The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: IsailedawayfromFR on July 27, 2022, 07:40:50 pm
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Former President Donald J. Trump laid out 42 policy proposals at the America First Policy Institute (AFPI) summit Tuesday, where he gave his first speech in Washington, DC, since leaving office.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/27/42-policy-proposals-trump-outlined-at-america-first-summit-in-dc/
If smart, the GOP in Congress should adopt these as the new Contract to America.
It might even prod the Dems to come out with their own contract, riddled with social and racial issues.
The contrast would not be starker. Putting food on the table and keeping a job vs pandering to illegals, trans and criminals.
They would easily translate into huge wins for the GOP.
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I used to support Trump but after reading those 42 point I won't vote for him again. Hopefully conservatives will have a better candidate.
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Ooh Look! Not a single word about cost cutting and shrinking government.Not a peep.
Looks like another gigantic expensive boondoggle coming up from the 'right' *****rollingeyes*****
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Ooh Look! Not a single word about cost cutting and shrinking government.Not a peep.
Looks like another gigantic expensive boondoggle coming up from the 'right' *****rollingeyes*****
If we really believe a bloated federal government and runaway inflation is bad, Trump cannot be the nominee.
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If we really believe a bloated federal government and runaway inflation is bad, Trump cannot be the nominee.
of course I agree with that... Especially after this list. SOSDD.
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If we really believe a bloated federal government and runaway inflation is bad, Trump cannot be the nominee.
I would be much more worried about a police state with no consequences when pigs break the law. Qualified immunity needs to be eliminated and not strengthened more. Pigs and a corrupt justice system get away with enough as it is now.
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I would be much more worried about a police state with no consequences when pigs break the law.
Both the very same thing.
A small government cannot afford a police state.
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Reminder: this was a speech on safey, law and order. Might be best to save the above criticisms for Trump's speech on economic policy, which will come.
BTW, Trump's speech was so effective, it prompted this response (video):
https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1552086010007265281
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Lots of that pro-police stuff is a little scary,but then I remember the Dim-controlled cities like Seattle,where the police are being paid to either just ride around and not arrest anyone,or to protect the neighborhoods the politicians live in.
Look at Portland,or most of coastal California for examples.
I suspect Chicago belongs on that list,too.
The one thing we can NOT allow is for this situation to get worse than it already is,or anarchy will break out all over the country,and it will be the left that takes over the country until we reach such a state of anarchy that people are begging to government to go "full left-wing fascist".
Most of the posters here I see screaming "I will NEVER vote for Trump because of this!" were never going to vote for him to start with due to their class envy. Trump is a Billionaire,and they hate anybody that has more than they do.
I gotta admit this presentation,with no real details on how or where this will be happeing is doing nothing but feeding red meat to the dogs and helping them convince some people who are "on the line" to not vote for Trump.
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Lots of that pro-police stuff is a little scary,but then I remember the Dim-controlled cities like Seattle,where the police are being paid to either just ride around and not arrest anyone,or to protect the neighborhoods the politicians live in.
Look at Portland,or most of coastal California for examples.
I suspect Chicago belongs on that list,too.
The one thing we can NOT allow is for this situation to get worse than it already is,or anarchy will break out all over the country,and it will be the left that takes over the country until we reach such a state of anarchy that people are begging to government to go "full left-wing fascist".
Most of the posters here I see screaming "I will NEVER vote for Trump because of this!" were never going to vote for him to start with due to their class envy. Trump is a Billionaire,and they hate anybody that has more than they do.
I gotta admit this presentation,with no real details on how or where this will be happeing is doing nothing but feeding red meat to the dogs and helping them convince some people who are "on the line" to not vote for Trump.
I will disagree. I was a Trump supporter but not any longer. The crap he wants to do with the pigs is unconstitutional. Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation. Qualified Immunity is unconstitutional garbage that was made up by a corrupt SCOTUS to justify pigs breaking the law and violating people's rights with impunity. Pigs should not be able to violate the laws they are swore to uphold. I hope Trump is not the GOP nominee. I won't vote for him. At this point maybe they can recruit DeSantis?
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Reminder: this was a speech on safey, law and order. Might be best to save the above criticisms for Trump's speech on economic policy, which will come.
BTW, Trump's speech was so effective, it prompted this response (video):
https://mobile.twitter.com/Doranimated/status/1552086010007265281
I agree, the Dems do not like what Trump said as he is over the target. If we can keep them on the defensive, good things will happen to this country, regardless of what a few pessimists say.
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Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation.
That's right, but it's not in practice. It has to do with the dichotomy presented between real evidence and suspicion of wrong-doing and where 'probable cause' lies on a sliding scale between the two. Many laws lie along that scale... Like loitering laws. Cops have always rousted the ne'er-do-wells, and beefed them out of polite society - And many (me included) would suggest there is MORE of that needed right now, not less.
Qualified Immunity is unconstitutional garbage that was made up by a corrupt SCOTUS to justify pigs breaking the law and violating people's rights with impunity.
The other side of that is a law suit for every traffic stop and every action. Qualified immunity is there to keep the courts from being overrun by frivolous suits against the LEOs. EVERY perp is innocent, and EVERY perp has been violated. Just ask them.
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That's right, but it's not in practice. It has to do with the dichotomy presented between real evidence and suspicion of wrong-doing and where 'probable cause' lies on a sliding scale between the two. Many laws lie along that scale... Like loitering laws. Cops have always rousted the ne'er-do-wells, and beefed them out of polite society - And many (me included) would suggest there is MORE of that needed right now, not less.
