The Briefing Room
General Category => Sports/Entertainment/MSM/Social Media => Shooting Sports => Topic started by: txradioguy on July 15, 2016, 10:01:11 am
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Pretty close. Depends on which one I have with me, but that's the basic idea. :laugh:
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Pretty close. Depends on which one I have with me, but that's the basic idea. :laugh:
Just imagine the tragedies that could have been stopped recently if someone had been carrying...San Bernardino...Orlando...in CQB like those two instances you don't need a hand cannon...just something that puts steel on target accurately.
Even the mere thought that someone might be packing somewhere is deterrent enough.
Still trying to decide what to get as my concealed carry when I get back to the states next month.
I really like the J frame S&W .38's but I can't make any real decision until I'm actually back and in a gun store. :pondering:
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Just imagine the tragedies that could have been stopped recently if someone had been carrying...San Bernardino...Orlando...in CQB like those two instances you don't need a hand cannon...just something that puts steel on target accurately.
Even the mere thought that someone might be packing somewhere is deterrent enough.
Still trying to decide what to get as my concealed carry when I get back to the states next month.
I really like the J frame S&W .38's but I can't make any real decision until I'm actually back and in a gun store. :pondering:
I always figured that even if I only attracted the shooter's attention and bought everyone a few more seconds to escape, it would be worth it.
Consider one of these: http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764961_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_764961_-1_757768_757767_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y)
I bought one for Mrs Joe. Liked it so much I bought one for me, too. About half my carry is during the winter, and it can be fired from inside a parka pocket in a pinch (bye, bye, parka). Hammerless, lightweight, foolproof. If you like the J frame .38's I think you'll love it.
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Just imagine the tragedies that could have been stopped recently if someone had been carrying...San Bernardino...Orlando...in CQB like those two instances you don't need a hand cannon...just something that puts steel on target accurately.
Even the mere thought that someone might be packing somewhere is deterrent enough.
Still trying to decide what to get as my concealed carry when I get back to the states next month.
I really like the J frame S&W .38's but I can't make any real decision until I'm actually back and in a gun store. :pondering:
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/__KONc6M3jls/SnpHFDZeW6I/AAAAAAAAAv8/1bqAGH1E2EE/s640/sw442+010.JPG)
This is mine - a very nice summer-weight carry gun (Model 442).
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/__KONc6M3jls/SnpHFDZeW6I/AAAAAAAAAv8/1bqAGH1E2EE/s640/sw442+010.JPG)
This is mine - a very nice summer-weight carry gun (Model 442).
GMTA! :beer:
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Smith has a Bodyguard.38 with the built in laser sight ive been looking at as well. Only about $50 more than the two revolvers pictured above.
Thoughts?
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Hammerless? (no snag is important in a carry gun)? Weight? The ones we referred to are airweight models, and weigh in under two pounds empty. The really nice thing about a laser is that it can intimidate the offender as well as guide aim (careful, that works both ways in mist, fog, or rain). The bad thing is that if it isn't working, while muscle memory will likely put you on target if you practice your draw a lot, over reliance on the laser might leave you short aiming skills if you don't. If you go that route, practice drawing and pointing on target, at a variety of targets, angles,etc., using the laser to confirm aim. Work until you can draw and be on target without adjusting, wherever the target is.
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Hammerless? (no snag is important in a carry gun)? Weight? The ones we referred to are airweight models, and weigh in under two pounds empty. The really nice thing about a laser is that it can intimidate the offender as well as guide aim (careful, that works both ways in mist, fog, or rain). The bad thing is that if it isn't working, while muscle memory will likely put you on target if you practice your draw a lot, over reliance on the laser might leave you short aiming skills if you don't. If you go that route, practice drawing and pointing on target, at a variety of targets, angles,etc., using the laser to confirm aim. Work until you can draw and be on target without adjusting, wherever the target is.
Yeah it's hammerless...double action only.
I've never been one to rely on optics. I always...even this last time when I went to Afghanistan...made sure I could hit the 300m on the Alt C target with the iron sights on my M-4 before I started plinking away using the AIM point.
I plan on getting as much range time as the new job will allow...plus I'll get to teach my son how to shoot as well.
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Yeah it's hammerless...double action only.
I've never been one to rely on optics. I always...even this last time when I went to Afghanistan...made sure I could hit the 300m on the Alt C target with the iron sights on my M-4 before I started plinking away using the AIM point.
I plan on getting as much range time as the new job will allow...plus I'll get to teach my son how to shoot as well.
