The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: sinkspur on November 23, 2015, 02:32:42 am
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http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/11/22/457012242/trump-doubles-down-on-claim-he-saw-thousands-cheer-on-9-11
Trump Doubles Down On Claim He Saw Thousands Cheer In N.J. On 9/11
Updated November 22, 20153:39 PM ET
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has shown he is not one to back down.
In fact, when he was questioned by ABC News today about his assertion that "thousands and thousands of people" cheered the collapse of the World Trade Center on Sept. 11 just across the river in New Jersey, Trump doubled down.
"It did happen. I saw it. It was on television. I saw it," Trump said.
George Stephanopoulos responded, "You saw that with your own eyes? Police say it didn't happen."
Trump said: "George, it did happen. There were people that were cheering on the other side of New Jersey where you have large Arab populations. They were cheering as the World Trade Center came down. I know it might be not politically correct for you to talk about it, but there were people cheering as that building came down — as those buildings came down, and that tells you something. It was well covered at the time."
We asked our library to look through contemporaneous news reports. They tells us that that they could not turn up any news accounts of American Muslims cheering or celebrating in the wake of Sept. 11.
A 2007 piece from Reuters about Paterson, New Jersey, does address the celebrations but it concludes that they never happened. Reuters reports:
"Paterson was shaken by the September 11 attacks. On that day, a report circulated on some radio stations and Internet sites that Muslims in Paterson had demonstrated in celebration.
"Paterson officials promptly issued a statement denying the report, and Muslim leaders insist it was pure fabrication."
After Trump initially made the assertion on the stump on Friday, The New York Times came to the same conclusion:
"There were cheers of support in some Middle Eastern countries that day, which were broadcast on television. But a persistent Internet rumor of Muslims celebrating in Paterson, N.J., was discounted by police officials at the time. A search of news accounts from that period shows no reports of mass cheering in Jersey City.
Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said the response of Muslim-Americans on Sept. 11 was disgust.
"'I know because I wrote it,' he said of the council's reaction, adding that if Mr. Trump had evidence of cheering, he should present it."
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I remember seeing reports of Muslims in the Middle East celebrating, but can't recall any stories broadcast about American Muslims doing this. There may have been some isolated occurrences - but certainly "I saw thousands cheer" seems to be a huge stretch.
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I remember seeing reports of Muslims in the Middle East celebrating, but can't recall any stories broadcast about American Muslims doing this. There may have been some isolated occurrences - but certainly "I saw thousands cheer" seems to be a huge stretch.
It's not a stretch. It's bullshit. There were not "thousands and thousands" of Muslims cheering 9/11 in the US.
But Trump will never back down from his contention. He never backs down from anything. He just won't talk about it again.
A man who never admits a mistake or a Presbyterian who never admits he has to ask for forgiveness is a consummate narcissist.
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I recall pics or videos of Muslim women yodeling and children being handed candy and sweets when the towers collapsed.
And I do believe it was in a New Jersey city close to New York.
Then again....maybe it was Lebanon. :laugh:
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I recall pics or videos of Muslim women yodeling and children being handed candy and sweets when the towers collapsed.
And I do believe it was in a New Jersey city close to New York.
Then again....maybe it was Lebanon. :laugh:
It was the West Bank. There were no Muslims cheering 9/11 here.
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It was the West Bank. There were no Muslims cheering 9/11 here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-p1LEBAujE
East Jerusalem is not East Rutherford. :patriot:
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I imagine one of these days this guy is going to jump the shark, but so far none of the outrageous things he has said has mattered.
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I imagine one of these days this guy is going to jump the shark, but so far none of the outrageous things he has said has mattered.
I don't think any of it will ever matter. He's sacrosanct.
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It did happen. I saw it. It was on television. I saw it
Time to build a wall around NJ.
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I don't think any of it will ever matter. He's sacrosanct.
Just looked at the comments posted on the Blaze on this same story, and the cult is not shaken. And nothing will. There is no jumping the shark with this man, and that is what I find most frightening. Like Trump, they remember things completely wrong. The news clips of Palestinians cheering they now remember as being on the streets of New Jersey.
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I think we should consider this video before trashing Trump. I do know that this is also happening in the Detroit area. They live in our country but hate us and mean us harm. I stand with Trump on this issue!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4
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Some American Muslims did cheer on 9/11, but it wasn't thousands and they most certainly weren't shown on the network news. I remember hearing from the wife of a local cardiologist of an incident at the hospital, where a Muslim doctor expressed some pleasure over the attacks and promptly got punched in the kisser by another doctor.
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Some American Muslims did cheer on 9/11, but it wasn't thousands and they most certainly weren't shown on the network news. I remember hearing from the wife of a local cardiologist of an incident at the hospital, where a Muslim doctor expressed some pleasure over the attacks and promptly got punched in the kisser by another doctor.
Ok...perhaps not thousands of Muslims that reside in America, but certainly Muslims around the country were shown on TV celebrating American deaths on 9/11 and that is what has stuck in the minds of many Americans. There is no denying that the attack on 9/11 emboldened the Muslims already here and the Muslim population has grown significantly since then. To me, I find it alarming that the majority of the members on the city council in Dearborn, Michigan are Muslim and it was recently reported that the city itself now has a Muslim majority. What law then takes precedence? Sharia or U.S.? Courts have ruled in the past that Sharia law stands.
We need to seriously consider and learn a lesson from Europe as this is exactly what happened over there, particularly in France. They have cities that are now heavily Muslim populated. How has that worked out for them?
To me it doesn't matter if there were thousands on TV, 1 anti-American Muslim is too many. The Muslim population needs to be well monitored and perhaps even new laws crafted. We need someone who will take a strong stand not only against Muslims or refugees coming into this country, but dealing with the ones already here as well. Both problems can quickly get out of control.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/for-the-first-majority-muslim-us-city-residents-tense-about-its-future/2015/11/21/45d0ea96-8a24-11e5-be39-0034bb576eee_story.html
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As a New York City resident, I remember being astonished and outraged about stories I heard following 9-11, that Muslims in New Jersey were cheering at the fall of the twin towers. I remember those stories, so no amount of media "scrubbing," "like with a cloth?" will alter my memory of those events.
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Trump may not be lying, he may just be a victim of false memory. Most of us believe that our memory is like a video camera, capturing an accurate record that can be reviewed at a later date.
But the truth is our memories can deceive us — and they often do.
Numerous scientific studies show that memories can fade, shift and distort over time. Not only can our real memories become unwittingly altered and embellished, but entirely new false memories can be incorporated into our memory bank, embedded so deeply that we become convinced they are real and actually happened.
Trump has been branded a liar for embellishing his role in the event, with critics saying that as a politician he should be held to a higher standard. But memory experts see the issue differently, noting that the well-documented story, told differently many times by Trump, actually offers a compelling case study in how memories can change and shift dramatically over time.
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goopo
It's why prosecutors HATE eye-witness testimony. Memory is horribly unreliable.
Apropos of people cheering - I saw exactly one person happy and excited about it. The shop keeper punched him - he happened to be closer.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/09/18/northern-new-jersey-draws-probers-eyes/40f82ea4-e015-4d6e-a87e-93aa433fafdc/
In Jersey City, within hours of two jetliners' plowing into the World Trade Center, law enforcement authorities detained and questioned a number of people who were allegedly seen celebrating the attacks and holding tailgate-style parties on rooftops while they watched the devastation on the other side of the river
Seems Trump isn't the only one who saw this.
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As a New York City resident, I remember being astonished and outraged about stories I heard following 9-11, that Muslims in New Jersey were cheering at the fall of the twin towers. I remember those stories, so no amount of media "scrubbing," "like with a cloth?" will alter my memory of those events.
Ah! but you are not a TRUMP hater but you may support someone else. A AMERICAN with a view point that some may or may not agree with. The TRUMP haters will try anything to dis credit him and hope they keep it up because he keeps getting stronger. :patriot:
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I think what Trump is doing here is co-mingled 2 images. There were news broadcasts from the Palestinian areas of mass celebrations in the streets on 09-11. It may be Trump is remembering those images and the story out of NJ after 09-11.
What I would love to know is who pulled the plug on those stories. Did the Palestinian Authority push the reporters out or did the US News media suppress those stories after the initial broadcast because they did not fit their Management's political agenda?
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I remember seeing a video of many celebrating. Now I had thought it was here in America. Yet could have been ME?
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Just looked at the comments posted on the Blaze on this same story, and the cult is not shaken. And nothing will. There is no jumping the shark with this man, and that is what I find most frightening. Like Trump, they remember things completely wrong. The news clips of Palestinians cheering they now remember as being on the streets of New Jersey.
And there were "thousands and thousands." Maybe millions.
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You might as well not waste our time Sink. You been so flamboyantly rabidly, hyperbolic anti Trump anything you post about him gets automatically dismissed as just more of your usual TDS propaganda
Your mistake here was to engage in the usual Leftist propaganda tactics of slander and shameless personal attacks. Conservatives see those tactics being used, are use to having them directed at themselves, and thus get highly suspicion of anyone using those Leftist style debate tactics.
Sorry Sink but you have too poisoned the well to be taken seriously on the issue any longer.
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You might as well not waste our time Sink. You been so flamboyantly rabidly, hyperbolic anti Trump anything you post about him gets automatically dismissed as just more of your usual TDS propaganda
Your mistake here was to engage in the usual Leftist propaganda tactics of slander and shameless personal attacks. Conservatives see those tactics being used, are use to having them directed at themselves, and thus get highly suspicion of anyone using those Leftist style debate tactics.
Sorry Sink but you have too poisoned the well to be taken seriously on the issue any longer.
Says a guy who showed up the day before yesterday and is now appointing himself the class disciplinarian.
I appreciate that you will not be wasting your time on my posts any longer. Can I count on that?
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Liked he claimed to have some information regarding Obama's birth records.....
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Says a guy who showed up the day before yesterday and is now appointing himself the class disciplinarian.
I appreciate that you will not be wasting your time on my posts any longer. Can I count on that?
I don't see him as a person being your disciplinarian rather he is simply acknowledging the fact that in general most tend to shun your liberal tendencies and comments and seemingly purposeful agitation in a forum that is predominantly conservative.
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I don't see him as a person being your disciplinarian rather he is simply acknowledging the fact that in general most tend to shun your liberal tendencies and comments and seemingly purposeful agitation in a forum that is predominantly conservative.
I am not liberal. I'm a conservative Republican. I've been a conservative longer than you've been alive.
I seem out of step here because I don't support the let's-burn-it-down policies of the far right and the Tea Party and I think more can be gained by getting some of what you want now and come back for the rest later versus the "we're taking out toys and going home" government shutdown policies most on here support.
That stuff has never worked and astute a president as Reagan recognized that.
It is not liberal to want to work with other people.
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I am not liberal. I'm a conservative Republican. I've been a conservative longer than you've been alive.
I seem out of step here because I don't support the let's-burn-it-down policies of the far right and the Tea Party and I think more can be gained by getting some of what you want now and come back for the rest later versus the "we're taking out toys and going home" government shutdown policies most on here support.
That stuff has never worked and astute a president as Reagan recognized that.
It is not liberal to want to work with other people.
Number one. You don't know how old I am, so stating that you have been a conservative longer than I've been alive is nothing but an example of your bullcrap. Secondly, more to be gained by getting some of what you want now and come back for the rest later?? How out of touch with reality are you?? Republicans aren't getting anything now to come back for the rest later. As for the government shutdown; that's nothing more than a bunch of bull scare tactic by the left; seems to me in the past that the DEMS have refused to vote for House-pased bills that funded the government - as they weren't to their liking. Thirdly, under law, ONLY 17% of government spending can actually be shut down and those items are usually of an unessential nature. Social Security, Medicare, etc., still get funded.
It may not be liberal to want to work with other people, but it is liberal to place blame on others by spewing a lie and those who are blamed side with them in order to try to get along. You are right. That stuff isn't working.
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Number one. You don't know how old I am, so stating that you have been a conservative longer than I've been alive is nothing but an example of your bullcrap. Secondly, more to be gained by getting some of what you want now and come back for the rest later?? How out of touch with reality are you?? Republicans aren't getting anything now to come back for the rest later. As for the government shutdown; that's nothing more than a bunch of bull scare tactic by the left; seems to me in the past that the DEMS have refused to vote for House-pased bills that funded the government - as they weren't to their liking. Thirdly, under law, ONLY 17% of government spending can actually be shut down and those items are usually of an unessential nature. Social Security, Medicare, etc., still get funded.
It may not be liberal to want to work with other people, but it is liberal to place blame on others by spewing a lie and those who are blamed side with them in order to try to get along. You are right. That stuff isn't working.
As to age, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
As to the rest, we just have a different way of looking at things. If my way is not to your liking, just pass right over my posts. I usually do with yours.
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As to age, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.
As to the rest, we just have a different way of looking at things. If my way is not to your liking, just pass right over my posts. I usually do with yours.
:beer:
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Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 25m25 minutes ago
Via @washingtonpost 9/18/01. I want an apology! Many people have tweeted that I am right! http://wapo.st/1R1siFz
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUhLOyPXAAAVZV9.png)
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thanks flowers. Those are the events as I recall them...
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thanks flowers. Those are the events as I recall them...
So tell me when is your lord and savior going to show the truth about Obama's birth records?
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So tell me when is your lord and savior going to show the truth about Obama's birth records?
Hey...................Trump is not my first pick. edited to add....thanks for bringing it up that Trump did say he had info on the birth certificate.
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thanks flowers. Those are the events as I recall them...
:th_10444:
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Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump 25m25 minutes ago
Via @washingtonpost 9/18/01. I want an apology! Many people have tweeted that I am right! http://wapo.st/1R1siFz
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CUhLOyPXAAAVZV9.png)
It proves it happened doesn't prove that he saw it.
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thanks flowers. Those are the events as I recall them...
If a DEM had mentioned this or one of the GOPe candidates this wouldn't even be an issue.
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It proves it happened doesn't prove that he saw it.
He saw "Thousands and thousands."
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It proves it happened doesn't prove that he saw it.
Exactly!
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http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/261110-carson-i-saw-film-of-people-cheering-on-9-11
Carson backs up Trump's 9/11 claim
Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson is adding fuel to the controversy surrounding rival Donald Trump's claims that "thousands and thousands of people" in New Jersey cheered as the World Trade Center fell on 9/11.
A reporter from ABC asked Carson on Monday if American Muslims in New Jersey were cheering on 9/11 and whether he had heard about it.
"Yes," Carson responded.
"There are going to be people who respond inappropriately to virtually everything," Carson added. "I think that was an inappropriate response. I don't know if, on the basis of that, you can say all Muslims are bad people. I really think that would be a stretch."
Reporters then asked Carson to clarify if he had seen the cheering on 9/11.
"I saw film of it," he said, adding that he had seen the footage in news coverage from the time of 9/11.
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http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/261110-carson-i-saw-film-of-people-cheering-on-9-11
Carson backs up Trump's 9/11 claim
Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson is adding fuel to the controversy surrounding rival Donald Trump's claims that "thousands and thousands of people" in New Jersey cheered as the World Trade Center fell on 9/11.
A reporter from ABC asked Carson on Monday if American Muslims in New Jersey were cheering on 9/11 and whether he had heard about it.
"Yes," Carson responded.
"There are going to be people who respond inappropriately to virtually everything," Carson added. "I think that was an inappropriate response. I don't know if, on the basis of that, you can say all Muslims are bad people. I really think that would be a stretch."
Reporters then asked Carson to clarify if he had seen the cheering on 9/11.
"I saw film of it," he said, adding that he had seen the footage in news coverage from the time of 9/11.
hehehehehe!
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It proves it happened doesn't prove that he saw it.
REALLY stretching there even the most ardent case of TDS there.
There this thing call TV. You SEE things on TV. Most of us remember seeing the images of Muslims around the world dancing in celebration on 09-11.
We maybe some day will finally be able to forgive the Muslims for that, but most of us will never forget it.
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http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/261110-carson-i-saw-film-of-people-cheering-on-9-11
Carson backs up Trump's 9/11 claim
Republican presidential candidate Ben Carson is adding fuel to the controversy surrounding rival Donald Trump's claims that "thousands and thousands of people" in New Jersey cheered as the World Trade Center fell on 9/11.
A reporter from ABC asked Carson on Monday if American Muslims in New Jersey were cheering on 9/11 and whether he had heard about it.
"Yes," Carson responded.
"There are going to be people who respond inappropriately to virtually everything," Carson added. "I think that was an inappropriate response. I don't know if, on the basis of that, you can say all Muslims are bad people. I really think that would be a stretch."
Reporters then asked Carson to clarify if he had seen the cheering on 9/11.
"I saw film of it," he said, adding that he had seen the footage in news coverage from the time of 9/11.
Carson is about to start dropping like a rock especially after Rush basically dissed him on national television.
Then Trump will have to decide if he wants to take on Cruz.
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REALLY stretching there even the most ardent case of TDS there.
There this thing call TV. You SEE things on TV. Most of us remember seeing the images of Muslims around the world dancing in celebration on 09-11.
We maybe some day will finally be able to forgive the Muslims for that, but most of us will never forget it.
Unlike you I have the brains of not supporting a reality show candidate. Who has declared bankruptcy 4 times.. No he claimed he saw the Muslims here celebrating it. Does he have the proof?? Like he had proof of Obama's birth records.
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Unlike you I have the brains of not supporting a reality show candidate. Who has declared bankruptcy 4 times.. No he claimed he saw the Muslims here celebrating it. Does he have the proof?? Like he had proof of Obama's birth records.
I gave an opus, but reading posts like these shows me how far this community has fallen, so I'm coming back to either save it or get the GOZot. Part of me wants to be an bleep like this kevindavis clown and tear the board down even more, but if this guy doesn't even understand personal bankruptcy compared to when all of Atlantic City's casinos crashed, it's not worth the time to point out what goofy and binary posts this guy makes. Is he paid by Bush?
Is that enough to get me banned, Myst? This kevindavis guy is absolutely an out of control simpleton in my opinion. I think Trump is a joke, but the delusions of this guy and sinkspur have killed what was a great board. Now, even with video proof of Muslims celebrating 9/11 in Jersey City, this guy is denying it ever happened because the video doesn't show "thousands." Are there any videos from inside New Jersey mosques from that day? I don't recall any videos of Muslims celebrating when bin Laden was killed. :pondering:
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Carson is about to start dropping like a rock especially after Rush basically dissed him on national television.
Then Trump will have to decide if he wants to take on Cruz.
Meanwhile, the lamest establishment candidate in recent memory, Jeb Bush, and you can sit on the sidelines while he doesn't have to pay while the frontrunners has it out.
Then Jeb gets smoked by Clinton in the general, and it's business as usual for them and other establishment types, such as yourself.
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I gave an opus, but reading posts like these shows me how far this community has fallen, so I'm coming back to either save it or get the GOZot. Part of me wants to be an bleep like this kevindavis clown and tear the board down even more, but if this guy doesn't even understand personal bankruptcy compared to when all of Atlantic City's casinos crashed, it's not worth the time to point out what goofy and binary posts this guy makes. Is he paid by Bush?
Is that enough to get me banned, Myst? This kevindavis guy is absolutely an out of control simpleton in my opinion. I think Trump is a joke, but the delusions of this guy and sinkspur have killed what was a great board. Now, even with video proof of Muslims celebrating 9/11 in Jersey City, this guy is denying it ever happened because the video doesn't show "thousands." Are there any videos from inside New Jersey mosques from that day? I don't recall any videos of Muslims celebrating when bin Laden was killed. :pondering:
....hmm..."simpleton" and "clown" ... that's where the ignore button comes in handy. :whistle:
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Meanwhile, the lamest establishment candidate in recent memory, Jeb Bush, and you can sit on the sidelines while he doesn't have to pay while the frontrunners has it out.
Then Jeb gets smoked by Clinton in the general, and it's business as usual for them and other establishment types, such as yourself.
Calm down.
I don't support Jeb Bush and never have.
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Listening to Limbaugh today, he acknowledged that the Washington Post did run a story on Muslims in America cheering on 9-11 - perhaps not the tens of thousands that he claimed; but nonetheless it did happen and as I had stated previously; what America remembers is the thousands of Muslims around the world cheering ... including those in the U.S. This is nothing more than the MSM trying to take down Trump. Also he played Bush and Kasich' anti-Trump ads -- laughable and pitiful. I'd vote for Trump over either one of those RINO's and I hope he fires back at them with both barrels.
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Listening to Limbaugh today, he acknowledged that the Washington Post did run a story on Muslims in America cheering on 9-11 - perhaps not the tens of thousands that he claimed; but nonetheless it did happen and as I had stated previously; what America remembers is the thousands of Muslims around the world cheering ... including those in the U.S. This is nothing more than the MSM trying to take down Trump. Also he played Bush and Kasich' anti-Trump ads -- laughable and pitiful. I'd vote for Trump over either one of those RINO's and I hope he fires back at them with both barrels.
Actually getting a bit excited about Trump these days...... :patriot:
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Listening to Limbaugh today, he acknowledged that the Washington Post did run a story on Muslims in America cheering on 9-11 - perhaps not the tens of thousands that he claimed; but nonetheless it did happen and as I had stated previously; what America remembers is the thousands of Muslims around the world cheering ... including those in the U.S. This is nothing more than the MSM trying to take down Trump. Also he played Bush and Kasich' anti-Trump ads -- laughable and pitiful. I'd vote for Trump over either one of those RINO's and I hope he fires back at them with both barrels.
I remember a video, not many but they were on the roof of a high rise. Cheering and the women doing that yell.
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I gave an opus, but reading posts like these shows me how far this community has fallen, so I'm coming back to either save it or get the GOZot. Part of me wants to be an bleep like this kevindavis clown and tear the board down even more, but if this guy doesn't even understand personal bankruptcy compared to when all of Atlantic City's casinos crashed, it's not worth the time to point out what goofy and binary posts this guy makes. Is he paid by Bush?
Admit it, Carling, you don't come here for the politics, do you?
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Unlike you I have the brains of not supporting a reality show candidate. Who has declared bankruptcy 4 times.. No he claimed he saw the Muslims here celebrating it. Does he have the proof?? Like he had proof of Obama's birth records.
:yawn2:
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Meanwhile, the lamest establishment candidate in recent memory, Jeb Bush, and you can sit on the sidelines while he doesn't have to pay while the frontrunners has it out.
Then Jeb gets smoked by Clinton in the general, and it's business as usual for them and other establishment types, such as yourself.
I don't support Jeb Bush and never have and never will.
I hope you took an aspirin because you're on the verge of apoplexy.
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Admit it, Carling, you don't come here for the politics, do you?
Carling's the mirror image of me, which is why I get under his skin.
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Carling's the mirror image of me, which is why I get under his skin.
Love ya, man!
And glad Carling came back home.
:beer:
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Love ya, man!
And glad Carling came back home.
:beer:
Love ya too.
You're my brother from another mother..............
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Good news from Trump on this that should put it to rest. He got some unexpected support. Brian Williams came out to confirm his story. He said he was there with the cheering Muslims on 9/11.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/3036056.jpg)
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Good news from Trump on this that should put it to rest. He got some unexpected support. Brian Williams came out to confirm his story. He said he was there with the cheering Muslims on 9/11.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/3036056.jpg)
That one is funny !!!
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Apparently my actual message was lost upon everyone here.
I used ad hominem attacks in that post to kevindavis to make a point about this board.
Are we going to be civil, or is that type of insulting posts the standard decorum for this board for the next year?
I'd like to actually discuss the failure of Obama's agenda across the board instead of eat up each other a year from an election against the most corrupt politician in US history.
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Good news from Trump on this that should put it to rest. He got some unexpected support. Brian Williams came out to confirm his story. He said he was there with the cheering Muslims on 9/11.
(http://cdn.meme.am/instances2/500x/3036056.jpg)
Very funny AbaraXas. Thanx for posting that.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/nyregion/a-definitive-debunking-of-donald-trumps-9-11-claims.html
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It proves it happened doesn't prove that he saw it.
It doesn't prove it happened. It proves someone told police it happened.
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Apparently my actual message was lost upon everyone here.
I used ad hominem attacks in that post to kevindavis to make a point about this board.
The point was clear. Trump's supporters can call someone an bleep, goofy clown, out of control simpleton, and paid shill without recrimination.
People who think Trump is a fraud can't call Trump supporters "snowflakes" without the threat of censorship by the owner.
Are we going to be civil, or is that type of insulting posts the standard decorum for this board for the next year?
Civility is a 2 way street. From this thread...
You might as well not waste our time Sink. You been so flamboyantly rabidly, hyperbolic anti Trump anything you post about him gets automatically dismissed as just more of your usual TDS propaganda
Your mistake here was to engage in the usual Leftist propaganda tactics of slander and shameless personal attacks. Conservatives see those tactics being used, are use to having them directed at themselves, and thus get highly suspicion of anyone using those Leftist style debate tactics.
Sorry Sink but you have too poisoned the well to be taken seriously on the issue any longer.
I don't see him as a person being your disciplinarian rather he is simply acknowledging the fact that in general most tend to shun your liberal tendencies and comments and seemingly purposeful agitation in a forum that is predominantly conservative.
Number one. You don't know how old I am, so stating that you have been a conservative longer than I've been alive is nothing but an example of your bullcrap. Secondly, more to be gained by getting some of what you want now and come back for the rest later?? How out of touch with reality are you?? Republicans aren't getting anything now to come back for the rest later. As for the government shutdown; that's nothing more than a bunch of bull scare tactic by the left; seems to me in the past that the DEMS have refused to vote for House-pased bills that funded the government - as they weren't to their liking. Thirdly, under law, ONLY 17% of government spending can actually be shut down and those items are usually of an unessential nature. Social Security, Medicare, etc., still get funded.
It may not be liberal to want to work with other people, but it is liberal to place blame on others by spewing a lie and those who are blamed side with them in order to try to get along. You are right. That stuff isn't working.
REALLY stretching there even the most ardent case of TDS there.
There this thing call TV. You SEE things on TV. Most of us remember seeing the images of Muslims around the world dancing in celebration on 09-11.
We maybe some day will finally be able to forgive the Muslims for that, but most of us will never forget it.
I'd like to actually discuss the failure of Obama's agenda across the board instead of eat up each other a year from an election against the most corrupt politician in US history.
Then start a thread about Obama. This one is about what the lying liar Trump says he saw on TV and what his followers now believe they too saw on TV. One erroneous ( a carefully chosen word Myst ) follower went so far as to claim there was "video proof of Muslims celebrating 9/11 in Jersey City," and implied kevindavis was a disrupter. This "erroneous" follower has yet to admit he is wrong and there is ZERO video of muslims celebrating in NJ.
Even Trumpbart.com says Trump is wrong.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/22/new-jersey-muslim-celebrations-on-911-unfounded/
However, is is likely the celebrations never happened, at least on that scale. Trump may be confusing rumors about Jersey City with actual, televised Palestinian celebrations abroad.
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People who think Trump is a fraud can't call Trump supporters "snowflakes" without the threat of censorship by the owner.
I call them Trumpeteers. But I use the term as one of endearment.
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Admit it, Carling, you don't come here for the politics, do you?
My point was clear. You just verified it. Notice how you called me out for doing that once, but not kevindavis, who does the same thing repeatedly. You're not here for politics; you're here to bash anyone who doesn't share your obsession of hating Trump. I'd invite you to read your own posts, and how you belittle others, but I'm positive you think you're justified in doing so. At least I knew I was being an bleep in my post to kevindavis, and I don't want to be that type of poster. That was my point. Since you're incapable of being civil, and incapable of whining about the mods, I made a decision about you and your nasty posts.
Congrats on being the first person I put on ignore. Continue to personally insult those who don't agree with you. Your act and others here have turned me away from the GOPe. It's made me see how you all view those who won't follow the gravy train. I'm not even a Trump supporter, as I've posted repeatedly.
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Since you're incapable of being civil, and incapable of whining about the mods, I made a decision about you and your nasty posts.
Congrats on being the first person I put on ignore. Continue to personally insult those who don't agree with you.
The only personal insults I have made on this thread were for Trump...and to call you erroneous. I am sorry pointing out your inaccuracy hurt your feelings.
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Good grief....this is getting way out of control on the Trump issue.
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My point was clear. You just verified it. Notice how you called me out for doing that once, but not kevindavis, who does the same thing repeatedly. You're not here for politics; you're here to bash anyone who doesn't share your obsession of hating Trump. I'd invite you to read your own posts, and how you belittle others, but I'm positive you think you're justified in doing so. At least I knew I was being an bleep in my post to kevindavis, and I don't want to be that type of poster. That was my point. Since you're incapable of being civil, and incapable of whining about the mods, I made a decision about you and your nasty posts.
Congrats on being the first person I put on ignore. Continue to personally insult those who don't agree with you. Your act and others here have turned me away from the GOPe. It's made me see how you all view those who won't follow the gravy train. I'm not even a Trump supporter, as I've posted repeatedly.
I hereby preemptively demand that you put me on ignore too, to avoid your "return from the dead" personal attacks like you have done with Once-Ler and kevindavis on your first day back.
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Good grief....this is getting way out of control on the Trump issue.
Nobody argues like this over Rubio, or Cruz, or even Jeb Bush.
Only Donald Trump can inspire a level of vitriol on even a usually sleepy conservative forum. It's a microcosm of the GOP at large.
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Got it Sink. We should ignore what we witnessed with our own eyes and just join you in your Trump Derangement
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I hereby preemptively demand that you put me on ignore too, to avoid your "return from the dead" personal attacks like you have done with Once-Ler and kevindavis on your first day back.
Once-ler's posts are nasty and filled with personal attacks, as are kevindavis' posts.
That you choose to allow that from them while chastising for just yesterday adopting the same posting style is all I need to know about your intentions. You're here to insult those who don't agree with your opinion on Trump. If you call people stupid long enough, you get push back. Put on your big boy pants and deal with it.
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Got it Sink. We should ignore what we witnessed with our own eyes and just join you in your Trump Derangement
Are you a Trump "symp" too?
This is exactly what happened at TOS, and it will be the downfall of this board.
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Got it Sink. We should ignore what we witnessed with our own eyes and just join you in your Trump Derangement
Did you see thousands cheer in NJ on 9/11 like Trump?
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Did you see thousands cheer in NJ on 9/11 like Trump?
Are you claiming that Muslims weren't cheering in New Jersey?
Odd that the Trump Haters have no lowered themselves to defend the death cult known as Islam in order to bash Trump, isn't it?
Yes, I decided to not ignore you because I don't believe in ignoring posters, no matter what they post.
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Got it Sink. We should ignore what we witnessed with our own eyes and just join you in your Trump Derangement
You didn't witness "thousands and thousands of Muslims" celebrating 9/11 except maybe on conspiracy nutburger website.
You know why?
Because it never happened.
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Did you see thousands cheer in NJ on 9/11 like Trump?
I was residing north of NYC on 9-11 and I remember being upset by news reports (I saw) of cheering in the streets of Newark NJ. If critics want to argue hundreds, not thousands. Fine – be happy, don't worry. Channel 2 in NY ran the story.
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Are you claiming that Muslims weren't cheering in New Jersey?
Odd that the Trump Haters have no lowered themselves to defend the death cult known as Islam in order to bash Trump, isn't it?
Yes, I decided to not ignore you because I don't believe in ignoring posters, no matter what they post.
Maybe a few were cheering. But Trump said "thousands and thousands" not on just one occasion, but at least two.
Who's defending Islam? I'm joining in demonstrating that Trump is a liar, yet you're joining in with people who are twisting themselves into pretzels defending this clown's lies.
I find it odd that no other candidate inspires such bile. It's indicative of the man himself and how divisive he's become.
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I was residing north of NYC on 9-11 and I remember being upset by news reports (I saw) of cheering in the streets of Newark NJ. If critics want to argue hundreds, not thousands. Fine – be happy, don't worry. Channel 2 in NY ran the story.
There weren't hundreds either.
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Are you claiming that Muslims weren't cheering in New Jersey?
I can't know for sure. John J. Farmer Jr. the New Jersey attorney general said “We followed up on that report instantly because of its implications,” he added. “The word came back quickly from Jersey City, later from Paterson. False report. Never happened.” http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/nyregion/a-definitive-debunking-of-donald-trumps-9-11-claims.html
I am claiming that the lying liar Trump lied when he said “Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, N.J., where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering.” and later "It did happen. I saw it. It was on television. I saw it"
It wasn't on TV. By now he knows it wasn't on TV. He is wrong, and knows it, but unwilling to admit it. He is willing to double down on his lie to keep himself in the headlines.
Trump reminds me of Obama, Obama's failure to admit a mistake, and the mess that is now Syria.
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Who will be first to declare me a liar...?
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Who will be first to declare me a liar...?
You didn't lie. You speculated.
Trump didn't speculate. He lied.
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Who will be first to declare me a liar...?
Definitely not me. Happy Thanksgiving!! :beer: :patriot:
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Who will be first to declare me a liar...?
Not me, but I will not accept your 14 year old memories as accurate without some proof. Perhaps you did see a poorly sourced report on Channel 2. I've heard sometimes the media has made mistakes.
The NJ AG says the reports were false.
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Who will be first to declare me a liar...?
Not me, but I don't understand the Trump bashing at all.
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For those who care about THE TRUTH, you can look up "Trump pinoccios" which is a journalistic term for Lies, fact checking, etc.
Trump turns out to make up stuff, but his supporters also seem not to care, for reasons yet unknown.
Facts versus emotions.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+pinocchios&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikiuyKnqzJAhVMzmMKHZXPAQgQvwUIGygA&biw=1029&bih=553
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Not me, but I will not accept your 14 year old memories as accurate without some proof. Perhaps you did see a poorly sourced report on Channel 2. I've heard sometimes the media has made mistakes.
The NJ AG says the reports were false.
Oh, I agree I can't pin down precise details of the events I saw on TV following 9-11. I was constantly surfing TV and radio in those days after the attack. I'm sure in my memory many events are conflated. But the outrage I felt at Muslims in Newark NJ is not conflated.
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There weren't hundreds either.
Are you calling aligncare a liar as well?
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For those who care about THE TRUTH, you can look up "Trump pinoccios" which is a journalistic term for Lies, fact checking, etc.
Trump turns out to make up stuff, but his supporters also seem not to care, for reasons yet unknown.
Facts versus emotions.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+pinocchios&spell=1&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwikiuyKnqzJAhVMzmMKHZXPAQgQvwUIGygA&biw=1029&bih=553
We're now being given liberal media "fact checkers" by Trump haters as some sort of proof.
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Are you calling aligncare a liar as well?
No. And I explained why in the following post.
What is it with you? You're roaming the board, looking to pick a fight.
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We're now being given liberal media "fact checkers" by Trump haters as some sort of proof.
No. Facts are facts, and Trump is wrong on the facts of "thousands and thousands of Muslims" cheering.
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No. And I explained why in the following post.
What is it with you? You're roaming the board, looking to pick a fight.
I'm actually posting in non-Trump threads, too, which coincidentally are quite civil without certain posters participating in them.
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You're roaming the board, looking to pick a fight.
Actually it is you who does this the most around here.
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I'm actually posting in non-Trump threads, too, which coincidentally are quite civil without certain posters participating in them.
Me too. They're civil because Trump is not the topic.
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Think Progress is a hard left site, but did Trump really cite Alex Jones' Infowars in a Tweet?
Trump Embraces Conspiracy Website To Support His False Claims
Judd Legum
Think Progress
November 26, 2015
... Trump links to Infowars.com, a conspiracy website that pushes the idea that 9/11 was an inside job.
According to Infowars, the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary was a hoax, FEMA is setting up concentration camps and Andrew Breitbart was assassinated to prevent the release of damaging information about Barack Obama.
Even Infowars’ article doesn’t support Trump’s claim that thousands of Muslims were celebrating on 9/11. It’s simply a woman who claims she saw a “pocket” of Muslims celebrating. Similar claims were investigated and found not to be credible ...
More (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/11/26/3726012/trump-cites-911-truther-website-to-support-his-false-claims-about-911/)
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Who will be first to declare me a liar...?
Not me! I was in northern jersey on 9\11 and the local news did talk about all the muslims celebrating in Patterson. The reason i remember, is because we lived about 15 min from Patterson and it was a tad scary that night.
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Not me! I was in northern jersey on 9\11 and the local news did talk about all the muslims celebrating in Patterson. The reason i remember, is because we lived about 15 min from Patterson and it was a tad scary that night.
I'm sorry but sinkspur and Once-ler can't accept your memories from 14 years ago if it supports anything Trump has said. :whistle:
They will promptly cite a NYT reporter to prove you wrong.
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I'm sorry but sinkspur and Once-ler can't accept your memories from 14 years ago if it supports anything Trump has said. :whistle:
I can't speak for Sinkspur, and evidently he can't either due to the indomitable will and fortitude of "conservatives." But I can speak for myself...and I already have "I will not accept your 14 year old memories as accurate without some proof. Perhaps you did see a poorly sourced report on Channel 2. I've heard sometimes the media has made mistakes."
Let us just agree, now, to talk past each other, Carling. We're going to do it anyway. :seeya:
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Think Progress is a hard left site, but did Trump really cite Alex Jones' Infowars in a Tweet?
Trump Embraces Conspiracy Website To Support His False Claims
Judd Legum
Think Progress
November 26, 2015
More (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/11/26/3726012/trump-cites-911-truther-website-to-support-his-false-claims-about-911/)
Yes and CBS pushed phony documents, the NYT covered for Stalin, and NBC's former anchor is a serial liar, along with the presumptive Dem nominee for president.
Straws are fun to grasp for, I guess.
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I can't speak for Sinkspur, and evidently he can't either due to the indomitable will and fortitude of "conservatives." But I can speak for myself...and I already have "I will not accept your 14 year old memories as accurate without some proof. Perhaps you did see a poorly sourced report on Channel 2. I've heard sometimes the media has made mistakes."
Let us just agree, now, to talk past each other, Carling. We're going to do it anyway. :seeya:
Nah, I don't agree. I'm going to call you and sinkspur out when you accuse members I respect as being liars. If you can't handle it, man up a bit or ignore me. You act along with a few others over the past few months has changed the way I post. If you don't respect posters who support Trump (I don't), why would you deserve my respect?
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Yes and CBS pushed phony documents, the NYT covered for Stalin, and NBC's former anchor is a serial liar, along with the presumptive Dem nominee for president.
Straws are fun to grasp for, I guess.
Perhaps an irrefutable source will suffice...
did Trump really cite Alex Jones' Infowars in a Tweet?
Donald J. Trump@realDonaldTrump
I LIVE IN NEW JERSEY & @realDonaldTrump IS RIGHT: MUSLIMS DID CELEBRATE ON 9/11 HERE! WE SAW IT! http://www.infowars.com/i-live-in-jersey-and-trump-is-right-muslims-did-celebrate-on-911-in-nj-we-saw-it/ …
6:22 PM - 25 Nov 2015
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The irony of someone linking "Thinkprogress.org" to attack Trump isn't lost on me. :silly:
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Perhaps an irrefutable source will suffice...
did Trump really cite Alex Jones' Infowars in a Tweet?
It's a fact that there were Muslims who celebrated in New Jersey on 9/11. Whether there were "thousands and thousands" is another question, but watching so-called "conservatives" go insane over this and defend Muslims is quite the sight for me.
Do you support bringing in all of these "refugees," too?
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Nah, I don't agree. I'm going to call you and sinkspur out when you accuse members I respect as being liars. If you can't handle it, man up a bit or ignore me. You act along with a few others over the past few months has changed the way I post. If you don't respect posters who support Trump (I don't), why would you deserve my respect?
As I talked past you before, Sinkspur has been banned by cowards. You already know that calling him out is disingenuously futile. It is my opinion that Sinkspur's lessors could not fight for themselves, so he needed to be silenced. Truly pathetic of those who clicked "notify" and a black mark upon the owner.
I have not accused anyone on this forum of being a liar. I have called Trump a liar, perhaps the prince of lies, and to call him a liar is unfair to other liars. But nice job on your own 'straw' man. It was very good.
Hard as it maybe for you to believe, Carling, I do not view you as my enemy. I would never put you on ignore. I have agreed with you countless times, but it was unnecessary to respond because you made "our" point with force and clarity. When we disagree I have always seen you as a sparing partner. Helping me to fine tune my argument and my opinion. I have always respected you, and I have even apologized to you on a few occasions when I realized I was hitting below the belt. I do not ask or expect you to reciprocate my admiration for you.
I am saddened that we are at loggerheads over Trump, but I have no control over you. I can only control myself, and I am not angry, just gobsmacked at what I see as self-destructive behavior of people I respect, within the GOP, and dismayed that I thought I knew them better.
As proof of my sincerity, Carling, and my admiration for your intellect and judgement...tell me to leave, and I will leave. If you truly believe that I am a disruptor...that I am not 100% invested in making America better for my children, and all of us...tell me to go and I will leave you to your echo chamber.
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It's a fact that there were Muslims who celebrated in New Jersey on 9/11.
It is not a fact. It was reported. Those 2 things are not synonymous.
Do you support bringing in all of these "refugees," too?
Yes, God help me.
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!" - "The New Colossus" Emma Lazarus
"I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind it was a tall, proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, windswept, God-blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace; a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity. And if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here. That's how I saw it, and see it still." - President Reagan's farewell address
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As I talked past you before, Sinkspur has been banned by cowards. You already know that calling him out is disingenuously futile. It is my opinion that Sinkspur's lessors could not fight for themselves, so he needed to be silenced. Truly pathetic of those who clicked "notify" and a black mark upon the owner.
I have not accused anyone on this forum of being a liar. I have called Trump a liar, perhaps the prince of lies, and to call him a liar is unfair to other liars. But nice job on your own 'straw' man. It was very good.
Hard as it maybe for you to believe, Carling, I do not view you as my enemy. I would never put you on ignore. I have agreed with you countless times, but it was unnecessary to respond because you made "our" point with force and clarity. When we disagree I have always seen you as a sparing partner. Helping me to fine tune my argument and my opinion. I have always respected you, and I have even apologized to you on a few occasions when I realized I was hitting below the belt. I do not ask or expect you to reciprocate my admiration for you.
I am saddened that we are at loggerheads over Trump, but I have no control over you. I can only control myself, and I am not angry, just gobsmacked at what I see as self-destructive behavior of people I respect, within the GOP, and dismayed that I thought I knew them better.
As proof of my sincerity, Carling, and my admiration for your intellect and judgement...tell me to leave, and I will leave. If you truly believe that I am a disruptor...that I am not 100% invested in making America better for my children, and all of us...tell me to go and I will leave you to your echo chamber.
Mystery is not a COWARD!!! If anything she is a most gracious host. More so than I am which is why she runs the place. I like sink regardless of his same ole song, different candidate, different year BS. But you don't spit on your host!
Sinkspur was suspended for a couple of days, as is done often when he needs a break. He is always suspended for the same reason and is attacking Mystery or speaking to her in a hateful manor, as in not listening to her.
It usually happens during the primaries regardless if presidential election or not.
It is no big deal and I think he wears it as a badge of honor, which is why he taunts her to do it. :beer:
It is no big deal.
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As I talked past you before, Sinkspur has been banned by cowards. You already know that calling him out is disingenuously futile. It is my opinion that Sinkspur's lessors could not fight for themselves, so he needed to be silenced. Truly pathetic of those who clicked "notify" and a black mark upon the owner.
I have not accused anyone on this forum of being a liar. I have called Trump a liar, perhaps the prince of lies, and to call him a liar is unfair to other liars. But nice job on your own 'straw' man. It was very good.
Hard as it maybe for you to believe, Carling, I do not view you as my enemy. I would never put you on ignore. I have agreed with you countless times, but it was unnecessary to respond because you made "our" point with force and clarity. When we disagree I have always seen you as a sparing partner. Helping me to fine tune my argument and my opinion. I have always respected you, and I have even apologized to you on a few occasions when I realized I was hitting below the belt. I do not ask or expect you to reciprocate my admiration for you.
I am saddened that we are at loggerheads over Trump, but I have no control over you. I can only control myself, and I am not angry, just gobsmacked at what I see as self-destructive behavior of people I respect, within the GOP, and dismayed that I thought I knew them better.
As proof of my sincerity, Carling, and my admiration for your intellect and judgement...tell me to leave, and I will leave. If you truly believe that I am a disruptor...that I am not 100% invested in making America better for my children, and all of us...tell me to go and I will leave you to your echo chamber.
I had no idea sinkspur had been banned. Good for the mods here for doing so. I hope it's just a suspension and he comes back after clearing his head a bit.
I'm not a Trump supporter, I think he's a clown, but reading some of the ad hominem vitriol here toward posters who merely won't join in the hatred of him has lowered the level of debate on this board. I'm not a Christian,and I don't turn the other cheek, so I've changed how I post to those who I feel disrespect people that don't at all deserve it. That's a fault of mine. I'm a fighter and have had to make something of myself from very humble beginnings, and it's my instinct to voice my opinion about what I think is right.
I've appreciated your posts as well for years, and do respect you. It saddens me to see such a change in posters I've respected for almost three years here, and many more on TOS. I agreed with sinkspur much more than I ever disagreed with him here, but seeing the same behavior and personal insult outbursts that ultimately led to me being banned at TOS for literally calling out JimRob on his hypocrisy has my defenses up.
NONE of us are happy with where we're going right now with the country we love. I literally believe we have an enemy to this country in the White House, and I admit I get upset when the focus is on a man who obviously loves America in Trump (even though I feel he's an egotistical doofus) than it is a lying, hateful, and ugly to her core person in Hillary Clinton, or the traitor who sleeps in the house I pay for him to sleep in every night as he literally is bringing terrorists into the USA.
I hope that makes sense. Families have disagreements, and I apologize if I've gone too far with you, because I know your head and heart are in the right place. I'd never want you to leave here. I'd just like to see a little more civility, and I hope that my extreme change in posting made that point. We'll make it through the primary season, and yes, I'll even vote for Jeb or Kasich if it comes to it, not that it matters here in Oregon.
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Mystery is not a COWARD!!! If anything she is a most gracious host. More so than I am which is why she runs the place. I like sink regardless of his same ole song, different candidate, different year BS. But you don't spit on your host!
Sinkspur was suspended for a couple of days, as is done often when he needs a break. He is always suspended for the same reason and is attacking Mystery or speaking to her in a hateful manor, as in not listening to her.
It usually happens during the primaries regardless if presidential election or not.
It is no big deal and I think he wears it as a badge of honor, which is why he taunts her to do it. :beer:
It is no big deal.
Wells said, Repub4Truz.
Sinkspur brought this suspension on himself by his boorish behavior, particularly toward Mystery. Rather sad, though, that this temporary and appropriate ban should be claimed as due to cowardice. That is indicative of the continuing practice of some to misread (purposefully?) the positions of others, to engage in insults, and to continue the negative dialogue which led to the suspension in the first place.
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Mystery is not a COWARD!!! If anything she is a most gracious host. More so than I am which is why she runs the place. I like sink regardless of his same ole song, different candidate, different year BS. But you don't spit on your host!
I do not envy Myst's job. I am sure it is difficult to moderate a forum where strong emotions and opinions are the flavor of the day. That being said, Myst I think was wrong, and hosts must put up with conflicting egos when they host a party at their home. Telling a guest to a political get together that they must limit their opinion about the front runner is nonsensical.
Sinkspur was suspended for a couple of days, as is done often when he needs a break. He is always suspended for the same reason and is attacking Mystery or speaking to her in a hateful manor, as in not listening to her.
It seems to me Sinkspur was suspended for saying Trump sucks. Myst's complaint was Sinkspur was talking bad about Trump too often.
It usually happens during the primaries regardless if presidential election or not.
It is no big deal and I think he wears it as a badge of honor, which is why he taunts her to do it. :beer:
It is no big deal.
I didn't see taunting, I saw heartfelt disagreement.
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I'm not a Trump supporter, I think he's a clown, but reading some of the ad hominem vitriol here toward posters who merely won't join in the hatred of him has lowered the level of debate on this board.
noted.
I'd just like to see a little more civility, and I hope that my extreme change in posting made that point.
I agree my friend. I think we all could benefit to step back and realize we are ALL angry because this is not the America we voted for, remember that we should be pointing our fingers to the left, and try to forgive our allies against Obama for their short comings.
Have a nice weekend sir. :patriot: