The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on September 11, 2017, 11:43:26 pm
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GOP senators call on Bannon, Trump to lay off incumbents
By Jordain Carney - 09/11/17 07:18 PM EDT
Top Senate Republicans are firing back at Stephen Bannon amid reports that he is eyeing primary challenges to GOP incumbents who he believes haven't been supportive of President Trump, calling on both the president and his ousted adviser to leave elected Republicans alone.
"I wish they would focus on Democrats instead of Republicans," Sen. John Cornyn (Texas), the No. 2 Senate Republican, told reporters when asked about Bannon.
Sen. John Thune (S.D.), the No. 3 Senate Republican, added that the potential primary threats could make it harder for Republicans to hold onto their thin 52-seat majority despite a favorable 2018 map.
more
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/350162-gop-senators-call-on-bannon-trump-to-lay-off-incumbents
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Seems to me like they are starting to feel a tad uncomfortable.
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Seems to me like they are starting to feel a tad uncomfortable.
They're starting to realize that Trump and Bannon, et al, are trying to throw the 2018 elections to the democrats.
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I could be wrong but it seems to me the GOP is really gonna need those 'pain in the azz' Conservatives, soon, to block the Schumer/Pelosi agenda.
:eatdrink:
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Screw you establishment cretins. I hope you all go down.
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"I wish they would focus on Democrats instead of Republicans," Sen. John Cornyn (Texas), the No. 2 Senate Republican, told reporters...
We said the same thing about Boehner, McCain, Grahamnesty, McConnell and the whole sordid lot of Oligarchs running the Republican party the last two years. All their rage and ire was focused on Conservatives and nothing but kid gloves and love taps towards Democrats.
Payback's a bitch - even when it comes from someone I cannot stand.
I'm happy to watch Bannon and the GOP duke it out.
Will make our job to get Conservatives out of the Uniparty and into a solid third party a bit easier.
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They're starting to realize that Trump and Bannon, et al, are trying to throw the 2018 elections to the democrats.
Why would you say that? Oh, wait, I know why.
They are trying to primary Republican candidates who have been putting brakes on conservative agendas and replace them with better Republican candidates. How is that helping democrats.
A lot of these senators have been gliding along being re-elected after doing nothing. I think they should all be primaried.
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I could be wrong but it seems to me the GOP is really gonna need those 'pain in the azz' Conservatives, soon, to block the Schumer/Pelosi agenda.
:eatdrink:
Wait ... et tu, Corbe. I just see it that a few of the useless idiots should be challenged in the primaries. And by Republicans, but conservative ones.
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Why would you say that? Oh, wait, I know why.
They are trying to primary Republican candidates who have been putting brakes on conservative agendas and replace them with better Republican candidates. How is that helping democrats.
A lot of these senators have been gliding along being re-elected after doing nothing. I think they should all be primaried.
That would be a hell of a point @Emjay if Trump wasn't on record as wanting to primary members of the House Freedom Caucus, Bannon going after the RINO's that don't play well with Trump and the President targeting Conservatives, what could possible go wrong.
What doesn't kill us just makes us stronger.
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Steve Bunion needs to dry up.
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Not much of a Bannon fan, but I'm all for primarying them. Sit on your hands and you deserve to get booted out.
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Oceander wrote:
"They're starting to realize that Trump and Bannon, et al, are trying to throw the 2018 elections to the democrats."
Yep.
Jes' like they "threw" the 2016 one... ;)
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Screw you establishment cretins. I hope you all go down.
:amen: 888high58888
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Not much of a Bannon fan, but I'm all for primarying them. Sit on your hands and you deserve to get booted out.
I assure you that one of them will never get another vote from this household. John Cornyn can go straight to hell!
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Bunion is a sore barnacle on the hull of Trumps ass.
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I'm afraid Cornyn, like McCain is so Entrenched, only an Act of G_d can help US now.
To an earlier point made up thread.
We have done this before, just recently, the Tea Party, we Conservatives were very much involved with the process and vetting our own candidates, with an over 50% success rate.
I'd rather Bannon and Trumpbart stay as far away from our election process as possible, they are partially responsible for this CF we have now.
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Bannon is simply pimping loyalty to Trump via mob-tactics. He's not trying to primary liberal Republicans to fill the spot with Conservatives - he's targeting anyone who will not pledge fealty and be a Trump sycophant. Bannon nor Trump give a rat's ass if whom they back or whom they target for destruction; whether candidates be Conservatives or raving Liberal lunatics. All they care about is loyalty to Trump and pushing whatever Trump wants done at the moment he wants it done.
That is all.
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@INVAR can I post that over at Trumpbart? I have a throwaway account ready?
Too many places on the Net stifle free thought these days, more so than a mere few words (or a time in history).
Myst's place is generally an exception to the rule.
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"I wish they would focus on Democrats instead of Republicans," Sen. John Cornyn
Haha, seems Trump *is* focusing on the Democrats now!
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@INVAR can I post that over at Trumpbart? I have a throwaway account ready?
Too many places on the Net stifle free thought these days, more so than a mere few words (or a time in history).
Myst's place is generally an exception to the rule.
Post it wherever you like. Truth is truth. You are welcome to even take credit for the comment, I care not.
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That would be a hell of a point @Emjay if Trump wasn't on record as wanting to primary members of the House Freedom Caucus, Bannon going after the RINO's that don't play well with Trump and the President targeting Conservatives, what could possible go wrong.
What doesn't kill us just makes us stronger.
I don't think Bannon is going after members of the Freedom Caucus and I don't think Trump is targeting conservatives.
But like you always say, I could be wrong. If the incumbents can make a decent case for themselves, they will win. They have the advantage. Not sure it should just be handed to them though.
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I assure you that one of them will never get another vote from this household. John Cornyn can go straight to hell!
Nor this household. 888high58888
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Sen. John Thune (S.D.), the No. 3 Senate Republican, added that the potential primary threats could make it harder for Republicans to hold onto their thin 52-seat majority despite a favorable 2018 map.
What does it matter whether you keep your crummy majority or not Johnny? You guys can't get out of your own way. All of you assholes should be Primaried after 2 terms in office. Considering you never had a real job in your GD entire life Johnny, maybe you should go out into the real world and find out how it works.
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That would be a hell of a point @Emjay if Trump wasn't on record as wanting to primary members of the House Freedom Caucus, Bannon going after the RINO's that don't play well with Trump and the President targeting Conservatives, what could possible go wrong.
What doesn't kill us just makes us stronger.
I'm fine with getting rid of rinos that are up for election as well, but they must have viable replacements to support before they do that or they hand the spot to the Dems. It seems so short sighted to me.
They are so much about "loyalty" that they will likely glom on to anyone who blows up their skirt regardless of their convictions and beliefs. This isn't a private business (which is his only experience) where everyone sucks up to the boss, it's a situation where he should be surrounded with people who give him the cold hard facts.
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Until 'pragmatism' is soundly rejected, and the principles of Conservatism are lifted up, Loudly, proudly, and without quarter, All y'all are gonna keep getting what you're voting *for*.
MIKE DROP.
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Until 'pragmatism' is soundly rejected, and the principles of Conservatism are lifted up, Loudly, proudly, and without quarter, All y'all are gonna keep getting what you're voting *for*.
MIKE DROP.
BOOOYAH!
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3rtyerfHZ1qir45xo1_500.gif)
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I'm afraid Cornyn, like McCain is so Entrenched, only an Act of G_d can help US now.
God was busy so he sent Trump.
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Sen. John Thune (S.D.), the No. 3 Senate Republican, added that the potential primary threats could make it harder for Republicans to hold onto their thin 52-seat majority despite a favorable 2018 map.
What does it matter whether you keep your crummy majority or not Johnny? You guys can't get out of your own way. All of you assholes should be Primaried after 2 terms in office. Considering you never had a real job in your GD entire life Johnny, maybe you should go out into the real world and find out how it works.
Amen, @Frank Cannon !!
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I have tried my best to only vote for conservative republicans since I became a citizen, registered, and cast my first vote for Herbert Walker. I'll tell you, it's been hard letting go of my self identity as a republican.
Over the years I have been frustrated by McCain and others, especially in the senate. But, not until Trump came on the scene and had the audacity to rip the veneer from our politicians and media gatekeepers for all to see did I realize I had no choice.
It's not just about left or right anymore, it's about reining in an all powerful state and recognizing that republicans helped build this burgeoning bureaucracy.
So, I will give credit where credit is due. Worts and all, Donald Trump.
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. I'll tell you, it's been hard letting go of my self identity as a republican.
The party has a hard time letting go of me. Most of my junk mail consists of solicitations for donations to Republican candidates.
I left in 2012 when Romney was forced on us. Came back last year only to vote for Ted Cruz, but when he lost, I left again. Today, I don't care who is running, I will not go back to the Republican Party. If Cruz wants my vote for president again, he will have to run as an independent or third party.
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Trump has no ideology and is fine with cozying up to Democrats, especially if it gets him good press.
Republicans who won't kiss his rear are an offense to his ego, and therefore the real enemy.
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[...] But, it wasn't until Trump came on the scene and had the audacity to rip the veneer from our politicians and media gatekeepers for all to see, did I realize I had no choice. It's not just about left or right anymore, it's about reining in an all powerful state and recognizing that republicans helped build this burgeoning bureaucracy.
So, I will give credit where credit is due. Worts and all, Donald Trump.
Really, no offense meant @aligncare ... But if Trump showed you any damn thing... And if y'all didn't see it coming for years...
Then I encourage you to get your eyes checked.
And your ears as well, as Conservatives have been screaming it at the top of their lungs for a couple decades now.
I hit my limit a decade ago, the day Duncan Hunter withdrew, and I stepped off that Big 'R' bus. But I'd seen it coming long before then.
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God was busy so he sent Trump.
Troll level: trying hard but much to learn
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Troll level: trying hard but much to learn
It's obvious to me that the recent hurricanes obliterated the supply of sarcasm tags.
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The party has a hard time letting go of me. Most of my junk mail consists of solicitations for donations to Republican candidates.
I left in 2012 when Romney was forced on us. Came back last year only to vote for Ted Cruz, but when he lost, I left again. Today, I don't care who is running, I will not go back to the Republican Party. If Cruz wants my vote for president again, he will have to run as an independent or third party.
Peace, Applewood. You have just accepted defeat. Especially when you actually say you would not vote for Ted Cruz if he ran as a Republican. I hope you're just blowing off steam with that one.
The Republican party has been a disappointment this year and they have used Trump as a foil for their stubbornness and incompetence.
But it doesn't have to stay that way. We have a core of excellent conservatives and we can get more. Even a few more at a time will help enormously.
Much more do-able than dreaming about a third party which you would probably become disillusioned with in 3-2-1.
That's why I'm okay with making those incumbents defend themselves and earn the nomination.
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Today, I don't care who is running, I will not go back to the Republican Party. If Cruz wants my vote for president again, he will have to run as an independent or third party.
Dittos and AMEN. I'm of the same exact mindset.
The Republican Party is the party of the Oligarchy and hates Conservatives as much as or more than the Democrats do. If Conservatism is to remain viable - it must exist outside of the corrupted party duopoly at Mordor on the Potomac.
Conservatives who want my vote need to be in a a third party or I will not vote for them while they remain in the Republican party.
Enough is enough. I'm done and it's war. So, it's time to rescue as many from the clutches of liberals in the Republican party as possible and let the rest founder with the rest of the corrupt.
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The problem with the Republican party isn't conservatism, it is a lack thereof.
Run conservative candidates and the job would get done.
I believe they would get elected.
Tea Party did have successes, as Corbe mentioned earlier.
Cruz, Lee, and who else in the senate?
Sometimes Rubio and Paul (but Paul is more libertarian, which would still be for small Gov't )?
Outside of the freedom caucus in the house?
I remember when Paul Ryan was supposedly this great Fiscal Hawk.
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Peace, Applewood. You have just accepted defeat. Especially when you actually say you would not vote for Ted Cruz if he ran as a Republican. I hope you're just blowing off steam with that one.
The Republican party has been a disappointment this year and they have used Trump as a foil for their stubbornness and incompetence.
But it doesn't have to stay that way. We have a core of excellent conservatives and we can get more. Even a few more at a time will help enormously.
Much more do-able than dreaming about a third party which you would probably become disillusioned with in 3-2-1.
That's why I'm okay with making those incumbents defend themselves and earn the nomination.
Yeah, those are the ones that Trump threatened to primary.
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The only one named in the article is Flake and he seems to be a good candidate to primary.
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The only one named in the article is Flake and he seems to be a good candidate to primary.
Is Flake part of the core of excellent conservatives we have that you were talking about?
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Trump has no ideology and is fine with cozying up to Democrats, especially if it gets him good press.
Republicans who won't kiss his rear are an offense to his ego, and therefore the real enemy.
A fair description, but Pres. Trump would sign any bill the Pubs put on his desk and call it the greatest victory ever. So why can't the Pubs take this generational opportunity and actually put the bills on the President's desk for him to sign?
I think the root of the problem is the Pub party has no discipline. There are no consequences for going against the party on major issues. I don't see the Pubs ever developing any party discipline until there are real consequences for lying to their voters and taking money from their voters on false pretenses. The only way this happens is to stop voting for the liars and cheats.
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Is Flake part of the core of excellent conservatives we have that you were talking about?
The only core that Flake is part of is that of a rotten apple in the bottom of a dumpster. He is a greasy piece of shit.
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I have tried my best to only vote for conservative republicans since I became a citizen, registered, and cast my first vote for Herbert Walker. I'll tell you, it's been hard letting go of my self identity as a republican.
Over the years I have been frustrated by McCain and others, especially in the senate. But, not until Trump came on the scene and had the audacity to rip the veneer from our politicians and media gatekeepers for all to see did I realize I had no choice.
It's not just about left or right anymore, it's about reining in an all powerful state and recognizing that republicans helped build this burgeoning bureaucracy.
So, I will give credit where credit is due. Worts and all, Donald Trump.
Thanks for your service.
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What does it matter whether you keep your crummy majority or not Johnny?
If you think things woukd be the same with a Dem Congress....
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If you think things woukd be the same with a Dem Congress....
Right, because voting in the same pieces of human filth like Flake, McConnell et al have been a real winner for the country. Get a effing clue.
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If you think things woukd be the same with a Dem Congress....
The problem is we have metastasizing cancers in the country such as the debt, trade deficits, immigration, health care that keep growing even if nothing is done.
The Dems would accelerate it faster, but the GOP sitting on it's hands only slows the inevitable.
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I agree. Lay them all off.....
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The only core that Flake is part of is that of a rotten apple in the bottom of a dumpster. He is a greasy piece of shit.
Yeah, that was kinda my point, I was just taking the scenic route to get there. The core of excellent conservatives mentioned are the ones that had previously been threatened to be primaried.
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Until 'pragmatism' is soundly rejected, and the principles of Conservatism are lifted up, Loudly, proudly, and without quarter, All y'all are gonna keep getting what you're voting *for*.
MIKE DROP.
:amen:
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Right, because voting in the same pieces of human filth like Flake, McConnell et al have been a real winner for the country. Get a effing clue.
I know, I know...you'd have ditched Churchill because we weren't in Berlin in '41...
But in the real world, we sometimes have to play with an imperfect hand, because the alternative is worse.
Does that mean we shouldn't primary Flake or other Establishment types? No. But we have to be smart and not put in Chris Coons, etc.
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I know, I know...you'd have ditched Churchill because we weren't in Berlin in '41...
But in the real world, we sometimes have to play with an imperfect hand, because the alternative is worse.
Does that mean we shouldn't primary Flake or other Establishment types? No. But we have to be smart and not put in Chris Coons, etc.
Or you can not buy into the sham at all and send pols backing every term or give them the threat of it. As for what the Rats do who gives a shit. Coons would have won that state no matter what. Know why? Because it is a Rat state. Even if his challenger won, the next second the losers in DE had a chance to boot the R out they would have. Beyond that the Rats haven't been doing to well in other parts of the country the last 8 years, now have they.
Rolling over for losers like Flake just so McConnell can sit in a better office while the rest of the country continues down the road to ruin in patently stupid establishment bullshit. Feel free to keep sending your checks to the effing RNC to prop up their losers. In the meantime I will be doing everything I can to blow it up. They serve no purpose in my life.
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A fair description, but Pres. Trump would sign any bill the Pubs put on his desk and call it the greatest victory ever. So why can't the Pubs take this generational opportunity and actually put the bills on the President's desk for him to sign?
I think the root of the problem is the Pub party has no discipline. There are no consequences for going against the party on major issues. I don't see the Pubs ever developing any party discipline until there are real consequences for lying to their voters and taking money from their voters on false pretenses. The only way this happens is to stop voting for the liars and cheats.
@bilo
Oh, I agree that the Republicans are useless. It's a sick irony that this potentially fantastic opportunity is being squandered by those invertebrates. But Trump is just as much to blame.
I personally don't think those consequences will ever happen, will least not enough to matter. There are too many voters willing to come back for more punishment and to support Republicans no matter what. And the Repubs know it.
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"Puh-leaze, massa' Bannon, don't fling us in dat brier patch!"
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Peace, Applewood. You have just accepted defeat. Especially when you actually say you would not vote for Ted Cruz if he ran as a Republican. I hope you're just blowing off steam with that one.
The Republican party has been a disappointment this year and they have used Trump as a foil for their stubbornness and incompetence.
But it doesn't have to stay that way. We have a core of excellent conservatives and we can get more. Even a few more at a time will help enormously.
Much more do-able than dreaming about a third party which you would probably become disillusioned with in 3-2-1.
That's why I'm okay with making those incumbents defend themselves and earn the nomination.
What I've accepted is that the Republican Party will never be conservative again. These days, it's not much different from the liberal Democrats.
You say the party has been a disappointment THIS YEAR? No, it's gone on a lot longer than that. Republicans make promises to voters they have no intention of keeping. But we voters are lulled into believing that this time it will be different. And of course, it never is.
Throughout the Obama regime, we were told that the party could do nothing because the Democrats were in charge. But then Republicans took control of both houses of congress and starting in January of this year, they took over the presidency too. A perfect opportunity at last to finally do what they promised the voters. But 9 months into this year, they have accomplished nothing. Why? Well, I don't think they ever had any intention of keeping those promises. They are liars, cheats and frauds just like the Democrats.