The other side of that is a law suit for every traffic stop and every action. Qualified immunity is there to keep the courts from being overrun by frivolous suits against the LEOs. EVERY perp is innocent, and EVERY perp has been violated. Just ask them.
BS and BS. Stop and Frisk is unconstitutional. PERIOD! Pigs cannot stop, identify and frisk anyone they want to at any time they want to without reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring or is about to occur.
As far as qualified immunity goes it was set as precedent by SCOTUS and it gives carte blanche for pigs to break the law with impunity. Nobody is above the law even pigs and members of the unjustice system. If pigs wouldn't break the law and violate citizens civil rights 9n a regular basis they wouldn't have to worry about a lawsuit. There also needs to be an outside entity to investigate complaints filed against pigs. When pigs investigate themselves there is never any wrong doing found. The Blueline Mafia protects it's own gang members. Pigs deserve the hate they have earned.
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BS and BS. Stop and Frisk is unconstitutional. PERIOD! Pigs cannot stop, identify and frisk anyone they want to at any time they want to without reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring or is about to occur.
RIGHT. But how is that measured? There's a whole helluva lot of gray area in that statement.
As far as qualified immunity goes it was set as precedent by SCOTUS and it gives carte blanche for pigs to break the law with impunity. Nobody is above the law even pigs and members of the unjustice system.
True, but how you defend from countless frivolous lawsuits?
If pigs wouldn't break the law and violate citizens civil rights 9n a regular basis they wouldn't have to worry about a lawsuit.
That is patently false.
There also needs to be an outside entity to investigate complaints filed against pigs. When pigs investigate themselves there is never any wrong doing found. The Blueline Mafia protects it's own gang members. Pigs deserve the hate they have earned.
THERE IS. IA generally reports directly to the DA, not to the rank and file, specifically for that reason.
Look, I get it. I am a redneck, A step or two above trailer trash. And what the rednecks call a good ol boy... Which means I got a little loud in my yoot, and tore down a bar or two. And as befits my kind, I love fast cars, big 4 wheel drives, and whence they came from... I have hauled a load or two.
To say that I was a frequent flyer with the LEOs might be a stretch, but we all knew each other by name. Never made it to the big house (but for the grace of God), but I spent my time in County.
So I have a love-hate thing going with the cops. I get it. And I will always lean heavy toward the holler, and know what the cops will never know there. I don't want to, but I could easily slip over that line and live on the other side of it... I know where that is.
But with that comes a pretty fair grip on the professionalism of cops. Sure there's a****** cops. There's a*******s everywhere. But by and large, I had it coming. And by and large, I have been treated reasonably. Even when force was applied (which was more than once). Even when being rousted. Purposefully rousted - which certainly IS a violation. But I get why.
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BS and BS. Stop and Frisk is unconstitutional. PERIOD! Pigs cannot stop, identify and frisk anyone they want to at any time they want to without reasonable articuable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is occurring or is about to occur.
As far as qualified immunity goes it was set as precedent by SCOTUS and it gives carte blanche for pigs to break the law with impunity. Nobody is above the law even pigs and members of the unjustice system. If pigs wouldn't break the law and violate citizens civil rights 9n a regular basis they wouldn't have to worry about a lawsuit. There also needs to be an outside entity to investigate complaints filed against pigs. When pigs investigate themselves there is never any wrong doing found. The Blueline Mafia protects it's own gang members. Pigs deserve the hate they have earned.
What cops can do as a practical matter, and what they can do as a theoretical legal matter are two different things.
Assume stop and frisk is per-se unconstitutional; so what? That only matters if (a) one is in front of an appellate court arguing that one's conviction should be thrown out because of tainted evidence, or (b) one is in civil court suing under section 1983 for a violation of one's constitutional rights.
Until such time, a cop will do what he or she can get away with - i.e., that which will not result in them being disciplined by their supervisor(s) - without regard to whether the action is technically unconstitutional.
With respect to item (a) above - whether evidence gets excluded at the trial level will generally depend on the digestion of the trial judge, and quite honestly, many trial judges are perfectly happy to deny a defense motion to exclude evidence and leave it to the appeals courts to sort it out - which for the defendant means having to go through an entire trial and suffer a guilty verdict before one gets a shot at an appeal. Not a very appealing proposition, if one will pardon the pun.
With respect to item (b) above - good luck finding an attorney who will take the case if all it was was a stop and frisk that did not result in a criminal conviction. Litigation costs money, and the damages from a simple stop and frisk are likely to be considered minimal - so only nominal damages and, maybe, whatever the court considers to be one's "reasonable" attorney's fees. Some bottom-feeding civil lawyers can make a go of it on margins of scale with that sort of civil rights litigation, but most won't because there are more lucrative cases to be had. So, again, not a very appealing option.
Finally, as far as getting the evidence thrown out: only the greenest, most brain-dead cops cannot come up with a post-hoc rationalization that establishes an articulable suspicion for stop-and-frisk, and so it's highly unlikely that the evidence will be thrown out as the fruit of the poisonous tree.
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What cops can do as a practical matter, and what they can do as a theoretical legal matter are two different things.
Assume stop and frisk is per-se unconstitutional; so what? That only matters if (a) one is in front of an appellate court arguing that one's conviction should be thrown out because of tainted evidence, or (b) one is in civil court suing under section 1983 for a violation of one's constitutional rights.
Until such time, a cop will do what he or she can get away with - i.e., that which will not result in them being disciplined by their supervisor(s) - without regard to whether the action is technically unconstitutional.
