The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: Cyber Liberty on March 13, 2019, 06:45:51 pm
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Just in....
Trump grounds Boeing 737 MAX airplanes
The Seattle Times · March 13, 2019
Trump announced to reporters that he was grounding the aircraft.
President Donald Trump announced Wednesday that he is grounding all Boeing 737 MAX airplanes.
The move follows virtually all other nations with carriers operating the MAX plane, including Canada’s decision to ban the aircraft earlier Wednesday after analyzing satellite data.
This is a breaking news update. The previous story is below:
Canadian officials abruptly banned all Boeing 737 MAX planes from operating in the country’s airspace Wednesday, saying that new satellite data shows similarities between Sunday’s 737 MAX crash in Ethiopia and a previous crash involving the jetliner.
More at: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-analyzing-satellite-data-on-737-max-crash-canada-bans-the-plane-from-its-airspace/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/after-analyzing-satellite-data-on-737-max-crash-canada-bans-the-plane-from-its-airspace/)
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Probably well justified. Always err on the side of safety.
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The press will spin it as a negative.
"Trump Strands Passengers and cripples the Airline industry with New Ban."
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The press will spin it as a negative.
"Trump Strands Passengers and cripples the Airline industry with New Ban."
"Women and children hardest hit!"
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"Women and children hardest hit!"
888high58888
The United States will no longer fly the Boeing 737 Max 8 and Max 9 after an Ethiopian Airlines flight crashed Sunday shortly after takeoff from Addis Ababa, killing all 157 people on board.
President Trump said he was grounding them flights [/b]from both models - 'effective immediately' - on Wednesday afternoon.
Any plane that is currently in the air will be allowed to land [/i]and then they will be grounded until further notice, he said.
Trump said he made the decision after following a with Elaine Chao, the transportation secretary, after new information emerged on the tragic crash.
:pondering:
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Investigators in the Lion Air crash suspect it may have been caused by an angle of attack (AOA) sensor on the outside of the plane which transmitted incorrect data that could have triggered automated flight software called the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) that forced the plane's nose down.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/13/us/pilot-complaints-boeing-737-max/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F (https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/03/13/us/pilot-complaints-boeing-737-max/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F)
Commercial aircraft aren't built for sudden, high G maneuvers.
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...Any plane that is currently in the air will be allowed to land...
That was a nice gesture, allowing them to land. I wonder what was the other option, shooting them down?
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That was a nice gesture, allowing them to land. I wonder what was the other option, shooting them down?
@thackney
No, it goes like this: An "immediate" grounding means land at the next airport suitable for landing your type airplane. "Allowing to land" means continue to your destination and after landing, don't take off in that plane again.
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Boeing has grounded its entire global fleet of 737 Max aircraft after investigators uncovered new evidence at the scene of the fatal Ethiopian Airlines crash.
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727 (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47562727)
This even looks like a new development.
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So we have two accidents on the other side of the world in third world countries, cause still unknown, out of hundreds of thousands of flights every year (so even if design, probability is virtually zero), and they shut them all down.
Yeah, nothing smells weird here....
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So we have two accidents on the other side of the world in third world countries, cause still unknown, out of hundreds of thousands of flights every year (so even if design, probability is virtually zero), and they shut them all down.
Yeah, nothing smells weird here....
Canada and Australia grounded the flights, when the first world countries are grounding the plane, that's a bit beyond crashes in third world countries. Also, apparently from the air, they are spotting some similarity to the two crashes.
Norway wants compensation for their planes, Vietnam (Vietjet) is probably going to cancel their $25 billion contract with Boeing.
So, I'd kind of wonder what the nothing smells weird is about?
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So we have two accidents on the other side of the world in third world countries, cause still unknown, out of hundreds of thousands of flights every year (so even if design, probability is virtually zero), and they shut them all down.
Yeah, nothing smells weird here....
Is it possible that they know something you don't? Just asking.
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I suppose the grounding is necessary until we know what's what. But it's already affecting flights here locally and probably all over. Southwest Airlines was particularly mentioned on our local news. Several flights tomorrow are canceled.
If you're flying, check to see if your flight is going.
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So we have two accidents on the other side of the world in third world countries, cause still unknown, out of hundreds of thousands of flights every year (so even if design, probability is virtually zero), and they shut them all down.
Yeah, nothing smells weird here....
Nothing smells weird. There appears to be a nontrivial possibility that a defect in the plane brought them both down. Prudence dictates they be grounded.
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With the Ethiopia plane that augered in. I betting on the cause will be pilot error/inexperience. The guy only had a few hours in the left seat.
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Nothing smells weird. There appears to be a nontrivial possibility that a defect in the plane brought them both down. Prudence dictates they be grounded.
Catfish Rule No. 1 in investing. Buy good sound companies during their crisises, while everyone else is hitting the exits. Bought today @ $370/sh
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So we have two accidents on the other side of the world in third world countries, cause still unknown, out of hundreds of thousands of flights every year (so even if design, probability is virtually zero), and they shut them all down.
Yeah, nothing smells weird here....
Doesn't sound weird to me. The two planes went down the same way, and they had already suspected the computers crashed the planes. The Pilots are afraid to fly them.
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Doesn't sound weird to me. The two planes went down the same way, and they had already suspected the computers crashed the planes. The Pilots are afraid to fly them.
Pilots ain't scared. They work the problem.
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Doesn't sound weird to me. The two planes went down the same way, and they had already suspected the computers crashed the planes. The Pilots are afraid to fly them.
It depends. Sometimes, human error contributes to the problem, if the wrong corrective actions are taken.
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://youtube.com/watch?v=y1kPAWVI5UA#)
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Let's just see what the investigation finds.
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Pilots ain't scared. They work the problem.
American pilots do. Muzzie pilots crash them on purpose.
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Let's just see what the investigation finds.
Russia colluded with Trump.
Case closed.
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American pilots do. Muzzie pilots crash them on purpose.
They do have history in that regard.
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They do have history in that regard.
And we train them to do it.
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If it could be a software glitch, it sounds reasonable to ground the planes until the actual cause can be determined. It's a CYA (from lawsuits) move, as well as to save lives. Might also prompt them to find the cause more quickly....?
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That's what I'm hearing, computer, software, auto-pilot problem. It sounds like they have some idea of what went wrong, hence, the president's remark just the other day about planes' advance technology. It does fit in some.
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And we train them to do it.
What's a Muslim pilot's favorite flight assignment?
A 737 Max...for Virgin Airlines!
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What's a Muslim pilot's favorite flight assignment?
A 737 Max...for Virgin Airlines!
Zig! For great justice!!!
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I may be a bit bias because I have been working for 32 years at the Renton Boeing plant where the MAX rolls out, but there have been 371 MAX deliveries with 43 airlines, mounting up hundreds of thousands of flights between them. It is no secret that the plane automatic elevator trim can get faulty AOA readings, and until the software is fixed pilots were supposed to be trained to override it. Turn off auto pilot, 2 jerks to the Left with the steering yoke and 1 to the right and the plane is now yours to fly again. US pilots have run through the excersice many rimes in flight simulators. I suspect these foreign countries lacked the training.
Airbus was not without its new airplane disasters. Remember the A320 that crashed at an air show in France in 1988. The cause was faulty fly by wire software.
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US pilots have run through the excersice many rimes in flight simulators. I suspect these foreign countries lacked the training.
Absolutely.
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I may be a bit bias because I have been working for 32 years at the Renton Boeing plant where the MAX rolls out, but there have been 371 MAX deliveries with 43 airlines, mounting up hundreds of thousands of flights between them. It is no secret that the plane automatic elevator trim can get faulty AOA readings, and until the software is fixed pilots were supposed to be trained to override it. Turn off auto pilot, 2 jerks to the Left with the steering yoke and 1 to the right and the plane is now yours to fly again. US pilots have run through the excersice many rimes in flight simulators. I suspect these foreign countries lacked the training.
Airbus was not without its new airplane disasters. Remember the A320 that crashed at an air show in France in 1988. The cause was faulty fly by wire software.
Some pilots won't read the GD instructions on their iPads.
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I may be a bit bias because I have been working for 32 years at the Renton Boeing plant where the MAX rolls out, but there have been 371 MAX deliveries with 43 airlines, mounting up hundreds of thousands of flights between them. It is no secret that the plane automatic elevator trim can get faulty AOA readings, and until the software is fixed pilots were supposed to be trained to override it. Turn off auto pilot, 2 jerks to the Left with the steering yoke and 1 to the right and the plane is now yours to fly again. US pilots have run through the excersice many rimes in flight simulators. I suspect these foreign countries lacked the training.
Airbus was not without its new airplane disasters. Remember the A320 that crashed at an air show in France in 1988. The cause was faulty fly by wire software.
Sounds like Europe is trying to help Airbus.
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Hopefully, we won’t run into the irony of an accident with older aircraft being brought back into service, while this is sorted out.
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Hopefully, we won’t run into the irony of an accident with older aircraft being brought back into service, while this is sorted out.
The fleets are full of newer 737-800s and -900s, and we are still building them through April. One for every four MAX's. Still an outstanding aircraft that will fill the sky's for another decade or more.
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The fleets are full of newer 737-800s and -900s, and we are still building them through April. One for every four MAX's. Still an outstanding aircraft that will fill the sky's for another decade or more.
Sure, but older aircraft were taken out of service, as the newer were delivered. I doubt an airline can take more than a dozen planes out of service, without replacing at least some. Southwest uses the 737 variants exclusively and they just had reported serious maintenance issues last month.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/19/southwest-airlines-grounds-more-jets-due-to-maintenance-issues.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/19/southwest-airlines-grounds-more-jets-due-to-maintenance-issues.html)
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Anyone want to guess what country makes the software in question? Blame Canada.
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Anyone want to guess what country makes the software in question? Blame Canada.
Shortage of beta testing perhaps?
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I would expect the mandatory grounding to become volentary grounding rather quickly once the FA delivers a Directive on conditions safe to fly, like not using auto pilot below 10,000 feet or something. Boeing stock BA actually climbed a bit today, after dropping over $50 The last two.
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888high58888
:pondering:
"Any plane in the air will be allowed to land"? Nice of him, but ya think? They all come down, one way or another, under control or not, intact or in pieces, where you want them to or elsewhere, they're going to land and he can't stop that.
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So we have two accidents on the other side of the world in third world countries, cause still unknown, out of hundreds of thousands of flights every year (so even if design, probability is virtually zero), and they shut them all down.
Yeah, nothing smells weird here....
I am old enough to remember the DC 10 incidents in the late 70's. Over a 1,000 deaths. What is your magic number before we give this our full attention.
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I am old enough to remember the DC 10 incidents in the late 70's. Over a 1,000 deaths. What is your magic number before we give this our full attention.
If the problem is something other than the aircraft, the aircraft will stand scrutiny, and the problem be identified.
If it is a problem with the aircraft, it must be found.
Either way, the problem needs to be addressed, preferably without further loss of life.
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I am old enough to remember the DC 10 incidents in the late 70's. Over a 1,000 deaths. What is your magic number before we give this our full attention.
I remember hearing about the AA DC10 that crashed in Chicago. The
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I remember hearing about the AA DC10 that crashed in Chicago.
That was due to a major screw up by the maintenance crew.
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That was due to a major screw up by the maintenance crew.
Big time, and it was a common procedure. An engine fell off the plane in flight.
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Anyone want to guess what country makes the software in question? Blame Canada.
Canada,member ofthe "Commonwealth of Nations," which means free movement of people.
Canada, UK,, India, Pakistan,, Nigeria, Kenya....just to name some member states.