The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Energy => Topic started by: thackney on February 18, 2021, 02:35:58 am
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Natural Gas Market Chaos Continues as Texas Governor Bans Producers From Selling Outside State
https://www.naturalgasintel.com/natural-gas-market-chaos-continues-as-texas-governor-bans-producers-from-selling-outside-state/ (https://www.naturalgasintel.com/natural-gas-market-chaos-continues-as-texas-governor-bans-producers-from-selling-outside-state/)
February 17, 2021
The fallout of the prolonged Arctic freeze that’s draped over the central United States and into Texas is still unfolding, with a temporary ban on gas exports out of the Lone Star State the latest development in the ongoing crisis.
Hours before the surprising announcement, steep decreases in production and large swings in demand fueled Nymex gas futures prices for a second day. Facing what potentially could be the largest storage withdrawal of the winter so far, the March Nymex natural gas futures contract settled Wednesday at $3.219, up 9.0 cents from Tuesday’s close. April picked up 4.9 cents to $3.032.
Action in the cash markets remained volatile midweek as Oklahoma added another digit to next-day prices, while prices in other parts of the country also started to tack on more meaningful gains than in recent days. However, other areas tumbled in dramatic fashion, helping to send NGI’s Spot Gas National Avg. down $40.135 to $40.625.
The energy crisis in Texas is far from contained, with additional prolonged power outages implemented across the state early Wednesday as temperatures remained not far above freezing. The state’s electric grid operator, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, said some 185 generating units have tripped offline for one reason or another amid the unprecedented freeze. Until more generation comes back online, power restoration efforts would be hampered....
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Watch Biden begin flexing his muscles by forcing Texas to export Texas produced gas.
We will see an escalating battle of wills develop, guaranteed.
And I do hope Texans tune in on the burdensome over-reach by the feds on Texas sovereignty.
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Why does Abbott get to tell a South Texas Gas company they cannot fulfill the contracts to supply gas to Florida because West Texas Gas companies do not do enough to protect their wells and gas plants against cold weather?
Government over-reach once again.
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Texas does not have the authority to regulate (ban) interstate sales of natural gas.
The control of interstate commerce is a power granted exclusively to the Congress of the United States under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. No way such a ban by Abbott could survive in federal court.
Look at it another way.
The gas companies own the gas they take from the wells. The state government wants to forbid them from selling the product outside the state.
Let's say the fascists get away with this.
What then, with this precedent, exists to stop California from preventing people who sell their homes to flee from using those funds to buy property in another state?
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Watch Biden begin flexing his muscles by forcing Texas to export Texas produced gas.
We will see an escalating battle of wills develop, guaranteed.
And I do hope Texans tune in on the burdensome over-reach by the feds on Texas sovereignty.
Green energy is a boondoggle based on "science". Like Lysenkoism did with agriculture in the Soviet Union, the Green New Deal will do with energy, and the Next Holdomor will be over BTUs and Killowatts, not grain.
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Texas does not have the authority to regulate (ban) interstate sales of natural gas.
The control of interstate commerce is a power granted exclusively to the Congress of the United States under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. No way such a ban by Abbott could survive in federal court.
Look at it another way.
The gas companies own the gas they take from the wells. The state government wants to forbid them from selling the product outside the state.
Let's say the fascists get away with this.
What then, with this precedent, exists to stop California from preventing people who sell their homes to flee from using those funds to buy property in another state?
I'm with you: It's blatantly unconstitutional.
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I'm with you: It's blatantly unconstitutional.
I expect it is going to be ignored. I hope it will be.
I do not expect gas pipelines to suddenly shut down at the borders.
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I'm with you: It's blatantly unconstitutional.
And one more HUGE black mark on Abbott's ledger.
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And one more HUGE black mark on Abbott's ledger.
Man's gone off the rails in a criisis.
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Man's gone off the rails in a criisis.
IMHO his handling of the pandemic has been horrific and now this. **nononono*
I shudder to think where we would be if we didn't have Ken Paxton right now.
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thackney complains:
"Why does Abbott get to tell a South Texas Gas company they cannot fulfill the contracts to supply gas to Florida because West Texas Gas companies do not do enough to protect their wells and gas plants against cold weather?"
Frankly a good move by Abbott. It should be politically popular as well.
When your state is literally starving for natural gas, you DO NOT permit producers to sell and export it OUT-of-state.
You keep it "in-house" and "take care of your own" first.
That's called... old-fashioned common sense.
Addendum:
When the emergency is over, then (of course) restore "the status quo".
But when Texans are freezin' because the fuel that would keep them warm and keep the lights on is being "exported out of state", NOT to do what Abbott is trying to do is... well, it's just plain nuts...
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I will fall on the side of taking care of your own first, especially in an emergency. We have two major dams right here in the valley, and should have no problems getting power. And DIDN'T until governor Rasciot (R) changed state law to offer that power to the grid first, driving the cost of local power up by double. Which put the aluminum plant out of business too, btw.
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I will fall on the side of taking care of your own first, especially in an emergency. We have two major dams right here in the valley, and should have no problems getting power. And DIDN'T until governor Rasciot (R) changed state law to offer that power to the grid first, driving the cost of local power up by double. Which put the aluminum plant out of business too, btw.
Yabbut...pandering is still pandering. He knows he cannot fulfill a promise like that.
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Texas does not have the authority to regulate (ban) interstate sales of natural gas.
The control of interstate commerce is a power granted exclusively to the Congress of the United States under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution. No way such a ban by Abbott could survive in federal court.
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What then, with this precedent, exists to stop California from preventing people who sell their homes to flee from using those funds to buy property in another state?
It ain't interstate commerce until it crosses state lines. So Abbott is protecting state resources and Texas citizens.
No one cares about Califorina's problems.
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It ain't interstate commerce until it crosses state lines. So Abbott is protecting state resources and Texas citizens.
No one cares about Califorina's problems.
The physical product hasn't crossed state lines yet, but the contracts sure did.
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thackney complains:
"Why does Abbott get to tell a South Texas Gas company they cannot fulfill the contracts to supply gas to Florida because West Texas Gas companies do not do enough to protect their wells and gas plants against cold weather?"
Frankly a good move by Abbott. It should be politically popular as well.
When your state is literally starving for natural gas, you DO NOT permit producers to sell and export it OUT-of-state.
You keep it "in-house" and "take care of your own" first.
That's called... old-fashioned common sense.
Addendum:
When the emergency is over, then (of course) restore "the status quo".
But when Texans are freezin' because the fuel that would keep them warm and keep the lights on is being "exported out of state", NOT to do what Abbott is trying to do is... well, it's just plain nuts...
In general, I am against government takeover of private property regardless of much the public thinks they need it. I am shocked at those that call themselves conservatives that think differently.
This is literally punishing those that prepared for the cold to support those that did not.
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In general, I am against government takeover of private property regardless of much the public thinks they need it. I am shocked at those that call themselves conservatives that think differently.
This is literally punishing those that prepared for the cold to support those that did not.
I used to work under the Jimmy Carter regime in which he forced companies to declare gas reserves flowing into interstate markets to be forevermore dedicated to interstate markets, a truly evil 'taking' from individuals and companies.
As most price controls went, this distorted the market tremendously as the interstate gas could not be sold more than 59 cents per mcf, whereas intrastate gas markets commanded well over 2 dollars per mcf.
It was a terrible perversion that forced Texans to produce their gas and sell it to other states cheaply when Texans had to pay at the same time horrific gas prices to heat their own homes.
We older Texans recall these days and developed the adage "Let them freeze in the dark".
And we remember the mistreatment we had at the hands of the feds and will not forget it.
So no, I reject the premise that in times of trials like now, it is an over-reach to protect our own first and foremost rather than trying to make the biggest buck one can make.
If a company wishes to conduct business in Texas and to extract the resources within our state, it is a priority that Texans are accommodated before that company's shareholders. For those that do not like those terms, seek out adventures in other states.
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I used to work under the Jimmy Carter regime in which he forced companies to declare gas reserves flowing into interstate markets to be forevermore dedicated to interstate markets, a truly evil 'taking' from individuals and companies.
As most price controls went, this distorted the market tremendously as the interstate gas could not be sold more than 59 cents per mcf, whereas intrastate gas markets commanded well over 2 dollars per mcf.
It was a terrible perversion that forced Texans to produce their gas and sell it to other states cheaply when Texans had to pay at the same time horrific gas prices to heat their own homes.
We older Texans recall these days and developed the adage "Let them freeze in the dark".
And we remember the mistreatment we had at the hands of the feds and will not forget it.
So no, I reject the premise that in times of trials like now, it is an over-reach to protect our own first and foremost rather than trying to make the biggest buck one can make.
If a company wishes to conduct business in Texas and to extract the resources within our state, it is a priority that Texans are accommodated before that company's shareholders. For those that do not like those terms, seek out adventures in other states.
People tend to forget there were two periods of massive lines to get gas in the 70's. In '73 it was the war over Israel and the Arab oil embargo, but there was another time of gas lines, in the late 70's when Carter really screwed up the oil economy with his commie price controls. Nixon was bad that way too, but not just oil. Remember his "price freezes?" They devastated the economy, not to mention "Whip Inflation Now!" by Ford. As if waving a pom-pon and wearing a button would chase that icky inflation away.
(https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/museum/ArtifactCollectionSamples/Catagories/WIN/regular/1987.617.jpg)
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Yabbut...pandering is still pandering. He knows he cannot fulfill a promise like that.
That ain't said. And it ain't either/or... I am not saying contracts cannot be honored.
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I used to work under the Jimmy Carter regime in which he forced companies to declare gas reserves flowing into interstate markets to be forevermore dedicated to interstate markets, a truly evil 'taking' from individuals and companies.
As most price controls went, this distorted the market tremendously as the interstate gas could not be sold more than 59 cents per mcf, whereas intrastate gas markets commanded well over 2 dollars per mcf.
It was a terrible perversion that forced Texans to produce their gas and sell it to other states cheaply when Texans had to pay at the same time horrific gas prices to heat their own homes.
We older Texans recall these days and developed the adage "Let them freeze in the dark".
And we remember the mistreatment we had at the hands of the feds and will not forget it.
So no, I reject the premise that in times of trials like now, it is an over-reach to protect our own first and foremost rather than trying to make the biggest buck one can make.
If a company wishes to conduct business in Texas and to extract the resources within our state, it is a priority that Texans are accommodated before that company's shareholders. For those that do not like those terms, seek out adventures in other states.
I still do not understand the belief that minerals, or any of its products, belong to others to dictate how they are used and not to the people that bought the mineral rights, paid the money to produce them, paid the money to get them ready for market.
Do you think you have a right to dictate what the farmer does with his topsoil because you live within the political borders?
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Do you think you have a right to dictate what the farmer does with his topsoil because you live within the political borders?
EnvironMENTALists believe they can do exactly that.
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People tend to forget there were two periods of massive lines to get gas in the 70's. In '73 it was the war over Israel and the Arab oil embargo, but there was another time of gas lines, in the late 70's when Carter really screwed up the oil economy with his commie price controls. Nixon was bad that way too, but not just oil. Remember his "price freezes?" They devastated the economy, not to mention "Whip Inflation Now!" by Ford. As if waving a pom-pon and wearing a button would chase that icky inflation away.
There is no problem that people face, no matter how bad that problem is, that government, with the best intentiond, cannot make worse.
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "
AUGUST 12, 1986
- Ronald Reagan
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EnvironMENTALists believe they can do exactly that.
Yep, same mentality and thought process.
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I still do not understand the belief that minerals, or any of its products, belong to others to dictate how they are used and not to the people that bought the mineral rights, paid the money to produce them, paid the money to get them ready for market.
Do you think you have a right to dictate what the farmer does with his topsoil because you live within the political borders?
I do not dispute that people who own or produce minerals should be free to do with them what they wish, with reservations.
Obvious reservations are selling them to terrorists or doing something else illegally with them. Or undertaking operations deemed unsafe or hazardous to individuals, like a pollutant that can kill people.
One other reservation that is important in the state of Texas: These minerals are found here, in this state, and produced from this state, and must adhere to conditions imposed by this state. There is not a country on the face of the earth which allows anybody in that country to mine and sell resources with impunity.
And since it is a Texas-sourced resource, this state has obligations to fulfill for its citizens first and foremost. Free marketing of resources produced in Texas which diminishes the welfare of Texas citizens, such as selling gas to interstate markets when intrastate markets are starving for gas, is one of those obligations. This state must protect its citizens from others making a buck off their misfortune. And that is an absolute.
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Yep, same mentality and thought process.
They all went to Bureaucrat University. That's were they drill and bash all the common sense out of the pupils.
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EnvironMENTALists believe they can do exactly that.
The wackos do.
I happen to be an environmentalist too. Because I like clean water and breathing fresh air.
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I do not dispute that people who own or produce minerals should be free to do with them what they wish, with reservations.
Obvious reservations are selling them to terrorists or doing something else illegally with them. Or undertaking operations deemed unsafe or hazardous to individuals, like a pollutant that can kill people.
One other reservation that is important in the state of Texas: These minerals are found here, in this state, and produced from this state, and must adhere to conditions imposed by this state. There is not a country on the face of the earth which allows anybody in that country to mine and sell resources with impunity.
And since it is a Texas-sourced resource, this state has obligations to fulfill for its citizens first and foremost. Free marketing of resources produced in Texas which diminishes the welfare of Texas citizens, such as selling gas to interstate markets when intrastate markets are starving for gas, is one of those obligations. This state must protect its citizens from others making a buck off their misfortune. And that is an absolute.
We will have to greatly disagree on this. The US has prospered greatly in the energy industries primarily because the individual can purchase and produce minerals for their profit. State Owned minerals always lag. Only when the resource is massive can they be significantly successful.
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We will have to greatly disagree on this. The US has prospered greatly in the energy industries primarily because the individual can purchase and produce minerals for their profit. State Owned minerals always lag. Only when the resource is massive can they be significantly successful.
You ae waaaaaay off when you believe I said minerals should be state owned.
Care to point me to a country where the minerals can be extracted by anybody and no government interference whatsoever?
It is called fantasy land.
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You ae waaaaaay off when you believe I said minerals should be state owned.
I did not mean to imply that. I was trying to point out the primary reason for the US success in this was they are NOT state own. Less government involvement is always better.
Care to point me to a country where the minerals can be extracted by anybody and no government interference whatsoever?
It is called fantasy land.
