The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on August 12, 2014, 07:50:04 pm
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http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/214962-gop-lawmaker-pushes-mental-health-reform-after-robin-williamss-death (http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/214962-gop-lawmaker-pushes-mental-health-reform-after-robin-williamss-death)
Lawmaker urges mental health reforms after Robin Williams's death
By Elise Viebeck - 08/12/14 03:19 PM EDT
Rep. Tim Murphy on Tuesday called for action on mental health reform in response to the death of actor Robin Williams.
"Perhaps Robin Williams' greatest gift to us, if we choose to accept it, is a focused determination to help those with brain illness and finally take real action to stop the loss of one more precious life," Murphy (R-Pa.) said in a statement.
Law enforcement officials on Tuesday said the late actor committed suicide, though the final determination will be made by a coroner in Marin County, Calif., where the actor lived.
The actor’s death has put a spotlight on mental illness and prompted conversations about rising rates of suicide around the country.
Murphy wrote legislation at the behest of GOP leaders to overhaul the mental health system in response to the 2012 elementary school shooting in Newtown, Conn.
The measure has proven too controversial to move in one piece, though Murphy is keeping up the pressure.
House Republican leaders indicated in June that they would move some provisions individually, but Murphy argues that leaving out key components makes the reform effort unserious.
His bill would loosen standards for involuntary mental health treatment, increase psychiatric beds and gut the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, which critics say does not help people who are seriously ill.
A range of powerful outside groups are uneasy about these reforms, leading to the wider stalemate.
A spokeswoman for the House Energy and Commerce Committee expressed hope that some portions of the bill would move in September.
Murphy, a psychologist, said mental health problems have become a “national crisis that demands our response.”
“There are nearly 40,000 suicides each year. Over the last decade the annual suicide rate among Mr. Williams' age group has increased nearly 30 percent. In what other discipline of medicine would we ignore such staggering statistics?”
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My mother's congresscritter, unfortunately. Good grief, Mr. Murphy - this is not a federal matter.
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Robin Williams repeated this statement, made earlier by somebody else,
"suicide is a permanent solution, for a temporary problem."
For the depressed, often they go into something like remission for awhile, everything seems great. They might take themselves off their meds, to avoid the side effects which can be bad.
Then the depression comes roaring back with a vengeance, they may isolate, and boom--suicide.
I have friends with depression, and we will be talking about this for certain.
The technical name is "dual diagnosis" which means substance abuse/addiction and mental illness.
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I was wondering how long it would be before the government used this. I'm just surprised the first had an R behind his name.
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I am 1000% in favor.
Robin Williams was never shy about taking about his demons. It's a fitting tribute to him.
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They should have done this decades ago.
http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/consequences/homeless-mentally-ill.html
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I support this because of two personal tragedies in regards to depression. I had two members of my family commit suicide because they were suffering from extreme depression. One hanged himself in his cellar and his mother found him and the other overdosed on black tar heroin four months ago. The one that hanged himself I was going to get him that morning to have him committed to one of our local institutions.
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I support this because of two personal tragedies in regards to depression. I had two members of my family commit suicide because they were suffering from extreme depression. One hanged himself in his cellar and his mother found him and the other overdosed on black tar heroin four months ago. The one that hanged himself I was going to get him that morning to have him committed to one of our local institutions.
Sorry about your family tragedies. I agree that access to mental health treatment should be easier for people to get, and the taboo about seeking help needs to go away. Mental illness is real - and it's not the "fault" of those who suffer from it.
I'm not comfortable with the government stepping in this way though. Things like that should be initiated and administered by health care professionals and not bureaucrats.
I had to convince my father to agree to commit himself into a mental facility and the whole experience was devastating to him and to myself. There needs to be much more done to learn how to treat it. In my father's case, I think they went overboard on medication - so I think people should look at other alternatives if medications are not helping. (I can certainly understand WHY institutions rely heavily on medication - but I don't think they are a long-term solution.)
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Sorry about your family tragedies. I agree that access to mental health treatment should be easier for people to get, and the taboo about seeking help needs to go away. Mental illness is real - and it's not the "fault" of those who suffer from it.
I'm not comfortable with the government stepping in this way though. Things like that should be initiated and administered by health care professionals and not bureaucrats.
I had to convince my father to agree to commit himself into a mental facility and the whole experience was devastating to him and to myself. There needs to be much more done to learn how to treat it. In my father's case, I think they went overboard on medication - so I think people should look at other alternatives if medications are not helping. (I can certainly understand WHY institutions rely heavily on medication - but I don't think they are a long-term solution.)
I think that let the state and local government provide the money but health care professionals(the ones who have certified degrees in psychiatry and psychology) must be running the show, I do agree that government should not be making those decisions but they can deliver the money. But there are special cases where you get people that are too delusional that they are harmful to themselves and to others.There are many homeless people who are wandering the streets tonight who are extremely mentally ill. Maybe a little government can get them the help they need. I do agree that there a tendency of over medicating people but every thing is trial and error when it comes to medication. In other words, finding the correct combination of drugs that are therapeutic so this person can be a productive member of society.
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"Perhaps Robin Williams' greatest gift to us, if we choose to accept it, is a focused determination to help those with brain illness and finally take real action to stop the loss of one more precious life," Murphy (R-Pa.) said in a statement.
Might want to start by learning to differentiate between a "brain illness" and "mental illness". They are not interchangeable.
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Won't be long before they'll commit all of you for the 'brain illness' of opposing the government...
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Won't be long before they'll commit all of you for the 'brain illness' of opposing the government...
Its better having these people wandering the streets of America. There are veterans with PTSD from Iraq and Afganistan are killing themselves because they are not getting the proper treatment. Do you think that they should end the nightmare they live with day after day with therapeutic counseling and drug treatment? Vets are have a high possibility with depression that leads to suicide.Most of jails and prisons are filled with people with mental illness. Those people would be housed in homes for the criminally insane where they would get treatment while they serve out their sentences. These homes can be managed by the state where their will be under the watchful eye of psychological bar associations made up of certified health care professionals. I only know of two in the state of California. the first is Patton is a major forensic mental hospital operated by the California Department of State Hospitals and the second is Atascadero.
http://www.stripes.com/report-suicide-rate-spikes-among-young-veterans-1.261283
http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/4/406.full
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While I in no way disagree with you - the state of mental health care is despicable - I'd be cautious about making it government run.
Maybe run it on the AA model? People need help, they can get help. No stigma involved. Doctors who actually give a crap about you. A massive support network there for you, with people who know where you are coming from because they've been through it themselves.
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While I in no way disagree with you - the state of mental health care is despicable - I'd be cautious about making it government run.
Maybe run it on the AA model? People need help, they can get help. No stigma involved. Doctors who actually give a crap about you. A massive support network there for you, with people who know where you are coming from because they've been through it themselves.
Where the people who cannot afford personal help the get finances to pay for their help? That is why the government provide the money while certified health care professionals set up the system. The government will not have any say in designing the system. When the mentally ill enter the penal system who pays for them the taxpayer. We pay for their housing,food medicine and health care. It would be cheaper to treat people when they are not in the penal system.
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Ahh yes. Just another hook to get Obamacare permanently buried in our collective hide.
Why is it so many people so often forget that old, but oh so true, canard: let the Devil pay the piper, and the Devil calls the tune.
Does anyone remember the Soviet's use of psychiatry, and government control thereof? Remember that political dissent was labeled a psychiatric disorder and grounds for involuntary, usually life-long, confinement?
But that would never happen here, would it? I dunno, but if the politicians in control are willing to use the IRS against their political opponents, why would anyone other than an effing moron - or a lib/prog - think that wouldn't happen with the federal department of mental health is beyond me.
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Ahh yes. Just another hook to get Obamacare permanently buried in our collective hide.
Why is it so many people so often forget that old, but oh so true, canard: let the Devil pay the piper, and the Devil calls the tune.
Does anyone remember the Soviet's use of psychiatry, and government control thereof? Remember that political dissent was labeled a psychiatric disorder and grounds for involuntary, usually life-long, confinement?
But that would never happen here, would it? I dunno, but if the politicians in control are willing to use the IRS against their political opponents, why would anyone other than an effing moron - or a lib/prog - think that wouldn't happen with the federal department of mental health is beyond me.
