The Briefing Room

General Category => World News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on May 04, 2022, 02:38:05 pm

Title: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 04, 2022, 02:38:05 pm
Giving this another try.

This thread will be heavily moderated...do not insult, name call or harass another member...those posts will be deleted without warning. It's sad that I have to post this warning here.

Please do not make me regret this.

Nancy
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 04, 2022, 02:38:47 pm
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1521747435235815425
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 04, 2022, 02:39:47 pm
Azovstal steel plant evacuees never arrived in Zaporizhzhia, Mariupol mayor says

The civilians who arrived in Zaporizhzhia Tuesday were not the ones who were evacuated from the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol days earlier, according to its mayor.

The buses allegedly carrying Ukrainian civilians from the Azovstal steel plant were not actually from Mariupol but from "other cities," Mayor Vadym Boichenko said during a briefing at Media Center Ukraine.

"The previous evacuation, which took place yesterday, which was presented by a number of media outlets as information that those were the residents of Mariupol who left, is not true. These people who were evacuated had nothing to do with the residents of Mariupol, they are from other cities," Boichenko said.

For more on this story: https://www.foxnews.com/world/azovstal-steel-plant-evacuees-never-arrived-zaporizhzhia-mariupol-mayor

Posted by Lawrence Richard
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 04, 2022, 02:42:39 pm
Russia reveals massive scope of May 9 military parades as war in Ukraine rages on

Russia has revealed Wednesday  that tens of thousands of people and hundreds of aircraft are set to participate in military parades on May 9 to celebrate its victory in World War II.

The scope of the demonstrations, which were outlined by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu during a meeting with Moscow’s armed forces, come as President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is in its 70th day.

In a Telegram post summarizing the meeting, Russia’s Ministry of Defense said "11,000 people, 131 pieces of weapons and military equipment and 77 aircraft will take part in the parade on Red Square, dedicated to the 77th anniversary of the Victory."

For more on this story: https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-victory-day-may-9-parades-moscow-military
Posted by Greg Norman
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 04, 2022, 03:13:01 pm
 :bkmk:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 04, 2022, 03:15:18 pm
AP evidence points to 600 dead in Mariupol theater airstrike

AP evidence points to 600 dead in Mariupol theater airstrike
By LORI HINNANT, MSTYSLAV CHERNOV and VASILISA STEPANENKO
today


LVIV, Ukraine (AP) — She stood in just her bathrobe in the freezing basement of the Mariupol theater, coated in white plaster dust shaken loose by the explosion. Her husband tugged at her to leave and begged her to cover her eyes.

But she couldn’t help it — Oksana Syomina looked. And to this day, she wishes she hadn’t. Bodies were strewn everywhere, including those of children. By the main exit, a little girl lay still on the floor.

Syomina had to step on the dead to escape the building that had served as the Ukrainian city’s main bomb shelter for more than a week. The wounded screamed, as did those trying to find loved ones. Syomina, her husband and about 30 others ran blindly toward the sea and up the shore for almost five miles (eight kilometers) without stopping, the theater in ruins behind them.

“All the people are still under the rubble, because the rubble is still there — no one dug them up,” Syomina said, weeping at the memory. “This is one big mass grave.”

more
https://apnews.com/article/Russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-theater-c321a196fbd568899841b506afcac7a1
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 04, 2022, 03:39:48 pm
Russian Troops Steal $5M in Farm Vehicles, Remotely Locked Out Via GPS

Quote
Russian troops stole $5 million in farm vehicles from a John Deere dealership in the occupied city of Melitopol, Ukraine, but were unable to use any of the equipment because it had been locked remotely, CNN reports. 

"When the invaders drove the stolen harvesters to Chechnya, they realized that they could not even turn them on, because the harvesters were locked remotely," a source familiar with the incident the news outlet.

The remote access of the equipment allows for GPS tracking and some of the vehicles to be remotely operated, preventing them from being used.

The equipment is currently lying idle in the Zakhan-Yurt village of Chechnya, about 700 miles away, according to the source.

Melitopol has been under Russian occupation since early March.

Russian troops are in contact with “consultants in Russia who are trying to bypass the protection,” according to the source who spoke with CNN.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/russia-troops-farm-loot/2022/05/02/id/1068170/


 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 03:40:34 pm
Russian Troops Steal $5M in Farm Vehicles, Remotely Locked Out Via GPS

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/russia-troops-farm-loot/2022/05/02/id/1068170/


 :silly: :silly: :silly: :silly:


:silly:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 03:55:02 pm
'Putin's Holodomor': Russia steals 400,000 tonnes of grain from occupied Ukraine sparking fears of a devastating food crisis in the country in chilling echo of Stalin's famine

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
4 May 2022

Russia has stolen 400,000 tonnes of grain from occupied regions in Ukraine, an official has said, sparking fears of a devastating food crisis in the country.

Ukraine's minister of Agrarian Policy and Food, Taras Vysotsky, said that 100,000 tonnes had been taken from the Zaporizhia, Kherson, Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

The minister noted that the stolen grain was from each regions' supply set aside to be used before the next harvest, meaning there is a rising threat of famine amidst Russia's brutal invasion of the country.

Vysotsky's comments came after a video emerged from Ukraine that purportedly showed lorries carrying Ukrainian grain out of the country towards Russia.

The footage, filmed from inside a car driving along-side the lorries, showed a convoy of trucks with the pro-Russian war symbol 'Z' painted on the rear.

In addition to stealing grain, Russia has attacked grain silos, farming infrastructure and fertiliser stores, and has stolen millions of pounds worth of farming vehicles.

This has prompted accusations against Moscow that it is attempting to starve Ukraine's resistance by orchestrating a famine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10781737/Putins-Holodomor-Russia-steals-400-000-tonnes-grain-occupied-Ukraine.html



No surprise here.  The Russians have always seen famine as a tool of war.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 03:57:30 pm
Moment Russia uses 'thermobaric warheads' to devastate Azovstal plant: Communications are lost with heroic last defenders of Mariupol a day after Russian troops began storming the steel works

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
4 May 2022

Communications have today been lost with the last heroic defenders of Mariupol holed up inside the Azovstal steel works, after Russian forces stormed the complex.

Vadym Boichenko, mayor of the besieged city, said there is 'heavy fighting' ongoing inside the plant today and that he had 'lost contact' with those inside.

There is no way of knowing 'what's going on, whether they are safe or not,' he said.

The grim news came as footage emerged showing Russian forces using what appeared to be lung-crushing thermobaric rockets to bombard Azovstal as tanks and troops moved into the sprawling industrial zone.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10782185/Ukraine-war-Communications-lost-Mariupol-defenders.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 04:02:47 pm
Kremlin calls claims of Russian war declaration ‘nonsense’

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
May 4, 2022

Rumors that Russian President Vladimir Putin will declare a formal war against Ukraine on Victory Day next week are “nonsense,” Kremlin flack Dmitry Peskov said Wednesday.

“There is no chance of that. It’s nonsense,” Peskov said.

Victory Day, a celebration of the Soviet Union’s victory over Nazi Germany in World War II, is among Russia’s most important public holidays.

Putin has refused so far to call his massive invasion of neighboring Ukraine a war, despite his instigation of nonstop fighting, bombing and shelling across the country that has left thousands of civilians and soldiers dead.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/04/kremlin-calls-claims-of-russian-war-declaration-nonsense/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 04, 2022, 04:46:47 pm
Thanks for posting this, @mystery-ak!

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 05:08:17 pm
Russia taunts Finland by flying a military helicopter INTO its airspace as the Nordic country prepares to join NATO to the Kremlin’s fury

By AFP and ADAM SOLOMONS FOR MAILONLINE
4 May 2022

A Russian army helicopter violated Finland's airspace in an apparent attempt to frighten the country as it readies to join NATO.

The military Mi-17 transport chopper flew 2-3 miles inside the Finnish border after 10.30 this morning (7.30am GMT), according to the country's Ministry of Defence.

'The aircraft type is a Mi-17 helicopter and the depth of the suspected violation is about four to five kilometres', a ministry spokesman told AFP.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10782761/Russia-taunts-Finland-flying-military-helicopter-airspace-country-plans-NATO-entry.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 04, 2022, 05:55:18 pm
YAYZ NANCY, BEST ADMIN EVER !!!

(https://i.giphy.com/3oFzmnl3d2TuYA8LMA.gif)


@mystery-ak
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 06:05:32 pm
YAYZ NANCY, BEST ADMIN EVER !!!

(https://i.giphy.com/3oFzmnl3d2TuYA8LMA.gif)


@mystery-ak


Obsequious flattery will get one everywhere, right?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 04, 2022, 07:09:17 pm
Russia taunts Finland by flying a military helicopter INTO its airspace as the Nordic country prepares to join NATO to the Kremlin’s fury

By AFP and ADAM SOLOMONS FOR MAILONLINE
4 May 2022

A Russian army helicopter violated Finland's airspace in an apparent attempt to frighten the country as it readies to join NATO.

The military Mi-17 transport chopper flew 2-3 miles inside the Finnish border after 10.30 this morning (7.30am GMT), according to the country's Ministry of Defence.

'The aircraft type is a Mi-17 helicopter and the depth of the suspected violation is about four to five kilometres', a ministry spokesman told AFP.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10782761/Russia-taunts-Finland-flying-military-helicopter-airspace-country-plans-NATO-entry.html

Not surprising. Putin has said in the past that Finland's declaration of independence in 1918 was illegal. It's another piece of land he's hinted at retaking in the past.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 04, 2022, 07:11:18 pm
Russian airstrike on Mariupol drama theater killed 600 - AP

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3474955-russian-airstrike-on-mariupol-drama-theater-killed-600-ap.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3474955-russian-airstrike-on-mariupol-drama-theater-killed-600-ap.html)

Quote
About 600 civilians were killed in a Russian airstrike on the Mariupol drama theater on March 16.

That's according to an investigation conducted by the AP news agency, Ukrinform reports.

"An Associated Press investigation has found evidence that the attack was in fact far deadlier than estimated, killing closer to 600 people inside and outside the building. That's almost double the death toll cited so far, and many survivors put the number even higher," the agency said.

According to the report, the AP investigation recreated what happened inside the theater on that day from the accounts of 23 survivors, rescuers, and people intimately familiar with its new life as a bomb shelter.

The AP also drew on two sets of floor plans of the theater, photos and video taken inside before, during and after that day and feedback from experts who reviewed the methodology.

All the witnesses said at least 100 people were at a field kitchen just outside, and none survived. They also said the rooms and hallways inside the building were packed, with about one person for every 3 square meters of free space.

Many survivors estimated around 1,000 people were inside at the time of the airstrike, but the most anyone saw escape, including rescuers, was around 200. The survivors primarily left through the main exit or one side entrance; the other side and the back were crushed.

The AP investigation also refutes Russian claims that the theater was demolished by Ukrainian forces or served as a Ukrainian military base. None of the witnesses saw Ukrainian soldiers operating inside the building. And not one person doubted that the theater was destroyed in a Russian air attack aimed with precision at a civilian target everyone knew was the city’s largest bomb shelter, with children in it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 04, 2022, 07:30:50 pm
Belarus Is the Other Loser in Putin’s War

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/05/04/belarus-ukraine-russia-war-putin/ (https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/05/04/belarus-ukraine-russia-war-putin/)

Quote
Minsk enabled Moscow in its Ukraine war. Now, Belarusians are paying the price.

When Russia launched an attempted lightning assault on the Ukrainian capital, Kyiv, in February, neighboring Belarus served as a staging area for Russian forces, making the country an accomplice in Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine.

In the early phases of the war, thousands of Russian troops swarmed over Belarus’s border with Ukraine, just a few hundred miles from Kyiv. As the Russians quickly racked up deaths, their soldiers filled Belarus’s hospitals and morgues. When the Russians withdrew from the Kyiv region, having been beaten back by fierce Ukrainian resistance and their own operational shortcomings, they did so through Belarus.

Long a close ally of Moscow, Belarusian President Aleksandr Lukashenko was left wholly dependent on the Kremlin, which came to his rescue after mass protests in 2020 threatened his decadeslong grip on power. This dependence helped make Moscow’s assault on Kyiv possible. It has also indelibly tied Belarus’s fate to that of Ukraine.

​​“We see Belarus as deeply tied to the outcome in Ukraine. It is among the many reasons that what happens in Ukraine is going to reverberate well beyond its own borders,” said Julie Fisher, U.S. special envoy for Belarus. “It is an immediate and direct link when it comes to Belarus.”

Leaders of the Belarusian opposition movement in exile have argued that the war underscored the illegitimacy of Lukashenko, who began a fifth term in office in 2020 following elections widely regarded as having been falsified. Western countries imposed sanctions on Belarus and the Lukashenko regime for the violent crackdown that followed the elections and for facilitating the attack on Ukraine.

“He allowed our lands to be used as an aircraft carrier for Putin,” said Belarusian opposition leader Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya. “It was a cold shower for Belarusian people, how our country could be used to launch missiles on Ukrainian territory,” she said in an interview in Washington last week.

More at link.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 07:49:54 pm
Putin's 'chef' who runs feared Wagner mercenaries calls the West 'pathetic endangered perverts' who consider Russians to be 'third world scum' and warns 'victory will be ours' in extraordinary rant

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
4 May 2022

One of Putin's closest allies and suspected financer of the private military company Wagner Group has declared the West 'pathetic endangered perverts' and promised a Russian victory in Ukraine in his latest explosive interview.

Yevgeny Prigozhin - often referred to as 'Putin's chef' because of his past catering contracts with the Kremlin - launched a venomous rant at The Guardian this week in which he hit out at the perceived Western attitude towards Russians.

'You are a dying-out western civilisation that considers Russians, Malians, Central Africans, Cubans, Nicaraguans and many other peoples and countries to be third world scum,' the businessman announced.

'You are a pathetic endangered bunch of perverts, and there are many of us, billions of us. And victory will be ours!'

Prigozhin's fury came after The Guardian contacted him for a response to the discovery of evidence which appears to connect the Wagner Group to the massacre of around 300 civilians in Mali.

The shadowy group of mercenaries has been linked to a string of conflicts and brutal killings around the world and is widely thought to operate as Putin's private army, carrying out his dirty work at arms' length with no official ties to Moscow.

Wagner fighters are known to have deployed in Mali, assisting the junta that toppled the country's government in a 2020 military coup - and the 60-year-old Prigozhin is believed to be the group's main financial backer.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10782799/Putins-chef-runs-feared-Wagner-mercenaries-calls-West-pathetic-endangered-perverts.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 04, 2022, 08:05:10 pm
VLAD TO WORSE ‘Cancer-stricken’ Putin HUMILIATED as planned ‘victory over Ukraine’ parade is gutted by a third after massive losses

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18462359/victory-over-ukraine-parade-cut-back-over-losses/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18462359/victory-over-ukraine-parade-cut-back-over-losses/)

Quote
MAD VLAD's so-called "victory over Ukraine parade" is set to be a sorry sight after the Russian tyrant is forced to scale it down by a THIRD, figures show.

The Russian president - who is rumoured to be "Cancer stricken" - will face public humiliation as he rolls out his massively depleted military stock on May 9 following horrendous losses in Ukraine.

Vladimir Putin is set for a humiliating day on May 9 with a drastically cut back parade

The parade - held every year to commemorate the surrender of Nazi Germany in World War II - has been used by Russian leaders to flaunt their strength and demonstrate Russia’s military prowess.

But this year the show is 35-percent smaller, forcing Mad Vlad to dust down creaky equipment from the 1960s in a desperate effort to save face on Moscow's Red Square.

This will come as a massive blow to the tyrant who is understood to have set the May 9 date to declare some form of victory over Ukraine - whatever that may be.

But the invasion has been far from successful after facing massive resistance from hero Ukrainian fighters - forcing Putin's butchers to retreat and focus their operations in the eastern Donbas region.

The parade is therefore set to be a major humiliation, as it is revealed that the number of Russian Infantry Fighting Vehicles participating in the parade has been slashed by a whopping 50-percent.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 04, 2022, 08:33:30 pm
VLAD TO WORSE ‘Cancer-stricken’ Putin HUMILIATED as planned ‘victory over Ukraine’ parade is gutted by a third after massive losses

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18462359/victory-over-ukraine-parade-cut-back-over-losses/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/18462359/victory-over-ukraine-parade-cut-back-over-losses/)

Is Russia's rolling stock that depleted???
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 08:44:59 pm
Russia strikes Ukrainian railroads in effort to disrupt Western aid

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
May 4, 2022

Russian missiles struck Ukrainian railroad infrastructure and supply depots Wednesday, as the Kremlin called NATO vehicles and supplies “legitimate military targets.”

The strikes — by both sea- and air-borne missiles — took out electric power plants at five railway stations throughout Ukraine, and hit stores of fuel and ammunition.

The strikes were meant to disrupt the delivery of Western weapons to Ukraine, Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.

The coordinated effort to disrupt Ukrainian supply lines came as Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu declared NATO shipments — and any NATO vehicles carrying such shipments within Ukraine — legitimate targets.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/04/russia-strikes-ukrainian-railroads-in-effort-to-disrupt-western-aid/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 08:45:17 pm
Is Russia's rolling stock that depleted???

Apparently so.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 04, 2022, 08:48:45 pm
Apparently so.

Sounds to me, if I were so inclined, "Parade Day" in Red Square would be an optimal time to strike Mother Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 04, 2022, 08:54:25 pm
Russia has become dependent on Western technology/components to produce their toys. I can easily believe that as they deplete their stock they can't easily replace much of it. Russia produces very little beyond oil/gas, food and weapons. The other thing is as they deplete their stock the weapons used are going to become less and less sophisticated and more haphazard.

It takes economic strength to have military strength that can sustain a war. Russia does not have the economic strength to do it and is committing suicide by trying.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 04, 2022, 09:02:12 pm
 May 4, 2022 1:35pm EDT
Image appears to show bodies of Russian soldiers arranged in letter 'Z' after Ukraine recaptures village
The letter has become a sign of support for Russia's military and its invasion of Ukraine

By Greg Norman | Fox News

A grisly image has emerged purportedly showing bodies of Russian soldiers arranged in the letter "Z" after Ukraine’s military recaptured a village in the country’s east.

The photo was taken Monday outside the city of Kharkiv and shows four corpses lined up to form the letter that has become a sign of support for Russia’s military and its invasion of Ukraine.

The Associated Press described the area where its photographer took the image as having "the feel of an open-air morgue, where the dead lie unclaimed and unexplained, sometimes for weeks on end, as Ukrainian and Russian forces fight for control of slivers of land."

WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGE:

(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/05/1862/1048/Kharkiv-bodies.png?ve=1&tl=1)

more
https://www.foxnews.com/weather/image-russian-soldiers-kharkiv-ukraine
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 04, 2022, 09:03:09 pm
Footage shows assault on Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol

Wednesday 4 May 2022 21:54, UK


Footage released by Russia-backed separatists in Mariupol shows an assault on the Azovstal steelworks, where Ukrainian soldiers are trapped. Sky News has not been able to verify when the footage was taken.

Video at link.

https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-war-footage-shows-assault-on-azovstal-steelworks-in-mariupol-12605579
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 04, 2022, 09:04:21 pm
YAYZ NANCY, BEST ADMIN EVER !!!

(https://i.giphy.com/3oFzmnl3d2TuYA8LMA.gif)


@mystery-ak

Flattery will get you everywhere...  wink777
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 09:06:18 pm
May 4, 2022 1:35pm EDT
Image appears to show bodies of Russian soldiers arranged in letter 'Z' after Ukraine recaptures village
The letter has become a sign of support for Russia's military and its invasion of Ukraine

By Greg Norman | Fox News

A grisly image has emerged purportedly showing bodies of Russian soldiers arranged in the letter "Z" after Ukraine’s military recaptured a village in the country’s east.

The photo was taken Monday outside the city of Kharkiv and shows four corpses lined up to form the letter that has become a sign of support for Russia’s military and its invasion of Ukraine.

The Associated Press described the area where its photographer took the image as having "the feel of an open-air morgue, where the dead lie unclaimed and unexplained, sometimes for weeks on end, as Ukrainian and Russian forces fight for control of slivers of land."

WARNING: GRAPHIC IMAGE:

(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/05/1862/1048/Kharkiv-bodies.png?ve=1&tl=1)

more
https://www.foxnews.com/weather/image-russian-soldiers-kharkiv-ukraine

This is a potential war crime, btw.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 04, 2022, 09:38:25 pm
This is a potential war crime, btw.

Potential?  More like a kinetic one.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 04, 2022, 09:50:57 pm
Potential?  More like a kinetic one.

:silly:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 04, 2022, 11:42:59 pm
‘Deep into their cache’: Russia’s changing missile strikes in Ukraine could signal supply shortages

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2022/05/04/deep-into-their-cache-russias-changing-missile-strikes-in-ukraine-could-signal-supply-shortages.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2022/05/04/deep-into-their-cache-russias-changing-missile-strikes-in-ukraine-could-signal-supply-shortages.html)

Quote
Russia has fired more than 2,125 precision-guided missiles in Ukraine since the invasion began, but the increased use of “dumb” bombs and firing of anti-ship missiles at land targets lead experts and officials to believe its stocks are running low.

Dozens of precision missiles strikes a day are taking a toll not only on Ukraine, but on Russia, according to western military officials and experts.

Over 70 days of war in Ukraine, sophisticated and costly Russian missiles have targeted Ukrainian train stations, airfields, military command posts, weapons depots and staging areas where soldiers and weapons gather before the fight.

They have claimed Ukrainian lives, destroyed infrastructure and taken donated western weapons out of the fight.

But suspected Russian vulnerabilities are also coming to light.

On top of reports of high Russian casualty numbers and strategic difficulties on the battlefield, there are claims that Russia’s stocks of precision-guided missiles — rockets armed with technology to strike specific targets from a distance of up to 2,500 kilometres in some cases — are running low.

The U.S. Defense Department said this week that 2,125 missiles have been fired since the invasion of Ukraine began.

“This is definitely a high number. It’s certainly more than they (Russia) had planned on,” said Ian Williams, deputy director of the Missile Defense Project and a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Security.

In the lead-up to the invasion, some estimated the Russians would take control of Ukraine within days. But as the conflict entered its third month, Ukraine’s deputy defence minister, Anna Malyar, said last week that reserves of Russian missiles have “more than halved” since Feb. 24.

More evidence that Russia could be running short of its most expensive missiles comes from the increased use of cheaper, but more dangerous, “dumb” bombs. So called because they lack the microchips, sensors and satellite positioning systems, such weapons are increasingly likely to miss their targets and kill civilians.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 05, 2022, 02:25:49 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR6MTsWXoAAcu4b?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 05, 2022, 02:31:22 am
In the last 24 hrs:

300 KIA
15 Tanks
12 UAV
43 APC/Vehicles
16 Artillery systems
1 AA system
3 Cruise missiles
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 05, 2022, 02:50:19 am
   
    14,453 killed (claimed)
    118 jet aircraft   
    333 helicopters
    147 main battle tanks
    1,314 IFV/APCs
    433 artillery and mortars
    1,138 radio sets and command vehicles
    510 engineering vehicles
    11,369 trucks and petrol tankers


Oh wait, that was the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan...(a cheaper defeat)

Source: https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Soviet-Afghan_War (https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Soviet-Afghan_War)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 05, 2022, 04:26:47 am
Australian News Report

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_Sz-Kh2GLo)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 05, 2022, 04:45:59 am
The Ukrainian volunteers picking up guns to fight Russia - BBC News

May 4, 2022

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4VymaNlhC0)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 11:40:36 am
Ukraine repels some attacks but combat rages at steel mill

By Associated Press
May 5, 2022

LVIV, Ukraine — Ukrainian forces said Thursday they repelled Russian attacks in the east and recaptured some territory, even as Moscow moved to obstruct the flow of Western weapons to Ukraine by bombarding rail stations and other supply-line targets across the country.

Heavy fighting also raged at the Azovstal steel mill in Mariupol that represented the last stronghold of Ukrainian resistance in the ruined southern port city, the Ukrainian military reported. A Russian official earlier denied that troops were storming the plant, but the commander of the main Ukrainian unit inside said Russian soldiers had pushed into the mill’s territory.

“With the support of aircraft, the enemy resumed the offensive in order to take control of the plant,” the General Staff in Kyiv said, adding that the Russians were “trying to destroy Ukrainian units.”

To the west of Mariupol, Ukrainian forces made some gains on the border of the southern regions of Kherson and Mykolaiv, where Russian troops were reportedly trying to launch a counteroffensive, and repelled 11 Russian attacks in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions, the military said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/ukraine-repels-some-attacks-but-combat-rages-at-steel-mill/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 12:57:47 pm
'There will be no mercy': Russian TV host threatens 'concentration camps and sterilisation' for 'opponents of the letter Z'

By RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE
5 May 2022

A prominent Russian state TV host has warned that opponents of Russia's war in Ukraine will face harsh punishments including 'concentration camps and sterilisation'.

Karen Shakhnazarov, a pro-Putin filmmaker, said any 'opponents to the letter Z' - the symbol of Russia's invasion - will face 'no mercy'.

'The opponents of the letter Z must understand that if they are counting on mercy, no, there will be no mercy for them,' Shakhnazarov, who leads the state-backed Mosfilm film studio, said on the state-owned Russian television channel Russia 1.

'It's all become very serious. In this case, it means concentration camps, re-education and sterilisation.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785295/Russian-TV-host-threatens-concentration-camps-sterilisation-opponents-letter-Z.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 12:59:02 pm
'There will be no mercy': Russian TV host threatens 'concentration camps and sterilisation' for 'opponents of the letter Z'

By RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE
5 May 2022

A prominent Russian state TV host has warned that opponents of Russia's war in Ukraine will face harsh punishments including 'concentration camps and sterilisation'.

Karen Shakhnazarov, a pro-Putin filmmaker, said any 'opponents to the letter Z' - the symbol of Russia's invasion - will face 'no mercy'.

'The opponents of the letter Z must understand that if they are counting on mercy, no, there will be no mercy for them,' Shakhnazarov, who leads the state-backed Mosfilm film studio, said on the state-owned Russian television channel Russia 1.

'It's all become very serious. In this case, it means concentration camps, re-education and sterilisation.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785295/Russian-TV-host-threatens-concentration-camps-sterilisation-opponents-letter-Z.html


Wow.  Just wow.  Concentration camps and forced sterilization.  Whom does that remind one of?  Oh, yeah, the Nazis in WWII.

In other words, the canard about de-nazi-fying Ukraine was just that, a political lie.  The actual Nazis are in Russia, and they're seeking to re-nazify Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 01:02:56 pm
US intelligence 'has helped Ukraine kill multiple Russian generals' since Putin's troops invaded

By RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE and WIRES
5 May 2022

The United States has provided intelligence that has helped Ukrainian forces kill several Russian generals since Vladimir Putin's troops invaded the country, senior US officials said.

The US officials said that of the approximately 12 Russian generals killed by Ukrainian forces, 'many' had been targeted with the help of US intelligence, reports the New York Times.

Washington has provided Ukraine real-time battlefield information on Russia's expected troop movements and the location about Russia's mobile military headquarters, which relocate often.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10784941/US-intelligence-helped-Ukraine-kill-multiple-Russian-generals-Putins-troops-invaded.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 01:14:20 pm
Russia-Ukraine war: more weapons needed for Ukraine to launch counter-offensive, says Kyiv – live

And other updates on the Ukraine invasion from the Guardian:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/may/05/russia-ukraine-war-bloody-battles-inside-mariupol-steelworks-ukraine-claims-it-has-retaken-areas-near-kherson-live
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 05, 2022, 01:27:35 pm
Russians breach Azovstal steel plant, which remains under heavy fire

The besieged Azovstal steel plant where hundreds of civilians and Ukrainian fighters are believed to be sheltering remains under heavy fire, according to the Ukrainian military.

Late Wednesday, Ukrainian commander Denis Prokopenko said defenders inside the plant are fighting “difficult, bloody battles” with Russian troops and a member of parliament said the Russians had been able to enter the plant for the first time, according to Reuters.

“The extent of this Russian advance remains unclear, and Russian forces likely face further costly fighting if they intend to clear the entire facility,” the Washington, D.C.-based Institute for the Study of War said late Wednesday. “The Kremlin likely hopes that the successful capture of Azovstal through a ground assault will cement the Kremlin’s growing effort to claim complete control of Mariupol by May 9, [Russia's annual Victory Day] with Russian propagandists recently arriving in the city to set conditions for further claims of a Russian victory.”

Around 200 civilians are believed to be trapped inside the plant in the destroyed port city of Mariupol along with hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers.

Azovstal is the last Ukrainian holdout in the city and Russian President Vladimir Putin already claimed victory there late last month.

Russia had promised Wednesday that starting Thursday through Saturday civilians would be allowed to evacuate the plant but fighting continued overnight. A number of civilians were able to evacuate earlier this week.

Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko said that Russian forces were targeting the already shattered Azovstal plant with heavy artillery, tanks, aircraft, warships and “heavy bombs that pierce concrete 3 to 5 meters thick.”

“Our brave guys are defending this fortress, but it is very difficult,” he said.

A Russian official earlier denied that troops were storming the plant, but the commander of the main Ukrainian unit inside said Russian soldiers had pushed into the mill's territory.

“With the support of aircraft, the enemy resumed the offensive in order to take control of the plant,” the General Staff in Kyiv said, adding that the Russians were “trying to destroy Ukrainian units.”

The Associated Press contributed to this report.
Posted by Brie Stimson
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 05, 2022, 01:29:21 pm
Russian filtration camps are 'ghettos' of Mariupol, official says
Leaked footage shows harsh conditions for forcibly detained Ukrainian men in Russian filtration camp
By Caitlin McFall | Fox News

Mariupol’s advisor to the mayor said Thursday that the filtration camps set up by Russian forces outside the southern port city have become "ghettos" where men face torture and forced labor.

Petro Andryushchenko said three filtration camps have been established east of Mariupol in the village of Bezymiane – roughly 20 miles from the Russian border – which are believed to be housing 2,000 men who will be used in Russia's Victory Day parade on May 9.

The official said one video leaked from a camp in the Novoazovsk district shows that an old school building is being used to forcibly detain Ukrainian men taken from Guglino, Myrnyi and Volonterivka districts.

The men have reportedly been denied medical assistance or adequate care and at least one case of tuberculosis has been confirmed.

Russian soldiers reportedly turned the school gym into an isolation ward "where a large number of people were locked up without medical care."

more
https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-putin-zelenskyy-live
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 05, 2022, 01:35:57 pm
Another "whom to believe?" moment.
Quote
OSINT Aggregator
@AggregateOsint
Compilation of videos that shows the #Russian shelling of the Gorky Amusement Park in #Kharkiv. Many of the kids playgrounds and rides burned down after the strikes caused multiple fires.
7:05 PM · May 4, 2022

Gonzalo Lira
@GonzaloLira1968
I know this park intimately—I've taken my kids here many, many times.
Gorky Park is located 30km from the fighting—artillery shells do not travel 30km.
This was carried out by Zelensky regime forces—for the propaganda victory to blame the Russians.
12:13 AM · May 5, 2022

TruthZeeker
@ZeekerTruth
Replying to @GonzaloLira1968
Do not underestimate the power and range of RU artillery! They are far superior than western artillery with their puny range of 30 km. I understand you are used to western military standards, but this is Russian equipment!!
7:15 AM · May 5, 2022

Gonzalo Lira
@GonzaloLira1968
BTW, it's no surprise that they have such good footage from so many cameras with high frame rates.
The cameras are to spot lost children, and get good face pictures of bad actors.
What IS surprising is that the cameras were operating—when the park is most definitely closed.
12:39 AM · May 5, 2022
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 01:40:28 pm
Another "whom to believe?" moment.

The Russians have artillery that can fire more than 20 miles, and therefore can fire more than 30km.  And they are reported to be using this long-range artillery in Ukraine:  https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-powerful-russian-artillery-big-gun-to-destroy-ukraine-2022-3
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 02:43:04 pm
Russia reportedly loses most advanced tank during fighting in Ukraine

By Yaron Steinbuch
May 5, 2022

Russia has suffered another military embarrassment after Ukrainian forces reportedly destroyed its most advanced tank, the T-90M — just days after it was deployed.

Illia Ponomarenko, the Kyiv Independent’s defense reporter, posted an image Wednesday of the smoldering wreck after the tank was hit.

“I mean, who could guess that the first Russian T-90M would be hunted down within days after their much-advertised deployment to Ukraine’s Kharkiv Oblast,” he wrote.

A statement on Ukraine’s Defense Ministry website confirmed that the tank had been struck, according to Newsweek.

The much-ballyhooed main battle vehicle belongs to the T-90 series — the successor to the venerable T-72, according to The Drive.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/russia-reportedly-loses-most-advanced-tank-in-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 05, 2022, 03:23:32 pm
It SEEMS to me that the Russians are emphasizing Putin's cancer.

MAYBE they are working out a plan to use that as an excuse to explain away his failed invasion of Ukraine,and therefore,an excuse to remove him from office for "health reasons" instead of disgrace?

After all,they can't disgrace the leader of Russia without disgracing Russia.

Seems to ME that the skids are already greased to remove Pooty-Poot from office.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 05, 2022, 03:28:34 pm
Sounds to me, if I were so inclined, "Parade Day" in Red Square would be an optimal time to strike Mother Russia.

@Cyber Liberty

Yeah,THAT's the ticket! Perform an actual military attack on "Holy Mother Russia" instead of verbal news attacks on the leadership!

Good thinking! Ain't NOTHING that will prevent another world-wide war than an actual military attack on Moscow on the anniversary of their annual "Victory over Germany Day" parade! </S>

Don't know many Russians,do you?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 05, 2022, 03:41:48 pm
@Cyber Liberty

Yeah,THAT's the ticket! Perform an actual military attack on "Holy Mother Russia" instead of verbal news attacks on the leadership!

Good thinking! Ain't NOTHING that will prevent another world-wide war than an actual military attack on Moscow on the anniversary of their annual "Victory over Germany Day" parade! </S>

Don't know many Russians,do you?

I did not say I approve of such an action, just pointing out that Russia has lost so much hardware in the stupid war that if they have a parade, it leaves nothing with which to actually fight.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 05:26:44 pm
Medic, 27, becomes the first female Russian soldier to be killed in Ukraine as she is fatally wounded by mortar strike in Mariupol

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
5 May 2022

Russia has lost its first female soldier during the war in Ukraine after a frontline medic was killed by mortar fire in the battle for Mariupol.

Valentina Galatova, 27 and a mother-of-one, died fighting in the Black Sea port city last month though her death was only confirmed by Russian media on Wednesday.

Galatova was born in Siberia but moved to Voronezh, around 170 miles north-west of the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, when she was young. 

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785589/Ukraine-war-Medic-Russias-female-solider-killed-conflict.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 05, 2022, 06:12:17 pm
'There will be no mercy': Russian TV host threatens 'concentration camps and sterilisation' for 'opponents of the letter Z'

    Karen Shakhnazarov, a pro-Putin filmmaker, warned that opponents of Russia's war in Ukraine will face harsh punishments
    He said on RussianTV that opponents should be placed in concentration camps
    In a similar tone to that of Shakhnazarov's, Vladimir Putin recently likened opposition figures to 'gnats' and 'traitors' who try to weaken the Russia

By Rachael Bunyan For Mailonline

Published: 08:23 EDT, 5 May 2022 | Updated: 08:34 EDT, 5 May 2022

A prominent Russian state TV host has warned that opponents of Russia's war in Ukraine will face harsh punishments including 'concentration camps and sterilisation'.

Karen Shakhnazarov, a pro-Putin filmmaker, said any 'opponents to the letter Z' - the symbol of Russia's invasion - will face 'no mercy'.

'The opponents of the letter Z must understand that if they are counting on mercy, no, there will be no mercy for them,' Shakhnazarov, who leads the state-backed Mosfilm film studio, said on the state-owned Russian television channel Russia 1.

more
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785295/Russian-TV-host-threatens-concentration-camps-sterilisation-opponents-letter-Z.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 05, 2022, 06:17:23 pm
I did not say I approve of such an action, just pointing out that Russia has lost so much hardware in the stupid war that if they have a parade, it leaves nothing with which to actually fight.

@Cyber Liberty

Don't believe that for a minute. NO nation is going to expend the arms needed for defense on anything BUT defense.

Russia will use those weapons and manpower ONLY if she is invaded. Assuming of course that someone is foolish enough to invade her.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 05, 2022, 06:19:20 pm
Medic, 27, becomes the first female Russian soldier to be killed in Ukraine as she is fatally wounded by mortar strike in Mariupol

 
Galatova was born in Siberia but moved to Voronezh, around 170 miles north-west of the Ukrainian city of Kharkiv, when she was young. 

*  *  *
@Kamaji

Well,now we know why she joined the Russian Army.
Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10785589/Ukraine-war-Medic-Russias-female-solider-killed-conflict.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 05, 2022, 07:07:07 pm
@Cyber Liberty

Don't believe that for a minute. NO nation is going to expend the arms needed for defense on anything BUT defense.

Russia will use those weapons and manpower ONLY if she is invaded. Assuming of course that someone is foolish enough to invade her.

Makes total sense, @sneakypete!  :beer:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 05, 2022, 08:07:26 pm
The United States has provided intelligence that has helped Ukrainian forces kill several Russian generals since Vladimir Putin's troops invaded the country, senior US officials said.

Senior US officials are complete idiots, considering that their action is in violation of US law.   I applaud the action, but am appalled at the idiocy of those bragging about it.  Keep your mouths shut!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 05, 2022, 08:17:45 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FR_In5PXMAIVIou?format=jpg&name=small)

In the last 24 hrs:

200 KIA
2  Fixed wing aircraft
15 Tanks
9  UAV
41 APC/Vehicles
8  Artillery systems
6  MLRS
2  AA systems
2  Cruise missiles
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 08:34:57 pm
Senior US officials are complete idiots, considering that their action is in violation of US law.   I applaud the action, but am appalled at the idiocy of those bragging about it.  Keep your mouths shut!

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 08:40:54 pm
Russians to dress Ukrainian POWs in uniforms for Mariupol parade: official

By Snejana Farberov
May 5, 2022

Russian forces are planning to dress up thousands of Ukrainian prisoners of war in military uniforms during next week’s Victory Day parade in Mariupol, a Ukrainian official claimed Thursday.

Petro Andryushchenko, an aide to the mayor of the besieged port city, wrote on his Telegram channel that officials have learned that nearly 2,000 Ukrainians are being housed in three filtration camps in the hamlet of Bezimenne, which he likened to “ghettos.”   

“These men are held there and they are told that they will be made to wear the Ukrainian [military] uniform and to participate in a so-called ‘war prisoners parade’ in Mariupol because they [the Russians] lack actual prisoners of war,” the adviser said on a national newscast, Ukrainian media reported.

“It will be a grotesque crowd scene for another propaganda image,” he added.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/russians-to-dress-ukrainians-in-uniforms-for-mariupol-parade/

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 08:41:08 pm
Russians to dress Ukrainian POWs in uniforms for Mariupol parade: official

By Snejana Farberov
May 5, 2022

Russian forces are planning to dress up thousands of Ukrainian prisoners of war in military uniforms during next week’s Victory Day parade in Mariupol, a Ukrainian official claimed Thursday.

Petro Andryushchenko, an aide to the mayor of the besieged port city, wrote on his Telegram channel that officials have learned that nearly 2,000 Ukrainians are being housed in three filtration camps in the hamlet of Bezimenne, which he likened to “ghettos.”   

“These men are held there and they are told that they will be made to wear the Ukrainian [military] uniform and to participate in a so-called ‘war prisoners parade’ in Mariupol because they [the Russians] lack actual prisoners of war,” the adviser said on a national newscast, Ukrainian media reported.

“It will be a grotesque crowd scene for another propaganda image,” he added.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/russians-to-dress-ukrainians-in-uniforms-for-mariupol-parade/




Another war crime by the Russians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 08:42:57 pm
Russia simulated nuclear missile strikes near the border with NATO

By Lee Brown
May 5, 2022

Russia carried out ominous simulated nuclear missile strikes this week on the border with the European Union and NATO, according to reports.

The Kremlin confirmed the war games Wednesday in Kaliningrad, a small Baltic Sea enclave sandwiched between EU nations Poland and Lithuania, both also members of NATO, according to the Moscow Times.

It included simulated “electronic launches” of nuclear-capable Iskander mobile ballistic missile systems, the independent paper said, citing a defense ministry statement.

The Russian forces practiced multiple strikes at targets imitating launchers of missile systems, airfields, protected infrastructure, military equipment and command posts of a mock enemy, the statement said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/russia-simulated-nuclear-missile-strikes-near-border-with-nato/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 08:44:02 pm
Israel accepts Putin apology over Hitler comments

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
May 5, 2022

Israeli Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said Thursday that he’d accepted an apology from Russian President Vladimir Putin over the Kremlin’s contention that Adolf Hitler had had “Jewish origins.”

Bennett’s office said the apology took place during a phone call Thursday, in which the two leaders also discussed the further evacuation of civilians trapped in Mariupol’s Azovstal steel plant, the last holdout for Ukrainian defenders in the ruined port city.

An account of the call on Russian state-run news site RIA Novosti made no mention of the apology.

The Hitler comment — made Sunday by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov — drew a sharp rebuke this week from Bennett, who accused the Russian minister of ​using the Holocaust as a “battering ram.”

“When they say, ‘What sort of nazification is this if we are Jews,’ well, I think that Hitler also had Jewish origins, so it means nothing​,” Lavrov said when asked by Italian media how Russia could claim to “denazify” a country with a Jewish president.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/israel-accepts-putin-apology-over-hitler-comments/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 09:23:41 pm
The Russian Army Wasn't Designed for War and Putin's War in Ukraine Is Proving It

By streiff
May 05, 2022

Towards the end of March, at a point where Putin’s War seemed to be unraveling, but some of us were still having trouble coming to grips with the abysmal performance of the Russian armed forces, an amusing story hit the internet. Some 300 South Ossetian soldiers who had volunteered to give their lives fighting in Ukraine for their country’s Russian puppeteer showed back up home. They had walked and hitchhiked some 500 as-the-crow-flies miles back home from the battlefield.

I don’t know that Putin was humiliated or capable of feeling that emotion, but his military chiefs had made a big show of all the loyal friends of Russia showing up to kill the nasty nazis in Ukraine. So 300 of them legging it home was, at least, untoward. It raised some eyebrows at home, too.

https://twitter.com/rajdianos/status/1509244398944538630

*  *  *

More information on that debacle was made available today in an interview South Ossetian President Anatoly Bibilov had with the “deserters.”

What ensues is an Airing of Grievances worthy of any Festivus Celebration.

*  *  *

https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1521793724174450689

*  *  *

Source:  https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/05/05/the-russian-army-wasnt-designed-for-war-and-putins-war-in-ukraine-is-proving-it-n560026
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on May 05, 2022, 09:50:56 pm
The Russian Army Wasn't Designed for War and Putin's War in Ukraine Is Proving It

By streiff
May 05, 2022


That was a fascinating read, thank you for posting.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 05, 2022, 09:52:46 pm
That was a fascinating read, thank you for posting.


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 05, 2022, 11:36:49 pm
Senior US officials are complete idiots, considering that their action is in violation of US law.   I applaud the action, but am appalled at the idiocy of those bragging about it.  Keep your mouths shut!

Could the Senior US Officials have been ordered to blab?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 06, 2022, 12:48:41 am
Briton who joined Azov Regiment with far-right origins says they're not 'monsters and psychos'

Mark Ayres has spent the past two months in Ukraine after joining the Azov Regiment, which originated as a far-right paramilitary unit. The British Army veteran insists he has challenged some Azov fighters over their beliefs and those he has met are not "monsters and psychos".

David Mercer  |  5 May 2022  |  10:55, UK

A British man who joined a controversial Ukrainian military unit says he is willing to spend the next year defending against Russia's invasion - and he has not been deterred by the capture of other Britons.


Mark Ayres has spent the past two months in Ukraine after joining the Azov Regiment, which has far-right origins - insisting he has challenged some members over their beliefs, and those he has met are not "monsters and psychos".

The 47-year-old British Army veteran, who has a teenage son in the UK, first spoke to Sky News when he arrived in Ukraine in early March, despite having no links to the country.

Since then, Mr Ayres says he has helped the Azov Regiment defend the city of Bucha, where Russia is accused of committing war crimes with mass killings and the torture, rape and murder of civilians.

He has now been told he must wait in Kyiv to sign a contract with the Ukrainian army before taking part in any further military action, after several Britons were captured by Vladimir Putin's troops.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-briton-who-joined-azov-regiment-with-far-right-origins-says-theyre-not-monsters-and-psychos-12605181


(https://e3.365dm.com/22/05/1600x900/skynews-mark-ayres-comp_5760419.jpg)
Mark Ayres has been serving with Ukraine's Azov military unit
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 06, 2022, 04:02:28 am
Pro-Russian Fighter With Nazi Patches Gets Medal for Killing 'Nazis'

BRENDAN COLE ON 4/5/22 AT 10:38 AM EDT


The claim that Russian President Vladimir Putin is seeking the "denazification" of Ukraine clashed with reality after video showed a pro-Russian soldier wearing neo-Nazi symbols while being awarded a medal for fighting in the city of Mariupol.

Putin and the Kremlin have pushed propaganda to justify the invasion of Ukraine by claiming the government in Kyiv is run by Nazis, despite Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky being Jewish. The claims have been rejected by Zelensky and the international community.

Moscow has also inflated the role in Ukraine's military of the Azov Battalion, a far-right paramilitary group in the besieged southern port city of Mariupol.

Video shared by Storyful shows a soldier, named as Lieutenant Roman Vorobyov from the "Somalia" motorized rifle battalion, receiving the "St. George's Cross II" award while wearing far-right insignia.

Receiving the award on Sunday from Denis Pushilin, who is the Putin-sponsored head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, two patches are visible on Vorobyov's right arm.

One is a modified version of a skull-and-crossbones emblem used by Nazi Germany's 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf, an elite division of the Waffen-SS. The other is the Valknut, or Odin's knot, which is a symbol of interlocking triangles from Norse mythology commonly used by neo-Nazis.  .  .  .

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FFPgmjKPWYAExfUD.jpg%3Alarge&f=1&nofb=1)

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-mariupol-azov-nazi-1695125

Looks like the real nazis here are the DPR - the ones Putin has been supporting for the last eight years.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 11:46:44 am
The only real difference between the Nazi's and the Soviets were the uniforms.

The prime reason Germany invaded Russia because NO dictator wants competition,and Nazi Germany thought they could do it and win. And,in truth,they came close.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 06, 2022, 11:48:10 am
Russia faces 'sabotage' epidemic after arms manufacturers, chemical plants and a military enlistment office are all destroyed

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
5 May 2022

Russia appears to be facing an upsurge in sabotage of facilities with military links amid the war in Ukraine.

A video shows how a Russian military enlistment office was hit by multiple Molotov cocktails as speculation intensifies that Vladimir Putin is to introduce mass army mobilisation.

And a series of fires - one of which officially killed 22 at a defence ministry missile design research institute, and another with three deaths at an explosives plant - are also seen as possible arson with Russian officials covering up or minimising some of the attacks.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10787965/War-Ukraine-Sabotage-attack-Russian-chemical-plant.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 06, 2022, 11:51:45 am
Putin order to hit the West with nukes ‘would be IGNORED because top commanders think he is dying or gravely ill’, Moscow expert claims

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
6 May 2022

An order by Vladimir Putin to strike Ukraine or the West with nuclear weapons would be ignored by his top commanders, a senior investigative journalist has said.

Many leading military and security officials as well as oligarch cronies believe Putin to be dying or gravely ill, said Christo Grozev, who is an expert on Russian affairs and is associated with the Bellingcat open source research group.

Believing that Putin could soon die, his inner circle would not risk being hauled before a modern equivalent of the Nuremberg trials for unleashing Armageddon, nor would they obey a Putin order to kill opposition foes, Mr Grozev claimed.

The Russian president placed Moscow's nuclear forces on high alert shortly after his invasion of Ukraine began February 24, raising fears he could press the button as the war in Ukraine continues to go against him.

And amid increasing Western support to Ukraine, Putin has made thinly veiled threats hinting at a willingness to deploy Russia's tactical nuclear weapons, which Russian military doctrine holds can be used to force an adversary to retreat.

Meanwhile, Russia has increasingly resorted to nuclear sabre-rattling as the war in Ukraine has stumbled, with state media last week issuing near-daily threats - including one to wipe out the UK and Ireland with a 'nuclear tidal wave'.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10788931/Putin-order-hit-West-nukes-IGNORED-Moscow-expert-claims.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 06, 2022, 11:53:25 am
Putin sends his men to their deaths at Azovstal steelworks in desperate bid to secure the giant complex for a symbolic victory in Mariupol in time for May 9 Victory Day parade

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
6 May 2022

Desperate Vladimir Putin has ordered his troops on a bloody mission to seize the Azovstal steel works in Mariupol so he can have a victory to gloat over during celebrations in Russia next week, British intelligence believes.

Heavy fighting has now been going on inside the sprawling industrial complex - the last holdout of Ukrainian defenders in the key Black Sea port city - for three days, despite Putin going on Russian state TV just two weeks ago to publicly call off the operation to 'preserve the lives and health of our soldiers and officers.'

The assault is thought to be linked to May 9 Victory Day celebrations in Russia, when the country marks the surrender of Nazi Germany at the end of the Second World War and which Putin typically uses for a chest-beating display of Russian patriotism and military might complete with parades and flag-waving crowds.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10788553/Ukraine-war-Desperate-Putin-ordered-Azoval-attack-boast-victory-9.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 11:59:55 am
Russia faces 'sabotage' epidemic after arms manufacturers, chemical plants and a military enlistment office are all destroyed

 @Kamaji

Ya kinda have to wonder what will happen first in Russia.

Will the geezers on the Politburo realize that Russia is no longer the police state of their father's and accept reality by retiring,or will they be dragged out of the Kremlin to be hanged from street lamps?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 06, 2022, 12:05:36 pm


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 06, 2022, 12:54:02 pm
Putin sends his men to their deaths at Azovstal steelworks

(https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2955607/enemy-at-the-gates-800.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 06, 2022, 12:58:37 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSEMylxWQAI-BBy?format=jpg&name=small)

In the last 24 hrs:

200 KIA
3  Fixed wing aircraft
18 Tanks
12 UAV
35 APC/Vehicles
3  Artillery systems
2  MLRS
1  Cruise missile
1  Boat
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 06, 2022, 01:25:32 pm
Has Ukraine blasted ANOTHER Russian warship? MP says frigate is 'in trouble' in the Black Sea and suggests it has been hit with a missile

By CHRIS PLEASANCE  and WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
6 May 2022

Ukraine may have shot another Russian warship overnight with an MP saying one of Putin's state-of-the-art frigates is 'in trouble' in the Black Sea.

Oleksiy Goncharenko, head of the council of Odesa which houses Ukraine's largest naval base, identified the vessel on his Telegram channel this morning as the Admiral Makarov - a $500million frigate that was only commissioned five years ago.

He said the vessel ran into difficulties overnight, before reposting a report from a local news outlet suggesting it had been shot with a Ukrainian missile near Snake Island - whose defenders memorably told another warship to 'go f*** yourself'.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10789563/Ukraine-war-Russian-battleship-hit-Black-Sea.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 06, 2022, 01:33:08 pm
What a coincidence.  This was posted just 7 hrs ago:



The Russian Frigate ‘Admiral Makarov’ Might Be The Juiciest Target In The Black Sea

David Axe, Forbes Staff - 7h ago


After the dramatic sinking of the missile-cruiser Moskva by a Ukrainian missile battery on April 14, the Russian Black Sea Fleet is down to just three major surface combatants. The best and most important of them might be the new missile-frigate Admiral Makarov.

(https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAWYuuD.img?w=768&h=360&m=6)

And that makes the 409-foot Admiral Makarov perhaps the most valuable target for Ukrainian missile crews and drone operators. We don’t know exactly how of its best Neptune anti-ship missiles the Ukrainian navy has left or whether Kyiv’s TB-2 drones are hunting for the Russian frigate or her Black Sea sisters.

In any event, it’s apparent Russian fleet commanders appreciate the danger. There’s evidence Admiral Makarov’s skipper has been taking pains to keep her away from the Ukrainian coast.

Distance could help to protect Admiral Makarov. But that same distance precludes the frigate from actually doing her job, protecting the Black Sea Fleet’s other vessels from air- and missile-attack.

Commissioned in 2017, Admiral Makarov is the third, last and most modern vessel in her class. All three of the Admiral Grigorovich-class frigates belong to the Black Sea Fleet.  .  .

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-russian-frigate-e2-80-98admiral-makarov-e2-80-99-might-be-the-juiciest-target-in-the-black-sea/ar-AAWYA1z
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 06, 2022, 01:42:14 pm
Ukrainian fighters in Azovstal steel plant refuse to surrender, will 'stand till the end': commander

Ukrainian fighters defending the Azovstal steel plant, devastated Mariupol’s last Ukrainian holdout, plan to "stand till the end" as Russian fighters continue their second day of a ground assault on the plant.

The wife of Azov Regiment commander Denys Prokopenko said the fighters "won’t surrender. They only hope for a miracle."

She said she spoke to her husband on the phone Thursday, and he said he would love her forever. "I am going mad from this," she said. "It seemed like words of goodbye."

For more on this story: https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukrainian-fighters-in-azovstal-steel-plant-refuse-to-surrender-will-stand-till-the-end-commanders-wife

Posted by Brie Stimson
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 06, 2022, 01:42:56 pm
Germany to send self-propelled howitzers to Ukraine

 Germany plans to send seven self-propelled howitzers in the coming weeks that can hit targets 25 miles away to Ukraine after it reversed a policy against supplying heavy artillery in battle, German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht said Friday, according to report.

Germans will be training a group of Ukrainian soldiers, who have experience with Soviet-made howitzers, starting next week in Germany, Reuters reported.

The Netherlands also plans to send five howitzers.
Posted by Brie Stimson
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 06, 2022, 01:43:48 pm
https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1522502745323933696
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 06, 2022, 01:52:41 pm
(https://i.imgflip.com/6er9bk.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 02:35:24 pm
(https://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2955607/enemy-at-the-gates-800.jpg)

@Hoodat

That's a photo from WW-1 or WW-2. Notice all the soldiers who are carrying rifles are carrying bolt-action rifles,and that some of the soldiers in this assault don't even have rifles. Soviet doctrine was to save money by sending in some soldiers on assaults who were unarmed,and let them take the arms and ammo from other soldiers who were killed in the assault.

If the Germans happened to shoot and kill an unarmed soldier instead of one carrying arms,that was good too,because it left an experienced soldier still armed and still on the assault.

The unarmed soldiers were replacements for those who were previously wounded or killed in action.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 06, 2022, 02:40:08 pm
@Hoodat
That's a photo from WW-1 or WW-2. Notice all the soldiers are carrying bolt-action rifles.
No matter which year it is, this is still Russia after all.
So ... I wouldn't be surprised to see men on horseback with sabers.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 06, 2022, 05:44:08 pm
Warship Moskva was Blind to Ukrainian Missile Attack, Analysis Shows

Sam LaGrone   •   May 5, 2022 6:19 PM   •   Updated: May 5, 2022 10:10 PM


The crew of RTS Moskva (121) was blind to and not ready for the Ukrainian missile attack that sank Russia’s Black Sea flagship, according to a new analysis of the April 13 strike reviewed by USNI News.

The review of images following the strike of the two Neptune anti-ship missiles from open-source naval analyst and retired Navy Capt. Chris Carlson told USNI News that the guided-missile cruiser did not have its radars activated and could not see the threat from the two weapons.

In the photo of Moskva after the strike, the radars “are in their normal stowed position,” Carlson told USNI News on Monday.

“If you look at the pictures of Moskva, when she’s just dancing around going from place to place, or she’s anchored as a showboat, those directors are all facing aft every time,” he said.  .  .

(https://news.usni.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-05-at-6.08.57-PM.png)
Analysis from Chris Carlson shows how the radars on the ship were in their stowed position in photos following the missile strike. Images used with permission

.  .  .  In particular, the radar system that would have directed Moskva’s OSA-M surface to air missiles to counter the Ukrainian missiles appears to not have been active with its emitters stowed, based on the photograph.

“If you’re not running it, your point defense [surface to air missiles] are not going to be playing,” Carlson said.

In addition, on Moskva, “you’ve got old stuff, which means it’s temperamental. It’s hard to maintain, and at-sea maintenance has not been a Russian strength.”  .   .

https://news.usni.org/2022/05/05/warship-moskva-was-blind-to-ukrainian-missile-attack-analysis-shows
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 06, 2022, 07:01:49 pm
‘I Simply Refuse’: Wiretaps Catch Putin’s Troops Breaking Own Tanks in Sabotage Scheme

https://www.thedailybeast.com/intercepted-calls-catch-russian-troops-sabotaging-vladimir-putins-war-plans-by-breaking-tanks?ref=scroll (https://www.thedailybeast.com/intercepted-calls-catch-russian-troops-sabotaging-vladimir-putins-war-plans-by-breaking-tanks?ref=scroll)

Quote
Russian troops have begun sharing tips with one another on how to deliberately damage Russian tanks and disobey orders, according to Ukrainian intelligence.

Russian fighters have been sharing tips with one another about how to deliberately damage their own equipment and hamper Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war plans in Ukraine, according to recordings of alleged Russian troops’ phone calls that the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) intercepted.

In one regiment, one Russian soldier allegedly said they’ve been pouring sand into the tanks’ fuel systems to clog them up.

“I don't follow stupid orders, I simply refuse,” one fighter can be heard telling a comrade. “The motherf*cker sent me to tanks, motherf*cking piece of shit. I f*cked it up and that's it.”

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 06, 2022, 07:07:33 pm
Pro-Kremlin separatists put up Russian road signs in Mariupol

By Snejana Farberov
May 6, 2022

Pro-Moscow separatists were pictured this week taking down Ukrainian and English road signs outside the besieged city of Mariupol — and replacing them with Russian ones.

The Ministry of Transport of the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) — a Russia-backed breakaway state in eastern Ukraine — said in a statement Thursday that it has been changing signage in “liberated cities” in the contested region, where some of the fiercest fighting is taking place.

The agency released photos of workers in orange vests taking down and carrying away a sign in Ukrainian and English that used to greet motorists entering the now-leveled city of Mariupol.

A photo that was shared separately on DNR’s Telegram channel showed a work crew installing a new road sign, with the name Mariupol written only in Russian.

“It used to be Маріуполь [Ukrainian spelling] – now it’s Мариуполь [Russian spelling],” a caption read.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/06/pro-kremlin-separatists-erect-russian-road-signs-in-mariupol/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 06, 2022, 07:17:33 pm
Russia-Ukraine war: What would a victory look like now to Putin?

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/5/6/russia-ukraine-war-what-would-a-victory-look-like-now-to-putin (https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/5/6/russia-ukraine-war-what-would-a-victory-look-like-now-to-putin)

Quote
Having failed to take over Ukraine, what are President Putin’s military prospects now? Three defence experts weigh in.

Russia’s Victory Day parade is an annual extravagance in Red Square. Falling on May 9, it commemorates the Nazi surrender of World War II with a lavish spectacle meant to project might. Formations, tanks and sophisticated hardware go on display to remind the world of Russia’s lasting power. Celebrating what is known locally as the “Great Patriotic War” is used to stir nationalism and pay homage to the 24 million lives lost to fend off Hitler.

Rehearsals on the streets in front of the Kremlin in recent days hint at the spectacle next week. Show stoppers include an intercontinental ballistic missile and 11,000 marching forces. Fighter jets will fly above in a Z formation, the symbol of the invasion of Ukraine.

The Kremlin does not have much to celebrate, however. President Vladimir Putin has failed at his aim to take over Ukraine, a country he wrongly assumed would be a walkover. Tactical mistakes led to catastrophic Russian losses that the United Kingdom estimates at 15,000 over just two months.

----

Al Jazeera sought answers from three defence experts who focus on the Russian military and security.

‘Putin’s proven himself quite capable of twisting truths’

–Margarita Konaev, research fellow at Georgetown’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology

Konaev expects that to save face, Putin will try to distract from the reality of the war and double down on the narrative that has worked thus far: a call to nationalism and the argument that this is a war forced on the Russians by NATO expansion and that Ukraine is not a real country. “He will insist that the US and NATO are willing to risk continued violence and economic downturn around the world just to humiliate Russia and limit its power in the international order,” she says.

“Since it is May 9, they will evoke the Great Patriotic War and portray this moment as another when the Russian people must be steadfast and heroic while under attack,” she says. “Putin’s proven himself quite capable of twisting truths and reorganising the narrative in a way that might seem logically unsound but resonates nonetheless. It’s not his first rodeo or Russia’s with propaganda.”

-----

‘A long way from winning militarily’

-Tracey German, professor of conflict and security at King’s College, London

German noted that there is a big difference between a military and a political victory. One can win on the battlefields but not politically. “And they’re a long way from winning militarily.”

For that reason, she believes, the Russians have made great fanfare domestically about “liberating” Mariupol, the strategic port that has been levelled by the worst carnage of the war. Putin’s rationale for invading was to free Ukrainians from a “genocidal” government and restore them to Mother Russia. For sure, controlling this strategic port would curtail Ukraine’s industrial and agricultural exports, and help Russia create a land bridge between the separatist regions and Crimea. It also scores a propaganda win. Another pretext for the war was to “de-Nazify” Ukraine, and the city’s defence has included the members of the far-right Azov battalion.

-----

A war of attrition that will last ‘as long as Putin is in place’

-Mathieu Boulege, senior research fellow at the Chatham House think tank in London

Boulege believes that, after initially receiving poor intelligence, Putin is finally cognisant that his forces are overstretched. He now knows that all in all, there is only so much his military can achieve. But he cannot be seen to be looking desperate.

“Putin will not admit defeat. The Kremlin will not compromise,” Boulege says. “Right before May 9 there will be a big moment for Putin to say, mission accomplished, this is my version of history. This is my legacy. It needs to be presented as a mission accomplished. Forget about taking over Kyiv. We’ve flattened Mariupol, we’ve liberated more parts of Donbas. Maybe they will announce a republic in Kherson [a city in the south that has been under Russian occupation since March].”

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 06, 2022, 07:41:03 pm
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1522509777053618176
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 06, 2022, 07:52:29 pm
The only real difference between the Nazi's and the Soviets were the uniforms.

The prime reason Germany invaded Russia because NO dictator wants competition,and Nazi Germany thought they could do it and win. And,in truth,they came close.
Patton wanted to just go ahead and fight the Soviets while we were already over there. He saw them for what they were--just a different flavor of totalitarian.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 07:55:00 pm
https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1522509777053618176

@Kamaji

BTW,does anyone know if ANY of this is actually being reported as news by the Russian News Services inside Russia?

I HAVE to believe it is being suppressed,or we would be hearing more about demonstrations and even riots in the streets of the big cities.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 06, 2022, 07:58:59 pm
@Hoodat

That's a photo from WW-1 or WW-2. Notice all the soldiers who are carrying rifles are carrying bolt-action rifles,and that some of the soldiers in this assault don't even have rifles. Soviet doctrine was to save money by sending in some soldiers on assaults who were unarmed,and let them take the arms and ammo from other soldiers who were killed in the assault.

If the Germans happened to shoot and kill an unarmed soldier instead of one carrying arms,that was good too,because it left an experienced soldier still armed and still on the assault.

The unarmed soldiers were replacements for those who were previously wounded or killed in action.
It actually looks like a scene out of Enemy at the Gates. Those who are armed are carrying Mosin-Nagants.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 08:01:00 pm
It actually looks like a scene out of Enemy at the Gates. Those who are armed are carrying Mosin-Nagants.

 

@Smokin Joe

I know. I have a Mosin-Nagant carbine I brought back from VN. Serial #200.

IIRC,the M-N were the standard issue Soviet infantry rifle in both WW's.

BTW,is that a good movie? I don't think I ever watched it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 06, 2022, 08:01:02 pm
Warship Moskva was Blind to Ukrainian Missile Attack, Analysis Shows

Sam LaGrone   •   May 5, 2022 6:19 PM   •   Updated: May 5, 2022 10:10 PM


The crew of RTS Moskva (121) was blind to and not ready for the Ukrainian missile attack that sank Russia’s Black Sea flagship, according to a new analysis of the April 13 strike reviewed by USNI News.

The review of images following the strike of the two Neptune anti-ship missiles from open-source naval analyst and retired Navy Capt. Chris Carlson told USNI News that the guided-missile cruiser did not have its radars activated and could not see the threat from the two weapons.

In the photo of Moskva after the strike, the radars “are in their normal stowed position,” Carlson told USNI News on Monday.

“If you look at the pictures of Moskva, when she’s just dancing around going from place to place, or she’s anchored as a showboat, those directors are all facing aft every time,” he said.  .  .

(https://news.usni.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Screen-Shot-2022-05-05-at-6.08.57-PM.png)
Analysis from Chris Carlson shows how the radars on the ship were in their stowed position in photos following the missile strike. Images used with permission

.  .  .  In particular, the radar system that would have directed Moskva’s OSA-M surface to air missiles to counter the Ukrainian missiles appears to not have been active with its emitters stowed, based on the photograph.

“If you’re not running it, your point defense [surface to air missiles] are not going to be playing,” Carlson said.

In addition, on Moskva, “you’ve got old stuff, which means it’s temperamental. It’s hard to maintain, and at-sea maintenance has not been a Russian strength.”  .   .

https://news.usni.org/2022/05/05/warship-moskva-was-blind-to-ukrainian-missile-attack-analysis-shows
By the same token, if you are running it, you are advertising your position. Is there a naval equivalent of a HARM type missile like those used against SAM sites in Vietnam? If not, why not?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 06, 2022, 08:02:33 pm
@Smokin Joe

I know. I have a Mosin-Nagant carbine I brought back from VN. Serial #200.

IIRC,the M-N were the standard issue Soviet infantry rifle in both WW's.
I have a 91-30 and a Finnish-made equivalent to the carbine dated in the late 30s. Solid rifles, and cheap when I bought them.

Enemy at the Gates: It's basically a sniper duel (Vasily Zaitsev) in the rubble of the Tractor Factory, but very watchable, and with enough background in it to give you a feel for what it was to be a Soviet grunt in that.

By contrast I was watching another movie last night (supposedly WWII) with plastic canteen caps, and all sorts of other temporal anomalies in their gear. You'd think Hollywierd would bother to do just a little research into kit of the era, but no. (There are enough militaria collectors out there that would love to be consultants on a movie and make sure they weren't using the wrong stuff). Hard to suspend disbelief and get into a show when they have the wrong stuff in their hands.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 08:04:04 pm
I have a 91-30 and a Finnish-made equivalent to the carbine dated in the late 30s. Solid rifles, and cheap when I bought them.

@Smokin Joe

The recoil of the 7.65 mm Soviet round in those things is monstrous with that stock design and the steel buttplate.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 06, 2022, 08:11:59 pm
@Smokin Joe

The recoil of the 7.65 mm Soviet round in those things is monstrous with that stock design and the steel buttplate.
Yes, and that's with the standard 147 grain ball round.
If someone sells you the yellow tip (187 grain aircraft machine gun round) it's even worse.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 08:20:33 pm
Yes, and that's with the standard 147 grain ball round.
If someone sells you the yellow tip (187 grain aircraft machine gun round) it's even worse.

@Smokin Joe

I have what is now a funny story to tell about my nagant. I had just came back from VN,and had a layover in DC before I could catch the next airplane home. So,being more than a little drunk,I decided to take a cab to downtown DC to look around.

So,there I am,as innocent of any wrong doing as a baby,standing on a corner in downtown DC in the early afternoon,holding the Soviet Rifle in one hand,and a 5th of Jim Beam in another. Not doing much of anything at all,just admiring all the traffic following rules,and looking at the round-eyed wimmins.

Soooo,up comes a DC cop and asks,"Can I see the rifle?",so I say "Sure!",and hand it to him and admire the way the first thing he did was pull the bolt back to see if it was loaded.

He asks me what I am doing,and I tell him the truth,"Admiring the orderly traffic and the women while waiting for my plane home."

He smiles,hands the rifle back to me,tells me,"Welcome Home!",and walks away.

It didn't even occur to me until I was home and sobered up the next day that I had probably been violating several DC laws,and that if I hadn't been in uniform I would have been in deep trouble.

Sure wouldn't want to see any returning soldier try that these days!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 06, 2022, 08:27:02 pm
@Smokin Joe

I have what is now a funny story to tell about my nagant. I had just came back from VN,and had a layover in DC before I could catch the next airplane home. So,being more than a little drunk,I decided to take a cab to downtown DC to look around.

So,there I am,as innocent of any wrong doing as a baby,standing on a corner in downtown DC in the early afternoon,holding the Soviet Rifle in one hand,and a 5th of Jim Beam in another. Not doing much of anything at all,just admiring all the traffic following rules,and looking at the round-eyed wimmins.

Soooo,up comes a DC cop and asks,"Can I see the rifle?",so I say "Sure!",and hand it to him and admire the way the first thing he did was pull the bolt back to see if it was loaded.

He asks me what I am doing,and I tell him the truth,"Admiring the orderly traffic and the women while waiting for my plane home."

He smiles,hands the rifle back to me,tells me,"Welcome Home!",and walks away.

It didn't even occur to me until I was home and sobered up the next day that I had probably been violating several DC laws,and that if I hadn't been in uniform I would have been in deep trouble.

Sure wouldn't want to see any returning soldier try that these days!
Nowadays they'd have called out the SWAT Team...and 4 or 5 news channels...

It was a different era, not to mention even getting on the plane today with that rifle.
You probably had a pile of modern day TSA violations on your person, even without it.

(Neither I nor a friend who is a plankowner in the original Seal Team 6 have ever been able to figure out why/how a small pair of nail clippers can be used as a deadly weapon...) :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 06, 2022, 08:37:25 pm
@Smokin Joe

I have what is now a funny story to tell about my nagant. I had just came back from VN,and had a layover in DC before I could catch the next airplane home. So,being more than a little drunk,I decided to take a cab to downtown DC to look around.

So,there I am,as innocent of any wrong doing as a baby,standing on a corner in downtown DC in the early afternoon,holding the Soviet Rifle in one hand,and a 5th of Jim Beam in another. Not doing much of anything at all,just admiring all the traffic following rules,and looking at the round-eyed wimmins.

Soooo,up comes a DC cop and asks,"Can I see the rifle?",so I say "Sure!",and hand it to him and admire the way the first thing he did was pull the bolt back to see if it was loaded.

He asks me what I am doing,and I tell him the truth,"Admiring the orderly traffic and the women while waiting for my plane home."

He smiles,hands the rifle back to me,tells me,"Welcome Home!",and walks away.

It didn't even occur to me until I was home and sobered up the next day that I had probably been violating several DC laws,and that if I hadn't been in uniform I would have been in deep trouble.

Sure wouldn't want to see any returning soldier try that these days!

Shite!  They kill children with BB guns!

But still... in downtown, D.C., @sneakypete ??
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 08:52:29 pm
Shite!  They kill children with BB guns!

But still... in downtown, D.C., @sneakypete ??

@DCPatriot

It was late 1969,and I hadn't been in America in almost 2 years at that point. It was almost like a foreign country to me. Hell,the last time I had been in America,I was only here about 8 months before volunteering for VN,so I honestly wasn't familiar with American city standards. And that 8 months was out of over 4 years in uniform. I was used to living in Asia and carrying anything I wanted anywhere I wanted to go and having nobody really think anything about it. I was used to carrying automatic weapons everywhere I went,and it honestly never occurred to me to think of an unloaded bolt action rifle being questionable in any way.

Nor did it occur to me that it would be illegal to be standing on a street corner and drinking whisky out of a bottle.

I was suffering from "culture shock".
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 06, 2022, 09:25:14 pm
Shite!  They kill children with BB guns!

But still... in downtown, D.C., @sneakypete ??
Washington ~50 years ago was a different place than it is now.
We used to go there on elementary school class trips.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 06, 2022, 10:46:36 pm
Keep seeing pics of dead soldiers in fields and streets of Ukraine. Caption usually reads, 'More Dead Russians'. They seem to be whole indicating that they were shot and not blown up.

But the question that comes to mind first is always, why do they still have clothing, boots, bullet proof vests, LBV, packs, and other sundry accessories? I would think all of these would be gone in hours.

I don't know what to believe, but many of the pictures look like staged propaganda to me.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 11:07:51 pm
Washington ~50 years ago was a different place than it is now.
We used to go there on elementary school class trips.

@Smokin Joe   @DCPatriot

All of America was a different place back then. Most people,even elected officials seemed to have some common sense back then.

BTW,I don't know how old you are,but don't believe everything you read about the hippies in the 60's. The old saying "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" was true. I hit San Francisco for the first time in 1966,wearing a Green Beret and army dress greens.

Even walking down Market Street I had not one minute of trouble with anyone. I did have some genuine hippies stop me and ask me questions about the VN War,but they were respectful,asked serious questions,and then offered me a place to stay with them for free while I was there. The "head hippie" was a really tall,skinny black guy and I not only ran into him again when I returned to the US in 68,but he remembered me and called me by name with a smile and a hug,and warned me to avoid the downtown area where the war protesters were rioting while I was in uniform. He didn't seem to like those people any better than I did. Stayed with him and his friends for a couple of days before coming back east. Never a minute of trouble with any of them.

It was easy to see what was really going on if you went to someplace like Market Street,and just watched what was going on. You would see expensive cars dropping off late teen girls and boys dressed like hippies,and they would hit the streets "playing the role" until mom or dad returned to pick them up later. THESE and the privileged college kids scared of getting drafted were the ones raising all the hell. The posers LOVED getting on the tv cameras,and the college punks were just afraid of the draft. Don't believe it? ALL the big war protests,especially by college kids on campuses stopped when the draft ended. That wasn't a coincidence.

Just like with any other crowd,it only takes a handful to give them all a bad name.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 06, 2022, 11:24:06 pm
Keep seeing pics of dead soldiers in fields and streets of Ukraine. Caption usually reads, 'More Dead Russians'. They seem to be whole indicating that they were shot and not blown up.

But the question that comes to mind first is always, why do they still have clothing, boots, bullet proof vests, LBV, packs, and other sundry accessories? I would think all of these would be gone in hours. [/b]

@240B

I don't know what to believe, but many of the pictures look like staged propaganda to me.

This simplest answer is usually the most accurate. They still have all their gear because they were just killed,and the winners of that battle just then showed up to take the photos and search the bodies. People have better things to do when the shooting is still going on than take photos and strip bodies.

 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 06, 2022, 11:36:10 pm
@Smokin Joe   @DCPatriot

All of America was a different place back then. Most people,even elected officials seemed to have some common sense back then.

BTW,I don't know how old you are,but don't believe everything you read about the hippies in the 60's. The old saying "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" was true. I hit San Francisco for the first time in 1966,wearing a Green Beret and army dress greens.

Even walking down Market Street I had not one minute of trouble with anyone. I did have some genuine hippies stop me and ask me questions about the VN War,but they were respectful,asked serious questions,and then offered me a place to stay with them for free while I was there. The "head hippie" was a really tall,skinny black guy and I not only ran into him again when I returned to the US in 68,but he remembered me and called me by name with a smile and a hug,and warned me to avoid the downtown area where the war protesters were rioting while I was in uniform. He didn't seem to like those people any better than I did. Stayed with him and his friends for a couple of days before coming back east. Never a minute of trouble with any of them.

It was easy to see what was really going on if you went to someplace like Market Street,and just watched what was going on. You would see expensive cars dropping off late teen girls and boys dressed like hippies,and they would hit the streets "playing the role" until mom or dad returned to pick them up later. THESE and the privileged college kids scared of getting drafted were the ones raising all the hell. The posers LOVED getting on the tv cameras,and the college punks were just afraid of the draft. Don't believe it? ALL the big war protests,especially by college kids on campuses stopped when the draft ended. That wasn't a coincidence.

Just like with any other crowd,it only takes a handful to give them all a bad name.
DC got ugly with the race riots in the 60s, and we were close enough that agitators were still causing trouble in High Schools as late as the early '70s. The integration issue was still an issue for the folks who told us we had to integrate our schools, and they were still burning buses in Boston when I graduated High School after I'd been going to integrated schools since the 6th grade. It was a lesson in Liberal hypocrisy.

While I was at college (mid to late 70s) there were plenty of 'professional students' who had carefully changed their majors or managed to miss a required course or two to graduate, and some had been going to college to avoid the draft for seven or eight years, partying and not getting a degree, usually sociology, psych, or art majors. We knew them for what they were, 'rich enough' kids whose tuition was their way to not get drafted. Some of them played the hippy shtick, mainly to 'be cool' and get laid, but they were an unimpressive lot who only fooled those easily fooled.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 07, 2022, 02:47:37 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aGzOBbz_460s.jpg)
Russian officers shooting their own soldiers. Russian soldiers shooting their own sergeants and officers.
Not new, depending on how bad it is. This was called 'fragging your own bunker' (a Vietnam term still used today) when I was in. Sounds like the Russian soldiers who are 'conscripted' (forced to be there), and don't believe in Putin or the War, are taking matters into their own hands. This happened in Vietnam more than once.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 07, 2022, 04:16:45 am
Russian reservists being contacted

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PcFepWMVDo)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2022, 01:08:05 pm
 May 6, 2022 8:59pm EDT
Biden announces additional $150 million in military aid to Ukraine
President Biden has urged Congress to approve his $33 billion request for additional assistance

By Adam Sabes , Jennifer Griffin | Fox News

The United States will send an additional $150 million security assistance package to Ukraine, including "tailored" equipment that will help the country defend itself against Russian forces.

Equipment being sent to Ukraine includes 25,000 155mm artillery rounds, 3 AN/TPQ-36 counter-artillery radars, electronic jamming equipment, field equipment, and spare parts, according to Pentagon spokesman John Kirby.

Kirby said on Friday that the United States will continue providing Ukraine with the necessary assistance to defend itself.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/biden-announces-military-aid-ukraine
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 07, 2022, 03:49:45 pm
https://twitter.com/WARUKRAINE2022/status/1522493892721004546

In case anyone is buying the BS about Russia 'liberating' the 'free independent' State of Donetsk.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 07, 2022, 06:38:35 pm
Russian tank ace, 25, crowned world champion in international war games contest is killed after Putin sends him into real war in Ukraine

By WILL STEWART FOR MAIL ONLINE
7 May 2022

A 'hero' Russian world champion in an international tank warfare competition was killed when he was sent by Vladimir Putin into a real battle in Ukraine.

Bato Basanov, 25, from Buryatia, was in a record-breaking tank biathlon team that performed last year in war games in front of defence minister Sergei Shoigu and chief of the army general staff Valery Gerasimov.

But his conflict ended in death when his tank was hit in Ukraine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10792055/Russian-tank-ace-25-crowned-world-champion-war-games-killed-Putin-sends-real-war.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 07, 2022, 06:40:16 pm
Putin loses his 38th colonel in Ukraine war as artillery regiment commander is buried with full military honours

By WALTER FINCH and WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
7 May 2022

Vladimir Putin has suffered the loss of his 38th colonel in the war in Ukraine as the Russian top brass toll worsens.

Lieutenant Colonel Fyodor Evgenievich Solovyov, 44, died in the Donbas, according to reports in his homeland.

Solovyov was commander of the howitzer self-propelled artillery regiment of the 127 motorised rifle division.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10792349/Putin-loses-38th-colonel-Ukraine-artillery-regiment-commander-buried-military-honours.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 07, 2022, 06:54:40 pm
And all for what?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 07, 2022, 07:15:33 pm
Russia will stay in southern Ukraine 'FOREVER', senior Kremlin figure claims while touring Kherson

By RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE
6 May 2022

Russia will remain in southern Ukraine 'forever', a senior Russian politician has claimed during a visit to the Moscow-controlled city of Kherson.

Andrey Turchak, a senior member of the ruling United Russia party, warned on Friday there will be 'no return to the past' for Ukrainians.

He said that Russians and Ukrainians will 'live together' in Kherson, the first major city to fall to Russian forces since the start of Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10790015/Russia-stay-southern-Ukraine-FOREVER-senior-Kremlin-figure-claims-touring-Kherson.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 07, 2022, 07:32:11 pm
 Russians to dress Ukrainian POWs in uniforms for Mariupol parade: official
By Snejana Farberov   
May 5, 2022 4:00pm

Russian forces are planning to dress up thousands of Ukrainian prisoners of war in military uniforms during next week’s Victory Day parade in Mariupol, a Ukrainian official claimed Thursday.

Petro Andryushchenko, an aide to the mayor of the besieged port city, wrote on his Telegram channel that officials have learned that nearly 2,000 Ukrainians are being housed in three filtration camps in the hamlet of Bezimenne, which he likened to “ghettos.”   

“These men are held there and they are told that they will be made to wear the Ukrainian [military] uniform and to participate in a so-called ‘war prisoners parade’ in Mariupol because they [the Russians] lack actual prisoners of war,” the adviser said on a national newscast, Ukrainian media reported.

“It will be a grotesque crowd scene for another propaganda image,” he added.

more
https://nypost.com/2022/05/05/russians-to-dress-ukrainians-in-uniforms-for-mariupol-parade/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 07, 2022, 08:36:49 pm
Russian forces are planning to dress up thousands of Ukrainian prisoners of war in military uniforms during next week’s Victory Day parade in Mariupol, a Ukrainian official claimed Thursday.

If Ukraine tried something like this, a few here would be calling it a "war crime".  But not if Russia does it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 07, 2022, 10:16:14 pm
Just a friendly reminder ......

"Do you know who the greatest propagator of disinformation in the history of the world is? The US government"   Powerful statement by Rand Paul, and completely true" (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/emeriticus/status/1523045916147560453
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 01:07:34 am
Intense shelling as troops battle to regain Kharkiv region

Sophie Williams - BBC, Lviv  |  7 hours ago

Intense fighting is continuing in the Kharkiv region of Ukraine as troops attempt to regain control of the area from the Russians.


It comes after Ukraine's armed forces claimed on Saturday that they had taken five villages north-east of the country's second largest city.

Analysts say the Ukrainian operation is developing into a successful counter-offensive.

Kharkiv has been the focus of intense shelling since the February invasion.

The governor of Kharkiv region said on Saturday that Russian troops continue "to fire on civilians in Kharkiv region".

Oleh Synyehubov on Telegram reminded people to "not go out unnecessarily" and told people not to ignore the air raid sirens.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61364217
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 08, 2022, 11:07:20 am
60 feared dead after Russia bombs school ‘where whole village was hiding’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-putin-latest-news-weapons-nuclear-b2074006.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-russia-war-putin-latest-news-weapons-nuclear-b2074006.html)

Quote
The school sheltering the ‘whole village’ was struck by Russian forces on Saturday

Around 60 people are feared dead in the Russian shelling of a school in the village of Bilohorivka in the Luhansk region, governor Serhiy Haidai said on Sunday.

He said that two people were confirmed dead while 30 others were rescued from the debris of the school, which was sheltering nearly 90 people at the time it was struck.

Local media reported that the two dead were children, though this has not been confirmed by officials.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 08, 2022, 12:45:37 pm
Senior Russian lawmaker accuses U.S. of being directly involved in Ukraine war

 By Joseph Clark - The Washington Times - Saturday, May 7, 2022

The speaker of Russia’s State Duma, Vyacheslav Volodin, on Saturday accused the U.S. of being directly involved in military operations against Russia in Ukraine.

Mr. Volodin’s comments add to growing concern of a looming direct conflict between the U.S. and Russia following reports that the U.S. shared operational intelligence with Kyiv that Ukrainian forces used to kill Russian generals and sink Russia’s Black Sea flagship.

“Washington is essentially coordinating and developing military operations, thereby directly participating in military actions against our country,” Mr. Volodin wrote on his Telegram channel, according to Reuters.

more
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/may/7/senior-russian-lawmaker-accuses-us-being-directly-/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 08, 2022, 12:56:22 pm
Troubling Questions About How Many of Our Weapons Are Going to Ukraine and If They're Getting to Frontlines
By Nick Arama | May 07, 2022 7:30 PM ET


Congress passed a bill back in March allocating $13.6 billion in aid for Ukraine. Then, on April 28, Joe Biden asked for $33 billion more. Also on April 28, the Senate passed Lend-Lease legislation regarding weapons for Ukraine — which means that Biden can send them virtually anything except nuclear weapons without having to come back to the Congress for approval. Virtually all the Congressional Republicans went along with that, except for ten of them. Why would you give Joe Biden more power when he’s already shown how horrible he is at everything?

I had some questions at the time. Where does that leave us with our supplies if Biden has the authority to give them weapons from our stocks? And how are we ensuring the aid is getting where it’s supposed to be going?

Now, some U.S. officials are expressing concern about our stockpiles being depleted, with us giving away so many weapons.

https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1522930257778651139

more
https://twitter.com/ByronYork/status/1522930257778651139
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 01:27:13 pm
Russia will remain in southern Ukraine 'forever', a senior Russian politician has claimed during a visit to the Moscow-controlled city of Kherson.

Andrey Turchak, a senior member of the ruling United Russia party, warned on Friday there will be 'no return to the past' for Ukrainians.

Finally, a Russian political leader tells the truth.  So much for all that BS about Putin "liberating" the free 'independent' [sic] states of Donetsk and Luhansk and that nonsense about this being all about Ukraine joining NATO.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 01:29:40 pm
Troubling Questions About How Many of Our Weapons Are Going to Ukraine and If They're Getting to Frontlines
By Nick Arama | May 07, 2022 7:30 PM ET


Congress passed a bill back in March allocating $13.6 billion in aid for Ukraine. Then, on April 28, Joe Biden asked for $33 billion more.

None of the original $13.6 billion was earmarked for weapons for Ukraine.  Not a dime.  I suspect you won't find much difference in the new $33 billion package.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 08, 2022, 04:41:05 pm
Canada’s Trudeau Makes Surprise Visit to War-Torn Irpin, Ukraine

IRPIN, Ukraine (AP) – Canada’s Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has made a surprise visit to Ukraine amid Russia’s war on the country.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/08/canadas-trudeau-makes-surprise-visit-war-torn-irpin-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 04:51:08 pm
First lady Jill Biden makes surprise visit to war-torn Ukraine

Peter Aitken. |  May 8, 2022 11:12am EDT


First Lady Jill Biden has visited Ukraine on Mother’s Day, marking a rare solo trip for the spouse of a sitting president into an active war zone. 

Biden crossed the border from Slovakia on Sunday after visiting a processing center to meet with refugees, The Washington Post reported. She spoke with Ukrainian First Lady Olena Zelenska, who has not appeared in public since the start of the Russian invasion

https://www.foxnews.com/world/jill-biden-visit-ukraine-tour-eastern-europe



Meanwhile, Joe eats pudding in Delaware.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 08, 2022, 05:31:21 pm
Senior Russian lawmaker accuses U.S. of being directly involved in Ukraine war

 By Joseph Clark - The Washington Times - Saturday, May 7, 2022

The speaker of Russia’s State Duma, Vyacheslav Volodin, on Saturday accused the U.S. of being directly involved in military operations against Russia in Ukraine.

Mr. Volodin’s comments add to growing concern of a looming direct conflict between the U.S. and Russia following reports that the U.S. shared operational intelligence with Kyiv that Ukrainian forces used to kill Russian generals and sink Russia’s Black Sea flagship.

“Washington is essentially coordinating and developing military operations, thereby directly participating in military actions against our country,” Mr. Volodin wrote on his Telegram channel, according to Reuters.

more
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2022/may/7/senior-russian-lawmaker-accuses-us-being-directly-/

It would be nice if our "intelligence" services could keep their mouths shut.

Overall, I don't think it will matter because Russia has destroyed itself with this war. They are not only losing a lot of customers for their oil and gas but are probably going to lose defense equipment sales as well. They really don't have any other industries since the money from oil and gas went to oligarchs who moved a lot of it out of the country instead of keeping the returns in the country and investing it in new manufacturing business. Russia will be poorer after they lose this war.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 08, 2022, 05:46:04 pm
Finally, a Russian political leader tells the truth.  So much for all that BS about Putin "liberating" the free 'independent' [sic] states of Donetsk and Luhansk and that nonsense about this being all about Ukraine joining NATO.

This has to be among the biggest of the many irony's of this war. Now because of Putin's invasion Ukraine will end up being NATO compliant in their weaponry as they use up their old equipment and begin replacing it with the equipment that is being supplied by the USA and other NATO countries. Ukraine may not be formally a member of NATO, but they will have NATO's equipment.

Also, Putin hoped to destroy NATO by getting energy dependent countries like Germany to back off supporting Ukraine. Instead the NATO members are stronger in their resolve to help Ukraine defeat Russia as they are finding other sources for their oil and gas. Putin not only made NATO stronger he is losing some of Russia's biggest customers for their oil and gas.

Russia will become poorer because of this war and Ukraine will become richer because the west will help Ukraine rebuild.

The best thing Russia could do at this point is declare victory and remove all Russia troops from all of Ukraine. The longer they stay the weaker they become.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 08, 2022, 05:49:28 pm
First lady Jill Biden makes surprise visit to war-torn Ukraine

Peter Aitken. |  May 8, 2022 11:12am EDT


First Lady Jill Biden has visited Ukraine on Mother’s Day, marking a rare solo trip for the spouse of a sitting president into an active war zone.

Biden crossed the border from Slovakia on Sunday after visiting a processing center to meet with refugees, The Washington Post reported. She spoke with Ukrainian First Lady Olena Zelenska, who has not appeared in public since the start of the Russian invasion

https://www.foxnews.com/world/jill-biden-visit-ukraine-tour-eastern-europe



Meanwhile, Joe eats pudding in Delaware.

You know the tide has turned when instead of offering a ride out of town to Zelenskyy everyone wants to come visit him, or his wife, for a photo op.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 06:08:00 pm
https://twitter.com/MFA_Ukraine/status/1523314657477414912
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 06:48:12 pm
60 feared dead under rubble after Russian bomb hits school in Luhansk

About 90 people were sheltering in the building when the bomb struck, causing a fire to engulf it, the governor of the Luhansk region says.

Sunday 8 May 2022 15:24, UK

Sixty people are feared dead under rubble after a Russian bomb hit a school in eastern Ukraine.


About 90 people were sheltering in the building when the bomb struck, causing a fire to engulf it on Saturday, the governor of the Luhansk region said.

Two people have been confirmed dead and 60 others are "likely to have died under the rubble", Serhiy Gaidai wrote on the Telegram messaging app.

Thirty people have been rescued, seven of whom were injured, he added.

(https://e3.365dm.com/22/05/2048x1152/skynews-luhansk-ukraine-school_5764595.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20220508095823)
Some 60 people are trapped under the rubble, Ukraine says. Pic: Luhansk State Emergency Service

Foreign Secretary Liz Truss responded to the attack saying she was "horrified" by the incident which resulted "in the deaths of innocent people sheltering from Russian bombardment".  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-60-feared-dead-under-rubble-after-russian-bomb-hits-school-in-luhansk-12608304



Russian troops doing what Russian troops do.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 08, 2022, 06:52:37 pm
https://twitter.com/MFA_Ukraine/status/1523314657477414912

The whole denazification excuse was unbelievable from the beginning.

Anyone paying attention has to recognize Russia is the evil force at work.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 08, 2022, 06:53:16 pm
This has to be among the biggest of the many irony's of this war. Now because of Putin's invasion Ukraine will end up being NATO compliant in their weaponry as they use up their old equipment and begin replacing it with the equipment that is being supplied by the USA and other NATO countries. Ukraine may not be formally a member of NATO, but they will have NATO's equipment.

Also, Putin hoped to destroy NATO by getting energy dependent countries like Germany to back off supporting Ukraine. Instead the NATO members are stronger in their resolve to help Ukraine defeat Russia as they are finding other sources for their oil and gas. Putin not only made NATO stronger he is losing some of Russia's biggest customers for their oil and gas.

Russia will become poorer because of this war and Ukraine will become richer because the west will help Ukraine rebuild.

The best thing Russia could do at this point is declare victory and remove all Russia troops from all of Ukraine. The longer they stay the weaker they become.

To me the greatest irony is the fact that Putin has loudly cried for years that he cannot tolerate a NATO country on his border, and when this is done he'll likely have two.  Finland will get in, and so will Ukraine when Russia loses the war.  This is worse than a disaster for Russia, it's a blunder.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 08, 2022, 07:35:05 pm
The whole denazification excuse was unbelievable from the beginning.

Anyone paying attention has to recognize Russia is the evil force at work.
Especially considering the Nazis were not known for being kind to Eastern Europeans in general, and Jews in particular. The Ukrainians and the Soviets have a past as well, especially considering the Holodomor, and I really think neither ideology would be particularly welcome. While previous regimes may not have been as free as we consider ourselves to be, the rejection of either dogma would be the most likely course.

Putin just used the 'denazification' thing to drum up the former glory of the "Great Patriotic War" in which the Soviets defeated the Nazis with tremendous materiel and military help from America and the Allies (including tying up the Germans on the western front).
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 08, 2022, 07:42:45 pm
Especially considering the Nazis were not known for being kind to Eastern Europeans in general, and Jews in particular. The Ukrainians and the Soviets have a past as well, especially considering the Holodomor, and I really think neither ideology would be particularly welcome. While previous regimes may not have been as free as we consider ourselves to be, the rejection of either dogma would be the most likely course.

Putin just used the 'denazification' thing to drum up the former glory of the "Great Patriotic War" in which the Soviets defeated the Nazis with tremendous materiel and military help from America and the Allies (including tying up the Germans on the western front).

That's as obvious as a boil on one's face.  You are correct, Russians refer to WW2 as the Great Patriotic War.  That's a major league denial of the fact that the whole damned world was against Hitler, not just poor li'l Russia. 

Boiled down, it allows them to freeze and define the enemy as they see fit.  Alinsky years and years before Alinsky.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 08, 2022, 07:47:47 pm
The whole denazification excuse was unbelievable from the beginning.

Anyone paying attention has to recognize Russia is the evil force at work.

It's a matter of degree.  What compels a person to remain and shelter-in-place?  Finances?  Their own personal neutrality in the matter?

The Mariupol citizenry had MORE than enough warning to GTFO!  And "...where to?" won't play after the first waves back in January.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 08, 2022, 07:51:07 pm
It's a matter of degree.  What compels a person to remain and shelter-in-place?  Finances?  Their own personal neutrality in the matter?

The Mariupol citizenry had MORE than enough warning to GTFO!  And "...where to?" won't play after the first waves back in January.
I seem to recall something about shelling refugees trying to leave (the Russians doing the shelling) and roads that had been mined.
There is propaganda on both sides, and hope that Ukrainian forces might reach them before the Russians got into town may have kept many there past the time when they could leave with any modicum of safety, even as noncombatant refugees. Even as the shells rain in, normalcy bias is hard to overcome.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 07:52:48 pm
'If this is true, then I am also a Nazi'

Carrie Davies - BBC, Uman  |  14 hours ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7EB1/production/_124633423_olga.jpg)
Olga was dug out of a Nazi grave pit

The last time war came to Uman, the city was occupied by the Nazis.

Now 83, Olga was only two years old when the soldiers arrived in her village.

We are sitting around a table in a Jewish community centre in Uman, a city slightly west of the centre of Ukraine. The walls of the centre are covered in smiling photos of family gatherings and a box of matzah stapled to a display of a shabbat meal.

Olga watches the tea in her cup gradually turn a bitter dark brown. She doesn't touch the biscuits on the table. She lives just a few miles from where she was brought up.

"We were taken 5km [three miles] to a field. I was with my mum and my grannie," she tells us. "When we came to the field ditches were already dug. They began to shoot. We were surrounded by the dogs, by policemen, to stop anyone from running away.

"People started to fall into the ditch. Alive, dead, wounded. They started in the morning and it went on until midday. Then they sprinkled a little earth and left.

"Two boys, aged six and seven, survived. They started to look for other survivors. They dug me out with their hands."

Olga survived, kept hidden by a family until the war ended.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/115C9/production/_124631117_dmytro.png)
Dmytro's family lived in a forest to escape the Nazi

She's one of three Holocaust survivors at the table. The other stories are similarly shocking. Dmytro's family lived in a forest to escape the Nazis. Yevhen remembers narrowly escaping from a basement when Nazi soldiers attempted to gas him with exhaust fumes. Only his mother and he survived the war.

Russian President Vladimir Putin's repeated accusations that Ukraine needs to be de-Nazified feel particularly insulting to a group that lived through the occupation.

"I have many relatives in Russia. They start telling me that we have a lot of Nazis," says Dmytro. "I tell them, if this is true, then I am also a Nazi. You can kill me too."

"Putin has no business here," says Olga. "The way he mocks peaceful people is simply unimaginable."  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61361827
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 08, 2022, 07:55:49 pm
In WWII, the Russian Army would release the main force followed by 'Kill Squads'. The killer squads would follow the main assault and shoot any Russian soldiers who refused to charge forward, even if they were unarmed. No doubt, since Putin very clearly thinks he is back in time fighting the Nazis again, the Russian Army is doing the same today in Ukraine.

I'm not sure how Russia can call their troops motivated and brave if they will be shot dead for not charging straight into the meatgrinder. It is little wonder that Russian troop defections are out of control.

When Russian soldiers ask, 'Why am I doing this?' 'What am I dying for?' There is no answer.

To fight Nazis? Really? We attacked them. They did not attack us. Am I to die for Putin's delusional dreams?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 07:59:17 pm
The Mariupol citizenry had MORE than enough warning to GTFO!

Yeah, right.  Putin was up front about how his soldiers were going to rape Ukrainian women and execute civilians in the streets, bomb schools and hospitals, and completely level Mariupol like the Germans did to the Czech village of Lidice after Heydrich was assassinated.

Oh wait, he didn't.  Putin said that he was coming on a humanitarian mission to bring peace and freedom to the people of Donetsk.

You are essentially blaming the rape victim here for not running away faster from her rapist.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 08, 2022, 08:02:18 pm
the Russian Army is doing the same today in Ukraine.

I'm not sure how Russia can call their troops motivated and brave if they will be shot dead for not charging straight into the meatgrinder. It is little wonder that Russian troop defections are out of control.


Intercepted Russian communications

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6YiVCoikxs)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 08, 2022, 08:06:12 pm
Yeah, right.  Putin was up front about how his soldiers were going to rape Ukrainian women and execute civilians in the streets, bomb schools and hospitals, and completely level Mariupol like the Germans did to the Czech village of Lidice after Heydrich was assassinated.

Oh wait, he didn't.  Putin said that he was coming on a humanitarian mission to bring peace and freedom to the people of Donetsk.

You are essentially blaming the rape victim here for not running away faster from her rapist.

Not at all!  Just asking questions.    :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 08, 2022, 09:11:04 pm
That's as obvious as a boil on one's face.  You are correct, Russians refer to WW2 as the Great Patriotic War.  That's a major league denial of the fact that the whole damned world was against Hitler, not just poor li'l Russia. 

Ukraine was actually split in its support of nazi Germany in WW2. @Cyber Liberty 

The Western,  Ukrainan-speaking part of the country supported nazi Germany, considered them liberators and fought along side them, including in the the murder of Ukrainian Jews.    The Eastern, Russian-speaking part of the couuntry fought with the Russian forces and considered them liberators.

Sound familiar?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 08, 2022, 09:24:59 pm

The Mariupol citizenry had MORE than enough warning to GTFO!  And "...where to?" won't play after the first waves back in January.

Contrary to the wildly popular and US Ministry of Truth approved propagnda, this conflict did not begin begin in February. @DCPatriot

The Russian-speaking, Russian passport-holding citizenry of Mariupol have been greeting the Russian army as liberators since WW2.

If these citizens are being killed at will, someone needs to check the origins of the weapons used before assuming responsibility.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 08, 2022, 09:33:37 pm
It would be nice if our "intelligence" services could keep their mouths shut.

But silence doesn't goad Russia into a wider war or open a false flag chemical attack window for the US to use.   

Remember, removing Putin is our goal and we are prepared to fight to the last Ukrainian --- and if need be, the last American ---- to make this happen.

There's no going back now.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 08, 2022, 09:40:54 pm
Contrary to the wildly popular and US Ministry of Truth approved propagnda, this conflict did not begin begin in February. @DCPatriot

The Russian-speaking, Russian passport-holding citizenry of Mariupol have been greeting the Russian army as liberators since WW2.

If these citizens are being killed at will, someone needs to check the origins of the weapons used before assuming responsibility.

Thanks, @Right_in_Virginia

Another great point to consider.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 08, 2022, 10:10:38 pm
Ukraine was actually split in its support of nazi Germany in WW2. @Cyber Liberty 

The Western,  Ukrainan-speaking part of the country supported nazi Germany, considered them liberators and fought along side them, including in the the murder of Ukrainian Jews.    The Eastern, Russian-speaking part of the couuntry fought with the Russian forces and considered them liberators.

Sound familiar?

You conveniently leave out the fact that Russia was allied with Germany's NAZIs from 1939 to 1941 before they had their falling out during WWII... In addition, since Russia signed a non-aggression pact with Germany in 1939 it opened the door for Germany to invade Poland and so began WWII.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 08, 2022, 10:13:01 pm
That's as obvious as a boil on one's face.  You are correct, Russians refer to WW2 as the Great Patriotic War.  That's a major league denial of the fact that the whole damned world was against Hitler, not just poor li'l Russia. 

Boiled down, it allows them to freeze and define the enemy as they see fit.  Alinsky years and years before Alinsky.

@Cyber Liberty

And they will NEVER admit they couldn't have done it without the US shipping convoys that sailed to Russia carrying everything from flashlight batteries to field howitzers and,2-1/2 ton trucks,rifle and pistol ammunition,gasoline,etc,etc,etc.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 08, 2022, 10:15:30 pm
You conveniently leave out the fact that Russia was allied with Germany's NAZIs from 1939 to 1941 before they had their falling out during WWII... In addition, since Russia signed a non-aggression pact with Germany in 1939 it opened the door for Germany to invade Poland and so began WWII.

How does this affect Ukraine's split in WW2 that continues to this day?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 08, 2022, 11:27:10 pm
 US diplomats arrive Kyiv ahead of resumption of embassy operations
by Mychael Schnell - 05/08/22 3:27 PM ET

U.S. diplomats are beginning to arrive in Kyiv as America prepares to restart embassy operations in the Ukrainian capital city for the first time since Russia began its invasion.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken told Ukrainian Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba during a phone call on Sunday that a small group of diplomats, in addition to State Department security, took a trip to the embassy in Kyiv to prepare for its resumption of operations.

“The Secretary informed Foreign Minister Kuleba that our Charge d’Affaires Kristina Kvien and a small group of diplomats, accompanied by State Department security, traveled to Kyiv to conduct diplomatic engagement in advance of the planned resumption of Embassy Kyiv operations, as the Secretary pledged to President Zelenskyy they would during his most recent visit to Kyiv,” State Department spokesperson Ned Price wrote in a readout of the call.

The U.S. Embassy in Kyiv announced on Twitter Sunday that Kvien had arrived in Kyiv.

“Just arrived in Kyiv! Delighted to be back on Victory in Europe Day. Slava Ukraini! We #standwithUkraine” the tweet from the embassy reads.

The return of diplomats to the embassy in Ukraine’s capital city comes after the U.S. suspended embassy operations in Ukraine in February as Russia’s invasion was just beginning. The U.S. had initially moved operations from Kyiv to the western city of Lviv before relocating to Poland.

more
https://thehill.com/policy/international/3481170-us-diplomats-arrive-kyiv-ahead-of-resumption-of-embassy-operations/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 08, 2022, 11:29:29 pm
You know the tide has turned when instead of offering a ride out of town to Zelenskyy everyone wants to come visit him, or his wife, for a photo op.
Between U2 and Jill, who is more annoying, though?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 08, 2022, 11:33:39 pm
 Bono performs in Kyiv subway at Zelensky’s invitation
by Brad Dress - 05/08/22 5:58 PM ET

U2 bandmates Bono and The Edge put on a surprise performance inside a Kyiv subway on Sunday at the invitation of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, in a show of solidarity as Russia war grinds into its third month.

Videos uploaded to Youtube and Twitter show Bono and Edge performing under pink neon lights inside a Kyiv subway station, playing hits like “With or Without You” and “Sunday Bloody Sunday.”

The rock legends also performed a rendition of the classic song “Stand by Me,” changing the words to “Stand by Ukraine” as they sang along with a group of Ukrainian soldiers.

Bono also gave brief remarks, praising Ukrainians for fighting and defending their country against Russian forces.

“The people of Ukraine are not just fighting for your own freedom, you’re fighting for all of us,” Bono told the crowd, according to a video recorded by RTE News.

U2 tweeted on Sunday that Bono and Edge traveled to Ukraine for the performance at the request of Zelensky.

more
https://thehill.com/policy/international/3481167-bono-performs-in-kyiv-subway-at-zelenskys-invitation/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 09, 2022, 12:10:42 am
Ukraine was actually split in its support of nazi Germany in WW2. @Cyber Liberty 

The Western,  Ukrainan-speaking part of the country supported nazi Germany, considered them liberators and fought along side them, including in the the murder of Ukrainian Jews.    The Eastern, Russian-speaking part of the couuntry fought with the Russian forces and considered them liberators.

Sound familiar?

Sounds like complete bullshit to me.  To insinuate that Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians were nazis while Russian-speaking Ukrainians were patriots to Mother Russia is a total fabrication with no basis in truth.  The fact is that all of Ukraine hated Soviet Russia due to the decade-long persecution that Stalin had enacted on them.  Yes, there were Ukrainians that took on the Wehrmacht uniform.  Yes, there were Ukrainians that joined the Einsatzgruppen - both Ukrainian-speaking and Russian-speaking.  But when it came to the Jews, Stalin killed more Ukrainian Jews than did Hitler.

And none of this has a damn thing to do with Russia's invasion, depopulation, and planned annexation of a sovereign nation.  This new (and false) historical invention of a dividing line between right and wrong drawn up during WWII as a new justification excusing Putin's actions is beyond pathetic.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 09, 2022, 12:19:11 am
Sounds like complete bullshit to me.  To insinuate that Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians were nazis while Russian-speaking Ukrainians were patriots to Mother Russia is a total fabrication with no basis in truth.  The fact is that all of Ukraine hated Soviet Russia due to the decade-long persecution that Stalin had enacted on them.  Yes, there were Ukrainians that took on the Wehrmacht uniform.  Yes, there were Ukrainians that joined the Einsatzgruppen - both Ukrainian-speaking and Russian-speaking.  But when it came to the Jews, Stalin killed more Ukrainian Jews than did Hitler.

And none of this has a damn thing to do with Russia's invasion, depopulation, and planned annexation of a sovereign nation.  This new (and false) historical invention of a dividing line between right and wrong drawn up during WWII as a new justification excusing Putin's actions is beyond pathetic.

@Hoodat

The "Surrender Monkey/Better Red than Dead Crowd" will pull all sorts of stuff out of their butts because they are terrified of the Russians,and looking for any excuse they can find or make up to support them and excuse their aggression because that is not as embarrassing as coming right out and begging,"PLEASE don't hurt me,Master Putin!"
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 09, 2022, 12:20:38 am
Between U2 and Jill, who is more annoying, though?

Jill.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 09, 2022, 12:22:46 am
Jill.

@Hoodat

That one is easy. Jill.

U-2 has actual musical talent,and the only "talent" Jill has is "blowing the old guy".
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 09, 2022, 12:22:48 am
Jill.

It's "Dr. Jill" to you, buddy!    :laugh:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 09, 2022, 12:54:56 am
Ukraine troops retreat from Popasna, Luhansk governor confirms

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/chechnyas-kadyrov-says-his-soldiers-control-popasna-ukraine-disagrees-2022-05-08/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/chechnyas-kadyrov-says-his-soldiers-control-popasna-ukraine-disagrees-2022-05-08/)

Quote
Ukrainian troops retreated from the eastern Ukrainian city of Popasna, the governor of Luhansk region said on Sunday, confirming previous reports that it had been taken.

The head of Russia's republic of Chechnya, Ramzan Kadyrov, had said on Sunday his troops had taken control of most of Popasna.

Luhansk Governor Serhiy Gaidai told Ukraine television that Ukrainian troops had retreated to take up more fortified positions, adding: "Everything was destroyed there."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 09, 2022, 12:57:03 am
If Putin and company have any sense,they will declare this to be a "great victory for Holy Mother Russia",and announce they are pulling their combat troops back to Russia "Now that our goal has been reached".

Total Horse Hillary,but any excuse is a good excuse when you are desperate.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 09, 2022, 01:04:51 am
Is Ukraine conducting a sabotage campaign inside Russia?

https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/is-ukraine-conducting-a-sabotage-campaign-inside-russia-3e859999-e689-4d90-9dfc-67cbbc356eb6 (https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/is-ukraine-conducting-a-sabotage-campaign-inside-russia-3e859999-e689-4d90-9dfc-67cbbc356eb6)

Quote
A deadly fire at an aerospace research institute in Tver, northwest of Moscow. Another blaze at a munitions factory in Perm, more than 1,100 kilometers (680 miles) to the east. And fires in two separate oil depots in Bryansk, near Belarus.

Coincidences, or a sign that Ukrainians or their supporters are mounting a campaign of sabotage inside Russia to punish Moscow for invading their country?

Since the blaze at the Central Research Institute of the Aerospace Defense Forces in Tver on April 21, which killed at least 17 people, social media has leapt on every report of a fire somewhere in Russia -- especially at a sensitive location -- as a sign that the country is under covert attack.

No one is claiming responsibility, but analysts say at least some of the incidents, particularly those in Bryansk, point to a possible effort by Kyiv to bring the war to their invaders.

In a post on Telegram, Mykhaylo Podolyak, a senior advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, called the fires "divine intervention."

"Large fuel depots periodically burn... for different reasons," he wrote. "Karma is a cruel thing."

- 'We don't deny' -

In a massive country such as Russia, a fire at a remote factory or building would normally not be particularly eyebrow-raising.

More at link.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 09, 2022, 01:24:47 am
Is Ukraine conducting a sabotage campaign inside Russia?

https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/is-ukraine-conducting-a-sabotage-campaign-inside-russia-3e859999-e689-4d90-9dfc-67cbbc356eb6 (https://www.iol.co.za/news/world/is-ukraine-conducting-a-sabotage-campaign-inside-russia-3e859999-e689-4d90-9dfc-67cbbc356eb6)

Ukraine's not.  We are.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 09, 2022, 01:30:07 am
It's "Dr. Jill" to you, buddy!    :laugh:

My bad.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 09, 2022, 01:32:36 am
Is Ukraine conducting a sabotage campaign inside Russia?

If not, then they damn sure ought to be, considering what Russia has done to them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 09, 2022, 02:15:52 am
Is Ukraine conducting a sabotage campaign inside Russia?



@Elderberry

I'd say there is an equal chance it might be Russians doing it. There are a lot of Russian parents,uncles and aunts,and other relatives now who now have young male relatives dead due to the invasion of Ukraine.

And it looks more and more every day like all those deaths were for nothing.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 09, 2022, 11:10:03 am
Vladimir Putin Defends War, Ignores 'Ukraine' in Victory Day Parade Speech

https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-victory-day-speech-may-9-defends-war-ignores-ukraine-donbas-1704715 (https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-victory-day-speech-may-9-defends-war-ignores-ukraine-donbas-1704715)

Quote
Russian President Vladimir Putin in his Victory Day speech before a military parade in Moscow's Red Square defended his ongoing invasion in Ukraine as the "only right solution," without mentioning the neighboring country by name.

Speaking at the 77th annual commemoration of the end of World War II, known in Russia as the Great Patriotic War, Putin laid out his goals in Ukraine nearly 80 days into his so-called "special military operation," where Russian forces have been unable to achieve most of their strategic objectives.

Defending his invasion, which began in February, the Russian leader said he believed the West was arming Kyiv to attack Crimea. His forces annexed the peninsula from Ukraine in 2014.

"NATO countries did not want to listen to us. They had different plans, and we saw it," Putin said. "They were planning an invasion into our historic lands, including Crimea."

"It was a threat we couldn't accept, it was a threat directly to our border. Everything showed that we are dealing with Nazis and we have to do something about it," Putin said, circling back to his rhetoric that one of the Kremlin's key goals is to "de-nazify" Ukraine.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 11:11:06 am
Vladimir Putin Defends War, Ignores 'Ukraine' in Victory Day Parade Speech

https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-victory-day-speech-may-9-defends-war-ignores-ukraine-donbas-1704715 (https://www.newsweek.com/vladimir-putin-victory-day-speech-may-9-defends-war-ignores-ukraine-donbas-1704715)



So, lies and propaganda from Putin.  The fish does rot from the head.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 11:13:14 am
Putin twists the truth as he declares Russia is now fighting for its survival during Victory Day parade featuring Ukraine invasion 'Z' symbols – while Doomsday jet flyover is mysteriously axed

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
9 May 2022

Vladimir Putin gave a chest-beating speech to his troops during Moscow's Victory Day parade today - telling soldiers that they are now fighting for the security of the nation against what he called Western plans to invade.

Seeking to re-frame his war in Ukraine as a war between Russia and the West, he declared NATO to be the aggressor and said he is trying to deescalate the situation with a 'special military operation' against a 'neo-Nazi' regime in Kyiv, declaring that launching the attack was 'the only right decision' he could have taken.

He also sought to twist the truth of what is happening on the ground in Ukraine, hailing a day of 'great victory' despite Russia's battlefield defeats and telling his men they are fighting a just war despite plentiful evidence of war crimes in occupied territories.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10796519/Ukraine-war-Victory-Day-parades-place-Russia.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 09, 2022, 11:16:51 am
Justin Trudeau makes surprise visit to Ukraine

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/08/trudeau-irpin-ukraine-visit (https://www.axios.com/2022/05/08/trudeau-irpin-ukraine-visit)

Quote
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made a surprise visit to Irpin, Ukraine on Sunday, the town's mayor Olexander Markushyn said in a Telegram post alongside photos of Trudeau walking around the town.

Driving the news: Trudeau also traveled to Kyiv, where he presided over the raising of the Canadian flag at the country's embassy and announced its reopening, per Politico.

•   During a joint press conference in Kyiv alongside Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, Trudeau announced more military assistance for Ukraine, including for drone cameras, satellite imagery, small arms and ammunition.

•   Trudeau also announced additional funding for demining operations, women's and human rights organizations, and the World Food Program. Canada will impose new sanctions on 40 Russians and five Russian entities, and remove trade tariffs on Ukrainian imports coming to Canada for the next year, he added.

What they're saying: "He has just had the honor of speaking with the Prime Minister of Canada, Justin Trudeau," Markushyn wrote. "He came to Irpin to see with his own eyes all the horror that the Russian occupiers had done to our city."

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 11:18:37 am
Russian ambassador is doused in red paint while laying flowers at Soviet war memorial in Poland

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
9 May 2022

Vladimir Putin appeared to walk with a limp and sat with a blanket over his lap during Victory Day commemorations in Moscow today, raising fresh doubts over his health.

The Russian leader, 69, attended the event - which commemorates Nazi Germany's surrender in 1945 - to give a speech during which he projected an image of Russian strength and military might despite the faltering war in Ukraine.

But at several points - including as he left a speaking podium and went to the Tomb of the Unknown Solider to lay a wreath - Putin appeared to be walking with a heavy step, as if trying to disguise a limp.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10797021/Ukraine-war-Putin-seen-limping-Victory-Day-parade.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 11:20:34 am
Putin's 40th colonel to die in Ukraine is confirmed today as Vladimir marks Victory Day in Moscow

By WILL STEWART
9 May 2022

Vladimir Putin has lost his 40th colonel in Ukraine, it was confirmed today as he marked Victory Day in Moscow.

Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Blinov, 42, was killed in March but news of his death was strenuously denied by Russian officials.

His death has been confirmed by a picture on his grave in Volgograd, south-western Russia.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10796811/Putins-40th-colonel-die-Ukraine-confirmed-today-Vladimir-marks-Victory-Day-Moscow.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Gefn on May 09, 2022, 12:58:37 pm
Mine-sniffing dog 'Patron' barks at Trudeau as Zelensky awards him medal


Quote

A Ukrainian bomb-sniffing dog and his owner were awarded a service medal by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Sunday during a ceremony in Kyiv alongside Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

The Jack Russell terrier, named "Patron," has been credited with sniffing out more than 200 explosive devices since Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Patron has become a symbol of Ukrainian patriotism, and his mine hunting has been chronicled by media worldwide since the start of the war. Patron struggled to maintain his composure during the ceremony and barked at the Canadian prime minister as he was awarded his medal.



https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ukrainian-mine-sniffing-dog-patron-barks-at-canadian-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-as-volodymyr-zelensky-awards-him-medal


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Gefn on May 09, 2022, 12:59:31 pm
Mine-sniffing dog 'Patron' barks at Trudeau as Zelensky awards him medal


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/ukrainian-mine-sniffing-dog-patron-barks-at-canadian-prime-minister-justin-trudeau-as-volodymyr-zelensky-awards-him-medal


Photos and videos of the dog embedded in article. He’s a cutie
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 09, 2022, 01:09:07 pm
Quote
To insinuate that Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians were nazis while Russian-speaking Ukrainians were patriots to Mother Russia is a total fabrication with no basis in truth.

If a baseless lie that's been told since Stalin and repeated continuously by Putin as justification for his illegal annexation of the Crimea and his illegal attack on Ukraine starting back in 2014.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 09, 2022, 01:10:35 pm
Drop-ins by Pelosi, Jill, U2, Trudeau - is this a war or a tourist attraction?  :pondering:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 09, 2022, 01:25:36 pm
Drop-ins by Pelosi, Jill, U2, Trudeau - is this a war or a tourist attraction?  :pondering:

Considering all of them are political empty suits...it's a tourist trip.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 09, 2022, 02:55:17 pm
To me the greatest irony is the fact that Putin has loudly cried for years that he cannot tolerate a NATO country on his border, and when this is done he'll likely have two.  Finland will get in, and so will Ukraine when Russia loses the war.  This is worse than a disaster for Russia, it's a blunder.

I agree with you about Finland. I'm not so sure about Ukraine. I think it will be more likely that they will be NATO compliant, but not in NATO in name. Another thought, Belarus may be the next domino to fall. The current govt., is a puppet of Russia but they won't stay in power forever and as Ukraine rebuilds, becomes more connected to the West, and prospers I would imagine the people of Belarus will want the same.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 02:59:05 pm
I agree with you about Finland. I'm not so sure about Ukraine. I think it will be more likely that they will be NATO compliant, but not in NATO in name. Another thought, Belarus may be the next domino to fall. The current govt., is a puppet of Russia but they won't stay in power forever and as Ukraine rebuilds, becomes more connected to the West, and prospers I would imagine the people of Belarus will want the same.


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 09, 2022, 02:59:07 pm
It's a matter of degree.  What compels a person to remain and shelter-in-place?  Finances?  Their own personal neutrality in the matter?

The Mariupol citizenry had MORE than enough warning to GTFO!  And "...where to?" won't play after the first waves back in January.

Why should they get out. It's their country!

The Russians are the invaders.

Apply your thinking to 1812. Should the Americans have fled and just ceded DC to the British?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 03:10:55 pm
Elon Musk is threatened by the head of Russia's space agency for providing internet to Ukrainians: SpaceX CEO jokes 'if I die under mysterious circumstances, it's been nice knowin' ya' - but his mom Maye doesn't find it funny

By STEPHEN M. LEPORE FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
9 May 2022

Tesla CEO Elon Musk has been threatened by the head of Russia's space agency over his attempts to provide Ukraine with internet service.

Musk, 50, has been using Starlink - a constellation of more than 2,000 satellites in low Earth orbit - to  beam internet connections to dishes around the world.

The service has a large presence in Ukraine, introduced with the explicit intention of keeping the country online amid the ongoing Russian invasion.

The billionaire said they had 'resisted hacking and jamming attempts' from the Russians back in April and were focusing SpaceX efforts on counter measures - at the expense of other projects.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10796113/Elon-Musk-claims-hes-threatened-Russian-space-agency-head-providing-Ukraine-internet.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 09, 2022, 03:16:08 pm
But silence doesn't goad Russia into a wider war or open a false flag chemical attack window for the US to use.   

Remember, removing Putin is our goal and we are prepared to fight to the last Ukrainian --- and if need be, the last American ---- to make this happen.

There's no going back now.

This is just another talking point of an isolationalist perspective.

1. No one supports American troops getting into the war.

2. Putin can stay in power as long as Russians allow it.

3. No one is supporting an invasion of Russia.

I realize that a lot of isolationists think supporting Ukraine will lead to an expansion of globalization. The opposite is what is occurring. European nations have been awakened to the reality that they are far too dependent on the good graces of the USA for their defense and too easily blackmailed by Russia because of their energy dependence. These European nations are now starting to look to expand their defense spending and are looking to other sources than Russia for energy. The issues following this invasion by Russia involving food shortages and supply chain disruptions will further increase individual nations desire to become more self sufficient. NATO will become more of a peace keeping pact among it's members than a counter weight to potential Russian expansion because Russia is going to die as a result of this war.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 03:16:43 pm
This is just another talking point of an isolationalist perspective.

1. No one supports American troops getting into the war.

2. Putin can stay in power as long as Russians allow it.

3. No one is supporting an invasion of Russia.

I realize that a lot of isolationists think supporting Ukraine will lead to an expansion of globalization. The opposite is what is occurring. European nations have been awakened to the reality that they are far too dependent on the good graces of the USA for their defense and too easily blackmailed by Russia because of their energy dependence. These European nations are now starting to look to expand their defense spending and are looking to other sources than Russia for energy. The issues following this invasion by Russia involving food shortages and supply chain disruptions will further increase individual nations desire to become more self sufficient. NATO will become more of a peace keeping pact among it's members than a counter weight to potential Russian expansion because Russia is going to die as a result of this war.



:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 09, 2022, 03:17:30 pm
IMO, if they have camera lens capability to read your wrist watch from orbit, they also have the capability to send a laser beam to your center mass to 'disrupt your internal rhythm'...aka heart attack...brain aneurysm.

Let's ask Andrew Breitbart.   /s
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 09, 2022, 03:25:02 pm
"It was a threat we couldn't accept, it was a threat directly to our border. Everything showed that we are dealing with Nazis and we have to do something about it," Putin said, circling back to his rhetoric that one of the Kremlin's key goals is to "de-nazify" Ukraine.

I honestly don't know which is scarier. That fool,who just happens to be THE fool in charge of Russia's military would spout such nonsense,or that the rest of the Russian leadership SEEMS to be going along with it.

I capitalized "seems" because none of us ever know what is going on in secret in the background,and for all we know,the big boys in the Politburo are planning on removing him from office. I sincerely hope this paragraph is the one that applies to what is happening in the real world,behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 09, 2022, 03:44:28 pm
IMO, if they have camera lens capability to read your wrist watch from orbit, they also have the capability to send a laser beam to your center mass to 'disrupt your internal rhythm'...aka heart attack...brain aneurysm.

Let's ask Andrew Breitbart.   /s

Staffers at our embassies in Cuba Russia and China have been complaining of headaches, nausea, memory loss and other cognitive difficulties. It's referred to as the "Havana Syndrome".
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 09, 2022, 05:38:31 pm
I agree with you about Finland. I'm not so sure about Ukraine. I think it will be more likely that they will be NATO compliant, but not in NATO in name. Another thought, Belarus may be the next domino to fall. The current govt., is a puppet of Russia but they won't stay in power forever and as Ukraine rebuilds, becomes more connected to the West, and prospers I would imagine the people of Belarus will want the same.

If Ukraine wins this and kicks Russia out of Crimea too, then yes, Belarus comes into play.  And other satellites as well.  A blunder is in progress....
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 09, 2022, 06:10:29 pm
 Pentagon: Russian military continues to struggle with poor morale, refusal to obey orders
by TheHill.com - 05/09/22 1:42 PM ET

Russian forces have not made any significant progress in Moscow’s new offensive in eastern Ukraine, a situation partly due to poor morale and some troops “refusing to obey orders,” a senior U.S. defense official said Monday.

“We still see anecdotal reports of poor morale of troops, indeed officers, refusing to obey orders and move and not really sound command and control from a leadership perspective,” the official told reporters.

The official later said “midgrade officers at various levels, even up to the battalion level” either have refused to obey orders “or are not obeying them with the same measure of alacrity that you would expect an officer to obey.”

Russian forces have struggled to make major gains in the Donbas region of Ukraine since beginning a new offensive in the area last month. 

On top of dealing with morale issues that have lingered since the start of the war on Feb. 24, the Kremlin also is struggling to resupply its troops and move its weapons and equipment in muddy spring weather, the official said. 

more
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3481944-pentagon-russian-military-continues-to-struggle-with-poor-morale-refusal-to-obey-orders/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 06:43:24 pm
Hackers hijack Russian TV to say country has ‘blood on your hands’ for Ukraine war

By Lee Brown
May 9, 2022

Hackers disrupted Russia’s Victory Day parade Monday by hijacking TV stations to accuse the nation’s citizens of having “blood on your hands” over the Ukraine war.

The country’s strictly censored cable and satellite TV stations flashed the “No to war” messages Monday just before warmongering President Vladimir Putin made a bloated show of strength in Red Square.

“You have the blood of thousands of Ukrainians and hundreds of dead children on your hands,” one of the various slogans also read.

“The TV and the authorities are lying. No to war.”

A Russian news website also showed anti-war material that was deeply critical of Putin, which swiftly disappeared.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/hackers-hijack-russian-tv-to-say-country-has-blood-on-hands/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 06:45:17 pm
Putin sparks more health speculation by covering legs with blanket at parade

By Yaron Steinbuch
May 9, 2022

Russian President Vladimir Putin sat with a heavy blanket across his legs and appeared to be limping during a massive Victory Parade on Monday — renewing speculation about the strongman’s health.

Putin, 69, appeared to be the only one covering his knees with the blanket while surrounded by far older World War II vets, the Mirror reported.

“President Vladimir Putin throws aside his Russian Wool blanket to stride manfully to the unknown,” one user commented on Twitter.

Another quipped that Putin “stole a blanket from a veteran.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/putin-sparks-health-speculation-for-covering-legs-with-blanket/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 06:46:03 pm
Putin sparks more health speculation by covering legs with blanket at parade

By Yaron Steinbuch
May 9, 2022

Russian President Vladimir Putin sat with a heavy blanket across his legs and appeared to be limping during a massive Victory Parade on Monday — renewing speculation about the strongman’s health.

Putin, 69, appeared to be the only one covering his knees with the blanket while surrounded by far older World War II vets, the Mirror reported.

“President Vladimir Putin throws aside his Russian Wool blanket to stride manfully to the unknown,” one user commented on Twitter.

Another quipped that Putin “stole a blanket from a veteran.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/putin-sparks-health-speculation-for-covering-legs-with-blanket/


(A) That certainly isn't the same Putin who used to ride around on a horse bare-chested, and

(B) His face looks a little puffy and swollen; he doesnt' look well.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 09, 2022, 06:49:42 pm
What happened with the surgery Poot was supposed to have? Did we miss it?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 09, 2022, 06:49:46 pm
Elon Musk is threatened by the head of Russia's space agency for providing internet to Ukrainians: SpaceX CEO jokes 'if I die under mysterious circumstances, it's been nice knowin' ya' - but his mom Maye doesn't find it funny

By STEPHEN M. LEPORE FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
9 May 2022

Tesla CEO Elon Musk has been threatened by the head of Russia's space agency over his attempts to provide Ukraine with internet service.

Musk, 50, has been using Starlink - a constellation of more than 2,000 satellites in low Earth orbit - to  beam internet connections to dishes around the world.

The service has a large presence in Ukraine, introduced with the explicit intention of keeping the country online amid the ongoing Russian invasion.

The billionaire said they had 'resisted hacking and jamming attempts' from the Russians back in April and were focusing SpaceX efforts on counter measures - at the expense of other projects.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10796113/Elon-Musk-claims-hes-threatened-Russian-space-agency-head-providing-Ukraine-internet.html
Musk also has the benefit of testing his security against hostile hackers who really want to be successful (at least officially) at breaching security. How many social media/internet platforms will be able to say they've been tested against weapons grade hackers?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 06:52:18 pm
Musk also has the benefit of testing his security against hostile hackers who really want to be successful (at least officially) at breaching security. How many social media/internet platforms will be able to say they've been tested against weapons grade hackers?

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 09, 2022, 06:52:39 pm
Pentagon: Russian military continues to struggle with poor morale, refusal to obey orders
by TheHill.com - 05/09/22 1:42 PM ET

Russian forces have not made any significant progress in Moscow’s new offensive in eastern Ukraine, a situation partly due to poor morale and some troops “refusing to obey orders,” a senior U.S. defense official said Monday.

“We still see anecdotal reports of poor morale of troops, indeed officers, refusing to obey orders and move and not really sound command and control from a leadership perspective,” the official told reporters.

The official later said “midgrade officers at various levels, even up to the battalion level” either have refused to obey orders “or are not obeying them with the same measure of alacrity that you would expect an officer to obey.”

Russian forces have struggled to make major gains in the Donbas region of Ukraine since beginning a new offensive in the area last month. 

On top of dealing with morale issues that have lingered since the start of the war on Feb. 24, the Kremlin also is struggling to resupply its troops and move its weapons and equipment in muddy spring weather, the official said. 

more
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3481944-pentagon-russian-military-continues-to-struggle-with-poor-morale-refusal-to-obey-orders/
Ukraine would be wise to find ways to keep the ground muddy, to keep the Russian advance (literally) bogged down. Dry ground corridors would allow Russians to advance into kill zones as well.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 09, 2022, 07:08:47 pm
To insinuate that Ukrainian-speaking Ukrainians were nazis while Russian-speaking Ukrainians were patriots to Mother Russia is a total fabrication with no basis in truth.

In WW2, Western Ukraine sided with nazi Germany, fought along side them and considered nazi German the Ukranian liberator.  Eastern Ukraine sided with Russia, fought with them and considered Russia to be Ukraine's liberator.

You see this same pro/anti Russia geographical spllt in Ukraine today.

Another split you still see in Ukraine today is language.  Western Ukraine today, as in WW2, speaks Ukrainian and  Eastern Ukraine speaks Russian.  Kiev's removal of Russian as an official language in Ukraine was in the mix of triggers for Donbas declaring its separation from Kiev and the start of Ukraine's battle with the region back in 2014.

@txradioguy
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 09, 2022, 07:36:02 pm
 Biden signs bill to expedite military aid to Ukraine
by Morgan Chalfant - 05/09/22 3:22 PM ET

President Biden on Monday signed legislation that will make it easier for the U.S. to send military equipment to Ukraine as the Eastern European country battles the ongoing Russian invasion.

Biden signed the bill in the Oval Office at a ceremony with Vice President Harris. The bill, formally known as the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act of 2022, passed Congress with bipartisan support last month. 

The bill was introduced by Sens. John Cornyn (R-Texas) and Ben Cardin (D-Md.) and allows the U.S. to lend or lease military equipment to Ukraine and other allies in Eastern Europe while streamlining the process to make it easier to do so. The bill revives a World War II-era policy that helped defeat Nazi Germany. 

The bill passed the Senate in a voice vote and later passed the House in a bipartisan vote of 417-10 last month. All 10 of the “no” votes in the House came from Republicans. 

more
https://thehill.com/news/administration/3482064-biden-signs-bill-to-expedite-military-aid-to-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 09, 2022, 07:50:33 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aDDQnLG_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 09, 2022, 10:28:24 pm
Russian army files most of its KIAs as missing not to pay families compensation

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3479187-russian-army-files-most-of-its-kias-as-missing-not-to-pay-families-compensation.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3479187-russian-army-files-most-of-its-kias-as-missing-not-to-pay-families-compensation.html)

Quote
In late April, Putin signed a decree obliging the government to pay RUB 3 million to families of wounded soldiers and RUB 5 million – to those of the servicemen killed in action. However, Russia's military leadership files most of its KIAs as missing, therefore their families will not receive any compensation.

The Center for Countering Disinformation (CCD) at the National Security and Defense Council wrote about this on Telegram, Ukrinform reports.

"These grand promises should have had a positive effect on mobilization because for such money many ruscists are willing to risk their lives. But these statements are a bitter reality where Russia files most of the fallen soldiers as missing, so as not to pay compensation," the officials note.

Yegor Shkrebets, a conscript who was killed on the Moskva Cruiser before being officially declared missing by the Russian prosecutor's office is a bright example of such practices.

As Ukrinform reported earlier, from February 24 to May 9, the Armed Forces of Ukraine liquidated about 25,650 (+150) Russian servicemen.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 09, 2022, 10:50:07 pm
Democrats want to boost Biden Ukraine aid plan to near $40B
By ALAN FRAMan hour ago

WASHINGTON (AP) — Congressional Democrats are preparing a plan that would boost President Joe Biden’s requested $33 billion Ukraine aid package to nearly $40 billion, and a House vote is possible as soon as Tuesday, two people familiar with lawmakers’ thinking said.

In a retreat, Biden conceded that the package should not contain any of the additional billions he’s requested to combat COVID-19. Republicans, whose backing would be crucial to pushing legislation through the evenly divided Senate, have opposed adding that money to the Ukraine aid.

“We cannot afford delay in this vital war effort,” Biden said in a written statement. “Hence, I am prepared to accept that these two measures move separately, so that the Ukrainian aid bill can get to my desk right away.”

Biden said he has “nearly exhausted” his authority to continue shipping military aid to Ukraine, adding, “We are approximately ten days from hitting this critical deadline.”

Democrats have already offered their latest proposal to the GOP.

more
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-biden-europe-congress-6ac9e6bfcb99fd7cbc02cad1445d36c2
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 09, 2022, 11:22:58 pm
OSINT Aggregator
@AggregateOsint

#Mariupol Update - #Russia & #Ukraine report that #Russian troops are inside the plant and taking more territory. #Russian's posted videos and the #Azov Regimental Commander Denis Prokopenko reported the breach of the main buildings. All civilians have been evacuated by the #UN.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSSqJAKXsAA8Alw?format=jpg&name=small)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSSrY4TXoAITf-t?format=png&name=small)

1:11 AM · May 9, 2022  Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 11:24:21 pm
Russian army files most of its KIAs as missing not to pay families compensation

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3479187-russian-army-files-most-of-its-kias-as-missing-not-to-pay-families-compensation.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3479187-russian-army-files-most-of-its-kias-as-missing-not-to-pay-families-compensation.html)


Figures.  And with their portable crematoria, those "missing" KIAs will never be found.  How very Nazi of the Russians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 09, 2022, 11:28:57 pm
Russian army files most of its KIAs as missing not to pay families compensation

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3479187-russian-army-files-most-of-its-kias-as-missing-not-to-pay-families-compensation.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3479187-russian-army-files-most-of-its-kias-as-missing-not-to-pay-families-compensation.html)
Considering this, photographing dead soldiers and sending those images to next of kin becomes a kindness, not the horror some characterized it as.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 09, 2022, 11:30:35 pm
Considering this, photographing dead soldiers and sending those images to next of kin becomes a kindness, not the horror some characterized it as.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 09, 2022, 11:38:13 pm
I doubt it would make much difference. If the government does not want to pay then they simply will not pay. A photograph will not change the situation in Russia. What is worse is the guys returning with no legs or other disabilities. Russia gives them something like a bottle of vodka, a loaf of bread, a bottle of cooking oil, 500 rubles, and maybe a chicken. Then it is, 'so long. see you later. bah by.'
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 09, 2022, 11:44:57 pm
Arnaud Bertrand
@RnaudBertrand

I think someone is very confused about their WW2 history.

Quote
The Guardian
@guardian · May 8

Ukraine will prevail as Europe did in 1945, Scholz says in VE Day speech

More:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/08/ukraine-will-prevail-as-europe-did-in-1945-scholz-says-in-ve-day-speech?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1652028901 

10:07 PM · May 8, 2022    Twitter Web App



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 09, 2022, 11:53:54 pm
Arnaud Bertrand
@RnaudBertrand

I think someone is very confused about their WW2 history.

Quote
The Guardian
@guardian · May 8

Ukraine will prevail as Europe did in 1945, Scholz says in VE Day speech

More:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/08/ukraine-will-prevail-as-europe-did-in-1945-scholz-says-in-ve-day-speech?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1652028901

10:07 PM · May 8, 2022    Twitter Web App

serio bretas
@serbretas

Replying to @guardian

Herr Scholtz forgot to say that Europe only 'prevailed' in 1945 after the Russians burned Berlin to the ground, exactly 77 years ago today.

You can't erase HISTORY!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSQG5ZQXsAA_Tqe?format=jpg&name=small)

1:12 PM · May 8, 2022  Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 09, 2022, 11:54:48 pm
In WW2, Western Ukraine sided with nazi Germany, fought along side them and considered nazi German the Ukranian liberator.  Eastern Ukraine sided with Russia, fought with them and considered Russia to be Ukraine's liberator.

You see this same pro/anti Russia geographical spllt in Ukraine today.

Another split you still see in Ukraine today is language.  Western Ukraine today, as in WW2, speaks Ukrainian and  Eastern Ukraine speaks Russian.  Kiev's removal of Russian as an official language in Ukraine was in the mix of triggers for Donbas declaring its separation from Kiev and the start of Ukraine's battle with the region back in 2014.

@txradioguy

Repeating the lies does not make them true.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 12:07:32 am
FWIW   :shrug:

Quote
What's the media hiding?
@narrative_hole

You guys have no idea how much damage Russia causes DAILY with air-defense, ballistic, cruise & air-to-ground missiles.

Every day the Russian MoD runs a briefing and moves on.

I will let you know what got destroyed today, so you understand the scope of Ukrainian losses:

1- unspecified number of Ukrainian helicopters destroyed in the ground by and Onyx missile in Artsiz, Odessa region

2- 1 ammunition depot destroyed near Gulkhov

3- 4 MLRS “Smerch” and 1 S300 in the Bohodukhov area

4- air-defense shot down 2 MiG-29 in Iverskoe and Novodonetskoe

5- one Su-25 shot down near Pogonovka in the Kharkiv region

6- 3 UAV’s shot down near Snake Island inc 2 Bayraktar TB2’s

7- 12 UAV’s shot down in Balakleya, Shiikovka, Goptovka, Kamienka, Aveevka + a few other places

8- a US supplied counter-battery radar destroyed in Zolotoy

9- 1 MLRS “Grad” & 2 command posts near Popasna

10- Russia MLRS and artillery hit 26 command posts, 26 artillery units in firing positions & 211 areas of manpower and equipment concentration resulting in up to 350 kills

THIS WAS 1 DAY

It happens literally every day

7:50 AM · May 9, 2022·Twitter for iPhone 


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 12:10:16 am
"#Russian troops in liberated #Mariupol"  (Video)

 https://mobile.twitter.com/timand2037/status/1523466727903797248
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 10, 2022, 12:40:08 am
Quote
You guys have no idea how much damage Russia causes DAILY with air-defense, ballistic, cruise & air-to-ground missiles.

I think we have a pretty good idea.

(https://cdn.bolnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/202204120549-main.cropped_1649717369.jpg)

(https://usercontent.one/wp/www.techregister.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/1651720228_Ukraine-latest-news-Mariupol-theatre-bombing-killed-600-civilians-evidence.jpg)

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.todayfm.co.nz%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fmws-sites-nextgen%2Fimages%2Ftoday-fm%2F22%2F05%2Fukraine%2520school%2520bombing.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 10, 2022, 12:44:13 am
Quote
"#Russian troops in liberated #Mariupol"  (Video)

Liberated?

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs.yimg.com%2Fny%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FAOpWom6m8090CtUQBm2Ztg--%2FYXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTEyMDA7aD02NDY-%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fs.yimg.com%2Fos%2Fcreatr-uploaded-images%2F2022-04%2Fbe34b100-ba35-11ec-abfb-56c4b68529ef&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 10, 2022, 01:10:57 am
Liberated?

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs.yimg.com%2Fny%2Fapi%2Fres%2F1.2%2FAOpWom6m8090CtUQBm2Ztg--%2FYXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTEyMDA7aD02NDY-%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fs.yimg.com%2Fos%2Fcreatr-uploaded-images%2F2022-04%2Fbe34b100-ba35-11ec-abfb-56c4b68529ef&f=1&nofb=1)

They were liberated of everything they had.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 01:14:22 am
They were liberated of everything they had.

Thanks to the Azov/Ukrainian army who's shelling them for eight years.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 10, 2022, 01:14:58 am
First Lady Jill Biden Goes To Ukraine, President Heads To Golf Course
By  Joseph Curl

May 9, 2022   DailyWire.com

(https://dw-wp-production.imgix.net/2022/05/biden-1.jpg?fit=crop&ar=16%3A9&w=2048&auto=format&ixlib=react-9.3.0)

On Mother’s Day, first lady Jill Biden made an unannounced trip to Europe, slipping from Slovakia into Ukraine to meet with her counterpart in the war-torn country.

Meanwhile, her husband, the president of the United States, headed to the golf course to play a round with his brother.

A reporter covering the president’s weekend visit to his home in Wilmington, Delaware, chronicled Biden’s golf trip.

“Pool joined the president’s motorcade near the Biden residence at 3:22pm ET,” Los Angeles Times reporter Courtney Subramanian said in a pool report. “Pool arrived at the Fieldstone Golf Club at 3:29 pm ET. Pool has not seen POTUS today. We’re headed to the hold location.”

Later, she wrote: “POTUS is golfing with his brother Jimmy, per the WH.”

more
https://www.dailywire.com/news/first-lady-jill-biden-goes-to-ukraine-president-heads-to-golf-course
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 10, 2022, 01:22:03 am
https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/1522705767911944192
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 10, 2022, 01:53:19 am

https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/1522705767911944192 (https://twitter.com/USATODAY/status/1522705767911944192)
If you gave him a thousand billion dollars today, tomorrow he will say he needs 100,000 thousand billion dollars. There is no end to it. And as long as Congress gets their "Big Guy 10% kickback", they will keep feeding him.

$600, 000, 000, 000 is 600 thousand million dollars.
But why stop there? Let's give him ...
$100, 000, 000, 000, 000 a hundred trillion dollars.
Hell man, lets give him a million trillion dollars?
It is all Monopoly Money anyway ...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 10, 2022, 02:09:12 am
Thanks to the Azov/Ukrainian army who's shelling them for eight years.

Just stop already.  Ok?  Just stop.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 10, 2022, 02:12:10 am
If you gave him a thousand billion dollars today, tomorrow he will say he needs 100,000 thousand billion dollars. There is no end to it. And as long as Congress gets their "Big Guy 10% kickback", they will keep feeding him.

$600, 000, 000, 000 is 600 thousand million dollars.
But why stop there? Let's give him ...
$100, 000, 000, 000, 000 a hundred trillion dollars.
Hell man, lets give him a million trillion dollars?
It is all Monopoly Money anyway ...

Russia is responsible of the destruction. Russia can pay the bill.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 10, 2022, 02:17:38 am
Offensive on Mariupol (September 2014)

In late August and early September 2014, Russian-backed separatists supporting the Donetsk People's Republic advanced on the government-controlled port city of Mariupol in southern Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine which it had controlled between May and June. This followed a wide offensive by DPR/Novorossiya forces, which led to their capture of Novoazovsk to the east. Fighting reached the outskirts of Mariupol on 6 September.

DPR advance

The offensive against Mariupol began on 28 August 2014, when separatist forces captured the town of Novoazovsk. The Ukrainian soldiers that left Novoazovsk retreated to Mariupol. Many citizens left Mariupol due to fear of an attack.

On 4 September, Ukrainian forces engaged separatists, who came from the village of Bezimenne, between the villages of Shirokino and Berdyanske. One separatist tank and a truck were destroyed, while another separatist truck was left abandoned.

On 5 September, fighting primarily raged in the village of Shirokino, while clashes once again took place at Bezimenne. The clashes over the previous two days had left seven civilians dead.[citation needed] Also, the Azov battalion started to train Mariupol citizens in self-defense and organize popular militias to defend the city. About a dozen of Ukrainian army APCs arrived with men and ammo to help the defense battalions to defend the city. More heavy fighting was reported in Mariupol despite the ceasefire agreement. Ukrainian forces shelled DPR positions near Mariupol, and claimed to have repelled an attack. separatist forces claimed they entered Mariupol, which Ukraine denied.

Fighting in the outskirts
On 5 September, seven Ukrainian Army T-64 tanks reputedly faced in battle 30 tanks, allegedly Russian T-80s. The Ukrainians repelled the attack but lost four tanks and retreated with the three remaining to the Army checkpoint on the outskirts of Mariupol. The commander of the Ukrainian tank brigade was in a state of post-shock but the three surviving tanks were reloaded with ammunition so they could return to the battlefield.

On 7 September, DPR artillery fire destroyed a Ukrainian military truck at a checkpoint on the outskirts of the town. A civilian was also killed in the shelling. The Azov Battalion also captured a tank near Mariupol, while the crew escaped. The same day, it was confirmed DPR forces had captured Shirokino.

On 8 September, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko visited Mariupol, telling steelworkers that Ukrainian forces had secured the city with tanks, howitzers, anti-tank guns and other weapons should the separtists violate the ceasefire. He also promised a "crushing defeat" on the separatists if they advanced on the city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offensive_on_Mariupol_(September_2014)


So it was Russian-supported insurgents that attacked Mariupol - not the Ukrainian Army.  Go figure.

This illustrates the pitfall of making up bullshit accusations without offering a shred of supporting evidence to cite.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 10, 2022, 02:20:20 am
Russia is responsible of the destruction. Russia can pay the bill.

Ditto.  Maybe they can sell off some of their land to pay it.  Like Konigsberg, the Kuril Islands, North Ossetia, etc.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 10, 2022, 02:26:20 am
(https://www.privateislandsonline.com/uploads/resize/_597_image_fe02c338d8.jpg-1074-822.jpg)
You can buy this private island and live there forever with 24 naked maids for a paltry tip of $160 million dollars $160,000,000.

This is how much Zelinsky would spend on a single meal. Pocket change.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 10, 2022, 03:29:35 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/avA9WoO_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 10, 2022, 04:04:34 am
If you gave him a thousand billion dollars today, tomorrow he will say he needs 100,000 thousand billion dollars. There is no end to it. And as long as Congress gets their "Big Guy 10% kickback", they will keep feeding him.

$600, 000, 000, 000 is 600 thousand million dollars.
But why stop there? Let's give him ...
$100, 000, 000, 000, 000 a hundred trillion dollars.
Hell man, lets give him a million trillion dollars?
It is all Monopoly Money anyway ...
Rebuilding is not our job. That is up to the Ukraine, Not the US, not NATO, and if they can squeeze Russia for the damages Russia has done there, all the better.
We can help the Ukrainians keep their country by giving them weapons, so they can retain the ports to trade and refit the tools to rebuild.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 10, 2022, 04:44:14 am
(https://www.privateislandsonline.com/uploads/resize/_597_image_fe02c338d8.jpg-1074-822.jpg)
You can buy this private island and live there forever with 24 naked maids for a paltry tip of $160 million dollars $160,000,000.

This is how much Zelinsky would spend on a single meal. Pocket change.
A single meal? Where is this restaurant?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 10, 2022, 06:05:58 am
As a famous Congressman once said, 'A hundred million here ... and a trillion dollars there, the next thing you know we are talking about serious money?'
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 09:08:45 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/avA9WoO_460s.jpg)

Ie, Russia admits that it is getting its a$$ kicked in Ukraine, by Ukrainians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 10, 2022, 10:41:43 am

(A) That certainly isn't the same Putin who used to ride around on a horse bare-chested, and

(B) His face looks a little puffy and swollen; he doesnt' look well.

@Kamaji

 I am starting to wonder if he has an official food taster. I know that at this point IF I were him,I would have one.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 10, 2022, 10:52:20 am
Considering this, photographing dead soldiers and sending those images to next of kin becomes a kindness, not the horror some characterized it as.

@Smokin Joe

It has always been both a kindness and a horror to the families.

I happen to think that regardless of the intent,in the long run it is a kindness because it allows the families to grieve and then recover from the grief. Not knowing what happened to their loved ones,and wondering if they are still alive and suffering in some slave labor camp somewhere is the worse possible thing that could happen to the families of these "missing" soldiers.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 10, 2022, 10:56:33 am
I doubt it would make much difference. If the government does not want to pay then they simply will not pay. A photograph will not change the situation in Russia. What is worse is the guys returning with no legs or other disabilities. Russia gives them something like a bottle of vodka, a loaf of bread, a bottle of cooking oil, 500 rubles, and maybe a chicken. Then it is, 'so long. see you later. bah by.'

@240B

And you will NEVER see any of these crippled and/or blind soldiers begging on the streets of Moscow,either. Russia didn't even allow obviously wounded and/or crippled soldiers to live in Moscow during WW-2.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 10, 2022, 11:20:06 am
Russia is responsible of the destruction. Russia can pay the bill.

@DB

Russia can't even pay her own bills due to the embargo that western Europe put on her.

I SUSPECT that Russia is already spending her cash reserves to make it APPEAR to Russian citizens that they are winning in Ukraine and there is nothing to be alarmed about,but this can't continue.

I have no idea how much longer it can last or what will happen when Russia starts running out of money to provide food,medical care,heat,and electricity to the Russian people,but I strongly suspect it is going to get ugly before it starts to get better.

After all,the only thing that keeps police states in power is the fear and illusion that they can and will provide all the basic needs to the people. Fear will only take you so far,but once the power goes out and the food supplies stop arriving,it gets ugly on a medieval level VERY quickly.

After all,people starving and freezing to death in the dark pretty much don't have anything to lose but pain and suffering.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 10, 2022, 11:26:46 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/avA9WoO_460s.jpg)

@240B

THAT ought to stir things up,both with the patriotic dedicated communists,and with the people already fed up with this war.  I SUSPECT those who are fed up greatly outnumber those whose Patriotism is aroused,but who really knows before the smoke clears?

The first sign things are going bad for the Russian leadership is when someone notices their families are leaving Moscow and the surrounding areas where their massive dachas are located.

This should be VERY obvious to western bankers,who will be receiving sudden and surprising amounts of wealth in transfers from Russia. Some will keep quiet about it,but others won't be able to resist whispering into media ears. ABC,CBS,NBC,etc,etc,etc might be reluctant to mention it,but it WILL get out.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 11:28:00 am
"AFU still shelling residential areas in Donetsk - Kirovsky district, today"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1523984023957221378


Quote
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

What strikes me the most when I see footage from Donetsk is how the people are... used to this. Everyone knows what to do when they hear artillery, "duck & cover", fire brigades move swiftly on muscle memory. 16-year-olds have lived half their lives like this.

7:13 AM · May 10, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 11:35:53 am
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

I think that became clear in Mariupol when Kiev decided to leave Azov to die & immediately started turning them into shahids with all the accompanying media idolatry while they're still alive & begging for help

Quote
Irkutyanin
@Irkutyanin1 · 19h

If it’s just a unit or two of regular army and then the national guard when those cities are surrounded, I think we can say that a definite intention to Ukrainian operations can be pointed out. Ukraine’s leadership quietly ensuring the annihilation of its own national guard.

5:42 AM · May 10, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 11:46:03 am
Is Russia now LOSING in Eastern Ukraine? Putin's propagandist 'war reporter' dares to criticise generals and says their troops 'can't push out Ukrainian forces' - as US says officers are DISOBEYING orders

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE and ASSOCIATED PRESS
9 May 2022

Russia is struggling to make significant military gains in Ukraine's Donbas region because it is fighting Kyiv's forces one-on-one, a pro-Moscow reporter has said.

War correspondent and Putin propagandist Aleksandr Sladkov made a rare admission of Russia's military struggles in Ukraine, speaking in a video posted to social media late on Monday.

He said that Vladimir Putin's so-called special military operation was 'shamefully indecisive', that Russian troops 'can't push out Ukrainian forces', and that Moscow's armies are 'making a feat out of something that should be routine'.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10799359/Is-Russia-LOSING-Donbas-Pro-Putin-war-reporter-says-troops-push-Ukrainian-forces.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 11:47:35 am
"AFU still shelling residential areas in Donetsk - Kirovsky district, today"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1523984023957221378

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Several civilians killed in Donetsk just today. No military utility to these strikes, pure terror tactics and spite. No idea why people thought this could just go on forever.

7:33 AM · May 10, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 11:47:48 am
Even Putin's media stooges are forced to admit Russia's invasion has stalled due to 'shameful' lack of equipment and reinforcements as Ukraine counter-strikes in the Donbas

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
10 May 2022

Putin's propagandists have begun openly criticising the state of Russia's military as even the Kremlin's most-hardened of supporters struggle to ignore the scope of its failings in Ukraine.

Vladimir Solovyov, one of Putin's most-prominent puppets, moaned last week about the 'shameful' length of time it takes for weapons to reach the front while guests on Russian state TV talk shows complained that men are being sent into battle 'with weapons of yesteryear' and the Russian economy cannot sustain the war.

Mikhail Khodaryonok, a retired Russia colonel, told viewers that even a much-feared general mobilisation of Russian forces would do little to turn the war in Moscow's favour because it lacks equipment and men to build new units. 'We don't have the reserves,' he told viewers.

Meanwhile Solovyov himself fumed that Russian troops are unable to get drones because so few are being produced, and even those that are made take too long to get into battle. 'Just try to bring something to the Donbas,' he said, 'it's easier to bring it in via Ukrainian customs in Lviv. They let any weapons through.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10800327/Ukraine-war-Russian-state-media-admits-shameful-military-failings.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 11:49:45 am
Putin has forcibly deported 1.2MILLION Ukrainians to Russia and put them in 'filtration camps' – including mother of four-year-old girl who 'was snatched off the street and separated from her daughter

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE and AFP and ASSOCIATED PRESS
9 May 2022

Ukrainians are being taken against their will into Russia, the U.S. has said, with some reports suggesting more than 1 million have been taken - including a mother who was separated from her four-year-old daughter.

A senior defence official said Tuesday that the Pentagon has seen indications that Ukrainians caught up in Russia's invasion are being forcibly removed from their homeland and sent across the border by Vladimir Putin's forces.

Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said that camps were involved in the process.

'I can't speak to how many camps or what they look like,' Kirby told reporters. 'But we do have indications that Ukrainians are being taken against their will into Russia.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10798771/Putins-troops-forcibly-removed-nearly-1-2MILLION-Ukrainians-sent-Russia-officials-say.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 11:50:31 am
Putin has forcibly deported 1.2MILLION Ukrainians to Russia and put them in 'filtration camps' – including mother of four-year-old girl who 'was snatched off the street and separated from her daughter

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE and AFP and ASSOCIATED PRESS
9 May 2022

Ukrainians are being taken against their will into Russia, the U.S. has said, with some reports suggesting more than 1 million have been taken - including a mother who was separated from her four-year-old daughter.

A senior defence official said Tuesday that the Pentagon has seen indications that Ukrainians caught up in Russia's invasion are being forcibly removed from their homeland and sent across the border by Vladimir Putin's forces.

Pentagon spokesman John Kirby said that camps were involved in the process.

'I can't speak to how many camps or what they look like,' Kirby told reporters. 'But we do have indications that Ukrainians are being taken against their will into Russia.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10798771/Putins-troops-forcibly-removed-nearly-1-2MILLION-Ukrainians-sent-Russia-officials-say.html

Forcibly removing civilians and sending them to concentration camps - how very Nazi-ish of the Russians.  And here we've been told all along that only Ukraine was Nazi.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 12:02:12 pm
"Donetsk People's Republic leader holds Victory Day Parade in Mariupol"  (Video)

https://youtu.be/YbSp9dtVPgA
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 10, 2022, 12:02:42 pm
Just stop already.  Ok?  Just stop.

It's getting kinda sad.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 12:09:15 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

A shopping mall on the outskirts of Odessa is reported to be on fire after a missile strike. No information yet what the target was. "Patriotic" business owners have been offering up their businesses to the AFU (& sometimes they don't ask) - maybe we'll see

4:32 PM · May 9, 2022·Twitter for Android


"it does sound/look like something exploded after the missile hit"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1523781986116333570
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 12:20:12 pm
Putin is gambling that the West will lose interest in Ukraine — let’s prove him wrong

By Dalibor Rohac
May 9, 2022

Those who feared, not without reason, that Russian President Vladimir Putin would use the annual Victory Day parade on Red Square as a backdrop for further escalation in his war against Ukraine — perhaps declaring general mobilization — might breathe a sigh of relief.

