The Briefing Room
State Chapters => California => Topic started by: TomSea on June 02, 2018, 09:44:37 pm
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2 climbers dead after fall from El Capitan in Yosemite
YOSEMITE NATIONAL PARK --
Officials say two people fell to their death while climbing the Freeblast Route on El Capitan inside Yosemite National Park.
Park rangers say they received multiple 911 calls reporting the incident on Saturday around 8:15 a.m.
Yosemite Park Rangers and Search and Rescue staff responded to El Capitan.
Read more at: http://abc13.com/2-climbers-dead-after-fall-from-el-capitan-in-yosemite/3553412/ (http://abc13.com/2-climbers-dead-after-fall-from-el-capitan-in-yosemite/3553412/)
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The only thing surprising about this is how rarely it happens. This has to be the most dangerous hobby in the world.
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They have these new franchises where one can go climbing, Vertical Endeavors is one. you get a harness and you are free to go try and climb. It costs something like $15 plus, for about $10, some sort of extra equipment. I forget. I'm sure it tells all on the web.
Vertical Endeavors: https://www.verticalendeavors.com/ (https://www.verticalendeavors.com/)
I think there may well be some other such chains. One signs a waiver taking responsibility if anything happens.
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The only thing surprising about this is how rarely it happens. This has to be the most dangerous hobby in the world.
@sneakypete
Not really... I used to climb big walls. For all the exposure, if you have good gear, and religiously place it properly, there is little chance for trouble.
Usually climbing accidents are free-climbers... or happen at the top, or at the top of a pitch, where one might be off line for a bit. Every now and then, someone 'rides the zipper' (falls, popping protections as he goes), and when the pro is all gone, pulls the belayor off his pro too. but that is very rare.
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@sneakypete
Usually climbing accidents are free-climbers... or happen at the top, or at the top of a pitch, where one might be off line for a bit. Every now and then, someone 'rides the zipper' (falls, popping protections as he goes), and when the pro is all gone, pulls the belayor off his pro too. but that is very rare.
@roamer_1
Those are the people I was referring to because they are the only people in actual danger.
And no matter how good you might think you are,you can still grab "rotten rock" that looks to be a good handhold,and it's "game over".
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@roamer_1
Those are the people I was referring to because they are the only people in actual danger.
And no matter how good you might think you are,you can still grab "rotten rock" that looks to be a good handhold,and it's "game over".
@sneakypete
Yeah... free-climbing is just prolonged suicide.
As far as rotten rock, if the rock is chaucey, you've got no business being on it in the first place. :shrug:
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As an acrophobe, I have NO idea why anyone ever does this. :shrug:
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As an acrophobe, I have NO idea why anyone ever does this. :shrug:
Same here. Ladders are almost too much of a thrill for me.
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As an acrophobe, I have NO idea why anyone ever does this. :shrug:
@musiclady
I was afraid of heights as a child,so I enlisted in the army to be a paratrooper. I figured that would cure the fear of heights.
Jump school was when I learned people are afraid of heights because at a subconscious level they WANT to jump,and their inner mind is telling them to back off. I used to go into and out of LZ's in the army riding with my legs hanging out the side of a helicopter for a quick entrance and a quick exist,while heaving the ability to open fire and help the door gunners prevent the enemy from shooting the helicopter down. The yards that rode behind me knew to keep a eye on me while flying to and from the LZ because I would get distracted looking at stuff on the ground,and would lean out more and more as time went to get a better view. Suddenly one of them would grab my rucksack and haul me further back into the chopper. If they hadn't,chances are I would have jumped without even knowing I was doing it.
Damn good thing I'm not afraid of getting married.
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Don't rule it out, it might be one's thing. I know, I was in a skyscraper and the side was just a glass window, I was almost afraid to walk up to it and wonder at times, about how one could throw some heavy object through it. I've a friend who went up to the top of a tall building he tells me, being a custodian then, at the building and he laid on his stomach on the roof to look over the roof. He said one of his co-workers or the security guard, was real casual about going up to the edge.
(http://kmaconline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/038.jpg)
I have a friend who would free lance in the four corners region, he just told me he would scamper up but I doubt he ever did it with really towering heights. Lots of rock climbing in that area. It's like the acrobats tight rope walkers who cross the Grand Canyon or something, I'd be too fearful of a wind coming up as well.
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Same here. Ladders are almost too much of a thrill for me.
It's funny. I was able to hike to the bottom of the Grand Canyon (and back up!) Bright Angel/South Rim, two different times, and as long as I was able to stay on the inside of the trail, I was OK, but we were at the North Rim and I tried to walk on a path that dropped off on both sides, and I had to crawl on my hands and knees to get back to the solid ground.
My knees turn to jelly if I'm watching a TV show that shows a person at the edge of a tall building.
I've never been able to figure myself completely out ^-^. but I DO know that climbing up a sheer rock face is the last thing in the world I'd ever want to do, equipped or not.
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@musiclady
I was afraid of heights as a child,so I enlisted in the army to be a paratrooper. I figured that would cure the fear of heights.
Jump school was when I learned people are afraid of heights because at a subconscious level they WANT to jump,and their inner mind is telling them to back off. I used to go into and out of LZ's in the army riding with my legs hanging out the side of a helicopter for a quick entrance and a quick exist,while heaving the ability to open fire and help the door gunners prevent the enemy from shooting the helicopter down. The yards that rode behind me knew to keep a eye on me while flying to and from the LZ because I would get distracted looking at stuff on the ground,and would lean out more and more as time went to get a better view. Suddenly one of them would grab my rucksack and haul me further back into the chopper. If they hadn't,chances are I would have jumped without even knowing I was doing it.
Damn good thing I'm not afraid of getting married.
One of our sons was both afraid of heights and claustrophobic as a child, but he was determined not to let that stop him from doing things as he got older and fought through them both. He said he learned to use the fear to make him better at what he needed to do.
As for being a paratrooper, I always thought that the feeling of jumping would be thrilling (I always loved those rocket rides at the fair when you went head first over the top), but would never ever actually do it.
I broke bones falling out of trees. I don't think I'd fare too well jumping out of an airplane! ^-^
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Speed climbing
http://youtu.be/X5NoSZ0J5GY (http://youtu.be/X5NoSZ0J5GY)
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As an acrophobe, I have NO idea why anyone ever does this. :shrug:
@musiclady
In fact, it was an increased fear of heights that sent me up the rocks.
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@musiclady
In fact, it was an increased fear of heights that sent me up the rocks.
I know that's happened with a number of people, but not with me.
I love hiking in the mountains, but not scaling up the mountains.
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@musiclady
In fact, it was an increased fear of heights that sent me up the rocks.
@roamer_1
That's why I started diving. That and I couldn't swim.
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Speed climbing
http://youtu.be/X5NoSZ0J5GY (http://youtu.be/X5NoSZ0J5GY)
Yep, that made me queasy. Ugh.
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@sneakypete
Not really... I used to climb big walls. For all the exposure, if you have good gear, and religiously place it properly, there is little chance for trouble.
Usually climbing accidents are free-climbers... or happen at the top, or at the top of a pitch, where one might be off line for a bit. Every now and then, someone 'rides the zipper' (falls, popping protections as he goes), and when the pro is all gone, pulls the belayor off his pro too. but that is very rare.
Good gear, well maintained and well placed. I found climbing down to be more dangerous, and especially free climbing, on the return trip. Did one of those a lot faster than recommended back in my college days.
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I believe the most common cause of fatalities in Yosemite is swimming in high-country creeks despite clear warning signs. The currents sweep swimmers over the waterfalls to their deaths.
In some ways, this is sadder than the deaths of climbers. The climbers know their sport is dangerous. The swimmers are just plain stupid.
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I know that's happened with a number of people, but not with me.
I love hiking in the mountains, but not scaling up the mountains.
@musiclady
I never had trouble walking a ridge... or even a road or path cut into a cliff... The old school idea of 'mountaineering' never has bothered me at all...
I was running a painting company when it started, and I was freaking out setting scaffolding about 70 ft off the ground... Then later, a yard light, which involved a 24' ladder set inside an extended tractor bucket... By the time I decided to take steps to fight it, I was getting scared on a 12' step ladder. Not a good malady for a painter. Even though I was more of an executive in that company, I was on ladders all the time.
It took but a couple months on the rocks, and my fear of heights was defeated, utterly... In my third year, I was on multi-pitch big walls, four or five hundred feet up (on a 165 ft rope) standing on an edge no wider than a quarter, with pinch holds or cracks for my fingertips.
And in that I found a sort of ecstasy... I had so very much stress then, and life became such a simple thing on the rocks... Navigation was this immense puzzle and a bit of dance, tied together, and the only other things that mattered was you, and the rock, and God, and the ground. I always came off the rocks physically drained... which was awesome, but more importantly, ALL my stress would be completely gone.
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@roamer_1
That's why I started diving. That and I couldn't swim.
@driftdiver
Yep. Always face your fear. Kick its ass.
I refuse to go through life scared of things.
Except alligators and out-of-control fire. :shrug:
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@driftdiver
Yep. Always face your fear. Kick its ass.
I refuse to go through life scared of things.
Except alligators and out-of-control fire. :shrug:
Diving in a natural spring with a 9 foot gator on the edge cure my fear of them. Still have a healthy respect but as long as nobody feeds them they aren't much of a problem.
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Good gear, well maintained and well placed. I found climbing down to be more dangerous, and especially free climbing, on the return trip. Did one of those a lot faster than recommended back in my college days.
@Smokin Joe
Worst I ever had, we were 2 full pitches up a wall, working toward the top of the third pitch, and I peeled. Hit my first pro, and bounced, and for a second everything was great. Then the pro popped and off I went. Rode the zipper myself that day. Screaming terror... Even though I know that chances are more than good that one of them pieces of pro is going to stop you...
Second to the last piece stopped me finally... And my good friend and belayor had his knife out. What a ride!
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Diving in a natural spring with a 9 foot gator on the edge cure my fear of them. Still have a healthy respect but as long as nobody feeds them they aren't much of a problem.
One of my good friends was an Aussie cowboy who was up here for roundup one time... A very, very capable man. Long story short, he made it back home, but the following summer, came up missing... Found his pony and his camp... found his dog... But he's all gone. His dog kept returning to a spot down on the river - He'd go there, lay down and wait, looking out at the river...
They figger a croc got him.
My fear of gators ain't in my way - Never gonna be a problem... Other than @driftdiver and @RoosGirl will never have to worry about me showing up on their porch(es).
And I am ok with that. 😉
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One of my good friends was an Aussie cowboy who was up here for roundup one time... A very, very capable man. Long story short, he made it back home, but the following summer, came up missing... Found his pony and his camp... found his dog... But he's all gone. His dog kept returning to a spot down on the river - He'd go there, lay down and wait, looking out at the river...
They figger a croc got him.
My fear of gators ain't in my way - Never gonna be a problem... Other than @driftdiver and @RoosGirl will never have to worry about me showing up on their porch(es).
And I am ok with that. 😉
Our gators here are typically rather shy, or they used to be until the ijits moved in and started feeding them. But, I live on a big sand hill; if there's gators anywhere close to the house the whole world is in trouble cause we'd be coming up on 40 days of rain.
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Our gators here are typically rather shy, or they used to be until the ijits moved in and started feeding them. But, I live on a big sand hill; if there's gators anywhere close to the house the whole world is in trouble cause we'd be coming up on 40 days of rain.
Crocs are different. Dont mess with crocs
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Crocs are different. Dont mess with crocs
I know they exist, but have you ever seen a croc in the wild in Florida? I haven't.
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I know they exist, but have you ever seen a croc in the wild in Florida? I haven't.
I haven't see them but they exist. More down by Miami but they found one in this area. Much smaller then the aussie ones, not nearly as dangerous
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@Smokin Joe
Worst I ever had, we were 2 full pitches up a wall, working toward the top of the third pitch, and I peeled. Hit my first pro, and bounced, and for a second everything was great. Then the pro popped and off I went. Rode the zipper myself that day. Screaming terror... Even though I know that chances are more than good that one of them pieces of pro is going to stop you...
Second to the last piece stopped me finally... And my good friend and belayor had his knife out. What a ride!
Mine was free climbing, about 60 ft. up, coming down, had been quite a bit higher. On limestone with chert beds. Turned out the chert bed I used for a foothold turned into a nodule in my hand while I was using it for a handhold and looking for a new one with the other hand. Oops. I landed feet first in a talus slope facing the wall, and rolled it out, easily 100-150 ft. of roll. Smacked my left knee on a flat rock when I landed, bruised both butt cheeks with my heels, and went somersaulting backward down the slope and out into the flats at the bototm. Someone was looking out for me, because one rock in the wrong place could have made for a very different outcome. Basically, I walked (well, limped) away, with a little help, once I got my bearings. The guy who was out there with me told me later, that he'd seen me come off the face and hollered, asking me if I was okay, and I replied, "F***, T____, I don't know. I haven't stopped rolling yet."
I didn't think it was that far (60 ft.), but a friend who saw it happen measured it out with a clinometer, tape, jacob's staff, and some trig, and the numbers worked out. I'd jumped off bridges and cliffs into water from 30+ ft. plenty of times, but that one was a long trip down (and every bit in slow motion). When I started falling, when I couldn't get a handhold I thought "Oh, sh*t. I've had it." Amazing how calm you can be in the middle of that adrenaline rush.
I mostly stuck to caving after that.
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Mine was free climbing, about 60 ft. up, coming down, had been quite a bit higher. On limestone with chert beds.
Yeah... Anytime you are falling and have to take a breath to keep screaming, it's too far... :shrug:
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Yeah... Anytime you are falling and have to take a breath to keep screaming, it's too far... :shrug:
LOL! For me, it was just realizing this chert nodule isn't doing me any good in my hand, throw it (done!) Try to get a jamb hold in the hole it left (NOPE!)
Try to find even the smallest crack to hang onto with the other hand (also NOPE!).
(starting to fall backwards)
"Oh shit, I've had it!"
Kick off from the face to maintain controlled attitude of descent. If I hang up on a projection I could end up cartwheeling down. Realize all my muscles are tight. real tight. Little voice in my head says "Loosen up, fool, John Wilkes Booth broke his leg this way".
Start to relax a little,
Impact., left knee hit. Think "Shattered patella. Great way to kick off your geology career." Continue rolling backwards. A lot. Answer T____. Stop rolling.
Left knee hurt. T___ is there, asking me if I'm OK. Answer
"I hit my knee." He asks if I can walk. I reply I don't know, help me up and we'll find out. The knee squeaked and popped and it felt like I had ice water running down my leg, The closer we got to the vehicle, the less noise it made. It didn't hurt much, just felt like it was packed in ice.
Considering that was when any knee operation meant a horseshoe cut and at least six months off, I took my chances and wrapped it in ace bandages for a couple of weeks, and it has only haunted me a few times in the last 40 or so years. The hardest part was explaining the round bruises on my butt cheeks (from landing on my heels) to my girlfriend....who did not climb.
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LOL! For me, it was just realizing this chert nodule isn't doing me any good in my hand, throw it (done!) Try to get a jamb hold in the hole it left (NOPE!)
Try to find even the smallest crack to hang onto with the other hand (also NOPE!).
(starting to fall backwards)
"Oh shit, I've had it!"
See, RIGHT THERE is where the rope kicks in and you miss out on all the rest of that ride...
Screw free-climbing.
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Our gators here are typically rather shy, or they used to be until the ijits moved in and started feeding them. But, I live on a big sand hill; if there's gators anywhere close to the house the whole world is in trouble cause we'd be coming up on 40 days of rain.
Not as shy as me. I will stay over here where sanity prevails and all I have to worry about is moose, griz, wolves, and cougars.
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See, RIGHT THERE is where the rope kicks in and you miss out on all the rest of that ride...
Screw free-climbing.
:silly:
Yeah, that was the last one for me. At least I didn't have to listen to all that >ping<, >ping< >Ping< on the way down.... :beer:
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:silly:
Yeah, that was the last one for me. At least I didn't have to listen to all that >ping<, >ping< >Ping< on the way down.... :beer:
LOL! That's right!
:beer:
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Same here. Ladders are almost too much of a thrill for me.
For me all was fine until I had sudden hearing loss in one ear, along with it went my sense of balance. So of course I left my indoor one floor job to work construction where I wood be at the edge of a parapet watt thirty feet or so leaning over and pulling equipment onto the roof or on a extension ladder twenty feet up. But the absolute best was being in a man lift with my boss with it at full extension of twenty five feet and him rocking it like a boat! Of course he thought it was hilarious because he fearless of heights. He got his though fell off the second rung of ladder and was rewarded with a compound fracture of his humerus. Don't believe that serious injuries only happen when your high. That's high, not HIGH.
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El Capitan, Yosemite, pretty formidable looking:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/68/El_Capitan%2C_Yosemite._%285742414416%29.jpg)
(https://www.yosemite.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/El-Capitan-_Yosemite-Mariposa-Slide_-Photo-by-Chris-Migeon-700x425.jpg)
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For me all was fine until I had sudden hearing loss in one ear, along with it went my sense of balance. So of course I left my indoor one floor job to work construction where I wood be at the edge of a parapet watt thirty feet or so leaning over and pulling equipment onto the roof or on a extension ladder twenty feet up. But the absolute best was being in a man lift with my boss with it at full extension of twenty five feet and him rocking it like a boat! Of course he thought it was hilarious because he fearless of heights. He got his though fell off the second rung of ladder and was rewarded with a compound fracture of his humerus. Don't believe that serious injuries only happen when your high. That's high, not HIGH.
See. I'm right to feel the way I do about ladders.
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See. I'm right to feel the way I do about ladders.
I used to routinely step off one rung early..................then I stopped wearing my glasses on the way down, stupid blended bi-focals!
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I didn't think it was that far (60 ft.), but a friend who saw it happen measured it out with a clinometer, tape, jacob's staff, and some trig, and the numbers worked out.
Wouldn't it be easier to just climb back up to the same spot and then count the number of seconds it takes to fall?
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I know they exist, but have you ever seen a croc in the wild in Florida? I haven't.
No such thing as a "croc" in FL...alligators reign supreme...
Caiman in Central America and never had a problem with them in all my years (10+) of swimming in the Chagres River and the Panama Canal.
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No such thing as a "croc" in FL...alligators reign supreme...
Caiman in Central America and never had a problem with them in all my years (10+) of swimming in the Chagres River and the Panama Canal.
http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/american-crocodile/ (http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/managed/american-crocodile/)
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Wouldn't it be easier to just climb back up to the same spot and then count the number of seconds it takes to fall?
I think there is a time dilation effect....
(Or carry a measuring tape up, but the guy who saw me fall wasn't going to do that for some reason...)
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No such thing as a "croc" in FL...alligators reign supreme...
Caiman in Central America and never had a problem with them in all my years (10+) of swimming in the Chagres River and the Panama Canal.
I don't know if you know this, but when using the internet, besides posting to a news forum, you can also look up information on many different subjects. You shouod give it a try sometime. There's a website called Bing and you can enter any subject in the search line and get back thousands of hits with various websites that have information on that subject. For exampe, before teliing a South Floridian that there's no such thing as a crocodile in Florida you might have found this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_crocodile
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I don't know if you know this, but when using the internet, besides posting to a news forum, you can also look up information on many different subjects. You shouod give it a try sometime. There's a website called Bing and you can enter any subject in the search line and get back thousands of hits with various websites that have information on that subject. For exampe, before teliing a South Floridian that there's no such thing as a crocodile in Florida you might have found this:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_crocodile
@RoosGirl
Ahh sarcasm in the morning, almost as good as a second cup of coffee.
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@RoosGirl
Ahh sarcasm in the morning, almost as good as a second cup of coffee.
Almost! At least as good as a cold splash of water on your face.
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Just to bring this back on topic here is a video of a climbing alligator. about 50 second in
https://youtu.be/7Qp_bUYPrTg
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At least American crocodiles are "shy and reclusive".
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At least American crocodiles are "shy and reclusive".
:laugh:
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Just to bring this back on topic here is a video of a climbing alligator. about 50 second in
https://youtu.be/7Qp_bUYPrTg
Obviously photoshopped, everyone knows gators can't climb fences.