The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Second Amendment => Topic started by: mystery-ak on June 17, 2023, 01:12:34 pm
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It Begins: 20 Heavily Armed IRS and ATF Agents Raid Great Falls Gun Store, Seize Firearm Purchase Records
by Jim Hoft Jun. 16, 2023 10:11 pm
In an unprecedented move, twenty armed Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) agents carried out a raid on a gun store in Great Falls, Montana, seizing all Form 4473s – documents that record buyer’s information during firearms transactions.
Tom Van Hoose, owner of Highwood Creek Outfitters, alleges that he has been under constant surveillance by state and federal agencies for over two years, KRTV reported.
On Wednesday, the gun shop owner reported an unexpected visit from 20 heavily armed IRS agents at his store.
The agents reportedly arrived at the shop early in the morning, as Van Hoose was opening for the day.
“We have now confirmed that both the IRS and the ATF were at Highwood Creek Outfitters in Great Falls around 7 am this morning. Both the IRS and ATF would not say why they were there,” KMON Radio reported.
more w/video
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/06/it-begins-20-heavily-armed-irs-atf-agents/
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I had a udercover FFL agent visit my gunstore shortly after I opened it.
At first,he just seems like a numbnuts customer with the questions he was asking,but when he started asking about buying black powder in bulk,he gave himself away.
Not that it bothered me because I refused to stock black powder,and wouldn't even order it. When he asked me why,I told him the truth,"I consider it too dangerous to stock and I have no interest in stocking it."
I also had no interest in being mentioned in a law suit filed by someone who would later be injured or killed by mishandling it by trying to build a bomb or trying to turn a black powder rifle into a magnum. Yes,seriously. The one thing in this life there is no limit on is the stupidity of some people.
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More
Montana AG Sounds Alarm: Armed IRS Agents Rounding Up Gun Purchase Records
Montana AG Austin Knudsen told Breitbart News on Saturday that armed IRS agents rolled into a Great Falls gun store Wednesday and seized dozens of boxes of ATF background check forms containing information on gun purchasers.
https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2023/06/17/montana-ag-sounds-alarm-armed-irs-agents-rounding-up-gun-purchase-records/
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WTF does the IRS need Form 4473s for?
Here it comes, folks.
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WTF does the IRS need Form 4473s for?
Here it comes, folks.
Next step .... seizure We all know why they're hiring 80,000 new armed IRS agents. I believe that is still going to be implemented because McCarthy folded. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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WTF does the IRS need Form 4473s for?
Here it comes, folks.
@Smokin Joe
That's not the right question.
The right question is "WHO,in government,gave the IRS the authority to seize 4473's?
Or more precisely,"WHO had the authority to do that and have their orders obeyed?"
THEIR domain is tax collection,and Form 4473's list purchase costs or value. Or didn't,back when I had a gun shop long ago,anyway.
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Next step .... seizure We all know why they're hiring 80,000 new armed IRS agents. I believe that is still going to be implemented because McCarthy folded. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
@libertybele
Well,I SUPPOSE there may be 80,000 children,grandchildren,neices,or nephews of IRS agents that need gooberment jobs,but have a hard time believing there are that many that want to work for the IRS.
Let's face it,most people consider child molesters to be more socially acceptable than IRS agents.
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@libertybele
Well,I SUPPOSE there may be 80,000 children,grandchildren,neices,or nephews of IRS agents that need gooberment jobs,but have a hard time believing there are that many that want to work for the IRS.
Let's face it,most people consider child molesters to be more socially acceptable than IRS agents.
??? Working for the IRS while heavily armed and playing keystone cop with no boundaries might be attractive to people especially if the pay and perks are right. Perks from what I can tell is basically you can do what you want. Who's going to stop you? The IRS can already seize your property. These agents will be armed.
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20 Armed IRS Agents Raid Gun Store, Seize Purchase Records
10:05 AM – Saturday, June 17, 2023
Armed Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosive (ATF) agents raided a gun store in Great Falls, Montana seizing all forms that hold buyer’s information during firearm transactions.
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According to the Gateway Pundit, the owner of the Highwood Creek Outfitters, Tom Van Hoose, alleged that he has been under surveillance by federal agents for over two years. On Wednesday, 20 heavily armed IRS agents raided his store seizing all Form 4473s in the store.
The agents had arrived early Wednesday morning as Hoose was opening for the day.
