The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: Weird Tolkienish Figure on June 01, 2020, 02:42:25 pm
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https://twitter.com/TheBruceMasters/status/1267368091291471873
How come I haven't seen this yet?
Anyone?
It doesn't necessarily excuse the cop's actions, but it puts things in a new light, IMO.
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https://twitter.com/TheBruceMasters/status/1267368091291471873
How come I haven't seen this yet?
Anyone?
It doesn't necessarily excuse the cop's actions, but it puts things in a new light, IMO.
They just mentioned this on Fox...I just now started to look for it..glad you found it.
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This and the autopsy do not excuse this cop's tactics, but they do reduce the impact of the media's current narrative.
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This and the autopsy do not excuse this cop's tactics, but they do reduce the impact of the media's current narrative.
But the damage—and the viral spread—is done.
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The Propaganda Ministry For the Left-wing Fascist Agenda still won't admit that Rodney King was a career criminal who was fighting the police after he was finally stopped at the end of a car chase that reached speeds of up to 100 mph in a residential neighborhood.
it doesn't fit their narrative. An' the narrative is that white conservatives are raysis. Cops are raysis. Orange Man Bad.
Anything else must (even the truth) must be ignored at all cost.
:pop41:
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But the damage—and the viral spread—is done.
The hosts on Fox & the rest have to stop glorifying the protests. They are NOT about having 'voices heard', they aren't healthy therapy. They're ginning up anger based upon an inaccurate depiction of events.
You legitimize the protests, you excuse the riots. Period.
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Ahem...
This changes a lot of the narrative about why Mr. Floyd was "on the ground" and being restrained in the first place...
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Ahem...
This changes a lot of the narrative about why Mr. Floyd was "on the ground" and being restrained in the first place...
This is the first I've seen of it... wonder why?
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https://twitter.com/TheBruceMasters/status/1267368091291471873
How come I haven't seen this yet?
Anyone?
It doesn't necessarily excuse the cop's actions, but it puts things in a new light, IMO.
Absolutely it does.
Anyone who resists arrest is automatically engaged in criminal behavior.
The cops restrained a criminal.
And he was huge. 6'6" tall can take down most policemen and put the hurt on them.
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Absolutely it does.
Anyone who resists arrest is automatically engaged in criminal behavior.
The cops restrained a criminal.
And he was huge. 6'6" tall can take down most policemen and put the hurt on them.
He was still handcuffed. Video footage showed that he was handcuffed; hands behind his back BEFORE he was on the ground with a knee to his neck. So...what threat did he pose? Not like he can strike out at anyone. Again, his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee to his neck. So ... how much danger was he at that point? He said he couldn't breathe ...whether or not the autopsy comes back with signs of asphyxiation or not .... he died while handcuffed; hands behind his back with a cop's knee to his neck. He didn't die from gunshots, didn't die on route to the holding cell, didn't die after he was processed ... he died while his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee on his neck stating several times he couldn't breathe. Sorry IMHO, he was cuffed. He was contained. He was killed.
He was under arrest for supposedly passing a phony $20.00 ... we will never know the outcome because he will never have his day in court. $20.00 for a life.
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No, it does NOT!! He was still handcuffed. Video footage showed that he was handcuffed; hands behind his back BEFORE he was on the ground with a knee to his neck. So...what threat did he pose? Not like he can strike out at anyone. Again, his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee to his neck. So ... how much danger was he at that point? He said he couldn't breathe ...whether or not the autopsy comes back with signs of asphyxiation or not .... he died while handcuffed; hands behind his back with a cop's knee to his neck. He didn't die from gunshots, didn't die on route to the holding cell, didn't die after he was processed ... he died while his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee on his neck stating several times he couldn't breathe. Sorry IMHO, he was cuffed. He was contained. He was killed.
He was under arrest for supposedly passing a phony $20.00 ... we will never know the outcome because he will never have his day in court. $20.00 for a life.
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He was still handcuffed. Video footage showed that he was handcuffed; hands behind his back BEFORE he was on the ground with a knee to his neck. So...what threat did he pose? Not like he can strike out at anyone. Again, his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee to his neck. So ... how much danger was he at that point? He said he couldn't breathe ...whether or not the autopsy comes back with signs of asphyxiation or not .... he died while handcuffed; hands behind his back with a cop's knee to his neck. He didn't die from gunshots, didn't die on route to the holding cell, didn't die after he was processed ... he died while his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee on his neck stating several times he couldn't breathe. Sorry IMHO, he was cuffed. He was contained. He was killed.
He was under arrest for supposedly passing a phony $20.00 ... we will never know the outcome because he will never have his day in court. $20.00 for a life.
Yes, he was handcuffed... but he was also probably hopped up on drugs (past history of selling drugs and being a convicted felon)... which would make securing him in the back of that police cruiser very difficult or impossible if he was fighting it... which he apparently was. When the cops couldn't get him "secured" (they couldn't transport him unless the seat belt was locked in place)... they pulled him out and held him down... and the rest is history. Can only imagine how pissed off those cops had to be at that point.
Floyd was just another thug with a long rap sheet that resisted arrest.
Floyd had been sentenced to five years in prison in 2009 for aggravated assault stemming from a robbery where Floyd entered a woman’s home, pointed a gun at her stomach and searched the home for drugs and money, according to court records.
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/05/29/06/28943102-8367221-Floyd_had_at_least_five_stints_in_jail_In_one_of_the_charging_do-a-252_1590731928696.jpg)
Floyd had at least five stints in jail. In one of the charging documents, officials noted Floyd had two convictions in the 1990s for theft and delivery of a controlled substance, but it is not clear if Floyd served any time for either of those offenses.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8367221/Prosecutors-warn-evidence-does-not-support-criminal-charge-George-Floyds-killing.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8367221/Prosecutors-warn-evidence-does-not-support-criminal-charge-George-Floyds-killing.html)
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He was still handcuffed. Video footage showed that he was handcuffed; hands behind his back BEFORE he was on the ground with a knee to his neck. So...what threat did he pose? Not like he can strike out at anyone. Again, his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee to his neck. So ... how much danger was he at that point? He said he couldn't breathe ...whether or not the autopsy comes back with signs of asphyxiation or not .... he died while handcuffed; hands behind his back with a cop's knee to his neck. He didn't die from gunshots, didn't die on route to the holding cell, didn't die after he was processed ... he died while his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee on his neck stating several times he couldn't breathe. Sorry IMHO, he was cuffed. He was contained. He was killed.
He was under arrest for supposedly passing a phony $20.00 ... we will never know the outcome because he will never have his day in court. $20.00 for a life.
In the 8+ minutes that transpired with his face pressed against the ground while four other cops watched, one would think that one of the four could pull a squad car around and place the suspect in the back seat. That has been SOP any time I have been arrested.
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Yes, he was handcuffed... but he was also probably hopped up on drugs (past history of selling drugs and being a convicted felon)... which would make securing him in the back of that police cruiser very difficult or impossible if he was fighting it... which he apparently was. When the cops couldn't get him "secured" (they couldn't transport him unless the seat belt was locked in place)... they pulled him out and held him down... and the rest is history. Can only imagine how pissed off those cops had to be at that point.
Floyd was just another thug with a long rap sheet that resisted arrest.
So how and why is a guy with 6 felonies in 10 years walking around among us anyway?
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So how and why is a guy with 6 felonies in 10 years walking around among us anyway?
The same way that a cop with 18 formal complaints is still on the street. Democrats own this.
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In the 8+ minutes that transpired with his face pressed against the ground while four other cops watched, one would think that one of the four could pull a squad car around and place the suspect in the back seat. That has been SOP any time I have been arrested.
You've got the timeline wrong. He already was placed in the back seat but they couldn't secure him (seat belt) because he was fighting and resisting. That's when they pulled him back out of the vehicle and held him down on the pavement.
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So how and why is a guy with 6 felonies in 10 years walking around among us anyway?
It was Houston. Another big city run by leftist Democrat politicians, judges and police.
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And he was huge. 6'6" tall can take down most policemen and put the hurt on them.
Weren't there several cops, all on him at once.
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You've got the timeline wrong. He already was placed in the back seat but they couldn't secure him (seat belt) because he was fighting and resisting. That's when they pulled him back out of the vehicle and held him down on the pavement.
Uh, no. Never had a cop try to put a seat belt on me. In fact, I have never even seen a seat belt in the back of a cop car. The point is to get the perpetrator in the back where he is locked up and no longer a threat to anyone else. If he was already in the back of a car and they took him out, then they are definitely liable for anything that happens to him after pulling him back out. They removed him from a secure environment and returned him to an unsecure one.
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Yes, he was handcuffed... but he was also probably hopped up on drugs (past history of selling drugs and being a convicted felon)... which would make securing him in the back of that police cruiser very difficult or impossible if he was fighting it... which he apparently was. When the cops couldn't get him "secured" (they couldn't transport him unless the seat belt was locked in place)... they pulled him out and held him down... and the rest is history. Can only imagine how pissed off those cops had to be at that point.
Floyd was just another thug with a long rap sheet that resisted arrest.
Ok, he was a thug with a rap sheet. His hands were secured behind his back. Not in front where he could possibly hit or strike. He may have resisted arrest. I get that. Yes the cop was probably pretty pissed off at that point, yes, pissed off enough to use excessive force and not let up when he pleaded that he couldn't breathe. 3 others cops stood by and did nothing. So that's 4 cops on one man who had his hands handcuffed behind his back. The fact still remains, he died while handcuffed, on the ground with a knee to his neck. IMHO it doesn't matter why the knee was to the neck, but it does matter that he did while there was a knee to his neck. There's no way around that.
An independent autopsy is being done today by the family. I find it interesting that the current autopsy report indicates that he didn't die from asphyxiation, ok, then, what did he die from?? Did he have a heart attack? Did he die from blunt trauma to the neck??
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On Friday I was in complete sympathy for those protesting for justice for Mr.
Floyd and issue of police behavior toward African Americans.
Since then I have lost that sympathy as thugs have destroyed property and businesses in the very communities the protesters say they speak for.
Today I stand with the law-abiding members of those communities who need and demand law and order.
The past is prologue. 52 years ago I saw the riots in New Haven, Connecticut and they were, in retrospect, a key reason why I became a conservative. 52 years later, a new need and demand by the unprotected for an end to such pointless destruction will propel Trump, like it did to Nixon before him, to victory in November.
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An independent autopsy is being done today by the family. I find it interesting that the current autopsy report indicates that he didn't die from asphyxiation, ok, then, what did he die from?? Did he have a heart attack? Did he die from blunt trauma to the neck??
Will be interesting to hear. Also, you got to add the concern of Drug OD, or whether he had cervical spinal issues that may have precipitated a severed or cut spinal cord.
