Weird! It appears to me they are trying to get the kids to think, but thinking without knowledge is useless.
Weird! It appears to me they are trying to get the kids to think, but thinking without knowledge is useless.Indeed. Basic facts should be the first foundation of learning and should be the primary focus of a child that age. This kind of question requires a level of higher-level thinking that should not be required of someone below about third or fourth grade. Elementary school is called "elementary" for a reason: it is supposed to teach the elements of learning. Leave the higher level stuff to middle and high school.
Indeed. Basic facts should be the first foundation of learning and should be the primary focus of a child that age. This kind of question requires a level of higher-level thinking that should not be required of someone below about third or fourth grade. Elementary school is called "elementary" for a reason: it is supposed to teach the elements of learning. Leave the higher level stuff to middle and high school.
Anna had 15 stickers. She gave 4 stickers to her best friend Jane. How many stickers does Anna have left?
Fourth question: what is it with Common Core conspiracy theorists and copyright? Let's try this:
EVERYTHING
This is kindergarten, 4 and 5 year olds. They don't do critical thinking at that age. You teach kids the basics first, and then, move on in steps. This is almost like working from the top down, rather than the bottom up.
This is kindergarten, 4 and 5 year olds. They don't do critical thinking at that age. You teach kids the basics first, and then, move on in steps. This is almost like working from the top down, rather than the bottom up.
There are a lot simpler ways to teach kids the same concept. I've been around many kids who knew the basics before starting school. Then, after starting school, they end up not doing very well. At that age, they learn as much from Sesame Street and other children's educational shows as they do schools, probably more.
There are a lot simpler ways to teach kids the same concept. I've been around many kids who knew the basics before starting school. Then, after starting school, they end up not doing very well. At that age, they learn as much from Sesame Street and other children's educational shows as they do schools, probably more.
This seems almost exactly how Sesame Street does it. Replace kids in a park with Cookie Monster and there you go.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-DYoAmVeK0A4/UXucX5I2yUI/AAAAAAAACyA/B8k6HnSynjw/s1600/Cookie+Subtraction1WEB.jpg)
There is a huge difference. The cookies is one problem. The paper at the top of the page is a bunch of random things. Teach the kids one thing at a time. It's not just about math, but these young children have to learn other subjects, too.
Give me a break. What is this dweeb's PhD in, art history? feminist lesbian critical studies?
First question: the note from the teacher expressly says "your child practiced telling subtraction stories." Did super-wiz PhD Dad bother to ask his five year old what the child did in class that day, in particular, about telling subtraction stories?
Second question: do people not know what a "subtraction story" is? Try Google. In the meantime, here's a good summary: it's a word problem, like this:
Is that really so difficult that a PhD cannot figure it out?
Third question: given the above, can anyone figure out what the point of that worksheet is? Anyone? Calling Ferris Bueller. Try this: it's about having the kid come up with three subtraction word problems using things in that picture.
Why the picture? Because (a) it gives the kids something visual and concrete to use in trying to work through what is an otherwise abstract concept - subtraction, and (b) it limits the universe of possible word problems the kids can come up with, which makes the teacher's job a little easier and more efficient when he (or she) checks the homework.
Why have the kids come up with subtraction stories on their own? Because it's a really good way to help develop their comprehension and understanding of subtraction and word problems in general. First of all, they actually do have to do the subtraction themselves in order to get a correct substraction story. Second, by having them put together a word problem using the subtraction problem they just figured out, it develops their understanding of what's really going on in a word problem; that's helpful for a lot of things besides subtraction and the fact of the matter is that young children can easily get confused about what they're supposed to do with a word problem. Sometimes the best way to understand something is to take it apart and put it back together again.
Fourth question: what is it with Common Core conspiracy theorists and copyright? Let's try this:EVERYTHING(which reminds me, Myst and R4P&C should probably put something in the Terms of Service about posters giving their copyrights, if any, to the forum for anything they post, or at least granting the forum a perpetual, nonexclusive, assignable license to use the posters' materials)
EVER
WRITTEN
IS
COPYRIGHTED.
EVERYTHING.
Copyright arises automatically as soon as something is written - the author doesn't have to do anything other than writing. Putting the (c) symbol makes the existence of copyright clear to anyone who reads the piece; that can be important for material that readers might assume is in the public domain.
Fifth question: "transprancy" is some subtle hint of deep, dark Common Core secrets? Seriously? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but homework worksheets sometimes come with mistakes like mispelled words. I used to amuse myself by "grading" the worksheets my daughter brought home when she was in 3d grade, complete with red pen.
