The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on June 20, 2021, 06:58:14 pm
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Ron DeSantis Beats Donald Trump in Major, Grassroots 2024 Straw Poll
By John Arthur | Jun 20, 2021 2:30 PM ET
Former President Donald J. Trump has clearly shifted the Republican Party towards a more populist direction since he first came down that escalator six years ago. But, since January 20 of this year, the big question has been whether or not voters would stick with President Trump, should he run again in 2024.
The GOP Establishment would love nothing more than to go back to the pre-Trump era, but it’s clear the voters want to go even further MAGA, so to speak. And this weekend, conference attendees at the Western Conservative Summit showed for the first time that in 2024, Ron DeSantis may be the Republican base’s choice to continue what President Trump started.
The Daily Wire reports that the Western Conservative Summit found that for those who attended, “The top five candidates, in order of most approval to least, were: Ron DeSantis (74%), Donald Trump (71%), Sen. Ted Cruz (43%), Mike Pompeo (39%) and Sen. Tim Scott (36%),”
Likewise, “Former Vice President Pence came in tenth place.”
more
https://redstate.com/johnarthur/2021/06/20/ron-desantis-beats-donald-trump-in-major-grassroots-2024-straw-poll-n399731
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Not surprising. So far .... DeSantis has a pretty clean record. Of course the obvious; election and ballot integrity is paramount and if amnesty is granted; there's no way a GOP will be seated.
Between now and election time, a lot can happen!
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Not surprising. So far .... DeSantis has a pretty clean record. Of course the obvious; election and ballot integrity is paramount and if amnesty is granted; there's no way a GOP will be seated.
Between now and election time, a lot can happen!
Without Trump, there never would have been DeSantis. That being said, it's time to pass on the torch.
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Right now DeSantis is in the driver seat.
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I've always said polls are notorious for being inaccurate predictors of public sentiment, and "straw polls" are the worst of the worst because all the participants are self-selected.
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Without Trump, there never would have been DeSantis. That being said, it's time to pass on the torch.
Guess where that torch is going if Trump's not at the top of the ticket: Romney/Haley or Scott/Cheney ....
DeSantis, whom I like, won't even make it to the big boy's debate stage.
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Right now DeSantis is in the driver seat.
DeSantis is 42 years old. If he's driving anywhere it best be to the VP slot on a Trump ticket. Four years of Trump's tutelage (especially foreign policy) and DeSantis is President through 2037.
DeSantis pushes too soon for the gold ring, and he's done. There is no way in hell the GOP will have fought for six years to get rid of Trump just to roll over for a younger version. The GOP will deny DeSantis the nomination and if he should squeeze it out, they'll deny him the White House.
If Trump wants it, the nomination if his. The real contest is for the number two slot. The one who figures this out, wins. Bigly.
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Without Trump, there never would have been DeSantis. That being said, it's time to pass on the torch.
DeSantis is just using and saying all the things POTUS TRUMP said. He even copied some hand gestures.
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DeSantis is 42 years old. If he's driving anywhere it best be to the VP slot on a Trump ticket. Four years of Trump's tutelage (especially foreign policy) and DeSantis is President through 2037.
DeSantis pushes too soon for the gold ring, and he's done. There is no way in hell the GOP will have fought for six years to get rid of Trump just to roll over for a younger version. The GOP will deny DeSantis the nomination and if he should squeeze it out, they'll deny him the White House.
If Trump wants it, the nomination if his. The real contest is for the number two slot. The one who figures this out, wins. Bigly.
We know the original, from a copy! lol. :hands: Ron has learned a lot from POTUS TRUMP.
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Are they using this 'poll' to cause friction and drive a wedge?
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Are they using this 'poll' to cause friction and drive a wedge?
IMO, (FWIW) @rustynail there will be a growing drumbeat to replace Trump with DeSantis. The GOP, orchestrating this, knows there's plenty of time to take out DeSantis once Trump's claim to the nomination has been erased or diminished.
They may even feel strong enough to prevent DeSantis' reelection. Two birds, one stone.
We're being played.
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DeSantis is 42 years old. If he's driving anywhere it best be to the VP slot on a Trump ticket. Four years of Trump's tutelage (especially foreign policy) and DeSantis is President through 2037.
DeSantis pushes too soon for the gold ring, and he's done. There is no way in hell the GOP will have fought for six years to get rid of Trump just to roll over for a younger version. The GOP will deny DeSantis the nomination and if he should squeeze it out, they'll deny him the White House.
If Trump wants it, the nomination if his. The real contest is for the number two slot. The one who figures this out, wins. Bigly.
There is no question that Trump pretty much got DeSantis elected and it was a very narrow win (less than 1%). I don't see DeSantis pushing for any seat other than the governor's seat, which is fine by me. We need him right where he's at. IMHO conservatives aren't going to win from the top down; a good solid conservative foundation from the bottom up needs to be built -- especially governors.
I'm not so confident that if Trump wants the nomination it's his -- the same people who fought to get rid of him, will continue to put up roadblocks and fight tooth and nail to ensure that he doesn't get the nomination and to get rid of him once and for all. You, know, people like Mittens and Mitch -- those idiots still like to think that they are gods. What I find interesting at this point, is there has been no real pushback from the DEMS against DeSantis and I can't figure out why.
I know you disagree with me, but my concern still is Trump's age; yes he has more energy than someone half his age, but nonetheless age usually does eventually catch up.
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If Trump wants it, the nomination if his. The real contest is for the number two slot. The one who figures this out, wins. Bigly.
I suspect @Right_in_Virginia is correct, the nomination is Trump's if he wants it.
But the idea that the running-mate position will be some kind of big prize is risible. Everyone knows Trump destroyed and alienated all the people that he himself selected; no one in their right mind will want the number two slot, or any other slot in a second Trump administration. No one wants to be the next Mike Pence, or Rex Tillerson, or Jim Jeffords, or Reince Priebus, or Sean Spicer, or John Kelly, or Anthony Scaramucci, or Jim Mattis, or Bob Barr. Everyone Trump touches turns to lead.
