The Briefing Room
General Category => Editorial/Opinion/Blogs => Topic started by: mystery-ak on February 26, 2019, 02:15:37 pm
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Socialism talk will sink Democrats: How left-wing overreach could backfire big-time in 2020
By Richard Cohen
Feb 25, 2019 | 8:00 PM
I don’t quite know what a handbasket is, but the Democratic Party is heading in one to electoral hell with its talk of socialism and reparations. Given a Republican incumbent who has never exceeded 50% in Gallup’s approval ratings poll and who won the presidency thanks to a dysfunctional Electoral College, the party is nevertheless determined to give Donald Trump a fair shot at re-election by sabotaging itself. In fact, it’s veering so far to the left it could lose an election in 1950s Bulgaria.
Democratic socialist ideas appear to be making significant headway in the party. The Democratic part is fine, the socialism part is not. It suggests a massive government intrusion in the economy that has not worked elsewhere — post-war Great Britain or that contemporary mess called Venezuela — and that, in a cultural sense, is un-American. Time and time again, the American people have shown they want nothing to do with socialism. While socialist movements have at times been politically strong in Europe, such has not been the case in America. This, in fact, is one of the original meanings of the phrase “American exceptionalism.â€
If Americans are not about to embrace socialism, they certainly are not about to support reparations. This proposal, which seems to have come out of nowhere, has the support of Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Julian Castro and Marianne Williamson. This supposed redress for slavery — nothing can redress slavery — polls abysmally. Sixty-eight percent of Americans oppose making payments to descendants of slaves, and 72% oppose paying reparations to African-Americans in general. Among whites, 81% oppose payments to descendants of slaves.
more
https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-socialism-talk-will-sink-democrats-20190225-story.html (https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-socialism-talk-will-sink-democrats-20190225-story.html)
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Surprising that Richard Cohen would write this.
Surprising that the New York Daily News (of late a mouthpiece for the democrat-communists) would print it.
Could they be worried about something...?
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Pushing "independents" (I hate that term, as if there's only two parties) to vote republican, providing "proof" that the road to "victory" is by appealing to the "moderate" voters.
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Pushing "independents" (I hate that term, as if there's only two parties) to vote republican, providing "proof" that the road to "victory" is by appealing to the "moderate" voters.
Most Conservatives and Libertarians are outside of the Republican party. To suggest that independent voters are moderates is a mistake.
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... who won the presidency thanks to a dysfunctional Electoral College
I'd say it worked perfectly as planned. Cohen is an idiot, always has been. I hope the Rats ignore him as well as I do.
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I’m not convinced that socialism will sink them. All I have to do is talk to my nieces attending college and it scares the crap out me. They’d go along with most if not all the dems are proposing.
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Dan Bongino
Verified account @dbongino
It’s breathtaking to watch the Democrats go all-in on infanticide, bankruptcy, 70-90% tax rates, reparations, open borders, government-controlled healthcare, cow assassination squads, sky-high gas prices, police-state spying, and gun confiscation. Simply unbelievable to watch.
3:39 PM - 26 Feb 2019
https://twitter.com/dbongino/status/1100540955675881472
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Wow...a lot of truth right there.
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Wow...a lot of truth right there.
I know. Wish we could fit this on a bumper sticker.
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I’m not convinced that socialism will sink them. All I have to do is talk to my nieces attending college and it scares the crap out me. They’d go along with most if not all the dems are proposing.
Socialism has always appealed more to females than males. A government that takes care of everybody is what a lot of them like. Your nieces are like my three sisters. They have absolutely no conception of why they live great lives in America thanks to our soon to be demolished free enterprise system.
Add the fact that females are more likely than males to believe stories/lies about "white privilege" and "oppressed minorities" and you have large segment of the population who are quite willing to trash the system that made America great for myth of a workable, socialist society.
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I’m not convinced that socialism will sink them. All I have to do is talk to my nieces attending college and it scares the crap out me. They’d go along with most if not all the dems are proposing.
Ever ask them who is going to pay the bill for our generations' socialism? Do they really want to pay for all of their "free" stuff, when they already have to pay for ours?
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Ever ask them who is going to pay the bill for our generations' socialism? Do they really want to pay for all of their "free" stuff, when they already have to pay for ours?
I think many young people that aren't avid followers of politics probably don't think deeper than "I can't afford good healthcare or housing and the only way I can go to college is by going into severe student loan debt while hoping I'm smart enough to make it." They vote for whoever promises to alleviate some or all of those problems.
They're not asking for totalitarian socialism where the government takes over the private sector. They're not asking for everybody to make the same amount of money. They're struggling and they don't want to struggle so much; that's what they know and what they want.
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I think many young people that aren't avid followers of politics probably don't think deeper than "I can't afford good healthcare or housing and the only way I can go to college is by going into severe student loan debt while hoping I'm smart enough to make it." They vote for whoever promises to alleviate some or all of those problems.
That is exactly the wrong way to think. Where is your sense of rugged individualism? Where is your ability to do for yourself? To make it in spite of your problems? Were I to think like you, I would not have spent 5 years climbing out of a wheelchair and learning how to walk again. I'd have never got out of that damnable thing at all.
Sometimes goes along gets along. Sometimes it takes every ounce of everything you've got... And sometimes all you've got left is damn mean, and often times that is enough. If you don;t even try, and expect your living to be handed to you, then you deserve to fail.
They're not asking for totalitarian socialism where the government takes over the private sector. They're not asking for everybody to make the same amount of money. They're struggling and they don't want to struggle so much; that's what they know and what they want.
YES!! you are asking EXACTLY for totalitarian socialism!
Liberty IS struggle.
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I think many young people that aren't avid followers of politics probably don't think deeper than "I can't afford good healthcare or housing and the only way I can go to college is by going into severe student loan debt while hoping I'm smart enough to make it." They vote for whoever promises to alleviate some or all of those problems.
They're not asking for totalitarian socialism where the government takes over the private sector. They're not asking for everybody to make the same amount of money. They're struggling and they don't want to struggle so much; that's what they know and what they want.
How the hell are young, educated, able-bodied people struggling so damn much in a booming economy that they're embracing socialism @Dexter ? I don't give a furry rat's rear that you all don't want the government to take over the private sector and every aspect of your lives .... this is what you're going to get. And you're going to drag the rest of us down with you, so now it's personal.
Where is it written that you and your generation should not have a single debt or a single responsibility? Did you know the definition of "loan" when you signed the papers and took the money?
Where is it written that yours is the generation that can opt out of sacrifice to achieve their goals? Where is it written that yours is the generation that shall never grow up and accept responsibility for your own damn lives?
If you think you're having a rough time of it now, God help you when you run out of other people's money.
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Socialism has always appealed more to females than males. A government that takes care of everybody is what a lot of them like. Your nieces are like my three sisters. They have absolutely no conception of why they live great lives in America thanks to our soon to be demolished free enterprise system.
Add the fact that females are more likely than males to believe stories/lies about "white privilege" and "oppressed minorities" and you have large segment of the population who are quite willing to trash the system that made America great for myth of a workable, socialist society.
I have a sister that in her college years thought the same way. But time and experience, plus getting a job with a paycheck, tempered a lot of that.
Conservatives believe that young people embracing liberalism is new. It was the same way when I was in college. Young people lack life experience and they tend to be naïve
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How the hell are young, educated, able-bodied people struggling so damn much in a booming economy that they're embracing socialism @Dexter ?
Tattoos are expensive.
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I think many young people that aren't avid followers of politics probably don't think deeper than "I can't afford good healthcare or housing and the only way I can go to college is by going into severe student loan debt while hoping I'm smart enough to make it." They vote for whoever promises to alleviate some or all of those problems.
They're not asking for totalitarian socialism where the government takes over the private sector. They're not asking for everybody to make the same amount of money. They're struggling and they don't want to struggle so much; that's what they know and what they want.
