The Briefing Room
State Chapters => Arizona => Topic started by: HikerGuy83 on November 09, 2020, 01:23:40 am
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Some other threads have digressed to the subject of John McCain.
As I followed him (as best I could) he seemed very inconsistent in his positions. He could be very animated about some things that were minor and totally deadpan on things that were pretty important.
I have read several articles on him that paint a different picture.
I would like to gather information here (so we can keep it away from other threads) and so a picture can be painted that is based on true history (including things he might have said).
Let's keep in fact related if we can...please.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html)
This article is about his first marriage.
His first wife, Carol, is the main subject.
But there is a lot of commentary on McCain.
From this article, I get that:
1. Carol, his first wife, had been married before.
2. She had two children.
3. She divorced her first husband for infidelity (and got what ????)
4. She met McCain when he was 27 or 28.
5. They were married in March, 1965.
6. He gets shot down.
7. She is in a near lethal car wreck that required several major surgeries and left her somewhat disfigured. Christmas 1969
8. She does not tell McCain.
9. Ross Perot pays for her medical care.
10. He returns in 1973. Privately he is appalled at his wife's appearance (she has gained weight and lost 5 inches due to bone removal from the accident)
11. He has admitted that he caroused around while still married.
12. 1979 - He meets Cindy at a cocktail party.....
13. He pursues her for six months flying around the country to meet up with her (obviously an affair).
14. He decides to end his marriage - Carol and the kids are devastated.
15. April 1980 - The divorce if finalized - Carol did not contest
16. McCain agrees to a generous divorce settlement.
17. McCain and City are married in 1980......
From there he was introduced into politics and never looked back.
The Reagans cared for Carol. She was part of the 1980 campaign and planned several key events.
Commentary from Ross Perot (2008):
But Ross Perot, who paid her medical bills all those years ago, now believes that both Carol McCain and the American people have been taken in by a man who is unusually slick and cruel – even by the standards of modern politics.
‘McCain is the classic opportunist. He’s always reaching for attention and glory,’ he said.
‘After he came home, Carol walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona. And the rest is history.’
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Read this: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,372764.msg2321940.html#msg2321940 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,372764.msg2321940.html#msg2321940)
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I had read it before (on that thread).
I want to keep things as compartmentalized as I can to treat this in detail.
I was going to look up comments on his temper from several articles.
He was known for getting really upset.
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I did some searching on McCain's temper.
The following were examples of what some have written:
But it is not just McCain's politics that are disturbing. It is his personality, too. For McCain has a secret reputation as a man with a ferocious, unpredictable temper. He is a man who has a knack for pursuing vendettas against those he thinks have slighted him, even if they are lowly aides.
The list of worrying incidents is long. In 1995 he ended up almost physically scuffling with aged Senator Strom Thurmond on the Senate floor. And, according to some accounts, in 2006 he had a fight with Arizona congressman Rick Renzi, throwing blows in a scrap whose details have only recently been detailed in Schecter's book. Schecter unearthed another unpleasant incident from 1992 in which McCain, tired after a long day's campaign, reacted badly to his wife Cindy teasing him about his baldness. 'At least I don't plaster on the make-up like a trollop, you bleep,' McCain snapped in front of eyewitnesses. Schecter says he has three sources for the story. McCain's campaign have denied it.
Such public outbursts, and many other private ones, have concerned people even in his own party. Former New Hampshire Republican Senator Robert Smith publicly voiced his concerns, once saying McCain's temper ' ... would place this country at risk in international affairs, and the world perhaps in danger'. That sentiment was echoed by Mississippi Republican Senator Thad Cochran, who told a Boston newspaper: 'The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me.'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/22/johnmccain.uselections2008 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/22/johnmccain.uselections2008)
In winter 2007, John McCain’s presidential bid was bleeding for money. The campaign had fired senior staff. And the candidate had only 54% of support from Republicans in his home state of Arizona ahead of the primaries. But it was a speech Vladimir Putin gave at the Munich Security Conference—where the Russian president lambasted the United States for cultivating a world of “instability and dangerâ€â€”that set the senator’s teeth on edge.
“I remember John McCain becoming furiously angry with this speech and wanting to do an immediate press conference to respond to it,†McCain’s former foreign policy advisor Niall Ferguson, a British historian, told Observer. “That’s when I saw the impulse McCain, ‘Fighting John,’ who had to be talked out of this vehement rejoinder of Putin.â€
“Fighting John†was a side of McCain that commanded the respect of his fellow soldiers, and later defined his career as a politician. Former CIA Director R. James Woolsey, who also advised the senator’s 2008 bid for the presidency, recalled his interviews with half a dozen Naval officers who had been detained with McCain at Hao Lo Prison—the infamous Vietnamese torture site nicknamed ‘Hanoi Hilton’ by American soldiers.
“They all said, pretty much this: ‘John and I have always gotten along most of the time, but we have on occasion gotten in fights…Last time we played poker, we nearly brained each other, but I love him like a brother and would follow him anywhere,'†Woolsey told Observer. “And that’s John McCain.â€
https://observer.com/2018/08/how-john-mccains-temper-drove-him-from-hanoi-hilton-to-the-senate/ (https://observer.com/2018/08/how-john-mccains-temper-drove-him-from-hanoi-hilton-to-the-senate/)
About a year later, McCain reportedly erupted again, this time at a meeting with Arizona's then-Gov. Evan Mecham, who was about to be impeached after being indicted on felony charges.
Karen Johnson, then Mecham's secretary and now an Arizona state senator, recalled how McCain told Mecham that he was "causing the party a lot of problems" and was an embarrassment to the party.
"Sen. McCain got very angry," Johnson recalled, "and I said, 'Why are you talking to the governor like this? You're causing problems yourself. You're an embarrassment.' "
Johnson would go on to work at three different jobs over the next five years, and she said that each time, McCain would contact her boss and try to get her removed.
The McCain campaign didn't respond to repeated requests for comment.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24498646.html (https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24498646.html)
And article on his temper…..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991031/aponline183823_000.htm (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991031/aponline183823_000.htm)
John McCain’s Democratic colleagues in the Senate are zeroing in on his oft-discussed temper, questioning whether the presumptive Republican presidential nominee is too volatile to be commander in chief.
In separate interviews with Politico on Tuesday, Senate Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) said they have seen McCain “explode.â€
“He has a huge anger problem,†Boxer said. “And he never hid that. ... I have seen it happen on the Senate floor many, many times. … He has exploded at me a couple times.â€
Boxer said McCain has always apologized after the dust-ups. Nonetheless, she insinuated that McCain’s temperament makes him unfit for the White House.
“It’s all well and good to apologize,†Boxer added, “but if you are in charge of that black box, I worry about that.â€
Durbin noted McCain’s temper is “well documented,†saying that he had been on the receiving end of it for what he considered “minor things.â€
“I was in a confrontation with him … and he was quick to explode,†said Durbin. “It simmered for a long time.â€
https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/democrats-take-aim-at-mccains-temper-012846 (https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/democrats-take-aim-at-mccains-temper-012846)
In January, Thad Cochran, a Republican senator for Mississippi, said the thought of Mr McCain as president sent a “cold chill down my spineâ€, describing him as “hotheaded†and “erraticâ€. James Dobson, the influential evangelical leader, said he could not support Mr McCain, in part because he “has a legendary temper and often uses foul and obscene languageâ€.
On Capitol Hill, his outbursts are part of congressional folklore. One of the most recent came last year when, according to witnesses, he shouted, "bleep you!†at John Cornyn, a Republican senator for Texas, during a heated exchange over immigration reform.
A similar tirade in 1999 cost him the support of Pete Domenici, a New Mexico senator, in the 2000 presidential election. “I decided I didn’t want this guy anywhere near a trigger,†said Mr Domenici.
https://www.ft.com/content/f28123a8-0725-11dd-b41e-0000779fd2ac (https://www.ft.com/content/f28123a8-0725-11dd-b41e-0000779fd2ac)
The senator’s temper and temperament remain in question. His biographer quotes him: “At the smallest provocation I would go off into a mad frenzy, and then suddenly crash to the floor unconscious.†Has he moderated over time? Apparently. Somewhat. Senators who have had John McCain scream hyphenated obscenities at them nose-to-nose include Rick Santorum, Richard Shelby, Thad Cochran, and James Inhofe. Most colleagues decline comment. The man has been called psychologically unstable.
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You are off to a good start, @HikerGuy83! whole books can be written on the subject of his infamous temper. For a "war hero" he sure was infantile. My chief complaint has always been he fights conservatives with 10 more vigor than leftists.
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Hmm..........McCain, Hero or Rat???
A suggestion about your planned research!
Skip the sexual gossip, hearsay, innuendo and rumor, as it's predictable
horse manure produced to garner attention from those who are gullible.
A core fact about John McCain is that he was a Naval Captain/Aviator
shot down over Hanoi and held as a Prisoners-of-War for 5 & 1/2 years.
Further he was awarded numerous Medals including the DFC, Silver & Bronze Stars.
Incidentally, McCain was a Viet Cong war prisoner, while Trump, one of his fiercest
critics, was a Vietnam draft dodger!!!
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Sexual misdeeds...Infantile behavior....Rash Temperment...Publicly lashes out at his fellow Republicans...Vindictive...Impulsive...Obscene Language...Attention-starved...
