The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on January 24, 2023, 02:44:36 pm
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Here’s what you need to know about the GOP bill to abolish the tax code
by Tobias Burns - 01/24/23 6:00 AM ET
House conservatives are breathing new life into an old proposal to do away with income taxes, payroll taxes, estate taxes and even the IRS itself in favor of a supersized sales tax that would account for nearly all government revenues.
Versions of the far-reaching plan have been around for decades, and with Democrats controlling both the White House and Senate, the proposal has little chance of making it into law. But frustration over the $80 billion funding boost for the IRS passed by Democrats last year has Republicans wanting to make bold statements about changing the tax code — including scrapping it altogether.
The Fair Tax Act introduced by Rep. Buddy Carter (R-Ga.) and supported by 30 other Republicans would institute a massive 30 percent sales tax on all purchases in exchange for doing away with income, Social Security and Medicare taxes.
That means workers would get to keep the entirety of their paychecks without having to pay out anything to the government. But it also means that buying everything from groceries to automobiles would be hugely more expensive.
more
https://thehill.com/policy/finance/3821761-heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-gop-bill-to-abolish-the-tax-code/
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Well, they managed to get through 2 full paragraphs before the lies started.
The MAXIMUM tax rate is 23% and only those here illegally would ever pay at that rate!
https://mr.cdn.ignitecdn.com/client_assets/fairtaxorg/media/attachments/56c4/aea2/6970/2d06/a71c/0000/56c4aea269702d06a71c0000.pdf?1455730338
https://mr.cdn.ignitecdn.com/client_assets/fairtaxorg/media/attachments/56c4/aedf/6970/2d1c/f609/0000/56c4aedf69702d1cf6090000.pdf?1455730399
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:mauslaff:
The advantage to higher earners is so pronounced that the legislation includes a “prebate,” a cash transfer program in which taxpayers get regular checks equal to the amount that people at the poverty level would owe in taxes.
So what is the difference between that prebate and the universal basic income that so many so-called conservatives love to hate?
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That means workers would get to keep the entirety of their paychecks without having to pay out anything to the government. But it also means that buying everything from groceries to automobiles would be hugely more expensive.
A consumption tax would be the best way to reduce govt control over our lives. It would need to be anchored to a constitutional amendment ending any tax on income. If this were to happen savings would dramatically increase and cost of items being purchased would reflect the savings the businesses saw in producing the products being sold.
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Yea, I'd get to keep the entirety of my paycheck, so long as I didn't have to buy or barter for anything.
30% is steep.
Opening a new tax revenue stream to the Fed Gov't is not a good idea.
Cut Government spending and lower the effective payroll tax rate (income+fica+medicare) to equal the corporate tax rate or the capital gains tax rate.
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That means workers would get to keep the entirety of their paychecks without having to pay out anything to the government. But it also means that buying everything from groceries to automobiles would be hugely more expensive.
A consumption tax would be the best way to reduce govt control over our lives. It would need to be anchored to a constitutional amendment ending any tax on income. If this were to happen savings would dramatically increase and cost of items being purchased would reflect the savings the businesses saw in producing the products being sold.
Ever wonder what would happen to our economy if anyone could start or expand a business without having to spend even one second considering the tax implications of the move?
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Yea, I'd get to keep the entirety of my paycheck, so long as I didn't have to buy or barter for anything.
30% is steep.
Opening a new tax revenue stream to the Fed Gov't is not a good idea.
Cut Government spending and lower the effective payroll tax rate (income+fica+medicare) to equal the corporate tax rate or the capital gains tax rate.
Hear here!
The FairTax would not increase revenue, but current law (PAGO) requires tax legislation to match current revenue.
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Ever wonder what would happen to our economy if anyone could start or expand a business without having to spend even one second considering the tax implications of the move?
You mean the typical business startup doesn't consider state tax issues, like state sales taxes, gross receipts taxes, and etc?
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I could hire more people, but, if my business was to purchase input to sell a value added product, I'd be at a disadvantage to foreign competitors.
I'd have to pay 30% tax on each of my input goods and services whereas a foreign competitor would only have to charge 30% for a finished product.
If I managed supply chains, it would be more cost advantageous to me to purchase from overseas than manufacture in the US. I'd build my baby formula factory in Ireland. I'd build my pharmaceutical plant in India. I'd build my microchip fabrication factory in Taiwan. I'd build my auto manufacturing plant in Mexico.
Meanwhile, hedge fund managers still pay 0% on Carried Interest.
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I could hire more people, but, if my business was to purchase input to sell a value added product, I'd be at a disadvantage to foreign competitors.
I'd have to pay 30% tax on each of my input goods and services whereas a foreign competitor would only have to charge 30% for a finished product.
If I managed supply chains, it would be more cost advantageous to me to purchase from overseas than manufacture in the US. I'd build my baby formula factory in Ireland. I'd build my pharmaceutical plant in India. I'd build my microchip fabrication factory in Taiwan. I'd build my auto manufacturing plant in Mexico.
Meanwhile, hedge fund managers still pay 0% on Carried Interest.
If it were to operate like a standard state sales and use tax, then you may, or may not, be paying sales tax on your inputs. Many state sales tax systems use the so-called resale exemption system to minimize pyramiding on inputs. It's not perfect, and it takes a fair amount of time to do compliance if, like most state sales tax systems, there is a complex system of things that are taxable and things that are not, for one reason or another, but it is intended to reduce the amount of pyramiding.
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I could hire more people, but, if my business was to purchase input to sell a value added product, I'd be at a disadvantage to foreign competitors.
Which is exactly where you are today due to the corporate income tax and ALL the costs of compliance associated with it even if you have no actual tax liability.
I'd have to pay 30% tax on each of my input goods and services whereas a foreign competitor would only have to charge 30% for a finished product.
Not under the Fairtax! It's only collected on NEW goods and services at the RETAIL level. What you mentioned is exactly what happens with anything produced in this country under the current Marxist INCOME tax scheme.
Comparing Average and Marginal Tax Rates
under the
FairTax and the Current System of Federal Taxation (https://mr.cdn.ignitecdn.com/client_assets/fairtaxorg/media/attachments/56c4/af46/6970/2d22/4c57/0000/56c4af4669702d224c570000.pdf?1455730502)
The FairTax and the federal income tax:
A comparative analysis (https://mr.cdn.ignitecdn.com/client_assets/fairtaxorg/media/attachments/56c4/afbe/6970/2d1c/f60b/0000/56c4afbe69702d1cf60b0000.pdf?1455730621)
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Ain't it fun to make proposals like this, when you know the chances of them ever becoming reality are less than zero?
Why, one could do it all day...!
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It would be useful if those people trying to foist a national retail sales tax on the country actually had some real experience in the trenches dealing with actual sales tax issues.
It's not nearly as simple, efficient, or inexpensive as they make it out to be. And it certainly won't result in the complete closure of the Internal Revenue Service.
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It would be useful if those people trying to foist a national retail sales tax on the country actually had some real experience in the trenches dealing with actual sales tax issues.
There are millions with lots of experience in the trenches dealing with the Marxist income tax.
It's not nearly as simple, efficient, or inexpensive as they make it out to be. And it certainly won't result in the complete closure of the Internal Revenue Service.
45 of 50 states currently have a sales tax and I'm not aware of anything like the problems we find with the Marxist income tax.
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I tend to prefer this idea to the flat income tax, but they need to somehow strike the 16th amendment, or we will eventually end up with BOTH a national sales tax and an income tax. However, either the Fair Tax or the Flat Income Tax would be superior to what we have now.
Since nearly a quarter of federal spending comes from monetizing the debt, The most important thing is to rein in spending.
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I tend to prefer this idea to the flat income tax, but they need to somehow strike the 16th amendment, or we will eventually end up with BOTH a national sales tax and an income tax. However, either the Fair Tax or the Flat Income Tax would be superior to what we have now.
Since nearly a quarter of federal spending comes from monetizing the debt, The most important thing is to rein in spending.
I hate to be the one to tell you this @massadvj but that is exactly what you have right now.
I agree with you on the spending but getting control of that is near impossible when more than half the country perceive that they don't pay taxes.
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There are millions with lots of experience in the trenches dealing with the Marxist income tax.
45 of 50 states currently have a sales tax and I'm not aware of anything like the problems we find with the Marxist income tax.
Then you have little or no real experience with sales tax, other than paying it when it shows up on the cash register.
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Then you have little or no real experience with sales tax, other than paying it when it shows up on the cash register.
You have no clue as to what I do or don't have experience with @Kamaji but I will freely admit that my line of work does not depend on the existence of any particular tax system.
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Ever wonder what would happen to our economy if anyone could start or expand a business without having to spend even one second considering the tax implications of the move?
The opportunities would be boundless. The only questions the business person would have to figure out would be where to get the additional people and whether the business could grab a greater market share.
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You mean the typical business startup doesn't consider state tax issues, like state sales taxes, gross receipts taxes, and etc?
Among the worst things a business has to deal with are depreciation schedules.
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To think our Govt, 60 years after the fact, still protects the Tax returns of Ruth Payne, the lady that got Lee Oswald the job at the Texas School Depository and he left her house that faithful morning, yet demands and releases Trump's returns is just unreal to me.
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I hate to be the one to tell you this @massadvj but that is exactly what you have right now.
I agree with you on the spending but getting control of that is near impossible when more than half the country perceive that they don't pay taxes.
@Bigun
I assume you mean inflation is a tax. As usual, you are absolutely right.
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Among the worst things a business has to deal with are depreciation schedules.
Not really.
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You have no clue as to what I do or don't have experience with @Kamaji but I will freely admit that my line of work does not depend on the existence of any particular tax system.
I don’t have direct knowledge - of course - but I can infer a lot from the things you post, and as your response indicates, my inference in this regard was spot on.
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@Bigun
I assume you mean inflation is a tax. As usual, you are absolutely right.
But wait! There's more! More than half of the country either does not pay income tax, or have their taxes offset (or more) via social programs (welfare, child tax credits, etc).
Since they have no direct filings, they might have the impression that the federal government costs them nothing, or offers them a direct gain... Meanwhile a myriad of federal taxes are paid by them along with everyone else in a plethora of 'hidden' taxes -
Fuel taxes being a prime example, that is taxed exponentially across the whole energy landscape, and not just at the retail pump... Fuel is taxed in the machinery digging the fuel out of the ground, in the trucks that ship it to the refinery, in the trucks that ship it from the refinery into general distribution, which covers who knows how many more transportation episodes. An easy third of every gallon in the production system is uncle's rake, not including the direct tax at the retail end. How many more instances exist similar to the tax on fuel?
That on top of the inflation point already well made.
@massadvj @Bigun
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But wait! There's more! More than half of the country either does not pay income tax, or have their taxes offset (or more) via social programs (welfare, child tax credits, etc).
Since they have no direct filings, they might have the impression that the federal government costs them nothing, or offers them a direct gain... Meanwhile a myriad of federal taxes are paid by them along with everyone else in a plethora of 'hidden' taxes -
Fuel taxes being a prime example, that is taxed exponentially across the whole energy landscape, and not just at the retail pump... Fuel is taxed in the machinery digging the fuel out of the ground, in the trucks that ship it to the refinery, in the trucks that ship it from the refinery into general distribution, which covers who knows how many more transportation episodes. An easy third of every gallon in the production system is uncle's rake, not including the direct tax at the retail end. How many more instances exist similar to the tax on fuel?
That on top of the inflation point already well made.
@massadvj @Bigun
That's all correct @roamer_1 and you can add to those hidden taxes the corporate income tax and all the costs of compliance (those compliance costs often far exceed actual tax liability) which cascade into the price of everything produced in this country and is not border adjustable thus putting our goods at a price disadvantage in world markets before they leave the factory.
The truth of the matter is that no one can tell you how much they pay in taxes under the current system because that number is not calculatable.
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That's all correct @roamer_1 and you can add to those hidden taxes the corporate income tax and all the costs of compliance (those compliance costs often far exceed actual tax liability) which cascade into the price of everything produced in this country and is not border adjustable thus putting our goods at a price disadvantage in world markets before they leave the factory.
That's right @Bigun ... And Uncle Guido gets the vig, whether you make a profit or not.
The truth of the matter is that no one can tell you how much they pay in taxes under the current system because that number is not calculatable.[/size]
Right again... It is so exponential across stages, and so baked in, I doubt it is even figured in federal budgets. Certainly you or I could not approach it.
But the emphasis should be on those who think the government is not harming them - Or who even think the government is their benefactor - I doubt very much that they would be so inclined if all that baked in cost could be calculated.
And that is why I have always been *FOR* a retail only flat tax. Foremost, it is transparent - *NOT* baked in - so the real cost of government can be seen in every purchase. But also because it protects the costs of production and manufacturing from those baked-in taxes, causing cost increases that the production costs can never really afford.
And lastly, because it ties government directly to the retail market - Suddenly it is in the government's interest to keep the economic engine running full bore - Uncle still gets his vig, but it is taken only from the profit and at the end. That is a very important aspect.
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That's right @Bigun ... And Uncle Guido gets the vig, whether you make a profit or not.
Right again... It is so exponential across stages, and so baked in, I doubt it is even figured in federal budgets. Certainly you or I could not approach it.
But the emphasis should be on those who think the government is not harming them - Or who even think the government is their benefactor - I doubt very much that they would be so inclined if all that baked in cost could be calculated.
And that is why I have always been *FOR* a retail only flat tax. Foremost, it is transparent - *NOT* baked in - so the real cost of government can be seen in every purchase. But also because it protects the costs of production and manufacturing from those baked-in taxes, causing cost increases that the production costs can never really afford.
And lastly, because it ties government directly to the retail market - Suddenly it is in the government's interest to keep the economic engine running full bore - Uncle still gets his vig, but it is taken only from the profit and at the end. That is a very important aspect.
@roamer_1 Only when every American can readily discern what all this government is really costing them will we have the possibility of beginning to rein it in. Not before!
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@roamer_1 Only when every American can readily discern what all this government is really costing them will we have the possibility of beginning to rein it in. Not before!
@Bigun
That's right. :beer:
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McCarthy knocks bill to abolish IRS he promised GOP rebels a hearing on
by Ryan King, Breaking News Reporter
January 25, 2023 02:06 PM
House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) disavowed a national sales tax measure called the Fair Tax Act that he promised Republicans rebels his Congress would hold a hearing on.
Under the proposal, Congress would abolish the IRS and replace the federal income tax with a national 30% sales tax. McCarthy guaranteed that the measure would receive a hearing, but that may not necessarily mean it will get a vote on the House floor, Axios reported. A growing chorus of Republicans voiced unease at the legislation.
"No," McCarthy replied tersely when asked if he backed the measure Tuesday.
<..snip..>
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house/mccarthy-knocks-national-sales-tax-promised-gop-vote (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/house/mccarthy-knocks-national-sales-tax-promised-gop-vote)