The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on March 26, 2017, 10:24:04 pm
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Texas Republican Ted Poe Quits Freedom Caucus Over Their #NeverTrump Intransigence…
Posted on March 26, 2017 by sundance
Texas Republican Congressman Ted Poe has announced he is giving up membership in Hillary’s Favorite Caucus over their unwillingness to support President Trump:
(https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2017/03/house-freedom-caucus-1.jpg?w=640&h=475)
more
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017/03/26/texas-republican-ted-poe-quits-freedom-caucus-over-their-nevertrump-intransigence/
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"Hillary's favorite Caucas"?
Now this REALLY pizzes me off and reminds me of another infamous man, the butcher Louis Rose, of Nacogdoches, Texas
Moses Rose
Louis "Moses" Rose (1785 – 1850/1851), (also known as Lewis Rose), was according to Texas legend the only man who chose to leave the besieged Alamo in 1836, rather than fight and die there.
According to the most commonly told story, Rose was a French Jew who had served in the French army under Napoleon. It seems clear that he was at the Alamo for some unknown portion of the 13-day siege and missed the massacre at dawn on March 6, 1836. He knew many details about the Alamo garrison and gave the names of some participants, and, whenever asked, admitted that he had left when given the chance before the final assault, because he was not ready to die.
<..snip..>
On the other hand, a man named “Rose” from Nacogdoches was listed as an Alamo victim in the March 14, 1836, issue of the Telegraph and Texas Register. This first attempt to name the men at the Alamo was compiled by John William Smith, one of the last couriers to leave the Alamo, and Gerald Navan, who probably also left the Alamo as a courier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Rose (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_Rose)
John William Smith married my great great.... aunt.
Hope a real man with a spine primaries his azz, I'll donate, he's in a pretty Conservative district.
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Removing a weak link makes a stronger chain.
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Hope a real man with a spine primaries his azz, I'll donate, he's in a pretty Conservative district.
Ditto that.
Poe is in Southeast Texas, isn't he? If he is, I'll bet he is toast now.
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His District overwhelmingly went for Cruz in the primary.
President, Congressional District 2
Ted Cruz REP 41,862 45.79%
Donald J. Trump REP? 22,207 24.29%
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Race Total 91,417
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cb/Texas_US_Congressional_District_2_%28since_2013%29.tif/lossless-page1-400px-Texas_US_Congressional_District_2_%28since_2013%29.tif.png)
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I thought the issue was the AHCA vote, y'know, as in getting rid of Hillarycare/Obamacare/now the Elephant in the room with the GOPe label on the side?
I'm not sure where "#nevertrump" or the ridiculous "supporting Hillary canard" even enter into this. Oh wait, "Conservative Treehouse?" One of the monkeys must have found a stash of poo left over from the election and started throwing it down out of the tree.
I thought the rabies had finished that bunch off long ago.
Is the assertion that the Freedom Caucus is too Liberal?
because they did not vote for a piece of legislation like Trump wanted?
They don't work for Trump, they work for their constituents.
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I thought the issue was the AHCA vote, y'know, as in getting rid of Hillarycare/Obamacare/now the Elephant in the room with the GOPe label on the side?
I'm not sure where "#nevertrump" or the ridiculous "supporting Hillary canard" even enter into this. Oh wait, "Conservative Treehouse?" One of the monkeys must have found a stash of poo left over from the election and started throwing it down out of the tree.
I thought the rabies had finished that bunch off long ago.
Is the assertion that the Freedom Caucus is too Liberal?
because they did not vote for a piece of legislation like Trump wanted?
They don't work for Trump, they work for their constituents.
The "conservative" Nuthousers are nothing but lowlife garbage.
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Sundance always reminded me of that WhiteMaleArmyPrivate. That was my First Timeout over there.
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The "conservative" Nuthousers are nothing but lowlife garbage.
The Treehouse mob are out full force with the rest of the monkeys blaming Conservatives for the failure of a bill conservatives were not allowed to amend.
It was this sort of howling that led to some comparisons to and predictions of an outcome of this administration which compared it to undesirable governments from the last century.
First off, no one in Congress works for Mr. Trump, they work for their constituents.
Their obligation is to their constituents first. What they think of the President, whoever it is, has nothing to do with their vote--and that is as it should be.
Trump may request a Bill, he may express approval of a Bill, he may sign or veto it when it gets to his desk, but from the first inconvenienced electron to the final markup and vote, that is up to the Congress to write, amend, reconcile different versions, and vote on the bill.
Someone in Congress owns this Bill, and the Amendments passed thereto or defeated, the whole shootin' match. Not the people who did not vote for it.
Shifting blame to people because they would not march in lockstep may be the Trump way to do things, but let's not forget the reason this country exists is a group of people who would not march in lockstep with one person demanding compliance.
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This isn't about being #NeverTrump. It's about being #NeverLiberal. If a bill is introduced that removes federal mandates on who and what has to be covered, then the Freedom Caucus will vote for it. Unfortunately, ObamaCare-Lite is not that bill.
Stop telling my employer that they must provide coverage to the 'children' [sic] of my co-workers up until age 26. Even better, get the federal government the hell out of the private insurance market.