I'm a University of Tennessee football fan. We Vol fans maintain this delusion that the head coaching job there is a plum position, one of the best in the country, but in reality it's not. The program has declined so far and the fans are so fickle and unreasonable that the job is not desirable, and can only attract dark horse and second-tier candidates. Working for Trump is basically a football coaching position at the University of Tennessee; it's a bad career move and the kind of people we would want there are very unlikely to accept the job.
DeSantis might have to wait out a second Trump administration, but he doesn't need Trump for anything. Trump's first administration demonstrates that accepting a VP slot with him would have far more potential downside than up side. And before we accept the idea that DeSantis needs to learn anything from Trump, how about we identify a single prominent, successful person who considers Trump a mentor.
What the country needs is Trump's policies. His people management record in the White House was abysmal.
Vol football fans can list all the reasons that the last few coaches were all bad hires. And I'm sure we can quickly make up a long list of reasons why all those former first Trump administration officials were all terrible people. Remember who selected them.
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:thumbsup:
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I suspect @Right_in_Virginia is correct, the nomination is Trump's if he wants it.
DeSantis might have to wait out a second Trump administration, but he doesn't need Trump for anything. What the country needs is Trump's policies.
Like him, love him or hate him @HoustonSam removing Donald Trump from the tip of the spear in 2024 simply means we'll be blessed with a second Cheney as candidate for Vice President.
The very thing the GOP despised even more than the man --- were Trump's policies.
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Like him, love him or hate him @HoustonSam removing Donald Trump from the tip of the spear in 2024 simply means we'll be blessed with a second Cheney as candidate for Vice President.
The record proves that keeping him at the tip of the spear could bless us with a second Pence.
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I suspect @Right_in_Virginia is correct, the nomination is Trump's if he wants it.
But the idea that the running-mate position will be some kind of big prize is risible. Everyone knows Trump destroyed and alienated all the people that he himself selected; no one in their right mind will want the number two slot, or any other slot in a second Trump administration. No one wants to be the next Mike Pence, or Rex Tillerson, or Jim Jeffords, or Reince Priebus, or Sean Spicer, or John Kelly, or Anthony Scaramucci, or Jim Mattis, or Bob Barr. Everyone Trump touches turns to lead.
I'm a University of Tennessee football fan. We Vol fans maintain this delusion that the head coaching job there is a plum position, one of the best in the country, but in reality it's not. The program has declined so far and the fans are so fickle and unreasonable that the job is not desirable, and can only attract dark horse and second-tier candidates. Working for Trump is basically a football coaching position at the University of Tennessee; it's a bad career move and the kind of people we would want there are very unlikely to accept the job.
DeSantis might have to wait out a second Trump administration, but he doesn't need Trump for anything. Trump's first administration demonstrates that accepting a VP slot with him would have far more potential downside than up side. And before we accept the idea that DeSantis needs to learn anything from Trump, how about we identify a single prominent, successful person who considers Trump a mentor.
What the country needs is Trump's policies. His people management record in the White House was abysmal.
Vol football fans can list all the reasons that the last few coaches were all bad hires. And I'm sure we can quickly make up a long list of reasons why all those former first Trump administration officials were all terrible people. Remember who selected them.
I had to stop reading.......NT. post.
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Also consider that polls are not reliable. Not by a long shot. I don't think Trump has lost his popularity, if anything IMHO, he's likely become more popular.
DeSantis is in the spotlight a lot, but not so much is being reported by the more liberal news outlets.
Conservatives have an uphill battle and as I've stated a couple of times, building from the group up, IMHO is the way forward.
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The record proves that keeping him at the tip of the spear could bless us with a second Pence.
You want to blame him for that too? Did it occur to you that 99% OF GOP AND 100% DNC ...ARE CORRUPT? Same with Supreme Court.....SAME WITH MILITARY. Leftists....are everywhere , destroying America and our constitution. Lloyd Austin is purging all the conservatives in the military. His personal issues.
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The record proves that keeping him at the tip of the spear could bless us with a second Pence.
It does no such thing. In fact, I look forward to the President asking this question at his rallies next year: "Should I go with Pence?" 88devil
Decent try though @HoustonSam :laugh:
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A much nicer, gentler, soft NeverTrumper approach might just have some traction, and with Patriotic, put America first Trump out of the picture, the democrats, JUST LIKE NOW, can run wild and take us down the road we are on with few to get in the way. Lets just agree on nevertrump without too much hysteria and maybe we can reach the final utopia. Death to capitalism, lets all just learn to be satisfied with eating rats, and blame God for; How could God have let this desolation happen! First denials, then blame shift. (Does even God know how clever we are)? Its how those without morals or shame operate.
22222frying pan :smokin: 22222frying pan
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It does no such thing. In fact, I look forward to the President asking this question at his rallies next year: "Should I go with Pence?" 88devil
Decent try though @HoustonSam :laugh:
@Right_in_Virginia I thought you meant someone we could identify as a globalist like Dick Cheney; I didn't realize you literally meant Liz Cheney. That suggestion is so far beyond absurd that I didn't think even your monochromatic orange hallucinations could entertain it as a possibility. You can write down that I said it : there is no way Liz Cheney will be the Rs VP nominee in 2024. Even I think she should be expelled from the party for supporting impeachment.
I didn't literally mean Mike Pence; I meant someone you would again end up maligning as a coward and traitor. Given Trump's actual record in picking people and then getting crossed up with them, that outcome seems rather likely.
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I didn't literally mean Mike Pence;
You certainly meant Mike Pence. :laugh:
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You can write down that I said it : there is no way Liz Cheney will be the Rs VP nominee in 2024.