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Uh, no. Never had a cop try to put a seat belt on me. In fact, I have never even seen a seat belt in the back of a cop car. The point is to get the perpetrator in the back where he is locked up and no longer a threat to anyone else. If he was already in the back of a car and they took him out, then they are definitely liable for anything that happens to him after pulling him back out. They removed him from a secure environment and returned him to an unsecure one.
Do you remember the Freddie Gray case? Another career criminal, and a suicidal one. He had been "secured" in a police van, yet managed to kill himself... as testified by other perps in the other portion of the van.... who claimed that while stopped, they could hear him throwing himself against the walls of the van. And yet... the truth was never really exposed by leftist media. Cops were blamed. It was ruled a "homicide". See the pattern?
I'm just saying... don't fall for the leftie media BS and disinformation.
Freddie Gray, the 25-year-old Baltimore man who died after being injured while in police custody, had a lengthy criminal record before his fatal run-in with police on April 12, 2015. He had previously been arrested at least 18 times and had been in and out of prison since 2008, court records show.
https://heavy.com/news/2015/04/freddie-gray-arrest-criminal-record-convictions-court-documents-files-rap-sheet-drug-charges/
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On Friday I was in complete sympathy for those protesting for justice for Mr.
Floyd and issue of police behavior toward African Americans.
Since then I have lost that sympathy as thugs have destroyed property and businesses in the very communities the protesters say they speak for.
Today I stand with the law-abiding members of those communities who need and demand law and order.
@Jazzhead
So how are things looking today in the city of Brotherly Love?
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Ok, he was a thug with a rap sheet. His hands were secured behind his back. Not in front where he could possibly hit or strike. He may have resisted arrest. I get that. Yes the cop was probably pretty pissed off at that point, yes, pissed off enough to use excessive force and not let up when he pleaded that he couldn't breathe. 3 others cops stood by and did nothing. So that's 4 cops on one man who had his hands handcuffed behind his back. The fact still remains, he died while handcuffed, on the ground with a knee to his neck. IMHO it doesn't matter why the knee was to the neck, but it does matter that he did while there was a knee to his neck. There's no way around that.
An independent autopsy is being done today by the family. I find it interesting that the current autopsy report indicates that he didn't die from asphyxiation, ok, then, what did he die from?? Did he have a heart attack? Did he die from blunt trauma to the neck??
I read one article which said that he died later at the hospital. And the toxicology report will probably never be released or if it is, it may not be ""truthful"". I'm betting that he had major drugs in his system, but the narrative is to show the guy was a poor, innocent black just trying to get his life together. And the autopsy by the family will probably show nothing different. They'll be looking to cash in, like the others before them. Just sayin....
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Will be interesting to hear. Also, you got to add the concern of Drug OD, or whether he had cervical spinal issues that may have precipitated a severed or cut spinal cord.
OK ... I didn't see this report:
The Hennepin County medical examiner said the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in the 46-year-old's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death. It revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death.
Let's hope that the examiner that the family hired is honest and can't be boug
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/floyd-family-seeks-independent-autopsy-police-brutality-victim-200531082933250.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/floyd-family-seeks-independent-autopsy-police-brutality-victim-200531082933250.html)
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OK ... I didn't see this report:
The Hennepin County medical examiner said the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in the 46-year-old's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death. It revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death.
Let's hope that the examiner that the family hired is honest and can't be boug
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/floyd-family-seeks-independent-autopsy-police-brutality-victim-200531082933250.html (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/floyd-family-seeks-independent-autopsy-police-brutality-victim-200531082933250.html)
Potential intoxicants = hard core drugs. :whistle:
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OK ... I didn't see this report:
The Hennepin County medical examiner said the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in the 46-year-old's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death. It revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death.
Let's hope that the examiner that the family hired is honest and can't be boug
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The man never lost the ability to speak during the entire sad event. That pretty much ruled out choking from the get go.
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I want to hear the defense arguments first before I accept as fact that the officer callously murdered George Floyd. Watching police procedures in tense situations can look awfully brutal to bystanders.
At this point, though it’s entirely possible that there were unfortunate pre existing circumstances which lead directly to or contributed to Mr. Floyd’s death.
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@Jazzhead
So how are things looking today in the city of Brotherly Love?
As of now the inmates are running the asylum. Looting in many areas, not just downtown where the rich folks shop but in the black neighborhoods that burned 50 years ago. I infuriated a liberal colleague today by refusing to take the trouble to distinguish peaceful protesters from looters. I won't do so unless and until the "protesters" take the trouble to explain to me how to tell the difference.
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https://twitter.com/TheBruceMasters/status/1267368091291471873
It doesn't necessarily excuse the cop's actions, but it puts things in a new light, IMO.
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So let's evaluate.
Earlier incident reports(?) Lloyd attacking Officers, Death count: zero.
Later incident shows Officer kneeling on Lloyd's neck, Death count: 1
According to the usual suspects, who will rationalize
anything, no matter how asinine, we've got offsetting fouls?
Why of course!!!
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As of now the inmates are running the asylum. Looting in many areas, not just downtown where the rich folks shop but in the black neighborhoods that burned 50 years ago. I infuriated a liberal colleague today by refusing to take the trouble to distinguish peaceful protesters from looters. I won't do so unless and until the "protesters" take the trouble to explain to me how to tell the difference.
The media tendency to go out of their way to speak complimentarily of the 'protestors' is what give the rioters cover.
If I were a cop I would be pretty reticent to go after anyone 'rioting' as long as the media were able to portray them as a saintly protestor.
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The man never lost the ability to speak during the entire sad event. That pretty much ruled out choking from the get go.
Or you can look at it .... he was able to speak until he was no longer breathing.
Either way ... it doesn't rule out excessive force or being traumatized. Drug use and heart disease could obviously be a factor, but if he wasn't under the trauma of having a knee to the neck, would he have survived? Quite possibly yes.
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So let's evaluate.
Earlier incident reports(?) Lloyd attacking Officers, Death count: zero.
Later incident shows Officer kneeling on Lloyd's neck, Death count: 1
According to the usual suspects, who will rationalize
anything, no matter how asinine, we've got offsetting fouls?
Why of course!!!
Absolutely agree.
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Facts (in no particular order and I'll probably forget some):
There has been a conspicuous lack of footage from the moment he's led to the car and the time when he is restrained on the ground. (Supposition: I highly doubt those LEO's just got a wild hair to throw a compliant arrestee on the ground and forcibly detain him....something happened. It now appears we know what...he wasn't compliant.)
The kneeling on the neck thing is known and used by every patrol officer, pretty much everywhere. It's real friggin' hard to get up when you're handcuffed and someone is kneeling on your neck.
Ever watched Cops or LivePD? The "I can't breathe" thing is uttered by pretty much EVERY arrestee who has to be forcibly detained. (Supposition: LEO's don't even hear that anymore...all they hear is blah, blah, blah)
A disproportionate number of the interactions between LEO's and arrestees/detainees involve African Americans. They far outpace their percentage of the population. (Is this because they're committing most of the crime or because police presence is heavier in their areas. I have my own thoughts but for sake of this: chicken or the egg....doesn't matter)
According to the preliminary autopsy, Mr Floyd did not die from asphyxiation or strangulation, but rather from previous medical conditions. (Supposition: if he had a heart attack, it likely was as a result of the stress of the situation and the manner in which he was forcibly detained)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Leaving facts, now just thinking out loud:
Had Mr Floyd elected to remain compliant, he would be alive today. That said, kneeling on a handcuffed subjects neck is utterly ridiculous. I don't believe those officers (there were three kneeling on him) intended to kill him, but their action's likely directly resulted in his death. At least one if not two are likely on the hook for a successful Manslaughter charge.
I would love to actually have a conversation with an intellectually honest broker from the black community.
I'll concede that part of their experience involves things like being stopped from broken taillights (more often) and formerly "stop and frisk", etc.
I'll concede that really sucks, it would piss me off if my regular interactions with LE were as a result of others' actions.
I'll concede that there seems to be some problems with how some forcible detentions go down.
I'll concede that LBJ and the Democrats have absolutely destroyed the woven tapestry of the black family, and that is utterly tragic.
White America did some horrible things to many of their ancestors.
And I'd probably be quite willing to concede lots of other things that are just not coming to mind right now.
Ahhh...but would i get the following concessions:
Their interactions with LE are in large (not total, but large) part due to the lawlessness of a disproportionate number of their population...to the point that to the outsider it APPEARS (!!!) to be something that is embraced by the culture.
Thus, their interactions with LE could be dramatically improved if that cultural viewpoint were to VISIBLY shift towards denouncing lawlessness.
That they have allowed the black family to be destroyed only to be replaced by Uncle Sugar, with all the associated ills of poverty and children born out of wedlock, marriage rates plummeting, etc, etc.
The single greatest problem their community faces right now is that they are killing each other by the hundreds every single week. How is that my fault?
White America has done more to atone for the sins of our ancestors than ANY other people in the history of humanity.
Just some thoughts that been rattlin' around in my melon today.
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The media tendency to go out of their way to speak complimentarily of the 'protestors' is what give the rioters cover.
If I were a cop I would be pretty reticent to go after anyone 'rioting' as long as the media were able to portray them as a saintly protestor.
And that's exactly the end result that the radical left pro-criminal, anti-cop leftists want.
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Facts (in no particular order and I'll probably forget some):
There has been a conspicuous lack of footage from the moment he's led to the car and the time when he is restrained on the ground. (Supposition: I highly doubt those LEO's just got a wild hair to throw a compliant arrestee on the ground and forcibly detain him....something happened. It now appears we know what...he wasn't compliant.)
The kneeling on the neck thing is known and used by every patrol officer, pretty much everywhere. It's real friggin' hard to get up when you're handcuffed and someone is kneeling on your neck.
Ever watched Cops or LivePD? The "I can't breathe" thing is uttered by pretty much EVERY arrestee who has to be forcibly detained. (Supposition: LEO's don't even hear that anymore...all they hear is blah, blah, blah)
A disproportionate number of the interactions between LEO's and arrestees/detainees involve African Americans. They far outpace their percentage of the population. (Is this because they're committing most of the crime or because police presence is heavier in their areas. I have my own thoughts but for sake of this: chicken or the egg....doesn't matter)
According to the preliminary autopsy, Mr Floyd did not die from asphyxiation or strangulation, but rather from previous medical conditions. (Supposition: if he had a heart attack, it likely was as a result of the stress of the situation and the manner in which he was forcibly detained)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Leaving facts, now just thinking out loud:
Had Mr Floyd elected to remain compliant, he would be alive today. That said, kneeling on a handcuffed subjects neck is utterly ridiculous. I don't believe those officers (there were three kneeling on him) intended to kill him, but their action's likely directly resulted in his death. At least one if not two are likely on the hook for a successful Manslaughter charge.
I would love to actually have a conversation with an intellectually honest broker from the black community.
I'll concede that part of their experience involves things like being stopped from broken taillights (more often) and formerly "stop and frisk", etc.
