in that statement.
Wonderful thread!
Always enjoy your chosen quotes on this thread, Lando!
It's a good one!
Don't try to have the last word -- you might get it. - Lazarus Long.
Animals can be driven crazy by putting too many in too small a pen.
Homo sapiens is the only animal that voluntarily does this to himself.
- Lazarus Long
THREADJACK!!!!!
It fits the theme though.
"In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit."
- John Galt in Atlas Shrugged
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/11986531_10153268905089412_4890074734772555084_n.jpg?oh=b0050b603ee5526290d229a20ed2ec10&oe=56AB919A)
I would put discrimination very high on the list of mankind's survival tools as well!
Discrimination - that word has been stigmatized in today's world, almost always meaning "bad". It is indeed a valuable and necessary tool in order to survive. Thank you for that thought Bigun. Got me thinking.
Discrimination...is indeed a valuable and necessary tool in order to survive.
I would add stereotyping to that list of survival tools as well. We use it daily in our interactions with strangers and acquaintances.
Example: You walk to your car in a parking garage at night. You see three people hanging out near your vehicle with no one else in sight. Without speaking to any of them, a stereotype will be automatically applied based on their apparent gender, race/ethnicity, age, clothing, and behavior. That stereotype will determine your actions.
I need to re-state that quote with more of the complete thought.
"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns – or dollars. Take your choice – there is no other – and your time is running out."
I read Atlas Shrugged while on a plane a few years back and found it long and boring in parts but very applicable to events happening today
Wow, that was long plane ride!
See edit... :tongue2:
Interesting development, although it appears from the story the legislator at issue isn't quite serious about this but has another agenda entirely. Too bad.
Reading Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged" may become a requirement for high school graduation in Idaho if Coeur d'Alene Senator John Goedde, chairman of the Idaho Senate's Education Committee, decides to pursue the matter.
Goedde introduced a bill with the requirement but doesn't appear serious about pushing it:...
Goedde said he doesn't plan to press forward with the bill, but it was formally introduced in his committee Tuesday on a voice vote. He said he was sending a message to the State Board of Education, because he's unhappy with its recent move to repeal a rule requiring two online courses to graduate from high school, and with its decision to back off on another planned rule regarding principal evaluations.
"It was a shot over their bow just to let them know that there's another way to adopt high school graduation requirements," Goedde said after the meeting. "I don't intend to schedule a hearing on it."
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/02/bill_introduced_in_idaho_that_makes_reading_atlas_shrugged_a_requirement_for_graduation.html
Just a side note, apropos of nothing. I have always loved the name of that city, Coeur d'Alene. Just so pretty.
Ok, carry on.
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles. - Ayn Rand
The spread of evil is the symptom of a vacuum. Whenever evil wins, it is only by default: by the moral failure of those who evade the fact that there can be no compromise on basic principles. - Ayn RandWords to live by.
I'm currently reading "Atlas Shrugged" and figured I may as well revive this thread.
I loved this description of the press: The reporters ... had been trained to think that their job consisted of concealing from the world the nature of its events. It was their daily duty to serve as audience for some public figure who made utterances about the public good, in phrases carefully chosen to convey no meaning. It was their daily job to sling words together in any combination they pleased, so long as the words did not fall into a sequence saying something specific.
:laugh:
Today, when a concerted effort is made to obliterate this point, it cannot be repeated too often that the Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals- that it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government- that it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen’s protection against the government.
(Ayn Rand)
I'm still reading (over half way through) and, yes, the parallels to the present day are many - and disturbing.
" This Country was built on the supremacy of reason--and for one magnificent century, it redeemed the world.
It will have to do so again."
Francisco d' Anconia
Just awesome quote. Is that from Francisco’s money speech?
Here's a very complex quote--
"A is A"
"Your fear of death is not a love for life and will not give you the knowledge to keep it."
"Happiness is the successful state of life, pain is an agent of death"
"The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live."
Mortality.... :pondering:
We are, I fear, in the dystopia Rand imagined.I can't imagine anyone reading that book today and not feeling that way.
Gotta say--as much as I appreciated the Francisco d'Anconia speech, I loathed the tiresome repetition of the John Galt speech.
Cody Libolt Mediahttps://www.facebook.com/cody.libolt/
35m ·
Jesus Christ AND Ayn Rand?
By Jacob Brunton
The media is abuzz about a “schism” in the Republican Party, a “crisis of values” among Conservatives. But, the media — and unfortunately those responding to it — are all too superficial to see that this is more than a political schism; much more.
The political aspect is just a faint echo — a tremor, which serves as a precursor to the massive coming earthquake.
It is not a political crisis, but a philosophical one.
It is not a crisis of conflicting opinions among groups. It is a crisis of conflicting worldviews within individuals.
It is a crisis in the deepest part of one’s soul; a crisis of cognitive dissonance run rampant in the minds of men, a war between ideals — and the opposing ideals are not what the headlines would lead you to believe:
“Take a Stand Against Rand” says Christian author, Marvin Olasky in World Magazine.
“Ayn Rand or Jesus Christ? Conservatives can’t have it both ways” says Mike Lux of the Huffington Post.
“You Can’t Reconcile Ayn Rand and Jesus” says CNN Contributor and Professor of Religion at Boston University, Stephan Plethero in a USA Today Forum.
“Christians Must Choose: Ayn Rand or Jesus” reads a headline for the American Values Network.
There is a choice to be made, but it isn’t between Jesus Christ and Ayn Rand. It’s between reason and irrationality; between reality and fantasy; between the objective and the subjective; between truth and fairytales.
And it is a choice that primarily needs to be made by Christians.
The political and religious commentators above are quick to blindly pit Christianity against the philosophy of Ayn Rand and then proceed to wholly denounce one in favor of the other as if the two are some random opposing sports teams behind which the masses are to gather according their personal and subjective preferences.
They drop, or entirely ignore, the context and the nature of what is being discussed. These are not sports teams — they are worldviews; ideas about reality. And the context is not a popularity contest — it is reality.
We are in reality and we are speaking of different views of that reality. Any given aspect of a view of reality will either be accurate or not: true or false. And this, the accuracy of a worldview (or aspects of it) is what matters in the context of reality.
The question to be asked first is not: Are the worldviews of Christianity and Objectivism (Ayn Rand’s philosophy) compatible?
Rather it is: What is true?
Or, more specific to the context of this discussion: Is there any truth in Christianity or in Objectivism? And here is where the Christian must make the crucial choice mentioned above: will he be an advocate of reason, rationality, and objective truth by objectively assessing the truthfulness of his conceptions of Christianity (and willingly rejecting that which is found to be untrue), or will he be an advocate of irrationality, fantasy, and subjective fairytales by insisting that Christianity is true without any objective reason for believing so — that it’s true merely because he wants it to be.
This — devotion to truth, regardless of the implications — is the foundational and indispensible first step that any man who wishes to be worthy of the title of “Man” must take.
Apart from this first step, every thought and crafty sentence, every argument and concept of “proof”, every illusion of truth in one’s head is just that: an illusion — a fleeting and floating cloud of subjective, emotionally charged nothingness.
And, therefore, apart from this step, every critique of other worldviews and every bit of “intellectual” commentary is massively pointless and absurd — akin to a child babbling about his dreams to a board of directors in a business meeting.
Such is the majority of content of the articles above.
However, once one has taken that first step and decided to live for and love the truth no matter where it may lead, then — and only then — is he fit (assuming he is armed with a proper epistemology) to evaluate the truthfulness, not only of various conceptions of Christianity, but of all ideas, period.
Then, he is fit to discover all of the truth — no matter where it came from and no matter where it leads.
Then, he will be capable of rising above the stupid and trite ‘sports game’ demonstrated in the above articles and throughout the media, in order to see what is and is not true in the philosophy of Ayn Rand, and to properly integrate it with all other truth which he has discovered, particularly truth about Christianity.
Then, rather than emulate the intellectual cowardice of the Seminary professor who told Dr. John Piper that “[Ayn Rand’s writing] is incredibly dangerous”, he will be able to emulate Paul’s description of an intellectual hero — a ‘spiritual man who appraises all things’ (1 Cor 2:15) because he will have an objective standard against which to appraise all things.
Then, he will be equipped to say with Paul “we destroy speculations and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and we take every thought captive to obey Christ “(2 Cor. 10:5) because he will no longer be running from speculations and lofty opinions or retreating to his own personal fantasy-land which he calls “truth”.
This is what is desperately needed on the part of Christians today (and on the part of every man in general). This is not the only step which needs to be taken, but it is the first. This is what I have done, and am eager to continually do.
And this first step — together with the path to which it leads — is why I can very comfortably and confidently say that I love Jesus Christ and I love Ayn Rand — and, I love myself.
This is the foundational reason that, in spite of massively popular contrary opinions, I can very seriously — and with full conviction — call myself a Christian egoist.
Interesting thoughts from the fellow at the Ayn Rand and Christianity Facebook page. I hadn't come across the anti-Rand sentiment he describes.Quote. . . “You Can’t Reconcile Ayn Rand and Jesus” says CNN Contributor and Professor of Religion at Boston University, Stephan Plethero in a USA Today Forum. . .
"When the law no longer protects you from the corrupt, but protects the corrupt from you - you know your nation is doomed."
- Ayn Rand
Worth repeating.
The only true point of conflict I see between Rand and Jesus is in her personal rejection of what she labels as "altruism", which includes individuals voluntarily choosing to do good deeds just to help others. I think she got a little wonky on that sometimes in terms of discussing charity.
But when people say "Jesus was a socialist", that's nuts. Jesus never advocated that Pilate, or Herod, or Tiberius raise taxes on people in order to redistribute their wealth by force of law. There's no "tax the rich" speech anywhere in the New Testament. And that's how socialists do it. In fact, if you have government doing that, then a bunch of Jesus' teachings become irrelevant.
Jesus advocated private charity -- voluntary giving -- which is perfectly compatible with capitalism/libertarianism. What isn't compatible with His teaching is the government taking everyone's money and then redistributing it as those in power see fit.
Join The Atlas Society for our inaugural student conference in Music City this summer!https://www.atlassociety.org/galtsgulchsummit2023?fbclid=IwAR3agyVr6W5faHG22MiFo0UrfuSpZgDoe_XMAiBhko0PR7AcC4Gz45WH_8Y
The Galt’s Gulch Summit will deepen young people’s understanding of Ayn Rand's ideas, and equip them with the philosophical tools necessary to think critically, act independently, set meaningful personal goals, find win-win relationships, and defend their rational self-interest. The summit will be held at the Nashville Marriott on Vanderbilt Campus – and kicks off the afternoon of Thursday, July 27th, and ends the afternoon of Saturday, July 29th. ...
If you’re looking for a weekend getaway with other people your age who are interested in ideas – then Galt’s Gulch Summit is for you! Spots are limited to 50 young adult attendees (ages 18 – 27 ) – so don’t wait, you can secure your spot for a nominal fee: young adult discounted tickets are just $50! ...
... We can turn to Ayn Rand for insights about why such an economically successful state as Israel with an open society is so hated by its neighbors.https://www.atlassociety.org/post/ayn-rands-thoughts-on-the-middle-east-and-israel
1. EAST-WEST CONFLICT AND ISRAEL
In 1974, Ayn Rand was asked about American Middle East policy in the aftermath of the Arab-Israeli War of the previous year. That was the fourth war since the modern state of Israel was established in 1948. It was the fourth time that the little country had had to fight for its existence. There have been many attacks in the half-century since then, culminated in the current Hamas attack.
While Rand did not advocate sending American troops into the conflict, she did argue that America should “Give all the help possible to Israel.” She stated specifically that “the help Israel needs is technology and military weapons—and they need them desperately. Why should we help Israel?” She explained that at that time, Israel was “fighting not just the Arabs but Soviet Russia, who is sending the Arabs armaments.” ...
2. PREMODERN VS. MODERN ARAB-ISRAELI CULTURE CLASH
“The Arabs are one of the least developed cultures,” Rand argued. “They are typically nomads. Their culture is primitive, and they resent Israel because it's the sole beachhead of modern science and civilization on their continent.” ...
Atlas Society has put out a trailer for the book.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUn6JJsJroA