@HoustonSam You clearly have not been paying attention these last five years. The GOPe wants its power back and Cheney as the VP nominee will be the cherry on their parfait. They'll forfeit the WH to make this happen.
The only thing standing between the GOP and their sweet dessert is Donald J. Trump.
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@HoustonSam You clearly have not been paying attention these last five years. The GOPe wants its power back and Cheney as the VP nominee will be the cherry on their parfait. They'll forfeit the WH to make this happen.
Oh that's right, and that's why the GOPe kept Liz Cheney in a leadership position in the House Republican Caucus. Wait a minute - THEY DIDN'T.
@Right_in_Virginia if you are reduced to this kind of fantasy straw man argument for Trump - "If we don't nominate him Liz Cheney will be the running mate" - then not only do you need a better hero than Trump, Trump needs a better advocate than you.
Rather than wasting people's time with hallucinations that literally no one believes, why don't you go back to your ground-breaking work on Trump's hagiography. If you get it completed soon perhaps you can have a few of the world's major religions declare him "Venerable" in time for the primaries.
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The deep staters are extremely stubborn in their intolerance and rejection of Trump, sad they are often just passive on Biden, and last election made it clear how that turns out ! America in jeopardy, but who cares about that ?
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@Right_in_Virginia if you are reduced to this kind of fantasy straw man argument for Trump - "If we don't nominate him Liz Cheney will be the running mate" - then not only do you need a better hero than Trump, Trump needs a better advocate than you.
Rather than wasting people's time with hallucinations that literally no one believes, why don't you go back to your ground-breaking work on Trump's hagiography. If you get it completed soon perhaps you can have a few of the world's major religions declare him "Venerable" in time for the primaries.
When you lose control of your passive-agression, you really get personally ugly @HoustonSam -- twice now. **nononono*
You keep insisting that America First/MAGA wins without Trump as the tip of the spear. I keep reminding you that the establishment GOP spent six years stopping Trump's Amerca First policy iniatives while also trying to destroy the man. They want both Trump AND his policies gone. They are not going to permit a Trump wannabe to retake the Party.
You're so consumed with insulting me you miss the most important part: I am presenting the unfeigned agenda of the establishment GOP.
If you get your wish for a wannabe instead of Trump... I promise you he or she will be destroyed by the establishment GOP before the first debate and they will run a ticket of their base ..... any combination of Romney, Cheney, Haley, Scott, Bush, Christie and if they could exhume him, McCain.
The establishment GOP understands the fight they're in, even if you do not.
Trump comes with a built-in 75+ milllion base, which he will grow over the next year --- a base that is committed to America First and loyal to the man. The GOP cannot take him out. In 2022 he will work to fill the Congress with MAGA Republicans in preparation for his retaking the White House in 2024.
Donald Trump is the only one who can keep alive the policies you claim to support.
I hope this is clear enough for you to stop obessing over how next to insult me.
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A reminder that this topic is about Ron DeSantis, not other Briefers.
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Death to capitalism, lets all just learn to be satisfied with eating rats, and blame God for; How could God have let this desolation happen! First denials, then blame shift. (Does even God know how clever we are)? Its how those without morals or shame operate.
God gave us free will, some used it to elect a person that spit at God via several marriage affairs and flaunting a Playboy cover photo as a crowning achievement (remember he choose that himself to display after crowing about how he has a whole warehouse full of stuff about himself). This is a man that waved the Bible in one hand while holding his book in the other, but couldn't quote one verse out of the Bible when pressed and later when pressed presented a fake Bible verse as memorable.
Where exactly did Trump attend church at during his reign? Yeah, I didn't hear much about that either.
I get the feeling those that put Trump in a position of moral this or that have no idea what a moral line actually is. They have been grabbed by something and pulled along and seem to enjoy it.
Just to be clear, NY Values (Trump's term) of abortion and gun control and gay rights don't exactly jive with morals most of us in the south recognize.
The only thing (IMHO) electing Trump did was erase the moral high ground that most republicans could claim.
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God gave us free will, some used it to elect a person that spit at God via several marriage affairs and flaunting a Playboy cover photo as a crowning achievement (remember he choose that himself to display after crowing about how he has a whole warehouse full of stuff about himself). This is a man that waved the Bible in one hand while holding his book in the other, but couldn't quote one verse out of the Bible when pressed and later when pressed presented a fake Bible verse as memorable.
Where exactly did Trump attend church at during his reign? Yeah, I didn't hear much about that either.
I get the feeling those that put Trump in a position of moral this or that have no idea what a moral line actually is. They have been grabbed by something and pulled along and seem to enjoy it.
Just to be clear, NY Values (Trump's term) of abortion and gun control and gay rights don't exactly jive with morals most of us in the south recognize.
The only thing (IMHO) electing Trump did was erase the moral high ground that most republicans could claim.
I must point out that showing up at church means little. The Clintons conspicuously went to church. Not sure what they did there, considering the nature of their actions in DC.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
I am often closest to God when I am not within 4 walls.
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I must point out that showing up at church means little. The Clintons conspicuously went to church. Not sure what they did there, considering the nature of their actions in DC.
By their fruits ye shall know them.
I am often closest to God when I am not within 4 walls.
Well I allow some allowances now days... The public is so fickle that if you went to a Southern Baptist church one week you risk alienating the Methodist. So either it is private church or Milquetoast thus to appear neutral. Yeah, I do understand the politics of church attendance. Just as ole Joe tows the line of being a "Catholic" (generally considered "safe") and really doesn't fit the profile (we have seen the stories here at TBR). One of my fave politicians (you know who he is) was basically castrated with false allegations for having a moral line that conflicted with a basically godless society. Thus we have Trump waving a Gay Pride flag at one of his rallies (and some here turned a blind eye, just campaigning they said). Thus we had me thrown off of TOS due to pointing out Trump told Bruce Jenner he could use whatever restroom he wanted in Trump tower. Bruce did just that, went to the women's restroom and have the media cameras follow him.