Whew!!! Thank Goodness the GOP avoided having all that in the Oval Office. :yowsa:
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[quote authority r=Absalom link=topic=419383.msg2335955#msg2335955 date=1606718127]
[/quote]
My father is a retired Command Sergeant Major. 31 years of service, Purple heart, multiple tours. Cried when had to retire from his beloved army. He STILL can’t believe a person who didn’t serve opened his mouth derisively about a POW (regardless of who it is) and wasn’t immediately disqualified for doing so.
Can you imagine if Obama had said similar about McCain in 2008? Ooh boy. lol
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One of my life's lessons taught by my mother, was if you can't say ANYTHING nice about someone, don't say anything at all.
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My father is a retired Command Sergeant Major. 31 years of service, Purple heart, multiple tours. Cried when had to retire from his beloved army. He STILL can’t believe a person who didn’t serve opened his mouth derisively about a POW (regardless of who it is) and wasn’t immediately disqualified for doing so.
Can you imagine if Obama had said similar about McCain in 2008? Ooh boy. lol
Truth remains truth no matter how hard it is for some people to swallow.
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McCain was a pawn of the media and he desperately wanted them to like him so he would parrot their talking points.
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Hmm..........McCain, Hero or Rat???
A suggestion about your planned research!
Skip the sexual gossip, hearsay, innuendo and rumor, as it's predictable
horse manure produced to garner attention from those that are gullible.
A core fact about John McCain is that he was a Naval Captain/Aviator
shot down over Hanoi and held as a Prisoners-of-War for 5 & 1/2 years.
Further he was awarded numerous Medals including the DFC, Silver & Bronze Stars.
Incidentally, McCain was a Viet Cong war prisoner, and Trump, one of his fiercest
critics, was a Vietnam draft dodger!!!
Your record of stating the irrelevant remains unblemished. I never gave two hoots about his Navy record because I wasn't in the Service, so I don't feel it's appropriate for me to comment on it either way.
No, I am more concerned about his political record, and he's been a treacherous tool since he was first elected to office. I moved into that Congressional District in 1980, so I've been a close observer of his actions for almost 40 years. Whenever he was counted upon in the Senate, he weaseled and voted with the Democrats, all the while badmouthing conservatives and destroying the political careers of any who would challenge him.
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John Sidney McCain III would likely have wound up selling used cars but for the fact that his father and grandfather were admirals and THAT is a core fact!
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My father is a retired Command Sergeant Major. 31 years of service, Purple heart, multiple tours. Cried when had to retire from his beloved army. He STILL can’t believe a person who didn’t serve opened his mouth derisively about a POW (regardless of who it is) and wasn’t immediately disqualified for doing so.
Can you imagine if Obama had said similar about McCain in 2008? Ooh boy. lol
Well McCain sent a courier fetch the Steele Dossier from the UK and drop it off at the FBI in 2016. So we can call it even.
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Well McCain sent a courier fetch the Steele Dossier from the UK and drop it off at the FBI in 2016. So we can call it even.
An incredibly stupid gesture because the FBI already had the phony dossier. Typical of McStain's robust treachery.
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An incredibly stupid gesture because the FBI already had the phony dossier. Typical of McStain's robust treachery.
He was one vindictive SOB.
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He was one vindictive SOB.
Yahbutttt! He was a "war hero" with an exemplary record, or so we're told. Pay no attention that a trainee who crashes multiple training jets usually gets washed out of flight school.
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Yahbutttt! He was a "war hero" with an exemplary record, or so we're told. Pay no attention that a trainee who crashes multiple training jets usually gets washed out of flight school.
The guy was a natural in DC though. It was just a few years after arriving he got tied up with the Keating Five corruption case.
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John Sidney McCain III would likely have wound up selling used cars but for the fact that his father and grandfather were admirals and THAT is a core fact!
McCain still would have wound up selling used cars @Bigun if he hadn't divorced his wife to marry an heiress and use her daddy's money to fund his first campaign.
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The guy was a natural in DC though. It was just a few years after arriving he got tied up with the Keating Five corruption case.
The Keating Five was four Democrats and one Republican...John McStain. One of the Rats was John Glenn, world famous Astronaut Hero. Another was AZ's other Senator, Mob-connected Rat Dennis DeCONcini.
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He was loved by the media because he would stab Republicans in the back on camera over and over again...
But when he went for the big ring the media burned him when it counted... He was the media's useful idiot and he never figured that out.
He was a bitter vile unprincipled man.
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That he refused an early release from his captors tells me all I need to know about him as a man. Politically, he did seem propped up by the media. I thought ultimately he just wasn't bright enough to live by his righteousness and was never my pick among republicans to be President.
He is gone now, what's done is done, but I like to think he was supremely patriotic, he wanted to do what was right, he tried to be dignified, and he had a good sense of humor. So I think of him as a hero in the end. Despite the god awful choice of that dummy Sarah Palin. Ayyyyy, how do you F up a VP pick that badly??
He also had one of my favorite quotes: "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country"
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFz_IhRUMAAJkIx.jpg)
(https://miro.medium.com/max/1046/1*HpEiIy6XK6lr_72bsG7VyQ.png)
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McCain was a pawn of the media and he desperately wanted them to like him so he would parrot their talking points.
I worked with a lobbying firm and we did a lot of business with McCain's Senate office (a lot!). My then boss (a retired military officer) had the hardest time writing a campaign check for McCain's 2008 run for POTUS. He wrestled for quite a while with the morality of helping a true psychopath become CIC --- ultimately splitting the baby by writing the check for a fraction of the anticipated amount.
He, and most active and retired military still interacting with McCain were unimpressed with McCain's hero status --- to say the least.
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Sexual misdeeds...Infantile behavior....Rash Temperment...Publicly lashes out at his fellow Republicans...Vindictive...Impulsive...Obscene Language...Attention-starved...
Whew!!! Thank Goodness the GOP avoided having all that in the Oval Office.
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Indeed they did; then Trump emerged.
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My father is a retired Command Sergeant Major. 31 years of service, Purple heart, multiple tours. Cried when had to retire from his beloved army. He STILL can’t believe a person who didn’t serve opened his mouth derisively about a POW (regardless of who it is) and wasn’t immediately disqualified for doing so. Can you imagine if Obama had said similar about McCain in 2008? Ooh boy. lol
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A salute to your Dad, a man of honor.
An anecdote I mention, only because it's ironic.
While serving w/the Big Red One, I was in Cambodia while Mc Cain was a POW.
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Your record of stating the irrelevant remains unblemished. I never gave two hoots about his Navy record because I wasn't in the Service, so I don't feel it's appropriate for me to comment on it either way.
No, I am more concerned about his political record, and he's been a treacherous tool since he was first elected to office. I moved into that Congressional District in 1980, so I've been a close observer of his actions for almost 40 years. Whenever he was counted upon in the Senate, he weaseled and voted with the Democrats, all the while badmouthing conservatives and destroying the political careers of any who would challenge him.
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It's an opinion forum and all are entitled, as you well know.
What's relevant/irrelevant is a matter of opinion.
Further, McCain's persona will always be a matter of opinion.
What's not a matter of opinion is his military/war record,
one of a Man of Honor, which no one in the Congress in
which he served could match.
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It's an opinion forum and all are entitled, as you well know.
What's relevant/irrelevant is a matter of opinion.
Further, McCain's persona will always be a matter of opinion.
What's not a matter of opinion is his military/war record,
one of a Man of Honor, which no one in the Congress in
which he served could match.
A man of honor my @$$! A man of honor would not have been known as "The Canary" among his fellow prisoners.
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A man of honor my @$$! A man of honor would not have been known as "The Canary" among his fellow prisoners.
I wouldn't know, I wasn't there.
But I have been around while the man was in public office, and watched anything but a man of honor.
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A man of honor my @$$! A man of honor would not have been known as "The Canary" among his fellow prisoners.
A false and disgusting claim from 2008. But its a great indicator of someone's humanity and intelligence when it is brought up. Offered freedom, he would not take it unless all his men went free with him. He refused to be part of Vietnamese propaganda. Over five years of pain and suffering and people that are not fit to shine his shoes spread filthy lies. And we are the party that veterans support?
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A false and disgusting claim from 2008. But its a great indicator of someone's humanity and intelligence when it is brought up. Offered freedom, he would not take it unless all his men went free with him. He refused to be part of Vietnamese propaganda. Over five years of pain and suffering and people that are not fit to shine his shoes spread filthy lies. And we are the party that veterans support?
According to the story concocted to keep from having to court-martial the man!
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It's an opinion forum and all are entitled, as you well know.
What's relevant/irrelevant is a matter of opinion.
Further, McCain's persona will always be a matter of opinion.
What's not a matter of opinion is his military/war record,
one of a Man of Honor, which no one in the Congress in
which he served could match.
Congratulations, your record remains unblemished!
:hands: :hands: :hands:
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Read this: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,372764.msg2321940.html#msg2321940 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,372764.msg2321940.html#msg2321940)
This statement from that article is false:
ohn McCain’s most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal. Well, not horrendous for him. The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was “wet-started,†an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies.
Investigators and survivors took the position that John McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men.
Unlike what was done on WW2 carriers, the Forrestal strike planes were lined around the aft deck edge. There was no plane behind McCain's A-4, and the F-4 from which the Zuni launched was not behind any plane. McCain was across the deck from the F-4, with his exhaust pointed out toward the ocean. However McCain started his engine, it did not cause the Zuni to launch, nor did McCain's engine ignite the spilling jet fuel from the A-$ the Zuni hit (another version of the stupid McCain-Caused-the-Forrestal-Fire Conspiracy Theory).
