The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: Free Vulcan on September 19, 2017, 05:22:27 pm
-
President Donald Trump would sign the Graham-Cassidy bill if the legislation to repeal Obamacare makes it to his desk, an administration official told CNN Tuesday.
A source tells CNN that the White House has been working with Republican Sens. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Bill Cassidy of Louisiana for weeks on the new effort, and a second source added that Trump himself had quietly encouraged the two senators to take another shot at health care.
Though it seemed as if the effort to repeal the Affordable Care Act was dead in the water after the so-called "skinny" repeal bill failed this summer with a dramatic late-night vote against it by Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, there is a renewed push to pass a repeal before the end of the month.
Read more at: http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/19/politics/trump-graham-cassidy-obamacare-repeal/index.html
------
CNN reporting and anonymous sources, so take with a grain of salt, and maybe a shot of whisky.
-
Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
Make no mistake – Graham/Cassidy keeps ObamaCare funding and regulations in place. Oh, it rearranges the furniture a bit, changes some names, and otherwise masks what is really going on – a redistribution of ObamaCare taxes and a new Republican entitlement program, funded nearly as extravagantly as ObamaCare.
Graham/Cassidy doesn’t repeal a single ObamaCare insurance regulation. All of the Title 1 rules, the Essential Health Benefit rules, all of them - they’re still in place here.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/09/18/sen-rand-paul-grahamcassidy-does-not-repeal-obamacare-and-oppose-it.html (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/09/18/sen-rand-paul-grahamcassidy-does-not-repeal-obamacare-and-oppose-it.html)
-
Sen. Rand Paul: Graham/Cassidy does NOT repeal ObamaCare and I oppose it
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/09/18/sen-rand-paul-grahamcassidy-does-not-repeal-obamacare-and-oppose-it.html (http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/09/18/sen-rand-paul-grahamcassidy-does-not-repeal-obamacare-and-oppose-it.html)
Obamacare lite is still Obamacare.
-
Trump will sign anything. Remember that sham passed by the House early on? He said then he would sign it.
I am convinced that, with respect to Obamacare repeal, tax reform and immigration, congress will pass anything, Trump will sign it, and they will all high-five one another and tell us they kept their promises.
Meanwhile, the legislation will have accomplished nothing and most likely, will have made things worse.
-
Trump will sign anything. Remember that sham passed by the House early on? He said then he would sign it.
I am convinced that, with respect to Obamacare repeal, tax reform and immigration, congress will pass anything, Trump will sign it, and they will all high-five one another and tell us they kept their promises.
Meanwhile, the legislation will have accomplished nothing and most likely, will have made things worse.
This isn't repeal, which the economy and health care system needs. It's a placebo to make the patient think something meaningful is being done.
-
And it'll be added to the list of wonderfully conservative things that Trump has done. *****rollingeyes*****
-
I'm trying to figure out something here.
Ignoring the whole Hillary thing- remember in the primary it was all 'anyone but Jeb!'? With all the shifting, I'm trying to find an actual position :baghead: is taking that wasn't Jeb's policy during the campaign.
We just have an Orange Jeb.
-
Obamacare lite is still Obamacare.
Only.... with the brand spankin new shiny GOP label slapped on it.... so the GOP can (and will) get all the blame. ALL of it.
-
Only.... with the brand spankin new shiny GOP label slapped on it.... so the GOP can (and will) get all the blame. ALL of it.
And the Dems and the media will make sure the GOP owns it too.
-
And the Dems and the media will make sure the GOP owns it too.
Yep, any problems from now on, even if they are problems predicted all the way back from when it passed, will be set right on this lipstick on a pig bill. The Dems will use this as a 'crisis' they need to fix and not only get a legislative victory out of this, but fix it with single payer or worse.
-
(http://www.resourcesforlife.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/20160712tu0459-donald-trump-universal-healthcare-1300x478-1080x478.jpg)
-
But @AbaraXas Trump's views have "evolved."
At least that's what some of Trump's most rabid fans tell me.
-
Maybe Trump should do nothing but create gridlock, then, we can idolize him like any of those Senators, Paul, Lee and so on. Do nothing, that's the ticket.
-
And it'll be added to the list of wonderfully conservative things that Trump has done. *****rollingeyes*****
Doesn't bother one when we are talking about Senator Cruz though. *****rollingeyes*****
-
What’s in the new GOP health care bill, in one (simple) chart
BY Lisa Desjardins September 19, 2017 at 7:12 PM EDT
The heart monitor on the Republican health care reform effort is suddenly beeping again, thanks to four GOP senators who released a 140-page bill that’s keeping conservative hope for overhauling the Affordable Care Act alive.
How does this latest bill — backed by Republicans Sens. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, Bill Cassidy of Louisiana, Dean Heller of Nevada and Ron Johnson of Wisconsin — compare with the two major GOP efforts that failed earlier this year? (That would be the House-passed “American Health Care Act” and Senate Republican leaders’ “Better Care Reconciliation Act”).
They all effectively wipe out Obamacare’s mandates to buy insurance, give more power to states and dramatically alter Medicaid, the health care program for the poor.
<..snip..>
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/whats-new-gop-health-care-bill-one-simple-chart/ (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/whats-new-gop-health-care-bill-one-simple-chart/)
-
I can see your back at it @TomSea
(http://radio.foxnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TRUMPSHARK.jpg)
-
Doesn't bother one when we are talking about Senator Cruz though. *****rollingeyes*****
(http://memecrunch.com/meme/VDUL/obsess-much/image.png)
-
I can see your back at it @TomSea
(http://radio.foxnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TRUMPSHARK.jpg)
Not really, Senator Cruz even made the late night tv show jokes per this pornography incident, I've said nothing about that.
-
Txradio wrote:
"Obamacare lite is still Obamacare."
14 tons of trouble is less weight to haul than 20 tons of trouble.
Maybe next time, they can take off a few more tons...
-
Txradio wrote:
"Obamacare lite is still Obamacare."
14 tons of trouble is less weight to haul than 20 tons of trouble.
Maybe next time, they can take off a few more tons...
Surely you're not that naive...
-
Txradio wrote:
"Obamacare lite is still Obamacare."
14 tons of trouble is less weight to haul than 20 tons of trouble.
Maybe next time, they can take off a few more tons...
What next time? They will preserve the requirements for insurance policies which will still not help people who lost their polices to the plan requirements under the ACA which means if you are making a living, you have to shell out for the Cadillac plan. For my family, that's 28K a year. Nuts. We do without. It would be nice to go back to having some happy medium between no plan and one that pays to get our toenails clipped.
The bought votes will stay bought, the insurance companies will keep raking it in, and the American Middle class will get the shaft. As usual.
-
Maybe Trump should do nothing but create gridlock, then, we can idolize him like any of those Senators, Paul, Lee and so on. Do nothing, that's the ticket.
Maybe Trump and the rest of the Republicans should keep their promises and repeal Obamacare.
-
"Die-hard conservatives thought that if I couldn't get everything I asked for, I should jump off the cliff with the flag flying-go down in flames. No, if I can get 70 or 80 percent of what it is I'm trying to get ... I'll take that and then continue to try to get the rest in the future.
– Ronald Reagan"
(my suggestion for Rand Paul)
-
(my suggestion for Rand Paul)
Insanity.
-
"Die-hard conservatives thought that if I couldn't get everything I asked for, I should jump off the cliff with the flag flying-go down in flames. No, if I can get 70 or 80 percent of what it is I'm trying to get ... I'll take that and then continue to try to get the rest in the future.
– Ronald Reagan"
(my suggestion for Rand Paul)
Somehow I doubt he would say the same thing about 20 or 30 percent, which is what we're being offered.
-
Somehow I doubt he would say the same thing about 20 or 30 percent, which is what we're being offered.
No, it is more like 70+ percent, since it eliminates both the "individual and employer mandates," and eliminates the "essential health benefits."
-
No, it is more like 70+ percent, since it eliminates both the "individual and employer mandates," and eliminates the "essential health benefits."
It's not repeal.
-
No, it is more like 70+ percent, since it eliminates both the "individual and employer mandates," and eliminates the "essential health benefits."
Baloney. It removes NO essential authority from the fed, retaining ALL the power. This isn't 70%+... This is nothing.
-
It's not repeal.
@Appplewood
And now we're seeing a new version of that pathetic equivalency game that was played during the election...if you don't support this half measure that does nothing...you support Obamacare.
Sad to see so called Conservatives reading along from the pages of Rules for Radicals right along with the Liberals.
-
@Appplewood
And now we're seeing a new version of that pathetic equivalency game that was played during the election...if you don't support this half measure that does nothing...you support Obamacare.
Sad to see so called Conservatives reading along from the pages of Rules for Radicals right along with the Liberals.
Yep. Only I would say those who make such accusations are not true conservatives.
-
Yep. Only I would say those who make such accusations are not true conservatives.
Very true
-
This isn't repeal, which the economy and health care system needs. It's a placebo to make the patient think something meaningful is being done.
It's replacing an open-ended entitlement with block grants. That would be an important conservative victory - and would open up budget room to accomplish meaningful tax reform.
So many folks are still up in arms because the Congress can't do the impossible - muster a majority for a clean repeal. But in the real world, that position is a proxy for retaining the ObamaCare entitlement.
-
It's replacing an open-ended entitlement with block grants. That would be an important conservative victory - and would open up budget room to accomplish meaningful tax reform.
So many folks are still up in arms because the Congress can't do the impossible - muster a majority for a clean repeal. But in the real world, that position is a proxy for retaining the ObamaCare entitlement.
It changes nothing in Obamacare that is ruining the health care system now. It won't change a damn thing about the sorry state of government managed health care people are suffering under today.
Free market is the only logical and sensible option for health care and health insurance.
More government meddling under the guise of better managing the catastrophe is NOT the answer.
-
Yep. Only I would say those who make such accusations are not true conservatives.
Anyone who is happy with the current state should be shunned at the very least. They are causing untold misery, harm, and early death. Small hospitals are going out of business forcing people in rural areas to travel hours to reach another hospital.
-
(https://dcbarroco.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/160511d-donald-trump.jpg?w=604)
Way To Go Trump!
Promises kept.
-
Baloney. It removes NO essential authority from the fed, retaining ALL the power. This isn't 70%+... This is nothing.
:amen: Just more smoke and mirrors from inside the beltway! Appear to be doing something while actually doing nothing much at all!
-
It changes nothing in Obamacare that is ruining the health care system now. It won't change a damn thing about the sorry state of government managed health care people are suffering under today.
Free market is the only logical and sensible option for health care and health insurance.
More government meddling under the guise of better managing the catastrophe is NOT the answer.
There is no majority for what you favor. There is, however, both an immediate crisis and the specter of an open-ended entitlement. I'm for pragmatism in the real world. I'm for Graham/Cassidy.
-
(https://dcbarroco.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/160511d-donald-trump.jpg?w=604)
Way To Go Trump!
Promises kept.
Why do you continue to repeat this lie?
The new CR that Trump signed fully funds Planned Parenthood.
He's done nothing...NOTHING to stop the abortion mills.
-
I applaud Trump, Cotton, Cruz, none of this Rockefeller Republicanism of supporting Planned Parenthood which many will be doing, possibly McCain and Paul.
-
Anyone who is happy with the current state should be shunned at the very least. They are causing untold misery, harm, and early death. Small hospitals are going out of business forcing people in rural areas to travel hours to reach another hospital.
People who don't support the latest POS legislation are not happy with the way things are. Repeal is the only way to slay this beast and this legislation is not repeal. A real conservative would not support any legislation that in effect keeps basic elements of Obamacare in place. You can call this legislation, repeal, but calling it repeal does not make it repeal.
I want the repeal all of these con artists promised us. Why anyone would settle for less is beyond my comprehension.
-
There is no majority for what you favor. There is, however, both an immediate crisis and the specter of an open-ended entitlement. I'm for pragmatism in the real world. I'm for Graham/Cassidy.
And you know this how? The people gave the Republicans majorities in BOTH houses because of the stated promise of a full repeal of Obamacare.
That sounds like a majority in favor of that which I speak.
You're for continuation of the status quo...which is the GOP establishment point of view and that of the Liberals in DC as well.
You're for continued Obamacare...just with the GOP brand on it.
Why do you want people to die unnecessarily?
-
People who don't support the latest POS legislation are not happy with the way things are. Repeal is the only way to slay this beast and this legislation is not repeal. A real conservative would not support any legislation that in effect keeps basic elements of Obamacare in place. You can call this legislation, repeal, but calling it repeal does not make it repeal.
I want the repeal all of these con artists promised us. Why anyone would settle for less is beyond my comprehension.
I agree repeal has to be done. This bill appears to be yet another lie by congress.
-
Surely you're not that naive...
Do you think the Democrats got single-payer in one fell swoop? Surely you, much older than I, are not THAT naive!
-
@Appplewood
And now we're seeing a new version of that pathetic equivalency game that was played during the election...if you don't support this half measure that does nothing...you support Obamacare.
Sad to see so called Conservatives reading along from the pages of Rules for Radicals right along with the Liberals.
But in this case, it's entirely true. Because there is not enough support in the Senate to repeal Obamacare entirely, every ounce of energy wasted opposing any bill that incrementally dismantles it is another day added to Obamacare's onerous and un-American mandates.
