The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on October 04, 2013, 02:12:20 am
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http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/03/report-boehner-told-group-of-house-republicans-hell-violate-the-hastert-rule-to-raise-the-debt-ceiling-if-necessary/ (http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/03/report-boehner-told-group-of-house-republicans-hell-violate-the-hastert-rule-to-raise-the-debt-ceiling-if-necessary/)
Report: Boehner told group of House Republicans he’ll violate the Hastert Rule to raise the debt ceiling if necessary
posted at 8:01 pm on October 3, 2013 by Allahpundit
Big news — unless, of course, it’s disinformation, which I doubt.
With attention shifting to potential consequences of not increasing the debt limit, one House Republican said Thursday that Speaker John A. Boehner had told colleagues in a meeting that he was determined to prevent a federal default and was willing to pass a measure through a combination of Republican and Democratic votes.
The lawmaker, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said Mr. Boehner had said he would be willing to violate the so-called Hastert Rule if necessary to pass a debt limit increase. The informal rule refers to a policy of not bringing to the floor any measure that does not have a majority of Republican votes.
Other Republicans also said Thursday that they got the sense that Mr. Boehner would do whatever was necessary to ensure that the country did not default on its debt.
Representative Leonard Lance of New Jersey, one of the moderate Republicans who met privately with Mr. Boehner on Wednesday, would not provide details of the meeting, but said, “The speaker of the House does not want to default on the debt on the United States, and I believe he believes in Congress as an institution, and I certainly believe he is working for the best interests of the American people.”
Could be that some random Republican in the House is worried about Boehner caving and concocted this story for reporters in hopes that there’ll be an uproar on the right over it and Boehner will get nervous. Or, could be that someone in leadership concocted it to calm markets that are jittery after Obama’s “time to freak out” CNBC interview yesterday. Note, though, that the NYT claims to have several sources who have similar impressions about his intentions. And for what little it’s worth, this is precisely what I’d expect him to do if we reach the debt-ceiling deadline on October 16th without a deal. You’d need to have an unusually committed ideological warrior in charge for the House to stand firm as Treasury hits the ceiling, with media air-raid sirens about default blaring in the background. Boehner’s not that guy. After decades in the House, his legacy as Speaker will not be “he played chicken with the prospect of a global economic meltdown.” That’s what Lance is getting at in the excerpt with that telling bit about Boehner believing in Congress “as an institution.” (I recall similar things being said about John Roberts vis-a-vis the legitimacy of the Court before the big ruling on the mandate last year, and you know how that turned out.) I’d go so far as to bet that he’d agree to a clean debt-ceiling hike at the last minute even if he had every reason to believe that it would cost him his Speakership.
And of course, Obama would bet the same way. That’s what yesterday’s tank-the-market soundbite was about, using a quickie downturn based on the president’s pessimism about a deal to give centrist Republicans like Boehner and McConnell a taste of what could happen if they follow tea partiers to the brink. Hasn’t worked especially well — the Dow’s down “only” 100 points as I write this — but debt-ceiling hysteria is showing up in other places:
(http://media.hotair.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ga1.jpg)
Market panic isn’t O’s only weapon. In his speech this morning, he warned seniors (a sizable chunk of the GOP’s base) that Social Security checks won’t go out on time if we hit the debt ceiling. And of course the polls are as reliably grim about the ceiling as they are about a shutdown: Yesterday, CNN found that 56 percent think it’d be a bad thing if the ceiling wasn’t raised while 64 percent oppose using the ceiling as leverage to defund ObamaCare specifically. When asked which side they’d blame if the debt limit was reached, 53 percent say congressional Republicans versus just 31 percent who say Obama. Boehner surely has 20 centrist House GOPers willing to vote with Democrats for a clean debt-ceiling hike; even a clean CR to end the much less significant government shutdown seems to be growing more popular in the caucus. The only obstacle to passing one is his own personal reluctance to face the political consequences from the right of bringing that hike to the floor. Show of hands: Who thinks that’ll stop him after two more weeks of tremendous pressure from the center and the left?
Exit quotation from, er, Denny Hastert: “The Hastert Rule never really existed.”
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If this is true, not only will a clean debt-ceiling bill be passed, but the CR will be passed as well.
Why would Obama budge an inch?
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Exit quotation from, er, Denny Hastert: “The Hastert Rule never really existed.”
It existed, all right, but not by Hastert. It was invented by Sheldon Silver, Democrat speaker of the New York State Assembly since 1994, who continues to use it to this day. Silver's rule is even more barbaric: no bill comes to the floor that he cannot pass without a single vote from the opposing party (thus, in a 150-member chamber with 100 Democrats and 50 Republicans, Silver would have to find 76 Democrats in favor before bringing the bill to a vote; thus, even if the bill would pass 125-25, if all 25 of the nays were Democrats, Silver would block the bill). Obviously in a chamber more closely divided, like the U.S. House, a full-fledged Silver Rule would never work. Hence the watered-down version attributed to Hastert: only the majority of the ruling party needs to support the bill to advance it.
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If this is true, not only will a clean debt-ceiling bill be passed, but the CR will be passed as well.
Why would Obama budge an inch?
To protect his party's electoral prospects in 2014... to maintain the gravitas needed to continue to influence elections after he's term-limited out of office... and to avoid a threat of impeachment should the GOP take a sizable chunk of the Senate in 2014.
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To protect his party's electoral prospects in 2014... to maintain the gravitas needed to continue to influence elections after he's term-limited out of office... and to avoid a threat of impeachment should the GOP take a sizable chunk of the Senate in 2014.
If Obama wins this, he's golden. And the idiot GOP will be deflated and humiliated. And there was no reason for it.
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To protect his party's electoral prospects in 2014... to maintain the gravitas needed to continue to influence elections after he's term-limited out of office... and to avoid a threat of impeachment should the GOP take a sizable chunk of the Senate in 2014.
The full damage of Obamacare will not be felt until the delayed business mandate kicks in after the elections. Then Obama just needs to coast to 2016 and watch the fruits of his legacy. Something Obama truly believes will be glorious.
Do you believe that Obama thinks he is losing this battle? I believe Obama thinks standing up against the GOP gives him gravitas. He might even be enjoying, a little bit, the blatant closings of government property to the public. I think he thinks the people who are inconvenienced by the shutdown will blame the GOP.
If that's true, how do we negotiate with Obama? We offer to stop a shut-down that Obama, and it looks to me like most voters, believe makes his position stronger each day it continues. In exchange we offer to cripple his signature legislation...he may need a sweetener on that deal.
You talk about impeachment but that threat will disappear if Obama's job approval jumps higher and higher each day the government is shut down. Which I think is likely to happen.
I could be wrong. I have been wrong many times, but I think we will lose this game of chicken. I think many voters don't watch the news. They watch their facebook page and think they get the news and their friends are telling them that the Republicans are screwing with their kids field trip and when they turn on the daily show Jon says something funny about a "continual resolution" what ever that is.
And when it becomes clear to everyone except conservatives that the GOP sucks...
:vote:
the government will reopen and those voters can get back to their lives.
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The full damage of Obamacare will not be felt until the delayed business mandate kicks in after the elections. Then Obama just needs to coast to 2016 and watch the fruits of his legacy. Something Obama truly believes will be glorious.
Do you believe that Obama thinks he is losing this battle? I believe Obama thinks standing up against the GOP gives him gravitas. He might even be enjoying, a little bit, the blatant closings of government property to the public. I think he thinks the people who are inconvenienced by the shutdown will blame the GOP.
If that's true, how do we negotiate with Obama? We offer to stop a shut-down that Obama, and it looks to me like most voters, believe makes his position stronger each day it continues. In exchange we offer to cripple his signature legislation...he may need a sweetener on that deal.
You talk about impeachment but that threat will disappear if Obama's job approval jumps higher and higher each day the government is shut down. Which I think is likely to happen.
I could be wrong. I have been wrong many times, but I think we will lose this game of chicken. I think many voters don't watch the news. They watch their facebook page and think they get the news and their friends are telling them that the Republicans are screwing with their kids field trip and when they turn on the daily show Jon says something funny about a "continual resolution" what ever that is.
And when it becomes clear to everyone except conservatives that the GOP sucks...
:vote:
the government will reopen and those voters can get back to their lives.
So what's the point in being anything other than a democrat? You sure seem to have had an awful big helping of surrender monkey in your wheaties this morning.
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So what's the point in being anything other than a democrat? You sure seem to have had an awful big helping of surrender monkey in your wheaties this morning.
We must recognize America for what it is before we can change it to what we want it to be. Change comes incrementally or it is reversed by the voters next elections. Obamacare can be reversed but it will take time and elections to get there. I understand this last ditch attempt to kill Obamacare, but Obamacare is the constitutionally passed law of the land upheld by the SCOTUS. I think the Constitution says you have to pass legislation to end prior legislation. Right now we only control the House. We have a systemic disadvantage in the Senate where we can only halt legislation not pass it. And then there is the twice elected President of the United States. I think it is time to stop fighting that war soldier. :patriot:
We could fight the battles we can win. Where we have broad support of all the GOP and a few of the rats. Stuff like the Contract with America that had popular support at the time. We could stop doing things that costs us elections and we could consider ways to win more seats rather than just considering what is purely constitutional.
Or we could self righteously stand on principle against the majority of voters. Aggravate the real sleeping giant, mobs of low information voters, and demand they get their sh*t together.
Sorry you see that as surrender. But when I see a self destructive error, albeit extremely noble, that I fear could cost us the Senate I tend to focus on it.
Once there was a silly old ram
Thought he'd punch a hole in a dam
No one could make that ram, scram
He kept buttin' that dam
'Cause he had high hopes
He had high hopes
He had high apple pie
In the sky hopes
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but Obamacare is the constitutionally passed law of the land upheld by the SCOTUS.
I thought you were smarter than that. Obama has already unconstitutionally re-written most of the law after the fact to help his cronies, and John Roberts rewrote the law in his contortion to say it was constitutional... and there is much worse to do in life than stand on principle, it means you at least have principles.
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I thought you were smarter than that. Obama has already unconstitutionally re-written most of the law after the fact to help his cronies, and John Roberts rewrote the law in his contortion to say it was constitutional... and there is much worse to do in life than stand on principle, it means you at least have principles.
I'm not going to argue the Constitutionality of Obamacare with you because it doesn't matter to me. It doesn't matter to most voters. Most voters know very little about the Constitution, but the Constitution still allows them to vote. Power is derived from the consent of the governed. Conservatives are always searching for the next Reagan. Thinking if they can only find the right mix of conservatism and charisma one man can fix everything. The problem isn't the politicians. The problem is the people.
The politicians do what they have to in order to be re-elected. They serve us. They will do what a majority of voters in their district what them to do. If a majority want the GOP to stand firm they will. If they don't we could be looking at a last 2 years of Obama with a rat congress.
If the people want Obamacare then Obamacare is Constitutional to the voters. I think we should give them Obamacare and give it to them hard. Let them see it is messed up and let them demand it be changed. Then they will elect representatives that will change it. This happened when voter recognized that AFDC was counter productive to the families it was supposed to help.
and there's worse to do in life than to be head waitress at Denny's but that ain't sayin' much.
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We must recognize America for what it is before we can change it to what we want it to be. Change comes incrementally or it is reversed by the voters next elections. Obamacare can be reversed but it will take time and elections to get there. I understand this last ditch attempt to kill Obamacare, but Obamacare is the constitutionally passed law of the land upheld by the SCOTUS. I think the Constitution says you have to pass legislation to end prior legislation. Right now we only control the House. We have a systemic disadvantage in the Senate where we can only halt legislation not pass it. And then there is the twice elected President of the United States. I think it is time to stop fighting that war soldier. :patriot:
We could fight the battles we can win. Where we have broad support of all the GOP and a few of the rats. Stuff like the Contract with America that had popular support at the time. We could stop doing things that costs us elections and we could consider ways to win more seats rather than just considering what is purely constitutional.
Or we could self righteously stand on principle against the majority of voters. Aggravate the real sleeping giant, mobs of low information voters, and demand they get their sh*t together.
Sorry you see that as surrender. But when I see a self destructive error, albeit extremely noble, that I fear could cost us the Senate I tend to focus on it.
Once there was a silly old ram
Thought he'd punch a hole in a dam
No one could make that ram, scram
He kept buttin' that dam
'Cause he had high hopes
He had high hopes
He had high apple pie
In the sky hopes
So was slavery the "Law of the Land", whatever that's supposed to mean and "Dred Scott" was the cherry on top.
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If this is true, not only will a clean debt-ceiling bill be passed, but the CR will be passed as well.
Why would Obama budge an inch?
It isn't true! Even Boehner isn't so stupid as to telegraph the end game in the opening!
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I never expect anything but capitulation from Boehner, so I would be surprised if he DID stare down OPapaDoc. I hope he does, but I don't expect it.
Right now, I am happier than I've been in years. How many times in one's lifetime does one get to say "all nonessential government functions are shut down?" It's not actually true, I know, but assuming it's even half-true, isn't that what we have been fighting for all our lives? The longer this goes on the better, as far as I am concerned.
As for Wall Street and financial ruin as a result of "default:" if our financial system is dependent on government, then it needs to be tamed, and sooner rather than later. There is so much capital out there waiting on the sidelines for an opportunity to invest in a FREE MARKET that once the market takes a hit and the government has been castrated, it will come roaring back on a more solid foundation. So I hope that happens as well.
Anyone invested in stocks and bonds is invested in OPapaDoc, Bernanke and our corrupt Treasury Department. They deserve what they get.
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I never expect anything but capitulation from Boehner, so I would be surprised if he DID stare down OPapaDoc. I hope he does, but I don't expect it.
Right now, I am happier than I've been in years. How many times in one's lifetime does one get to say "all nonessential government functions are shut down?" It's not actually true, I know, but assuming it's even half-true, isn't that what we have been fighting for all our lives? The longer this goes on the better, as far as I am concerned.
As for Wall Street and financial ruin as a result of "default:" if our financial system is dependent on government, then it needs to be tamed, and sooner rather than later. There is so much capital out there waiting on the sidelines for an opportunity to invest in a FREE MARKET that once the market takes a hit and the government has been castrated, it will come roaring back on a more solid foundation. So I hope that happens as well.
Anyone invested in stocks and bonds is invested in OPapaDoc, Bernanke and our corrupt Treasury Department. They deserve what they get.
There isn't going to be any default despite all the prognostications to the contrary!
The 14th amendment REQUIRES that our debt service be paid first and it is a simple fact that Boehner ignores, that Obama’s Treasury Department can and will ONLY default on paying any immediate U.S. debt obligations BY CHOICE, by CHOOSING to NOT PAY those debt obligations BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE.
THAT WILL NOT BE any fault of Congress not raising the debt ceiling, but merely Obama’s choice to keep spending on other things instead of putting other things on the back burner so that if nothing else the debt obligations are paid and that, ladies and gentlemen would be an impeachable offense.
Here are sections 4 and 5 of the 14th amendment for reference:
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
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There isn't going to be any default despite all the prognostications to the contrary!
I'm well aware. That's why I put default in quotes. More fear-mongering. Nothing would make me, or our financial markets, happier in the long run than the US government having to spend within its means. Not extending the debt limit would have this effect, and would be better news than the so-called "shut down."
I just think everyone has it backasswards. Why is it less irresponsible to borrow trillions of dollars than to cut the budget?
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I'm well aware. That's why I put default in quotes. More fear-mongering. Nothing would make me, or our financial markets, happier in the long run than the US government having to spend within its means. Not extending the debt limit would have this effect, and would be better news than the so-called "shut down."
I just think everyone has it backasswards. Why is it less irresponsible to borrow trillions of dollars than to cut the budget?
:amen: :amen: and :amen:
:beer:
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THAT WILL NOT BE any fault of Congress not raising the debt ceiling, but merely Obama’s choice to keep spending on other things instead of putting other things on the back burner so that if nothing else the debt obligations are paid and that, ladies and gentlemen would be an impeachable offense.
Yeah, but the reason that the first black president was installed is because he is unimpeachable. Being unimpeachable means that he can ignore the Constitution at will.
The only hope is for the red states to start taking back their corners of the country and let the blue states circle the bowl...
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The full damage of Obamacare will not be felt until the delayed business mandate kicks in after the elections. Then Obama just needs to coast to 2016 and watch the fruits of his legacy. Something Obama truly believes will be glorious.
Do you believe that Obama thinks he is losing this battle? I believe Obama thinks standing up against the GOP gives him gravitas. He might even be enjoying, a little bit, the blatant closings of government property to the public. I think he thinks the people who are inconvenienced by the shutdown will blame the GOP.
If that's true, how do we negotiate with Obama? We offer to stop a shut-down that Obama, and it looks to me like most voters, believe makes his position stronger each day it continues. In exchange we offer to cripple his signature legislation...he may need a sweetener on that deal.
You talk about impeachment but that threat will disappear if Obama's job approval jumps higher and higher each day the government is shut down. Which I think is likely to happen.
I could be wrong. I have been wrong many times, but I think we will lose this game of chicken. I think many voters don't watch the news. They watch their facebook page and think they get the news and their friends are telling them that the Republicans are screwing with their kids field trip and when they turn on the daily show Jon says something funny about a "continual resolution" what ever that is.
And when it becomes clear to everyone except conservatives that the GOP sucks...
:vote:
the government will reopen and those voters can get back to their lives.
We've already lost. Boehner's not even talking about delay to any part of Obamacare any longer. Instead, he's focused on getting some tax reform and spending cuts out of a debt ceiling deal.
The only ones who don't realize this thing is over are the die hards. Boehner's preparing to get out of this mess, even if it costs him the speakership.
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If the people want Obamacare then Obamacare is Constitutional to the voters.
Good thing Republicans didn't believe that when they fought SLAVERY!
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Good thing Republicans didn't believe that when they fought SLAVERY!
Slavery was Constitutional until it was overturned by the 13th Amendment.
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Slavery was Constitutional until it was overturned by the 13th Amendment.
But you would have probably fought against overturning it, too.
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But you would have probably fought against overturning it, too.
You love the ad hominems when you're losing an argument.
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But you would have probably fought against overturning it, too.
:silly:
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You love the ad hominems when you're losing an argument.
I'm not losing anything, I am actually supporting what they are doing and I have a spine unlike you who folds rather than stand for something, but I still think there is a LOT more to your insistence on Obamacare staying in place and your anger at Cruz, Lee etc., is rooted in them trying to stop it.
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I'm not losing anything, I am actually supporting what they are doing and I have a spine unlike you who folds rather than stand for something, but I still think there is a LOT more to your insistence on Obamacare staying in place and your anger at Cruz, Lee etc., is rooted in them trying to stop it.
Do you not understand? CRUZ AND LEE LOST!!! The idea that Obamacare was going to be defunded or delayed wholesale was stupid going in and lots of people knew it. Lee and Cruz didn't, but they know it now.
I'm not angry at Cruz or Lee. They just picked the wrong hill to die on.
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They have not lost anything, no matter how many times you say it, doesn't make it so.
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They have not lost anything, no matter how many times you say it, doesn't make it so.
They didn't get what they shutdown the government over. Call it whatever you want.
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They didn't get what they shutdown the government over. Call it whatever you want.
If I may be so bold as to correct that statement:
They haven't gotten what they want YET but the battle is FAR from over!
Sink is just projecting his wishful thinking again. In fact this is going to help conservatives significantly in 2014.. already people are using this against red state Democrats - case in point
(https://gallery.mailchimp.com/07723e98797e06bc04f1dd841/images/RobManessFacebookOpposeObamaCare.jpg)
and.. BTW.. unlike many in the senate and congress Ted Cruz announced he was donating his paycheck to charity each day the government was shut down.
(https://gallery.mailchimp.com/07723e98797e06bc04f1dd841/images/RobManessFacebookTedCruzPaycheck.jpg)
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If I may be so bold as to correct that statement:
They haven't gotten what they want YET but the battle is FAR from over!
It's over as far as defunding or delaying Obamacare is concerned. Nobody from the Republican side is even talking about that now.
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It's over as far as defunding or delaying Obamacare is concerned. Nobody from the Republican side is even talking about that now.
Your duck is loose! That is all some of them are talking about and will continue to talk about because THEY, unlike you, realize that it has to be killed or our republic is DEAD!
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Your duck is loose! That is all some of them are talking about and will continue to talk about because THEY, unlike you, realize that it has to be killed or our republic is DEAD!
OK. Believe what you want. Boehner is not talking about defunding or delaying, and he's driving this.
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OK. Believe what you want. Boehner is not talking about defunding or delaying, and he's driving this.
LOL! You really can't think beyond the end of your nose can you Sink?
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Oh, my aunt Gertie. I cannot believe this guy had the audacity to say this to another poster:
You love the ad hominems when you're losing an argument.
One thing for sure, what he lacks in acumen he more than abundantly makes up for in chutzpah.