Instead of grand political gestures, the world witnessed many of the usual displays of military might, with the notable exception of a Z-styled flyover over Moscow — supposedly canceled due to bad weather, though it was a sunny day in Russia’s capital. Absent too was Valery Gerasimov, Russia’s chief of the general staff, reportedly wounded by shrapnel in his leg near Izyum, Ukraine, and almost certainly out of favor with Putin due to the shambolic planning and execution of the “special military operation” in Ukraine.

In his speech, Putin rehashed all the regime’s lies about his war of conquest. Supposedly, Russia was long seeking a “compromise” with an intransigent NATO, which continued to push closer to Russian borders with the aim of destroying the country. Citing campaigns by Russia’s historic military figures as precedents, he claimed that the nation’s defense required a preemptive strike.

If Putin’s speech lacked an explicit doubling down on his plan to destroy Ukraine — given Russia’s massive casualties and troops’ morale problems in Ukraine, calling in all the reservists could be a dangerous political proposition — it also conveyed little information about possible ways out from the corner that Putin has boxed himself into.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/09/putin-is-gambling-that-the-west-will-lose-interest-in-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 12:41:33 pm
"Lindsey Graham declares, "let's take out Putin" and says there is "no off-ramp in this war" -- also continues to suggest a No Fly Zone. "We can win this war on behalf of Ukraine," he adds.  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1523678611898703872
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 10, 2022, 12:51:15 pm
"Lindsey Graham declares, "let's take out Putin" and says there is "no off-ramp in this war" -- also continues to suggest a No Fly Zone. "We can win this war on behalf of Ukraine," he adds.  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/mtracey/status/1523678611898703872

@Right_in_Virginia

What's with this "us stuff",bubba?

Is Lady Lindsey now saying she is going to "suit up" and go to war?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 01:02:25 pm
Just stop already.  Ok?  Just stop.

It's getting kinda sad.

Okay, boys.  I've got to scoot. 

Play nice until I get back ..... and promise me you'll wear your helmets and won't run in the street.   Mommy loves you both.

(https://aipetcher.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/boys_playing_soldiersb.jpg)


@Hoodat   @txradioguy
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 10, 2022, 01:07:33 pm
Okay, boys.  I've got to scoot. 

Play nice until I get back ..... and promise me you'll wear your helmets and won't run in the street.   Mommy loves you both.

(https://aipetcher.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/boys_playing_soldiersb.jpg)


@Hoodat   @txradioguy

 :laugh:   
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 01:08:39 pm
Russia pounds vital port of Odesa, targeting supply lines

By ELENA BECATOROS and JON GAMBRELL
May 10, 2022

ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine (AP) — Russian troops pounded away at the vital port of Odesa, Ukrainian officials said Tuesday, apparently as part of efforts to disrupt the supply lines and weapons shipments that have been critical to Kyiv’s defense.

Ukraine’s ability to stymie a larger, better armed Russian military has surprised many observers, who had anticipated a much quicker conflict. With the war now in its 11th week and Kyiv bogging Russian forces down in many places and even staging a counteroffensive in others, Ukraine’s foreign minister appeared to suggest that the country could expand its aims beyond merely pushing Russia back to areas it or its allies held on the day of Feb. 24 invasion.

One of the most dramatic examples of Ukraine’s ability to deny Russia easy victories has been Mariupol, where Ukrainian fighters remain holed up at a steel plant despite a monthslong siege. The regiment defending the plant said Tuesday that Russian war planes continued pounding it.

*  *  *

Source:  https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-business-nato-moscow-c8e00f7bbc4f24aa40d70a4ac2d97adb
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 01:35:48 pm
Ukraine ‘destroys Putin parade boat’ with laser-guided bomb off Snake Island

Boat has been used for speeches by Russian president and in military exercises

Thomas Kingsley
May 10, 2022

A Russian “parade boat” used by Vladimir Putin to inspect naval fleets has been destroyed, Ukraine’s armed forces has claimed.

The Raptor-class patrol vessel was targeted by a laser-guided bomb dropped from a Ukraine-operated Bayraktar TB2 drone near Snake Island in the Black Sea on 8 May, the Ukrainian ministry of defence said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-destroys-putin-parade-boat-snake-island-b2075538.html

Raptor-class patrol boats:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor-class_patrol_boat

According to the wikipedia article, 5 have been destroyed so far, leaving Russia with only 3 remaining.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 01:41:43 pm
Ukraine stages alternative ‘parade’ of destroyed and captured Russian tanks to mark Victory Day

Ukrainian army says its parade is meant to ruin holiday for Russian occupiers

Shweta Sharma
May 10, 2022

As Vladimir Putin oversaw a Victory Day parade in Russia on Monday, Ukraine staged an alternative one, displaying destroyed and captured Russian equipment in an effort to mock Moscow.

The Ukrainian ministry of defence said in a tweet that the 93rd Mechanized Brigade of its army held a “parade of trophy Russian tanks” to ruin the holiday for the Russians. These tanks were captured from Russian troops amid the war in the eastern European country for the past 75 days.

In an apparent jibe, the ministry added: “Maybe aggressors think that by arming #UAarmy with Russian trophy equipment, it will affect the turn of NATO-style armament? New clever plan.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/victory-day-ukraine-russian-tanks-b2075305.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 10, 2022, 01:42:23 pm
As a famous Congressman once said, 'A hundred million here ... and a trillion dollars there, the next thing you know we are talking about serious money?'

Everett Dirkson.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 03:04:37 pm
Putin is preparing for a 'prolonged conflict' in Ukraine, Biden's top spy chief warns, and will grow 'more unpredictable' and 'escalatory' in his invasion

By EMILY GOODIN, SENIOR U.S. POLITICAL REPORTER
10 May 2022

Vladimir Putin is preparing for a 'prolonged' war in the Ukraine, President Joe Biden's spy chief warned on Tuesday, and he will grow more 'unpredictable' and 'escalatory' in his invasion.

U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines warned the fighting will grow worse and that Putin will expand his reach beyond the Donbass region in southeast Ukraine.

'The next month or two of fighting will be significant as the Russians attempt to reinvigorate their efforts,' Haines said in testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10801747/Putin-preparing-prolonged-conflict-Ukraine-Bidens-spy-chief-warns.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 03:05:03 pm
Putin is preparing for a 'prolonged conflict' in Ukraine, Biden's top spy chief warns, and will grow 'more unpredictable' and 'escalatory' in his invasion

By EMILY GOODIN, SENIOR U.S. POLITICAL REPORTER
10 May 2022

Vladimir Putin is preparing for a 'prolonged' war in the Ukraine, President Joe Biden's spy chief warned on Tuesday, and he will grow more 'unpredictable' and 'escalatory' in his invasion.

U.S. Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines warned the fighting will grow worse and that Putin will expand his reach beyond the Donbass region in southeast Ukraine.

'The next month or two of fighting will be significant as the Russians attempt to reinvigorate their efforts,' Haines said in testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10801747/Putin-preparing-prolonged-conflict-Ukraine-Bidens-spy-chief-warns.html

Unfortunately, it is up to the Russians themselves to shoot the rabid dog that is Putin.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 10, 2022, 03:57:16 pm
They're going to be prolonged broke then...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 10, 2022, 04:07:23 pm
Quote
They're going to be prolonged broke then...

Well that's how Reagan beat them before...he broke the Russian economy.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 10, 2022, 05:04:23 pm
Even Putin's media stooges are forced to admit Russia's invasion has stalled due to 'shameful' lack of equipment and reinforcements as Ukraine counter-strikes in the Donbas

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
10 May 2022

Putin's propagandists have begun openly criticising the state of Russia's military as even the Kremlin's most-hardened of supporters struggle to ignore the scope of its failings in Ukraine.

Vladimir Solovyov, one of Putin's most-prominent puppets, moaned last week about the 'shameful' length of time it takes for weapons to reach the front while guests on Russian state TV talk shows complained that men are being sent into battle 'with weapons of yesteryear' and the Russian economy cannot sustain the war.

Mikhail Khodaryonok, a retired Russia colonel, told viewers that even a much-feared general mobilisation of Russian forces would do little to turn the war in Moscow's favour because it lacks equipment and men to build new units. 'We don't have the reserves,' he told viewers.

Meanwhile Solovyov himself fumed that Russian troops are unable to get drones because so few are being produced, and even those that are made take too long to get into battle. 'Just try to bring something to the Donbas,' he said, 'it's easier to bring it in via Ukrainian customs in Lviv. They let any weapons through.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10800327/Ukraine-war-Russian-state-media-admits-shameful-military-failings.html

If a general mobilization would involve young men living in and around Moscow it might be the impetus for a call to end the invasion. It's one thing when the majority of troops that are dying and being wounded are from units that are from more remote areas it's another When units are from the most populated area of the country then it's hard to ignore.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 10, 2022, 05:08:55 pm
Quote
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

What strikes me the most when I see footage from Donetsk is how the people are... used to this. Everyone knows what to do when they hear artillery, "duck & cover", fire brigades move swiftly on muscle memory. 16-year-olds have lived half their lives like this.

7:13 AM · May 10, 2022·Twitter Web App

Yes, the people of Donetsk and Luhansk have gotten used to eight years of Russian shelling.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 10, 2022, 05:14:56 pm
Russia pounds vital port of Odesa, targeting supply lines

By ELENA BECATOROS and JON GAMBRELL
May 10, 2022

ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine (AP) — Russian troops pounded away at the vital port of Odesa, Ukrainian officials said Tuesday, apparently as part of efforts to disrupt the supply lines and weapons shipments that have been critical to Kyiv’s defense.

Ukraine’s ability to stymie a larger, better armed Russian military has surprised many observers, who had anticipated a much quicker conflict. With the war now in its 11th week and Kyiv bogging Russian forces down in many places and even staging a counteroffensive in others, Ukraine’s foreign minister appeared to suggest that the country could expand its aims beyond merely pushing Russia back to areas it or its allies held on the day of Feb. 24 invasion.

One of the most dramatic examples of Ukraine’s ability to deny Russia easy victories has been Mariupol, where Ukrainian fighters remain holed up at a steel plant despite a monthslong siege. The regiment defending the plant said Tuesday that Russian war planes continued pounding it.

*  *  *

Source:  https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-business-nato-moscow-c8e00f7bbc4f24aa40d70a4ac2d97adb

Good!

If Ukraine can cripple Russia it would be a gift to the world in so many ways. China, North Korea, Iran all have to be looking at Russia's war on Ukraine and rethinking some of their plans of conquest. Also, if Russia can be forced out of all of Ukraine they will not only be in no position to try it again but other countries they currently dominate may think twice about their relationship with Russia. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 10, 2022, 05:16:24 pm
"Donetsk People's Republic leader holds Victory Day Parade in Mariupol"  (Video)

DPR leader Denis Pushilin giving an award to a DPR soldier wearing Nazi Waffen SS Totenkopf insignia.

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/6go_qfbsJXxHVyjrc7aykg--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTcwNTtoPTQ4OQ--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/L8ltIQOWq7Lm12NIuDE2Kg--~B/aD03Mzc7dz0xMDYzO2FwcGlkPXl0YWNoeW9u/https://media.zenfs.com/en/business_insider_articles_888/31d4348bbc886aafa258ecbaff257751)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 10, 2022, 05:27:52 pm
Yes, the people of Donetsk and Luhansk have gotten used to eight years of Russian shelling.

Just a side note to the "shelling of Civilians" by Ukrainians. I realize that one of my worst qualities is I tend to respond to people the way they treat me. I don't condone killing innocent civilians, but with all the atrocities that the Russians have committed I can see how the bloodlust of Ukrainians could get the better of them. If any shelling has occurred I'm pretty confident it's without the approval of Ukraine's military leadership.

Ukraine's military leadership has been very smart. Along with their political leadership they have been able to inspire the free world to rally around them and support them. I think it's safe to assume that they are smart enough to realize that if they start committing atrocities like the Russians they will begin losing the support they need.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 06:26:51 pm
Putin strips FSB of Ukraine intelligence-gathering role and hands responsibility to GRU arm led by man 'who orchestrated Salisbury poisoning'

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
10 May 2022

The military intelligence officer believed to have orchestrated the 2018 poisoning of former Russian agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury has now been tasked with leading Russia's intelligence operation in Ukraine.   

Vladimir Alekseev, a leading officer of a heavily militarised branch of the GRU - Russia's military intelligence directorate, has now assumed command of Russia's spy operations in Ukraine after Putin reportedly dropped the FSB - Russia's domestic intelligence service - from its role following the disastrous start to the war.

The strategic change represents a significant shift in the leadership of Moscow's 'special military operation', and was publicly acknowledged for the first time last week when the pro-Putin Tsargrad TV channel identified Alekseev as the top spy general overseeing intelligence operations.

Lieutenant General Alekseev, who is Ukrainian-born, was a former Spetsnaz special forces operative and has a reputation for brutality during Russian military action in Syria and the Donbas region, according to Center for European Policy Analysis (CEPA) senior fellows Irina Borogan and Andrei Soldatov.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10801811/Putin-cuts-FSB-lead-intelligence-role-Ukraine-man-orchestrated-Salisbury-poisoning.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 06:28:41 pm
New footage shows Ukrainians blowing up Russia's most-advanced £4million tank 'with a Swedish rocket launcher that costs £18,000'

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
10 May 2022

New footage has emerged showing Russia's most expensive and up-to-date tank getting destroyed by Ukrainian forces during fighting in Donbas.

Drone footage, issued by Ukraine's Ministry of Defence today, shows the T-90M - a £4million latest-generation war machine - exploding after being hit during the battle for Stary Saltiv, to the north of Kharkiv, last week.

More footage then shows what appears to be the burned-out husk of the same tank, with a large hole through the tracks on its right side and evidence of an explosion at the rear with its armour plating bent outwards.

The Ukrainian MoD claimed the tank was taken out by a Carl Gustaf recoilless rifle - a Swedish-made rocket launcher that costs around £18,500, including the rocket.

'The pride of the Russian tank industry was destroyed by the Swedish hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher Carl Gustaf,' the ministry said in a tweet.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10801589/Ukraine-war-New-footage-shows-Russias-latest-gen-T-90M-tank-destroyed.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 06:30:09 pm
Putin scrapped Victory Day flypast at the last minute 'because he feared a strike from the air' anti-Vladimir Russian news outlet claims

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
10 May 2022

Vladimir Putin scrapped his Victory Day flypast at the last minute because 'he was afraid of an aerial strike', it has been claimed.

The military parade was scheduled to include 77 planes in the display of military might over Moscow's Red Square yesterday.

Among the planes were his 'Doomsday' Ilyushin Il-80 which allows the Kremlin leader to continue ruling Russia during a nuclear war.

But Putin pulled the plug on the flypast abruptly before the parade, blaming poor weather.

Airshows were also aborted or curtailed in at least ten other cities.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10801789/Putin-scrapped-Victory-Day-flypast-minute-feared-strike-air.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 10, 2022, 08:06:10 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

A shopping mall on the outskirts of Odessa is reported to be on fire after a missile strike. No information yet what the target was. "Patriotic" business owners have been offering up their businesses to the AFU (& sometimes they don't ask) - maybe we'll see

4:32 PM · May 9, 2022·Twitter for Android


"it does sound/look like something exploded after the missile hit"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1523781986116333570
Virtually any aerosol can has isobutane as the propellant. Isobutane is just slightly structurally different from Normal Butane, with the same chemical formula (C4H10). It burns, and with heat and or pressure the cans rupture and ignite. In other words, hit the average drug store, beauty salon, paint, or hardware store with a rocket with an explosive warhead and there will be plenty of fuel and loads of things popping off in the fire.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 08:40:39 pm
Virtually any aerosol can has isobutane as the propellant. Isobutane is just slightly structurally different from Normal Butane, with the same chemical formula (C4H10). It burns, and with heat and or pressure the cans rupture and ignite. In other words, hit the average drug store, beauty salon, paint, or hardware store with a rocket with an explosive warhead and there will be plenty of fuel and loads of things popping off in the fire.


OMG!!!

The Ukrainian bastards are hiding extra supplies of hairspray for the Ukraine army - how dare they keep their boyish good looks (and locks) while fighting the divine Russian army.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 10, 2022, 08:42:49 pm

OMG!!!

The Ukrainian bastards are hiding extra supplies of hairspray for the Ukraine army - how dare they keep their boyish good looks (and locks) while fighting the divine Russian army.
It might have just been shaving cream... :shrug: (Helps the gas masks seal to be clean shaven--which is why wearing the covid masks over a full beard was an absolute farce.)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 10, 2022, 08:48:24 pm
It might have just been shaving cream... :shrug: (Helps the gas masks seal to be clean shaven--which is why wearing the covid masks over a full beard was an absolute farce.)

That too!!!  How dare they appear clean-shaven and guapo in the midst of the Holy Russian liberation!

Gas masks - that was the reason for Hitler's little chopped off toothbrush of a mustache, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 10, 2022, 08:51:05 pm
That too!!!  How dare they appear clean-shaven and guapo in the midst of the Holy Russian liberation!

Gas masks - that was the reason for Hitler's little chopped off toothbrush of a mustache, if I recall correctly.
Out in the patch where you might be required to mask up, the limit of the moustache used to be at the edges of your mouth. Same rules when I was a fireman. It's pretty relaxed up here any more (the Bakken has proven to be Sweet throughout, so no masks on the drilling rigs any more).
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 09:01:25 pm
A little more on the situation .....

Quote
FIGHTING IN AZOVSTAL CONTINUES. UKRAINIAN MILITANTS BEG FOR EVACUATION (VIDEOS, PHOTOS)
May 9, 2022

On May 9, shelling on the Azovstal facilities continued in the city of Mariupol. After humanitarian corridors in Mariupol were closed, the artillery of the DPR People’s Militia, supported by the Russian Aerospace Forces (VKS), are destroying the fortified areas of nationalist militants in Azovstal.

According to Azov militants, over the past day, 34 aircraft flights, including 8 sorties of strategic bombers, were carried out on the territory of the Azovstal plant. Russian naval and conventional artillery continue shelling of Azov military positions.

On May 9, battles were reported near the railway bridge on the north-eastern outskirts of the Azovstal plant

More than 1,000 Ukrainian soldiers are currently at the Azovstal plant, hundreds of them are wounded, according to Deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk.

The deputy commander of the Azov regiment Svyatoslav Palamar (nickname Kalina) recently gave an interview to the BBC, that Ukrainian forces are suffering significant losses, counted in thousands of servicemen. The Azov militants reportedly have about 600 wounded. Many of the injured are dying due to the lack of medicines. Palamar also accused the Ukrainian command that it actually left the militants at Azovstal dying.

More w/video, photos:  https://southfront.org/fighting-in-azovstal-continues-ukrainian-militants-beg-for-evacuation-videos-photos/

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 09:13:50 pm
If you gave him a thousand billion dollars today, tomorrow he will say he needs 100,000 thousand billion dollars. There is no end to it. And as long as Congress gets their "Big Guy 10% kickback", they will keep feeding him.

$600, 000, 000, 000 is 600 thousand million dollars.
But why stop there? Let's give him ...
$100, 000, 000, 000, 000 a hundred trillion dollars.
Hell man, lets give him a million trillion dollars?
It is all Monopoly Money anyway ...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSasSSgXwAEY3fw?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 10, 2022, 09:41:02 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

What's with this "us stuff",bubba?

Is Lady Lindsey now saying she is going to "suit up" and go to war?

Doubt it @sneakypete

This jackass calling for a no fly zone and the assassination of a foreign leader was an AF JAG officer ....... **nononono*
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 11, 2022, 12:22:06 am
Bodies of 44 civilians found as battle for Izyum rages

Sophie Williams & Olga Pona  -  BBC, Lviv  |  8 hours ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/FC90/production/_124665646_21178fff-a411-4354-a6eb-1ae2c3b24782.jpg)
The city's mayor has confirmed that the bodies of 44 civilians were pulled from the rubble

Bodies of 44 civilians have been found in the rubble of a collapsed building in the Ukrainian city of Izyum as the battle for control of the area rages.

The five-storey building collapsed in March as residents hid in the basement from Russian shelling.

But rescuers have only just been able to reach the building, one local official told the BBC.

And there are fears the death toll could rise further, as another building in the same street was also targeted.

"We know there were people in there as well. The search work is continuing and I think we will know more numbers of victims soon," Izyum mayor Valeriy Marchenko told the BBC.

Russia seized control of Izyum on 1 April and troops have occupied the city since.

Mr Marchenko said when the buildings were attacked, Russian troops had seized control of half of the city.

As troops tried to advance, they fired directly at the building where the bodies have now been retrieved.

Rescuers only been able to reach it now because the apartment block was in an occupied area of the city.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61396800
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 11, 2022, 12:33:24 am
Russian offensive in Donbas expected to peak in coming weeks and Putin's options 'don't look terribly good'

Russia is focusing on "liberating" the eastern Donbas region as part of its "special military operation" after withdrawing from the north of Ukraine earlier in the war following stiff Ukrainian resistance.

10 May 2022 23:20, UK

The Russian offensive in the breakaway Donbas region of eastern Ukraine is "building" and is expected to peak in the next two to three weeks, according to Sky's defence analyst Michael Clarke.


He also said what happens between now and the end of this month will determine how much room for manoeuvre President Vladimir Putin has and what his military options are in the invasion - as so far "they don't look terribly good".

It comes as dozens of bodies have been found in a five-storey building which collapsed in March in Izyum, about 75 miles from the second biggest city, Kharkiv, according to the head of the regional administration, Oleh Synehubov.

Professor Clarke said that Mr Putin is starting to realise that his options are getting "rather limited" because in Monday's Victory Day speech in Moscow "he didn't say anything about what else the war might achieve".

The analyst said the Russian leader was "quite conservative about defending what his forces have already taken in the Donbas and Crimea, and in the land bridge in between".  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russian-offensive-in-donbas-expected-to-peak-in-coming-weeks-and-putins-options-dont-look-terribly-good-12610029
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 11, 2022, 12:51:17 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSZcb3ZWQAEJ-ra?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 11, 2022, 01:28:30 am
Al Jazeera shows refrigerated train filled with unclaimed bodies of Russian soldiers

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3479612-al-jazeera-shows-refrigerated-train-filled-with-unclaimed-bodies-of-russian-soldiers.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3479612-al-jazeera-shows-refrigerated-train-filled-with-unclaimed-bodies-of-russian-soldiers.html)

Quote
Qatar's Al Jazeera English, a 24-hour English-language TV channel, has reported on refrigerated trains filled with the bodies of Russian servicemen killed during the ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

According to Ukrinform, this is stated in the Al Jazeera English report on its YouTube channel.

"The real toll of this war for Russia – unclaimed body bags stacked in refrigerated trains,"  says the report by Al Jazeera English.

It is noted that in one bag carrying the body of an elite Russian military serviceman, jewelry was found, allegedly stolen from Ukrainian civilians in Kyiv region.
Read also: Some 44 civilian bodies found under rubble in Kharkiv Region’s Izium

"Ukraine treats the dead enemies better than they treated civilians. They will be kept as long as need be. The government will decide because Russia refuses to take them. It doesn’t want to. Each body is proof of a war crime. So if they refuse to take them, Ukraine will bury them at our own cost," said Ukraine Army Colonel Volodymyr Liamzin.

Officially, Russia claims only 1,300 KIAs in Ukraine, while the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine says Russian death toll has exceeded 26,000.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 11, 2022, 03:51:49 am


Quote
Officially, Russia claims only 1,300 KIAs in Ukraine, while the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine says Russian death toll has exceeded 26,000.


@Elderberry

Yeah,not buying it. The first rule,even for propaganda ministers,is "when you tell a lie,make it believable."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 11, 2022, 11:37:43 am
Out in the patch where you might be required to mask up, the limit of the moustache used to be at the edges of your mouth. Same rules when I was a fireman. It's pretty relaxed up here any more (the Bakken has proven to be Sweet throughout, so no masks on the drilling rigs any more).

H2S is no joke.  During the brief time I worked for my dad before I went back active duty I had to take a safety class on it.

My thought at the time was that it would make a great chemical weapon for the military.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 11, 2022, 12:46:40 pm
Russian Troops Retreat From Ukraine to Russia: Planned Redeployment or the Beginning of Collapse?

By streiff
May 10, 2022

Over the last week, the Russian position north of Kharkiv has collapsed. There are two explanations, and both involve an endgame for Putin’s War.

Most commentary on military operations over the last week has focused on what is assumed to be the center of gravity of the Russian campaign in Ukraine, Donbas, and the siege of Mariupol. However, in my opinion, the real activity to watch has been occurring on the Ukraine-Russia border. Kharkiv had been under daily artillery and rocket fire, destroying most of it.

*  *  *

However, you can see a significant shift in positions northeast of Kharkiv over the last week. My tweet below gives a side-by-side view of the front line today and one week ago.

https://twitter.com/streiffredstate/status/1524120123086360576

The Ukrainian counteroffensive has pushed Russian artillery out of range of Kharkiv, but the big news is that, in advance, that covered 40 kilometers, Ukrainian troops have reached the border with Russia, and Russian troops seem to be withdrawing from that area of operations back into Russia.

https://twitter.com/Nrg8000/status/1524113813024690176

*  *  *

Source:  https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/05/10/russian-troops-retreat-from-ukraine-to-russia-planned-redeployment-or-the-beginning-of-collapse-n562608
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 11, 2022, 12:52:02 pm
Russia privately admits its economy is facing biggest collapse in three decades as a result of Western sanctions in leaked Kremlin forecast

By RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE
11 May 2022

Russia has privately admitted the country is facing the biggest economic collapse in three decades as a result of crippling Western sanctions, a leaked copy of the Kremlin's forecast shows.

The Russian Finance Ministry is predicting a 12 per cent collapse in gross domestic product (GDP) this year, the deepest economic contraction since 1994 when Russia was lurching towards capitalism under President Boris Yeltsin.

The leaked forecast will put pressure on Vladimir Putin, who is facing criticism from Kremlin officials who warn of the damaging political and economic cost of his war plan.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10804587/Russia-privately-admits-economy-facing-biggest-collapse-30-years-Western-sanctions.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 11, 2022, 01:45:54 pm
Ukraine war: Russia pushed back in north-east - report from front line

By Quentin Sommerville
BBC News, Kharkiv
May 11, 2022

Ukraine says its forces have recaptured villages from Russian troops north and north-east of Kharkiv, pushing them back towards the border. The ongoing offensive could signal a shift in the war's momentum and jeopardise Russia's main advance further south. BBC correspondent Quentin Sommerville, and cameraman Darren Conway, have been with Ukrainian forces as they advance.

The village of Ruska Lozova stands at the centre of the turn in Ukraine's response to Russian aggression.

It was recently liberated in a co-ordinated effort led by senior military commanders. Ukrainian troops from territorial defence, the national guard, and the regular army are seeking to push the Russians back along a 32-km (20-mile) front line. In the Russian city of Belgorod, just across the border, troops have amassed for a likely counter-offensive.

We drove north from the city of Kharkhiv with Ukrainian forces. Russian shells continued to hit the village.

With no power or water, little food, and neither phone or internet, its residents had been isolated from Ukraine's second-largest city - just 8km (5 miles) south. From the woods and hills nearby, Russian mortars and artillery shelled Kharkiv relentlessly.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61378196
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 11, 2022, 03:10:49 pm
With no power or water, little food, and neither phone or internet, its residents had been isolated from Ukraine's second-largest city - just 8km (5 miles) south. From the woods and hills nearby, Russian mortars and artillery shelled Kharkiv relentlessly.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61378196


Facts on the ground are quite a contrast against the Russian propaganda that is being peddled.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 11, 2022, 03:13:48 pm
Facts on the ground are quite a contrast against the Russian propaganda that is being peddled.

@Hoodat

The sad,sad truth is that during wartime,you can never believe anything either side says. Yes,one side WILL lie more than the other because they happen to be losing at that time and NO government can admit they are losing a war and stay in power.

The plain fact is telling lies is a psychological warfare ploy and one more method to help win a war. That's why everybody does it.

Just one more tool in the bag of tricks.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 11, 2022, 03:20:26 pm
Any Russian that admits anything - publicly or privately - will have an unfortunate encounter with a poison toad.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 11, 2022, 04:41:07 pm
@Hoodat

The sad,sad truth is that during wartime,you can never believe anything either side says. Yes,one side WILL lie more than the other because they happen to be losing at that time and NO government can admit they are losing a war and stay in power.

The plain fact is telling lies is a psychological warfare ploy and one more method to help win a war. That's why everybody does it.

Just one more tool in the bag of tricks.

Except that now, a lot of claims can be sanity-checked through satellite imagery.  Disabled/damaged Russian tanks can be counted, more or less, from orbit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: GtHawk on May 11, 2022, 04:44:57 pm
Well that's how Reagan beat them before...he broke the Russian economy.
Exactly, and it worked so well for Reagan that Biden is using the same plan against America.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 11, 2022, 05:53:45 pm
Exactly, and it worked so well for Reagan that Biden is using the same plan against America.

Good point.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 11, 2022, 06:03:50 pm
Ukraine tries its first Russian soldier for alleged war crimes

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098242940/ukraine-russia-war-crimes-trial (https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098242940/ukraine-russia-war-crimes-trial)

Quote
The office of Ukraine's prosecutor general announced on Wednesday that it is opening its first war crimes trial, in the case of a Russian soldier accused of killing a civilian.

Prosecutor General Iryna Venediktova, writing on Facebook, identified the soldier as 21-year-old Vadim Shishimarin — a member of the elite 4th Guards Tank Division — and said he is currently in custody. The events in question took place Feb. 28 in Chupakhivka, a village in the Sumy region about 180 miles east of Kyiv.

A pretrial investigation found that Shishimarin and four colleagues, fleeing an attack by Ukrainian defense forces, fired at and seized a private car, which they used to drive into the village. On the way, they saw a man talking on a phone while walking his bicycle along the sidewalk.

Venediktova said that one of the other soldiers ordered Shishimarin to kill the civilian "so he would not report them to Ukrainian defenders." Investigators say Shishimarin fired his Kalashnikov several times through the car window, shooting the unarmed 62-year-old in the head.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 11, 2022, 06:09:51 pm
Putin humiliated as satellite pics show tanks wiped out in brutal massacre

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1608434/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-invasion-war-FSB-latest-update (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1608434/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-invasion-war-FSB-latest-update)

Quote
VLADIMIR PUTIN'S troops have been wiped out by Ukrainian forces in an attempt to cross the Seversky Donets river.

(https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/78/590x/Ukraine-LIVE-Putin-humiliated-as-satellite-pics-show-tanks-wiped-out-in-brutal-massacre-1608434.webp?r=1652290718691)

Satellite images show tanks destroyed and abandoned on the river bed following the failed crossing.

The latest figures from Ukraine's Armed Forces claim Russia has close 26,350 troops and around 1,187 tanks.

It comes as Ukrainian forces reportedly made battlefield gains with president Volodymyr Zelensky saying troops pushed Russian troops out of four villages near Kharkiv.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 11, 2022, 06:10:04 pm
Whatever prideful image Russians had of themselves is dead. They've become the North Koreans of Europe.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 11, 2022, 06:12:39 pm
Putin humiliated as satellite pics show tanks wiped out in brutal massacre

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1608434/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-invasion-war-FSB-latest-update (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1608434/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-invasion-war-FSB-latest-update)

Russia wasn't prepared for a counter response with modern weapons. Tanks are just metal coffins.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 11, 2022, 06:15:45 pm
Ukraine shuts off Russian pipeline amid talk of annexation

https://tucson.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/ukraine-shuts-off-russian-pipeline-amid-talk-of-annexation/article_baeb67cd-c1ed-508c-8a09-67506fba8d9a.html (https://tucson.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/ukraine-shuts-off-russian-pipeline-amid-talk-of-annexation/article_baeb67cd-c1ed-508c-8a09-67506fba8d9a.html)

Quote
Ukraine stopped the flow of Russian natural gas through one hub that feeds European homes and industry

ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine (AP) — Ukraine shut down a pipeline Wednesday that carries Russian natural gas to homes and industries in Western Europe, while a Kremlin-installed official in a southern region seized by Russian troops said the area will ask Moscow to annex it.

The immediate effect of the energy cutoff is likely to be limited, in part because Russia can divert the gas to another pipeline and because Europe relies on a variety of suppliers. But it marked the first time since the start of the war that Ukraine disrupted the flow westward of one of Moscow's most lucrative exports.

Meanwhile, the talk of annexation in Kherson — and Russia's apparent willingness to consider such a request — raised the possibility that the Kremlin will seek to break off another piece of Ukraine as it tries to salvage an invasion gone awry. Russia annexed Ukraine's Crimean Peninsula in 2014.

“The city of Kherson is Russia,” Kirill Stremousov, deputy head of the Kherson regional administration installed by Moscow, told Russia’s RIA Novosti news agency. He said regional officials want Russian President Vladimir Putin to make Kherson a “proper region” of Russia.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said that it would be “up to the residents of the Kherson region" to make such a request, and that any move to annex territory would would have to be closely evaluated by experts to make sure its legal basis is “absolutely clear.”

Russia has repeatedly used annexation or recognition of breakaway republics as tactics in recent years to gain pieces of fellow former Soviet republics Ukraine and Georgia. Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 after holding a referendum on the peninsula over whether it wanted to become part of Russia.

Kherson, a Black Sea port of roughly 300,000, provides access to fresh water for neighboring Crimea and is seen a gateway to wider Russian control over southern Ukraine. It was captured early in the war, becoming Ukraine's first major city to fall.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 11, 2022, 06:25:31 pm
Elon Musk says Russia has stepped up efforts to jam SpaceX's Starlink in Ukraine

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-spacex-russia-ramps-up-efforts-jam-starlink-ukraine-2022-5 (https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-spacex-russia-ramps-up-efforts-jam-starlink-ukraine-2022-5)

Quote
•   Russia has ramped up efforts to hack SpaceX's Starlink internet in Ukraine, Elon Musk said.

•   So far, Starlink has managed to resist Russia's attempts to hack the technology, Musk said.

•   Starlink's satellite network has helped Ukrainians to stay online during the war.

Elon Musk said on Tuesday that Russia has increased its efforts to jam SpaceX's Starlink satellite internet in Ukraine, but hasn't succeeded.

"Starlink has resisted Russian cyberwar jamming & hacking attempts so far, but they're ramping up their efforts," Musk tweeted.

The SpaceX CEO linked a Reuters article, published on Tuesday, which reported that Russia carried out a cyberattack against satellite
broadband
provider Viasat on the day in February when President Vladimir Putin's troops advanced into Ukraine, according to Western officials.

The UK government said in a press release on Tuesday that the hack left thousands of Viasat users without internet connection, affecting people across Ukraine and other EU member countries. It was the most public cyberattack since Russia began its war on Ukraine, Reuters reported.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 11, 2022, 06:57:28 pm
bleep Riot singer flees Russia while under house arrest for activism - by disguising herself as a food courier

By WALTER FINCH FOR MAILONLINE
11 May 2022

A member of the notorious Russian activist band bleep Riot had to flee Moscow in the guise of a food courier after Vladimir Putin started to crack down hard on their brand of dissent.

Maria Alyokhina was facing 21 days in a penal colony once she had finished another stint under house arrest for her latest act of rebellion in criticising Putin's war in Ukraine.

The bleep Riot leader decided it was better to leave her home country than get lost in the Russian penal colony system and came up with a bold and ingenious disguise.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10804787/bleep-Riot-singer-flees-Russia-house-arrest-disguising-food-courier.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 11, 2022, 09:41:03 pm
Except that now, a lot of claims can be sanity-checked through satellite imagery.  Disabled/damaged Russian tanks can be counted, more or less, from orbit.

@Kamaji

True,but the inverse is what CAN'T be seen on satellites can not be proven to be untrue. Wild claims can still be made,and there is no way to refute them
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 11, 2022, 09:47:52 pm
Russia is so poor it’s taping gear to fighter jets, UK defense chief says

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/05/russia-is-so-poor-its-taping-gear-to-fighter-jets-uk-defense-chief-says/ (https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/05/russia-is-so-poor-its-taping-gear-to-fighter-jets-uk-defense-chief-says/)

Quote
The navigational equipment Russian air forces have relied on during their invasion of Ukraine is of such poor quality that some Russian fighter jets have resorted to taping basic Global Positioning System (GPS) devices to their dashboards so they know where they actually are, according to British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace this week.

In a speech at the National Army Museum in London on Monday, Wallace said Russian forces invading Ukraine have been hindered by inadequate equipment and support.

“Almost none of their vehicles contain situational awareness and digital battle management,” Wallace said. “Vehicles are frequently found with 1980s paper maps of Ukraine in them.”

“But it’s not just ground forces,” Wallace continued. “‘GPS’ receivers have been found taped to the dashboards of downed Russian SU-34s so the pilots knew where they were, due to the poor quality of their own systems.”

Wallace didn’t specify how many instances there had been of downed Russian aircraft being found with basic GPS devices on board. On Saturday, a Twitter shared images purporting to show a commercial GPS device c-clamped inside a Russian Su-34.

Patrick S. Tomlinson
@stealthygeek

I can't believe this. You're looking at the cockpit of a Russian Su-34 fighter/bomber. It entered service in 2014 as one of the most modern planes in their inventory and is flying against #Ukraine.

See the little box? It's a commercial GPS just C-clamped to the dash.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FNQfH2kXoAQRch6?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 11, 2022, 10:49:59 pm
May 11, 2022 3:08pm EDT
Russia has signaled intent to end 'current phase' of invasion, cut losses with Kherson referendum: expert
Russia appears to desire control of the Dnieper River, which bisects Ukraine
By Peter Aitken | Fox News

    Russia has potentially signaled intent to end the invasion of Ukraine and integrate the Kherson region, an intelligence expert told Fox News Digital.

Putin’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov told journalists that "residents of Kherson must decide for themselves" whether they will "appeal" for "integration of the region into the Russian territory," according to TASS.

Peskov refused to be drawn on the possibility of a referendum, saying he "stated what I wanted to state," but former DIA officer Rebekah Koffler argued that Moscow will proceed with a referendum to provide "legal justification" for Russia to integrate Kherson.

"This is standard Russian statecraft," Koffler explained. "In 2014, 95.5% of Crimean residents voted for joining Russia."

But Koffler, author of  "Putin’s Playbook: Russia’s Secret Plan to Defeat America," further believes that integrating Kherson would be enough for Putin to say he achieved his goal for the current phase of the invasion, which Moscow has continued to call a "special operation" in Ukraine.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-current-phase-invasion-cut-losses-kherson-referendum
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 11, 2022, 11:02:13 pm
Haven't they already killed or run out anyone who would "vote" wrong?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 11, 2022, 11:50:48 pm
 pointing-down

Gaetz: "Just a year ago, we lost a war against goat herders waving rifles. Members of Congress are now recklessly asserting that we are at war with Russia.   If we are at war, then why not vote on an AUMF?   We are sleepwalking into a war, and the American people are left in the dark."  (Video)

https://rumble.com/embed/v11q2m3/?pub=4
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 12, 2022, 12:12:33 am
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Steny Hoyer, the House Majority Leader, said Biden wanted the $40 billion funding bill to "provide Ukraine with the type of arms it needs to shift from defensive to offensive operations." They're now openly admitting that the US is orchestrating an "offensive" war against Russia

10:39 AM · May 11, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 12, 2022, 12:17:43 am
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

DNI Director Avril Haines said yesterday: "We have, in fact, more insight probably on the Russian side than we do on the Ukrainian side." Strange that there's such astonishingly little "insight" into the "side" that the US continues to heap with an endless supply of heavy weapons

4:59 PM · May 11, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 12, 2022, 02:48:07 am
H2S is no joke.  During the brief time I worked for my dad before I went back active duty I had to take a safety class on it.

My thought at the time was that it would make a great chemical weapon for the military.

I take it seriously. The highest concentration I have been in (without a mask) was 110 PPM, and I left, heading upwind quick and notified the other hands on location.

I know guys who have been knocked down One got a heavy lungful from an open hatch while strapping a 400 bbl upright tank and rolled backward off the tank. He landed flat on his back after about a 30' drop, which was credited with saving his life (The impact blew the H2S out of his lungs and likely restarted his heart when he hit). He had coal black hair before that incident, a white streak a couple inches wide in it after. He was the lucky one.

500 PPM will put you down in one breath.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 12, 2022, 03:19:11 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/axBmAQ2_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 03:23:18 am
I take it seriously. The highest concentration I have been in (without a mask) was 110 PPM, and I left, heading upwind quick and notified the other hands on location.

I know guys who have been knocked down One got a heavy lungful from an open hatch while strapping a 400 bbl upright tank and rolled backward off the tank. He landed flat on his back after about a 30' drop, which was credited with saving his life (The impact blew the H2S out of his lungs and likely restarted his heart when he hit). He had coal black hair before that incident, a white streak a couple inches wide in it after. He was the lucky one.

500 PPM will put you down in one breath.

One time at a refinery, there were four workers working outside on a pipe that was supposed to have been blown out.  One guy was in the pit disconnecting a flange while the other three looked on from above.  The guy in the pit was loosening a bolt when suddenly he reversed direction for a turn before promptly losing consciousness from H2S leakage.  The other three workers immediately jumped into the pit rescuing him and pulling him up to safety.

The next day, there was a plant-wide safety meeting.  The three workers were admonished for breaking protocol by jumping into the pit.  Their safety training dictated for them to go get help, and let someone with the proper PPE to go into the pit.  This incident could have easily resulted in four dead workers.  But the guy they rescued was damn glad they jumped in to save his life.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 04:44:05 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSdnO2NXMAACvot?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 04:50:01 am
Ukraine’s Counteroffensive Has Broken Russia’s Siege Of Kharkiv

Michael Peck  |  May 11, 2022,10:45pm EDT


Ukraine’s counteroffensive may have broken Russia’s siege of the strategic city of Kharkiv, in northeast Ukraine.

If true – and if Ukrainian troops can maintain their momentum – then this could outflank and threaten the main Russian offensive in the south. While premature to claim that this is a turning point in the war, it would force the Russian high command to divert forces northwards, and to juggle fighting on multiple fronts.

“The Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City has forced Russian troops onto the defensive and has successfully alleviated artillery pressure on Kharkiv City,” according to the Institute for the Study of War, a Washington-based thinktank that closely monitors the war.

“The Ukrainian counteroffensive north of Kharkiv City has forced Russian troops onto the defensive and necessitated reinforcement and replenishment efforts intended to prevent further Ukrainian advances towards the Russian border,” ISW said. Analysts pointed to an announcement by local Kharkiv officials that “artillery pressure against the northeastern suburbs of Kharkiv City has been alleviated, indicating Ukrainian forces have successfully driven Russian forces largely out of artillery range of Kharkiv City.”

The Ukrainian Army has been counterattacking around Kharkiv for about two weeks. On May 9, Pentagon officials said that Russian troops had been pushed back almost 45 kilometers (28 miles) to the east of the city.  .  .

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2022/05/11/ukraines-counteroffensive-has-broken-russias-siege-of-kharkiv/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 12, 2022, 10:52:14 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSdnO2NXMAACvot?format=jpg&name=medium)

LOL!  I stopped at "liquidated personnel". Such bullsh*t.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 12, 2022, 10:57:47 am
LOL!  I stopped at "liquidated personnel". Such bullsh*t.

Thread just above had a title "107K Overdoses in U.S. in 2021. Wonder how many could be prevented in 2022-2025 if zellinnnnski's $40B been apporopriated for that?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 12, 2022, 12:00:30 pm
Ukraine makes headway in retaking areas outside Kharkiv after string of victories

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
May 11, 2022

Ukrainian troops Wednesday retook the town of Pytomnyk outside Kharkiv in the northeastern part of the country, the latest in a string of victories that has put Ukrainian troops within miles of the Russian border.

The liberation of Pytomnyk, a town some 15 miles from the Russian border, comes a day after Ukrainian authorities announced the recapture of four other villages outside of Kharkiv.

The combined counterassaults have effectively pushed Russian artillery out of range of Ukraine’s second-largest city, and simultaneously put pressure on Russia’s border and supply lines.

“We are having successes in the Kharkiv direction, where we are steadily pushing back the enemy and liberating population centers,” Brigadier General Oleksiy Hromov, Deputy Chief of the Main Operations Directorate of Ukraine’s General Staff, said Wednesday.

Ukraine has also taken the fight back to Snake Island — the Black Sea base which was taken in the opening act of the war, in which Ukrainian troops famously told the Russian cruiser Moskva to “go f–k [it]self.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/11/ukraine-makes-headway-in-retaking-areas-outside-kharkiv/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 12, 2022, 12:11:21 pm
Ukraine accused of deadly cross-border attack on Russian village

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/12/ukraine-accused-of-deadly-cross-border-attack-on-russian-village (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/12/ukraine-accused-of-deadly-cross-border-attack-on-russian-village)

Quote
If confirmed, it would mark the first time a Russian has been killed inside the country by Ukraine shelling since Moscow’s invasion in February.

One person was killed and seven were wounded in a Russian village bordering Ukraine in what may be the first death of a Russian civilian inside the country since Moscow launched the war.

Governor Vyacheslav Gladkov of Russia’s Belgorod province said on Thursday the attack by Ukraine forces occurred in the village of Solokhi.

The village came under shelling from the Ukrainian side late Wednesday, and residents were later evacuated “to a safe place”, Gladkov said. With a population of 638, Solokhi lies 20km (12 miles) north of the Ukrainian region of Kharkiv.

“Seven wounded, another victim was brought late at night. Everyone is provided with qualified medical care, medicines are available in full. One person died. We will provide material assistance to all the victims and the family of the deceased,” Gladkov said on his Telegram channel.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 12, 2022, 12:19:55 pm
Ukrainian fighters holed up in Mariupol steel plant beg for injured to be evacuated

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
May 11, 2022

Ukrainian fighters who have been holed up in Mariupol’s Azovstal steel plant for weeks issued a desperate plea for help, calling on the international community to evacuate those injured in the near-constant shelling.

Defenders from the Azov Regiment, a nationalist militia that is part of Ukraine’s national guard, said on Telegram Wednesday that the plant had been the target of 38 air strikes in 24 hours.

The plant’s defenders also said Russian troops continued to try to take the sprawling plant by force Wednesday.

The post came a day after the regiment shared photos of injured fighters, some with missing arms or legs, as they wait for help in the besieged city.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/11/fighters-holed-up-in-mariupol-steel-plant-beg-for-help/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 12:28:33 pm
LOL!  I stopped at "liquidated personnel". Such bullsh*t.

So what's your estimate of what that number really is, @DCPatriot ?  According to Russia, they haven't lost a single soldier in two months.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 12, 2022, 12:30:01 pm
Putin's latest battlefield humiliation: Ukraine thwarts Russian battalion's river-crossing and destroys at least 58 vehicles inflicting heavy casualties as Donbas offensive stalls and Kyiv's troops counter-attack

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
12 May 2022

Russia has suffered yet another battlefield humiliation after Ukraine successfully thwarted its attempt to cross a river in Donbas, destroying dozens of vehicles and inflicting heavy casualties.

Satellite images lay bare the scale of the failure with the remains of two pontoon bridges drifting in the Donets River at Bilohorivka, west of the city of Lysychansk, surrounded by the ruins of tanks and armoured vehicles.

It appears Russian commanders were attempting to surround Lysychansk - and its sister city of Severodonetsk - with the crossing, but saw their sneak-attack turn into a massacre when Ukraine correctly guessed their plans.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10808475/Ukraine-war-Russia-suffers-heavy-losses-failed-Donbas-river-crossing.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 12:31:48 pm
Finland to apply for Nato membership 'without delay'

1 hour ago

Finland's president and prime minister have called for the country to apply for Nato membership "without delay".


Sauli Niinisto and Sanna Marin said in a joint statement they expected a decision in the next few days.

The move comes amid a surge in public support for Nato membership following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Moscow said Finland's move was a threat to Russia and the further expansion of Nato would make Europe less stable and secure.

Previously, Russia has threatened unspecified measures - and on this occasion too, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov did not say exactly how Russia would respond.

"Everything will depend on how this expansion process plays out, the extent to which military infrastructure moves closer to our borders," he said.

Finland shares a 1,300-km (810-mile) border with Russia. Until now, it has stayed out of Nato to avoid antagonising its eastern neighbour.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61420185
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 12, 2022, 12:38:54 pm
Finland to apply for Nato membership 'without delay'

1 hour ago

Finland's president and prime minister have called for the country to apply for Nato membership "without delay".


Sauli Niinisto and Sanna Marin said in a joint statement they expected a decision in the next few days.

The move comes amid a surge in public support for Nato membership following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Moscow said Finland's move was a threat to Russia and the further expansion of Nato would make Europe less stable and secure.

Previously, Russia has threatened unspecified measures - and on this occasion too, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov did not say exactly how Russia would respond.

"Everything will depend on how this expansion process plays out, the extent to which military infrastructure moves closer to our borders," he said.

Finland shares a 1,300-km (810-mile) border with Russia. Until now, it has stayed out of Nato to avoid antagonising its eastern neighbour.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61420185

And so, Russia ends up with NATO closer to its borders.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 12:40:33 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSizEuzWUAA-N0b?format=jpg&name=medium)

In last 24 hrs:

KIA - 300
Helicopters -  1
Tanks -  8
UAV -  8
Boats -  1
AP Vehicles - 17
Artillery Systems -  6
MLRS -  6
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 12:43:05 pm
And so, Russia ends up with NATO closer to its borders.

Putin is demonstrating to all of Europe what happens to non-NATO members.

(https://manometcurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Mariupol-768x513.png)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 12, 2022, 01:13:34 pm
So what's your estimate of what that number really is, @DCPatriot ?  According to Russia, they haven't lost a single soldier in two months.

@Hoodat

"Liquidated Personnel"?  LOL!  Whatever happened to "Killed in Action" (KIA)?   

Carry on.... 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 12, 2022, 01:15:07 pm
@Hoodat

"Liquidated Personnel"?  LOL!  Whatever happened to "Killed in Action" (KIA)?   

Carry on....

Zellinskkkki doesn't kill.....   he liquidates, ....  Kind of like our U.S Treasury.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 12, 2022, 01:36:06 pm
Thread just above had a title "107K Overdoses in U.S. in 2021. Wonder how many could be prevented in 2022-2025 if zellinnnnski's $40B been apporopriated for that?

Probably about as many as have been prevented after 40 years of the war on drugs.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 01:40:10 pm
@Hoodat

"Liquidated Personnel"?  LOL!  Whatever happened to "Killed in Action" (KIA)?   


So you're not disputing the number, but the terminology.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 12, 2022, 01:40:18 pm
@Hoodat

"Liquidated Personnel"?  LOL!  Whatever happened to "Killed in Action" (KIA)?   

Carry on....

So basically you have no clue and your way of avoiding the question is to focus on the wording...figures.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 01:44:58 pm
Thread just above had a title "107K Overdoses in U.S. in 2021. Wonder how many could be prevented in 2022-2025 if zellinnnnski's $40B that Congress created out of thin air had been apporopriated for that?

There, fixed it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 12, 2022, 01:57:59 pm
DEFUND THE POLICE!!
ABOLISH ICE!!
SHUT DOWN ALL U.S. ENERGY PRODUCTION!!
(gives 40 billion to a corrupt country which paid him and his son $multimillions under the table)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 12, 2022, 02:13:23 pm
There are many stories about foreign countries printing mint grade American dollars as a subversive strategy to weaken the American economy. North Korea, Russia, China, Iran, among others, have all been accused of this.

Fast forward to 2022. Now there is no longer any need for foreign governments to try to print American dollars, nor is there any profit in it these days. Biden is out printing them by Trillions of dollars. They cannot keep up with America itself.

For every billion fake counterfeit dollars they print, America prints a hundred billon. Counterfeiters can no longer compete with the American government itself. And everyone worldwide can see clearly that with the world literally awash with American dollars, eventually a dollar will become as valuable as a leaf on a tree. Soon, the very paper a dollar is made with will be worth more than the dollar itself. Soon, it will cost more than a dollar for the Fed to print a dollar.

And this is all very much intentional.   
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 12, 2022, 02:14:18 pm
Ukraine accused of deadly cross-border attack on Russian village

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/12/ukraine-accused-of-deadly-cross-border-attack-on-russian-village (https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/12/ukraine-accused-of-deadly-cross-border-attack-on-russian-village)

@Elderberry

Did this really happen,or is it just more Russian propaganda? I suspect it is because the Ukrainians HAVE to know they are getting so much international support because THEY were invaded,and that they would lose this support if they invaded Russia and attacked a village.

Who else is reporting it as fact?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 12, 2022, 02:39:40 pm
@Elderberry

Did this really happen,or is it just more Russian propaganda? I suspect it is because the Ukrainians HAVE to know they are getting so much international support because THEY were invaded,and that they would lose this support if they invaded Russia and attacked a village.

Who else is reporting it as fact?

@sneakypete

Very few reports and they are all using the same source:

Quote
Firing from Ukraine has killed one person and wounded seven in the Russian border village of Solokhi in the province of Belgorod, the regional governor, Vyacheslav Gladkov, has said.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 12, 2022, 03:18:34 pm
 May 12, 2022 10:13am EDT
Russia withdrawing troops after 'heavy losses', proving 'inability to capture key Ukrainian cities,' UK says
Russia once encircled Kharkiv at beginning of the war

By Greg Norman | Fox News

Russia’s withdrawal of troops from a Ukrainian region that they encircled at the beginning of the war is proving their "inability to capture key Ukrainian cities," the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defense said Thursday.

In an intelligence update, the Ministry said "Ukrainian forces are continuing to counterattack to the north of Kharkiv, recapturing several towns and villages towards the Russian border."

"Despite Russia’s success in encircling Kharkiv in the initial stages of the conflict, it has reportedly withdrawn units from the region to reorganize and replenish its forces following heavy losses," the Ministry continued.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-withdrawing-troops-kharkiv-ukraine-war-uk-says
   
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 12, 2022, 03:37:09 pm
@sneakypete

Very few reports and they are all using the same source:

@Elderberry

Thanks,Russian propaganda,just as I suspected.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 12, 2022, 04:32:09 pm
Ukrainian Trapped at Azovstal Begs Elon Musk for Help: 'If Not You, Who?'

JAKE THOMAS ON 5/11/22 AT 10:07 PM EDT


The head of a Ukrainian Marine Brigade is appealing to tech mogul Elon Musk to help soldiers escape a steel plant besieged by Russian forces.

Major Serhiy Volyna, acting commander of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade, on Wednesday made his appeal to the world's richest man, via Twitter. Volyna is among Ukrainian forces holed up in the Azovstal, the last holdout against Russian forces in the southern port city of Mariupol. Volyna's plea comes as Ukrainian officials seek to reach a deal with Russia to remove their wounded soldiers.

"@elonmusk people say you come from another planet to teach people to believe in the impossible," wrote Volyna in his tweet. "Our planets are next to each other, as I live where it is nearly impossible to survive. Help us get out of Azovstal to a mediating country. If not you, then who? Give me a hint."  .  .

https://www.newsweek.com/ukrainian-trapped-azovstal-begs-elon-musk-help-if-not-you-who-1705851
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 12, 2022, 05:14:21 pm
Finland to apply for Nato membership 'without delay'

1 hour ago

Finland's president and prime minister have called for the country to apply for Nato membership "without delay".


Sauli Niinisto and Sanna Marin said in a joint statement they expected a decision in the next few days.

The move comes amid a surge in public support for Nato membership following Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Moscow said Finland's move was a threat to Russia and the further expansion of Nato would make Europe less stable and secure.

Previously, Russia has threatened unspecified measures - and on this occasion too, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov did not say exactly how Russia would respond.

"Everything will depend on how this expansion process plays out, the extent to which military infrastructure moves closer to our borders," he said.

Finland shares a 1,300-km (810-mile) border with Russia. Until now, it has stayed out of Nato to avoid antagonising its eastern neighbour.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61420185

What a great example of how dictatorial regimes mess themselves up. Putin is surrounded by "yes" men. He did not calculate what the unintended consequences of an invasion of Ukraine might be.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 12, 2022, 05:19:10 pm
Putin is demonstrating to all of Europe what happens to non-NATO members.

(https://manometcurrent.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Mariupol-768x513.png)

As well as countries who do not have nuclear weapons.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 12, 2022, 05:25:22 pm
@Elderberry

Did this really happen,or is it just more Russian propaganda? I suspect it is because the Ukrainians HAVE to know they are getting so much international support because THEY were invaded,and that they would lose this support if they invaded Russia and attacked a village.

Who else is reporting it as fact?

I'm with you on this!

The only reason I can see any bombing in Russian territory would be to destroy a supply depot, or cut a supply line. In both cases it would be a clear military target, not civilian. It's Russian military doctrine that seeks to destroy civilian areas.

On a side note, it seems that Ukrainian artillery is incredibly accurate.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 12, 2022, 05:32:42 pm
I'm with you on this!

The only reason I can see any bombing in Russian territory would be to destroy a supply depot, or cut a supply line. In both cases it would be a clear military target, not civilian. It's Russian military doctrine that seeks to destroy civilian areas.

On a side note, it seems that Ukrainian artillery is incredibly accurate.

ROFL!  @bilo @Elderberry

My first thought was the swarm of drones attacking Jack Ryan and 'pres. Morgan Freeman in Olympus Has Fallen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40JFxhhJEYk
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 12, 2022, 05:43:50 pm
So you're not disputing the number, but the terminology.

Yeah...although I'm sure the number is skewed on the high side.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 12, 2022, 07:46:07 pm
Dramatic new videos show Russian tanks being blown sky-high in Ukraine

By Lee Brown
May 12, 2022

Dramatic new videos show a column of Russian tanks being picked out and blown up — while another explodes in a massive ball of flames, with debris blown sky-high in front of watching motorists.

Ukraine’s 54th Mechanized Brigade, based in the Donbas region, shared footage Tuesday of a platoon getting destroyed — setting the clip to upbeat, patriotic music.

The clip shows the line of tanks driven by invading troops — whom the unit termed “tourists” — driven along an unidentified road as smoke from repeated airstrikes fills the sky.

Several of the military vehicles then suffer direct hits, bursting into balls of flame — including one where debris exploded high into the sky.

Similar devastation was caught in a graphic dashcam clip caught by a Chinese state TV reporter in Mariupol, according to his station, Phoenix TV.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/12/video-shows-russian-tanks-being-blown-up-in-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 12, 2022, 07:53:06 pm
Quote
Ukrainian Trapped at Azovstal Begs Elon Musk for Help: 'If Not You, Who?'
This is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 12, 2022, 08:19:10 pm
Russia Suspends Most Offensive Operations in Reaction to Ukraine's Surprising Counteroffensive

By streiff
May 11, 2022

Tuesday, it became evident that the Russian Army was abandoning territory in Ukraine that it seized shortly after Putin’s War began on February 24 (Russian Troops Retreat From Ukraine to Russia: Planned Redeployment or the Beginning of Collapse?). That withdrawal opened the way for Ukrainian forces to recover previously occupied territory from north of Kharkiv to the border with Russia.

*  *  *

The news that was unconfirmed last night is pretty solid today.

As that was happening, an article appeared in the New York Times that attempted to create a narrative different from what can be seen developing in video and intelligence summaries (h/t to earl.m61 in the comments last night).

The New York Times offering is Ukraine War’s Geographic Reality: Russia Has Seized Much of the East.

Quote
Russia’s nearly three-month-old invasion of neighboring Ukraine has been punctuated by flawed planning, poor intelligence, barbarity and wanton destruction. But obscured in the daily fighting is the geographic reality that Russia has made gains on the ground.

The Russian Defense Ministry said Tuesday that its forces in eastern Ukraine had advanced to the border between Donetsk and Luhansk, the two Russian-speaking provinces where Moscow-backed separatists have been fighting Ukraine’s army for eight years.

The ministry’s assertion, if confirmed, strengthens the prospect that Russia could soon gain complete control over the region, known as the Donbas, compared with just a third of it before the Feb. 24 invasion.

I’m not going to take the time to “fisk” this line by line, but there are three points. First, Russia lost most of the area it grabbed in Ukraine during the initial stage of the invasion. Second. It controls more of Donbas now than before the war, but the war is not over. Third, Russia’s territorial gains will only survive if Ukraine agrees to give them up as part of a ceasefire, which seems unlikely (Ukraine President Zelensky Sets His Terms to End Russia’s Aggression in Ukraine and Vladimir Putin Isn’t Laughing).

The loss of the territory north of Kharkiv is more than symbolic.

*  *  *

Source:  https://redstate.com/streiff/2022/05/11/russia-suspends-most-offensive-operations-in-reaction-to-ukraines-surprising-counteroffensive-n563061
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 12, 2022, 08:46:35 pm
Putin's 'purge': Russia's top commander Valery Gerasimov 'is suspended' while a clutch of other generals 'have been sacked or arrested' over Ukraine invasion blunders, Kyiv claims

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
12 May 2022

Russia's top commander General Valery Gerasimov has been suspended, a top adviser to the Ukrainian president has claimed, while a clutch of other officers have been sacked or arrested amid a rumoured purge of top brass.

Oleksiy Arestovych, a veteran of military intelligence and one of President Zelensky's inner circle, claimed late Wednesday that Gerasimov - the chief of staff of the Russian army - has been suspended as Putin looks for senior commanders to blame over his blundering invasion of Ukraine.

Arestovych, speaking to dissident Russian lawyer and politician Mark Feygin on YouTube last night, said: 'According to preliminary information, Gerasimov has been de-facto suspended. They are deciding whether to give him time to fix things, or not.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10809829/Ukraine-war-Putin-purges-army-brass-Gerasimov-suspended.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 12, 2022, 08:48:30 pm
Russian state TV warns of 'a new iron curtain' in furious response to Finland after Helsinki declared it wants to join NATO 'without delay' and alliance chief says it will be 'warmly welcomed'

By JACK NEWMAN FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and GEOFF EARLE, DEPUTY U.S. POLITICAL EDITOR FOR DAILYMAIL.COM IN ALLIANCE, OHIO
12 May 2022

Russian state TV has accused the US of erecting a 'new iron curtain' in Europe in a furious response to Finland announcing its intention to join NATO, as the Kremlin's spokesman it will make the world less 'stable.'

This morning, president Sauli Niinisto and prime minister Sanna Marin said they want to join the security alliance 'without delay', with Sweden set to follow suit within days, drastically ramping up tensions between Russia and the West.

A senior Russian leader and the Kremlin had previously threatened it would secure 'the entire destruction' of the country' and 'the most undesirable consequences', and today said it would 'be forced to take retaliatory steps', both 'military-technical and other' against the 'threat'.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10809669/Russian-state-TV-warns-new-iron-curtain-furious-response-Finlands-NATO-bid.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 12, 2022, 11:10:55 pm
Russian state TV warns of 'a new iron curtain' in furious response to Finland after Helsinki declared it wants to join NATO 'without delay' and alliance chief says it will be 'warmly welcomed'

By JACK NEWMAN FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and GEOFF EARLE, DEPUTY U.S. POLITICAL EDITOR FOR DAILYMAIL.COM IN ALLIANCE, OHIO
12 May 2022

Russian state TV has accused the US of erecting a 'new iron curtain' in Europe in a furious response to Finland announcing its intention to join NATO, as the Kremlin's spokesman it will make the world less 'stable.'

This morning, president Sauli Niinisto and prime minister Sanna Marin said they want to join the security alliance 'without delay', with Sweden set to follow suit within days, drastically ramping up tensions between Russia and the West.

A senior Russian leader and the Kremlin had previously threatened it would secure 'the entire destruction' of the country' and 'the most undesirable consequences', and today said it would 'be forced to take retaliatory steps', both 'military-technical and other' against the 'threat'.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10809669/Russian-state-TV-warns-new-iron-curtain-furious-response-Finlands-NATO-bid.html

Talk about being blind to the consequences of actions you take.

The only reason any nation wants to be in NATO is to protect themselves from Russian aggression.

If Russia didn't invade it's neighbors there would be no need for a defensive alliance.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 12, 2022, 11:16:35 pm
Talk about being blind to the consequences of actions you take.

The only reason any nation wants to be in NATO is to protect themselves from Russian aggression.

If Russia didn't invade it's neighbors there would be no need for a defensive alliance.

Exactly so.  I don't know why they would be surprised that Western Europe would pull together in the face of demonstrated aggression.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 13, 2022, 12:28:42 am
Quote
Ukrainian Trapped at Azovstal Begs Elon Musk for Help: 'If Not You, Who?'
JAKE THOMAS ON 5/11/22 AT 10:07 PM EDT

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

I genuinely do not understand how anyone came up with the idea that fighters who are completely surrounded and who have refused evacuation without weapons into their own territory multiple times must be "rescued". Soldiers escape encirclement by victory, surrender or death.

8:07 PM · May 12, 2022   Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 13, 2022, 02:51:47 am
Exactly so.  I don't know why they would be surprised that Western Europe would pull together in the face of demonstrated aggression.

Lucky for us Zelenskyy didn't listen to Biden and flee. Russia will have destroyed themselves because of this. The war will end and Russia will be no more than a 3rd world country with nukes.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 13, 2022, 03:27:50 am
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

I genuinely do not understand how anyone came up with the idea that fighters who are completely surrounded and who have refused evacuation without weapons into their own territory multiple times must be "rescued". Soldiers escape encirclement by victory, surrender or death.

8:07 PM · May 12, 2022   Twitter for Android

Nuts.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 13, 2022, 03:29:46 am
Lucky for us Zelenskyy didn't listen to Biden and flee. Russia will have destroyed themselves because of this. The war will end and Russia will be no more than a 3rd world country with nukes.

I'll be surprised if Zelenskyy lives through this regardless of the outcome.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 13, 2022, 03:30:02 am
This is ridiculous.

The Marine brigade commander thinks very highly of Elon Musk.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 04:07:09 am
Lucky for us Zelenskyy didn't listen to Biden and flee. Russia will have destroyed themselves because of this. The war will end and Russia will be no more than a 3rd world country with nukes.

This is and was a damn shame,because almost every Russian I ever met craved to be more educated and practically worshiped the idea of accumulating knowledge. Being called "uncultured" was one of the biggest insults they could imagine.

@bilo
Russia has never been anything more than a 3rd world nation,without or without nukes. How could they be anything else when Russia has been so tightly controlled by a centuries old philosophy that was backwards when it was new,and the Russian Orthodox Church ruled Russia with a tight reign?

 Thing didn't get any better when Marxism took over with the Communists. Marx was a backwards idiot with no imagination at all,and wanted to rest of the world to be as backwards as he was.

Russia essentially changed from being a backwards nation controlled by religious fanatics,to a backwards nation controlled by clueless fools whose idea of good government was everything for them,and nothing but scraps for the peons they dominated. Basically,they  wanted the peons to be kept pregnant and barefooted so they were dependent on the state for everything,and incapable of providing for themselves.
 
Like the alleged Democratic governments of today,they wanted a nation of serfs,with ALL the power flowing from the top to the bottom. Nothing but royalty and peasants,with no troublesome middle class in-between the two.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 13, 2022, 04:20:40 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/angGL25_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 11:23:11 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/angGL25_460s.jpg)


Hmmm, now all we need to do is to tweak some of the guided missiles in inventory to home in on active Russian mobile phone network transmissions.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 13, 2022, 11:49:58 am
Ukraine Artillery Gets A GPS Boost

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=51416 (https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=51416)

Quote
The U.S. and other countries are sending M777 155mm howitzers to Ukraine.

    American M777 howitzers could prove a major factor in turning the tide against Russian forces in the ongoing invasion of Ukraine thanks to their precision and power.

    The howitzers are field artillery pieces that Ukrainian forces are already using to shell the Russians and represent an improvement on the equipment that the country’s military previously had.

    The U.S. has begun sending 90 M777 Howitzers, while Australia is sending six and Canada is providing four. The M777s are the towed howitzers currently used by the U.S. Army and Marine Corps. They have a maximum range of 15 miles and require a crew of eight to 10 people.

    Illia Ponomarenko, a defense reporter with The Kyiv Independent, tweeted on Tuesday: “M777s are already in Donbas, engaging Russian lines – confirmed!”

Snip.

    The M777 Howitzers generally fire precision-guided Excalibur rounds that use the Global Positioning System (GPS) to home in on targets and it is expected that Ukraine will have been provided with these rounds. Canada was reportedly providing Excalibur shells, according to an AFP report on April 25.

Here’s more background on the M777:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhwO6TkhBs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIhwO6TkhBs)

A few brief takeaways:

•  Using aluminum and titanium, they weigh half what the M198 they’re replacing weighed. This means they’re fare more air-portable (at least for the U.S., slung from an Osprey).

•  Each costs about $4 million.

•  Contrary to the article above, the video asserts they only need a crew of five.

•  Fires seven rounds a minute.

•  Excalibur shells cost about $70,000 each. Pricey, but way cheaper than a Tomahawk cruise missile.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 13, 2022, 12:35:25 pm
Exactly so.  I don't know why they would be surprised that Western Europe would pull together in the face of demonstrated aggression.

Well in all honesty...since the end of the USSR and the wall coming down most of Western Europe up til now hadn't given him any reason to believe they would.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 12:57:50 pm
Putin's bridge too far: Russians mount a SECOND doomed attempt to cross river where Ukraine destroyed a whole battalion - forcing the survivors to swim for their lives following disaster

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
13 May 2022

Russia has made another failed attempt to cross a Donbas river where an entire battalion was wiped out by Ukrainian artillery - losing more men in the process with survivors forced to swim to safety.

Putin's troops were trying to rescue men and vehicles that had got stranded on the wrong side of the Donets River, near Biolhorivka, after the first attempt on May 8 ended with their pontoon bridges being sunk by an artillery barrage that destroyed dozens of armoured vehicles and may have killed more than 1,000 troops.

But their rescue mission was found out and subjected to the same fate. Fresh satellite images taken near Biolhorivka show yet another sunken pontoon bridge along with half a dozen destroyed or abandoned vehicles.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10812449/Ukraine-war-Russians-make-second-failed-attempt-crossing-river.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 01:03:22 pm
Mutinous Russian soldiers are 'stripped, tied up and taken away in trucks by feared general who's been sent in to restore discipline in Ukraine'

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
13 May 2022

Mutinous Russian soldiers were stripped, tied up and taken away in trucks under the orders of a feared Russian general who has been sent in to restore discipline in Ukraine, according to a recording released by Kyiv's intelligence services.

Meanwhile, another audio clip was released in which a Russian soldier was overheard calling Vladimir Putin an 'old nutjob' and criticising his war in Ukraine.

The intercepted audio recordings are the latest evidence that morale is deteriorating among Moscow's forces as its faltering invasion of Ukraine entered its 12th week.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10812685/Mutinous-Russian-soldiers-stripped-tied-taken-away-trucks-feared-general.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 02:07:46 pm
Zelenskiy says he is ‘ready to talk to Putin’

Volodymyr Zelenskiy has reiterated an offer to hold direct talks with his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, in the Ukrainian president’s fullest public comments on the prospect of peace talks in weeks.

Russia’s withdrawal from Ukraine should be a starting point for any discussions between the two leaders, Zelenskiy told Italy’s RAI 1 television, Reuters reports.

Zelenskiy said:
Quote
As president, I am ready to talk to Putin, but only to him. Without any of his intermediaries. And in the framework of dialogue, not ultimatums.

Ukraine and Russia have not held face-to-face talks since 29 March. Interfax news agency has quoted Moscow’s chief negotiator, Vladimir Medinsky, as saying peace talks were being held remotely.

Zelenskiy also ruled out suggestions that Ukraine should make concessions for the sake of securing a peace agreement that would allow Putin to save face, adding that Ukraine would not compromise over its territorial integrity.

He said:
Quote
Get out of this territory that you have occupied since February 24. This is the first clear step to talking about anything.

Source:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/may/13/russia-ukraine-war-latest-kyiv-to-hear-first-war-crimes-trial-putin-humiliating-himself-on-world-stage-truss-says-live?filterKeyEvents=false&page=with:block-627e48fa8f08493b6168c1c6#block-627e48fa8f08493b6168c1c6
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 02:09:16 pm
Russia-Ukraine war: what we know on day 79 of the invasion

A round-up of items by the Guardian:  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/13/russia-ukraine-war-what-we-know-on-day-79-of-the-invasion
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 13, 2022, 02:15:23 pm
I'll be surprised if Zelenskyy lives through this regardless of the outcome.

I hope he survives, but the Ukrainians have shown their success in fighting the Russians is not dependent on one man.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 13, 2022, 02:17:31 pm
The Marine brigade commander thinks very highly of Elon Musk.

He should. When everyone else was trying to figure out what to do Musk made sure Ukraine's communications were not stopped.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 13, 2022, 02:19:27 pm
I wouldn't negotiate in person ... too much risk of being poisoned by Putin.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 13, 2022, 03:00:05 pm
Well in all honesty...since the end of the USSR and the wall coming down most of Western Europe up til now hadn't given him any reason to believe they would.

True.  People I've spoken with from the Netherlands absolutely hate the USA precisely because we armed them and paid the lion's share of the NATO armament (just try to make sense of that).  I told them to build their own stuff, I don't care.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 13, 2022, 03:12:47 pm
True.  People I've spoken with from the Netherlands absolutely hate the USA precisely because we armed them and paid the lion's share of the NATO armament (just try to make sense of that).  I told them to build their own stuff, I don't care.

The Dutch are an odd group and a little arrogant at times...especially their military. When I was in Afghanistan in 2010 we were taking over for the Dutch and it was also the year they went to the World Cup championship. They had decorated the entire camp in orange and blue.

Well the Aussies we were working with didn't have much love for them either because the female dutch soldiers had been told the knuckle dragging Aussie men were going to rape them.

So that year we all cheered for Spain against the Dutch in the WC. LOL!

As far as arming them...there were European military manufacturing companies that got more than their fair share of $$$ to build licensed versions of the war materials they needed.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 13, 2022, 03:15:34 pm
True.  People I've spoken with from the Netherlands absolutely hate the USA precisely because we armed them and paid the lion's share of the NATO armament (just try to make sense of that).  I told them to build their own stuff, I don't care.

The understanding that outside of Poland and few other minor locations, that we are universally hated over there, is just more reason I have been adamant in position of staying out of that mess.  What can't this country understand that.......why hang around somewhere where you are liked, needed  or appreciated?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 03:21:13 pm
Top oligarch is secretly recorded saying Putin 'has blood cancer' as experts match his limp and extreme Covid distancing to recovery from surgery

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
13 May 2022

Vladimir Putin is 'very ill with blood cancer', a Russian oligarch has claimed according to a new report, amid on-going speculation about the strongman's health.

An audio recording of the oligarch's comments was obtained by a Western venture capitalist and shared with New Lines magazine, the publication said.

In it, the oligarch - who has close ties to the Kremlin and named only as 'Yuri' to protect his identity - claimed a number of the health problems Putin is believed to be suffering from are linked to him having blood cancer.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10813667/Top-oligarch-secretly-recorded-saying-Putin-blood-cancer.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 03:25:46 pm
Top oligarch is secretly recorded saying Putin 'has blood cancer' as experts match his limp and extreme Covid distancing to recovery from surgery

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
13 May 2022

Vladimir Putin is 'very ill with blood cancer', a Russian oligarch has claimed according to a new report, amid on-going speculation about the strongman's health.

An audio recording of the oligarch's comments was obtained by a Western venture capitalist and shared with New Lines magazine, the publication said.

In it, the oligarch - who has close ties to the Kremlin and named only as 'Yuri' to protect his identity - claimed a number of the health problems Putin is believed to be suffering from are linked to him having blood cancer.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10813667/Top-oligarch-secretly-recorded-saying-Putin-blood-cancer.html

@Kamaji

The writing is on the wall. The Kremlin is preparing the ground for forcing him out of office without having to admit he blew it when he invaded Ukraine.

Don't forget that Russia is essentially a One Party Nation again,and that party can NOT admit that THEY screwed up by supporting him and the war.

Putin is now as good as gone. The only question will be "Who will replace him?"
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 03:27:53 pm
@Kamaji

The writing is on the wall. The Kremlin is preparing the ground for forcing him out of office without having to admit he blew it when he invaded Ukraine.


I don't think they'll force him out - I think right now they're all sitting around hoping he dies sooner rather than later.  Of course, with that possibility being real, they are less likely to take any affirmative action to get rid of him, so if he lingers for a long time, so, too, will the war in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 03:32:43 pm

I don't think they'll force him out - I think right now they're all sitting around hoping he dies sooner rather than later.  Of course, with that possibility being real, they are less likely to take any affirmative action to get rid of him, so if he lingers for a long time, so, too, will the war in Ukraine.

@Kamaji

You are forgetting that the war and the embargo are bankrupting Russia. The ONLY hope they have of preventing riots in the streets due to food,electricity,and even water shortages is to remove Putin,blame the whole thing on him,and hope to be forgiven by the west if they retreat back into Russia.

That may be a bitter pill to swallow,but it will be easier to swallow than a revolution.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 03:35:55 pm
@Kamaji

You are forgetting that the war and the embargo are bankrupting Russia. The ONLY hope they have of preventing riots in the streets due to food,electricity,and even water shortages is to remove Putin,blame the whole thing on him,and hope to be forgiven by the west if they retreat back into Russia.

That may be a bitter pill to swallow,but it will be easier to swallow than a revolution.


Yes, but by the same token (a) the oligarchs - and the senior general staff officers - are relatively insulated from those threats, and (b) anyone who even starts taking concrete steps towards eliminating Putin stands a very high risk of being caught, and summarily shot - even if they just look like they're involved in such machinations.

It seems to me that, until and unless ordinary Russians start protesting in the streets in sufficient numbers that they can't simply be arrested and silenced in the gulag, the oligarchs and general staff will continue to sit tight and hope that nature does what they're too scared to do themselves.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 03:39:31 pm
Sounds to me, if I were so inclined, "Parade Day" in Red Square would be an optimal time to strike Mother Russia.

@Cyber Liberty

There is NO SUCH CRITTER as a "Good time to strike Holy Mother Russia"!

Just in case you are one of those people who think there is such a thing as "winning a nuclear war",there ARE no winners,only survivors trying to rebuild civilization while slowly dying of radiation poisoning.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 13, 2022, 03:47:03 pm
@Cyber Liberty

There is NO SUCH CRITTER as a "Good time to strike Holy Mother Russia"!

Just in case you are one of those people who think there is such a thing as "winning a nuclear war",there ARE no winners,only survivors trying to rebuild civilization while slowly dying of radiation poisoning.

This is why I included, "if I were so inclined" to my statement.  I'm a live-and-let-live sort of person, the kind that doesn't care if the USSR wants to go to Hell with itself.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 13, 2022, 04:00:53 pm
Disclose.tv
@disclosetv
NEW - Ukraine's Zelensky will virtually join Klaus Schwab's annual meeting of the World Economic Forum.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSpKMwyWYAAgHKc?format=jpg&name=small)
9:58 AM · May 13, 2022·
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 13, 2022, 04:40:41 pm
The Democrats
@TheDemocrats
President Biden visited a factory in Alabama that's building missiles right here in America to provide to Ukraine. 🇺🇸
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FScAQeqWQAEG_mf?format=jpg&name=small)
8:39 PM · May 10, 2022·

 :thud:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 13, 2022, 04:50:32 pm
‘They were furious’: the Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukraine

Troops are saying no to officers, knowing that punishment is light while Russia is not technically at war

Pjotr Sauer
Thu 12 May 2022 13.58 EDT
Last modified on Fri 13 May 2022 00.28 EDT

When the soldiers of an elite Russian army brigade were told in early April to prepare for a second deployment to Ukraine, fear broke out among the ranks.

The unit, stationed in Russia’s far east during peacetime, first entered Ukraine from Belarus when the war started at the end of February and saw bitter combat with Ukrainian forces.

“It soon became clear that not everyone was onboard with it. Many of us simply did not want to go back,” said Dmitri, a member of the unit who asked not to be identified with his real name. “I want to return to my family – and not in a casket.”

Along with eight others, Dmitri told his commanders that he refused to rejoin the invasion. “They were furious. But they eventually calmed down because there wasn’t much they could do,” he said.

more
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/they-were-furious-the-russian-soldiers-refusing-to-fight-in-ukraine
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 04:51:06 pm
This is why I included, "if I were so inclined" to my statement.  I'm a live-and-let-live sort of person, the kind that doesn't care if the USSR wants to go to Hell with itself.

@Cyber Liberty

Thanks for clearing that up. You had me scared for a moment.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 13, 2022, 04:59:34 pm
@Cyber Liberty

Thanks for clearing that up. You had me scared for a moment.

@sneakypete

 :beer: :beer: :beer:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 05:19:06 pm
Even more speculation on Putin's health; take it for what it's worth:

Vladimir Putin very ill with 'Parkinson's and schizoaffective disorder', insider claims

In recent days Vladimir Putin has been seen sat down at a public event with a blanket over his legs. The once powerful leader does not look in good shape and maybe gravely ill

By Kelly-Ann Mills, News Reporter
13 May 2022

Sources close to Vladimir Putin say the Russian leader is very ill and may be suffering from a schizoaffective disorder and have Parkinson's.

Seen in recent days sat down at a public event with a blanket over his legs, the warmongering leader does not look in good shape.

It is claimed that Putin will be going for cancer surgery very soon, with body-doubles being lined up so it looks like he is still in full control of Russia as it continues its war with Ukraine.

The Kremlin insider, who claims to have detailed knowledge of Putin’s supposed health issues, which include cancer, early Parkinson’s disease and a schizoaffective disorder.

Although there has been no official confirmation from the Russian government that the leader is unwell.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/vladimir-putin-very-ill-parkinsons-26957354
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 13, 2022, 05:31:59 pm
Quote
Biden defense secretary Lloyd Austin spoke for the first time to Russia's defense chief Shoigu for the first time since the conflict in Ukraine began, stressing that it was important to keep the lines of communications open and called for a ceasefire.— Ian Miles Cheong (@stillgray) May 13, 2022
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 13, 2022, 05:50:05 pm
Ukraine Artillery Gets A GPS Boost

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=51416 (https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=51416)

Thanks for posting that. I've been wondering how the Ukrainian's could be so accurate with their artillery fire. These weapons should be a big help to the Ukrainians when dealing with the Russian dug in positions.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 13, 2022, 05:51:57 pm
Columbia Bugle
@ColumbiaBugle

US House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) is on the House floor right now stating that the United States is at war with Russia and that, because we are “in a time of war,” Republicans shouldn’t criticize Biden.

Are you paying attention yet?

1:03 PM · May 13, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 13, 2022, 05:53:50 pm
Well in all honesty...since the end of the USSR and the wall coming down most of Western Europe up til now hadn't given him any reason to believe they would.

Biden's total failure in Afghanistan was probably the final piece in the puzzle for Putin. We are fortunate that Boris Johnson really stepped into the role our POTUS should have been in. We are seeing Johnson doing it again promising to send British troops to Finland if requested.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 13, 2022, 06:02:29 pm
Columbia Bugle
@ColumbiaBugle

US House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) is on the House floor right now stating that the United States is at war with Russia and that, because we are “in a time of war,” Republicans shouldn’t criticize Biden.
Are you paying attention yet?
1:03 PM · May 13, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Yes, it's just a smidgen disturbing that Democrats think we're at war. When did Congress make this declaration?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 13, 2022, 06:03:32 pm
We are fortunate that Boris Johnson really stepped into the role our POTUS should have been in. We are seeing Johnson doing it again promising to send British troops to Finland if requested.

 :facepalm2:



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 13, 2022, 06:06:00 pm
‘They were furious’: the Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukraine

Troops are saying no to officers, knowing that punishment is light while Russia is not technically at war

Pjotr Sauer
Thu 12 May 2022 13.58 EDT
Last modified on Fri 13 May 2022 00.28 EDT

When the soldiers of an elite Russian army brigade were told in early April to prepare for a second deployment to Ukraine, fear broke out among the ranks.

The unit, stationed in Russia’s far east during peacetime, first entered Ukraine from Belarus when the war started at the end of February and saw bitter combat with Ukrainian forces.

“It soon became clear that not everyone was onboard with it. Many of us simply did not want to go back,” said Dmitri, a member of the unit who asked not to be identified with his real name. “I want to return to my family – and not in a casket.”

Along with eight others, Dmitri told his commanders that he refused to rejoin the invasion. “They were furious. But they eventually calmed down because there wasn’t much they could do,” he said.

more
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/they-were-furious-the-russian-soldiers-refusing-to-fight-in-ukraine

Pretty understandable it's one thing when you are fighting to save your country and freedom, it's another when you are invading.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 13, 2022, 06:08:49 pm
‘They were furious’: the Russian soldiers refusing to fight in Ukraine

Troops are saying no to officers, knowing that punishment is light while Russia is not technically at war

Pjotr Sauer
Thu 12 May 2022 13.58 EDT
Last modified on Fri 13 May 2022 00.28 EDT

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/12/they-were-furious-the-russian-soldiers-refusing-to-fight-in-ukraine

FWIW, there are several credible reports that contradict this one.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 07:12:59 pm
Russian troops boobytrap 10-year-old girl's PIANO: Horrified mother finds grenade hidden inside instrument after returning to family home ransacked by Putin's 'b*****d' soldiers

By ED WIGHT FOR MAILONLINE
13 May 2022

A Ukrainian mother has branded Russian soldiers 'b******s' after they boobytrapped her award-winning 10-year-old daughter's piano with a grenade.

Forced to flee their home in Bucza following Russia's invasion, Tatiana Monko returned home with daughter Daryna last week.

Despite their apartment being ransacked and Daryna's prized autographed poster of her favourite band being ripped to pieces, the first thing she wanted to do was play her piano.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10814183/Russian-troops-boobytrap-10-year-old-girls-PIANO-Horrified-mother-finds-grenade.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 13, 2022, 08:00:40 pm
 May 13, 2022 2:33pm EDT
Russian lawmaker warns Poland is next in line for 'denazification after Ukraine'
Comment comes after Polish leaders criticized Putin, Russia

By Greg Norman | Fox News

    A Russian lawmaker is warning Friday that recent comments from Poland’s leaders are encouraging Moscow to "put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine." 

Russian State Duma Deputy Oleg Morozov, using language Russia has sought to justify its bloody invasion of Ukraine, made the remark on his Telegram page, according to Russian state media.

"By its statements about Russia as a 'cancer tumor' and about the 'indemnity' that we must pay to Ukraine, Poland encourages us to put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine," Morozov reportedly wrote.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-lawmaker-poland-next-in-line-denazification-after-ukraine
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 08:03:05 pm
May 13, 2022 2:33pm EDT
Russian lawmaker warns Poland is next in line for 'denazification after Ukraine'
Comment comes after Polish leaders criticized Putin, Russia

By Greg Norman | Fox News

    A Russian lawmaker is warning Friday that recent comments from Poland’s leaders are encouraging Moscow to "put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine." 

Russian State Duma Deputy Oleg Morozov, using language Russia has sought to justify its bloody invasion of Ukraine, made the remark on his Telegram page, according to Russian state media.

"By its statements about Russia as a 'cancer tumor' and about the 'indemnity' that we must pay to Ukraine, Poland encourages us to put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine," Morozov reportedly wrote.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russian-lawmaker-poland-next-in-line-denazification-after-ukraine


:facepalm2:


The Russians really are more stupid, more venal, and more corrupt, than one can imagine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 08:06:29 pm
May 13, 2022 2:33pm EDT
Russian lawmaker warns Poland is next in line for 'denazification after Ukraine'
Comment comes after Polish leaders criticized Putin, Russia

By Greg Norman | Fox News

    A Russian lawmaker is warning Friday that recent comments from Poland’s leaders are encouraging Moscow to "put it in first place in the queue for denazification after Ukraine." 


@mystery-ak

You HAVE to wonder if this loon had permission to utter that brain fart,or if he is just one more Senior Senile Soviet fool with diarrhea of the mouth.

That HAS to rate right up near the top of the most Damn Fool Thing Ever Said.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 13, 2022, 08:19:11 pm
May 13, 2022 11:48am EDT
Defense Secretary Austin speaks with Russian defense minister for first time in months, urges cease-fire
Pentagon earlier said Russia wasn't answering US calls

By Greg Norman | Fox News

   U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin spoke Friday with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu for the first time in months, urging "an immediate cease-fire in Ukraine," Pentagon press secretary John Kirby says.

The call between Austin and his Russian counterpart is the first since Feb. 18, according to Kirby. It’s also the first since Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine, which has now lasted 79 days.

"Secretary Austin urged an immediate cease-fire in Ukraine and emphasized the importance of maintaining lines of communication," Kirby said.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/secretary-defense-austin-russia-shoigu-ukraine-call
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 13, 2022, 08:23:19 pm
 13, 2022 8:55am EDT
Ukraine destroys 'significant' number of Russian armored vehicles in failed river crossing, UK says
Images of eastern Ukraine destruction add to ‘heavy losses’ that Russia has been accumulating in the war

By Greg Norman | Fox News

Ukrainian troops fighting Vladimir Putin’s army in eastern Ukraine have destroyed a "significant" number of Russian armored vehicles during a failed attempt at a river crossing by the invading forces, the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defense said Friday.

The announcement comes after Ukraine released images purportedly showing more than two dozen burnt-out Russian tanks and other armored carriers scattered along the banks of the Siverskyi Donets River. One of the images appears to show partially sunken pontoon bridges.

"Images indicate that during the crossing of the Siverskyi Donets river west of Severodonetsk, Russia lost significant armored maneuver elements of at least one Battalion Tactical Group as well as the deployed pontoon bridging equipment," the Ministry said in a tweet.

(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/05/1862/1048/Ukraine-bridge-1.png?ve=1&tl=1)
The U.K. says pontoon bridges were destroyed during the failed crossing.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-russia-river-crossing-military-losses

   
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 08:28:27 pm
May 13, 2022 11:48am EDT
Defense Secretary Austin speaks with Russian defense minister for first time in months, urges cease-fire
Pentagon earlier said Russia wasn't answering US calls

By Greg Norman | Fox News

   U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin spoke Friday with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu for the first time in months, urging "an immediate cease-fire in Ukraine," Pentagon press secretary John Kirby says.

The call between Austin and his Russian counterpart is the first since Feb. 18, according to Kirby. It’s also the first since Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine, which has now lasted 79 days.

"Secretary Austin urged an immediate cease-fire in Ukraine and emphasized the importance of maintaining lines of communication," Kirby said.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/secretary-defense-austin-russia-shoigu-ukraine-call

@mystery-ak

Russian men have MASSIVE macho ego's,and SOMEBODY is going to have to figure out a way to let the Russians save "face" without actually having to admit they screwed up in order to get them to leave.

Frankly,I suspect they would be more than happy to accept an excuse that SEEMS to be valid,even though everybody would realize it was bogus.

Meanwhile,they are stuck in Ukraine,and don't know how to get out of there.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 13, 2022, 08:33:37 pm
 :shrug:

Oligarch ‘reveals Putin is very ill with blood cancer in secret recording’

Sam Courtney-GuyFriday 13 May 2022 10:45 am

A Russian oligarch with close ties to the Kremlin confessed to a Western colleague that Vladimir Putin is ‘very ill with blood cancer’, it has been claimed.

The billionaire, whose name has been withheld for his safety, was allegedly secretly taped in mid-March expressing his contempt for the ‘crazy’ Russian president’s invasion of Ukraine.

In the recording, obtained by New Lines Magazine, he said: ‘[Putin] absolutely ruined Russia’s economy, Ukraine’s economy and many other economies — ruined [them] absolutely.

‘The problem is with his head. … One crazy guy can turn the world upside down.’

The oligarch was said to be among Russia’s 200 richest people and currently residing outside of the country.

He was part of a ‘close circle of 20 or 30 people’ whom Putin met with in the build-up to his illegal annexation of Ukraine’s Crimean peninsula in 2014, a former European security chief told the magazine.

(https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/SEI_103057666-1.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=540%2C274)
Pictures have emerged of the Russian president looking increasingly frail

more
https://metro.co.uk/2022/05/13/putin-very-ill-with-blood-cancer-says-top-oligarch-in-secret-tape-16636578/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 13, 2022, 08:49:40 pm
@mystery-ak

Russian men have MASSIVE macho ego's,and SOMEBODY is going to have to figure out a way to let the Russians save "face" without actually having to admit they screwed up in order to get them to leave.

Frankly,I suspect they would be more than happy to accept an excuse that SEEMS to be valid,even though everybody would realize it was bogus.

Meanwhile,they are stuck in Ukraine,and don't know how to get out of there.

That's easy... Russia can say they killed all the "NAZIs" and leave...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 08:50:39 pm
That's easy... Russia can say they killed all the "NAZIs" and leave...

That could work.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: berdie on May 13, 2022, 09:04:26 pm
That's easy... Russia can say they killed all the "NAZIs" and leave...



That's a great solution...providing they quit threatening other countries looking to join NATO...and Nato/western countries.

An off the wall thought I had, maybe NATO should reconsider admitting the Ukraine at some time in the future. Seems to me like they have proven themselves as fierce fighters and could provide a decent buffer between the NATO countries and Russia. And no, I don't give a darn if Putin has a fit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 13, 2022, 09:06:07 pm
@mystery-ak

You HAVE to wonder if this loon had permission to utter that brain fart,or if he is just one more Senior Senile Soviet fool with diarrhea of the mouth.

That HAS to rate right up near the top of the most Damn Fool Thing Ever Said.

-or-

The Russians are just confirming why it's so important to stop them now and send them back to Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 13, 2022, 09:09:18 pm
@mystery-ak

Russian men have MASSIVE macho ego's,and SOMEBODY is going to have to figure out a way to let the Russians save "face" without actually having to admit they screwed up in order to get them to leave.

Frankly,I suspect they would be more than happy to accept an excuse that SEEMS to be valid,even though everybody would realize it was bogus.

Meanwhile,they are stuck in Ukraine,and don't know how to get out of there.

They could always agree to completely leave all of Ukraine and have a UN peacekeeping force along the border.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 09:10:21 pm
Putin rumored to have fired another top Russian general as Ukraine invasion flounders

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
May 13, 2022

Speculation is swirling that Russian President Vladimir Putin has sacked his top commander in what is the latest rumored dismissal amid his floundering invasion into Ukraine, said an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

Oleksiy Arestovych, a presidential adviser, said in an interview with Russian dissident lawyer Mark Feygin on Wednesday that “preliminary information” indicated that Valery Gerasimov, chief of the Russian General Staff, had been fired.

The reported sacking could not be independently verified, and the Kremlin has not given any indications of an upper-echelon ouster.

However Gerasimov — who was famously seen briefing Russian President Vladimir Putin alongside Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu from the other end of a long table during the lead-up to the war — was notably absent from this week’s Victory Day parade in Moscow.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/13/putin-rumored-to-have-fired-russian-general-valery-gerasimov/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 13, 2022, 10:08:53 pm
FWIW, there are several credible reports that contradict this one.

Post them.  Something credible would be a nice change.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 13, 2022, 10:13:02 pm
That's easy... Russia can say they killed all the "NAZIs" and leave...

And once they leave, there will no longer be any nazis in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 10:21:13 pm
That could work.

@Kamaji @DB

Maybe,but some western officials are going to have to thank them in public for "removing the Nazi threat and making the world a safer place." to "sell it".

Give them quotes that will add salve to their fried egos.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 13, 2022, 10:22:11 pm
And once they leave, there will no longer be any nazis in Ukraine.

You just put your finger on it right there.  Russia can never say they exterminated the Nazi menace because they need that boogie man in perpetuity.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 10:24:47 pm
They could always agree to completely leave all of Ukraine and have a UN peacekeeping force along the border.

@bilo

NOT good enough to stand on it's own. It is a tactic admission of surrender. Subtle,but obvious.

Someone prominent needs to swallow a little pride and thank them for "making the world a safer place."

Which,ironically enough,would be exactly what they would be doing by pulling all their forces back to Russia.

It doesn't matter at all if you or I or anyone else in the west believes it as long as it is something the typical Russia can convince themselves to believe.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 13, 2022, 10:27:45 pm
Putin rumored to have fired another top Russian general as Ukraine invasion flounders

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
May 13, 2022

Speculation is swirling that Russian President Vladimir Putin has sacked his top commander in what is the latest rumored dismissal amid his floundering invasion into Ukraine, said an advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky.

Oleksiy Arestovych, a presidential adviser, said in an interview with Russian dissident lawyer Mark Feygin on Wednesday that “preliminary information” indicated that Valery Gerasimov, chief of the Russian General Staff, had been fired.

The reported sacking could not be independently verified, and the Kremlin has not given any indications of an upper-echelon ouster.

However Gerasimov — who was famously seen briefing Russian President Vladimir Putin alongside Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu from the other end of a long table during the lead-up to the war — was notably absent from this week’s Victory Day parade in Moscow.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/13/putin-rumored-to-have-fired-russian-general-valery-gerasimov/

@Kamaji

Am I the only one thinking "The Russian General Staff and their aides HAVE to be getting tired of having ALL the blame for this brain fart placed on THEIR heads,when all THEY were doing was following Putin's orders?

I am wondering how long it will take and how many Generals have to be removed under disgrace before the remaining Generals get fed up and remove him themselves.

Or maybe I am wrong. Has anyone out there ever met,known,or even ever heard  of such a creature as a "modest General Officer"?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 13, 2022, 10:31:21 pm
@Kamaji

Am I the only one thinking "The Russian General Staff and their aides HAVE to be getting tired of having ALL the blame for this brain fart placed on THEIR heads,when all THEY were doing was following Putin's orders?

I am wondering how long it will take and how many Generals have to be removed under disgrace before the remaining Generals get fed up and remove him themselves.

Or maybe I am wrong. Has anyone out there ever met or known of such a creature as a "modest General Officer"?


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 13, 2022, 10:55:09 pm
U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin spoke Friday with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu for the first time in months, urging "an immediate cease-fire in Ukraine," Pentagon press secretary John Kirby says.

Idiots.  Austin and Kirby want to draw up the new borders now before Russia loses more ground.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 14, 2022, 12:46:26 am
Idiots.  Austin and Kirby want to draw up the new borders now before Russia loses more ground.

@Hoodat

I think it is more of a case of them lifting their skirts and running for the nearest microphone,so they can later claim credit for ending the war against Ukraine.

Remember,with 99 percent of the politicians,it is all about "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!"
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 14, 2022, 12:57:42 am
Columbia Bugle
@ColumbiaBugle

US House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-MD) is on the House floor right now stating that the United States is at war with Russia and that, because we are “in a time of war,” Republicans shouldn’t criticize Biden.

Are you paying attention yet?

1:03 PM · May 13, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

"Best line of @RepMattGaetz Epic Foreign Policy Speech: “Real morality and real toughness is standing up to the pro-war special interests and globalist powerbrokers. Real morality is affirming forever that the blood of American troops is not for sale to anyone, at any cost.”  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1131320465195118592
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 14, 2022, 01:34:30 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aZrRAd6_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 14, 2022, 02:52:34 pm
Not to mention the invasion across OUR border .....

Election Wizard
@ElectionWiz

This will fix inflation and the baby formula crisis, right?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSuPqfBWUAIBmZ8?format=jpg&name=small)

9:40 AM · May 14, 2022   Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 14, 2022, 03:06:03 pm
Western Weapons in Ukraine Being Sold On via Encrypted Messaging App: Report

Chris Tomlinson 14 May 2022

Miliary-grade weaponry in Ukraine is allegedly being sold on to international buyers on the encrypted messaging app Telegram, including some hardware made in the United States.

Weapons that have been allegedly collected in Ukraine during the country’s ongoing war with Russia have been put up for sale on Telegram channels, including various kinds of automatic rifles and small arms.

Weapons said to be for sale include not just Ukrainian-origin arms such as old Soviet-era AK-47 rifles, but also American-made rifles like the M16 and the M4, along with other NATO member-origin firearms like the ARX 160 A1 manufactured by the Italian weapons company Beretta, newspaper Il Giornale reports.

It remains unclear whether the weapons are being sold by Ukrainians or by Russians who have collected them over the course of the war.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/14/western-weapons-in-ukraine-being-sold-on-via-encrypted-messaging-app-report/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 14, 2022, 03:07:53 pm
MTG:  'Notice U.S. elected politicians like @SpeakerPelosi 🇺🇦 and @LeaderMcConnell 🇺🇦 can go visit Zelensky 🇺🇦 in Ukraine without bullet proof vests/helmets or any fear from dangers of war, while they eagerly give billions to fund their proxy war w/ Russia.'  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RepMTG/status/1525480274590584832
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 14, 2022, 03:15:58 pm
 McConnell leads congressional delegation to Ukraine, meets with Zelensky
by Caroline Vakil - 05/14/22 10:27 AM ET

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and three other Republican senators met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky in Ukraine, becoming the latest set of top U.S. lawmakers to travel to Kyiv.

Zelensky posted a video on his Instagram showing him meeting with McConnell and Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine), John Cornyn (R-Texas) and John Barrasso (R-Wyo.). It was not immediately clear when the group of senators had met with him.

“The visit of the U.S. Senate delegation led by Republican minority leader to the Upper House of Congress, Mitchell McConnell, is a powerful signal of bipartisan support for Ukraine from the United States Congress and the American people,” Zelensky wrote in his post.

“Thank you for your leadership in helping us fight not only for our country but for democratic values and freedoms. We do appreciate it very much.”

The Hill has reached out to the offices of McConnell, Collins, Cornyn and Barrasso for comment.

more
https://thehill.com/news/senate/3488375-mcconnell-leads-congressional-delegation-to-ukraine-meets-with-zelensky/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 14, 2022, 03:18:42 pm
Western Weapons in Ukraine Being Sold On via Encrypted Messaging App: Report

Chris Tomlinson 14 May 2022

Miliary-grade weaponry in Ukraine is allegedly being sold on to international buyers on the encrypted messaging app Telegram, including some hardware made in the United States.

Weapons that have been allegedly collected in Ukraine during the country’s ongoing war with Russia have been put up for sale on Telegram channels, including various kinds of automatic rifles and small arms.

Weapons said to be for sale include not just Ukrainian-origin arms such as old Soviet-era AK-47 rifles, but also American-made rifles like the M16 and the M4, along with other NATO member-origin firearms like the ARX 160 A1 manufactured by the Italian weapons company Beretta, newspaper Il Giornale reports.

It remains unclear whether the weapons are being sold by Ukrainians or by Russians who have collected them over the course of the war.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/14/western-weapons-in-ukraine-being-sold-on-via-encrypted-messaging-app-report/

@mystery-ak

So what?

Are any of you foolish enough to think this didn't happen in every war that has ever been fought?

The answer to this is to have the Ukrainians,with the help of the US intelligence agencies,to track down the arms dealers and arrest them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 14, 2022, 03:56:22 pm
@mystery-ak

So what?

Are any of you foolish enough to think this didn't happen in every war that has ever been fought?

The answer to this is to have the Ukrainians,with the help of the US intelligence agencies,to track down the arms dealers and arrest them.

US intelligence agencies are probbly the ones selling them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 14, 2022, 04:42:08 pm
US intelligence agencies are probbly the ones selling them.

@Right_in_Virginia

IF that is the case,you have nothing to bitch about because the US is making money off the war.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 14, 2022, 05:16:19 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

IF that is the case,you have nothing to bitch about because the US is making money off the war.

@sneakypete   This sh*tshow is not our war.   Not even your apparent affinity for corruption can put lipstick on this pig.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 14, 2022, 05:25:36 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FStksf-WQAILC7_?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 14, 2022, 05:26:55 pm
@sneakypete   This sh*tshow is not our war.   Not even your apparent affinity for corruption can put lipstick on this pig.

@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,and I am corrupt because I think we should help a free state remain free after being invaded by the Russians.

ROFLAMO!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 14, 2022, 05:27:15 pm
@sneakypete
Weird transformation. You were the guy who said you would NEVER vote for Trump or any Democrat because they are all corrupt and incompetent; they are all the same thing.

And now suddenly you seem to be a RAH-RAH-CIS-BOOM-BAH cheerleader on the side of Ukraine, and the Democrat looting of the U.S. Treasury. I do not say this is wrong or right. It is just surprising to me that you would take such a hard stance on promoting a war and America's involvement in it?

But whatever. We all have our opinions on this, or that, or the other.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 14, 2022, 05:50:31 pm
@sneakypete
Weird transformation. You were the guy who said you would NEVER vote for Trump or any Democrat because they are all corrupt and incompetent; they are all the same thing.

I may be wrong, but I don't recall @sneakypete every saying that.  I think you have him confused with someone else.


And now suddenly you seem to be a RAH-RAH-CIS-BOOM-BAH cheerleader on the side of Ukraine, and the Democrat looting of the U.S. Treasury.

This is a logical fallacy.  The two do not go hand in hand but are independent of each other.  It is entirely possible to support Ukraine while at the same time vehemently opposing the spending excesses of the US Congress, which incidentally have nothing to do with equipping Ukraine with the arms needed to push Russia out of their country.


I do not say this is wrong or right. It is just surprising to me that you would take such a hard stance on promoting a war and America's involvement in it?

Same logical fallacy.  Keep in mind that the only side promoting war here is Russia.  Our role has been to come to the aid of a country wrongly attacked - both morally and politically.  As for American involvement, while there have been numerous posters here (myself included) calling for arms shipments to Ukraine, there is not a single poster here who has advocated for US troops to engage Russian or pro-Russian forces.

As a reminder, Ukraine is not asking for $33 40 billion in aid.  They are asking for the weapons needed to defeat Russia.  If we had jumped on this early, half of Russia's entire armored force would be rusting away on the roads between Kyiv and Belarus.  Instead, Russia was allowed to withdraw those forces and redeploy them into Luhansk, Donetsk, and Kherson.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 14, 2022, 05:56:33 pm
@bilo

NOT good enough to stand on it's own. It is a tactic admission of surrender. Subtle,but obvious.

Someone prominent needs to swallow a little pride and thank them for "making the world a safer place."

Which,ironically enough,would be exactly what they would be doing by pulling all their forces back to Russia.

It doesn't matter at all if you or I or anyone else in the west believes it as long as it is something the typical Russia can convince themselves to believe.

Everything I'm seeing indicates that Putin has a lot of support in Russia. They have been indoctrinated with the propaganda that Nazi's are a threat and NATO wants to destroy Russia. I think the people around Putin are to weak to put an end to the war just as a majority of Russians won't rise up and say the invasion should end.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 14, 2022, 06:02:53 pm
Idiots.  Austin and Kirby want to draw up the new borders now before Russia loses more ground.

Everything the Brandon admn. does is wrong. Thankfully in the case of Ukraine other leaders have stepped up and dragged the Brandon admn. into doing the right thing.

I think the worse thing to do is end the war before Russia's capability to fight a conventional war is destroyed. After that let Russia deal with all their neighbors who no longer want their boot on their throat.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 14, 2022, 06:09:22 pm

I may be wrong, but I don't recall @sneakypete every saying that.  I think you have him confused with someone else.


This is a logical fallacy.  The two do not go hand in hand but are independent of each other.  It is entirely possible to support Ukraine while at the same time vehemently opposing the spending excesses of the US Congress, which incidentally have nothing to do with equipping Ukraine with the arms needed to push Russia out of their country.


Same logical fallacy.  Keep in mind that the only side promoting war here is Russia.  Our role has been to come to the aid of a country wrongly attacked - both morally and politically.  As for American involvement, while there have been numerous posters here (myself included) calling for arms shipments to Ukraine, there is not a single poster here who has advocated for US troops to engage Russian or pro-Russian forces.

As a reminder, Ukraine is not asking for $33 40 billion in aid.  They are asking for the weapons needed to defeat Russia.  If we had jumped on this early, half of Russia's entire armored force would be rusting away on the roads between Kyiv and Belarus.  Instead, Russia was allowed to withdraw those forces and redeploy them into Luhansk, Donetsk, and Kherson.
OK, whatever?
As I have always said, I respect all opinions. However in this case, the Democrats are intentionally escalating the Ukrainian conflict for their own purposes, namely the coming election. They are explicitly promoting and extolling that America is "at war with Russia" in order to excuse their catastrophic performance with all things concerning America by saying, "it is not us ... it is all because of the war!" Of course this is nonsense, but it is what the American Left has decided to run with.

If the Democrat self-serving policies incidentally happen to help Ukraine, then so much the better. But that is not the main point of anything the Democrats are doing. Everything Democrats and many Congressional Republicans do is specifically intended to enrich or empower themselves.

While supporting Ukraine may be a noble cause, it is important to remember that the people in charge of allocating the money and equipment necessary to do that, are rotten dirty sneaky bureaucratic thieves, who do not have the emotional capacity to care about anything or anyone beyond themselves.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 14, 2022, 06:10:16 pm
@mystery-ak

So what?

Are any of you foolish enough to think this didn't happen in every war that has ever been fought?

The answer to this is to have the Ukrainians,with the help of the US intelligence agencies,to track down the arms dealers and arrest them.

You're absolutely right!

I do think Sen. Paul has a good idea in having an inspector general overseeing where the money is going. I want to help Ukraine everyway possible. I think helping Russia become a 3rd world country will benefit every freedom loving country. However, reasonable oversight is not a bad idea and as you say lets hunt down the arms dealers and let the Ukrainians deal with them. I suspect they will not be as kind as we would.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 14, 2022, 06:14:47 pm
@sneakypete   This sh*tshow is not our war.   Not even your apparent affinity for corruption can put lipstick on this pig.

No it is not. I'm glad you are finally seeing it.

All we are being asked to do is help the Ukrainians defend themselves by providing weaponry and aid.

A great investment in my book!

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 14, 2022, 06:15:46 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,and I am corrupt because I think we should help a free state remain free after being invaded by the Russians.

ROFLAMO!

 :amen:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 14, 2022, 06:16:28 pm
OK, whatever?
the Democrats are intentionally escalating the Ukrainian conflict for their own purposes, namely the coming election. They are explicitly promoting and extolling that America is "at war with Russia" in order to excuse their catastrophic performance with all things concerning America by saying, "it is not us ... it is all because of the war!" Of course this is nonsense, but it is what the American Left has decided to run with.

I agree 100%.


If the Democrat self-serving policies incidentally happen to help Ukraine, then so much the better. But that is not the main point of anything the Democrats are doing. Everything Democrats and many Congressional Republicans do is specifically intended to enrich or empower themselves.

Agree 100%.  This $33 40 billion spending bill serves one purpose and one purpose only - to ensure both the financial and job security of incumbent politicians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 14, 2022, 06:28:46 pm
OK, whatever?
As I have always said, I respect all opinions. However in this case, the Democrats are intentionally escalating the Ukrainian conflict for their own purposes, namely the coming election. They are explicitly promoting and extolling that America is "at war with Russia" in order to excuse their catastrophic performance with all things concerning America by saying, "it is not us ... it is all because of the war!" Of course this is nonsense, but it is what the American Left has decided to run with.

If the Democrat self-serving policies incidentally happen to help Ukraine, then so much the better. But that is not the main point of anything the Democrats are doing. Everything Democrats and many Congressional Republicans do is specifically intended to enrich or empower themselves.

While supporting Ukraine may be a noble cause, it is important to remember that the people in charge of allocating the money and equipment necessary to do that, are rotten dirty sneaky bureaucratic thieves, who do not have the emotional capacity to care about anything or anyone beyond themselves.

I don't disagree with you about the self serving motivations of the Rats and bureaucrats. However, don't let their evil dictate your response. Helping Ukraine is not only the right thing to do it is also among the best investments we could make.

Our soldiers are not being called on to go in and fight. One of our principal adversaries is being destroyed, not only militarily but also economically. Democratically elected govts around the world are recognizing they need to improve their own defense capabilities as well as diversify the energy sources. NATO is growing and will be a stabilizing structure in Europe, especially as the European Union continues to decline.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 14, 2022, 06:37:10 pm
Kharkiv is a major victory for Ukraine

Joe Inwood, Lviv  |  9:36


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2022/5/14/c44eace4-fdf4-451c-a8c2-56dc734ec18f.jpg)
The Palace of Culture, in the town of Dergachi, lies in ruins after being hit by artillery

On the outskirts of Kharkiv the retreating Russians left a parting gift.

Dergachi's Palace of Culture is now a smouldering ruin, thanks to a final barrage of rocket artillery.

But, it may be one of the last buildings in Ukraine's second city to suffer this fate.

Kharkiv is called a fortress, and with good reason. It has withstood more than two months of constant bombardment.

Its buildings and people have been battered, but never broken. Its defences never were breached

The city's mayor, Ihor Terekhov, told the BBC people are starting to return – and that the battle has been won.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61441664
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 14, 2022, 06:52:43 pm
I may be wrong, but I don't recall @sneakypete every saying that.  I think you have him confused with someone else.

@Hoodat @240B

True dat. I would rather cut my nose off than vote for a Dim.


 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 14, 2022, 07:05:34 pm
Everything I'm seeing indicates that Putin has a lot of support in Russia. They have been indoctrinated with the propaganda that Nazi's are a threat and NATO wants to destroy Russia. I think the people around Putin are to weak to put an end to the war just as a majority of Russians won't rise up and say the invasion should end.

@bilo

I am not doubting your word,or even the info you passed on,but I will say this is the first time I have ever seen that.

Keeping in mind that Propaganda is a VERY useful tool of war/politics,all I have seen are posts showing protesters in Russia protesting the Russian invasion. One guy was even a prominent reporter on their tv news,who lost his job because of it,and for all I know,was arrested.

Let's face it,Russia doesn't have a good reputation when it comes to the ways they deal with protesters.

The truth is there is no way for any of us to REALLY know what is going on inside Russia,but since almost all of their "rifle toters" are draftees and THEY are the ones being captured or killed,I pretty much have to believe their relatives back in Russia are not real happy about this.

After all,this is not the 1950's. Even though the authorities there are still able to lock down local news reports,there is no practical way to keep western news reports away from the subjects in this day of computers and instant communications. Yes,the authorities CAN pretty much control the spread of this news because they control all local communications and have the power to arrest anyone they want at any time,but people will still talk with relatives and friends they trust,who will in turn talk to friends THEY trust.

And let's face it,Putin and the communists took back control of Russia and have been trying to return to Communism ever since he entered office,and we all know of Putin's career as an officer in the Soviet Military Intelligence apparatus. When it comes right down to it,I seriously doubt he ever actually won an election.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 14, 2022, 07:16:05 pm
Everything the Brandon admn. does is wrong. Thankfully in the case of Ukraine other leaders have stepped up and dragged the Brandon admn. into doing the right thing.

I think the worse thing to do is end the war before Russia's capability to fight a conventional war is destroyed. After that let Russia deal with all their neighbors who no longer want their boot on their throat.

@bilo

Sure can't argue with THAT paragraph!

The truth is that Russia is now on the ropes,and the Communist geezers in the Politburo that stole back control flat don't know what to do,other than the kneejerk reaction to protect themselves and their wealth at all possible costs.

The world will be a much safer place once they all die off,and since the ones still in their 70's are considered to be "youngsters",it shouldn't take more than  another 10 years at the most. The trick will be to try to keep them from setting the world on fire before they die.

Surrendering to them and letting them have their way is NOT the way to go about getting the changes the world needs to be a safer place. All that would do would be to encourage their children to take their places,instead of fleeing to Switzerland or somewhere else for safe haven,along with their stolen and hidden wealth.

BTW,ANYBODY that seriously thinks the old Soviets actually lived in their official income isn't smart enough to be called stupid. There are VERY good reasons why the authorities in the old USSR required Soviet citizens to apply for official permission to visit another city,and then required them to either take a train or a bus that followed a specific route.

These SOB's had daschas outside of Moscow that would be the envy of the typical Hollywood movie producer. So big you could see them from the air when flying to the airport outside of Moscow. Hell,the swimming pools were so big you could see them from the minimum altitude required to circle the airport.

These people lived like the Princes in medieval Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 14, 2022, 07:20:04 pm

I do think Sen. Paul has a good idea in having an inspector general overseeing where the money is going.

@bilo

This is the first I have heard of that,but I think it is an EXCELLENT idea. I also suspect it has outraged the American politicians,who had dreams of skimming most of it away before it even got there.



 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 14, 2022, 11:52:20 pm
@bilo

And let's face it,Putin and the communists took back control of Russia and have been trying to return to Communism ever since he entered office...

Putin's hero is Peter the Great, not Stalin      @sneakypete

Beginning in 1682, Peter the Great modernized Russia—and transformed it into a major power. Through his reforms, Russia made incredible progress in the development of its economy and trade, education, science and culture, and foreign policy.

Peter's cause was to make Russia a European great power, capable of matching the likes of Austria, Britain, Prussia and France in both military might and the economic and bureaucratic foundations on which it is based.  History proves Peter achieved this.

If anything, it is the Tsarist Russian Empire Putin is attempting to bring back, not the communist Soviet Union.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 15, 2022, 12:18:18 am

Putin's hero is Peter the Great, not Stalin      @sneakypete

@Right_in_Virginia

I fail  to see the difference,other that Peter the Great was an actual warrior.

Beginning in 1682, Peter the Great modernized Russia—and transformed it into a major power. Through his reforms, Russia made incredible progress in the development of its economy and trade, education, science and culture, and foreign policy.

Peter's cause was to make Russia a European great power, capable of matching the likes of Austria, Britain, Prussia and France in both military might and the economic and bureaucratic foundations on which it is based.  History proves Peter achieved this.

If anything, it is the Tsarist Russian Empire Putin is attempting to bring back, not the communist Soviet Union.

I agree with everything you wrote except for the last sentence.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 15, 2022, 02:16:45 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aQXV1z2_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 15, 2022, 02:18:22 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aQXV1z2_460s.jpg)

I don't get it..... :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 15, 2022, 02:19:21 am
Dead Russian soldiers being stored in refrigerated train as Moscow 'loses' battle for key city

Ukraine has said Russian forces are pulling back from Kharkiv and focusing on guarding supply routes while launching mortar, artillery, and air strikes on the eastern Donetsk region. An American think tank has explained the move indicates Ukraine has won the battle for the city.

Jess Sharp  |  14 May 2022 13:32, UK

Ukraine has collected hundreds of dead Russian soldiers and is storing their bodies inside a refrigerated train in order to send them back to their families.


The soldiers have been brought from across the Kyiv region, the northern city of Chernihiv, and a number of other areas to a rail yard just outside Ukraine's capital, the country's chief civil-military liaison officer, Volodymyr Lyamzin said.

While there have been no reliable estimates of the number of Russian troops killed, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy has claimed 27,000 soldiers have died since the war began.  .  .

.  .  .  Ukraine's internal affairs minister Anton Garashenko said there are more than 250 dead soldiers piled in the cars and claimed Russia "is still not picking up the bodies".

It comes as Ukraine claimed Russian troops have started withdrawing from its second-largest city after weeks of heavy bombardment.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-dead-russian-soldiers-being-stored-in-refrigerated-train-as-moscow-loses-battle-for-key-city-12612654
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 15, 2022, 03:07:42 am
Bloody river battle was third in three days - Ukraine official

Sophie Williams & Olga Pona - BBC, Lviv  |  1 day ago

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F07A/production/_124726516_3fc920d1-a041-4590-b2ee-bb687ba220a2.jpg)

A failed river crossing where a Russian battalion lost almost all its armoured vehicles was the third such attack in three days, a Ukrainian army official has told the BBC.


Serhiy Hayday, head of the Luhansk Regional Military Administration, said Russia was trying hard to cross the Siversky Donets in order to encircle a strategic east Ukrainian city.

But he claimed that in days of intense battles, local forces had destroyed speed boats and helicopters and "ruined Russian boat bridges three times".

Images from the scene show dozens of burnt-out armoured vehicles on the banks of the river.

Ukrainian information service, InformNapalm, said that Russia began its crossing attempt on 8 May.

But as soon as they crossed, Ukrainian forces destroyed the pontoon bridge in the water, and Russian troops "fell into the trap", it said.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61399440



This map gives a better understanding of the strategy.  Russia attempted to set up bridgehead for cutting off troops on west side of river.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/C91A/production/_124728415_severodonetsk_close_up_2x640-nc-002.png)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 15, 2022, 01:56:42 pm
 Zelensky asks US to designate Russia a ‘terrorist state’ after McConnell visit
By Eileen AJ Connelly and
Mary Kay Linge   
May 14, 2022 5:00pm

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell took three Republican senators along on a surprise trip to Kyiv Saturday for a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky — where he called on the US to designate Russia as a “terrorist state.”

“I believe that this visit once again demonstrates … the strength of ties between the Ukrainian and American nations,” Zelensky said in his nightly video address, even as a bipartisan bill to send $40 billion in additional aid remained stalled in Congress — while both Finland and Sweden inched closer to joining NATO.

The GOP visit, the latest in a string of high-level US trips to the war-torn nation as the Russian invasion grinds on, was “a strong signal of bipartisan support for Ukraine from the United States Congress and the American people,” Zelensky wrote on his official Instagram account.

“Thank you for your leadership in helping us fight not only for our country, but also for democratic values and freedoms,” the president added. “We really appreciate it.”

McConnell, along with Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine), John Cornyn (R-Tex.), and John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), made the trip just two days after their fellow Republican, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, forced a temporary halt to the massive military and humanitarian aid bill.

A top Zelensky aide wrote that the visit signaled an imminent end to the impasse in Congress.

more
https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/mitch-mcconnell-republicans-visit-kyiv-as-russia-threatens-nato/#
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 15, 2022, 02:30:25 pm
Quote
McConnell, along with Sens. Susan Collins (R-Maine), John Cornyn (R-Tex.), and John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), made the trip just two days after their fellow Republican, Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky, forced a temporary halt to the massive military and humanitarian aid bill.

@mystery-ak

I never thought I would ever post anything like this,but WTF is wrong with Ron Paul? Is he such an attention junkie now that he is willing to cut off his own nose to spite his face?

Does this idiot NOT understand the money spent now to weaken Russia militarily will be repaid back many times over in future defense budgets?

Once and IF Russia is forced to be less aggressive military and sane people take over control there,the only nation left that is a legitimate threat to world peace is China?

Even THEY won't be a threat to world peace much longer if we continue to ship all our factories and technology there in order to cut expenses and make stock holders even richer. NOT a plan I am in favor of,though. After all,what good does it do America to make China a civilized nation if we destroy our own economy and put workers out of work to do so?

BTW,is it time yet to start making public the addresses and names of the board members of major corporations like GM that are sending our jobs and technology to China in order to increase profits?

Anyone else thing it is time to start doing this?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 15, 2022, 02:43:39 pm
Quote
Zelensky asks US to designate Russia a ‘terrorist state’ after McConnell visit

BTW,the US would be foolish to do anything that freaking stupid.

The idea IS,or SHOULD be,to help Ukraine  continue to weaken the Russian military while staying "One Step Removed" from the hostilities. That was we,and others,can help broker a possible peace agreement to the two that will leave Ukraine free,and Russia weakened militarily as well as MUCH less aggressive.

Push their backs against the wall and get in their faces,and all you will accomplish is to make them even more belligerent.

The IDEA is to make them LESS aggressive. Let Ukraine,with the help of western nations providing arms,ammunition,medical supplies,etc,etc,etc,force Russian forces back into Russia,and then let the Russian people and the MUCH younger second tier leadership force the militant communist geezers out of power.

The result would be a MUCH safer world,and quite possibly a LOT less money spend by western nations on offensive weapons and related expenses. Money that can then be spent paying off debts and reducing taxes.

Win/win for everbody,including Russia.

Well,not so much of a win for defense contractors,but they will just have to find other areas to make money than war.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 15, 2022, 05:10:37 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSy5pdhX0AgRuTh?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 15, 2022, 06:58:47 pm
@mystery-ak
I never thought I would ever post anything like this,but WTF is wrong with Ron Paul? Is he such an attention junkie now that he is willing to cut off his own nose to spite his face?

Does this idiot NOT understand the money spent now to weaken Russia militarily will be repaid back many times over in future defense budgets?
My opinion, only one tenth of this money will actually make it to Ukraine.
Only one tenth of the money which actually makes it to Ukraine, will end up being spent on "weakening Russia".
This is pie-in-the-sky thinking where everyone does what they say they will do, and everything is as it appears.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 15, 2022, 07:08:43 pm
My opinion, only one tenth of this money will actually make it to Ukraine.
Only one tenth of the money which actually makes it to Ukraine, will end up being spent on "weakening Russia".
This is pie-in-the-sky thinking where everyone does what they say they will do, and everything is as it appears.

@240B

So what? Isn't this pretty much standard these days?

Besides,10 percent is better than nothing,and it is up to "We,the voters" to elect people that will do their best to stop the graft,and I find it impossible to believe these days that the pols can hide it well enough it can't be found.

OUR job,as voters,is to vote for people who will work to end the graft. THEIR job as politicians is to follow the will of the people. This has nothing to do with Ukraine or the Russians,and everything to do with America.

And,truth to tell,with the idiots in office now it should be easier than ever to track down and indict the people stealing the money via kickbacks and various other schemes. Hell,the Biden family practically brags about it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 15, 2022, 07:29:39 pm
All Rand Paul is proposing, which turned Washington D.C. on its head, is that a senior general accountant be assigned to the money to monitor and document where it goes and where it is spent. This very normal small caveat was enough to send all the politicians supporting it into frenzied wails of consternation while wearing sack clothes and dumping ashes on their heads.

The united political opposition to any kind of oversight on $40, 000, 000, 000 U.S. Dollars going to God-knows-where should show anyone what the politicians have in mind. They intend to steal it through kickbacks and laundering. And Zelinsky the Great has always been their go-to guy for just this sort of thing.

This 40 billion U.S. dollars has much more to do with the people pushing for it than it does with 'helping Ukraine' or 'weakening Russia'. Those are just the passwords the thieves are using to get the money released to the ethereal international economic 'cloud' where they can pick it off and skim it at will.

If the money is released on a Monday, and Putin dies and the war ends on Tuesday, not one single penny of this money will ever make it back to America. It will all just mysteriously vanish in a puff of smoke, with no record of where it went or who got paid. That's how this stuff always works.

No need to rob the bank, when the criminals own and run the bank to start with.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 15, 2022, 10:00:08 pm
All Rand Paul is proposing, which turned Washington D.C. on its head, is that a senior general accountant be assigned to the money to monitor and document where it goes and where it is spent. 

@240B

The ONLY people who can complain about that are the people who were planning on stealing it.

They may see it as "getting my cut",but it's stealing. The problem is we,the people,have been letting them get away with this for so many decades now that they see skimming cash from spending bills of all types as a right of office.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 15, 2022, 10:18:56 pm
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald

If the US continues to spend at this rate for war in Ukraine, that projected $554b will be far more than any nation spends for its *entire military*.

Excerpts from NYT article headlined: "House Passes $40 Billion More, **With Few Questions Asked**"

Total amount US has allocated to war in Ukraine **after 10 weeks**: $54 billion.

- Average *annual* amount US spent for its war in Afghanistan: $46b.

- Total Russian military budget for the entire year: $69b.

- Projected US expenditure on war in Ukraine for one year: $554b.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSvPgEcWUAAEnv1?format=jpg&name=360x360)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSvPgEZX0AIHnkW?format=jpg&name=360x360)

More:  https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/us/politics/congress-ukraine-aid-questions.html

2:21 PM · May 14, 2022   Twitter Web App


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 15, 2022, 10:58:07 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/ay9P8Zb_460s.jpg)

The guy is either hyper-optimistic, or he really is deranged.
Finish what is on your plate first ... then worry about what's for dessert.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 15, 2022, 11:01:40 pm
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald

If the US continues to spend at this rate for war in Ukraine, that projected $554b will be far more than any nation spends for its *entire military*.

Excerpts from NYT article headlined: "House Passes $40 Billion More, **With Few Questions Asked**"

Total amount US has allocated to war in Ukraine **after 10 weeks**: $54 billion.

- Average *annual* amount US spent for its war in Afghanistan: $46b.

- Total Russian military budget for the entire year: $69b.

- Projected US expenditure on war in Ukraine for one year: $554b.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSvPgEcWUAAEnv1?format=jpg&name=360x360)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSvPgEZX0AIHnkW?format=jpg&name=360x360)

More:  https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/10/us/politics/congress-ukraine-aid-questions.html

2:21 PM · May 14, 2022   Twitter Web App

Projected?

Whatever these people "project" is useless.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 15, 2022, 11:14:06 pm
Where is the $56 billion 'to Ukraine' actually going?
The Dossier, May 13, 2022, Jordan Schachtel

Wherever your opinion resides on this proxy war/inter-slavic spat 5,000 miles away on the Russia-Ukraine border region, reality cannot be denied.

The $56 billion and counting in “aid for Ukraine” that’s passing through the American legislature primarily serves the purpose of greasing the skids of the D.C. Beltway ruling class. And you’re paying for it.

If you think the people of Ukraine are going to see one dime of this money, think again. Not even the “humanitarian aid” portions of the assistance will reach the Ukrainian people, as it will be absorbed by a variety of DC lawyers, lobbyists, NGOs, and other well connected middle men. See: Afghanistan.

If they gave the bill a more accurate title, it would be called the “Money For Raytheon And Friends” bill, as the majority of the funds from the latest $40 billion behemoth will be used to supply weapons purchase orders, and resupply weapons that were already sent to Ukraine, which arrived with a seeming back room deal to add to the deep pockets of the weapons manufacturers back home.

Those who have become consumed by corporate press and government war propaganda are being used as useful marks for this agenda

Since the beginning of this conflict, our corporate press and government propagandists (yes, one in the same) have been labeling the war with a nonsensical good vs evil narrative, which has helped to demand consensus in D.C. Notably, not a single Democrat voted against the bill. Republicans largely support it, and the Uniparty is outraged that Rand Paul decided to hold up its “emergency” passage.


More:  https://dossier.substack.com/p/where-is-the-56-billion-to-ukraine?r=ovl6s&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 15, 2022, 11:14:53 pm
Projected?

Whatever these people "project" is useless.

It's most likey too low.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 15, 2022, 11:17:51 pm
All Rand Paul is proposing, which turned Washington D.C. on its head, is that a senior general accountant be assigned to the money to monitor and document where it goes and where it is spent. This very normal small caveat was enough to send all the politicians supporting it into frenzied wails of consternation while wearing sack clothes and dumping ashes on their heads.

The united political opposition to any kind of oversight on $40, 000, 000, 000, 000 U.S. Dollars going to God-knows-where should show anyone what the politicians have in mind. They intend to steal it through kickbacks and laundering. And Zelinsky the Great has always been their go-to guy for just this sort of thing.

This 40 billion U.S. dollars has much more to do with the people pushing for it than it does with 'helping Ukraine' or 'weakening Russia'. Those are just the passwords the thieves are using to get the money released to the ethereal international economic 'cloud' where they can pick it off and skim it at will.

If the money is released on a Monday, and Putin dies and the war ends on Tuesday, not one single penny of this money will ever make it back to America. It will all just mysteriously vanish in a puff of smoke, with no record of where it went or who got paid. That's how this stuff always works.

No need to rob the bank, when the criminals own and run the bank to start with.
I think you have three extra zeroes in there.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 15, 2022, 11:22:55 pm
Where is the $56 billion 'to Ukraine' actually going?
The Dossier, May 13, 2022, Jordan Schachtel

Wherever your opinion resides on this proxy war/inter-slavic spat 5,000 miles away on the Russia-Ukraine border region, reality cannot be denied.

The $56 billion and counting in “aid for Ukraine” that’s passing through the American legislature primarily serves the purpose of greasing the skids of the D.C. Beltway ruling class. And you’re paying for it.

If you think the people of Ukraine are going to see one dime of this money, think again. Not even the “humanitarian aid” portions of the assistance will reach the Ukrainian people, as it will be absorbed by a variety of DC lawyers, lobbyists, NGOs, and other well connected middle men. See: Afghanistan.

If they gave the bill a more accurate title, it would be called the “Money For Raytheon And Friends” bill, as the majority of the funds from the latest $40 billion behemoth will be used to supply weapons purchase orders, and resupply weapons that were already sent to Ukraine, which arrived with a seeming back room deal to add to the deep pockets of the weapons manufacturers back home.

Those who have become consumed by corporate press and government war propaganda are being used as useful marks for this agenda

Since the beginning of this conflict, our corporate press and government propagandists (yes, one in the same) have been labeling the war with a nonsensical good vs evil narrative, which has helped to demand consensus in D.C. Notably, not a single Democrat voted against the bill. Republicans largely support it, and the Uniparty is outraged that Rand Paul decided to hold up its “emergency” passage.


More:  https://dossier.substack.com/p/where-is-the-56-billion-to-ukraine?r=ovl6s&s=r&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
No one is debating that the "big guy" is getting a rake, and likely a lot is being skimmed or diverted along the way. The biggest crooks are on this side of the pond.
As for Zelenskyy, maybe he is skimming maybe not, but what the Ukraine is actually getting is likely a small fraction of the amounts claimed, just as when Poland was willing to send MiGs over and the US sat on them. If anything, that pointer out where the supply chain problems actually are, just like other supply chain issues this administration has created.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 15, 2022, 11:25:36 pm
Gina Bontempo
@FlorioGina

At this point you'd think people would realize that putting the Ukraine flag in your bio is a surefire way to inform everyone that you are not to be taken seriously and your understanding of global conflict came from a Disney movie.

1:25 PM · May 15, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 15, 2022, 11:54:28 pm
Russia has lost a THIRD of its invasion force in combat, claims British intelligence as Ukrainian troops launch counter-offensive in eastern Ukraine and Putin's advance 'loses momentum'


DAVID AVERRE  |  05:47 EDT, 15 May 2022  |  UPDATED: 13:10 EDT, 15 May 2022


Ukraine's armed forces have launched a counter-offensive on the Russian-held city of Izyum in what could prove to be a major turning point in the battle for the country's east.

Izyum is one of the largest cities in the Kharkiv oblast and sits less than 15 miles from the regional border with Donetsk - part of the infamous Donbas region which Russian President Vladimir Putin is hell bent on seizing.

Liberating the city from Russian occupation would provide Ukrainian forces with a key strategic position on the Donets river from which to launch further counter-offensives to drive Putin's forces back into the Donbas.

The counter-attack in Izyum comes just one day after the general staff of the armed forces of Ukraine announced they had successfully repelled Russian forces from the second city Kharkiv, a mere 40 miles from the Russian border.

But a Ukrainian military spokesperson admitted that Russian units had advanced elsewhere, gaining ground in a number of smaller cities and towns along the eastern front.  .  .  .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10817905/Ukrainian-forces-launch-counter-offensive-NATO-official-says-Putins-advance-losing-momentum.html



An assault on Izyum marks a change in Ukraine strategy.  The bulk of Russia's reinforcements lie to the east.  If they are successful, they will be in position to threaten Russian supply lines southward.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 16, 2022, 12:58:29 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/azeQABj_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 16, 2022, 01:01:50 am
I think you have three extra zeroes in there.
@Smokin Joe

Yes. You are right. Cannot think of any reason for me doing that. Old age I guess?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 16, 2022, 01:41:25 am
My opinion, only one tenth of this money will actually make it to Ukraine.
Only one tenth of the money which actually makes it to Ukraine, will end up being spent on "weakening Russia".

That's a very optimistic assessment.  You really think $400 million of it will be spent on offensive military equipment delivered to Ukraine?  I would guess maybe a fourth of that.  $100 million of a $40 billion package sounds about right.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 16, 2022, 02:19:08 am
@Smokin Joe

Yes. You are right. Cannot think of any reason for me doing that. Old age I guess?
Maybe you just got carried away typing those in...like Congress does. :laugh:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 16, 2022, 02:20:11 am
That's a very optimistic assessment.  You really think $400 million of it will be spent on offensive military equipment delivered to Ukraine?  I would guess maybe a fourth of that.  $100 million of a $40 billion package sounds about right.
If "infrastructure" spending is any indicator of how much actually goes to the headline cause, you may be optimistic.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 16, 2022, 04:08:07 am
What are Brussels and Davos going to do with no resistance or competition in Europe?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSupbzyWYAECaPx?format=jpg&name=small)

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/b2/49/63b24925668b0bd8d0073d687651b995.jpg)

(https://alexhickman.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/great-reset-thumbnail.png)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 16, 2022, 11:46:49 am
Russian ambassador hints some Kremlin officials want war to end: reports

By Natalie O'Neill
May 15, 2022

Russia’s ambassador to the US hinted at a split in the Kremlin Sunday — as NATO declared Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine is not going to plan, according to reports.

Anatoly Antonov, a military officer and diplomat, implied during an appearance on state-run TV that some powerful people inside the Kremlin are ready to give up the brutal invasion, which began more than two months ago.

The 67-year-old senior diplomat — who insisted he’s not among those willing to fold — said some forces want to move back troops and “repent.”

He added that US officials are covertly giving the Kremlin the terms of negotiations — including moving back troops — in order to stop the fighting.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/15/russian-ambassador-hints-that-some-officials-want-war-to-end/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 16, 2022, 11:48:43 am
Russia’s Vladimir Putin ‘very ill’ with blood cancer: secret recording

By Eileen AJ Connelly
May 14, 2022

Russian President Vladimir Putin is “very ill with blood cancer,” an oligarch close to the Kremlin said in a secret recording obtained by New Lines Magazine.

The type of cancer was unspecified, New Lines reported in a story discussing myriad rumors about Putin’s health.

“The recording represents rare testimony by someone with proven ties to the Russian government that its fanatical dictator may well be seriously unwell,” the magazine stated of the comments made during a mid-March discussion with someone described as a “Western venture capitalist.”

“He absolutely ruined Russia’s economy, Ukraine’s economy and many other economies — ruined [them] absolutely,” the unnamed oligarch said of Putin on the tape. “The problem is with his head. … One crazy guy can turn the world upside down.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/russias-vladimir-putin-ill-with-blood-cancer-secret-recording/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 16, 2022, 11:50:22 am
Russian forces retreat as Ukraine appears to win Battle of Kharkiv

By Eileen AJ Connelly
May 14, 2022

Ukraine “appears to have won the Battle of Kharkiv,” a US think tank said.

The Russian military has withdrawn from its positions around Ukraine’s second-largest city “in the face of Ukrainian counteroffensives and the limited availability of reinforcements,” said the Institute for the Study of War (ISW).

Russian units were unable to hold ground against the Ukrainian fighters over the past several days, the ISW said, and were prevented from encircling the city in northeast Ukraine.

As they retreated, however, they continued to bombard the eastern Donetsk province in order to “deplete Ukrainian forces and destroy fortifications,” the Ukrainian military said Saturday.

Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov said the country was “entering a new – long-term – phase of the war.”

The comments came two days after a major Ukranian victory at the Siverskiy Donets River, an area about 25 miles east of Kharkiv which Russia previously controlled. The battle ended with Russian tanks and other destroyed equipment littering the area around the river.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/russian-forces-retreat-as-ukraine-appears-to-win-battle-of-kharkiv/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 16, 2022, 11:53:37 am
Russia has lost a THIRD of its invasion force in combat, claims British intelligence as Ukrainian troops launch counter-offensive in eastern Ukraine and Putin's advance 'loses momentum'

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
15 May 2022

Ukraine's armed forces have launched a counter-offensive on the Russian-held city of Izyum in what could prove to be a major turning point in the battle for the country's east.

Izyum is one of the largest cities in the Kharkiv oblast and sits less than 15 miles from the regional border with Donetsk - part of the infamous Donbas region which Russian President Vladimir Putin is hell bent on seizing.

Liberating the city from Russian occupation would provide Ukrainian forces with a key strategic position on the Donets river from which to launch further counter-offensives to drive Putin's forces back into the Donbas.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10817905/Ukrainian-forces-launch-counter-offensive-NATO-official-says-Putins-advance-losing-momentum.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 16, 2022, 11:56:36 am
Putin's commanders are slaughtering their own wounded soldiers rather than retrieving them from the battlefield for medical treatment, captured Russian soldiers reveal

By WILL STEWART and JACK NEWMAN and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
16 May 2022

Russian commanders are slaughtering their own wounded soldiers instead of retrieving them from the battlefield for treatment, Putin's own troops have said.

A lieutenant-colonel was accused of personally shooting dead multiple troops as they lay injured.

It comes as investigations in the horror town of Bucha have revealed 650 civilians were shot rather than hit by shelling in what police say proves they were executed by Russian thugs.

But their barbarity is not directed only towards the Ukrainians, as Russians spoke out about the brutal killings of their own forces within the ranks.

Captured troops recalled one commander asking a soldier if he could walk after suffering an injury, and when the man replied he could not, the officer killed him instantly.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10820515/Putins-commanders-slaughtering-wounded-soldiers-captured-Russian-troops-reveal.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 16, 2022, 12:42:20 pm
Russia’s Vladimir Putin ‘very ill’ with blood cancer: secret recording

By Eileen AJ Connelly
May 14, 2022

Russian President Vladimir Putin is “very ill with blood cancer,” an oligarch close to the Kremlin said in a secret recording obtained by New Lines Magazine.   The type of cancer was unspecified, New Lines reported in a story discussing myriad rumors about Putin’s health.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10817905/Ukrainian-forces-launch-counter-offensive-NATO-official-says-Putins-advance-losing-momentum.html

Xi Jinping to step down as Chinese President? Rumors buzz over CPC leader's ill-health, Covid mismanagement
May 15, 2022

After several reports claimed that China's President Xi Jinping is suffering from 'cerebral aneurysm', the country's social media is buzzing with rumours that the Chinese Premier might resign from the top post soon.

More:  https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/world/xi-jinping-to-step-down-as-chinese-president-rumors-buzz-over-cpc-leader-ill-health-covid-mismanagement-economy-fall-2022-05-15-776711
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 16, 2022, 12:56:23 pm
Putin's commanders are slaughtering their own wounded soldiers rather than retrieving them from the battlefield for medical treatment, captured Russian soldiers reveal

Russian commanders are slaughtering their own wounded soldiers instead of retrieving them from the battlefield for treatment, Putin's own troops have said.

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10820515/Putins-commanders-slaughtering-wounded-soldiers-captured-Russian-troops-reveal.html

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Looks like the Ukrainians at Azovstal are getting ready to surrender their wounded into Russian custody; according to Khodakovsky they've asked for stretchers to carry them.

8:11 AM · May 16, 2022·Twitter for Android


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 16, 2022, 01:23:12 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Looks like the Ukrainians at Azovstal are getting ready to surrender their wounded into Russian custody; according to Khodakovsky they've asked for stretchers to carry them.

8:11 AM · May 16, 2022·Twitter for Android

This Russian propaganda site was saying the same thing a month ago.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 16, 2022, 01:37:39 pm
How long before Russian soldiers start fragging their own officers?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 16, 2022, 03:06:28 pm
How long before Russian soldiers start fragging their own officers?

There are reports that they have been. Who knows to what degree if any.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 16, 2022, 03:33:41 pm
Dramatic audio captures Russian warship’s final moments after Ukraine missile strike

By Yaron Steinbuch
May 16, 2022

Dramatic audio captured the final moments of the Russian Black Sea flagship Moskva after it was struck by a Ukrainian missile – as a crewman shouts that the doomed vessel was “lying on its side” and sinking.

 “Moskva-1, two holes! Propeller stalled! Sinking! Lying on its side!” the sailor yells after the warship was hit April 14, the Kyiv Independent reported on the audio posted by Ukraine’s Operational Command “South.”

The frantic crew member also says a hole under the waterline sent the vaunted guided-missile cruiser into a roll of 30 degrees.

“There is no way to get closer to the tugboats,” he reportedly adds in the 42-second transmission. “We’re doing our best to save the crew.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/16/audio-captures-russian-ship-moskva-after-ukraine-missile-strike/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 16, 2022, 03:36:55 pm
Russian forces are continuing to focus their attacks on the east of the country but resistance from Ukrainian troops is slowing their progress.

Here are the latest developments:

    Strong Ukrainian defences in Donbas region holding for now
    Russian forces pushed out further from second-city Kharkiv
    Ongoing bombardment of Mariupol factory by Russian forces
    Belarus deploys some forces near Ukraine border
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/89B8/production/_124765253_ukraine_russian_control_areas_map-nc.jpg)
More at BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 16, 2022, 04:38:19 pm
Dramatic audio captures Russian warship’s final moments after Ukraine missile strike

By Yaron Steinbuch
May 16, 2022

Dramatic audio captured the final moments of the Russian Black Sea flagship Moskva after it was struck by a Ukrainian missile – as a crewman shouts that the doomed vessel was “lying on its side” and sinking.

 “Moskva-1, two holes! Propeller stalled! Sinking! Lying on its side!” the sailor yells after the warship was hit April 14, the Kyiv Independent reported on the audio posted by Ukraine’s Operational Command “South.”

The frantic crew member also says a hole under the waterline sent the vaunted guided-missile cruiser into a roll of 30 degrees.

“There is no way to get closer to the tugboats,” he reportedly adds in the 42-second transmission. “We’re doing our best to save the crew.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/16/audio-captures-russian-ship-moskva-after-ukraine-missile-strike/

And Russia entirely lied about this event. They lied saying that the crew had been safely evacuated and they lied about the cause of the damage. Russia has proven itself no different than all the other dictatorships around the world - while claiming to be democratic.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 16, 2022, 04:59:25 pm
Russian forces retreat as Ukraine appears to win Battle of Kharkiv

By Eileen AJ Connelly
May 14, 2022

Ukraine “appears to have won the Battle of Kharkiv,” a US think tank said.

The Russian military has withdrawn from its positions around Ukraine’s second-largest city “in the face of Ukrainian counteroffensives and the limited availability of reinforcements,” said the Institute for the Study of War (ISW).

Russian units were unable to hold ground against the Ukrainian fighters over the past several days, the ISW said, and were prevented from encircling the city in northeast Ukraine.

As they retreated, however, they continued to bombard the eastern Donetsk province in order to “deplete Ukrainian forces and destroy fortifications,” the Ukrainian military said Saturday.

Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov said the country was “entering a new – long-term – phase of the war.”

The comments came two days after a major Ukranian victory at the Siverskiy Donets River, an area about 25 miles east of Kharkiv which Russia previously controlled. The battle ended with Russian tanks and other destroyed equipment littering the area around the river.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/russian-forces-retreat-as-ukraine-appears-to-win-battle-of-kharkiv/
Scorched earth withdrawal is a typically Russian tactic, going back to Stalin and beyond.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 16, 2022, 05:00:17 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Looks like the Ukrainians at Azovstal are getting ready to surrender their wounded into Russian custody; according to Khodakovsky they've asked for stretchers to carry them.

8:11 AM · May 16, 2022·Twitter for Android

Russia says wounded Ukrainian soldiers will be evacuated from Azovstal to Russian-occupied territories of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts
Yahoo News, May 16, 2022

The Russian Ministry of Defence says that an agreement has been reached regarding the evacuation of wounded Ukrainian soldiers from the besieged Azovstal plant in Mariupol to the Russian-occupied territories of Ukraine.

On 16 May, an agreement has been reached regarding the evacuation of the wounded [soldiers] as a result of negotiations with the Ukrainian military personnel blocked at the Azovstal steel works in Mariupol.

According to the Russian Ministry of Defence, a ceasefire at Azovstal has already begun and a humanitarian corridor has been opened to transport wounded Ukrainian soldiers to a hospital in Russian-occupied Novoazovsk, a town located in the Temporarily Occupied Territories of Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts.

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-wounded-ukrainian-soldiers-132904781.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 16, 2022, 05:01:12 pm
And Russia entirely lied about this event. They lied saying that the crew had been safely evacuated and they lied about the cause of the damage. Russia has proven itself no different than all the other dictatorships around the world - while claiming to be democratic.
When only 120 showed up for the ceremony, of a crew of nearly 500, you knew the casualty figures were much higher than the Government was willing to admit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 16, 2022, 05:04:23 pm
Putin's commanders are slaughtering their own wounded soldiers rather than retrieving them from the battlefield for medical treatment, captured Russian soldiers reveal

By WILL STEWART and JACK NEWMAN and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
16 May 2022

Russian commanders are slaughtering their own wounded soldiers instead of retrieving them from the battlefield for treatment, Putin's own troops have said.

A lieutenant-colonel was accused of personally shooting dead multiple troops as they lay injured.

It comes as investigations in the horror town of Bucha have revealed 650 civilians were shot rather than hit by shelling in what police say proves they were executed by Russian thugs.

But their barbarity is not directed only towards the Ukrainians, as Russians spoke out about the brutal killings of their own forces within the ranks.

Captured troops recalled one commander asking a soldier if he could walk after suffering an injury, and when the man replied he could not, the officer killed him instantly.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10820515/Putins-commanders-slaughtering-wounded-soldiers-captured-Russian-troops-reveal.html
In that cold calculus, one wounded trooper will require between two and four others to evacuate and care for them. That slows an army down, reduces its effective numbers, and takes up transport and supplies for those who cannot fight. One dead soldier is one less, one wounded is five less on the battle front.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 16, 2022, 05:07:16 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Reports coming in that not only wounded soldiers are surrendering. No visual confirmation or details yet.

9:40 AM · May 16, 2022·Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 16, 2022, 08:18:24 pm
Russia's offensive in Eastern Ukraine has FAILED, says top propagandist as incredible pictures show inside of Azovstal steel plant and Russians bombard Ukrainians with thermobaric missiles

By KATIE FEEHAN and WILL STEWART and JACK NEWMAN and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
16 May 2022

One of Putin's top propagandists has declared Russia's offensive in the Donbas region has failed as incredible pictures show the inside of the steel plant at Azovstal which has been under siege for much of the war.

Russian intelligence officer and commander Igor Girkin took to his Telegram channel to summarise the situation for Russian forces in Ukraine and said their intention was 'so obvious' that Ukraine Armed Forces have been able to resist.

Meanwhile, incredible photos have been shared of the inside of Azovstal steel works - which has been under siege in Mariupol for months - after wounded Ukrainian soldiers were evacuated.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10822509/Russias-offensive-Eastern-Ukraine-FAILED-says-propagandist.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 16, 2022, 09:03:42 pm
Bloggers In Russia Criticize Military After Ukraine Bridge Attack

 MSNBC

Russian bloggers are shocked at their military's "incompetence" during the invasion of Ukraine, according to a new report. The Morning Joe panel discusses the latest in the invasion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27FjpCAlTmA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27FjpCAlTmA)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 01:23:36 am
Ukrainian women reveal their rape ordeal and say Russian soldiers must 'be punished'

As two women tell Sky News their harrowing stories, the Ukrainian authorities are conducting at least 10 active rape investigations involving Russian forces, with many more pending.

Deborah Haynes  |  16 May 2022  |  10:37, UK

Pointing to a grubby, grey sofa in the corner of a small room in her neighbour's house, the Ukrainian mother said that was where a teenage Russian soldier raped her.


It happened during an evening of terror, cruelty and murder in a rural village outside Kyiv.

Vika, 42, said she decided to speak about the attack on camera to encourage other rape survivors in Ukraine to talk about what Russian forces did to them.

"I want women who also [have been raped] - I know there are a lot of them - not to stay silent," she told Sky News in the dingy room where the attack took place in March.

"You need to talk. They [the Russian soldiers] need to be punished."

(https://e3.365dm.com/22/05/2048x1152/skynews-ukraine-vika-rape_5772856.jpg)
Vika says she was treated 'like a prostitute'

The Ukrainian authorities are conducting at least 10 active rape investigations involving Russian forces, with many more pending, including alleged rapes of children and men.

It is a difficult and deeply sensitive task because many of the victims are too traumatised to speak out or are unwilling to report an assault, said deputy interior minister Kateryna Pavlichenko.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukrainian-women-reveal-their-rape-ordeal-and-say-russian-soldiers-must-be-punished-12613584
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 01:42:19 am
Marianna Vyshemirsky: 'My picture was used to spread lies about the war'

Marianna Spring  |  1 hour ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/ABA0/production/_124763934_ap_22072350549255.jpg)
The beauty influencer was accused of being an actor after this photo was published

A photo of a heavily pregnant woman fleeing a bombed maternity hospital became one of the most iconic images of the war in Ukraine. But its subject was targeted by an extraordinary Russian disinformation campaign and she received hate from both sides.

Wrapped in a duvet with her forehead bloodied, Marianna Vyshemirsky's image was seen around the world.

The photo above was taken in the aftermath of a Russian airstrike in Mariupol. It circulated online, on newspaper front pages, and was argued about at the UN Security Council.

But, having survived one attack, Marianna faced another onslaught - of disinformation and hate aimed at her and her family.

As Russia attempted to sow falsehoods about the attack, 29-year-old Marianna was falsely accused of "acting". Russian diplomats even claimed that she had "played" not one, but two different women.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/14B2E/production/_124728748_mariannabbcsmile.jpg)
Marianna on a video call during her interview with the BBC

https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-61412773



Setting the record straight since part of that Russian disinformation campaign had been posted here earlier.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 01:47:06 am
Pinned down by Russian fire in key frontline village

Quentin Sommerville  -  near Izyum, eastern Ukraine  |  13 hours ago

Serhiy drove like a maniac. Before the war, the laconic Ukrainian was a lawyer. Now he sat in the front of a Mitsubishi pick-up, barrelling along a dirt road at 65mph (100km/h).


Three of us were crammed in the back and the seat belts didn't work. But that was the least of anyone's worries - up ahead lay our destination, and it was being shelled by Russian artillery.

The car swerved to avoid a spent Russian shell stuck in the earth. "Cluster bomb," said Serhiy. It felt as though it could be a marker - a warning to travel no further.

"Do you want to see the village first, or our bunker?" he asked as the green pickup lurched to a halt. "Bunker," cameraman Darren Conway and I said in unison.

Vladimir Putin has turned day into night along Ukraine's eastern front, forcing people underground. This village lay at the edge of Izyum, where Russian forces are concentrated. The artillery barrage was ending as we descended into the cool darkness of the shelter.

After its failure to take the whole country, Russia is focused instead on taking Ukraine in pieces. The men in the bunker - and there are many of them - are here to ensure that doesn't happen.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61460790
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 03:35:43 am
Ukrainian 227th Battalion of the Territorial Self-Defense Forces has reached the Russian border east of Kharkiv

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWEuj2YRZPY)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 04:40:50 am
Separatist DPR Civilians Protest Against Mobilisation

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/uq493h/separatist_dpr_civilians_protest_against/



What they are really protesting is that the Russians have left them high and dry.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 12:44:31 pm
'The whole world is against us': Retired colonel gives damning assessment of Russia's war in Ukraine on state TV as he urges Putin to 'get out of' the conflict

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
17 May 2022

Russian state media's trumped-up narrative of Putin's glorious war in Ukraine was last night shattered by a retired colonel who gave an unusually frank and damning assessment of the situation on the frontlines and world stage.

Mikhail Khodarenok, a former air defence commander and graduate of some of the Soviet Union's top military schools, used his platform on one of Russia's most-watched talk shows to warn that the war is going badly and is likely to get worse, and that nuclear sabre-rattling - far from being threatening - actually 'looks quite amusing'.

Ukraine, he said, will soon have mobilised more than a million soldiers who will be trained by the West and equipped with modern weapons, ready to fight and die to protect their homeland against Russia.

*  *  *

Khodarenok's remarks, broadcast to millions of Russians who until now have been spoon-fed a narrative of their military's prowess and Ukraine's weakness, mark a stunning break with the state-sanctioned narrative and puts him at extreme odds with the Kremlin stooges stood to either side of him.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10823981/Ukraine-war-Retired-colonel-tells-Russian-state-media-world-against-us.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 12:45:53 pm
Putin the 'meddling colonel': Russian president is making tactical decisions as Ukrainian forces drive his army back to the border and top Kremlin propagandist says offensive in Eastern Ukraine has FAILED

By KATIE FEEHAN and WILLL STEWART and JACK NEWMAN and CHRIS PLEASANCE  and TOM BROWN FOR MAILONLINE
16 May 2022

Vladimir Putin is dictating on-the-ground troop movements in Ukraine as his army falters, according to Western military sources.

General Valery Gerasimov is also said to be making similar tactical decisions, micro-managing the war in minute detail which would normally be overseen by a colonel.

'We think Putin and Gerasimov are involved in tactical decision-making at a level we would normally expect to be taken by a colonel or a brigadier', said a Western military source, according to The Guardian.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10823033/Putin-meddling-colonel-Russian-president-making-tactical-decisions-troops.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 12:48:44 pm
Russia is hit with yet another mystery blaze: Flames engulf chemical plant adding to speculation over Ukrainian 'sabotage' after series of deadly fires at military sites

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
17 May 2022

A mysterious fire has broken out at a Russian chemical plant today, amid mounting suspicion Ukraine is targeting infrastructure in Russia.

The blaze engulfed a plant making plastic in Berdsk, in the central Novosibirsk region, one of a series of suspected incidents of sabotage within Russia over the past few weeks.

Video showed thick black smoke rising up from burning building, with the fire ripping through the chemical plant's roof.

The blaze appears to have destroyed production facilities, offices and a canteen. There were no reports of fatalities.

It is the latest in a series of infernos at industrial facilities and military sites in Russia since Vladimir Putin's men invaded Ukraine, with some experts saying Ukraine is responsible for the 'sabotage' of plants - though Kyiv has not claimed responsibility for the damage.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10824709/Flames-engulf-chemical-plant-Russia-adding-speculation-Ukrainian-sabotage.html

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 12:56:59 pm
Sweden officially signs NATO application as Putin shows weakening resolve and admits he 'has no problem' with them or Finland and Lavrov says it is 'no big deal'

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
17 May 2022

Russian President Vladimir Putin has announced that he sees 'no problem' with Nordic neighbours Finland and Sweden joining NATO, mere hours before Sweden's foreign minister formally signed her nation's application to the security bloc.

Putin, Russia's paramount leader since 1999, has repeatedly pointed to the post-Soviet enlargement of NATO toward Russia's borders as a key driver behind his war in Ukraine.

But in a stunning declaration yesterday, the strongman abandoned his regime's typical sabre-rattling approach and instead offered a dramatically softened stance in the face of the biggest strategic consequence of the invasion to date.

'As to enlargement, Russia has no problem with these states - none. And so in this sense there is no immediate threat to Russia from an expansion (of NATO) to include these countries,' Putin told the leaders of the CSTO - a Russian-dominated security alliance of former Soviet states.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10824207/Sweden-officially-signs-NATO-application-Putin-shows-weakening-resolve.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 12:59:46 pm
War within Russia's secret services over bogus intelligence that led to invasion: Blame game erupts over 'worthless' info that meant 'Putin was the most uninformed person to decide about the war'

By WALTER FINCH and WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
17 May 2022

A bitter new blame game has erupted in Russia's secret services over the bogus intelligence that led Putin to believing his troops would be welcomed in Ukraine with open arms.

Much of the blame is being pointed at the door of the FSB's 5th Service for gathering 'worthless' information that misled Russian President Vladimir Putin and left him 'the most uninformed person to decide about the war'.

Disputed reports in April stated that Col-General Sergei Beseda, 68, head of the 5th Service, and his deputy, Anatoly Bolyukh, had been detained in April either under house arrest or under pre-trial detention for leaking plans and embezzling funds.

The 5th Service is known as the foreign spying arm of the FSB, charged primarily with intelligence and political subversion in former Soviet republics such as Ukraine and Kazakhstan.

It is also reportedly in charge of the Kremlin's 'kill list' of Ukrainian senior officials and other dissidents who live in Ukraine.

Sources have told IStories, a media outlet linked to Russia's top investigative journalists, that 'the level of professionalism there is worthless.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10824065/War-Russias-secret-services-bogus-intelligence-Blame-game-erupts-worthless-info.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 17, 2022, 01:32:45 pm
War within Russia's secret services over bogus intelligence that led to invasion: Blame game erupts over 'worthless' info that meant 'Putin was the most uninformed person to decide about the war'

By WALTER FINCH and WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
17 May 2022

A bitter new blame game has erupted in Russia's secret services over the bogus intelligence that led Putin to believing his troops would be welcomed in Ukraine with open arms.

Much of the blame is being pointed at the door of the FSB's 5th Service for gathering 'worthless' information that misled Russian President Vladimir Putin and left him 'the most uninformed person to decide about the war'.

Disputed reports in April stated that Col-General Sergei Beseda, 68, head of the 5th Service, and his deputy, Anatoly Bolyukh, had been detained in April either under house arrest or under pre-trial detention for leaking plans and embezzling funds.

The 5th Service is known as the foreign spying arm of the FSB, charged primarily with intelligence and political subversion in former Soviet republics such as Ukraine and Kazakhstan.

It is also reportedly in charge of the Kremlin's 'kill list' of Ukrainian senior officials and other dissidents who live in Ukraine.

Sources have told IStories, a media outlet linked to Russia's top investigative journalists, that 'the level of professionalism there is worthless.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10824065/War-Russias-secret-services-bogus-intelligence-Blame-game-erupts-worthless-info.html

The circular firing squad has begun.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 01:33:42 pm
The circular firing squad has begun.


So it would seem.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 02:39:44 pm
Putin, Russia's paramount leader since 1999, has repeatedly pointed to the post-Soviet enlargement of NATO toward Russia's borders as a key driver behind his war in Ukraine.

But in a stunning declaration yesterday, the strongman abandoned his regime's typical sabre-rattling approach and instead offered a dramatically softened stance in the face of the biggest strategic consequence of the invasion to date.

Russia had their bluff called, proving that their declared reason for invading Ukraine is pure bullshit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 02:43:58 pm
A bitter new blame game has erupted in Russia's secret services over the bogus intelligence that led Putin to believing his troops would be welcomed in Ukraine with open arms.

I don't believe this for a second.  Putin was quite open with his contempt for anything Ukrainian.  At no point did he envision free independent Donbas states, but instead pushed for the total subjugation of the entire country.  Drug addicts, indeed.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 02:47:17 pm
I don't believe this for a second.  Putin was quite open with his contempt for anything Ukrainian.  At no point did he envision free independent Donbas states, but instead pushed for the total subjugation of the entire country.  Drug addicts, indeed.

Yes, but that is what is apparently circulating in Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 17, 2022, 02:49:19 pm
Russia had their bluff called, proving that their declared reason for invading Ukraine is pure bullshit.

Their cards are face up on the table now. And their illusion of military capability has been laid bare for all to see. I wonder what China is thinking right now...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 02:54:10 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS9QmxoWQAAzj0H?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 17, 2022, 02:58:12 pm
Live|Russia-Ukraine latest news: Azov regiment fighters 'don't deserve to live', says Russian negotiator

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/17/ukraine-news-russia-war-latest-putin-sweden-nato-izyum/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/17/ukraine-news-russia-war-latest-putin-sweden-nato-izyum/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8KaWeI4l2M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8KaWeI4l2M)

Quote
•   Putin takes personal control of faltering Donbas offensive

•   Russian military recruitment centres hit by arson attacks

•   Ukraine will get worse for us, retired Russian colonel admits

•   Ukrainians rescued from Mariupol to be exchanged for Russians

•   Listen to the latest episode of our daily Ukraine podcast

A Russian lawmaker who has taken part in peace talks with Kyiv said that Moscow should consider the death penalty for fighters from Ukraine's Azov regiment.

In a debate in the lower house of Russia's parliament after the defenders of Mariupol’s Azovstal steelworks surrendered, lawmaker Leonid Slutsky said Russia should "think carefully" about capital punishment for the Azov fighters.

"They do not deserve to live after the monstrous crimes against humanity that they have committed and that are committed continuously against our prisoners", he added.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 03:18:22 pm
Russian military recruitment centres hit by spate of arson attacks

Videos posted online show men wearing hoodies and balaclavas attacking buildings as activists seek to undermine Ukraine war

By James Kilner
17 May 2022

Russia is facing a spate of arson attacks targeting military recruitment offices as local activists seek to derail Moscow's war in Ukraine.

Videos posted online show men wearing hoodies and balaclavas attacking what they say are recruitment centres with Molotov cocktails – a Russian street weapon and symbol of anti-establishment resistance.

Russian opposition reports said there had been eight arson attacks across the country, but commentators said several more may have gone unrecorded.

The anti-war VataHunters Telegram channel has claimed responsibility for some of the attacks, saying they were intended to undermine Russian morale and hinder the recruitment process.

"The goal has been to destroy the archive with the personal files of conscripts – it is located in these areas. This should prevent mobilisation in the district," VataHunters wrote after announcing an attack on a recruitment centre near Moscow.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/05/14/russian-military-recruitment-centres-hit-spate-arson-attacks/

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 03:23:27 pm
How Putin's plan to stop NATO expansion has completely backfired: Finland has one of Europe's largest artilleries, 280,000 wartime troops and 'superb' Russian-military intelligence gathering

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
17 May 2022

When Putin ordered his war against Ukraine back in February, he justified it by saying he could not allow the country to join NATO and bring the alliance to his doorstep.

But the move has massively backfired, with Finland and Sweden now set to break with decades of neutrality and join - bringing NATO to an 800-mile stretch of the Russian border while boosting the alliance with two top-of-the-range armies.

NATO chief Jens Stoltenburg says they will be welcomed 'with open arms', and it is easy to see why. With them they bring tens of thousands of troops, a formidable arsenal of artillery, top-notch spying capabilities and some of the quietest and deadliest submarines in the world.

And, crucially, all of those reinforcements will be positioned close to the Baltic states of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania which have long-been NATO's weakest spot and among the most-likely members to be attacked.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10824899/Ukraine-war-Finland-Swedens-military-capabilities-revealed-set-join-NATO.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 03:39:14 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

???

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS9QZvXWQAEpPzD?format=jpg&name=large)

7:37 AM · May 17, 2022   Twitter Web App


" i don't think the pope was involved in federal penitentiary service vehicles transporting the azovstal soldiers to a POW camp in russia"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526528654192304130
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 03:50:01 pm
Quote
Ukrainians rescued from Mariupol to be exchanged for Russians

Oops... looks like someone forgot to tell Russia this is a "rescue" operation    :laugh:

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

"Nazi criminals should not be exchanged. They are war criminals and we must do everything we can to bring them to justice" - Chairman of the Russian State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin

6:21 AM · May 17, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 04:01:53 pm
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

CNN is completely absurd. Like most US media, it essentially just operates as a repository for Ukraine government press releases -- which means it's now helping to obfuscate that the "outright Neo-Nazi" fighters have surrendered, and are in the custody of Russia

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS97_6IWIAAPHlr?format=jpg&name=900x900)


10:56 AM · May 17, 2022   Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 04:06:29 pm
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

This is why you have to assume that pretty much everything coming out of “Western” media about the tactical progression of the war is a distortion. They’re operating within an impenetrable superstructure of ideology that prevents the NYT from labeling this a “surrender”

Quote
The New York Times
@nytimes· 17h

Breaking News: Ukraine ended its “combat mission” in Mariupol and said fighters were being evacuated, signaling that the battle at a steel plant was over. https://nyti.ms/3sIon9B

2:44 AM · May 17, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 04:13:15 pm

" i don't think the pope was involved in federal penitentiary service vehicles transporting the azovstal soldiers to a POW camp in russia"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526528654192304130

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Slightly difficult to frame this as a heroic triumph when you finally do away with the euphemisms

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS-L3zYXEAA0geX?format=jpg&name=900x900)

11:59 AM · May 17, 2022   Twitter Web App

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 17, 2022, 04:19:36 pm
We actually have something in common with Ukraine:  Patriots of both countries are called "Nazis." 

There appears to be no hope for any correction of this when even Briefers constantly call the Ukes Nazis.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 04:37:48 pm
We actually have something in common with Ukraine:  Patriots of both countries are called "Nazis." 

There appears to be no hope for any correction of this when even Briefers constantly call the Ukes Nazis.

Please, do NOT conflate Ukrainian nazis with American right wing conservatives ... ever.  It would demonstrate a dangerous misunderstanding of both.  While such a mistake would save the nazis, it would be a death blow to American conservatives.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 04:39:52 pm
We actually have something in common with Ukraine:  Patriots of both countries are called "Nazis." 

There appears to be no hope for any correction of this when even Briefers constantly call the Ukes Nazis.


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 17, 2022, 04:49:18 pm
The Russians mis-appropriated the term "Nazi" to the Ukrainians as a propaganda tool to sell Putin's discretionary war of agression to Russian media's consumers.  Putin certainly couldn't call them Communists, because Putin is trying to re-create the Soviet Empire.

The casual politcally rhetorical use of the term "Nazi" normalizes the evil of the Hitler regime, diminishes the sacrifice of those who fought them, and cheapens the horrors they inflicted upon millions of people.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 04:53:12 pm
The Russians mis-appropriated the term "Nazi" to the Ukrainians as a propaganda tool to sell Putin's discretionary war of agression to Russian media's consumers.  Putin certainly couldn't call them Communists, because Putin is trying to re-create the Soviet Empire.

The casual politcally rhetorical use of the term "Nazi" normalizes the evil of the Hitler regime, diminishes the sacrifice of those who fought them, and cheapens the horrors they inflicted upon millions of people.

Well put.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 17, 2022, 05:17:35 pm
The Russians mis-appropriated the term "Nazi" to the Ukrainians as a propaganda tool to sell Putin's discretionary war of agression to Russian media's consumers.  Putin certainly couldn't call them Communists, because Putin is trying to re-create the Soviet Empire.

The casual politcally rhetorical use of the term "Nazi" normalizes the evil of the Hitler regime, diminishes the sacrifice of those who fought them, and cheapens the horrors they inflicted upon millions of people.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/21a157d32539f95c14c95899bce099a6/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 05:19:40 pm
The Russians mis-appropriated the term "Nazi" to the Ukrainians as a propaganda tool to sell Putin's discretionary war of agression to Russian media's consumers.  Putin certainly couldn't call them Communists, because Putin is trying to re-create the Soviet Empire.

The casual politcally rhetorical use of the term "Nazi" normalizes the evil of the Hitler regime, diminishes the sacrifice of those who fought them, and cheapens the horrors they inflicted upon millions of people.

Ukraine was actually split in its support of nazi Germany in WW2. @DefiantMassRINO

The Western,  Ukrainian-speaking part of the country supported nazi Germany, considered them liberators and fought along side them, including in the the murder of Ukrainian Jews.    The Eastern, Russian-speaking part of the country fought with the Russian forces and considered them liberators.

The dynamics haven't changed much.  The Azov Battalion, which is the offspring of Ukraine's nazi battalions during WW2, is still virulently anti-Russia and Russia remains virulently anti-nazi.

 The Donbas region is still very pro-Russia ---- still speaking the language and since declaring independence from Kiev requesting/receiving Russian passports-----which is why the nazi Azov Battalion has enoyed slaughtering the citizens there for the past eight years.

Sometimes it helps to remember that WWII has really not ended for Europe ----







Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 17, 2022, 05:40:57 pm
Their cards are face up on the table now. And their illusion of military capability has been laid bare for all to see. I wonder what China is thinking right now...

Don't go to war against the West.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 05:47:02 pm
Don't go to war against the West.

China's probably wondering when the US will declare bankruptcy.   :smokin:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 17, 2022, 05:53:30 pm
This Russia-Ukraine war is so terrible, it can kill people for a second time!
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS7VaMGXwAEMshY?format=jpg&name=small)
Or maybe it just brings bad journalisming to light.  :pondering:

As expected, some are saying CNN never did this, it's fake.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 06:11:25 pm
Ukraine was actually split in its support of nazi Germany in WW2. @DefiantMassRINO

The Western,  Ukrainian-speaking part of the country supported nazi Germany, considered them liberators and fought along side them, including in the the murder of Ukrainian Jews.    The Eastern, Russian-speaking part of the country fought with the Russian forces and considered them liberators.

The dynamics haven't changed much.  The Azov Battalion, which is the offspring of Ukraine's nazi battalions during WW2, is still virulently anti-Russia and Russia remains virulently anti-nazi.

 The Donbas region is still very pro-Russia ---- still speaking the language and since declaring independence from Kiev requesting/receiving Russian passports-----which is why the nazi Azov Battalion has enoyed slaughtering the citizens there for the past eight years.

Sometimes it helps to remember that WWII has really not ended for Europe ----

These lies were debunked the last time they were posted.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 06:23:51 pm
This is typical of how Mother Russia treats Ukraine:


The 1941 NKVD Prison Massacres in Western Ukraine

During the German invasion of the USSR, the Soviet Secret Police (NKVD) brutally murdered between 10,000 and 40,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine over the course of eight days, which sparked waves of ethnic violence following the German occupation of the region.

June 7, 2021

As the German army began its invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941, Stalin ordered the Soviet Secret Service (NKVD) to “remove” the prison population in the USSR’s occupied territories rather than allow them to fall into German hands. This was largely accomplished through the mass murder of prisoners at various locations in Western Ukraine, Belarus, Estonia, and Lithuania. The majority of the mass executions, later termed “the 1941 NKVD Prison Massacres” by local residents, occurred in Western Ukraine. Due to a lack of reliable sources, exact numbers are impossible to determine; however, historians estimate that the NKVD killed somewhere between 10,000 and 40,000 people in dozens of prisons over the course of eight days. The ethnic breakdown of casualties in Western Ukraine roughly corresponded to population demographics: 70 percent of the victims were Ukrainian, 20 percent Polish, and the remainder consisted of Jews and other nationalities.

Western Ukraine, which encompasses the historical regions of Transcarpathia, Eastern Galicia, Volhynia, northern Bukovina, and the western parts of Podolia, had been a part of Poland prior to the outbreak of World War II. Following the joint invasion of Poland by Germany and the Soviet Union in September 1939, Western Ukraine came under Soviet rule  .  .  .

.  .  .  The Soviet occupation of Western Ukraine was characterized by terror and repression as Stalin immediately embarked on a Sovietization drive that not only included the distribution and display of Soviet insignia and propaganda, but also involved a massive campaign against perceived “enemies of the state.” Due to Stalin’s fear of any national or anti-Soviet elements, hundreds of thousands of suspected political adversaries were arrested, imprisoned, deported to Siberia or Kazakhstan, or executed en masse between February and June 1940. Initial arrests and deportations focused on anti-communists, prewar Polish elites, civil servants, governmental officials, military officers, and Ukrainian nationalists. By April 1940, however, the NKVD began arresting a wide variety of people including family members of those previously convicted, as well as prominent doctors, engineers, lawyers, journalists, artists, university professors, teachers, merchants, and well-to-do farmers. Those that avoided immediate deportation or death sentences remained locked in NKVD prisons when the Germans launched their assault on the Soviet Union.

It is estimated that close to 140,000 political prisoners were being held in prisons throughout Soviet-occupied territories on the eve of Operation Barbarossa. Upon hearing news of the German invasion, the NKVD was ordered to evacuate and liquidate all political prisoners under evacuation order No. 00803.

In Western Ukraine the NKVD started to execute prisoners on the morning of June 23, regardless of whether they had been incarcerated for major offenses or were merely waiting to be questioned. In the central prison in the city of Lutsk, located in the northwestern oblast of Volyn, inmates were crowded and locked into small cells under the pretense of a large-scale evacuation. Shortly thereafter, NKVD officers called inmates by name into the courtyard, lined them up, and began throwing grenades at the group while Soviet tanks fired machine guns. A handful of survivors were then forced to spend the rest of the day digging graves and burying corpses until their overseers fled an advancing German unit. Casualty estimates from the Lutsk prison massacre vary based on sources, ranging from 1,500 to 4,000.  .  .

https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/1941-nkvd-prison-massacres-western-ukraine
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Mod2 on May 17, 2022, 06:26:54 pm
Don't start. Consider this a warning.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 06:28:26 pm
Russia isn't anti-nazi; they are becoming the epitome of nazism - ethnologically nativist socialists/corporatists.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 06:28:28 pm
Ukrainian Insurgent Army

The Ukrainian Insurgent Army (Ukrainian language: Українська Повстанська Армія (УПА) , "Ukrayins’ka Povstans’ka Armiya", or UPA) was a large and well organized Ukrainian nationalist military and later partisan army that engaged in a series of guerrilla conflicts during World War II against Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and both Underground and Communist Poland. The group was the military wing of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists — Bandera faction (the OUN-B), originally formed in Volyn (northwestern Ukraine) in the spring and summer of 1943. Its official date of creation is 14 October 1942,[1] day of Intercession of the Theotokos feast.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army



Looks like Ukraine's resistance army fought BOTH the German nazis and the Soviet communists.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 06:33:17 pm
This is typical of how Mother Russia treats Ukraine:


The 1941 NKVD Prison Massacres in Western Ukraine

During the German invasion of the USSR, the Soviet Secret Police (NKVD) brutally murdered between 10,000 and 40,000 political prisoners in Western Ukraine over the course of eight day.

How would you have preferred the Russians had treated the German nazis and their Western Ukranian collaborators during WW2?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 06:34:52 pm
The fact is, the Ukrainians did, in fact, initially see the Germans as liberators - not because the Ukrainians were nazis, but because the Russians were abominably evil and did vile and disgustingly cruel things to the Ukrainian populace - Holodomor, anyone - and the Germans were kicking the Russians out.

It was only later on that the Ukrainians learned, to their lasting lament, that the Germans were only slightly better than the Russians.

It says something about the inherent evil of the Russians that Ukrainians would have seen the German nazis as liberators.  That evil continues to this day.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 06:42:18 pm
At the beginning of 1941, Ukraine had a population of 41 million.  By 1945, the population was 27 million.  One in five Ukrainians lost their life in that four year span.  The remainder were forced to relocate.

The Soviets destroyed everything in their 1941 retreat.  What they didn't destroy, they stole.  Entire industries were disassembled brick by brick and relocated east of the Urals.  Of the Ukrainian conscripts called up in Summer 1941 (beginning at age 16), only 3% survived.  Russia was every bit an enemy to Ukraine as was Germany, perhaps even more so.  And no country suffered more during all of WWII than did Ukraine.

https://guideme.com.ua/10-facts-about-ukraine-in-the-second-world-war/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 06:44:49 pm
How would you have preferred the Russians had treated the German nazis and their Western Ukranian collaborators during WW2?

By "Western Ukrainian collaborators", you mean the Ukrainians that were fighting for Poland against Germany in 1939 while Stalin was allied with Hitler?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 06:48:32 pm
The fact is, the Ukrainians did, in fact, initially see the Germans as liberators - not because the Ukrainians were nazis, but because the Russians were abominably evil and did vile and disgustingly cruel things to the Ukrainian populace - Holodomor, anyone - and the Germans were kicking the Russians out.

It was only later on that the Ukrainians learned, to their lasting lament, that the Germans were only slightly better than the Russians.

It says something about the inherent evil of the Russians that Ukrainians would have seen the German nazis as liberators.  That evil continues to this day.

Let's not minimize the inherent evil of the willing collaboration by Western Ukranians with the goals of Nazi Germany.  Had Western Ukraine wanted to repel Nazi Germany, they would have had Russia's military help.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 06:51:24 pm
By "Western Ukrainian collaborators", you mean the Ukrainians that were fighting for Poland against Germany in 1939 while Stalin was allied with Hitler?

No.  I refer to the Western Ukranians who joined with Nazi Germany in the killing of Ukranian Jews and fighting against Russia's victory.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 06:57:43 pm
Had Western Ukraine wanted to repel Nazi Germany, they would have had Russia's military help.

lol
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 06:58:55 pm
No.  I refer to the Western Ukranians who joined with Nazi Germany in the killing of Ukranian Jews and fighting against Russia's victory.

There weren't that many Jews left living in Ukraine once the Germans arrived.  Stalin had already killed most of them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 17, 2022, 07:08:05 pm
lol

Excuse me, but I don't understand what you're laughing at.

If you remember Russia was fighting on our side against Nazi Germany ----  then it makes sense that had Western Ukraine wanted to repel, not join, Nazi Germany ---- Russia would have helped them win militarily.  All Western Ukraine did was make Russia's job against the nazi's more difficult.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Mod2 on May 17, 2022, 07:18:18 pm
Let's back on the topic of current events in Ukraine, thanks.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 17, 2022, 07:46:18 pm
There weren't that many Jews left living in Ukraine once the Germans arrived.  Stalin had already killed most of them.


Yup.  As per the communist doctrine, Jews were supposed to assimilate into the broader population - i.e., give up their Jewishness - and those who did not were killed.  There is precious little difference between the German nazis and the Soviet communists, and one of their commonalities was their hatred of Jews - even though there were Jews in the original Bolsheviks - and their blood thirst.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 17, 2022, 07:51:20 pm
I'm going to start deleting post that stray off into "Thread One" land. You know who you are.

Not locking it this time!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 08:15:20 pm
The children's camp that became an execution ground

Sarah Rainsford - BBC, Bucha  |  1 day ago

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/FB81/production/_124758346_86a631c1-2f49-47a0-8883-8670b7e1b38f.jpg)
Since Russian forces were pushed back from Kyiv at the end of March, the bodies of more than 1,000 civilians have been discovered in the Bucha region - many hastily buried in shallow graves. The BBC has learned that around 650 people were shot in what a senior police official has described as executions. Sarah Rainsford has been investigating what happened at a children's summer camp - now being treated as a crime scene.




It is easy to miss the killing spot at first in the gloom. But in a cold, damp basement on the edge of the woods that made Bucha a popular get-away spot before the war, five Ukrainian men were forced to their knees and shot in the head.

To the right of the entrance, there are stones coated in blood that has turned dark red. Lying among that is a blue woollen hat with an exit hole in one side and its rim soaked in blood. In the wall, I counted at least a dozen bullet holes.A couple of steps away are the remains of a Russian military ration pack - an open can of rice porridge with beef and an empty packet of crackers. A name daubed in graffiti on a wall is a reminder that the scene is a children's camp. But when Russian troops moved into Bucha, just outside the capital, in early March, Camp Radiant became an execution ground.

The story of the summer camp killings is chilling but so is this detail: more than 1,000 civilians were killed in the Bucha region during a month under Russian occupation, but most did not die from shrapnel or shelling. More than 650 were shot dead by Russian soldiers, according to a senior police official.

Now Ukraine is searching for their killers.  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61442387
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 08:21:46 pm
Low-flying Ukrainian Su-25 fighters.  This was shot 2 or 3 days ago.  It is encouraging to see Ukrainian aircraft providing ground support on the front lines.

https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a41VP8v_460svvp9.webm
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 17, 2022, 08:33:56 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aVxBxGP_700bwp.webp)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 18, 2022, 12:19:51 am
Some Ukrainians initially greeted the Germans as liberators AFTER Stalin tried to starve them out of existence and Russify territory within the Ukranian Soviet Socialist Republic.

The Ukrainians sufferred and died en masse at the hands of both Hitler and Stalin.

Putin is demagouging Ukrainians as Nazi's becuase they have the audacity to stand up to his plans to conquer, subjugate, and colonize their country.

Europe is haunted by the spectres of its failed empires and the desire of aspiring tyrants to recreate them.  Ukrainians are defending themselves and their country from Putin's desire to recreate the Russian Empire / Soviet Empire.

Russia has the resources to be a peaceful and prosperous nation, but it languishes under the yoke of Putin and his enablers.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 12:51:13 am
" i don't think the pope was involved in federal penitentiary service vehicles transporting the azovstal soldiers to a POW camp in russia"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526528654192304130

"Zelensky: "The evacuation mission from Azovstal continues. It is led by our military and intelligence."

Uhhh... They're being brought to prisons in Donetsk and Rostov in paddy wagons..."  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526683778868977666
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 12:55:28 am
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Nationalist Ukrainian bloggers complaining about Russia having the audacity to take Azov prisoner instead of evacuating them to Ukrainian territory, nationalist Russian bloggers complaining about Russia having the audacity to take Azov prisoner instead of shooting them on sight

5:48 PM · May 17, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 01:00:42 am
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Nationalist Ukrainian bloggers complaining about Russia having the audacity to take Azov prisoner instead of evacuating them to Ukrainian territory, nationalist Russian bloggers complaining about Russia having the audacity to take Azov prisoner instead of shooting them on sight

5:48 PM · May 17, 2022·Twitter Web App

 88devil

Gervasio
@GAruspice

Replying to @RWApodcast

Western bloggers not complaining since they think Azovites are being escorted to Kiev by Elon Musk thanks to the efforts of Zelensky and the Pope.

5:51 PM · May 17, 2022·Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 01:43:23 am
Ignorant Putin is leading Russia to destruction, writes ex-Yeltsin defence aide ALEXANDER TEMERKO

By Alexander Temerko For The Daily Mail
17 May 2022

A vast superpower with a proud Communist history launches a brutal war on its far smaller neighbour, sending thousands of troops over the border.

The objective is the utter humiliation of that country — its demilitarisation, as well as regime change and a complete overhaul of its political structure so that it becomes a client state.

I am not talking here about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. This brutal assault across national boundaries took place more than 40 years ago when China invaded Vietnam.

But the parallels between the two wars are uncanny and, as I shall explain, they hold a vital lesson for president Putin. One that he is steadfastly — and very foolishly — ignoring.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-10826943/Ignorant-Putin-leading-Russia-destruction-writes-ex-Yeltsin-defence-aide-ALEXANDER-TEMERKO.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 18, 2022, 01:55:43 am
"Zelensky: "The evacuation mission from Azovstal continues. It is led by our military and intelligence."

Uhhh... They're being brought to prisons in Donetsk and Rostov in paddy wagons..."  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1526683778868977666

Strange, this doesn't match what you've been posting:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10826761/Russia-accused-double-crossing-Ukraine-deal-free-Azovstal-steelworks-fighters.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 02:12:10 am
Strange, this doesn't match what you've been posting:


Yes, it does.  I also reposted  some of what I posted previously about this.

In a nutshell:  Even though Western journalists aren't permitted to say it:  Azov is an unconditional surrender with the wounded taken to Donbas regional hospitals until well enough to travel to Russia to join the other POWs.

Hope this helps @DB
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 18, 2022, 02:13:30 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqLiI3198Cc
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 03:16:06 am
Strange, this doesn't match what you've been posting:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10826761/Russia-accused-double-crossing-Ukraine-deal-free-Azovstal-steelworks-fighters.html

Not surprising, since RWA is a Russian propaganda site.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 03:30:25 am
Russia claims 265 Ukrainian soldiers 'surrender' at Mariupol steelworks

The soldiers had been the last remaining pocket of resistance in the southern city as the Russians closed in. Over 82 days, they battled severe shortages of food, water, ammunition, medicine and electricity.

Sharon Marris  |  17 May 2022  |  21:52, UK

Russia has claimed more than 250 Ukrainian fighters who were holed up in the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol have surrendered.


"Over the past 24 hours, 265 militants have laid down their arms and surrendered, including 51 seriously wounded," its defence ministry said on Tuesday.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said President Putin had guaranteed the Ukrainian fighters would be treated "in accordance with international standards".

It comes after Ukraine's military said it was working to evacuate all remaining troops from their last stronghold in the besieged port city.

It is not known how many - if any - Ukrainian fighters are still in the steelworks.

Ukraine's deputy defence minister, Hanna Malyar, earlier said those who needed medical treatment were taken to a hospital in the Russian-controlled town of Novoazovsk, about 30 miles east of Mariupol.

Others were being taken to Olenivka, about 55 miles north, through humanitarian corridors, she said, adding that they would be exchanged with Russian military prisoners before returning home.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russia-claims-265-ukrainian-soldiers-surrender-at-mariupol-steelworks-12614910



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 05:07:58 am
I don't believe this for a second.  Putin was quite open with his contempt for anything Ukrainian.  At no point did he envision free independent Donbas states, but instead pushed for the total subjugation of the entire country.  Drug addicts, indeed.

Adolf made the same mistake dealing with the Slavs in general...His contempt for the peoples led him to underestimate their ability to fight back, much less mount an offensive, even if the tactics were to build barricades of their own soldiers' bodies around the advancing Nazis.

Putin's contempt for Ukrainians, a holdover from Stalinesque attitudes expressed during the Holodomor for Ukrainians, may well have blinded him to their tenacity, courage, and determination to keep Ukraine separate from Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 05:09:13 am
Their cards are face up on the table now. And their illusion of military capability has been laid bare for all to see. I wonder what China is thinking right now...
How do you say "Eeny, meeny, miney, moe..." in Chinese?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 05:26:13 am
Please, do NOT conflate Ukrainian nazis with American right wing conservatives ... ever.  It would demonstrate a dangerous misunderstanding of both.  While such a mistake would save the nazis, it would be a death blow to American conservatives.
Wait, whoa. "our" Communists call anyone to the Right of Lenin a "Nazi" too. How convenient that anyone who disagrees with them is automatically a "Nazi" or the extended version, a "Neo-Nazi White Supremacist" (kinda like Larry Elder).

Dealing with the Enemy, Propaganda 101: You label them as something less than human in the eyes of your populace. For Russians, It's Nazis (Great Patriotic War), for the "Woke", It's "White Supremacist/Neo-Nazi", for ordinary "moderate Democrats" it's "Right Winged Extremist"...and the beat goes on. "Nips", "Huns", "Dinks", "Gooks", "Hajis", etc., by no means an exhaustive list), have been used by our own propagandists during wartime, too. 
These stereotypes will be reinforced with political cartoons and images purporting to be in support of the stereotype, all in the interest of getting an entire population riled up.

For Ukrainians, "Communists" (as in Stalinist Communists) will evoke national memories of millions of Ukrainians forcibly starved by the Soviets in the 30s to save face for the government in Moscow when Soviet farming policies failed miserably, and now, "Russian" might be sufficient.

There is or will be a derogatory term for virtually any enemy used by those attempting to gin up popular sentiment against the enemy du jour. (See Orwell, George, reference to "Hate Week" or "Two minutes of Hate".) Acting like every Ukrainian soldier in Mariupol resisting the Russian aggression is a "Nazi" is just basking in their propaganda stream

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 05:30:30 am
Ukrainian Insurgent Army

The Ukrainian Insurgent Army (Ukrainian language: Українська Повстанська Армія (УПА) , "Ukrayins’ka Povstans’ka Armiya", or UPA) was a large and well organized Ukrainian nationalist military and later partisan army that engaged in a series of guerrilla conflicts during World War II against Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, and both Underground and Communist Poland. The group was the military wing of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists — Bandera faction (the OUN-B), originally formed in Volyn (northwestern Ukraine) in the spring and summer of 1943. Its official date of creation is 14 October 1942,[1] day of Intercession of the Theotokos feast.

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army



Looks like Ukraine's resistance army fought BOTH the German nazis and the Soviet communists.  Go figure.

Funny how elections held after occupation are deemed to be reflective of the sentiment of the populace.

Crimea is a noteworthy example, but closer to home, the Maryland Legislature voting on a bill of Secession after the State had been overrun and occupied by Union Troops is another.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 05:37:21 am
The fact is, the Ukrainians did, in fact, initially see the Germans as liberators - not because the Ukrainians were nazis, but because the Russians were abominably evil and did vile and disgustingly cruel things to the Ukrainian populace - Holodomor, anyone - and the Germans were kicking the Russians out.

It was only later on that the Ukrainians learned, to their lasting lament, that the Germans were only slightly better than the Russians.

It says something about the inherent evil of the Russians that Ukrainians would have seen the German nazis as liberators.  That evil continues to this day.
Read this, and you will know why the Ukrainians were willing to try most anything to get out from under Stalin.

Holodomor (https://www.history.com/news/ukrainian-famine-stalin)
An estimated 3.9 Million starved to death in the 'breadbasket', through the forcible confiscation of grain. Accounts of cannibalism--things were that dire there.
(If you don't think that would happen even here under those circumstances, think again.)

No, as it turned out, the Nazis were not their liberators nor saviours, but just another vile oppressor, so they, too, were fought once it was realized they were no better than the Soviet Russians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 05:40:35 am
Let's not minimize the inherent evil of the willing collaboration by Western Ukranians with the goals of Nazi Germany.  Had Western Ukraine wanted to repel Nazi Germany, they would have had Russia's military help.
The Russia that starved millions of Ukrainians in the 1930s? That "Help"?
No wonder Ukraine was desperate enough to dance with the Devil to get out from under the Stalinst yoke.

The enemy of my enemy...only this time they turned out to be the enemy, too.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 05:45:00 am
Excuse me, but I don't understand what you're laughing at.

If you remember Russia was fighting on our side against Nazi Germany ----  then it makes sense that had Western Ukraine wanted to repel, not join, Nazi Germany ---- Russia would have helped them win militarily.  All Western Ukraine did was make Russia's job against the nazi's more difficult.
Russia (the Soviet Union) was fighting on no one's side but their own. It was to our benefit to feed them arms and supplies to keep the Nazis busy on two fronts (enabling the invasion of the continent and eventual advances across France by thinning out Axis armies), but Stalin was in it for Stalin, and gobbled up a significant chunk of Eastern Europe during and after the war as "Socialist Republics".
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 11:03:29 am
Russia (the Soviet Union) was fighting on no one's side but their own. It was to our benefit to feed them arms and supplies to keep the Nazis busy on two fronts (enabling the invasion of the continent and eventual advances across France by thinning out Axis armies), but Stalin was in it for Stalin, and gobbled up a significant chunk of Eastern Europe during and after the war as "Socialist Republics".

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 18, 2022, 12:42:54 pm
Russia (the Soviet Union) was fighting on no one's side but their own. It was to our benefit to feed them arms and supplies to keep the Nazis busy on two fronts (enabling the invasion of the continent and eventual advances across France by thinning out Axis armies), but Stalin was in it for Stalin, and gobbled up a significant chunk of Eastern Europe during and after the war as "Socialist Republics".

^^^^ This!!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 18, 2022, 12:58:39 pm

Russia (the Soviet Union) was fighting on no one's side but their own. It was to our benefit to feed them arms and supplies to keep the Nazis busy on two fronts (enabling the invasion of the continent and eventual advances across France by thinning out Axis armies), but Stalin was in it for Stalin, and gobbled up a significant chunk of Eastern Europe during and after the war as "Socialist Republics".


At the time, the American People wanted no part of fighting Germany in Europe...just like we feel today about 'protecting' Ukrainians from the big, bad Russian bear.  Thus, Lend-Lease.

That was Herman Wouk's POV in Winds of War, and War & Remembrance and was confirmed in two different Stalin biographies I researched back in the Days of Reagan.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 01:09:26 pm
Putin unleashes the Terminators: Russia's much-vaunted war vehicles are finally deployed as Ukraine continues to obliterate invading tanks with the help of British missiles

By WILL STEWART and RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE
18 May 2022

Vladimir Putin has finally deployed his 'Terminator' military vehicles in battle in Ukraine as Kyiv continues to obliterate invading Russian tanks with the help of British missiles.

Video shows the much-vaunted armoured vehicles, which are designed to support infantry units fighting in urban areas, in the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine.

The deployment of the BMPT Terminator comes as Russia's invasion of Ukraine has taken a heavy toll on Putin's main army tanks - the T-90M tank - after Ukrainian troops continue to obliterate them with rockets.

Ukraine said this week its armed forces had destroyed Russian tanks deep behind enemy lines in the Donbas region using British-made Brimstone missiles for the first time.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10829005/Putin-unleashes-Terminators-Russias-vaunted-war-vehicles-finally-deployed.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 01:11:18 pm
Putin unleashes the Terminators: Russia's much-vaunted war vehicles are finally deployed as Ukraine continues to obliterate invading tanks with the help of British missiles

By WILL STEWART and RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE
18 May 2022

Vladimir Putin has finally deployed his 'Terminator' military vehicles in battle in Ukraine as Kyiv continues to obliterate invading Russian tanks with the help of British missiles.

Video shows the much-vaunted armoured vehicles, which are designed to support infantry units fighting in urban areas, in the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine.

The deployment of the BMPT Terminator comes as Russia's invasion of Ukraine has taken a heavy toll on Putin's main army tanks - the T-90M tank - after Ukrainian troops continue to obliterate them with rockets.

Ukraine said this week its armed forces had destroyed Russian tanks deep behind enemy lines in the Donbas region using British-made Brimstone missiles for the first time.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10829005/Putin-unleashes-Terminators-Russias-vaunted-war-vehicles-finally-deployed.html


The so-called Terminator:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT_Terminator

Another cats-paw for the Ukrainians to start chewing up.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 01:13:38 pm
Russian soldier is the first to plead guilty to war crimes in Ukraine: Sergeant, 21, admits shooting a 62-year-old man in the head

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
18 May 2022

A Russian soldier has pleaded guilty to charges of war crimes after he became the first to go on trial in Ukraine over Putin's invasion.

Sergeant Vadim Shishimarin, 21, answered 'yes' when asked by a judge in Kyiv today whether he was guilty of shooting a 62-year-old man in the head in the village of Chupakhivka during the first week of the war.

He now faces life in prison under penalties spelled out in the section of the Ukrainian criminal code that addresses the laws and customs of war.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10829335/Ukraine-war-Russian-soldier-pleads-GUILTY-war-crimes.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 01:15:21 pm
Russia loses ANOTHER colonel... who had been sent into the field to replace the previous one Ukraine killed: Officer dies in river-crossing ambush

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
18 May 2022

Vladimir Putin has suffered another grievous blow after he lost his 42nd colonel in his bloody war in Ukraine.

Colonel Denis Kozlov, 40, was the second commander of the 12th Separate Guards Engineers of Keningsbersko-Gorodokskaya Red Banner Brigade to die in the conflict.

Kozlov had replaced Colonel Sergei Porokhnya, 45, who was killed in Ukraine on 14 March.

But the officer was among Russian troops to perish on May 11 in a failed advance across the Donets River at Bilohorivka, west of the city of Lysychansk, in the Donbas region, after Ukrainian troops successfully ambushed them.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10828505/Russia-loses-colonel-sent-field-replace-previous-one-Ukraine-killed.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 01:15:59 pm
Russia loses ANOTHER colonel... who had been sent into the field to replace the previous one Ukraine killed: Officer dies in river-crossing ambush

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
18 May 2022

Vladimir Putin has suffered another grievous blow after he lost his 42nd colonel in his bloody war in Ukraine.

Colonel Denis Kozlov, 40, was the second commander of the 12th Separate Guards Engineers of Keningsbersko-Gorodokskaya Red Banner Brigade to die in the conflict.

Kozlov had replaced Colonel Sergei Porokhnya, 45, who was killed in Ukraine on 14 March.

But the officer was among Russian troops to perish on May 11 in a failed advance across the Donets River at Bilohorivka, west of the city of Lysychansk, in the Donbas region, after Ukrainian troops successfully ambushed them.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10828505/Russia-loses-colonel-sent-field-replace-previous-one-Ukraine-killed.html

At least there'll be plenty of promotional opportunities for any junior officers still left alive at the end of the Ukraine invasion.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 18, 2022, 01:21:34 pm
At least there'll be plenty of promotional opportunities for any junior officers still left alive at the end of the Ukraine invasion.

And I am guessing they are getting a valuable lesson on how not to wage war.

The one best thing that will hopefully come out of this thing, is that Russia will finally realize that their days as the USSR are long gone, and that expanding borders will not be in their best interests.  Second best?  The Chicoms are watching closely, and their planned imperialistic dreams will be with great cost if they persue them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 18, 2022, 01:28:05 pm
And I am guessing they are getting a valuable lesson on how not to wage war.

The one best thing that will hopefully come out of this thing, is that Russia will finally realize that their days as the USSR are long gone, and that expanding borders will not be in their best interests.  Second best?  The Chicoms are watching closely, and their planned imperialistic dreams will be with great cost if they persue them.

And you can bet that the Taiwanese General Staff is looking very closely at the tactics the Ukraine forces are using to put the beat down on Russia as well.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 18, 2022, 01:34:59 pm
And you can bet that the Taiwanese General Staff is looking very closely at the tactics the Ukraine forces are using to put the beat down on Russia as well.

Great point.  And I am guessing the Chicoms are realizing that their window of opportunity will likely end with Biden's presidency.  Hopefully January 20, 2025.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 18, 2022, 01:44:40 pm
Great point.  And I am guessing the Chicoms are realizing that their window of opportunity will likely end with Biden's presidency.  Hopefully January 20, 2025.

Your lips to Gods ears.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 18, 2022, 01:55:49 pm

The so-called Terminator:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT_Terminator

Another cats-paw for the Ukrainians to start chewing up.

It looks just as susceptible to Javelins as the rest of the tanks.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 02:03:23 pm
The Russia that starved millions of Ukrainians in the 1930s? That "Help"?
No wonder Ukraine was desperate enough to dance with the Devil to get out from under the Stalinst yoke.

When war broke out in Summer 1941, the Soviet response was to conscript as many Ukrainians as possible (beginning at age 16), put them in uniform, and throw them at the advancing German units with zero training.  These Ukrainian formations suffered 97% casualties.

The Soviets also enacted a scorched-earth policy throughout Ukraine in the wake of their retreat.  The Dneproges hydro plant was destroyed without informing the civilian population of the impending flood that would occur.  Critical factories (along with their workers) were relocated east of the Urals, never to return.  Anyone considered to be Ukrainian intelligentsia was murdered by Red Army troops, many of whom were crammed into basements and buried alive.  Low lying areas were flooded with zero regard for civilians living in those areas.  And wounded Red Army soldiers were murdered where they lay instead of evacuating them eastward.

A year earlier, before the German invasion began, Stalin had already conducted his own political purge of Ukraine.  Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian citizens who were deemed a threat to the Soviet regime were arrested and shipped to Siberian gulags where most died at the hands of Stalin's brutality.

And let's not forget the Ukrainians in 1939 who volunteered for military service in the Polish Army and fought against their own German invasion after Stalin had helped provide training for those same   Wehrmacht units.

So yes, this false dichotomy being offered of choosing Germany over Russia is an outright lie.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 02:07:21 pm
It looks just as susceptible to Javelins as the rest of the tanks.
Three different types of 'kill', there.
Mobility kill: disables movement of the vehicle. essentially turns it into a pillbox.
Weapons kill (rare): usually but not always takes out some or all of the crew, but disables the main weapons systems, vehicle remains mobile.
Total Kill: destroys the vehicle and kills the crew.

I am sure the Ukrainians will find a weak spot.
It is just an up-armored souped-up BMP.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 02:13:52 pm
It looks just as susceptible to Javelins as the rest of the tanks.

Supposedly, the newest version, based on the Armata tank, has armor that will protect against the Javelin:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT_Terminator#BMP_T-15_(%22Terminator_3%22)

However, I would point out that the Ukrainians have apparently already succeeded in destroying at least one of the new Armata tanks, so the armor may not be all that's its supposed to be.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 02:14:16 pm
When war broke out in Summer 1941, the Soviet response was to conscript as many Ukrainians as possible (beginning at age 16), put them in uniform, and throw them at the advancing German units with zero training.  These Ukrainian formations suffered 97% casualties.

The Soviets also enacted a scorched-earth policy throughout Ukraine in the wake of their retreat.  The Dneproges hydro plant was destroyed without informing the civilian population of the impending flood that would occur.  Critical factories (along with their workers) were relocated east of the Urals, never to return.  Anyone considered to be Ukrainian intelligentsia was murdered by Red Army troops, many of whom were crammed into basements and buried alive.  Low lying areas were flooded with zero regard for civilians living in those areas.  And wounded Red Army soldiers were murdered where they lay instead of evacuating them eastward.

A year earlier, before the German invasion began, Stalin had already conducted his own political purge of Ukraine.  Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian citizens who were deemed a threat to the Soviet regime were arrested and shipped to Siberian gulags where most died at the hands of Stalin's brutality.

And let's not forget the Ukrainians in 1939 who volunteered for military service in the Polish Army and fought against their own German invasion after Stalin had helped provide training for those same   Wehrmacht units.

So yes, this false dichotomy being offered of choosing Germany over Russia is an outright lie.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 18, 2022, 02:25:19 pm
Supposedly, the newest version, based on the Armata tank, has armor that will protect against the Javelin:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMPT_Terminator#BMP_T-15_(%22Terminator_3%22)

However, I would point out that the Ukrainians have apparently already succeeded in destroying at least one of the new Armata tanks, so the armor may not be all that's its supposed to be.

Most modern tank design still puts the bulk of the armor on the top, front and sides of the turret. The thinnest armor from what I understand is still towards the rear of the tank where the power pack (engine) is located. It could be that's where the Ukrainians are aiming the Javelins.

The first ever recorded kill of an M-1 Abrahams was in 2003 in Iraq. An anti tank fire team waited until the tank had passed by them popped up and fired their missile into the back of the vehicle destroying it. The crew escaped though.

Oh and the missile the Iraqi's used was the 9M133 Kornet  anti-tank guided missile. It was a missile system the Iraqi's weren't supposed to have but mysteriously did and it coincided with the departure of Russian military advisers two weeks prior to the start of the ground war.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 18, 2022, 03:49:23 pm
Putin Takes Hands-On Control of Russia's Floundering Donbas Offensive
 By Charlie McCarthy    |   Wednesday, 18 May 2022 08:39 AM

Russian President Vladimir Putin has taken a hands-on approach with his troops' efforts to capture Ukraine's eastern Donbas region, it was reported Tuesday.

Putin and the head of Russia's armed forces, Gen. Valery Gerasimov, were getting involved in low-level decisions affecting the movements of units containing as few as 700 to 1,000 soldiers, The Telegraph reported.

"We think Putin and Gerasimov are involved in tactical decision-making at a level we would normally expect to be taken by a colonel or a brigadier," a source told The Telegraph.

The source added that Gerasimov remained "up and running" despite claims he had been demoted after a series of military failures in Ukraine.

The Telegraph said that Western officials attributed the Russian military's slow progress in the Donbas to the Kremlin's micromanagement of the war in Ukraine.

more
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/vladimir-putin-russian-troops-donbas-offensive/2022/05/18/id/1070326/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 03:50:08 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_banners/143427448/1652856253/1080x360)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 03:51:38 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTBnjBlWUAQmdVx?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 03:53:33 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTBvmOPXsAA6KYk?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 18, 2022, 03:57:45 pm
Russia (the Soviet Union) was fighting on no one's side but their own. It was to our benefit to feed them arms and supplies to keep the Nazis busy on two fronts (enabling the invasion of the continent and eventual advances across France by thinning out Axis armies), but Stalin was in it for Stalin, and gobbled up a significant chunk of Eastern Europe during and after the war as "Socialist Republics".

Applying this same strategy to today using the tactic of supplying weapons to Ukraine weakens Russia's ability to aggressive seize territory of it's neighbors and destroys Russia's ability to wage conventional war in the future. The best part is the USA does not have to put American soldiers at risk to neutralize Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 03:58:41 pm
'I had to stay below ground for more than 60 days'

Laura Bicker - BBC, Dnipro  |  4 hours ago

Katerina closed her eyes and took a breath when I asked about her husband, a fighter, who is still thought to be in the maze of tunnels beneath the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol.


She'd been calm and composed until now. She too spent more than two months in one of the bunkers under the vast industrial facility with her two sons where the bombardment felt like it would never end.

"The missiles were so heavy it felt like the bunker walls were moving and the rooms themselves became smaller," she told me.

"Sometimes there was a one-hour break and we hoped maybe that's it. Maybe that's the end of it. But no. They carried on."

Behind us, her two boys, aged 6 and 11, were playing with guns made from paper and duct tape.

"They are adapting to being outside again," said Katerina.

"Seeing them running around in the sun again is the best feeling in the world."

She remembers all three of them being "blinded by light" as they finally emerged after two months in their dark refuge under the steel plant.

As the two boys duck and dive behind the trees in the park, they pretend they're fighting Russians. At one point they drop to the ground and shout 'cover your ears'. One gives the shout of 'all clear' and they stand up and get going again.

It's haunting to watch.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61494853
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 18, 2022, 04:07:57 pm
Great point.  And I am guessing the Chicoms are realizing that their window of opportunity will likely end with Biden's presidency.  Hopefully January 20, 2025.

FWIW, I think the Chinese expansionism is going to get worse because they know their system is collapsing and only nationalistic fervor will keep unrest down. China is in a severe economic contraction. They have a big demographic problem not only in disparity between the number of males and females, but also in the aging of the population. On top of these problems they are lacking in sufficient agriculture to feed their populous. They need to expand, or die.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 04:20:54 pm
Mariupol: The 80 days that left a flourishing city in ruins

Paul Adams in London and Hugo Bachega - BBC, Dnipro  |  17 hours ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/10611/production/_124798076_1200x675shutterstock_1444965350.jpg)
The theatre has often been described as the heart of the city

After almost three months of relentless assault, Mariupol has fallen. Ukraine's military says its combat mission in the besieged port is over. More than any other Ukrainian city, Mariupol has come to symbolise the ferocious brutality of Russia's assault and the stubbornness of Ukraine's resistance.

On Wednesday 23 February, Ivan Stanislavsky left his camera bag at the office. He was on his way to see the layout of his new book on Mariupol's Soviet-era murals at a colleague's house, and didn't want to lug the gear around. He could always pick it up the next day.

But on Thursday, as he stood in the street outside his locked and deserted office, he could hear thunderous sounds rolling in from the east. The city was under fire.

As the conflict intensified, and gunfire became audible to the west too, Ivan moved his mattress into the hall. He piled up his large collection of art books - including the Encyclopaedia of Ukrainian Rock Music - against the windows of his flat in the district of Primorsky.

"Let's say it was not a waste of a library," says the 36-year-old photographer, who is also a press officer at Ukrainian premier league football club FC Mariupol.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/4ACD/production/_124794191_fef5cc22-83a8-4eb9-9470-1ec1b3d32852.jpg)
Ivan Stanislavsky loved to photograph his city of Mariupol

Across town in the neighbourhood of Kalmiusky, businessman Yevhen was also taking precautions. The 47-year-old had told his family to pack so they could escape the city. But when he returned from the office, he found no packing had been done. His family refused to leave.  .  .


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/EA19/production/_124792995_1200-reuters-hi075071100.jpg)
The theatre after it was bombed

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61480988
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 04:23:56 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

DPR head Pushilin on Mariupol:

- 60% of houses can't be repaired and will have to be demolished;
- The city will be rebuilt with an emphasis on the resort business;
- Azovstal will be replaced with a park;
- Russia will help with the restoration of the city

7:12 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App


Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

The Illich Steel and Iron Works will be rebuilt

7:15 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 04:24:37 pm
On top of these problems they are lacking in sufficient agriculture to feed their populous.

The pitfalls of collective farming.  The only communist country I know of that was able to produce enough food to feed its own people was Warsaw Pact Hungary, and that's only because they chose to abandon the Leninist collective farming doctrine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 04:26:00 pm

- Russia will help with the restoration of the city


That's rich.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 04:32:09 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Several Moscow City Duma members have proposed renaming the place where the US embassy is located "Defenders of Donbass Square" & changing the embassy's address accordingly.

11:02 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 18, 2022, 04:43:47 pm
Quote
Russia will help with the restoration of the city

OFFS!

(https://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/22/2263198ead78c40ebb8524acd4c921f9.jpeg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 04:46:20 pm
OFFS!

(https://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/22/2263198ead78c40ebb8524acd4c921f9.jpeg)


(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/04/d3/e6/04d3e677c332dac5c4b672808b3c0720.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 05:30:16 pm
That's rich.

Agree.  In a more perfect world Kiev would pay for the restoration of Mariupol with the salaries earmarked for the Azov Battalion.

But alas, here we are.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 06:20:57 pm
Most modern tank design still puts the bulk of the armor on the top, front and sides of the turret. The thinnest armor from what I understand is still towards the rear of the tank where the power pack (engine) is located. It could be that's where the Ukrainians are aiming the Javelins.

The first ever recorded kill of an M-1 Abrahams was in 2003 in Iraq. An anti tank fire team waited until the tank had passed by them popped up and fired their missile into the back of the vehicle destroying it. The crew escaped though.

Oh and the missile the Iraqi's used was the 9M133 Kornet  anti-tank guided missile. It was a missile system the Iraqi's weren't supposed to have but mysteriously did and it coincided with the departure of Russian military advisers two weeks prior to the start of the ground war.
Engines create heat. It has to go somewhere, so it will be vented, and thin armor helps get rid of it (louvers, and the like all compromise that armor). Between the tracks and engine compartments, mobility kills might be easier to pull off. Roadwheels can only provide so much protection. IIRC, the Russian/Soviet designs have their ammo storage where it will be detonated by a precise strike in the side below the turret between the roadwheels, and that's why the turrets blow off so frequently.

Every design has an Achilles' heel, but the MI Abrams is known for crew survivability.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 06:26:00 pm
Applying this same strategy to today using the tactic of supplying weapons to Ukraine weakens Russia's ability to aggressive seize territory of it's neighbors and destroys Russia's ability to wage conventional war in the future. The best part is the USA does not have to put American soldiers at risk to neutralize Russia.
Not even NATO forces need be directly involved.

Provision of weapons to the Ukrainians has cut the number of serviceable Russian tanks and APCs considerably. At some point the losses cannot be absorbed without feeling the pain, and IIRC, one of Russia's sources for the steel used in their armor was the plant the Russians have been busy destroying while the Ukrainians have been fighting in there. They may also be suffering from a chip shortage (Chinese/Taiwan are the main sources). At any rate, their replacement rate is likely not close to the attrition, and at some point if they are going to remain a military power of any credibility they are going to either have to win or withdraw.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 06:29:20 pm
Agree.  In a more perfect world Kiev would pay for the restoration of Mariupol with the salaries earmarked for the Azov Battalion.

But alas, here we are.   :shrug:
Right.

Because Ukrainians shelled the city for nearly three months.

 *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 06:30:38 pm
Right.

Because Ukrainians shelled the city for nearly three months.

 *****rollingeyes*****


 *****rollingeyes***** doesn't even begin to cover it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 06:31:01 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

DPR head Pushilin on Mariupol:

- 60% of houses can't be repaired and will have to be demolished;
- The city will be rebuilt with an emphasis on the resort business;
- Azovstal will be replaced with a park;
- Russia will help with the restoration of the city

7:12 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App


Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

The Illich Steel and Iron Works will be rebuilt

7:15 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App
The steel works was what the Russians were after.

The people can eat dirt and live under bridges, if they can find one intact...

"Liberation" my ass, this is naked conquest.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 06:31:39 pm

 *****rollingeyes***** doesn't even begin to cover it.
No, it doesn't, but there is no emoji for FFS.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 18, 2022, 06:35:31 pm
Engines create heat. It has to go somewhere, so it will be vented, and thin armor helps get rid of it (louvers, and the like all compromise that armor). Between the tracks and engine compartments, mobility kills might be easier to pull off. Roadwheels can only provide so much protection. IIRC, the Russian/Soviet designs have their ammo storage where it will be detonated by a precise strike in the side below the turret between the roadwheels, and that's why the turrets blow off so frequently.

And the ammo is kept in the turret due to the auto loader. Also the auto loader stored ready propellant in a vertical position, with only the tank’s road wheels partially protecting it.

That's deadly for the tank and anyone inside with a successful hit from an AGTM like the Javelin.

Quote
Every design has an Achilles' heel, but the MI Abrams is known for crew survivability.

It's a tough tank with a proven track record. I remember the Iraqi's claiming we had some kind of magic armor on them because their RPG-7's were bouncing off the armor.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 06:42:33 pm
And the ammo is kept in the turret due to the auto loader. Also the auto loader stored ready propellant in a vertical position, with only the tank’s road wheels partially protecting it.

That's deadly for the tank and anyone inside with a successful hit from an AGTM like the Javelin.

It's a tough tank with a proven track record. I remember the Iraqi's claiming we had some kind of magic armor on them because their RPG-7's were bouncing off the armor.
I recall seeing a trainload of damaged M1s while on my way to a well during the Gulf War (in Utah, iirc, in transit eastward), and looking at the damage on them almost all had damage to either the engine area or suspension/tracks. No scorching or deformation to the turrets. I don't know how long it takes to build or rebuild a tank, but the crews take a while to train, and if they survive to fight another day, the rest is just getting them the gear.

Russian/Soviet disregard for the lives of their fighting men is epic though, and was particularly on display on the Eastern Front during WWII. Some things just don't change.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 06:44:45 pm

 *****rollingeyes***** doesn't even begin to cover it.

This is the point where I start looking to the sky for lightning bolts to come down and strike those so boldly uttering lies of this magnitude.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 06:47:41 pm
This is the point where I start looking to the sky for lightning bolts to come down and strike those so boldly uttering lies of this magnitude.
Yabbut. If God sent them two at a time, they'd swear He was a Nazi.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 18, 2022, 06:50:10 pm
No, it doesn't, but there is no emoji for FFS.

We have this:

 what444
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 18, 2022, 06:52:18 pm
I recall seeing a trainload of damaged M1s while on my way to a well during the Gulf War (in Utah, iirc, in transit eastward), and looking at the damage on them almost all had damage to either the engine area or suspension/tracks. No scorching or deformation to the turrets. I don't know how long it takes to build or rebuild a tank, but the crews take a while to train, and if they survive to fight another day, the rest is just getting them the gear.

When the tanks are damaged or receive technology updates they all go to one place...Anniston Army Depot in Alabama. Repairs/modifications are done then swapped with the tanks in the line units which then head for the same upgrades the tanks that replaced them got.

Quote
Russian/Soviet disregard for the lives of their fighting men is epic though, and was particularly on display on the Eastern Front during WWII. Some things just don't change.

The ChiComs displayed the same lack of regard for their forces in Korea as well.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 06:56:21 pm
Most modern tank design still puts the bulk of the armor on the top, front and sides of the turret. The thinnest armor from what I understand is still towards the rear of the tank where the power pack (engine) is located. It could be that's where the Ukrainians are aiming the Javelins.

Javelins by design attack from above, striking the top of the tank.  The top (and bottom) generally exhibit the weakest layer of armor, followed by the rear.

All tank designs have a 'weak' point relative to the rest of the tank.  Some designs have a better armored hull than turret.  Other designs focus on protecting the turret.  The 'weak' spot on an M-1 for a direct fire AT round would be the rear hull where the armor isn't as thick as on the front and sides.

As pointed out previously, the Soviet auto-loader design presents a serious flaw in that it stores many rounds in close proximity under the turret.  Any strike from above penetrating the turret will likely set off all that ammo, causing catastrophic loss of the tank. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 07:17:54 pm
When the tanks are damaged or receive technology updates they all go to one place...Anniston Army Depot in Alabama. Repairs/modifications are done then swapped with the tanks in the line units which then head for the same upgrades the tanks that replaced them got.

The ChiComs displayed the same lack of regard for their forces in Korea as well.
Not just theirs. My Dad served there during the war (which really is only at a cease fire, not ended), and said the ChiComs would round up local villagers and put them in the front of a human wave attack. Dad just said they tried to miss the villagers.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 18, 2022, 07:20:50 pm
Not just theirs. My Dad served there during the war (which really is only at a cease fire, not ended), and said the ChiComs would round up local villagers and put them in the front of a human wave attack. Dad just said they tried to miss the villagers.

I couldn't imagine having to face that dilemma.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 18, 2022, 07:33:15 pm
I couldn't imagine having to face that dilemma.
Dad was a machine gunner. He hasn't talked about the war much, except to describe the action he was in when the Turkish Brigade got them out of a real jam (which was told me as background in describing the only fistfight to ever happen at my Grandmother's dinner table). He was one of only two guys in his outfit who could walk off that ridge. The rest were carried.
I don't push. Some things are best left alone.

He came home, got a job, married mom, they had three kids, took us hunting and fishing, taught us how to handle a firearm from an early age, pushed us to get a real education, helped us with college, and served the community, too--he is still active (in administration) of the local VFD--at 90.

I have few heroes in this life, but he is at the top of my list, along with his bride (my Mom) of 69 years.
I have no illusions about just how lucky I have been to be their son.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: GtHawk on May 18, 2022, 08:08:07 pm
We have this:

 what444
Might I suggest (https://i.imgur.com/ix8Beie.jpg?1)

maybe someone with skills can clean it up and get rid of the white box?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 08:12:16 pm
He came home, got a job, married mom, they had three kids, took us hunting and fishing, taught us how to handle a firearm from an early age, pushed us to get a real education, helped us with college, and served the community, too--he is still active (in administration) of the local VFD--at 90.

I have few heroes in this life, but he is at the top of my list, along with his bride (my Mom) of 69 years.
I have no illusions about just how lucky I have been to be their son.

Everything you wrote here is completely foreign to me.  What a blessing it is to have two parents who love each other and who are involved in the upbringing of their children.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 08:18:08 pm
Right.

Because Ukrainians shelled the city for nearly three months.


Ukranians shelled the city since 2014 ---- eight years.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 18, 2022, 08:19:42 pm
The steel works was what the Russians were after.

The people can eat dirt and live under bridges, if they can find one intact...

"Liberation" my ass, this is naked conquest.

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

The Illich Steel and Iron Works will be rebuilt

7:15 AM · May 18, 2022·Twitter Web App
Modify message
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 18, 2022, 08:23:20 pm
Ukranians shelled the city since 2014 ---- eight years.

Bullshit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 18, 2022, 08:49:32 pm
Bullshit.

That doesn't even begin to describe it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: berdie on May 18, 2022, 09:58:44 pm
The steel works was what the Russians were after.

The people can eat dirt and live under bridges, if they can find one intact...

"Liberation" my ass, this is naked conquest.



And that is the bottom line. It had to do with steel works, all the manufacturing in the east and access to the Black Sea. Plus, Putin is coo-coo, imho.

And let's throw in a Las Vegas replica in Mariupol.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 18, 2022, 10:17:38 pm

Ukraine, he said, will soon have mobilised more than a million soldiers who will be trained by the West and equipped with modern weapons, ready to fight and die to protect their homeland against Russia.

@Kamaji

That's all fine and dandy until they put a toe down inside "Holy Mother Russia". They have been living next door to and associating with Russians all their lives now,so let's hope their common sense overrules their excited egos.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 18, 2022, 10:20:33 pm


 

 General Valery Gerasimov is also said to be making similar tactical decisions, micro-managing the war in minute detail which would normally be overseen by a colonel.

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10823033/Putin-meddling-colonel-Russian-president-making-tactical-decisions-troops.html

@Kamaji

MAYBE they should stop and consider this as a good first clue that they need to stop getting their Colonels killed.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 18, 2022, 10:22:52 pm
Russia is hit with yet another mystery blaze: Flames engulf chemical plant adding to speculation over Ukrainian 'sabotage' after series of deadly fires at military sites

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
17 May 2022

A mysterious fire has broken out at a Russian chemical plant today, amid mounting suspicion Ukraine is targeting infrastructure in Russia.

 
Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10824709/Flames-engulf-chemical-plant-Russia-adding-speculation-Ukrainian-sabotage.html

@Kamaji

Yeah,causen weeze all nos dat da Ruskies wood neber do dis deaysefs,rite? Muz be does craftie furriners!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 18, 2022, 10:24:16 pm
Sweden officially signs NATO application as Putin shows weakening resolve and admits he 'has no problem' with them or Finland and Lavrov says it is 'no big deal'



@Kamaji

Well,it really IS "no big deal" as  long as Russia doesn't try to invade them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 18, 2022, 10:27:37 pm
I don't believe this for a second.  Putin was quite open with his contempt for anything Ukrainian.  At no point did he envision free independent Donbas states, but instead pushed for the total subjugation of the entire country.  Drug addicts, indeed.

@Hoodat

I don't know about you,but *I* would be overjoyed to pretend I believed them if this provided the Russians to "save enough face" to retreat from Ukraine and cease hostilities.

Seems like a small price to pay to me.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 19, 2022, 01:13:14 am
Paying attention yet?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTDwIozWIAIsx8S?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 01:20:05 am
Paying attention yet?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTDwIozWIAIsx8S?format=jpg&name=small)

Jankowicz worked in Ukraine in 2017 when Poroshenko was in power, not in 2019 after Zelenskiy was elected.  The photo caption above is a complete lie.  Paying attention yet?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 01:31:10 am
Is Russian Meddling as Dangerous as We Think?

The spectre of foreign manipulation looms over the coming election. But in focussing on the ­tactics of the aggressors we overlook our weaknesses as victims.


Joshua Yaffa  |  September 7, 2020

In the summer of 2017, Nina Jankowicz, a twenty-eight-year-old American, was working in Kyiv as a communications adviser to Ukraine’s foreign ministry as part of a yearlong Fulbright fellowship. Jankowicz had an interest in digital diplomacy and in countering disinformation that was matched by a passion for musical theatre: in Washington, D.C., where she lived for several years before moving to Ukraine, she played Sally in “You’re a Good Man, Charlie Brown” and Audrey in “Little Shop of Horrors.”  .  .  .

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2020/09/14/is-russian-meddling-as-dangerous-as-we-think



If you're going to post images of Russian propaganda lies, you could at least cite the source you got them from.  The photo was obviously copied from someone's Twitter feed.  But a link to that feed was intentionally withheld.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 19, 2022, 01:38:59 am
Everything you wrote here is completely foreign to me.  What a blessing it is to have two parents who love each other and who are involved in the upbringing of their children.
I am only sorry more people have not had that.

I didn't know how much I was blessed until I got older, I just thought that it was normal.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 19, 2022, 01:56:08 am
Not even NATO forces need be directly involved.

Provision of weapons to the Ukrainians has cut the number of serviceable Russian tanks and APCs considerably. At some point the losses cannot be absorbed without feeling the pain, and IIRC, one of Russia's sources for the steel used in their armor was the plant the Russians have been busy destroying while the Ukrainians have been fighting in there. They may also be suffering from a chip shortage (Chinese/Taiwan are the main sources). At any rate, their replacement rate is likely not close to the attrition, and at some point if they are going to remain a military power of any credibility they are going to either have to win or withdraw.

Even if the Russians win, at this point they've lost. It looks like the Russians have their land bridge to Crimea as of today. If the war stopped now they could declare victory, but in reality they have lost. The Russian economy has been crippled and it is going to get worse. They have lost, or will lose in the near future, their European gas and oil customers. The Russian defense industry will lose a lot of customers over the long haul. NATO is in the process of expanding. International businesses of all types have pulled out of Russia and will not be returning.

What's worse for Russia is the war will not end today. Ukraine is going to mount a counter offensive and currently fields more soldiers with better weaponry, higher morale, and they are fight not only for their country, but for revenge against the orcs that have committed all kinds of atrocities.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 19, 2022, 01:56:24 am
Jankowicz worked in Ukraine in 2017 when Poroshenko was in power, not in 2019 after Zelenskiy was elected.  The photo caption above is a complete lie.  Paying attention yet?

The very fact she was already placed in Ukraine in the Poroshenko regime makes he unfit for any security clearance level herself.

Her denial of the Russian Dossier and the Hunter Biden laptop are Exhibits A & B that she should be furloughed immediately.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 02:07:21 am
The very fact she was already placed in Ukraine in the Poroshenko regime makes he unfit for any security clearance level herself.

Her denial of the Russian Dossier and the Hunter Biden laptop are Exhibits A & B that she should be furloughed immediately.

Agree 100%.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 19, 2022, 02:13:08 am
Troubled conscience?

"George W. Bush: "The decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq. I mean, of the Ukraine"" (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1527096876293578753
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 19, 2022, 02:14:52 am
Jankowicz worked in Ukraine in 2017 when Poroshenko was in power, not in 2019 after Zelenskiy was elected.  The photo caption above is a complete lie.

Like this matters?  When did you become such a champion of the O'Biden corruption machine?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 19, 2022, 02:59:11 am
"Ukrainian fighters emerged from the ruined Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol, Ukraine, after being ordered by their military to abandon the last stronghold of resistance in the now-flattened port city."  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/AP/status/1527008872816205824
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 19, 2022, 12:41:26 pm
'Culture of cover-ups and scape-goating' among Russia's top brass has crippled Putin's invasion of Ukraine as 'distracted' generals focus on saving their own skin rather than winning, MoD says

By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
19 May 2022

A 'culture of cover-ups and scape-goating' within Russia's military has hobbled its invasion of Ukraine, British intelligence believes, as 'distracted' generals focus on saving their own skin rather than winning.

Putin's top brass are 'increasingly seeking to defer key decisions to their superiors' to avoid being forced to carry the can for any mistakes instead of seizing the initiative and taking the fight to Ukraine, a briefing by the Ministry of Defence said today.

Lieutenant-General Sergei Kisel, commander of the 1st Guards Tank Army, and Admiral Igor Osipov, commander of the Black Sea Fleet, have already been sacked for respectively failing to take Ukraine's second-city of Kharkiv and for the sinking of the flagship Moskva, the UK has said.

It confirms intelligence released by Ukraine last week which suggested they were among a gaggle of generals purged over the blundering invasion - including General Valery Gerasimov, the chief of staff of the Russian armed forces, who was said to have been suspended.

Britain believes that General Gerasimov 'likely remains in post' but says it is 'unclear whether he retains the confidence of President Putin'. It comes after Gerasimov failed to appear during a Victory Day parade in Moscow 10 days ago, with Admiral Osipov also missing from the centrepiece event.

The firings amount to a tactic admission by Putin that his invasion is not going to plan, despite the repeated assurances he has given to the Russian people that the 'special military operation' - as he calls it - is proceeding on schedule and that all objectives will be completed.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10832441/Ukraine-war-Culture-cover-hobbled-Russias-invasion-UK-says.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 19, 2022, 12:43:54 pm
Russia admits losing TWO officers in day – including a colonel who was sent into the field to replace one killed earlier by Ukraine

By Will Stewart for MailOnline
18 May 2022

Russia has admitted losing two officers in a single day, including one who had been sent to replace a colonel who died fighting earlier in the war.

Lieutenant-Colonel Denis Sukhanov, 41, was reported to have died 'defending civilians' though the exact location and date of his death were not revealed.

Meanwhile Colonel Denis Kozlov, 40, was revealed to have died during a botched mission to cross the Donets River last week that ended with an entire Russian battalion being wiped out.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10828505/Russia-loses-colonel-sent-field-replace-previous-one-Ukraine-killed.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 19, 2022, 12:59:50 pm
Russia admits losing TWO officers in day – including a colonel who was sent into the field to replace one killed earlier by Ukraine

By Will Stewart for MailOnline
18 May 2022

Russia has admitted losing two officers in a single day, including one who had been sent to replace a colonel who died fighting earlier in the war.

Lieutenant-Colonel Denis Sukhanov, 41, was reported to have died 'defending civilians' though the exact location and date of his death were not revealed.

Meanwhile Colonel Denis Kozlov, 40, was revealed to have died during a botched mission to cross the Donets River last week that ended with an entire Russian battalion being wiped out.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10828505/Russia-loses-colonel-sent-field-replace-previous-one-Ukraine-killed.html

Russian Colonels are the new "No.3 in alQaeda"  .....   Most dangerous job in the world.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 01:01:28 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTHtU4LWQAA6g9I?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 01:17:10 pm
Detectives near Kharkiv investigate alleged Russian war crimes against civilians

In the hills around Kharkiv, detectives from Ukraine and Lithuania are looking for evidence that Russian forces committed war crimes against the local population, after reports of tanks firing on villages and food trucks being ambushed.

Dominic Waghorn  |  19 May 2022 11:03, UK

Early in the invasion, Russia's 59th tank regiment dug in east of Kharkiv.


Near the treeline on raised ground, they looked down on a valley of villages.

From there, Ukrainians say the tanks' guns attacked civilian vehicles and homes below.

A reckoning followed as Ukrainian forces comprehensively destroyed the Russian tanks and armoured vehicles.

Sky News joined Ukrainian and Lithuanian investigators combing over what's left of their positions for evidence of war crimes.  .  .

.  .  .  Ukrainian military prosecutor Artem Zaskalkin told Sky News the Russians had shelled civilian homes in the villages below.

Ukrainian military prosecutor Artem Zaskalkin told Sky News the Russians had shelled civilian homes in the villages below.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-detectives-near-kharkiv-investigate-alleged-russian-war-crimes-against-civilians-12616184
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 19, 2022, 01:43:51 pm
Like this matters?  When did you become such a champion of the O'Biden corruption machine?

Don't go there.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 01:46:25 pm
Like this matters?

Yes.  'Truth' always matters.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 19, 2022, 01:55:27 pm
I am not saying this wasn't/isn't serious,but towns have been getting shelled ever since shells and the devices that fire them were invented, Before that catapults were used to throw heavy rocks or fireballs.

Sometimes even dead,rotten bodies were catapulted over walls to try to spread disease.

One of the reasons that war should be avoided if possible.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 02:42:56 pm
Russia Firing Senior Commanders Who Performed Poorly in Ukraine: U.K.

JACK DUTTON  |  5/19/22 AT 8:09 AM EDT


Russia has fired senior military commanders who have been considered to have performed poorly during the early stages of the country's invasion of Ukraine, the British Ministry of Defense has said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine on February 24, initially with the intention of capturing the capital Kyiv. However, the Russian army failed in its aims as Ukrainians put up a strong defense, leading Putin's forces to focus their attention on the eastern Donbas region, as well as Ukraine's southern port towns on the Black Sea.

Although Russia has captured the southern port city of Mariupol, its army's progress elsewhere in the Donbas has been slow. The war has killed thousands of people, including many civilians and displaced millions more.

In its daily Ukraine war update on Thursday, Britain's Ministry of Defense tweeted Thursday: "In recent weeks, Russia has fired senior commanders who are considered to have performed poorly during the opening stages of its invasion of Ukraine."

The ministry noted that Lieutenant General Sergey Kisel, who commanded the elite 1st Guards Tank Army, was suspended for his failure to capture Kharkiv. Vice Admiral Igor Osipov, who commanded Russia's Black Sea Fleet, has also likely been suspended following the sinking of the cruiser Moskva in April, the ministry added.  .  .

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-firing-senior-commanders-who-performed-poorly-ukraineu-k-1708140
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 19, 2022, 02:58:51 pm
Is it Annual Performance Review time at the Kremlin?

(https://i.imgflip.com/6gr524.jpg)

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 19, 2022, 02:59:54 pm
Russia Firing Senior Commanders Who Performed Poorly in Ukraine: U.K.

JACK DUTTON  |  5/19/22 AT 8:09 AM EDT


Russia has fired senior military commanders who have been considered to have performed poorly during the early stages of the country's invasion of Ukraine, the British Ministry of Defense has said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine on February 24, initially with the intention of capturing the capital Kyiv. However, the Russian army failed in its aims as Ukrainians put up a strong defense, leading Putin's forces to focus their attention on the eastern Donbas region, as well as Ukraine's southern port towns on the Black Sea.

Although Russia has captured the southern port city of Mariupol, its army's progress elsewhere in the Donbas has been slow. The war has killed thousands of people, including many civilians and displaced millions more.

In its daily Ukraine war update on Thursday, Britain's Ministry of Defense tweeted Thursday: "In recent weeks, Russia has fired senior commanders who are considered to have performed poorly during the opening stages of its invasion of Ukraine."

The ministry noted that Lieutenant General Sergey Kisel, who commanded the elite 1st Guards Tank Army, was suspended for his failure to capture Kharkiv. Vice Admiral Igor Osipov, who commanded Russia's Black Sea Fleet, has also likely been suspended following the sinking of the cruiser Moskva in April, the ministry added.  .  .

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-firing-senior-commanders-who-performed-poorly-ukraineu-k-1708140

A choice is presented:  Be fired or face the angry Ukrainians and be slaughtered.  I'd pick the Dacha choice.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 19, 2022, 05:03:09 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Azov second-in-command "Kalina" left Azovstal & surrendered last night, says war reporter Dmitry Steshin.

12:16 AM · May 19, 2022·Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 19, 2022, 05:06:05 pm
"Representatives of the Red Cross have visited the jail in Yelenovka (DPR) where Ukrainian POWs from Azovstal are being held."  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1527163884762701824
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 19, 2022, 05:08:39 pm
"Ukrainians at Azovstal surrendering their weapons"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1527179550756577280
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 19, 2022, 05:11:02 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

The DPR is working on the creation of a tribunal for the trial of Ukrainian war criminals. Cooperation between Russian, DPR and LPR agencies has already been established, the statute is currently being drafted.

10:19 AM · May 19, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 19, 2022, 05:42:55 pm
A choice is presented:  Be fired or face the angry Ukrainians and be slaughtered.  I'd pick the Dacha choice.

Especially if, as most Russian officers have done, one has pocketed a nice chunk of change from forging all those maintenance records on one's unit's equipment.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 19, 2022, 05:44:49 pm
'Warm wishes to the Russian occupiers!' Ukrainian troops paint flowers and messages on missiles…before firing a volley of them at Putin's forces

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
19 May 2022

Ukrainian troops have been filmed painting flowers and messages on their missiles, before firing a volley of the munitions at Vladimir Putin's invading forces.

Kyiv's troops decorated the missiles with 'warm' messages for Ukraine's World Embroidery Day, known as Vyshyvanka, which takes place on May 21.

The holiday - that is also celebrated in Belarus - promotes the tradition of creating and wearing embroidered Ukrainian clothes known as Vyshyvanka. A Vyshyvanka is a casual name for an embroidered shirt that is part of the country's national costume.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10833575/Ukrainian-troops-paint-flowers-messages-missiles-destined-Putins-forces.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 19, 2022, 05:53:26 pm
Russia Firing Senior Commanders Who Performed Poorly in Ukraine: U.K.

JACK DUTTON  |  5/19/22 AT 8:09 AM EDT


Russia has fired senior military commanders who have been considered to have performed poorly during the early stages of the country's invasion of Ukraine, the British Ministry of Defense has said.

Russian President Vladimir Putin invaded Ukraine on February 24, initially with the intention of capturing the capital Kyiv. However, the Russian army failed in its aims as Ukrainians put up a strong defense, leading Putin's forces to focus their attention on the eastern Donbas region, as well as Ukraine's southern port towns on the Black Sea.

Although Russia has captured the southern port city of Mariupol, its army's progress elsewhere in the Donbas has been slow. The war has killed thousands of people, including many civilians and displaced millions more.

In its daily Ukraine war update on Thursday, Britain's Ministry of Defense tweeted Thursday: "In recent weeks, Russia has fired senior commanders who are considered to have performed poorly during the opening stages of its invasion of Ukraine."

The ministry noted that Lieutenant General Sergey Kisel, who commanded the elite 1st Guards Tank Army, was suspended for his failure to capture Kharkiv. Vice Admiral Igor Osipov, who commanded Russia's Black Sea Fleet, has also likely been suspended following the sinking of the cruiser Moskva in April, the ministry added.  .  .

https://www.newsweek.com/russia-firing-senior-commanders-who-performed-poorly-ukraineu-k-1708140

I hate to see this, there is always a chance that the replacement might actually know what they are doing and turn things around for the orcs.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 06:00:14 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

The DPR is working on the creation of a tribunal for the trial of Ukrainian war criminals. Cooperation between Russian, DPR and LPR agencies has already been established, the statute is currently being drafted.

Shouldn't they come up with some actual Ukrainian war crimes first before creating tribunals?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 19, 2022, 06:01:49 pm
Shouldn't they come up with some actual Ukrainian war crimes first before creating tribunals?

They should also come up with a recognized sovereign that has the recognized authority to try war crimes.  A Russian-engendered kangaroo court doesn't count.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 06:05:20 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Azov second-in-command "Kalina" left Azovstal & surrendered last night, says war reporter Dmitry Steshin.

This would be the same "Kalina" that the DPR reported they killed back in March.

https://thesanghakommune.org/2022/04/01/dpr-deputy-azov-commander-kalina-has-been-killed-neo-nazi-news-round-up-issue-40-31-3-2022/

See how stupid you look when you fail to keep track of your propaganda lies?

btw, it is now being reported that "Kalina" has been moved to Rostov.  If so, this means the Russians are already in violation of the surrender agreement.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 06:18:51 pm
For the record, Kalina's real name is Svyatoslav Palamar.  He holds the rank of captain in the Azov Regiment - Ukrainian National Guard.

No word yet on the status of Major Serhiy Volyna, ranking officer of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade - Ukraine Military.  He is still in side Azovstal.  If Russia is already in violation of the surrender agreement, then there is no reason for anyone else to surrender.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 19, 2022, 06:29:26 pm
Sea of Azov under threat of complete extinction due to Russian bombardment

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-emergencies/3486397-sea-of-azov-under-threat-of-complete-extinction-due-to-russian-bombardment.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-emergencies/3486397-sea-of-azov-under-threat-of-complete-extinction-due-to-russian-bombardment.html)

Quote
There is a threat of complete extinction of the Sea of ​​Azov due to possible damage to the technical facility, which restrains the concentrated hydrogen sulfide solution, amid the Russian bombardment of the Azovstal steelworks.

"There is a threat of complete extinction of the Sea of ​​Azov. The bombardment of Azovstal could damage a technical facility that restrains tens of thousands of tonnes of concentrated hydrogen sulfide solution. The leak will completely kill the flora and fauna of the Sea of ​​Azov," the Mariupol City Council posted on Telegram.

It is noted that dangerous substances may further get into the Black Sea and the Mediterranean Sea. According to Mariupol Mayor Vadym Boychenko, international experts and the UN must be granted immediate access to the facility to examine the situation and prevent a global environmental catastrophe.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 19, 2022, 07:16:32 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

The DPR is working on the creation of a tribunal for the trial of Ukrainian war criminals. Cooperation between Russian, DPR and LPR agencies has already been established, the statute is currently being drafted.

10:19 AM · May 19, 2022·Twitter Web App

Please note....
Quote
In a massive development amid the devastating war in Eastern Europe, Ukraine's breakaway regions Donetsk People's Republic (DPR) and the Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) have appointed their ambassadors to Moscow. DPR's head Denis Pushilin and LPR's head Leonid Pasechnik appointed ambassador extraordinary and plenipotentiary to Russia. The corresponding decrees were published on Friday on the websites of the leaders of the Republics. As per a TASS report, the decrees entered into force from the date of signing.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/russia-ukraine-war-separatist-dpr-and-lpr-regions-appoint-ambassadors-to-moscow-articleshow.html

Is it me, or does it bother anybody else that these Ukrainian "heroes" named their little tinpots "Peoples Republics?"  That screams "Third-World hard core Communist."  We're supposed to root for this??!?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 19, 2022, 07:20:49 pm
Please note....
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/russia-ukraine-war-separatist-dpr-and-lpr-regions-appoint-ambassadors-to-moscow-articleshow.html

Is it me, or does it bother anybody else that these Ukrainian "heroes" named their little tinpots "Peoples Republics?"  That screams "Third-World hard core Communist."  We're supposed to root for this??!?

I've never seen a "People's Republic" that was ever truly by the people or for the people.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 19, 2022, 08:00:19 pm
Please note....

Is it me, or does it bother anybody else that these Ukrainian "heroes" named their little tinpots "Peoples Republics?"  That screams "Third-World hard core Communist."  We're supposed to root for this??!?

Maybe the SS Totenkopf insignia on DPR uniforms is supposed to balance that out.

(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fpbs.twimg.com%2Fmedia%2FFPtVE3_X0AclSUU%3Fformat%3Djpg%26name%3Dmedium&f=1&nofb=1)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 19, 2022, 08:21:44 pm
I've never seen a "People's Republic" that was ever truly by the people or for the people.

Or a republic.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 20, 2022, 12:24:33 am
Shouldn't they come up with some actual Ukrainian war crimes first before creating tribunals?

It sure looks like a way for the Russians to execute the Mariupol soldiers.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 20, 2022, 12:27:26 am
Please note....
https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/russia-ukraine-crisis/russia-ukraine-war-separatist-dpr-and-lpr-regions-appoint-ambassadors-to-moscow-articleshow.html

Is it me, or does it bother anybody else that these Ukrainian "heroes" named their little tinpots "Peoples Republics?"  That screams "Third-World hard core Communist." We're supposed to root for this??!?

Only if you're not paying attention.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 12:32:35 am
"The battle for Severodonetsk began.  Ukrainian Forces use the heavily populated centre to defend against the Russian offensive.  No self-respecting analyst predicts Ukraine will hold this city, meaning Ukraine will sacrifice it and its civilians to DELAY Russian & LNR advances." (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1527400094277980166
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 20, 2022, 12:40:08 am
"The battle for Severodonetsk began.  Ukrainian Forces use the heavily populated centre to defend against the Russian offensive.  No self-respecting analyst predicts Ukraine will hold this city, meaning Ukraine will sacrifice it and its civilians to DELAY Russian & LNR advances." (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/narrative_hole/status/1527400094277980166

You are so full of crap. Your "self-respecting analyst" predicted the fall of virtually every other Ukrainian city - and were wrong. All the sacrificing of lives is being done by the Russians killing people and destroying cities where none of those people attacked Russia.

Like I've said before. History is not going to be kind to you.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 12:44:51 am
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Russian Foreign Ministry: "Russia does not interfere with Ukraine's grain exports, the logistics problems were caused by Kiev: its troops mined their own ports"

2:49 PM · May 19, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 12:48:47 am
Like I've said before. History is not going to be kind to you.

And you've still not explained what you mean by this hyperbole @DB  ------  Why not give it a shot?

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 12:49:22 am
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Russian Foreign Ministry: "Russia does not interfere with Ukraine's grain exports, the logistics problems were caused by Kiev: its troops mined their own ports"

2:49 PM · May 19, 2022·Twitter Web App
Yeah, right. And the fleet putting around the Black Sea isn't interference?

I think the Ukraine should use grain ships as bait to bring the Russians in missile range. Fill 'em with sand so they ride lower then an empty vessel would.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 02:05:00 am
"EXCLUSIVE! AZOV Battalion Mariupol Headquarters Walkthrough"  (Video)

https://youtu.be/dSKqqw511do
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 20, 2022, 02:09:03 am
Palamar: Azov Regiment command stays in Azovstal’s territory

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3487400-palamar-azov-regiment-command-stays-in-azovstals-territory.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3487400-palamar-azov-regiment-command-stays-in-azovstals-territory.html)

Quote
Deputy Commander of the Azov Regiment, Captain Sviatoslav Palamar (call sign Kalyna) recorded a video in which he denies the information that he left the territory of the Azovstal steelworks in Mariupol and surrendered to Russian invaders.

Ukrainian war correspondent Andriy Tsaplienko published the relevant video on Telegram, Ukrinform reports.

"The command and I are in the territory of Azovstal steelworks. An operation is underway, the details of which I will not disclose. I want to thank the whole world and Ukraine for support. See you," he said.

The other day, Russian war correspondent Dmitry Steshin stated that Sviatoslav Palamar had left Azovstal and surrendered.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 02:10:49 am
"The battle for Severodonetsk began.  Ukrainian Forces use the heavily populated centre to defend against the Russian offensive.

They make it sound like Ukraine is forcing Russia to attack/bomb/shell/destroy Severodonetsk.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 02:16:24 am
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Russian Foreign Ministry: "Russia does not interfere with Ukraine's grain exports

RWA lies.  But then we knew that already.



Russian ships carrying stolen Ukrainian grain turned away from Mediterranean ports -- but not all of them

Tim Lister and Sanyo Fylyppov, CNN  |  Updated 7:47 AM ET, Thu May 12, 2022


A Russian merchant ship loaded with grain stolen in Ukraine has been turned away from at least one Mediterranean port and is now in the Syrian port of Latakia, according to shipping sources and Ukrainian officials.

CNN has identified the vessel as the bulk carrier Matros Pozynich.
On April 27, the ship weighed anchor off the coast of Crimea, and turned off its transponder. The next day it was seen at the port of Sevastopol, the main port in Crimea, according to photographs and satellite images.

The Matros Pozynich is one of three ships involved in the trade of stolen grain, according to open source research and Ukrainian officials.  .  .

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/12/europe/russia-ship-stolen-ukraine-grain-intl-cmd/index.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 02:19:50 am
Russia 'steals 400,000 tons of grain' from Ukraine to spark famine warning

Kate Buck, UK  |  May 4, 2022


Ukraine has accused Moscow of stealing 400,000 tonnes of grain in regions Russian troops are occupying.

Vladimir Putin ordered his troops to invade Ukraine in February but, after failing to take over the capital of Kyiv, ordered a new offensive in the south east of the county in a bid to fully take over the Donbas region.

Kate Buck
Kate Buck·Breaking News Editor, Yahoo News UK
May 4, 2022·5 min read
Andrii, a serviceman of the Ukrainian Armed Forces volunteer unit Karpatska Sich, walks inside a grain storage of a farmer enterprise, damaged during a Russian military strike, as Russia&#39;s attack on Ukraine continues, in Kharkiv region, Ukraine May 2, 2022.  REUTERS/Serhii Nuzhnenko
Ukrainian soldier Andrii walks inside a grain storage of a farmer enterprise, damaged during a Russian military strike in Kharkiv. (Getty)
Ukraine has accused Moscow of stealing 400,000 tonnes of grain in regions Russian troops are occupying.

Vladimir Putin ordered his troops to invade Ukraine in February but, after failing to take over the capital of Kyiv, ordered a new offensive in the south east of the county in a bid to fully take over the Donbas region.

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Ukraine is a major exporter of grain, and sold 44.7 million tonnes abroad in 2020/21- making it the world's fourth-largest supplier.

But since Russia invaded, the volume of exports has fallen sharply, and the United Nations has warned 1.7 billion people worldwide may face poverty and hunger due to food disruptions as a result of the war.

According to the Kyiv Independent, Ukraine has now accused Russia of moving hundreds of thousands of tonnes of grain, threatening the supply chain of future harvests.

The grain has reportedly been taken from the areas of Zaporizhia, Kherson, Donetsk and Luhansk in the south-east.  .  .

https://news.yahoo.com/russia-steals-400000-tons-grain-ukraine-famine-warning-144407455.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 02:28:31 am
"EXCLUSIVE! AZOV Battalion Mariupol Headquarters Walkthrough"  (Video)

Why are we just now seeing this video considering how the Russians have occupied this for several weeks now?  And why are so many of the signs and stickers written in English instead of Ukrainian?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 02:32:13 am
I recall seeing something similar in a previous war:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/j-iV87bIkdI/hqdefault.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 02:43:20 am
Why are we just now seeing this video considering how the Russians have occupied this for several weeks now?  And why are so many of the signs and stickers written in English instead of Ukrainian?

Ask the film's producer.   :shrug:

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 02:47:06 am
"EXCLUSIVE! AZOV Battalion Mariupol Headquarters Walkthrough"  (Video)

https://youtu.be/dSKqqw511do
Interesting that the Azov Battalion headquarters has no bullet or shell holes, and is a fairly intact building compared to Mariupol.

Also that they hate Antifa and "modern football".

Lots there in English and not Ukrainian or Russian, too. (ZOV means "call" in Russian, but those are English letters, not Cyrillic)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 02:47:29 am
RWA lies.  But then we knew that already.


Thank heaven CNN and Yahoo! never do.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 02:49:21 am
Interesting that the Azov Battalion headquarters has no bullet or shell holes, and is a fairly intact building compared to Mariupol.

Actually, according to the Azov spokesman, they're not in Mariupol.....but near it and hve been there for 8 years.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 02:50:04 am
They make it sound like Ukraine is forcing Russia to attack/bomb/shell/destroy Severodonetsk.
Yeah. Those Russians were just out helping with the spring tilling, and then those nasty Ukrainians went and shoved cities, schools, hospitals, and all other manner of buildings and things under the bombs and shells How bloody inconsiderate of those Ukrainians making those peaceful Russkies look bad while they were just trying to help the farmers.

 ////00000////  (Ya think!?)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 02:52:24 am
Actually, according to the Azov spokesman, they're not in Mariupol.....but near it and have been there for 8 years.
So this building was a well known target for those fighting the "Nazis" in Ukraine, and not even symbolically worth a bomb run? :pondering:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 02:53:46 am
RWA lies.  But then we knew that already.



Russian ships carrying stolen Ukrainian grain turned away from Mediterranean ports -- but not all of them

Tim Lister and Sanyo Fylyppov, CNN  |  Updated 7:47 AM ET, Thu May 12, 2022


A Russian merchant ship loaded with grain stolen in Ukraine has been turned away from at least one Mediterranean port and is now in the Syrian port of Latakia, according to shipping sources and Ukrainian officials.

CNN has identified the vessel as the bulk carrier Matros Pozynich.
On April 27, the ship weighed anchor off the coast of Crimea, and turned off its transponder. The next day it was seen at the port of Sevastopol, the main port in Crimea, according to photographs and satellite images.

The Matros Pozynich is one of three ships involved in the trade of stolen grain, according to open source research and Ukrainian officials.  .  .

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/12/europe/russia-ship-stolen-ukraine-grain-intl-cmd/index.html
Oh, they aren't interfering with exports of Ukrainian Grain, in fact they're just being helpful.

Shades of the Holodomor.

Time to break out the missiles again.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 03:04:55 am
 88devil

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

This man has done more for showbiz than Spielberg

Quote
Eleanor Beardsley
@ElBeardsley
 · May 17

Look who addressed the Cannes Film Festival as it opened tonight! #zelensky #ukraine

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS-q-xoXoAAFGAn?format=jpg&name=360x360) 

7:02 PM · May 19, 2022   Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 03:10:43 am
So this building was a well known target for those fighting the "Nazis" in Ukraine, and not even symbolically worth a bomb run? :pondering:


I'm not sure this    pointing-up    military strategy holds up.   IIRC,  the majority of the battalion was hiding in the tunnels of a steel mill preparing to surrender.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 03:15:34 am

I'm not sure this    pointing-up    military strategy holds up.   IIRC,  the majority of the battalion was hiding in the tunnels of a steel mill preparing to surrender.
Rubbing your enemies's noses in defeat, especially something as symbolic as destroying their headquarters building, especially when you are out "hunting Nazis" would be a hard piece of propaganda to ignore.

Unless you are out to make videos detailing how nasty those Nazis are (just look!--they even hate modern football).

I'd wager every bit of the set there could be bought somewhere on line.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 03:21:01 am
I'd wager every bit of the set there could be bought somewhere on line.

Okay.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 03:34:04 am
Rubbing your enemies's noses in defeat, especially something as symbolic as destroying their headquarters building, especially when you are out "hunting Nazis" would be a hard piece of propaganda to ignore.

Unless you are out to make videos detailing how nasty those Nazis are (just look!--they even hate modern football).

The truth about the Azov Battalion has been know for years and years.   I'm still trying to understand why so many have such difficulty accepting this.

Their history is what prompted this Congressional (in)action.....

Quote
Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis
The Hill,  Mar 27, 2018

A little-noticed provision in the 2,232-page government spending bill passed last week bans U.S. arms from going to a controversial ultranationalist militia in Ukraine that has openly accepted neo-Nazis into its ranks.

House-passed spending bills for the past three years have included a ban on U.S. aid to Ukraine from going to the Azov Battalion, but the provision was stripped out before final passage each year.

This year, though, the $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill signed into law last week stipulates that “none of the funds made available by this act may be used to provide arms, training or other assistance to the Azov Battalion.”

“White supremacy and neo-Nazism are unacceptable and have no place in our world,” Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.), an outspoken critic of providing lethal aid to Ukraine, said in a statement to The Hill on Tuesday. “I am very pleased that the recently passed omnibus prevents the U.S. from providing arms and training assistance to the neo-Nazi Azov Battalion fighting in Ukraine.”

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/380483-congress-bans-arms-to-controversial-ukrainian-militia-linked-to-neo-nazis/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 03:36:04 am
Russian propaganda continues to malign the Azov Regiment eight years after Andriy Biletsky stepped down.  The Azov Battalion ceased to exist in Jan 2015 when it was incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard as the Azov Regiment.  But we still get bombarded with the same old "Azov Battalion" propaganda that the Russians have been spewing ever since their puppet Viktor Yanukovych was impeached in 2014.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 03:44:43 am
Quote
Congress bans arms to Ukraine militia linked to neo-Nazis
The Hill,  Mar 27, 2018

A little-noticed provision in the 2,232-page government spending bill passed last week bans U.S. arms from going to a controversial ultranationalist militia in Ukraine that has openly accepted neo-Nazis into its ranks.

House-passed spending bills for the past three years have included a ban on U.S. aid to Ukraine from going to the Azov Battalion, but the provision was stripped out before final passage each year.

This year, though, the $1.3 trillion omnibus spending bill signed into law last week stipulates that “none of the funds made available by this act may be used to provide arms, training or other assistance to the Azov Battalion.”

(https://i.imgflip.com/6gu2pz.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 03:57:03 am
The truth about the Azov Battalion has been know for years and years.   I'm still trying to understand why so many have such difficulty accepting this.

There's only one poster here having difficulty accepting the truth.  Here it is again:


Factbox-Last Defenders of Mariupol: What Is Ukraine's Azov Regiment?

May 17, 2022, at 5:36 a.m.


(Reuters) - Russian President Vladimir Putin looks poised to take full control of Ukraine's southeastern port city of Mariupol after the apparent surrender of the last Ukrainian forces holed up at a vast steel works.

At the core of that last stand has been the Azov Regiment whose fighters are lionised as heroes in Ukraine, but reviled by Putin's Kremlin as a band of Russia-hating neo-Nazis.

AZOV'S ORIGINS

The Azov Regiment began as one of many militias of volunteer fighters who banded together to fight pro-Russian separatists backed by Moscow who carved out two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine in 2014 after Russia annexed the Crimean peninsula.

Mariupol is the spiritual home of the Azov Regiment which it helped Ukraine recapture from pro-Russian fighters in 2014 and where it had a permanent base until the 2022 invasion.

The militia emerged from Andriy Biletskiy's Patriot of Ukraine organisation that critics say championed white nationalist, anti-immigrant extreme-right ideas.

Its logo resembles a black "wolfsangel", a symbol that was used by some Nazi units and is seen by critics as neo-Nazi. The Azov say the logo represents the letters N and I of "national idea" and deny it is neo-Nazi.

Patriot of Ukraine later renamed itself the National Corps and, despite allying with other nationalist parties, failed to win election in 2019. The U.S. State Department labelled the National Corps a "nationalist hate group" in 2018.

Reporting Radicalism, a Freedom House-backed group investigating political extremism in Ukraine, says Biletskiy has written several openly racist texts. Biletskiy denies holding racist or neo-Nazi views and says he believes in values-based nationalism.

The Stanford Center for International Security and Cooperation describes the group as "an extreme-right nationalist paramilitary organisation based in Ukraine".

NATIONAL GUARD

In 2014, the Azov militia was folded into Ukraine's National Guard - a military wing of the interior ministry. Kyiv says it has been reformed away from its radical nationalist origins and that it has nothing to do with politics.

"They are the official army of our state. Anyone who wanted to be involved in politics - they left and are now in politics. Those who decided to serve in the Armed Forces became part of the Armed Forces," President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said in an interview with Greek channel ERT on May 1.

In a statement to CNN last month, Azov said it "appreciates and respects Andriy Biletskiy as the regiment's founder and first commander, but we have nothing to do with his political activities and the National Corps party".

The statement said that Azov's "motivation has always angered Russia. Therefore, disinformation attacks on the Azov Regiment have not stopped since 2014".

It denies allegations of fascism, Nazism and racism and says that Ukrainians from various backgrounds including Greeks, Jews, Crimean Tatars, and Russians serve in Azov.

The regiment's current and fourth commander is Denys Prokopenko, who has been dubbed a Hero of Ukraine by Zelenskiy, who is Jewish.  .  .  .

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-05-17/factbox-last-defenders-of-mariupol-what-is-ukraines-azov-regiment
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 03:57:41 am
The truth about the Azov Battalion has been know for years and years.   I'm still trying to understand why so many have such difficulty accepting this.

Their history is what prompted this Congressional (in)action.....
I wasn't questioning that there are a relatively few localized troops there who call themselves the Azov Battalion who harbor such severe anticommunist sentiments they are 'neo'-Nazis.

Lest we forget, Hitler himself was fighting Communists in his rise to power, and with Operation Barbarossa, really went after Stalin, so, in that sense I can see the idealogy that might develop over a false dichotomy that one was either one or the other. Totalitarianism has a certain appeal to some folks, and they chose their flavor.
Which completely left out concepts like equal Rights, which most Americans embrace.

But in no universe known to humankind, is either totalitarian government one of equal opportunity or a paragon of human rights. I place the Communists at the top of that totalitarian dungheap because there are so many more of them in power, they are eminently better liars, and most of the real Nazis are dead (good riddance!).

If we could, finding the Nazis to be a prevailing threat in the 1940s, ally with Stalinist Communists to eliminate that threat, then certainly, no matter how distasteful we find their ideology, we could at least consider, for the purposes of this conflict, that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. The paltry few who embrace Nazi ideology are a far smaller threat to the harmony of international relations and welfare of all nations than latter-day retread Communists who rattle nuclear sabers at the world.

It is pretty damned close to the sort of rationale that allowed Roosevelt and Churchill and Stalin to sit at the same conference table and hammer out deals to defeat Hitler, only without giving entire nations away to the Communist yoke in the process. The Azov Battalion may have been a thorn in Putin's side, but are in no danger of causing some resurgence of the Third Reich because many of their fundamental beliefs have been thoroughly discredited among the civilized peoples of the planet.

Unfortunately, Communist Imperialism is one of the greatest threats today, and appears to be growing in a whole spectrum of flavors, worldwide.

Choose your side wisely. Be careful what you wish for.

Discrediting the concept of modern Communist imperialism, militarily, from a distance, despite the corrupt tools we have in office to make that happen should be, I would think, a desirable outcome. Feather Merchants and thieves are nothing new, either.

In this case I am having a hard time celebrating the demise of any who have resisted the Russian invasion of Ukraine, regardless of their ideology. They were willing to die for their beliefs, which commands a modicum of respect, and if they have been captured, there is a very good chance they will, in fact, die anyway, if the Russian treatment of prisoners in the past is any indication.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 20, 2022, 07:16:20 am
And you've still not explained what you mean by this hyperbole @DB  ------  Why not give it a shot?

@Right_in_Virginia  @DB

What he means is you are what is called "a surrender monkey". Back in the 50's,people like you were identified as the "Better Red than dead" crowd.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 10:34:08 am
@Right_in_Virginia  @DB

What he means is you are what is called "a surrender monkey". Back in the 50's,people like you were identified as the "Better Red than dead" crowd.

Well, @sneakypete   --- lucky for me we're not living in the 1950s. 

We've no reason to involve this nation in a border conflict 5,000 miles away that has been ongoing for 100 years and will continue for at least another hundred.  Prioritizing Ukraine's border integrity over our own further weakens the United States and accelerates our own demise.

We've no reason to further bankrupt this nation to arm the Ukranian military and pay the salaries of Ukrainian government employees, period ----- but we do have dozens of reasons NOT to at a time when our economy is unraveling before our eyes in real time.  The combined financial and military might of the European Union is sufficient to handle the skirmishes in its own neighborhood.  Let them.

Ukraine is not an ally, not a member of NATO and we have no obligation to put its needs before those of the United States.  Ukraine is a black hole of international corruption masquerading as a nation.  Transport Ukraine's border conflict to Africa and it wouldn't be on our radar, never mind the near obsession it has become.

Every so-called "threat" to the United States by the Russia/Ukraine border conflict has been created, managed and amplified by our own lying government.  There is no valid reason for our involvement.

Without apology:   Today, in the year 2022, I remain opposed to surrendering the United States to Ukraine.. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 10:52:28 am
Re:  Reply #677

I read your post a few times @Smokin Joe and thank you for the reply.

I'd like to respond to it, but I'm a little confused.  When I feel confident I've understood your thesis, you appear to modify it in the next paragraph.

This is a sincere, snark-free question:  Have you a bottom line summary of your opinion?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 20, 2022, 11:09:33 am
'It's meaningless to hope for victory': Top Russian ex-spy turned influencer warns Putin's offensive in Eastern Ukraine is going 'very bad', troops will suffer 'huge losses' while their leadership leaves 'much to be desired'

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
20 May 2022

Russia has virtually no hope of winning its war in Ukraine even if it manages to seize the whole of Donbas in the coming weeks, a former spy and commander who was instrumental in starting the original conflict has said.

Igor Girkin - who goes by the nom-de-guerre Igor Strelkov, meaning 'shooter' - has given a withering assessment of Putin's war effort, saying that Russian units are suffering 'huge losses' by 'banging their heads against' deeply entrenched Ukrainian troops, and are being led by commanders who 'leave much to be desired.'

Despite Russia making piecemeal gains on the Donbas front in recent days - capturing towns around Popansa and pushing to encircle Severodonetsk - Strelkov says Ukraine is fast-mobilising new troops, rearming using Western weapons, and digging into new defensive positions that will be hard to overrun.

It is 'meaningless to hope for victory' without a general mobilisation of Russia's army, Strelkov argues, which Putin refuses to do because he is being molly-coddled by his inner circle into believing victory is still possible. As long he remains shielded from reality 'nothing will change, and when it does change... it will be too late to do anything.'

Once the Russian offensive grinds to a halt - something Strelkov predicts could happen as soon as mid-June - Ukraine will then switch to counter attacks as it did around Kyiv and Kharkiv, forcing Putin's commanders on to the back foot and likely pushing their badly-mauled units backwards - perhaps to their own borders.

But even if no counter-attacks come, Russia will be faced with the prospect of trying to hold a long front line against well-armed and newly-reinforced Ukrainian defenders who will refuse to give up the fight, all the while Russia's economy will flatline under sanctions.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10836379/Ukraine-war-Ex-Russian-commander-says-meaningless-hope-victory-Donbas.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 20, 2022, 11:11:46 am
Putin's top security officials believe 'the war is lost' and a coup is a realistic possibility, Russia analyst says

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
19 May 2022

Vladimir Putin's top security officials understand that the war in Ukraine is 'lost' and a coup is now a realistic possibility, a Russian analyst has predicted.

Christo Grozev, a Russia expert, believes GRU and FSB elites are the most likely to try and topple Putin, because they know the truth of what is happening on the ground.

And those elites are already looking for ways to move their money and families out of the country in anticipation of Putin falling, Grozev claims.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10833839/Ukraine-war-Putins-security-officials-know-war-lost-analyst-says.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 20, 2022, 12:07:32 pm
Well, @sneakypete   --- lucky for me we're not living in the 1950s. 

We've no reason to involve this nation in a border conflict 5,000 miles away that has been ongoing for 100 years and will continue for at least another hundred.  Prioritizing Ukraine's border integrity over our own further weakens the United States and accelerates our own demise.



I find it so bizarre that Pete is maybe GWB's harshest critic, which I concur, but is almost in lock step embracing his nation building, and interventionist policies.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Mod2 on May 20, 2022, 01:18:45 pm
This thread is not about other TBR members. It's about current events in Ukraine. Keep it that way.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 20, 2022, 02:34:04 pm
What I mean to say, Comrade… Russian colonel who dared to criticise Putin’s Ukraine invasion on state TV changes his tune days later to hail Russia's military might

By DAVID AVERRE and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
20 May 2022

A retired Russian military commander has re-appeared on state television warning Ukrainian officials not to underestimate Russia's military and economic might, despite having disparaged his nation's war efforts live on air just days ago.

Mikhail Khodaryonok, a former air defence commander and graduate of some of the Soviet Union's top military schools, took to the stage yesterday where he waxed lyrical about the quality of Russian weapons and boasted about the strength of the military.

'The Russian Federation has not yet committed even a tenth of its military and economic potential.. so be careful what you wish for, gentlemen!' the colonel quipped.

'When a country buys Western-made equipment, it sometimes stops working or malfunctions right in the heat of battle.... our arms are different in their reliability - you get exactly the weapons described,' he declared.

But his comments directly contradicted his interview broadcast just days ago, when he appeared on the same show and gave a distinctly bleak prognosis for Russia's war.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10837007/Retired-Kremlin-colonel-gave-damning-assessment-Ukraine-invasion-suddenly-backtracks-claim.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 20, 2022, 02:34:50 pm
What I mean to say, Comrade… Russian colonel who dared to criticise Putin’s Ukraine invasion on state TV changes his tune days later to hail Russia's military might

By DAVID AVERRE and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
20 May 2022

A retired Russian military commander has re-appeared on state television warning Ukrainian officials not to underestimate Russia's military and economic might, despite having disparaged his nation's war efforts live on air just days ago.

Mikhail Khodaryonok, a former air defence commander and graduate of some of the Soviet Union's top military schools, took to the stage yesterday where he waxed lyrical about the quality of Russian weapons and boasted about the strength of the military.

'The Russian Federation has not yet committed even a tenth of its military and economic potential.. so be careful what you wish for, gentlemen!' the colonel quipped.

'When a country buys Western-made equipment, it sometimes stops working or malfunctions right in the heat of battle.... our arms are different in their reliability - you get exactly the weapons described,' he declared.

But his comments directly contradicted his interview broadcast just days ago, when he appeared on the same show and gave a distinctly bleak prognosis for Russia's war.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10837007/Retired-Kremlin-colonel-gave-damning-assessment-Ukraine-invasion-suddenly-backtracks-claim.html


Would that be the 7.62mm recantation?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 20, 2022, 03:07:09 pm
Well, @sneakypete   --- lucky for me we're not living in the 1950s. 

We've no reason to involve this nation in a border conflict 5,000 miles away that has been ongoing for 100 years and will continue for at least another hundred.   

@Right_in_Virginia

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

You just keep telling yourself that if that is what you need to believe to get through the day.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 20, 2022, 03:28:46 pm
Putin's top security officials believe 'the war is lost' and a coup is a realistic possibility, Russia analyst says

    @Kamaji

That left the realm of "possibility" and turned into "Probability" almost immediately after the invasion began.

I don't know what passed through Putin's mind,other that to GUESS that he honestly believed the Ukrainians would just roll over on their backs and beg to not be hurt,but there is just no excuse for him to have continued the aggression after it because so obvious the invasion was stalled and there was no real hope of winning because the Ukrainians were NOT going to surrender.

And,to be honest,at that point it ceased being all about Putin because the few people in the Politburo that may have had the power/authority to tell him to back off didn't,so they all now share in the guilt and shame of losing a war THEY started.

It is no secret that one of the biggest challenges any of us face is to truly admit we made a mistake,and you can multiply this by a million when it comes to the creatures we call "national leaders". They all have egos the size of the known universe. This is what makes it so hard for them to admit to having made a mistake,and backing away from it.

The USUAL historic end-result has been the complete and total destruction of the losing nation,as well as the destruction of the culture they had been living under.

The problem here is that at no time in history has this ever happened to a nation that has nuclear arms.

All we can do is hope there are enough patriots in the Russian Army that are willing to place the survival of Russia and the Russian people ahead of self,and do whatever it is they have to do in order to get a leadership change and an end to the war.

This IS going to be hard to do because Russians seem to have an inferiority complex that makes them uber-defensive,and because the price they will have to pay will no only be high in Rubles to cover damages,but VERY high in bruised and battered egos.

The loss of money is nothing compared to the loss of ego. We can only hope the loss of their own lives and the lives of their families is more important to them than a big dent in their egos.

The only "bright star of hope" in this scenario is that some of the really "big boys in power" in Russia will be able to see through the temporary "bump in the road" to the point where they will come to be seen as "the saviors and new leaders of Russia" as Russia recovers and rebuilds.

Face it,ANY Russian pol that gets out ahead of this thing and calls for a retreat and the end of this war is going to take some dents at first,but the rewards are going to be enormous after the invasion ends and the troops come back to Russia.

Don't forget,this war was due to what the political leadership of Russia wanted,not the people of Russia. Once the typical Russian citizen finds out what it cost Russia in terms of global respect and status,dead and crippled for life young Russian troops,and national bankruptcy that will surely lead to things like food rationing and shortages of practically everything,it could really have a profound effect on the political direction Russia takes in the upcoming decades.

Who knows? She might even have actual elections?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 04:20:15 pm
This is a sincere, snark-free question:  Have you a bottom line summary of your opinion?

Thanks in advance.

Good guys - Ukraine
Bad  guys  - Russia

It should become apparent once one checks the veracity of the claims that have been coming from Russia for the past ten years.  Take the "Azov Battalion" narrative, for example.  A militia unit was founded as a response to a 2014  Russian invasion, and was led by a political extremist.  By the end of that year, that leader was expelled, entering the field of politics instead.  The "Azov Battalion" was then incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard, being given the new designation of "Azov Regiment".  Under the new authority of the Ukrainian Military, the unit ceased being a political militia.

Yet Russian propaganda has continued for eight years, painting a false narrative on its current status and designation.  That same false Russian propaganda has littered these boards for the past three months.   And no matter how many times that propaganda is exposed and discredited for the lies they are, it keeps getting posted.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 04:27:52 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTMXKOcXoAELt1q?format=jpg&name=medium)

Another fixed wing aircraft.  Another helicopter.  Five UAVs.  One artillery.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 04:30:24 pm
So this building was a well known target for those fighting the "Nazis" in Ukraine, and not even symbolically worth a bomb run?

Excellent point.  Schools, theaters, apartment buildings, all leveled to the ground.  Yet not a single strike on the building in this video.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 04:30:59 pm
It should become apparent once one checks.....

Hope that helps.

Respecfully @Hoodat  my post and question were not to you. Your 2,000 posts on these Ukraine threads have been illuminating enough for me.




Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 20, 2022, 04:41:27 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

I luv ya even more for your confession @sneakypete .....   

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 20, 2022, 05:37:05 pm
Putin ally says the Ukraine war is a REHEARSAL for a bigger conflict between Russia and NATO and a 'learning experience'

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
20 May 2022

A Russian political science professor has claimed the war in Ukraine could simply be a 'rehearsal' for a bigger conflict, allowing Russia's military to test and compare its firepower with that of NATO.

Alexei Fenenko, an associate professor at Moscow State University's school of world politics and a research fellow at the Institute of International Security Studies, made the incredible claim yesterday during a talk show on Kremlin-controlled TV channel Russia One.

'I think the war in Ukraine... is a rehearsal for a possible larger conflict in the future. We are testing our weapons against those of NATO, we will find out how much stronger our weapons are than theirs,' the professor declared.

'It could be a good learning experience for future conflicts,' he added, before talk show host Olga Skabeyeva interjected: 'It's a scary experiment.'

The outlandish statement is the latest example of the Kremlin's attempts to control the narrative surrounding its invasion of Ukraine, in which Putin's forces have suffered huge losses and are coming under counter-attacks along the eastern front in the Kharkiv, Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10837679/Putin-ally-says-Ukraine-war-REHEARSAL-bigger-conflict-Russia-NATO.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 20, 2022, 05:38:46 pm
Putin ally says the Ukraine war is a REHEARSAL for a bigger conflict between Russia and NATO and a 'learning experience'

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
20 May 2022

A Russian political science professor has claimed the war in Ukraine could simply be a 'rehearsal' for a bigger conflict, allowing Russia's military to test and compare its firepower with that of NATO.

Alexei Fenenko, an associate professor at Moscow State University's school of world politics and a research fellow at the Institute of International Security Studies, made the incredible claim yesterday during a talk show on Kremlin-controlled TV channel Russia One.

'I think the war in Ukraine... is a rehearsal for a possible larger conflict in the future. We are testing our weapons against those of NATO, we will find out how much stronger our weapons are than theirs,' the professor declared.

'It could be a good learning experience for future conflicts,' he added, before talk show host Olga Skabeyeva interjected: 'It's a scary experiment.'

The outlandish statement is the latest example of the Kremlin's attempts to control the narrative surrounding its invasion of Ukraine, in which Putin's forces have suffered huge losses and are coming under counter-attacks along the eastern front in the Kharkiv, Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10837679/Putin-ally-says-Ukraine-war-REHEARSAL-bigger-conflict-Russia-NATO.html


Ahh, so it wasn't about the liberation of the break-away provinces, or about de-nazi-fying Ukraine.  Now it's about proving how good Russian weapons are against NATO weapons.

:silly:

If that's the case, then Russia should be petitioning to join NATO because, to be perfectly honest, Russian weapons suck compared to NATO weapons.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 05:47:45 pm
Respecfully @Hoodat  my post and question were not to you. Your 2,000 posts on these Ukraine threads have been illuminating enough for me.

I had assumed you were wanting a "bottom line summary".  My mistake.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 05:50:05 pm
Re:  Reply #677

I read your post a few times @Smokin Joe and thank you for the reply.

I'd like to respond to it, but I'm a little confused.  When I feel confident I've understood your thesis, you appear to modify it in the next paragraph.

This is a sincere, snark-free question:  Have you a bottom line summary of your opinion?

Thanks in advance.
Certainly. You have consistently sided with the Communists in this, or perhaps just against Ukraine, frequently citing the false dichotomy that because the Ukrainians are not Communist, and in fact a small minority of the Ukrainian army (one unit) have claimed or been claimed to be Nazis, that all are Nazis. Another common theme is that because the career Russian puppets before Zelenskyy were corrupt and in bed with the Biden Family, that somehow means a person who was rich when he took office without having previously held any political position must be corrupt, too.(Which would make as much sense as saying because Obama was corrupt, Trump (also a rich guy and first time office holder) must be corrupt, too.)

Maybe the Nazi under the bed is the source of your angst, but frankly, the rare few who actually swallow that line of totalitarianism are not a significant enough threat in the geopolitical reality of today to embrace the very Communist ideology that is tearing this country apart and has enslaved well over a third of the world's population, not to mention murdering close to a hundred million people in the last century.

Even today, those who embrace Communism have been and are calling any opposition "Nazis".
Don't like 'woke"? You're a Nazi.
Aren't buying the nonbinary gender bullshit? You're a "Nazi".
Nothing new, this same 'logic' has been going on since the '60s. Communist radicals then called anyone not on board with their crap a "Nazi", too.
Agree with Tucker Carlson? Yep, you guessed it, because he isn't sucking up to the Communists.

So it is only natural and normal that the Russians would be calling anyone and everyone opposed to them "Nazis". After all, it evokes memories to the glory days of the "Great Patriotic War" (even though Stalin was in bed with Hitler until Hitler kicked him out), against the Nazis, (Which, aside from keeping Stalin from being deposed, turned into a fine opportunity to subjugate a significant part of Europe, which incidentally, was what Hitler was up to, too).

Don't think for a second that some Americans didn't get filthy rich supplying the Soviets during the second World War, too. The more money is flying around, the more of an emergency there is, the more opportunities there are for graft and corruption, especially close to the source of those funds.  Biden's bunch will have their cut long before a cartridge comes out of the other end of the pipeline.

You constantly mention the Azov Battalion as "Nazis", and so they claim, or at least some of them. However, they are shooting at the Neo-Communists of Russia, and resisting the seizure of the Eastern Provinces of the Ukraine by Russian (Neo-Communist) Imperialism.  Putin's stated goal is to reconstitute the USSR, albeit under a different brand name, but key to that strategy is the control of energy supplies to Western Europe. Georgia was invaded to prevent a pipeline that would have undermined Russian Energy Hegemony over Europe. The whole green New Deal has, at its Socialist roots, the aim of crippling the west's industry, as has the Environmental movement since the KGB started dropping money into outfits like Greenpeace and others in the 1970s. The Eastern Provinces of Ukraine have nearly 90% of the country's oil production, significant manufacturing and coal, and controlling the ports means Russia would control grain shipments (which haven't been interfered with, so long as the grain is on Russian ships).  This is a naked attempt to lock up resources or flat-out steal them at gunpoint, and hold Europe hostage by controlling those same resources.

I am all for self-determination, and Russia should butt out. Ukraine can deal with their own disagreements, but the minute someone who wasn't a Russian puppet is in power, Russia decides to go "liberating separatist provinces" like they did in Bosnia, and Georgia, and Eastern Europe before they rebranded the Soviet Union and declared communism "dead".  Communism has never been so healthy as it is post-mortem.

To this end, propaganda is a tool that has been one of the sharpest arrows in the quiver of the Communists since Kaiser Wilhelm sent Lenin to stir up trouble in Russia, down to the very name "Bolshevik". The Russians are very good at disinformation, misinformation, and outright lying as tools to gain and retain international sympathy and power.

We Americans used to be very sensitive to the phraseology and techniques and even the artwork, but they have refined their craft, and we have become numbed to the normal triggers and indicators by the Orwellian language used by our own government, and the soviet-like degradation of art since the 1930s.

The Russians, locked into dichotomous reasoning in Europe will naturally harp on Nazis to evoke every deserved negative sentiment toward that flavor of totalitarianism, but that doesn't make the Russian flavor any more palatable for anyone who yearns to set their own course in their own country, regardless of that latter outcome.

I have a hard time not seeing Russia crowing about destroying the headquarters of the Azov Battalion to demoralize the unit, and the building shown (in better shape than many American High Schools), really doesn't indicate anything to me that couldn't be set up to parade reporters through, complete with a 'guide'.


Bottom line, though, in any conflict, is that those people shooting at your enemy are likely people you can work with, no matter how distasteful you may or may not find their philosophy. As I said before, these people have put their lives on the line to defend their homeland. They are a minority in their own country. Many have died, and those who surrendered probably will, too, because the Russians have a long history of treating prisoners very poorly.

Naturally, the Russians will accuse them of perpetrating any horrors the Russians perpetrated. It's a common propaganda tool used by anyone from that camp (see also how the Left in America accuses those "nazis" who disagree with them of the same crimes they, themselves, commit).

But that only addresses the rhetoric of the Russians and their sympathizers, predictably driven into the Russian camp by the mention of Nazis, as intended by those who emphasize it.

The bottom line is that we have no boots on the ground in Ukraine, provide no air cover, and that the Ukrainians are fighting for their right to self-determination, aided by the supply of weapons from the West. They have a slew of political parties over there, most minor, but it seems all but the Communists "separatists" (like there were in Bosnia and Georgia), and likely some Russian plants/recruits, want to fight for the opportunity to sort their own government out without a Russian puppet at the helm. 

We aren't "Nation Building" and should not be. Provide the Ukrainians the tools they need to build their own nation without the Russians running it, and leave them to it. We have no troops on the ground--nor should we. We have no planes in the air--nor should we.

What could be more American than providing the tools for another nation to determine their own destiny?
If we are honest about it, it was the French Navy keeping Cornwallis' troops from being evacuated that led to the surrender at Yorktown and winning our freedom to decide for ourselves what course we would take.
Since then, we have intervened on behalf of many, but here is a rare opportunity to do so without direct troop involvement.

As for the kleptocracy in DC, they see an opportunity for skimming anything and everything from claimed direct aid to kickbacks from weapons contracts. Emergency funding is seldom fully scrutinized and rides a populist wave through Congress, which means enhanced opportunities to siphon off fortunes, and the more, the better to skim it.

Those sh*tbirds will find a way to loot the public coffers anyway, at least a trickle of this will go to a cause I can support--arming people to determine their own government.

This
Quote
In this case I am having a hard time celebrating the demise of any who have resisted the Russian invasion of Ukraine, regardless of their ideology. They were willing to die for their beliefs, which commands a modicum of respect, and if they have been captured, there is a very good chance they will, in fact, die anyway, if the Russian treatment of prisoners in the past is any indication.
does not contradict anything I said.

If there was some other paragraph you had a problem with, be more specific, and perhaps I can address your confusion.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 20, 2022, 05:50:28 pm
Putin's top security officials believe 'the war is lost' and a coup is a realistic possibility, Russia analyst says

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
19 May 2022

Vladimir Putin's top security officials understand that the war in Ukraine is 'lost' and a coup is now a realistic possibility, a Russian analyst has predicted.

Christo Grozev, a Russia expert, believes GRU and FSB elites are the most likely to try and topple Putin, because they know the truth of what is happening on the ground.

And those elites are already looking for ways to move their money and families out of the country in anticipation of Putin falling, Grozev claims.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10833839/Ukraine-war-Putins-security-officials-know-war-lost-analyst-says.html

Lets hope there is truth in this. I think getting rid of Putin won't be very easy. He has been in power for a long time and in a country so corrupt that is no easy feat.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 20, 2022, 05:52:38 pm
If Ukraine is a rehearsal, they need more more rehearsal time.  They are not ready for opening night.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 20, 2022, 05:57:49 pm
Certainly. You have consistently sided with the Communists in this, or perhaps just against Ukraine, frequently citing the false dichotomy that because the Ukrainians are not Communist, and in fact a small minority of the Ukrainian army (one unit) have claimed or been claimed to be Nazis, that all are Nazis. Another common theme is that because the career Russian puppets before Zelenskyy were corrupt and in bed with the Biden Family, that somehow means a person who was rich when he took office without having previously held any political position must be corrupt, too.(Which would make as much sense as saying because Obama was corrupt, Trump (also a rich guy and first time office holder) must be corrupt, too.)

Maybe the Nazi under the bed is the source of your angst, but frankly, the rare few who actually swallow that line of totalitarianism .  .  .  .

Well said, @Smokin Joe .  Every word.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 20, 2022, 05:58:04 pm
Quote
A Russian political science professor has claimed the war in Ukraine could simply be a 'rehearsal' for a bigger conflict, allowing Russia's military to test and compare its firepower with that of NATO.

I guess they failed the test?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 20, 2022, 05:58:09 pm
If Ukraine is a rehearsal, they need more more rehearsal time.  They are not ready for opening night.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 06:53:04 pm
I guess they failed the test?
Even a failed experiment is a source of data.
Failure in Ukraine does not mean they will abandon their goals of seizing resources, from Ukraine or elsewhere, just that the plan will be modified before the next attempt.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 20, 2022, 07:11:08 pm
If the Ruskies can't have Donbas/Ukraine, they'll use subversion and sabotage to keep Ukraine from succeeding.  It will be another one of Russia's frozen wars.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 20, 2022, 08:12:14 pm
Even a failed experiment is a source of data.
Failure in Ukraine does not mean they will abandon their goals of seizing resources, from Ukraine or elsewhere, just that the plan will be modified before the next attempt.


True enough, just as much for NATO as for Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 20, 2022, 08:15:01 pm
Putin ally says the Ukraine war is a REHEARSAL for a bigger conflict between Russia and NATO and a 'learning experience'

 

Ok,it's good to know that other nations also have bat-shit crazy professors.

Even though this does NOT speak well for the future of the world,it's good to know we ain't alone.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 20, 2022, 08:23:01 pm

....Even today, those who embrace Communism have been and are calling any opposition "Nazis". ......

 

@Smokin Joe

Joe,as I sure you are aware,the HISTORICAL FACT is that the Nazi's and the Communists were ALLIES when WW-2 began. In FACT,the Communists didn't break this pact until Russia was invaded by the Nazi's. Suddenly,overnight,their bestest goombas that they shared so much with,were evil villians!

The saddest part about this is that this FAR from being any sort of secret. I don't know about now,but it USED to be mentioned in every book about the history of WW-2 that was ever written. Yet,nobody even bothers to mention this today. Not even the politicians who claim to be anti-Communist.

 Why isn't it?

Professional courtesy?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 20, 2022, 08:25:10 pm

 If there was some other paragraph you had a problem with, be more specific, and perhaps I can address your confusion.

@Smokin Joe  @Right_in_Virginia

I wish ya the best of luck on that one Joe,but I ain't optimistic about it.

Ya needed to throw in "We need to surrender to our Communist Masters and beg for mercy so they don't hurt us!" in every other sentence. That might have helped.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 20, 2022, 08:31:39 pm
Lets hope there is truth in this. I think getting rid of Putin won't be very easy. He has been in power for a long time and in a country so corrupt that is no easy feat.

@bilo

The plain hard fact is the Communist leadership is NOT composed of lunatics. They may have nothing but contempt for the proletariat that they are supposed to be protecting,but the one basic truth is the  want themselves and their families to survive.

There is no way anyone with with a trace of sanity left can see Putin as anything but a threat to both them and to Russia.  They might be playing kissy-face in public and posing right at the moment,but you just KNOW they have to be whispering to each other when the microphones and cameras are off.

In fact,it is MY belief all this sudden whispering about Putin's health is proof they are setting the stage to have him removed for "health reasons." If they can get by with doing that,they MIGHT be able to continue to hold onto power. If they don't,they might end up finding their own wrinkled old asses backed up against a brick wall when "Russian Revolution,Part 2" becomes a reality.

The typical Russian of today is no where near as misinformed and ignorant to reality as their grandfathers were. No matter how hard you might try,you really can't block radio and tv signals from crossing your border.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 11:23:32 pm
@Smokin Joe

Joe,as I sure you are aware,the HISTORICAL FACT is that the Nazi's and the Communists were ALLIES when WW-2 began. In FACT,the Communists didn't break this pact until Russia was invaded by the Nazi's. Suddenly,overnight,their bestest goombas that they shared so much with,were evil villians!

The saddest part about this is that this FAR from being any sort of secret. I don't know about now,but it USED to be mentioned in every book about the history of WW-2 that was ever written. Yet,nobody even bothers to mention this today. Not even the politicians who claim to be anti-Communist.

 Why isn't it?

Professional courtesy?
I think it is because the latter day Communists who are trying to sell their crap think it would be a bad thing if people all over realized that there is only a few seconds of separation (as opposed to degrees) between the totalitarian National Socialists and the totalitarian Bolshevik (Stalinist) brand Marxists. They were both reading from the same totalitarian playbook and were busy divvying up Eastern Europe and (looting it), murdering millions along the way (well, until Hitler got greedy) .

Why, a history of that sort of camaraderie might give the Communists a bad name.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 20, 2022, 11:32:08 pm
@bilo

The plain hard fact is the Communist leadership is NOT composed of lunatics. They may have nothing but contempt for the proletariat that they are supposed to be protecting,but the one basic truth is the  want themselves and their families to survive.
True that. They may be greedy, evil totalitarians who have no qualm about their opponents having unfortunate accidents, food additives, or feeling suicidal, but they will keep an iron grip on power, and do so in a cold and calculating, even diabolical manner.
Quote
There is no way anyone with with a trace of sanity left can see Putin as anything but a threat to both them and to Russia.  They might be playing kissy-face in public and posing right at the moment,but you just KNOW they have to be whispering to each other when the microphones and cameras are off.

If they can find some place or means to communicate without it being less than private.
Quote
In fact,it is MY belief all this sudden whispering about Putin's health is proof they are setting the stage to have him removed for "health reasons." If they can get by with doing that,they MIGHT be able to continue to hold onto power. If they don't,they might end up finding their own wrinkled old asses backed up against a brick wall when "Russian Revolution,Part 2" becomes a reality.

They have always been willing to throw one of 'their own' under the bus for survival and career advancement reasons. Look at Stalin's purges.
Quote
The typical Russian of today is no where near as misinformed and ignorant to reality as their grandfathers were. No matter how hard you might try,you really can't block radio and tv signals from crossing your border.

It depends on how well informed they actually are. Imagine only being able to get ABCNNBCBS on your teevee, and not having a shortwave set to listen to elsewhere... Even today, I would imagine there are limits to how well the average Russian is informed, but I would bet those so inclined have found means to determine when the government is really telling whoppers compared to ordinary every day lies.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 21, 2022, 12:38:54 am
 
It depends on how well informed they actually are. Imagine only being able to get ABCNNBCBS on your teevee, and not having a shortwave set to listen to elsewhere... Even today, I would imagine there are limits to how well the average Russian is informed, but I would bet those so inclined have found means to determine when the government is really telling whoppers compared to ordinary every day lies.

@Smokin Joe

I dunno about today,but I spent a couple of weeks in Russia right after the "collapse of communism". I spent this time visiting and talking with Russian "e-mail friends". One was a woman in her mid-30's whose father was an official "Hero of the Soviet Union" during WW-2,and working as a professor at some university in Moscow.

He was never around their luxurious (compared to the typical "Soviet Apartment") when I was there,and the reason was unspoken. Maybe he refused to be exposed to an American gangster,or maybe he was still afraid of what might happen to him if he was known to have been associating with an American. Don't know,don't really care.

What I do know is that both his daughter and his granddaughter had NO misgivings about either freedom or capitalism. I also know that their apartment was maybe 3 times the size of any other Russian apartment I visited,and they even had modern (Swedish) appliances from the GUM Department store,not the typical "Soviet" stuff seen in any other apartment I visited. Both the daughter and the granddaughter were pretty informed about life in the west,wanted more of it,and weren't hesitant about saying so.

The next time I visited I went to a Providence named "Yoshkar-Ola" and visited with a married couple who were both professors at the local college. The man's father had been a Colonel in the KGB,and he told me tales of how his father had the phones in his own apartment tapped to make sure there was no "wrong doing or wrong thinking and speaking" going on there that would get them into trouble. He taught electrical engineering. He also told me about how made his own radio and used to go up on the roof and listen to "Radio Free Europe" on his radio when his father wasn't home because he liked western rock music. In other words,he was both the son of a KGB Colonel,and a rebel.

His wife was a linguist that wrote and spoke several languages,including the almost extinct "Mari" language. The Mari were the original people that dominated that area until the Communists took over and moved everybody into the cities and made the cities all industrial areas. She was half-Mari.

I really freaked out when she sent me emails with photos of the Mari people. Would you believe birch-bark canoes,feathers in their hair,big "blade" noses,teepees, dark red skin?

The only people still speaking the Mari Language were a few Mari in Yoskhar-Ola,and a tribe in the remote parts of another European country whose name I can't remember at the moment,who were nomadic and herded reindeer. She would go there every summer and teach them how to read and write in Mari. She was one of the few people in the world that could read and speak the language.

She insisted the museum would be the first place we would visit when I got there,and I freaked out looking at the photos and the artifacts. As I have mentioned here before,I am 1/4 Tuscarora Indian,and my grandmother was full-blooded. I turned to her and said "Shit,you ain't nothing but an American Indian! Hello,CUZ!",which got a big laugh from her.

BTW,the Mari Museum is on the web now. I can't remember the URL,but you can just type "Mari Museum" into your search engine and find it. LOTS of photos and lots of info if that sort of thing interests you.

And all this was within 2 years of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Just imagine how informed the Russian people are today. Also,consider the fact that to the typical Soviet Citizen that had damn little privacy or consumer convenience items,the one thing they all had was pride in their personal accomplishments and knowledge,and being called "ignorant" was the biggest insult possible.

I only met one Russian citizen that was hostile to me in two trips there,and it was a old man still wearing his WW-2 medals on his cheap suit on the Moscow Subway. He ranted for a few minutes to me in Russian,and you could have heard a pin drop in that subway car. Being rude was in the same category to Russian as being ignorant/uninformed,and he was being rude in public. He received absolutely zero support from the other riders.

I did ALMOST have a little dust up with some newly rich Russian asshat in a new Mercedes that damn near ran over the daughter of the woman I was with when he ran a red light. I screamed a few obscenities at him and threw something that hit his car,and he stopped right in the middle of the intersection  and jumped out of his car. I guess his plan was to scream at or threaten me,but since I was running right at him,he decided to get back in his car and haul ass. Probably a good thing for both of us. I wouldn't have fared well in a Moscow lockup.

The Russian people know more about what is going on that our media is willing to admit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2022, 01:04:30 am
@sneakypete From what I could see, there were some similarities between the Mari and the Natives of the Northeast US. By the time you get out to the plains, a different lifestyle because of different resources. Longhouses give way to wikiups, dugouts, and tipis, and instead of applique on the clothing, it was more quillwork, elk teeth, and bone until the white man started trading beads for fur. A notable exception, the Mandan Earthlodges, which are the oldest known 'permanent' structures in North Dakota, AFAIK, and likely there were shell and even a few copper ornaments here and there before the white man came. (Copper mined as native copper metal in Northern Michigan).  Trade routes were phenomenal and it is amazing what made it from north to south, and east/west in the way of stuff. With those traveling salesmen, no doubt some gene pools got altered a mite, too, which is healthy for any small band.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 21, 2022, 02:06:25 am
@sneakypete From what I could see, there were some similarities between the Mari and the Natives of the Northeast US. By the time you get out to the plains, a different lifestyle because of different resources. Longhouses give way to wikiups, dugouts, and tipis, and instead of applique on the clothing, it was more quillwork, elk teeth, and bone until the white man started trading beads for fur. A notable exception, the Mandan Earthlodges, which are the oldest known 'permanent' structures in North Dakota, AFAIK, and likely there were shell and even a few copper ornaments here and there before the white man came. (Copper mined as native copper metal in Northern Michigan).  Trade routes were phenomenal and it is amazing what made it from north to south, and east/west in the way of stuff. With those traveling salesmen, no doubt some gene pools got altered a mite, too, which is healthy for any small band.

@Smokin Joe

Creating deeper gene pools was in everyone's best interest,so they didn't really take it personally. Knowing they were going to do the same thing to any tribe within striking range probably had something to do with it,too.

Besides,that was what passed for fun for most of the Indian tribes. Kinda like an "early NFL".

The plains tribes were the slackers of the Indian nations. Lazy bastards mostly followed the buffalo herds,unlike the eastern (maybe even the far western tribes?),that were big into farming as well as breeding animals for food.

I freely admit to knowing nothing about the tribes native to the left coast.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 21, 2022, 03:36:07 am
Ukraine says giant Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant can't supply Russia

Laurence Peter, BBC  |  14 hours ago

Ukraine has dismissed as "wishful thinking" Russia's plan to connect a giant Ukrainian nuclear power station to the Russian electricity grid.


Russian troops are occupying the sprawling Zaporizhzhia plant by the Dnieper River in southern Ukraine.

It is Europe's biggest nuclear plant. The Ukrainian staff are still operating it, but Russia has sent its own nuclear experts to monitor their work.

Russia's deputy prime minister has vowed to sell power from it to Ukraine.

Marat Khusnullin said Russia would integrate the Zaporizhzhia plant with Russia's energy system if Kyiv refused to pay for the plant's electricity.

Visiting Russian-occupied southern Ukraine on Wednesday he said "if the Ukrainian energy system is ready to receive [electricity] and pay for it, then we'll work, but if not - then the plant will work for Russia".  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524376



Zaporizhzhia is not in either Luhansk or Donetsk.  So all this Russian propaganda talk of liberating Donbas is complete bullshit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 21, 2022, 11:20:10 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTRkPT_WAAAEi1j?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2022, 11:40:41 am
@Smokin Joe

Creating deeper gene pools was in everyone's best interest,so they didn't really take it personally. Knowing they were going to do the same thing to any tribe within striking range probably had something to do with it,too.

Besides,that was what passed for fun for most of the Indian tribes. Kinda like an "early NFL".

The plains tribes were the slackers of the Indian nations. Lazy bastards mostly followed the buffalo herds,unlike the eastern (maybe even the far western tribes?),that were big into farming as well as breeding animals for food.

I freely admit to knowing nothing about the tribes native to the left coast.
Well, it really was follow the herds or starve. I have had reports of some of the coulees here with patches of edible food that may have been 'helped along', where something was there to eat almost any time of year now growing wild, but establishing permanent enough residence for agriculture some place generally just meant starvation. The Mandan were an exception who lived along the river, and did establish permanent villages. Most of the rest, though only occupied a site/area seasonally.  Not so slack when you consider the distances involved, breaking camp fairly regularly, and setting the whole village back up. The river bottoms had the challenge of dealing with spring flooding, too. Small winter the Sioux wintered in the Black Hills on high ground (and trees!).

Many of the descendants became cowboys, but Buffalo do not lend themselves to domestication (danged ornery critters), and deer aren't much known for it around these parts. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2022, 11:43:11 am
Ukraine says giant Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant can't supply Russia

Laurence Peter, BBC  |  14 hours ago

Ukraine has dismissed as "wishful thinking" Russia's plan to connect a giant Ukrainian nuclear power station to the Russian electricity grid.


Russian troops are occupying the sprawling Zaporizhzhia plant by the Dnieper River in southern Ukraine.

It is Europe's biggest nuclear plant. The Ukrainian staff are still operating it, but Russia has sent its own nuclear experts to monitor their work.

Russia's deputy prime minister has vowed to sell power from it to Ukraine.


Marat Khusnullin said Russia would integrate the Zaporizhzhia plant with Russia's energy system if Kyiv refused to pay for the plant's electricity.

Visiting Russian-occupied southern Ukraine on Wednesday he said "if the Ukrainian energy system is ready to receive [electricity] and pay for it, then we'll work, but if not - then the plant will work for Russia".  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61524376



Zaporizhzhia is not in either Luhansk or Donetsk.  So all this Russian propaganda talk of liberating Donbas is complete bullshit.
Tell me the one about how this is to 'save' Ukraine from the Nazis and not steal their resources (and sell them back to them). Either that or any story that begins with "Once upon a time..."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 21, 2022, 01:41:16 pm
Since little or none of the latest $40 gazillion Congress has gifted Ukraine will go for the stated purpose of helping Ukraine, maybe the money should be managed by Samaritan's Purse, who actually spend money as advertised.
Quote
Franklin Graham
@Franklin_Graham
.@SamaritansPurse has airlifted 101 metric tons of medical supplies to Ukraine since the conflict began. Continue to pray for those our teams and medical staff are helping in Jesus’ Name.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTSSG1sXoAQl0v_?format=jpg&name=large)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTSSG1qWAAMT5hm?format=jpg&name=large)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTSSG1qWAAIue6w?format=jpg&name=large)
9:37 AM · May 21, 2022
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 21, 2022, 02:27:07 pm
Well, it really was follow the herds or starve. 

@Smokin Joe

That's odd. I have heard rumors of stuff like corn and wheat being grown in the mid-west.

The eastern tribes were even growing tobacco and used it as trade goods.

I don't know,but am GUESSING some of the southern and south western tribes may have even grown some whacky tabaccy for fun and trade goods.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 21, 2022, 02:27:20 pm
May 21, 2022 4:02am EDT
Russia claims total control of Ukraine's Mariupol: 'complete liberation'
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy called the Russian occupation of Ukraine 'temporary'
By Lawrence Richard | Fox News

Russia now claims Mariupol, Ukraine is entirely under its control following the surrender of Ukrainian forces from the Azovstal steel plant, according to a senior official in the Russian government.

Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu told President Vladimir Putin that Russia’s military saw the "complete liberation" of the Ukrainian port city, which has been at the center of the Ukraine-Russia War for several weeks. It is the tenth-largest city in the country, and the second-largest in the Donetsk region, where most of the fighting has taken place.

Mariupol also serves a strategic function as it is located on the Sea of Azov, which would provide Russia's homeland a direct route to its military forces in Crimea. Its fall, which could not be independently verified, would undoubtedly be Russia’s biggest victory in the current conflict. 

Russia’s state news agency RIA Novosti announced the city fell with the surrender of 2,439 Ukrainian fighters, a figure much larger than previously reported.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-claims-liberation-ukraine-mariupol
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 21, 2022, 02:29:22 pm
Russia's deputy prime minister has vowed to sell power from it to Ukraine.

@Smokin Joe

That's awful "white" of him. Probably won't even charge much more than 110 percent of what they charge everyone else. After all,the Ruskies have a war to pay for.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 21, 2022, 03:57:59 pm
 May 21, 2022 10:23am EDT
Zelenskyy says UN, Red Cross order Russia to take its 'mountains of corpses'
Zelensky says Ukrainian forces have 'broken' Russia's troops 'psychologically'
By Caitlin McFall | Fox News

    The United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross have directed Russian President Vladimir Putin to remove his "mountain of corpses," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said Saturday.

"They abandoned their military," Zelenskyy said in an interview with a Ukrainian news outlet. "They were dying, but they didn't care. Recently I was told that they are only now thinking about taking the corpses.

"When the war started…they used to pretend that there were no corpses," he continued. "The UN and the Red Cross said – take these bags away. Mountains of corpses of their military."

more
https://www.foxnews.com/world/zelenskyy-un-red-cross-russia-mountains-corpses
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2022, 03:59:52 pm
@Smokin Joe

That's odd. I have heard rumors of stuff like corn and wheat being grown in the mid-west.

The eastern tribes were even growing tobacco and used it as trade goods.

I don't know,but am GUESSING some of the southern and south western tribes may have even grown some whacky tabaccy for fun and trade goods.
Corn and wheat further south and in the southwest, but those folks lived in hogans and rock shelters and pretty much stayed in the same place, and the Mandan may have practiced agriculture. But for the tribes roaming the prairie, not so much (besides, you can only camp somewhere for so long--it doesn't take long to crap behind every tree in sight in North Dakota). They were more nomadic in nature, following traditional patterns to stay with Buffalo herds moving to fresh grazing, within their tribal lands--especially when they got a hold of horses (which left the dogs to do light pack work/guard duty).
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 21, 2022, 08:30:47 pm

Giant Artillery Opens Fire As Russia Goes On The Attack In Donbas
David Axe, Forbes Staff - 8h ago

Fighting has sharply escalated in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region. Both sides are bringing in more and heavier artillery, adding to the carnage.

But it’s the Russians who have the biggest guns and mortars—and who are most willing to shoot indiscriminately. “In the coming weeks, Russia is likely to continue to rely heavily on massed artillery strikes as it attempts to regain momentum in its advance in the Donbas,” the U.K. Defence Ministry warned on Tuesday.

The Russian army for weeks has been trying to position forces for an operation it realistically can complete. Earlier in the war, the Kremlin’s aims were maximalist—capture Kyiv, advance across the Donbas and also cut off Ukraine from the Black Sea. But after the Russian army suffered heavy casualties in the abortive assault on Kyiv, Russian leaders pivoted.

Pulling its forces back from Kyiv and Ukraine’s second city Kharkiv, Russian leadership focused its efforts on Donbas. And not all of Donbas, but rather one small city: Severodonetsk, which anchors a pocket of Ukrainian forces south of Russian-occupied Izium and north of the town of Popasna.

more
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/giant-artillery-opens-fire-as-russia-goes-on-the-attack-in-donbas/ar-AAXyvrt?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=b27a198bbc7045778e399c1e6ed9e6e5
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 21, 2022, 08:50:04 pm
I am GUESSING that fighter-bombers from both sides are not being utilized to take out the artillery?

Don't really remember seeing much reporting about air strikes.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 21, 2022, 09:38:05 pm
"Indiscriminate" artillery isn't very effective at taking out enemy soldiers/weapons. It is essentially a terror weapon against civilians. If Ukraine can acquire and hit their targets, they'll take out the Russian soldiers/weapons in far greater numbers.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 21, 2022, 10:55:50 pm
"Indiscriminate" artillery isn't very effective at taking out enemy soldiers/weapons. It is essentially a terror weapon against civilians. If Ukraine can acquire and hit their targets, they'll take out the Russian soldiers/weapons in far greater numbers.
Counter-battery radar...(drones!)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 21, 2022, 11:09:03 pm
"Indiscriminate" artillery isn't very effective at taking out enemy soldiers/weapons. It is essentially a terror weapon against civilians. If Ukraine can acquire and hit their targets, they'll take out the Russian soldiers/weapons in far greater numbers.

@DB

That is HorseHillary squared. Never been under artillery fire,have you?

Or even watched many war movies from any war from the Revolutionary War to the last war?

Artillery fire is NOT accurate fire like rifle fire,but it doesn't have to be because when the shell hits and explodes,it sends out shrapnel to shred anyone within range.

The modern  155mm and 175mm arty pieces are a LOT more accurate than the old "smooth bore cannon" balls were,and a hell of a lot more deadly.

You might as well try to claim that bombing isn't effective. Try telling that to someone who has been bombed,or has never been inserted into a target hit by arty fire or bombers to do a "BDA" (Bomb Damage Assessment").

Granted,even the mightly 175's don't do the damage the 500 lb B-52 bombs make,but it is still pretty damn impressive,as well as scary. Sometimes enemy soldiers even die from concussion created by a nearby blast.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 21, 2022, 11:49:22 pm
@DB

That is HorseHillary squared. Never been under artillery fire,have you?

Or even watched many war movies from any war from the Revolutionary War to the last war?

Artillery fire is NOT accurate fire like rifle fire,but it doesn't have to be because when the shell hits and explodes,it sends out shrapnel to shred anyone within range.

The modern  155mm and 175mm arty pieces are a LOT more accurate than the old "smooth bore cannon" balls were,and a hell of a lot more deadly.

You might as well try to claim that bombing isn't effective. Try telling that to someone who has been bombed,or has never been inserted into a target hit by arty fire or bombers to do a "BDA" (Bomb Damage Assessment").

Granted,even the mightly 175's don't do the damage the 500 lb B-52 bombs make,but it is still pretty damn impressive,as well as scary. Sometimes enemy soldiers even die from concussion created by a nearby blast.

The subject was "Indiscriminate" artillery fire. From 20 miles away if you are not real close you miss the enemy. That isn't to say you can't level a town. But the odds of hitting enemy weapons is thin. Ukraine on the other hand is using highly accurate weapons that can take those positions out, if their location is known, due to being highly accurate.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 21, 2022, 11:59:02 pm
Putin complains about barrage of cyberattacks

https://www.navytimes.com/flashpoints/2022/05/20/putin-complains-about-barrage-of-cyberattacks/ (https://www.navytimes.com/flashpoints/2022/05/20/putin-complains-about-barrage-of-cyberattacks/)

Quote
MOSCOW — Russian President Vladimir Putin says his country has faced a barrage of cyberattacks from the West amid the invasion of Ukraine but has successfully fended them off.

Speaking Friday to members of Russia’s Security Council, Putin noted that “the challenges in this area have become even more pressing, serious and extensive.”

He charged that “an outright aggression has been unleashed against Russia, a war has been waged in the information space.”

Putin added that “the cyber-aggression against us, the same as the attack on Russia by sanctions in general, has failed.”

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 22, 2022, 12:06:45 am
If they have failed,what is he bitching about?

Is "Putin" a Russian word that means "Biden" in English?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 22, 2022, 12:12:38 am
Putin's leadership is unraveling as he takes regular breaks for medical treatment and is constantly surrounded by doctors, says British ex-spy

https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-constantly-surrounded-by-doctors-kremlin-in-chaos-former-spy-2022-5 (https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-constantly-surrounded-by-doctors-kremlin-in-chaos-former-spy-2022-5)

Quote
•   Putin has to break from meetings to take medical treatment continually, said one former spy.

•   Christopher Steele told British talk radio station LBC of "increasing disarray in the Kremlin."

•   Steele's comments follow weeks of rumors about the Russian president's health.

President Vladimir Putin's grip on power is fading, and he has to take regular breaks for medical treatment, according to former British spy Christopher Steele.

"Our understanding is that there's increasing disarray in the Kremlin and chaos," Steele said in an interview with British talk radio station LBC on Wednesday.

Steele is a former MI6 operative who worked for many years in Russia, including heading up the spy agency's Russia desk for three years.

He told LBC: "There's no clear political leadership coming from Putin, who is increasingly ill, and in military terms, the structures of command and so on are not functioning as they should."

He did not cite his sources but said he was "fairly confident" of his claims. Putin's top spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, has repeatedly denied any issues.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 22, 2022, 12:33:03 am
Quote
[Putin] charged that “an outright aggression has been unleashed against Russia, a war has been waged in the information space.”

Outright aggression against Russia?  lol

Maybe if Russia withdrew all of its troops from Ukraine, then they could complain about outright aggression.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 22, 2022, 12:39:56 am
"Indiscriminate" artillery isn't very effective at taking out enemy soldiers/weapons. It is essentially a terror weapon against civilians. If Ukraine can acquire and hit their targets, they'll take out the Russian soldiers/weapons in far greater numbers.

What Russia lacks in accuracy, it makes up for in numbers.  And by "indiscriminate", it means Russia is willing to shell anything.

If the current battle is reduced to a war of attrition through artillery, Russia has the advantage because they are destroying Ukrainian infrastructure while not losing Russian infrastructure.  At some point, Ukraine is going to have to take the offensive.  And that will require large units of armor, infantry, and mechanized infantry.  Izyum and Kherson are two objectives that Ukraine needs to capture.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 22, 2022, 12:57:04 am
Putin complains about barrage of cyberattacks

https://www.navytimes.com/flashpoints/2022/05/20/putin-complains-about-barrage-of-cyberattacks/ (https://www.navytimes.com/flashpoints/2022/05/20/putin-complains-about-barrage-of-cyberattacks/)

When this whole thing started there were many threats of Russian cyberattacks. Many here were afraid of the threats. It was all hot air. The Russians bit off more than they can chew...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 22, 2022, 12:58:32 am
What Russia lacks in accuracy, it makes up for in numbers.  And by "indiscriminate", it means Russia is willing to shell anything.

If the current battle is reduced to a war of attrition through artillery, Russia has the advantage because they are destroying Ukrainian infrastructure while not losing Russian infrastructure.  At some point, Ukraine is going to have to take the offensive.  And that will require large units of armor, infantry, and mechanized infantry.  Izyum and Kherson are two objectives that Ukraine needs to capture.

But with accuracy many of those can be taken out over time. It is likely that numerous countries are providing satellite intel providing high accuracy locations of where these Russian weapons are.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 22, 2022, 01:04:09 am
Russians have turned to a devastatingly random tactic in the Donbas - and they're still on the march

Alex Crawford  |  21 May 2022  |  22:03, UK

Carpet bombing is indiscriminate - devastatingly destructive and utterly random.


But if you're an advancing army, it's a deadly and effective tactic, and it's being used mercilessly against the townspeople of Soledar.

The town in eastern Ukraine's Donbas has seen its topography alter dramatically in the last 72 hours as the Russians intensify their assault on the region.

There are now craters and huge pitted holes in the town's parks and high streets, and outside multiple apartment blocks.

Offices, shops, the main administration centre, the sanatorium and residential homes have all been left holed and gutted.

And the whole time we are in the town, there's a constant rumble of war: grad rockets (Russian weapons) going out, grad rockets coming in.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russians-have-turned-to-a-devastatingly-random-tactic-in-the-donbas-and-theyre-still-on-the-march-12618536
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 22, 2022, 01:27:14 am
Russians have turned to a devastatingly random tactic in the Donbas - and they're still on the march

Alex Crawford  |  21 May 2022  |  22:03, UK

Carpet bombing is indiscriminate - devastatingly destructive and utterly random.


But if you're an advancing army, it's a deadly and effective tactic, and it's being used mercilessly against the townspeople of Soledar.