“We have now confirmed that both the IRS and the ATF were at Highwood Creek Outfitters in Great Falls around 7 am this morning. Both the IRS and ATF would not say why they were there,” KMON Radio reported. “A spokeswoman for the IRS would only say they were there on official IRS business. The ATF says it was providing assistance to the IRS. We attempted to enter the store today and were stopped by agents at the door who would only say that the gun store is closed and will reopen tomorrow.”
The owner claims that he was told that his business had been “reported,” however no further details were provided to him. He said that he believed the incident was “politically motivated.”
https://www.oann.com/newsroom/20-armed-irs-agents-raid-gun-store-seize-purchase-records/
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??? Working for the IRS while heavily armed and playing keystone cop with no boundaries might be attractive to people especially if the pay and perks are right. Perks from what I can tell is basically you can do what you want. Who's going to stop you? The IRS can already seize your property. These agents will be armed.
@libertybele
So are probably 90 percent of the people I know. Even my ex carries a 9mm Ruger,and if there is ONE thing I am absolutely certain of,it is that a armed woman WILL shoot you until she runs out of bullets if you scare her.
Most times you can get away with talking an armed male into just going away and leaving you alone,but you are SOOOOO shot full of holes if you scare an armed woman.
AND......,there is not a jury in the world that will convict her if the dead attacker is not her husband or former husband.
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@libertybele
So are probably 90 percent of the people I know. Even my ex carries a 9mm Ruger,and if there is ONE thing I am absolutely certain of,it is that a armed woman WILL shoot you until she runs out of bullets if you scare her.
Most times you can get away with talking an armed male into just going away and leaving you alone,but you are SOOOOO shot full of holes if you scare an armed woman.
AND......,there is not a jury in the world that will convict her if the dead attacker is not her husband or former husband.
They will come silently into the night and start extracting people -- those who resists will face a battle. Just my opinion here.
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Lots of opprobrium and raised hairs in this thread.
So... I'm gonna ask the question again:
Is it time yet for that new "Heartland Continental Congress"??
If not... what's it going to take...?
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BATF is no longer under Treasury, but the DOJ. While BATF can check the records and the store's books for record keeping compliance any time they choose, The IRS has no connection to firearms whatsoever, so the glaring question, if this was an IRS operation is WTF the IRS is doing seizing (not examining, but seizing) forms 4473 from the dealership?
I am having serious trouble trying to see how this is a matter of IRS jurisdiction, and how they have ANY authority to do this, or what statute gives that authority.
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Anna Paulina Luna
@VoteAPL
Remember those 87,000 IRS Agents?
Remember how their funding (for a majority of them) was NOT cut in the debt deal?
Looks like they’re quickly getting to work.
3:12 PM · Jun 17, 2023
M J Brunson
@MeJuBrun
“We have now confirmed that both the IRS and the ATF were at Highwood Creek Outfitters in Great Falls around 7 am this morning. Both the IRS and ATF would not say why they were there,” KMON Radio reported.
“A spokeswoman for the IRS would only say they were there on official IRS business. The ATF says it was providing assistance to the IRS. We attempted to enter the store today and were stopped by agents at the door who would only say that the gun store is closed and will reopen tomorrow,” the news outlet added.
6:51 PM · Jun 17, 2023
Truth seekers
@WSSMomma
🚨 There's more to this story that will be out shortly.
This store and the owner have been under investigation for some time by the ATF and the FBI due to someone reporting suspicious activity. IRS is also investigating . The armed agents were FBI and ATF.
8:27 AM · Jun 18, 2023
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Armed IRS Agents Shut Down Montana Gun Store in a 'Soviet-style Intimidation' Raid
Matt Vespa
3–4 minutes
You’re not imagining this, folks. Armed federal agents are being weaponized to go after the Democrats’ political enemies, including industries they find disreputable. The liberal media’s echo chamber will work overtime to drown out these stories. They attempted to gaslight us on gas stoves. However, that pales compared to the Russian collusion hoax and how the Department of Justice has become the Democratic National Committee’s Stasi force.
The FBI is out of control, engaging in censorship schemes with social media companies, procuring illegal wiretap warrants, and seems hell-bent on protecting the Biden family even after their sources have compiled incriminating evidence of corruption. So, it’s not far-fetched to hear federal agents raided a Montana gun store, shut it down, and seized sensitive documents about private citizens (via The Blaze):
Rep. Matt Rosendale (R-Mont.) is demanding answers after he says a group of armed IRS agents raided and temporarily closed a Montana gun shop in Great Falls Wednesday.