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John Sidney McCain III would likely have wound up selling used cars but for the fact that his father and grandfather were admirals and THAT is a core fact!
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An opinion is emphatically not a fact.
What is a fact about John McCain is that he was an Annapolis graduate, a Naval Aviator,
a recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Bronze and Silver Stars plus 24 others,
as well as a Prisoner of War.
Did his Admiral Father/Grandfather 'aid' his career? Does 1+1 equal 2? Truth is direct and simple. Despite his lineage, McCain earned every academic level & award achieved, A FACT!
The assertion that except for them, he would have "wound up selling used cars" is more than an opinion, it's a slander contradicted by his military career.
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An opinion is emphatically not a fact.
What is a fact about John McCain is that he was an Annapolis graduate, a Naval Aviator,
a recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Bronze and Silver Stars plus 24 others,
as well as a Prisoner of War.
Did his Admiral Father/Grandfather 'aid' his career? Does 1+1 equal 2? Truth is direct and simple. Despite his lineage, McCain earned every academic level & award achieved, A FACT!
The assertion that except for them, he would have "wound up selling used cars" is more than an opinion, it's a slander based on the facts of his military career.
I guess it's easier to de-scent a skunk when it's dead that it is to try it when it's alive. Blather on all you want about how a pilot can crash multiple trainer jets and still be the top of his class and the most brilliant Navy Pilot to have walked the Earth, but it's not relevant to the fact that McStain was one of the most treacherous Senators in history.
You hate Trump so much that you are willing to elevate that worm to the status of a god. What a sad creature.
I know, I'm being unfair because your grasp of history doesn't get more recent that the Time of Christ.
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An opinion is emphatically not a fact.
What is a fact about John McCain is that he was an Annapolis graduate, a Naval Aviator,
a recipient of the Distinguished Flying Cross, the Bronze and Silver Stars plus 24 others,
as well as a Prisoner of War.
Did his Admiral Father/Grandfather 'aid' his career? Does 1+1 equal 2? Truth is direct and simple. Despite his lineage, McCain earned every academic level & award achieved, A FACT!
The assertion that except for them, he would have "wound up selling used cars" is more than an opinion, it's a slander based on the facts of his military career.
And absent his lineage NONE of that would have happened! He would never have been accepted at Annapolis, never been in Naval Flight School much less the Cockpit of an F-4 over Hanoi without the direct influence of his father and grandfather despite any of your BS.
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A false and disgusting claim from 2008. But its a great indicator of someone's humanity and intelligence when it is brought up. Offered freedom, he would not take it unless all his men went free with him. He refused to be part of Vietnamese propaganda. Over five years of pain and suffering and people that are not fit to shine his shoes spread filthy lies. And we are the party that veterans support?
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Knox, notice how those 'torchbearers of truth' have no problem
resurrecting gossip, hearsay, innuendo and rumor, when they
ventilate their opinion about someone they detest.
For them, Facts left the room a very long time ago.
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This statement from that article is false:
Unlike what was done on WW2 carriers, the Forrestal strike planes were lined around the aft deck edge. There was no plane behind McCain's A-4, and the F-4 from which the Zuni launched was not behind any plane. McCain was across the deck from the F-4, with his exhaust pointed out toward the ocean. However McCain started his engine, it did not cause the Zuni to launch, nor did McCain's engine ignite the spilling jet fuel from the A-$ the Zuni hit (another version of the stupid McCain-Caused-the-Forrestal-Fire Conspiracy Theory).
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Pete, well done.
You should conduct classes for some, about McCain!
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A false and disgusting claim from 2008. But its a great indicator of someone's humanity and intelligence when it is brought up. Offered freedom, he would not take it unless all his men went free with him. He refused to be part of Vietnamese propaganda. Over five years of pain and suffering and people that are not fit to shine his shoes spread filthy lies. And we are the party that veterans support?
:amen:
It's disgusting. And anyway, why piss on a guy's grave after he's died?
I have no respect for anyone engaging in this stuff.
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You hate Trump so much that you are willing to elevate that worm to the status of a god.
What a sad creature. I know, I'm being unfair because your grasp of history doesn't get more recent that the Time of Christ.
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John McCain was a legitimate and recognized war hero; a Man of Honor.
Trump was a Vietnam draft dodger, fraud and hustler; a Narcissist w/o Honor or Integrity.
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Pete, well done.
You should conduct classes for some, about McCain!
I agree with Pete's analysis of the Forrestal incident, and I also think McStain was the most treacherous US Senator ever. You have yet to refute the fact I've been closely watching McStain in action for the 40 years I've lived in first his Congressional District, and then Senator.
I find your deliberate neglect of his record as a Politician personally insulting. What would you do, if you were a Moderator of this Forum?
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John McCain was a legitimate and recognized war hero; a Man of Honor.
Trump was a Vietnam draft dodger, fraud and hustler; a Narcissist w/o Honor or Integrity.
:amen:
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John McCain was a legitimate and recognized war hero; a Man of Honor.
Trump was a Vietnam draft dodger, fraud and hustler; a Narcissist w/o Honor or Integrity.
Irrelevant. You have yet to say one single word on McStain's behavior in elected office.
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Irrelevant. You have yet to say one single word on McStain's behavior in elected office.
No one in GOP has ever mastered the art of back stabbing more than McCain. Rather than talk about him, we should just forget about the jerk.
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A false and disgusting claim from 2008. But its a great indicator of someone's humanity and intelligence when it is brought up. Offered freedom, he would not take it unless all his men went free with him.
Sorry @Knox27 -- what you posted is simply not true .. well, if you believe the late Senator.
In Faith of My Fathers, McCain admits to giving up intelligence to the enemy. The section on this was very brief, with McCain writing he offered to tell one of his captors anything he wanted to know if they'd take him to the hospital. He wrote he had no intention of doing so and thought once he got medical care he would be strong enough to withstand what awaited him for not giving up the secrets. And then added, but "I was not". He ultimately did give up intelligence to his captors, something he "regretted" to "this very day".
I am not sure I can judge what someone does or does not do in those circumstances. But according to John McCain, it's not a false and disgusting claim. It's true.
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No one in GOP has ever mastered the art of back stabbing more than McCain. Rather than talk about him, we should just forget about the jerk.
I would, except Biteme wants to elevate members of the McStain clan to political operators in their own right.
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I would, except Biteme wants to elevate members of the McStain clan to political operators in their own right.
Pedo Joe is just using them under the cover of a ruse that he is including republicans as an olive branch of cooperation. Calling Cindy or Meagan McCain a conservative is beyond a joke, and only the most neophyte of a political observer can't see that.
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I would, except Biteme wants to elevate members of the McStain clan to political operators in their own right.
Megan as ambassador to Doughnutlandia?
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Megan as ambassador to Doughnutlandia?
And Cindy as Ambassador to UK, the most plum of all Diplomatic assignments.
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Pedo Joe is just using them under the cover of a ruse that he is including republicans as an olive branch of cooperation. Calling Cindy or Meagan McCain a conservative is beyond a joke, and only the most neophyte of a political observer can't see that.
I can identify who's an abject neophyte in this thread, but you don't need me to.
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And Cindy as Ambassador to UK, the most plum of all Diplomatic assignments.
Yep, selling her endorsement got her the goodies. If she had done it on a street corner, we'd called it something else.
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Regardless of what anyone on the internet thinks, the truth will forever remain the truth!
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Regardless of what anyone on the internet thinks, the truth will forever remain the truth!
That is correct. :amen:
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----------------------
Pete, well done.
You should conduct classes for some, about McCain!
I agree with Pete's analysis of the Forrestal incident, and I also think McStain was the most treacherous US Senator ever. You have yet to refute the fact I've been closely watching McStain in action for the 40 years I've lived in first his Congressional District, and then Senator.
...
Pointing out that McCain could not have caused the Forrestal fire is just that and nothing more. The Zuni rocket had a known electrical system problem, and the bomb(s) that killed so many of the Forrestal's men should have been scrapped rather than used (a decision made in DC against the request of the captain of the Forrestal). They were know to have been improperly stored and showing signs of serious deterioration, the consequence of which was premature detonation early in the Forrestal fire. None of this is difficult to learn.
But the Forrestal fire happened in 1967 and has zero to do with McCain the politician. He got onto my "radar screen" in 2000 during the primary campaign when he started crapping on conservatives who didn't support him. McCain decayed into a bitter crap-weasel back-stabber. Or maybe what I saw was a continuation of what he had been before in Arizona.
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Pointing out that McCain could not have caused the Forrestal fire is just that and nothing more. The Zuni rocket had a known electrical system problem, and the bomb(s) that killed so many of the Forrestal's men should have been scrapped rather than used (a decision made in DC against the request of the captain of the Forrestal). They were know to have been improperly stored and showing signs of serious deterioration, the consequence of which was premature detonation early in the Forrestal fire. None of this is difficult to learn.
But the Forrestal fire happened in 1967 and has zero to do with McCain the politician. He got onto my "radar screen" in 2000 during the primary campaign when he started crapping on conservatives who didn't support him. McCain decayed into a bitter crap-weasel back-stabber. Or maybe what I saw was a continuation of what he had been before in Arizona.
And I knew about McStain's political treachery for the 20 years before that. To sit back and declare McStain the greatest Navy Pilot to have ever existed is both false and irrelevant.
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... To sit back and declare McStain the greatest Navy Pilot to have ever existed is both false and irrelevant.
Butch O'Hare and Jimmy Flatley quickly come to mind. Dick Best and Wade McClusky .....
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-------------------------------------------------
John McCain was a legitimate and recognized war hero; a Man of Honor.
Trump was a Vietnam draft dodger, fraud and hustler; a Narcissist w/o Honor or Integrity.
That's BS. A war hero wouldn't have made propaganda tapes for his commie captors. I've heard those tapes that McStain made. Have you?
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Butch O'Hare and Jimmy Flatley quickly come to mind. Dick Best and Wade McClusky .....
It's amazing how someone can graduate at almost the bottom of his Academy class can rise to the status of "Greatest pilot who ever walked the planet."
McCain graduated from the Naval Academy in June 1958; he was fifth from the bottom in class rank, 894th out of 899.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_life_and_military_career_of_John_McCain#Naval_Academy
Making such a claim is a hallmark of one educated far, far beyond the grasp of his intelligence.
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And I knew about McStain's political treachery for the 20 years before that. To sit back and declare McStain the greatest Navy Pilot to have ever existed is both false and irrelevant.
Correct, Cyber. 'NO NAME' is a traitor. His goofing around on a ship, cost the lives of about 100+ service men. His dad and grandfather were ADMIRALS and covered for him. Then he crashed two planes. That cost tax payers a lot. Men who had to deal with him in Vietnam, loathe him. RAT!
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Could not find this quote. I have copy of POTUS TRUMP S.S. paper. A draft dodger went to Canada. He did not. His number was #580. For 3 years he was eligible for the draft. Twice he was A-1, once he was Y-1. Then he has student deferments.
Bill Clinton, JOE BIDEN, Bernie Sanders, Mike Bloomberg...obama, did NOT SERVE EITHER. Do they have zero integrity and are they narcissists? Why do people, keep repeating the FALSE INFORMATION?
Quote from: Absalom on Today at 01:55:34 PM
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John McCain was a legitimate and recognized war hero; a Man of Honor.
Trump was a Vietnam draft dodger, fraud and hustler; a Narcissist w/o Honor or Integrity.
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----------------------------------------------------------
You have yet to refute the fact I've been closely watching McStain in action for the 40 years I've lived in first his Congressional District, and then Senator.
I find your deliberate neglect of his record as a Politician personally insulting. What would you do, if you were a Moderator of this Forum?
--------------------------
I asserted facts about McCain's Naval career & War record culled from the Navy Dept. and Congressional Records; as such have nothing to prove. If you disagree, take it up w/them.
You asserted a negative opinion of McCain, based on your experience/perception of him,
to which you're certainly entitled.
For me, McCain's War Record defines his character and certainly not any Political record,
in which I have no interest for a simple reason.
Hardly an excuse, yet Politicians are predictably less than honorable because of the
circumstances and situations they allow themselves to become entangled with.
As for your problem, suggest you reflect on the clear distinction between a fact and an opinion.
Nothing further.
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Could not find this quote. I have copy of POTUS TRUMP S.S. paper. A draft dodger went to Canada. He did not. His number was #580. For 3 years he was eligible for the draft. Twice he was A-1, once he was Y-1. Then he has student deferments.
Bill Clinton, JOE BIDEN, Bernie Sanders, Mike Bloomberg...obama, did NOT SERVE EITHER. Do they have zero integrity and are they narcissists? Why do people, keep repeating the FALSE INFORMATION?
Quote from: Absalom on Today at 01:55:34 PM
-------------------------------------------------
John McCain was a legitimate and recognized war hero; a Man of Honor.
Trump was a Vietnam draft dodger, fraud and hustler; a Narcissist w/o Honor or Integrity.
---------------------------
A Podiatrist Tennant of Trump's old man diagnosed the Donald w/Bone spurs rendering
him unfit for military service; in exchange for a revised and inexpensive office lease.
The Podiatrist's Daughter who was his Office Manager, affirmed this in testimony before a
Grand Jury and the NY County District Attorney some 50 years ago.
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---------------------------
A Podiatrist Tennant of Trump's old man diagnosed the Donald w/Bone spurs rendering
him unfit for military service; in exchange for a revised and inexpensive office lease.
The Podiatrist's Daughter and his Office Manager, affirmed this in testimony before a
Grand Jury and the NY County District Attorney some 50 years ago.
Is there a term for when argument winning facts are presented but you are fully aware they will be dismissed and it leaves you feeling both exasperated and blithely amused?
The germans must have word for that...
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--------------------------
I asserted facts about McCain's Naval career & War record culled from the Navy Dept.
and Congressional Records and have nothing to prove. If you disagree, take it up w/them.
You asserted a negative opinion of McCain, based on your experience/perception of him,
to which you're certainly entitled.
For me, McCain's War Record defines his character and certainly not any Political record,
in which I have no interest for a simple reason.
Hardly an excuse, yet Politicians are predictably less than honorable because of the
circumstances and situations they allow themselves to become entangled with.
As for your problem, suggest you reflect on the clear distinction between a fact and an opinion.
Nothing further.
Applicable quote from Marion Barry, former Mayor of DeeCee: "If you take out all the murders, Washington DC has a very low crime rate."
If I neglect the treachery while holding political office for over 35 years, McStain was a fine soldier based on a few years at the Hanoi Hilton.
@Absalom, since you've made it a point to ignore his political career, you are probably posting your hagiography on the wrong Forum.
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Applicable quote from Marion Barry, former Mayor of DeeCee: "If you take out all the murders, Washington DC has a very low crime rate."
If I neglect the treachery while holding political office for over 35 years, McStain was a fine soldier based on a few years at the Hanoi Hilton.
@Absalom, since you've made it a point to ignore his political career, you are probably posting your hagiography on the wrong Forum.
"a few years at the Hanoi Hilton" is the 5.5 years of torture and captivity that left him disabled, right?
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"a few years at the Hanoi Hilton" is the 5.5 years of torture and captivity that left him disabled, right?
Sorry, the McCain hagiography department is two Forums to the left.
(What about the 35+ years of torturing the citizens of a State?)
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Sorry, the McCain hagiography department is two Forums to the left.
(What about the 35+ years of torturing the citizens of a State?)
Whatever McCain was in 1967 - 52 years before he died - what I saw in the last 19 years of his life was 19 years of what he had made himself, a consistently bitter envious crap-weaseling back-stabber.
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Whatever McCain was in 1967 - 52 years before he died - what I saw in the last 19 years of his life was 19 years of what he had made himself, a consistently bitter envious crap-weaseling back-stabber.
That sizes it up very well. Yet, we're supposed to cut him a DeeCee size piece of slack because he's a "war hero." The hagiography I am seeing on this thread is appalling.
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That sizes it up very well. Yet, we're supposed to cut him a DeeCee size piece of slack because he's a "war hero." The hagiography I am seeing on this thread is appalling.
And calling him a war hero is a gross affront to those who actually ARE war heroes!
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And calling him a war hero is a gross affront to those who actually ARE war heroes!
It's an affront to the good men who had their testicles and other body parts blown off in Nam.
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He's gone and should be forgotten.
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That sizes it up very well. Yet, we're supposed to cut him a DeeCee size piece of slack because he's a "war hero." The hagiography I am seeing on this thread is appalling.
he had the right enemies. That’s all his fans here care about.
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he had the right enemies. That’s all his fans here care about.
One of the hagiographers just showed up on the Moderators' radar screen....
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And calling him a war hero is a gross affront to those who actually ARE war heroes!
--------------------------------------
So perhaps the Military awards the DCF, Silver Star and Bronze Star to time servers???
Isn't it way past time you ceased embarrassing yourself???
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Isn't it way past time you ceased embarrassing yourself???
I assume you are looking in the mirror when you ask that.
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So perhaps the Military awards the DCF, Silver Star and Bronze Star to time servers???
Isn't it way past time you ceased embarrassing yourself???
John Kerry received a silver star, a bronze star and (count em) three Purple Hearts and did it in only 4 months!
McCain was a piker.
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Is there a term for when argument winning facts are presented but you are fully aware they will be dismissed and it leaves you feeling both exasperated and blithely amused?
The Germans must have word for that...
------------------------------
Indeed, when one insists in one's mind & soul that one's opinion trumps all factual
evidence, he/she is quite easily easily seduced by the siren song of the demagogue.
The past century has seen this drama play out in countless nations, most notably,
China, Germany, Italy and Russia; and the world is infinitely worse off for this.
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--------------------------------------
So perhaps the Military awards the DCF, Silver Star and Bronze Star to time servers???
Isn't it way past time you ceased embarrassing yourself???
Yes! If they have the right geneology and thus contacts. The U.S. Navy awarded John F'n Kerry three metals he put himself in for!
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------------------------------
Indeed, when one insists in one's mind & soul that one's opinion trumps all factual
evidence, he/she is quite easily easily seduced by the siren song of the demagogue.
The past century has seen this drama play out in countless nations, most notably,
China, Germany, Italy and Russia; and the world is infinitely worse off for this.
... says you, without a trace of irony.
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I did some searching on McCain's temper.
The following were examples of what some have written:
But it is not just McCain's politics that are disturbing. It is his personality, too. For McCain has a secret reputation as a man with a ferocious, unpredictable temper. He is a man who has a knack for pursuing vendettas against those he thinks have slighted him, even if they are lowly aides.
The list of worrying incidents is long. In 1995 he ended up almost physically scuffling with aged Senator Strom Thurmond on the Senate floor. And, according to some accounts, in 2006 he had a fight with Arizona congressman Rick Renzi, throwing blows in a scrap whose details have only recently been detailed in Schecter's book. Schecter unearthed another unpleasant incident from 1992 in which McCain, tired after a long day's campaign, reacted badly to his wife Cindy teasing him about his baldness. 'At least I don't plaster on the make-up like a trollop, you bleep,' McCain snapped in front of eyewitnesses. Schecter says he has three sources for the story. McCain's campaign have denied it.
Such public outbursts, and many other private ones, have concerned people even in his own party. Former New Hampshire Republican Senator Robert Smith publicly voiced his concerns, once saying McCain's temper ' ... would place this country at risk in international affairs, and the world perhaps in danger'. That sentiment was echoed by Mississippi Republican Senator Thad Cochran, who told a Boston newspaper: 'The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me.'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/22/johnmccain.uselections2008 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/22/johnmccain.uselections2008)
In winter 2007, John McCain’s presidential bid was bleeding for money. The campaign had fired senior staff. And the candidate had only 54% of support from Republicans in his home state of Arizona ahead of the primaries. But it was a speech Vladimir Putin gave at the Munich Security Conference—where the Russian president lambasted the United States for cultivating a world of “instability and dangerâ€â€”that set the senator’s teeth on edge.
“I remember John McCain becoming furiously angry with this speech and wanting to do an immediate press conference to respond to it,†McCain’s former foreign policy advisor Niall Ferguson, a British historian, told Observer. “That’s when I saw the impulse McCain, ‘Fighting John,’ who had to be talked out of this vehement rejoinder of Putin.â€
“Fighting John†was a side of McCain that commanded the respect of his fellow soldiers, and later defined his career as a politician. Former CIA Director R. James Woolsey, who also advised the senator’s 2008 bid for the presidency, recalled his interviews with half a dozen Naval officers who had been detained with McCain at Hao Lo Prison—the infamous Vietnamese torture site nicknamed ‘Hanoi Hilton’ by American soldiers.
“They all said, pretty much this: ‘John and I have always gotten along most of the time, but we have on occasion gotten in fights…Last time we played poker, we nearly brained each other, but I love him like a brother and would follow him anywhere,'†Woolsey told Observer. “And that’s John McCain.â€
https://observer.com/2018/08/how-john-mccains-temper-drove-him-from-hanoi-hilton-to-the-senate/ (https://observer.com/2018/08/how-john-mccains-temper-drove-him-from-hanoi-hilton-to-the-senate/)
About a year later, McCain reportedly erupted again, this time at a meeting with Arizona's then-Gov. Evan Mecham, who was about to be impeached after being indicted on felony charges.
Karen Johnson, then Mecham's secretary and now an Arizona state senator, recalled how McCain told Mecham that he was "causing the party a lot of problems" and was an embarrassment to the party.
"Sen. McCain got very angry," Johnson recalled, "and I said, 'Why are you talking to the governor like this? You're causing problems yourself. You're an embarrassment.' "
Johnson would go on to work at three different jobs over the next five years, and she said that each time, McCain would contact her boss and try to get her removed.
The McCain campaign didn't respond to repeated requests for comment.
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24498646.html (https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24498646.html)
And article on his temper…..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991031/aponline183823_000.htm (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991031/aponline183823_000.htm)
John McCain’s Democratic colleagues in the Senate are zeroing in on his oft-discussed temper, questioning whether the presumptive Republican presidential nominee is too volatile to be commander in chief.
In separate interviews with Politico on Tuesday, Senate Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) said they have seen McCain “explode.â€
“He has a huge anger problem,†Boxer said. “And he never hid that. ... I have seen it happen on the Senate floor many, many times. … He has exploded at me a couple times.â€
Boxer said McCain has always apologized after the dust-ups. Nonetheless, she insinuated that McCain’s temperament makes him unfit for the White House.
“It’s all well and good to apologize,†Boxer added, “but if you are in charge of that black box, I worry about that.â€
Durbin noted McCain’s temper is “well documented,†saying that he had been on the receiving end of it for what he considered “minor things.â€
“I was in a confrontation with him … and he was quick to explode,†said Durbin. “It simmered for a long time.â€
https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/democrats-take-aim-at-mccains-temper-012846 (https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/democrats-take-aim-at-mccains-temper-012846)
In January, Thad Cochran, a Republican senator for Mississippi, said the thought of Mr McCain as president sent a “cold chill down my spineâ€, describing him as “hotheaded†and “erraticâ€. James Dobson, the influential evangelical leader, said he could not support Mr McCain, in part because he “has a legendary temper and often uses foul and obscene languageâ€.
On Capitol Hill, his outbursts are part of congressional folklore. One of the most recent came last year when, according to witnesses, he shouted, "bleep you!†at John Cornyn, a Republican senator for Texas, during a heated exchange over immigration reform.
A similar tirade in 1999 cost him the support of Pete Domenici, a New Mexico senator, in the 2000 presidential election. “I decided I didn’t want this guy anywhere near a trigger,†said Mr Domenici.
https://www.ft.com/content/f28123a8-0725-11dd-b41e-0000779fd2ac (https://www.ft.com/content/f28123a8-0725-11dd-b41e-0000779fd2ac)
The senator’s temper and temperament remain in question. His biographer quotes him: “At the smallest provocation I would go off into a mad frenzy, and then suddenly crash to the floor unconscious.†Has he moderated over time? Apparently. Somewhat. Senators who have had John McCain scream hyphenated obscenities at them nose-to-nose include Rick Santorum, Richard Shelby, Thad Cochran, and James Inhofe. Most colleagues decline comment. The man has been called psychologically unstable.
All true. When congress voted on removing, communist mandated obama care, even though he was against it, he VOTED, NO, on having it removed. Vendetta against POTUS TRUMP. McStain, screwed over most Americans with that vote. It was his single vote that did that. He was no war hero. Prk.
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I assume you are looking in the mirror when you ask that.
:thumbsup:
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A false and disgusting claim from 2008. But its a great indicator of someone's humanity and intelligence when it is brought up. Offered freedom, he would not take it unless all his men went free with him. He refused to be part of Vietnamese propaganda. Over five years of pain and suffering and people that are not fit to shine his shoes spread filthy lies. And we are the party that veterans support?
You are wrong. His admiral dad and admiral grandfather, got him out of prison. The song bird, told on all his squad. Then those 100+ soldiers he killed on a boat, by goofing around. They got him out of that too. HE IS A DISGRACE. Men who served with him, call him NO NAME. VIETNAM VETERANS DESPISE THAT POS. He was a despicable person. Lindsey Graham's butt buddy. McStain also wanted a sleep over with Alquade muslims. That is documented. Wonder why?
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Let me say one thing here about honor... It does not matter what one DID. What matters is what one DOES. The honor bound up in an husband and a father can be laid low, and made of no account in a single moment of infidelity... And thereafter is a long, lonesome road to EARN back what was thrown away...
The subject of this thread, the honor of a 'war hero' is the same damn thing. That only counts if one continues in that honor. If one does not, it besmirches not only ones self, but the good names of every other war hero that continued to be honorable.
'nuff said.
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---------------------------
A Podiatrist Tennant of Trump's old man diagnosed the Donald w/Bone spurs rendering
him unfit for military service; in exchange for a revised and inexpensive office lease.
The Podiatrist's Daughter who was his Office Manager, affirmed this in testimony before a
Grand Jury and the NY County District Attorney some 50 years ago.
Wrong. That is another MEDIA lie about POTUS. Yes, he has bone spurs. (I do too, very painful, no marching) Before that student deferments. His number was #580, I once read draft ended in 300 numbers. You have irrational TRUMP ENVY.
Any thing to say about your wrong post, LIE, he was 'draft dodger'? AND, what about JOE BIDEN... BILL CLINTON....Bernie Sanders, MIKE BLOOMBERG, did not serve either? JOE BIDEN IS A DRAFT DODGER?
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Let me say one thing here about honor... It does not matter what one DID. What matters is what one DOES. The honor bound up in an husband and a father can be laid low, and made of no account in a single moment of infidelity... And thereafter is a long, lonesome road to EARN back what was thrown away...
The subject of this thread, the honor of a 'war hero' is the same damn thing. That only counts if one continues in that honor. If one does not, it besmirches not only ones self, but the good names of every other war hero that continued to be honorable.
'nuff said.
"One 'Aw shit!' cancels out one hundred 'Atta boys!'"
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Let me say one thing here about honor... It does not matter what one DID. What matters is what one DOES. The honor bound up in an husband and a father can be laid low, and made of no account in a single moment of infidelity... And thereafter is a long, lonesome road to EARN back what was thrown away...
The subject of this thread, the honor of a 'war hero' is the same damn thing. That only counts if one continues in that honor. If one does not, it besmirches not only ones self, but the good names of every other war hero that continued to be honorable.
'nuff said.
Cant argue with any of that.
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--------------------------------------
So perhaps the Military awards the DCF, Silver Star and Bronze Star to time servers???
And IMO is fully negated by the damage he did to this country as the ultimate political back stabber, and criminal sell out.
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And IMO is fully negated by the damage he did to this country as the ultimate political back stabber, and criminal sell out.
:thumbsup:
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Wrong. That is another MEDIA lie about POTUS. Yes, he has bone spurs. (I do too, very painful, no marching) Before that student deferments. His number was #580, I once read draft ended in 300 numbers. You have irrational TRUMP ENVY.
Any thing to say about your wrong post, LIE, he was 'draft dodger'? AND, what about JOE BIDEN... BILL CLINTON....Bernie Sanders, MIKE BLOOMBERG, did not serve either? JOE BIDEN IS A DRAFT DODGER?
-------------------------------------
Trump was an athlete in 8 years of High School and College competing in Baseball, Basketball, Lacrosse and Soccer; an impossibility for anyone w/bone spurs. IMPOSSIBILITY!
The Bone Spurs diagnosis was a scam that let Trump dodge the draft and Vietnam. Reality!
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Trump was an athlete in 8 years of High School and College competing in Baseball, Basketball, Lacrosse and Soccer; an impossibility for anyone w/bone spurs. IMPOSSIBILITY!
The Bone Spurs diagnosis was a scam that let Trump dodge the draft and Vietnam. Reality!
"One aspect of the conflict, by the way, that I will never ever countenance is that we drafted the lowest income level of America, and the highest income level found a doctor that would say that they had a bone spur. That is wrong. That is wrong. If we’re going to ask every American to serve, every American should serve." John McCain
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"One aspect of the conflict, by the way, that I will never ever countenance is that we drafted the lowest income level of America, and the highest income level found a doctor that would say that they had a bone spur. That is wrong. That is wrong. If we’re going to ask every American to serve, every American should serve." John McCain
I always knew that on top of his truckloads of faults, McStain was also an elitist. Thanks for finding that damning quote from the worm. A perfect example of what not to be.
888high58888
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... His admiral dad and admiral grandfather, got him out of prison. ... Then those 100+ soldiers he killed on a boat, by goofing around. They got him out of that too. ...
Admiral John S. McCain Sr., the grandfather, died in 1945, when McCain III was 11 years old. So he could not have "got him out of prison". And he could not "got him out of that too". This is news to you, @LegalAmerican?
As I've posted on TBR multiple times, in detail, John S. McCain III could not possibly have caused the Forrestal fire. For the simple reason that all the strike planes were positioned along the Forrestal's aft and quarter deck edges with their exhausts pointed out to sea. This disproves:
* The McCain-caused-the-Zuni-to-launch version of this stupid conspiracy theory;
* It disproves the McCain-ignited-the-spilled-jet-fuel version of this stupid conspiracy theory;
* It disproves any other version of this stupid conspiracy theory, because there is no way McCain's exhaust could affect any other plane or equipment on the USS Forrestal; McCain had no plane behind him and his exhaust blew out to sea.
I have less than zero love for the late Sen. McCain, but the truth is the truth even when you might dislike it. McCain could not have caused the Forrestal fire.
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I always knew that on top of his truckloads of faults, McStain was also an elitist. Thanks for finding that damning quote from the worm. A perfect example of what not to be.
888high58888
He literally says he cannot support that happened. It was true. He didn't like it. What point are you seeing here?
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He literally says he cannot support that happened. It was true. He didn't like it. What point are you seeing here?
My point is mistaken. That said, he was very much an elitist, a Patrician. He was still a worm. I guess it's the sort of thing one would have to be a long-time Arizonan to appreciate him properly, so YMMV.
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I can see that the Arizonians built up a "McCain Revulsion", much stronger than the rest of us. Just ponder if the Buddhists have it right. Then McCain will live thru the afterlife with Bad Karma and will never achieve True Enlightenment. Just leave him six foot under. I know that if you don't know history then history will repeat itself. I just can't see going thru all of this all over again.
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I can see that the Arizonians built up a "McCain Revulsion", much stronger than the rest of us. Just ponder if the Buddhists have it right. Then McCain will live thru the afterlife with Bad Karma and will never achieve True Enlightenment. Just leave him six foot under. I know that if you don't know history then history will repeat itself. I just can't see going thru all of this all over again.
In 49 states, people just heard a traitor screaming. In AZ, we saw him screaming in our faces, complete with the flying spittle.
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In 49 states, people just heard a traitor screaming. In AZ, we saw him screaming in our faces, complete with the flying spittle.
It wasn't confined to just AZ. I was in the next state over and there was no Republican that was a bigger back stabber to conservatives than McCain. Romney is working on it.
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Where's that "He's Dead Jim" image when you need it?
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It wasn't confined to just AZ. I was in the next state over and there was no Republican that was a bigger back stabber to conservatives than McCain. Romney is working on it.
Welcome to AZ, BTW. It's a pity you moved to the Valley of the Sun after I left it. LD 25, right?
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Where's that "He's Dead Jim" image when you need it?
He's dead, but his hatred of conservatives lives on in his putrid widow and dotter.
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Welcome to AZ, BTW. It's a pity you moved to the Valley of the Sun after I left it. LD 25, right?
Yes, LD 25. The very north east corner.
Nearly all my neighbors are hard core conservative so that hasn't been an issue.
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He's dead, but his hatred of conservatives lives on in his putrid widow and dotter.
Say the vote count stands. Do you think these wenches did enough damage to Trump's AZ chances for winning the state?
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Say the vote count stands. Do you think these wenches did enough damage to Trump's AZ chances for winning the state?
Only if they were involved in the voting fraud. Their endorsements of Biteme didn't change any votes.
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Say the vote count stands. Do you think these wenches did enough damage to Trump's AZ chances for winning the state?
I can only speak for myself, but why would his widow have much influence at all? The battle lines were drawn before John died.
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I can only speak for myself, but why would his widow have much influence at all? The battle lines were drawn before John died.
I know little about AZ political dynmaics, but have seen enough sheeple grazing the past 6 months to fill a prairie. You never know.
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Only if they were involved in the voting fraud. Their endorsements of Biteme didn't change any votes.
(https://images.parler.com/Z5PUWTur6XhQmAcUBkTooQdQU7s6pF2B)
Ducey Silences Call From White House As He Was Certifying Arizona Election (https://knst.iheart.com/featured/garret-lewis/content/2020-12-01-ducey-silences-call-from-white-house-as-he-was-certifying-arizona-election/)
Just for you @Cyber Liberty
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(https://images.parler.com/Z5PUWTur6XhQmAcUBkTooQdQU7s6pF2B)
Ducey Silences Call From White House As He Was Certifying Arizona Election (https://knst.iheart.com/featured/garret-lewis/content/2020-12-01-ducey-silences-call-from-white-house-as-he-was-certifying-arizona-election/)
Just for you @Cyber Liberty
LOL. I saw the story. In his taped meeting with the crooked SoS Hobbs, his cell phone rang with "Hail to the Chief." In a story several months ago, Ducey the Duplicitous said he set Trump's ringtone to that so "he would not miss a call from the President."
I'd say that worked!
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I know little about AZ political dynmaics, but have seen enough sheeple grazing the past 6 months to fill a prairie. You never know.
We have our share....
****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** **** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep****
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An incredibly stupid gesture because the FBI already had the phony dossier. Typical of McStain's robust treachery.
@Cyber Liberty
Steele himself gave the dossier to a certain FBI official he had worked with before, and gave a McCain aide a copy.
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Yahbutttt! He was a "war hero" with an exemplary record, or so we're told. Pay no attention that a trainee who crashes multiple training jets usually gets washed out of flight school.
@Cyber Liberty
McCain almost never followed the rules. He was near the bottom of his Naval class when he graduated. Yes, he crashed planes. Read below he almost died when his plane was on deck, and caught on fire by spilled fuel.
When shot down, one of his shoulders was mostly destroyed and his captors left it that way plus tortured him other ways. When the captors found out his father was an Admiral, they offered to let his go and he would not go unless the men went with him, so he stayed in that situation longer. For the rest of his life, he could not raise either arm past his shoulders, so could only wear shirts with buttons, no pull over shirts. That captivity changed his life forever.
"McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958 and received a commission in the United States Navy. He became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, McCain almost died in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. While on a bombing mission during Operation Rolling Thunder over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. McCain was a prisoner of war until 1973. He experienced episodes of torture and refused an out-of-sequence early release. During the war, McCain sustained wounds that left him with lifelong physical disabilities. He retired from the Navy as a captain in 1981 and moved to Arizona, where he entered politics."
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I always knew that on top of his truckloads of faults, McStain was also an elitist. Thanks for finding that damning quote from the worm. A perfect example of what not to be.
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The frenzied & hysterical loathing of Mc Cain needs attention.
A poster quotes McCain speaking truth about the corruption of
class influence /power; then he is labeled an elitist and a worm.
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@Cyber Liberty
McCain almost never followed the rules. He was near the bottom of his Naval class when he graduated. Yes, he crashed planes. Read below he almost died when his plane was on deck, and caught on fire by spilled fuel.
...
@Victoria33 @Absalom
You all love to gripe on Trump because of his mannerisms, both in speaking and on Twitter. I would like to hit "Pause" for a moment and point something out about McCain vs Trump: Pay attention at whom the barbs are directed by both of these two fellows. Trump likes to call out the Media and Politicians who attacked him first. McCain, on the other hand, mostly bullied "little people," IE regular citizens who can't fight back because they lack media megaphones. That is an important distinction I draw.
Just like when I Moderate this Forum, I'm generally OK with chastising professional politicians and journalists, but I draw the line when regular citizens, like most of us, get bullied by cyberpunks. I make a distinction between people who make political attacks on politicians, and those who make personal attacks on Briefers.
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The frenzied & hysterical loathing of Mc Cain needs attention.
A poster quotes McCain speaking truth about the corruption of
class influence /power; then he is labeled an elitist and a worm.
See the post above this one where I pinged you. McCain WAS an elitist and a worm, to his AZ constituents.
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I am sorry, but his escapades are pretty much known.
He freely admits he cheated on his first wife (the one who was destroyed in a car accident, but survived.....the one he left to marry the next ambassador to the U.K. ....the one who turned her back on the GOP and supported kelly.
McCain's temper is famous.
So, please let's not play this game.
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@Cyber Liberty
McCain almost never followed the rules. He was near the bottom of his Naval class when he graduated. Yes, he crashed planes. Read below he almost died when his plane was on deck, and caught on fire by spilled fuel.
When shot down, one of his shoulders was mostly destroyed and his captors left it that way plus tortured him other ways. When the captors found out his father was an Admiral, they offered to let his go and he would not go unless the men went with him, so he stayed in that situation longer. For the rest of his life, he could not raise either arm past his shoulders, so could only wear shirts with buttons, no pull over shirts. That captivity changed his life forever.
"McCain graduated from the United States Naval Academy in 1958 and received a commission in the United States Navy. He became a naval aviator and flew ground-attack aircraft from aircraft carriers. During the Vietnam War, McCain almost died in the 1967 USS Forrestal fire. While on a bombing mission during Operation Rolling Thunder over Hanoi in October 1967, he was shot down, seriously injured, and captured by the North Vietnamese. McCain was a prisoner of war until 1973. He experienced episodes of torture and refused an out-of-sequence early release. During the war, McCain sustained wounds that left him with lifelong physical disabilities. He retired from the Navy as a captain in 1981 and moved to Arizona, where he entered politics."
We know all that.
That's great.
He also had several highly publicized high decible encounters with people.
And as was quoted in above....went out of his way to destroy those he disagree with.
I am looking for more information on that.
You can tout him all you want, he was an airman. He never would have been if not for his father.
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The frenzied & hysterical loathing of Mc Cain needs attention.
A poster quotes McCain speaking truth about the corruption of
class influence /power; then he is labeled an elitist and a worm.
Please let us know what constitutes frenzied and hysterical loathing.
All I've done is post what has been written about him.
Others are repeating the same.
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I am sorry, but his escapades are pretty much known.
He freely admits he cheated on his first wife (the one who was destroyed in a car accident, but survived.....the one he left to marry the next ambassador to the U.K. ....the one who turned her back on the GOP and supported kelly.
McCain's temper is famous.
So, please let's not play this game.
McCain just loved to bitch out and belittle ordinary citizens because he knew they could not fight back. He was, simply, a bully in the most basic definition, picking only on people he knew he could beat up.
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McCain would have never been shot down if it wasn't for his daddy. He would have been drummed out long before that flight.
McCain’s mishaps in the cockpit
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-oct-06-na-aviator6-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-oct-06-na-aviator6-story.html)
Corpus Christi, Texas, March 12, 1960
McCain was practicing landings in his AD-6 Skyraider over Corpus Christi Bay when he lost several hundred feet of altitude “without realizing it†and struck the water, according to the Naval Aviation Safety Center accident report on file at the Naval Historical Center in Washington.
Southern Spain, around December 1961
McCain was on a training mission when he flew low and ran into electrical wires. He brought his crippled Skyraider back to the Intrepid, dragging 10 feet of wire, sailors and aviators recalled.
In his 1999 autobiography, “Faith of My Fathers,†McCain briefly recounts the incident, calling it the result of “daredevil clowning†and “flying too low.†McCain did not elaborate on what happened, and The Times could find no military records of the accident.
Cape Charles, Va., Nov. 28, 1965
Over the Eastern Shore of Virginia, McCain descended below 7,000 feet on a landing approach in a T-2 trainer jet, according to accident records. He said he heard an explosion in his engine and lost power. He said he tried unsuccessfully to restart the engine.
He spotted a local drag strip and considered trying to glide to a landing there but finally had to eject at 1,000 feet. The plane crashed in the woods. McCain escaped injury and was picked up by a farmer.
In a report dated Jan. 18, 1966, the Naval Aviation Safety Center said it could not determine the cause of the accident or corroborate McCain’s account of an explosion in the engine. A close examination of the engine found “no discrepancies which would have caused or contributed to engine failure or malfunction.â€
The report found that McCain, then assigned to squadron VT-7 in Meridian, Miss., had made several errors: He failed to switch the plane’s power system to battery backup, which “seriously jeopardized his survival chances.†His idea of landing on the drag strip was “viewed with concern and is indicative of questionable emergency procedure.â€
The report added, “It may be indeed fortunate that the pilot was not in a position to attempt such a landing.â€
McCain also ejected too late and too low, was not wearing proper flight equipment and positioned his body improperly before ejecting, the report said.
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Ace McCain downed five planes.
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McCain’s mishaps in the cockpit
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-oct-06-na-aviator6-story.html (https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2008-oct-06-na-aviator6-story.html)
Corpus Christi, Texas, March 12, 1960
McCain was practicing landings in his AD-6 Skyraider over Corpus Christi Bay when he lost several hundred feet of altitude “without realizing it†and struck the water, according to the Naval Aviation Safety Center accident report on file at the Naval Historical Center in Washington.
Southern Spain, around December 1961
McCain was on a training mission when he flew low and ran into electrical wires. He brought his crippled Skyraider back to the Intrepid, dragging 10 feet of wire, sailors and aviators recalled.
In his 1999 autobiography, “Faith of My Fathers,†McCain briefly recounts the incident, calling it the result of “daredevil clowning†and “flying too low.†McCain did not elaborate on what happened, and The Times could find no military records of the accident.
Cape Charles, Va., Nov. 28, 1965
Over the Eastern Shore of Virginia, McCain descended below 7,000 feet on a landing approach in a T-2 trainer jet, according to accident records. He said he heard an explosion in his engine and lost power. He said he tried unsuccessfully to restart the engine.
He spotted a local drag strip and considered trying to glide to a landing there but finally had to eject at 1,000 feet. The plane crashed in the woods. McCain escaped injury and was picked up by a farmer.
In a report dated Jan. 18, 1966, the Naval Aviation Safety Center said it could not determine the cause of the accident or corroborate McCain’s account of an explosion in the engine. A close examination of the engine found “no discrepancies which would have caused or contributed to engine failure or malfunction.â€
The report found that McCain, then assigned to squadron VT-7 in Meridian, Miss., had made several errors: He failed to switch the plane’s power system to battery backup, which “seriously jeopardized his survival chances.†His idea of landing on the drag strip was “viewed with concern and is indicative of questionable emergency procedure.â€
The report added, “It may be indeed fortunate that the pilot was not in a position to attempt such a landing.â€
McCain also ejected too late and too low, was not wearing proper flight equipment and positioned his body improperly before ejecting, the report said.
Can anyone imagine how those reports might have read, and what they would have done to any further chances of a naval flying career, had the person involved been just some plain old Joe instead of John Sidney McCain III? I sure as hell can! In fact, I know for a fact that his instructors at Corpus Christi tried to wash him out and were overruled.
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We know all that.
That's great.
He also had several highly publicized high decibel encounters with people.
And as was quoted in above....went out of his way to destroy those he disagree with.
I am looking for more information on that.
You can tout him all you want, he was an airman. He never would have been if not for his father.
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McCain, as a mortal was flawed, as his detractors incessantly remind us.
In contrast, he received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Silver Star,
among many, for gallantry and valor in wartime action.
Which of these two decorations did you receive????????????????????????
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McCain, as a mortal was flawed, as his detractors incessantly remind us.
In contrast, he received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Silver Star,
among many, for gallantry and valor in wartime action.
Which of these two decorations did you receive????????????????????????
I see you are back to shitposting while ignoring all the other comments on this thread. Why is that?
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/26BkLCUdp1lqUA2JO/giphy.gif)
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McCain, as a mortal was flawed, as his detractors incessantly remind us.
In contrast, he received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Silver Star,
among many, for gallantry and valor in wartime action.
Which of these two decorations did you receive????????????????????????
I don't have any of them nor do I want any. I was focused on DOING MY DAMNED JOB! Not seeing what kinds of ornaments I could obtain to put on my uniform. Every man in my outfit felt that way. If anyone got injured he put a bandaid on it and kept going. If it was too serious for us to treat ourselves the medics put a bandage on it for us. Only if we were in real danger of DYING did we get Medevaced. No one was interested in decorations and generally, no one got put in for them by our own choice.
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I don't have any of them nor do I want any. I was focused on DOING MY DAMNED JOB! Not seeing what kinds of ornaments I could obtain to put on my uniform. Every man in my outfit felt that way. If anyone got injured he put a band-aid on it and kept going. If it was too serious for us to treat ourselves the medics put a bandage on it for us. Only if we were in real danger of DYING did we get Medivaced. No one was interested in decorations and generally, no one got put in for them by our own choice.
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To you're credit, you're an honest Man!
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To you're credit, at least your honest!
Thank you! Honest is something John Sidney McCain III had no acquaintance with and the same goes for any number of current and former United States Senators. John F'n Kerry and Sidney Blumenthal to name just two who immediately come to mind.
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Thank you! Honest is something John Sidney McCain III had no acquaintance with and the same goes for any number of current and former United States Senators. John F'n Kerry and Sidney Blumenthal to name just two who immediately come to mind.
I think you mean Richard Blumenthal. Sidney was "Sid Vicious" in the Clinton machine, Bill's literal hatchet man.
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I think you mean Richard Blumenthal. Sidney was "Sid Vicious" in the Clinton machine, Bill's literal hatchet man.
:yowsa: Thank you for the correction @Cyber Liberty
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:yowsa: Thank you for the correction @Cyber Liberty
Well, they both suck, so.....
:patriot:
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Admiral John S. McCain Sr., the grandfather, died in 1945, when McCain III was 11 years old. So he could not have "got him out of prison". And he could not "got him out of that too". This is news to you, @LegalAmerican?
As I've posted on TBR multiple times, in detail, John S. McCain III could not possibly have caused the Forrestal fire. For the simple reason that all the strike planes were positioned along the Forrestal's aft and quarter deck edges with their exhausts pointed out to sea. This disproves:
* The McCain-caused-the-Zuni-to-launch version of this stupid conspiracy theory;
* It disproves the McCain-ignited-the-spilled-jet-fuel version of this stupid conspiracy theory;
* It disproves any other version of this stupid conspiracy theory, because there is no way McCain's exhaust could affect any other plane or equipment on the USS Forrestal; McCain had no plane behind him and his exhaust blew out to sea.
I have less than zero love for the late Sen. McCain, but the truth is the truth even when you might dislike it. McCain could not have caused the Forrestal fire.
our
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Pete, when you point out reality to certain posters you need lengthy preparation.
Before your next attempt, suggest you begin by constructing a brick wall, then
placing your chair some 4 feet in front and and repeat your argument, ever louder,
till the wall responds: OK, OK, YOU'RE RIGHT AND I'M WRONG; SO I APOLOGIZE.
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Quite frankly, I was relieved when McCain passed; IMHO he was very detrimental to our Republic and to conservatism. I really feel he doesn't deserve to be discussed any further.
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our
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Pete, when you point out reality to certain posters you need lengthy preparation.
Before your next attempt, suggest you begin by constructing a brick wall, then
placing your chair some 4 feet in front and and repeating your argument, ever louder,
till the wall responds: OK, OK, YOU'RE RIGHT AND I'M WRONG; SO I APOLOGIZE.
I agree with @PeteS in CA about the Forrestal, and I also think McCain is the worst spittle-spewing scumbag I ever met. I trust my experience more than your books on Ancient History that have no relationship with the jerks we have running the USA in the 21st Century.
If you want to get current, I suggest you start reading Churchill, WF Buckley. Stuff from the past couple centuries like Bastiat and de Tocqueville. Your ancient Greek ain't cutting it, Peloponnesia doesn't either. All quoting them gets you is a reputation of being an ignorant genius.
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Quite frankly, I was relieved when McCain passed; IMHO he was very detrimental to our Republic and to conservatism. I really feel he doesn't deserve to be discussed any further.
I suppose he does not, except his pill-popping wife and deranged children have no intention of letting that carcass rot.
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Quite frankly, I was relieved when McCain passed.
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Your appalling comment defines you forever!
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Your appalling comment defines you forever!
Pretty nasty stuff.
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Your appalling comment defines you forever!
Pretty nasty stuff.
Are you appalled that I was delighted to read his Obituary?
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Are you appalled that I was delighted to read his Obituary?
And you’re a mod here who was clutching his pearls when I called formers nutjobs...
Dancing in a hero’s grave is pretty disgusting, cyber.
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And you’re a mod here who was clutching his pearls when I called formers nutjobs...
Dancing in a hero’s grave is pretty disgusting, cyber.
He's no hero to me, @Weird Tolkienish Figure. And, what's a "former?"
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And you’re a mod here who was clutching his pearls when I called formers nutjobs...
Dancing in a hero’s grave is pretty disgusting, cyber.
THIS is a hero @Weird Tolkienish Figure
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUtJxE4sjs#)
John Sidney McCain III isn't worthy to scrape the dog shit off of his boots!
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THIS is a hero @Weird Tolkienish Figure
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_oUtJxE4sjs#)
John Sidney McCain III isn't worthy to scrape the dog shit off of his boots!
Nor is he worthy of further discussion. Just let him die. Period.
Otherwise we're likely to see some kind of despicable, bogus, hero worshiping documentary about him.
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The definition of a hero. Stayed in hell when he had a free pass out.
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Dancing in a hero’s grave is pretty disgusting, cyber.
Sorry, when he took the criminal Keating route, and back stabbed the GOP and conservatives in the back repeatedly..... He forfeited that title.
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McCain, as a mortal was flawed, as his detractors incessantly remind us.
In contrast, he received the Distinguished Flying Cross and the Silver Star,
among many, for gallantry and valor in wartime action.
Which of these two decorations did you receive????????????????????????
Nice try at deflection.
You can be a great and brave pilot and still be a first class pr*ck.
McCain was neither great nor brave. He was simply a pilot (and only thanks to dad).
His failings as a human being were many and well documented.
I am sorry, but I can't help that.
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Nice try at deflection.
You can be a great and brave pilot and still be a first class bleep.
McCain was neither great nor brave. He was simply a pilot (and only thanks to dad).
His failings as a human being were many and well documented.
I am sorry, but I can't help that.
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McCain, notwithstanding his warts, was a War Prisoner who received
the Silver Star, our third highest ranking award for heroism/valor, plus
the DCF; yet you, who earned zero, argue he was neither brave nor great.
What might help is to cease making an embarrassment of yourself.
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McCain, notwithstanding his warts, was a War Prisoner who received
the Silver Star, our third highest ranking award for heroism/valor, plus
the DCF; yet you, who earned zero, argue he was neither brave nor great.
What you could help is to cease making an embarrassment of yourself.
The great assblossum, not without standing in a field... speaketh
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFz_IhRUMAAJkIx.jpg)
(https://miro.medium.com/max/1046/1*HpEiIy6XK6lr_72bsG7VyQ.png)
John McCain was the pinnacle of honor his whole life. *****rollingeyes*****
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He's no hero to me, @Weird Tolkienish Figure. And, what's a "former?"
Neither to the men, that had to serve with him! :thumbsup:
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I guess we can write good things about Hitler, since he is dead? As death makes one 'wonderful'? A SAINT TO BE REVERED?
So what, a nasty person is dead. That does not mean, I will like him. OR can't tell truth about him.
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I guess we can write good things about Hitler, since he is dead? As death makes one 'wonderful'? A SAINT TO BE REVERED?
So what, a nasty person is dead. That does not mean, I will like him. OR can't tell truth about him.
Ok, so now you're comparing him to Hitler?
Wishy-washiness on politics does not make him Hitler.
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Ok, so now you're comparing him to Hitler?
Wishy-washiness on politics does not make him Hitler.
Gleefully voting for Obamacare on your death bed as a "stick it the eye" to Trump and conservatives is hardly what I would call "wishy-washy". I repeat...... he was a Keating criminal and back stabber of the hightest degree.
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Gleefully voting for Obamacare on your death bed as a "stick it the eye" to Trump and conservatives is hardly what I would call "wishy-washy". I repeat...... he was a Keating criminal and back stabber of the hightest degree.
And then we're said to be "dancing on his grave." I'd be urinating on it, but for the fact it's in Arlington and under heavy guard...to keep people from urinating on his grave.
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And then we're said to be "dancing on his grave." I'd be urinating on it, but for the fact it's in Arlington and under heavy guard...to keep people from urinating on his grave.
Bladder fodder? Not worth the trouble. OTOH, if there really was truth in tombstones, the term "Et Tu" would be permanently inscribed. You, in the vein of the senatorial kind of thing.
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I will not honor a man who did great damage to this country no matter what he once did 50 years ago. His character has been on display for a long time. He was not an honorable man.
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Sooooooo........
I started this thread to document information on John McCain.
Interpretation of what happened how he should be judged wasn't my intent.....although it has been interesting to see people's thoughts.
1st.....
I timelined his situation with his first/second wife.
I read that people were pretty unhappy with him dropping his first wife (a model who was disfigured in a car accident....she was totally devastated by his decision to leave) to marry a rich blonde who he was already sleeping with.
I then posted five different articles quoting examples of his temper and meanness (see where he called his new blonde wife a c**t when she teased him about his hair loss).
I am now looking into the claim that he decimated the GOP "bench" running off conservatives by engaging in personal destruction.
Cyber Liberty made the claim and I have seen some of this my readings. I will continue to research before I post what I find.
McCain was a long time fixture in AZ politics.
As far as I was concerned he sucked. He seemed bipolar. And would take moderate positions and then justify them with rational that was crazy.
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I will not honor a man who did great damage to this country no matter what he once did 50 years ago. His character has been on display for a long time. He was not an honorable man.
Benedict Arnold was a great "War Hero," too. We have how many lovers of Benedict Arnold here? Too many.
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I will not honor a man who did great damage to this country no matter what he once did 50 years ago. His character has been on display for a long time. He was not an honorable man.
Exactly. The last 19 years (at least!) of his life outweigh any good he might have done 5 decades ago.
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Even though he's been dead goin' on a couple of years now, the name "McCain" still gets folks worked up and arguin'...!
155 posts worth...!
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And then we're said to be "dancing on his grave." I'd be urinating on it, but for the fact it's in Arlington and under heavy guard...to keep people from urinating on his grave.
:thumbsup: