The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: mystery-ak on December 13, 2013, 02:13:10 am
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http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=71275644-2B41-435C-819D-4F29AEBD8C7C (http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=71275644-2B41-435C-819D-4F29AEBD8C7C)
GOP and conservative groups: The breakup begins
By: Anna Palmer and Jake Sherman
December 12, 2013 07:10 PM EST
House Republicans and big money conservative groups are going through a breakup.
Groups like FreedomWorks and Heritage Action demanded Republicans reject Rep. Paul Ryan’s budget deal — or else.
But 169 Republicans approved it anyway Thursday night.
And even though the deal itself was relatively small, it’s still a big moment for House Republicans.
For the first time since they took back the House in 2010, a strong majority of Republicans have rejected the political absolutism encouraged by the professional right that mired Congress in gridlock for years and culminated in a government shutdown this fall.
Speaker John Boehner could barely contain his glee as he knocked the outsiders for the second time in two days on Thursday afternoon.“Frankly I think they’re misleading their followers, I think they’re pushing our members in places where they don’t want to be, and frankly, I just think that they’ve lost all credibility,” Boehner said during his weekly news conference on Capitol Hill.
The groups — usually glad to cause a ruckus — have hardly responded, even when the writing was on the wall Wednesday.
While conservative leaders signed a group statement on Wednesday condemning the Hill activity, there is little evidence that they are prepared this time to execute the kind of concrete steps they have during other big debates.
The most they could muster Thursday was the release a photo of a Republican Study Committee staffer, Paul Teller, who was ousted Wednesday for allegedly dealing with the conservative groups. They labeled him a true conservative and used “#TeamTeller” on social media.
But unlike during the government shutdown of October, groups didn’t organize a flood of phone calls to urge lawmakers to vote against the budget. It ended up passing without a peep, even though some outside groups urged lawmakers to vote against it.
House Republicans have downplayed how tethered they are to outside GOP groups – whose coffers are filled to the brim with conservative cash.
“There’s a lot of frustration out there and it boiled over yesterday, and I’m hoping people will understand that we all are in this together and we have to figure out how to move forward and govern while representing our principles,” Rep. Steve Stivers (R-Ohio) said.
Unlike the past, Republicans are criticizing these groups in broad stroke — they’re calling them out for specific misstatements. Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Texas), who chairs the House Rules Committee, said some conservative figures were spreading rumors that this budget deal would provide a pathway to complete a comprehensive immigration reform, or enact strict gun control.
“Every single member wants to be able to effectively communicate with their people that are back home or groups that they are interested in about what the real bills are about,” Sessions said Thursday. “It frustrates people when theoretically they are on your same team.”
The Scalise episode is perhaps the clearest encapsulation of the split. Teller, who has served on the Hill for more than a decade, was cozy with groups like Heritage Action, and operated within the conservative world both on Capitol Hill and downtown. But Scalise was fed up with him, and canvassed RSC members about how they would feel if he tried to oust them. He knew it would be a controversial decision, but he found support from most Republicans, according to multiple lawmakers who had conversations with him.
Rep. Sam Johnson (R-Texas), a founding member of the RSC, put out a statement affirming his “complete confidence” and “support” for Scalise.
The right-wing groups say they’ve lost no clout. Heritage Action’s Dan Holler said that the budget deal passing isn’t a signal of any lessening of outside conservative groups and that they will continue their strategy.
“We’ve had a ton of great conversations with members and staff over the past couple of days,” Holler said, noting that lawmakers are going to have a hard time selling their vote on the budget back home. “There is a world outside of Washington and these members are accountable to their constituents.”
Conservatives have already begun a hard pivot to the 2014 elections.
L. Brent Bozell, the veteran conservative figure who is chairman of For America, said House Republican leadership is ginning up the grassroots conservative universe.
“There’s nothing I can I can do at this point to gin up support for the Republican Party within the conservative base,” Bozell said. “At the end of the day, I think Republicans are going to rethink this or what you are going to hear is the sound of doors closing all over America.”
Holler said if Boehner is moving in a “different direction,” and away from conservatives, that will have a “significant impact on policy.” Boehner allies say that he’s wresting the mantle of conservative back from these outside actors.
Matt Hoskins, the executive director of the Senate Conservatives Fund, said primaries are in order.
“The solution here is for conservatives to work together to replace these Republicans in the primary elections with true conservatives,” said Matt Hoskins, executive director of the Senate Conservatives Fund. “This is why the 2014 primaries are so important. If conservatives rise up, they can regain control of the party. If they stay home, the establishment will remain in power and continue to help the Democrats enact their liberal agenda.”
Members aligned with and sympathetic to these groups say Boehner is walking on egg shells. Rep. Tim Huelskamp (R-Kan.) said Boehner’s strategy was “dangerous” and would backfire.
“That’s how you set it up to lose elections,” said the Kansas Republican, who has often been at odds with GOP leaders. “This is real stuff. When those conservative groups say there is a problem in Washington, they get tens of thousands of people to call in… They are effective because they represent a lot of people.”
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169 Republicans thumbed their noses at Jim DeMint and Matt Hoskins tonight.
It will be very difficult for SCF to whip up the same level of indignation they did to force the shutdown of those kind of numbers continue to ignore them.
Ironically, the shutdown--viewed by many of these Tea Party as their greatest triumph--may be their undoing, since it failed so miserably.
Just by declaring something to be so does not make it so.
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169 Republicans thumbed their noses at Jim DeMint and Matt Hoskins tonight.
It will be very difficult for SCF to whip up the same level of indignation they did to force the shutdown of those kind of numbers continue to ignore them.
Ironically, the shutdown--viewed by many of these Tea Party as their greatest triumph--may be their undoing, since it failed so miserably.
Just by declaring something to be so does not make it so.
You are truly pathetic. You give John Kerry competition in the changing sides category. A month ago you were praising Boehner for holding the line on Sequester and you SWORE Boehner would NEVER back down on any part of Sequester.
Today Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and CHRIS MATTHEWS are all praising Boehner -- you are in their company cheer-leading the destruction of this country....... all to protect your precious, precious non-Republican Republicans... BTW you did read that the McCain amnesty woman went to work for Boehner last week and this is all to push through Amnesty - something you USED to be against - of course the way you change positions I'm sure when Boehner pushes it through you will cheer him on.
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You are truly pathetic. You give John Kerry competition in the changing sides category. A month ago you were praising Boehner for holding the line on Sequester and you SWORE Boehner would NEVER back down on any part of Sequester.
Today Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and CHRIS MATTHEWS are all praising Boehner -- you are in their company cheer-leading the destruction of this country....... all to protect your precious, precious non-Republican Republicans... BTW you did read that the McCain amnesty woman went to work for Boehner last week and this is all to push through Amnesty - something you USED to be against - of course the way you change positions I'm sure when Boehner pushes it through you will cheer him on.
It's become impossible to have any kind of discussion with you because your entire argument is one long personal attack.
Can't you have a reasonable discussion? I attacked you nowhere on this thread, yet the above is nothing but one long piss and moan against me.
Sorry you lost the vote tonight. Things might have been different if these money-raising machines hadn't fell on their faces during the shutdown.
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So... you are happy with Boehner doing what you SWORE he would not do..... got it.
House overwhelmingly passes budget deal that rolls back the sequester
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So... you are happy with Boehner doing what you SWORE he would not do..... got it.
House overwhelmingly passes budget deal that rolls back the sequester
.....and screws military retirees once again!!!
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.....and screws military retirees once again!!!
Yep............
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So... you are happy with Boehner doing what you SWORE he would not do..... got it.
House overwhelmingly passes budget deal that rolls back the sequester
I'm not happy about that, but I AM happy that we now have a clear path to take on the Democrats over Obamacare without the worry of a bunch of renegades trying to shut down the government and change the subject.
The Republicans had a weak hand in these budget negotiations because the main thing driving them was the desire to avoid another shutdown, and have the party's standing drop into negative territory. You can thank the Tea Party heroes, Cruz and Lee and their cronies at FreedwomWorks, SCF, and Heritage Action for that.
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It would be soooooooooooooo nice if just once you would drop the talking points and say something accurate. Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and the Tea Party did not shut down the government. Harry Reid and Obama shut down the government.
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It would be soooooooooooooo nice if just once you would drop the talking points and say something accurate. Ted Cruz, Mike Lee and the Tea Party did not shut down the government. Harry Reid and Obama shut down the government.
Sorry, but that's not the way 98% of the country saw it, including most Republicans.
It was foolish in the extreme to actually think there was any way Obama would sign a bill defunding Obamacare. Even Matt Hoskins at SCF admitted that after the shutdown was over; Rand Paul said the very same thing two weeks ago.
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Face it, Sink... you change positions depending on what the talking points of the day out of Boehner and McConnells offices are.
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Face it, Sink... you change positions depending on what the talking points of the day out of Boehner and McConnells offices are.
You're wrong, but you have your story and you're sticking to it.
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You're wrong, but you have your story and you're sticking to it.
Nope... it's quite clear you will fall on any sword the statists in DC tell you to fall on.. case in point TARP - spent 5% of the GDP on that boondoggle you supported.
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Nope... it's quite clear you will fall on any sword the statists in DC tell you to fall on.. case in point TARP - spent 5% of the GDP on that boondoggle you supported.
Digging up TARP is the best you can do? The consensus among economists is that TARP was the right thing to do.
Nearly every dime of TARP money has been paid back and its enactment prevented a much worse disaster.
But that's a disagreement over policy that you treat as a violation of conservative dogma. You can do that, but most people have gotten over it.
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Digging up TARP is the best you can do? The consensus among economists is that TARP was the right thing to do.
Nearly every dime of TARP money has been paid back and its enactment prevented a much worse disaster.
But that's a disagreement over policy that you treat as a violation of conservative dogma. You can do that, but most people have gotten over it.
No it hasn't been paid back. Even saying that shows how little you are willing to ever look below the surface. They used shell game/smoke and mirrors to claim it was paid back - just as they did with GM... and the reason I brought it up is one more example of how you always buy into the easy way - you seem to think the debt can just keep going up, up, up and all will be fine as long as you, personally, don't suffer because of it.
And one other thing... your comment above justifying your mis-statements about the shut down because what you said is the "perception" does not justify repeating something over and over again that is not factual... it is up to every single one of us to correct the record and state the facts, not fallacy, we've had too much re-writing history as it is.
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.self edit. not worth it.....
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.self edit. not worth it.....
Sorry to see you hold back on your comments.....
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No it hasn't been paid back. Even saying that shows how little you are willing to ever look below the surface. They used shell game/smoke and mirrors to claim it was paid back - just as they did with GM... and the reason I brought it up is one more example of how you always buy into the easy way - you seem to think the debt can just keep going up, up, up and all will be fine as long as you, personally, don't suffer because of it.
And one other thing... your comment above justifying your mis-statements about the shut down because what you said is the "perception" does not justify repeating something over and over again that is not factual... it is up to every single one of us to correct the record and state the facts, not fallacy, we've had too much re-writing history as it is.
Rap, it IS factual that the government would never have shutdown had Ted Cruz not insisted that the House pass a budget defunding Obamacare. That budget was DOA in the Senate, Cruz KNEW it would be DOA in the Senate, and he also knew that Obama would veto it if it did pass the Senate.
Do you actually believe that Obama would sign a bill to defund Obamacare? Tell me you don't really believe that.
And, I wish you would stop putting words in my mouth, this time regarding the debt. You do that a lot, not just to me. You don't know what other people are thinking, or what they really believe, so you just create strawmen or make stuff up.
As I said before, though, you have your story and you're sticking to it.
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Sorry to see you hold back on your comments.....
:silly:
LOL!! Maybe some other time... Things like seeing this kind of garbage pass through the House (that is supposed to be "representing" us!) and being told that we should be cheering for it, well..... kinds of turns my stomach............ These things make me sometimes say things that I prefer not to in public.....
:silly:
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The most they could muster Thursday was the release a photo of a Republican Study Committee staffer, Paul Teller, who was ousted Wednesday for allegedly dealing with the conservative groups. They labeled him a true conservative and used “#TeamTeller” on social media.
:silly:
The gauntlet has been thrown. The right wing must stand up and be counted, to prove their irrelevancy. Looks like they got 62 members of the House. Boehner has proved he can pass legislation without the rightwing by moving left. The whole argument of the rightwing is the GOP can't live without them, but the shutdown proved we can't live with them.
“Frankly, I just think they've lost all credibility.” - Speaker Boehner
better put some ice on that.
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:silly:
The gauntlet has been thrown. The right wing must stand up and be counted, to prove their irrelevancy. Looks like they got 62 members of the House. Boehner has proved he can pass legislation without the rightwing by moving left. The whole argument of the rightwing is the GOP can't live without them, but the shutdown proved we can't live with them.
“Frankly, I just think they've lost all credibility.” - Speaker Boehner
better put some ice on that.
