The article says EV sales are growing, but considering Hertz is divesting itself of large numbers of EVs, some locally, have been dismal failures (a pizza franchise was issued two by corporate, neither made it through the second month of winter before becoming unserviceable), and virtually no one at this latitude is buying them, I am curious who and where this growth is taking place.There are so many EV's here in SoCal you would think they cost half the price of a ICE car. I went out briefly today and someone with a brand new Tesla Cybertruck drove by, it loos like a DeLorean and Pontiac Aztec had a drug induced orgy resulting in an absolutely FUGLY offspring :3:
My guess would be in urban centers in warm climates. I must also keep in mind that just a couple of fleet contracts could alter the landscape there, too.
Ford began the year by cutting production of the F-150 Lightning electric pickup after weaker-than-expected electric vehicle sales growth.
There are so many EV's here in SoCal you would think they cost half the price of a ICE car. I went out briefly today and someone with a brand new Tesla Cybertruck drove by, it loos like a DeLorean and Pontiac Aztec had a drug induced orgy resulting in an absolutely FUGLY offspring :3:SoCal is a favorable environment for the physical operation of EVs. Add in virtue signalling, and I can see why there are a lot of them there.
Ford lost $132,000 on every electric vehicle it sold in the first quarter
The article says EV sales are growing, but considering Hertz is divesting itself of large numbers of EVs, some locally, have been dismal failures (a pizza franchise was issued two by corporate, neither made it through the second month of winter before becoming unserviceable), and virtually no one at this latitude is buying them, I am curious who and where this growth is taking place.
My guess would be in urban centers in warm climates. I must also keep in mind that just a couple of fleet contracts could alter the landscape there, too.
EV's are not going anywhere and will take over. I drove a Tesla and it was an incredible drive. How many people after buying a battery powered drill still use their plug in drill. Not many. I went to my local Pilot truck stop this morning to get gas and they are putting in 25 ev chargers.
Ford Lightenings was a mistake to begin with but do not blame EV's over them.
Where will all that electricity come from?Especially in light of Biden's latest anti-coal move.
Where will all that electricity come from?
Maybe I'm missing something, but the last time I looked, there hasn't been a newly permitted full-size power plant authorized in decades, and certainly not even a tiny percentage of the approximately 700 new full-size nuclear plants needed to provide the electricity needed to replace just half of the current U.S. vehicle fleet with EVs.
The mad rush for EVs will simply mean that, like private jets, ground transportation will be the purview of the wealthy and government officials - just as it was in the Soviet Union and every other leftist "paradise".
Especially in light of Biden's latest anti-coal move.
Especially in light of Biden's latest anti-coal move.
Coal is an antiquated, dirty source. Natural gas is cheaper and cleaner burning and easier to transport. Your state of WVa (if you are a WVA mountaineer) is now one of the largest NG suppliers in the country and power plants are moving towards NG.I'm well aware of gas operations in WV. I hear them at night. There are wells within just a few miles of our home. That said, natural gas is not enough without coal, and solar/wind will never make up for coal.
NG jobs in Wva has taken over coal jobs years ago.
Natural gas has killed the coal jobs in WVa, not any President.
I'm well aware of gas operations in WV. I hear them at night. There are wells within just a few miles of our home. That said, natural gas is not enough without coal, and solar/wind will never make up for coal.
EV's are not going anywhere and will take over. I drove a Tesla and it was an incredible drive. How many people after buying a battery powered drill still use their plug in drill. Not many. I went to my local Pilot truck stop this morning to get gas and they are putting in 25 ev chargers.
Ford Lightenings was a mistake to begin with but do not blame EV's over them.
You've bought off onto this silliness? Did you drive your Tesla on a northern Interstate in a blizzard and -10?
In my part of Texas, I know "NO One" who will even remotely consider buying these POS.
China is patenting a battery right now that is not affected by heat or cold-or affected very little.
Yeah your circle of friends say they will not buy one but once they drive one and the kinks get worked out they will and prices for ev's are coming don, range is going up every year.
My dad built spec homes. He remembers when air nailers first came out. All the construction guys said they would never replace the hammer, too bulky, dragging along an air hose etc.
China is patenting a battery right now that is not affected by heat or cold-or affected very little.
Yeah your circle of friends say they will not buy one but once they drive one and the kinks get worked out they will and prices for ev's are coming don, range is going up every year.
My dad built spec homes. He remembers when air nailers first came out. All the construction guys said they would never replace the hammer, too bulky, dragging along an air hose etc.
The new Black & Decker plant in KY is powered 100% by solar
China is patenting a battery right now that is not affected by heat or cold-or affected very little.
My dad built spec homes. He remembers when air nailers first came out. All the construction guys said they would never replace the hammer, too bulky, dragging along an air hose etc.
Whom did they steal that technology from? And how were they able to bypass the laws of physics? Besides, they already have the best battery they could possibly have. It is lightweight and doesn't require specialty metals. It is called a 'hydrogen tank'.
Batteries did not just come out. They've been around for almost two centuries.
EV's are not going anywhere and will take over. I drove a Tesla and it was an incredible drive. How many people after buying a battery powered drill still use their plug in drill. Not many. I went to my local Pilot truck stop this morning to get gas and they are putting in 25 ev chargers.Not sure what climate you live in, but up at 48 degrees North, that just isn't going to happen. We'll keep the old ICE vehicles running until you get an EV that has at least 8" ground clearance, 4WD, the ability to carry a ton or better over 300 miles bucking snowdrifts while keeping the cabin 90 degrees or more warmer than the outside air (just at 50-60 degrees F inside), and has enough additional reserve to heat the cabin for 12 hours in case something should go wrong.
Ford Lightenings was a mistake to begin with but do not blame EV's over them.
Does that plant have only one shift? Do they shut down from 5 pm to 9 am?
There are lots of battery claims. They're a dime a dozen... They also claim you can charge it in 6 minutes. With what? To charge a 100 kWh battery in 6 minutes takes a million watts... Or over 4,000 amps at 240 V... And that's with 100% efficiency (no losses)...
Toyota claims their 2026 ev's can charge in 10 minutes.
Battery technology is changing so rapidly companies cannot keep up
Not sure what climate you live in, but up at 48 degrees North, that just isn't going to happen. We'll keep the old ICE vehicles running until you get an EV that has at least 8" ground clearance, 4WD, the ability to carry a ton or better over 300 miles bucking snowdrifts while keeping the cabin 90 degrees or more warmer than the outside air (just at 50-60 degrees F inside), and has enough additional reserve to heat the cabin for 12 hours in case something should go wrong.
We don't buy vehicles for summertime play, but for the worst conditions we might face, and it IS a matter of life and death.
To charge a 100 kWh battery in 6 minutes takes a million watts... Or over 4,000 amps at 240 V... And that's with 100% efficiency (no losses)...
They have battery backup I believe.
Fifteen acres of solar panels to power that plant. Still not sure how they power it at night, but it would take a gargantuan amount of batteries to source 480 VAC for basic plant operation. I suspect they have worked out a tradeoff with normal power generation where they supply excess power to the grid during the day and recover that power back at night. Which means that even though they can claim to net zero, they are still dependent on nighttime power generation from other sources.
And fifteen acres of land? That's a heck of an impact on nature. Fifteen acres no longer available for anything else, including CO2 removal by a typical forest.
(https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/black-decker-solar-project-500x325.jpg)
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2023/05/solar-project-powers-all-of-black-deckers-kentucky-factory/
Fifteen acres of solar panels to power that plant. Still not sure how they power it at night, but it would take a gargantuan amount of batteries to source 480 VAC for basic plant operation. I suspect they have worked out a tradeoff with normal power generation where they supply excess power to the grid during the day and recover that power back at night. Which means that even though they can claim to net zero, they are still dependent on nighttime power generation from other sources.Fifteen acres that could be used to grow food. What an absolute waste of land and those promoting going green are tying to convince people that they're saving the planet. What a crock.
And fifteen acres of land? That's a heck of an impact on nature. Fifteen acres no longer available for anything else, including CO2 removal by a typical forest.
(https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/black-decker-solar-project-500x325.jpg)
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2023/05/solar-project-powers-all-of-black-deckers-kentucky-factory/
SoCal is a favorable environment for the physical operation of EVs. Add in virtue signalling, and I can see why there are a lot of them there.
Where I live in North Dakota, It is hard to think of a much more hostile environment to the physical operation of an EV. Cold, with -30 not unusual in winter, frequent high winds, snow, etc. You can't just drive, you have to defrost the windows and heat the cabin, too.
It is common for larger towns to be 100-130 miles apart, and trips to medical specialists commonly mean a 250 mile trip--one way, bad enough when you are not well in an ICE powered vehicle, I can't imagine waiting on the vehicle to charge, too.
In summer, with our continental climate, we hit the triple digits, too. Annual temperature range can easily be 130 degrees, and I have seen it near 170.
For those who wonder why I am not a supporter of EVs and the gasoline powered vehicle 'phase out', it is that sooner or later, with the way things are going, Some bloody twit (or an assemblage thereof) is going to try to take my vehicles away, one way or another, claiming that MY vehicle is causing global warming, which is supposed the "climate change" they are bandying about.
I spent my career locating and identifying a reliable, proven (for over 100 years) motor fuel source. Now people from elsewhere, often two thousand miles away, want to dictate what I can or cannot use from places where the weather here is simply unimaginable.
If you can grow citrus trees, pecans, avocados, or even Magnolias, maybe an EV will work for you.
Those species will freeze here, dead in the first winter. EVs don't work well here.
Sales and registrations prove this. From: https://www.badgerinstitute.org/numbers/electric-vehicles-as-a-percentage-of-all-registered-vehicles/ (https://www.badgerinstitute.org/numbers/electric-vehicles-as-a-percentage-of-all-registered-vehicles/)
(https://e74sq7k37a8.exactdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Electric-vehicles-as-percentage-of-registered-vehicles-768x516.jpg?strip=all&lossy=1&ssl=1)
Aside from a very few folks, (likely city dwellers who use them in town, and a few owned by a pizza franchise--two of which died this winter), we just aren't willing to bet our lives on the technology. We know what works.
177 new natural gas power plants are being built right now across the country. 2 are going up near me. One is already online. Georgis just added a new reactor and it will supply all their needs.
US factories are going solar. The new Black & Decker plant in KY is powered 100% by solar and they are selling off the excess.
:silly:
I did say at least 700 full-size nuclear plants, didn't I? 177 natural gas plants isn't going to cut it.
And neither will solar, or any other falsely-labeled "renewable".
WADR, why are you people so f**king abysmally stupid? Serious question.
I just. gave a few examples. Home Depot is going to solar all or most of their stores by 2035. Chase bank in Columbus put solar over their parking lot and it supplies 90% of their needs. This is a regional office with 10,000 employees. The grid will be fine. The free market will prevail. Toll Brothers said over 30% of their new private home construction is installing solar d that figure is growing each year.
I was at my local power equipment dealer today. He said in 5 years all the zero turns and mowers sold will be electric. Currently, 75% of their trimmers, leaf blowers, chainsaw s etc sales are electric. No one wants to deal with gas and oil anymore.
Every company is coming out with commercial use electric zero turns.
If you drive up Rt 23 out of Columbu Oh into Michigan every other factory is installing solar.
This anti EV & renewables thing with conservatives is truly the most ignorant stance of all time.
I just. gave a few examples. Home Depot is going to solar all or most of their stores by 2035. Chase bank in Columbus put solar over their parking lot and it supplies 90% of their needs. This is a regional office with 10,000 employees. The grid will be fine. The free market will prevail. Toll Brothers said over 30% of their new private home construction is installing solar d that figure is growing each year.
I was at my local power equipment dealer today. He said in 5 years all the zero turns and mowers sold will be electric. Currently, 75% of their trimmers, leaf blowers, chainsaw s etc sales are electric. No one wants to deal with gas and oil anymore.
Every company is coming out with commercial use electric zero turns.
If you drive up Rt 23 out of Columbu Oh into Michigan every other factory is installing solar.
This anti EV & renewables thing with conservatives is truly the most ignorant stance of all time.
Subsidies is why so many are doing it. Everyone else is paying for it.
Have any engineers as friends? Go talk to one.
You never addressed charging a 100 kWh battery in 6 minutes. It literally takes over a million watts to do. It would take 21 houses with modern 200 amp power panels at full capacity all at the same time to do it.
I just. gave a few examples. Home Depot is going to solar all or most of their stores by 2035. Chase bank in Columbus put solar over their parking lot and it supplies 90% of their needs. This is a regional office with 10,000 employees. The grid will be fine. The free market will prevail. Toll Brothers said over 30% of their new private home construction is installing solar d that figure is growing each year.
I was at my local power equipment dealer today. He said in 5 years all the zero turns and mowers sold will be electric. Currently, 75% of their trimmers, leaf blowers, chainsaw s etc sales are electric. No one wants to deal with gas and oil anymore.
Every company is coming out with commercial use electric zero turns.
If you drive up Rt 23 out of Columbu Oh into Michigan every other factory is installing solar.
This anti EV & renewables thing with conservatives is truly the most ignorant stance of all time.
EV's are not going anywhere and will take over. I drove a Tesla and it was an incredible drive. How many people after buying a battery powered drill still use their plug in drill. Not many. I went to my local Pilot truck stop this morning to get gas and they are putting in 25 ev chargers.
Ford Lightenings was a mistake to begin with but do not blame EV's over them.
My BIL is a retired 3 tar general and is now VP of a major defense contactor. All future military vehicles. is going EV because the advantages are superior over diesel on the battlefield. He cannot tell me what they are working on but he did say current batteries are 3rd generations and they are working on 12 the generation batteries.
He did say they are perfecting batteries that can be changed out on the battlefield in 2 minutes. The zero turn commercial grade mowers a I saw on youtube are like this. Individual batteries with handles that pull out and replaced in seconds.
He was at one of the largest defense trade shows in the world in Qatar. Every defense contractor is moving forward with EV's.
I never did say this would happen overnight. ..but ev's are here to stay.
Again if you drove one you would see why. The ride/response etc is incredible.
177 new natural gas power plants are being built right now across the country. 2 are going up near me. One is already online. Georgis just added a new reactor and it will supply all their needs.
US factories are going solar. The new Black & Decker plant in KY is powered 100% by solar and they are selling off the excess.
And how are commercial cutters going to charge those machines constantly on a run over the whole day? Generator now, on their trailers? LOL. tell customers they need to plug in some? Head back to base and recharge and switch machines?
So the short answer is you have no idea regarding the question I asked you. It will just be magic that charges those batteries in 6 minutes...
And it just might be that all those defense contractors see dollar bills in replacing massive amounts of fully functional infrastructure regardless of the pros and cons. The military has become very politicized and is chasing goals that have little to do with actually fighting and winning wars.
First off, you’re comparing 2 small items to each other.
2nd, both are “electric”.
3rd, people will use corded if it’s easy access. Batteries for these are now quite good, but they do require charging and lose power to handle those torques. Plus, batteries are still big and cause a handling difficulty such as balance by their bulk.
Don’t scoff. I made complaints like this about CDs 20 years ago and people looked at me funny like how could I say that? Where are CDs now? Those same people are scoffing at how old fashioned they are with my same critiques.
Not that I expect battery power tools to go away, but they are legitimate complaints - except batteries get better so long-term usage is possible without balance problems.
I thought natural gas was now a bugaboo also?
You know, we’re not allowed to have natural gas stoves and heating anymore?
Have the EnviroMentals decided all that natural gas must be only for these plants?
The commercial grade zero turns run 6-8 hours on a charge with regular grass and 3-4 hours with tall grass 10"+ or higher. The lawn care service company carries extra batteries that pull out in seconds just like your handheld batteries but bigger. There is a you tube video of a Gravely or Simplicity battery powered zero turn that cut a 3 acre lawn with grass 2 feet high. The commercial lawn car owners was super impressed.
If you read the independent you tube videos of people with lawn care co;s using battery powered zero turns they are all very impressed.
Like the guy told me today in 5 years all zero turns will be battery powered. No hydraulics to worry about, no belts or hoses to break or wear out. no oil changes etc. No maintenance. No noise or vibration. Lower center of gravity so they are not as tip prone.
Don't take my word for it read the reviews on youtube.
Check out the new John Deere electric commercial grade zero turns and others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAgUD20TlFg
Here in Arizona I've seen ZERO electric yard keeping tools used by the professional landscapers. And they are all over the place. They're all gas powered and for good reason. They are much lighter and more powerful while taking little time to refuel.
The only way they get professionals to use electric is by government outlawing the alternative. Hardly a sales pitch on why they are superior...
You spend too much time on FR with those low IQ idiots. Natural gas production, drilling, fracking under biden is at record levels in 2023 and 2024 is going to be even greater. Gas stoves will never be outlawed and natural gas will be used for the next 100 years. Coalmine jobs in W.Va under trump declined every year and have shot back up under biden. Bet you won't see that at FR
Biden may tell the greenies he is going to outlaw fossil fuels but he is winking at the fossil fuel industry at the same time. Large co;s control the agenda in this country not the politcians.
Commercial grade line has only been very recently introduced. Not going to change overnight. Stihl said in press releases all commercial with be battery powered in future years due to ease of use.
Again watch youtube videos of real lawn care co's trying lout the battery stuff. Nearly all are very impressed.
No, mayors and all kinds of Dem politicians state they want to stop NG.
20 years ago, heck 5, nobody talked about trannies. Now it’s all the rage and in our faces. Tell me again how they won’t make this happen?
You spend too much time on FR with those low IQ idiots. Natural gas production, drilling, fracking under biden is at record levels in 2023 and 2024 is going to be even greater. Gas stoves will never be outlawed and natural gas will be used for the next 100 years. Coalmine jobs in W.Va under trump declined every year and have shot back up under biden. Bet you won't see that at FR
Biden may tell the greenies he is going to outlaw fossil fuels but he is winking at the fossil fuel industry at the same time. Large co;s control the agenda in this country not the politcians.
Multiple cities have banned natural gas with more jumping on the bandwagon. Don't have to be with low IQ people to know that.
I'm not against electric things. I am against government shoving it down everyone's throats by force of law. I'm also against government subsidizing the wealthy with new electric toys while everyone else had to pay for it.
Don't tell the f**king idiot. He'll tell you it's all a conspiracy between Trump and "big business".
Stop the insults please...
I apologize. Will stop it.
That wasn't meant for you....
I do research from all sides and talk with industry heads. The amount of misinformation regarding EV's/solar in conservative sites is frightening.
Someone is always posting blogs from the Heartland Inst. on FR bashing ev's and renewables.
You do know Heartland waw started by Phillip Morris as a lobbying group to combat the anti tobacco agenda in the 80's? They received 875k from Exxon. I pick apart their blogs all the time.
If you only get your info from rw sites you will become ignorant and stupid. SRS, you need to read sources from the left, middle and right to be informed. Michell Malkin said it best. . She said 70% of the people out there with blogs and such (Bongino/Carlson) are liberals or moderates in real life but making money of gullible people is a huge money maker.
But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.
I do research from all sides and talk with industry heads. The amount of misinformation regarding EV's/solar in conservative sites is frightening.
Someone is always posting blogs from the Heartland Inst. on FR bashing ev's and renewables.
You do know Heartland waw started by Phillip Morris as a lobbying group to combat the anti tobacco agenda in the 80's? They received 875k from Exxon. I pick apart their blogs all the time.
If you only get your info from rw sites you will become ignorant and stupid. SRS, you need to read sources from the left, middle and right to be informed. Michell Malkin said it best. . She said 70% of the people out there with blogs and such (Bongino/Carlson) are liberals or moderates in real life but making money of gullible people is a huge money maker.
But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.
You do know Heartland waw started by Phillip Morris as a lobbying group to combat the anti tobacco agenda in the 80's? They received 875k from Exxon
Fifteen acres that could be used to grow food. What an absolute waste of land and those promoting going green are tying to convince people that they're saving the planet. What a crock.
I'm not against electric things. I am against government shoving it down everyone's throats by force of law. I'm also against government subsidizing the wealthy with new electric toys while everyone else had to pay for it.
Industry is for electrical products because they are cheaper to make. Head of GM said the typical EV uses a 1/3 of labor and 1/2 the parts of a gas vehicle. Follow the money as Rush always aid. It's all about maximizing profit and minimizing cost.
Then recent strikes was mainly about EV's because the unions saw EV's would eliminate much of their jobs,
My BIL is a retired 3 tar general and is now VP of a major defense contactor. All future military vehicles. is going EV because the advantages are superior over diesel on the battlefield.
Industry is for electrical products because they are cheaper to make. Head of GM said the typical EV uses a 1/3 of labor and 1/2 the parts of a gas vehicle. Follow the money as Rush always said.
2 million acres are lost every year in the US to new home construction and for building industrial buildings. 15 acres is nothing and B&D is selling back excess power and making $400k per year These companies are doing this not for virtue signaling but it makes economic sense. The B&D plant was built on farmland itself. The plant that makes products there made them in China. Do you want the jobs or not?
If you feel so bad about farmland being used up, year down your home that was most likely farmland at one time and plant corn on your lot
Coalmine jobs in W.Va under trump declined every year and have shot back up under biden.
Leach fields in just one lithium mine:
I'm not against electric things. I am against government shoving it down everyone's throats by force of law. I'm also against government subsidizing the wealthy with new electric toys while everyone else had to pay for it.
But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.
Every US industry is subsidized by the US govt including agriculture and big oil.
Then there's the cobalt. An EV typically needs 6 to 12 kg of the stuff - source: https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/what-is-cobalt-used-for-in-elecrtic-cars#gref
And here's how all that cobalt is mined:
Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that. But then, I'm not a liberal.
Leach fields in just one lithium mine:
As the accompanying article states: "Although pretty from a distance, lithium mines are environmentally damaging and use a lot water and energy."
But hey, it's not coming out of a tailpipe on the EV, so it must be "environmentally friendly".
"F**king idiot" is a perfectly sober sobriquet for the sort that believes that nonsense.
And here's how all that cobalt is mined:
Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that. But then, I'm not a liberal.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
The largest Ev solid state battery plant in the world was just built in Massachusetts
This is why you need to do research from all sources and not just wingnut sites that would find fault even if biden told every family it was a new law to buy an AR-15 and he is going to eliminate all federal IRS taxes.
That would be Factorial Energy. They still use lithium in their solid state batteries.
Some but isn't the lithium a metal anode instead of Gell Lithium -the type that catches fire in regular lithium batteries?
The point made was that lithium mining is both highly exploitive of third world workers and also environmentally damaging. And solid state batteries do nothing to reduce that.
Under biden
https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/us-thermal-coal-exports-hit-5-year-highs-top-5-billion-2023-2024-02-01/
I did research just before posting that. https://minesafety.wv.gov/historical-statistical-data/production-of-coal-and-coke-1863-2013/
Now, lets examine your site. First this chart:
A typical example of non-rational persuasion. Notice the downward trend, purposed to give visual reinforcement to the claim made. Except that downward trend happened under Obama, not Trump. Once Trump took over, coal jobs stabilized up until Covid when everyone was forced out of work. And notice also that this chart is nationwide, and not specific to West Virginia which was your original claim. So maybe you should give your left wing sites a bit more scrutiny before pushing such nonsensical propaganda.
Lithium is not produced in third world countries. Australia and Chile produce 76% of the world daily needs and the rest is from Argentina, Bolivia, China and Canada.
The new SS batteries use a very small amount of lithium.
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-worlds-largest-lithium-producers/
The ev indsutry changes and improves every year
What a relief. As long as it is Chile and Bolivia getting hit with the environmental impact, everything must be OK. But I digress. Let's assume for a moment that your way is economically superior. Then why can't you do it without subsidies? Why do you force working people to pay for things (at the point of a gun) that only benefit the wealthy?
Ha ha I live in a part of the country where hundreds of thousands of acres of was strip mined for coal leaving the ground worthless even after reclaiming. can't build on the soft ground for 40 years or your house will sink into the ground. Ruined wells for good. Longwall mining under homes -house drops 3 feet on one end-that is were they remove the coal pillars and the ground above drops down 3-5 feet.
Again, as long as other countries are subsidizing their industries if we do not our companies will be at a huge disadvantage.
The ag subsidies do not benefit only the wealthy. Ag subsidies keep food prices stable (not looking at inflation)
Without ag subsidies if one year there was a bumper crop of say corn, the next year farmers would not plant that crop because of the low price leading to a shortage the third year. One year Milk would be $5 the next year 25 cents. Food would be a roller coaster ride.
The Intel Plant in Columbus Ohio will be 10-14k jobs when done paying on average $135k per year. Almpost all subsidized under the chips act.
I will assume you are from Kentucky. I grew up in a neighboring coal state.
I could not disagree more. Government needs to stay the hell out instead of doing its usual failure at picking winners and losers.
I am more interested in the number of people who are harmed by ag subsidies.
How did those Solyndra subsidies turn out? And when did Intel become so broke that they needed the government to build a plant for them? Intel can afford their own plant. And any plant requiring subsidies from the government isn't really viable to begin with. Check back in five years and we'll see if that plant still has 10-14k jobs paying $135k. I will bet you dollars to donuts that they will not. In fact, I would be surprised if that plant is even open five years from now.
When water intrusion and salt don't corrode batteries or cause them to catch fire perhaps they'll be more applicable to a greater part of the country -- until then, EV's are in the long run are futile, not dependable and more costly.I was wondering where all those batteries are going to be stored--in the cold shed, or in the house or attached garage? At least I can run the gas gadgets dry and store them for the winter, and keep the fuel (stabilized) in a non-heated outbuilding that would be relatively cheap to replace.
On Thursday’s broadcast of “CNN News Central,” CNN Chief Climate Correspondent Bill Weir stated that the newly finalized set of rules on coal power plants announced by the Biden administration “essentially signals the end of coal as a power source in the United States.”
Because there currently isn’t any technology capable of complying with all the rules, “And so, it will essentially push most of the remaining 200 or so coal-fired plants out of business.”
Weir said, “Well, John, this is really, really significant. It essentially signals the end of coal as a power source in the United States. Right now, four new rule changes, they also include cutting down on the neurotoxin mercury, which comes out of these power plants, the coal ash that gets spilled into waterways, other wastewater, but the big one is this new rule that would require coal-fired plants to reduce 90% of their planet-cooking pollution. And right now, there’s not really a technology capable of doing that. The industry has never really taken carbon capture and sequestration seriously in the United States. And so, it will essentially push most of the remaining 200 or so coal-fired plants out of business. About a quarter of them are scheduled to retire anyway.”
Your BIL is saying what he needs to say to keep his job and keep those defense dept dollars flowing. But what he says about EVs being superior to diesel is complete bullshit. How far can an M1 go on batteries? And how do you charge it 30 miles into enemy territory with no power lines in sight? A fuel truck can make it there in an hour. Repairing power lines and bringing in a charging platform would take weeks. Not only that, every electric vehicle in an entire battle zone can be taken out with one EMP device.
If your BIL is really saying this, then he should be ashamed of himself for wasting US taxpayer dollars on such a poorly thought out policy. Why not start out with the Air Force first to see how viable electric planes and helicopters work out.
You are another person who hates ev's because conservatives have been told to hate ev's.No. This conservative doesn't "hate EVs," and I doubt anyone at TBR hates inanimate objects like electric vehicles. We also tend to think for ourselves. No one has told me what to think about electric vehicles.