None at all. We are the best there is. I want to see it stay that way. I do not want to see more government controls.
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The wackos do.
I happen to be an environmentalist too. Because I like clean water and breathing fresh air.
I agree, hence my emphasis on "MENTAL." :tongue2:
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I did not mean to imply that. I was trying to point out the primary reason for the US success in this was they are NOT state own. Less government involvement is always better.
None at all. We are the best there is. I want to see it stay that way. I do not want to see more government controls.
I agree. We need to minimize governmental interference recognizing we cannot erase it.
And my priority with accepting any governmental controls are first, my state, second, my country, and none for any other.
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I will fall on the side of taking care of your own first, especially in an emergency. We have two major dams right here in the valley, and should have no problems getting power. And DIDN'T until governor Rasciot (R) changed state law to offer that power to the grid first, driving the cost of local power up by double. Which put the aluminum plant out of business too, btw.
Well friend @roamer_1 I have to disagree with you on this one; the natural gas in question never belonged to the state to begin with, it belonged to the owner of the mineral rights (I think, @thackney can correct me); I don't see how the state can legitimately interfere in the free decision of owners to dispose of their property as they see fit within existing contract law. Only if those mineral rights were sold to the state should the state be able to determine where the natural gas is sold, and even then existing contracts should be honored. So while I tend to like Greg Abbott, I have to conclude he's wrong on this one and has succumbed to politics of the moment.
Regarding your specific counter-example, I believe one could argue that hydroelectric power was never privately owned because neither water nor dam was ever privately owned, and the state in fact *can* make the decisions about how that hydroelectric power is sold. But this actually reinforces the authority of your governor to make that decision, although he might have chosen poorly.
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Well friend @roamer_1 I have to disagree with you on this one; the natural gas in question never belonged to the state to begin with, it belonged to the owner of the mineral rights (I think, @thackney can correct me); I don't see how the state can legitimately interfere in the free decision of owners to dispose of their property as they see fit within existing contract law. Only if those mineral rights were sold to the state should the state be able to determine where the natural gas is sold, and even then existing contracts should be honored. So while I tend to like Greg Abbott, I have to conclude he's wrong on this one and has succumbed to politics of the moment.
Regarding your specific counter-example, I believe one could argue that hydroelectric power was never privately owned because neither water nor dam was ever privately owned, and the state in fact *can* make the decisions about how that hydroelectric power is sold. But this actually reinforces the authority of your governor to make that decision, although he might have chosen poorly.
I respectively submit you are confusing right of ownership with the right of a regulatory authority to administer restrictions that benefit the public interest.
No country on the face of the earth will permit any individual, company or another country to indiscriminately produce minerals in it. Nada.
A public benefit might be to control the release of pollutants that could kill or injure others, or it could be like the Railroad Commission placing restrictions on the amount of production that can be made from wells to conserve resources or to prevent waste. These qualifications in Texas have been in place for many decades.
If this state has an existential emergency which requires immediate additional resources, then it is certainly within the prerogative of that state to conduct emergency rules to mitigate harm to citizens. There is really not a more important reason for the state authority to exist in the first place than to administer aid to its citizens when required.
Obviously we desire freedoms as much as possible. But to permit short term profiting at the expense of a person's well being seems morally corrupt.
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Natural Gas Market Chaos Continues as Texas Governor Bans Producers From Selling Outside State
https://www.naturalgasintel.com/natural-gas-market-chaos-continues-as-texas-governor-bans-producers-from-selling-outside-state/ (https://www.naturalgasintel.com/natural-gas-market-chaos-continues-as-texas-governor-bans-producers-from-selling-outside-state/)
February 17, 2021
The fallout of the prolonged Arctic freeze that’s draped over the central United States and into Texas is still unfolding, with a temporary ban on gas exports out of the Lone Star State the latest development in the ongoing crisis.
Hours before the surprising announcement, steep decreases in production and large swings in demand fueled Nymex gas futures prices for a second day. Facing what potentially could be the largest storage withdrawal of the winter so far, the March Nymex natural gas futures contract settled Wednesday at $3.219, up 9.0 cents from Tuesday’s close. April picked up 4.9 cents to $3.032.
Action in the cash markets remained volatile midweek as Oklahoma added another digit to next-day prices, while prices in other parts of the country also started to tack on more meaningful gains than in recent days. However, other areas tumbled in dramatic fashion, helping to send NGI’s Spot Gas National Avg. down $40.135 to $40.625.
The energy crisis in Texas is far from contained, with additional prolonged power outages implemented across the state early Wednesday as temperatures remained not far above freezing. The state’s electric grid operator, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, said some 185 generating units have tripped offline for one reason or another amid the unprecedented freeze. Until more generation comes back online, power restoration efforts would be hampered....
I agree with him. He is governor of Texas. No where else. You take care of home...first. This reminds me of the Ant and grasshopper story. Maybe some grasshoppers didn't prepare for their states?
I am so happy live in the SW.
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thackney complains:
"Why does Abbott get to tell a South Texas Gas company they cannot fulfill the contracts to supply gas to Florida because West Texas Gas companies do not do enough to protect their wells and gas plants against cold weather?"
Frankly a good move by Abbott. It should be politically popular as well.
When your state is literally starving for natural gas, you DO NOT permit producers to sell and export it OUT-of-state.
You keep it "in-house" and "take care of your own" first.
That's called... old-fashioned common sense.
Addendum:
When the emergency is over, then (of course) restore "the status quo".
But when Texans are freezin' because the fuel that would keep them warm and keep the lights on is being "exported out of state", NOT to do what Abbott is trying to do is... well, it's just plain nuts...
Like I have been saying, the next Holdomor will be over Energy, not food. It just hasn't come from Washington...yet.
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People tend to forget there were two periods of massive lines to get gas in the 70's. In '73 it was the war over Israel and the Arab oil embargo, but there was another time of gas lines, in the late 70's when Carter really screwed up the oil economy with his commie price controls. Nixon was bad that way too, but not just oil. Remember his "price freezes?" They devastated the economy, not to mention "Whip Inflation Now!" by Ford. As if waving a pom-pon and wearing a button would chase that icky inflation away.
(https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/museum/ArtifactCollectionSamples/Catagories/WIN/regular/1987.617.jpg)
I remember people turning their WIN buttons upside down and saying "Not In My time"...I rode the Oil boom of the late '70s/early 80s into a career doing wellsite geology, and now, geosteering horizontal wells (yes, it's going to be back in 2 months, if all goes well).
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I still do not understand the belief that minerals, or any of its products, belong to others to dictate how they are used and not to the people that bought the mineral rights, paid the money to produce them, paid the money to get them ready for market.
Do you think you have a right to dictate what the farmer does with his topsoil because you live within the political borders?
That dictum would be fascism, by definition. The private entities "own" the industry, but the Government controls the production and output.
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They all went to Bureaucrat University. That's were they drill and bash all the common sense out of the pupils.
When their pupils are unresponsive, they have succeeded...the pupil's pupils, that is...
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Well friend @roamer_1 I have to disagree with you on this one; the natural gas in question never belonged to the state to begin with, it belonged to the owner of the mineral rights (I think, @thackney can correct me); I don't see how the state can legitimately interfere in the free decision of owners to dispose of their property as they see fit within existing contract law. Only if those mineral rights were sold to the state should the state be able to determine where the natural gas is sold, and even then existing contracts should be honored. So while I tend to like Greg Abbott, I have to conclude he's wrong on this one and has succumbed to politics of the moment.