Now that you're here crowing for your homiez, maybe you can tell us what the GOP plan is in the House for presenting an Obamacare alternative to the American people?
Now would be the time to act on that, don't you think?
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The 169 GOP Representatives will soon wish they never embraced Ryan's sell out and particularly the resulting consequences. Several GOP Senators are set to filibuster the budget scam. More GOP Senators are against it including Sessions, McConnell, Cornyn, Thune, Roberts, Cruz, Rubio, Paul, Lee, and Flake. Even Corker, Graham, Ayotte, and Wicker have announced their opposition!
The House Republicans supporting this bill will have little cover. It will be fun to watch these cockroaches run from the spotlight! Hope they all receive strong primary challengers!
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The 169 GOP Representatives will soon wish they never embraced Ryan's sell out and particularly the resulting consequences. Several GOP Senators are set to filibuster the budget scam. More GOP Senators are against it including Sessions, McConnell, Cornyn, Thune, Roberts, Cruz, Rubio, Paul, Lee, and Flake. Even Corker, Graham, Ayotte, and Wicker have announced their opposition!
The House Republicans supporting this bill will have little cover. It will be fun to watch these cockroaches run from the spotlight! Hope they all receive strong primary challengers!
Cockroaches, pretty much says it all.
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I'm not happy about that, but I AM happy that we now have a clear path to take on the Democrats over Obamacare without the worry of a bunch of renegades trying to shut down the government and change the subject.
The Republicans had a weak hand in these budget negotiations because the main thing driving them was the desire to avoid another shutdown, and have the party's standing drop into negative territory. You can thank the Tea Party heroes, Cruz and Lee and their cronies at FreedwomWorks, SCF, and Heritage Action for that.
I actually supported the shutdown. I thought it effective insofar as it clearly messaged the entire nation that the GOP would go to any length to avoid the disastrous consequences that the implementation of the ACA would have on the American people and the American economy, right before the plan was implemented, and it made the Democrats stand in support of the legislation one more time.
Sure, the shutdown cost the GOP some points in the court of public opinion, but the people's opinion of the GOP was pretty bad before the shutdown anyway.
Then implementation, website failures, lies exposed, cancellations, sticker shock, and suddenly the shutdown gambit gave the GOP the ability to paint themselves as the champion of the people.
A second shutdown has no purpose other than divert the attention of the people away from the administration's failures, so this compromise was needed to keep the public's attention focused on the ACA and Obama's failures. So I agree with you... in all likelihood the Democrats were "negotiating" with the idea of forcing another shutdown, and that shutdown would actually be harmful for the GOP in the short-term.
I like Ted Cruz.
I like him for the same reason that Lincoln liked and supported Ulysses S. Grant. "He fights" said Lincoln about Grant, and Cruz fights too but like Grant, he needs to know when and where it is best to do so for the greater cause.
The T.E.A. Party's influence on the GOP is commensurate to the number of chairs the occupy at the table, and that's the way it should be. If they want more influence, they need to gain more seats. If they threaten to kick the table over unless they can control the party from a minority position, they are dead wrong.
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Nice to see you posting again, Luis! :beer:
It also provides a little more context to the back and forth bickering here on the forum.
We're all supposed to be on the same team here.....
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:silly:
The gauntlet has been thrown. The right wing must stand up and be counted, to prove their irrelevancy. Looks like they got 62 members of the House. Boehner has proved he can pass legislation without the rightwing by moving left. The whole argument of the rightwing is the GOP can't live without them, but the shutdown proved we can't live with them.
“Frankly, I just think they've lost all credibility.” - Speaker Boehner
better put some ice on that.
The Democrat's left flank is not all that strong, and when (if ever) they threaten to secede, it's far easier for them to move to the center to supplement lost votes than it is for the GOP to do the same, and (generally speaking) non-affiliated voters see a move to the center by Democrats as a positive thing, while the right flank of the GOP sees the same thing as a betrayal. There are more votes to be captured at the bulky center of the polity than there are at either extreme, so the GOP needs to move to the center to secure enough votes to defeat the Democrats in 2014.
That's a quagmire, however, if the T.E.A. Party wants things to "change" in DC, the first thing they have to do is win elections, and tantrums, threats and public internecine feuds do not instill confidence in voters.
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I actually supported the shutdown. I thought it effective insofar as it clearly messaged the entire nation that the GOP would go to any length to avoid the disastrous consequences that the implementation of the ACA would have on the American people and the American economy, right before the plan was implemented, and it made the Democrats stand in support of the legislation one more time.
Sure, the shutdown cost the GOP some points in the court of public opinion, but the people's opinion of the GOP was pretty bad before the shutdown anyway.
Then implementation, website failures, lies exposed, cancellations, sticker shock, and suddenly the shutdown gambit gave the GOP the ability to paint themselves as the champion of the people.
A second shutdown has no purpose other than divert the attention of the people away from the administration's failures, so this compromise was needed to keep the public's attention focused on the ACA and Obama's failures. So I agree with you... in all likelihood the Democrats were "negotiating" with the idea of forcing another shutdown, and that shutdown would actually be harmful for the GOP in the short-term.
I like Ted Cruz.
I like him for the same reason that Lincoln liked and supported Ulysses S. Grant. "He fights" said Lincoln about Grant, and Cruz fights too but like Grant, he needs to know when and where it is best to do so for the greater cause.
The T.E.A. Party's influence on the GOP is commensurate to the number of chairs the occupy at the table, and that's the way it should be. If they want more influence, they need to gain more seats. If they threaten to kick the table over unless they can control the party from a minority position, they are dead wrong.
I agree with your post.
I'd like to add, that in the view of the LIVs and even the average Joes, the constant budget wars have gone beyond tiresome. There are dire warnings, and histrionics with each new battle. All the average person sees is the crying, whining, and posturing, and when it's all over, nothing changes.
The Democrats are in charge. The American people put them in charge. It's the duty of the Republicans to work with the Democrats when possible. Get the deal, take the focus off of budget. Let Democrats and the American people stew in the juices of Obamacare.
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I actually supported the shutdown. I thought it effective insofar as it clearly messaged the entire nation that the GOP would go to any length to avoid the disastrous consequences that the implementation of the ACA would have on the American people and the American economy, right before the plan was implemented, and it made the Democrats stand in support of the legislation one more time.
Sure, the shutdown cost the GOP some points in the court of public opinion, but the people's opinion of the GOP was pretty bad before the shutdown anyway.
Then implementation, website failures, lies exposed, cancellations, sticker shock, and suddenly the shutdown gambit gave the GOP the ability to paint themselves as the champion of the people.
A second shutdown has no purpose other than divert the attention of the people away from the administration's failures, so this compromise was needed to keep the public's attention focused on the ACA and Obama's failures. So I agree with you... in all likelihood the Democrats were "negotiating" with the idea of forcing another shutdown, and that shutdown would actually be harmful for the GOP in the short-term.
I like Ted Cruz.
I like him for the same reason that Lincoln liked and supported Ulysses S. Grant. "He fights" said Lincoln about Grant, and Cruz fights too but like Grant, he needs to know when and where it is best to do so for the greater cause.
The T.E.A. Party's influence on the GOP is commensurate to the number of chairs the occupy at the table, and that's the way it should be. If they want more influence, they need to gain more seats. If they threaten to kick the table over unless they can control the party from a minority position, they are dead wrong.
I agree completely and the only reason the strategy didn't work is because the milquetoast leadership didn't WANT it to work! They are committed to one thing and one thing only and that is to make sure their little inside the beltway game is preserved! They couldn't care less what it costs the rest of us!
“Until one is committed, there is a hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always, ineffectiveness concerning all acts of initiative (and creation). There is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in ones favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance which no one could have dreamed would have come their way. Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.”
Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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I agree completely and the only reason the strategy didn't work is because the milquetoast leadership didn't WANT it to work! They are committed to one thing and one thing only and that is to make sure their little inside the beltway game is preserved! They couldn't care less what it costs the rest of us!
But it did work.
The generic Congressional vote did a complete turn to favor Republicans.
This public feud endangers that.
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But it did work.
The generic Congressional vote did a complete turn to favor Republicans.
This public feud endangers that.
True, so why is the GOP so willing to throw a huge chunk of their base to the wolves, 3d party or worse? Cruz, Lee, Rand, and a few other conservatives have been critical of non conservative issues results, but didn't attack the GOP. Are Americans not allowed to criticize? I liked Bush, but was critical of him when he went left. So what? However, Boehner and McConnell are going overboard, and not criticizing issues, but criticizing the people they need. Boehner compromised with democrats, but can't and won't compromise with his own party. He is not a leader, but a coward, who doesn't have the guts to stand by his beliefs...that is, if he has any left.
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True, so why is the GOP so willing to throw a huge chunk of their base to the wolves, 3d party or worse? Cruz, Lee, Rand, and a few other conservatives have been critical of non conservative issues results, but didn't attack the GOP. Are Americans not allowed to criticize? I liked Bush, but was critical of him when he went left. So what? However, Boehner and McConnell are going overboard, and not criticizing issues, but criticizing the people they need. Boehner compromised with democrats, but can't and won't compromise with his own party. He is not a leader, but a coward, who doesn't have the guts to stand by his beliefs...that is, if he has any left.
Because their game is endangered by them and nothing matters more to them than their inside the beltway game! Not the country, NOt you and not me!
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But it did work.
The generic Congressional vote did a complete turn to favor Republicans.
This public feud endangers that.
Yes it did! But not nearly so well as it would have had Boehner not announced surrender at the outset! The establishment MUST put it down at all costs because it endangers their little inside the beltway game! Hence the public feud!
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True, so why is the GOP so willing to throw a huge chunk of their base to the wolves, 3d party or worse? Cruz, Lee, Rand, and a few other conservatives have been critical of non conservative issues results, but didn't attack the GOP. Are Americans not allowed to criticize? I liked Bush, but was critical of him when he went left. So what? However, Boehner and McConnell are going overboard, and not criticizing issues, but criticizing the people they need. Boehner compromised with democrats, but can't and won't compromise with his own party. He is not a leader, but a coward, who doesn't have the guts to stand by his beliefs...that is, if he has any left.
Americans are more than allowed to criticize, they have a right to do so, but Congressional GOP members are playing a different game than the polity, and YES, the GOP's right flank immediately attacked the agreement the moment that they learned that there was an agreement, simply because there was an agreement.
I am not seeing those feuds from the left. The DNC's left flank was not happy about this agreement either but it appears as if they are content with watching the GOP self-destruct.
We need to play politics and win elections and majorities so that we can then govern based on ideology.
That's how we got Obamacare to begin with, and that is the only way we're going to get rid of it.
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Yes it did, and that is why the establishment MUST put it down at all costs! Hence the public feud!
We have a disconnect here.
The GOP took a beating on the generic ballot during the period of the shutdown, but made tremendous gains immediately after that as the ACA (and Obama) self-destructed. That lead that was there has now begun to narrow, and it may be as a result of the GOP infighting.
The bulk of the polity is tired of drama politics. The budget agreement is a good thing for the GOP.
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Yes it did! But not nearly so well as it would have had Boehner not announced surrender at the outset! The establishment MUST put it down at all costs because it endangers their little inside the beltway game! Hence the public feud!
Arguing from the perspective of something that did not happen is illogical. The best example of that sort of flawed logic is the Democrat's argument that Obama's stimulus was a success based on the argument that as bad as the economy has been, it would have been worse without it.
You cannot discuss the relative impact of things that didn't happen, because they didn't happen.
The reality is that just as it could have worked better, it could have also been worse. There's no way of knowing either, so it is a waste of time debating that point.
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The Democrat's left flank is not all that strong, and when (if ever) they threaten to secede, it's far easier for them to move to the center to supplement lost votes than it is for the GOP to do the same, and (generally speaking) non-affiliated voters see a move to the center by Democrats as a positive thing, while the right flank of the GOP sees the same thing as a betrayal. There are more votes to be captured at the bulky center of the polity than there are at either extreme, so the GOP needs to move to the center to secure enough votes to defeat the Democrats in 2014.
That's a quagmire, however, if the T.E.A. Party wants things to "change" in DC, the first thing they have to do is win elections, and tantrums, threats and public internecine feuds do not instill confidence in voters.
I agree. When I see the Tea Party taking rat seats I will start taking the Tea Party seriously as a political force. What I've seen so far is a mixed bag of primary wins in safe GOP districts and states and losses in the general election. The TP likes to take credit for 2010. Some credit is deserved but some of the electoral victories can be explained by simple anti-Obama sentiment not a conservative shift in the voting population. The record since 2010 has been bland.
The Tea Party will fade as the GOP co-opt their popular positions leaving them with the fringe excesses of ideological purity. Take a look at the stars of the Tea Party and recognize that they are the future sellouts soon to be abandoned by the right wing as Rubio found out, or they will be removed by election. One thing they all share is a very short voting history. Give Cruz, Lee and Paul sometime to disappoint the unappeasable right wing or watch them voted out by the majority like Santorum.
What happened to Santorum? The right wing spent much time attacking Specter and pointing out how PA elected a real conservative. Way more conservative than the moderate Specter. The voters listened and kicked Santorum out. Specter faced with support from only moderate voters had to switch to rat to have a chance at re-election. PA now has 1 conservative(so far) Senator and one DINO. The demand for ideological purity pushed the state to the left.
When moderate voters are given a choice of a RINO and a leftist they choose RINO. If the choice is DINO or conservative they choose DINO. The right wing wanted it all they got none. Just like the shutdown. They have learned nothing from history, but the GOPe has learned some new tricks.
The GOPe is fighting for dominance and their political lives. The right wing would rather lose than win through compromise. Who do you think will perceiver?
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The GOPe is fighting for dominance and their political lives. The right wing would rather lose than win through compromise. Who do you think will perceiver?
Lose on priniciple or win on compromise. That's the choice.
Losing on principle is the Mark Levin way to power. He actually advocated this two nights ago: we may have to lose another two or three election cycles before we can convince enough voters to support us.
No winning strategy in ANYTHING EVER included losing.
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Lose on priniciple or win on compromise. That's the choice.
Losing on principle is the Mark Levin way to power. He actually advocated this two nights ago: we may have to lose another two or three election cycles before we can convince enough voters to support us.
No winning strategy in ANYTHING EVER included losing.
The delusion of the right, from my perspective, is comical. For months the right wing advertised their intention to shutdown the government to defund Obamacare. They threatened a mass exodus of the party from conservatives if they didn't get their way, and they got their way for 2 weeks. They lead us to that point. It all went according to plan. Speaker Boehner passed the House with no Obamacare funding. It went to the Senate and the RINOs asked "what now?" and then the right wing explained that "Cruz, Lee, and Paul, wait until nightfall, and then leap out of the rabbit, taking the French, uh, by surprise. Not only by surprise, but totally unarmed!"
I still read conservatives saying Obama and Reid shutdown the government because they wouldn't sign on to the plan. What did the right wing think they would do? Roll over and obey because of the mighty will of a dozen Senators?
They wanted to lead. The GOPe let them.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/08/05/Ted-Cruz-I-need-a-grassroots-army-to-defund-Obamacare-stop-amnesty
The right wing thought a grass roots army would rise up, and demand an end to Obamacare through wishes and hot air. :laughingdog:
The right wing showed their flaccid authority with voters when voters demanded their Obamacare.
What did the GOP gain above the 20+ votes to repeal Obamacare passed by Boehner and the GOPe...the certitude that the GOP wants Obamacare to fail. Now anything we might suggest to ease the suffering of those poor voters stricken with Obamacare is suspect with more voters. But that is the difference between skilled politicians and amateurs.
The right wing thought the RINOs would develop a spine against public opinion despite wall to wall talk radio coverage of the last 20 years. Long have conservatives sniveled at the lowly RINO. Expanding the definition to include men like Boehner, Burr, and Cornyn. Once RINOs were Republicans like Specter and Snowe.
The right wing doesn't understand the world and that makes them a danger if they are ever allowed to run the show again, and as Mark Levin predicts they will lose for many elections. This is what they asked for. Irrelevancy. They threatened a show of force. They got it. The voters said :cross: The GOPe saw it. and it was good. Now begins the final chapter. Soon the stories will be "How did the Tea Party fall so fast and hard?" and then the "Where Are They Now?" C-Span special. An ironic downfall by the design of the right wing.
Theodoric of Cruz, Medieval Senator proscribes a GOP bloodletting. The GOPe has responded to the right wing's declaration of war with "let us start with the right arm."
Thankfully / Bizarrely they still have not figured it out. The hand is over and the GOPe called their bluff...but they still want to play with the same cards. In that case I'll raise again.
They think the GOPe can't find 5 RINO senators to pass a budget. It's like a mental disorder.
Bring on the Primaries!
The GOPe is going to smack the taste out of their mouth.
And there are only 2 things they can do about it.
Nothing.
and Like It!
If you Smell what the GOPe is Cooking!
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No winning strategy in ANYTHING EVER included losing.
With the possible exception of the Colts 2011 season.