But totalitarianism is what they will get, and that’s so blatantly evident from history that they can be held accountable for that knowledge. Or perhaps voting intelligently is just too damned hard for 20-somethings and the voting age should be raised.
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How the hell are young, educated, able-bodied people struggling so damn much in a booming economy that they're embracing socialism @Dexter ? I don't give a furry rat's rear that you all don't want the government to take over the private sector and every aspect of your lives .... this is what you're going to get. And you're going to drag the rest of us down with you, so now it's personal.
Where is it written that you and your generation should not have a single debt or a single responsibility? Did you know the definition of "loan" when you signed the papers and took the money?
Where is it written that yours is the generation that can opt out of sacrifice to achieve their goals? Where is it written that yours is the generation that shall never grow up and accept responsibility for your own damn lives?
If you think you're having a rough time of it now, God help you when you run out of other people's money.
@Right_in_Virginia
:hands: :hands: :hands: :hands:
After being discharged from the Army, I went to college were I met my wife and we got married out of college, with big student loan debt, and not long after that babies arrived. The first few years were quite a struggle, especially when she was home and I worked extra hours when the kids were babies so she could stay home with them until they started school. But we survived, and I would say thrived.
Young people today have a massive sense of entitlement. But that’s what happens when everyone gets a participation trophy as kids. They become entitled adults where they believe every election should go their way and colleges should protect them from other beliefs and opinions
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The left obviously thinks they have imported enough clueless peasants looking for free handouts,and miseducated enough young adults that they can actually win by running hard-left.
I strongly suspect a large part of this is due to the ageing/aged "True Believers" from the 60's that bought into the Black Panthers and "Revolution NOW!" nonsense suddenly realizing their "best if used by" date has already expired,and NEED a win to feel like they haven't wasted their lives.
And I hope they are ALL crushed enough by their loss to be suicidal and act on it.
As was true in the 30's,it is still true now that "the only good Communist is a dead Communist."
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I’m not convinced that socialism will sink them. All I have to do is talk to my nieces attending college and it scares the crap out me. They’d go along with most if not all the dems are proposing.
@mrpotatohead
That is common amongst people who are "all education and no practical experience in life". It may take a while for reality to set it,how long depending on their occupations after college,but for most it will become clear to them when they start itemizing their tax bills each year and start to wonder why THEY can't save any money will paying the indigent to live a life of retirement with free medical care,food,housing,etc,etc,etc.
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That is exactly the wrong way to think. Where is your sense of rugged individualism? Where is your ability to do for yourself? To make it in spite of your problems? Were I to think like you, I would not have spent 5 years climbing out of a wheelchair and learning how to walk again. I'd have never got out of that damnable thing at all.
I did for myself, and believe it or not I'm a lot less left wing than most of my peers. I just see it all around me because of my generation, so I was trying to give you some insight into the young left mind. I lean left, but I'm not plagued by hopelessness and despair like a lot of other young people.
Sometimes goes along gets along. Sometimes it takes every ounce of everything you've got... And sometimes all you've got left is damn mean, and often times that is enough. If you don;t even try, and expect your living to be handed to you, then you deserve to fail.
YES!! you are asking EXACTLY for totalitarian socialism!
Liberty IS struggle.
If something big doesn't happen soon the fear of the word socialism will diminish to the point that politicians calling themselves such will be elected in great numbers. Young people aren't afraid of it at all.
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Dan Bongino
Verified account @dbongino
It’s breathtaking to watch the Democrats go all-in on infanticide, bankruptcy, 70-90% tax rates, reparations, open borders, government-controlled healthcare, cow assassination squads, sky-high gas prices, police-state spying, and gun confiscation. Simply unbelievable to watch.
@Right_in_Virginia
What gives me brain freeze and convinces me they are all legally insane is they all STILL think the brown and black hordes of illiterate and unskilled leftists they are importing into the country will be content to leave these white/Jewish "leaders" in office.
These people are dedicated communist dictators,and they aren't familiar with the term "Revolution",or somehow think it doesn't apply to THEIR rule BECAUSE they are white/Jewish elitists that know better than anyone else what they need?
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I think many young people that aren't avid followers of politics probably don't think deeper than "I can't afford good healthcare or housing and the only way I can go to college is by going into severe student loan debt while hoping I'm smart enough to make it." They vote for whoever promises to alleviate some or all of those problems.
They're not asking for totalitarian socialism where the government takes over the private sector. They're not asking for everybody to make the same amount of money. They're struggling and they don't want to struggle so much; that's what they know and what they want.
@Dexter
Those people would have benefited from being given an allowance as a child,and summer jobs of some sort in the summer,and then made to live withing their budget and save a little money to boot. After all,they are living and eating for free at home,so they don't really need a lot of money. What they DO need is the lesson in reality a budget will give them.
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How the hell are young, educated, able-bodied people struggling so damn much in a booming economy that they're embracing socialism @Dexter ?
Being a young person today maybe isn't as easy as older people think it is, despite how the stock market looks and the fact that most people have a smart phone. I very much disagree with the sentiment that my generation is just lazy. Wages don't go as far as they did 30-40 years ago. A lot of them really do have to struggle a lot to stay afloat. Y'all don't actually know what it's like to start out in the world today. You can only speculate and make assumptions based on your experiences.
Where is it written that you and your generation should not have a single debt or a single responsibility? Did you know the definition of "loan" when you signed the papers and took the money?
Where is it written that yours is the generation that can opt out of sacrifice to achieve their goals? Where is it written that yours is the generation that shall never grow up and accept responsibility for your own damn lives?
If you think you're having a rough time of it now, God help you when you run out of other people's money.
Maybe young people are struggling more than you give them credit for. None of that is written anywhere, but it won't stop people from voting for something different.
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If something big doesn't happen soon the fear of the word socialism will diminish to the point that politicians calling themselves such will be elected in great numbers. Young people aren't afraid of it at all.
In part you may be right, because your indoctrination is much deeper and multi-faceted that it was for the hippies who brought this crap here. But by and large, the youth are naive and facile, easily bent by that indoctrination.
But here's the deal: Shortly after exiting the ivory towers of college, the real world comes right up to them and mugs em with a 2x4 to the head. You learn mighty soon that the big bad world doesn't owe you a single damn thing, and you better fight like hell or there won't be any food on the table tonight for your kids. Your generation is not immune to that 2x4. It's coming. And many, many of your generation will change their minds the hard way.
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Being a young person today maybe isn't as easy as older people think it is, despite how the stock market looks and the fact that most people have a smart phone. I very much disagree with the sentiment that my generation is just lazy. Wages don't go as far as they did 30-40 years ago. A lot of them really do have to struggle a lot to stay afloat. Y'all don't actually know what it's like to start out in the world today. You can only speculate and make assumptions based on your experiences.
Maybe young people are struggling more than you give them credit for. None of that is written anywhere, but it won't stop people from voting for something different.
:03:
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In part you may be right, because your indoctrination is much deeper and multi-faceted that it was for the hippies who brought this crap here. But by and large, the youth are naive and facile, easily bent by that indoctrination.
But here's the deal: Shortly after exiting the ivory towers of college, the real world comes right up to them and mugs em with a 2x4 to the head. You learn mighty soon that the big bad world doesn't owe you a single damn thing, and you better fight like hell or there won't be any food on the table tonight for your kids. Your generation is not immune to that 2x4. It's coming. And many, many of your generation will change their minds the hard way.