Well @HoustonSam I ain't welded to it - certainly so in normal circumstances. But in extraordinary circumstances, under emergency conditions... well that can be another whole thing. That the contracts are more important than the pipelines going empty to the point of freezing people dying, Well that just ain't right.
However, I am not discounting the responsibility of the individual either. I have already expressed the thought that every household is the first defense, that utilities are ultimately unreliable. They do go down and the individual is inevitably the bag-holder at that point in time. Still, reliance upon those systems inherently means they need to be robust, and the gas companies, not even mentioning the government, should rightly not leave all those folks hanging over contracts. Contracts can be modified after the fact, and regulations can be eased, Especially in the condition of such misery.
And finally, a flaw in your thinking, in that the mineral rights FIRST belong to the people, not the state, and not the purchaser of those rights. It would not be hard to insist, in the face of an emergency, that ALL contracts, sales and rights are contingent upon a reserved right of the people retained in such cases... Very similar to how AK provides a kickback to the people on all mineral sales, though my intent is to merely meet the requirements necessary to keep local pipelines full first, rather than a reimbursement upon sale, as AK does.
This is not thinking that is foreign in the West.
Regarding your specific counter-example, I believe one could argue that hydroelectric power was never privately owned because neither water nor dam was ever privately owned, and the state in fact *can* make the decisions about how that hydroelectric power is sold. But this actually reinforces the authority of your governor to make that decision, although he might have chosen poorly.
Right, but again, the state provided originally, in getting the dams approved, that the people would retain a benefit from allowing the dams in the first place. It is the peoples' resources, not the state's. And unlike your condition, it was ongoing, the people receiving the benefit of low power costs as that benefit.
In your case, I am speaking more to emergencies, and how resources are allotted because of 'acts of God'.
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I agree with him. He is governor of Texas. No where else. You take care of home...first. This reminds me of the Ant and grasshopper story. Maybe some grasshoppers didn't prepare for their states?
I am so happy live in the SW.
Only problem is, some of those grasshoppers who did not adequately prepare for the weather were in his state, too. Our Governor requested that we conserve energy (to help keep the grid up for the States far South of us in that grid unit), but it is not a requirement. When it hit -28 degrees, car engine heaters were being plugged in all over the State that were not ordinarily required for gasoline engines using synthetic motor oils at warmer temperatures (around zero)--but it helps even those when it is warmer (up to about 30 above). Diesels need to run no. 1 or a subzero blend (of No.1 and No 2), because No.2 diesel will gel and leave the truck stranded or inoperable until warmed and the fuel replaced. Here, however, Natural Gas is directly used as a heating fuel, and electricity needed to make that forced air system work. The alternative is broken pipes and dead people.
While many of us in older homes can 'get by' using fireplaces and sleeping in one room (we have done it), it is not the best alternative, especially in a home with copper plumbing.
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And finally, a flaw in your thinking, in that the mineral rights FIRST belong to the people, not the state, and not the purchaser of those rights. It would not be hard to insist, in the face of an emergency, that ALL contracts, sales and rights are contingent upon a reserved right of the people retained in such cases... Very similar to how AK provides a kickback to the people on all mineral sales, though my intent is to merely meet the requirements necessary to keep local pipelines full first, rather than a reimbursement upon sale, as AK does.
This is not thinking that is foreign in the West.
[...]
In your case, I am speaking more to emergencies, and how resources are allotted because of 'acts of God'.
@HoustonSam
Addendum:
Understand, I am not speaking of free NG, or price fixing, But only that local pipelines own a reserved right of the people to be kept full first, at full market price, in the case of a declared state emergency.
This is a simple addition to mineral sales laws, and a paragraph or two of boilerplate in downstream sales contracts, to indemnify downstream sellers in the case of such an emergency... In most cases, that would not cause much of a problem except bumping completion of a delivery or partial delivery a reasonable time. Businesses deal with such as this all the time.
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It ain't interstate commerce until it crosses state lines. So Abbott is protecting state resources and Texas citizens.
No one cares about Califorina's problems.
@Sled Dog @RetBobbyMI
California hasn't a damn thing to do with the problems facing the Americans and others in Texas during this emergency, find a anew Bogeyman.
Oh and have you noticed all the members that live in California saying nobody cares about Texas? Yeah me neither, only small people forget that we are all Americans in a crisis and politics have no place in an emergency.....................unless of course you are a democrat.
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@HoustonSam
Addendum:
Understand, I am not speaking of free NG, or price fixing, But only that local pipelines own a reserved right of the people to be kept full first, at full market price, in the case of a declared state emergency.
This is a simple addition to mineral sales laws, and a paragraph or two of boilerplate in downstream sales contracts, to indemnify downstream sellers in the case of such an emergency... In most cases, that would not cause much of a problem except bumping completion of a delivery or partial delivery a reasonable time. Businesses deal with such as this all the time.
I think you may be referring to "Force Majeure" clauses, which are inherent in most contracts promising delivery. (Funny that the 'dictionary' wanted to correct "Majeure" to "manure", but anyway, that may apply in this instance. Declaration of an "emergency" (what isn't, nowadays), or "crisis" may well enhance that invocation.
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@Sled Dog @RetBobbyMI
California hasn't a damn thing to do with the problems facing the Americans and others in Texas during this emergency, find a anew Bogeyman.
Oh and have you noticed all the members that live in California saying nobody cares about Texas? Yeah me neither, only small people forget that we are all Americans in a crisis and politics have no place in an emergency.....................unless of course you are a democrat.
Folks who live in climates where temperatures below freezing are the winter norm, and subzero temps aren't unusual have trouble understanding the plight of folks who live in warmer climes. I grew up further South, and yep, folks down that way are doubtless suffering right now. No one likes being miserable, and I hope y'all find a solution soon. Dependence on sources which are unreliable in practice hasn't helped the situation, and hopefully that will be looked at with an open mind and a minimum of "green politics". The planet has been here a long time, and it is the survival of humans which should concern us all first (regardless, the planet will be just fine, and a little more CO2 might be in order, for the folks who believe CO2 warms things up).
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I think you may be referring to "Force Majeure" clauses, which are inherent in most contracts promising delivery. (Funny that the 'dictionary' wanted to correct "Majeure" to "manure", but anyway, that may apply in this instance. Declaration of an "emergency" (what isn't, nowadays), or "crisis" may well enhance that invocation.
Yes, but if the current contracts do not contain the language, it won't help this time. I don't expect businesses to incur injury or liability. Especially without recompense... But adding such language to both the sale, and downstream contracts would be a big help next time.
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Well friend @roamer_1 I have to disagree with you on this one; the natural gas in question never belonged to the state to begin with, it belonged to the owner of the mineral rights (I think, @thackney can correct me); I don't see how the state can legitimately interfere in the free decision of owners to dispose of their property as they see fit within existing contract law. Only if those mineral rights were sold to the state should the state be able to determine where the natural gas is sold, and even then existing contracts should be honored. So while I tend to like Greg Abbott, I have to conclude he's wrong on this one and has succumbed to politics of the moment...
Absolutely @HoustonSam
I am done arguing on this topic with the people that want to take the private property because others planned so poorly.
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Absolutely @HoustonSam
I am done arguing on this topic with the people that want to take the private property because others planned so poorly.
What I propose is not 'taking' anything.
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thackney complains:
"Why does Abbott get to tell a South Texas Gas company they cannot fulfill the contracts to supply gas to Florida because West Texas Gas companies do not do enough to protect their wells and gas plants against cold weather?"
Frankly a good move by Abbott. It should be politically popular as well.
When your state is literally starving for natural gas, you DO NOT permit producers to sell and export it OUT-of-state.
You keep it "in-house" and "take care of your own" first.
That's called... old-fashioned common sense.
Addendum:
When the emergency is over, then (of course) restore "the status quo".
But when Texans are freezin' because the fuel that would keep them warm and keep the lights on is being "exported out of state", NOT to do what Abbott is trying to do is... well, it's just plain nuts...
The state doesn't own the gas.
There's that.
And shall we talk about the poor planning by the governor and the legislature to allow the growing dependence on intermittent energy sources such as sunshine and wind without properly analyzing the consequences when those sources cease to function?
And now Abbott wants to steal someone else's property in a grand-stand move to cover his own incompetent ass?
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It ain't interstate commerce until it crosses state lines. So Abbott is protecting state resources and Texas citizens.
No one cares about Califorina's problems.
Hello?
The gas company is selling their property across state lines. That makes it interstate.
The government attempting to usurper those property rights violates interstate commerce already in progress.
The gas companies have contracts to deliver, ya dig?
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The state doesn't own the gas.
There's that.
And shall we talk about the poor planning by the governor and the legislature to allow the growing dependence on intermittent energy sources such as sunshine and wind without properly analyzing the consequences when those sources cease to function?
And now Abbott wants to steal someone else's property in a grand-stand move to cover his own incompetent ass?
If all those wind turbine were Natural Gas Plants, our loss of power would have been worse. We did not have enough gas to run the ones that would run.
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thackney complained:
"I am done arguing on this topic with the people that want to take the private property because others planned so poorly."
and sled dog piled on with:
"And now Abbott wants to steal someone else's property in a grand-stand move"
I seriously doubt anyone's property (in this case, that of the gas producers) is being "stolen".
Will the producers not be compensated at market rates?
The issue is not "stolen property", and I'm appalled that people I might have otherwise respect as being "smarter than me" do not recognize this.
Rather, it is a matter of serious statewide emergency (in that people are at risk of freezing/dying), which could be alleviated through the temporary diversion of natural resources (the gas) -- and whether such diversions should be undetaken or not.
I believe that in this case, the dire situation of Texas' residents DO take precedence over fulfilling pending contracts. This doesn't mean the contracts are voided. It DOES mean that they will be fulfilled a little later.
After reading the arguments proffered by some folks here, is it any wonder why "conservatism" per se seems to be falling out of favor with the American public...?
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Hello?
The gas company is selling their property across state lines. That makes it interstate.
The government attempting to usurper those property rights violates interstate commerce already in progress.
The gas companies have contracts to deliver, ya dig?
Oh, so states by virtue of taxing goods ordered from out of the state are in contempt of interstate commerce?
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Oh, so states by virtue of taxing goods ordered from out of the state are in contempt of interstate commerce?
Sales Tax is applied at the point of sale/delivery, equal for goods produced in state or out.
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I used to work under the Jimmy Carter regime in which he forced companies to declare gas reserves flowing into interstate markets to be forevermore dedicated to interstate markets, a truly evil 'taking' from individuals and companies.
As most price controls went, this distorted the market tremendously as the interstate gas could not be sold more than 59 cents per mcf, whereas intrastate gas markets commanded well over 2 dollars per mcf.
It was a terrible perversion that forced Texans to produce their gas and sell it to other states cheaply when Texans had to pay at the same time horrific gas prices to heat their own homes.
We older Texans recall these days and developed the adage "Let them freeze in the dark".
And we remember the mistreatment we had at the hands of the feds and will not forget it.
So no, I reject the premise that in times of trials like now, it is an over-reach to protect our own first and foremost rather than trying to make the biggest buck one can make.
If a company wishes to conduct business in Texas and to extract the resources within our state, it is a priority that Texans are accommodated before that company's shareholders. For those that do not like those terms, seek out adventures in other states.
Actually, the legal obligation of the officers of that company are towards the interests of the shareholders.
Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?
New York ALWAYS freezes.
New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.
Sounds like the political hacks of Texas are seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence.
And, again, once the gas is out of the ground and in the pipes, the gas belongs to the customers. Maybe the state of Texas can get into a bidding situation and BUY the gas they need....hmmmm?
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Oh, so states by virtue of taxing goods ordered from out of the state are in contempt of interstate commerce?
You mean that nasty rule the Congress passed for the sake of over-taxed holes like California and Massachusetts where they can force sellers outside of those states to pay those confiscatory sales tax rates as if they were in those shit holes?
Sales tax should be charged where the product is sold, and if that's outside of CA, then the socialists of CA don't get a cut.
That works for gas, too, as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah, I would say that those states don't have the Constitutional authority to impose their sales taxes on other states, and that is most definitely in violation of Section I, Article 8.
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Actually, the legal obligation of the officers of that company are towards the interests of the shareholders.
Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?
New York ALWAYS freezes.
New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.
Sounds like the political hacks of Texas are seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence.
And, again, once the gas is out of the ground and in the pipes, the gas belongs to the customers. Maybe the state of Texas can get into a bidding situation and BUY the gas they need....hmmmm?
Negative. Those officers have to comply with applicable laws before they can do the shareholders' bidding. Or they will find themselves in jail.
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thackney complained:
"I am done arguing on this topic with the people that want to take the private property because others planned so poorly."
and sled dog piled on with:
"And now Abbott wants to steal someone else's property in a grand-stand move"
I seriously doubt anyone's property (in this case, that of the gas producers) is being "stolen".
Will the producers not be compensated at market rates?
The issue is not "stolen property", and I'm appalled that people I might have otherwise respect as being "smarter than me" do not recognize this.
Rather, it is a matter of serious statewide emergency (in that people are at risk of freezing/dying), which could be alleviated through the temporary diversion of natural resources (the gas) -- and whether such diversions should be undetaken or not.
I believe that in this case, the dire situation of Texas' residents DO take precedence over fulfilling pending contracts. This doesn't mean the contracts are voided. It DOES mean that they will be fulfilled a little later.
After reading the arguments proffered by some folks here, is it any wonder why "conservatism" per se seems to be falling out of favor with the American public...?
The gas was earmarked for customers elsewhere.
What happened to their rights? They had a contract, didn't they?
"Conservatism" means the state having enough sense to PLAN for natural disasters, not reacting in a flurry of panic when it gets a little bit cold outside. Texas never had a winter before? This problem in Texas was caused by Gaia worshippers. Don't blame the conservatives when they reject later socialist efforts to undue what the cultists did in the first place.
The bottom line:
Texas is supposed to be a big-boy, grown-up state. So they need to pull their underoos back up and fix their problem without all the whining. They caused what happened to them, they should be embarrassed and should shut up about it.
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Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?
New York ALWAYS freezes.
New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.
Now hold on, that ain't right.
NY is made for cold. Texas is made for heat.
You want a fair comparison, take the hottest day in NY in 130 years and see how much trouble NY gets into. Or a mild to moderate hurricane... See how NY handles that. Predictably, poorly.
I get there's a whole lot of room and desire to point fingers. But off the get-go, understand that this was a tad past extraordinary circumstances for Texas. Sh*t fell down just like it would from a class 4 or better hurricane... To a great degree, not planned for because expenses would outweigh the risk, even as planning and hardening against a class 4 hurricane is mostly absurd. Or planning around a 100 yr flood plain... with the expectation that there would be no losses at all.
C'mon. That ain't right. Not any more than expecting NY (or Montana) to handle 115 degrees flawlessly and with grace.
Some things just ain't nobody's fault. Some things just ARE. You see it coming and all you can do is say 'Oh, sh*t' and then it hits you upside the head with a 2x4.
Some day, the caldera at Yellowstone is gonna go off. And it will be epic. I ain't gonna take kindly to folks saying how Montana should have better prepared. How the hell do you prepare for that? Even though MT is in a volcanic zone. Even though we have some experience in that regard... At some point the event outweighs ANY experience.
Not to say that after-action should not be considered. This was a major hit, and chances are steps can be taken to soften the blow next time. But there will be a next time. And it will suck. And folks will drop the ball.
So in my mind, the first point of after-action should be the regular citizen understanding the cold hard truth: All y'all have grown soft, relying on a system that is doomed to fail at some point, like all systems DO. Doesn't matter if it is Texas or New York. The system WILL fail, and !YOU! will be on your own. That is going to happen in some degree to each and every one of us.
So instead of worrying about what the fat cats are doing... Wonder what !YOU! can do to protect !YOURSELF! ... Because the time is coming, surely. Folks that made it through the knothole would do well, best of all, to calculate where they themselves could have done better... What steps they can take to take the weight off the system in a time of trial, and not rely on it at all.
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Now hold on, that ain't right.
NY is made for cold. Texas is made for heat.
You want a fair comparison, take the hottest day in NY in 130 years and see how much trouble NY gets into. Or a mild to moderate hurricane... See how NY handles that. Predictably, poorly.
I get there's a whole lot of room and desire to point fingers. But off the get-go, understand that this was a tad past extraordinary circumstances for Texas. Sh*t fell down just like it would from a class 4 or better hurricane... To a great degree, not planned for because expenses would outweigh the risk, even as planning and hardening against a class 4 hurricane is mostly absurd. Or planning around a 100 yr flood plain... with the expectation that there would be no losses at all.
C'mon. That ain't right. Not any more than expecting NY (or Montana) to handle 115 degrees flawlessly and with grace.
Some things just ain't nobody's fault. Some things just ARE. You see it coming and all you can do is say 'Oh, sh*t' and then it hits you upside the head with a 2x4.
Some day, the caldera at Yellowstone is gonna go off. And it will be epic. I ain't gonna take kindly to folks saying how Montana should have better prepared. How the hell do you prepare for that? Even though MT is in a volcanic zone. Even though we have some experience in that regard... At some point the event outweighs ANY experience.
Not to say that after-action should not be considered. This was a major hit, and chances are steps can be taken to soften the blow next time. But there will be a next time. And it will suck. And folks will drop the ball.
So in my mind, the first point of after-action should be the regular citizen understanding the cold hard truth: All y'all have grown soft, relying on a system that is doomed to fail at some point, like all systems DO. Doesn't matter if it is Texas or New York. The system WILL fail, and !YOU! will be on your own. That is going to happen in some degree to each and every one of us.
So instead of worrying about what the fat cats are doing... Wonder what !YOU! can do to protect !YOURSELF! ... Because the time is coming, surely. Folks that made it through the knothole would do well, best of all, to calculate where they themselves could have done better... What steps they can take to take the weight off the system in a time of trial, and not rely on it at all.
Well, let me put this this way.
Insulation works both ways. It will keep heat in, as those of us up north know full well, but by the same token, it will keep heat out as well. (which is why those fancy expensive coolers keep ice for a couple of days when you really want a cold beverage. After that, it is a matter of making sure you have the gadgets to either make heat or remove it inside whatever climate you want controlled. Enough Texans have worked in North Dakota's oil patch to figure out how to keep their treaters from freezing up, even if they rarely face temperatures worse than a spring day here.
At some point a question of being cheap and maybe a dash of hubris come into play. Even here, when the weather hits -30 (static air), some things don't work. You won't know for certain they will until they do under those conditions, and the best laid plans of mice and men... Still, the effort is made, and generally successful because it IS made, even if it costs a bit more, because here, as we well know, failure is not an option, especially when you have to thaw the ground bury folks. The knowledge is there, there is historical precedent for such temperatures there, and it's folly to think it won't happen again, ever. But humans tend to forget quickly, move on, reestablish their normalcy bias, and not learn one thing from history, instead of being ready for next time.
As for when the caldera pops, well, some things we don't have much experience with, considering it's been a while since the last time. The last super volcano event (for certain) reduced the humans to a real genetic bottleneck (Toba), and if the Minoans were eliminated by such, may well have spawned the legends of Atlantis (there is always a grain of truth in legends). If that happens, well, aside from going north and east and being geared up for -40 weather in July, I'm not sure what will work, and even if that will--we might have enough ridges between here and there, and the low pressure system generated by the release of heat will likely suck arctic air to where we are. Most past ash falls have been mostly to the southwest of this area, although I expect wed get some--kinda like with Mt. St Helens, and ruin engines on the way out of here, because the clear cold air would be coming in out of Northern Canada before the major ash fall began. That's all theory we have no experience with, unlike winter at this latitude, which, as I said, a lot of Texans have had experience with.
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Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?
New York ALWAYS freezes.
New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.
Sounds like the political hacks of Texas are seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence.
The infrastructure here is designed for the conditions that occur reliably year after year; those conditions are 100 degrees F week after week during the summer when north of 70 GW is needed to power air conditioning, not single digit and negative temperatures. It isn't incompetence or political hackdom to design for, and maintain capital budgets for, conditions that occur frequently rather than conditions that occur infrequently.
Risk is understood as the product of an event's probability with its consequences; TX has bet on the former term being small and failed to recognize how large the latter term has become. I suspect greater winterization will be required in regulations going forward, and I suspect most Texans will approve of some increase in their utility bills to accommodate those requirements.
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Well, let me put this this way.
Insulation works both ways. It will keep heat in, as those of us up north know full well, but by the same token, it will keep heat out as well. (which is why those fancy expensive coolers keep ice for a couple of days when you really want a cold beverage.
Or there's the redneck way, where he takes his cooler and sinks it in spooge inside of a Rubbermaid tote, and gets the same dang thing, and he don't need your fancy-ass high-dollar cooler at all.
Or there's the hillbilly way, where he just takes what he needs made cold, puts it in quart jars, and puts the quarts in a cage, and sinks the whole mess in the well, not even needing the things the redneck does.
There's ways and ways. Some are better than others, till they're not.
After that, it is a matter of making sure you have the gadgets to either make heat or remove it inside whatever climate you want controlled. Enough Texans have worked in North Dakota's oil patch to figure out how to keep their treaters from freezing up, even if they rarely face temperatures worse than a spring day here.
Maye true - but what's missing is something you and me know natively... The system WILL fail, and it will fail at the worst possible time. You and me know that intimately, and we are both ready to make do. Now, I ain't been to your place, and I ain't never seen your face. But I make that claim knowing full well I am damn well right. I KNOW you have alt heat. I KNOW you have alt light. You very likely have alt electric too, though that is less important... And you may even have your freezer sitting out on the porch. I KNOW that because of where you are, and that you are alive to push the buttons on your keyboard.
We in the (rural) north do not have the convenience of reliance on the system... ANY system. We have to make do for ourselves. It is a necessity here. Them Texans that have drifted north - And I too know that happens... I have punched cows with Texans - Them Texans likely have learned to live in the north and know how... But they drift on south again and find it ain't a worry... So even with the knowledge, they don't assemble the possibles needed, which is the same dang thing as being without the knowledge altogether.
That's the thing, right there. I don't think it's an hubris. There ain't a NEED down there, but merely a caution... So they get caught with their pants down. Hopefully the after-action realization will prepare them for the next go around. And foremost in that is the realization of reality: The system WILL fail, and it WILL FAIL at the worst imaginable time. Texas has to learn to make do again.
And I say that a bit too flippantly - I know that many WERE ready and DID make do - Likely all of em out on the farm and out of the city, or shop-dawgs and blue collar in the city... I would like an after-action thread where Texans note what worked and what didn't, and how they can better withstand alone - That thread would be interesting.
And mobedda that than whining about fat cats and how they let everyone down (which should just be presumed in the first place). There is an education to be had, and you will find that after-action story-telling all the time up in here... Which helps folks get a plan, and implement changes.
At some point a question of being cheap and maybe a dash of hubris come into play. Even here, when the weather hits -30 (static air), some things don't work. You won't know for certain they will until they do under those conditions, and the best laid plans of mice and men... Still, the effort is made, and generally successful because it IS made, even if it costs a bit more, because here, as we well know, failure is not an option, especially when you have to thaw the ground bury folks. The knowledge is there, there is historical precedent for such temperatures there, and it's folly to think it won't happen again, ever. But humans tend to forget quickly, move on, reestablish their normalcy bias, and not learn one thing from history, instead of being ready for next time.
That's all right. I had a bit of that when I lost power up in here for what was supposed to be four days. A vicious wind came through annd turned the woods into pixie sticks and blew down a whole lot of what was above ground (medium-duty transmission and lesser)... My own systems didn't fail - I largely didn't use them anymore than I usually do... But I found a gaping flaw in my intermediate preparedness... Too much work to haul out everything, so I figured to power through the night and worry about it tomorrow in the daylight... Power came back on during the night, and I was alright all the way along, because I had the possibles. But the comfort was less than I would expect.
So I am going to work on intermediate systems (heavy investment into rechargeables, UPS and power stations, and LED lighting, as an instance), and make it far easier to engage fail-over systems... Because living through a night with no internet, cell set to full-sip, reading L'amour by headlamp was not fun enough.
So yeah, even experienced folks have room for improvement, always. I ain't throwing stones. I am leaning into solar, and batteries as a part of that intermediacy too, so I don't need the jeny as fast. Maybe four hours or so... and that augments when I DO need the jenny, because I can charge up the batts and shut it off again. A MASSIVE non-critical hole was found... and I do aim to patch it up.
As for when the caldera pops, well, some things we don't have much experience with, considering it's been a while since the last time. The last super volcano event (for certain) reduced the humans to a real genetic bottleneck (Toba), and if the Minoans were eliminated by such, may well have spawned the legends of Atlantis (there is always a grain of truth in legends). If that happens, well, aside from going north and east and being geared up for -40 weather in July, I'm not sure what will work, and even if that will--we might have enough ridges between here and there, and the low pressure system generated by the release of heat will likely suck arctic air to where we are. Most past ash falls have been mostly to the southwest of this area, although I expect wed get some--kinda like with Mt. St Helens, and ruin engines on the way out of here, because the clear cold air would be coming in out of Northern Canada before the major ash fall began. That's all theory we have no experience with, unlike winter at this latitude, which, as I said, a lot of Texans have had experience with.
I used a volcano ad-absurdum... I was grasping for something a feller would not be ready for up in here. And to describe the idea that some things are just bigger than you can plan for. SHTF down there in Texas, bigger and badder than anyone figured on, and when the system got put to the test, it fell down. That ain't no surprise in an extraordinary circumstance... And that was what I was getting at - Shifting focus from being upset that the system failed, to a necessary awareness of a need for self-reliance. That was my point.
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Sales Tax is applied at the point of sale/delivery, equal for goods produced in state or out.
Point of sale (POS) and point of delivery (POD) are two different things in the logistics world. Sales taxes are applied at the point of sale, not the delivery. thus it is Interstate commerce if bought out of state and delivered into another.
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Actually, the legal obligation of the officers of that company are towards the interests of the shareholders.
Why didn't Texas plan for a little cold weather?
New York ALWAYS freezes.
New York NEVER suffers electric or gas shortages thereby, except for the occasional inconvenience of freezing rain and downed power lines.
Sounds like the political hacks of Texas are seeking scapegoats for their own incompetence.
And, again, once the gas is out of the ground and in the pipes, the gas belongs to the customers. Maybe the state of Texas can get into a bidding situation and BUY the gas they need....hmmmm?
Never?
Gov. Cuomo’s Self-Inflicted Natural Gas Shortage Coming to a Head
https://energycentral.com/c/og/gov-cuomo%E2%80%99s-self-inflicted-natural-gas-shortage-coming-head
Nov 22, 2019
State regulators admit there’s a gas shortage amid utility fight
https://nypost.com/2019/10/17/state-regulators-admit-theres-a-gas-shortage-amid-utility-fight/
October 17, 2019
Gas Shortages Give New York an Early Taste of the Green New Deal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-shortages-give-new-york-an-early-taste-of-the-green-new-deal-11550272395
July 11, 2012
We now know the cause of New York’s massive blackout
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/30/us/nyc-blackout-con-ed-explanation-trnd/index.html
July 30, 2019
August 14, 2003 Blackout
https://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/Web/5FA2EC9B01FE415885256E69004D4C9E/$File/doc14463.pdf?OpenElement
...loss of electricity to 6.3 million customers...
-
Now hold on, that ain't right.
NY is made for cold. Texas is made for heat.
You want a fair comparison, take the hottest day in NY in 130 years and see how much trouble NY gets into. Or a mild to moderate hurricane... See how NY handles that. Predictably, poorly.
I get there's a whole lot of room and desire to point fingers. But off the get-go, understand that this was a tad past extraordinary circumstances for Texas. Sh*t fell down just like it would from a class 4 or better hurricane... To a great degree, not planned for because expenses would outweigh the risk, even as planning and hardening against a class 4 hurricane is mostly absurd. Or planning around a 100 yr flood plain... with the expectation that there would be no losses at all.
C'mon. That ain't right. Not any more than expecting NY (or Montana) to handle 115 degrees flawlessly and with grace.
Some things just ain't nobody's fault. Some things just ARE. You see it coming and all you can do is say 'Oh, sh*t' and then it hits you upside the head with a 2x4.
Some day, the caldera at Yellowstone is gonna go off. And it will be epic. I ain't gonna take kindly to folks saying how Montana should have better prepared. How the hell do you prepare for that? Even though MT is in a volcanic zone. Even though we have some experience in that regard... At some point the event outweighs ANY experience.
