The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: bkepley on August 31, 2015, 04:03:36 pm
-
Maxwell Tani
BI
After months of deliberating, in June 2014, House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) told President Barack Obama he would not take up the bipartisan immigration-reform bill that passed the US Senate in 2013.
Boehner had publicly and privately lobbied members of his caucus to support some kind of reform, which was backed by many high-profile business groups including the Chamber of Commerce and enjoyed fairly broad political support.
And despite warnings at the time that the party was ruining the best chance for it had to make up ground with Latino voters, Boehner stood down after conservative members of the Republican caucus and incumbent Republicans who feared primary challengers urged the speaker not to take up the bill.
Now the doomsday predictions for more than 10% of the electorate are threatening to come true for the GOP because of one man: Donald Trump.
...
A Gallup poll released last week showed that the real-estate magnate had the highest net unfavorable rating of any Republican candidate by a landslide. Hispanic voters view Trump more unfavorably than favorably by 51%, far higher than the net unfavorability of the next nearest candidates, former Gov. Rick Perry of Texas (R) and Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), who both clocked a net unfavorability of 7% among Hispanic voters in the same poll.
...
Though Hispanic voters clearly don't view Trump favorably, the Gallup poll suggests that so far, other candidates haven't seen their images shattered alongside him. Jeb Bush, for instance, is viewed favorably by 34% of Hispanic voters, compared with just 23% viewing him unfavorably.
The DNC hinted that Trump's comments may help with efforts to register Latinos, whom, according to The Washington Post, the campaign of former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is already approaching outside Hispanic grocery stores and churches.
"The bigger question is will it drive people to register to vote," Manriquez said. "My take is that it will."
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-may-dooming-gop-222551449.html
-
Maxwell Tani
BI
...
Boehner had publicly and privately lobbied members of his caucus to support some kind of reform, which was backed by many high-profile business groups including the Chamber of Commerce and enjoyed fairly broad political support.
...
But those of us who saw through this as a play for C of C cheap labor were told we were nuts, right?
-
But those of us who saw through this as a play for C of C cheap labor were told we were nuts, right?
Who said you were nuts? This is why Trump will have a harder time than he thinks with the illegals. Lots of businesses, farmers etc. love the illegals because yes they are relatively cheap but more importantly better workers for many jobs. Farmers around here wouldn't hire non-Latinos if they could pay them half as much. The farmers will probably vote more Democrat than they have in a long time if Trump is the nominee.
-
Don't care how many negative Trump threads you guys initiate on the forum.
Don't care if you show me a photograph of Donald Trump standing over a body holding a dripping bloody knife.
I'm voting for him. :seeya:
-
Don't care how many negative Trump threads you guys initiate on the forum.
Don't care if you show me a photograph of Donald Trump standing over a body holding a dripping bloody knife.
I'm voting for him. :seeya:
Ditto, try the ignore feature on here , it is great
-
Ditto, try the ignore feature on here , it is great
Nope....the forum seems like it's crawling as it is. I'm not placing anybody on 'ignore'.
Scroll wheel on my mouse works just fine. :laugh:
-
Who said you were nuts? This is why Trump will have a harder time than he thinks with the illegals. Lots of businesses, farmers etc. love the illegals because yes they are relatively cheap but more importantly better workers for many jobs. Farmers around here wouldn't hire non-Latinos if they could pay them half as much. The farmers will probably vote more Democrat than they have in a long time if Trump is the nominee.
This is not anything new. Therein lies the problem! Cheap labor. Again....employers (farmers included) should be fined for hiring illegals. I've turned in a couple of employers who hired illegals to ICE and to the IRS. There are plenty of folks out of work that need jobs. The myth that nobody will do the work of illegals is a load of crap.
-
Don't care how many negative Trump threads you guys initiate on the forum.
Don't care if you show me a photograph of Donald Trump standing over a body holding a dripping bloody knife.
I'm voting for him. :seeya:
Hey, you are entitled to your opinion as am I. I will take my chances and vote for Trump any day over Bush, Christie, and Gilmore. As for the dripping bloody knife...not so sure on that; but I think Hillary would still have him beat on that one.
-
But those of us who saw through this as a play for C of C cheap labor were told we were nuts, right?
When did the conservative movement become anti-business?
-
Don't care how many negative Trump threads you guys initiate on the forum.
Don't care if you show me a photograph of Donald Trump standing over a body holding a dripping bloody knife.
I'm voting for him. :seeya:
Your response reminds me of something Ben Carson at the National Prayer breakfast said to an atheist who called him a moron for believing in God “I believe I came from God, and you believe you came from a monkey. And you’ve convinced me you’re right.”
Well - you convinced me of something too. That the Trump movement has crossed a frightening line rarely seen in human history, but when it happened, only evil spawned from it, along with Gulags and concentration camps and death. And you convinced me and I hope others here, more than ever that Trump is wrong for America - wrong for freedom.
-
Your response reminds me of something Ben Carson at the National Prayer breakfast said to an atheist who called him a moron for believing in God “I believe I came from God, and you believe you came from a monkey. And you’ve convinced me you’re right.”
Well - you convinced me of something too. That the Trump movement has crossed a frightening line rarely seen in human history, but when it's happened, only evil spawned from it, along with Gulags and concentration camps and death. And you convinced me and I hope others here, more than ever that Trump is wrong for America - wrong for freedom.
Absolutely. Spirit of the anti-conservative. Bomb throwers.
-
Don't care how many negative Trump threads you guys initiate on the forum.
Don't care if you show me a photograph of Donald Trump standing over a body holding a dripping bloody knife.
I'm voting for him. :seeya:
Oh, and if you are looking for someone to blame for the sudden increase of threads favoring other candidates besides trump, you can blame one of your own chief Trumpeters Right_in_Virginia who kindly requested that if we had another candidate we support to…….well in her own words, “ If your goal is to change hearts and minds, tell us who you support with the same passion. Why not make the case for him or her instead of solely a case against Trump?”
So that is what I will do, so expect to see more – lots more pro Carson threads and replies. And I expect the same from you other non-Trump people. Thanks for the suggestion RIV.
-
Oh, and if you are looking for someone to blame for the sudden increase of threads favoring other candidates besides trump, you can blame one of your own chief Trumpeters Right_in_Virginia who kindly requested that if we had another candidate we support to…….well in his own words, “ If your goal is to change hearts and minds, tell us who you support with the same passion. Why not make the case for him or her instead of solely a case against Trump?”
So that is what I will do, so expect to see more – lots more pro Carson threads and replies. And I expect the same from you other non-Trump people. Thanks for the suggestion RIV.
Nice. He's a good and interesting man and a black man which could be historic for the GOP. Another possibility is we toss all these aside for someone like Clarence Thomas or Scalia.
-
Oh, and if you are looking for someone to blame for the sudden increase of threads favoring other candidates besides trump, you can blame one of your own chief Trumpeters Right_in_Virginia who kindly requested that if we had another candidate we support to…….well in his own words, “ If your goal is to change hearts and minds, tell us who you support with the same passion. Why not make the case for him or her instead of solely a case against Trump?”
So that is what I will do, so expect to see more – lots more pro Carson threads and replies. And I expect the same from you other non-Trump people. Thanks for the suggestion RIV.
Right_in_Virgina is female. Let's get that established, here.
The point she and others make is that rather than back a candidate and tell us why, you spend your days and nights posting anti-Trump threads.
And my point is that nothing my good friends Sinkspur or Luis can say to me that would make me change my mind...at this time.
-
Correction made, and my apologies to right-in-Virginia for miss-identifying her gender, but my sentiments stand. I will use this forum to try to change hearts and minds and welcome others to lift their candidates up that deserve to be heard - and I refuse to let the media decide our candidate. No, we won't move solid Trump supporters one iota, but I do believe after the next debate or maybe two, we will have a whole new ball game, and trump will no longer be sitting in the top spot.
-
Correction made, and my apologies to right-in-Virginia for miss-identifying her gender, but my sentiments stand. I will use this forum to try to change hearts and minds and welcome others to lift their candidates up that deserve to be heard - and I refuse to let the media decide our candidate. No, we won't move solid Trump supporters one iota, but I do believe after the next debate or maybe two, we will have a whole new ball game, and trump will no longer be sitting in the top spot.
I agree to an extent; but you also need to consider the massive amounts of money both Trump and Bush have. Bush has enough money just to ride it out till just about everyone else throws in the towel because most of the candidates won't have the funds to sustain them all the way to the primaries. Trump has enough money and media attention that he's not going to fall too far out of favor and then we also need to take into consideration he has also mentioned running 3rd party if things don't go his way.
-
When did the conservative movement become anti-business?
When the businesses required slave labor.
-
When the businesses required slave labor.
That is such BS as might have been spewed by Lenin.
-
Right_in_Virgina is female. Let's get that established, here.
The point she and others make is that rather than back a candidate and tell us why, you spend your days and nights posting anti-Trump threads.
And my point is that nothing my good friends Sinkspur or Luis can say to me that would make me change my mind...at this time.
That you've been sucked in by Trump disappoints me deeply, but doesn't surprise me.
This whole damned place is being caught up in the Trumpian fever.
It won't infect me, however, as I am here less and less. Me and mine are focusing elsewhere, in our church and local community. Democrats and Republicans have lost their minds.
So just count me out of this ridiculous process with these ridiculous people.
-
Can anyone recommend an alternative site which does not trust Trump?
-
When did the conservative movement become anti-business?
I missed that memo, too!!
It's probably the only reason left, to be a Republican. That, and their love of our military men and women.
They've always been "free-marketers", which meant, a thriving small-business environment across America.
Now, they've allowed the federal government in charge of our health....let alone, the 'cost' to employer and employee, respectively.
Pro-Business is the LAST flag standing on Republican Hill. The others are bloodied on the ground.
-
Donald Trump fills a void left by the abject refusal of the GOP Washington DC elite to oppose not just Obama, but Progressivism.
The Progressive movement finally led to Obama largely because it was left intellectually unchallenged by a non-opposing "opposition" party whose leaders care more about their own power and control - even the nation's survival. Because the current leaders of the GOP are also Progressives - not conservatives - who they disdain.
Conservatives of all stripes, including Tea Party members, Evangelical Christians and libertarians know they have been sold out and abandoned by those who no longer even bother to hide their contempt for them.
They are frustrated and yes, angry, at what they see happening to the nation they all love, in spite of their own personal disagreements over policy, because this is what unites them - a love of country and a desire for a return to what America used to be: a better place. A better place to start a family. A better place to pursue your dreams.
A better place to live.
And so, the discord, division, frustration, ferment and anger that has been intentionally nourished by Obama and the Progressives so as to create a visible Enemy around which to rally the Democrat Grand Army of the Dependent, has now on the eve of the next national campaign led to the rise of...
Trump.
Really? Honestly?
Well, he's bold. He's unafraid of what people will say about him. He's not a professional politician.
Those are three positives, right there - I'll grant you that.
But what does he truly believe in? Do you know?
What is his vision for the proper role of government in our society? Does he support a return to Constitutional limits to executive and judicial power? What would he do to restore America's defensive military power? How would he deal with a revanchist Russia and an expansionist China? How would he work to oppose the rise of the new Islamic caliphate?
How would he free Americans and their small businesses from the weight of government regulation? How would he reform our tax code and how would he deal with our unsupportable national debt? Would he be willing to lead a fight to stop forced taxpayer funding of abortion, or get the Federal government out of the business of defining who can marry, and leave it up to the states?
I do not know, and from his public pronouncements to date, I cannot really tell, except that he really seems to believe in.... Donald Trump.
Donald Trump has appealed to many because unlike other GOP hopefuls, he seems to understand that America has a serious, realistically dangerous border security problem. That's good, and I applaud him for addressing the issue.
But he seems also to have no serious answers to the problem, pretending that we can simply round up and deport everyone who is already here - rather than prioritizing border security first and the identification and apprehension of dangerous illegals second, and then beginning a discussion of how to make Americans - true Americans - of those who are already here, and want to be here, legally, third.
If he wishes to do so, and be taken seriously, then he'd better begin doing so. Otherwise, he's just a wealthy guy with a big mouth who gets all the media attention for just those two reasons, and also - because he distracts from some other, more experienced, more thoughtful, and better candidates who are not just in it for themselves, but for the America that we once knew, and perhaps can be again.
-
Donald Trump fills a void left by the abject refusal of the GOP Washington DC elite to oppose not just Obama, but Progressivism.
The Progressive movement finally led to Obama largely because it was left intellectually unchallenged by a non-opposing "opposition" party whose leaders care more about their own power and control - even the nation's survival. Because the current leaders of the GOP are also Progressives - not conservatives - who they disdain.
Conservatives of all stripes, including Tea Party members, Evangelical Christians and libertarians know they have been sold out and abandoned by those who no longer even bother to hide their contempt for them.