The town in eastern Ukraine's Donbas has seen its topography alter dramatically in the last 72 hours as the Russians intensify their assault on the region.

There are now craters and huge pitted holes in the town's parks and high streets, and outside multiple apartment blocks.

Offices, shops, the main administration centre, the sanatorium and residential homes have all been left holed and gutted.

And the whole time we are in the town, there's a constant rumble of war: grad rockets (Russian weapons) going out, grad rockets coming in.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russians-have-turned-to-a-devastatingly-random-tactic-in-the-donbas-and-theyre-still-on-the-march-12618536

So that's what "liberation" looks like Donbas...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 22, 2022, 02:04:38 am
Good guys - Ukraine
Bad  guys  - Russia

It should become apparent once one checks the veracity of the claims that have been coming from Russia for the past ten years.  Take the "Azov Battalion" narrative, for example.  A militia unit was founded as a response to a 2014  Russian invasion, and was led by a political extremist.  By the end of that year, that leader was expelled, entering the field of politics instead.  The "Azov Battalion" was then incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard, being given the new designation of "Azov Regiment". Under the new authority of the Ukrainian Military, the unit ceased being a political militia.

Yet Russian propaganda has continued for eight years, painting a false narrative on its current status and designation.  That same false Russian propaganda has littered these boards for the past three months.   And no matter how many times that propaganda is exposed and discredited for the lies they are, it keeps getting posted.

Hope that helps.

I think most Ukrainians revere the members of this regiment that held out against overwhelming odds for 3 months.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 22, 2022, 02:13:18 am
Putin ally says the Ukraine war is a REHEARSAL for a bigger conflict between Russia and NATO and a 'learning experience'

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
20 May 2022

A Russian political science professor has claimed the war in Ukraine could simply be a 'rehearsal' for a bigger conflict, allowing Russia's military to test and compare its firepower with that of NATO.

Alexei Fenenko, an associate professor at Moscow State University's school of world politics and a research fellow at the Institute of International Security Studies, made the incredible claim yesterday during a talk show on Kremlin-controlled TV channel Russia One.

'I think the war in Ukraine... is a rehearsal for a possible larger conflict in the future. We are testing our weapons against those of NATO, we will find out how much stronger our weapons are than theirs,' the professor declared.

'It could be a good learning experience for future conflicts,' he added, before talk show host Olga Skabeyeva interjected: 'It's a scary experiment.'

The outlandish statement is the latest example of the Kremlin's attempts to control the narrative surrounding its invasion of Ukraine, in which Putin's forces have suffered huge losses and are coming under counter-attacks along the eastern front in the Kharkiv, Donetsk and Luhansk regions.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10837679/Putin-ally-says-Ukraine-war-REHEARSAL-bigger-conflict-Russia-NATO.html

We should redouble our efforts to train and supply the Ukrainian military. They have been heroic in defense of their country. Also, we should be concerned because Russia's incompetence has made it clear that in a conventional war with NATO Russia would be beaten badly and the last resort for them would be to escalate by using nuclear weapons. IOW, we really need to stop Russia in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 22, 2022, 02:22:32 am
Since little or none of the latest $40 gazillion Congress has gifted Ukraine will go for the stated purpose of helping Ukraine, maybe the money should be managed by Samaritan's Purse, who actually spend money as advertised.
Quote
Franklin Graham
@Franklin_Graham
.@SamaritansPurse has airlifted 101 metric tons of medical supplies to Ukraine since the conflict began. Continue to pray for those our teams and medical staff are helping in Jesus’ Name.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTSSG1sXoAQl0v_?format=jpg&name=large)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTSSG1qWAAMT5hm?format=jpg&name=large)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTSSG1qWAAIue6w?format=jpg&name=large)
9:37 AM · May 21, 2022

Thanks for posting this. It makes me feel great for donating to Samaritan's Purse.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 22, 2022, 02:28:54 am
Putin's leadership is unraveling as he takes regular breaks for medical treatment and is constantly surrounded by doctors, says British ex-spy

https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-constantly-surrounded-by-doctors-kremlin-in-chaos-former-spy-2022-5 (https://www.businessinsider.com/putin-constantly-surrounded-by-doctors-kremlin-in-chaos-former-spy-2022-5)

As much as I would love to hear that this is true, I wouldn't believe anything coming out of Christopher Steeles mouth.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 22, 2022, 02:53:43 am
I think most Ukrainians revere the members of this regiment that held out against overwhelming odds for 3 months.

A national guard regiment.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 22, 2022, 07:27:11 am
@DB

That is HorseHillary squared. Never been under artillery fire,have you?

Or even watched many war movies from any war from the Revolutionary War to the last war?

Artillery fire is NOT accurate fire like rifle fire,but it doesn't have to be because when the shell hits and explodes,it sends out shrapnel to shred anyone within range.

The modern  155mm and 175mm arty pieces are a LOT more accurate than the old "smooth bore cannon" balls were,and a hell of a lot more deadly.

You might as well try to claim that bombing isn't effective. Try telling that to someone who has been bombed,or has never been inserted into a target hit by arty fire or bombers to do a "BDA" (Bomb Damage Assessment").

Granted,even the mightly 175's don't do the damage the 500 lb B-52 bombs make,but it is still pretty damn impressive,as well as scary. Sometimes enemy soldiers even die from concussion created by a nearby blast.
This might be a game changer as far as artillery goes, and the Canadians are giving the Ukrainians some.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFIxzlj2ObY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFIxzlj2ObY)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 22, 2022, 12:26:28 pm
Ian Miles Cheong
@stillgray
Zelensky now says diplomacy with Russia is the only solution. The loss of Mariupol and the the decimation of Azov was a gamechanger. A complete 180 on his previous position. He previously said nothing less than a Ukrainian victory would end the conflict.
7:58 AM · May 22, 2022
Quote
Zelensky: Only diplomacy can end Ukraine war
May 21, 2022
BBC

The war in Ukraine can only be resolved through "diplomacy", President Volodymyr Zelensky has said.

Speaking on national TV, he suggested his country could be victorious against Russia on the battlefield. However, he added that the war could only come to a conclusive halt "at the negotiating table".

Meanwhile, heavy fighting is taking place in and around Severodonetsk, as Russian forces step up efforts to seize the whole of the Luhansk region. The end of fighting in the southern port city of Mariupol has freed up Russian troops for redeployment elsewhere and allowed them to intensify their onslaught in the east. ...
More at BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61535353)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 22, 2022, 12:56:08 pm
Certainly. You have consistently sided with the Communists in this, or perhaps just against Ukraine

I side with neither @Smokin Joe   As I have repeated ad nauseam, I find no good guys in this fight; innocents, yes, good guys, no.  This is an ongoing civil war/border conflict that the Western powers have orchestrated, managed and turned into a battle to the last Ukrainian and we still don't know why.  But, what we do know is the very last thing this sh*tshow is about is "freedom".

Quote
frequently citing the false dichotomy that because the Ukrainians are not Communist, and in fact a small minority of the Ukrainian army (one unit) have claimed or been claimed to be Nazis, that all are Nazis.

I never said or implied this, Joe.  I have, however, citied the nazi history of the Azov Battalion and how the world has known this for decades, including our own Congress.  I have also tried to discuss how Kiev unleased this battalion on the Eastern separatist region to terrorize, maim, murder and destroy the region for the past eight years.

One can certainly defend the Azov Battalion's involvement as an alliance similar to the Western Alliance with the Soviets in WWII.  But, to deny the history of the battalion and its role in the on-going attacks in the Dunbas region for eight years is rewritiing history  ---- and to do this with such vehemence is inexplicable.

Quote
Another common theme is that because the career Russian puppets before Zelenskyy were corrupt and in bed with the Biden Family, that somehow means a person who was rich when he took office without having previously held any political position must be corrupt, too.(Which would make as much sense as saying because Obama was corrupt, Trump (also a rich guy and first time office holder) must be corrupt, too.)

Ukraine's Burisma, Hunter Biden; Ukraine's biolabs, Hunter Biden.  $1 billion dollars to change the prosecutor investigating Burmisa, Joe Biden.

10% to the big guy. 

On December 10, 2019, Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee announced they would levy two articles of impeachment, designated H. Res. 755: (1) abuse of power, and (2) obstruction of Congress, in its investigation of the President's conduct regarding Ukraine.

Ukraine was the vehicle driven to remove a sitting US President from office ----- after three years investigating Russia! Russia! Russia! hit the ground like a safe falling from a 20 story building.   And here we are two short years later, with the same big guy now sitting at the helm, shoulder deep in a never-ending border conflict five thousand miles away writing blank checks to Ukraine, calling for the assassination of the Russian leader and helping the EU expand and fundmentally change NATO from a defensive alliance to an offensive one ---- with the US paying the lion's share of the bill.

And you fail to see even the possibiity of a connection between Russia/Ukrainegte and our current actions.  Words fail me, Joe. 

Quote
The bottom line is that we have no boots on the ground in Ukraine, provide no air cover, and that the Ukrainians are fighting for their right to self-determination.... 

The bottom line is this is not our fight.   We owe Ukraine no weapons, no training, no money.  This is for the European Union to handle and solve to its satisfaction.

Two hundred and forty-six years ago we declared our independence from Europe.  Hopefully, sooner rather than later,  we'll mean it.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 22, 2022, 02:17:43 pm
Suspicious fire breaks out at Russian aerospace institute that develops fighter jets and rockets in latest blaze to hit the country amid fears of Ukrainian saboteur campaign

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
21 May 2022

Firefighters were today battling a blaze at a major Russian aerospace institute.

The blaze with thick black smoke was at the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute in Zhukovsky, a facility involved in research on Russian warplanes.

The inferno seen on videos is the latest at strategic Russian sites during the war with Ukraine with suspicions that some may be sabotage.

The fire began at a power substation supplying the institute, 43 miles southeast of Moscow, which has been crucial to the development of aircraft such as the Su-27, MiG-29, and MiG-31 fighters as well as various rockets.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10839953/Suspicious-fire-breaks-Russian-aerospace-institute-develops-fighter-jets-rockets.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 22, 2022, 04:32:14 pm
'Putin will be gone by 2023': Ex MI6 chief Sir Richard Dearlove says the Russian president will be sent to a sanatorium to receive medical treatment amid claims he is losing his grip on power due to his ailing health

By MAILONLINE REPORTER
22 May 2022

Warmongering Russian president Vladimir Putin will be shipped off to a sanatorium by the end of the year, a former MI6 chief predicts. With persistent rumors of serious ill health for the Russian strongman, one method of 'moving things on' without need for a violent coup would be to place him in a long term hospital for the incurably unwell, suggested Richard Dearlove.

The various Russian systems of governance over the centuries have always been autocratic and have never been designed with transitions of power in mind. But now, with Russia facing military humiliation and economic catastrophe, and led by a leader who is rumored to be afflicted with a variety of life-threatening diseases, thoughts are turning inwardly in the Kremlin as to how to replace the man in power.

These are the thoughts of Dearlove, who was speaking on the One Decision podcast which he co-hosts. 'I think he'll be gone by 2023 - but probably into the sanatorium, from which he will not emerge as the leader of Russia.' 'I'm not saying he won't emerge from the sanatorium, but he won't emerge as the leader of Russia any longer. 'That's a way to sort of move things on without a coup,' he concluded. Pictured: File photo of a hospital.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/galleries/article-10842533/Ex-MI6-chief-says-Putin-sent-sanatorium.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 22, 2022, 04:33:57 pm
Fifty experts from Syrian military who specialise in deadly barrel bombs that destroy anything within 800ft radius are drafted in to aid Russian forces in Ukraine invasion

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
22 May 2022

Vladimir Putin has drafted in feared Syrian barrel bomb specialists to aid in Russia's faltering invasion of Ukraine, according to reports.

The bombs have been used to devastating effect in the 10-year Syrian civil war, with evidence suggesting that Bashar al-Assad's forces using them to kill thousands of civilians and destroy vast swathes of towns and cities.

According to The Guardian, intelligence officers have said more than 50 experts in the creation and deployment of crude explosives travelled to Russia weeks ago to work along-side officials in Moscow's armies.

It is understood that the arrival of the specialists was one of the main reasons behind both the United States and European countries warning that chemical weapons could be used in the conflict in Ukraine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10842433/Ukraine-war-Syrian-barrel-bomb-experts-drafted-help-Putins-forces.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 22, 2022, 06:07:10 pm
(https://img.ifunny.co/images/577e343be644dde663d1fa27d752da995349e2f84d581de6a9c7e74942531af5_1.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 22, 2022, 08:31:07 pm
I side with neither @Smokin Joe

Your posts do.


One can certainly defend the Azov Battalion's involvement as an alliance similar to the Western Alliance with the Soviets in WWII.  But, to deny the history of the battalion and its role in the on-going attacks in the Dunbas region for eight years is rewritiing history  ---- and to do this with such vehemence is inexplicable.

The Azov Battalion hasn't existed since Jan 2015.


Ukraine's Burisma, Hunter Biden; Ukraine's biolabs, Hunter Biden.  $1 billion dollars to change the prosecutor investigating Burmisa, Joe Biden.

10% to the big guy. 

On December 10, 2019, Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee announced they would levy two articles of impeachment, designated H. Res. 755: (1) abuse of power, and (2) obstruction of Congress, in its investigation of the President's conduct regarding Ukraine.

Ukraine was the vehicle driven to remove a sitting US President from office ----- after three years investigating Russia! Russia! Russia! hit the ground like a safe falling from a 20 story building.   And here we are two short years later, with the same big guy now sitting at the helm, shoulder deep in a never-ending border conflict five thousand miles away writing blank checks to Ukraine, calling for the assassination of the Russian leader and helping the EU expand and fundmentally change NATO from a defensive alliance to an offensive one ---- with the US paying the lion's share of the bill.

And you fail to see even the possibiity of a connection between Russia/Ukrainegte and our current actions.  Words fail me, Joe.

What does Poroshenko's corruption have to do with the current Ukraine administration?


The bottom line is this is not our fight.   We owe Ukraine no weapons, no training, no money.  This is for the European Union to handle and solve to its satisfaction.

Speaking of the European Union. I do seem to recall back in 2014 where  the EU invited Ukraine to apply for membership.  And I also distinctly remember Russia interfering with that process by bribing Ukrainian President (and Soviet puppet) Viktor Yushchenko to sabotage that process.  The Soviet puppet leader was promptly impeached and driven from office for 'poisoning' Ukraine's chance for EU membership.  And it was the removal of the puppet Yuschenko from office that prompted Russia's invasion.

But then you knew all of that already.  Yet you have already chosen a side.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 22, 2022, 08:41:58 pm
One Russian's anti-war protest on the side of his shopping centre

Steve Rosenberg, Russko-Vysotskoye  |  2 days ago

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/9E5E/production/_124824504_screenshot2022-05-19at21.57.02.png)

If you drive eight hours north of Moscow, you'll come to a tiny little town called Russko-Vysotskoye.


There is not a great deal to see here, apart from the chicken farm and the church that was reduced to rubble in World War Two.

But there is one thing in this town that is particularly eye-catching: the local shopping centre.

Dmitry Skurikhin owns the building - and you should see what he's done to the front of it.

In giant letters he's painted "Peace to Ukraine, Freedom to Russia!" In bright-red paint he's listed the names of Ukrainian towns that have been attacked by the Russian army.

Mariupol, Bucha, Kherson, Chernihiv, and many more.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/503E/production/_124824502_screenshot2022-05-19at21.45.07.png)

"I thought this would be a good way of getting information out," Dmitry tells me.

"Because for the first few weeks of the war our people didn't know what was happening. They thought that some kind of special operation was being conducted to remove drug addicts from the Ukrainian government. They didn't know that Russia was shelling Ukrainian towns."  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61515365
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 22, 2022, 09:47:05 pm
YouTube removes more than 9,000 channels relating to Ukraine war

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals)

Exclusive: Platform takes ‘unprecedented action’ to address content guideline violations since invasion
Quote

YouTube has taken down more than 70,000 videos and 9,000 channels related to the war in Ukraine for violating content guidelines, including removal of videos that referred to the invasion as a “liberation mission”.

The platform is hugely popular in Russia, where, unlike some of its US peers, it has not been shut down despite hosting content from opposition figures such as Alexei Navalny. YouTube has also been able to operate in Russia despite cracking down on pro-Kremlin content that has broken guidelines including its major violent events policy, which prohibits denying or trivialising the invasion.

Since the conflict began in February, YouTube has taken down channels including that of the pro-Kremlin journalist Vladimir Solovyov. Channels associated with Russia’s Ministries of Defence and Foreign Affairs have also been temporarily suspended from uploading videos in recent months for describing the war as a “liberation mission”.

YouTube’s chief product officer, Neal Mohan, said: “We have a major violent events policy and that applies to things like denial of major violent events: everything from the Holocaust to Sandy Hook. And of course, what’s happening in Ukraine is a major violent event. And so we’ve used that policy to take unprecedented action.”

In an interview with the Guardian, Mohan added that YouTube’s news content on the conflict had received more than 40m views in Ukraine alone.

“The first and probably most paramount responsibility is making sure that people who are looking for information about this event can get accurate, high-quality, credible information on YouTube,” he said. “The consumption of authoritative channels on our platform has grown significantly, of course in Ukraine, but also in countries surrounding Ukraine, Poland, and also within Russia itself.”

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 22, 2022, 10:11:46 pm
OSINT Aggregator
@AggregateOsint
#Italy has circulated a 4-point peace plan to the #UnitedNations for the #UkraineRussiaWar - 1. Immediate ceasefire 2. Permanent #Ukrainian neutrality 3. De facto independence for #Crimea and #Donbas 4. Withdrawal of 🇷🇺 troops and end to 🇷🇺 sanctions.
Wall St. Journal: Italy Circulates 4-Point Peace Plan (https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-20/card/italy-circulates-4-point-peace-plan-h2o9EfwULf6P1mwDbjdn?mod=article_inline)
2:47 PM · May 22, 2022
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 22, 2022, 10:43:06 pm
OSINT Aggregator
@AggregateOsint
#Italy has circulated a 4-point peace plan to the #UnitedNations for the #UkraineRussiaWar - 1. Immediate ceasefire 2. Permanent #Ukrainian neutrality 3. De facto independence for #Crimea and #Donbas 4. Withdrawal of 🇷🇺 troops and end to 🇷🇺 sanctions.
Wall St. Journal: Italy Circulates 4-Point Peace Plan (https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-20/card/italy-circulates-4-point-peace-plan-h2o9EfwULf6P1mwDbjdn?mod=article_inline)
2:47 PM · May 22, 2022

No.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 22, 2022, 10:54:27 pm
Too bad they thought to involve the worthless corrupt UN in this process.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 22, 2022, 11:05:59 pm
Too bad they thought to involve the worthless corrupt UN in this process.

It's rotten on several levels.  It allows Putin to cement the conquests he has done so far, namely Crimea and Dunbar.  Caving on "some territory" is a guarantee there will be reasons (as yet unknown) that will crop up later to justify taking more.

It prohibits Ukraine from entering alliances as it sees fit.  They can't even write a treaty without the UN's say so.

And it allows the evil empire UN to ensure their boot remains on Ukraine's neck forever.

So, it's a firm "No!"  Hard pass.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 22, 2022, 11:07:43 pm
It's rotten on several levels.  It allows Putin to cement the conquests he has done so far, namely Crimea and Dunbar.  Caving on "some territory" is a guarantee there will be reasons (as yet unknown) that will crop up later to justify taking more.

It prohibits Ukraine from entering alliances as it sees fit.  They can't even write a treaty without the UN's say so.

And it allows the evil empire UN to ensure their boot remains on Ukraine's neck forever.

So, it's a firm "No!"  Hard pass.

My vote is send more weapons.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 22, 2022, 11:09:06 pm
OSINT Aggregator
@AggregateOsint
#Italy has circulated a 4-point peace plan to the #UnitedNations for the #UkraineRussiaWar - 1. Immediate ceasefire 2. Permanent #Ukrainian neutrality 3. De facto independence for #Crimea and #Donbas 4. Withdrawal of 🇷🇺 troops and end to 🇷🇺 sanctions.
Wall St. Journal: Italy Circulates 4-Point Peace Plan (https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-20/card/italy-circulates-4-point-peace-plan-h2o9EfwULf6P1mwDbjdn?mod=article_inline)
2:47 PM · May 22, 2022

Hell no!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 22, 2022, 11:40:40 pm
Ukraine LIVE: Ukraine wipe out Russian weapons after 'useful idiot' reveals EXACT location

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1614065/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-donbas-update (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1614065/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-donbas-update)

A RUSSIAN journalist unwittingly helped Ukrainian forces to locate and destroy Russian heavy artillery.

Quote
Ukraine forces succeeded for the first time in taking out a Russian 2S4 Tyulpan artillery system near Rubizhne in the Luhansk region. The 2S4 Tyulpan is a powerful weapon and can fire massive 240 mm caliber 221-pound high explosive projectiles for up to 260 miles. Ukrainian soldiers were able to locate the deadly weapon after watching a TV broadcast from the frontline by a Russian journalist.

Viktor Kovalenko, a Ukrainian army veteran, wrote on his Twitter page: "Ukrainian military was able to destroy 2S4 Tyulpan immediately after watching the TV report by the Russian propagandist Alex Koz (useful idiot).

"He proudly reported about this deadly mortar on Russian TV and disclosed the exact location."

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 22, 2022, 11:45:10 pm
Ukraine LIVE: Ukraine wipe out Russian weapons after 'useful idiot' reveals EXACT location

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1614065/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-donbas-update (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1614065/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-donbas-update)

A RUSSIAN journalist unwittingly helped Ukrainian forces to locate and destroy Russian heavy artillery.

Sweet.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 22, 2022, 11:46:55 pm
Centuries of Russian oppression have forged Ukraine’s remarkable resilience

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/centuries-of-russian-oppression-have-forged-ukraines-remarkable-resilience/ (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/centuries-of-russian-oppression-have-forged-ukraines-remarkable-resilience/)

Quote
In the same way that an individual can have mental health conditions, a society can be impacted by emotional and psychological stressors that shape it.

Some Ukrainian psychological practitioners and social scientists have previously endorsed the idea that Ukraine suffers from chronic Post-Traumatic Stress (PTS) which has historically accumulated through events such as the country’s experience under Russian imperialism, the Holodomor, World War II, and the systemic suppression of national and human rights during the Soviet era.

It follows that Ukraine’s national PTS has been severely exacerbated by the events of the past eight years. This includes the killing of protesters during the Euromaidan Revolution, the annexation of Crimea, the war in the Donbas and, of course, the Russian Federation’s full-scale invasion since February 2022. This societal trauma is in addition to the acute PTS directly acquired through personal exposure to the war by more than half a million Ukrainian soldiers, thousands of social services personnel, and countless Ukrainian citizens.

While it may seem counterintuitive, Ukraine’s PTS could actually play a role in the country’s defense and future post-war recovery. This is because PTS tends to “play out” in different ways.

Critically, PTS isn’t static. Those who suffer from PTS often adapt to or compensate for their condition in variable situations. Let’s scale up from the individual level to the national level in how PTS “plays out”, particularly through cognition symptoms (how we think) and arousal symptoms (how we behave and react).

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 22, 2022, 11:56:09 pm
'A Long Journey': Volunteers From Belarus Fight for Ukraine

https://www.voanews.com/a/6584603.html (https://www.voanews.com/a/6584603.html)

Quote
Warsaw — One is a restaurateur who fled Belarus when he learned he was about to be arrested for criticizing President Alexander Lukashenko. Another was given the choice of either denouncing fellow opposition activists or being jailed. And one is certain his brother was killed by the country's security forces.

What united them is their determination to resist Lukashenko by fighting against Russian forces in Ukraine.

Belarusians are among those who have answered a call by Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy for foreign fighters to go to Ukraine and join the International Legion for the Territorial Defense of Ukraine, given the high stakes in a conflict which many see as a battle pitting dictatorship against freedom.

For the Belarusians, who consider Ukrainians a brethren nation, the stakes feel especially high.

Russian troops used Belarusian territory to invade Ukraine early in the war, and Lukashenko has publicly stood by longtime ally, Russian President Vladimir Putin, describing him as his "big brother." Russia, for its part, has pumped billions of dollars into shoring up Lukashenko's Soviet-style, state-controlled economy with cheap energy and loans.

Weakening Putin, the Belarusian volunteers believe, would also weaken Lukashenko, who has held power since 1994, and create an opening to topple his oppressive government and bring democratic change to the nation of nearly 10 million.

For many of the Belarusians, their base is Poland, a country on NATO's eastern flank that borders Belarus and Ukraine, and which has become a haven for pro-democracy Belarusian dissidents before becoming one for war refugees from Ukraine.

Some of the volunteer fighters are already in Poland, and some only pass through briefly on their way to Ukraine.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 23, 2022, 12:05:48 am
Satellite image of Mariupol leads to chilling conclusion

https://www.9news.com.au/world/russia-ukraine-update-satellite-images-show-mass-graves-mariupol/4a62f860-f912-4548-9c25-502b4f1d20ef (https://www.9news.com.au/world/russia-ukraine-update-satellite-images-show-mass-graves-mariupol/4a62f860-f912-4548-9c25-502b4f1d20ef)

(https://cf-images.ap-southeast-2.prod.boltdns.net/v1/static/664969388001/844c5d7e-5683-4b1a-aecd-2ec5505e24db/a57c8461-ae4c-48a9-b104-897c9978b4e1/640x360/match/image.jpg)

Quote
New satellite imagery taken over the Ukrainian city of Mariupol has shown Russian forces digging mass graves, an expert said.

Russia has claimed full control of the strategic port city after Ukrainian defenders at the Azovstal steel plant surrendered after weeks of siege.

US satellite company Planet Labs said its latest imagery has revealed three mass graves on the outskirts of Mariupol.

Russian troops have been accused of committing atrocities in Ukraine including the mass killing of civilians.

US military expert Melissa Hanham, of Stanford University, said the apparent graves shown in imagery were capable of holding thousands of bodies.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 12:12:35 am

Viktor Kovalenko, a Ukrainian army veteran, wrote on his Twitter page: "Ukrainian military was able to destroy 2S4 Tyulpan immediately after watching the TV report by the Russian propagandist Alex Koz (useful idiot).
 

@Elderberry

Quote
Viktor Kovalenko

That stupid SOB should be severely beaten every time he shows his stupid face. Ukraine HAD a tactical advantage that was obviously unknown by the Russians,and he blew it by broadcasting it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 23, 2022, 12:19:12 am
Anti-war chant at concert in St. Petersburg.

http://www.youtube.com/shorts/kyjN3mdCLxo
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 23, 2022, 12:30:06 am
Massive Fire Breaks Out at Russian Aerospace Institute; Ukraine's Involvement Suspected

Prabhat Ranjan Mishra  |  May 22, 2022 13:16 +08


A massive fire broke out at Russia's aerospace institute in Zhukovsky, which develops fighter aircraft. Experts speculate Ukraine's involvement in the incident. The Aerohydrodynamic Institute, which is 43 miles away from Moscow, plays a key role in the development of rockets and jets.

A former CIA operative suggests that the incident is the result of Kyiv's sabotage campaign inside Russia.

(https://data.ibtimes.sg/en/full/58391/fire-at-russiascentral-aerohydrodynamic-institute-in-zhukovsky.jpg)

Plumes of black thick smoke were seen at the Central Aerohydrodynamic Institute in Zhukovsky, which played a crucial role in the development of the Su-27, MiG-29, and MiG-31 fighters as well as various rockets.

https://www.ibtimes.sg/massive-fire-breaks-out-russian-aerospace-institute-ukraines-involvement-suspected-watch-64737
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 01:47:12 am
Ukrainian involvement is not impossible,but seems highly unlikely given the Soviet "mindset" that still exists in the Russian military.

I suspect anti-war sabotage from an employee or two that may have lost a child or other relative in the invasion of Ukraine. Russia is just too paranoid for it to be likely foreign saboteurs could infiltrate  an aerospace institute.

Not to mention damn near impossible to get away.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 23, 2022, 02:32:22 am
Ukraine LIVE: Ukraine wipe out Russian weapons after 'useful idiot' reveals EXACT location

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1614065/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-donbas-update (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1614065/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-volodymyr-zelensky-russia-donbas-update)

A RUSSIAN journalist unwittingly helped Ukrainian forces to locate and destroy Russian heavy artillery.

It's great that they destroyed the heavy artillery, but I wish they didn't tell how they got the location. If Russian journalists are as dumb as American journalists he would probably have done it again.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 23, 2022, 02:38:40 am
PUTIN humiliating to see Ukraine using E-BIKES bicycles to crush Russian attacking tank convoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrsMVGqKKmM

The response to Russia's invasion by Ukraine has been eye opening in how they have countered the heavy weapons of Russia. I sure hope our military is taking note.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 09:10:54 am
PUTIN humiliating to see Ukraine using E-BIKES bicycles to crush Russian attacking tank convoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrsMVGqKKmM

The response to Russia's invasion by Ukraine has been eye opening in how they have countered the heavy weapons of Russia. I sure hope our military is taking note.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 23, 2022, 09:31:02 am
@Elderberry

That stupid SOB should be severely beaten every time he shows his stupid face. Ukraine HAD a tactical advantage that was obviously unknown by the Russians,and he blew it by broadcasting it.
Right. The last thing that Russians need is constructive criticism for their war effort, and doubtless the reporter will be punished for giving the location away, when the reporter might have done the same thing in the future, accidentally to Ukraine's benefit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 23, 2022, 09:36:03 am
PUTIN humiliating to see Ukraine using E-BIKES bicycles to crush Russian attacking tank convoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrsMVGqKKmM

The response to Russia's invasion by Ukraine has been eye opening in how they have countered the heavy weapons of Russia. I sure hope our military is taking note.
The essences of maneuver warfare are mobility and firepower. These vehicles add stealth as well.

Good for this application, and relatively inexpensive.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 23, 2022, 10:27:29 am
Is the EU getting ready to move on?

Quote
Zelenskyy: Macron asked Ukraine to make concessions to help Putin save face
Politico, May 13, 2022

French President Emmanuel Macron asked Ukraine to make concessions on its sovereignty to help Russian leader Vladimir Putin save face, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said.

https://www.politico.eu/article/zelenskyy-macron-asked-ukraine-concession-help-putin-save-face/

Quote
Zelensky: Only diplomacy can end Ukraine War
May 21, 2022
BBC

The war in Ukraine can only be resolved through "diplomacy", President Volodymyr Zelensky has said.

Speaking on national TV, he suggested his country could be victorious against Russia on the battlefield. However, he added that the war could only come to a conclusive halt "at the negotiating table".

Meanwhile, heavy fighting is taking place in and around Severodonetsk, as Russian forces step up efforts to seize the whole of the Luhansk region.

The end of fighting in the southern port city of Mariupol has freed up Russian troops for redeployment elsewhere and allowed them to intensify their onslaught in the east. ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61535353

Quote
OSINT Aggregator
@AggregateOsint

#Italy has circulated a 4-point peace plan to the #UnitedNations for the #UkraineRussiaWar - 1. Immediate ceasefire 2. Permanent #Ukrainian neutrality 3. De facto independence for #Crimea and #Donbas 4. Withdrawal of 🇷🇺 troops and end to 🇷🇺 sanctions.

Wall St. Journal: Italy Circulates 4-Point Peace Plan: 
https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-20/card/italy-circulates-4-point-peace-plan-h2o9EfwULf6P1mwDbjdn?mod=article_inline

2:47 PM · May 22, 2022

Quote
France's European Minister: A Ukraine EU Bid Would Take At Least 15-20 Years
May 23, 2022

France’s European affairs minister said that any bid for Ukraine to join the European Union would take at least 15 to 20 years to complete, putting a damper on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy's hopes of gaining a quick entry into the bloc.

"We have to be honest. If you say Ukraine is going to join the EU in six months, or a year or two, you're lying," Clement Beaune told France’s Radio J on May 22. "It's probably in 15 or 20 years -- it takes a long time."

"I don't want to offer Ukrainians any illusions or lies," he added.

The comments came after French President Emmanuel Macron suggested that Ukraine be invited to join some form of “associated” political community with the EU.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-france-european-union-bid/31862357.html   

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 11:06:43 am
Nephew of Sergei Shoigu's right-hand man in Russian defence ministry is killed by Ukrainian forces: Paratrooper commander becomes first relative of a senior Putin official to die during invasion

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
23 May 2022

The nephew of Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu's right-hand man has been killed by Ukrainian forces in the war.

Captain Adam Khamkhoyev, 30, a paratrooper commander, was killed on Friday night in Ukraine and later buried in the southern Russian province of Ingushetia.

His uncle Colonel-General Yunus-Bek Yevkurov, 58, Russia's hardline deputy defence minister under Shoigu, attended the funeral in plain clothes.

Khamkhoyev's death marks the first time a relative of a senior Putin official has died during Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10844451/Nephew-Sergei-Shoigus-right-hand-man-Russian-defence-ministry-killed-Ukrainian-forces.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 11:08:21 am
Baby-faced Russian tank commander, 21, is sentenced to LIFE for killing 62-year-old civilian in Ukraine invasion's first war crime trial

By RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE
23 May 2022

A baby-faced Russian tank commander has today been sentenced to life in prison for murdering an unarmed civilian in the first war crimes trial arising from Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Vadim Shishimarin, 21, had pleaded guilty to killing 62-year-old Oleksandr Shelipov in the opening days of the war after being ordered to shoot him. 

Judge Serhiy Agafonov said Shishimarin, carrying out a 'criminal order' by a soldier of higher rank, had fired several shots at the victim's head from an automatic weapon.

Shishimarin, wearing a blue and grey hooded sweatshirt, watched proceedings silently from a reinforced glass box in the courtroom and showed no emotion as the verdict was read out.

The Russian tank commander was sentenced to life in prison after pleading guilty to charges of war crimes and murder for killing Oleksandr, who was shot in the northeastern village of Chupakhivka, Sumy region, on February 28 while pushing his bicycle along the road.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10845057/Russian-tank-commander-sentenced-LIFE-killing-civilian-Ukraines-war-crime-trial.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 11:10:01 am
Russia 'has lost as many men in its three-month Ukrainian invasion as it did during entire NINE-YEAR war in Afghanistan due to poor tactics and leadership'

By TOM BROWN FOR MAILONLINE
23 May 2022

Russian losses in Ukraine over the first three months are likely to have already surpassed those of the Soviet-Afghan war which lasted nine years, the UK Ministry of Defence has said.

The Soviet Union's losses are estimated to be around 15,000 killed in the Afghan war, with an additional 35,478 wounded and 311 missing.

'The Russian public has, in the past, proven sensitive to casualties suffered during wars of choice,' said the UK government ministry, which did not name the exact figure.

'As casualties suffered in Ukraine continue to rise they will become more apparent, and public dissatisfaction with the war and a willingness to voice it may grow.'

Poor tactics, limited air cover, a lack of flexibility, and a command approach reinforcing failure and repeating mistakes has led to the high casualty rate, said the ministry.

The UK's Secretary of State for Defence Ben Wallace previously estimated that approximately a quarter of Russia's battalion tactical groups were 'not combat effective.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10844747/Russia-lost-men-Ukraine-invasion-did-entire-NINE-YEAR-war-Afghanistan.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 11:12:17 am
Putin's TV appearances were 'staged' last week to mask his absence from duties amid growing rumours of health problems - while a hardline ally 'holds the Kremlin reins', opposition source claims

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS MATTHEWS FOR MAILONLINE
22 May 2022

Public appearances by Vladimir Putin were 'staged' last week to mask an absence from duties, raising new speculation about his health, an opposition source claimed.

Old footage was used in video appearances for several meetings, it was alleged.

Trusted aide Nikolai Patrushev - a former FSB chief - is now in virtual control of the Kremlin, and is the recipient of top level briefings that would normally go direct to Putin, claimed General SVR Telegram channel.

The same outlet has previously asserted that Putin has been ordered by doctors to undergo surgery related to a cancer condition, and had predicted his temporary disappearance despite the war in Ukraine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10842537/Putins-TV-appearances-staged-week-mask-absence-duties.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 23, 2022, 11:16:05 am
Love the spirit animal    :laugh:

Pedro L. Gonzalez
@emeriticus

Kinzinger has to LARP this hard because his life blows and he doesn't have the courage to actually go to Ukraine and fight. We are basically watching a man whose spirit animal is Meghan McCain live out a midlife crisis on the internet.

Quote
Adam Kinzinger
@AdamKinzinger
 · May 21

Coincidently, I’m celebrating the 27,000 dead Russian soldiers and a bakers dozen dead GENERALS!  How embarrassing for you!!
#SlavaUkraine twitter.com/Dpol_un/status…

1:56 AM · May 23, 2022·Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 23, 2022, 12:14:32 pm
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald

I really wish people understood: it's only in the US and parts of Europe where USG propaganda -- about how we fight wars to benevolently save people and democracies  -- works. Everywhere else, it provokes a laughing fit, especially in countries that have seen US power first-hand.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTYaNuUXsAA44O1?format=jpg&name=small)

2:10 PM · May 22, 2022   Twitter Web App





Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 23, 2022, 12:15:47 pm
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald

The US, like every major power, doesn't do wars to help people. That's the propagandistic packaging for domestic pacifying.

I never understood how the USG can get Americans to believe it fights for democracy while propping up the Saudis, Egyptian generals, and supporting coups.

2:15 PM · May 22, 2022    Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 12:21:43 pm
Baby-faced Russian tank commander, 21, is sentenced to LIFE for killing 62-year-old civilian in Ukraine invasion's first war crime trial

By RACHAEL BUNYAN FOR MAILONLINE
23 May 2022

A baby-faced Russian tank commander has today been sentenced to life in prison for murdering an unarmed civilian in the first war crimes trial arising from Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Vadim Shishimarin, 21, had pleaded guilty to killing 62-year-old Oleksandr Shelipov in the opening days of the war after being ordered to shoot him. 

Judge Serhiy Agafonov said Shishimarin, carrying out a 'criminal order' by a soldier of higher rank, had fired several shots at the victim's head from an automatic weapon.

Shishimarin, wearing a blue and grey hooded sweatshirt, watched proceedings silently from a reinforced glass box in the courtroom and showed no emotion as the verdict was read out.

The Russian tank commander was sentenced to life in prison after pleading guilty to charges of war crimes and murder for killing Oleksandr, who was shot in the northeastern village of Chupakhivka, Sumy region, on February 28 while pushing his bicycle along the road.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10845057/Russian-tank-commander-sentenced-LIFE-killing-civilian-Ukraines-war-crime-trial.html

That is substantially better treatment than Ukraine civilians are suffering at the hands of the Russians - in fact, better treatment than Russian soldiers are suffering at the hands of their fellow Russians.

The only real nazis in Ukraine are the Russians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 23, 2022, 01:00:25 pm
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald

I never understood how the USG can get Americans to believe it fights for democracy while propping up the Saudis, Egyptian generals, and supporting coups.

2:15 PM · May 22, 2022    Twitter Web App

I never understand how Russian propagandists can crank out this drivel while Russian forces continue the wholesale slaughter of the Ukrainian people.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 23, 2022, 01:25:13 pm
It's not Russian propaganda to ask why the US supports corrupt and oppressive regimes - and, no, I'm not talking about Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 23, 2022, 01:36:10 pm
Joe is losing - or has lost - the NYT.
Quote
The New York Times
@nytimes
May 19
In Opinion
Without clarity on its aims and strategy for the war in Ukraine, the White House not only risks losing Americans’ support but also jeopardizes long-term peace and security on the European continent, writes the editorial board.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1527407107682750468/p5g_WWvI?format=jpg&name=small)
9:50 PM · May 19, 2022
Link to opinion piece (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/opinion/america-ukraine-war-support.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 23, 2022, 02:03:35 pm
Russia 'has lost as many men in its three-month Ukrainian invasion as it did during entire NINE-YEAR war in Afghanistan due to poor tactics and leadership'

    Poor tactics, limited air cover, a lack of flexibility, and commanders repeating mistakes has led to high Russian casualties, said the UK Defence Ministry
    Public dissatisfaction with the war within Russia is likely to increase, it added
    Experts say the Russian offensive could grind to a halt around the middle of June

By Tom Brown For Mailonline

Published: 05:27 EDT, 23 May 2022 | Updated: 06:11 EDT, 23 May 2022

Russian losses in Ukraine over the first three months are likely to have already surpassed those of the Soviet-Afghan war which lasted nine years, the UK Ministry of Defence has said.

The Soviet Union's losses are estimated to be around 15,000 killed in the Afghan war, with an additional 35,478 wounded and 311 missing.

'The Russian public has, in the past, proven sensitive to casualties suffered during wars of choice,' said the UK government ministry, which did not name the exact figure.

more
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10844747/Russia-lost-men-Ukraine-invasion-did-entire-NINE-YEAR-war-Afghanistan.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 02:27:50 pm

French President Emmanuel Macron asked Ukraine to make concessions on its sovereignty to help Russian leader Vladimir Putin save face, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said.

@Right_in_Virginia   Some things never change. The French being "surrender monkeys" is one of them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 02:29:47 pm
Thousands chant 'f*** the war' at a concert in St Petersburg as Putin faces backlash over Ukrainian invasion

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
23 May 2022

This is the extraordinary moment concert-goers in Russia's second-largest city chanted 'f** the war' as opposition to Putin's invasion of Ukraine grows.

Footage shows hundreds of people in a packed venue in St Petersburg repeatedly denouncing the war in Ukraine in a brazen show of defiance to Putin.

It is unclear exactly when the footage was filmed, but it was posted online at the weekend by a member of opposition politician Alexei Navalny's party.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10844695/Ukraine-Thousands-chant-f-war-concert-Russia.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 02:36:21 pm
Russia 'has lost as many men in its three-month Ukrainian invasion as it did during entire NINE-YEAR war in Afghanistan due to poor tactics and leadership'

By TOM BROWN FOR MAILONLINE
23 May 2022

Russian losses in Ukraine over the first three months are likely to have already surpassed those of the Soviet-Afghan war which lasted nine years, the UK Ministry of Defence has said.

The Soviet Union's losses are estimated to be around 15,000 killed in the Afghan war, with an additional 35,478 wounded and 311 missing.

'The Russian public has, in the past, proven sensitive to casualties suffered during wars of choice,' said the UK government ministry, which did not name the exact figure.

'As casualties suffered in Ukraine continue to rise they will become more apparent, and public dissatisfaction with the war and a willingness to voice it may grow.'

Poor tactics, limited air cover, a lack of flexibility, and a command approach reinforcing failure and repeating mistakes has led to the high casualty rate, said the ministry.

The UK's Secretary of State for Defence Ben Wallace previously estimated that approximately a quarter of Russia's battalion tactical groups were 'not combat effective.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10844747/Russia-lost-men-Ukraine-invasion-did-entire-NINE-YEAR-war-Afghanistan.html

@Kamaji

Ok,who here thinks these causality numbers are being reported by the Russian press?

Buehler?

Anyone?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 02:38:19 pm
@Kamaji

Ok,who here thinks these causality numbers are being reported by the Russian press?

Buehler?

Anyone?


Most likely nobody in the Russian press; however, they are probably beginning to circulate in the old fashioned way, like the old samizdat.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 02:46:05 pm
It's not Russian propaganda to ask why the US supports corrupt and oppressive regimes - and, no, I'm not talking about Ukraine.

@mountaineer

The answer to that is sometimes it is in America's best interest to support one corrupt,repressive regime over another because that ONE regime,unlike the OTHER regime,is not anti-American and doesn't support other regimes that are anti-American?

This is reality,not kissy-face romance.

Or would you maybe prefer we purposely supported regimes that are a threat to us?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 02:48:19 pm

Most likely nobody in the Russian press; however, they are probably beginning to circulate in the old fashioned way, like the old samizdat.

@Kamaji

You can count on it. One of the most common Soviet-era jokes was "The government pretends to report the news,and we pretend to believe it."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on May 23, 2022, 02:58:30 pm
America supported Sadam Hussein before we opposed him.

America supported Osama bin Laden before he opposed us.

America supported Stalin in WWII before opposing him in the Cold War.

"Friend", "enemy", "ally", and "competitor" are all momentary transactional perspectives.

Ukraine was dumb enough to de-nuclearize with security "guarantees" at America's request.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 23, 2022, 02:59:12 pm
The essences of maneuver warfare are mobility and firepower. These vehicles add stealth as well.

Good for this application, and relatively inexpensive.

Nothing like necessity to force a new approach. The way the Ukrainians have used drones, ATV's, e-bikes is something else.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 23, 2022, 03:03:46 pm
Or would you maybe prefer we purposely supported regimes that are a threat to us?
That's not at all what I said, and that certainly wasn't implied.

 I merely stated that asking questions about US policy does not make one a Russian propagandist. That's the allegation to which I responded.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 23, 2022, 03:07:09 pm
@Right_in_Virginia   Some things never change. The French being "surrender monkeys" is one of them.

Well they are great at asking others to surrender sovereign territory. I don't think we would be so agreeable if Mexico wanted Texas back.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 23, 2022, 03:11:01 pm
America supported Sadam Hussein before we opposed him.

America supported Osama bin Laden before he opposed us.

America supported Stalin in WWII before opposing him in the Cold War.

"Friend", "enemy", "ally", and "competitor" are all momentary transactional perspectives.

Ukraine was dumb enough to de-nuclearize with security "guarantees" at America's request.

We never supported Bin Laden.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 23, 2022, 03:14:54 pm
We never supported Bin Laden.
There was a lot of support for the Mujahedin though against the Russians.
We have been here before.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 23, 2022, 03:34:54 pm
There was a lot of support for the Mujahedin though against the Russians.
We have been here before.

That is true. We supplied the home grown rebels. OBL brought his own money and fighters.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 23, 2022, 03:37:31 pm
That is true. We supplied the home grown rebels. OBL brought his own money and fighters.
OBL was related to Saudi Royalty, so he had a bunch of money to work with.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 23, 2022, 04:32:45 pm
"War reporter Aleksandr Kots says that Russian forces have entered Lyman & pushed the AFU back to the western part of the city. The advance is being accompanied by artillery"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1528737229077610499
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 23, 2022, 05:10:48 pm
Quote
Some things never change. The French being "surrender monkeys" is one of them.

From the generation that watched --- without a fight --- American soverenignty destroyed, the American education, economic, judicial and social fabrics stolen and reconstructed by American Marxists --- pointing "surrender monkey" fingers is pretty ironic.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 23, 2022, 05:25:27 pm
From the generation that watched --- without a fight --- American soverenignty destroyed, the American education, economic, judicial and social fabrics stolen and reconstructed by American Marxists --- pointing "surrender monkey" fingers is pretty ironic.   :laugh:
And that somehow deserves a smiley face?

Not all of that generation went along with that crap, by any means.
You are way out of line with that comment.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 23, 2022, 05:31:11 pm
We never supported Bin Laden.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden)

I am pretty sure there is no proof Charlie Wilson had direct ties to Bin Laden.  OTOH...The evidence is pretty strong that our CIA allied with him during their Soviet WAR.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 23, 2022, 05:33:16 pm
OSINT Aggregator
@AggregateOsint
#Italy has circulated a 4-point peace plan to the #UnitedNations for the #UkraineRussiaWar - 1. Immediate ceasefire 2. Permanent #Ukrainian neutrality 3. De facto independence for #Crimea and #Donbas 4. Withdrawal of 🇷🇺 troops and end to 🇷🇺 sanctions.
Wall St. Journal: Italy Circulates 4-Point Peace Plan (https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/russia-ukraine-latest-news-2022-05-20/card/italy-circulates-4-point-peace-plan-h2o9EfwULf6P1mwDbjdn?mod=article_inline)
2:47 PM · May 22, 2022

Clint Ehrlich
@ClintEhrlich

Italy's plan to end the Russo-Ukrainian war has one major flaw:

It requires Crimea to nominally remain part of Ukraine.

Russia will never agree to that, so the peace plan is dead on arrival.

************************

Ukraine likely won't agree to give up Crimea either.

It would be better to simply omit the status of Crimea from the peace plan.

Aim for a return to the status quo ante, where the two sides disagreed about Crimea's status without fighting a war over it.

3:39 PM · May 22, 2022·Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 23, 2022, 05:44:54 pm
And that somehow deserves a smiley face?

Not all of that generation went along with that crap, by any means.
You are way out of line with that comment.

Irony usually makes me laugh.   It can be even more delicious and potent a form of communication than sarcasm.

I didn't say all of the generation sat back without fighting, but ya gotta admit, @Smokin Joe ,  not enough fought to win even one of the fights.

As for my comment being out of line, considering you think everything I post is, I hope you don't mind if I take this latest accusation with a tablespoon of salt.   :laugh:



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 06:55:14 pm
‘Ashamed’ Russian diplomat resigns over ‘needless’ Ukraine war

By Snejana Farberov
May 23, 2022

A veteran Russian diplomat to the UN Office in Geneva resigned Monday, writing in a bombshell letter that he felt “ashamed” to play a part in Russia’s “bloody, witless and absolutely needless” war in Ukraine.

Boris Bondarev, 41, who identified himself on LinkedIn as a counselor at Russia’s permanent mission to the UN working on arms control, told Reuters that he arrived at work “like any other Monday morning,” tendered his resignation and walked right out.

He then sent an English-language letter to foreign colleagues, explaining his potentially risky — if not unprecedented — move.

“For twenty years of my diplomatic career I have seen different turns of our foreign policy, but never have I been so ashamed of my country as on Feb. 24 of this year,” he wrote, referring to the date of Russia’s invasion.

“The aggressive war unleashed by [Russian President Vladimir] Putin against Ukraine, and in fact against the entire Western world, is not only a crime against the Ukrainian people, but also, perhaps most heinous crime against the people of Russia, with a bold letter Z crossing out all hopes and prospects for a prosperous free society in our country,” Bondarev continued.

The ex-diplomat, whose career included previous postings in places like Cambodia and Mongolia, confirmed he handed in his resignation in a letter addressed to Ambassador Gennady Gatilov.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/23/russian-diplomat-to-un-resigns-over-needless-ukraine-war/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 23, 2022, 07:01:05 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden)

I am pretty sure there is no proof Charlie Wilson had direct ties to Bin Laden.  OTOH...The evidence is pretty strong that our CIA allied with him during their Soviet WAR.

Except that they didn't. He hated us for supporting Israel. He didn't need our money anyway. His family is filthy rich from their construction company.  He was paying for the "Afghan Arabs" that went on vacation to Afghanistan.

From an interview with OBL by reporter Robert Fisk in the UK Independent in 1996

Quote
We were never at any time friends of the Americans. We knew that the Americans support the Jews in Palestine and that they are our enemies. Most of the weapons that came to Afghanistan were paid for by the Saudis on the orders of the Americans because Turki al-Faisal, the head of Saudi external intelligence, and the CIA were working together.

http://nobsblog.blogspot.com/1996_12_01_archive.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 08:01:19 pm
From the generation that watched --- without a fight --- American soverenignty destroyed, the American education, economic, judicial and social fabrics stolen and reconstructed by American Marxists --- pointing "surrender monkey" fingers is pretty ironic.   :laugh:

@Right_in_Virginia

What is funny is YOU called ME a "Surrender Monkey"!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 08:07:35 pm
‘Ashamed’ Russian diplomat resigns over ‘needless’ Ukraine war

By Snejana Farberov
May 23, 2022

A veteran Russian diplomat to the UN Office in Geneva resigned Monday, writing in a bombshell letter that he felt “ashamed” to play a part in Russia’s “bloody, witless and absolutely needless” war in Ukraine.

Boris Bondarev, 41, who identified himself on LinkedIn as a counselor at Russia’s permanent mission to the UN working on arms control, 

@Kamaji

Holding that position at age 41 means his family is VERY politically connected in Russia.

Which indicates to ME,that there are a lot more Russians against the war than the news coming out of Russia would indicate.

Even after taking that into consideration,it was a VERY bold move for him to make.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 23, 2022, 08:18:29 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden)

I am pretty sure there is no proof Charlie Wilson had direct ties to Bin Laden.  OTOH...The evidence is pretty strong that our CIA allied with him during their Soviet WAR.

The CIA gave no direct support to bin Laden, although bin Laden may have received US tax dollars courtesy of Pakistan.  But Soviet troops were gone from Afghanistan only a few months after al Qaeda was formed.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 08:27:09 pm
@Kamaji

Holding that position at age 41 means his family is VERY politically connected in Russia.

Which indicates to ME,that there are a lot more Russians against the war than the news coming out of Russia would indicate.

Even after taking that into consideration,it was a VERY bold move for him to make.

@sneakypete

More and more Russians appear to be rejecting the invasion of Ukraine.  Did you see the article on the concert in St. Petersburg?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 23, 2022, 08:43:25 pm
"War reporter Aleksandr Kots says that Russian forces have entered Lyman & pushed the AFU back to the western part of the city. The advance is being accompanied by artillery"

Russians indiscriminately shelling still more Ukrainian civilians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 23, 2022, 08:47:06 pm
Russian assault on key Donbas city intensifies

Matt Murphy, BBC  |  10 hours ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/A4CA/production/_124868124_hi075367107.jpg)
Russia has been intensifying its assault on the strategic city of Severodonetsk.

Russian forces in eastern Ukraine are intensifying attacks on a key city as they seek to seize the Donbas region.

Severodonetsk, the largest city under Ukrainian control in Luhansk province, has come under intense artillery and missile fire from Moscow's forces.

On Sunday, local officials said Russian troops were repelled after trying to enter the city from four directions.

It comes as Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky urged world leaders to end all trade with Russia.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61547756
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 23, 2022, 08:53:12 pm
@sneakypete

More and more Russians appear to be rejecting the invasion of Ukraine.  Did you see the article on the concert in St. Petersburg?

@Kamaji

Yes,I did,and while I agree it WAS a bold move for those people to take,given the constant video surveillance by the Neo Soviet authorities,it takes some serious stones for a Russian official to come out in public against the leadership. Especially in regards to an aggressive offensive by the Russian Army against a neighbor nation.

There is just no way Putin can survive all this and maintain power. Thus,all the sudden news reports about his bad health.

BTW,I have been fighting against the urge to refer to the Russian officials as "Soviets",but decided to start referring to them as "Neo Soviets",because that IS what they are. Same clowns,different costumes.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 23, 2022, 08:59:13 pm
@Kamaji

Yes,I did,and while I agree it WAS a bold move for those people to take,given the constant video surveillance by the Neo Soviet authorities,it takes some serious stones for a Russian official to come out in public against the leadership. Especially in regards to an aggressive offensive by the Russian Army against a neighbor nation.

There is just no way Putin can survive all this and maintain power. Thus,all the sudden news reports about his bad health.

BTW,I have been fighting against the urge to refer to the Russian officials as "Soviets",but decided to start referring to them as "Neo Soviets",because that IS what they are. Same clowns,different costumes.


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 23, 2022, 09:27:20 pm

Russians indiscriminately shelling still more Ukrainian civilians.
Just read some Russian Parliament Member saying that Russia invaded Ukraine for the welfare and benefit of Ukrainian People. This is exactly what almost all invaders say. They are invading to make the country "better".

His words reminded me so much of what America always says when America invades this or that country killing hundreds of thousands or more citizens and destroying/wrecking the whole country. All the invasions America has been involved in for at least 50 years have all been promoted as 'saving' or 'helping' the people there.

Now, Russia is saying the exact same propaganda.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on May 23, 2022, 11:31:07 pm
Just read some Russian Parliament Member saying that Russia invaded Ukraine for the welfare and benefit of Ukrainian People. This is exactly what almost all invaders say. They are invading to make the country "better".

His words reminded me so much of what America always says when America invades this or that country killing hundreds of thousands or more citizens and destroying/wrecking the whole country. All the invasions America has been involved in for at least 50 years have all been promoted as 'saving' or 'helping' the people there.

Now, Russia is saying the exact same propaganda.

What territory have we annexed for ourselves? What country's resources have we taken by force?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 24, 2022, 12:01:26 am
The Columbia Bugle
@ColumbiaBugle

Senator @RogerMarshallMD: ‘War Zone’ At U.S.-Mexico Border ‘Worse’ Than What I Saw At Poland-Ukraine Border

While visiting the U.S.-Mexico border over the last few days, Marshall exclusively told SiriusXM Patriot’s Breitbart News Daily in an interview that the “human tragedy” he has seen from human smuggling to drug trafficking is “the most threatening situation” facing Americans, not the war in Ukraine.

More:  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/05/23/exclusive-roger-marshall-war-zone-at-u-s-mexico-border-worse-than-what-i-saw-at-poland-ukraine-border/

7:46 PM · May 23, 2022    Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 24, 2022, 12:09:05 am
(https://i.postimg.cc/SsgyBG3x/935-DD0-B3-5-E3-E-4326-B403-77-E4812-B50-C2.jpg)

Quote
Zelensky Requests $5 Billion a Month from Global Community in World Economic Forum Speech
Gateway Pundit, May 23, 2022

In the three-day summit’s opening address, Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelensky, dressed in his trademark wartime olive-green T-shirt, and projected on monitors from Kyiv, told about 1,000 CEOs and government officials that Ukraine needs $5 billion a month, beginning immediately, in order to stave off full-blown economic collapse—a collapse that would have deep global ramifications.

“The amount of work is enormous,” he said. “We have more than a half a trillion dollars in losses, and tens of thousands of facilities destroyed. We need to rebuild entire cities and industries.”

Yet rather than describing the dire situation as a crisis, Zelensky cast it as a potentially lucrative opportunity for Western countries and companies.

“Patronage” for investors

Zelensky said Ukraine would have a “special, historically significant model of rebuilding,” in which companies and countries could choose a specific region or mine to rebuild. This system, which he called a “patronage,” is meant as a way of attracting the world’s top engineers and architects to Europe’s biggest reconstruction since the aftermath of the Second World War, nearly 80 years ago.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/05/zelensky-requests-5-billion-month-global-community-sells-investment-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 24, 2022, 12:11:57 am
Russia's blockade will increase starvation and global instability, UN organisation warns

Sky News has been given rare access to the port of Odesa where more than a quarter of a million tonnes of grain has been sitting for months with no means of getting it out to sea.

Dominic Waghorn |  23 May 2022  |  22:30, UK

Russia's blockade of Ukraine will lead to worsening starvation, famine and instability around the world if it cannot be lifted, the World Food Programme has said.


The warning came as Sky News gained rare access to Odesa port on Ukraine's Black Sea coast.

The port should be busy exporting tens of thousands of tonnes of grain but its huge grain elevators stand idle.

Sky was shown a huge grain cargo vessel loaded with 60,000 tonnes.

It should have sailed for Egypt in February but remains moored up thanks to Russia's naval blockade.

Opposite the ship, 30 huge silos stand full of grain.

A quarter of a million tonnes has been sitting there for months with no means of getting it out to sea.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russias-blockade-will-increase-starvation-and-global-instability-un-organisation-warns-12619892
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 24, 2022, 12:23:14 am

What territory have we annexed for ourselves? What country's resources have we taken by force?
The Vietnam war was intended to prevent the Communist from confiscating all of the oil production infrastructure which had been established on land and offshore in the South. Kuwait was certainly about oil. Iraq was about oil and keeping Iran and Syria in check so they would not attack Saudi Arabia. I don't what the hell Afghanistan was about, except maybe nation building trying to create a new ally in the region? I don't know? The end goal was never defined in Afghan. All the crap that happened in South America with Oliver North had undefined/unknown nefarious political goals.

There was an attempt to annex Afghanistan and Iraq by proxy. That is to say they wanted to install pro-Western governments in all or parts of the country which would favor the U.S.

A question to you is, 'Have we ever won ANY war/police action/conflict since WWII? How has anyone benefited from any military action in which the U.S. has committed arms and troops since Korea?' No. The answer is no.

Military Industries made trillions. Congressmen made multimillions from bribes and kickbacks. But other than that, they were almost all disasters for the countries involved and for America.

It is not now and never has been America's charter to be the world police, as has been promoted for decades now by people who directly benefited from it. Sometimes, at least once in a while, nations have to settle their own issues, especially if the conflict has no direct or indirect connection to America's wellbeing.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 24, 2022, 12:42:20 am
Russia's blockade will increase starvation and global instability, UN organisation warns

Sky News has been given rare access to the port of Odesa where more than a quarter of a million tonnes of grain has been sitting for months with no means of getting it out to sea.

Dominic Waghorn |  23 May 2022  |  22:30, UK

Russia's blockade of Ukraine will lead to worsening starvation, famine and instability around the world if it cannot be lifted, the World Food Programme has said.


The warning came as Sky News gained rare access to Odesa port on Ukraine's Black Sea coast.

The port should be busy exporting tens of thousands of tonnes of grain but its huge grain elevators stand idle.

Sky was shown a huge grain cargo vessel loaded with 60,000 tonnes.

It should have sailed for Egypt in February but remains moored up thanks to Russia's naval blockade.

Opposite the ship, 30 huge silos stand full of grain.

A quarter of a million tonnes has been sitting there for months with no means of getting it out to sea.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-russias-blockade-will-increase-starvation-and-global-instability-un-organisation-warns-12619892

Even if they could get it out to sea, what insurance company will provide coverage? BTW, the same problem exists for any tankers that might want to carry Russian oil.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 24, 2022, 12:47:45 am
@Right_in_Virginia

What is funny is YOU called ME a "Surrender Monkey"!

You're not a surrender monkey @sneakypete  You are honorable ---- a patriot committed to the security of the United States.  I have true respect for you as a man ---- and a debate partner.

Where we differ on Ukraine is I think we're being played and you do not.  IMO, we're being played by the same people who have been lying to us and destroying our country from within for 14 years and counting.  They know this isn't our fight, they know we don't have the resources to write blank checks.  They know our involvement is harming America on mutiple and vital levels----- but it fits their agenda and this should scare the hell out of all of us.

Again IMO, anything that accelerates the agenda of the American Marxist --- and Ukraine does --- is a greater threat to us than Vladimir Putin.

Peace.   :beer:



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 24, 2022, 12:59:44 am
You're not a surrender monkey @sneakypete  You are honorabe ---- a patriot committed to the security of the United States.  I have true respect for you as a man ---- and a debate partner.

Where we differ on Ukraine is I think we're being played and you do not.  IMO, we're being played by the same people who have been lying to us and destroying our country from within for 14 years and counting.  They know this isn't our fight, they know we don't have the resources to write blank checks.  They know our involvement is harming America on mutiple and vital levels----- but it fits their agenda and this should scare the hell out of all of us.

Again IMO, anything that accelerates the agenda of the American Marxist --- and Ukraine does --- is a greater threat to us than Vladimir Putin.

@Right_in_Virginia



And it's amazing that the many intelligent, critical thinkers we have on the forum aren't even willing to acknowledge this. 

Reading the thread, it seems they're more interested in virtue-signaling and insulting whenever somebody even takes a neutral position/stance.


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 24, 2022, 01:03:57 am
 9999hair out0000
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 24, 2022, 01:06:57 am
 May 23, 2022 1:51pm EDT
Ukraine reveals worst military loss of war after attack on barracks
Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says 87 killed in airstrike

By Greg Norman | Fox News

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy revealed Monday that 87 soldiers died last week in a Russian strike on a barracks housing troops, making it the largest military loss from a single attack in the ongoing war.

The deadly incident happened on Tuesday, May 17, in the town of Desna, just north of Ukraine’s capital of Kyiv, according to Reuters.

"Today we completed work at Desna. In Desna, under the rubble, there were 87 casualties. Eighty-seven corpses," Zelenskyy was quoted as saying Monday.

Ukraine earlier said only eight people died in the attack, but the new figure of 87 makes it the highest loss of life in a single attack from the war, Reuters reports.

Russia claims it hit the Ukraine military training base with long-range missiles.

As the war rages on though, Russia is also losing a large number of troops, according to the United Kingdom’s Ministry of Defense.

(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2022/05/1862/1048/Desna-Ukraine.png?ve=1&tl=1)
A uniformed soldiers stands around a crater in the middle of a courtyard in Desna, Ukraine, on Tuesday, May 17.

    https://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-reveals-worst-military-loss-of-russia-war
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 24, 2022, 01:08:19 am
Chechen Sheik Mansour battalion fighters take a joy ride on captured Russian T-72

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAL6y82IMZw)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 24, 2022, 01:11:45 am
9999hair out0000

That's not fair, @mystery-ak    :laugh:

Done nothing but lurk for the most part and I'm not any part of your frustration for any of the recent "hair-pulling" you're experiencing now.

You KNOW I'm right.   They conflate anything with less than total compliance for sympathy for the Russian devil.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 24, 2022, 01:25:49 am
US may deploy special forces troops to protect embassy in Ukraine, report says

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/05/us-may-deploy-special-forces-troops-to-protect-embassy-in-ukraine-report-says/ (https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/05/us-may-deploy-special-forces-troops-to-protect-embassy-in-ukraine-report-says/)

Quote
The United States military and other Biden administration officials are considering sending special forces troops to Ukraine to guard the recently reopened U.S. embassy in Kyiv as the Russian invasion continues.

According to U.S. officials, President Joe Biden has not been approached about the plans yet, but if they are approved, the special forces troops would only serve as defense and security of the embassy, the Wall Street Journal reported on Sunday.

Officials may also reinstate the Marine security guard detachment that typically provides security at embassies around the world.

While officials weigh sending dozens of American special forces troops to Ukraine, the State Department will provide its own security for the embassy, which will be comprised of guards in the Diplomatic Security Service.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 24, 2022, 02:19:43 am
Reading the thread, it seems they're more interested in virtue-signaling and insulting whenever somebody even takes a neutral position/stance.

I think you are confusing the Russian invasion of Ukraine with US politics.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 24, 2022, 03:36:36 am

And it's amazing that the many intelligent, critical thinkers we have on the forum aren't even willing to acknowledge this. 

Reading the thread, it seems they're more interested in virtue-signaling and insulting whenever somebody even takes a neutral position/stance.

@DCPatriot

How can anyone remain neutral on this? You are either for it,or against it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 24, 2022, 06:06:39 am
@DCPatriot

How can anyone remain neutral on this? You are either for it,or against it.

Nope....

Most of us want to see Russia fail, but also see it is not in our best interest to fund this bullshot while this country is $30T in debt, and is letting an invasion to go on to our south unabated.  Wrong priority. 

Holding the Russian bear at bay is more of Europe's concern, and since they as a rule are better off financially, should be underwriting it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 24, 2022, 11:16:45 am
US Special Forces veteran, founder of AFGfree.org Perry Blackburn

Russians don't have complete control in «red» zones signed on maps as occupied

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3490843-us-special-forces-veteran-founder-of-afgfreeorg-perry-blackburn.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3490843-us-special-forces-veteran-founder-of-afgfreeorg-perry-blackburn.html)

Quote
The Ukrainians are fighting a brilliant military strategy of using “Defense in Depth” which they learned to do quite quickly. It stalls and confuses the Russians because includes multiple levels of simultaneous attacks from conventional and irregular forces. Retired US Special Forces Lieutenant Colonel Perry Blackburn described these in an exclusive interview for Ukrinform.

He’s been in Ukraine helping distribute much-needed supplies to denied areas with his nonprofit group AFGfree.org. Recently he began an assessment of the Ukrainian Territorial Defense’s efforts to recruit, train, organize and equip Ukrainians in their force structure. Now he’s helping create a cohesive strategy with Ukrainian Territorial Defense to “train the trainers” on the combat basics of how to effectively “shoot, move, and communicate.”   

- In regard to where the war is now, what are you seeing as far as conventional tactics that Ukrainian forces have been using that are most effective against the Russians?

-The defense they're doing is a classic “Defense in Depth.” Ukrainians learned to employ the strategy quickly, and it has been an important strategy against the enemy's advance. It stalls and confuses the Russians when there are multiple levels of simultaneous attacks from conventional and irregular forces, with complete support from the Ukrainian people.

I think the other conventional method that Ukrainians are using quite well is the counteroffensive, the counterattack. As we know, in our military, the only time we defend is to prepare for the offense, and I think that the Ukrainian military is starting to use those same tactics – defend to prepare for the offense, and you see that on the ground a lot more lately than you did on the early days.

- What are Ukrainians doing well, both from a conventional military standpoint and with unconventional or irregular forces? What tactics, techniques, and procedures are Ukrainians using that are effective against Russians?

- Well, to be honest, I really haven’t seen anything effectively used by Russia against the Ukrainians. Growing up in the Cold War era, we knew Russians were going to be a slow, but not methodical, invading force. That they would use artillery to try to punish their opponents and make them capitulate.

I think that's what we saw early on, but somehow, folks forgot that lesson and thought that Russians were about speed and flexibility and that this was going to be over within seven days. But the Ukrainians had a great-great vote in this thing, and they stood up against that and have done an amazing job.

What I’ve seen from the Ukrainian perspective, first of all, is they've come together. They’ve bonded as brothers and sisters at war, and they've established a quick trust in their leadership in President Zelenskyy, which is paramount in conducting any kind of operations against an enemy force. You’ve got to trust each other, and they have absolutely done that, and they've trusted other nations to be part of this effort, even if it’s through support.

The second thing is they've done a great job of using “irregular forces." And I think those couple things there we can't discount on the battlefield. One of them is more the humanitarian side of it and then the other side of course, is how you effectively use your tactics, techniques, and procedures “irregularly” against an enemy to abate their advance and then neutralize it; and then counterattack that and regain the territory. And though as slow as that can be at times because it is irregular, combine that with the conventional Ukrainian forces, and you see that they are making some great strides.

I’ve seen it on the ground with a lot of the folks that we work with for humanitarian aid that are pushing in supplies in denied areas that may have been captured initially by the Russians but are now pulling back, those areas need supplies quicker than in other areas of Ukraine.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 24, 2022, 11:19:23 am
I think you are confusing the Russian invasion of Ukraine with US politics.

War is the apex of the poitical pyramid ---- including in the US. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 24, 2022, 11:53:17 am
War is the apex of the poitical pyramid ---- including in the US.

Politics is the study of power.  War is the consequence of weakness.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 24, 2022, 12:05:38 pm
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html)

Putin is Fighting the War He Chooses
By Ernest Sipes

As I returned from Ukraine a few days ago after my first post-COVID reporting trip and after a couple days of letting my aging bones resume their proper position after the trauma of 10 hours in an economy-class airline seat, I do believe I have gained some insight into the logistics of this conflict after all.

Which I have to say I initially doubted.

During those three weeks in Ukraine, I was present for missile attacks in two cities, sat wide-eyed through dozens of artillery barrages, spent hours discussing the war with a wounded Ukrainian soldier on a 17 hour train ride from Lviv to Dnipro in a small train cabin, visited with serving members of the Ukrainian army, photographed many wrecked buildings in the eastern part of the country and ate borscht so many times that I believe I can now identify the recipe differences between Dnipro and Lviv

continued at above link...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 24, 2022, 12:08:14 pm
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html)

Putin is Fighting the War He Chooses
By Ernest Sipes

As I returned from Ukraine a few days ago after my first post-COVID reporting trip and after a couple days of letting my aging bones resume their proper position after the trauma of 10 hours in an economy-class airline seat, I do believe I have gained some insight into the logistics of this conflict after all.

Which I have to say I initially doubted.

During those three weeks in Ukraine, I was present for missile attacks in two cities, sat wide-eyed through dozens of artillery barrages, spent hours discussing the war with a wounded Ukrainian soldier on a 17 hour train ride from Lviv to Dnipro in a small train cabin, visited with serving members of the Ukrainian army, photographed many wrecked buildings in the eastern part of the country and ate borscht so many times that I believe I can now identify the recipe differences between Dnipro and Lviv

continued at above link...

Then he makes very poor choices.  Russia has lost more soldiers than it lost in Afghanistan.  That will have long-term consequences to the Butcher of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 24, 2022, 12:21:22 pm
Politics is the study of power.  War is the consequence of weakness.

Politics is more than the study of power --- it is the implementation of power.

War is the apex of the poitical pyramid.  It overshadows all other national issues and interests and bestows extra powers to the ruling government  over all aspects of the lives their citizens.

War is also the consequence of wrong choices, propaganda and group think.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 24, 2022, 12:21:57 pm
Video nasty: Russian PoW's film shows cruelty and chaos as bungled Ukraine invasion crumbles, writes IAN BIRRELL

By IAN BIRRELL FOR THE DAILY MAIL
23 May 2022

 A Russian tank officer who was captured after one month fighting in Ukraine was found to have been filming a home movie about the invasion on his mobile phone.

The footage, in which he talks about comrades being turned into ‘scraps of meat’ and ‘mince’, offers an astonishing insight into Moscow’s spluttering invasion as his gun jams, his vehicle explodes and a raid on a Ukrainian military base goes wrong.

It was filmed by Yuri Shalaev – a 23-year-old lieutenant who trained at Moscow’s top military academy and was stationed in Chechnya before the war – in defiance of Kremlin orders to avoid using personal mobile phones on security grounds.

Anton Gerashchenko, an adviser to Kyiv’s interior ministry, says: ‘This is very rare since 95 per cent of the occupiers do not take their phones and if they do, very few of them have smartphones, since most come from poorer regions of Russia. It is significant since it shows the callous actions and chaotic military approach of the Russian forces.’

[VIDEO AT SOURCE]

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10847093/Russian-PoWs-film-shows-cruelty-chaos-bungled-Ukraine-invasion-crumbles-writes-IAN-BIRRELL.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 24, 2022, 12:26:22 pm
British warships could be sent in to protect freighters carrying crucial Ukrainian grain and break Putin's blockade of Black Sea ports that is threatening to cause a world food crisis

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
23 May 2022

Britain is co-ordinating with its allies on a potential plan to send warships to the Black Sea port of Odesa to offer a protective escort to ships exporting Ukrainian grain.

Lithuanian foreign minister Gabrielius Landsbergis said yesterday he had discussed the creation of such a 'protective corridor' from Odesa with British foreign secretary Liz Truss.

He also said a 'coalition of the willing', made up of NATO countries and other nations reliant on the grain such as Egypt, may be willing to commit military resources to bolster the protection and avert widespread food shortages.

The plan would see allied navies clear the area around the southern port of Russian mines before protecting freight ships carrying the vital produce from Putin's warships according to The Times.

Long-range missiles will also be deployed to deter any Russian attempts to sabotage the corridor.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10847419/Royal-Navy-escort-ships-carrying-Ukrainian-grain-Black-Sea.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 24, 2022, 12:38:12 pm
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html (https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2022/05/putin_is_fighting_the_war_he_chooses.html)

Putin is Fighting the War He Chooses
By Ernest Sipes

As I returned from Ukraine a few days ago after my first post-COVID reporting trip and after a couple days of letting my aging bones resume their proper position after the trauma of 10 hours in an economy-class airline seat, I do believe I have gained some insight into the logistics of this conflict after all.

Which I have to say I initially doubted.

This is an article worth reading.  The author takes great pains to include photos, logistics and maps.  He is not pro-Russia and supports Ukraine's fight --- which makes his perspective all the more interesting. 

A bit more FTA:

Quote
Despite what the media is presenting, the army of the Russian Federation is not made up of rampaging Orcs who rape, murder and pillage. And they have not, as we are told, being bested in every contest with the Ukrainian army. Additionally, Moscow’s army is not exhausted and out of fuel, equipment and supplies. There have not been mass desertions from Russia’s army. What you are reading is the typical propaganda that always seems to show up in a war in this region. I saw the exact same thing and devices used in the 2008 South Ossetia War when I worked for the newspaper Georgia Today and that particular Russian Invasion was occurring.

Perhaps it is best to begin by being honest and recognize that Moscow is exercising (to some extent anyway) restraint in this action so far. I am not defending this endeavor, but this is the simple fact of the military situation as I perceive it.

If you accept that a decision has been made to only accomplish a relatively small set of specific goals as outlined above, it is easy to see that this is why there has been no out-and-out destruction of the infrastructure of Ukraine when it is well within the ability of Moscow to do so.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 24, 2022, 01:21:00 pm
Jack Posobiec
@JackPosobiec

Notice the rhetoric shift

Now both the NY Times Editorial Board and Henry Kissinger at the WEF are both calling for a negotiated peace for Ukraine even it it means ceding territory to Russia

7:33 AM · May 24, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 24, 2022, 02:03:31 pm
Then he makes very poor choices.  Russia has lost more soldiers than it lost in Afghanistan.  That will have long-term consequences to the Butcher of Ukraine.

@Kamaji

And to add to the Kremlin's woes,the typical Russian citizen is MUCH better informed on what is going on in the world outside of Russia today than they ever were in the past.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 24, 2022, 02:06:07 pm
Politics is more than the study of power --- it is the implementation of power.

War is the apex of the poitical pyramid.  It overshadows all other national issues and interests and bestows extra powers to the ruling government  over all aspects of the lives their citizens.


Well said!

War is also the consequence of wrong choices, propaganda and group think.

So are the consequences of not going to war when it is necessary. Both good and bad decisions have consequences.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: MOD3 on May 24, 2022, 04:00:20 pm
Stay on topic or else more posts will be removed.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 24, 2022, 04:01:45 pm
@Kamaji

And to add to the Kremlin's woes,the typical Russian citizen is MUCH better informed on what is going on in the world outside of Russia today than they ever were in the past.

I certainly hope so. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 24, 2022, 05:30:35 pm
Russia launches all-out assault to encircle Ukrainian troops in twin cities straddling eastern river in battle which could determine the success or failure of Moscow's campaign

By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
24 May 2022

Bloody battles are raging on Ukraine's eastern frontline today as Russia launches an all-out effort to surround and capture two key cities in the Donbas in what could prove a pivotal moment for Putin's war.

Heavy fighting is today underway to the south, west and north of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk - sister cities straddling the Donets River in Ukraine's industrial heartland, where it is thought thousands of Ukrainian troops are trying to hold the line against mounting assaults.

Lung-crushing thermobaric rockets were filmed pounding Lyman, 30 miles to the west of the cities, late Monday and into Tuesday as Moscow's forces stormed into the outskirts in an attempt to capture one of the last remaining Ukrainian stronghold on the eastern bank of the river, opening the way for a pincer movement to the south.

Meanwhile rockets were also pounding the cities of Bakhmut and Soledar as the Russian soldiers fought for control of the town of Vasylivka and captured Svitlodarsk - driving Ukrainian defenders back and moving the other arm of the pincer steadily northwards.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10850061/Ukraine-war-Russia-steps-attacks-encircle-twin-cities-Donbas.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 24, 2022, 09:05:00 pm
Russia loses its highest-ranking pilot yet in Ukraine as former Air Force Major, 63, comes out of retirement… and is blasted out of the skies

By David Averre For Mailonline
24 May 2022

A Russian Air Force Major General has been shot out of the sky above the Luhansk region, marking the latest in a long line of high-profile military losses sustained by Russia amid its invasion of Ukraine.

Major General Kanamat Botashev, 63, was enjoying retirement when Russian tanks rolled across the border on February 24 and had not flown since 2012.

His Su-25 fighter jet was hit by a Stinger missile at around 8:25am on Sunday morning in the Donbas skies, and he was unable to eject.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10850289/Russia-loses-highest-ranking-pilot-Ukraine-former-Air-Force-Major-63-shot-down.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 24, 2022, 09:06:45 pm
Kremlin officials 'are already discussing who will replace Putin' because 'there is an understanding he will not run the country in the foreseeable future'

By David Averre For Mailonline
24 May 2022

Top-ranking Russian officials are said to be plotting a government without Vladimir Putin after Kremlin sources claimed the Russian President has turned almost everybody against him amid the invasion of Ukraine.

Three months to the day since Russian tanks first rolled across the Ukrainian border, a government source told Russian-Latvian outlet Meduza 'there are almost no people who are satisfied with Putin' among Kremlin officials and Russian elites.

'Businessmen and many members of the government are unhappy that the president started the war without thinking about the scale of the sanctions - it is impossible to live with such sanctions,' the source said - a sentiment which was later corroborated by two other government insiders.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10850615/Kremlin-officials-discussing-replace-Putin.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 24, 2022, 09:22:43 pm
Russia loses its highest-ranking pilot yet in Ukraine as former Air Force Major, 63, comes out of retirement… and is blasted out of the skies

By David Averre For Mailonline
24 May 2022

A Russian Air Force Major General has been shot out of the sky above the Luhansk region, marking the latest in a long line of high-profile military losses sustained by Russia amid its invasion of Ukraine.

Major General Kanamat Botashev, 63, was enjoying retirement when Russian tanks rolled across the border on February 24 and had not flown since 2012.

His Su-25 fighter jet was hit by a Stinger missile at around 8:25am on Sunday morning in the Donbas skies, and he was unable to eject.

*  *  *

 

@Kamaji

Are the Neo-Soviets so hard up for fighter pilots now that they need to pull senior citizens out of retirement to fly them?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 24, 2022, 10:02:45 pm
@Kamaji

Are the Neo-Soviets so hard up for fighter pilots now that they need to pull senior citizens out of retirement to fly them?

Maybe the poor SOB was influenced by the TOP GUN - MAVERICK trailer?  Fantasy vs Reality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSqVVswa420
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 24, 2022, 10:32:24 pm
@Kamaji

Are the Neo-Soviets so hard up for fighter pilots now that they need to pull senior citizens out of retirement to fly them?

It's probably just the macho Russian thing - same reason Putin still thinks he's Mr. Butch.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 25, 2022, 12:18:49 am
GW accidentally tells the truth about Iraq and Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y23mTSviCZo
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 25, 2022, 03:32:29 am
Ukraine Army using France’s CAESAR to destroy Russian invaders

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3491436-ukraine-army-using-frances-caesar-to-destroy-russian-invaders.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3491436-ukraine-army-using-frances-caesar-to-destroy-russian-invaders.html)

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2022_05/thumb_files/630_360_1653423217-349.jpg)

Quote
The Ukrainian military are launching artillery strikes on Russian invaders with France’s CAESAR howitzers.

The relevant statement was made by Mariupol City Council on Telegram, an Ukrinform correspondent reports.

“The inscription ‘For Mariupol’ had been added to one of 155 mm artillery shells fired by our defenders at Russian occupiers,” the report states.

According to Mariupol City Council, France’s CAESAR howitzers are used in Ukraine for the first time.

https://t.me/mariupolrada/9729 (https://t.me/mariupolrada/9729)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 25, 2022, 03:38:52 am
Maybe the poor SOB was influenced by the TOP GUN - MAVERICK trailer?  Fantasy vs Reality.

Top Gun is a gay movie.

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZF1LXL6OOsM)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 25, 2022, 03:44:59 am
Melitopol residents resist Russian occupation

Abdujalil Abdurasulov - BBC, Kyiv  |  1 day ago

Russian forces met fierce resistance from residents when they arrived in the southern Ukrainian city of Melitopol in February.


Locals tried to block armoured vehicles as the convoy of soldiers rolled in to occupy the city, and people flooded the streets waving Ukrainian flags.

When the Russians started cracking down on the protesters, the resistance movement was forced to evolve and new groups emerged.

Melitopol, according to the US-based Institute for the Study of War, is an area where partisan warfare has been active since at least the middle of March.

Ukraine's Military Intelligence Directorate has reported that from 20 March to 12 April "partisans eliminated 70 Russian soldiers during their night patrol".

These groups are continuing to carry out attacks.  .  .

https://twitter.com/TheStudyofWar/status/1528503624304713729

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61525477
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 25, 2022, 03:47:15 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FTgkvcJXoAAqek5?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 25, 2022, 03:51:40 am
Eight more Russian troops accused of 'torturing and killing civilians' in criminal case

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1614940/ukraine-live-sergei-lavrov-russia-vladimir-putin-invasion-war-nuclear-weapon-latest-update (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1614940/ukraine-live-sergei-lavrov-russia-vladimir-putin-invasion-war-nuclear-weapon-latest-update)

Quote
MORE RUSSIAN TROOPS have reportedly been accused of war crimes during the conflict in Ukraine.

The news follows the sentencing of the first Russian soldier of war crimes in Ukraine for killing an unarmed civilian during the early days of the invasion.

Reports of war crimes committed by Russian forces began to emerge from the beginning of President Vladimir Putin’s offensive at the end of February and at a fuller force as Ukrainian troops reclaimed ground from Russia.

According to a tweet from NEXTA, the largest Eastern European media outlet, eight more Russians have been accused of war crimes in Ukraine.

The organisation tweeted: “Eight more Russians are accused of crimes in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 25, 2022, 03:55:55 am
 Czech Republic gives Ukraine attack helicopters

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3491538-czech-republic-gives-ukraine-attack-helicopters.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3491538-czech-republic-gives-ukraine-attack-helicopters.html)

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2017_07/thumb_files/630_360_1500120613-9029.jpeg)
Quote
The Czech Republic has supplied to Ukraine a number of attack helicopters and, together with Slovakia, is currently repairing dozens of armored vehicles, which will return to combat once restored.

This was reported on Tuesday by The Wall Street Journal with reference to the Pentagon, Ukrinform wrote.

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin has thanked the Czech government for their contribution, the newspaper said.

It is specified that the Ukrainian side received Soviet-made Mi-24 attack helicopters, which have already been sent to Ukraine in the context of joint efforts to reclaim its airspace.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 25, 2022, 04:05:35 am
Czech Republic gives Ukraine attack helicopters

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3491538-czech-republic-gives-ukraine-attack-helicopters.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3491538-czech-republic-gives-ukraine-attack-helicopters.html)

Quote
This was reported on Tuesday by The Wall Street Journal with reference to the Pentagon, Ukrinform wrote.

In other words, Ukrinform reported this only after someone at the Pentagon leaked it to the WSJ.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 25, 2022, 09:07:55 am


In other words, Ukrinform reported this only after someone at the Pentagon leaked it to the WSJ.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 25, 2022, 10:58:20 am
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, May 24
(https://www.understandingwar.org/sites/default/files/styles/square_thumbnail/public/ISW%20LOGO%20FINAL%20ACRONYM%20%20%20NAME_ISW%20LOGO%20FINAL%20ACRONYM%20NAME%20CMYK_435.png?itok=M1ioCXCZ)
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-24 (https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-24)

Quote
Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to complete a single large encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements—enabling them to make incremental measured gains. Russian forces are likely attempting to achieve several simultaneous encirclements of small pockets of Ukrainian forces in Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts: the broader Severodonetsk area (including Rubizhne and Lysychansk), Bakhmut-Lysychansk, around Zolote (just northeast of Popasna), and around Ukrainian fortifications in Avdiivka. Russian forces have begun steadily advancing efforts in these different encirclements daily but have not achieved any major “breakthroughs” or made major progress towards their stated objectives of securing the Donetsk Oblast borders or seizing all of Donbas. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai reported that Ukrainian forces only controlled approximately 10 percent of Luhansk Oblast as of May 15 (compared to 30 percent prior to the full-scale Russian invasion on February 24, 2022).[1] Russian forces have secured more terrain in the past week than efforts earlier in May. However, they have done so by reducing the scope of their objectives—largely abandoning operations around Izyum and concentrating on key frontline towns: Russian performance remains poor.

Russian forces will additionally likely face protracted urban combat if they successfully encircle Severodonetsk (as well as in other large towns like Bakhmut), which Russian forces have struggled with throughout the war. Russian forces are committing a significant number of their troops, artillery, and aircraft to defeat Ukrainian defenders in Luhansk Oblast and are likely pulling necessary resources from the Izyum axis, defensive positions around Kharkiv City, Donetsk City, and the Zaporizhia area. Luhansk Oblast Administration Head Serhiy Haidai has previously compared Ukrainian forces in Luhansk Oblast to the previous defenders of Mariupol, which aimed to wear out Russian forces and prevent further offensive operations.[2] The UK Defense Ministry also noted that a Russian victory over Severodonetsk will only worsen Russian logistical issues and extend Russian ground lines of communication (GLOCs).[3] Russian forces are making greater advances in the past week than throughout the rest of May—but these advances remain slow, confined to smaller objectives than the Kremlin intended, and face continued Ukrainian defenses; they do not constitute a major breakthrough.

Senior Kremlin officials are increasingly openly admitting that the Russian offensive in Ukraine is moving slower than anticipated and are grasping for explanations to justify the slow pace. Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed that Russian operations in Ukraine are progressing slowly because Russian forces want to afford civilians the opportunity to evacuate, though Russian forces have targeted Ukrainian civilians throughout the war and repeatedly denied Ukrainian attempts to negotiate humanitarian evacuation corridors.[4] Shoigu’s statement is notably his first admission that Russian forces are behind schedule and is the first official statement on the pace of the war since Belarusian President Alexander Lukashenko stated that the operation was “dragging” on May 4.[5] Russian milbloggers are criticizing Shoigu’s claimed consideration for civilians and claimed that Soviet troops would not have cared if “Nazi” civilians evacuated, part of the growing Russian nationalist reaction that the Kremlin is not doing enough to win the war in Ukraine.[6] Director of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service Sergey Naryshkin stated that the ultimate goal of the Russian offensive is to ensure “Nazism” is “100% eradicated, or it will rear its head in a few years, and in an even uglier form.”[7] Naryshkin and Shoigu’s statements indicate that Russian officials are likely setting conditions for a protracted war in Ukraine in order to justify slower and more measured advances than initially anticipated.

Forcefully mobilized servicemen from the Donetsk and Luhansk People’s Republics continued to protest the Russian and proxy military command. Servicemen of the 3rd Infantry Battalion of the 105th Infantry Regiment from the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) recorded a video appeal to DNR Head Denis Pushilin wherein they claimed they were mobilized on February 23 and that they have been forced to actively participate in hostilities despite their lack of military experience. The battalion stated that they served on the frontlines in Mariupol and have been redeployed to the territory of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) with only 60% of their original personnel and are now dealing with severe morale issues and physical exhaustion. The battalion notably claimed that the servicemen did not go through routine medical inspection prior to service and that many are suffering from chronic illnesses that should have rendered them ineligible for service. The video appeal is consistent with numerous reports from Ukrainian and Western sources that proxy forces are largely forcibly mobilized, poorly trained, and suffering from declining morale, but is notable due to the willingness of the DNR servicemen to publicly express their discontent.[8]

Key Takeaways

•   Russian forces have likely abandoned efforts to encircle large Ukrainian formations in eastern Ukraine and are instead attempting to secure smaller encirclements and focus on Severodonetsk.

•   This change in the Russian approach is enabling gradual advances—but at the cost of abandoning several intended lines of advance and abandoning the Kremlin’s intended deep encirclement of Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine.

•   Ukrainian forces are likely conducting a controlled withdrawal southwest of Popasna near Bakhmut to protect Ukrainian supply lines against Russian offensives in the southeast of Bakhmut.

•   Russian occupation authorities in Mariupol announced that they will hold war crimes trials against Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol in a likely effort to strengthen judicial control of the city and support false Kremlin narratives of Ukrainian crimes.

•   Russian forces are attempting to retake Ternova in northern Kharkiv Oblast and seek to stabilize defensive positions near the Russian border against the Ukrainian counteroffensive.

•   Russian forces are forming reserves and deploying S-400 missile systems in northwest Crimea to reinforce the southern axis.

•   Several DNR servicemen openly released a video appeal to DNR leader Denis Pushilin stating they have been forced into combat operations without proper support, indicating increasing demoralization among Russian and proxy forces.

We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports.

•   Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts);

•   Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts

•   Supporting effort 1—Mariupol;

•   Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City;

•   Supporting effort 3—Southern axis.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 25, 2022, 11:25:17 am
Henry Kissinger: Ukraine Should Give Up Territory to Russia to Reach Peace

https://www.newsweek.com/henry-kissinger-ukraine-should-give-territory-russia-reach-peace-1709488 (https://www.newsweek.com/henry-kissinger-ukraine-should-give-territory-russia-reach-peace-1709488)

Quote
Former secretary of state Henry Kissinger has said Ukraine should accept giving up part of its territory to reach a peace deal with Russia, and end the now three-month-long war immediately.

Talking at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos, Switzerland, on Monday, 98-year-old Kissinger said that failing to restart negotiations with Russia and continuing to antagonize Moscow could have disastrous consequences for Europe's stability in the long term.

"Negotiations need to begin in the next two months before it creates upheavals and tensions that will not be easily overcome," he said.

"Ideally, the dividing line should be a return to the status quo ante. Pursuing the war beyond that point would not be about the freedom of Ukraine, but a new war against Russia itself."

Kissinger, who served under the administrations of Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford in the 1970s, warned against dragging on the war, and pressed for negotiations.

The former secretary of state said Russia has been an essential part of Europe for 400 years, acting as balancing power in critical times for the continent. Kissinger said Western countries should remember the importance of Russia in Europe and not get swept up "in the mood of the moment."

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 25, 2022, 11:35:57 am
Russian forces 'begin secret operation to remove the dead from sunken cruiser Moskva' amid new claim that conscripts were 'left to drown' as officers 'fled the ship like rats'

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
25 May 2022

Russian forces secretly conducted a macabre operation to remove the dead from the sunken cruiser Moskva, reports have claimed.

The flagship of Putin's Black Sea Fleet was sunk on 14 April by a suspected Ukrainian Neptune missile strike.

Russia has still not acknowledged the huge death toll, so far only admitting one casualty from the embarrassing blow to the Kremlin war effort.

But Ukrainian military intelligence has claimed Russia carried out a two-week salvage operation involving seven vessels following the sinking.

It comes amid a new claim that young naval sailors were 'left to drown' while 'officers fled the ship like rats'.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10852517/Russian-forces-begin-secret-operation-remove-dead-sunken-cruiser-Moskva.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on May 25, 2022, 11:40:16 am
Czech Republic gives Ukraine attack helicopters

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3491538-czech-republic-gives-ukraine-attack-helicopters.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3491538-czech-republic-gives-ukraine-attack-helicopters.html)

(https://static.ukrinform.com/photos/2017_07/thumb_files/630_360_1500120613-9029.jpeg)

I've been buzzed by on of those before in Czech. They are more impressive in person than they are in pictures.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 25, 2022, 02:01:52 pm
Henry Kissinger: Ukraine Should Give Up Territory to Russia to Reach Peace

 

@Elderberry

Kissinger has always been a surrender monkey.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 25, 2022, 02:02:59 pm
Russian forces 'begin secret operation to remove the dead from sunken cruiser Moskva' amid new claim that conscripts were 'left to drown' as officers 'fled the ship like rats'

 

And you think YOUR job sucks!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 25, 2022, 02:12:46 pm
And you think YOUR job sucks!

A diver friend was tasked with removing bodies from a jackup rig that sank in the Mississippi River while being moved during a storm. He said it was so muddy he couldn't see anything and was just feeling himself around. Something grabbed his leg. He then discovered several crewmen in an air pocket and was able to rescue them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 25, 2022, 02:19:56 pm
A diver friend was tasked with removing bodies from a jackup rig that sank in the Mississippi River while being moved during a storm. He said it was so muddy he couldn't see anything and was just feeling himself around. Something grabbed his leg. He then discovered several crewmen in an air pocket and was able to rescue them.

@Elderberry

I am assuming he had no trouble cleaning the "sludge" out of his dive suit after surfacing?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 25, 2022, 02:21:28 pm
And you think YOUR job sucks!
A former neighbor of ours, now deceased, served in WWII and Korea. I interviewed him many years ago for an article marking the 50th anniversary of the Korean war. His sole job in Korea was unloading bloodied corpses that were brought in from the battlefield - day after day.  **nononono*
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 25, 2022, 02:47:05 pm
Henry Kissinger: Ukraine Should Give Up Territory to Russia to Reach Peace

Kissinger does a great job of playing 'good cop'.  Unfortunately, there is no Nixon around to play 'bad cop'.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 25, 2022, 03:31:16 pm
A former neighbor of ours, now deceased, served in WWII and Korea. I interviewed him many years ago for an article marking the 50th anniversary of the Korean war. His sole job in Korea was unloading bloodied corpses that were brought in from the battlefield - day after day.  **nononono*

@mountaineer

I met a guy back in the late 70's from a small country town where he had lived all his life,and he had been drafted into the army during the VN,sent to VN,and assigned to a Graves Registration Unit. I might have the title wrong,but his job,as an 18 year old away from home for the first time in his life,was to go over battlefields after a fight and police up the bodies,and the parts of bodies of American troops and then try to match the parts with the bodies,and bring them back to the Graves Registration Unit he was assigned to.

The VN bodies were just pushed into a big hole using a bulldozer,and covered  up.

This was maybe the saddest,quietest,man I have ever met. Didn't even date or get married until his 30's and even then it was a widow wanting a good husband that snatched him up and basically told him to marry her.

Probably the best thing that ever happened to him. He was already married to her when I met him,but she gave him a safe place to stay and seemed to be very protective of him. Even to the point where she would sometimes answer questions for him when he was in one of his "moods",and would just stare at the floor.

Worked for both of them,and I am glad they found each other.

Still,I can get a little depressed even today just thinking about the horrors this innocent young boy had to face against his will.

AND....,the army being the army,I met a guy at Bragg after coming back from VN who was a 3rd Generation undertaker from a family in Ohio. He also got drafted during the VN war,and the freaking army made HIM a radio operator!

Sometimes there just ain't no rhyme or reason for stuff.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 25, 2022, 03:49:16 pm
@mountaineer

I met a guy back in the late 70's from a small country town where he had lived all his life,and he had been drafted into the army during the VN,sent to VN,and assigned to a Graves Registration Unit. I might have the title wrong,but his job,as an 18 year old away from home for the first time in his life,was to go over battlefields after a fight and police up the bodies,and the parts of bodies of American troops and then try to match the parts with the bodies,and bring them back to the Graves Registration Unit he was assigned to.

The VN bodies were just pushed into a big hole using a bulldozer,and covered  up.

This was maybe the saddest,quietest,man I have ever met. Didn't even date or get married until his 30's and even then it was a widow wanting a good husband that snatched him up and basically told him to marry her.

Probably the best thing that ever happened to him. He was already married to her when I met him,but she gave him a safe place to stay and seemed to be very protective of him. Even to the point where she would sometimes answer questions for him when he was in one of his "moods",and would just stare at the floor.

Worked for both of them,and I am glad they found each other.

Still,I can get a little depressed even today just thinking about the horrors this innocent young boy had to face against his will.

AND....,the army being the army,I met a guy at Bragg after coming back from VN who was a 3rd Generation undertaker from a family in Ohio. He also got drafted during the VN war,and the freaking army made HIM a radio operator!

Sometimes there just ain't no rhyme or reason for stuff.

After reading that, it seems to me the job of Body Policing should be strictly voluntary....
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 25, 2022, 05:16:28 pm
After reading that, it seems to me the job of Body Policing should be strictly voluntary....

@Cyber Liberty

If that were the case,most would be left to rot in the open.

I honestly don't think anyone under 30 should be assigned a job like that,though. It is just too traumatic for the typical teen to deal with.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 25, 2022, 06:21:32 pm
@Cyber Liberty

If that were the case,most would be left to rot in the open.

I honestly don't think anyone under  should be assigned a job like that,though. It is just too traumatic for the typical teen to deal with.

Sticking him with the detail because he's "the new guy" is what it was.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 25, 2022, 06:46:34 pm
200 bodies found inside Mariupol basement as Russian troops intensify efforts to encircle Severodonetsk

A Ukrainian official said the bodies were decomposing and a "stench" was covering the area. It is the latest horror to come to light in the key port city, which has been a key target for Vladimir Putin since the war began.

Jess Sharp  |  24 May 2022  |  20:19, UK

The bodies of 200 people have been discovered inside a basement in Mariupol, local authorities have said.


(https://e3.365dm.com/22/05/1600x900/skynews-mariupol-ukraine_5782815.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20220524190037)

Workers digging through the rubble of an apartment building made the grim discovery, with the number of victims found making it one of the deadliest attacks of the war.

An adviser to the region's mayor, Petro Adryushchenko said the bodies were decomposing and a "stench" covered the surrounding area.

"The city has turned into a continuous cemetery," he said in an online post, adding that a "makeshift morgue" had been set up to deal with "a large number of corpses".

It is the latest horror to come to light in the key port city, which has been an important target for Russian forces since their invasion started three months ago.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-200-bodies-found-inside-mariupol-basement-as-russian-troops-intensify-efforts-to-encircle-severodonetsk-12620614
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 25, 2022, 08:17:00 pm
It comes amid a new claim that young naval sailors were 'left to drown' while 'officers fled the ship like rats'.
'Fled' to where!? They certainly did not go back to Russia. It would be better to drown.
Reporting back to Putin to tell him that you just lost his so called 'flagship' would not be a wise decision.
Wherever they went, I'm sure it was in the opposite direction of anywhere close to Russia.


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 25, 2022, 08:33:32 pm

A former neighbor of ours, now deceased, served in WWII and Korea. I interviewed him many years ago for an article marking the 50th anniversary of the Korean war. His sole job in Korea was unloading bloodied corpses that were brought in from the battlefield - day after day.  **nononono*
Knew a guy who was a 'mortician' in Iraq. Same job. It made him crazy. The guy was as loony as the mad-hatter. Eventually he flipped out and started beating the shit out of anyone around him, just for no reason. Anyone he could reach he attacked. Pure luck he was not armed. He would have shot us all. Or we would have shot him.

Restrained, handcuffed, and put on the bus to somewhere. The last I saw him he was looking out the bus window at me while being hauled away. Fighting his handcuffs, hate in his eyes and foaming at the mouth.

Sometimes people question whether PTSD, Shell Shock, Combat Neurosis ... all that, is a real thing. I saw it. And yes, it is very real. When it builds to a trigger point, it happens in a flash out of nowhere.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 25, 2022, 08:37:50 pm
Sticking him with the detail because he's "the new guy" is what it was.

@Partially true. He was a "new guy",as well as a Private E-2 when he got there. There are few creatures in the world with fewer "rights" than a E-2 in the military. E-2's have no experience doing anything,and have zero experience,so it is natural that they always get the "Bush Jobs".

The fact that he came from a very rural area and was pretty much ignorant of the world as well as being painfully shy didn't help his cause.

If he had of had any experience in the army,he would have immediately started screwing up everything he touched in order to force them into giving him a different job. After all,what the hell did a draftee E-2 in VN have to lose? The most they could do would be to send him back to the US and kick him out of the army,and he never wanted to be in the army to start with.

IIRC,his nightmares were related to him worrying about putting the wrong body parts in the body bag with the body. One HELL of a thing for an innocent 18 year old to have to deal with that had never left his mama before being drafted.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 25, 2022, 08:43:08 pm
'Fled' to where!? They certainly did not go back to Russia. It would be better to drown.
Reporting back to Putin to tell him that you just lost his so called 'flagship' would not be a wise decision.
Wherever they went, I'm sure it was in the opposite direction of anywhere close to Russia.

@240B

I am guessing the lower-ranked enlisted swine had very little to worry about because in the "classless society of Communism",peasants/enlisted swine are not expected to do much other than follow orders without question.

The officers are another story. Any that aren't related to someone important that was rescued is most likely in deep doo-doo.

Other than the high-ranking officers,of course. Important officials are almost never punished in "classless societies".  Mostly because they are related to someone very important,or they would have never gotten any important positions.

Odd how "classless societies" work in real life,ain't it?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: berdie on May 25, 2022, 09:41:15 pm
@Cyber Liberty

If that were the case,most would be left to rot in the open.

I honestly don't think anyone under 30 should be assigned a job like that,though. It is just too traumatic for the typical teen to deal with.




My FIL had the "clean up" detail during WWII. He was a young guy.

Don't get me wrong, I adored the guy but he was a little bit "teched in the head". My MIL told me about his stint in the clean up that caused it.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 25, 2022, 11:02:26 pm



My FIL had the "clean up" detail during WWII. He was a young guy.

Don't get me wrong, I adored the guy but he was a little bit "teched in the head". My MIL told me about his stint in the clean up that caused it.

@berdie

I have a hard time believing any teen,fresh from the bosom of his mama would be able to handle a job like that without suffering serious psychological damage.

Some things are just too brutal for youths inexperienced with the realities of war to deal with,and this implies no fault that can be laid at their feet.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 26, 2022, 12:01:59 am
UK Backs Plan to Escort Grain Ships Past Russia’s Naval Blockade of Ukraine

OLIVER JJ LANE  |  24 May 202


The United Kingdom supports a proposal by Lithuania to recruit an international fleet of naval warships to break the Russian blockade of Ukraine which is preventing the export of huge amounts of grain to the rest of the world.

Millions of tons of grain are stuck inside Ukraine and without it, levels of world hunger are considered highly likely to rise and may even trigger another migrant crisis. Such is the background to the suggestion by Lithuania that a so-called “coalition of the willing” of warships outside the structures of NATO could work together on getting food out of Ukraine’s seaports.

The remarks of Lithuanian foreign minister, Gabrielius Landsbergis, proposing the plan to build a naval coalition were reported Monday by The Guardian, which recorded him as saying: “Time is very very short. We are closing in on a new harvest and there is no other practical way of exporting the grain except through the Black Sea port of Odesa… There is no way of storing this grain and no other adequate alternative route.”  .  .  .

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/24/uk-backs-plan-to-escort-grain-ships-past-russias-naval-blockade-of-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 26, 2022, 12:13:21 am
Russia loses its highest-ranking pilot yet in Ukraine as former Air Force Major, 63, comes out of retirement… and is blasted out of the skies

Russian media confirms:  https://www.bbc.com/russian/features-61559430
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 26, 2022, 12:30:25 am
Russia now sending mothballed T-62s out of storage to Ukraine.

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKu9gJQ15Zs)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 26, 2022, 09:00:58 am
Russia now sending mothballed T-62s out of storage to Ukraine.

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKu9gJQ15Zs)

I’m sure those will be in tip-top shape!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 26, 2022, 11:44:26 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/apgddrM_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 26, 2022, 12:21:21 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/abgdRLb_460s.jpg)
Russia is burying their Honored Dead Heroes in produce crates instead of expensive coffins.
Does Western Europe really fear a country this poor?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 26, 2022, 12:59:00 pm

Russia is burying their Honored Dead Heroes in produce crates instead of expensive coffins.
Does Western Europe really fear a country this poor?

Last data point of Debt to GDP ratio (2021)

Russia- 17.2%

USA- 137.2%

An argument could be made who is really is the poorer country.  Ours is the one who can spend carelessly as the owner of the world reference currency. WITH NO CHECKS OR BALANCES.   

This is basically the same analogy of comparing two people...  One driving fine cars, nice house, and hopelessly in debt.  Versus one who looks dirt poor, living pay check to paycheck, but has little or no debt.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 26, 2022, 03:14:01 pm
I’m sure those will be in tip-top shape!

@Kamaji

I wonder how long it will be before they run out of parts to service and repair them,and just leave them abandoned in roads somewhere?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 26, 2022, 03:28:43 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/abgdRLb_460s.jpg)
Russia is burying their Honored Dead Heroes in produce crates instead of expensive coffins.
Does Western Europe really fear a country this poor?

They would be dumb not to.

Russia has the largest stockpile of nuclear bombs in the world. As they are defeated in conventional warfare the possibility increases that they will use "tactical" nuclear weapons to escalate the conflict in order to negotiate a de-escalation to their benefit. It's why we need to avoid a direct conflict between NATO and Russia. NATO would destroy Russia's conventional forces pretty quickly. Ukraine is a rare opportunity. In Ukraine the war will end when Russia leaves, or is forced out of Ukraine. If a NATO member is attacked the war will probably escalate so quickly Russia will see tactical nuclear weapons as their only option.

Ukraine is not asking for NATO soldiers to do the fighting. They only want the weapons to defeat the invader, Russia. If we supply the means, Ukraine can stop Russia and NATO does not become involved. Also, Russia is in the process of becoming a third world country. As that process takes hold if their military can be neutralized they will cease to be a serious threat.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 26, 2022, 03:31:54 pm
Last data point of Debt to GDP ratio (2021)

Russia- 17.2%

USA- 137.2%

An argument could be made who is really is the poorer country.  Ours is the one who can spend carelessly as the owner of the world reference currency. WITH NO CHECKS OR BALANCES.   

This is basically the same analogy of comparing two people...  One driving fine cars, nice house, and hopelessly in debt.  Versus one who looks dirt poor, living pay check to paycheck, but has little or no debt.

Let me know when all the seniors in the USA are ready to stop getting social security and medicare and I will take this argument more seriously.

If you really want the federal govt. to get it's spending under control. You need to outlaw the Federal Reserve buying US Treasuries.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 26, 2022, 03:32:32 pm
They would be dumb not to.

Russia has the largest stockpile of nuclear bombs in the world. As they are defeated in conventional warfare the possibility increases that they will use "tactical" nuclear weapons to escalate the conflict in order to negotiate a de-escalation to their benefit. It's why we need to avoid a direct conflict between NATO and Russia. NATO would destroy Russia's conventional forces pretty quickly. Ukraine is a rare opportunity. In Ukraine the war will end when Russia leaves, or is forced out of Ukraine. If a NATO member is attacked the war will probably escalate so quickly Russia will see tactical nuclear weapons as their only option.

Ukraine is not asking for NATO soldiers to do the fighting. They only want the weapons to defeat the invader, Russia. If we supply the means, Ukraine can stop Russia and NATO does not become involved. Also, Russia is in the process of becoming a third world country. As that process takes hold if their military can be neutralized they will cease to be a serious threat.

@bilo 

Good post!

I will add that the US and Other NATO nations need to make DAMN SURE the Ukrainians do NOT invade Russia by trying to follow the retreating Russians back home.

Ukraine knows Russia far better than I do,but no matter how unlikely such an event may be,it still needs to be mentioned and monitored.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 26, 2022, 04:06:12 pm
Let me know when all the seniors in the USA are ready to stop getting social security and medicare and I will take this argument more seriously.

If you really want the federal govt. to get it's spending under control. You need to outlaw the Federal Reserve buying US Treasuries.

The cure is beyond any of our ability of any common citizen.. The perpetual kicking the can down the road will end when foreign entities lose faith in those treasuries, and the Chicoms, et.al go to a different, and likely universal currency.  The $USD will be forced to float to it, and not vice versa. When the dust settles, think Zimbawe or Weimar Republic.

When that occurs, life in Russia will look luxurious versus what will be in store here.  It will be governmental default.  The rest of the world, and predominately the Chicoms will own us.  We will really get to see what poor means.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 26, 2022, 04:11:05 pm
Let me know when all the seniors in the USA are ready to stop getting social security and medicare and I will take this argument more seriously.

Is there no American citizen you will not sacrifice at the altar of Zelensky?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 26, 2022, 04:16:55 pm
Let me know when all the seniors in the USA are ready to stop getting social security and medicare and I will take this argument more seriously.

I have been ready for that my entire life.  For 40 years, I have been paying into a giant ponzi scheme at the point of a gun - a ponzi scheme of which I have wanted no part.  And still don't.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 26, 2022, 04:18:43 pm
Is there no American citizen you will not sacrifice at the altar of Zelensky?

What does Zelensky have to do with this?

(See logical fallacies:  Red herring)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on May 26, 2022, 04:34:09 pm
I have been ready for that my entire life.  For 40 years, I have been paying into a giant ponzi scheme at the point of a gun - a ponzi scheme of which I have wanted no part.  And still don't.

I am approaching payment of $2M in Fed income tax in my lifetime, and to an entity that even after that fleecing is $30T in debt.

Why should I trust or support my goverment in any endeavor.....   including Ukraine?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 26, 2022, 04:40:33 pm
I am approaching payment of $2M in Fed income tax in my lifetime, and to an entity that even after that fleecing is $30T in debt.

Why should I trust or support my goverment in any endeavor.....   including Ukraine?

For the record, I don't trust or support my government's endeavor in Ukraine.  But that doesn't prevent me from supporting Ukraine in repelling the Russian invaders.  But yes, it would be nice to have that $2M back.  If you had been able to invest it yourself instead of the government stealing it, you would probably be sitting on around $6-7M.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 26, 2022, 04:52:57 pm
What does Zelensky have to do with this?

(See logical fallacies:  Red herring)

Not a red herring, but a necessary question that is uncomfortable for some.  (The discussion was about continuing to fund Zelensky's war ---- with money this nation doesn't have.)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 26, 2022, 05:19:57 pm
Not a red herring, but a necessary question that is uncomfortable for some.  (The discussion was about continuing to fund Zelensky's war ---- with money this nation doesn't have.)

This isn't Zelensky's war.  It's Putin's war.  He has been waging it since 2014 when his puppet Yanukovych was driven from office.  And no, the discussion wasn't about funding the war.  It was about Russia using food crates to bury their war dead.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on May 26, 2022, 05:36:19 pm
This isn't Zelensky's war.  It's Putin's war.

"Potayto, Potahto"    :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 26, 2022, 05:44:16 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/abgdRLb_460s.jpg)
Russia is burying their Honored Dead Heroes in produce crates instead of expensive coffins.
Does Western Europe really fear a country this poor?

That might be a cremation casket, if the remains are to be cremated rather than buried in a cemetery.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 26, 2022, 06:06:11 pm
I have been ready for that my entire life.  For 40 years, I have been paying into a giant ponzi scheme at the point of a gun - a ponzi scheme of which I have wanted no part.  And still don't.

I agree 100%!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 26, 2022, 06:07:35 pm
Is there no American citizen you will not sacrifice at the altar of Zelensky?

Will you ever consider posting a serious response?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 26, 2022, 06:20:59 pm
This isn't Zelensky's war.  It's Putin's war.  He has been waging it since 2014 when his puppet Yanukovych was driven from office.  And no, the discussion wasn't about funding the war.  It was about Russia using food crates to bury their war dead.

@Hoodat

Waste of time trying to use logic against the "Bette Red than Dead" crowd.

There is no end to the excuses they can come up with to justify allowing Russia to do anything she wants.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 26, 2022, 06:23:41 pm
That might be a cremation casket, if the remains are to be cremated rather than buried in a cemetery.

@Kamaji

I am far from being any sort of authority on funerals,but I know of a couple of cases where the deceased was put in a nice coffin for display to grieving friends and relatives,and then once that ended,taken out of the coffin and cremated.

I think it is possible they MAY do the same thing in Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 26, 2022, 06:30:03 pm
@Kamaji

I am far from being any sort of authority on funerals,but I know of a couple of cases where the deceased was put in a nice coffin for display to grieving friends and relatives,and then once that ended,taken out of the coffin and cremated.

I think it is possible they MAY do the same thing in Russia.

Yes, I understand that that's often done; perhaps it wasn't done in this case.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 26, 2022, 06:32:28 pm
@Kamaji

I am far from being any sort of authority on funerals,but I know of a couple of cases where the deceased was put in a nice coffin for display to grieving friends and relatives,and then once that ended,taken out of the coffin and cremated.

I think it is possible they MAY do the same thing in Russia.

I think they use cardboard boxes for cremation...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 26, 2022, 06:35:06 pm
I think they use cardboard boxes for cremation...

It depends, from what I've seen online.  There are certainly cardboard boxes used, but I believe that they also sometimes use plain pine caskets that have little or no metal fittings or attachments, to make the cremation process simpler.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 26, 2022, 06:37:34 pm
I think they use cardboard boxes for cremation...

@Cyber Liberty

Could be,but it would be a waste of cardboard.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on May 26, 2022, 06:43:32 pm
@Cyber Liberty

Could be,but it would be a waste of cardboard.

Something has to corral the as-yet unburned parts of the corpse while the fire is going, so I believe it's cardboard.  Wood leaves tars all over the burn unit. :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 26, 2022, 07:03:23 pm
Something has to corral the as-yet unburned parts of the corpse while the fire is going, so I believe it's cardboard.  Wood leaves tars all over the burn unit. :shrug:

@Cyber Liberty

Cardboard would burn up before the body.

I don't know,but SUSPECT they just burn the body over some sort of steel arrangement that allows the ashes to fall to a tin "collection container" below where the body burns.

Or,for all I know,they just burn the body over a thick steel plate it is placed on,and then vacuum or sweep up the ashes.

NOT really an authority on burning bodies.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 26, 2022, 07:13:54 pm
The mobile crematorium trucks that Russia is using do not have companion flatbed trailers loaded with cheap human-sized crates following them around.  So I suspect they can cremate a dead soldier without wood ar corregated.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on May 26, 2022, 07:15:36 pm
Hate like hell to find remnants of a wooden orange crate in a human remains urn.   :bolt:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on May 26, 2022, 07:23:16 pm
I think they use cardboard boxes for cremation...
I don't know about the cremation of war dead, but if you're really interested in what goes on in cremation here in the US, this mortician can tell you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX-DeO9fX08

Sorry to take this even farther afield than it was.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 26, 2022, 11:27:43 pm
Russo-Ukrainian War Video Tank Update for May 26, 2022

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=51519

It’s been three months since Russia invaded Ukraine, and there’s more tank news coming out as the main theater has shifted to eastern Ukraine. Here’s a (mostly) video roundup of the news:

•  We hear a lot about Russia has 20,000 tanks (or some other crazy high number) in reserve. This guy went through satellite photos of all Russian tank storage yards and came up with an estimate of 6,000, only 3,000 of which appear as if they could be made battle ready. (A lot of the photos show hulks with their turrets off

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhgVrKJJoA&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHhgVrKJJoA&t=1s)

•   Did Russia’s First Tank Army lose 130 tanks in the Battle of Kharkiv alone?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vvpFC80oQM&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vvpFC80oQM&t=1s)

•   Ukraine appears to have knocked out a Russian T-90M tank, the most modern Russian tank that’s actually been fielded:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjx_GMLF--Y&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjx_GMLF--Y&t=1s)

(There’s still no sign of Russia’s T-14 Armata in-theater.)

•  Update: As of this writing, Russia has lost 729 tanks in Ukraine, and a total of 4,134 “vehicles” (including helicopters, UAVs, and even towed artillery pieces) in theater.

•  Is Russia demothballing T-62s to send to Ukraine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtNn6JD_ySo&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtNn6JD_ySo&t=1s)

Remember, the Soviets stopped manufacturing the T-62 in 1975, the same year that the Captain & Tennille and “Rhinestone Cowboy” topped the charts and The Rocky Horror Picture Show debuted in theaters…

•  Ukraine has also taken delivery of the Brimstone anti-tank missile from the UK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW--vLj9yZ4&t=1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW--vLj9yZ4&t=1s)

•  Not a tank, but built on a T-72 chassis, is the Russian T-2 “Terminator,” which sports duel 30mm auto-cannons for close support of tanks in urban warfare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoQzC-aF_G4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoQzC-aF_G4)

 That does look like it would but a world of hurt on urban defensive positions, but won’t be any more immune to NATO-sourced Ukrainian antitank weapons, and they reportedly only have a handful in-theater.

•  Also not a tank: Ukrainian forces take out a thermobaric (AKA “vacuum bomb”) missile launcher:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ycw5phf0Wg&t=3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ycw5phf0Wg&t=3s)

•  Turns out that the Russian military’s catastrophic performance in Ukraine is not a great advertisement for its weapon systems, and India is canceling some big deals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAJq8Vn6k9s&t=3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAJq8Vn6k9s&t=3s)

And in tank news related to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the U.S. is accelerating it’s delivery of M1A2 Abrams tanks to Poland, to back-fill for the Soviet-era tanks Poland gave to Ukraine.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 27, 2022, 01:06:30 am
Russian mum's fight to save sons from Putin's war

Steve Rosenberg, Moscow - 6 hours ago

When Marina's two sons were conscripted last winter to the Russian army she welcomed the idea of her children doing a year's military service.


"I told them that they had to serve," Marina tells me, "it was their duty to the motherland."

But a few weeks later she began to worry. Her sons had been deployed to an area close to the border with Ukraine.

On 24 February President Vladimir Putin ordered Russian troops to invade Ukraine. That day Marina (not her real name) lost contact with her sons.

"Time stopped for me. I couldn't eat. I couldn't sleep," she told me. "I exchanged messages with the mothers of other conscripts from the same unit. It turned out that many of them had lost contact with their children, too."

The Kremlin promised that Russian conscripts would not be sent to Ukraine.

So where were Marina's sons?

"I got in the car and started searching. On the phone one of the commanders insisted that they were on military exercises out in the fields. I said: 'I've driven round all the fields near here where there had been exercises. They're not there. Please don't lie to me.' He hung up."

"Once, out of desperation, I tried to drive into Ukraine. Of course, they didn't let me through. There were check-points everywhere."

"Then the casualties started arriving. I got a call from someone telling me there were dead and wounded. I rushed to the military hospital."

Marina's sons were not there, but she was shocked by what she saw.

"In the military hospital there wasn't enough medicine or bandages. Local residents supplied everything. The soldiers were cold and hungry. Local people with a big heart were bringing food and drink to the hospital."

Eventually someone at her sons' military unit admitted that they were, indeed, in Ukraine.

"I was told the terrifying news: 'Your children have signed military contracts to be professional soldiers. They're taking part in the special military operation [in Ukraine]. They will return as heroes'."

"What on earth are you talking about? They had no plans to sign a contract," was her response. "They've been in the army for three months. They've only held a gun once. They've only been to a firing range once. Most of the time they've been shovelling snow."

"I wrote to the prosecutor-general's office asking to investigate. I told them there was no way my sons could have signed military contracts. I was certain. Other mothers wrote, too. They all knew their children."  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61599932
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 27, 2022, 01:31:18 am
Russia's 'elite' airborne forces involved in 'several notable tactical failures'

01:33


Russia's "elite" airborne forces - the VDV - have sustained "heavy casualties" since the start of the war, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MOD) says in its latest intelligence update.

The 45,000-strong force has been heavily involved in "several notable tactical failures" during the invasion, the department says.

It adds: "This includes the attempted advance on Kyiv via Hostomel Airfield in March, the stalled progress on the Izium axis since April, and the recent failed and costly crossings of the Siverskyi Donets River.

"The VDV has been employed on missions better suited to heavier armoured infantry and has sustained heavy casualties during the campaign.

"Its mixed performance likely reflects a strategic mismanagement of this capability and Russia's failure to secure air superiority."  .  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-public-dissatisfaction-predicted-in-russia-after-claim-they-have-lost-as-many-troops-as-in-nine-year-afghan-war-12541713?postid=3945378#liveblog-body
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 27, 2022, 02:15:01 am
Russia's 'elite' airborne forces involved in 'several notable tactical failures'

01:33


Russia's "elite" airborne forces - the VDV - have sustained "heavy casualties" since the start of the war, the UK's Ministry of Defence (MOD) says in its latest intelligence update.

The 45,000-strong force has been heavily involved in "several notable tactical failures" during the invasion, the department says.

It adds: "This includes the attempted advance on Kyiv via Hostomel Airfield in March, the stalled progress on the Izium axis since April, and the recent failed and costly crossings of the Siverskyi Donets River.

"The VDV has been employed on missions better suited to heavier armoured infantry and has sustained heavy casualties during the campaign.

"Its mixed performance likely reflects a strategic mismanagement of this capability and Russia's failure to secure air superiority."  .  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-public-dissatisfaction-predicted-in-russia-after-claim-they-have-lost-as-many-troops-as-in-nine-year-afghan-war-12541713?postid=3945378#liveblog-body

@Hoodat

It is a sad,sad reality that airborne troops that jump into combat are shot all to hell while still in the air,or right after they land and are trying to unstrap all the equipment and get ride of the parachute.

Airborne troops arriving by trucks or on foot at at no more risk than any other infantry soldiers.

Which isn't saying much because the infantry are the people that do most of the actual fighting and dying.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 27, 2022, 12:48:27 pm
‘We can show you what we’re capable of in six seconds’: Putin’s Chechen warlord protégé Ramzan Kadyrov threatens to attack POLAND in retaliation for its support for Ukraine during invasion

By STEWART CARR FOR MAILONLINE
26 May 2022

President Putin’s protégé Ramzan Kadyrov, the leader of the Chechen Republic, has threatened to launch a military attack on Poland in retaliation for its steadfast support for Ukraine.

Warsaw has been one of President Zelensky’s strongest allies throughout the three-month invasion by Russian forces.

Poland has acted as a gateway for thousands of Ukrainian refugees fleeing to the west, and it has also stood up to Russia in the European Parliament by urging a ban on Russian gas and oil imports, The Telegraph reports.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10859347/Putins-Chechen-warlord-prot-g-Ramzan-Kadyrov-threatens-attack-POLAND-support-Ukraine.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 27, 2022, 12:49:54 pm
Chechens are being kidnapped in 'mass abductions' and forced to fight as 'volunteers' in Russia's war in Ukraine, human rights groups claim

By CHRIS MATTHEWS FOR MAILONLINE
27 May 2022

Chechens are being snatched from their homes in 'mass abductions' and forced to fight as 'volunteers' in Russia's invasion of Ukraine, human rights groups have claimed.

A group that fights against Chechen corruption and Russian propaganda called 1Adat said hundreds were being forced to fight in Ukraine.

President Putin's protégé Ramzan Kadyrov, 45, the leader of the Chechen Republic, is one of the Russian despot's most ardent followers and has frequently shared strong criticisms of the West.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10860007/Chechens-kidnapped-mass-abductions-forced-fight-volunteers-Russias-Ukraine-war.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 27, 2022, 06:25:12 pm
Boris Johnson warns Russia is 'chewing through ground' in eastern Ukraine as he urges more support for Kyiv forces

By JAMES TAPSFIELD, POLITICAL EDITOR FOR MAILONLINE
27 May 2022

Boris Johnson today warned that Russia is 'chewing through ground' in eastern Ukraine as he urged more support for Kyiv's forces.

The PM said Vladimir Putin's military is making 'palpable progress' in the Donbas region despite the 'incredible heroism' of the resistance.

In an interview with Bloomberg, he said more offensive weapons including long-range multiple-launch rocket systems are needed to help counter the threat.

The Ministry of Defence says Putin's invading troops have recently captured several villages as they attempt to surround Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in the Donbas.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10860409/Boris-Johnson-warns-Russia-chewing-ground-eastern-Ukraine.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 27, 2022, 08:34:54 pm
Russia’s ‘cauldron’ tactic may be tipping Donbas battle in its favour

Analysis: smaller encirclements that are pounded with artillery are forcing exhausted Ukrainian forces to yield

Dan Sabbagh and Peter Beaumont  |  27 May 2022  |  11.51 EDT

After several weeks of deadlock, Russia’s military appears to have found a way to advance in the Donbas – pounding it with such intense, unsophisticated artillery that Ukraine’s exhausted defenders are having to yield.

Volodymyr Zelenskiy rarely gives casualty figures but Ukraine’s president said last Sunday that “50 to 100 Ukrainian troops die on Donbas frontlines each day”, meaning perhaps 3,000 a month in the grisly war of attrition.

Wounded will typically be three or perhaps four times as much, a serious loss for a Donbas defence force estimated at 30,000 before the war began, although the numbers increased following Ukraine’s mass mobilisation.

“Russian forces have secured more terrain in the past week than efforts earlier in May,” reported the Institute for the Study of War on Tuesday, in particular approaching the frontline city of Sievierodonetsk and in villages nearby.

“The shelling of Sievierodonetsk is growing exponentially,” said Serhiy Haidai, the governor of Ukraine’s Luhansk region, which is now 95% controlled by the Russians. He estimated 10,000 Russian troops and an extra 2,500 pieces of equipment had been committed to the attack.  .  .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/27/russia-cauldron-tactic-may-tipping-donbas-battle-favour
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 27, 2022, 08:39:33 pm
This is where the switchblade 600 drones with a 50 mile range would be helpful in taking out artillery and perhaps even ammo dumps for that artillery.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 28, 2022, 01:18:06 am
Boris Johnson warns Russia is 'chewing through ground' in eastern Ukraine as he urges more support for Kyiv forces

By JAMES TAPSFIELD, POLITICAL EDITOR FOR MAILONLINE
27 May 2022

Boris Johnson today warned that Russia is 'chewing through ground' in eastern Ukraine as he urged more support for Kyiv's forces.

The PM said Vladimir Putin's military is making 'palpable progress' in the Donbas region despite the 'incredible heroism' of the resistance.

In an interview with Bloomberg, he said more offensive weapons including long-range multiple-launch rocket systems are needed to help counter the threat.

The Ministry of Defence says Putin's invading troops have recently captured several villages as they attempt to surround Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in the Donbas.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10860409/Boris-Johnson-warns-Russia-chewing-ground-eastern-Ukraine.html

He's right!

A good indicator that things are going in Russia's favor at the moment is comments from Zelenskyy about negotiating.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 28, 2022, 01:42:01 am
Instead of defeating Russia decisively in the first month, the Biden regime decided to delay, choosing instead to bleed Russia slowly.  Bad decision.  Especially for Ukraine.  The irony here could be that the $40 billion will end up in Russian hands to rebuild newly annexed territories that they destroyed.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 28, 2022, 11:23:46 am
Russians demine part of seaport in Mariupol, sending stolen steel products to Rostov-on-Don

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3494247-russians-demine-part-of-seaport-in-mariupol-sending-stolen-steel-products-to-rostovondon.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3494247-russians-demine-part-of-seaport-in-mariupol-sending-stolen-steel-products-to-rostovondon.html)

The Russian military has demined part of the seaport in Mariupol and is sending 3,000 tonnes of steel products by ship to Rostov-on-Don.

Quote
According to Ukrinform, Verkhovna Rada Human Rights Commissioner Liudmyla Denisova said this on Telegram.

"The looting by the ruscists in the temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine continues. Following the theft of Ukrainian grain, the occupiers resorted to exporting metal products from Mariupol. To do this, they demined part of the city's seaport," Denisova wrote.

She said that the first ship from Mariupol to Rostov-on-Don carried 3,000 tonnes of steel products. Prior to the occupation, there were up to 200,000 tonnes of metal and cast iron worth $170 million in the port.

In addition, to make it easier to take the loot, the enemy began to restore rail links in Mariupol and Volnovakha.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 28, 2022, 12:23:28 pm
Russians demine part of seaport in Mariupol, sending stolen steel products to Rostov-on-Don

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3494247-russians-demine-part-of-seaport-in-mariupol-sending-stolen-steel-products-to-rostovondon.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3494247-russians-demine-part-of-seaport-in-mariupol-sending-stolen-steel-products-to-rostovondon.html)

The Russian military has demined part of the seaport in Mariupol and is sending 3,000 tonnes of steel products by ship to Rostov-on-Don.


Looting on an industrial scale - just like the old nazis used to do.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 28, 2022, 12:57:33 pm
 US to transfer long-range rocket systems to Ukraine amid Donbas struggle: reports
by Lexi Lonas - 05/28/22 7:55 AM ET

The U.S. will transfer long-range rocket systems to Ukraine to help aid the country’s fight against Russia in the Donbas region, officials told multiple outlets.

Ukrainian officials have been asking the U.S. to send the Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) or the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS), CNN first reported, citing U.S. officials.

The weapons would be a significant improvement from Ukraine’s current artillery — an MLRS is able to fire hundreds of kilometers away and HIMARS is able to fire the same type of ammunition as an MLRS.

Defense officials did not specify to The New York Times what kind of weapons transfer would be announced. However, the outlet noted that the transfer would likely be made next week.

The Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System is the most common system that the U.S. uses. 

more
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3504730-us-to-transfer-long-range-rocket-systems-to-ukraine-amid-donbas-struggle-reports/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 28, 2022, 01:01:03 pm
Tide Turning? Boris Johnson Warns Russians Making ‘Palpable Progress’ in Donbas

Jack Montgomery 28 May 2022

Britain’s Prime Minister Boris Johnson has warned that Russian forces are now making “palpable progress” in eastern Ukraine, saying Ukrainian forces need long-range rocket launchers and other military hardware.

Britain’s defence ministry said on Friday that Moscow’s troops have recently captured several villages as they attempt to surround Sievierodonetsk and Lysychansk in the eastern Donbas region, but do not yet have full control of the region.

“By 27 May, Russian forces had likely captured most of the town of Lyman, in the north of Donetsk Oblast, in what is likely a preliminary operation for the next stage of Russia’s Donbas offensive,” the Ministry of Defence (MoD) noted in its regular defence intelligence update on Saturday, describing the territory as “strategically important” due to its proximity to river crossings and a major railway junction.

Prime Minister Johnson, meanwhile, told news agency Bloomberg that Russian President Vladimir Putin “at great cost to himself and Russian military is continuing to chew through ground in Donbas, he’s continuing to make gradual, slow but I’m afraid palpable progress.”

Ukrainian foreign minister appeared to lend credence to this prognosis on Thursday, warning that the situation in the east, where Russian-backed separatists have had a foothold in two self-declared “people’s republics” since 2014, “is as dire as people say.”

more
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/28/tide-turning-boris-johnson-warns-russians-making-palpable-progress-in-donbas/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 28, 2022, 05:47:04 pm
US to transfer long-range rocket systems to Ukraine amid Donbas struggle: reports
by Lexi Lonas - 05/28/22 7:55 AM ET

The U.S. will transfer long-range rocket systems to Ukraine to help aid the country’s fight against Russia in the Donbas region, officials told multiple outlets.

Ukrainian officials have been asking the U.S. to send the Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS) or the High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS), CNN first reported, citing U.S. officials.

The weapons would be a significant improvement from Ukraine’s current artillery — an MLRS is able to fire hundreds of kilometers away and HIMARS is able to fire the same type of ammunition as an MLRS.

Defense officials did not specify to The New York Times what kind of weapons transfer would be announced. However, the outlet noted that the transfer would likely be made next week.

The Guided Multiple Launch Rocket System is the most common system that the U.S. uses. 

more
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3504730-us-to-transfer-long-range-rocket-systems-to-ukraine-amid-donbas-struggle-reports/

If the admn actually does what it says it will do this would be a big help to Ukraine. They could destroy the bridges the Russians are using to resupply the orcs.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 28, 2022, 08:25:34 pm
To Replenish Its Army In Ukraine, Russia Plans To Strip Its Training Units. It Can Only Do This Once.

Forbes by David Axe 5/28/2022

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/05/28/to-replenish-its-army-in-ukraine-russia-plans-to-strip-its-training-units-it-can-only-do-this-once/?sh=51e18240a98f (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/05/28/to-replenish-its-army-in-ukraine-russia-plans-to-strip-its-training-units-it-can-only-do-this-once/?sh=51e18240a98f)

Quote
Before Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered his forces to widen their war on Ukraine starting the night of Feb. 23, the Russian army had 168 battalion tactical groups.

A BTG is the Russian army’s basic unit for ground warfare. Each BTG includes around 800 soldiers plus 50 or so armored vehicles. For the Ukraine campaign, the army concentrated at least 125 of its 168 BTGs—three-quarters of the overall combat force.

Three months later, the Ukrainians have destroyed 4,100 Russian vehicles, killed up to 15,000 Russian troops and wounded perhaps several times that number. Russia’s losses amount to the dissolution of around three-dozen BTGs.

So it’s worth asking: as Russia attempts to sustain a fresh offensive across a small pocket of Ukrainian troops in the city of Severodonetsk, in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region, how many BTGs are left? And how many more battalions can the Kremlin mobilize?

When the Russian army retreated from northern Ukraine in March and April, it reconstituted some BTGs and also deployed fresh battalions from Russia’s fringes. The Pentagon on May 16 estimated Russia had 106 BTGs in Ukraine. Ten days later the battalion count was up to 110—this despite the Russians losing one or two BTGs trying to cross the Siverskyi Donets River, north of Severodonetsk, in early May.

With 110 BTGs in Ukraine, the Russian army might have just 20 or 30 battalions in reserve. Realistically, some of them cannot deploy without exposing the cities or borders they guard. For example, the remaining BTGs in Kaliningrad, Russia’s geographically-separate exclave on the Baltic Sea.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 29, 2022, 03:48:15 pm
Southern Counterattack Against Russian Forces Underway

STETSON PAYNE  |  MAY 28, 2022 6:53 PM


The Ukrainian Armed Forces have reportedly begun a counterattack northeast of Kherson in an attempt to undercut Russia’s Southern Group of Forces.

Frontlines between Mykolaiv and Kherson in southern Ukraine have remained relatively stable for weeks despite heavy bombardment and airstrikes by both sides. Saturday’s new offensive reportedly put Ukrainian forces across the Inhulets River near Bilohirka, a village about 30-40 miles northeast of Kherson.

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1530630366905638912

A breakout from here could conceivably threaten Russian-held crossings over the lower Dnieper River at the Nova Kakhovka dam and the Antonovskiy Bridge on Kherson’s east side.  .  .

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-southern-counterattack-against-russian-forces-underway
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 29, 2022, 04:30:14 pm
Lithuanians had a bake sale.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FT3G-8CXoAAPZry?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 29, 2022, 04:34:43 pm
New concerns over Putin’s health as spy claims he’s ‘losing sight’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-drones-nuclear-weapons-latest-b2089611.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-drones-nuclear-weapons-latest-b2089611.html)

Situation in Donbas ‘indescribably difficult’, Volodymyr Zelensky warns

Quote
Fresh doubts have been cast over Vladimir Putin’s health, after a purported Russian spy claimed the president has “a severe form of rapidly progressing cancer” and has been given just three years to live by doctor.

FSB defector Boris Karpichkov said messages he has received from an unidentified Russian agent claim the 69-year-old president’s “eyesight is seriously worsening” to the point which he needs speeches written in letters “so big each page can only hold a couple of sentences” when appearing on television.

Chiming with footage of Mr Putin which has fuelled widespread specualation over his health, the spy claimed the Russian president’s limbs are “now also shaking uncontrollably”.

More: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-drones-nuclear-weapons-latest-b2089611.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-drones-nuclear-weapons-latest-b2089611.html)


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 29, 2022, 04:38:11 pm
Russia scraps age limit for new troops in Ukraine push

6 hours ago

Russia has scrapped its age limit for professional soldiers, paving the way for more civilian experts to be recruited for the Ukraine conflict.


President Vladimir Putin has signed a law enabling people over 40 to enlist for the armed forces. They are expected to be people of normal working age.

Previously the army had age limits of 18-40 years for Russians and 18-30 for foreigners.

Russia is presenting it as a move to recruit more technical specialists.

The new law says specialists are required to operate high-precision weapons and "experience shows that they become such by the age of 40-45". More medics, engineers and communications experts may also be recruited.

Ukrainian and Western military experts say Russia has suffered heavy losses in the war: about 30,000 killed, according to Ukraine, while the UK government estimates the toll at about 15,000.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61619638



The Germans did the same thing in 1945.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 29, 2022, 04:38:28 pm
New concerns over Putin’s health as spy claims he’s ‘losing sight’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-drones-nuclear-weapons-latest-b2089611.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-ukraine-war-drones-nuclear-weapons-latest-b2089611.html)

Situation in Donbas ‘indescribably difficult’, Volodymyr Zelensky warns

@Elderberry

The Soviets have a long history of using health reasons as an excuse to replace whatever Dictator is currently pissing the Politburo off. Poot Poot is no different.

It's their way to drawing back onto themselves by replacing their leadership without having to admit they were wrong.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 29, 2022, 05:08:48 pm
Russian Forces Storm City as Zelensky Visits Front

POKROVSK, Ukraine (AP) – Russian and Ukrainian troops engaged in close-quarter combat in an eastern Ukraine city Sunday as Moscow’s soldiers, supported by intense shelling, attempted to gain strategic footholds for conquering the region in the face of fierce Ukrainian resistance.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/05/29/russian-forces-storm-frontline-city-as-zelensky-visits/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on May 29, 2022, 05:29:36 pm
Putin crumbling as Russians openly turn on bloody war 'Immediate withdrawal'

Express by Teresa Gottein Martinez, Brian McGleenon, Isabella Marsans 5/29/2022

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1617286/ukraine-live-russia-war-updates-vladimir-putin-losses-battlefield-zelensky (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1617286/ukraine-live-russia-war-updates-vladimir-putin-losses-battlefield-zelensky)

VLADIMIR Putin is coming under pressure from Russians to end his bloody war in Ukraine with a politician demanding the Kremlin "immediately withdraw" its troops.
Quote
Leonid Vasyukevich, a communist lawmaker from the Khabarovsky Krai in the far east of Siberia urged Putin to end the conflict in Ukraine. He said: "During a military operation, people become disabled. These are young people who could be of great use to our country." The local deputy added: "We demand an immediate withdrawal of the Russian troops." His appeal was backed by lawmaker Leonid Vasyukevich, who warned: "If our country does not halt the military operation then there will be even more orphans in our country." Their remarks followed the surprising condemnation of the war by Boris Bondarev, a career diplomat posted to the Russian mission to the UN in Geneva, on Wednesday. Through a letter in which he wrote he was "ashamed" of his country and called the invasion a "disaster", he became the highest-level Russian diplomat to denounce Moscow's assaults.

More at link.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 30, 2022, 01:46:43 am
The battle for Severodonetsk

  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUfSuAJkLgU)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 30, 2022, 02:46:58 pm
Steelworks prisoners from Mariupol 'are being tortured with pliers, electrocuted and strangled' after being captured by Russian forces

    The French and German presidents urged Putin to return 2,500 prisoners of war
    Azov Battalion soldiers defended Mariupol steelworks for weeks despite barrage
    Now they're reportedly being tortured with pliers and electric shocks by captors
    It came as Ukrainian forces faced artillery in east and Odesa blockade drags on

By Andy Jehring For The Daily Mail

Published: 20:17 EDT, 29 May 2022 | Updated: 10:43 EDT, 30 May 2022

European leaders have urged Vladimir Putin to release Azov prisoners amid reports that they have been tortured with ‘special cruelty’.

French president Emmanuel Macron and his German counterpart Olaf Scholz demanded the safe return of the 2,500 Azov fighters over the weekend.

They also called for an end to the blockade of Odesa, as well as direct talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Saturday as details of the 80-minute call emerged.

more
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10866563/Steelworks-prisoners-tortured-pliers-electrocuted-strangled-captors.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 30, 2022, 02:51:09 pm
Steelworks prisoners from Mariupol 'are being tortured with pliers, electrocuted and strangled' after being captured by Russian forces

    The French and German presidents urged Putin to return 2,500 prisoners of war
    Azov Battalion soldiers defended Mariupol steelworks for weeks despite barrage
    Now they're reportedly being tortured with pliers and electric shocks by captors
    It came as Ukrainian forces faced artillery in east and Odesa blockade drags on

By Andy Jehring For The Daily Mail

Published: 20:17 EDT, 29 May 2022 | Updated: 10:43 EDT, 30 May 2022

European leaders have urged Vladimir Putin to release Azov prisoners amid reports that they have been tortured with ‘special cruelty’.

French president Emmanuel Macron and his German counterpart Olaf Scholz demanded the safe return of the 2,500 Azov fighters over the weekend.

They also called for an end to the blockade of Odesa, as well as direct talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Saturday as details of the 80-minute call emerged.

more
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10866563/Steelworks-prisoners-tortured-pliers-electrocuted-strangled-captors.html
Twenty-one roses. Look it up.

Sorry, you won't find he answer on google. Not for this variant: it is a torture.
Each rose involves peeling the meat off an appendage in 'petals'.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on May 30, 2022, 03:12:45 pm
Steelworks prisoners from Mariupol 'are being tortured with pliers, electrocuted and strangled' after being captured by Russian forces

    The French and German presidents urged Putin to return 2,500 prisoners of war
    Azov Battalion soldiers defended Mariupol steelworks for weeks despite barrage
    Now they're reportedly being tortured with pliers and electric shocks by captors
    It came as Ukrainian forces faced artillery in east and Odesa blockade drags on

By Andy Jehring For The Daily Mail

Published: 20:17 EDT, 29 May 2022 | Updated: 10:43 EDT, 30 May 2022

European leaders have urged Vladimir Putin to release Azov prisoners amid reports that they have been tortured with ‘special cruelty’.

French president Emmanuel Macron and his German counterpart Olaf Scholz demanded the safe return of the 2,500 Azov fighters over the weekend.

They also called for an end to the blockade of Odesa, as well as direct talks with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky on Saturday as details of the 80-minute call emerged.

more
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10866563/Steelworks-prisoners-tortured-pliers-electrocuted-strangled-captors.html

Is anyone surprised that a country that invades a neighbor without provocation, steals foodstuffs, blockades ports so other countries can't get foodstuffs, uses thermobaric bombs, murders innocent civilians and bombs non military targets would torture prisoners.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on May 30, 2022, 05:32:20 pm
May 30, 2022 10:54am EDT
Biden says US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia
There had been concerns that sending system to Ukraine could be seen as escalatory by Russia
By Adam Shaw | Fox News

    President Biden on Monday said the United States will not send rocket systems to Ukraine that could potentially reach into Russia, after reports that the administration was preparing to send long-range systems to the besieged European ally.

Multiple outlets had reported that the administration was leaning toward sending advanced long-range rocket systems to Ukraine, which is currently fending off an invasion from Moscow -- and to which the U.S. is providing significant economic and military support.

Biden was asked about the potential move by reporters outside the White House and said that his administration would not send Ukraine rocket systems that strike into Russia.

The Washington Post reported that the administration was mulling providing the Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), which would allow Ukrainians to fire rockets much further than they are currently able.

MLRS had reportedly been a top request from Ukrainian officials, who say they need it to stop the advance of Russian forces in the east, which has taken control of the key city of Lyman last week.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-us-ukraine-rocket-systems-reach-russia
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 30, 2022, 06:04:49 pm
Putin loses TWO more colonels in Ukraine including his ‘best paratroop commander’ as death toll among the high ranks hits 48

By Will Stewart for MailOnline
29 May 2022

Two more Russian colonels have been killed in Russia’s war in Ukraine - including the country’s 'best paratroop commander'.

Lieutenant colonel Alexander Dosyagayev, 34, was a commander of an airborne assault battalion of the 104th paratrooper regiment.

Troops from his 104th air assault regiment were reportedly in Bucha, the scene of alleged rape and torture atrocities committed by Vladimir Putin’s forces earlier in the war.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10865315/Putin-loses-TWO-colonels-Ukraine-including-best-paratroop-commander.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 30, 2022, 06:34:01 pm
Vladimir Putin 'is given three years to live by doctors' due to his 'rapidly progressing cancer', FSB spy claims

By Jacob Thorburn For Mailonline
28 May 2022

Vladimir Putin has reportedly been given warned he has just three to years to live as Russian intelligence sources become increasingly worried about their ailing leader.

An FSB officer described the Russian president's condition as a 'severe form of rapidly progressing cancer', as speculation ramped up that Putin was suffering with some form of serious illness amid the invasion of Ukraine.

The spy explained the wartime leader has 'no more than two to three years' left and he is also losing his sight, reports the Mirror.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10864599/Vladimir-Putin-three-years-live-rapidly-progressing-severe-cancer-FSB-claims.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on May 30, 2022, 08:08:25 pm
Steelworks prisoners from Mariupol 'are being tortured with pliers, electrocuted and strangled' after being captured by Russian forces
 

@mystery-ak

I am NOT making excuses for the Russians,but a wise man once noted that "Truth is the first causality of war."

I am NOT trying to claim this has not happened,but my GUESS is that it may have happened at ONE place ONE time,so the Ukrainians are trying to gain sympathy and more foreign aid by IMPLYING it happens often,everywhere.

Propaganda is just another tool of war,and all sides use it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 31, 2022, 12:20:52 am
Russia's army could COLLAPSE amid huge losses of more than 30,000 troops - which Putin believes is a 'price worth paying' for victory in Ukraine, confidential UK report says

By Chris Jewers For Mailonline
30 May 2022

Russia's army could collapse amid huge losses of more than 30,000 troops in Ukraine, according to a confidential UK report that emerged on Monday.

While Moscow's latest estimated troop losses make grim reading for President Vladimir Putin, the report claims he sees them as a 'price worth paying' for victory.

However, the new report - a secretive analysis of Putin's brutal invasion seen by The Mirror - claims that the losses could be too great for his soldiers, amid other reports that Russian morale is low.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10869009/Russian-army-COLLAPSE-amid-huge-losses-30-000-troops-confidential-UK-report-says.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 31, 2022, 03:17:14 pm
Two Russian colonels call Putin a 'motherf***er' and Sergei Shoigu a 'totally incompetent layman' while hinting at heavy casualties in phone call 'intercepted' by Ukrainian security services

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
31 May 2022

Two serving Russian colonels have been 'intercepted' making blistering criticisms of Vladimir Putin and his defence minister Sergei Shoigu over the failing war with Ukraine.

Their outbursts in a private voice call - allegedly bugged by the Kyiv secret services - show deep dissent among the high ranks.

The expletive-laden call blames Putin for incompetence in not bombing the Ukrainian parliament and other key sites.

Shoigu - who did not rise though the ranks - is dismissed as incompetent in military affairs.

They hint at devastating losses on the Russian side in Ukraine, which have not been officially acknowledged.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10871089/Two-Russian-colonels-call-Sergei-Shoigu-totally-incompetent-layman-intercepted-phone-call.html

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on May 31, 2022, 06:42:13 pm
Russia spilts strategic Ukrainian city of Severodonetsk ‘in half’

By Ben Kesslen
May 31, 2022

Russian forces continued their merciless attack on the eastern Ukrainian city of Severodonetsk on Tuesday, in a battle that the local mayor said has split the bombed-out Donbas town “in half.”

Severodonetsk, once home to a little more than 100,000 people, has essentially been divided down the middle, with Russians controlling between a third and a half of the city.

“Unfortunately … the city has been split in half. But at the same time the city still defends itself. It is still Ukrainian,” Mayor Oleksandr Stryuk said.

Stryuk said heavy fighting is ongoing and artillery assaults continue to threaten the lives of an estimated 13,000 Ukrainians trapped in the city.

“The situation is very serious and the city is essentially being destroyed ruthlessly block by block,” he said.

Evacuation efforts have been hampered by the relentless bombardment, which has turned the city into a wasteland where residents have no electricity, water or cell service, he said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/05/31/russia-spilts-ukrainian-city-of-severodonetsk-in-half/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 31, 2022, 10:53:07 pm
City divided and refugee spots her looted goods

3 hours ago

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/44D3/production/_124991671_severoafp.jpg)

The 97th day of the war saw Ukrainian and Russian forces battling for control of the eastern city of Severodonetsk, which is said to be divided between the two sides.


Up to 15,000 people may still be trapped there, Luhansk regional governor Serhiy Haidai said.

Both sides are suffering heavy casualties and the Ukrainian command may decide a tactical retreat would better serve their medium-term interests.

"As soon as we can get more weapons, particularly those artillery weapons which are being shipped right now from the West, we can go to counter-offensive," Ukrainian former Defence Minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk told the BBC.  .  .


'That's my boiler!'

A Ukrainian refugee in the UK says she got a surprise when her husband showed her a photo of a Russian tank - with some of her household items sitting on top.

Alina Koreniuk says the box in the photo contains a new boiler she planned to install before the war started - along with some new sheets.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61650698



So when Putin said "Free Luhansk", he meant 'free Luhansk of their possessions and valuables.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on May 31, 2022, 10:55:46 pm
Just busy 'liberating' whatever they can get their hands on...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on May 31, 2022, 11:00:10 pm
'I watched from afar Russia’s latest merciless assault on Severodonetsk'

Quentin Sommerville - BBC, Lysychansk, Ukraine  |  1 day ago

Russian forces have entered the city of Severodonetsk, as they continue their attempts to capture the eastern Donbas region of Ukraine. One of the region's governors says that the bombardment of the industrial centre is so intense that they have given up counting the casualties.


Just days ago, I watched from a rooftop in Lysychansk as, on the horizon, its twin city of Severodonetsk was being bombed indiscriminately. Shells were landing every minute on its length and breath. Severodonetsk was burning.

Lysychansk itself has been drained of life. A few people still go out on the streets, but they are mostly deserted. Artillery fire is a regular threat. The air carried on the summer breeze is gritty with dust from smoke and pulverised buildings.

Having failed to conquer all of Ukraine, Russian forces are now targeting Donbas - made up of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. If Severodonetsk and Lysychansk fall, the whole of Luhansk would be occupied.

Here, Russia isn't fighting a campaign of attrition, it's waging a war of oblivion. And, for the moment on this front, it is winning.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61634050
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on May 31, 2022, 11:19:08 pm
Gee, yesterday I was actually breathing a slight sigh of relief thinking that the Idiot in Chief was actually doing the right thing....obviously not so.

Biden admin to send Multiple Launch Rocket Systems to Ukraine in $40B aid package

President Biden previously said the US would not send longer-range missiles to Ukraine

The Biden administration is expected this week to approve sending shorter-range rocket missiles to Ukraine as part of the $40 billion aid package for the besieged country.

The Multiple Launch Rocket System (MLRS), known as HIMARS (High Mobility Rockets System), have a range of 83 to 185 miles based on the kind of artillery rockets and mobile platform being used. There are also wheeled versions of the MLRS that fire 6 missiles and there are tracked vehicles that fire 12 missiles...............

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-send-mlrs-missiles-ukraine-russia-war
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on May 31, 2022, 11:32:35 pm
It is odd how Russia continues the propaganda, "We are here to SAVE the people, and to LIBERATE our friends!" Meanwhile Russia is slaughtering, kidnapping, and raping, by the hundreds of thousands and conducting a scorched Earth campaign to literally erase entire cities and villages from the face of the Earth. If this is Russia's idea of 'helping' or 'saving' people, imagine what they would do if they intended a purposeful calculated genocide. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 01, 2022, 01:05:41 am
It is odd how Russia continues the propaganda, "We are here to SAVE the people, and to LIBERATE our friends!"

This is actually much more true than not.  The people of Donbas consider themselves independent from Kiev (as Russia formally recognized in February), they speak Russian, hold Russian passports and have considered Russia to be their liberator since WWII.

Quote
Meanwhile Russia is slaughtering, kidnapping, and raping, by the hundreds of thousands and conducting a scorched Earth campaign to literally erase entire cities and villages from the face of the Earth. If this is Russia's idea of 'helping' or 'saving' people, imagine what they would do if they intended a purposeful calculated genocide.

Take these "reports" with a shovel full of salt.  The people of Donbas have a close relationship with Russia and vice versa.  Their roots are intertwined; and Putin's MO is, believe it or not, to be protective. For instance, Israel periodically drops bombs in Syria and Iran and Russia looks the other way.  Hell, the IDF shot down a Russian jet and other than not taking Bibi's calls for a week, Putin took no retaliatory action.  (They did agree to stricter rules of engagement.)  Why the special accommodations for Israel?  Putin, by his own admission, is protective of the large Russian immigrant community living there.

If there is "slaughtering, kidnapping, and raping" of civilians going on, the more likely perp is the Kiev-trained and Kiev-funded Azov Battalion.  They've been fine-tuning their terror there for eight years.

This battalion, along with the newly arrived Western Ukraine units, are the targets of Russia's offensive in the region;  not the people.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 01:39:37 am
Putin's MO is, believe it or not, to be protective

Putin being protective of the people of Severodonetsk.

(https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_new_voice_of_ukraine_articles_294/e88056a5af31a23728ed5a30872e828c)

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 01:42:21 am
Putin being protective of the people of Mariupol

(https://www.peoplesproject.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/MAIN17.jpg)

(https://img.tsn.ua/cached/593/tsn-45ddb1c1da8bc78232f746637fde253d/thumbs/1200x630/7b/1e/d6319a53a06f41da1f09f6538ff01e7b.jpeg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 01, 2022, 01:44:59 am
Jesse Kelly
@JesseKellyDC

The most dangerous thing happening in the world today is Western governments turning against their own citizens. Nothing else comes close.

11:45 AM · May 31, 2022   Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 01:51:37 am
Russian indiscriminate shelling of Severodonetsk

(https://static.nv.ua/shared/system/Article/posters/002/512/877/900x450/4d6aea4e7a07204eda4c35e2bc581a16.jpg?q=85&stamp=20220524115156)

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/1/7/17a0a46-sever.jpg)

More Russian shelling in Luhansk

(https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/628e05b02100005db3508dd0.jpeg)

(https://uacrisis.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/photo_2022-05-23_14-04-00.jpg)


It takes a really sick individual to characterize Putin as some kind of protector after he has killed so many civilians, stolen their food, and implemented a scorched earth policy with indiscriminate missile and artillery shelling of Ukrainian cities.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 01, 2022, 01:51:54 am
Putin being protective of the people of Severodonetsk.

You're posting selective pictures of war for their emotional propaganda value.

Try engaging the frontal lobe and allow the limbic lobe a much needed rest.




Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 01:53:41 am
You're posting pictures of war for their emotional propaganda value.

I am showing pictures of Luhansk to show the results of current Russian strategy.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 02:05:22 am
Putin's protection:


https://twitter.com/EmineDzheppar/status/1531717913798918146
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 02:07:11 am
Severodonetsk population before Russian invasion - 100,000
Severodonetsk population today - 15,000
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 01, 2022, 02:23:24 am
Russian indiscriminate shelling of Severodonetsk

(https://static.nv.ua/shared/system/Article/posters/002/512/877/900x450/4d6aea4e7a07204eda4c35e2bc581a16.jpg?q=85&stamp=20220524115156)

(https://img.pravda.com/images/doc/1/7/17a0a46-sever.jpg)

More Russian shelling in Luhansk

(https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/628e05b02100005db3508dd0.jpeg)

(https://uacrisis.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/photo_2022-05-23_14-04-00.jpg)


It takes a really sick individual to characterize Putin as some kind of protector after he has killed so many civilians, stolen their food, and implemented a scorched earth policy with indiscriminate missile and artillery shelling of Ukrainian cities.