Not to say that after-action should not be considered. This was a major hit, and chances are steps can be taken to soften the blow next time. But there will be a next time. And it will suck. And folks will drop the ball.
So in my mind, the first point of after-action should be the regular citizen understanding the cold hard truth: All y'all have grown soft, relying on a system that is doomed to fail at some point, like all systems DO. Doesn't matter if it is Texas or New York. The system WILL fail, and !YOU! will be on your own. That is going to happen in some degree to each and every one of us.
So instead of worrying about what the fat cats are doing... Wonder what !YOU! can do to protect !YOURSELF! ... Because the time is coming, surely. Folks that made it through the knothole would do well, best of all, to calculate where they themselves could have done better... What steps they can take to take the weight off the system in a time of trial, and not rely on it at all.
Sure, it's fine.
Winter happens in Texas every year. Sometimes worse that others.
New York City has enjoyed the visit of major hurricanes in the past. As someone from the upstate region, I'm all for telling NYC they should have been spending their own money to prepare for the next hurricane that comes along, because come along it shall, and to leave my money alone when it happens.
There's this concept from the colonial era that today's modern soft-and-girlish citizens have completely forgotten.
Self-reliance and competence.
Has American really considered the consequences of putting windmills all over the landscape?
No.
Will America change it's approach to increased wind-mill reliance in the face of what happened to Texas?
No.
Is the Rodent War on US Energy Independence going to slow down in the face of what happened this winter?
No.
What's going to happen if Yellowstone erupts on a massive scale?
People are going to die. By the millions. There is no economic way to plan and prepare for something not even remotely foreseeable at the present time.
But winters happen every year.
Every.
Year.
Someday Mount Shasta will erupt again. California should be planning for the event, including a good strong emergency fund devoted to that precise occurrence. The taxpayers of other states should not be affected, not by one penny. But California is not fiscally mature, to say the least. So why aren't the 400 Congress-Creatures from the other states not cementing into law their refusal to fund California's criminal fiscal negligence?
When the Toilet By The Bay has yet another major earthquake, who should pay, the people of Idaho Falls or the People Dumping On The Streets of San Francisco?
Normal people plan for accidents with insurance.
Normal states plan for natural disasters with prudent financial planning.
No state in the US is normal, apparently. They're all run by children.
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Never?
Gov. Cuomo’s Self-Inflicted Natural Gas Shortage Coming to a Head
https://energycentral.com/c/og/gov-cuomo%E2%80%99s-self-inflicted-natural-gas-shortage-coming-head
Nov 22, 2019
State regulators admit there’s a gas shortage amid utility fight
https://nypost.com/2019/10/17/state-regulators-admit-theres-a-gas-shortage-amid-utility-fight/
October 17, 2019
Gas Shortages Give New York an Early Taste of the Green New Deal
https://www.wsj.com/articles/gas-shortages-give-new-york-an-early-taste-of-the-green-new-deal-11550272395
July 11, 2012
We now know the cause of New York’s massive blackout
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/30/us/nyc-blackout-con-ed-explanation-trnd/index.html
July 30, 2019
August 14, 2003 Blackout
https://www3.dps.ny.gov/pscweb/WebFileRoom.nsf/Web/5FA2EC9B01FE415885256E69004D4C9E/$File/doc14463.pdf?OpenElement
...loss of electricity to 6.3 million customers...
Well....when I left New York it was before Rodney King achieved hero status. That boy then was still nothing but an unknown drug addicted male prostitute. But I know my siblings left behind have still never frozen in the dark thanks to Rodent Policies ruining the state.
Thanks for your links, but all you've done is proven that Rodents should never be allowed to be in government, not even as union members cleaning toilets with their tongues.
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I used a volcano ad-absurdum... I was grasping for something a feller would not be ready for up in here. And to describe the idea that some things are just bigger than you can plan for. SHTF down there in Texas, bigger and badder than anyone figured on, and when the system got put to the test, it fell down. That ain't no surprise in an extraordinary circumstance... And that was what I was getting at - Shifting focus from being upset that the system failed, to a necessary awareness of a need for self-reliance. That was my point.
Agreed and noted as such.
But a cold winter is nothing unusual, even if this particular event was somewhat outside the statistical norm.
Texas SHOULD have been prepared for this event.
There's another event the entire nation should be getting prepared for. When the next Carrington Event happens, a massive Solar Mass Ejection flare that hammers the US magnetic field, the entire power grid of the US is vulnerable and no efforts are being made to address what is certainly a known and expected event.
The entire planet's electrical grid will fail. Ours should not be allowed to collapse. But our national grid can't even handle a wee bit of chill.
And, yeah, this will be an event that affects the entire nation equally and is suitable for intelligent Congressional action.
Too bad we don't have any intelligent Congress-Creatures.
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Agreed and noted as such.
But a cold winter is nothing unusual, even if this particular event was somewhat outside the statistical norm.
Texas SHOULD have been prepared for this event.
Well... in a word, no. There has not been weather this bad down there in living memory. Grampaw never seen it.
And since that kind of weather, everything more technical than a buckboard came into being. Alright... they had steam engines by then, and horseless carriages were all the rage in the big cities... but you get my drift.
You stop and think of everything that would have to change to winterize Texas. Every waterline would have to go 3 ft or better in the ground. All the plumbing in exterior walls and attics would have to be moved.
D00d. They don't have PLOWS. Not to mention snow blowers and all. Mini splits are all the rage down there... cheap and easy, and 100% gonna not function below freezing, not to mention below zero. Nobody's got heavy parkas or muks, They ain't got sh*t. And you're braggin up how they should have known better.
I like pokin fun at my Texan brothers about their inability to handle cold... There's a pic wandering around that says 'I survived the storm of 2012' or some such with a solo cup full of ice spilled in an asphalt parking lot. HAHAHA! Good fun and all... This is damn well different. Folks are dead. Hell stock tanks froze up solid (see, they don't have tank heaters down that way).. Even if you were right, which you ain't, it would be flat wrong to poke at em now.
This is some serious damn business here. I agree that folks should take steps. I agree that individual responsibility is paramount. I have said as much in these threads. But to blithely waive them off and say 'they have winter all the time' is just purely bullshit.
There's another event the entire nation should be getting prepared for. When the next Carrington Event happens, a massive Solar Mass Ejection flare that hammers the US magnetic field, the entire power grid of the US is vulnerable and no efforts are being made to address what is certainly a known and expected event.
The entire planet's electrical grid will fail. Ours should not be allowed to collapse. But our national grid can't even handle a wee bit of chill.
And, yeah, this will be an event that affects the entire nation equally and is suitable for intelligent Congressional action.
Too bad we don't have any intelligent Congress-Creatures.
BOO! Tell you what... it wouldn't hurt me a lick. and I'd have more work than I'd know what to do with.
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Point of sale (POS) and point of delivery (POD) are two different things in the logistics world. Sales taxes are applied at the point of sale, not the delivery. thus it is Interstate commerce if bought out of state and delivered into another.
Then why am I charged my State sales tax on internet purchases (out of state)? The tax may be applied at the point of sale, but it is the tax for the point of delivery.
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Then why am I charged my State sales tax on internet purchases (out of state)? The tax may be applied at the point of sale, but it is the tax for the point of delivery.
Exactly the point. States charging state sales taxes on interstate commerce.