The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on January 28, 2020, 12:01:52 am
-
Trump seeks to bring back Social Security rule changes, one of Reagan's worst ideas
By Lowell Arye, Opinion Contributor — 01/27/20 06:30 PM EST
The Trump administration is proposing regulations that will hurt many of our most vulnerable fellow citizens. These regulations would increase the frequency and toughen the process for Continuing Disability Reviews (CDRs) for those receiving Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income. If finalized, these regulations will harm beneficiaries in a way which has not been seen since the Reagan administration purge of the disability rolls in the 1980s.
The eligibility criteria for disability benefits is one of the most restrictive in the developed world. The burden is on the individuals applying for benefits to demonstrate that they have such significant disabilities that they cannot support themselves through work doing any work anywhere in the nation. The benefits, which include health insurance, are lifesaving for those who receive them.
In the early 1980s, the Reagan administration, through sub-regulatory guidelines, changed the burden of proof for those already having qualified for disability benefits. With this change, they needed to prove a negative: that they had not medically improved sufficiently to no longer qualify for benefits. But the states (which determine disability for the Social Security Administration) and the federal courts (up to the Supreme Court) stepped in to modify and stop the harmful policy.
more
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/480182-trump-seeks-to-bring-back-social-security-rule-changes-one-of
-
Trump seeks to bring back Social Security rule changes, one of Reagan's worst ideas
By Lowell Arye, Opinion Contributor — 01/27/20 06:30 PM EST
The Trump administration is proposing regulations that will hurt many of our most vulnerable fellow citizens. These regulations would increase the frequency and toughen the process for Continuing Disability Reviews (CDRs) for those receiving Social Security Disability Insurance (SSDI) and Supplemental Security Income. If finalized, these regulations will harm beneficiaries in a way which has not been seen since the Reagan administration purge of the disability rolls in the 1980s.
The eligibility criteria for disability benefits is one of the most restrictive in the developed world. The burden is on the individuals applying for benefits to demonstrate that they have such significant disabilities that they cannot support themselves through work doing any work anywhere in the nation. The benefits, which include health insurance, are lifesaving for those who receive them.
In the early 1980s, the Reagan administration, through sub-regulatory guidelines, changed the burden of proof for those already having qualified for disability benefits. With this change, they needed to prove a negative: that they had not medically improved sufficiently to no longer qualify for benefits. But the states (which determine disability for the Social Security Administration) and the federal courts (up to the Supreme Court) stepped in to modify and stop the harmful policy.
more
https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/480182-trump-seeks-to-bring-back-social-security-rule-changes-one-of
IF indeed Trump touches social security or disability he will lose in 2020. Too many people are dependent on these funds. He would be wise to find a way to ensure that both of these programs remain in tact rather than cut back. Those already on the program could and should be grandfathered in. Perhaps for disability -- a 5 year review and a doctor's confirmation may be in order. Perhaps privatizing social security for future recipients -- but to take away what has been given and from many people who paid into these benefits it would be wrong and I'd say he'd lose quite a few votes.
-
The way I see it, the disability trust fund is in trouble, due in some part however small to abuse. The people who genuinely deserve that aid should be happy to see it protected from the abusers.
Or we could be like Greece and put 50% of of the workforce on disability due to "stress"...
-
The way I see it, the disability trust fund is in trouble, due in some part however small to abuse. The people who genuinely deserve that aid should be happy to see it protected from the abusers.
Or we could be like Greece and put 50% of of the workforce on disability due to "stress"...
Exactly!
-
Show of hands of people who have witnessed abuse and gaming of the SS disability system.
I can think of about a dozen without even thinking hard. You might not give that much thought, but cumulatively, just think what it is costing you every April 15th, and the tally board for the National Debt.
I support Trump's move here.
-
I had to get SS Disability some years ago. At the time, I was told there would be a periodic review of my condition to determine whether I was still eligible. I might even have to submit to an independent medical examination (IME) by a physician of SS' choosing.
At the same time, I was also collecting a disability benefit from my last employer's insurer. Now that insurer did periodically review my condition. No IME, but I was sent forms to fill out and I had to distribute other forms to my doctors for their input.
Well, if there was any such review by SS, I was never aware of it. SS never contacted me and as far as I know, they never got in touch with my doctors. No IME either.
There may be rules and procedures in place for SS to periodically revisit the eligibility of each claimant, but it appears in my case at least, those rules and procedures were not followed.
And that's much of SS' problem. Too many people are getting benefits they shouldn't. The system will not make an effort to weed out the frauds.
-
Actually that was one of Reagan's better moves. It was a national version of what he did in california as governor.
Too many people are abusing the SS Disability system and almost treating it like the Dems pet project the universal basic income instead of what and who it's supposed to be for.
I can't tell you how many posts and stories I read at DU and other places of people that jumped on disability when their 99 weeks of unemployment benefits ran out because they simply didn't want to go back to work.
Don't get mad at Trump at tightening the regulations to try and prevent insolvency in the program...get pissed off at the people who abused it because they were too lazy to work and found a doctor willing to help them become "disabled".
-
Show of hands of people who have witnessed abuse and gaming of the SS disability system.
I can think of about a dozen without even thinking hard. You might not give that much thought, but cumulatively, just think what it is costing you every April 15th, and the tally board for the National Debt.
I support Trump's move here.
888high58888 So do I!
-
Show of hands of people who have witnessed abuse and gaming of the SS disability system.
I can think of about a dozen without even thinking hard. You might not give that much thought, but cumulatively, just think what it is costing you every April 15th, and the tally board for the National Debt.
I support Trump's move here.
:seeya:
-
Show of hands of people who have witnessed abuse and gaming of the SS disability system.
I can think of about a dozen without even thinking hard. You might not give that much thought, but cumulatively, just think what it is costing you every April 15th, and the tally board for the National Debt.
I support Trump's move here.
When I was preparing tax returns, I saw the abuse over and over again. I support removing the abusers.
-
Don't get mad at Trump at tightening the regulations to try and prevent insolvency in the program...get pissed off at the people who abused it because they were too lazy to work and found a doctor willing to help them become "disabled".
I get pissed off at the law makers that have allowed the abuse to continue. It is a given that people will abuse what you allow them to abuse.
-
Show of hands of people who have witnessed abuse and gaming of the SS disability system.
I can think of about a dozen without even thinking hard. You might not give that much thought, but cumulatively, just think what it is costing you every April 15th, and the tally board for the National Debt.
I support Trump's move here.
I live in a poor neighborhood. I can't say I know personally, but I'm reasonably sure many residents here collect SS -- Disability or otherwise. Many of them never worked a day in their lives. They also collect public assistance, EBT, WIC and who knows what else. There are agencies here whose sole purpose is to get the freeloaders every conceivable government benefit out there -- federal or state -- whether they qualify or not.
And I agree that this is a good move on Trump's part. But the thing is, will there actually be these comprehensive reviews and will policies and procedures really be enforced?
-
When I was preparing tax returns, I saw the abuse over and over again. I support removing the abusers.
Without going into detail, I’ll just say I was close to several cases of abuse. People wouldn’t believe what the SSI administrators allow people to get away with.
-
Without going into detail, I’ll just say I was close to several cases of abuse. People wouldn’t believe what the SSI administrators allow people to get away with.
And yet, the sad part is that a goodly number of people who are truly disabled usually are turned down for benefits the first time they apply. They might have to go through an appeals process -- apply more than once -- and even after all that, they could still not get benefits.
I was one of the lucky ones. I was approved the first time I applied. But I had help from professionals who know the right language to use to convince SS that I was really disabled. Most people who try to apply on their own are rejected.
-
And yet, the sad part is that a goodly number of people who are truly disabled usually are turned down for benefits the first time they apply. They might have to go through an appeals process -- apply more than once -- and even after all that, they could still not get benefits.
I was one of the lucky ones. I was approved the first time I applied. But I had help from professionals who know the right language to use to convince SS that I was really disabled. Most people who try to apply on their own are rejected.
I think there is a whole lot more abuse of welfare. And illegal immigrants shouldn't be getting SSD. But I believe they can. I have always heard it is hard to get disability. Some people try and are refused. They advise you to get a lawyer. I know a person who is on it and she is disabled and depends on it. Yet we give illegals free health care. WIC, Cash Assistance, Free cell phone and service. Free Health and dental for the kids. ITIN so they can collect SS benefits.
Many illegals also do not marry because then they would have two incomes and not qualify for benefits.
-
IF indeed Trump touches social security or disability he will lose in 2020. Too many people are dependent on these funds. He would be wise to find a way to ensure that both of these programs remain in tact rather than cut back. Those already on the program could and should be grandfathered in. Perhaps for disability -- a 5 year review and a doctor's confirmation may be in order. Perhaps privatizing social security for future recipients -- but to take away what has been given and from many people who paid into these benefits it would be wrong and I'd say he'd lose quite a few votes.
I will agree with you @libertybele ... And I think the thing that would most help the problem is actually loosening the regulations and providing for interim funding for those trying to get back up, even if it is long term. Encouraging self sufficiency however that works and to the degree that is possible... Either you have disability or you don't. There is nothing in between...
There is very little in the way of assistance into an entrepreneurial state - for folks that could help themselves when no employer in his right mind would hire them. You normally get one shot at reeducation, and if you fall back down, or mess it up, it's gone.
There is no provision for those with high medical costs to otherwise support themselves. The medical leaves the moment you say you are better, or the moment you are deemed unqualified. And getting it back if you are mistaken just will not happen without another years-long trip through federal and state bureaucracy.
Disability is a hole they make dang hard to climb out of... And for people that are quite probably still damaged in many ways, and needing to cope with that while trying to get back on their feet, find no help or relief. The whole thing is designed to keep you disabled - not to help you back up.
-
And yet, the sad part is that a goodly number of people who are truly disabled usually are turned down for benefits the first time they apply. They might have to go through an appeals process -- apply more than once -- and even after all that, they could still not get benefits.
I was one of the lucky ones. I was approved the first time I applied. But I had help from professionals who know the right language to use to convince SS that I was really disabled. Most people who try to apply on their own are rejected.
sounds a lot like the immigration system - the worthy, law abiding have a helluva time, while the unethical are allowed to either game the system or sneak right on in.
As with the immigration system, it seems the primary qualification for consideration is whether one can be relied on to lend political support to big government.
-
sounds a lot like the immigration system - the worthy, law abiding have a helluva time, while the unethical are allowed to either game the system or sneak right on in.
That is true.
-
The best way to 'fix' social security is to get the government out of it.
-
The best way to 'fix' social security is to get the government out of it.
Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen.
-
Show of hands of people who have witnessed abuse and gaming of the SS disability system.
I can think of about a dozen without even thinking hard. You might not give that much thought, but cumulatively, just think what it is costing you every April 15th, and the tally board for the National Debt.
I support Trump's move here.
As do I. I know 2 young women with no descernable sign of handicap who are on ssdi. It really infuriates me. Both are hispanic. They are physicly fine and no sign of mental issues. How did they get on SSDI?
-
And yet, the sad part is that a goodly number of people who are truly disabled usually are turned down for benefits the first time they apply. They might have to go through an appeals process -- apply more than once -- and even after all that, they could still not get benefits.
I was one of the lucky ones. I was approved the first time I applied. But I had help from professionals who know the right language to use to convince SS that I was really disabled. Most people who try to apply on their own are rejected.
It took six months for a lady I knew to get disability beneifts. She'd had a blood clot in her spine and had no feeling below the clot, lost the use of her legs, feeling below the upper chest, had most but not all of the use of her arms.
There was no question she was disabled, doctors all the way to Mayo had examined her, but she got stonewalled.
Try getting what you need as a new paraplegic with no income.
Sure, there are people out there who abuse it, I have little doubt of that, but she was treated pretty shabbily through the whole thing.
-
It took six months for a lady I knew to get disability beneifts. She'd had a blood clot in her spine and had no feeling below the clot, lost the use of her legs, feeling below the upper chest, had most but not all of the use of her arms.
There was no question she was disabled, doctors all the way to Mayo had examined her, but she got stonewalled.
Try getting what you need as a new paraplegic with no income.
Sure, there are people out there who abuse it, I have little doubt of that, but she was treated pretty shabbily through the whole thing.
Sorry for that lady. I've heard a number of similar stories. And it reminds me. Even if you are approved for benefits, you don't get your first check right away. SS has some complicated formula for when your benefits start. I don't remember it exactly, but it's based on when the disability started. Only the disability start date is not the date you say you became disabled. SS takes the date you became ill or injured, then adds six months to that. From the SS disability date, they calculate when your benefits start. I believe I waited something like six months from the date of approval to receive benefits.
I was fortunate though. During the period I waited for the SS to kick in, I had the disability benefit frim my employer. Plus I had some money in the bank and Depression-era parents who taught me how to live frugally when times are tough. Most people I know of who were dependent on that SS benefit weren't so lucky.
-
Sorry for that lady. I've heard a number of similar stories. And it reminds me. Even if you are approved for benefits, you don't get your first check right away. SS has some complicated formula for when your benefits start. I don't remember it exactly, but it's based on when the disability started. Only the disability start date is not the date you say you became disabled. SS takes the date you became ill or injured, then adds six months to that. From the SS disability date, they calculate when your benefits start. I believe I waited something like six months from the date of approval to receive benefits.
I was fortunate though. During the period I waited for the SS to kick in, I had the disability benefit frim my employer. Plus I had some money in the bank and Depression-era parents who taught me how to live frugally when times are tough. Most people I know of who were dependent on that SS benefit weren't so lucky.
What I saw: It's pretty hard to keep food on the table when you suddenly can't walk, can't drive, can't get around to even apply for assistance from other sources.
Not to mention the expenses for a wheelchair, even the pad she sat on was outrageously expensive, designed to keep her from getting compression sores. Her employer didn't offer any disability, and while her daughter did what she could, a lot of friends contributed to keep a roof over her head and get some of the stuff she had to have (catheters, etc.).
I'm under no illusions. In the event I need it, it won't be there any time soon.
-
This really worries me. I know people who are really schizophrenic and can’t hold down a job but if you met them you wouldn’t know this.. but hang around them for a few hours or live with them and it’s apparent
I know another one who has a brain so damaged by psychiatric drugs that they lost over 30 IQ points and again can’t hold down a job because of memory, and can’t be around people.
If they loose their benefits I don’t know what they would do. They don’t have families.
-
Show of hands of people who have witnessed abuse and gaming of the SS disability system.
I can think of about a dozen without even thinking hard. You might not give that much thought, but cumulatively, just think what it is costing you every April 15th, and the tally board for the National Debt.
I support Trump's move here.
I do too, although it may be politically wise to soft-peddle such needed reform until after the election. As others have pointed out, private disability insurance - the kind offered as a benefit by employers - commonly include provisions whereby an individual's continued disability is periodically assessed, including by a physician of the insurer's choosing. There's no reason not to subject SS disability benefits to a similar sort of scrutiny.
-
And yet, the sad part is that a goodly number of people who are truly disabled usually are turned down for benefits the first time they apply. They might have to go through an appeals process -- apply more than once -- and even after all that, they could still not get benefits. I was one of the lucky ones. I was approved the first time I applied. But I had help from professionals who know the right language to use to convince SS that I was really disabled. Most people who try to apply on their own are rejected.
@Applewood
I have said here before that the Social Security Administration sent me people to test and write a report either saying they were disabled or they were not. SS made their decision on the basis of my reports which ran 12 pages single spaced. I was determining what happened to them from day forward, whether they got the benefit or not.
I saw people in terrible condition and I know people here would agree with me about those people getting SSI. However, I did not write a positive report for one woman and she was rejected by SS due to that. I then got a call from her wanting my report. I told her she would have to get it from SS as they paid for it so they owned it. Later, I found out she had already been rejected once for SSI and coming to me was another chance for her. She was not disabled.
-
I will agree with you @libertybele ... And I think the thing that would most help the problem is actually loosening the regulations and providing for interim funding for those trying to get back up, even if it is long term. Encouraging self sufficiency however that works and to the degree that is possible... Either you have disability or you don't. There is nothing in between...
There is very little in the way of assistance into an entrepreneurial state - for folks that could help themselves when no employer in his right mind would hire them. You normally get one shot at reeducation, and if you fall back down, or mess it up, it's gone.
There is no provision for those with high medical costs to otherwise support themselves. The medical leaves the moment you say you are better, or the moment you are deemed unqualified. And getting it back if you are mistaken just will not happen without another years-long trip through federal and state bureaucracy.
Disability is a hole they make dang hard to climb out of... And for people that are quite probably still damaged in many ways, and needing to cope with that while trying to get back on their feet, find no help or relief. The whole thing is designed to keep you disabled - not to help you back up.
:amen: Perhaps some sort of short term occupational therapy to help people get back to work. Unfortunately that's just another cost added onto the existing burden.
I think another area that needs to be looked into is Medicare fraud. Medicare is mandatory. It's a government boondoggle. Once my hubby was on Medicare all of a sudden he was told he needed at home physical therapy for an ailment he's suffered with (and still worked) for the past 15 years. The PT that came was always anywhere from a 1/2 hour to an hour late, cancelled and rescheduled appointments and her regime was handing out a photocopied list of exercises and then went over these exercises each week that she came. What a crock of b.s. She came for 6 weeks -- who knows what she charged the government for. No, my hubby gained absolutely no benefit from them. Her showing up late and never knowing when she was going to pop in was an aggravation we didn't need!
-
Somewhere along the line, we were convinced that the government(s) had to work fast, and when you go fast, you make mistakes.
-
It's like when liberals set these programs up, it never occurs to them that anyone might take advantage of them. And no benefit system is ever reformed, they just layer on one after another with little regard for overlap and minimal cross-checking, inviting gaming of the system.
-
It's like when liberals set these programs up, it never occurs to them that anyone might take advantage of them. And no benefit system is ever reformed, they just layer on one after another with little regard for overlap and minimal cross-checking, inviting gaming of the system.
These programs are invented with a mind to buy votes. That is all and it governs how the programs are administered.
-
These programs are invented with a mind to buy votes. That is all and it governs how the programs are administered.
You left out "create jobs", which inevitably, they do. At all our expense.
-
It's like when liberals set these programs up, it never occurs to them that anyone might take advantage of them. And no benefit system is ever reformed, they just layer on one after another with little regard for overlap and minimal cross-checking, inviting gaming of the system.
Oh... it occurs to them. It's how lib lefties roll (dishonesty). They just couldn't care less...
since it's not their money being wasted and abused by frauds.
-
You left out "create jobs", which inevitably, they do. At all our expense.
That, too. Like a virus, today's government exists for its own sake.
-
These programs are invented with a mind to buy votes. That is all and it governs how the programs are administered.
Absolutely. We are seeing the ramifications of LBJ's Great Society and the whole premise behind his 'programs' were to ensure DEM votes and generations dependent on government and to allow government to expand its reach into our lives.
-
Create a pipeline for your (USA) tax dollars to Ukraine. Get the Ukrainians to hire your relatives for patronage jobs paid for by your aid money then funnel large amounts of that laundered money into your campaign treasury.
THAT ladies and gentlemen it's how it's done. If you can't get public financing of campaigns done via the legislative route you find another way to do it!
-
What I saw: It's pretty hard to keep food on the table when you suddenly can't walk, can't drive, can't get around to even apply for assistance from other sources.
This all seems vaguely familiar...