I'll concede that really sucks, it would piss me off if my regular interactions with LE were as a result of others' actions.
I'll concede that there seems to be some problems with how some forcible detentions go down.
I'll concede that LBJ and the Democrats have absolutely destroyed the woven tapestry of the black family, and that is utterly tragic.
White America did some horrible things to many of their ancestors.
And I'd probably be quite willing to concede lots of other things that are just not coming to mind right now.
Ahhh...but would i get the following concessions:
Their interactions with LE are in large (not total, but large) part due to the lawlessness of a disproportionate number of their population...to the point that to the outsider it APPEARS (!!!) to be something that is embraced by the culture.
Thus, their interactions with LE could be dramatically improved if that cultural viewpoint were to VISIBLY shift towards denouncing lawlessness.
That they have allowed the black family to be destroyed only to be replaced by Uncle Sugar, with all the associated ills of poverty and children born out of wedlock, marriage rates plummeting, etc, etc.
The single greatest problem their community faces right now is that they are killing each other by the hundreds every single week. How is that my fault?
White America has done more to atone for the sins of our ancestors than ANY other people in the history of humanity.
Just some thoughts that been rattlin' around in my melon today.
Well, .... let's take the race card out of the scenario first of all. The man's hands were handcuffed BEHIND his back. He DIED while an officer had his knee on his neck while stating that he couldn't breathe. It doesn't matter how many cops have used this method before, nor does it matter how many arrested have used the tactic that they can't breathe. A man died while handcuffed with a cop's knee on his neck. Doesn't matter why the knee was on the neck; at that point in time that cop wasn't in danger. The cop had control of the man and used enough force to kill him. Period.
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Facts (in no particular order and I'll probably forget some):
There has been a conspicuous lack of footage from the moment he's led to the car and the time when he is restrained on the ground. (Supposition: I highly doubt those LEO's just got a wild hair to throw a compliant arrestee on the ground and forcibly detain him....something happened. It now appears we know what...he wasn't compliant.)
The kneeling on the neck thing is known and used by every patrol officer, pretty much everywhere. It's real friggin' hard to get up when you're handcuffed and someone is kneeling on your neck.
Ever watched Cops or LivePD? The "I can't breathe" thing is uttered by pretty much EVERY arrestee who has to be forcibly detained. (Supposition: LEO's don't even hear that anymore...all they hear is blah, blah, blah)
A disproportionate number of the interactions between LEO's and arrestees/detainees involve African Americans. They far outpace their percentage of the population. (Is this because they're committing most of the crime or because police presence is heavier in their areas. I have my own thoughts but for sake of this: chicken or the egg....doesn't matter)
According to the preliminary autopsy, Mr Floyd did not die from asphyxiation or strangulation, but rather from previous medical conditions. (Supposition: if he had a heart attack, it likely was as a result of the stress of the situation and the manner in which he was forcibly detained)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Leaving facts, now just thinking out loud:
Had Mr Floyd elected to remain compliant, he would be alive today. That said, kneeling on a handcuffed subjects neck is utterly ridiculous. I don't believe those officers (there were three kneeling on him) intended to kill him, but their action's likely directly resulted in his death. At least one if not two are likely on the hook for a successful Manslaughter charge.
I would love to actually have a conversation with an intellectually honest broker from the black community.
I'll concede that part of their experience involves things like being stopped from broken taillights (more often) and formerly "stop and frisk", etc.
I'll concede that really sucks, it would piss me off if my regular interactions with LE were as a result of others' actions.
I'll concede that there seems to be some problems with how some forcible detentions go down.
I'll concede that LBJ and the Democrats have absolutely destroyed the woven tapestry of the black family, and that is utterly tragic.
White America did some horrible things to many of their ancestors.
And I'd probably be quite willing to concede lots of other things that are just not coming to mind right now.
Ahhh...but would i get the following concessions:
Their interactions with LE are in large (not total, but large) part due to the lawlessness of a disproportionate number of their population...to the point that to the outsider it APPEARS (!!!) to be something that is embraced by the culture.
Thus, their interactions with LE could be dramatically improved if that cultural viewpoint were to VISIBLY shift towards denouncing lawlessness.
That they have allowed the black family to be destroyed only to be replaced by Uncle Sugar, with all the associated ills of poverty and children born out of wedlock, marriage rates plummeting, etc, etc.
The single greatest problem their community faces right now is that they are killing each other by the hundreds every single week. How is that my fault?
White America has done more to atone for the sins of our ancestors than ANY other people in the history of humanity.
Just some thoughts that been rattlin' around in my melon today.
I'll add there has been a conspicuous absence of info on the other officers involved. I'm guessing they may have been a more diverse lot than the media would like.
Maybe there's been more coverage of them on local news, I don't know.
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This doesn't mean the officer is off the hook. It may mean a weakening of "depraved indifference" and another look at the murder 3 charge. Maybe.
I'd still like to see the actual training manual for the Minneapolis police department .... the one this officer trained under, any updates and handwritten clarifications.
Again, not to take the officer off the hook, but to help make sure the hook he's hung on is the right one.
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I'll add there has been a conspicuous absence of info on the other officers involved. I'm guessing they may have been a more diverse lot than the media would like.
Maybe there's been more coverage of them on local news, I don't know.
Officers Lane, Thao and Kueng.
And now we know why the media is so uninterested in covering them.
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This doesn't mean the officer is off the hook. It may mean a weakening of "depraved indifference" and another look at the murder 3 charge. Maybe.
I'd still like to see the actual training manual for the Minneapolis police department .... the one this officer trained under, any updates and handwritten clarifications.
Again, not to take the officer off the hook, but to help make sure the hook he's hung on is the right one.
I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that a charge of murder shows a deliberate attempt to kill someone.
With Floyd resisting arrest, manslaughter might cover this killing.
I agree with your suggestion that Floyd resisting arrest might reduce the charge, but again, I'm not a lawyer.
Although even someone resisting arrest cannot be deliberately killed. I think Chauvin might just be one of those really stupid persons with a Big Man complex. I don't know what was going through his head. You would think if you had your knee on the neck of person for nine minutes who was not struggling, you'd take it off when the struggle ceased.
No matter what different autopsies say, Floyd would most likely not be dead if Chauvin hadn't put his knee on his neck for nine minutes.
Just stupid and senseless.
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I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that a charge of murder shows a deliberate attempt to kill someone.
With Floyd resisting arrest, manslaughter might cover this killing.
I agree with your suggestion that Floyd resisting arrest might reduce the charge, but again, I'm not a lawyer.
Although even someone resisting arrest cannot be deliberately killed. I think Chauvin might just be one of those really stupid persons with a Big Man complex. I don't know what was going through his head. You would think if you had your knee on the neck of person for nine minutes who was not struggling, you'd take it off when the struggle ceased.
No matter what different autopsies say, Floyd would most likely not be dead if Chauvin hadn't put his knee on his neck for nine minutes.
Just stupid and senseless.
That’s the part that’s hard to get past, that he did not or would not recognize Mr. Floyd’s humanity. That’s not how we want our police officers to be. We don’t want robocops patrolling our neighborhoods.
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I'm a bit of a stickler, but...How do I know the person kicking up the ruckus in the patrol car was actually Mr. Floyd? I could not see him in the video in the tweet in the original post.
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In the 8+ minutes that transpired with his face pressed against the ground while four other cops watched, one would think that one of the four could pull a squad car around and place the suspect in the back seat. That has been SOP any time I have been arrested.
The two cops I interviewed (I understand their bias, interested in the mechanics) said they likely left him there to protect him from doing himself further injury... No more need to tussel till the ambulance got there... They knew he was in need of medical, and subdued him till they came.
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The same way that a cop with 18 formal complaints is still on the street. Democrats own this.
Nonsense... All dismissed by IAD. Two official reprimands in his jacket in twenty years. Also two Medals of Valor.
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Weren't there several cops, all on him at once.
Typical. Has happened to me too.
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The two cops I interviewed (I understand their bias, interested in the mechanics) said they likely left him there to protect him from doing himself further injury... No more need to tussel till the ambulance got there... They knew he was in need of medical, and subdued him till they came.
The independent autopsy has been completed. Death by asphyxiation. The results are consistent with what everyone has seen on film. He was more than subdued.
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yes, pissed off enough to use excessive force and not let up when he pleaded that he couldn't breathe.
He was not using excessive force.
3 others cops stood by and did nothing. So that's 4 cops on one man who had his hands handcuffed behind his back.
That should tell you something.
The fact still remains, he died while handcuffed, on the ground with a knee to his neck. IMHO it doesn't matter why the knee was to the neck, but it does matter that he did while there was a knee to his neck. There's no way around that.
No, the knee to his neck was incidental. Failure to render aid is true.
An independent autopsy is being done today by the family. I find it interesting that the current autopsy report indicates that he didn't die from asphyxiation, ok, then, what did he die from?? Did he have a heart attack? Did he die from blunt trauma to the neck??
The existing report is a preliminary report.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/29/george-floyd-died-police-restraint-combined-health/ (https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/29/george-floyd-died-police-restraint-combined-health/)
It found no asphyxiation or strangulation... As I predicted, because that pin hold cannot cut off air, as I know, having had it administered to me with more than average prejudice, more than once.
Preliminary findings from a Tuesday autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found “no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxiation or strangulation,†according to the criminal complaint filed Friday against former officer Derek Michael Chauvin.
“Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,†said the complaint from the Hennepin County Attorney. “The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.â€
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Will be interesting to hear. Also, you got to add the concern of Drug OD, or whether he had cervical spinal issues that may have precipitated a severed or cut spinal cord.
THAT would be consistent with excessive force due to that hold.
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The man never lost the ability to speak during the entire sad event. That pretty much ruled out choking from the get go.
That's right.
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Or you can look at it .... he was able to speak until he was no longer breathing.
Either way ... it doesn't rule out excessive force or being traumatized. Drug use and heart disease could obviously be a factor, but if he wasn't under the trauma of having a knee to the neck, would he have survived? Quite possibly yes.
The knee to the neck does not block the airway.
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Just some thoughts that been rattlin' around in my melon today.
Good post.
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Well, .... let's take the race card out of the scenario first of all. The man's hands were handcuffed BEHIND his back. He DIED while an officer had his knee on his neck while stating that he couldn't breathe. It doesn't matter how many cops have used this method before, nor does it matter how many arrested have used the tactic that they can't breathe. A man died while handcuffed with a cop's knee on his neck. Doesn't matter why the knee was on the neck; at that point in time that cop wasn't in danger.
OR they kept him pinned to prevent him from doing further injury to himself.
The cop had control of the man and used enough force to kill him. Period.
Not true. What would result is a broken neck, not a blocked airway.
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I read one article which said that he died later at the hospital. And the toxicology report will probably never be released or if it is, it may not be ","truthful"". I'm betting that he had major drugs in his system, but the narrative is to show the guy was a poor, innocent black just trying to get his life together. And the autopsy by the family will probably show nothing different. They'll be looking to cash in, like the others before them.
------------------------------------
Floyd died of asphyxia, per an independent autopsy caused
by leg pressure and the charge was raised to MURDER 1.
Another bullseye. Well done!!!
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By the way, many cardiovascular problems can cause dyspnea (shortness of breath). Autopsy found Mr. Floyd had cardiovascular disease. If it was advanced disease it could certainly have added, in that tense situation, the possibility of the onset of dyspnea.
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@roamer_1 George Floyd's family releases independent autopsy showing death caused by asphyxia from sustained pressure
Attorneys for George Floyd's family released the results of an independent autopsy report Monday showing that Floyd's death was caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain.
The family's attorney, Ben Crump, announced the autopsy results during an afternoon news conference. Crump said the autopsy found the compression cut off blood to Floyd's brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/results-of-george-floyd-independent-autopsy-expected-today (https://www.foxnews.com/us/results-of-george-floyd-independent-autopsy-expected-today)
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Although even someone resisting arrest cannot be deliberately killed. I think Chauvin might just be one of those really stupid persons with a Big Man complex. I don't know what was going through his head. You would think if you had your knee on the neck of person for nine minutes who was not struggling, you'd take it off when the struggle ceased.
No matter what different autopsies say, Floyd would most likely not be dead if Chauvin hadn't put his knee on his neck for nine minutes.
Just stupid and senseless.
Look closely at the footage. Floyd raises his head... even his neck raises. There is no pressure coming from that knee, or he would be stapled down hard.
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------------------------------------
Floyd died of asphyxia, per an independent autopsy caused
by leg pressure and the charge was raised to MURDER 1.
Another bullseye. Well done!!!
So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's M.E. findings? That doesn't sound correct or make sense.
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The independent autopsy has been completed. Death by asphyxiation. The results are consistent with what everyone has seen on film. He was more than subdued.
Flat out wrong. I would question the veracity (bias) of the coroner. Certainly for play in the press. I would wager the full autopsy - the one that actually has to stand up in court (likely in another venue) will be the one to tell the tale.
And what people see, they see in ignorance. I am telling you, you cannot be choked out with that hold. Your neck would break first.
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So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's findings? That doesn't sound correct or make sense.
Politics. We will see how it holds up at trial. The feds are in it too. See how their report reads in...
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Flat out wrong. I would question the veracity (bias) of the coroner. Certainly for play in the press. I would wager the full autopsy - the one that actually has to stand up in court (likely in another venue) will be the one to tell the tale.
And what people see, they see in ignorance. I am telling you, you cannot be choked out with that hold. Your neck would break first.
@roamer_1 I believe what you are telling me ... we now have 2 different autopsy reports. The one that the family hired is noted in controversial cases; one being Epstein.
How is either report going to be proven incorrect unless there's yet a 3rd autopsy, but if that isn't to the liking of the family, then a 4th, etc? There has to be a solution.
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@roamer_1 I believe what you are telling me ... we now have 2 different autopsy reports. The one that the family hired is noted in controversial cases; one being Epstein.
How is either report going to be proven incorrect unless there's yet a 3rd autopsy, but if that isn't to the liking of the family, then a 4th, etc? There has to be a solution.
No we have one PRELIMINARY report
and one hasty report made in rebuttal, that cannot begin to consider everything. There is no way they have tox screening back, as an instance.
We will see if the actual coroner is willing to change his findings based upon the new findings. I will bet money he won't.
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He was still handcuffed. Video footage showed that he was handcuffed; hands behind his back BEFORE he was on the ground with a knee to his neck. So...what threat did he pose? Not like he can strike out at anyone. Again, his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee to his neck. So ... how much danger was he at that point? He said he couldn't breathe ...whether or not the autopsy comes back with signs of asphyxiation or not .... he died while handcuffed; hands behind his back with a cop's knee to his neck. He didn't die from gunshots, didn't die on route to the holding cell, didn't die after he was processed ... he died while his hands were handcuffed behind his back with a knee on his neck stating several times he couldn't breathe. Sorry IMHO, he was cuffed. He was contained. He was killed.
He was under arrest for supposedly passing a phony $20.00 ... we will never know the outcome because he will never have his day in court. $20.00 for a life.
We are not disagreeing. A big man fighting back against cops trying to restrain him is not easy to deal with, and a throw down seemed warranted.
What does not appear warranted was a continued restraint like the officer did on his neck.
And BTW, a handcuffed man on the ground can still land very strong kicks to the groin or abdomen. Don't know if that happened or not, but can certainly cause a more aggressive restraint.
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What does not appear warranted was a continued restraint like the officer did on his neck.
Again, I will reiterate, anecdotally, that the cops I spoke to about this seem to think that he was probably restraining him so he did not cause himself more injury. The ambulance was already nearly there, and perhaps it was determined to leave him thus rather than to fight getting him into the car sommore.
I DO agree with a failure to render aid. I DO agree the cop should have attended him.
But that assumes he knew. For all he knew the guy passed out, if he knew at all. Maybe he thought he had just calmed down.
That I think is probably true. I do not believe that decorated cop would purposefully kill a man in full view of a crowd full of cameras. Likewise I do not believe he broke protocol, for the same reason. The same goes for the other cops involved. I do not believe they would intentionally disregard his fate, if not for their humanity (which I would presume) then for the bare fact they were being filmed.
I hope that cooler heads will prevail.
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Again, I will reiterate, anecdotally, that the cops I spoke to about this seem to think that he was probably restraining him so he did not cause himself more injury. The ambulance was already nearly there, and perhaps it was determined to leave him thus rather than to fight getting him into the car sommore.
I DO agree with a failure to render aid. I DO agree the cop should have attended him.
But that assumes he knew. For all he knew the guy passed out, if he knew at all. Maybe he thought he had just calmed down.
That I think is probably true. I do not believe that decorated cop would purposefully kill a man in full view of a crowd full of cameras. Likewise I do not believe he broke protocol, for the same reason. The same goes for the other cops involved. I do not believe they would intentionally disregard his fate, if not for their humanity (which I would presume) then for the bare fact they were being filmed.
I hope that cooler heads will prevail.
All this will be figured out over time. Either by an investigation or during the course of a trial
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So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's M.E. findings? That doesn't sound correct or make sense.
Why don't they just remand the cop to the custody of the Floyd family and be done with it?
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@roamer_1 George Floyd's family releases independent autopsy showing death caused by asphyxia from sustained pressure
Attorneys for George Floyd's family released the results of an independent autopsy report Monday showing that Floyd's death was caused by asphyxia due to neck and back compression that led to a lack of blood flow to the brain.
The family's attorney, Ben Crump, announced the autopsy results during an afternoon news conference. Crump said the autopsy found the compression cut off blood to Floyd's brain, and weight on his back made it hard to breathe.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/results-of-george-floyd-independent-autopsy-expected-today (https://www.foxnews.com/us/results-of-george-floyd-independent-autopsy-expected-today)
Bennie Crump. Now where have I heard that name before? Oh right. He's the slimy bambulance chaser who convinced the families of the"Gentle Giant" in Ferguson an' Sock Monkey's adopted son in Florida to sue, didn't he?
:pop41:
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@roamer_1 @libertybele
Actually I think in large part you’re probably both right. As I noted in my long post on the last page (thanks for the kudos roamer), there were three officers on him. That neck hold is used all the time, but the optics of that hold and the fact the man died ain’t gonna win any court cases. But the other cop, who was on his back probably greatly exacerbated any issues that were occurring. You’re not gonna choke out from that shin to the neck, but 200lbs on your back where it’s harder to expand your lungs with every exhale? Yep.
I will be amazed if there are not two cops locked up before this is done.
But again: he would be alive had he not resisted and the LEOs are screwed due to negligence if nothing else.
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That neck hold is used all the time, but the optics of that hold and the fact the man died ain’t gonna win any court cases. But the other cop, who was on his back probably greatly exacerbated any issues that were occurring. You’re not gonna choke out from that shin to the neck, but 200lbs on your back where it’s harder to expand your lungs with every exhale? Yep.
I will be amazed if there are not two cops locked up before this is done.
But again: he would be alive had he not resisted and the LEOs are screwed due to negligence if nothing else.
@Axeslinger
That's probably right. The guy on his back would cause breathing issues, and that entirely depends upon how long he remained there. But they KNOW that. I do not know how long he was under the swarm, but as that generally occurs, once the head pin is accomplished and cuffs applied (applied earlier in this case), the swarm lets up. I would not expect that particular part lasted very long.
Negligence is likely perhaps. But I don't think it was intended.
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All this will be figured out over time. Either by an investigation or during the course of a trial
Yes. :beer:
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Typical. Has happened to me too.
@roamer_1
Above was in response to @truth_seeker question about were there multiple cops on him at once.
Absolutely! They police are not in the business of a “fair fightâ€. They are in the business of overwhelming you to make sure they go home that night. ZERO problems with that. Zero problems with knee on the neck, zero problems with another LEO w a knee on a back etc.
BIG problem with 8 minutes. BIG problem with continuation after compliance...he was most assuredly compliant while unconscious. Like almost every one of these cases: the deceased brought the action on himself...BUT that does not necessarily preclude guilt on the part of LE.
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@Axeslinger
That's probably right. The guy on his back would cause breathing issues, and that entirely depends upon how long he remained there. But they KNOW that. I do not know how long he was under the swarm, but as that generally occurs, once the head pin is accomplished and cuffs applied (applied earlier in this case), the swarm lets up. I would not expect that particular part lasted very long.
Negligence is likely perhaps. But I don't think it was intended.
@roamer_1
I think (!!!) all three were on him most or all of those 8minutes.
And I agree it was not intentional...but they are probably still criminally liable.
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@roamer_1
Above was in response to @truth_seeker question about were there multiple cops on him at once.
Absolutely! They police are not in the business of a “fair fightâ€. They are in the business of overwhelming you to make sure they go home that night. ZERO problems with that. Zero problems with knee on the neck, zero problems with another LEO w a knee on a back etc.
Actually, that swarm technique is benign. If they were serious, he;d have been tazed or worse.
BIG problem with 8 minutes. BIG problem with continuation after compliance...he was most assuredly compliant while unconscious. Like almost every one of these cases: the deceased brought the action on himself...BUT that does not necessarily preclude guilt on the part of LE.
Again, watch the film closely. He is not pinned with force. He can lift his head, and his neck even comes up a little bit. BELIEVE ME, if that cop was transmitting pressure to his neck he would have been screaming like a little girl. I know I did.
The cop's position was more of a close-order watch. And that is exactly how it is normally done. the cop lets up for compliance. for even a little squirming, very little pressure bearing down gives incredible pain. The close-order on that position means that pressure can be supplied instantaneously as needed. But that pressure is not applied with compliance. Compliance is the goal.
I spent some time like that while a bar fight was getting sorted out. Maybe not 10 minutes, but over five, while everything was getting sorted and waiting for the paddy wagon to show up. Too many participants to secure in any other fashion.
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catfish wrote:
"So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's M.E. findings? That doesn't sound correct or make sense."
C'mon, man...
Who's now in charge of this here "investigation"?
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@roamer_1
I think (!!!) all three were on him most or all of those 8minutes.
And I agree it was not intentional...but they are probably still criminally liable.
@Axeslinger
No, I don't buy that. Most of the vid I saw three of the four cops are standing around, with the other on his neck.
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C'mon, man...
Who's now in charge of this here "investigation"?
Antifa-loving Keith Ellison
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catfish wrote:
"So the DA's office raised the Murder charge from 3 to 1 based on an independent autopsy report versus his own County's M.E. findings? That doesn't sound correct or make sense."
C'mon, man...
Who's now in charge of this here "investigation"?
My guess would be that well known bambulance chaser Bennie Crump.
:pop41:
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Well, .... let's take the race card out of the scenario first of all. The man's hands were handcuffed BEHIND his back. He DIED while an officer had his knee on his neck while stating that he couldn't breathe. It doesn't matter how many cops have used this method before, nor does it matter how many arrested have used the tactic that they can't breathe. A man died while handcuffed with a cop's knee on his neck. Doesn't matter why the knee was on the neck; at that point in time that cop wasn't in danger. The cop had control of the man and used enough force to kill him. Period.
You understand that a large number of criminals spout all kinds of lies while being arrested/detained. Looking for a little moment of opportunity to break free or harm someone. So I can understand the cops being just a bit jaded with what criminals say while being arrested/detained. He clearly resisted arrest and they were having a hard time controlling him. So it is a tough choice to reduce your restraint of him after you just fought so hard to gain control. A knee to the neck behind the ears does not cause asphyxiation or cut off blood to the brain directly. As I understand it police are trained to do that procedure to control someone who is not cooperative short of using more drastic measures. He also had just expended a lot of energy fighting with the cops in the back of the cop car. A heart attack could well be the likely cause of death.
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Again, I will reiterate, anecdotally, that the cops I spoke to about this seem to think that he was probably restraining him so he did not cause himself more injury. The ambulance was already nearly there, and perhaps it was determined to leave him thus rather than to fight getting him into the car sommore.
I DO agree with a failure to render aid. I DO agree the cop should have attended him.
But that assumes he knew. For all he knew the guy passed out, if he knew at all. Maybe he thought he had just calmed down.
That I think is probably true. I do not believe that decorated cop would purposefully kill a man in full view of a crowd full of cameras. Likewise I do not believe he broke protocol, for the same reason. The same goes for the other cops involved. I do not believe they would intentionally disregard his fate, if not for their humanity (which I would presume) then for the bare fact they were being filmed.
I hope that cooler heads will prevail.
The reason I said that was he was not the only cop present. He was handling a man much bigger than him by himself.
He would not have needed that restraint position if other cops had assisted with restraint.
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The reason I said that was he was not the only cop present. He was handling a man much bigger than him by himself.
He would not have needed that restraint position if other cops had assisted with restraint.
They DID assist when he was getting froggy, and they did assist in the takedown. Thereafter, because of the neck pin, their assistance was no longer needed. A 15 y/o girl could hold me down like that, just as I can hold down a horse.
I think they left him like that on purpose, because he was subdued (under control) per protocol no doubt (not a danger to himself or others, rendered unable to escape)... And there was no percentage in going any further till the ambulance got there.
I am going off of how other cops interpreted their actions, and it seems right to me.
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The left are all most out of time, to overwhelm the system.
Homelessness in major cities, with judges requiring they be given housing. (They are largely a product of failed drug treatment under ObamaCare, and in Calif essentially dumping rthem out of jails, onto the street).
Next Covid-19 Then next lockdown ending 40 million jobs. Finally the very week people would return, the destruction of our major cities; Luxury shopping in Calif, NYC for example.
Add international communist backed Antifa, burning, looting.
Don't overlook crippling the hoped for economic recovery, by more damage.
Looking bak to Jan5 2017, did Obama initiate a Coup d' Etat to damge, cripple, destroy Trump?
The qualtity variety of these different situations seems well beyond probable.
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They DID assist when he was getting froggy, and they did assist in the takedown. Thereafter, because of the neck pin, their assistance was no longer needed. A 15 y/o girl could hold me down like that, just as I can hold down a horse.
I think they left him like that on purpose, because he was subdued (under control) per protocol no doubt (not a danger to himself or others, rendered unable to escape)... And there was no percentage in going any further till the ambulance got there.
I am going off of how other cops interpreted their actions, and it seems right to me.
You miss the point. When he said he could not breathe when the cop had his knee on his neck, it was a clue for the cop to solicit help from other cops standing around together to restrain the perp. Only if he was alone should he have continued applying the restraint he used.
Discretion was not used in the presence of multiple officers.
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Flat out wrong. I would question the veracity (bias) of the coroner. And what people see, they see in ignorance. I am telling you, you cannot be choked out with that hold. Your neck would break first.
@roamer_1
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
What the second autopsy said was the pressure on the neck closed off the carotid arteries (one on each side of neck), stopping blood flow to the brain; and someone was on his back with enough pressure causing difficulty to breathe. Those two circumstances caused his death.
He had a long criminal history, arrested 8 times, I think it was, in Houston where they lived. He was a career criminal. Texas Rehab. sent criminals to me to psychologically test when they got out of prison. They did that in order to know if I thought they would benefit from Texas Rehab. services to train them for a job; in other words could they live by our laws and be a productive citizen or would they continue their criminal activity.
Criminals and career criminals are emotional. Career criminals can turn on a dime and steal and kill. I kept a loaded weapon in the bottom drawer of my desk and that drawer would slide open not making a sound.
One time I did open that drawer and wait to see if I was going to kill the career criminal standing up in front of my desk. He had gotten angry, stood up, said he was going to tear up the place. I knew for damn sure, if he came over the desk toward me, he was going to be dead. I kept seated, told him, "You have two choices; sit down and talk to me, or leave the office." He sat down.
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@roamer_1
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak
What the second autopsy said was the pressure on the neck closed off the carotid arteries (one on each side of neck), stopping blood flow to the brain; and someone was on his back with enough pressure causing difficulty to breathe. Those two circumstances caused his death.
He had a long criminal history, arrested 8 times, I think it was, in Houston where they lived. He was a career criminal. Texas Rehab. sent criminals to me to psychologically test when they got out of prison. They did that in order to know if I thought they would benefit from Texas Rehab. services to train them for a job; in other words could they live by our laws and be a productive citizen or would they continue their criminal activity.
Criminals and career criminals are emotional. Career criminals can turn on a dime and steal and kill. I kept a loaded weapon in the bottom drawer of my desk and that drawer would slide open not making a sound.
One time I did open that drawer and wait to see if I was going to kill the career criminal standing up in front of my desk. He had gotten angry, stood up, said he was going to tear up the place. I knew for damn sure, if he came over the desk toward me, he was going to be dead. I kept seated, told him, "You have two choices; sit down and talk to me, or leave the office." He sat down.
@Victoria33
Wow. And I thought my job was stressful
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You miss the point. When he said he could not breathe when the cop had his knee on his neck, it was a clue for the cop to solicit help from other cops standing around together to restrain the perp. Only if he was alone should he have continued applying the restraint he used.
Discretion was not used in the presence of multiple officers.
And you miss the point that criminals lie incessantly. Anything for a moment of advantage. It took all the cops present to get him under control in the first place. In fact that may have been the second round of getting him under control after they had him in the back of the cop car. Why risk doing a replay and someone getting injured? The bottom line is the perp had serious health issues. If you have serious health issues, choose to take drugs and fight with the cops the odds are your going to have a bad outcome - regardless of what color your skin is.
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Bottom line is the guy died. It shouldn't have happened no matter what drug or whatever Mr. Floyd was on.
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Bottom line is the guy died. It shouldn't have happened no matter what drug or whatever Mr. Floyd was on.
What does that mean?
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As of now the inmates are running the asylum. Looting in many areas, not just downtown where the rich folks shop but in the black neighborhoods that burned 50 years ago. I infuriated a liberal colleague today by refusing to take the trouble to distinguish peaceful protesters from looters. I won't do so unless and until the "protesters" take the trouble to explain to me how to tell the difference.
I saw a video on twitter yesterday where a rioter was hitting a concrete curb with a hammer to break it up to get chunks to use as either weapons or cause destruction. One of the protesters jumped him and others immediately came to help. They moved him, kicking and screaming, and turned him over to the police.
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You miss the point. When he said he could not breathe when the cop had his knee on his neck, it was a clue for the cop to solicit help from other cops standing around together to restrain the perp. Only if he was alone should he have continued applying the restraint he used.
Discretion was not used in the presence of multiple officers.
To what end? The cop knew he could breathe. SOP employed. Bolt him down and wait for the bus. No sense getting into another struggle with him and making him worse.
He did not asphyxiate. He died of heart failure. The position didn't do that to him, nor the restraint.
We don't even yet know if he could have been saved at all.
YES They should have rendered aid, had they known, which I don't think is evident. If it was indeed neglect, and they did indeed fail to render aid, then fine. Throw the book at em. Otherwise one is attributing motive that we don't know, and applauding the destruction of 4 officer's lives without reason or proof.
That is not the side of the angels.
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What the second autopsy said was the pressure on the neck closed off the carotid arteries (one on each side of neck), stopping blood flow to the brain; and someone was on his back with enough pressure causing difficulty to breathe. Those two circumstances caused his death.
That's how I know the second autopsy to be a load of crap @Victoria33
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Actually, that swarm technique is benign. If they were serious, he;d have been tazed or worse.
Again, watch the film closely. He is not pinned with force. He can lift his head, and his neck even comes up a little bit. BELIEVE ME, if that cop was transmitting pressure to his neck he would have been screaming like a little girl. I know I did.
That is the thing that gets me. I spoke to several officers I know. All of them agree the minute he was resisting TAZE is @$$! Yes they are Monday morning quarterbacking, but it was unanimous. I have seen some pretty big guys drop like a sack of potatoes after a tazing.
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That is the thing that gets me. I spoke to several officers I know. All of them agree the minute he was resisting TAZE is @$$! Yes they are Monday morning quarterbacking, but it was unanimous. I have seen some pretty big guys drop like a sack of potatoes after a tazing.
True (I have been tazed too, not to mention cowboy bull-prod hyjinx). But they knew he was medical - That precludes tazer. Especially suspecting heart issues. If they had tazed him he'd more likely be dead anyway. I think that's why they did as they did, using a more benign method.
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True (I have been tazed too, not to mention cowboy bull-prod hyjinx). But they knew he was medical - That precludes tazer. Especially suspecting heart issues. If they had tazed him he'd more likely be dead anyway. I think that's why they did as they did, using a more benign method.
How could they have known he had heart issues? It's not like he was wearing a medical bracelet. happy77
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How could they have known he had heart issues? It's not like he was wearing a medical bracelet. happy77
They called an ambulance for him right off the get-go.
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Bottom line is the guy died. It shouldn't have happened no matter what drug or whatever Mr. Floyd was on.
The thing is that they kept holding him down with the charged cop’s knee on his neck after he'd become non-responsive, for nearly 3 minutes, and after he’d released his bladder and stopped breathing. IMO I think Floyd resisted getting into the back the car but he was in in the car and cuffed. I think it pissed the cops off and they pulled him back out and got him on the ground as they wanted to teach him a lesson, you know - “Respect My Authority†ala Eric Cartman. In the original video, when the EMT finally shows up and takes a pulse (the cop still with his knee on Floyd’s neck), you can see there was no sense of urgency and they basically threw him on the gurney, because by now they, as in they all knew, he was already dead.
FWIW Floyd was arrested under suspicion (read that again – suspicion) of passing a counterfeit $20 bill. Not for a violent crime nor was he armed.
Yes, he had a prior record but as far as I know, had served his time and had no outstanding warrants. If the tox report is correct, he was on drugs but passing a fake bill even if he was “high†shouldn’t be a death sentence. And cops are not supposed to be judges, juries or executioners.
It seems to me to be way too many cases of cops, regardless of the races involved, going to the max amount of force when sometimes de-escalation techniques, like, simply talking to the suspect and calming him down while still protecting themselves, might prevent a lot of these deaths. But today the police are not to serve and protect but act more like a military unit were every suspect is treated as an armed enemy combatant.
And here I’m also thinking of the Daniel Shaver case. FWIW, Shaver, a white guy, was drunk at the time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc&bpctr=1591131728 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBUUx0jUKxc&bpctr=1591131728#)
There were no mass protests over Daniel Shaver’s death, but IMO there should have been. Especially after the cop got off for murdering this man.
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The thing is that they kept holding him down with the charged cop’s knee on his neck after he'd become non-responsive, for nearly 3 minutes, and after he’d released his bladder and stopped breathing. IMO I think Floyd resisted getting into the back the car but he was in in the car and cuffed. I think it pissed the cops off and they pulled him back out and got him on the ground as they wanted to teach him a lesson, you know - “Respect My Authority†ala Eric Cartman. In the original video, when the EMT finally shows up and takes a pulse (the cop still with his knee on Floyd’s neck), you can see there was no sense of urgency and they basically threw him on the gurney, because by now they, as in they all knew, he was already dead.
FWIW Floyd was arrested under suspicion (read that again – suspicion) of passing a counterfeit $20 bill. Not for a violent crime nor was he armed.
Yes, he had a prior record but as far as I know, had served his time and had no outstanding warrants. If the tox report is correct, he was on drugs but passing a fake bill even if he was “high†shouldn’t be a death sentence. And cops are not supposed to be judges, juries or executioners.
It seems to me to be way too many cases of cops, regardless of the races involved, going to the max amount of force when sometimes de-escalation techniques, like, simply talking to the suspect and calming him down while still protecting themselves, might prevent a lot of these deaths. But today the police are not to serve and protect but act more like a military unit were every suspect is treated as an armed enemy combatant.
And here I’m also thinking of the Daniel Shaver case. FWIW, Shaver, a white guy, was drunk at the time.
There were no mass protests over Daniel Shaver’s death, but IMO there should have been. Especially after the cop got off for murdering this man.
Yeah I am thinking that is mostly bullcrap.
If for no other reason than an unknown quantity of cameras in the crowd, your scenario is basically a willful destruction of their own lives and income, even if I were to accept your vilification of those cops and their humanity.
If they had no concern for the man, why would they have called an ambulance for him? If they had no concern for the man, why didn't they just haul out the tazers, a far easier, more violent and satisfying way to assert your power?
Dear lord how I wound up the defender of LEOs in this is really ironic.
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Yeah I am thinking that is mostly bullcrap.
If for no other reason than an unknown quantity of cameras in the crowd, your scenario is basically a willful destruction of their own lives and income, even if I were to accept your vilification of those cops and their humanity.
If they had no concern for the man, why would they have called an ambulance for him? If they had no concern for the man, why didn't they just haul out the tazers, a far easier, more violent and satisfying way to assert your power?
Dear lord how I wound up the defender of LEOs in this is really ironic.
You just don’t get it do you. If the police can kill George Floyd or Daniel Shaver or Breonna Taylor or Atatiana Jefferson or Justine Damond….they can do the same to you or me.
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Yeah I am thinking that is mostly bullcrap.
If for no other reason than an unknown quantity of cameras in the crowd, your scenario is basically a willful destruction of their own lives and income, even if I were to accept your vilification of those cops and their humanity.
If they had no concern for the man, why would they have called an ambulance for him? If they had no concern for the man, why didn't they just haul out the tazers, a far easier, more violent and satisfying way to assert your power?
Dear lord how I wound up the defender of LEOs in this is really ironic.
My opinion, because of all the second guessing by armchair cops and the crazy-ass rush to pronounce the officer guilty of racism and murder based on an arrest gone wrong in what is the inherent unpredictability of each encounter an officer faces. Cops are people, too. But, heck, let’s throw the white cop into the angry volcano. The suspect was black. Case closed.
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You just don’t get it do you. If the police can kill George Floyd or Daniel Shaver or Breonna Taylor or Atatiana Jefferson or Justine Damond….they can do the same to you or me.
No, I get it way better than most. My mark is carved deep in a cell at the county jail. I was a frequent flyer in my yoot. I know how this works. They did nothing to him that wasn't done to me, and I knew it was coming every time. My own damn fault.
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You just don’t get it do you. If the police can kill George Floyd or Daniel Shaver or Breonna Taylor or Atatiana Jefferson or Justine Damond….they can do the same to you or me.
I do get that. Sometimes the police act badly and they should be held accountable. The law should apply to them the same way it applies to everyone else. No issue with that whatsoever.
The issue is this specific case. The actual facts of this case matter and have zip to do with other cases. It is highly unlikely the knee killed him based on what is known. It is most likely he had a heart attack due to poor health, drugs and heavy activity fighting with the cops. There the only fault by the police would be failure to render aid - but the ambulance was already on the way.
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My opinion, because of all the second guessing by armchair cops and the crazy-ass rush to pronounce the officer guilty of racism and murder based on an arrest gone wrong in what is the inherent unpredictability of each encounter an officer faces. Cops are people, too. But, heck, let’s throw the white cop into the angry volcano. The suspect was black. Case closed.
That certainly is the case with most. And on a Conservative site at that. Heck, no one has even heard the officers' side of the story. Just_Guilty. Most just buy into the optics the MSM is selling, and in total ignorance of what was really going down.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty? What happened to the benefit of the doubt?
Let's get all the facts on the table before we crucify anyone. Especially a twenty year LEO veteran beat cop with two Medals of Valor.
Thank you - Good post.
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I do get that. Sometimes the police act badly and they should be held accountable. The law should apply to them the same way it applies to everyone else. No issue with that whatsoever.
The issue is this specific case. The actual facts of this case matter and have zip to do with other cases.
That's right. Let's get past all the emoting and get to the facts of it. And ALLOW for the presumption of innocence and reasonable adherence to protocols until then.
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That's right. Let's get past all the emoting and get to the facts of it. And ALLOW for the presumption of innocence and reasonable adherence to protocols until then.
@roamer_1
@Cyber Liberty
Dr. Boden (sp) doing the second autopsy, said the knee closed off both carotid arteries in his neck which stopped blood going to his brain. I doubt a cop knows that will happen, doubt trainer says, "Cops, if you have a neck on the ground, and keep your knee on one side of the neck for --- minutes, guy will die."
My opinion of what happened after I saw more film: I have seen film that happened before the film of his death. Floyd had been handcuffed and cop put him in car; Floyd was thrashing around in back seat, cop still outside car trying to get him still. Then, Floyd shifted to other side of car, and cops on that side got him and put him flat on ground. EMTs were coming so cops stayed where they were until EMTs got there. Floyd was 6 ft., 6 inches tall. Cops don't generally deal with someone that tall - they were taking no chances, kept him down.
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Unfortunately, the volcano god requires its sacrifice.
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This has been a great thread to read through gang.... good back and forth, good points presented. My eyesight during this time is limited by circumstances (sitting in new huge easychair) by the distance from the screen, so I read a few posts and rest for a bit. The topic is cold by time I feel like commenting, but that is ok.
Love this forum because it digs like others don't.
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Dr. Boden (sp) doing the second autopsy, said the knee closed off both carotid arteries in his neck which stopped blood going to his brain. I doubt a cop knows that will happen, doubt trainer says, "Cops, if you have a neck on the ground, and keep your knee on one side of the neck for --- minutes, guy will die."
Totally bullcrap. You will break his neck LONG before any blood is cut off, and long before airways are blocked. That's how I know that second autopsy is politically motivated and has nothing to do with the truth.
I will say it yet again: I have had the very same done to me. I know what it is. Your first clue that there was no pressure on that knee is that the guy is not screaming his fool head off... Any pressure hurts like holy hell. Yet this guy can lift his head AND his neck, AND is not screaming in pain.
He is not clamped down at all. I KNOW it. I been there.
My opinion of what happened after I saw more film: I have seen film that happened before the film of his death. Floyd had been handcuffed and cop put him in car; Floyd was thrashing around in back seat, cop still outside car trying to get him still. Then, Floyd shifted to other side of car, and cops on that side got him and put him flat on ground. EMTs were coming so cops stayed where they were until EMTs got there. Floyd was 6 ft., 6 inches tall. Cops don't generally deal with someone that tall - they were taking no chances, kept him down.
That much is likely right... I know how they deal with me, and there are always plenty of em showing up for the same reason: I am big, and I have a jacket. I would expect and have received FAR worse. Mess with the bull, you get the horns, every single time. And the minute you comply, everything is nice and professional again, if not friendly even.
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This has been a great thread to read through gang.... good back and forth, good points presented. My eyesight during this time is limited by circumstances (sitting in new huge easychair) by the distance from the screen, so I read a few posts and rest for a bit. The topic is cold by time I feel like commenting, but that is ok.
Love this forum because it digs like others don't.
You gotta work on getting your belly big enough that the laptop can sit level on top of it... Great place for the dinner plate too. :beer:
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Unfortunately, the volcano god requires its sacrifice.
That's really right... How that guy can ever get a fair trial is yet to be seen.
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That's right. Let's get past all the emoting and get to the facts of it.
Oh c’mon now be reasonable. yogi555
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http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,403992.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,403992.0.html)
He had a lot more than a knee to the neck as shown in the video at the link above.
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http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,403992.0.html (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,403992.0.html)
He had a lot more than a knee to the neck as shown in the video at the link above.