1. Lithium is not mined in Africa. 90% of Teslas lithium comes from Australia.
2. China and Africa just signed a pact to stop using child labor in the cobalt mines.
3. You do know Cobalt is used in every single battery powered item in your house? Computers, tv's, cell phones, ice cars, smoke detectors and your wifes 12" mandingo vibrator powered by 4 d cells.
Personally, I'd rather drive a car that was fueled with petroleum products derived from a mine with a much smaller environmental footprint than a lithium mine, and that wasn't built with the fruits of child slave labor - African child slave labor, at that. But then, I'm not a liberal.
Then there's the cobalt. An EV typically needs 6 to 12 kg of the stuff - source: https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/what-is-cobalt-used-for-in-elecrtic-cars#gref
So @banddag do you drive an EV?I am seriously looking at the 2025/2026 Toyota EV's. 600 mile range and 10 minute charging according to Toyota.
And if not why?
I am seriously looking at the 2025/2026 Toyota EV's. 600 mile range and 10 minute charging according to Toyota.
So, the short answer is you don't drive one...
I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.
I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.
No. This conservative doesn't "hate EVs," and I doubt anyone at TBR hates inanimate objects like electric vehicles. We also tend to think for ourselves. No one has told me what to think about electric vehicles.
This conservative knows that an EV is not practical for where I live or my needs. This conservative doesn't want the government to take away my gasoline-powered vehicle and force me either to stay home, walk 7 miles to the closest grocery store, or buy an extremely expensive and inefficient vehicle that is inappropriate for my climate and terrain.
Tell us truthfully....... You beleive the climate change scam?
I was tired and read your post wrong and I was on my phone wich makes the whole screen hard to see.
As I mentioned cobalt is used in every single electronic item in your house-the fruits of child slave labor. If you feel so guilty about child labor in Africa throw away your phone and your computer, TV, smoke detectors, microwave ovens, your ice car, motorcycle, boat. Anything painted blue or printed in blue in your house is from cobalt.
The amount of cobalt used in EV's is minuscule to the amount used in all the electronic goods and industry out there.
I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.
I was tired and read your post wrong and I was on my phone wich makes the whole screen hard to see.
As I mentioned cobalt is used in every single electronic item in your house-the fruits of child slave labor. If you feel so guilty about child labor in Africa throw away your phone and your computer, TV, smoke detectors, microwave ovens, your ice car, motorcycle, boat. Anything painted blue or printed in blue in your house is from cobalt.
The amount of cobalt used in EV's is minuscule to the amount used in all the electronic goods and industry out there.
Your bigger handicap is your liberalism, i.e., your left-wing fascist tendencies.
I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.
You are another person who hates ev's because conservatives have been told to hate ev's.
2. China and Africa just signed a pact to stop using child labor in the cobalt mines.
I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
But ok, tell the ceo of Stihl who said the people prefer electric and the industry is not going that way that he is wrong.
I am seriously looking at the 2025/2026 Toyota EV's. 600 mile range and 10 minute charging according to Toyota.
Not if they're cutting trees down, they don't.
I'm starting to see electric chain saws carried in UTVs and on 4wheelers because they are light. But you ain't gonna get through a proper tree felled across the road with that... which is why there are still 40/50 cc saws with a 2ft bar in the back of every pickup that goes up in the bush. And an actual sawyer would laugh in your face.
I am seriously looking at the 2025/2026 Toyota EV's. 600 mile range and 10 minute charging according to Toyota.
I drove a Tesla and it gives a tremendous ride/torque/response, quietness. Once you drive one you will understand why they will take over ICE cars
SO yes I am looking at the new Toyota EV's when they come out later this year or early next.
The amount of cobalt used in EV's is minuscule to the amount used in all the electronic goods and industry out there.
Nah. You've never been in a quarter mile car or a drag rail, have you? And this coming from a guy who actually worked on an electric mini-drag rail, back in the day.
And I am perfectly happy to admit the superior torque that comes from an electric motor. That ain't the only consideration.
And I hope you have the money... because that EV will be worth nothing in a few years when the battery goes out of it.
LOL! You mean like a big-screen projection TV? Or a Commodore 64 computer? Or an IBM 087 sorter? Or a rotary wall telephone with a hand-crank?
No, I mean Racing. Even hopping lights and Outlaw 1/4 mile. The REAL THING, even on the street.
Didn't we just read that Musk has a concept vehicle that can go 0-60 in 1 second? :shrug:
I'm not an advocate of today's EVs...unless you live in a tropical climate and use it expressly as an errand vehicle around town. happy77
That's about 2.735 Gs... So if you weigh 200 lbs, you'd be pressed back into the seat with a force of about 550 lbs...
Didn't we just read that Musk has a concept vehicle that can go 0-60 in 1 second? :shrug:
I'm not an advocate of today's EVs...unless you live in a tropical climate and use it expressly as an errand vehicle around town. happy77
Toyota offers no such range for 2025'2026. Perhaps you should go back and reread that 2023 article that happened to be the first one that popped up in your Google search. Oh, and those cars will use lithium-ion batteries. Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting. Because your failure to do so makes you come across as a complete fool.
We read a lot of things.
Here's the bar: Outrun a police chopper and get away with it. That's what a hellcat can do, slammed to the wood.
I don't give a single sh*t about anything but merit. Them that can brag, let em.
When it's real -REALLY real - People will flock to it without subsidy, just like the construction industry and mechanical industry moved to batt tools. No bullshit. No hype. They're better day-to-day.
But even in that, .when the chips are all down and the batt driven tool won't do, Out comes old-school pneumatics or corded tools to kick their ass.
The Tesla Roadster already does 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. The next generation one is supposed to be 1.1 seconds. It probably can't do it many times before requiring a recharge...
Toyota offers no such range for 2025'2026. Perhaps you should go back and reread that 2023 article that happened to be the first one that popped up in your Google search. Oh, and those cars will use lithium-ion batteries. Maybe you should get your facts straight before posting. Because your failure to do so makes you come across as a complete fool.
You do realize that "Africa" is a continent, not a country, right? On second thought, maybe you don't.
because that EV will be worth nothing in a few years when the battery goes out of it.
The Tesla Roadster already does 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. The next generation one is supposed to be 1.1 seconds. It probably can't do it many times before requiring a recharge...
For example, the cobalt used in my iPhone is predominantly from recycled sources. The same cannot be said for your EV.
Only half of Teslas now use cobalt. The EV industry is getting away from Lithium and cobalt and or only using minimum amounts through innovation.
Numerous companies such as Green Bean battery company are popping up to rehab old batteries and resell them for a 1/4 of the cost of new. The free market is taking care of the battery problems.
I believe this is how Interstate battery company was started-rehabbing used batteries but it's been a while.
ICEs didn't require any subsidies to effectively make horse-and-buggy obsolete within years, despite the fact that prior to the introduction of the Ford Model T there were few paved roads and few gas stations.
We live in a global economy [...]
Same argument from the isolationist today. "Our Founding fathers said to keep out of foreign entanglements" Well George and crew did not have to deal with intercontinental ballistic missiles, cyber attacks from 3500 miles away from rogue nations.
Hail cripples massive solar farm
(https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hailstorm-destroys-massive-solar-farm-sparking-fears-of-chemical-contamination)
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2024/03/1862/1046/Fighting-Jays-damage.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
Who is the idiot that didn't foresee that coming?
The same strain of idiot that once used crossties made of willow for railroad construction. The kind of idiot that will take "free" government money while the taking is good!
Hail cripples massive solar farm
(https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hailstorm-destroys-massive-solar-farm-sparking-fears-of-chemical-contamination)
(https://a57.foxnews.com/static.foxnews.com/foxnews.com/content/uploads/2024/03/1862/1046/Fighting-Jays-damage.jpg?ve=1&tl=1)
I never said tanks or at least should have been more specific. I am talking about support vehicles and such and very light armor vehicles such as humvees.
1. EV's give off no or minimal sound, no or very little heat signature like a diesel.
2. In Gulf War 1 each soldier had the equivalant of 45 lbs of electronic gear. Currently each soldier has the equivalent of 2000 lbs of electronic gear. EV's can supply this electric need w/o having to bring up generators and such
3. Battery range is going up every year. Toyota said in a presss release their 2026 ev's will have a 600 mile range.
4. As I mentioned before the military is working on batteries that can be changed out in the field due to damage or recharging with no tools in two minutes in less.
5. Every single military contractors from every country at the Qatar show had military ev;s including China in their lineup.
6. You said every ev military vehicle can be taken out with an emp. How do you know this? You are speaking out of your arse.
You know jack crap what they are working on, what their capabilities are but yet you are an armchair general. What I posted above is the minimal info my bil would give me. You are another person who hates ev's because conservatives have been told to hate ev's.
We live in a global economy and US companies will move in a heartbeat to another country with cheaper labor. China and S. Korea and now Vietnam heavily subsidizes their EV industry. Way more than what we do. If we do not subsidize our home grown EV industry these countries will become the leaders and we will have to buy the technology and products from them.We have enough oil to be self sufficient. We have hundreds of years of coal reserves. WHat we are doing is creating an artificial shortage of electricity by increasing demand from sectors which used little. ICE engines work in all climates. They are more efficient with lower emissions than ever. Why would we have to buy any EVs from anyone?