@Hoodat   @Right_in_Virginia

Even the Russian army is turning against Putin,but R_I_V is still a fan of his.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 01, 2022, 02:43:42 am
@Hoodat   @Right_in_Virginia

Even the Russian army is turning against Putin,but R_I_V is still a fan of his.

I'm no one's fan @sneakypete   Again, there are no good guys in the leadership of this war and we have no dog in yet another border conflict in the Ukraine.  But the pro-Ukraine propaganda being tossed about .... without a single question or raised eyebrow..... is simply stunning. 

I suppose the accepted mantra is it's perfectly fine, even exciting, to further bankrupt the US to keep the fight going to the last Ukranian --- as long as they're kiling Russians on our behalf.

This is far from our finest hour, Pete.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 02:49:59 am
Pro-Ukraine propaganda? 

(https://www.gulftoday.ae/-/media/gulf-today/images/articles/news/2022/5/28/ukraine-donbas-may28-main2-750.ashx?la=en&hash=DE3A084BC47A8A4497CDFBFAF06064A8)

(https://union-trader.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/Ukrainian-defenders-hold-out-in-Donbas-city-788x525.jpg)

(https://www.en.etemaaddaily.com/pages/world/international/4020donbas.jpg)

(https://www.baystpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/ukraine-donbas-russia-may-31.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 01, 2022, 02:53:45 am
Gee, yesterday I was actually breathing a slight sigh of relief thinking that the Idiot in Chief was actually doing the right thing....obviously not so.

Biden admin to send Multiple Launch Rocket Systems to Ukraine in $40B aid package

President Biden previously said the US would not send longer-range missiles to Ukraine

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Did they pinky-swear?

Quote
Josh Lederman
@JoshNBCNews
 · 2h

Senior Biden admin official tells reporters tonight that Ukraine has provided assurances it won't use the new longer range rockets the US will provide them against targets inside Russia

8:46 PM · May 31, 2022·Twitter Web App

@libertybele
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 01, 2022, 03:35:23 am
Putin’s decree “legalizes” abduction of children from Ukraine - MFA

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3496766-putins-decree-legalizes-abduction-of-children-from-ukraine-mfa.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3496766-putins-decree-legalizes-abduction-of-children-from-ukraine-mfa.html)

Quote
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine considers Vladimir Putin's decree that streamlines the process of granting citizenship to Ukrainian orphans as an attempt by the Kremlin to legalize the illegal displacement of Ukrainian children to Russia.

That’s according to a statement issued by the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry, Ukrinform reports.

"We consider the decree of the President of the Russian Federation to simplify the admission of Ukrainian orphans or those left without parental care to Russian citizenship as an attempt by the Kremlin to legalize the illegal movement of Ukrainian children from the Ukrainian territories temporarily occupied by the Russian army to Russia. By his decree, Vladimir Putin actually legalized the abduction of children from the territory of Ukraine," the Foreign Ministry stressed.

The diplomats noted that Russia's actions grossly violate the 1949 Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, which obliges the occupying state not to change the citizenship status of children, and the 1989 UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. Ukraine’s Foreign Ministry believes that Russia's actions can also be qualified as forcible transfer of children from one human group to another under international law.

As of May 26, Russia has deported more than 238,000 Ukrainian children to its territory.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 01, 2022, 04:13:04 am
Jesse Kelly
@JesseKellyDC

The most dangerous thing happening in the world today is Western governments turning against their own citizens. Nothing else comes close.

11:45 AM · May 31, 2022   Twitter for iPhone

The US has been turning against its population since Clinton.  From the beginning of that crime spree through all Rat Presidents ever since.  And with full cooperation of the Uniparty.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 01, 2022, 08:17:48 am
Putin’s decree “legalizes” abduction of children from Ukraine - MFA

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3496766-putins-decree-legalizes-abduction-of-children-from-ukraine-mfa.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3496766-putins-decree-legalizes-abduction-of-children-from-ukraine-mfa.html)

@Elderberry

Well,he needs to replace all the Russian soldiers KIA in Ukraine,and Russian women just aren't having enough babies to do it the old-fashioned way.

Think "fresh cannon fodder".
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on June 01, 2022, 09:27:58 am
You're posting selective pictures of war for their emotional propaganda value.

Try engaging the frontal lobe and allow the limbic lobe a much needed rest.

 :laugh:    :beer:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 01, 2022, 11:05:03 am
You're posting selective pictures of war for their emotional propaganda value.

Try engaging the frontal lobe and allow the limbic lobe a much needed rest.






You might try a little bit of that yourself.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 01, 2022, 11:09:20 am
You might try a little bit of that yourself.
Amazing how a thousand guys (assuming full Battalion strength) managed to hold off the Russians this long, despite losses. Sarcastically speaking, that would give that whole supremacy idea some traction. In reality, what was a small unit is even smaller, and the vast bulk of the fighting for Ukraine is being conducted by people not in that unit.
But...facts, and all that..
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 01, 2022, 11:12:22 am
Has Putin purged his top commander? General leading the Ukraine war 'hasn't been seen in two weeks' amid rumours he is no longer in charge

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
1 June 2022

Russia's top commander in Ukraine hasn't been seen for two weeks and may no longer be in charge of the invasion, officials have claimed.

General Aleksandr Dvornikov, an accused war criminal who helped Assad gas his own people in Syria, was tapped by Vladimir Putin to lead his armies in April, after he was forced to abandon a blundering assault on Kyiv and refocus on Donbas.

But American officials say General Dvornikov has not been seen for at least two weeks, leading to rumours that he has been purged by Putin.

If confirmed, General Dvornikov will join Admiral Igor Osipov, commander of the Black Sea fleet, and Lieutenant-General Sergei Kisel, leader of the 1st Guards Tank Army, who Western official say have been sacked over battlefield failings.

General Valery Gerasimov, chief of Russia's general staff, is also believed to be missing with Ukraine saying he has been suspended while Putin decides his fate.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10874323/Ukraine-war-Russias-commander-not-seen-two-weeks.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 01, 2022, 11:29:35 am
You might try a little bit of that yourself.

 :silly:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 01, 2022, 11:52:21 am
Amazing how a thousand guys (assuming full Battalion strength) managed to hold off the Russians this long, despite losses. Sarcastically speaking, that would give that whole supremacy idea some traction. In reality, what was a small unit is even smaller, and the vast bulk of the fighting for Ukraine is being conducted by people not in that unit.
But...facts, and all that..

Speaking of facts,  the Azov Battallion--- even prior to its recent reinforcement from the Western Ukrainian units--- rained terror and death on Donbas for eight years.   Not until this year did they face any real military opposition----and their free-for-all finally began to end with their en masse surrender @Smokin Joe

While I admit I don't understand the embrace and  passionate defense of this group of animals, I do know neither will change the reality of their history.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 01, 2022, 12:02:57 pm
Speaking of facts,  the Azov Battallion--- even prior to its recent reinforcement from the Western Ukrainian units--- rained terror and death on Donbas for eight years.   Not until this year did they face any real military opposition----and their free-for-all finally began to end with their en masse surrender @Smokin Joe

While I admit I don't understand the embrace and  passionate defense of this group of animals, I do know neither will change the reality of their history.
I am neither embracing nor passionately defending this particular group.
That said, 1000 men (exaggerated starting battalion strength) cannot be everywhere at once, and only constituted a small fraction of those defending their homeland from the Russian invasion.
Yet you never fail to conflate all those defenders with the Azov Battalion, who likely were either killed or captured at Mariupol, in effect, calling EVERY Ukrainian a Nazi. Which leaves you defending the Communists, because, like it or not, this is a dichotomy. Your posts have been anything but neutral; you have taken a side, that of the invaders.

I was just pointing out that, with attrition, considering Mariupol, they are probably at less than 1/10 strength, if that (100 men or less). I might also have the temerity to mention that the horrors and destruction wreaked on the region by the Russians surely outclass anything the Azov bunch did, simply because there were a lot more buildings standing and live civilians there before the Russians invaded, kidnapped people and moved them to "safety" (children and parents separated, of course, a model we have seen before).

Yet you consistently mention Azov as if they were the only Ukrainian fighters in this, rather than a small minority of the Ukrainians fighting to repel a murderous and destructive invader from their homeland. For the benefit of others reading this post, I feel it necessary to point out this fact, that at their most, "Nazis" are a very small part of the overall contingent defending Ukraine from the Russian invasion.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 12:11:52 pm
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 31

Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan  |  May 31, 5:45pm ET

Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue. 
Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains.  .  .

Russian forces are likely attempting to exploit Belarusian equipment reserves to compensate for heavy material losses in Ukraine.  The Ukrainian General Staff reported on May 31 that Belarusian forces are moving tanks and infantry fighting vehicles from storage facilities in Belarus to Russia to replenish combat losses. This report corroborates previous reporting that Russian forces have largely exhausted their own reserves  .  .

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-31
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 12:13:12 pm
Speaking of facts,  the Azov Battallion--- even prior to its recent reinforcement from the Western Ukrainian units--- rained terror and death on Donbas for eight years.

The Azov Battalion ceased to exist in Jan 2015.  But then you knew that already.  Yet here you are again pushing the same lie.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 01, 2022, 12:28:08 pm
February 2015 - The Battle of Shyrokyne


In Jan 2015, Russian-supported separatists began indiscriminate shelling of Mariupol using Russian artillery shells and mortars supplied by Russia to kill Ukrainian civilians.  January 2015 - Russia killing Ukrainian civilians.  See a pattern here?

Anyway, the newly formed Ukrainian National Guard unit - the Azov Regiment, launched a counter-attack against the Russian DPR forces, pushing them away from Mariupol.  The offensive lasted from Feb through July when the Russian DPR forces withdrew from Shyrokyne.

The Azov 'Regiment' had been incorporated into the Ukrainian National Guard in Jan 2015 after all political activists had been removed, thus bringing an end to the Azov 'Battalion'.  This information has been posted already, but at least one poster here continues to parrot the same false Russian propaganda we have been hearing for the last eight years.  Again, it was the Russian-supported DPR that was shelling civilians in Mariupol.  And it was the Ukrainian National Guard unit, the Azov Regiment, that put an end to it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 01, 2022, 12:42:12 pm
Don’t expect the EU to ban Russian gas any time soon
Politico, May 31, 2022

After a month of haggling over how to ban Russian oil, only to get a watered-down compromise that lets pipelines keep flowing, EU sanctions on Vladimir Putin's energy exports have reached "the end of the road."

That was the assessment of Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo on Tuesday, summing up the tortuous negotiations which ended in a fudge that let Hungary off the hook.

The logical next step in tightening pressure on Moscow would be to ban Russian gas. But for De Croo and others, that would risk hurting the EU more than Putin.

More:  https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ban-sanctions-russian-gas-oil-orban-ukraine-war
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 01, 2022, 12:49:24 pm
Don’t expect the EU to ban Russian gas any time soon
Politico, May 31, 2022

After a month of haggling over how to ban Russian oil, only to get a watered-down compromise that lets pipelines keep flowing, EU sanctions on Vladimir Putin's energy exports have reached "the end of the road."

That was the assessment of Belgian Prime Minister Alexander De Croo on Tuesday, summing up the tortuous negotiations which ended in a fudge that let Hungary off the hook.

The logical next step in tightening pressure on Moscow would be to ban Russian gas. But for De Croo and others, that would risk hurting the EU more than Putin.

More:  https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-ban-sanctions-russian-gas-oil-orban-ukraine-war
I.O.W., the EU has become energy dependent on Russian supplies.

Let that be a warning...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 01, 2022, 05:49:32 pm
Russia says US 'adding fuel to fire' with weapons for Ukraine

Ukraine's about to acquire its most powerful ground combat weapons yet.

The US-supplied high mobility artillery rocket system (HIMARS) has a range of around 50 miles (80km).

That’s enough to allow Ukraine to match Russia’s long-range artillery, which has wreaked such devastation in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region in recent weeks.

But the system is arriving very late in the day, with Russian forces having already driven the defending Ukrainians out of much of the east of the country.

If Ukraine's to retake that territory it will need to go on the offensive, which would require a major shift in strategy.

There's an added problem here and that’s the risk of escalation. Washington was initially wary of sending any heavy weapons for fear of provoking Moscow.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61656289
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 01, 2022, 07:54:31 pm
I.O.W., the EU has become energy dependent on Russian supplies.

Let that be a warning...

Exactly.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 01, 2022, 09:15:11 pm
Putin loses ANOTHER colonel in Ukraine: Close ally of Chechen warlord Ramzan Kadyrov is latest to be killed as death toll among high ranks hits 49

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
1 June 2022

Russia has lost another colonel in Ukraine as Vladimir Putin's top brass continues to suffer heavy casualties in his miscalculated invasion.

Lieutenant-colonel Zaur Dimayev, deputy commander of the 4th battalion of the Akhmat Kadyrov special forces regiment, was killed Tuesday by an artillery barrage in the Donbas region, Telegram channel Baza reported today.

Dimayev was riding in a military SUV through the village of Kamyshevakha, Luhansk province, when it was hit by a Ukrainian shell, according to the site - which is thought to have links to Russian intelligence.

It brings the total number of Russian colonels killed fighting to at least 49, though no official tally has been published by either Kyiv or Moscow.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10874497/Ukraine-war-Putin-loses-colonel.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on June 02, 2022, 12:21:59 am
 Ukraine flees strategic Donbas region after suffering big losses against Russians
By Ben Kesslen   
June 1, 2022 5:20pm

Ukraine began evacuating its soldiers on Wednesday from the embattled city of Severodonetsk, the strategic eastern city that Russia has been battling to take over in a bid to control the Donbas region, local officials said.

Ukrainian forces retreated after suffering big losses in the city that’s now about 80% controlled by Russian forces, Luhansk regional governor Serhiy Haidai said Wednesday.

“This is not a betrayal,” Haidai wrote in a post on Telegram.

The governor said the retreat across the river to Severodonetsk’s twin city, Lysychansk, was part of their strategy to move to “more advantageous, pre-prepared positions” as they wait for shipments of Western weapons.

Haidai said that as of Wednesday, about 70% of the city was under Russian control, while about 10 to 15% was in”a kind of grey zone” and the rest held by the Ukrainian defenders.

Ukrainian military spokesman Oleksandr Motuzyanyk, however, declined to give an assessment as to how much of the city had fallen to Moscow.

more
https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/ukraine-flees-strategic-donbas-region-city-as-russians-win-gains/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 02, 2022, 03:18:21 am
RUSSIAN OFFENSIVE CAMPAIGN ASSESSMENT, MAY 31

Kateryna Stepanenko, Karolina Hird, and Frederick W. Kagan  |  May 31, 5:45pm ET

Moscow’s concentration on seizing Severodonetsk and Donbas generally continues to create vulnerabilities for Russia in Ukraine’s vital Kherson Oblast, where Ukrainian counter-offensives continue.
Kherson is critical terrain because it is the only area of Ukraine in which Russian forces hold ground on the west bank of the Dnipro River. If Russia is able to retain a strong lodgment in Kherson when fighting stops it will be in a very strong position from which to launch a future invasion. If Ukraine regains Kherson, on the other hand, Ukraine will be in a much stronger position to defend itself against future Russian attack. This strategic calculus should in principle lead Russia to allocate sufficient combat power to hold Kherson. But Russian President Vladimir Putin has chosen instead to concentrate all the forces and resources that can be scraped together in a desperate and bloody push to seize areas of eastern Ukraine that will give him largely symbolic gains.  .  .

Russian forces are likely attempting to exploit Belarusian equipment reserves to compensate for heavy material losses in Ukraine.  The Ukrainian General Staff reported on May 31 that Belarusian forces are moving tanks and infantry fighting vehicles from storage facilities in Belarus to Russia to replenish combat losses. This report corroborates previous reporting that Russian forces have largely exhausted their own reserves  .  .

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-31

It only creates vulnerabilities if Kherson and then Odessa are the goal.

Once the Ukrainians stopped the attempt to take Kyiv and pushed the invaders back I think the goal of Russia has been the oil and gas fields that are in Donbas and due north along the border and in the Sea of Azov. I suspect that the Russians will pull back from Kherson and push for a negotiated peace now that they have crippled Ukraine by destroying their industrial base and Ukraine has lost control over their largest oil and gas reserves. Europe might cave to Russia if they haven't succeeded yet in securing oil and gas from other sources.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 02, 2022, 03:39:34 am
Russia says US 'adding fuel to fire' with weapons for Ukraine

Ukraine's about to acquire its most powerful ground combat weapons yet.

The US-supplied high mobility artillery rocket system (HIMARS) has a range of around 50 miles (80km).

That’s enough to allow Ukraine to match Russia’s long-range artillery, which has wreaked such devastation in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region in recent weeks.

But the system is arriving very late in the day, with Russian forces having already driven the defending Ukrainians out of much of the east of the country.

If Ukraine's to retake that territory it will need to go on the offensive, which would require a major shift in strategy.

There's an added problem here and that’s the risk of escalation. Washington was initially wary of sending any heavy weapons for fear of provoking Moscow.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61656289

I suspect your old enough to have lived through the 80's and Reagan confronting the evil empire. If so you should have learned the lesson Reagan taught all of us. Reagan was constantly being threatened by the evil empire that he was going to cause a war if he wouldn't back off his goal of building a missile defense. Reagan not only refused to do what the evil empire wanted he doubled down. Reagan won the cold war and ended the threat of global thermal nuclear war.

Now here we are 40 years later and the evil empire has returned, but this time it is a wing of conservatism that is saying we should do what the evil empire wants and let them dominate and subjugate people that Reagan freed from their predessor.

Some learn the lessons of history and some don't.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 02, 2022, 09:04:09 am
I suspect your old enough to have lived through the 80's and Reagan confronting the evil empire. If so you should have learned the lesson Reagan taught all of us. Reagan was constantly being threatened by the evil empire that he was going to cause a war if he wouldn't back off his goal of building a missile defense. Reagan not only refused to do what the evil empire wanted he doubled down. Reagan won the cold war and ended the threat of global thermal nuclear war.

Now here we are 40 years later and the evil empire has returned, but this time it is a wing of conservatism that is saying we should do what the evil empire wants and let them dominate and subjugate people that Reagan freed from their predessor.

Some learn the lessons of history and some don't.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on June 02, 2022, 12:46:38 pm
I am neither embracing nor passionately defending this particular group.
That said, 1000 men (exaggerated starting battalion strength) cannot be everywhere at once, and only constituted a small fraction of those defending their homeland from the Russian invasion.
Yet you never fail to conflate all those defenders with the Azov Battalion, who likely were either killed or captured at Mariupol, in effect, calling EVERY Ukrainian a Nazi. Which leaves you defending the Communists, because, like it or not, this is a dichotomy. Your posts have been anything but neutral; you have taken a side, that of the invaders.

I was just pointing out that, with attrition, considering Mariupol, they are probably at less than 1/10 strength, if that (100 men or less). I might also have the temerity to mention that the horrors and destruction wreaked on the region by the Russians surely outclass anything the Azov bunch did, simply because there were a lot more buildings standing and live civilians there before the Russians invaded, kidnapped people and moved them to "safety" (children and parents separated, of course, a model we have seen before).

Yet you consistently mention Azov as if they were the only Ukrainian fighters in this, rather than a small minority of the Ukrainians fighting to repel a murderous and destructive invader from their homeland. For the benefit of others reading this post, I feel it necessary to point out this fact, that at their most, "Nazis" are a very small part of the overall contingent defending Ukraine from the Russian invasion.

QFT
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 02, 2022, 10:41:49 pm
Allegation:  Ukrainians are selling US Javelins on foreign shadow trading platforms for $30,000 each.
https://twitter.com/fox_pursuit/status/1532487889661186049
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 02, 2022, 10:52:06 pm
Allegation:  Ukrainians are selling US Javelins on foreign shadow trading platforms for $30,000 each.

China would pay 20 times that, easily.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 02, 2022, 10:55:13 pm
China would pay 20 times that, easily.
I think the point is that stuff we taxpayers are giving Ukraine is being sold on a black market, and not used to fight their war. I don't know.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 02, 2022, 11:18:28 pm
I think the point is that stuff we taxpayers are giving Ukraine is being sold on a black market, and not used to fight their war. I don't know.  :shrug:

Anyone can advertise something for sale.  That doesn't mean it is available.  The price seems low.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 02, 2022, 11:21:28 pm
Allegation:  the Russians are eating live any Ukrainian babies they find.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on June 02, 2022, 11:39:17 pm
Allegation:  the Russians are eating live any Ukrainian babies they find.

 :silly:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 02, 2022, 11:53:27 pm
:silly:

Exactly. Just as laughable. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 03, 2022, 12:21:04 am
The truth about Ukraine’s far-Right militias

UnHerd by Aris Roussinos 6/3/2022

https://unherd.com/2022/06/the-truth-about-ukraines-nazi-militias/ (https://unherd.com/2022/06/the-truth-about-ukraines-nazi-militias/)

Russia has empowered dangerous factions

Quote
Like any war, but perhaps more than most, the war in Ukraine has seen a bewildering barrage of claims and counter-claims made by the online supporters of each side. Truth, partial truths and outright lies compete for dominance in the media narrative. Vladimir Putin’s claim that Russia invaded Ukraine to “de-Nazify” the country is surely one of the clearest examples. The Russian claim that the Maidan revolution of 2014 was a “fascist coup” and that Ukraine is a Nazi state has been used for years by Putin and his supporters to justify his occupation of Crimea and support for Russian-speaking separatists in the country’s east, winning many online adherents.

But the Russian claim is false: Ukraine is a genuine liberal-democratic state, though an imperfect one, with free elections that produce significant changes of power, including the election, in 2019, of the liberal-populist reformer, Volodymyr Zelenskyy. Ukraine is, unequivocally, not a Nazi state: the Russian casus belli is a lie. And yet, there is a danger that the understandable desire by Ukrainian and Western commentators not to provide ammunition for Russian propaganda has led to an over-correction — and one that may not ultimately serve Ukraine’s best interests.

During one recent news bulletin on BBC Radio 4, the correspondent referred to “Putin’s baseless claim that the Ukrainian state supports Nazis”. This is, itself, disinformation: it is an observable fact, which the BBC itself has previously reported on accurately and well, that the Ukrainian state has, since 2014, provided funding, weapons and other forms of support to extreme Right-wing militias, including neo-Nazi ones. This is not a new or controversial observation. Back in 2019, I spent time in Ukraine interviewing senior figures in the constellation of state-backed extreme Right-wing groups for Harper’s magazine; they were all quite open about their ideology and plans for the future.

More at link.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 03, 2022, 01:46:22 am
Allegation:  the Russians are eating live any Ukrainian babies they find.
Which side is pulling the wings off flies in this battle of PR departments?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 03, 2022, 04:12:06 am
DNR fighters on Kherson front appeal to Putin for return to Donetsk.

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1aPxFky8wM)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 03, 2022, 10:50:08 am
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald

Before Congress approved Biden's extra $40b for the war in Ukraine - with all Dems voting YES - @RandPaul was widely called a Kremlin agent for urging basic oversight and accountability.

Now, of course, nobody knows where the money or weapons are going:

Quote
(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1532278711847895040/mTxPXnLg?format=jpg&name=small)
Pentagon vs. Congress tension builds over monitoring billions in Ukraine aid
https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/02/congress-pentagon-ukraine-aid-oversight-00036463

8:07 PM · Jun 2, 2022   Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 03, 2022, 10:56:09 am
Aaron Maté
@aaronjmate

Interpol chief warns that the weapons flooding into Ukraine will create "an influx of weapons in Europe and beyond.  We should be alarmed and we have to expect these weapons to be trafficked not only to neighbouring countries but to other continents."

Quote
(https://pbs.twimg.com/card_img/1532355644765765639/JNhRQL9Z?format=jpg&name=small)
Arms sent to Ukraine will end up in criminal hands, says Interpol chief
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/02/ukraine-weapons-end-up-criminal-hands-says-interpol-chief-jurgen-stock

8:33 PM · Jun 2, 2022  Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 03, 2022, 11:07:52 am
Glenn Greenwld
@ggreenwald

And by the way: losing track of cash and these weapons in a gigantic spending spree for war isn't a bug in Washington, but a feature: the key feature.

That's why nothing enriches the permanent DC class and empowers the Deep State more than war packages. It's why they love them.

8:11 PM · Jun 2, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2022, 12:01:48 pm
Putin's 100th day of death, destruction and shame: Russia's 'plan has failed' MoD says as Kremlin media is 'ordered not to draw attention' to gut-wrenching milestone

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
3 June 2022

It has now been one hundred days since Russian tanks rolled across the border and into neighbouring Ukraine on February 24, 2022.

A torrent of gut-wrenching images and clips have emerged since that fateful day: Civilian corpses in the streets of Bucha; a blown-up theatre in Mariupol; the chaos at a Kramatorsk train station in the wake of a Russian missile strike, to name a few.

But those images tell just a small part of the overall picture of Europe's worst armed conflict since World War II.

More than 100,000 Russian troops massed on Ukraine's borders in the days leading up to February 24, but many analysts and commentators dismissed the notion that Russia would launch a full scale invasion into its European neighbour.

Those who did predict such a conflict warned Putin's troops, superior in numbers and equipment, would sweep to victory in a matter of days.

More than three months later and Ukraine's armed forces, driven by a duty to protect their homeland and reinforced by Western supplies and weaponry, have successfully repelled Russia's soldiers from Kyiv and are still fighting their invaders fiercely throughout the Donbas. 

Russian state media, which from the beginning portrayed the conflict as a 'special military operation' designed to 'demilitarise and de-nazify' Ukraine, was asked by Putin's administration ahead of the 100th day of war 'not to propagate the theme of the operation' and 'not to draw attention to its duration', multiple sources told Russian-Latvian news organisation Meduza.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10881265/Putins-100th-day-death-destruction-shame.html

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 03, 2022, 01:04:30 pm
Quote
Today marks the 100th day of Russia's invasion of Ukraine, a campaign that began with a multipronged blitz meant to topple the government in Kyiv but which has evolved into a prolonged war of attrition  (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-government-and-politics-moscow-61ef29e1911bf2e38a19a6110e764e09)in the country's east.

After being initially repelled from capturing Ukraine's capital—an effort marred by Russian missteps (https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/intellectual-failures-behind-russias-bungled-invasion)—Russia has refocused on capturing the eastern Donbas region. Much of the area, Ukraine's primary industrial center, has been under pro-Russian separatist control since 2014.
Quote
It is a point of consensus among analysts that the initial phases of the Russian invasion of Ukraine have been a relative failure. Though Russia may still prevail in this conflict, the reasons for its blundering initial attempt are worth unpacking.

In certain regards, Russia’s failures reveal its limitations in fairly basic competencies such as logistical planning. The capability limitations of at least some Russian forces in areas such as tactical communications, as well as poor morale, certainly seem to have added to this mix. However, Russian forces have also suffered early losses due to a perplexing departure from their previous practices. The Russian army, which some have described as an artillery army with a lot of tanks, typically does not advance without substantial preparatory fires, which have been notably absent in the early stages of the conflict, along with any meaningful efforts at combined arms warfare.  ...


In recent days, analysts say Russia has begun to slowly but steadily take control  (https://nationalinterest.org/feature/russia-gaining-upper-hand-ukraine%E2%80%99s-east-202721)of key cities in the Donbas region. Western officials pledged another round of military aid, including long-range missile systems, though the weapons will take weeks (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-technology-4f8e7d017b5fd67d80fb42d23b27b3c1) to arrive.
Quote
KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — The U.S. and Germany pledged Wednesday to equip Ukraine with some of the advanced weapons it has long desired for shooting down aircraft and knocking out artillery, as Russian forces closed in on capturing a key city in the east.

Germany said it will supply Ukraine with up-to-date anti-aircraft missiles and radar systems, while the U.S. announced it will provide four sophisticated, medium-range rocket systems and ammunition.

The U.S. is trying to help Ukraine fend off the Russians without triggering a wider war in Europe. The Pentagon said it received assurances that Ukraine will not fire the new rockets into Russian territory. ...


To the south, Russia now controls the majority of Ukraine's access to the Black Sea, with the exception of the port city of Odesa. See updates on war, with maps, here (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682).

The death toll from the conflict has been hard to gauge. The United Nations has confirmed  (https://www.ohchr.org/en/news/2022/06/ukraine-civilian-casualty-update-1-june-2022)almost 4,150 civilian deaths, but believes the true count to be much higher.
This compendium is from 1440 Daily Digest, an email service you can sign up for here (https://join1440.com/).
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 03, 2022, 01:21:40 pm
Before Congress approved Biden's extra $40b for the war in Ukraine the midterm elections - with all Dems voting YES -

There, fixed it.  Weapons for Ukraine were an afterthought.  The $40 billion never was for Ukraine.  It was pure government graft.  Contractors getting rich while they funnel money back into DNC campaign coffers.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2022, 01:23:18 pm
There, fixed it.  Weapons for Ukraine were an afterthought.  The $40 billion never was for Ukraine.  It was pure government graft.  Contractors getting rich while they funnel money back into DNC campaign coffers.


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 03, 2022, 03:39:04 pm
US Engaged In "Offensive" Cyber Ops Against Russia In Ukraine: NSA Director. "We’ve conducted a series of operations across the full spectrum: offensive, defensive, [and] information operations." This includes "offensive hacking operations."
Story at Zero Hedge (https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/us-engaged-offensive-cyber-ops-against-russia-ukraine-nsa-director-admits-first)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 03, 2022, 03:48:12 pm
Aaron Maté
@aaronjmate

Interpol chief warns that the weapons flooding into Ukraine will create "an influx of weapons in Europe and beyond.  We should be alarmed and we have to expect these weapons to be trafficked not only to neighbouring countries but to other continents."

8:33 PM · Jun 2, 2022  Twitter Web App
But not a peep over 300,000 infantry battle rifles given to the Taliban...not to mention other, more potent hardware...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 03, 2022, 03:48:32 pm
Putin met with the African Union today
https://twitter.com/AUC_MoussaFaki/status/1532745658636963842
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 03, 2022, 04:44:10 pm
US Engaged In "Offensive" Cyber Ops Against Russia In Ukraine: NSA Director. "We’ve conducted a series of operations across the full spectrum: offensive, defensive, [and] information operations." This includes "offensive hacking operations."

The NSA should be fired on the spot.  This is the most secretive agency in government, and here is the director blabbing about what the US is doing to a country we are officially not in conflict with.  The sheer incompetence of this regime is stunning to watch on display multiple times each day, every day.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 03, 2022, 04:44:45 pm
But not a peep over 300,000 infantry battle rifles given to the Taliban...not to mention other, more potent hardware...

But . . . but that's different.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2022, 04:44:55 pm
The NSA should be fired on the spot.  This is the most secretive agency in government, and here is the director blabbing about what the US is doing to a country we are officially not in conflict with.  The sheer incompetence of this regime is stunning to watch on display multiple times each day, every day.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 03, 2022, 05:50:05 pm
Biden says Ukraine might have to give Russia land in ‘negotiated settlement’

https://nypost.com/2022/06/03/biden-says-ukraine-might-have-to-give-russia-land/ (https://nypost.com/2022/06/03/biden-says-ukraine-might-have-to-give-russia-land/)

Quote
President Biden on Friday declined to rule out Ukraine having to cede part of its territory to Russia in order to end Moscow’s more than three-month-old invasion.

“Does Ukraine have to cede territory to achieve peace?” a reporter asked Biden after his remarks on the May jobs report.

“From the beginning, I’ve said and I’ve been — not everyone’s agreed with me — nothing about Ukraine without Ukraine,” Biden began his answer. “It’s their territory. I’m not going to tell them what they should and shouldn’t do.

“But it appears to me that at some point along the line, there’s going to have to be a negotiated settlement here,” the president added. “And what that entails, I don’t know. I don’t think anybody knows at the time. But in the meantime, we’re gonna continue to put the Ukrainians in a position where they can defend themselves.”

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Thursday that Russian forces currently occupy roughly one-fifth of his country.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 03, 2022, 05:55:11 pm
Deadly secret: Electronic warfare shapes Russia-Ukraine war

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-technology-90d760f01105b9aaf1886427dbfba917 (https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-technology-90d760f01105b9aaf1886427dbfba917)

Quote
On Ukraine’s battlefields, the simple act of powering up a cellphone can beckon a rain of deathly skyfall. Artillery radar and remote controls for unmanned aerial vehicles may also invite fiery shrapnel showers.

This is electronic warfare, a critical but largely invisible aspect of Russia’s war against Ukraine. Military commanders largely shun discussing it, fearing they’ll jeopardize operations by revealing secrets.

Electronic warfare technology targets communications, navigation and guidance systems to locate, blind and deceive the enemy and direct lethal blows. It is used against artillery, fighter jets, cruise missiles, drones and more. Militaries also use it to protect their forces.

It’s an area where Russia was thought to have a clear advantage going into the war. Yet, for reasons not entirely clear, its much-touted electronic warfare prowess was barely seen in the war’s early stages in the chaotic failure to seize the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.

It has become far more of a factor in fierce fighting in eastern Ukraine, where shorter, easier-to-defend supply lines let Russia move electronic warfare gear closer to the battlefield.

“They are jamming everything their systems can reach,” said an official of Aerorozvidka, a reconnaissance team of Ukrainian unmanned aerial vehicle tinkerers, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of safety concerns. “We can’t say they dominate, but they hinder us greatly.”

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 03, 2022, 06:48:48 pm
Biden says Ukraine might have to give Russia land in ‘negotiated settlement’

Biden needs to STFU.  The sitting US President is telling the world that Russia should be rewarded for its aggression and war crimes.  Idiot.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: berdie on June 03, 2022, 08:39:27 pm
Biden needs to STFU.  The sitting US President is telling the world that Russia should be rewarded for its aggression and war crimes.  Idiot.



I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 03, 2022, 08:41:59 pm
The NSA should be fired on the spot.  This is the most secretive agency in government, and here is the director blabbing about what the US is doing to a country we are officially not in conflict with.  The sheer incompetence of this regime is stunning to watch on display multiple times each day, every day.
Agreed. This is horrendous.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 03, 2022, 10:09:55 pm
Biden needs to STFU.  The sitting US President is telling the world that Russia should be rewarded for its aggression and war crimes.  Idiot.

How do you still think this sh*tshow is about Russian aggression?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on June 03, 2022, 10:18:53 pm
How do you still think this sh*tshow is about Russian aggression?

Really???
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 03, 2022, 10:50:00 pm
Really???

Unbelievable.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on June 03, 2022, 11:55:55 pm
The NSA should be fired on the spot.  This is the most secretive agency in government, and here is the director blabbing about what the US is doing to a country we are officially not in conflict with.  The sheer incompetence of this regime is stunning to watch on display multiple times each day, every day.
This is not an 'accident' or a 'goof up'. The Biden and his Biden Administration along with Democrats in Congress have been openly promoting and advancing a full on 'hot war' with Russia for over a year. It is not incompetence. It is their strategy and their goal. Biden and the Democrats are desperate for a World War to distract and take the blame for their endless war on all things American.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 04, 2022, 12:03:45 am
This is not an 'accident' or a 'goof up'. The Biden and his Biden Administration along with Democrats in Congress have been openly promoting and advancing a full on 'hot war' with Russia for over a year. It is not incompetence. It is their strategy and their goal. Biden and the Democrats are desperate for a World War to distract and take the blame for their endless war on all things American.

@240B

I agree. Normally,I would argue that "NOBODY is so freaking stupid they are willing to start a World War in order to remain in office",but not in this case. These retards not only don't have a single rational thought in what passes for their minds,I now have no doubt there is NOTHING they won't do to remain in power.

COMPLETELY freaking amoral,every single damn one of them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 04, 2022, 02:51:43 am
Really???

Yes, really @DB   Go back to 2014 and the official start of this conflict, reexamine how Ukraine has been used in US politics since then, fold in the incremental and vocal threat of NATO and, lastly, retrace how the US led Western powers orchestrated the escalation in 2022.

Ukraine freedom from Russian aggression was the propaganda milk bottle fed to Western do-gooders to gain their support for getting involved in
another border conflict without them asking "why?".   And, for the most part it's worked.




Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 04, 2022, 03:50:32 am
This is not an 'accident' or a 'goof up'. The Biden and his Biden Administration along with Democrats in Congress have been openly promoting and advancing a full on 'hot war' with Russia for over a year. It is not incompetence. It is their strategy and their goal. Biden and the Democrats are desperate for a World War to distract and take the blame for their endless war on all things American.

You are giving them too much credit. They are not that bright.

The Brandon admn are a bunch of faculty lounge leftists. They are married to an ideology that they will not deviate from. They are truly dangerous because they are dumb smart people.
 
The admn consists of people living in a bubble with no practical real life experience. They don't see moral hazards in what they do, or don't do. They don't know how to head off a crisis. In the case of Russia's invasion of Ukraine the moral hazard was the collapse of Afghanistan. Putin saw how incompetent and weak Biden is and decided it was time to take what he wanted. It didn't happen because of some great scheme of a bunch of brilliant tacticians.

The war would never have happened under Trump because he would never have allowed Afghanistan to collapse the way it did. Trump has real life experience and adapts as he pursues the goals he wants to accomplish.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 04, 2022, 04:27:10 am
and, lastly, retrace how the US led Western powers orchestrated the escalation in 2022.

Please explain how the US led Western powers orchestrated Russia to invade Ukraine and begin the systematic destruction of Ukraine cities, the wholesale massacre of civilians, the rapes, the murders, etc.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 04, 2022, 10:43:01 am
Please explain how the US led Western powers orchestrated Russia to invade Ukraine and begin the systematic destruction of Ukraine cities, the wholesale massacre of civilians, the rapes, the murders, etc.

@Hoodat @Right_in_Virginia

Can't wait to read her "Russian,good,US EVIL!" explanation.

Or maybe she will just sum it up by posting,"Better Red than Dead!"?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 04, 2022, 01:15:16 pm
Enemy collaborator, appointed “Zaporizhia governor,” begs to be transferred to Crimea

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3499663-enemy-collaborator-appointed-zaporizhia-governor-begs-to-be-transferred-to-crimea.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3499663-enemy-collaborator-appointed-zaporizhia-governor-begs-to-be-transferred-to-crimea.html)

Quote
The so-called "governor" of Zaporizhia region, Yevhen Balytsky, asked the invasion forces to allow him to rule the occupied territory from Crimea.

This was announced on Telegram by the head of the public council at the Odesa Regional Military Administration, Serhiy Bratchuk, Ukrinform reports.

“Collaborator Yevhen Balytsky asked to be transferred to Crimea. The Melitopol traitor, whom the Russian media refer to as ‘governor’ of Zaporizhia region, begged to move to Crimea along with his deputies. He explained his request by saying that he could easily ‘manage’ the region from there. Obviously, Balytsky fears for his life after a series of attempts by Melitopol guerillas,” the official wrote.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on June 04, 2022, 03:31:44 pm
Yes, really @DB   Go back to 2014 and the official start of this conflict, reexamine how Ukraine has been used in US politics since then, fold in the incremental and vocal threat of NATO and, lastly, retrace how the US led Western powers orchestrated the escalation in 2022.

Ukraine freedom from Russian aggression was the propaganda milk bottle fed to Western do-gooders to gain their support for getting involved in
another border conflict without them asking "why?".   And, for the most part it's worked.

You are so full of crap...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 04, 2022, 06:43:52 pm
You are so full of crap...

@DB

No kidding. "Better Red than Dead" pretty much sums it up.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 04, 2022, 07:35:34 pm
You are so full of crap...

The conflict between Ukraine and Russia did begin to escalate in 2014 (with U.S. involvement).

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/mcs/media/images/75290000/jpg/_75290542_75290541.jpg)

Mr Obama described Mr Poroshenko in early June as a "wise selection" for leader of Ukraine

Interestingly Poroshenko was elected as president in an election not held in much of the east.
 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-26248275
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 04, 2022, 07:51:56 pm

For Immediate Release
December 09, 2015
Remarks by Vice President Joe Biden to The Ukrainian Rada

The Rada

Kyiv, Ukraine

11:58 A.M. (Local)

THE VICE PRESIDENT:  Thank you.  What a great honor for me to be able to represent my country before such an august audience.

Mr. President, Mr. Prime Minister, Mr. Chairman, members of the Rada, ladies and gentlemen, I am deeply honored to be invited to speak to you today at a moment marked by great opportunity, as well as great uncertainty for the people of Ukraine.  The stakes for your country and the expectations of your people have never been higher because Ukraine, as you know better than I, has been here before.

In the West, as here we remember, the Orange Revolution -- young men and women who filled the Maidan a decade ago demanding that their voices and their votes both be respected.  They refused to back down in the face of rigged elections, and they succeeded.

But as history tells us and shows, and as we know, Ukraine’s leaders proved incapable of delivering on the promise of democratic revolution.  We saw reforms put in place only to be rolled back.  We saw oligarchs uninterested in change ousted from power only to return.  Reformers persecuted, thrown in prison as political retribution.  And the bright flame of hope for a new Ukraine snuffed out by the pervasive poison of cronyism, corruption, and kleptocracy.

Nearly a decade later, that flame of hope was reignited by thousands of brave Ukrainians, some of you in this room, storming the Maidan, demanding a Revolution of Dignity.  The world was transfixed.  This time they were not going to be denied the future that so many of your country have longed for, for so long.

And the world was horrified when peaceful patriots were met by violence.  They stayed at the Maidan day and night, facing down the Berkut in riot gear.  For the first time since the Middle Ages, the bells of St. Mary [*sic] raised the alarm, calling the citizens of Ukraine to reinforce their brothers and sisters on the Maidan.  Tens of thousands heeded the call bringing with them food, clothing, blankets, medical supplies, and their support.  As the world watched -- and I was literally on the phone with your former President urging restraint -- as the world watched, the final assault came.  Amidst fire and ice, snipers on rooftops, the Heavenly Hundred paid the ultimate price of patriots the world over.  Their blood and courage delivering to the Ukrainian people a second chance for freedom.  Their sacrifice -- to put it bluntly -- is now your obligation..................

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2015/12/09/remarks-vice-president-joe-biden-ukrainian-rada
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on June 04, 2022, 07:52:02 pm
The conflict between Ukraine and Russia did begin to escalate in 2014 (with U.S. involvement).

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/mcs/media/images/75290000/jpg/_75290542_75290541.jpg)


The fact this photo even exists tells me everything I need to know about Ukraine's thorough corruption.

After all, the money to purchase...demolish Magnum P.I.'s Hawaiian mansion and then build a new and improved version has to come from someplace.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 04, 2022, 07:53:20 pm
It was the Ukranians that ended the Minsk Agreement.

Termination

On 19 September 2018, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty. On 3 December 2018, Poroshenko drafted a legislation to Parliament to end the Treaty of Friendship immediately; with support coming from Western allies within the United Nations Security Council. According to Poroshenko the non-renewal "does not require a vote" in the Ukrainian parliament. Ukraine announced that on 21 September 2018, it would notify the United Nations and other relevant organizations on the termination of the treaty. Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it was notified on 24 September 2018 of the treaty's termination by Ukraine, expressing regret.

On 3 December 2018 Poroshenko did submit a bill on the termination of the treaty to parliament; 277 MPs supported the termination of the treaty, while 20 legislators voted against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian%E2%80%93Ukrainian_Friendship_Treaty
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on June 04, 2022, 08:11:08 pm
It was the Ukranians that ended the Minsk Agreement.

Termination

On 19 September 2018, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty. On 3 December 2018, Poroshenko drafted a legislation to Parliament to end the Treaty of Friendship immediately; with support coming from Western allies within the United Nations Security Council. According to Poroshenko the non-renewal "does not require a vote" in the Ukrainian parliament. Ukraine announced that on 21 September 2018, it would notify the United Nations and other relevant organizations on the termination of the treaty. Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs said that it was notified on 24 September 2018 of the treaty's termination by Ukraine, expressing regret.

On 3 December 2018 Poroshenko did submit a bill on the termination of the treaty to parliament; 277 MPs supported the termination of the treaty, while 20 legislators voted against it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian%E2%80%93Ukrainian_Friendship_Treaty

Because the Russians invaded their country years before in total violation of the agreement.

Why do we have to rehash these lies over and over?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 04, 2022, 08:15:34 pm
Because the Russians invaded their country years before in total violation of the agreement.

Why do we have to rehash these lies over and over?

Because you keep posting them. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on June 04, 2022, 08:19:52 pm
Because you keep posting them.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 04, 2022, 08:21:36 pm
Because the Russians invaded their country years before in total violation of the agreement.

Why do we have to rehash these lies over and over?

Lies? Just posting the facts and the fact still remains that the agreement was terminated by the Ukrainians.  The fact still remains that the conflict between Russia and Ukraine has been on going.  The fact still remains that under the Joe administration this conflict has escalated substantially with Joe giving billion and billions in aid to Ukraine.

No, I am not choosing sides.  Anyone that thinks the Joe is squeaky-clean in all of this needs to consider he was involved in all of this mess before he became president.  Sorry, I just don't see Joe miraculously stealing an election and this conflict escalating while Ukraine receives billions in U.S. aid as coincidental.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 04, 2022, 10:52:24 pm
Because the Russians invaded their country years before in total violation of the agreement.

Why do we have to rehash these lies over and over?

Because they have nothing else.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 04, 2022, 10:57:37 pm
Lies? Just posting the facts and the fact still remains that the agreement was terminated by the Ukrainians.  The fact still remains that the conflict between Russia and Ukraine has been on going. The fact still remains that under the Joe administration this conflict has escalated substantially with Joe giving billion and billions in aid to Ukraine.

No, I am not choosing sides.  Anyone that thinks the Joe is squeaky-clean in all of this needs to consider he was involved in all of this mess before he became president.  Sorry, I just don't see Joe miraculously stealing an election and this conflict escalating while Ukraine receives billions in U.S. aid as coincidental.

So you would expect a country that has already been invaded to continue an agreement with the invading country that proclaims their borders will be honored by the invading country. You should be working for the State Dept.!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 04, 2022, 10:58:56 pm
Because they have nothing else.

The demographics of Ukraine; according to the census result the population of the Crimean Federal District is 2.2844 million people. The ethnic composition is as follows: Russians: 1.49 million (65.3%), Ukrainians: 0.35 million (15.1%), Crimean Tatars: 0.24 million (12.0%).

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on June 04, 2022, 11:09:20 pm
The demographics of Ukraine; according to the census result the population of the Crimean Federal District is 2.2844 million people. The ethnic composition is as follows: Russians: 1.49 million (65.3%), Ukrainians: 0.35 million (15.1%), Crimean Tatars: 0.24 million (12.0%).

Oh, so Mexico gets Texas back because a large number of Latinos live there. Is that how that works?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 04, 2022, 11:14:49 pm
Oh, so Mexico gets Texas back because a large number of Latinos live there. Is that how that works?

No, Mexico and Texas have nothing to do with Ukraine.  :whistle:

So, we'll just displace all the Russians in the area?? I can't help but wonder how many of those Russians were 'attacked' over the years by Ukraine? 

Again, not picking sides, just thinking of the innocent people that are caught up in an obviously very political and ugly war that has  been going on for years. Also, again, Joe is far from innocent.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 05, 2022, 12:20:39 am
Enemy tongue: eastern Ukrainians reject their Russian birth language

The Guardian by Shaun Walker 6/4/2022

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/04/enemy-tongue-eastern-ukrainians-reject-their-russian-birth-language (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/04/enemy-tongue-eastern-ukrainians-reject-their-russian-birth-language)

Quote
In towns near Russia’s border, Moscow’s influence was strong and Ukrainian was rarely spoken. The war has changed that

Gamlet Zinkivskyi grew up speaking Russian in the city of Kharkiv, just like his parents. But when Vladimir Putin launched the invasion of Ukraine on 24 February, it was the final push for him to switch fully to Ukrainian.

“Unfortunately, I grew up speaking Russian, but it’s not pleasant to speak the same language as the army that is destroying whole areas of our country,” said Zinkivskyi, a 35-year-old street artist widely known to Kharkiv residents, who usually refer to him by his first name.

The switch of language is part of a broader journey towards a more pronounced Ukrainian identity for Zinkivskyi, something shared by many in the largely Russian-speaking areas of east and south Ukraine. It is a process which has become more pronounced in the past three months, but it has been brewing for some years.

As a young artist, Zinkivskyi had a longstanding dream: an exhibition in Moscow. Kharkiv is just a few dozen miles from the border with Russia and has long been almost entirely Russian-speaking. Culturally, Moscow felt like the centre of the universe. But when Zinkivskyi finally made it to a gallery there in 2012, he was horrified. “They were obnoxious and patronising about Kharkiv and Ukraine, and frankly I thought: bleep them,” he said. He returned to Kharkiv and became more focused on the Ukrainian art scene.

After the annexation of Crimea, in 2014, Zinkivskyi started trying to speak some Ukrainian with a few friends. Now he has fully switched, and for the first time is also introducing political and patriotic themes into his art.

The language issue is something that comes up again and again in Kharkiv. Oleksandra Panchenko, a 22-year-old interior designer, said that since 2014 she had been trying hard to improve her Ukrainian, but conceded that she still often speaks Russian with friends.

However, she is adamant that by the time she has children, she will be fluent enough to speak only Ukrainian at home. “I grew up in a Russian-language family, my kids will grow up in a Ukrainian-language family,” she said.

Back in 2014, there were separatist rumblings in Kharkiv, with some people looking to the swift annexation of Crimea and wondering if all of eastern Ukraine might not be better off inside Russia. But eight years of observing the miserable conditions in the Russian proxy states of Donetsk and Luhansk dampened those feelings, and Russia’s invasion has almost entirely extinguished them.

Panchenko, who has painted her nails blue and yellow and describes herself as a staunch patriot, made a guess at the political allegiances of Kharkiv residents before the war, based on her broad circle of acquaintances. About 10% of the city used to be what are disparagingly known as vatniki – aggressively pro-Russian – she said. She described 30% as being like her, “Ukraine, Ukraine, Ukraine”, and 50% were “neutral – they felt Ukrainian but not that strongly”.

Russia’s war on Ukraine has pushed people in this neutral category more firmly into the patriotic camp, creating a much broader and more passionate pro-Ukrainian base than ever existed previously, particularly in the east of the country.

“There were a lot of neutral people here, but as soon as it came to the war, a lot of them decided to fight,” said Vsevolod Kozhemyako, a businessman who runs an agricultural company and once featured on the Forbes list of the 100 richest Ukrainians.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 05, 2022, 12:53:28 am
No, Mexico and Texas have nothing to do with Ukraine.  :whistle:

Quote
So, we'll just displace all the Russians in the area??

@libertybele

You DO know that 65 percent of the Ukrainian population are ethnic Russians,right? If the ethnic Ukrainians were to deport them (and they ain't),who would they have to help them rebuild the nation,work the necessary jobs that every modern society needs done,HELP THEM RESIST ANY FUTURE RUSSIAN INVASIONS,pay taxes,etc,etc,etc?

And this ain't even addressing the undisputed FACT that there is and always has been a LOT of intermarriages/poking fun between the native Ukrainians and the Russians who moved there. I am GUESSING,but MY best guess is the vast majority of the ethnic Russians who live in Ukraine consider themselves to be Ukrainians.

Who the HELL do you think are the ethnic majority that are helping the Ukrainians fight against the invaders?

Quote
I can't help but wonder how many of those Russians were 'attacked' over the years by Ukraine? 

Then you need help of the type you aren't going to get on a chat board.

After all,you have 35 percent of the population attacking and dominating 65 percent of the population. Ponder that little factoid for a while.

Also,consider the FACT  that American military members are from damn near every ethnic group on the planet. One of the early VN heroes that went missing in action VERY early in the war was originally a Finnish Army officer who fought against the Russian invasion of Finland,and once Finland was conquered,he escaped to Germany and enlisted in the German Army as a Private so he could continue to fight the Russians,rising to the rank of Captain in the Waffen SS by the end of the war. When WW-2 ended he immigrated to the US to join the American Army as a private so he could continue to fight the Russians/Communism.

He went missing in action as a Special Forces Captain that was overseeing the insertion of a covert action team into North Vietnam or northern Laos early in the war. The Helicopter he was flying in was one of the old Kingbees that folded so it could be stored under the deck of Aircraft Carriers,and according to witnesses,it just came apart in the air in North Vietnam,and no bodies were recovered until a few years ago.

His (American) name was Larry Thorne. Look him up.

Another "foreigner" in SF was a friend of mine who was born in Japan during WW-2,and became an orphan when both his parents died during one of the fire-bombings of Tokyo. He and his two sisters were sent to an orphanage,and he was adopted by European diplomat,and went to Europe to live a couple of years later when his new father was reassigned. They eventually moved to the US when he was 16 or 17,and he enlisted in the US Army when he was 17. He retired from the US Army as a Master Sergeant E-8,and the NCOIC of the Special Forces Scuba Committee in Florida,after receiving at least one Silver Star while in VN,as well as a couple of Purple Hearts while working with Delta Project.

When you get right down to it,most Americans have roots in other nations. For the most part,"foreigners" are the very people who made America great.

 

Quote
Again, not picking sides, just thinking of the innocent people that are caught up in an obviously very political and ugly war that has  been going on for years.

Name ONE war that the same can't be truthfully said. The ONLY people that want wars are fools and greedy opportunists who expect to get rich(er) from the war.

Quote
Also, again, Joe is far from innocent.


He is a prize-winning fool,as well as a career thief and traitor to America,but his only involvement in the War in Ukraine came long after the war started,and even then it was only to get a cut of the money going there. Truth to tell,he should be arrested for treason,put on trial,and executed when found guilty. 

Which really has nothing to do with Russia invading Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 05, 2022, 01:11:14 am
@libertybele


He is a prize-winning fool,as well as a career thief and traitor to America,but his only involvement in the War in Ukraine came long after the war started,and even then it was only to get a cut of the money going there. Truth to tell,he should be arrested for treason,put on trial,and executed when found guilty.  Which really has nothing to do with Russia invading Ukraine.

@sneakypete Joe was dealing with Ukraine when he was VP., (I posted his address to the Ukraine up thread). You are absolutely correct. He indeed is a traitor to our country and where we differ in opinion is some of that does have to do with Russia invading Ukraine. I believe he goaded Putin somehow into escalating the war, be it making false promises, or making threats. Joe is after all known for his stupidity, incompetency and superiority complexes, or maybe perhaps it was just Putin seizing an opportunity after he saw how Joe absolutely failed in Afghanistan.

Z has received billions of dollars from us and the West along with munitions.  I think that the U.S. has contributed plenty and the last thing that I want to see is American boots on the ground -- WWIII for sure.  Again, it truly isn't our fight.


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 03:24:41 am
The conflict between Ukraine and Russia did begin to escalate in 2014.

Correct.  Russia's invasion began in February 2014 following the Maidan Revolution which drove Russian puppet Viktor Yanukovych out of office.


(with U.S. involvement).

False.

The impeachment of Yanukovych which took place almost four months before Poroshenko was elected.  So no, there was no US involvement whatsoever with Russia's February 2014 invasion.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 03:33:47 am
The fact this photo even exists tells me everything I need to know about Ukraine's thorough corruption.

The fact this photo even exists tells me everything I need to know about Trump's thorough corruption.

(https://i.imgur.com/19BneUM.jpg)

(See how stupid that sounds?)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 03:42:28 am
It was the Ukranians that ended the Minsk Agreement.

Termination

On 19 September 2018, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty.

False.  On that date, Poroshenko signed a decree "Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, signed on May 31, 1997."  - https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/141600-russia_ukraine_friendship/

This had zero to do with the Minsk agreement, a treaty that Russia was in clear violation of.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 03:56:59 am
I can't help but wonder how many of those Russians were 'attacked' over the years by Ukraine?

Instead of 'wondering', why not dig up some actual evidence that shows it?  I am sick and tired of people offering claims on this board that have no basis in fact.

Bottom line, Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych betrayed his own country by taking a huge bribe from Putin and sabotaging Ukraine's entry into the EU.  Because of this, Yanukovych was driven from office.  IMMEDIATELY after that happened, Russia invaded.

Putin sent special forces into Ukraine to save Yanukovych from being arrested.  He has spent the last eight years living in exile in Russia as a guest of Putin.  When the assault on Kiev began in February of this year, Yanukovych was in Minsk, awaiting to be installed as the new Ukrainian (puppet) leader once Kiev fell and Zelenskiy was killed.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 04:04:57 am
We are holding on, say Mykolaiv residents

Laura Bicker - BBC, Mykolaiv  |  1 day ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1178E/production/_125266517_07639404-104e-4f69-9ee5-c1e073de2b8b.jpg)
Liudmyla hugs her youngest children goodbye

There is shelling every day in Mykolaiv. The Russians are on the outskirts to the east and south, pummelling surrounding villages and forcing thousands to flee.

The wail of the air raid siren is a prelude to a thud to our right as our car makes its way through the suburbs of this major port.

A plume of smoke a few kilometres away confirms the hit - another rocket.

We are following a Ukrainian Red Cross van as they try to rescue some of those coming under regular shelling: yet another busload to add to the already historic human exodus from this country.

These farewells have become a familiar sight across Ukraine over the last 100 days, but they are no less heartbreaking to watch.

Liudmyla has decided it is time for her youngest children to leave. She can't let them play outside as the bombardment continues and she wants them to be somewhere safe.

She holds on to them as long as she can, one under each arm, until it is time to go. Then it is too much. She turns her back and sobs as they leave.

"I will see them again when the bombing stops," she tells me. But no-one knows when that will be.

Mykolaiv was one of the first cities attacked when the invasion began. Russian forces came close to the city limits but were pushed back.  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61687586



Russia continues its wanton bombardment of Ukrainian civilians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on June 05, 2022, 11:07:26 am
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/06/u-s-officials-admit-lied-ukraine-success-russian-failures/ (https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/06/u-s-officials-admit-lied-ukraine-success-russian-failures/)

U.S. Officials Admit They Have Lied About Ukraine Success and Russian Failures

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 05, 2022, 11:19:32 am
Oh, so Mexico gets Texas back because a large number of Latinos live there. Is that how that works?
Give Quebec back to the French!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 05, 2022, 11:25:17 am
@sneakypete Joe was dealing with Ukraine when he was VP., (I posted his address to the Ukraine up thread). You are absolutely correct. He indeed is a traitor to our country and where we differ in opinion is some of that does have to do with Russia invading Ukraine. I believe he goaded Putin somehow into escalating the war, be it making false promises, or making threats. Joe is after all known for his stupidity, incompetency and superiority complexes, or maybe perhaps it was just Putin seizing an opportunity after he saw how Joe absolutely failed in Afghanistan.

Z has received billions of dollars from us and the West along with munitions.  I think that the U.S. has contributed plenty and the last thing that I want to see is American boots on the ground -- WWIII for sure.  Again, it truly isn't our fight.
Has he? Munitions to some extent, certainly from EU/NATO, but the US has held some of those transfers up, and as for the money Biden has pledged, where is the accounting?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 05, 2022, 12:25:41 pm
Has he? Munitions to some extent, certainly from EU/NATO, but the US has held some of those transfers up, and as for the money Biden has pledged, where is the accounting?

@Smokin Joe

It's called "skimming",and generally everybody involved in that particular"food chain" gets a "felony taste" to make sure they never talk about it. In cases like this,even a small "taste" can add up to serious money because we are talking about Billions of dollars.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 05, 2022, 04:50:49 pm
The demographics of Ukraine; according to the census result the population of the Crimean Federal District is 2.2844 million people. The ethnic composition is as follows: Russians: 1.49 million (65.3%), Ukrainians: 0.35 million (15.1%), Crimean Tatars: 0.24 million (12.0%).

So what.

The demographics in Texas are changing does that mean it should be given back to Mexico?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 05, 2022, 04:59:22 pm
No, Mexico and Texas have nothing to do with Ukraine.  :whistle:

So, we'll just displace all the Russians in the area?? I can't help but wonder how many of those Russians were 'attacked' over the years by Ukraine? 

Again, not picking sides, just thinking of the innocent people that are caught up in an obviously very political and ugly war that has  been going on for years. Also, again, Joe is far from innocent.

@DB

It is hard to discuss big topics if posters aren't capable of applying their points across the board.

You are absolutely right demographics are irrelevant. Ukraine was recognized as a sovereign nation after the end of the cold war. Ukraine was attacked by Russia. Russia is the evil party in this war. If we want to stop this type of aggression from getting to the point where US troops are directly confronting Russian troops the place is Ukraine. The appeasement crowd doesn't want to understand this for some reason.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 05, 2022, 05:47:49 pm
@DB

Quote
  The appeasement crowd doesn't want to understand this for some reason.

@DB

They will never admit it,not even to themselves,but it can be summed up as "Better Red than dead."

Surrender Monkeys.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 05, 2022, 05:55:52 pm
@DB

It is hard to discuss big topics if posters aren't capable of applying their points across the board.

You are absolutely right demographics are irrelevant. Ukraine was recognized as a sovereign nation after the end of the cold war. Ukraine was attacked by Russia. Russia is the evil party in this war. If we want to stop this type of aggression from getting to the point where US troops are directly confronting Russian troops the place is Ukraine. The appeasement crowd doesn't want to understand this for some reason.

I am not posting "opinion" rather I am posting facts, and I have provided links. Whether or not you opt to read them is entirely up to you and certainly you don't have to agree.

Also, I am NOT appeasing either side and I too would like for the aggression to stop on both sides. What is happening is horrific. However, I also realize that the reality of the situation is that this has been an on going war for years with corruption from within on both sides as well as corruption from the U.S., UN and NATO.

To label and categorize posters in here does very little good to keep this debate issue from going haywire.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 06:29:26 pm
I am not posting "opinion" rather I am posting facts, and I have provided links.

Again:


It was the Ukranians that ended the Minsk Agreement.

Termination

On 19 September 2018, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko signed a decree not to extend the treaty.


False.  On that date, Poroshenko signed a decree ending the "Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, signed on May 31, 1997."  - https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/141600-russia_ukraine_friendship/

This had zero to do with the Minsk agreement, a treaty that Russia was in clear violation of.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 05, 2022, 06:41:01 pm
Again:


False.  On that date, Poroshenko signed a decree "Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation, signed on May 31, 1997."  - https://english.pravda.ru/news/world/141600-russia_ukraine_friendship/

This had zero to do with the Minsk agreement, a treaty that Russia was in clear violation of.


The Minsk Agreement was signed on  December 8, 1991.

https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1991-2/the-end-of-the-soviet-union/the-end-of-the-soviet-union-texts/minsk-agreement/

Source: Library of Congress, Country Studies, 2008.

----------------

Kiev officially admits violating Minsk agreements — LPR envoy


In accordance with additional ceasefire control measures, in effect since July 27, 2020, the sides are prohibited from using unmanned aerial vehicles in the vicinity of the line of contact

LUGANSK, October 27. /TASS/. The armed forces of Ukraine have officially admitted violating the Minsk Agreements on Ukrainian reconciliation by using a Turkish-made Bayraktar drone in the east of the country, a diplomat of the self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR) has said.

"The Ukrainian military declare in a deliberate and even demonstrative fashion that they are violating the Minsk Agreements," said Rodion Miroshnik, who represents the self-proclaimed Lugansk People’s Republic in the Contact Group’s political subgroup. "In September 2014, Kiev signed a memorandum envisaging a straightforward ban on flights of combat aviation and foreign unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs). But [Ukrainian Armed Forces Commander Valery] Zaluzhny is reporting flights and even combat use of UAVs along the line of contact. Therefore, he just does not give a damn about Kiev’s obligations under the Minsk Agreements."..............

https://tass.com/world/1354451?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 06:47:36 pm
The Minsk Agreement was signed on  December 8, 1991.

https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1991-2/the-end-of-the-soviet-union/the-end-of-the-soviet-union-texts/minsk-agreement/

Source: Library of Congress, Country Studies, 2008.

For the third time, the treaty that Poroshenko terminated in 2018 was the "Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation", signed in 1997.  That is a completely different treaty from the Minsk Agreement.  Your claim that Poroshenko terminated the Minsk Agreement in 2018 is plainly false.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 05, 2022, 06:55:12 pm
For the third time, the treaty that Poroshenko terminated in 2018 was the "Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation", signed in 1997.  That is a completely different treaty from the Minsk Agreement.  Your claim that Poroshenko terminated the Minsk Agreement in 2018 is plainly false.

Thank you @Hoodat I stand corrected .... obviously I was confusing and combining the two agreements. Yes, Poroshenko terminated the "Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership",  and yes, Ukraine ended the Minsk agreement as indicated above.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 06:58:02 pm
The Minsk Agreement was signed on  December 8, 1991.

https://soviethistory.msu.edu/1991-2/the-end-of-the-soviet-union/the-end-of-the-soviet-union-texts/minsk-agreement/

Source: Library of Congress, Country Studies, 2008.

Also, the Minsk Agreement from 1991 is about the dissolution of the Soviet Union and the establishment of Belarus and Ukraine as separate nations.  It has nothing to do with the 2014 Minsk Agreement in response to Russia's 2014 incursion into Ukraine.  It was signed on Sept 14, 2014.

Before the ink was even dry, Russian puppet separatist leader Alexander Zakharchenko vowed to retake territory lost to Ukraine in the preceding months, in clear violation of the agreement he signed.  And the rest is history.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 06:59:26 pm
and yes, Ukraine ended the Minsk agreement as indicated above.

You are looking at the wrong Minsk Agreement.  Try this:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 05, 2022, 07:09:29 pm
You are looking at the wrong Minsk Agreement.  Try this:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minsk_agreements

My point is BOTH sides have violated past agreements; not so much how they play into the current escalation. 

What I continue to state is that I believe (yes, it is my opinion) that something triggered or provoked Putin into escalating this war to the degree that he has and I believe it has to do with Joe and U.S. involvement with Ukraine, or UN, or NATO or all three.  Joe takes office, states that he feels Putin is going to escalate the war and voila he gives Z $$$ while making the statements even before Putin strikes and next thing we know Putin is relentless in attacking Ukraine.  Too much of a coincidence. 

Neither side is completely innocent. Above all, I feel for the Ukrainian and Russian people who have been caught up in this web of politics and battles for years.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 07:30:59 pm
What I continue to state is that I believe (yes, it is my opinion) that something triggered or provoked Putin into escalating this war to the degree that he has and I believe it has to do with Joe and U.S. involvement with Ukraine, or UN, or NATO or all three.

The event that 'encouraged' Putin to invade was Biden's debacle in Afghanistan and his betrayal of our NATO allies last summer.


Joe takes office, states that he feels Putin is going to escalate the war and voila he gives Z $$$ while making the statements even before Putin strikes and next thing we know Putin is relentless in attacking Ukraine.  Too much of a coincidence.

Coincidence?  There's not even a connection.  Do you really believe Putin invaded Ukraine based on a statement Biden made?  If so, what was that statement?  Please post it.


Neither side is completely innocent. Above all, I feel for the Ukrainian and Russian people who have been caught up in this web of politics and battles for years.

When you see Ukraine engaging in the orderly destruction of civilian areas from Russian city to Russian city, the execution of Ukrainian civilians, the rape of Ukrainian women, and the forced relocation of the Ukrainian people into Soviet-style gulags, then please let me know.  Until then, don't try to draw some type of moral equivalency between Ukraine's action and Russia's.

(https://gdb.voanews.com/03190000-0aff-0242-311c-08da43f6a682_cx0_cy10_cw0_w1597_n_r1_st_s.jpg)

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 05, 2022, 07:41:55 pm
The event that 'encouraged' Putin to invade was Biden's debacle in Afghanistan and his betrayal of our NATO allies last summer.


Coincidence?  There's not even a connection.  Do you really believe Putin invaded Ukraine based on a statement Biden made?  If so, what was that statement?  Please post it.


When you see Ukraine engaging in the orderly destruction of civilian areas from Russian city to Russian city, the execution of Ukrainian civilians, the rape of Ukrainian women, and the forced relocation of the Ukrainian people into Soviet-style gulags, then please let me know.  Until then, don't try to draw some type of moral equivalency between Ukraine's action and Russia's.

(https://gdb.voanews.com/03190000-0aff-0242-311c-08da43f6a682_cx0_cy10_cw0_w1597_n_r1_st_s.jpg)

Seriously @Hoodat AGAIN, I am NOT trying to draw any type of moral equivalency between Ukraine and Russia.  None.

If you go back and read my post, you will see that I stated, that Joe made comments about Putin getting ready to escalate the war.  If you want a link -- here it is.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/18/us/politics/biden-ukraine-russia.html

If you are of the opinion that there is no connection and that Joe has no monkey in this war, so be it.

Enough said.

Quite frankly, I'm more interested in us NOT becoming more involved.  I am also extremely concerned about the crisis at our border. We could easily take a couple of billion that we gave Ukraine and build a very strong and protective wall securing our country. :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 07:47:35 pm
Ukrainian MacGyver shows his solution to firing 82mm mortar rounds from an RPG-7 using an axe and a flex for the modification.  https://libreddit.manerakai.com/r/ukraine/comments/v4qk06/ukrainian_macgyver_shows_his_solution_to_firing/

Don't try this at home, kids.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 07:56:56 pm
If you go back and read my post, you will see that I stated, that Joe made comments about Putin getting ready to escalate the war.  If you want a link -- here it is.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/18/us/politics/biden-ukraine-russia.html

Biden made that statement after months of preparation by the Russian Army.  It is disingenuous to blame months of preparation and deployment of an invasion army on a statement made AFTER those plans had already been implemented.


If you are of the opinion that there is no connection and that Joe has no monkey in this war, so be it.

Enough said.

I have already stated numerous times that Biden's incompetent debacle in Afghanistan is what gave Putin the green light.  Did Biden screw up Afghanistan and betray our NATO allies for the expressed purpose of prodding Putin to invade Ukraine?  No, there is zero evidence to support this.  Putin decided to go for the full scale invasion now because he knew Biden would do little or nothing to stop it.  And so far, Putin has been proven right.


Quite frankly, I'm more interested in us NOT becoming more involved.

As am I.  It has been my position from Day One.  And the best way to keep US (and NATO) troops out of harms way for the next 20 years is to dish up a decisive defeat for the Russian Army at the hands of a well-armed Ukrainian military.  Unfortunately, Joe Biden is the biggest obstacle to that occurring.


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 05, 2022, 08:49:11 pm
Ukrainian MacGyver shows his solution to firing 82mm mortar rounds from an RPG-7 using an axe and a flex for the modification.  https://libreddit.manerakai.com/r/ukraine/comments/v4qk06/ukrainian_macgyver_shows_his_solution_to_firing/

Don't try this at home, kids.

@Hoodat

I wonder how you say "Sumbodie hold mah beer!" in Ukrainian?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 09:17:57 pm
https://twitter.com/agathaxgorski/status/1533060697382342657
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 05, 2022, 10:28:42 pm
Ukraine war: Putin vows to hit new targets if West sends weapons to Ukraine

Russia will expand the list of targets it will attack in Ukraine if Western countries send long-range weapons to Kyiv, President Vladimir Putin says.

The warning came as explosions shook parts of Kyiv on Sunday in the first assault on the capital city for weeks.

Russia says it hit tanks supplied by European countries. Ukraine says it was a railway repair plant.

The capital has seen little shelling in recent months, after Russia refocused its efforts on the Donbas region.

As Russia makes slow but steady progress on the ground there - hundreds of kilometres to the east - several countries have pledged to send advanced weapons to Kyiv.

Most recently, the US announced it was sending the M142 High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS), which fires precision-guided rockets that can hit targets up to 70km (45 miles) away - far further than the artillery Ukraine currently possesses.......

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61697093
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 05, 2022, 10:30:06 pm
https://twitter.com/agathaxgorski/status/1533060697382342657

@Hoodat

THAT ain't going to work well  for the Neo-Soviets with the Russian population.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 05, 2022, 10:42:13 pm
Russia will expand the list of targets it will attack in Ukraine if Western countries send long-range weapons to Kyiv, President Vladimir Putin says.

As if targeting women, children, the elderly, schools, churches, etc. isn't enough.


The warning came as explosions shook parts of Kyiv on Sunday in the first assault on the capital city for weeks.

In other words, do nothing, and Kyiv gets hit.  So what will be different if Ukraine receives long range weapons?  I am sick of people cowering to this bully.  To hell with Putin.  Give Ukraine long-range bombers to flatten Belgorod and Bryansk.  Then ask Putin, "Like me now, bitch?"
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 05, 2022, 10:55:26 pm
As if targeting women, children, the elderly, schools, churches, etc. isn't enough.


In other words, do nothing, and Kyiv gets hit. So what will be different if Ukraine receives long range weapons?  I am sick of people cowering to this bully.  To hell with Putin.  Give Ukraine long-range bombers to flatten Belgorod and Bryansk.  Then ask Putin, "Like me now, bitch?"

It is very frustrating to see people so easily manipulated by a dictator. The Russian military is not completely incompetent. They've seen how badly their military has performed and have no desire to get into a battle with NATO. Biden is a worthless, corrupt, govt. hack. He reacts to slowly and because of it things get worse than they should. Instead of sending medium range missiles to Ukraine he should send the missiles with the longer range so Ukraine can destroy bridges, train stations and arms depots.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 05, 2022, 10:56:11 pm
It is very frustrating to see people so easily manipulated by a dictator. The Russian military is not completely incompetent. They've seen how badly their military has performed and have no desire to get into a battle with NATO. Biden is a worthless, corrupt, govt. hack. He reacts to slowly and because of it things get worse than they should. Instead of sending medium range missiles to Ukraine he should send the missiles with the longer range so Ukraine can destroy bridges, train stations and arms depots.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 06, 2022, 12:35:57 am
Vladimir Putin 'loses his 11th general' in Ukraine war as defenders 'ambush his vehicle in Donbas'

WILL STEWART  |  14:01 EDT, 5 June 2022  |  UPDATED: 18:18 EDT, 5 June 2022


Vladimir Putin was today hit by the death of Russia’s 11th general in his bloody war with Ukraine.

Major-General Roman Kutuzov was the chief of staff of the 29th Combined Arms Army, according to reports.

His vehicle was ambushed by Ukrainians and he died in a fight in Donbas, say sources.

His death is the 11th general, but the first such high ranking army officer in more than a month.

In addition, at least 49 colonels have been killed in the war with Ukraine.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06/05/18/58711693-10886971-image-a-52_1654450500012.jpg)
Major-General Roman Kutuzov (pictured) was the chief of staff of the 29th Combined Arms Army, according to reports

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10886971/Vladimir-Putin-loses-11th-general-Ukraine-war-defenders-ambush-vehicle-Donbas.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 06, 2022, 12:47:52 am
Enemy tongue: eastern Ukrainians reject their Russian birth language

Shaun Walker, Kharkiv  |  Sat 4 Jun 2022 09.08 EDT


(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/af2fb634741fdd74863e5f38c8454869b961daa2/0_77_6720_4032/master/6720.jpg?width=940&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=bfdf0e6e431544127878c25a0d434233)
The street artist Gamlet in a destroyed pub in Kharkiv: the slogan on the wall reads ‘Time hears us’ in Ukrainian.

In towns near Russia’s border, Moscow’s influence was strong and Ukrainian was rarely spoken. The war has changed that

amlet Zinkivskyi grew up speaking Russian in the city of Kharkiv, just like his parents. But when Vladimir Putin launched the invasion of Ukraine on 24 February, it was the final push for him to switch fully to Ukrainian.

“Unfortunately, I grew up speaking Russian, but it’s not pleasant to speak the same language as the army that is destroying whole areas of our country,” said Zinkivskyi, a 35-year-old street artist widely known to Kharkiv residents, who usually refer to him by his first name.

The switch of language is part of a broader journey towards a more pronounced Ukrainian identity for Zinkivskyi, something shared by many in the largely Russian-speaking areas of east and south Ukraine. It is a process which has become more pronounced in the past three months, but it has been brewing for some years.

As a young artist, Zinkivskyi had a longstanding dream: an exhibition in Moscow. Kharkiv is just a few dozen miles from the border with Russia and has long been almost entirely Russian-speaking. Culturally, Moscow felt like the centre of the universe. But when Zinkivskyi finally made it to a gallery there in 2012, he was horrified. “They were obnoxious and patronising about Kharkiv and Ukraine  .  .  .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/04/enemy-tongue-eastern-ukrainians-reject-their-russian-birth-language
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 06, 2022, 12:56:41 am
Quote
After the annexation of Crimea, in 2014, Zinkivskyi started trying to speak some Ukrainian with a few friends. Now he has fully switched, and for the first time is also introducing political and patriotic themes into his art.

The language issue is something that comes up again and again in Kharkiv. Oleksandra Panchenko, a 22-year-old interior designer, said that since 2014 she had been trying hard to improve her Ukrainian, but conceded that she still often speaks Russian with friends.

However, she is adamant that by the time she has children, she will be fluent enough to speak only Ukrainian at home. “I grew up in a Russian-language family, my kids will grow up in a Ukrainian-language family,” she said.

Back in 2014, there were separatist rumblings in Kharkiv, with some people looking to the swift annexation of Crimea and wondering if all of eastern Ukraine might not be better off inside Russia. But eight years of observing the miserable conditions in the Russian proxy states of Donetsk and Luhansk dampened those feelings, and Russia’s invasion has almost entirely extinguished them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 06, 2022, 01:21:52 am
Russia ‘suffering huge losses’ losing ground in Sievierodonetsk: official

https://nypost.com/2022/06/04/russia-losing-ground-in-sievierodonetsk-official/ (https://nypost.com/2022/06/04/russia-losing-ground-in-sievierodonetsk-official/)

Quote
Russia is “suffering huge losses” and losing hard-fought ground in the Ukrainian city of Severodonetsk after invading units started retreating from the key industrial center, Ukrainian officials asserted Saturday.

The dramatic turnabout, which could not be independently confirmed, represented a rare successful counter-offensive against Russian forces,  which had recently been steadily advancing in Ukraine’s eastern territories.

It was the first time Ukraine claimed to have conducted a large counter-attack in Severodonetsk, a city of 100,000 and the last major municipality in the disputed Luhansk oblast under Ukrainian control, after days of losing ground in the country’s embattled east.

Russia had “previously managed to capture most of the city,” Sergiy Haidai, the governor of the Luhansk region said in a televised address Saturday, The Guardian reported. “But now our military has pushed them back.”

Later Saturday, Oleksandr Stryuk, the head of the city’s military operations, said that Ukrainian forces were able to build a line of defense in Severodonetsk, according to The Kyiv Independent.

Both sides of the war have claimed to have inflicted huge casualties in the fighting for the city — a battlefront that military experts believe could determine which of the two countries has the momentum for a prolonged war of attrition in coming months.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 06, 2022, 02:51:50 am
Vladimir Putin 'loses his 11th general' in Ukraine war as defenders 'ambush his vehicle in Donbas'

WILL STEWART  |  14:01 EDT, 5 June 2022  |  UPDATED: 18:18 EDT, 5 June 2022


Vladimir Putin was today hit by the death of Russia’s 11th general in his bloody war with Ukraine.

Major-General Roman Kutuzov was the chief of staff of the 29th Combined Arms Army, according to reports.

His vehicle was ambushed by Ukrainians and he died in a fight in Donbas, say sources.

His death is the 11th general, but the first such high ranking army officer in more than a month.

In addition, at least 49 colonels have been killed in the war with Ukraine.

(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2022/06/05/18/58711693-10886971-image-a-52_1654450500012.jpg)
Major-General Roman Kutuzov (pictured) was the chief of staff of the 29th Combined Arms Army, according to reports

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10886971/Vladimir-Putin-loses-11th-general-Ukraine-war-defenders-ambush-vehicle-Donbas.html

It's nice to see some good news.

The fighting in Donbas has been pretty intense and Ukraine has taken it's share of losses. I think things will change in a big way by August if Ukraine can get the better weapons into the fight. The longer range missiles would be an especially big help because they could take out the bridge from Russia to Crimea. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 06, 2022, 07:28:21 am
Ukrainian MacGyver shows his solution to firing 82mm mortar rounds from an RPG-7 using an axe and a flex for the modification.  https://libreddit.manerakai.com/r/ukraine/comments/v4qk06/ukrainian_macgyver_shows_his_solution_to_firing/

Don't try this at home, kids.
Notice, he explained the detonator had been removed from the mortar round...what he is doing is a whole lot safer that way. :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 06, 2022, 01:27:06 pm
Putin 'loses TWO generals in one day': Moscow is accused of covering up the death of ANOTHER top commander as Ukrainian forces launch ambush in bloody fight for the Donbas

By CHRIS JEWERS and WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
6 June 2022

Russian President Vladimir Putin lost two of his most senior commanders in a single day in a devastating bridge ambush in eastern Ukraine, a group of independent journalists working on both sides of the war have claimed.

Russia confirmed the death of Major-General Roman Kutuzov on Sunday, but new reports on Monday said Lieutenant-General Roman Berdnikov was killed on the same day in an attack carried out by Kyiv's forces.

It has been suggested that the unusual speed with which Kutuzov's death was confirmed by Moscow was an attempt to cover up the loss of Berdnikov, 47.

Less than a month ago, Berdnikov was commander of the Russian armed forces task force in Syria, and he was moved to take charge of Putin's forces and those of the Donetsk People's Republic [DPR] in Donbas.

If his death is confirmed he will be the 12th general to have been killed in the war.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10888403/Ukraine-war-Putin-loses-two-senior-commanders-one-day.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 06, 2022, 10:11:37 pm
Russians Renew Missile Attacks on Kyiv, Reportedly From 1,000 Miles Away


Russian forces on Sunday fired missiles at Kyiv for the first time since late April.

President Vladimir Putin said that if the West delivers long-range missiles to Ukraine, Russia would retaliate by striking facilities that it has refraining from attacking up to now.

In an interview on state television, Putin shrugged off the recent U.S. decision to provide the Ukrainians with advanced multiple launch rocket systems, along with limited-range projectiles, to help them defend their territory from the invading Russian forces.

Those same systems are also capable of firing long-range missiles, however, and Putin said that if the West decides to supply Kyiv with such missiles, “we will draw conclusions from that and employ our weapons that we have in sufficient quantities to strike those facilities that we are not attacking so far.”

The Biden administration says Ukraine has committed not to use the rocket launch systems to fire across the border into Russian territory.

Meanwhile the Russians, while fighting on the ground in the eastern Donbass region – where Kremlin-backed separatists have fought the central government since 2014 – are also using long-range weapons to attack Ukraine, sometimes from many hundreds of miles away.

Early on Sunday morning, Ukraine’s defense ministry said five X-22 cruise missiles had targeted the capital early on Sunday morning. One was destroyed by a missile defense system and others hit “infrastructure facilities.” Kyiv mayor Vitali Klitschko said one injured person was hospitalized....................

https://www.cnsnews.com/article/international/patrick-goodenough/russians-renew-missile-attacks-kyiv-reportedly-1000-miles
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 06, 2022, 10:18:48 pm
Russians Renew Missile Attacks on Kyiv, Reportedly From 1,000 Miles Away


Russian forces on Sunday fired missiles at Kyiv for the first time since late April.

Not good.   **nononono*
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 06, 2022, 10:34:42 pm
Not good.   **nononono*

No, not at all

Ukrainian military says Russia launched 5 cruise missiles toward Kyiv: Russia “launched 5 X-22 cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea in the direction of Kyiv” at 6 a.m. local time on Sunday, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said. One missile was destroyed by Ukraine’s air defense unit, and the rest hit “infrastructure facilities in the north of the Ukrainian capital,” the military said. Earlier, Vadym Denysenko, adviser to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, said one military target and one civilian target were hit.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-05-22/h_962785a398f5215ff287fecb67ee2db7

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DCPatriot on June 06, 2022, 10:37:30 pm
No, not at all

Ukrainian military says Russia launched 5 cruise missiles toward Kyiv: Russia “launched 5 X-22 cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea in the direction of Kyiv” at 6 a.m. local time on Sunday, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said. One missile was destroyed by Ukraine’s air defense unit, and the rest hit “infrastructure facilities in the north of the Ukrainian capital,” the military said. Earlier, Vadym Denysenko, adviser to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, said one military target and one civilian target were hit.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-05-22/h_962785a398f5215ff287fecb67ee2db7

Hmmm...and here I thought it was just a matter of having a laser spotter on the ground, with the button pusher 1K miles away.

How 'unsophisticated'.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 06, 2022, 11:26:59 pm
No, not at all

Ukrainian military says Russia launched 5 cruise missiles toward Kyiv: Russia “launched 5 X-22 cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea in the direction of Kyiv” at 6 a.m. local time on Sunday, the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine said. One missile was destroyed by Ukraine’s air defense unit, and the rest hit “infrastructure facilities in the north of the Ukrainian capital,” the military said. Earlier, Vadym Denysenko, adviser to the Minister of Internal Affairs of Ukraine, said one military target and one civilian target were hit.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-06-05-22/h_962785a398f5215ff287fecb67ee2db7

I think this is a message to Biden after sending long range missles to Ukraine.......reminding him to keep Zelensky's promise not to use them across the Russian border.  We shall see.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 06, 2022, 11:36:00 pm
I think this is a message to Biden after sending long range missles to Ukraine.......reminding him to keep Zelensky's promise not to use them across the Russian border.  We shall see.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 07, 2022, 12:03:27 am
Speaking of invasions....Watch this whole 3:05 video     

https://gettr.com/post/p1cwo074e42
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 07, 2022, 12:47:38 am
I think this is a message to Biden after sending long range missles to Ukraine.......reminding him to keep Zelensky's promise not to use them across the Russian border.  We shall see.

I think this is a message from Putin to show how much contempt he has for Ukrainians.  Putin has bombed civilian population centers in Ukraine for 102 consecutive days.  Today, Ukrainian women and children would have lost their lives to Russian artillery, bombs, rockets, and missiles regardless of what Biden did.  Killing civilians and destroying Ukrainian population centers are what Putin does.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 07, 2022, 12:57:46 am
Speaking of invasions....Watch this whole 3:05 video     

https://gettr.com/post/p1cwo074e42

Holy SCH*T!!!  Invasion indeed.  Damn it!!!  Again, take some of the darn money that we're handing off to Ukraine and build a darn wall and secure our own borders and make our own country safe!!!!!  AMERICA FIRST!!!  :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 07, 2022, 01:03:53 am
I think this is a message to Biden after sending long range missles to Ukraine.......reminding him to keep Zelensky's promise not to use them across the Russian border.  We shall see.

If so, the best response is to send the missiles today!

The best way to end the barbaric aggression of the Russians is to defeat them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 07, 2022, 01:14:32 am
If so, the best response is to send the missiles today!

The best way to end the barbaric aggression of the Russians is to defeat them.

In the same light .... the best way to end the aggressive invasion at our border IS to defeat them as well.  Just sayin'.

Yes, Ukraine/Ruissa needs to stop, but we need to secure our own country!!!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 07, 2022, 01:30:58 am
Yes, Ukraine/Russia needs to stop, but AND we need to secure our own country!!!

The two premises are independent of each other.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 07, 2022, 01:36:38 am
The two premises are independent of each other.

Most important of the TWO, is securing our own borders!!  If we can spend billions on Ukraine/Russia war, we can spend billions on securing our own country!!!

 :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 07, 2022, 01:41:12 am
I think this is a message from Putin to show how much contempt he has for Ukrainians.   

@Hoodat

Naw,it's just "stoopid Russian Macho Bush". Never met a Russian that didn't have an inferiority complex,for damn good historic reasons,and I have met more than a few. Oddly enough,this trait seems to pass through to at least two generations that are born in the west.

Yes,it IS "stoopid",but make no mistake about it,it is also extremely dangerous because these goobers just don't have enough common sense to know when to back off. All their lives they have been indoctrinated into "Defending Holy Mother Russia",and it is one of the very few things that was accepted by the authorities.

In Russia,and those who were born and who grow up in Russia,an inferiority comes at the moment of birth. I am going to play the 5 cent shrink here,and say it comes from every Russian but Royalty in all the history of Russia was born as a serf with no actual rights other than the right to die or be enslaved in a labor camp if they protest.

The typical westerner can't even begin to imagine the daily reality  the typical Russian (AND Chinese) citizen grew up to accept as "just another day at the office". When I say they had a "lack of freedom",I mean a TOTAL lack of individual freedoms. They were nothing but tools of the state,and they didn't know any better than to accept that.

Any that didn't,immediately became an "enemy of the state" and most would spend the rest of their short lives in labor camps or as test subjects for medical research.

And the important,and damn near impossible part of this for a westerner to understand was they took this for granted and didn't see it as a big deal. They were flat-out OWNED by their Soviet Masters,and since they had no choice,accepted it as normal.

Royalty saw them all as nothing more than useful tools,and the Russian leaders still see them this way.

ANY western leader would be horrified by all the losses the Russians have suffered if they were their troops,but with the Russian leadership seeing their troops as nothing more than pawns,all it does is make them want to double-down. After all,THEY,personally are not threatened and are not going to be threatened in any way,even if the peons get fed up and decide to revolt. They will just get on their private jets or private yachts,and tool off to someplace with the billions they will steal/have stolen from the treasury.

And we ALL know that there is no such thing as a human being being so vile that Billions of dollars won't buy or rent them all the friends they need.

Hell,I wouldn't doubt that Putin has enough money stashed away in foreign bank accounts that there are several small nations he could just buy and then have a safe place to live.

I was actually thinking/hoping that the insanity attached to the massive losses of Russian troops would have already had him and the Politburo declaring victory and retreating back to Russia,but I now think this fool plans on the fighting going on until the last Russian soldier dies,if that is what it takes.

After all,there is NOTHING more important to the typical Russian male than his personal pride. Hell,it was practically the only thing the Soviet Masters allowed them to "own".

AND....,once again,THIS FORM OF SLAVERY HAS BEEN TRUE FOR THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE RUSSIAN NATION.  It is/was literally the only way they knew to live.

I can only hope that foreign diplomats with trusted connections within the Politburo have been whispering 'Revolution" in their ears. These people no doubt have MASSIVE ego's,but if they weren't clever enough to have been obsessed with personal safety they would have never risen to the offices they now hold.

There has been plenty of whispers about Putin having bad health,and the time has come and passed for the movers and shakers in the Politburo to take him out of office,if for no other reason than to save themselves and their own positions,or POSSIBLY face another Russian Revolution.

After all,the typical Russian citizen of today is nowhere near as ignorant of world events and reality as their grandparents were,and it is the sons and fathers of these typical citizens that are doing all the fighting and dying,not the Politburo members or their relatives.

The worse part about this IMNSHO,is that they have been conditioned to be obedient to the system that even though they now KNOW they have been screwed for all of their history,it is hard to break the "obedient to authority" conditioning they have all grown up with.

One other thing I am growing more and more sure about every day is that if Russia isn't stopped NOW,and Putin removed from power,there WILL be another world war because getting away with this will only encourage them to go for more.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 07, 2022, 03:00:36 am
In the same light .... the best way to end the aggressive invasion at our border IS to defeat them as well.  Just sayin'.

Yes, Ukraine/Ruissa needs to stop, but we need to secure our own country!!!

That is about the weakest response a poster could make. Find a different topic everyone agrees with and ignore the original discussion.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 07, 2022, 03:02:49 am
Most important of the TWO, is securing our own borders!!  If we can spend billions on Ukraine/Russia war, we can spend billions on securing our own country!!!

 :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

Another silly response, change the topic because the side you are trying to defend (appeasement) really is not defensible.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on June 07, 2022, 03:17:08 am
I am personally calling my Congressman and urging him to print another $100 Billion Dollars for 'you know' ... Ukraine and stuff, sort of. Hey! Let's print $1000 Billion Dollars for Ukraine! I advocate moving the U.S. Federal Mint directly to Ukraine. And to just print as much money as they want. Hell man, let's just give them all our money. Ukraine is the most important thing happening in America today!!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 07, 2022, 07:31:53 am
In the same light .... the best way to end the aggressive invasion at our border IS to defeat them as well.  Just sayin'.

Yes, Ukraine/Ruissa needs to stop, but we need to secure our own country!!!
If we had an administration that could walk and chew gum at the same time, we could do both.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 07, 2022, 11:18:52 am
Let's stick to the subject of Ukraine.  Plenty of threads about the invasion we have at the southern border....
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 07, 2022, 12:32:19 pm
I think this is a message from Putin to show how much contempt he has for Ukrainians.  Putin has bombed civilian population centers in Ukraine for 102 consecutive days.  Today, Ukrainian women and children would have lost their lives to Russian artillery, bombs, rockets, and missiles regardless of what Biden did.  Killing civilians and destroying Ukrainian population centers are what Putin does.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 07, 2022, 12:36:21 pm
Good news; another Russian nazi shot dead:

Russian Wagner mercenary known as 'The Executioner' for butchering prisoners of war is shot dead by a Ukrainian sniper in latest blow to Putin's invasion

By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
7 June 2022

A Russian mercenary who gained notoriety for butchering prisoners of war and civilians in the Donbas has been killed fighting in Ukraine.

Vladimir Andonov, 44, a fighter for the shadowy Wagner Group, was shot by a sniper near Kharkiv during a reconnaissance missions on June 5, Russian media says.

Andonov was known to Russians as 'Vakha' or 'the volunteer from Buryatia' after the region he was from, but to Ukrainians as 'the executioner' for massacres he helped carry out during Russia's first invasion of the country in 2014.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10891847/Ukraine-war-Russian-Wagner-mercenary-Vladimir-executioner-Andonov-killed-near-Kharkiv.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 07, 2022, 12:38:41 pm
Putin loses his 50th colonel of Ukraine invasion after two generals were killed in one day - as Russian death toll 'passes 31,000'

By Will Stewart and Jack Newman For Mailonline
7 June 2022

Russia has lost its 50th colonel of the war in Ukraine in the latest hammer blow to the Kremlin, with the death toll now soaring past 31,000.

Artillery commander Lt Col Vladimir Nigmatullin, a 46-year-old father-of-three from Yekaterinburg, was killed on May 31, it has now been revealed.

Nigmatullin's death has been confirmed to his family, adding to the huge list of casualties of Russia's military leaders, with one colonel killed every two days.

It comes after Vladimir Putin lost two of his most senior commanders in a single day in a devastating bridge ambush in eastern Ukraine, a group of independent journalists claimed.

Nigmatullin's sister-in-law Marina Konyukhova said: 'Eternal memory, darling, dear, much-loved man, you passed away.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10892419/Putin-loses-50th-colonel-Ukraine-invasion-Russian-death-toll-passes-31-000.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 07, 2022, 05:32:23 pm
If so, the best response is to send the missiles today!

The best way to end the barbaric aggression of the Russians is to defeat them.

The EU should do this, not us.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 07, 2022, 05:38:19 pm
That is about the weakest response a poster could make. Find a different topic everyone agrees with and ignore the original discussion.

No, it's not.  We need every dime we have to stop this invasion.  We can't afford  both, so it's time to choose.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUl6wtvWAAErNgP?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 07, 2022, 05:53:12 pm
Good news; another Russian nazi shot dead:

Russian Wagner mercenary known as 'The Executioner' for butchering prisoners of war is shot dead by a Ukrainian sniper in latest blow to Putin's invasion

By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
7 June 2022

A Russian mercenary who gained notoriety for butchering prisoners of war and civilians in the Donbas has been killed fighting in Ukraine.

Vladimir Andonov, 44, a fighter for the shadowy Wagner Group, was shot by a sniper near Kharkiv during a reconnaissance missions on June 5, Russian media says.

Andonov was known to Russians as 'Vakha' or 'the volunteer from Buryatia' after the region he was from, but to Ukrainians as 'the executioner' for massacres he helped carry out during Russia's first invasion of the country in 2014.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10891847/Ukraine-war-Russian-Wagner-mercenary-Vladimir-executioner-Andonov-killed-near-Kharkiv.html
This sort of action is the Ukraine's best hope. Target any and all officers and noncoms to place the conscripts in disarray and to reduce morale. If someone shows any sign of knowing what they are doing, kill them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 07, 2022, 05:54:46 pm
No, it's not.  We need every dime we have to stop this invasion.  We can't afford  both, so it's time to choose.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUl6wtvWAAErNgP?format=jpg&name=small)
We can afford both.

Just stop paying for them to be shipped all over the US and slash the welfare benefits being used to lure them here. The savings would pay to complete and patrol the wall.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 07, 2022, 06:41:20 pm
We can afford both.

Just stop paying for them to be shipped all over the US and slash the welfare benefits being used to lure them here. The savings would pay to complete and patrol the wall.

Nope.  Not enough.  Shoring up Ukraine is going to help destroy this country in more ways than one.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 07, 2022, 07:30:56 pm
I am personally calling my Congressman and urging him to print another $100 Billion Dollars for 'you know' ... Ukraine and stuff, sort of. Hey! Let's print $1000 Billion Dollars for Ukraine! I advocate moving the U.S. Federal Mint directly to Ukraine. And to just print as much money as they want. Hell man, let's just give them all our money. Ukraine is the most important thing happening in America today!!

 888high58888
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 07, 2022, 07:32:45 pm
 888high58888
No, it's not.  We need every dime we have to stop this invasion.  We can't afford  both, so it's time to choose.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUl6wtvWAAErNgP?format=jpg&name=small)

Absolutely agree.  What do you think these little darlings are going to do to our country??  We'll be fighting in our backyards!!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 07, 2022, 07:34:35 pm
Another silly response, change the topic because the side you are trying to defend (appeasement) really is not defensible.

Obviously, you feel that the war between Ukraine and Russia is more important and our fight and the heck with securing our own country.  Got it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 07, 2022, 07:42:13 pm
Let's stick to the subject of Ukraine.  Plenty of threads about the invasion we have at the southern border....

 :patriot:  :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 07, 2022, 07:49:26 pm
Nope.  Not enough.  Shoring up Ukraine is going to help destroy this country in more ways than one.
How much are we (taxpayers) shelling out for thee incentivizing, admission, distribution, and support of the millions of illegals this administration is waving across the border?

One million illegals (already exceeded) times only $5,000.00 is five Billion dollars. That's enough to build the wall, and that's a lowball estimate of what we're shelling out just to get them in an apartment somewhere, not the ongoing cost to support them.  The more the border is closed, the higher the savings with which to close the rest, and then we can send their asses home.

But, as you well know, a government that can 'afford' to print trillions it does not have can afford to do whatever it wants, and closing the border doesn't make the current management's to-do list.

If it did, a go fund me would pay the contractors to build it, even if they picked up the help at Home Depot.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 07, 2022, 07:57:03 pm
How much are we (taxpayers) shelling out for thee incentivizing, admission, distribution, and support of the millions of illegals this administration is waving across the border?

One million illegals (already exceeded) times only $5,000.00 is five Billion dollars. That's enough to build the wall, and that's a lowball estimate of what we're shelling out just to get them in an apartment somewhere, not the ongoing cost to support them.  The more the border is closed, the higher the savings with which to close the rest, and then we can send their asses home.

But, as you well know, a government that can 'afford' to print trillions it does not have can afford to do whatever it wants, and closing the border doesn't make the current management's to-do list.

If it did, a go fund me would pay the contractors to build it, even if they picked up the help at Home Depot.

@Smokin Joe you are correct; all the $$$ that is going to be spent caring for them once the are in our country will be unsustainable;  medical, housing, food, etc.

Combine that will the billions upon billions that we are giving to Ukraine, and it is a recipe for an absolute economic collapse.

The economic impact is one thing, the assault on our culture and our safety is going to be a whole other ballgame.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 07, 2022, 09:29:22 pm
The drone that saved Kyiv was piloted by a 15-year-old boy

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
June 7, 2022

The column of Russian military vehicles that bore down on Kyiv in the early days of the war was brought to a smoldering halt because a 15-year-old boy was helping to aim Ukrainian artillery.

Ukrainian teenager Andrii Pokrasa flew his drone over the Russian forces, relaying photos and coordinates to artillery units, effectively saving the capital city in late February, Canadian outlet Global News reported.

“He’s a real hero, a hero of Ukraine,” Yurii Kasjanov, a commander with Ukraine’s unmanned recon unit, told the outlet. “He was the only one who was experienced with drones in that region.”

Pokrasa said he was approached by Ukraine’s civil defense when they were looking for the exact coordinates of the Russian column.

“They provided us information where approximately the Russian column could be. Our goal was to find the exact coordinates and provide the coordinates to the soldiers,” he said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/the-drone-that-saved-kyiv-was-piloted-by-a-15-year-old-boy/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 07, 2022, 10:53:53 pm

Andonov was known to Russians as 'Vakha' or 'the volunteer from Buryatia' after the region he was from, but to Ukrainians as 'the executioner' for massacres he helped carry out during Russia's first invasion of the country in 2014.

@Kamaji

This is how the old Soviets and the Neo-Soviets have always waged war. All anyone who doesn't believe this has to do to get their eyes opened it to look at films of the Red Army entering Berlin.

"Rabid Animal Brutality" is pretty damn close to being THE perfect description.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 07, 2022, 11:48:24 pm
@Smokin Joe you are correct; all the $$$ that is going to be spent caring for them once the are in our country will be unsustainable;  medical, housing, food, etc.

Combine that will the billions upon billions that we are giving to Ukraine, and it is a recipe for an absolute economic collapse.

The economic impact is one thing, the assault on our culture and our safety is going to be a whole other ballgame.
The seeds of our economic collapse have been sown in the absolute war on energy--energy crucial to producing, mining, manufacturing, processing and transporting everything but the lies on TV (and, actually, even those).

As those costs increase, the cost of all else will also, that increase enhanced by the inflationary pressure of trillions of dollars in money created for causes it will never go to, siphoned off to import and distribute illegal immigrants throughout the country, not starving children, but nearly all fit young men of military age. We are witnessing the greatest criminal enterprise in history in action, because all of it is stealing from us.

Not for one second does it matter where they say the funding is going, most of it will never get there--it will be skimmed off by the crooks and cronies of the current Administration here.

If our Southern Border is to be controlled, it will be because an overwhelming number of Americans will go there, and be ready to defend not only this country but their own backs against the likes of this regime, with whatever force is necessary. But I have little doubt that the Administration would call in air strikes and use armed drones with all the gadgets we have bought, not to defend the border against invasion, but to combat any ad hoc force of Americans who intended to do so.

It will be that ad hoc force, or a change in management that will stop that invasion, and nothing else.

Biden is one of the creators of this problem (with Obama), one from which we had hopes of a respite while Trump was in office, but renewed with greater vigor once Biden got in. No money sent to the border now will accomplish anything, and the current Executive Branch will see to that, even down to waging war on Americans defending our country. Just one more reason they want our guns.

In the meantime, there is the opportunity to aid the Ukrainians in the attrition of the Russian force structure, and taking advantage of that while the will is there to do so is unlikely to be a regrettable act, so long as we and NATO avoid direct involvement in combat with the Russians and we can keep our troops out of it, despite the ravings of the Puppet in Chief.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 08, 2022, 12:15:17 am
Obviously, you feel that the war between Ukraine and Russia is more important and our fight and the heck with securing our own country.  Got it.

Clearly you don't "get it".

All the pro appeasement crowd is doing is conflating one issue with another.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 08, 2022, 12:29:43 am
The EU should do this, not us.

@Right_in_Virginia

Close,but no cigar. ALL free states should join with our efforts to stop Neo-Soviet aggression by handing them their asses in a bucket.

NOTHING in life is free with the possible exception of grief,and even then we end up paying for it one way or another.

EVERY nation and peoples who are free and who want to remain free should take part at whatever level,EXCEPT assault combat troops,to make sure the Neo-Soviets lose this war they started so badly that they are never tempted to try it again.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 08, 2022, 12:31:34 am
I am personally calling my Congressman and urging him to print another $100 Billion Dollars for 'you know' ... Ukraine and stuff, sort of. Hey! Let's print $1000 Billion Dollars for Ukraine! I advocate moving the U.S. Federal Mint directly to Ukraine. And to just print as much money as they want.

That's a terrible idea.  If the money is printed in Ukraine, then the regime heads will have to figure out a way to ship it back.  When the money is printed here (like it is now), the money is already in the place where it will end up regardless of where they claim it will go.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 08, 2022, 12:40:20 am
One other thing I am growing more and more sure about every day is that if Russia isn't stopped NOW,and Putin removed from power, there WILL be another world war because getting away with this will only encourage them to go for more.

@sneakypete

To quote ABBA:  "The history book on the shelf is always repeating itself"
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 08, 2022, 12:44:11 am
Obviously, you feel that the war between Ukraine and Russia is more important and our fight and the heck with securing our own country.  Got it.

I'll take 'Logical Fallacies' for $400, Alex.

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5b/68/88/5b6888d51503a7dbccedb0098769b5ab.png)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 08, 2022, 12:46:28 am
Good news; another Russian nazi shot dead:

Funny how all the nazis are fighting for Putin.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 08, 2022, 01:03:04 am
Funny how all the nazis are fighting for Putin.

@Hoodat

Well,after all,"Communism" is nothing but another word for "National Socialism."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 08, 2022, 01:14:18 am
The seeds of our economic collapse have been sown in the absolute war on energy--energy crucial to producing, mining, manufacturing, processing and transporting everything but the lies on TV (and, actually, even those).

As those costs increase, the cost of all else will also, that increase enhanced by the inflationary pressure of trillions of dollars in money created for causes it will never go to, siphoned off to import and distribute illegal immigrants throughout the country, not starving children, but nearly all fit young men of military age. We are witnessing the greatest criminal enterprise in history in action, because all of it is stealing from us.

Not for one second does it matter where they say the funding is going, most of it will never get there--it will be skimmed off by the crooks and cronies of the current Administration here.

If our Southern Border is to be controlled, it will be because an overwhelming number of Americans will go there, and be ready to defend not only this country but their own backs against the likes of this regime, with whatever force is necessary. But I have little doubt that the Administration would call in air strikes and use armed drones with all the gadgets we have bought, not to defend the border against invasion, but to combat any ad hoc force of Americans who intended to do so.

It will be that ad hoc force, or a change in management that will stop that invasion, and nothing else.

Biden is one of the creators of this problem (with Obama), one from which we had hopes of a respite while Trump was in office, but renewed with greater vigor once Biden got in. No money sent to the border now will accomplish anything, and the current Executive Branch will see to that, even down to waging war on Americans defending our country. Just one more reason they want our guns.

In the meantime, there is the opportunity to aid the Ukrainians in the attrition of the Russian force structure, and taking advantage of that while the will is there to do so is unlikely to be a regrettable act, so long as we and NATO avoid direct involvement in combat with the Russians and we can keep our troops out of it, despite the ravings of the Puppet in Chief.

Of course our own government would deter us from securing our own borders; it's been happening.

As for the Russo Ukraine war,  I'm afraid that U.S. troops will eventually be directly involved.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 08, 2022, 01:15:18 am
Funny how all the nazis are fighting for Putin.

yup
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 08, 2022, 01:37:34 am
Of course our own government would deter us from securing our own borders; it's been happening.

As for the Russo Ukraine war,  I'm afraid that U.S. troops will eventually be directly involved.
If the Ukrainians are defeated, eventually we will be directly involved, because of our treaty obligations With NATO countries.  But as a result of the present conflict the opposing forces would be short command and noncom elements lost in this conflict, along with the tremendous amount of equipment destroyed or captured so far in this conflict.
Here, at least, the Ukrainians are willing to fight for their country, and need to be supplied materiel, not manpower to do so, and I'm all for giving them the tools to fight.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 08, 2022, 01:47:23 am
If the Ukrainians are defeated, eventually we will be directly involved, because of our treaty obligations With NATO countries.  But as a result of the present conflict the opposing forces would be short command and noncom elements lost in this conflict, along with the tremendous amount of equipment destroyed or captured so far in this conflict.
Here, at least, the Ukrainians are willing to fight for their country, and need to be supplied materiel, not manpower to do so, and I'm all for giving them the tools to fight.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 08, 2022, 02:20:20 am
Severodonetsk becomes a huge mass grave for Russian army and Kadyrovites

Иван Яковина  |  7 June, 12:49 PM

Russian dictator Vladimir Putin needed propaganda success, so he demanded that his army capture the Luhansk Oblast. However, the city of Severodonetsk turned out to be a trap set by the Ukrainian military.


International observer Ivan Yakovina shared with Radio NV on June 6 what happened on the Luhansk axis over the past week, and how Russians have reacted to these developments. The following is an edited transcript of his briefing.  .  .

.  .  .  Putin needs a propaganda win, and therefore he wants his army to capture Lysychansk and Severodonetsk as soon as possible.

Since their encirclement (of Ukraine’s Joint Forces Operation) failed, Russia threw all its troops into a frontal assault, first on Severodonetsk.

This attack was quite successful. A few days ago, it was announced that 70-80% of Severodonetsk was captured, that the Ukrainian army was retreating, that it was evacuating across the Siverskyi Donets River to Lysychansk.

On June 4, reports began to appear that everything was not as bad as it seemed. And the day after, it became clear that the Ukrainian army had prepared an ambush there.  .  .  .

https://english.nv.ua/nation/severodonetsk-as-huge-mass-grave-for-russian-army-and-kadyrovites-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-50248122.html



While I don't believe claims that this battle is a "decisive defeat" for Russia, it is clear that it has not been a success either.  A few days ago, the talk was about how Ukraine would abandon Severodonetsk to avoid being surrounded as Russian troops made a swift advance into the city.  Now we see Russian troops retreating.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 08, 2022, 02:39:56 am
@Right_in_Virginia

Close,but no cigar. ALL free states should join with our efforts to stop Neo-Soviet aggression by handing them their asses in a bucket.

EVERY nation and peoples who are free and who want to remain free should take part at whatever level,EXCEPT assault combat troops,to make sure the Neo-Soviets lose this war they started so badly that they are never tempted to try it again.

@sneakypete

What about Iran's aggression .... is this worth stopping?  Or the hot mess in Syria....shouldn't we be actively securing freedom there, too?   And what about China and Taiwan?  Sure looks like China's gearing up for some aggression there.  Shouldn't we be mobilizing by now?

I do not understand our obsession with Europe.  There's really no difference between the Middle East's lust for tribal warfare and Europe's ------ it's been going on for centuries and will continue for centuries.  We are not going to stop it---war is embedded in Europe's blood.

Let Europe handle this --- it's what they live for.

Let's turn our full attention and wallet to saving our own nation.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 08, 2022, 02:43:08 am
@sneakypete

What about Iran's aggression .... is this worth stopping?  Or the hot mess in Syria....shouldn't we be actively securing freedom there, too?

If they are invading neighboring countries, committing war crimes and atrocities, creating global insecurity, and threatening our allies, heck yes.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 08, 2022, 03:14:38 am
@sneakypete

What about Iran's aggression .... is this worth stopping?  Or the hot mess in Syria....shouldn't we be actively securing freedom there, too?   And what about China and Taiwan?  Sure looks like China's gearing up for some aggression there.  Shouldn't we be mobilizing by now?


@Right_in_Virginia

Remind me which of those nations has the ability to start a world war?

Other than China,of course,and they are too busy doing stuff like replacing American workers with slave laborers earning less than minimum wage by doing stuff like building auto transmissions for GM .


I do not understand our obsession with Europe.

Clearly.

 There's really no difference between the Middle East's lust for tribal warfare and Europe's ------

Every heard of those little things like nuclear weapons and soldiers that actually know how to read and write?

 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 08, 2022, 03:46:29 am
@Hoodat

Naw,it's just "stoopid Russian Macho Bush". Never met a Russian that didn't have an inferiority complex,for damn good historic reasons,and I have met more than a few. Oddly enough,this trait seems to pass through to at least two generations that are born in the west.

Yes,it IS "stoopid",but make no mistake about it,it is also extremely dangerous because these goobers just don't have enough common sense to know when to back off. All their lives they have been indoctrinated into "Defending Holy Mother Russia",and it is one of the very few things that was accepted by the authorities.

In Russia,and those who were born and who grow up in Russia,an inferiority comes at the moment of birth. I am going to play the 5 cent shrink here,and say it comes from every Russian but Royalty in all the history of Russia was born as a serf with no actual rights other than the right to die or be enslaved in a labor camp if they protest.

The typical westerner can't even begin to imagine the daily reality  the typical Russian (AND Chinese) citizen grew up to accept as "just another day at the office". When I say they had a "lack of freedom",I mean a TOTAL lack of individual freedoms. They were nothing but tools of the state,and they didn't know any better than to accept that.

Any that didn't,immediately became an "enemy of the state" and most would spend the rest of their short lives in labor camps or as test subjects for medical research.

And the important,and damn near impossible part of this for a westerner to understand was they took this for granted and didn't see it as a big deal. They were flat-out OWNED by their Soviet Masters,and since they had no choice,accepted it as normal.

Royalty saw them all as nothing more than useful tools,and the Russian leaders still see them this way.

ANY western leader would be horrified by all the losses the Russians have suffered if they were their troops,but with the Russian leadership seeing their troops as nothing more than pawns,all it does is make them want to double-down. After all,THEY,personally are not threatened and are not going to be threatened in any way,even if the peons get fed up and decide to revolt. They will just get on their private jets or private yachts,and tool off to someplace with the billions they will steal/have stolen from the treasury.

And we ALL know that there is no such thing as a human being being so vile that Billions of dollars won't buy or rent them all the friends they need.

Hell,I wouldn't doubt that Putin has enough money stashed away in foreign bank accounts that there are several small nations he could just buy and then have a safe place to live.

I was actually thinking/hoping that the insanity attached to the massive losses of Russian troops would have already had him and the Politburo declaring victory and retreating back to Russia,but I now think this fool plans on the fighting going on until the last Russian soldier dies,if that is what it takes.

After all,there is NOTHING more important to the typical Russian male than his personal pride. Hell,it was practically the only thing the Soviet Masters allowed them to "own".

AND....,once again,THIS FORM OF SLAVERY HAS BEEN TRUE FOR THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE RUSSIAN NATION.  It is/was literally the only way they knew to live.

I can only hope that foreign diplomats with trusted connections within the Politburo have been whispering 'Revolution" in their ears. These people no doubt have MASSIVE ego's,but if they weren't clever enough to have been obsessed with personal safety they would have never risen to the offices they now hold.

There has been plenty of whispers about Putin having bad health,and the time has come and passed for the movers and shakers in the Politburo to take him out of office,if for no other reason than to save themselves and their own positions,or POSSIBLY face another Russian Revolution.

After all,the typical Russian citizen of today is nowhere near as ignorant of world events and reality as their grandparents were,and it is the sons and fathers of these typical citizens that are doing all the fighting and dying,not the Politburo members or their relatives.

The worse part about this IMNSHO,is that they have been conditioned to be obedient to the system that even though they now KNOW they have been screwed for all of their history,it is hard to break the "obedient to authority" conditioning they have all grown up with.

One other thing I am growing more and more sure about every day is that if Russia isn't stopped NOW,and Putin removed from power,there WILL be another world war because getting away with this will only encourage them to go for more.
@sneakypete

When I first cut the cable TV and had only Prime with a fire stick, I watched a few series from Russia, mainly out of curiosity.One was about a fighter pilot who was a hero, but whose zampolit, out of envy, referred him for disloyalty to the Soviet Union. Of course, he and his family went to prison for a year, and regrettably, while he was found innocent, his wife and kids died in prison.

He, however was found to be loyal to the Soviet Union and was reinstated as a fighter pilot, still loyal to the State, of course.

While an American, especially having lost his wife and kids over a jealous political officer, might take that plane and sort a few bastards out, the Russian Pilot was grateful to the State for finding him loyal--almost no mention of his losses.

The Czarist Russian/Soviet/'post-communist' Russian people have always been treated like livestock to some extent by their political masters, from what I can see.

Unfortunately, the people pulling strings here, on both sides of the pond, are not altruistic Americans, but somehow either intellectually or biologically inbred results of generations of people marrying their own cousins, punctuated by sheer cunning and ruthlessness, but a far cry from the more egalitarian concept of 'all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights'.

In their mindset, they have some sort of birthright to it all, and you and I have none but to be their pawns, their serfs, cannon fodder and trading chits in the grand scheme of things that enriches them and cares bugger-all about us. Multi-generational economic success has convinced them that this is true, even if that game is as rigged as the 2020 elections, and their toadying minions do all in their power to ensure that success (or suffer the consequences).

Where I am going with this is pretty simple. The first battle anyone has to fight in their quest for Liberty and fundamental human dignity is the one against themselves. They have to believe that they somehow deserve the basic human Rights to life, liberty, and property (pursuit of happiness), and that no one else has any greater or overwhelming right to that than the individual does.

Our loyalties are placed because we choose to do so, not because we were born tied to a patch of ground, or a certain family, but through our own determination that that is where our loyalty belongs. The trend, even here, however, and especially with the divisiveness of late is to break us down into tribal groups based on skin color, who we F**k, who/what we worship, any dividing line focused on lilliputian differences rather than overwhelming similarities--because otherwise, we cannot be manipulated, controlled, or kept at each other's throats while those who are pulling the strings (doing the manipulating) gorge themselves on a feast of our wealth, labor, even children, for their own appetites.
Two million people have overrun our borders--enough young men of military service age that they could have taken over any of the nice, tropical countries they came from if they had their crap together and a half-assed leader, but they are being led here, manipulated en masse, by whatever means and promises.
Other, more independently thinking people (at least for slavic regions) are being hammered out of that idea by their wannabe Russian overlords, at the behest of a cartel of power brokers who are choreographing the whole show--and ultimately, we are all paying not only for the ticket to the show, but for the concessions, popcorn and a pop, and maybe a candy bar, but for the little people everywhere, it is on our collective tab while others grow rich, if from nothing but skimming the vast funds being tossed about--regardless of what border, where is being violated.
Send bullets, not bucks, to both borders. Inform the stampeding herd on its way here like it was black Friday at the border to just put the brakes on, because one way or another they will be met with a wall, and putting the few women and children in front won't help them any more than it helped the Chinese troops in Korea to march villagers in front of them when advancing on US positions.

It is time we rebel against this manipulation, time to assert our own sovereignty to the degree we are not the chattel of these relatively few people who think they own us--and the essential first step is mental--to free ourselves of being manipulated through some of the loyalties hammered into us from the cradle.
Free people choose who or what they will be loyal to, and go from there.

That said, I believe our Constitution is a framework by which a people, despite their differences can be free, or as close as any have ever been as a large group with a pile of relatively minor differences that can be overcome by the suitable application of human dignity.

The greatest obstacle to achieving that has become our employees who have the temerity to think they are our rulers.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 08, 2022, 12:20:45 pm
Over 1,000 Ukrainian prisoners of war sent to Russia for investigation

By Reuters
June 7, 2022

More than 1,000 Ukrainian soldiers who surrendered in the city of Mariupol have been transferred to Russia for investigation, Tass news agency reported on Tuesday, citing a Russian law enforcement source.

If confirmed, the news could undermine already troubled peace talks between the two sides.

Kyiv is seeking the handover of all the estimated 2,000 defenders from the Azovstal plant in a prisoner swap, but Russian lawmakers have demanded that some of the soldiers be put on trial.

“More than 1000 people from Azovstal were brought to Russia. Law enforcement organs are working with them closely,” Tass quoted the source as saying. It did not give details about what might happen next.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/over-1000-ukrainian-prisoners-of-war-sent-to-russia-for-investigation/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on June 08, 2022, 01:09:47 pm
If they are invading neighboring countries, committing war crimes and atrocities, creating global insecurity, and threatening our allies, heck yes.

Someone seems to forget that we're still (back) in Syria and we were fighting the Iranians via a proxy war. Iran is backing the Houthi rebels and the U.S. was supplying the Saudi's and Jordan and the other countries that were fighting them with equipment much the same way we are with Ukraine.

I say back to Syria because IIRC Trump had us out of there and Biden put us back in there.

And I say was backing the Jordanian's and Saudi's because Puddin' Brain cut off our support and allowed the Houthi's to gain ground.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 08, 2022, 01:29:45 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUrP2m-XoAEZgFD?format=png&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 08, 2022, 05:24:57 pm
If the Ukrainians are defeated, eventually we will be directly involved, because of our treaty obligations With NATO countries.  But as a result of the present conflict the opposing forces would be short command and noncom elements lost in this conflict, along with the tremendous amount of equipment destroyed or captured so far in this conflict.
Here, at least, the Ukrainians are willing to fight for their country, and need to be supplied materiel, not manpower to do so, and I'm all for giving them the tools to fight.

 :amen:

I don't know how many times in how many ways this has been said and still the pro-appeasement crowd doesn't want to understand it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 08, 2022, 07:05:51 pm
Russia cracks down on critics of military actions in Ukraine

June 8, 2022
AP

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian authorities kept up their crackdown against citizens who speak out about the fighting in Ukraine, extending a critic’s detention on Wednesday, confirming charges against two others and prompting Moscow’s chief rabbi to flee the country.

Russia adopted a law criminalizing spreading allegedly false information about its military shortly after its troops rolled into Ukraine in late February. The offense is punishable by up to 15 years in prison. Human rights advocates have counted dozens of cases. Russians must use the term “military operation” when speaking of the fighting in Ukraine.

In the latest development, a Moscow court on Wednesday extended the detention of Vladimir Kara-Murza Jr., a journalist and former associate of assassinated Russian opposition leader Boris Nemtsov. The court extended Kara-Murza’s detention from June 12 to Aug. 12 on accusations that he spread “false information” about the country’s armed forces. The activist rejects the charges.

*  *  *

Source:  https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-entertainment-boris-nemtsov-moscow-8617fefc15e1179fb423cac2d2378fc8
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 08, 2022, 07:40:31 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUrP2m-XoAEZgFD?format=png&name=900x900)

Gee ....'backbone' and thinking of one's own country.  What a concept!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 08, 2022, 07:45:43 pm
:amen:

I don't know how many times in how many ways this has been said and still the pro-appeasement crowd doesn't want to understand it.

No one is suggesting not helping Ukraine with materials, but after spending, billions upon billions when does it end? 

IF we continue to spend billions that we don't have, draw down on our own munitions and continue to leave our borders wide open, we will soon be fighting in our own backyards. If not because of those coming in are from areas of known terrorists meaning to do us harm and connecting with sleeper cells that are already here, then it will be because of complete economic collapse.  Supporting the millions coming into this country is unsustainable. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 08, 2022, 07:50:29 pm
No one is suggesting not helping Ukraine with materials, but after spending, billions upon billions when does it end? 

IF we continue to spend billions that we don't have, draw down on our own munitions and continue to leave our borders wide open, we will soon be fighting in our own backyards. If not because of those coming in are from areas of known terrorists meaning to do us harm and connecting with sleeper cells that are already here, then it will be because of complete economic collapse.  Supporting the millions coming into this country is unsustainable. 

Nonsense.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 08, 2022, 07:57:32 pm
Nonsense.

(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/scared-ostrich-burying-its-head-sand-concept-44635526.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 08, 2022, 08:01:24 pm
Nonsense.

(https://wgbh.brightspotcdn.com/dims4/default/f0a31d0/2147483647/strip/true/crop/4000x3000+0+0/resize/4000x3000!/quality/70/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwgbh-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com%2F15%2Fc4%2F0760e50943d9aac0e17b5e8dce7f%2Fap-18300578388720.jpg)

How many do want to support and take in? 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 08, 2022, 08:04:05 pm
So far we have spent nearly $50B on Ukraine. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/05/17/ukraine-aid-bill-break-down/9674471002/?gnt-cfr=1

In Texas alone, they spend over 850M on illegals a YEAR!  This isn't just a one time cost. 

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-illegal-immigration-costs-texas-taxpayers-over-850-million-each-year
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 08, 2022, 08:11:26 pm
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/scared-ostrich-burying-its-head-sand-concept-44635526.jpg)


Nice selfie.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 08, 2022, 08:17:24 pm
Severodonetsk becomes a huge mass grave for Russian army and Kadyrovites

Иван Яковина  |  7 June, 12:49 PM

Russian dictator Vladimir Putin needed propaganda success, so he demanded that his army capture the Luhansk Oblast. However, the city of Severodonetsk turned out to be a trap set by the Ukrainian military.


International observer Ivan Yakovina shared with Radio NV on June 6 what happened on the Luhansk axis over the past week, and how Russians have reacted to these developments. The following is an edited transcript of his briefing.  .  .

.  .  .  Putin needs a propaganda win, and therefore he wants his army to capture Lysychansk and Severodonetsk as soon as possible.

Since their encirclement (of Ukraine’s Joint Forces Operation) failed, Russia threw all its troops into a frontal assault, first on Severodonetsk.

This attack was quite successful. A few days ago, it was announced that 70-80% of Severodonetsk was captured, that the Ukrainian army was retreating, that it was evacuating across the Siverskyi Donets River to Lysychansk.

On June 4, reports began to appear that everything was not as bad as it seemed. And the day after, it became clear that the Ukrainian army had prepared an ambush there.  .  .  .

https://english.nv.ua/nation/severodonetsk-as-huge-mass-grave-for-russian-army-and-kadyrovites-russia-invasion-of-ukraine-50248122.html



While I don't believe claims that this battle is a "decisive defeat" for Russia, it is clear that it has not been a success either.  A few days ago, the talk was about how Ukraine would abandon Severodonetsk to avoid being surrounded as Russian troops made a swift advance into the city.  Now we see Russian troops retreating.

I suspect there is more truth to this then not. Russia has lost a lot of high level officers and their army doesn't have a strong non-com corps. It may be we are starting to see a swing in Ukraine's favor. It seems they are making progress towards Kherson.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 08, 2022, 08:18:38 pm
What happens to weapons sent to Ukraine? The US doesn't really know

https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/19/politics/us-weapons-ukraine-intelligence/index.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 08, 2022, 08:22:36 pm
@Kamaji

Replenishing US arms supplies a matter of ‘urgency’ amid huge shipments to Ukraine

 The US is expected to amplify its military assistance to Ukraine in the coming days as the Senate is anticipated to pass a bill giving Kyiv billions of additional weapons and military assistance. But the sheer extent of US arms donations has sharply reduced its own supplies – and analysts warn it will take time to replace a lot of this equipment.

Washington has sent more than $3.5 billion worth of arms since Russia invaded – including Javelin anti-tank missiles, shoulder Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, M777 howitzer artillery pieces, and the novel Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost kamikaze-like drone systems. Now the $40 billion bill the House passed on Tuesday will take all this military assistance to another level after its expected passage through the Senate.

The new package includes $6 billion for defence assistance including weapons and training; $8.7 billion to replenish supplies of US military equipment Ukraine has already received; and an extra $11 billion in the Presidential Drawdown Authority, which allows the White House to send emergency supplies without Congress’s green light. Much of the remaining money will go to non-military purposes like humanitarian assistance for refugees and economic help for Ukraine.
Concerns on Capitol Hill

The magnitude of these arms transfers to Ukraine has prompted questions about whether the US is depleting its stockpiles – especially given the need for contingency plans in case tensions with North Korea, Iran or even China spiral out of control.

Two senior House Armed Services Committee members have expressed concern about the US’s Stinger inventory running down. The Pentagon has not purchased any more of them in nearly two decades, while manufacturer Raytheon has warned it has finite supplies of the necessary parts.

The committee’s chairman, Washington Democrat Adam Smith, and its highest-ranking Republican, Mike Rogers of Alabama, wrote to Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley in March, saying that there was an “urgency” to the Stinger inventory issue.....

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20220514-replenishing-us-arms-supplies-a-matter-of-urgency-amid-huge-shipments-to-ukraine
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 08, 2022, 08:27:16 pm
@Kamaji

Replenishing US arms supplies a matter of ‘urgency’ amid huge shipments to Ukraine

 The US is expected to amplify its military assistance to Ukraine in the coming days as the Senate is anticipated to pass a bill giving Kyiv billions of additional weapons and military assistance. But the sheer extent of US arms donations has sharply reduced its own supplies – and analysts warn it will take time to replace a lot of this equipment.

Washington has sent more than $3.5 billion worth of arms since Russia invaded – including Javelin anti-tank missiles, shoulder Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, M777 howitzer artillery pieces, and the novel Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost kamikaze-like drone systems. Now the $40 billion bill the House passed on Tuesday will take all this military assistance to another level after its expected passage through the Senate.

The new package includes $6 billion for defence assistance including weapons and training; $8.7 billion to replenish supplies of US military equipment Ukraine has already received; and an extra $11 billion in the Presidential Drawdown Authority, which allows the White House to send emergency supplies without Congress’s green light. Much of the remaining money will go to non-military purposes like humanitarian assistance for refugees and economic help for Ukraine.
Concerns on Capitol Hill

The magnitude of these arms transfers to Ukraine has prompted questions about whether the US is depleting its stockpiles – especially given the need for contingency plans in case tensions with North Korea, Iran or even China spiral out of control.

Two senior House Armed Services Committee members have expressed concern about the US’s Stinger inventory running down. The Pentagon has not purchased any more of them in nearly two decades, while manufacturer Raytheon has warned it has finite supplies of the necessary parts.

The committee’s chairman, Washington Democrat Adam Smith, and its highest-ranking Republican, Mike Rogers of Alabama, wrote to Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley in March, saying that there was an “urgency” to the Stinger inventory issue.....

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20220514-replenishing-us-arms-supplies-a-matter-of-urgency-amid-huge-shipments-to-ukraine


We aren't going to be fighting hand-to-hand in our back yards because we're supporting Ukraine with arms against the Russian nazis.  There is no need for such silly hyperbole.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on June 08, 2022, 08:53:29 pm
@Kamaji

Replenishing US arms supplies a matter of ‘urgency’ amid huge shipments to Ukraine

 The US is expected to amplify its military assistance to Ukraine in the coming days as the Senate is anticipated to pass a bill giving Kyiv billions of additional weapons and military assistance. But the sheer extent of US arms donations has sharply reduced its own supplies – and analysts warn it will take time to replace a lot of this equipment.

Washington has sent more than $3.5 billion worth of arms since Russia invaded – including Javelin anti-tank missiles, shoulder Stinger anti-aircraft missiles, M777 howitzer artillery pieces, and the novel Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost kamikaze-like drone systems. Now the $40 billion bill the House passed on Tuesday will take all this military assistance to another level after its expected passage through the Senate.

The new package includes $6 billion for defence assistance including weapons and training; $8.7 billion to replenish supplies of US military equipment Ukraine has already received; and an extra $11 billion in the Presidential Drawdown Authority, which allows the White House to send emergency supplies without Congress’s green light. Much of the remaining money will go to non-military purposes like humanitarian assistance for refugees and economic help for Ukraine.
Concerns on Capitol Hill

The magnitude of these arms transfers to Ukraine has prompted questions about whether the US is depleting its stockpiles – especially given the need for contingency plans in case tensions with North Korea, Iran or even China spiral out of control.

Two senior House Armed Services Committee members have expressed concern about the US’s Stinger inventory running down. The Pentagon has not purchased any more of them in nearly two decades, while manufacturer Raytheon has warned it has finite supplies of the necessary parts.

The committee’s chairman, Washington Democrat Adam Smith, and its highest-ranking Republican, Mike Rogers of Alabama, wrote to Defence Secretary Lloyd Austin and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley in March, saying that there was an “urgency” to the Stinger inventory issue.....

https://www.france24.com/en/americas/20220514-replenishing-us-arms-supplies-a-matter-of-urgency-amid-huge-shipments-to-ukraine

(https://andmagazine.com/talk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/ipiccy_image-20.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 09, 2022, 12:45:50 am
Hey, hey, hey!  No sniping between Members!  I have too much fun on these threads otherwise....
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 09, 2022, 12:56:22 am
I don't know how many times in how many ways this has been said and still the pro-appeasement crowd doesn't want to understand it.

OMG... stop, just stop.

This isn't Hitler marching through Europe.  Hell, it isn't even Russia marching through Ukraine. It's an eight year old border conflict no one in Europe really cares about.  The dirty little secret is no one there wants the Ukraine ----- not NATO, not the EU.  All they want from this is a larger laudromat.

This is most certainly not our fight so stop, just stop, trying to turn this into an actual war with your flashbacks to the 1930s.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 09, 2022, 01:13:40 am
OMG... stop, just stop.

This isn't Hitler marching through Europe.  Hell, it isn't even Russia marching through Ukraine. It's an eight year old border conflict no one in Europe really cares about.  The dirty little secret is no one there wants the Ukraine ----- not NATO, not the EU.  All they want from this is a larger laudromat.

This is most certainly not our fight so stop, just stop, trying to turn this into an actual war with your flashbacks to the 1930s.

Amen!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on June 09, 2022, 01:26:42 am
OMG... stop, just stop.

This isn't Hitler marching through Europe.  Hell, it isn't even Russia marching through Ukraine. It's an eight year old border conflict no one in Europe really cares about.  The dirty little secret is no one there wants the Ukraine ----- not NATO, not the EU.  All they want from this is a larger laudromat.

This is most certainly not our fight so stop, just stop, trying to turn this into an actual war with your flashbacks to the 1930s.

LOL...

A "border conflict" where they were invaded from the south, north and east in attempted to consume their entire country and replace its leadership with a Russian based government...

That's some "border conflict"...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 09, 2022, 01:28:17 am
So far we have spent nearly $50B on Ukraine. 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/05/17/ukraine-aid-bill-break-down/9674471002/?gnt-cfr=1

In Texas alone, they spend over 850M on illegals a YEAR!  This isn't just a one time cost. 

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/news/releases/ag-paxton-illegal-immigration-costs-texas-taxpayers-over-850-million-each-year
I thoroughly agree that something needs to be done about the Biden sponsored invasion of not just Texas, but the whole United States.

However, with the blatant contempt this Administration has shown for the idea of actually upholding the Law and stopping this invasion, to the point it has violated the terms of the very Constitution by not only not protecting the states from invasion, but aiding and abetting the invaders, do any of us think for even one second that any monies appropriated for the purpose of enhancing border security will actually be spent on that mission?

It isn't happening. Short of an ad hoc army of Americans to defend our borders, those still trying to fulfill the mission they have sworn to do are without backup FROM THE HIGHEST LEVELS.

What is happening at the border is exactly what Biden & Co. have set up and desire.

This is treason, no other word for it.

And while practical tourists are held in solitary in the DC gulag, for setting foot in a building that theoretically they are part owners of, those who have no business crossing the border invade with impunity and support FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

At least a trickle of aid is getting to Ukraine, unlike the border towns of Texas and other states, and no matter how much money is pledged to secure the border, it just isn't happening, by orders form the top..
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 09, 2022, 01:39:07 am
I thoroughly agree that something needs to be done about the Biden sponsored invasion of not just Texas, but the whole United States.

However, with the blatant contempt this Administration has shown for the idea of actually upholding the Law and stopping this invasion, to the point it has violated the terms of the very Constitution by not only not protecting the states from invasion, but aiding and abetting the invaders, do any of us think for even one second that any monies appropriated for the purpose of enhancing border security will actually be spent on that mission?

It isn't happening. Short of an ad hoc army of Americans to defend our borders, those still trying to fulfill the mission they have sworn to do are without backup FROM THE HIGHEST LEVELS.

What is happening at the border is exactly what Biden & Co. have set up and desire.

This is treason, no other word for it.

And while practical tourists are held in solitary in the DC gulag, for setting foot in a building that theoretically they are part owners of, those who have no business crossing the border invade with impunity and support FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

At least a trickle of aid is getting to Ukraine, unlike the border towns of Texas and other states, and no matter how much money is pledged to secure the border, it just isn't happening, by orders form the top..

Yes, truly a crisis in more ways than one!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 06:14:15 am
Hell, it isn't even Russia marching through Ukraine.

False.


It's an eight year old border conflict no one in Europe really cares about.

False.


The dirty little secret is no one there wants the Ukraine ----- not NATO, not the EU.

False.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 06:15:48 am
LOL...

A "border conflict" where they were invaded from the south, north and east in attempted to consume their entire country and replace its leadership with a Russian based government...

That's some "border conflict"...

Yep.  And no matter how many times this lie is exposed, it keeps getting repeated.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 06:37:12 am
just stop, trying to turn this into an actual war with your flashbacks to the 1930s.

Speaking of flashbacks to WWII, here's what they are discussing on Russian TV today - whether two POWs from 'the British Empire' should be shot, hanged, or drawn and quartered, because that's how they did it back in the early 1940s.

https://redd.it/v7win4
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 07:03:02 am
Russian Officials Take Office in Separatist Eastern Ukraine

one hour ago


(https://static.themoscowtimes.com/image/article_1360/9f/TASS_53076022.jpg)
United Russia Party General Council Secretary Andrei Turchak, St Petersburg Governor Alexander Beglov
and Donetsk People's Republic leader Denis Pushilin (L-R front).Nikolai Trishin/TASS


Senior Russian government officials have for the first time been appointed as members of eastern Ukraine's Donetsk People's Republic (DNR) separatist administration amid growing signs that Russia could permanently occupy captured territories during the invasion.

DNR leader Denis Pushilin named former Russian Industry and Trade Ministry department head Vitaly Khotsenko as the head of the breakaway region's so-called Council of Ministers. 

Russian media say Khotsenko, 36, is the first high-ranking Russian government official to hold public office in the DNR.

Born in central Ukraine's city of Dnipro, Khotsenko had served as energy minister in southern Russia's Stavropol region and, since 2019, head of industrial policy and project management in the Russian Trade Ministry.

Pushilin, who announced the reshuffle on Wednesday, named two other senior Russian officials as Khotsenko's deputies.

Yevgeny Solntsev had served as adviser to Russia's Construction, Housing and Utilities Minister, while Alexander Kostomarov was deputy governor of western Russia's Lipetsk and Ulyanovsk regions.

Pushilin said the new executive team faces a "broad range" of tasks, including post-war reconstruction and "integration" with Russia.  .  .

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/09/russian-officials-take-office-in-separatist-eastern-ukraine-a77944



Russian puppets are now being replaced by real live Russians.  So let's stop with the lies about Donetsk being an 'independent state'.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: jafo2010 on June 09, 2022, 07:05:35 am
Naked aggression executed by Putin, or by Hitler, what is the difference?  NONE!!!

Putin has sold Russia on the notion that he is rescuing folks of Russian heritage living in Ukraine.  And from all I have read, there may well be some truth in that.  But his attacking the entire country of Ukraine had but one objective, to capture the country and control the vast mineral wealth of the Ukraine for him and a handful of oligarchs.  Regardless of the reason,  his efforts were flat out wrong.

The general population of Russia is NOT being told of the huge losses of Russian military in Ukraine.  They are being told hundreds have been killed when I have heard numbers in the 25, - 30,000 range.  If this conflict continues, I eventually see the Russian people getting smart about the fact their sons are not coming back, and I fully expect Putin's reign will end soon enough.  However, with his removal, I am not certain Russia and the world will be better off. 

And in the meantime, Ukraine will be left in ruins.  And the USA will be out $100 - 200 billion in taxpayer funds!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 07:44:43 am
Missile hits shopping center in Ukraine's Kharkiv city

Anadolu Agency  |  June 08,2022


(https://ia.tmgrup.com.tr/0a9315/806/378/0/0/800/374?u=https://i.tmgrup.com.tr/anews/v1/2022/06/08/missile-hits-shopping-center-in-ukraines-kharkiv-city-1654685092515.jpg)
A woman takes a picture of a shopping mall damaged by a Russian missile strike, as Russia's attack on Ukraine continues, in Kharkiv, Ukraine June 8, 2022 (REUTERS)

A shopping center in Ukraine's second-largest city of Kharkiv was severely damaged in a missile attack by Russian forces, the mall's director said on Wednesday.

The building of the mall, Vostorg, was partially destroyed in the attack, but there were no casualties.

Svetlana Giulina told Anadolu Agency that Russian forces hit the mall with missiles Tuesday midnight, and "hit this building directly."

Despite the attack, she added that they will try reopening the center by next week.  .  .  .

https://www.anews.com.tr/world/2022/06/08/missile-hits-shopping-center-in-ukraines-kharkiv-city



Russia continues its war on Ukrainian civilians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 09, 2022, 11:26:59 am
Naked aggression executed by Putin, or by Hitler, what is the difference?  NONE!!!

I think this comparison is apples to oranges @jafo2010  While there is no doubt there is a legacy link between Russia and the people living in the separatist Republics or Russia's eye is on the natural resources and industry of the region, this confict is not the same as Hitler's wanton aggression.

Kiev had eight years to settle this separation, if not perfectly, at least to its satisfaction.  It was in their best interest to do so.

But after Minsk II fell apart in 2015, Kiev gave up negotiating with the region (as did the EU), washed its hands of it and settled into seven more years of a relentless military assault of the region ---- giving Russia the opening it needed to take action.  Had it not been for the Trump presidency, Russia would have moved sooner.  Everyone in Europe knew this was coming for years and did everything to promote it and nothing to diffuse it.

So after eight years, In February Putin formally recognized the independence from Kiev of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics --- and here we are.

I also doubt Putin wants Ukraine .... at least not this Ukraine.  I say this with some confidence since no one does, including the EU and NATO.  Ukraine is clearly considered immaterial so something other than "freedom" is at play here.  Maybe sooner rather than later we'll know what that "something" is.

Quote
And in the meantime, Ukraine will be left in ruins.  And the USA will be out $100 - 200 billion in taxpayer funds!

Infuriating and true.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 03:12:58 pm
While there is no doubt there is a legacy link between Russia and the people living in the separatist Republics

The "legacy link" here is that there is over a century of contempt, aggression, persecution, starvation, forced relocation, rape, and murder by Russia against the people living in Ukraine.


or Russia's eye is on the natural resources and industry of the region

La raison d’aller à la guerre.


this confict is not the same as Hitler's wanton aggression.

Hitler invaded Ukraine for the expansion of territory, the vast farming, and for access to the Caucasian oil fields. 
Putin Invaded Ukraine for the expansion of territory, the vast farming, and for access to Ukraine's oil and gas fields.


Kiev had eight years to settle this separation

False.  From Day One, Russia created "the separation", and has interfered every step of the way.  At no point in the last eight years has Ukraine been given the opportunity "to settle", especially considering the presence of Russian troops on Ukrainian soil.


But after Minsk II fell apart in 2015

Minsk II (as well as Minsk I) fell apart because of Russian interference.  Minsk I because of Russia arming pro-Russian forces inside of Ukraine that violated the cease fire with the Donetsk Airport attack, and Minsk II because Russia sanctioned phony elections in Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea that were in violation of Ukraine law.  So let's at least be honest about the cause of the Minsk agreement collapse before using that as a premise.  Russia, Russia, Russia.


Kiev gave up negotiating with the region

What is the point of negotiating with people that are incapable of keeping their word?  Let's not forget that Russia was also a signatory to the Minsk agreements, but was already in violation of them before the ink was dry.


(as did the EU)

Ah yes, the EU.  Let's not forget that Ukraine was already on track to join the EU, and it was Russia that sabotaged that by bribing Yanukovych in 2013.  And let's not forget that it was the impeachment of Yanukovych that triggered Russia's 2014 invasion to begin with.  Russia couldn't handle the fact that the Ukrainian people rejected their puppet leader, so they invaded Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk.


and settled into seven more years of a relentless military assault of the region ---- giving Russia the opening it needed to take action.

A lie.  Russia had already been fully involved for over a year.  The end of negotiations were because of Russian interference.


Had it not been for the Trump presidency, Russia would have moved sooner.

An admission from you that Russia has wanted to annex Ukraine from the beginning.


So after eight years, In February Putin formally recognized the independence from Kiev of the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics --- and here we are.

In word, yes.  But one thing we have learned over the past nine years is that Vladimir Putin is a lying POS.  And in action, it is quite clear that Putin is not recognizing any independence for anyone in Ukraine.  Donetsk is a wasteland, its people slaughtered or driven into exile, its cities leveled.  And the so-called Donetsk 'Republic' [sic] now has a Russian leader hand-picked by Putin.  Seriously.

So no, there is no independence for any territory occupied by Russia.  These occupied territories are undergoing a cultural and ethnic genocide where Ukrainians are removed, to be replaced by new Russians, with their land annexed into Greater Russia.


I also doubt Putin wants Ukraine .... at least not this Ukraine.

Putin only wants Russia to expand, and for Ukraine to cease to exist.


I say this with some confidence since no one does, including the EU and NATO.

Ukrainians want Ukraine.


Ukraine is clearly considered immaterial

Hitler said the exact same thing.  So did Stalin.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 09, 2022, 03:18:26 pm
Good to see two more Nazis getting their comeuppance


Another day, another two Russian colonels killed in Ukraine: Putin loses one of his youngest commanders as bitter fighting for Severodonetsk rages on in battle that will decide fate of Donbas

By CHRIS JEWERS and WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
9 June 2022

Vladimir Putin has lost two more colonels in Ukraine - including one of Russia's youngest to reach such a high rank - as a video showed a Russian battalion being hit with artillery fire while attempting to rescue a casualty.

Elsewhere, in another blow to the Kremlin's war efforts, a separate video released this week showed Ukrainian bombs destroying a Russian ammo depo in a huge ball of flames. Images released by Kyiv also appeared to show a destroyed Russian unit.

These are the latest examples of Ukraine's forces putting up a fierce resistance against Putin's invading forces. Moscow expected to capture Kyiv within days of invading on February 24, but its forces have instead been drawn into a protracted conflict that has resulted in tens-of-thousands Russian military losses.

Meanwhile, bitter fighting for the eastern city of Severodonetsk continued to rage on Thursday, after Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said the fate of the whole Donbas region hinges on the 'very fierce' battle.

The deaths of the two high-ranking military figures mean the Kremlin has seen at least 52 colonels killed during the bloody conflict.

Lt-Col Vadim Gerasimov, aged only 36, a battalion from Leningrad region, was posthumously awarded a Hero of Russia - the country's highest honour - on Putin's orders. His widow was also expected to receive his posthumous Order of Courage.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10899649/Putin-loses-two-colonels-Ukraine-One-Russias-youngest-commanders-latest-killed.html

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on June 09, 2022, 03:56:34 pm
The "legacy link" here is that there is over a century of contempt, aggression, persecution, starvation, forced relocation, rape, and murder by Russia against the people living in Ukraine.


La raison d’aller à la guerre.


Hitler invaded Ukraine for the expansion of territory, the vast farming, and for access to the Caucasian oil fields. 
Putin Invaded Ukraine for the expansion of territory, the vast farming, and for access to Ukraine's oil and gas fields.


False.  From Day One, Russia created "the separation", and has interfered every step of the way.  At no point in the last eight years has Ukraine been given the opportunity "to settle", especially considering the presence of Russian troops on Ukrainian soil.


Minsk II (as well as Minsk I) fell apart because of Russian interference.  Minsk I because of Russia arming pro-Russian forces inside of Ukraine that violated the cease fire with the Donetsk Airport attack, and Minsk II because Russia sanctioned phony elections in Donetsk, Luhansk, and Crimea that were in violation of Ukraine law.  So let's at least be honest about the cause of the Minsk agreement collapse before using that as a premise.  Russia, Russia, Russia.


What is the point of negotiating with people that are incapable of keeping their word?  Let's not forget that Russia was also a signatory to the Minsk agreements, but was already in violation of them before the ink was dry.


Ah yes, the EU.  Let's not forget that Ukraine was already on track to join the EU, and it was Russia that sabotaged that by bribing Yanukovych in 2013.  And let's not forget that it was the impeachment of Yanukovych that triggered Russia's 2014 invasion to begin with.  Russia couldn't handle the fact that the Ukrainian people rejected their puppet leader, so they invaded Crimea, Donetsk, and Luhansk.


A lie.  Russia had already been fully involved for over a year.  The end of negotiations were because of Russian interference.


An admission from you that Russia has wanted to annex Ukraine from the beginning.


In word, yes.  But one thing we have learned over the past nine years is that Vladimir Putin is a lying POS.  And in action, it is quite clear that Putin is not recognizing any independence for anyone in Ukraine.  Donetsk is a wasteland, its people slaughtered or driven into exile, its cities leveled.  And the so-called Donetsk 'Republic' [sic] now has a Russian leader hand-picked by Putin.  Seriously.

So no, there is no independence for any territory occupied by Russia.  These occupied territories are undergoing a cultural and ethnic genocide where Ukrainians are removed, to be replaced by new Russians, with their land annexed into Greater Russia.


Putin only wants Russia to expand, and for Ukraine to cease to exist.


Ukrainians want Ukraine.


Hitler said the exact same thing.  So did Stalin.

^^^

Facts...they matter.  888high58888
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 09, 2022, 06:03:09 pm
Ukraine claims victories in Severodonetsk as street fighting continues

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
June 9, 2022

Ukrainian forces inched their way closer on Thursday to the center of Severodonetsk, the latest turn in an increasingly bloody struggle for the last unoccupied city in the northern Donbas state of Luhansk.

Ukrainian national guard commander Petro Kusyk measured the troop movement building by building.

“Yesterday was successful for us — we launched a counteroffensive and in some areas we managed to push [the Russians] back one or two blocks. In others they pushed us back, but just by a building or two,” he said in an interview on Ukrainian TV.

“Yesterday the occupiers suffered serious losses — if every day were like yesterday, this would all be over soon.”

The reported rally comes less than a day after reports that Ukrainian forces had been pushed to an industrial area on the outskirts of the town, and were considering a retreat across the Siverskyi Donets River to the higher ground of Lysychansk.



*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/09/ukraine-claims-victories-in-severodonetsk/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 09, 2022, 06:13:44 pm
Gee, it's so bloody difficult finding out what's going on, with an entire Press corps that can be credibly accused of outright lying.  Both "sides."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 10:05:46 pm
Two British fighters sentenced to death in separatist area, Russian state media says

Aiden Aslin, 28, and Shaun Pinner, 48, were detained in April before appearing in court in the separatist Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).

Andy Hayes  |  9 June 2022  |  19:05, UK

(https://e3.365dm.com/22/06/768x432/skynews-soldiers-shaun-pinner_5799825.jpg)

Two Britons who were captured by Russian forces while fighting in Ukraine have been sentenced to death, state-owned Russian news agency RIA Novosti has said.


Aiden Aslin, 28, and Shaun Pinner, 48, have been accused of being mercenaries, another Russian news agency said.

They were captured in Mariupol in April during the intense fight for control of the port city, before appearing in court in the separatist Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).

It is understood they have admitted "training in order to carry out terrorist activities".

A third man, Moroccan national Saaudun Brahim, has also reportedly been sentenced to death.

The punishments were handed down by the DPR's supreme court, RIA said.

The men were found guilty of "mercenary activities and committing actions aimed at seizing power and overthrowing the constitutional order of the DPR", the Interfax news agency quoted a court official as saying.  .  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-two-british-fighters-sentenced-to-death-in-separatist-area-russian-state-media-says-12630854



The "constitutional order of the DPR"?  The occupational entity calling itself the DNP is headed by a Russian and has no Constitution.  The two Brits were members of the Ukrainian 36th Marine Brigade and were wearing that uniform when captured.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 09, 2022, 10:12:55 pm

We aren't going to be fighting hand-to-hand in our back yards because we're supporting Ukraine with arms against the Russian nazis.  There is no need for such silly hyperbole.

Wow.  Not what I stated at all.   :thud:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 09, 2022, 10:13:23 pm
Gee, it's so bloody difficult finding out what's going on, with an entire Press corps that can be credibly accused of outright lying.  Both "sides."

Exactly.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on June 09, 2022, 10:18:52 pm
Two British fighters sentenced to death in separatist area, Russian state media says

Aiden Aslin, 28, and Shaun Pinner, 48, were detained in April before appearing in court in the separatist Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).

Andy Hayes  |  9 June 2022  |  19:05, UK

(https://e3.365dm.com/22/06/768x432/skynews-soldiers-shaun-pinner_5799825.jpg)

Two Britons who were captured by Russian forces while fighting in Ukraine have been sentenced to death, state-owned Russian news agency RIA Novosti has said.


Aiden Aslin, 28, and Shaun Pinner, 48, have been accused of being mercenaries, another Russian news agency said.

They were captured in Mariupol in April during the intense fight for control of the port city, before appearing in court in the separatist Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).

It is understood they have admitted "training in order to carry out terrorist activities".

A third man, Moroccan national Saaudun Brahim, has also reportedly been sentenced to death.

The punishments were handed down by the DPR's supreme court, RIA said.

The men were found guilty of "mercenary activities and committing actions aimed at seizing power and overthrowing the constitutional order of the DPR", the Interfax news agency quoted a court official as saying.  .  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-two-british-fighters-sentenced-to-death-in-separatist-area-russian-state-media-says-12630854



The "constitutional order of the DPR"?  The occupational entity calling itself the DNP is headed by a Russian and has no Constitution.  The two Brits were members of the Ukrainian 36th Marine Brigade and were wearing that uniform when captured.

Stupid Russians. Who will surrender then? If you going to be killed anyway, take of some of them out with you. It also provides even more incentive to fight to the death. Russia's already bragged about hiring mercenaries. Just a wee bit of hypocrisy?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 09, 2022, 10:26:53 pm
Stupid Russians. Who will surrender then? If you going to be killed anyway, take of some of them out with you. It also provides even more incentive to fight to the death. Russia's already bragged about hiring mercenaries. Just a we bit of hypocrisy?
Exactly. Russia's Wegner Group doesn't count, even though touted as Mercenaries?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 09, 2022, 10:30:03 pm
Gee, it's so bloody difficult finding out what's going on, with an entire Press corps that can be credibly accused of outright lying.  Both "sides."

@Cyber Liberty

As a famous man once noted,"Truth is the first causality of war."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 10:44:39 pm
Russian Elite Unit 'Absolutely Annihilated' After 100 Days of War: Report

ZOE STROZEWSKI  |  6/3/22 AT 1:27 PM EDT


An elite airborne Russian military unit has seen significant losses amid the war in Ukraine, so much so that one military analyst said that it was "absolutely annihilated" at one point in the offensive, according to The Moscow Times.

The Times tracked and reconstructed the movements of the 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade over the past several months in a report released as the Russia-Ukraine War hit 100 days Friday. The unit was among those sent to help gain control of the Ukrainian town of Hostomel, a suburb of Kyiv, in early March, according to an assessment from the Institute for the Study of War (ISW) cited by the Times. In the resulting conflict that saw Ukraine fighting to hold off Russia's advancement, "Russia's elite forces were absolutely annihilated," said Nick Reynolds, a military analyst at the British think tank Royal United Services Institute.

The 100-day mark of the war is notable because when Russia initially invaded Ukraine on February 24 with its focus on the capital of Kyiv and surrounding areas, U.S. officials predicted a swift Russian victory. But Ukraine launched a passionate counteroffensive, eventually spurring Russia to switch its focus to the eastern Donbas region, home to the self-proclaimed People's Republics of Donetsk and Luhansk, which Russia has recognized as independent. The reported heavy losses in the elite Russian airborne regiment reflect a larger deterioration of the country's image as a superior military power throughout these months of war.

Before the unit's purported advance on Hostomel in early March, the 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade was "likely" at the Hostomel military airport fighting against Ukrainian forces, according to the February 24 ISW assessment. Ukraine was ultimately successful in preventing Russia from seizing full control of the airfield.  .  .  .

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-military-losses-31st-guards-air-assault-brigade-ukraine-1712686



The 36th Guards Brigade was indeed the lead assault unit assigned to capture Hostomel airport at the start of the invasion.  An account can be found here:  https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/03/are-there-even-any-left-100-days-of-war-in-ukraine-for-an-elite-russian-unit-a77877

Quote
On a remote plain on the Belarusian-Ukrainian border the morning of Feb. 24, hundreds of paratroopers from Russia’s 31st Guards Air Assault Brigade boarded helicopters they thought were bound for a training ground in western Belarus.

But once the units were airborne, senior officers turned to the men to tell them that they were actually at war with Ukraine.

Instead of Grodno, they entered Ukrainian airspace on their way to Hostomel airport near the capital city of Kyiv.

“The troops were f*****g shocked, people turned gray, especially considering we took fire in the air,” said Nikita Ponomarev, a paratrooper later captured by the Ukrainians.  .  .
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 09, 2022, 11:01:52 pm
More sabotage inside Russia:


Fire engulfs factory in Russia with ties to Russian military: Report

Victor I. Nava  |  June 09, 2022 05:47 AM


A large fire reportedly broke out at a factory with ties to the Russian military on Wednesday, adding to a spate of mysterious blazes in Russia since Moscow's decision to invade Ukraine.