They are frustrated and yes, angry, at what they see happening to the nation they all love, in spite of their own personal disagreements over policy, because this is what unites them - a love of country and a desire for a return to what America used to be: a better place. A better place to start a family. A better place to pursue your dreams.
A better place to live.
And so, the discord, division, frustration, ferment and anger that has been intentionally nourished by Obama and the Progressives so as to create a visible Enemy around which to rally the Democrat Grand Army of the Dependent, has now on the eve of the next national campaign led to the rise of...
Trump.
Really? Honestly?
Well, he's bold. He's unafraid of what people will say about him. He's not a professional politician.
Those are three positives, right there - I'll grant you that.
But what does he truly believe in? Do you know?
What is his vision for the proper role of government in our society? Does he support a return to Constitutional limits to executive and judicial power? What would he do to restore America's defensive military power? How would he deal with a revanchist Russia and an expansionist China? How would he work to oppose the rise of the new Islamic caliphate?
How would he free Americans and their small businesses from the weight of government regulation? How would he reform our tax code and how would he deal with our unsupportable national debt? Would he be willing to lead a fight to stop forced taxpayer funding of abortion, or get the Federal government out of the business of defining who can marry, and leave it up to the states?
I do not know, and from his public pronouncements to date, I cannot really tell, except that he really seems to believe in.... Donald Trump.
Donald Trump has appealed to many because unlike other GOP hopefuls, he seems to understand that America has a serious, realistically dangerous border security problem. That's good, and I applaud him for addressing the issue.
But he seems also to have no serious answers to the problem, pretending that we can simply round up and deport everyone who is already here - rather than prioritizing border security first and the identification and apprehension of dangerous illegals second, and then beginning a discussion of how to make Americans - true Americans - of those who are already here, and want to be here, legally, third.
If he wishes to do so, and be taken seriously, then he'd better begin doing so. Otherwise, he's just a wealthy guy with a big mouth who gets all the media attention for just those two reasons, and also - because he distracts from some other, more experienced, more thoughtful, and better candidates who are not just in it for themselves, but for the America that we once knew, and perhaps can be again.
Andy you have written a great summation of the problem and I agree with every word you wrote about that but I also believe that before any actual voting begins most people will have come to their senses regarding Trump as the proper vehicle to address the problem.
-
bkepley asks above:
[[ Can anyone recommend an alternative site which does not trust Trump? ]]
Yep.
It's called "the democratic underground", but I figure that's where you came from to get here!
-
bkepley asks above:
[[ Can anyone recommend an alternative site which does not trust Trump? ]]
Yep.
It's called "the democratic underground", but I figure that's where you came from to get here!
Oh here we go again. If you don't trust Trump you are a RINO or a Democrat Troll. Seriously people, is it really the intension to make TBR the bastard child of TOS? I left TOS because of just such arrogance, and intolerance for people supporting any candidate not approved by Jim.
-
Yahoo news is whistling past the graveyard.
Trump draws support from all demographic groups and across the ideological spectrum, from far left to far right and those in between.
Please recall that past Iowa caucuses favored candidates like Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum for heaven's sake. And now they are favoring Trump? So, what's going on?
Trump's candidacy seems to be breaking all traditional GOP rules.
-
Oh here we go again. If you don't trust Trump you are a RINO or a Democrat Troll. Seriously people, is it really the intension to make TBR the bastard child of TOS? I left TOS because of just such arrogance, and intolerance for people supporting any candidate not approved by Jim.
I for one do not believe that anyone who doesn't trust Trump is a RINO or a Democrat troll. Each person has to weigh out in their mind what each candidate brings to the table based on their past actions, current actions and how they would lead as president. Obviously, Trump can connect with voters who are disgusted with the GOP establishment. For me, though I am uncomfortable with several issues surrounding Trump, I would vote for him over Bush. (I realize there are other GOPe candidates, but I don't see them surviving till the primaries). For that matter, I would vote for any other Republican candidate other than Bush.
-
Yahoo news is whistling past the graveyard.
Trump draws support from all demographic groups and across the ideological spectrum, from far left to far right and those in between.
Please recall that past Iowa caucuses favored candidates like Mike Huckabee and Rick Santorum for heaven's sake. And now they are favoring Trump? So, what's going on?
Trump's candidacy seems to be breaking all traditional GOP rules.
You're kidding us right? All Demographics? None of the stories going over this latest poll claim Trump is winning in all demographics.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/iowa-poll-2016-ben-carson-donald-trump-213182
The latest survey showed Carson making inroads on key voting blocs that Trump has been winning in recent polls. Women preferred Carson at 30 percent to 19 percent, while Trump did better with male voters, at 27 percent to 17 percent.
Among those identifying with the tea party, 27 percent pledged their support for Trump, compared to 22 percent for Carson, with Cruz behind with 16 percent. But Carson leads among non-tea-party-affiliated Republicans, taking 25 percent to Trump's 19 percent.
Voters who described themselves as very or somewhat conservative were split between the top two, while moderates and liberals went for Trump at 26 percent, Fiorina at 18 percent and Carson at 17 percent.
Carson leads among evangelical voters, earning 29 percent to Trump's 23 percent, while non-evangelicals backed Trump with 24 percent, followed by Carson at 18 percent and Fiorina at 13 percent.
-
You're kidding us right? All Demographics? None of the stories going over this latest poll claim Trump is winning in all demographics.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/iowa-poll-2016-ben-carson-donald-trump-213182
The latest survey showed Carson making inroads on key voting blocs that Trump has been winning in recent polls. Women preferred Carson at 30 percent to 19 percent, while Trump did better with male voters, at 27 percent to 17 percent.
Among those identifying with the tea party, 27 percent pledged their support for Trump, compared to 22 percent for Carson, with Cruz behind with 16 percent. But Carson leads among non-tea-party-affiliated Republicans, taking 25 percent to Trump's 19 percent.
Voters who described themselves as very or somewhat conservative were split between the top two, while moderates and liberals went for Trump at 26 percent, Fiorina at 18 percent and Carson at 17 percent.
Carson leads among evangelical voters, earning 29 percent to Trump's 23 percent, while non-evangelicals backed Trump with 24 percent, followed by Carson at 18 percent and Fiorina at 13 percent.
No, no, no. I said Trump "draws support from" not "winning all." Don't misquote me.
-
No, no, no. I said Trump "draws support from" not "winning all." Don't misquote me.
Well then that applies to all of the candidates. I think if you examine the polls each candidate can claim some numbers from each category mentioned.
-
Well then that applies to all of the candidates. I think if you examine the polls each candidate can claim some numbers from each category mentioned.
Remember, I also included ideological spectrum, too. I know of Democrats, Independents, and Republicans that support Trump. Making Trump's potential voter pool rather large.
-
Oh here we go again. If you don't trust Trump you are a RINO or a Democrat Troll. Seriously people, is it really the intension to make TBR the bastard child of TOS? I left TOS because of just such arrogance, and intolerance for people supporting any candidate not approved by Jim.
As someone who believes Trump is the perfect wrecking ball for the status quo, I'm none too thrilled by those in the bow -tied pontification brigade who consider Trump to be too low-brow and loud-mouthed to be an effective political player. If it weren't for Trump and his ilk, they would be working in an office, spouting off about this piffle or that.
Oh, actually, they wouldn't, they would continue the suck the life out of Joe SixPack, cent-by-cent gratis the confiscatory tax policy they claim to abhor or penny a word shouting against the killing of the unborn.
-
You're kidding us right? All Demographics? None of the stories going over this latest poll claim Trump is winning in all demographics.
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/iowa-poll-2016-ben-carson-donald-trump-213182
The latest survey showed Carson making inroads on key voting blocs that Trump has been winning in recent polls. Women preferred Carson at 30 percent to 19 percent, while Trump did better with male voters, at 27 percent to 17 percent.
Among those identifying with the tea party, 27 percent pledged their support for Trump, compared to 22 percent for Carson, with Cruz behind with 16 percent. But Carson leads among non-tea-party-affiliated Republicans, taking 25 percent to Trump's 19 percent.
Voters who described themselves as very or somewhat conservative were split between the top two, while moderates and liberals went for Trump at 26 percent, Fiorina at 18 percent and Carson at 17 percent.
Carson leads among evangelical voters, earning 29 percent to Trump's 23 percent, while non-evangelicals backed Trump with 24 percent, followed by Carson at 18 percent and Fiorina at 13 percent.
Anti-Trumpers, ask yourself this: Who are the top three candidates coming out of this latest Monmouth university Iowa poll? Carson, Trump, Fiorina. All three, political outsiders.
The GOP needs to be afraid, be very afraid.