Same argument from the isolationist today. "Our Founding fathers said to keep out of foreign entanglements" Well George and crew did not have to deal with intercontinental ballistic missiles, cyber attacks from 3500 miles away from rogue nations.
We have enough oil to be self sufficient. We have hundreds of years of coal reserves. WHat we are doing is creating an artificial shortage of electricity by increasing demand from sectors which used little. ICE engines work in all climates. They are more efficient with lower emissions than ever. Why would we have to buy any EVs from anyone?Why? For the greater good...the greater good of the new world order to better control the movements of us serfs. What no one has talked about is how absolutely useless EV's are in the case of a natural disaster that destroys the transmission of electricity. Even here in EV friendly Californication when the wildfires were raging and power was cut in those areas EV's were pretty useless and if you had to depend on one to escape the flames :shrug: And where do all the apartment dwellers charge their EV's if everyone is forced into EV's? There has been talk about where the massive increase of electricity needed will come from, but how about how will it be distributed on a already over taxed grid? No, I think I'll wait until (https://i.imgur.com/zJMKsJY.jpg?1) is available, or there is another solution to extending the range of EV's (https://i.imgur.com/bWzQkuA.jpg?1) though all those EV's towing their ICE generators around will have a negative impact on traffic and parking :pondering:
@banddag
Can you help me understand your advocacy for federal mandates and subsidies for EV battery manufacturers when hydrogen tanks used to store electricity are significantly lighter, cheaper, more economical, and have far less environmental impact than batteries?
Still waiting for your response, @banddag
I told you up thread. Car co's secretly want EV's because they take only 1/3 of the labor and 1/2 the parts to build.
Fact is, automakers are pulling back in the EV market and pouring more into hybrids and low emission ICE engines. While this is dismaying to the Tesla nerds and their not-as-cool other EV brand loyalists, the truth is the average consumer doesn’t want an EV, and that isn't gonna change anytime soon.
Right... They are so economical that you have to subsidize them to get people to buy them... Essentially the poor subsidizing the wealthy for their new toy...
Logic isn't your strong point.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.carbuzz.com%2Fgallery-images%2F1600%2F766000%2F200%2F766220.jpg&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=46ea3acafd1c74260ca1f4903cf02353c774151d161f78347f935a715e5c2314&ipo=images)Owning a big ass heavy EV like that is a lot like screwing a fat girl. It's all fun and dandy till your friends see you stranded with her on the side of the road.
Found myself behind a HUMMER EV this morning at a red light in Annapolis, Maryland.
Wondering how often it has to be charged...lugging that weight.
Before embarrassing yourself further do some basic research.
The Ev industry is being subsidized because China, S Korea, Vietnam heavily subsides their own EV industry way more than what we do. If we do not subsidize our own companies , US manufacturers will be left behind in the Ev R&D and manufacturing race.
The same reason we are subsidizing our nations chip industry to the tune of $52 billion. If we do not Intel and such would go to the country that offers them the most subsidies.
The reason why Boeing receives tens of billions of subsidies is because the French govt is heavily subsidizing Airbus. If they did not receive subsidies Boeing would not be able to compete.
In your little world you hate govt giving out money but you do not live in the real world.
Why solar and wind is subsidized. Do you want to buy it for China or our own US companies?
Owning a big ass heavy EV like that is a lot like screwing a fat girl. It's all fun and dandy till your friends see you stranded with her on the side of the road.
@banddag
My question wasn't about EVs. It was about electricity storage for EVs. So again, can you help me understand your advocacy for federal mandates and subsidies for EV battery manufacturers when hydrogen tanks used to store electricity are significantly lighter, cheaper, more economical, and have far less environmental impact than batteries?
You just affirmed @DB 's assertion by justifying it. In other words, logic isn't your strong point. Far from it.
QED
You just affirmed @DB 's assertion by justifying it. In other words, logic isn't your strong point. Far from it.
QED
Prove what I said is wrong with links please. Every industry in the US is subsidized by the US gov't starting with big ag..and big ag should be subsidized.
Hydrogen only half as efficient has Ev's. Toyota looked at the hydrogen model, even created a few but dropped plans. Toyota is coming out with 6 new ev;s in 2026. If hydrogen was viable car co;s would be pushing for them. They are not.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2020/07/04/why-hydrogen-will-never-be-the-future-of-electric-cars/?sh=61a714f412fa
As leftist idiot keep pushing battery subsidies in the US, Toyota is selling these cars starting at $50K.
They use hydrogen as a battery.
https://www.toyota.com/mirai/
You just affirmed @DB 's assertion by justifying it. In other words, logic isn't your strong point. Far from it.
QED
Oh HELL no.
And now you realize the pitfalls of making it up as you go. It announces to everyone what a complete fool you are.
Care to try again?
Oh HELL no.
Now now, let's think about this one for a moment. What if we subsidize the firearms industry. Everyone in America should be able to have an AR-15 at low cost. So the government should pay out huge subsidies to make that happen. Other countries do it, right? We should take the lead from China and France.
Now now, let's think about this one for a moment. What if we subsidize the firearms industry. Everyone in America should be able to have an AR-15 at low cost. So the government should pay out huge subsidies to make that happen. Other countries do it, right? We should take the lead from China and France.
The main reason we subsidize US ag is to keep prices stable for the consumer. (Besides inflation) if one year there was a bumper crop of corn, price of corn would drop and the next year less farmers would plant corn leading to a shortage in the third year. One year, a corn food product would sell for a $1.00 next year 25 cents and third year $5
It also helps farmers who suffer a bad crop year or two.
Here ya go
In May 2011, the Appellate Body confirmed that the EU and four of its member States (Germany, France, the UK, and Spain) conferred more than $18 billion in subsidized financing to Airbus and had caused Boeing to lose sales of more than 300 aircraft and significant market share throughout the world.Oct 2, 2019
U.S. Wins $7.5 Billion Award in Airbus Subsidies Case - USTR
QED x 2. Again, instead of you disputing the premise that the poor (through their taxes) are subsidizing the wealthy for their "toys", you defend it. Maybe you should take the time to read what others post first before responding to it. Again, your failure to do so makes you out to be a complete fool.
Stupid example. I pointed out what happened to Boeing.
The poor do not pay any taxes.
Now now, let's think about this one for a moment. What if we subsidize the firearms industry. Everyone in America should be able to have an AR-15 at low cost. So the government should pay out huge subsidies to make that happen. Other countries do it, right? We should take the lead from China and France.
Still waiting, @banddag
Why should the US government subsidize the battery industry when hydrogen tanks are lighter, cheaper, lower maintenance, and have further range?
THIS...in Maryland! **nononono*
That's a new one on me. Anyone who works pays taxes. Unless you've shown them a way to cheat on their taxes like yourself.
Conservatives hate ev's because it is a partinsanship issue
Not true. It's a golf cart. Call me up when you have one that can haul a 40 ft gooseneck full of hay bales or a 4 horse trailer up mountains in 30 below weather... Then maybe I won't point and laugh.
It is new technology. No one has said ev's would be viable in all situations right off the bat. I expect one day you will have ev's pickups able to pull loaded trailers to n all conditions
Before embarrassing yourself further do some basic research.
Ah, so you anoint yourself the decider of who gets subsidies and who does not? And as for Boeing, they've lost business because they have grown complacent and lazy. And people are now dying because of it.
You've enbarassed yourself by endorsing and believing the entire climate scam by itself. Don't accuse others after that level of absurdity and hilarity.
I never once mentioned climate change. . I did mention the car companies like ev's because they take a 1/3 of labor and half the parts to make. I said above the car companies can care less about the climate- though they said they do.. ev's are nothing but making maximum profit with minimal cost. Nothing more
So you didn't make such claims in prior threads?
In the meantime, saw an electronic message board on the side of the road...smack-dab in the middle of Annapolis by Saint John's College which read:
"Save a Life...turn in your guns and ammunition!"
THIS...in Maryland! **nononono*
He claims EV's are cheaper to make... Yet they cost more... Most of the car makers are loosing their shirts on them because people won't pay what they cost to produce...
Again, logic isn't his strong suite.
He claims EV's are cheaper to make... Yet they cost more... Most of the car makers are loosing their shirts on them because people won't pay what they cost to produce...
Again, logic isn't his strong suite.
The high cost of ev's is to pay for new factories, battery plants, r&d and such. The fact is ev's have been coming down in price every year
The 70 inch flat screen that sold for $3000 twenty years ago now sells for $400 at Walmart.
New technology and innovations always cost more and then eventually come down in price
You do not know much about business do you?
Actually, I own a high-tech business genius.The TV manufacturing industry was heavily subsidized by the govt mostly to help r&d and for defense projects which filtered down to civilian use. Flat screens came from the defense industry where they were used first. Look it up
I design and manufacture communications equipment that is sold all over the world and have done so for many years. I know something about developing products and manufacturing them.
Regarding flat screen TVs, no one had to subsidize them or mandate them by law. As the technology matured it was happily adopted by consumers without coercion. That's the right way.
Want to try again?
I told you why. US car cos do not see hydrogen as viable versus ev's
I expect one day you will have ev's pickups able to pull loaded trailers to n all conditions
The TV manufacturing industry was heavily subsidized by the govt mostly to help r&d and for defense projects which filtered down
The US govt paid for the movement from analog to digital tvs. Look it up
The US computer industry is heavily subsidized.
Look it up.
I did mention the car companies like ev's because they take a 1/3 of labor and half the parts to make.
With batteries for power? What exactly is this expectation based on? It sure as heck isn't based on reality.
Actually, I own a high-tech business genius.
With batteries for power? What exactly is this expectation based on? It sure as heck isn't based on reality.
Yes. Batteries... And unicorn farts - That's the tricky part.
I never once mentioned climate change. .
Yet you still refuse to address why you support taxpayer subsidies for metal battery companies even though composite hydrogen tanks are considerably lighter, have longer range, cost less, and are better for the environment.
Pepsi is using Tesla semis 500 mile range and can pull 82,000 lbs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Semi
Pepsi is using Tesla semis 500 mile range and can poll 82,000 lbs.
Do you folks ever do any research at all?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Semi
That is how every startup business works. Amazon lost money for years but they had an inctedible business model and innovations and people bought the stock on a hope.
Well, you repeatedly mentioned solar panels and renewable energy upthread.
If not for climate change, why would you mention that at all? That has zip to do with the performance or cost benefits you claim EVs have.
You contradict yourself.
The 70 inch flat screen that sold for $3000 twenty years ago now sells for $400 at Walmart.
And unlike Chinese battery makers, Amazon did it all without US taxpayer subsidies.
So tell me which of these companies is still in business:
Amazon
Solyndra
A123
Abound Solar
Beacon Power
Ener1
Fisker Automotive
Nevada Geothermal Power
Proterra
(Hint: It's the only one in the list that wasn't subsidized by government)
You forgot the "cold" part... Didn't you?
No I said every US industry is subsidized and gave some examples and reasons why they do it. Because again...huh other countries are heavily subsidizing their industries and if we do not our US companies will be at huge disadvantage just as Boeng lost a 300 aircraft deal to airbus because the european countries heavily subsidized airbus.
Where did I say I believed in wind and solar?
And unlike Chinese battery makers, Amazon did it all without US taxpayer subsidies.
No, every US industry is not subsidized. That should be plainly obvious.You are the twister I just gave an example just as airbus/boeing. Show me where I say I want solar and wind. Show me.
And where did I mention wind? Renewables and solar were your words. And there you go twisting things again...
No, every US industry is not subsidized. That should be plainly obvious.Name one major industry that is not subsidized by the federal gov't .
You said flat screen TVs. Flatscreen TVs are and have been made overseas without any US subsidies for a long time.
The computer industry (non military) has only recently been subsidized to move high end chip fabrication out of Taiwan due to the threat of invasion by China as a national security issue.
No, every US industry is not subsidized. That should be plainly obvious.
Pepsi is using Tesla semis 500 mile range and can pull 82,000 lbs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Semi
PepsiCo Vice President Mike O'Connell stated that the Semis can haul Frito-Lay food products for around 425 miles (684 km), but for heavier loads of sodas, the trucks will make shorter trips of around 100 miles (160 km).
You are the twister I just gave an example just as airbus/boeing. Show me where I say I want solar and wind. Show me.
Flat screen R&d is in the US and heavily subsidized
IBM and Dell etc have been getting federal subsidies for years. Dell is up to 700 million. The computer industry has been heavily subsidized since day 1
https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent-totals
Flat screen R&d is in the US and heavily subsidized
IBM and Dell etc have been getting federal subsidies for years. Dell is up to 700 million. The computer industry has been heavily subsidized since day 1
https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent-totals
With batteries for power? What exactly is this expectation based on? It sure as heck isn't based on reality.
This is your post, no?
https://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,528404.msg3007855.html#msg3007855
Yes it sure is. I posted examples of US companies moving towards renewables/ solar and how the public is moving that way also in terms of what they buy.
US companies like B&D , Home Depot are going solar because it makes economic sense. B&D said they are 100% off the grid and actually sell excess energy back to the tune of 400k per year
I told you why 3 times at least. the car co;s do not think hydrogen cars are the future. Toyota came out with one and dropped it.
As leftist idiot keep pushing battery subsidies in the US, Toyota is selling these cars starting at $50K.
They use hydrogen as a battery.
https://www.toyota.com/mirai/
Yes it sure is. I posted examples of US companies moving towards renewables/ solar and how the public is moving that way also in terms of what they buy.
US companies like B&D , Home Depot are going solar because it makes economic sense. B&D said they are 100% off the grid and actually sell excess energy back to the tune of 400k per year
@Hoodat, I assume this wasn't intended for me.
They got massive government subsidies to do it. No economic sense otherwise.
Funny how you haven't answered about the misinformation or was it lies you posted not long ago about subsidies and the companies you listed...
Oh, damn. My bad. I thought that was posted by our in house DU member. My mistake. I grievously and profusely apologize, my brother @DB
B&D said the solar project was privately funded.
Ok I screwed up on Dell and Amazon. The fact is nearly every US the industry is getting subsidies from the US govt but you pick on ev's
I am getting attacked at all sides here so sometimes I make mistakes.
I will not make that mistake again and will slow down
And "B&D said they are 100% off the grid and actually sell excess energy back".
Well, you can't be off grid while at the same time connected to the grid to sell it back.
Just damn...
Oh it's late. They are getting 100% of their power needs from their solar farm. You are nitpicking. You knew exactly what I meant
"Off grid" has a meaning...
It is also highly likely they get power off the grid when the sun isn't shining. Kind of dumb to build an expensive battery farm while connected to the grid unless you expect the grid to go down.
Solar panels still generate power on overcast days.
New solar panels are being developed that generate electricity at night via ambient temperature. I do not know the exact details
Before embarrassing yourself further do some basic research.If all of this is so efficient, clean, cheap and wonderful, why in the Hell are our tax dollars going to keep it afloat? I can see subsidies for basic research, but not the production models.
The Ev industry is being subsidized because China, S Korea, Vietnam heavily subsides their own EV industry way more than what we do. If we do not subsidize our own companies , US manufacturers will be left behind in the Ev R&D and manufacturing race.
The same reason we are subsidizing our nations chip industry to the tune of $52 billion. If we do not Intel and such would go to the country that offers them the most subsidies.
The reason why Boeing receives tens of billions of subsidies is because the French govt is heavily subsidizing Airbus. If they did not receive subsidies Boeing would not be able to compete.
In your little world you hate govt giving out money but you do not live in the real world.
Why solar and wind is subsidized. Do you want to buy it for China or our own US companies?
Solar panels still generate power on overcast days. I expect BD has battery backup to a degree.
They are still connected to the grid because BD says they are selling excess power back to the local electric company
New solar panels are being developed that generate electricity at night via ambient temperature. I do not know the exact details
You do realize what the word 'solar' indicates, right?
How about during massive hail storms. Do you know how much it costs to dispose of the chromium and cadmium laden panels as Universal, hazardous waste? Then add the logistics nightmare of having to fish these suckers out individually out of acres and acres of this crap.
What about Deepwater horizon mess?
Exxon Valdez
The thousands of oil refinery and chemical plant explosions around the world over the years polluting and killing thousands
coal mine collapse around the world killing tens of thousands over the years
Chernobyl
strip mining that forever ruins the upper topsoil
Every industry has issues and nothing is 100% perfect.
Comparing the disasters of a 10 year old industry versus one that has been around 120? And comparing the scale between the 2? I knew you were a closet enviro-whacko.
Not to add the fact, your faction is wanting to take us back to the 19th century. Do a little research, of what will happen if fossil fuels are eliminated, and then come back and discuss.
Well, the Stanford professors are using the word solar for panels that generate electricity at night so I guess I can also. Hey how about rebutting me on the ivermectin/Japan thing.
Nighttime panels only create a small amount but they are in the early development phase.
https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/solar-panels-that-work-at-night-developed-at-stanford/
Scientist are also developing panels that create energy from the friction of rain hitting them.
I think you need a little primer on how these things work. I secured dozens of air, water, and waste projects, and you have to realize that this results of this process is a laggiing indicator.
Fossil fuels will never be eliminated. FF are needed for manufacturing goods as you know. No one is saying so except the very far left wackos. The US govt has said natural gas will be needed for the next 100 years. Heck, biden is giving millions to coal industry to develop new ways to use coal.
You should know that large corporations control the agenda in this country. Why Amazon and WM were allowed to stay open during the shutdown and small mom and pop stores had to close.
Record oil and gas production under biden in 2023 and that is continuing in 2024. But wait I thought the fear porn sites said biden would destroy the oil and gas industry. lmao. Record amount of new wells pumped and fracked, Biden may tell his greenie base he is going to get rid of FF but at the same time he looks over and winks at the gas and oil co';
https://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/news/2023/06/cushing-ok-chosen-as-new-site-for-56-b-oil-refinery-project/
US Energy admin. US Natural gas will continue to grow for decades to come.
https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61863
2022 11 new natural gas plants
2023 10 new natural gas plants
24-25 20 new will be coming online
But herp derp biden is shutting down the industry. lmao
Wrong. These were pernits predominantly secured during the Trump administrations. Want to know how many permits were prepared and adminstrately secured singularly during the Biden admin? ZERO
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianpalmer/2024/01/30/what-the-presidents-permit-pause-means-for-the-golden-age-of-liquefied-natural-gas/?sh=35413a893d2f (https://www.forbes.com/sites/ianpalmer/2024/01/30/what-the-presidents-permit-pause-means-for-the-golden-age-of-liquefied-natural-gas/?sh=35413a893d2f)
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-permit-crackdown-poses-new-hurdles-proposed-lng-projects-analysts-2023-05-11/ (https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/us-permit-crackdown-poses-new-hurdles-proposed-lng-projects-analysts-2023-05-11/)
Pedo Joe has very specifically stated that it is his intent to destroy the hydrocarbon industry. Your silly contention that post approved permits prior to his admin is a sign of endorsement is a joke. I worked the industry in the most finite detail in this area, and can unequivocally say that since his primary 1 first goal of killing the XL pipeline......... Pedo Joe has done nothing for the benefit of the Fossil Fuel Industry
LOL!
0.05 watts per square meter... Or about 0.6 watt/hours for a 12 hour night... That's about 0.012 CENTS (not dollars) of electricity or a whopping $0.043 a YEAR worth of electricity... That's with nearly 11 square feet of panel... While that's an interesting novelty it has no practical use. The return time on investment is infinity... It will never pay for itself, ever...
LOL!
0.05 watts per square meter... Or about 0.6 watt/hours for a 12 hour night... That's about 0.012 CENTS (not dollars) of electricity or a whopping $0.043 a YEAR worth of electricity... That's with nearly 11 square feet of panel... While that's an interesting novelty it has no practical use. The return time on investment is infinity... It will never pay for itself, ever...
I said it is in the early development phase. No one is installing them yet. Nearly every new invention or progress starts with very small steps.
Do you have it next to that file with the water fueled engine? :silly:
I said it is in the early development phase. No one is installing them yet. Nearly every new invention or progress starts with very small steps.
I do a good job typically of securing articles and tech papers around the enviro-scam, but one that I have sadly lost is the one where it was shown and proven, that when you take every facet of the "btu" in the process of making and using energy, that absolutely none of the green alternatives have more efficency than traditonal fossil fuels, and nuclear.
I still look for it occasionally, and it was written in the 2013-2015 timeframe, and academia based. If anyone else is interested.
FACT! It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn-based ethanol when ALL inputs are considered.
And that's our ticket to energy independence! ROFLMAO!!!
This comes to mind every time I see or hear an enviro-whacko
(https://imageproxy.ifunny.co/crop:x-20,resize:640x,quality:90x75/images/5b953fceb48edb96dd5ef89d9d8921c8748939ab1f6c0d946819ab2526d360b2_1.jpg)
Yes, many of the permits were started during Trump but not all.
There were numerous gas wells permits that were not put together in my county until 2022/2023.
We own a piece of property that is receiving gas royalties . The grid for this land was first put together in mid 2022. We were notified via certified mail at that time that a gas company was wanting to drill a well under our grid. We ended up signing with Ascent.
The well permit was approved by our state in Feb or March 2023. 3 years after trump.
They installed a well right away and we started receiving royalty checks October 2023. That was when Ukraine was in full mode, NG was record high and were receiving $4000-4500 PER ACRE every month. Some of that was due to NG prices and of course a new well produces a lot at first. Now it is down to on average $350-400 per month per acre.
You can nitpick all you want and that is all you have. My point is every conservative fear porn site said biden would destroy the fossil fuel industry. Just as Trump said not once but twice on Twitter and Truth Social and hundreds of times at rallys and such that biden would destroy the stock market yet it is at record highs also.
Oil and gas companies are making record profits. The greatest in their history.
Yes, many of the permits were started during Trump but not all.
There were numerous gas wells permits that were not put together in my county until 2022/2023.
We own a piece of property that is receiving gas royalties . The grid for this land was first put together in mid 2022. We were notified via certified mail at that time that a gas company was wanting to drill a well under our grid. We ended up signing with Ascent.
The well permit was approved by our state in Feb or March 2023. 3 years after trump.
Come on.... at least don't obfuscate your positions. Big difference in permitting a well versus a manufacturing site. Most of those happen at the state regulatory level anyway.
They installed a well right away and we started receiving royalty checks October 2023. That was when Ukraine was in full mode, NG was record high and were receiving $4000-4500 PER ACRE every month. Some of that was due to NG prices and of course a new well produces a lot at first. Now it is down to on average $350-400 per month per acre.
Again... thank your nasty dirty oil company (/s), and your state regulatory agencies which has jurisdictional control over individual wells.
You can nitpick all you want and that is all you have. My point is every conservative fear porn site said biden would destroy the fossil fuel industry. Just as Trump said not once but twice on Twitter and Truth Social and hundreds of times at rallys and such that biden would destroy the stock market yet it is at record highs also.
I don't have enough time to give an ECON lesson on stupid market exuberance. I have said many times that this market is at least 50% over sold. The fact you don't realize that years of QE 1,2,3, etc. And bogus infrastructure legislative initiatives are the only reason these markets are this high. Deficit spending in a kick the can method is all that is keeping this house of cards upright. Second, the slight perceived cooling of Biden's destructive path is slightly augmented by the point he wants to be re-elelcted. If he wins, watch for a double strenght resumption of Biden's anti-FF policies.
Oil and gas companies are making record profits. The greatest in their history.
Bull shit. Work the inflation adjusted numbers, and you will find that ROCE is pretty close cyclically to any other time that the price of oil is over say an arbitraty $60/bbl. Then get back with me around how Big Tech has captialized itself propelled itself at least 5X of that of oil. Befiore bitching about big oil profits, get back with me on those.
I don't have enough time to give an ECON lesson on stupid market exuberance...
I have plenty of time but refuse to waste it trying to educate a useless troll.
Show me where biden destroyed the fossil fuel industry and the stock market as the right claimed he would.
Trump says Biden would 'destroy' oil industry
NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com › video › trump-says-biden-...
Oct 22, 2020 — Joe Biden said he would transition away from the oil industry to renewable energy because of significant pollution and President Trump said
Trump: If Biden is elected, 'the stock market will crash'
NBC News
https://www.nbcnews.com › video › trump-if-biden-is-e...
Oct 22, 2020 — Challenging financial experts' analysis, President Donald Trump claimed the stock market would crash if Joe Biden was elected president ...
Just a quick note... High inflation increases stock values in terms of dollars. In other words, the less a dollar is worth the more of them it takes to buy something, including stock.
So stocks going up relative to the dollar isn't necessarily the good news you think it is.
Why do you insist on trying to educate this fool? @DB
Show me where biden destroyed the fossil fuel industry and the stock market as the right claimed he would.
What about Deepwater horizon mess?Deepwater Horizon: one blowout out of tens of thousands of wells drilled.
Exxon Valdez
The thousands of oil refinery and chemical plant explosions around the world over the years polluting and killing thousands
coal mine collapse around the world killing tens of thousands over the years
Chernobyl
strip mining that forever ruins the upper topsoil
Every industry has issues and nothing is 100% perfect.
Solar panels are being created that will withstand the worst hail and also panels are in development stage that as soon as hail hits or detected via computer they will move vertically via small motors so the panels will be saved.
Just a quick note... High inflation increases stock values in terms of dollars. In other words, the less a dollar is worth the more of them it takes to buy something, including stock.
So stocks going up relative to the dollar isn't necessarily the good news you think it is.
I don't see you addressing the sheer acreage that will be taken out of agricultural production for placing these panels where they can get sunlight in meaningful quantities (not happening at my latitude, the wind would tear them apart sooner or later, and sunlight angles are too low on the horizon), nor the effects on watersheds and the environment of shading out that land.
Just a quick note... High inflation increases stock values in terms of dollars. In other words, the less a dollar is worth the more of them it takes to buy something, including stock.
So stocks going up relative to the dollar isn't necessarily the good news you think it is.
Most of my mutual funds have been earning on average 9--16% per year since 1990's the early 2000's and I am in moderate to low risk mutual funds.. Late last year into this year they earned way above that. One of my wifes MF earned over 30% last year
So have mine. But i am smart enough to diversify. And my portfolio trends back to the early 1980's. Funny though, you failed to mention 1987, 2000, 2008, and 2020. Those were 4 examples of gravity, that our fiscally ignornant government was able to manuever through with smoke and mirrors. But I ask you... You really think one of these upcoming corrections is going to be tenable?
Here is where we stand...
* 40K Dow- 50+% over sold
* $2400/oz Gold- record, and massively strong KPI that our currency is going through base de-evaluation.
* Debt to GDP ratio of near 150%. This happened due to World War 2, but the U.S. was blossoming and developing industrial power house. We recovered. That industrial base is gone now. When the debt bubble pops, its going to get ugly. AND.... do you see any government action right now attempting to reverse this?
* As the debt sprials further, watch other factions of nations convert to a different currency (i.e BRICS) Then watch us wither into a 3rd world economic power in about the space of 10-12 months
Way way above rate of inflation and lowering of the dollar.
My CFP says all his clients are overjoyed.
I know as much as my CFP, but he is smart enough to let his clients know that these are perilous times economically.
Yet there are some rw who just have to beotch about something. If Biden came out today and said he signing a law lowering taxes and govt regulations some of you would still find something to complain about.
Nothing like throwing a silly non-sequitur to provide cover to our political enemies.
Partisanship has become poisonous in this country.
Hey, you finally got one right. But realize that poison is at the behest of half our legislators wanting to take us over the cliff at a 100 different angles.
3. Record amount of private investors now in the market-close to 60%. and that figure grows each year.
You realize that this is still in progress? Big difference in "present tense" and "future tense". Look at every angle of outlawing sales of gas in blue states, to unachievable mileage ratings, to EV mandates, to extrmemely costly abatement technoligies and processes being applied to the regulated community (oil, coal). If this isn't a damned plan for destruction, I don't know what is.
DO NOT LET THE FEAR PORN SITES CONTROL YOIUR THINKING.
Beware of shoe shine boys and elevator operators giving stock advice......
Joe Kennedy, 1928/1929
I was a manager for a large oil company. I don't think many outsiders are going do any control as far as this matter.
Not in any way compare to today. back then most of these people had no information to go by. Today there are thousands of Invesment sites that give all the information you need.
Amateur investors are out performing many professional fund managers
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/diyinvesting/article-12618595/Amateur-investors-outperforming-fund-managers.html
I worked in the Oil, Gas, and Petrochemical industry for a long time, and I know for sure outsiders aren't going to influence me one bit.
As the debt sprials further, watch other factions of nations convert to a different currency (i.e BRICS) Then watch us wither into a 3rd world economic power in about the space of 10-12 months
BRICS? Really?
I am happy you are bullish on U.S prospects. Keep up the good work. :silly:
If you think our economy is going to collapse why are you still in the market? Even your inner common sense knows you are full of crap. lol
Take the hobbles off the oil, coal, and natural Gas industries, and we'll have plenty of energy, without pissing taxpayer dollars down Solyndra ratholes.
We will probably see our standard living decline further through inflation versus an outright crash.
If things were going great as we are told they are, Biden would have a +50% job approval rating.
Why are his ratings low? Because people are experiencing reality vs rhetoric. They’re not seeing all this good news in their real life. Telling them that they’re not experiencing what they’re experiencing isn’t going to sell
On the other hand, I’ve been hearing how the dollar is going to be replaced for going on 30 years. But there’s nothing to replace it with. Regardless who is in the White House at any given time, America has the largest economy in terms of GDP. I remember hearing in the 80s how Japan is going to take over us. How’d that work out?
It’s not that things are going great. It’s just we’re the tallest midget in the room
I said it is in the early development phase. No one is installing them yet. Nearly every new invention or progress starts with very small steps.
THAT's the money shot, right there.
Just a quick note... High inflation increases stock values in terms of dollars. In other words, the less a dollar is worth the more of them it takes to buy something, including stock.
So stocks going up relative to the dollar isn't necessarily the good news you think it is.
We will probably see our standard living decline further through inflation versus an outright crash.
I would include nuclear as well.
I'm alright with nuclear, but won't be a fan until they figure out how to deal properly with the waste. Petro and coal waste is generally compost-able - we just don't do that right. Spent nuke is pure poison for a thousand years.
Breeder reactors are a type of nuclear reactor which produce more fissile materials than they consume.
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Breeder_reactor#:~:text=Breeder%20reactors%20are%20a%20type,a%20potential%20renewable%20energy%20source.
They solar panels for the Chase regional bank in Columbus Ohio (13,000 employees) covers the parking lot-it supplies 85% of their power and with upgrades they hope to get it to 100%. Home Depot in CA has put solar panels on the roof of their stores.So I should shell out money for subsidies for Chase Manhattan Bank and Home Depot?
But the big news is NREL found that the total amount of land needed by 2035 to achieve our clean power goals with wind, solar and long-distance transmission lines (19,700 sq. mi) would be:
equivalent to the land area currently occupied by railroads (18,500 sq. mi)
less than half the area of active oil and gas leases (40,500 sq. mi)
less than one-third of the area currently needed for ethanol production (59,500 sq. mi), and
only slightly more than the historically disturbed land area for coal mining (13,100 sq. mi).
I'm not against solar. I am a fan. Distributed solar makes sense to me, with buy-back deals with electric companies, the consumer level cost would be paid for in 10 years or so, and your average suburban or rural home could be nearly self-contained.
That's a big, robust, distributed system, with the lion's share of the energy already at the end-point... so less transmission and transmission loss. Hard to knock down. That's worth looking at.
But I am dead against big solar.
Big distributed power generation that isn't directly managed by a power company is a problem and can be unstable. Another problem is generation can change rapidly with clouds/storm moving in. Something has to take up the slack quickly or it fails.
Well, the Stanford professors are using the word solar for panels that generate electricity at night so I guess I can also.
There are still a lot of questions to be answered before any commercial application can be rolled out, Geoff Smith, emeritus professor in applied physics at The University of Technology Sydney, wrote in an email response to questions. Smith, who was aware of the research but not involved, has doubts that it ever will be an economically viable source of energy.
"Adding complexity and avenues for degradation to renewable energy systems despite being scientifically interesting rarely makes it in practice," he wrote.
Hey how about rebutting me on the ivermectin/Japan thing.
FACT! It takes 1.4 units of energy to produce 1 unit of energy from corn-based ethanol when ALL inputs are considered.
And that's our ticket to energy independence! ROFLMAO!!!
Has this thread run it's course yet?
Oil and gas companies are making record profits. The greatest in their history.
Show me where biden destroyed the fossil fuel industry and the stock market as the right claimed he would.
Trump says Biden would 'destroy' oil industry
You want a real explosion? Check into what happened in Halifax, Nova Scotia or Beirut, Lebanon.
Like you said, every industry has its risks.
Breeder reactors are a type of nuclear reactor which produce more fissile materials than they consume.
https://energyeducation.ca/encyclopedia/Breeder_reactor#:~:text=Breeder%20reactors%20are%20a%20type,a%20potential%20renewable%20energy%20source.
I'm not against solar. I am a fan. Distributed solar makes sense to me, with buy-back deals with electric companies, the consumer level cost would be paid for in 10 years or so, and your average suburban or rural home could be nearly self-contained.
That's a big, robust, distributed system, with the lion's share of the energy already at the end-point... so less transmission and transmission loss. Hard to knock down. That's worth looking at.
But I am dead against big solar.
Don't forget the Texas City explosion in Galveston Bay.Thanks. I knew I had missed one.
I never disputed their old age. Not once. You know that. You read my response. What I did dispute was the reason you gave for the low covid deaths-ivermectin.
What kind of rebuttal are you looking for? Are you disputing that Japan has one of the oldest populations in the world?
I decided to put banddag on ignore.
As this thread has demonstrated, he has [what was] sinkspur's ability to take over a thread and by doing so pre-occupy and distort the participation of other forum members.
Perhaps he's being paid to do so (as I always suspected that sinkspur was).
Bye, banddag ...
How will you ever learn and progress by only reading one side?
A thing called critical thinking. Knowing more than a shallow understanding of how the world works.Doing more than "google, cut, and paste" is essential, too.
A thing called critical thinking.
Has this thread run it's course yet?Definitely.
How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on the back?
How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on the back?
Perhaps because the participants are educated, well informed, and have heard all this bullshit before, many times.Seriously, I live in SoCal there are are probably more EV's here than anywhere else because the climate is perfect for them year round, that of course changes in NorCal. You could not pay me to have an EV, I live in an apartment like millions of others and would be stuck using pubic charging stations, that's a no go and even if I owned a home it would be a no go as homed based charging is a very expensive deal, plus I don't like the odds of a firebomb going off in my garage. And then the is the time it currently takes to charge, why should I sit around waiting for an EV to charge when I can fill the tank of my ICE in less than five minutes or less? Nope until they come up with cars powered by Mister Fusion I'll stick to my ICE car....with the added bonus that I won't risk being trapped in a natural disaster when the power goes out.
How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on the back?
How do you get critical thinking when no pro ev threads are posted and all the members think alike in a echo chamber repeating each other and patting each other on the back?
You fail to understand, repeatedly. Few if any here are against EVs. There are some really nice ones. The point is, government is forcing it down everyone's throats based on bad science with a product and infrastructure that are not ready for prime time. There's already a shortage of electricity, and costs are rising, the grid is nowhere near being able to support fully electric transportation. Unicorns won't make it happen. It is lowering our standard of living across the board by getting less for more cost.
The free market is excellent at bringing new technologies forward, let them without government interference and/or picking winners and losers with my tax dollars.
Informed people can "think alike" simply because they are knowledgeable on the subject. There are engineers and other technical people here who know far more about these things than you do. A wise person would learn from them instead trying to tell them things they know aren't so.
Seriously, I live in SoCal there are are probably more EV's here than anywhere else because the climate is perfect for them year round, that of course changes in NorCal. You could not pay me to have an EV, I live in an apartment like millions of others and would be stuck using pubic charging stations, that's a no go and even if I owned a home it would be a no go as homed based charging is a very expensive deal, plus I don't like the odds of a firebomb going off in my garage. And then the is the time it currently takes to charge, why should I sit around waiting for an EV to charge when I can fill the tank of my ICE in less than five minutes or less? Nope until they come up with cars powered by Mister Fusion I'll stick to my ICE car....with the added bonus that I won't risk being trapped in a natural disaster when the power goes out.
Up in here they are as laughable as the smart cars... I mean point and laugh.
But put that in a context - We don't have smart cars up in here... We have side-by-sides and Razors. :shrug:
Side-by-sides and Razors are WAY more fun, not to mention more functional, than any smart car.