The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: Elderberry on April 10, 2021, 04:50:11 pm
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American Military News by Jane Harper - The Virginian Pilot April 09, 2021
Video: 2 police officers threatened and assaulted Army officer during an illegal stop, lawsuit claims
Caron Nazario was driving his brand new SUV through the town of Windsor last December when he saw a police cruiser signal for him to pull over.
The Army second lieutenant slowed down on U.S. Route 460, flipped on his turn signal, and looked for a lighted place to pull over because it was dark outside, according to a lawsuit filed last week in U.S. District Court in Norfolk.
Less than a mile away, Nazario saw a BP gas station. He drove his Chevrolet Tahoe into the parking area and stopped, the lawsuit said.
In the meantime, Windsor Police Officer Daniel Crocker radioed he was attempting to pull over a vehicle with no rear license plate and tinted windows. He said the driver was “eluding police†and he considered it a “high-risk traffic stop,†according to a report he submitted afterward and was included in the court filing. The written report acknowledged, however, that the SUV was traveling at a low rate of speed.
Another officer, Joe Gutierrez, was driving by when he heard Crocker’s call, saw him attempting to pull the vehicle over, and decided to join the traffic stop. What happened after that has been disputed by the officers and Nazario.
But the police officers’ own body cam footage — and a cellphone recording made by Nazario — back up the Army lieutenant’s version of events, according to his attorney, Jonathan Arthur of Richmond.
“It’s all right there in the footage,†the attorney said.
More: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/04/video-2-police-officers-threatened-and-assaulted-army-officer-during-an-illegal-stop-lawsuit-claims/ (https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/04/video-2-police-officers-threatened-and-assaulted-army-officer-during-an-illegal-stop-lawsuit-claims/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XKe-IK0n0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XKe-IK0n0)
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The sad,sad truth is that most of the cops these days are idiots,and that might even be bragging on them.
I went through a similar,but MUCH less threatening thing a few months ago. Had a highway patrolman heading towards me as I entered a 45 MPH speed zone and slowing down,do a sudden U-Turn and put on his flashers. I figured he got an emergency call and was heading that way,so I paid no attention to it. Then,suddenly,he was right up on my rear bumper.
This was in a 4 lane with no where to pull out of the traffic lane except for people's driveways,so I decided to drive on for maybe another 50 yards to pull off into a shopping center parking lot where we would both be safe from traffic.
He was SERIOUSLY pissed when he ran up to my car window. I would see a vein throbbing in his forehead,so naturally,I asked him "Why are you stopping me?" He said I was going 66 in a 45. I looked at my speedo when he pulled in behind me,and I was running 62 MPH in a 50 MPH zone,but had just started slowing down.
I thought the stupid SOB was going to try to drag me out of the truck.
And this was maybe 2 PM on a weekday afternoon,with sun in the sky and light traffic.
Then he started screaming at me for not immediately stopping when he pulled in behind me. I told him I didn't want to stop in a traffic lane on a 4 lane highway when there was a whole freaking shopping center parking lot to pull off in just up the road,and since I hadn't tried to speed up to avoid him,I figured he would be smart enough to figure that out.
That seemed to make the little freak even madder. Someone had questioned his "Author-a-tay".
First speeding ticket for me in over 30 years.
Now *I* have an attitude,and if he stops me again it could get ugly.
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All I saw was a person that thought he was above the law and didn't respond to multiple orders and because of it, I hope he spend a few nights in jail.
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All I saw was a person that thought he was above the law and didn't respond to multiple orders and because of it, I hope he spend a few nights in jail.
@Sighlass
You blame him for not responding in a positive way to "stoopid"?
Just WHAT did he do or say that put either one of those cops in danger?
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How could he be charged with "Abreach of the Peace"?
He sure looked peaceful to me on the video.
And the "Conservator of the Peace" sure didn't look peaceful at all to me. They should strip him of that title.
2006 Code of Virginia § 18.2-464 - Failure to obey order of conservator of the peace
18.2-464. Failure to obey order of conservator of the peace.
If any person, being required by a conservator of the peace on view of abreach of the peace or other offense to bring before him the offender, refuseor neglect to obey the conservator of the peace, he shall be guilty of aClass 2 misdemeanor; and if the conservator of the peace declare himself orbe known to be such to the person so refusing or neglecting, ignorance of hisoffice shall not be pleaded as an excuse.
(Code 1950, 18.1-302; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)
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American Military News by Jane Harper - The Virginian Pilot April 09, 2021
Video: 2 police officers threatened and assaulted Army officer during an illegal stop, lawsuit claims
Caron Nazario was driving his brand new SUV through the town of Windsor last December when he saw a police cruiser signal for him to pull over.
The Army second lieutenant slowed down on U.S. Route 460, flipped on his turn signal, and looked for a lighted place to pull over because it was dark outside, according to a lawsuit filed last week in U.S. District Court in Norfolk.
Less than a mile away, Nazario saw a BP gas station. He drove his Chevrolet Tahoe into the parking area and stopped, the lawsuit said.
In the meantime, Windsor Police Officer Daniel Crocker radioed he was attempting to pull over a vehicle with no rear license plate and tinted windows. He said the driver was “eluding police†and he considered it a “high-risk traffic stop,†according to a report he submitted afterward and was included in the court filing. The written report acknowledged, however, that the SUV was traveling at a low rate of speed.
Another officer, Joe Gutierrez, was driving by when he heard Crocker’s call, saw him attempting to pull the vehicle over, and decided to join the traffic stop. What happened after that has been disputed by the officers and Nazario.
But the police officers’ own body cam footage — and a cellphone recording made by Nazario — back up the Army lieutenant’s version of events, according to his attorney, Jonathan Arthur of Richmond.
“It’s all right there in the footage,†the attorney said.
More: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/04/video-2-police-officers-threatened-and-assaulted-army-officer-during-an-illegal-stop-lawsuit-claims/ (https://americanmilitarynews.com/2021/04/video-2-police-officers-threatened-and-assaulted-army-officer-during-an-illegal-stop-lawsuit-claims/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XKe-IK0n0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_XKe-IK0n0)
I support police. How MANY TIMES...does it have to be said to "shut down your vehicle?" "PUT YOUR HANDS OUT THE WINDOW " . "GET OUT OF THE CAR." These guys inside the suspect car are the IDIOTS. NOT COMPLYING or listening to officers. Everybody is 'special' now. These are sociopaths in the car. 'RULES DON'T APPLY TO THEM". I would throw the book at them. azzholes. No license plates. POLICE DON'T KNOW IF IT IS A STOLEN CAR...OR NOT.
Watching the video, I wanted to slap the ignorant driver.
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All I saw was a person that thought he was above the law and didn't respond to multiple orders and because of it, I hope he spend a few nights in jail.
Correct. The driver was in the wrong. SOCIOPATHS...don't think rules apply to, themselves.
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All I saw was a person that thought he was above the law and didn't respond to multiple orders and because of it, I hope he spend a few nights in jail.
If two cops are pointing their weapons at me and screaming at me to put my hands out the window, and telling me to get out the car (which would require I reach down and release my seatbelt) at the same time I'd do exactly what this guy did - keep my hands out the window.
I'm reminded of that poor guy at a Cosco down in Vegas a few years back who, when told to show his hands and drop his (legal) handgun at the same time, chose wrongly and suffered two magazines full of 15 rounds ea for his trouble.
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@Sighlass
You blame him for not responding in a positive way to "stoopid"?
Just WHAT did he do or say that put either one of those cops in danger?
Totally in the wrong. The police don't know, WHO is behind the wheel. Could be a stolen car, with some desperate person at the wheel. WHY, WHY, WHY...did he not comply with multiple requests? POLICE ARE NOT MIND READERS, as some of you want them to be. Many cases, a policeman walks up to a car and the PERP KILLS THEM.
The driver in the car was not listening to orders! THEY..DON'T...KNOW....YOU! ANY OF YOU.
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If two cops are pointing their weapons at me and screaming at me to put my hands out the window, and telling me to get out the car (which would require I reach down and release my seatbelt) at the same time I'd do exactly what this guy did - keep my hands out the window.
I'm reminded of that poor guy at a Cosco down in Vegas a few years back who, when told to show his hands and drop his (legal) handgun at the same time, chose wrongly and suffered two full 15 rounds for his trouble.
This is where communication comes into play. The DRIVER WAS NOT COMPLYING AND STRETCHING THINGS OUT...
why? Then say," my seatbelt is on" ..
I know the Vegas story and that Costco. I lived there for 46 years. That was a wrongful death.
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Just curious. Did you come from a "Police State"?
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The "special ignorant driver," slapped away the policeman's hand! Oh my gosh! Yes, he thinks he is SPECIAL. He says it!
SOCIOPATH...
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Aren't you Special too?
I like to think that we are All Special in our Own Ways.
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Aren't you Special too?
I like to think that we are All Special in our Own Ways.
Are you talking to me? THE HEADLINE IS WRONG AND BACKWARDS.
Army private is smart mouth, foul mouthed, and does not comply with police request.
I am a law abiding citizen. That young man needs a smack up side his head! NO ILLEGAL STOP. Didn't it say no license plates? Could have been a stolen car. I have common sense, so I guess you could call me, special in this day and age.
The driver of this car is so OUT OF LINE.... Shows his SOCIOPATHNESS BY DOING A FRIVOLOUS LAWSUIT.
IN THE END TIMES...good will be called bad and bad will be good. HERE IT IS, IN VIDEO.
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In the meantime, Windsor Police Officer Daniel Crocker radioed he was attempting to pull over a vehicle with no rear license plate and tinted windows. He said the driver was “eluding police†and he cons= ARTICLE.
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Totally in the wrong. The police don't know, WHO is behind the wheel. Could be a stolen car, with some desperate person at the wheel. WHY, WHY, WHY...did he not comply with multiple requests? POLICE ARE NOT MIND READERS, as some of you want them to be. Many cases, a policeman walks up to a car and the PERP KILLS THEM.
The driver in the car was not listening to orders! THEY..DON'T...KNOW....YOU! ANY OF YOU.
@LegalAmerican
This is America. The police are NOT our masters,and they have no right to threaten citizens who are not making overt threats to them.
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In the meantime, Windsor Police Officer Daniel Crocker radioed he was attempting to pull over a vehicle with no rear license plate and tinted windows. He said the driver was “eluding police†and he cons= ARTICLE.
@LegalAmerican
He should be arrested for filing a fraudulent police report.
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@LegalAmerican
This is America. The police are NOT our masters,and they have no right to threaten citizens who are not making overt threats to them.
They saw a car with NO LICENSE PLATES and tinted windows, which was against the law too, as one cannot SEE, who is in the car. Police, DO NOT KNOW ANYONE IN A CAR. No tags to even run. They saw a vehicle, no tags, NOT COMPLYING by their behaviors. Then resisting every step of the way. The young man was totally in the wrong, disrespectful and not law abiding. THE VIDEO SHOWS THAT. Any problem, all on that driver. The police showed all kind of restraint. Most would have blown the IDIOT way. The idiot at one point, he even SLAPS AWAY, THE POLICEMAN'S HAND. THE NERVE! Then the cussing. Can you imagine having to deal with this insanity....everyday? EVERY DAY? SEVERAL TIMES A DAY? Like this driver who is in the wrong? The TITLE OF THIS THREAD IS ALL WRONG TOO.
ZERO ILLEGAL STOP.
POLICE JUST DOING THEIR JOB. NO THREAT.
DRIVER PUNK ASSAULTED A POLICE MAN BY SLAPPING POLICEMAN HAND.
SOCIOPATH IS LYING, AS IS THE ARTICLE.
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@LegalAmerican
He should be arrested for filing a fraudulent police report.
1,000% disagree. Driver had, NO LICENSE PLATE AND TINTED WINDOWS. BOTH AGAINST THE LAW. These policemen showed great restraint with an azzhole driver. Resisted at every turn.
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Virginia governor orders investigation of Caron Nazario police traffic stop
The Guardian 4/11/2021
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/11/virginia-governor-ralph-northam-disturbed-angered-caron-nazario-traffic-stop-police-officers-lawsuit (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/apr/11/virginia-governor-ralph-northam-disturbed-angered-caron-nazario-traffic-stop-police-officers-lawsuit)
The governor of Virginia, Ralph Northam, said on Sunday he was “disturbed and angered†by an incident in which an army lieutenant was threatened, knocked down and pepper-sprayed by two police officers during a traffic stop.
The Democrat said he had directed state police to investigate, and that he had invited Lt Caron Nazario to meet him soon.
Nazario had his hands up, the suit says, and offered no resistance but was pepper-sprayed, knocked to the ground and detained. Ultimately the police chief arrived at the scene and Nazario was released without charge, the suit says.
After the altercation, the suit says Officer Gutierrez said he understood why Nazario looked for a lighted place to pull over, saying: “I get it, the media spewing race relations between law enforcement and minorities. I get it.â€
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Army Officer Suing 2 Virginia Police Officers After Violent Traffic Stop Footage Goes Viral
People By Nicholas Rice April 11, 2021
https://people.com/crime/army-officer-suing-virginia-police-officers-violent-traffic-stop/ (https://people.com/crime/army-officer-suing-virginia-police-officers-violent-traffic-stop/)
Lt. Caron Nazario is seeking $1 million in compensatory damages
After being pepper-sprayed, and with his eyes closed, Nazario was brought to the ground of the gas station and handcuffed. "Why am I being treated like this? Why?" Nazario asks, to which one of the officers replies, "Because you're not cooperating."
Nazario's lawsuit, which was filed in US District Court, claims unlawful seizure, excessive force, illegal search, violating his First Amendment right to free speech, and common law assault, battery and false imprisonment, according to CNN.
"These cameras captured footage of behavior consistent with a disgusting nationwide trend of law enforcement officers, who, believing they can operate with complete impunity, engage in unprofessional, discourteous, racially biased, dangerous, and sometimes deadly abuses of authority, (including issuing unreasonable comply-or-die commands,) ignore the clearly established mandates of the Constitution of these United States and the state and local laws, and usurp the roles of legislator, judge, jury, and executioner; substituting the rule of law for their arbitrary and illegal conduct," the complaint said.
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They saw a car with NO LICENSE PLATES and tinted windows, which was against the law too, as one cannot SEE, who is in the car.
@LegalAmerican
The car DID have a temporary license tag taped inside the rear window,as required by law. The cop either just didn't see it,or saw there was no plate on the rear bumper and jumped to the wrong conclusion.
As for the tinted glass,it was a brand new automobile with FACTORY TINTED WINDOWS.
Police, DO NOT KNOW ANYONE IN A CAR. No tags to even run.
Once again,they were there,and he just didn't see them. Probably the fact that it was after dark had a role to play in that,but I am just guessing.
They saw a vehicle, no tags, NOT COMPLYING by their behaviors. Then resisting every step of the way.
HORSEHILLARY! Where the hell are you from,anyway? 1930's Germany?
He (btw,there was no "they") did NOT "resist" their "Autho-ri-TAY" in any way. Since it was dark,he decided to pull off the road and stop at a lighted gas station just ahead. I would have done the same thing,and did just that a short while ago.
Just because the cops are stupid enough to stop in the middle of the road and possibly cause an accident,that doesn't mean you have to be that stupid.
The young man was totally in the wrong, disrespectful and not law abiding.
Well,I guess we should just insist he be backed against a wall and shot,right?
BTW,once again WHAT laws did he break?
THE VIDEO SHOeWS THAT. Any problem, all on that driver. The police showed all kind of restraint. Most would have blown the IDIOT way. The idiot at one point, he even SLAPS AWAY, THE POLICEMAN'S HAND. THE NERVE! Then the cussing. Can you imagine having to deal with this insanity....everyday? EVERY DAY? SEVERAL TIMES A DAY? Like this driver who is in the wrong? The TITLE OF THIS THREAD IS ALL WRONG TOO.
Are you on drugs? Seriously.
ZERO ILLEGAL STOP.
POLICE JUST DOING THEIR JOB. NO THREAT.
DRIVER PUNK ASSAULTED A POLICE MAN BY SLAPPING POLICEMAN HAND.
SOCIOPATH IS LYING, AS IS THE ARTICLE.
I have never said this to any immigrant to the US before,but you should have remained where you were before you came here. You and America are just NOT a "good fit".
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Virginia officer accused of force in stop of Black Army officer fired
Fox News 4/12/2021
https://www.foxnews.com/us/officer-accused-of-force-in-stop-of-black-army-officer-fired (https://www.foxnews.com/us/officer-accused-of-force-in-stop-of-black-army-officer-fired)
One of two police officers accused of pepper-spraying and pointing their guns at a Black Army officer during a traffic stop has since been fired, a Virginia town announced late Sunday, hours after the governor called for an independent investigation into the case.
The town of Windsor said in a statement that it joined calls from election officials, including Gov. Ralph Northam, in requesting an investigation by Virginia State Police into the December 2020 encounter in which two Windsor officers were accused of drawing their guns, pointing them at U.S. Army second lieutenant Caron Nazario and using a slang term to suggest he was facing execution.
"The Town of Windsor prides itself in its small-town charm and the community-wide respect of its Police Department," the statement said. "Due to this, we are saddened for events like this to cast our community in a negative light. Rather than deflect criticism, we have addressed these matters with our personnel administratively, we are reaching out to community stakeholders to engage in dialogue, and commit ourselves to additional discussions in the future."
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Some other viewpoints:
Greg Kelly
@gregkellyusa
One more little “tidbit†—the Bad Lieutenant Nazario had a loaded GUN on the floor of the car. In the front seat. By his Leg. Something the CORRUPT folks in the Media won’t say for some “reasonâ€
7:57 PM · Apr 11, 2021
Greg Kelly
@gregkellyusa
ANY COP would want to know if BAD LT NAZARIO had a gun in his car. Slow speed chase 1.5 miles, improper NON DISPLAY of his License plate. DOESN’T COMPLY w/orders. Cop is Latino: (Goes against “race†narrative) NONE OF IT in FAKE NEWS ‘report.
10:40 PM · Apr 11, 2021
John Cardillo
@johncardillo
This story is falling apart at light speed.
Nazario refused to stop for over a mile, had no visible rear tag, was 100% non compliant when he did stop, and had a gun in plain view.
Cops would have been nuts NOT TO treat this as a felony stop.
7:56 AM · Apr 12, 2021·
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Officer Tatum presents his opinion. He says that the Lieutenant was wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBMnJyOiT0
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And still Officer Joe Gutierrez was fired.
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Virginia officer who pepper sprayed Army officer fired
In a statement released on Sunday, the Windsor Police Department said it conducted an investigation into Gutierrez’s use of force, which determined that department policy “was not followed.â€
“At the conclusion of this investigation, it was determined that Windsor Police Department policy was not followed,†the department wrote in a statement.
“This resulted in disciplinary action, and department-wide requirements for additional training were implemented beginning in January and continue up to the present. Since that time, Officer Gutierrez was also terminated from his employment,†the department added.
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/547624-virginia-officer-who-pepper-sprayed-army-officer-fired
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And still Officer Joe Gutierrez was fired.
Good. You could tell the other officer was uncomfortable with the manner Gutierrez handled the situation.
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@LegalAmerican
The car DID have a temporary license tag taped inside the rear window,as required by law. The cop either just didn't see it,or saw there was no plate on the rear bumper and jumped to the wrong conclusion.
As for the tinted glass,it was a brand new automobile with FACTORY TINTED WINDOWS.
Once again,they were there,and he just didn't see them. Probably the fact that it was after dark had a role to play in that,but I am just guessing.
HORSEHILLARY! Where the hell are you from,anyway? 1930's Germany?
He (btw,there was no "they") did NOT "resist" their "Autho-ri-TAY" in any way. Since it was dark,he decided to pull off the road and stop at a lighted gas station just ahead. I would have done the same thing,and did just that a short while ago.
Just because the cops are stupid enough to stop in the middle of the road and possibly cause an accident,that doesn't mean you have to be that stupid.
Well,I guess we should just insist he be backed against a wall and shot,right?
BTW,once again WHAT laws did he break?
Are you on drugs? Seriously.
I have never said this to any immigrant to the US before,but you should have remained where you were before you came here. You and America are just NOT a "good fit".
Well nice try at trying to psychoanalyze me. Shall I do you now? How about making your point without all the personal attacks? You aren't capable of being decent, making a point, without personal attacks? I did not know about tags in any WINDOW. Last I heard, dark tint is not allowed as people can't see inside. See who is driving. That has practical issues.
I saw the video. The driver was acting like a baby. Yeah, that is what we need in the military. WONDER HOW WELL HE TAKES HIS ORDERS THERE?
All the driver HAD to do, was comply with police. HE DIDN'T. I FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE LAND. You all act like police should be clairvoyant. SEE IN THE DARK. BE PERFECT PEOPLE. Let us assume, the police were in the wrong.
WHY DIDN'T THE AZZHOLE DRIVER JUST COMPLY? They asked him a few things, to determine, about tags.
All the azzhole driver had to do was comply. SHOW THEM HIS TAG IN THE WINDOW. The driver was making the issue worse. THE DRIVER IS TOTALLY IN THE WRONG. He sure didn't 'act' innocent'. Ignorant. Resisting officers. I would guess, everyone WANTS to resist a policeman. Police get tired of that.
Wrong call if officer was fired. Now, it is the END TIMES. GOOD IS MADE OUT TO BE BAD, AND BAD MADE OUT TO BE GOOD. THAT IS WHERE WE ARE.....NOW. The driver was in the wrong. THE DRIVER ESCALATED THE SITUATION.
I am a law abiding citizen. You..aren't.
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Good. You could tell the other officer was uncomfortable with the manner Gutierrez handled the situation.
The other officer was uncomfortable, NOT KNOWING, how much more crazy and resisting the driver would become.
The driver escalated the situation. The driver could have started shooting at police. Police don't know, WHY, a person is not complying. The DRIVER had the audacity to slap the policeman's hand! People are just afraid of more riots.
No one knew, WHO, the driver....was. He was an azzhole.
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Some other viewpoints:
@mountaineer
Been a long time since I lived in Va,but the best I can remember,it is NOT illegal to carry a loaded gun in your car if it is not concealed.
I know some of you are getting the vapors over this,but you are just being hysterical.
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Officer Tatum presents his opinion. He says that the Lieutenant was wrong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBMnJyOiT0
Thank you, thank you Verga. I just saw this, after Sneaky excoriated me for being CORRECT. OFFICER TATUM, knows more about this, than I do. LEGAL STOP. SNEAKY owes me an apology.
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If it was a "Legal Stop", why was the Officer Fired?
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Thank you, thank you Verga. I just saw this, after Sneaky excoriated me for being CORRECT. OFFICER TATUM, knows more about this, than I do. LEGAL STOP. SNEAKY owes me an apology.
@LegalAmerican
Ok,to start with,this guy is full of Bush. MANY temporary tags are not made of cardboard,but of paper,and are glued to the rear window. He is either a retard,a liar,or from a state that doesn't offer paper tags and not bright enough to check to see if Va does.
I had one in the rear window of an old Buick I bought off of a used car lot when I was living in Denver,and was stopped by the Denver PD for "failure to display a license tag" when the glue let go and it fell in the floor. Cops stopped me and asked me where my tag was,I said "Huh?",and we both saw it sitting in the floor in the rear of the car. Cops told me to get some tape and tape it back up,and went away. Something similar is what SHOULD have happened with the LT.
AND.......,on top of that,traffic stops that lead to the cold-blooded murder of cops like the video he shows are 1 in 100,000 stops,or maybe even fewer. This does NOT mean it is not a real concern,though. In fact,the one shown in the video with the idiot gunning down the cop gets me steamed. It was nothing less than cold-blooded murder. I regret that he ended up killed in a gun fight with police because the SOB should be forced to spend decades suffering while locked up in a freaking cage. Preferably while suffering from wounds received when they got him.
In fact,that is the ONLY argument that makes me ALMOST see the benefit to ending the death penalty. Which causes the most suffering,being executed or spending decades locked away in a maximum security prison?
Not to mention,you execute a prisoner,it has an emotional impact on the other prisoners for a week,maybe two weeks. You lock one away alone forever,and and every other prisoner in that prison is aware of what his life is like on a daily basis,and it just MIGHT make some of them think about the consequences if they don't change their lives.
Then again,that is a lot of "mights" strung together,and one sure thing is if you execute a prisoner,you don't have to spend even one thin dime on him from that moment forward. No guards have to be paid to babysit him,no food,no medical care,no haircuts,no electricity for lights or heat,no nothing but a plot in the dirt. There is a lot to be said for that.
BTW,even though I see the officer's request for the man to give up the AR TEMPORARILY during the traffic stop to be VERY reasonable,I do have a good friend who tried to commit suicide with his 30/30 carbine,and flinched as he pulled the trigger. He didn't die,but he sure did destroy his shoulder. The local cops seized the rifle for evidence,of course. Which is normal and expected.
What WASN'T normal and expected is that it took him a couple of years to get the Chief of Police to return his rifle to him. The excuse given was "he was holding it as evidence in a future potential trial",but he was also seen deer hunting with it.
Still,when a lone cop stops you,sees something like a CAR-15 on your truck seat,and asks you to hand the weapon over/push it away out of reach,etc,etc,etc,that is a discussion you are NOT going to win by the side of the road and you are a fool to try. If there is any argument you want to make about it,the time and the place is in a courtroom later on.
After all,the worse thing that CAN happen if you do NOT agree to give it up IS what is going to happen if you refuse because the cops and everyone else will automatically assume you had evil intent on your mind at the time the request was made,or you would have handed it over.
I think the technical legal term for that is "Eat UP with the dumbass!"
AND......,NONE of this applies to anything related to the Lt's case. As has been mentioned already,the Windsor,Va Chief of Police has already fired the patrol officer who sprayed the Lt. If THAT doesn't tell you something,you just ain't listening. Chances are good this wasn't his first Rodeo with citizen complaints about unjustified use of force.
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POS. Piece of shyt. I said azzhole. Sneaky your punishment for being so rude and nasty to me, is watch OFFICER TATUM......10 TIMES.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBMnJyOiT0
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POS. Piece of shyt. I said azzhole. Sneaky your punishment for being so rude and nasty to me, is watch OFFICER TATUM......10 TIMES.
@LegalAmerican
Yeah,I will get right on that.
Honest.
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Online sneakypete
Re: 2 police officers threatened and assaulted Army officer during an illegal stop, lawsuit claims:
« Reply #35 on: Today at 02:18:18 PM »
Quote
You are ignoring this user.
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Online sneakypete
Re: 2 police officers threatened and assaulted Army officer during an illegal stop, lawsuit claims:
« Reply #35 on: Today at 02:18:18 PM »
Quote
@LegalAmerican
AND???????
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Love, love officer Tatum! "Where's Waldo". lol Military? This guy can't follow orders! I hope he is released from military.
What a lousy character. CAUSING PROBLEMS ON PURPOSE. Everything this guy, POS, is saying, after in handcuffs, is a LIE.
LOVE, LOVE OFFICER TATUM! I know, right from wrong. Some don't. "Police were 100 % right, in what they did". =Tatum
Frivolous lawsuit. Wanting money. Wanting attention. SOCIOPATH. YOUR TAX DOLLARS.....
Army officer, threatened and assaulted 2 police officers during a legal stop.
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I know some of you are getting the vapors over this,but you are just being hysterical.
I'm not one of them. I've expressed no opinion on this matter.
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I'm not one of them. I've expressed no opinion on this matter.
IMO its not a black or white matter. Officer Gutierrez was a jerk & escalated unnecessarily but things would've been fine had the 2nd Lt not copped an attitude.
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IMO its not a black or white matter. Officer Gutierrez was a jerk & escalated unnecessarily but things would've been fine had the 2nd Lt not copped an attitude.
I don't see that. Officer was trying to get AZZHOLE in car to comply. OFFICER TATUM, says officer who was a corporal in military, DEESCALATED the situation. Tatum, then explains, how. Did you watch the whole video? Normally you see things very clearly. Yes, azzhole in car had major attitude.
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I don't see that. Officer was trying to get AZZHOLE in car to comply. OFFICER TATUM, says officer who was a corporal in military, DEESCALATED the situation. Tatum, then explains, how. Did you watch the whole video? Normally you see things very clearly. Yes, azzhole in car had major attitude.
Yeah I watched it. The cops' tension level was critical the very moment the guy's car rolled to a stop. As I said earlier, the driver was stuck in dicey situation when they pointed their guns at him, told him to show his hands AND exit the vehicle. In that situation with cops in an agitated state I am not gonna do ANYTHING with my hands but keep them out the window, making exiting the car kinda tough.
On the other hand once Gutierrez approached his window making conversation possible the Lt should have calmly complied. And Gutierrez should've tried to de-escalate.
Not a cop but like everyone else I have an opinion - there is blame to go around but the police set the tone early on.
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IMO its not a black or white matter. Officer Gutierrez was a jerk & escalated unnecessarily but things would've been fine had the 2nd Lt not copped an attitude.
@skeeter
Agreed,but as he was the offended party,he kinda had a right to cop an attitude.
After all,this is STILL America,and we have a right to protest ill treatment by the police,right?
Some would say we even have an OBLIGATION to protest un-Constitutional treatment by the police because traditionally,that is where tyranny begins to flourish.
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@skeeter
Agreed,but as he was the offended party,he kinda had a right to cop an attitude.
After all,this is STILL America,and we have a right to protest ill treatment by the police,right?
Some would say we even have an OBLIGATION to protest un-Constitutional treatment by the police because traditionally,that is where tyranny begins to flourish.
Of course I agree but being a practical person I would've prioritized not getting shot over pressing my constitutional prerogatives. yogi555
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Of course I agree but being a practical person I would've prioritized not getting shot over pressing my constitutional prerogatives. yogi555
@skeeter
No question about it,you DO make a valid point!
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Yeah I watched it. The cops' tension level was critical the very moment the guy's car rolled to a stop. As I said earlier, the driver was stuck in dicey situation when they pointed their guns at him, told him to show his hands AND exit the vehicle. In that situation with cops in an agitated state I am not gonna do ANYTHING with my hands but keep them out the window, making exiting the car kinda tough.
On the other hand once Gutierrez approached his window making conversation possible the Lt should have calmly complied. And Gutierrez should've tried to de-escalate.
Not a cop but like everyone else I have an opinion - there is blame to go around but the police set the tone early on.
Yes, because it took azzhole, one and a half mile of driving...before he stopped for police. He then situated all of his inside cameras in his vehicle for some 15 MINUTES of fame and YouTube video. He did not let his foot off the car brakes. He did not comply putting his hands out the window, etc. How many times does it have to be said to a person? Then he asks, 'whats going on?" Please watch OFFICER TATUM from the beginning. Tatum was on the police force. I believe some military experience too. (I might be wrong on that.) The DRIVER SET THE TONE...by not pulling over and having attitude. Not mad at you. You seem reasonable. This is all I have to say.
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The pigs exceeded their authority.
The driver of the car was an idiot.
Then again, there was no reason for the pigs to draw weapons as they did. Sorry, it's a shitty job, but the pigs have to have PROBABLE CAUSE to use force.
Then again, God only knows why the moron driving the car needed to told a thousand times to open the window, shut the car off and stick his hands out of the window. Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop. Clearly the driver was trying to create a Rodney King Moment.
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Totally in the wrong. The police don't know, WHO is behind the wheel. Could be a stolen car, with some desperate person at the wheel. WHY, WHY, WHY...did he not comply with multiple requests? POLICE ARE NOT MIND READERS, as some of you want them to be. Many cases, a policeman walks up to a car and the PERP KILLS THEM.
The driver in the car was not listening to orders! THEY..DON'T...KNOW....YOU! ANY OF YOU.
Too bad for them. All the pigs had was a new car and stereotyping.
THEY initiated the confrontation by drawing weapons. if they're afraid on their job, they need to find a new line of work.
They had no probable cause for anything but an interview.
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In the meantime, Windsor Police Officer Daniel Crocker radioed he was attempting to pull over a vehicle with no rear license plate and tinted windows. He said the driver was “eluding police†and he cons= ARTICLE.
Agree that driving over a mile "to find a lighted area" was unnecessary provocation and stirred up the pigs.
The pigs are supposed to act rationally, not emotionally, like that fat one did. HE was so stupid he couldn't even read standard military insignia.
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They saw a car with NO LICENSE PLATES and tinted windows, which was against the law too, as one cannot SEE, who is in the car. Police, DO NOT KNOW ANYONE IN A CAR. No tags to even run. They saw a vehicle, no tags, NOT COMPLYING by their behaviors. Then resisting every step of the way. The young man was totally in the wrong, disrespectful and not law abiding. THE VIDEO SHOWS THAT. Any problem, all on that driver. The police showed all kind of restraint. Most would have blown the IDIOT way. The idiot at one point, he even SLAPS AWAY, THE POLICEMAN'S HAND. THE NERVE! Then the cussing. Can you imagine having to deal with this insanity....everyday? EVERY DAY? SEVERAL TIMES A DAY? Like this driver who is in the wrong? The TITLE OF THIS THREAD IS ALL WRONG TOO.
ZERO ILLEGAL STOP.
POLICE JUST DOING THEIR JOB. NO THREAT.
DRIVER PUNK ASSAULTED A POLICE MAN BY SLAPPING POLICEMAN HAND.
SOCIOPATH IS LYING, AS IS THE ARTICLE.
What's the difference between driving an SUV with heavy window tint and driving a cargo-van with no windows except the front doors and windshield, from a pig-safety viewpoint? Would the cops have been justified in stopping him if he'd driven an old Vandura with junk blocking the back windows, like I used to?
I was stopped for a taillight once. The cops walked right up to the driver's window and said "I can't see your hands". I said "oops" and put them on the steering wheel.
So the pigs need to see into a private vehicle for what reasons, again?
Window tint prohibitions makes what kind of sense?
I recall some time ago where some local TV hack got a ticket for window tinting. So he took his camera crew to the parking lot of the local police station and showed everyone all the tinted windows on the personal vehicles owned by the pigs.
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IMO its not a black or white matter. Officer Gutierrez was a jerk & escalated unnecessarily but things would've been fine had the 2nd Lt not copped an attitude.
Diversity hire?
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@Sled Dog
PLEASE do not refer LEO's as pigs!
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And still Officer Joe Gutierrez was fired.
That's good news.
His job was to defuse the situation.
He made it even worse.
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That's good news.
His job was to defuse the situation.
He made it even worse.
Which is my whole point. The emphasis on diversity hiring that began in the 1970s has bore this rotten fruit. Rarely should things ever get to the point where shots should be fired. But standards have dropped so much, that it has become much more common, with people of all races being shot more by cops.
Of course the solution won't please "wokesters".
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Well nice try at trying to psychoanalyze me. Shall I do you now? How about making your point without all the personal attacks? You aren't capable of being decent, making a point, without personal attacks? I did not know about tags in any WINDOW. Last I heard, dark tint is not allowed as people can't see inside. See who is driving. That has practical issues.
I saw the video. The driver was acting like a baby. Yeah, that is what we need in the military. WONDER HOW WELL HE TAKES HIS ORDERS THERE?
All the driver HAD to do, was comply with police. HE DIDN'T. I FOLLOW THE LAWS OF THE LAND. You all act like police should be clairvoyant. SEE IN THE DARK. BE PERFECT PEOPLE. Let us assume, the police were in the wrong.
WHY DIDN'T THE AZZHOLE DRIVER JUST COMPLY? They asked him a few things, to determine, about tags.
All the azzhole driver had to do was comply. SHOW THEM HIS TAG IN THE WINDOW. The driver was making the issue worse. THE DRIVER IS TOTALLY IN THE WRONG. He sure didn't 'act' innocent'. Ignorant. Resisting officers. I would guess, everyone WANTS to resist a policeman. Police get tired of that.
Wrong call if officer was fired. Now, it is the END TIMES. GOOD IS MADE OUT TO BE BAD, AND BAD MADE OUT TO BE GOOD. THAT IS WHERE WE ARE.....NOW. The driver was in the wrong. THE DRIVER ESCALATED THE SITUATION.
I am a law abiding citizen. You..aren't.
Law abiding citizens in Germany walked meekly into the gas chambers. Screw law-abiding when the law enforcers are acting like fascists.
The cops had the authority to stop and investigate. They didn't have the authority to draw weapons immediately. One of the cops should have walked up to the vehicle first, it's their friggin' JOB.
What law did the suspect violate? He didn't have to leave the vehicle and the cops were required to state probable cause for the stop before they started issuing those orders.
Here's how it goes.
Car is pulled over.
Cop gets his donut-larded ass out of his vehicle and walks to the suspect's stopped car.
He shouldn't have to request...(not ORDER) request the window be rolled down, that's how this game is played, but some people are anal on the other side, too.
The window is rolled down, conversation starts. The officer normally asks "do you know why I stopped you?" and the intelligent driver says "no, why?" (why confess?) Then the officer states why.
Then the officer can demand the paperwork. Without stating a legal probable cause, the pigs can't do ANYTHING.
This is called "following the law". It's for pigs, not just Americans.
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Which is my whole point. The emphasis on diversity hiring that began in the 1970s has bore this rotten fruit. Rarely should things ever get to the point where shots should be fired. But standards have dropped so much, that it has become much more common, with people of all races being shot more by cops.
Of course the solution won't please "wokesters".
Actually, cops were bullies then, too. People who aren't bullies do not become cops.
But good cops keep their bullying in check and save it for the criminals. These morons just assumed everyone in a black car with dark windows had to be a Hollywood movie gangster.
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The other officer was uncomfortable, NOT KNOWING, how much more crazy and resisting the driver would become.
The driver escalated the situation. The driver could have started shooting at police. Police don't know, WHY, a person is not complying. The DRIVER had the audacity to slap the policeman's hand! People are just afraid of more riots.
No one knew, WHO, the driver....was. He was an azzhole.
Why should the citizen comply when the cops are pointing guns at him right off the bat?
It was the cops' job to calm the situation down, and they made it worse, every step of the way.
Americans aren't pansies and resent this kind of treatment from the pigs.
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If it was a "Legal Stop", why was the Officer Fired?
Oh, the stop was legal. Perfectly sensible for a police officer to investigate what might be a stolen car by stopping and ASKING some questions.
The rest of the scene was not legal, not at all. Since the search was illegal nothing found could be admissible in court.
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Actually, cops were bullies then, too. People who aren't bullies do not become cops.
I don't buy that.
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IMO its not a black or white matter. Officer Gutierrez was a jerk & escalated unnecessarily but things would've been fine had the 2nd Lt not copped an attitude.
I'm told that only white people can be racist. That lets the hispanic cop off the hook.