Then, if you get the laser, use it as a training aid. Pull, point, and see if you are on target. Helps work out DAO 'wiggle' if you throw in a wheel full of snap caps, too.
BTW, I'm a lover of iron sights, too, but they have limits in low light. A laser can intimidate the situation to an end, even without the pistol. (another story, boy was I lucky).
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These are my carry rigs for my XDs and Shield. Pocket carry and IWB depending on what I am wearing. The wife carries a G43 in a purse holster by Alabama Holsters.
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(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/__KONc6M3jls/SnpHFDZeW6I/AAAAAAAAAv8/1bqAGH1E2EE/s640/sw442+010.JPG)
This is mine - a very nice summer-weight carry gun (Model 442).
@andy58
Unless you have done a lot of shooting and are an excellent shot with a "snubby",don't even think about buying a self-defense handgun with a barrel shorter than 3 inches. The 1-3/4 and 2 inch snubby revolvers are to be carried and not shot unless you stick one right in the belly of who you want to shoot.
I bought a 9 shot 22 single and double-action revolver with a 1-3/4 barrel and have trouble hitting a car with it at 15 feet. I also have a 44 Special Rossie double action only revolver that I shoot running snakes in the head with,including a couple more than 15 feet away.
IF you insist on carrying a 38 Special,do NOT shoot round nosed lead bullets in it. The factory load is a 158 grain round-nosed lead bullet,and it is uselss. Get somebody to load up some 148 grain hollowbased wadcutters for you at about 800 fps,and have then load them backwards so the hollow base is what strikes your target. Make damn sure they use swaged lead wadcutters and not cast wadcutters. I had some of these loaded up when I was working security and restricted to 38 caliber only,and they would expand up to 72 caliber in sand.
Forget getting a magnum short barreled revolver,also. Not enough barrel length to get Magnum velocity,but you do get Magnum recoil and muzzle blast. Go for a 44 Special and use 200 grain hollowpoints.
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[qhus quote author=Smokin Joe link=topic=216020.msg967165#msg967165 date=1468594577]
Then, if you get the laser, use it as a training aid. Pull, point, and see if you are on target. Helps work out DAO 'wiggle' if you throw in a wheel full of snap caps, too.
BTW, I'm a lover of iron sights, too, but they have limits in low light. A laser can intimidate the situation to an end, even without the pistol. (another story, boy was I lucky).
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@Smokin Joe
NEVER point a gun at anyone unless you are in the process of shooting them. Guns are for shooting people,not intimidating them,and if you do use a gun to intimidate an attacker,they can actually have you arrested for threatening them with a deadly weapon unless you can prove they also had a gun. The problem with this is if they had a gun and already had it out pointing at you,they would have shot you when you went to draw yours.
Thus the advantage of 3 inch 44 Specials like the Charter Arms or the old Rossi. Small enough to fit into most coat or pants pockets,and if push comes to shove you can fire it right through the coat pocket with no fear of it jamming from a slide catching or the pocket keeping the empty from ejecting.
I have been in two situations where I was facing multiple attackers,one time it was 6 gangbangers looking for revenge because I had made one of them leave a tip and apologize to a waitress in a restaurant a hour or so earlier,and the other time it was 4 punks just looking for someone to intimidate/ratpack. Both times I just put my hand on my 44 Special inside my coat pocket and told them I was going to gut shoot the first few that got to me so I could hear them scream while dying,and then I was going to beat to death any left standing with the empty gun. I did this while smiling at them.
If I ever point a gun at you,you WILL be shot.
For some reason neither group decided to test me,and they seemed to hear their mamas calling them because they hauled ass.
I was safe from arrest for intimidation because at no time did I actually pull the gun from my pocket,so there was no way they could describe it.
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@andy58
Unless you have done a lot of shooting and are an excellent shot with a "snubby",don't even think about buying a self-defense handgun with a barrel shorter than 3 inches. The 1-3/4 and 2 inch snubby revolvers are to be carried and not shot unless you stick one right in the belly of who you want to shoot.
I bought a 9 shot 22 single and double-action revolver with a 1-3/4 barrel and have trouble hitting a car with it at 15 feet. I also have a 44 Special Rossie double action only revolver that I shoot running snakes in the head with,including a couple more than 15 feet away.
IF you insist on carrying a 38 Special,do NOT shoot round nosed lead bullets in it. The factory load is a 158 grain round-nosed lead bullet,and it is uselss. Get somebody to load up some 148 grain hollowbased wadcutters for you at about 800 fps,and have then load them backwards so the hollow base is what strikes your target. Make damn sure they use swaged lead wadcutters and not cast wadcutters. I had some of these loaded up when I was working security and restricted to 38 caliber only,and they would expand up to 72 caliber in sand.
