The Briefing Room
General Category => Economy/Business => Topic started by: 240B on December 26, 2017, 03:37:20 pm
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Washington Examiner
by Kelly Cohen
Dec 26, 2017, 8:51 AM
China is set to overtake the United States as the world's no. 1 economy by 2032, according to a new report.
According to a report by the Centre for Economics and Business Research in London, the major economies of Asia will continue to dominate in the coming years.
(more)
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/china-to-overtake-us-economy-by-2032-report/article/2644363
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@240B
I don't think people realize most of what they buy is made in China. If all Chinese products were removed from a home, the family members and their home would have trouble functioning. Some of our drugs are also made there. In writing my book, I did extensive research on where our drugs are made. Most are made overseas and I was stunned to know they are even made in China.
Without China, people wouldn't have many clothes or shoes. The Asian countries make most of what we have. This is dangerous to the US - if those countries stopped sending us goods, our country would falter.
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@240B
I don't think people realize most of what they buy is made in China. If all Chinese products were removed from a home, the family members and their home would have trouble functioning. Some of our drugs are also made there. In writing my book, I did extensive research on where our drugs are made. Most are made overseas and I was stunned to know they are even made in China.
Without China, people wouldn't have many clothes or shoes. The Asian countries make most of what we have. This is dangerous to the US - if those countries stopped sending us goods, our country would falter.
And if they stopped selling their goods to us, their economies would collapse, which wouldn’t be so good for them, either.
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@240B
I don't think people realize most of what they buy is made in China. If all Chinese products were removed from a home, the family members and their home would have trouble functioning. Some of our drugs are also made there. In writing my book, I did extensive research on where our drugs are made. Most are made overseas and I was stunned to know they are even made in China.
Without China, people wouldn't have many clothes or shoes. The Asian countries make most of what we have. This is dangerous to the US - if those countries stopped sending us goods, our country would falter.
@Victoria33
All true. If you go into most stores, it is difficult to find anything at all that is not made in China. But the most absurd part of the Chinese takeover of America is that even some American military systems depend on parts made in China. As hard as it may be to believe, China provides America with components used on our satellites, submarines, and missiles. It is truly incredible how intermeshed China is with every aspect of American existence.
And, of course, you are right. If China were to call in our debt, we would be bankrupt overnight. If China were to begin sanctions on us, inflation and goods shortages would skyrocket. Through the decades we have painted ourselves into a corner vis a vis China. America is very vulnerable to Chinese influence, and they are very aware of this fact. How they intend to use it in the future remains to be seen.
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@Victoria33
It is truly incredible how intermeshed China is with every aspect of American existence.
And, of course, you are right. If China were to call in our debt, we would be bankrupt overnight.
@240B
Let me put it this way: If we piss them off, we are sunk. Here is us and them with a frying pan: 22222frying pan
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@240B
Let me put it this way: If we piss them off, we are sunk. Here is us and them with a frying pan: 22222frying pan
Because of the incredibly easy access to cheap goods from China, we no longer have the ability to take care of ourselves. There is virtually no manufacturing of anything in America anymore.
If China went away, there would be no way to fill the gap. It would take a decade to rebuild our manufacturing base to recover. I'm not sure we would even last a decade in that scenario. External threats combined with internal social chaos may mean we would simply never recover.
It is not China's fault. Our politicians and business leaders put us in this position, not China. And they know the risk. That is why they all have escape plans already made to escape the country in just such a case of social collapse.
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@240B
Let me put it this way: If we piss them off, we are sunk. Here is us and them with a frying pan: 22222frying pan
@240B @Victoria33
China has a large amount of fraud in their economy. Just this weekend there was another story about some of the reports being faked. They lie about the income and understate their debt. I take anything they say with a grain of salt.
That said, yes we owe them a lot of money. We owe other people a lot of money. It goes to the old saying, if I owe you $1000 then I have a problem. If I owe you $1million then you have a problem. its not in their interest to rush in and demand their money. If they 'sink' us then they wouldn't get their money. If we sink, the global economy also sinks and they would sink as well.
Its kinda like mutually assured destruction from the cold war days.
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There is virtually no manufacturing of anything in America anymore.
What nonsense.
https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-manufacturing-what-it-is-statistics-and-outlook-3305575 (https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-manufacturing-what-it-is-statistics-and-outlook-3305575)
U.S. manufacturing is the largest in the world. It produces 18.2 percent of the world's goods. That's more than the entire economic output of Canada, Korea, or Mexico. But America's leadership position is threatened by high operating costs. That gives a competitive edge to other countries. First among these is China. Its low-cost factories manufacture 17.6 percent of the world's products...