With respect to item (a) above - whether evidence gets excluded at the trial level will generally depend on the digestion of the trial judge, and quite honestly, many trial judges are perfectly happy to deny a defense motion to exclude evidence and leave it to the appeals courts to sort it out - which for the defendant means having to go through an entire trial and suffer a guilty verdict before one gets a shot at an appeal. Not a very appealing proposition, if one will pardon the pun.
With respect to item (b) above - good luck finding an attorney who will take the case if all it was was a stop and frisk that did not result in a criminal conviction. Litigation costs money, and the damages from a simple stop and frisk are likely to be considered minimal - so only nominal damages and, maybe, whatever the court considers to be one's "reasonable" attorney's fees. Some bottom-feeding civil lawyers can make a go of it on margins of scale with that sort of civil rights litigation, but most won't because there are more lucrative cases to be had. So, again, not a very appealing option.
Finally, as far as getting the evidence thrown out: only the greenest, most brain-dead cops cannot come up with a post-hoc rationalization that establishes an articulable suspicion for stop-and-frisk, and so it's highly unlikely that the evidence will be thrown out as the fruit of the poisonous tree.
There have already been many SCOTUS cases that say you are wrong. There are also many cases where people have been illegally detained, which is what a stop and frisk is, that have filed lawsuits themselves and have won thousands of dollars. That is one thing that is not covered by qualified immunity. When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you're a pig everyone looks like a criminal. Pigs have the same RIGHTS as every other citizen but some reason the think they have rights above and beyond that. Pigs do not have the RIGHT or authority to violate a citizen's civil right and it has been determined by SCOTUS that Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation. And yes there have been many cases thrown out and victims of over zealous pigs awarded thousands of dollars in lawsuits because they didn't have legimate probable cause for an arrest. The biggest problem with that is that the individual pigs are not held accountable by their superiors that condone the illegal behavior and the lawsuits are settled with taxpayer money. Until Pigs that are sworn to uphold the law and the Constitution are held individually liable for breaking the law and violating their oath nothing will change. It's bad enough as it is now and what Trump is talking about will make a police state much worse. Pigs in general are cowards and most of them don't deserve to have the jobs they do.
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I used to support Trump but after reading those 42 point I won't vote for him again. Hopefully conservatives will have a better candidate.
After reading it, I have to agree there are a lot of poison pills in there.
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After reading it, I have to agree there are a lot of poison pills in there.
Thank you. At least I'm not the only one.
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There have already been many SCOTUS cases that say you are wrong. There are also many cases where people have been illegally detained, which is what a stop and frisk is, that have filed lawsuits themselves and have won thousands of dollars. That is one thing that is not covered by qualified immunity. When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you're a pig everyone looks like a criminal. Pigs have the same RIGHTS as every other citizen but some reason the think they have rights above and beyond that. Pigs do not have the RIGHT or authority to violate a citizen's civil right and it has been determined by SCOTUS that Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation. And yes there have been many cases thrown out and victims of over zealous pigs awarded thousands of dollars in lawsuits because they didn't have legimate probable cause for an arrest. The biggest problem with that is that the individual pigs are not held accountable by their superiors that condone the illegal behavior and the lawsuits are settled with taxpayer money. Until Pigs that are sworn to uphold the law and the Constitution are held individually liable for breaking the law and violating their oath nothing will change. It's bad enough as it is now and what Trump is talking about will make a police state much worse. Pigs in general are cowards and most of them don't deserve to have the jobs they do.
This is largely nonsense. OF COURSE there are many court cases. EVERY criminal with a free state provided lawyer is going to attack the arrest, trying for a skate. It might even be the most typical way of gaming the system. and it is effective if you happen to pull a bleeding heart liberal for a judge - Which there is a pretty good chance of that almost everywhere.
By the same token, I hear you. I stood hard against cops doing sobriety checks... basically road blocks where you were all but forced to cooperate. Denying them invariably resulted in getting pulled over five minutes later, and being forced to comply by another officer anyway, and your DL could be suspended for non-compliance.
Well I said F*** O**... Get a warrant.... And drove off. I knew they would send a cruiser, so I avoided that, and went straight to the hospital, and paid for a full tox blood panel. I do believe the resulting kerfluffle stopped them cold from doing that sort of thing anymore.
CERTAINLY the same thing you are talking about, in spades.
But totally different than a cop rousting a suspicious looking guy among the beautiful people. Totally different than a cop rousting a corner dealer that they KNOW is dealing, but can't prove it.
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After reading it, I have to agree there are a lot of poison pills in there.
Damn straight. All Big Fed solutions... Same as I have been bawling about all the way along.
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Damn straight. All Big Fed solutions... Same as I have been bawling about all the way along.
It has the feel of "more of the same." 9999hair out0000
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There have already been many SCOTUS cases that say you are wrong. There are also many cases where people have been illegally detained, which is what a stop and frisk is, that have filed lawsuits themselves and have won thousands of dollars. That is one thing that is not covered by qualified immunity. When you're a hammer everything looks like a nail. When you're a pig everyone looks like a criminal. Pigs have the same RIGHTS as every other citizen but some reason the think they have rights above and beyond that. Pigs do not have the RIGHT or authority to violate a citizen's civil right and it has been determined by SCOTUS that Stop and Frisk is a 4th amendment violation. And yes there have been many cases thrown out and victims of over zealous pigs awarded thousands of dollars in lawsuits because they didn't have legimate probable cause for an arrest. The biggest problem with that is that the individual pigs are not held accountable by their superiors that condone the illegal behavior and the lawsuits are settled with taxpayer money. Until Pigs that are sworn to uphold the law and the Constitution are held individually liable for breaking the law and violating their oath nothing will change. It's bad enough as it is now and what Trump is talking about will make a police state much worse. Pigs in general are cowards and most of them don't deserve to have the jobs they do.
