The Briefing Room
State Chapters => Arizona => Topic started by: mystery-ak on August 20, 2019, 03:02:50 pm
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Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
By Reid Wilson - 08/20/19 06:01 AM EDT
Sen. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) trails her Democratic opponent for the first time, according to a new survey, as President Trump's approval rating falls in the key swing state.
Retired astronaut Mark Kelly leads McSally, the retired fighter pilot-turned-politician, by a 46 percent to 41 percent margin, according to the poll conducted by OH Predictive Insights, a Phoenix-based pollster, and released first to The Hill.
The survey represents the first time this year that OH Predictive Insights has shown Kelly leading McSally. In February, the firm showed McSally leading by 2 percentage points. In May, McSally led by a single point.
more
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/458031-arizona-poll-shows-kelly-overtaking-mcsally
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It was bound to be close, no matter who is against her. Her House record is not very good (having come from a liberal District), and one false move will collapse her.
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Kelly sounds like a disaster to me.
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Kelly sounds like a disaster to me.
And Arizona voters bought McCain's "hero" act for decades. Kelly can see the plum opportunity he has to play the "astronaut hero" act, and that's why he has a chance despite his well-known hatred of guns.
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And Arizona voters bought McCain's "hero" act for decades. Kelly can see the plum opportunity he has to play the "astronaut hero" act, and that's why he has a chance despite his well-known hatred of guns.
Having your wife take one to the head doesn't hurt your cause either and he has played that to the max.
As for McCain.....I could never stand the guy.
When they nominated him in 2008, I cried.
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Having your wife take one to the head doesn't hurt your cause either and he has played that to the max.
As for McCain.....I could never stand the guy.
When they nominated him in 2008, I cried.
Yes, 2008 was my angst, but writ nationwide. I was the least disappointed person in the world during that whole fiasco, that jerk had been toying with the emotions of the people of AZ for decades, and that was the cherry on the top of the pile of dog doo.
Before McStain was a Senator, he was my Congressman so I'm a longtime "fan." And, on another thread I noted before Sinema was my Senator, and she too, was my Congressperson. Lucky in love, unlucky in my politics, eh? :shrug:
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Democrat caught in a lie. Film at 11.
Dem Senate Candidate Kelly Wanted Ex-Wife Jailed Amid Custody Dispute
Court records contradict autobiographical claims of an ‘amicable’ divorce
Alana Goodman - October 30, 2020 9:05 PM
Arizona Democratic Senate candidate Mark Kelly made an odd request years after his 2004 divorce: The famed astronaut petitioned a Texas court in 2010 to sentence his ex-wife to 6 months in jail and 10 years of supervised release after she moved to a new town a few miles outside of their children’s school district.
The court records from Galveston County, Texas—which include recriminations from both sides and detail a lengthy custody dispute—show that Kelly claimed his ex-wife Amy’s move was a violation of their custody agreement.
The documents, which include a temporary restraining order issued against Kelly in 2004, appear to contradict his description of the divorce as "amicable" in his 2011 autobiography. The order was never served, according to Kelly's campaign. ...
The astronaut-turned-businessman who claims to have a net worth up to $27 million also requested that his ex-wife pay his attorney's fees if the dispute went to trial. She submitted a notice to the court days later saying that she had filed for bankruptcy the prior month.
Kelly has said he met his current wife, former congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, at a leadership seminar in China in 2003. His first wife, Amy Kelly, filed for divorce in June 2004. ...
Free Beacon (https://freebeacon.com/2020-election/dem-senate-candidate-kelly-wanted-ex-wife-jailed-during-custody-dispute/)
How Bidenesque of him.
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Leftists in AZ didn't give a crap that McStain dumped the wife who stood by him while he was a POW in order to marry the Beer Baroness, so why would they care about the loony astronaut's predilections?
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I am thinking of starting a thread on McCain to get as much information as possible about him and what he did.
As I've repeated....I never liked the guy. He was very inconsistent. He almost seemed to have a chemical imbalance.
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I am thinking of starting a thread on McCain to get as much information as possible about him and what he did.
As I've repeated....I never liked the guy. He was very inconsistent. He almost seemed to have a chemical imbalance.
I'm the right guy to ask...I was part of the Recall McCain committee, back before 9/11/2001. But I want to think about it a bit, to get a feel for the most egregious examples of his perfidy. They are legion. He was the biggest sore loser in the Senate, yet he threw the Election to O'Bastard in 2008.
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I'm the right guy to ask...I was part of the Recall McCain committee, back before 9/11/2001. But I want to think about it a bit, to get a feel for the most egregious examples of his perfidy. They are legion. He was the biggest sore loser in the Senate, yet he threw the Election to O'Bastard in 2008.
He was hard core Conservative till the 2000 election. something happened right there and he turned 180 degrees. From then on he hated conservatism with a passion and fell in bed with the moderates.
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He was hard core Conservative till the 2000 election. something happened right there and he turned 180 degrees. From then on he hated conservatism with a passion and fell in bed with the moderates.
No, he was crooked since before he was Senator. Every "conservative" thing he ever did since entering politics (as Congressman for the district I moved into in Phoenix, BTW) has had some hidden leftist hook in it. He sacrificed fellow POWs that were still being held by Vietnam after the war in order to be a part of "normalizing" relations with that decrepit, God forsaken excuse of a country. That was before Bush deprived him of "his turn" to be Preezy of the United Steezy.
I'm not going into his military record, because I was never in the service and cannot relate to his experiences there, but he was a snake in the grass to the wife who stood by him for years. Shortly after he got off the plain from Hanoi he dumped her for the younger, much richer beer distributor heiress in Phoenix. His evil just grew from that point.
I'll give him this: I don't think he was responsible for the Forrestal disaster, even though he was an insanely reckless pilot who disobeyed orders to stay clear of a SAM site that shot him down.
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No, he was crooked since before he was Senator. Every "conservative" thing he ever did since entering politics (as Congressman for the district I moved into in Phoenix, BTW) has had some hidden leftist hook in it. He sacrificed fellow POWs that were still being held by Vietnam after the war in order to be a part of "normalizing" relations with that decrepit, God forsaken excuse of a country. That was before Bush deprived him of "his turn" to be Preezy of the United Steezy.
I'm not going into his military record, because I was never in the service and cannot relate to his experiences there, but he was a snake in the grass to the wife who stood by him for years. Shortly after he got off the plain from Hanoi he dumped her for the younger, much richer beer distributor heiress in Phoenix. His evil just grew from that point.
I'll give him this: I don't think he was responsible for the Forrestal disaster, even though he was an insanely reckless pilot who disobeyed orders to stay clear of a SAM site that shot him down.
Dunno all that... All I can see from way over here is when he came out of the closet in 2k.... I noticed that bigtime.
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Dunno all that... All I can see from way over here is when he came out of the closet in 2k.... I noticed that bigtime.
Yes, that is correct. Before then, people in the other 49 thought we were just being cranky about McStain.
To the Original Topic: Arizonans who thought McStain was the best thing since sliced beer and canned bread are thrilled to death to have a real live Astronaut (Swoon!) as a new Senator. This is the utter bullshit I've been dealing with for the past 40 years in AZ politics.
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Yes, that is correct. Before then, people in the other 49 thought we were just being cranky about McStain.
To the Original Topic: Arizonans who thought McStain was the best thing since sliced beer and canned bread are thrilled to death to have a real live Astronaut (Swoon!) as a new Senator. This is the utter bullshit I've been dealing with for the past 40 years in AZ politics.
Whee! :whistle: :shrug: *****rollingeyes*****
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Whee! :whistle: :shrug: *****rollingeyes*****
888high58888
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Arizona poll shows Kelly overtaking McSally
By Reid Wilson - 08/20/19 06:01 AM EDT
Sen. Martha McSally (R-Ariz.) trails her Democratic opponent for the first time, according to a new survey, as President Trump's approval rating falls in the key swing state.
Retired astronaut Mark Kelly leads McSally, the retired fighter pilot-turned-politician, by a 46 percent to 41 percent margin, according to the poll conducted by OH Predictive Insights, a Phoenix-based pollster, and released first to The Hill.
The survey represents the first time this year that OH Predictive Insights has shown Kelly leading McSally. In February, the firm showed McSally leading by 2 percentage points. In May, McSally led by a single point.
@mystery-ak
Not to worry. Soon our masters in the Dim Party will decide to save America all the expense and heartbreak of elections,and just start appointing our "leaders".
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Having your wife take one to the head doesn't hurt your cause either and he has played that to the max.
As for McCain.....I could never stand the guy.
When they nominated him in 2008, I cried.
@HikerGuy83
That's odd. I always wanted to make HIM cry,but never had the chance.
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Kelly has said he met his current wife, former congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, at a leadership seminar in China in 2003.
@mountaineer
He and his wife met at a communist indoctrination and training camp in China.
How "fitting"!
Does anyone have a list of fellow attendees/traitors?
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Leftists in AZ didn't give a crap that McStain dumped the wife who stood by him while he was a POW in order to marry the Beer Baroness, so why would they care about the loony astronaut's predilections?
@Cyber Liberty
I honestly don't think it makes a damn bit of difference who the voters vote for in Arizona,the winner is always from a list of the "chosen few" the people who run the state want elected.
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@HikerGuy83
That's odd. I always wanted to make HIM cry,but never had the chance.
I tend to tear up when I take a shot to the groin.
McCain was not my idea of a good president or candidate.
While I liked Palin...she wasn't ready for prime time.
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I tend to tear up when I take a shot to the groin.
McCain was not my idea of a good president or candidate.
While I liked Palin...she wasn't ready for prime time.
Sarah Palin's blind devotion to McStain did her in, long term. She reminds me of an abused wife, the way she stayed loyal to him after he trashed her in that campaign was appalling. In the years after that, she did things like bitterly criticizing the AZ Republican Party for censuring McStain at a meeting of State Committeemen.
I liked her at first, tolerated her after 2008, and rejected her completely because of her bitching at the GOP of a State to which she had no connection. Too bad because she was a hottie.
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...
I'll give him this: I don't think he was responsible for the Forrestal disaster, even though he was an insanely reckless pilot who disobeyed orders to stay clear of a SAM site that shot him down.
I've been around that barn a couple of times on my previous discussion site home. Simply looking at the "map" showing where planes for the strike were positioned, where the F-4 was from which the rocket errantly launched, where McCain's plane was located, and which way planes' engine exhausts were pointed should suffice to show that neither McCain's plane nor any of the other A-4s around him could have ignited the jet fuel spilling from the A-4 the rocket had hit.
I thoroughly understand the dislike and disgust for McCain, and share much of it, but no combination of hatred and and disgust can make that physical impossibility possible. OTOH, the Armchair Admiral (or whatever the guy's actual rank) who overruled the Forrestal's captain and ordered the air group to use bombs that were known to be dangerously defective (due to age, improper storage, and consequent deterioration) ... 8888madkitty :MiniGun: 8888madkitty
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Dunno all that... All I can see from way over here is when he came out of the closet in 2k.... I noticed that bigtime.
@roamer_1, I was vaguely of McCain during the Reagan years, but he didn't get onto my radar screen until the 2000 R primary when he lashed out at groups who urged voting for someone else, and then his revenge against them, McCain-Feingold. Then there was his bitter-spite-driven helping bleep over GWB judicial appointees ... come 2008 I voted against Obama by voting "for" the only possibly viable alternative to him and his horrific policies (in the event, I under estimated how awful Obama would be). I "get" that many disagree with that kind of thinking, and the "lesser of two evils" is still evil. OTOH, that "lesser" will leave behind less "evil" to be undone, as is the case of Obama's @#$%.
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@roamer_1, I was vaguely of McCain during the Reagan years, but he didn't get onto my radar screen until the 2000 R primary when he lashed out at groups who urged voting for someone else, and then his revenge against them, McCain-Feingold. Then there was his bitter-spite-driven helping bleep over GWB judicial appointees ... come 2008 I voted against Obama by voting "for" the only possibly viable alternative to him and his horrific policies (in the event, I under estimated how awful Obama would be). I "get" that many disagree with that kind of thinking, and the "lesser of two evils" is still evil. OTOH, that "lesser" will leave behind less "evil" to be undone, as is the case of Obama's @#$%.
There ain't a worse betrayer to everything conservative than John Friggin McAin't. There ain't no way no how I would have ever voted for that particular sombich, regardless of cost... Followed closely by Romney, btw. There is a reason I haven't voted for a Republican since 07.
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Sarah Palin's blind devotion to McStain did her in, long term. She reminds me of an abused wife, the way she stayed loyal to him after he trashed her in that campaign was appalling. In the years after that, she did things like bitterly criticizing the AZ Republican Party for censuring McStain at a meeting of State Committeemen.
I liked her at first, tolerated her after 2008, and rejected her completely because of her bitching at the GOP of a State to which she had no connection. Too bad because she was a hottie.
Never understood the Palin crap from the get-go. Taxing profit? Retroactively? Who the hell thought that was conservative? Everywhere she went, from Wasillla on up, somebody wound up paying more.
I think it was more about her personality, and independence tied to family which is a pretty common thing up here in the Rockies. I can't hardly swing a dead cat up in here without slapping something just like that in the face... So maybe I was immune.
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I had a leg up on all y'all when it comes to having known about McStain since the 80's. He was my Representative before he became my Senator. I've watched him from the very beginning because he was "local."
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Never understood the Palin crap from the get-go. Taxing profit? Retroactively? Who the hell thought that was conservative? Everywhere she went, from Wasillla on up, somebody wound up paying more.
I think it was more about her personality, and independence tied to family which is a pretty common thing up here in the Rockies. I can't hardly swing a dead cat up in here without slapping something just like that in the face... So maybe I was immune.
I thought her boob job looked really good. I think she had the "hottie" factor working for her. :whistle:
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I thought her boob job looked really good. I think she had the "hottie" factor working for her. :whistle:
That's a great reason for endorsement. *****rollingeyes*****
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I thought her boob job looked really good. I think she had the "hottie" factor working for her. :whistle:
That covers it.
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John Sidney McCain III is a traitor.
John Sidney McCain III is the treasonous United States Senator from Arizona. He was the Republican presidential nominee in the 2008 United States presidential election.
THE EARLY YEARS
John McCain spent his boyhood in exclusive boarding schools where staffers were paid to put up with his tirades. We all did some immature things before we matured. But with John McCain, the tirades continue today.
If John McCain had not been the son and grandson of admirals, there is scant chance he would have been admitted to the U.S. Naval Academy. Given his behavior patterns and academics, had he not been the son and grandson of admirals, there is little doubt he would have been thrown out. Instead, in 1958 he managed to graduate 894 out of 899.
Had he not been the son and grandson of admirals, there is no chance he would have been accepted into the prestigious naval flight training program over far better qualified officers. On his way to becoming a North Vietnamese ace, the aviator lost 3 expensive aircraft on routine, non-combat flights. Little was made of all that, because he was, you know, the son and grandson of admirals.
John McCain’s most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal. Well, not horrendous for him. The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was “wet-started,†an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies.
Investigators and survivors took the position that John McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men. Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the son and grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany.
As a rising naval officer, John McCain was surrounded by rumors of numerous adulterous affairs, such as used to be called “conduct unbecoming an officer.†Author and biographer Robert Timberg has detailed several of McCain’s sexual relationships with subordinates when serving as a Squadron Leader and an Executive Officer. I think we all know such behavior is a clear violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, in other words, a crime.
When John McCain’s application to the National War College was rejected, according to noted author and researcher Joel Skousen, he whined to daddy who pulled strings with the Secretary of the Navy.
PRISONER OR HONORED GUEST?
John McCain’s 5½-year stay at the Hanoi Hilton (officially Hoa Loa Prison) has ever since been the subject of great controversy. He maintains that he was tortured and otherwise badly mistreated. One of many who disagree is Dennis Johnson, imprisoned at Hanoi and never given treatment for his broken leg.
He reports that every time he saw McCain, who was generally kept segregated, the man was clean-shaven, dressed in fresh clothes, and appeared comfortable among North Vietnamese Army officers. He adds that he frequently heard McCain’s collaborative statements broadcast over the prison’s loud speakers.
On October 26, 1967, John McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk was shot down over Hanoi. The fractures of 1 leg and both arms were reportedly due to his failure to tuck them in during ejection. According to U.S. News & World Report (May 14, 1973), John McCain didn’t wait long before offering military information in return for medical care. While an extraordinary patient at Gi Lam Hospital, he was visited by a number of dignitaries, including, to quote John McCain himself, General Vo Nguyen Giap, the national hero of Dienbienphu.
Jack McLamb is a highly respected name in law enforcement circles. After 9 years of clandestine operations in Cambodia and unmentionable areas, he returned home to Phoenix where he became one of the most decorated police officers on record. Twice McLamb was named Officer of the Year. He went on to become an FBI hostage negotiator. This man has stated that every one of the many former POWs he has talked with consider McCain a traitor.
States McLamb, “He was never tortured…The Vietnamese Communists called him the Songbird, that’s his code name, Songbird McCain, because he just came into the camp singing and telling them everything they wanted to know.†McLamb further quotes former POWs as saying John McCain starred in 32 propaganda videos in which he denounced his country and comrades.
The Glavnoje Razvedyvatel’noje Upravlenije is the Soviet’s military intelligence division. Numerous sources confirm that during the Nam Era, the English-speaking Vietnamese who conducted interrogations of American prisoners were always overseen by Russian GRU officers. The ranking GRU officer at the Hanoi Hilton had a multilingual teenage son who was tasked with translating all interrogation reports into Russian. He would become known only as T. According to T who interpreted all interrogations and notes pertaining to John McCain during the latter’s stay from December, 1969, to March 1973, when a well-fed looking McCain’s was released, privileges were extended. These included time at a furnished apartment in Hanoi – furnished with 2 prostitutes. John McCain would attribute such absences to solitary confinement.
It has been widely reported that following his father’s appointment as CINCPAC Commander-in-Chief of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater of operations, John McCain was offered an immediate parole. John McCain insists that he refused such a preference. Others insist that his father refused to allow such a preference. In any event, such an offer would have required the approval of the Soviet masters, and T would have seen documentation. He has no recollection of such an offer.
In 1991 the Soviet Union was in a state of collapse. People and things were up for grabs. During that thaw, a mass document swap took place between the KGB and CIA. All T’s translations were included. If these dots are really connected, it is small wonder that John McCain had fought consistently to keep all files sealed, block any attempts to retrieve POWs, and establish the friendliest of relations with his former tormentors.
It is public record that Admiral McCain was on hand to greet his son upon return. According to Major Mark A. Smith (USA Retired), a Green Beret and former POW, a trusted friend of his accompanied the Admiral that day. Later, when the friend referred to that meeting, John McCain became enraged, volunteered that he had received “no special treatment,†and then denied that his father was there.
In 1989 legislation known as The Truth Bill was introduced in the U.S. House. It required the Department of Defense to publish the names and information on all unaccounted for POWs, MIAs, and KIAs in WW II, the Korean War, and Vietnam.
It languished and was resurrected 2 years later. Then came the John McCain Bill, promptly enacted, that blocked such information. The DoD does not even have to acknowledge confirmed sightings of live Americans.
TEMPER AND TEMPERAMENT
The senator’s temper and temperament remain in question. His biographer quotes him: “At the smallest provocation I would go off into a mad frenzy, and then suddenly crash to the floor unconscious.†Has he moderated over time? Apparently. Somewhat. Senators who have had John McCain scream hyphenated obscenities at them nose-to-nose include Rick Santorum, Richard Shelby, Thad Cochran, and James Inhofe. Most colleagues decline comment. The man has been called psychologically unstable.
BIRDS OF A FEATHER?
Eleven years ago John McCain loudly defended the glorious hero of the Vietnam War, John Kerry. That would be the young naval officer who hid out in an office until he took command of a river patrol boat for a few weeks. He put in for a purple heart every time he got a scratch or bruise. With 3 of those, he rotated out with the intention of running for public office as a war hero.
When Kerry saw the level of anti-war sentiment, he quickly morphed into an anti-war hero running for public office and later married the widow of an extremely wealthy, conservative senator who died under highly suspicious circumstances.
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have not died. Their affiliate is Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain, headed by former Sergeant Ted Sampley, who also serves as vice-president of the half-million member Rolling Thunder Motorcycle Rally.
Sampley has spent years working toward the return of Vietnam era MIAs and POWs abandoned by our government (which is invariably the case at a war’s end). McCain has thwarted him at every turn, dismissing 1,600 credible first hand sightings, 14,000 second hand sightings, and countless radio intercepts that supported the observations.
In 1991 a Senate Select Committee held hearings on the subject of Vietnam POWs. Tracy Usry, honored Vietnam veteran and former chief investigator for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, testified that American POWs were routinely interrogated by Soviet intelligence officers. Several times, an enraged John McCain interrupted, shouting that, “…none of the returned U.S. POWs released by Vietnam was ever interrogated by the Soviets.†He knew better. So apparently did Bui Tin, former Senior Colonel, NVA, who testified that he had been privy to all Soviet documents pertaining to American prisoners. He supported Usry, refuted McCain, and offered his personal records as added proof.
In short order, Usry and all participating staff members were fired. Jack Wheeler, Republicon insider and master strategist attributed that to McCain’s behind-the-scenes pressuring.
Add to that McCain’s despicable treatment of families of POWs. Is that based on guilt or is the man simply despicable?
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That's a great reason for endorsement. *****rollingeyes*****
I figured at the time that since BJ Clinton got the "wet panty vote," it was OK for me to use her looks as a reason to vote for her... 888mouth
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I figured at the time that since BJ Clinton got the "wet panty vote," it was OK for me to use her looks as a reason to vote for her... 888mouth
(https://i2.wp.com/dbdailyupdate.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/bill-clinton-in-blue-dress.jpg?fit=650%2C642&ssl=1)
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(https://i2.wp.com/dbdailyupdate.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/bill-clinton-in-blue-dress.jpg?fit=650%2C642&ssl=1)
That picture makes me :mauslaff:
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That picture makes me :mauslaff:
Not me. That picture makes me want to puke and reminds me of what he's gotten away with, especially on Epstein island.
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John Sidney McCain III is a traitor.
John Sidney McCain III is the treasonous United States Senator from Arizona. He was the Republican presidential nominee in the 2008 United States presidential election.
THE EARLY YEARS
John McCain spent his boyhood in exclusive boarding schools where staffers were paid to put up with his tirades. We all did some immature things before we matured. But with John McCain, the tirades continue today.
If John McCain had not been the son and grandson of admirals, there is scant chance he would have been admitted to the U.S. Naval Academy. Given his behavior patterns and academics, had he not been the son and grandson of admirals, there is little doubt he would have been thrown out. Instead, in 1958 he managed to graduate 894 out of 899.
Had he not been the son and grandson of admirals, there is no chance he would have been accepted into the prestigious naval flight training program over far better qualified officers. On his way to becoming a North Vietnamese ace, the aviator lost 3 expensive aircraft on routine, non-combat flights. Little was made of all that, because he was, you know, the son and grandson of admirals.
John McCain’s most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal. Well, not horrendous for him. The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was “wet-started,†an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies.
Investigators and survivors took the position that John McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men. Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the son and grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany.
As a rising naval officer, John McCain was surrounded by rumors of numerous adulterous affairs, such as used to be called “conduct unbecoming an officer.†Author and biographer Robert Timberg has detailed several of McCain’s sexual relationships with subordinates when serving as a Squadron Leader and an Executive Officer. I think we all know such behavior is a clear violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, in other words, a crime.
When John McCain’s application to the National War College was rejected, according to noted author and researcher Joel Skousen, he whined to daddy who pulled strings with the Secretary of the Navy.
PRISONER OR HONORED GUEST?
John McCain’s 5½-year stay at the Hanoi Hilton (officially Hoa Loa Prison) has ever since been the subject of great controversy. He maintains that he was tortured and otherwise badly mistreated. One of many who disagree is Dennis Johnson, imprisoned at Hanoi and never given treatment for his broken leg.
He reports that every time he saw McCain, who was generally kept segregated, the man was clean-shaven, dressed in fresh clothes, and appeared comfortable among North Vietnamese Army officers. He adds that he frequently heard McCain’s collaborative statements broadcast over the prison’s loud speakers.
On October 26, 1967, John McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk was shot down over Hanoi. The fractures of 1 leg and both arms were reportedly due to his failure to tuck them in during ejection. According to U.S. News & World Report (May 14, 1973), John McCain didn’t wait long before offering military information in return for medical care. While an extraordinary patient at Gi Lam Hospital, he was visited by a number of dignitaries, including, to quote John McCain himself, General Vo Nguyen Giap, the national hero of Dienbienphu.
Jack McLamb is a highly respected name in law enforcement circles. After 9 years of clandestine operations in Cambodia and unmentionable areas, he returned home to Phoenix where he became one of the most decorated police officers on record. Twice McLamb was named Officer of the Year. He went on to become an FBI hostage negotiator. This man has stated that every one of the many former POWs he has talked with consider McCain a traitor.
States McLamb, “He was never tortured…The Vietnamese Communists called him the Songbird, that’s his code name, Songbird McCain, because he just came into the camp singing and telling them everything they wanted to know.†McLamb further quotes former POWs as saying John McCain starred in 32 propaganda videos in which he denounced his country and comrades.
The Glavnoje Razvedyvatel’noje Upravlenije is the Soviet’s military intelligence division. Numerous sources confirm that during the Nam Era, the English-speaking Vietnamese who conducted interrogations of American prisoners were always overseen by Russian GRU officers. The ranking GRU officer at the Hanoi Hilton had a multilingual teenage son who was tasked with translating all interrogation reports into Russian. He would become known only as T. According to T who interpreted all interrogations and notes pertaining to John McCain during the latter’s stay from December, 1969, to March 1973, when a well-fed looking McCain’s was released, privileges were extended. These included time at a furnished apartment in Hanoi – furnished with 2 prostitutes. John McCain would attribute such absences to solitary confinement.
It has been widely reported that following his father’s appointment as CINCPAC Commander-in-Chief of all U.S. forces in the Vietnam theater of operations, John McCain was offered an immediate parole. John McCain insists that he refused such a preference. Others insist that his father refused to allow such a preference. In any event, such an offer would have required the approval of the Soviet masters, and T would have seen documentation. He has no recollection of such an offer.
In 1991 the Soviet Union was in a state of collapse. People and things were up for grabs. During that thaw, a mass document swap took place between the KGB and CIA. All T’s translations were included. If these dots are really connected, it is small wonder that John McCain had fought consistently to keep all files sealed, block any attempts to retrieve POWs, and establish the friendliest of relations with his former tormentors.
It is public record that Admiral McCain was on hand to greet his son upon return. According to Major Mark A. Smith (USA Retired), a Green Beret and former POW, a trusted friend of his accompanied the Admiral that day. Later, when the friend referred to that meeting, John McCain became enraged, volunteered that he had received “no special treatment,†and then denied that his father was there.
In 1989 legislation known as The Truth Bill was introduced in the U.S. House. It required the Department of Defense to publish the names and information on all unaccounted for POWs, MIAs, and KIAs in WW II, the Korean War, and Vietnam.
It languished and was resurrected 2 years later. Then came the John McCain Bill, promptly enacted, that blocked such information. The DoD does not even have to acknowledge confirmed sightings of live Americans.
TEMPER AND TEMPERAMENT
The senator’s temper and temperament remain in question. His biographer quotes him: “At the smallest provocation I would go off into a mad frenzy, and then suddenly crash to the floor unconscious.†Has he moderated over time? Apparently. Somewhat. Senators who have had John McCain scream hyphenated obscenities at them nose-to-nose include Rick Santorum, Richard Shelby, Thad Cochran, and James Inhofe. Most colleagues decline comment. The man has been called psychologically unstable.
BIRDS OF A FEATHER?
Eleven years ago John McCain loudly defended the glorious hero of the Vietnam War, John Kerry. That would be the young naval officer who hid out in an office until he took command of a river patrol boat for a few weeks. He put in for a purple heart every time he got a scratch or bruise. With 3 of those, he rotated out with the intention of running for public office as a war hero.
When Kerry saw the level of anti-war sentiment, he quickly morphed into an anti-war hero running for public office and later married the widow of an extremely wealthy, conservative senator who died under highly suspicious circumstances.
Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have not died. Their affiliate is Vietnam Veterans Against John McCain, headed by former Sergeant Ted Sampley, who also serves as vice-president of the half-million member Rolling Thunder Motorcycle Rally.
Sampley has spent years working toward the return of Vietnam era MIAs and POWs abandoned by our government (which is invariably the case at a war’s end). McCain has thwarted him at every turn, dismissing 1,600 credible first hand sightings, 14,000 second hand sightings, and countless radio intercepts that supported the observations.
In 1991 a Senate Select Committee held hearings on the subject of Vietnam POWs. Tracy Usry, honored Vietnam veteran and former chief investigator for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, testified that American POWs were routinely interrogated by Soviet intelligence officers. Several times, an enraged John McCain interrupted, shouting that, “…none of the returned U.S. POWs released by Vietnam was ever interrogated by the Soviets.†He knew better. So apparently did Bui Tin, former Senior Colonel, NVA, who testified that he had been privy to all Soviet documents pertaining to American prisoners. He supported Usry, refuted McCain, and offered his personal records as added proof.
In short order, Usry and all participating staff members were fired. Jack Wheeler, Republicon insider and master strategist attributed that to McCain’s behind-the-scenes pressuring.
Add to that McCain’s despicable treatment of families of POWs. Is that based on guilt or is the man simply despicable?
Excellent post!! TRUTH
Just an idea -- Maybe TBR needs to start a thread entitled "Traitors" of the U.S. --- this could be the first name on the topic.
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Excellent post!! TRUTH
Just an idea -- Maybe TBR needs to start a thread entitled "Traitors" of the U.S. --- this could be the first name on the topic.
Go ahead and do it, maybe in "Scandals?" Wherever you put it, ping me and I'll sticky it.
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[...
John McCain’s most horrendous loss occurred in 1967 on the USS Forrestal. Well, not horrendous for him. The starter motor switch on the A4E Skyhawk allowed fuel to pool in the engine. When the aircraft was “wet-started,†an impressive flame would shoot from the tail. It was one of the ways young hot-shots got their jollies.
Investigators and survivors took the position that John McCain deliberately wet-started to harass the F4 pilot directly behind him. The cook off launched an M34 Zuni rocket that tore through the Skyhawk’s fuel tank, released a thousand pound bomb, and ignited a fire that killed the pilot plus 167 men. Before the tally of dead and dying was complete, the son and grandson of admirals had been transferred to the USS Oriskany.
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Here is a map showing how the aircraft were positioned that morning before the planned strike:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/CVA-59_fire_aft_deck_plan.png/220px-CVA-59_fire_aft_deck_plan.png)
There were no F-4s behind any of the A-4s. The circled F-4 is the one from which the Zuni racket accidentally fired (a known electrical defect with the Zuni). One of the two circled A-4s is the one McCain was piloting. The A-4s engines exhausted over the side of the carrier, not toward the center of the aft flight deck or toward any plane. IOW, however McCain started his engine, his exhaust could not have caused the Zuni to fire, nor could his exhaust have started the fuel fire (another variant of this CT). When the Zuni struck one of the two A-4s, it knocked off a bomb and all or part of the Zuni flew into the ocean. The Zuni's exhaust did blast toward the center of the aft flight deck and that is what ignited the spilled jet fuel.
I have zero love for John McCain III, but this stupidly false CT about the Forrestal fire serves no useful purpose.
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Here is a map showing how the aircraft were positioned that morning before the planned strike:
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/CVA-59_fire_aft_deck_plan.png/220px-CVA-59_fire_aft_deck_plan.png)
There were no F-4s behind any of the A-4s. The circled F-4 is the one from which the Zuni racket accidentally fired (a known electrical defect with the Zuni). One of the two circled A-4s is the one McCain was piloting. The A-4s engines exhausted over the side of the carrier, not toward the center of the aft flight deck or toward any plane. IOW, however McCain started his engine, his exhaust could not have caused the Zuni to fire, nor could his exhaust have started the fuel fire (another variant of this CT). When the Zuni struck one of the two A-4s, it knocked off a bomb and all or part of the Zuni flew into the ocean. The Zuni's exhaust did blast toward the center of the aft flight deck and that is what ignited the spilled jet fuel.
I have zero love for John McCain III, but this stupidly false CT about the Forrestal fire serves no useful purpose.
Where and when did the controversy begin?
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Where and hen di the controversy begin?
It got going because the anecdote about the Forrestal disaster fits very well into things we already knew about McStain's ugly "character."
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Where and when did the controversy begin?
It got going because the anecdote about the Forrestal disaster fits very well into things we already knew about McStain's ugly "character."
I really do not know when this McCain Started the Forrestal Fire and Admiral Daddy Covered It Up CT started, but I first saw one of the variants back in the mid-00s. I don't know whether the dude(tte) who started it believed it or thought it would be cool to troll conservatives with it but like Cyber said, the appeal is that it fits so well the kind of thing many want to believe concerning John McCain III.
FWIW, John McCain Sr. was an Admiral and was a carrier operations guru who died very shortly after WW2 ended in the PTO. His son, John McCain Jr., was also an Admiral, having served well in submarines in WW2 and for much of the latter 1940s and into the 1950s.
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I really do not know when this McCain Started the Forrestal Fire and Admiral Daddy Covered It Up CT started, but I first saw one of the variants back in the mid-00s. I don't know whether the dude(tte) who started it believed it or thought it would be cool to troll conservatives with it but like Cyber said, the appeal is that it fits so well the kind of thing many want to believe concerning John McCain III.
FWIW, John McCain Sr. was an Admiral and was a carrier operations guru who died very shortly after WW2 ended in the PTO. His son, John McCain Jr., was also an Admiral, having served well in submarines in WW2 and for much of the latter 1940s and into the 1950s.
The Navel Vessel is named after McCain the eldest.
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FWIW, John McCain Sr. was an Admiral and was a carrier operations guru who died very shortly after WW2 ended in the PTO. His son, John McCain Jr., was also an Admiral, having served well in submarines in WW2 and for much of the latter 1940s and into the 1950s.
:yowsa: It's a crying damned shame what John Sidney McCainIII has done to the family name!
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McCain isn't the issue on this thread, much as we disliked him. Now we're stuck with the gun-grabbing idiot Kelly as U.S. Senator.
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McCain isn't the issue on this thread, much as we disliked him. Now we're stuck with the gun-grabbing idiot Kelly as U.S. Senator.
Is it OK if I say McStain was the cause of the poor environment for Republicans get elected? See, I think I'm the one who started it.
I do agree, so let's drop it....
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The Navel Vessel is named after McCain the eldest.
It was originally named for Sr. and Jr.. In 2018 the ship was re-dedicated and III was added as a namesake.
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It was originally named for Sr. and Jr.. In 2018 the ship was re-dedicated and III was added as a namesake.
That was right after the three-sticks assumed room temperature, IIRC. The whole family was a real piece of work, with the widow and daughter endorsing Badfinger Biteme over the man who gave Pappy a State Funeral.
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McCain isn't the issue on this thread, much as we disliked him. Now we're stuck with the gun-grabbing idiot Kelly as U.S. Senator.
You ever seen the movie Shooter with Mark Wahlberg?
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You're right, @Cyber Liberty and you certainly know better than most of us how McCain crapped on the AZ GOP and politics in general in your state.
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John Sidney McCain III is a traitor.
John Sidney McCain III is the treasonous United States Senator from Arizona. He was the Republican presidential nominee in the 2008 United States presidential election.
@Bigun....can you supply a link. I have not been able to locate this.
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@Bigun....can you supply a link. I have not been able to locate this.
Nope! That file resides on my personal computer and what you have seen is only a part of it.
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@Bigun....can you supply a link. I have not been able to locate this.
I don't have the links, it's been a long time. But I can describe an example. The US was negotiating with Vietnam to normalize diplomatic relations. Since somebody thought it would be brilliant to send McStaing, the POW from the Hanoi Hilton to take the lead as a powerful Senator. When I looked today, I found the stories of abandoning the POWs buried under all the hagiographies about McCain came out when he kicked the bucket. There's an example of history cleansing right there.
He turned his back on un-repatriated American POWs that were still there, despite the transparently false protests they didn't exist. They were the inspiration for all those black flags you see from time to time, with "You Are Not Forgotten" written on them. McCain decided, on his own I understand, to accept the lies from Vietnam and he abandoned them. That was fine with the people running the government in 1995, so there they rot. Gee, I wonder who that was?
Traitor, with other examples.
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@Bigun....can you supply a link. I have not been able to locate this.
@HikerGuy83, the Forrestal fire claim is false. Multiple variants of it have been around the Internet for a couple of decades. The particular variant @Bigun posted is based on a false claim about how the planes were arranged on the aft of the flight deck just prior to the fire. The map showing how the planes were staged for the strike that I posted in that same thread shows that McCain could not have triggered the Zuni rocket by starting his engine. Whoever wrote that variant of the Forrestal fire claim didn't know that in the mid-late 60s USN CVs no longer lined up planes for a strike the way it was done in WW2 on the much smaller Yorktown and Essex class CVs (IOW, whoever wrote that variant of the claim was unfamiliar with carrier operations).
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@HikerGuy83, the Forrestal fire claim is false. Multiple variants of it have been around the Internet for a couple of decades. The particular variant @Bigun posted is based on a false claim about how the planes were arranged on the aft of the flight deck just prior to the fire. The map showing how the planes were staged for the strike that I posted in that same thread shows that McCain could not have triggered the Zuni rocket by starting his engine. Whoever wrote that variant of the Forrestal fire claim didn't know that in the mid-late 60s USN CVs no longer lined up planes for a strike the way it was done in WW2 on the much smaller Yorktown and Essex class CVs (IOW, whoever wrote that variant of the claim was unfamiliar with carrier operations).
You are entitled to buy into the revisionist history you are trying to sell if you like @PeteS in CA. The account included in my post is from someone who was there and fought the damned fire!
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You are entitled to buy into the revisionist history you are trying to sell if you like @PeteS in CA. The account included in my post is from someone who was there and fought the damned fire!
Stop with the silly buzzwords, @Bigun. It is not "revisionist history" that McCain's jet exhaust was pointed out to sea. And since McCain's jet exhaust was pointed away from and his A-4 was across the deck from all the F-4s it was simply impossible for McCain starting his engine to have triggered the Zuni.
Whoever really wrote that stupidly false account is so ignorant of modern carrier operations that his claimed scenario was based on how planes were spotted for strikes on WW2 Yorktown and Essex class carriers rather than modern practice. His scenario is also absurd even by normal WW2 practice. In spotting a strike, heavily loaded torpedo and dive bombers would be spotted behind fighters, because they needed more flight deck length to reach take-off speed.
So not only was the writer of that piece ignorant of how a strike would be spotted in the 1960s - lined along the edge of the flight deck aft - he also is ignorant of the order in which a WW2 strike would be spotted (bombers behind fighters).
The simple bottom line is that because McCain's exhaust was pointed out to sea away from all other strike aircraft, starting his engine could not have affected the Zuni rocket dozens of feet across the deck from McCain. You can throw around BS-buzzwords and condescend all you like, Bigun, but you can't cause jet exhaust to do a 180-degree change of direction.
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Stop with the silly buzzwords, @Bigun. It is not "revisionist history" that McCain's jet exhaust was pointed out to sea. And since McCain's jet exhaust was pointed away from and his A-4 was across the deck from all the F-4s it was simply impossible for McCain starting his engine to have triggered the Zuni.
Whoever really wrote that stupidly false account is so ignorant of modern carrier operations that his claimed scenario was based on how planes were spotted for strikes on WW2 Yorktown and Essex class carriers rather than modern practice. His scenario is also absurd even by normal WW2 practice. In spotting a strike, heavily loaded torpedo and dive bombers would be spotted behind fighters, because they needed more flight deck length to reach take-off speed.
So not only was the writer of that piece ignorant of how a strike would be spotted in the 1960s - lined along the edge of the flight deck aft - he also is ignorant of the order in which a WW2 strike would be spotted (bombers behind fighters).
The simple bottom line is that because McCain's exhaust was pointed out to sea away from all other strike aircraft, starting his engine could not have affected the Zuni rocket dozens of feet across the deck from McCain. You can throw around BS-buzzwords and condescend all you like, Bigun, but you can't cause jet exhaust to do a 180-degree change of direction.
Were you there when the incident occurred @PeteS in CA? I was not but the guy who originally wrote the account in what I posted definitely was and I tend to give great weight to firsthand knowledge.
I'm done with it. Nothing more to say on the subject.
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Were you there when the incident occurred @PeteS in CA? I was not but the guy who originally wrote the account in what I posted definitely was and I tend to give great weight to firsthand knowledge.
I'm done with it. Nothing more to say on the subject.
You already posted that you don't know where you got that article, so how do you know its writer was there? He claims to have been and you want to believe him? His ignorance of carrier operations proves he lied about being there.
Was I aboard the USS Forrestal? No. The people who contributed to the Navy investigation were:
https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%201.pdf (https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%201.pdf)
https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%202.pdf (https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%202.pdf)
https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%203.pdf (https://www.jag.navy.mil/library/investigations/USS%20FORRESTAL%20FIRE%2012%20AUG%2069%20PT%203.pdf)
The aircraft spotting diagram, also from people who were there, can be found by opening the pdf captioned "Article from Naval Aviation News, October 1967, compiled and edited by Senior Chief Journalist John D. Burlage" linked about 2/3 of the way down this webpage, https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/disasters-and-phenomena/forrestal-fire.html (https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/disasters-and-phenomena/forrestal-fire.html) .
There was no physical way for McCain's engine start to have caused the Zuni rocket to launch. McCain's plane was many yards away, and his exhaust was pointed out to sea, not toward any plane.
These simple facts also disprove another variant of this McCain Caused the Forrestal Fire conspiracy theory that claims McCain's engine start ignited the spilled fuel.
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Nope! That file resides on my personal computer and what you have seen is only a part of it.
Thanks for letting me know.
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You are entitled to buy into the revisionist history you are trying to sell if you like @PeteS in CA. The account included in my post is from someone who was there and fought the damned fire!
I have no interest in sorting out that incident.
His post contained a reference to McCain's temper that I wanted to utilize on another thread.
Sorry for the confusion.