Forget getting a magnum short barreled revolver,also. Not enough barrel length to get Magnum velocity,but you do get Magnum recoil and muzzle blast. Go for a 44 Special and use 200 grain hollowpoints.
I appreciate your advice, and the issue of accuracy is not one I'd lightly dismiss. However, I use only hollow point rounds for self-defense, and leave the cheaper, round-nosed lead rounds for the practice field. I must say that I have found this particular piece to be unusually accurate for a snubby. I can get a surprisingly tight grouping at 20 feet, and wouldn't want to depend on a carry gun for distances much beyond that anyway.
The nice thing about the Airweight is that it is hammerless and so easily concealable in light summer clothing. Most of the year, I carry a compact .45 or a 9mm.
The key to accuracy is always the same: sight picture, breathing and trigger control, grip and stance, and practice, practice, practice.
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GMTA! :beer:
(https://s.yimg.com/fz/api/res/1.2/FeqWeQVv9Kstcn9wWB5oCQ--/YXBwaWQ9c3JjaGRkO2g9NzgyO3E9OTU7dz0xMjAw/http://www.springfield-armory.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/XDS9339B_1200x782.png)
Here's mine minus the Crimson Trace laser sight and 8 round mag.
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Its most important to know how your local LEOs view your CCW. Sadly.
Something tells me that they would represent the biggest threat to the legal carrier.
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Its most important to know how your local LEOs view your CCW. Sadly.
Something tells me that they would represent the biggest threat to the legal carrier.
I live in Texas where open carry is legal for those with a license so I have no problem at all carrying concealed.
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[qhus quote author=Smokin Joe link=topic=216020.msg967165#msg967165 date=1468594577]
Then, if you get the laser, use it as a training aid. Pull, point, and see if you are on target. Helps work out DAO 'wiggle' if you throw in a wheel full of snap caps, too.
BTW, I'm a lover of iron sights, too, but they have limits in low light. A laser can intimidate the situation to an end, even without the pistol. (another story, boy was I lucky).
@Smokin Joe
NEVER point a gun at anyone unless you are in the process of shooting them. Guns are for shooting people,not intimidating them,and if you do use a gun to intimidate an attacker,they can actually have you arrested for threatening them with a deadly weapon unless you can prove they also had a gun. The problem with this is if they had a gun and already had it out pointing at you,they would have shot you when you went to draw yours.
Thus the advantage of 3 inch 44 Specials like the Charter Arms or the old Rossi. Small enough to fit into most coat or pants pockets,and if push comes to shove you can fire it right through the coat pocket with no fear of it jamming from a slide catching or the pocket keeping the empty from ejecting.
I have been in two situations where I was facing multiple attackers,one time it was 6 gangbangers looking for revenge because I had made one of them leave a tip and apologize to a waitress in a restaurant a hour or so earlier,and the other time it was 4 punks just looking for someone to intimidate/ratpack. Both times I just put my hand on my 44 Special inside my coat pocket and told them I was going to gut shoot the first few that got to me so I could hear them scream while dying,and then I was going to beat to death any left standing with the empty gun. I did this while smiling at them.
If I ever point a gun at you,you WILL be shot.
For some reason neither group decided to test me,and they seemed to hear their mamas calling them because they hauled ass.
I was safe from arrest for intimidation because at no time did I actually pull the gun from my pocket,so there was no way they could describe it.
I was playing with the dog with a weapons sight laser I was going to mount when a fellow who thought he had a problem with me created one. I'm pretty sure it was a case of mistaken identity. It was dark, he was about 30 ft. away, and I just swept the laser up to his chest, paused, dazzled one eye and asked him which one he wanted shot out. He left. He never saw a weapon, because I didn't have one in my hand, but I was in enough shadow that he didn't know that.
We don't have much for ratpacks here, very little gangbanger crap as the local police have been down on that in towns from the git go. Everyone else is a mite spread out for that stuff. Most conflict here is either some druggies having it out over a problem or the rare result of a robbery, and every now and then a relatively ordinary homicide over some dispute.
If I draw a weapon, it is to use it, and so far I haven't had to.
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Smith has a Bodyguard.38 with the built in laser sight ive been looking at as well. Only about $50 more than the two revolvers pictured above.
Thoughts?
Since my wife has a hard time racking the initial round into most semi-automatics, I got her the Bodyguard. She loves it. I have fired it and like the feel and the weight. The drawback is that it only carries 5 rounds but she is a better shot than me.
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I appreciate your advice, and the issue of accuracy is not one I'd lightly dismiss. However, I use only hollow point rounds for self-defense, and leave the cheaper, round-nosed lead rounds for the practice field.
@andy58-in-nh
Buying hollowpoints for a 38 snubby is throwing money away because the bullet itself is designed to expand at Magnum velocities,and you will never get Magnum Velocities out of a snubgun. Not even if it is a 357 Magnum. The barrel just isn't long enough to build up the velocity. In effect,you are shooting "solids". You might as well buy and shoot the cheap 158 gr RNL bullet and be done with it.
This is why I suggested the 146 gr hollow base wad-cutter loaded backwards. It is a target bullet designed for accuracy instead of velocity,and is made from swagged lead that is so soft you can score it with a fingernail. Load these things up backwards and the whole damn flat front of them is a hollow with no point. I have had them expand from 68 to 72 caliber when fired into sand or a soft pine 2x4 when loaded to the 800 fps range. Also,you don't have to worry about them over-penetrating and harming anyone or anything behind your attacker,and every ounce of energy in the bullet is expending inside your attacker.
No,the hollowbase wadcutter is NOT a target round when loaded backwards. Still,your expected target is the torso of an adult male within 15-20 feet,so it's plenty accurate for that.
I used to load these up and give them away to female friends buying their first and only guns for self-defense when I lived out in Denver. I told them to buy a 2-1/2 to 4 inch small frame 38 Special,and only shoot these bullets thought it. I would give them a whole box of 50,and tell them to go to a indoor range and shoot 39 or 40 of them at man-sized silhouette targets at 15-20 feet so they had some idea of what they needed to do,and save the remaining 5 or 6 loaded bullets to carry. Of course,I also told them if they needed more to just bring me the brass and I'd load up another box for them any time they needed it.
PERFECT round for apartment dwellers to use for self-defense in a city because of the low penetration.
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Since my wife has a hard time racking the initial round into most semi-automatics, I got her the Bodyguard.
@starstruck
WHY is that a problem. PLEASE tell us you aren't one of the idiots that carries a semi-auto with an empty chamber!
The FACT is you almost never need a gun until you need one RIGHT BLEEPING NOW,and when that happens you are excited,the adrenaline is pumping,and you don't have the time to pull a gun,jack a round in the chamber,and then point it at your attacker and shoot them. And that is IF you can even remember to jack a round in the chamber.
Hell,there are people who have been killed because they forgot to disengage their safety. Which is the prime reason why I always recommend revolvers for people who are newbies to gun ownership,and who I know will never go to a range to shoot more than once and then throw it in a bed stand drawer. Revolvers are the original "point and click device".
They are also the safest guns for newbies because they aren't always fumbling with the damn thing to see if it's loaded. I never have that problem with any of my semi-autos because they are all always loaded. I do try to remember to swap out magazines at least once a year for one that has a new spring,but there is never any question in my mind about any of my guns being loaded.
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@starstruck
WHY is that a problem. PLEASE tell us you aren't one of the idiots that carries a semi-auto with an empty chamber!
The FACT is you almost never need a gun until you need one RIGHT BLEEPING NOW,and when that happens you are excited,the adrenaline is pumping,and you don't have the time to pull a gun,jack a round in the chamber,and then point it at your attacker and shoot them. And that is IF you can even remember to jack a round in the chamber.
Hell,there are people who have been killed because they forgot to disengage their safety. Which is the prime reason why I always recommend revolvers for people who are newbies to gun ownership,and who I know will never go to a range to shoot more than once and then throw it in a bed stand drawer. Revolvers are the original "point and click device".
They are also the safest guns for newbies because they aren't always fumbling with the damn thing to see if it's loaded. I never have that problem with any of my semi-autos because they are all always loaded. I do try to remember to swap out magazines at least once a year for one that has a new spring,but there is never any question in my mind about any of my guns being loaded.
Where did you get all that from saying my wife has trouble pulling the slide back. When we go to the range she doesn't feel comfortable not being able to reload her own weapon. My conceal carry is a Glock. Round chambered and doesn't have a safety.
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@andy58-in-nh
Buying hollowpoints for a 38 snubby is throwing money away because the bullet itself is designed to expand at Magnum velocities,and you will never get Magnum Velocities out of a snubgun. Not even if it is a 357 Magnum. The barrel just isn't long enough to build up the velocity. In effect,you are shooting "solids". You might as well buy and shoot the cheap 158 gr RNL bullet and be done with it.
This is why I suggested the 146 gr hollow base wad-cutter loaded backwards. It is a target bullet designed for accuracy instead of velocity,and is made from swagged lead that is so soft you can score it with a fingernail. Load these things up backwards and the whole damn flat front of them is a hollow with no point. I have had them expand from 68 to 72 caliber when fired into sand or a soft pine 2x4 when loaded to the 800 fps range. Also,you don't have to worry about them over-penetrating and harming anyone or anything behind your attacker,and every ounce of energy in the bullet is expending inside your attacker.
No,the hollowbase wadcutter is NOT a target round when loaded backwards. Still,your expected target is the torso of an adult male within 15-20 feet,so it's plenty accurate for that.
I used to load these up and give them away to female friends buying their first and only guns for self-defense when I lived out in Denver. I told them to buy a 2-1/2 to 4 inch small frame 38 Special,and only shoot these bullets thought it. I would give them a whole box of 50,and tell them to go to a indoor range and shoot 39 or 40 of them at man-sized silhouette targets at 15-20 feet so they had some idea of what they needed to do,and save the remaining 5 or 6 loaded bullets to carry. Of course,I also told them if they needed more to just bring me the brass and I'd load up another box for them any time they needed it.
PERFECT round for apartment dwellers to use for self-defense in a city because of the low penetration.
Thanks again for the knowledgeable input. Right now, I am using Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain FTX rounds for the .38, which seem to have better expansion at the lower velocity they produce. I also use Hornadys and also Federal Premium HS for my .45ACP, but that's a whole other discussion. ^-^
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If you are carrying anything that has less than a 4" barrel the ONLY ammo you should have in it is Federal HST!
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Where did you get all that from saying my wife has trouble pulling the slide back.
From your statement saying a revolver is a better carry and self-defense gun for her because she has trouble pulling the slide back.
And,yes,I HAVE known people in the past that carried semi-auto's with an empty chamber for self-defense "because it's safer".
@starstruck
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Thanks again for the knowledgeable input. Right now, I am using Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain FTX rounds for the .38, which seem to have better expansion at the lower velocity they produce. I also use Hornadys and also Federal Premium HS for my .45ACP, but that's a whole other discussion. ^-^
@andy58-in-nh
Well,there are two schools of thought about bullets. There is the crowd that swears by hyper-velocity,and the crowd that swears by big,heavy,slow bullets.
I am firmly in the big-heavy,slow camp. Big,slow,heavy bullets hit harder and don't over penetrate. It does you no good at all to have a million foot pounds of energy if all of it is wasted on the building behind your target,and all it takes to become convinced of how lethal big,slow,heavy soft bullets can be is to look at a few photos of Civil War wounds,and consider the bullet weighs and velocities of rounds used for big,dangerous game.
High velocity is a HUGE advantage for shooting at long distances because the bullets obviously have a flatter trajectory,but for self-defense against humans at close range,it's hard to beat the old 44 Special and 45 Long Colt rounds at blackpowder velocities. Especially when you consider the bullet designs available to today and look at how effective they were for over 100 years shooting round nosed lead bullets.
Since anything chambered for a 45 LC round is obviously too big to be a pocket gun,my favorite "go to town" gun is a 3 inch 44 Special DAO Rossi with no hammer spur,no rear sight,and a fixed front sight. I used to carry Charter Arms,but back then they were obviously being made to carry instead of shoot. A couple of boxes of moderate loads would loosen one up. Not the case with the stainless Rossi.
BTW,I have ZERO knowledge as to the quality of the current Charter Arms Bulldog revolvers. They might be as well-built and strong as any gun on the market today for all I know.
BTW,Taurus bought out Rossi several years ago and killed the Rossi 44 because it competed with their own 44 Special,which was more expensive and too large to ever be a pocket pistol. If you ever spot a new or like-new Rossi 44 Special at a gun show,buy it! I paid around 210 bucks for mine new,and literally wouldn't sell it for 1,000 bucks unless I knew where there was another one I could buy right away.
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Pics to come shortly...settled on my first weapon/concealed carry piece.
S&W MP Bodyguard .38 ^-^
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Pics to come shortly...settled on my first weapon/concealed carry piece.
S&W MP Bodyguard .38 ^-^
@txradioguy
Don't waste your money on +9 rounds for it unless the barrel is 4 inches long at a minimum. Go with swaged wadcutters.