:silly:
Like I said, there is a big gulf between what a cop can get away with as a practical matter, and what they are supposed to do as a matter of technical legal theory.
Some people might like to think that all legal proceedings are handled as full-on law school discussions, with all the legal precepts discussed in full, and the legal conclusions drawn therefrom conscientiously applied. That isn't how it works in the real world.
Articulable suspicion and probable cause, for example, really only matter once you get to an appellate hearing, and to do that, you have to go through the entire process of an arrest, an arraignment, and a trial first. You have to make a motion at or before trial to exclude evidence that you believe was unconstitutionally obtained, and if the judge rules against you, then you have to complete the entire trial before you get to raise the issue. Some trial judges will consider the issue carefully, particularly if it is a high-profile case; but if it's just an ordinary run-of-the-mill case, then the trial judge is most likely going to simply deny the defense motion and let the case proceed to trial. There are two reasons for this: (1) from the judge's perspective, it's a time-saving technique - if the judge grants the defense motion and dismisses the case, and that grant is overturned on appeal by the government, then everything has to be done all over again to prepare for trial; if the judge simply denies the defense motion and goes ahead and completes the trial that has already been prepared for, then there's an economy of time, and if the denial is reversed on appeal, and the case sent back for further proceedings, then all the judge has to do is to dismiss the case; on the other hand, if the appeal is denied, then that's the end of the matter and, again, the trial judge doesn't need to do anything further. (2) many criminal trial judges are ex-cops or ex-LEO themselves, or otherwise got into the business because they wanted to have justice done, and they are often inclined to rule against the defendant as a matter of course whenever the matter is subject to the judge's discretion.
So, as I said at the beginning, articulable suspicion and probable cause really only matter if a defendant has the ability to go through a trial and get to an appeals court.
That's reality, Jack, whether we like it or not.
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Like I said, there is a big gulf between what a cop can get away with as a practical matter, and what they are supposed to do as a matter of technical legal theory.
Truer words were never spoken on this subject. Cops are usually given a pretty wide latitude on the day to day activities because it's damned dangerous. They just need to know what their superiors will cover their butts for.
Legal theories can be worked out at a more leisurely pace.
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:silly:
Like I said, there is a big gulf between what a cop can get away with as a practical matter, and what they are supposed to do as a matter of technical legal theory.
Some people might like to think that all legal proceedings are handled as full-on law school discussions, with all the legal precepts discussed in full, and the legal conclusions drawn therefrom conscientiously applied. That isn't how it works in the real world.
Nor how it SHOULD. Thugs are quite often kept at bay by big beat cops with night sticks, and who know how to use them.
At this point, Portland as an example, the only way Portland gets fixed is with hard ass bull cops willing to kick ass and take names, and a DA willing to look the other way.
And once order is restored, at the local level, them cops have to be there yet. I never kept to the straight and narrow. And what brought me back was not shrinks and liberal bleeding hearts.
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It has the feel of "more of the same." 9999hair out0000
YEP... And folks are gonna eat it up like pudding.
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YEP... And folks are gonna eat it up like pudding.
Are you sure that's pudding?
:pootrump:
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Are you sure that's pudding?
:pootrump:
LOL! Hard to tell in San FranSicko... And coming to a place near you...
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LOL! Hard to tell in San FranSicko... And coming to a place near you...
Not in my town. We battle "the homeless" by passing an ordinance to fine people for feeding them in the Parks.
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Not in my town. We battle "the homeless" by passing an ordinance to fine people for feeding them in the Parks.
Oh. Like pigeons. :laugh: Same principle.
But that will only go so far.
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This is largely nonsense. OF COURSE there are many court cases. EVERY criminal with a free state provided lawyer is going to attack the arrest, trying for a skate. It might even be the most typical way of gaming the system. and it is effective if you happen to pull a bleeding heart liberal for a judge - Which there is a pretty good chance of that almost everywhere.
By the same token, I hear you. I stood hard against cops doing sobriety checks... basically road blocks where you were all but forced to cooperate. Denying them invariably resulted in getting pulled over five minutes later, and being forced to comply by another officer anyway, and your DL could be suspended for non-compliance.
Well I said F*** O**... Get a warrant.... And drove off. I knew they would send a cruiser, so I avoided that, and went straight to the hospital, and paid for a full tox blood panel. I do believe the resulting kerfluffle stopped them cold from doing that sort of thing anymore.
CERTAINLY the same thing you are talking about, in spades.
But totally different than a cop rousting a suspicious looking guy among the beautiful people. Totally different than a cop rousting a corner dealer that they KNOW is dealing, but can't prove it.
Once again you show your complete ignorance of the subject matter. You can go back to your stool in the corner.
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:silly:
Like I said, there is a big gulf between what a cop can get away with as a practical matter, and what they are supposed to do as a matter of technical legal theory.
Some people might like to think that all legal proceedings are handled as full-on law school discussions, with all the legal precepts discussed in full, and the legal conclusions drawn therefrom conscientiously applied. That isn't how it works in the real world.