The Presidency was a different kind of competition. There was no default position. Neither major candidate was owed our vote. But there is a default position: if nothing happens, Obamacare stays in place intact, which is the same position that will happen if this vote is rejected.
Supporting this bill may not repeal Obamacare outright, but opposing it leaves it all intact. I wish some of you would understand that.
-
Do you think the Democrats got single-payer in one fell swoop? Surely you, much older than I, are not THAT naive!
They don't have single payer yet...but Republicans are sure trying to help them get there.
-
I agree repeal has to be done. This bill appears to be yet another lie by congress.
@driftdiver
Agree with you 100% here.
-
Baloney. It removes NO essential authority from the fed, retaining ALL the power. This isn't 70%+... This is nothing.
That's a lie and you know it. This is just childish, petulant game-playing that ensures people like me who want to opt-out of this mess of a health care system can't without Uncle Sam taking his pound of flesh anyway.
-
There is no majority for what you favor. There is, however, both an immediate crisis and the specter of an open-ended entitlement. I'm for pragmatism in the real world. I'm for Graham/Cassidy.
This isn't a Democraacy, it's a Republic. Some things are beyond the ability of a majority decision, it's why we have a Constitution: To protect the rights of the minority.
-
But in this case, it's entirely true. Because there is not enough support in the Senate to repeal Obamacare entirely, every ounce of energy wasted opposing any bill that incrementally dismantles it is another day added to Obamacare's onerous and un-American mandates.
No it's not true. Stop falling for that crap and repeating the Alinsky tactics on us.
If this POS bill goes through...and Trump's repeated promise of full repeal and McConnell's repeated promise of full repeal isn't realized and fulfilled...the House and Senate Republicans are going to be faced with an angry voting constituency come the Mid Terms.
And it won't be pretty for anyone.
Supporting this bill may not repeal Obamacare outright, but opposing it leaves it all intact. I wish some of you would understand that.
This bill leaves Obamacare in tact. The only change is that it puts the GOP brand on it goin forward and the Dems are going to choke the life out of us with it.
-
Maybe Trump and the rest of the Republicans should keep their promises and repeal Obamacare.
Obama care repeal is ENTIRELY in the hands of Congress. All Trump can do is sign repeal legislation. Don't blame Trump for the liars in Congress.
-
That's a lie and you know it. This is just childish, petulant game-playing that ensures people like me who want to opt-out of this mess of a health care system can't without Uncle Sam taking his pound of flesh anyway.
You won't be able to opt out under the new "fix". Even when Cruz tried to get that amendment added the last go round McConnell made sure it wasn't added the way Cruz intended....he changed the wording.
Make no mistake – Graham/Cassidy keeps ObamaCare funding and regulations in place. Oh, it rearranges the furniture a bit, changes some names, and otherwise masks what is really going on – a redistribution of ObamaCare taxes and a new Republican entitlement program, funded nearly as extravagantly as ObamaCare.
Graham/Cassidy doesn’t repeal a single ObamaCare insurance regulation. All of the Title 1 rules, the Essential Health Benefit rules, all of them - they’re still in place here.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/09/18/sen-rand-paul-grahamcassidy-does-not-repeal-obamacare-and-oppose-it.html
-
Senator Paul is lying to promote his own bill and his own career, just like his daddy did with his stunts.
-
They don't have single payer yet...but Republicans are sure trying to help them get there.
Well, Rand Paul sure is.
-
Well, Rand Paul sure is.
No he's not. Show me a quote where Senator Paul has said "I support single payer".
You can't.
If anything it's Trump that called for Single payer during the campaign.
-
Senator Paul is lying to promote his own bill and his own career, just like his daddy did with his stunts.
You've got proof that he's lying? Show us.
-
Some further info, if we can believe them:
http://www.politico.com/interactives/2017/graham-cassidy-health-care-bill-what-you-need-to-know/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/09/19/graham-cassidy-health-care-bill/681029001/
-
No he's not. Show me a quote where Senator Paul has said "I support single payer".
You can't.
Actions have consequences. If Paul's showboating is the difference that keeps the GOP caucus from reforming O-Care under budget reconciliation rules, then O-Care will remain, and the existential crisis facing O-Care will lead inevitably to single payer.
-
You've got proof that he's lying? Show us.
You know that is just an altered version of if you didn't vote for Trump you voted for Hillary. It's the same non-logic.
-
Obama care repeal is ENTIRELY in the hands of Congress. All Trump can do is sign repeal legislation. Don't blame Trump for the liars in Congress.
I blame him for not insisting on the repeal we voters were promised by Republicans -- particularly, him. That he has indicated willingness to sign any POS legislation that comes to his desk means he lied to the voters too.
-
Obama care repeal is ENTIRELY in the hands of Congress. All Trump can do is sign repeal legislation. Don't blame Trump for the liars in Congress.
Yeah....sure. What you're really saying is..... don't blame Trump....
for ANY thing. Right?
-
You know that is just an altered version of if you didn't vote for Trump you voted for Hillary. It's the same non-logic.
Yup it sure is. I guess we can expect 3 more years of this kind of BS whenever there is a Dem-lite bill the GOP wants to pass and Conservatives oppose it.
-
No he's not. Show me a quote where Senator Paul has said "I support single payer".
You can't.
If anything it's Trump that called for Single payer during the campaign.
They're calling Rand a liar, Congress liars, and of course they bash and blame Ted Cruz....
when the one they should be blaming and calling a liar is their hero, Herr Drumpf. He's the one that promised the voters all those "great deals" he would make. He can't even make deals with his own party. But deals with Democrats? Check. It's laughable how their damage control bias is turned on full-tilt 24/7....
cause it HAS to be.
-
You know that is just an altered version of if you didn't vote for Trump you voted for Hillary. It's the same non-logic.
I've already debunked this.
There was no default choice in that election. You could have chosen any of many options or not voted at all.
But there are indeed only two ways to vote on this: yes, or no. (Well, you could vote present, but nobody's advocating that.)
Vote yes, and we make progress toward our goal.
Vote no, and Obamacare stays in place. That is a guarantee. No government program dies on its own.
Obamacare repeal is not on the table right now, and until we get more conservatives in the Senate, it NEVER WILL BE. Nobody is saying this is good enough. Nobody is saying that this the end-all and be-all. It is a STEP, in the face of a hostile Washington lobby, toward a return to freedom.
One other thing: the No Never Caucus would like to have you believe that if we vote yes, there's no way any further progress will be made. Well, if the vote goes no, what makes you think that even greater repeal is ever going to happen?
-
It's replacing an open-ended entitlement with block grants. That would be an important conservative victory - and would open up budget room to accomplish meaningful tax reform.
So many folks are still up in arms because the Congress can't do the impossible - muster a majority for a clean repeal. But in the real world, that position is a proxy for retaining the ObamaCare entitlement.
THE (promised) important Conservative Victory is to repeal the unConstitutional ACA. PERIOD. Anything less is capitulation, not victory.
We were promised repeal. No less than full repeal is adequate.
-
I've already debunked this.
There was no default choice in that election. You could have chosen any of many options or not voted at all.
But there are indeed only two ways to vote on this: yes, or no. (Well, you could vote present, but nobody's advocating that.)
Vote yes, and we make progress toward our goal.
Vote no, and Obamacare stays in place. That is a guarantee. No government program dies on its own.
Obamacare repeal is not on the table right now, and until we get more conservatives in the Senate, it NEVER WILL BE. Nobody is saying this is good enough. Nobody is saying that this the end-all and be-all. It is a STEP, in the face of a hostile Washington lobby, toward a return to freedom.
One other thing: the No Never Caucus would like to have you believe that if we vote yes, there's no way any further progress will be made. Well, if the vote goes no, what makes you think that even greater repeal is ever going to happen?
See, I don't think I Yes vote or No vote makes a hill of beans difference. At least a No vote has some principle behind it instead of a Yes vote that shuffles the shells.
-
THE (promised) important Conservative Victory is to repeal the unConstitutional ACA. PERIOD. Anything less is capitulation, not victory.
We were promised repeal. No less than full repeal is adequate.
*****rollingeyes*****
The perfect is the enemy of the good. Jonah Goldberg wrote this morning that Rand Paul "has mastered the art of supporting the status quo by voting against piecemeal improvements in the name of purity."
He's a fool, pure and simple - and the rest of us will suffer for his foolishness.
-
See, I don't think I Yes vote or No vote makes a hill of beans difference. At least a No vote has some principle behind it instead of a Yes vote that shuffles the shells.
Yes, the principle that Obamacare is just fine and dandy, a vote that aligns oneself with Chuck Schumer. That's your principle.
-
Yes, the principle that Obamacare is just fine and dandy, a vote that aligns oneself with Chuck Schumer. That's your principle.
And it rests the blame solely where it belongs, on the Democrats for passing the damned thing in the first place.
-
The bill seems a wash to me, the big question is how much leeway do the states have? If they can make some of their own decisions they might help to bring down costs and set up a better system.
It's not a repeal, not even really a fix, just a slight improvement over the current system. Whether it will fly fiscally I do not know.
-
Do you think the Democrats got single-payer in one fell swoop? Surely you, much older than I, are not THAT naive!
YEAH, In fact they did.
-
YEAH, In fact they did.
Now I've read everything. :silly:
-
Supporting this bill may not repeal Obamacare outright, but opposing it leaves it all intact. I wish some of you would understand that.
Intact for another quarter, before it collapses. And I will take the collapse as a better option than a half fix by the supposed 'opposition', who should be hell bent to tear it out by the roots.
-
That's a lie and you know it. This is just childish, petulant game-playing that ensures people like me who want to opt-out of this mess of a health care system can't without Uncle Sam taking his pound of flesh anyway.
Bullshit.
You won;t be able to 'opt out' of the fix any better. Watch and see.
-
Obama care repeal is ENTIRELY in the hands of Congress. All Trump can do is sign repeal legislation. Don't blame Trump for the liars in Congress.
BULL. They're ALL guilty as the next. Including Trump.
-
Intact for another quarter, before it collapses. And I will take the collapse as a better option than a half fix by the supposed 'opposition', who should be hell bent to tear it out by the roots.
At this point.... the best option for the GOP is to let the damned thing collapse.... and then repeal is a given, logically. And hell.... as we already know.... the GOP is going to get the blame now for whatever happens anyway with ObieCare.... whether they pass anything or whether they don't pass anything. They might as well let it fail as it was always supposed to do.... and 'then' repeal should be a done deal. They could enact an emergency funding bill to cover all of those folks that are left hanging.... since taxpayers are going to be paying out the azz for those people ANYWAY.
-
At this point.... the best option for the GOP is to let the damned thing collapse.... and then repeal is a given, logically. And hell.... as we already know.... the GOP is going to get the blame now for whatever happens anyway with ObieCare.... whether they pass anything or whether they don't pass anything. They might as well let it fail as it was always supposed to do.... and 'then' repeal should be a done deal. They could enact an emergency funding bill to cover all of those folks that are left hanging.... since taxpayers are going to be paying out the azz for those people ANYWAY.
Intact for another quarter, before it collapses. And I will take the collapse as a better option than a half fix by the supposed 'opposition', who should be hell bent to tear it out by the roots.
Me wating for a government program to collapse:
(https://i.imgflip.com/1qkcaj.jpg)
-
*****rollingeyes*****
The perfect is the enemy of the good. Jonah Goldberg wrote this morning that Rand Paul "has mastered the art of supporting the status quo by voting against piecemeal improvements in the name of purity."
He's a fool, pure and simple - and the rest of us will suffer for his foolishness.
Actually the lesser evil is the greatest enemy of the good. it is the single degree by which the pot gets warmer and all the little froggies lose their ability to jump out when they realize just how hot the water is. It is that sufferable increment of tyranny which is the enemy of freedom, easily adapted to, tolerated with complaint, but not severe enough to provoke a backlash.
It is the gradation by which we have been robbed of incalculable Liberty in just my lifetime, and the method by which we continue to be robbed. With the unmitigated success of this coup over who lives or dies and who pays for it (often the people who can't afford the insurance but make enough to be taxed for it, unlike the sonsofbitches who imposed this but are immune to the law they passed for us), you want to piss around stopping this?
If not now, when will people stand for their Constitution, when their very lives and health are on the line?
This cannot be fixed in small bits, it needs to be cut our, every diseased cell of it.
-
Me wating for a government program to collapse:
Well..... let's put it this way. Obamacare will collapse on its own....
unless the RINOs in the GOP succeed in propping it up with their version of a Patch & Replace BS bill.
-
At this point.... the best option for the GOP is to let the damned thing collapse.... and then repeal is a given, logically. And hell.... as we already know.... the GOP is going to get the blame now for whatever happens anyway with ObieCare.... whether they pass anything or whether they don't pass anything. They might as well let it fail as it was always supposed to do.... and 'then' repeal should be a done deal. They could enact an emergency funding bill to cover all of those folks that are left hanging.... since taxpayers are going to be paying out the azz for those people ANYWAY.
No, At the point of collapse the Republicans will push single payer - We will have to battle harder to defeat that than ever before. It will be bipartisan and hawked by the president too.
But the failure is a better stance than the fix - the fix making the idea of government healthcare bipartisan... And thereby, without any opposition, so it can root in as deeply as it can.
-
No, At the point of collapse the Republicans will push single payer - We will have to battle harder to defeat that than ever before. It will be bipartisan and hawked by the president too.
But the failure is a better stance than the fix - the fix making the idea of government healthcare bipartisan... And thereby, without any opposition, so it can root in as deeply as it can.
That's..... what worries me the most right now. That the real ultimate goal of Trump (since he isn't exactly making any of those "great deals" to get rid of ObamaCare) is to implement single payer healthcare and to make it look like 'he had no choice'. He will take FULL credit for that accomplishment with his Democrat friends, of course....and his entire Democrat family will be thrilled.
-
Well..... let's put it this way. Obamacare will collapse on its own....
Like Social Security, or any other government program?
-
That's..... what worries me the most right now. That the real ultimate goal of Trump (since he isn't exactly making any of those "great deals" to get rid of ObamaCare) is to implement single payer healthcare and to make it look like 'he had no choice'. He will take FULL credit for that accomplishment with his Democrat friends, of course....and his entire Democrat family will be thrilled.
Recall, if you will how great he thought the Canadian and English systems are. We used to have Canadians coming down to the US for medical treatment all the time, especially if they had cancer or a heart condition, because the waiting lists up there were a death sentence.
-
That's..... what worries me the most right now. That the real ultimate goal of Trump (since he isn't exactly making any of those "great deals" to get rid of ObamaCare) is to implement single payer healthcare and to make it look like 'he had no choice'. He will take FULL credit for that accomplishment with his Democrat friends, of course....and his entire Democrat family will be thrilled.
That's right. He's been for single payer all the way along... which is why he (and others) stifled alternatives that would have repealed. This is what the garden path looks like... The only path they convince you not to take is the path out... Any other path you choose will lead to the central rose garden anyway.
-
Like Social Security, or any other government program?
Um.... if you are going to quote me, at least be honest enough to include the entire quote. Mkay?
unless the RINOs in the GOP succeed in propping it up with their version of a Patch & Replace BS bill.
-
Recall, if you will how great he thought the Canadian and English systems are. We used to have Canadians coming down to the US for medical treatment all the time, especially if they had cancer or a heart condition, because the waiting lists up there were a death sentence.
Which shows two things. One, that he was ill-informed even back then ...and/or Two, that he was stretching the truth (lying) and knew damned well that Canadians were having to come to the USA to get treatment because they had too long a waiting list in their great and grand socialist, single payer system country.
It may not have been true back then, but I predict that it will be true eventually.... ie Trump lied, people died. That may sound harsh, but if he ends up facilitating single-payer healthcare in the US (under his presidency).... it will come true. People are already dying waiting for treatment under the VA system (single payer) government run "healthcare" for US vets.
-
Which shows two things. One, that he was ill-informed even back then ...and/or Two, that he was stretching the truth (lying) and knew damned well that Canadians were having to come to the USA to get treatment because they had too long a waiting list in their great and grand socialist, single payer system country.
It may not have been true back then, but I predict that it will be true eventually.... ie Trump lied, people died. That may sound harsh, but if he ends up facilitating single-payer healthcare in the US (under his presidency).... it will come true. People are already dying waiting for treatment under the VA system (single payer) government run "healthcare" for US vets.
Theoretically, my wife and kids are covered under "Indian Health". I say "Theoretically", because that's how well that system operates. I considered it to be a poster child in the campaign against the ACA to begin with. There is nothing that the private sector can do that the government cannot do half as well at five times the expense, and only take three times as long to do it (if at all).
The bottom line is that government does not belong between me and my doctor. It has no business in the health insurance business.
-
That's right. He's been for single payer all the way along... which is why he (and others) stifled alternatives that would have repealed. This is what the garden path looks like... The only path they convince you not to take is the path out... Any other path you choose will lead to the central rose garden anyway.
But what you want is to jump straight to the exit, even though there are roadblocks in the way, and if they don't remove those roadblocks right now you're just going to stand right where you are, all while you're on a conveyor belt headed to that central rose garden.
Start by turning around!
-
But what you want is to jump straight to the exit, even though there are roadblocks in the way, and if they don't remove those roadblocks right now you're just going to stand right where you are, all while you're on a conveyor belt headed to that central rose garden.
Start by turning around!
You won't turn around - that's the problem.
-
Kudos to jmyrlefuller for his voice of reason. I've gotten weary of conservatives with blinders on, conservatives who'd rather keep ObamaCare if they can't achieve their impossible dream of outright repeal, conservatives who petulantly wish disaster on millions if they can't get their way.
This bill is a step forward, and one that deserves conservative support. It embodies the principles of federalism, by unleashing the states to come up with what's best to help those with lower incomes gain health coverage, and by changing O-Care from an unending entitlement to a fixed-cost (from the federal perspective) program of block grants.
The biggest flaw in the bill, IMO, is the elimination of the individual mandate while retaining the requirement that insurance address folks with pre-existing conditions. If it were me, I'd get rid of the jobs-killing employer mandate, but keep and even increase the individual mandate. A functional insurance market requires participation by the healthy as well as the sick. That's the purpose of the individual mandate. Without it, insurers are susceptible to the insurance death spiral, whereby the sick get paid but not enough of the healthy pay in. The easy fix for that is, of course, single payer, where the system is propped up by general taxation. To me, the best way to avoid single payer is to strike a simple bargain with folks - be responsible and help will be on the way if you get sick; be an irresponsible free rider, and you're on your own.
-
Kudos to jmyrlefuller for his voice of reason. I've gotten weary of conservatives with blinders on, conservatives who'd rather keep ObamaCare if they can't achieve their impossible dream of outright repeal, conservatives who petulantly wish disaster on millions if they can't get their way.
This bill is a step forward, and one that deserves conservative support. It embodies the principles of federalism, by unleashing the states to come up with what's best to help those with lower incomes gain health coverage, and by changing O-Care from an unending entitlement to a fixed-cost (from the federal perspective) program of block grants.
The biggest flaw in the bill, IMO, is the elimination of the individual mandate while retaining the requirement that insurance address folks with pre-existing conditions. If it were me, I'd get rid of the jobs-killing employer mandate, but keep and even increase the individual mandate. A functional insurance market requires participation by the healthy as well as the sick. That's the purpose of the individual mandate. Without it, insurers are susceptible to the insurance death spiral, whereby the sick get paid but not enough of the healthy pay in. The easy fix for that is, of course, single payer, where the system is propped up by general taxation. To me, the best way to avoid single payer is to strike a simple bargain with folks - be responsible and help will be on the way if you get sick; be an irresponsible free rider, and you're on your own.
Completely 100% wrong. It doesn't empower the states. The Feds still controls everything. It just rearranges deck chairs.
This is a Republican establishment shell game...and it WILL lead to single payer.
But then deep down I think that's what you want anyway.
-
Completely 100% wrong. It doesn't empower the states. The Feds still controls everything. It just rearranges deck chairs.
This is a Republican establishment shell game...and it WILL lead to single payer.
But then deep down I think that's what you want anyway.
Don't know if he wants "single payer," but he's stated repeatedly he wants the Republican brand stamped on Obamacare.
-
Completely 100% wrong. It doesn't empower the states. The Feds still controls everything.
Please explain what you mean, with specifics.
-
Please explain what you mean, with specifics.
Graham/Cassidy keeps ObamaCare funding and regulations in place. Oh, it rearranges the furniture a bit, changes some names, and otherwise masks what is really going on – a redistribution of ObamaCare taxes and a new Republican entitlement program, funded nearly as extravagantly as ObamaCare.
Graham/Cassidy doesn’t repeal a single ObamaCare insurance regulation. All of the Title 1 rules, the Essential Health Benefit rules, all of them - they’re still in place here.
People will still be required to have healthcare even if they are young healthy and don't want it. This new "lite" version of the ACA still has the states going to the Federal Government on bended knee to ask for exceptions to policy to run their health care insurance differently that what the Feds will require.
Unless the Federal meddling into health insurance and the health care system stop and they return it the private sector where it belongs, any "fix" is destined to fail.
And when it fails welcome to the worst case scenario, single payer.
-
Don't know if he wants "single payer," but he's stated repeatedly he wants the Republican brand stamped on Obamacare.
And when the Republican "fix" fails, and it will if it's passed, the Dems will then use that as Exhibit A of why the country needs single payer healthcare fully managed by the Federal Government.
And they'll get it too because they will make the Republicans the scapegoat for the Liberals failed program.
People supporting these "fixes" are only helping to speed up the inevitable.
-
I am unable to find the actual bill in question here but IF the writer of the story linked to below is correct I'm all for it!
https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy
-
I am unable to find the actual bill in question here but IF the writer of the story linked to below is correct I'm all for it!
https://www.vox.com/health-care/2017/9/20/16333338/obamacare-repeal-graham-cassidy
I'm not believing anything that comes from any publication run by Ezra Klein.
Neither should you.