The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Bigun on June 24, 2016, 04:08:05 pm
-
A Republican delegate revolt becomes more likely
By Jennifer Rubin June 21
The RNC delegate revolt is reaching the boiling point. As unprecedented as it might be, and as far-fetched as it might have once sounded, it is becoming the logical solution to the Republicans’ conundrum.
Aside from Trump and his true believers, fewer and fewer Republican operatives, activists or donors think Trump can win. As CNN reports, “Interviews with more than a dozen donors, party, campaign and congressional officials make clear the concerns have moved beyond bruised feelings over personal slights — and even beyond the top donors who simply won’t give to the New York billionaire.” The report quotes a former Jeb Bush donor who intends to give to Trump as saying, “This isn’t a triage-type of situation. This is a massive, full body surgery type deal and we just don’t have much time for that.”
If there were a simple fix to the problem, a delegate revolt would not be needed. But that is not where things stand right now. Tim Miller, former communications director for Bush and for the Our Principles anti-Trump PAC, says, “My view is an extremely unqualified candidate calls for an unprecedented response.”
Excerpt: Much more at link below.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2016/06/21/a-republican-delegate-revolt-becomes-more-likely/?postshare=9821466684593580&tid=ss_tw
-
#Trexit
-
Washington Compost is not a Conservative's friend. So why is #neverTrump allowing Democrats to lead them around like this?
Bottom line the establishment will not be allowed to steal the nomination from Trump. And make no mistake this is not conservatives trying it, its Globalist Establishment types doing this.
-
Jennifer Rubin?! :silly: another antiTrumper who has been dead wrong about Trump at every step and at every juncture. Does she even still have a reputation to fall back on?
-
Continuing to ignore the inane Trump cheerleaders.
Dump Trump!
-
#Trexit
:laugh:
-
Continuing to ignore the inane Trump cheerleaders.
Dump Trump!
It's fun to twist their noses once in a while!
-
It's fun to twist their noses once in a while!
:beer:
-
Prime sources for #Nevertrump = WaPo and CNN
Put down the shovels
-
Why do Trumpsters always bring out globalists? Answer: Because they can't bash Cruz any more.
-
Why do Trumpsters always bring out globalists? Answer: Because they can't bash Cruz any more.
Yet, though Mr. Trump has amassed 1500+ delegates during the State primary process, you continue to "bash" (to use your words) Donald Trump and his supporters. What does that make you?
-
Yet, though Mr. Trump has amassed 1500+ delegates during the State primary process, you continue to "bash" (to use your words) Donald Trump and his supporters. What does that make you?
Someone who can see through the emperor's new clothes.
-
Why do Trumpsters always bring out globalists? Answer: Because they can't bash Cruz any more.
Because we are not the lo-info ones:
http://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6
http://yournewswire.com/nearly-all-scientific-papers-controlled-by-same-six-corporations/
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-10/does-bilderberg-really-run-world-one-chart-help-you-decide
Much more info if one is willing to open their eyes.
Trump is the only one that appears to be against the ruling class and specifically the Globalists Brexit just rejected.
-
Continuing to ignore the inane Trump cheerleaders.
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/64617642.jpg)
-
#Trexit
You know, that really needs a logo. And I have reason to that believe you're just the guy to create one. :smokin:
-
Washington Compost is not a Conservative's friend. So why is #neverTrump allowing Democrats to lead them around like this?
Bottom line the establishment will not be allowed to steal the nomination from Trump. And make no mistake this is not conservatives trying it, its Globalist Establishment types doing this.
Conservatives and patriots oppose Trump, and more to the point, oppose Hillary. Trump can't win - he's dysfunctional, he's unfit, he's an idiot leading his fellow idiots over the cliff.
If you're #NeverHillary, you must be #NeverTrump.
-
Prime sources for #Nevertrump = WaPo and CNN
Put down the shovels
The Prime source for Nevertrump is Donald Trump.
Thats the reality.
-
Yet, though Mr. Trump has amassed 1500+ delegates during the State primary process, you continue to "bash" (to use your words) Donald Trump and his supporters. What does that make you?
Makes us intelligent for trying to prevent an epic disaster.
-
Violate the obvious will of the GOP primary voters and there will be a GOP voter revolt. Trump won fair and square. Change the rules and the GOP will resemble Venezuela. Changing rules is the game of losers and cheaters and tyrants.
-
Conservatives and patriots oppose Trump, and more to the point, oppose Hillary. Trump can't win - he's dysfunctional, he's unfit, he's an idiot leading his fellow idiots over the cliff.
If you're #NeverHillary, you must be #NeverTrump.
Perfectly Orwellian.
-
Violate the obvious will of the GOP primary voters and there will be a GOP voter revolt. Trump won fair and square. Change the rules and the GOP will resemble Venezuela. Changing rules is the game of losers and cheaters and tyrants.
What rules? The rules governing this convention are yet to be established.
-
Conservatives and patriots oppose Trump, and more to the point, oppose Hillary. Trump can't win - he's dysfunctional, he's unfit, he's an idiot leading his fellow idiots over the cliff.
If you're #NeverHillary, you must be #NeverTrump.
Informed conservatives and patriots support Trump. The hall mark of Trump supporters is maturity. It has been shown more then once on this threads that #nevertrump is not a conservative operation, it never was, it was started by liberal Billionaires joining with Globalist Rinos who are still funding and controlling it with the help of democrats. Which is why when challenged on a factual basis on another thread #nevertrump failed badly to defend their position, instead arguing talking points and emotions.
Fact: #neverTrump is #alwaysHillary. This is so because its efforts are to select a RINO like Bush, Romney or Ryan at the convention knowing Trump people will not support the party in November if they do so. Also with up to five USSC judges appointed by Hillary and the loss of the 2nd, massive Muslim invasion and massive cultural change, there will be no real 2020 election. Thus Logic shows who are the uninformed and not thinking their actions thru.
-
What rules? The rules governing this convention are yet to be established.
Trump won well over the number of delegates required to win the nomination. He rightfully should be nominated and designated as the Republican nominee whether you like it or not.
-
Makes us intelligent for trying to prevent an epic disaster.
Do you think the GOP will avoid an epic disaster if it steals the nomination from Trump? That would be a far worse tragedy of irrecoverable proportions.
-
Trump won well over the number of delegates required to win the nomination. He rightfully should be nominated and designated as the Republican nominee whether you like it or not.
There is no required number of delegates to secure the nomination yet. There is a presumed number of delegates to secure the nomination. Just as there is no nominee yet, there is a presumed nominee.
-
Violate the obvious will of the GOP primary voters and there will be a GOP voter revolt. Trump won fair and square. Change the rules and the GOP will resemble Venezuela. Changing rules is the game of losers and cheaters and tyrants.
Are you suggesting that the Trump supporters won't vote for the republican nominee and therefore will be Hillary supporters?
-
Trump won well over the number of delegates required to win the nomination. He rightfully should be nominated and designated as the Republican nominee whether you like it or not.
What I like or don't like isn't the issue. You choose to play party politics, then you play by their rules. Even when those rules completely allow for themselves to be changed.
You should spend some time learning what those rules that govern the and procedures are because standing here complaining when they can be used against you isn't the fault of any neverTrumper. It's your fault for aligning yourself with untrustworthy pols and parties and expecting any outcome that favors constitutional governance.
-
Are you suggesting that the Trump supporters won't vote for the republican nominee and therefore will be Hillary supporters?
Of course they'd support whoever the nominee is. Trump supporters aren't precious snowflakes and the stakes are too high. Hillary cannot be allowed to appoint supreme court justices!
-
Are you suggesting that the Trump supporters won't vote for the republican nominee and therefore will be Hillary supporters?
No I will not vote for anybody but Trump and may not vote for anybody down ticket as well. Multiply that by 100 million. Thats what you are asking for.
-
Do you think the GOP will avoid an epic disaster if it steals the nomination from Trump? That would be a far worse tragedy of irrecoverable proportions.
In your opinion.
My opinion is that the GOP is an epic disaster and that opinion is supported by their actions going back over two decades.
You are also mistaken in your terminology. You cannot 'steal' something he does not own. Thats what a convention is for. Again, learn the 'rules' before complaining about this mess.
-
No I will not vote for anybody but Trump and may not vote for anybody down ticket as well. Multiply that by 100 million. Thats what you are asking for.
A Hillary supporter! I knew it! /s
-
Of course they'd support whoever the nominee is. Trump supporters aren't precious snowflakes and the stakes are too high. Hillary cannot be allowed to appoint supreme court justices!
No you are wrong. There will be no party and no difference at that point. Better to prepare for the civil war that will happen.
-
A Hillary supporter! I knew it! /s
The Hillary supporter is the #nevertrump people knowing they will cause Hillary to be elected if the steal the nomination for a RINO like they are trying. Better to prepare for the civil war that coming since there is no difference between the parties.
-
Violate the obvious will of the GOP primary voters and there will be a GOP voter revolt. Trump won fair and square. Change the rules and the GOP will resemble Venezuela. Changing rules is the game of losers and cheaters and tyrants.
I decided this morning, that many who cling to the #nevertrump identity, are in reality phoney conservatives.
They take the liberal side on most topics, as an example. Many defend globalism. They also defend risky muslims in our midst, unchecked illegal immigration, etc.
-
In your opinion.
My opinion is that the GOP is an epic disaster and that opinion is supported by their actions going back over two decades.
You are also mistaken in your terminology. You cannot 'steal' something he does not own. Thats what a convention is for. Again, learn the 'rules' before complaining about this mess.
By all measures Trump has won the nomination, Majority of votes majority of delegates and winning by the rules the Primary was run under. There is no way any RINO the #neverTrump people select can win. And they risk losing down ticket since most of the Trump supporters will not support the GOP after such a stupid betrayal.
-
By all measures Trump has won the nomination, Majority of votes majority of delegates and winning by the rules the Primary was run under. There is no way any RINO the #neverTrump people select can win. And they risk losing down ticket since most of the Trump supporters will not support the GOP after such a stupid betrayal.
No. By no measure has he won based on the fact the convention has not been held to award him that victory.
In your imagination he is the nominee. In reality he is not and hopefully never will be.
-
I decided this morning, that many who cling to the #nevertrump identity, are in reality phoney conservatives.
They take the liberal side on most topics, as an example. Many defend globalism. They also defend risky muslims in our midst, unchecked illegal immigration, etc.
When your very candidate counts 'globalist' George Soros as a personal friend, please spare me the hypocrisy of calling anyone but yourself a phony conservative.
-
No. By no measure has he won based on the fact the convention has not been held to award him that victory.
In your imagination he is the nominee. In reality he is not and hopefully never will be.
By all measures that matter he has won. Nobody #neverTrump selects by the theft will have any validity and will not win nor will the GOP win ever again - since the theft will destroy the party.
-
By all measures that matter he has won. Nobody #neverTrump selects by the theft will have any validity and will not win nor will the GOP win ever again - since the theft will destroy the party.
@Norm Lenhart
You can't steal something which doesn't currently exist.
-
By all measures that matter he has won. Nobody #neverTrump selects by the theft will have any validity and will not win nor will the GOP win ever again - since the theft will destroy the party.
Your fantasy about events that have not happened have no bearing on the reality that Trump has not won the nomination at a convention that has yet to occur under rules yet to be written.
Thats factual.
-
The Hillary supporter is the #nevertrump people knowing they will cause Hillary to be elected if the steal the nomination for a RINO like they are trying. Better to prepare for the civil war that coming since there is no difference between the parties.
I do not follow the logic here. We must all unite behind the presumptive republican nominee to prevent Hillary from winning. If the republican nominee ends up being someone other than Trump, we will never unite behind the actual republican nominee and will allow Hillary to win. To go further it is the fault of people who won't vote for Trump that you won't vote for the actual republican nominee.
-
@Norm Lenhart
You can't steal something which doesn't currently exist.
Cant tell such truths to a Trump fanatic. It upsets their safe space and causes them to repeat their mistaken assertions endlessly like the kid in the AI movie...
"Please Blue Fairy...Please Blue Fairy..."
No more truth to the existence of the Blue fairy than to the existence of Trump currently being the GOP nominee.
-
Perfectly Orwellian.
How so? I've been perfectly consistent in wanting to support a candidate who can defeat the Dems in November. You're supporting the one candidate who's so utterly unfit and disliked that he practically ensures a Democratic victory (and likely gains them the Senate as well).
Trumpsters are functionally equivalent to Hillary supporters.
-
Trump's so-called "fair and square win" of a plurality of the primary vote is questionable at best. He won by lying and slandering and whining. Anytime he lost he smeared that state's process and called it unfair. When he won he was mum even if the process was exactly the same. He used Alinsky tactics and tabloid connected friends to lie and smear about opponents. He acted like an overgrown baby and a full grown bully. There was nothing legitimately fair and square about it.
I can agree to that as well, and don't think there are many who can honestly say it was otherwise...
However, politics is a high stakes game. ...Trump broke no' laws' of the system, he simply played his hand as he chose. The problem was and remains that his opponents, the media and their staffs "EXPECTED" otherwise for him to conform to the standards of running a campaign....he didn't. ....
....Worse is none of them knew what to do to rise above the tidal wave he was on, they really didn't....Furthermore once the media got greedy for ratings it was obvious, the candidates needed to "outrageously "perform to get the attention of the media or the "star" would be Trump..daily and like a drum beat 24/7......we all heard and saw this..... That's what the public wanted so they got fed it. ...Trump set the stage in all it's glitz and glamor and the media chose to join the circus. That this was a serious election was no longer significant to the media, rather TV viewing and ratings were. And that's a fact we all know.
I will vote for Trump if he's confirmed....but this is one God awful election I never want to see the likes of again!!!
(http://:bullie smokin:)
-
No you are wrong. There will be no party and no difference at that point. Better to prepare for the civil war that will happen.
If it weren't for double standards, Captain Hairmerica's supporters would have no standards at all then.
-
I decided this morning, that many who cling to the #nevertrump identity, are in reality phoney conservatives.
They take the liberal side on most topics, as an example. Many defend globalism. They also defend risky muslims in our midst, unchecked illegal immigration, etc.
Sadly I have to agree. Watching several so-called conservatives argue for gay marriage, globalism, open borders, unchecked Jihadist immigration etc., is disturbing. I used to think it was just emotion that would eventually heal over until I saw the far left liberal arguments on other threads and the far left information sources used by some.
http://orthodoxnet.com/blog/2013/11/twenty-five-signs-that-youre-arguing-with-leftists/
-
Watching several so-called conservatives argue for gay marriage, globalism, open borders, unchecked Jihadist immigration etc., is disturbing.
Indeed.
Trump is pro gay agenda and is fine with gay marriage and Trannies in ladies rooms
Trump outsources his products to the global manufacturers rather than American.
Trump brags about his touchback amnesty and 'Big Beautiful Door" in his wall which negates the entire purpose of a border and of a wall on that border.
Very disturbing that people support such a disgusting human being.
-
Sadly I have to agree. Watching several so-called conservatives argue for gay marriage, globalism, open borders, unchecked Jihadist immigration etc., is disturbing. I used to think it was just emotion that would eventually heal over until I saw the far left liberal arguments on other threads and the far left information sources used by some.
http://orthodoxnet.com/blog/2013/11/twenty-five-signs-that-youre-arguing-with-leftists/
@truth_seeker
Repeating a lie doesnt make it the truth.
-
Yet, though Mr. Trump has amassed 1500+ delegates during the State primary process, you continue to "bash" (to use your words) Donald Trump and his supporters. What does that make you?
Circumspect.
-
Manafort - The delegates are revolting.
Trump - You said it, they stink on ice
:silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
-
Continuing to ignore the inane Trump cheerleaders....Dump Trump!
Well as I see it no matter how many Trump cheerleaders are ignored...Trump currently is the man of the hour. And what if he is confirmed at Convention....the delegates are in charge at this point. If the rules change to vote freely they will be all the more and there really is no way we can know which way they'll go.
Interesting that Cruz will not be "releasing" his delegates. Which regardless if he is or not who the GOP want to replace Trump...that's still a card he can play to affect the turnout.
If for some reason Cruz rises to stand again I'll be there to vote for him in the General in a heart beat!...until then Trump it is.
-
Indeed.
Trump is pro gay agenda and is fine with gay marriage and Trannies in ladies rooms
Trump outsources his products to the global manufacturers rather than American.
Trump brags about his touchback amnesty and 'Big Beautiful Door" in his wall which negates the entire purpose of a border and of a wall on that border.
Very disturbing that people support such a disgusting human being.
Facts are not your friend. Trump has proposed conservative Judges for the USSC so far. He has made clear he is returning education to local control. He has also made clear he will protect Christian's religious freedom removing such things as the prohibition for talking politics in churches. Smart people understand that that is how you repair our culture not by lying about such things while being owned by Gay Marriage Activist Billionaires...
The meme of touch back amnesty is a lie. Congress controls the immigration laws for who can come in. Legally is defined by them not the President.
While hes a business man nobody is going to hold him to fault for saving money. Until you show a competitive Domestic alternative exiting right now you have nothing to beat him up with while hes not in a position to change the trade environment and regulations.
Now explain why you are fighting to nominate a RINO knowing it will elect Hillary in November.
-
....There is no way any RINO the #neverTrump people select can win.
The #NeverTrump crowd are not the ones who are orchestrating this now. They may have initiate the idea publically as they did, but they are not the ones handling this revolt the article speaks of.
-
Facts are not your friend. Trump has proposed conservative Judges for the USSC so far. He has made clear he is returning education to local control. He has also made clear he will protect Christian's religious freedom removing such things as the prohibition for talking politics in churches. Smart people understand that that is how you repair our culture not by lying about such things while being owned by Gay Marriage Activist Billionaires...
The meme of touch back amnesty is a lie. Congress controls the immigration laws for who can come in. Legally is defined by them not the President.
While hes a business man nobody is going to hold him to fault for saving money. Until you show a competitive Domestic alternative exiting right now you have nothing to beat him up with while hes not in a position to change the trade environment and regulations.
Now explain why you are fighting to nominate a RINO knowing it will elect Hillary in November.
Every word I stated is factually supported. You can spin like a top. Matters not at all.
-
I decided this morning, that many who cling to the #nevertrump identity, are in reality phoney conservatives.
They take the liberal side on most topics, as an example. Many defend globalism. They also defend risky muslims in our midst, unchecked illegal immigration, etc.
That's a pretty broad brush you're using to tarnish the integrity of a whole lot of good people, who you THINK will vote for your candidate.
Trump lies, and I guess, so do some of his supporters.
You obviously are a bit low on the common sense quotient. Good luck with your strategy. Somehow, I think it ends with Hillary in the White House.
-
The #NeverTrump crowd are not the ones who are orchestrating this now. They may have initiate the idea publically as they did, but they are not the ones handling this revolt the article speaks of.
Actually they are, Ryan is #nevertrump, the funds behind the operation are from the same people who bankrolled the creation of #neverTrump such as the CEO of Google, etc. Notice its very few non-party officials in the list of anti-Trump delegates? Its really not much more than the GOPe trying a last ditch attempt to stop Trump and insert a RINO in his place.
-
Do you think the GOP will avoid an epic disaster if it steals the nomination from Trump? That would be a far worse tragedy of irrecoverable proportions.
The GOP wouldn't be stealing anything. I would hope that by now people understand the process. Further just as Trump has not played his hand according to the standards, and he broke no rules doing that....So why would you think the GOP would hold to the standards and not use the perfectly 'legal' steps they have to oppose him further???....After all it's Trump that changed the dynamics of the election.
This is why we are a Republic and not a Democracy...."checks and balances".
-
Now explain why you are fighting to nominate a RINO knowing it will elect Hillary in November.
I'm not fighting to nominate your candidate. I have always said I'm voting for a conservative.
YOUR candidate opposes many of the planks of the Republican platform. Why are YOU trying to nominate a RINO by definition?
Because you are anything but conservative.
-
Facts are not your friend.
Pot, meet kettle.
-
Pot, meet kettle.
Not sure why some people hate their country so much they will blatantly lie to distort their candidate's actual Anti-American statements. But clearly they do.
-
Trump is the biggest liberal RINO there ever was.
-
Mechanicos you still must have had me on ignore when I asked you to stop accusing people who are not voting for Trump Hillary supporters...make your case but don't accuse members of something they aren't.
-
Trump is the biggest liberal RINO there ever was.
And considering that Romney exists, that's a hell of an accomplishment.
-
Actually they are, Ryan is #nevertrump, the funds behind the operation are from the same people who bankrolled the creation of #neverTrump such as the CEO of Google, etc. Notice its very few non-party officials in the list of anti-Trump delegates? Its really not much more than the GOPe trying a last ditch attempt to stop Trump and insert a RINO in his place.
Following the money it looks like they simply switched to support this new group because they are far more organized to get it done then the Never Trump crowd was......it's not so much who opposes him as who has the ability to pull it off the most.
But they are not in charge.
-
I can agree to that as well, and don't think there are many who can honestly say it was otherwise...
However, politics is a high stakes game. ...Trump broke no' laws' of the system, he simply played his hand as he chose. The problem was and remains that his opponents, the media and their staffs "EXPECTED" otherwise for him to conform to the standards of running a campaign....he didn't. ....
....Worse is none of them knew what to do to rise above the tidal wave he was on, they really didn't....Furthermore once the media got greedy for ratings it was obvious, the candidates needed to "outrageously "perform to get the attention of the media or the "star" would be Trump..daily and like a drum beat 24/7......we all heard and saw this..... That's what the public wanted so they got fed it. ...Trump set the stage in all it's glitz and glamor and the media chose to join the circus. That this was a serious election was no longer significant to the media, rather TV viewing and ratings were. And that's a fact we all know.
I will vote for Trump if he's confirmed....but this is one God awful election I never want to see the likes of again!!!
(http://:bullie smokin:)
I think people are forgetting that Donald Trump came into this race a novice with a bull's-eye on his back. EVERYONE, from his presidential opponents to the liberal media, conservative media, DC establishment republicans and democrats, and every late night comedian and their mother came gunning for Donald Trump.
Considering the odds, and considering the arena in which he fought: the pigsty profession of politics, Donald Trump won it fair and square using the Marquee of Queensberry rules which is customary in politics. Remember, it ain't beanbag.
-
That's a pretty broad brush you're using to tarnish the integrity of a whole lot of good people, who you THINK will vote for your candidate.
Trump lies, and I guess, so do some of his supporters.
You obviously are a bit low on the common sense quotient. Good luck with your strategy. Somehow, I think it ends with Hillary in the White House.
OldsaltUSN nobody is saying all, but even you had to have asked yourself WTF at some of the arguments some of the most aggressive #neverTrump people have put forth in other threads and to attack Trump. Such as for "reasonable gun control," Such as for "gay marriage," such as for "NAFTA/TPP is good," calling Trump Racist for standing up to unchecked Jihadist immigration, open borders etc.
-
I think people are forgetting that Donald Trump came into this race a novice with a bull's-eye on his back. EVERYONE, from his presidential opponents to the liberal media, conservative media, DC establishment republicans and democrats, and every late night comedian and their mother came gunning for Donald Trump.
Considering the odds, and considering the arena in which he fought: the pigsty profession of politics, Donald Trump won it fair and square using the Marquee of Queensberry rules which is customary in politics. Remember, it ain't beanbag.
The last novice we put in power was a roaring success. 8 years of constitutional governance. That Obama guy was AWESOME!!!!
Not.
Trump has not won the nomination fair, unfair or otherwise. You are giving a win that has not yet occurred. There is no logical reason to do that. So you are just spreading a lie.
-
Mechanicos you still must have had me on ignore when I asked you to stop accusing people who are not voting for Trump Hillary supporters...make your case but don't accuse members of something they aren't.
Mystery-ak, I have made a logical argument for that. Most Trump supporters will not support anybody selected at the convention if its not Trump. Since we are the majority of Republican voters its math supporting the argument that if we do not support Ryan or Bush et al - who would be the only ones that would be selected - that the Democrat will win.
So its follows, No Trump = No party.
And no I do not have you on ignore. I do not get PINGs or whatever. If I do not see it in mail or on a thread I do not see it at all.
-
OldsaltUSN nobody is saying all, but even you had to have asked yourself WTF at some of the arguments some of the most aggressive #neverTrump people have put forth in other threads and to attack Trump. Such as for "reasonable gun control," Such as for "gay marriage," such as for "NAFTA/TPP is good," calling Trump Racist for standing up to unchecked Jihadist immigration, open borders etc.
Gun control is unconstitutional.
Gay marriage is not conservative.
Trump is fine with both.
-
Mystery-ak, I have made a logical argument for that. Most Trump supporters will not support anybody selected at the convention if its not Trump. Since we are the majority of Republican voters its math supporting the argument that if we do not support Ryan or Bush et al - who would be the only ones that would be selected - that the Democrat will win.
So its follows, No Trump = No party.
That is the voter's right..this is how it works.
-
Mystery-ak, I have made a logical argument for that. Most Trump supporters will not support anybody selected at the convention if its not Trump. Since we are the majority of Republican voters its math supporting the argument that if we do not support Ryan or Bush et al - who would be the only ones that would be selected - that the Democrat will win.
So its follows, No Trump = No party.
No, you repeated Trumpian smears. Thats all you can do other than lie openly.
-
Most Trump supporters will not support anybody selected at the convention if its not Trump.
That's just not true....I'm supporting Trump currently but let me tell you that if they put up Cruz I'll be there quicker than flies to Honey!
Even Ryan I should think but I would have to think about that.....so no not all Never Trumps won't vote...I was a Never Trumper.
-
That is the voter's right..this is how it works.
It still does not dispel the fact that if #neverTrump is successful at denying Trump the nomination Hillary will win. Because Trump supporters will feel more justified anger and disgust at the actions of the party then #neverTrump has now against Trump.
-
That's just not true....I'm supporting Trump currently but let me tell you that if they put up Cruz I'll be there quicker than flies to Honey!
Even Ryan I should think but I would have to think about that.....so no not all Never Trumps won't vote...I was a Never Trumper.
When I refer to Trump supporters I guess I should say the non-reluctant ones :)
-
Most Trump supporters will not support anybody selected at the convention if its not Trump.
Then they'll be Hillary supporters as well. No /s.
-
Then they'll be Hillary supporters as well. No /s.
[holds up a mirror] This is how many are seeing the people trying to install a Rino at the convention now.
-
Yet, though Mr. Trump has amassed 1500+ delegates during the State primary process, you continue to "bash" (to use your words) Donald Trump and his supporters. What does that make you?
Smart voters.... that's what. What does supporting an unelectable neophyte make you?
-
The last novice we put in power was a roaring success. 8 years of constitutional governance. That Obama guy was AWESOME!!!!
Not.
Trump has not won the nomination fair, unfair or otherwise. You are giving a win that has not yet occurred. There is no logical reason to do that. So you are just spreading a lie.
"Presumptive nominee" is not some novel concept here. In normal elections--absent epidemic Trump Derangement Syndrome--the party traditionally rallies round the obvious winning candidate sometimes as early as April or May.
Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee no matter how much neverTrump bellyaches or fantasizes about a Cruz convention coup.
-
We seized the moment before and were richly rewarded. Given what's at stake, the delegates will do it again.
Video at link.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/24/politics/delegates-unbound-first-television-ad-donald-trump/index.html
-
[holds up a mirror] This is how many are seeing the people trying to install a Rino at the convention now.
Can we not agree that none of us are Hillary supporters? It's a statement that gets us nowhere.
-
It should be noted as WAC said that its not #nevertrump running the anti-Trump operation at the convention anymore. IMHO this is so since there are too few remaining but rather its the GOP Establishment types running the show . Consequently, the only ones who would be selected to replace Trump with such an operation would not be conservatives like Cruz but rather would be an Establishment type person such as Ryan or Bush etc. The mood of America that propelled Trump to the win so far is decidedly anti-Establishment. Thus, such activity would assuredly cause not only a loss of the presidency in the general but risks a loss down ticket because of the anger and disgust with the GOP party for doing so.
Imagine if you will if just a fourth of Trump supporters were so angry and disgusted at the GOP and the selected candidate for "stealing" the nomination they revolt against the party....
-
By all measures Trump has won the nomination, Majority of votes majority of delegates and winning by the rules the Primary was run under. There is no way any RINO the #neverTrump people select can win. And they risk losing down ticket since most of the Trump supporters will not support the GOP after such a stupid betrayal.
Others pointing out where your facts are wrong has never kept you from repeating those errors, but...
acording to gateway pundit Trump got 44% of the primary vote which is a plurality, not a majority.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/trump-trumps-wins-historic-race-record-fashion/
(http://16004-presscdn-0-50.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/trump-votes-575x60.jpg)
A majority of GOP voters rejected Trump.
-
Can we not agree that none of us are Hillary supporters? It's a statement that gets us nowhere.
Problem is there is no other probable result if the anti-Trumps are successful at replacing Trump at the convention.
I am open to an anti-Trump demonstrating a probable alternative result with facts.
-
Problem is there is no other probable result if the anti-Trumps are successful at replacing Trump at the convention.
I am open to an anti-Trump demonstrating a probable alternative result with facts.
And there is no other probable result if the anti-Trumps are not successful at replacing Trump at the convention.
So here we are, each of us a "Hillary supporter". Which we both know we are not.
-
Others pointing out where your facts are wrong has never kept you from repeating those errors, but...
acording to gateway pundit Trump got 44% of the primary vote which is a plurality, not a majority.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/trump-trumps-wins-historic-race-record-fashion/
(http://16004-presscdn-0-50.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/trump-votes-575x60.jpg)
A majority of GOP voters rejected Trump.
FACT an even much larger majority rejected everybody else. So everyone else is worse off under this bogus argument. Plus its a logical fallacy to say all who voted for somebody else were opposed to Trump.
Oh and 44 percent out of SEVENTEEN candidates running with over half a billion in funds against him is outstanding. Your argument holds no water outside a 2 person race.
-
And there is no other probable result if the anti-Trumps are not successful at replacing Trump at the convention.
So here we are, each of us a "Hillary supporter". Which we both know we are not.
The best predictor of future performance is past performance.
Trump supporters with him from the beginning have predicted he would win the Primary by large numbers. So our prediction performance is 100 percent accurate. We say Trump will win in a landslide in November against Hillary. Odds are in our favor.
Anti-Trumps have a past performance of zero accuracy on their predictions. So their prediction he will lose has no odds in its favor.
Rational argument there.
-
We seized the moment before and were richly rewarded. Given what's at stake, the delegates will do it again.
Video at link.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/24/politics/delegates-unbound-first-television-ad-donald-trump/index.html
Everyone should watch that video to avail themselves of the ongoing effort to unbind the delegates on the first ballot.
It is important to know WHO is on the Rules Committee that will determine the rules of the convention as they are the ones who would unbind the delegates. Perhaps some do not remember this:
When Trump was sitting in Trump Tower rather than going after actual delegates as they were being chosen in state conventions, Cruz and his people were at every state convention to encourage their delegates to be chosen for the National Convention. Cruz and his people were not only choosing individual delegates, they were pushing their chosen delegates to be on the RULES COMMITTEE. It is highly likely, the majority of delegates on the Rules Committee are Cruz delegates and he has not released his delegates. These Cruz delegates are true to Cruz, especially as Trump shows his ignorance of government and makes enemies with his mouth attacking anyone who has a thought other than his.
I pray these delegates will consider the country and unbind delegates.
@Norm Lenhart
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon
@Bigun
@RoosGirl
-
FACT an even much larger majority rejected everybody else. So everyone else is worse off under this bogus argument. Plus its a logical fallacy to say all who voted for somebody else were opposed to Trump.
Oh and 44 percent out of SEVENTEEN candidates running with over half a billion in funds against him is outstanding. Your argument holds no water outside a 2 person race.
Blah blah blah. You said Trump got a majority of votes. My argument is he did not. You fail. :laugh:
-
The best predictor of future performance is past performance.
Exactly why all good men (and women) should fight strenuously to keep Trump out of the White House.
-
The best predictor of future performance is past performance.
Quite right. Can we finally discuss Trump's performance with respect to any conservative and/or republican causes?
Trump supporters with him from the beginning have predicted he would win the Primary by large numbers. So our prediction performance is 100 percent accurate. We say Trump will win in a landslide in November against Hillary. Odds are in our favor.
Anti-Trumps have a past performance of zero accuracy on their predictions. So their prediction he will lose has no odds in its favor.
Rational argument there.
If we're only playing odds, like the flip of a coin, a win or a non-win, then you are not correct. Odds of repeatedly landing on heads diminish with each flip.
-
Never Trump movement gets little help from convention rules panel roster
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,213386.msg941506.html#new
-
Exactly why all good men (and women) should fight strenuously to keep Trump out of the White House.
The Problem with most of #nevertrump's arguments on Trump is they are election year fictions not actual facts.
-
Never Trump movement gets little help from convention rules panel roster
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,213386.msg941506.html#new
I'm with the little guy.
-
This is how many are seeing the people trying to install a Rino at the convention now.
That could be almost any one of them. Probably 90% of the GOP is a RINO because the GOP has no identity other than that big friggin' elephant.
-
The Problem with most of #nevertrump's arguments on Trump is they are election year fictions not actual facts.
Most of the people that I have seen comments from that do not support Trump appear to be pretty level headed and have a firm grasp of fact vs. fiction and fact vs. opinion. If it were the case that nevertrump arguments were based on "election year fictions" then it would have been pretty easy to prove them wrong. I have not seen that happen. Not that I should necessarily be included with that level headed group, but answering my simple question of asking for proof of Trump supporting on a longer term basis any conservative and/or republican issue has not been accomplished.
-
The best predictor of future performance is past performance.
Trump supporters with him from the beginning have predicted he would win the Primary by large numbers. So our prediction performance is 100 percent accurate. We say Trump will win in a landslide in November against Hillary. Odds are in our favor.
Anti-Trumps have a past performance of zero accuracy on their predictions. So their prediction he will lose has no odds in its favor.
Rational argument there.
Indeed. His performance throughout his past is highly liberal. thus there is, by your own estimation, every rational reason to believe his future performance will be as liberal. Perhaps even more since he has taken to lying about actual conservatives like Ted Cruz and trashing opponents of islam like Pamela Gellar. And opponents of Gay Marriage. I seem to remember how casually he cast aside 5,000 years of civilization to mouth off about one woman who stood on principle, refusing to sign off on the BS 'marriage' of two homosexuals. As she sat in jail.
Facts. Gotta love'em.
Well, not if you are a Trump fanatic.
-
"Presumptive nominee" is not some novel concept here. In normal elections--absent epidemic Trump Derangement Syndrome--the party traditionally rallies round the obvious winning candidate sometimes as early as April or May.
Donald Trump is the presumptive nominee no matter how much neverTrump bellyaches or fantasizes about a Cruz convention coup.
'Presume' till the cows come home. Trump is not the nominee. Fact. The convention has not been held. Fact. The rules have not been set. Fact.
Do you deny any of that? Yes or no please. Not some excuse and BullsXit laden tirade.
-
Indeed. His performance throughout his past is highly liberal. thus there is, by your own estimation, every rational reason to believe his future performance will be as liberal. Perhaps even more since he has taken to lying about actual conservatives like Ted Cruz and trashing opponents of islam like Pamela Gellar. And opponents of Gay Marriage. I seem to remember how casually he cast aside 5,000 years of civilization to mouth off about one woman who stood on principle, refusing to sign off on the BS 'marriage' of two homosexuals. As she sat in jail.
Facts. Gotta love'em.
Well, not if you are a Trump fanatic.
Like I said election year fictions by opponents:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/252753-trump-on-ky-clerk-i-hate-to-see-her-put-in-jail
What was omitted in the post above, oh yeah not that he agreed with the law but he was sad she went to jail. His entire position was on obeying the law not about supporting the gay agenda.
-
Violate the obvious will of the GOP primary voters and there will be a GOP voter revolt. Trump won fair and square.
I've mentioned it before but I'll mention it again: Thanks to the phalanx of open primaries, we don't
really know how many actual Republicans voted for Donaldus Minimus in the primaries, pending
any final revelation of the actual numbers. We don't really know for dead last certain how much
actual Republican support he really has. (If there was ever good cause to oppose and try to upend
the open primary system---why the hell should anyone but Republicans be picking a Republican
candidate, or Democrats picking a Democratic candidate, and so on down the lines?)
Change the rules and the GOP will resemble Venezuela. Changing rules is the game of losers and cheaters and tyrants.
Not a Single Republican Delegate is "Bound" to Donald Trump (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/436428/republican-convention-delegates-not-bound-donald-trump)
-
Washington Compost is not a Conservative's friend. So why is #neverTrump allowing Democrats to lead them around like this?
Bottom line the establishment will not be allowed to steal the nomination from Trump. And make no mistake this is not conservatives trying it, its Globalist Establishment types doing this.
Only the news pre-approved by your Dear Leader is fit to be read. Anything else is poisonous propaganda. Anyone caught reading it will be sent for 're-education'.
...
Get thee to North Korea. You already parrot their governmental line.
-
Quite right. Can we finally discuss Trump's performance with respect to any conservative and/or republican causes?
If we're only playing odds, like the flip of a coin, a win or a non-win, then you are not correct. Odds of repeatedly landing on heads diminish with each flip.
Wrong. The odds of landing on heads each time remain exactly the same, regardless of previous flips. (0.50)
Each flip is an independent event.
-
Like I said election year fictions by opponents:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/252753-trump-on-ky-clerk-i-hate-to-see-her-put-in-jail
What was omitted in the post above, oh yeah not that he agreed with the law but he was sad she went to jail. His entire position was on obeying the law not about supporting the gay agenda.
From your article, “I’m a believer in both sides of the issue,” the New York business mogul said.
Perhaps this is what @Norm Lenhart meant by mouthing off.
-
Wrong. The odds of landing on heads each time remain exactly the same, regardless of previous flips. (0.50)
Each flip is an independent event.
That's correct if you're looking at only one event and not a series of events of odds of getting the same answer, as what was initially described.
-
From your article, Perhaps this is what @Norm Lenhart meant by mouthing off.
Pray tell what is the owner of Trump towers and many other properties in NYC going to say about the protected class of gays while hes vulnerable to their lawyers bankrupting his businesses there and forcing him to lay off thousands of workers? Oh right, this is the time and hill to die on I guess... No need to wait until he has conservative Supreme Court justices in place. Its all about principles right now...
-
Like I said election year fictions by opponents:
What was omitted in the post above, oh yeah not that he agreed with the law but he was sad she went to jail. His entire position was on obeying the law not about supporting the gay agenda.
You do so love to spin. Spin meaning flatly lie to serve your candidate.
"You have to go with it. The decision's been made, and that is the law of the land," the real estate mogul said Friday on MSNBC's "Morning Joe."
Trump declined to weigh in on the issue Thursday -- stating during a press conference he wasn't very familiar with the issue -- but said Friday that Davis should have let her deputies in the office certify the marriages. Davis's attorney said Friday that she has no intention to resign."
End result of Trumps refusal to stand with 5000 years of civilization and Kim Davis: Gay agenda wins.
See also
"I was just following orders"
-
Pray tell what is the owner of Trump towers and many other properties in NYC going to say about the protected class of gays while hes vulnerable to their lawyers bankrupting his businesses there and forcing him to lay off thousands of workers? Oh right, this is the time and hill to die on I guess... No need to wait until he has conservative Supreme Court justices in place. Its all about principles right now...
Its about principles 24/7/365. If you had any that were conservative, you'd have known that. Instead like any other liberal, you put a time and a price on whether or not they should be upheld.
Just like the historically liberal candidate you support.
-
Its about principles 24/7/365. If you had any that were conservative, you'd have known that. Instead like any other liberal, you put a time and a price on whether or not they should be upheld.
Just like the historically liberal candidate you support.
When you have thousands of people relying on you for their jobs you commit economic suicide when there is no need to do so at this time. Oh and stop insulting me calling me a liberal because I have real world experience and know what risk reward analysis is. I'm not the one helping to elect the democrat here.
-
That's correct if you're looking at only one event and not a series of events of odds of getting the same answer, as what was initially described.
The odds do NOT DIMINISH with each flip, they remain the same for each successive flip.
You do NOT wager on odds of past known events, but on unknown future events.
-
Oh and stop insulting me calling me a liberal ....
Irritating as hell, isn't it. You might want to think on that a bit the next time you are tempted to cast that same stone.
And your link to 25 ways you know you are arguing with a liberal always gives me a smile. One of the items is "They use the term hater" - something that I've only ever seen Trump supporters do.
-
This convention revolt silliness is nothing more than fantasy. The rules committee is dominated by Trump people and by colleagues of Reince Priebus...and even if that were not so, very few people at the delegate level are dumb enough to attempt to snatch a nomination by after-the-vote rules changes. Its just not going to happen and the NeverTrump crowd is setting itself up...again...for a major disappointment. Prolonging this fantasy is pointless and destructive to the party...and very helpful to Hillary Clinton. So you are actively helping her into the White House when you advocate for this idiocy.
Because this stuff has no chance of success, its only purpose is to hurt the party. Which is, pardon the directness, really stupid. Its the path to a radically liberal next 8 years. And if you think you'd get that as well with Mr. Trump, you simply do not understand how politics and our governmental structure work...much less comprehend the policies that Mr. Trump is advocating.
The choice at this point is simple...though so many on the far right don't like it. You are faced with the election of a Hillary Clinton and an accompanying radically left wing government that will deliberately destroy your 1st, 2nd and other amendment rights. You will get much higher taxation, much bigger government, complete amnesty for 12 million illegals and an open invitation to 12 million more, and 2-4 radically left wing Supreme Court justices. On the other hand, you are faced with a GOP nominee who is to the left of Ted Cruz but WAY to the right of Hillary Clinton...and again, if you think that isn't true you are simply fooling yourself. When we elect a president, we get a platform/agenda and a host of political structure from their side of the aisle...particularly true if the party holds one or both houses of congress.
So the choice is stark...it is not between two liberals despite the numerous deluded fools who repeat that patently idiotic mantra based on positions no longer held by the GOP nominee. This election IS a choice...to be fair...between a radical leftist-globalist (Hillary)...and a somewhat socially moderate (though right of center certainly), fiscal and military conservative who is a staunch America first foreign policy advocate.
That isn't the choice many of you wanted...but that is the choice. And its time to quit pretending there are other options. There aren't, one of those two is our next President. Period.
So get over this "revolt" mirage...it ain't happening and in your heart of hearts, you all know this. You're going to have Hillary or you're going to have Mr Trump...two very different candidates who are far apart on the political spectrum. You can support whoever you want, but quit pretending that there is any other outcome possible than one of those two being president. There isn't.
Pick the guy who will give you Conservative justices and fix immigration...or...go for the gal who will give Liberal justices and 10's of millions of new immigrant citizens via amnesty. Or don't vote...or vote 3rd party...but know that HOW you vote, and whoever you vote for, will help determine if either Hillary Clinton and the Democrats...or...Donald Trump and the Republicans win this election. Your choice, of course.
-
The odds do NOT DIMINISH with each flip, they remain the same for each successive flip.
You do NOT wager on odds of past known events, but on unknown future events.
Are you saying that the odds of getting 5 heads in a row are the same as getting 1 heads? I am talking about the "odds" of the same thing happening several times in a row based on the original comment.
-
The rules committee is dominated by Trump people and by colleagues of Reince Priebus
Do you actually have proof of this yet or is this just another something you say because it serves the purpose?
-
I agree, Mesaclone, we have a choice to make. And it is quite painful to conclude that Trump as President is worse than Clinton as President. But he is.
The problem with Trump isn't that he's not raising important issues. A lot of his economic nationalism shtick (and from him, it is shtick) resonates with me, and I have no objection to the proto-Constitutional practice of tariffs (if done correctly). And, obviously, I'd love to deny Hillary the SCOTUS picks.
The problem with Trump is Trump. He's brought the train so far, but it's time to cede the controls. He's dangerously unstable, and temperamentally the worst thing you'd want as CIC. He's baited and insulted a gigantic swath of the population. I say that's pernicious, and stupid, and the man's aggression-fueled narcissism scares the shit out of everyone I talk to.
Trump's on the verge of claiming credit for Brexit. But the lesson of Brexit's victory is to present the issue with tact and seriousness, with the support of serious, credible leaders. That's how Brexit won. The public face of the issue wasn't a ludicrous clownshow.
Trump and the issues he represents are going to lose badly to Hillary Clinton. To save those issues, and not to mention having a shot at defeating Clinton and saving the Senate, a new face is needed. Trump's got to do the right thing and respect the will of the delegates voting their consciences.
-
If and when the only choice to save the ship of state is to vote for which
between two icebergs would offer a gentler collision, a none of the above
vote looks better and better every day. Since my state has the option, I'll
use it. I have no intention of helping this country stick its head any further
up its ass than it is already---and its head is already so far up its ass it could
give you spot reporting of its own ongoing root canal procedure. Just pray
that, at minimum, Donaldus Minimus doesn't wound the down-ticket . . .
-
I agree, Mesaclone, we have a choice to make. And it is quite painful to conclude that Trump as President is worse than Clinton as President. But he is.
The problem with Trump isn't that he's not raising important issues. A lot of his economic nationalism shtick (and from him, it is shtick) resonates with me, and I have no objection to the proto-Constitutional practice of tariffs (if done correctly). And, obviously, I'd love to deny Hillary the SCOTUS picks.
The problem with Trump is Trump. He's brought the train so far, but it's time to cede the controls. He's dangerously unstable, and temperamentally the worst thing you'd want as CIC. He's baited and insulted a gigantic swath of the population. I say that's pernicious, and stupid, and the man's aggression-fueled narcissism scares the shit out of everyone I talk to.
Trump's on the verge of claiming credit for Brexit. But the lesson of Brexit's victory is to present the issue with tact and seriousness, with the support of serious, credible leaders. That's how Brexit won. The public face of the issue wasn't a ludicrous clownshow.
Trump and the issues he represents are going to lose badly to Hillary Clinton. To save those issues, and not to mention having a shot at defeating Clinton and saving the Senate, a new face is needed. Trump's got to do the right thing and respect the will of the delegates voting their consciences.
I'm not going to argue with how you wish to vote...beyond disagreeing. Your conclusions are subjective, as are mine, so we'll just have to see if Trump's issues are or are not ones that will lead him to a win. What's not debateable, is that Trump is going to be the GOP nominee...he won more primary votes than any GOP candidate in our history. So there isn't going to be some magic rule change that flips the nomination...that really is a childish fantasy. As for doing the right thing, that is clear. Delegates were put in place by the votes of GOP primary voters...and that is why they are not free to vote as they want, but rather as the voters put them in place to do.
It is not "their" own personal consciences that delegates are representing, but rather those of the primary voters who cast their votes under the current rules that hold delegates in place. They have no right to substitute their will/conscience for that of the citizens who actually voted....suggesting such is deeply unethical. So, there is no moral dilemma for delegates, but rather a clear duty to voters holding them to their obligation on the first ballot. If they feel they morally cannot fulfill that duty, than all they need do is step down as a delegate thus freeing themselves from any internal dissonance they may feel.
-
Are you saying that the odds of getting 5 heads in a row are the same as getting 1 heads? I am talking about the "odds" of the same thing happening several times in a row based on the original comment.
The odds of each individual flip remain 50:50, no matter if you flip the coin once or a million times.
The odds of getting five heads in a row are 1 in 32. There are 32 possible combinations of coin results based on 5 flips, only one of which is all 5 heads.
You are each using "odds" in a different sense.
-
If and when the only choice to save the ship of state is to vote for which
between two icebergs would offer a gentler collision, a none of the above
vote looks better and better every day. Since my state has the option, I'll
use it. I have no intention of helping this country stick its head any further
up its ass than it is already---and its head is already so far up its ass it could
give you spot reporting of its own ongoing root canal procedure. Just pray
that, at minimum, Donaldus Minimus doesn't wound the down-ticket . . .
You'll vote as you wish, no doubt.
But feigning some sort of equivalence between the two candidates is not rational...and its rather childish. They are not two icebergs as in the analogy, at best you could argue an iceberg vs a moderately large wave...as the impacts of putting one of the two in the White House are RADICALLY different. You may think both are bad...but they are not in proximity in such a spectrum. One brings a wildly left wing agenda AND a party infrastructure that will work to impose that radical ideology on our government...and thus the nation. That is qualitatively different....vastly different...than any argument that could be made concerning the policies of Mr Trump which ALSO come with a powerful party infrastructure that supports AND restrains his actionsl
So while you could certainly argue that you would be choosing between evils (though I disagree), you cannot rationally argue that the "evils" are in any way similar in magnitude. Nor can you argue that the potential damage of a true Democrat party left wing "possession" of our government wouldn't be vastly worse than that of the GOP nominee. And if you would argue such a thing, you simply are deluding yourself intentionally...or you are heinously misinformed as to the connection between policy and political structure.
-
When you have thousands of people relying on you for their jobs you commit economic suicide when there is no need to do so at this time. Oh and stop insulting me calling me a liberal because I have real world experience and know what risk reward analysis is. I'm not the one helping to elect the democrat here.
Ha, ha, ha. By the way here's a question for you.
Where was Corey escorted out by armed guards?
1. When he pushed a female reporter and bruised her arm.
or
2. When he was fired by the Donald..
One job lost.
-
Everyone should watch that video to avail themselves of the ongoing effort to unbind the delegates on the first ballot.
It is important to know WHO is on the Rules Committee that will determine the rules of the convention as they are the ones who would unbind the delegates. Perhaps some do not remember this:
When Trump was sitting in Trump Tower rather than going after actual delegates as they were being chosen in state conventions, Cruz and his people were at every state convention to encourage their delegates to be chosen for the National Convention. Cruz and his people were not only choosing individual delegates, they were pushing their chosen delegates to be on the RULES COMMITTEE. It is highly likely, the majority of delegates on the Rules Committee are Cruz delegates and he has not released his delegates. These Cruz delegates are true to Cruz, especially as Trump shows his ignorance of government and makes enemies with his mouth attacking anyone who has a thought other than his.
I pray these delegates will consider the country and unbind delegates.
@Norm Lenhart
@mystery-ak
@CatherineofAragon
@Bigun
@RoosGirl
@Victoria33
So, when we used to talk about Ted Cruz playing a long game, we didn't know just HOW long it really was. Wow. The man always impresses.
(Actually, YOU probably knew from your days in state politics, but I'll be the first to admit I hadn't a clue).
-
The odds of each individual flip remain 50:50, no matter if you flip the coin once or a million times.
The odds of getting five heads in a row are 1 in 32. There are 32 possible combinations of coin results based on 5 flips, only one of which is all 5 heads.
You are each using "odds" in a different sense.
You are correct. The person that originally brought it up was talking about the odds of them being correct (in a scenario of only "correct" or "incorrect" possibilities) was higher since they had been correct several times in a row previously. I was talking about the odds of the same thing happening several times in a row with respect to that. Of course any individual 1 or 0 outcome is 1/2 or 50%. But then the odds of that same outcome several times, say 5 like in your example, in a row becomes 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = (0.5)^5 = 1 /32 = 0.03125 = 3.125%
-
I'm not going to argue with how you wish to vote...beyond disagreeing. Your conclusions are subjective, as are mine, so we'll just have to see if Trump's issues are or are not ones that will lead him to a win. What's not debateable, is that Trump is going to be the GOP nominee...he won more primary votes than any GOP candidate in our history. So there isn't going to be some magic rule change that flips the nomination...that really is a childish fantasy. As for doing the right thing, that is clear. Delegates were put in place by the votes of GOP primary voters...and that is why they are not free to vote as they want, but rather as the voters put them in place to do.
It is not "their" own personal consciences that delegates are representing, but rather those of the primary voters who cast their votes under the current rules that hold delegates in place. They have no right to substitute their will/conscience for that of the citizens who actually voted....suggesting such is deeply unethical. So, there is no moral dilemma for delegates, but rather a clear duty to voters holding them to their obligation on the first ballot. If they feel they morally cannot fulfill that duty, than all they need do is step down as a delegate thus freeing themselves from any internal dissonance they may feel.
I don't vote for democrats and I don't vote 3rd party, so my path and conscience is clear. I'm voting for the republican nominee.
Added bonus: Mr. Trump's a workaholic, a fast study and a peak achiever at whatever challenge he undertakes. His record and personal accounts from friends and associates confirm it.
Those nattering nabobs of negativism don't know what they're talking about. In fact, they're talking crazy. But that's politics for you, all passion and anger. #neverLogic and #neverReason
-
It is highly likely, the majority of delegates on the Rules Committee are Cruz delegates and he has not released his delegates. These Cruz delegates are true to Cruz, especially as Trump shows his ignorance of government and makes enemies with his mouth attacking anyone who has a thought other than his.
Sweet T.E.A. :beer:
-
So the choice is stark...it is not between two liberals despite the numerous deluded fools who repeat that patently idiotic mantra based on positions no longer held by the GOP nominee. This election IS a choice...to be fair...between a radical leftist-globalist (Hillary)...and a somewhat socially moderate (though right of center certainly), fiscal and military conservative who is a staunch America first foreign policy advocate.
That isn't the choice many of you wanted...but that is the choice. And its time to quit pretending there are other options. There aren't, one of those two is our next President. Period.Donald Trump and the Republicans win this election. Your choice, of course.
@Mesaclone
Nope. This isn't a banana republic where someone gets to tell me I MUST vote for so-and-so and there's nothing to be done about it. NO ONE instructs me on what to do with my vote. It belongs to no one else; I do not owe it to anyone. It must be earned. Neither Trump or Clinton have done anything to earn it, nor will they. I would not in my wildest dreams consider voting for either of them. That's MY choice. How do you like it?
I know it's hard for you folks, only now coming up against a wall of cold, hard reality, but we meant it when we told you we wouldn't vote for Clinton or for her good buddy and donor. I guess you're going to have to get used to it, or not. But all the begging and tantruming in the world isn't going to change it.
-
@Victoria33
So, when we used to talk about Ted Cruz playing a long game, we didn't know just HOW long it really was. Wow. The man always impresses. (Actually, YOU probably knew from your days in state politics, but I'll be the first to admit I hadn't a clue).
Yes, it was my experience with state politics and how conventions worked and being at a number of them, that allowed me to understand what Cruz was doing when he worked to get his delegates on the rules committee. I have read something here today giving some of the names of the rules committee that says the rules committee has Trump people on it and saying they will all be true to him. However, these people are not stupid and they can see now that Trump will not win, so I don't buy that all those will stay true to Trump. There are at least two on the committee that are actively working right now to get the delegates unbound.
I don't know what will happen, but we are sunk if Trump ends up the candidate.
-
Irritating as hell, isn't it. You might want to think on that a bit the next time you are tempted to cast that same stone.
And your link to 25 ways you know you are arguing with a liberal always gives me a smile. One of the items is "They use the term hater" - something that I've only ever seen Trump supporters do.
You are kidding me, right?
-
I agree, Mesaclone, we have a choice to make. And it is quite painful to conclude that Trump as President is worse than Clinton as President. But he is.
Trump's on the verge of claiming credit for Brexit. But the lesson of Brexit's victory is to present the issue with tact and seriousness, with the support of serious, credible leaders. That's how Brexit won. The public face of the issue wasn't a ludicrous clownshow.
Today, Trump did take credit for the Brexit win. He said it was his big win in the US that caused the Brexit win. Then, he said running the US is the same as running a golf club and he could do that better than anyone and he could build better than anyone.
He makes me want to throw up every time he opens his mouth.
@CatherineofAragon
-
Are you saying that the odds of getting 5 heads in a row are the same as getting 1 heads? I am talking about the "odds" of the same thing happening several times in a row based on the original comment.
I didn't say that. You initially said:
"If we're only playing odds, like the flip of a coin, a win or a non-win, then you are not correct. Odds of repeatedly landing on heads diminish with each flip. "
I stated the odds were the same for EACH FLIP using YOUR WORDS. And they are.
If you want odds of five heads in a row, then state that. But I will warn you that each individual flip has the same 50/50 chance for both outcomes.
IOW if you have already flipped twice for two heads, the next flip still has a 50/50 chance for both heads and tails.
-
I didn't say that. You initially said:
"If we're only playing odds, like the flip of a coin, a win or a non-win, then you are not correct. Odds of repeatedly landing on heads diminish with each flip. "
I stated the odds were the same for EACH FLIP using YOUR WORDS. And they are.
If you want odds of five heads in a row, then state that. But I will warn you that each individual flip has the same 50/50 chance for both outcomes.
IOW if you have already flipped twice for two heads, the next flip still has a 50/50 chance for both heads and tails.
Whatev. We're arguing about the same thing now. Please refer back to the original comment (was it you that even made it? I can't remember anymore.) regarding the "odds" of being correct going up because of already being correct several times in a row. The part of my statement you should have bolded was the word "repeatedly". Have a good one.
-
Today, Trump did take credit for the Brexit win. He said it was his big win in the US that caused the Brexit win. Then, he said running the US is the same as running a golf club and he could do that better than anyone and he could build better than anyone.
He makes me want to throw up every time he opens his mouth.
@CatherineofAragon
He's a narcissistic boob! Bill and Hillary are laughing themselves sick behind the scenes!
-
He's a narcissistic boob! Bill and Hillary are laughing themselves sick behind the scenes!
Someone else is there, laughing right along with them.
-
Do you think the GOP will avoid an epic disaster if it steals the nomination from Trump? That would be a far worse tragedy of irrecoverable proportions.
More and more delegates are wanting to vote their conscious; there is now a court case pending. Hopefully it will be ruled upon before the convention. Nothing has been stolen. Nothing will be stolen. A far worse tragedy would be to allow either an orange buffoon or a criminal to take the presidential oath of office. :patriot:
-
@Mesaclone
Nope. This isn't a banana republic where someone gets to tell me I MUST vote for so-and-so and there's nothing to be done about it. NO ONE instructs me on what to do with my vote. It belongs to no one else; I do not owe it to anyone. It must be earned. Neither Trump or Clinton have done anything to earn it, nor will they. I would not in my wildest dreams consider voting for either of them. That's MY choice. How do you like it?
I know it's hard for you folks, only now coming up against a wall of cold, hard reality, but we meant it when we told you we wouldn't vote for Clinton or for her good buddy and donor. I guess you're going to have to get used to it, or not. But all the begging and tantruming in the world isn't going to change it.
Strawman. Nobody has told you how to vote. All I've told you is what the available choices are. If I hand you a dime and say to flip it up in the air and guess how it turns up...you have two choices, not because I'm dictating that to you, but because those are the available options. Now, you could argue that you'd rather predict the coin ends up standing on its side...perhaps a one in a million shot...but that would be ludicrous. Even so, nobody has told you that you are not free to predict such an absurdity. So you can quit feigning that anyone is trying to tell you how you MUST vote...no, this discussion is about the wisdom of your vote. And that is what political discourse is about.
As for meaning it when you said you'd never vote Trump, so many NeverTrumps repeat that assertion as if its an ultimatum they gave to every Republican not part of their fringe Cruz movement. Well guess what, you don't get to issue ultimatums to other party voters...or perhaps you can, but they carry no weight. None of us get to play the..."you chaps better vote for my guy or me and my pals will sabotage whoever it is the majority of you nominate instead...if we lose, we're going to make sure the whole country loses". This would be equally true, of course, if a Trump supporter kept repeating they'd never vote for Cruz were he to be the nominee. This game of "my guy wins or I'm out" because I'm SO morally superior, is self destructive stupidity...and yes, its incredibly childish.
That's just not how party primaries work...unless, of course, you're an idiot and want to ensure your party loses every election. Because only an idiot would say "my way or the highway" in a party primary. Were that to become the common mantra of said party...it would ensure the loss of every single election it entered. Who would be dumb enough, and childish enough, to set up that kind of permanent and certain outcome?
As for how I "like" your choice...hmmm....I guess I like it as much as I'd like it if a five year old had a tantrum in the grocery store because they didn't get the exact kind of ice cream they wanted. That child's fury over getting chocolate fudge rather than chocolate with sparkles in it is no different than your current reaction. So I'd say it sucks, as do most demonstrations of selfish/childish behavior by adults. Worse, because in this case the childish behavior may result in 8 years of Democratic domination destroying most of the institutions...and restraints on institutions...that make this nation what it is. Your anger over not getting "sparkles in your ice cream" is going to result in the rest of us being force to eat a plate full of cold broccoli. Good job...I hope the joy of the tantrum is well worth it to you.
So the bottom line, of course, is that you and the other lemmings are free to continue toward the cliff...nobody is dictating that you not do so. Don't expect, however, that the rest of us will not let you know that the cliff is right in front of you and that your momentum risks dragging all of us over its edge with you.
-
You'll vote as you wish, no doubt.
That is qualitatively different....vastly different...than any argument that could be made concerning the policies of Mr Trump which ALSO come with a powerful party infrastructure that supports AND restrains his actionsl
Wait, are we talking about the same "powerful party infrastructure" that every conservative has gnashed his teeth over for the last eight years as it caved to Obama time and again? The same "powerful party structure" that Trump supporters have been calling to burn down? If Trump supporters get their way, there will be no GOP party structure left, it will have been burned down. Right? Isn't that what they wanted?
-
Wait, are we talking about the same "powerful party infrastructure" that every conservative has gnashed his teeth over for the last eight years as it caved to Obama time and again? The same "powerful party structure" that Trump supporters have been calling to burn down? If Trump supporters get their way, there will be no GOP party structure left, it will have been burned down. Right? Isn't that what they wanted?
The party power structure cannot overcome entirely the power of the Executive office, and nobody is arguing that these fellows have strong spines or the will to shut down government when needed. What they do have is the ability and will to rather easily rein in a president of their own party, who...just like a president on the Dem side...cannot achieve anything without his own party's support. Obama, for example, could have achieved nothing without the support of the Dem party....no Obamacare, no Sotomayor, no Kagan, no unrestrained immigration, no government expansion, etecetera. A president, on either side, is restrained by their own party's support structure...its just a fact of political life and trying to deny it is either willful ignorance or outright deception. This doesn't mean a president won't do or try things that some in his party disapprove of...they all obviously do that on occasion...but in general, president's are restrained to policy choices acceptable to the majority of their own party. Its not really a debateable point...unless you simply want to pointlessly argumentative.
As for what Trump supporters want...they want to reform the party not burn it down, and that is exactly what is starting to happen. They want the party structure to be responsive to GOP voters not GOP lobbyists. They want a party that is not held captive by any one faction within its ranks, but one that listens to all the voices in the tent. They want a party that is not afraid to buck political correctness and convention in the face of the Socialist nightmare that has taken over the Democratic party. Most of all, they want to reform the party so that it has appeal to a broader base of Americans, especially blue collar working Americans...and to appeal to people under 30 as well. None of this involves burning anything down, its more akin to upgrading the family's wood panel 1976 station wagon into a modern 2016 SUV. Similar purpose, better result and broader capability.
-
The party power structure cannot overcome entirely the power of the Executive office, and nobody is arguing that these fellows have strong spines or the will to shut down government when needed. What they do have is the ability and will to rather easily rein in a president of their own party, who...just like a president on the Dem side...cannot achieve anything without his own party's support. Obama, for example, could have achieved nothing without the support of the Dem party....no Obamacare, no Sotomayor, no Kagan, no unrestrained immigration, no government expansion, etecetera. A president, on either side, is restrained by their own party's support structure...its just a fact of political life and trying to deny it is either willful ignorance or outright deception. This doesn't mean a president won't do or try things that some in his party disapprove of...they all obviously do that on occasion...but in general, president's are restrained to policy choices acceptable to the majority of their own party. Its not really a debateable point...unless you simply want to pointlessly argumentative.
As for what Trump supporters want...they want to reform the party not burn it down, and that is exactly what is starting to happen. They want the party structure to be responsive to GOP voters not GOP lobbyists. They want a party that is not held captive by any one faction within its ranks, but one that listens to all the voices in the tent. They want a party that is not afraid to buck political correctness and convention in the face of the Socialist nightmare that has taken over the Democratic party. Most of all, they want to reform the party so that it has appeal to a broader base of Americans, especially blue collar working Americans...and to appeal to people under 30 as well. None of this involves burning anything down, its more akin to upgrading the family's wood panel 1976 station wagon into a modern 2016 SUV. Similar purpose, better result and broader capability.
So we're going to hope that all those establishment, GOPe types will a) survive election and retain control of the House and Senate and b) exert more control over a Donald Trump, president, than they have over Donald Trump, candidate. Right - just put my faith in the Drumpfmeister and the system. I thought part of the thrill of the Don was that he was a "deal maker." What's to stop him from crossing over and making deals with the (likely) increased number of Democrats in Congress if he really wants something passed that the GOP disagrees with? Whatever it takes to get the deal done, right? Then where does that precious party control come in? What's to stop him from using executive orders to enforce extra-constitutional desires? Obama's already paved the way with that one. What will congressional Republicans do then?
And re: "burn it down," I refer you to just a few examples:
1. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4gcxb8/burn_down_the_gop/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/4gcxb8/burn_down_the_gop/)
2. See the comments: http://girlsjustwannahaveguns.com/question-should-donald-trump-go-ahead-and-burn-the-gop-down/ (http://girlsjustwannahaveguns.com/question-should-donald-trump-go-ahead-and-burn-the-gop-down/)
3. http://marezilla.com/tag/burn-it-down/ (http://marezilla.com/tag/burn-it-down/)
And this was just a quick search of articles. I've been reading comments for months from Trump supporters calling for the GOP to be destroyed.
-
When you have thousands of people relying on you for their jobs you commit economic suicide when there is no need to do so at this time. Oh and stop insulting me calling me a liberal because I have real world experience and know what risk reward analysis is. I'm not the one helping to elect the democrat here.
I'll call you what your statements show you are. No more, no less. Don't like it? Stop giving me cause to speak the truth.
Your real world experience got us to the mess we're in today. You and the "Know betters" like you that know nothing but how to frig up a Republic.
-
I'll call you what your statements show you are. No more, no less. Don't like it? Stop giving me cause to speak the truth.
Your real world experience got us to the mess we're in today. You and the "Know betters" like you that know nothing but how to frig up a Republic.
look in the mirror and take the log out of your own eye, Obviously more conservative Christians agreed with me then you. I stand with the people who but for your tiny group's emotional opinion are known as conservatives. Seems its the anti's trying to do the "know better" here.
-
look in the mirror and take the log out of your own eye, Obviously more conservative Christians agreed with me then you. I stand with the people who but for your tiny group's emotional opinion are known as conservatives. Seems its the anti's trying to do the "know better" here.
Calling a dogs tail a leg doesn't make it one lib. No conservative, much less an actual Bible believing CHRISTIAN is going to elect a gay agenda backing, Tranny supporting adulterer.
-
Calling a dogs tail a leg doesn't make it one lib. No conservative, much less an actual Bible believing CHRISTIAN is going to elect a gay agenda backing, Tranny supporting adulterer.
Explain specifically how your actions do not help Hillary become President?
-
Explain specifically how your actions do not help Hillary become President?
Easy. Candidates I vote for are conservative. Since I do not vote for Hillary I am not responsible for her winning. Civics 101. Deal with it.
Candidates I vote for do not have personal audiences with Bill Clinton to discuss running for office.
Candidates I vote for do not have Clintons on guest lists or have ever uttered a word of praise for her.
Now YOU answer MY question. "Can YOU say the same?" We all know you cannot. So the liberal supporter here is you.
-
Easy. Candidates I vote for are conservative. Since I do not vote for Hillary I am not responsible for her winning. Civics 101. Deal with it.
Candidates I vote for do not have personal audiences with Bill Clinton to discuss running for office.
Candidates I vote for do not have Clintons on guest lists or have ever uttered a word of praise for her.
Now YOU answer MY question. "Can YOU say the same?" We all know you cannot. So the liberal supporter here is you.
It is noted you FAILED to answer the question.
-
It is noted you FAILED to answer the question.
It is so noted you lack the ability to read.
And the integrity to admit it.
-
It is so noted you lack the ability to read.
And the integrity to admit it.
The Question was:
"Explain specifically how your actions do not help Hillary become President?"
The actions include in part;
Attacking the Presumptive Republican Nominee,
Working to install a RINO at the convention,
Sabotaging the work of the largest number of voters for a candidate in any GOP primary ever,
Attacking KNOWN good conservatives who honestly believe they are doing the right thing;
Aligning with and using far left anti-American forces;
Knowing any action to replace Trump at the Convention will result in a massive loss for the GOP in November worse then anything you think can happen with Trump.
Etc.
-
Attacking KNOWN good conservatives who honestly believe they are doing the right thing;
First I clearly answered you in the opening of my post. That you cant read is not my problem.
You are not known at all. you are an anonymous name posting on the internet, getting caught lying regularly about your opponents and backing a lifetime liberal for office.
That makes you a liberal by definition. Deal with it.
-
First I clearly answered you in the opening of my post. That you cant read is not my problem.
You are not known at all. you are an anonymous name posting on the internet, getting caught lying regularly about your opponents and backing a lifetime liberal for office.
That makes you a liberal by definition. Deal with it.
Notice none of the actions listed had anything to do with how you were voting. So No you tried to change the subject and got busted. You have not answered the question asked.
-
Please refrain from calling POSTERS here liberals!
That goes for both sides.
We consider that and RINO, personal attacks.
Your opinion is not fact!
-
The Question was:
"Explain specifically how your actions do not help Hillary become President?"
The actions include in part;
Attacking the Presumptive Republican Nominee,
Working to install a RINO at the convention,
Sabotaging the work of the largest number of voters for a candidate in any GOP primary ever,
Attacking KNOWN good conservatives who honestly believe they are doing the right thing;
Aligning with and using far left anti-American forces;
Knowing any action to replace Trump at the Convention will result in a massive loss for the GOP in November worse then anything you think can happen with Trump.
Etc.
@Mechanicos give you a lot of credit @Norm Lenhart . I did not realize the influence you had over the RNC and republican electors. You are a political god!
-
Strawman. Nobody has told you how to vote. All I've told you is what the available choices are. If I hand you a dime and say to flip it up in the air and guess how it turns up...you have two choices, not because I'm dictating that to you, but because those are the available options. Now, you could argue that you'd rather predict the coin ends up standing on its side...perhaps a one in a million shot...but that would be ludicrous. Even so, nobody has told you that you are not free to predict such an absurdity. So you can quit feigning that anyone is trying to tell you how you MUST vote...no, this discussion is about the wisdom of your vote. And that is what political discourse is about.
As for meaning it when you said you'd never vote Trump, so many NeverTrumps repeat that assertion as if its an ultimatum they gave to every Republican not part of their fringe Cruz movement. Well guess what, you don't get to issue ultimatums to other party voters...or perhaps you can, but they carry no weight. None of us get to play the..."you chaps better vote for my guy or me and my pals will sabotage whoever it is the majority of you nominate instead...if we lose, we're going to make sure the whole country loses". This would be equally true, of course, if a Trump supporter kept repeating they'd never vote for Cruz were he to be the nominee. This game of "my guy wins or I'm out" because I'm SO morally superior, is self destructive stupidity...and yes, its incredibly childish.
That's just not how party primaries work...unless, of course, you're an idiot and want to ensure your party loses every election. Because only an idiot would say "my way or the highway" in a party primary. Were that to become the common mantra of said party...it would ensure the loss of every single election it entered. Who would be dumb enough, and childish enough, to set up that kind of permanent and certain outcome?
As for how I "like" your choice...hmmm....I guess I like it as much as I'd like it if a five year old had a tantrum in the grocery store because they didn't get the exact kind of ice cream they wanted. That child's fury over getting chocolate fudge rather than chocolate with sparkles in it is no different than your current reaction. So I'd say it sucks, as do most demonstrations of selfish/childish behavior by adults. Worse, because in this case the childish behavior may result in 8 years of Democratic domination destroying most of the institutions...and restraints on institutions...that make this nation what it is. Your anger over not getting "sparkles in your ice cream" is going to result in the rest of us being force to eat a plate full of cold broccoli. Good job...I hope the joy of the tantrum is well worth it to you.
So the bottom line, of course, is that you and the other lemmings are free to continue toward the cliff...nobody is dictating that you not do so. ]b]Don't expect, however, that the rest of us will not let you know that the cliff is right in front of you and that your momentum risks dragging all of us over its edge with you.[/b]
It is just condescending garbage like this that reinforces #NeverTrump. YOU pimped and pushed this sonofabitch and saddled the rest of us with him and now you want to drag US over the cliff.
Every poll shows a consistent 20% of voters will not vote for Trump or Hillary. Don't look for that to change. We know who Hillary is and we know who Trump is, and the dogs are not going to eat that vomit.
-
give you a lot of credit @Norm Lenhart . I did not realize the influence you had over the RNC and republican electors. You are a political god!
Clever and funny reply RoosGirl. TBR is blessed to have you posting here.
-
You are not known at all. you are an anonymous name posting on the internet, getting caught lying regularly about your opponents and backing a lifetime liberal for office.
That makes you a liberal by definition. Deal with it.
I take that to mean that if you support a liberal, you're a conservative. But if you don't support said liberal, you're a liberal, because you're effectively voting for a liberal.
I'll retire to Bedlam.
-
Clever and funny reply RoosGirl. TBR is blessed to have you posting here.
Well I thank you for that kindness. I am a little afraid of the ego stoking that @Norm Lenhart will receive from that comment. ;)
-
Well I thank you for that kindness. I am a little afraid of the ego stoking that @Norm Lenhart will receive from that comment. ;)
Nah, I know I'm awesome. Hell people were once gonna build golden statues to my predictive prowess till I nixed the idea ;)
@CatherineofAragon can provide the details as I am too humble (FREAKINGLY AWESOMELY HUMBLE!) to provide them myself ;) (Handsome too...)
-
You'll vote as you wish, no doubt.
When last I looked, that was the right of everyone on this board and in the country.
But feigning some sort of equivalence between the two candidates is not rational...and its rather childish. They are not two icebergs as in the analogy, at best you could argue an iceberg vs a moderately large wave...as the impacts of putting one of the two in the White House are RADICALLY different. You may think both are bad...but they are not in proximity in such a spectrum. One brings a wildly left wing agenda AND a party infrastructure that will work to impose that radical ideology on our government...and thus the nation. That is qualitatively different....vastly different...than any argument that could be made concerning the policies of Mr Trump which ALSO come with a powerful party infrastructure that supports AND restrains his actionsl
They have in common the thing that matters most to me: neither one of them, based
on the record to date, stands in any way, shape, or form against the further metastasis of
government power. One is indeed a wild leftist, I don't deny that and I have never wished
Hilarious Rodent Clinton's hand on any lever of power, but the other is wild, period. Neither
of them will do a thing to reduce government power by even a single degree, and unless it
has suddenly become a crime to think so I am just as wary of rightward statism as I have
always been of leftward statism. (The day anyone or anything can "restrain" Donaldus Minimus,
whose every utterance to date indicates an abject disregard for any restraining prescription to
be found in what remains of the Constitution, may well be the day hell freezes over, after all.)
I do know, too, that it came to this despicable choice because other more responsible people
in the appropriate positions did little to nothing to arrest the metastasis of government power
and the erosion of properly construed law, as witness the era of His Excellency Al-Hashish
Field Marshmallow Dr. Barack Obama Dada, COD, RIP, LSMFT, Would-Have-Been Life President
of the Republic Formerly Known as the United States, a man who has made his most
recalcitrant leftward predecessors resemble pikers when it comes to executive presumptuousness.
I believe in freedom.
I believe in individual rights and responsibilities.
And, I believe in a properly-construed government---a government which, other than
protecting us and defending us against enemies actual and provably iminent, has only
one legitimate business: staying the hell out of your business, my business,
everyone's business, until or unless one would obstruct or abrogate another's equivalent
rights.
Neither Donaldus Minimus nor Hilarious Rodent Clinton believe in those things. And
I'm not quite so trusting of any current third-party aspirant's belief in them based on the
record as it has been to this point.
So my vote will remain none of the above.
-
Nah, I know I'm awesome. Hell people were oncw gonna build golden statues to my predictive prowess till I nixed the idea ;)
@CatherineofAragon can provide the details as I am too humble (FREAKINGLY AWESOMELY HUMBLE!) to provide them myself ;) (Handsome too...)
Hmm...seems you're not the only one with predictive prowess. ;)
-
Hmm...seems you're not the only one with predictive prowess. ;)
Nope, there's others for sure. But I'm too modest to say how incredibly phenomenal my brand of it is. ;)
-
Strawman. Nobody has told you how to vote. All I've told you is what the available choices are. If I hand you a dime and say to flip it up in the air and guess how it turns up...you have two choices, not because I'm dictating that to you, but because those are the available options. Now, you could argue that you'd rather predict the coin ends up standing on its side...perhaps a one in a million shot...but that would be ludicrous. Even so, nobody has told you that you are not free to predict such an absurdity. So you can quit feigning that anyone is trying to tell you how you MUST vote...no, this discussion is about the wisdom of your vote. And that is what political discourse is about.
As for meaning it when you said you'd never vote Trump, so many NeverTrumps repeat that assertion as if its an ultimatum they gave to every Republican not part of their fringe Cruz movement. Well guess what, you don't get to issue ultimatums to other party voters...or perhaps you can, but they carry no weight. None of us get to play the..."you chaps better vote for my guy or me and my pals will sabotage whoever it is the majority of you nominate instead...if we lose, we're going to make sure the whole country loses". This would be equally true, of course, if a Trump supporter kept repeating they'd never vote for Cruz were he to be the nominee. This game of "my guy wins or I'm out" because I'm SO morally superior, is self destructive stupidity...and yes, its incredibly childish.
That's just not how party primaries work...unless, of course, you're an idiot and want to ensure your party loses every election. Because only an idiot would say "my way or the highway" in a party primary. Were that to become the common mantra of said party...it would ensure the loss of every single election it entered. Who would be dumb enough, and childish enough, to set up that kind of permanent and certain outcome?
As for how I "like" your choice...hmmm....I guess I like it as much as I'd like it if a five year old had a tantrum in the grocery store because they didn't get the exact kind of ice cream they wanted. That child's fury over getting chocolate fudge rather than chocolate with sparkles in it is no different than your current reaction. So I'd say it sucks, as do most demonstrations of selfish/childish behavior by adults. Worse, because in this case the childish behavior may result in 8 years of Democratic domination destroying most of the institutions...and restraints on institutions...that make this nation what it is. Your anger over not getting "sparkles in your ice cream" is going to result in the rest of us being force to eat a plate full of cold broccoli. Good job...I hope the joy of the tantrum is well worth it to you.
So the bottom line, of course, is that you and the other lemmings are free to continue toward the cliff...nobody is dictating that you not do so. Don't expect, however, that the rest of us will not let you know that the cliff is right in front of you and that your momentum risks dragging all of us over its edge with you.
Oh, stop it, Mesaclone..."nobody has told you how to vote." That was the purpose of your entire post; outlining the differences, as you imagine, between Clinton and Trump, and finishing up with, "Pick the guy who will give you Conservative justices and fix immigration...or...go for the gal who will give Liberal justices and 10's of millions of new immigrant citizens via amnesty. Or don't vote...or vote 3rd party...but know that HOW you vote, and whoever you vote for, will help determine if either Hillary Clinton and the Democrats...or...Donald Trump and the Republicans win this election. Your choice, of course."
It's funny that you say my choice is hurting the party, when Trump supporters are the ones who wanted to blow up the GOP from the beginning. I'm not into the "burn-it-down" thing, myself, but neither do I vote based on party. I'm a conservative, not a GOPer.
You say I don't comprehend the policies that Trump is advocating. Your error is that you don't understand Trump. If you believe that a 70 year-old lifelong liberal suddenly pulled a 180 on all of his views and stances just in time to run for president, well...let's just say that Trump has always counted on the gullible to put him ahead.
You say I'm a deluded fool for believing Trump is a liberal, but I'll stress the above point one more time. I'll add that Trump doesn't have a single accomplishment for the cause of conservatism under his belt. What you have is a world-class con man who's telling his eager marks everything they want to hear...except, that is, when he makes a slip that reveals his core liberalism (which happens about once a week). But he walks it back, and his fans pretend they never heard it. That's deliberate, willful self-delusion...all because you can't bear to face the truth about Trump.
The only "mirage" here is Trump the brave, conservative patriot. The delegate revolt may or may not happen; at this point I don't much care, to be truthful with you. You go right ahead and support that sleazy. lying liberal con artist, but understand that all the tantrums in the world won't budge those of us who are #NeverTrump. Understand, also, that setting us up to blame for Trump's loss as you see his abysmal numbers, and as he begins to fall apart, just won't wash. You wanted your half-bright reality show star, and you got him. Own it.
-
Nah, I know I'm awesome. Hell people were once gonna build golden statues to my predictive prowess till I nixed the idea ;)
@CatherineofAragon can provide the details as I am too humble (FREAKINGLY AWESOMELY HUMBLE!) to provide them myself ;) (Handsome too...)
See, @RoosGirl? You were concerned that Norm's ego would be stroked. See how WRONG you were?
*Cough*
-
Today, Trump did take credit for the Brexit win. He said it was his big win in the US that caused the Brexit win. Then, he said running the US is the same as running a golf club and he could do that better than anyone and he could build better than anyone.
He makes me want to throw up every time he opens his mouth.
@CatherineofAragon
LOL, come sit by me...
-
Yes, it was my experience with state politics and how conventions worked and being at a number of them, that allowed me to understand what Cruz was doing when he worked to get his delegates on the rules committee. I have read something here today giving some of the names of the rules committee that says the rules committee has Trump people on it and saying they will all be true to him. However, these people are not stupid and they can see now that Trump will not win, so I don't buy that all those will stay true to Trump. There are at least two on the committee that are actively working right now to get the delegates unbound.
I don't know what will happen, but we are sunk if Trump ends up the candidate.
Well, at least we'll be able to sleep at night knowing we didn't help facilitate it. I agree that Trump will be a disaster.
-
See, @RoosGirl? You were concerned that Norm's ego would be stroked. See how WRONG you were?
*Cough*
Don't worry, there's PLENTY of my ego for everyone!
The truly awesome thing is when the history books are written, you'll be able to print out all the posts I made and ebay them as historical documents of my awesome. You can say...
"I knew him before the world understood what a truly great man he was."
/Meekness personified
-
Well, at least we'll be able to sleep at night knowing we didn't help facilitate it.
When the SHTF, that will be a valuable thing for us to be known by. For the Trump cultists, they have their self inflicted Mark of Cain to deal with.
-
Don't worry, there's PLENTY of my ego for everyone!
The truly awesome thing is when the history books are written, you'll be able to print out all the posts I made and ebay them as historical documents of my awesome. You can say...
"I knew him before the world understood what a truly great man he was."
/Meekness personified
I'm sure they will point to this exact thread and call it "The Awakening".
-
I'm sure they will point to this exact thread and call it "The Awakening".
Not terribly original but I suppose it will do. It is, afterall, hard for the normals to try and grasp the awesome that is 'Normie' and put it into words. Sorta like plants trying to do quantum mechanics.
People, if they weren't too in awe of my awesome to ask, would probably ask me if I see further because I stood on the shoulders of giants. And to be honest, thats a natural question to ask as my level of brilliance has to come from somewhere other than myself. And of course it does. It comes from God. Personally. ;)
But enough about that...lets talk about me.
-
Don't worry, there's PLENTY of my ego for everyone!
The truly awesome thing is when the history books are written, you'll be able to print out all the posts I made and ebay them as historical documents of my awesome. You can say...
"I knew him before the world understood what a truly great man he was."
/Meekness personified
(http://www.makealivingwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/photodune-9036759-casual-businesswoman-resting-head-on-desk-in-the-office-xs-300x199.jpg)
-
(http://www.makealivingwriting.com/wp-content/uploads/photodune-9036759-casual-businesswoman-resting-head-on-desk-in-the-office-xs-300x199.jpg)
Don't feel bad Kat. Not the first time women have fainted when realizing the profoundness of my words.
Might be my stunning good looks though. You never can tell.
-
Not terribly original but I suppose it will do. It is, afterall, hard for the normals to try and grasp the awesome that is 'Normie' and put it into words. Sorta like plants trying to do quantum mechanics.
People, if they weren't too in awe of my awesome to ask, would probably ask me if I see further because I stood on the shoulders of giants. And to be honest, thats a natural question to ask as my level of brilliance has to come from somewhere other than myself. And of course it does. It comes from God. Personally. ;)
But enough about that...lets talk about me.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xx02saYojbw/T4No6ZPDZyI/AAAAAAAAGYg/dQ8ebZF1d10/s1600/ego.jpg)
-
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xx02saYojbw/T4No6ZPDZyI/AAAAAAAAGYg/dQ8ebZF1d10/s1600/ego.jpg)
Hell, with an ego like this, I should dye myself orange and Run against Hillary...
Oh wait. Nevermind ;)
-
Irritating as hell, isn't it. You might want to think on that a bit the next time you are tempted to cast that same stone.
And your link to 25 ways you know you are arguing with a liberal always gives me a smile. One of the items is "They use the term hater" - something that I've only ever seen Trump supporters do.
Trump supporters need to learn that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. This tearing up and trashing any conservative that has disagreements with Trump will not win him or you any favors.eg FR is saying horrible things about Scott Walker,. He will be voting f or Cruz since Cruz won the Wisconsin primary. Walker said delegates should "vote their conscience". These bone-headed Trumpsters are driving voters away. ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep****
-
Trump supporters need to learn that you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. This tearing up and trashing any conservative that has disagreements with Trump will not win him or you any favors.eg FR is saying horrible things about Scott Walker,. He will be voting f or Cruz since Cruz won the Wisconsin primary. Walker said delegates should "vote their conscience". These bone-headed Trumpsters are driving voters away. ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep****
The Trump fanatics have often stated things like "principle is the problem", Have said they are "Sick of Social Conservatives and Bible Thumpers" and condemn anyone that refuses to vote for a proven liberal.
Some of the more gentile people here like to delude themselves that these are simply misguided individuals who want what we want, but see things differently.
The evidence shows they hate the very things America was founded on. That's not a personal attack. That's not Normie going on an Anti-Trump rant. It is the very words as shown above, of Trump fanatics PROVING IT.
They don't want Hillary. They want THEIR OWN LIBERAL who is on record as anti 2A, Pro Abortion, Pro Homosexual, Anti religious Freedom, Pro taxation and dozens of other positions that were anathema to the so called 'right' until Trump ran for office.
If you notice, the strongest vocal backers of the Orangeman were ALSO the strongest vocal backers of the last hard left liberal the GOP had as their standard bearer. Romney. They were also at the forefront of defending the actions of Bhoner and Mitch when it came time to reelect them.
Every action they have taken has ensured the continued rocket powered flight to the left of the GOP.
Every word of that is factual as shown by their very own public comments here and elsewhere. The result will be the loss of this election and the further advancement of liberalism in whats left of America (thanks to their political choices).
They WANT liberalism. That's what the facts show. So it makes complete sense they fling such utter hatred at actual conservatives. We are all that stands in the gap between them and the final nail in America's coffin.
-
Don't feel bad Kat. Not the first time women have fainted when realizing the profoundness of my words.
Might be my stunning good looks though. You never can tell.
Um...Norm? I need some help over here...
(http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/157888/157888,1278805770,1/stock-photo-woman-holding-frying-pan-for-cooking-in-the-hand-56912593.jpg)
-
It is just condescending garbage like this that reinforces #NeverTrump. YOU pimped and pushed this sonofabitch and saddled the rest of us with him and now you want to drag US over the cliff.
Every poll shows a consistent 20% of voters will not vote for Trump or Hillary. Don't look for that to change. We know who Hillary is and we know who Trump is, and the dogs are not going to eat that vomit.
There is only one remaining path to NOT having Hillary Clinton be president....and that path's name is Donald Trump. Trump may not be as conservative as you'd like, but by ANY rational measure he is vastly more conservative than Mrs. Clinton. A blind squirrel could discern the political mileage between them...they are in diametrically opposed positions on nearly every issue. Therefore, not working to ensure he defeats her....is the path that leads to the cliff....and if you couldn't figure it out for yourself, the "cliff" is a metaphor for Hillary winning. This isn't trigonometry, sinkspur, its basic 1+1=2.
Nevertrump crowd has substituted feeling for thought, anger for analysis, hyperbole for explication, and fantasy for reality....which is why its so easy for them to ignore the consequence of their approach to this election. They aren't just "not supporting the GOP nominee", they are actively taking steps to undermine his candidacy and ensure Hillary Clinton becomes our next president. Should their actions bear fruit, they will have succeeded in making themselves and the candidates they are likely to support in the future...say a Ted Cruz...anathema to the majority of the Republican party. Its so self defeating as to be madness, yet there is little doubt they will persist in their own destruction as an element in the GOP.
-
Um...Norm? I need some help over here...
(http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/157888/157888,1278805770,1/stock-photo-woman-holding-frying-pan-for-cooking-in-the-hand-56912593.jpg)
Oh no need to dirty that pan on some roast beef for my sammich. It's the weekend! take a break! Cold roast beef is fine. No onions/mayo.
/Considerate of others
-
There is only one remaining path to NOT having Hillary Clinton be president....and that path's name is Donald Trump.
Since that statement is a flat out lie based on American civics, which in theory, you understand, the rest of your post, and to be frank, anything you say, has no value to conservatives or conservatism at all. Obviously someone with a stated disdain for Social Conservatives and 'Bible thumpers," as you have pointed out in past threads here, prefers your liberals with an R and any opinion you offer must be viewed though that prism.
-
The Trump fanatics have often stated things like "principle is the problem", Have said they are "Sick of Social Conservatives and Bible Thumpers" and condemn anyone that refuses to vote for a proven liberal. I applaud anyone who refuses to vote for a proven liberal, the problem is that you are deluded in thinking that Mr. Trump is a liberal...if in doubt, ask anyone on the American Left, as they are freaking out because they see him as a deeply reactionary conservative.
Some of the more gentile people here like to delude themselves that these are simply misguided individuals who want what we want, but see things differently.That depends on what it is that you want. We Trump supporters want smaller and better government, lower taxes, stronger foreign policy, hardcore border enforcement, a strong military,a defender of the Bill of Rights, respect for state's rights, a leader who understands the president is not a king, and we want a leader who is not afraid of political correctness. Donald Trump embodies all of those views.
The evidence shows they hate the very things America was founded on. That's not a personal attack. That's not Normie going on an Anti-Trump rant. It is the very words as shown above, of Trump fanatics PROVING IT. America was founded on the principle of limited government and individual liberty...things every Trump supporter holds dear, which means you are clueless...evidently...as to what the nation was founded upon.
They don't want Hillary. They want THEIR OWN LIBERAL who is on record as anti 2A, Pro Abortion, Pro Homosexual, Anti religious Freedom, Pro taxation and dozens of other positions that were anathema to the so called 'right' until Trump ran for office. You cite positions Mr. Trump does not hold, nor has he advocated for in this election. You seek to pull out previously held views that are no longer his view on the stated issues...so essentially, you are lying.
If you notice, the strongest vocal backers of the Orangeman were ALSO the strongest vocal backers of the last hard left liberal the GOP had as their standard bearer. Romney. They were also at the forefront of defending the actions of Bhoner and Mitch when it came time to reelect them. On the contrary, we are the people who had to hold our nose and vote for Romney...evidenced by Romney and his supporters (well...you) deeply opposing Mr. Trump's current candidacy. It is you Romney-ites and Bushies...and a fringe of crazy Cruz'rs...who are doing everything you can to stop Trump and put Hillary in office.
Every action they have taken has ensured the continued rocket powered flight to the left of the GOP. The only thing soaring into flight is a flight of fancy on your part. It is true that most of us oppose religious "litmus tests" for GOP candidates...but that is strongly in keeping with the Founding Fathers and our founding principles.
Every word of that is factual as shown by their very own public comments here and elsewhere. The result will be the loss of this election and the further advancement of liberalism in whats left of America (thanks to their political choices).No, the only thing "shown" is your interpretation...or rather, misinterpretation...of Mr. Trump and of the views of those who support him.
They WANT liberalism. That's what the facts show. So it makes complete sense they fling such utter hatred at actual conservatives. We are all that stands in the gap between them and the final nail in America's coffin. There are no such facts, just a set of your unsupported and absurd views as to what others want. None of us want liberalism, and the very purpose of Mr. Trump's candidacy is opposition to liberal political correctness and the collectivist/globalist madness that has seized not only the Dem party....but YOUR Romney-Bush wing of our very own GOP.
You're wearing blinders, walking in a deep fog, with your eyes closed....as that is the only way in which you could of come up with your list of what you "think" Trump supporters believe and want. Open your eyes, man...see things for what they are, not what your "feelings" dictate they should be.
-
You're wearing blinders, walking in a deep fog, with your eyes closed....as that is the only way in which you could of come up with your list of what you "think" Trump supporters believe and want. Open your eyes, man...see things for what they are, not what your "feelings" dictate they should be.
Trump has a history that is there for all to see. that history is filled with liberal support, liberal positions and liberal statements. If you choose to spread the lie that Trump is not a liberal when anyone can type "Trump Liberal" into any search engine and be inundated with examples of his liberalism, that does not help Trump. It only makes more people aware of your dishonesty.
Edit: "Trump is a liberal" typed into Google returned About 46,300,000 results (0.51 seconds). clearly I am not alone in my understanding of his political leanings.
Edit 2: RCP shows Trump got 13,300,472 votes. There are roughly about 4 times less than people discussing his actual liberal political orientation.
-
Trump has a history that is there for all to see. that history is filled with liberal support, liberal positions and liberal statements. If you choose to spread the lie that Trump is not a liberal when anyone can type "Trump Liberal" into any search engine and be inundated with examples of his liberalism, that does not help Trump. It only makes more people aware of your dishonesty.
As for my opposition to bible thumpers (which, mind you is not an opposition to Christianity in any way) and their "litmus tests"...I stand with Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,
“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams
I have the deepest respect for those who live a Christian life, as I do for those who hold to the tenets of Hinduism (such Gandhi) or of Buddhism. Deeply held religious belief is a "holy" thing in my view, and brings much joy into the world. However, religion used to pick who should and should not be in politics/leadership...or religion used to condemn or attack others for their views...is destructive of freedom and democracy.
-
There is only one remaining path to NOT having Hillary Clinton be president....and that path's name is Donald Trump. Trump may not be as conservative as you'd like, but by ANY rational measure he is vastly more conservative than Mrs. Clinton. A blind squirrel could discern the political mileage between them...they are in diametrically opposed positions on nearly every issue. Therefore, not working to ensure he defeats her....is the path that leads to the cliff....and if you couldn't figure it out for yourself, the "cliff" is a metaphor for Hillary winning. This isn't trigonometry, sinkspur, its basic 1+1=2.
Nevertrump crowd has substituted feeling for thought, anger for analysis, hyperbole for explication, and fantasy for reality....which is why its so easy for them to ignore the consequence of their approach to this election. They aren't just "not supporting the GOP nominee", they are actively taking steps to undermine his candidacy and ensure Hillary Clinton becomes our next president. Should their actions bear fruit, they will have succeeded in making themselves and the candidates they are likely to support in the future...say a Ted Cruz...anathema to the majority of the Republican party. Its so self defeating as to be madness, yet there is little doubt they will persist in their own destruction as an element in the GOP.
To date the polling data has shown that NEITHER Trump, nor Clinton, can get 50% of the likely voters OR 270 Electoral College votes. Don't know if either will get there. With at least 20 percent of the electorate NeverTrump AND NeverHillary, both will have a difficult time winning a majority. If the 3rd parties can glue together enough votes in some districts. they could in all likelihood throw the election to the new Congress. If the Senate goes over to the Dems, they get to choose Hillary's VP. The House, who knows.
-
To date the polling data has shown that NEITHER Trump, nor Clinton, can get 50% of the likely voters OR 270 Electoral College votes. Don't know if either will get there. With at least 20 percent of the electorate NeverTrump AND NeverHillary, both will have a difficult time winning a majority. If the 3rd parties can glue together enough votes in some districts. they could in all likelihood throw the election to the new Congress. If the Senate goes over to the Dems, they get to choose Hillary's VP. The House, who knows.
There is ZERO polling that shows one of the two are unlikely to attain 270. On the contrary, there is not a single state in which one of the two are not certain to win the electoral votes at stake...and there is no state in which a 3rd candidate is polling in a way that shows they have ANY chance at winning electoral votes. A plurality wins a state...all of the state in nearly every case. So I'd love to see what polling you are referring to.
Nobody needs to get 50%...or even close to it. Clinton won in a landslide in 1992 with just 43% of the vote...so again, would love to see why you think 50% has anything to do with the election outcome.
-
As for my opposition to bible thumpers (which, mind you is not an opposition to Christianity in any way) and their "litmus tests"...I stand with Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,
“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams
I have the deepest respect for those who live a Christian life, as I do for those who hold to the tenets of Hinduism (such Gandhi) or of Buddhism. Deeply held religious belief is a "holy" thing in my view, and brings much joy into the world. However, religion used to pick who should and should not be in politics/leadership...or religion used to condemn or attack others for their views...is destructive of freedom and democracy.
Spare us your hypocrisy. You already demonstrated you can't be trusted to honestly portray any situation that goes against the advance of your liberal candidate. And your comments on "Bible Thumpers" were not a singular occurrence.
-
Spare us your hypocrisy. You already demonstrated you can't be trusted to honestly portray any situation that goes against the advance of your liberal candidate. And your comments on "Bible Thumpers" were not a singular occurrence.
There is zero hypocrisy in anything I wrote. Your opinion on trustworthiness is akin to a thief's view on stealing. As for bible thumper comments, who said it was a singular occurrence. I've state repeatedly I dislike bible thumpers...and that I deeply respect genuine Christians and those of other faiths. So your point about a single occurrence is odd at best.
-
There is zero hypocrisy in anything I wrote. Your opinion on trustworthiness is akin to a thief's view on stealing. As for bible thumper comments, who said it was a singular occurrence. I've state repeatedly I dislike bible thumpers...and that I deeply respect genuine Christians and those of other faiths. So your point about a single occurrence is odd at best.
Considering this is coming from a guy that began this tiff with an outright fabrication, I'll take my chances that readers can decide which one of us lacks any integrity.
-
There is ZERO polling that shows one of the two are unlikely to attain 270. On the contrary, there is not a single state in which one of the two are not certain to win the electoral votes at stake...and there is no state in which a 3rd candidate is polling in a way that shows they have ANY chance at winning electoral votes. A plurality wins a state...all of the state in nearly every case. So I'd love to see what polling you are referring to.
Nobody needs to get 50%...or even close to it. Clinton won in a landslide in 1992 with just 43% of the vote...so again, would love to see why you think 50% has anything to do with the election outcome.
So how 'bout this?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map.html
-
Considering this is coming from a guy that began this tiff with an outright fabrication, I'll take my chances that readers can decide which one of us lacks any integrity.
The only fabrications are those in your imagination...they certainly have not come from me. As for what readers will think, your fellow NeverTrumps will applaud your blindness, sharing in its blissful obeisance to misinformation and misperception. Others will be more...rational.
-
The only fabrications are those in your imagination...they certainly have not come from me. As for what readers will think, your fellow NeverTrumps will applaud your blindness, sharing in its blissful obeisance to misinformation and misperception. Others will be more...rational.
You began this tiff with one. Now you lie about that too.
-
So how 'bout this?
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/2016_elections_electoral_college_map.html
That's a map showing which states are locked up for each side, and which are contested. In none of the contested states, is anyone other than Clinton or Trump competitive in polling. So one or the other will win each of those states. Unless you can show polling in a state in which someone other than those two is competitive, your link simply makes the point I made to you above. It certainly doesn't support the idea of nobody getting to 270...as the ONLY way that happens is if a 3rd party actually WINS a state. As of now, they can't even hit double digits in those competitive states.
-
You began this tiff with one. Now you lie about that too.
Your point about fabrication is so childish and unsupported, that I don't even know what it is you are referring to...unless it is your OPINION that Trump is a liberal. Now, if you are trying to say your opinions are the same as facts...well...that would say a LOT about you, and nothing good. But it certainly wouldn't support your silly assertion about a fabrication.
-
Your point about fabrication is so childish and unsupported, that I don't even know what it is you are referring to...unless it is your OPINION that Trump is a liberal. Now, if you are trying to say your opinions are the same as facts...well...that would say a LOT about you, and nothing good. But it certainly wouldn't support your silly assertion about a fabrication.
Whatever it takes to get you through the day I guess. The rest of us can see your words for what they are.
-
That's a map showing which states are locked up for each side, and which are contested. In none of the contested states, is anyone other than Clinton or Trump competitive in polling. So one or the other will win each of those states. Unless you can show polling in a state in which someone other than those two is competitive, your link simply makes the point I made to you above. It certainly doesn't support the idea of nobody getting to 270...as the ONLY way that happens is if a 3rd party actually WINS a state. As of now, they can't even hit double digits in those competitive states.
So Trump is going to collect 106 of the 163 tossups to get to 270? Call me foolish, but I don't think so. Hillary has a better shot, but that doesn't mean we have to vote for Trump.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." -- John Wayne
-
Whatever it takes to get you through the day I guess. The rest of us can see your words for what they are.
What gets me through the day...at least this day...is letting your own words tie you up like a pretzel. It requires little more from me than to simply let you rant away.
-
So Trump is going to collect 106 of the 163 tossups to get to 270? Call me foolish, but I don't think so. Hillary has a better shot, but that doesn't mean we have to vote for Trump.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." -- John Wayne
I'm not telling you which one will do what. What I'm telling you is that one or the other is guaranteed to get over 270. That can only fail to happen if someone other than the two of them wins a state.
So please, tell me which state that is and which 3rd party candidate is polling in such a way in that state as to indicate they will win it? Absent that, Clinton or Trump get over 270...anything else is mathematically impossible.
-
When last I looked, that was the right of everyone on this board and in the country.
They have in common the thing that matters most to me: neither one of them, based
on the record to date, stands in any way, shape, or form against the further metastasis of
government power. One is indeed a wild leftist, I don't deny that and I have never wished
Hilarious Rodent Clinton's hand on any lever of power, but the other is wild, period. Neither
of them will do a thing to reduce government power by even a single degree, and unless it
has suddenly become a crime to think so I am just as wary of rightward statism as I have
always been of leftward statism. (The day anyone or anything can "restrain" Donaldus Minimus,
whose every utterance to date indicates an abject disregard for any restraining prescription to
be found in what remains of the Constitution, may well be the day hell freezes over, after all.)
I do know, too, that it came to this despicable choice because other more responsible people
in the appropriate positions did little to nothing to arrest the metastasis of government power
and the erosion of properly construed law, as witness the era of His Excellency Al-Hashish
Field Marshmallow Dr. Barack Obama Dada, COD, RIP, LSMFT, Would-Have-Been Life President
of the Republic Formerly Known as the United States, a man who has made his most
recalcitrant leftward predecessors resemble pikers when it comes to executive presumptuousness.
I believe in freedom.
I believe in individual rights and responsibilities.
And, I believe in a properly-construed government---a government which, other than
protecting us and defending us against enemies actual and provably iminent, has only
one legitimate business: staying the hell out of your business, my business,
everyone's business, until or unless one would obstruct or abrogate another's equivalent
rights.
Neither Donaldus Minimus nor Hilarious Rodent Clinton believe in those things. And
I'm not quite so trusting of any current third-party aspirant's belief in them based on the
record as it has been to this point.
So my vote will remain none of the above.
I'm in awe! :da man:
-
I'm in awe! :da man:
And I'm flattered.
(Not to mention disappointed because there's no "like" button for your kind praise.)
-
http://www.270towin.com/polling-maps/clinton-trump-electoral-map
2016 Election: Clinton (projected 159 electoral votes) vs. Trump (projected 41 electoral votes)
Electoral Map Based on State Polls
This map will track the electoral vote count for the likely Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump 2016 presidential election based on polling. States not polled in 2016 are shown as gray. Close states (poll difference between Clinton and Trump averaging 5 points or less) are shown as toss up (tan). Leaning states (5-10 points) are a lighter blue/red.
-
And I'm flattered.
(Not to mention disappointed because there's no "like" button for your kind praise.)
If there was a like button I would have pressed 100 times! It is sad that people would have to make a choice between either of the candidates. But it is the metastasized government that served up the latest cancer.
-
You're wearing blinders, walking in a deep fog, with your eyes closed....as that is the only way in which you could of come up with your list of what you "think" Trump supporters believe and want. Open your eyes, man...see things for what they are, not what your "feelings" dictate they should be.
Mesaclone has an "ad hominem" for every occasion, lots of "wants" and "beliefs" in his cause, but not one iota of fact or truth to explain why Trump will do any of the "conservative" things he attributes to him, or what in his history justifies conservative support of Trump.
On the other hand, to Mesaclone, we #NeverTrump conservatives are just wrong, wrong, probably evil, maybe Hillary supporters, because we won't support an obviously, morally flawed candidate, and throw our principles in the trash to boot.
Keep at it, Mesa. I think you and your Trump are on the verge of forging a UUuuggg coalition - against Trump and for Hillary. You've got that Alinskyite formula exactly right.
As for me, I am:
#NeverTrump, because
#ForeverChristian, and
#OathKeeper
.... and you can't "trump" that no matter how many lies you spin.
-
As for my opposition to bible thumpers (which, mind you is not an opposition to Christianity in any way) and their "litmus tests"...I stand with Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.
“In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is error alone that needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to Horatio Spofford, 1814
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
~Founding Father Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814,
“The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by Founding Father John Adams
I have the deepest respect for those who live a Christian life, as I do for those who hold to the tenets of Hinduism (such Gandhi) or of Buddhism. Deeply held religious belief is a "holy" thing in my view, and brings much joy into the world. However, religion used to pick who should and should not be in politics/leadership...or religion used to condemn or attack others for their views...is destructive of freedom and democracy.
That's as much of an anti-Christian, demagogic screed as ever has been written. You're smart enough to know it, though you're not smart enough to understand that that trash you just wrote means anything to Christians or conservatives. The philosophy and history you just wrote is thoroughly secular humanist, and absolutely consistent with the philosophical tenets of moral relativism.
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
The "litmus tests" come from a Holy God, and if you like, Jesus Christ Himself. If you have a problem, take it up with Him.
You can feel free to create your own religion, and call it "Christian", or even "tooth-fairyism", but if it isn't based on an inerrant and inspired Word of God, you've got nothing in common with the historic Christian church.
You can also go with that leftist historical reinterpretation of U.S. history, and quote out of context, but that won't make it true.
Certainly, none of that makes you a "conservative", though you claim that too. Moral relativism is in vogue with progressives; not so much conservatives.
What bunk.
-
The best predictor of future performance is past performance.
Wow, a Trump fan actually for once admitting Character matters.
Watching several so-called conservatives argue for gay marriage....
Hold it, Your Trump just told Bruce Jenners (or whatever he is called this week) that he could use any restroom he wanted in his building. Jenners did just that with the press to publicize it. You go on and on about how Trump will appoint conservative justices, but the very first list that leaked out had the judge (Pryor) that drilled Judge Moore about his religion when drumming him out of office. Ask Judge Moore what he thinks of your Trump nominees.
Remember now Character matters... and Trump's fruits are as rotten as it gets.
I will agree with one thing, this year's election is ruined.... I want to win but not this way. I don't like Trump but he won the required sheep required to get the nod and anybody at this point that looks like they are stealing that nomination will probable go down in flames too. So even if the the delegates revolt, I hope Cruz does not end up with the nomination. Let this disaster sit firmly on Trump and his supporters.
-
Wow, a Trump fan actually for once admitting Character matters.
Hold it, Your Trump just told Bruce Jenners (or whatever he is called this week) that he could use any restroom he wanted in his building. Jenners did just that with the press to publicize it. You go on and on about how Trump will appoint conservative justices, but the very first list that leaked out had the judge (Pryor) that drilled Judge Moore about his religion when drumming him out of office. Ask Judge Moore what he thinks of your Trump nominees.
Remember now Character matters... and Trump's fruits are as rotten as it gets.
I will agree with one thing, this year's election is ruined.... I want to win but not this way. I don't like Trump but he won the required sheep required to get the nod and anybody at this point that looks like they are stealing that nomination will probable go down in flames too. So even if the the delegates revolt, I hope Cruz does not end up with the nomination. Let this disaster sit firmly on Trump and his supporters.
Real world lesson time. When asked that question you infer means hes supporting Gays, he was the Owner and CEO of several large hotels etc in Gay Friendly NYC where Gaystapo lawyers would love to sue him into bankruptcy if he had said anything different.
How do you fix our cultural cancer here? By committing economic business suicide to a gotcha question now? Or, by getting elected, appointing up to five conservative Supreme Court justices, gutting the department of education and returning control of education to local, and, protecting the 1st Amendment right of Christians to freely express our faith everywhere.
-
Real world lesson time. When asked that question you infer means hes supporting Gays, he was the Owner and CEO of several large hotels etc in Gay Friendly NYC where Gaystapo lawyers would love to sue him into bankruptcy if he had said anything different.
How do you fix our cultural cancer here? By committing economic business suicide to a gotcha question now? Or, by getting elected, appointing up to five conservative Supreme Court justices, gutting the department of education and returning control of education to local, and, protecting the 1st Amendment right of Christians to freely express our faith everywhere.
He has no problem being "non-PC" by calling out the supposedly Mexican judge, all while operating in liberal, multicultural-friendly NYC. But he can't say no to trannies in the wrong bathrooms because he's in liberal, multicultural-friendly NYC?
-
I'm not telling you which one will do what. What I'm telling you is that one or the other is guaranteed to get over 270. That can only fail to happen if someone other than the two of them wins a state.
So please, tell me which state that is and which 3rd party candidate is polling in such a way in that state as to indicate they will win it? Absent that, Clinton or Trump get over 270...anything else is mathematically impossible.
I can not tell which, if any, 3rd party will will a state, or in the case of Maine and Nebraska, a congressional district. I am only one vote in a state full of mindless union and minority voters who vote religiously for a Democrat no matter who it is. I will vote for a Constitution Party candidate, because both the current parties no longer value the Constitution of the United States as the primary law of this land. Is it wasting my vote? Maybe in this state, but my vote is based on my principles. I can no longer responsibly vote Republican just because they are the major party opponent od the Democrats. If enough other decide to join me, THEN maybe there is a chance. I push the alternative every chance I get. A change is needed. If you want Hillary, then by all means vote for her or Trump. If you vote for Trump, you will likely get Hillary. So the best alternative is a vote for true constitutionalists Darrel Castle and Scott Bradley.
-
Strawman. Nobody has told you how to vote. All I've told you is what the available choices are. If I hand you a dime and say to flip it up in the air and guess how it turns up...you have two choices, not because I'm dictating that to you, but because those are the available options. Now, you could argue that you'd rather predict the coin ends up standing on its side...perhaps a one in a million shot...but that would be ludicrous. Even so, nobody has told you that you are not free to predict such an absurdity. So you can quit feigning that anyone is trying to tell you how you MUST vote...no, this discussion is about the wisdom of your vote. And that is what political discourse is about.
As for meaning it when you said you'd never vote Trump, so many NeverTrumps repeat that assertion as if its an ultimatum they gave to every Republican not part of their fringe Cruz movement. Well guess what, you don't get to issue ultimatums to other party voters...or perhaps you can, but they carry no weight. None of us get to play the..."you chaps better vote for my guy or me and my pals will sabotage whoever it is the majority of you nominate instead...if we lose, we're going to make sure the whole country loses". This would be equally true, of course, if a Trump supporter kept repeating they'd never vote for Cruz were he to be the nominee. This game of "my guy wins or I'm out" because I'm SO morally superior, is self destructive stupidity...and yes, its incredibly childish.
That's just not how party primaries work...unless, of course, you're an idiot and want to ensure your party loses every election. Because only an idiot would say "my way or the highway" in a party primary. Were that to become the common mantra of said party...it would ensure the loss of every single election it entered. Who would be dumb enough, and childish enough, to set up that kind of permanent and certain outcome?
As for how I "like" your choice...hmmm....I guess I like it as much as I'd like it if a five year old had a tantrum in the grocery store because they didn't get the exact kind of ice cream they wanted. That child's fury over getting chocolate fudge rather than chocolate with sparkles in it is no different than your current reaction. So I'd say it sucks, as do most demonstrations of selfish/childish behavior by adults. Worse, because in this case the childish behavior may result in 8 years of Democratic domination destroying most of the institutions...and restraints on institutions...that make this nation what it is. Your anger over not getting "sparkles in your ice cream" is going to result in the rest of us being force to eat a plate full of cold broccoli. Good job...I hope the joy of the tantrum is well worth it to you.
So the bottom line, of course, is that you and the other lemmings are free to continue toward the cliff...nobody is dictating that you not do so. Don't expect, however, that the rest of us will not let you know that the cliff is right in front of you and that your momentum risks dragging all of us over its edge with you.
Every point made to perfection, pure gold. Should be required reading for poli-sci and especially psych majors on late intervention treatment of TDS.
-
Every point made to perfection, pure gold. Should be required reading for poli-sci and especially psych majors on late intervention treatment of TDS.
Two severely deluded people patting each other's backs is still meaningless when both of them are wrong.
Both of you are wrong. You sound like Hannity telling Karl Rove what a great American he is and equally preposterous. Blather away in support of your documented liberal.
Then again, you get your info from FR when you arent fantasizing up the wannabee James Bond super secret double agent thing there, so it's hardly surprising
-
Two severely deluded people patting each other's backs is still meaningless when both of them are wrong.
Both of you are wrong. You sound like Hannity telling Karl Rove what a great American he is and equally preposterous. Blather away in support of your documented liberal.
Then again, you get your info from FR when you arent fantasizing up the wannabee James Bond super secret double agent thing there, so it's hardly surprising
Feel like you're Alice at the tea party?
-
Feel like you're Alice at the tea party?
I think these 'people' are far beyond any Tea Party whether or not it involves Mad hatters, March Hares or conservative voters.
Neurotics build castles in the sky and psychotics live in them. These people couldn't aspire to that level of sanity considering the 'in'sanity they try passing off on others as truth.
Well, they helped destroy Free Republic with their liberal activities. I suppose TBR is their next target. They do run back there now for advice afterall.
-
Feel like you're Alice at the tea party?
This is what outsiders see when witnessing people in an echo chamber.
I broke out of it after the 2012 loss by Romney. I was convinced we'd win because all I read and saw said so. But it wasn't true... and the warning signs were there, but I had turned away from any news that didn't reinforce what I 'already knew'.
And we see that with Trump supporters. Only pro-Trump news sites are allowed, the rest are verboten, that no true Trump supporter may read. It vill contaminate their minds with filth.
I'm sure you've seen the Trump supporters 'minders' here to keep their flock under control.
-
This is what outsiders see when witnessing people in an echo chamber.
I broke out of it after the 2012 loss by Romney. I was convinced we'd win because all I read and saw said so. But it wasn't true... and the warning signs were there, but I had turned away from any news that didn't reinforce what I 'already knew'.
And we see that with Trump supporters. Only pro-Trump news sites are allowed, the rest are verboten, that no true Trump supporter may read. It vill contaminate their minds with filth.
I'm sure you've seen the Trump supporters 'minders' here to keep their flock under control.
the beautiful part is that they do more damage to Trump than any of us with truckloads of facts and history ever could.
If one of them ever actually studied Delphi or even cracked a book on propaganda, we might have cause for concern. Instead, we have a bunch of incompetents so bad at what they do, they'd be fired from a homeowners association board going out and actively pissing off the lurkers who read but seldom post.
Granny always said 'you are who you associate with" and the behavior, more accurately lack thereof, of the Trump fanatics is ensuring that they want no association with Trumps brand.
-
Feel like you're Alice at the tea party?
If the Mad Hatter were running for president it'd be an improvement over what we've got now!
-
I can not tell which, if any, 3rd party will will a state, or in the case of Maine and Nebraska, a congressional district. I am only one vote in a state full of mindless union and minority voters who vote religiously for a Democrat no matter who it is. I will vote for a Constitution Party candidate, because both the current parties no longer value the Constitution of the United States as the primary law of this land. Is it wasting my vote? Maybe in this state, but my vote is based on my principles. I can no longer responsibly vote Republican just because they are the major party opponent od the Democrats. If enough other decide to join me, THEN maybe there is a chance. I push the alternative every chance I get. A change is needed. If you want Hillary, then by all means vote for her or Trump. If you vote for Trump, you will likely get Hillary. So the best alternative is a vote for true constitutionalists Darrel Castle and Scott Bradley.
:beer: I agree with you 100%. No you are not wasting your vote and I have stated for years that people need to vote their conscious rather than voting for party. Voting because of party loyalty when the party is no longer loyal to its voters is ridiculous and why we are in the mess that we are in. Yes we are definitely in need of change and it is very unfortunate that our electoral system is set up so that it is nearly impossible for a 3rd party to win; that is why the Constitution Party is having difficulty getting on the ballot in all 50 states. I don't want Hillary, nor do I want Trump. So, why on earth would I vote for either one of them??
The liberalization of our country has phased out the importance of our Constitution. We have a whole generation that has been fully indoctrinated in liberal beliefs and values. Patriotism, American exceptionalism, pride in country are now frowned upon and seen as a detriment to the world rather than an asset so much so that classroom textbooks on American history and American government have been changed to appease political correctness.
I feel we came very close to taking our country back, but it's hard to battle the liberal lies, deception and deep pockets. I'm not so sure that we will ever have that opportunity again; at least not at the ballot box.
-
:beer: I agree with you 100%. No you are not wasting your vote and I have stated for years that people need to vote their conscious rather than voting for party. Voting because of party loyalty when the party is no longer loyal to its voters is ridiculous and why we are in the mess that we are in. Yes we are definitely in need of change and it is very unfortunate that our electoral system is set up so that it is nearly impossible for a 3rd party to win; that is why the Constitution Party is having difficulty getting on the ballot in all 50 states. I don't want Hillary, nor do I want Trump. So, why on earth would I vote for either one of them??
The liberalization of our country has phased out the importance of our Constitution. We have a whole generation that has been fully indoctrinated in liberal beliefs and values. Patriotism, American exceptionalism, pride in country are now frowned upon and seen as a detriment to the world rather than an asset so much so that classroom textbooks on American history and American government have been changed to appease political correctness.
I feel we came very close to taking our country back, but it's hard to battle the liberal lies, deception and deep pockets. I'm not so sure that we will ever have that opportunity again; at least not at the ballot box.
I would only take exception to the sentence highlighted in bold above. I think liberals and you could go as far to say a lit of RINOs too believe the constitution is an arcane relic of the past and can just be ignored. Even though they swore on a bible to "uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States", they don't care or even acknowledge the premiss that IT is the basis for the federal government. That is provides certain areas they CAN do and only do those things specifically granted. And that all other privileges are reserved to the states. And worse our system of justices appointed by the very same politicians are upholding the illegitimacy.