Articulable suspicion and probable cause, for example, really only matter once you get to an appellate hearing, and to do that, you have to go through the entire process of an arrest, an arraignment, and a trial first. You have to make a motion at or before trial to exclude evidence that you believe was unconstitutionally obtained, and if the judge rules against you, then you have to complete the entire trial before you get to raise the issue. Some trial judges will consider the issue carefully, particularly if it is a high-profile case; but if it's just an ordinary run-of-the-mill case, then the trial judge is most likely going to simply deny the defense motion and let the case proceed to trial. There are two reasons for this: (1) from the judge's perspective, it's a time-saving technique - if the judge grants the defense motion and dismisses the case, and that grant is overturned on appeal by the government, then everything has to be done all over again to prepare for trial; if the judge simply denies the defense motion and goes ahead and completes the trial that has already been prepared for, then there's an economy of time, and if the denial is reversed on appeal, and the case sent back for further proceedings, then all the judge has to do is to dismiss the case; on the other hand, if the appeal is denied, then that's the end of the matter and, again, the trial judge doesn't need to do anything further. (2) many criminal trial judges are ex-cops or ex-LEO themselves, or otherwise got into the business because they wanted to have justice done, and they are often inclined to rule against the defendant as a matter of course whenever the matter is subject to the judge's discretion.
So, as I said at the beginning, articulable suspicion and probable cause really only matter if a defendant has the ability to go through a trial and get to an appeals court.
That's reality, Jack, whether we like it or not.
Again you're wrong. The fact of the matter is that because of prior SCOTUS decisions before a corrupt SCOTUS started qualified immunity a pigs career can be ruined by a pigs own hand. It has also been deemed by SCOTUS decision that an individual who is unlawfully being attacked by a pig has the right to defend themselves. It is happening more and more as well as it should. The reason people want to defund the pigs is because they deserve all the hate they have earned. Yes there are some good police officers out there and it's usually because of their leadership but there are way too many pigs out there that ruin it for the rest.
Also Internal Affairs is a joke when it comes to investigating officer complaints. There are all members of the Blueline Mafia that protect their pig brothers. The outcome of pigs investigating pigs is predictable. There needs to be a separate entity to investigate complaints against pigs. There needs to be consequences for pigs that break the law and dishonor their oath. Until the bad pigs are gone the good officers will not get any respect.
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Once again you show your complete ignorance of the subject matter. You can go back to your stool in the corner.
@Killer Clouds
Ok,you hate cops because obviously,at some time in your past you were abused/mistreated,and/or falsly arrested on some bogus charge.
I get it. Trust me on that one. I was riding a Harley chopper with long hair and a long beard in the early 70's. I wouldn't even hesitate to suggest I have probably been stopped for no real cause more than you,as well as arrested on bogus charges and jailed for 2 or 3 days and then released right before court started. At least once I had a car stolen that I had bought and was towing home while in the police pound. When I asked about it,I was told "we don't remember any car,and you have 30 minutes to get out of the county or you will be arrested again."
I lived in Denver for a few years back in the late 70's,and I am not exaggerating when I say that if I had continued to live in Denver for another couple of years,I would have ended up sniping at the DPD from rooftops.
YET,I have also had cops help me when I was broke down in one of the junk cars I used to drive,and ALL the local cops are as friendly as puppies to me for some odd reason. It is PROBABLY because all of them realize I am not a criminal,and absolutely no danger to them or anyone else as long as I am not pushed.
I have even had a coupe of county cops show up at my home late at night that were patrolling alone and called to go bust up a party in a farmers field,and ask me would I grab my 45 and ride along as backup. I was STRICTLY ordered to remain in the police car unless he was attacked and in danger. I happily did this because I would have wanted someone to back ME up if I had been in that same position,and these cops had always been friendly to me.
There is good and bad in every group of human beings you will ever run into. It is NOT fair to call ALL cops "pigs",and you have to know this at some level.
In FACT,you would be doing yourself a favor if you could teach yourself to "Chill a little" on this. I have had anger issues of my own in the past,and I do know what I am talking about here.
Just a few friendly words of advise,and worth every nickel they cost you.
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@Killer Clouds
Ok,you hate cops because obviously,at some time in your past you were abused/mistreated,and/or falsly arrested on some bogus charge.
I get it. Trust me on that one. I was riding a Harley chopper with long hair and a long beard in the early 70's. I wouldn't even hesitate to suggest I have probably been stopped for no real cause more than you,as well as arrested on bogus charges and jailed for 2 or 3 days and then released right before court started. At least once I had a car stolen that I had bought and was towing home while in the police pound. When I asked about it,I was told "we don't remember any car,and you have 30 minutes to get out of the county or you will be arrested again."
I lived in Denver for a few years back in the late 70's,and I am not exaggerating when I say that if I had continued to live in Denver for another couple of years,I would have ended up sniping at the DPD from rooftops.
YET,I have also had cops help me when I was broke down in one of the junk cars I used to drive,and ALL the local cops are as friendly as puppies to me for some odd reason. It is PROBABLY because all of them realize I am not a criminal,and absolutely no danger to them or anyone else as long as I am not pushed.
I have even had a coupe of county cops show up at my home late at night that were patrolling alone and called to go bust up a party in a farmers field,and ask me would I grab my 45 and ride along as backup. I was STRICTLY ordered to remain in the police car unless he was attacked and in danger. I happily did this because I would have wanted someone to back ME up if I had been in that same position,and these cops had always been friendly to me.
There is good and bad in every group of human beings you will ever run into. It is NOT fair to call ALL cops "pigs",and you have to know this at some level.
In FACT,you would be doing yourself a favor if you could teach yourself to "Chill a little" on this. I have had anger issues of my own in the past,and I do know what I am talking about here.
Just a few friendly words of advise,and worth every nickel they cost you.
