The Briefing Room
General Category => Science, Technology and Knowledge => Energy => Topic started by: thackney on December 17, 2019, 06:19:25 pm
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Tesla is going to deploy a big battery in Alaska to replace fossil-fuel plant
https://electrek.co/2019/12/17/tesla-big-battery-energy-storage-system-alaska/
Dec. 17th 2019
...Homer Electric Association (HEA), a member-owned electric utility cooperative based in Alaska, announced that it’s working with Tesla to deploy a big battery:
The BESS will be capable of storing 93 MWh (Megawatt hours) of electrical power that can be delivered to the grid at a rate of 46.5 MWs per hour. The BESS will allow HEA to meet its reliability requirements without having to burn additional fuel. This will result in greater system efficiencies, lower greenhouse gas production, and reduced power outages.
The BESS (Battery Energy Storage System) is going to be installed at the Soldotna Generation Plant.
HEA says that the battery is going to enable them to use more renewable energy and less power from plants burning fossil fuels:
The BESS also provides a great side benefit of opening the door to renewable intermittent energy projects that would have otherwise stretched current thermal generation assets.
The new project is expected to be in service in fall 2021....
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You are the electrical guy but doesn't the old high voltage issues around AC/DC come into play?
1600/440/220V in particular.
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You are the electrical guy but doesn't the old high voltage issues around AC/DC come into play?
1600/440/220V in particular.
Those are not high voltages.
I am not sure what issues you are referring to around AC/DC.
AC to DC and back again is done in power systems even up to 500kV, probably higher but I don't remember them.
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(https://stopthesethings.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/battery-truck.jpg)
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You are the electrical guy but doesn't the old high voltage issues around AC/DC come into play?
1600/440/220V in particular.
Back in 2003, just as I moved to Alaska, they put in service this Battery Energy Storage System. Basically a UPS with Ni-Cad batteries at 25MW, 138 kV but only 15 minute of storage capacity.
https://www.gvea.com/energy/bess (https://www.gvea.com/energy/bess)
https://library.e.abb.com/public/3c4e15816e4a7bf1c12578d100500565/Case_Note_BESS_GVEA_Fairbanks-web.pdf (https://library.e.abb.com/public/3c4e15816e4a7bf1c12578d100500565/Case_Note_BESS_GVEA_Fairbanks-web.pdf)
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You are the electrical guy but doesn't the old high voltage issues around AC/DC come into play?
1600/440/220V in particular.
(https://www.rollingstone.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/rs-145876-ca27ba16e67b7bee32cef0d00c5323a21814f6dc.jpg)
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Those are not high voltages.
I am not sure what issues you are referring to around AC/DC.
AC to DC and back again is done in power systems even up to 500kV, probably higher but I don't remember them.
Has the single point battery failure cascading into a large fire really been solved? I've seen pictures of some of these Tesla battery units producing spectacular fires.
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Has the single point battery failure cascading into a large fire really been solved? I've seen pictures of some of these Tesla battery units producing spectacular fires.
There are a lot of lithium-ion battery systems in utility sized service. Honestly I don't think the occurrence is a significant failure rate.
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Has the single point battery failure cascading into a large fire really been solved? I've seen pictures of some of these Tesla battery units producing spectacular fires.
Yeah, I am hearing a lot about that... Homestead solar is a thing here, and many people were going to those tesla batteries... But now they are going back... fear of cascade/ fire being a serious consideration.
The other being something about having to buy them in pairs, versus lead acid which can be added singly (high voltage systems I believe) in cases of expansion.
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Those are not high voltages.
I am not sure what issues you are referring to around AC/DC.
AC to DC and back again is done in power systems even up to 500kV, probably higher but I don't remember them.
How can a battery provide high enough voltages for home needs? By how you mention above?
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How can a battery provide high enough voltages for home needs? By how you mention above?
These are not for home use but connected in series to make voltages high enough for the Utility.
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Yeah, I am hearing a lot about that... Homestead solar is a thing here, and many people were going to those tesla batteries... But now they are going back... fear of cascade/ fire being a serious consideration.
The other being something about having to buy them in pairs, versus lead acid which can be added singly (high voltage systems I believe) in cases of expansion.
There are options to Tesla.
http://aquionenergy.com/homeowners/solar-battery/ (http://aquionenergy.com/homeowners/solar-battery/)
https://news.energysage.com/tesla-powerwall-vs-sonnen-eco-vs-lg-chem/ (https://news.energysage.com/tesla-powerwall-vs-sonnen-eco-vs-lg-chem/)
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There are options to Tesla.
http://aquionenergy.com/homeowners/solar-battery/ (http://aquionenergy.com/homeowners/solar-battery/)
https://news.energysage.com/tesla-powerwall-vs-sonnen-eco-vs-lg-chem/ (https://news.energysage.com/tesla-powerwall-vs-sonnen-eco-vs-lg-chem/)
Look, this ain't my gig, so I might be talking nonsense... But from what I gather, and this much I know is true, Solar systems are generally way, way out of the price range of the folks I know that need em. And your second link pretty well proves it.
You have to realize that most of these folks are paying straight out-of-pocket, out of principle first. That is why most of em are checking out and getting off the grid in the first place. It's a self-sufficiency thing. Few of them - VERY few - Have the semolians to lay out the 15k or so that it would take for a robust starter system turn-key.
Most of them spend the money on the panels because winter production by those panels is around half or less what you might get out of them in full summer sun... I don't know the particulars but 6 big panels seems to be the average... And about 6 batteries (four is more likely), which seems to be the barely sufficient start. All they can do, and then they make do. And at that, still a lot of time with the jenny charging what the solar cells can't do.
As time goes on, and they can afford it, that system will be added to as they go...
That is partly strategic too - as portions of the system are older, not as old, and current, making maintenance change-out far more possible that had they bought the whole shooting match at once... Two batteries failing is doable for replacement, whereas the whole system failing at once would be impossible to afford...
Even the tesla car batts (bought used in pairs, around $5k a pair going rate I think) are a burden to afford...
That ability to add-on... the very necessity of building as you go, puts li-ion pretty out of reach.
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These are not for home use but connected in series to make voltages high enough for the Utility.
The higher the combined battery voltages are the lower the switching losses are in the DC/AC inverters.
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The higher the combined battery voltages are the lower the switching losses are in the DC/AC inverters.
The one in Fairbanks from the past decade operated ~5,000Vdc.
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Nothing I see on economics.
I wonder how it could possibly be economic?
The only part of article which hinted at it is that the battery will cause less usage of fossil fuels.
Since fossil fuels are abundant and cheap, this certainly bears scrutiny on the economics side.
But the author will not undertake that scrutiny as, what I said previously, it cannot possibly be economic.
Ok, I bite. How could it be?