From your comments, I guess better for to have delusional homeless and psychotic homeless people wandering the streets of America looking in trash cans for food. While out in the streets homeless women run the risk of being raped.I have heard the stories over and over again.I guess that its all right with you for our war Veterans returning from Iraq and Afganistan sutffering from PTSD. They relive their horror over and horror over again suffering severe shellshock.. Family members you cant deal with a mentally ill person. Perhaps there is a mentally ill person in your family. I guess that its all right with you that an estimated 54 million Americans suffer from some form of mental disorder in a given year .I guess that its all right with you mentally ill people are clogging our jails and costing more money to hold them there. zIts cheaper to treat them in group homes/institutions than in jail. I guess its all right with you that our veterans have the highest rate of suicide and depression. Its difficult for them to get the help because the cannot get the help from the Veterans Administration because its broken down. I guess that Its better to hate Obama and keep these people in a perpetual state of delusion rather spend a few bucks. If we spent a few bucks we can get them to be productive members of society. Why don't you show little compassion that you are lacking. These are human beings but you rather play politics.
http://www.stripes.com/report-suicide-rate-spikes-among-young-veterans-1.261283
http://www.jaapl.org/content/35/4/406.full
http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/consequences/homeless-mentally-ill.html
http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/recognizing-warning-signs
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Ahh yes. Just another hook to get Obamacare permanently buried in our collective hide.
Why is it so many people so often forget that old, but oh so true, canard: let the Devil pay the piper, and the Devil calls the tune.
Does anyone remember the Soviet's use of psychiatry, and government control thereof? Remember that political dissent was labeled a psychiatric disorder and grounds for involuntary, usually life-long, confinement?
But that would never happen here, would it? I dunno, but if the politicians in control are willing to use the IRS against their political opponents, why would anyone other than an effing moron - or a lib/prog - think that wouldn't happen with the federal department of mental health is beyond me.
My cousins committed suicide because they could not afford any treatment. If the money was there maybe my cousins would still be alive today.
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My cousins committed suicide because they could not afford any treatment. If the money was there maybe my cousins would still be alive today.
And maybe they wouldn't. The chance would have been nice, but I consider suicide like alcoholism. You get the urge. Maybe they'd be alive. Maybe they'd have done it anyway. We can't know. All we know is that loss hurts like the deepest pits of hell.
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My cousins committed suicide because they could not afford any treatment. If the money was there maybe my cousins would still be alive today.
With all due respect, how do you know? Robin Williams had all the money in the world for treatment, and still he committed suicide. One can point to any number of well-heeled individuals who committed suicide despite their wealth.
That being said, I'm not averse to the concept of a good method of providing a better safety-net; what I am virtually certain of, however, is that the federal government doesn't provide safety-nets, it provides swamps and sink-holes.
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With all due respect, how do you know?
I have met people who have severe mental problems through the Relief Society of the LDS church. Mormons are to help people in need and provide help.We are in constantly involved in the homeless community so we see these things. In 1989,Ensign Magazine(which is the official magazine of the LDS church) the Relief Society wrote an article titled "Mental Illness: In Search of Understanding and Hope". It gives information on all the mood disorders and how to deal with . The reason Robin Williams committed suicide because there was no one to help him in his time of need. He was possibly self medicating himself with alcohol or drugs.Also there is a stigma attached for people are mentally ill or depressed. They languish in the shadows then it gets to a point its easier to kill oneself. That is why he kept it quiet for so long. Maybe you should check out these websites about people who have depression,mentally ill and suicide:
http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20521915_4,00.html
http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20521915_7,00.html
http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20521915_9,00.html
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/02/mental-illness-in-search-of-understanding-and-hope?lang=eng
*UPDATED*
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The reason Robin Williams committed suicide because there was no one to help him in his time of need. He was possibly self medicating himself with alcohol or drugs.
Speculative nonsense.
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Speculative nonsense.
According to the UK Mail Online Robin Williams checked himself into a rehab clinic. I have linked the story for you
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722538/Robin-Williams-checked-Minnesota-rehab-center-focus-continued-commitment-sobriety-tragic-death.html
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Then it appears he was well aware of the availability of help "in his time of need," but since none of us can read the mind of a dead man, it's silly to claim to know what he was thinking or feeling when he decided to hang himself.