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I don't buy that.
Wasn't selling it.
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Yeah I watched it. The cops' tension level was critical the very moment the guy's car rolled to a stop. As I said earlier, the driver was stuck in dicey situation when they pointed their guns at him, told him to show his hands AND exit the vehicle. In that situation with cops in an agitated state I am not gonna do ANYTHING with my hands but keep them out the window, making exiting the car kinda tough.
On the other hand once Gutierrez approached his window making conversation possible the Lt should have calmly complied. And Gutierrez should've tried to de-escalate.
Not a cop but like everyone else I have an opinion - there is blame to go around but the police set the tone early on.
He didn't have to exit the vehicle and they didn't have probable cause to drag him out or assault him.
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@Sled Dog
PLEASE do not refer LEO's as pigs!
ONLY when they act like law enforcement officers and not as authoritarian goons on a power trip.
I support the POLICE.
I do not support abuse under color of authority.
They made the choice, the words I employ have the necessary definition to express the ideas I desire.
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From the OP Link
“I made the decision to release him without any charges,†his report said. “The reason for this decision is simple; the military is the only place where double jeopardy applies. Meaning that whatever happened in civil court, the military could still take action against him. Being a military veteran, I did not want to see his career ruined over one erroneous decision.â€
So Guitterrez claims to be a veteran....but in the video he was clearly questioning the suspect's rank...though the uniform would have clearly displayed collar devices showing him to be a Lieutenant.
So he was baiting the suspect hoping to get a reaction.
Glad he got fired. Clear a disgrace to the police uniform and probably his military uniform, too.
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@mountaineer
Been a long time since I lived in Va,but the best I can remember,it is NOT illegal to carry a loaded gun in your car if it is not concealed.
I know some of you are getting the vapors over this,but you are just being hysterical.
I have been pulled over twice while carrying concealed. Once in NYS and once in VA. Both times I was smart enough to inform the office as quickly as i could that I was carrying. INYS the officer had me leave the vehicle and he asked where it was i told him. He removed it emptied it and set it on the roof of my truck. In VA he just asked for my license and permit. Thanked me for carrying and sent me on my way. He is the difference between me and the idiot Lt. I wasn't an bleep and i did as i was requested to do. I didn't give either officer and shit and everyone went home safe and sound with out any injury or use of pepper spray.
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If it was a "Legal Stop", why was the Officer Fired?
@Elderberry Because we are living in a "Woke" society and his commanding officer doesn't have any balls. Did you watch the video I provided the link to?
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That 2LT was wrong from start to finish on that stop and was actively resisting during the entire stop. I just wonder/hope taht the VA national Guard and his unit take appropriate action against him for his part in that cluster f*ck.
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@Elderberry Because we are living in a "Woke" society and his commanding officer doesn't have any balls. Did you watch the video I provided the link to?
^^^ This!
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The pigs exceeded their authority.
The driver of the car was an idiot.
Then again, there was no reason for the pigs to draw weapons as they did. Sorry, it's a shitty job, but the pigs have to have PROBABLE CAUSE to use force.
Then again, God only knows why the moron driving the car needed to told a thousand times to open the window, shut the car off and stick his hands out of the window. Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop. Clearly the driver was trying to create a Rodney King Moment.
First you call them pigs that exceeded their authority, and then you conclude by saying "Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop." Which one do you believe, because I am seeing a serious contradiction here?
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Too bad for them. All the pigs had was a new car and stereotyping.
THEY initiated the confrontation by drawing weapons. if they're afraid on their job, they need to find a new line of work.
They had no probable cause for anything but an interview.
Obviously you did not watch the video. THE WINDOWS WERE TINTED AND IT WAS AT NIGHT. THEY COULD NTO SEE THE DRIVER. So explain to me how they were stereotyping since the driver was half Hispanic and half African American, and the officer was also Hispanic? And stop calling them pigs. They are officers doing a job and you are sounding like one of the BLM D!CKS.
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@Sled Dog
PLEASE do not refer LEO's as pigs!
Thank you.
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The pigs exceeded their authority.
The driver of the car was an idiot.
Then again, there was no reason for the pigs to draw weapons as they did. Sorry, it's a shitty job, but the pigs have to have PROBABLE CAUSE to use force.
Then again, God only knows why the moron driving the car needed to told a thousand times to open the window, shut the car off and stick his hands out of the window. Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop. Clearly the driver was trying to create a Rodney King Moment.
@Sled Dog
I suspect,that like a lot of blacks,he has a chip on his shoulder. After all,ALL he has heard since the day he was born is that he is a "Victum ob de white debbils". You hear that often enough,you believe it. You believe it long enough,and no amount of actual evidence will remove it from your mind.
This has been a part of the leftist plan ever since they moved the blacks onto the "LBJ Plantation".
Yeah,some blacks manage to overcome the lifetime of conditioning they receive,but it's not easy.
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Too bad for them. All the pigs had was a new car and stereotyping.
THEY initiated the confrontation by drawing weapons. if they're afraid on their job, they need to find a new line of work.
They had no probable cause for anything but an interview.
@Sled Dog
And THERE it is.
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Agree that driving over a mile "to find a lighted area" was unnecessary provocation and stirred up the pigs.
@Sled Dog
I don't. It was a semi-rural area,and it was dark. It only makes sense to drive to a lighted area with witnesses around that is also off the way of traffic. It's not like he sped up and tried to get away.
ANYBODY that stops in the road or even on the shoulder of the road is a fool unless their vehicle has quit being drivable. It's just too dangerous,and there is NO rational reason for doing it.
The pigs are supposed to act rationally, not emotionally, like that fat one did. HE was so stupid he couldn't even read standard military insignia.
Actually,they are trained to react like robots. They learn this "make road stops in the road" nonsense from the police academies. Don't ask me to explain the "logic" behind it because I can't. 10+ years ago the cops appreciated you pulling off the road into a shopping center,or somewhere else there was no danger of them or you being ran over by a drunk or some over-medicated senior.
I have no idea what fool was behind the brain fart demanding you and the cop stop and block a 2 lane highway for crap like minor speeding tickets or equipment violations,but damned if it didn't seem to take over and become standard procedure all over the country.
*I* STRONGLY suspect this was at the root of the only speeding ticket I got in over 30 years. I refused to pull over to the shoulder of a busy 4 lane highway,and drove maybe a quarter mile at most to a shopping center parking lot,where I parked and turned my ignition off,rolled my window down,and sat there with both hands high on the steering wheel in plain sight unit Officer Cartman got to my truck.
He was pissed when he got there,and demanded to know why I didn't IMMEDIATELY stop,and I told him at first it was because I couldn't believe he was stopping me,and when I did realize that,I didn't want to stop and block the highway.
I had been driving in a 55 mph speed zone on a 4 lane highway around 3 PM on a sunny afternoon,and was just entering the 50 mph speed zone. My speedo read 62 MPH,and I had just taken my foot off the accelerator to slow down.
Evidentially he was pissed at me for not immediately coming to a screaming halt and trembling with fear at his auth-or-atay,so he gave me a ticket for 66 in a 45. I told him there was no way in hell I was going that fast,and then he really got pissed. I honestly thought he was going to try to put his hands on me,and that would have gotten very ugly very quickly.
To be honest,he was already mad when he got up to my truck window,so I suspect someone else had made him mad just a few minutes earlier,and he was still "carrying that mad" when he stopped me.
Affirmative action hiring.
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If people just follow simple civics...then situations like this deescalate on their own fairly quickly.
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@Elderberry Because we are living in a "Woke" society and his commanding officer doesn't have any balls. Did you watch the video I provided the link to?
I saw videos before your link. I did not see how the officer could have possibly been "In fear of his life" to warrant pulling a weapon on the driver.
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First you call them pigs that exceeded their authority, and then you conclude by saying "Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop." Which one do you believe, because I am seeing a serious contradiction here?
What part of "turn off the engine" and "stick your hands out the windows" is unlawful in a typical traffic stop?
I'm not denying the cops had the authority to stop and investigate.
Then they immediately went into Testosterone Mode and pulled their penises...er..guns out, without reason.
That is when the situation went pear shaped. There was no need to display weapons at that point.
And what the hell, do those er.."cops" have any brains at all? If the vehicle WAS being driven by gangstas...would they prefer to stop on a dark highway and play shoot-em-up, or would they go to a well-lit service station, with cameras and witnesses, to do the deed?
if the "cop" had any normal level of testosterone, he would have walked up to the vehicle and done the procedure properly.
He did not. He failed to control the situation and thus the onus is on him.
And, no, it's not "obstructing" the law to refuse to exit a vehicle until the "cops" present adequate probable cause.
"Get out of the car."
"No. Why should I?"
"I'm a Low T cop and want to boost my ego."
"Not good enough. That's not recognized probable cause."
"How about 'Get out or I shoot you'?"
"Then any search of my vehicle is unlawful under the Fourth Amendment."
The cops resorted to force and threats because their widdle egos were hurt and they knew they didn't have authority to go as far as they did.
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If people just follow simple civics...then situations like this deescalate on their own fairly quickly.
Not "people".
The cops.
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What part of "turn off the engine" and "stick your hands out the windows" is unlawful in a typical traffic stop?
I'm not denying the cops had the authority to stop and investigate.
Then they immediately went into Testosterone Mode and pulled their penises...er..guns out, without reason.
That is when the situation went pear shaped. There was no need to display weapons at that point.
And what the hell, do those er.."cops" have any brains at all? If the vehicle WAS being driven by gangstas...would they prefer to stop on a dark highway and play shoot-em-up, or would they go to a well-lit service station, with cameras and witnesses, to do the deed?
if the "cop" had any normal level of testosterone, he would have walked up to the vehicle and done the procedure properly.
He did not. He failed to control the situation and thus the onus is on him.
And, no, it's not "obstructing" the law to refuse to exit a vehicle until the "cops" present adequate probable cause.
"Get out of the car."
"No. Why should I?"
"I'm a Low T cop and want to boost my ego."
"Not good enough. That's not recognized probable cause."
"How about 'Get out or I shoot you'?"
"Then any search of my vehicle is unlawful under the Fourth Amendment."
The cops resorted to force and threats because their widdle egos were hurt and they knew they didn't have authority to go as far as they did.
You sound no different than the Liberal defund the police crowd with childish crap like this.
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Obviously you did not watch the video. THE WINDOWS WERE TINTED AND IT WAS AT NIGHT. THEY COULD NTO SEE THE DRIVER. So explain to me how they were stereotyping since the driver was half Hispanic and half African American, and the officer was also Hispanic? And stop calling them pigs. They are officers doing a job and you are sounding like one of the BLM D!CKS.
I drove a cargo van for over a decade.
My windows weren't tinted. They were steel sheets, no windows.
The cop was required to address the citizen respectfully and explain his reason for stopping the citizen, not scream at him in an estrogen haze.
The rear windows of those SUVs are tinted for thermal reasons, among others. It was a factory tint. The cop was a gutless little girl who caused a minor issue to become a major viral video.
He needs to learn to code.
Edit:
Let me answer the question - the "cop" was stereotyping in that he assumed the driver of a black late-model SUV with temporary tags...oops...he was too stupid to see those....was a gangster with a gun endangering his life.
And yeah, that's why I said "stereotyping" since I reserve the word "racist" to the Rodents and because I meant to use the word "stereotyping" because I know what words mean. I'm really special that way.
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I drove a cargo van for over a decade.
My windows weren't tinted. They were steel sheets, no windows.
The cop was required to address the citizen respectfully and explain his reason for stopping the citizen, not scream at him in an estrogen haze.
The rear windows of those SUVs are tinted for thermal reasons, among others. It was a factory tint. The cop was a gutless little girl who caused a minor issue to become a major viral video.
He needs to learn to code.
*****rollingeyes*****
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You sound no different than the Liberal defund the police crowd with childish crap like this.
I sound like a conservative libertarian who understands the purpose of the police in civil society and the limits the Constitution places one THEIR actions, not ours.
You need to form and express arguments supporting your position.
Before that, you should probably express a coherent position so we can discuss the issue.
There are limits on police behavior. When those limits are exceeded, the officers in violation deserve neither respect nor sympathy.
Those limits were exceeded by these clowns in the video.
Here's a HINT for you: NOBODY has a "right" to be able to see inside someone's vehicle, not even the po-leese. The front windshield and front door windows can't be tinted for reasons of driver field-of-view. Vehicles aren't even required to have windows aft of the driver. Ergo, it can't be reasonable to ban tinting on windows. But whatever, the vehicle was brand-new and had factory standard tinting.
Too bad for the cops, but they shouldn't be pulling guns on citizens without explicit probable cause. Tiny balls aren't justification.
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*****rollingeyes*****
So you believe I should have cut holes in the sides of my van so the po-leese could peer in when they wanted to?
Explain the difference between a panel-truck and a car with tinted windows from a safety perspective?
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Again...the driver refused to comply with simple commands from the officer. You would think a commissioned officer in the military...especially a lowly 2LT would understand complying with commands you're being given.
Had he simply done what the officer said the first time he asked...we wouldn't know who this weekend warrior was...nor would we care.
And it's really kinda sad to see people on here who consider themselves Conservative continue disparage the officers and the rule of law. You're letting your own personal bad experience with law enforcement cloud your common sense and judgement.
Are there bad cops? Of course...but it's not these two. And given the ay police are under attack from every corner these days you can' blame them for being tense in this situation...especially given how the driver refused to stop and then refused to comply with the officers. That right there ramps up the tension.
And IMHO you can't get mad at the cops for enforcing the laws passed by the city/county/state. They merely enforce them. Don't like the laws...vote people in that will change the laws...or get elected to a city council yourself and be the change.
And I can tell you for a fact...that had that idiot 2LT behaved in the same manner on ANY military installation...the Military Police officers that pulled him over wouldn't have acted any differently.
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So you believe I should have cut holes in the sides of my van so the po-leese could peer in when they wanted to?
Explain the difference between a panel-truck and a car with tinted windows from a safety perspective?
Was your car tag hiding behind one of the metal panels? No? Didn't think so.
It had nothing to do with safety.
The reason they wanted to pull the truck over int he first place is because they couldn't see a car tag displayed anywhere on the vehicle. It was not visible behind the tinted glass of the tailgate.
What could have been a 2 minute stop with a warning or just a verbal reminder to "put your tag where it can be seen so this doesn't happen again" had turned into what it is now.
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I sound like a conservative libertarian who understands the purpose of the police in civil society and the limits the Constitution places one THEIR actions, not ours.
You need to form and express arguments supporting your position.
Before that, you should probably express a coherent position so we can discuss the issue.
There are limits on police behavior. When those limits are exceeded, the officers in violation deserve neither respect nor sympathy.
Those limits were exceeded by these clowns in the video.
Here's a HINT for you: NOBODY has a "right" to be able to see inside someone's vehicle, not even the po-leese. The front windshield and front door windows can't be tinted for reasons of driver field-of-view. Vehicles aren't even required to have windows aft of the driver. Ergo, it can't be reasonable to ban tinting on windows. But whatever, the vehicle was brand-new and had factory standard tinting.
Too bad for the cops, but they shouldn't be pulling guns on citizens without explicit probable cause. Tiny balls aren't justification.
No you don't. The way you're disparaging the cops the derogatory terms you've used....you and Hillary Clinton are like minded people. She feels about the cops the same way that you do.
So congratulations.
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What part of "turn off the engine" and "stick your hands out the windows" is unlawful in a typical traffic stop?
I'm not denying the cops had the authority to stop and investigate.
Then they immediately went into Testosterone Mode and pulled their penises...er..guns out, without reason.
That is when the situation went pear shaped. There was no need to display weapons at that point.
And what the hell, do those er.."cops" have any brains at all? If the vehicle WAS being driven by gangstas...would they prefer to stop on a dark highway and play shoot-em-up, or would they go to a well-lit service station, with cameras and witnesses, to do the deed?
if the "cop" had any normal level of testosterone, he would have walked up to the vehicle and done the procedure properly.
He did not. He failed to control the situation and thus the onus is on him.
And, no, it's not "obstructing" the law to refuse to exit a vehicle until the "cops" present adequate probable cause.
"Get out of the car."
"No. Why should I?"
"I'm a Low T cop and want to boost my ego."
"Not good enough. That's not recognized probable cause."
"How about 'Get out or I shoot you'?"
"Then any search of my vehicle is unlawful under the Fourth Amendment."
The cops resorted to force and threats because their widdle egos were hurt and they knew they didn't have authority to go as far as they did.
@Sled Dog
BINGO!
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You sound no different than the Liberal defund the police crowd with childish crap like this.
@Sled Dog @txradioguy
So.....,you would be fine with being treated like that if it were you,and you KNEW you had committed no crimes or done anything else to deserve this kind of abuse by the police?
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@Sled Dog
BINGO!
Bullshit!
Maybe if the idiot 2LT (repetitive I know) hadn't continually slapped their hands away after he refused to comply with their lawful orders to exit the vehicle...none of this would have happened.
But hey why let facts get in the way of getting our hate hard on for cops right?
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Again...the driver refused to comply with simple commands from the officer. You would think a commissioned officer in the military...especially a lowly 2LT would understand complying with commands you're being given.
I recognize that it took the fool quite a while to comply.
And even second loouies are smart enough to know that some civilian cop is not in his chain of command.
This excuses the instant display of lethal force in what way?
Had he simply done what the officer said the first time he asked...we wouldn't know who this weekend warrior was...nor would we care.
Blaming the victim is a tired old American pastime, isn't it?
And it's really kinda sad to see people on here who consider themselves Conservative continue disparage the officers and the rule of law. You're letting your own personal bad experience with law enforcement cloud your common sense and judgement.
And it's REALLY said to see conservatives defend the abuse of citizens under the color of authority.
The citizen's rights were violated. Bigly.
Try to understand this.
Are there bad cops? Of course...but it's not these two. And given the ay police are under attack from every corner these days you can' blame them for being tense in this situation...especially given how the driver refused to stop and then refused to comply with the officers. That right there ramps up the tension.
Yes, those two.
The vehicle stopped in a well lighted area and the next proper step was for the officer to get his butt out of the car and approach the vehicle to both inform the driver of the reason for the stop and to promote the investigation. He did neither because he is a fool. The other cop was worse and did everything possible to make the situation worse, probably deliberately given his refusal to recognize the military rank of the suspect and the cop's alleged veteran status.
And IMHO you can't get mad at the cops for enforcing the laws passed by the city/county/state. They merely enforce them. Don't like the laws...vote people in that will change the laws...or get elected to a city council yourself and be the change.
Of course I can. This is supposed to be a free country and I can certainly be outraged over the abuses those two jerks performed, presuming to hide behind the authority I granted them as a citizen of the United States.
There was nothing wrong with the laws.
The fat cop got himself fired, didn't he? That was a good outcome. He clearly had attitude issues that needed rectifying before he killed someone.
And I can tell you for a fact...that had that idiot 2LT behaved in the same manner on ANY military installation...the Military Police officers that pulled him over wouldn't have acted any differently.
Depends on how well trained the MPs were. I know the SPs I met were just as retarded as any other average cop. I had a REAL job in the Navy. I wasn't a cop with a different uniform.
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@Sled Dog @txradioguy
So.....,you would be fine with being treated like that if it were you,and you KNEW you had committed no crimes or done anything else to deserve this kind of abuse by the police?
I won't get treated like that because I won't act like Nazario did. If I've committed no crime they I have no reason to not comply with their orders.
And I already know cops are going to be tense when they initially stop me because when they run my plates they'll see on their computer I have a valid concealed carry license.
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@Sled Dog
BINGO!
Once things start to go squirrelly and they realize they're getting into legal trouble, cops often escalate to provoke a response from the citizen so they can then sweep their instigating behavior under the rug by charging the victim with assault and etc.
That's routine and that was DEFINITELY what was going on here.
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Bullshit!
Maybe if the idiot 2LT (repetitive I know) hadn't continually slapped their hands away after he refused to comply with their lawful orders to exit the vehicle...none of this would have happened.
But hey why let facts get in the way of getting our hate hard on for cops right?
@txradioguy
Or MAYBE,the idiot cop shouldn't have been trying to grab an innocent citizen that was not guilty of ANY actual crime?
At WORSE,he was guilty of an unintended traffic violation because his temporary license wasn't visable.
ALL the escalation here was due to the actions of the cops. Mainly the fat,bald one. Of course,the other cop is going to do down with him because he didn't stop him. He was kinda in a lose-lose situation. If he backed his partner he was guilty of abetting abuse and if he didn't,chances are he would end up losing his job.
Do YOU think this sort of thing justifies physical force and violence by the police? Would it be ok with you if it were YOUR son or daughter they had stopped,and not this Lt?
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I still don't get the 'guns out' posture of the cops - a license plate violation followed by a mile drive & pullover to a well lit area.
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I won't get treated like that because I won't act like Nazario did. If I've committed no crime they I have no reason to not comply with their orders.
And I already know cops are going to be tense when they initially stop me because when they run my plates they'll see on their computer I have a valid concealed carry license.
Won't be too long in this country before your crime will be Driving While White (assuming you are...I've no idea, of course), and then what?
The place to resist illegal police action is when illegal police action happens, ESPECIALLY when you know you've committed no crime.
Stop the vehicle? Fine.
Stick the hands out the window? Fine.
Get out of the car? No effin' way, not until they present probable cause for the stop and, more, probable cause for requiring me to exit the vehicle. Getting the victim out of the car is the first step towards an illegal search.
If you DON'T stand for your rights every time you interact with the law stooges, don't expect to keep them. Defend that man's rights, because you're defending your own.
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I still don't get the 'guns out' posture of the cops - a license plate violation pullover followed by a mile drive to a well lit area.
Too much caffiene?
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@txradioguy
Or MAYBE,the idiot cop shouldn't have been trying to grab an innocent citizen that was not guilty of ANY actual crime?
At WORSE,he was guilty of an unintended traffic violation because his temporary license wasn't visable.
ALL the escalation here was due to the actions of the cops. Mainly the fat,bald one. Of course,the other cop is going to do down with him because he didn't stop him. He was kinda in a lose-lose situation. If he backed his partner he was guilty of abetting abuse and if he didn't,chances are he would end up losing his job.
Do YOU think this sort of thing justifies physical force and violence by the police? Would it be ok with you if it were YOUR son or daughter they had stopped,and not this Lt?
If he didn't back the other cop, he would have never been able to trust any cop in a situation where that trust was needed. I understand that. But the moron shouldn't have escalated that stop to the level of weapons out in the first place.
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Won't be too long in this country before your crime will be Driving While White (assuming you are...I've no idea, of course), and then what?
The place to resist illegal police action is when illegal police action happens, ESPECIALLY when you know you've committed no crime.
Stop the vehicle? Fine.
Stick the hands out the window? Fine.
Get out of the car? No effin' way, not until they present probable cause for the stop and, more, probable cause for requiring me to exit the vehicle. Getting the victim out of the car is the first step towards an illegal search.
If you DON'T stand for your rights every time you interact with the law stooges, don't expect to keep them. Defend that man's rights, because you're defending your own.
@Sled Dog
In bold because it bears repeating over and over until EVERYBODY "gets it".
We are either all free citizens,or none of us are free citizens.
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I recognize that it took the fool quite a while to comply.
So automatically he escalated the situation.
And even second loouies are smart enough to know that some civilian cop is not in his chain of command.
Never said they were...but we as soldiers also know that we have to obey lawful orders from civilian police officers if we are stopped for any violation. We show up on civilian police blotters just like anyone else when we run afoul of the law. And any resistance to civilian law enforcement can result in military repercussions on our career.
This excuses the instant display of lethal force in what way?
Driver fails to comply...won't stop...refuses commands...what are they supposed to do...ask pretty please? Wait til the driver runs them over to draw their weapoin?
Blaming the victim is a tired old American pastime, isn't it?
If the "victim" is complicit in what ends up happening to them then they really aren't that much of a victim now are they?
And it's REALLY said to see conservatives defend the abuse of citizens under the color of authority
Rule of law is a cornerstone of conservatism. Sorry you don't comprehend that.
The citizen's rights were violated. Bigly.
So was the law of that area. By the citizen. Bigly.
Try to understand this.
Take your own advice.
Yes, those two.
No not those two.
The vehicle stopped in a well lighted area and the next proper step was for the officer to get his butt out of the car and approach the vehicle to both inform the driver of the reason for the stop and to promote the investigation. He did neither because he is a fool. The other cop was worse and did everything possible to make the situation worse, probably deliberately given his refusal to recognize the military rank of the suspect and the cop's alleged veteran status.
The driver continued for a mile after the lights were turned on. There was no tag visible. The officer had no idea what was going on. My first thought would be stolen vehicle. Watch enough shows like LivePD and you understand why.
The idiot 2LT (again repetitive I know) Kept trying to use his rank *chuckle* and his status as a member of the military to not comply. That ls complete and utter bullshit on the 2LT's part. He doesn't get special privilege to ignore local law enforcement simply because he's wearing a uniform. And you can clearly hear the officer tell him "I'm a veteran too".
Of course I can. This is supposed to be a free country and I can certainly be outraged over the abuses those two jerks performed, presuming to hide behind the authority I granted them as a citizen of the United States.
Again you're letting your personal bias from whatever bad run ins you've had with the cops completely kill any kind of common sense you should be applying to this situation. ANd it's really sad.
There was nothing wrong with the laws.
Then don't trash the cops for enforcing them.
The fat cop got himself fired, didn't he? That was a good outcome. He clearly had attitude issues that needed rectifying before he killed someone.
So if the one cop got himself fired for doing his job? What should happen to the 2LT for his actions during that stop that escalated it to the point it got to?
Depends on how well trained the MPs were. I know the SPs I met were just as retarded as any other average cop. I had a REAL job in the Navy. I wasn't a cop with a different uniform.
And there we have it. Your myopic view of law enforcement boiled down to it's purest form. It's not just this traffic stop you despise...you just hate law enforcement period.
You're one of those that would just rather give a middle finger to any police officer you see and chuckle;e to yourself about how cool you are for doing it.
Idiot.
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@txradioguy
Or MAYBE,the idiot cop shouldn't have been trying to grab an innocent citizen that was not guilty of ANY actual crime?
At WORSE,he was guilty of an unintended traffic violation because his temporary license wasn't visable.
ALL the escalation here was due to the actions of the cops. Mainly the fat,bald one. Of course,the other cop is going to do down with him because he didn't stop him. He was kinda in a lose-lose situation. If he backed his partner he was guilty of abetting abuse and if he didn't,chances are he would end up losing his job.
Do YOU think this sort of thing justifies physical force and violence by the police? Would it be ok with you if it were YOUR son or daughter they had stopped,and not this Lt?
Once the driver refused to comply with the officers commands...he was guilty of obstruction. From that point on he determined how that entire stoop went.
The choice that 2LT made determined how that stop was going to go.
Or do you not believe in personal responsibility for your own actions anymore?
If my kids or even myself had acted like that 2LT had...I'd have no room to complain about what happened next. Because the conscious decisions I would have made to ignore the officers commands would have led to the end result.
It's just that simple.
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I still don't get the 'guns out' posture of the cops - a license plate violation followed by a mile drive & pullover to a well lit area.
Couldn't see the tag...refused to stop when first lit up.
Can't blame them one bit for having guns drawn at first till they knew what they were dealing with. Especially with what's been happening lately. Two cops run over in DC and one shot in the head on a routine traffic stop in rural NM.
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And before anyone tries to get the bright idea to falsely label me as some police ass kisser (because I know it's coming)...I'm on record in the Minnesota shooting thread as saying the cop needs to be fired for being too stupid to tell the difference between her Glock and her bright yellow taser.
But I bet the cops bashers in this thread won't go over to that one and try to apply their same BS cop bashing on that case that they do here.
Imagine applying your defense of the 2LT in this thread to Duante Wright.
Then you being to see how ridiculous your cop bashing is in this instance.
I'll stand back now and watch the dissembling begin.
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I saw videos before your link. I did not see how the officer could have possibly been "In fear of his life" to warrant pulling a weapon on the driver.
@Elderberry Did you see the ENTIRE video, not the edited CNN MSNBdouchbag video?
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What part of "turn off the engine" and "stick your hands out the windows" is unlawful in a typical traffic stop?
I'm not denying the cops had the authority to stop and investigate.
Then they immediately went into Testosterone Mode and pulled their penises...er..guns out, without reason.
That is when the situation went pear shaped. There was no need to display weapons at that point.
And what the hell, do those er.."cops" have any brains at all? If the vehicle WAS being driven by gangstas...would they prefer to stop on a dark highway and play shoot-em-up, or would they go to a well-lit service station, with cameras and witnesses, to do the deed?
if the "cop" had any normal level of testosterone, he would have walked up to the vehicle and done the procedure properly.
He did not. He failed to control the situation and thus the onus is on him.
And, no, it's not "obstructing" the law to refuse to exit a vehicle until the "cops" present adequate probable cause.
"Get out of the car."
"No. Why should I?"
"I'm a Low T cop and want to boost my ego."
"Not good enough. That's not recognized probable cause."
"How about 'Get out or I shoot you'?"
"Then any search of my vehicle is unlawful under the Fourth Amendment."
The cops resorted to force and threats because their widdle egos were hurt and they knew they didn't have authority to go as far as they did.
How about you try and apply this crap you're spewing on this thread.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,433996.new.html#new
I mean they are practically the same set of circumstances right?
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What part of "turn off the engine" and "stick your hands out the windows" is unlawful in a typical traffic stop?
I'm not denying the cops had the authority to stop and investigate.
Then they immediately went into Testosterone Mode and pulled their penises...er..guns out, without reason.
That is when the situation went pear shaped. There was no need to display weapons at that point.
And what the hell, do those er.."cops" have any brains at all? If the vehicle WAS being driven by gangstas...would they prefer to stop on a dark highway and play shoot-em-up, or would they go to a well-lit service station, with cameras and witnesses, to do the deed?
if the "cop" had any normal level of testosterone, he would have walked up to the vehicle and done the procedure properly.
He did not. He failed to control the situation and thus the onus is on him.
And, no, it's not "obstructing" the law to refuse to exit a vehicle until the "cops" present adequate probable cause.
"Get out of the car."
"No. Why should I?"
"I'm a Low T cop and want to boost my ego."
"Not good enough. That's not recognized probable cause."
"How about 'Get out or I shoot you'?"
"Then any search of my vehicle is unlawful under the Fourth Amendment."
The cops resorted to force and threats because their widdle egos were hurt and they knew they didn't have authority to go as far as they did.
Still contradicting yourself "Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop." in your previous post. The Lt was being DETAINED, that means by LAW he is required to follow the directions of the police officers. He did not come close to doing that for over SEVEN MINUTES. Tinted windows (So they can't see into the vehicle,) They can't see how many people are in the vehicle or if they are armed. No visible license plate, so they don't know if the vehicle is stolen. He continued to leave the car running after being told 5-6 times to turn it off. Instead he used that time to set up his cell phone to record the incident. He did not have BOTH hands out the window until being told over 10 times (He only had his left arm out. and He had a FIREARM within reach of his right hand. If I am in that situation your DAMN right I am approaching with my sidearm out.
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Still contradicting yourself "Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop." in your previous post. The Lt was being DETAINED, that means by LAW he is required to follow the directions of the police officers. He did not come close to doing that for over SEVEN MINUTES. Tinted windows (So they can't see into the vehicle,) They can't see how many people are in the vehicle or if they are armed. No visible license plate, so they don't know if the vehicle is stolen. He continued to leave the car running after being told 5-6 times to turn it off. Instead he used that time to set up his cell phone to record the incident. He did not have BOTH hands out the window until being told over 10 times (He only had his left arm out. and He had a FIREARM within reach of his right hand. If I am in that situation your DAMN right I am approaching with my sidearm out.
@verga thank you for reminding me of that salient point. Have they determined whether he legally owned that firearm or not?
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I drove a cargo van for over a decade.
My windows weren't tinted. They were steel sheets, no windows.
The cop was required to address the citizen respectfully and explain his reason for stopping the citizen, not scream at him in an estrogen haze.
The rear windows of those SUVs are tinted for thermal reasons, among others. It was a factory tint. The cop was a gutless little girl who caused a minor issue to become a major viral video.
He needs to learn to code.
Edit:
Let me answer the question - the "cop" was stereotyping in that he assumed the driver of a black late-model SUV with temporary tags...oops...he was too stupid to see those....was a gangster with a gun endangering his life.
And yeah, that's why I said "stereotyping" since I reserve the word "racist" to the Rodents and because I meant to use the word "stereotyping" because I know what words mean. I'm really special that way.
The tags were not visible.
Even in the "well lit" parking lot. You watch the video and tell me 1) Exactly where it is located. 2) The number and letters are on it. Not holding my breath.
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Still contradicting yourself "Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop." in your previous post. The Lt was being DETAINED, that means by LAW he is required to follow the directions of the police officers. He did not come close to doing that for over SEVEN MINUTES. Tinted windows (So they can't see into the vehicle,) They can't see how many people are in the vehicle or if they are armed. No visible license plate, so they don't know if the vehicle is stolen. He continued to leave the car running after being told 5-6 times to turn it off. Instead he used that time to set up his cell phone to record the incident. He did not have BOTH hands out the window until being told over 10 times (He only had his left arm out. and He had a FIREARM within reach of his right hand. If I am in that situation your DAMN right I am approaching with my sidearm out.
Thank you again. As if people can't hear, read, see! It isn't the police who have egos. They are doing their job.
:hands: :hands: :hands:
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Couldn't see the tag...refused to stop when first lit up.
Can't blame them one bit for having guns drawn at first till they knew what they were dealing with. Especially with what's been happening lately. Two cops run over in DC and one shot in the head on a routine traffic stop in rural NM.
You have the right to continue to a safe well lit area even after being lit up. And I'm not going to reach down to unhook my seatbelt with two cops shouting and pointing their guns at me. The cops escalated the situation unnecessarily.
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You have the right to continue to a safe well lit area even after being lit up. And I'm not going to reach down to unhook my seatbelt with two cops shouting and pointing their guns at me. The cops escalated the situation unnecessarily.
Where is that a "right" exactly? They were telling him to take his seat belt off and exit the vehicle. He refused.
No they didn't. They escalated the scenario because of the refusal of the driver to comply with lawful orders.
Again...decisions made by the 2LT led to this. OR have we totally abandoned the concept of taking responsibility for our own actions?
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@Elderberry Did you see the ENTIRE video, not the edited CNN MSNBdouchbag video?
I watched enough and listened to the police audios. I didn't listen to any of the crappy commentaries though. What do you care? Do you need to be told what to think?
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So automatically he escalated the situation.
No.
The cop did when he pulled the gun with no evidence of an active threat.
A citizen reacting SLOWLY is not a threat, just a moron.
They make anyone an officer, these days....
Never said they were...but we as soldiers also know that we have to obey lawful orders from civilian police officers if we are stopped for any violation. We show up on civilian police blotters just like anyone else when we run afoul of the law. And any resistance to civilian law enforcement can result in military repercussions on our career.
I was no soldier.
And the orders were not lawful, not when the command was, under gun-point, to exit the vehicle with no statement of probable cause for the stop.
The "cops" escalated the situation, don't forget.
Driver fails to comply...won't stop...refuses commands...what are they supposed to do...ask pretty please? Wait til the driver runs them over to draw their weapoin?
They were supposed to get their asses out of the cop car, walk up to the citizen and SPEAK to him.
Not scream at him with weapons out. I'd have taken my sweet time to answer those unlawful orders, too.
And, btw, it's REALLY hard to run over someone approaching the SIDE of a car...the wheels don't roll that way. And if the suspect had fled the scene after coming to a stop, THEN the cops could have had a fun high-speed chase and OBVIOUS CAUSE to draw weapons. Since that's not what happened, don't try to bolster your arguments with hypotheticals.
If the "victim" is complicit in what ends up happening to them then they really aren't that much of a victim now are they?
The cops were in violation of standard procedure.
What LAW did the victim violate?
Rule of law is a cornerstone of conservatism. Sorry you don't comprehend that.
The CONSTITUTION is the basis of liberty. When "laws" violate the Constitution, they're not laws and don't need to be obeyed.
Which laws did the victim violate?
The cops violated the Fourth Amendment, engaged in assault under color of authority and otherwise abused their power.
The old description for that is "police brutality". Conservatives used to object to that. Actually, conservatives still object to it.
So was the law of that area. By the citizen. Bigly.
What law did he violate, in his brandy-new factory tinted SUV?
The driver continued for a mile after the lights were turned on. There was no tag visible. The officer had no idea what was going on. My first thought would be stolen vehicle. Watch enough shows like LivePD and you understand why.
There was a tag visible. It was in the rear window. The cop had a mile of looking at that end of the car, why didn't he see it? Needed an eye test?
The idiot 2LT (again repetitive I know) Kept trying to use his rank *chuckle* and his status as a member of the military to not comply. That ls complete and utter bullshit on the 2LT's part. He doesn't get special privilege to ignore local law enforcement simply because he's wearing a uniform. And you can clearly hear the officer tell him "I'm a veteran too".
I clearly heard the "cop" asking the victim what his rank was, indicating he was either ignorant of military insignia or deliberately trying to provoke the victim. Since he later claimed to be a veteran, he cannot claim to be ignorant. Hence he was deliberately provocative and hence responsible for escalating the situation, the opposite of what he was supposed to be doing. He deserved to lose his job.
Hopefully no rent-a-cop agencies will take him, either.
Again you're letting your personal bias from whatever bad run ins you've had with the cops completely kill any kind of common sense you should be applying to this situation. ANd it's really sad.
You want to assume this is personal to me in some way instead of treating what I said for what it is, an objective analysis.
Were the suspect's rights violated?
Yes.
That's what we need to know.
So if the one cop got himself fired for doing his job? What should happen to the 2LT for his actions during that stop that escalated it to the point it got to?
Nothing. He was the VICTIM.
Stop blaming him.
And there we have it. Your myopic view of law enforcement boiled down to it's purest form. It's not just this traffic stop you despise...you just hate law enforcement period.
Your line of argument isn't succeeding. You should try to inject more facts into your discussions.
You're one of those that would just rather give a middle finger to any police officer you see and chuckle;e to yourself about how cool you are for doing it.
See what I mean?
You're setting up some straw-critters, hoping that they'll bait your hooks.
They don't.
Only sheep like the taste of straw.
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No.
The cop did when he pulled the gun with no evidence of an active threat.
A citizen reacting SLOWLY is not a threat, just a moron.
They make anyone an officer, these days....
I was no soldier.
And the orders were not lawful, not when the command was, under gun-point, to exit the vehicle with no statement of probable cause for the stop.
The "cops" escalated the situation, don't forget.
They were supposed to get their asses out of the cop car, walk up to the citizen and SPEAK to him.
Not scream at him with weapons out. I'd have taken my sweet time to answer those unlawful orders, too.
And, btw, it's REALLY hard to run over someone approaching the SIDE of a car...the wheels don't roll that way. And if the suspect had fled the scene after coming to a stop, THEN the cops could have had a fun high-speed chase and OBVIOUS CAUSE to draw weapons. Since that's not what happened, don't try to bolster your arguments with hypotheticals.
The cops were in violation of standard procedure.
What LAW did the victim violate?
The CONSTITUTION is the basis of liberty. When "laws" violate the Constitution, they're not laws and don't need to be obeyed.
Which laws did the victim violate?
The cops violated the Fourth Amendment, engaged in assault under color of authority and otherwise abused their power.
The old description for that is "police brutality". Conservatives used to object to that. Actually, conservatives still object to it.
What law did he violate, in his brandy-new factory tinted SUV?
There was a tag visible. It was in the rear window. The cop had a mile of looking at that end of the car, why didn't he see it? Needed an eye test?
I clearly heard the "cop" asking the victim what his rank was, indicating he was either ignorant of military insignia or deliberately trying to provoke the victim. Since he later claimed to be a veteran, he cannot claim to be ignorant. Hence he was deliberately provocative and hence responsible for escalating the situation, the opposite of what he was supposed to be doing. He deserved to lose his job.
Hopefully no rent-a-cop agencies will take him, either.
You want to assume this is personal to me in some way instead of treating what I said for what it is, an objective analysis.
Were the suspect's rights violated?
Yes.
That's what we need to know.
Nothing. He was the VICTIM.
Stop blaming him.
Your line of argument isn't succeeding. You should try to inject more facts into your discussions.
See what I mean?
You're setting up some straw-critters, hoping that they'll bait your hooks.
They don't.
Only sheep like the taste of straw.
This is nothing but one giant excuse on your part.
The Cliff Notes version of this is: You hate the cops and nothing in this entire scenario is the drivers fault no matter how wrong he was. Personal responsibility for his actions be dammed.
I take it you feel the same way about Duante Wright?
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Once the driver refused to comply with the officers commands...he was guilty of obstruction. From that point on he determined how that entire stoop went.
The choice that 2LT made determined how that stop was going to go.
Or do you not believe in personal responsibility for your own actions anymore?
If my kids or even myself had acted like that 2LT had...I'd have no room to complain about what happened next. Because the conscious decisions I would have made to ignore the officers commands would have led to the end result.
It's just that simple.
What is simple is that the victim was not informed of the probable cause for the stop. Since it was a simple traffic stop, the cops had no business trying to haul the victim out of the vehicle.
The victim WAS cooperating. His arms were stuck out the window.
The next step was for the "cops" to approach the victim and REQUEST driver's license, registration and insurance documents.
Was that done?
No.
What was done was an assault. Refusing to comply with an unlawful order, to exit the vehicle, is not a crime. The cops failed to follow procedure. It's that simple.
That the victim took "too long" to roll the window down and obey the scary man hiding behind his po-leese uniform and his gun? Too bad for the "cop", he clearly lacked experience and maturity. And testicles that worked. He had no business being on the streets, just like his side-kick, Mr. Pepper Spray.
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This is nothing but one giant excuse on your part.
The Cliff Notes version of this is: You hate the cops and nothing in this entire scenario is the drivers fault no matter how wrong he was. Personal responsibility for his actions be dammed.
The cliff notes version is that the Fourth Amendment sets limits on what the police can do.
These clowns exceeded that.
When they violated his Fourth Amendment protections, they violated YOUR Fourth Amendment protections.
You should try to care more about these cases and recognize them for the threats they are. Don't automatically side with the cops on these issues, make the effort to understand what happened.
What happened here is that the cops got excited and over-reacted.
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What is simple is that the victim was not informed of the probable cause for the stop. Since it was a simple traffic stop, the cops had no business trying to haul the victim out of the vehicle.
The victim WAS cooperating. His arms were stuck out the window.
The next step was for the "cops" to approach the victim and REQUEST driver's license, registration and insurance documents.
Was that done?
No.
What was done was an assault. Refusing to comply with an unlawful order, to exit the vehicle, is not a crime. The cops failed to follow procedure. It's that simple.
That the victim took "too long" to roll the window down and obey the scary man hiding behind his po-leese uniform and his gun? Too bad for the "cop", he clearly lacked experience and maturity. And testicles that worked. He had no business being on the streets, just like his side-kick, Mr. Pepper Spray.
You and Benjamin Crump have a lot in common when it comes to the hatred of the police.
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The "special ignorant driver," slapped away the policeman's hand! Oh my gosh! Yes, he thinks he is SPECIAL. He says it! SOCIOPATH...
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Commentary, as it should be, is essentially free on TBR;
therefore self-label yourself a ranting moron, if you choose.
However slandering an Army Lieutenant in uniform, a Sociopath,
is worse than disgraceful; it's beyond stupid.
But hey, stupid is home for some!!!
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The cliff notes version is that the Fourth Amendment sets limits on what the police can do.
These clowns exceeded that.
When they violated his Fourth Amendment protections, they violated YOUR Fourth Amendment protections.
You should try to care more about these cases and recognize them for the threats they are. Don't automatically side with the cops on these issues, make the effort to understand what happened.
What happened here is that the cops got excited and over-reacted.
No they didn't.
In your zealotry to bash cops at all costs you're completely excusing the conscious decisions made by the drive to refuse to comply.
His actions...or inaction in this case led directly to what happened.
Like I said earlier and you...big surprise...ignored...is that basic civics says that if he'd complied when originally given the verbal commands by the police this would have never happened.
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Speaking o the 4th Amendment, according to the holding in Delaware v Prowse those officers were well within their right to stop the vehicle and have the driver step out.
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Still contradicting yourself "Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop." in your previous post. The Lt was being DETAINED, that means by LAW he is required to follow the directions of the police officers. He did not come close to doing that for over SEVEN MINUTES. Tinted windows (So they can't see into the vehicle,) They can't see how many people are in the vehicle or if they are armed. No visible license plate, so they don't know if the vehicle is stolen. He continued to leave the car running after being told 5-6 times to turn it off. Instead he used that time to set up his cell phone to record the incident. He did not have BOTH hands out the window until being told over 10 times (He only had his left arm out. and He had a FIREARM within reach of his right hand. If I am in that situation your DAMN right I am approaching with my sidearm out.
The cop should have approached the vehicle and investigated.
Guess what they're paid to do?
Most of those seven minutes were spent with a raging "cop" outside his patrol car with a gun pointed at the victim. Why the hell should the victim not take his sweet time getting the window open, so he could record the event?
If the cop had simply gotten out of his vehicle, like HE'S SUPPOSED TO DO, and TALKED to the driver, face to face, NONE of this would have happened.
It's really that simple.
I got stopped by a jack-ass cop in an unmarked car because HE tried to cut me off by running a stop sign. He then play tail-gate games and then two miles later, after I went through a yellow light...he had to go through the red, he flashed his lights and I realized he wasn't just some dickless citizen with an attitude, he was a dickless cop being a dick with an attitude, who then tried to browbeat me over some such nonsense as how he had the right of way for being a cop yada yada yada. Until I pointed out that he wasn't responding to an emergency call, he didn't have his lights flashing, and he ran the red light, not me. Then he got fed up and left.
Another time some dipshit was going 20 in a 35 zone. So I passed him. Two blocks later, he came up next to me, clearly he was turning to wherever his home was, and yelled "hey, punk, see this?" and flashed his penis...er his badge at me. I gave him the finger and asked if he saw that.
I've lots of fine experiences with the police, even had one thank ME for being polite when I got caught in a BS speed trap. When they're doing their job CORRECTLY, they're fine. Some of them are jerks. The two I described are jerks, the two animals in the OP deserved to lose their jobs.
You should try to be objective some time. After all, conservatives are better than Rodents, so you shouldn't argue like the Rodents do.
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Speaking o the 4th Amendment, according to the holding in Delaware v Prowse those officers were well within their right to stop the vehicle and have the driver step out.
Oh.
Did they explain their probable cause to the victim?
No.
So, according to the United States Constitution, they did not comply with the Fourth Amendment.
"I gots me a badge, a uniform AND a GUN, so get out of the car, PUNK!" is not adequate.
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You and Benjamin Crump have a lot in common when it comes to the hatred of the police.
Shouldn't mind readers be extremely wealthy?
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Shouldn't mind readers be extremely wealthy?
No mind reading needed here. You hate cops...Crump is a known cop hating lawyer. You two would get along well.
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Kansas v Glover
Carroll v United States
Husty v United States
Colorado v Bannister
There's others. And all uphold the right to search vehicles for the same reason that this vehicle search went down.
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No mind reading needed here. You hate cops...Crump is a known cop hating lawyer. You two would get along well.
In other words, you don't understand what you read and rather than expend the energy to discover meaning you assign values to the writer, a flaw in people exploited well by the Marxists, as George Orwell pointed out.
When was the last time you discussed a subject and didn't descend into psychoanalysis and stereotyping?
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Kansas v Glover
Carroll v United States
Husty v United States
Colorado v Bannister
There's others. And all uphold the right to search vehicles for the same reason that this vehicle search went down.
Because the cops were dicks?
So are you now admit that the cops escalated the encounter to engineer an excuse to search the car? Do you think they did that because if they found drugs they could steal the car...er "seize" the vehicle for the benefit of their po-leese department?
Why, then, do you "feel" they deliberately escalated the incident? What did they hope to gain by it, do you know? There had to be reason why they acted so improperly?
In the initial reason to stop the vehicle, what did the instigating "cop" see that justified the deployment of lethal weapons?
Why did he not, immediately upon stopping his patrol car behind the victim's vehicle, simply get out of the car and approach the driver's window? That would certainly have prevented an endless set of stairs from. rising out of the basement.
The "cops" performed their jobs poorly here. Stop blaming the victim. The "cops" here were an embarrassment to professional law enforcement officers everywhere.
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In other words, you don't understand what you read and rather than expend the energy to discover meaning you assign values to the writer, a flaw in people exploited well by the Marxists, as George Orwell pointed out.
When was the last time you discussed a subject and didn't descend into psychoanalysis and stereotyping?
I understand clearly. I have conversations like that all the time on here with rational people.
You are not rational. And I side with Orwell.
What part of taking responsibility for your actions...where the 2LT is concerned is so confusing to you?
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Because the cops were dicks?
So are you now admit that the cops escalated the encounter to engineer an excuse to search the car? Do you think they did that because if they found drugs they could steal the car...er "seize" the vehicle for the benefit of their po-leese department?
Why, then, do you "feel" they deliberately escalated the incident? What did they hope to gain by it, do you know? There had to be reason why they acted so improperly?
In the initial reason to stop the vehicle, what did the instigating "cop" see that justified the deployment of lethal weapons?
Why did he not, immediately upon stopping his patrol car behind the victim's vehicle, simply get out of the car and approach the driver's window? That would certainly have prevented an endless set of stairs from. rising out of the basement.
The "cops" performed their jobs poorly here. Stop blaming the victim. The "cops" here were an embarrassment to professional law enforcement officers everywhere.
You are not rational. Your latent hatred of cops is clear in everything you bang out one handed on your keyboard.
Nothing rational reasonable or backed by case law will make any difference with you.
I truly feel sorry for any cop that has to stop you for a traffic violation.
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Where is that a "right" exactly? They were telling him to take his seat belt off and exit the vehicle. He refused.
No they didn't. They escalated the scenario because of the refusal of the driver to comply with lawful orders.
Again...decisions made by the 2LT led to this. OR have we totally abandoned the concept of taking responsibility for our own actions?
And in spite of all that Gutierrez lost his job and the 2Lt will end up considerably more wealthy as a result of this ‘good policing’.
When all they had to do was be civil.
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I understand clearly. I have conversations like that all the time on here with rational people.
You are not rational. And I side with Orwell.
What part of taking responsibility for your actions...where the 2LT is concerned is so confusing to you?
The "cop" was fired. That's taking responsibility pretty well, I'd say.
When the VERY FIRST THING the cop does when he gets out of the patrol car is to draw a weapons, for no obvious reason, the cops have too much authority.
Or didn't you watch the video?
Here's a hint:
The cops are part of the government.
The government is SUPPOSED TO BE fearful of the people.
Not the other way around.
People who understand what Orwell was saying understand this.
Tell me again why it's acceptable for "cops" to assault people on the streets for no identifiable reason? How is this consistent with the spirit of the Glorious Revolution?
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And in spite of all that Gutierrez lost his job and the 2Lt will end up considerably more wealthy as a result of this ‘good policing’.
When all they had to do was be civil.
All they had to do was explain that they wanted to check license and registration and insurance because they didn't see the temporary tags.
Things would have gone good for everyone, then.
If the "cops" had only done their job in a professional manner.
It really does make me wonder what the "cops" were up to, there? What's the status of the civil forfeiture extortion scams in VA now?
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And in spite of all that Gutierrez lost his job and the 2Lt will end up considerably more wealthy as a result of this ‘good policing’.
When all they had to do was be civil.
And all the 2LT had to do was stop when the lights came on behind him. And none of this would have happened.
Hell the only reason the cop got fired now for something that happened back in December is because the 2LT decided to file a lawsuit...four months later.
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You are not rational. Your latent hatred of cops is clear in everything you bang out one handed on your keyboard.
Nothing rational reasonable or backed by case law will make any difference with you.
I truly feel sorry for any cop that has to stop you for a traffic violation.
Oh, so long it's only a latent hatred.
So you don't know what the word "latent" means.
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And all the 2LT had to do was stop when the lights came on behind him. And none of this would have happened.
Hell the only reason the cop got fired now for something that happened back in December is because the 2LT decided to file a lawsuit...four months later.
Oh.
So there's a time limit on when lawsuits can be filed, something shorter than four months or it doesn't count? Usually people have a few years to file those kind of claims.
Good to know the "cops" were innocent of all wrong-doing until the lawsuit was filed. So they had four more months to shake people down and abuse their authority. Good to know.
But it's all the victim's fault for filing the lawsuit. Shame on him for trying to protect his (our) rights.
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I watched enough and listened to the police audios. I didn't listen to any of the crappy commentaries though. What do you care? Do you need to be told what to think?
No I don't need to be told what to think, But if you are going to make an HONEST assessment you need to have as many facts, preferable ALL the facts.
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The cop should have approached the vehicle and investigated.
Guess what they're paid to do?
Most of those seven minutes were spent with a raging "cop" outside his patrol car with a gun pointed at the victim. Why the hell should the victim not take his sweet time getting the window open, so he could record the event?
If the cop had simply gotten out of his vehicle, like HE'S SUPPOSED TO DO, and TALKED to the driver, face to face, NONE of this would have happened.
It's really that simple.
I got stopped by a jack-ass cop in an unmarked car because HE tried to cut me off by running a stop sign. He then play tail-gate games and then two miles later, after I went through a yellow light...he had to go through the red, he flashed his lights and I realized he wasn't just some dickless citizen with an attitude, he was a dickless cop being a dick with an attitude, who then tried to browbeat me over some such nonsense as how he had the right of way for being a cop yada yada yada. Until I pointed out that he wasn't responding to an emergency call, he didn't have his lights flashing, and he ran the red light, not me. Then he got fed up and left.
Another time some dipshit was going 20 in a 35 zone. So I passed him. Two blocks later, he came up next to me, clearly he was turning to wherever his home was, and yelled "hey, punk, see this?" and flashed his penis...er his badge at me. I gave him the finger and asked if he saw that.
I've lots of fine experiences with the police, even had one thank ME for being polite when I got caught in a BS speed trap. When they're doing their job CORRECTLY, they're fine. Some of them are jerks. The two I described are jerks, the two animals in the OP deserved to lose their jobs.
You should try to be objective some time. After all, conservatives are better than Rodents, so you shouldn't argue like the Rodents do.
Got it, your whole tirade is based on you hating cops. I really wish you would have just said this up front so I could have wasted a lot less time. I really hope that if you continue with your attitude that it works out for you.
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I understand clearly. I have conversations like that all the time on here with rational people.
You are not rational. And I side with Orwell.
What part of taking responsibility for your actions...where the 2LT is concerned is so confusing to you?
I am going to save my breath and not waste any more time with that Jack Wipe. He hates cops and can't see beyond his own inept logic.
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No I don't need to be told what to think, But if you are going to make an HONEST assessment you need to have as many facts, preferable ALL the facts.
How am I supposed to take your comments? Really? I'm done with U.
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And all the 2LT had to do was stop when the lights came on behind him. And none of this would have happened.
Hell the only reason the cop got fired now for something that happened back in December is because the 2LT decided to file a lawsuit...four months later.
Yup, he went for a minute or two to find a place off the busy road. How evil of him. That certainly justifies pulling a gun on him, pepper spraying him and illegally searching his car.
Now, again...why did the "cops" blow this thing up all out of proportion? There's a reason for it, why haven't you asked?
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Got it, your whole tirade is based on you hating cops. I really wish you would have just said this up front so I could have wasted a lot less time. I really hope that if you continue with your attitude that it works out for you.
Got it. You whole schtick is finding something imaginary and arguing against that, to make yourself feel good.
Meanwhile, how's the health of the Fourth Amendment doing? Have you checked? Do you care about your old friends who are feeling lonely and abandoned now?
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I am going to save my breath and not waste any more time with that Jack Wipe. He hates cops and can't see beyond his own inept logic.
Agreed. It's pretty obvious he's got a deep seated hatred for cops and can't discuss this rationally.
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Got it. You whole schtick is finding something imaginary and arguing against that, to make yourself feel good.
Meanwhile, how's the health of the Fourth Amendment doing? Have you checked? Do you care about your old friends who are feeling lonely and abandoned now?
Get back to me when you are back on your meds. If you aren't on any you might consider looking into it.
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Get back to me when you are back on your meds. If you aren't on any you might consider looking into it.
I don't see why you need to return. You haven't contributed anything useful to the discussion.
So, bye.
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I don't see why you need to return. You haven't contributed anything useful to the discussion.
So, bye.
I provided FACTS, I can see where an anti cop hater such as yourself would not find those useful. I asked you to tell me the EXACt location of the plates and the exact numbers and letters on them. Still waiting. I explained that being detained meant he was required to comply with requests from the officers. I explained and the (His own) video showed his failure to put his hands out. He was also in possession of a firearm with in reach of his right hand. So in fact it is you that have provided nothing useful. welcome to my ignore list loser.
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:im waiting:
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:im waiting:
Uh-oh Mod4 is back from the shop. Wonder if the cigarette lighter is working now.
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Uh-oh Mod4 is back from the shop. Wonder if the cigarette lighter is working now.
:smokin:
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:smokin:
:tongue2:
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I got here without a cigarette lighter @txradioguy
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Beater_Nissan.jpg)
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Once the driver refused to comply with the officers commands...he was guilty of obstruction. From that point on he determined how that entire stoop went.
@txradioguy
So,if the cop had told him to strip naked to insure he wasn't concealing a weapon,and to stand on his head to prevent him from attacking anyone,that would be peachy-keen with you?
It seems you are either a cop,or have been a cop in the past. Everyone else understands cops aren't our masters,and have no authority to treat us like criminals unless they caught us committing a crime.
Yeah,it is technically a "crime" to drive a vehicle that doesn't have a license tag displayed.
So is rape,murder,arson,etc,etc,etc. Are all these offenses equal in your opinion,or do the "perps" deserve to be treated different if they are only SUSPECTED of committing a traffic offense and refused to be dominated by an out of control power freak with a badge?
The choice that 2LT made determined how that stop was going to go.
No,the choice Officer Asshat made to act like a bully control freak of one of the most minor "offenses" in the book,one that was a wrong assumption on top of that,is what excalated the incident.
ALL he had to do was ask the driver why he didn't wasn't displaying a license tag,which would have resulted in something like "Huh? I have a tag. It's on the back window.",and they would have then disovered a tag that had came loose and fell from the glass.
Big freaking deal. End of drama,a trip to the local conveninece store for some scotch tape,and the problem would have been fixed and both gone home with smiles on their faces.
Did Officer asshat do that? Nope! He started treating it like a felony arrest stop on a known violent felon.
Or do you not believe in personal responsibility for your own actions anymore?
Do you believe cops should be held responsible for their actions?
If my kids or even myself had acted like that 2LT had...I'd have no room to complain about what happened next. Because the conscious decisions I would have made to ignore the officers commands would have led to the end result.
You are going to have to excuse me on that one. I have a VERY hard time believing it,given the evidence on display,and the fact that even the cops Chief thought he was out of line far enough to be fired.
After all,who knows more about the mindset and the attitude of Officer Authora-Tay,his Chief,or you?
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Couldn't see the tag...refused to stop when first lit up.
Can't blame them one bit for having guns drawn at first till they knew what they were dealing with. Especially with what's been happening lately. Two cops run over in DC and one shot in the head on a routine traffic stop in rural NM.
@txradioguy
Out of how many tens of thousands of stops made by cops every day that lead to nothing more than a ticket issued for a minor violation?
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I got here without a cigarette lighter @txradioguy
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Beater_Nissan.jpg)
:silly:
The most abused Mod vehicle in the TBR Motor Pool.
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@txradioguy
Out of how many tens of thousands of stops made by cops every day that lead to nothing more than a ticket issued for a minor violation?
@sneakypete you just made my point for me.
The percentages catch up with everyone at some point.
No matter how many normal interactions a cop has with the public...at some point there will be an incident that goes sideways.
Just like no matter how many lifeguards you have at a beach...at some point the law of averages will catch up and someone will drown.
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@sneakypete you just made my point for me.
The percentages catch up with everyone at some point.
No matter how many normal interactions a cop has with the public...at some point there will be an incident that goes sideways.
Just like no matter how many lifeguards you have at a beach...at some point the law of averages will catch up and someone will drown.
Between the cops my uncle worked with up north and the various ones I have worked with as School resource officers almost everyone has had an incident that went "Sideways". My uncle ended up permanently disabled due to his.
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Still contradicting yourself "Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop." in your previous post. The Lt was being DETAINED,
@verga
Really? WHEN did the cop tell him that he was under arrest,and what the charges were? I somehow seemed to miss that.
Tinted windows (So they can't see into the vehicle,)
"Tinted windows"?
The HORRORS!
Maybe you should take that up with the auto manufacterer,not the customer that bought their produce. Send Officer Cartman to Detroit to arrest the Chairman of the Board for whatever corporation made the SUV.
They can't see how many people are in the vehicle or if they are armed.
Maybe that officer should have put on his "Big Girl Panties" before starting his shift?
Or maybe,if he is THAT afraid of doing his job,he should be looking for another one.
Which,he is in fact doing right now. Unfortunately,it will probably be another job in LE,even though he has proved beyond a doubt to not be able to handle.
And don't say that doesn't happen.I know for a fact it does,and chances are,so do you. I was helping a friend run his rifle range once while people were qualifying to buy a arsonnel rebuilt Garand from the NRA,and there were a bunch of cops there that I,and the range owner knew. They were all making fun of this one idiot that seemed to be having trouble doing stuff like keeping his muzzle downrange,and told us that this guy had already been fired from at least three LE agencies,and was out putting in applications in new cities.
It happens all the time. Sure,he is destined to screw up again,get fired for abuse of power again,and once again cause some city to face a lawsuit,but by then the damage will have been done.
I also attended the graduation ceremony for new cops in a medium-sized city because a woman friend of mine had just graduated and invited me. I was stunned to hear the judge holding the ceremony tell the new cops outright to "not worry about violating the rights of a criminal because if the case went before him,they were "golden".
It was all I could do to sit still and not jump up screaming "fascist bastard!",but I didn't want to cause my friend any trouble.
No visible license plate, so they don't know if the vehicle is stolen.
The flip side of that is they didn't have even the tiniest bit of evidence to suspect it WAS stolen.
And don't try to use that "no license on display" lame line of shit to defend the undefendable. Traffic cops probably run into that problem a couple of times a week,every week. Anybody who has ever had one of those paper temporary "license tags" glued to their back window know the glue sucks,and in a day or two the wind will be blowing it off.
Blame the state for not issuing the cardboard tags that bolt to the bumper for this,not the consumer.
He continued to leave the car running after being told 5-6 times to turn it off. Instead he used that time to set up his cell phone to record the incident. He did not have BOTH hands out the window until being told over 10 times (He only had his left arm out. and He had a FIREARM within reach of his right hand. If I am in that situation your DAMN right I am approaching with my sidearm out.
Excuses,excuses,excuses.
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You have the right to continue to a safe well lit area even after being lit up. And I'm not going to reach down to unhook my seatbelt with two cops shouting and pointing their guns at me. The cops escalated the situation unnecessarily.
@skeeter
Same here. When I get stopped,I roll down my window before the cop gets out of his patrol car,and then sit still with both hands wrapped around the top of the steering wheel.
When the cop asks for my drivers license and registration,I ask for permission to disconnect my shoulder harness so I can reach for it.
The only times I have ever had trouble with cops at a traffic stop were the two times I didn't stop in the road,but drove to the next public driveway and pulled off into the parking lot to cut my ignition off,roll down the window,and wait for the cop to come to the window. They both seemed to be pissed at me not stopping immediately,and were still pissed when I told them only a fool would stop in a traffic lane because it was unsafe,and they can not require me to do anything unsafe.
BTW,I can't be the only one old enough to remember when cops would thank you for pulling off of the road into somewhere safe before stopping?
When did this "stop on the road with the patrol car blocking traffic" insanity start,and WHY has it been so widely accepted? Anyone know?
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Where is that a "right" exactly? They were telling him to take his seat belt off and exit the vehicle. He refused.
No they didn't. They escalated the scenario because of the refusal of the driver to comply with lawful orders.
Again...decisions made by the 2LT led to this. OR have we totally abandoned the concept of taking responsibility for our own actions?
They certainly looked like lawful orders to me and he certainly wasn't cooperating with them. What the hell do people expect to happen when they act like that??? The more he resisted the more force was going to be applied.
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Where is that a "right" exactly? They were telling him to take his seat belt off and exit the vehicle. He refused.
@txradioguy
He was clearly wrong about that one. As for a fear of being beaten by the cops goes,when was the last time anyone remembers cops beating an Army officer in uniform over a traffic violation?
AND....,he was already stopped in a shopping center parking lot where there were witnesses if something illegal did happen.
He threw away any chance of winning a lawsuit when he did that.
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What is simple is that the victim was not informed of the probable cause for the stop. Since it was a simple traffic stop, the cops had no business trying to haul the victim out of the vehicle.
@Sled Dog
True dat! He did himself no favors by refusing,though. You do NOT win roadside arguments with a cop. You cooperate within reason (as long as it doesn't put you in danger),and file a lawsuit or formal complaint later.
Yeah,the asshat cop was wrong,but that doesn't mean you need to get into a "I can outwrong you!" contest with him in a freaking parking lot.
Just because he doesn't have enough common sense to pour urine out of a boot,it doesn't mean you have to top him.
What was done was an assault. Refusing to comply with an unlawful order, to exit the vehicle, is not a crime. The cops failed to follow procedure. It's that simple.
All true,but once again,this is NOT an argument you are going to win in a parking lot. Make your argument in court,where it will count and their will be negative consequences for his actions.
Arguing with a cop during a traffic stop is akin to beating your head against a wall to make it stop hurting.
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Where is that a "right" exactly? They were telling him to take his seat belt off and exit the vehicle. He refused.
@txradioguy
He was clearly wrong about that one. As for a fear of being beaten by the cops goes,when was the last time anyone remembers cops beating an Army officer in uniform over a traffic violation?
AND....,he was already stopped in a shopping center parking lot where there were witnesses if something illegal did happen.
He threw away any chance of winning a lawsuit when he did that.
IMHO he didn't have any reasonable "fear" of being beaten. IF he claims that than it's clear...again...IMHO...that he's sold his soul to the woke brigade.
I agree about the lawsuit. But I'm guessing he'll win due to skin color. And because of the whole "different spanks for different ranks" he'll not have a thing done to him by his chain of command in the Virginia National Guard.
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They certainly looked like lawful orders to me and he certainly wasn't cooperating with them. What the hell do people expect to happen when they act like that??? The more he resisted the more force was going to be applied.
@DB agree completely.
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The cliff notes version is that the Fourth Amendment sets limits on what the police can do.
These clowns exceeded that.
When they violated his Fourth Amendment protections, they violated YOUR Fourth Amendment protections.
You should try to care more about these cases and recognize them for the threats they are. Don't automatically side with the cops on these issues, make the effort to understand what happened.
What happened here is that the cops got excited and over-reacted.
@Sled Dog
All true,but once again,the place to make these arguments is in open court,in front of a judge.
Name the last time ANYONE won an arguement with a cop based on Constitutional law
in a parking lot.
The place to do this is in court,where you can get the charges kicked,and might even win some money in a law suit.
Name the last time anyone won a parking lot argument with a cop,and ended up with a bag of cash,in addition to getting the bad cop fired, to boot.
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@skeeter
Same here. When I get stopped,I roll down my window before the cop gets out of his patrol car,and then sit still with both hands wrapped around the top of the steering wheel.
When the cop asks for my drivers license and registration,I ask for permission to disconnect my shoulder harness so I can reach for it.
The only times I have ever had trouble with cops at a traffic stop were the two times I didn't stop in the road,but drove to the next public driveway and pulled off into the parking lot to cut my ignition off,roll down the window,and wait for the cop to come to the window. They both seemed to be pissed at me not stopping immediately,and were still pissed when I told them only a fool would stop in a traffic lane because it was unsafe,and they can not require me to do anything unsafe.
BTW,I can't be the only one old enough to remember when cops would thank you for pulling off of the road into somewhere safe before stopping?
When did this "stop on the road with the patrol car blocking traffic" insanity start,and WHY has it been so widely accepted? Anyone know?
Not saying the Lt couldn't have handled the situation better, but I expect our police to be a little more psychologically savvy.
Surely they could've tried something more subtle than 'I'll blow you away, get out the car', especially after they had determined the guy was no threat.
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All they had to do was explain that they wanted to check license and registration and insurance because they didn't see the temporary tags.
Things would have gone good for everyone, then.
@Sled Dog
Seems like such a simple thing to do,doesn't it?
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I provided FACTS, I can see where an anti cop hater such as yourself would not find those useful. I asked you to tell me the EXACt location of the plates and the exact numbers and letters on them. Still waiting. I explained that being detained meant he was required to comply with requests from the officers. I explained and the (His own) video showed his failure to put his hands out. He was also in possession of a firearm with in reach of his right hand. So in fact it is you that have provided nothing useful. welcome to my ignore list loser.
So did I.
The fact of the matter is that the cops immediately whipped out their guns for no valid reason whatsoever.
The cops did not know he had a firearm available when the stop was made, so their immediate resort to weapons was unnecessary.
They were just chicken-poop cops.
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@Sled Dog
Seems like such a simple thing to do,doesn't it?
Yeah, I'm not seeing why the cop exited his patrol car and immediately pulled his weapon.
People can get shot when amateurs act like that.
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@Sled Dog
All true,but once again,the place to make these arguments is in open court,in front of a judge.
Name the last time ANYONE won an arguement with a cop based on Constitutional law
in a parking lot.
The place to do this is in court,where you can get the charges kicked,and might even win some money in a law suit.
Name the last time anyone won a parking lot argument with a cop,and ended up with a bag of cash,in addition to getting the bad cop fired, to boot.
I've seen a few videos where the victim stands on his rights to know probable cause in which the cop gives up and leaves.
It's not impossible, especially when the encounter is being recorded by the victim and the assailant knows it.
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What is simple is that the victim was not informed of the probable cause for the stop. Since it was a simple traffic stop, the cops had no business trying to haul the victim out of the vehicle.
@Sled Dog
True dat! He did himself no favors by refusing,though. You do NOT win roadside arguments with a cop. You cooperate within reason (as long as it doesn't put you in danger),and file a lawsuit or formal complaint later.
Yeah,the asshat cop was wrong,but that doesn't mean you need to get into a "I can outwrong you!" contest with him in a freaking parking lot.
Just because he doesn't have enough common sense to pour urine out of a boot,it doesn't mean you have to top him.
What was done was an assault. Refusing to comply with an unlawful order, to exit the vehicle, is not a crime. The cops failed to follow procedure. It's that simple.
All true,but once again,this is NOT an argument you are going to win in a parking lot. Make your argument in court,where it will count and their will be negative consequences for his actions.
Arguing with a cop during a traffic stop is akin to beating your head against a wall to make it stop hurting.
The victim has the right to refuse to comply with unlawful orders.
Threatening him with death if he refuses to exit the vehicle, with absolutely no justification behind the threat, is certainly an unlawful act.
I notice the victim won the battle, the attacker lost his job. Too bad he won't be charged with felony assault with a deadly weapon, as would happen to any non-cop pointing a gun at someone without cause.
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I've seen a few videos where the victim stands on his rights to know probable cause in which the cop gives up and leaves.
It's not impossible, especially when the encounter is being recorded by the victim and the assailant knows it.
@Sled Dog
All true,but that doesn't do a single damn thing to stop that sort of police conduct. The ONLY way to stop it is to take the SOB to court and win a lawsuit against him/her and the agency that employs them.
It ain't real to the county or city managers until it starts to cost them money and negative publicity.
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I notice the victim won the battle, the attacker lost his job. Too bad he won't be charged with felony assault with a deadly weapon, as would happen to any non-cop pointing a gun at someone without cause.
@Sled Dog
All of which MAY have happened if the Lt had kept his cool,let the fool continue to step on his penis,and then filed a law suit.
That is the ONLY way this sort of thing will stop happening.
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Still contradicting yourself "Those orders were lawful and routine for a traffic stop." in your previous post. The Lt was being DETAINED,
@verga
Really? WHEN did the cop tell him that he was under arrest,and what the charges were? I somehow seemed to miss that.
Tinted windows (So they can't see into the vehicle,)
"Tinted windows"?
The HORRORS!
Maybe you should take that up with the auto manufacterer,not the customer that bought their produce. Send Officer Cartman to Detroit to arrest the Chairman of the Board for whatever corporation made the SUV.
They can't see how many people are in the vehicle or if they are armed.
Maybe that officer should have put on his "Big Girl Panties" before starting his shift?
Or maybe,if he is THAT afraid of doing his job,he should be looking for another one.
Which,he is in fact doing right now. Unfortunately,it will probably be another job in LE,even though he has proved beyond a doubt to not be able to handle.
And don't say that doesn't happen.I know for a fact it does,and chances are,so do you. I was helping a friend run his rifle range once while people were qualifying to buy a arsonnel rebuilt Garand from the NRA,and there were a bunch of cops there that I,and the range owner knew. They were all making fun of this one idiot that seemed to be having trouble doing stuff like keeping his muzzle downrange,and told us that this guy had already been fired from at least three LE agencies,and was out putting in applications in new cities.
It happens all the time. Sure,he is destined to screw up again,get fired for abuse of power again,and once again cause some city to face a lawsuit,but by then the damage will have been done.
I also attended the graduation ceremony for new cops in a medium-sized city because a woman friend of mine had just graduated and invited me. I was stunned to hear the judge holding the ceremony tell the new cops outright to "not worry about violating the rights of a criminal because if the case went before him,they were "golden".
It was all I could do to sit still and not jump up screaming "fascist bastard!",but I didn't want to cause my friend any trouble.
No visible license plate, so they don't know if the vehicle is stolen.
The flip side of that is they didn't have even the tiniest bit of evidence to suspect it WAS stolen.
And don't try to use that "no license on display" lame line of shit to defend the undefendable. Traffic cops probably run into that problem a couple of times a week,every week. Anybody who has ever had one of those paper temporary "license tags" glued to their back window know the glue sucks,and in a day or two the wind will be blowing it off.
Blame the state for not issuing the cardboard tags that bolt to the bumper for this,not the consumer.
He continued to leave the car running after being told 5-6 times to turn it off. Instead he used that time to set up his cell phone to record the incident. He did not have BOTH hands out the window until being told over 10 times (He only had his left arm out. and He had a FIREARM within reach of his right hand. If I am in that situation your DAMN right I am approaching with my sidearm out.
Excuses,excuses,excuses.
If you watched the video, the officer tells him he is under arrest then tells him that he is being detained. This is when he has holstered his sidearm and before he is pepper sprayed. As for everything else, we agree on a good many points, but on this you are dead wrong. The Lt knew what he was doing and was setting himself up to be a martyr.
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@sneakypete you just made my point for me.
The percentages catch up with everyone at some point.
No matter how many normal interactions a cop has with the public...at some point there will be an incident that goes sideways.
Just like no matter how many lifeguards you have at a beach...at some point the law of averages will catch up and someone will drown.
So that means, despite the assurances of the Fourth Amendment, that every cop is perfectly justified in threatening lethal force against every citizen interaction?
I don't think so.
If they can't handle the job, they need to find a new one. Possibly lap dancing or something similar that's more suitable to their true natures.
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Again...the driver refused to comply with simple commands from the officer. You would think a commissioned officer in the military...especially a lowly 2LT would understand complying with commands you're being given.
Had he simply done what the officer said the first time he asked...we wouldn't know who this weekend warrior was...nor would we care.
And it's really kinda sad to see people on here who consider themselves Conservative continue disparage the officers and the rule of law. You're letting your own personal bad experience with law enforcement cloud your common sense and judgement.
Are there bad cops? Of course...but it's not these two. And given the ay police are under attack from every corner these days you can' blame them for being tense in this situation...especially given how the driver refused to stop and then refused to comply with the officers. That right there ramps up the tension.
And IMHO you can't get mad at the cops for enforcing the laws passed by the city/county/state. They merely enforce them. Don't like the laws...vote people in that will change the laws...or get elected to a city council yourself and be the change.
And I can tell you for a fact...that had that idiot 2LT behaved in the same manner on ANY military installation...the Military Police officers that pulled him over wouldn't have acted any differently.
If he had done what the officer said, he'd likely be dead.
Consider, the door is locked. Power windows, and to open them the engine or at least ignition has to be on.
By the time the window is down, the police have weapons drawn. Stick your hands out, as they want, and then they want him to open the door. At that point they have him bracketed, weapons drawn, and are obviously agitated.
Had the driver brought his hand back inside the vehicle to unlock the door, it is likely he would have been shot. The driver was complying with the first command to put his hands out the window, and got maced for not bringing his hands back inside to unlock the door (still beats a bullet). Conflicting commands and confronted by officers with weapons drawn.
The officer tried, numerous times, to open the locked door, even reaching into the vehicle for the lock or to attempt to unlatch or unlock it and getting increasingly agitated because the door was locked. Again, the other officer had his weapon drawn, in compliance with seat belt laws, the driver had his seat belt on and the door locked, and could not open the door or get out without removing a hand from view. With the level of agitation on the part of the police, removing a hand from view would likely have resulted in serious injury or death to the driver.
The Lt. repeatedly asked what this was about, and even was told that he would be informed in a moment, but was given no answer during the initial body cam video. Had he been given an answer, dialogue would have been initiated and the situation could have been defused. That opportunity was not presented. Frankly I saw the "This is messed up" comments not as resistance so much as disbelief. If the Lt didn't have a chip on his shoulder before, he will going forward unless he is the sort of man who will attribute the problem to individuals and not the profession they represent.
IMHO, the situation could have been handled better by the officers.
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If you watched the video, the officer tells him he is under arrest then tells him that he is being detained. This is when he has holstered his sidearm and before he is pepper sprayed. As for everything else, we agree on a good many points, but on this you are dead wrong. The Lt knew what he was doing and was setting himself up to be a martyr.
"Detained" and not arrested? One just takes less paperwork, but resist being "detained" and you will be arrested on a charge of "resisting"...but not an arrest? Sorry,but bullshit. Either you are free to go or you are not. It's just weasel words. Call it what it is: held without charges.
The Lt. repeatedly asked what the stop was about. Not once did I hear a word of explanation.
So the officer holstered his weapon and maced the Lt. Was that really necessary? The other officer had him under his gun. How many 13/15/17 round mags does it take to put down some guy sitting in the car?
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Yeah, I'm not seeing why the cop exited his patrol car and immediately pulled his weapon.
People can get shot when amateurs act like that.
The cop was ex military corporal. Not amateur. I THINK, HE KNOWS ABOUT DANGER. No one is listening to OFFICER TATUM.
TATUM, SHOWS YOU HOW EASILY POLICE GET SHOT! POLICE DID NOTHING WRONG. Lordy, Lordy.
The army officer had attitude. DID NOT COMPLY..AT ALL. That makes him a suspect for some dangerous actions. As if, people don't have eyes......
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The cop was ex military corporal. Not amateur.
@LegalAmerican
ROFLMAO!
Good one!
Thanks!
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The cop was ex military corporal. Not amateur. I THINK, HE KNOWS ABOUT DANGER. No one is listening to OFFICER TATUM.
TATUM, SHOWS YOU HOW EASILY POLICE GET SHOT! POLICE DID NOTHING WRONG. Lordy, Lordy.
The army officer had attitude. DID NOT COMPLY..AT ALL. That makes him a suspect for some dangerous actions. As if, people don't have eyes......
I don't pretend to know the cop's service record.
Past military service does not mean he holds a CIB. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but he is drawing down on an American in America, not some haji in the sandbox.
He may have been a clerk in supply for all I know, and not in combat, like 90% of those in the service who never fire their weapons at the enemy.
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I don't pretend to know the cop's service record.
Past military service does not mean he holds a CIB. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but he is drawing down on an American in America, not some haji in the sandbox.
He may have been a clerk in supply for all I know, and not in combat, like 90% of those in the service who never fire their weapons at the enemy.
The man says it himself, when talking, to jerky army guy. Watch OFFICER TATUM. Watch. the whole thing, please.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBMnJyOiT0&t=2s
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The cop was ex military corporal. Not amateur. I THINK, HE KNOWS ABOUT DANGER. No one is listening to OFFICER TATUM.
TATUM, SHOWS YOU HOW EASILY POLICE GET SHOT! POLICE DID NOTHING WRONG. Lordy, Lordy.
The army officer had attitude. DID NOT COMPLY..AT ALL. That makes him a suspect for some dangerous actions. As if, people don't have eyes......
QFT
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QFT = Quoted For Truth.
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QFT = Quoted For Truth.
Oh, I get slammed so often. I removed my post. Thank you. Still don't know, why...that was said.
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Oh, I get slammed so often. I removed my post. Thank you. Still don't know, why...that was said.
@LegalAmerican
If someone says QFT (quoted for truth) 99.9% of the time it means the person that said it agrees completely with what you said and doesn't have anything to add to what you said to enhance or add onto your statement.
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@Sighlass
You blame him for not responding in a positive way to "stoopid"?
Just WHAT did he do or say that put either one of those cops in danger?
Watch this video (of course you will not)... I even more firmly stand by what I said. The army guy was just being a total jerk for selfish reasons (internet fame). The army guy filmed himself and watch the smirk he has when he is ignoring commands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBMnJyOiT0&t=6s
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Watch this video (of course you will not)... I even more firmly stand by what I said. The army guy was just being a total jerk for selfish reasons (internet fame). The army guy filmed himself and watch the smirk he has when he is ignoring commands.
snip video
I watch those 5 min videos of State Troopers or Sheriff's Deputies or uniform police in general are shown up for demanding ID for somebody filming a public building from off premises.
Everybody wants to go viral if it shows up "The Man".
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Watch this video (of course you will not)... I even more firmly stand by what I said. The army guy was just being a total jerk for selfish reasons (internet fame). The army guy filmed himself and watch the smirk he has when he is ignoring commands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBMnJyOiT0&t=6s
@Sighlass
Ok,to start with,the commentator is full of crap from the very beginning. It is both common AND legal for temporary tags from a car dealership to be made from paper and stuck inside the rear window of cars and trucks. I was pulled in Denver in the late 70's by two DPD cops for "failure to display a license tag",and when it was spotted laying on the rear seat because the glue was crappy and the wind coming through the windows had blown it off.
What you have is Officer Cartman going all "Macho Man" for NOTHING MORE SERIOUS THAN A TECHNICAL VIOLATION.
For THIS,he pulls his gun,points it at a man doing nothing more than driving down the road and bothering no one,and starts screaming threats and orders at him.
The Lt knew he had done nothing wrong,so he saw no reason to cower.
It was at this point I stopped watching because it had already been established that the commentator either doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground,or he is knowingly lying.
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@LegalAmerican
If someone says QFT (quoted for truth) 99.9% of the time it means the person that said it agrees completely with what you said and doesn't have anything to add to what you said to enhance or add onto your statement.
Thank you. So many acronyms to know. I leaned a little "s" on here means sarcasm. Then BK. Book mark. lol Like learning a new language. 888high58888
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Bah. The guy's a player. He's playing this. He set up his phone to play it.
Cops are legit. It was a legit stop. It was a legit escalation.
He was non-compliant as hell. On purpose.
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Again...the driver refused to comply with simple commands from the officer. You would think a commissioned officer in the military...especially a lowly 2LT would understand complying with commands you're being given.
Had he simply done what the officer said the first time he asked...we wouldn't know who this weekend warrior was...nor would we care.
And it's really kinda sad to see people on here who consider themselves Conservative continue disparage the officers and the rule of law. You're letting your own personal bad experience with law enforcement cloud your common sense and judgement.
Are there bad cops? Of course...but it's not these two. And given the ay police are under attack from every corner these days you can' blame them for being tense in this situation...especially given how the driver refused to stop and then refused to comply with the officers. That right there ramps up the tension.
And IMHO you can't get mad at the cops for enforcing the laws passed by the city/county/state. They merely enforce them. Don't like the laws...vote people in that will change the laws...or get elected to a city council yourself and be the change.
That's right.
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Slow-rolling the cops make em think you are hiding something. Typical druggie move. Then pull over and don't comply - suspicious as hell - you don't want them looking in your rig. Again, looks squirrely as hell to a cop. Of course they are going to escalate - That is EXACTLY the kind of weird crap that gets em killed.
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Slow-rolling the cops make em think you are hiding something. Typical druggie move. Then pull over and don't comply - suspicious as hell - you don't want them looking in your rig. Again, looks squirrely as hell to a cop. Of course they are going to escalate - That is EXACTLY the kind of weird crap that gets em killed.
@roamer_1
ROFLMAO!
Hard to believe anybody is that clueless,but given that your dream seems to be to live in the 1800's,it shouldn't be a surprise.
What little knowledge you have on this issue was gained from watching "Cops" reruns on tv,wasn't it?
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@roamer_1
ROFLMAO!
Hard to believe anybody is that clueless,but given that your dream seems to be to live in the 1800's,it shouldn't be a surprise.
What little knowledge you have on this issue was gained from watching "Cops" reruns on tv,wasn't it?
@sneakypete
Naw Pete. My knowledge of the issue is by direct experience in my gloriously misspent yoot.
I have been where he was - but with a helluva lot more guns. And I complied my ass off.
I have also been warned for exactly the same thing - A temp sticker HAS TO BE VISIBLE. Since my recently purchased pickup had a dark tinted rear window, the sticker was not visible, and that is why he stopped me.
Turned out to be a simple matter. I had packing tape on board, and we bulsh*tted while I took the sticker out of the cab and taped it (covered in tape to preserve it) neatly on the outside of the rear window... And he was more than satisfied, shook my hand and I went on my way. No worries.
I done ALOT of business with the cops in my career, and for the most part there is a professionalism that is nearly always evident to someone who is a frequent flyer. So long as you know the game.
That's how I knew the Chauvin crap was BS... Because I have had a cop with his knee on my neck on more than one occasion.
Slow roll a cop for a mile and a half, and you WILL get taken out of your car and the car will get searched. They will figger out a reason to, and the best you can do is make em wait for a warrant. Which they also WILL do, because now they think you're hiding something.
Non-compliance ALWAYS leads to escalation. They will insist. And they can.
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Please discuss the topic without going personal.
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@sneakypete
Naw Pete. My knowledge of the issue is by direct experience in my gloriously misspent yoot.
I have been where he was - but with a helluva lot more guns. And I complied my ass off.
I have also been warned for exactly the same thing - A temp sticker HAS TO BE VISIBLE. Since my recently purchased pickup had a dark tinted rear window, the sticker was not visible, and that is why he stopped me.
Turned out to be a simple matter. I had packing tape on board, and we bulsh*tted while I took the sticker out of the cab and taped it (covered in tape to preserve it) neatly on the outside of the rear window... And he was more than satisfied, shook my hand and I went on my way. No worries.
I done ALOT of business with the cops in my career, and for the most part there is a professionalism that is nearly always evident to someone who is a frequent flyer. So long as you know the game.
That's how I knew the Chauvin crap was BS... Because I have had a cop with his knee on my neck on more than one occasion.
Slow roll a cop for a mile and a half, and you WILL get taken out of your car and the car will get searched. They will figger out a reason to, and the best you can do is make em wait for a warrant. Which they also WILL do, because now they think you're hiding something.
Non-compliance ALWAYS leads to escalation. They will insist. And they can.
:thumbsup:
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@sneakypete
Naw Pete. My knowledge of the issue is by direct experience in my gloriously misspent yoot.
I have been where he was - but with a helluva lot more guns. And I complied my ass off.
I have also been warned for exactly the same thing - A temp sticker HAS TO BE VISIBLE. Since my recently purchased pickup had a dark tinted rear window, the sticker was not visible, and that is why he stopped me.
Turned out to be a simple matter. I had packing tape on board, and we bulsh*tted while I took the sticker out of the cab and taped it (covered in tape to preserve it) neatly on the outside of the rear window... And he was more than satisfied, shook my hand and I went on my way. No worries.
I done ALOT of business with the cops in my career, and for the most part there is a professionalism that is nearly always evident to someone who is a frequent flyer. So long as you know the game.
That's how I knew the Chauvin crap was BS... Because I have had a cop with his knee on my neck on more than one occasion.
Slow roll a cop for a mile and a half, and you WILL get taken out of your car and the car will get searched. They will figger out a reason to, and the best you can do is make em wait for a warrant. Which they also WILL do, because now they think you're hiding something.
Non-compliance ALWAYS leads to escalation. They will insist. And they can.
I will add that if you are really concerned about a safe place to pull over call 911 and tell them there's a cop behind you and that you are seeking a safer place to pull over along with providing them with your name. That would go a long way towards calming things down.
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@sneakypete
Naw Pete. My knowledge of the issue is by direct experience in my gloriously misspent yoot.
I have been where he was - but with a helluva lot more guns. And I complied my ass off.
I have also been warned for exactly the same thing - A temp sticker HAS TO BE VISIBLE. Since my recently purchased pickup had a dark tinted rear window, the sticker was not visible, and that is why he stopped me.
Turned out to be a simple matter. I had packing tape on board, and we bulsh*tted while I took the sticker out of the cab and taped it (covered in tape to preserve it) neatly on the outside of the rear window... And he was more than satisfied, shook my hand and I went on my way. No worries.
@roamer_1
I have had the same thing happen when I was living in Denver. It may have been the ONLY time I had any dealings with the DPD that they didn't try to bust my balls.
I notice you didn't say anything about the cop coming up to the car and pointing a gun at your head.
In MY opinion,that is what made this a big deal,and what caused things to start going downhill.
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I will add that if you are really concerned about a safe place to pull over call 911 and tell them there's a cop behind you and that you are seeking a safer place to pull over along with providing them with your name. That would go a long way towards calming things down.
@DB
EXCELLENT suggestion!
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I don't pretend to know the cop's service record.
Past military service does not mean he holds a CIB. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't, but he is drawing down on an American in America, not some haji in the sandbox.
He may have been a clerk in supply for all I know, and not in combat, like 90% of those in the service who never fire their weapons at the enemy.
The police departments do tend to try to recruit former combat arms soldiers to become law enforcement. Surprisingly they don't (for the most part) like to recruit former Military Police to become a LEO.
They do that because they know that most of your 11 Bravo's (Infantry) are familiar with a host of weapons...they are disciplined and are cool under pressure and fire. Especially so since 9/11.
I tried getting on with the city PD as well as the county sheriff here in their Public Information Office's....but they are not hiring at this point. I'd even be willing to haul my old ass through the police academy if it meant getting the job I wanted.
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@roamer_1
I have had the same thing happen when I was living in Denver. It may have been the ONLY time I had any dealings with the DPD that they didn't try to bust my balls.
I notice you didn't say anything about the cop coming up to the car and pointing a gun at your head.
In MY opinion,that is what made this a big deal,and what caused things to start going downhill.
@sneakypete
Yeah I did - up above that time, and a case of mistaken identity, though considering my jacket, I can see why the mistake was made. That was a full on bag and tag, with, I dunno, maybe ten or fifteen very pissed off cops. And all of em with guns drawn. No messing around, man...
I complied like crazy, and still got the business, big time... Maybe the worst I ever had with em other than the time I belted one of em that was trying to stop me from tearing down a bar. That was a different sort of thing, because my blood was up and the berserkergang was on me... Seeing red. Got the business big time that time too, but being on the jazz, I didn't feel it so much. But I got my ass kicked good and proper that time too - knee in the neck and the whole nine yards... and nearly a week in county just to see the judge.
Anyhoo, the time I was talking about, turns out there was a second-story guy that had a car a lot like mine, and he raped some gal. Well, I was pretty infamous at the time, and my car was on the wall at county and at city, so I see where they made the connection. But anyway, after they drug me through the knothole and back, I found out what they were so pissed about, and I had a bulletproof alibi, as I had been at work, and swung by a buddy's place for a look in his beer fridge... And his uncle was one of the cops that was there. So it flat could not have been me. Once they figgered that much out, they picked me up and dusted me off, and got an off-duty EMT to come patch me up a bit.. and apologized... And I was alright with it once they told me why they went off like they did.
So yeah... Other than running from the two cops behind me (which was not unusual), sliding around a corner into a full fledged roadblock with all the guns pointed right at me... A HELLuva lot more than that other feller went through. I was happy I kept my mud.
I know y'all wore gypsy leather, and I know where you are coming from. But rednecks known for kicking up their heels get about the same treatment you did. But I also know how to de-escalate. I know that cop is worried about his ass, and getting home to mamma, so I do what I can to let him know I ain't gonna buck, and I ain't a threat.
A slow roll and non-compliance ain't that.
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I will add that if you are really concerned about a safe place to pull over call 911 and tell them there's a cop behind you and that you are seeking a safer place to pull over along with providing them with your name. That would go a long way towards calming things down.
Probably true... But a slow roll for a mile and a half without so much as a waive out the window to let em know you seen em... That ain't how it's done. I think that feller was baiting em.
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Probably true... But a slow roll for a mile and a half without so much as a waive out the window to let em know you seen em... That ain't how it's done. I think that feller was baiting em.
It takes about 3 minutes to travel a mile & a half at 35 MPH. Down an unlit road towards a lighted gas stop? I don't think the drivers motives were too difficult to grasp. I'd want to get a good look at the car and the guys pulling me over as well. Not much time for a phone call. Dunno if I'd think to wave at em in the meantime either.
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The police departments do tend to try to recruit former combat arms soldiers to become law enforcement. Surprisingly they don't (for the most part) like to recruit former Military Police to become a LEO.
They do that because they know that most of your 11 Bravo's (Infantry) are familiar with a host of weapons...they are disciplined and are cool under pressure and fire. Especially so since 9/11.
I tried getting on with the city PD as well as the county sheriff here in their Public Information Office's....but they are not hiring at this point. I'd even be willing to haul my old ass through the police academy if it meant getting the job I wanted.
@txradioguy
I briefly considered becoming a cop right after getting out of the army,but after taking a hard look at myself,I decided I was just not capable of doing the job like it needed to be done.
For example,I am fairly certain the bosses would frown on my bringing a child rapist to lockup by tying him to the rear bumper and dragging him to the station,and I wouldn't have been able to swear to anyone that I wouldn't do that.
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Probably true... But a slow roll for a mile and a half without so much as a waive out the window to let em know you seen em... That ain't how it's done. I think that feller was baiting em.
@roamer_1
Well,not speeding up and trying to get away should have been a good first tip the guy wasn't going to run.
Probably would have been a good idea for him to have turned on his 4-way flashers,too,although the idea about calling 9-11 and telling the dispatcher what you were doing just can't be beat.
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It takes about 3 minutes to travel a mile & a half at 35 MPH. Down an unlit road towards a lighted gas stop? I don't think the drivers motives were too difficult to grasp. I'd want to get a good look at the car and the guys pulling me over as well. Not much time for a phone call. Dunno if I'd think to wave at em in the meantime either.
Look... That's what folks do when they're dumping their junk. Go ask a cop. He'll tell ya.
So from the cops' point of view that's a good reason to be suspicious. So they are going to start the deal with an advantage. I don't blame them for that at all.
And then noncompliance - leaving one hand in the window... Not exiting the car - All of that is just baiting them into escalation. and they OUGHT TO escalate. If I did that crap with my jacket (well, at least back in the day) I would have got it a hundred times worse than that. That guy did every damn thing he could not to comply.
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Look... That's what folks do when they're dumping their junk. Go ask a cop. He'll tell ya.
So from the cops' point of view that's a good reason to be suspicious. So they are going to start the deal with an advantage. I don't blame them for that at all.
And then noncompliance - leaving one hand in the window... Not exiting the car - All of that is just baiting them into escalation. and they OUGHT TO escalate. If I did that crap with my jacket (well, at least back in the day) I would have got it a hundred times worse than that. That guy did every damn thing he could not to comply.
I've said all I care to about this. Cops are in a tough situation these days, I'll grant you. It's a shame they now feel the need to resort to the threat of lethal force, rightly or wrongly, in this allegedly free society, so quickly.
Until recently it wasn't this way.
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@roamer_1
Well,not speeding up and trying to get away should have been a good first tip the guy wasn't going to run.
@sneakypete
I don't think that is true. Slow roll turns into high speed chase too. You have to get it out of your head that this guy is a stand up guy - They don't know that. You think about YOU walking up on a blind car with the guy acting froggy.
Probably would have been a good idea for him to have turned on his 4-way flashers,too,although the idea about calling 9-11 and telling the dispatcher what you were doing just can't be beat.
That's all right. I guess I never had that problem. I ain't afraid of the dark. It's my advantage. So all I would have been looking for is somewhere to pull off safely... A turnout or something.
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I've said all I care to about this. Cops are in a tough situation these days, I'll grant you. It's a shame they now feel the need to resort to the threat of lethal force, rightly or wrongly, in this allegedly free society, so quickly.
Until recently it wasn't this way.
@skeeter
I couldn't agree more. The typical citizen,and I include ME in that mix,has no interest in harming cops or causing them any trouble whatsoever.
What we DO want though,it to be treated with the same respect they demand,and get,from us.
They can always get "ugly" if the situation demands,but it is awful damn hard to back up and return to "civil" if you made a mistake in judgement. It's just the nature of things.
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@sneakypete
I don't think that is true. Slow roll turns into high speed chase too. You have to get it out of your head that this guy is a stand up guy - They don't know that. You think about YOU walking up on a blind car with the guy acting froggy.
That's all right. I guess I never had that problem. I ain't afraid of the dark. It's my advantage. So all I would have been looking for is somewhere to pull off safely... A turnout or something.
I'm not a cop. So I don't have to think about doing that.
But a cop...walking up to a vehicle he's pulled over for a minor infraction....that's his JOB DESCRIPTION as a revenue collector for the state, county or city that employs him.
And the officer had his gun pulled out as soon as he had two feet on the pavement.
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I'm not a cop. So I don't have to think about doing that.
Yeah, but HE does.
But a cop...walking up to a vehicle he's pulled over for a minor infraction....that's his JOB DESCRIPTION as a revenue collector for the state, county or city that employs him.
And the officer had his gun pulled out as soon as he had two feet on the pavement.
Really?? So you think he has to walk up to the window just like that, not knowing if it is a good citizen or a banger or crack zombie inside?
That seems completely unrealistic to me.
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@skeeter
I couldn't agree more. The typical citizen,and I include ME in that mix,has no interest in harming cops or causing them any trouble whatsoever.
What we DO want though,it to be treated with the same respect they demand,and get,from us.
Exactly. I get the behavior of the police is a reaction to increased barbarity of the criminal element but we need to be very careful allowing increased callous and brutal behavior by law enforcement towards the public in general. That is/will lead to diminishing the bond of trust between them and us. Once thats gone its all over.
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I'm not a cop. So I don't have to think about doing that.
But a cop...walking up to a vehicle he's pulled over for a minor infraction....that's his JOB DESCRIPTION as a revenue collector for the state, county or city that employs him.
And the officer had his gun pulled out as soon as he had two feet on the pavement.
Even then he could've holstered his weapon and re-assumed a less confrontational attitude once he realized the man was no threat. Instead he continued to escalate. & lost his job because of it.
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Exactly. I get the behavior of the police is a reaction to increased barbarity of the criminal element but we need to be very careful allowing increased callous and brutal behavior by law enforcement towards the public in general. That is/will lead to diminishing the bond of trust between them and us. Once thats gone its all over.
This incident ISN'T that. Back in my day the cop would have done likewise. Even back then, noncompliance brought escalation.
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This incident ISN'T that. Back in my day the cop would have done likewise. Even back then, noncompliance brought escalation.
I'm no youngster either and I do not recall the police going straight to 'do what I say or I'll shoot' nearly as often as they do now.
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Even then he could've holstered his weapon and re-assumed a less confrontational attitude once he realized the man was no threat. Instead he continued to escalate.
Actually the cop de-escalated once he got to the window and could see. The pistol went away, and out came the bear juice.
That is de-escalation. compliance is still going to have to happen. Or force. You choose.
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I'm no youngster either and I do not recall the police going straight to 'do what I say or I'll shoot' nearly as often as they do now.
Yeah... I think they did... But maybe that was because I was on the other side of the tracks...
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Yeah, but HE does.
Really?? So you think he has to walk up to the window just like that, not knowing if it is a good citizen or a banger or crack zombie inside?
That seems completely unrealistic to me.
@roamer_1
Yes,"just like that". If he or she can't do the job right,they should be looking for other work.
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Actually the cop de-escalated once he got to the window and could see. The pistol went away, and out came the bear juice.
That is de-escalation. compliance is still going to have to happen. Or force. You choose.
After that brand of de-escalation not even the police union could save his job.
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Exactly. I get the behavior of the police is a reaction to increased barbarity of the criminal element but we need to be very careful allowing increased callous and brutal behavior by law enforcement towards the public in general.
How the heck does that happen when the cop don't know what he is walking into?
I dunno why folks are so upset by that.. I have been amicable, and told the cop I was packing - Now, considering what I was, it was not unheard of for a cop to lay me up on the truck and disarm me himself, or stand off with his gun ready while I disarmed myself. and that was 80s/90s... And it didn't offend me even then. I knew he had to be comfortable and the sooner that happened, the better for me.
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Look... That's what folks do when they're dumping their junk. Go ask a cop. He'll tell ya.
So from the cops' point of view that's a good reason to be suspicious. So they are going to start the deal with an advantage. I don't blame them for that at all.
And then noncompliance - leaving one hand in the window... Not exiting the car - All of that is just baiting them into escalation. and they OUGHT TO escalate. If I did that crap with my jacket (well, at least back in the day) I would have got it a hundred times worse than that. That guy did every damn thing he could not to comply.
CORRECT. And OFFICER Tatum saw that too. This young man needs to be thrown out of the army. He is a bully.
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After that brand of de-escalation not even the police union could save his job.
Wanna bet?
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@roamer_1
Yes,"just like that". If he or she can't do the job right,they should be looking for other work.
@sneakypete
No, Not like that. That's how you wind up shot.
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CORRECT. And OFFICER Tatum saw that too. This young man needs to be thrown out of the army. He is a bully.
Sure looked to me like he was playin it.
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Yeah, but HE does.
Really?? So you think he has to walk up to the window just like that, not knowing if it is a good citizen or a banger or crack zombie inside?
That seems completely unrealistic to me.
PRIOR Officer, TATUM...explains the whole thing. BOTH SIDES. Most of the men are NOT WATCHING THIS VIDEO. The two police NO NOT KNOW....who is behind the wheel. The driver is acting strangely. Most police get shot, by these strange behaviors. I support your posts on this Roamer. Everyone is talking in HINDSIGHT. HIGH RISK STOP.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgBMnJyOiT0&t=3s
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Sure looked to me like he was playin it.
Army did have gun on seat, or on him. Army guy set up his camera FIRST. Army guy is wanting some kind of confrontation. Acts, obtuse. 'What is going on'? IDIOT. Won't comply, then is 'hard of hearing'. azzhole.
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PRIOR Officer, TATUM...explains the whole thing. BOTH SIDES. Most of the men are NOT WATCHING THIS VIDEO. The two police NO NOT KNOW....who is behind the wheel. The driver is acting strangely. Most police get shot, by these strange behaviors. I support your posts on this Roamer. Everyone is talking in HINDSIGHT. HIGH RISK STOP.
I think that's right. I think the slow roll and the tinted windows turned it into a high risk situation. And his non-compliance escalated it from there... And I don't blame them at all.
Had he but complied, the whole show would have been over.
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Army did have gun on seat, or on him. Army guy set up his camera FIRST. Army guy is wanting some kind of confrontation. Acts, obtuse. 'What is going on'? IDIOT. Won't comply, then is 'hard of hearing'. azzhole.
yeah... Looks to me like he is looking for a viral vid and a law suit payoff.
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I think that's right. I think the slow roll and the tinted windows turned it into a high risk situation. And his non-compliance escalated it from there... And I don't blame them at all.
Had he but complied, the whole show would have been over.
I agree. If you watch, Army guy actually slaps away the officers hand! I say an assault. THE NERVE. Bending over backwards to deal with this guy.
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Look... That's what folks do when they're dumping their junk. Go ask a cop. He'll tell ya.
So from the cops' point of view that's a good reason to be suspicious. So they are going to start the deal with an advantage. I don't blame them for that at all.
And then noncompliance - leaving one hand in the window... Not exiting the car - All of that is just baiting them into escalation. and they OUGHT TO escalate. If I did that crap with my jacket (well, at least back in the day) I would have got it a hundred times worse than that. That guy did every damn thing he could not to comply.
My point earlier, is that he would have to bring one hand inside to unlock the door.
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My point earlier, is that he would have to bring one hand inside to unlock the door.
but that is not what he was doing... He was purposefully NOT complying.
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but that is not what he was doing... He was purposefully NOT complying.
On review, I agree. Stupid move, really.
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@Sighlass
Ok,to start with,the commentator is full of crap from the very beginning. It is both common AND legal for temporary tags from a car dealership to be made from paper and stuck inside the rear window of cars and trucks. I was pulled in Denver in the late 70's by two DPD cops for "failure to display a license tag",and when it was spotted laying on the rear seat because the glue was crappy and the wind coming through the windows had blown it off.
What you have is Officer Cartman going all "Macho Man" for NOTHING MORE SERIOUS THAN A TECHNICAL VIOLATION.
For THIS,he pulls his gun,points it at a man doing nothing more than driving down the road and bothering no one,and starts screaming threats and orders at him.
The Lt knew he had done nothing wrong,so he saw no reason to cower.
It was at this point I stopped watching because it had already been established that the commentator either doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground,or he is knowingly lying.
Asking you AGAIN. Where exactly was the tag. He is in a well lit p[arking lot and you can't see it.
What are the exact n8umbers on the tag. This is the second time I am asking you. Brandon Tatum is a former officer. He is currently working with Candace Owens on the Blexit movement. He does know what he is talking about.
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Asking you AGAIN. Where exactly was the tag.
@verga
According to the report,the tag was glued to the rear window,which was tinted so heavily it was hard to see.
The driver didn't put it there,the dealership that sold it put it there.
There is no other place TO put it,since it has glue on it's face and is designed to be stuck in rear windows.
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Actually the cop de-escalated once he got to the window and could see. The pistol went away, and out came the bear juice.
That is de-escalation. compliance is still going to have to happen. Or force. You choose.
He had no justification for pulling his weapon in the first place, and thus no reason to simply switch to pepper spray.
De-escalation would have involved in putting the weapons away and simply explaining the reason for the stop, like a good police officer would have done.
He was not a good police officer.
It's not like he didn't see the tag in the back window. His claims that he couldn't see that was a lie. I was pulled over by a cop who passed me going the other way, at a relative speed of over 90 mph, because the inspection sticker in my window was expired.....and he saw that at night, and he did not walk to the front of the vehicle to check it a second time...he just saw it the first time. That was a good cop doing a good stop. Cost me 15 bucks, that.
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Yeah, but HE does.
Really?? So you think he has to walk up to the window just like that, not knowing if it is a good citizen or a banger or crack zombie inside?
That seems completely unrealistic to me.
Yeah, just like that.
It's what real cops do, every day.
That's his job.
If he can't do his job, he needed to learn to code and forego the goonion benefits.
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He had no justification for pulling his weapon in the first place, and thus no reason to simply switch to pepper spray.
De-escalation would have involved in putting the weapons away and simply explaining the reason for the stop, like a good police officer would have done.
He was not a good police officer.
It's not like he didn't see the tag in the back window. His claims that he couldn't see that was a lie. I was pulled over by a cop who passed me going the other way, at a relative speed of over 90 mph, because the inspection sticker in my window was expired.....and he saw that at night, and he did not walk to the front of the vehicle to check it a second time...he just saw it the first time. That was a good cop doing a good stop. Cost me 15 bucks, that.
That is complete bullshit. The cops had no idea what they were dealing with once he refused to comply with lawful orders to pull over. You are naïve to the extreme.
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That is complete bullshit. The cops had no idea what they were dealing with once he refused to comply with lawful orders to pull over. You are naïve to the extreme.
@DB it's not naivety on his part. There's a very deep seated hatred of law enforcement period in what he's been typing about this incident despite evidence to the contrary of what he's claiming.
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@verga
According to the report,the tag was glued to the rear window,which was tinted so heavily it was hard to see.
The driver didn't put it there,the dealership that sold it put it there.
There is no other place TO put it,since it has glue on it's face and is designed to be stuck in rear windows.
So in other words the officers were totally justified in pulling him over. If you would have said that right off ....
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So in other words the officers were totally justified in pulling him over. If you would have said that right off ....
@verga
I WOULD have said that,but I'm not a fool.
PLEASE spain to simple old me HOW it was the driver's fault the state switched to stick on temporary license tags for rear window use,and the selling dealer placed the temporary license sticker on the rear window,as required by state law.
Once you are done splain-in THAT,explain to me WHY the TRAFFIC COP didn't know this was state law,and that it was common for them to fall off or be hard to see due to factory tinted glass.
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but that is not what he was doing... He was purposefully NOT complying.
How can people, NOT SEE THAT? *****rollingeyes*****
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That is complete bullshit. The cops had no idea what they were dealing with once he refused to comply with lawful orders to pull over. You are naïve to the extreme.
888high58888 AND army guy did have a weapon. Just not sure if he should use it or not. He made SURE his camera angle was all set up correctly..first. Then had major attitude. Slaps officers hand away!!!
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"Army officer does not comply, slaps police officers hand, in LEGAL stop". I hope the army releases him from service.
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@verga
I WOULD have said that,but I'm not a fool.
PLEASE spain to simple old me HOW it was the driver's fault the state switched to stick on temporary license tags for rear window use,and the selling dealer placed the temporary license sticker on the rear window,as required by state law.
Once you are done splain-in THAT,explain to me WHY the TRAFFIC COP didn't know this was state law,and that it was common for them to fall off or be hard to see due to factory tinted glass.
It isn't the job of the police to determine who's fault it is when something you are responsible for is in violation of the law. That's what courts are for.
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He had no justification for pulling his weapon in the first place, and thus no reason to simply switch to pepper spray.
It really is an amazement to me what city folks see as justification. If something seems off... THAT is justification.
De-escalation would have involved in putting the weapons away and simply explaining the reason for the stop, like a good police officer would have done.
He was not a good police officer.
Really. An non-compliant - PURPOSEFULLY non-compliant person - Still offering non-compliance, and you say put the weapons away? you don't know what's in the pocket of the door - you can't see that... or what might be on the floorboard, or hell, who might still be in the back damn seat, crouched down on the floorboards!
No, he had every right to stay armed. I would not have de-escalated, myself. I thought that to be too much trust.
It's not like he didn't see the tag in the back window. His claims that he couldn't see that was a lie.
LOL! How can you say that? If it is dark tinted, you literally can't see it. - MAYBE from 3-5 ft away in decent light, you might see it's outline... The very same thing happened to me, and in fact, you could not but barely see that tag, even with the light coming from behind it.
And it does not matter if he could somewhat see it anyway - It is to be CLEARLY VISIBLE.
I was pulled over by a cop who passed me going the other way, at a relative speed of over 90 mph, because the inspection sticker in my window was expired.....and he saw that at night, and he did not walk to the front of the vehicle to check it a second time...he just saw it the first time. That was a good cop doing a good stop. Cost me 15 bucks, that.
LOL! Plate ID software IDs the plate and they know before they even turn around who you are, wants and warrants against those plates, whether your tags are up to date, and whether you are insured. Nobody is seeing a tag at 90 mph, in the dark of night.
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Yeah, just like that.
It's what real cops do, every day.
That's his job.
If he can't do his job, he needed to learn to code and forego the goonion benefits.
ROTFLMAO!! Quite literally: NO they don't! Your Barney Fife dreams are complete bullcrap. If somebody is being froggy, or if they have good reason to suspect ANYTHING, they proceed with great caution, and if they see it a high risk, the guns come out and they are waiting on backup before any approach.
You're freakin dreaming.
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How the heck does that happen when the cop don't know what he is walking into?
The cops NEVER know what they're walking up to. Makes for high stress and anxiety, too bad for them. If they don't like their job, find another.
I dunno why folks are so upset by that.
It's called the Presumption of Innocence.
It's also called We Don't Live In A Police State.
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ROTFLMAO!! Quite literally: NO they don't! Your Barney Fife dreams are complete bullcrap. If somebody is being froggy, or if they have good reason to suspect ANYTHING, they proceed with great caution, and if they see it a high risk, the guns come out and they are waiting on backup before any approach.
You're freakin dreaming.
Barney Fife was the cop that exited the patrol car with his pistol drawn and screaming, for no apparent reason.
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The cops NEVER know what they're walking up to. Makes for high stress and anxiety, too bad for them. If they don't like their job, find another.
It's called the Presumption of Innocence.
HAHAHAHA! You don't know what you're talking about.
COURTS operate under the presumption of innocence.
ENFORCEMENT operates under the presumption of guilt - And always has. They don't stop you unless they have a reason to - That reason presumes guilt by its very nature. It's the cops' job to make you guilty, within the strictures and protocols in which they operate. He is there to expose people breaking the law. He has no presumption of your innocence.
It's also called We Don't Live In A Police State.
That is not practicably extended to LEOs.
You really have not dealt with this much, have you?
An encounter with a LEO is about your guilt not your innocence - There is no presumption. All that is temporarily suspended under the authority of Law. All that matters is that you comply and allow the officer to inquire and investigate. He is looking for your guilt. That is his job.
They have the right to lawfully detain you on suspicion. And you WILL comply. If you will not, they have the right to force you.
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Time for this thread to have some chill time in the fridge.
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@verga
I WOULD have said that,but I'm not a fool.
PLEASE spain to simple old me HOW it was the driver's fault the state switched to stick on temporary license tags for rear window use,and the selling dealer placed the temporary license sticker on the rear window,as required by state law.
Once you are done splain-in THAT,explain to me WHY the TRAFFIC COP didn't know this was state law,and that it was common for them to fall off or be hard to see due to factory tinted glass.
Peet he could not SEE the F%^KING plates. He had every right to believe that it was a STOLEN vehicle. Slow rolling is something criminals do to hide or dispose of illegal substances. I and seve4ral others asked you to watch the ENTIRE video. You watched a snippet and jumped to a WRONG conclusion. The Lt. was being a complete douchebag and is damn lucky he walked away from the encounter. Frankly you are sounding and acting like Sled dog and Jazzhead, and that is not a compliment.
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Peet he could not SEE the F%^KING plates.
@verga
There WERE NO FREAKING PLATES TO BE SEEN! It was a new vehicle with the dealer-installed "decal plate" in the rear window.
He had every right to believe that it was a STOLEN vehicle.
Why? You would THINK an experienced traffic officer would know about paper license plates stuck in rear windows.
Slow rolling is something criminals do to hide or dispose of illegal substances.
It is also something honest citizens do in order to be able to drive to a safe area to stop without scaring the officer with the flashing lights that he is not trying to get away.
I and seve4ral others asked you to watch the ENTIRE video. You watched a snippet and jumped to a WRONG conclusion. The Lt. was being a complete douchebag and is damn lucky he walked away from the encounter. Frankly you are sounding and acting like Sled dog and Jazzhead, and that is not a compliment.
Not MY fault you are a clueless fool.
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Not MY fault you are a clueless fool.
Back atcha
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Shutting the thread down again.