Now I dump on Trump, but yes I did applaud things like returning the US embassy back to Jerusalem. Just I found Trump way lacking in the Christian morals backbone I want in a leader, and those that bring up "morals" don't really mean it in a way I understand "morals" to pertain. Now days morals means allegiance to some Conservative economic code which I found lacking too. But basically I was more concerned with flip flops on things like on debate suggesting dissolving Planned Parenthood (PP) and the next saying they did great things. There was basically no backbone on anything with a morality base. Things could be tied to a morality base, illegal immigration could be tied to the Bible saying bypassing the correct method to enter (sheep cloth) is wrong, but even during the election (first vs Clinton) Trump was vague on what he meant (even at one point suggesting just being deported outside border and reapplying). The Donald then latched on to the wall being built (which resounded well with his fans), a good idea, one I supported, but when push came to shove, and budget battles hit the point where he could of sent a signal he was serious he just signed (after threatening to not sign). To save face, he diverted money from his huge budget (where democrats got everything they wanted and more) to building the wall.
Fruits were a plenty.... look at the way Trump mocked those he fired. For what reason, to build himself up or to benefit the country? Pride, I stumble with it too, but Trump just kicked the stumbling block down the road to trip over it again. It probable cost him the election (along with the usual voter fraud). The state elections (for congress) did fairly well, but I didn't like how each candidate had to throw their anchor to latch on to Trump or they were labeled as traitors. My own state the winning candidate did nothing but cling to Trump, his checkered Rino past was ignored. Two solid proven Christian/conservatives (I could of voted for both of them) were bypassed.
What bitters my heart is perhaps my choice in a politician is now mostly ignored as unelectable. If one is not secular enough to fit in, they are ostracized. Heck locally the Rino governor vetted potential state legislators with a questionaire that asked them if they supported a "gas tax".... If they reported "no" (to the tax), they were denied GOP funds to help cover their expenses. Why support a tax? Well it is easier than dealing with the illegal problem that sucks the coffers dry and eats up most the budget. The state's tit is like the federal tit, it shows no signs of being dissolved. Thus the incentive to flood the state with illegals continues.
I am disillusioned to say the least.
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Just to be clear, NY Values (Trump's term) of abortion and gun control and gay rights don't exactly jive with morals most of us in the south recognize.
It's my understanding that the South would certainly understand the NY values Donald Trump was referring to. He made them quite clear: how NYers handled 911.
After the debate, Trump spoke with passion of the blue collar guys who ran up hundreds and hundreds of stairs even as people were flocking down them --- How hundreds of cops ran toward the burning buildings to help evacuate survivors; how firemen and construction crews dug for weeks through toxic debris -- often with their hands -- searching for any survivor and then any hint of the remains of the souls lost so their families would have something to bury....
The restaurants that opened to feed cops and firefighters free of charge, the NYers lined up to give blood, the church services, spontaneous applause for first responders when sighted by NYers on the streets --- and how the Mayor attended the funeral of every cop and firefighter killed.
For the man who lived and grew up there, "NY Values" meant community.
But somehow you missed all this @Sighlass and heard a defense of gay rights, abortion and gun control.
I don't think the problem here is with Trump.
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It's my understanding that the South would certainly understand the NY values Donald Trump was referring to. He made them quite clear: how NYers handled 911.
Cruz coined the "New York Values" term, but Trump originated the idea here :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsOlXidHXRE
Note particularly 0:25 to 0:35, when Trump attributes his pro-choice position to being from New York, and when Trump said he would not ban partial birth abortion at the end of the clip.
When the subject later came up in debate during the 2016 primaries, Trump certainly handled it much better than Cruz. Cruz should have been much better prepared for the inevitable question that came from Maria Bartiromo; his failure to see that one coming amounted to an unforced error and certainly disappointed me as a Cruz supporter.
And no, the South (at least my part of it) in no way understands the New York Values that Trump espoused in talking with Tim Russert.
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Cruz is too sanctimonious for his own good....still is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM6qRl3dSME
(https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/6cnPcDWts9h1K9zMXTVSIlstmjQ=/415x518/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/JSDHTNE6RDY3VECUDFCTBJK2YE.jpg)
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Cruz coined the "New York Values" term, but Trump originated the idea here :
Note particularly 0:25 to 0:35, when Trump attributes his pro-choice position to being from New York, and when Trump said he would not ban partial birth abortion at the end of the clip.
And no, the South (at least my part of it) in no way understands the New York Values that Trump espoused in talking with Tim Russert.
And yet Donald Trump is the only US President to actually do something about abortion rates in the world and separately in the US.
Go figure. :shrug:
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Cruz is too sanctimonious for his own good....still is
Yes, sometimes he is.
Maligning a public figure we dislike does not rebut an argument made with evidence. Critical thinkers actually recognize it as an admission of failure.
Trump explained with unambiguous clarity that he was completely pro-choice, including partial birth abortion, because he was from New York.
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And yet Donald Trump is the only US President to actually do something about abortion rates in the world and separately in the US.
Go figure. :shrug:
I credit Trump for selecting Judges and Justices that, we can hope at least, will turn the tide on abortion law. His record regarding public funding for Planned Parenthood is ambiguous. Remember, I voted to re-elect him.
My point is simply about the origin and meaning of "New York Values." The concept originated with Trump, and it did not flatter New Yorkers.
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The record proves that keeping him at the tip of the spear could bless us with a second Pence.
TRUMP will pick Pence again or someone like him. His personnel judgement are terrible and the list is on going. DeSantis would be great but maybe the timing is not for him. Someone indicated the GOP will want DeSantis as the candidate to get TRUMP out of the road then concentrate on destroying DeSantis. Yes, IRENE that is the RINO GOP playbook. Do not have the answer but TRUMP/DeSantis would set DeSantis up for 8 year run. If TRUMP does not pick DeSantis as a VP look out he will pick a RINO who does not look the part until it counts like Traitor PENCE. :patriot:
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I credit Trump for selecting Judges and Justices that, we can hope at least, will turn the tide on abortion law. His record regarding public funding for Planned Parenthood is ambiguous. Remember, I voted to re-elect him.
My point is simply about the origin and meaning of "New York Values." The concept originated with Trump, and it did not flatter New Yorkers.
Yes, I got your point. But I think it's rather meaningless when you see what Trump actually did as President. One of our differences, for good or ill, is you tend to stick with words, I stick with action taken.
BTW, imagine the consequence if the GOP supported these iniatives while we had the three branches of government.
Trump administration expands limits on global health funds tied to abortion
This is the strictest implementation of the so-called "Mexico City policy" yet.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-administration-expands-limits-global-health-funds-tied/story?id=61955061
There was nothing "ambiguous" about this:
Trump abortion restrictions effective immediately
Taxpayer-funded family planning clinics must stop referring women for abortions immediately, the Trump administration said Monday, declaring it will begin enforcing a new regulation hailed by religious conservatives and denounced by medical organizations and women’s rights groups.
https://apnews.com/article/e0bf2658969c482bb9addf40eb5bd667
Planned Parenthood just forfeited $60 million in federal funding so they don't have to comply with a rule that bans abortions
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gag-rule-limits-abortion-2018-5
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How greatly and desperate does the democrats and deep state fear and despise Trump? They false attacked President Trump for his entire term in office and beyond to this very day. The deep state relentlessly calls upon its stooges, the ones out in the open, and the ones wearing sheeps clothing, Pretend Conservatives. That's how desperately they are to defeat Trump, and make sure the Democrats get their dream of a one party rule, to rule over Americans like a all to typical THUGOCRACY so common of world socialist rule. One tip off is they are relentless in attacking Trump and want to ignore the Biden, Bidens and how such are tearing this nation apart. Fools are glad to be blind to this. The useful fools and wicked will fall in the same ditch, and their fates will be a fear to those that knew them.
You can see the common thread of the deep state stooges,Trump will never be perfect enough, and ignore the horror of democrats rule that came from Trumps defeat. Ignore reality, buy into the phony baloney spin! Trash Trump give democrats a pass! Biden is just starting to show you how bad this is going to get.
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It's my understanding that the South would certainly understand the NY values Donald Trump was referring to. He made them quite clear: how NYers handled 911.
After the debate, Trump spoke with passion of the blue collar guys who ran up hundreds and hundreds of stairs even as people were flocking down them --- How hundreds of cops ran toward the burning buildings to help evacuate survivors; how firemen and construction crews dug for weeks through toxic debris -- often with their hands -- searching for any survivor and then any hint of the remains of the souls lost so their families would have something to bury....
The restaurants that opened to feed cops and firefighters free of charge, the NYers lined up to give blood, the church services, spontaneous applause for first responders when sighted by NYers on the streets --- and how the Mayor attended the funeral of every cop and firefighter killed.
For the man who lived and grew up there, "NY Values" meant community.
But somehow you missed all this @Sighlass and heard a defense of gay rights, abortion and gun control.
I don't think the problem here is with Trump.
Some males have TDS. :thumbsup:
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How greatly and desperate does the democrats and deep state fear and despise Trump? They false attacked President Trump for his entire term in office and beyond to this very day. The deep state relentlessly calls upon its stooges, the ones out in the open, and the ones wearing sheeps clothing, Pretend Conservatives. That's how desperately they are to defeat Trump, and make sure the Democrats get their dream of a one party rule, to rule over Americans like a all to typical THUGOCRACY so common of world socialist rule. One tip off is they are relentless in attacking Trump and want to ignore the Biden, Bidens and how such are tearing this nation apart. Fools are glad to be blind to this. The useful fools and wicked will fall in the same ditch, and their fates will be a fear to those that knew them.
TRUMP ENVY. Now we have....biden. SOME WOULD BE CALLED USEFUL IDIOTS.
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Cruz is too sanctimonious for his own good....still is
.....and Trump is the ultimate meglomaniac, if we are tossing around personality disorders.
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What bitters my heart is perhaps my choice in a politician is now mostly ignored as unelectable. If one is not secular enough to fit in, they are ostracized. Heck locally the Rino governor vetted potential state legislators with a questionaire that asked them if they supported a "gas tax".... If they reported "no" (to the tax), they were denied GOP funds to help cover their expenses. Why support a tax? Well it is easier than dealing with the illegal problem that sucks the coffers dry and eats up most the budget. The state's tit is like the federal tit, it shows no signs of being dissolved. Thus the incentive to flood the state with illegals continues.
I am disillusioned to say the least.
I share those disillusions, believe me. Cruz had talked of the Wall well before the primaries, and Trump latched on to it. Some of his supporters went so far as to say Cruz 'stole' the idea from Trump, (somehow, some two years prior to the elections).
Funny, though, that whomever is put up as the GOP candidate will get votes, as the anti-communist, if nothing else, and those most lackluster performances were from "electable" compromises in position like Romney and McCain.
For a couple of decades I have called for someone to the right of center right, someone who, while naturally not perfect, represents a clear step in the right direction. I think the Conservative electorate is ready for someone like that, we just need to see who can fulfill the role.
Anyone is electable if people will vote for them, prvided the election is honestly conducted.
And yes, I believe Trump won in a landslide, and that the fraud (large and small utilizing every trick in the book) covered that up.
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I share those disillusions, believe me. Cruz had talked of the Wall well before the primaries, and Trump latched on to it. Some of his supporters went so far as to say Cruz 'stole' the idea from Trump, (somehow, some two years prior to the elections).
Funny, though, that whomever is put up as the GOP candidate will get votes, as the anti-communist, if nothing else, and those most lackluster performances were from "electable" compromises in position like Romney and McCain.
For a couple of decades I have called for someone to the right of center right, someone who, while naturally not perfect, represents a clear step in the right direction. I think the Conservative electorate is ready for someone like that, we just need to see who can fulfill the role.
Anyone is electable if people will vote for them, prvided the election is honestly conducted.
And yes, I believe Trump won in a landslide, and that the fraud (large and small utilizing every trick in the book) covered that up.
BINGO!!!!! We need to ensure that systems are in place so that we have an election that is honestly conducted before we can even think about who would be the best nominee! :shrug:
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Yes, I got your point. But I think it's rather meaningless when you see what Trump actually did as President. One of our differences, for good or ill, is you tend to stick with words, I stick with action taken.
BTW, imagine the consequence if the GOP supported these iniatives while we had the three branches of government.
There was nothing "ambiguous" about this:
Trump abortion restrictions effective immediately
Taxpayer-funded family planning clinics must stop referring women for abortions immediately, the Trump administration said Monday, declaring it will begin enforcing a new regulation hailed by religious conservatives and denounced by medical organizations and women’s rights groups.
https://apnews.com/article/e0bf2658969c482bb9addf40eb5bd667
Planned Parenthood just forfeited $60 million in federal funding so they don't have to comply with a rule that bans abortions
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-gag-rule-limits-abortion-2018-5
My point is not about Trump's effectiveness in working against abortion, it's about "New York Values"; if that was a slur, then it was a slur that originated with Trump.
Although much of his work on PP funding was to restore actions that had originated as far back as Reagan (such as the Mexico City policy), and his actions still left PP receiving some $500 million in taxpayer funds, Trump proved to be more sincere as a pro-life President than I had anticipated and I do credit him for that.
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.....and Trump is the ultimate meglomaniac, if we are tossing around personality disorders.
Oh for cripes sake. All who think they're capable of running the United States and serving as leader of the free world has got to be a meglomanic to varying degrees. America demands it. IOW, soy boys need not apply. Just ask Jeb. :laugh:
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My point is not about Trump's effectiveness in working against abortion, it's about "New York Values"
Again, I got your point. Now see if you can get mine:
The guy from NY is the ONLY US President to take action against abortion worldwide and right here in the good ole USA. You get stuck on words .... I applaud actions taken. This is what usually separates us.
Now please, can you find another dead horse to beat? happy77
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Guess where that torch is going if Trump's not at the top of the ticket: Romney/Haley or Scott/Cheney ....
DeSantis, whom I like, won't even make it to the big boy's debate stage.
@Right_in_Virginia
Yup! If there is ONE thing you can always count on the RNC to do,it is cave and surrender to they don't make their Dim pals mad.
If Trump isn't at the top of the ticket,I ain't voting,period.
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@Right_in_Virginia
Yup! If there is ONE thing you can always count on the RNC to do,it is cave and surrender to they don't make their Dim pals mad.
If Trump isn't at the top of the ticket,I ain't voting,period.
IMHO unless Ronna is replaced as head of the RNC, count on Mittens being the nominee.
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You, know, people like Mittens and Mitch -- those idiots still like to think that they are gods.
Well,for all practical political purposes,they are,and they want to REMAIN Gods by keeping the people in office,both Dim and alleged Republican that they know they can "work with".
What I find interesting at this point, is there has been no real pushback from the DEMS against DeSantis and I can't figure out why.
Seriously?
It is as obvious as ugly on a female Clinton. They want DeSantis to gain enough traction with the voters to get Trump to drop out or be defeated in the primary. They can then get together and stick knives in his back until he is defeated.
DeSantis is a egotistical fool if he falls for this instead of working to be Trump's VP.
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Again, I got your point. Now see if you can get mine:
The guy from NY is the ONLY US President to take action against abortion worldwide and right here in the good ole USA. You get stuck on words .... I applaud actions taken. This is what usually separates us.
Now please, can you find another dead horse to beat? happy77
@Right_in_Virginia you will not get away with changing the subject or moving the goalposts when I've proven you wrong. Other people may get lost following you down rabbit trails, but you might as well accept that I won't be doing that.
Having made that clear, I have admitted here at least twice that Trump's record on abortion is better than I ever expected; do you really not see that I have acknowledged your point, while you have basically ignored mine? I would like to find some common ground with you here and extend an olive branch but I'm not going to accept a truce where all the intellectual honesty has to be on my side.
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God gave us free will, some used it to elect a person that spit at God via several marriage affairs and flaunting a Playboy cover photo as a crowning achievement (remember he choose that himself to display after crowing about how he has a whole warehouse full of stuff about himself). This is a man that waved the Bible in one hand while holding his book in the other, but couldn't quote one verse out of the Bible when pressed and later when pressed presented a fake Bible verse as memorable.
Where exactly did Trump attend church at during his reign? Yeah, I didn't hear much about that either.
I get the feeling those that put Trump in a position of moral this or that have no idea what a moral line actually is. They have been grabbed by something and pulled along and seem to enjoy it.
Just to be clear, NY Values (Trump's term) of abortion and gun control and gay rights don't exactly jive with morals most of us in the south recognize.
The only thing (IMHO) electing Trump did was erase the moral high ground that most republicans could claim.
@Sighlass
You want some mythical creature from ancient history as president? A guy who was almost certainly a homosexual who refused to even defend himself?
Have you lost your freaking mind?
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Well,for all practical political purposes,they are,and they want to REMAIN Gods by keeping the people in office,both Dim and alleged Republican that they know they can "work with".
What I find interesting at this point, is there has been no real pushback from the DEMS against DeSantis and I can't figure out why.
Seriously?
It is as obvious as ugly on a female Clinton. They want DeSantis to gain enough traction with the voters to get Trump to drop out or be defeated in the primary. They can then get together and stick knives in his back until he is defeated.
DeSantis is a egotistical fool if he falls for this instead of working to be Trump's VP.
Two things here; for one DeSantis has stated that he will seek re-election as governor.
Trump hasn't even announced that he's running and honestly, I don't think that he will.
I think we need to make it through the midterms with HOPEFULLY (though I am doubtful) a fair election.
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IMHO unless Ronna is replaced as head of the RNC, count on Mittens being the nominee.
@libertybele
If Mittens gets the nod,I might even vote for the Dim candidate. If I am going to vote for a Chinese toy,I might as well vote for one that doesn't try to hide it.
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Other people know, Ron is using POTUS TRUMPS....game plan and actions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYaS4VpSe1c
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@libertybele
If Mittens gets the nod,I might even vote for the Dim candidate. If I am going to vote for a Chinese toy,I might as well vote for one that doesn't try to hide it.
Ronna as you know is Mittens niece. I believe she helped in the defeat of Trump. Just my opinion. If Mittens gets the nod, I will vote down ballot if there's anyone worth voting for or for the first time in my life, I won't vote at all. Why bother??
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@Right_in_Virginia you will not get away with changing the subject or moving the goalposts when I've proven you wrong. Other people may get lost following you down rabbit trails, but you might as well accept that I won't be doing that.
Having made that clear, I have admitted here at least twice that Trump's record on abortion is better than I ever expected; do you really not see that I have acknowledged your point, while you have basically ignored mine? I would like to find some common ground with you here and extend an olive branch but I'm not going to accept a truce where all the intellectual honesty has to be on my side.
I never offered a truce or expected one from you. I merely answered --- again --- your question and suggested in the most polite way I could think of that you stop your incessant, absurd circular blather.
I don't know what is confusing you now, Sam, but this time ... I no longer give a damn.
Have a good night. (Or don't .... it's up to you.)
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@Right_in_Virginia
Yup! If there is ONE thing you can always count on the RNC to do,it is cave and surrender to they don't make their Dim pals mad.
If Trump isn't at the top of the ticket,I ain't voting,period.
I'm right behind ya @sneakypete
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I never offered a truce or expected one from you. I merely answered --- again --- your question and suggested in the most polite way I could think of that you stop your incessant, absurd circular blather.
I don't know what is confusing you now, Sam, but this time ... I no longer give a damn.
Have a good night. (Or don't .... it's up to you.)
Fair enough, so long as we both know where we stand. Don't expect to see any more "passive" in the "passive aggressive."
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Don't expect to see any more "passive" in the "passive aggressive."
Please don't threaten me @HoustonSam
@mystery-ak
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I like Desantis, but underestimate Trump at your own peril, at least in the GOP primaries.
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Game set and match goes to @HoustonSam for being the sane voice of reason and reality in this thread.
:pop41:
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Game set and match goes to @HoustonSam for being the sane voice of reason and reality in this thread.
:pop41:
Yeah... As if that ever would be a question... :beer:
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It's my understanding that the South would certainly understand the NY values Donald Trump was referring to. He made them quite clear: how NYers handled 911.
After the debate, Trump spoke with passion of the blue collar guys who ran up hundreds and hundreds of stairs even as people were flocking down them --- How hundreds of cops ran toward the burning buildings to help evacuate survivors; how firemen and construction crews dug for weeks through toxic debris -- often with their hands -- searching for any survivor and then any hint of the remains of the souls lost so their families would have something to bury....
The restaurants that opened to feed cops and firefighters free of charge, the NYers lined up to give blood, the church services, spontaneous applause for first responders when sighted by NYers on the streets --- and how the Mayor attended the funeral of every cop and firefighter killed.
For the man who lived and grew up there, "NY Values" meant community.
But somehow you missed all this @Sighlass and heard a defense of gay rights, abortion and gun control.
I don't think the problem here is with Trump.
You forget that we are political bugs, that was not the NY values Cruz was referencing (and you know it). Trump defined it and it wasn't anything like Trump (and you) suggested in the debate. But it worked, why because the electorate in general is not informed like you and me on such matters, so stop spinning the subject pretending we are political novices, at least here at TBR.
Trump's NY Values was far liberal. He was dang proud of his position (at an age that he should of known better).... It just goes to prove that Trump wasn't a conservative and never will be, he is a populace and blows with the wind.
Here is Cruz's video on the subject. I have it bookmarked actually. He admits his views are different from Iowa.... he goes on and on about his NY values because he is lived there all his life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHAHKGP10yc
What ticked me off the most was the way Kelly (Fox News at the time) handled the question during the debate, she only admitted later that she knew what Cruz was driving at. She knew Trump's positions he placed out front during the interview.
@Right_in_Virginia
Trump said "it was a very insulting" statement Cruz made... well in context it was 100% true and Trump's own words prove it. Again, too bad the voting public didn't do their homework to fully understand "Trump's NY Values" which at least partially negate most conservative voters that vote those issues (gay marriage, gays in military, and partial birth abortion).
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Texans don't really care much for loud obnoxious New Yorkers, no matter what their values are.
Hence, why so many of us held our nose, and voted for him. Again I'll say... lets move on get some new blood in there. DeSantis or Cotton either works fine for me at this point
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You forget that we are political bugs, that was not the NY values Cruz was referencing (and you know it). Trump defined it and it wasn't anything like Trump (and you) suggested in the debate. But it worked, why because the electorate in general is not informed like you and me on such matters, so stop spinning the subject pretending we are political novices, at least here at TBR.
Trump's NY Values was far liberal. He was dang proud of his position (at an age that he should of known better).... It just goes to prove that Trump wasn't a conservative and never will be, he is a populace and blows with the wind.
Here is Cruz's video on the subject. I have it bookmarked actually. He admits his views are different from Iowa.... he goes on and on about his NY values because he is lived there all his life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHAHKGP10yc
What ticked me off the most was the way Kelly (Fox News at the time) handled the question during the debate, she only admitted later that she knew what Cruz was driving at. She knew Trump's positions he placed out front during the interview.
@Right_in_Virginia
Trump said "it was a very insulting" statement Cruz made... well in context it was 100% true and Trump's own words prove it. Again, too bad the voting public didn't do their homework to fully understand "Trump's NY Values" which at least partially negate most conservative voters that vote those issues (gay marriage, gays in military, and partial birth abortion).
@Sighlass
You can pretend to be an unbiased rational conservative all you want,but you ain't fooling anybody. Trump IS the most conservative President of my lifetime,and Cruz is just a poser,going whichever way the wind blows.
Damn shame he is so wishy-washy because I think he may be the smartest man in politics,and when he stands up on his hind legs like an actual man and defends any attack that puts his seat in danger,he is something wonderful to see and hear. That seems to be the only time he shows any honest passion.
Truth to tell,I honestly don't think he would even accept the Presidential nomination if it were handed to him on a platter. I think he is just talking this smack to get free press attention and to build up his own conservative credentials by pretending to be more conservative than Trump.
You just don't like Trump,and you are not going to let reality get in your way.
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Texans don't really care much for loud obnoxious New Yorkers, no matter what their values are.
Hence, why so many of us held our nose, and voted for him. Again I'll say... lets move on get some new blood in there. DeSantis or Cotton either works fine for me at this point
@catfish1957
Ok,show me when they ever stood up and fought tooth and nail for conservative positions against a hostile print and broadcast media,live tv.
Show me when they were EVER attacked like Trump was attacked,and stood up on their hind feet and not only defended themselves,but fought back without retreating.
I will freely admit that DeSantis shows a LOT of promise and at this point I would not object to him being mentioned as a possible VP candidate,BUT........,he has not really had his feet fed to the fire yet,and I have no idea how he will react to the tremendous pressure that will be brought on him or any other VP candidate,never mind Presidential candidate.
We know how Trump reacts,though. Like a kid at a candy store. He shrugs off or dismisses their charges like nothing more than a useless distraction,and then goes after his accusers and the left. This drives the left absolutely nuts.
As for Cotton,I have nothing to say because I know nothing about him.
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I'm right behind ya @sneakypete
I'll vote for the man if only because all the right people hate him.
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@catfish1957
Ok,show me when they ever stood up and fought tooth and nail for conservative positions against a hostile print and broadcast media,live tv.
Show me when they were EVER attacked like Trump was attacked,and stood up on their hind feet and not only defended themselves,but fought back without retreating.
I will freely admit that DeSantis shows a LOT of promise and at this point I would not object to him being mentioned as a possible VP candidate,BUT........,he has not really had his feet fed to the fire yet,and I have no idea how he will react to the tremendous pressure that will be brought on him or any other VP candidate,never mind Presidential candidate.
We know how Trump reacts,though. Like a kid at a candy store. He shrugs off or dismisses their charges like nothing more than a useless distraction,and then goes after his accusers and the left. This drives the left absolutely nuts.
As for Cotton,I have nothing to say because I know nothing about him.
We all have our own POV. I just think you hero is a loud obnoxious Yankee, who sadly happens to be the only choice we pretty much have . IF he gets the nomimation in 2024, I hold my nose and pull the lever again for him.
But OTOH, I sure doesn't mean I like him or admire him.
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I'll vote for the man if only because all the right people hate him.
@skeeter
A list of a man's enemies will tell you more about him than anything else I know of.
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We all have our own POV. I just think you hero is a loud obnoxious Yankee, who sadly happens to be the only choice we pretty much have . IF he gets the nomimation in 2024, I hold my nose and pull the lever again for him.
But OTOH, I sure doesn't mean I like him or admire him.
@catfish1957
"SO BLEEPING WHAT?" to both quotes in bold. Nobody is asking you to marry him,or even sleep with him.
AND.......,we are NOT looking for a prom date for your 17 year old daughter. What we are looking for is a hard-nosed,hard-headed SOB to be tough enough to become president and stand up to and defeat the freaking left.
If his limo were to break down outside my house I wouldn't let him in to make a phone call to a tow. I would be happy to make the call for him,but I wouldn't let him in my house.
Then again,I am looking for a tough-minded man to become president of the United States and defend us against "All enemies,foreign or domestic". It is NOT necessary for me to like him.
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IMO, (FWIW) @rustynail there will be a growing drumbeat to replace Trump with DeSantis. The GOP, orchestrating this, knows there's plenty of time to take out DeSantis once Trump's claim to the nomination has been erased or diminished.
They may even feel strong enough to prevent DeSantis' reelection. Two birds, one stone.
We're being played.
@Right_in_Virginia
Yup,to every word of it!
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I suspect @Right_in_Virginia is correct, the nomination is Trump's if he wants it.
No one wants to be the next Mike Pence, or Rex Tillerson, or Jim Jeffords, or Reince Priebus, or Sean Spicer, or John Kelly, or Anthony Scaramucci, or Jim Mattis, or Bob Barr. Everyone Trump touches turns to lead.
@HoustonSam
I have to admit I don't even want to be one of the originals. I have too much self-respect.
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Good grief people, it's a freakin' straw poll that truly doesn't mean diddly squat! Peace.
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.....and Trump is the ultimate meglomaniac, if we are tossing around personality disorders.
@catfish1957
Does this mean that you are somehow under the delusion that we need a shy and modest man for President?
I kinda want a man that will fight for America instead of self. In FACT,he has already done this. Being president has cost him millions,not earned him millions for failing to defend America like every RINO bastard since Reagan left office.
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IMHO unless Ronna is replaced as head of the RNC, count on Mittens being the nominee.
@libertybele
I would set myself on fire before I would vote for that weasel bastard.
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@libertybele
I would set myself on fire before I would vote for that weasel bastard.
@sneakypete he ain't worth it!