...Manufacturing is an essential component of GDP. In 2016, it was $2.18 trillion. That drove 11.7 percent of U.S. economic output. It Manufactured goods comprise half of U.S. exports.....
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Because of the incredibly easy access to cheap goods from China, we no longer have the ability to take care of ourselves. There is virtually no manufacturing of anything in America anymore.
If China went away, there would be no way to fill the gap. It would take a decade to rebuild our manufacturing base to recover. I'm not sure we would even last a decade in that scenario. External threats combined with internal social chaos may mean we would simply never recover.
It is not China's fault. Our politicians and business leaders put us in this position, not China. And they know the risk. That is why they all have escape plans already made to escape the country in just such a case of social collapse.
it really comes down to big business paying off our politicians. Big companies saw a billion customers needing to buy stuff, credit cards, loans and whatever else. They see America as a market thats already saturated, meaning everyone already has one of whatever they're selling. America is also a much smaller market having only 300m customers.
So our big business moved to china, and made lots of money. Then our govt increased the corporate tax rate so the companies didn't bring it back. The Chinese govt also makes it extremely difficult to send money out of china. The end result is less wealth, fewer jobs, and a declining America.
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@Victoria33
All true. If you go into most stores, it is difficult to find anything at all that is not made in China. But the most absurd part of the Chinese takeover of America is that even some American military systems depend on parts made in China. As hard as it may be to believe, China provides America with components used on our satellites, submarines, and missiles. It is truly incredible how intermeshed China is with every aspect of American existence.
And, of course, you are right. If China were to call in our debt, we would be bankrupt overnight. If China were to begin sanctions on us, inflation and goods shortages would skyrocket. Through the decades we have painted ourselves into a corner vis a vis China. America is very vulnerable to Chinese influence, and they are very aware of this fact. How they intend to use it in the future remains to be seen.
I'd say it's a good thing that they simply are not able to "call in our debt", but it doesn't matter anyway. What percentage of our debt do you think China holds?
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I'd say it's a good thing that they simply are not able to "call in our debt", but it doesn't matter anyway. What percentage of our debt do you think China holds?
About 5% of the total national debt.
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What nonsense.
https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-manufacturing-what-it-is-statistics-and-outlook-3305575 (https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-manufacturing-what-it-is-statistics-and-outlook-3305575)
U.S. manufacturing is the largest in the world. It produces 18.2 percent of the world's goods. That's more than the entire economic output of Canada, Korea, or Mexico. But America's leadership position is threatened by high operating costs. That gives a competitive edge to other countries. First among these is China. Its low-cost factories manufacture 17.6 percent of the world's products...
...Manufacturing is an essential component of GDP. In 2016, it was $2.18 trillion. That drove 11.7 percent of U.S. economic output. It Manufactured goods comprise half of U.S. exports.....
@thackney
its not nonsense, perhaps its not as accurate as many people think but the US has lost a tremendous amount of manufacturing capacity to China. Entire manufacturing bases have all but disappeared disappeared from the US. Not only the capacity, but the capability and of course the money.
Most people think its due to wages but there are many other factors. Most of which account for govt regulation and taxes.
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@thackney
its not nonsense, perhaps its not as accurate as many people think but...
We are the largest manufacturer in the world. To claim we have virtually no manufacturing, is to claim no country in the world has manufacturing.
Utter nonsense.
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We have serious problems but so does China...way worse.
The Chinese gov't is going in reverse and taking away freedoms, less freedom of the press and religion while the growing middle class want more freedoms.
They also have serious overproduction which is going to come back and bite them in the ass.
I think we will be ok as long as Trump stays in power and future Presidents follow his lead.
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What scares me about China is the China 2025 program where they want to control 10 key industries by 2025 and are going to throw as much money at it as it takes. I.e computers, biotechnology, robotics.
That being said they still do not have freedom like we have and that counts for much.
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Dating to the Cold War, Economic Interdependence (together with mutual annihilation) has been seen as the paradigm for world peace.
And it could be argued that in terms of the nuclear superpowers (US, USSR, China, UK, France) is has worked since there has not been a repeat of WWII.
Carry on.
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We are the largest manufacturer in the world. To claim we have virtually no manufacturing, is to claim no country in the world has manufacturing.
Utter nonsense.
@thackney
What kind of manufacturing are you talking about? It is certainly not domestic goods. Go into a Walmat or a Target store and find anything made in America. You might find something, but it won't be easy.
What does America manufacture? I really would like to know.
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@thackney
What kind of manufacturing are you talking about? It is certainly not domestic goods. Go into a Walmat or a Target store and find anything made in America. You might find something, but it won't be easy.
What does America manufacture? I really would like to know.
We still manufacture quite a bit mostly hi-tech items. We lost a lot of factories and employees but much of that was due to automation.
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Been hearing this for years. Wake me up when it actually happens.
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@thackney
What kind of manufacturing are you talking about? It is certainly not domestic goods. Go into a Walmat or a Target store and find anything made in America. You might find something, but it won't be easy.
What does America manufacture? I really would like to know.
My 2017 VW Passat was built in Tennessee. Seems to me that counts as American manufacturing.
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Considering they have four and one half times the population, it's kind of pitiful they haven't surpassed us already.
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My 2017 VW Passat was built in Tennessee. Seems to me that counts as American manufacturing.
@Oceander
It was 'assembled' in Tennessee. The parts were manufactured overseas.
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@Oceander
It was 'assembled' in Tennessee. The parts were manufactured overseas.
Don’t be obtuse. It was manufactured in the US.
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@thackney
What kind of manufacturing are you talking about? It is certainly not domestic goods. Go into a Walmat or a Target store and find anything made in America. You might find something, but it won't be easy.
What does America manufacture? I really would like to know.
Most Americans unaware that as U.S. manufacturing jobs have disappeared, output has grown
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/25/most-americans-unaware-that-as-u-s-manufacturing-jobs-have-disappeared-output-has-grown/ (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/07/25/most-americans-unaware-that-as-u-s-manufacturing-jobs-have-disappeared-output-has-grown/)
... Last year, U.S. manufacturers made about $5.4 trillion worth of goods and products (in constant 2009 dollars), according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The biggest categories were food, beverages and tobacco products ($817 billion), chemical products ($752 billion) and motor vehicles and parts ($670 billion).
After adjusting for inflation, manufacturing output in the first quarter of this year was more than 80% above its level 30 years ago, according to BLS data....
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https://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=51&step=1#reqid=51&step=51&isuri=1&5114=a&5102=1 (https://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?ReqID=51&step=1#reqid=51&step=51&isuri=1&5114=a&5102=1)
Manufacturing:
Durable goods
- Wood products
- Nonmetallic mineral products
- Primary metals
- Fabricated metal products
- Machinery
- Computer and electronic products
- Electrical equipment, appliances, and components
- Motor vehicles, bodies and trailers, and parts
- Other transportation equipment
- Furniture and related products
Nondurable goods
- Food and beverage and tobacco products
- Textile mills and textile product mills
- Apparel and leather and allied products
- Paper products
- Printing and related support activities
- Petroleum and coal products
- Chemical products
- Plastics and rubber products
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@Oceander
It was 'assembled' in Tennessee. The parts were manufactured overseas.
Are you seriously trying to say those huge factories building cars are not manufacturing? Ford, GM, Boeing, etc building finished products are not manufactures?
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Are you seriously trying to say those huge factories building cars are not manufacturing? Ford, GM, Boeing, etc building finished products are not manufactures?
I sense that you are becoming agitated. That is not my intent. We are not arguing. We are discussing.
If they were manufacturing, there would foundries in those plants pouring hot metal. I do not believe that is the case. But I could be wrong. I don't know. I willing to accept your points.
Maybe the issue is that you and I have a different idea of what the term 'manufacturing' means. But that's Ok.
I stand corrected.
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I sense that you are becoming agitated. That is not my intent. We are not arguing. We are discussing.
If they were manufacturing, there would foundries in those plants pouring hot metal. I do not believe that is the case. But I could be wrong. I don't know. I willing to accept your points.
Maybe the issue is that you and I have a different idea of what the term 'manufacturing' means. But that's Ok.
I stand corrected.
Manufacturing is taking raw materials into finished products, typically in factories. I use the same definition the world uses in counting manufacturing statistics. There are nearly always multiple steps from the raw material "mined" or harvested to the product intended for the end user. Each one of those steps is manufacturing. Regardless if it is accomplished by one company or a dozen.
If you only want to count the first step as manufacturing, taking a raw material into a part of the finished product, you are unique in your definition.
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Are you seriously trying to say those huge factories building cars are not manufacturing? Ford, GM, Boeing, etc building finished products are not manufactures?
They assemble. Meaning a significant amount of jobs and money are outside the US to make those parts.
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Are you seriously trying to say those huge factories building cars are not manufacturing? Ford, GM, Boeing, etc building finished products are not manufactures?
Exactly.
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They assemble. Meaning a significant amount of jobs and money are outside the US to make those parts.
So? A significant part - a more significant part since the final product is involved - is inside the US.
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How would China call in our debt exactly? All they could do is threaten not to buy our debt which would collapse the dollar and make our exports cheaper.
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So? A significant part - a more significant part since the final product is involved - is inside the US.
So China has gotten rich because the US is manufacturing so much.
Man it must be easy to pass the CA bar
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So China has gotten rich because the US is manufacturing so much.
Man it must be easy to pass the CA bar
China, rich? They're in debt up to their eyeballs worse than we are.
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China, rich? They're in debt up to their eyeballs worse than we are.
Their currency is in all kinds of trouble and the Chinese Govt is covering it up.
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What nonsense.
https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-manufacturing-what-it-is-statistics-and-outlook-3305575 (https://www.thebalance.com/u-s-manufacturing-what-it-is-statistics-and-outlook-3305575)
U.S. manufacturing is the largest in the world. It produces 18.2 percent of the world's goods. That's more than the entire economic output of Canada, Korea, or Mexico. But America's leadership position is threatened by high operating costs. That gives a competitive edge to other countries. First among these is China. Its low-cost factories manufacture 17.6 percent of the world's products...
...Manufacturing is an essential component of GDP. In 2016, it was $2.18 trillion. That drove 11.7 percent of U.S. economic output. It Manufactured goods comprise half of U.S. exports.....
Yep. High energy costs due to moronic regulation to go "green" and government regulation and taxes also drive U.S. manufacturing out of country. There are many barriers these days to manufacturing competitively.
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So China has gotten rich because the US is manufacturing so much.
Man it must be easy to pass the CA bar
They have more than four times the population of the U.S. and produce less than we do as a country. And you think that is "rich"... China's per capita GDP is somewhere around $8,123.2... That's about 1/7th the U.S. Get a freaking clue.
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For the umpteenth time, China will not overtake the US economically
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/for_the_umpteenth_time_china_will_not_overtake_the_united_states_economically.html (http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/12/for_the_umpteenth_time_china_will_not_overtake_the_united_states_economically.html)
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So China has gotten rich because the US is manufacturing so much.
Man it must be easy to pass the CA bar
That’s the way economics works, kiddo. It isn’t a zero-sum game. Perhaps you should have taken a basic class in economics.
I have no idea how hard or easy it is to pass the CA bar. You might ask someone who’s taken it.
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China's millennials are just as lazy and unambitious as ours. This is a worldwide occurence in just about every culture. Much of it I blame social media and parents only having 1-2 kids and spoiling them.
China is not free like we are and our free capitalistic system will always overpower theirs. We have some hick-ups but we will come back. The pendulam always swings back. China has way more serious issues than the US.
https://www.afp.com/en/news/824/keep-calm-and-be-average-chinas-unambitious-millennials-doc-v67jj1 (https://www.afp.com/en/news/824/keep-calm-and-be-average-chinas-unambitious-millennials-doc-v67jj1)
@thackney
@240B
@Oceander
@driftdiver
@To-Whose-Benefit?
@InHeavenThereIsNoBeer
@IsailedawayfromFR
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What scares me about China is the China 2025 program where they want to control 10 key industries by 2025 and are going to throw as much money at it as it takes. I.e computers, biotechnology, robotics.
That being said they still do not have freedom like we have and that counts for much.
@mirraflake
That's what worries me, too. They have put in very targeted investments in strategic sectors. It's not taking over garment manufacturing that bothers me as much.
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The story is Bullshit. China is bullshit. I say down with the bullshit. Lets put the bullshit back in America. Make Bullshit Great Again....
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The story is Bullshit. China is bullshit. I say down with the bullshit. Lets put the bullshit back in America. Make Bullshit Great Again....
@WineNot
Starting the party early?
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@WineNot
Starting the party early?
Can you finish writing your name in cursive in the snow at minus 12 degree's?