The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: catfish1957 on July 22, 2017, 01:16:14 pm
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Hey Briefers...
I am in the pre-planning phase of construction of a 1 1/2- 2 ac. fishing pound in my pleasant haunts. As I approach old age, I hope/think it will be a convenient outlet for my fishing habit, as trips to the lakes are likely to be less frequent. Also the thought of not have TPW reps badgering me for my little 3 x 5 license is highly appealing . To me fishing is God granted gift, that a government making people pay for is an infringement of our primal rights.
My question is ... has anyone else gone through this? Pifalls? Suggestions? From what I am reading, I should be expecting to shell out close to $50-75K for excavation, contouring, fill gravel, stocking etc. Want to learn for others mistake. Looking at it as a 2018 - 2019 project.
By 2020-2021, hope to be catching bass/bream.
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pond bkmk
I have no info to share. But I'm planning a smaller, simpler pond, maybe one acre. It may be a year or two before we start.
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pond bkmk
I have no info to share. But I'm planning a smaller, simpler pond, maybe one acre. It may be a year or two before we start.
Water source for livestock? Any plans for fish? Shallower tank like that might be nice digs for a few catfish.
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Water source for livestock? Any plans for fish? Shallower tank like that might be nice digs for a few catfish.
The cows will get in it. We have a slough crossing the property. Previous owner (and current neighbor) dug a big ditch across it and his. My side is dug out 30~50 by 350 ft, guessing 4~6 deep.
It is overgrown with trees. I plan to clear most of them out then enlarge it. Mostly for looks. I'm going to bring it south up closer to the horse riding arena.
https://goo.gl/maps/oahdEefzUaB2
I'll get some fish in it but I'm not a fisherman. I want it deep enough hold water during the droughts that will eventually be back. I've got some shallow wells which might eventually be used to water a stock tank with a windmill and overflow to the pond, but that is far down the road, if ever.
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My buddy did a pond years ago and loved to crappie fish. He left alot of trees and brush in one section for habitat. Went fishing one time, we pulled out 10 inchers plus one after another. Bass and others liked it too.
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Have you thought of buying a used dozer and excavating yourself, or hiring a driver, and selling the dozer afterwards?
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Have you thought of buying a used dozer and excavating yourself, or hiring a driver, and selling the dozer afterwards?
I've had those thoughts. But I find my available time non-existent for the projects I've already started.
I also need to restore some long drainage ditches that are silted in to improve the pasture I bought.
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Check out the Permit Information Manual here: http://www.sjrwmd.com/handbooks/erphandbook.html
There's a lot of nonsense you don't need, but on about Page 77 there is a pond typical cross-section that may be helpful. You can also scroll through to find other recommended typical cross-sections. Then once you look at them if you have any questions let me know.
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Check out the Permit Information Manual here: http://www.sjrwmd.com/handbooks/erphandbook.html
There's a lot of nonsense you don't need, but on about Page 77 there is a pond typical cross-section that may be helpful. You can also scroll through to find other recommended typical cross-sections. Then once you look at them if you have any questions let me know.
Info like that was why I bookmarked the thread for future reference. Thanks for helping.
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I'll get some fish in it but I'm not a fisherman. I want it deep enough hold water during the droughts that will eventually be back. I've got some shallow wells which might eventually be used to water a stock tank with a windmill and overflow to the pond, but that is far down the road, if ever.
If you expect the stock to stir up the tank regularily , and it appears to be planned to be built relatively shallow, I still think standard pond fingerling Channel Catfish and some flatheads are your best bet.
They'll handle the lower O2 content better, and will give you some pond bottom organic debris removal advantages. OTOH, I am not sure of the grade of your tank, but elder catfish tend to burrow in walls. (Git yer noodlin glove out :silly:)
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Unless you have really good first hand knowledge of historic ground water elevations it might be worth your time to hire a geotech engineer to take some core samples in the area of where your pond is going. That takes the guess work out of how far you need to dig down to have a permanent pool during your drier times of the year.
Also, depending on your area you may be able to sell the fill that comes out from the pond dig. Ooorrrrrr....you could use it to build a shooting range on property :)
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A lotta pond info here too: http://fisheries.tamu.edu/pond-management/pond-construction/ (http://fisheries.tamu.edu/pond-management/pond-construction/)
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I've got some shallow wells which might eventually be used to water a stock tank with a windmill and overflow to the pond,
Mine will be out in the middle of the piney woods, so I am skeptical of consistent breezes that would useful for a windmill. And I am close to 2000 feet from the nearest electrical power. (nope)
For a water supplement I am thinking or leaning toward a solar panel cell for a shallow well pump. Solar seems to be working well for my gate opener, so I'm interested in that diretion.
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Mine will be out in the middle of the piney woods, so I am skeptical of consistent breezes that would useful for a windmill. And I am close to 2000 feet from the nearest electrical power. (nope)
For a water supplement I am thinking or leaning toward a solar panel cell for a shallow well pump. Solar seems to be working well for my gate opener, so I'm interested in that diretion.
My husband recently converted our deep well pump for the water for our house to solar. We have a 2.5 hp pump and require 8 batteries and 4 solar panels to have enough power to have water on demand any time we want.
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If your water table is low enough, you just need to dig down to it. I read an article many moons ago in Field and Stream about using ammonium nitrate/fuel oil to create mini-duck habitats in marshy areas.
I couldn't find the article, but I found this one: http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/publication/34473-ammonium-nitrate-blasting-agent/joanen_t._1966._wetlands_habitat_improvement-ammonium_nitrate_blasting_agent.__la._conservationist.pdf (http://www.wlf.louisiana.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/publication/34473-ammonium-nitrate-blasting-agent/joanen_t._1966._wetlands_habitat_improvement-ammonium_nitrate_blasting_agent.__la._conservationist.pdf)
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My husband recently converted our deep well pump for the water for our house to solar. We have a 2.5 hp pump and require 8 batteries and 4 solar panels to have enough power to have water on demand any time we want.
Thanks. Our potable water pump (for watering and landscaping only) is like 440' deep. I didn't know solar could produce power for a pump head pressure to that level. That makes me much more comfortable that my solar shallow well will feed my pond pretty easily. And with quite a bit less horsepower.
Given a SHTF scenario, do you mind telling how much it cost to convert the well from electrical to solar? How about maintenance, reliability issues?
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Don't you run the risk of the EPA designating your pond a "wetland" or "Navigable water?"
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Mine will be out in the middle of the piney woods, so I am skeptical of consistent breezes that would useful for a windmill. And I am close to 2000 feet from the nearest electrical power. (nope)
For a water supplement I am thinking or leaning toward a solar panel cell for a shallow well pump. Solar seems to be working well for my gate opener, so I'm interested in that diretion.
I've considered solar as well because of heavy trees on neighbor property. Thanks for the other info.
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Don't you run the risk of the EPA designating your pond a "wetland" or "Navigable water?"
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First COE (Corp of Engineers) is the regulatory agency for wetlands.
Near 40 years of environmental work here. Wetland delineation is an issue only if you are disturbing a wetland. In my case my locale for digging will be among pine knolls rich with pine, gum, oak. clayish soils, and no standing waters. There are back areas of the property (what we call bottomlands) that might, repeat might meet the COE designation.... but without a true evil eye from the bugs and bunnies guys, I wouldn't bet on it.
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Thanks. Our potable water pump (for watering and landscaping only) is like 440' deep. I didn't know solar could produce power for a pump head pressure to that level. That makes me much more comfortable that my solar shallow well will feed my pond pretty easily. And with quite a bit less horsepower.
Given a SHTF scenario, do you mind telling how much it cost to convert the well from electrical to solar? How about maintenance, reliability issues?
Hubby is an electrical engineer so all labor was "free". Materials were in the $5k range and it's been a bit of a trial and error process to get 100% reliability, which we aren't quite there yet, but have the extra panels and misc to get us there. His initial design was just 2 panels, but that would only run us for about 3 days before depleting and doing an auto switch to electric power. He wasn't sure if use was a little more than he estimated or panels aren't quite as efficient as they claim or we weren't getting quite the sun hours per the research info. Refiguring after running for a few months he thinks we need the 2 additional panels to keep the batteries topped off to keep us on solar 100%. I don't know the details of how many sun hours we need to fully charge the batteries, so I don't know how many days we can run with low sun. For example, one of the hurricanes that came through about 12 years ago now gave us a few days of cloud cover.
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First COE (Corp of Engineers) is the regulatory agency for wetlands.
Near 40 years of environmental work here. Wetland delineation is an issue only if you are disturbing a wetland. In my case my locale for digging will be among pine knolls rich with pine, gum, oak. clayish soils, and no standing waters. There are back areas of the property (what we call bottomlands) that might, repeat might meet the COE designation.... but without a true evil eye from the bugs and bunnies guys, I wouldn't bet on it.
You obviously know what you're talking about, and this is far, far from my wheelhouse, so I wish you the best and a well-stocked pond!
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Hey Briefers...
I am in the pre-planning phase of construction of a 1 1/2- 2 ac. fishing pound in my pleasant haunts. As I approach old age, I hope/think it will be a convenient outlet for my fishing habit, as trips to the lakes are likely to be less frequent. Also the thought of not have TPW reps badgering me for my little 3 x 5 license is highly appealing . To me fishing is God granted gift, that a government making people pay for is an infringement of our primal rights.
My question is ... has anyone else gone through this? Pifalls? Suggestions? From what I am reading, I should be expecting to shell out close to $50-75K for excavation, contouring, fill gravel, stocking etc. Want to learn for others mistake. Looking at it as a 2018 - 2019 project.
By 2020-2021, hope to be catching bass/bream.
Off topic... government interference in fishing is inevitable unless you want to catch nothing but sunnies.
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Unless you have really good first hand knowledge of historic ground water elevations it might be worth your time to hire a geotech engineer to take some core samples in the area of where your pond is going. That takes the guess work out of how far you need to dig down to have a permanent pool during your drier times of the year.
Also, depending on your area you may be able to sell the fill that comes out from the pond dig. Ooorrrrrr....you could use it to build a shooting range on property :)
I like the way you think 888high58888
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What is your water source @catfish1957?
I don't know much about building a pond. But I know farmers around here will coat the bottom of their irrigation ponds with Bentonite to slow down water loss.
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What is your water source @catfish1957?
I don't know much about building a pond. But I know farmers around here will coat the bottom of their irrigation ponds with Bentonite to slow down water loss.
That's a fact... A couple acres is too big for a liner, so Bentonite is next. And that's the biggest thing to worry over, at least around here.. getting it to hold water. I dunno much about it down in Texas but I hear there's a hard pan not too far down in places that sets like iron.
The next biggest is aeration... either a natural inlet and outflow, or a mechanical means, with a pump and a creek-bed, or a fountain, I suppose, that you can operate when needed, or it will go stagnant.
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Have you thought of buying a used dozer and excavating yourself, or hiring a driver, and selling the dozer afterwards?
I have an uncle with a D6 that would love to come do it. Except it is too far away. A few years back his son-in-law was set to build some fence down where uncle lives. Some out-of-state people had recently bought the piece below the one the fence was going on and had blocked access to that land. Around here there was always a gentleman's agreement you could access your land through the neighbor's if that was the only means.
The BLM land runs alongside all of it there. So my uncle took his Cat over and pushed a new road through the sagebrush up to that back parcel. The BLM got wind of it and did some screaming and yelling. My uncle told them they could shove their regulations. They eventully dropped it.
PS: That wasn't the first road he oh made.
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That's a fact... A couple acres is too big for a liner, so Bentonite is next. And that's the biggest thing to worry over, at least around here.. getting it to hold water. I dunno much about it down in Texas but I hear there's a hard pan not too far down in places that sets like iron.
The next biggest is aeration... either a natural inlet and outflow, or a mechanical means, with a pump and a creek-bed, or a fountain, I suppose, that you can operate when needed, or it will go stagnant.
I'm in the black gumbo, heavy clay. Our oversized ditch holds water until the most extreme drought.
The slough is a natural low point. Decent rains send water from all around to it. A much smaller ditch limits it from overflow with in flow but needs improvement.
It is stagnet now. I have seen some solar floating sprinklers I want to try out. I need to clear out more trees for just the ditch. Much more work when we start the pond.
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Many states put restrictions on or have approval processes for the construction of ponds / lakes. CONSULT AN LAWYER!
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I'm in the black gumbo, heavy clay. Our oversized ditch holds water until the most extreme drought.
The slough is a natural low point. Decent rains send water from all around to it. A much smaller ditch limits it from overflow with in flow but needs improvement.
It is stagnet now. I have seen some solar floating sprinklers I want to try out. I need to clear out more trees for just the ditch. Much more work when we start the pond.
So you have no worry about keeping a bottom in it... That much makes it much easier.
So you're fixin' to ditch out of the slough to feed the pond? Think about inlet and outlet. even if there is little flow, the interchange due to convection in the water can drive a lazy current between two water bodies... you may just keep both from stagnating as much.
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What is your water source @catfish1957?
I don't know much about building a pond. But I know farmers around here will coat the bottom of their irrigation ponds with Bentonite to slow down water loss.
Based on topo contours and experience I expect to see significant groundwater infiltration at the 4'- 5' level, with a small amount of upstream runoff. (50-60' precipitation avg. annually) Of course there are seasonal and spot weather variations. The pond will also probably have a deep section (with features) to facilitate bass habitat. And yes, I expect a clay liner to minimize leakage. If I can get a small solar ground water pump, I hope I can supplement water during dry periods too.
The icing on the cake will be the plan to have a small covered "T" dock extending into the bass area , or near enough for casting range.
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Many states put restrictions on or have approval processes for the construction of ponds / lakes. CONSULT AN LAWYER!
Can't vouch for other states but.....
The Small Pond Exemption
The Texas legislature has encouraged the development of certain types of small ponds and lakes by exempting some landowners from the surface water permit process. It is often called the “stock tank” exemption. Section 11.142 of the Texas Water Code allows a person, without obtaining a permit from the TCEQ, to construct
“...on their own property a dam, pond or reservoir storing not more than 200 acre-feet of water for domestic and livestock and fish and wildlife purposes.”
An acre-foot is a volumetric unit; it is equal to the volume of water required to fill one acre with exactly one foot of water. On occasion, a pond can exceed the 200 acre-foot limitation if its 12-month average is at or below the 200 acre-foot level. The pond may be located on-channel, adjacent to the stream, or on a contiguous piece of property.
Basically if your pond is an average of 10' feet deep, it can reside on 20 ac of real estate, without TCEQ permitting.
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That's a fact... A couple acres is too big for a liner, so Bentonite is next. And that's the biggest thing to worry over, at least around here.. getting it to hold water. I dunno much about it down in Texas but I hear there's a hard pan not too far down in places that sets like iron.
The next biggest is aeration... either a natural inlet and outflow, or a mechanical means, with a pump and a creek-bed, or a fountain, I suppose, that you can operate when needed, or it will go stagnant.
Thanks for the reminder for aeration. I may add an array, and a small pump/diffuser to make sure the d.o. is maintained. As far as the clay liner, I have read that adding some pea gravel will help prevent turtle burrowing, and other destrucitve pests.. Hopefully having the good depth will help lessen the effect natural seasonal themocline turnover.
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Thanks for the reminder for aeration. I may add an array, and a small pump/diffuser to make sure the d.o. is maintained. As far as the clay liner, I have read that adding some pea gravel will help prevent turtle burrowing, and other destrucitve pests.. Hopefully having the good depth will help lessen the effect natural seasonal themocline turnover.
Ya'll are down in the flat land so I don't know how you do it down there, but here we keep it deep right up to the shore, gravel the shore with a 2" minus and then a load of rip-rap, which keeps the critters digging to a minimum. Only where it's transitory from natural bank to beach, but for the lion's share, burrowing is impossible. But then, rocks are kinda a thing here, and don't look out of place... And it ain't like they're hard to find.
But then it ain't the turtles here so much as muskrat and beaver... which can do a whole lot more damage.but nothing much messes with the bottom here, and the bentonite layer is always under a fair layer of dirt.
And I have always preferred the creek method for aeration... Though we always have an uphill to pump to... but bouncing the water down a water feature seems to be more effective, and the simulated current in the pond keeps a channel open where the weeds don't go.
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Just thinking out loud here, because it's fun to dream of what I would do with land.
Use the excavated material to build a small hill/plateau/mesa with a pond on top and a rock bed creek leading down to a waterfall into the main pond, with a solar power pump feeding water from far side of the main pond to the mesa pond. If you (re)design it right, you should have pretty much constant water flow even when the sun is not out, and in case of extra sun or extra rain, it just runs faster.
Cantilever the falls so you can swim under and behind them.
I'd put the bass dock in as an island, so it is only reachable by swim/row. That way you have to put in at least a little work for the best drinking. And a solar charger to light your favorite flag(s) out in the middle of the pond.
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Just thinking out loud here, because it's fun to dream of what I would do with land.
And a solar charger to light your favorite flag(s) out in the middle of the pond.
Solar dock lights. Yeah!!! This thing gets more expensive by the minute.
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So you have no worry about keeping a bottom in it... That much makes it much easier.
So you're fixin' to ditch out of the slough to feed the pond? Think about inlet and outlet. even if there is little flow, the interchange due to convection in the water can drive a lazy current between two water bodies... you may just keep both from stagnating as much.
The slough will go through the pond. Drainage ditch improved to limit the amount inflow; essentially adding a "spillway" for times when too much water flows to the slough. This already exists, but needs some restoration.
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Can't vouch for other states but.....
The Small Pond Exemption
The Texas legislature has encouraged the development of certain types of small ponds and lakes by exempting some landowners from the surface water permit process. It is often called the “stock tank” exemption. Section 11.142 of the Texas Water Code allows a person, without obtaining a permit from the TCEQ, to construct
“...on their own property a dam, pond or reservoir storing not more than 200 acre-feet of water for domestic and livestock and fish and wildlife purposes.”
An acre-foot is a volumetric unit; it is equal to the volume of water required to fill one acre with exactly one foot of water. On occasion, a pond can exceed the 200 acre-foot limitation if its 12-month average is at or below the 200 acre-foot level. The pond may be located on-channel, adjacent to the stream, or on a contiguous piece of property.
Basically if your pond is an average of 10' feet deep, it can reside on 20 ac of real estate, without TCEQ permitting.
Thank you for that. Mine will have livestock accessing it, at least at times sufficient to make this claim.
For reference:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/WA/htm/WA.11.htm
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Ya'll are down in the flat land so I don't know how you do it down there, but here we keep it deep right up to the shore, gravel the shore with a 2" minus and then a load of rip-rap, which keeps the critters digging to a minimum. Only where it's transitory from natural bank to beach, but for the lion's share, burrowing is impossible. But then, rocks are kinda a thing here, and don't look out of place... And it ain't like they're hard to find.
But then it ain't the turtles here so much as muskrat and beaver... which can do a whole lot more damage.but nothing much messes with the bottom here, and the bentonite layer is always under a fair layer of dirt.
And I have always preferred the creek method for aeration... Though we always have an uphill to pump to... but bouncing the water down a water feature seems to be more effective, and the simulated current in the pond keeps a channel open where the weeds don't go.
For once, I'm grateful for our black gumbo. We just need to dig a hole. If a turtle or another digs down, it is just more clay. If he digs past that, I'll like get an oil well.
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Texas Parks and Wildlife Links for future reference:
Land & Water FAQ
Private Fishing Ponds
http://tpwd.texas.gov/faq/landwater/fisheries/
Managing Private Lakes & Ponds
http://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/water/habitats/private_water/
http://www.texasaquaculture.org/
Managing Nuisance Aquatic Plants
http://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/water/environconcerns/nuisance_plants/manage/
Using Grass Carp for Vegetation Control
http://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/water/habitats/private_water/gcarp_intro.phtml
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Using Grass Carp for Vegetation Control
http://tpwd.texas.gov/landwater/water/habitats/private_water/gcarp_intro.phtml
I don't know if you saw my comments on another thread, but I can not believe the bureaucratic hassle to get a triploid grass carp. Seems after the lab certifies the genetics, they shouldn't give a sh__. It has been proven tri's don't reproduce. I will really need the vegetation control on the new pond, but leaning now that it might not be worth the hassle.
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I don't know if you saw my comments on another thread, but I can not believe the bureaucratic hassle to get a triploid grass carp. Seems after the lab certifies the genetics, they shouldn't give a sh__. It has been proven tri's don't reproduce. I will really need the vegetation control on the new pond, but leaning now that it might not be worth the hassle.
Hang a sickle bar under your duck boat...
It prolly won't work, but you might just convince the wife you're out there working...