Our young friend doesn’t realize that he hasn’t lived the life and traveled the journeys that many of us already have. I think they see a certain standard of living their parents have and think that’s what you get the minute you turn 18. So they convince themselves that they are struggling worse than any generation before them which is simply not true. So they make veiled threats like “give us what we want or we’ll vote for Marxism.†What they don’t realize is that many of the young people before them who voted for McGovern in 1972, once they left the university systems and got real jobs, ended up voting for Reagan in 1984
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Our young friend doesn’t realize that he hasn’t lived the life and traveled the journeys that many of us already have. I think they see a certain standard of living their parents have and think that’s what you get the minute you turn 18. So they convince themselves that they are struggling worse than any generation before them which is simply not true. So they make veiled threats like “give us what we want or we’ll vote for Marxism.†What they don’t realize is that many of the young people before them who voted for McGovern in 1972, once they left the university systems and got real jobs, ended up voting for Reagan in 1984
@LMAO
That's right... Even here, we have a species of vegetarian granola-head hillbilly... Not exactly ex-hippie... Still doing their thing, but very, very libertarian, and conservative in many many ways. Good folks.
I have seen all this bullcrap already in my life - except back in the day, it was global cooling, the Alar scare, and the war on tobacco. Been there, done that. Happily, as a Conservative, I was entirely immune. All a feller has to do is think for himself a little while, and you can see right through this kind of stuff.
Good post.
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@LMAO
That's right... Even here, we have a species of vegetarian granola-head hillbilly... Not exactly ex-hippie... Still doing their thing, but very, very libertarian, and conservative in many many ways. Good folks.
I have seen all this bullcrap already in my life - except back in the day, it was global cooling, the Alar scare, and the war on tobacco. Been there, done that. Happily, as a Conservative, I was entirely immune. All a feller has to do is think for himself a little while, and you can see right through this kind of stuff.
Good post.
Remember the dairy scare from the eighties? When eating an egg a week would probably clog your arteries so bad with chlorestorol you'd die after eating two or three at a time?
Now they're saying eating several eggs a day is good for you. Who to believe?
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Remember the dairy scare from the eighties? When eating an egg a week would probably clog your arteries so bad with chlorestorol you'd die after eating two or three at a time?
Now they're saying eating several eggs a day is good for you. Who to believe?
Oh yeah... And margarine because butter would kill you dead... Turns out the margarine is what'll kill you dead, and butter is just as good as it has always been.
Who to believe? I will believe the old duffers. They are the ones with wisdom. And they have all heard this crap before. IOW, I don't believe a damn word of anything the 'news' says at all. And what's the difference anyway? All this crap doesn't really mean a damn thing, because I can't change it anyway. I'll worry about right here where I am and let them dumb bastards figure it out for themselves. I will pay em no mind.
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@Cyber Liberty
Yeah,it must be tough to buy 600 dollar cell phones ,designer clothes,and designer coffee at Starbucks on unemployment or whatever minimum wage job you finally qualified to be hired for.
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Our young friend doesn’t realize that he hasn’t lived the life and traveled the journeys that many of us already have. I think they see a certain standard of living their parents have and think that’s what you get the minute you turn 18.
@LMAO
To be fair to them,doesn't every generation meet with a certain amount of culture shock when staring reality in the face for the first time?
So they convince themselves that they are struggling worse than any generation before them which is simply not true.
Yes,but they THINK that is true because they have been raised to think they are special little snowflakes that deserve more. I remember when a friends high school age son got his first car and when I offered to help show him how to maintain it and what to look for,he informed me that he would never have to worry about such things because he was a software genius and was going to be rich designing video games. He is closing in fast on 30 now,and is a salesman at a software store during the day,and struggling stand up comedian at night.
Gee,who cudda seen THAT coming? Not really his fault,though. Being arrogant is the nature of the generational cycle because everyone wants to encourage them to do better,not criticize them for not doing enough. Doctor Spock,and all that.
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they convince themselves that they are struggling worse than any generation before them
They are struggling more than recent generations, such as yours. There are a lot of stats to back up my claim too.
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They are struggling more than recent generations, such as yours. There are a lot of stats to back up my claim too.
@Dexter a
Oh,well,that's DIFFERENT! I didn't know you had statistics to back you up.
Uhhhh,who compiled the statistics? Ever heard the old saying that figures don't lie,but lairs figure?
AFATG,ever heard a political speech?
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They are struggling more than recent generations, such as yours. There are a lot of stats to back up my claim too.
How so, man? What kind of stats do you have? I would love to see some links to these stats. I like stats, like to analyze them.
I would love it if you had some reliable stats on starting wages and increase rates that show the experience for folks from 18 to 35. Nationwide, broad collection of data across numerous industries. I would also love to see reliable data on the percentages of that income required for housing, food, other necessities. How much of income is available for discretionary spending...
You got stats like that? Feed me!!
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They are struggling more than recent generations, such as yours. There are a lot of stats to back up my claim too.
Really? Where are the stats? I know there are millions of high-paying jobs available according to people who analyze things like The National Association of Manufacturers (NAM). They say about one half million skilled jobs in manufacturing are going unanswered and is projected to be two and one half million ten years from how. That's just one division of the economy.
No doubt, a number of young people are struggling....like young people have struggled since the Industrial Revolution.
But the young people I know are doing alright.
If you make a claim that today's young people are struggling more than previous generations, you have to back that up with facts.
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If you make a claim that today's young people are struggling more than previous generations, you have to back that up with facts.
Since millennials first started entering the workforce, their spending habits have been blamed for killing off industries ranging from casual restaurant dining to starter houses. However, a new study by the Federal Reserve suggests it might be less about how they are spending their money and more about not having any to spend.
A study published this month by Christopher Kurz, Geng Li and Daniel J. Vine found millennials are less financially well-off than members of earlier generations when they were the same ages, with "lower earnings, fewer assets and less wealth."
Millennials, which the study defined as those born between 1981 and 1997, with ages ranging from 21 to 37, "paid a price" for coming of age during the Great Recession. They had to face historically weak labor demand and unusually tight credit conditions.
Their consumption habits are similar to their parents' and grandparents' — millennials just have less money to spend.
https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennials-spending-more-they-re-poorer-than-their-parents-fed-says (https://www.npr.org/2018/11/30/672103209/why-arent-millennials-spending-more-they-re-poorer-than-their-parents-fed-says)
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Y'all can accept this stuff or not, whatever, but this is why socialism is becoming popular among young people. Young people feel like they've been screwed by the older generations and they're ready for revolutionary change.
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The excerpt from NPR is remarkably statistic free. All conclusions and no data.
@Dexter you have to do better than that. *****rollingeyes*****
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@Dexter a
Oh,well,that's DIFFERENT! I didn't know you had statistics to back you up.
Uhhhh,who compiled the statistics? Ever heard the old saying that figures don't lie,but lairs figure?
AFATG,ever heard a political speech?
Also keep in mind, what’s different from this younger generation versus previous generation is this younger generation of wallows in victimhood
When I got out of high school, minimum wage was around three dollars and there were no jobs available for someone just out of high school . Many of the males in my high school class joined the military as a result . In fact, there were articles at the time of how young men and women of that era can expect a lower standard of living compared to their parents
So, been there done that and heard it all before.
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The excerpt from NPR is remarkably statistic free. All conclusions and no data.
Did you look at the actual study that was done by the Federal Reserve? I'm pretty sure it's sourced in the article somewhere. If not it'd be easy to find. The study was not done without statistics.
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Did you look at the actual study that was done by the Federal Reserve? I'm pretty sure it's sourced in the article somewhere. If not it'd be easy to find. The study was not done without statistics.
Sorry, I'm too busy to drill down into links you post. If there's data in there, it's your job to post the data here. Support your GD arguments yourself, don't ask Briefers to buttress your arguments. We're busy proving our own.
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I had an economics professor in college that said young people are for a larger welfare state until they get out in the world of working for a living and realize who really ends up paying for it.
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Sorry, I'm too busy to drill down into links you post. If there's data in there, it's your job to post the data here. Support your GD arguments yourself, don't ask Briefers to buttress your arguments. We're busy proving our own.
