The Briefing Room
State Chapters => Texas => Topic started by: Elderberry on December 19, 2022, 01:11:03 pm
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San Antonio Express by James Osborne, Diego Mendoza-Moyers 12/17/2022
Why are electric vehicles sales lagging in Texas? Maybe range anxiety, advocates and dealers say
Inside the Ancira Kia dealership on the Northwest Side, adorned with giant red and green Christmas bows, a few models of the South Korean automaker’s electric vehicles sat alongside their gas-powered counterparts on a recent afternoon.
But as boxy Kia Souls pulled in and out of the dealership’s parking lot on Bandera Road, customers weren’t looking much at the electric vehicles, such as the EV6 Wind. While car shoppers often ask about EVs, as they’re called, they mostly choose hybrid vehicles instead, said John Paul Rivera, a sales manager at the Kia dealership.
“There’s definitely a lot of hype, a lot of interest” around EVs, Rivera said. “People still love their trucks, SUVs. The other thing too is (EVs) are really expensive. Not everyone can buy a $50,000 car.”
So far this year, electric vehicles represent almost 7 percent of all U.S. car sales, more than double the rate two years ago, as motorists in California and along the East Coast rush to pick up one of the multitude of new electric offerings from automakers such as Ford and Tesla.
But in Texas and other states in the middle of the country, the market isn’t quite so charged. In 2022, just 4.3 percent of cars sold in Texas have been electric models, compared with 19 percent in California, according to data firm Atlas Public Policy.
More: https://www.expressnews.com/sa-inc/article/electric-vehicles-sales-lagging-Texas-17659988.php (https://www.expressnews.com/sa-inc/article/electric-vehicles-sales-lagging-Texas-17659988.php)
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Dealers in Texas already are hearing concerns from electric pickup truck customers that hauling trailers or boats will reduce the distance EVs can travel on a charge, he said.
“The average user buys them because they look cool. They’re not hauling hay,” Whitehurst said. “But people that hear stories, like if you run your AC or heater it’ll deplete your battery, they’ll think twice.”
I don't know about "Average User", but living in the city I do see pickups that I just know the owners would never take their "baby" offroad. Or even scratch-up the bed by hauling anything.
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Why are electric vehicles sales lagging in Texas?
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/c82Vhz6-5QL3hQc41-05l9p2MzIepnnznerz93z_8dA/rs:fit:403:273:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pLnBp/bmltZy5jb20vb3Jp/Z2luYWxzL2Y4Lzhi/L2UyL2Y4OGJlMjdi/NDdlODgwNzRkNjVj/MGRiNTQ2NTkwYTkw/LmpwZw)
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Might also be the millions whose livelyhoods depend on energy jobs direct and indirect.
These crappy EV's are a direct threat, and they know it. Why support shit that might take your job?
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(https://imgs.search.brave.com/c82Vhz6-5QL3hQc41-05l9p2MzIepnnznerz93z_8dA/rs:fit:403:273:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9pLnBp/bmltZy5jb20vb3Jp/Z2luYWxzL2Y4Lzhi/L2UyL2Y4OGJlMjdi/NDdlODgwNzRkNjVj/MGRiNTQ2NTkwYTkw/LmpwZw)
:beer:
Orange, Texas, U.S.A. Live 30-40 miles from that sign.
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Well, it isn't just Texas...
Electric vehicles now make up about 0.44% of all light-duty vehicle sales in North Dakota, but are forecast to reach 3% by 2030, 7% to 9% by 2035, 12% to 16% by 2040 and 18% to 25% by 2045, according to state estimates.
And those would likely be all city folks who would use them around town, with something else for intercity travel and winter driving.
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What the heck good is a car that can get you only 100 miles from where you were? :silly:
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Even in Iowa, going corner to corner is beyond the range of EV's in one charge.
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It surprises me that it's as high as 4.3%. Can you imagine a trip from The Woodlands (North Houston) to Galveston in the summer?? 80 miles 1 way! Hmm ... how many charging stations does Galveston have? :shrug:
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And remember that 1 full charge isn’t necessarily cheaper than 1 full tank.
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They might be ok in an urban area where there isn't a lot of mileage involved. But, of course, the first time the folks can't drive due to being unable to charge their cars...Katy bar the door!
Rural areas...fuggetabout it.
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What the heck good is a car that can get you only 100 miles from where you were? :silly:
Can you imgaine being In ND on I-80 in a blizzard hoping your EV battery holds out?
Stupid greenie envirowhackos just don't think things through, and society suffers.
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Can you imagine a trip from The Woodlands (North Houston) to Galveston in the summer?? 80 miles 1 way!
That's a 4-hr drive in Houston.
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Can you imgaine being In ND on I-80 in a blizzard hoping your EV battery holds out?
Stupid greenie envirowhackos just don't think things through, and society suffers.
That is what is concerning and maddening. Things have not been thought through.
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That's a 4-hr drive in Houston.
Not yet. It's still less than 2 hrs.
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Not yet. It's still less than 2 hrs.
Back in the early '90's it was pretty close with all that Gulf Freeway construction... at least 3 hours... Houston to Galveston.
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I've seen a few commercials with someone plugging in an EV in the snow ... I have to chuckle. EV's don't do so well with moisture and water; they tend to catch fire. Snow melts. :laugh:
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Even in Iowa, going corner to corner is beyond the range of EV's in one charge.
In North Dakota, especially in winter, and especially with a headwind, you are unlikely to make it from one major town to the next on a single charge, even in the East, where they are closer together.
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"Range Anxiety?" Are You ****ing kidding me???
Now not buying an electric car because it won't get you to where you need to go is a mental illness. I'm surprised they don't call it "DistancePhobia."
A trip from Dallas to the Capital of TX will wipe out a charge.
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I've seen a few commercials with someone plugging in an EV in the snow ... I have to chuckle. EV's don't do so well with moisture and water; they tend to catch fire. Snow melts. :laugh:
They know better than to broadcast that crap in these parts....LOL....
"What is this snow, of which you speak?"
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They know better than to broadcast that crap in these parts....LOL....
"What is this snow, of which you speak?"
Right. I'm not sure why they advertise commercials with snow around here. Maybe for the snowbirds that come down to visit. :shrug:
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Right. I'm not sure why they advertise commercials with snow around here. Maybe for the snowbirds that come down to visit. :shrug:
I looked up annual weather stats for my town, and BHC gets snowfall like 0.01 inches per year.
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They know better than to broadcast that crap in these parts....LOL....
"What is this snow, of which you speak?"
I'd send you a box (running out of places to pile it), but they'll just mess it up in shipping.
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I'd send you a box (running out of places to pile it), but they'll just mess it up in shipping.
UPS would dehydrate it....
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IMO with removable batteries, EV's would be unstoppable. Think of gas powered equipment vs. battery powered equipment. Battery works with basically as much power (debatable, yes), and you can just throw more batteries at it if you're worried. Keep a few in the trunk. Plus no futzing around with oil changes and maintenance.
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In North Dakota, especially in winter, and especially with a headwind, you are unlikely to make it from one major town to the next on a single charge, even in the East, where they are closer together.
You could if you don't use your headlights, radio, or heater.
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IMO with removable batteries, EV's would be unstoppable. Think of gas powered equipment vs. battery powered equipment. Battery works with basically as much power (debatable, yes), and you can just throw more batteries at it if you're worried. Keep a few in the trunk. Plus no futzing around with oil changes and maintenance.
Sounds easy.
But its not so simple.
How much does a Tesla battery weigh?
Tesla batteries weigh a surprising amount, especially compared to the battery in an internal combustion engine vehicle. But as the main component of Tesla’s powertrain, perhaps the battery size shouldn’t come as a surprise. Either way, here’s how much Tesla batteries weigh by model:
• Tesla Model 3: 1,060 pounds
• Tesla Model X: 1,183 pounds
• Tesla Model S: 1,200 pounds
• Tesla Model Y: 1,700 pounds
How Many Batteries Does A Tesla Have? (18650 Cells)
In a Tesla Model S
If you’re wondering how many batteries are in a Tesla Model S, the answer is 7104 cells of type 18650. The Tesla Model S is known for its impressive range and performance, thanks to its large battery pack. With 16 modules, this car has one of the biggest packs on the market. And with 7104 cells, it has plenty of juice to power its electric motors.
In a Tesla Model S Plaid
The Tesla Model S Plaid is one of the most impressive cars today. Thanks to its cutting-edge battery pack, it has an amazing range and performance. The Model S Plaid uses the same 18650 battery cells in 4680 quantities to achieve its incredible range and performance. The Tesla Model S Plaid has 250 kilowatts of battery power thanks to the extra space added to the battery back.
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IMO with removable batteries, EV's would be unstoppable. Think of gas powered equipment vs. battery powered equipment. Battery works with basically as much power (debatable, yes), and you can just throw more batteries at it if you're worried. Keep a few in the trunk. Plus no futzing around with oil changes and maintenance.
The hallmark of that thinking is probably construction and mechanic tools.
I've been in batt gear for a long time now... My original 9v Makita was barely functional... but I kept it around for drilling pilot holes in wood so I wouldn't have to change bits. Now, nearly every power tool you can think of I own as battery operated.
Now... I like em. And for the most part, they're good. But if I am screwing off a whole house in sheetrock, I will still be on a cord. I may mount the sheets with a battery...but the big job, the batts just ain't as good, and I don't care how many batteries you use.
Big tools are still corded too... I am a very long way away from a bat powered chop saw or contractor's table saw... even though they are out there.
BUT IN THIS CASE... The market governed demand. The products gained their chops on their own... and proved themselves on their own.
FORCING the product, not to mention the entire industry, is going to be a dire mistake,
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IMO with removable batteries, EV's would be unstoppable. Think of gas powered equipment vs. battery powered equipment. Battery works with basically as much power (debatable, yes), and you can just throw more batteries at it if you're worried. Keep a few in the trunk. Plus no futzing around with oil changes and maintenance.
A tank of sodium borohydride and a hydrogen fuel cell would be far easier to manage.
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A tank of sodium borohydride and a hydrogen fuel cell would be far easier to manage.
He ain't wrong though. If the 'fuel cell' was a cartridge, you would basically be renting the fuel cell... Turn it in when it is empty and plug in a fully charged one, and on your way..... Sure beats the charge time problem, and eventually distance issues too.
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I've converted lots of cordless tools to corded. I could get as many cordless tools as I wanted for free as their batteries had died. The first I converted was a cordless screwdriver that ran on 2 C or D? cells. I ran it on a 12v gel cell in a fanny pack to help a coworker put a metal roof on his new barn. It screwed in those self tapping screws lightning fast.
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He ain't wrong though. If the 'fuel cell' was a cartridge, you would basically be renting the fuel cell... Turn it in when it is empty and plug in a fully charged one, and on your way..... Sure beats the charge time problem, and eventually distance issues too.
That's how they did it in the Fifth Element.
(https://imgs.search.brave.com/KPHs9Q84d-adVVzxqv4VlstBwbZbHM8ktYq9mxKP1i8/rs:fit:1117:225:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly90c2Uz/Lm1tLmJpbmcubmV0/L3RoP2lkPU9JUC5o/RkY4cTY0NWJheGhj/UFZDN0xkc1V3SGFE/SiZwaWQ9QXBp)
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I've converted lots of cordless tools to corded. I could get as many cordless tools as I wanted for free as their batteries had died. The first I converted was a cordless screwdriver that ran on 2 C or D? cells. I ran it on a 12v gel cell in a fanny pack to help a coworker put a metal roof on his new barn. It screwed in those self tapping screws lightning fast.
I am still on cords in mechanics... but the batteries are making inroads there too... My pneumatic blip gun (3/8) will likely fall to battery. Trouble lights will certainly go battery.
Though I predict my 1/2", 3/4", and 1" drive stuff will be pneumatic till I die. As will the little 1/4" hex drive Rodac screw driver on a coily hose that lives on my bench.
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A tank of sodium borohydride and a hydrogen fuel cell would be far easier to manage.
It would sure depend on what the high volume price would be for the sodium borohydride and the catalyst would be.
I see that even Amazon currently sells the hydride: 1000g/$145.99
https://www.amazon.com/1000g-Sodium-Borohydride-16940-66-2-NaBH4/dp/B09JVSNT4Q (https://www.amazon.com/1000g-Sodium-Borohydride-16940-66-2-NaBH4/dp/B09JVSNT4Q)
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I am still on cords in mechanics... but the batteries are making inroads there too... My pneumatic blip gun (3/8) will likely fall to battery. Trouble lights will certainly go battery.
Though I predict my 1/2", 3/4", and 1" drive stuff will be pneumatic till I die. As will the little 1/4" hex drive Rodac screw driver on a coily hose that lives on my bench.
My big tools are all pneumatic too. My favorite air tool is my lil Jet die grinder.
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My big tools are all pneumatic too. My favorite air tool is my lil Jet die grinder.
That little Rodac has been rebuilt by my hand (restoration quality) three times. My uncle John had it before me... gave it to me busted, and I fixed it. It is so well worn that I can't imagine another.
That 3/8 blip is hard to get rid of too... It has about a 30 degree head, and a paddle trigger... Even with a hose it gets into spots better than 90 degree stuff. And I don't like that honkin battery hanging off the end either... Not going to get where that one does... But it is coming... Just too easy, 90% of the time, not having to drag a hose around.
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I'm still pissed that "advocates" are blaming "range anxiety." I am tired of being told that I have a mental illness if I oppose them.
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It would sure depend on what the high volume price would be for the sodium borohydride and the catalyst would be.
I see that even Amazon currently sells the hydride: 1000g/$145.99
https://www.amazon.com/1000g-Sodium-Borohydride-16940-66-2-NaBH4/dp/B09JVSNT4Q (https://www.amazon.com/1000g-Sodium-Borohydride-16940-66-2-NaBH4/dp/B09JVSNT4Q)
That's lab grade. Commercial would be much less expensive. Here it is for less than $6/lb:
https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/sodium-borohydride-cas-number-16940-66-2-21853503530.html
And then there is economies of scale. You will see a considerable cost drop once more manufacturers come online. There will be a hefty recycle business as sodium metaborate is converted back into sodium borohydride.
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UPS would dehydrate it....
But then you would just have to add water... :shrug:
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You could if you don't use your headlights, radio, or heater.
It's 16 below zero outside (static air, not wind chill).
No heater, and in short order you would not be able to see where you are going (ice buildup from the moisture in your breath on the inside of the windshield).
Defrosters in internal combustion engine powered vehicles use waste heat from the engine and electricity to defrost windows and maintain a livable cabin temperature. I have driven in winter in vehicles whose heaters were insufficient. In the first 50 miles, a liter of tonic water sitting beside me froze solid. By the 100 mile mark, I was getting hypothermic, even though I was dressed fairly well for the weather. If I had had a flat or vehicle trouble, I would have been in a real and possibly life-threatening bind.
It is dark 16 hours per day in mid winter at this latitude (48 degrees+ N), midcontinent climate (about 80 miles west of the geographical center of North America--70 miles south of Saskatchewan). Headlights not only make you easier to see (white fleet vehicles against a snow covered background), but are needed if you are going far. Eight hours of daylight and your travel options will be very limited.
Here, electric vehicles are just not suitable for winter unless for very limited travel in town. They are not something I would stake my life on.
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Sounds easy.
But its not so simple.
Absolutely. But not so simple, IMHO, doesn't necessarily mean impossible. We can designs jacks and things to life way heavier stuff like cars and trucks, so 1000 pound batteries may be conceivable. Hard to imagine sure, but not impossible.
Call me crazy. :D
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Sales are lagging because no one wants the damned things! Even with the incentives!
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Sales are lagging because no one wants the damned things! Even with the incentives!
Especially in a large place like Texas!
But who are we? We're mentally ill because we have "range anxiety!"
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The hallmark of that thinking is probably construction and mechanic tools.
I've been in batt gear for a long time now... My original 9v Makita was barely functional... but I kept it around for drilling pilot holes in wood so I wouldn't have to change bits. Now, nearly every power tool you can think of I own as battery operated.
Now... I like em. And for the most part, they're good. But if I am screwing off a whole house in sheetrock, I will still be on a cord. I may mount the sheets with a battery...but the big job, the batts just ain't as good, and I don't care how many batteries you use.
Big tools are still corded too... I am a very long way away from a bat powered chop saw or contractor's table saw... even though they are out there.
BUT IN THIS CASE... The market governed demand. The products gained their chops on their own... and proved themselves on their own.
FORCING the product, not to mention the entire industry, is going to be a dire mistake,
I just replaced my dewalt drill and impact and got a free reciprocating saw. The reciprocating saw is FANTASTIC! We still volunteer building tiny houses for families to stay in for free who have relatives in the hospital. I use that reciprocating saw all of the time and love it. The one thing you have to remember though is that it always has power...lol. When I sat it in the backseat of my truck and something hit the trigger it cut a hole in my seat cover protector. Now I remove the battery before putting it up...lolololol. @roamer_1
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Electric vehicles are best for flat, congested areas for short distances ... like last mile delivery fleets.
I assume that Fake Meat sales are also lagging in Texas compared to liberal Dem cities.
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It's 16 below zero outside (static air, not wind chill).
No heater, and in short order you would not be able to see where you are going (ice buildup from the moisture in your breath on the inside of the windshield).
Defrosters in internal combustion engine powered vehicles use waste heat from the engine and electricity to defrost windows and maintain a livable cabin temperature. . .
Thanks for reminding me. Can't use your wipers or rear window defroster either.
It is dark 16 hours per day in mid winter at this latitude (48 degrees+ N), midcontinent climate (about 80 miles west of the geographical center of North America--70 miles south of Saskatchewan). Headlights not only make you easier to see (white fleet vehicles against a snow covered background), but are needed if you are going far. Eight hours of daylight and your travel options will be very limited.
Here, electric vehicles are just not suitable for winter unless for very limited travel in town. They are not something I would stake my life on.
No left-wing bureaucrat living in Bethesda and working in NW is going to have any understanding of life in suburban Minot. Liberals take their derived solutions for their own unique personal problems (regardless of cost) and force those solutions on everyone else, totally oblivious of the fact that their problems aren't shared by others. If a heavily subsidized electric vehicle will get them a six mile drive down Georgetown road, then everyone should be forced to get one.
As you so clearly illustrated, an electric vehicle equates to death in North Dakota. And Beltway liberals don't care.
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One night after work my car heater quit in the parking lot. It was around zero. At that time work was about a 10 mile drive.
Thankfully I was dressed though I still nearly froze. I was breathing into my coat and still had to pull over and scrape the inside and outside of the windows twice.
You'd be surprised how far you don't get without heat.
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I just replaced my dewalt drill and impact and got a free reciprocating saw. The reciprocating saw is FANTASTIC! We still volunteer building tiny houses for families to stay in for free who have relatives in the hospital. I use that reciprocating saw all of the time and love it. The one thing you have to remember though is that it always has power...lol. When I sat it in the backseat of my truck and something hit the trigger it cut a hole in my seat cover protector. Now I remove the battery before putting it up...lolololol. @roamer_1
@mrpotatohead
YEP... I am a Ryobi guy, stem to stern... Though that is mainly construction stuff... I may be going Milwaukee out in the shop - I don't really want to serve two battery platforms, but those Milwaukee rattle guns particularly, and their whole line are sworn by and all others are sworn at. So I have that decision coming soon. I can justify it - the shop stuff would be entirely separate from the rest - never the twain shall meet...
But Ryobi has been good to me, and true to their promise pretty much that their commitment to form factor and battery would be foremost - Every tool I have will take any battery I have, which is what sold me in that direction ... I had a terrible experience with Makita in that way. So I would not be against giving Ryobi the benefit of the doubt... My but I do wander off...
All that aside, I too have (Ryobi's) reciprocating saw... And It is probably the tool that sold me on batts. Really. I am on my second one, and I use the heck out of em. It was the first tool that was truly better cordless, easier to use and getting into harder places than it's corded contemporary. My drill and impact drill are probably still the most used, but that little sawzall is right up there.
And I too have learned the lesson about always taking the battery out when not in use. Had to replace a tray in my sawbox finding that out... That was the reciprocating saw for me too. happy77
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@mrpotatohead
Another one that might surprise you.... That silly little skilsaw Ryobi makes. It made me giggle when I first saw it... Stupid little tiny thing... But I use it exclusively for bobbing rafter tails (in place), and it is always with me if I am up in the trusses... I could almost cut my own blocking up there... And I DO, quite a bit.