I am in about the same place as you @sneakypete ... On the bubble about city cops - They tend to have more of a pack mentality and tend to use it.... Depends on the city some...
But there's a push/pull between me and county and state cops. So long as they are not coming at me, there is a general respect there... to include fish cops. I have backed both county and state organizations when they have asked for it.
Feds are pretty much revenuers to me. And every time I get messed up with them turns out to be a bad experience. So they come knocking, I am heading out the back window, pretty much.
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Once again you show your complete ignorance of the subject matter. You can go back to your stool in the corner.
not ignorance at all. It's experience.
And federalism.
I am not for feds enforcing much of anything on county or state. The power is held most in the County where enforcement is concerned... And I like it like that. You don't like how your cops do things? Then move.
Just don't move here.
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Again you're wrong. The fact of the matter is that because of prior SCOTUS decisions before a corrupt SCOTUS started qualified immunity a pigs career can be ruined by a pigs own hand. It has also been deemed by SCOTUS decision that an individual who is unlawfully being attacked by a pig has the right to defend themselves. It is happening more and more as well as it should. The reason people want to defund the pigs is because they deserve all the hate they have earned. Yes there are some good police officers out there and it's usually because of their leadership but there are way too many pigs out there that ruin it for the rest.
Also Internal Affairs is a joke when it comes to investigating officer complaints. There are all members of the Blueline Mafia that protect their pig brothers. The outcome of pigs investigating pigs is predictable. There needs to be a separate entity to investigate complaints against pigs. There needs to be consequences for pigs that break the law and dishonor their oath. Until the bad pigs are gone the good officers will not get any respect.
Wow. You really don’t know a damned thing, and you’ll be damned if anyone else will change that.
Tell you what: come up to NYC and I can arrange for you to be arrested on the basis of an unconstitutional search. You can then spend the night in The Tombs, and enjoy running yourself through the meat grinder that is the NYC criminal courts.
At the end of that, see how long it takes you to get a lawyer to represent you in a section 1983 lawsuit for a violation of your constitutional rights.
I am telling you what happens as a matter of actual practical reality. You can deny reality all you want, but that doesn’t change the result.
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I am in about the same place as you @sneakypete ... On the bubble about city cops - They tend to have more of a pack mentality and tend to use it.... Depends on the city some...
But there's a push/pull between me and county and state cops. So long as they are not coming at me, there is a general respect there... to include fish cops. I have backed both county and state organizations when they have asked for it.
Feds are pretty much revenuers to me. And every time I get messed up with them turns out to be a bad experience. So they come knocking, I am heading out the back window, pretty much.
@roamer_1
I hate to admit this,but I wouldn't piss on a Fed if he or she was on fire.
AND.....,it just occurred to me that I actually had a friendly conversation with a retired FBI agent (31 years on the job) at a Hardees a couple of days ago. I did NOT know this when he sat down to talk with me.
He made a comment on a book I was reading as he passed by,we got to talking about one thing or another,and somehow the conversation switched to Harleys and LEO's,and I basically told him what I wrote above,adding that if I had remained in Denver another year or two,I would have been sniping at the bastards from the DPD from rooftops. He laughed.
He is the VP of a local group of Harley riders (all retired geezers that ride dressers),and he invited me to ride along with them some time if I ever become able to ride again.
I told him the absolute truth,and that is I HATE riding anywhere with anyone else. I want to be able to stop when I want to stop,and go when I want to go,and you just can't do that when riding with a group.
I am also VERY prone to wandering off to ride down secondary rural roads at slow speeds,just to look around and admire the scenery nature provides. It's peaceful.
Anyhow,he actually laughed when I told him my favorite ride when in Denver was about 10 miles out of town on a Sunday morning,so I could pull off to the side of the interstate,and smoke a joint and admire nature as the sun came up. To ME,this was the equivalent of taking a Quaalude about the size of a Buick. I could literally feel the tension leaving my body as the sun came up and the birds started singing. Haven't found anything in life that tops that.
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Anyhow,he actually laughed when I told him my favorite ride when in Denver was about 10 miles out of town on a Sunday morning,so I could pull off to the side of the interstate,and smoke a joint and admire nature as the sun came up. To ME,this was the equivalent of taking a Quaalude about the size of a Buick. I could literally feel the tension leaving my body as the sun came up and the birds started singing. Haven't found anything in life that tops that.
@sneakypete
I heard that. Same dang thing for me, except that I do it walking off for a week or four.
I hate coming back down. Especially when I have been out there a while....
But usually by then there is a cheeseburger calling my name. :laugh: :beer:
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Wow. You really don’t know a damned thing, and you’ll be damned if anyone else will change that.
Tell you what: come up to NYC and I can arrange for you to be arrested on the basis of an unconstitutional search. You can then spend the night in The Tombs, and enjoy running yourself through the meat grinder that is the NYC criminal courts.
At the end of that, see how long it takes you to get a lawyer to represent you in a section 1983 lawsuit for a violation of your constitutional rights.
I am telling you what happens as a matter of actual practical reality. You can deny reality all you want, but that doesn’t change the result.
And get a nice huge payday without a lawyer. Yeah it will take a couple years but there are huge payouts going out. It won't happen anyway. I have no reason to go to that sh!those of New York or anywhere else on the east coast for that matter.
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@Killer Clouds
Ok,you hate cops because obviously,at some time in your past you were abused/mistreated,and/or falsly arrested on some bogus charge.