Images on social media purported to show a raging fire at the Zagorsk Optical-Mechanical Plant in Sergiev Posad, Russia, about 47 miles north of the Kremlin. The facility produces "optical and optoelectronic devices for law enforcement agencies, industry and healthcare," according to its website. The company is a known maker of precision optical equipment, such as night vision binoculars, used by the Russian military and is listed as an exhibitor at a military equipment expo organized by the Russian Defense Ministry.

https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1534803306748461056

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fire-engulfs-factory-in-russia-with-ties-to-russian-military-report
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 10, 2022, 01:25:34 pm
Putin undermined his own rationale for invading Ukraine, admitting that the war is to expand Russian territory

Bill Bostock
Fri, June 10, 2022

* Putin said on Thursday that the Ukraine invasion is about expanding Russian territory.

* Until now Putin had insisted that Russia was freeing Ukraine from so-called Nazis and preventing genocide.

* Putin said it was his destiny to "return and reinforce" Russia as the 17th-century ruler Peter the Great did.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said publicly for the first time Thursday that his invasion of Ukraine is about expanding Russian territory, as Western leaders have long maintained.

To date, Putin has justified the invasion by saying, baselessly, that he is preventing Ukraine and what he described as a neo-Nazi government from committing genocide against ethnic Russians. He has also said that NATO's eastward expansion threatens Russia's national security.

Speaking to students Thursday after visiting an exhibition about Peter the Great, Russia's first emperor credited with making the country a major power in the early 18th century, Putin compared himself to the ruler and said they were both destined to expand Russia.

*  *  *

Source:  https://news.yahoo.com/putin-undermined-own-rationale-invading-093128419.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 10, 2022, 01:27:11 pm
Putin undermined his own rationale for invading Ukraine, admitting that the war is to expand Russian territory

Bill Bostock
Fri, June 10, 2022

* Putin said on Thursday that the Ukraine invasion is about expanding Russian territory.

* Until now Putin had insisted that Russia was freeing Ukraine from so-called Nazis and preventing genocide.

* Putin said it was his destiny to "return and reinforce" Russia as the 17th-century ruler Peter the Great did.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said publicly for the first time Thursday that his invasion of Ukraine is about expanding Russian territory, as Western leaders have long maintained.

To date, Putin has justified the invasion by saying, baselessly, that he is preventing Ukraine and what he described as a neo-Nazi government from committing genocide against ethnic Russians. He has also said that NATO's eastward expansion threatens Russia's national security.

Speaking to students Thursday after visiting an exhibition about Peter the Great, Russia's first emperor credited with making the country a major power in the early 18th century, Putin compared himself to the ruler and said they were both destined to expand Russia.

*  *  *

Source:  https://news.yahoo.com/putin-undermined-own-rationale-invading-093128419.html



In other words, it's nothing more than a sordid war of aggression to acquire Lebensraum.  Putin is no more and no less than just another Nazi, bent on territorial aggression for nationalistic aggrandizement; just like Hitler.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on June 10, 2022, 01:33:58 pm


In other words, it's nothing more than a sordid war of aggression to acquire Lebensraum.  Putin is no more and no less than just another Nazi, bent on territorial aggression for nationalistic aggrandizement; just like Hitler.

He's no different from any of the despots that have run Russia since the 1917 Revolution.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 10, 2022, 01:41:41 pm
In other words, it's nothing more than a sordid war of aggression to acquire Lebensraum.  Putin is no more and no less than just another Nazi, bent on territorial aggression for nationalistic aggrandizement; just like Hitler.

Correctamundo.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 10, 2022, 02:30:06 pm


In other words, it's nothing more than a sordid war of aggression to acquire Lebensraum.  Putin is no more and no less than just another Nazi, bent on territorial aggression for nationalistic aggrandizement; just like Hitler.

@Kamaji

Nazis and Communists have ALWAYS been the same critter. Even they knew this,which is why they were allies at the beginning of WW-2.

Same critter,different uniforms.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 10, 2022, 02:34:57 pm
@Kamaji

Nazis and Communists have ALWAYS been the same critter. Even they knew this,which is why they were allies at the beginning of WW-2.

Same critter,different uniforms.

Yup.  The basic difference comes down to fashion sense - the Nazis typically had a better fashion sense (albeit somewhat over the top) than the communists ever did.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 10, 2022, 02:38:56 pm
'Hundreds' of Wagner mercenaries are killed in Ukrainian attack on ammo dump leaving 'only one survivor' - as 'at least 3,000 graves' are discovered near Russian-occupied Mariupol

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
10 June 2022

Hundreds of Russian Wager mercenaries are thought to have been killed after Ukrainian artillery blew up an ammo dump in the Donbas, leaving just one survivor.

Serhiy Haidai, governor of Luhansk province, said today that Ukrainian forces had destroyed the base - located in a sports stadium in the town of Kadiivka - in a strike that took place Thursday.

Unconfirmed reports suggested up to 300 mercenaries had been based in the complex - which was also described as a ammo dump - with Haidai adding that: 'According to our data, only one survived.'

If confirmed, it would mark one of the single-largest losses of military life since the Moskva was sunk - though comes against the backdrop of up to 200 Ukrainian soldiers dying per day in Donbas, according to President Zelensky's adviser.

Meanwhile, a French TV crew that got access to the Russian-occupied city of Mariupol visited one of the cemeteries where civilians are being buried and claimed to have discovered more than 3,000 freshly-dug graves there.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10904191/Hundreds-Wagner-mercenaries-killed-Ukrainian-artillery-attack.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 10, 2022, 03:01:59 pm
Battle for the Donbas: Russia beats back Ukrainian counter-attacks in Severodonetsk with heavy artillery - as Ukraine armed forces chief admits they are facing 'catastrophic' lack of munitions

By DAVID AVERRE FOR MAILONLINE
10 June 2022

Momentum in the battle for the Donbas swung back in favour of Russia last night after Putin's forces managed to retake most of Severodonetsk in the Luhansk region.

Ukrainian forces are still managing to hold their positions on the outskirts of the city, officials said, but are subject to almost round-the-clock bombardments as Russian troops employ a WWI-style approach of seizing ground metre-by-metre behind heavy artillery strikes.

The industrial hub, along with its smaller twin Lysychansk on the opposite bank of the Siversky Donets river, represents the last Ukrainian-controlled part of Luhansk province, which Russia is determined to seize as one of its principal war objectives.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10903293/Russia-beats-Ukrainian-counter-attacks-Severodonetsk-heavy-artillery.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on June 10, 2022, 06:48:03 pm
In other words, it's nothing more than a sordid war of aggression to acquire Lebensraum.  Putin is no more and no less than just another Nazi, bent on territorial aggression for nationalistic aggrandizement; just like Hitler.

Just as some of us here have known from the start of this war.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 10, 2022, 10:48:27 pm
Ukraine pleads for more weapons, cholera spreads in Mariupol

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/intense-fighting-ukraines-bombed-out-sievierodonetsk-2022-06-10/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/intense-fighting-ukraines-bombed-out-sievierodonetsk-2022-06-10/)

Summary

•   Ukraine wants more artillery for battle in the east

•   Mariupol mayor fears thousands may die from cholera there

•   Food shortages caused by war could lead to hunger globally -U.N.

Quote
KYIV, June 10 (Reuters) - Ukraine sought more help from the West on Friday, pleading for faster deliveries of weapons to hold off better-armed Russian forces and for humanitarian support to combat deadly diseases.

In Sievierodonetsk, the small city that has become the focus of Russia's advance in eastern Ukraine and one of the bloodiest flashpoints in a war well into its fourth month, further heavy fighting was reported.

To the south, the mayor of Mariupol - reduced to ruins by a Russian siege – said sanitation systems were broken and corpses were rotting in the streets.

"There is an outbreak of dysentery and cholera ... The war which took over 20,000 residents ... unfortunately, with these infection outbreaks, will claim thousands more Mariupolites," he told national television.

He called on the United Nations and the International Committee of the Red Cross to work on establishing a humanitarian corridor to allow remaining residents to leave the city, which is now under Russian control.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on June 10, 2022, 11:56:13 pm
Putin given 'urgent medical help' after falling ill while talking to military chiefs, Kremlin insider claims, with doctors advising him 'not to make any lengthy public appearances' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10903627/Putin-given-urgent-medical-help-falling-ill-talking-military-chiefs.html)

Vladimir Putin has been advised by doctors not to make any 'lengthy' public appearances after he fell ill amid discussions with his military chiefs, a Kremlin insider has claimed.

The Russian President felt 'a sharp sickness, weakness and dizziness', while getting up from his desk following a recent video conference with advisers and military leaders, Telegram channel General SVR reported yesterday.

'The President needed urgent medical assistance,' claimed the channel which purports to have sources in the Kremlin and has made repeated claims over Putin's alleged medical problems, including cancer and Parkinson's disease.

Excerpted, more at link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10903627/Putin-given-urgent-medical-help-falling-ill-talking-military-chiefs.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10903627/Putin-given-urgent-medical-help-falling-ill-talking-military-chiefs.html)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 11, 2022, 12:42:57 am
Putin given 'urgent medical help' after falling ill while talking to military chiefs, Kremlin insider claims, with doctors advising him 'not to make any lengthy public appearances' (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10903627/Putin-given-urgent-medical-help-falling-ill-talking-military-chiefs.html)

Vladimir Putin has been advised by doctors not to make any 'lengthy' public appearances after he fell ill amid discussions with his military chiefs, a Kremlin insider has claimed.

The Russian President felt 'a sharp sickness, weakness and dizziness', while getting up from his desk following a recent video conference with advisers and military leaders, Telegram channel General SVR reported yesterday.

'The President needed urgent medical assistance,' claimed the channel which purports to have sources in the Kremlin and has made repeated claims over Putin's alleged medical problems, including cancer and Parkinson's disease.

Excerpted, more at link: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10903627/Putin-given-urgent-medical-help-falling-ill-talking-military-chiefs.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10903627/Putin-given-urgent-medical-help-falling-ill-talking-military-chiefs.html)

Well, perhaps Divine intervention is occurring??
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on June 11, 2022, 01:53:26 am
Well, perhaps Divine intervention is occurring??

Or just the traditional way Russia changes its leadership.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 11, 2022, 11:04:06 pm
Vladimir Putin's bodyguards 'collect his excrement on foreign trips and take it back with them to Moscow in dedicated briefcase to stop Western spies collecting intelligence about his health'

By Lizzie May For Mailonline
11 June 2022

Russian president Vladimir Putin has his bodyguards collect his excrement while on foreign trips in a bid to stop people gathering information about his health.

A report has revealed that Putin's Federal Protection Service members are 'responsible for collecting his bodily waste' in special packets which are kept inside a dedicated briefcase until they return to Russia.

Putin's health has been the centre of much speculation especially in recent months with the catastrophic Russian invasion of Ukraine, as instructed by the leader, including suggestions that he is suffering with cancer, dementia and even Parkinson's disease.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10906867/Russian-leaders-bodyguards-collect-excrement-foreign-trips-Moscow.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 11, 2022, 11:05:49 pm
More than 10,000 Ukrainian fighters have been killed since Russian President Vladimir Putin launched his invasion, Kyiv officials have said

By Michael Powell for The Mail on Sunday
11 June 2022

More than 10,000 Ukrainian fighters have been killed since Russia launched its invasion, the country’s government said yesterday.

The grim milestone was announced by presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych, who said daily losses since February had averaged 100 soldiers.

Kyiv claims Russia has lost three times as many troops since Vladimir Putin launched his offensive on February 24, although British intelligence puts the figure at 15,000 – the same number killed during the Soviet Union’s decade of war in Afghanistan.

The Kremlin has provided no casualty figures since March.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10907761/More-10-000-Ukrainian-fighters-killed-Russian-invasion-Kyiv-officials-said.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 12, 2022, 01:44:00 pm
Fierce fight for the last Ukrainian city in Donbas region grinds on

By Mary Kay Linge
June 11, 2022

Russian forces now control two-thirds of the key Ukrainian city of Severodonetsk, a local official confirmed Saturday, as fighting still raged in its eastern industrial zone.

“The situation remains difficult,” said Serhiy Haidai, the governor of the Luhansk region. “Fighting continues, but unfortunately, most of the city is under Russian control. Some positional battles are taking place in the streets.”

The takeover of Luhansk, which makes up the Donbas along with the neighboring Donetsk region, has become Russia’s primary objective since its forces were repulsed from the capital of Kyiv.

The ongoing battle for Severodonetsk, the last unoccupied city in Luhansk, has become increasingly bloody in recent days.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/11/fierce-fight-for-the-last-ukrainian-city-in-donbas-grinds-on/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 12, 2022, 04:55:31 pm
Elon Musk’s Starlink ‘destroyed Putin’s information campaign’ in Ukraine, US general says

By Thomas Barrabi
June 10, 2022

Elon Musk’s deployment of thousands of “Starlink” satellite internet terminals to Ukraine has been a major boon for soldiers resisting the brutal Russian invasion – with one top US general stating that the service has helped Ukrainians stay connected to the West.

Ukrainian soldiers have reportedly used the SpaceX-operated internet system to coordinate military action as well as to stay in touch with their families – despite Russia’s efforts to sever communications.

Starlink has also helped Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to communicate directly with his countrymen despite heavy Russian bombardments targeting infrastructure.

“The strategic impact is, it totally destroyed [Vladimir] Putin’s information campaign,” Brig. Gen. Steve Butow, director of the space portfolio at the Defense Innovation Unit, told Politico. “He never, to this day, has been able to silence Zelenskyy.”

Musk has touted Starlink, which has more than 400,000 global subscribers, as a source of high-speed, low-cost broadband internet in areas that previously lacked reliable service.

But the billionaire began shipping Starlink terminals to Ukraine in late February and the request of Ukrainian government officials who feared Russia would cut off traditional internet access.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/10/elon-musks-starlink-destroyed-putins-information-campaign-in-ukraine-us-general-says/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 12, 2022, 05:29:38 pm
In Kherson, misery under Russian occupation, hope over Ukrainian gains

Isabelle Khurshudyan and David L. Stern  |  June 12, 2022 at 2:00 a.m. EDT


KYIV, Ukraine — More than three months of occupation by Russian soldiers has left much of Ukraine’s southern Kherson region isolated, without access to basic medicines and cut off from Ukrainian cellphone and internet service.

The Russian tricolor flag is displayed at most of the main government buildings. There are whispers of a coming referendum that would formally make Kherson part of Russia, at least in the Kremlin’s eyes. The armed occupying forces patrol the streets, while the blasts of artillery shells crashing in the distance can be heard daily — signs of the ongoing fight between the Russian and Ukrainian militaries for control of the area.

Interviews by The Washington Post with people who live in Kherson, evacuated recently or are in regular contact with residents there painted a grim picture of prolonged life under occupation, in an area that marked Russia’s first major land grab of this war. More than 100 days have passed since Russian tanks rolled into the region from the neighboring Crimean Peninsula, which Moscow invaded and illegally annexed in 2014.

Stores and pharmacies have been closed during that time, and people don’t have access to money while their local Ukrainian banks and ATMs are not operating. There are markets with goods sold out of the trunks of cars — a scene one woman likened to the days after the fall of the Soviet Union. Supplies of medicines such as insulin and saline solution, which is used in everything from cleaning wounds to storing contact lenses, are critically low, she and others said.

“Very many people are in deep depression or suffering from nervous breakdowns,” said the woman, who asked to be identified as “Tatyana”  .  .  .

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/ZKAZPDBSQNHVBOC7K73WYFKJHU.jpg&w=767)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/12/ukraine-kherson-counteroffensive-russian-occupation/



Putin, the "liberator" [sic].  Not sure what Kherson Oblast has to do with Donbas.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 12, 2022, 07:28:06 pm
Heavy exchange of fire in eastern Ukrainian city of Lysychansk

There has been a heavy exchange of fire in Ukraine's eastern city of Lysychansk, in the Luhansk region.

Russian forces want to take control of Luhansk by trying to capture Lysychansk and nearby Severodonetsk.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-61774948
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 12, 2022, 08:29:02 pm
In Kherson, misery under Russian occupation, hope over Ukrainian gains

Isabelle Khurshudyan and David L. Stern  |  June 12, 2022 at 2:00 a.m. EDT


KYIV, Ukraine — More than three months of occupation by Russian soldiers has left much of Ukraine’s southern Kherson region isolated, without access to basic medicines and cut off from Ukrainian cellphone and internet service.

The Russian tricolor flag is displayed at most of the main government buildings. There are whispers of a coming referendum that would formally make Kherson part of Russia, at least in the Kremlin’s eyes. The armed occupying forces patrol the streets, while the blasts of artillery shells crashing in the distance can be heard daily — signs of the ongoing fight between the Russian and Ukrainian militaries for control of the area.

Interviews by The Washington Post with people who live in Kherson, evacuated recently or are in regular contact with residents there painted a grim picture of prolonged life under occupation, in an area that marked Russia’s first major land grab of this war. More than 100 days have passed since Russian tanks rolled into the region from the neighboring Crimean Peninsula, which Moscow invaded and illegally annexed in 2014.

Stores and pharmacies have been closed during that time, and people don’t have access to money while their local Ukrainian banks and ATMs are not operating. There are markets with goods sold out of the trunks of cars — a scene one woman likened to the days after the fall of the Soviet Union. Supplies of medicines such as insulin and saline solution, which is used in everything from cleaning wounds to storing contact lenses, are critically low, she and others said.

“Very many people are in deep depression or suffering from nervous breakdowns,” said the woman, who asked to be identified as “Tatyana”  .  .  .

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/ZKAZPDBSQNHVBOC7K73WYFKJHU.jpg&w=767)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/12/ukraine-kherson-counteroffensive-russian-occupation/



Putin, the "liberator" [sic].  Not sure what Kherson Oblast has to do with Donbas.
Kherson Oblast is pat of the general strategy to landlock Ukraine by seizing the Black Sea ports. All Ukrainian shipping would have to go through Russia, which would permit Russia to effectively control the prices of the commodities shipped. In short, Russia would be able to use that impoverishment of Ukraine as economic leverage to crush any opposition to seizure of the entire country by promising better treatment as part of the new Greater Russia (not that they'd get it).
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 12, 2022, 11:21:19 pm
Ukraine is running out of ammunition as prospects dim on the battlefield

Hopes that Ukraine will be able to reverse Russian gains are fading in the face of superior firepower

Siobhán O'Grady, Liz Sly and Ievgeniia Sivorka  |  June 10, 2022 at 6:37 p.m. EDT

SLOVYANSK, Ukraine — The euphoria that accompanied Ukraine’s unforeseen early victories against bumbling Russian troops is fading as Moscow adapts its tactics, recovers its stride and asserts its overwhelming firepower against heavily outgunned Ukrainian forces.

Newly promised Western weapons systems are arriving, but too slowly and in insufficient quantities to prevent incremental but inexorable Russian gains in the eastern Donbas region of Ukraine, which is now the focus of the fight.

The Ukrainians are still fighting back, but they are running out of ammunition and suffering casualties at a far higher rate than in the initial stages of the war. Around 200 Ukrainian soldiers are now being killed every day, up from 100 late last month, an aide to President Volodymyr Zelensky told the BBC on Friday — meaning that as many as 1,000 Ukrainians are being taken out of the fight every day, including those who are injured.

The Russians are still making mistakes and are also losing men and equipment, albeit at a lesser rate than in the first months of the conflict. In one sign that they are suffering equipment shortages, they have been seen on videos posted on social media hauling hundreds of mothballed, Soviet-era T-62 tanks out of storage to be sent to Ukraine.

But the overall trajectory of the war has unmistakably shifted away from one of unexpectedly dismal Russian failures and tilted in favor of Russia as the demonstrably stronger force.

Ukrainian and U.S. hopes that the new supplies of Western weaponry would enable Ukraine to regain the initiative and eventually retake the estimated 20 percent of Ukrainian territory captured by Russia since its Feb. 24 invasion are starting to look premature, said Oleksandr V. Danylyuk, an adviser to the Ukrainian government on defense and intelligence issues.

“The strategies and tactics of the Russians are completely different right now. They are being much more successful,” he said. “They have more resources than us and they are not in a rush.”

“There’s much less space for optimism right now,” he added.  .  .  .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/10/ukraine-ammunition-donbas-russia/




$40 billion in so-called 'aid for Ukraine'.  Yet no one thought to include more ammunition.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 13, 2022, 11:34:51 am
Russia fires five-and-a-half ton Cold War-era missiles designed to destroy aircraft carriers at Ukrainian forces in the Donbas after running out of precision rockets, MoD says

By ADAM SOLOMONS FOR MAILONLINE
12 June 2022

Russia is relying on Cold War-era missiles with 'severe' risks to civilians as Putin's forces have run out of modern weapons, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) claimed.

The government's daily intelligence update on Saturday also offered new details of 'intense street fighting' in eastern Ukraine as Russian soldiers were pushed back.

Antiquated Kh-22 missiles from the 1960s are extra dangerous as they 'are highly inaccurate and therefore can cause severe collateral damage and causalities', the ministry wrote.

Russia is likely using the heavy anti-ship missiles because it is running low on more precise modern missiles, it stated.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908917/Russia-fires-Cold-War-era-missiles-Ukraine-running-precision-rockets-MoD-says.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 13, 2022, 12:49:09 pm
Twenty woman aged between 18 and 27 were stripped and ordered to perform squats in front of Russian police cameras after being dragged away from anti-war protests, lawyer claims

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
13 June 2022

Russian police detained 20 women under suspicion of protesting against Vladimir Putin's war in Ukraine and forced them to strip naked and squat five times 'in front of police cameras,' the group has claimed.

The 'suspects' aged 18 to 27 were rounded up at or near a rally in the city of Nizhny Novgorod and subjected to 'humiliating and degrading' treatment, says their lawyer.

Women police officers ordered them to strip, but in some cases cell doors were open and male officers passed by.

In all cases, cell cameras fitted with video recorders spied on the alleged abuse.

Men detained at the same time were not subjected to the strip-and-squat orders.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10911245/Twenty-woman-aged-18-27-stripped-ordered-perform-squats-Russian-police-cameras.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 13, 2022, 01:38:55 pm
Russia fires five-and-a-half ton Cold War-era missiles designed to destroy aircraft carriers at Ukrainian forces in the Donbas after running out of precision rockets, MoD says

It's a pity they used up their precision munitions bombing civilians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2022, 03:07:31 pm
It's a pity they used up their precision munitions bombing civilians.

Either they didn't have a very large stockpile to begin with or they expended wayyyyyy more of their precision munitions than they expected to.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 13, 2022, 03:12:08 pm
Either they didn't have a very large stockpile to begin with or they expended wayyyyyy more of their precision munitions than they expected to.

Could be both.  The political leadership, such as it is, was probably mislead about the current materiel inventory.  They certainly were lied to about the condition of the rolling stock, which was evident by how many vehicles with tires failed because they were subject to dry rot and a lack of PM.  They never even took them out for the occasional drive.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2022, 03:41:01 pm
Could be both.  The political leadership, such as it is, was probably mislead about the current materiel inventory.  They certainly were lied to about the condition of the rolling stock, which was evident by how many vehicles with tires failed because they were subject to dry rot and a lack of PM.  They never even took them out for the occasional drive.

Old habits die hard. Russian Generals overselling their readiness so as not to get in trouble with the Central Committee.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 13, 2022, 04:22:57 pm
Old habits die hard. Russian Generals overselling their readiness so as not to get in trouble with the Central Committee.

I think we have that problem with our Pentagon...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on June 13, 2022, 04:29:16 pm
I think we have that problem with our Pentagon...

Yeah we've been wayyyyy too political starting around 1994.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 13, 2022, 04:42:33 pm
Old habits die hard. Russian Generals overselling their readiness so as not to get in trouble with the Central Committee.

Also, Russian Generals skimming defense funds off the books and selling equipment on the black market.  Like all that night vision equipment the soldiers were supposed to have.  The money to purchase that equipment went to dummy companies that the generals owned and that never delivered the equipment.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on June 13, 2022, 05:34:34 pm

Ukraine is running out of ammo and taking heavy casualties
Allahpundit Jun 13, 2022 1:31 PM ET

The war increasingly looks like a straightforward contest to see which side will collapse first. The horrendous casualties taken by the Russian in close-quarters fighting around Kiev combined with promises of massive western military aid for Ukraine seemed unsustainable for Putin’s army, making them a likely loser.

But now that the war has shifted to the east and become a long-range slugfest in open terrain, the forecast has shifted. Unable to match the range of Putin’s artillery, it’s the Ukrainians who are taking horrendous casualties while Russian soldiers remain out of reach. One advisor to Zelensky told reporters this week that around 150 Ukrainian troops are dying each day and another 800 are being wounded. That’s a thousand men off the battlefield every 24 hours among a total force of maybe 500,000. And not just any men: Their troops in the east have combat experience. Replacing those soldiers with new conscripts isn’t a one-to-one substitution.

As for those promises of western weapons:

https://twitter.com/yarotrof/status/1536272971177902082

more
https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2022/06/13/ukraine-is-running-out-of-ammo-and-taking-heavy-casualties-n475852
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on June 13, 2022, 05:41:40 pm
Seems like Bad Vlad's tactic of outlasting the resolve of the west is starting to payoff. 

I hope Zellensky has success with what will appear to be dwindling resources.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 13, 2022, 05:44:54 pm
I think we have that problem with our Pentagon...
The LCS class might have stopped with the prototypes otherwise.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 14, 2022, 01:58:36 am
Evidence shows widespread use of cluster munitions in Kharkiv

Joel Gunter - Kharkiv  |  1 day ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/151F5/production/_125371568_dsc01533-2.jpg)
Distinctive marks from a cluster munition in the roof of a car next to a playground in Kharkiv (Joel Gunter/BBC)

Russia has killed hundreds of civilians in the north-eastern Ukrainian city of Kharkiv using indiscriminate shelling and widely-banned cluster munitions, according to new research by Amnesty International.

Amnesty said it had found evidence of Russian forces repeatedly using 9N210/9N235 cluster bombs, as well as "scatterable" munitions - rockets that eject smaller mines that explode later at timed intervals.

The BBC visited five separate impact sites in residential neighbourhoods in Kharkiv and saw evidence of a distinctive, symmetrical spalling effect associated with cluster munitions. We showed images from the sites to three weapons experts, who all said the impacts were consistent with the controversial weapons.

"Those impacts are from cluster munitions, it's a classic signature," said Mark Hizney, a senior researcher in the arms division of Human Rights Watch, a campaign group. "And in one image you can see a remnant of a stabiliser fin from one of the submunitions," he said.

CCTV footage passed to the BBC by a resident at one of the sites showed successive clustered detonations - "a very strong indicator of submunitions from a cluster weapon  .  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61778433
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 14, 2022, 11:47:09 am
Ukraine strikes back: Kyiv blasts military base 40 miles inside Russian border in early morning rocket attack

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
14 June 2022

Ukraine is thought to have struck a military base 40 miles inside Russia in an early-morning missile attack.

Footage showed what appeared to be a missile trail in the sky over the town of Klintsy early Tuesday, accompanied by a plume of smoke rising from a nearby base.

Troops and helicopters then arrived to inspect what appeared to be a bomb crater, as local Telegram channels reported a fire spreading to a nearby apartment block.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10914343/Ukrainian-missile-hits-military-base-40-miles-inside-Russia.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 14, 2022, 05:11:30 pm
Ukraine strikes back: Kyiv blasts military base 40 miles inside Russian border in early morning rocket attack

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
14 June 2022

Ukraine is thought to have struck a military base 40 miles inside Russia in an early-morning missile attack.

Footage showed what appeared to be a missile trail in the sky over the town of Klintsy early Tuesday, accompanied by a plume of smoke rising from a nearby base.

Troops and helicopters then arrived to inspect what appeared to be a bomb crater, as local Telegram channels reported a fire spreading to a nearby apartment block.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10914343/Ukrainian-missile-hits-military-base-40-miles-inside-Russia.html

Good!

The only chance Ukraine has is to destroy Russia's supply lines.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 15, 2022, 11:48:52 am
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald

Three months into this war, Ukraine is ravaged. Russia controls major parts of E. Ukraine. Russia's oil profits are higher than ever. Ruble is strong. Much of the world rejected US/NATO policy. Billions in US funds: gone, who knows where. Untraced weapons are flooding the region.

The problem from the start was the obligatory moralism narrative didn't help decipher what policies would and wouldn't work. And that was as intended: there was so much to debate and question about US policy, but it was barred. Anyone who tried was maligned as a Russian stooge.


7:27 PM · Jun 14, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 15, 2022, 12:54:43 pm
Glenn Greenwald
@ggreenwald

Three months into this war, Ukraine is ravaged. Russia controls major parts of E. Ukraine. Russia's oil profits are higher than ever. Ruble is strong. Much of the world rejected US/NATO policy. Billions in US funds: gone, who knows where. Untraced weapons are flooding the region.

The problem from the start was the obligatory moralism narrative didn't help decipher what policies would and wouldn't work. And that was as intended: there was so much to debate and question about US policy, but it was barred. Anyone who tried was maligned as a Russian stooge.


7:27 PM · Jun 14, 2022·Twitter Web App
If Biden hadn't been on a crusade to destroy the American petroleum industry, Russia would not be making money on oil and our domestic gasoline and diesel prices (and all that transports) would not be so high. As for the billions going God knows where, ask 'the big guy', no doubt there are lots of fingers in that pie, and likely he knows just where they are.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on June 15, 2022, 01:18:06 pm
If Biden hadn't been on a crusade to destroy the American petroleum industry, Russia would not be making money on oil and our domestic gasoline and diesel prices (and all that transports) would not be so high. As for the billions going God knows where, ask 'the big guy', no doubt there are lots of fingers in that pie, and likely he knows just where they are.

Dang right.  And just think how much the Ruskies have made of confiscated Uke grain, at present grain prices.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 15, 2022, 01:21:50 pm
Dang right.  And just think how much the Ruskies have made of confiscated Uke grain, at present grain prices.
Yep, they are stealing it just like the Holodomor, as if that doesn't resonate among Ukrainians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on June 15, 2022, 05:13:56 pm
First two US fighters are captured by Russian soldiers in battle for Kharkiv amid fears they will be handed death sentences like two British soldiers caught by Putin's army

    Robert Drueke, 39, and Andy Huynh, 27, were captured while fighting for the Ukrainian army last week
    The pair were part of a ten-men squad which encountered Russian forces in Kharkiv
    They disabled a Russian tank but then were lost in the fog of return fire then disappeared, comrades say
    Drueke served in Iraq in the US Army but Huynh, a former Marine, has never been in active combat before
    He gave an interview before he ventured to the region in which he said he was prepared to die 
    Now, there are fears they may be given the same death sentences as Brits Shaun Pinner and Aiden Aslin
    The two British men were captured in April and were last week sentenced to death by firing squad
    The Biden administration has not yet commented on the capture of the two American servicemen captured

By Jennifer Smith, Chief Reporter For Dailymail.Com

Published: 11:37 EDT, 15 June 2022 | Updated: 12:59 EDT, 15 June 2022

Two American fighters have been taken as prisoners of war in Ukraine, the first since the conflict began.

Robert Drueke and Andy Huynh were taken prisoner by Russian forces last week on the outskirts of Kharkiv, according to sources cited by The Daily Telegraph on Tuesday.

Drueke, 39, and Huynh, 27, are both from Alabama. One of their comrades described losing sight of the pair in a battle last week.

more
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10920217/Two-American-volunteers-captured-Russian-soldiers-Ukraine.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 15, 2022, 05:59:41 pm
Dang right.  And just think how much the Ruskies have made of confiscated Uke grain, at present grain prices.

This year, the ruble is the strongest currency in the World.  Gee, how do you think that happened??  Let's see, Putin destroys Ukraine, wipes out most of their ability to export grain, but even with all the supposed sanctions against Russia, the ruble is strong. We're spending billions upon billion on the Ukraine as they continue to crumble.  Meanwhile our economy is being destroyed.

The big picture IMO is both Putin and Joe & Company are profiting.  Joe is able to continue to crush the U.S. economy while pushing for a fossil fuel free country which will completely wipe out our economy, creating the great "reset" all as planned. How much longer do you think that it's going to take before we see a recession or a depression, again shrinking the labor force.  We'll continue to see bare shelves and people aren't going to be able to afford to feed their families.

I watched a news broadcast interviewing a gentleman on SS who is now eating every other day in order to afford his meds!  Dead wrong that this is happening!!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ruble-currency-2022/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDmDhTDCSIk
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 15, 2022, 08:24:46 pm
This year, the ruble is the strongest currency in the World.  Gee, how do you think that happened??  Let's see, Putin destroys Ukraine, wipes out most of their ability to export grain, but even with all the supposed sanctions against Russia, the ruble is strong. We're spending billions upon billion on the Ukraine as they continue to crumble.  Meanwhile our economy is being destroyed.

The big picture IMO is both Putin and Joe & Company are profiting.  Joe is able to continue to crush the U.S. economy while pushing for a fossil fuel free country which will completely wipe out our economy, creating the great "reset" all as planned. How much longer do you think that it's going to take before we see a recession or a depression, again shrinking the labor force.  We'll continue to see bare shelves and people aren't going to be able to afford to feed their families.

I watched a news broadcast interviewing a gentleman on SS who is now eating every other day in order to afford his meds!  Dead wrong that this is happening!!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ruble-currency-2022/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDmDhTDCSIk

Capital controls will do that, at least for a while.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 15, 2022, 10:38:51 pm
Ukraine's newest heroes: How brave Russian defectors have joined Kyiv's forces on the frontlines against Putin's regime to liberate their beloved country from his rule

By IAN BIRRELL FOR THE DAILY MAIL
15 June 2022

Like all his Ukrainian army comrades, Volodymyr Grotskov is fuelled by deeply-held patriotism as he risks his life on the bloodstained frontline of the brutal war against Russia.

The 48-year-old electrical engineer says he loves his country and sees the Kremlin as a destructive 'cancer' threatening the world's peace and security. 'It might sound pretentious but I'm fighting for freedom and democracy,' he insists.

Yet there is one big difference between Grotskov and all the other soldiers in his brigade who are sitting beside us, eating borscht and cleaning their guns while the thunder of artillery bombardment crashes around the battered Donbas frontline.

For this member of the Ukrainian military is Russian – and he is fighting to liberate his country from dictatorship as well as the preservation of his adopted nation.

'So what would happen if you were caught?' I asked this quietly-spoken soldier as we talked in his unit's temporary farmhouse base. 'Death would happen,' he replied with a laugh, admitting that many compatriots would see him as a traitor.

Yet he is among scores of Russians so infuriated by Vladimir Putin's barbarity and corruption that they have defected to Kyiv's side – including captured prisoners of war and even a senior official in one of Moscow's central financial institutions.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10921045/Ukraines-newest-heroes-brave-Russian-defectors-joined-Kyivs-forces.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 16, 2022, 01:05:35 am
I hope " Volodymyr Grotskov" isn't his actual name,or his  family will suffer.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 16, 2022, 01:12:44 am
We're spending billions upon billion on the Ukraine as they continue to crumble.

We are spending billions upon billions.  But not on Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 16, 2022, 03:16:38 am
I hope " Volodymyr Grotskov" isn't his actual name,or his  family will suffer.
Russian Chieu hois?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 16, 2022, 12:31:43 pm
Russian missile hits train carrying food for chef José Andrés’ Ukraine relief

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
June 15, 2022

A train carrying food on its way to supply celebrity chef José Andrés’ relief mission in Ukraine was struck by a missile Wednesday.

Andrés tweeted that a train carrying food bound for one of his community kitchens had been destroyed by a Russian missile somewhere in eastern Ukraine.

One train car was destroyed, he said, but the food in the rest of the train was salvageable. No one was hurt in the attack, Andrés said.

The food was part of World Central Kitchen, Andrés’ nonprofit dedicated to feeding victims of natural disasters. This is the organization’s first time operating in a war zone.

Thirty-four pallets of food were destroyed in the strike, WCK’s CEO Nate Mook said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/15/russian-missile-hits-chef-jose-andres-ukraine-relief-food-train/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 16, 2022, 12:33:34 pm
Two former US servicemen captured in Ukraine after ‘absolutely crazy’ mission: report

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
June 15, 2022

Two former US servicemen were captured last week in the fighting outside of Kharkiv, according to a report.

Alexander Drueke, 39, and Andy Huynh, 27 — both from Alabama — were taken prisoner during a fierce fight with Russian armor during the ongoing Ukrainian counterattacks in the nation’s northeast, the British newspaper the Telegraph reported.

The Americans were captured after their 10-man squad ran into a much larger Russian force in a village outside Kharkiv, the newspaper said, citing an unnamed source who fought with the pair in a regular Ukrainian military unit.

“We were out on a mission and the whole thing went absolutely crazy, with bad intel,” the source said. “We were told the town was clear when it turned out the Russians were already assaulting it.

“They came down the road with two T72 tanks and multiple BMP3s (armored personnel carriers) and about 100 infantry,” the source added.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/15/two-former-us-servicemen-reportedly-captured-in-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 16, 2022, 01:17:24 pm
French, German, Italian leaders arrive in Kyiv

By Associated Press
June 16, 2022

The leaders of France, Germany, Italy and Romania arrived in Kyiv on Thursday in a show of collective European support for Ukraine as it tries to resist Russia’s invasion, marking the highest-profile visit to Ukraine’s capital since Russia invaded its neighbor.

The French president’s office said that President Emmanuel Macron, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz and Italian Premier Mario Draghi had traveled to Kyiv together, and that Romanian President Klaus Iohannis will join them there.

After getting off the train in Kyiv, Macron said they would visit sites where attacks occurred.

“It is an important moment,” he said. “It is a message of European unity toward Ukrainians.”

Macron said they will speak with Ukrainian officials about “both the present and the future.”

German news agency dpa quoted Scholz as saying that the leaders are seeking to show solidarity but also their commitment to keeping up their financial and humanitarian help for Ukraine, and their supply of weapons.

He added that this support would continue “for as long as is necessary for Ukraine’s fight for independence,” dpa reported.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/16/french-german-italian-leaders-arrive-in-kyiv/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on June 17, 2022, 12:37:47 am
Defense Secretary Announces $1 Billion More in Ukraine Military Aid, Says U.S. to Stay Focused ‘for as Long as It Takes’

Kristina Wong 16 Jun 2022

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announced another $1 billion in military aid for Ukraine on Wednesday, following the third meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, a group of about 50 nations supporting Ukraine in its war against Russia.

“I’m especially pleased to be able to announce today that the United States will provide an additional $1 billion security assistance package for Ukraine,” Austin said at a press conference at the NATO headquarters in Brussels, where the members of the group met.

A portion of the $1 billion — $350 million — will come from the Pentagon’s existing stocks, and the remaining $650 million will come from the $40 billion that Congress passed for Ukraine security and humanitarian assistance last month.

Austin said the latest package of military aid includes guided multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) munitions, 18 more M777 howitzers and the tactical vehicles to tow them, and 36,000 rounds of 155mm ammunition. It also includes two additional Harpoon coastal defense systems and thousands of secure radios, night vision devices, thermal sights, and other optics.

Earlier this month, Biden authorized four High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) with guided MLRS munitions, Javelin anti-tank missiles, helicopters, counter-battery radars, and ammunition.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/06/16/defense-secretary-announces-1-billion-more-in-ukraine-military-aid-says-u-s-to-stay-focused-for-as-long-as-it-takes/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 17, 2022, 01:32:34 am
Biden Dissatisfied With Blinken And Austin's Statements That Ukraine Should Defeat Russia

https://ukranews.com/en/news/863469-biden-dissatisfied-with-blinken-and-austin-s-statements-that-ukraine-should-defeat-russia-media (https://ukranews.com/en/news/863469-biden-dissatisfied-with-blinken-and-austin-s-statements-that-ukraine-should-defeat-russia-media)

Quote
President of the United States Joe Biden does not approve of the statements of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Secretary of State Antony Blinken that the U.S. leadership wants Ukraine to win the war with Russia.

It is reported by NBC News, citing its own sources.

According to a senior U.S. official, Biden considered that Austin and Blinken went too far in their statements regarding the armed confrontation between Russia and Ukraine.

The U.S. President is concerned that these statements could create unrealistic expectations and increase the risk of U.S. involvement in a direct military conflict with Russia.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 17, 2022, 01:44:27 am
Defense Secretary Announces $1 Billion More in Ukraine Military Aid, Says U.S. to Stay Focused ‘for as Long as It Takes’

Kristina Wong 16 Jun 2022

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin announced another $1 billion in military aid for Ukraine on Wednesday, following the third meeting of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, a group of about 50 nations supporting Ukraine in its war against Russia.

“I’m especially pleased to be able to announce today that the United States will provide an additional $1 billion security assistance package for Ukraine,” Austin said at a press conference at the NATO headquarters in Brussels, where the members of the group met.

A portion of the $1 billion — $350 million — will come from the Pentagon’s existing stocks, and the remaining $650 million will come from the $40 billion that Congress passed for Ukraine security and humanitarian assistance last month.

Austin said the latest package of military aid includes guided multiple launch rocket systems (MLRS) munitions, 18 more M777 howitzers and the tactical vehicles to tow them, and 36,000 rounds of 155mm ammunition. It also includes two additional Harpoon coastal defense systems and thousands of secure radios, night vision devices, thermal sights, and other optics.

Earlier this month, Biden authorized four High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) with guided MLRS munitions, Javelin anti-tank missiles, helicopters, counter-battery radars, and ammunition.

more
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/06/16/defense-secretary-announces-1-billion-more-in-ukraine-military-aid-says-u-s-to-stay-focused-for-as-long-as-it-takes/

If they actually follow through  and send this aid ASAP it can turn the war in Ukraine's favor.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 17, 2022, 01:46:56 am
Biden Dissatisfied With Blinken And Austin's Statements That Ukraine Should Defeat Russia

https://ukranews.com/en/news/863469-biden-dissatisfied-with-blinken-and-austin-s-statements-that-ukraine-should-defeat-russia-media (https://ukranews.com/en/news/863469-biden-dissatisfied-with-blinken-and-austin-s-statements-that-ukraine-should-defeat-russia-media)

The only way the USA gets directly involved is if Biden orders it. I don't see anyone supporting that.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 17, 2022, 01:47:38 am
Quote
The U.S. President is concerned that these statements could create unrealistic expectations

Joe Biden is a complete fool, demonstrating to the world why he has never made a correct foreign policy decision in over half a century.  From the very beginning, he has already made up his mind that Russia will win, and every decision he has made since then has handicapped Ukraine's ability to defeat the invaders.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 17, 2022, 01:50:00 am
If they actually follow through  and send this aid ASAP it can turn the war in Ukraine's favor.

If they had sent this in February like they claimed, there would be a lot less Russian troops alive, and a lot more Ukrainian civilians alive.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 17, 2022, 02:42:31 am


Joe Biden is a complete fool, demonstrating to the world why he has never made a correct foreign policy decision in over half a century.  From the very beginning, he has already made up his mind that Russia will win, and every decision he has made since then has handicapped Ukraine's ability to defeat the invaders.

It sure explains a lot!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 17, 2022, 02:45:23 am
If they had sent this in February like they claimed, there would be a lot less Russian troops alive, and a lot more Ukrainian civilians alive.

 :amen:

The Ukrainians have proven themselves more than capable. Give them the tools and they will push the Orcs back to their borders.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 17, 2022, 02:49:30 am
Ukrainian dreams of retaking Kherson hinge on Western weapons

Conor Humphries  |  June 15, 2022  |  2:32 PM EDT


MYKOLAIV, Ukraine, June 15 (Reuters) - For the Ukrainian soldiers fighting to retake ground in the wheat fields and empty villages northwest of the city of Kherson, the liberation of one of Ukraine's most strategically important Black Sea cities feels tantalisingly close.

"We could be in Kherson in 15 minutes!" said Sergiy, a Ukrainian army officer in trenches along the deserted motorway between the city of Mykolaiv and Kherson. Part of the dugout was plastered with children's pictures promising "Glory to Ukraine!"

"The south is ready, we're just waiting for the hardware… just waiting for the command," he said, declining to give his surname as he was not authorised to speak to reporters.

But military analysts said that a serious attempt to take the final 30-or-so kilometres of Black Sea steppe as part of a major counteroffensive will be difficult without a huge injection of arms and personnel.

"There is no chance of this happening very soon," Kyiv-based analyst Oleg Zhdanov said. "Taking a city like Kherson, a major regional city, is only possible by rearming."

The Western weapons currently arriving, he said, are "a drop in the ocean."  .  .  .

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-dreams-retaking-kherson-hinge-western-weapons-2022-06-15/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 17, 2022, 02:59:19 am
If they actually follow through  and send this aid ASAP it can turn the war in Ukraine's favor.

@bilo

Whoever populates the cabal that gives Slow Joe his marching orders will make sure the budget is approved,and then take bids from both sides to determine if they are delivered in time to make a difference.

If Ukraine can come up with enough "under the table cash",they will get them.

If Russia comes up with more under the table cash,Ukraine doesn't get them because there will be one delay after another until Ukraine is in Neo-Soviet hands.

The movers and shakers in the House and the Senate are pimping us out to the highest bidders.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 17, 2022, 03:04:42 am
@bilo

Whoever populates the cabal that gives Slow Joe his marching orders will make sure the budget is approved,and then take bids from both sides to determine if they are delivered in time to make a difference.

If Ukraine can come up with enough "under the table cash",they will get them.

If Russia comes up with more under the table cash,Ukraine doesn't get them because there will be one delay after another until Ukraine is in Neo-Soviet hands.

The movers and shakers in the House and the Senate are pimping us out to the highest bidders.

I'm not quite as cynical as you. I still believe there are some people left who want the best for the USA. It's as clear as anything that if Russia can be defeated in Ukraine it will divert a bigger war.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 17, 2022, 11:50:25 am
Ukrainian farmers poison Russian troops with cherries: mayor

By Snejana Farberov
June 16, 2022

Ukrainians in territories occupied by Russian forces are said to be using all means at their disposal to sabotage the invaders, including by poisoning cherries, a local official said Thursday.

Ivan Fedorov, the mayor of Melitopol in Zaporizhzhia Oblast, revealed during a television broadcast that subversive Ukrainian farmers were able to take occupiers out of commission with the help of contaminated stone fruit.

Fedorov said Russian soldiers had stolen a crop of sweet cherries from local farmers, reportedly to export it to Crimea for profit, unaware that the fruits had been sprayed with chemicals, Ukrainian News reported.

“Our farmers have prepared another gift for the [Russian fascists] – freshly treated sweet cherries, which caused a mass disease among the [Russians] who stole it from the farmers.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/16/ukrainian-farmers-poison-russian-troops-with-cherries/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 17, 2022, 02:16:54 pm
Quote
Biden Dissatisfied With Blinken And Austin's Statements That Ukraine Should Defeat Russia
Biden told Austin, Blinken to tone down remarks supporting Ukraine: report
by Ellen Mitchell - 06/16/22 9:04 AM ET

President Biden told Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Secretary of State Antony Blinken in April to tone down their rhetoric in supporting Ukraine in its war against Russia, NBC News reported Thursday.

The pushback reportedly came after the Pentagon chief said the Biden administration wanted Ukraine to win the war against the Kremlin and that the U.S. wanted a weakened Russia that could not launch another attack. Blinken then publicly aligned himself with Austin’s comments, sparking a flurry of news reports.  ... The Hill (https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3525893-biden-told-austin-blinken-to-tone-down-remarks-supporting-ukraine-report/)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 17, 2022, 02:20:24 pm
Biden told Austin, Blinken to tone down remarks supporting Ukraine: report
by Ellen Mitchell - 06/16/22 9:04 AM ET

President Biden told Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin and Secretary of State Antony Blinken in April to tone down their rhetoric in supporting Ukraine in its war against Russia, NBC News reported Thursday.

The pushback reportedly came after the Pentagon chief said the Biden administration wanted Ukraine to win the war against the Kremlin and that the U.S. wanted a weakened Russia that could not launch another attack.

So basically, Biden still believes Russia will win.  Yet at the same time, he has set aside $40 billion for their use to rebuild what will become Greater Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 18, 2022, 11:50:22 am
Russian boat reportedly sunk while bringing supplies to Black Sea island made famous by Ukrainian guards

https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-06-17/ukraine-says-it-sunk-another-russian-ship-6373113.html (https://www.stripes.com/theaters/europe/2022-06-17/ukraine-says-it-sunk-another-russian-ship-6373113.html)

A Russian military tugboat carrying a surface-to-air missile launcher to Snake Island in the Black Sea sank after two Ukrainian missiles struck it, Kyiv announced Friday.

The Russian Black Sea Fleet tugboat Spasatel Vasily Bekh was part of an effort in recent weeks to resupply the contested, strategic island about 70 miles south of Odesa with personnel, weapons and ammunition, the Ukrainian Defense Ministry said in a separate Friday morning tweet.

Open source intelligence analysts said the sinking would be significant because of the boat’s value in resupplying Snake Island.

H.I. Sutton, a military open source intelligence analyst, said the pedestrian label of tugboats belied their importance as valid military targets.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 19, 2022, 12:36:56 am
Former Russian FSB Officer Now Fights For Ukraine

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj8eZhedc4E)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 19, 2022, 01:00:40 am
US Harpoon missiles destroyed a heavily-armed Russian vessel in the Black Sea, say Ukraine's military

Ukrainian military officials have said they struck the Russian Navy's Vasiliy Bekh tugboat in the Black Sea using two Harpoon missiles supplied by the US.

The action marks the first time Ukraine has announced it has destroyed a Russian vessel with Western-supplied armaments.

On Friday, the attack was announced on Ukraine's Armed Forces Strategic Communications Directorate's Telegram channel. It published a video purporting to show the anti-ship missile blowing up the vessel. Insider could not independently verify the footage.................

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/k49pNjFu98Q38fk_azF_IQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTcyMDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/IdmDEldTRSh9TfoDZncedw--~B/aD0xMzg1O3c9MTg0NjthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/business_insider_articles_888/1a6a25766ab6d07f75bb034050f8c89e)

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-harpoon-missiles-destroyed-heavily-175229244.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 19, 2022, 02:31:22 am
The thing that ALWAYS fries my fritters about this crap is that it is ALWAYS the innocents that die,in AND out of uniform,and the SOB's on the ego trips that start them seem to always get off and live in pensions that make them wealthy.

It's past time for the leaders to do a little dying. Do you hear me,Pooty-Poot?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 19, 2022, 06:56:21 pm
The thing that ALWAYS fries my fritters about this crap is that it is ALWAYS the innocents that die,in AND out of uniform

It is even worse when civilians are being purposely targeted.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 19, 2022, 08:25:12 pm
It is even worse when civilians are being purposely targeted.

@Hoodat

I disagree. A soldier is nothing more than a civilian in uniform,who is following the orders of his superiors.

They ain't made in some "soldier factory."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 20, 2022, 01:34:38 am
NATO's chief has it wrong!!! The U.S.A. cannot afford to keep throwing billions of $$$ at this war.

Ukraine war could last for years, warns Nato chief

The West must prepare to continue supporting Ukraine in a war lasting for years, Nato's chief has warned.

Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg said the costs of war were high, but the price of letting Moscow achieve its military goals was even greater.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson has also warned of a longer-term conflict.

And in a stark warning, the newly appointed head of the British Army said the UK and allies needed to be capable of winning a ground war with Russia.

Gen Sir Patrick Sanders, who started the job last week, said in an internal message seen by the BBC: "Russia's invasion of Ukraine underlines our core purpose - to protect the UK and to be ready to fight and win wars on land - and reinforces the requirement to deter Russian aggression with the threat of force."

Mr Stoltenberg and Mr Johnson said sending more weapons would make a victory for Ukraine more likely............

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61856144
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 20, 2022, 01:40:00 am
Ukraine war could last for years, warns Nato chief

Only if Biden gets his way.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 20, 2022, 03:28:45 am
My apologies for the rough translation.  The appointed head of the Kherson occupation government was assassinated by Kherson locals.


У Херсоні підірвали автівку начальника колонії, який перейшов на бік росіян

РОМАН ПЕТРЕНКО — СУБОТА, 18 ЧЕРВНЯ 2022, 13:36


On Admiral Senyavin Avenue in  Kherson, the car of the collaborator and head of the correctional colony Evgeny Sobolev exploded, the occupiers say that this is the work of "Ukrainian partisans".

Media write that the explosive device, which was attached to a tree, detonated on the car. The driver is still alive.

The Russian military announced the terrorist attack of Ukrainian partisans.  .  .

https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/06/18/7353239/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 20, 2022, 10:07:45 am
My apologies for the rough translation.  The appointed head of the Kherson occupation government was assassinated by Kherson locals.


У Херсоні підірвали автівку начальника колонії, який перейшов на бік росіян

РОМАН ПЕТРЕНКО — СУБОТА, 18 ЧЕРВНЯ 2022, 13:36


On Admiral Senyavin Avenue in  Kherson, the car of the collaborator and head of the correctional colony Evgeny Sobolev exploded, the occupiers say that this is the work of "Ukrainian partisans".

Media write that the explosive device, which was attached to a tree, detonated on the car. The driver is still alive.

The Russian military announced the terrorist attack of Ukrainian partisans.  .  .

https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/06/18/7353239/

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 20, 2022, 12:47:30 pm
Ukrainians blast Russian tank and two armoured vehicles with US-donated M777 howitzer as 'fierce battles' rage for eastern city of Severodonetsk

By WALTER FINCH FOR MAILONLINE
18 June 2022

Western-made weapons are starting to tell on the battlefields of eastern Ukraine as US-donated howitzers obliterate Russian tanks in the raging battle for Severodonetsk.

A video released by Ukraine's military shows artillery fire destroying a tank and two BMP infantry fighting vehicles as deadly precise shells rain in on them from up to 25 miles away.

Artillerymen of the 81st Airmobile Brigade were operating the US-donated, British-built M777 howitzer on the front lines around the eastern city of Severodonetsk in the Luhansk region.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10929841/Ukrainians-blast-Russian-tanks-donated-M777-howitzer-fierce-battles-rage-east.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 20, 2022, 12:58:20 pm
Russia blockading Ukrainian grain is a 'real war crime' - EU

2 hours ago

Russia's blockade of millions of tonnes of Ukrainian grain is a "real war crime", says EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell.


"It is inconceivable - one cannot imagine that millions of tonnes of wheat remain blocked in Ukraine while in the rest of the world people are suffering hunger," Mr Borrell said.

"We call on Russia to deblockade the [Ukrainian] ports."

EU foreign ministers are meeting to discuss the crisis.

Western countries have demanded Russia stop blockading Ukraine's Black Sea ports and allow vast stores of grain to reach world markets.

The blockade has sparked warnings that tens of millions of people are at risk of famine and sent food prices soaring.  .  .

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/128EE/production/_125541067_e33ce1b9-edf2-42c8-b032-c33af0f3ae5b.jpg)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61864049
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 20, 2022, 01:07:45 pm
'We need serious equipment and more tanks', says commander defending Severodonetsk

The commander of Ukraine's Svoboda or Freedom Battalion says "Russian tanks are hitting us from a distance of two kilometres and hiding behind buildings".

John Sparks, Lysychansk  |  17 June 2022 23:22, UK

It's dark in the bunker and the air is thick with smoke.

There is not much room to move around with wooden crates full of weapons and cigarettes stacked in every available space.

The living conditions are hardly ideal but the commander of Ukraine's Svoboda or Freedom Battalion does not seem worried.

His name is Petro Kuzyk, a former politician and environmental activist who is now helping to lead the defence of the city of Severodonetsk in eastern Ukraine.  .  .  .

.  .  .  "We need serious equipment and need more tanks," he adds. "At the moment, we're getting equipment for infantry soldiers. As a result, we have to fight a guerrilla war."

He offers a critique of his arsenal - that it is not big or powerful enough.

"The (British) NLAW destroys a tank from a distance of 400 metres," he says.

"The (US) Javelin doesn't work in a city where you have a lot of debris. You need field conditions. But Russian tanks are hitting us from a distance of two kilometres and hiding behind buildings.

"To destroy them we have to ambush them under constant artillery fire. It means constant losses."  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-we-need-serious-equipment-and-more-tanks-says-commander-defending-severodonetsk-12635951
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 20, 2022, 03:02:10 pm
My apologies for the rough translation.  The appointed head of the Kherson occupation government was assassinated by Kherson locals.


У Херсоні підірвали автівку начальника колонії, який перейшов на бік росіян

РОМАН ПЕТРЕНКО — СУБОТА, 18 ЧЕРВНЯ 2022, 13:36


On Admiral Senyavin Avenue in  Kherson, the car of the collaborator and head of the correctional colony Evgeny Sobolev exploded, the occupiers say that this is the work of "Ukrainian partisans".

Media write that the explosive device, which was attached to a tree, detonated on the car. The driver is still alive.

The Russian military announced the terrorist attack of Ukrainian partisans.  .  .

https://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2022/06/18/7353239/

Hopefully the Ukrainians will be able to continue these attacks behind enemy lines. The Russians are supposedly transporting large numbers of Ukrainians to parts unknown in Russia. I'm sure part of this is to send a message to those left behind that they better comply with the new order or face the same treatment.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 20, 2022, 08:54:29 pm
Ukraine hits oil Crimean drilling platforms, pro-Russian regional head says

June 20, 2022  |  8:06 AM EDT


June 20 (Reuters) - Ukrainian forces attacked drilling platforms in the Black Sea owned by a Crimean oil and gas company, the pro-Russian head of the annexed peninsula said on Monday, giving no details of what weapons were used.

Three people were wounded and a search was under way for seven workers from the Chernomorneftegaz energy company, Sergei Askyonov, the Russian-installed head of Crimea, said in a post on Telegram.

Crimean officials said work on three drilling platforms had been suspended after the hit, with fires reported.

Reuters was unable to immediately verify the reports. Ukraine's military declined to comment.  .  .

https://www.reuters.com/world/ukraine-hits-oil-crimean-drilling-platforms-pro-russian-regional-head-says-2022-06-20/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 21, 2022, 01:59:59 pm
Russian journalist's Nobel medal sells for $103.5m

5 hours ago


The Russian editor-in-chief of the independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta has auctioned off his Nobel Peace Prize medal for $103.5m (£84m).

Dmitry Muratov said all the money from the sale would go to help refugees from the war in Ukraine.

Muratov was co-awarded the peace prize in 2021 for defending freedom of expression in Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-61879343




I hope that the person with the highest bid returns the medal to Muratov once the war is over.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 21, 2022, 02:00:45 pm
Russian journalist's Nobel medal sells for $103.5m

5 hours ago


The Russian editor-in-chief of the independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta has auctioned off his Nobel Peace Prize medal for $103.5m (£84m).

Dmitry Muratov said all the money from the sale would go to help refugees from the war in Ukraine.

Muratov was co-awarded the peace prize in 2021 for defending freedom of expression in Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-61879343




I hope that the person with the highest bid returns the medal to Muratov once the war is over.

Must be one of the first times a Nobel Peace Prize was good for something.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 21, 2022, 02:39:37 pm
Jack Posobiec
@JackPosobiec

Zoolander 3 looks lit

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FVyHSE9XwAQcSPH?format=jpg&name=small)

10:28 AM · Jun 21, 2022   Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 21, 2022, 03:51:59 pm
Russian journalist's Nobel medal sells for $103.5m

5 hours ago


The Russian editor-in-chief of the independent newspaper Novaya Gazeta has auctioned off his Nobel Peace Prize medal for $103.5m (£84m).

Dmitry Muratov said all the money from the sale would go to help refugees from the war in Ukraine.

Muratov was co-awarded the peace prize in 2021 for defending freedom of expression in Russia.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-61879343




I hope that the person with the highest bid returns the medal to Muratov once the war is over.

@Hoodat

WOW! A public official,from freaking RUSSIA of all places,dares to stand up for truth in public,and even uses his own fortune to help those in another nation survive while trying to become free.

About 95 percent of the US Congress and Senate need to bow their heads in shame because not a single damn one of them have the sense of personal honor of this man in Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 21, 2022, 04:39:54 pm
@Hoodat

WOW! A public official,from freaking RUSSIA of all places,dares to stand up for truth in public,and even uses his own fortune to help those in another nation survive while trying to become free.

About 95 percent of the US Congress and Senate need to bow their heads in shame because not a single damn one of them have the sense of personal honor of this man in Russia.

Yep.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 21, 2022, 05:42:04 pm
Checkpoints, Disappearances, Interrogations: Life In Occupied Kherson

Olga SHYLENKO  |  June 21, 2022


Alyona Lapchuk spent weeks looking for her husband before she found out he was dead when his body turned up in a river in the Russian-occupied city of Kherson.

Speaking by phone to an AFP journalist in Europe, Lapchuk said her husband Vitaliy had gone missing after he was interrogated by Russian troops in Kherson, their hometown near Moscow-annexed Crimea.

The city in southern Ukraine, which had 300,000 inhabitants before the war, fell into Russian hands barely a week into the invasion and has since been virtually cut off from the outside world.

When the fighting began, Vitaliy Lapchuk, 48, was working in Kyiv and he rushed back home to join the city's territorial defence.

And on March 27, some three weeks after it fell, he simply disappeared.

Lapchuk, 54, said she repeatedly tried to call him but he never answered.

"I called again and again. Suddenly, the calls started being rejected, and I realised we had a problem," she told AFP from the safety of a new location inside Ukraine-held territory, without saying where.

Hours later, three cars marked with the letter Z -- the symbol used by Russian troops in Ukraine -- stopped outside her home and she went out to the gate.

The soldiers pulled her husband out of one of the cars, but she almost didn't recognise him because his face was drenched in blood.

Entering the house at gunpoint, they removed phones and laptops. All her husband was able to say to her was that they had promised him they "wouldn't lay a hand on the family".

Then they put a bag over the head of their eldest son, who is 34, and did the same to her and her husband.

"I will never forget the look on Vitaliy's face when those bags were put over our heads," she said.

"I never saw my husband's face again."

After being questioned, she says they were dumped under a bridge and when they took off the bags, she and her son were alone.

For more than two months, they heard nothing.

Then on June 9, she was told some fishermen had found his body at the bottom of a river, his feet weighed down with a rock.  .  .  .

https://www.barrons.com/news/checkpoints-disappearances-interrogations-life-in-occupied-kherson-01655794207
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 21, 2022, 05:50:44 pm
Ukrainian Military Pushed Back Invaders From First Line Of Defense In Kherson Region

Даша Зубкова  |  20 JUNE 2022, MONDAY, 14:37


(https://ukranews.com/upload/media/2022/05/30/62945cbf12e2b-284983945_328043296175422_8469313938984188815_n.jpg)

The Ukrainian military pushed back the Russian invaders from the first line of defense in Kherson region. Now the enemy is fortifying on the second and third lines of defense. This was stated by the adviser to the head of the Kherson Regional Military Administration Serhii Khlan, Espresso reports.
Thus, Khlan reported that the invaders were gaining a foothold on the coast of the Inhulets river.

"The Armed Forces of Ukraine delivered accurate strikes on the warehouses located in the rear. In Nova Kakhovka, there was a precise hit on the enemy's ammunition depots 3 times in a row. Near Sofiyevka, near the village of Davydiv Brid, there were counteroffensive actions. There, the enemy is gaining a foothold on the coast of the Inhulets river," he said.

According to him, in Kherson region, the Armed Forces of Ukraine had an advantage over the Russian military.

"Along the entire front line, we had an advantage for 2 weeks. This was coordinated together with the partisan movement, which is intensifying in the occupied Kherson region and operating together with the Armed Forces of Ukraine.  .  .

https://ukranews.com/en/news/864024-ukrainian-military-pushed-back-invaders-from-first-line-of-defense-in-kherson-region



Due to lack of heavy equipment, Ukraine is beginning to adopt guerilla tactics against Russia.  Again, we could have been providing such training and assistance since Feb.  But no.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2022, 01:10:04 pm
Ukraine deals 'significant' blow to Putin's Black Sea forces after pounding Snake Island garrison - as British intelligence outlines Russia's 'extraordinary' losses during invasion

By JACK NEWMAN FOR MAILONLINE
22 June 2022

Ukraine has claimed a 'significant' victory against Putin's Black Sea forces after pounding the Russian garrison on the strategic Snake Island.

The southern operational command said it had 'aimed strikes with the use of various forces' on the island, causing major losses to Kremlin troops.

Satellite images show the damage wrought by Kyiv forces, with burning vegetation and a tower destroyed in the fight for the island.

The Russian Pantsir anti-aircraft system, a radar station and vehicles were all damaged in the attacks on the island which has been a major battleground throughout the war.

It is just the latest blow for Putin who has suffered 'extraordinary' losses with pro-Russian separatists in Donetsk losing 55 per cent of its troops, British intelligence said today.

The Ministry of Defence said Russia's outdated weapons and equipment have hampered their success, and the Kremlin will now have to deploy reserve units to the Donbas to make up for the losses.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10940985/Ukraine-deals-significant-blow-Putins-Black-Sea-forces-pounding-Snake-Island-garrison.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 22, 2022, 01:11:51 pm
Dramatic moment Ukrainian kamikaze drone ploughs in to major oil refinery inside Russian territory sparking huge fireball explosion

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
22 June 2022

A Ukrainian kamikaze drone today ploughed in to a major oil refinery inside Russian territory, sparking a huge fireball explosion.

Footage shows the unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) flying at a low-level height towards the Novoshakhtinsk oil refinery in the Rostov region, which borders Ukraine.

Video then shows the drone striking the oil refinery, causing a massive explosion which was heard ten miles away.

Flames engulfed the building and black smoke poured from the key strategic facilities, located some four miles from the pro-Putin puppet state Luhansk People's Republic in Ukraine.

Russian workers, who unwittingly filmed the drone strike, were heard laughing at the sight of the drone as it flew close to them - but they panicked and swore repeatedly after it struck the refinery, with one shouting 'f*****g run away'.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10941085/Dramatic-moment-Ukrainian-kamikaze-drone-ploughs-major-oil-refinery-inside-Russian-territory.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 22, 2022, 03:33:28 pm
Checkpoints, Disappearances, Interrogations: Life In Occupied Kherson

Olga SHYLENKO  |  June 21, 2022


Alyona Lapchuk spent weeks looking for her husband before she found out he was dead when his body turned up in a river in the Russian-occupied city of Kherson.

Speaking by phone to an AFP journalist in Europe, Lapchuk said her husband Vitaliy had gone missing after he was interrogated by Russian troops in Kherson, their hometown near Moscow-annexed Crimea.

The city in southern Ukraine, which had 300,000 inhabitants before the war, fell into Russian hands barely a week into the invasion and has since been virtually cut off from the outside world.

When the fighting began, Vitaliy Lapchuk, 48, was working in Kyiv and he rushed back home to join the city's territorial defence.

And on March 27, some three weeks after it fell, he simply disappeared.

Lapchuk, 54, said she repeatedly tried to call him but he never answered.

"I called again and again. Suddenly, the calls started being rejected, and I realised we had a problem," she told AFP from the safety of a new location inside Ukraine-held territory, without saying where.

Hours later, three cars marked with the letter Z -- the symbol used by Russian troops in Ukraine -- stopped outside her home and she went out to the gate.

The soldiers pulled her husband out of one of the cars, but she almost didn't recognise him because his face was drenched in blood.

Entering the house at gunpoint, they removed phones and laptops. All her husband was able to say to her was that they had promised him they "wouldn't lay a hand on the family".

Then they put a bag over the head of their eldest son, who is 34, and did the same to her and her husband.

"I will never forget the look on Vitaliy's face when those bags were put over our heads," she said.

"I never saw my husband's face again."

After being questioned, she says they were dumped under a bridge and when they took off the bags, she and her son were alone.

For more than two months, they heard nothing.

Then on June 9, she was told some fishermen had found his body at the bottom of a river, his feet weighed down with a rock.  .  .  .

https://www.barrons.com/news/checkpoints-disappearances-interrogations-life-in-occupied-kherson-01655794207

Sure sounds like the old USSR is back.

Anyone who doesn't want to see Russia defeated in Ukraine needs to have their head examined. The outcry shouldn't be about the amount of money being thrown around it should be about why isn't that money being used to procure weapons to kill the Russians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 22, 2022, 05:25:24 pm
The outcry shouldn't be about the amount of money being thrown around it should be about why isn't that money being used to procure weapons to kill the Russians.

Yep.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 22, 2022, 10:29:16 pm
Chinese state-sponsored media are taking offense at propaganda.  :pondering:
Quote
Global Times
@globaltimesnews
China state-affiliated media
#GTGraphic: From a "corrupt nation" to the "beacon of democracy", all it takes is a word game by Western media. #UkraineCrisis @_ValiantPanda_
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV2s3nnVEAADH6l?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 23, 2022, 12:46:42 am
Ukrainian Artillery Reportedly Takes Out Russian Troops in Kherson Region

JOSEPH GOLDER, ZENGER NEWS  |  6/21/22 AT 3:02 PM EDT


Images purport to show Ukrainian troops taking out Russian soldiers in the Kherson region of southern Ukraine.

The released footage appears to show Ukrainian artillery targeting entrenched Russian positions in the area.

It is unclear where exactly in the Kherson Oblast region of southern Ukraine the images were filmed but they were obtained Monday evening from the 36th Separate Marine Brigade, which is part of the Ukrainian Navy, and they said: "The Nikolaev Marines are actively preparing to take part in the 'Kherson referendum'!"

https://www.newsweek.com/ukrainian-artillery-reportedly-takes-out-russian-troops-kherson-region-1717804
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 23, 2022, 01:30:34 am
Half Russian separatist force dead or wounded - UK

By Paul Kirby - BBC  |  14 hours ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/118F8/production/_125582917_dnrgetty.jpg)
Separatist fighters in Mariupol in March

Russian and Russian proxy forces in the Donetsk region of Ukraine have suffered heavy casualties, according to UK intelligence officials.

They estimate the Donetsk militia alone has lost 55% of its original force.

Russian forces are focused on conquering all of neighbouring Luhansk, aiming to encircle the city of Lysychansk, say Ukrainian leaders.

Regional chief Serhiy Haidai said there had been "colossal destruction" in the city.

He said the situation in its sister city of Severodonetsk was "hell", and quoted the mayor as saying some 7,000-8,000 civilians remained there.

UK military intelligence said Russia was very likely aiming to deploy a large number of reserve units to Ukraine's eastern Donbas, which is made up of Donetsk and Luhansk.  It drew attention to the "extraordinary attrition" suffered by Russian and Russian proxy forces in Donbas. While Russia has for months avoided detailing its casualties, the human rights ombudsman in the so-called Donetsk People's Republic said last week that 2,128 of its forces had been killed and 8,897 wounded.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61891462



DPR forces will be dying in Kherson in the coming weeks since their Soviet masters have ordered them there.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 23, 2022, 01:38:19 am
If we can just get enough weapons to the Ukrainians they will do the job that needs to done. We will know the tide is starting to swing back to the Ukrainians if they can continue the push to Kherson. The attack on Snake island is a good sign. I'm more than disappointed that their hands have been tied about destroying the bridge that feeds into Crimea.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 23, 2022, 05:57:03 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FV7MNhzXgAEfPEh?format=jpg&name=small)

Expect tank kills to go up now that Russia is equipping its DPR 'allies' [sic] with 'brand new' T-62s.  That shows you what Russians think of Ukrainians who fight for their side.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 24, 2022, 01:31:01 am
Ukraine gains European Union candidate status

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/ukraine-gains-european-union-candidate-status/ (https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/ukraine-gains-european-union-candidate-status/)

The European Union granted candidate status to Ukraine on Thursday to become a member of the international body.

The European Commission, which acts as the executive body of the E.U., announced its recommendation to grant candidate status to Ukraine along with Moldova and Georgia.

“Today’s Opinions are based on the Commission’s assessment in light of the three sets of criteria to join the E.U. agreed by the European Council: political criteria, economic criteria and the ability of the country to assume the obligations of E.U. membership (E.U. acquis),” the European Commission’s statement read. “The Opinions also take into account Ukraine, Moldova and Georgia’s efforts in implementing their obligations under the Association Agreements (AA), including the Deep and Comprehensive Free Trade Areas (DCFTA), which cover significant parts of the EU acquis.”

Granting candidate status to a country requires the unanimous consent of all E.U. member nations and is the first stage in the potentially lengthy process to gain full membership.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 24, 2022, 02:32:28 am
The European Union granted candidate status to Ukraine on Thursday to become a member of the international body.

Back to where we were in 2013 right before Yanukovych sold out the country.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 24, 2022, 03:10:20 am
Kaliningrad row: 'Sanctions have brought my factory to a standstill'

Steve Rosenberg  - Kaliningrad  |  1 day ago


Igor Pleshkov gives me a tour of his concrete business in Kaliningrad.

Not that he's doing much business right now.

Igor's factory has pretty much come to a standstill.

"We produce commercial concrete, iron concrete and paving stones. We first experienced a shortage of cement back in March, after Europe imposed sanctions on Russian banks.

"Trains with cement were being turned back at the Lithuanian border, because the rolling stock was owned by leasing companies who were under sanctions.

"As of June, we haven't produced a single cubic metre."  .  .  .

.  .  .  "These sanctions aren't only affecting our business, they affect everyone," Igor explains. "We aren't making anything, so builders can't build anything. There's a chain reaction. We have nothing to pay contractors, taxes or wages."

The authorities in Kaliningrad say there's nothing to panic about and they plan to bring in more goods by sea. But expect logistical difficulties and higher costs.

Back in Moscow, Russian officials are furious. They've been taking aim at Lithuania, the EU, Nato and the West in general.

This week Nikolai Patrushev, head of Russia's powerful Security Council and one of President Vladimir Putin's closest allies, flew to Kaliningrad for meetings. There he warned Russia's response - whatever form it takes - would have "a serious negative impact" on the Lithuanian people.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61902322



Now they know how the people of West Berlin felt in 1948.  Except the people of West Berlin were completely trapped, while Königsberg still have access to the rest of the world by road, rail, sea, and air.  Russia can kiss my ass.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 24, 2022, 12:26:41 pm
Ukrainian army to leave battered city to avoid encirclement

By Associated Press
June 24, 2022

After weeks of ferocious fighting, Ukrainian forces will retreat from a besieged city in the country’s east to avoid encirclement, a regional governor said Friday.

The city of Sievierodonetsk, the administrative center of the Luhansk region, has faced relentless Russian bombardment. Ukrainian troops fought the Russians in house-to-house battles before retreating to a huge chemical factory on the city’s edge, where they holed up in its sprawling underground structures.

In recent days, Russian forces have made gains around Sievierodonetsk and the neighboring city of Lysychansk, on a steep bank across the river, in a bid to encircle Ukrainian forces.

Luhansk Gov. Serhiy Haidai said that the Ukrainian troops have been given the order to leave Sievierodonetsk to prevent that.

“We will have to pull back our guys,” he said. “It makes no sense to stay at the destroyed positions, because the number of casualties in poorly fortified areas will grow every day.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/24/ukrainian-army-to-leave-battered-city-of-sievierodonetsk-to-avoid-encirclement/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 25, 2022, 03:51:42 pm
Ukraine reports attack from Belarus, fighting in Lysychansk

https://guardian.ng/news/world/ukraine-reports-attack-from-belarus-fighting-in-lysychansk/ (https://guardian.ng/news/world/ukraine-reports-attack-from-belarus-fighting-in-lysychansk/)

Quote
Ukraine said it came under “massive bombardment” Saturday from neighbouring Belarus, a Russian ally not officially involved in the conflict, as clashes were reported in the streets of the eastern city of Lysychansk.

Twenty rockets “fired from the territory of Belarus and from the air” targeted the village of Desna in the northern Chernigiv region, Ukraine’s northern military command said.

It said infrastructure was hit, but no casualties had yet been reported.

Belarus has provided logistic support to Moscow since the February 24 invasion, particularly in the first few weeks, and like Russia has been targeted by Western sanctions — but is officially not involved in the conflict.

“Today’s strike is directly linked to Kremlin efforts to pull Belarus as a co-belligerent into the war in Ukraine,” the Ukrainian intelligence service said.

The attack came ahead of a planned meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and his Belarussian counterpart and close ally Alexander Lukashenko in Saint Petersburg on Saturday.

Ukraine’s Western allies meanwhile will gather on Sunday at a summit of G7 leaders in Germany, during which Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelensky is set to speak via video-link.

US President Joe Biden will be attending the G7 meeting and a summit of the NATO military alliance in Madrid next week.

Lysychansk under fire

The Western allies will take stock of the effectiveness of sanctions imposed so far against Moscow, consider possible new aid for Ukraine, and begin turning their eye to longer-term reconstruction plans.

The European Union offered a strong show of support on Thursday when it granted Ukraine candidate status, although the path to membership is long.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 25, 2022, 04:33:04 pm
Russia is firing air-launched cruise missiles into Ukraine from Belarus airspace.  Chickenshit cowards.  Russia is going to drag Belarus into this war one way or another.  Unfortunately, Lukashenko doesn't give a damn about Byelorussian lives.  Their army will end up on the front line as cannon fodder for Ukraine defenses just as Russia is doing with DPR and LPR forces.  There's a lot of dying happening on the Russian side, but very few of them are western Russians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on June 25, 2022, 06:57:10 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aLv3r56_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 26, 2022, 02:41:39 am
Ukrainian soldiers coming off the front line in Sievierodonetsk.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWFZUYEXgAAh8Vj?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 26, 2022, 02:48:48 am
Severodonetsk now under Russian control following weeks-long battle

Previously home to more than 100,000 people, Severodonetsk has been largely destroyed following concentrated shelling during the Russian offensive.

Saturday 25 June 2022 18:27, UK

The Ukrainian city of Severodonetsk is now under the "full occupation" of Russian forces following a weeks-long battle.


Mayor Oleksand Stryuk said on national television: "The city is now under the full occupation of Russia. They are trying to establish their own order, as far as I know they have appointed some kind of commandant."

Russia's Interfax news agency also cited the defence ministry as saying the city in the Luhansk was now under full control of Russian forces.

Previously home to more than 100,000 people, Severodonetsk is now largely destroyed following concentrated shelling during the Russian offensive.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-severodonetsk-now-under-russian-control-following-weeks-long-battle-12640364
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 26, 2022, 02:56:14 am
Ukraine gives ICC new purpose after 20 troubled years

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220626-ukraine-gives-icc-new-purpose-after-20-troubled-years (https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220626-ukraine-gives-icc-new-purpose-after-20-troubled-years)

Quote
The Hague (AFP) – Its first two decades have brought criticism and controversy but as the International Criminal Court marks its 20th birthday the Ukraine war is giving it a new impetus.

Since its founding Rome Statute entered force on July 1, 2002, the world's only permanent war crimes court has had a poor record of just five convictions.

The Hague-based ICC is also accused of focusing on African suspects and suffers from the absence of key countries like the United States, China, Russia and Israel.

But it remains the court of last resort for grave charges such as genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes and aggression, when member states are unable or unwilling to prosecute.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has made the international community realise the importance of the rule of law, says ICC prosecutor Karim Khan.

"If we don't hold on to the law today, I think there is very little hope for anybody's tomorrow," Khan told AFP.

"That growing realisation has been rendered more acute because of the events of the 24th of February and the events in Ukraine -- and I think it's long overdue."

The ICC will hold a special 20th anniversary conference on Friday, which it says is "an occasion for reflections on how well the ICC has met expectations".

And those expectations have always been high.

- 'Lofty goals' -

The ICC is the successor to the Nuremberg trials of Nazi war criminals, when the post-war international order sought an ideal of global justice.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 26, 2022, 03:00:58 am
Russia to send Belarus nuclear-capable missiles within months, as G7 leaders gather in Germany | Ukraine

https://bsfqh.com/russia-to-send-belarus-nuclear-capable-missiles-within-months-as-g7-leaders-gather-in-germany-ukraine/ (https://bsfqh.com/russia-to-send-belarus-nuclear-capable-missiles-within-months-as-g7-leaders-gather-in-germany-ukraine/)

Quote
Russia will deliver missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads to Belarus in the coming months, President Vladimir Putin has said as he received Belarusian leader Alexander Lukashenko.

“In the coming months, we will transfer to Belarus Iskander-M tactical missile systems, which can use ballistic or cruise missiles, in their conventional and nuclear versions,” Putin said in a broadcast on Russian television at the start of his meeting with Lukashenko in St Petersburg on Saturdays.

Putin has several times referred to nuclear weapons since his country launched a military operation in Ukraine on 24 February, in what the west has seen as a warning not to intervene. Lukashenko said last month that his country had bought Iskander nuclear-capable missiles and S-400 anti-aircraft anti-missile systems from Russia.

The development came on the eve of a meeting of G7 leaders in Germany on Sunday, to be hosted by Chancellor Olaf Scholz in the Bavarian alps, which is set to be dominated by Ukraine and its far-reaching consequences, from energy shortages to a food crisis.

The G7 leaders are expected to seek to show a united front on supporting Ukraine for as long as necessary and cranking up pressure on the Kremlin – although they will want to avoid sanctions that could stoke inflation and exacerbate the global cost-of-living crisis.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 26, 2022, 03:01:01 am
80% of troops killed or injured in elite military unit, says commander - and its future is unclear

Speaking to Sky News near the frontline, south of the city of Severodonetsk, the company commander says a core of experienced soldiers who had been fighting together since 2018 have been lost.

John Sparks - Donbas, Ukraine  |  25 June 2022 19:59, UK

A commander of an elite unit of Ukrainian marines has told Sky News the majority of his best trained troops have been injured or killed.


Speaking near the frontline, south of the city of Severodonetsk, company commander Oleksandr said a core of experienced soldiers who had been fighting together since 2018 have been lost.

"My unit was 100% made up of professional soldiers who have a lot of experience. Now, 80% are incapacitated from serious injuries or death," he says.

In comments which will alarm those backing Ukraine in its four-month long war with Russia, he says he does not know how long his unit can sustain such losses.

"I don't even know how to answer this question," Oleksandr says.

"It's hard. It's hard but we have no choice."  .  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-80-of-troops-killed-or-injured-in-elite-military-unit-says-commander-and-its-future-is-unclear-12639752
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 26, 2022, 03:07:21 am
Russian-installed Kherson official killed in bomb blast

June 24, 2022  |  6:22 AM EDT


LONDON, June 24 (Reuters) - A senior official in the Russian-installed administration of Ukraine’s occupied Kherson region was killed in an apparent assassination on Friday, the deputy head of the administration told Reuters.

Dmitry Savluchenko, head of the families, youth, and sports department of the Kherson Military-Civilian Administration, was killed in a bomb blast.

Russia's TASS news agency said there were two burnt-out cars in a courtyard of Kherson, the regional capital where the blast took place, and that the windows of one four-storey house had been shattered.

An adviser to the Ukrainian governor of Kherson told Ukraine's public news network Suspilne that the assassination was the "successful work of partisans" directed by Ukraine's armed forces.  .  .

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-installed-kherson-official-killed-bomb-blast-2022-06-24/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on June 26, 2022, 11:32:11 am
US sending patrol boats to help Ukraine control its rivers

American Military News by Tara Copp - The Miami Herald   June 25, 2022

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/us-sending-patrol-boats-to-help-ukraine-control-its-rivers/ (https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/us-sending-patrol-boats-to-help-ukraine-control-its-rivers/)

Quote
Ukraine will get 18 patrol boats to help defend its waterways and ports in the latest tranche of U.S. military aid, a senior defense official said Friday.

The 18 boats include two 35-foot riverine craft, six 40-foot maritime combat craft boats and ten 34-foot Dauntless Sea Ark patrol boats, the official said.

The boats are part of a $450 million package announced Thursday by the Biden administration and are “largely to protect the riverways,” the official said. They were requested by the Ukrainian government to help it maintain access to its rivers and “close-in coastal areas.”

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 26, 2022, 01:34:17 pm
Russian-installed Kherson official killed in bomb blast

June 24, 2022  |  6:22 AM EDT


LONDON, June 24 (Reuters) - A senior official in the Russian-installed administration of Ukraine’s occupied Kherson region was killed in an apparent assassination on Friday, the deputy head of the administration told Reuters.

Dmitry Savluchenko, head of the families, youth, and sports department of the Kherson Military-Civilian Administration, was killed in a bomb blast.

Russia's TASS news agency said there were two burnt-out cars in a courtyard of Kherson, the regional capital where the blast took place, and that the windows of one four-storey house had been shattered.

An adviser to the Ukrainian governor of Kherson told Ukraine's public news network Suspilne that the assassination was the "successful work of partisans" directed by Ukraine's armed forces.  .  .

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-installed-kherson-official-killed-bomb-blast-2022-06-24/

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 26, 2022, 04:42:16 pm
Beast from the East! Panicking Putin 'calls up OBESE 280lbs retired general, 67, to lead forces in Ukraine' after 'most of his best and battle-hardened senior commanders are killed' in war

By WALTER FINCH FOR MAILONLINE
26 June 2022

Putin has called an obese general out of retirement to take command of forces in Ukraine after yet another round of purges of top commanders has left him 'scraping the barrel'.

The 20 stone General Pavel, 67, has been summoned from his comfortable life in the Moscow suburbs and told to don his specially-made army fatigues and go to the front lines of eastern Ukraine.

He will now take charge of Russian special forces operating in the region after the unit's former commander was seriously injured in an artillery strike.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10954233/Beast-East-Panicking-Putin-calls-OBESE-20st-retired-general-lead-forces-Ukraine.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 26, 2022, 05:54:25 pm
Ukraine war: UK joins ban on imports of Russian gold

The UK, US, Canada and Japan will ban imports of Russian gold in an effort to hit Moscow's ability to fund the war in Ukraine.

The UK PM said the move would "strike at the heart of Putin's war machine".

Gold exports were worth £12.6bn ($15.4bn) to Russia in 2021, and the UK says their importance has increased since the invasion as oligarchs rush to buy bullion to avoid sanctions.

It comes as the G7 group of the world's richest nations meet in Germany.

US President Biden suggested the other G7 nations - Germany, France and Italy - would also join the ban.

"Together, the G7 will announce that we will ban the import of Russian gold, a major export that rakes in tens of billions of dollars for Russia," he said in a tweet.

UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson added: "We need to starve the Putin regime of its funding. The UK and our allies are doing just that."...................

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-61941589
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on June 26, 2022, 07:29:10 pm
Russia promises Belarus Iskander-M nuclear-capable missiles

Russia will send nuclear capable short-range missile systems to its ally Belarus in the coming months, President Vladimir Putin has said.

He said Iskander-M systems "can fire ballistic and cruise missiles, both conventional and nuclear types".

The systems have a range of up to 500km (310 miles).

Tensions between Russia and the West have escalated, following President Putin's decision to invade Ukraine on 24 February.

Mr Putin has made several references to nuclear weapons since then, which some have interpreted as a warning to Western countries not to intervene.

Speaking in St Petersburg, Mr Putin said Russia would help to modify Belarusian Su-25 warplanes so that they could carry nuclear weapons, in response to a query from Belarus leader Alexander Lukashenko.

Meanwhile several explosions were reported in Kyiv on Sunday morning, the city's Mayor Vitali Klitschko said.

"Ambulances and rescuers are on site. In two buildings, the rescue and evacuation of residents is under way," he added.

AFP news agency reported that a residential complex in the city had been hit.

On Saturday Ukraine said Russian forces had "fully occupied" the key eastern city of Severodonetsk, following weeks of fierce fighting.............

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61938111
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 26, 2022, 07:33:12 pm
It doesn't mean he's given Belarus actual nukes, but if a nuke hits Kyiv from there it will be deep schitt.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 26, 2022, 07:34:09 pm
Russia promises Belarus Iskander-M nuclear-capable missiles

Russia will send nuclear capable short-range missile systems to its ally Belarus in the coming months, President Vladimir Putin has said.

He said Iskander-M systems "can fire ballistic and cruise missiles, both conventional and nuclear types".

The systems have a range of up to 500km (310 miles).

Tensions between Russia and the West have escalated, following President Putin's decision to invade Ukraine on 24 February.

Mr Putin has made several references to nuclear weapons since then, which some have interpreted as a warning to Western countries not to intervene.

Speaking in St Petersburg, Mr Putin said Russia would help to modify Belarusian Su-25 warplanes so that they could carry nuclear weapons, in response to a query from Belarus leader Alexander Lukashenko.

Meanwhile several explosions were reported in Kyiv on Sunday morning, the city's Mayor Vitali Klitschko said.

"Ambulances and rescuers are on site. In two buildings, the rescue and evacuation of residents is under way," he added.

AFP news agency reported that a residential complex in the city had been hit.

On Saturday Ukraine said Russian forces had "fully occupied" the key eastern city of Severodonetsk, following weeks of fierce fighting.............

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61938111

Since Belarus no longer has any nuclear warheads, "nuclear-capable" is about all they've got. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 26, 2022, 08:21:44 pm
Russia promises Belarus Iskander-M nuclear-capable missiles

Russia will send nuclear capable short-range missile systems to its ally Belarus in the coming months, President Vladimir Putin has said.

He said Iskander-M systems "can fire ballistic and cruise missiles, both conventional and nuclear types".

The systems have a range of up to 500km (310 miles).

Roughly the distance between Minsk and Warsaw.  This is a move solidifying Belarus as an ally against NATO.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 26, 2022, 10:03:59 pm
It doesn't mean he's given Belarus actual nukes, but if a nuke hits Kyiv from there it will be deep schitt.
The obvious retaliatory target would be in Belarus, not Moscow. So, if Russia 'accidentally' ships a nuke, well, oops. If we had a real president, he'd make sure the consequences of any such 'oversight' would be dire, and it would be known.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 27, 2022, 01:34:08 am
It doesn't mean he's given Belarus actual nukes, but if a nuke hits Kyiv from there it will be deep schitt.

Sending nuclear capable missiles to Belarus and firing cruise missiles from Belarus air space is an indicator that Russia is not doing well. They have been grinding forward very slowly, but they are suffering losses just like Ukraine or worse. Russia has depleted a lot of resources for a small amount of territory. Ukraine has not broken even though they are losing a lot of men. Now HMRLs are arriving and as the lend lease program kicks in more modern equipment will be coming.

Putin is trying to escalate leading into an attempted de-escalation.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 27, 2022, 02:57:47 pm
Tracking where Russia is taking Ukraine's stolen grain

By Nick Beake, Maria Korenyuk and Reality Check team
BBC News
June 27, 2022

There's mounting evidence that Russian forces in occupied areas of Ukraine have been systematically stealing grain and other produce from local farmers. The BBC has talked to farmers and analysed satellite images and shipping data to track where the grain is going.

A few dozen miles from the frontline, Ukrainian farmer Dmytro describes how the business he nurtured over 25 years was lost in four months of Russian occupation.

The BBC tried to contact more than 200 farmers whose land is now in Russian-occupied territory. Dmytro - we are not using his real name to protect him from reprisals - was one of the few willing to meet us.

"They stole our grain. They destroyed our premises, destroyed our equipment."

He says Russian forces now occupy 80% of the tens of thousands of hectares he farms and accuses them of stealing grain on an industrial scale.

CCTV from one of the company's sites captured the moment the Russians arrived. We've blurred some of the surroundings to protect the identities of the farm owners.

Later in the footage, one soldier spots a security camera and shoots at it, but misses.

Grain trucks were stolen and Dmytro says a couple of them had GPS trackers fitted.

We were able to use this data to see they had gone south into Crimea, which Russia annexed in 2014, and then on to Russia.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.bbc.com/news/61790625
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 27, 2022, 03:01:17 pm
Ukraine war in maps: Tracking the Russian invasion

By The Visual Journalism Team
BBC News
June 27, 2022

Heavy fighting continues in east Ukraine, with key locations under intense bombardment from Russian forces.

Here are the latest developments:

* Russian missile have struck Kyiv for the first time since April

* Russian forces consolidated control over eastern city of Severodonetsk

* Russian troops are continuing to attack Ukrainian positions north of Kharkiv city

* Ukrainian positions in the south have come under shelling

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60506682
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on June 27, 2022, 05:00:45 pm
Scenes of Horror as Putin Hits Mall With ‘1,000 People’ Inside

Shannon Vavra
Mon, June 27, 2022 at 10:14 AM

Russia fired a series of rockets at a shopping center in Kremenchuk, Ukraine, on Monday, raising alarm bells that Russia is stepping up its attacks on civilian structures regardless of the loss of life.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said Monday there were more than a thousand civilians inside the shopping mall and the casualties to come might bring even more shock and horror to Ukrainian people already confronting so much death and destruction as Russia has been waging war in Ukraine for 124 days.

“The number of victims is impossible to imagine,” Zelensky said on Telegram. “The mall is on fire, rescuers are fighting the fire.”

more
https://twitter.com/grishchukroma/status/1541428135366909958
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on June 27, 2022, 10:00:05 pm
The obvious retaliatory target would be in Belarus, not Moscow. So, if Russia 'accidentally' ships a nuke, well, oops. If we had a real president, he'd make sure the consequences of any such 'oversight' would be dire, and it would be known.

@Smokin Joe

Not to worry,I am positive Biden and his handlers are already taking bids to not intervene.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 27, 2022, 10:41:37 pm
@Smokin Joe

Not to worry,I am positive Biden and his handlers are already taking bids to not intervene.
I am not so sure the Chinese would ante up much for that. Gotta be Russia Russia Russia...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 28, 2022, 04:54:31 pm
Scenes of Horror as Putin Hits Mall With ‘1,000 People’ Inside

Shannon Vavra
Mon, June 27, 2022 at 10:14 AM

Russia fired a series of rockets at a shopping center in Kremenchuk, Ukraine, on Monday, raising alarm bells that Russia is stepping up its attacks on civilian structures regardless of the loss of life.

Hovhannes
@JughaFedayi

The red bricks of the building across the lake indicate that Russia explicitly hit the Kredmash plant, and not the mall. The blast location is nowhere near the mall.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWVp1xIX0AAvEx8?format=jpg&name=900x900) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWVp1xNWAAEuRGk?format=jpg&name=360x360)

8:07 AM · Jun 28, 2022  Twitter Web App



Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

That would make sense. Burning debris or just the fire spreading from the first missile that hit the southern part of the factory. It's quite obvious from the damage that the mall wasn't directly hit by a missile.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWV1crGX0AEQPsV?format=png&name=small)

9:00 AM · Jun 28, 2022  Twitter Web App

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 28, 2022, 04:57:34 pm
"Video of the factory after the Russian missile strike."

https://mobile.twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1541754999671242753
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on June 28, 2022, 05:02:50 pm
AFP News Agency
@AFP

Russia offensive can end as soon as Ukraine surrenders: Kremlin

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWVWqMwXwAA56Dw?format=png&name=small)

6:42 AM · Jun 28, 2022  TweetDeck
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 28, 2022, 05:05:21 pm
AFP News Agency
@AFP

Russia offensive can end as soon as Ukraine surrenders: Kremlin

War Crimes and the wholesale massacre of civilians can end as soon as Russia gets the hell out of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on June 28, 2022, 05:09:18 pm
"Video of the factory after the Russian missile strike."

So where is the overhead 'after' photo of the factory?  Oops.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 28, 2022, 05:29:28 pm
AFP News Agency
@AFP

Russia offensive can end as soon as Ukraine surrenders: Kremlin

6:42 AM · Jun 28, 2022  TweetDeck

Either the author doesn't understand why people fight wars, or he/she/it simply wants Russia to subjugate the entire country soon-to-be formerly known as Ukraine.  Being a French news source, it could be either.  There's a reason rational people call the French "cheese eating surrender monkeys."

We could have avoided the Civil War by simply caving in to the Democrats and let them keep their slaves.  The War of 1812 could have been avoided it we simply said, "You know, you're right!  We can't cut this running our own country's business.  Please enjoy the marshmallow roast at our Capitol building."

The post I'm quoting is an example of this, and it requires zero brains to just type it out on a website.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 28, 2022, 09:45:58 pm
Either the author doesn't understand why people fight wars, or he/she/it simply wants Russia to subjugate the entire country soon-to-be formerly known as Ukraine.  Being a French news source, it could be either.  There's a reason rational people call the French "cheese eating surrender monkeys."

We could have avoided the Civil War by simply caving in to the Democrats and let them keep their slaves.  The War of 1812 could have been avoided it we simply said, "You know, you're right!  We can't cut this running our own country's business.  Please enjoy the marshmallow roast at our Capitol building."

The post I'm quoting is an example of this, and it requires zero brains to just type it out on a website.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on June 29, 2022, 11:31:14 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWcaUSwVsAEQhRN?format=jpg&name=small)
CNN Video (https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/06/28/ukraine-first-lady-olena-zelenska-relationship-sot-intv-amanpour-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn):
Quote
'Our relationship is on pause': Ukraine's first lady on coping with personal strain of war

CNN's Christiane Amanpour speaks with Olena Zelenska, Ukraine's first lady and wife of President Volodymyr Zelensky, about how like so many Ukrainian families, the Russian invasion has forced them to live apart for so long.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on June 29, 2022, 11:48:43 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWcaUSwVsAEQhRN?format=jpg&name=small)
CNN Video (https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/06/28/ukraine-first-lady-olena-zelenska-relationship-sot-intv-amanpour-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn):

Leave it to CNN to try to stir the pot.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 30, 2022, 01:32:18 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWcaUSwVsAEQhRN?format=jpg&name=small)
CNN Video (https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/06/28/ukraine-first-lady-olena-zelenska-relationship-sot-intv-amanpour-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn):

Sometimes spouses of politicians should just not say anything. I'm sure things are tough right now, but the men and women on the front lines fighting the invaders have it a whole lot worse.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on June 30, 2022, 08:15:36 am
Sometimes spouses of politicians should just not say anything. I'm sure things are tough right now, but the men and women on the front lines fighting the invaders have it a whole lot worse.
"On pause" doesn't mean she is changing channels. It's like Mrs. Joe and I did for decades, when I was out on a job. She ran the household, I went out to a well and made money.
Then we picked up when I got back. Well, except for the last time.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on June 30, 2022, 12:27:47 pm
Russian troops abandon Ukraine’s strategic Snake Island

By Emily Crane
June 30, 2022

Invading Russian troops were forced to flee the strategic Black Sea outpost of Snake Island on speedboats Thursday, in a major victory for Ukraine.

Snake Island, which Russia seized on the first day of its invasion, made international headlines after Ukrainian border guards stationed there told an invading Russian warship to “go f–k yourself.”

“KABOOM! No Russian troops on the Snake Island anymore. Our Armed Forces did a great job,” Andriy Yermak, head of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s office, tweeted.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/30/ukraine-claims-back-snake-island-after-russia-retreats/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 30, 2022, 05:15:49 pm
"On pause" doesn't mean she is changing channels. It's like Mrs. Joe and I did for decades, when I was out on a job. She ran the household, I went out to a well and made money.
Then we picked up when I got back. Well, except for the last time.

I understand what she was talking about, but my point was when others are dying it's best to not say anything or to make the point that any disruption to her life is nothing compared to the sacrifices of others. IOW, always put those that are paying the highest price first in any comments.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on June 30, 2022, 05:19:49 pm
Russian troops abandon Ukraine’s strategic Snake Island

By Emily Crane
June 30, 2022

Invading Russian troops were forced to flee the strategic Black Sea outpost of Snake Island on speedboats Thursday, in a major victory for Ukraine.

Snake Island, which Russia seized on the first day of its invasion, made international headlines after Ukrainian border guards stationed there told an invading Russian warship to “go f–k yourself.”

“KABOOM! No Russian troops on the Snake Island anymore. Our Armed Forces did a great job,” Andriy Yermak, head of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s office, tweeted.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/30/ukraine-claims-back-snake-island-after-russia-retreats/

Wow, I missed this. I believe one of the reasons Russia wanted Snake island was to establish air defense systems and anti-missile systems there.

Now if Brandon would let Ukraine attack the bridge connecting Crimea and Russia retaking Kherson becomes a better possibility.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 01, 2022, 06:20:45 am
Russian missile strikes on Odesa apartments and recreation centre kill 17, Ukraine says

Children among the dead and injured in twin missile attacks in the southern port city of Odesa early on Friday, say Ukrainian officials

Samantha Lock  |  1 Jul 2022 00.35 EDT

At least 17 people have been killed after two Russian missiles struck a multi-storey apartment building and a recreation centre in the southern port city of Odesa in the early hours of Friday, Ukrainian officials have said.

Ukraine’s armed forces issued an alert urging residents to seek shelter after three explosions and air raid alarms were heard just before 1am local time.

Odesa’s military spokesman, Sergei Bratchuk, added that an “enemy missile” had struck the southern port city in an update posted to his official Telegram channel just before 2am. “Unfortunately, there are casualties,” he added.

Bratchuk later said the missile attack was carried out by “strategic aircraft” from the direction of the Black Sea.

“One rocket hit a nine-storey residential building, the other – in a recreation centre in the Belgorod-Dniester region,” he said.  .  .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/01/russian-missile-strikes-on-odesa-apartments-and-recreation-centre-kill-17-ukraine-says
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 01, 2022, 07:40:34 pm
Retreat from Kyiv, a bridge too far in Donbas, and the sinking of the Moskva: Fleeing from Snake Island is just the latest in a long line of humiliating defeats for Russia's army in Ukraine

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
1 July 2022

A 'gesture of goodwill': That was how the Kremlin tried to play off its retreat from Ukraine's Snake Island on Thursday, after commanders gave up hope of holding the strategic spit of land under withering artillery fire.

It is the same phrase that Putin's lackeys used to try and cover up their ignominious retreat from Kyiv, Chernihiv and Sumy back in early April, as the first phase of their war in Ukraine spectacularly failed.

But those are far from the only battlefield blunders to have left Russia's red army red-faced: From an early defeat trying to take Hostomel airfield to failed river crossings in the Donbas and the sinking of flagship Moskva, there have been plenty of embarrassing moments for Putin and his commanders.

Here, MailOnline takes a look back at all the defeats that have shamed what was once considered to be the world's second-best military...

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10972775/Fleeing-Snake-Island-just-latest-defeat-Russia-Ukraine.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 01, 2022, 11:17:39 pm
Ukraine Has Exposed Russia as a Not-So-Great Power

The Atlantic by Phillips Payson O’Brien 7/1/2022

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/rethinking-russia-ukraine-international-political-power-military-strength/661452/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/07/rethinking-russia-ukraine-international-political-power-military-strength/661452/)

Kyiv’s success against Moscow forces us to reexamine our assumptions about what it means to be powerful.

In times of peace, much of what anyone says about national power is guesswork. Different claims can be based on hopes, prejudices, or even simple self-interest. Analysts and experts can speak confidently about how some states are undoubtedly great powers while others are weak, that some countries are led by strategic geniuses and others by corrupt incompetents. The statements can sound eminently plausible as facts, even be downright persuasive, because there is no way of knowing the truth.

Until, that is, a war breaks out. The Russia-Ukraine war is now cutting through much of the nonsense that dominated the discussion of international power politics, posing particular challenges to blasé assumptions about what makes a state powerful, and what makes a country’s leadership effective. This reassessment doesn’t just concern the question of debatable prewar military analysis of Russia and Ukraine, or theories of international relations. Instead, it is aimed at the whole way we think about how countries interact with one another, about national power, and about leadership.

The best place to start is the widespread notion going into the war that we were witnessing a clash between a great power controlled by an experienced, savvy—some even said brilliant—leader and a small state weakened by national division and led by a second-rate former comedian. This great power–small power dynamic was accepted practically universally among a group of scholars and analysts who have proclaimed themselves “realists.”

Maybe the most famous realist in the world is Henry Kissinger, the former U.S. secretary of state and a longtime believer in the notion of great leaders and great powers. Kissinger, who met regularly with Vladimir Putin, has been arguing for forcing Kyiv to make concessions such as the handing over of the Crimea, internationally recognized as part of Ukraine but annexed by Moscow in 2014, to the Russians. To Kissinger, it has been important that the United States treat Russia as a “great power” and that it accepted Moscow’s claim to have a special interest in Ukraine.

Academics, too, subscribe to this notion. In lectures, media appearances, and articles in the months before the invasion, well-known figures such as John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt described the Russia-Ukraine relationship as operating in the well-worn great power–small power framework. In this analysis, Putin was the clever strategist with a strong grasp on what he wanted, while the Ukrainians were weak, and it would be better for the world if their status was determined by the strong. Russia was, in Mearsheimer’s view, one of only “three great powers” in the world, and Putin was a rationalist, just wanting to secure a buffer state on his border, something Ukraine would have to deal with. Meanwhile, as Walt put it, Ukraine would have to accept the oppression and subjugation of its people to Russian interests because “great-power war is worse and brings much more suffering.” Other analysts, such as Samuel Charap, even believed that Russia was so strong, and would crush a weak Ukraine so easily, that the West should provide no support for Kyiv, because it would all be wasted when the Russian steamroller attacked.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 02, 2022, 12:21:05 am
Ukraine demands the seizure of Russian-flagged grain ship off Turkey

Ukraine has called for a ship carrying grain from a Russian-occupied part of the country to be seized.

The ship is currently lying off the Turkish coast.

We've monitored the Russian-flagged ship, the Zhibek Zholy, on its route from the Ukrainian port of Berdyansk to the Turkish port of Karasu.

It is not clear where its cargo came from or how it was obtained, but Russia has been accused of stealing grain from areas of Ukraine it controls - allegations Russia denies............

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62010113
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 02, 2022, 06:10:45 am
Ukraine Has Exposed Russia as a Not-So-Great Power

The Atlantic by Phillips Payson O’Brien 7/1/2022

Kyiv’s success against Moscow forces us to reexamine our assumptions about what it means to be powerful.

I guess this is an easier question than asking what Kabul's success forces us to reexamine. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 02, 2022, 03:00:19 pm
Still think Ukraine's about "freedom"??

"WH Tells Americans To Stomach High Gas Prices To Save ‘Liberal World Order’"  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1542712355368456192


Quote
Joe Biden: Drivers Must Pay More for Gas ‘As Long as It Takes’ to Stop Vladimir Putin
Breitbart, Jun 30, 2022

President Joe Biden said Thursday that American drivers should be prepared to pay more for gasoline until Russian President Vladimir was defeated in Ukraine.

“How long is it fair to expect American drivers and drivers around the world to pay a premium for this war?” one reporter from the New York Times asked the president during his press conference in Europe.

“As long as it takes, so Russia cannot in fact defeat Ukraine and move beyond Ukraine,” Biden said. “This is a critical, critical, position for the world.”

The president blamed high gas prices on Russia, despite his policy efforts to restrict oil and gas production in the United States.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8PpWXCtjjo&t=5111s&ab_channel=TheWhiteHouse
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 02, 2022, 04:47:07 pm
What does Slow Joe know about gas prices? He hasn't spent his own money on anything since he left college and entered politics.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 02, 2022, 05:32:08 pm
What does Slow Joe know about gas prices? He hasn't spent his own money on anything since he left college and entered politics.
Whaddya mean? Hunter was on the BOD of a Gas Company!

All he needs to know is what happened to his cut.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 02, 2022, 09:40:10 pm
Screengrab
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWrzlGKXoAACuj3?format=jpg&name=large)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 02, 2022, 10:02:23 pm
Screengrab
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWrzlGKXoAACuj3?format=jpg&name=large)

Only three announcements in that list have come after the $40 billion package was enacted, the first of which was already in the works before the bill became law.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 02, 2022, 10:04:44 pm
Quote
Joe Biden: Drivers Must Pay More for Gas ‘As Long as It Takes’ to Stop Vladimir Putin

If Biden wanted to stop Putin, he would do everything in his power to bring gas prices down.  Biden is both a liar and a fool.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 02, 2022, 10:28:03 pm

If Biden wanted to stop Putin, he would do everything in his power to bring gas prices down.  Biden is both a liar and a fool.
Biden 'believes' all the crap he is told by his handlers, the real power doing all of this. But he has no mental faculties to dispute anything. They tell him what to do and what to say and what to believe and he just does it, like a child. Biden has no idea what is going on around him. He is a blank robot doing whatever he is programmed to do by the people controlling him.

He doesn't even read what he signs. The people in charge of America today are the people who write his speeches and the people who load his teleprompter. Biden doesn't have a clue about anything.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 02, 2022, 11:17:50 pm
Whaddya mean? Hunter was on the BOD of a Gas Company!

All he needs to know is what happened to his cut.

@Smokin Joe

He knows he got "his" 10 percent,and that was all he cared about.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 03, 2022, 10:21:55 am
Joe Kent for WA-3
@joekent16jan19

Ladies & Gentlemen, I present to you,  the liberal world order -

Quote
NEXTA
@nexta_tv
 · Mar 20

Ukrainian media report that the wife of former MP Kotvytskyy tried to take $28 million and 1.3 million euros out of #Ukraine via #Zakarpattya.

The money was found by the #Hungarian border guards and forced to declare it.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOUXrz9XsAge_m8?format=jpg&name=medium)

8:14 AM · Jul 2, 2022  Twitter for iPhone
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 03, 2022, 01:25:18 pm
Joe Kent for WA-3
@joekent16jan19

Ladies & Gentlemen, I present to you,  the liberal world order -

8:14 AM · Jul 2, 2022  Twitter for iPhone

American tax dollars at work.  All thanks to the American Teal/Yellow badge brigade.   :thud:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 03, 2022, 04:29:23 pm
Russia claims to have captured last Ukrainian holdout city in Luhansk

By Mark Moore
July 3, 2022

Moscow claimed on Sunday to have captured ​the city of Lysychansk, the last remaining holdout in Ukraine’s Luhansk province, giving its forces control of the eastern Donbas region. 

​Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu​ informed President Vladimir Putin that Russian troops assisted by members of a separatist militia “have established full control over the city of Lysychansk,” ​the ministry said in a statement.

The fall of Lysychansk completes “the liberation of the Luhansk People’s Republic,” the statement said.

A spokesman for Ukraine’s defense ministry said the battle for Luhansk will continue, pointing out that “other large cities in the Donbas area, in particular in the Donetsk region” are still under control of Ukrainian forces.

“These are cities that for the last couple of days [have been] targets of severe missile attacks, artillery shelling​, but the battle for the Donbas is not over yet​,” Yuriy Sak told the BBC on Sunday.​

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/03/russia-claims-to-have-captured-ukrainian-holdout-city-in-luhansk/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 03, 2022, 05:33:27 pm
@Smokin Joe

He knows he got "his" 10 percent,and that was all he cared about.
Naturally. He is just another grifter.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 03, 2022, 05:40:45 pm
American tax dollars at work.

How so?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 03, 2022, 06:03:41 pm
How so?

$28M USD in just that heist alone.....   Think that U.S. currency was donated (underwritten?) by a benevolent friend?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 03, 2022, 06:37:29 pm
$28M USD in just that heist alone.....   Think that U.S. currency was donated (underwritten?) by a benevolent friend?

Again, how is this US tax dollars at work?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 03, 2022, 06:52:59 pm
Again, how is this US tax dollars at work?

Sorry....

I guess this $28M USD appeared out of thin air...... :cool:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 03, 2022, 06:59:53 pm
Sorry....

I guess this $28M USD appeared out of thin air...... :cool:

For the third time, how is this US tax dollars at work?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 03, 2022, 07:29:12 pm
For the third time, how is this US tax dollars at work?

And for the 3rd time, I am trying my best not to call you naive.

You are a good guy otherwise.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 03, 2022, 07:33:19 pm
And for the 3rd time, I am trying my best not to call you naive.

You are a good guy otherwise.

So you are making a claim with zero evidence?  Perhaps you are the naive one here.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 03, 2022, 07:39:17 pm
So you are making a claim with zero evidence?  Perhaps you are the naive one here.

Okay, provide me a plausible source of $USD funds.  From a fleeing politico no less.......

Who beside the US Government would be able to move that volume of (cough cough) $USD?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 03, 2022, 08:03:15 pm
Okay, provide me a plausible source of $USD funds.

That's not how it works.  You are the one making the claim here, not me.  And it is clearly a claim that you cannot back up.


From a fleeing politico no less.......

Who beside the US Government would be able to move that volume of (cough cough) $USD?

Going out on a limb for a moment by assuming this story is true (with zero evidence), and considering that Kotvytsky has been a businessman in Ukraine for quite some time, it would be highly probable that his business profits could be the source of this alleged (and unproven) discovery.

Now the facts.  His wife Anastasia Kotvitskaya was eight month pregnant at the time.  Yet in the photos accompanying this story, she shows no sign of pregnancy.  How did she pull that one off?  Also, she is caught violating Hungarian law, yet the Hungarian government gives her a do-over, allows her to declare the money before giving it all back to her?  Yeah, right.  And lastly, there is zero follow-up.  Not a single mention of this since this story 'broke' over three months ago.

So where does that leave us?  Not only can you not prove that US taxpayer dollars were involved, you can't even prove that this even happened.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 03, 2022, 08:22:42 pm
That's not how it works.  You are the one making the claim here, not me.  And it is clearly a claim that you cannot back up.


Going out on a limb for a moment by assuming this story is true (with zero evidence), and considering that Kotvytsky has been a businessman in Ukraine for quite some time, it would be highly probable that his business profits could be the source of this alleged (and unproven) discovery.

Now the facts.  His wife Anastasia Kotvitskaya was eight month pregnant at the time.  Yet in the photos accompanying this story, she shows no sign of pregnancy.  How did she pull that one off?  Also, she is caught violating Hungarian law, yet the Hungarian government gives her a do-over, allows her to declare the money before giving it all back to her?  Yeah, right.  And lastly, there is zero follow-up.  Not a single mention of this since this story 'broke' over three months ago.

So where does that leave us?  Not only can you not prove that US taxpayer dollars were involved, you can't even prove that this even happened.

lol....I love your explanation and tales of rainbows and unicorns pooping skittles.  All I see is a Ukranian (3 month or not) businessman/politico fleeing to  Hungary with $28M USD (95% of the booty vs.Euros), in a (cough cough) during a truly coincidental timeframe (cough cough again) where the U.S. was flooding Ukraine with aid with uuuhhhh what?......  US Dollars.

Proof? He is a political criminal.  Politicos are infamous for being able to decouple the dots.

What is most strange about these threads outside your naivety, is your strange fixation of defending the Ukranian political stucture and its band of thieves.  Maybe you can provide insight of your strange motives for these op-eds when the smoke finally clears, but till then?..... :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 03, 2022, 08:47:50 pm
So you still have zero evidence that US tax dollars were involved in an alleged unproven event.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 03, 2022, 08:58:44 pm
So you still have zero evidence that US tax dollars were involved in an alleged unproven event.

And the Ukranian politcal machine is pure as snow based on your continuous line of non-sequiturs. In your pro-Ukranian politico realm...  there are never any dots to connect.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 03, 2022, 09:06:05 pm
And the Ukranian politcal machine is pure as snow based on your continuous line of non-sequiturs.

Nope.  Never made that claim.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 03, 2022, 10:35:17 pm
I wonder which CRISIS Joe continues to feed is costing us more, the one at our border or the one in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 04, 2022, 01:49:44 am
So you still have zero evidence that US tax dollars were involved in an alleged unproven event.

@Hoodat

Just out of curiosity,just where do YOU think all those crisp,new 100 dollar bills came from?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 04, 2022, 03:56:35 am
@Hoodat

Just out of curiosity,just where do YOU think all those crisp,new 100 dollar bills came from?

@sneakypete

Don't you think we should first find out what they represent?  Someone took a photo of suitcases full of money, and then posted it along side a picture of Kotvytskyy's non-pregnant wife - the same wife who allegedly gave birth a couple of weeks after this story was posted.  The story would have more credibility if there was a single follow-up story to this posted anywhere.  Maybe a story where the Hungarian government levied a fine for violating customs laws.  Or where his wife was living large on the South coast of France.  But no such story exists.  Only this one uncorroborated hit piece from three months ago.

But for the sake of argument, if this story was legit, then I would assume he siphoned the money off his business or was involved in some corrupt business dealings.  And anyone moving large quantities of cash is going to use $100 bills.

By the way, $28 million in $100 bills would weigh over 600 pounds.  That's a heck of a lot of weight for a woman who is eight months pregnant to schlep across the border.  Even a skunk can smell bullshit here.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 04, 2022, 04:55:08 am
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

In another strategic victory for Ukraine, Russia has seized the entire Luhansk province

10:17 AM · Jul 3, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 04, 2022, 07:29:22 am
@sneakypete

Quote
Don't you think we should first find out what they represent? 

@Hoodat

Money always represents power and wealth.



Quote
Someone took a photo of suitcases full of money, and then posted it along side a picture of Kotvytskyy's non-pregnant wife - the same wife who allegedly gave birth a couple of weeks after this story was posted.  The story would have more credibility if there was a single follow-up story to this posted anywhere.  Maybe a story where the Hungarian government levied a fine for violating customs laws.  Or where his wife was living large on the South coast of France.  But no such story exists.  Only this one uncorroborated hit piece from three months ago.

I agree. It just doesn't add up.


 

Quote
By the way, $28 million in $100 bills would weigh over 600 pounds.  That's a heck of a lot of weight for a woman who is eight months pregnant to schlep across the border. 

I agree,but AFAIK,no one is claiming SHE was actually carrying the suitcases around herself. You just don't see wealthy women even carrying a suitcase with clothes in it. That is what minions are for.

Quote
Even a skunk can smell bullshit here.

There does seem to be a lot of it that is questionable.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 04, 2022, 05:38:44 pm
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

In another strategic victory for Ukraine, Russia has seized the entire Luhansk province

10:17 AM · Jul 3, 2022·Twitter Web App

Quite a transition in the rhetoric here.  Russia is now considered an invader and conqueror.  Quite a contrast with that 'Putin is a liberator and protector' bullshit we've been fed since February.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 04, 2022, 08:15:35 pm
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

In another strategic victory for Ukraine, Russia has seized the entire Luhansk province

10:17 AM · Jul 3, 2022·Twitter Web App

@Right_in_Virginia

Somebody PLEASE tell me I am not the only one confused by that sentence.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 05, 2022, 02:46:51 am
Turkey detains Russian-flagged grain ship from Ukraine

BBC News  |  1 day ago


A cargo ship carrying grain from a Russian-occupied region of Ukraine has been detained by Turkish customs authorities, according to Ukraine's ambassador to Turkey.[/b]

Vasyl Bodnar says "We have full co-operation. The ship is currently standing at the entrance to the port, it has been detained by the customs authorities of Turkey".

We've tracked the Russian-flagged ship, the Zhibek Zholy, on its route from the Ukrainian port of Berdyansk, to Karasu on the Turkish Black Sea coast.

It is not clear where its cargo came from or how it was obtained, but Russia has been accused of stealing grain from areas of Ukraine it controls - allegations Russia denies.  .  .

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/6CCC/production/_125725872_zhibek_zholy_ship-2x-nc.png)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62010113
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 05, 2022, 04:43:11 am
Quite a transition in the rhetoric here.  Russia is now considered an invader and conqueror.  Quite a contrast with that 'Putin is a liberator and protector' bullshit we've been fed since February.

No, @Hoodat   Michael Tracey is ridiculing the usual, disingenuous coverage of Ukraine's military defeats ----- which is more commoplace than even previously thought   :laugh:

Quote
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

In another strategic victory for Ukraine, Russia has seized the entire Luhansk province

10:17 AM · Jul 3, 2022·Twitter Web App

cc:  @sneakypete



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 05, 2022, 06:27:42 am
I'm having difficulty reconciling the term 'liberated' with the term 'seized'.  The two do not describe the same thing.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 05, 2022, 01:03:04 pm
(https://i.imgflip.com/6kkzz3.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 05, 2022, 01:04:31 pm

 Russia has seized the entire Luhansk province

cc:  @sneakypete

@Right_in_Virginia

And it only took them how many months to do this?

And how many Russian soldiers,Russian Generals,Russian tanks,and Russia ships did it cost them to accomplish this great feat?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 05, 2022, 01:17:24 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

And it only took them how many months to do this?

And how many Russian soldiers,Russian Generals,Russian tanks,and Russia ships did it cost them to accomplish this great feat?

It's the Revenge of Pyrrhus.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 05, 2022, 01:20:59 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

And it only took them how many months to do this?

And how many Russian soldiers,Russian Generals,Russian tanks,and Russia ships did it cost them to accomplish this great feat?

Not the point @sneakypete   Not even close to it.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 05, 2022, 01:25:16 pm
Russian journalist is locked up in Siberian psychiatric hospital after posting ‘sane people are for peace in Ukraine’

By WILL STEWART FOR MAILONLINE
4 July 2022

A Russian journalist accused of posting 'sane people are for peace' about Vladimir Putin’s war in Ukraine has been locked in a Siberian clinical psychiatric hospital.

Maria Ponomarenko, a 44-year-old mother of two, claims the authorities are seeking to gag her because of her opposition to the war.

She is accused of spreading 'fake' news concerning Putin’s 'special military operation' in Ukraine.

One comment seen as against the law by prosecutors said: 'It is impossible to remain silent, knowing about the death of thousands of innocent people.'

Her 'fake' Telegram posts also included critical comments about the Russian bombing of a drama theatre in Mariupol in April where hundreds of civilians were sheltering.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10980677/Russian-journalist-locked-psychiatric-hospital-posting-sane-people-peace.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 05, 2022, 01:25:43 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

And it only took them how many months to do this?

And how many Russian soldiers, Russian Generals, Russian tanks, and Russia ships did it cost them to accomplish this great feat?

And then there's the question of holding on to it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 05, 2022, 01:37:52 pm
And then there's the question of holding on to it.

Holding onto it?  Nonsense.  Putin is a "liberator" and a "protector".  'Seizing' and 'Holding' are not part of his MO.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 05, 2022, 01:39:41 pm
Holding onto it?  Nonsense.  Putin is a "liberator" and a "protector".  'Seizing' and 'Holding' are not part of his MO.


Ahh.  My bad.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 05, 2022, 02:10:41 pm
thebradfordfile
@thebradfordfile

We should be electing people to congress who are more interested in saving their own country than laundering billions in Ukraine.

5:11 PM · Jul 4, 2022·TweetDeck
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 05, 2022, 02:28:14 pm
thebradfordfile
@thebradfordfile

We should be electing people to congress who are more interested in saving their own country than laundering billions in Ukraine.

See Logical Fallacies:  Red Herring (https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/search)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 05, 2022, 03:54:45 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

And it only took them how many months to do this?

And how many Russian soldiers,Russian Generals,Russian tanks,and Russia ships did it cost them to accomplish this great feat?

Not enough!

Russia is the evil invader in this war. In the long term the only answer is to push them out of Ukraine. Anything less and you are inviting further aggression in the future. The Ukrainians are paying a terrible price trying to preserve their sovereignty but to their credit they have shown no willingness to quit. As long as they are willing to fight it's in our best interest to give them the weapons to do so.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 05, 2022, 03:59:57 pm
thebradfordfile
@thebradfordfile

We should be electing people to congress who are more interested in saving their own country than laundering billions in Ukraine.

5:11 PM · Jul 4, 2022·TweetDeck

Amen!!!  I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 05, 2022, 05:57:00 pm
Market hit as Russians shell frontline city Slovyansk

1 hour ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/16B28/production/_125786929_slovfirefbooklyakh5jul22.jpg)
The Slovyansk mayor posted this photo of the market blaze

Russian shelling has set fire to the central market in Ukraine's eastern city of Slovyansk, killing one person and injuring seven, the mayor says.

Vadym Lyakh says the city is being hit by Russian artillery salvoes from closer positions, as it becomes the conflict's latest frontline.

He posted photos of the blaze on Facebook, describing massive shelling, and urging people to stay in shelters.

Russia is seeking to control all of the eastern industrial Donbas area.

The area comprises the regions of Luhansk and Donetsk, and President Vladimir Putin claims it to be part of Russia.

On Monday, Ukraine's military says it had to pull out of Lysychansk, its last remaining stronghold in Luhansk, under intense Russian fire.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62051585
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 05, 2022, 05:58:30 pm
The Ukrainians are paying a terrible price trying to preserve their sovereignty but to their credit they have shown no willingness to quit. As long as they are willing to fight it's in our best interest to give them the weapons to do so.

Correctamundo!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 05, 2022, 07:16:36 pm
Not enough!

Russia is the evil invader in this war. In the long term the only answer is to push them out of Ukraine. Anything less and you are inviting further aggression in the future. The Ukrainians are paying a terrible price trying to preserve their sovereignty but to their credit they have shown no willingness to quit. As long as they are willing to fight it's in our best interest to give them the weapons to do so.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 05, 2022, 07:28:09 pm
Not the point @sneakypete   Not even close to it.   :shrug:

@Right_in_Virginia

May not be "the point",but it IS "the facts".

BUT.....why don't you fill me in on what the point is?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 06, 2022, 04:53:40 am
@Right_in_Virginia

May not be "the point",but it IS "the facts".

BUT.....why don't you fill me in on what the point is?

I did, Pete.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 06, 2022, 06:27:11 am
I did, Pete.

Can you direct me to the post where you made that point?  I would like to see it for myself.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 06, 2022, 03:51:47 pm
The Russian woman rescued from a Kyiv bomb site

16 hours ago


A Russian-Ukrainian family has been irrevocably split by the war in Ukraine after Russian-born Ekaterina Volkova was injured in an air strike and her Ukrainian husband killed in the same attack.

This was the second time Russia had dropped a missile on their apartment building. In late April, a Radio Liberty journalist was killed in the same building.

Ukrainian authorities said the incident showed Russia’s indiscriminate bombing was even targeting their own citizens.

The BBC’s Anastassiya Zlatopolskai has tracked down the family in Kyiv who say the attack was unforgivable.

Video:  https://www.bbc.com/news/av-embeds/62044014

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-62044014
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 08, 2022, 03:40:10 am
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1543689118814797825
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 08, 2022, 03:43:48 am
YouTube Blocked in Ukraine's Russian-Occupied Kherson

July 6, 2022


Russian-installed authorities claim to have blocked access to YouTube and Instagram in southern Ukraine’s occupied Kherson region.

“We shut down YouTube a few days ago,” Sergei Moroz, a video blogger and spokesperson for the local occupation administration, said in a video message posted on Telegram Wednesday.

“We’re now without YouTube or Instagram. But it’s OK, we get by alright,” Moroz said. He also admitted that locals could use VPNs to circumvent censorship.

The same clip also appeared on a YouTube channel bearing Moroz’s name alongside his previous vlogs.

The announcement confirms Ukrainian reports earlier this week that YouTube had been blocked in the region alongside messaging app Viber.  .  .

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/07/06/youtube-blocked-in-russia-occupied-kherson-a78220
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 08, 2022, 12:02:29 pm
https://twitter.com/OlegNikolenko_/status/1545343909991223296
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 08, 2022, 12:12:20 pm
https://twitter.com/OlegNikolenko_/status/1545343909991223296

Ahh, those daring Russians!  They're just liberating that grain, dontchaknow.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 08, 2022, 02:51:49 pm
Ned Ryun
@nedryun

And here you thought that $40 billion was going to fund a corrupt Eastern European nation’s “defense.” Haha! The morons who voted to send over our hard earned tax dollars for this need to be run out of office

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXJMnopXEAApX-s?format=jpg&name=large)

8:18 AM · Jul 8, 2022   Twitter for iPhone

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 08, 2022, 02:56:04 pm
The world has lost a much needed voice of reason and courage.  May he RIP.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52202474065_7d1324d9c5_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 08, 2022, 04:18:17 pm
The world has lost a much needed voice of reason and courage.  May he RIP.

Here's what Abe actually said in context:

Quote
The Economist: You met with Vladimir Putin some 27 times. What advice would you offer on dealing with Putin now?

Abe Shinzo: I don’t think there are many options left in this situation. There are lots of ways to analyse Putin’s character, but I think he is someone who believes in power and is a realist at the same time. He is not the type of person who pursues ideals, or makes sacrifices for ideas.

Before the invasion, when they had surrounded Ukraine, it might have been possible [to avoid war]. If [Ukrainian president Volodymyr] Zelensky could have been made to promise that his country will not join nato, or made to grant a high degree of autonomy to the two enclaves in the east. I understand this would be hard to do—perhaps an American leader could have done it. But of course [Zelensky] would refuse.

However, now that we are here, I think the only way forward is to stand with Ukraine and thoroughly oppose Russia’s aggression.[ That is the way to protect the international order that we have created since the end of World War II.

https://www.economist.com/AbeInterview
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 08, 2022, 06:21:58 pm
Election Wizard 🇺🇸
@ElectionWiz
BREAKING: US has approved a $400 million security package for Ukraine, per a senior defense official:

• 4 additional HIMARS + ammo
• 3 tactical vehicles
• 1000 precision 155mm artillery rds
• Counter-battery systems, demo munitions, and spare parts
1:36 PM · Jul 8, 2022·
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 08, 2022, 06:23:08 pm
Here's what Abe actually said in context:


:thumbsup:

Taking a partial quote out of context is one of the last refuges of a scoundrel.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 08, 2022, 08:02:37 pm
Election Wizard 🇺🇸
@ElectionWiz
BREAKING: US has approved a $400 million security package for Ukraine, per a senior defense official:

• 4 additional HIMARS + ammo
• 3 tactical vehicles
• 1000 precision 155mm artillery rds
• Counter-battery systems, demo munitions, and spare parts
1:36 PM · Jul 8, 2022·

So when does this blank check for Zellenski end?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 08, 2022, 08:20:32 pm
So when does this blank check for Zellenski end?
As Shari Lewis sang, "This is the song that never ends. It just goes on and on, my friend ..."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 08, 2022, 09:49:17 pm
So when does this blank check for Zellenski end?

When aging cold war veterans finally stand down.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 08, 2022, 09:50:23 pm
When aging cold war veterans finally stand down.

Putin is showing no sign of that.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 08, 2022, 09:55:18 pm
(https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/d39b4732-981e-4782-b2fc-c6aa91856682.JPG)
First time for Blumenthal in a war zone, I understand.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 08, 2022, 09:57:23 pm
(https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/d39b4732-981e-4782-b2fc-c6aa91856682.JPG)
First time for Blumenthal in a war zone, I understand.

Well played.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 08, 2022, 09:58:58 pm
So when does this blank check for Zellenski end?

My question exactly?  It all depends on who's pockets are getting lined.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 08, 2022, 10:05:01 pm
I'd be asking where the $40 billion is going since the Ukraine military is receiving only a very small fraction of it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 08, 2022, 10:57:51 pm
Tim Young
@TimRunsHisMouth

Just a reminder that we've sent more than 15x the amount of money Trump asked for to complete our border wall to the Ukraine to defend their border.

1:11 PM · Jul 8, 2022·Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 08, 2022, 10:58:43 pm
(https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/d39b4732-981e-4782-b2fc-c6aa91856682.JPG)
First time for Blumenthal in a war zone, I understand.

Top notch.   88devil
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 08, 2022, 11:03:36 pm
Moscow politician gets 7 years for denouncing war

Paul Kirby - BBC  |  9 hours ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/1223F/production/_125830347_gorinov.jpg)
Gorinov held up a note in court stating: "Do you still need this war?"

A Moscow councillor has been jailed for seven years for speaking out against Russia's war in Ukraine - in what is said to be the first full jail term under new laws targeting dissent.

Alexei Gorinov, 60, was arrested in April after he was filmed criticising the invasion in a city council meeting.

Under the post-invasion law, anyone who spreads "fake news" about the military faces up to 15 years in jail.

Russians are banned from using the word war to describe the invasion.

President Vladimir Putin has instead coined the phrase "special military operation", although he spoke of the "war in the Donbas" in remarks to parliamentary leaders on Thursday.

Human rights activist Pavel Chikov said Gorinov's sentence was the first jail term under the new law.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62092196
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 08, 2022, 11:23:02 pm
So when does this blank check for Zellenski end?
More to the point, promised, approved, earmarked, etc. are not DELIVERED, where that equipment can make a difference.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 09, 2022, 12:36:41 am
More to the point, promised, approved, earmarked, etc. are not DELIVERED, where that equipment can make a difference.

Hate to tell you, but we are $31T in debt.  Why can't less debt laden countries in the EU fill the bill?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 09, 2022, 12:39:01 am
https://twitter.com/olex_scherba/status/1543689118814797825

If nothing else you sure don't see anyone complaining!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 09, 2022, 12:43:47 am
Election Wizard 🇺🇸
@ElectionWiz
BREAKING: US has approved a $400 million security package for Ukraine, per a senior defense official:

• 4 additional HIMARS + ammo
• 3 tactical vehicles
• 1000 precision 155mm artillery rds
• Counter-battery systems, demo munitions, and spare parts
1:36 PM · Jul 8, 2022·

I much rather see these shipments than money, unless the money is being used to buy additional weapons from Poland or other Eastern European countries.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 09, 2022, 12:46:09 am
So when does this blank check for Zellenski end?

In this case they are quoting the value of the weaponry being sent.

I have no problem giving weapons to Ukraine to kill the Russians. The sooner Russia collapses the better it is for the world.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 09, 2022, 12:54:01 am
In this case they are quoting the value of the weaponry being sent.

I have no problem giving weapons to Ukraine to kill the Russians. The sooner Russia collapses the better it is for the world.

I fully agree, I'd like to see Russia and Putin die.  Just why won't EU nations better off than us economically foot the bill. 

Again, I might sound like a  broken record, but we are $31T in debt., and approaching 130% debt to GDP ratio  Botton line Bilo...  We are broke.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 09, 2022, 12:54:11 am
I'd be asking where the $40 billion is going since the Ukraine military is receiving only a very small fraction of it.

 :amen:

Rand Paul had it right about appointing an inspector general to oversee where the money goes. The cause is just, but misuse of money only opens up the opportunity for those that seek surrender to the tyrant to claim otherwise.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 09, 2022, 01:05:40 am
I fully agree, I'd like to see Russia and Putin die.  Just why won't EU nations better off than us economically foot the bill. 

Again, I might sound like a  broken record, but we are $31T in debt., and approaching 130% debt to GDP ratio  Botton line Bilo...  We are broke.

We've been broke for a long time. The debt is not going to be paid off, it might be monetized if inflation runs long enough. Once the Fed started quantitative easing the monetary system was locked into a downward spiral. I don't think it will be in my lifetime, but at some point in the future a new currency will be created and all those holding govt. treasuries will be out of luck.

As long as Ukraine is willing to do the fighting I'm all for giving them the tools to do it. Among the positives of Ukraine defeating Russia are Russia's collapse. Once Russia falls we have no need for NATO. I would happily see us end that organization and bring our soldiers home. Our future is to the North and South. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 09, 2022, 03:58:33 am
We've been broke for a long time. The debt is not going to be paid off, it might be monetized if inflation runs long enough. Once the Fed started quantitative easing the monetary system was locked into a downward spiral. I don't think it will be in my lifetime, but at some point in the future a new currency will be created and all those holding govt. treasuries will be out of luck.

As long as Ukraine is willing to do the fighting I'm all for giving them the tools to do it. Among the positives of Ukraine defeating Russia are Russia's collapse. Once Russia falls we have no need for NATO. I would happily see us end that organization and bring our soldiers home. Our future is to the North and South.

It'll be quicker than you realize.  And to the fact we are already broke, i  see not sane reason to accelerate our demise.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 03:36:25 pm
Putin loses his 60th colonel in Ukraine: Paratrooper is buried with full military honours as he becomes latest high-ranking officer to die in conflict

By WILL STEWART FOR THE MAILONLINE
9 July 2022

Vladimir Putin has lost at least 60 colonels in the war in Ukraine, it was revealed today.

Lieutenant Colonel Sergei Moskvichev, 45, was buried with full military honours.

A paratrooper, it took Russia three months to retrieve his body from the war zone and conduct his funeral, it was revealed.

He was the 60th known colonel to have died in the bloody war, which has seen a crushing toll of high-ranking officers in Putin's forces, including at least 11 generals.

The revelation of his death came as Putin declared he had hardly begun his military campaign in Ukraine.

'We haven't started anything yet in earnest,' he claimed, despite suffering an overall toll of more than 30,000 troops, according to estimates.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10997521/Putin-loses-60th-colonel-Ukraine-Paratrooper-buried-honours-latest-senior-officer-die.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 03:37:54 pm
Putin enlists convicted murderers and jailed ex-military spies for war in Ukraine as Russia steps up prison recruitment in desperate bid to bolster frontline forces

By WILL STEWART
9 July 2022

Vladimir Putin is enlisting convicted murderers and jailed spies to fight on the front line in his war in Ukraine, it has been revealed.

Russia is recruiting from prisons in a number of regions across the country.

Among those recruited are jailed ex-military intelligence agents and other former special forces members with previous military service.

Earlier in the war, prisoners serving sentences for the most serious crimes were rejected from the Russian military, but there are now reports that murderers are being recruited as Putin looks for more frontline soldiers.

In some jails, hundreds of inmates are said to be ready to enlist on the promise that they will be granted an amnesty.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10997513/Putin-enlists-convicted-murderers-jailed-ex-military-spies-war-Ukraine.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 09, 2022, 03:49:31 pm
Vladimir Putin is enlisting convicted murderers and jailed spies to fight on the front line in his war in Ukraine, it has been revealed.
I think we already saw this movie.
(http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org.uk/files/styles/full/public/image/dirty-dozen-the-1967-001-jim-brown-telly-savalas-john-cassavettes-donald-sutherland-black-white.jpg?itok=knhXlRVf)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 09, 2022, 03:57:26 pm
(https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1312.5,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/110/669/284/original/8863b13a39de0553.png)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 09, 2022, 04:34:08 pm
UN says Ukraine bears share of blame for nursing home attack
The Hill, Jul 9, 2022, Associated Press

WASHINGTON (AP) — Two weeks after Russia launched its invasion of Ukraine in February, Kremlin-backed rebels assaulted a nursing home in the eastern region of Luhansk. Dozens of elderly and disabled patients, many of them bedridden, were trapped inside without water or electricity.

The March 11 assault set off a fire that spread throughout the facility, suffocating people who couldn’t move. A small number of patients and staff escaped and fled into a nearby forest, finally getting assistance after walking for 5 kilometers (3 miles).

In a war awash in atrocities, the attack on the nursing home near the village of Stara Krasnyanka stood out for its cruelty. Ukrainian authorities placed the fault squarely on Russian forces, accusing them of killing more than 50 vulnerable civilians in a brutal and unprovoked attack.

But a new U.N. report has found that Ukraine’s armed forces bear a large, and perhaps equal, share of the blame for what happened in Stara Krasnyanka, which is about 580 kilometers (360 miles) southeast of Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine. A few days before the attack, Ukrainian soldiers took up positions inside the nursing home, effectively making the building a target.

The report by the U.N.’s Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights doesn’t conclude the Ukrainian soldiers or the Moscow-backed separatist fighters committed a war crime. But it said the battle at the Stara Krasnyanka nursing home is emblematic of the human rights office’s concerns over the potential use of “human shields” to prevent military operations in certain areas.


https://thehill.com/homenews/ap/ap-politics/un-says-ukraine-bears-share-of-blame-for-nursing-home-attack/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 04:45:29 pm
The UN?  Really?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 09, 2022, 04:50:03 pm
I think we already saw this movie.
(http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org.uk/files/styles/full/public/image/dirty-dozen-the-1967-001-jim-brown-telly-savalas-john-cassavettes-donald-sutherland-black-white.jpg?itok=knhXlRVf)

 88devil
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 04:55:42 pm
I think we already saw this movie.
(http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org.uk/files/styles/full/public/image/dirty-dozen-the-1967-001-jim-brown-telly-savalas-john-cassavettes-donald-sutherland-black-white.jpg?itok=knhXlRVf)

Yeah, that was fiction, this is reality.  It ain't a movie.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 09, 2022, 05:15:18 pm
(https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=1312.5,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/110/669/284/original/8863b13a39de0553.png)

 9999hair out0000  Stop the absurd and continuous flow of money to the Ukraine ad secure OUR darn border instead!!!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 06:37:06 pm
Again, I might sound like a  broken record, but we are $31T in debt., and approaching 130% debt to GDP ratio  Botton line Bilo...  We are broke.

I agree wholeheartedly.  But I think it is disingenuous to highlight $1 billion in weapons to Ukraine while completely ignoring $39 billion in government graft.  Our government has no intention of ending its massive debt acceleration.  We would be better served to fight against the $39 billion in graft instead of the $1 billion which actually generates a nice ROI in the form of destroyed Russian military capacity.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 06:41:58 pm
9999hair out0000  Stop the absurd and continuous flow of money to the Ukraine ad secure OUR darn border instead!!!

The claim in the Tweet is not accurate.  We have not sent more money to Ukraine to secure their border than the amount Trump asked for to secure our own.  Our government is spending billions in the name of Ukraine.  But a pittance of that goes towards Ukraine border security.  Why not go after the 99% instead of complaining about the 1%?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 06:42:54 pm
I think we already saw this movie.
(http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org.uk/files/styles/full/public/image/dirty-dozen-the-1967-001-jim-brown-telly-savalas-john-cassavettes-donald-sutherland-black-white.jpg)

You are on a roll.  Kudos.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 09, 2022, 06:50:16 pm
The claim in the Tweet is not accurate.  We have not sent more money to Ukraine to secure their border than the amount Trump asked for to secure our own.  Our government is spending billions in the name of Ukraine.  But a pittance of that goes towards Ukraine border security.  Why not go after the 99% instead of complaining about the 1%?
OK? So what? If they had given Trump the money to "secure America" instead of Ukraine, the grift would still exist. Trump knew that. So, do we want to spend the grift in Ukraine? Or do we want to spend the grift and the gain in America? Your answer is empty and void.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 06:53:32 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXOZDV9WAAEes5d?format=jpg&name=small)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXOZDqvXkAA7tOM?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 06:54:57 pm
OK? So what? If they had given Trump the money to "secure America" instead of Ukraine, the grift would still exist. Trump knew that. So, do we want to spend the grift in Ukraine? Or do we want to spend the grift and the gain in America? Your answer is empty and void.

The "grift" isn't being spent in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 06:55:50 pm
OK? So what? If they had given Trump the money to "secure America" instead of Ukraine, the grift would still exist. Trump knew that. So, do we want to spend the grift in Ukraine? Or do we want to spend the grift and the gain in America? Your answer is empty and void.

<sigh>

Again for the umpteenth time, the grift isn't being spent in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 09, 2022, 07:05:28 pm
<sigh>

Again for the umpteenth time, the grift isn't being spent in Ukraine.
Well of course! And the American grift wouldn't be spent on the wall. Trump knew that. Which is why he asked for 10X the amount actually needed. The point is the remaining amount after the politicians steal their cut. I am asking, do you want the remaining amount after the thieving politicians raid it to go to America or to Ukraine? Since the same one/tenth scale will apply to the wall or to Ukraine, I prefer American border security get the leftovers. Something is better than nothing.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 07:05:30 pm
Stalin also did this in 1941.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FXOPvJfXkAANPxK?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 07:14:10 pm
Well of course! And the American grift wouldn't be spent on the wall. Trump knew that. Which is why he asked for 10X the amount actually needed. The point is the remaining amount after the politicians steal their cut. I am asking, do you want the remaining amount after the thieving politicians raid it to go to America or to Ukraine? Since the same one/tenth scale will apply to the wall or to Ukraine, I prefer American border security get the leftovers. Something is better than nothing.

It's obviously going to Americans, exactly the same place it would be going if it were grift on the wall, or any other federal government project.  10% to the Big Guy.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 07:17:08 pm
I am asking, do you want the remaining amount after the thieving politicians raid it to go to America or to Ukraine?

What I want is for people who are upset about the graft to speak out against the graft.  Instead, I see people tacitly accept the graft while arguing about where the remaining 1% goes.


Since the same one/tenth scale will apply to the wall or to Ukraine

Uh, no.  The scale of the two are not comparable.  Trump's border wall money would not have been handed over to the State Department, HHS, DoD, or USAID.  It would have been earmarked for property acquisition and wall construction.


I prefer American border security get the leftovers.

I prefer American border security get the graft.  I'm not willing to accept a $8.7 billion payout to the State Department while the Ukraine military is left wanting for weaponry promised months ago.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 09, 2022, 07:51:46 pm
AMERICA FIRST. We need to secure our own borders period. This shouldn't even be an issue still, but it is.  Shameful.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 08:12:07 pm
AMERICA FIRST. We need to secure our own borders period. This shouldn't even be an issue still, but it is.  Shameful.

Well, why don't you mosey on up to D.C. and suggest to the president that he do so.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 08:12:55 pm
AMERICA FIRST. We need to secure our own borders period. This shouldn't even be an issue still, but it is.  Shameful.

See Logical Fallacies:  False Dilemma
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 08:13:19 pm
See Logical Fallacies:  False Dilemma

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 09, 2022, 08:22:25 pm
Well, why don't you mosey on up to D.C. and suggest to the president that he do so.

Why don't you mosey on down to the border and take a gander and then report back!  Be sure to make an appointment with border patrol so that they can give you a first hand tour.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 09, 2022, 08:23:33 pm
See Logical Fallacies:  False Dilemma

Seriously?   *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 08:26:36 pm
Why don't you mosey on down to the border and take a gander and then report back!  Be sure to make an appointment with border patrol so that they can give you a first hand tour.

First, there is nobody here who thinks that the Southern Border is not a disaster and that something should be done about it, but the only person who can effectively do something about it is Biden, who has chosen not to do anything about it.

Accordingly, your complaints should be addressed to him, not to anyone here.

Secondly, as @Hoodat so kindly points out, you are persistently engaging in the logical fallacy of ginning up a false dilemma.  It is not a choice of either/or, both need to be addressed, and you have gone beyond the point of charity with your fixation on that false dilemma.

So, no, you can mosey on up to the White House and address your false dilemma to the person who could do something about it, and stop pretending that you are so much more moral than everyone else here who doesn't see things exactly the same way you do.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 09, 2022, 08:37:54 pm
Quote
It is not a choice of either/or, both need to be addressed ...
That may be the question. Why is Ukraine solely up to the USA to "address"?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 08:39:58 pm
That may be the question. Why is Ukraine solely up to the USA to "address"?

Nobody said it was "solely" up to the U.S. to address, but the fact that others may be myopic doesn't justify the U.S. plucking its own eyes and refusing to see what is plainly before it.

And the Poles might be a little annoyed with such a parochial view over who's doing what regarding Russia right now.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 09, 2022, 08:43:31 pm
I live in America. America is my first concern. I don't give a single solitary SHIT about Ukraine. Sure it is bad. Sure it is a shame. But why is it MY problem!? Let Europe sort it out. Why is America (halfway across the globe) flying in with Trillions of our dollars to save Ukraine while deliberately and intentionally ignoring America and American interests. F**K Europe. It is their problem for them to fix. This has nothing to do with America.

Are there British troops in Ukraine? or Spanish, or French? NO! How is it America's responsibility to fix Europe. Let them sort it out. F**k all of this bullshit!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 08:44:08 pm
I live in America. America is my first concern. I don't give a single solitary SHIT about Ukraine. Sure it is bad. Sure it is a shame. But why is it MY problem. Let Europe sort it out. Why is America (halfway across the globe) flying in with Trillions of our dollars to save Ukraine while deliberately and intentionally ignoring America and American interests. F**K Europe. It is their problem for them to fix. This has nothing to do with America.

Are there British troops in Ukraine? or Spanish, or French? NO! How is it America's responsibility to fix Europe. Let them sort it out. F**k all of this bullshit!

Because isolationism worked so damned well the last couple of times it was tried.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 08:47:14 pm
That may be the question. Why is Ukraine solely up to the USA to "address"?

It isn't.  Other nations have been quite open in supporting Ukraine with military hardware.  On the other hand, the US is more culpable in that they were in the best position to prevent Russia's actions.  For years, they have dangled a huge carrot in Ukraine's face offering them NATO membership while at the same time throwing up obstacle after obstacle blocking their entry.  And then they completely sabotage NATO unity with their fiasco retreat from Afghanistan.  If instead the US had done absolutely nothing, Russia would be scraping by with $30/bbl oil and no hope of taking over Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 09, 2022, 08:48:49 pm
Because isolationism worked so damned well the last couple of times it was tried.
And it has worked so well in every country in which America intervened. Such as Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and a dozen others. America's documented history on intervention is that they only make things much worse, spend billions of dollars, and then bail at the last minute leaving hundreds of thousands of people hanging.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 08:57:38 pm
I live in America. America is my first concern. I don't give a single solitary SHIT about Ukraine. Sure it is bad. Sure it is a shame. But why is it MY problem!? Let Europe sort it out. Why is America (halfway across the globe) flying in with Trillions of our dollars to save Ukraine while deliberately and intentionally ignoring America and American interests. F**K Europe. It is their problem for them to fix. This has nothing to do with America.

From a $40 billion aid package, our government is divvying out chunks of cash to other countries like Turkey, Moldova, Romania, Hungary, Germany, etc., in under the guise of "Ukrainian aid".  Yet not a word of complaint about any of that.  I wonder why?  And then there's all that State Dept largess that allows them to replenish their caviar stocks at all their embassies around the world.  And the DoD money that they are using to replenish the existing stocks of 30-year-old Soviet equipment that we are now handing off to Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Estonia, etc., with brand new US equipment.  Yet not a peep of complaint about that.  The only thing here that brought up any protest at all was the announcement - not the actual delivery, but the announcement of $0.4 billion in weapons being shipped to the Ukraine military which will be used to destroy ten times that amount in Russian equipment.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 08:58:35 pm
And it has worked so well in every country in which America intervened. Such as Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and a dozen others. America's documented history on intervention is that they only make things much worse, spend billions of dollars, and then bail at the last minute leaving hundreds of thousands of people hanging.

Yah, I think you missed a few interventions along the way.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 08:59:15 pm
From a $40 billion aid package, our government is divvying out chunks of cash to other countries like Turkey, Moldova, Romania, Hungary, Germany, etc., in under the guise of "Ukrainian aid".  Yet not a word of complaint about any of that.  I wonder why?  And then there's all that State Dept largess that allows them to replenish their caviar stocks at all their embassies around the world.  And the DoD money that they are using to replenish the existing stocks of 30-year-old Soviet equipment that we are now handing off to Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Estonia, etc., with brand new US equipment.  Yet not a peep of complaint about that.  The only thing here that brought up any protest at all was the announcement - not the actual delivery, but the announcement of $0.4 billion in weapons being shipped to the Ukraine military which will be used to destroy ten times that amount in Russian equipment.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 09, 2022, 09:00:58 pm
And it has worked so well in every country in which America intervened. Such as Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and a dozen others.

Greece, Austria, East Germany, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Spain, etc.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 09, 2022, 09:03:27 pm
OK, so we are back to WWII now? That was a straight anomaly from God. WWII is gone and will never return. That America, that world, does not exist anymore. WWII was the very last American victory over anything, and it will never happen again.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 09:24:54 pm
OK, so we are back to WWII now? That was a straight anomaly from God. WWII is gone and will never return. That America, that world, does not exist anymore. WWII was the very last American victory over anything, and it will never happen again.

That was no anomaly.  The fact that the U.S. f**ked up in places like Afghanistan does not make WWII some sort of special sui generis case that will never arise again.

In fact, Ukraine is right now at this very point demonstrating exactly that point:  give them the tools to kick Russian a$$ and they will do it, without the need for U.S. intervention a'la Afghanistan, or Vietnam, or etc, etc, etc.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 09, 2022, 09:29:58 pm
F**k Ukraine. They either make it on their own with the help of Europe, or they will fall to the natural order of reality. If America was not such a weenie Mother Goose of the world, I think we would all see that Europe is strong enough to take care of themselves when challenged.

Look! All of this is much more critical to Europe than America. But as long as the stupid mule America is pulling the wagon, the rest of the horses will relax and let him do it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 09, 2022, 09:54:03 pm
And it has worked so well in every country in which America intervened. Such as Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, and a dozen others. America's documented history on intervention is that they only make things much worse, spend billions of dollars, and then bail at the last minute leaving hundreds of thousands of people hanging.

Exactly!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 09, 2022, 09:57:22 pm
Hey gang! This thread is getting dangerously  lose to why we closed the last one.  Cool it!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 09, 2022, 10:02:04 pm
First, there is nobody here who thinks that the Southern Border is not a disaster and that something should be done about it, but the only person who can effectively do something about it is Biden, who has chosen not to do anything about it.

Accordingly, your complaints should be addressed to him, not to anyone here.

Secondly, as @Hoodat so kindly points out, you are persistently engaging in the logical fallacy of ginning up a false dilemma.  It is not a choice of either/or, both need to be addressed, and you have gone beyond the point of charity with your fixation on that false dilemma.

So, no, you can mosey on up to the White House and address your false dilemma to the person who could do something about it, and stop pretending that you are so much more moral than everyone else here who doesn't see things exactly the same way you do.

False dilemma?  Definitely not and no, I have NEVER pretended to be more moral than anyone else. Stop antagonizing and pointing fingers; look at yourself. This thread seems to get hijacked by you with your attacks on others.

 :hijack: 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 09, 2022, 10:02:52 pm
False dilemma?  Definitely not and no, I have NEVER pretended to be more moral than anyone else. Stop antagonizing and pointing fingers; look at yourself. This thread seems to get hijacked by you with your attacks on others.

 :hijack: 


:rolleyes:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 09, 2022, 10:44:17 pm
Ukraine to receive 1.7 bln USD from int’l donors: PM

By Xinhua News Agency

https://www.macaubusiness.com/ukraine-to-receive-1-7-bln-usd-from-intl-donors-pm/ (https://www.macaubusiness.com/ukraine-to-receive-1-7-bln-usd-from-intl-donors-pm/)

Ukraine will receive 1.7 billion U.S. dollars in grant aid from international donors, Ukrainian Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal said Saturday on Telegram.

The money will be channeled to Ukraine through a single-donor trust fund set up by the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development, the International Development Association and the U.S. Agency for International Development, Shmyhal said.

The funds will be used to cover Ukraine’s budget expenditures on medical services under a medical guarantee program.

Kiev plans to raise 20 billion dollars in international aid from its Western partners by the end of 2022, said Ukrainian Finance Minister Serhiy Marchenko at a public event last month.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 09, 2022, 10:45:50 pm
9999hair out0000  Stop the absurd and continuous flow of money to the Ukraine ad secure OUR darn border instead!!!
How about letting us know how much actual aid has gone to the Ukraine and how much has been gobbled up along the way. My bet is that Ukraine is only getting a fraction of the funds claimed to be allocated, promised, etc.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 09, 2022, 10:48:35 pm
OK? So what? If they had given Trump the money to "secure America" instead of Ukraine, the grift would still exist. Trump knew that. So, do we want to spend the grift in Ukraine? Or do we want to spend the grift and the gain in America? Your answer is empty and void.
We don't know for certain, but I would bet that the majority of that grift IS being spent in America.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 09, 2022, 11:07:27 pm
How about letting us know how much actual aid has gone to the Ukraine and how much has been gobbled up along the way. My bet is that Ukraine is only getting a fraction of the funds claimed to be allocated, promised, etc.

"Commitments" have been promised, Congress has approved billions...yes I get that a lot of the money probably never made it -- I believe at least some of it is lining the pockets of Joe & Company.

But, in the same light, we can't even get a 'commitment' out of Congress to secure our borders ....  though there was the Secure Fence Act of 2006 and here we sit.

Certainly the actions of our gov't isn't America first.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 09, 2022, 11:09:17 pm
Trench warfare, precision missiles and armed motorcycle units: Why the war in Ukraine looks increasingly anachronistic

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/why-the-war-in-ukraine-looks-increasingly-anachronistic/ (https://taskandpurpose.com/news/why-the-war-in-ukraine-looks-increasingly-anachronistic/)

Brand new HIMARS are sharing the field with World War I-style trenches and repurposed old motorcycles.

This week the Pentagon announced it was sending even more advanced munitions to Ukraine’s military. The $400 million package strengthens its artillery capabilities, even as the war in Ukraine is increasingly looking like a conflict from the past. Despite the advanced missile systems pouring into the country, the two armies are fielding old tanks, beaten up cars mounted with new cannons and deploying tactics from the early 20th century, not the 21st. That weaponry and armor have become more important than ever since the initial Russian push failed and the war has turned into artillery slugfests and trench warfare.

Ukraine has received a steady stream of ever-more-advanced weaponry from NATO member states. Those started with Javelin and Stinger anti-air and anti-tank missiles, to large 155mm howitzer cannons, to most recently the high mobility artillery rocket systems, or HIMARS. These have drastically increased Ukraine’s ability to meet the larger Russian army in battle.

This past week the United States announced it was sending four more HIMARS, a 50 percent boost from eight to 12. The U.S. has stressed that the HIMARS aren’t being used to strike inside of Russia, just at Russian forces in Ukraine’s territory. The weapons were already a game changer – as the name suggests, they can fire multiple rockets in one salvo, but the platforms are also highly maneuverable allowing them to relocate and attack quickly. Ukraine quickly put them in the field once they arrived late last month.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 09, 2022, 11:11:25 pm
"Commitments" have been promised, Congress has approved billions...yes I believe you are correct that a lot of the money never made it -- I believe at least some of it is lining the pockets of Joe & Company.

Heck, we can't even get a 'commitment' out of Congress to secure our borders ....  though there was the Secure Fence Act of 2006 and here we sit.
We cannot get this administration to uphold our own laws in regards immigration and border security. Short of a regime change, that will remain the same. Frankly, I hope enough of all the claimed aid is getting to Ukraine to make a difference.


Every Soviet Russian tank destroyed is one NATO forces will not confront directly later.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 09, 2022, 11:20:26 pm
We cannot get this administration to uphold our own laws in regards immigration and border security. Short of a regime change, that will remain the same. Frankly, I hope enough of all the claimed aid is getting to Ukraine to make a difference.


Every Soviet Russian tank destroyed is one NATO forces will not confront directly later.

The corruptness around the globe continues as the plans for the 'Great Reset' unfold here and abroad.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 10, 2022, 12:33:17 am
We cannot get this administration to uphold our own laws in regards immigration and border security. Short of a regime change, that will remain the same. Frankly, I hope enough of all the claimed aid is getting to Ukraine to make a difference.


Every Soviet Russian tank destroyed is one NATO forces will not confront directly later.

That sums it up pretty nicely!

An additional benefit from aiding Ukraine is Russia's demise will be accelerated. They will not be able to rebuild their military to where it was before and the USA will no longer need to be in NATO. European nations are finally seeing the light and committing to rebuilding their military's. How many BILLIONS will we save by pulling out of Europe?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 10, 2022, 01:04:27 am
The corruptness around the globe continues as the plans for the 'Great Reset' unfold here and abroad.
Yes, it does, and if it were not for Ukraine, those who are robbing us blind would have a different excuse.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 10, 2022, 01:38:33 am
But, in the same light, we can't even get a 'commitment' out of Congress to secure our borders ....  though there was the Secure Fence Act of 2006 and here we sit.

Certainly the actions of our gov't isn't America first.

Your complaint is valid.  However, this does not mean that Ukraine should be abandoned just because of a totally unconnected issue.  The two are not related.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 10, 2022, 01:41:31 am
Every Soviet Russian tank destroyed is one NATO forces will not confront directly later.

Correctamundo.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 10, 2022, 02:41:42 am
Correctamundo.
Correcta ... or Correcto
depending if or not if the person you are speaking to is mentally deranged.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 10, 2022, 05:20:13 am
'We see them as brothers in arms here': UK training thousands of Ukrainian recruits in England

Deborah Haynes  |  21h ago  04:08


The UK has started turning thousands of Ukrainian recruits into frontline soldiers at four bases across England, safe from Russian missile fire, it can be revealed.

The new troops, operating in groups of about 200, are arriving from Ukraine daily to join a specially-condensed training programme offered by British soldiers. They will then return home to fight Russia’s invading forces.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-lysychansk-donetsk-putin-12541713?postid=4136378#liveblog-body
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 10, 2022, 05:35:08 am
'I overcame my fear a long time ago. I have only rage left' - resistance and escape under occupation

Collaborate or resist and risk your life? Do you escape and say goodbye to your community? These are the dilemmas you're faced with living in occupied Ukraine. This is the story of one man grappling with these questions, a plight faced by millions of Ukrainians.

Kieran Devine  |  10 July 2022 02:26, UK

Whenever Oleksiy was planning a trip from his home in the occupied region of Kherson, he would come prepared with a "legend" for the journey, a persona that helped him avoid suspicion at Russian checkpoints.


He found playing the character of an elderly Russian farmer worked best.

He brought props to back up his story - a flashdrive loaded with Russian songs he could play in his van, a shovel, and a tractor's licence. The fact he was born in Russia certainly helped him too.

It was useful during the three months under occupation while he ran errands helping his community, including delivering groceries and distributing medicine.  .  .


.  .  .  Having grown up in Russia, Oleksiy might be the type of Ukrainian that Vladimir Putin expected to give his troops a warm welcome. His reaction to the invasion and his resistance shows just how wrong the Russian president was.

"I overcame my fear a long time ago. I have only rage left."

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-i-overcame-my-fear-i-have-only-rage-left-resistance-and-escape-under-occupation-12646536



Good read.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 10, 2022, 04:14:43 pm
Your complaint is valid.  However, this does not mean that Ukraine should be abandoned just because of a totally unconnected issue.  The two are not related.

I know you know this, but it's all a smoke screen on their part.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 10, 2022, 08:43:50 pm
Apartment block destroyed after Russian rocket strike

3 hours ago


At least 15 people have been killed and about 20 more are feared buried under rubble after Russian rockets struck an apartment block in Chasiv Yar, a town in eastern Ukraine, officials have said.

One side of the five-story building was ripped apart, leaving a mountain of rubble. Chasiv Yar is near the city of Kramatorsk, in the Donetsk region.

Dozens of emergency workers are still searching for people beneath the piles of concrete and rubble, assisted by a bulldozer and a crane.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-62116232
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 10, 2022, 08:47:57 pm
Russian rockets kill 15 in Chasiv Yar housing block, Ukraine says

5 hours ago

At least 15 people have been killed and about 20 more are feared buried under rubble after Russian rockets struck an apartment block in Chasiv Yar, a town in eastern Ukraine, officials say.


Five victims have been brought out alive. The death toll was given by a Ukrainian emergency services official.

One side of the five-storey building was ripped apart, leaving a mountain of rubble. Chasiv Yar is near the city of Kramatorsk, in Donetsk region.

Donetsk is the focus of a Russian push.

The region's governor Pavlo Kyrylenko said the destruction was caused by Russian Uragan rockets. . .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62113185

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 10, 2022, 08:49:20 pm
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/A8E3/production/_125853234_mediaitem125853233.jpg)
Chasiv Yar: Bodies were recovered from the devastated apartment block
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 11, 2022, 04:49:45 am
Ukraine soldiers arrest corrupt cop outside Kharkiv who was shaking down locals for cash.

  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3TX1CqJOFc)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 11, 2022, 12:32:33 pm
'Twelve of Putin's officers are killed' in strike on command post in occupied Kherson as 'Vladimir is enraged by failure of his S-400 defence system' while US-supplied HIMARS missiles inflict critical losses

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
11 July 2022

Twelve Russian officers are thought to have been killed in a single rocket strike as Ukraine's armed forces inflict punishing losses with American-supplied weapons.

The attack targeted a command post in at Chornobaivka Airport, near the occupied southern city of Kherson, and is rumoured to have killed at least one general and one colonel. It is thought to have been carried out using US HIMARS rockets.

Video shows what appears to be an ammunition dump at the base exploding, as Russian Telegram channels report Putin is infuriated at the inability of Russia's S-400 anti-air systems to protect his armed forces.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11001617/Twelve-Putins-officers-killed-Ukraine-strike-Russian-command-post.html

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 11, 2022, 12:38:21 pm
Quote
 Russian Telegram channels report Putin is infuriated at the inability of Russia's S-400 anti-air systems to protect his armed forces.

If Putin gave a damn about protecting his armed forces, then he would get them the hell out of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 11, 2022, 04:56:04 pm
Don’t call him President Putin, call him ‘our ruler’: Kremlin allies urge title change for Russian despot

By JAMIE PHILLIPS FOR MAILONLINE
10 July 2022

Kremlin allies have called for Vladimir Putin to be addressed as the country's 'Ruler' rather than his current title 'President'.

The Liberal Democratic Party (LDPR) has suggested the use of Pravitel, a Russian title, as it is more befitting of Putin's status and role.

The right-wing party has 22 seats out of the 450 in the country's parliament and is currently used by the Kremlin to gently float its more radical ideas and garner evidence on their popularity.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11000857/Dont-call-President-Putin-call-ruler-Kremlin-allies-urge-title-change.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 11, 2022, 04:56:20 pm
Don’t call him President Putin, call him ‘our ruler’: Kremlin allies urge title change for Russian despot

By JAMIE PHILLIPS FOR MAILONLINE
10 July 2022

Kremlin allies have called for Vladimir Putin to be addressed as the country's 'Ruler' rather than his current title 'President'.

The Liberal Democratic Party (LDPR) has suggested the use of Pravitel, a Russian title, as it is more befitting of Putin's status and role.

The right-wing party has 22 seats out of the 450 in the country's parliament and is currently used by the Kremlin to gently float its more radical ideas and garner evidence on their popularity.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11000857/Dont-call-President-Putin-call-ruler-Kremlin-allies-urge-title-change.html



In other words:  Der Fuhrer
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 11, 2022, 05:05:21 pm


In other words:  Der Fuhrer

@Kamaji

Der Fuhrer,The Commisar,The Illustrious leader wearing PJ's,it's all the same critter. The only thing different is the uniform.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 11, 2022, 05:55:57 pm
@Kamaji

Der Fuhrer,The Commisar,The Illustrious leader wearing PJ's,it's all the same critter. The only thing different is the uniform.

True enough.  A nazi is a nazi is a nazi, regardless of the name he gives himself.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 11, 2022, 09:51:45 pm
by Luka Ivan Jukic
Friday, 8 July 2022
Ukraine unveils McKinsey programme for nation-builders
The $750bn plan looks like an audit written for 19th century nationalists
Quote
This week Ukraine released a comprehensive draft of its proposed recovery plan, which includes a $750 billion price tag. President Zelensky has called on the world’s democracies to fund Ukraine’s reconstruction, with a deal that contains everything from infrastructure and healthcare to farming and nuclear energy and much, much more. It is ambitious, to say the least.

Not only is this a plan for Ukraine’s physical reconstruction, but also included in this proposal is a detailed plan to forge a stronger unified Ukrainian national identity. Like if a McKinsey audit was written with the goals of 19th century Romantic nationalists in mind.

For example, one plan from the “Youth and Sports” working group sets out in three stages a path to solving the problem of “insufficiently formed Ukrainian national and civic identity.”

Stage 1 — to be completed this year — sees a unified narrative on the formation of Ukrainian identity being created. Stage 2 — from January 2023 to December 2025 — sees the level of Ukrainian identity in the country reaching 85%. And, finally, stage 3 envisions “the field of national and patriotic education” aligned with EU standards by 2032. ...
Read entire article (https://unherd.com/thepost/ukraines-unveils-mckinsey-programme-for-nation-builders/)
See also: https://twitter.com/lijukic/status/1545419161387548672
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 11, 2022, 10:33:48 pm
by Luka Ivan Jukic
Friday, 8 July 2022
Ukraine unveils McKinsey programme for nation-builders
The $750bn plan looks like an audit written for 19th century nationalistsRead entire article (https://unherd.com/thepost/ukraines-unveils-mckinsey-programme-for-nation-builders/)
See also: https://twitter.com/lijukic/status/1545419161387548672

I suspect they will be highly disappointed by the ultimate results.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 11, 2022, 11:51:21 pm
"Nation Building."    9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 12, 2022, 12:22:14 am
Explosions rock Russian-occupied town in southern Ukraine for second time in four days, Ukrainian official says

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-11-22/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-07-11-22/index.html)

A series of large explosions rocked the town of Nova Kakhovka in the Kherson region of Ukraine on Monday night. The town, like much of Kherson, is under Russian occupation.

Serhiy Khlan, a Ukrainian official who is a member of Kherson regional council, said on Facebook: "In Nova Kakhovka minus one Russian ammo depot. They brought, brought, stockpiled, stockpiled and now have fireworks at night."

(https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/e6e7e98f-5c02-4871-9baf-a65d299f32d3.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 12, 2022, 12:32:32 am
'Twelve of Putin's officers are killed' in strike on command post in occupied Kherson as 'Vladimir is enraged by failure of his S-400 defence system' while US-supplied HIMARS missiles inflict critical losses

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
11 July 2022

Twelve Russian officers are thought to have been killed in a single rocket strike as Ukraine's armed forces inflict punishing losses with American-supplied weapons.

The attack targeted a command post in at Chornobaivka Airport, near the occupied southern city of Kherson, and is rumoured to have killed at least one general and one colonel. It is thought to have been carried out using US HIMARS rockets.

Video shows what appears to be an ammunition dump at the base exploding, as Russian Telegram channels report Putin is infuriated at the inability of Russia's S-400 anti-air systems to protect his armed forces.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11001617/Twelve-Putins-officers-killed-Ukraine-strike-Russian-command-post.html

Just imagine how the war would change if Ukraine had 50 of these systems instead of 12.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 12, 2022, 12:34:36 am
"Nation Building."    9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000

No it's not!

It's nation saving.

A big difference.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 12, 2022, 12:39:18 am
Putin expands fast-track Russian citizenship to all Ukraine

https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/07/12/putin-expands-fast-track-russian-citizenship-to-all-ukraine/ (https://www.1news.co.nz/2022/07/12/putin-expands-fast-track-russian-citizenship-to-all-ukraine/)

Quote
As Russian missiles struck a key Ukrainian city, Russian President Vladimir Putin expanded a fast-track procedure for obtaining Russian citizenship to all Ukrainians on Tuesday, another effort to strengthen Moscow's influence over war-torn Ukraine.

Until recently, only residents of Ukraine's separatist eastern Donetsk and Luhansk regions, as well as residents of the southern Zaporizhzhia and the Kherson regions, large parts of which are now under Russian control, were eligible to apply for the simplified passport procedure.

Ukrainian officials haven’t yet reacted to Putin’s announcement that he had signed a passport decree, which also applies for any stateless residents currently in Ukraine.

Between 2019, when the procedure was introduced for the residents of Donetsk and Luhansk, and this year, more than 720,000 people living in the rebel-held areas in the two regions — about 18% of the population – have received Russian passports.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 12, 2022, 12:43:18 am
External Countries Sign Final Declaration Of Ukraine Recovery In Lugano

https://www.eurasiareview.com/12072022-external-countries-sign-final-declaration-of-ukraine-recovery-in-lugano-oped/ (https://www.eurasiareview.com/12072022-external-countries-sign-final-declaration-of-ukraine-recovery-in-lugano-oped/)

Quote
Ukraine has recieved a tremendous financial support and pledges towards its economic recovery and destruction during Russia’s “special military operation” on its territory that began late February. Russia’s military opeartion, now in its fifth month, has destroyed significant infrastructure and severely crippled the economy.

According to reports monitored by this author, more than 40 countries have signed the final declaration of the Ukraine Recovery Conference held this month in Switzerland’s Lugano. The signatories reiterated their full support for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine within its internationally recognized borders.

The countries recognized a Ukraine-led draft of the Recovery and Development Plan as an overarching framework guiding the recovery process, allowing for coordinated multi-stakeholder participation and partnerships.

The participants supported the establishment of an effective coordination platform between the Ukrainian government and all of its bilateral and multilateral partners, organizations and international financial institutions for the preparation and implementation of Ukraine’s Recovery and Development Plan.

The signatories stressed the importance of fair and transparent development of finance, lending and borrowing practices in accordance with international rules, standards and recognized principles in the process of Ukraine’s recovery.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 12, 2022, 12:51:23 am
"Nation Building."    9999hair out

Relax, @Cyber Liberty .  Only if Putin is able to conquer all of Ukraine will Biden begin funding nation building.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 12, 2022, 01:24:26 am
Relax, @Cyber Liberty .  Only if Putin is able to conquer all of Ukraine will Biden begin funding nation building.

 888high58888
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 12, 2022, 02:43:07 am
No it's not!

It's nation saving.


Like Afghanistan.   :smokin:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 12, 2022, 03:13:20 am
The only ones who should be footing the bill for the restoration of Ukraine are Russia and Belarus.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 12, 2022, 03:24:41 am
The only ones who should be footing the bill for the restoration of Ukraine are Russia and Belarus.

That is 100% correct, but we have Pedo Peter in action.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 12, 2022, 10:39:39 am
The only ones who should be footing the bill for the restoration of Ukraine are Russia and Belarus.

 :laugh:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 12, 2022, 02:46:59 pm
:laugh:

@Hoodat  @Right_in_Virginia

I didn't realize that you live in a perfect world. Can I talk you into inviting me to visit?

In the meantime,the world the REST of us live in is imperfect,and WE realize that such a thing as the aggressors paying for the damages only happens in the future,IF the party that was attacked wins.

Adults realize this.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 12, 2022, 03:05:54 pm
In the meantime,the world the REST of us live in is imperfect,and WE realize that such a thing as the aggressors paying for the damages only happens in the future,IF the party that was attacked wins.

Adults realize this.

which is why Ukraine must win.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on July 12, 2022, 03:09:12 pm
France demanded that Germany pay reparations after World War I.  That worked well.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 12, 2022, 03:44:43 pm
which is why Ukraine must win.

@Hoodat

Only one of the MANY reasons why Ukraine must win. IMNSHO,the biggest reason they must win is to reduce the power and influence of the evil known as the "Soviet Union" in order to make the whole damn world a safer place.

ANYBODY that thinks cutting back on aid to Ukraine so they can fight off the Soviet Monster in order to save money is a fool. The exact opposite is what is true.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 12, 2022, 05:55:25 pm
@Hoodat  @Right_in_Virginia

I didn't realize that you live in a perfect world. Can I talk you into inviting me to visit?

In the meantime,the world the REST of us live in is imperfect,and WE realize that such a thing as the aggressors paying for the damages only happens in the future,IF the party that was attacked wins.

Adults realize this.

Actually @sneakypete  ....  Adults realize this (  pointing-down  ) is our clear and present danger  (Video)

https://rumble.com/embed/v19dz3v/?pub=4
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 12, 2022, 06:04:03 pm
Jack Posobiec
@Jack Posobiec

BREAKING: @SenKevinCramer says there is no 'dollar amount' limit on how much he is willing to send to Ukraine

- @CharlieKirk11 Show

12:49 PM · Jul 12, 2022 from Washington, DC·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 12, 2022, 06:39:22 pm
"There’s a mass looting of America going on.

Disclose.tv
@disclosetv
 · 4h

NOW - U.S. announces additional $1.7 billion in aid to Ukraine."   (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1546888643188588544
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 12, 2022, 08:55:53 pm
Like Afghanistan.   :smokin:

Perfect example of the difference.

Afghanistan was nation building. We tried to instill a system of governance.

Ukraine has an established system of governance and is only seeking to protect itself from an invader. If Ukraine is able to repel the invaders other than aid that we might provide we will be done.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 13, 2022, 01:54:10 am
Revered Ukrainian general on possibility of striking Crimean Bridge

https://www.yahoo.com/now/revered-ukrainian-general-possibility-striking-183600456.html (https://www.yahoo.com/now/revered-ukrainian-general-possibility-striking-183600456.html)

(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/COlyBZqvfGJBH4yNpdEglQ--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTk2MDtoPTQ4MDtjZj13ZWJw/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/pkiUm7u23.KlVKR_0tW4Ng--~B/aD00NTA7dz05MDA7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media.zenfs.com/en/the_new_voice_of_ukraine_articles_294/276646fd6fdee7b376471eddf785646e)

Now that Russia has launched all-out war in Ukraine, and Kyiv has taken delivery of sophisticated modern long-range Western artillery and missile systems, the possibility that Ukraine might indeed destroy the hated bridge had increased. But how likely is it to happen?

The Main Intelligence Directorate under the Ministry of Defense announced in June that it had received the technical documentation on the Crimean Bridge.

The Crimean (Kerch) Bridge is an illegally built bridge across the Kerch Strait that connects Russia with the Ukrainian peninsula that it has occupied since 2014. Through it, the aggressor country transfers its troopsand equipment to Crimea, and then to the south of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 13, 2022, 02:39:05 am
France demanded that Germany pay reparations after World War I.  That worked well.

France remained in a state of war with Germany for 250 days.  They watched Germany conquer Poland, Norway, and Denmark, and did nothing.  France had the largest army in Europe at the time.  On May 10, 1940, they watched a smaller German army invade Luxembourg, Belgium, and the Netherlands, and still did nothing.  It is this fact that did not work out well.

If France had come to Poland's aid in Sept 1939, they at the very least could have marched to the Rhine, reoccupying the Ruhr, and threatening Frankfurt, Stuttgart, and possibly Munich.  But they showed weakness instead.  And this more than anything else led to the German onslaught over Europe.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 13, 2022, 05:22:30 am
Perfect example of the difference.

Ukraine has an established system of governance and is only seeking to protect itself from an invader.

There's no way of knowing this @bilo until we know Zelensky's puppet masters and their goals.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 13, 2022, 05:56:20 am
Jack Posobiec
@Jack Posobiec

BREAKING: @SenKevinCramer says there is no 'dollar amount' limit on how much he is willing to send to Ukraine

- @CharlieKirk11 Show

12:49 PM · Jul 12, 2022 from Washington, DC·Twitter Web App
Kramer is from ND, where the population is American Indian, Norwegian, German, and Ukrainian in heritage, for the most part. He is pandering to the base back home, at least in part.
I just want the amounts promised delivered in aid for military operations and humanitarian purposes, not just fed to long strings of layered consultants who 'plan' to deliver butter and guns.  The more Russian military might is blunted in Ukraine, especially if the Ukrainians succeed in kicking the Russians out, the less likely the rest of Eastern Europe will be subjected to territorial ambitions by Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 13, 2022, 06:12:20 am
We really must stop our Eurocentric foreign policy and pay atttention to the shadow China is casting in this country and across South America.

We owe Europe nothing.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 13, 2022, 08:42:57 am
Perfect example of the difference.

Afghanistan was nation building. We tried to instill a system of governance.

Ukraine has an established system of governance and is only seeking to protect itself from an invader. If Ukraine is able to repel the invaders other than aid that we might provide we will be done.

@bilo


Not to mention Afghanistan was a religious war,and both sides hated us and wanted to see us dead because they considered us to be infidels.

After getting all the money and other aid from us that was possible to get,of course.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 13, 2022, 08:48:15 am
Kramer is from ND, where the population is American Indian, Norwegian, German, and Ukrainian in heritage, for the most part. He is pandering to the base back home, at least in part.
I just want the amounts promised delivered in aid for military operations and humanitarian purposes, not just fed to long strings of layered consultants who 'plan' to deliver butter and guns.  The more Russian military might is blunted in Ukraine, especially if the Ukrainians succeed in kicking the Russians out, the less likely the rest of Eastern Europe will be subjected to territorial ambitions by Russia.

@Smokin Joe

Seems so simple that even a child should be able to understand it,doesn't it?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 13, 2022, 08:53:13 am
We really must stop our Eurocentric foreign policy and pay atttention to the shadow China is casting in this country and across South America.

We owe Europe nothing.

@Right_in_Virginia

China started invading us in the 1980's,when we started allowing PLA officers to attend universities in the US and steal our technology to send back to China,and to allow the PLA officers who came here to learn how to teach it to their students when they get back to China.

So what could possibly be a better plan than allow the Russians to top that by invading and conquering other nations and making them vassal states to a suddenly even more dangerous Russia?

You surrender monkey are useless.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 13, 2022, 12:32:13 pm

BREAKING: @SenKevinCramer says there is no 'dollar amount' limit on how much he is willing to send to Ukraine

There it is in the nutshell.  40 years of this attitude, where there are 535 slugs in DC, who do not realize whose money this is.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 13, 2022, 12:44:49 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

China started invading us in the 1980's,when we started allowing PLA officers to attend universities in the US and steal our technology to send back to China,and to allow the PLA officers who came here to learn how to teach it to their students when they get back to China.

So what could possibly be a better plan than allow the Russians to top that by invading and conquering other nations and making them vassal states to a suddenly even more dangerous Russia?

You surrender monkey are useless.

Ah, Europe ..... a bloodthirsty land for eons that has bestowed upon the world in just one century:  socialism, marxism, nazism, fascism, communism, modern globalism, and 50-80 million dead from just two world wars they refuse to stop fighting.

And you call me a "surrender monkey" because I don't want my free and independent nation dragged into this sh*thole every time it farts?

What the heck is wrong with you @sneakypete ?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 13, 2022, 01:14:30 pm
Ukraine calls US rocket launchers ‘game-changer’ against Russia, asks for more

By Callie Patteson
July 11, 2022

Ukraine’s defense minister has described long-range rocket systems supplied by the US as a “game-changer” in Kyiv’s fight against Russia’s brutal, months-long invasion — but insisted the Eastern European country needs more help to secure ultimate victory.

“We are waiting for more armor, more weaponry from our partners,” Oleksii Reznikov told the Wall Street Journal in an interview published Sunday. “The war is grim … We need more. We need it quickly.”

The High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems — known as HIMARS — have allowed Ukrainian troops to precisely target Russian forces from up to 50 miles away.

Reznikov told the Journal that the weaponry was used most effectively by Ukrainian forces in the fight for the city of Izyum, about 75 miles southeast of Kharkiv.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/11/ukraine-calls-us-rocket-launchers-game-changer-requests-more/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 13, 2022, 02:05:07 pm
Ukraine calls US rocket launchers ‘game-changer’ against Russia, asks for more

By Callie Patteson
July 11, 2022


Do we know who's buying them from Ukraine?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 13, 2022, 04:22:36 pm
There's no way of knowing this @bilo until we know Zelensky's puppet masters and their goals.

You don't see the trend to deglobalization.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 13, 2022, 04:31:05 pm
You don't see the trend to deglobalization.

Not a whit in European leadership, including the Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 13, 2022, 04:43:19 pm
Do we know who's buying them from Ukraine?

See:  Logical fallacies - Poisoning the Well
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 13, 2022, 05:06:14 pm
Ukraine, Russia held first talks on blockaded grain since March, result unknown

https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraine-russia-held-first-talks-on-blockaded-grain-since-march-result-unknown.html (https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/ukraine-russia-held-first-talks-on-blockaded-grain-since-march-result-unknown.html)

Quote
Ukraine and Russia held the first direct grain talks since March in a bid to break an impasse over grain exports that has seen food prices soar and millions around the globe face hunger.

The high-stake meeting, held in Istanbul on Wednesday, July 13, and also involving UN and Turkish officials, broke up after slightly more than three hours without any immediate signs on a breakthrough. The Turkish defence ministry issued a one-statement sentence saying the talks had “ended” and offering no hint as to whether progress had been achieved.

But the stakes could not be higher for tens of millions of people facing the threat of starvation in African and other poorest nations because of the battles engulfing one of the main grain producing regions of the world. Ukrainian officials said at least five people died in Russian shelling on the region surrounding the Black Sea port city of Mykolaiv.

“You never get used to war. It’s dreadful and scary,” 60-year-old Lyubov Mozhayeva said in the partially destroyed frontline city of Bakhmut. Ukraine is a vital exporter of wheat and grains such as barley and maize. It has also supplied nearly half of all the sunflower oil traded on global markets.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 13, 2022, 05:16:53 pm
See:  Logical fallacies - Poisoning the Well

So you don't know who's buying our weapons from Ukraine.  Thanks for the admission.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 13, 2022, 10:04:54 pm
So you don't know who's buying our weapons from Ukraine.  Thanks for the admission.

I don't know if you've stopped molesting six-year-olds either.  Just as you don't know if Ukraine is selling US-supplied weapons.

(See:  Well poisoning)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Mod2 on July 13, 2022, 10:18:43 pm
Stop it right now. No personal attacks.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 13, 2022, 10:30:38 pm
There it is in the nutshell.  40 years of this attitude, where there are 535 slugs in DC, who do not realize whose money this is.
They have heard the nonsense about being part of the 'ruling class' so often they have forgotten they are our employees.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2022, 01:40:47 am
Ah, Europe ..... a bloodthirsty land for eons that has bestowed upon the world in just one century:  socialism, marxism, nazism, fascism, communism, modern globalism, and 50-80 million dead from just two world wars they refuse to stop fighting.

And you call me a "surrender monkey" because I don't want my free and independent nation dragged into this sh*thole every time it farts?

What the heck is wrong with you @sneakypete ?

@Right_in_Virginia

I realize you are clueless.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 14, 2022, 05:59:44 am
@Right_in_Virginia

I realize you are clueless.

Realize this  pointing-down   @sneakypete

Tucker Carlson, Jul 13, 2022:  (Video)
-America in Decline
-Putin
-Ukraine

https://rumble.com/embed/v19l8tt/?pub=4
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 14, 2022, 06:15:53 am
 pointing-up  Watch the whole show. if you have the time.  But don't miss the opening segment.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2022, 10:01:31 am
Realize this  pointing-down   @sneakypete

Tucker Carlson, Jul 13, 2022:  (Video)
-America in Decline
-Putin
-Ukraine

https://rumble.com/embed/v19l8tt/?pub=4

@Right_in_Virginia

Now you are going to try to link inflation in the US to the Russian invasion of Ukraine?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 14, 2022, 10:06:49 am
@Right_in_Virginia

I realize you are clueless.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 14, 2022, 11:32:11 am
@Right_in_Virginia

Now you are going to try to link inflation in the US to the Russian invasion of Ukraine?

 :facepalm2:  Watch the video @sneakypete   Neither I, nor Carlson, are claiming this.....your president is.

Watch.... and learn how you're being lied to by your own government.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 14, 2022, 11:34:11 am
:thumbsup:

I'm not the one being played by the most corrupt, anti-American administration in US history @Kamaji .... led by a man with advanced dementia.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2022, 11:44:47 am
:facepalm2:  Watch the video @sneakypete   Neither I, nor Carlson, are claiming this.....your president is.

Watch.... and learn how you're being lied to by your own government.

@Right_in_Virginia

MY President???

Which one of us is the surrender monkey?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 14, 2022, 11:46:57 am
@Right_in_Virginia

MY President???

Which one of us is the surrender monkey?

Have the guts to watch the video @sneakypete   .... or walk away.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 14, 2022, 11:52:13 am
Have the guts to watch the video @sneakypete   .... or walk away.

I watched the video, @Right_in_Virginia .  What does any of that have to do with halting the barbarism that Russia is inflicting on the people of Ukraine?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2022, 12:21:54 pm
Have the guts to watch the video @sneakypete   .... or walk away.

@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,in YOUR world it takes a lot of guts to watch and listen to a pompous  fool express his "feelings" and random brain farts.

This may come as a shock to you,but many of us are capable of thinking for ourselves.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 14, 2022, 02:13:09 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,in YOUR world it takes a lot of guts to watch and listen to a pompous  fool express his "feelings" and random brain farts.

This may come as a shock to you,but many of us are capable of thinking for ourselves.

If you watched the video, you'd realize that Biden/dim/RINO fixation on Putin, Russia and Ukraine is a diversion to give cover to our true most dangerous enemy......   The Chicoms.

I'd bet money you didn't watch it.   Calling TC a pompous fool, is about as damned silly thing as you've said yet.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 14, 2022, 05:53:27 pm
ICYMI


Tucker Carlson, Jul 13, 2022:  (Video)
-America in Decline
-Putin
-Ukraine

https://rumble.com/embed/v19l8tt/?pub=4
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 14, 2022, 05:56:37 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,in YOUR world it takes a lot of guts to watch and listen to a pompous  fool express his "feelings" and random brain farts

You need to watch the video ---- or stop commenting on it @sneakypete   You sound foolish.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: LMAO on July 14, 2022, 06:42:14 pm
(https://dynaimage.cdn.cnn.com/cnn/digital-images/org/d39b4732-981e-4782-b2fc-c6aa91856682.JPG)
First time for Blumenthal in a war zone, I understand.

Lol
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2022, 07:11:14 pm
If you watched the video, you'd realize that Biden/dim/RINO fixation on Putin, Russia and Ukraine is a diversion to give cover to our true most dangerous enemy......   The Chicoms.

I'd bet money you didn't watch it.   Calling TC a pompous fool, is about as damned silly thing as you've said yet.

@catfish1957

You might break even. I watched and listened to part of it,and gave up on that clown show.

And the Chinese are NOT our biggest enemy at this point in time. Our biggest enemy is the international banks,whose owners dream of ruling the world.

In FACT,IF our politicians gave a damn about the survival of America,they would never even let anyone from China visit as a tourist. Left to their own devices,the Chinese will end up killing themselves off as they fight for food. They have to be one of the least creative people in the world due to centuries of being servants to the wealthy and the old rule about "anyone that raises their heads up becomes a speed bump". The Chinese leaders want and DEMAND obedience,and see creativity as a threat to their rule.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2022, 07:12:42 pm
You need to watch the video ---- or stop commenting on it @sneakypete   You sound foolish.

@Right_in_Virginia

I don't know what else he has said or done because I ignore the professional pundits as much as possible,but what I did hear from him sounded like brain farts to me.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 14, 2022, 10:11:30 pm
You need to watch the video ---- or stop commenting on it @sneakypete   You sound foolish.

Again, how does this video have any connection with stopping the barbarism that Russia is inflicting on the people of Ukraine?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 14, 2022, 10:24:45 pm
Again, how does this video have any connection with stopping the barbarism that Russia is inflicting on the people of Ukraine?

The point is....

There are three very specific issues facing this nation that far exceeds our need to waste Billions in Ukraine:

1. Economic destruction  at the hands of the democrats. We don't need to be wasting any money there.  It is an EU issue....  let them deal with it.
2. Same billions being wasted in Ukraine needs to be applied toward security of our southern border.  Thousands and thousands are dying of Fentanly poisioning.  The adding the added massive crime?  Seal the border now with that money.
3. Chicom threat.  From theft of technology, IP, and governmental graft with our legislators.  The Chicoms have made massive inroads knocking us off the top shelf, with our self inflicted actions.  Anyone thinking Putin is a bigger threat to this country than Xi is bonkers.

I know you've sported the teal/yellow colors for months now.  Why not show some preference red,white, and blue for a while?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 14, 2022, 11:09:24 pm
Again, how does this video have any connection with stopping the barbarism that Russia is inflicting on the people of Ukraine?

Again, how does this video have any connection with stopping the barbarism that Russia is inflicting on the people of Ukraine?

@Hoodat

You are wasting your time trying to reason with isolationists. They live in their own little sealed off world,where nothing that happens outside of their neighborhoods will ever have any actual effect on them.

"It's all about me,me,ME,DAMMIT!"
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 14, 2022, 11:23:52 pm
SSDD. How about we de-fund gender studies, woke-ism, the people at the EPA writing another set of moved and even new goalposts, and use that money on the border?

There should be plenty of money we don't have to do both.

There are trainloads of Federal grants and programs that can be cut to secure our border, and if we got creative with the budget knife, we might be able to send the Ukraine the tools they need to keep us out of the next big war in Europe which will be inevitable if the current Russian Aggression succeeds.

Otherwise, sit back and watch as the US is invaded (a Democrat priority!) and the Ukraine is ground away like Eastern Europe by Hitler, and ballyhoo about peace in our time.

And make all those folks pay back their own student loans.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 14, 2022, 11:43:52 pm
The point is....

There are three very specific issues facing this nation that far exceeds our need to waste Billions in Ukraine:

1. Economic destruction  at the hands of the democrats. We don't need to be wasting any money there.  It is an EU issue....  let them deal with it.
2. Same billions being wasted in Ukraine needs to be applied toward security of our southern border.  Thousands and thousands are dying of Fentanly poisioning.  The adding the added massive crime?  Seal the border now with that money.
3. Chicom threat.  From theft of technology, IP, and governmental graft with our legislators.  The Chicoms have made massive inroads knocking us off the top shelf, with our self inflicted actions.

Abandoning Ukraine to the wolves does not fix any of those three.

(See:  Logical fallacies - False Dilemma)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 14, 2022, 11:49:24 pm
SSDD. How about we de-fund gender studies, woke-ism, the people at the EPA writing another set of moved and even new goalposts, and use that money on the border?

There should be plenty of money we don't have to do both.

There are trainloads of Federal grants and programs that can be cut to secure our border, and if we got creative with the budget knife, we might be able to send the Ukraine the tools they need to keep us out of the next big war in Europe which will be inevitable if the current Russian Aggression succeeds.

Exactly.  We already spend enough money buying free stuff for illegals to pay for a wall several times over.  Heck, if we simply stopped giving out free stuff, illegals would stop coming here.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 14, 2022, 11:51:26 pm
President: By striking Vinnytsia, Russia shows its attitude towards civilized world

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3529280-president-by-striking-vinnytsia-russia-shows-its-attitude-towards-civilized-world.html (https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3529280-president-by-striking-vinnytsia-russia-shows-its-attitude-towards-civilized-world.html)

Russia showed its attitude towards international law by striking Vinnytsia just when Russia’s crimes were discussed at the international conference in The Hague.

President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky said this in his latest address, Ukrinform reports.

Zelensky clarified that today he addresses not Ukrainian men and women, as usual, but our partners – the democratic world. He reminded that 23 people, including three children under the age of ten, had been killed in a missile attack on Vinnytsia. This number, unfortunately, may not be final as the rubble is still being removed.

“A girl is among the dead today in Vinnytsia, she was four years old, her name was Liza. The child was four years old! Her mother is in critical condition... Russia ended the girl's life just at the time when a conference on Russian war crimes was taking place in the Netherlands, in The Hague. A conference where it was decided what should be done to ensure that every Russian military is punished. Can you think of any other terrorist organization that would allow itself such audacity? To kill just at the moment when its previous crimes are the subject of international discussion. Russia has thus shown its attitude to international law, to Europe, and to the entire civilized world,” the Head of State said.

The president added that dozens of people are listed as missing, and heavily wounded are among those hospitalized.

“One of the missiles destroyed the Neuromed medical center. There were people inside. Nataliya, she is 40 years old. Tetiana, she is 32 years old. Volodymyr, he is 61 years old. Vira, she is 55 years old. I saw them among the missing. You see, it was not even known what happened to the people who simply went to the medical center. And if someone launched a missile attack on a medical center in Dallas or Dresden, God forbid, what would it be called? Wouldn’t it be called terrorism?” the President stressed.

As noted, this day once again proved that Russia must be officially recognized as a terrorist state: “No other state in the world poses such a terrorist threat as Russia. No other state in the world allows itself to destroy peaceful cities and ordinary human life with cruise missiles and rocket artillery every day.”

Zelensky added that no one can now have any doubt that a special tribunal on Russian aggression against Ukraine is needed as soon as possible. Also, a special compensation mechanism must be implemented as soon as possible, with the help of which all Russian assets and funds in all countries of the world must be confiscated and aimed at compensations for the victims of Russian terror.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on July 14, 2022, 11:57:34 pm
The point is....

There are three very specific issues facing this nation that far exceeds our need to waste Billions in Ukraine:

1. Economic destruction  at the hands of the democrats. We don't need to be wasting any money there.  It is an EU issue....  let them deal with it.
2. Same billions being wasted in Ukraine needs to be applied toward security of our southern border.  Thousands and thousands are dying of Fentanly poisioning.  The adding the added massive crime?  Seal the border now with that money.
3. Chicom threat.  From theft of technology, IP, and governmental graft with our legislators.  The Chicoms have made massive inroads knocking us off the top shelf, with our self inflicted actions.  Anyone thinking Putin is a bigger threat to this country than Xi is bonkers.

I know you've sported the teal/yellow colors for months now.  Why not show some preference red,white, and blue for a while?

Why not go to another thread to discuss those very important topics, as I am sure there must be dozens of them available, instead of wasting your time here on this thread, which is dedicated to the topic of Russia's invasion of Ukraine?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 15, 2022, 12:01:58 am
Experts document alleged crimes against humanity committed by Russian forces in Ukraine

https://krdo.com/politics/cnn-us-politics/2022/07/14/experts-document-alleged-crimes-against-humanity-committed-by-russian-forces-in-ukraine/ (https://krdo.com/politics/cnn-us-politics/2022/07/14/experts-document-alleged-crimes-against-humanity-committed-by-russian-forces-in-ukraine/)

A new report from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe found that patterns of violent acts by Russian forces in Ukraine meet the qualification of crimes against humanity, detailing horrific actions by Russian forces including the discovery of torture chambers at a summer camp in Bucha.

The new report released Thursday was the latest instance of groups documenting potential war crimes committed by Russian forces. The OSCE experts who put together the report traveled to Kyiv and met with Ukrainian authorities there as well as Bucha and Irpin, where they found “grave breaches” of international humanitarian law and the Geneva Convention.

The report “found credible evidence” that suggested “some patterns of violent acts which had been repeatedly documented during the conflict,” including “killing, rape abductions or massive deportations of civilians, qualified as a widespread or systematic attack against a civilian population.”

The OSCE mission that compiled the report wrote that 1.3 million Ukrainian citizens have been deported against their will to Russia and said there was evidence that tens of thousands of civilians had been detained at so-called filtration centers before being transported to Russian-controlled areas of eastern Ukraine.

US Ambassador to the OSCE Michael Carpenter said in a statement that the report “gives us an opportunity to pull back and document the unconscionable atrocity crimes, human rights violations, and abuses members of Russia’s forces have committed.”

This week’s report is the second that OSCE has released documenting atrocities committed against the Ukrainian population. In April, the group released its first report with similar findings of “credible evidence” suggesting violations of “even the most fundamental human rights.”

Together, both reports “comprise the most comprehensive accounting of evidence to date of Russia’s human rights abuses, international humanitarian law violations,” State Department spokesman Ned Price said in a statement after the second report’s release Thursday.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2022, 12:16:49 am
Video shows 'last minutes' of four-year-old girl's life before Russian missile attack

Officials said Kalibr cruise missiles fired from a Russian submarine in the Black Sea struck civilian buildings in Vinnytsia.

Thursday 14 July 2022  |  22:51, UK

(https://e3.365dm.com/22/07/2048x1152/skynews-vinnytsia-ukraine-lisa-dmitrieva_5834750.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20220714210550)

A four-year-old girl has been killed and her mother was seriously injured after Russian missiles struck a city in central Ukraine.

Another 22 people died, including two more children, and over 100 others were injured in the attack on Vinnytsia, which is 167 miles (268km) southwest of the capital Kyiv.

Ukraine's Ministry of Defence tweeted a video showing the "last minutes" of the life of Lisa Dmitrieva, who had Down's Syndrome.

"During the Russian terrorist attack on Vinnytsia on July 14, a little girl named Lisa died from the explosion," it tweeted.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-video-shows-last-minutes-of-young-girls-life-before-she-was-killed-in-russian-missile-attack-12652212
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 15, 2022, 01:15:35 am
SSDD. How about we de-fund gender studies, woke-ism, the people at the EPA writing another set of moved and even new goalposts, and use that money on the border?

There should be plenty of money we don't have to do both.

There are trainloads of Federal grants and programs that can be cut to secure our border, and if we got creative with the budget knife, we might be able to send the Ukraine the tools they need to keep us out of the next big war in Europe which will be inevitable if the current Russian Aggression succeeds.

Otherwise, sit back and watch as the US is invaded (a Democrat priority!) and the Ukraine is ground away like Eastern Europe by Hitler, and ballyhoo about peace in our time.

And make all those folks pay back their own student loans.

@Smokin Joe

EXCELLENT POST!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2022, 03:46:02 am
'They started hunting for me': Ukraine politicians face torture in Russian detention

Matt Murphy, BBC  |  2 hours ago

Hundreds of Ukrainians, including civilians and local politicians, are being subjected to forced detentions by Russian forces in occupied regions, the UN has told the BBC.


Officials said they had verified some 271 cases of forced detentions, with many of those seized facing torture.

Separately, a Ukrainian politician told the BBC that he was waterboarded after being abducted by the Russian military.

Russia's defence ministry did not reply to a request for comment on the claims.

Oleh Pylypenko, the elected head of the Shevchenkivska united territorial community in southern Ukraine, said he was seized by Russian paratroopers near Kherson on 10 March while delivering aid to constituents.  .  .

.  .  .  He was subsequently taken to an airfield, where he alleged that he was tortured for three days by Russian paratroopers.

"They didn't touch my driver," Mr Pylypenko recalled. "They were interrogating only me. They used physical violence, electric currents and poured cold water over me during freezing temperatures outside. I had frostbite on my feet, damaged ribs and internal organs."

The father of three added that paratroopers also beat him with a "rubber club" and kicked him until he passed out. He also alleged that he was electrocuted repeatedly by the Russian troops.

"On the third day of all this I was so badly beaten up that I unable to move [independently]. And I wouldn't have survived without my driver, who was helping me all the time," he said.

Mr Pylypenko said he later became the subject of a turf war between paratroopers - who wanted to execute him for his part in helping Ukrainian forces target their positions - and military police, who wanted him to use his position to help organise prisoner swaps.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62022450
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 15, 2022, 03:53:53 am
Russia targets remaining civilians in Mariupol

.  .  .  Local politicians who "don't want to work with the regime" or representatives from "pro-Ukrainian parties" are among the most frequent targets, he said.

Former police officers, Red Cross volunteers and civilians who held pro-Ukrainian views were also being targeted in the city, he said, with many being sent to former Ukrainian prisons and makeshift "filtration" camps.

Moscow's search for collaborators

Dmytro Vasyliev, a former speaker of the local council in the occupied southern city of Nova Khakova, told the BBC that he was arrested by Russian proxy forces from the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic in March.

Mr Vasyliev was held for 46 days before being released. During his detention he was repeatedly interrogated by balaclava-clad guards who pressured him to collaborate with the occupying force.  .  .

.  .  .  He said beatings by prison guards were a regular feature of life for those held at the detention centre in a former police station in Nova Kakhova.

"I wasn't hit. Other people were - I heard it every day, but not me," he recalled. "I spoke to two people. One was an elderly man who was once an ambulance driver in the Donbas military operation zone. He was hit."

Another man in the cell next to him was "beaten badly during the first few days" of his detention, he added.

Mr Vasyliev said in most cases there was no reason or purpose behind the beatings. They were carried out "just because", he said.

On his final day in detention, he said the prison officials revealed to him they were officers with Russia's internal security service, the FSB.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62022450
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 15, 2022, 02:30:45 pm
Jack Posobiec
@JackPosobiec

The US and Russia have signed an agreement for NASA and Roscosmos to resume shared flights to the International Space Station

10:12 AM · Jul 15, 2022 from Washington, DC·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 15, 2022, 02:43:13 pm
EU Stalls on Ukraine Aid as Fears Spike of Gas Crisis at Home
Bloomberg, Jul 15, 2022

*Bulk of emergency loans remains stuck over details of packages
*Commission warns of risk of economic fatigue among Europeans


The European Union is falling behind on its high-profile promises to deliver a substantial aid package to Ukraine at the same time the bloc is confronting the prospect of severe economic pain at home.

It was nearly two months ago when European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen proposed sending 9 billion euros ($9 billion) in emergency loans to Ukraine. So far, the bloc has only managed to agree on an initial tranche that covers a ninth of that target.

Heading into the traditionally sleepy summer period in Brussels, the EU will face new challenges as the specter of a total cut-off from Russian gas and the tightening of monetary policy risks pushing the region into a second recession in two years.

The European Commission also committed in May to finance the bulk of the reconstruction of the country, which could amount to $750 billion, according to Ukrainian government estimates. That could prove an even thornier debate for the EU as there’s no agreement over how to raise the funds. The commission’s offer scared some member states, wary of the massive effort required to rebuild the country and potential corruption issues, people familiar with the discussion said.

The impact of the war’s economic consequences is weighing on EU governments as they begin to worry about the risk of waning popular support for Kyiv in the coming months, particularly if energy becomes scarcer and pricier.

More;  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-15/eu-stalls-on-ukraine-aid-as-fears-spike-of-gas-crisis-at-home

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 15, 2022, 07:19:55 pm
Why not go to another thread to discuss those very important topics, as I am sure there must be dozens of them available, instead of wasting your time here on this thread, which is dedicated to the topic of Russia's invasion of Ukraine?

Because all of these topics are intertwined @Ghost Bear and go to the overarching questions folks are loathe to even ask, never mind debate: --- "What the hell is really going on, who's pulling the strings and what's in this sh*tshow for the US?"

Nothing about this "war" makes sense ----- not the timing, not the workaround sanctions, not the cash transfers to pay Ukrainian "nurses",  not the lack of oversight to monitor who may be buying our military equipment, not the EU's ongoing resistance to Ukraine's membership, not the US regime blaming Putin for its inflationary policies, energy crisis and supply shortages, not the open US bankbook filled with signed blank checks payable to Ukraine, not ignoring the rise of China in our own backyard while promoting an incessant focus on a border conflict 5,000 miles away involving two non-Nato countries.

If you don't want to discuss these isses, as we should, or ask the tough questions, as is our responsibility, then this is not a thread about the "War in Ukraine".  Rename the thread "Russia Bashing Only" ----- and be done with it.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on July 15, 2022, 08:14:14 pm
...

If you don't want to discuss these isses, as we should, or ask the tough questions, as is our responsibility, then this is not a thread about the "War in Ukraine".  Rename the thread "Russia Bashing Only" ----- and be done with it.

There you go again, showing your real feelings.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 15, 2022, 09:01:57 pm
There you go again, showing your real feelings.

My true feelings are these @Ghost Bear  ---- The day we become too afraid of the name calling to ask the tough questions, too lazy to do the research and connect the dots is the day we surrender our true security to a gaggle of international corruptocrats.

This my be okay with you ..... but it will never be with me.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on July 15, 2022, 09:07:53 pm
My true feelings are these @Ghost Bear  ---- The day we become too afraid of the name calling to ask the tough questions, too lazy to do the research and connect the dots is the day we surrender our true security to a gaggle of international corruptocrats.

This my be okay with you ..... but it will never be with me.

Thanks for calling me "afraid" and "lazy".  By the way, my true feelings are that Putin is an evil tyrant who should die hanging from a gibbet.   :seeya:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 15, 2022, 09:59:44 pm
Killer in the Kremlin: New book explores Vladimir Putin’s bloody reign

Atlantic Council by John Sweeney   7/15/2022

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/killer-in-the-kremlin-new-book-explores-vladimir-putins-bloody-reign/ (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/killer-in-the-kremlin-new-book-explores-vladimir-putins-bloody-reign/)

Twenty-two years ago, I walked into a hospital and saw an eight-year-old Chechen girl with a horribly burnt face, the only survivor of seven people in a car blown up in a Russian army attack on a refugee column. Just over two decades later in Ukraine, I saw countless cars with the word “Children” scrawled on them similarly shot up by Russian troops. War crimes on repeat.

I wrote my new book “Killer In The Kremlin” in an attempt to somehow make sense of the man behind the snuffing out of so many innocent lives. There is no doubt in my mind that the Moscow apartment bombings of September 1999 were a black flag operation by the Russian security services to make Vladimir Putin, an insipid spy, look strong. Three hundred people died in Moscow and cities in southern Russia. Putin blamed Chechen terrorists and launched the Second Chechen War in which around 80,000 died.

Putin subsequently invaded Georgia and hundreds more lives were lost. He helped Assad in Syria kill around half a million. In 2014, he invaded Crimea and eastern Ukraine leading to 15,000 deaths. The full-scale invasion of Ukraine this February has added to the butcher’s bill: maybe 40,000 Russian soldiers, 15,000 Ukrainian troops and many thousands of Ukrainian civilians have died so far. Leaving aside Syria, the master of the Kremlin is directly responsible for the deaths of some 150,000 people.

Widely suspected of having blown up the Moscow apartments in 1999, Putin is also closely linked to at least two more suspected black flag operations, the Moscow Theatre Siege of 2002 where around 170 people were killed, and the Beslan siege of 2004, which claimed 333 lives, many of them children. Common to all three mass killings inside Russia was a total lack of transparency about the investigations into what took place. Numerous journalists and politicians who asked difficult questions were poisoned or shot.

Yuri Shchekochikhin was a Russian MP and journalist investigating these mass killings. He had courage, tremendous energy, a nose for a story and, I’ve been told, a fondness for Armenian brandy. In January 2003, he told a friend, “For the first time in my life I feel frightened.”

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 15, 2022, 10:21:51 pm
If you watched the video, you'd realize that Biden/dim/RINO fixation on Putin, Russia and Ukraine is a diversion to give cover to our true most dangerous enemy......   The Chicoms.

I'd bet money you didn't watch it.   Calling TC a pompous fool, is about as damned silly thing as you've said yet.

Even without watching the video, I have always believed that Joe's fixation with Russia/Ukraine has been a diversion for his ties with China.  Joe also blames Putin for our sagging economy, lack of oil, empty shelves, and little green martians.

When Joe started stating that he believed that Russia was ready to escalate the war in Ukraine and getting ready to strike without much validity, I saw a red flag.  Then I realized that Joe had been giving Z $$$ to ramp up Ukraine's military months before Putin became more aggressive.  I saw it as Joe taunting Putin. 

Let me be clear before the arrows start heading my way; I am not condoning Putin's attacks on Ukraine anymore than I am condoning the reported attacks in the past of Ukraine against its own people.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 16, 2022, 01:18:25 am
U.K. aid worker held by Ukraine separatists reported dead

Star Advertiser 7/15/2022

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/15/breaking-news/u-k-aid-worker-held-by-ukraine-separatists-reported-dead/ (https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/15/breaking-news/u-k-aid-worker-held-by-ukraine-separatists-reported-dead/)

 A British aid worker detained by pro-Russia separatists in Ukraine has died in captivity, a separatist official and a U.K. charity involved with his case said Friday.

The British government summoned the Russian ambassador in London to demand an explanation.

Daria Morozova, the human rights ombudswoman for the Moscow-backed separatist leadership in the Donetsk region of eastern Ukraine, said a British “mercenary,” whom she named as Paul Urey, died in captivity on Sunday. She said he had died of chronic illnesses and stress.

The Presidium Network aid charity said Urey’s family had been notified of his death by British officials.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 16, 2022, 04:30:28 am
By the way, my true feelings are that Putin is an evil tyrant who should die hanging from a gibbet.   

Cool @Ghost Bear  But, I sent you a list of things that don't make sense about this border war.  Ping me when you'd like to discuss one on the list ... or one of your own.   To save time, here's the starter list:

Because all of these topics are intertwined @Ghost Bear and go to the overarching questions folks are loathe to even ask, never mind debate: --- "What the hell is really going on, who's pulling the strings and what's in this sh*tshow for the US?"

Nothing about this "war" makes sense ----- not the timing, not the workaround sanctions, not the cash transfers to pay Ukrainian "nurses",  not the lack of oversight to monitor who may be buying our military equipment, not the EU's ongoing resistance to Ukraine's membership, not the US regime blaming Putin for its inflationary policies, energy crisis and supply shortages, not the open US bankbook filled with signed blank checks payable to Ukraine, not ignoring the rise of China in our own backyard while promoting an incessant focus on a border conflict 5,000 miles away involving two non-Nato countries.



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2022, 12:19:17 pm
By the way, my true feelings are that Putin is an evil tyrant who should die hanging from a gibbet.

That is becoming more and more evident with each passing day.  The gulag archipelago is being reinstituted.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2022, 12:29:39 pm
Killer in the Kremlin: New book explores Vladimir Putin’s bloody reign

Atlantic Council by John Sweeney   7/15/2022

https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/killer-in-the-kremlin-new-book-explores-vladimir-putins-bloody-reign/ (https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/killer-in-the-kremlin-new-book-explores-vladimir-putins-bloody-reign/)

Twenty-two years ago, I walked into a hospital and saw an eight-year-old Chechen girl with a horribly burnt face, the only survivor of seven people in a car blown up in a Russian army attack on a refugee column. Just over two decades later in Ukraine  .  .  .

To find a Russian leader who has held power longer than Putin, you would have to go back to Tsar Alexander II.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2022, 12:31:18 pm
U.K. aid worker held by Ukraine separatists reported dead

Star Advertiser 7/15/2022

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/15/breaking-news/u-k-aid-worker-held-by-ukraine-separatists-reported-dead/ (https://www.staradvertiser.com/2022/07/15/breaking-news/u-k-aid-worker-held-by-ukraine-separatists-reported-dead/)

 A British aid worker detained by pro-Russia separatists in Ukraine has died in captivity

Beatings and torture have a tendency to do that.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2022, 12:32:34 pm
Cool @Ghost Bear  But, I sent you a list of things that don't make sense about this border war.

See?  There you go again.  This isn't a "border war".  It is a wholesale invasion of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2022, 12:37:26 pm
Nothing about this "war" makes sense -----

Actually, it is rather simple.  Ukraine has land and resources, and Putin wanted them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 16, 2022, 12:37:41 pm
Russia accused of shelling from captured Ukraine nuclear plant

https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/russia-accused-shelling-ukraine-nuclear-plant (https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/russia-accused-shelling-ukraine-nuclear-plant)

The president of Ukrainian nuclear agency Energoatom said the situation at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant was "extremely tense", with up to 500 Russian soldiers controlling the plant, which is Europe's largest.

Russia is using Europe's largest nuclear power plant as a base to store weapons including "missile systems" and shell the surrounding areas in Ukraine, an official with Kyiv's nuclear agency said on Friday, while nearly the entire country was placed on air raid alert.

The president of Ukrainian nuclear agency Energoatom said the situation at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant was "extremely tense", with up to 500 Russian soldiers controlling the plant.

"The occupiers bring their machinery there, including missile systems, from which they already shell the other side of the river Dnipro and the territory of Nikopol," Petro Kotin said in a televised interview, referring to the city across the water.

The plant in southwestern Ukraine has been under Russian control since the early weeks of Moscow's invasion, though it is still being operated by Ukrainian staff.

More: https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/russia-accused-shelling-ukraine-nuclear-plant (https://english.alaraby.co.uk/news/russia-accused-shelling-ukraine-nuclear-plant)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2022, 12:44:45 pm
Russia accused of shelling from captured Ukraine nuclear plant

Another day, another Putin war crime.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 16, 2022, 04:05:30 pm
Quote
Ukraine Fears Western Capitulation on Russia as Cracks Emerge
Jul 16, 2022

Russia is claiming two significant victories in its ongoing sanctions war with the West, after Canada agreed to waive restrictions on a key gas pipeline component and the European Union clarified its position on the standoff over the Kaliningrad exclave.

[...]

Last weekend brought the Canadian-German decision—supported by the U.S. in a statement issued on Monday—to waive sanctions and release a turbine needed for the Nord Stream 1 gas pipeline. The two-year waiver was described by President Volodymyr Zelensky as "weakness" and "absolutely unacceptable."

Merezhko—a member of Zelensky's Servant of the People party—shared a similar view from Kyiv. "To us it's a dangerous political precedent," he explained. "I'm also concerned that with autumn and winter coming some European countries might display more interest in finding a compromise with Russia regarding supply of Russian gas and oil."

"These countries might be even tempted to put political pressure on Ukraine to reach a 'compromise' with Russia, or they might deliberately delay the supply of heavy weaponry we need."

Some Russian sympathizers in Europe have long been skeptical of sanctions. This week, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban said the EU had "shot itself in the lungs" via its measures on Moscow.  Other leaders might feel emboldened to voice similar criticisms as the economic situation worsens across the continent.

Moscow is also claiming a win this week over Kaliningrad—Russia's European exclave wedged between Lithuania and the Baltic Sea. Lithuania recently restricted the road and rail transit of certain goods from Belarus and Russia to Kaliningrad in line with EU sanctions.

But following Russian threats and cyber attacks, the European Commission clarified this week that sanctioned Russian goods—excluding military, dual-use, and technology products—should not be stopped from traveling by rail. The Commission was reportedly under pressure from Germany to deliver this de-escalatory interpretation of EU sanctions.

Vilnius—long one of Europe's more hawkish nations on Russia—says it will respect the Commission's recommendation.


More:  https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-fears-western-capitulation-russia-cracks-emerge-1725028 

(https://i.imgur.com/cgHIgpW_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 16, 2022, 05:38:38 pm
That is becoming more and more evident with each passing day.  The gulag archipelago is being reinstituted.

@Hoodat

He is so evil I prefer to see him burned at the stake,but I'll take whatever I can get,as long as he quits stealing oxygen.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 16, 2022, 05:40:42 pm
To find a Russian leader who has held power longer than Putin, you would have to go back to Tsar Alexander II.

@Hoodat

AND......,we are all supposed to believe he keeps getting elected.

Sorta like Stalin and Khrushchev kept getting elected.

Not to mention "Slow Joe Biden",a man as evil as either of them,but much,MUCH stupider.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 16, 2022, 06:01:51 pm
Even without watching the video, I have always believed that Joe's fixation with Russia/Ukraine has been a diversion for his ties with China.  Joe also blames Putin for our sagging economy, lack of oil, empty shelves, and little green martians.

When Joe started stating that he believed that Russia was ready to escalate the war in Ukraine and getting ready to strike without much validity, I saw a red flag.  Then I realized that Joe had been giving Z $$$ to ramp up Ukraine's military months before Putin became more aggressive.  I saw it as Joe taunting Putin. 

Let me be clear before the arrows start heading my way; I am not condoning Putin's attacks on Ukraine anymore than I am condoning the reported attacks in the past of Ukraine against its own people.

None of this makes sense. You are assuming that Brandon can think and calculate. He try's to shake hands with people who aren't even there not exactly the action of someone who is really sharp.

Russia invaded Ukraine without provocation because Putin saw how incompetent Brandon and his admn. were in withdrawing from Afghanistan.

Putin with popular support of the Russian people has invaded several sovereign nations and butchered numerous people. Putin is a blood thirsty tyrant with no conscience. If he isn't stopped now he, or who ever comes after him, will continue invading neighboring countries. We have an incredible opportunity. The Ukrainians are more than willing to fight to preserve their freedom. All we have to do is supply them with the weapons.

The upside to supporting Ukraine and triggering the collapse of Russia that nobody talks about and which you isolationists should embrace is when Russia collapses the need for NATO ends. The threat is gone and we can pull out of Europe. I'm all for this. I believe deglobalization will be good for America. I just don't want to see us pull out and have to go back.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on July 16, 2022, 06:40:11 pm
Cool @Ghost Bear  But, I sent you a list of things that don't make sense about this border war.  Ping me when you'd like to discuss one on the list ... or one of your own.   To save time, here's the starter list:

I agree, there are many strange things happening in the world today which don't make any sense. But none of those things detract from the fact that Putin is an evil tyrant who has launched a war of conquest on another country, and that for his many crimes against humanity he should be hanged from the nearest lamp post.

If it was good enough for Mussolini, it is good enough for Putin.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 16, 2022, 07:40:43 pm
https://twitter.com/rhowardbrowne/status/1548107111061540864
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 16, 2022, 07:58:05 pm
Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu orders 'shock and awe' attacks on Ukraine in an attempt to stop Kyiv inflicting 'massive damage' with American HIMARS artillery

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11019883/Putins-defence-minister-Shoigu-demands-shock-awe-Ukraine-strike-victims-pictured.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11019883/Putins-defence-minister-Shoigu-demands-shock-awe-Ukraine-strike-victims-pictured.html)

•   Two days after 24 were killed in Vinnytsya, Shoigu called for more shock and awe

•   Kremlin defence minister claimed attacks will defend Russia against Kyiv rockets

•   New pictures of those slain in busy city centre include mothers and toddlers

•   Maxim Zharyi, seven, could only be identified via DNA after he was hit by rocket

Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu today gave the order to dramatically increase so-called shock and awe attacks on Ukraine.

He claimed Kremlin forces must 'exclude the possibility of the Kyiv regime inflicting massive rocket and artillery strikes on civilian infrastructure and residents of the Donbas and other regions,' according to reports in Moscow.

It followed an on-the-ground inspection by Putin's trusty defence minister - and a National Security Council meeting led by Vladimir Putin.

Shoigu 'gave instructions to further increase the actions of [military] groups in all operational areas', local reports stated.

It was unclear whether the minister's talks with military chiefs were in Russia or occupied Ukraine.

Shoigu's ominous threat came as more details emerged of the tragic victims of Thursday's sickening Russian strike on city Vinnytsya, western Ukraine.

The death toll now stands at 24.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 16, 2022, 08:37:58 pm
Putin's defence minister Sergei Shoigu orders 'shock and awe' attacks on Ukraine in an attempt to stop Kyiv inflicting 'massive damage' with American HIMARS artillery

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11019883/Putins-defence-minister-Shoigu-demands-shock-awe-Ukraine-strike-victims-pictured.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11019883/Putins-defence-minister-Shoigu-demands-shock-awe-Ukraine-strike-victims-pictured.html)

•   Two days after 24 were killed in Vinnytsya, Shoigu called for more shock and awe

•   Kremlin defence minister claimed attacks will defend Russia against Kyiv rockets

•   New pictures of those slain in busy city centre include mothers and toddlers

•   Maxim Zharyi, seven, could only be identified via DNA after he was hit by rocket

Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu today gave the order to dramatically increase so-called shock and awe attacks on Ukraine.

He claimed Kremlin forces must 'exclude the possibility of the Kyiv regime inflicting massive rocket and artillery strikes on civilian infrastructure and residents of the Donbas and other regions,' according to reports in Moscow.

It followed an on-the-ground inspection by Putin's trusty defence minister - and a National Security Council meeting led by Vladimir Putin.

Shoigu 'gave instructions to further increase the actions of [military] groups in all operational areas', local reports stated.

It was unclear whether the minister's talks with military chiefs were in Russia or occupied Ukraine.

Shoigu's ominous threat came as more details emerged of the tragic victims of Thursday's sickening Russian strike on city Vinnytsya, western Ukraine.

The death toll now stands at 24.

More at link.

All the more reason to increase the number of HIMRS to Ukraine and any other weapons they can use to destroy the invaders.

Kill the barbarians at the gate!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 16, 2022, 11:31:34 pm
Michael Tracey
@mtracey
Ukraine military intelligence says their new US missile systems will be used to strike Crimea. Was this part of the deal?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FX0DxWPVQAAyuzH?format=jpg&name=small)
4:05 PM · Jul 16, 2022
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 16, 2022, 11:47:21 pm
Actually, it is rather simple.  Ukraine has land and resources, and Putin wanted them.
As far as timing goes, after the Afghanistan debacle, it's pretty clear that the CinC and others are bloody incompetent, so I can't think of a better time to invade Ukraine than with a fustercluck at the helm in the US.

Trump would have handled the situation differently, but with Biden in office? No better time.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 17, 2022, 12:03:25 am

•   Two days after 24 were killed in Vinnytsya, Shoigu called for more shock and awe

•   Kremlin defence minister claimed attacks will defend Russia against Kyiv rockets

"Shock and awe" = "Targeting civilians".  Not sure how this will defend Russia against Kyiv rockets, but they have been employing this "shock and awe" tactic since Day One of their unprovoked invasion, long before Kyiv acquired any rockets.


Russian defence minister Sergei Shoigu today gave the order to dramatically increase so-called shock and awe attacks on Ukraine.

Looks like those Kyiv rockets are having an effect.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 17, 2022, 12:05:19 am
Michael Tracey
@mtracey
Ukraine military intelligence says their new US missile systems will be used to strike Crimea. Was this part of the deal?

Was it part of the deal?  No.  Should it have been part of the deal?  Absolutely.  Ukraine needs offensive capability to drive Russians out of Ukraine.  And this is the one thing that the Biden regime continues to deny them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 17, 2022, 12:09:28 am
None of this makes sense. You are assuming that Brandon can think and calculate. He try's to shake hands with people who aren't even there not exactly the action of someone who is really sharp.

Russia invaded Ukraine without provocation because Putin saw how incompetent Brandon and his admn. were in withdrawing from Afghanistan.

Putin with popular support of the Russian people has invaded several sovereign nations and butchered numerous people. Putin is a blood thirsty tyrant with no conscience. If he isn't stopped now he, or who ever comes after him, will continue invading neighboring countries. We have an incredible opportunity. The Ukrainians are more than willing to fight to preserve their freedom. All we have to do is supply them with the weapons.

The upside to supporting Ukraine and triggering the collapse of Russia that nobody talks about and which you isolationists should embrace is when Russia collapses the need for NATO ends. The threat is gone and we can pull out of Europe. I'm all for this. I believe deglobalization will be good for America. I just don't want to see us pull out and have to go back.

@bilo

Seems so obvious that  Stevie Wonder has to put on his shades to look at it.

I am thinking that Russia must have screwed the Biden family on some kickbacks,or Slow Joe would have never agreed to help Ukraine.

Wasn't Hunter on the board of a few Russian Corporations a couple of years ago,with a "No Show"  seat?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 17, 2022, 12:52:00 am
Moscow Journalist Requests Political Asylum In United States

Radio Free Europe 7/14/2022

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-journalist-seeks-us-asylum/31943308.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-journalist-seeks-us-asylum/31943308.html)

Russian journalist Pyotr Koronayev, who used to work for the Moscow-based Baza news website, and his wife, Tatyana Kulikova, have crossed the border from Mexico and requested political asylum in the United States.

Baza reported on July 14 that the couple was initially placed in an immigration detention center, but Koronayev was later released, while his wife remained in custody. It was not clear when the couple crossed the border.

According to Baza's report, Koronayev and Kulikova feared for their safety in Russia because of their public statements opposing Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine and their support of imprisoned opposition politician Aleksei Navalny.

More at link.

Quote
I was torn on this one whether to post here or in Immigration.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 17, 2022, 05:18:04 pm
@bilo

Seems so obvious that  Stevie Wonder has to put on his shades to look at it.

I am thinking that Russia must have screwed the Biden family on some kickbacks,or Slow Joe would have never agreed to help Ukraine.

Wasn't Hunter on the board of a few Russian Corporations a couple of years ago,with a "No Show"  seat?

I think everything went upside down for Brandon when Zelenskyy refused to flee at the start of the invasion. The Ukrainians didn't just surrender as all the "experts" expected and not only put up a good fight, but pushed the Russians back. Brandon's hands were tied at that point he had to start really supporting the Ukrainians or face al kinds of problems from his base. Now that everyone is losing interest we will see if Brandon gives offensive weapon systems to Ukraine, or just keeps them on the defensive. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 17, 2022, 05:21:17 pm
Moscow Journalist Requests Political Asylum In United States

Radio Free Europe 7/14/2022

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-journalist-seeks-us-asylum/31943308.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-journalist-seeks-us-asylum/31943308.html)

Russian journalist Pyotr Koronayev, who used to work for the Moscow-based Baza news website, and his wife, Tatyana Kulikova, have crossed the border from Mexico and requested political asylum in the United States.

Baza reported on July 14 that the couple was initially placed in an immigration detention center, but Koronayev was later released, while his wife remained in custody. It was not clear when the couple crossed the border.

According to Baza's report, Koronayev and Kulikova feared for their safety in Russia because of their public statements opposing Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine and their support of imprisoned opposition politician Aleksei Navalny.

More at link.

This is an actual case that our asylum system was set up for. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 17, 2022, 07:41:13 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aqGEQgQ_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 18, 2022, 05:36:02 am
How Russia's current war in Ukraine echoes its Crimean War of the 1850s

Greg Myre  |  July 13, 2022  |  5:00 AM ET


KYIV, Ukraine — Here's a widely held view of Russia's war: Russia had a more powerful army and expected a quick victory. It didn't think Western powers would intervene. Yet a poorly planned military campaign led to a fight much tougher than expected.

To be clear, we're not talking about Russia's current war in Ukraine. We're talking about Russia's war in Crimea in the 1850s.

Even if you're not familiar with the Crimean War, you know some of the monumental figures who emerged from it, like Florence Nightingale and Leo Tolstoy.

But this isn't just history. That long-ago conflict is still relevant today. For starters, when Russia fought the Ottoman Empire in 1853, the focal point was Crimea — the very same territory Russian President Vladimir Putin seized in 2014 when he first invaded Ukraine.

During the first Crimean War, The Economist magazine — the same one that's still going strong — wrote a scathing piece in 1854 on Russia and its leader, Czar Nicholas I.

"That vast state is in great measure composed of spoils which she has torn from surrounding nations," The Economist wrote. "Her frontier provinces are filled with injured, discontented hostile populations ... many of whom wait, with patience and desire, the blessed day of emancipation and revenge."

Sounds a lot like Ukraine today.  .  .

https://www.npr.org/2022/07/13/1106123496/russia-ukraine-invasion-crimean-war-history
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 18, 2022, 11:51:44 am
HIMARS vs. Russian Logistics

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52012 (https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52012)

Following the Russian capture of Severodonetsk, the Russo-Ukranian War seems to have gone into an operational pause. Ukraine has now received and fielded its first HIMARS multiple rocket launch systems from the U.S. This video makes the case that that’s very bad news for Russian logistics.

Some takeaways:

•  HIMARS can hit targets at 80kms with high accuracy, far superior to Russia’s Uragan system (40km and less accurate) and Smersh systems.

•  The high accuracy makes 6 HIMARS missiles equal to 70 rounds of Russian artillery.

•  Systems move at 90kph.

•  Five minute reload time.

•  Crew of three.

•  “Just a few highmars can cut off a 100 kilometer long front line from supply and control.”

•  “Ukraine has already been able to destroy more than 20 large ammunition depots and several command posts.”

All well and good, but I have some caveats with the contention that HIMARS can drive the enemy before it and hear the lamentations of their women.

•  So far, Ukraine has fielded precisely four HIMARS. Four may be able to change the course of a battle, but certainly not a war.

•  There’s no reason to believe that Russia can’t adapt by dispersing ordinance to smaller and less dense ammo depots, or by restarting air sorties (which they seem to have largely abandoned) to hit HIMARS. Knowing the Russian military, the rate of adaptation will be very slow, but it’s not beyond their abilities.

While HIMARS help? Yes. Will they completely destroy Russian command and logistics? Color me very skeptical.

More: https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52012 (https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXjxXUQVO10 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXjxXUQVO10)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 18, 2022, 01:12:21 pm
Russia has lost 30% of its forces with 50,000 soldiers dead or injured and nearly 1,700 of Putin's tanks destroyed, defence chief reveals

By JESSICA WARREN and LIZZIE MAY FOR MAILONLINE
17 July 2022

Russia has lost 30 per cent of its forces with 50,000 soldiers dead or injured and almost 1,700 of Putin's tanks have been destroyed, the UK's Chief of the Defence Staff has revealed.

Head of the Armed Forces Admiral Sir Tony Radakin has said Vladimir Putin has 'already lost the Ukraine war', with nearly 4,000 armoured fighting vehicles belonging to Russia having also been ruined.

He told BBC One's Sunday Morning programme that Ukraine plans on restoring 'the whole of their territory', adding that speculation Putin could be assassinated is 'wishful thinking'.

'What you're seeing is a Russia, if we focus on the Donbas, that is less than 10 per cent of the territory of Ukraine and we are approaching 150 days,' he said.

'Russia is struggling to take that territory, and it is struggling because of the courage and determination of the Ukrainian armed forces.'

The UK Chief of the Defence Staff added that Ukraine's army 'absolutely' believes it will win the war in the face of a 'struggling' Russia that has 'lost more than 30 per cent of its land combat effectiveness'.

Sir Tony also warned that despite the huge losses in soldiers, tanks and armoured fighting vehicles, Russia was still 'the biggest threat' the UK faces.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11021889/Head-Armed-forces-Sir-Tony-Radakin-says-Putin-lost-Ukraine-war-Video.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 19, 2022, 02:51:51 pm
EU to soften sanctions on Russian banks to allow food trade
Financial Post, Jul 19, 2022, Reuters

BRUSSELS — The European Union will amend its sanctions on Moscow on Wednesday by allowing the unfreezing of some funds of top Russian banks that may be required to ease bottlenecks in the global trade of food and fertilizers, a draft document showed.

Under the changed regulation, which is expected to be adopted by EU envoys on Wednesday, EU nations will be able to unfreeze previously blocked economic resources owned by top Russian lenders VTB, Sovcombank, Novikombank, Otkritie FC Bank, VEB, Promsvyazbank and Bank Rossiya, the document said.


https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/eu-to-soften-sanctions-on-russian-banks-to-allow-food-trade
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 19, 2022, 02:57:15 pm
Ukraine war: First lady in US for high-level meetings
BBC, Jul 19, 2022

Ukraine's first lady, Olena Zelenska, is in the US for a series of high-level meetings and an address to Congress.

Her visit comes four months after her husband, President Volodymyr Zelensky, made a virtual speech to Congress, pressing for more military equipment.

Ms Zelenska met Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Monday and is due to hold talks with her counterpart Jill Biden on Tuesday, the White House said.

She is due to deliver remarks to lawmakers on Capitol Hill on Wednesday.

Ms Zelenska has no official portfolio in the Ukrainian government. But after nearly five months of Russia's war in Ukraine, Kyiv is keen to seek more military aid and political backing from the US.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62221353
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 19, 2022, 03:11:55 pm
Ukraine war: First lady in US for high-level meetings
BBC, Jul 19, 2022

Ukraine's first lady, Olena Zelenska, is in the US for a series of high-level meetings and an address to Congress.



Is that what they call grifting now days?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 19, 2022, 05:06:33 pm
Putin humiliated as rebelling Chechen soldiers join fight against Russia

Express by Aliss Higham, Francesca Edwards 7/19/2022

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1642547/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-tayyip-erdogan-crisis-russia-nuclear-weapon-baltic-sea-updates (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1642547/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-tayyip-erdogan-crisis-russia-nuclear-weapon-baltic-sea-updates)

CHECHEN soldiers have joined Ukraine in the fight against Russia, humiliating despot Vladimir Putin.

Chechen forces have joined the valiant Ukrainian defenders to help see off the Russians. Some Chechens are fighting for Russia: Kadyrovite forces have fought alongside Moscow’s soldiers, while the Dzhokhar Dudayev Battalion and the Sheikh Mansur Battalion have fought alongside the Ukrainian defenders.

Some have long been involved in the conflict in Ukraine’s contested eastern areas, but Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov deployed more men to Ukraine at the start of the invasion.

One unnamed soldier told NPR that he was fighting in Ukraine because he believes the “evil” of Russia should be destroyed.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 19, 2022, 05:10:55 pm
Hungary suddenly announced that it’s not against transit of weapons to Ukraine

https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/07/19/hungary-suddenly-announced-that-its-not-against-transit-of-weapons-to-ukraine/ (https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/07/19/hungary-suddenly-announced-that-its-not-against-transit-of-weapons-to-ukraine/)

On 19 July, during a meeting with Lviv Mayor Andrii Sadovyi, Hungary’s Deputy Foreign Minister Levente Magyar stated that his country is ready to allow the transit to Ukraine through their territory of all the assistance provided by other countries to Ukraine, including the military one, according to the Lviv City Council.

According to earlier reports, Hungary had denied the supplies of Western weapons to Ukraine through the Hungarian territory not to provoke Russia’s attacks on ethnic Hungarians of Ukraine’s Zakarpattia Oblast.

    “Hungary itself won’t supply its weapons, this is our strategic position. However, 3rd countries can use our territory,” the Hungarian Deputy FM said today, the Lviv City Council reports.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 19, 2022, 05:16:38 pm
Strategic Repercussions Of Russia-Ukraine Conflict – OpEd

Eurasia Review by Dr. Rahat Iqbal

https://www.eurasiareview.com/19072022-strategic-repercussions-of-russia-ukraine-conflict-oped/ (https://www.eurasiareview.com/19072022-strategic-repercussions-of-russia-ukraine-conflict-oped/)

The history of Russia-Ukraine strained relations dates back to the seizure of Ukraine by the Russian empire during the 17th century. Due to its geographic significance, Ukraine has always remained an attraction for many conquerors including Mongols, Polish and Lithuanian forces for several centuries. It formally became part of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic (USSR) in 1922 after the communist revolution of 1917 until the disintegration of USSR in 1991.

Russia and Ukraine, two independent states are currently at war. Historically, the support of Russia existed more in the eastern side of the country as compared to the western coast primarily due to ethnic linkages. The eastern coast of Ukraine remained under Russian rule earlier than the western coast of the state. These ethnic and external linkages always posed challenge towards maintaining cohesion in Ukraine. Furthermore, the Russo-Ukraine crisis resurfaced after the annexation of Crimea by the Russian forces in 2014. The republic of Crimea wished to seek more support from the European Union. In order to follow suit, the Crimean nation protested to overthrow the leadership of pro-Russian president, Viktor Yanukovych.

Ukraine became the third-largest nuclear weapon country with the disintegration of USSR. Budapest Memorandum of security assurance signed on December 5, 1994, by the US, United Kingdom (UK) and Russia vowed to be the key players in providing and ensuring security to Ukraine in the future both internally and externally, if required. As a newly emerged independent state, it also aspired to seek the international recognition and doing so, Ukraine was asked to become a non-nuclear-weapon state. Additionally, in order to pursue the membership of the Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), it was also mandatory for Ukraine to give up all its nuclear arsenal. Hence, abiding by the Memorandum, it joined NPT as a non-nuclear weapons state in 1994.

While agreeing to the Budapest Memorandum and giving up all its nuclear stockpile, Ukraine expected US intervention as a legal compulsion or a guarantee, when it comes to states survival and sovereignty. Ukraine pledged to surrender all its nuclear weapons stockpile in the exchange for economic assistance, political and security assurance.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 19, 2022, 05:17:27 pm
Turkey meeting with Russia and Iran today.

Has announced they will stop buying oil with $USD....   :pondering:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 19, 2022, 08:49:40 pm
Russian lawmakers blame losses on experimental Ukrainian super-soldiers

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
July 19, 2022

Russia on Monday outrageously claimed that its massive army has failed to deliver Ukraine to President Vladimir Putin because it is fighting against experimental super-soldiers, turned into “cruel killing machines” by US studies.

Two Russian lawmakers told reporters this week that the Kremlin is investigating the blood of Ukrainian prisoners of war, and has found “evidence” of experimentation, Russian outlet Kommersant reported.

Russian Senator Konstantin Kosachev told the outlet that the blood of Ukrainian prisoners contained traces of pathogens he claimed were “atypical” for Ukraine.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/19/russia-blames-losses-on-experimental-ukrainian-super-soldiers/



:mauslaff:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 20, 2022, 12:16:22 am
EU to soften sanctions on Russian banks to allow food trade
Financial Post, Jul 19, 2022, Reuters

BRUSSELS — The European Union will amend its sanctions on Moscow on Wednesday by allowing the unfreezing of some funds of top Russian banks that may be required to ease bottlenecks in the global trade of food and fertilizers, a draft document showed.

Under the changed regulation, which is expected to be adopted by EU envoys on Wednesday, EU nations will be able to unfreeze previously blocked economic resources owned by top Russian lenders VTB, Sovcombank, Novikombank, Otkritie FC Bank, VEB, Promsvyazbank and Bank Rossiya, the document said.


https://financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/eu-to-soften-sanctions-on-russian-banks-to-allow-food-trade

@Right_in_Virginia

Ok,they CAN,but WHY would they want to?

Is it because they hate the idea of winning and want to cheer to Neo-Soviets up?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 20, 2022, 12:19:07 am
Turkey meeting with Russia and Iran today.

Has announced they will stop buying oil with $USD....   :pondering:
That threatens reserve currency status for the dollar.  Not good.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 20, 2022, 12:19:49 am
Turkey meeting with Russia and Iran today.

Has announced they will stop buying oil with $USD....   :pondering:

 **nononono*
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 20, 2022, 08:58:56 pm
Ukraine graft concerns resurface as Russia war goes on
By Associated Press   
July 20, 2022 3:44pm
Quote
WASHINGTON — Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky’s dismissal of senior officials is casting an inconvenient light on an issue that the Biden administration has largely ignored since the outbreak of war with Russia: Ukraine’s history of rampant corruption and shaky governance.

As it presses ahead with providing tens of billions of dollars in military, economic and direct financial support aid to Ukraine and encourages its allies to do the same, the Biden administration is now once again grappling with longstanding worries about Ukraine’s suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of American aid.

Those issues, which date back decades and were not an insignificant part of former President Donald Trump’s first impeachment, had been largely pushed to the back burner in the immediate run-up to Russia’s invasion and during the first months of the conflict as the U.S. and its partners rallied to Ukraine’s defense.

But Zelensky’s weekend firings of his top prosecutor, intelligence chief and other senior officials have resurfaced those concerns and may have inadvertently given fresh attention to allegations of high-level corruption in Kyiv made by one outspoken U.S. lawmaker. ...
Associated Press via NY Post (https://nypost.com/2022/07/20/ukraine-graft-concerns-resurface-as-russia-war-goes-on/)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 21, 2022, 04:26:33 am
Ukraine graft concerns resurface as Russia war goes on
By Associated Press   
July 20, 2022 3:44pmAssociated Press via NY Post (https://nypost.com/2022/07/20/ukraine-graft-concerns-resurface-as-russia-war-goes-on/)
Quote
the Biden administration has largely ignored since the outbreak of war with Russia: Ukraine’s history of rampant corruption and shaky governance.

Ignored it?  Heck, they're counting on it.


Quote
As it presses ahead with providing tens of billions of dollars in military, economic and direct financial support aid to Ukraine and encourages its allies to do the same, the Biden administration is now once again grappling with longstanding worries about Ukraine’s suitability as a recipient of massive infusions of American aid.

Aid that Ukraine never asked for.  Since Day One, they have asked for one thing and one thing only - weapons.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 21, 2022, 04:28:04 am
Ukraine's First Lady asks US Congress for weapons

5 hours ago


Ukraine's First Lady Olena Zelenska has asked US Congress for more help in fighting the war against Russia.

During a passionate speech in Washington, she said: "I am asking for weapons. Weapons that will not be used to wage a war on somebody else’s land but to protect one’s home."

It comes after Russia said its war aims had now expanded beyond eastern Ukraine. Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov implied it was in response to the West supplying longer-range weapons.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-62244874
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 21, 2022, 01:40:41 pm
Aid that Ukraine never asked for.  Since Day One, they have asked for one thing and one thing only - weapons.

Wrong. 

Zelensky's asked for billions/month (receiving hundreds of millions from us) to cover their budger shortfall so they can continue to pay the salaries of nurses and government administrative workers.

Ukraine needs $9 billion in foreign aid per month, top Zelensky adviser says
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/ukraine-needs-9-billion-in-foreign-aid-per-month-top-zelensky-adviser-says

Biden tells Zelensky US will give Ukraine $500 million in budget aid
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/600362-biden-tells-zelensky-us-will-give-ukraine-500-million-in-budget-aid/

And don't forget, Zelensky has put the world on notice to set side $750 billion for the reconstruction of The Ukraine.

Ukraine lays out $750B ‘recovery plan’ for postwar future
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-putin-switzerland-22337ad38f74d18d4dae63952a7f433e
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 21, 2022, 02:28:58 pm
Russian soldiers are put 'on a direct path to a body bag' with only FIVE DAYS' training for recruits and some sent to Ukraine without knowing how to use a machine gun

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
21 July 2022

Russian soldiers are being put 'on a direct path to a body bag,' a military analyst has said, with one soldier claiming he was given just five days of training before being sent to fight on the front lines in Ukraine.

The soldier, named only as Ivan to protect his identity, said in some cases his comrades were being shipped off to fight without even knowing how to use a machine gun, according to The Moscow Times.

The report is the latest sign of Russia's increasing desperation to crush Ukraine's fierce resistance that has taken the Kremlin by surprise, with some estimates suggesting President Vladimir Putin has seen more than 30,000 of his troops killed.

When the invasion began on February 24, Moscow brazenly believed its forces would sweep to victory and depose Kyiv's government in a matter of days. Instead, Russia has been dragged into a protracted and costly conflict, with no end in sight.

Independent military analyst Pavel Luzin offered a damning assessment of Russia's military when told of Ivan's claim that he was given less than a week of training.

'A week [of training] is nothing — for a soldier, it is a direct path to a hospital or a body bag,' Luzin told The Moscow Times on Thursday.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11034705/Russian-soldiers-direct-path-body-bag-recruits-given-FIVE-DAYS-training.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 21, 2022, 04:03:52 pm


Ignored it?  Heck, they're counting on it.


Aid that Ukraine never asked for.  Since Day One, they have asked for one thing and one thing only - weapons.

@Hoodat

Yeah,but there is damn little graft to be pulled from that. Maybe a few percentage points for the weapons manufactures,but it pretty much ends there,and they are NOT coughing up millions.

The REAL money is in stealing the cash.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 21, 2022, 04:37:57 pm
Russian soldiers are being put 'on a direct path to a body bag,' a military analyst has said, with one soldier claiming he was given just five days of training before being sent to fight on the front lines in Ukraine.

This is a good indication that although Ukraine has lost territory the cost to the Russians is to great to be sustained. Add in the weapons that are getting to the battle and Ukraine has a chance to repel the invaders. It all hinges on continuing to support Ukraine with the weapons they need.

I would think at some point the losses for Russia would create a backlash against their aggression, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case.
















Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 21, 2022, 04:41:58 pm
@Hoodat

Yeah,but there is damn little graft to be pulled from that. Maybe a few percentage points for the weapons manufactures,but it pretty much ends there,and they are NOT coughing up millions.

The REAL money is in stealing the cash.

One thing to consider is the flow of the money. The USA is giving Ukraine billions and Ukraine is using the money to buy weapons which goes to the businesses that make the weapons. These same businesses higher lobbyists who then direct money to campaigns.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 21, 2022, 04:44:18 pm
Russian soldiers are being put 'on a direct path to a body bag,' a military analyst has said, with one soldier claiming he was given just five days of training before being sent to fight on the front lines in Ukraine.

This is a good indication that although Ukraine has lost territory the cost to the Russians is to great to be sustained. Add in the weapons that are getting to the battle and Ukraine has a chance to repel the invaders. It all hinges on continuing to support Ukraine with the weapons they need.

I would think at some point the losses for Russia would create a backlash against their aggression, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case.

@bilo

It SHOULD have,and WOULD have if Russia were still a democracy as it was under the old,fat guy.

Then Putin/Biden took over and gradually turned it into a dictatorship once again,and people are afraid to speak out.

This will continue until the situation gets so bad that the security of Russia from invasion by a foreign nation gets so bad that the creatures in the Politburo "man up",dump Putin,and call their troops back to Russia while they still have troops that will obey their orders.

I hope that is what happens because if it doesn't,a second Russian revolution is inevitable,and nobody sane wants to see that happen.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 21, 2022, 07:39:57 pm
Zelensky's asked for billions/month (receiving hundreds of millions from us) to cover their budger shortfall so they can continue to pay the salaries of nurses and government administrative workers.

Ukraine needs $9 billion in foreign aid per month, top Zelensky adviser says
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/ukraine-needs-9-billion-in-foreign-aid-per-month-top-zelensky-adviser-says

Biden tells Zelensky US will give Ukraine $500 million in budget aid
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/600362-biden-tells-zelensky-us-will-give-ukraine-500-million-in-budget-aid/

And don't forget, Zelensky has put the world on notice to set side $750 billion for the reconstruction of The Ukraine.

Ukraine lays out $750B ‘recovery plan’ for postwar future
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-putin-switzerland-22337ad38f74d18d4dae63952a7f433e

US to provide $100 million support to Ukrainian farmers – Agrarian Ministry
Jul 20, 2022

The United States has established the $100 million Agriculture Resilience Initiative (AGRI) to help the Ukrainian agricultural sector amid the worsening of the global food crisis exacerbated by Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

"The initiative will increase Ukrainian farmers’ access to critical agricultural inputs including seeds, fertilizer, equipment, and pesticides, enhance Ukrainian infrastructure capacity and capability to efficiently export agricultural goods, increase farmers’ access to financing, and expand the capacity of Ukrainian businesses to dry and temporarily store, and process agricultural commodities," USAID said.

According to the Ministry of Agrarian Policy, USAID will work with farmers' associations to adapt granaries to their individual needs, which will allow them to apply effective technologies where necessary.

"USAID seeks to raise an additional $150 million for the initiative from fellow donors and the private sector with an overall target of $250 million. AGRI-Ukraine builds on a range of support USAID is providing to Ukraine’s agriculture sector in the wake of Russia’s full scale invasion, including providing over 8,000 Ukrainian farmers with seeds, fertilizers, pesticides, and more, reaching approximately 14% of the country’s registered agriculture enterprises, to help them deliver this year’s harvest despite the devastation caused by Russia’s invasion," USAID added.

https://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/847299.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 21, 2022, 09:39:59 pm
Air Force open to giving A-10s to Ukraine in latest move to get rid of them

American Military News by Ryan Morgan   July 21, 2022

https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/07/air-force-open-to-giving-a-10s-to-ukraine-in-latest-move-to-get-rid-of-them/ (https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/07/air-force-open-to-giving-a-10s-to-ukraine-in-latest-move-to-get-rid-of-them/)

Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall indicated on Wednesday that he would be open to giving retirement-bound aging A-10 Thunderbolt IIs in the U.S. fleet to Ukraine to assist in its ongoing war against invading Russian forces.

During an interview on the topic of Air Force modernization efforts during the Aspen Security Forum on Wednesday, Kendall was asked about recent comments that modernization “means letting go of familiar systems and concepts.” When the Washington Post’s David Ignatius asked Kendall what specific systems he was referring to letting go of, Kendall immediately brought up “the venerable A-10.”

“The venerable A-10 — which is an Army officer I supported for many many decades — actually um is not a system that we’re going to need against the kinds of adversaries where we’re concerned about most now.”

When Ignatius then asked about transferring retiring A-10s to Ukraine, Kendall said “General Brown addressed that question this morning about what fighters Ukraine might be interested in.”

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 21, 2022, 10:26:56 pm
Wrong. 

Zelensky's asked for billions/month (receiving hundreds of millions from us) to cover their budger shortfall so they can continue to pay the salaries of nurses and government administrative workers.

Ukraine needs $9 billion in foreign aid per month, top Zelensky adviser says
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/ukraine-needs-9-billion-in-foreign-aid-per-month-top-zelensky-adviser-says

Biden tells Zelensky US will give Ukraine $500 million in budget aid
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/600362-biden-tells-zelensky-us-will-give-ukraine-500-million-in-budget-aid/

And don't forget, Zelensky has put the world on notice to set side $750 billion for the reconstruction of The Ukraine.

Ukraine lays out $750B ‘recovery plan’ for postwar future
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-putin-switzerland-22337ad38f74d18d4dae63952a7f433e

Conspicuously missing from each of those links is the part where Zelenskiy asked us for the money.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 21, 2022, 10:34:47 pm
US to provide $100 million support to Ukrainian farmers – Agrarian Ministry
Jul 20, 2022

The United States has established the $100 million Agriculture Resilience Initiative (AGRI) to help the Ukrainian agricultural sector amid the worsening of the global food crisis exacerbated by Russia's full-scale invasion of Ukraine.

"The initiative will increase Ukrainian farmers’ access to critical agricultural inputs including seeds, fertilizer, equipment, and pesticides, enhance Ukrainian infrastructure capacity and capability to efficiently export agricultural goods, increase farmers’ access to financing, and expand the capacity of Ukrainian businesses to dry and temporarily store, and process agricultural commodities," USAID said.  .  .  .

Ukraine didn't ask for this.  They asked for weapons to stop Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 21, 2022, 11:11:41 pm
Ukraine didn't ask for this.  They asked for weapons to stop Russia.

@Hoodat

Yup! This has to do with some congresscriter having a donor who owns or controls a fertilizer company,tractor supply company,etc,etc,etc. It's a way for them to skim millions from the taxpayers without attracting much attention.

BTW,WHO is promoting this in the House and the Senate?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 21, 2022, 11:48:48 pm
Ukraine didn't ask for this.  They asked for weapons to stop Russia.

Ukraine needs $9 billion in foreign aid per month, top Zelensky adviser says
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/ukraine-needs-9-billion-in-foreign-aid-per-month-top-zelensky-adviser-says
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 21, 2022, 11:49:47 pm
@Hoodat

BTW,WHO is promoting this in the House and the Senate?

You and your Cold War Veterans.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 21, 2022, 11:52:30 pm
Ukraine needs $9 billion in foreign aid per month, top Zelensky adviser says
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/foreign/ukraine-needs-9-billion-in-foreign-aid-per-month-top-zelensky-adviser-says

Again, the crucial thing missing from that story is the part where Ukraine asked the US for the money.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 21, 2022, 11:55:11 pm
You and your Cold War Veterans.

Yeah, right.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 22, 2022, 01:19:39 am
My son served on fast attack subs for 6 yrs. He said that the Cold War never ended for our sub fleet.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 22, 2022, 02:28:19 am
Russia 'looting' steel bound for Europe and UK, says Metinvest boss

Simon Jack  |  3 hours ago

Russia is looting $600m (£500m) worth of steel from plants and ports in Ukraine, according to the boss of Ukraine's largest steel firm Metinvest.


The firm owns the Azovstal plant that became the last holdout of Ukrainian soldiers and civilians during the devastation of the city of Mariupol.

Chief executive Yuriy Ryzhenkov said steel was being transferred to Russia and sold on, some of which had been bound for customers in the UK.

The Kremlin has not commented.

Metinvest is headquartered in Mariupol, a centre for trade and manufacturing, which after almost three months of relentless assault, fell to Russia in May.

Mr Ryzhenkov said 300 employees and 200 employees' relatives were killed in the assault on the Azovstal plant, which together with its sister plant Ilyich accounted for 40% of all Ukraine steel production.

Thousands of tonnes of steel had been paid for by European customers, including some in the UK.

He said that public sources and the company's own informants reported the steel was being transferred to Russia and sold in internal markets or to countries in Africa and Asia.

"What they're doing is basically looting. They're stealing not only our products, but also some of those products already belong to the European customers. So basically, they're not only stealing from us, they're stealing from the Europeans as well," Mr Ryzhenkov told the BBC.  .  .

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-62252704



I wonder how the DPR leaders feel about Russia looting Donetsk steel.




Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 22, 2022, 02:35:34 am
You and your Cold War Veterans.

@Right_in_Virginia

ESAD!

What *I* am promoting is weapons and food transfers to Ukraine in order to help them destroy the evil monster once known openly as the "Soviet Union"

You,on the other hand,are a surrender monkey whose motto seems to be "better red than dead".

BTW,I am a "Hot War Veteran" in more than one country,thank you very much!

How many wars have YOU  fought in?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 22, 2022, 02:36:37 am
Russian forces destroy schools in eastern Ukraine

15h ago  |  07:03


People are being urged to evacuate as Russian forces have destroyed schools in Kramatorsk and Kostiantynivka, in eastern Ukraine, according to the governor of the Donetsk region.

Pavlo Kyrylenko reported two schools have been devastated by a Russian military strike while the industrial area of Kramatorsk and central Bakhmut have also been shelled. A house has also been damaged.

The Ukrainian politician said: "Russia is purposefully destroying our cities and villages. Do not put yourself in danger - evacuate."

There are no reports of casualties or deaths at this time.

(https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-1979e2a9-e7b5-4307-ad24-c96cd182d440.jpg)

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-putins-forces-close-in-on-major-power-plant-as-russia-says-it-will-expand-its-goals-12541713?postid=4192987#liveblog-body
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 22, 2022, 02:39:08 am
Russian forces destroy schools in eastern Ukraine

15h ago  |  07:03


People are being urged to evacuate as Russian forces have destroyed schools in Kramatorsk and Kostiantynivka, in eastern Ukraine, according to the governor of the Donetsk region.

Pavlo Kyrylenko reported two schools have been devastated by a Russian military strike while the industrial area of Kramatorsk and central Bakhmut have also been shelled. A house has also been damaged.

The Ukrainian politician said: "Russia is purposefully destroying our cities and villages. Do not put yourself in danger - evacuate."

There are no reports of casualties or deaths at this time.

(https://liveblog.digitalimages.sky/lc-images-sky/lcimg-1979e2a9-e7b5-4307-ad24-c96cd182d440.jpg)

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-putins-forces-close-in-on-major-power-plant-as-russia-says-it-will-expand-its-goals-12541713?postid=4192987#liveblog-body

@Hoodat

BTW,am I the only one that believes there are damn few people in Ukraine sending their children off to school these days?

MY best guess is everybody it trying to keep their families together as much as possible in case they all have to run.

Providing,of course,that they don't have some safe place to send their children off to until after this thing ends.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 22, 2022, 02:41:35 am
My son served on fast attack subs for 6 yrs. He said that the Cold War never ended for our sub fleet.

@Elderberry

And it never will unless it turns "hot for real".
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 22, 2022, 02:42:57 am
Ukrainian boy, 7, left with severe burns and shrapnel in his head after Russian missile strike

At least 24 people were killed in the attack in the city of Vinnytsia, including four-year-old Liza Dmytrieva.

Olive Enokido-Lineham  |  Thursday 21 July  |  2022 21:27, UK

A seven-year-old Ukrainian boy has been left with severe burns across his body and shrapnel in his head following a Russian missile strike.

On Wednesday, Ukraine's foreign affairs minister Emine Dzheppar shared an image of Roman, who was injured on 14 July after Russian missiles struck the central city of Vinnytsia.

Ms Dzheppar said the child had severe burns covering almost half of his body - 45%.

The image shows Roman in a hospital bed, with bandages wrapped around his whole head and covering his arm.

Last Thursday, cruise missiles hit an office block and damaged nearby residential buildings, causing a huge blaze which spread to a car park and set vehicles alight.

The strikes on Vinnytsia were launched by a Russian submarine and were the latest incidents to take civilian lives in Ukraine.

At least 24 people were killed in the attack, including two boys aged seven and eight, and more than 200 were wounded.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukrainian-boy-7-left-with-severe-burns-and-shrapnel-in-his-head-after-russian-missile-strike-12656520



Evil.  Pure evil.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 22, 2022, 03:13:01 am
https://twitter.com/ZelenskaUA/status/1549812469467680769
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 22, 2022, 04:30:43 am
@Right_in_Virginia

ESAD!

What *I* am promoting is weapons and food transfers to Ukraine in order to help them destroy the evil monster once known openly as the "Soviet Union"

How many wars have YOU  fought in?

Nope.  You gleefully jumped back into the Cold War.  You are still too afraid to ask the tough questions for this 21st Century shi*tshow  ---- so you own it --- ALL of it --- and you always will.

BTW @sneakypete  ....  until you can name the war you fought in and won, spare me your know-it-all attitude.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on July 22, 2022, 04:36:00 am
Nope.  You gleefully jumped back into the Cold War.  You are still too afraid to ask the tough questions for this 21st Century shi*tshow  ---- so you own it --- ALL of it --- and you always will.

BTW @sneakypete  ....  until you can name the war you fought in and won, spare me your know-it-all attitude.

Look in the mirror.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 22, 2022, 04:37:59 am
You are still too afraid to ask the tough questions for this 21st Century shi*tshow  ---- so you own it --- ALL of it ---

This ought to be good.  Which tough questions are those?  The lies about Ukraine asking for all the money that Biden is wasting?  The lies about $40 billion going to Ukraine?  The lies about Ukrainians being drug addicts and nazis?  The lies about Putin being Ukraine's "liberator" and "protector"?  The lies about this being a "border war"?  The lies about Ukraine being at fault for Russia's invasion?  The lies about Zelenskiy being connected with Vice President Biden's corruption?  Which tough question do you wish to ask?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 22, 2022, 05:05:23 am
Look in the mirror.

I don't really understand the point you're making @DB   ...  But I have been sending out a clarion call for caution since this began; that this should not be viewed as a revival of the Cold War.  All history points to this being SOP for The Ukraine ---- a border crisis wrapped in chest deep corruption.

This is not our fight and neither our blood or treasure belong there.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 22, 2022, 05:11:54 am
Nope.  You gleefully jumped back into the Cold War.  You are still too afraid to ask the tough questions for this 21st Century shi*tshow  ---- so you own it --- ALL of it --- and you always will.

BTW @sneakypete  ....  until you can name the war you fought in and won, spare me your know-it-all attitude.

@Right_in_Virginia

Why not tell US the wars you have fought in and YOUR international experience with military aid and training?

You are nothing more than a surrender monkey.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 22, 2022, 05:32:49 am
Nope.  You gleefully jumped back into the Cold War.  You are still too afraid to ask the tough questions for this 21st Century shi*tshow  ---- so you own it --- ALL of it --- and you always will.

BTW @sneakypete  ....  until you can name the war you fought in and won, spare me your know-it-all attitude.
Our troops won their war, the politicians lost it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 22, 2022, 12:41:01 pm
I don't really understand the point you're making @DB   ...  But I have been sending out a clarion call for caution since this began; that this should not be viewed as a revival of the Cold War.  All history points to this being SOP for The Ukraine ---- a border crisis wrapped in chest deep corruption.

This is not our fight and neither our blood or treasure belong there.

Seems the Netherlands, UK, Germany, France, Italy all are ponying up less per capita for this Ukraine defense than we are.  Why does there seem this less sense of urgency to these nations just 100's of miles from Russia, instead of 1000's like us?

Secondly, Russia is 11th in GDP, and as a power the trending rapidly downward.  If the EU and U.S. hadn't created ths self inflcited GND debacle, oil would still be $40-$50/bbl.  And that decline would have only steepened.  Escalating the matter just drives up the price of oil, and helps Putin.

Me?  I wish the Ukranian people well, and I hope they keep driving the Russians back.  But as far sending another f'ing tax dollar over there....   Hell No.  If this is worth it in the grand scheme of European security.  Let the EU deal with it...not us.

We got enough of a disaster over here thanks to Pedo Joe and his clown car.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 22, 2022, 01:00:20 pm
All history points to this being SOP for The Ukraine ---- a border crisis wrapped in chest deep corruption.

Pure unadulterated bullshit.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 22, 2022, 01:10:56 pm
Putin' Ukraine invasion is an 'epic fail', says the head of MI6: Russian offensive is 'running out of steam' and his forces may need to 'pause' in coming weeks

By CHARLOTTE MCLAUGHLIN FOR MAILONLINE
21 July 2022

Vladimir Putin is 'running out of steam' in Ukraine and his forces may have to 'pause' in the coming weeks, the head of MI6 has said.

Richard Moore, the chief of the UK Secret Intelligence Service (MI6), said the war was 'obviously not over' but the Russian President had obviously made an 'epic fail' invading the sovereign state. 

The news comes as Putin has suffered heavy losses and seen at least 66 of his colonels killed in the fighting.

This week the United States estimated the number of Russian casualties during the invasion is around 15,000 while Ukraine put it far higher at 38,850.

Mr Moore also dismissed claims that Putin is suffering from cancer, Parkinson's or another mystery illness, and has often appeared unsteady during recent public appearances.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11037109/Russias-Vladimir-Putin-running-steam-Ukraine-head-MI6-Richard-Moore-says.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 22, 2022, 03:13:04 pm
Our troops won their war, the politicians lost it.

 :amen:

Can't be said enough!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 22, 2022, 03:27:25 pm
Our troops won their war, the politicians lost it.

I agree with this @Smokin Joe   Our troops would have won the wars after WWII with the right civilian leadership.  What frustrates me is why so many continue to uncritically give control of military decisions to these same inept and corrupt politicians.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 22, 2022, 04:31:06 pm
I agree with this @Smokin Joe   Our troops would have won the wars after WWII with the right civilian leadership.  What frustrates me is why so many continue to uncritically give control of military decisions to these same inept and corrupt politicians.

In that case, you know how deeply you insulted Sneaky by implying he lost Vietnam.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 22, 2022, 04:44:24 pm
In that case, you know how deeply you insulted Sneaky by implying he lost Vietnam.

No less insulting as labeling Putin the "liberator" and "protector" of the Ukrainian people.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 22, 2022, 04:50:04 pm
No less insulting as labeling Putin the "liberator" and "protector" of the Ukrainian people.

Disagree, that was highly personal. Putin is not a TBR member.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 22, 2022, 04:52:41 pm
Disagree, that was highly personal.

It is highly personal to Ukrainians who are having their homes destroyed and family members killed and maimed.  But you are correct.  They aren't TBR members.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on July 22, 2022, 04:54:54 pm
Is the ready for Ukraine 3

It's been suggested to me in pm's
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Bigun on July 22, 2022, 05:04:20 pm
Our troops won their war, the politicians lost it.

 :yowsa: Exactly right! WE never lost a single battle in Vietnam.  The Commies (Democrats) in Washington gave victory to the North by undercutting the South Vietnamese government AFTER we pulled out.

They did the same exact thing to General Chang in China and played a large part in allowing Castro's takeover in Cuba as well.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 22, 2022, 05:10:44 pm
Is the ready for Ukraine 3

It's been suggested to me in pm's

Yes, I agree. Last thread got so personal people actually left TBR.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 22, 2022, 05:20:54 pm
In that case, you know how deeply you insulted Sneaky by implying he lost Vietnam.

Point well taken @Cyber Liberty

I reacted too strongly to you telling me to ESAD.  @sneakypete    I should not have so personalized our military's defeats.   I apologize, sincerely.

Oh, and FWIW, I am not a "surrender monkey"    happy77






Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 22, 2022, 05:23:39 pm
Point well taken @Cyber Liberty

I reacted too strongly to you telling me to ESAD, and I apologize for that @sneakypete

Thank you much!!

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Bigun on July 22, 2022, 05:27:09 pm
Point well taken @Cyber Liberty

I reacted too strongly to you telling me to ESAD.  @sneakypete    I should not have so personalized our military's political defeats.   I apologize, sincerely.

Oh, and FWIW, I am not a "surrender monkey"    happy77

Fixed it for you @Right_in_Virginia
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 22, 2022, 05:28:02 pm
Thank you much!!

:thumbsup:

Sure thing @Cyber Liberty    In the spirit of transparency, I did slightly edit my post.   happy77
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 22, 2022, 05:29:04 pm
Fixed it for you @Right_in_Virginia

Okay. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on July 22, 2022, 07:41:22 pm
Biden administration rolls out $270 million Ukraine weapons package
by Jordan Williams - 07/22/22 2:24 PM ET

The Biden administration on Friday rolled out a $270 million security assistance package for Ukraine that includes four more High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS) and hundreds of tactical drones.

White House national security spokesman John Kirby told reporters that the package includes $175 million in presidential drawdown authority, which allows the Pentagon to send weapons from its own stockpiles.

The remaining funds will go toward contracting up to 580 Phoenix Ghost unmanned aerial systems under the Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative.

The Pentagon first sent the drones in April, when it included 121 of as part of an $800 million weapons package. The drones are similar to the Switchblade drone, which is a small, rapidly deployable system that can fly short distances and is difficult to detect.

The HIMARS will be included in the drawdown package, along with additional ammunition for the systems, as well as 36,000 rounds of artillery ammunition and anti-armor vehicles, Kirby said.

The U.S. has now committed to providing 16 of the launchers to Ukraine, allowing Kyiv to strike targets from greater distances inside of Ukraine.

more
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/3570803-biden-administration-rolls-out-270-million-ukraine-weapons-package/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: berdie on July 22, 2022, 08:07:31 pm
Fixed it for you @Right_in_Virginia


Thank you.  :thumbsup:


Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on July 23, 2022, 05:27:18 pm
Air Force Open to Sending A-10s to Ukraine for Fight Against Russia
Thomas Novelly
Thu, July 21, 2022 at 11:47 AM

Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall said Wednesday that some of America's aging A-10 Thunderbolt combat jets could potentially be given to Ukraine as part of continued efforts to help that country repel Russian forces.

Kendall made the comment at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado on Wednesday evening after he was asked by a moderator whether the A-10, also known as the Warthog and which the Air Force has been slowly retiring from its fleet while encountering congressional resistance, could be given to Ukraine.

"That's largely up to Ukraine," Kendall said. "Older U.S. systems are a possibility. ... We will be open to discussions with them about what their requirements are and how we might be able to satisfy them."

more
https://news.yahoo.com/air-force-open-sending-10s-164748969.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 23, 2022, 06:14:44 pm
Air Force Open to Sending A-10s to Ukraine for Fight Against Russia

But is the Army open to it?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 23, 2022, 06:17:32 pm
Biden administration rolls out $270 million Ukraine weapons package

This represents less than 1% of the $40 billion outlay of government spending.  The State Department alone is getting 32 times this amount.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 23, 2022, 07:45:05 pm
Russian missiles hit Odessa port a day after signing grain deal; Ukraine calls it 'spit in the face' by Vladimir Putin

https://www.timesnownews.com/world/russian-missiles-hit-odessa-port-a-day-after-signing-grain-deal-ukraine-calls-it-spit-in-the-face-by-vladimir-putin-article-93080367

Russian missiles hit he southern Ukrainian port of Odessa on Saturday. The attack was carried out a day after Russia signed a grain deal with Ukraine in Istanbul. Notably, Odessa is one of the three port hubs mentioned in the agreement.

Russian missiles hit the southern Ukrainian port of Odessa on Saturday afternoon. several people were reportedly injured in the attack. The missile attack was carried out on Odessa port a day after Russia and Ukraine signed a grain deal in Istanbul. Ukraine called the attack a "spit in the face".

Meanwhile, the Ukrainian military claimed that it shot down two cruise missiles, reported AFP. However, two missiles hit the port. The attack has put the entire deal in jeopardy. The Ukrainian foreign ministry spokesperson said that the strike was "a spit in the face" by Russian President Vladimir Putin against the agreement.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky slammed Russia for the strikes. "This proves only one thing: no matter what Russia says and promises, it will find ways not to implement it," Zelensky said as quoted by AFP.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 23, 2022, 08:09:48 pm
Russia's word is worthless.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 23, 2022, 08:14:33 pm
Today, I saw a clip of a video of soldiers in a trench fighting for Ukraine.  The soldier narrating was a muslim (maybe Chechen) calling out Russia as the true enemy - the butcher of innocent women and children.  Along side him was an Israeli special forces soldier.  The narrator began by pointing out what he did not think possible - a muslim and a Jew fighting along side each other in the same trench.  Russia has done what no one thought could ever happen, bringing muslims and Jews together to fight against the Russian bastards.  Wish I could find a link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 23, 2022, 08:21:00 pm
“You’ve never seen anything like this:” Muslim and Jew fight together against the Russians

@Hoodat

https://warisboring.com/youve-never-seen-anything-like-this-muslim-and-jew-fight-together-against-the-russians/ (https://warisboring.com/youve-never-seen-anything-like-this-muslim-and-jew-fight-together-against-the-russians/)

War makes comrades out of the most unlikely fellows, and the conflict in Ukraine is no exception.

An Israeli Jew and a Muslim were filmed hiding from Russian indirect fire barrages, declaring their brotherhood against the invasion forces.

The video, which made its rounds on 4chan before finding its way to Reddit and Twitter, shows the two men hiding from GRAD strikes.

More at link.

https://twitter.com/ItsArtoir/status/1550097213958852608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1550097213958852608%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwarisboring.com%2Fyouve-never-seen-anything-like-this-muslim-and-jew-fight-together-against-the-russians%2F (https://twitter.com/ItsArtoir/status/1550097213958852608?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1550097213958852608%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwarisboring.com%2Fyouve-never-seen-anything-like-this-muslim-and-jew-fight-together-against-the-russians%2F)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 23, 2022, 08:21:46 pm
Thanks, @Elderberry
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 23, 2022, 08:57:28 pm
This is what Russia gets when they brutally subjugate a people (Chechens), then try to force them to fight for Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 23, 2022, 10:28:12 pm
But is the Army open to it?

@Hoodat

The army has nothing to say or do about what the USAF does with their people and airplanes.

I can tell you with an ABSOLUTE certainty that any US Army soldiers that might be serving in Ukraine as observers or advisors to Ukrainian units are HUGELY in favor of Wart Hogs showing up.

Trust me on this one.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 23, 2022, 10:34:23 pm
@Hoodat

The army has nothing to say or do about what the USAF does with their people and airplanes.

I can tell you with an ABSOLUTE certainty that any US Army soldiers that might be serving in Ukraine as observers or advisors to Ukrainian units are HUGELY in favor of Wart Hogs showing up.

Trust me on this one.

It should be an Army aircraft, period.  Army purchase.  Army pilots.  Army maintenance.  They shouldn't let the Air Force have anything to do with them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 23, 2022, 11:32:54 pm
More than 1,000 Russian troops encircled by Ukrainian Forces in Kherson region

Friday, July 22, 2022  |  6:00:51 PM


During the counteroffensive in the Kherson region, the Ukrainian Armed Forces encircled three battalion tactical groups of the Russian Army, including a special forces (VDV) company and a tank company. Up to 2,000 Russian troops are in the operational encirclement near the village of Vysokopillya. They requested a "green corridor" from the Ukrainian military, reported The Insider, citing sources in the Ukrainian army.

Ukrainian Forces carried out an offensive in the directions of Olhyne - Kostyrka and Potomkyne - Novovoznesenske. Active hostilities are currently taking place along the Arkhanhelske - Zolota Balka axis in the north of the Kherson region.

Russian troops are also facing encirclement near the village of Arkhanhelske, where the Ukrainian military successfully crossed the Ingulets River threatening Russian positions on the left bank. According to the Ukrainian military, Russians threw in two battalion tactical groups to stop the advance of the Ukrainian Forces near Novovoznesenske – Zolota Balka.  .  .  .

https://uawire.org/more-than-1-000-russian-troops-encircled-by-ukrainian-forces-in-kherson-region



Russian troops have already been given a "green corridor" to get the hell out of Ukraine.  Perhaps they should take it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 24, 2022, 03:36:15 am
It should be an Army aircraft, period.  Army purchase.  Army pilots.  Army maintenance.  They shouldn't let the Air Force have anything to do with them.

@Hoodat

I agree,but that ain't the way it works. Remember when the army was flying a twin engine airplane named the "Caribou"? GREAT aircraft for landing on small remote airstrips,where oddly enough,a lot of SF A-teams had their camps.

The USAF had a hissy-fit over the Army encroaching on their turf,and that was the end of the Caribou flights. The USAF didn't like them,and started using C-123's instead,which resulted in the "jet booster"(JACO?) being added to the 123's so they had enough power to take off from short strips. Yeah,the 123's could carry a heavier load than the older Caribou's,but that didn't matter to the brass. What mattered was protecting their turf.

The USAF wasn't really happy about all the army helo's either,but that was only because the helo's "sorta" flew by beating the air into submission,so they just weren't sexy enough for the AF.

BTW,I was told that some smart guy in the US Army procurement chain did a little research and just bought the Caribou's from the Canadian manufacturer pretty much as they were. Saved the taxpayers a TON of money by not having to "reinvent the wheel",so to speak. The Caribous were really designed to service all the short airstrips on remote places in Alaska and Canada,so they were a PERFECT fit for the US Army needs at that time. I am sure SOME modifications had to be made,but it couldn't have been many.

I found out not long ago that one of my local friends was a load master on a Caribou in the early days of the VN war.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 24, 2022, 11:59:24 am
Ukraine strips down captured Russian drone, says it is full of Western parts, CNN reports

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-captured-russian-drone-western-parts-2022-7 (https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-captured-russian-drone-western-parts-2022-7)

•   Ukraine says Russian drones are full of components made by Western companies.

•   Despite global sanctions, Russia appears to have acquired parts from several of Ukraine's Western allies.

•   Russia has a long history of evading international controls.

Ukraine claims that Russian drones used to kill its soldiers are full of parts from its Western allies.

A Ukrainian technical intel officer showed CNN's Nic Robertson inside a captured Russian Orlan-10 surveillance drone, revealing components from around the world.

The officer claimed that the drone's cell phone tracker was US-made. He said that the engine was manufactured in Japan, and the thermal imaging module on the camera was produced in France after Russia had already invaded.

Other Russian drone parts come from countries including Austria, Germany, Taiwan and the Netherlands, the officer claimed.

This is in spite of a spate of global sanctions aimed at crippling Russia's war machine.

The officer said his job is to follow every serial number to work out who made the part and alert allies to stop Russia's drone techs from getting their hands on it.

Robertson noted that stopping the supply of these often commercial components won't be easy, as Russia might have stockpiled parts and has a long history of evading sanctions.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 24, 2022, 01:32:28 pm
Quote
  Russia has a long history of evading international controls.

And greedy,"the bottom line is ALL that counts" businessmen,as well as traitors working in the defense industry,are all to happy to betray their country for profits,or to become a "secret hero in a workers paradise".

These people should be shot if and after found guilty by a MILITARY court.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 24, 2022, 03:10:33 pm
Is Russia RUNNING OUT of weapons in Ukraine: Putin's army hits ground targets with surface-to-air missiles that are meant to shoot down planes amid 'critical' weapon shortages

By CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE and AFP
24 July 2022

Russia has been hitting ground targets in Ukraine with a surface-to-air missiles, reports have said, the latest sign of growing logistical issues faced by Moscow.

The Soviet-era S-300 missile system, first deployed in 1979, was originally designed to defend against air raids and cruise missiles for the Soviet Air Defence Forces.

But reports from Ukraine have said the system has been used by Russian forces to attack ground targets, with the British Defence Ministry saying this suggests Vladimir Putin's forces are experiencing 'critical shortages' of ground-attack weapons.

Reports said the missiles were equipped with an atypical explosive projectile that destroys everything in the vicinity of impact, with commentators accusing Russian forces of yet more war crimes for striking civilian areas with weapons capable of such indiscriminate destruction.

On Thursday, Vitaly Kim - governor of the southern Mykolaiv region - said it had been targeted with seven S-300 missiles, with one person wounded and impacts on infrastructure, energy facilities and storage areas.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11043373/Russia-using-surface-air-missiles-hit-ground-targets-Ukraine-reports-say.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on July 24, 2022, 04:48:53 pm
Ukraine strips down captured Russian drone, says it is full of Western parts, CNN reports

https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-captured-russian-drone-western-parts-2022-7 (https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-captured-russian-drone-western-parts-2022-7)

•   Ukraine says Russian drones are full of components made by Western companies.

•   Despite global sanctions, Russia appears to have acquired parts from several of Ukraine's Western allies.

•   Russia has a long history of evading international controls.

Ukraine claims that Russian drones used to kill its soldiers are full of parts from its Western allies.

A Ukrainian technical intel officer showed CNN's Nic Robertson inside a captured Russian Orlan-10 surveillance drone, revealing components from around the world.

The officer claimed that the drone's cell phone tracker was US-made. He said that the engine was manufactured in Japan, and the thermal imaging module on the camera was produced in France after Russia had already invaded.

Other Russian drone parts come from countries including Austria, Germany, Taiwan and the Netherlands, the officer claimed.

This is in spite of a spate of global sanctions aimed at crippling Russia's war machine.

The officer said his job is to follow every serial number to work out who made the part and alert allies to stop Russia's drone techs from getting their hands on it.

Robertson noted that stopping the supply of these often commercial components won't be easy, as Russia might have stockpiled parts and has a long history of evading sanctions.

More at link.

That's a given. Russia does not have the ability to make many of these things. But all they have to do is setup shell companies in remote quiet countries and purchase these parts. The distributors can't investigate every order to see if that company is moving parts elsewhere. And if they did the costs would be passed on to everyone who buys those parts.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 24, 2022, 07:22:05 pm
It should be an Army aircraft, period.  Army purchase.  Army pilots.  Army maintenance.  They shouldn't let the Air Force have anything to do with them.

Are they of any value if you don't have control of the skies?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 24, 2022, 08:06:11 pm
Are they of any value if you don't have control of the skies?

It's a ground support aircraft only.  It's not their job to control the skies.  If the enemy is controlling the skies, then they have a much bigger problem to worry about.

Currently in Ukraine, neither side has air superiority.  Anything in the air is susceptible to surface to air artillery and missiles.  But if you need ground support for an offensive operation, the A-10 is your best option.  It's survivability is greater than a helicopter.  And its effectiveness is greater than a F-15.

The Air Force doesn't like them because they're slow compared to supersonic fighters, they fly too close to the ground action, and they don't like doing ground support in general.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 24, 2022, 08:41:48 pm
Yard By Yard, The Ukrainians Appear To Be Pushing Toward Kherson

David Axe  |  Jul 23, 2022  |  08:00am EDT


Don’t get too excited about unconfirmed reports of Ukrainian forces surrounding hundreds, or even thousands, of Russian troops in a town 60 miles northeast of the port of Kherson in southern Ukraine.

But the flimsy rumors swirling around the purported pocket of surrounded Russian troops in Vysokopillya belie the real pressure the Russians are under along the southern front of Russia’s five-month-old wider war on Ukraine.

Having expended the last of its prewar combat power capturing the twin cities of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk in eastern Ukraine’s Donbas region, the Russian army has hit pause on major offensive operations.

The Kremlin is busy raising volunteer battalions to make good the tens of thousands of soldiers the army has buried or sent to hospitals since late February. Ukrainian commanders have taken advantage of the Russian pause—and the simultaneous arrival of U.S.-made rockets—to ratchet up strikes on Russian radars, command posts and supply lines.

The rocket attacks are helping to destabilize Russian defenses. And in the south around Kherson, that’s helped Ukrainian forces to inch toward the occupied port city with a pre-war population of 300,000, extending a tentative counteroffensive that began back in May.  .  .

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/07/23/inch-by-inch-the-ukrainians-appear-to-be-pushing-south-toward-kherson/?sh=48dc7db17e20
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 24, 2022, 10:35:58 pm
It's a ground support aircraft only.  It's not their job to control the skies.  If the enemy is controlling the skies, then they have a much bigger problem to worry about.

Currently in Ukraine, neither side has air superiority.  Anything in the air is susceptible to surface to air artillery and missiles.  But if you need ground support for an offensive operation, the A-10 is your best option.  It's survivability is greater than a helicopter.  And its effectiveness is greater than a F-15.

The Air Force doesn't like them because they're slow compared to supersonic fighters, they fly too close to the ground action, and they don't like doing ground support in general.

@Hoodat

Yup,but it should be noted there is a HUGE exception to this rule. Fighter pilots LOVE Wart Hogs,and only the best pilots that volunteer for them get to fly them.

And I have been told by people in the USAF when I was still in the army that the line of potential Wart Hog pilots is a LOT longer than the number of WH's available.

The young pilots just LOVE that Bush! So do some of the older pilots who still think they are young. I have seen them do a barrel roll over me after making a gun run,and they were so close to the ground I could see the pilot smiling as he flew over me with an open canopy,and his silk scarf flying in the wind.

Seems like they were all wearing leather helmets,goggles,and fling silk scarves of different colors to identify what flight they came from. They were like big kids playing "WW-2 Movie".

It also needs to be said that if a Wart Hog pilot was shot down,there was NEVER a shortage of volunteers wanting to go in and pull them out.

It also needs to be noted that they all had an open invitation to come drink in our NCO club anytime they wanted,and the drinks would be free.

BTW,the Wart Hogs I am writing about were the ones still using those old radial gasoline engines from WW-2 and made all the good sounds as they passed over.

The new WH's are jet propelled,but can still fly slow enough to be effective,and they carry even MORE ordinance than the VN-Era ones.

In case you haven't guessed,I am a HUGE fan of both Wart Hogs AND their pilots. Those boys have some SERIOUS stones!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 25, 2022, 12:36:19 am
It's a ground support aircraft only. It's not their job to control the skies.  If the enemy is controlling the skies, then they have a much bigger problem to worry about.

Currently in Ukraine, neither side has air superiority.  Anything in the air is susceptible to surface to air artillery and missiles.  But if you need ground support for an offensive operation, the A-10 is your best option.  It's survivability is greater than a helicopter.  And its effectiveness is greater than a F-15.

The Air Force doesn't like them because they're slow compared to supersonic fighters, they fly too close to the ground action, and they don't like doing ground support in general.

If you don't have control of the skies and they are slow doesn't that make them easy targets for MIG's?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 25, 2022, 02:46:24 am
If you don't have control of the skies and they are slow doesn't that make them easy targets for MIG's?

@bilo

I don't know for sure because I am not,and never have been a zoomie,but I strongly suspect that anything with the electronics gear and the firepower a WH has is never going to be an easy target for anyone.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 25, 2022, 03:19:27 am
@bilo

I don't know for sure because I am not,and never have been a zoomie,but I strongly suspect that anything with the electronics gear and the firepower a WH has is never going to be an easy target for anyone.
That, and they are flat-out one of the most maneuverable aircraft I have ever seen in motion.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 25, 2022, 07:05:04 am
That, and they are flat-out one of the most maneuverable aircraft I have ever seen in motion.

@Smokin Joe

Not sure how relevant that is in these days of missiles that home in and follow,but I don't really know diddly squat about fighter aircraft anti-aircraft armament. For all I know they are armed with missiles programed to seek out and destroy incoming missiles.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 25, 2022, 09:06:20 am
@Smokin Joe

Not sure how relevant that is in these days of missiles that home in and follow,but I don't really know diddly squat about fighter aircraft anti-aircraft armament. For all I know they are armed with missiles programed to seek out and destroy incoming missiles.
Some missiles are heat seekers. The ability to pivot the aircraft to 'hide' the exhausts while dumping flares makes duping the missiles with countermeasures possible, and the aircraft is moving away from it's former track. I have observed A-10s go from a full left bank to a full right bank in a heartbeat, which would suggest (as long as the pilot can take the Gs) they can turn out of the path of an incoming missile pretty quick.

That would not defeat a radar lock, but well timed, might keep the missile from a direct impact or increase distance from a proximity warhead.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 25, 2022, 02:49:12 pm
(Zimerman is based in Jerusalem )

Erik Zimerman
@ZimermanErik

Reports emerging that #Ukraine, apparently believing itself to be 1960's Israel, and #Russia 1960's Iraq, (not to mention Russian pilots to be Christian Assyrians in Iraq), tried to recruit #Russian pilots to defect with their planes (ie SU-24 / 34). The failed UA intelligence

operation was busted and "flipped" by a successful Russian FSB counter-intelligence operation. The UA intelligence agents were reportedly lured to identify themselves, other trusted sources, and UA anti-aircraft systems details & positions. A defecting pilot for example would

reasonably need to know many such details in order to fly over Ukrainian territory with a reasonable assurance of not being shot down and killed. This was a creative idea, one I could see coming form the likes of #Arestovych or other Ukrainian well read in history, specifically,

Israeli history, as the Mossad famously successfully captured the West's first Mig-21 in 1966 in a similar operation (Operation Diamond). The difference of course is in the quality of execution. This begins by knowing the potential loyalties (& disloyalties) of your foes and

their general mindset and motivations. Ukrainian agents here likely erred badly, since their government's propaganda so incorrectly portrays Russian troops, their loyalties and motivations.


7:59 AM · Jul 25, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 25, 2022, 03:11:48 pm
That, and they are flat-out one of the most maneuverable aircraft I have ever seen in motion.

Any military support we can give Ukraine that destroys the Russians is a great investment in my book. I do know the WH is a great tank killer. If giving Ukraine our older WH's is going to help expel the Russians I'm all for it. I just don't want to see us give weaponry to Ukraine that doesn't help.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 25, 2022, 03:12:28 pm
(Zimerman is based in Jerusalem )

Erik Zimerman
@ZimermanErik

Reports emerging that #Ukraine, apparently believing itself to be 1960's Israel, and #Russia 1960's Iraq, (not to mention Russian pilots to be Christian Assyrians in Iraq), tried to recruit #Russian pilots to defect with their planes (ie SU-24 / 34). The failed UA intelligence

operation was busted and "flipped" by a successful Russian FSB counter-intelligence operation. The UA intelligence agents were reportedly lured to identify themselves, other trusted sources, and UA anti-aircraft systems details & positions. A defecting pilot for example would

reasonably need to know many such details in order to fly over Ukrainian territory with a reasonable assurance of not being shot down and killed. This was a creative idea, one I could see coming form the likes of #Arestovych or other Ukrainian well read in history, specifically,

Israeli history, as the Mossad famously successfully captured the West's first Mig-21 in 1966 in a similar operation (Operation Diamond). The difference of course is in the quality of execution. This begins by knowing the potential loyalties (& disloyalties) of your foes and

their general mindset and motivations. Ukrainian agents here likely erred badly, since their government's propaganda so incorrectly portrays Russian troops, their loyalties and motivations.


7:59 AM · Jul 25, 2022·Twitter Web App



A probability and IMO more than likely.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 25, 2022, 03:13:52 pm
Any military support we can give Ukraine that destroys the Russians is a great investment in my book. I do know the WH is a great tank killer. If giving Ukraine our older WH's is going to help expel the Russians I'm all for it. I just don't want to see us give weaponry to Ukraine that doesn't help.

OR them stockpiling those weapons to be used against us at a later date.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 25, 2022, 03:24:26 pm
OR them stockpiling those weapons to be used against us at a later date.

Or that are sold on the black market
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 26, 2022, 12:47:47 am
Russia says it wants to end Ukraine's 'unacceptable regime'

The Sumter Item by SUSIE BLANN 7/26/2022

https://www.theitem.com/stories/russia-says-it-wants-to-end-ukraines-unacceptable-regime,385708 (https://www.theitem.com/stories/russia-says-it-wants-to-end-ukraines-unacceptable-regime,385708)

KYIV, Ukraine - Russia's top diplomat said Moscow's overarching goal in Ukraine is to free its people from its "unacceptable regime," expressing the Kremlin's war aims in some of the bluntest terms yet as its forces pummel the country with artillery barrages and airstrikes.

The remark from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov comes amid Ukraine's efforts to resume grain exports from its Black Sea ports -something that would help ease global food shortages - under a new deal tested by a Russian strike on Odesa during the weekend.

"We are determined to help the people of eastern Ukraine to liberate themselves from the burden of this absolutely unacceptable regime," Lavrov said at an Arab League summit in Cairo late Sunday, referring to Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskyy's government.

Apparently suggesting that Moscow's war aims extend beyond Ukraine's industrial Donbas region in the east, Lavrov said: "We will certainly help the Ukrainian people to get rid of the regime, which is absolutely anti-people and anti-historical."

Lavrov's comments followed his warning last week that Russia plans to retain control over broader areas beyond eastern Ukraine, including the Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions in the south, and will make more gains elsewhere.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 26, 2022, 12:50:06 am
Or that are sold on the black market

For the third time, do you have any evidence of this occurring?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 26, 2022, 12:56:09 am
KYIV, Ukraine - Russia's top diplomat said Moscow's overarching goal in Ukraine is to free its people from its "unacceptable regime,"

This is what the "acceptable regime is doing to the Ukraine people:

(https://imgs.search.brave.com/tPRHbhnF7sc4nDSOI0YF8cQNFlBG51T9U2ATqLdD5mw/rs:fit:1200:720:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWcu/bm92aW5pLmJnL3Vw/bG9hZHMvbmV3c19w/aWN0dXJlcy8yMDIy/LTI5L2JpZy83OTY5/NzEuanBn)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 26, 2022, 01:31:18 pm
This is what the "acceptable regime is doing to the Ukraine people:

(https://imgs.search.brave.com/tPRHbhnF7sc4nDSOI0YF8cQNFlBG51T9U2ATqLdD5mw/rs:fit:1200:720:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWcu/bm92aW5pLmJnL3Vw/bG9hZHMvbmV3c19w/aWN0dXJlcy8yMDIy/LTI5L2JpZy83OTY5/NzEuanBn)

@Hoodat

Well,death IS the ultimate release from worry.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: txradioguy on July 26, 2022, 02:37:13 pm
It should be an Army aircraft, period.  Army purchase.  Army pilots.  Army maintenance.  They shouldn't let the Air Force have anything to do with them.

If the stories can be believed....that almost happened right before the Start of Desert Shield/Storm.

The USAF has been trying to get rid of the A-10 for quite some time. There was a proposal to transfer them to Army Aviation in the late 80's early 90's.

But the air war in Kuwait/Iraq and that image on CNN of a crew chief standing up through the shrapnel hole in the wing of one particular A-10 made them sexy to the public and some members of Congress and the USAF has had a love/hate relationship with them ever since.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 26, 2022, 10:04:27 pm
If the stories can be believed....that almost happened right before the Start of Desert Shield/Storm.

The USAF has been trying to get rid of the A-10 for quite some time. There was a proposal to transfer them to Army Aviation in the late 80's early 90's.

But the air war in Kuwait/Iraq and that image on CNN of a crew chief standing up through the shrapnel hole in the wing of one particular A-10 made them sexy to the public and some members of Congress and the USAF has had a love/hate relationship with them ever since.

@txradioguy

The fighter pilots,especially the young pilots,love the HELL out of them. The Brass,not so much. They are all in love with the zoomies. They lust after stuff that will fly faster than the speed of light,and if the ground pounders don't like it,they can just ESAD. Especially die.

Then again,NONE of them have every been and will NEVER be on the ground needing close air support because their position is being overran by the enemy.

If they had,I suspect their outlook would be different.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 27, 2022, 12:05:07 pm
'Summer concert in Mariupol.  It is an irony but now #Mariupol is the safest place in #Donbass'  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/alopeki/status/1551098605464915968
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 27, 2022, 12:14:34 pm
(https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f1fa-1f1e6.svg)  (Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1552098659482968064



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 27, 2022, 12:23:54 pm
Putin's troops shoot down their OWN helicopter in Kherson after it mistakenly attacked them - as Ukraine cuts off Russian forces in the province by blowing up a bridge with US-supplied HIMARS missiles

By JACK NEWMAN FOR MAILONLINE
27 July 2022

Putin's blundering forces have shot down their own helicopter in Ukraine after it mistakenly started firing at its own troops.

The Ka-52 'Alligator' helicopter, which costs an estimated £12million, was gunned down in Kherson, Ukraine's General Staff revealed.

The military bosses joked it was a 'gesture of goodwill' from the invading forces.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11053189/Putins-troops-shoot-helicopter-Kherson-mistakenly-attacked-them.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 27, 2022, 12:36:20 pm
Jack Posobiec
@JackPosobiec

(https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYorLjnWYAAyWFq?format=jpg&name=360x360)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYorLjmXoAY5COO?format=jpg&name=360x360)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYorLjoXkAAkqFt?format=jpg&name=360x360)

9:16 PM · Jul 26, 2022  Twitter for iPhone




Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 27, 2022, 01:00:33 pm
Should we recognize the jurisdiction of the ICC now?  Show of hands ....

Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

huh  https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-zelenskyy-pursue-war-crimes-charges-leaders-jpmorgan-citi-hsbc-2022-7

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYqESnHWIAAm77m?format=jpg&name=small)

3:45 AM · Jul 27, 2022  Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 27, 2022, 01:09:46 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Russian soldiers engaging in some "winning hearts and minds" in Zaporozhye oblast

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYlGpdRX0AEDTPp?format=jpg&name=small)  (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYlGqn6WAAUvMaG?format=jpg&name=small)


4:37 AM · Jul 26, 2022  Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 27, 2022, 01:13:27 pm
Jack Posobiec
@JackPosobiec

(https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg) (https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f33b.svg)

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYorLjnWYAAyWFq?format=jpg&name=360x360)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYorLjmXoAY5COO?format=jpg&name=360x360)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYorLjoXkAAkqFt?format=jpg&name=360x360)

9:16 PM · Jul 26, 2022  Twitter for iPhone

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYovRLrXgAE890g?format=jpg&name=small)  (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYpYrjtWYAAOMtg?format=jpg&name=small)




Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 27, 2022, 07:45:54 pm
Antonovsky Bridge - Kherson

  (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0zmwTmNwxw)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 27, 2022, 07:49:27 pm
Russians With Attitude
@RWApodcast

Russian soldiers engaging in some "winning hearts and minds" in Zaporozhye oblast

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYlGpdRX0AEDTPp?format=jpg&name=small)  (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYlGqn6WAAUvMaG?format=jpg&name=small)

4:37 AM · Jul 26, 2022  Twitter Web App


Russians winning hearts and minds

(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-news/2022/07/27/TELEMMGLPICT000304132857_1_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqW4uoqVGsglTKVsQUCPZ_Fp5SgYYVpU24VsbRQhggRsc.jpeg?imwidth=1240)
Seven-year-old Roman Oleksiv recovers in hospital after suffering burns on nearly half his body
from a Russian missile strike CREDIT: CBS/CBS
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 28, 2022, 01:23:25 am
Russian families pull rug from under Putin as they descend on Kremlin

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1646475/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-russia-deaths-volodymyr-zelensky-nato-nuclear-latest-updates (https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1646475/ukraine-live-vladimir-putin-russia-deaths-volodymyr-zelensky-nato-nuclear-latest-updates)

HUNDREDS of Russian families are demanding Vladimir Putin reveal the truth about the whereabouts of their loved ones in Ukraine.

Angry relatives penned a letter to the Russian president calling for him to tell them where their relatives and friends are and to add them to the list of prisoners of war who are missing. Those involved in the effort are also asking to meet with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, for prisoners to be returned to Russia and that DNA tests to be conducted for any fallen soldiers. The letter said: "The Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation has been blocking a change in the status of servicemen for more than five months, regardless of their constantly changing information." Russia has not revealed the extent of its losses in Ukraine but the number is thought to have reached over 40,000.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 02:57:24 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYovRLrXgAE890g?format=jpg&name=small)  (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FYpYrjtWYAAOMtg?format=jpg&name=small)

I knew it wouldn't be long before the Pro-Russia crowd posted the stupid photos.

Zelenskyy and his wife were dumb to do the photo op. All it does is downplay the gravity of the situation. If Ukraine is crushed by the invaders the aggression won't stop there and more natural resources will fall under the control of a country with no history of respecting their neighbors or being trust worthy.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on July 28, 2022, 12:16:14 pm
Pro-Russia. Wow.  **nononono*
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 28, 2022, 12:28:18 pm
I knew it wouldn't be long before the Pro-Russia crowd posted the stupid photos.
their neighbors or being trust worthy.

@Right_in_Virginia


Stop this bullshit.  Nothing pro-Russia about it.  More a pro-American, and not sending my hard earned tax dollars to a corrupt regime statement as far as I am concerned.  If you are so concerned about filling Zelllinsky's coffers , why not just pull your checkbook out and send Vlady a check instead.

Or in true actuality, let the nations in the EU who are finacially better off than us, (UK, Germany, France), and 1000's of miles closer, foot the bill.

If you'd take off your MSM offically issued teal/yellow shaded sunglasses, you'd see this country is $31T in debt broke. Enough already.  I think you owe RIV an apology.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 28, 2022, 12:34:26 pm
@Right_in_Virginia


Stop this bullshit.  Nothing pro-Russia about it.  More a pro-American, and not sending my hard earned tax dollars to a corrupt regime statement as far as I am concerned.  If you are so concerned about filling Zelllinsky's coffers , why not just pull your checkbook out and send Vlady a check instead.

Or in true actuality, let the nations in the EU who are finacially better off than us, (UK, Germany, France), and 1000's of miles closer, foot the bill.

If you'd take off your MSM offically issued teal/yellow shaded sunglasses, you'd see this country is $31T in debt broke. Enough already.  I think you owe RIV an apology.

Thank you @catfish1957
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 28, 2022, 12:42:29 pm
If the shoe fits ....
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 28, 2022, 12:54:18 pm
Trapped like rats: Russia's 49th army in Kherson is 'highly vulnerable' and completely cut off from other occupied territory after Ukraine strikes bridge again as counter-offensive gains momentum

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
28 July 2022

Russian troops defending the city of Kherson are 'highly vulnerable' to attack after Ukraine destroyed or damaged bridges linking it with the rest of its occupied territory, British military intelligence says.

Putin's men are now relying on pontoon bridges and ferries to move troops, vehicles and supplies across the Dnipro River after Ukraine blew up Antonovsky Bridge, which is Russia's main road route into and out of the city.

Two other bridges - the Antonovsky Rail Bridge and Nova Khakokva hydroelectric dam bridge - have also been damaged in recent days, and are not fully operational. 

The next-closest bridge spanning the Dnipro - Ukraine's main river which splits the country down the middle - is at Zaporizhzhia, some 130 miles from Kherson and in the middle of a city that Ukraine controls and has heavily defended.

It means Russia has no easy way of reinforcing or resupplying its men in Kherson in the event that Ukraine attacks - a move which is expected to come soon.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11057013/Russian-troops-Kherson-highly-vulnerable-attack-Ukraine-destroys-bridges.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 28, 2022, 04:06:01 pm
This is what the "acceptable regime is doing to the Ukraine people:

(https://imgs.search.brave.com/tPRHbhnF7sc4nDSOI0YF8cQNFlBG51T9U2ATqLdD5mw/rs:fit:1200:720:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWcu/bm92aW5pLmJnL3Vw/bG9hZHMvbmV3c19w/aWN0dXJlcy8yMDIy/LTI5L2JpZy83OTY5/NzEuanBn)

This is what the regime you support wthout question has done to the American people:

Chicago:
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/4.EDalQ56uDz_KhRiAiV7w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQyNw--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/2Dpx2z0o1qVGtnyEhqLKvA--~B/aD0xMzY1O3c9MjA0ODthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/chicago_tribune_local_801/29ed95edff2125f8c2e9956a7eb6cb70)

Philadelphia
(https://ogden_images.s3.amazonaws.com/www.ljworld.com/images/2002/03/23143930/classPHILLY.jpg)

Detroit
(https://libraryroadtrip.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/destroyed-building-detroit-mi1.jpg)





Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 28, 2022, 04:09:53 pm
This is what the regime you support wthout question has done to the American people:

Chicago:
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/4.EDalQ56uDz_KhRiAiV7w--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTQyNw--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/2Dpx2z0o1qVGtnyEhqLKvA--~B/aD0xMzY1O3c9MjA0ODthcHBpZD15dGFjaHlvbg--/https://media.zenfs.com/en/chicago_tribune_local_801/29ed95edff2125f8c2e9956a7eb6cb70)

Philadelphia
(https://ogden_images.s3.amazonaws.com/www.ljworld.com/images/2002/03/23143930/classPHILLY.jpg)

Detroit
(https://libraryroadtrip.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/destroyed-building-detroit-mi1.jpg)
Interesting that you would compare multi-generational American urban decay with what was done in mere moments in Ukraine. But carry on...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 28, 2022, 04:21:18 pm
Interesting that you would compare multi-generational American urban decay with what was done in mere moments in Ukraine. But carry on...

Interesting that you won't----especially since we're living through its planned acceleration. 

But, good try with the spin none-the-less. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 28, 2022, 04:22:07 pm
Interesting that you won't----especially since we're living through its planned acceleration. 

But, good try with the spin none-the-less.

30 seconds... 30 years....    Same result.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 28, 2022, 05:44:41 pm
Russia launches attack on Kyiv for first time in weeks

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
July 28, 2022

Russian missiles rained down on the Kyiv region Thursday, the first time in weeks the Kremlin has targeted the area surrounding the Ukrainian capital.

“Russia, with the help of missiles, is mounting revenge for the widespread popular resistance,” regional Gov. Oleksiy Kuleba said on Ukrainian TV. “Ukraine has already broken Russia’s plans and will continue to defend itself.”

Kuleba said on social media that infrastructure in Vyshgorod had been hit in the attack, but provided no further details nor casualty figures.

The Chernihiv region was also hit Thursday, with Gov. Vyacheslav Chaus saying the village of Honcharivska was hit by rockets fired from the Belarussian territory.

Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city and a favorite target for Russian artillery, was also shelled Thursday.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/28/russia-launches-attack-on-kyiv-for-first-time-in-weeks/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 28, 2022, 05:49:00 pm
I guess the Vogue photo-shoot really pissed the Ruskies off....
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 28, 2022, 06:02:33 pm
I guess the Vogue photo-shoot really pissed the Ruskies off....

:silly:

Putin just wants to date them/have a three-some with the two of them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on July 28, 2022, 06:22:54 pm
Interesting that you won't----especially since we're living through its planned acceleration. 

But, good try with the spin none-the-less.
If it looks like the room is turning, it's because you are the one spinning.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 06:36:00 pm
Pro-Russia. Wow.  **nononono*

If you follow the threads it's pretty obvious that there is a group of Pro-Russia posters. They are pretty easy to identify. They excuse everything Russia does including invading sovereign countries and then explaining all the carnage can end if Ukraine would just surrender.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 06:41:21 pm
@Right_in_Virginia


Stop this bullshit.  Nothing pro-Russia about it.  More a pro-American, and not sending my hard earned tax dollars to a corrupt regime statement as far as I am concerned.  If you are so concerned about filling Zelllinsky's coffers , why not just pull your checkbook out and send Vlady a check instead.

Or in true actuality, let the nations in the EU who are finacially better off than us, (UK, Germany, France), and 1000's of miles closer, foot the bill.

If you'd take off your MSM offically issued teal/yellow shaded sunglasses, you'd see this country is $31T in debt broke. Enough already.  I think you owe RIV an apology.

So if I understand your post as I read it you think not helping Ukraine and letting Russia take as much territory as it wants is not a Pro-Russia position?

Apologize to a Pro-Russia poster? I don't think so.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 06:45:25 pm
Trapped like rats: Russia's 49th army in Kherson is 'highly vulnerable' and completely cut off from other occupied territory after Ukraine strikes bridge again as counter-offensive gains momentum

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
28 July 2022

Russian troops defending the city of Kherson are 'highly vulnerable' to attack after Ukraine destroyed or damaged bridges linking it with the rest of its occupied territory, British military intelligence says.

Putin's men are now relying on pontoon bridges and ferries to move troops, vehicles and supplies across the Dnipro River after Ukraine blew up Antonovsky Bridge, which is Russia's main road route into and out of the city.

Two other bridges - the Antonovsky Rail Bridge and Nova Khakokva hydroelectric dam bridge - have also been damaged in recent days, and are not fully operational. 

The next-closest bridge spanning the Dnipro - Ukraine's main river which splits the country down the middle - is at Zaporizhzhia, some 130 miles from Kherson and in the middle of a city that Ukraine controls and has heavily defended.

It means Russia has no easy way of reinforcing or resupplying its men in Kherson in the event that Ukraine attacks - a move which is expected to come soon.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11057013/Russian-troops-Kherson-highly-vulnerable-attack-Ukraine-destroys-bridges.html

Pushing the invaders out of Kherson is going to be very tough. The Russians will have the protection of being in an urban environment. It sounds like the fighting is already starting.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 28, 2022, 06:46:46 pm
Pushing the invaders out of Kherson is going to be very tough. The Russians will have the protection of being in an urban environment. It sounds like the fighting is already starting.


On the other hand, with all avenues of easy escape cut off, they can simply give the Russians a dose of their own medicine - artillery until there is nothing left but Russian bone-shards dancing in the dust.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 28, 2022, 06:57:00 pm

On the other hand, with all avenues of easy escape cut off, they can simply give the Russians a dose of their own medicine - artillery until there is nothing left but Russian bone-shards dancing in the dust.

Building Sun Tsu's "Golden Bridge" failed, so that's what it's going to require.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on July 28, 2022, 07:08:45 pm
So if I understand your post as I read it you think not helping Ukraine and letting Russia take as much territory as it wants is not a Pro-Russia position?



Okay,  Based on that philosophy . As far as you  endorsing us sending billions and billions billions of $ to the corrupt Ukes, and based on obviously bigger priorites here, and the financial condition we are in? 

That could be construed as an ANTI-AMERICAN position based on your same logic.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 07:16:43 pm

On the other hand, with all avenues of easy escape cut off, they can simply give the Russians a dose of their own medicine - artillery until there is nothing left but Russian bone-shards dancing in the dust.

I know it would be nice to do, but it's Ukrainian citizens in Kherson as well as invaders and so far Ukraine has tried to avoid killing their own people. Russia has had the advantage because they don't care about human life. They bomb a city into rubble and then roll in.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 07:20:10 pm
Okay,  Based on that philosophy . As far as you  endorsing us sending billions and billions billions of $ to the corrupt Ukes, and based on obviously bigger priorites here, and the financial condition we are in? 

That could be construed as an ANTI-AMERICAN position based on your same logic.

Confusing issues only leads to more confusion.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 28, 2022, 08:02:34 pm
If you follow the threads it's pretty obvious that there is a group of Pro-Russia posters. They are pretty easy to identify. They excuse everything Russia does including invading sovereign countries and then explaining all the carnage can end if Ukraine would just surrender.

Is there anything Biden tells you that you do not believe @bilo  ---- anything at all?  Is there any cover you will not extend to the Biden regime?

Make YOUR case for the US accelerating a proxy war with Russia over yet another border conflict in The Ukraine.  Tell me how the US benefits.

Include YOUR explanation for why neither the EU or NATO want the stench of The Ukraine and its world-class corruption in their organizations ---  and why Europe continues to engage Russia, in spite of the carnage, for their comfort, convenience and economic security.

And, please, explain why you don't give a damn about the added impact this sh*tshow is having on Americans.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 28, 2022, 08:48:31 pm
If it looks like the room is turning, it's because you are the one spinning.

Should have stopped while you were less behind   :laugh:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 28, 2022, 08:57:34 pm
If it looks like the room is turning, it's because you are the one spinning.

When my room starts spinning, it's usually a result of a too-high dose of Canadian Whiskey.

 :drunk:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 08:58:22 pm
Is there anything Biden tells you that you do not believe @bilo  ---- anything at all?  Is there any cover you will not extend to the Biden regime?

Make YOUR case for the US accelerating a proxy war with Russia over yet another border conflict in The Ukraine. Tell me how the US benefits.

Include YOUR explanation for why neither the EU or NATO want the stench of The Ukraine and its world-class corruption in their organizations ---  and why Europe continues to engage Russia, in spite of the carnage, for their comfort, convenience and economic security.

And, please, explain why you don't give a damn about the added impact this sh*tshow is having on Americans.

I guess the initial push to take Kyiv was just a border dispute.

Thanks for making my case.  :yowsa:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 28, 2022, 09:03:01 pm
I guess the initial push to take Kyiv was just a border dispute.

Thanks for making my case.  :yowsa:

They've been attacking Kiev itself the past few days....
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 28, 2022, 09:27:48 pm
I guess the initial push to take Kyiv was just a border dispute.

Thanks for making my case.

Try as hard as you may,  you're just not clever @bilo ----- so present your case or lose the pro-Russia smokescreen you're using to hide the truth that you haven't got even one rational reason for the US to be waist deep in The Ukraine.

Let's have your answers to this  pointing-down     Enlighten us.


Is there anything Biden tells you that you do not believe @bilo  ---- anything at all?  Is there any cover you will not extend to the Biden regime?

Make YOUR case for the US accelerating a proxy war with Russia over yet another border conflict in The Ukraine.  Tell me how the US benefits.

Include YOUR explanation for why neither the EU or NATO want the stench of The Ukraine and its world-class corruption in their organizations ---  and why Europe continues to engage Russia, in spite of the carnage, for their comfort, convenience and economic security.

And, please, explain why you don't give a damn about the added impact this sh*tshow is having on Americans.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 09:28:25 pm
They've been attacking Kiev itself the past few days....

I think anyone who has been paying attention recognizes the Russians are barbarians at the gate.

We have the worst possible admn. to handle this, but those are the cards we were dealt. My biggest concern is Brandon will only supply the Ukrainians with enough to fight to a stand still and our military industrial complex will be enriched in the process. We already know Brandon doesn't have the strength to change his incompetent policies and increase energy production so we can export more to Europe and drive down the world price which would further damage Russia. The best possible solution would be to supply the Ukrainians with everything they need with no restrictions and destroy Russia's ability to endanger their neighbors.

If history is any guide, we are better off stopping barbarians early on rather than later.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 28, 2022, 09:33:23 pm
They've been attacking Kiev itself the past few days....

Maybe you could take a crack at answering the questions raised here   pointing-down   @Cyber Liberty  ??


Make YOUR case for the US accelerating a proxy war with Russia over yet another border conflict in The Ukraine.  Tell me how the US benefits.

Include YOUR explanation for why neither the EU or NATO want the stench of The Ukraine and its world-class corruption in their organizations ---  and why Europe continues to engage Russia, in spite of the carnage, for their comfort, convenience and economic security.

And, please, explain why you don't give a damn about the added impact this sh*tshow is having on Americans.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on July 28, 2022, 09:40:33 pm
"My biggest concern is Brandon will only supply the Ukrainians with enough to fight to a stand still"

You are granting Biden a lot of 'magical power'. What about all of Europe? How is America responsible for a 'stand still'. Regardless of Slow Joe and America, if Europe wanted this war ended, they could end it today. America is not responsible and does not have 'magical powers' to make Ukraine win, or lose, or draw.

(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aKmoQej_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on July 28, 2022, 09:44:26 pm
Maybe you could take a crack at answering the questions raised here   pointing-down   @Cyber Liberty  ??

Nope.  Not playing that game.  I can't.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 28, 2022, 10:13:08 pm
Maybe you could take a crack at answering the questions raised here   pointing-down   @Cyber Liberty  ??

Now there's a pot and kettle moment.

(https://imgs.search.brave.com/qKdPxcF0ZNaVogeL70c0pwScUaAlvlUJyekj9wPxidk/rs:fit:800:600:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9jZG4y/MC5wYXRjaGNkbi5j/b20vdXNlcnMvMjI4/ODk3MjUvMjAxNjEw/MTgvMTIzNTQ0L3N0/eWxlcy9UODAweDYw/MC9wdWJsaWMvYXJ0/aWNsZV9pbWFnZXMv/cG90X2tldHRsZS0x/NDc2ODA4NTMwLTkx/MTkuanBn)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 28, 2022, 10:18:17 pm
This is what the regime you support wthout question has done to the American people:

Lies make Jesus cry.  I do not support this regime in any regard whatsoever.  I have been highly critical throughout this thread on this regime's handling of Ukraine as you damn well know.  Maybe if you paid more attention to what is posted here instead of fantasizing about blowing Putin, maybe you would have a better understanding of my position.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 28, 2022, 10:31:19 pm
Nope.  Not playing that game.  I can't.