"This event is another example of President Biden weaponizing federal agencies to target and harass hardworking Americans for exercising their constitutional rights," Rosendale said in a letter to leaders of the Internal Revenue Service and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Twenty heavily armed federal agents pulled in behind Highwood Creek Outfitters' owner Tom Van Hoose as he arrived at his shop Wednesday morning, KRTV reported.
IRS agents confiscated background check forms from the store that contained sensitive personal information about all customers who ever purchased a gun at the shop. The forms do not include financial information, Rosendale said, calling the act an "egregious breach of privacy" that "showed no regard for federal law."
"There is no circumstance in which 4473s would be necessary in an investigation spearheaded by the IRS," Rosendale said in a letter addressed to ATF Director Steven Dettelbach and IRS Commissioner Daniel Werfel.
more
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2023/06/17/it-begins-armed-irs-agents-swarm-colorado-gun-shop-n2624634
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BATF is no longer under Treasury, but the DOJ. While BATF can check the records and the store's books for record keeping compliance any time they choose, The IRS has no connection to firearms whatsoever, so the glaring question, if this was an IRS operation is WTF the IRS is doing seizing (not examining, but seizing) forms 4473 from the dealership?
I am having serious trouble trying to see how this is a matter of IRS jurisdiction, and how they have ANY authority to do this, or what statute gives that authority.
@Smokin Joe
As EVERY tyrant in history has proven,"Might makes right".
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AMERICAN NEWS Jun 19, 2023
Montana gun owner raided by IRS, ATF in 'pattern of intimidation and harassment': report
"The IRS committed an egregious breach of privacy for Montana’s gun owners."
Sara Higdon
Jun 19, 2023
The Highwood Creek Outfitters gun shop in Great Falls, Montana, re-opened for business after being raided by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) on Wednesday.
In a letter to IRS Commissioner Daniel Werfel and ATF Director Steven M. Dettelbach, Rep. Mathew M. Rosendale Sr. (R-MT) claimed, "This event is another example of President Biden weaponizing federal agencies to target and harass hard-working Americans for exercising their constitutional rights."
"While we wait to hear more details and the rationale behind this raid, given the positions of the Biden Administration this raid appears to be an attempt to intimidate firearms dealers and owners," the letter read. "A pattern of intimidation and harassment seems to be emerging under Director Dettelbach’s leadership of the ATF."
https://thepostmillennial.com/montana-gun-owner-raided-by-irs-atf-in-pattern-of-intimidation-and-harassment-report
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"The IRS committed an egregious breach of privacy for Montana’s gun owners," Resendale Jr. continued. "Although there are still some murky details regarding the events at Highwood Creek Outfitters. There is no circumstance in which 4473’s would be necessary in an investigation spearheaded by the IRS."
I made this point on another thread.
BATFE is under the DOJ, not Treasury, so WTF is the IRS doing with the 4473s?
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Haven't these Government dimwits heard of Ruby Ridge?
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I made this point on another thread.
BATFE is under the DOJ, not Treasury, so WTF is the IRS doing with the 4473s?
It's been explained...
80,000 new IRS agents to handle the coming/planned REPEAL OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT!
"First, they came for the @roamer_1 's, but because I wasn't a Mountain Man,...didn't say anything".
:laugh:
Guessing that all yours are not recorded anywhere...and you probably make your own ammunition. :patriot:
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It's been explained...
80,000 new IRS agents to handle the coming/planned REPEAL OF THE 2ND AMENDMENT!
"First, they came for the @roamer_1 's, but because I wasn't a Mountain Man,...didn't say anything".
:laugh:
Guessing that all yours are not recorded anywhere...and you probably make your own ammunition. :patriot:
Hey don't look at me @DCPatriot ,,, I'm a law abiding guy... Kinda... Most of the time...
Three of mine are bought over the counter. On purpose. And I will surrender them if they come after em... All that does is give me notice. An early warning system. Cheap insurance.
But unlike my fellows, many of whom have walk-in gun rooms lined with arms and ammo, I concentrated on replication and caching. I'm a 'distributed' kinda guy, in all things.