I think that vid is biased.
Of course he had them all on him while he struggled. That's how it works.
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In the words of Mick Jager "Every cop's a criminal, and all the sinner's saints".
:pop41:
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That's really right... How that guy can ever get a fair trial is yet to be seen.
I doubt very much that he'll get a fair trial. :judge:
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I hope they all had their body cams on so we have a actual record of what happened.
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In the words of Mick Jager "Every cop's a criminal, and all the sinner's saints".
:pop41:
You got that right.
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https://twitter.com/TheBruceMasters/status/1267368091291471873
How come I haven't seen this yet?
Anyone?
It doesn't necessarily excuse the cop's actions, but it puts things in a new light, IMO.
It only shows cops doing something in the back seat, not George. It isn't definitive at all. I'd like to see how he got from walking down the sidewalk to being knelt on by three police next to and wedged against the cruiser. Between body and dash cams ans surveillance video, it should all be there. Let's see the whole story.
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Unfortunately, the volcano god requires its sacrifice.
No wonder there aren't many virgins left... :shrug:
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This and the autopsy do not excuse this cop's tactics, but they do reduce the impact of the media's current narrative.
Oh, you mean like it did when they showed the part of the Rodney King video where Rodney attacked the cops?
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This has been a great thread to read through gang.... good back and forth, good points presented. My eyesight during this time is limited by circumstances (sitting in new huge easychair) by the distance from the screen, so I read a few posts and rest for a bit. The topic is cold by time I feel like commenting, but that is ok.
Love this forum because it digs like others don't.
Always comment! I’m drinking my first cup of coffee in the morning and reading threads after being asleep and logging off my iPad since 9pm. @Sighlass :coffee!:
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It only shows cops doing something in the back seat, not George. It isn't definitive at all. I'd like to see how he got from walking down the sidewalk to being knelt on by three police next to and wedged against the cruiser. Between body and dash cams ans surveillance video, it should all be there. Let's see the whole story.
The link above has more detail: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,403829.msg2223242.html#msg2223242 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,403829.msg2223242.html#msg2223242)
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The link above has more detail: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,403829.msg2223242.html#msg2223242 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,403829.msg2223242.html#msg2223242)
Thanks.
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This is being assumed by all to be a racist cop, but did he pin Floyd's neck to the ground because he was black or because he was, what, 6 foot six and outweighed the cop by fifty pounds?
I'm not excusing what happened; there was callous indifference here. But I don't know that the cop would have behaved differently if Floyd were white.
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This is being assumed by all to be a racist cop, but did he pin Floyd's neck to the ground because he was black or because he was, what, 6 foot six and outweighed the cop by fifty pounds?
I'm not excusing what happened; there was callous indifference here. But I don't know that the cop would have behaved differently if Floyd were white.
If the volcano is not fed with some sacrifices, the coming lava will destroy the village. These cops may as well just give up, because there is no way they'll get a fair trial, and they will be jailed for a very long time.
There will be much applause, and the Gibsmedat crowd will have their prize, while race relations get set back another 50 years.
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If the volcano is not fed with some sacrifices, the coming lava will destroy the village. These cops may as well just give up, because there is no way they'll get a fair trial, and they will be jailed for a very long time.
There will be much applause, and the Gibsmedat crowd will have their prize, while race relations get set back another 50 years.
Yep and all to the delight of antifa and their masters, ultimately, among them Soros. This isn't any more spontaneous than a professional ball game.
America is being played, all around.
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He had serious heart disease and high blood pressure.
He was on Fentanyl, meth and pot when he died of a heart attack. How much of that heart attack is attributable to being strongly restrained has yet to be determined.
He had just used a fake 20 dollar bill at a business and was sitting in the drivers seat of a car on a public street high on drugs.
He resisted arrest and continued to resist arrest handcuffed in the back of the squad car.
The police called for ambulance while restraining him and were waiting for the ambulance to arrive.
He had face injuries that may have occurred in the back of the squad car. They may have pulled him out and restrained him because he was injuring himself and couldn't let him continue (speculation based on what is known). If that is the case that makes the claim that they totally disregarded his well being a lie.
Floyd was 6' 6 and a big man.
There were people standing around causing the officers to have to keep an eye them while keeping Floyd restrained. That distraction maybe why they didn't notice he stopped breathing.
There's been no mention (that I'm aware of) of the officers wearing body cams. If they were and were on - they better have been - then we should know definitely what happened in the back of the squad car.
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He had serious heart disease and high blood pressure.
He was on Fentanyl, meth and pot when he died of a heart attack. How much of that heart attack is attributable to being strongly restrained has yet to be determined.
He had just used a fake 20 dollar bill at a business and was sitting in the drivers seat of a car on a public street high on drugs.
He resisted arrest and continued to resist arrest handcuffed in the back of the squad car.
The police called for ambulance while restraining him and were waiting for the ambulance to arrive.
He had face injuries that may have occurred in the back of the squad car. They may have pulled him out and restrained him because he was injuring himself and couldn't let him continue (speculation based on what is known). If that is the case that makes the claim that they totally disregarded his well being a lie.
Floyd was 6' 6 and a big man.
There were people standing around causing the officers to have to keep an eye them while keeping Floyd restrained. That distraction maybe why they didn't notice he stopped breathing.
There's been no mention (that I'm aware of) of the officers wearing body cams. If they were and were on - they better have been - then we should know definitely what happened in the back of the squad car.
Haven't been around here tonight, but everyone does know he tested positive for COVID-19 don't they? Not saying this was contributory, but..........
https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-floyd-protest-updates-arrests-america-approaching-10000/story?id=71038665 (https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-floyd-protest-updates-arrests-america-approaching-10000/story?id=71038665)
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He had serious heart disease and high blood pressure.
He was on Fentanyl, meth and pot when he died of a heart attack. How much of that heart attack is attributable to being strongly restrained has yet to be determined.
He had just used a fake 20 dollar bill at a business and was sitting in the drivers seat of a car on a public street high on drugs.
He resisted arrest and continued to resist arrest handcuffed in the back of the squad car.
The police called for ambulance while restraining him and were waiting for the ambulance to arrive.
He had face injuries that may have occurred in the back of the squad car. They may have pulled him out and restrained him because he was injuring himself and couldn't let him continue (speculation based on what is known). If that is the case that makes the claim that they totally disregarded his well being a lie.
Floyd was 6' 6 and a big man.
There were people standing around causing the officers to have to keep an eye them while keeping Floyd restrained. That distraction maybe why they didn't notice he stopped breathing.
There's been no mention (that I'm aware of) of the officers wearing body cams. If they were and were on - they better have been - then we should know definitely what happened in the back of the squad car.
He and the cop who was kneeling on his neck had been co workers (security). There is more to the story.https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/05/31/sunday-talks-crump-on-floyd-we-dont-understand/ (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/05/31/sunday-talks-crump-on-floyd-we-dont-understand/)
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Haven't been around here tonight, but everyone does know he tested positive for COVID-19 don't they? Not saying this was contributory, but..........
https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-floyd-protest-updates-arrests-america-approaching-10000/story?id=71038665 (https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-floyd-protest-updates-arrests-america-approaching-10000/story?id=71038665)
Yes, but his initial Covid19 test was positive well before this happened I believe suggesting he either recovered or was a spreader. He apparently was still positive at his death.
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He and the cop who was kneeling on his neck had been co workers (security). There is more to the story.https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/05/31/sunday-talks-crump-on-floyd-we-dont-understand/ (https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2020/05/31/sunday-talks-crump-on-floyd-we-dont-understand/)
Yes. But the business owner said he doesn't know if they ever met each other doing security at his business.
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Yes. But the business owner said he doesn't know if they ever met each other doing security at his business.
Right. The business owner isn't so lily white, either.
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Ahem...
This changes a lot of the narrative about why Mr. Floyd was "on the ground" and being restrained in the first place...
Really he was inside the car and the passenger door was open. The other cop was just standing there watching. What was happening behind that patrol car door could be anything. But I don't imagine the other cop just standing there calmly if the other cop was in trouble. For all we know the cop could have been pounding him.
He was already in the car. Shut the door.
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Haven't been around here tonight, but everyone does know he tested positive for COVID-19 don't they? Not saying this was contributory, but..........
https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-floyd-protest-updates-arrests-america-approaching-10000/story?id=71038665 (https://abcnews.go.com/US/george-floyd-protest-updates-arrests-america-approaching-10000/story?id=71038665)
The question is....does that county in Minnesota classify George Floyd's death is caused by Covid19, like they classify all deaths recently as the such. happy77
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He was already in the car. Shut the door.
This is what I love about TBR! So many different people from different walks of life, we can count on somebody with your vast Law Enforcement background to clear things up for us common folk.
After all, just shutting the door worked so well for Freddy Gray.
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The question is....does that county in Minnesota classify George Floyd's death is caused by Covid19, like they classify all deaths recently as the such. happy77
Great observation. I am sure there is more than enough proof that many many deaths this year were not caused by COVID-19, but the mere presence Coincidentally. The political reasons of throwing a wrench in this year's election reason for left leaning politicos to arm twist coroners and M.E's in that direction.
Here's one that may be the most glaring example of COVID statistics fudging hypocricy of them all. IF I were on the cop's defense team I would be gathering and exploiting that data in that respect.
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The question is....does that county in Minnesota classify George Floyd's death is caused by Covid19, like they classify all deaths recently as the such. happy77
Are you kidding? You can bet they will do everything in their power to prevent that.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/bvB2Vm8R/Floyd-Tocicology.jpg)
Autopsy report: https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf (https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf)
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Autopsy report: https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf (https://www.hennepin.us/-/media/hennepinus/residents/public-safety/documents/Autopsy_2020-3700_Floyd.pdf)
Floyd hopped up on Meth, and Fentanyl.......
MSM reporting that in 3...2.... (never mind)
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If it can be proved that Floyd was struggling with the officers i.e. resisting arrest, that should remove the premeditated murder charge and likely the second degree murder charge.
It doesn't absolve Chauvin of a manslaughter or maybe third degree murder charge.
But if Floyd had to be restrained, it meant the officers had to take tough measures to keep him from escaping.
That still doesn't absolve Chauvin of using tougher measures than necessary to restrain him.
Anybody who claims pressure from a 180-200 lb person on a neck for nine minutes can't cause death is not dealing with reality.
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If it can be proved that Floyd was struggling with the officers i.e. resisting arrest, that should remove the premeditated murder charge and likely the second degree murder charge.
It doesn't absolve Chauvin of a manslaughter or maybe third degree murder charge.
But if Floyd had to be restrained, it meant the officers had to take tough measures to keep him from escaping.
That still doesn't absolve Chauvin of using tougher measures than necessary to restrain him.
Anybody who claims pressure from a 180-200 lb person on a neck for nine minutes can't cause death is not dealing with reality.
You are 100% right, which fits in perfectly for proably part V of this epic saga. "Rioting breaks out after Cops beat murder Charges". (Save this one for future headlines). It's all part of their plan.
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You are 100% right, which fits in perfectly for proably part V of this epic saga. "Rioting breaks out after Cops beat murder Charges". (Save this one for future headlines). It's all part of their plan.
Thanks to Ellison the DA must prove the cop was kneeling on Floyd’s neck with the express purpose of murdering him. He’s asking for an acquittal, at least on the 2nd degree murder charge.
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He’s asking for an acquittal, at least on the 2nd degree murder charge.
Acquittal could lead to more riots. Surely that isn't what Antifa's biggest fan is looking for, is it?
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Acquittal could lead to more riots. Surely that isn't what Antifa's biggest fan is looking for, is it?
That's the whole plan.
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Heard Chauvin is under suicide watch. If he waits too long in jail I don’t think he’ll need to worry about doing it himself.
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If it can be proved that Floyd was struggling with the officers i.e. resisting arrest, that should remove the premeditated murder charge and likely the second degree murder charge.
It doesn't absolve Chauvin of a manslaughter or maybe third degree murder charge.
But if Floyd had to be restrained, it meant the officers had to take tough measures to keep him from escaping.
That still doesn't absolve Chauvin of using tougher measures than necessary to restrain him.
Anybody who claims pressure from a 180-200 lb person on a neck for nine minutes can't cause death is not dealing with reality.
The autopsy report found no muscle bruising of the neck if I read that part correctly. Floyd was 6'-6", likely well over 300 lbs and high on drugs. They may have been restraining him because he was beating his head on the inside of the police car along with violent thrashing about. They called an ambulance as soon as they pulled him out. Also if someone was just bashing their face into the police car interior the only way to restrain them from continuing to injure themselves is keep their head restrained so that can't continue to do that.
We can argue about police procedure, but the facts remain that the vast majority of the responsibility for his death lands at his own feet for his own actions.
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Thanks to Ellison the DA must prove the cop was kneeling on Floyd’s neck with the express purpose of murdering him. He’s asking for an acquittal, at least on the 2nd degree murder charge.
DING DING DING we have a winner. Over Charge, he gets off and the riots continue.
edited for spelling
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I still think this had nothing to do with passing a bogus $20 bill. Considering Chauvin and Floyd worked together at the same place for quite a while and, it must be assumed, knew one another, perhaps there's a more personal back story to this assault.
Another point: if this is white on black racism, is it relevant that the cops who allegedly abetted Chauvin in this assault on Floyd were black, hispanic and Asian?
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The autopsy report found no muscle bruising of the neck if I read that part correctly. Floyd was 6'-6", likely well over 300 lbs and high on drugs. They may have been restraining him because he was beating his head on the inside of the police car along with violent thrashing about. They called an ambulance as soon as they pulled him out. Also if someone was just bashing their face into the police car interior the only way to restrain them from continuing to injure themselves is keep their head restrained so that can't continue to do that.
We can argue about police procedure, but the facts remain that the vast majority of the responsibility for his death lands at his own feet for his own actions.
I am not expert on Minnesota police training criteria. I did work with one of the training academies in NYS. We did not teach a neck restraint because of concerns about cutting off blood flow if you inadvertently compressed the carotid. We did teach restraint by kneeling on the back, inserting the defensive tactical baton under one elbow and over the opposite tricep while the suspect was cuffed. D@mn near impossible to get out of that hold.
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I still think this had nothing to do with passing a bogus $20 bill. Considering Chauvin and Floyd worked together at the same place for quite a while and, it must be assumed, knew one another, perhaps there's a more personal back story to this assault.
He was high/drunk and couldn't control himself (the initial call in complaint) and got behind the wheel of a car on a public street. That's all it took to garner an arrest.
The owner of business that had employed both of them said he didn't know if both guys had met each other or not doing security at his place.
Floyd may well have been hurting himself in the back of the police car, he was high on drugs, and that's why they had to restrain him and why the called an ambulance as soon as they pulled him out. And didn't just close the door instead. And were continuing to restrain him from doing more damage until the ambulance arrived.
I hope they had body cams on recording all that went on, particularly in the back of the police car so we can know with certainty what happened.
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I am not expert on Minnesota police training criteria. I did work with one of the training academies in NYS. We did not teach a neck restraint because of concerns about cutting off blood flow if you inadvertently compressed the carotid. We did teach restraint by kneeling on the back, inserting the defensive tactical baton under one elbow and over the opposite tricep while the suspect was cuffed. D@mn near impossible to get out of that hold.
If he was just beating his head on the inside of the cruiser the only way to stop that action would be to restrain his head too.
We need more info to know what actually happened.
It just angers me that so many are willing to feed the volcano without actual knowledge of what went down. Even conservative media is screaming that the guy is guilty of murder so they aren't deemed racist.
The facts matter.
In fact that's all that really matters for justice.
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If he was just beating his head on the inside of the cruiser the only way to stop that action would be to restrain his head too.
We need more info to know what actually happened.
It just angers me that so many are willing to feed the volcano without actual knowledge of what went down. Even conservative media is screaming that the guy is guilty of murder so they aren't deemed racist.
The facts matter.
In fact that's all that really matters for justice.
This isn't what you and I understand "justice" to be. Not by the time this is all over with.
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This isn't what you and I understand "justice" to be. Not by the time this is all over with.
Just say it. It’s blood lust.
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Just say it. It’s blood lust.
More than a blood lust. It's and misguided textbook example of what constitutes Justice.
Yep, 6 time felon thug hopped on fentyl and meth evades arrest gets killed by a thug cop, and posthumously gets honored and cannonized.
Meanwhile 3 or 4 cops have died defending people and businesses during rioting and looting, with nary a mention.
Society has gone stark raving mad!!!!!!
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Just say it. It’s blood lust.
Worse: It's main-streaming blood lust. They've gotten half the country in on it.
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Worse: It's main-streaming blood lust. They've gotten half the country in on it.
The media is not on America’s side. They are basted in sick, Left wing ideology. But, they control the national conversation and I’m becoming increasingly pessimistic that they will eventually win this war for the hearts and minds of Americans.
Pray for America.
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That still doesn't absolve Chauvin of using tougher measures than necessary to restrain him.
Anybody who claims pressure from a 180-200 lb person on a neck for nine minutes can't cause death is not dealing with reality.
Baloney.
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Pics and names of the other three officers are out. One had only been on the job for 4 days and Chauvin was his trainer.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/george-floyd-police-officers-bail-set-at-1-million-in-minneapolis-murder-case.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/04/george-floyd-police-officers-bail-set-at-1-million-in-minneapolis-murder-case.html)
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Lady wrote:
"Pics and names of the other three officers are out. One had only been on the job for 4 days and Chauvin was his trainer."
Two of them were Asians.
Probably on the small side compared to Floyd, who was 6'6" and about 240lbs., I believe...?
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Lady wrote:
"Pics and names of the other three officers are out. One had only been on the job for 4 days and Chauvin was his trainer."
Two of them were Asians.
Probably on the small side compared to Floyd, who was 6'6" and about 240lbs., I believe...?
I'm 6'3 and over 240 lbs. My bet is Floyd weighed over 300 lbs.
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Worse: It's main-streaming blood lust. They've gotten half the country in on it.
We are probably finished as a Republic.
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Heard Chauvin is under suicide watch. If he waits too long in jail I don’t think he’ll need to worry about doing it himself.
Chauvin Didn't Hang Himself
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Maybe the big one will hit California redirecting everyone's attention for a bit... Lots of unusual activity out west...
The current state of things has the vibe of going from bad to worse...
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I miss murder hornets. 9999hair out0000
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Baloney.
No baloney. Do you think you could withstand the pressure from a 180-200 lb person on your neck for nine minutes? I doubt it.
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No baloney. Do you think you could withstand the pressure from a 180-200 lb person on your neck for nine minutes? I doubt it.
First of all, yes I have. Twice I have been in that very same position.
Second, there was no pressure. He lifted his head, and his neck came up a bit. And he wasn't screaming like a little girl... Which he would be if pressure were indeed applied.
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I miss murder hornets. 9999hair out0000
You know, If the murder hornets were turned loose on the rioters and everyone else just stayed inside another week....
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You know, If the murder hornets were turned loose on the rioters and everyone else just stayed inside another week....
One of the most undervalued subplots of this whole thing is how the sanctioning of riots entirely destroys any reason for anyone to believe the severity of the Wuhan flu as advertised.
If the Wuhan stats in those cities don't spike hard in the wake of these riots, the entire narrative was a damn lie.
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Rioters in their thousands, but citizens must practice social distancing and avoid church... Bars and restaurants remain closed... What a laugh that folks ever believed it, and that some still do.
The dissonance is epic.
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Why aren't county and city officers putting this down simply for the safety of their people, strictly enforcing against these riots to prevent the spread of the virus?
Because all y'all were played, and are being played again.
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Why aren't county and city officers putting this down simply for the safety of their people, strictly enforcing against these riots to prevent the spread of the virus?
Because all y'all were played, and are being played again.
Like dancing marionettes...
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Rioters in their thousands, but citizens must practice social distancing and avoid church... Bars and restaurants remain closed... What a laugh that folks ever believed it, and that some still do.
The dissonance is epic.
Never under estimate the corruption on the left. Never.
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Never under estimate the corruption on the left. Never.
Far more important to know: People are sheep. ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep****
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Why aren't county and city officers putting this down simply for the safety of their people, strictly enforcing against these riots to prevent the spread of the virus?
Because all y'all were played, and are being played again.
WORD!
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Stefan Molyneux, MA @StefanMolyneux
George Floyd's son and daughter had been abandoned by their father for 15 years.
They didn't even recognize their own father on the news.
#BlackFathersMatter
5:33 PM · Jun 8, 2020
Obviously, his criminal past - even his being high as a kite on the day in question - does not excuse any police misconduct that may have occurred, but we really need to stop deifying this man.
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One of the most undervalued subplots of this whole thing is how the sanctioning of riots entirely destroys any reason for anyone to believe the severity of the Wuhan flu as advertised.
If the Wuhan stats in those cities don't spike hard in the wake of these riots, the entire narrative was a damn lie.
Yet another leftist-inspired and created hoax. How many does that make now? I've lost count. Wonder how many more they'll be pushing over the next five months.
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Yet another leftist-inspired and created hoax. How many does that make now? I've lost count. Wonder how many more they'll be pushing over the next five months.
They always have something cooking and ready to blow up. and dopey John Q Public will chase after it like a cat to a laser pointer... Everybody's hair on fire.
OOPS.. sorry about that... Guess we were wrong... What , 6 TRILLION DOLLARS later?
*****rollingeyes*****
**nononono* ****sheep****
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Far more important to know: People are sheep. ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep**** ****sheep****
‘That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.’
Aldous Huxley