The Briefing Room
General Category => World News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on March 26, 2015, 12:25:05 am
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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html?_r=0)
Germanwings Pilot Was Locked Out of Cockpit Before Crash in France
By NICOLA CLARK and DAN BILEFSKYMARCH 25, 2015
PARIS — As officials struggled Wednesday to explain why a jet with 150 people on board crashed in relatively clear skies, an investigator said evidence from a cockpit voice recorder indicated one pilot left the cockpit before the plane’s descent and was unable to get back in.
A senior military official involved in the investigation described “very smooth, very cool” conversation between the pilots during the early part of the flight from Barcelona to Düsseldorf. Then the audio indicated that one of the pilots left the cockpit and could not re-enter.
“The guy outside is knocking lightly on the door and there is no answer,” the investigator said. “And then he hits the door stronger and no answer. There is never an answer.”
He said, “You can hear he is trying to smash the door down.”
While the audio seemed to give some insight into the circumstances leading up to the Germanwings crash, it also left many questions unanswered.
"We don’t know yet the reason why one of the guys went out,” said the official, who requested anonymity because the investigation is continuing. "But what is sure is that at the very end of the flight, the other pilot is alone and does not open the door."
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We'll wait and see but that does not sound good at all!
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Religion of the pilot locked-in?
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Religion of the pilot locked-in?
More likely procedural failure. I believe that protocol mandates a locked flight deck, even if one member of the flight crew requests to go aft. What if the remaining pilot lost consciousness, leaving the co-pilot with no means of re-entry, even in an emergency? Horrible result, irrespective of the reason.
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More likely procedural failure. I believe that protocol mandates a locked flight deck, even if one member of the flight crew requests to go aft. What if the remaining pilot lost consciousness, leaving the co-pilot with no means of re-entry, even in an emergency? Horrible result, irrespective of the reason.
What if both left the cockpit for some reason, breaking procedure and the door closed behind them?
However, I did hear from a flight attendant that there is a way on all planes for them to open the door that is very secret.
Still, I don't want to be 'that guy' but I'm waiting to hear the co-pilot's name. Not that it actually means anything but still..
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Former NTSB expert just on Megan's show saying it is most likely mass murder/suicide by pilot....every points to it
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Former NTSB expert just on Megan's show saying it is most likely mass murder/suicide by pilot....every points to it
Check the religion of the locked-in pilot...
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Todd Starnes
1 hr ·
The New York Times reports one of the pilots on that doomed German jetliner -- was locked out of the cockpit. The cockpit voice recorder picked up sounds of pilot banging on the door. Meanwhile, the airline has yet to release the identities of the pilots.
Well, now...
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Todd Starnes
1 hr ·
The New York Times reports one of the pilots on that doomed German jetliner -- was locked out of the cockpit. The cockpit voice recorder picked up sounds of pilot banging on the door. Meanwhile, the airline has yet to release the identities of the pilots.
Well, now...
Yeah, there's a reason they don't want to reveal the identities of the pilots.
Allah is pleased with the sacrifice that was offered to him... /s
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Hmm, I believe I speculated on that very thing on the original thread
(http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,166169.0.html).
Just appeared on Yahoo News:Breaking News: Co-pilot of Germanwings flight began descent ‘intentionally'
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:pondering:
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BBC News Conference going on now. All signs say it was deliberate. Co-Pilot's name was Andreas Lubitz, not on a terrorist watch list of any sort, religion unknown.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/26/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/index.html
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What if both left the cockpit for some reason, breaking procedure and the door closed behind them?
However, I did hear from a flight attendant that there is a way on all planes for them to open the door that is very secret.
Still, I don't want to be 'that guy' but I'm waiting to hear the co-pilot's name. Not that it actually means anything but still..
Members of the flight crew can open the door to the flight deck from the outside by means of a keypad code. However, this ability can be overriden manually by a crew member on the inside.
It is truly beginning to sound like a deliberate act.
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The only one on FB with this name who has recent posts on his timeline. Last post was around 6:30 AM his time the day of the crash. I'm not saying that is him, but if someone can translate German better than I, it may be worth browsing his posts.
https://www.facebook.com/andreas.lubitz.9
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(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/26/12/270353F100000578-3012053-First_picture_Germanwings_co_pilot_28_year_old_German_Andreas_G_-m-40_1427373291487.jpg)
First picture: Germanwings co-pilot - 28-year-old German Andreas Günter Lubitz (above) - locked his captain out of the cockpit before deliberately crashing into a mountain to 'destroy the plane', it has been revealed
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/26/10/2700F0B100000578-3012053-Access_to_the_cockpit_door_on_the_Germanwings_Airbus_A320_like_t-a-12_1427365382064.jpg)
Access to the cockpit door on the Germanwings Airbus A320 (like the one above) can be disabled from inside the flight deck, raising speculation that one of the pilots deliberately locked the other out
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html#ixzz3VUnmDAyZ
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BBC News Conference going on now. All signs say it was deliberate. Co-Pilot's name was Andreas Lubitz, not on a terrorist watch list of any sort, religion unknown.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/26/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/26/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/index.html)
Convert???
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The only one on FB with this name who has recent posts on his timeline. Last post was around 6:30 AM his time the day of the crash. I'm not saying that is him, but if someone can translate German better than I, it may be worth browsing his posts.
https://www.facebook.com/andreas.lubitz.9
Google translate does pretty well. I use it to communicate with some relatives in Germany.
They were amazed at how good my 'german' was... :silly:
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BBC News Conference going on now. All signs say it was deliberate. Co-Pilot's name was Andreas Lubitz, not on a terrorist watch list of any sort, religion unknown.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/26/europe/france-germanwings-plane-crash-main/index.html
Hopefully the Germans aren't stupid enough to let someone on a terrorist watch list co-pilot a plane.
The U.S., however...
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There's no damned reason whatsoever for either pilot OR co-pilot to leave the cockpit.
Treat them like astronauts. Gotta piss? Wear the proper flight-suit.
Once that plane moves, they are confined to the cabin. Period.
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Convert???
Could be, or maybe just your garden variety psycho.
Wasn't it a bit early in the flight for the pilot to leave the cockpit? I wonder why.
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Could be, or maybe just your garden variety psycho.
Wasn't it a bit early in the flight for the pilot to leave the cockpit? I wonder why.
Maybe there was a contrived disturbance out in the passenger area?
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Could be, or maybe just your garden variety psycho.
Wasn't it a bit early in the flight for the pilot to leave the cockpit? I wonder why.
That's true. He could have been nuts or depressed (did he lose a child or spouse). He could have been acting on another influence (political motivation other than religious?) He could have been under duress in some way (crash the plane or we kill your kid).
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Maybe there was a contrived disturbance out in the passenger area?
Does that model Airbus have a bathroom for the pilots?
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Google translate does pretty well. I use it to communicate with some relatives in Germany.
They were amazed at how good my 'german' was... :silly:
Mostly his page is a bunch of image memes (and I don't have time to go through each and type it out in translate) but many seem political or activist in nature, that's what I'm curious about.
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Mostly his page is a bunch of image memes (and I don't have time to go through each and type it out in translate) but many seem political or activist in nature, that's what I'm curious about.
Well I don't have time to do it for you either...
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Well I don't have time to do it for you either...
Well darn it, there needs to be a law demanding the government subsidize the time for this to take place. :)
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Convert???
Workplace violence.
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Just speculating, but here is an image of an Airbus 320 cockpit door. Notice the proximity to the bathroom. When the pilot left, maybe to go to the bathroom, could someone have slipped by him, maybe stepping out of the bathroom, and into the cockpit. IE a third party?
(http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/102/102942_800.jpg)
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Since nothing is outrageous anymore, could there be any linkage between this pilot and the MH370 pilot?
This will take some turns before we know what happened (if ever).
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I see a based-on-a-true-story novel ahead. Of course the movie version has Denzel battling the bad guy, wresting control of the plane and in the last second pulling out of a steep dive, saving everyone onboard except for the bloody, mangled, impaled terrorist in the copilot's seat next to him.
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I see a based-on-a-true-story novel ahead. Of course the movie version has Denzel battling the bad guy, wresting control of the plane and in the last second pulling out of a steep dive, saving everyone onboard except for the bloody, mangled, impaled terrorist in the copilot's seat next to him.
blij26
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Members of the flight crew can open the door to the flight deck from the outside by means of a keypad code. However, this ability can be overriden manually by a crew member on the inside.
It is truly beginning to sound like a deliberate act.
The doors have a manually operated lock, which is a foot activated bolt that goes into the floor. Anyone on the outside is not getting in, when that lock is down.
America has a 2-person in the cockpit rule at all times, Europe does not. That is a rule that they should be changing this very hour.
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/germanwings-crash-prompts-airlines-to-introduce-cockpit-rule-of-two (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/germanwings-crash-prompts-airlines-to-introduce-cockpit-rule-of-two)
Germanwings crash prompts airlines to introduce cockpit ‘rule of two’
Some airlines say they will change rules to ensure two crew are always in cockpit after Airbus A320 pilot is locked out before crash
(http://i.guim.co.uk/static/w-620/h--/q-95/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2015/3/26/1427396568114/68e4b294-618b-41d1-ba26-e3858c37e2aa-620x372.jpeg)
The interior of the cockpit of the crashed Germanwings A320 aircraft with the identification number D-AIPX at the airport in Dusseldorf, Germany before it crashed in France. Photograph: Marius Palmen/EPA
Holly Watt
Thursday 26 March 2015 14.49 EDT Last modified on Thursday 26 March 2015 15.44 EDT
Some airlines are to change their rules to ensure two crew members are in plane cockpits at all times, after a co-pilot appeared to deliberately crash a Germanwings plane into the French Alps this week, killing all 150 on board.
Questions have been raised about the lack of a “rule of two” among European carriers after Andreas Lubitz, 27, apparently crashed the Airbus A320 on Tuesday while the captain was locked out of the flight deck.
Two low-cost European carriers – easyJet and Norwegian Air Shuttle – said on Thursday that they would bring the new rule into effect almost immediately.
“EasyJet can confirm that, with effect from tomorrow … it will change its procedure,” the airline said in a statement, adding that the decision had been taken in consultation with the UK’s Civil Aviation Authority.
Norwegian’s flight operations director, Thomas Hesthammer, said: “We have been discussing this for a long time but this development has accelerated things. When one person leaves the cockpit, two people will now have to be there.”
Air Canada and the Canadian charter airline Air Transat also said they would require two people to be in the cockpit at all times.
The CAA said it had asked all UK carriers to review procedures. “Following the details that have emerged regarding the tragic Germanwings incident, we are coordinating closely with colleagues at the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) and have contacted all UK operators to require them to review all relevant procedures,” a spokesman said.
A “rule of two” is routine among US carriers.
The US Federal Aviation Authority said in a statement: “US airlines have to develop procedures that the FAA approves. Those procedures include a requirement that, when one of the pilots exits the cockpit for any reason, another qualified crew member must lock the door and remain on the flight deck until the pilot returns to his or her station. A qualified crew member could be a flight attendant or a relief pilot serving as part of the crew.”
According to rules set out by the European Aviation Safety Agency, pilots must remain at their “assigned station” throughout the flight, “unless absence is necessary for the performance of duties in connection with the operation or for physiological needs”.
At this point, one pilot can leave the cockpit provided “at least one suitably qualified pilot remains at the controls of the aircraft at all times”.
French officials said Lubitz appeared to have locked his fellow pilot out of the cockpit before he deliberately crashed the plane. Emergency codes allow crew to enter a locked cockpit in the event of incapacitated pilots, but Lubitz would have been able to override it – a post-9/11 security measure intended to prevent hijack.
In a press conference after the tragedy, Lufthansa’s chief executive, Carsten Spohr, said the company had full trust in its pilots and those flying for its low-cost division, Germanwings.
“In a company like ours where we are so proud of our selection criteria, our safety criteria, this is even more of a shock for us than it is for the general public,” said Spohr. “We can only speculate on what might have been the motivation of the co-pilot.”
He defended the company’s policy of allowing one pilot to operate alone in the cockpit, saying that rival operators used the same system.
US airlines have different systems for minimising the risk to pilots while flying, which often involve using food carts as makeshift barricades.
“Every airline in the United States has procedures designed to ensure that there is never a situation where a pilot is left alone in the cockpit,” said a representative for the Air Line Pilots Association.
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According to rules set out by the European Aviation Safety Agency, pilots must remain at their “assigned station” throughout the flight, “unless absence is necessary for the performance of duties in connection with the operation or for physiological needs”.
I've been on long haul Lufthansa and Korean Air flights and have noticed almost every time, about half way in, the pilots each come out and chit chat with the flight attendants and people near the front. I assume to stretch their legs.
What this will mean for short haul, budget carriers is allocating a third qualified pilot on every flight to hand off duties when one of the pilots needs to perform 'another function'. Waiting to see the wailing and gnashing of teeth when people see increases in their fares.
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Co-pilot battling depression, according to reports (http://nypost.com/2015/03/26/co-pilot-who-intentionally-destroyed-plane-wanted-to-fly-since-childhood/)
Co-pilot who rammed plane into Alps ‘battled depression’
By David K. Li and Danika Fears
March 26, 2015 | 9:37am
The 27-year-old co-pilot who “intentionally” crashed Germanwings Flight 9525 into the French Alps seemed jazzed about his job with the low-cost carrier — but had battled depression in the past, according to reports.
Andreas Lubitz grew up in the small town of Montabaur, Germany, and had been a member of the flying club Luftsportclub Westerwal since his teen years.
“Andreas became a member of the association as a teenager, he wanted to realize his dream of flying. He began as a gliding student and made it to become a pilot on an Airbus 320,” according to a statement from the club.
Club member Peter Ruecker said he didn’t sense Lubitz was suffering from any emotional or psychological problems.
“He was happy he had a job with Germanwings and he was doing well,” Ruecker said. “He seemed very enthusiastic [about his career]. I can’t remember anything where something wasn’t right.”
But Lubitz told one of his classmates that he had taken time off from his pilot training because he was suffering from depression, according to the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.
“Apparently he had a burnout, he was in depression,” the classmate’s mom told the newspaper ....
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Well according to this, he was a convert and guess what religion:
The co-pilot of the Germanwings Airbus was a convert to Islam
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1086/the-co-pilot-of-the-germanwings-airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam.html
Granted it hasn't been verified, but if true, look out..
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(http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/102/102942_800.jpg)
Well, this has got to rank as one of the more notable engineering failures in modern times.
A secret method for qualified personnel to open the cockpit door from the outside in an emergency -- UNLESS someone in the cockpit overrides it!
Well, then, what could go wrong?
Looks like it's back to the drawing board on this one.
Ahem.... "rule of two" in the cockpit?
What if both are.... well.... you-know-what ?
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On Boeings, the electronic lock can not be over-ridden from inside the cockpit. The outside over-ride control has priority. This is to ensure access can be gained to the cockpit in a serious emergency, such as both pilots being incapacitated and failing to respond to the 20 minute check.
There is a manual deadbolt inside the cockpit door, instead.
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Germanwings co-pilot's torn sick note, romantic breakup provide clues in crash probe
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/03/27/investigators-raid-germanwings-co-pilot-homes-as-questions-surround-mental/?intcmp=trending
Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz ripped up a doctor’s note excusing him from work on the day he crashed a crowded passenger plane into a mountain, prosecutors said Friday, while a German newspaper said the man may have just gone through a breakup with his girlfriend.
Prosecutors in Germany reported Friday that Lubitz was being treated for a medical illness that he hid from his employer. Investigators found torn-up doctor's notes, including one excusing him from work on the day of the crash, and other documents in searches at the home of Lubitz's parents and at an apartment he maintained in Dusseldorf. The evidence could provide clues as to why he apparently deliberately crashed the Airbus A320 into the French Alps Tuesday morning, killing all 150 people on board.
Prosecutor's spokesman Ralf Herrenbrueck said in a written statement that a doctor's note for the day of the crash "supports] the current preliminary assessment that the deceased hid his illness from his employer and colleagues."
Herrenbrueck said investigators did not find a so-called "Suicide Note" or a letter claiming evidence of a political or religious background leading up to the event.
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Breaking News @NewsOnTheMin
BREAKING: Duesseldorf clinic says media reports that Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz was treated there for depression are wrong. Reuters
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The puddin' thickens.....
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Question for the forum.....what if the pilot had not left the cockpit? Was the co-pilot going to crash the plane anyway????
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Question for the forum.....what if the pilot had not left the cockpit? Was the co-pilot going to crash the plane anyway????
At this point the answer to your question is probably unknowable.
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The puddin' thickens.....
Governments, the airline and the media will continue to push the 'depression' meme to keep the peeps in the dark about the real threat...
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Question for the forum.....what if the pilot had not left the cockpit? Was the co-pilot going to crash the plane anyway????
If not that flight, then the next one or the one after that.
It was just a matter of time until the opportunity presented itself...
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If not that flight, then the next one or the one after that.
It was just a matter of time until the opportunity presented itself...
That makes sense.