Seriously people, there are enough other issues with Common Core - real issues that should addressed - that there is no need to fabricate issues where none exist.
This isn't a critical thinking question. This is a basic concept reinforcement. Understanding what is addition or subtraction by saying a story about it. At that age, you can't drill into them "Subtraction is the difference between two values....." What you can do is say, 'Subtraction is like when you have four apples and you give Sally two'. Analogies work great with very, very young children. (look at how we teach pre-school the alphabet- by showing an animal or object with each letter).
There are a lot of problems with Common Core (elimination of parental & local control, horrible history lessons, etc) but some of these so called 'bad math' problems are just silly. I've seen some bad ones, but I've seen some logical ones like this.
The first thing that struck me about this was the PhD didn't know what 'transparancy(sic)' meant? (yes, spelled wrong) I guess he hasn't been in a classroom in fifty years. He forgot about these?
(http://marbiengregory.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/overhead.jpg)
With all due respect, I have three sons, and fifteen grandkids (three great grandkids), so I have been around the block with education. I am not missing the point.
I wonder how those of us who were not educated via Common Core ever managed to read, write or get a successful job........... sarc
Give me a break. What is this dweeb's PhD in, art history? feminist lesbian critical studies?
First question: the note from the teacher expressly says "your child practiced telling subtraction stories." Did super-wiz PhD Dad bother to ask his five year old what the child did in class that day, in particular, about telling subtraction stories?
Second question: do people not know what a "subtraction story" is? Try Google. In the meantime, here's a good summary: it's a word problem, like this:
Is that really so difficult that a PhD cannot figure it out?
Third question: given the above, can anyone figure out what the point of that worksheet is? Anyone? Calling Ferris Bueller. Try this: it's about having the kid come up with three subtraction word problems using things in that picture.
Why the picture? Because (a) it gives the kids something visual and concrete to use in trying to work through what is an otherwise abstract concept - subtraction, and (b) it limits the universe of possible word problems the kids can come up with, which makes the teacher's job a little easier and more efficient when he (or she) checks the homework.
Why have the kids come up with subtraction stories on their own? Because it's a really good way to help develop their comprehension and understanding of subtraction and word problems in general. First of all, they actually do have to do the subtraction themselves in order to get a correct substraction story. Second, by having them put together a word problem using the subtraction problem they just figured out, it develops their understanding of what's really going on in a word problem; that's helpful for a lot of things besides subtraction and the fact of the matter is that young children can easily get confused about what they're supposed to do with a word problem. Sometimes the best way to understand something is to take it apart and put it back together again.
Fourth question: what is it with Common Core conspiracy theorists and copyright? Let's try this:EVERYTHING(which reminds me, Myst and R4P&C should probably put something in the Terms of Service about posters giving their copyrights, if any, to the forum for anything they post, or at least granting the forum a perpetual, nonexclusive, assignable license to use the posters' materials)
EVER
WRITTEN
IS
COPYRIGHTED.
EVERYTHING.
Copyright arises automatically as soon as something is written - the author doesn't have to do anything other than writing. Putting the (c) symbol makes the existence of copyright clear to anyone who reads the piece; that can be important for material that readers might assume is in the public domain.
Fifth question: "transprancy" is some subtle hint of deep, dark Common Core secrets? Seriously? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but homework worksheets sometimes come with mistakes like mispelled words. I used to amuse myself by "grading" the worksheets my daughter brought home when she was in 3d grade, complete with red pen.
Seriously people, there are enough other issues with Common Core - real issues that should addressed - that there is no need to fabricate issues where none exist.
I'm with you. I dropped out of college but I figured out the assignment by looking at the page.
I figured it out, too, but I am not five years old.
“State officials decided that New York test scores should be aligned with the achievement levels of the federally administered National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP).” This is “a completely inappropriate model,” according to Ravitch, because “‘proficient’ on NAEP is what most people would consider to be the equivalent of an A,” and “any state that expects all or most students to achieve an A on the state tests is setting most students up for failure.”
In fact, many public officials, including U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan, expected large numbers of students to fail. And now, many of those same officials are trying to convince New Yorkers, and the rest of us, that purposefully failing students is a good thing.
Rejoicing In Failure
In light of the high failure rates, business leaders in the state of New York immediately expressed their confidence in the way things are going. In a letter, they intoned, “As business executives, we understand how challenging it can be for organizations to operate in a changing environment.” But “moving forward” is “crucial.”
The high rate of failure is “good news,” trumpeted former New York City School Chancellor Joel Klein in an op-ed in the New York Post.
That is just your opinion. I happen to disagree. Here is another math problem, that can be figured out, but is a waste of time.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1383861_10202036954910493_1807116606_n.jpg)
I wonder how those of us who were not educated via Common Core ever managed to read, write or get a successful job........... sarc
That is just your opinion. I happen to disagree. Here is another math problem, that can be figured out, but is a waste of time.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1383861_10202036954910493_1807116606_n.jpg)
I always thought that one of the great objects of teaching was to simplify the complex.
Apparently I was wrong.
It appears instead that the object of teaching is to complicate the simple.
I always thought that one of the great objects of teaching was to simplify the complex.
Apparently I was wrong.
It appears instead that the object of teaching is to complicate the simple.
Are you saying you can't figure that out? That is a very clear demonstation of what's really going on when one "borrows" from a higher digit in order to subtract a larger digit from a smaller digit.
http://portwashington-news.com/parents-push-back-against-common-core/
The Port Washington Board of Education had been debating the merits or lack thereof of the common core standards and found that when combined with more stringent testing standards students’ scores have come up short.
snip.....
strategies,” Greenstein said.
“I am the mother of a fourth grader in the Port Washington School District,” Deborah Abramson Brooks said. “She gets frustrated by some of the assignments because the questions are convoluted.”
snip........
The problems with the common core include its being “developed and pushed along by people who have more interest in business than they do education,” Abramson Brooks said. “They also don’t include much of a well-balanced curriculum, with their main focus on English and math.”
“If the point of elementary education is to teach children how to think creatively, problem-solve and learn from their mistakes,” asked East Williston parent Christine Cozzolino, “how can we expect our children to be innovators when they are subject to scripted lessons and the rigorous testing of the common core?”
snip...
Parents angrily questioned the one-size-fits-all approach that seems to underlie the standards—the “common” in common core.
snip....
Cheers and jeers were the norm, and especially rose when Westbury Teachers Association Christine Corbett stepped up to discuss students losing interest in school because of rigid testing regime.
snip......
Another key issue was teacher evaluations. Twenty percent of a teacher’s or principal’s rating is linked to state test scores. The state reported a 40 percent drop in test scores of third through eighth-grade in the new roll-out of the English and math curriculum.
snip............
“Eighty percent of the evaluation is determined locally through collective bargaining,” King said. “For the 80 percent of teachers who don’t teach students in grades three through eight ELA and math, the gross portion is determined by the school districts.”
snip........
Outside the forum, Jeanette Deutermann, founder of the Facebook group “Long Island Opt Out,” now more than 12,000 members strong, was among the protesters. According to Deutermann, data collected through inBloom catalogs an individual’s information from birth to age 20 and includes not just names, but address, birthplace, economic status, race, ethnicity, disabilities, and other information that some parents may wish to keep private.
“Data mining is across the board all kinds of wrong,” Deutermann said. “They want the data and that’s what is driving the entire system.”
The challenge for school districts is to keep families from opting out, which impacts state and federal funding. With groups like Deutermann’s gaining steam, that challenge is growing.
++++++++++++++++++++++
You're correct as to the object of teaching; but you're incorrect in the conclusion that this material is complicating the simple. It is precisely simplifying the complicated. You may not think that doing two-digit subtraction is complicated, but that's primarily because you've been doing it since you were in kindergarten; as such, you almost certainly no longer appreciate just how daunting it is for a kid to look at something like 40 - 8 = ? which seems so simple to you. Part and parcel of teaching is having the adults - the teachers - regain an understanding of that kid's view so that they can then apply their own expertise to walking the kid through how to solve using what the kid already knows and using tools and techniques the kid is comfortable with - like counting on your fingers.
OF COURSE, I can figure it out. I'm 66 years old, not a 7 year old. Why all that work for one problem, when it can be done in a few seconds? Like Andy said, simple is smarter.
You are looking at this from the standpoint of a 50-year-old (plus or minus) man who delights in fidding with math equations etc., not from the standpoint of a 4 or 5-year old. Simple is always better than complicated, you loose too many students when you start making it complicated and that equates to more drop out students and ever-lowering overall education in this country. Under Common Core the bright kids are held back and the not-so-bright kids are left totally behind... it's a one-size-fits all and we are not all one-size fits all in life. Each student and each person is individual and a good teacher looks at them individually and lets the smarter kids go ahead while he or she works with the kids who are struggling. Not every child has a father at home to spend hours helping them with their math homework.. some are lucky to have a parent home in the evening at all.
I am coming at this from a completely different perspective, being in adult education. One of my biggest challenges is working on programs that bring adults in the workforce up to corporate America's standards- and math is very much a challenge.
