Boehner, McCain, and many other so-called moderates in the GOP...
Boehner, McCain et al, are elected by the people in their States.
Reid, Pelosi et al, also elected by the people in their States.
That means that the people of the US, by and large, are electing GOP moderates or Democrats to run the country.
You cannot discount or ignore that and expect to accomplish anything in DC.
The people that you detest are there because they were sent there by the people of their States to represent them.
So when you pass judgement on them, call them names, accuse them of treason etc, you are in fact insulting the people who vote for them.
How in the Hell do conservatives ever expect to make headway in those States, and by extension in DC, by basically telling the voters that they are incompetent idiots who have elected incompetent idiots time and time again to Congress?
Conservatives need a better marketing plan.
I agree with everyone here that elections have consequences. But how many of the Republicans who voted for this budget plan ran as moderates? How many of them promised to rein in government spending and bring fiscal discipline to DC? I dare say most of them ran as conservatives, but now govern as moderates.
Elections have consequences. The upcoming election that interests me most is the 2014 GOP primary. That is where the real action will be, because if conservatives can allow the party establishment to thumb its nose at us the way they have been, then we deserve what we get.
Interesting take there...that we're to accept, "we're only doing what our voters want", when Conservatives see their elected officials bend over. With smiling faces!
FOXNEWS rules cable. Conservative talk radio rules that media. FOX' programs sometimes have more viewers than all the others combined. On re-run hours for chrissakes!
Now...do all FOXNEWS viewers share common POVs on all social issues? No. But we all know what going on in Washington, DC today is being done intentionally to the American People.
THAT'S the message that needs to be the backbone of any strategy for reaching the voter.
Stop playing nice....we're literally fighting for our lives here.
This guy I used to work with spent most of his time at work being highly critical of upper management. He constantly questioned their ability to execute the duties of their job, telling everyone how they did it wrong.
His favorite saying was "the wrong people always get promoted".
Eventually, he made it a point to tell the owner of the company what he thought about his supervisors, suggesting that he could do a far better job than they could.
He was fired a short time after that. Everyone believed that upper management fired him for having the nerve of attacking them to the owner, but I happen to know that wasn't the case.
The owner had him fired.
Why?
Because he didn't appreciate an employee coming into his office and telling him that he was incapable of choosing the right people to run his company.
Boehner, McCain et al, are elected by the people in their States.
Reid, Pelosi et al, also elected by the people in their States.
That means that the people of the US, by and large, are electing GOP moderates or Democrats to run the country.
You cannot discount or ignore that and expect to accomplish anything in DC.
The people that you detest are there because they were sent there by the people of their States to represent them.
So when you pass judgement on them, call them names, accuse them of treason etc, you are in fact insulting the people who vote for them.
How in the Hell do conservatives ever expect to make headway in those States, and by extension in DC, by basically telling the voters that they are incompetent idiots who have elected incompetent idiots time and time again to Congress?
Conservatives need a better marketing plan.
I always voted for Boehner, and now, I wouldn't trust him to be dogcatcher. Most people I talk to feel the same way. I imagine Arizonans feel the same way about McCain. Most Americans didn't want him to be president, so it's only logical they would be complaining about him.
This country isn't a corporation, and the people have a voice, or should have a voice. The man at the top can't fire a citizen; he is the one whose job is on the line. Your equation of a corporation is not comparable to government.
I always voted for Boehner, and now, I wouldn't trust him to be dogcatcher. Most people I talk to feel the same way. I imagine Arizonans feel the same way about McCain. Most Americans didn't want him to be president, so it's only logical they would be complaining about him.
This country isn't a corporation, and the people have a voice, or should have a voice. The man at the top can't fire a citizen; he is the one whose job is on the line. Your equation of a corporation is not comparable to government.
Yet, I bet you that McCain will be re-elected, and so will Boehner, and whether you like it or not. that is the people having a voice.
That doesn't mean that those moderates are good, nor that they really represent what we, collectively, want. It could equally mean that these politicians are engaging in the same sort of pandering - and, quite frankly, bribery - of their electorate by promising to be "tough" on the budget, but to continue bringing the pork and spending home. Drug addicts very rarely turn on their pushers, even as they recognize that the pusher is taking advantage of them.
Also, people may be electing them, but that merely demonstrates that the American people, by and large, have become stupid idiots, so-called low-info, or even no-info, voters who cast their votes for the same reason that votes in high school popularity contests are cast.
That being said, conservatives - and anyone else who's become disgusted with the pandering and enabling a lot of the moderate republicans in Congress are engaged in - defintely need to market themselves better. It's not a matter of spin, it's a matter of explaining yourself to people in terms they can understand. Unfortunately, conservatives - and many other republicans - tend to try and sell themselves based on what they don't like, on what they oppose, and not based on why their positions are better than those of their opponents.
There's no accounting for stupidity. It's what got us into this mess in the first place.
Obama keeps saying that people don't like Obamacare because his administration and Democrats in general haven't delivered the message properly, yet they've been trying to deliver that message, in more forms and ways that I can list, for years.
Is the problem with the messaging, or with the message?
Is the problem with conservatives the messaging or the message?
I'm starting to think that it is the message itself.
Yet, I bet you that McCain will be re-elected, and so will Boehner, and whether you like it or not. that is the people having a voice.When McCain had a primary contest in 2010 with one JD Hayworth, conservative talk show jockey, a forum member from that state ASSURED us McCain would lose, because nobody they knew was voting for McCain.
When McCain had a primary contest in 2010 with one JD Hayworth, conservative talk show jockey, a forum member from that state ASSURED us McCain would lose, because nobody they knew was voting for McCain.
A lot of people on forums form views of the world, by sharing with others of very like mind. They then conclude they must be in a majority, since everyone they know feels that way.
And living like that, one doesn't gain experience of listening to other viewpoints, and convincing others of theirs.
I think forums lean too heavily on data which supports their desired outcome. Show a negative poll to a political forum, and they will say never to believe polls.
On the other hand, was the widely-held belief that Romney would win merely another case of forum-induced group-think?
The budget deal is not good. It’s not conservative. We all wish it could be better
I think forums lean too heavily on data which supports their desired outcome. Show a negative poll to a political forum, and they will say never to believe polls.
Show them their guy winning, and they are all in for it. That is what happened with Romney.
A poll from Des Moines in the news now, shows Cruz as the least popular with their sample group. Shows Ryan most popular.
Expect this to be soundly and roundly dismissed by the leading conservative sites, since it doesn't reinforce their current crush on Cruz.
Ted Cruz has a lot of work to do to rehabilitate himself into a candidate who can appeal to a broad audience. Right now, he's keeping his head down, going to the Mandela funeral, and will likely seek to sponsor some bipartisan legislation.
Cruz is smart. Very smart. He appealed to his base with the shutdown, and knows he needs to move toward the center. He'll do it, because he wants to be a viable presidential option.
I think forums lean too heavily on data which supports their desired outcome. Show a negative poll to a political forum, and they will say never to believe polls.
Show them their guy winning, and they are all in for it. That is what happened with Romney.
A poll from Des Moines in the news now, shows Cruz as the least popular with their sample group. Shows Ryan most popular.
Expect this to be soundly and roundly dismissed by the leading conservative sites, since it doesn't reinforce their current crush on Cruz.
When McCain had a primary contest in 2010 with one JD Hayworth, conservative talk show jockey, a forum member from that state ASSURED us McCain would lose, because nobody they knew was voting for McCain.
A lot of people on forums form views of the world, by sharing with others of very like mind. They then conclude they must be in a majority, since everyone they know feels that way.
And living like that, one doesn't gain experience of listening to other viewpoints, and convincing others of theirs.
I'm not speaking about just one forum ... a few political fora ...
Exactly. Perfect example of the point you're making was Liberal-Spy. Very few even tolerated his presence here. Yet, we have to interact with liberals at home, at work and at the supermarket – so, what's the good of a talk forum if people only talk to themselves?
Campaigning to the ideological id of your Party and governing from the center of the national political spectrum is pretty much the standard in politics. It's what happens when you join a body of people with converging political imperatives and are faced with somehow structuring national policy.
When you have representatives from the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, Oregon, Vermont, and Delaware in the same governing body as representatives from Alabama, North Dakota, Wyoming, Mississippi and Utah, what policies emerge, emerge from some point in the middle of those two widely diverging ends of the political spectrum.
Here's the problem...
When the other Party has more votes than you do (which has been the case for the last several years), the body will govern at best as a centrist, at worst as we saw in the partisan enactment of the ACA.
That's why I reject the notion that the solution to our problems is to replace GOP representatives to Congress with hard-core conservative candidates, because that doesn't give us numerical superiority, it just changes the ideological make-up of the Party and that is not enough to change DC.
If the entire GOP Congressional delegation in 2010 had been made up of hard-core conservatives, the ACA would have still been signed into law.
If conservatives are to prove to me that they are enough of a force to alter this nation's path, they need to prove to me that they can get done things that the GOP can't get done, and electing GOP representatives in States and Districts where GOP representatives are already in place doesn't make for a change.
I want to see the conservative Republican candidates knock Democrats out of their seats. THAT will make the entire nation sit up and take notice, and THAT will change the face of politics in the US.
Exactly. Perfect example of the point you're making was Liberal-Spy. Very few even tolerated his presence here. Yet, we have to interact with liberals at home, at work and at the supermarket – so, what's the good of a talk forum if people only talk to themselves?
Ooo, I learn something new ... Who ever said you can't teach an old dog?
If saying one thing to get elected and then doing another thing in Washington is the standard then we need to CHANGE the standard!
If saying one thing to get elected and then doing another thing in Washington is the standard then we need to CHANGE the standard!
While we're at it, let's cure cancer!
So, you don't think we can change the standard? The Tea Party is working hard to do just that, along with conservatives, like Cruz, Lee, and Rand. Then, we have congresscritters like Boehner and McDonnell belittling them. Even with all the ragging, the Tea Party will stand strong, and if they fail, we have the GOPe to blame as well as democrats.
So, you don't think we can change the standard? The Tea Party is working hard to do just that, along with conservatives, like Cruz, Lee, and Rand. Then, we have congresscritters like Boehner and McDonnell belittling them. Even with all the ragging, the Tea Party will stand strong, and if they fail, we have the GOPe to blame as well as democrats.