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General Category => National/Breaking News => Second Amendment => Topic started by: mrclose on July 09, 2016, 07:32:22 am

Title: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth
Post by: mrclose on July 09, 2016, 07:32:22 am
My layout (in this post) of the page disappeared but the link works fine.
(This was actually my first attempt in creating a web page)

BTW: No ads, no popups at link! :beer:

The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth
Quote

(**snip**)

The intent of the second Amendment was to insure that every able-bodied man in America would be armed in the event that the federal government or America’s own standing army turned on its people.

Our founders were keenly aware that armament would continue to improve and become more efficient and thus ... the 2nd Amendment has Shall Not Be Infringed as it's foundation.

 
It wasn't just the government that possessed sophisticated arms ... the Common Folk of the era owned what today's gun grabbers would call militarized weapons.

By the time the 2nd amendment was adopted, (December 15, 1791) assault weapons already existed.


https://mrclose.neocities.org/Musket%20Myth.html
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Doug Loss on July 09, 2016, 11:33:06 am
Don't forget that a large portion of the cannons (artillery) used by the Continental Army during the Revolutionary War were on loan from private owners...

If the Founders were around today, they wouldn't be whining about citizens having "assault" weapons, they'd be upset that the maintenance costs of tanks, fighter jets, and cruisers were too high for individual citizens or even groups to own and use them.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: goatprairie on July 09, 2016, 12:02:17 pm
The whole "the founders didn't know about certain weapons" argument is ridiculous because the founders didn't know about any modern thing that was only available decades or centuries later.  It's a stupid argument. 
The founders didn't know about certain weapons? So what, what was available then and what is available now was not the intent of the founders.
The founders meant that private citizens should be armed. And they certainly didn't mean for their weapons to be collected by a central authority after an insurrection was concluded.
 And even the part about there having to be a militia is not exclusive of private citizens keeping their firearms  for other uses. It's just the gun grabbers intent to put things in the constitution that aren't there.
If the founders had intended that private citizens could not keep firearms on their person, they would have put it in writing.
They never did and, of course, would have thought it crazy to believe private citizens could not keep firearms at home or on their person.
They knew that all firearms secured in central locations could be easily taken by an oppressive authority thereby totally undermining the idea of private citizens rebelling against an oppressive government.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: bolobaby on July 09, 2016, 02:07:45 pm
I’m thinking about picking up a new firearm before the pending Assault Weapons Ban…
 
https://www.slickguns.com/product/colt-1877-bulldog-gatling-gun-brass-45-70-government-1825-inch-carriage-model-5526168?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter-191
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on July 09, 2016, 04:59:29 pm
Carol Roth destroys Piers Morgan on Twitter exchange:

(http://www.therightscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/piersmorgan_twitterpwn.jpg)
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: rodamala on July 09, 2016, 05:15:22 pm
Happiness is living 2 properties away from a guy that on Independence Day was blowing off full sticks of dynamite and emptying 30 round magazines from an automatic rifle... ALL. DAY. LONG.

Bliss would be being that guy.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: rangerrebew on July 09, 2016, 06:14:11 pm
It seems to me if the framers didn't want people to have military grade weapons, they would have made that known as part of the 2nd Amendment.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: EC on July 09, 2016, 06:17:47 pm
Pretty sure that at the time of writing, there were no such thing as hobby grade guns. They were all military grade.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: RetBobbyMI on July 10, 2016, 04:33:26 am
Most of the patriots that fought against British rule brought their own fire arms to the fight or appropriated them from the British.  The founders believed that to have "well organized militias" the people would have to have their own arms to protect from the tyranny of another out of control government.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Crazieman on July 10, 2016, 08:15:10 am
Private citizens owned cannons.

The Constitution refers to Letters of Marque.  Private warships.

Read properly, Joe Schmoe, if he can afford it, can have an Abrams in his garage.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: geronl on July 10, 2016, 08:45:37 am
All I want for Christmas...

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-01mE8c7tQOs/TtO-zTu6S2I/AAAAAAAAFSo/HcV35fyiaLs/s1600/machine-gun-santa-m60.jpg)
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: rangerrebew on July 10, 2016, 02:08:05 pm
Most of the patriots that fought against British rule brought their own fire arms to the fight or appropriated them from the British.  The founders believed that to have "well organized militias" the people would have to have their own arms to protect from the tyranny of another out of control government.

Interesting! People would be better able to aim and shoot their own weapons rather the ones furnished by someone else which still would apply.  This all makes more and more sense.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: mrclose on July 11, 2016, 12:18:26 am
Private citizens owned cannons.

The Constitution refers to Letters of Marque.  Private warships.

Read properly, Joe Schmoe, if he can afford it, can have an Abrams in his garage.

Quote
This armored tank is fully functional,” the ArmsList classified states. “The turret is fully operational [...] The main gun is registered as a Destructive Device with the ATF and comes with 10 projectiles. More projectiles are available.



(http://i65.tinypic.com/14e2rud.jpg)

(http://i63.tinypic.com/2utojy9.jpg)

But is it legal? And can anybody just up and buy something with the insane firepower of a tank or grenade launcher? According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, yes, totally legal.

If they’re operational, you can register those actual cannons [as an NFA weapon],” Russ Morrison, a spokesman for the ATF, told the Daily Dot. “And if they’re sold, they’d have to go through a transfer to make sure everything’s OK, and have it registered, as well.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/4616205/oklahoma-city-oklahoma-nfa-firearms-for-sale--fully-operational-main-battle-tank-with-120mm-live-cannon
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on July 11, 2016, 12:45:19 am
http://www.armslist.com/posts/4616205/oklahoma-city-oklahoma-nfa-firearms-for-sale--fully-operational-main-battle-tank-with-120mm-live-cannon

If you can get to the Silk Road (the Dark Web), you'll find way more goodies for sale.

It's the most frightening part of the Internet.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: mrclose on July 11, 2016, 01:58:43 am
If you can get to the Silk Road (the Dark Web), you'll find way more goodies for sale.

It's the most frightening part of the Internet.
I assume<<---(yea, I know), I am guessing that the term dark net represents all of those sites that haven't been "indexed" by Google?
(Kind of like it was before Google existed.) :shrug:
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on July 11, 2016, 03:21:31 am
I assume<<---(yea, I know), I am guessing that the term dark net represents all of those sites that haven't been "indexed" by Google?
(Kind of like it was before Google existed.) :shrug:

No.

What you just described is known as the Deep Web.

The dark Web is something else.

Quote
The “dark web” is a part of the world wide web that requires special software to access. Once inside, web sites and other services can be accessed through a browser in much the same way as the normal web.

However, some sites are effectively “hidden”, in that they have not been indexed by a search engine and can only be accessed if you know the address of the site. Special markets also operate within the dark web called, “darknet markets”, which mainly sell illegal products like drugs and firearms, paid for in the cryptocurrency Bitcoin.

There is even a crowdfunded “Assassination Market”, where users can pay towards having someone assassinated.

Because of the the dark web’s almost total anonymity, it has been the place of choice for groups wanting to stay hidden online from governments and law enforcement agencies. On the one hand there have been whistleblowers using the dark web to communicate with journalists, but more frequently it has been used by paedophile groups, terrorists and criminals to keep their dealings secret.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Mom MD on July 11, 2016, 02:45:00 pm
I’m thinking about picking up a new firearm before the pending Assault Weapons Ban…
 
https://www.slickguns.com/product/colt-1877-bulldog-gatling-gun-brass-45-70-government-1825-inch-carriage-model-5526168?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter-191

I did just that   I do have to be very careful opening the case though   That little rascal has a tendency to run off on its own and start shooting people....   /s
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: XenaLee on July 11, 2016, 06:12:39 pm
I did just that   I do have to be very careful opening the case though   That little rascal has a tendency to run off on its own and start shooting people....   /s

I hate it when that happens.  Have you tried chaining it?  lolol
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: geronl on July 11, 2016, 06:33:26 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/hTsNT16.gif)
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2016, 03:46:12 pm
The intent of the second Amendment was to insure that every able-bodied man in America would be armed in the event that the federal government or America’s own standing army turned on its people.

@mrclose


That's only half the story. The rest of the story is they were specifically stating "that citizens be armed with weapons typical of those carried by the typical infantry soldier in order that that not be outgunned if they ever have to face a professional army."

Which means that things like machine guns are the VERY weapons referred to when it comes to dealing with professional armies of today.

The Second Amendment has NOTHING to do with deer hunting,gun collecting,trap or skeet shooting, target shooting,or even self-defense, It has EVERYTHING to do with citizens be able to be armed with the equivalent arms of any army they might have to face,including our own army.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2016, 04:09:48 pm
Pretty sure that at the time of writing, there were no such thing as hobby grade guns. They were all military grade.

@EC

Not true. In fact,at that time sporting grade rifles were FAR superior to muskets in terms of both accuracy and speed of reloading. Military tactics at the time were to march shoulder to shoulder across open fields and have mass firings of smooth-bore muskets that were barely accurate enough to hit a man-sized target SOMEWHERE at 50 yards. The rifles that hunters were using could accurately take a man down at 300 yards or even further. Some were even breech-loaders that were MUCH quicker to reload than the Brown Bess muskets being used by the British. That's why small bands of revolutionaries were able to shoot the British army to pieces without taking many,if any causalities themselves.

The FF's only specified that the citizens have access to  "military grade arms of the type carried by the typical infantry soldier". They did NOT state that citizens couldn't or shouldn't have access to BETTER weapons that COULD be issued to the typical infantry soldier if the government weren't too cheap to buy them.

Look at where the military goes for sniper rifles,even today. They go to sniper rifles based on civilian target rifles.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2016, 04:16:19 pm
Interesting! People would be better able to aim and shoot their own weapons rather the ones furnished by someone else which still would apply.  This all makes more and more sense.

The British were issued the old Brown Bess musket,and it was wildly inaccurate,very heavy,very long,and took a very long time to reload. About the only thing in it's favor was the dead soft lead 72 caliber bullet it fired. Damn few people were wounded,and most that were suffered traumatic amputations of arms or legs.

The colonist rifles were of much smaller calibers,shorter,lighter,and quicker to reload,and accurate out to 300 yards or more because they fired bullets instead of balls,and because the bores were "rifled" with lands and grooves that spun and stabilized the bullets in flight. That's why they were called "rifles" instead of muskets.

@rangerrebew
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2016, 04:25:16 pm
http://www.armslist.com/posts/4616205/oklahoma-city-oklahoma-nfa-firearms-for-sale--fully-operational-main-battle-tank-with-120mm-live-cannon

@mrclose

Yes,it is legal under federal law,but to buy one you MUST buy a Class Three License (tax stamp) and be approved by the BATF prior to taking possession.

Some people claim that states have the right to deny "weapons of mass destruction" to their citizens,and do,but the reality is people like Steven Spielberg buy and possess stuff like this all the time. He even bought TWO Russian SS-20 ICBM's with their launch trucks and controls after the USSR collapsed,and had them shipping to the west coast. Customs officials panicked when they went to inspect them before allowing them into the country,and found the nuke warheads still in the missiles loaded in the launch base of one of them.

BTW,it has been said that Spielberg also owns the worlds larges private machine gun collection. He uses the ruse of buying them though his movie production company as props because corporations are exempt from gun bans,even in states that ban machine guns. The Dims in charge during the Roosevelt Administration made sure of that loophole when the MGA of 1934 was passed into law. It's also how the Kennedy bodyguards are able to carry mini-uzi's concealed under their coats in Mass and DC. A corporation owned by a Kennedy Trust owns the corporation that owns the Uzi's,and the bodyguards are their employees.

Slick,huh?

If you ain't a multi-billionaire that gives millions to pieces of political shit like Di-Fi and support traitors like Bathhouse Barry with millions in donations,don't even waste your time asking,though. "Equality" means different things to leftists than it does to the rest of us.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2016, 04:33:43 pm

Because of the the dark web’s almost total anonymity, it has been the place of choice for groups wanting to stay hidden online from governments and law enforcement agencies. On the one hand there have been whistleblowers using the dark web to communicate with journalists, but more frequently it has been used by paedophile groups, terrorists and criminals to keep their dealings secret.


In other words,members of Congress,the US Senate,Appointed high government officials,and their aides.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: mrclose on August 04, 2019, 09:29:17 pm
My layout (in this post) of the page disappeared but the link works fine.
(This was actually my first attempt in creating a web page)

BTW: No ads, no popups at link! :beer:

The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
 

https://mrclose.neocities.org/DUPE.HTML

I think that this is even more relevant today than when I first posted it!

At least, at that time a good majority of true conservatives knew and believed what the "Right To Bear Arms" meant!

With the NRA and Trump approving of the ban on 'bump stocks' and the heated rhetoric coming from both sides after these mass murders ..I fear that the ever so slow erosion of the second amendment will now go into overdrive!
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on August 05, 2019, 01:13:38 am


Hmmm,seems like I had nothing to say,huh?

I hate it when that happens.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 05, 2019, 05:13:57 am
The whole "the founders didn't know about certain weapons" argument is ridiculous because the founders didn't know about any modern thing that was only available decades or centuries later.  It's a stupid argument. 
The founders didn't know about certain weapons? So what, what was available then and what is available now was not the intent of the founders.
The founders meant that private citizens should be armed. And they certainly didn't mean for their weapons to be collected by a central authority after an insurrection was concluded.
 And even the part about there having to be a militia is not exclusive of private citizens keeping their firearms  for other uses. It's just the gun grabbers intent to put things in the constitution that aren't there.
If the founders had intended that private citizens could not keep firearms on their person, they would have put it in writing.
They never did and, of course, would have thought it crazy to believe private citizens could not keep firearms at home or on their person.
They knew that all firearms secured in central locations could be easily taken by an oppressive authority thereby totally undermining the idea of private citizens rebelling against an oppressive government.
Members of the Maryland Militia found this out when the State was invaded by Pennsylvania and Massachusetts Militias, sparking the Pratt Street Riots, and the first fatalities of the Civil War. Arms assembled in the armories were not recovered. .
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Luis Gonzalez on August 05, 2019, 05:23:15 am
If the 2nd only applies to muskets, then the 1st only covers Colonial printing presses.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: RetBobbyMI on August 05, 2019, 08:43:59 am
If the 2nd only applies to muskets, then the 1st only covers Colonial printing presses.
Worth repeating
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: goatprairie on August 05, 2019, 10:20:11 am
If the 2nd only applies to muskets, then the 1st only covers Colonial printing presses.
Excellent point. I think the leftists aren't quite that stupid. They're being disingenuous. Obviously, The Founders meant for the citizenry to be properly armed with the weapons available at the time. 
It's patently ludicrous to think that if the revolution had occurred one hundred years later or more, The Founders wouldn't have mentioned the repeating rifles, six guns, gatling guns available by that time.
But again, the gun grabbers are simply being disingenuous. They're really not quite that dumb. Or maybe they are.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 05, 2019, 10:23:18 am
Excellent point. I think the leftists aren't quite that stupid. They're being disingenuous. Obviously, The Founders meant for the citizenry to be properly armed with the weapons available at the time. 
It's patently ludicrous to think that if the revolution had occurred one hundred years later or more, The Founders wouldn't have mentioned the repeating rifles, six guns, gatling guns available by that time.
But again, the gun grabbers are simply being disingenuous. They're really not quite that dumb. Or maybe they are.
They may not be that dumb, but they hope to be playing to an audience that is, especially after decades of propaganda and nonsense.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Bill Cipher on August 05, 2019, 10:53:35 am
If the 2nd only applies to muskets, then the 1st only covers Colonial printing presses.

And the Fourth does not apply to computers.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on August 05, 2019, 01:08:58 pm

But again, the gun grabbers are simply being disingenuous. They're really not quite that dumb. Or maybe they are.

@goatprarie

It's not that they are dumb so much as it is they have the reasoning ability of a child. If they WANT something to be true,they think that is the same thing AS being true.

If you refuse to give them what they want,they have tantrums like a 6 year old.

Since the vast majority of the Dim leadership come from wealthy families that gave them anything they wanted all their lives,they honestly can't understand why you won't give them "this" when they want it. If you won't.it must be because you are selfish,a racist,a homophobe,etc,etc,etc.

Little do most of these adult children realize that the instant they are no longer useful is the same instant their leftist masters decide they would be most useful as dog food. No way in HELL are they going to be able to get away with that crap once "the revolution comes".
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: txradioguy on August 05, 2019, 02:32:29 pm
They may not be that dumb, but they hope to be playing to an audience that is, especially after decades of propaganda and nonsense.

If the crap that was being spewed on Twitter this weekend is any indication...they ARE that dumb...and their audiences are a couple levels of stupid below them.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: mrclose on August 05, 2019, 11:35:04 pm
The vast majority of people who believe that the government has the right to regulate gun ownership by passing new laws ... have a poor understanding of our Constitution!

Most of the arguments about the Second Amendment ... made by both sides, revolve around a single assumption - that the Second Amendment grants a citizen the right to bear arms.

What both sides fail to understand is that the Second Amendment grants no such right, in fact, the Constitution grants no rights at all!

What the Constitution does do is identify what powers the people grant to the government.

This is the whole purpose of the Constitution - to tell the government what it can and cannot do, our Constitution is a limit on government.

That is why Marxists, Socialist, Progressive Democrats, et al. have such a disdain for our Constitution .. it is a limitation on Government not a limitation on We The People.

Read the Second Amendment closely.
Nowhere does it state that the people have a right to bear arms but rather that the government cannot infringe on that right.

The framers of our Constitution believed that our right to bear arms is a natural right , not a right to be given to us by government.


Amendment II

Quote
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

That’s it, that is the whole 2nd Amendment.
Where does it say that the government gives us any right?
It doesn’t, it only says that the government cannot infringe on this right.

And when the often used argument arises that we will all be safer if we pass (another) gun law or how the 2nd only applied to  the militia, I am reminded on how our nations leading members at the time would respond to that.
(Pay particular attention to what Noah Webster had to say)

Quote
"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”

Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776


Quote
"I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery".

Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787


Put another way: I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude..

Quote
“Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”

Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787


Quote
“The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”

Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788


There are a ton more references that can be found but I'll close with the following ...


Quote
Today, when a concerted effort is made to obliterate this point, it cannot be repeated too often that the Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals- that it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government- that it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen’s protection against the government.— Ayn Rand
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: txradioguy on August 06, 2019, 12:07:37 am
I think that this is even more relevant today than when I first posted it!

At least, at that time a good majority of true conservatives knew and believed what the "Right To Bear Arms" meant!

With the NRA and Trump approving of the ban on 'bump stocks' and the heated rhetoric coming from both sides after these mass murders ..I fear that the ever so slow erosion of the second amendment will now go into overdrive!

I actually saw some idiot on Twitter trying to use the “The 2nd Amendment was written for Muskets “ BS today.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: mrclose on August 06, 2019, 12:53:09 am
I actually saw some idiot on Twitter trying to use the “The 2nd Amendment was written for Muskets “ BS today.

@txradioguy

The country is on it's way out as a Constitutional Republic because the people are an ignorant mass!

Even within my own family when I bring up the fact that all gun laws are unconstitutional, they look at me like I'm nuts!

They'll argue that each state has a right ... blah, blah, blah and I'll say, No, a state doesn't have the right to violate the constitution either!

More ignorant stares. **nononono*

Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Bill Cipher on August 06, 2019, 01:22:34 am
@txradioguy

The country is on it's way out as a Constitutional Republic because the people are an ignorant mass!

Even within my own family when I bring up the fact that all gun laws are unconstitutional, they look at me like I'm nuts!

They'll argue that each state has a right ... blah, blah, blah and I'll say, No, a state doesn't have the right to violate the constitution either!

More ignorant stares. **nononono*



Not all gun laws are unconstitutional. 
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on August 06, 2019, 02:16:59 am
The vast majority of people who believe that the government has the right to regulate gun ownership by passing new laws ... have a poor understanding of our Constitution!

Most of the arguments about the Second Amendment ... made by both sides, revolve around a single assumption - that the Second Amendment grants a citizen the right to bear arms.

What both sides fail to understand is that the Second Amendment grants no such right, in fact, the Constitution grants no rights at all!


@mrclose

The simple way to explain it is that the Bill of Rights RECOGNIZES AN EXISTING RIGHT WE ALL HAVE BY VIRTUE OF BEING BORN IN AMERICA.

Since these rights are BIRTHRIGHTS,no government has the legal authority to restrict them or deny them to American citizens unless there are special circumstances proven in a court of law for EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: jmyrlefuller on August 06, 2019, 12:04:56 pm
Most of the arguments about the Second Amendment ... made by both sides, revolve around a single assumption - that the Second Amendment grants a citizen the right to bear arms.

What both sides fail to understand is that the Second Amendment grants no such right, in fact, the Constitution grants no rights at all!

What the Constitution does do is identify what powers the people grant to the government.
Then why are we the only country that has that right? Why don't we just rip up the darn Constitution and throw it on a funeral pyre... we don't need it, obviously!
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 06, 2019, 01:37:00 pm
Then why are we the only country that has that right? Why don't we just rip up the darn Constitution and throw it on a funeral pyre... we don't need it, obviously!
The Constitution delineates the narrow powers granted by the People to Government, and retains the rest to the People and the States. The 2nd Amendment, and others in the Bill of Rights as well exist to remind Government that these are Our Rights, and to be left alone. No other country quite has that level of proscription on Government Power, and the Rights of their people have been freely usurped by their governments.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: txradioguy on August 06, 2019, 02:00:01 pm
The Constitution delineates the narrow powers granted by the People to Government, and retains the rest to the People and the States. The 2nd Amendment, and others in the Bill of Rights as well exist to remind Government that these are Our Rights, and to be left alone. No other country quite has that level of proscription on Government Power, and the Rights of their people have been freely usurped by their governments.

It's also why Liberals hate...as Obama said our "fundamentally flawed" Constitution.  It tell them more of what they can't do than what they can do.

The Libs say it's full of "negative Liberties"
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: goatprairie on August 06, 2019, 02:02:18 pm
Without a written constitution that carefully stipulates the natural rights of citizens and states what gov. cannot do,  some governments, like Great Britain's, without written constitutions can interpret their laws in nefarious ways.
They try to do it anyway with our constitution, but when it's written down, it's a lot harder for scoundrels to ignore it or misinterpret it for their own selfish/evil reasons.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: mrclose on August 06, 2019, 06:26:01 pm
@mrclose

The simple way to explain it is that the Bill of Rights RECOGNIZES AN EXISTING RIGHT WE ALL HAVE BY VIRTUE OF BEING BORN IN AMERICA.

Since these rights are BIRTHRIGHTS,no government has the legal authority to restrict them or deny them to American citizens unless there are special circumstances proven in a court of law for EACH INDIVIDUAL CASE.

@sneakypete

Which is where we run into a problem.

Every time there is a "mass shooting", it gives the gun grabbers another opportunity to write new Unconstitutional Laws and another chance to take away the law abiding citizen's right to Self protection!

These laws will only apply to people who are law abiding, who have never hurt or killed anyone!
Criminals don't follow laws!

When a mass shooting or a crime of any kind is committed ... That crime should be prosecuted in the courts!

Congress has no right to create laws to punish the law abiding citizen for the actions of another!

A crime was committed by a person so prosecute the crime and the person who committed it!

Punishing the law abiding will not prevent future crimes!

We have surrendered our 'Constitutional Rights'  to the whims of whomever holds the reigns of power at the moment and to Judges who in many cases are nothing more than .. Black Robed Tyrants!
(As Mark Levin explains in his book, "Men In Black." )

Abortion "Rights" would be just one example.

Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: thackney on August 06, 2019, 06:29:57 pm
(https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/20130429__native_american_billboard_gun_rights_coloradop1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: mrclose on August 06, 2019, 06:49:21 pm
(https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/20130429__native_american_billboard_gun_rights_coloradop1-1.jpg)

Good One!

Unfortunately, the people have already surrendered!
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: goatprairie on August 06, 2019, 07:36:42 pm
(https://www.denverpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/20130429__native_american_billboard_gun_rights_coloradop1-1.jpg)
There's a tee shirt you can buy out west that shows a photo of four armed Indians with the words:

"Homeland Security: fighting terrorism since 1492"
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth (Or "I Want A Machine Gun")
Post by: sneakypete on August 06, 2019, 11:19:40 pm
@sneakypete

Quote
Which is where we run into a problem.

Every time there is a "mass shooting", it gives the gun grabbers another opportunity to write new Unconstitutional Laws and another chance to take away the law abiding citizen's right to Self protection!

Not really. Yes,they are doing it in many cities and states,but the laws they are passing are not legal. Which is why they will be VERY careful to arrest anyone with political connections or enough wealth and influence to take them to court.

In short,they get away with it because we LET them get away with it.



Quote
These laws will only apply to people who are law abiding, who have never hurt or killed anyone!
Criminals don't follow laws!

Seems so simple even the typical Dim could understand it,doesn't it?

Quote
We have surrendered our 'Constitutional Rights'  to the whims of whomever holds the reigns of power at the moment and to Judges who in many cases are nothing more than .. Black Robed Tyrants!
(As Mark Levin explains in his book, "Men In Black." )

He,right,too.
Title: Re: The 2nd Amendment Musket Myth
Post by: mrclose on July 08, 2020, 02:06:41 pm
I know that this is a rather old post but I hate dead links when I peruse someone else's old posts!

Addy change: https://mrclose.neocities.org/Musket%20Myth.html