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Sundance always reminded me of that WhiteMaleArmyPrivate. That was my First Timeout over there.
Sundance was the one claiming they would out "Kike" Mark Levin's family for working on the Cruz campaign. Turned out that Levin's adult son volunteered for the Cruz campaign on the opposite end of the country.
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The Treehouse mob are out full force with the rest of the monkeys blaming Conservatives for the failure of a bill conservatives were not allowed to amend.
It was this sort of howling that led to some comparisons to and predictions of an outcome of this administration which compared it to undesirable governments from the last century.
First off, no one in Congress works for Mr. Trump, they work for their constituents.
Their obligation is to their constituents first. What they think of the President, whoever it is, has nothing to do with their vote--and that is as it should be.
Trump may request a Bill, he may express approval of a Bill, he may sign or veto it when it gets to his desk, but from the first inconvenienced electron to the final markup and vote, that is up to the Congress to write, amend, reconcile different versions, and vote on the bill.
Someone in Congress owns this Bill, and the Amendments passed thereto or defeated, the whole shootin' match. Not the people who did not vote for it.
Shifting blame to people because they would not march in lockstep may be the Trump way to do things, but let's not forget the reason this country exists is a group of people who would not march in lockstep with one person demanding compliance.
That's where I have an issue with Judge Jeannine over Paul Ryan.
Yes Paul Ryan sucks and the bill he and Trump tried forcing through congress sucks but its not up to the reality TV judge or the coward who put her up to it to demand that Ryan resign. That's up to the people who elected him (by a wide margin). She can take it and her weird foot fetish and stuff it where the sun don't shine.
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"Read My Lips, NO New Conservatives!"
(http://www.redstate.com/uploads/2016/02/donald-trump-is-still-soaring-in-iowa-but-there-are-now-some-clear-warning-signs.jpg)
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Rep. Ted Poe announced on Sunday he is resigning from the Freedom Caucus, which helped scuttle GOP attempts to pass a bill repealing and replacing Obamacare, The Texas Tribune reported.
"Saying no is easy, leading is hard, but that is what we were elected to do," Poe said in a statement. "Leaving this caucus will allow me to be a more effective member of Congress and advocate for the people of Texas."
In further explaining his decision, Poe said that "In order to deliver on the conservative agenda we have promised the American people for eight years, we must come together to find solutions to move this country forward."
Last week as the Freedom Caucus pressed for conservative changes to the Republican health care legislation, Poe was one of a handful of caucus members who was convinced to back the bill after lobbying from President Donald Trump.
However, most of the members held out, forcing the GOP to not bring the bill to a vote for fear it would fail to pass, and spurring criticism from fellow Republicans that the caucus is harming the party.
Shortly after the bill was pulled from its schedule vote on Friday, Poe sent out a tweet appearing to criticize caucus members.
http://www.newsmax.com/US/Ted-Poe-quits-Freedom-Caucus-healthcare/2017/03/26/id/780849/
It's RINO time. So here's one guy who wants to stop supporting the conservative effort in Congress.
Since he says the Freedom Caucus helped kill Ryancare, wonder why he doesn't just go ahead and become a Democrat? None of them supported it either.
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It would be refreshing to fill Tom Price's seat with a Freedom Caucus Conservative.
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I thought the issue was the AHCA vote, y'know, as in getting rid of Hillarycare/Obamacare/now the Elephant in the room with the GOPe label on the side?
I'm not sure where "#nevertrump" or the ridiculous "supporting Hillary canard" even enter into this. Oh wait, "Conservative Treehouse?" One of the monkeys must have found a stash of poo left over from the election and started throwing it down out of the tree.
I thought the rabies had finished that bunch off long ago.
Is the assertion that the Freedom Caucus is too Liberal?
because they did not vote for a piece of legislation like Trump wanted?
They don't work for Trump, they work for their constituents.
So Poe wants be officially go RINO as he does not wish to pursue the conservative agenda that he supported as the Freedom Caucus would not support Ryancare?
Hey Ted, why not just go ahead and join Democrat party, they didn't support the bill either.
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Apparently Mr. Poe likes Meatloaf.
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Apparently Mr. Poe likes Meatloaf.
From behind
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From behind
I am not searching for that recipe @Cripplecreek
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These Héros don't need a coward in their midst.
Give the man some orange knee pads.
You N. Houstonians seriously need to be finding a candidate to primary this SOB.
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Standing up against Trump on any issue whatsoever, even when they are right, is bad to the cultists
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If I were new to this planet .. I'd walk away from this thread convinced conservatives were crazy, mean-spirited losers. There isn't one post of substance rooted in thought.
You must be so proud. :smokin:
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@Right_in_Virginia
At least you finally admit that you are not a Conservative.
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Let's remember how we got ObamaCare in the first place.
The Democratic-controlled Senate took a bill from Congress and gutted it completely. Next, a select few met privately in a back room and whipped up a magic potion not even their fellow Democrats could see, discuss, or offer the slightest input towards. At the very last moment the magic potion was unveiled to the world. Violating the Senate's own rules for providing ample time to review the bill, Nancy Pelosi forced a quickie vote. And for good measure she tossed in a few billion in bribes, one being called the Louisiana Purchase.
In short, 1/6 of the entire American economy was embezzled from the private sector and snatched up by a small number of powerful elite. The entire snake in the grass process was similar to what you would find in Russia or your run of the mill Banana Republic.
This would be the exact opposite of Paul Ryan employing the democratic process where he followed the rules in an open, orderly, transparent process. Bitch about the outcome all you want. Unless you want a Pelosi-style strong arm heist of our democratic process you might want to step back and look at the big picture. The ugly and problematic process set forth by The Founders isn't supposed to be pretty, but can be appreciated warts and all.
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This would be the exact opposite of Paul Ryan employing the democratic process where he followed the rules in an open, orderly, transparent process.
It was most definitely not
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Let's remember how we got ObamaCare in the first place.
The Democratic-controlled Senate took a bill from Congress and gutted it completely. Next, a select few met privately in a back room and whipped up a magic potion not even their fellow Democrats could see, discuss, or offer the slightest input towards. At the very last moment the magic potion was unveiled to the world. Violating the Senate's own rules for providing ample time to review the bill, Nancy Pelosi forced a quickie vote. And for good measure she tossed in a few billion in bribes, one being called the Louisiana Purchase.
In short, 1/6 of the entire American economy was embezzled from the private sector and snatched up by a small number of powerful elite. The entire snake in the grass process was similar to what you would find in Russia or your run of the mill Banana Republic.
And it worked. They got their bill passed into law.
This would be the exact opposite of Paul Ryan employing the democratic process where he followed the rules in an open, orderly, transparent process. Bitch about the outcome all you want. Unless you want a Pelosi-style strong arm heist of our democratic process you might want to step back and look at the big picture. The ugly and problematic process set forth by The Founders isn't supposed to be pretty, but can be appreciated warts and all.
The things you're complaining about here are internal procedural issues, based on rules of parliamentary procedure that appear nowhere in the Constitution. Ultimately, the only "democratic process" that really matters is that a majority votes is required to pass a law, and that's what actually happened.
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@Right_in_Virginia
At least you finally admit that you are not a Conservative.
Many of them never were. In the last few months before I walked away from TOS I saw clowns like CringingNegativityNetwork say that Obamacare was great but only Trump could make it better. BlackFemaleArmyCaptain was regaling us with tales of how Bill Clinton was actually a great president.
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@Right_in_Virginia
At least you finally admit that you are not a Conservative.
Yep, the stripes are finally showing.
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If I were new to this planet .. I'd walk away from this thread convinced conservatives were crazy, mean-spirited losers. There isn't one post of substance rooted in thought.
You must be so proud. :smokin:
In the case of the recent kerfluffle that allied the Freedom Caucus firmly with Democrats everywhere, they're crazy, mean-spirited winners too.
The job-killing employer mandate remains
The freedom-killing individual mandate remains
The open-ended Medicaid commitment remains
The budget-busting subsidies remain
The growth-killing taxes remain.
All thanks to the Freedom Caucus who can't take yes for answer.
They are indeed Hillary's favorite caucus.
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In the case of the recent kerfluffle that allied the Freedom Caucus firmly with Democrats everywhere, they're crazy, mean-spirited winners too.
The job-killing employer mandate remains
The freedom-killing individual mandate remains
The open-ended Medicaid commitment remains
The budget-busting subsidies remain
The growth-killing taxes remain.
All thanks to the Freedom Caucus who can't take yes for answer.
They are indeed Hillary's favorite caucus.
The communists in the GOP always have the option open of acting like conservatives when it is time to vote on something that counts. They voted to repeal Obamacare when it didn't count (and they knew it), they can damn well do it now.
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The communists in the GOP always have the option open of acting like conservatives when it is time to vote on something that counts. They voted to repeal Obamacare when it didn't count (and they knew it), they can damn well do it now.
No they can't, and no they won't. The ACA lives - get used to it. The Freedom Caucus has shown they cannot be trusted, and cannot be part of the next coalition.
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No they can't, and no they won't. The ACA lives - get used to it. The Freedom Caucus has shown they cannot be trusted, and cannot be part of the next coalition.
Trusted? Who in the hell do you think they work for? Ryan? (NOPE) Trump? (Guess again!) They work for their constituents. What coalition? If the RINOs and The Democrats want to link up and Trump wants to sign off on that, it just proves what many of us have thought of Trump and the RINOs from day one.
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Trusted? Who in the hell do you think they work for? Ryan? (NOPE) Trump? (Guess again!) They work for their constituents. What coalition? If the RINOs and The Democrats want to link up and Trump wants to sign off on that, it just proves what many of us have thought of Trump and the RINOs from day one.
Trump preferred to work with conservatives. If conservatives won't compromise, then support for fixing the ACA must come from elsewhere.
Give Trump credit for giving conservatives the first shot at being part of the solution. But instead they've dissed their own party's leadership and chose to be part of the problem. ObamaCare lives, thanks to the Freedom Caucus. Why should Trump (or Ryan) cut them any slack going forward on grounds of either loyalty or ideology? It's time to move on and seek out another coalition that isn't dependent on their support.
Can't blame Trump for scuttling these self-serving clowns.
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Trusted? Who in the hell do you think they work for? Ryan? (NOPE) Trump? (Guess again!) They work for their constituents. What coalition? If the RINOs and The Democrats want to link up and Trump wants to sign off on that, it just proves what many of us have thought of Trump and the RINOs from day one.
Honestly I can't figure out what a Trumper's claim to conservatism is at this point. They want blind obedience with no constitution, federalism, or principles getting in the way. They are progressives.
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Trump preferred to work with conservatives. If conservatives won't compromise, then support for fixing the ACA must come from elsewhere.
Give Trump credit for giving conservatives the first shot at being part of the solution. But instead they've dissed their own party's leadership and chose to be part of the problem. ObamaCare lives, thanks to the Freedom Caucus. Why should Trump (or Ryan) cut them any slack going forward on grounds of either loyalty or ideology? It's time to move on and seek out another coalition that isn't dependent on their support.
Can't blame Trump for scuttling these self-serving clowns.
@Jazzhead
'My way or the highway' may be a chapter in the Art of the Deal, but it is not any form of compromise.
Go ahead persuade a few Dems to back your crappy alternative to ACA, I'll keep my Integrity and my ideology.
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If I were new to this planet .. I'd walk away from this thread convinced conservatives were crazy, mean-spirited losers. There isn't one post of substance rooted in thought.
You must be so proud. :smokin:
Trump and his supporters are the wolves voting on what's for lunch. Great governing strategy.
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Trump and his supporters are the wolves voting on what's for lunch. Great governing strategy.
Personally I'm pleased to see the rabid hatred of conservatives so clearly exposed. They're proving that Trump and his supporters are exactly what they claimed they were fighting against.
I'm spreading the evidence far and wide so conservatives can see the rabid contempt Trumpers really feel for actual conservatives.
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Trump preferred to work with conservatives.
If Trump had worked with Conservatives, we would have a law now. But instead of Trump working with Conservatives, he threatened them instead.
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No they can't, and no they won't. The ACA lives - get used to it.
Where do I send the bill? If you're going to stand in the way of getting rid of the mandate, you can at least pony up the hundreds of dollars in penalties I'm being forced to pay for literally doing nothing.
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Trump preferred to work with conservatives. If conservatives won't compromise, then support for fixing the ACA must come from elsewhere.
Give Trump credit for giving conservatives the first shot at being part of the solution. But instead they've dissed their own party's leadership and chose to be part of the problem. ObamaCare lives, thanks to the Freedom Caucus. Why should Trump (or Ryan) cut them any slack going forward on grounds of either loyalty or ideology? It's time to move on and seek out another coalition that isn't dependent on their support.
Can't blame Trump for scuttling these self-serving clowns.
@Jazzhead
Trump promised to repeal Obamacare. This bill wasn't a repeal, it was a slightly modify.
Conservatives have been compromising for the last 8 years. The voters don't want compromise, they want Obamacare repealed.
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If Trump had worked with Conservatives, we would have a law now. But instead of Trump working with Conservatives, he threatened them instead.
He tried to set the terms, as if he were the only potential buyer in a distressed property sale. He's out of his niche and out of luck. No more than a handful of blue dog dems will sign on, unless they think it will be a poison pill for his next campaign.
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Where do I send the bill? If you're going to stand in the way of getting rid of the mandate, you can at least pony up the hundreds of dollars in penalties I'm being forced to pay for literally doing nothing.
Send your bill to the Freedom Caucus - the mandates would be gone if not for those fools.
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He tried to set the terms, as if he were the only potential buyer in a distressed property sale. He's out of his niche and out of luck. No more than a handful of blue dog dems will sign on, unless they think it will be a poison pill for his next campaign.
Trump performed brilliantly, in my view. He supported a bill crafted by the GOP leadership, supported compromises to the bill to try get it passed, and then quickly jettisoned it in favor of other priorities when it became clear that the Freedom Caucus was going rogue. You cannot partner with fools. Time to move on.
ACA will remain the law of the land for the foreseeable future. Get used to it.
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The voters don't want compromise, they want Obamacare repealed.
You're fooling yourself. The voters only want the mandates gone; the rest of it they're perfectly happy with.
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Trump performed brilliantly, in my view. He supported a bill crafted by the GOP leadership, supported compromises to the bill to try get it passed, and then quickly jettisoned it in favor of other priorities when it became clear that the Freedom Caucus was going rogue. You cannot partner with fools. Time to move on.
ACA will remain the law of the land for the foreseeable future. Get used to it.
You forgot the part @Jazzhead about blaming everyone (Dems, FC) for the failure of the bill to pass and sending Judge Pirro out to call for Ryan's head, Classy indeed.
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You're fooling yourself. The voters only want the mandates gone; the rest of it they're perfectly happy with.
@Jazzhead
Nonsense. I know thats in the talking points you've been given but there's a lot more than that wrong with Obamacare.
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'They'd vote no against the Ten Commandments': GOP congressman resigns from conservative group
Maxwell Tani
Rep. Toe Poe explained on Monday why he resigned from the House Freedom Caucus, a group of hardline conservative lawmakers who helped block President Donald Trump and House Speaker Paul Ryan's healthcare bill.
Poe said on CNN's "New Day" that the conservative caucus "continues to be the opposition caucus against anything in the Republican party."
The Texas congressman argued that while Republican leadership attempted to ignore the concerns of its most conservative members in the past, members were key players in the negotiation of the American Healthcare Act.
"There's nothing that could be added to the bill that the Freedom Caucus would ever vote yes on," Poe said. "I got the opinion that there are some members of the Freedom Caucus — they'd vote no against the Ten Commandments if it came up for a vote."
Poe claimed that although it was "not a perfect bill," Republicans "promised for years" that they would repeal President Barack Obama's Affordable Care Act should they hold the White House.
"We voted 60 times to repeal Obamacare. Then when it came down to repealing it, when it actually counted, people said 'Nah, I'm not going to vote to repeal the bill,'" Poe said.
<..snip..>
http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-poe-explains-why-quit-house-freedom-caucus-2017-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-poe-explains-why-quit-house-freedom-caucus-2017-3)
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"We voted 60 times to repeal Obamacare. Then when it came down to repealing it, when it actually counted, people said 'Nah, I'm not going to vote to repeal the bill,'" Poe said.
This Idiot is still pushing that the Bill was a Repeal of the ACA, which IT WAS NOT!
His District borders Sheila Jackson Lee's District, guess all the fumes from the traffic is making both of them Delusional.
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Send your bill to the Freedom Caucus - the mandates would be gone if not for those fools.
Bullshit. The bill you support has mandates (which you also support).
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Another to drive over the cliff with Trump and Ryan in a classical Thelma and Louise move.
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'They'd vote no against the Ten Commandments': GOP congressman resigns from conservative group
Maxwell Tani
Rep. Toe Poe explained on Monday why he resigned from the House Freedom Caucus, a group of hardline conservative lawmakers who helped block President Donald Trump and House Speaker Paul Ryan's healthcare bill.
Poe said on CNN's "New Day" that the conservative caucus "continues to be the opposition caucus against anything in the Republican party."
The Texas congressman argued that while Republican leadership attempted to ignore the concerns of its most conservative members in the past, members were key players in the negotiation of the American Healthcare Act.
"There's nothing that could be added to the bill that the Freedom Caucus would ever vote yes on," Poe said. "I got the opinion that there are some members of the Freedom Caucus — they'd vote no against the Ten Commandments if it came up for a vote."
Poe claimed that although it was "not a perfect bill," Republicans "promised for years" that they would repeal President Barack Obama's Affordable Care Act should they hold the White House.
"We voted 60 times to repeal Obamacare. Then when it came down to repealing it, when it actually counted, people said 'Nah, I'm not going to vote to repeal the bill,'" Poe said.
<..snip..>
http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-poe-explains-why-quit-house-freedom-caucus-2017-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-poe-explains-why-quit-house-freedom-caucus-2017-3)
Trumps party is far from what I know as Republican. It a whole different beast of praise and worship to the Donald.
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@Jazzhead
Nonsense. I know thats in the talking points you've been given but there's a lot more than that wrong with Obamacare.
Of course there's a lot wrong with the ACA. But conservative extremists have effectively partnered with the Dems to keep it. Trump needs to find a coalition that can fix it. It will have to be a centrist coalition.
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Poe said on CNN's "New Day" that the conservative caucus "continues to be the opposition caucus against anything in the Republican party."
The Texas congressman argued that while Republican leadership attempted to ignore the concerns of its most conservative members in the past, members were key players in the negotiation of the American Healthcare Act.
"There's nothing that could be added to the bill that the Freedom Caucus would ever vote yes on," Poe said. "I got the opinion that there are some members of the Freedom Caucus — they'd vote no against the Ten Commandments if it came up for a vote."
Right on, Rep. Poe! The FC cares more about ginning up anger and resentment among the talk radio set (you know, the folks who don't work during the day), than doing the peoples' business.
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Of course there's a lot wrong with the ACA. But conservative extremists have effectively partnered with the Dems to keep it. Trump needs to find a coalition that can fix it. It will have to be a centrist coalition.
@Jazzhead
Which is it comrade? The mandates or the whole thing. You can't seem to make up your own mind, or should I say your handlers cant. Conservative extremists. LOL man you are using every phrase in your mouthpiece code book aren't you.
This bill was ACA lite. Pass the ACA repeal act thats in committee.
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ACA will remain the law of the land for the foreseeable future. Get used to it.
The Freedom Caucus is not going to panic just because Trump set an arbitrary deadline. They know he won't mosey into 2020 with Obamacare in a death spiral. Four vacant House seats are set to be filled over the next few months. If Ryan is worth a darn, he will work with the expanded majority to get a bill past the House, and let McConnell take the heat for watering it down.
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Of course there's a lot wrong with the ACA. But conservative extremists have effectively partnered with the Dems to keep it. Trump needs to find a coalition that can fix it. It will have to be a centrist coalition.
You people have been trying to lump Conservatives in with the Democrats from the first tweet out of Trump, and the first Conservative who said he wasn't one of us.
Give that tedious crap a rest.
It is as tired as the canard about "If you don't support A you support B", when more accurately, you just might not think either is worth a plugged nickel.
It is such a transparently ridiculous argument a fifth grader would be embarrassed to resort to it in a debate.
If you need new writers for talking points, bite the bullet and hire some, willya?
Not partnering with the Liberals in the GOP is not partnering with the even more liberal liberals in the Democrat Party.
The only reason Conservatives seem to be "extremists" to the Liberal Republicans is because the "mainstream" RINO herd is way out in Left field, across the foul line.
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Right on, Rep. Poe! The FC cares more about ginning up anger and resentment among the talk radio set (you know, the folks who don't work during the day), than doing the peoples' business.
So how's your workday going since Air America shut down? Do you get paid by the post, the word, the column inch or what?
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Trusted? Who in the hell do you think they work for? Ryan? (NOPE) Trump? (Guess again!) They work for their constituents. What coalition? If the RINOs and The Democrats want to link up and Trump wants to sign off on that, it just proves what many of us have thought of Trump and the RINOs from day one.
Rush is talking about this right now. Positing that some say Trump didn't know (or care) what was in the bill. Since Trump is on record as being pro-single-payer, I'd have to say that he knew what was in it and is playing that multi-dimensional chess he's so famous for playing (according to Trumpists here). Single-payer is the ultimate goal here, no matter what crap legislation gets "passed".
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Right on, Rep. Poe! The FC cares more about ginning up anger and resentment among the talk radio set (you know, the folks who don't work during the day), than doing the peoples' business.
The people's business? Does Bill Clinton know you stole his talking points?
Btw, these Reps are doing exactly what their constituents elected them to do.
Try introducing a bill that actually gets rid of the mandates, and Freedom Caucus members will vote for it.
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The people's business? Does Bill Clinton know you stole his talking points?
Btw, these Reps are doing exactly what their constituents elected them to do.
Try introducing a bill that actually gets rid of the mandates, and Freedom Caucus members will vote for it.
The AHCA did get rid of both the employer and individual mandates. But the Freedom Caucus couldn't take yes for an answer.
It also - for the first time ever - would have converted an open-ended federal entitlement program into a fixed set of block grants to the states. That Medicaid reform was the true conservative reform at the heart of the AHCA. But the Freedom Caucus couldn't take yes for an answer.
Rep. Poe is right to disassociate himself from these idiots.
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Not surprising Poe left...he's scores a 77 on the Conservative Review Conservative Scorecard.
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Rep. Poe is right to disassociate himself from these idiots.
Poe is only slightly more Consersavative than you. Which means neither one of you are.
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Poe is making a mistake here.
This wasn't a repeal bill.
It left far to much of health insurance under government control.
When was the last time you saw a law "repealed" that had the basic framework and rules still intact?
Slavery? No.
Prohibition? No.
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The AHCA did get rid of both the employer and individual mandates. It also - for the first time ever - would have converted an open-ended federal entitlement program into a fixed set of block grants to the states. That Medicaid reform was the true conservative reform at the heart of the AHCA.
That is all completely true, and isn't just "nibbling at the edges" of ObamaCare as some have said. It's a first step, but a significant one. And certainly better than what we have sitting here today.
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Send your bill to the Freedom Caucus - the mandates would be gone if not for those fools.
that is an outright lie.
Many more Democrats blocked the bill than the Freedom Caucus.
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That is all completely true, and isn't just "nibbling at the edges" of ObamaCare as some have said. It's a first step, but a significant one. And certainly better than what we have sitting here today.
It was a historically important first step - one that hasn't been accomplished with any large federal entitlement program to date. These programs acquire constituencies that are politically impossible to break. But the ACHA's block grants to the states would have, if successful, created the model and precedent for unwinding the federal leviathan.
But it wasn't good enough for the Freedom Caucus - its stubbornness in refusing to go along with party leadership has set back the cause of free markets. The blow may or may not be fatal. But with conservatives unwilling to join a coalition of the willing, the temptation will indeed be great to move toward single payer.
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that is an outright lie.
Many more Democrats blocked the bill than the Freedom Caucus.
But nobody expects Democrats to vote for bills that end individual and business taxes, convert an entitlement program to a block grant, and reduce federal spending on health care by hundreds of billions of dollars. People do expect conservatives to support such things.
Maybe the FC is simply playing a bit of poker here, and trying a bluff to ensure they get the most conservative bill possible before voting for it. So maybe they come back to the table, work out something with the moderates, and a bill gets pushed through. But if they're really going to hold out for "full repeal or nothing", then it's going to be nothing, and the cause of conservatism will be set back.
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that is an outright lie.
Many more Democrats blocked the bill than the Freedom Caucus.
No, it's the truth - but I recommend a good bourbon, consumed neat, if you insist on being blinded to reality.
We all knew going in both the no Dems would support the AHCA, and that near-unity among the GOP caucus was therefore essential. That could have been a good thing - the GOP didn't have to consider the Dems so long as it could keep its caucus together. That's why the bill was carefully crafted to not be so radical that it couldn't win support from GOP moderates. I guess leadership figured conservatives would be well satisfied by the ACHA's conservative changes. But the Freedom Caucus decided to flex its muscle and kill the bill while defying both Congressional leadership and the President.
The FC is no friend of conservative values. Its hubris has betrayed those values.
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It was a historically important first step - one that hasn't been accomplished with any large federal entitlement program to date. These programs acquire constituencies that are politically impossible to break. But the ACHA's block grants to the states would have, if successful, created the model and precedent for unwinding the federal leviathan.
But it wasn't good enough for the Freedom Caucus - its stubbornness in refusing to go along with party leadership has set back the cause of free markets. The blow may or may not be fatal. But with conservatives unwilling to join a coalition of the willing, the temptation will indeed be great to move toward single payer.
@Jazzhead Block Grants to the States, which you keep bringing up, are all well and good AND will probably be a part of the solution in the Replacement Bill, there were other things in the ACHA bill, to numerous to mention that were just a bridge to far for the Freedom caucus, repeal the damn thing, unlike others here, I believe the votes would be there, then start the Legislative process of maintaining the things that voters want and clearly don't want.
Why can't we have both, it's not either/or.
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But nobody expects Democrats to vote for bills that end individual and business taxes, convert an entitlement program to a block grant, and reduce federal spending on health care by hundreds of billions of dollars. People do expect conservatives to support such things.
Maybe the FC is simply playing a bit of poker here, and trying a bluff to ensure they get the most conservative bill possible before voting for it. So maybe they come back to the table, work out something with the moderates, and a bill gets pushed through. But if they're really going to hold out for "full repeal or nothing", then it's going to be nothing, and the cause of conservatism will be set back.
Maj. Bill, you've been a most eloquent exponent of rationality and common sense. Bravo!
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The AHCA did get rid of both the employer and individual mandates. But the Freedom Caucus couldn't take yes for an answer.
The AHCA still requires adult children of policy holders be allowed on family policies up to age 26. And it prohibits insurers from charging extra for pre-existing conditions. This is what is known as 'federal mandates'. And these are mandates that you have openly supported. So stop lying about how AHCA gets rid of mandates. It doesn't. Because if it did, you would no longer support it.
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No they can't, and no they won't. The ACA lives - get used to it. The Freedom Caucus has shown they cannot be trusted, and cannot be part of the next coalition.
The RINO-DEM Coalition is in charge and we all know how trustworthy they are.
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....unlike others here, I believe the votes would be there, then start the Legislative process of maintaining the things that voters want and clearly don't want.
Ultimately, that's unknowable for us here, and we're all just reading the tea leaves and trying to figure out if the votes are there, or not. I'll just say that if the votes are there, then we should expect to see a vote on that at some point.
If the votes really aren't there, then I hope the FC is willing to support the most conservative bill that can be passed.
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Ultimately, that's unknowable for us here, and we're all just reading the tea leaves and trying to figure out if the votes are there, or not. I'll just say that if the votes are there, then we should expect to see a vote on that at some point.
If the votes really aren't there, then I hope the FC is willing to support the most conservative bill that can be passed.
Agree @Maj. Bill Martin
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The AHCA still requires adult children of policy holders be allowed on family policies up to age 26. And it prohibits insurers from charging extra for pre-existing conditions. This is what is known as 'federal mandates'. And these are mandates that you have openly supported. So stop lying about how AHCA gets rid of mandates. It doesn't. Because if it did, you would no longer support it.
Allowing kids on their parents' policies until age 26 is wildly popular. Only the nuts are proposing doing away with that change. The rest all want to be re-elected.
And, yes, guaranteed issue insurance is at the heart of the ACA. And yes, I support retaining that requirement, coupled with an insurer's ability to punish free riders. That's because the alternative is single payer.
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No, it's the truth
you can call it any way you want, but it is most definitely a lie. Telling it again and again does not change the fact that many more Dems were against it.
Your spin just doesn't work any more here, so go ahead and begin your plan to change screen name so as to infiltrate another way.
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But nobody expects Democrats to vote for bills that end individual and business taxes, convert an entitlement program to a block grant, and reduce federal spending on health care by hundreds of billions of dollars. People do expect conservatives to support such things.
Maybe the FC is simply playing a bit of poker here, and trying a bluff to ensure they get the most conservative bill possible before voting for it. So maybe they come back to the table, work out something with the moderates, and a bill gets pushed through. But if they're really going to hold out for "full repeal or nothing", then it's going to be nothing, and the cause of conservatism will be set back.
this could have been said more concisely by simply saying all Dems lie anyway.
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that is an outright lie.
Many more Democrats blocked the bill than the Freedom Caucus.
I don't know if it is a deliberate lie or not, but it is definitely a break with reality.
Not only did many more democrats block the bill, more republicans than conservatives also blocked the bill. Jazz is way off on this one.
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And, yes, guaranteed issue insurance is at the heart of the ACA. And yes, I support retaining that requirement, coupled with an insurer's ability to punish free riders. That's because the alternative is single payer.
I think there are ways to address the free-rider problem without guaranteed issue, but they're not one-liners. You do something akin to what's been called "guaranteed renewal", where people who lost coverage because of involuntary unemployment, for example, do get guaranteed issue. But it is denied for anyone whose employment status has not changed within the last 30 days, or whatever. The goal would be to prevent people from signing up only after they've gotten sick, and there are ways to write that so as to prevent the gaming of the system.
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Allowing kids on their parents' policies until age 26 is wildly popular.
If that were true, then there would be no need to implement it at the point of a gun.
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Rush is talking about this right now. Positing that some say Trump didn't know (or care) what was in the bill. Since Trump is on record as being pro-single-payer, I'd have to say that he knew what was in it and is playing that multi-dimensional chess he's so famous for playing (according to Trumpists here). Single-payer is the ultimate goal here, no matter what crap legislation gets "passed".
Yep. After years of the Kabuki theater in DC tilting at the windmill of total repeal, now they throw in the towel after that half-hearted mess?
With a few exceptions, the House GOP, and POTUS are on the same page.
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And, yes, guaranteed issue insurance is at the heart of the ACA. And yes, I support retaining that requirement, coupled with an insurer's ability to punish free riders. That's because the alternative is single payer.
I'm not asking for a free ride. I have always made sure my bills will be paid, even in the event of my demise.
What I want is to not be penalized for paying my bill, my own damned way. How is that a "free ride"?
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I think there are ways to address the free-rider problem without guaranteed issue, but they're not one-liners. You do something akin to what's been called "guaranteed renewal", where people who lost coverage because of involuntary unemployment, for example, do get guaranteed issue. But it is denied for anyone whose employment status has not changed within the last 30 days, or whatever. The goal would be to prevent people from signing up only after they've gotten sick, and there are ways to write that so as to prevent the gaming of the system.
So people who were involuntarily separated from their income stream 6 months, a year ago who lost insurance don't get in? What if their carrier just stopped writing health policies? The ACA wrecked a lot of jobs out there, too, and closed some businesses. That damage didn't happen in the last 30 days.
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Not surprising Poe left...he's scores a 77 on the Conservative Review Conservative Scorecard.
And that's a disappointment. Since... I voted for him, thinking he was an honorable man. Had jury duty once with him as the judge. He was very impressive 'back then'. Things change.
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So people who were involuntarily separated from their income stream 6 months, a year ago who lost insurance don't get in? What if their carrier just stopped writing health policies? The ACA wrecked a lot of jobs out there, too, and closed some businesses. That damage didn't happen in the last 30 days.
No. The point is what you are trying to stop are people who are working, have good jobs, but decide not to buy health insurance. Then when they get sick, they suddenly sign up with their preexisting condition and demand coverage. That's the way to game guaranteed issue, and why people claim a mandate is required.
I'm saying just target that gaming directly rather than using guaranteed issue. So if you have a job, are eligible for insurance, but choose not to buy it, then you are not entitled to sign up with pre-existing conditions.
On the other hand, if the reason you don't have insurance is not because of choice, but because you lost your job, or your carrier went under, or you are new to the workforce, then you get to sign up even with pre-existing conditions, because you're not trying to game the system.
It still leaves people with the option of foregoing coverage and choosing to run the risk. But if that's the case, and they get ill, then they don't get coverage, and it all must be out of pocket.
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If that were true, then there would be no need to implement it at the point of a gun.
IMHO at 26 if you're still considering yourself a kid and depending on your parents then something in how you were raised went terribly wrong.
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If I were new to this planet .. I'd walk away from this thread convinced conservatives were crazy, mean-spirited losers. There isn't one post of substance rooted in thought.
You must be so proud. :smokin:
@Right_in_Virginia
What's your excuse?
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@Right_in_Virginia
What's your excuse?
Still wants to have Trump's next baby???
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No. The point is what you are trying to stop are people who are working, have good jobs, but decide not to buy health insurance. Then when they get sick, they suddenly sign up with their preexisting condition and demand coverage. That's the way to game guaranteed issue, and why people claim a mandate is required.
We got 1.3 million known AIDS/HIV patients with Obamacare who likely had no health insurance. (Providers have been running blood tests for years, now, you think they didn't check?) Average cost has been estimated between $600,000 and $750,000 in ongoing medical care for these folks over the next 25 years, and there will be more.
I'm saying just target that gaming directly rather than using guaranteed issue. So if you have a job, are eligible for insurance, but choose not to buy it, then you are not entitled to sign up with pre-existing conditions.
We have already been gamed. The only people who can make a solid economic case for buying horrible plans (with subsidies) have or anticipate serious medical problems and did have. Like I laid out for someone the other day, the cost of the basic cheapest, highest deductible, health plan for the family of 4 which includes two dependent grandchildren will exceed our social security payments long before they are 26. For much of America also raising grandchildren, the choice becomes one of eating and having heat or buying insurance. With the chances of starving or freezing approaching 100%, you gamble that you won't need the insurance.
On the other hand, if the reason you don't have insurance is not because of choice, but because you lost your job, or your carrier went under, or you are new to the workforce, then you get to sign up even with pre-existing conditions, because you're not trying to game the system.
It still leaves people with the option of foregoing coverage and choosing to run the risk. But if that's the case, and they get ill, then they don't get coverage, and it all must be out of pocket.
With the exception of anything really major, it is now. The $14K deductible on the cheapest plan offered in my state is almost double our actual annual average health CARE costs. the cost of the insurance is $28K. That's $42K of spanking before insurance kicks in?
Not counting co-pays? No thanks, I'll take my chances.
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WhiteMaleArmyPrivate
:silly: