The Briefing Room
General Category => Sports/Entertainment/MSM/Social Media => Shooting Sports => Topic started by: mountaineer on June 26, 2020, 11:18:05 pm
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Remington’s Rumored Sale To Navajo Nation Could Spell Big Changes For Company
Posted at 5:00 pm on June 26, 2020
by Cam Edwards
The Wall Street Journal reported on Friday that firearms industry giant Remington is likely to enter into Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in the next few days, and is in discussions with the Navajo Nation to purchase the iconic brand. If that happens, there’ll likely be some big changes coming, starting with an end to all AR-style products, at least for the consumer market.
Back in 2018, as the company was last emerging from bankruptcy, the Navajo Nation offered to buy Remington for somewhere around $500-million. The company rejected the offer at the time, but now they appear to be willing to make a deal. ... Bearing Arms - must subscribe (https://bearingarms.com/cam-e/2020/06/26/remingtons-rumored-sale-navajo-nation/?fbclid=IwAR3VnPAcYaEn13gFu1mDHzRPh9zJMbQgAH9TlzPH2Fh7sZK0s3G16gsa_7s)
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Here's a non-subscription story:
Remington Arms preps for bankruptcy sale to Navajo Nation
By Reuters
June 26, 2020 | 4:35pm
Remington Arms, America’s oldest gun maker, is preparing to file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection and is in advanced talks for a potential sale to the Navajo Nation, The Wall Street Journal (https://www.wsj.com/articles/gun-maker-remington-preps-for-bankruptcy-seeks-sale-to-navajo-nation-11593186468) reported on Friday.
Remington is making preparations for the Native American tribe to serve as the lead bidder to purchase its assets out of Chapter 11, the Journal reported here, citing people familiar with the matter. ...
NY Post (https://nypost.com/2020/06/26/gunmaker-remington-preps-for-bankruptcy-sale-to-navajo-nation/)
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Here's what was going on two years ago:
Bid to purchase Remington sparks conflict within Navajo leadership
President's office and speaker's office at odds over $525 million dollar bid for gun manufacturing company
By Katherine Locke
Originally Published: July 24, 2018 10:21 a.m.
WINDOW ROCK, Ariz. — An article in The New York Times July 16 that said the Navajo Nation had offered to buy Remington Arms Co., LLC for approximately $525 million cash spurred conflicting statements from the Nation's executive and legislative branches.
Andrew Ross Sorkin reported in The New York Times that the proposal made by the Nation was novel.
“It intended to shift the company [Remington] away from its consumer business, including curtailing the sale of AR-15-style weapons frequently used in mass shootings, to focus on police and defense contracts,†Sorkin said in the article. “The tribe planned to use the profits from those businesses to invest in research and development of advanced ‘smart guns’ — those with fingerprint or other technology intended to prevent anyone but the gun’s owner from using the weapon.â€
Sorkin added that the only guns the Navajo Nation planned to sell to consumers were long guns like rifles and shotguns used by hunters and that Remington rejected the bid. ...
Navajo-Hopi Observer (https://www.nhonews.com/news/2018/jul/24/bid-purchase-remington-sparks-conflict-within-nava/)
That publication has not yet reported on today's developments.
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You would think that an Indian nation would be the last group to want to limit what kind of guns people have access to. :shrug:
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Remington has declared bankruptcy. I did all I could to increase their bank account, and would buy more 9mm ammo if only I could find it!
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Remington has declared bankruptcy. I did all I could to increase their bank account, and would buy more 9mm ammo if only I could find it!
IMHO they bought up too many other manufacturers and quality control issues with Marlin rifles after they bought the company as well as the disaster that was their R51 pistol.
I like their ammo too...especially their stuff for shotguns and yes their 9mm as well.
Even the PX is running out of the stuff these days.
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You would think that an Indian nation would be the last group to want to limit what kind of guns people have access to. :shrug:
I would pick up the whole thing, lock, stock, and barrel, and set it down on the rez. Remington's problem is it's location. Away from unions and gun-hating regulations, That's a money maker.
And I doubt very much they will limit, once they see the bang for buck.
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I would pick up the whole thing, lock, stock, and barrel, and set it down on the rez. Remington's problem is it's location. Away from unions and gun-hating regulations, That's a money maker.
And I doubt very much they will limit, once they see the bang for buck.
That's not a bad idea. It would diversify a reservations income from either oil or gambling.
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Remington Asset Bids Revealed: Ruger Gets Marlin, Vista Gets Remington Ammo, Franklin Armory Gets Bushmaster, Sierra Gets Barnes
by Dan Zimmerman
Sep 27, 2020
The bidding process for the sale of most of the assets of Remington Outdoor, Inc. is now complete. The debtors — Remington — have selected the successful bidders for each asset or asset bundle, along with backup bidders, and you can read the complete court filing here which details all of the assets purchased.
The bankruptcy court still needs to approve the successful bids, but they are as follows: ... (https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/remington-asset-bids-revealed-ruger-gets-marlin-vista-gets-remington-ammo-franklin-armory-gets-bushmaster/[/url)
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You would think that an Indian nation would be the last group to want to limit what kind of guns people have access to. :shrug:
@txradioguy
You kidding? All the reservation Indians care about is "more free stuff". Chances are the is not a single tribal member on the management or planning team for anything more than drawing a check.
The tribe may own it,but management controls it.
Given that it is an Indian tribe that is going to be the supposed owners,you can bet there will be all sorts of government minority grants and tax breaks that come with the deal.
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Remington has declared bankruptcy. I did all I could to increase their bank account, and would buy more 9mm ammo if only I could find it!
@mountaineer
I have to admit this is the first I heard of it,and can't even begin to guess how it happened. They had a VERY successful product line and were well-established.
Did somebody steal all the money and run?
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I would pick up the whole thing, lock, stock, and barrel, and set it down on the rez. Remington's problem is it's location. Away from unions and gun-hating regulations, That's a money maker.
And I doubt very much they will limit, once they see the bang for buck.
@roamer_1
The only problem I see with that is there HAS to be some sort of agreement to have a majority Navajo
workforce,and were are they going to get them? Remington ain't a mom and pop sized business.
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@mountaineer
I have to admit this is the first I heard of it,and can't even begin to guess how it happened. They had a VERY successful product line and were well-established.
Did somebody steal all the money and run?
Judge allowed the suit against Remington owned Bushmaster over Sandy Hook.
Next, farmers will be sued for growing corn used to make whiskey because some drunk ran someone over.
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Judge allowed the suit against Remington owned Bushmaster over Sandy Hook.
Judge did that despite federal law preventing this kind of lawsuit from happening. However it IS one of the cornerstones of Progeressive gun control they don't say that loudly or that often.
Next, farmers will be sued for growing corn used to make whiskey because some drunk ran someone over.
Give them time...they'll do that. They are too busy suing the bartender and the bar owners right now.
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Judge did that despite federal law preventing this kind of lawsuit from happening. However it IS one of the cornerstones of Progeressive gun control they don't say that loudly or that often.
Give them time...they'll do that. They are too busy suing the bartender and the bar owners right now.
At the moment the gun-grabbers are busy beating a drum for a non-sensical insurance scam, to make firearms very expensive to bear, and as a bonus get the arms back-door registered.
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At the moment the gun-grabbers are busy beating a drum for a non-sensical insurance scam, to make firearms very expensive to bear, and as a bonus get the arms back-door registered.
Hmmm I wonder where I've heard that before??? :pondering:
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Hmmm I wonder where I've heard that before??? :pondering:
(https://media.tenor.com/images/2e832f63d723c10a131366f178559cf6/tenor.gif)
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Judge allowed the suit against Remington owned Bushmaster over Sandy Hook.
@Smokin Joe
Some days it seems like I took a nap and woke up in "Bizarro World".
Next, farmers will be sued for growing corn used to make whiskey because some drunk ran someone over.
Wasn't it Shakespeare that said in reference to taking over a government,"The first thing we will do will be to hang all the lawyers."
He was a wise man.
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@Smokin Joe
Some days it seems like I took a nap and woke up in "Bizarro World".
You and me, both.Wasn't it Shakespeare that said in reference to taking over a government,"The first thing we will do will be to hang all the lawyers."
He was a wise man.
Yep, and people should have listened.
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You and me, both.Yep, and people should have listened.
@Smokin Joe
It's still not too late.
It is never too late to hang lawyers.
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@Smokin Joe
Some days it seems like I took a nap and woke up in "Bizarro World".
No kidding. Now indians are selling rifles to the white man.
Paul Revere and the Raiders warned us this would happen.
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No kidding. Now indians are selling rifles to the white man.
Paul Revere and the Raiders warned us this would happen.
It would be interesting to see how a "sovereign" like the Navajo Nation gets dealt with as an arms manufacturer. What are the implications for the 2nd Amendment?
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No kidding. Now indians are selling rifles to the white man.
Paul Revere and the Raiders warned us this would happen.
I would very happily entrust arms manufacturing to the natives, rather than anyone east of Michigan and North of the Mason Dixon Line...
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It would be interesting to see how a "sovereign" like the Navajo Nation gets dealt with as an arms manufacturer. What are the implications for the 2nd Amendment?
Well, put it this way... I can STILL go down to the rez and buy M-80s by the box full, right over the counter.
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Roundhill Group purchases Remington Arms’ Ilion plant
My Little Falls Oct 2, 2020
https://mylittlefalls.com/roundhill-group-purchases-remington-arms-ilion-plant/ (https://mylittlefalls.com/roundhill-group-purchases-remington-arms-ilion-plant/)
Roundhill Group, LLC, an investment company with headquarters in Pennsylvania and Florida, announced that it is purchasing Remington Firearms. The purchase includes all long guns, shotguns, pistols, the firearms manufacturing facilities, museum, and gift shop.
With the acquisition, Roundhill Group LLC partner and spokesman, Jeff Edwards stated, “As is known, Roundhill Group LLC and a group of experienced firearms manufacturing and hunting industry professionals is in the process of purchasing Remington Firearms. Our intent with this acquisition is to return the company to its traditional place as an iconic American hunting brand. We intend to maintain, care for, and nurture the brand and all of the dedicated employees who have crafted these products over the years for outdoorsmen and women both here in the USA and abroad. More than anything we want to make Remington a household name that is spoken with pride.â€
Edwards added, “The Roundhill Group is comprised of a group of individuals all of whom have years of experience in engineering, manufacturing, and marketing both in and outside of the firearms space. They are all life-long hunting advocates and staunch Remington brand loyalists. They will work tirelessly to ensure that this company takes its rightful place as the iconic American brand that it was and still is.â€
More at link.
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It would be interesting to see how a "sovereign" like the Navajo Nation gets dealt with as an arms manufacturer. What are the implications for the 2nd Amendment?
I wonder. It’d be worth a trip to the nearest res for an AR suppressor and some 30rd magazines. And an afternoon of Keno.
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“It intended to shift the company [Remington] away from its consumer business, including curtailing the sale of AR-15-style weapons frequently used in mass shootings, to focus on police and defense contracts,†Sorkin said in the article. “The tribe planned to use the profits from those businesses to invest in research and development of advanced ‘smart guns’ — those with fingerprint or other technology intended to prevent anyone but the gun’s owner from using the weapon.â€
I predict that the Navajo Nation will quickly rethink that strategy or will be spending time in Bankruptcy Court in the not to distant future. What's their next big business move buying a distillery and transitioning it to non alcoholic Whiskey?
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“It intended to shift the company [Remington] away from its consumer business, including curtailing the sale of AR-15-style weapons frequently used in mass shootings, to focus on police and defense contracts,†Sorkin said in the article. “The tribe planned to use the profits from those businesses to invest in research and development of advanced ‘smart guns’ — those with fingerprint or other technology intended to prevent anyone but the gun’s owner from using the weapon.â€
I predict that the Navajo Nation will quickly rethink that strategy or will be spending time in Bankruptcy Court in the not to distant future. What's their next big business move buying a distillery and transitioning it to non alcoholic Whiskey?
@GtHawk
I'm not so sure of that. I didn't even know Remington made AR's.
I do know they made some mighty fine rifles and shotguns,though.
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@GtHawk
I'm not so sure of that. I didn't even know Remington made AR's.