It is long past time to develop a real third party in this country. Unfortunately, it seems people like you are stuck on the 2-party system. Where is it written that we have to have just 2 parties? Why do we have to be stuck today with choices that aren't really any choice at all.
You're right. There are some conservative voices left. But those voices are drowned out by the bleating of the liberal Republican sheep. There really aren't that many true conservatives out there. There are plenty of phonies. We have elected quite a few of them. They either lied about their ideology or once they were elected, they were lured away from whatever principles they may have had with the promise of money and power. Anyone who really is a conservative needs to break away from the liberal Republican Party. They aren't going to change the party. If anything, the party might change them.
I'm tired of business as usual. I'm tired of promises that won't be kept. No, thank you. I will stay as a registered independent. Sooner or later, the Republican Party will go the way of the Whigs. This country doesn't need 2 liberal parties. One will have to go and more likely, the one to go will be the Republican Party. Good riddance.
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I support federalism and don't need Trump or Bannon attempting to stand in the way of it.
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What I've accepted is that the Republican Party will never be conservative again. These days, it's not much different from the liberal Democrats.
You say the party has been a disappointment THIS YEAR? No, it's gone on a lot longer than that. Republicans make promises to voters they have no intention of keeping. But we voters are lulled into believing that this time it will be different. And of course, it never is.
Throughout the Obama regime, we were told that the party could do nothing because the Democrats were in charge. But then Republicans took control of both houses of congress and starting in January of this year, they took over the presidency too. A perfect opportunity at last to finally do what they promised the voters. But 9 months into this year, they have accomplished nothing. Why? Well, I don't think they ever had any intention of keeping those promises. They are liars, cheats and frauds just like the Democrats.
It is long past time to develop a real third party in this country. Unfortunately, it seems people like you are stuck on the 2-party system. Where is it written that we have to have just 2 parties? Why do we have to be stuck today with choices that aren't really any choice at all.
You're right. There are some conservative voices left. But those voices are drowned out by the bleating of the liberal Republican sheep. There really aren't that many true conservatives out there. There are plenty of phonies. We have elected quite a few of them. They either lied about their ideology or once they were elected, they were lured away from whatever principles they may have had with the promise of money and power. Anyone who really is a conservative needs to break away from the liberal Republican Party. They aren't going to change the party. If anything, the party might change them.
I'm tired of business as usual. I'm tired of promises that won't be kept. No, thank you. I will stay as a registered independent. Sooner or later, the Republican Party will go the way of the Whigs. This country doesn't need 2 liberal parties. One will have to go and more likely, the one to go will be the Republican Party. Good riddance.
@Emjay
@Applewood you are ABSOLUTELY right in every detail! I wasted forty plus years of my life working in the bowels of the Republican party but that ended forever last June. A party that cannot even follow it's own rules at it's national convention is a lost cause that will not receive another second of my time of cent of my money!
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It is long past time to develop a real third party in this country. Unfortunately, it seems people like you are stuck on the 2-party system. Where is it written that we have to have just 2 parties? Why do we have to be stuck today with choices that aren't really any choice at all.
Duverger's Law. With three or more parties, two of them can gang up on the third to destroy it.
Let's use the 2013 shutdown as a benchmark. Say that we have about 50-50 Democrats to Republicans now. About 15 sided with Cruz on the budget standoff over Obamacare, so let's assume they're the 15% of Americans who would associated with this conservative party. So, if there's a split, it becomes 50% Democrat, 35% Republican, and 15% new party.
Now let's assume that the new party refuses to budge on principle and considers the other two a "uniparty." The Republicans take it seriously and make deals with the Democrats, whose sole goal in life is to maintain power. So now you're back to a two-party system, but now the progressive uniparty has 85% and your new, pure, conservative party is now at a literally useless 15%. As the uniparty hijacks the system, begins controlling the message, and discredits the "fringe" new party and silly notions like there not being a right to other people's goods or services, fewer people take it seriously and that 15% drops, in short order, to zero.
You now have a progressive, socialist state with one party rule, making the situation worse.
A third party should be a last resort when nobody represents the truth.
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Duverger's Law. With three or more parties, two of them can gang up on the third to destroy it.
You cannot destroy principles. Corruption is employed to ensure those with principles are prohibited from being in a position of power. That is one definition of tyranny.
Now let's assume that the new party refuses to budge on principle and considers the other two a "uniparty." The Republicans take it seriously and make deals with the Democrats, whose sole goal in life is to maintain power. So now you're back to a two-party system, but now the progressive uniparty has 85% and your new, pure, conservative party is now at a literally useless 15%.
That is precisely where we are already at.
No harm comes from separating oneself from corruption and maintaining and promoting the principles the other two parties have soundly rejected in favor of embracing Statism. You are looking at all of this backwards and attempting to suggest political power is a top-on-down procedure relegated to voting for a monarchy that gives people what they want and all we have to do is keep voting for the monarchy and one day the right people will do something that benefits liberty.
Doesn't work that way. We've devolved to a pure mobocracy. If the people want Socialism and Statism, they shall have it - and this is indeed what they want as long as they get to cover it up in their own brand of chocolate sauce.
You now have a progressive, socialist state with one party rule, making the situation worse.
We are already there. Wake up and look around.
A third party should be a last resort when nobody represents the truth.
Nobody in either party currently represents 'the truth'. If you do not see the necessity for a third party now, you never will because you will continue to make this same exact excuse cycle after cycle after cycle until one day you actually wake up to realize we went full Soviet right under your nose.
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What I've accepted is that the Republican Party will never be conservative again.
It never really was in the first place. Reagan paved it into a home for Conservatism, but only among the grassroots that the party has demonstrated it holds in utter contempt.
It is imposible for it to be a Conservative party ever again given how they have rewritten the rules in the last several sets of conventions. Conservatives are out. Told to get in line, or get punched in the nose and told to leave by the party leadership itself.
These days, it's not much different from the liberal Democrats.
They are worse. They lie to their base and continue to insist they are Conservative while actually imposing Obama's agenda themselves.
It is long past time to develop a real third party in this country. Unfortunately, it seems people like you are stuck on the 2-party system.
A perfect example of that is posted above.
There are some conservative voices left. But those voices are drowned out by the bleating of the liberal Republican sheep. There really aren't that many true conservatives out there. There are plenty of phonies. We have elected quite a few of them. They either lied about their ideology or once they were elected, they were lured away from whatever principles they may have had with the promise of money and power. Anyone who really is a conservative needs to break away from the liberal Republican Party. They aren't going to change the party. If anything, the party might change them.
AMEN! and AMEN!!!!
Exactly correct. Remaining in corruption for poet's sake only guarantees being corrupted.
This country doesn't need 2 liberal parties.
Sure it does. The shell game and con has to continue for a little while longer. One party is Marxist/Communist and the other party will be Nationalist Socialist Populist, both will continue to declare themselves either "progressive" or 'Conservative" when neither of them are either definition.
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Duverger's Law. With three or more parties, two of them can gang up on the third to destroy it.
Let's use the 2013 shutdown as a benchmark. Say that we have about 50-50 Democrats to Republicans now. About 15 sided with Cruz on the budget standoff over Obamacare, so let's assume they're the 15% of Americans who would associated with this conservative party. So, if there's a split, it becomes 50% Democrat, 35% Republican, and 15% new party.
Now let's assume that the new party refuses to budge on principle and considers the other two a "uniparty." The Republicans take it seriously and make deals with the Democrats, whose sole goal in life is to maintain power. So now you're back to a two-party system, but now the progressive uniparty has 85% and your new, pure, conservative party is now at a literally useless 15%. As the uniparty hijacks the system, begins controlling the message, and discredits the "fringe" new party and silly notions like there not being a right to other people's goods or services, fewer people take it seriously and that 15% drops, in short order, to zero.
You now have a progressive, socialist state with one party rule, making the situation worse.
A third party should be a last resort when nobody represents the truth.
Trump would have been a good third party candidate because he appealed to the masses. Reminds me of the great Savior, H. Ross perot. Perot gave us 8 years of Bill Clinton.
Our best bet is to work within the party and try to move it more to the right. We have elections in 2018 and 2020 which would enable us to do that if we would get behind a conservative candidate ... and, yes, primary the do nothings.
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Trump would have been a good third party candidate because he appealed to the masses. Reminds me of the great Savior, H. Ross perot. Perot gave us 8 years of Bill Clinton.
Our best bet is to work within the party and try to move it more to the right. We have elections in 2018 and 2020 which would enable us to do that if we would get behind a conservative candidate ... and, yes, primary the do nothings.
63+ Million Americans voted for President Trump.
If he were to declare himself the head of the Constitution Party, every single voter would follow him.
That, my FRiend, would make the [fill-in-the-blank] GOP candidate, the Third Party spoiler.
The Republican Party will commit hari kari if they keep this sh*t up.
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Our best bet is to work within the party and try to move it more to the right.
Been practicing that insipid insanity for three decades plus.
It doesn't work. It will never work. The rules were rewritten in the last 3 cycles to ensure that never happens.
But, please - continue practicing insanity if it helps you sleep at night.
I'm done and finished with your failed statist party.
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63+ Million Americans voted for President Trump.
If he were to declare himself the head of the Constitution Party, every single voter would follow him.
That, my FRiend, would make the [fill-in-the-blank] GOP candidate, the Third Party spoiler.
The Republican Party will commit hari kari if they keep this sh*t up.
Absolutely false.
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Absolutely false.
No Trump voter is going to change their mind.
We chose him...an outsider among 16 others.
This entire propaganda HATE/RACIST campaign is to rile up the great unwashed masses in the DEM Party who didn't get off their asses to vote.
Nothing more than that.
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No Trump voter is going to change their mind.
Wrong.
Many pulled for the big red 'R'
Many were 'Anyone but Hillary'
There are no principles behind it.
Y'all are united in pragmatism, which doesn't translate into greater things.
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63+ Million Americans voted for President Trump.
If he were to declare himself the head of the Constitution Party, every single voter would follow him.
That, my FRiend, would make the [fill-in-the-blank] GOP candidate, the Third Party spoiler.
The Republican Party will commit hari kari if they keep this sh*t up.
@DCPatriot
I wouldn't follow him.
How would he "declare" himself head of the Constitution Party? Divine right?
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63+ Million Americans voted for President Trump.
If he were to declare himself the head of the Constitution Party, every single voter would follow him.
That, my FRiend, would make the [fill-in-the-blank] GOP candidate, the Third Party spoiler.
The Republican Party will commit hari kari if they keep this sh*t up.
Actually millions voted against Hillary, the lesser of two evil thing. Unless he faces another Hillary, if he even makes it that far, he'll be one and done.
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@DCPatriot
I wouldn't follow him.
How would he "declare" himself head of the Constitution Party? Divine right?
@CatherineofAragon
The Constitution Party, unlike others, has means testing... Anyone can join the party, but to run for office, you have to enjoin their beliefs.
I do not believe the Constitution Party would have him.
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63+ Million Americans voted for President Trump.
If he were to declare himself the head of the Constitution Party, every single voter would follow him.
That, my FRiend, would make the [fill-in-the-blank] GOP candidate, the Third Party spoiler.
The Republican Party will commit hari kari if they keep this sh*t up.
You're kidding. That was satire, right? Sarcasm?
Trump can declare himself to be anything he pleases..... that won't make it so AND it won't make people that know better (not you, apparently) follow him blindly and unquestionably.
Catch.... a..... clue.
His kissy face dinner with Chucky & Nancy tonight will make history all right. But it won't be the kind of history people like you will be wanting.
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63+ Million Americans voted for President Trump.
If he were to declare himself the head of the Constitution Party, every single voter would follow him.
That, my FRiend, would make the [fill-in-the-blank] GOP candidate, the Third Party spoiler.
The Republican Party will commit hari kari if they keep this sh*t up.
Waidaminit! Is this like him being able to shoot someone in Times Square?
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You're kidding. That was satire, right? Sarcasm?
Trump can declare himself to be anything he pleases..... that won't make it so AND it won't make people that know better (not you, apparently) follow him blindly and unquestionably.
Catch.... a..... clue.
His kissy face dinner with Chucky & Nancy tonight will make history all right. But it won't be the kind of history people like you will be wanting.
What he's saying is that Trump could now run as a Democrat and they'd vote for him. What he doesn't realize is he's was already there.
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Waidaminit! Is this like him being able to shoot someone in Times Square?
Nah....nothing like that. It was Fifth Avenue (big/long street). He's got a LOT more range than just Times Square! lolol
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No Trump voter is going to change their mind.
We chose him...an outsider among 16 others.
This entire propaganda HATE/RACIST campaign is to rile up the great unwashed masses in the DEM Party who didn't get off their asses to vote.
Nothing more than that.
I just have to laugh every time some Trump worshipper calls the consummate insider an outsider.
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Duverger's Law. With three or more parties, two of them can gang up on the third to destroy it.
Let's use the 2013 shutdown as a benchmark. Say that we have about 50-50 Democrats to Republicans now. About 15 sided with Cruz on the budget standoff over Obamacare, so let's assume they're the 15% of Americans who would associated with this conservative party. So, if there's a split, it becomes 50% Democrat, 35% Republican, and 15% new party.
Now let's assume that the new party refuses to budge on principle and considers the other two a "uniparty." The Republicans take it seriously and make deals with the Democrats, whose sole goal in life is to maintain power. So now you're back to a two-party system, but now the progressive uniparty has 85% and your new, pure, conservative party is now at a literally useless 15%. As the uniparty hijacks the system, begins controlling the message, and discredits the "fringe" new party and silly notions like there not being a right to other people's goods or services, fewer people take it seriously and that 15% drops, in short order, to zero.
You now have a progressive, socialist state with one party rule, making the situation worse.
A third party should be a last resort when nobody represents the truth.
Then why do parliamentary democracies have more than two parties?
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What he's saying is that Trump could now ran as a Democrat and they'd vote for him. What he doesn't realize is he's was already there.
Yeah.... and as I recall, back during the GOP primary....it was Democrats that were ""crossing over"" and voting for Trump....
just like they did when McLame McCain was running for pres.
Hmmm.....
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Nah....nothing like that. It was Fifth Avenue (big/long street). He's got a LOT more range than just Times Square! lolol
Hah, mea culpa, wrong NY landmark. Can't blame a Southron for getting that part wrong. :)
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63+ Million Americans voted for President Trump.
If he were to declare himself the head of the Constitution Party, every single voter would follow him.
That, my FRiend, would make the [fill-in-the-blank] GOP candidate, the Third Party spoiler.
The Republican Party will commit hari kari if they keep this sh*t up.
Did you have an accident and bump your head recently? If not, you need professional help badly.
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@CatherineofAragon
The Constitution Party, unlike others, has means testing... Anyone can join the party, but to run for office, you have to enjoin their beliefs.
I do not believe the Constitution Party would have him.
@roamer_1
Means testing is one thing, but "declaring himself head"? I had enough of that crap with Henry in the 1500s...
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@roamer_1
Means testing is one thing, but "declaring himself head"? I had enough of that crap with Henry in the 1500s...
@CatherineofAragon
Right... The point being, the Constitution Party wouldn't have him. They would not let him soil their name. He can say he's the Queen of England... That don't make it so...
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His kissy face dinner with Chucky & Nancy tonight will make history all right. But it won't be the kind of history people like you will be wanting.
He has already convinced himself that no matter what his political messiah does - it is all good with him.
No matter what. Trump is his guy and he can do no wrong because he's Trump.
Obama's acolytes cannot hold a candle in blind devotion to what I witness from rabid Trump supporters.
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And Trump can do no right with way too many people here who have a knee-jerk reaction to everything.
All in all, the 1500's were hell.
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And Trump can do no right with way too many people here who have a knee-jerk reaction to everything.
That is false. Nearly everyone here has given him credit where it's due. Even me - And I am among the most strident against him.
So stop.
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And Trump can do no right with way too many people here who have a knee-jerk reaction to everything.
All in all, the 1500's were hell.
Sorry my dear but you are just plain FOS here.
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Though I would proudly wear the NT label (whatever that is) @Emjay
There are many, many Briefers that are neither full blown AT or NT and don't like the broad assertions.
9 Months after the election, surely we've moved beyond that binary argument, being an old programmer I would suggest Octal or Hexadecimal.
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Please, please, massa Trump...
... don' be derailin' our gravy train!
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Emjay wrote:
"Trump would have been a good third party candidate because he appealed to the masses"
Sorry, but you're not seeing the forest through the trees.
Donald Trump WAS a "third party candidate" -- who cunningly stole the horse from the Republican party's stable and rode it to the White House. The first to do so in American history.
And that's why the Republican elites have been unwilling to lay their political careers on the line for him since.
But they better not play their hand to openly.
He might just do it one more time in 2020!
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If there are any deep fractures in the GOP to be exploited by Conservatives (fools errand, I know), they wont manifest themselves until after the midterms and the end of Trump's second year, but it will free up some major political talent. IMHO
The Tea Party came into existence in less time and made a difference.
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And Trump can do no right with way too many people here who have a knee-jerk reaction to everything.
Excuse you, but some of your fellow ardent Trump militant supporters have told us directly upon our thumbs up - that any vocal agreement we may have for something Trump does well that we approve of is unwelcome and not wanted, because we are not Trump supporters and only 'fair weather friends'.
I guess this is so the trump militant can continue to accuse us of saying Trump can do no right as some kind of defense when we point out Trump's liberal wrongheadedness.
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@DCPatriot
I wouldn't follow him.
How would he "declare" himself head of the Constitution Party? Divine right?
You didn't vote for him, to begin with. No way would I believe such a thing.
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Excuse you, but some of your fellow ardent Trump militant supporters have told us directly upon our thumbs up - that any vocal agreement we may have for something Trump does well that we approve of is unwelcome and not wanted, because we are not Trump supporters and only 'fair weather friends'.
I guess this is so the trump militant can continue to accuse us of saying Trump can do no right as some kind of defense when we point out Trump's liberal wrongheadedness.
That is exactly why they do it. We've had several threads recently where they show up to crap on a good time because they hate seeing everyone get along.
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Though I would proudly wear the NT label (whatever that is) @Emjay
There are many, many Briefers that are neither full blown AT or NT and don't like the broad assertions.
9 Months after the election, surely we've moved beyond that binary argument, being an old programmer I would suggest Octal or Hexadecimal.
Sorry, my friend, but we are, sadly enough, in the exact same place we were 9 months ago. We have a few true believers and many more NT'ers.
If Trump does anything people like, it's always viewed suspiciously.
Please done try to deny that because it's totally obvious every single day here. I don't know what Octal of Hexadecimal are but at least you didn't suggest prozac or say I was full of bovine excrement.
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That is false. Nearly everyone here has given him credit where it's due. Even me - And I am among the most strident against him.
So stop.
When I see any of 'you people' giving Trump wholehearted credit for anything without some snide suspicion or caveat, I will stop.
I'm worried about Trump, myself, but I see no point in the constant bashing at this stage in the game. Maybe in 2019, you could try.
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Sorry, my friend, but we are, sadly enough, in the exact same place we were 9 months ago. We have a few true believers and many more NT'ers.
If Trump does anything people like, it's always viewed suspiciously.
Please done try to deny that because it's totally obvious every single day here. I don't know what Octal of Hexadecimal are but at least you didn't suggest prozac or say I was full of bovine excrement.
Do you still honestly believe @Emjay that the NT'ers here far out number the AT'ers? I just don't see it, (and I'm here a lot).
This Forum is very well balanced (compared to others I'm on) and it is those here that are in neither camp that make it interesting and really wish us fanatics would just drop it and get a life and I don't blame them.
Edited to add I would never suggest anything to do with you is BS, but don't be to quick to discount the advantages of Prozac in everyday life.
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Been practicing that insipid insanity for three decades plus.
It doesn't work. It will never work. The rules were rewritten in the last 3 cycles to ensure that never happens.
But, please - continue practicing insanity if it helps you sleep at night.
I'm done and finished with your failed statist party.
And you think third parties, which have also existed in that time frame, will work? They have an even worse track record.
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When I see any of 'you people' giving Trump wholehearted credit for anything without some snide suspicion or caveat, I will stop.
I'm worried about Trump, myself, but I see no point in the constant bashing at this stage in the game. Maybe in 2019, you could try.
Maybe that might happen when some of 'you people' quit the the attacks on a certain party that ran against Trump, no matter what he does. But we see things differently, I don't see constant bashing, there is a mix of bashing, legitimate criticism and if not praise, at least positive recognition when deserved.
Maybe just maybe if we all got together in a circle and sang like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWKznrEjJK4
No, we're all too different.
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When I see any of 'you people' giving Trump wholehearted credit for anything without some snide suspicion or caveat, I will stop.
I'm worried about Trump, myself, but I see no point in the constant bashing at this stage in the game. Maybe in 2019, you could try.
@Emjay Awesome!
Great news. I've been waiting for this.
In fact, there are a whole bunch there, so you don't have to limit it to just one of "us people".
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,273463.0.html
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(http://delivery.gettyimages.com/xr/138217157.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=3&d=77BFBA49EF8789215AB089EE596C6588E9F087986E2749D7F66C8B2FF5A0BC55A52507F5B068A94BE30A760B0D811297)
"Wa Happan!"
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When I see any of 'you people' giving Trump wholehearted credit for anything without some snide suspicion or caveat, I will stop.
He's a habitual liar, a slanderer. Of course I will always view him with suspicion. That is never going to go away, because he will continue to do it.
I'm worried about Trump, myself, but I see no point in the constant bashing at this stage in the game. Maybe in 2019, you could try.
I have every expectation he will continue to provide ample opportunity for criticism, and I will call him on it every time.
I can't stand liberals and he is one. And to my dying day I will stand against him and his. They are the ones calling themselves 'conservatives', and as a Conservative, I intend to proclaim the clear difference - with every bit of snark and derision I can muster.
The 'I told you sos' will keep coming, and if it is salt in the wound, so be it. All y'all are the ones trying to lower standards and discard principles in the name of pragmatism and then call it conservatism. I am here to twist the knife and make it hurt so that next time you'll know better. There is a reason why you don't mess with principle things, and the examples will keep on coming, because an unprincipled lout is at the helm.
Note that I fully expect all y'all to continue down your pragmatic path - The character it takes to stand for something isn't born in a day - But I will rise again and again against your attempts to call it a conservative thing. It ain't right.
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He's a habitual liar, a slanderer. Of course I will always view him with suspicion. That is never going to go away, because he will continue to do it.
I have every expectation he will continue to provide ample opportunity for criticism, and I will call him on it every time.
I can't stand liberals and he is one. And to my dying day I will stand against him and his. They are the ones calling themselves 'conservatives', and as a Conservative, I intend to proclaim the clear difference - with every bit of snark and derision I can muster.
The 'I told you sos' will keep coming, and if it is salt in the wound, so be it. All y'all are the ones trying to lower standards and discard principles in the name of pragmatism and then call it conservatism. I am here to twist the knife and make it hurt so that next time you'll know better. There is a reason why you don't mess with principle things, and the examples will keep on coming, because an unprincipled lout is at the helm.
Note that I fully expect all y'all to continue down your pragmatic path - The character it takes to stand for something isn't born in a day - But I will rise again and again against your attempts to call it a conservative thing. It ain't right.
Trump is the same lying liberal garbage he was the day before he decided to run as a republican. I really don't care if his pets want to accept that reality or not, they'll eat every ounce of blame for the result.
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Trump is the same lying liberal garbage he was the day before he decided to run as a republican. I really don't care if his pets want to accept that reality or not, they'll eat every ounce of blame for the result.
I will fully concur with that analysis.
:beer: :seeya:
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And you think third parties, which have also existed in that time frame, will work? They have an even worse track record.
Irrelevant to me.
I will no longer vote for anyone in a party that holds me and my principles in contempt while governing as a stalwart enemy to them.
If you think liberty is just another sporting event to play using politicians without dire consequences to freedom, by all means - root for your team for power's sake.
You will get to enjoy more of the same shit we have been served the last few years with additional helpings of Statism and Socialism.
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Do you still honestly believe @Emjay that the NT'ers here far out number the AT'ers? I just don't see it, (and I'm here a lot).
This Forum is very well balanced (compared to others I'm on) and it is those here that are in neither camp that make it interesting and really wish us fanatics would just drop it and get a life and I don't blame them.
Edited to add I would never suggest anything to do with you is BS, but don't be to quick to discount the advantages of Prozac in everyday life.
Well, yes. I honestly do see that. There are very few fanatic Trump supporters and I'm amazed they stay because they are verbally abused all the time.
There are people who claim to be in neither camp but they are just NT'ers at heart.
But I agree that if we all agreed, it would be no fun.
The only drugs I resort to are vitamins and Tylenol and a light beer occasionally.
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When I see any of 'you people' giving Trump wholehearted credit for anything without some snide suspicion or caveat, I will stop.
I'm worried about Trump, myself, but I see no point in the constant bashing at this stage in the game. Maybe in 2019, you could try.
There's a number of things he's done that nearly all, if not all, of us have supported. I don't think you can find anyone here that hasn't praised something he's done.
But there is a "but".
When someone lies to your face repeatedly, trust has to be earned back. The more they lie the more difficult it is for them to restore any meaningful trust. Every time there's been a spark of trust developing he's done something to extinguish it, and then some. There's a long history of sleaze and lies from Trump long before he ran as a Republican. He's never apologized or asked for forgiveness for any of his actions. That history speaks for itself regardless of the random acts of "conservative" deeds that come our way from time to time. I know you know exactly what I'm talking about.
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Emjay wrote:
"Trump would have been a good third party candidate because he appealed to the masses"
Sorry, but you're not seeing the forest through the trees.
Donald Trump WAS a "third party candidate" -- who cunningly stole the horse from the Republican party's stable and rode it to the White House. The first to do so in American history.
And that's why the Republican elites have been unwilling to lay their political careers on the line for him since.
But they better not play their hand to openly.
He might just do it one more time in 2020!
Sweet. Nice imagery. And if I may play, Trump was pulling a wagonload of others – unaffiliated voters, disaffected democrat voters, third-party voters, non-voters, apathetic voters, first-time voters, geeks and freaks and everything in between!
Yeah, Trump was crazy, crazy like a fox. He owned Reince Priebus from the moment he announced.
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That is false. Nearly everyone here has given him credit where it's due. Even me - And I am among the most strident against him.
So stop.
As @Bigun once said.... "You're so FOS, your eyes are brown!" :smokin:
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...in the very sentence in which he claims to call balls and strikes, this: "And I am among the most strident against him. :silly:
How'd you like to overhear the umpire uttering that pant load as you walk up to the plate?
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...in the very sentence in which he claims to call balls and strikes, this: "And I am among the most strident against him. :silly:
How'd you like to overhear the umpire uttering that pant load as you walk up to the plate?
@roamer_1 is one of the most rabid NTs in the 'House'
They've become caricatures of themselves.
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@roamer_1 is one of the most rabid NTs in the 'House'
They've become caricatures of themselves.
I think the Trump faithful are the caricatures.
So what will the explanation be for Trump's betrayal of his base on the immigration issue? That he was forced into a deal with the Democrats because the Republicans won't cooperate?
I'm sure Trump's propaganda ministry will come up with a "reasonable explanation."
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Excuse you, but some of your fellow ardent Trump militant supporters have told us directly upon our thumbs up - that any vocal agreement we may have for something Trump does well that we approve of is unwelcome and not wanted, because we are not Trump supporters and only 'fair weather friends'.
I guess this is so the trump militant can continue to accuse us of saying Trump can do no right as some kind of defense when we point out Trump's liberal wrongheadedness.
@INVAR
I think I missed that. In other words, they said that giving Trump credit when deserved is meaningless? Even though one of their main complaints has been our supposed failure to do that?
See, this is why I stopped pointing out the times I've praised Trump. It's just not enough for some Trump supporters. Their POV is based in emotion---the issue is whether you love Donald. It has nothing to do with policy.
I'm done trying to prove anything. I'll keep doing the reasonable thing, which is to credit Trump when he manages to do something decent and ripping him when he doesn't. Whether someone gives me credit on their scoreboard is irrelevant.
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@INVAR
I think I missed that. In other words, they said that giving Trump credit when deserved is meaningless? Even though one of their main complaints has been our supposed failure to do that?
See, this is why I stopped pointing out the times I've praised Trump. It's just not enough for some Trump supporters. Their POV is based in emotion---the issue is whether you love Donald. It has nothing to do with policy.
I'm done trying to prove anything. I'll keep doing the reasonable thing, which is to credit Trump when he manages to do something decent and ripping him when he doesn't. Whether someone gives me credit on their scoreboard is irrelevant.
Yeah.... you're "done" alright!
Your credibility is zero here regarding anything Trump-related. And your posts read like farts in the wind.
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My position is clear, I'm a supporter and I'll be damned if I'm gonna give tacit support to those forces on the left and right by parroting those trying to discredit, belittle and ultimately to derail MY agenda (which is 89.9 percent in agreement with Tump's). I will never give aid and comfort to my political enemies just so I can advertise my virtue.
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As @Bigun once said.... "You're so FOS, your eyes are brown!" :smokin:
NO! @DCPatriot! He's right and YOU are wrong! AGAIN! STILL!
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@INVAR
I think I missed that. In other words, they said that giving Trump credit when deserved is meaningless?
Only when it is those of us whom they see as NeverTrump.
They demand oaths of fealty, not acknowledgement.
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As @Bigun once said.... "You're so FOS, your eyes are brown!" :smokin:
The record will prove me true.
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...in the very sentence in which he claims to call balls and strikes, this: "And I am among the most strident against him. :silly:
How'd you like to overhear the umpire uttering that pant load as you walk up to the plate?
I am not an umpire, nor am I supposed to be.
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Yeah.... you're "done" alright!
Your credibility is zero here regarding anything Trump-related. And your posts read like farts in the wind.
@DCPatriot
Well, I guess I'm going to have to try and find a reason to struggle on, now.