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Then it appears he was well aware of the availability of help "in his time of need," but since none of us can read the mind of a dead man, it's silly to claim to know what he was thinking or feeling when he decided to hang himself.
Himself not his family. Usually people who have depression keep it to themselves. Both of my aunts never knew that their sons had depresson until it was too late.
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Himself not his family. Usually people who have depression keep it to themselves. Both of my aunts never knew that their sons had depresson until it was too late.
There is a stigmatism toward people who have depression. That is why many of them who do not turn to their families for help
http://www.mentalhealth.wa.gov.au/mental_illness_and_health/mh_stigma.aspx
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There is a stigmatism toward people who have depression. That is why many of them who do not turn to their families for help
http://www.mentalhealth.wa.gov.au/mental_illness_and_health/mh_stigma.aspx
Depression is called the silent killer. Instead of getting these people some help we are playing politics.
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/108583/depression/the_silent_killer___clinical_depression.html
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There is a stigmatism toward people who have depression. That is why many of them who do not turn to their families for help
http://www.mentalhealth.wa.gov.au/mental_illness_and_health/mh_stigma.aspx
Here is a website on understanding suicide.Instead of getting these people some help we are playing politics.
http://www.mentalhealth.wa.gov.au/mental_illness_and_health/mh_suicide.aspx
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Himself not his family. Usually people who have depression keep it to themselves. Both of my aunts never knew that their sons had depresson until it was too late.
Williams knew he had depression. He was very public about his alcoholism, and his depression.
Even when all your family and friends know, that doesn't mean they can watch you 24/7 if the individual is determined to end it.
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Even when all your family and friends know, that doesn't mean they can watch you 24/7 if the individual is determined to end it.
He had a wife didn't he and a housekeeper? She and the should noticed the changes in his attitude. I noticed the changes in my cousin when he died.Clinically depressed people usually have had signs of a depressed mood or a decreased interest in pleasurable activities for at least a 2-week period. The wife may have known the changes because of her close proximity to him. When I get depressed people notice a subtle change in my attitude so I know how he may have felt.
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/108583/depression/the_silent_killer___clinical_depression.html
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There comes a point where you are no longer your brother's keeper. Cold? Definitely. Correct? Absolutely.
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I have met people who have severe mental problems through the Relief Society of the LDS church. Mormons are to help people in need and provide help.We are in constantly involved in the homeless community so we see these things. In 1989,Ensign Magazine(which is the official magazine of the LDS church) the Relief Society wrote an article titled "Mental Illness: In Search of Understanding and Hope". It gives information on all the mood disorders and how to deal with . The reason Robin Williams committed suicide because there was no one to help him in his time of need. He was possibly self medicating himself with alcohol or drugs.Also there is a stigma attached for people are mentally ill or depressed. They languish in the shadows then it gets to a point its easier to kill oneself. That is why he kept it quiet for so long. Maybe you should check out these websites about people who have depression,mentally ill and suicide:
http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20521915_4,00.html
http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20521915_7,00.html
http://www.health.com/health/gallery/0,,20521915_9,00.html
https://www.lds.org/ensign/1989/02/mental-illness-in-search-of-understanding-and-hope?lang=eng
*UPDATED*
With all due respect, your proposed solution is not thought out and would lead to nothing less than wholesale control and "management" of individuals by the government for the sake of their own mental health.
How so? Since, according to you, people with mental health problems never tell anyone - an extremely dubious proposition by the way, and refuted by reams of evidence - then the only way for us to tell, ex ante, if someone has mental health problems is to comprehensively insert ourselves - via our government mental health agencies - into every individual's life to see if he or she is hiding a mental illness.
Pardon the pun, but that way lies madness.
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There comes a point where you are no longer your brother's keeper. Cold? Definitely. Correct? Absolutely.
Unfortunately, there is no point where the government no longer thinks it needs to increase it's power and ability to intervene...
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There comes a point where you are no longer your brother's keeper. Cold? Definitely. Correct? Absolutely.
Very heartless
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With all due respect, your proposed solution is not thought out and would lead to nothing less than wholesale control and "management" of individuals by the government for the sake of their own mental health.
How so? Since, according to you, people with mental health problems never tell anyone - an extremely dubious proposition by the way, and refuted by reams of evidence - then the only way for us to tell, ex ante, if someone has mental health problems is to comprehensively insert ourselves - via our government mental health agencies - into every individual's life to see if he or she is hiding a mental illness.
Pardon the pun, but that way lies madness.
Government will not run this. It will be run by health care professionals
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It will be run by health care professionals
Whose actions will be dictated by the government...
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With all due respect, your proposed solution is not thought out and would lead to nothing less than wholesale control and "management" of individuals by the government for the sake of their own mental health.
How so? Since, according to you, people with mental health problems never tell anyone - an extremely dubious proposition by the way, and refuted by reams of evidence - then the only way for us to tell, ex ante, if someone has mental health problems is to comprehensively insert ourselves - via our government mental health agencies - into every individual's life to see if he or she is hiding a mental illness.
Pardon the pun, but that way lies madness.
I never told anyone because of stigma attached to it. It people like you who do not understand the day to day struggle with this condition.
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Whose actions will be dictated by the government...
Also there would be oversight committee the money is being spent correctly.There is already oversight committees.The State of California Department of Public Health watches and regulates policies.On November 2004, voters in the U.S. state of California passed Proposition 63, the Mental Health Services Act (MHSA), which has been designed to expand and transform California’s county mental health service systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Mental_Health_Services_Act
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With all due respect, your proposed solution is not thought out and would lead to nothing less than wholesale control and "management" of individuals by the government for the sake of their own mental health.
How so? Since, according to you, people with mental health problems never tell anyone - an extremely dubious proposition by the way, and refuted by reams of evidence - then the only way for us to tell, ex ante, if someone has mental health problems is to comprehensively insert ourselves - via our government mental health agencies - into every individual's life to see if he or she is hiding a mental illness.
Pardon the pun, but that way lies madness.
Clinically depressed people usually have had signs of a depressed mood or a decreased interest in pleasurable activities for at least a 2-week period.
.thers function appropriately in their interactions with the outside world by exerting great effort and forcing themselves to mask their distres
These sensations are frequently manifestations of depressions. The depression is undiagnosed about half of the time and masquerades as physical health problems. I suffer from clinically depression.When I get depressed people notice a subtle change in my attitude so I know how he may have felt.
http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/108583/depression/the_silent_killer___clinical_depression.html
In California this is how mental healthcare is implied:California State Department of Mental Health (DMH)[edit]
In accordance with realignment, the DMH approves county three-year implementation plans, upon comment from the MHSOAC,[18] and passes programmatic responsibilities to the counties. In the first few months immediately following its passage, the DMH has:
##Obtained federal approvals and Medi-Cal waivers, State authority, additional resources and technical assistance in areas related to implementation
##Established detailed requirements for the content of local three year expenditure plans
##Developed criteria and procedures for reporting of county and state performance outcomes
##Defined requirements for the maintenance of current State and local efforts to protect against supplanting existing programs and their funding streams
##Developed formulas for how funding will be divided or distributed among counties
##Determined how funding will flow to counties and set up the mechanics of distribution
##Established a 16 member Mental Health Services Oversight and Accountability Commission (MHSOAC), composed of elected State officials and Governor appointees, along with procedures for MHSOAC review of county planning efforts and oversight of DMH implementation
##Developed and published regulations and provide preliminary training to all counties on plan development and implementation requirements
The DMH has directed all counties to develop plans incorporating five essential concepts:
##Community collaboration
##Cultural competence
##Client/family-driven mental health system for older adults, adults and transition age youth and family-driven system of care for children and youth
##Wellness focus, which includes the concepts of recovery and resilience
##Integrated service experiences for clients and their families throughout their interactions with the mental health system
The DMH, in assuming and asserting its primacy over MHSA implementation, has dictated requirements for service delivery and supports as follows:
##Full Service Partnership (FSP) Funds - funds to provide necessary services and supports for initial populations
##General System Development Funds - funds to improve services and infrastructure
##Outreach and Engagement Funding - funds for those populations that are currently receiving little or no service
The MHSA stipulates that the California State Department of Mental Health (DMH) will contract with county mental health departments to develop and manage the implementation of its provisions. Oversight responsibility for MHSA implementation was handed over to the sixteen member Mental Health Services Oversight and Accountability Commission (MHSOAC) on July 7, 2005, when the commission first met.
In accordance with realignment, the DMH approves county three-year implementation plans, upon comment from the MHSOAC,[18] and passes programmatic responsibilities to the counties. In the first few months immediately following its passage, the DMH has:
Obtained federal approvals and Medi-Cal waivers, State authority, additional resources and technical assistance in areas related to implementation
Established detailed requirements for the content of local three year expenditure plans
Developed criteria and procedures for reporting of county and state performance outcomes
Defined requirements for the maintenance of current State and local efforts to protect against supplanting existing programs and their funding streams
Developed formulas for how funding will be divided or distributed among counties
Determined how funding will flow to counties and set up the mechanics of distribution
Established a 16 member Mental Health Services Oversight and Accountability Commission (MHSOAC), composed of elected State officials and Governor appointees, along with procedures for MHSOAC review of county planning efforts and oversight of DMH implementation
Developed and published regulations and provide preliminary training to all counties on plan development and implementation requirements
The DMH has directed all counties to develop plans incorporating five essential concepts:
Community collaboration
Cultural competence
Client/family-driven mental health system for older adults, adults and transition age youth and family-driven system of care for children and youth
Wellness focus, which includes the concepts of recovery and resilience
Integrated service experiences for clients and their families throughout their interactions with the mental health system
The DMH, in assuming and asserting its primacy over MHSA implementation, has dictated requirements for service delivery and supports as follows:
Full Service Partnership (FSP) Funds - funds to provide necessary services and supports for initial populations
General System Development Funds - funds to improve services and infrastructure
Outreach and Engagement Funding - funds for those populations that are currently receiving little or no service
The authors of the MHSA created the MHSOAC to reflect the consumer-oriented focus of the law, mandating at least two appointees with severe mental illness, two other family members of individuals with severe mental illness, and various other community representatives. This diverse commission holds the responsibility of approving county implementation plans, helping develop mental illness stigma-relieving strategies, and recommending service delivery improvements to the state on an as-needed basis. Whenever the commission identifies a critical issue related to the performance of a county mental health program, it may refer the issue to the DMH.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Mental_Health_Services_Act
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Also there would be oversight committee the money is being spent correctly.There is already oversight committees.The State of California Department of Public Health watches and regulates policies.On November 2004, voters in the U.S. state of California passed Proposition 63, the Mental Health Services Act (MHSA), which has been designed to expand and transform California’s county mental health service systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Mental_Health_Services_Act
Unfortunately, there is no point where the government no longer thinks it needs to increase it's power and ability to intervene...
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In my opinion, the act provides money to the state and the oversight if you read it carefully.
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Very heartless
There are people who believe the mentally ill are capable of taking care of themselves and fought to "protect their rights" by putting them back on the streets. Is that heartless?
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There are people who believe the mentally ill are capable of taking care of themselves and fought to "protect their rights" by putting them back on the streets. Is that heartless?
They cant take care of themselves. When I am helping the homeless for the Church half of these people do not know what planet they are on.
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I think that this topic has run it course. I cannot believe the inhumanity and callousness toward people who cannot defend themselves on this board. When your family member is clinically ill or commits suicide I hope that you feel the anguish and helplessness 54 million Americans go through each day. It makes me sick what is going on around here. People are playing politics instead of saving lives
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They cant take care of themselves. When I am helping the homeless for the Church half of these people do not know what planet they are on.
Ease down, my friend. You are both on the same side of the coin, just opposite edges.
You work with the Church (and :beer: to that. Wish more gave a crap and gave their time). Not my church, but still. Something people trust. The government is a different kettle of fish. Ever seen a government program that didn't get hijacked at some stage to make some politician look good and shore up votes?
You are endlessly and eternally right - mental illness is horrible and depression is the most creeping and creepy aspect of it. It sneaks up on you. It gets dismissed by your friends - "Oh, you are just feeling down, come out and have a few beers/meal/game of darts." People do self medicate with booze or drugs - not to feel better, but to simply not feel for a while. Right now you are - I hope - tailing off on the pain killers after your surgery. Do you know just how appealing that numbness and feeling of being disconnected is to a depression sufferer?
Pills don't work though as a full time measure. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort to fight through depression. I'd like to see something like the AA or recruiting stations. Good therapists, paid from the public purse, in walk in clinics. And the government keeps it's nose out (the AA part). No stigma if no one knows, right?
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I think that this topic has run it course. I cannot believe the inhumanity and callousness toward people who cannot defend themselves on this board. When your family member is clinically ill or commits suicide I hope that you feel the anguish and helplessness 54 million Americans go through each day. It makes me sick what is going on around here. People are playing politics instead of saving lives
Don't feed me that strawman b.s. I'm sorry to be so hard, but the fact of the matter is - personal admission here - I myself dealt with depression during my early twenties and flirted with the idea of suicide. But I didn't kill myself; I recognized that my feelings were "out there" and I went and got some help before my descent into the morass became irreversible. And I had a mere pittance of money and no insurance; I found a doctor who provided basic help for low cost and I took it upon myself to make sure I got, and took, the medication prescribed for me.
So don't try to bully me with my alleged lack of compassion just because I disagree with the idea that the government should be everybody's mental nanny.
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They cant take care of themselves. When I am helping the homeless for the Church half of these people do not know what planet they are on.
I took care of myself, thank you very much, and on my own initiative; I didn't need a mental nanny to do it for me.
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I took care of myself, thank you very much, and on my own initiative; I didn't need a mental nanny to do it for me.
People who are on the streets cant. That is why they need help. I double dare you to go to spend a day at the Fred Jordan Mission and see the homeless and mentally ill.
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Don't feed me that strawman b.s. I'm sorry to be so hard, but the fact of the matter is - personal admission here - I myself dealt with depression during my early twenties and flirted with the idea of suicide. But I didn't kill myself; I recognized that my feelings were "out there" and I went and got some help before my descent into the morass became irreversible. And I had a mere pittance of money and no insurance; I found a doctor who provided basic help for low cost and I took it upon myself to make sure I got, and took, the medication prescribed for me.
So don't try to bully me with my alleged lack of compassion just because I disagree with the idea that the government should be everybody's mental nanny.
You have no compassion. You are displaying it very well
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I took care of myself, thank you very much, and on my own initiative; I didn't need a mental nanny to do it for me.
You did. :beer:
Some can't.
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You did. :beer:
Some can't.
Some people cannot afford your help Oceander. Thumbs up, EC
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You have no compassion. You are displaying it very well
You can believe whatever tortured fallacy you want to. Unlike you, I am not about to endorse sending in the government group-think teams to "straighten" you out.
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You did. :beer:
Some can't.
Clearly. The question for discussion is this: should we, because some can't, force everyone into the government-run psychiatric ward, in the name of their own best interests?
That is the necessary end result of what's being proposed here: that because there are some who end up offing themselves rather than helping themselves, we must put everyone under suspicion of being mentally ill, and must examine them closely because we cannot know, ahead of time, who will, and who will not, turn out to be one of those who "can't help themselves."
Life is tragic. Government simply compounds the tragedy, it rarely, if ever ameliorates it.
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Clearly. The question for discussion is this: should we, because some can't, force everyone into the government-run psychiatric ward, in the name of their own best interests?
That is the necessary end result of what's being proposed here: that because there are some who end up offing themselves rather than helping themselves, we must put everyone under suspicion of being mentally ill, and must examine them closely because we cannot know, ahead of time, who will, and who will not, turn out to be one of those who "can't help themselves."
Life is tragic. Government simply compounds the tragedy, it rarely, if ever ameliorates it.
Nice try :laugh:
Lets start by de-stigmatizing depression. Your car is making funny noises, you take it to a mechanic. Your heating is doing odd things, you call in an engineer. Your heart is doing back flips in your chest - you go get that looked at, pronto. Why should mental illness be treated any differently?
Yet it is. It is something that no one will ever talk about.
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Nice try :laugh:
Lets start by de-stigmatizing depression. Your car is making funny noises, you take it to a mechanic. Your heating is doing odd things, you call in an engineer. Your heart is doing back flips in your chest - you go get that looked at, pronto. Why should mental illness be treated any differently?
Yet it is. It is something that no one will ever talk about.
:amen:
Maybe he should live on the streets and get a first point of view