It's not a game --- at least not for me @Cyber Liberty   I am trying to understand the unquestioned devotion to Biden's actions --- a man who has been wrong on every foreign policy issue for the past 50 years. 

I am open to being convinced our involvement is in the best military and economic interests of the United States  ----- that we should tread beyond where Europe, itself, is willing to go.

No one has even tried to make this case.   :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 28, 2022, 11:13:03 pm
Moldova says it fears a Russian invasion as more neighbors ring alarm over Ukraine war

https://www.businessinsider.com/moldova-fears-russia-attack-neighbors-up-defenses-after-ukraine-war-2022-7 (https://www.businessinsider.com/moldova-fears-russia-attack-neighbors-up-defenses-after-ukraine-war-2022-7)

•   Moldova's prime minister said her country is afraid Russia could invade it next.

•   She told CNN that the concern is a hypothetical one for now, but it was still a "risk."

•   Moldova, Ukraine's neighbor, is home to a breakaway region backed by Russian forces.

"This is a risk, it's a hypothetical scenario for now, but if the military actions move further into the southwestern part of Ukraine and toward Odesa, then of course, we are very worried."

She highlighted the risk of Russian troops in Transnistria, a Russia-backed region that borders Ukraine and broke away from Moldova in 1992.

A senior Russian commander said in April that Russia wanted to take all of southern Ukraine, which would give it a land connection to Transnistria. Russia has since retreated from much of Ukraine, and is focusing on taking the east.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 28, 2022, 11:50:11 pm
Moldova says it fears a Russian invasion as more neighbors ring alarm over Ukraine war

https://www.businessinsider.com/moldova-fears-russia-attack-neighbors-up-defenses-after-ukraine-war-2022-7 (https://www.businessinsider.com/moldova-fears-russia-attack-neighbors-up-defenses-after-ukraine-war-2022-7)

•   Moldova's prime minister said her country is afraid Russia could invade it next.

•   She told CNN that the concern is a hypothetical one for now, but it was still a "risk."

•   Moldova, Ukraine's neighbor, is home to a breakaway region backed by Russian forces.

"This is a risk, it's a hypothetical scenario for now, but if the military actions move further into the southwestern part of Ukraine and toward Odesa, then of course, we are very worried."

She highlighted the risk of Russian troops in Transnistria, a Russia-backed region that borders Ukraine and broke away from Moldova in 1992.

A senior Russian commander said in April that Russia wanted to take all of southern Ukraine, which would give it a land connection to Transnistria. Russia has since retreated from much of Ukraine, and is focusing on taking the east.

More at link.

The Moldovan PM has every reason to be concerned since Russia already has created a pretext for a "territorial dispute" on Moldova's eastern border.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 29, 2022, 03:05:47 pm
Dozens of Ukrainian POWs killed in missile strike

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-bombs-russian-forces-drive-retake-south-2022-07-28/ (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-bombs-russian-forces-drive-retake-south-2022-07-28/)

Reuters By Max Hunder and Pavel Polityuk 7/29/2022

         Summary

•   Russia, Ukraine trade blame for prisoner deaths

•   UK says Russia deploys Wagner fighters more widely

•   Ukraine says grain ships loaded but no date yet to move

ODESA, Ukraine/KYIV, July 29 (Reuters) - Dozens of Ukrainian prisoners of war appeared to have been killed when a prison building was destroyed in a missile strike on Friday, with Moscow and Kyiv accusing each other of carrying out the attack.

The deaths, some of which were confirmed by Reuters journalists at the damaged prison where the men were held, overshadowed U.N.-backed efforts to restart shipping grain from Ukraine and ease a looming global hunger crisis.

Russia's defence ministry said 40 prisoners were killed and 75 wounded in the attack on the prison, in the frontline town of Olenivka, in a part of Donetsk province held by separatists.

It accused Kyiv of targeting it with U.S.-made HIMARS rockets, Russian news agencies reported.

Ukraine's armed forces denied carrying out the strike, saying Russian artillery had targeted the prison to hide the mistreatment of those held there and lay the blame on Ukraine. Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Russia had committed a war crime and called for international condemnation of the incident.

Reuters TV footage showed the remains of a cavernous burned-out building filled with metal beds, some with charred bodies still lying on them while other bodies were lined up on military stretchers or on the ground outside.

Shell fragments had been laid out on a blue metal bench, apparently so they could be photographed. It was not immediately possible to detect any identifying markings and it was not clear where the fragments had been collected from.

The Russian defence ministry said that the prison housed Ukrainian prisoners of war and that eight prison staff were also wounded. Russian-backed separatist leader Denis Pushilin was quoted saying there were no foreigners among the 193 detainees.

The Ukrainian government has accused Russia of atrocities and brutality against civilians during the invasion and said it has identified more than 10,000 possible war crimes.

Its armed forces general staff said the prison attack was an attempt to shift the blame.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 29, 2022, 04:15:15 pm
I am open to being convinced our involvement is in the best military and economic interests of the United States  ----- that we should tread beyond where Europe, itself, is willing to go.

No one has even tried to make this case.   :shrug:

Pure unadulterated bullshit.  Several posters including myself have been making this exact case here for months now.  Let those who have ears hear.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 29, 2022, 04:54:51 pm
Pure unadulterated bullshit.  Several posters including myself have been making this exact case here for months now. Let those who have ears hear.

 :amen:

The case was made on the first thread very early on.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 29, 2022, 07:16:36 pm
‘Sickening’ video shows gagged Ukrainian POW being castrated

By Lee Brown
July 29, 2022

“Sickening evil” video footage shows a bound and gagged Ukrainian prisoner of war being castrated by Russian soldiers — before he is shot dead and dragged through the street on a rope.

The barbaric footage — confirmed Friday by a Ukrainian politician and journalist — shows camouflaged soldiers allegedly led by Vitaly Aroshanov kicking the distressed soldier in the head as he lies bound by ropes on the floor.

With his mouth gagged, the tortured prisoner moans in desperation as the troops rip his pants to expose his backside.

As he squirms and moans, they use a box cutter to hack away at his genitalia, eventually cutting it off and throwing it on the ground nearby.

“After the torture, he was shot dead and his body dragged through the streets on a rope,” the war news site Ukraine Watch said Friday of a second part of the video, which it refused to share “for ethical reasons.”

The torture first emerged Thursday on several Russian Telegram channels as a sick warning to Ukrainian mothers not to send their sons to war, the Kyiv Post said. The soldiers speak in Russian and stand near a car with the capital letter Z, the symbol used for the Kremlin’s troops.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/29/ukrainian-pow-castrated-by-russians-in-sickening-video/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 30, 2022, 10:01:01 pm
Zelenskyy orders mandatory evacuation of Donetsk region as fighting intensifies

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-zelenskyy-orders-mandatory-evacuation-of-donetsk-region-as-fighting-intensifies-12662533 (https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-zelenskyy-orders-mandatory-evacuation-of-donetsk-region-as-fighting-intensifies-12662533)

Donetsk has seen fierce fighting in recent days, particularly in the eastern town of Bakhmut, which is the focus of the Russian offensive in the Donbas.

Ukraine's president has announced a mandatory evacuation of people in the Donetsk region, amid fierce fighting with Russia.

In his nightly address, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said hundreds of thousands of people still in combat zones in the larger Donbas region also needed to leave.

Mr Zelenskyy said the sooner people leave "the fewer people the Russian army will have time to kill".

He said: "Full support, full assistance - both logistical and payments. We only need a decision from the people themselves, who have not yet made it for themselves. Go, we will help".

More at link
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 30, 2022, 10:05:41 pm
Russia silent as Red Cross, UN demand access to prison where dozens of Ukrainian POWs killed

https://nypost.com/2022/07/30/russia-silent-as-un-red-cross-want-access-where-ukrainian-pows-killed/ (https://nypost.com/2022/07/30/russia-silent-as-un-red-cross-want-access-where-ukrainian-pows-killed/)

The United Nations and the Red Cross demanded access Saturday to the prison where dozens of Ukrainian POWs were killed, but Russia has so far met their requests with silence.

The UN wants to investigate the attack in the town of Olenivka in Russian-occupied eastern Ukraine, which Moscow said killed 53 Ukrainian POWs and wounded another 75. 

Ukraine maintains that Thursday night’s deadly shelling was a “war crime,” while Russia claims Ukraine launched the missiles that destroyed the building. Both sides say the attack was premeditated and intended to silence the prisoners inside and destroy evidence of potential atrocities.

“We are ready to send a team of experts capable of conducting an investigation with the permission of the parties,” Farhan Haq, deputy spokesman of the UN Secretary-General, told Russian media. He said the probe would require consent from all sides, and added that the UN supports the Red Cross’ efforts to gain access to the site.

The prison housed nearly 200 troops captured in Mariupol, the scene of many of the war’s worst atrocities, including many who held out in the Azovstal steel plant outside the city during weeks of brutal fighting.

Late Saturday, Russia’s Defense Ministry issued a list naming 48 Ukrainian fighters who died in the attack, aged 20 to 62. It was not immediately clear if the list was intended to be complete, suggesting that fewer people had died than initially stated, or if some names were missing.

Russia has not yet said when and how the dead soldiers’ bodies might be retrieved, Ukraine’s Human Rights Ombudsman Dmytro Lubinets said.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 30, 2022, 11:39:57 pm
Pedro L. Gonzalez
@emeriticus

Orban says Hungary will stay out of war in Ukraine, labels claims that Russia wants world domination as Western propganda, says Russia tried to avoid this conflict with diplomacy but the West refused negotiate and made all this inevitable.

Hero.

Link to speech:  https://miniszterelnok.hu/speech-by-prime-minister-viktor-orban-at-the-31st-balvanyos-summer-free-university-and-student-camp/

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY80DJ8WYAAYKd6?format=jpg&name=small) (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY80DcXXwAImuL4?format=jpg&name=small)

7:07 PM · Jul 30, 2022  Twitter for Android
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 31, 2022, 12:10:08 am
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Key part of recent speech by Orban. When US officials profess that Ukraine must decide its own fate, its "agency" must be respected, etc. -- they're just deflecting. Because it's the US that is ultimately setting the course of the war, which it chooses to prolong rather than end

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY61ME-WYAMGmLQ?format=jpg&name=small)

10:00 AM · Jul 30, 2022  Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 31, 2022, 12:10:44 am
Russia tried to avoid this conflict with diplomacy but the West refused negotiate and made all this inevitable.

In other news, Big Brother has increased the chocolate ration to 20 grams.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 31, 2022, 12:12:42 am
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Here he refutes the incessantly-repeated talking point that Russia must be thoroughly defeated in Ukraine, otherwise Putin will march on and invade other countries. "Lacks any basis in reality," he says

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY64POXXkAI261Y?format=jpg&name=small)

10:10 AM · Jul 30, 2022  Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 31, 2022, 12:16:20 am
Michael Tracey
@mtracey

He essentially says that Poles, despite the current government ostensibly being ideologically aligned with Hungary, cannot be reasoned with on the war and so he's just given up for the time being

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FY65P7JXoAAZWtk?format=jpg&name=small)

10:12 AM · Jul 30, 2022  Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on July 31, 2022, 12:17:39 am
Link to Orban's full speech:  https://miniszterelnok.hu/speech-by-prime-minister-viktor-orban-at-the-31st-balvanyos-summer-free-university-and-student-camp/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on July 31, 2022, 12:35:26 am
“The paths of Poland and Hungary have diverged,” says Polish PM

https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/07/30/the-paths-of-poland-and-hungary-have-diverged-says-polish-pm/ (https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/07/30/the-paths-of-poland-and-hungary-have-diverged-says-polish-pm/)

Russia’s war in Ukraine has caused the Polish and Hungarian governments, previously close allies, to take divergent paths, Poland’s prime minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, has declared in response to remarks by his Hungarian counterpart Viktor Orbán suggesting that the two sides actually “want exactly the same thing”.

Whereas Warsaw has been one of Kyiv’s strongest allies and advocates, providing large amounts of military and humanitarian aid and calling for tougher sanctions on Russia, Budapest has sought to maintain good relations with Moscow and has opposed some sanctions.

During a visit to Romania last week, Orbán admitted that the war had “shaken Polish-Hungarian cooperation, which was [previously] the axis of cooperation in the Visegrad Group”, a Central European alliance that also includes the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Orbán’s Fidesz party and Morawiecki’s Law and Justice (PiS) have long been close allies, sharing both a similar national-conservative ideology and also supporting one another in their respective clashes with Brussels over issues including the rule of law and refugee relocation quotas.

However, the two parties have always held differing positions on Russia, which have been brought to the fore during the war in Ukraine. In April, PiS chairman Jarosław Kaczyński warned that his party “cannot continue to cooperate [with Fidesz] as we have so far if it continues like this”.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on July 31, 2022, 12:50:18 am
Link to Orban's full speech:  https://miniszterelnok.hu/speech-by-prime-minister-viktor-orban-at-the-31st-balvanyos-summer-free-university-and-student-camp/

Now that Orban has shown himself to be a bootlicker for Putin, I have lost all respect for him.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 31, 2022, 04:07:38 am
Russia recruiting thousands of volunteers to fill gaps in army - reports

18h ago  |  06:00


Russia is currently recruiting thousands of volunteers to supplement its ranks that have been left depleted amid the war, CNN reports.

Analysts believe more than 30,000 volunteers may have signed up to assist in the war effort to help Kremlin forces seize control of eastern Ukraine's Donbas region.

Russia researcher at the Institute for the Study of War in Washington, Kateryna Stepanenko, said the process was being driven by the Kremlin and the qualifications required for joining varied from region to region.

She told CNN: "Some battalions will partake exclusively in combat support and combat support operations (such as logistics or signal battalions), while others will reinforce pre-existing military units or form combat battalions."  .   .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-putin-looting-steel-bound-for-uk-major-deal-to-relieve-food-crisis-to-be-signed-russian-forces-increasing-missile-use-12541713?postid=4227564#liveblog-body
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 31, 2022, 01:59:22 pm
Traumatised mothers of Russian soldiers say their sons who refuse to fight for Kremlin are being held in torture pits

By IAN BIRRELL AND KATE BAKLITSKAYA IN KYIV FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY
30 July 2022

Maksim Kochetkov is being held captive in a penal colony 6,000 miles from his home on an island near Japan – one of the rising number of Russian troops who are prisoners of a war they do not wish to fight.

The 20-year-old is being punished for defying Vladimir Putin’s order to attack Ukraine – like thousands more Russian soldiers, often recruited from outlying and poorer parts of Russia.

His plight underscores the claim by defence officials in the United States last week that there are ‘increased signs of discipline and morale problems in the Russian army’.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11065199/Traumatised-mothers-Russian-soldiers-say-sons-refuse-fight-held-torture-pits.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 31, 2022, 04:24:22 pm
Momentum may soon shift in Ukraine war, experts say

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
July 29, 2022

Embattled Ukraine may get the upper hand in its war with Russia in the coming weeks — with Russian advances flagging in the eastern Donbas region and a Ukrainian counteroffensive underway in the nation’s south, western analysts say.

“It does seem the Russians’ ability for forward movement is petering out,” Phillips O’Brien, a professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, told the Washington Post Friday. “I don’t see them being able to advance much more in the Donbas.”

The assessment matches that of British spymaster Richard Moore, the MI6 chief who predicted last week that Russian forces were “about to run out of steam.”

“Our assessment is that the Russians will increasingly find it difficult to supply manpower [and] materiel over the next few weeks,” Moore said at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado last Thursday.

Meanwhile, he said “[Ukrainian] morale is still high, and they’re starting to receive increasing amounts of good weaponry.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/29/momentum-may-shift-in-ukraine-war-experts-say/?dicbo=v2-81fe0d812a022fef9e03097e119549d8
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on July 31, 2022, 04:28:32 pm
'There is no path out of economic oblivion for Putin': Russia is LOSING financial war with the West, with sanctions catastrophically crippling the country, new report shows

By WALTER FINCH FOR MAILONLINE
29 July 2022

Russia is losing the economic war with the West and its economy is in catastrophic and irrevocable decline even as it cuts off the gas supply to Europe, a new report  has claimed.

As panic spreads across Europe over the prospect of gas rationing and spiralling energy prices, it is in fact Russia which is on the ropes, with business in retreat and sanctions catastrophically crippling their economy.

And while Putin causes panic in European governments by throttling gas supplies, the strategy is unsustainable for the dictator as he burns through reserves and his budget goes into deficit. 

This is the verdict from a Yale-authored report that has looked beyond the Kremlin's cherry-picked economic figures to access private Russian language and other unconventional data sources.

The report looked at high frequency consumer data, cross-channel checks, releases from Russia’s international trade partners and mining of complex shipping data to produce an economic analysis measuring the state of Putin's economy and what the future might have in store for it.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11058709/There-no-path-economic-oblivion-Putin-Russia-LOSING-financial-war-West.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 31, 2022, 05:38:58 pm
'There is no path out of economic oblivion for Putin': Russia is LOSING financial war with the West, with sanctions catastrophically crippling the country, new report shows

By WALTER FINCH FOR MAILONLINE
29 July 2022

Russia is losing the economic war with the West and its economy is in catastrophic and irrevocable decline even as it cuts off the gas supply to Europe, a new report  has claimed.

As panic spreads across Europe over the prospect of gas rationing and spiralling energy prices, it is in fact Russia which is on the ropes, with business in retreat and sanctions catastrophically crippling their economy.

And while Putin causes panic in European governments by throttling gas supplies, the strategy is unsustainable for the dictator as he burns through reserves and his budget goes into deficit. 

This is the verdict from a Yale-authored report that has looked beyond the Kremlin's cherry-picked economic figures to access private Russian language and other unconventional data sources.

The report looked at high frequency consumer data, cross-channel checks, releases from Russia’s international trade partners and mining of complex shipping data to produce an economic analysis measuring the state of Putin's economy and what the future might have in store for it.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11058709/There-no-path-economic-oblivion-Putin-Russia-LOSING-financial-war-West.html

The challenge is to keep the weak sisters in the EU from surrendering to Putin. Instead of laughing at Trump they should have been taking notes. I'm still not getting it why the EU countries haven't increased their purchases from Africa, especially Nigeria. 

It was interesting to learn that the oil production in Siberia after the collapse of the USSR has never been equal to the production from before the collapse. Now that all the top engineering firms have pulled out it raises the question about how much oil Russia can produce to sell to China.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 31, 2022, 05:44:03 pm
The challenge is to keep the weak sisters in the EU from surrendering to Putin. Instead of laughing at Trump they should have been taking notes. I'm still not getting it why the EU countries haven't increased their purchases from Africa, especially Nigeria. 

It was interesting to learn that the oil production in Siberia after the collapse of the USSR has never been equal to the production from before the collapse. Now that all the top engineering firms have pulled out it raises the question about how much oil Russia can produce to sell to China.

That's once reason why Joe has been selling off our reserves.

Yes, they should have taken notes from Trump and obviously it was a huge mistake to kill the Keystone pipeline.  Being energy independent kept us on top of the game.  Now we'll wind up at the bottom of the barrel. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 31, 2022, 05:54:30 pm
That's once reason why Joe has been selling off our reserves.

Yes, they should have taken notes from Trump and obviously it was a huge mistake to kill the Keystone pipeline.  Being energy independent kept us on top of the game. Now we'll wind up at the bottom of the barrel.

Don't be so gloomy the trend is in our favor.

The WEF, EU and Rats talk a good game about globalization but the trend is towards deglobalization. We are moving back towards an era where countries have the majority of their supply chains in nation, or very close. The USA has great agricultural resources, more navigable water ways than the rest of the world, huge shale oil/natural gas reserves and our number one trading partner is on or southern border. It takes about 3 months to get shale drilling up and running. We will regain our sanity and the Rats will be marginalized. The greatest challenge will come in reforming the civil service, but it will get done!

Now if we can aid Ukraine in defeating Russia the need to remain in NATO is greatly diminished and we can focus on only helping those nations that help us.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 31, 2022, 06:01:27 pm
Don't be so gloomy the trend is in our favor.

The WEF, EU and Rats talk a good game about globalization but the trend is towards deglobalization. We are moving back towards an era where countries have the majority of their supply chains in nation, or very close. The USA has great agricultural resources, more navigable water ways than the rest of the world, huge shale oil/natural gas reserves and our number one trading partner is on or southern border. It takes about 3 months to get shale drilling up and running. We will regain our sanity and the Rats will be marginalized. The greatest challenge will come in reforming the civil service, but it will get done!

Now if we can aid Ukraine in defeating Russia the need to remain in NATO is greatly diminished and we can focus on only helping those nations that help us.

Well your perspective is very optimistic.  The reality IMHO is we are no longer energy independent, shelves are bare, inflation is through the roof and a push for going green is still on going. Not to mention the destruction that ILLEGALS are having on our country. To boot we are in a recession (I think we're heading towards a depression).

Sorry, but the attention and $$ should be going towards making this country great and staying afloat instead of increasing our debt -- then we can help with situations like the one in Ukraine. 

If we fall, we're not going to be able to help Ukraine and then all the billions spent and handing over our weapons will be for not and will in fact prove extremely detrimental.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 31, 2022, 06:13:31 pm
Well your perspective is very optimistic.  The reality IMHO is we are no longer energy independent, shelves are bare, inflation is through the roof and a push for going green is still on going. Not to mention the destruction that ILLEGALS are having on our country. To boot we are in a recession (I think we're heading towards a depression).

Sorry, but the attention and $$ should be going towards making this country great and staying afloat instead of increasing our debt -- then we can help with situations like the one in Ukraine. 

If we fall, we're not going to be able to help Ukraine and then all the billions spent and handing over our weapons will be for not and will in fact prove extremely detrimental.


I realize it's always easier to be negative and concentrate on the present, but the future is good! The leftists have gone so insane even independents are looking towards the Pubs. Who dominates the Pub party? It's the America First deplorables.

I specifically mentioned how long it takes to get Shale oil production going to let you know that our current energy mess is not permanent and can be turned around quickly.

The Pubs will take back the House in 2022. The Pubs might take the Senate in 2022. The Pubs will take back the Presidency in 2024. Along with these big gains will be the demands of the American public to reverse course. We have a deep bench and clear vision. It's going to be okay!

Lets see Russia pushed out of Ukraine and then get out of NATO.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 31, 2022, 06:23:26 pm

I realize it's always easier to be negative and concentrate on the present, but the future is good! The leftists have gone so insane even independents are looking towards the Pubs. Who dominates the Pub party? It's the America First deplorables.

I specifically mentioned how long it takes to get Shale oil production going to let you know that our current energy mess is not permanent and can be turned around quickly.

The Pubs will take back the House in 2022. The Pubs might take the Senate in 2022. The Pubs will take back the Presidency in 2024. Along with these big gains will be the demands of the American public to reverse course. We have a deep bench and clear vision. It's going to be okay!

Lets see Russia pushed out of Ukraine and then get out of NATO.

Yes, @bilo what you are proposing and laying out is very feasible. Shale oil production (which I learned about on a trip to CO in 2003) should have been on the template long, long ago and we should have been energy independent long before Trump took office.

That's not reality anymore. Yes,the left's lunacy is crippling this country.  That's obvious.

They also still stole an election. The GOP/RNC have done nothing to ensure that another election isn't stolen and to think that the GOP is going to come in and save the day is not realistic.  Remember they are the party that had a full majority for years and did nothing!

The DEMS are not going to give up their stranglehold on this country. It's just not going to happen.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on July 31, 2022, 07:11:44 pm
Well your perspective is very optimistic.  The reality IMHO is we are no longer energy independent, shelves are bare, inflation is through the roof and a push for going green is still on going. Not to mention the destruction that ILLEGALS are having on our country. To boot we are in a recession (I think we're heading towards a depression).

None of that has a thing to do with Ukraine.


Sorry, but the attention and $$ should be going towards making this country great and staying afloat instead of increasing our debt -- then we can help with situations like the one in Ukraine.

The best thing we can do is to drill, drill, drill, to drive down the price of oil.  That will hurt Russia more than anything.  And it will help us.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 31, 2022, 07:21:26 pm
None of that has a thing to do with Ukraine.


The best thing we can do is to drill, drill, drill, to drive down the price of oil.  That will hurt Russia more than anything.  And it will help us.

That you and I agree on.  Drill, drill drill. Yet, you and I both know, Joe is not interested in doing anything to help this country.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 31, 2022, 09:45:53 pm
'There is no path out of economic oblivion for Putin': Russia is LOSING financial war with the West, with sanctions catastrophically crippling the country, new report shows

By WALTER FINCH FOR MAILONLINE
29 July 2022

Russia is losing the economic war with the West and its economy is in catastrophic and irrevocable decline even as it cuts off the gas supply to Europe, a new report  has claimed.

 

@Kamaji

And,to quote a famous tv show line,"Winter is coming".

If the Muddle East agrees to supply Europe with heating oil,Putin's government is toast.

I just hope the "second tier" Russian leadership in the Politburo "man up" and force him out of office before that lunatic loses his grip and uses tactical nukes.

I have a serious suspicion that Putin is NEVER going to resign from power,and is going to have to be physically removed by the Politburo.

I wonder who is going to end up owning that big-ass yacht he had built that is stuck at the shipyard now that the country it was built in has refused to take down a bridge so it can get out of the shipyard,and into the sea?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 31, 2022, 09:48:26 pm
That's once reason why Joe has been selling off our reserves.

Yes, they should have taken notes from Trump and obviously it was a huge mistake to kill the Keystone pipeline.  Being energy independent kept us on top of the game.  Now we'll wind up at the bottom of the barrel.

@libertybele

You don't think that was at the core of the plan to destroy America and become a cog the "World Wide Government,Inc" machine?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on July 31, 2022, 09:51:44 pm
Don't be so gloomy the trend is in our favor.

The WEF, EU and Rats talk a good game about globalization but the trend is towards deglobalization. We are moving back towards an era where countries have the majority of their supply chains in nation, or very close. The USA has great agricultural resources, more navigable water ways than the rest of the world, huge shale oil/natural gas reserves and our number one trading partner is on or southern border. It takes about 3 months to get shale drilling up and running. We will regain our sanity and the Rats will be marginalized. The greatest challenge will come in reforming the civil service, but it will get done!

Now if we can aid Ukraine in defeating Russia the need to remain in NATO is greatly diminished and we can focus on only helping those nations that help us.

@bilo

If we can manage to eliminate the former,and potential future "USSR",the only real threat to world peace will be China.

Which can/will result in a huge reduction in military budgets for every nation in the western world.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: LMAO on July 31, 2022, 09:58:01 pm

I realize it's always easier to be negative and concentrate on the present, but the future is good! The leftists have gone so insane even independents are looking towards the Pubs. Who dominates the Pub party? It's the America First deplorables.

I specifically mentioned how long it takes to get Shale oil production going to let you know that our current energy mess is not permanent and can be turned around quickly.

The Pubs will take back the House in 2022. The Pubs might take the Senate in 2022. The Pubs will take back the Presidency in 2024. Along with these big gains will be the demands of the American public to reverse course. We have a deep bench and clear vision. It's going to be okay!

Lets see Russia pushed out of Ukraine and then get out of NATO.


Preach it!!!

I’ve been saying the same things
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on July 31, 2022, 10:02:45 pm
@libertybele

You don't think that was at the core of the plan to destroy America and become a cog the "World Wide Government,Inc" machine?

Of course it is.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 31, 2022, 11:45:47 pm
@bilo

If we can manage to eliminate the former,and potential future "USSR",the only real threat to world peace will be China.

Which can/will result in a huge reduction in military budgets for every nation in the western world.

I'm with you 100%!

It's just one of many reasons we should supply Ukraine with the weapons to win the war.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on July 31, 2022, 11:48:10 pm

Preach it!!!

I’ve been saying the same things

I think there are a lot of us who see the bigger trend. It's just so easy to get caught up in the negative.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 01, 2022, 12:40:18 am
I wonder who is going to end up owning that big-ass yacht he had built that is stuck at the shipyard now that the country it was built in has refused to take down a bridge so it can get out of the shipyard,and into the sea?

Putin's yacht was seized in Italy.

The yacht you're thinking of is the one built for Jeff Bezos in Rotterdam.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 01, 2022, 01:29:07 am

BizPac
Putin targets USA in new Russian Navy doctrine, as fresh scrutiny arises over his limp, and right arm use
July 31, 2022 | Robert Jonathan

A new video has prompted more conjecture about the health status of Vladimir Putin, president of the Russian Federation.

Online sleuths claim that the footage, in which Putin — somewhat unnaturally — swats away mosquitoes from the right side of his face or neck with left hand, while his right hand remained immobile.

The clip embedded below is notable because the dictator is said to be right-handed. This particular occasion was a tour of military museum conducted by Ksenia Shoigu, daughter of Russia’s Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

Unconfirmed theories have previously emerged that Putin, 69, an ex-KGB officer who has projected an image of a macho martial artist during his time as the Russian leader, is suffering from blood cancer, thyroid cancer, Parkinson’s disease, or other maladies.

(more)
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/07/31/putin-targets-usa-in-new-russian-navy-doctrine-as-fresh-scrutiny-arises-over-his-limp-and-right-arm-use-1268347/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 01, 2022, 01:55:35 am
Putin's yacht was seized in Italy.

The yacht you're thinking of is the one built for Jeff Bezos in Rotterdam.

@Elderberry

Really? I would have sworn it was Putin's yacht.

BTW,what do the Old Soviets still in the Politburo think about Putin having a private yacht?

BTW,why did the Italians seize Putin's yacht
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 01, 2022, 01:57:42 am
BizPac
Putin targets USA in new Russian Navy doctrine, as fresh scrutiny arises over his limp, and right arm use
July 31, 2022 | Robert Jonathan

A new video has prompted more conjecture about the health status of Vladimir Putin, president of the Russian Federation.

Online sleuths claim that the footage, in which Putin — somewhat unnaturally — swats away mosquitoes from the right side of his face or neck with left hand, while his right hand remained immobile.

The clip embedded below is notable because the dictator is said to be right-handed. This particular occasion was a tour of military museum conducted by Ksenia Shoigu, daughter of Russia’s Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu.

Unconfirmed theories have previously emerged that Putin, 69, an ex-KGB officer who has projected an image of a macho martial artist during his time as the Russian leader, is suffering from blood cancer, thyroid cancer, Parkinson’s disease, or other maladies.

(more)
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/07/31/putin-targets-usa-in-new-russian-navy-doctrine-as-fresh-scrutiny-arises-over-his-limp-and-right-arm-use-1268347/

@240B

He might have had a stroke if he has lost the use of an arm. Has he given any televised speeches lately,and if he did,was his speech garbled?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 01, 2022, 02:16:07 am
@Elderberry

BTW,why did the Italians seize Putin's yacht

@sneakypete

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/putin-alleged-super-yacht-seized-italy (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/putin-alleged-super-yacht-seized-italy)

The yacht was seized under coordinated measures with the European Union due to Russia's involvement in "undermining or threatening the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine."

https://www.mef.gov.it/en/ufficio-stampa/comunicati/2022/Adopted-the-freezing-decree-of-the-boat-Scheherazade-00001/ (https://www.mef.gov.it/en/ufficio-stampa/comunicati/2022/Adopted-the-freezing-decree-of-the-boat-Scheherazade-00001/)

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 01, 2022, 02:39:12 am
Russian official says Ukraine carried out drone attack on Black Sea fleet HQ

https://www.fijitimes.com/russian-official-says-ukraine-carried-out-drone-attack-on-black-sea-fleet-hq/ (https://www.fijitimes.com/russian-official-says-ukraine-carried-out-drone-attack-on-black-sea-fleet-hq/)

A senior official in Russian-annexed Crimea accused Ukraine on Sunday of carrying out a drone attack ahead of planned celebrations to mark Navy Day, injuring five and forcing the cancellation of festivities.

The accusation comes hours before Russian President Vladimir Putin is due to oversee Navy Day celebrations in his hometown of St Petersburg and approve Russia’s naval doctrine as Moscow presses on with its military intervention in Ukraine.

“An unidentified object flew into the courtyard of the fleet’s headquarters,” Mikhail Razvozhayev, governor of Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea fleet, wrote on the Telegram messaging app.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 01, 2022, 03:07:26 am
“An unidentified object flew into the courtyard of the fleet’s headquarters,” Mikhail Razvozhayev, governor of Sevastopol, home to Russia’s Black Sea fleet, wrote on the Telegram messaging app.

Maybe Russia should reconsider the wisdom of basing their Black Sea fleet in a Ukrainian port.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 01, 2022, 07:56:00 am
Don't be so gloomy the trend is in our favor.

The WEF, EU and Rats talk a good game about globalization but the trend is towards deglobalization. We are moving back towards an era where countries have the majority of their supply chains in nation, or very close. The USA has great agricultural resources, more navigable water ways than the rest of the world, huge shale oil/natural gas reserves and our number one trading partner is on or southern border. It takes about 3 months to get shale drilling up and running. We will regain our sanity and the Rats will be marginalized. The greatest challenge will come in reforming the civil service, but it will get done!

Now if we can aid Ukraine in defeating Russia the need to remain in NATO is greatly diminished and we can focus on only helping those nations that help us.
Drillers in this area are having trouble getting hands, and it is summertime.
Manpower remains short, through drilling and frac crews, workover rigs, and truck drivers, and most any job in the patch. If people want a job, they can get one, especially if they have a CDL, just pee clean.

We have about 36 rigs running in North Dakota right now (double 1 year ago), and have been drilling wells at a good rate (about 10 days from spud to TD on a 1280 acre spacing, with 9500 ft. of lateral in zone).

The problem remains takeaway capacity, pipeline or rail, and this Administration has been about as hostile toward new infrastructure, or expansion of existing infrastructure as it gets.

Our biggest obstacle remains the people in DC, at BLM (Bureau of Land Management) USFWS, Interior Dept., DOE and EPA.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 01, 2022, 11:32:30 am
Ex-Putin advisor Anatoly Chubais suddenly sick from rare neurological disorder

By David Propper
July 31, 2022

A former high-ranking advisor to Russian President Vladimir Putin — who fled the country after the invasion of Ukraine — has fallen seriously ill and was in intensive care Sunday, a report said.

Anatoly Chubais was suffering from a neurological disorder at a European hospital, according to Ksenia Sobchak, a Russian television personality and friend of Chubais.

Sobchak, on Telegram, spoke with Chubais’ wife and was told he was suffering from Guillain-Barre syndrome.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Guillain-Barre occurs when a person’s immune system harms the body’s nerves, which can lead to muscle weakness and even paralysis.

Chubais, 67, had grown numb in his hands and legs. Specialists in “chemical protection suits” probed the room where he suddenly got sick, according to the New York Times.

Chubais did not explain why he stepped down from his post in March, though the assumption is it was due to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on Feb. 24. His high-profile resignation was one of many following the start of the war.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/31/ex-putin-advisor-anatoly-chubais-suddenly-sick-from-rare-neurological-disorder/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 01, 2022, 11:54:28 am
Lebanon Seizes Ship Loaded With Stolen Ukrainian Grain

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52143 (https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52143)

A small story with possibly big implications:

    Lebanon has seized a ship loaded with barley and wheat flour while it determines whether the cargo may have been stolen from Ukraine, said Public Prosecutor Ghassan Oueidat.

    The Ukrainian Embassy in Beirut said the vessel was loaded at Feodosia in the Russian-occupied peninsula of Crimea, and that the commodities originated from Zaporizhzhia, Mykolaiv and Kherson in southeastern Ukraine.

    The embassy accused Russia of stealing more than 500,000 tons during its occupation of the three regions. While Russia denies stealing grain, it has publicly touted the resumption of grain shipments from occupied ports.

    Grain shipments from Crimea have surged since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine in February, which analysts say indicates Ukrainian grain is being exported. Exports from Crimea are sanctioned by the European Union and the U.S..

    The cargo ship Laodicea arrived at Tripoli in northern Lebanon on July 27, according to ship-tracking data monitored by Bloomberg. It will be held while Lebanon carries out an investigation into the cargo’s origin, Oueidat told Bloomberg.

Supposedly the seizure is limited to 72 hours. We’ll see.

    The ship’s registered owner is Syria Mar Shipping Ltd., according to European database Equasis. Syria Mar Shipping Ltd. wasn’t immediately available to comment. Both the company and the ship were sanctioned by the U.S. in 2015 for their association with the Syrian government of President Bashar Assad.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 01, 2022, 01:13:53 pm
One of Ukraine’s richest men killed after Russian missile hit his home

https://nypost.com/2022/07/31/one-of-ukraines-richest-men-oleksiy-vadaturksy-killed-in-strike/ (https://nypost.com/2022/07/31/one-of-ukraines-richest-men-oleksiy-vadaturksy-killed-in-strike/)

One of Ukraine’s richest and most prominent businessmen was killed in what Kyiv said was a targeted Russian bombardment on his home.

Grain exporter Oleksiy Vadaturksy, 74, and his wife Raisa died after a missile slammed into their home in the southern city of Mykolaiv Saturday night, according to the BBC.

Vadaturksy owned Ukrainian agricultural company Nibulon, and was considered one of the war-torn nation’s most successful business figures.

Mykolaiv, which lies on the route to the critical port of Odessa, has undergone fierce Russian shelling since the country launched its invasion in February.

An adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymy Zelensky asserted that Vadaturksy was targeted by Russian forces and that the missile landed in his home’s bedroom.

(https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/07/ukraine-crisis_nibulon-owner2.jpg?quality=75&strip=all)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 01, 2022, 02:05:34 pm
@sneakypete

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/putin-alleged-super-yacht-seized-italy (https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/putin-alleged-super-yacht-seized-italy)

The yacht was seized under coordinated measures with the European Union due to Russia's involvement in "undermining or threatening the territorial integrity, sovereignty and independence of Ukraine."

https://www.mef.gov.it/en/ufficio-stampa/comunicati/2022/Adopted-the-freezing-decree-of-the-boat-Scheherazade-00001/ (https://www.mef.gov.it/en/ufficio-stampa/comunicati/2022/Adopted-the-freezing-decree-of-the-boat-Scheherazade-00001/)

@Elderberry

Thank you. I didn't have any idea the EU had the stones to do something like that.

Then again,WHY does the leader of a socialist state even own a yacht,and where did the money come from?

Theoretical question because as we all know that a life-long dedicated commie member of the USSR intelligence bureau that he would never even DREAM of owning a yacht unless everybody could afford to own a yacht.

BTW,WHY have none of the old commies in the Politburo raised hell about this?

Could it be because they weren't the dedicated commies that pretended to be,but wealthy slave masters exploiting their country's wealth and enslaved people,instead?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 01, 2022, 02:09:19 pm


 
The problem remains takeaway capacity, pipeline or rail, and this Administration has been about as hostile toward new infrastructure, or expansion of existing infrastructure as it gets.

Our biggest obstacle remains the people in DC, at BLM (Bureau of Land Management) USFWS, Interior Dept., DOE and EPA.

@Smokin Joe

Ahm shocked! SHOCKED,AH TELLS YA?

Hooda evur thunk a peeppulls prisidint lak Joe wood do sumptin lik dat?

An to thik dat ah tok a day offen ob graduite skool to vote fur him!

Why,I neva.........!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 01, 2022, 02:16:26 pm
Lebanon Seizes Ship Loaded With Stolen Ukrainian Grain

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52143 (https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52143)

A small story with possibly big implications:

    Lebanon has seized a ship loaded with barley and wheat flour while it determines whether the cargo may have been stolen from Ukraine, said Public Prosecutor Ghassan Oueidat.

    The Ukrainian Embassy in Beirut said the vessel was loaded at Feodosia in the Russian-occupied peninsula of Crimea, and that the commodities originated from Zaporizhzhia, Mykolaiv and Kherson in southeastern Ukraine.

   

@Elderberry

When a tiny little country has the stones to stand up to a superpower bully like the "New and Improved USSR",that tells a story.

At times it almost seems like Putin is a double agent,working for the west to destroy the military power and influence of Russia,doesn't it?

Is it even possible for someone in his position to do things THIS freaking stupid and not understand the implications?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 02, 2022, 01:59:56 am
@Smokin Joe

Ahm shocked! SHOCKED,AH TELLS YA?

Hooda evur thunk a peeppulls prisidint lak Joe wood do sumptin lik dat?

An to thik dat ah tok a day offen ob graduite skool to vote fur him!

Why,I neva.........!
I know, right? After all he promised he'd do that, and we all know they never keep their promises... :shrug:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 02, 2022, 02:01:09 am
@Elderberry

When a tiny little country has the stones to stand up to a superpower bully like the "New and Improved USSR",that tells a story.

At times it almost seems like Putin is a double agent,working for the west to destroy the military power and influence of Russia,doesn't it?

Is it even possible for someone in his position to do things THIS freaking stupid and not understand the implications?
Not the West, unless it is the WEF...promised his piece of the pie to bring down the rest, just like the rest.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 03:19:24 am
Not the West, unless it is the WEF...promised his piece of the pie to bring down the rest, just like the rest.

@Smokin Joe

Maybe I am having a brain fart,but I have no idea what the "WEF" is.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 02, 2022, 03:35:53 am
@Smokin Joe

Maybe I am having a brain fart,but I have no idea what the "WEF" is.
World Economic Forum the Davos crowd of "elites" who really want the rest of us to live like medieval peasants (serfs). Y'know, the "You will own nothing and be happy" crowd.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 03:43:12 am
World Economic Forum the Davos crowd of "elites" who really want the rest of us to live like medieval peasants (serfs). Y'know, the "You will own nothing and be happy" crowd.

@Smokin Joe

Got it!

Thank you,and I am in total agreement on your opinion of the Davos crowd!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 02, 2022, 12:37:15 pm
Russian forces shelling from cover of Ukrainian nuclear plant: report

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
August 1, 2022

Russian forces are shelling towns in southern Ukraine from a position inside Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, according to a report Monday.

Russian artillery firing from within the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant on the Dnipro River doesn’t fear reprisal, Ukrainian officials say, because the collateral damage of a Ukrainian strike could be catastrophic, the New York Times reported.

“They are hiding there so they cannot be hit,” said Oleksandr Sayuk, the mayor of Nikopol – -a Ukrainian town across the river from the plant, told the newspaper.

“Why else would they be at the electrical station? To use such an object as a shield is very dangerous.”

The power plant — some 75 miles downriver from the Ukrainian-controlled city of the same name — contains six nuclear reactors, among which the Russians have built a small outpost after seizing control in early March.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/08/01/russian-forces-shelling-from-ukrainian-nuclear-plant-report/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 02, 2022, 12:54:55 pm
Ukraine reclaims 46 settlements as Putin's troops are forced to give up territory throughout Kherson region amid Kyiv's counter-offensive

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
1 August 2022

Ukraine has recaptured dozens of southern settlements from Russia as Kyiv's forces lay the groundwork for a major counter-attack against Kherson city.

Dmytro Butriy, head of the Kherson region, said Kyiv's men have liberated 46 occupied settlements within the last 24 hours, mostly in the north.

But at least some are located to the south, along the Black Sea coast which is close to the city itself. Russia struck back by hitting Mykolaiv - down the coast from Kherson - with artillery overnight, destroying a medical centre.

Ukraine has previously boasted that the whole of Kherson - city and region - will be back under its control by September, in what would be a hammer blow for Putin.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11069451/Ukraine-reclaims-46-settlements-Putins-troops-Kherson-region.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 02, 2022, 12:56:36 pm
Putin says ‘there can be no winners in nuclear war, it should never be started’

By REUTERS and TOM BROWN FOR MAILONLINE
1 August 2022

Vladimir Putin has said a nuclear war must 'never be started' following heightened tension between Moscow and NATO in light of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

'As a state party to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and one of its depositaries, Russia is consistently complying with the letter and the spirit of the Treaty,' Putin said in a letter to participants of a conference on the treaty in New York.

'We proceed from the fact that there can be no winners in a nuclear war and it should never be unleashed, and we stand for equal and indivisible security for all members of the world community.'

UN head Antonio Guterres warned on the same day that humanity was 'just one miscalculation away from nuclear annihilation,' with the world facing a threat 'not seen since the height of the Cold War.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11069757/Putin-says-no-winners-nuclear-war-never-started.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 01:24:55 pm
Russian forces shelling from cover of Ukrainian nuclear plant: report

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
August 1, 2022

Russian forces are shelling towns in southern Ukraine from a position inside Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, according to a report Monday.

Russian artillery firing from within the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant on the Dnipro River doesn’t fear reprisal, Ukrainian officials say, because the collateral damage of a Ukrainian strike could be catastrophic, the New York Times reported.

“They are hiding there so they cannot be hit,” said Oleksandr Sayuk, the mayor of Nikopol – -a Ukrainian town across the river from the plant, told the newspaper.

“Why else would they be at the electrical station? To use such an object as a shield is very dangerous.”

The power plant — some 75 miles downriver from the Ukrainian-controlled city of the same name — contains six nuclear reactors, among which the Russians have built a small outpost after seizing control in early March.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/08/01/russian-forces-shelling-from-ukrainian-nuclear-plant-report/

@Kamaji

Ahhh,the Ruskies!

Ain't NOBODY that knows better how to win international hearts and minds so their cause can be seen in a favorable light than them,is there?

After all,Genghis Khan,Hitler,and Stalin are all long dead.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 01:39:18 pm
Russian forces shelling from cover of Ukrainian nuclear plant: report

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
August 1, 2022

Russian forces are shelling towns in southern Ukraine from a position inside Europe’s largest nuclear power plant, according to a report Monday.

Russian artillery firing from within the Zaporizhzhya nuclear power plant on the Dnipro River doesn’t fear reprisal, Ukrainian officials say, because the collateral damage of a Ukrainian strike could be catastrophic, the New York Times reported.

Why does this bother you so much? 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 01:44:50 pm
Why does this bother you so much?

@Right_in_Virginia

A better question is "Why DOESN'T it bother you?"

Seems like you are taking a potential neo-Soviet loss personally.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 01:45:09 pm
@Kamaji

Ahhh,the Ruskies!

Ain't NOBODY that knows better how to win international hearts and minds so their cause can be seen in a favorable light than them,is there?

After all,Genghis Khan,Hitler,and Stalin are all long dead.

What has this  pointing-up   to do with the Russians reportedly shelling from the safe haven of a power plant @sneakypete ?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 01:46:09 pm
What has this  pointing-up   to do with the Russians reportedly shelling from the safe haven of a power plant @sneakypete ?


@
@Right_in_Virginia

Celebrating a potential neo-Soviet victory,comrade?

If not,maybe you can get a teen,or someone else better informed,to explain it to you?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 01:51:42 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

A better question is "Why DOESN'T it bother you?"

Seems like you are taking a potential neo-Soviet loss personally.

Do you understand that the Russians made a strategic decision to fire from a safe haven.  Wouldn't we seek to do the same thing?  @sneakypete
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 01:57:12 pm

@
@Right_in_Virginia

Celebrating a potential neo-Soviet victory,comrade?

Good discussion, @sneakypete  ..... As insightful, honest and enlightening as always.    88devil
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 02, 2022, 02:20:17 pm
Good discussion, @sneakypete  ..... As insightful, honest and enlightening as always.    88devil

lol...  Not the first of the "duped" to call us "comrades" just because we are more pro-American than pro-Ukranian.

You'd think at least a 1/3 have been listening to Tucker Carlson's op-eds on the matter. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 02, 2022, 02:23:06 pm
Putin says ‘there can be no winners in nuclear war, it should never be started’

By REUTERS and TOM BROWN FOR MAILONLINE
1 August 2022

Vladimir Putin has said a nuclear war must 'never be started' following heightened tension between Moscow and NATO in light of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

'As a state party to the Non-Proliferation Treaty and one of its depositaries, Russia is consistently complying with the letter and the spirit of the Treaty,' Putin said in a letter to participants of a conference on the treaty in New York.

'We proceed from the fact that there can be no winners in a nuclear war and it should never be unleashed, and we stand for equal and indivisible security for all members of the world community.'

UN head Antonio Guterres warned on the same day that humanity was 'just one miscalculation away from nuclear annihilation,' with the world facing a threat 'not seen since the height of the Cold War.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11069757/Putin-says-no-winners-nuclear-war-never-started.html
Right up until Iran lobs one in...maybe not at Israel, but at Russia, hoping to provoke a major exchange.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 02, 2022, 02:26:30 pm
Do you understand that the Russians made a strategic decision to fire from a safe haven.  Wouldn't we seek to do the same thing?  @sneakypete
"Safe haven"?

Seriously?

Like launching missiles from schoolyards in Gaza, only a thousand times worse.

Hopefully, the Ukrainians will get within switchblade drone range and eliminate this nonsense without causing a major nuclear release.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 02, 2022, 02:34:41 pm
Do you understand that the Russians made a strategic decision to fire from a safe haven.  Wouldn't we seek to do the same thing? @sneakypete

Israel doesn't base their attacks from refugee camps, the Pallies do that.  We would not either, so your point is not valid.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 02:56:25 pm
Do you understand that the Russians made a strategic decision to fire from a safe haven.  Wouldn't we seek to do the same thing?  @sneakypete

@Right_in_Virginia

As a squad or platoon leader under enemy fire and needing cover at that moment,almost certainly.

As a commander,there is no way in hell I would do that in shooting war due to the political fallout,and the potential damage it would do to our cause.

Not that this has ever been a consideration for Russians. Check out the WW-2 "Red Army Blocking Squads" for proof of how cheap the Soviet leadership holds the lives of their troops.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 02, 2022, 02:58:59 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

As a squad or platoon leader,almost certainly.

As a commander,there is no way in hell I would do that in shooting war due to the political fallout,and the potential damage it would do to our cause.

So you view the situation in Ukraine as "Our Cause"?

I don't what your tax liability is, but from my perspective, and my tax dollars going to this boondoggle.....   Hell No.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 02:59:04 pm
lol...  Not the first of the "duped" to call us "comrades" just because we are more pro-American than pro-Ukranian.

You'd think at least a 1/3 have been listening to Tucker Carlson's op-eds on the matter.

@catfish1957

Calling me "duped" only proves what a clueless fool you really are.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 02, 2022, 03:01:47 pm
@catfish1957

Calling me "duped" only proves what a clueless fool you really are.

Zero of my tax dollars should be going to Zellinski's slush fund.

Sorry, I offended you.

Maybe I can send you some blue and teal Zellinsky autographed knee pads as a peace offering.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 03:04:09 pm
So you view the situation in Ukraine as "Our Cause"?

I don't what your tax liability is, but from my perspective, and my tax dollars going to this boondoggle.....   Hell No.

@catfish1957

Causen "hit's all about me,me,ME,DAMMIT!",right?

None are so blind as the selfish and ignorant fools that can't see the fiscal,human,and emotional advantages to the US and the whole freaking world the defeat of the Russian Army and the collapse of neo-Sovietism would bring to the entire world.

Well,maybe not to the defense contractors,but to everyone else.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 02, 2022, 03:11:08 pm
@catfish1957

Causen "hit's all about me,me,ME,DAMMIT!",right?

None are so blind as the selfish and ignorant fools that can't see the fiscal,human,and emotional advantages to the US and the whole freaking world the defeat of the Russian Army and the collapse of neo-Sovietism would bring to the entire world.

Well,maybe not to the defense contractors,but to everyone else.

Russia has the 11th largest GDP in the world, and is dropping like a rock in that perspective. There are a number of countries in the EU that have stronger economies.  Why won't these folks manage the Russian threat? 

What I find hilarious, is your (rightful) hatred of "W", and his and his dim complicit lackeys who thrust the concept of NWO and nation building on us, while wasting trillions of dollars from our treasury.  And still........

You continue to help perpetuate this concept.  Because.....   Guess who gets to rebuild Ukraine after this is over?

I wish the Ukranian people all the best, and hope they continue to beat the Russians back.  But....   Not on my dime.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 03:23:55 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

As a squad or platoon leader under enemy fire and needing cover at that moment,almost certainly.

As a commander,there is no way in hell I would do that in shooting war due to the political fallout,and the potential damage it would do to our cause

Are you saying for the US military our commitment to fight for victory "depends" on politics @sneakypete   ----- and that *you* support this?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 02, 2022, 03:40:13 pm
Are you saying for the US military our commitment to fight for victory "depends" on politics @sneakypete   ----- and that *you* support this?

Absolutely politics and war are inextricably linked.

Carl von Clausewitz:  "WAR IS A MERE CONTINUATION OF POLICY BY OTHER MEANS."
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 03:44:23 pm
Why does this bother you so much?

Because it is evil.  'Evil' bothers me.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 03:47:47 pm
What has this  pointing-up   to do with the Russians reportedly actually shelling civilians, women and children, from the safe haven of a power plant @sneakypete ?

Fixed for accuracy.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 03:49:46 pm
Do you understand that the Russians made a strategic decision to fire from a safe haven.

To fire at civilians.  And you call that "strategic"?


Wouldn't we seek to do the same thing?  @sneakypete

No.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 02, 2022, 03:50:25 pm
Fixed for accuracy.

Yep, very despicable, and something the UK, Germany, Italy, France, and others in EU should be addressing. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 03:53:00 pm
Check out the WW-2 "Red Army Blocking Squads" for proof of how cheap the Soviet leadership holds the lives of their troops.

Exactly, @sneakypete

Knowing how they treat their own, it is no surprise that they are committing wholesale atrocities throughout Ukraine against what Putin calls "nazis and drug addicts".  People this evil are not capable of "liberating" anyone.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 03:56:46 pm
Zero of my tax dollars should be going to Zellinski's slush fund.

Been saying that for months now.  Unfortunately, the American regime leader seems only interested in funding the slush fund (which he started), and not the weapons fund.  Ukraine has asked for one thing and one thing only from the US.  And that is the capability to defeat Russia on the battlefield.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 02, 2022, 04:02:53 pm
Been saying that for months now.  Unfortunately, the American regime leader seems only interested in funding the slush fund (which he started), and not the weapons fund.  Ukraine has asked for one thing and one thing only from the US.  And that is the capability to defeat Russia on the battlefield.

Too bad, we don't have some form of covert intelligence action that we can arm the general population, and make them a citizen guerrilla army. Make the Russians fear every door they open.

That way we can bypass the Uke politcal system.  I'd be all for that!!!!!!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 04:13:50 pm
Fixed for accuracy.

Post a link to your drippings on my original post -----  or stand down
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 04:15:02 pm
Absolutely politics and war are inextricably linked.

This wasn't my point.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 02, 2022, 04:22:05 pm
This wasn't my point.

OK, then.  What was the point (I haven't had coffee yet here on the left coast)?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 04:31:25 pm
Post a link to your drippings on my original post -----  or stand down

lol
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 04:37:17 pm
Three killed in Russian strikes on evacuation bus

2h ago   |   10:02



Three people were killed and five others were wounded when Russian forces fired mortars that hit an evacuation bus in the southern Kherson region.

The news was reported by a Ukrainian military spokesperson this afternoon.

The incident took place on 1 August as the bus was heading from the village of Starosilya, which is under Russian control, to the Ukrainian-held city of Kryvyi Rih.

Natalia Humeniuk, a spokesperson for the southern command of Ukraine's military, said the vehicle came under fire near the village of Dovhove.

Russia denies deliberately targeting Ukrainian civilians, though its attacks have devastated towns and cities across the nation.

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-putin-looting-steel-bound-for-uk-major-deal-to-relieve-food-crisis-to-be-signed-russian-forces-increasing-missile-use-12541713?postid=4241729#liveblog-body
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 05:10:39 pm
@catfish1957

None are so blind as the selfish and ignorant fools that can't see the fiscal,human,and emotional advantages to the US and the whole freaking world the defeat of the Russian Army and the collapse of neo-Sovietism would bring to the entire world.

For the most part, it's a generational divide @sneakypete    Half the nation came of age during or after the fall of the Berlin Wall, Reagan's victory in the Cold War, and Glasnost/Perestoika.  For them, "Dr. Strangelove" is not a documentary.

Russia has morphed from a one dimensional totalitarian state to a multi-dimensional European nation state more in line with those prior to the establishment of the EU.  Russia's interests are Russia first ----- but that does not automaticlly translate into global tyranny  --- which, BTW, is now the charter of the WEF and Brussels and our actual best interest to stop.

Russia wants to be an economic player in Europe, and by extension, on the world stage.  Yet, no one asks why it's so important that we stop this by draining our treasury, interfering on behalf of a non-NATO country and fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 05:12:33 pm
lol

Where are your links?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 05:17:14 pm
Where are your links?

Links to what?  What in the heck do you want me to provide for you?  I'm open to your questions, which incidentally is a luxury that you deny others on a regular basis.  But I'm game.  Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  (Some Jewish philosopher said that once.)

So let's hear it.  What links do you want?  Please be specific.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 05:18:45 pm
Russia wants to be an economic player in Europe

Russia wants to bully Europe.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 02, 2022, 05:21:06 pm
Russia wants to bully Europe.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: berdie on August 02, 2022, 08:49:14 pm
Too bad, we don't have some form of covert intelligence action that we can arm the general population, and make them a citizen guerrilla army. Make the Russians fear every door they open.

That way we can bypass the Uke politcal system.  I'd be all for that!!!!!!



I'm not sure that the populace hasn't been armed. And I read (maybe here or not) that old ladies are taking poisoned food to the Russians. That being said, it may have stopped once it became common knowledge. It would probably be my method. I just adore mushrooms (ref: The Beguiled)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: berdie on August 02, 2022, 08:51:37 pm
Russia wants to bully Europe.


Russia wants Europe, China wants Asia and Iran will take the ME.

Nothing to worry about...just move on.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 02, 2022, 09:37:22 pm
Biden’s Ukraine Blame-Laying Effort Enters a New Phase

National Review by Jimmy Quinn 8/2/2022

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/)

Thomas Friedman reports, based on conversations with senior administration officials: “Privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.”

Perhaps those conversations are now taking place to a degree previously unknown, but those in Kyiv have understood for several weeks now that President Biden is preparing to blame them if the war effort collapses. In fact, he already started to do so in June, as I reported at the time:

    Senior Ukrainian officials believe that President Biden is ramping up an effort to fault Kyiv for failing to heed his pre-invasion warning about Russian war plans — and thus deflect from his administration’s own inability to deter the invasion, a former U.S. official who speaks regularly with top Ukrainian officials told National Review.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 09:44:03 pm
Russian Army Turns Ukraine’s Largest Nuclear Plant Into a Military Base

Land mines and missile launchers are deployed at Zaporizhzhia, as cameras and instruments go dark and workers are held for ransom

Drew Hinshaw and Joe Parkinson  |  July 5, 2022  |  11:41 am ET

The Russian army is transforming Europe’s largest nuclear power plant into a military base overlooking an active front, intensifying a monthslong safety crisis for the vast facility and its thousands of staff.

At the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant in southern Ukraine, more than 500 Russian soldiers who seized the facility in March recently have deployed heavy artillery batteries, and laid anti-personnel mines along the shores of the reservoir whose water cools its six reactors, according to workers, residents, Ukrainian officials, and diplomats. The Ukrainian army holds the towns dotted on the opposite shore, some 3 miles away, but sees no easy way to attack the plant, given the inherent danger of artillery battles around active nuclear reactors.

The new infusion of weaponry effectively shields the plant from a counterattack by Ukrainian forces, and amounts to something the carefully regulated atomic-energy industry has never seen before: The slow-motion transformation of a nuclear power station into a military garrison. In a lesser-scrutinized aspect of its war strategy, the Russian army is day-by-day positioning the weaponry around a nuclear plant that is among the world’s largest, using it to cement control of the front line where their advance through southern Ukraine ground to a halt.

Russian forces deployed a Smerch artillery vehicle last month in the shadow of the 5.7 gigawatt complex’s striped chimneys, adding to the grad rocket launchers, tanks and personnel carriers. The earth around the plant is carved with trenches, with military guard dogs stationed out of a makeshift kennel. Senior technicians from Rosatom, Russia’s state atomic energy corporation, have set up a base in a guarded bunker beneath the plant.

“They are keeping it like a base for their artillery," said a European official posted to the nearby city of Zaporizhzhia, which remains in Ukrainian control. “They understand that Ukraine will not answer their attacks from the plant."

Ukrainian defense officials said that even if their forces could mount a conventional military effort to recapture the plant, they are focused on pushing a counteroffensive to the northeastern and southern cities of Kharkiv and Kherson.

“It seems like this is one of the Russian tactics, to take critical infrastructure and use it as a shield," said former Ukrainian Defense Minister Andriy Zagorodnyuk. “We’re not going to storm the plant….The only way to do it would be to surround it, to take the surrounding areas, and ask them to leave."  .  .  .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-army-turns-ukraines-largest-nuclear-plant-into-a-military-base-11657035694
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 09:47:52 pm
Russia is firing artillery from a captured nuclear power plant, leaving Ukraine reluctant to shoot back

Marianne Guenot  |  Aug 1, 2022, 9:25 AM


Russian troops are firing artillery at Ukrainian targets from a nuclear power plant, breaking another norm of war, The New York Times reported.

The war's aggressor selected the Zaporizhzhia site because it made it difficult for Ukrainian troops to retaliate, Ukrainian officials told The Times.

Russian forces have been firing at Nikopol, a Ukrainian town across the river from the plant, since mid-July, The Times said.

The capture of the Ukrainian nuclear power plant in March caused international outrage, as the fighting led to a fire on the site that raised fears the integrity of the nuclear reactors could be threatened.

The invasion of Ukraine marks one of the first times nuclear infrastructure has been in the line of fire during heavy conflict.

Ukrainian troops have hesitated to retaliate for fear that their strikes may hit one of Zaporizhzhia's six reactors or its stored nuclear waste.

"How can we respond?" Col. Serhiy Shatalov asked The Times. "This is a nuclear site."  .  .  .

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-fires-artillery-from-nuclear-plant-ukraine-cant-shoot-back-2022-8
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 09:50:57 pm
Using Nuclear Reactors for Cover, Russians Lob Rockets at Ukrainians

Andrew Kramer  |  July 31, 2022 at 9:01 pm


NIKOPOL, Ukraine — Along most of the front line in Russia’s war in Ukraine, when one side lets loose with an artillery attack, the other shoots back.

But not in Nikopol, a city deep in southern farm country where the Ukrainian military faces a new and vexing obstacle as it prepares for a major counteroffensive: a nuclear power station that the Russian army has turned into a fortress.

Nikopol, controlled by the Ukrainians, lies on the west bank of the Dnieper River. On the opposite bank sits a gigantic nuclear power plant — Europe’s largest — that the Russian army captured in March. The Russians have been firing from the cover of the Zaporizhzhia power station since mid-July, Ukrainian military and civilian officials said, sending rockets over the river at Nikopol and other targets.

It is, in effect, a free shot. Ukraine cannot unleash volleys of shells in return using American-provided advanced rocket systems, which have silenced Russian guns elsewhere on the front line. Doing so would risk striking one of the six pressurized water reactors or highly radioactive waste in storage. And Russia knows it.

“They are hiding there so they cannot be hit,” said Nikopol Mayor Oleksandr Sayuk. “Why else would they be at the electrical station? To use such an object as a shield is very dangerous.”

Residents have been fleeing Nikopol because of the dangers of both shelling and of a potential radiation leak. And those who remain feel helpless, as if they are targets in a shooting gallery.

“We are like condemned prisoners who must just stand still and be shot at,” said Halyna Hrashchenkova, a retiree whose home was hit by Russian artillery. “They shoot at us, and there is nothing we can do.”  .  .  .

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/using-nuclear-reactors-for-cover-russians-lob-rockets-at-ukrainians/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 09:53:29 pm
(https://i.giphy.com/media/jfsaMQr3GNkKk/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 02, 2022, 09:59:07 pm
Using Nuclear Reactors for Cover, Russians Lob Rockets at Ukrainians


Bu-bu-but....I was told everybody does that, even the US.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 10:13:15 pm
Quote
Russia has the 11th largest GDP in the world, and is dropping like a rock in that perspective. There are a number of countries in the EU that have stronger economies.  Why won't these folks manage the Russian threat? 

@catfish1957

Don't know,don't care. What I care about is America,and the future of our lives without a Communist Russia starting guerilla wars all over in an attempt to take down the west,which requires us to send soldiers to help that 3rd world nation defeat the communists.

I am worried about the lives of American military members.

I am worried about the future security of not only America,but of the whole damn world.

You can crawl into your little isolationist hut and pretend to be superior,but all that proves is your ignorance.

What I find hilarious, is your (rightful) hatred of "W", and his and his dim complicit lackeys who thrust the concept of NWO and nation building on us, while wasting trillions of dollars from our treasury.  And still........

You continue to help perpetuate this concept.  Because.....   Guess who gets to rebuild Ukraine after this is over?

I wish the Ukranian people all the best, and hope they continue to beat the Russians back.  But....   Not on my dime.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 10:14:56 pm
Are you saying for the US military our commitment to fight for victory "depends" on politics @sneakypete   ----- and that *you* support this?

@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,compared to you and selfish,cowardly creatures like you,I happen to live in the real world.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 10:16:10 pm
Fixed for accuracy.

@Hoodat

 :amen:

Thanks for the corrections.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 10:19:50 pm
For the most part, it's a generational divide @sneakypete    Half the nation came of age during or after the fall of the Berlin Wall, Reagan's victory in the Cold War, and Glasnost/Perestoika.  For them, "Dr. Strangelove" is not a documentary.

Russia has morphed from a one dimensional totalitarian state to a multi-dimensional European nation state more in line with those prior to the establishment of the EU.  Russia's interests are Russia first ----- but that does not automaticlly translate into global tyranny  --- which, BTW, is now the charter of the WEF and Brussels and our actual best interest to stop.

Russia wants to be an economic player in Europe, and by extension, on the world stage.  Yet, no one asks why it's so important that we stop this by draining our treasury, interfering on behalf of a non-NATO country and fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian.

@Right_in_Virginia

Speaking of being blind because you are not willing to see!

What color is the sky on your home planet?

Do you NOT know ANYTHING about history OR human nature?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 10:21:05 pm
Russia wants to bully Europe.

@Hoodat

Correction.

Russia wants to bully the whole planet and turn it into a communist police state.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 02, 2022, 10:22:49 pm
Biden’s Ukraine Blame-Laying Effort Enters a New Phase

National Review by Jimmy Quinn 8/2/2022

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/)

Thomas Friedman reports, based on conversations with senior administration officials: “Privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.”

 

@Elderberry

BEST damn news I have heard in weeks. Maybe longer.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 10:35:51 pm
.  .  .   
Senior Ukrainian officials believe that President Biden is ramping up an effort to fault Kyiv for failing to heed his pre-invasion warning about Russian war plans — and thus deflect from his administration’s own inability to deter the invasion, a former U.S. official who speaks regularly with top Ukrainian officials told National Review.

They’re furious about this new rhetorical tack, according to the source, because they believe that the White House declined to take meaningful action to deter the Russian assault in late 2021 and earlier this year…

During remarks at a Democratic fundraiser Friday in Los Angeles, Biden reportedly said that Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky failed to listen to his warnings about the imminent Russian invasion. “Nothing like this has happened since World War II. I know a lot of people thought I was maybe exaggerating,” he said, according to an Associated Press report. “But I knew we had data to sustain” the prediction that Putin “was going to go in, off the border.” He added, “There was no doubt, and Zelensky didn’t want to hear it.”…

Joe Biden is a sick POS.  He is the one who has been trying to tie Zelenskiy's hand behind his back this entire time.  Biden trusts Zelenskiy when it comes to handing over a few billion dollars to pay hospital workers and government bureaucrats.  But when it comes to the think that Zelenskiy really requested - weapons, Biden suspects Zelenskiy may do something heinous with them, like using them against Russia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 02, 2022, 10:40:01 pm
Why Is the White House Quietly Griping about Zelensky Now?

JIM GERAGHTY  |  August 2, 2022 9:28 AM


Which Biden administration official is leaking to the New York Times’ Tom Friedman that the White House doesn’t trust Volodymyr Zelensky (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/01/opinion/nancy-pelosi-taiwan-china.html)?

The timing could not be worse. Dear reader: The Ukraine war is not over. And privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.

And there is funny business going on in Kyiv. On July 17, Zelensky fired his country’s prosecutor general and the leader of its domestic intelligence agency — the most significant shake-up in his government since the Russian invasion in February. It would be the equivalent of Biden firing Merrick Garland and Bill Burns on the same day. But I have still not seen any reporting that convincingly explains what that was all about. It is as if we don’t want to look too closely under the hood in Kyiv for fear of what corruption or antics we might see, when we have invested so much there. (More on the dangers of that another day.)

Your mileage may vary, but I see two possible motives here. Possibility one is that the Biden administration just wants the Ukraine-Russia war to end, and Zelensky isn’t playing ball, so the administration is getting ready to leave Zelensky hanging out to dry. Possibility two is that the administration foresees the Ukraine-Russia war going badly, and is preparing to use Zelensky as a scapegoat. They’re laying the groundwork to argue, “we did everything we could to help the Ukrainians defend themselves, but in the end, they were too incompetent, too corrupt, and too beset by infighting.”  .  .  .

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/why-is-the-white-house-quietly-griping-about-zelensky-now/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 11:51:00 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

Do you NOT know ANYTHING about history OR human nature?

I do @sneakypete  --- about both.  I also have the abilities to observe and think, and I can do both dispassionately.

Worldviews change with generations, Pete.  Few who came of age during and after the celebrated fall of communism in Europe view today's Russia as a global Soviet threat. 

Your worldview is understandable ---- you came of age during the height of the Soviet threat.  You fought the commies in Vietnam. Your worldview is now part of your DNA.

But, Germany moving past its subjugation wars and Japan past hers to become respected and influential global players prove times change, and so can nations.  FWIW,  I doubt any WWII vet saw this coming ---  and I suspect they weren't very happy about it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 11:52:37 pm
Bu-bu-but....I was told everybody does that, even the US.

By whom @Cyber Liberty ?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 02, 2022, 11:53:51 pm
Biden’s Ukraine Blame-Laying Effort Enters a New Phase

National Review by Jimmy Quinn 8/2/2022

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/ (https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/bidens-ukraine-blame-laying-effort-enters-a-new-phase/)

Thomas Friedman reports, based on conversations with senior administration officials: “Privately, U.S. officials are a lot more concerned about Ukraine’s leadership than they are letting on. There is deep mistrust between the White House and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky — considerably more than has been reported.”

Perhaps those conversations are now taking place to a degree previously unknown, but those in Kyiv have understood for several weeks now that President Biden is preparing to blame them if the war effort collapses. In fact, he already started to do so in June, as I reported at the time:

    Senior Ukrainian officials believe that President Biden is ramping up an effort to fault Kyiv for failing to heed his pre-invasion warning about Russian war plans — and thus deflect from his administration’s own inability to deter the invasion, a former U.S. official who speaks regularly with top Ukrainian officials told National Review.

More at link.
Say what? Do they mean flacid warnings about a 'minor incursion'?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 02, 2022, 11:54:38 pm
I do @sneakypete  --- about both.  I also have the abilities to observe and think, and I can do both dispassionately.

Worldviews change with generations, Pete.  Few who came of age during and after the celebrated fall of communism in Europe view today's Russia as a global Soviet threat. 

Your worldview is understandable ---- you came of age during the height of the Soviet threat.  You fought the commies in Vietnam. Your worldview is now part of your DNA.

But, Germany moving past its subjugation wars and Japan past hers to become respected and influential global players prove times change, and so can nations.  FWIW,  I doubt any WWII vet saw this coming ---  and I suspect they weren't very happy about it.
Worldviews may change, but human nature does not, else the Bible would be irrelevant in a generation.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 02, 2022, 11:55:34 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

Yeah,compared to you and selfish,cowardly creatures like you,I happen to live in the real world.

Pull up @sneakypete   Pull up.   :laugh:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 03, 2022, 12:17:11 am
I do @sneakypete  --- about both.  I also have the abilities to observe and think, and I can do both dispassionately.

Worldviews change with generations, Pete.  Few who came of age during and after the celebrated fall of communism in Europe view today's Russia as a global Soviet threat. 

Your worldview is understandable ---- you came of age during the height of the Soviet threat.  You fought the commies in Vietnam. Your worldview is now part of your DNA.

But, Germany moving past its subjugation wars and Japan past hers to become respected and influential global players prove times change, and so can nations.  FWIW,  I doubt any WWII vet saw this coming ---  and I suspect they weren't very happy about it.

@Right_in_Virginia

Human nature doesn't change. If someone is "wired at birth" to be greedy and evil,greedy and evil he or she will be for their entire lives.

If you would be honest with yourself,you are terrified of going to war with Russia,and you just can't admit it. Most likely,not even to yourself.

There are "crossroads" in history that sometimes appear,and you are worse than a damn fool if you don't take advantage of them when they appear.

We are now,for the first time since the invention of sailing ships,in a position to make the entire freaking world a better and a safer place.

This is TRULY a unique situation because if the world can eliminate Russia as a potential threat to world peace,that only leaves China,and China WILL begin to fall apart within months if Putin and his pals in the politburo are given the "hard boot" and replaced with people living in the 21st Century.

Hell,I am even beginning to suspect that the whole Cold War thing was a creation of the professional political class because it gave them SOOOO much additional power,and that power led to MUCH easier access to bribe money,starting with the unions,and going all the way up to the current occupant of the WH.

You seem to believe it is better to hide under your bed and pretend it has nothing to so with us. Not even in the "Global World" of today.

None are so blind........

And people like you hide under your beds and hope it doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 03, 2022, 12:21:02 am
Pull up @sneakypete   Pull up.   :laugh:

@Right_in_Virginia

You are right. Other than the future of both America and the rest of the world,there is nothing to get excited about when an opportunity to get a dangerous enemy to all of mankind removed from office,and POSSIBLY replaced with someone who WASN'T a career Soviet spy.

Hell,if you can't trust a former career Colonel who spend his entire life up to a few years ago trying to figure out how to conquer all free nations and turn them into police states,who CAN you trust?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on August 03, 2022, 12:23:36 am
Worldviews may change, but human nature does not, else the Bible would be irrelevant n a generation.

Beautiful!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 03, 2022, 12:44:26 am
@Right_in_Virginia

Human nature doesn't change.

I think you may be confusing human nature with what someone is taught @sneakypete  You and your generation were taught ---- with every news report, every spy novel, every movie, every TV show ---- about the evils of the Soviets.  Back between the 50s and 70s this was likely in our best geopolitical interest.

Then came Ronald Reagan and the slaying of the Soviet Union and comminism in Europe ---- without firing a single shot  ----  ushering in one of the most consequential global paradigm shifts of the 20th Century.   We, as a nation, are still struggling to come to terms with it.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 03, 2022, 12:51:21 am
@Right_in_Virginia

Hell,if you can't trust a former career Colonel who spend his entire life up to a few years ago trying to figure out how to conquer all free nations and turn them into police states,who CAN you trust?

To this end @sneakypete your time just might be better spent focusng on Klaus Schwab and Joe Biden.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on August 03, 2022, 01:13:20 am
The Ukrainians are laying down their lives to defend their country.

Have the Poles been allowed to give their Russian-made fighters to Ukraine, yet?

If Ukraine fails to expel Russia from its pre-2014 borders, it's because the West made them fight with one hand behind their backs and valued cheap Russian energy more than Ukrainian victory.

Western European nations are run by weak, stupid, socialists, ignorant of history's lessons.

Eastern Europeans nations' interests are more closely aligned with America's than those of other NATO members, like Germany, France, Italy, Greece, and Turkey.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on August 03, 2022, 01:17:56 am
After First Ukrainian Grain Ship Leaves Port, Erdogan and Putin to Meet Over Black Sea Initiative

 The first ship carrying Ukrainian grain to be able to leave the country since Russia’s invasion began safely departed this week, under a Turkish- and U.N.-brokered agreement designed to resolve a problem blamed for contributing to a global food crisis.

Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan are scheduled to meet in Sochi on Friday to “synchronize” the operation, Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov confirmed.

The state-owned TASS news service quoted Peskov as saying the meeting would be a “good opportunity to compare notes on the effectiveness of the mechanism for the export of grain from Ukrainian ports – to take a look at how effectively it works,” as well as “to exchange opinions on world affairs.”

News of the planned meeting comes a day after the first ship departed Odesa, Ukraine’s largest port, carrying 26,527 tons of corn destined for Tripoli, Lebanon.

The vessel, the MV Razoni, was set to arrive Wednesday off Turkey’s coast, where it will be inspected by Russian, Turkish, Ukrainian and U.N. officials, according to Turkey’s defense ministry.

Under the recently-signed agreement, Russia wants ships inspected to ensure they are not used – especially when returning empty to Ukraine – to transport weapons that could be deployed in Ukraine’s defense against the Russian military offensive...........

https://www.cnsnews.com/index.php/article/international/james-carstensen/after-first-ukrainian-grain-ship-leaves-port-erdogan-and
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 03, 2022, 01:31:44 am
I think you may be confusing human nature with what someone is taught @sneakypete  You and your generation were taught ---- with every news report, every spy novel, every movie, every TV show ---- about the evils of the Soviets.  Back between the 50s and 70s this was likely in our best geopolitical interest.

Then came Ronald Reagan and the slaying of the Soviet Union and comminism in Europe ---- without firing a single shot  ----  ushering in one of the most consequential global paradigm shifts of the 20th Century.   We, as a nation, are still struggling to come to terms with it.

@Right_in_Virginia

Despite all the evidence to the contrary,you really do believe all that crap,don't you?

I think it is best if you and I quit posting to each other on this subject.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 03, 2022, 01:39:05 am
I think you may be confusing human nature with what someone is taught @sneakypete  You and your generation were taught ---- with every news report, every spy novel, every movie, every TV show ---- about the evils of the Soviets.  Back between the 50s and 70s this was likely in our best geopolitical interest.

Then came Ronald Reagan and the slaying of the Soviet Union and comminism in Europe ---- without firing a single shot  ----  ushering in one of the most consequential global paradigm shifts of the 20th Century.   We, as a nation, are still struggling to come to terms with it.
Wait, whoa. You're saying the people who gunned down the Romanovs, and proceeded to slaughter more of their Countrymen than Hitler racked up are just nice folks who are misunderstood because they spent my formative years and beyond pointing nuclear weapons at us?
Communism has never flourished so well as it has since it was pronounced dead.
Just look at the crap coming out of Washington, D.C. and try flying that past America of circa 1965. McCarthy was right, and every facet of American culture has been subtly infused with Communist (Marxist) rhetoric to the point that those doing it are comfortable with pulling aside the wrapper and exposing the source of their philosophies.

Go back and read the 45 Communist Goals (https://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/watchwomanonthewall/2011/04/the-45-communist-goals-as-read-into-the-congressional-record-1963.html) from 1963 and tell me what's left to accomplish.

With a former KGB Colonel at the helm, do you think anything has changed much besides the wrapper? Even China and the CCP maintain a facade of Capitalistic behaviour to loot the intellectual properties of other nations, build their war chest and manufacturing base, and diminish the economic and industrial bases of their rivals. In the Third World, they just blatantly bribe those in power, and treat the population like peasants, right down to child labor.

Take the rose colored glasses off.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 03, 2022, 01:40:43 am
To this end @sneakypete your time just might be better spent focusng on Klaus Schwab and Joe Biden.

@Right_in_Virginia

Right. Remind me now many nuclear weapons they possess,and delivery vehicles to fire them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 03, 2022, 04:27:59 am
By whom @Cyber Liberty ?

I can't recall exactly.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 03, 2022, 11:44:14 am
Wait, whoa. You're saying the people who gunned down the Romanovs, and proceeded to slaughter more of their Countrymen than Hitler racked up are just nice folks who are misunderstood because they spent my formative years and beyond pointing nuclear weapons at us?

Of course not @Smokin Joe  ..... and you know it.   I never said that, not even by innuendo.

Quote
Communism has never flourished so well as it has since it was pronounced dead.

In Europe? (Don't tell Hungary or Poland)

Quote
Just look at the crap coming out of Washington, D.C. and try flying that past America of circa 1965. McCarthy was right, and every facet of American culture has been subtly infused with Communist (Marxist) rhetoric to the point that those doing it are comfortable with pulling aside the wrapper and exposing the source of their philosophies.

Are you finally admitting it's time for the US to take its focus off Europe and put it fully where it belongs:  On the US?   Or are you still fully behind Biden leading this nation into the dustbin of history ----- you know because of The Ukraine or Russia or wheat or something?  Are you anxiously awaiting the tossing of Joe's next shiny object, or can this one hold you for a while?

Quote
Take the rose colored glasses off.

Physician, heal thyself ---- I'm not the one skipping behind Joe Biden.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 03, 2022, 12:19:27 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

Skipping behind Joe Biden?

You mean the guy who has been attacking the industry that I work in since day one in office?

Are you just being a shit or are you out of your bleep mind?

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Mod2 on August 03, 2022, 12:26:01 pm
Tone it down. The topic is not other TBR members.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 03, 2022, 02:28:16 pm
Of course not @Smokin Joe  ..... and you know it.   I never said that, not even by innuendo.

In Europe? (Don't tell Hungary or Poland)

Are you finally admitting it's time for the US to take its focus off Europe and put it fully where it belongs:  On the US?  Or are you still fully behind Biden leading this nation into the dustbin of history ----- you know because of The Ukraine or Russia or wheat or something?  Are you anxiously awaiting the tossing of Joe's next shiny object, or can this one hold you for a while?

Physician, heal thyself ---- I'm not the one skipping behind Joe Biden.

@Right_in_Virginia

What's it like living in a vacuum?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 03, 2022, 02:46:13 pm
By whom @Cyber Liberty ?

https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,468874.msg2684608.html#msg2684608
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 03, 2022, 02:47:42 pm
I think you may be confusing human nature with what someone is taught @sneakypete  You and your generation were taught ---- with every news report, every spy novel, every movie, every TV show ---- about the evils of the Soviets.  Back between the 50s and 70s this was likely in our best geopolitical interest.

This has zero relevance to what is going on in Ukraine right now.  But then you knew that already.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 03, 2022, 03:15:50 pm
@Right_in_Virginia

What's it like living in a vacuum?

I think it's best if you honor your own advice @sneakypete    Thanks.


@Right_in_Virginia

I think it is best if you and I quit posting to each other on this subject.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on August 03, 2022, 03:45:22 pm
Communism is not dead.  In the Industrial Age it disguised itself as a workers rights movement.

In the post-Industrial Age, Communism disguises itself as Environment Activism.

It's difficult to advance a political ideaology if they transparently let it be know that there aim was to enslave the governed.  To move it forward, they need to advance as a greater benevolent, international movement - such as Global Climate Change - to benefit the greater good.  With each step or advance, they further weaken their political enemies and eliminate poltical competitors on their rise to establish an international dictatorship.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 03, 2022, 03:47:53 pm
Bullies and tyrants go by many different names.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 03, 2022, 04:09:43 pm
I hope I don't have to lock this thread.....

j/s
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 03, 2022, 04:27:28 pm
@Hoodat  @Right_in_Virginia

Not only that,but the Soviets WERE evil.

So are the Neo-Soviets of today.

Exactly, @sneakypete

I don't oppose Russia because they were in the past evil Soviet communists.  I oppose Russia because they are evil now today.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 03, 2022, 09:46:37 pm
Exactly, @sneakypete

I don't oppose Russia because they were in the past evil Soviet communists.  I oppose Russia because they are evil now today.

@Hoodat

I have been to Russia on vacation a couple of times,and it SEEMS to me that the typical Russian was no fan of Communism,but it's not like they had a choice,so they played along.

As one typical sarcastic joke went,"We pretend to work,and they pretend to pay us."

It seems like nobody was fooled,but the typical Russian subject had no choice but to play along because they owned nothing. The state owned where they lived,as well as where they worked,and if they pissed some bureaucrat or cop off,they could instantly find themselves unemployed and homeless,and both were illegal. Meaning it was off to a labor camp for the whole family.

BTW,I only encountered hostility ONCE in two trips of over a month,and that was from a old WW-2 vet dripping with medals on his suit jacket in the Moscow Subway.

What was remarkable to me was it was so obvious that everybody else in the subway car seemed to be embarrassed at his outburst. He SEEMED to be trying to get the other passengers to join him,and all they would do would be to look off or down at the floor. I could actually see a couple of women blushing from embarrassment.

Truth to tell,if they guy hadn't been an old and feeble "Great Patriotic War Hero",I think at a minimum some would have told him to shut up.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 03, 2022, 11:06:42 pm
Russian ceasefire and troop pullout must precede any talks, says Ukraine

https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1640677/russian-ceasefire-and-troop-pullout-must-precede-any-talks-says-ukraine (https://newsinfo.inquirer.net/1640677/russian-ceasefire-and-troop-pullout-must-precede-any-talks-says-ukraine)

Ukraine on Wednesday dismissed comments by former German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder that Russia wanted a “negotiated solution” to the war and said any dialogue would be contingent on a Russian ceasefire and withdrawal of its troops.

Schroeder, a friend of Russian President Vladimir Putin and increasingly derided in Germany for his pro-Russia stance, said last month’s agreement on grain shipments from Ukraine, aimed at easing a global food crisis, might offer a way forward.

The first grain ship since the war began more than five months ago passed through the Bosphorus Strait on Wednesday en route to Lebanon.

“The good news is that the Kremlin wants a negotiated solution,” Schroeder told Stern weekly and broadcasters RTL/ntv, adding he had met Putin in Moscow last week. “A first success is the grain deal, perhaps that can be slowly expanded to a ceasefire.”

In response, Ukrainian presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak described Schroeder as a “voice of the Russian royal court” and made clear that the grain agreement would not lead to broader negotiations.

“If Moscow wants dialogue, the ball is in its court. First — a cease-fire and withdrawal of troops, then — constructive (dialogue),” Podolyak wrote on Twitter.

In a video address on Wednesday night, Ukrainian President Volodymr Zelenskiy also responded bitterly to the notion of talks with Russia.

“It is simply disgusting when former leaders of major states with European values work for Russia, which is at war against these values,” Zelenskiy said.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 04, 2022, 04:58:01 pm
Russian soldiers accuse superiors of jailing them for refusing to fight

Rare public comments expose tensions inside the ranks of Russia’s army over the invasion of Ukraine

Pjotr Sauer  |  2 Aug 2022  |  10.00 EDT

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/5d9c2b7838009465db31b4cd694e3611d32942e0/115_0_4514_2709/master/4514.jpg?width=620&quality=85&fit=max&s=ed9a80e185b9b62cf6adcc9295afec19)
The Russian army and the People's Militia of the Luhansk People's Republic [who wear Nazi SS Totenkopf insignia on their uniforms] on a mission in Ukraine. Photograph: AP

A group of Russian soldiers have accused their commanders of jailing them in eastern Ukraine for refusing to take part in the war, in a rare public exposure of tensions inside the ranks of Russia’s army over the invasion.

Maxim Grebenyuk, a lawyer who runs the Moscow-based advocacy organisation Military Ombudsman, said at least four Russian soldiers had filed written complaints with the investigative committee, demanding punishment for the superiors who oversaw their detainment.

“We already have a list of 70 Russian soldiers who were held as prisoners. In total, about 140 soldiers were held,” added Grebenyuk, who represented the soldiers.

In one written testimony sent to Russian prosecutors on 1 August and reviewed by the Guardian, a soldier described how, after refusing to return to the battlefield, he was jailed for more than a week in different cells in the Russian-controlled territory of Luhansk.

“As a result of what I believe were tactical and strategic mistakes made by my commanders … and their total disregard for human life … I made the decision not to continue in the military operation,” said Vladimir, a soldier whose name has been changed at his request.

Vladimir said he was detained on 19 July and placed in a room with window bars where he was held without food with 25 other soldiers from his unit who also refused to fight.  .  .  .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/02/russian-soldiers-accuse-superiors-of-jailing-them-for-refusing-to-fight
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 04, 2022, 04:59:33 pm
Russian soldiers accuse superiors of jailing them for refusing to fight

Rare public comments expose tensions inside the ranks of Russia’s army over the invasion of Ukraine

Pjotr Sauer  |  2 Aug 2022  |  10.00 EDT

(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/5d9c2b7838009465db31b4cd694e3611d32942e0/115_0_4514_2709/master/4514.jpg?width=620&quality=85&fit=max&s=ed9a80e185b9b62cf6adcc9295afec19)
The Russian army and the People's Militia of the Luhansk People's Republic [who wear Nazi SS Totenkopf insignia on their uniforms] on a mission in Ukraine. Photograph: AP

A group of Russian soldiers have accused their commanders of jailing them in eastern Ukraine for refusing to take part in the war, in a rare public exposure of tensions inside the ranks of Russia’s army over the invasion.

Maxim Grebenyuk, a lawyer who runs the Moscow-based advocacy organisation Military Ombudsman, said at least four Russian soldiers had filed written complaints with the investigative committee, demanding punishment for the superiors who oversaw their detainment.

“We already have a list of 70 Russian soldiers who were held as prisoners. In total, about 140 soldiers were held,” added Grebenyuk, who represented the soldiers.

In one written testimony sent to Russian prosecutors on 1 August and reviewed by the Guardian, a soldier described how, after refusing to return to the battlefield, he was jailed for more than a week in different cells in the Russian-controlled territory of Luhansk.

“As a result of what I believe were tactical and strategic mistakes made by my commanders … and their total disregard for human life … I made the decision not to continue in the military operation,” said Vladimir, a soldier whose name has been changed at his request.

Vladimir said he was detained on 19 July and placed in a room with window bars where he was held without food with 25 other soldiers from his unit who also refused to fight.  .  .  .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/02/russian-soldiers-accuse-superiors-of-jailing-them-for-refusing-to-fight


Say it ain't so!!  I thought that only the Ukrainians were neo-nazis.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 04, 2022, 05:05:09 pm
So the soldiers are being punished for insubordination?  Aren't they supposed to be for disobeying orders to deploy?

I don't understand why this is even a story...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 04, 2022, 05:10:19 pm

Say it ain't so!!  I thought that only the Ukrainians were neo-nazis.

Correction, it was the DPR, not the LPR.  My bad.  Here is Donetsk Peoples Republic leader Denis Pushilin giving out medals for killing Ukrainian solders.

(https://i.insider.com/624d24dcbb219a00181be175?width=700&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 04, 2022, 05:12:58 pm
So the soldiers are being punished for insubordination?  Aren't they supposed to be for disobeying orders to deploy?

I don't understand why this is even a story...

They are being denied due process.  Also, under Russian law, conscripts cannot be placed in combat roles.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 04, 2022, 05:19:35 pm
They are being denied due process.  Also, under Russian law, conscripts cannot be placed in combat roles.

Ah!  Gotcha.  Russia shoots deserters on the spot, so it surprises me there's due process at all.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 04, 2022, 05:26:12 pm
Deserting is a tad different from refusing an order.  These soldiers did not desert.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 04, 2022, 05:33:19 pm
Deserting is a tad different from refusing an order.  These soldiers did not desert.

That's true, I was making a hypothetical...
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 04, 2022, 05:42:57 pm
That's true, I was making a hypothetical...

Yes, I understand what you meant. 

If the Russian regime doesn't value the lives of their own soldiers, how much less do they value the lives of the Ukrainian people.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 04, 2022, 05:51:55 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZTZYvOXgAApIHi?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 05, 2022, 01:17:57 pm
Russia plans to plant 'evidence' blaming the West for Ukrainian prison camp rocket blast, US officials fear

By MAIL FOREIGN SERVICE
4 August 2022

Russia is working to fake evidence to claim Western rockets destroyed a jail housing Ukrainian prisoners of war, Washington warned yesterday.

US intelligence officials say Russia wants it to appear that Ukrainian forces were responsible for the July 29 attack on Olenivka prison that left 53 dead.

Russia has said Ukraine's military used US rocket launchers to strike the prison in the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).

The Ukrainian defence ministry claimed to have evidence the DPR colluded with the Russian FSB and Moscow's mercenary group, Wagner, to mine the barrack before 'using a flammable substance, which led to the rapid spread of fire in the room'.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11082887/Russia-plant-evidence-blaming-West-Ukrainian-prison-camp-rocket-blast-officials-fear.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 05, 2022, 01:28:59 pm
Desperate Putin 'is considering turning to Kim Jong Un for help in Ukraine and offering energy and grain in return for 100,000 soldiers', Russian reports claim

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS JEWERS FOR MAILONLINE
5 August 2022

A desperate Vladimir Putin is considering turning to North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un for help in his invasion of Ukraine, and is willing to offer energy and grain in return for 100,000 soldiers, according to reports in Russia.

North Korea has made it clear through 'diplomatic channels' that as well as providing builders to repair war damage, it is ready to supply a vast fighting force in an attempt to tip the balance in Moscow's favour, reported Regnum news agency.

They would be deployed to the forces of the separatist pro-Putin Donetsk People's Republic [DPR] and Luhansk People's Republic [LPR], both of which Kim has recently recognised as independent countries.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11083715/Desperate-Putin-considering-turning-Kim-Jong-help-Ukraine.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 05, 2022, 01:44:53 pm
Soon to be 100,000 North Korean defectors.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 05, 2022, 01:48:30 pm
Soon to be 100,000 North Korean defectors.

I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on August 06, 2022, 02:29:45 pm
CBS News
@CBSNews
The new CBS Reports documentary, "Arming Ukraine," explores why much of the billions of dollars of military aid that the U.S. is sending to Ukraine doesn't make it to the front lines: "Like 30% of it reaches its final destination." Stream now: https://cbsn.ws/3oV6hz5
7:45 PM · Aug 5, 2022·

Mike Kilo
@Mike___Kilo
Replying to @CBSNews
You’re suddenly asking the same questions that just weeks ago you claimed were only being asked by treasonous pro-Putin sympathizers. What changed? Have you switched sides?
12:35 AM · Aug 6, 2022

Jack Posobiec 🇺🇸
@JackPosobiec
Note the narrative shift. They’re setting up the path to cut Zelensky loose
11:12 AM · Aug 6, 2022
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 06, 2022, 03:09:11 pm
CBS News
@CBSNews
The new CBS Reports documentary, "Arming Ukraine," explores why much of the billions of dollars of military aid that the U.S. is sending to Ukraine doesn't make it to the front lines: "Like 30% of it reaches its final destination." Stream now: https://cbsn.ws/3oV6hz5
7:45 PM · Aug 5, 2022·

Mike Kilo
@Mike___Kilo
Replying to @CBSNews
You’re suddenly asking the same questions that just weeks ago you claimed were only being asked by treasonous pro-Putin sympathizers. What changed? Have you switched sides?
12:35 AM · Aug 6, 2022

@mountaineer

You know this,I know this,Ukraine knows this,Congress knows this,the  Department of Justice knows this,SO WHY THE HELL HAVE NO ARRESTS BEEN MADE?

We all know the answer,even the DoJ. Congresscritters and US Senators,PRIMARILY Dims,but with a rich mixture of their alleged Republican co-conspirators are the ones doing this,and they are "too big to bust".

Things like this are THE prime reason why TRUMP needs to be our next President. No,he can NOT do this on his own,but he can with just a handful of support from congress and the US Senate,and the mostly full support of the voters.

This group will NOT the union voters getting paid big bucks to build this stuff that is either sold in the black market or get dumped at sea,but these people are a minority of the voting population.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 06, 2022, 03:11:41 pm
Yes, I understand what you meant. 

If the Russian regime doesn't value the lives of their own soldiers, how much less do they value the lives of the Ukrainian people.

@Hoodat


The Russian regime is actually the same old Communist dictators that were in charge before Yeltsin,and brought back into power under King Putin. They don't give a damn about anyone but themselves and their families,never mind caring about mere soldier-pawns.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 06, 2022, 04:32:03 pm
Quote
Volodymyr Zelensky Asks Xi Jinping for Talks, Invites China to Rebuild Ukraine
Breitbart, Aug 5, 2022

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky told the South China Morning Post on Thursday that he would like to discuss his country’s war against Russia with the leader of Russia’s closest ally, Xi Jinping, “directly,” and invited China to help rebuild Ukraine once the war is over.

Zelensky’s discussion with the Morning Post, a Hong Kong newspaper, was the first with an Asian news outlet since Russia escalated its eight-year-old war against Ukraine into a full-scale invasion in February. Zelensky used the opportunity to request a personal discussion with Xi, a genocidal communist dictator who is largely bankrolling the invasion of Ukraine through large purchases of cheap Russian oil and gas.

Ukraine is a member of China’s Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), a global program to trap poor countries in predatory loans to China that they cannot afford. The loans are nominally meant to pay China for massive infrastructure projects. China was also Ukraine’s top trading partner prior to the war. Last year, Zelensky said he hoped that Ukraine would become a “bridge to Europe” for Chinese influence in his last conversation with Xi.

[...]

Zelensky also expressed hope that China would play a role in the reconstruction of Ukraine once the war ended, inducing “China, Chinese businesses” to enter the Ukrainian market.

“I really would like the whole world to [unite] over this process. It’s very hard for us to overcome this,” the president was quoted as saying.


https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/08/05/volodymyr-zelensky-asks-xi-jinping-for-talks-invites-china-to-rebuild-ukraine/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 06, 2022, 04:43:07 pm
"The new CBS Reports documentary, "Arming Ukraine," explores why much of the billions of dollars of military aid that the U.S. is sending to Ukraine doesn't make it to the front lines: "Like 30% of it reaches its final destination." Stream now: https://cbsn.ws/3oV6hz5" 

(Video)

https://mobile.twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1555701550319898625



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 06, 2022, 04:44:13 pm
"The new CBS Reports documentary, "Arming Ukraine," explores why much of the billions of dollars of military aid that the U.S. is sending to Ukraine doesn't make it to the front lines: "Like 30% of it reaches its final destination." Stream now: https://cbsn.ws/3oV6hz5"  (Video)


Hell....  the Big Guy was only getting 10%   :cool:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 06, 2022, 04:46:38 pm
Hell....  the Big Guy was only getting 10%   :cool:

Between Afghanistan and The Ukraine we're arming thw world ---- against us.   **nononono*
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 06, 2022, 06:09:22 pm
"The new CBS Reports documentary, "Arming Ukraine," explores why much of the billions of dollars of military aid that the U.S. is sending to Ukraine doesn't make it to the front lines

Ukraine is the victim of US corruption.  $40 billion in spending, yet they can't deliver actual weapons to the people who need them.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 06, 2022, 06:15:38 pm
Footage appears to show fresh atrocity against Ukrainian PoW

Russians accused of barbaric behaviour apparently seen in videos and photos from captured city of Popasna

Luke Harding  |  6 Aug 2022  |  08.59 EDT

Horrific video and photos have emerged that appear to show the head of a Ukrainian prisoner of war stuck on a pole outside a house in the eastern Ukrainian city of Popasna, which was captured by Russian forces in May and is close to the current frontline in the Donbas.

The Ukrainian governor of Luhansk province, Serhiy Haidai, posted the gruesome photo on his Telegram channel. It has since been widely shared on social media. Ukrainians have accused Russian troops of barbaric medieval behaviour and likened the image to Lord of the Rings.

“They really are orcs. Twenty-first century, occupied Popasna, human skull on the fence,” Haidai wrote. “There is nothing human about the Russians. We are at war with non-humans.”  .  .  .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/aug/06/footage-appears-show-head-ukrainian-pow-stuck-pole
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on August 06, 2022, 06:37:28 pm
Ukraine is the victim of US corruption.  $40 billion in spending, yet they can't deliver actual weapons to the people who need them.

I hate war profiteers as much as I hate invaders of sovereign nations.

The war profiteers and lack of prosecution of them doesn't change the fact that supporting Ukraine is a just cause. I don't care if Zelenskyy is a left wing jerk, or if his govt has corrupt people in it, the Ukrainian people have clearly shown that they are willing to fight to the death to save their country. I support them in this cause. They are not asking for our troops to save them. They only want the weapons to defeat the Orcs.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 06, 2022, 06:51:36 pm
Ukraine is the victim of US corruption. 

 :laughingdog:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 06, 2022, 07:08:32 pm
:laughingdog:

I take it that you didn't actually watch the video you posted.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 06, 2022, 07:20:47 pm
From the video:


Donatella Rovera - Senior Crisis Adviser, Amnesty International

"What is more worrying is that at least some of the countries that are sending weapons do not seem to think that it is their responsibility to put in place a very robust oversight mechanism to ensure they know how they are being used today, but also how they might and will be used tomorrow."




In other words, the US is dropping off weapons with no intent of getting them to the front line.  Like I said, that is US corruption.  $8.7 billion being paid directly to the State Department, and they can't hire the first person to help oversee aid that is being sent in the name of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 06, 2022, 08:59:11 pm
‘Putin’s Chef’ Is Personally Touring Russian Prisons for Wagner Recruits to Fight in Ukraine, Reports Say

Daily Beast by Allison Quinn 8/6/2022

https://www.thedailybeast.com/putins-chef-yevgeny-prigozhin-is-touring-prisons-for-wagner-recruits-to-fight-in-ukraine-reports-say (https://www.thedailybeast.com/putins-chef-yevgeny-prigozhin-is-touring-prisons-for-wagner-recruits-to-fight-in-ukraine-reports-say)

“In general, he gave the impression of a mania,” one unnamed prisoner was quoted telling Mediazona.

A sanctioned Russian businessman and close Putin ally linked to the notorious Wagner Group has reportedly been personally touring Russian prisons and recruiting inmates to join the fight in Ukraine.

That’s according to new reporting out Saturday by the independent outlet Mediazona, which interviewed two inmates held in different facilities in different regions of Russia. Numerous reports have emerged in recent weeks about Wagner’s alleged new recruiting drive among inmates, with the private Russian military force ostensibly trying to shore up Russian forces that have been depleted by heavy losses in the nearly six month war.

But this appears to be the first time that Yevgeny Prigozhin, commonly known as “Putin’s chef,” personally appealed to inmates.

“They are primarily interested in murderers and robbers, they treat the drug addicts warily, the same with the rapists. It’s better, he said, for it to not be common killers, but straight up calculating ones–you will like it with us, he said. In general, he gave the impression of a mania,” one unnamed inmate was quoted telling Mediazona.

The inmate went on to note there seemed to be no coercion to join, though “very many” did sign up, he said, estimating that at least 200 inmates eagerly accepted the offer.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 06, 2022, 09:50:03 pm
A sanctioned Russian businessman and close Putin ally linked to the notorious Wagner Group

Putin allied with nazis?  Say it ain't so.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 06, 2022, 10:42:19 pm
Report: Biden Admin Poised to Give Ukraine $1 Billion Weapons Package

JORDAN DIXON-HAMILTON  |  5 Aug 2022


President Joe Biden’s administration is prepared to send Ukraine a $1 billion weapons package as early as Monday, according to a Reuters report.

The $1 billion weapons package would be one of the largest aid packages the United States has sent Ukraine since Russia invaded the country back in February.

The $1 billion weapons package will include “munitions for long-range weapons and armored medical transport vehicles,” according to Reuters sources, who spoke with the outlet on condition of anonymity.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1555627753419980806

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/05/report-biden-admin-poised-to-give-ukraine-1-billion-weapons-package/



This nickel and dime bullshit has got to stop.  Biden is intentionally holding back weapons, trying to drag this war out as long as possible.  M-113s?  Seriously?  This is your huge $1 billion weapons package?  Meanwhile, $40 billion continues to line someone's pockets at DoD, Department of State, HHS, etc., while Ukrainian soldiers at the front line go without.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on August 06, 2022, 10:46:32 pm
Report: Biden Admin Poised to Give Ukraine $1 Billion Weapons Package

JORDAN DIXON-HAMILTON  |  5 Aug 2022


President Joe Biden’s administration is prepared to send Ukraine a $1 billion weapons package as early as Monday, according to a Reuters report.

The $1 billion weapons package would be one of the largest aid packages the United States has sent Ukraine since Russia invaded the country back in February.

The $1 billion weapons package will include “munitions for long-range weapons and armored medical transport vehicles,” according to Reuters sources, who spoke with the outlet on condition of anonymity.

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1555627753419980806

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/08/05/report-biden-admin-poised-to-give-ukraine-1-billion-weapons-package/



This nickel and dime bullshit has got to stop.  Biden is intentionally holding back weapons, trying to drag this war out as long as possible.  M-113s?  Seriously?  This is your huge $1 billion weapons package?  Meanwhile, $40 billion continues to line someone's pockets at DoD, Department of State, HHS, etc., while Ukrainian soldiers at the front line go without.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!  9999hair out0000
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 07, 2022, 12:26:07 am
Putin allied with nazis?  Say it ain't so.

@Hoodat

Just history repeating itself.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 07, 2022, 01:24:52 am
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!!!  9999hair out0000

Indeed!  We need to save some for the Taiwan War Pelosi just created in time for the mid-terms.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 07, 2022, 01:31:55 am
Indeed!  We need to save some for the Taiwan War Pelosi just created in time for the mid-terms.

If with $40 billion we can't deliver weapons to the front line in Ukraine, what makes you think we can help Taiwan?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 07, 2022, 01:51:11 am
If with $40 billion we can't deliver weapons to the front line in Ukraine, what makes you think we can help Taiwan?

@Hoodat

We are NOT going to help  Taiwan.

We can't afford to piss off China because they can cut off our supply of GM automatic transmissions,Smithfield sandwich meats,virtually EVERYTHING in Wal-Mart,etc,etc,etc.

Hell,cheap Chinese crap is what is keeping America moving these days.

The ONLY thing they don't provide us with is self-respect.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 07, 2022, 01:57:50 am
The ONLY thing they don't provide us with is self-respect.

So true.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 07, 2022, 02:10:27 am
@Hoodat

We are NOT going to help  Taiwan.

We can't afford to piss off China because they can cut off our supply of GM automatic transmissions,Smithfield sandwich meats,virtually EVERYTHING in Wal-Mart,etc,etc,etc.

Hell,cheap Chinese crap is what is keeping America moving these days.

The ONLY thing they don't provide us with is self-respect.

Yeah, good points. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on August 07, 2022, 02:13:20 am
@Hoodat

We are NOT going to help  Taiwan.

We can't afford to piss off China because they can cut off our supply of GM automatic transmissions,Smithfield sandwich meats,virtually EVERYTHING in Wal-Mart,etc,etc,etc.

Hell,cheap Chinese crap is what is keeping America moving these days.

The ONLY thing they don't provide us with is self-respect.

Gee, remember the good ole days when mostly everything in Walmart was made in the USA??
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 07, 2022, 02:15:30 am
Gee, remember the good ole days when mostly everything in Walmart was made in the USA??

I make it a point not to buy anything made in China.  Paid $40 recently for an external DVD drive made in Malaysia.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 07, 2022, 02:18:37 am
Gee, remember the good ole days when mostly everything in Walmart was made in the USA??

@libertybele

I even remember them bragging about it in their advertisements.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on August 07, 2022, 02:25:31 am
@libertybele

I even remember them bragging about it in their advertisements.

@sneakypete  Absolutely and I also remember an advertisement to look for the Union Label. Gone are those days and it is really a shame.  Thank you George Bush Sr. for drafting NAFTA and Billy Bob for signing the bill.  *****rollingeyes*****

Trump was starting to point us back in that direction, but obviously the globalists have other ideas.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 07, 2022, 12:40:02 pm
Gee, remember the good ole days when mostly everything in Walmart was made in the USA??

I remember it well.

That was before Sam Walton passed away.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 07, 2022, 01:16:46 pm
Inside the city of the damned: What's going on in Putin occupied Kherson has been hidden from the world. But insider accounts obtained by veteran war reporter DAVID PATRIKARAKOS expose unimaginable evil - and the awesome courage of the Ukrainian resistance

By DAVID PATRIKARAKOS FOR THE DAILY MAIL
5 August 2022

A cloud of thick smoke hangs over the occupied city of Kherson in Ukraine. Its very stench is evidence of Russian war crimes, on a scale almost too sickening to contemplate.

The smoke comes from mobile incinerators that are running night and day. Vladimir Putin's paranoid soldiers are burning the corpses of Ukrainian citizens tortured and murdered on suspicion of helping the resistance.

And they are dispatching the bodies of their own comrades too — hundreds of them. The Russians are killed by the constant pounding of Ukrainian shells from artillery placements surrounding the city and by highly organised, secret units of freedom fighters.

They are even killed by gangs of youths armed with knives who set upon drunken Russians and stab them.

The incinerators fill Kherson with the reek of charred flesh. There is no mistaking the smell and it adds to the pervasive sense of horror in this Black Sea port. It is a living hell.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11086027/Insider-accounts-obtained-veteran-war-reporter-expose-unimaginable-evil-Kherson.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 07, 2022, 01:17:40 pm
Inside the city of the damned: What's going on in Putin occupied Kherson has been hidden from the world. But insider accounts obtained by veteran war reporter DAVID PATRIKARAKOS expose unimaginable evil - and the awesome courage of the Ukrainian resistance

By DAVID PATRIKARAKOS FOR THE DAILY MAIL
5 August 2022

A cloud of thick smoke hangs over the occupied city of Kherson in Ukraine. Its very stench is evidence of Russian war crimes, on a scale almost too sickening to contemplate.

The smoke comes from mobile incinerators that are running night and day. Vladimir Putin's paranoid soldiers are burning the corpses of Ukrainian citizens tortured and murdered on suspicion of helping the resistance.

And they are dispatching the bodies of their own comrades too — hundreds of them. The Russians are killed by the constant pounding of Ukrainian shells from artillery placements surrounding the city and by highly organised, secret units of freedom fighters.

They are even killed by gangs of youths armed with knives who set upon drunken Russians and stab them.

The incinerators fill Kherson with the reek of charred flesh. There is no mistaking the smell and it adds to the pervasive sense of horror in this Black Sea port. It is a living hell.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11086027/Insider-accounts-obtained-veteran-war-reporter-expose-unimaginable-evil-Kherson.html


Running crematoria 24/7, just like their intellectual and philosophical forebears, the German Nazis.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 07, 2022, 02:02:24 pm
Modern day Einsatzgruppen.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 07, 2022, 02:10:24 pm

Running crematoria 24/7, just like their intellectual and philosophical forebears, the German Nazis.

@Kamaji

Not to mention ALLIES during the early part of the war. In fact,right up to the point where the Nazi's invaded Russia.

Hell,it was Russia that gave/leased the land the Nazi's needed to develop the weapons they used during WW-2. They couldn't do it in Germany due to the stipulations they agreed to in reference to military arms that they signed at the end of WW-1. Without the aid of the Communists,WW-2 wouldn't have even been possible.

Part of the irony over this is that it was the dedicated German Communists living in Germany that were the ones that helped set this up with the USSR that were the first ones rounded up and executed once the Nazi's "came out of the closet".
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 07, 2022, 02:10:57 pm
Modern day Einsatzgruppen.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 08, 2022, 12:19:09 pm
Russian forces are using deadly butterfly mines in Donbas that maim children who mistake them for toys, Britain’s MoD warns

By ADAM SOLOMONS FOR MAILONLINE
8 August 2022

Putin's forces are laying 'indiscriminate' butterfly landmines that children could confuse for toys in eastern Ukraine, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) has warned.

Anti-personnel PFM-1 mines deployed in the Soviet Afghan War are thought to have 'maimed high numbers of children who mistook them for toys', the British MoD stated in its daily bulletin on the conflict.

The MoD added: 'It is highly likely that the Soviet-era stock being used by Russia will have degraded over time and are now highly unreliable and unpredictable.

'This poses a threat to both the local population and humanitarian mine clearance operations.'

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11091505/Russia-using-butterfly-mines-Donbas-maim-children-mistake-toys-MoD-warns.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on August 08, 2022, 01:09:24 pm
Another celebrity visitor. Anyone know what the symbol on the president's t-shirt means?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FZnYgWrUcAEw8GY?format=png&name=small)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on August 08, 2022, 01:17:03 pm
Former State Dept. official tweets:
Quote
Gabriel Noronha
@GLNoronhaZelensky is now calling for sanctions on Russia's nuclear industry, which is dominated by state-owned nuclear enterprise Rosatom.

Rosatom has a $10 billion contract to construct nuclear reactors at Bushehr, Iran, which @StateDept exempted from sanctions earlier this year.
10:04 PM · Aug 7, 2022
Could it be, then, that our own State Dept is working against Ukraine's interests?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 08, 2022, 01:39:23 pm
Former State Dept. official tweets:Could it be, then, that our own State Dept is working against Ukraine's interests?

@mountaineer

As a wise man once noted,"follow the money".
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 08, 2022, 02:22:38 pm
Former State Dept. official tweets:Could it be, then, that our own State Dept is working against Ukraine's interests?

Ya think?  It is in the State Department's best interest to keep this conflict going as long as possible.  Give Ukraine just enough to delay capitulation, but never enough to drive Russia out.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 08, 2022, 02:25:44 pm
Another celebrity visitor. Anyone know what the symbol on the president's t-shirt means?

Ukrainian Armed Forces emblem.

(https://imgs.search.brave.com/XyMqnSYdnwhU48xMiZ4ACSgUBM6h1rcRz5lmcU0HEwU/rs:fit:820:600:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pbWcu/ZmF2cG5nLmNvbS8y/MC8xMy8yNS9hcm1l/ZC1mb3JjZXMtb2Yt/dWtyYWluZS1taW5p/c3RyeS1vZi1kZWZl/bmNlLW1pbGl0YXJ5/LXVrcmFpbmlhbi1n/cm91bmQtZm9yY2Vz/LXBuZy1mYXZwbmct/MndxcjFDVHRmc1ZE/dnZnZnRWMUNjY1Fh/di5qcGc)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 08, 2022, 05:18:51 pm
Russian commander in charge of Europe's largest nuclear plant 'has wired it with explosives and told the Ukrainians he will blow it up if they try to take it back', Kyiv's state atomic energy firm says

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
8 August 2022

The Russian commander in charge of Europe's largest nuclear plant has wired it with explosives and threatened to blow it up if Ukraine tries to take it back, Kyiv claims.

Major-general Valery Vasilyev, who commands Russia's nuclear, biological and chemical protection troops, has reportedly told Ukraine about the bombs and warned: 'This will be either Russian land or scorched earth.'

Vasilyev also told his men that even if they are given 'the toughest order, we must fulfil it with honor,' according to Ukraine's state atomic energy firm Energoatom.

It comes after a weekend of artillery blasts at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant which damaged power lines, knocked out sensor and wounded a worker. Russia and Ukraine have each blamed the other for the strikes.

Zaporizhzhia has been on Russian-occupied territory since March, but continues to be operated by Ukrainian technicians working under the barrels of Moscow's troops.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11091763/Shelling-Europes-largest-nuclear-plant-suicidal-head-says.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 08, 2022, 05:32:32 pm
Quote
Major-general Valery Vasilyev, who commands Russia's nuclear, biological and chemical protection troops, has reportedly told Ukraine about the bombs and warned: 'This will be either Russian land or scorched earth.'

Can you say "International War Crimes Tribunal"?

I thought you could. The Euroweenies that typically try to get America to bear the brunt of anything negative will be losing some sleep over this one.

BTW,am I the only one that thinks this is just one more example of how desperate the Soviet Union,Part 2,is getting?

This is nothing less than a nuclear threat to all of Europe,in a desperate attempt to convince the west to let them get away with invading a sovereign nation to steal it's natural resources.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 08, 2022, 05:36:39 pm
Can you say "International War Crimes Tribunal"?

I thought you could. The Euroweenies that typically try to get America to bear the brunt of anything negative will be losing some sleep over this one.

BTW,am I the only one that thinks this is just one more example of how desperate the Soviet Union,Part 2,is getting?

This is nothing less than a nuclear threat to all of Europe,in a desperate attempt to convince the west to let them get away with invading a sovereign nation to steal it's natural resources.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 08, 2022, 05:37:55 pm
Freedom my a*s ---- this whole sh*tshow is state-sponsored money laundering

BREAKING: Biden admin to send additional $4.5 BILLION to Ukraine
These new funds will go directly to Ukraine's government.
The Post Millennial, Aug 8, 2022

According to Reuters, the US Agency for International Development made the announcement on Monday: "The funding, coordinated with the U.S. Treasury Department through the World Bank, will go to the Ukraine government in tranches, beginning with a $3 billion disbursement in August, USAID, the Agency for International Development, said," they report.

Transfer payments of $1.7 billion in July and $1.3 billion in June were already made earlier this year. Billions were also provided in military support, and a $1 billion weapons package is expected to make its way in the near future.

Ukrainian officials say that they face a $5-billion-a-month fiscal shortfall due to the war. The World Bank estimates that over half of Ukrainians willl be living in poverty by the end of 2023.

USAID says that the US's financial support to the wartorn Ukraine has allowed for their government to keep gas and electricity flowing to critical infrastructure. The funds have also gone towards teachers, nurses, and other civil servants.

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-biden-admin-to-send-additional-4-5-billion-to-ukraine?utm_campaign=64483

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 08, 2022, 05:51:07 pm
Freedom my a*s ---- this whole sh*tshow is state-sponsored money laundering

BREAKING: Biden admin to send additional $4.5 BILLION to Ukraine
These new funds will go directly to Ukraine's government.
The Post Millennial, Aug 8, 2022

According to Reuters, the US Agency for International Development made the announcement on Monday: "The funding, coordinated with the U.S. Treasury Department through the World Bank, will go to the Ukraine government in tranches, beginning with a $3 billion disbursement in August, USAID, the Agency for International Development, said," they report.

In other words, $0 for weapons.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 08, 2022, 05:52:45 pm
The Russian commander in charge of Europe's largest nuclear plant has wired it with explosives and threatened to blow it up if Ukraine tries to take it back, Kyiv claims.

Major-general Valery Vasilyev, who commands Russia's nuclear, biological and chemical protection troops, has reportedly told Ukraine about the bombs and warned: 'This will be either Russian land or scorched earth.'

Sounds just like something a nazi would do.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 08, 2022, 05:53:34 pm
In other words, $0 for weapons.

You're being played ---  still.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DefiantMassRINO on August 08, 2022, 05:54:43 pm
The US State Department works against America's interests.

I think the Ukranians aren't too picky about the conidtion of the land they get back, so long as they can plant a Ukranian flag on it.

What perplexes me is why isn't the Western intelligence complex actively working to foment simultaneous civil unrest and economic disruption in Moldova, Belarus, Crimea, and Georgia.

There should be a much greater sense of urgency among the West to expel Russia from Ukraine as soon as possible.  Time is Ukraine's greatest enemy.

Russia will take whatever it needs.  Ukraine needs to be supplied by the West.  As Winter cold envelops Europe, Germany and France will become more conciliatory towards Russia to obtain natural gas.

That's one common theme with the Biden junta.  They never seem to demonstrate any sense of urgency - Afghanistan evacuation, Port of LA backlog, aiding Ukraine, US inflation, Covid-19 community surveillance, Covid-19 surge capacity, etc. 

Real people are suffering in the real world and their priority is a non-exitstent, existential, imaginary crisis, Global Climate Change. The Earth's climate was changing before humanity existed, and it will continue to change when humanity no longer exists.

The Biden admin has to respond to so many crisies because it is too aloof to manage things before they become a crisis.  Management by crisis - the crises will keep coming until the Dems are out of office.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: libertybele on August 08, 2022, 06:00:36 pm
You're being played ---  still.

It isn't our war and Americans are hurting.  We've given plenty to Zelenskyy.  The U.S. would be wise to take care of their own country first.  If America goes down so does the rest of the world.

KEEP AMERICA FIRST!!!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 08, 2022, 06:04:34 pm
You're being played ---  still.

Being played?  I've been calling this out since Day One.  You haven't read my posts?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 08, 2022, 06:06:34 pm
It isn't our war and Americans are hurting.

It's going to be our war (economically) when Russia seizes control of Ukrainian oil, gas, and food.  And the Biden Administration is helping it happen.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 08, 2022, 06:38:32 pm
Being played?  I've been calling this out since Day One.  You haven't read my posts?

You're being willingly played by the whole sh*tshow and every inch of our involvement.  Ukraine is blackmailing and robbing us in plain sight-----they're also selling our weapons to the highest bidder ---- and will continue to do both as long as there is one Ukrainian still breathing and one Bidenite still standing.

The Ukraine remains a black hole of corruption masquerading as a country ---- and in a sane world with sane leadership would be none our concern.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 08, 2022, 07:02:05 pm
You're being willingly played by the whole sh*tshow and every inch of our involvement.

Nope.  I have been calling them out since Day One, which my posts both here and on the previous thread prove.  Announcements of weapons to be sent to Ukraine?  I called them out.  $40 billion spending package?  I called them out.  The State Dept approving MiG transfers to Ukraine?  I called them out.

The difference here is that I still support sending weapons to Ukraine because their cause is just.  And that is where you and I differ.  But let the record show that at no time during this whole encounter have I supported what the Biden Administration is doing.  I recognize their bullshit, and I have been calling it out each and every day.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 08, 2022, 07:03:12 pm
Nope.  I have been calling them out since Day One, which my posts both here and on the previous thread prove.  Announcements of weapons to be sent to Ukraine?  I called them out.  $40 billion spending package?  I called them out.  The State Dept approving MiG transfers to Ukraine?  I called them out.

The difference here is that I still support sending weapons to Ukraine because their cause is just.  And that is where you and I differ.  But let the record show that at no time during this whole encounter have I supported what the Biden Administration is doing.  I recognize their bullshit, and I have been calling it out each and every day.


:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 08, 2022, 08:31:35 pm
Russian commander in charge of Europe's largest nuclear plant 'has wired it with explosives and told the Ukrainians he will blow it up if they try to take it back', Kyiv's state atomic energy firm says

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
8 August 2022

The Russian commander in charge of Europe's largest nuclear plant has wired it with explosives and threatened to blow it up if Ukraine tries to take it back, Kyiv claims.

Major-general Valery Vasilyev, who commands Russia's nuclear, biological and chemical protection troops, has reportedly told Ukraine about the bombs and warned: 'This will be either Russian land or scorched earth.'

Vasilyev also told his men that even if they are given 'the toughest order, we must fulfil it with honor,' according to Ukraine's state atomic energy firm Energoatom.

It comes after a weekend of artillery blasts at the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant which damaged power lines, knocked out sensor and wounded a worker. Russia and Ukraine have each blamed the other for the strikes.

Zaporizhzhia has been on Russian-occupied territory since March, but continues to be operated by Ukrainian technicians working under the barrels of Moscow's troops.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11091763/Shelling-Europes-largest-nuclear-plant-suicidal-head-says.html

I have a potential solution:  Destroy all the power lines leaving the Nuke Plant, rendering it useless.  Won't stop the Ruskies from blowing it up, but they won't be able to ship electrical power back to the Motherland either.

After the war ends, whoever is the victor can just rebuild the lines.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 09, 2022, 11:01:51 am
Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11

The Regime wants you outraged at Vladimir Putin for his anti-democratic, "thuggish behavior" so you'll be too distracted to notice how America under Joe Biden has devolved into a Stalin-esque Political Dystopia.

Your enemies aren't in Moscow—they're in Washington DC.

8:33 PM · Aug 8, 2022·Twitter Web App
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 09, 2022, 12:39:33 pm
Charlie Kirk
@charliekirk11

The Regime wants you outraged at Vladimir Putin for his anti-democratic, "thuggish behavior" so you'll be too distracted to notice how America under Joe Biden has devolved into a Stalin-esque Political Dystopia.

Your enemies aren't in Moscow—they're in Washington DC.

8:33 PM · Aug 8, 2022·Twitter Web App

Yep...  after last night there is no hiding that fact.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 09, 2022, 03:41:06 pm
I have no problem giving weapons to the American people too.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 09, 2022, 05:46:19 pm
Putin loses his 100th colonel as US says 80,000 Russian troops have been either killed or wounded during invasion of Ukraine

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
9 August 2022

Vladimir Putin has now lost at least 100 colonels in the war in Ukraine, as the US says up to 80,000 Russian troops have been killed or wounded in the fighting.

Lieutenant-Colonel Vitaly Tsikul, 36 and a tank commander, was confirmed dead by Russian media which showed footage of his funeral taking place in the town of Chebarkul, central Russia.

His death was revealed as Colin Kahl, third-most senior official at the Pentagon, said that up to 80,000 Russia soldiers have been taken out less than six months of war.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11095579/Putin-loses-100th-colonel-says-80-000-Russian-troops-dead-wounded.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 09, 2022, 06:11:29 pm
Large explosions rock a Russian military air base in Crimea

SUSIE BLANN, AP  |  AUG. 9, 2022  |  8:36 AM PT


KYIV, Ukraine — Powerful explosions rocked a Russian air base in Crimea on Tuesday, and at least five people, including a child, were wounded, authorities said.

Russia’s Defense Ministry said that munitions blew up at the Saki base, and it emphasized that the installation had not been shelled. Ukrainian social networks were abuzz with speculation that it was hit by Ukrainian-fired long-range missiles.

There was no immediate comment from Ukrainian authorities.

Videos posted on social networks showed sunbathers fleeing a nearby beach as huge clouds of smoke from the explosions rose over the horizon.

If the base was, in fact, struck by the Ukrainians, it would mark the first known major attack on a Russian military site on the Crimean peninsula, which was annexed by the Kremlin in 2014. The headquarters of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port of Sevastopol was hit by a small-scale explosion delivered by a makeshift drone last month in an attack blamed on Ukrainian saboteurs.  .  .  .

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-08-09/explosions-russian-military-air-base-crimea-ukraine
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 09, 2022, 06:12:10 pm
Large explosions rock a Russian military air base in Crimea

SUSIE BLANN, AP  |  AUG. 9, 2022  |  8:36 AM PT


KYIV, Ukraine — Powerful explosions rocked a Russian air base in Crimea on Tuesday, and at least five people, including a child, were wounded, authorities said.

Russia’s Defense Ministry said that munitions blew up at the Saki base, and it emphasized that the installation had not been shelled. Ukrainian social networks were abuzz with speculation that it was hit by Ukrainian-fired long-range missiles.

There was no immediate comment from Ukrainian authorities.

Videos posted on social networks showed sunbathers fleeing a nearby beach as huge clouds of smoke from the explosions rose over the horizon.

If the base was, in fact, struck by the Ukrainians, it would mark the first known major attack on a Russian military site on the Crimean peninsula, which was annexed by the Kremlin in 2014. The headquarters of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port of Sevastopol was hit by a small-scale explosion delivered by a makeshift drone last month in an attack blamed on Ukrainian saboteurs.  .  .  .

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-08-09/explosions-russian-military-air-base-crimea-ukraine

Drunk Russians mishandling high explosive munitions.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 10, 2022, 04:24:59 am
Ukrainian troops 'advance towards Izyum' as fighting rages in Donbas

22h ago  |  01:33


Ukraine reported intense shelling across the frontlines on Tuesday as both sides traded blame for the weekend strike on the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant.

Heavy fighting was reported near the eastern city of Donetsk, where Ukrainian officials said Russian troops were launching waves of attacks as they try to seize control of the industrialised Donbas region.

"The situation in the region is tense - shelling is constant throughout the front line ... The enemy is also using air strikes a great deal," Donetsk regional governor Pavlo Kyrylenko said.

"The enemy is having no success. Donetsk region is holding."

Around Kharkiv in the northeast, Ukrainian troops captured the town of Dovhenke from Russian occupiers and were advancing towards Izyum, Ukrainian presidential adviser Oleksiy Arestovych said.  .  .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-russia-has-wired-nuclear-power-plant-with-explosives-no-basis-for-zelenskyy-putin-peace-talks-two-key-bridges-hit-12541713?postid=4269763#liveblog-body
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mountaineer on August 10, 2022, 11:19:36 am
Ukraine war must end with liberation of Crimea – Zelensky
By Francesca Gillett
BBC News
5 hours ago

The war in Ukraine began with Crimea and must end with its liberation, President Volodymyr Zelensky has said.

Ukraine's president was speaking after a string of explosions hit a Russian airbase there, killing one person.

Mr Zelensky did not mention Tuesday's blasts but said: "Crimea is Ukrainian and we will never give it up."

Russia's defence ministry said ammunition detonated at the base. Meanwhile, Ukraine denied any responsibility for the explosions.

In a separate development, Ukrainian officials say 13 people were killed in overnight Russian strikes in the central Dnipropetrovsk region, and another one in the Zaporizhzhia region in the south.

Crimea is internationally recognised as part of Ukraine - but the Black Sea peninsula was annexed by Russia in 2014 after a referendum which the global community sees as illegitimate. Many Ukrainians see this as the start of their war with Russia.  ...  Full story at BBC (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62487303)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 11, 2022, 01:58:44 am
Drunk Russians mishandling high explosive munitions.

No, they got hit with something really big.



Crimea airbase badly damaged, satellite images show

Joshua Cheetham, Francesca Gillett & Erwan Rivault, BBC  |  1 hour ago


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/9E09/production/_126275404_cad653ecb58cde5a53a79ddc938f427282621b85.jpg)

Satellite images appear to show extensive damage and several destroyed Russian warplanes at a Crimea airbase following explosions earlier this week.

The Saky base in the west of Russian-ruled Crimea was rocked by a string of blasts on Tuesday, killing one person.

Ukraine has not claimed responsibility - but this new evidence suggests the possibility of a targeted attack.

The images, from the US-based Planet Labs, show large areas of scorched earth left from fires that erupted.

The base's main runways seem to be intact, but at least eight aircraft appear to be damaged and destroyed, with several craters clearly visible.

Most of them are in a specific area of the base where a large number of planes were parked out in the open - away from the cover of hangars.  .  .

Before and after satellite images:


(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/C519/production/_126275405_1d25178d-dec3-4088-8b1b-986b551329f1.png)

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/EC29/production/_126275406_8a043c0e-0c0c-47c3-b6f6-dbc709c8697a.png)

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62500560



This is a mystery because the Ukrainians don't have anything with this range that could cause blasts this big (that we know of).  So Russia got hit with
1)  a missile or bomb fired by US, UK, etc.
2)  a missile fired by Russian mutineers
3)  a new sea-launched Ukraine weapon



Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 11, 2022, 11:23:21 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aogXDzA_460s.jpg)

Putin and the Russian Airforce said it was a cigarette, which caused an explosion.
This was not an attack!!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 12, 2022, 12:02:30 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a91oDK6_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 12, 2022, 12:11:20 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a91oDK6_460s.jpg)

Translation


Individuals in July bought currency on the Moscow Exchange for a record 237.1 billion rubles, according to the Bank of Russia.
Individuals became significant buyers of currency on the Mosexchange in July for the first time: the volume of purchases increased from 176.1 billion rubles. in June to 237.1 billion rubles. in July, which was a record volume of purchases for this category of bidders, the Central Bank notes. Individuals purchased currency mainly through banks, which then made transfers to foreign accounts.

Meanwhile, the largest buyers of currency in the domestic market were "non-systemically important credit organizations", which purchased currency for 319.6 billion rubles, including for the needs of importers, the Central Bank explains. Non-residents from friendly countries also increased their purchases of currency on the Moscow Exchange. The main suppliers of currency are large banks that convert the revenue of exporting customers.

Balances on the bank accounts of individuals in foreign currency decreased in July by $ 3 billion As imports recover, we can expect an increase in the need of market participants in foreign currency, the Central Bank concludes.

The Central Bank said last week that it would take measures to further de-dollarize the Russian economy.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 12, 2022, 12:29:48 am
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aogXDzA_460s.jpg)

Putin and the Russian Airforce said it was a cigarette, which caused an explosion.
This was not an attack!!

@240B

Doan no bout yall,but dis sure makes ME glad ah quit smokin!

Doan no hoo dat Russian soljur was,but he musta had a EPIC case of gas!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 12, 2022, 12:33:59 am
What do you think did this, @sneakypete ?

This airbase is just north of Sevastopol.   A HIMARS could reach it, but it doesn't have this much explosive power.  Six separate strikes were reported by civilian tourists in the area.  Bigtime traffic jam heading back across the Kerch strait.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 12, 2022, 12:58:20 am
What do you think did this, @sneakypete ?

This airbase is just north of Sevastopol.   A HIMARS could reach it, but it doesn't have this much explosive power.  Six separate strikes were reported by civilian tourists in the area.  Bigtime traffic jam heading back across the Kerch strait.

You know we'll be blamed, right?  And I cannot say they would be wrong.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 12, 2022, 01:01:21 am
What do you think did this, @sneakypete ?

This airbase is just north of Sevastopol.   A HIMARS could reach it, but it doesn't have this much explosive power.  Six separate strikes were reported by civilian tourists in the area.  Bigtime traffic jam heading back across the Kerch strait.
Some reports, and who know what is true, say it was ground and sea missile attack, with an SF attack force follow. In war, who knows what is true? But I think we all know, 'it was a cigarette and no aircraft were damaged' line, is likely not what happened.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 12, 2022, 01:01:38 am
Here's some tourist video:

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1556996656079507456?t=hNyS_BFi7BYqksw3z2bTJQ&s=19
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 12, 2022, 01:02:16 am
What do you think did this, @sneakypete ?

This airbase is just north of Sevastopol.   A HIMARS could reach it, but it doesn't have this much explosive power.  Six separate strikes were reported by civilian tourists in the area.  Bigtime traffic jam heading back across the Kerch strait.

@Hoodat

While I AM impressed,I  honestly don't have a clue. I was just a simple grunt toting  a rifle,not a zoomie.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 12, 2022, 12:48:56 pm
Russians Fleeing Crimea

https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52243 (https://www.battleswarmblog.com/?p=52243)

I suppose I should clarify that the Russian fleeing Crimea are not Russian soldiers but civilians.

    Videos posted to social media show Russian vacationers fleeing Crimea following blasts at a military air base in the region that Moscow seized from Ukraine in 2014.

    Black smoke from the Saki air base located in the west of the peninsula was visible from the nearby packed beaches after the attack on Tuesday which the Russian-appointed head of Crimea, Sergei Aksyonov, said had left one person dead and 14 injured.

    The explosion sparked an exodus from the area which has been a popular holiday resort for years with videos showing people driving over the Kerch Bridge that links Crimea with the Russian territory of Krasnodar.

    In one video, a woman expressed gratitude that her car was at least moving in the traffic jam, although she tearfully lamented how she had to leave Crimea.

More at link.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1557397898173812737 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1557397898173812737)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 12, 2022, 12:55:06 pm
Glad to see rank and file Russians getting the hell out of Ukrainian Crimea.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 12, 2022, 01:02:09 pm
Glad to see rank and file Russians getting the hell out of Ukrainian Crimea.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on August 12, 2022, 01:14:45 pm
Send Money: Ukraine Calls Again for More Funds, Arms, Munitions, Fighter Jets, to ‘Stop Russia’

Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky on Thursday renewed his almost weekly call for Western nations to do more to help his besieged nation in its fight against invading Russian forces.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2022/08/12/send-money-ukraine-calls-again-for-more-funds-arms-munitions-fighter-jets-to-stop-russia/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 12, 2022, 01:15:47 pm
Weapons would be nice.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 12, 2022, 01:16:57 pm
Weapons would be nice.

Only after they finish filling out all of the woke coloring books they were sent, first, and can recite all 57 genders, and their associated pronouns, without cue cards.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: catfish1957 on August 12, 2022, 01:38:28 pm
Weapons would be nice.

Putin losing Crimea would be huge, and probably result in his ouster.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 12, 2022, 01:45:26 pm
Putin losing Crimea would be huge, and probably result in his ouster.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: mystery-ak on August 12, 2022, 03:46:14 pm
Lawmakers are heading to Ukraine with or without White House’s approval
by Laura Kelly - 08/12/22 6:00 AM ET


Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick (R-Pa) didn’t give the Biden administration a chance to reject his request to travel to Ukraine when he visited Kyiv and Odesa in May.   

The former FBI agent, who helped stand up Ukraine’s National Anti-Corruption Bureau in 2015, traveled with Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-Texas), relying on a network of personal contacts and the Ukrainian government to ensure his safety.

“Me and Dan just decided to go, because we were told that [trips] were not being approved,” Fitzpatrick told The Hill in an interview in his office in late July. “So that’s why we chose that course. Dan’s a Navy SEAL, I’m an FBI agent, so we can handle ourselves.”

A member of the House committees on Intelligence and on Foreign Affairs, Fitzpatrick was intent on seeing for himself what impact U.S. assistance in the country was having following the passage of a $40 billion aid package earlier that month.

“A lot of people wanted, and still want to, go to Ukraine, a lot,” Fitzpatrick said.   

Before he went, he said he’d already got the word his trip was unlikely to be approved for support from the Biden administration. But he wasn’t going to let that stop him.   

At least one Democrat and six Republican lawmakers, including Fitzpatrick, have traveled to Ukraine independently between April and July.   

The lawmakers have made the trips without bothering to get permission from the Biden administration, which has warned of security risks. 

The administration began withholding approval over fears that security provided by the U.S. military risked a direct confrontation with Russia if American service members were wounded or killed. 

Support for Ukraine remains strong among both parties in Congress, and many members want to visit the country. 

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who traveled independently to Kyiv in July, said approval for his trip was denied because the State Department didn’t feel that it had “the footprint on the ground to take care of us.”

“We went through a system that other senators had used, and I’m hoping the administration will start supporting these trips,” Graham told The Hill. “It was a great trip. We were well taken care of. I would encourage members to go, they have a very good, reliable system.”

Some trips have won approval.   

The administration sanctioned a trip late last month for a bipartisan group of House Armed Services Committee members.

Rep. Mike Waltz (R-Fla.), who traveled on the trip, said the chairman of the committee, Rep. Adam Smith (D-Wash), “had to really jump through some hoops to get that approval.”

And it earlier shepherded senior congressional leaders — House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) — on visits to Kyiv.

Lawmakers who have made such trips have kept the details to themselves.     

more
https://thehill.com/policy/international/3594498-lawmakers-are-heading-to-ukraine-with-or-without-white-houses-approval/
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 12, 2022, 07:47:18 pm
Putin losing Crimea would be huge, and probably result in his ouster.

@catfish1957

Call me a starry-eyed dreamer if you want,but I honestly think it would result in a total realignment of the neo-Soviet mindset,a HUGE reduction in Russian aggression,and possibly,an end to the Cold War in Europe.

Seriously.  This could be maybe the biggest thing that happens in our life times.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on August 12, 2022, 09:39:47 pm
@catfish1957

Call me a starry-eyed dreamer if you want,but I honestly think it would result in a total realignment of the neo-Soviet mindset,a HUGE reduction in Russian aggression,and possibly,an end to the Cold War in Europe.

Seriously.  This could be maybe the biggest thing that happens in our life times.

No, crushing the USSR and ending the threat of global thermal nuclear war along with freeing Eastern Europe from the communist tyranny was the biggest thing in our lifetimes.

I do agree with you that destroying Russia's ability to wage war would be big. If Ukraine is able to retake Kherson and kill 10's of thousands of Russians in the process we might see an end to Russia war mongering for at least another generation.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 13, 2022, 12:03:31 am
No, crushing the USSR and ending the threat of global thermal nuclear war along with freeing Eastern Europe from the communist tyranny was the biggest thing in our lifetimes.

I do agree with you that destroying Russia's ability to wage war would be big. If Ukraine is able to retake Kherson and kill 10's of thousands of Russians in the process we might see an end to Russia war mongering for at least another generation.


@bilo

Now I am confused. Isn't that basically the same thing  I said?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 13, 2022, 07:27:03 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aog7gQx_700b.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 14, 2022, 03:13:52 am
No, crushing the USSR and ending the threat of global thermal nuclear war along with freeing Eastern Europe from the communist tyranny was the biggest thing in our lifetimes.

Wouldn't we need to dispose of nuclear wepons around the world to end the threat of global thermal nuclear war?

And, any interest in freeing the US from the communist tyranny of Brussels?

Asking for a friend ......
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 14, 2022, 04:08:28 am
Communist tyranny of Brussels?  LOL
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 14, 2022, 04:17:59 am
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaBySHUX0AAeJ3w?format=jpg&name=small)


39 Tanks, 39 APCs, 14 artillery systems, and 22 UAVs in last four days.  Russia keeps making push in Donetsk, but attacks are being repelled.  Russian command center has left Kherson and crossed Dnieper River.   
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 14, 2022, 04:36:32 am
https://twitter.com/Lyla_lilas/status/1558103247780470784
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 14, 2022, 10:05:45 am
Communist tyranny of Brussels?  LOL

Pay attention to your real threat coming out of Europe ----- Brussels is the cradle of the WEF and the global reset.  Your not understading what's happening does not make it funny.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on August 14, 2022, 06:25:55 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FaBySHUX0AAeJ3w?format=jpg&name=small)


39 Tanks, 39 APCs, 14 artillery systems, and 22 UAVs in last four days.  Russia keeps making push in Donetsk, but attacks are being repelled. Russian command center has left Kherson and crossed Dnieper River.

As I understand it, the Ukrainians have made all the bridges leading into the region unusuable for heavy equipment. The Russians though have increased their troops there though. Hopefully the Ukrainians can prevail. If so I believe they may be close enough to attack the bridge that connects Russia with Crimea. 
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 14, 2022, 06:32:07 pm
Pay attention to your real threat coming out of Europe ----- Brussels is the cradle of the WEF and the global reset.  Your not understading what's happening does not make it funny.

The WEF is based in Switzerland.  NATO is based in Brussels.  You not knowing that does not make it funny.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 14, 2022, 09:27:33 pm
The WEF is based in Switzerland.  NATO is based in Brussels. 

Brussels houses the EU ---- the strong-arm of the WEF--- responsible for implementing the great reset throughout Europe.   They're your heroes, the ones you insist we defend.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 14, 2022, 09:41:09 pm
Brussels houses the EU ---- the strong-arm of the WEF--- responsible for implementing the great reset throughout Europe.

That doesn't change the fact that the WEF is based in Switzerland and is independent of the EU which is spread between Brussels, Luxembourg City, and Strassbourg.


They're your heroes, the ones you insist we defend.

That is a lie.  I have never insisted that we defend either the EU or the WEF.  Not a single time.  It is a false narrative that you have been pushing here for months.  It is a narrative that I have asked you to back up with any comment I have made.  Your failure to do so means that deep down, you know it is a lie.  Yet here you are again telling that lie.  Do you know what that makes you?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 14, 2022, 09:56:58 pm
That doesn't change the fact that the WEF is based in Switzerland and is independent of the EU which is spread between Brussels, Luxembourg City, and Strassbourg.

Deliberately obtuse.

Quote
That is a lie.  I have never insisted that we defend either the EU or the WEF. 

Insisting we defend Europe insists we defend those calling the shots regarding the border dispute in the Ukraine --- and the EU and WEF are calling the shots.  .  You can still choose to let the EU handle this ..... but you won't.  Your every post supports submission to the EU and WEF --- even with the known risks of economic and national security harm to the United States.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 14, 2022, 10:32:19 pm
Deliberately obtuse.

Deliberately incapable of admitting your mistake.


Insisting we defend Europe insists we defend those calling the shots regarding the border dispute in the Ukraine --- and the EU and WEF are calling the shots.

Show me where I insisted we defend Europe.  You can't.  Another lie on your part.  Of course this has been pointed out before on this thread, yet here you are again pushing a narrative you already know to be false.  Do you know what that makes you?


You can still choose to let the EU handle this ..... but you won't.  Your every post supports submission to the EU and WEF --- even with the known risks of economic and national security harm to the United States.

I really don't give a damn about the EU, although I am intrigued about the contradiction with the statement above and your insistence that I am yielding to the EU/WEF order.  This is what happens when one chooses to abandon integrity in any discussion.  You are just reaching for things to throw, totally unaware of the contradictions you create in the process.


Your every post supports submission to the EU and WEF

For the umpteenth time, show me any post I have made that supports submission to the WEF or EU.  The fact is that you can't.  And you know you can't.  If you could, you would have posted it already.  Yet here you are yet again repeating this same lie - a lie that you know is a lie.  Do you know what that makes you?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 15, 2022, 11:14:42 am
Ukraine 'blows up Wagner HQ in Donbas' after Russian propagandist gave away its location and 'revealed mercenary group's owner dubbed "Putin's Chef" was there'

By WILL STEWART and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
15 August 2022

Ukraine has destroyed the headquarters of Russia's shadowy Wagner mercenary group in Donbas after a war propagandist gave away its location online.

Sergei Sreda, a so-called 'war reporter', posted pictures online last week of himself at the base - in the city of Popasna - and shaking hands with a man who appeared to be Yevgeny Prigozhin, the oligarch dubbed 'Putin's chef' who owns Wagner.

But the pictures also included details - such as the address of a nearby bomb shelter - that allowed experts to quickly pinpoint its location. On Sunday, Russian Telegram channels with links to Wagner confirmed it had been hit.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11112131/Ukraine-blows-Wagner-HQ-Donbas.html

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 15, 2022, 02:59:49 pm
Ukraine has destroyed the headquarters of Russia's shadowy Wagner mercenary group in Donbas after a war propagandist gave away its location online.

Sucks to be modern day Nazi mercenaries doing Putin's bidding.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Smokin Joe on August 15, 2022, 03:02:04 pm
Sucks to be modern day Nazi mercenaries doing Putin's bidding.
Once again, by accident or design, the media have compromised OPSEC!

Keep those cards and letters coming!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 15, 2022, 06:28:07 pm
Russia 'abandons 20,000 troops' near Kherson: 'Stupid orcs' cut off as commanders flee across river in the face of Ukrainian counter-attack, governor says

By CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE
15 August 2022

Russia has abandoned 20,000 troops near Kherson in the face of a Ukrainian counter-attack, the regional governor has claimed.

Vitaly Kim said Russia is relocating command posts on the west bank of the Dnipro River to the east, leaving 'stupid orcs' - his term for Kremlin soldiers - behind.

Ukraine has already blown up all three bridges under Russian control connecting the two banks, meaning its soldiers on the west side have no easy way of resupplying, reinforcing, or retreating as Kyiv's men continue their advance.

Kim, the governor of Mykolaiv which sits on the west bank, said Monday that Russian commanders have now begun withdrawing - apparently fearing capture or death at the hands of the Ukrainians.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11112829/Russia-abandons-20-000-troops-near-Kherson-Ukraine-counter-attacks.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: DB on August 16, 2022, 04:51:00 am
It really sucks to be a pawn.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 16, 2022, 07:45:41 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aYr27A2_460s.jpg)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Ghost Bear on August 16, 2022, 08:22:18 pm
(https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aYr27A2_460s.jpg)

I think the "mysterious Ukrainian weapon" is actually partisans and/or Ukrainian special forces operating behind the Russian lines.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 16, 2022, 08:27:35 pm
I agree. Raiding a lot of drunk Russians, who don't want to be where they are can't be that hard.
You are invading a foreign land. WE live here.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: bilo on August 17, 2022, 01:53:15 am
I think the "mysterious Ukrainian weapon" is actually partisans and/or Ukrainian special forces operating behind the Russian lines.

You are probably right. Zelenskyy had a big shake up of military leaders and I believe he replaced the general in charge of their special forces.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 17, 2022, 06:37:25 pm
Putin SACKS his Black Sea naval commander after string of Ukrainian raids on bases in Crimea - as Zelensky advised to reclaim the peninsula

By REUTERS and TOM BROWN FOR MAILONLINE
17 August 2022

Russia's Black Sea fleet based in annexed Crimea has installed a new commander, RIA news agency cited sources as saying on Wednesday, after Russian military bases on the peninsula were rocked by explosions in the past nine days.

If confirmed, the removal of the previous commander Igor Osipov would mark the most prominent sacking of a military official in the nearly six months since Russia launched its war on Ukraine.

State-owned RIA said the new chief, Viktor Sokolov, was introduced to members of the fleet's military council in the port of Sevastopol.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11120267/Putin-SACKS-Black-Sea-naval-commander-string-Ukrainian-raids-bases-Crimea.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on August 17, 2022, 06:43:33 pm
Show me where I insisted we defend Europe.  You can't.  Another lie on your part.  Of course this has been pointed out before on this thread, yet here you are again pushing a narrative you already know to be false.  Do you know what that makes you?

You continue to insist we win their border conflict for them --- at any cost to the US.  I know what this makes *you*.

Quote
For the umpteenth time, show me any post I have made that supports submission to the WEF or EU. 

Putting the aspirations of the WEF and EU above the national security and economic best interests of the United States is submission ----- and  the motive for your every post.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 18, 2022, 01:39:44 am
Behind enemy lines, Ukrainians tell Russians ‘you are never safe’

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/behind-enemy-lines-ukrainians-tell-russians-you-are-never-safe/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/behind-enemy-lines-ukrainians-tell-russians-you-are-never-safe/)

ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine — They sneak down darkened alleys to set explosives. They identify Russian targets for Ukrainian artillery and long-range rockets provided by the United States. They blow up rail lines and assassinate officials they consider collaborators with the Russians.

Slipping back-and-forth across the front lines, the guerrilla fighters are known in Ukraine as partisans, and in recent weeks they have taken an ever more prominent role in the war, rattling Russian forces by helping deliver humiliating blows in occupied areas they thought were safe.

Increasingly, Ukraine is taking the fight against Russian forces into Russian-controlled areas, whether with elite military units, like the one credited Tuesday with a huge explosion at a Russian ammunition depot in the occupied Crimean Peninsula, or an underground network of the guerrillas.

Last week, Ukrainian officials said, the partisans had a hand in a successful strike on a Russian air base, also in Crimea, which Moscow annexed eight years ago. It destroyed eight fighter jets.

“The goal is to show the occupiers that they are not at home, that they should not settle in, that they should not sleep comfortably,” said one guerrilla fighter, who spoke on condition that, for security reasons, he only be identified by his code name, Svarog, after a pagan Slavic god of fire.

More at link.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 18, 2022, 10:10:19 am
Behind enemy lines, Ukrainians tell Russians ‘you are never safe’

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/behind-enemy-lines-ukrainians-tell-russians-you-are-never-safe/ (https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/behind-enemy-lines-ukrainians-tell-russians-you-are-never-safe/)

ZAPORIZHZHIA, Ukraine — They sneak down darkened alleys to set explosives. They identify Russian targets for Ukrainian artillery and long-range rockets provided by the United States. They blow up rail lines and assassinate officials they consider collaborators with the Russians.

Slipping back-and-forth across the front lines, the guerrilla fighters are known in Ukraine as partisans, and in recent weeks they have taken an ever more prominent role in the war, rattling Russian forces by helping deliver humiliating blows in occupied areas they thought were safe.

Increasingly, Ukraine is taking the fight against Russian forces into Russian-controlled areas, whether with elite military units, like the one credited Tuesday with a huge explosion at a Russian ammunition depot in the occupied Crimean Peninsula, or an underground network of the guerrillas.

Last week, Ukrainian officials said, the partisans had a hand in a successful strike on a Russian air base, also in Crimea, which Moscow annexed eight years ago. It destroyed eight fighter jets.

“The goal is to show the occupiers that they are not at home, that they should not settle in, that they should not sleep comfortably,” said one guerrilla fighter, who spoke on condition that, for security reasons, he only be identified by his code name, Svarog, after a pagan Slavic god of fire.

More at link.

:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Mod1 on August 18, 2022, 03:36:48 pm
 *look* :im waiting:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 18, 2022, 10:11:03 pm
Ukrainian Nuclear Operator Accuses Russians Hackers Of Attacking Its Website

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-enerhoatom-hacking-attack-zaporizhzhya/31992142.html (https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-enerhoatom-hacking-attack-zaporizhzhya/31992142.html)

Ukrainian state nuclear operator Enerhoatom said on August 16 that Russian-based hackers unleashed an hours-long attack on its website but said major problems had been avoided.

It blamed the attack on what it said was a Russian group called "narodnaya kiberarmya," or "popular cyberarmy."

It called the attack "the most powerful hacking attack" on its site since the invasion started.

It said the Russian group employed "7.25 million bot users who simulated hundreds of million views of the company's homepage for three hours."

More at link.

Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 18, 2022, 10:27:08 pm
россия никогда не одолеет славу украины
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: sneakypete on August 19, 2022, 12:30:13 am
россия никогда не одолеет славу украины

@240B

an bendwiawnlot to you,too,bubba!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 19, 2022, 12:54:13 am
I am amazed by your ... whatever it is.
Thank you for response. I do not understand, but who cares?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 19, 2022, 12:59:06 am
I am amazed by your ... whatever it is.
Thank you for response. I do not understand, but who cares?

I understood you fine!  Thanks Google Translate!
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 19, 2022, 01:16:42 am
Я рад, что вы одобряете
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 19, 2022, 01:55:25 am
Will shut N-plant: Russia; Ukraine warns of disaster

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/will-shut-n-plant-russia-ukraine-warns-of-disaster/articleshow/93648915.cms (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/will-shut-n-plant-russia-ukraine-warns-of-disaster/articleshow/93648915.cms)

KYIV/LVIV: UN secretary-general Antonio Guterres said on Thursday he was gravely concerned by the situation at Europe's largest nuclear power station after it came under shelling at the front lines in Ukraine. Russia, which captured the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant soon after its February 24 invasion of Ukraine, said it could shut down the facility - a move Kyiv said would increase the risk of a nuclear catastrophe. Guterres, speaking to reporters after talks with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky in the western Ukrainian city of Lviv, said military equipment and personnel should be withdrawn from the plant. "The facility must not be used as part of any military operation. Instead, agreement is urgently needed to re-establish Zaporizhzhia's purely civilian infrastructure and to ensure the safety of the area," he said.

Zelensky said after meeting Guterres on Thursday that they had agreed parameters of a possible mission of the International Atomic Energy Agency to the plant. Earlier, he had accused Russia of "nuclear blackmail". "This deliberate terror on the part of the aggressor can have global catastrophic consequences for the whole world," Zelensky wrote on Telegram messaging app.

In Moscow, the defence ministry said Russia could shut the plant down if it came under further attack. Ukrainian officials have accused Russia of planning to shut the plant to sever it from Ukraine's power grid and switch it over to Russia's - effectively stealing its output. Ukrainian state nuclear energy company Energoatom said shutting down the plant would increase the risk of "a radiation disaster at the nuclear power plant". Disconnecting the complex's generators from Ukraine's power system would prevent them being used to keep nuclear fuel cool in the event of a power outage at the plant, it said.

More: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/will-shut-n-plant-russia-ukraine-warns-of-disaster/articleshow/93648915.cms (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/europe/will-shut-n-plant-russia-ukraine-warns-of-disaster/articleshow/93648915.cms)
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Elderberry on August 19, 2022, 02:00:08 am
US will not stop Ukraine from attacking targets in Crimea – Nation World News

https://nationworldnews.com/us-will-not-stop-ukraine-from-attacking-targets-in-crimea-nation-world-news/ (https://nationworldnews.com/us-will-not-stop-ukraine-from-attacking-targets-in-crimea-nation-world-news/)

The United States government in Washington gave Ukraine the green light to attack targets on the Crimean peninsula.

The US considers Ukraine’s invasion of Crimea fair game for self-defense.

Historically Russia, Crimea was part of independent Ukraine from 1991 to 2014, before local people voted to reunify with Moscow.

“We certainly do not choose targets, and everything we provide is for self-defense purposes. Whatever targets they choose on sovereign Ukrainian soil, it is self-defense by definition,” said the unnamed official.
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Cyber Liberty on August 19, 2022, 02:40:49 am
Я рад, что вы одобряете

 :beer: :beer:
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: 240B on August 19, 2022, 02:45:19 am
@240B

an bendwiawnlot to you,too,bubba!
[/quote
@sneakypete
I do not like you. But when you said "the future is theoretical" ... man, that really hit home with me.
That means you really know, that is how it was. Never expected that I would live. Here we go ... to who knows where?
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Kamaji on August 19, 2022, 01:06:24 pm
How Russia is harnessing cyber warfare in its conflict with Ukraine: State-sponsored attackers are using malware to steal data, spy on citizens and attack national infrastructure, study reveals

By JONATHAN CHADWICK FOR MAILONLINE
18 August 2022

A new report shows that Ukraine is fighting a battle with Russia in cyber space, as well as a physical war.

Russia has been using 'cyber warfare' on Ukraine since the physical invasion started in late February, says Chicago-based security firm Trustwave. 

Malware has been used against organisations in Ukraine either to destroy or gain control over their online systems and 'damage targets far behind the frontlines'.

Malware – a catch-all term for any type of malicious software – has been used to steal data, spy on citizens and attack national infrastructure.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-11123525/How-Russia-harnessing-cyber-warfare-conflict-Ukraine.html
Title: Re: Ukraine 2
Post by: Hoodat on August 19, 2022, 01:16:47 pm
The United States government in Washington gave Ukraine the green light to attack targets on the Crimean peninsula.

The US considers Ukraine’s invasion of Crimea fair game for self-defense.

This had to have come from someone in the State Dept.  There's no way it came from Biden or Austin.