These problems seem very simple to me (the first one especially) but what is severely lacking it seems is the teachers and curriculum developer's real understanding of the method in order to explain it clearly on the worksheets.
The second one in this thread is a perfect example of a simple concept horribly explained (Oceander did a good job). One of the oldest and best tools for math, even complex number addition and subtraction, is the abacus. It has been used for thousands of years and is still used in offices all over China. You can do number calculations extremely quickly with those and it simplifies the concept of large number addition and subtraction to something even one who has never added or subtracted above 2 digits can do with ease. The second concept above SHOULD explain it like how one would use an abacus. Everyone here would get it in a heart beat.
This comes around to one of the big problems with Common Core. You have a single, 'common' curriculum development with no checks and balances and no local control. Some college hipster with a lot of letters behind his name is probably hired to write these lessons and he cares more about showing off some new concept than he does in clear explanations that produce results.
If there were local control of the curriculum with parents and boards choosing multiple suppliers and always looking for the best, the different curriculum development firms would be clamoring over each other to produce better and better results. There would be hundreds, if not thousands of checks and balances against how the curriculum is delivered, each testing what works best for the audience who is buying it. It would naturally evolve into better education.
Instead we have are trying to evolve education by mating clones.
My daughter-in-law, who lives in New York, has taught school for nearly 20 years. She said the what's worse than the kids having learn complicated procedures are the directions she is given to for teaching them. The parents are complaining, as well as the teachers who complain about teaching it.
:amen: :amen:
You're correct as to the object of teaching; but you're incorrect in the conclusion that this material is complicating the simple. It is precisely simplifying the complicated. You may not think that doing two-digit subtraction is complicated, but that's primarily because you've been doing it since you were in kindergarten; as such, you almost certainly no longer appreciate just how daunting it is for a kid to look at something like 40 - 8 = ? which seems so simple to you. Part and parcel of teaching is having the adults - the teachers - regain an understanding of that kid's view so that they can then apply their own expertise to walking the kid through how to solve using what the kid already knows and using tools and techniques the kid is comfortable with - like counting on your fingers.
I am coming at this from a completely different perspective, being in adult education. One of my biggest challenges is working on programs that bring adults in the workforce up to corporate America's standards- and math is very much a challenge.
These problems seem very simple to me (the first one especially) but what is severely lacking it seems is the teachers and curriculum developer's real understanding of the method in order to explain it clearly on the worksheets.
The second one in this thread is a perfect example of a simple concept horribly explained (Oceander did a good job). One of the oldest and best tools for math, even complex number addition and subtraction, is the abacus. It has been used for thousands of years and is still used in offices all over China. You can do number calculations extremely quickly with those and it simplifies the concept of large number addition and subtraction to something even one who has never added or subtracted above 2 digits can do with ease. The second concept above SHOULD explain it like how one would use an abacus. Everyone here would get it in a heart beat.
This comes around to one of the big problems with Common Core. You have a single, 'common' curriculum development with no checks and balances and no local control. Some college hipster with a lot of letters behind his name is probably hired to write these lessons and he cares more about showing off some new concept than he does in clear explanations that produce results.
If there were local control of the curriculum with parents and boards choosing multiple suppliers and always looking for the best, the different curriculum development firms would be clamoring over each other to produce better and better results. There would be hundreds, if not thousands of checks and balances against how the curriculum is delivered, each testing what works best for the audience who is buying it. It would naturally evolve into better education.
Instead we have are trying to evolve education by mating clones.
And the core problem your daughter-in-law is describing is the radically stupid way in which NY is implementing Common Core. Basically, the easiest analogy I've found is to a manual transmission car - thankfully, I think I can assume that everyone here knows what that is: the way NY is implementing Common Core is like shifting a car from first gear straight to fifth gear without going through gears two, three or four; you can do it, but you're either going to burn out your clutch or redline your engine. But just because someone burns a clutch shifting like that doesn't mean that the transmission itself is bad, or that the car is bad.
I can tell you from going to some of the meetings at the school that many of the teachers are just as anxious and tense as the parents because they've been thrown into the deep end without having been given proper swimming lessons either. That all leads to a really tragic, toxic situation in which the anxiety of the kids, of the parents, and of the teachers all feed off of each other.
In short, the enemy is NYS, not Common Core.
The methodology is non-intuitive. Look at the number of steps involved as compared with the traditional method of subtraction - it is unnecessarily complex to introduce addition into subtraction by means of such a methodology (40-10 = 30 +2 = 32). Try doing that with four-digit numbers and see where it gets you. "Borrowing and carrying" makes it both easy to comprehend, and translatable to large numbers.