Didn't really do it for purposes of subterfuge... It had more to do with staging. I spent a lot of time in the deep woods, and if things go sour in the bush, you die... So it's just good sense to have stored supplies where you might need to get at em.
So at each cache site there is a full set of the things I might need in any weather, to include armament.
It just turns out that if I walk out my back door and up the mountain, one of those caches is two days hard march away, right at the head of a valley that stretches into the road-less wilderness. All I need is to leave with my go-bag and get there to be smoothin it. Funny how that works out.
And I ain't the only dumb hillbilly to think that way... I guarantee. happy77
Of course having to push a buggy around everywhere I go, tied to a catheter, and hardly being able to go 100 ft at a time might pose a bit of trouble in that scenario presently... :shrug:
Man plans and God laughs :laugh:
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Great Falls is a big city around these parts. This ain't a 'Ruby Ridge' sorta thing.
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And 80,000 ain't no where near enough... Not to go up in the holler... ANY holler.
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And I ain't the only dumb hillbilly to think that way... I guarantee. happy77
Having one side of the family that came up a little shadier than the general population, that is definitely SOP. Never just have one moonshine still. :smokin:
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Merged threads.
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"The IRS committed an egregious breach of privacy for Montana’s gun owners."
Overheard at ATF:
"Hey, get ready for a load of data IRS is sending over to enter into 'The Registry' for Montana..."
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Having one side of the family that came up a little shadier than the general population, that is definitely SOP. Never just have one moonshine still. :smokin:
*FACTS*. My people. happy77
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"The IRS committed an egregious breach of privacy for Montana’s gun owners."
Overheard at ATF:
"Hey, get ready for a load of data IRS is sending over to enter into 'The Registry' for Montana..."
Makes you wonder, since the BATF has been denied creating a registry of gun owners, if the IRS is doing so as a workaround.
Not only would compiling such a list be outside the ordinary purview of the IRS, they have not been specifically denied doing so. So the question is one of whether this will form a target list for IRS audits (something the IRS can do), or whether there is other targeted information to be gleaned from Forms giving names, addresses, specific firearm manufacturers and types and calibers, for purposes beyond the ordinary or even extraordinary duties and powers of the IRS.
I suppose it is possible that something got slipped into one of those omnibus bills that gave the IRS some power we do not know of, but that begs the question still, namely what business of the IRS what is on those forms?
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I know they Montana AG spoke out about the wrong of this raid. Sounds like a good lawsuit to get the 4473's out of the IRS hands.
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From:
Q11: What happens to the data provided on Form 4473?
Completed Forms 4473 are retained by the Federal firearms licensee (FFL). ATF does not, and never has, maintained an archive or other information repository on the race or ethnicity of firearm purchasers or licensees, and it has no intention to do so in the future. ATF may inspect individual Forms 4473 containing personally identifying information held by FFLs only for limited regulatory or law enforcement functions-specifically, during inspections, and in the course of investigations (for example, when tracing firearms linked to individual criminal investigations). Similarly, the FFL may use the demographic data to ensure proper identification or facilitate the background check process. There are some limited circumstances – for example when an FFL goes out of business – under which the Forms 4473 or information contained thereon is provided to ATF as required by statute. Even under these limited circumstances, ATF does not aggregate or centralize the demographic information contained on the form.
Q12: What authority does the federal government have to ask for such information on Form 4473?
Title 18, United States Code (U.S.C.), section 923(g)(1)(A) provides authority for ATF to require such records, and 27 CFR § 478.124 implements that authority, including a requirement that the Form 4473 include information about the purchaser’s race.
Additionally, regulations at 28 CFR § 25.7 prescribe the search criteria used by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) and states: "The following search descriptors will be required in all queries of the system for purposes of a background check: (1) Name; (2) Sex; (3) Race; (4) Complete date of birth; and (5) State of residence." This information is needed to facilitate proper identification by providing additional information that helps match -- or rule out a match -- between an individual and a potentially prohibiting record.
Nothing about the IRS having legitimate and legal access to, nor the ability to seize the physical forms.
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I suppose it is possible that something got slipped into one of those omnibus bills that gave the IRS some power we do not know of, but that begs the question still, namely what business of the IRS what is on those forms?
Dunno... but they are carrying now. Federal carry means Sworn. Sworn means ALL federal law, with small discrepancies in jurisdiction... ATF provided jurisdiction...
Like I said, dunno... just bread crumbs