I get it. Trust me on that one. I was riding a Harley chopper with long hair and a long beard in the early 70's. I wouldn't even hesitate to suggest I have probably been stopped for no real cause more than you,as well as arrested on bogus charges and jailed for 2 or 3 days and then released right before court started. At least once I had a car stolen that I had bought and was towing home while in the police pound. When I asked about it,I was told "we don't remember any car,and you have 30 minutes to get out of the county or you will be arrested again."
I lived in Denver for a few years back in the late 70's,and I am not exaggerating when I say that if I had continued to live in Denver for another couple of years,I would have ended up sniping at the DPD from rooftops.
YET,I have also had cops help me when I was broke down in one of the junk cars I used to drive,and ALL the local cops are as friendly as puppies to me for some odd reason. It is PROBABLY because all of them realize I am not a criminal,and absolutely no danger to them or anyone else as long as I am not pushed.
I have even had a coupe of county cops show up at my home late at night that were patrolling alone and called to go bust up a party in a farmers field,and ask me would I grab my 45 and ride along as backup. I was STRICTLY ordered to remain in the police car unless he was attacked and in danger. I happily did this because I would have wanted someone to back ME up if I had been in that same position,and these cops had always been friendly to me.
There is good and bad in every group of human beings you will ever run into. It is NOT fair to call ALL cops "pigs",and you have to know this at some level.
In FACT,you would be doing yourself a favor if you could teach yourself to "Chill a little" on this. I have had anger issues of my own in the past,and I do know what I am talking about here.
Just a few friendly words of advise,and worth every nickel they cost you.
@sneakypete
I speak from experience and like I've said many times pigs have earned the hate they deserve.
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@sneakypete
I speak from experience and like I've said many times pigs have earned the hate they deserve.
@Killer Clouds
Don't call cops "pigs." This is a warning. Capiche?
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@Killer Clouds
Don't call cops "pigs." This is a warning. Capiche?
Why not? They deserve it.
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@sneakypete
I speak from experience and like I've said many times pigs have earned the hate they deserve.
@Killer Clouds
IF you had put the word "SOME" in-between the words "times" and "have",I could go along with it,but I will NEVER go along with blanket hatred to an entire group or class of people.
I don't even hate the freaking Chinese. I DO hate their leadership,and the despicable form of government known as "Communism",though. The FACT is the China has never been anything but a slave state in all of recorded history.
And despite this sounding hypocritical to you,I hate every freaking dedicated Communist in the entire world,regardless of gender or race, because their ultimate goal it to turn the entire world into a planet of slaves.
BTW,I do NOT hate everyone in nations like China or Russia who claim to be Communists because if you are a slave in one of their slave states,you have to pretend you are a Communist and faithful Party member if you want to survive,and want to see your family survive.
As a Russian woman explained to me when I visited Russia as a tourist several months after the first collapse of the Communist Police State (Putin initiated the second Russian Police State) that had ruled Russia since 1917 that "We pretended to work,and they pretended to pay us."
People learn to adapt if they want to survive,and this is truer nowhere than in a police state like Russia and China.
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Why not? They deserve it.
@Killer Clouds
Ok,you are either an idiot or a fool. Or maybe even an idiot AND a fool.
And don't blame me for posting that. I didn't make you either. I just pointed it out.
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[IF you had put the word "SOME" in-between the words "times" and "have",I could go along with it,but I will NEVER go along with blanket hatred to an entire group or class of people.
I will go further than that - I will stand very firmly with the LEOs.... Despite my near frequent flyer status.
When push comes to shove, just like when Antifa was here, You can bet money where I will be.
Conservatives tend to be *FOR* law and order.
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1498/2894/products/thin-blue-line-flag-usa-5-x-3-ft-full-size-police-flag-for-men-and-women-of-law-enforcement-show-pride-for-your-local-police-100-polyester-with-reinforced-brass-grommets-indoor-outdoor-use-20.jpg?v=1506517300)
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@roamer_1
If I happen to see someone/someones physically attacking a cop and determine that the cop is at risk of serious bodily harm or even death,you can bet your ass I will help the cop.
We ALL must realize that ALL nations need cops in order to maintain the peace. Once the "dust has settled" and the attacker is cuffed,THAT is the time to look around an listen in order to determine who was wrong.
IF the cop doesn't act responsibly and professionally after the suspect is cuffed,THAT is the time to start taking mental notes so you can testify for the defense at the trial or hearing.
And,of course,if the cop starts beating the hell out of the cuffed prisoner,you do what you have to do to stop it. This happens VERY rarely,though. Mostly because by the time a suspect is subdued,a crowd has gathered,and the cops are VERY conscious of adverse media reporting. You just take note of any obvious injuries the suspect has at the moment the policeman/woman cuffs him or her,and then,once again,contact the defense attorney and tell him or her you are willing to testify to this in court.
Just like not all cops are bad,not all cops are good,either. After all,they are people,and none of us are perfect.
BTW,in the spirit of fairness,I admit to considering becoming a cop when I got out of the army.
Until I asked myself "What would you do if you arrested a child rapist?",and the answer was "Most likely I would tie him/her/multiple choice to the rear bumper of the patrol car
and drag him/her/whatever to the police station. It was then I realized I was just not cut out to become a cop.
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@sneakypete
Agreed.
Except for this part right here:
And,of course,if the cop starts beating the hell out of the cuffed prisoner,you do what you have to do to stop it. This happens VERY rarely,though.
I dunno. Kinda depends on the situation. There have been times the deputies showed up to haul off the bad guy, only to find out the guy had fallen up a few flights of stairs... with me and my buddies all witnessing how that worked... :whistle: The latest of those was when them Antifa folks were in town. Now, I wasn't in on it, but I know most of who was... And them folks were around a van hauling out tools to go start rioting, and a few of my friends caught on. Them fellers fell up the stairs a whole lot before the cops showed up... And said nothing. Ain't nobody that don't know what went on there.
And there was the time I caught a couple kids breaking into my saw box... There was blood and teeth everywhere by the time that was done (the dumb kid tried to hit me with my own dang shovel so I fed it to him)... And I fed his buddy my truck till he couldn't eat no more and was ready for a nap... Well, I come out of hulk mode and realized what I had done, and split... But some time after, I thought enough about it to know that for sure both of those kids wound up in the hospital, and it all happened in a parking lot with CC cams.
So I hauled myself out of bed and there I was down at the city cop shop at 1am, recounting the story to the desk... Which took a while since the cop couldn't quit giggling about it all the way through. But I was worried they were under age and that's why I figured I better fess up. So he called up to the hospital, and sure enough they were there, both were hammered up like I said, and both were under age (18 and 17). I started worrying about lawyers and such, but the cop said they'd fix it, and to go home and shut up.
And they did. Went down to hit them boys with charges and the whole 9 yards. Both had records, and both were angling for a way out, because they figured I was pressing assault and robbery charges, and the whole thing was on tape. It all just went away, and I never even got hit with the ambulance and hospital bills. Nothing. I got a full skate.
So if a cop were to get a little carried away... Depends on the situation... But for the right reasons, I probably owe them a couple of those.
Just like not all cops are bad,not all cops are good,either. After all,they are people,and none of us are perfect.
That's right.
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@Killer Clouds
IF you had put the word "SOME" in-between the words "times" and "have",I could go along with it,but I will NEVER go along with blanket hatred to an entire group or class of people.
I don't even hate the freaking Chinese. I DO hate their leadership,and the despicable form of government known as "Communism",though. The FACT is the China has never been anything but a slave state in all of recorded history.
And despite this sounding hypocritical to you,I hate every freaking dedicated Communist in the entire world,regardless of gender or race, because their ultimate goal it to turn the entire world into a planet of slaves.
BTW,I do NOT hate everyone in nations like China or Russia who claim to be Communists because if you are a slave in one of their slave states,you have to pretend you are a Communist and faithful Party member if you want to survive,and want to see your family survive.
As a Russian woman explained to me when I visited Russia as a tourist several months after the first collapse of the Communist Police State (Putin initiated the second Russian Police State) that had ruled Russia since 1917 that "We pretended to work,and they pretended to pay us."
People learn to adapt if they want to survive,and this is truer nowhere than in a police state like Russia and China.
@sneakypete
I don't need to put some in front of anything. There are more Blueline Mafia idiots out there than good cops. The snake is evil from the head to the tail.
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@Killer Clouds
Ok,you are either an idiot or a fool. Or maybe even an idiot AND a fool.
And don't blame me for posting that. I didn't make you either. I just pointed it out.
@sneakypete
And you can look in the mirror when making that same statement. It works both ways.
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@sneakypete
And you can look in the mirror when making that same statement. It works both ways.
@Killer Clouds
It's ok with me if you need to think that.
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@Killer Clouds
It's ok with me if you need to think that.
@sneakypete
I really don't care what you think.
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@sneakypete
I really don't care what you think.
You should care about what the Mods and Admins think.
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@Killer Clouds
Don't call cops "pigs." This is a warning. Capiche?
Cloud long ago won the honor of being the only TBR user (Along with Legal American) that I have ever put on ignore. Seems he is continually behaving true to form.
I suggest others do the same, and let him pound sand.
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@sneakypete
I really don't care what you think.
@Killer Clouds
Of course you do. You just don't want to admit it.
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@Killer Clouds
Of course you do. You just don't want to admit it.
@sneakypete
It seems you are bothered by the truth when you look in the mirror. Good you should be.
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@sneakypete
It seems you are bothered by the truth when you look in the mirror. Good you should be.
@Killer Clouds
Well,I AM known to be a sensitive guy.
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Cloud long ago won the honor of being the only TBR user (Along with Legal American) that I have ever put on ignore. Seems he is continually behaving true to form.
I suggest others do the same, and let him pound sand.
Wow. You must have missed Suppressed, KingsX and r9etb.
Now that was in the days when one really needed the ignore button.
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@Killer Clouds
IF you had put the word "SOME" in-between the words "times" and "have",I could go along with it,but I will NEVER go along with blanket hatred to an entire group or class of people.
He will simply say it is "A distinction without a difference, since 'most' outvotes the remainder."
And he really cares not that it is an incorrect statement, as in his own words "I think I said what I said. I am not interested in moderating it."
Grade school grammar is not his strong suit.
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He will simply say it is "A distinction without a difference, since 'most' outvotes the remainder."
And he really cares not that it is an incorrect statement, as in his own words "I think I said what I said. I am not interested in moderating it."
Grade school grammar is not his strong suit.
I don't give a rip about the grammar, but I don't like it when people call all cops "pigs" and I won't tolerate it. I was around in the 60's and that has always ticked me off. Too many Briefers are either Cops or have them in their family.
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He will simply say it is "A distinction without a difference, since 'most' outvotes the remainder."
And he really cares not that it is an incorrect statement, as in his own words "I think I said what I said. I am not interested in moderating it."
Grade school grammar is not his strong suit.
A handy retort... directed at me (those are my words)... Except @sneakypete was not talking to me, and I did not build the comment he was replying to.
Try to keep up...
And by the way, it is not an incorrect statement.