I do know they made some mighty fine rifles and shotguns,though.
@sneakypete
Money quote: “It intended to shift the company [Remington] away from its consumer business, including curtailing the sale of AR-15-style weapons"
Note it doesn't limit it to the AR-15 platform it includes it in it's shift away from consumer business. Sure cut the throat of your bread and butter clientele, because of course you can replace it with government entities. :shrug:
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I wonder. It’d be worth a trip to the nearest res for an AR suppressor and some 30rd magazines. And an afternoon of Keno.
Heck, I could easy be back by lunch.
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@sneakypete
Money quote: “It intended to shift the company [Remington] away from its consumer business, including curtailing the sale of AR-15-style weapons"
Note it doesn't limit it to the AR-15 platform it includes it in it's shift away from consumer business. Sure cut the throat of your bread and butter clientele, because of course you can replace it with government entities. :shrug:
@GtHawk
HEY! If you can't trust the gooberment,who CAN you trust,right?
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@roamer_1 @skeeter
I can see how suppressors would be an excellent and practical addition to a hunting rifle.
Hell,in some European countries,they are mandatory on hunting rifles.
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@roamer_1 @skeeter
I can see how suppressors would be an excellent and practical addition to a hunting rifle.
Hell,in some European countries,they are mandatory on hunting rifles.
@sneakypete
well yeah - especially since it has to be subsonic to be a 'silencer'. There is going to be a bang just from the bullet breaking the sound barrier.. so the whole thing is pretty stupid. All it is going to do with a normal hunting rifle is deaden the fire, not the travel, saving on ears, no doubt.
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I wonder. It’d be worth a trip to the nearest res for an AR suppressor and some 30rd magazines. And an afternoon of Keno.
I sure wouldn't want to risk getting nailed for possession of an unregistered NFA item.
Violations of the Act are punishable by up to 10 years in federal prison and forfeiture of all devices or firearms in violation, and the individual's right to own or possess firearms in the future. The Act provides for a penalty of $10,000 for certain violations.[36] A willful attempt to evade or defeat a tax imposed by the Act is a felony punishable by up to five years in prison and a $100,000 fine ($500,000 in the case of a corporation or trust), under the general tax evasion statute.[37] For an individual, the felony fine of $100,000 for tax evasion could be increased to $250,000.[38]
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@sneakypete
well yeah - especially since it has to be subsonic to be a 'silencer'. There is going to be a bang just from the bullet breaking the sound barrier.. so the whole thing is pretty stupid. All it is going to do with a normal hunting rifle is deaden the fire, not the travel, saving on ears, no doubt.
@roamer_1
That was true in my time,but not anymore. The technology has really advanced in that area. Not sure how much of it is available on the civilian market,but full-power loads are the rule of the day,today.
Probably not with pistols because an effective one would add so much length to the pistol you might as well carry a carbine.
I avoided that problem in the 60's by putting a suppressor on a M-3 Grease gun. Full-power 45 ACP ball ammo is all subsonic.
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Roundhill Group purchases Remington Arms’ Ilion plant
My Little Falls Oct 2, 2020
https://mylittlefalls.com/roundhill-group-purchases-remington-arms-ilion-plant/ (https://mylittlefalls.com/roundhill-group-purchases-remington-arms-ilion-plant/)
Good news. Sounds like the Injuns were planning to run Remington into the politically correct ground. Roundtree running things is the equivalent of putting the Car Guys back in charge at the car manufacturing companies. The Big Three carmakers almost didn't survive having Business Administration grads in charge. Motorola was killed outright, when a Galvin who wasn't an Engineer took over as CEO.
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Good news. Sounds like the Injuns were planning to run Remington into the politically correct ground. Roundtree running things is the equivalent of putting the Car Guys back in charge at the car manufacturing companies. The Big Three carmakers almost didn't survive having Business Administration grads in charge. Motorola was killed outright, when a Galvin who wasn't an Engineer took over as CEO.
@Cyber Liberty
The problem with Biz management majors is they are nothing but lawyers with business degrees,and they see EVERYTHING in the light of immediate returns. They see everything in the light of "THIS quarters returns",with no thought at all of next quarter,never mind next year.
Anal toads,not visionaries. No imagination and no concept of the future.
IMHO,this comes from learning from toads who have never been in business themselves,but know and worship all the trending theories.
Business is really simple basics. Produce something people want to buy,and sell it for a profit,take that money,and repeat by investing your profits after expenses right back in to the business,not in buying stocks and bonds in other companies and let yours get stagnant.
These are the same cretins that think making a profit from breaking up a company and selling off it's assets is a GOOD thing because it makes their yearly profit numbers go up.
And,of course,they invariably have a clause in their contracts that gives THEM yearly bonuses based on the numbers at the end of the year,regardless of the source of the numbers.
These people are vultures,and I will never understand why anyone admires them.
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@GtHawk
I'm not so sure of that. I didn't even know Remington made AR's.
I do know they made some mighty fine rifles and shotguns,though.
Bushmaster.
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Bushmaster.
@Smokin Joe
I used to be very familiar with Bushmaster.
Remington bought them out?
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@sneakypete
well yeah - especially since it has to be subsonic to be a 'silencer'. There is going to be a bang just from the bullet breaking the sound barrier.. so the whole thing is pretty stupid. All it is going to do with a normal hunting rifle is deaden the fire, not the travel, saving on ears, no doubt.
momentum=mass times velocity. Slower but heavier will still get the job done.
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@Smokin Joe
I used to be very familiar with Bushmaster.
Remington bought them out?
Bushmaster, Marlin, DPMS, and Remington were all owned by the same outfit, Remington Outdoor Company, along with Barnes Bullets, Advanced Armament, H & R Firearms, Para USA, The Parker Gun, Dakota Arms, Tapco, and Storm Lake Barrels.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Outdoor_Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Outdoor_Company)
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Bushmaster, Marlin, DPMS, and Remington were all owned by the same outfit, Remington Outdoor Company, along with Barnes Bullets, Advanced Armament, H & R Firearms, Para USA, The Parker Gun, Dakota Arms, Tapco, and Storm Lake Barrels.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Outdoor_Company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Outdoor_Company)
Sturm Ruger has announced they are purchasing the Marlin line from Remington. Thank goodness.
https://ruger.com/corporate/marlin.html
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Sturm Ruger has announced they are purchasing the Marlin line from Remington. Thank goodness.
https://ruger.com/corporate/marlin.html
Yes. One of my all time favorite rifles is a Marlin, and it was dead on accurate out of the box.
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Please note that what I posted 9/27 was an update to the Navajo/bankruptcy story: Ruger Gets Marlin, Vista Gets Remington Ammo, Franklin Armory Gets Bushmaster, Sierra Gets Barnes
Here's more on the ammunition aspect of this:Vista Outdoor Wins Bankruptcy Auction for Remington's Ammunition Business
It will bring the historic Remington name into the portfolio alongside the market-leading Federal brand.
Rich Duprey
Sep 29, 2020 at 1:37PM
Vista Outdoor (NYSE:VSTO) has emerged as the winner of an auction for the ammunition assets of bankrupt firearms manufacturer Remington Outdoor, it announced yesterday.
The ammunition and outdoor gear company will pay $81.4 million for Remington's manufacturing facility in Arkansas, its accessories business, and the intellectual property of the ammo business, including the Remington brand and trademarks. ...
The Motley Fool (https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/09/29/vista-outdoor-wins-bankruptcy-auction-for-remingto/)
Vista owns Federal ammunition. I always figure I'm getting good ammo if I buy Remington, Winchester or Federal.
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My first centerfire rifle was the Glenfield 30, an economy Marlin. I learned to expect quarter sized groups from it at 100. Many years later I lucked into a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 when it's owner was short on moola. It too is very accurate. My reloading manuals showed the Marlin to be at a power level 3 out of 4. But I had a friend I hunted often with that had a Rem. rolling block in 45/70 so I limited my loads to level 2, so he could shoot them too. Its my one gun that gets borrowed out more than all the others.
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I have a Henry .45-70 while my son has the Marlin. My preference? The Marlin. I much prefer the side loading gate on the Marlin and the barrel is maybe two inches longer. The Henry is nice, though.
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What I've mostly run in my Marlin 1895 is the 300 gr Hornady JHP using around 43gr of IMR-4198.
It would be very similar to this :Steinel 45-70 govt. 300 GR Hornady JHP (High Power)
Error 404 (Not Found)!!1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xONMAKnl898#)
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@GtHawk
I'm not so sure of that. I didn't even know Remington made AR's.
I do know they made some mighty fine rifles and shotguns,though.
They own Bushmaster and DPMS Panther Arms. Both make their own versions of Eugene Stoner's famous rifle.
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My first centerfire rifle was the Glenfield 30, an economy Marlin. I learned to expect quarter sized groups from it at 100. Many years later I lucked into a Marlin 1895 in 45/70 when it's owner was short on moola. It too is very accurate. My reloading manuals showed the Marlin to be at a power level 3 out of 4. But I had a friend I hunted often with that had a Rem. rolling block in 45/70 so I limited my loads to level 2, so he could shoot them too. Its my one gun that gets borrowed out more than all the others.
I love my Glenfield/Marlin 30 AS I got for Father's day.
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I must of been around 13 when I bought my Glenfield at Fed-Mart for around $58. I then picked up a Lee Loader and enough reloading supplies to start out. That was before I went to spend the summer at my grandparents in the country just outside of Grey Ga. I even made some loads using the powder from 3 or 4 .22LR cartridges( I didn't have any Bullseye pdr), with tissue paper filler and 4 #1 buck pellets. Three would be held by the neck and since the 30-30 had such a taper in its shoulder I felt the 4th sitting on the tissue paper right behind the 3 in the neck would be fine too. They grouped pretty good, I thought. I found a bandolier of M2 AP hanging in a closet. I pulled bullets with pliers, and I knew the powder they used would be too slow for the 30-30. So I didn't measure, I just filled up the 30-30 case with that -06 power and tapped out enough to seat one of those AP bullets just to the shoulder. I knew to only single load pointy bullets so that's what I did. One of those AP bullets would go right through a pine tree 12 in or so in dia. But it made quite a fireball too. I knew that powder was too slow.
I loved that Glenfield.
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I must of been around 13 when I bought my Glenfield at Fed-Mart for around $58. I then picked up a Lee Loader and enough reloading supplies to start out. That was before I went to spend the summer at my grandparents in the country just outside of Grey Ga. I even made some loads using the powder from 3 or 4 .22LR cartridges( I didn't have any Bullseye pdr), with tissue paper filler and 4 #1 buck pellets. Three would be held by the neck and since the 30-30 had such a taper in its shoulder I felt the 4th sitting on the tissue paper right behind the 3 in the neck would be fine too. They grouped pretty good, I thought. I found a bandolier of M2 AP hanging in a closet. I pulled bullets with pliers, and I knew the powder they used would be too slow for the 30-30. So I didn't measure, I just filled up the 30-30 case with that -06 power and tapped out enough to seat one of those AP bullets just to the shoulder. I knew to only single load pointy bullets so that's what I did. One of those AP bullets would go right through a pine tree 12 in or so in dia. But it made quite a fireball too. I knew that powder was too slow.
I loved that Glenfield.
@Elderberry I lucked into mine at the Cabela's in Denver. 1991 Model. Action is smooth and it's a straight shooter. It was one of only three 30-30 rifles I could fine between Colorado Springs and Denver this summer.
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@txradioguy
It must have been around 1966 when I picked mine up. I didn't have it long at all before I mounted a William's Fool Proof peep sight on it. After that gun I've put a Fool Proof on all my rifles that I didn't scope. I even put a peep sight on my flintlock, but it was a tang mounted folding sight. And I've never scoped a lever gun.
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@txradioguy
It must have been around 1966 when I picked mine up. I didn't have it long at all before I mounted a William's Fool Proof peep sight on it. After that gun I've put a Fool Proof on all my rifles that I didn't scope. I even put a peep sight on my flintlock, but it was a tang mounted folding sight. And I've never scoped a lever gun.
I'm thinking of putting a picatinny rail on the top of the receiver of mine...it comes with a built in ghost ring sight.