The conclusions I linked you came from a large study done by the Federal Reserve. They don't do large, legitimate studies without solid statistics. I think the Federal Reserve is fairly reliable when it comes to this matter.
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Y'all can accept this stuff or not, whatever, but this is why socialism is becoming popular among young people. Young people feel like they've been screwed by the older generations and they're ready for revolutionary change.
Gee, but it is funny how that sounds like it came right out of a liberal professer's mouth.
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The conclusions I linked you came from a large study done by the Federal Reserve. They don't do large, legitimate studies without solid statistics. I think the Federal Reserve is fairly reliable when it comes to this matter.
Oh, I see. In lieu of data, you trust the Federal Reserve, and expect us to trust them because you do.
Your argumentation technique needs a lot of tune-up if you expect to debate with Briefers.
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I had an economics professor in college that said young people are for a larger welfare state until they get out in the world of working for a living and realize who really ends up paying for it.
Thus it has always been. Then we have the dum-dums who refuse to learn the lesson of being mugged.
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Oh, I see. In lieu of data, you trust the Federal Reserve, and expect us to trust them because you do.
Your argumentation technique needs a lot of tune-up if you expect to debate with Briefers.
(https://images.gr-assets.com/books/1320409107l/6569694.jpg)
NOT!
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Maybe young people are struggling more than you give them credit for. None of that is written anywhere, but it won't stop people from voting for something different.
I do not believe you deserve "credit" for your "struggles" @Dexter People in their twenties and thirties have struggled for generations .... and if they plowed ahead, they succeeded. They had goals, they embraced responsibility, they knew they were the masters of their own destinies. Those before you did not stop and engage in generational tantrums demanding rescue. They kept going; and those that did made it all the way to a better, more prosperous life.
There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING, so unique about you and your generation that justifies your plotting to rob everyone else, make the government your mommy and destroy the US economy and the liberty it helps to secure.
I'll tell you this, Dex, if you do get the "different" you want to vote for --- you will look back upon your current "struggles" with fond nostalgia for the rest of your days.
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I do not believe you deserve "credit" for your "struggles" @Dexter People in their twenties and thirties have struggled for generations .... and if they plowed ahead, they succeeded. They had goals, they embraced responsibility, they knew they were the masters of their own destinies. Those before you did not stop and engage in generational tantrums demanding rescue. They kept going; and those that did made it all the way to a better, more prosperous life.
There is nothing, I repeat NOTHING, so unique about you and your generation that justifies your plotting to rob everyone else, make the government your mommy and destroy the US economy and the liberty it helps to secure.
I'll tell you this, Dex, if you do get the "different" you want to vote for --- you will look back upon your current "struggles" with fond nostalgia for the rest of your days.
:thumbsup:
Meanwhile, he wants to drag us all to his Hell with him. 9999hair out0000
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I think our young friend is misinterpreting what we are saying here. Nobody is saying that it’s not tough for young people starting out in life. Nor are we saying that young people today have it easy although they do have it easier than a lot of other previous generations. Imagine coming of age during the peak of the Great Depression. Our point is unless you are born into a very rich family and grow up with privilege, starting out in life in adulthood is a struggle. My first job as an RN did not pay health insurance so I had to buy health insurance out-of-pocket. It was also a lower paid job. After 25 years of being an RN, I’m making a good living with a job with benefits. But it took several years to get there. And the struggles my family had starting out makes me appreciate a lot more what I have today. The struggles I had as a young adult didn’t make me special or entitled. It made me appreciative
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I think our young friend is misinterpreting what we are saying here. Nobody is saying that it’s not tough for young people starting out in life. Nor are we saying that young people today have it easy although they do have it easier than a lot of other previous generations. Imagine coming of age during the peak of the Great Depression. Our point is unless you are born into a very rich family and grow up with privilege, starting out in life in adulthood is a struggle. My first job as an RN did not pay health insurance so I had to buy health insurance out-of-pocket. It was also a lower paid job. After 25 years of being an RN, I’m making a good living with a job with benefits. But it took several years to get there. And the struggles my family had starting out makes me appreciate a lot more what I have today. The struggles I had as a young adult didn’t make me special or entitled. It made me appreciative
Humanity is rapidly approaching the point where humans will be obsolete for work. People that say things like "Somebody needs to fix the robots." simply do not understand the issue. The job problem is only going to get worse and worse. Sooner or later the government will have no choice but to take care of people, and I think that time is approaching faster than people realize. There more and more so won't be enough good paying work to go around, and the government realizes to maintain order there will have to be handouts to people that aren't productive enough to get what few jobs will remain. This stuff won't be stopped by conservatives. You might as well try to stop the Sun from rising. There isn't another solution to the problem that's coming. That's why ultimately the conservatives will be defeated.
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Humanity is rapidly approaching the point where humans will be obsolete for work. People that say things like "Somebody needs to fix the robots." simply do not understand the issue. The job problem is only going to get worse and worse. Sooner or later the government will have no choice but to take care of people, and I think that time is approaching faster than people realize. There more and more so won't be enough good paying work to go around, and the government realizes to maintain order there will have to be handouts to people that aren't productive enough to get what few jobs will remain. This stuff won't be stopped by conservatives. You might as well try to stop the Sun from rising. There isn't another solution to the problem that's coming. That's why ultimately the conservatives will be defeated.
The government NEVER takes care of the people. What you say is an impossibility.
What gives the government money is the people.
Therefore, when the people have no money, how then does government survive to give you someone else's money?
Your thinking is bass effing ackwards.
You cannot succeed if someone takes care of you - You will only subsist, and that barely. That is ultimately what the government will give you. Good God, why would you wish for that? I could subsist better on my own, eating the king's deer.
You speak a modern myth, that of benevolent government, with the misbegpotten notion that they can care for you without taxation. When you finally get your way, I hope you like rice and beans.
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The government NEVER takes care of the people. What you say is an impossibility.
What gives the government money is the people.
Therefore, when the people have no money, how then does government survive to give you someone else's money?
Your thinking is bass effing ackwards.
You cannot succeed if someone takes care of you - You will only subsist, and that barely. That is ultimately what the government will give you. Good God, why would you wish for that? I could subsist better on my own, eating the king's deer.
You speak a modern myth, that of benevolent government, with the misbegpotten notion that they can care for you without taxation. When you finally get your way, I hope you like rice and beans.
Why? Those that expect to be coddled by Uncle Sugar won't have any rice and beans.
Benevolent government. (I had to cut and paste that, because I couldn't get my fingers to actually type those words).
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why would you wish for that?
I don't, but there isn't another way in the end. The more automation replaces human labor the more it will be not just possible but necessary for people to be able to survive in society without working. Humanity will eventually be taken care of by machines it built. I think we're experiencing a transition.
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Why? Those that expect to be coddled by Uncle Sugar won't have any rice and beans.
Benevolent government. (I had to cut and paste that, because I couldn't get my fingers to actually type those words).
Because sooner or later, you run out of other people's money.
Thank you and hat tip, Maggie Thatcher.
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Humanity is rapidly approaching the point where humans will be obsolete for work. People that say things like "Somebody needs to fix the robots." simply do not understand the issue. The job problem is only going to get worse and worse. Sooner or later the government will have no choice but to take care of people, and I think that time is approaching faster than people realize. There more and more so won't be enough good paying work to go around, and the government realizes to maintain order there will have to be handouts to people that aren't productive enough to get what few jobs will remain. This stuff won't be stopped by conservatives. You might as well try to stop the Sun from rising. There isn't another solution to the problem that's coming. That's why ultimately the conservatives will be defeated.
An interesting, although highly emotional and illogical monologue. Your last sentence there sounds a lot like "We will bury you," no? You most certainly sound like you consider the Members of this board to be somehow inferior to the enlightened you (who actually trusts conclusions from the Fed, then tries to cram those conclusions down your betters collective throat). You are "we" and we are conservatives. If you don't want to be a part of TBR, you're in for a rough ride Sonny.
You need some rest.
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I don't, but there isn't another way in the end. The more automation replaces human labor the more it will be not just possible but necessary for people to be able to survive in society without working. Humanity will eventually be taken care of by machine it built. I think we're experiencing a transition.
Bloody nonsense, in the first place. Until we have reached utopia (which will never ever happen), there will be voluntary transactions reflecting work. Because that is what economy IS. I don't think you understand a bit of what you are saying.
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I don't, but there isn't another way in the end. The more automation replaces human labor the more it will be not just possible but necessary for people to be able to survive in society without working. Humanity will eventually be taken care of by machines it built. I think we're experiencing a transition.
(https://i.imgflip.com/m79sb.jpg)
I "repaired the robots" (and programmed them too) for 35 years. Made a good enough living to retire at 60. I find your comments insulting to my profession.
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You most certainly sound like you consider the Members of this board to be somehow inferior
your betters
Once again you accuse me of thinking I'm better than you. I don't think that way, but apparently you do. All I did is explain what I think will happen in years to come.
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Bloody nonsense, in the first place. Until we have reached utopia (which will never ever happen), there will be voluntary transactions reflecting work. Because that is what economy IS. I don't think you understand a bit of what you are saying.
Not even a little. Every time I see that pirate avatar I know I'm in for some world-class laffers.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/m79sb.jpg)
I can't wait for the next time you ironically accuse me of trolling.
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Our friend misappropriates government efficiency.
When people can no longer feed the beast they have made, then people will have no value to government. Goverment follows the money.
That's when they start hooking up the boxcars. That is government efficiency.
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Once again you accuse me of thinking I'm better than you. I don't think that way, but apparently you do. All I did is explain what I think will happen in years to come.
And all I did is explain why you are full of it. In fact, dozens have, to the same effect. You may think you are pulling something over on us bright guy, but I know a Superiority Complex when I see one.
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Our friend misappropriates government efficiency.
When people can no longer feed the beast they have made, then people will have no value to government. Goverment follows the money.
That's when they start hooking up the boxcars. That is government efficiency.
He thinks government can be benign. I'm full stop with it right there. You and I (and almost the rest of the forum) know better.
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I can't wait for the next time you ironically accuse me of trolling.
Feel free to jump on me, if it ever happens. What you said about the benevolent government and robots taking care of us was the dumbest thing I read all day. And you had to top yourself, after the data-free demand we trust the Federal Reserve Board to earn that.
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He thinks government can be benign. I'm full stop with it right there. You and I (and almost the rest of the forum) know better.
It is just so friggin silly.
If the robots take over work.
And no one has any money.
who will buy the robots, or the things the robots work is producing?
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It is just so friggin silly.
If the robots take over work.
And no one has any money.
who will buy the robots, or the things the robots work is producing?
I also believe humans in the distant future will find a way to transcend currency, the root of all evil.
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I also believe humans in the distant future will find a way to transcend currency, the root of all evil.
Never going to happen. You have been watching way too much Star Trek.
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It is just so friggin silly.
If the robots take over work.
And no one has any money.
who will buy the robots, or the things the robots work is producing?
And it's not if the robots take over work, it's when they do. What other options are there? Production needs will be met by intelligent technology. What happens after that seems obvious and inevitable.
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Bloody nonsense, in the first place. Until we have reached utopia (which will never ever happen), there will be voluntary transactions reflecting work. Because that is what economy IS. I don't think you understand a bit of what you are saying.
I think one day automation will progress to the point where basic needs (not wants, though that will come too for many) can be supplied by machines that are serviced by machines that are serviced by other machines. Some people will always want more than just the basics, and they will work, innovate, etc, to get there. Some won't. As much as I hate to say it, I think a universal basic income is inevitable (did I mention I hate to say it?).
What I don't see is some sort of destruction of human society because "no one" can "find" a job. Sure, I might have to spend all day fishing and posting online videos to make a few extra bucks, but I can live with that if I really have to.
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Never going to happen.
I think you underestimate humanity.
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(https://i.imgflip.com/m79sb.jpg)
I "repaired the robots" (and programmed them too) for 35 years. Made a good enough living to retire at 60. I find your comments insulting to my profession.
I believe Dex's point here is that not everybody will be able to "repair the robots". If they did, you wouldn't make a living where you would retire at 60.
Supply and demand.
BTW....don't forget that can of Lysol and a paper towel before you touch that fecal-filled touch-screen to place your order. :laugh:
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As much as I hate to say it, I think a universal basic income is inevitable (did I mention I hate to say it?).
Thank you. It's not about loving it or hating it. It's the obvious outcome if you give it enough thought.
What I don't see is some sort of destruction of human society because "no one" can "find" a job. Sure, I might have to spend all day fishing and posting online videos to make a few extra bucks, but I can live with that if I really have to.
We'll figure it out. We always do. Humanity is pretty amazing.
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I also believe humans in the distant future will find a way to transcend currency, the root of all evil.
Currency is not the root of all evil. The lust for currency is the root of a lot of it, usually powered by envy.
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Currency is not the root of all evil. The lust for currency is the root of a lot of it, usually powered by envy.
Either way I think humanity will eventually outgrow currency.
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I believe Dex's point here is that not everybody will be able to "repair the robots". If they did, you wouldn't make a living where you would retire at 60.
Supply and demand.
BTW....don't forget that can of Lysol and a paper towel before you touch that fecal-filled touch-screen to place your order. :laugh:
No, not everybody can fix the robots. There are people who think a college education is the be-all end-all, while snubbing people who get their fingernails dirty fixing robots. The Liberal Arts wise guys are the ones who will end up raiding the back of garbage trucks to eat.
And, yeah about the touch screens. :silly:
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Either way I think humanity will eventually outgrow currency.
Maybe. If we do, it will be the breaking of a thousands-year-old order. You can count on resistance.
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You can count on resistance.
That's usually the case for anything worth doing. :beer:
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That's usually the case for anything worth doing. :beer:
Your comments on this thread make a pretty good case for resisting your utopia that you would have to enforce universal submission to accomplish. Not everybody thinks socialism is a wonderful thing that just hasn't been tried by the right people (you).
You may go to Hell for it, but the rest of us will be damned if we let you and your friends try to drag us to Hell with you. Count on it.
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you and your friends
There aren't a lot of people that would consider me a political ally. Conservatives call me a socialist and liberals call me a fascist. :shrug:
I'd like to think that deep down you and others here have seen enough of me to know my views are more complex than that, but maybe not.
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I can't wait until we finally get past currency and move on to a proper barter based economy.
I get so tired of using a credit card when I buy gas just because that ahole won't accept ten chickens.
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There aren't a lot of people that would consider me a political ally. Conservatives call me a socialist and liberals call me a fascist. :shrug:
I'd like to think that deep down you and others here have seen enough of me to know my views are more complex than that, but maybe not.
It's hard to tell when you never move past talking points you repeat over and over. We've seen enough to form opinions, I can assure you.
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And it's not if the robots take over work, it's when they do. What other options are there? Production needs will be met by intelligent technology. What happens after that seems obvious and inevitable.
Again, bass-ackwards. Intelligent technology producing WHAT? If no one has jobs no one can afford to buy that which is being produced. So the market dies and robots are idled. At that point, the people are what is expendable. But ten there is even less production, and even less money, and the whole thing just goes to shit.
The inevitable end is an upperclass that doesn't need to work because they have the money for the robots and they serve only themselves, and a serf class that is basically ignored by the upper class and the government (because government follows the money), and in the mean time the serf class has to get along without money and without land and without industry... THAT is your inevitable end...
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Intelligent technology producing WHAT?
Whatever people need.
If no one has jobs no one can afford to buy that which is being produced. So the market dies and robots are idled. At that point, the people are what is expendable. But ten there is even less production, and even less money, and the whole thing just goes to shit.
Before currency could be phased out there'd have to be a period where people are given allowances that keep the economy alive. Universal basic income will happen. Again, I see this as inevitable. There's no way to stop technology from ravaging the job market.
The inevitable end is an upperclass that doesn't need to work because they have the money for the robots and they serve only themselves, and a serf class that is basically ignored by the upper class and the government (because government follows the money), and in the mean time the serf class has to get along without money and without land and without industry... THAT is your inevitable end...
My generation and the ones that follow it won't let it go down like that.
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I think one day automation will progress to the point where basic needs (not wants, though that will come too for many) can be supplied by machines that are serviced by machines that are serviced by other machines. Some people will always want more than just the basics, and they will work, innovate, etc, to get there. Some won't. As much as I hate to say it, I think a universal basic income is inevitable (did I mention I hate to say it?).
What I don't see is some sort of destruction of human society because "no one" can "find" a job. Sure, I might have to spend all day fishing and posting online videos to make a few extra bucks, but I can live with that if I really have to.
I don't think so. Right now, basic needs are almost free. If you plant your own garden and raise a few chickens and rabbits, Hunt and fish a bit and buy long on rice and beans, you can have your belly full for very little per day. If I were well enough to walk off, I could literally live for free, just on forage, trapping and hunting. Nobody does that. Even our poor 'require' more than that.
The truth of it is, as long as someone has something someone else wants, that feller is going to figure out how to get that thing, and a voluntary transaction will take place. Barter or currency, or gold itself, that is capitalism, and it will never go away. And you will always have to grind off your nose. With all the gains in technology, that has never changed because it is the nature of life. Doesn't matter if you don;t have a dime, the work is still there. Just different.
The utopian life of ease that folks think will come of technology will never, ever occur.
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Whatever people need.
LOL! With what means of exchange? With what determining value? Do you think it will just be given to you?
ROTFLMAO!!!
Never ever going to happen.
Before currency could be phased out there'd have to be a period where people are given allowances that keep the economy alive. Universal basic income will happen. Again, I see this as inevitable. There's no way to stop technology from ravaging the job market.
You assume the job market to be a static pie. That is never true.
My generation and the ones that follow it won't let it go down like that.
The way you are talking, yes, that is exactly what you will do.
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I think you underestimate humanity.
I think you overestimate technology.
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Your comments on this thread make a pretty good case for resisting your utopia that you would have to enforce universal submission to accomplish. Not everybody thinks socialism is a wonderful thing that just hasn't been tried by the right people (you).
You may go to Hell for it, but the rest of us will be damned if we let you and your friends try to drag us to Hell with you. Count on it.
Damn straight. Smells like socialism to me. And it has not worked in a hundred iterations. It always promises utopia, it always delivers death. Folks don't know how precious liberty is.
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There aren't a lot of people that would consider me a political ally. Conservatives call me a socialist and liberals call me a fascist. :shrug:
I'd like to think that deep down you and others here have seen enough of me to know my views are more complex than that, but maybe not.
Complex perhaps, but entirely lacking in wisdom. No offense meant.
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I can't wait until we finally get past currency and move on to a proper barter based economy.
I get so tired of using a credit card when I buy gas just because that ahole won't accept ten chickens.
How will you mash em in that tiny little slot, anyway?
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Maybe. If we do, it will be the breaking of a thousands-year-old order. You can count on resistance.
@Cyber Liberty
DUHHHHH! Money/wealth is something real you can hold in your hands to protect,or to give to someone else. Digital numbers on a screen represent nothing but digital numbers. The INSTANT the government or a talented hacker takes a dislike to you,ALL your wealth can disappear in the blink of an eye with digital "wealth",and it will be like it never existed to start with,and you can't prove it ever did exist.
And do not even TRY to say this won't happen. It CAN happen,and anything that CAN happen WILL happen as long as there is someone around who can profit from it.
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That's usually the case for anything worth doing. :beer:
@Dexter
You need to study a little history and learn to be vewwy,vewwy careful about what you ask for,lest you get it.
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There aren't a lot of people that would consider me a political ally. Conservatives call me a socialist and liberals call me a fascist. :shrug:
@Dexter
And?????
Are you so confused you don't understand they are often/always the same people?
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I can't wait until we finally get past currency and move on to a proper barter based economy.
I get so tired of using a credit card when I buy gas just because that ahole won't accept ten chickens.
@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer
Credit cards are credit. They don't represent assets. YOU are in control of the assets you use to pay off the credit cards.
Granted,there is a huge gray area involved in banking because you are trusting your fluid assets to some butthole sitting behind a desk,but if you know where he lives that gives you some room to negotiate the return of your cash.
With real physical assets,you can't take them with you when you go somewhere,so it is up to you to pay attention to who you elect to represent you in government,because government is the ultimate bully that decides who owns what.
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Whatever people need.
How are the people going to pay for it? Will you be pimping out your wife and daughters?
Before currency could be phased out there'd have to be a period where people are given allowances that keep the economy alive. Universal basic income will happen. Again, I see this as inevitable. There's no way to stop technology from ravaging the job market.
Does this textbook start out with "Once upon a time....."?
My generation and the ones that follow it won't let it go down like that.
Yeah,causen yew bees special little sun flowers,right? No matter how many times you sing "When you wish upon a star",it's still nothing but a goofy song.
Just out of curiosity,what do you think "the natives" will do with all the free time they suddenly have to wonder where their next meal will be coming from?
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Complex perhaps, but entirely lacking in wisdom. No offense meant.
@Dexter @roamer_1
I think a better way to word that would be to say "....entirely lacking in experience."
The Utopian Left ALWAYS overlook the natural NEED to produce some sort of work that is innate to most of humanity. It is mans NATURE to create and evolve through our work and our thoughts. Remove this and you remove our humanity and end up with nothing but useless trust fund children good for nothing but target practice as the oxygen thieves they are.
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Your comments on this thread make a pretty good case for resisting your utopia that you would have to enforce universal submission to accomplish. Not everybody thinks socialism is a wonderful thing that just hasn't been tried by the right people (you).
You may go to Hell for it, but the rest of us will be damned if we let you and your friends try to drag us to Hell with you. Count on it.
Anyone can be for anything. You can even vote for candidates that support your vision of what the country should be. The problem is forcing that vision onto others
I see basic Universal income mentioned. Finland tried it and abandoned it. To give people basic universal income, the money has to be there and come from somewhere. The money would be printed and distributed so you would get a check that’s worthless due to inflation
All this will be debated and fought. Our young friend and his cohorts are under the impression that all they want they should get with no resistance simply because they want them
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Anyone can be for anything. You can even vote for candidates that support your vision of what the country should be. The problem is forcing that vision onto others
I see basic Universal income mentioned. Finland tried it and abandoned it. To give people basic universal income, the money has to be there and come from somewhere. The money would be printed and distributed so you would get a check that’s worthless due to inflation
The churches used to care for their less fortunate flock. Too bad nobody attends anymore.
Ironically, the last best hope to sustain that lies with the Catholic Hispanic immigrant. Legal or otherwise.
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The churches used to care for their less fortunate flock. Too bad nobody attends anymore.
Ironically, the last best hope to sustain that lies with the Catholic Hispanic immigrant. Legal or otherwise.
Gee Whiz, who'd a thunk?
Cut taxes and private charity goes up.
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Do you think it will just be given to you?
I think that's how it will eventually be, yes. Will I live to see that day? No, I doubt it.
The way you are talking, yes, that is exactly what you will do.
I don't see how these outcomes are avoidable.
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I think you overestimate technology.
Just look at technology compared to when you were a kid. The rate of growth is increasing. I really don't think I'm overestimating the impact technology will have on society.
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@Dexter
You need to study a little history and learn to be vewwy,vewwy careful about what you ask for,lest you get it.
Republicans have lost the youth vote badly, which means the future is probably bleak for their ideology. The United States will attempt to emulate our progressive allies in Europe sooner or later, of that I have no doubt. There's something I admire about Republicans for being immovable objects in a rapidly changing world, but in the end it leads to irrelevancy.
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Damn straight. Smells like socialism to me. And it has not worked in a hundred iterations. It always promises utopia, it always delivers death. Folks don't know how precious liberty is.
You don't think liberty exists in a place like Norway?
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@Cyber Liberty
DUHHHHH! Money/wealth is something real you can hold in your hands to protect,or to give to someone else. Digital numbers on a screen represent nothing but digital numbers. The INSTANT the government or a talented hacker takes a dislike to you,ALL your wealth can disappear in the blink of an eye with digital "wealth",and it will be like it never existed to start with,and you can't prove it ever did exist.
And do not even TRY to say this won't happen. It CAN happen,and anything that CAN happen WILL happen as long as there is someone around who can profit from it.
Most of our money transactions are already digital, and hackers can and do abuse that. Banks are usually pretty good about reimbursing stolen funds. I think along with a million other things AI will eventually render the human hacker obsolete.
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Just out of curiosity,what do you think "the natives" will do with all the free time they suddenly have to wonder where their next meal will be coming from?
I don't predict food shortages being an issue in a world where human labor isn't needed anymore.
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@Dexter @roamer_1
I think a better way to word that would be to say "....entirely lacking in experience."
The Utopian Left ALWAYS overlook the natural NEED to produce some sort of work that is innate to most of humanity.
I don't think the end of working for money will be possible for quite a while. That's the difference between me and other leftists. They want it all right now. I recognize that it's a long game and that we don't have our win condition yet.
It is mans NATURE to create and evolve through our work and our thoughts.
Men can create and evolve in a world where there's no such thing as a 9 to 5. I think people will be a lot more focused on hobbies and academia.
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Republicans have lost the youth vote badly, which means the future is probably bleak for their ideology. The United States will attempt to emulate our progressive allies in Europe sooner or later, of that I have no doubt. There's something I admire about Republicans for being immovable objects in a rapidly changing world, but in the end it leads to irrelevancy.
Republicans never had the youth vote. Again, many of us have lived a life you and your peers have yet to live
I’ve said conservatives may lose battles but we ultimately win the war. Why? The realities of math, economics, and ingrained human nature ultimately wins out over progressivism. The realities that currently exist is we have entitlement programs we can no longer afford, a 22 trillion dollar debt that is making investors anxious, states with massive unfunded public employee benefits that they cannot raise taxes enough to fund those, and changing technologies and shifting demographics
These are realities. They don’t go away because you want them to.
You’re young and full of youthful idealism. I get that. But you’re not the first generation who thinks that you’re going to mold the world in your image
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Republicans never had the youth vote. Again, many of us have lived a life you and your peers have yet to live
I’ve said conservatives may lose battles but we ultimately win the war. Why? The realities of math, economics, and ingrained human nature ultimately wins out over progressivism. The realities that currently exist is we have entitlement programs we can no longer afford, a 22 trillion dollar debt that is making investors anxious, states with massive unfunded public employee benefits that they cannot raise taxes enough to fund those, and changing technologies and shifting demographics
These are realities. They don’t go away because you want them to.
I think both ideologies can work in the world today within reason, but I think conservatism is running out of time in large part because of the opportunities being created by technology. I see the left and right as arguing over what is or isn't moral. Upward momentum beyond a certain point would be crippled if we emulated the Scandinavian countries. Some people are alright with that, others aren't. I completely disagree with the notion that the greatest country on Earth is incapable of emulating our European allies. We absolutely could if we wanted to.
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You don't think liberty exists in a place like Norway?
Why do you and your ilk think Norway et al are socialist?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/amp/)
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Why do you and your ilk think Norway et al are socialist?
If Norway isn't socialist then neither are Bernie Sanders and 99% of the people that would vote for him. Stop arguing in bad faith. There isn't a single thing that Bernie and his people want that the Scandinavian countries aren't already doing.
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I think both ideologies can work in the world today within reason, but I think conservatism is running out of time in large part because of the opportunities being created by technology. I see the left and right as arguing over what is or isn't moral. Upward momentum beyond a certain point would be crippled if we emulated the Scandinavian countries. Some people are alright with that, others aren't. I completely disagree with the notion that the greatest country on Earth is incapable of emulating our European allies. We absolutely could if we wanted to.
m
So you want to take the “greatest country on earthâ€(agree by the way) and your grand idea is to emulate those that aren’t? Did your mother drop you on your head when you were little?
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m
So you want to take the “greatest country on earthâ€(agree by the way) and your grand idea is to emulate those that aren’t? Did your mother drop you on your head when you were little?
I think they had a good idea over there in Europe. I think we can take it and do it better because we're bleep awesome.
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The US economy is the largest in the world. We have states whose economy is larger than many European countries. We lead the world in medical innovation. This is all in spite of our unsustainable debt.
The larger a population is, the more unsustainable a welfare state becomes. Bringing up Scandinavia is extremely faulty as compared to the US. This has been brought up many times to our young friend who chooses to completely ignore it. And yet we’re the immovable ones.
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I think they had a good idea over there in Europe. I think we can take it and do it better because we're bleep awesome.
Which particular idea are you so fond of?
(May not be able to respond for a while. I’m at work, something you socialists know nothing about!)
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Which particular idea are you so fond of?
Universal healthcare and a public college option for young people. I think those things would strengthen our nation a lot if we can somehow keep the left from letting the entire third world in at the same time.
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All this will be debated and fought. Our young friend and his cohorts are under the impression that all they want they should get with no resistance simply because they want them
And swiftly defeated, one would hope - As defeating socialism once it is in bloom is a cost in blood that is always staggering. Nobody ever seems to get it that, with the slackard and the industrious getting the same money, there is no reason to try hard - The balance reverting everyone to a slackard in short order...
And even more disastrous, the absence of risk also promotes the absence of reward - For you will not get one without the other... Which means of course, that your captains of industry never arise... ingenuity, originality, and invention all flee....
But then, I guess, all that will be no longer necessary in our brilliant friend's new world... Because robots.
:silly: :silly: :silly:
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But then, I guess, all that will be no longer necessary in our brilliant friend's new world... Because robots.
I think we're approaching a wall and that we simply don't have an option but to turn in another direction. I'm not even saying it'll be some wonderland, just that human labor will become obsolete and that that truth will have profound impacts on human society.
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@roamer_1
You can always vote yourself into Socialism.
But you'll have to shoot your way out of it.
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I think that's how it will eventually be, yes. Will I live to see that day? No, I doubt it.
I don't see how these outcomes are avoidable.
Like I said - Too much Star Trek.
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Just look at technology compared to when you were a kid. The rate of growth is increasing. I really don't think I'm overestimating the impact technology will have on society.
Actually no, it is leveling off... Moore's law no longer applies and has not applied for a decade. In fact, since the advent of handhelds, which are always under-powered by comparison, tech has moved more into miniaturization than into bigger, badder, faster, better...
But you are welcome to lay upon your couch that you will no longer be able to afford, and have your robot which you can no longer afford, feed you grapes that you can no longer get...
The simple principles of Conservative economics will necessarily deny you. Because that is what principles do.
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You don't think liberty exists in a place like Norway?
No, I think it won't exist there long. Why is it that you always point to young socialist economies instead of the old ones? Oh yeah - There are no old ones. Venezuela lies before you. For the hundreth time.
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I think both ideologies can work in the world today within reason, but I think conservatism is running out of time in large part because of the opportunities being created by technology.
Conservatism may be out of favor for the moment, but it must necessarily return or this country will fail, just as every other country fails when it seeks to avoid the principle things of Conservatism.
Principle things are always true, no matter where you are.
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If Norway isn't socialist then neither are Bernie Sanders and 99% of the people that would vote for him. Stop arguing in bad faith. There isn't a single thing that Bernie and his people want that the Scandinavian countries aren't already doing.
The thing you fail to see is that 3rd way socialism is just a whistle-stop on the road to true socialism, which is a whistle-stop on the road to communism, which is deprivation and tyranny. It is inevitable.
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I think they had a good idea over there in Europe. I think we can take it and do it better because we're bleep awesome.
Ah yes... progressives always pining for Europe, Does nothing ever change?
Meanwhile, the Western model of capitalism (read USA) has lifted more people out of poverty all the way around the world than ever before in the history of man.
You have no idea what you are about to throw away.
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Universal healthcare and a public college option for young people. I think those things would strengthen our nation a lot if we can somehow keep the left from letting the entire third world in at the same time.
There is no way possible to accomplish what you want. It is trillions of dollars a year (outstripping our GNP by double or more) and will run the tax rates up so far that there will be no return. We are already out of other peoples money. So where pray tell, will you get the money to afford this? Or are you like AOC, relying on magic bananas and unicorn farts?
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I think we're approaching a wall and that we simply don't have an option but to turn in another direction. I'm not even saying it'll be some wonderland, just that human labor will become obsolete and that that truth will have profound impacts on human society.
Yes, we are - That wall is all about big gov spending more than we have... And you want to spend more even yet.
You are part of the problem... Not the solution.
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@roamer_1
You can always vote yourself into Socialism.
But you'll have to shoot your way out of it.
@To-Whose-Benefit?
Exactly right. It has been proven over and over again... And yet they pine for it. It makes no sense.
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Yes, we are - That wall is all about big gov spending more than we have... And you want to spend more even yet.
You are part of the problem... Not the solution.
@roamer_1
If you ever make your way to NC or VA, you be sure to hit me up...the whiskey is on me.
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@roamer_1
If you ever make your way to NC or VA, you be sure to hit me up...the whiskey is on me.
@Axeslinger
Same to you, the other way around... Which would be more likely.
I truly doubt I will ever get more than a hundred miles from right here.
:laugh: :beer:
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If Norway isn't socialist then neither are Bernie Sanders and 99% of the people that would vote for him. Stop arguing in bad faith. There isn't a single thing that Bernie and his people want that the Scandinavian countries aren't already doing.
That's rich...claiming conservatives argue in bad faith.
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That's rich...claiming conservatives argue in bad faith.
I didn't make a general statement about conservatives. Sometimes some conservatives do argue in bad faith, and I think that's an example. There was also no implication that people on the left don't do it too.
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I didn't make a general statement about conservatives. Sometimes some conservatives do argue in bad faith, and I think that's an example. There was also no implication that people on the left don't do it too.
You wrote:
If Norway isn't socialist then neither are Bernie Sanders and 99% of the people that would vote for him. Stop arguing in bad faith. There isn't a single thing that Bernie and his people want that the Scandinavian countries aren't already doing.
I stand corrected. You said Briefers are arguing in bad faith. **nononono*
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If Norway isn't socialist then neither are Bernie Sanders and 99% of the people that would vote for him. Stop arguing in bad faith. There isn't a single thing that Bernie and his people want that the Scandinavian countries aren't already doing.
@Dexter
Have a look next door at Sweden.
The Swedes can't get a response out of their Govt today, and they seemingly can't get rid of it,
, As their sisters, daughters, and other ladies are being gang raped, beaten and cut up thanks to their bleep excuse for a Govt.
We're almost at the same point here because of our Socialist Party and their packed Courts.
And you want even More of it?
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@Dexter
Have a look next door at Sweden.
The Swedes can't get a response out of their Govt today, and they seemingly can't get rid of it,
, As their sisters, daughters, and other ladies are being gang raped, beaten and cut up thanks to their bleep excuse for a Govt.
We're almost at the same point here because of our Socialist Party and their packed Courts.
And you want even More of it?
He seems to be of the mind that "the wrong people are doing it. He can do better."
Sound familiar?
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I stand corrected. You said Briefers are arguing in bad faith. **nononono*
I think what Axe said is a variation of a bad faith argument that is sometimes used by conservatives.
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I think what Axe said is a variation of a bad faith argument that is sometimes used by conservatives.
Your knife is not sharp enough to split hairs like that.
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He seems to be of the mind that "the wrong people are doing it. He can do better."
Sound familiar?
Does it Ever!
Socialists always need a fall guy/alternate Ideology to blame their own system's structural faults on.
My favorite was one claiming Nazi Germany started out as the Socialist Dream, but Capitalists took it over, so we can't Call it Socialist.
The only people who don't understand Socialism are the Socialists themselves.
There's no such thing as "The Right People" to run Socialism. The system itself turns them into paper shuffling monsters.
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@Cyber Liberty
BTW, that Capitalists were the Evil Crew who wrecked the Third Reich, was a Counselor, reprogramming people in a Community Mental Health Center.
And folks wonder why I'm so down on the whole kit and kaboodle of them.
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Sander supporters always insist, despite his past statements, that he doesn’t want a South American failed system or a Cuba style system
Neither did the Venezuelans,the Cubans, the Russians, the Greeks, the Spanish, Italians, ect ect but that’s were they ended up
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Sander supporters always insist, despite his past statements, that he doesn’t want a South American failed system or a Cuba style system
Neither did the Venezuelans,the Cubans, the Russians, the Greeks, the Spanish, Italians, ect ect but that’s were they ended up
The Scandivian models, I doubt, make note of what I believe would be a closer sense of community among the Citizens than you'd find in Mediterranean countries.
It's too damn Cold up there for them to Not get close together.
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The Scandivian models, I doubt, make note of what I believe would be a closer sense of community among the Citizens than you'd find in Mediterranean countries.
It's too damn Cold up there for them to Not get close together.
Even the Scandinavian model is poised to feel financial pressures regarding the welfare state they created. An aging population plus low birth rates. In response, they, like many European countries believed importing people, mainly from N Africa and Middle Eastern countries will offset that and help finance the welfare state. The problem is that isn’t going as hoped
You cannot defeat math
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Even the Scandinavian model is poised to feel financial pressures regarding the welfare state they created. An aging population plus low birth rates. In response, they, like many European countries believed importing people, mainly from N Africa and Middle Eastern countries will offset that and help finance the welfare state. The problem is that isn’t going as hoped
You cannot defeat math
Math. No lie there... just the tax rate will prove that out.
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I think what Axe said is a variation of a bad faith argument that is sometimes used by conservatives.
And I think you answered so quickly that it proves you didn’t bother to read the article I linked.
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The churches used to care for their less fortunate flock. Too bad nobody attends anymore.
Ironically, the last best hope to sustain that lies with the Catholic Hispanic immigrant. Legal or otherwise.
@DCPatriot
The Catholic Church helps nobody but the Catholic Church.
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I don't predict food shortages being an issue in a world where human labor isn't needed anymore.
@Dexter
What will all the Pod People be eating,each other,or Soylent Green?
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If Norway isn't socialist then neither are Bernie Sanders and 99% of the people that would vote for him. Stop arguing in bad faith. There isn't a single thing that Bernie and his people want that the Scandinavian countries aren't already doing.
@Dexter
IIRC,Norway's socialism is paid for by North Sea oil. Bernies socialism is paid for using Fairy Farts.
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@DCPatriot
The Catholic Church helps nobody but the Catholic Church.
Not what I meant. I'm speaking at the parochial level, not from the Papacy.
Catholic Charities may have evolved since my days as an altar boy. :laugh: