The Briefing Room
General Category => Economy/Business => Topic started by: rangerrebew on August 20, 2017, 01:08:57 pm
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La Paloma is not the only power plant in California facing closure due to its policy promoting renewable energy
California Gas-Fired Power Plant Files for Bankruptcy
By Institute for Energy Research —— Bio and Archives August 20, 2017
The La Paloma natural gas plant in California filed for bankruptcy last December because it was not getting enough operating time to cover its costs due to solar and other renewable energy receiving preference. The plant, which serves as back-up to the state’s renewable generating technologies, was also denied a reliability charge by the state that would have allowed it to continue to operate. The owners project an annual loss of $39 million without a reliability contract or other support. In its bankruptcy filing, the plant owners listed assets of between $100 million and $500 million and liabilities of $500 million to $1 billion.1 La Paloma is a 1200-megawatt merchant plant located 110 miles northwest of Los Angeles and is able to serve both the San Francisco and Los Angeles markets.2
http://canadafreepress.com/article/california-gas-fired-power-plant-files-for-bankruptcy
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I doubt the state will allows this plant to close, as that backup power generation is needed by CA.
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I doubt the state will allows this plant to close, as that backup power generation is needed by CA.
Do you expect the State to take of the power plant?
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Do you expect the State to take of the power plant?
I think the question becomes one of "Can the power plant operate at a profit (or even breakeven) if it has to compete with subsidized industry?" If the playing field isn't level, it gets tougher.
That said, I don't know what levels of subsidies the 'renewables' get.
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I think the question becomes one of "Can the power plant operate at a profit (or even breakeven) if it has to compete with subsidized industry?" If the playing field isn't level, it gets tougher.
That said, I don't know what levels of subsidies the 'renewables' get.
Its difficult for any utility to make a profit when power plants are constantly have regulation after regulation imposed on them. If power plants were freed from some regulation then we can be energy self sufficient.I blame the eco-friendly groups for creating this problem.Natural gas plants emit a tiny fraction of the smog-causing gases and slightly more than half of the greenhouse gases emitted by their coal-burning counterpart.As the U.S. is using natural gas for producing electricity, the air is getting cleaner.
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Do you expect the State to take of the power plant?
I say the CA will follow the practices of NY and give subsidies to ensure backup power generation remains in place. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-nuclearpower-idUSKBN1AA2VF
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I say the CA will follow the practices of NY and give subsidies to ensure backup power generation remains in place. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-nuclearpower-idUSKBN1AA2VF
They already turned that down.
The plant, which serves as back-up to the state’s renewable generating technologies, was also denied a reliability charge by the state that would have allowed it to continue to operate.
I think CA won't accept reality until well after regular rolling blackouts. And likely then they will deny reality but justify imports of gas power from across the border pretending they still live in utopia.
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They already turned that down.
I think CA won't accept reality until well after regular rolling blackouts. And likely then they will deny reality but justify imports of gas power from across the border pretending they still live in utopia.
Or until the money runs out.
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They already turned that down.
I think CA won't accept reality until well after regular rolling blackouts. And likely then they will deny reality but justify imports of gas power from across the border pretending they still live in utopia.
:amen:
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Or until the money runs out.
I thought California has been in the red for years. Sell more bonds and the like, no problem. :whistle:
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I doubt the state will allows this plant to close, as that backup power generation is needed by CA.
I think you sadly underestimate moonbeam and his gaia worshipping lunatic cohorts agenda for destroying California.
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IIRC, when this was going on around 15-20 years ago, CA patched it's electrical supply problem by purchasing it from an AZ Nuke plant. It will take punishing the public with rolling blackouts to get their supply issues stabilized.
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I thought California has been in the red for years. Sell more bonds and the like, no problem. :whistle:
Until no one buys those bonds.
Like I said before, until the money runs out.
BTW, Do you equate bonds with having money?
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Until no one buys those bonds.
Like I said before, until the money runs out.
BTW, Do you equate bonds with having money?
No I don't. I think the money already run out and it hasn't stopped them yet.
Do you equate selling bonds with having money?
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Bonds represent debt. A government, corporation, or other entity that needs to raise cash borrows money in the public market and subsequently pays interest on that loan to investors.Each bond has a certain par value (say, $1000) and pays a coupon to investors. For instance, a $1000 bond with a 4% coupon would pay $20 to the investor twice a year ($40 annually) until it matures. Upon maturity, the investor is returned the full amount of his or her original principal except for the rare occasion when a bond defaults (i.e., the issuer is unable to make the payment).Bonds lack the powerful long-term return potential of stocks, but they are preferred by investors for whom income is a priority. Also, bonds are less risky than stocks. While their prices fluctuate in the market – sometimes quite substantially in the case of higher-risk market segments - the vast majority of bonds tend to pay back the full amount of principal at maturity, and there is much less risk of loss than there is with stocks.I prefer bonds with stocks.In WWII, the Congress in order to pay for the war, the put up half in cash and the other half in war bonds. Many actors and actresses from Hollywood criss-crossed the country selling war bonds to the public. The response was a success.
See: "World At War" episode "We are on our Way" concerning how the money was raised in WWII.Not exactly one of my favorites in the series.
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I think the question becomes one of "Can the power plant operate at a profit (or even breakeven) if it has to compete with subsidized industry?" If the playing field isn't level, it gets tougher.
That said, I don't know what levels of subsidies the 'renewables' get.
I don't know how much California subsidizes solar/wind, but the feds give "renewable" operators $0.23/kW-hr in operating subsidies. In every other state, that is not enough to compete with cheap gas in a combined cycle plant, so California probably makes up the difference and does have laws mandating that utilities take the "renewables" first.
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No I don't. I think the money already run out and it hasn't stopped them yet.
Do you equate selling bonds with having money?
Yes, it is having money. A bond you are able to sell is bought by a buyer who gives you money.
You can file bankruptcy like the current thread shows and you have enriched yourself with someone else's money as it does not all have to be paid back.
In the case of a state filing bankruptcy, a bondholder is unlikely to have any recourse.
So California does indeed have money, as long as they can parlay their debt to suckers who give them money in exchange.
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Yes, it is having money. A bond you are able to sell is bought by a buyer who gives you money.
You can file bankruptcy like the current thread shows and you have enriched yourself with someone else's money as it does not all have to be paid back.
In the case of a state filing bankruptcy, a bondholder is unlikely to have any recourse.
So California does indeed have money, as long as they can parlay their debt to suckers who give them money in exchange.
You are taking a risk investing in bonds.If the company or state goes into bankruptcy you have worthless paper.Bonds are more like leadoff hitters, the guys who can consistently hit singles and get on base. That is why you diversify your portfolio.In designing a portfolio, you want to have a mix of assets that can move inversely under different market conditions. Diversifying in this way reduces your risk and thus your chances of getting hurt.
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You are taking a risk investing in bonds.If the company or state goes into bankruptcy you have worthless paper.Bonds are more like leadoff hitters, the guys who can consistently hit singles and get on base. That is why you diversify your portfolio.In designing a portfolio, you want to have a mix of assets that can move inversely under different market conditions. Diversifying in this way reduces your risk and thus your chances of getting hurt.
You are confusing the risk of me as a seller of bonds vs you as a buyer of bonds.
Me, I am California, selling worthless bonds to collect money to fund useless schemes as I have broken the back of the taxpayers and need another money source. And if I cannot pay them back, I simply say the magic words 'Bankrupt'.
You are the one undertaking risk if you buy my bonds.
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You are confusing the risk of me as a seller of bonds vs you as a buyer of bonds.
Me, I am California, selling worthless bonds to collect money to fund useless schemes as I have broken the back of the taxpayers and need another money source. And if I cannot pay them back, I simply say the magic words 'Bankrupt'.
You are the one undertaking risk if you buy my bonds.
That is why you diversify your portfolio.I prefer a mixture of bonds,stocks,cash and metals such as silver or gold.I only buy bonds from institutions that I know will not be able to pay when it hits maturity.
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That is why you diversify your portfolio.I prefer a mixture of bonds,stocks,cash and metals such as silver or gold.I only buy bonds from institutions that I know will not be able to pay when it hits maturity.
I understand diversification, but why buy bonds from institutions that will not be able to pay?
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I understand diversification, but why buy bonds from institutions that will not be able to pay?
Do your homework.Read financial magazines or newspapers like Money,Fortune or Forbes Magazine. Business Insider Magazine is also a great online magazine.Speak to a financial adviser to set up your portfolio. I had the financial adviser already. He was my father.He read all the literature that was available on investing and retirement.
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I understand diversification, but why buy bonds from institutions that will not be able to pay?
See that wall right now? Some people talk to it like we both have.
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This debacle has nothing to do with money. It's all about control. Liberals want people to do things. If they can control electricity, they can control the people. So they will eventually start telling people to cut back on air conditioning, lighting, reduce business hours, etc. Remember the gas crisis and all the rules that came out of it? We wanted SUV's but liberals didn't want us to have them so they passed gas mileage standards.
It's always about control. They don't want to fix the problem. They want to fix you
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This debacle has nothing to do with money. It's all about control. Liberals want people to do things. If they can control electricity, they can control the people. So they will eventually start telling people to cut back on air conditioning, lighting, reduce business hours, etc. Remember the gas crisis and all the rules that came out of it? We wanted SUV's but liberals didn't want us to have them so they passed gas mileage standards.
It's always about control. They don't want to fix the problem. They want to fix you
:beer:
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This debacle has nothing to do with money. It's all about control. Liberals want people to do things. If they can control electricity, they can control the people. So they will eventually start telling people to cut back on air conditioning, lighting, reduce business hours, etc. Remember the gas crisis and all the rules that came out of it? We wanted SUV's but liberals didn't want us to have them so they passed gas mileage standards.
It's always about control. They don't want to fix the problem. They want to fix you
It absolutely is about money. The end game is control, but the mechanism is money.
'The power to tax is the power to destroy'. Daniel Webster 1798
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What is mysterious about this is that there seems to be a corporation that owns the gas-fired plant and nothing else. Shouldn't the gas-fired plant, which comes online to fill gaps created by dips in wind and solar production, be owned by the same company that has the wind and solar production? Doubtless this irrational market structure is something created by government "green energy" incentives.
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What is mysterious about this is that there seems to be a corporation that owns the gas-fired plant and nothing else. Shouldn't the gas-fired plant, which comes online to fill gaps created by dips in wind and solar production, be owned by the same company that has the wind and solar production? Doubtless this irrational market structure is something created by government "green energy" incentives.
There are probably some anti-monopoly regulations that forbid that. As has been mentioned many times here, the energy industry is one of the most heavily regulated sectors of the economy, especially in CA.
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What is mysterious about this is that there seems to be a corporation that owns the gas-fired plant and nothing else. Shouldn't the gas-fired plant, which comes online to fill gaps created by dips in wind and solar production, be owned by the same company that has the wind and solar production? Doubtless this irrational market structure is something created by government "green energy" incentives.
What you are describing is not the reason La Paloma was built in 2003. It was as a baseload plant. It has been forced to instead turn into a peak-shaving plant by the California govt, which gave preference to power produced by renewable plants.
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What is mysterious about this is that there seems to be a corporation that owns the gas-fired plant and nothing else. Shouldn't the gas-fired plant, which comes online to fill gaps created by dips in wind and solar production, be owned by the same company that has the wind and solar production? Doubtless this irrational market structure is something created by government "green energy" incentives.
I like the relatively free market. I wouldn't want to see companies forced to do both. But I also believe dispatchable sources have a greater value and should be paid accordingly.
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I like the relatively free market. I wouldn't want to see companies forced to do both. But I also believe dispatchable sources have a greater value and should be paid accordingly.
Not sure what a 'dispatchable source' actually is. La Paloma was built as a merchant plant. Is that a 'dispatchable source'?
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Not sure what a 'dispatchable source' actually is. La Paloma was built as a merchant plant. Is that a 'dispatchable source'?
A dispatchable power source can come online when needed, not just when the wind blows or the sun shines. It can adjust the amount of power produced upon demand.
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A dispatchable power source can come online when needed, not just when the wind blows or the sun shines. It can adjust the amount of power produced upon demand.
So by that definition, is La Paloma a dispatchable source? Or does a dispatchable source need to be commercial?
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So by that definition, is La Paloma a dispatchable source? Or does a dispatchable source need to be commercial?
Yes, it is dispatchable. It is technical ability, not economics.
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I say the CA will follow the practices of NY and give subsidies to ensure backup power generation remains in place. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-nuclearpower-idUSKBN1AA2VF
With what money? Oh, I get it. :facepalm: They'll just bring in more illegal immigrants with those high paying jobs and increase the taxes on them. :thud:
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La Paloma is not the only power plant in California facing closure due to its policy promoting renewable energy
Hey California......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4slnrW78Mo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4slnrW78Mo)