The Briefing Room

General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: SirLinksALot on November 13, 2017, 09:52:04 pm

Title: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: SirLinksALot on November 13, 2017, 09:52:04 pm
SOURCE: HEAVY.COM

URL: http://heavy.com/news/2017/11/beverly-young-nelson-roy-moore-accuser-allred/ (http://heavy.com/news/2017/11/beverly-young-nelson-roy-moore-accuser-allred/)

By Chris Bucher



Less than one month until his Senate special election in Alabama, Republican candidate Roy Moore is facing numerous allegations of sexual misconduct with underage women.

Five women have now come forward with the sexual harassment and assault allegations against Moore, claiming they took place decades ago when he worked in the Etowah County District Attorney’s Office.

While four of the accusers came forward with their allegations against Moore in a story by The Washington Post, the fifth, Beverly Young Nelson, told her story during a press conference alongside her lawyer, Gloria Allred, on Monday.

Nelson, 56, said she was 16-years old and working as a waitress at a restaurant in Alabama when Moore sexually assaulted her. She described him as being a regular at the restaurant and very flirtatious. On one occasion, she said Moore offered to give her a ride home after a shift. She claims that instead of driving toward her house, though, Moore drove to the back of the restaurant and proceeded to sexually assault her.

Moore’s on the ballot for the special election to replace former Senator Jeff Sessions on December 12. He defeated Luther Strange, who served in the seat after Sessions was appointed attorney general, in a primary election. Moore is going against against Democrat Doug Jones in the general election.

Here’s what you need to know about Nelson’s accusations against Moore:

1. Nelson Claims Moore Wrote She Was a ‘Beautiful Girl in Her Yearbook & Was Very Flirtatious

Nelson told her story at the press conference in Madison, New York on November 13. She opened by describing her background, saying she was born in Santa Maria, California before moving to Alabama with her family when she was young.

As a teenager, she started working as a waitress after school at the Old Hickory House, a restaurant in Gadsden that Moore frequented, she said. She worked there when she was 15-16 years old and said she’d often work until 7-10 p.m. Moore would come into the restaurant “nearly every day,” sitting in the same seat and oftentimes staying until the restaurant closed.

Nelson burst into tears as she described how Moore complimented her appearance, saying he was very flirtatious with her. On occasion, she said Moore would touch her long, red hair.

“I did know that he was an important person, and I always treated him with respect,” Nelson said. “When he was at the restaurant, he would speak to me and would sometimes pull the ends of my long hair as I walked by him.”

Nelson said she was accustomed to men flirting with her because she was “well developed and competed in beauty pageants.” She claims that she never responded to Moore’s flirtatious behavior because she had a boyfriend at the time and wasn’t interested in having a relationship “with a man who’s twice my age.”

One time, she said that she brought her high school yearbook to the restaurant. Moore saw it and asked her if he could sign it.

“I felt flattered, and I said yes,” she said.

Nelson claims that Moore wrote in a note that she was a “beautiful girl” and signed it: “Love, Roy Moore, D.A.” Nelson and Allred displayed the yearbook at the press conference.

(EXCERPT) CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE REST...
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: SirLinksALot on November 13, 2017, 09:53:50 pm
MORE.... CLICK ABOVE LINK FOR THE DETAILS

2. Nelson Claims Moore Groped Her in His Vehicle & Forced Her Head Down on His Crotch

3. Nelson Worked as an Interior Designer & Said She Is a Trump Supporter

4 Other Women Came Forward With Sexual Misconduct Allegations Against Moore

5. Moore Has Threatened Lawsuit & Claims the Women Were Paid to Come Forward
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: SirLinksALot on November 13, 2017, 09:54:33 pm
REGARDING HER CLAIM THAT SHE IS A TRUMP SUPPORTER....

(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/untitled17.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=782)

According to the Alabama Secretary of State, being an “inactive voter” means that they didn’t respond to a mailing requesting to update their information and are still eligible to vote as a normal voter.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: SirLinksALot on November 13, 2017, 09:56:42 pm
Since the allegations came to light, Moore denied them, saying they were “fake news” and a “desperate attack” by Democrats trying to ruin his campaign ahead of the December 12 special Senate election.

“These allegations are completely false and are a desperate political attack by the National Democrat Party and the Washington Post on this campaign,” he said in a statement. “If any of these allegations were true, they would have been made public long before now.”

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DONy9C8VwAAi9Yq.jpg)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 13, 2017, 10:04:36 pm
Two accusers claiming sexual misconduct become harder to refute.   This is not good,   but we shall have to keep an eye out for anything else that may fall out of the blue. 


I still wouldn't give the seat to a baby murdering Democrat.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: libertybele on November 13, 2017, 10:15:09 pm
I read the entire article ... one thing still sticks in my mind .. why did she decide to come forward now after all this time that he's been running for political office?  Certainly IF her story was true you would think she would have made his actions known long ago ... why now??  I take into consideration when it first happened she was probably scared, ashamed, and didn't know what to do, but he's run for various different seats and she's had many opportunities.  Why now?  That is suspect.  She claims that she told her family; I would think that they also have had many opportunities before now to come forward. Perhaps she's finally found the courage, or she's been paid.  There's no evidence so far either way.  After all this time ... the only evidence that she has is her story and that he signed her yearbook.  That doesn't make him a perp, nor does him visiting where she worked every day make him a perp ... lots of people frequent their favorite restaurant on a regular basis. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 13, 2017, 10:16:00 pm
I still wouldn't give the seat to a baby murdering Democrat.

Then you should join the many Republicans and conservatives who are urging Moore to step down now while there is still time to call for postponement of the special election.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: libertybele on November 13, 2017, 10:16:53 pm
Two accusers claiming sexual misconduct become harder to refute.   This is not good,   but we shall have to keep an eye out for anything else that may fall out of the blue. 


I still wouldn't give the seat to a baby murdering Democrat.

Regardless of guilt or innocence the GOPe has already determined that he is guilty and his career is over...unless there becomes overwhelming evidence that these women lied.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 13, 2017, 10:21:51 pm
Then you should join the many Republicans and conservatives who are urging Moore to step down now while there is still time to call for postponement of the special election.   

Postponement based on what? Rumors and innuendo? There is no postponing this election. Roy Moore and the Rat are going to be on the ballot in Dec and that's that. There is no putting Jeff Sessions back in, there is no replacing Moore with Luther Strange. There is no kicking Moore out of the Senate should he win. This is what it is. There are no legitimate legal work arounds from Moore and the Rat being elected in the state.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 13, 2017, 10:24:22 pm
Postponement based on what? Rumors and innuendo? There is no postponing this election. Roy Moore and the Rat are going to be on the ballot in Dec and that's that. There is no putting Jeff Sessions back in, there is no replacing Moore with Luther Strange. There is no kicking Moore out of the Senate should he win. This is what it is. There are no legitimate legal work arounds from Moore and the Rat being elected in the state.

This is a special election; why couldn't it be postponed if the majority party suddenly lacks a candidate? 

If Moore's on the ballot then Doug Jones wins.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 13, 2017, 10:29:19 pm
This is a special election; why couldn't it be postponed if the majority party suddenly lacks a candidate?

Typical of tyrant advocates such as yourself: redo the election and reset the dates until the creature you want as ruler is "chosen".

If Moore's on the ballot then Doug Jones wins.

Based on your posting history - it's not like you re going to shed any tears over losing that seat. 

Rather, applause because you hate Christians as much as you do.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 13, 2017, 10:30:19 pm
This is a special election; why couldn't it be postponed if the majority party suddenly lacks a candidate? 

If Moore's on the ballot then Doug Jones wins.

Because elections are expensive and take a lot of work to put on. Unless there is a natural disaster or act of God, there is no reason to move the date just because some establishment stooges are upset with the voters will in a Primary. As for the state, it appears that the people who could pull some illegal bullshit to change the election date are all supporters of Moore, so I wouldn't hold your breath there either.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 13, 2017, 11:06:52 pm
Two accusers claiming sexual misconduct become harder to refute.   This is not good,   but we shall have to keep an eye out for anything else that may fall out of the blue. 


I still wouldn't give the seat to a baby murdering Democrat.

@DiogenesLamp

Well, I agree with that.  But I wouldn't want either one of them in there---a baby murderer or someone who gropes children.  And if I were an Alabaman, I wouldn't put my soul on the line and cast a vote for either of them.  This is when people of faith stand back and realize God has it all in His control.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: libertybele on November 13, 2017, 11:08:05 pm
Well...according to "Wikipedia" approximately 30 women have come forward against him.  That is pretty overwhelming.  Though noted, "Wikipedia" is stating that a better source is needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 13, 2017, 11:16:16 pm
Then you should join the many Republicans and conservatives who are urging Moore to step down now while there is still time to call for postponement of the special election.   


Then the seat would default to the baby murdering Democrat.    I think in terms of an ethical dilemma,  I would err in favor of the babies to not get murdered.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 13, 2017, 11:17:30 pm
Regardless of guilt or innocence the GOPe has already determined that he is guilty and his career is over...unless there becomes overwhelming evidence that these women lied.


Yes,  the swamp is going all out to get him.    Both the Democrats and the Republicans are trying everything of which they can think to stop him from getting into the Senate. 


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 13, 2017, 11:21:50 pm
Did people read this article in the editorial section:
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,290845.0.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/11/the_real_scandal_in_the_alabama_senate_race.html

@aligncare pretty much said it right, do what is best for the country. I don't see doing nothing as best for the country.  Also, we might have any number of 3rd party options.

Also, I don't trust Gloria Allread.

As the American Thinker article says, I would hold my nose and vote for the Republican.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 13, 2017, 11:28:39 pm
@DiogenesLamp

Well, I agree with that.  But I wouldn't want either one of them in there---a baby murderer or someone who gropes children.  And if I were an Alabaman, I wouldn't put my soul on the line and cast a vote for either of them.  This is when people of faith stand back and realize God has it all in His control.



If we are leaving it to God,  I believe he has this thing called "redemption."    Can a man be redeemed for something he did 40 years ago by living an exemplary life ever since?   


If Moore did touch those girls/women,   they should have put it behind them already.   



Once again,  we are down to a binary choice.   There is no "none of the above"  option on the ballot.   It will be Moore,  or it will be Jones. 

Moore may or may not have touched some girls inappropriately 40 years ago.   Jones advocates partial birth abortion right now.   (And transgenders using girls bathrooms,  and all the usual Democrat insanity.)   


People would have us be "penny wise and pound foolish."   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 13, 2017, 11:33:06 pm
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/16711939_10208398633107749_8885227074927540846_n-e1510604719467.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all)
"Someone tried to play with my kitty."
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 13, 2017, 11:41:44 pm


If we are leaving it to God,  I believe he has this thing called "redemption."    Can a man be redeemed for something he did 40 years ago by living an exemplary life ever since?   

Once again,  we are down to a binary choice.   There is no "none of the above"  option on the ballot.   It will be Moore,  or it will be Jones. 

Moore may or may not have touched some girls inappropriately 40 years ago.   Jones advocates partial birth abortion right now.   (And transgenders using girls bathrooms,  and all the usual Democrat insanity.)   


People would have us be "penny wise and pound foolish."   

@DiogenesLamp

Nah, no binary choice.  There are some things we just know we shouldn't be a part of.  Like I said, He has it. 

You know as well as I do that redemption requires repentance. 



Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 13, 2017, 11:42:07 pm
(https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/16711939_10208398633107749_8885227074927540846_n-e1510604719467.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&strip=all)
"Someone tried to play with my kitty."

@Frank Cannon

That's a huge...

....cat.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DCPatriot on November 13, 2017, 11:44:44 pm
Well, gee....

What man, or woman, for that matter, hasn't at least once in their life, grabbed somebody's head.... :bolt:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 13, 2017, 11:44:53 pm
@DiogenesLamp

Nah, no binary choice.  There are some things we just know we shouldn't be a part of.  Like I said, He has it. 



And how is it not a binary choice?    Do you think someone other than Moore or Jones is going to win? 


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 13, 2017, 11:51:08 pm
There is a good chance a write-in candidate will come up... and someone then, won't have to make the choice of the current two.

Luther Strange has not done well on DACA; but that is about the only thing. He is definitely pro-life...
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 13, 2017, 11:53:20 pm

If Moore's on the ballot then Doug Jones wins.

Nope.
And the only write in that might stand a chance is Mo... with Moore's blessing.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 13, 2017, 11:54:22 pm
There is a good chance a write-in candidate will come up... and someone then, won't have to make the choice of the current two.

Luther Strange has not done well on DACA; but that is about the only thing. He is definitely pro-life...


The Democrats will vote Jones,   and if Republicans split the ticket,  it's going to be Jones.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 13, 2017, 11:56:51 pm

The Democrats will vote Jones,   and if Republicans split the ticket,  it's going to be Jones.

But as has been pointed out, Murkowski won as a write-in in Alaska.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/us/politics/18alaska.html

So, I'm not a fan of hers but this has already been discussed.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 14, 2017, 12:02:23 am
   What's all the fuss about didn't they put 'Groping' in the Party Platform last year.

(https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Trump_first_debate_ap_img.jpg)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2017, 12:09:15 am
   What's all the fuss about didn't they put 'Groping' in the Party Platform last year.

(https://www.thenation.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Trump_first_debate_ap_img.jpg)

Can you prove it? Your photo is to the Nation, left wing source.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 12:09:40 am
But as has been pointed out, Murkowski won as a write-in in Alaska.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/us/politics/18alaska.html

So, I'm not a fan of hers but this has already been discussed.


She was a sitting Senator with name recognition.   I also think it was a corrupt deal.   



Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 12:11:11 am
Can you prove it? Your photo is to the Nation, left wing source.


Good catch.   Why would someone on our side be reading "the nation"   and linking to images from there?   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2017, 12:11:47 am

She was a sitting Senator with name recognition.   I also think it was a corrupt deal.

And Alabama is probably a deeper red than Alaska, a more conservative state. There might be a number of variables in play.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 12:19:13 am

She was a sitting Senator with name recognition.   I also think it was a corrupt deal.

With her daddy's huge political machine behind her.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 14, 2017, 12:29:30 am
Can you prove it? Your photo is to the Nation, left wing source.

     @TomSea @DiogenesLamp

    It's finally out, my appreciation for certain Trump MUG SHOTS on the net make me a dem/russian troll here, thanks for 'outing me'. 

 

   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 12:35:40 am
     @TomSea @DiogenesLamp

    It's finally out, my appreciation for certain Trump MUG SHOTS on the net make me a dem/russian troll here, thanks for 'outing me'. 

 


When you are assisting the enemy in disseminating their propaganda,  how are you benefiting your side? 


They doubtlessly chose that photo for the same reason you like it.   It apparently says something derogatory towards Trump if you have the right frame of mind to demean him. 


In my view,  it just makes him look like a New Yorker. 



Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Suppressed on November 14, 2017, 12:40:55 am

Good catch.   Why would someone on our side be reading "the nation"   and linking to images from there?
@DiogenesLamp

I wonder what "your side" means.  Are you saying "The Side of Willful Ignorance"...the side that puts its head in the sand rather than read various sources to get a broad, informed view?

That stands in sharp contrast to the conservative side, which is built on information, not ad hominem.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 14, 2017, 12:42:09 am
   I was way out of line there fellas, here's the official twitter photo


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C207o_AXcAM_Tyj.jpg)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: catfish1957 on November 14, 2017, 12:46:14 am
But as has been pointed out, Murkowski won as a write-in in Alaska.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/18/us/politics/18alaska.html

So, I'm not a fan of hers but this has already been discussed.

Logistics are a lot easier for a write in campaign in a state of 250,000 voters versus 2,000,000.

I don't think it can be done in AL, esp. in the time frame they're up against..
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: catfish1957 on November 14, 2017, 12:47:01 am
   I was way out of line there fellas, here's the official twitter photo


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C207o_AXcAM_Tyj.jpg)

Sneerer in Chief....lol
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 12:50:03 am
     @TomSea @DiogenesLamp

    It's finally out, my appreciation for certain Trump MUG SHOTS on the net make me a dem/russian troll here, thanks for 'outing me'. 

 

(https://media1.giphy.com/media/26hituqs0NWhJAOM8/giphy.gif)

@corbe

Don't worry about it, a curious mind and reading varied sources doesn't make you a liberal.  I would really like to see our side get over the notion that anything besides "approved" reading, etc makes you suspect.  It's very TOSlike.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2017, 12:52:23 am
@DiogenesLamp

I wonder what "your side" means.  Are you saying "The Side of Willful Ignorance"...the side that puts its head in the sand rather than read various sources to get a broad, informed view?

That stands in sharp contrast to the conservative side, which is built on information, not ad hominem.

Seeing how you are out of the gate to defend Joe Biden and seem to be a pro-choicer, perhaps of whom we are skeptical should be a question all should ask.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 12:52:37 am
@DiogenesLamp

I wonder what "your side" means.  Are you saying "The Side of Willful Ignorance"...the side that puts its head in the sand rather than read various sources to get a broad, informed view?

That stands in sharp contrast to the conservative side, which is built on information, not ad hominem.


Are we then to gain useful knowledge from perusing Liberal sites and magazines?    If any such exists there,   you would be searching for a needle in a haystack to find it.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2017, 12:55:32 am
In another venue, I read about the statute of limitations in regards to that case. I'm sorry for the confusion and turmoil with Moore, I think he's had some of his moral authority undermined, I'm sorry for these women if true but the statute of limitations all the same means that...

We've had Ted Kennedy in the Senate, people like Bubba and Ms. Clinton in powerful places in the government and there are many more. Most of these people have been democrats.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 14, 2017, 12:56:14 am
   I was way out of line there fellas, here's the official twitter photo


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C207o_AXcAM_Tyj.jpg)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ee/6e/f6/ee6ef62c8f640b8193516e3555ead79f.gif)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 12:58:01 am
Over at TOS,  I just read that her voter registration was "inactive."   If this turns out to be true,   then it sounds like she is already caught in a lie.   


I believe I read that she claims to be a "Trump"  voter.     If your voter registration is "inactive",   how can you be a Trump voter?   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DB on November 14, 2017, 01:02:37 am


If we are leaving it to God,  I believe he has this thing called "redemption."    Can a man be redeemed for something he did 40 years ago by living an exemplary life ever since?   


If Moore did touch those girls/women,   they should have put it behind them already.   



Once again,  we are down to a binary choice.   There is no "none of the above"  option on the ballot.   It will be Moore,  or it will be Jones. 

Moore may or may not have touched some girls inappropriately 40 years ago.   Jones advocates partial birth abortion right now.   (And transgenders using girls bathrooms,  and all the usual Democrat insanity.)   


People would have us be "penny wise and pound foolish."   

Redemption can only come when one admits the transgression and asks for forgiveness. And if you know you did the deed and are publicly calling those who are calling you on it "liars" - you deserve total scorn. You are willfully worsening the injury to others due to your previous abusive actions all to avoid the consequences.

I don't know what happened here. With more than one accuser combined with known questionable behavior the benefit of the doubt has to go to the accusers it seems to me.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Major Confusion on November 14, 2017, 01:05:16 am
Regardless of guilt or innocence the GOPe has already determined that he is guilty and his career is over...unless there becomes overwhelming evidence that these women lied.

What's the count up to now?  One woman making an allegation is one thing, but 5 or 6 certainly starts to sound more serious...especially if they are independent stories.

Vote how you want, but a write in campaign is still an option.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 14, 2017, 01:05:42 am
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/26hituqs0NWhJAOM8/giphy.gif)

@corbe

Don't worry about it, a curious mind and reading varied sources doesn't make you a liberal.  I would really like to see our side get over the notion that anything besides "approved" reading, etc makes you suspect.  It's very TOSlike.


 @CatherineofAragon

      I have read the Communist Manifesto, I'll admit but don't recall reading the Nation, though possible.
      I thought the 'smirking' Trump was the perfect symbolism for the abstract thought I was trying to convey but if Truth be told I was probably trolling and only Frank cares.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 14, 2017, 01:12:31 am

Yes,  the swamp is going all out to get him.    Both the Democrats and the Republicans are trying everything of which they can think to stop him from getting into the Senate.

If this was a strategy from the GOPe swamp, they would have used it during the primaries to help Strange.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:12:37 am
Redemption can only come when one admits the transgression and asks for forgiveness. And if you know you did the deed and are publicly calling those who are calling you on it "liars" - you deserve total scorn. You are willfully worsening the injury to others due to your previous abusive actions all to avoid the consequences.



And what sort of injury is it to destroy a man's life for something you claim he did 40 years ago?   Does that balance the scales?   

Something that apparently wasn't important enough for you to address during multiple opportunities over four decades,  is now so burningly important that you just can't contain yourself any longer? 

I would say that if there was to be a reckoning,  it should have happened decades ago,   and now the people who will be injured by her silence are the people of Alabama,  who would have perhaps made a different choice had she spoken out sooner.   



I don't know what happened here. With more than one accuser combined with known questionable behavior the benefit of the doubt has to go to the accusers it seems to me.


Yes,  this has moved the preponderance of the evidence against Moore,   but it doesn't change the larger moral question involved.   

The opponent is still an advocate for baby murder and homosexuals in women's bathrooms.  (Among his support for other Liberal insanity.)   


They are going to have to accuse Moore of much worse than this to change that calculus. 


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:15:06 am
If this was a strategy from the GOPe swamp, they would have used it during the primaries to help Strange.


It may not have presented itself at that time.    From what i've read at other places,   McConnell knew of these accusations long before they were released to the public,   but I would suspect the origin of this is the Democrat side of the Swamp.  Specifically that Jones supporting accuser.   I believe she is the one that contacted the Washington Post to help them create this story. 


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 01:16:31 am

The Democrats will vote Jones,   and if Republicans split the ticket,  it's going to be Jones.
There is one potential way out: Alabama requires absolute majority of votes. If none poll a majority, it goes to runoff.

The write-in would have to finish first, or second but deny Jones a majority, for that to be plausible.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:17:27 am
What's the count up to now?  One woman making an allegation is one thing, but 5 or 6 certainly starts to sound more serious...especially if they are independent stories.



There are two who accused him of sexual impropriety.   The other three women said he hugged and kissed them,   but nothing more than that.   Ironically that serves as a character witness for his behavior. 




Vote how you want, but a write in campaign is still an option.


If you want Jones elected.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:21:30 am
There is one potential way out: Alabama requires absolute majority of votes. If none poll a majority, it goes to runoff.

The write-in would have to finish first, or second but deny Jones a majority, for that to be plausible.


That is a "hail Mary pass."    It is just as likely to produce a runoff between Moore and Jones,  and Alabamans would just have to do the whole thing over again.   

I think Moore's supporters will beat out in numbers,  whomever is the "write in"  candidate. 

The "write ins"  will come from the Republican side.   It will only effectively split the Republican vote.   The Democrat vote will be solidly behind Jones.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 01:31:58 am

Are we then to gain useful knowledge from perusing Liberal sites and magazines?    If any such exists there,   you would be searching for a needle in a haystack to find it.

YES. The very reason I am very conversant with the occult and profane as a Christian. There is much value in knowing what the other side is doing.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:32:11 am
(http://i.magaimg.net/img/1uv0.png)


Didn't vote.   Said she was a "Trump" voter.   


There is a principle in law given by the Latin phrase   "Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus"  that means if you lie about one thing,   you are not to be believed about anything.   


I believe this woman has lied about being a "Trump" voter.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 01:35:28 am

Yes,  this has moved the preponderance of the evidence against Moore,   but it doesn't change the larger moral question involved.   

WHAT EVIDENCE????
It's all hearsay, incidental, or circumstantial.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 01:36:22 am


There are two who accused him of sexual impropriety.   The other three women said he hugged and kissed them,   but nothing more than that.   Ironically that serves as a character witness for his behavior. 





If you want Jones elected.
Those three were of age, legally, and said it was consensual.
Not molestation, no matter how you define that.

That leaves one with a questionable allegation, and an add-on (double down), both of whom remember pretty doggone vivid details--which reeks of possible coaching.

The devil's in the details. What 'old' cars had power locks in 1977?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Major Confusion on November 14, 2017, 01:36:48 am
Caveat:  I grew up in Alabama, cast my first vote there. 

Alabama voters do NOT like Northeast liberal elites telling them how they should vote.  Mitch & company should be careful not to push too hard, or Moore will be elected out of spite.

Personally, I'd never vote for him, but I live in another state, so my opinion doesn't matter here.  However, I have family there, so I'm not entirely unbiased.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 01:38:56 am
@CatherineofAragon

      I have read the Communist Manifesto, I'll admit but don't recall reading the Nation, though possible.
      I thought the 'smirking' Trump was the perfect symbolism for the abstract thought I was trying to convey but if Truth be told I was probably trolling and only Frank cares.

@corbe

Which is always important, of course.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Major Confusion on November 14, 2017, 01:40:06 am
@corbe

Which is always important, of course.

Channeling my inner Luke Skywalker, I care!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Major Confusion on November 14, 2017, 01:42:11 am


There are two who accused him of sexual impropriety.   The other three women said he hugged and kissed them,   but nothing more than that.   Ironically that serves as a character witness for his behavior. 





If you want Jones elected.

I have no dog in this fight.  But people I care about do.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 01:43:09 am
WHAT EVIDENCE????
It's all hearsay, incidental, or circumstantial.
A "preponderance" of evidence is the standard for civil cases, not a criminal charge, which must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Major Confusion on November 14, 2017, 01:45:12 am
A "preponderance" of evidence is the standard for civil cases, not a criminal charge, which must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

To paraphrase Judge Wapner, the preponderance of evidence is what a reasonable man would believe to be true.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:46:03 am
WHAT EVIDENCE????
It's all hearsay, incidental, or circumstantial.


Two accusers make the claims more credible.   It is possible that both women are lying,   but it is easier to claim this of one than of two.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 01:48:12 am
A "preponderance" of evidence is the standard for civil cases, not a criminal charge, which must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

FINE. It still needs to be evidence, which in this case, is NONE. Recollections from forty years ago.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:48:53 am
Those three were of age, legally, and said it was consensual.
Not molestation, no matter how you define that.

That leaves one with a questionable allegation, and an add-on (double down), both of whom remember pretty doggone vivid details--which reeks of possible coaching.

The devil's in the details. What 'old' cars had power locks in 1977?


I don't think it matters.   If the car had power locks,   he would not have allegedly needed to reach across to lock her door.   

Also,   didn't all power door lock systems have lock and unlock controls on both doors?   I've never heard of a power door lock system with only one lock/unlock switch. 


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:50:17 am
I have no dog in this fight.  But people I care about do.


And which way are they leaning?   

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 01:53:58 am

I don't think it matters.   If the car had power locks,   he would not have allegedly needed to reach across to lock her door.   

Also,   didn't all power door lock systems have lock and unlock controls on both doors?   I've never heard of a power door lock system with only one lock/unlock switch.

The feature you are talking about is the master lockout switch - not available till far into computerization. The master switch, controlled by the driver, or sometimes either front seat, prevents the electric locks and electric windows from operating. But it didn't then, nor does it yet (to my knowledge) prevent the mechanical lock form operation on the door itself.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:54:10 am
A "preponderance" of evidence is the standard for civil cases, not a criminal charge, which must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.


In the court of public opinion,  you don't have to have any evidence.  All you need is accusations.   

So long as the person you are attacking doesn't have the media megaphone behind them,   you can get away with it.    If they are someone like Bill Clinton,   the massive media-weapon will attack their opponents and cover up for actual crimes.   

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Major Confusion on November 14, 2017, 01:54:30 am

And which way are they leaning?

The wrong way, imho.  I'd much rather see them write in Strange or Sessions than vote for Moore.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 01:57:13 am
The feature you are talking about is the master lockout switch - not available till far into computerization. The master switch, controlled by the driver, or sometimes either front seat, prevents the electric locks and electric windows from operating. But it didn't then, nor does it yet (to my knowledge) prevent the mechanical lock form operation on the door itself.


I wasn't talking about a lockout switch,   and from my recollection,  they lock out the windows.   I'm not sure they lock out the lock control.   


I'm just saying that if a car had power door locks,  it had switches on both sides to unlock them.   


I don't think this car had power door locks,   because if it did,   Moore would not have allegedly needed to reach across her to lock it.   He could have done it from the control no his side. 


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 01:59:59 am
Ted Cruz has withdrawn his support.  He's right to do so.

Yesterday I read about an attorney who used to work with Moore in Alabama.  She said people wondered why he hung out at shopping malls trying to meet young girls.  Guys, that's not normal.  Sometimes people you like just turn out to be bad...it's as simple as that.




(https://i.imgur.com/tNHFvdP.jpg)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 02:01:35 am
The wrong way, imho.  I'd much rather see them write in Strange or Sessions than vote for Moore.


And why do you wish for something you cannot possibly have?   I wanted Cruz instead of Trump,   but once it became clear that this was no longer a possibility,   I resigned myself to having to support Trump over that witch-Nazi Hillary.   


The only way strange can win is if a write in vote makes him ahead of Moore in a runoff election that doesn't give Jones a majority.    That is a long shot.    I think Moore is going to definitely be ahead of any write in candidate because his supporters are determined and full of passion.   

If a runoff occurs,  it will likely be between Jones and Moore,  so the whole thing will just be a waste of everyone's time. 

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 02:04:24 am
Ted Cruz has withdrawn his support.  He's right to do so.

Yesterday I read about an attorney who used to work with Moore in Alabama.  She said people wondered why he hung out at shopping malls trying to meet young girls.  Guys, that's not normal.  Sometimes people you like just turn out to be bad...it's as simple as that.



And sometimes people you don't like,  are really bad.   Bad on  the level of supporting partial birth abortion,  and men pretending to be female going into women's bathrooms.   


Sometimes you have to hold your nose and vote for the lesser bad to prevent a far worse bad.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 02:09:37 am

And sometimes people you don't like,  are really bad.   Bad on  the level of supporting partial birth abortion,  and men pretending to be female going into women's bathrooms.   


Sometimes you have to hold your nose and vote for the lesser bad to prevent a far worse bad.

@DiogenesLamp

No.  You don't vote for child molesters.  You never do that.

The fact that I just wrote that sentence made me realize with a shock how far down the slope we've slipped.



Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 02:16:35 am
Ted Cruz has withdrawn his support.  He's right to do so.

Yesterday I read about an attorney who used to work with Moore in Alabama.  She said people wondered why he hung out at shopping malls trying to meet young girls.  Guys, that's not normal.  Sometimes people you like just turn out to be bad...it's as simple as that.


I can't remember a single soul I could accuse of that from thirty years ago - Though I am sure they were there at the time. The clarity of these recollections is an amazement to me.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 02:18:26 am
@DiogenesLamp

No.  You don't vote for child molesters.  You never do that.

The fact that I just wrote that sentence made me realize with a shock how far down the slope we've slipped.


You don't vote for child murders,   and you don't vote for pervert enablers.   


Sometimes you get dealt a bad hand.   


You play it,  and hope for a better hand in the future. 

 

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 02:18:28 am
I can't remember a single soul I could accuse of that from thirty years ago - Though I am sure they were there at the time. The clarity of these recollections is an amazement to me.

@roamer_1

Seems to be a lot of it coming out, for sure.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 02:22:24 am
To paraphrase Judge Wapner, the preponderance of evidence is what a reasonable man would believe to be true.
Let me remind you Wapner was in civil court, not criminal court, so a preponderance of evidence is appropriate for his venue.

For a conviction (criminal court), the standard remains one of 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.

In the 'Court of public opinion', where Moore is being 'tried', it just requires large salacious headlines, scandal, repetition, and enough tongues wagging to affect global weather. Truth is irrelevant.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: montanajoe on November 14, 2017, 02:23:51 am


There are two who accused him of sexual impropriety.   The other three women said he hugged and kissed them,   but nothing more than that.   Ironically that serves as a character witness for his behavior. 




What..lol geez 22222frying pan 22222frying pan 22222frying pan 22222frying pan

When I was a young guy some folks would occasionally want me to run for some political office...I would always decline knowing I had lead a far too interesting a life  :whistle: to ever be elected and had I been elected the chicks would eventually come to roost.. :shrug:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 02:23:57 am
I can't remember a single soul I could accuse of that from thirty years ago - Though I am sure they were there at the time. The clarity of these recollections is an amazement to me.
We didn't have many shopping malls in the late '70s, and they were a big deal. Those were big town things.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 02:25:30 am
@DiogenesLamp

No.  You don't vote for child molesters.  You never do that.

The fact that I just wrote that sentence made me realize with a shock how far down the slope we've slipped.
Slipped far enough to call fellows interested in young ladies past the age of consent child molesters?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Fishrrman on November 14, 2017, 02:57:23 am
Accusations from 40 years ago?
(Well, ok, just THIRTY SEVEN OR THIRTY EIGHT years ago)

Now?

Sorry ladies.
That's too many years gone by, too much water under the bridge.
You should have come forward sooner, because your claims carry no weight now.
At least not with me.

I'd still vote for Moore if I could.
And I believe he's still in a position to win.
Saw a poll out a day or two ago (reported today) that shows the race with Moore ahead 55-45.

What this tells me is that Alabamans ain't buyin' what the northeastern elites are trying to sell them. And I think today's "accusations" may just make them double-down all the more.
I could be wrong.
We'll see.

But if Moore gets elected, that's only the beginning of the fireworks.
Saw another report today where Moore said (in a tweet) that McConnell is the one who should resign.
Judge Moore is literally throwin' down the gauntlet before the Senate.

But hey, guess what?
The Senate CANNOT REFUSE TO SEAT HIM, having been duly elected by his state.
That was settled by the U.S. Supreme Court in a case brought by Adam Clayton Powell in 1969.

If they try to expel him after he's sworn in, there's gonna be hell to pay.
They better think long and hard before they act.
But most of those Senators, well, I just don't seem them as being much smarter than I am.
And I never thought I was that smart a guy (sigh).

Yet dumb as I am, I know one thing:
When this is over, even if Moore is removed, the damage the Republicans do TO THEMSELVES by so doing is going to ruin their chances for 2018.

Judge Roy Moore for U.S. Senate!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: montanajoe on November 14, 2017, 03:02:53 am
I can't remember a single soul I could accuse of that from thirty years ago - Though I am sure they were there at the time. The clarity of these recollections is an amazement to me.

Don't have a dog in this fight...
 
But actually the clarity of someones recollection does not amaze me. I have often ran into folks I may not have seen for 40-50 years and they will bring up something about someone we both knew and suddenly those long forgotten memories are crystal clear.  :shrug:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 03:12:18 am
Accusations from 40 years ago?
(Well, ok, just THIRTY SEVEN OR THIRTY EIGHT years ago)

Now?

Sorry ladies.
That's too many years gone by, too much water under the bridge.
You should have come forward sooner, because your claims carry no weight now.
At least not with me.

I'd still vote for Moore if I could.
And I believe he's still in a position to win.
Saw a poll out a day or two ago (reported today) that shows the race with Moore ahead 55-45.

What this tells me is that Alabamans ain't buyin' what the northeastern elites are trying to sell them. And I think today's "accusations" may just make them double-down all the more.
I could be wrong.
We'll see.

But if Moore gets elected, that's only the beginning of the fireworks.
Saw another report today where Moore said (in a tweet) that McConnell is the one who should resign.
Judge Moore is literally throwin' down the gauntlet before the Senate.

But hey, guess what?
The Senate CANNOT REFUSE TO SEAT HIM, having been duly elected by his state.
That was settled by the U.S. Supreme Court in a case brought by Adam Clayton Powell in 1969.

If they try to expel him after he's sworn in, there's gonna be hell to pay.
They better think long and hard before they act.
But most of those Senators, well, I just don't seem them as being much smarter than I am.
And I never thought I was that smart a guy (sigh).

Yet dumb as I am, I know one thing:
When this is over, even if Moore is removed, the damage the Republicans do TO THEMSELVES by so doing is going to ruin their chances for 2018.

Judge Roy Moore for U.S. Senate!
According to Lou Dobbs on FBN just now, Moore is still polling ahead by 4 points. McConnell and others trying to tell Alabamans what to do likely will not go over well.

The last Senate expulsion was in 1848.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 03:19:08 am
Don't have a dog in this fight...
 
But actually the clarity of someones recollection does not amaze me. I have often ran into folks I may not have seen for 40-50 years and they will bring up something about someone we both knew and suddenly those long forgotten memories are crystal clear.  :shrug:

Sure, me too - but not with the granularity of something like this...

My only dog in this hunt is the offense against a man's honor, simply on the say-so of tongue wagglers. 'Where there's smoke there's fire' - as has been recently quoted to me... Alright fine. fire is easy enough to find. So show me the fire.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:24:15 am
Sure, me too - but not with the granularity of something like this...

My only dog in this hunt is the offense against a man's honor, simply on the say-so of tongue wagglers. 'Where there's smoke there's fire' - as has been recently quoted to me... Alright fine. fire is easy enough to find. So show me the fire.

Five women, 30 sources, Moore's admission he dated teenagers with their mother's permission.

Then, there's this:
Quote

Roy Moore's penchant for flirting with teen girls was "common knowledge" and "not a big secret" around Gadsden, according to some area residents.[/quote)

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/gadsden_residents_say_moores_b.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: kevindavis007 on November 14, 2017, 03:26:32 am
I wonder if this Roy's favorite song:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkR7u_sOtHI
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 03:28:20 am
Five women, 30 sources, Moore's admission he dated teenagers with their mother's permission.

Well hiya Sink! Haven't seen you in a month of sundays!

And 40 years of exemplary service, Several times in the national spotlight several times to election, and one time for sure in the full glare of every hate-filled thing the left can spew (10 Commandments) and not a peep. Not a peep at all.

Now, suddenly and very conveeeeeeniently....

Bullshit.

And I don't care a whit that he was courtin gals with the consent of their mother. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 14, 2017, 03:28:36 am
Five women, 30 sources, Moore's admission he dated teenagers with their mother's permission.

Then, there's this:

Oh effing great. Who let you out of your padded cell?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DCPatriot on November 14, 2017, 03:32:20 am
Oh effing great. Who let you out of your padded cell?

 :laugh: 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 14, 2017, 03:34:51 am
   Welcome back @sinkspur
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 03:36:29 am

You don't vote for child murders,   and you don't vote for pervert enablers.   


Sometimes you get dealt a bad hand.   


You play it,  and hope for a better hand in the future.

@DiogenesLamp

When you get that kind of a hand, you say, okay, I’m not going to lose my soul over politics.  You understand there are more important things.  And you say, I’m sitting this dark mess out.

We give a lot of lip service to God being in control,  but when it comes down to it, we panic and we think He can’t possibly do it without our help.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:36:55 am
Well hiya Sink! Haven't seen you in a month of sundays!

And 40 years of exemplary service, Several times in the national spotlight several times to election, and one time for sure in the full glare of every hate-filled thing the left can spew (10 Commandments) and not a peep. Not a peep at all.

Now, suddenly and very conveeeeeeniently....

Bullshit.

And I don't care a whit that he was courtin gals with the consent of their mother. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Believe the women or not. In the era of Weinstein and Spacey, lots of people have been empowered to come forward, people who had kept hidden their dark secrets for years.  The shoe's on the other foot now.  Women are to be believed, no matter when they come forward.

I lived with this in the Catholic Church, where kids were ridiculed because they didn't tell their parents about their parish priests.  Yashir Ali of Huffington Post hosted a thread on Friday night of women and men, anonymously, sharing their tales of abuse.  By night's end, there were over a hundred of these, most of whom had never shared their stories with anybody.

These power plays are now going to be exposed, no matter who the perps are.  And we can all be thankful for it.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:37:46 am
Oh effing great. Who let you out of your padded cell?

Hiya Frank.  Always a warm welcome from you.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 03:46:52 am
Slipped far enough to call fellows interested in young ladies past the age of consent child molesters?


@Smokin Joe

He molested a 14 year old, did you forget?  That was no slip.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 03:49:26 am

Believe the women or not. In the era of Weinstein and Spacey, lots of people have been empowered to come forward, people who had kept hidden their dark secrets for years.  The shoe's on the other foot now.  Women are to be believed, no matter when they come forward.

I lived with this in the Catholic Church, where kids were ridiculed because they didn't tell their parents about their parish priests.  Yashir Ali of Huffington Post hosted a thread on Friday night of women and men, anonymously, sharing their tales of abuse.  By night's end, there were over a hundred of these, most of whom had never shared their stories with anybody.

These power plays are now going to be exposed, no matter who the perps are.  And we can all be thankful for it.

Yah right whatever... I can see why you have a sensitivity.

But this is rural Alabama.

That kind of dog don't hunt around there, and it don't matter a bit how powerful the dignitary may be. Sexual assault is a blood libel against a whole family. At the very least he'd have been run out of town. At the most he'd have been disappeared 3s style.

No record of any such going on. Not a single time where somebody's daddy or big brother taught him from the good book... no charges proffered, no hospital bills. Everyone just shut up and let him have his way, including the (even then) democrat press, who would have hated him with a passion for changing to GOP. They've had the long knives out for Roy Moore from a long, long time ago.

Yet not a PEEP of it in the press. Not a peep from the families. Not a peep from the community.

Common secret my ass.
It's bullshit.
It's a witch hunt.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:55:07 am
Yah right whatever... I can see why you have a sensitivity.

But this is rural Alabama.

That kind of dog don't hunt around there, and it don't matter a bit how powerful the dignitary may be. Sexual assault is a blood libel against a whole family. At the very least he'd have been run out of town. At the most he'd have been disappeared 3s style.

No record of any such going on. Not a single time where somebody's daddy or big brother taught him from the good book... no charges proffered, no hospital bills. Everyone just shut up and let him have his way, including the (even then) democrat press, who would have hated him with a passion for changing to GOP. They've had the long knives out for Roy Moore from a long, long time ago.

Yet not a PEEP of it in the press. Not a peep from the families. Not a peep from the community.

Common secret my ass.
It's bullshit.
It's a witch hunt.

So you don't believe these women. 

Don't tie yourself to that to tightly.  There are more to come. Pederasts never stop with one or four or five.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:56:33 am
Yah right whatever... I can see why you have a sensitivity.

But this is rural Alabama.

That kind of dog don't hunt around there, and it don't matter a bit how powerful the dignitary may be. Sexual assault is a blood libel against a whole family. At the very least he'd have been run out of town. At the most he'd have been disappeared 3s style.

No record of any such going on. Not a single time where somebody's daddy or big brother taught him from the good book... no charges proffered, no hospital bills. Everyone just shut up and let him have his way, including the (even then) democrat press, who would have hated him with a passion for changing to GOP. They've had the long knives out for Roy Moore from a long, long time ago.

Yet not a PEEP of it in the press. Not a peep from the families. Not a peep from the community.

Common secret my ass.
It's bullshit.
It's a witch hunt.

And there was an understanding in the community:

Gadsden locals say Moore's predatory behavior at mall, restaurants not a secret

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/gadsden_residents_say_moores_b.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 03:59:46 am
I wonder if this Roy's favorite song:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkR7u_sOtHI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h2zp96Hzhg
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 04:01:50 am
Moore’s campaign says the yearbook signature is forged.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:09:33 am
Moore’s campaign says the yearbook signature is forged.

It's not.

Compare the signatures down in this article. They're identical:

http://www.businessinsider.com/roy-moore-yearbook-sexual-assault-beverly-young-nelson-2017-11
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:11:04 am
It's not.

Compare the signatures down in this article. They're identical:

http://www.businessinsider.com/roy-moore-yearbook-sexual-assault-beverly-young-nelson-2017-11
Which means the forger used a current signature as the sample. Note that the handwriting of the note is in a somewhat different style.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:16:27 am
Which means the forger used a current signature as the sample. Note that the handwriting of the note is in a somewhat different style.

You're kidding.  It's identical. 

You're not defending Roy Moore, are you?  You believe his lame-assed response over these five women? 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DB on November 14, 2017, 04:23:51 am
Moore says he doesn't know of the restaurant or where it is located. That's going on the record as a statement of fact.

Now if witnesses come forward that he frequented the restaurant his goose is cooked. We'll see.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 04:26:18 am


@Smokin Joe

He molested a 14 year old, did you forget?  That was no slip.

Did anyone ever bother to verify she was 14 in 1979,  was it?   I've seen a comment from someone that claims to have dated her in 1977,  and according to them,  she was older than 16 in 1977.   


So again,  has anyone verified her age?   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 04:28:08 am
Moore’s campaign says the yearbook signature is forged.


I find that unlikely.   That sounds like a desperation claim.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:31:12 am
Did anyone ever bother to verify she was 14 in 1979,  was it?   I've seen a comment from someone that claims to have dated her in 1977,  and according to them,  she was older than 16 in 1977.   


So again,  has anyone verified her age?

Yes.  The WAPO reporters verified her age from the custody filing which was being argued in 1979 at the Etiwah County courthouse.  Leigh Corfman says now she's 53, so work backward on the age thing.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 14, 2017, 04:31:19 am
Moore’s campaign says the yearbook signature is forged.

Of course it is. That 1977 signature is identical to the one Moore shovels out now to his slackjawed locals. Peoples signature changes over time. That has been proven. I also cannot find why someone would sign a Christmas greeting on a book published in the spring of that year.

https://www.slideshare.net/hunkim/signature-change-analysis
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2017, 04:36:10 am
There is a good chance at the least, these stories are going to be embellished, I have also seen a person who purports to know about handwriting (not an expert per se) see the yearbook part is a forgery.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 14, 2017, 04:43:12 am
Moore’s campaign says the yearbook signature is forged.

They're just now saying that?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 04:54:36 am
There is a good chance at the least, these stories are going to be embellished, I have also seen a person who purports to know about handwriting (not an expert per se) see the yearbook part is a forgery.


I find that hard to believe.   It would require a level of outright gall to try and pull a stunt like that.   I think Moore knew the girl,  but I think she's embellishing,  if not outright constructing her story. 


Of course I believe someone said Moore is denying knowing her,  or going to the diner where she worked.   I think that if he is lying,   this claim will be disproven rather quickly,  and if it is,   *THEN*  I think Moore will be finished.   

If it can be demonstrated that he really did not know this woman,  and that he didn't go to the diner where she worked,   then her credibility is finished. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 06:18:44 am


@Smokin Joe

He molested a 14 year old, did you forget?  That was no slip.
That depends on whether or not you find that account credible. oh and the truth, however you find her story.

You have convicted him. Judge, jury, and executioner. We have no need of judge, jury, or Constitution.

Trial by combat! Tabloids at twenty paces!

If he did, it is unconscionable, despite that she might have told him she was older--and looked it.

If not, her tongue should be cut out.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: To-Whose-Benefit? on November 14, 2017, 07:37:20 am
Well...according to "Wikipedia" approximately 30 women have come forward against him.  That is pretty overwhelming.  Though noted, "Wikipedia" is stating that a better source is needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore


Yes, and remember that Wiki is open source to Anyone.

Even I have corrected their copy in the past.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: To-Whose-Benefit? on November 14, 2017, 07:47:50 am
@libertybele

Might be an Interesting project to take a Screen Capture of that wiki page and see how it get's re-written between now and the election.

It has happened before.

All you have to do is register at Wiki and you can revise anything you want.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 14, 2017, 11:59:06 am
You believe his lame-assed response over these five women?

Damned straight.

I'll believe Moore before I believe the incredible Christmas Miracle claims by women suddenly popping out of the woodwork to claim molestation after 40 years of silence and both Democrat and GOP leadership racing to microphones to demand he step aside.

I'm not into believing convenience in favor of the Oligarchy.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 14, 2017, 12:00:07 pm
Yes, and remember that Wiki is open source to Anyone.

Even I have corrected their copy in the past.

I had a friend who went into Wikipedia and changed the values for Planck's and Boltzman's constants.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 12:40:48 pm
@DiogenesLamp

You’re ignorant of the issues women deal with after being victimized as Moore victimized those girls, especially at such a young age, so I’ll let you blame the kids for being leched after. 

There’s a moral issue with Moore’s behavior now, though.  If this is all true, he is still denying everything, in effect saying all of these people are liars, while he’s the one doing the lying.  That’s a man with no character. 

I really wonder what would have happened if he had come clean to his voters and thrown himself on their mercy.  Things might look very different right now.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Suppressed on November 14, 2017, 12:45:13 pm

Are we then to gain useful knowledge from perusing Liberal sites and magazines?    If any such exists there,   you would be searching for a needle in a haystack to find it.

The general who fails to conduct reconnaissance upon his opponent is rarely effective.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 12:45:13 pm
Did anyone ever bother to verify she was 14 in 1979,  was it?   I've seen a comment from someone that claims to have dated her in 1977,  and according to them,  she was older than 16 in 1977.   


So again,  has anyone verified her age?

@DiogenesLamp

You don’t think that was one of the first, most essential things that was checked in a story about an underaged girl? 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 12:47:20 pm
Damned straight.

I'll believe Moore before I believe the incredible Christmas Miracle claims by women suddenly popping out of the woodwork to claim molestation after 40 years of silence and both Democrat and GOP leadership racing to microphones to demand he step aside.

I'm not into believing convenience in favor of the Oligarchy.

@INVAR, I’m curious...is that what you said about the claims made by Paula Jones, Juanita Broderick, etc.?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 14, 2017, 12:54:09 pm
@INVAR, I’m curious...is that what you said about the claims made by Paula Jones, Juanita Broderick, etc.?

Clinton had a reputation and a lot of rumors and whispers of his sordid behavior that was serial in nature.

And, their stories had weight, merit and legit corroboration far beyond what I'm reading with Moore. 

Gloria Allred was not exactly representing either Jones or Broderick either and the media nearly destroyed them both.  In this case - the media is lofting the accusers up as hapless victims of a serial rapist.

I don't buy it.  Not for a second.  This is a political witch hunt, designed to make sure no one takes that seat that might not do what the Oligarchy wants. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Suppressed on November 14, 2017, 12:55:18 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h2zp96Hzhg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aWhn0Hc8ps
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 14, 2017, 01:00:43 pm
This is a special election; why couldn't it be postponed if the majority party suddenly lacks a candidate? 

If Moore's on the ballot then Doug Jones wins.

Moore won two elections to win the right stand for the Senate. Who do you think you
are that you can cancel an election and choose the candidate? That's what the Rat party
does. I think the R voters of Alabama have made their choice ... twice. The next Senator
from Alabama will be Moore or a radical baby killing progressive.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 01:00:59 pm
Well...according to "Wikipedia" approximately 30 women have come forward against him.  That is pretty overwhelming.  Though noted, "Wikipedia" is stating that a better source is needed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore
Anyone can change what is in Wikipedia so I wouldn’t put it up as a legit reference.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 14, 2017, 01:25:08 pm
You're kidding.  It's identical. 

You're not defending Roy Moore, are you?  You believe his lame-assed response over these five women?

Remind me again of how many women falsely accused Herman Cain? And how
many falsely accused Donald Trump? This is SOP for the uniparty.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 01:31:45 pm
They're just now saying that?

@Hoodat

Late last night.  But now....I’ve been checking various conservative Twitter sources on my phone, and I’m going to have to backtrack through them.  The campaign says Moore was not a DA and never signed anything personal as the DA, but a check revealed those claims aren’t true.

I’ll grab a screenshot of that post on my laptop and post it.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 14, 2017, 01:34:42 pm
@Hoodat

Late last night.  But now....I’ve been checking various conservative Twitter sources on my phone, and I’m going to have to backtrack through them.  The campaign says Moore was not a DA and never signed anything personal as the DA, but a check revealed those claims aren’t true.

I’ll grab a screenshot of that post on my laptop and post it.

Wow! You have evidence from Twit? Well then......who cares.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 14, 2017, 01:37:40 pm
Remind me again of how many women falsely accused Herman Cain? And how
many falsely accused Donald Trump? This is SOP for the uniparty.

These don't appear to be false accusations.   The time is short to save this seat.  Establishment Republicans aren't the only voice in this chorus -  the most respected names in conservatism agree - Moore must step down.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 01:39:56 pm
Has anyone else checked out this Old Hickory House place? If it h been around some 40 years, you’d think there would be a lot of reviews. But try to find any.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Suppressed on November 14, 2017, 01:40:20 pm
Once again, the voters have selected a Social Conservative to hand over a Senate seat to the Dems.
Moore is arrogant, and should never have been slinging stones in his glass house -- there's a reason Jesus talked about casting the first stone.

He might have done nothing illegal.  Heck, the 14-year-old might have lied about her age, and stretched the situation.  But his admission of dating proclivities is just enough to sow doubt without answering questions.

Just thing of qhat a few more GOP seats coukd hsve accomplished, even if not strongly conservative.  Could we have a moratorium on SoCon nutbags, please?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 14, 2017, 01:43:42 pm
These don't appear to be false accusations.   

Actually yes they do. None of these accusers took things forward with any seriousness after either A) the candidate dropped out or B) the candidate won.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 01:45:18 pm
Once again, the voters have selected a Social Conservative to hand over a Senate seat to the Dems.
Moore is arrogant, and should never have been slinging stones in his glass house -- there's a reason Jesus talked about casting the first stone.

He might have done nothing illegal.  Heck, the 14-year-old might have lied about her age, and stretched the situation.  But his admission of dating proclivities is just enough to sow doubt without answering questions.

Just thing of qhat a few more GOP seats coukd hsve accomplished, even if not strongly conservative.  Could we have a moratorium on SoCon nutbags, please?
Spoken like a true RINO!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 14, 2017, 01:46:40 pm
These don't appear to be false accusations.   The time is short to save this seat.  Establishment Republicans aren't the only voice in this chorus -  the most respected names in conservatism agree - Moore must step down.

If I recall correctly Gloria Alfred represented the Trump accusers too. Anyone
else see a pattern here?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 14, 2017, 01:47:04 pm
Once again, the voters have selected a Social Conservative to hand over a Senate seat to the Dems.

Right. We need more of your style people running like Jeff Flake, John McCain, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, Charlie Dent, Eric Cantor who don't bother with social issues and stick to the serious matter of reaching across the aisle and getting important business done.

Excellent point.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 01:48:15 pm
That depends on whether or not you find that account credible. oh and the truth, however you find her story.

You have convicted him. Judge, jury, and executioner. We have no need of judge, jury, or Constitution.

Trial by combat! Tabloids at twenty paces!

If he did, it is unconscionable, despite that she might have told him she was older--and looked it.

If not, her tongue should be cut out.

@Smokin Joe

Well, as I noted over and over on the Fight Club thread, and which I’m sure you saw, I wasn’t sure at the time.  It looked that way to me.  But now, after all of this from people n Alabama?  A cop saying he was banned from the mall for harassing teenaged girls?  Heck yeah, I think he’s guilty.

And it’s fine for me to think so.  I’m not “convicting” him and there IS no need for a judge or jury—-he isn’t on trial.  Politicians are tried in the court of public opinion. 

This guy’s life isn’t going to be ruined by denying him higher office. 

So if he’s guilty, she might have been partially to blame, because men in their thirties cruise malls for kids all the time.   But if not, cut out her tongue.  I’m thinking another body part would be more suitable for removal, and it isn’t hers.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 14, 2017, 01:49:13 pm
Spoken like a true RINO!
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 01:54:54 pm
Has anyone else checked out this Old Hickory House place? If it h been around some 40 years, you’d think there would be a lot of reviews. But try to find any.

@RetBobbyMI

Looks like there are a few at Mapquest and Facebook, but it’s a little confusing because there are restaurants with the same name in NC and GA.   

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 02:03:57 pm
 888high58888
Right. We need more of your style people running like Jeff Flake, John McCain, Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, Charlie Dent, Eric Cantor who don't bother with social issues and stick to the serious matter of reaching across the aisle and getting important business done.

Excellent point.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 14, 2017, 02:09:10 pm
Once again, the voters have selected a Social Conservative to hand over a Senate seat to the Dems.
Moore is arrogant, and should never have been slinging stones in his glass house -- there's a reason Jesus talked about casting the first stone.

He might have done nothing illegal.  Heck, the 14-year-old might have lied about her age, and stretched the situation.  But his admission of dating proclivities is just enough to sow doubt without answering questions.

Just thing of qhat a few more GOP seats coukd hsve accomplished, even if not strongly conservative.  Could we have a moratorium on SoCon nutbags, please?

 :amen:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Suppressed on November 14, 2017, 02:23:32 pm
Spoken like a true RINO!

Then let me add -- "In their place, let's put forth constitutional conservatives!"
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 14, 2017, 02:25:01 pm
Then let me add -- "In their place, let's put forth constitutional conservatives!"

Like Mo Brooks.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 14, 2017, 02:29:32 pm
Like Mo Brooks.

No. Like Foster Brooks.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 02:34:19 pm
You're not defending Roy Moore, are you?  You believe his lame-assed response over these five women?

@sinkspur

Damned right I'm defending him and find it very odd that you only show up around here when you think there is another republican candidate you can help tear down!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 02:37:06 pm
Clinton had a reputation and a lot of rumors and whispers of his sordid behavior that was serial in nature.

And, their stories had weight, merit and legit corroboration far beyond what I'm reading with Moore. 

Gloria Allred was not exactly representing either Jones or Broderick either and the medi a nearly destroyed them both.  In this case - the media is lofting the accusers up as hapless victims of a serial rapist.

I don't buy it.  Not for a second.  This is a political witch hunt, designed to make sure no one takes that seat that might not do what the Oligarchy wants.

@INVAR

Moore had a reputation, too. 

To believe that all of these people are lying strains credulity.

I’m sorry you allow partisanship to color your objectivity. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Restored on November 14, 2017, 02:40:29 pm
The media has been hammering the "Fake News" narrative for so long, people have started to believe there is Fake News. I think that is why Moore isn't being hurt as much. This whole scenario sounds like it could be "fake".
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 14, 2017, 02:43:03 pm
@INVAR

Moore had a reputation, too. 

To believe that all of these people are lying strains credulity.


All two of them?   No,   that doesn't strain credulity very much.    So far there are three that claim he merely hugged and kissed them,   making this behavior the more likely to be accurate. 

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 14, 2017, 02:51:02 pm
No. Like Foster Brooks.

Just what we need.  Someone who drinks like a Kennedy.

(http://1funny.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/dean-martin-and-foster-brooks-th.jpg)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 14, 2017, 02:58:04 pm
Moore had a reputation, too. 

Yes, that suddenly and miraculously appeared within the last two weeks after Moore was double-digits ahead of the Democrat and was all but assured of winning and being seated as AL Senator.

To believe that all of these people are lying strains credulity.

To believe that these people are telling the truth in an 11th hour sudden avalanche of unprovable allegations is what strains credulity.

I’m sorry you allow partisanship to color your objectivity.

It has nothing to do with Partisanship because I am not a Republican and would like nothing better for that party to go the way of the Whigs.

I'm more interested in the mechanics of corruption and the politics of personal destruction upon a person whom threatens what the Oligarchy wanted.

McConnell and McCain were both out of the gate within hours of the first allegation's publication with the demand Moore 'step aside'.  Followed by Grahamnesty demanding the same after he just got back from going to court to contend with a judge to exonerate Democrat Bob Menendez from underage criminal sex abuse and corruption charges.

I believe the Oligarchy wanted Strange, and that the people of Alabama gave them the finger and chose Moore was unacceptable (as Corker himself stated that voting for Moore as their nominee was 'A Bridge Too Far), and this is the "Deep State's" response in telling the people of Alabama that they will choose their rulers for them, and push for the Democrat to have the seat if needs be.

I'll believe Moore before I'm going to believe the media, the Republican Party leadership, Gloria Allred and character-challenged accusers with ties to the Democrat party.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:09:10 pm
Remind me again of how many women falsely accused Herman Cain? And how
many falsely accused Donald Trump? This is SOP for the uniparty.

How do you know they were false? 

They were all believable.  And Trump said he was going to sue them.  How many has he sued? 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Victoria33 on November 14, 2017, 03:13:00 pm
@CatherineofAragon

Last night I read the accounts of people who had responsible jobs in the mall of that town at that time and they all knew Moore had been banned from the mall for soliciting sex from teenagers in the mall.

Moore, being a deputy district attorney at the time, had the power to hurt anyone who would make public what he did.  No one, even adults, would go against him.  Now, they can and they are. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 14, 2017, 03:15:27 pm
How do you know they were false? 

They were all believable.  And Trump said he was going to sue them.  How many has he sued?

Because nothing ever came of them.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 14, 2017, 03:16:29 pm
@INVAR

Moore had a reputation, too. 

To believe that all of these people are lying strains credulity.

I’m sorry you allow partisanship to color your objectivity.

For INVAR, it's not partisanship, it's that Moore is his kind of bigoted assclown.   He thinks most Republicans are out to get and silence the bigoted assclowns.   He'll keep defending Moore even if he were to sign an affidavit admitting all the accusations are true.   After all,  Mary was a teenager . . .  *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 14, 2017, 03:21:58 pm
For INVAR, it's not partisanship, it's that Moore is his kind of bigoted assclown.

Says the king of bigoted Leftist assclowns on this board.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 03:34:01 pm
If this Old Hickory House has been around for 40 some odd years, then why isn’t there any reviews of it anywhere? Even Facebook has a made up page with no details. Nothing on Yelp either. Saw one page where it had only 4 employees and made only 100 grand a year.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 03:34:36 pm
@Smokin Joe

Well, as I noted over and over on the Fight Club thread, and which I’m sure you saw, I wasn’t sure at the time.  It looked that way to me.  But now, after all of this from people n Alabama?  A cop saying he was banned from the mall for harassing teenaged girls?  Heck yeah, I think he’s guilty.

And it’s fine for me to think so.  I’m not “convicting” him and there IS no need for a judge or jury—-he isn’t on trial.  Politicians are tried in the court of public opinion. 

This guy’s life isn’t going to be ruined by denying him higher office. 

So if he’s guilty, she might have been partially to blame, because men in their thirties cruise malls for kids all the time.   But if not, cut out her tongue.  I’m thinking another body part would be more suitable for removal, and it isn’t hers.
The hell he isn't on trial, it's trial by Media.

It is as common as cat crap in a litter box nowadays, and even here, half a dozen of you are calling for him to surrender a hard fought candidacy over allegations.

That, considering the effort, etc. put forth to get that far would represent being deprived of something he has worked for without due process of law. It's the same sort of character assassination carried out against another candidate, and as I said, if the charges have merit--IF, then he should step down--and IF he knowingly groped some girl younger than the age of consent or against her will, then produce the evidence and at least give the man a chance to be exonerated.

This sort of smear reeks of seven mistresses and daddy killing JFK. It has that same stink to it. 

I'm not sure how fast malls went up in Alabama, but I grew up 50 miles from Washington DC and knew of one by 1974. I really doubt there were multiple malls in a town in Alabama in 1977, or that Moore--or anyone else-- had a reputation built for 'cruising for young girls' in malls there in 1977. There might have been one in town.


What has me floored, though, aside from a couple of usual suspects, is the absolute determination some on this board have to hang this guy.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: endicom on November 14, 2017, 03:36:12 pm
No. Like Foster Brooks.

You're getting close:

(https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.jRm2PxmBpe7RNDqEIPyinwE6DG&pid=15.1&P=0&w=303&h=192)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 03:39:19 pm
The hell he isn't on trial, it's trial by Media.

It is as common as cat crap in a litter box nowadays, and even here, half a dozen of you are calling for him to surrender a hard fought candidacy over allegations.

That, considering the effort, etc. put forth to get that far would represent being deprived of something he has worked for without due process of law. It's the same sort of character assassination carried out against another candidate, and as I said, if the charges have merit--IF, then he should step down--and IF he knowingly groped some girl younger than the age of consent or against her will, then produce the evidence and at least give the man a chance to be exonerated.

This sort of smear reeks of seven mistresses and daddy killing JFK. It has that same stink to it.
Agree. That’s why these sleezeballs do it. It’s so easy to make allegations in the court of public opinion because they don’t have to prove their facts beyond a reasonable doubt. Just put it out there in the media, even paid for by the media, and wammo they’re guilty. Pathetic state of affairs in this country.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:41:10 pm
If this Old Hickory House has been around for 40 some odd years, then why isn’t there any reviews of it anywhere? Even Facebook has a made up page with no details. Nothing on Yelp either. Saw one page where it had only 4 employees and made only 100 grand a year.

Maybe people in Gadsden don't leave reviews. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 03:43:45 pm
Maybe people in Gadsden don't leave reviews.
So Gadsden never gets tourists, the very people likely to leave reviews? Tell that to the Chamber of Commerce.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:44:24 pm
The hell he isn't on trial, it's trial by Media.

It is as common as cat crap in a litter box nowadays, and even here, half a dozen of you are calling for him to surrender a hard fought candidacy over allegations.

That, considering the effort, etc. put forth to get that far would represent being deprived of something he has worked for without due process of law. It's the same sort of character assassination carried out against another candidate, and as I said, if the charges have merit--IF, then he should step down--and IF he knowingly groped some girl younger than the age of consent or against her will, then produce the evidence and at least give the man a chance to be exonerated.

This sort of smear reeks of seven mistresses and daddy killing JFK. It has that same stink to it.

Really?  Ole Mitch McConnell realizes we're at a turning point.  Weinstein, Spacey, Louis CK have demonstrated that women don't lie about these kinds of things, that they don't tell because of fear they won't be believed, and, as the reaction has demonstrated, they don't tell because of how they'll be treated by defenders.

If the Grand Old Pederast party wants to go into next year's elections defending Roy Moore, good luck with that.  Is losing Congress worth defending this unfit candidate?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 03:46:34 pm
Because nothing ever came of them.

LOL!! Those women are still around and they haven't backed off their accusations.  Trump told you the way he acted toward women in the Access Hollywood tape, and you still won't believe him.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: ABX on November 14, 2017, 03:46:58 pm
If this Old Hickory House has been around for 40 some odd years, then why isn’t there any reviews of it anywhere? Even Facebook has a made up page with no details. Nothing on Yelp either. Saw one page where it had only 4 employees and made only 100 grand a year.

Not that difficult to find, and most of these are old listings and reviews, from 2013 and before. (yes, some jokers added a review in the past week but there are also reviews from 2011 and 2013)

https://www.mapquest.com/us/alabama/old-hickory-house-363661604
https://www.yelp.com/biz/old-hickory-house-gadsden?adjust_creative=bing&utm_campaign=yelp_feed&utm_medium=feed_v2&utm_source=bing

(http://atlanta-food-critic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/header-old-hickory-house-northlake-tucker-dekalb.jpg)

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 14, 2017, 03:47:55 pm
Is losing Congress worth defending this unfit candidate?

If they lose Congress it will be due to their doing jack shit that they promised their constituents for 7 years leading up to the last election and  acting like Democrats and supporting the Democrat agenda.  It's NOT going to be due the fact that the voters in Alabama elect Moore to represent them.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 14, 2017, 03:48:20 pm
If this Old Hickory House has been around for 40 some odd years, then why isn’t there any reviews of it anywhere? Even Facebook has a made up page with no details. Nothing on Yelp either. Saw one page where it had only 4 employees and made only 100 grand a year.

'Old Hickory House' is a chain.  We have a few here in Atlanta.  Or at least we used to.  I know of one in Dunwoody and another near Ansley Park.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 03:48:52 pm
Really?  Ole Mitch McConnell realizes we're at a turning point.  Weinstein, Spacey, Louis CK have demonstrated that women don't lie about these kinds of things, that they don't tell because of fear they won't be believed, and, as the reaction has demonstrated, they don't tell because of how they'll be treated by defenders.

If the Grand Old Pederast party wants to go into next year's elections defending Roy Moore, good luck with that.  Is losing Congress worth defending this unfit candidate?

What Ole Mitch knows is that if Roy Moore became a senator he will then have TWO straight arrow constitutionalist to deal with in that place! 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 03:49:24 pm
Really?  Ole Mitch McConnell realizes we're at a turning point.  Weinstein, Spacey, Louis CK have demonstrated that women don't lie about these kinds of things, that they don't tell because of fear they won't be believed, and, as the reaction has demonstrated, they don't tell because of how they'll be treated by defenders.

If the Grand Old Pederast party wants to go into next year's elections defending Roy Moore, good luck with that.  Is losing Congress worth defending this unfit candidate?
So is McConnell more principled than Moore? Forget their background
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 03:51:24 pm
LOL!! Those women are still around and they haven't backed off their accusations.  Trump told you the way he acted toward women in the Access Hollywood tape, and you still won't believe him.

So why haven't they pursued those accusations in courts of law?  Inquiring minds want to know!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: ABX on November 14, 2017, 03:53:43 pm
So why haven't they pursued those accusations in courts of law?  Inquiring minds want to know!

Not to go too off topic, but many of the Trump accusers did pursue the accusations in court. Trump went after them with high priced lawyers and settled many, many cases to make them go away.

Just one example: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/exclusive-inside-the-donald-trump-sexual-assault-lawsuit/
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 03:55:48 pm
Not that difficult to find, and most of these are old listings and reviews, from 2013 and before. (yes, some jokers added a review in the past week but there are also reviews from 2011 and 2013)

https://www.mapquest.com/us/alabama/old-hickory-house-363661604
https://www.yelp.com/biz/old-hickory-house-gadsden?adjust_creative=bing&utm_campaign=yelp_feed&utm_medium=feed_v2&utm_source=bing

(http://atlanta-food-critic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/header-old-hickory-house-northlake-tucker-dekalb.jpg)
The sign on the front says celebrating 40 years. So it could be that old when the women say her was a regular for years.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: driftdiver on November 14, 2017, 04:01:24 pm
So why haven't they pursued those accusations in courts of law?  Inquiring minds want to know!

Depending on the source the best estimates are that only 34% to 50% of rapes/sexual assaults are reported to police.  Of those that are reported a very small percentage result in jail time.  Again depending on the source.

(https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Out_Of_1000_Rapes%20122016.png)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:03:09 pm
You're kidding.  It's identical. 

You're not defending Roy Moore, are you?  You believe his lame-assed response over these five women?
As a teenager, I was falsely accused of some serious threats (non-sexual) by five teenage girls. They all took back their accusations against me, and most apologized. Maybe that's why I have more of a tendency to give the accused the benefit of the doubt.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 04:03:59 pm
Depending on the source the best estimates are that only 34% to 50% of rapes/sexual assaults are reported to police.  Of those that are reported a very small percentage result in jail time.  Again depending on the source.

(https://www.rainn.org/sites/default/files/Out_Of_1000_Rapes%20122016.png)
So you go out of your way 40 years later to tarnish a person, because you don’t want to appear foolish?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 04:05:07 pm
Depending on the source the best estimates are that only 34% to 50% of rapes/sexual assaults are reported to police.  Of those that are reported a very small percentage result in jail time.  Again depending on the source.


And that proves what exactly with regard to what is being discussed here?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:06:44 pm
As a teenager, I was falsely accused of some serious threats (non-sexual) by five teenage girls. They all took back their accusations against me, and most apologized. Maybe that's why I have more of a tendency to give the accused the benefit of the doubt.

So you're saying your opinions on this Roy Moore matter are biased.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:10:06 pm
@INVAR

Moore had a reputation, too. 

To believe that all of these people are lying strains credulity.

I’m sorry you allow partisanship to color your objectivity.
A reputation that somehow only came out when it could do the most collateral damage to anyone who isn't a Democrat.

Moore was out of power in 2005. When he ran for his old seat again, they could have stopped him with this.

Moore was contending in a primary earlier this year. They could have stopped him with this and not handed the seat to a Democrat. The retaliation threat argument is bunk.

Do you mean to tell me that the Republican Party research team, containing some of the most notorious dirt-diggers in politics, is so inept that nobody on our side could see this?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: driftdiver on November 14, 2017, 04:10:11 pm
As a teenager, I was falsely accused of some serious threats (non-sexual) by five teenage girls. They all took back their accusations against me, and most apologized. Maybe that's why I have more of a tendency to give the accused the benefit of the doubt.

Put the accusations of these women aside.  He admits that as a 30+ year old man who held a position of power in the community he was chasing high school girls of 16 & 17 years old.   He admits that.  When asked if he 'dated' a 14 year old he deflected.   He didn't say "heck no".

He's a scum bag.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:10:36 pm
If they lose Congress it will be due to their doing jack shit that they promised their constituents for 7 years leading up to the last election and  acting like Democrats and supporting the Democrat agenda.  It's NOT going to be due the fact that the voters in Alabama elect Moore to represent them.

Virginia's House of Delegates is on the verge of flipping to Democrats because a large percentage of Democrats and Independents turned out to vote against Trump. 

Don't discount Moore as a factor in next year's elections, especially among women.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 04:13:05 pm
Put the accusations of these women aside.  He admits that as a 30+ year old man who held a position of power in the community he was chasing high school girls of 16 & 17 years old.   He admits that.  When asked if he 'dated' a 14 year old he deflected.   He didn't say "heck no".

He's a scum bag.

Based on nothing more than what you've read and seen on TEEVEE you Tired and convicted him!  Good Man! /S
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:13:36 pm
A reputation that somehow only came out when it could do the most collateral damage to anyone who isn't a Democrat.

Moore was out of power in 2005. When he ran for his old seat again, they could have stopped him with this.

Moore was contending in a primary earlier this year. They could have stopped him with this and not handed the seat to a Democrat. The retaliation threat argument is bunk.

Do you mean to tell me that the Republican Party research team, containing some of the most notorious dirt-diggers in politics, is so inept that nobody on our side could see this?

Perhaps Luther Strange didn't pay for oppo research on Moore.  It took a national media publication, with three reporters working for weeks on another story, to unearth these accusations. The women did not come forward on their own.  And, you can see, from reactions like yours, why they didn't.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:15:07 pm
Based on nothing more than what you've read and seen on TEEVEE you Tired and convicted him!  Good Man! /S

I believe the women.  You don't.  That's what this boils down to, Bigun. 

Do you believe the hundred women who accused Harvey Weinstein?  What about the dozen or so men who have accused Kevin Spacey? 

Why is this different?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:15:22 pm
Put the accusations of these women aside.  He admits that as a 30+ year old man who held a position of power in the community he was chasing high school girls of 16 & 17 years old.   He admits that.  When asked if he 'dated' a 14 year old he deflected.   He didn't say "heck no".
I'm pretty sure he did say he never even met the 14-year-old.

Furthermore, as I said before, the behavior in question abruptly stopped when he got married. That is not the sign of a sexual predator. That's the sign of a lack of dateable women his own age in Alabama. It's not like online dating existed at the time.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:15:48 pm
So you're saying your opinions on this Roy Moore matter are biased.
Aren't we all?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 04:17:57 pm
I believe the women.  You don't.  That's what this boils down to, Bigun. 

Do you believe the hundred women who accused Harvey Weinstein?  What about the dozen or so men who have accused Kevin Spacey? 

Why is this different?

I do not believe or disbelieve allegations!  I believe in PROOF! 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 14, 2017, 04:19:34 pm
Pure and simple Judge Moore is getting "Cained" as in Herman Cain.  Remember the alleged sexual misconduct he was accused of?

Remember how like this case Gloria Allred was involved as the attorney for one of the accusers?

If Judge More is forced out then you'll see this story and the accusers disappear just as fast as they did when Cain dropped out of the 2012 Presidential race...it will be "Mission Accomplished."

IMHO this is a dirty trick green lighted by McConnell because he's mad puppet Luther Strange didn't win the primary.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Fishrrman on November 14, 2017, 04:19:50 pm
Saw this a little while ago and found it interesting:

(https://image.ibb.co/nxtoSb/moore2.jpg)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:21:47 pm
I'm pretty sure he did say he never even met the 14-year-old.

Furthermore, as I said before, the behavior in question abruptly stopped when he got married. That is not the sign of a sexual predator. That's the sign of a lack of dateable women his own age in Alabama. It's not like online dating existed at the time.

So dating a teenager is acceptable if one decides there are no dateable women of one's own age?

How do you know the behavior stopped when he got married? 

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:22:24 pm
Pure and simple Judge Moore is getting "Cained" as in Herman Cain.  Remember the alleged sexual misconduct he was accused of?

Remember how like this case Gloria Allred was involved as the attorney for one of the accusers?

If Judge More is forced out then you'll see this story and the accusers disappear just as fast as they did when Cain dropped out of the 2012 Presidential race...it will be "Mission Accomplished."

IMHO this is a dirty trick green lighted by McConnell because he's mad puppet Luther Strange didn't win the primary.
I'll add that the Democrats have been more than willing to pile onto this. Note how we're fighting amongst ourselves, and a few people are throwing a guy under the bus that we can't afford to throw under the bus. What, give Murkowski and Collins even more power?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:23:00 pm
I do not believe or disbelieve allegations!  I believe in PROOF!

You're not going to get any more proof.  There are men serving time in prison today based on the word alone of women.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 04:23:43 pm
So dating a teenager is acceptable if one decides there are no dateable women of one's own age?

How do you know the behavior stopped when he got married?

How do you know it didn't? Or that it ever happened at all for that matter?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 04:24:36 pm
You're not going to get any more proof.  There are men serving time in prison today based on the word alone of women.

Yeah! and it SUCKS that that can happen in this once great nation!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 14, 2017, 04:24:37 pm
I'll add that the Democrats have been more than willing to pile onto this. Note how we're fighting amongst ourselves, and a few people are throwing a guy under the bus that we can't afford to throw under the bus. What, give Murkowski and Collins even more power?

Agreed.  We're eating our own and the Dems and establishment types are more than happy to sit back and :2popcorn: while Conservatives tear each other apart.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:28:00 pm
Saw this a little while ago and found it interesting:

(https://image.ibb.co/nxtoSb/moore2.jpg)

Here's a description of Thomas Wictor from Breitbart:

Quote
If you’re unfamiliar with Thomas Wictor, you’re missing a treat. He’s a Venezuelan-born recluse with a rich and varied past who, besides being the world’s greatest (and only) expert on World War I flamethrowers, also happens to produce some of the most fascinating Twitter threads and social media video commentary you will ever see on subjects ranging from Antifa to Pallywood to what’s really going on in Syria and Iraq.

Some of his output is so kooky and recondite that, quite possibly, it strays into the realm of conspiracy theory.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/24/delingpole-thomas-wictor-is-the-latest-victim-of-google-censorship/
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:29:08 pm
So dating a teenager is acceptable if one decides there are no dateable women of one's own age?

How do you know the behavior stopped when he got married?
The age of consent is 16 in Alabama, so yes. It's unseemly, but perfectly legal. Heck, how many songs are out there about hitting on 16, 17 year old girls? Neil Sedaka got rich on that kind of music; are we going to arrest him?

As for your second question, all of the accusations are from a very narrow time frame in the late 1970s. Not one of the many accusers has accused him of any impropriety after that time frame.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:29:36 pm
I'll add that the Democrats have been more than willing to pile onto this. Note how we're fighting amongst ourselves, and a few people are throwing a guy under the bus that we can't afford to throw under the bus. What, give Murkowski and Collins even more power?

Really?  The Democrats are mostly quiet.  They see the Republicans destroying themselves and are letting them do it.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Fishrrman on November 14, 2017, 04:31:02 pm
Saw this on TOS.
I -DID NOT- write it.
Take it for what it's worth:
================
It gets even weirder.
The picture that was put on the media was a grayscale photocopy.

It was gray scale for very good reason.

A color picture of the handwriting shows e writing was in two different color inks.

in black ink we have

“To a sweeter, more beautiful girl I could not say Merry Christmas.

“Merry Christmas”

Christmas 1977

Love,

Ray”

Written in blue ink is

“Moore D.A.

12-22-77

Olde Hickory Restaurant”

So the yearbook message was written by a guy named “Ray” and somebody added Roy Moore's last name, D.A. a date and Old Hickory Restaurant - in different hand writhing, neither of which matches Judge Moore's

By the way, the woman accusing Moore called him a “Ray” Moore , the first mane of the guy who actually wrote the phrase, not Roy Moore and Allred had to correct her in the press conference.

24 posted on 11/14/2017, 10:04:08 AM by rdcbn
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 14, 2017, 04:31:27 pm
Agreed.  We're eating our own and the Dems and establishment types are more than happy to sit back and :2popcorn: while Conservatives tear each other apart.

Conservatives are "tearing each other apart" because some conservatives are willing to defend the indefensible rather than demand this hypocrite step down, while there's still time.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:31:39 pm
The age of consent is 16 in Alabama, so yes. It's unseemly, but perfectly legal. Heck, how many songs are out there about hitting on 16, 17 year old girls? Neil Sedaka got rich on that kind of music; are we going to arrest him?

As for your second question, all of the accusations are from a very narrow time frame in the late 1970s. Not one of the many accusers has accused him of any impropriety after that time frame.

I'm not aware of any songs about 30 year old men hitting on teenagers.  You think Neil Sedaka was singing about himself?

We haven't heard from all the accusers.  And we likely won't.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 14, 2017, 04:32:44 pm
The age of consent is 16 in Alabama, so yes. It's unseemly, but perfectly legal. Heck, how many songs are out there about hitting on 16, 17 year old girls? Neil Sedaka got rich on that kind of music; are we going to arrest him?


And if the parents agree to sign over custody of their under 16 daughter to the adult she is marrying it can be even younger.

That's how I ended up with a 15 y/o sister-in-law at one point in my life living in Alabama.  My ex-wife's 20 year old brother married his now ex wife when she was 15...they'd been dating since he was 18.

Again very unseemly but perfectly legal and by the book in that state.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 14, 2017, 04:33:20 pm
Conservatives are "tearing each other apart" because some conservatives are willing to defend the indefensible rather than demand this hypocrite step down, while there's still time.

Spoken like a true Liberal.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 04:33:51 pm
Really?  Ole Mitch McConnell realizes we're at a turning point.  Weinstein, Spacey, Louis CK have demonstrated that women don't lie about these kinds of things, that they don't tell because of fear they won't be believed, and, as the reaction has demonstrated, they don't tell because of how they'll be treated by defenders.

If the Grand Old Pederast party wants to go into next year's elections defending Roy Moore, good luck with that.  Is losing Congress worth defending this unfit candidate?
I found it interesting that a bunch of Hollywood types were getting stuck to the wall over sexual coercion, but they had something to offer, and used the casting couch in a quid pro quo arrangement. THe very nature of that quid pro quo arrangement makes the accounts of those involved (and they are legion) credible. It is long established behaviour, a definite pattern, and was apparently well known in Hollywood. BTW, I thought Spacey was into boys?
While I consider all that improper (to put it mildly), Moore had just exactly what to hold out as incentive? He wasn't offering careers, he wasn't going to make anyone a 'star'. Attempts to create a 'longstanding pattern of behaviour' and a herd of 'victims' aren't working, at least with folks who aren't gullible, because those pushing the narrative have something to gain by doing so--the defeat of the Republican in the race. The Democrat (Liberal) paper who broke the story, who went looking for a story (not was contacted), at least one woman who is a democrat operative, the usual democrat-style hyperbole and distortion of fact that, when stripped away leaves a single accuser, oh wait, that didn't work, TWO! (classic double down).
Sorry, but the timing stinks on ice. NONE came forward in any of the other elections? Not even the primary? Talk about 11th hour!

It is a style of allegation which worked during the GOP primaries last year, though, accusations made (targeted for a regional audience) just before the election, dropped just after, with gobs of unnamed sources, or even National Enquirer articles, and now, we have a candidate who stood up to the GLBTQxyz lobby and upheld Alabama law. He even got in trouble for that. No wonder the heavily alphabetized crowd doesn't want him in DC! Who knows how many more Sex stories are there ready to burst in the place where real power is?

That's why I don't see the parallel,  considering that Hollywood (a notoriously liberal Democrat cesspit of debauchery)  has nothing at all to do with Moore, a Republican DA in Alabama. Worlds apart.

Mitch does realize we are at a turning point. He sees the GOPe losing power. Not to the Democrats, but the People. First, the GOPe candidates were swept from the primaries for POTUS, now this! The Horror.
Damnit, someone is trying to chase the critters out of the swamp! His swamp! He wanted Strange, and the stupid people of Alabama just wouldn't hand that to him, despite ten million dollars invested. They voted for that guy he didn't want. Now they are acting like Democrats trying to find a way around election results, and if they can't 'hang chad', then they'll hang Moore!

It's sad, but what the GOP does, it has already done it to itself. It's egregious failures to make credible efforts to fulfill the promises made when those dirtbags were elected makes them no better than the other party--and McConnell is at the head of that column.

I guess you always have the GLBTQxyz, 57 gender, if-it-feels-good-do-it Democrats you can run to if the GOPe country club doesn't have enough low-lifes to suit you.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:36:17 pm
Conservatives are "tearing each other apart" because some conservatives are willing to defend the indefensible rather than demand this hypocrite step down, while there's still time.
There is no time. The ballots are already printed. That's why the WaPo waited until now to drop the story.

Your solution is a non-solution. We're stuck with Moore at this point.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 04:40:19 pm
So you're saying your opinions on this Roy Moore matter are biased.
If believing in "innocent until proven guilty" is a bias, then it is the right one to have.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:42:09 pm
I found it interesting that a bunch of Hollywood types were getting stuck to the wall over sexual coercion, but they had something to offer, and used the casting couch in a quid pro quo arrangement. THe very nature of that quid pro quo arrangement makes the accounts of those involved (and they are legion) credible. It is long established behaviour, a definite pattern, and was apparently well known in Hollywood. BTW, I thought Spacey was into boys?
While I consider all that improper (to put it mildly), Moore had just exactly what to hold out as incentive? He wasn't offering careers, he wasn't going to make anyone a 'star'. Attempts to create a 'longstanding pattern of behaviour' and a herd of 'victims' aren't working, at least with folks who aren't gullible, because those pushing the narrative have something to gain by doing so--the defeat of the Republican in the race. The Democrat (Liberal) paper who broke the story, who went looking for a story (not was contacted), at least one woman who is a democrat operative, the usual democrat-style hyperbole and distortion of fact that, when stripped away leaves a single accuser, oh wait, that didn't work, TWO! (classic double down).
Sorry, but the timing stinks on ice. NONE came forward in any of the other elections? Not even the primary? Talk about 11th hour!

It is a style of allegation which worked during the GOP primaries last year, though, accusations made (targeted for a regional audience) just before the election, dropped just after, with gobs of unnamed sources, or even National Enquirer articles, and now, we have a candidate who stood up to the GLBTQxyz lobby and upheld Alabama law. He even got in trouble for that. No wonder the heavily alphabetized crowd doesn't want him in DC! Who knows how many more Sex stories are there ready to burst in the place where real power is?

That's why I don't see the parallel,  considering that Hollywood (a notoriously liberal Democrat cesspit of debauchery)  has nothing at all to do with Moore, a Republican DA in Alabama. Worlds apart.

Mitch does realize we are at a turning point. He sees the GOPe losing power. Not to the Democrats, but the People. First, the GOPe candidates were swept from the primaries for POTUS, now this! The Horror.
Damnit, someone is trying to chase the critters out of the swamp! His swamp! He wanted Strange, and the stupid people of Alabama just wouldn't hand that to him, despite ten million dollars invested. They voted for that guy he didn't want. Now they are acting like Democrats trying to find a way around election results, and if they can't 'hang chad', then they'll hang Moore!

It's sad, but what the GOP does, it has already done it to itself. It's egregious failures to make credible efforts to fulfill the promises made when those dirtbags were elected makes them no better than the other party--and McConnell is at the head of that column.

I guess you always have the GLBTQxyz, 57 gender, if-it-feels-good-do-it Democrats you can run to if the GOPe country club doesn't have enough low-lifes to suit you.

You either believe the women, or you don't.  I guess you don't.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 04:43:07 pm
If believing in "innocent until proven guilty" is a bias, then it is the right one to have.

Like I said, you either believe the women, or you don't.   You don't.  Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 04:43:13 pm
Perhaps Luther Strange didn't pay for oppo research on Moore.  It took a national media publication, with three reporters working for weeks on another story, to unearth these accusations. The women did not come forward on their own.  And, you can see, from reactions like yours, why they didn't.
The GOPe pumped 10 million into Strange's campaign. You can't tell me none of that went into opposition research and looking for dirt.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 04:43:57 pm
Like I said, you either believe the women, or you don't.   You don't.  Good luck with that.
Women are just as capable of lying as men are.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 04:46:15 pm
I believe the women.  You don't.  That's what this boils down to, Bigun. 

Do you believe the hundred women who accused Harvey Weinstein?  What about the dozen or so men who have accused Kevin Spacey? 

Why is this different?
Harvey could make them a star (or stop them from being one). Quid pro quo.
Spacey, ditto.
Moore had no such leverage nor enticement.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: ABX on November 14, 2017, 04:47:13 pm
The GOPe pumped 10 million into Strange's campaign. You can't tell me none of that went into opposition research and looking for dirt.

Maybe they did but Strange and/or the GOP decided they didn't want this to come out just in case he won. But that's why so many, including the likes of Cruz, are abandoning him so quickly versus assuming this is drummed up. They already knew this was out and probably have seen even more. They were hoping only they knew in the primary and it wouldn't be an issue..


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Restored on November 14, 2017, 04:48:23 pm
If he was a serial creeper, I would think there would be more recent examples of this behavior. This behavior usually doesn't abruptly end 40 years ago unless he had some kind of religious experience.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 04:52:53 pm
Maybe they did but Strange and/or the GOP decided they didn't want this to come out just in case he won. But that's why so many, including the likes of Cruz, are abandoning him so quickly versus assuming this is drummed up. They already knew this was out and probably have seen even more. They were hoping only they knew in the primary and it wouldn't be an issue..
Nice speculation, but I doubt it. They would have used it, because Strange wasn't polling with a clear margin. That was the time to drop that bomb if they had it.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: ABX on November 14, 2017, 04:54:35 pm
Nice speculation, but I doubt it. They would have used it, because Strange wasn't polling with a clear margin. That was the time to drop that bomb if they had it.

Republicans don't play those games in primaries against their own.

Even Jeff Sessions, who probably would know more than most being from that district, just came out in support of the accusers against Moore. That says a lot.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 04:57:03 pm
Stuff and Nonsense: Clarity on Judge Roy Moore

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2017/11/stuff_and_nonsense_clarity_on_judge_roy_moore_.html
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Restored on November 14, 2017, 04:58:47 pm
You either believe the women, or you don't.  I guess you don't.

Not exactly. It would be illogical to believe all of them unless you had some kind of proof that something happened. You may believe there is a possibility that their accounts are credible. The question is "Have you seen enough evidence to eliminate a candidate based on something that happened 40 years ago?".

The rape story sounds a little far-fetched considering it was wrapped in a partisan political wrapper. And these are convenient story-lines considering the current narrative today. We certainly elected Bill Clinton twice with a lot more evidence and the accounts were more recent. We could eliminate every Republican using these accounts. All the Dems have to do is generate them and we fling people under the bus. 

There are plenty of reasons to not support Roy Moore.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 04:59:27 pm
Republicans don't play those games in primaries against their own.

Even Jeff Sessions, who probably would know more than most being from that district, just came out in support of the accusers against Moore. That says a lot.

@AbaraXas

No! They don't expect their guy to lose! 

Show me the quote where Jeff Sessions did that?  I think your saying he did so is an outright lie!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 05:04:59 pm
Republicans don't play those games in primaries against their own.
Seven mistresses.
Anointed of God.
Stealing delegates.
Wife is an architect of NAFTA
Goldman Sachs
"Lyin'Ted"
Daddy killed JFK.
etc....
Say what? I can't hear you!
Quote
Even Jeff Sessions, who probably would know more than most being from that district, just came out in support of the accusers against Moore. That says a lot.

It says Sessions is a swamp dweller, too.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 14, 2017, 05:09:31 pm
Republicans don't play those games in primaries against their own.

Yes they do. See the last Senate races in Mississippi and Kentucky for proof of that.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Fishrrman on November 14, 2017, 05:12:36 pm
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/fake-analyst-says-judge-roy-moore-signature-inside-gloria-allred-accusers-yearbook-forged/

IT’S A FAKE! Analyst Says Judge Roy Moore Signature Inside Gloria Allred Accuser’s Yearbook Was FORGED
by Joshua Caplan

Known for his insightful take on politics, journalist and author Thomas Wictor believes Judge Roy Moore’s signature in Gloria Allred accuser Beverly Young Nelson’s yearbook is a forgery.

The sevens in 1977 to the right of “Christmas,” are very different from the sevens in the date (12-22-77) above “Old Hickory House.”

“Look at the two versions of the number “7,” tweeted Wictor.

“”12-22-77” and “Olde Hickory House” were written by a different person,” he added.

Next, Wictor points out “the “R” and “y” in “Roy,”” are not written the same way.

The inflection of the “Y” is more pronounced in Moore’ signature as Chief Justice. The “R” is noticeably longer in the  signature of Chief Justice, as well.

Poster's note:
I could not get the image displayed at the original article above to display here.
Go to the source URL above, and inspect it yourself...
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:13:37 pm
Quote
aubthor=Smokin Joe link=topic=290914.msg1514470#msg1514470 date=1510677793]
The GOPe pumped 10 million into Strange's campaign. You can't tell me none of that went into opposition research and looking for dirt.

The "dirt" on Moore that they found was that TWICE he refused to follow a ruling from an Appeals Court or the Supreme Court.  In other words, he disobeyed the law.  And for that he was booted off the Alabama Supreme Court.

That alone should have been enough to vote against Moore.  But, Alabama...........
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:17:11 pm
Women are just as capable of lying as men are.

Yes.

Five women, none of whom know each other, all with stories about Moore slagging on them as teenagers.  They're all lying.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:17:59 pm
Harvey could make them a star (or stop them from being one). Quid pro quo.
Spacey, ditto.
Moore had no such leverage nor enticement.

Moore's leverage was he was a DA and an adult who told one of the women "Nobody will believe you."
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:19:03 pm
If he was a serial creeper, I would think there would be more recent examples of this behavior. This behavior usually doesn't abruptly end 40 years ago unless he had some kind of religious experience.

Or his wife threatened to castrate him if he ever did it again.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 05:19:16 pm
The "dirt" on Moore that they found was that TWICE he refused to follow a ruling from an Appeals Court or the Supreme Court.  In other words, he disobeyed the law.  And for that he was booted off the Alabama Supreme Court.

That alone should have been enough to vote against Moore.  But, Alabama...........

No! He didn't disobey the law! He ignored an opinion of the court which had NO basis in law!

And an impeached federal judge now represents a Florida district in congress!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 05:19:23 pm
Yes.

Five women, none of whom know each other, all with stories about Moore slagging on them as teenagers.  They're all lying.
Like I said, it happened to me, it could happen to him.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 14, 2017, 05:19:40 pm
The "dirt" on Moore that they found was that TWICE he refused to follow a ruling from an Appeals Court or the Supreme Court.  In other words, he disobeyed the law.  And for that he was booted off the Alabama Supreme Court.

That alone should have been enough to vote against Moore.  But, Alabama...........

I know, those stupid rednecks are too stupid to be trusted to vote.

The Oligarchy should choose their rulers for them shouldn't they?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:20:37 pm
Not exactly. It would be illogical to believe all of them unless you had some kind of proof that something happened. You may believe there is a possibility that their accounts are credible. The question is "Have you seen enough evidence to eliminate a candidate based on something that happened 40 years ago?".

The rape story sounds a little far-fetched considering it was wrapped in a partisan political wrapper. And these are convenient story-lines considering the current narrative today. We certainly elected Bill Clinton twice with a lot more evidence and the accounts were more recent. We could eliminate every Republican using these accounts. All the Dems have to do is generate them and we fling people under the bus. 

There are plenty of reasons to not support Roy Moore.

Guess I'm not following.  There was no rape accusation.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2017, 05:21:38 pm
Moore's leverage was he was a DA and an adult who told one of the women "Nobody will believe you."

Deputy DA, Deputy DA and if his coworkers knew of this behavior as stated, maybe they would have prosecuted.

I've got to hear what these people from the mall actually said.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:21:52 pm
I know, those stupid rednecks are too stupid to be trusted to vote.

The Oligarchy should choose their rulers for them shouldn't they?

They're pretty damned stupid, yes.  Voting for a lawbreaker is not something I would do.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2017, 05:21:58 pm
Yes.

Five women, none of whom know each other, all with stories about Moore slagging on them as teenagers.  They're all lying.

And five women who waited 40 years to say this.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:23:19 pm
Deputy DA, Deputy DA and if his coworkers knew of this behavior as stated, maybe they would have prosecuted.

I've got to hear what these people from the mall actually said.

Quibbling.

But his coworkers didn't know of this behavior, did they? 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 14, 2017, 05:23:46 pm
There is no time. The ballots are already printed. That's why the WaPo waited until now to drop the story.

Your solution is a non-solution. We're stuck with Moore at this point.

Not true.  This is a special election.   The governor can move to postpone it,  on the basis of there being no GOP nominee.   

Now I understand that Alabama's governor has said she will not act.  That makes sense, and is to be expected,  while Moore is still in the race.   She can't fail to back the nominee.   But if Moore steps down,  the way will be clear to postpone a special election where the majority party has no nominee. 

That's why so many are demanding that Moore step down now, while there's still time.   The charges were meticulously researched and corroborated,  and Moore himself has been dissembling in denying/not denying him.   This isn't the crap they flung at Cruz in the National Enquirer.   This is credible and creepy stuff.   

Moore wants to play the martyr,  and there are some who'll stick by him on the basis of he may be a perv, but he's our perv.   But real social conservatives and men of Christ - like our own @driftdiver - know the man's a scumbag and needs to go.   Real social conservatives and men of Christ won't defend the indefensible.   Why?  Because ultimately their own credibility and sincerity is at stake.   

Me?   Sure, I'm biased - everyone knows I'm no social conservative and can't stand the man.   But this is one of those situations where rejecting this hypocrite is simply the right thing to do -  for Republicans and Christians of ALL stripes.       
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 14, 2017, 05:24:03 pm
@DiogenesLamp

You’re ignorant of the issues women deal with after being victimized as Moore victimized those girls, especially at such a young age, so I’ll let you blame the kids for being leched after. 

There’s a moral issue with Moore’s behavior now, though.  If this is all true, he is still denying everything, in effect saying all of these people are liars, while he’s the one doing the lying.  That’s a man with no character. 

I really wonder what would have happened if he had come clean to his voters and thrown himself on their mercy.  Things might look very different right now.

The Moore accuser Leigh Corfman who says she was 14 when Moore assaulted her, is also known as a serial accuser and financial grifter. Not particularly credible.

Deb Wesson Gibson is a Dem party hacktivist who supports Moore's opponent and has spewed hate against Moore on her FB. Not particularly credible.

Wendy Miller claims that Moore asked her mother if he could date her while she was underage. Nothing more beyond the accusation. Not particularly credible.

Gloria Deason was 18 when they went out, but claims he bought her alcohol when she was 18 and the drinking age was 19. How convenient. Not particularly credible.

The latest accuser Beverly Young Nelson says she is a Trump supporter, but her voter registration is inactive. That already draws her testimony under suspecion. Other parts of her story are in question.

The 'hanging around the mall' story is all second hand rumor. No one involved directly seems to cooberate.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:24:33 pm
And five women who waited 40 years to say this.

Look at how they're being trashed now!  Their treatment would have been ten times worse 40 years ago.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 14, 2017, 05:25:36 pm
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/fake-analyst-says-judge-roy-moore-signature-inside-gloria-allred-accusers-yearbook-forged/

IT’S A FAKE! Analyst Says Judge Roy Moore Signature Inside Gloria Allred Accuser’s Yearbook Was FORGED
by Joshua Caplan

Known for his insightful take on politics, journalist and author Thomas Wictor believes Judge Roy Moore’s signature in Gloria Allred accuser Beverly Young Nelson’s yearbook is a forgery.

The sevens in 1977 to the right of “Christmas,” are very different from the sevens in the date (12-22-77) above “Old Hickory House.”

“Look at the two versions of the number “7,” tweeted Wictor.

“”12-22-77” and “Olde Hickory House” were written by a different person,” he added.

Next, Wictor points out “the “R” and “y” in “Roy,”” are not written the same way.

The inflection of the “Y” is more pronounced in Moore’ signature as Chief Justice. The “R” is noticeably longer in the  signature of Chief Justice, as well.

Poster's note:
I could not get the image displayed at the original article above to display here.
Go to the source URL above, and inspect it yourself...

I read the article, I agree it looks like a fake.

At this point, they need a real handwriting expert, this guy doesn't seem exactly that but he points out a lot of suspicious elements, if the signature is a fake, there is a good chance, 70% or all of the rest is largely fake too.

We need to hear from those mall cops, this part of the story.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 14, 2017, 05:26:23 pm
So dating a teenager is acceptable if one decides there are no dateable women of one's own age?

How do you know the behavior stopped when he got married?
Parsing words and making assumptions. Just like the Clintoons.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 14, 2017, 05:29:04 pm
Not true.  This is a special election.   The governor can move to postpone it,  on the basis of there being no GOP nominee.   

Now I understand that Alabama's governor has said she will not act.  But that makes sense while Moore is still in the race.   She can't fail to back the nominee.   But if Moore steps down,  the way will be clear to prevent an election where the majority party has no nominee. 

That's why so many are demanding that Moore step down now, while there's still time.   The charges were meticulously researched and corroborated,  and Moore himself has been dissembling in denying/not denying him.   This isn't the crap they flung at Cruz in the National Enquirer.   This is credible and creepy stuff.   

Moore wants to play the martyr,  and there are some who'll stick by him on the basis of he may be a perv, but he's our perv.   But real social conservatives and men of Christ - like our own driftdiver - know the man's a scumbag and needs to go.   Real social conservatives and men of Christ won't defend the indefensible.   Why?  Because ultimately their own credibility and sincerity is at stake.   

Me?   Sure, I'm biased - everyone knows I'm no social conservative and can't stand the man.   But this is one of those situations where rejecting this hypocrite is simply the right thing to do -  for Republicans and Christians of ALL stripes.       

"Meticulously researched' by a WaPo reporter with a criminal record who has done other hit jobs on Republicans, working for a media org that's more or less the propaganda organ for the DNC.

The Moore accuser Leigh Corfman who says she was 14 when Moore assaulted her, is also known as a serial accuser and financial grifter. Not particularly credible.

Deb Wesson Gibson is a Dem party hacktivist who supports Moore's opponent and has spewed hate against Moore on her FB. Not particularly credible.

Wendy Miller claims that Moore asked her mother if he could date her while she was underage. Nothing more beyond the accusation. Not particularly credible.

Gloria Deason was 18 when they went out, but claims he bought her alcohol when she was 18 and the drinking age was 19. How convenient. Not particularly credible.

The latest accuser Beverly Young Nelson says she is a Trump supporter, but her voter registration is inactive. That already draws her testimony under suspecion. Other parts of her story are in question.

The 'hanging around the mall' story is all second hand rumor. No one involved directly seems to cooberate.

The Alabama governor won't act because there is no room in the law to do so.

You have a very hypocritical definition of creepy considering your avid support of the LGBTQ deviancy lobby and calling anyone a bigot who disagrees with them. Yet you judge someone who dates anyone that's too far in age from them as a perv.

You're just bigoted and biased and want Moore to go down for your own political agenda, using convenient excuses to justify it.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 14, 2017, 05:31:31 pm
Look at how they're being trashed now!  Their treatment would have been ten times worse 40 years ago.

They're being trashed because their stories don't hold up, and their motivations are suspect.

Do you feel that anyone should be able to make accusations and that's the final word?

Because I'm feeling you might be a murderer and a rapist...
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 05:32:06 pm
A reputation that somehow only came out when it could do the most collateral damage to anyone who isn't a Democrat.

Moore was out of power in 2005. When he ran for his old seat again, they could have stopped him with this.

Moore was contending in a primary earlier this year. They could have stopped him with this and not handed the seat to a Democrat. The retaliation threat argument is bunk.

Do you mean to tell me that the Republican Party research team, containing some of the most notorious dirt-diggers in politics, is so inept that nobody on our side could see this?

@jmyrlefuller

Yeah, I’d say Republicans are abysmally inept, and in more ways than one.

The timing doesn’t mean the allegations aren’t true.  What decided me was the accounts of people who knew him and worked with him back then, including the newspaper blurb from 2002. 

Look, I agree that women can and do lie sometimes about this kind of thing.  I knew the defendants in the Duke rape case were innocent, and I was sure the Rolling Stone/UVA case was a fake.  Both of those women should have been prosecuted.

But it’s irrational to assume that all women lie and it never happens.  That’s why you stand back and wait to see what develops.  If all of the people involved here are lying, it’s the biggest and most well-executed conspiracy I’ve ever seen.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:33:21 pm
The Moore accuser Leigh Corfman who says she was 14 when Moore assaulted her, is also known as a serial accuser and financial grifter. Not particularly credible.

Name one other person she's accused. Not a grifter, but did have financial difficulties, probably due to to her treatment.  She was also married three times and had three bankruptcies, just like Donald J. Trump.

Quote
Deb Wesson Gibson is a Dem party hacktivist who supports Moore's opponent and has spewed hate against Moore on her FB. Not particularly credible.
Signing for the deaf at a Democrat event because she owned a signing company is not being an "activist."   Not seen her FB page.

Quote
Wendy Miller claims that Moore asked her mother if he could date her while she was underage. Nothing more beyond the accusation. Not particularly credible.

Other than a 32 year old man dating her. Nothing creepy there.

Quote
Gloria Deason was 18 when they went out, but claims he bought her alcohol when she was 18 and the drinking age was 19. How convenient. Not particularly credible.

Given that other women accused him of plying them with alcohol, this is very credible.

Quote
The latest accuser Beverly Young Nelson says she is a Trump supporter, but her voter registration is inactive. That already draws her testimony under suspecion. Other parts of her story are in question.

This is risible. She said she voted for Trump.  There are no other parts of her story that are in question.

Quote
The 'hanging around the mall' story is all second hand rumor. No one involved directly seems to cooberate.

He was banned from the Gadsden mall.  That is corroborated by several people in this story:

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/gadsden_residents_say_moores_b.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 14, 2017, 05:35:22 pm
The establishment has been doing this crap since they destroyed George Allen's presidential dreams many years ago and they aren't going to stop until WE stop them!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:36:12 pm
They're being trashed because their stories don't hold up, and their motivations are suspect.

Do you feel that anyone should be able to make accusations and that's the final word?

Because I'm feeling you might be a murderer and a rapist...
They're being trashed by Alabamans and GOP partisans who value a Senate seat above the character of the person who holds it.

Almost no one outside of Alabama and these partisans doubts their stories.  He has no endorsements remaining in the Senate and those in the House are falling like flies.

You either believe the women or you don't.  This is a political,not a legal matter. Moore will never go to jail, but he should never go the Senate either.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 05:36:38 pm
Saw this on TOS.
I -DID NOT- write it.
Take it for what it's worth:
================
It gets even weirder.
The picture that was put on the media was a grayscale photocopy.

It was gray scale for very good reason.

A color picture of the handwriting shows e writing was in two different color inks.

in black ink we have

“To a sweeter, more beautiful girl I could not say Merry Christmas.

“Merry Christmas”

Christmas 1977

Love,

Ray”

Written in blue ink is

“Moore D.A.

12-22-77

Olde Hickory Restaurant”

So the yearbook message was written by a guy named “Ray” and somebody added Roy Moore's last name, D.A. a date and Old Hickory Restaurant - in different hand writhing, neither of which matches Judge Moore's

By the way, the woman accusing Moore called him a “Ray” Moore , the first mane of the guy who actually wrote the phrase, not Roy Moore and Allred had to correct her in the press conference.

24 posted on 11/14/2017, 10:04:08 AM by rdcbn

@Fishrrman

Yeah, TOS is definitely a reasonable source.  Has Butterdezillion weighed in yet?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 14, 2017, 05:42:01 pm
The "dirt" on Moore that they found was that TWICE he refused to follow a ruling from an Appeals Court or the Supreme Court.  In other words, he disobeyed the law.  And for that he was booted off the Alabama Supreme Court.

That alone should have been enough to vote against Moore.  But, Alabama...........

@sinkspur

It has zero to do with being Southern.  If we’re going to get into regional issues, I could go on all day about the influx of sophisticated Northeastern liberals infecting my state.  But that’s a thread hinack, so.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 14, 2017, 05:45:34 pm
Name one other person she's accused. Not a grifter, but did have financial difficulties, probably due to to her treatment.  She was also married three times and had three bankruptcies, just like Donald J. Trump.

Several pastors. She has a reputation. No more or less credible than the 'Roy Moore hanging around the mall' set of rumors.

http://www.bizpacreview.com/2017/11/11/big-questions-now-arising-roy-moores-main-accuser-leah-corfman-560877

Quote
Signing for the deaf at a Democrat event because she owned a signing company is not being an "activist."   Not seen her FB page.

https://www.teaparty.org/judge-roy-moore-accuser-caught-scrubbing-anti-moore-anti-trump-postings-facebook-page-276820/

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/uh-oh-wapo-failed-disclose-roy-moore-accuser-worked-sign-language-interpreter-hillary-biden-openly-supports-doug-jones/
Quote
Other than a 32 year old man dating her. Nothing creepy there.

My grandparents were 12 years apart. Many young women dated and married men older than them. It's not uncommon, especially in the South, and in those days.
Quote
Given that other women accused him of plying them with alcohol, this is very credible.

Who exactly, and their ages?

Quote
This is risible. She said she voted for Trump.  There are no other parts of her story that are in question.

She said she 'supported' Trump. She didn't vote for him because her registration is inactive, which happens when you don't vote. The 'supported Trump' was a red herring to distract.

Quote
He was banned from the Gadsden mall.  That is corroborated by several people in this story:

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/gadsden_residents_say_moores_b.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

All of which were second hand rumors, not the people directly involved. If you want to believe those rumors as credible, then the rumors about the questionable claims of the accusers is credible too.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: aligncare on November 14, 2017, 05:47:47 pm
Five women, 30 sources, Moore's admission he dated teenagers with their mother's permission.

Then, there's this:
Quote

Roy Moore's penchant for flirting with teen girls was "common knowledge" and "not a big secret" around Gadsden, according to some area residents.[/quote)

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/gadsden_residents_say_moores_b.html#incart_river_mobileshort_home

Hey there, sinky. Nice to see you posting. Hope you’re doing well.

Okay, now that the pleasantries are out of the way, draw your sword and prepare yourself to be skewered  :sword:

I haven’t forgotten your support of Dewhurst over Cruz, or your attacks on candidate Trump!

Don’t worry, I’ll go easy on you. Just a nick here and there...

Kidding aside, looking forward to hearing your point of view on these pressing political matters.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:48:21 pm
@sinkspur

It has zero to do with being Southern.  If we’re going to get into regional issues, I could go on all day about the influx of sophisticated Northeastern liberals infecting my state.  But that’s a thread hinack, so.

I didn't say Southern.  I said Alabama.

It's a weird voting populace.  They voted in an old man as governor--Bentley--who was considered a Godly man, a good man. 

They turned against him when tapes unearthed of him talking dirty to his secretary and evidence emerged of an affair.  He was forced to resign.

So, in Alabama, adultery is worthy of depriving a governor of his office, but sexual abuse of a child is worth elevating a candidate to the US Senate.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 14, 2017, 05:49:31 pm
They're being trashed by Alabamans and GOP partisans who value a Senate seat above the character of the person who holds it.

Almost no one outside of Alabama and these partisans doubts their stories.  He has no endorsements remaining in the Senate and those in the House are falling like flies.

You either believe the women or you don't.  This is a political,not a legal matter. Moore will never go to jail, but he should never go the Senate either.

So you're falling back on the bandwagon fallacy, and transitioning to false dichotomy and the red herring double bonus score as your source of logic?

You realize you just admitted that these are nothing but rumors and salacious accustions, but we should just run with it because it's political and not legal?

Got it. Getting kind of smoky and mirrory in here.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 05:52:56 pm
Not true.  This is a special election.   The governor can move to postpone it,  on the basis of there being no GOP nominee.
Actually, the Governor can't, because primary and runoff have already been held. The ballots are already printed and I suspect the absentee ballots have already been sent out. You can't change an election timetable in the middle of the election, and besides, Alabama law expressly states that there is no way for a candidate to be taken off the ballot, even if he or she is dead. If "Vacant Seat" wins, "Vacant Seat" takes the Senate, and we have to go through this process all over again.

There are only two potential ways to salvage this fiasco at this point. One is the unlikely scenario of a write-in nominee finishing in the top two and forcing a runoff. At this point, it'd be too late to build the kind of organization to realistically pull that off. The other would be the unprecedented move for Jeff Sessions to rescind his resignation and return to the Senate for the remainder of his term, thus negating the purpose for the election and forcing its cancellation. It's not even clear if he can do that.

Quote
Now I understand that Alabama's governor has said she will not act.  That makes sense, and is to be expected,  while Moore is still in the race.   She can't fail to back the nominee.   But if Moore steps down,  the way will be clear to postpone a special election where the majority party has no nominee. 

That's why so many are demanding that Moore step down now, while there's still time.   The charges were meticulously researched and corroborated,  and Moore himself has been dissembling in denying/not denying him.   This isn't the crap they flung at Cruz in the National Enquirer.   This is credible and creepy stuff.   

Moore wants to play the martyr,  and there are some who'll stick by him on the basis of he may be a perv, but he's our perv.   But real social conservatives and men of Christ - like our own @driftdiver - know the man's a scumbag and needs to go.   Real social conservatives and men of Christ won't defend the indefensible.   Why?  Because ultimately their own credibility and sincerity is at stake.   

Me?   Sure, I'm biased - everyone knows I'm no social conservative and can't stand the man.   But this is one of those situations where rejecting this hypocrite is simply the right thing to do -  for Republicans and Christians of ALL stripes.       
I get it. In an ideal world, this wouldn't have happened—but for the time being, as I've stated, all other options are off the table.

We are stuck between two choices, Roy Moore and the Democrat.

The Democrat will take the seat for the next three years, pushing them one seat closer to a majority. Already, McCain, Collins and Murkowski have made it impossible to pass a conservative agenda, and that will give this rump caucus even further power to thwart any attempts to, for example, stop Obamacare. That's not even to say what might happen in 2018: Republicans SHOULD have a field advantage after getting their butts kicked in 2006 and 2012, but they should have had that advantage in 2012, too. Yet this crap happened then, too.

Roy Moore will at least keep the balance of power in the Senate as is, whether he is seated or not.

Sometimes, we have to accept the unpalatable to avoid the unacceptable. A Democrat majority is not acceptable. We saw what they did the last time: economic collapse and the rise of Obamaism.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:53:47 pm
Several pastors. She has a reputation. No more or less credible than the 'Roy Moore hanging around the mall' set of rumors.

LOL! From your source:

Quote
Posts on Moore's FB page indicate that Corfman, has claimed several pastors at various churches made sexual advances at her.

So ROY MOORE, on HIS OWN FB PAGE, claims several pastors (whom he does not name) made these claims.  Talk about ridiculous!

You're really stretching here, friend.


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: sinkspur on November 14, 2017, 05:55:48 pm
So you're falling back on the bandwagon fallacy, and transitioning to false dichotomy and the red herring double bonus score as your source of logic?

You realize you just admitted that these are nothing but rumors and salacious accustions, but we should just run with it because it's political and not legal?

Got it. Getting kind of smoky and mirrory in here.

I believe the women.  You don't.  Go with that.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: ExFreeper on November 14, 2017, 06:00:07 pm

(https://s.faketrumptweet.com/j9zx3doz_1nnwujf_qpaszs.png)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 06:05:38 pm
I believe the women.  You don't.  Go with that.
Why do you believe them? There are plenty of reasons not to believe them. What reasons are there to assume good faith in this kind of circumstance?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 14, 2017, 06:08:59 pm
I believe the women.  You don't.  Go with that.

Based on what?  Especially since we know at least one does business for the DNC.

Judge Moore has run for office plenty of times in the past...why is this just now coming out?

How is it that the WaPo just happened upon four women that didn't know each other before this story broke?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 14, 2017, 06:15:36 pm
Based on what?  Especially since we know at least one does business for the DNC.

Judge Moore has run for office plenty of times in the past...why is this just now coming out?

How is it that the WaPo just happened upon four women that didn't know each other before this story broke?
And how is it that in that kind of community that these four women didn't at least know of each other?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 14, 2017, 06:31:09 pm
LOL! From your source:

So ROY MOORE, on HIS OWN FB PAGE, claims several pastors (whom he does not name) made these claims.  Talk about ridiculous!

You're really stretching here, friend.

Your rumors are no better than my rumors bud.

That's the double edged sword of the rumor game.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 06:52:07 pm
@INVAR

Moore had a reputation, too. 

To believe that all of these people are lying strains credulity.

I’m sorry you allow partisanship to color your objectivity.

LOL! @INVAR may be a lot of things, @CatherineofAragon , but Republican partisan is certainly not one of them, as anyone who reads him can plainly see.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 14, 2017, 07:04:33 pm
Why do you believe them? There are plenty of reasons not to believe them. What reasons are there to assume good faith in this kind of circumstance?

He believes them because he wants to believe them.  He needs to believe them in order to affirm his own emotion-based opinion of the Trump/Moore boogeyman.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 07:24:02 pm
If believing in "innocent until proven guilty" is a bias, then it is the right one to have.

That's right. And especially so when looking at someone with an exemplary and honorable record forty years long.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: driftdiver on November 14, 2017, 07:27:33 pm
That's right. And especially so when looking at someone with an exemplary and honorable record forty years long.

@roamer_1
If he was leching on young kids then his 40 yr record isn't quite so honorable nor exemplary. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 14, 2017, 07:29:57 pm
If he was leching on young kids then his 40 yr record isn't quite so honorable nor exemplary.

Where is there allegation and proof that is not 40 years old?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 07:30:52 pm
The GOPe pumped 10 million into Strange's campaign. You can't tell me none of that went into opposition research and looking for dirt.

How is this dirt so hard to find? After all, it's a 'commonly known secret'...
Gee, I guess it takes New York City professionals to get these gap-toothed hicks to tell all....
Because gap-toothed hicks are SO noted for giving up secrets to strangers.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: driftdiver on November 14, 2017, 07:36:07 pm
Where is there allegation and proof that is not 40 years old?

He's admitted to chasing high school age girls when he was in his mid 30s.   He's a predator chasing after young innocent girls who are easy to control.  Did he rape any?  Dunno we really dont have any evidence but it really doesn't matter at this point.

He has shown himself to be other then what he professed.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 14, 2017, 07:37:00 pm
He's admitted to chasing high school age girls when he was in his mid 30s.   He's a predator chasing after young innocent girls who are easy to control.  Did he rape any?  Dunno we really dont have any evidence but it really doesn't matter at this point.

He has shown himself to be other then what he professed.

Link to a quote of him saying that?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 07:40:55 pm
Quibbling.

But his coworkers didn't know of this behavior, did they?

How can THAT be? It was an 'open secret' EVERYBODY knew. /s
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 14, 2017, 07:45:46 pm
He's admitted to chasing high school age girls when he was in his mid 30s.   

So?

My grandfather was 28 years older than my grandmother whom he married when she was 18 and he was 46.   It was a match approved by her parents - because they wanted her to marry someone established with property and a record of trust.  Back then, it was a common practice.  But then, parents were very much involved in those decisions unlike today.

He's a predator chasing after young innocent girls who are easy to control.  Did he rape any?  Dunno we really dont have any evidence but it really doesn't matter at this point.

Proof he has done this in the last 40 years and since he got married?  You accuse him of being a 'predator'. Where is your proof - or is gossip enough to convict for you?

He has shown himself to be other then what he professed.

I'll let the voters of Alabama make that decision.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 07:54:28 pm

So, in Alabama, adultery is worthy of depriving a governor of his office, but sexual abuse of a child is worth elevating a candidate to the US Senate.

You know the difference?

EVIDENCE!

I'll turn on Moore too - All you need is real and incontrovertible EVIDENCE.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: SirLinksALot on November 14, 2017, 07:57:11 pm
Princess Diana married Charles when she was just 20 and he was close to 34.

Question: Did they date before that? If so, why was there no outcry about a 30 something adult dating a teenager?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 14, 2017, 07:59:09 pm
@roamer_1
If he was leching on young kids then his 40 yr record isn't quite so honorable nor exemplary.

Fine. PROVE IT.
Gimme a blue dress. Gimme a bastard kid. Gimme a lurid vid or audio recording.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 14, 2017, 08:04:01 pm
Fine. PROVE IT.
Gimme a blue dress. Gimme a bastard kid. Gimme a lurid vid or audio recording.

Exactly.

No more Herman Cain hit jobs.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 09:55:46 pm
The "dirt" on Moore that they found was that TWICE he refused to follow a ruling from an Appeals Court or the Supreme Court.  In other words, he disobeyed the law.  And for that he was booted off the Alabama Supreme Court.

That alone should have been enough to vote against Moore.  But, Alabama...........
Those rulings were contrary to the Alabama Constitution. Tenth Amendment applies.


From http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/01/alabama_chief_justice_roy_moor_1.html (http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/01/alabama_chief_justice_roy_moor_1.html)
Quote
Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore has released a letter to Gov. Robert Bentley saying that he intends to continue to recognize the state's constitutional ban on same-sex marriage and urging the governor to do so.

and
from http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/judge-roy-moore-the-law-is-very-clear/ (http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/judge-roy-moore-the-law-is-very-clear/)
Quote
Thomas, who was joined by Justice Antonin Scalia, pointed out that the justices essentially were admitting what they would decide, even before arguments, expected in April, are heard in a pending dispute over same-sex marriage.

In that case, the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed measures in four states defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman. Other appeals courts had struck down traditional-marriage measures, setting up a conflict.

Thomas said the Monday decision “may well be seen as a signal of the court’s intended resolution.”

Moore sent a memoradum to the state’s 68 probate judges and others in the state judiciary that said they are not bound, according to federal court precedent, to follow the federal judge’s order. Moore argued the state constitution excludes same-sex duos from marriage, and Alabama Gov. Robert Bentley would be the executive who would decide if penalties should be applied to anyone who violates the state constitution.

Instead, the arguments which many here might make are to be found elsewhere, too: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/28/1702478/-The-un-American-Roy-Moore-is-unfit-for-office-and-not-a-single-Republican-is-speaking-up (https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/9/28/1702478/-The-un-American-Roy-Moore-is-unfit-for-office-and-not-a-single-Republican-is-speaking-up)

As the buffalo said, "Let the chips fall where they may."
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 09:58:31 pm
He's admitted to chasing high school age girls when he was in his mid 30s.   He's a predator chasing after young innocent girls who are easy to control.  Did he rape any?  Dunno we really dont have any evidence but it really doesn't matter at this point.

He has shown himself to be other then what he professed.
"Innocent young girls?" Juniors or Seniors in High School? Apparently you never overheard any conversations. (And my 40 year HS 'reunion' is history.)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 10:02:41 pm
Link to a quote of him saying that?
If you read what the guy said, it doesn't matter if he did something criminal. No evidence needed. Red Queen jurisprudence demands, "Off with his head!" So much for the political rabbit hole.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 14, 2017, 10:25:08 pm
@roamer_1
If he was leching on young kids then his 40 yr record isn't quite so honorable nor exemplary.
Then there should be an avalanche of information that he was letching on young kids.

The descriptions, even of the allegations being made, are of young ladies above the age of consent, which are hardly "young kids" except from the most geriatric perspective. "Teenager" takes in an age group old enough to consent, vote, enter into contractual arrangements, and enter the military. In order for someone to be "underage" in Alabama, then AND now, they have to be younger than 16. Only one accuser passes muster on that age basis, and that would require that she be telling the truth about all else.

When the hyperbole (which you are repeating) failed to gain traction, then suddenly he's allegedly parking and groping behind the misspelled restaurant and autographing yearbooks in awkward phraseology in December with curiously differing number 7s in the dates. In Democrat parlance, that's known as "doubling down", so the whole set of allegations, which are pumped up with alleged encounters with girls past the age of consent (with parental permission, even encouragement) in which no 'bad touches' are even alleged, just don't pass muster, and especially don't rise to a call for summary judgement.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 12:53:22 am
Where is there allegation and proof that is not 40 years old?

@INVAR

Why do y'all keep demanding proof when a) you know it won't be coming and b) we aren't in court, so we don't need proof?  I sound like a parrot with that line, but it's conveniently ignored every time.

Were you waiting for proof before you believed Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick (sp)?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 12:56:49 am
Princess Diana married Charles when she was just 20 and he was close to 34.

Question: Did they date before that? If so, why was there no outcry about a 30 something adult dating a teenager?

@SirLinksALot

Charles wasn't hanging out at the Spencer family estate, badgering Diana like a creep until he got thrown off the grounds. He wasn't going to places where teenagers get together so he could have his pick.

That, my friend, is the behavior of a creep. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 12:58:10 am
Fine. PROVE IT.
Gimme a blue dress. Gimme a bastard kid. Gimme a lurid vid or audio recording.

@roamer_1

Not gonna happen.  Either Moore is lying, or all of these other people are.  What mystifies me is why some of us think Moore's character is so unquestionably pure that it can't be him.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 15, 2017, 01:04:25 am
@roamer_1

Not gonna happen.  Either Moore is lying, or all of these other people are.  What mystifies me is why some of us think Moore's character is so unquestionably pure that it can't be him.
What mystifies me is why so many are calling for a head on a pike with no more than newspaper hype.

Shopping at the one Mall in town would be like being accused of 'creeping' the local Walmart here. Where are you going to go? In a dry county, you can't even go check out the barflies.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 15, 2017, 01:10:51 am
@roamer_1

Not gonna happen.  Either Moore is lying, or all of these other people are.  What mystifies me is why some of us think Moore's character is so unquestionably pure that it can't be him.

@CatherineofAragon
Where I come from a man's honor means something.
A man without honor is destroyed.

Thus it takes real proof to tear it down, and especially so, when so longstanding, and in a man willing to go to the wall (more than once) for what he believes in... Integrity of that kind is not manufactured.

I'll throw him out, sure enough, and in a minute flat... But that minute will never come without real and incontrovertible proof. I would expect as much from men if I was falsely accused.

What matters is the veracity of the evidence and not the seriousness of the crime.
As used to ALWAYS be the test, and still the same for me.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 01:14:01 am
The hell he isn't on trial, it's trial by Media.

It is as common as cat crap in a litter box nowadays, and even here, half a dozen of you are calling for him to surrender a hard fought candidacy over allegations.

That, considering the effort, etc. put forth to get that far would represent being deprived of something he has worked for without due process of law. It's the same sort of character assassination carried out against another candidate, and as I said, if the charges have merit--IF, then he should step down--and IF he knowingly groped some girl younger than the age of consent or against her will, then produce the evidence and at least give the man a chance to be exonerated.

This sort of smear reeks of seven mistresses and daddy killing JFK. It has that same stink to it. 

I'm not sure how fast malls went up in Alabama, but I grew up 50 miles from Washington DC and knew of one by 1974. I really doubt there were multiple malls in a town in Alabama in 1977, or that Moore--or anyone else-- had a reputation built for 'cruising for young girls' in malls there in 1977. There might have been one in town.


What has me floored, though, aside from a couple of usual suspects, is the absolute determination some on this board have to hang this guy.

@Smokin Joe

Well, that last is more overwrought than accurate, but I believe he's a creep and a predator and shouldn't be rewarded with a senate seat.  It's up to the people in Alabama, naturally, but that's my opinion.  Determined?  I can't vote there so that descriptor doesn't apply. 

Moore is on trial in the public sphere, no different from any other politician, but you can't apply legal rules and you know that.  You also know you aren't going to get any more evidence that you have now, and I think it's safe to say you weren't calling for it when Clinton's women accused him.

"Something he has worked for?"  Seriously?  He isn't entitled to a Senate seat.  Listen, Joe, the guy is assassinating his own character.  His defense has been pretty lousy, and he's doing the same thing Trump did---making empty pronouncements about suing when he knows he's going to do no such thing.  He could have filed a suit by now--why hasn't he?

By the way, I haven't called for him to step down...not that I remember, anyway.  I'm watching it all play out.



Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 01:15:58 am
Not to go too off topic, but many of the Trump accusers did pursue the accusations in court. Trump went after them with high priced lawyers and settled many, many cases to make them go away.

Just one example: https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/exclusive-inside-the-donald-trump-sexual-assault-lawsuit/

@AbaraXas

Interesting.  I wasn't aware of that.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 01:23:17 am
@CatherineofAragon
Where I come from a man's honor means something.
A man without honor is destroyed.

Thus it takes real proof to tear it down, and especially so, when so longstanding, and in a man willing to go to the wall (more than once) for what he believes in... Integrity of that kind is not manufactured.

I'll throw him out, sure enough, and in a minute flat... But that minute will never come without real and incontrovertible proof. I would expect as much from men if I was falsely accused.

What matters is the veracity of the evidence and not the seriousness of the crime.
As used to ALWAYS be the test, and still the same for me.


@roamer_1, then that man better keep his hands off underaged girls, or he has no honor.  Men and women both have honor, and I'm not going to give either special consideration because of his or her sex. 

I'll keep saying it---this isn't a court and you won't get proof, and you know it.  And I doubt you were demanding proof from Clinton's female accusers.  In this kind of situation, you have to make a decision--who is lying?  It's either Moore or everybody else.  Waiting for proof that you know will never come is just punting.

We have got to stop putting politicians on pedestals like this.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 15, 2017, 01:31:15 am
Why do y'all keep demanding proof when a) you know it won't be coming and b) we aren't in court, so we don't need proof?  I sound like a parrot with that line, but it's conveniently ignored every time.

You are welcome to shout "Crucify him! Crucify Him!"  To your heart's satisfaction.

I will not be joining you in that chorus.

Were you waiting for proof before you believed Paula Jones and Juanita Broaddrick (sp)?

I already answered you about that previously, and in detail.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 15, 2017, 01:33:20 am

@roamer_1, then that man better keep his hands off underaged girls, or he has no honor.  Men and women both have honor, and I'm not going to give either special consideration because of his or her sex.


@CatherineofAragon
It isn't special consideration for one and not the other - I would be equally considerate of a good woman's honor called on the table.   

Quote
I'll keep saying it---this isn't a court and you won't get proof, and you know it.  And I doubt you were demanding proof from Clinton's female accusers. 

Then you'd be wrong - I believed Juanita Broderick, and do to this day - But it was the blue dress that made up my mind. Though, by the way, Slick Willie had no particular reputation toward honor in the first place - and there were accusations all the way along with him. Bill Clinton is not a good man, as his record attests. No such record exists in Moore.

So the two do not equate.

Quote
In this kind of situation, you have to make a decision--who is lying?  It's either Moore or everybody else.  Waiting for proof that you know will never come is just punting.

We have got to stop putting politicians on pedestals like this.

He is not a politician on a pedestal - He is a man with a record of integrity, and honorable as they come. And I will disagree - If he is the cad he is accused of being, there will be evidence. There always is, sooner or later.

So show me the blue dress.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: LMAO on November 15, 2017, 01:43:01 am


  In this kind of situation, you have to make a decision--who is lying?  It's either Moore or everybody else. 

Anyone can be accused of anything. When I have a female client that I've met the for the first time come to my office, I always have the door open. And I understand the "innocent till proven guilty" Moore doesn't have just one accuser. I believe he has five. So then you have to ask what you're asking here. Are
the women who are accusing him all liars and Moore is the honest one here? Five women who probably never knew of each other till today?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 02:01:25 am
What mystifies me is why so many are calling for a head on a pike with no more than newspaper hype.

Shopping at the one Mall in town would be like being accused of 'creeping' the local Walmart here. Where are you going to go? In a dry county, you can't even go check out the barflies.

@Smokin Joe

Well, if you get banned from the local Walmart for creeping after young girls, that kind of tells you something.

Honestly, it's blowing me away that people think all of these people are lying and Moore is telling the truth.  Dismissing everything that's come out and calling it nothing...it's inexplicable to me.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 02:03:51 am
Anyone can be accused of anything. When I have a female client that I've met the for the first time come to my office, I always have the door open. And I understand the "innocent till proven guilty" Moore doesn't have just one accuser. I believe he has five. So then you have to ask that you're asking here. Are
the women who are accusing him liars? Five women who probably never knew of each other till today?

@LMAO

Yes, I think it's five women.  You also have to believe their friends and families are lying, along with the people who worked with Moore, the cop who confirmed he was banned from the mall, and then you have to dismiss every bit of information. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 02:18:04 am
@CatherineofAragon
It isn't special consideration for one and not the other - I would be equally considerate of a good woman's honor called on the table.   

Then you'd be wrong - I believed Juanita Broderick, and do to this day - But it was the blue dress that made up my mind. Though, by the way, Slick Willie had no particular reputation toward honor in the first place - and there were accusations all the way along with him. Bill Clinton is not a good man, as his record attests. No such record exists in Moore.

So the two do not equate.

He is not a politician on a pedestal - He is a man with a record of integrity, and honorable as they come. And I will disagree - If he is the cad he is accused of being, there will be evidence. There always is, sooner or later.

So show me the blue dress.

@roamer_1

Well, they kind of do equate, if you read the accounts of what Moore's coworkers thought of him.  And the article from the 2002 newspaper.

Fair enough on you believing Juanita Broaddrick.  You're not going to get a blue dress.  Either one man is lying, or everyone else is, and the information is all fake.  Like Ben Shapiro said:

"The first argument: Moore hasn’t been convicted of anything, and due process requires us to consider him innocent until proven guilty. This argument is empty, because our decision to vote for or against a particular candidate doesn’t require due process — Hillary Clinton wasn’t convicted of anything, either, except in the minds of the public. Due process determines whether you go to jail. The public determines whether it thinks politicians ought to be handed power."

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453706/alabama-senate-race-reject-roy-moore-character-matters-write-in-jeff-sessions
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 15, 2017, 02:22:47 am

Yes, I think it's five women.  You also have to believe their friends and families are lying, along with the people who worked with Moore, the cop who confirmed he was banned from the mall, and then you have to dismiss every bit of information.

Where were all these accusers over the last 40 years?  You gonna tell us to believe in this Xmas miracle that suddenly - after 40 years of Moore campaigning and seeking office that suddenly NOW - just weeks away from a sure-fire win that all these women with tales of a man with a history of child molestation and stalking young women and attempting to rape them suddenly appears?  Where were the Democrat dirt-diggers all this time?  Where were they over the 10 Commandments fiasco when that staunch refusal to comply with federal edict could have been nailed shut within the first 24 hours?

Five women suddenly paraded in front of cameras and publications to give questionable allegations about a man whose fruits and integrity from decades of public service do not match the accusation - and you expect us to side with women, three of whom are KNOWN Democrat political activists?????????  One with a record of making false and bogus sex allegations in the past????

Nope.  I believe as has been stated - the this is the Herman Cain-ng of Moore and YES - all these sudden allegations appear to me to be bogus.

If I can be proven wrong with evidence beyond simple accusations and hearsay with a recent allegation with proof to boot - then I'd be willing to eat my crow and admit I my discernment about Moore was wrong.

So far - no dice on all the attempts to smear the guy.  I smell the odor of bullshit in the whole sudden effort of the last week based on timing, the instant reactions of McConnell, McCain and Graham and the pile on since.

The voters in Alabama will decide whether or not they too consider Moore to be a victim of bullshit or a bullshitting stalker.  We will know in a few weeks, but the political sabotage is continuing.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 15, 2017, 02:33:13 am
Moore doesn't have just one accuser. I believe he has five.

Incorrect, 2 woman say Moore acted inappropriately 40 years ago.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 15, 2017, 02:35:18 am

Well, they kind of do equate, if you read the accounts of what Moore's coworkers thought of him.  And the article from the 2002 newspaper.

@CatherineofAragon

I don't see any names on this stuff - nor in the article, which was a monument to innuendo from a politically driven paper... Wrt the charge that he was banished from the mall, as an instance, the management of the mall, and the mall cop - Those who would actually be able to corroborate - Declined to do so.

Quote
Fair enough on you believing Juanita Broaddrick.  You're not going to get a blue dress.  Either one man is lying, or everyone else is, and the information is all fake.

I have been in such conditions before, with people I know, where the supposed perpetrator was absolutely innocent (to my direct knowledge). Perhaps that is why I am loathe to believe gossip - Which is all this is, with the greater weight of partisanship and politics over-weighting the mere motive of gossip alone (which is bad enough). 

Quote
Like Ben Shapiro said:

"The first argument: Moore hasn’t been convicted of anything, and due process requires us to consider him innocent until proven guilty. This argument is empty, because our decision to vote for or against a particular candidate doesn’t require due process — Hillary Clinton wasn’t convicted of anything, either, except in the minds of the public. Due process determines whether you go to jail. The public determines whether it thinks politicians ought to be handed power."

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/453706/alabama-senate-race-reject-roy-moore-character-matters-write-in-jeff-sessions

Ben Shapiro is stone dead wrong.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 15, 2017, 02:38:09 am
(https://s.faketrumptweet.com/j9zx3doz_1nnwujf_qpaszs.png)

Is this spam really necessary @mystery-ak

Some dopes may even believe this is legitimate.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 15, 2017, 02:50:09 am
Is this spam really necessary @mystery-ak

Some dopes may even believe this is legitimate.

   Geez @Right_in_Virginia not all of us are complete Idiots and most saw and appreciated the humour in it.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 15, 2017, 03:33:27 am
   Geez @Right_in_Virginia not all of us are complete Idiots and most saw and appreciated the humour in it.

Are you sure about this @corbe
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 15, 2017, 03:37:07 am
   I'm not sure about anything @Right_in_Virginia except my Rockets just lost for the third time this year, to Ted Cruz's team~Toronto.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Right_in_Virginia on November 15, 2017, 03:38:38 am
   I'm not sure about anything @Right_in_Virginia except my Rockets just lost for the third time this year, to Ted Cruz's team~Toronto.

Whatever ...
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 15, 2017, 04:02:56 am
@Smokin Joe

Well, that last is more overwrought than accurate, but I believe he's a creep and a predator and shouldn't be rewarded with a senate seat.  It's up to the people in Alabama, naturally, but that's my opinion.  Determined?  I can't vote there so that descriptor doesn't apply. 

Moore is on trial in the public sphere, no different from any other politician, but you can't apply legal rules and you know that.  You also know you aren't going to get any more evidence that you have now, and I think it's safe to say you weren't calling for it when Clinton's women accused him.

"Something he has worked for?"  Seriously?  He isn't entitled to a Senate seat.  Listen, Joe, the guy is assassinating his own character.  His defense has been pretty lousy, and he's doing the same thing Trump did---making empty pronouncements about suing when he knows he's going to do no such thing.  He could have filed a suit by now--why hasn't he?

By the way, I haven't called for him to step down...not that I remember, anyway.  I'm watching it all play out.
The something he has worked for is a career in public service and a good reputation as an honorable man. And I can apply a higher standard than shesaidhesaid whipped up at a politically opportune moment (to attack him) with two-toned alleged signatures with numbers made differently.

Proof, my ass.

This isn't some Hollywood sleazebag y'all are discussing, here. If you believe he is a "predator" and a "creep", you have convicted him in your own mind.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 15, 2017, 04:03:14 am
Anyone can be accused of anything. When I have a female client that I've met the for the first time come to my office, I always have the door open. And I understand the "innocent till proven guilty" Moore doesn't have just one accuser. I believe he has five. So then you have to ask what you're asking here. Are
the women who are accusing him all liars and Moore is the honest one here? Five women who probably never knew of each other till today?


I see people supposedly on our side,  keep spreading the lie that Moore has more than two accusers.   He has *TWO* accusers,  and there are problems with both of their stories. 


The other three women did not accuse him of any improprieties,  only two did,  and for some reason they didn't muster enough outrage to bring this up in the last four decades,  but we are supposed to believe it is a really big deal now?   


I have reached the point where I don't even care if their allegations are true.  I put baby murdering and letting perverts into women's bathrooms as a higher moral priority than worry about whether someone improperly touched some girls 40 years ago.


 I am sending Moore money tomorrow.   

The Perverted Democrats can go to H3ll,  and so too can those who lend them support by parroting their propaganda for them.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 15, 2017, 04:11:21 am
Incorrect, 2 woman say Moore acted inappropriately 40 years ago.


I believe CatherineofAragon has been trying pretty hard to get the number up to 30.   


But yes,  it's only two,  and neither has any proof,  and what we learn from the other 3 women that dated Moore is that the accusations are inconsistent with their own experience.   


Gentleman with 3,  and lecher with 2?  It doesn't fit.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 15, 2017, 04:13:07 am

I see people supposedly on our side,  keep spreading the lie that Moore has more than two accusers.   He has *TWO* accusers,  and there are problems with both of their stories. 


The other three women did not accuse him of any improprieties,  only two did,  and for some reason they didn't muster enough outrage to bring this up in the last four decades,  but we are supposed to believe it is a really big deal now?   


I have reached the point where I don't even care if their allegations are true.  I put baby murdering and letting perverts into women's bathrooms as a higher moral priority than worry about whether someone improperly touched some girls 40 years ago.


 I am sending Moore money tomorrow.   

The Perverted Democrats can go to H3ll,  and so too can those who lend them support by parroting their propaganda for them.

The Republican party has pulled all support for Moore, and the AL SecState says that if the state GOP yanks support - the election is null and void if Moore wins.

Methinks if he is not removed, and wins - the Oligarchy in DC is not going to allow him to be seated.  They have arrived at the point they think they can tell us who will rule us by their choice, not ours.

And we are watching those muscles get flexed by the party leaders, all-the-while they circle the wagons around Democrat Menendez' criminal charges and sex with underage prostitute scandal.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 15, 2017, 04:24:48 am
@Smokin Joe

Well, if you get banned from the local Walmart for creeping after young girls, that kind of tells you something.

Honestly, it's blowing me away that people think all of these people are lying and Moore is telling the truth.  Dismissing everything that's come out and calling it nothing...it's inexplicable to me.
My point is that the local Walmart is the big store around here. There is no Mall. If they had a Mall, that was not only the place to shop, but where there were people, where people met and talked. It's a dry county, or was then, no sports bar to go to (there were only a few in that era), the women his age were home with their husbands or working on their cat collection. Aside from church socials, not many places to meet people, and very few left in his age group--pardon the expression, but rejects, retreads, and the town pump, and maybe a rare few worthwhile candidates, but meeting them becomes the challenge.

According to whom was he banned from the shopping mall in town? How has that assertion been confirmed?
Maybe he was checking out the grannies? Maybe he was shopping. What mall was he supposedly banned from and by whom?

Everything bad said about the guy has you up at arms as if it had been delivered on gold sheets by Angels from Heaven. What I don't get is that you are so pathologically willing to throw him to the wolves when there is obvious motive for the Democrats to pump a bunch of spurious allegations up for political purposes, and the damned GOP would play right along. Yet we have a potus who married a woman 24 years his junior, and this man's wife is 14 years his junior, and that just wasn't that uncommon there and then, especially for guys who had been in the Service and/or attended college to marry a younger woman. 

You also keep slinging around "under-aged" as if that applies to under 21. NO. In Alabama the age of consent is 16, was 16, and only two are alleging any sexual contact (beyond a kiss, which can be anything from steamy to sterile--grandmas give them), one of which was 16, the other claimed to be younger.
The more I see this story repeated, the more there are supposed to be 'speaking out', but it's still the two at this point and one of them presented "evidence" which has a couple of problems with it. Two colors of ink. Two different styles of sevens. Signed a yearbook in December? "Ray" mentioned in the presser--until Gloria corrected her. Vivid, detailed, recollections but she got his name wrong? Meh. full of holes and unnamed sources.

The other coming up with a graphic description of some hanky-panky which reads like the warmup paragraphs in a letter to Penthouse Forum, in an undisclosed remote location that hasn't been tied to Moore at all?

And the timing...

This just does not have the honest and solid ring of truth to it.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 15, 2017, 04:33:31 am
My point is that the local Walmart is the big store around here. There is no Mall. If they had a Mall, that was not only the place to shop, but where there were people, where people met and talked. It's a dry county, or was then, no sports bar to go to (there were only a few in that era), the women his age were home with their husbands or working on their cat collection. Aside from church socials, not many places to meet people, and very few left in his age group--pardon the expression, but rejects, retreads, and the town pump, and maybe a rare few worthwhile candidates, but meeting them becomes the challenge.

According to whom was he banned from the shopping mall in town? How has that assertion been confirmed?
Maybe he was checking out the grannies? Maybe he was shopping. What mall was he supposedly banned from and by whom?

Everything bad said about the guy has you up at arms as if it had been delivered on gold sheets by Angels from Heaven. What I don't get is that you are so pathologically willing to throw him to the wolves when there is obvious motive for the Democrats to pump a bunch of spurious allegations up for political purposes, and the damned GOP would play right along. Yet we have a potus who married a woman 24 years his junior, and this man's wife is 14 years his junior, and that just wasn't that uncommon there and then, especially for guys who had been in the Service and/or attended college to marry a younger woman. 

You also keep slinging around "under-aged" as if that applies to under 21. NO. In Alabama the age of consent is 16, was 16, and only two are alleging any sexual contact (beyond a kiss, which can be anything from steamy to sterile--grandmas give them), one of which was 16, the other claimed to be younger.
The more I see this story repeated, the more there are supposed to be 'speaking out', but it's still the two at this point and one of them presented "evidence" which has a couple of problems with it. Two colors of ink. Two different styles of sevens. Signed a yearbook in December? "Ray" mentioned in the presser--until Gloria corrected her. Vivid, detailed, recollections but she got his name wrong? Meh. full of holes and unnamed sources.

The other coming up with a graphic description of some hanky-panky which reads like the warmup paragraphs in a letter to Penthouse Forum, in an undisclosed remote location that hasn't been tied to Moore at all?

And the timing...

This just does not have the honest and solid ring of truth to it.

Minds are made up Joe.  It doesn't matter any more at this point.  Arguing about it is just solidifying all our staked positions. 

That said, I find the pattern and the behaviors simply amazing to behold in terms of how fast the civil society is unravelling and how quickly we are diving into despotism.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 12:36:58 pm
   I'm not sure about anything @Right_in_Virginia except my Rockets just lost for the third time this year, to Ted Cruz's team~Toronto.

@corbe

The Zodiac’s influence is far-reaching.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 12:39:20 pm
The something he has worked for is a career in public service and a good reputation as an honorable man. And I can apply a higher standard than shesaidhesaid whipped up at a politically opportune moment (to attack him) with two-toned alleged signatures with numbers made differently.

Proof, my ass.

This isn't some Hollywood sleazebag y'all are discussing, here. If you believe he is a "predator" and a "creep", you have convicted him in your own mind.

@ Smokin Joe

“Proof my ass” —-one of my points.

Looks like even Hannity is ready to “convict” him now.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 12:45:41 pm

I believe CatherineofAragon has been trying pretty hard to get the number up to 30.   

@DiogenesLamp

Well, no, but I totally get that you’re reduced to lying at this point.  What else have you got.

It’s not two women.  It’s five.  We don’t do alternate facts.

When you take into account all of the people who have come forth to corroborate the claims or to state what they know about Moore, it’s probably more than thirty.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 12:47:43 pm
My point is that the local Walmart is the big store around here. There is no Mall. If they had a Mall, that was not only the place to shop, but where there were people, where people met and talked. It's a dry county, or was then, no sports bar to go to (there were only a few in that era), the women his age were home with their husbands or working on their cat collection. Aside from church socials, not many places to meet people, and very few left in his age group--pardon the expression, but rejects, retreads, and the town pump, and maybe a rare few worthwhile candidates, but meeting them becomes the challenge.

According to whom was he banned from the shopping mall in town? How has that assertion been confirmed?
Maybe he was checking out the grannies? Maybe he was shopping. What mall was he supposedly banned from and by whom?

Everything bad said about the guy has you up at arms as if it had been delivered on gold sheets by Angels from Heaven. What I don't get is that you are so pathologically willing to throw him to the wolves when there is obvious motive for the Democrats to pump a bunch of spurious allegations up for political purposes, and the damned GOP would play right along. Yet we have a potus who married a woman 24 years his junior, and this man's wife is 14 years his junior, and that just wasn't that uncommon there and then, especially for guys who had been in the Service and/or attended college to marry a younger woman. 

You also keep slinging around "under-aged" as if that applies to under 21. NO. In Alabama the age of consent is 16, was 16, and only two are alleging any sexual contact (beyond a kiss, which can be anything from steamy to sterile--grandmas give them), one of which was 16, the other claimed to be younger.
The more I see this story repeated, the more there are supposed to be 'speaking out', but it's still the two at this point and one of them presented "evidence" which has a couple of problems with it. Two colors of ink. Two different styles of sevens. Signed a yearbook in December? "Ray" mentioned in the presser--until Gloria corrected her. Vivid, detailed, recollections but she got his name wrong? Meh. full of holes and unnamed sources.

The other coming up with a graphic description of some hanky-panky which reads like the warmup paragraphs in a letter to Penthouse Forum, in an undisclosed remote location that hasn't been tied to Moore at all?

And the timing...

This just does not have the honest and solid ring of truth to it.

@Smokin Joe

Yes, Joe.  He was checking out the grannies. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 15, 2017, 12:58:46 pm
@ Smokin Joe

“Proof my ass” —-one of my points.

Looks like even Hannity is ready to “convict” him now.
I don't care what Hannity thinks.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 15, 2017, 01:02:37 pm
@DiogenesLamp

Well, no, but I totally get that you’re reduced to lying at this point.  What else have you got.

It’s not two women.  It’s five.  We don’t do alternate facts.

When you take into account all of the people who have come forth to corroborate the claims or to state what they know about Moore, it’s probably more than thirty.
Who are the other three who allege he did anything to them below the age of 16 or without their consent?  Sixteen is the age of consent in Alabama, older is NOT "underage", legally. The other three said there was nothing sexual.

So if you are going to keep repeating the "five" thingy, kindly humor me and list them.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 15, 2017, 01:39:48 pm
Minds are made up Joe.

Not mine.  It remains open, waiting for more evidence to be introduced.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 15, 2017, 01:42:36 pm
Who are the other three who allege he did anything to them below the age of 16 or without their consent?  Sixteen is the age of consent in Alabama, older is NOT "underage", legally. The other three said there was nothing sexual.

So if you are going to keep repeating the "five" thingy, kindly humor me and list them.

The other three corroborate Moore's pattern of hitting on young girls.  Remember this isn't about a criminal charge, but the pattern of creepy behavior.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 01:51:25 pm
Who are the other three who allege he did anything to them below the age of 16 or without their consent?  Sixteen is the age of consent in Alabama, older is NOT "underage", legally. The other three said there was nothing sexual.

So if you are going to keep repeating the "five" thingy, kindly humor me and list them.

@Smokin Joe

I’m not going to do your own research for you when it’s a simple fact that’s all over the internet.  I don’t see how you could not know it.  Besides, you’ve dismissed all of the information we have so far; you’ll dismiss it again when I post it.  Waste of my time.  And don’t get your back up because I don’t mean that in a nasty way.  It’s just how it is.

Personally, I think Moore will win his race.  He’ll probably run for president.  Remember last year, when some of us said God was turning away and giving us what we wanted in Trump?

Well, I hope you didn’t expect it would get better.  We’re rolling on downhill. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 15, 2017, 01:57:28 pm
Not mine.  It remains open, waiting for more any evidence to be introduced.

fixed.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Suppressed on November 15, 2017, 01:59:00 pm
The other three corroborate Moore's pattern of hitting on young girls.  Remember this isn't about a criminal charge, but the pattern of creepy behavior.

Puh-leeze, @Jazzhead ... these aren't "young girls" at 17.  A 5-year-old is a young girl, and there's no evidence he was a pedophile.  You're usually very careful with words; I urge the same here.

These young ladies were all of legal age except the one alleging an encounter at 14. 

I don't hold him guilty on an allegation, and it's horrific trying to prove your innocence, and this was 4 decades ago, so I'm bit ready to convict him.  I also think that an honorable older man can match well with a young lady.  The other question are whether his behavior shows poor judgment, and whether the assault alleges are credible.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 15, 2017, 02:01:54 pm
Not mine.  It remains open, waiting for more evidence to be introduced.

I don't get to vote in Alabama but I hope and pray that the good people there will see through all this and elect Roy Moore to the U.S. Senate!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 15, 2017, 02:29:33 pm
@DiogenesLamp

Well, no, but I totally get that you’re reduced to lying at this point.  What else have you got.


It is no lie that you gleefully prance in here with any derogatory claims you can find against Moore,  Constantly try to inflate the number to five  when you aren't trying to inflate it to 30,   and at every turn deny him the benefit of the doubt.   





It’s not two women.  It’s five.  We don’t do alternate facts.


And this is another example of deception.   Only two have accused him of sexual impropriety,  but you keep claiming Five,  because in your opinion a 32 year old should not date a teenager,  and so you put the act of "dating"  (and being a gentleman about it)   into the category of "sexual perv."    Well I,  and I think others do not agree with you about this,  but you of course will state your opinion as an absolute fundamental truth and ignore what anyone else thinks on the subject.   





When you take into account all of the people who have come forth to corroborate the claims


Corroborate them?  Were they there?  Or are they just repeating what they were told,  otherwise known as "hearsay"?    So far as I can tell,  no one has "corroborated"  anything,   they have simply repeated accusations that they have heard.   In fact,  if the women are to be believed,   it is not possible for anyone to "corroborate" their story,   because they claim to have been alone with Moore at the time. 








or to state what they know about Moore, it’s probably more than thirty.



I knew you would get there in the end.   It's good to see you "corroborate"  my claim about this. 



Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 15, 2017, 02:33:24 pm

It is no lie that you gleefully prance in here with any derogatory claims you can find against Moore,  Constantly try to inflate the number to five  when you aren't trying to inflate it to 30,   and at every turn deny him the benefit of the doubt.   





And this is another example of deception.   Only two have accused him of sexual impropriety,  but you keep claiming Five,  because in your opinion a 32 year old should not date a teenager,  and so you put the act of "dating"  (and being a gentleman about it)   into the category of "sexual perv."    Well I,  and I think others do not agree with you about this,  but you of course will state your opinion as an absolute fundamental truth and ignore what anyone else thinks on the subject.   






Corroborate them?  Were they there?  Or are they just repeating what they were told,  otherwise known as "hearsay"?    So far as I can tell,  no one has "corroborated"  anything,   they have simply repeated accusations that they have heard.   In fact,  if the women are to be believed,   it is not possible for anyone to "corroborate" their story,   because they claim to have been alone with Moore at the time. 










I knew you would get there in the end.   It's good to see you "corroborate"  my claim about this.

I'll bet if it was known in the primary race with Strange, Moore and Brooks, that Moore while 30 and over, doesn't deny that he may have dated teenage girls, he would not have won.

People are getting too charged up saying "well, there isn't viable proof" that he sexually assaulted these girls but this other alone would be a big negative in other people's minds.  He probably would not have won.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 15, 2017, 02:37:17 pm
The other three corroborate Moore's pattern of hitting on young girls.  Remember this isn't about a criminal charge, but the pattern of creepy behavior.


It's not about a criminal charge?    Well no it isn't,  because any statute of limitations would have expired long ago.   It's about an ACCUSATION of a criminal charge,   that apparently wasn't so severe that anyone making these accusations thought it needed to be adjudicated in the last four decades.   

Without these accusations of criminal behavior,   the "Moore is creepy because he dated teenagers when he was 32"  doesn't amount to much.    If the Washington Post had left out the woman claiming to have been 14,  people would have ignored their story altogether.   

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 15, 2017, 02:38:43 pm
Not mine.  It remains open, waiting for more evidence to be introduced.

Same here.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 15, 2017, 02:44:02 pm
The other three corroborate Moore's pattern of hitting on young girls.

What other three? Where are they?  Who are they?


Quote
Remember this isn't about a criminal charge, but the pattern of creepy behavior.

No this kind of Democrat and now it would appear GOPe BS goes all the way back to when it was claimed that Bush 41 was whisked to Paris on an SR-71 Blackbird to secretly negotiate with the Iranians to not release the hostages until Reagan was elected.

There was even a congressional investigation into the original "October Surprise".

That's where the famous line about "The nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it’s the seriousness of the charge that matters."

You simply need to make a harsh, totally unfounded charge, and that’s reason enough to investigate.

Until something credible as far as evidence pops up...this is what's going on now with Judge Moore.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 15, 2017, 02:44:36 pm
I'll bet if it was known in the primary race with Strange, Moore and Brooks, that Moore while 30 and over, doesn't deny that he may have dated teenage girls, he would not have won.


I think without the accusation of molesting a 14 year old,   the people of Alabama would not a sh*t give about the accusation of his dating teenagers 40 years ago.   


Had that been the only claim made,   I would have said:  "Well good for him!"   

When 38 year old Jerry Seinfeld was dating his 17 year old girl friend,   all the same media people now being aghast at the lesser age difference between Moore and these women at the time,   all thought it was "cute"  when Jerry did it.   




People are getting too charged up saying "well, there isn't viable proof" that he sexually assaulted these girls but this other alone would be a big negative in other people's minds.  He probably would not have won.


I don't think it would have made a difference if three women came out to say that "Moore dated me as a teenager and he was a gentleman about it."   


It is only the sensationalist accusation that even makes this issue noteworthy. 


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 15, 2017, 03:02:01 pm
I'll bet if it was known in the primary race with Strange, Moore and Brooks, that Moore while 30 and over, doesn't deny that he may have dated teenage girls, he would not have won.

Well he did win so now the choice is Moore or a baby killing radical progressive.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 15, 2017, 03:32:43 pm
Well he did win so now the choice is Moore or a baby killing radical progressive.

It is a damn shame that Moore has forced Alabama voters into having to make such a choice.   If Moore cares at all about the values he espouses, he'll step down before the weekend.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 15, 2017, 03:34:42 pm
Well he did win so now the choice is Moore or a baby killing radical progressive.

Didn't bother the Never Trumpers who are about half the people defending Moore.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 15, 2017, 03:35:07 pm
It is a damn shame that Moore has forced Alabama voters into having to make such a choice.   If Moore cares at all about the values he espouses, he'll step down before the weekend.
Maybe if he did the things being alleged. But not if he is being falsely accused.
Never give in if you are innocent.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 15, 2017, 03:43:43 pm
Didn't bother the Never Trumpers who are about half the people defending Moore.

I am and always have been an issues person. I support Trump because I like the
policies he campaigned on. Especially immigration. Moore is a SoCo, on most
social issues I lean libertarian. But I do not like to see a man smeared by accusations
from 40 years ago with not one sherd of hard evidence. That offenses my sense of
fairness. Also I am pretty sure Moores opponent will oppose Trumps' agenda but
Moore won't. So for me its' an easy choice. Go Roy Moore. Plus I just love sticking
it to the GOPe.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 15, 2017, 03:45:06 pm
The other three corroborate Moore's pattern of hitting on young girls.  Remember this isn't about a criminal charge, but the pattern of creepy behavior.
So dating young women beyond the age of consent with their parent's consent is 'creepy behaviour'? (Just trying to get the lexicon straight.)
Well, just how old would they haave to be before it wasn't "creepy" any more?
Keep in mind that the age of consent is 16 in Alabama (still). Unlike France where they are debating establishing such a thing--at 13--because there hasn't been an age of consent there.

I'm curious because the age difference between POTUS and FLOTUS is nearly DOUBLE what is being claimed for Moore and the young ladies he expressed interest in, and those young ladies, at 17, were not only old enough, they claim there was no sexual contact.
That doesn't corroborate any claims of illicit behaviour, in fact, quite the opposite. It doesn't fit. Your 'evidence' just isn't.

He went out with respectable and unmarried single women, with the foreknowledge and consent of their parents, and that is in much starker contrast to any allegations of wrongdoing than any of you are willing to admit. not only that, but it's perfectly LEGAL. That, after West Point, two tours in the Army, and Law school, there were probably very few (if any) left in his age group who had not been rejected, divorced, or were simply not suitable as mates. Since the same problems generally apply to an older population (and we've seen what people think of that with the French President and his wife) the best prospects were those young ladies of respectable mien and families who were of age.


IRRELEVANT! It does not 'establish a pattern' of behaviour relevant to the accusations being made which might indicate some wrongdoing.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 15, 2017, 05:38:27 pm
Maybe if he did the things being alleged. But not if he is being falsely accused.
Never give in if you are innocent.

I doubt he's innocent,  but I understand that others may disagree.

But the issue is, as you noted above, that "now the choice is Moore or a baby killing radical progressive".   If Moore stays in the race, the result is the next Senator from Alabama is the baby killing radical progressive.   If that's the result you want to avoid, then join with most respectable conservatives and urge Moore to stand down.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on November 15, 2017, 08:18:53 pm
If they lose Congress it will be due to their doing jack shit that they promised their constituents for 7 years leading up to the last election and  acting like Democrats and supporting the Democrat agenda.  It's NOT going to be due the fact that the voters in Alabama elect Moore to represent them.
Wow.  That is some messed up logic.  Moore is disgusting and unfit for office.  He will taint the GOP for years to come, but he will be defended by the braindead who think it is draining the swamp. 

If Trump/Moore is the face of the new GOP...bring back the swamp.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 08:30:37 pm
Wow.  That is some messed up logic.  Moore is disgusting and unfit for office.  He will taint the GOP for years to come, but he will be defended by the braindead who think it is draining the swamp. 

If Trump/Moore is the face of the new GOP...bring back the swamp.

@Once-Ler

After watching the video of his lawyer's interview, and reading the letter that guy came up with, I'm beginning to question whether Moore has the judgment for higher office. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on November 15, 2017, 08:35:09 pm
@Once-Ler

After watching the video of his lawyer's interview, and reading the letter that guy came up with, I'm beginning to question whether Moore has the judgment for higher office.

I've read all your posts on this thread.  Thank you for expressing what I also think, and expressing it so well. :patriot:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 15, 2017, 08:49:01 pm
I've read all your posts on this thread.  Thank you for expressing what I also think, and expressing it so well. :patriot:

@Once-Ler

Wow, I really do appreciate that.  Thank you.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 15, 2017, 09:12:27 pm
@Once-Ler

Wow, I really do appreciate that.  Thank you.

You may not want my kudos,  but I, too, think you've been doing a heck of a job on this issue.   Right on, CofA! 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 15, 2017, 09:42:23 pm
   Unlike Hannity, Limbaugh and half the GOP our @CatherineofAragon plays catch-up to no one.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: aligncare on November 15, 2017, 10:15:55 pm
Wow.  That is some messed up logic.  Moore is disgusting and unfit for office.  He will taint the GOP for years to come, but he will be defended by the braindead who think it is draining the swamp. 

If Trump/Moore is the face of the new GOP...bring back the swamp.

Leftists in America and leftists globally are bent upon tearing down Western culture, the culture that arose out of Athens. In its place they wish to erect a third world culture and civilization. Agree?

Sounds like a non sequitur, I know, but please, if you feel inclined indulge me with a response. I’d like to explain a point of view that wants Roy Moore to win that senate seat and it relates to the question.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 15, 2017, 11:48:26 pm
Lynch mob mentality...all of this hysteria, until hard evidence is presented. Give the man a friggin break. There was more corroborated evidence with either of the Clinton’s and nothing came of it and the Lynch mobs got nowhere. Give it a rest for God’s sake.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 16, 2017, 12:00:57 am
Meet another Roy Moore accuser:




New Roy Moore accuser: 'He didn't pinch it; he grabbed it'


By Anna Claire Vollers     |     Updated 5:57 PM; Posted 5:20 PM


A Gadsden woman says Roy Moore groped her while she was in his law office on legal business with her mother in 1991. Moore was married at that time.

In the past week, Moore has been accused by five other women of a range of behaviors that include sexual misconduct with a woman when she was 14, and sexual assault of another when she was 16. This is the first public accusation of physical contact that happened after Moore was married.

In recent days, Moore has publicly denied any wrongdoing, and has denied knowing some of the women.

Tina Johnson

In interviews with AL.com, Tina Johnson recalls that in the fall of 1991 she sat in the law office of then-attorney Roy Moore on Third Street in Gadsden. Her mother, Mary Katherine Cofield, sat in the chair next to her. Moore sat behind his desk, across from them. Johnson remembers she was wearing a black and white dress.

Almost from the moment she walked in to Moore's office, Johnson said, Moore began flirting with her.

"He kept commenting on my looks, telling me how pretty I was, how nice I looked," recalled Johnson. "He was saying that my eyes were beautiful."

It made her uncomfortable. "I was thinking, can we hurry up and get out of here?"

Johnson was 28 years old, in a difficult marriage headed toward divorce, and unemployed. She was at the office to sign over custody of her 12-year-old son to her mother, with whom he'd been living. Her mother had hired Moore to handle the custody petition.

Johnson had two young daughters at the time with her then-husband, and her son said he wanted to live with his grandmother.

At one point during the meeting, she said, Moore came around the desk and sat on the front of it, just inches from her. He was so close, she said, she could smell his breath.

According to Johnson, he asked questions about her young daughters, including what color eyes they had and if they were as pretty as she was. She said that made her feel uncomfortable, too.

Once the papers were signed, she and her mother got up to leave. After her mother walked through the door first, she said, Moore came up behind her.

It was at that point, she recalled, he grabbed her buttocks.

"He didn't pinch it; he grabbed it," said Johnson. She was so surprised she didn't say anything. She didn't tell her mother.

She said she told her sister years later how Moore had made her feel uncomfortable during that meeting. Her sister told AL.com she remembers the conversation.

Johnson reached out to AL.com earlier this week to talk about her experience with Moore.

AL.com located the court documents from 1991, detailing the custody transfer. Cofield's petition for custody is signed by Roy S. Moore, attorney. It lists his address as 924 Third Avenue, Gadsden.

Johnson has had ups and downs in her life, both before and after she met Moore. She has pled guilty to writing bad checks, and for third-degree theft of property, which she said stemmed from family disagreement over the care of her late stepfather.

Since marrying her husband, Morris Johnson, in 2010, she said she has been working to improve her life.

"I'm not perfect," she said. "I have things in my background and I know (the public) will jump on anything, but (what happened with Moore) is still the truth, and the truth will stand when the world won't."

Johnson, who is now disabled, considers herself a devout Christian and regularly attends a church near her home in Gadsden.  She said she is not political and doesn't follow politics. She said she has not spoken with Moore since that day in his office, and does not know any of the five other women who have come forward with accusations against him.

"This is not a politics thing with me," she said. "It's more of a moral and religious thing." It has bothered her over the years to see Moore on TV, talking about his Christian faith.


http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/11/new_roy_moore_accuser_he_didnt.html
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 16, 2017, 12:14:15 am
"accused by five". .."a range of behaviors that include"... 3 instances of no impropriety at all, too.

'nuff said.
(Did someone answer the wapo robocall?) :smokin:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 16, 2017, 01:33:20 am
You may not want my kudos,  but I, too, think you've been doing a heck of a job on this issue.   Right on, CofA!

@Jazzhead

No, I would never refuse a kind word, and I thank you.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 16, 2017, 01:35:09 am
   Unlike Hannity, Limbaugh and half the GOP our @CatherineofAragon plays catch-up to no one.

@corbe

But you have to tell me when I mess up..Lord knows there are plenty of times.

 034
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: libertybele on November 16, 2017, 01:41:32 am
Wow.  That is some messed up logic.  Moore is disgusting and unfit for office.  He will taint the GOP for years to come, but he will be defended by the braindead who think it is draining the swamp. 

If Trump/Moore is the face of the new GOP...bring back the swamp.

If you recall though, Trump backed Strange. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Sighlass on November 16, 2017, 02:13:30 am
Yearbook was signed "Roy Moore DA".... In 1977 Roy was not the DA.

(https://s7.postimg.org/vnl2r6am3/Roy_Moore_Year_Book.jpg)

@CatherineofAragon

Also claimed she didn't know Roy after that point... Except in 1999 Roy was judge over her divorce case.

DA was initials of Roy's assistant that also signed his documents. Did she copy the signature of Roy (who did not use DA with his signature) from her divorce papers years later which was initialed with his assistant Deborah Adams?

Also notice the differences between the two "77".. Obvious differences.


https://thepolitistick.com/roy-moore-attorney-demands-gloria-allred-release-original-yearbook-contends-fraud/
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: libertybele on November 16, 2017, 03:06:02 am
Yearbook was signed "Roy Moore DA".... In 1977 Roy was not the DA.

(https://s7.postimg.org/vnl2r6am3/Roy_Moore_Year_Book.jpg)

@CatherineofAragon

Also claimed she didn't know Roy after that point... Except in 1999 Roy was judge over her divorce case.

DA was initials of Roy's assistant that also signed his documents. Did she copy the signature of Roy (who did not use DA with his signature) from her divorce papers years later which was initialed with his assistant Deborah Adams?

Also notice the differences between the two "77".. Obvious differences.


https://thepolitistick.com/roy-moore-attorney-demands-gloria-allred-release-original-yearbook-contends-fraud/
...hmmm.... take a look at all the "y"'s in the text and then in the signature -- it appears that they are all the same.  I'm no t a handwriting expert of course, but it seems that it was all written by the same person ... whether or not Moore wrote it is yet to be determined.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 16, 2017, 03:08:00 am
Did this get lost in the shuffle, or just buried by the stampede to burn Moore at the stake?

https://thepolitistick.com/bombshell-roy-moore-accuser-worked-hillary-clinton-joe-biden-campaigns/?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spotim_referrer=recirculation (https://thepolitistick.com/bombshell-roy-moore-accuser-worked-hillary-clinton-joe-biden-campaigns/?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spotim_referrer=recirculation)

Quote
Deborah Wesson Gibson, one of Roy Moore’s accusers, is a member of Progressive Politics Alabama and is someone who worked on the political campaigns of both 2016 Democrat presidential nominee Hillary Clinton and former Obama regime Vice President Joe Biden, providing sign language services.

Moreover, as the leading newspaper in Alabama reports, Gibson also provides services to leading Democrats like Sen. Patrick Murphy and Bill Nelson and shared campaign fliers of Roy Moore’s Democrat opponent, Doug Jones, for the Alabama election slated for December 12.

Gibson did not respond to texts or email messages seeking a comment from AL.com about her politically-charged accusations. Other reports indicate that the accusers, Leigh Corfman and Gibson, have a history of making false allegations. Further social media posts show that Deborah Gibson was a member of the pro-Communism “Resistance” movement and was vehemently opposed to the Trump agenda, which Judge Roy Moore has vowed to support. So much so that Moore’s win, in the face of fervent establishment opposition, was called a win for the Trump agenda.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 16, 2017, 03:11:20 am
Did this get lost in the shuffle, or just buried by the stampede to burn Moore at the stake?

https://thepolitistick.com/bombshell-roy-moore-accuser-worked-hillary-clinton-joe-biden-campaigns/?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spotim_referrer=recirculation (https://thepolitistick.com/bombshell-roy-moore-accuser-worked-hillary-clinton-joe-biden-campaigns/?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation&spotim_referrer=recirculation)

Buried in the stampede! The lynch mob isn't interested!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 16, 2017, 03:15:07 am
...hmmm.... take a look at all the "y"'s in the text and then in the signature -- it appears that they are all the same.  I'm no t a handwriting expert of course, but it seems that it was all written by the same person ... whether or not Moore wrote it is yet to be determined.

I'm no expert on this kind of thing either but to me it looks like the yearbook was signed by someone named Roy and the rest was added later. It's obvious as hell when you see a color version of the picture!

(http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/DOjAmMWX4AAKs0H-600x600.jpg)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 16, 2017, 04:40:18 am
Yearbook was signed "Roy Moore DA".... In 1977 Roy was not the DA.

(https://s7.postimg.org/vnl2r6am3/Roy_Moore_Year_Book.jpg)

@CatherineofAragon

Also claimed she didn't know Roy after that point... Except in 1999 Roy was judge over her divorce case.

DA was initials of Roy's assistant that also signed his documents. Did she copy the signature of Roy (who did not use DA with his signature) from her divorce papers years later which was initialed with his assistant Deborah Adams?

Also notice the differences between the two "77".. Obvious differences.


https://thepolitistick.com/roy-moore-attorney-demands-gloria-allred-release-original-yearbook-contends-fraud/
p

@Sighlass

He was assistant DA at that time.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 16, 2017, 04:42:47 am
p

@Sighlass

He was assistant DA at that time.

@CatherineofAragon , read this thread, and watch the vid on it.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,291215.msg1516058.html#msg1516058
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 17, 2017, 01:06:51 am
@CatherineofAragon , read this thread, and watch the vid on it.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,291215.msg1516058.html#msg1516058

@roamer_1

I knew about this, but I went over to the thread and watched the video because you asked me to.  I replied to you over there, so as not to hijack the thread. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on November 17, 2017, 01:23:57 am
Leftists in America and leftists globally are bent upon tearing down Western culture, the culture that arose out of Athens. In its place they wish to erect a third world culture and civilization. Agree?

Yes.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 17, 2017, 03:51:00 am
Also yes.  Although it's perhaps more accurate to say they are exploiting Western culture with petty fascism, creating a banana Republic built on identity politics.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: aligncare on November 17, 2017, 10:06:14 am
Yes.

Thank you. For the same reason the U.S. allied itself with the odious Stalin to defeat the Nazis, we should ally ourselves with Moore to defeat the left. It’s as simple as that for me.

If we assume Moore did everything his accusers say he did, we should still not hesitate to support him, as his career in law has demonstrated a fidelity to the constitution, the protection of which is the cornerstone of our God given liberties.

And anyway, evidence is mounting that Moore is the subject of a politically motivated witch hunt, so fortunately for those of who feel personal morality trumps all, you may still take comfort in supporting him; Judge Roy Moore is no Anthony Weiner or Ted Kennedy.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 17, 2017, 02:08:14 pm
Thank you. For the same reason the U.S. allied itself with the odious Stalin to defeat the Nazis, we should ally ourselves with Moore to defeat the left. It’s as simple as that for me.

If we assume Moore did everything his accusers say he did, we should still not hesitate to support him, as his career in law has demonstrated a fidelity to the constitution, the protection of which is the cornerstone of our God given liberties.

And anyway, evidence is mounting that Moore is the subject of a politically motivated witch hunt, so fortunately for those of who feel personal morality trumps all, you may still take comfort in supporting him; Judge Roy Moore is no Anthony Weiner or Ted Kennedy.
  :amen: to the points highlighted above.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 17, 2017, 02:30:24 pm
Thank you. For the same reason the U.S. allied itself with the odious Stalin to defeat the Nazis, we should ally ourselves with Moore to defeat the left. It’s as simple as that for me.

If we assume Moore did everything his accusers say he did, we should still not hesitate to support him, as his career in law has demonstrated a fidelity to the constitution, the protection of which is the cornerstone of our God given liberties.

And anyway, evidence is mounting that Moore is the subject of a politically motivated witch hunt, so fortunately for those of who feel personal morality trumps all, you may still take comfort in supporting him; Judge Roy Moore is no Anthony Weiner or Ted Kennedy.

Neither of the people you mentioned above is in the same universe as Roy Moore when it comes to HONOR and INTEGRITY!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 17, 2017, 03:17:14 pm
Neither of the people you mentioned above is in the same universe as Roy Moore when it comes to HONOR and INTEGRITY!

Moore's deliberate defiance of the law as a sworn officer of the court,  leading to his removal from office - twice - by the State of Alabama, is hardly an example of honor and integrity.   

The man's a religious zealot who can't divorce his religion from his sworn duty to faithfully execute the law.  He's a rabble-rouser unfit for the Senate.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 17, 2017, 03:20:21 pm
Moore's deliberate defiance of the law as a sworn officer of the court,  leading to his removal from office - twice - by the State of Alabama, is hardly an example of honor and integrity.   

The man's a religious zealot who can't divorce his religion from his sworn duty to faithfully execute the law.  He's a rabble-rouser unfit for the Senate.   

YOU wouldn't know a LAW if it hit you in the ASS!  You have been repeatedly asked, by several different people including myself, to post the law that Judge Moore violated and we've seen zilch thus far!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 17, 2017, 03:41:44 pm
YOU wouldn't know a LAW if it hit you in the ASS!  You have been repeatedly asked, by several different people including myself, to post the law that Judge Moore violated and we've seen zilch thus far!

Check the record of proceedings that resulted in Moore being removed from his position TWICE by the State of Alabama for defiance of the law.   Stop being lazy and inform yourself.   

This is a Constitutional Republic grounded on respect for the rule of law.   Judge Moore is a nihilist and an outlaw.     
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 17, 2017, 03:43:50 pm
Check the record of proceedings that resulted in Moore being removed from his position TWICE by the State of Alabama for defiance of the law.   Stop being lazy and inform yourself.   

This is a Constitutional Republic grounded on respect for the rule of law.   Judge Moore is a nihilist and an outlaw.   

And YOU are nothing more than a liberal troll!  I should be kicked in the rear for responding to you in the first place and do not intend to repeat that mistake ever again!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 17, 2017, 03:58:55 pm
Thank you. For the same reason the U.S. allied itself with the odious Stalin to defeat the Nazis, we should ally ourselves with Moore to defeat the left. It’s as simple as that for me.

Prior to devoted his life to Christ it is possible that 40 years ago Roy Moore fooled
around with teenage girls. (I flat out do not believe the accuser that claimed Roy
molested her at age 14.) However Judge Moore since being born again has been a
perfect gentleman around women of all ages. Isn't not forgiveness for those that
repent and change an admirale (to admire) trait?

Judge Moore deserves our support even if the accusers are not lying because that
Moore of 40 years ago is not the Moore standing for US Senator from the great state
of Alabama.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 17, 2017, 04:03:51 pm
Moore's deliberate defiance of the law as a sworn officer of the court,  leading to his removal from office - twice - by the State of Alabama, is hardly an example of honor and integrity.   

The man's a religious zealot who can't divorce his religion from his sworn duty to faithfully execute the law.  He's a rabble-rouser unfit for the Senate.   

Those of us that believe in the supremacy of G*d's law disagree. It is immoral to follow
an immoral law. In the military we are taught NOT to follow an unlawful order. Same sex
marriage is immoral and unlawful no matter what the corrupt courts say. I know you are
not going to agree with me, but that's just the way it is to a sizeable portion of the USA.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 17, 2017, 04:05:25 pm
Those of us that believe in the supremacy of G*d's law disagree. It is immoral to follow
an immoral law. In the military we are taught NOT to follow an unlawful order. Same sex
marriage is immoral and unlawful no matter what the corrupt courts say. I know you are
not going to agree with me, but that's just the way it is to a sizeable portion of the USA.

Roy Moore has not defied ANY law moral or otherwise!  If you think he has please show me that law!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 17, 2017, 04:11:27 pm
Moore's deliberate defiance of the law as a sworn officer of the court

What law specifically did Moore defy?  You have been asked this numerous times and refused to provide a specific answer.

Because you have none.  All you have is a ruling by a court of retards in black robes who decided to amend the Constitution by redefining the First Amendment from words not written in it .  That's not a LAW. 

Moore upheld the Constitution HE swore to uphold, including the LAWS his state had passed.

The man's a religious zealot who can't divorce his religion from his sworn duty to faithfully execute the law.  He's a rabble-rouser unfit for the Senate.   

And this specifically is what you HATE more than anything in life - people who actually LIVE by their biblical faith when it contravenes the lawless debauchery you have declared holy, moral and righteous of your own accord and authority.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jpsb on November 17, 2017, 04:13:52 pm
Roy Moore has not defied ANY law moral or otherwise!  If you think he has please show me that law!

Judge Moore was (lawfully) ordered to remove the Ten Commandments from his court
room. He refused and was lawfully removed.

Judge Moore ordered court clerks not to issue a marriage license for same sex
couples. He was (lawfully) ordered to issue them. He refused and was lawfully
removed.

I personally agree with Judge Moore on both issues. However the secular left rules the
courts and makes the law.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: EdJames on November 17, 2017, 04:25:20 pm
YOU wouldn't know a LAW if it hit you in the ASS!  You have been repeatedly asked, by several different people including myself, to post the law that Judge Moore violated and we've seen zilch thus far!

I submit that you are sending this fellow on a wild goose chase!

No such "law" exists.  (The ruminations of Supreme Court members, in particular when they distort the US Constitution in pursuit of establishing public policy, do not create "law.")

In my opinion, Judge Moore was protecting the amended State of Alabama Constitution, as was his sworn duty.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 17, 2017, 04:54:17 pm
I submit that you are sending this fellow on a wild goose chase!

No such "law" exists.  (The ruminations of Supreme Court members, in particular when they distort the US Constitution in pursuit of establishing public policy, do not create "law.")

In my opinion, Judge Moore was protecting the amended State of Alabama Constitution, as was his sworn duty.

EXACTLY right! just as his oath of office REQUIRED him to do!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 17, 2017, 04:54:22 pm
And this specifically is what you HATE more than anything in life - people who actually LIVE by their biblical faith

I have no quarrel with folks who "live by their biblical faith" - just when they seek to impose their myths and zealotry on the rest of us.   Don't like homosexuality?  Don't practice it.   Same sex CIVIL marriage is no threat to you, your marriage, or your religion.   It's a contract, and gays have the right to marry under the civil law by reason of the 14th amendment.   THAT's the law that Moore defied. 

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 17, 2017, 04:58:52 pm
Moore's deliberate defiance of the law as a sworn officer of the court,  leading to his removal from office - twice - by the State of Alabama, is hardly an example of honor and integrity.   

The man's a religious zealot who can't divorce his religion from his sworn duty to faithfully execute the law.  He's a rabble-rouser unfit for the Senate.   
For the umpteenth time by the umpteenth person, WHAT LAW?  Courts don't make law, although some think they do.  So again, WHAT LAW?

And to add to that, Article III, Section 2 of the US Constitution says only the SCOTUS has original jurisdiction over matter involving the States, Federal District Judges have NONE!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: SirLinksALot on November 17, 2017, 05:09:03 pm
I have no quarrel with folks who "live by their biblical faith" - just when they seek to impose their myths and zealotry on the rest of us.   Don't like homosexuality?  Don't practice it.

Don't want your business to service gay weddings because it is against your faith? Can I decline without government stepping in and suing me to bankruptcy?

If not, who is imposing whose values on others?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 17, 2017, 05:21:25 pm
I have no quarrel with folks who "live by their biblical faith" - just when they seek to impose their myths and zealotry on the rest of us.

Bullshit, and nearly everyone on this board knows and understands that fact about you.  Because in your tyrannical hedonist mindset, those of us who call homosexuals perverts who engage in illicit sex, as being 'bigots' and 'criminal's your estimations -  of which you have said you want the government to punish.

So don't go pulling that bullshit out your mouth to suggest you have no quarrel with Christians who live by biblical faith - YES YOU DO.

Proof is the fact that Christians who own businesses can be forced by courts and government to disobey their God, and use their talents to serve homosexual celebrations according to you.  YOU are a pusher of a Mark of the Beast - who openly stated that if Christians do not think and act according to the way Sodomites and their lackeys on the courts demand - they cannot make a living.

Don't like homosexuality?  Don't practice it.

Not only do Christians not practice it - we refuse to serve it or cater to it.  And THAT is what pisses you off to the point you advocate the government be used to punish.

   Same sex CIVIL marriage is no threat to you, your marriage, or your religion.

Bullshit. Tell that to churches and pastors being 'sued' for "hate speech' in reading the passages of scripture in both Testaments that define homosexuality as an abominable sin.  Tell that to Christian cake bakers, photographers, stationers, card makers and flower arrangers.  Homosexual activists have publicly declared they intend to target and destroy churches who do not accept their behavior.

It's a contract, and gays have the right to marry under the civil law by reason of the 14th amendment.   THAT's the law that Moore defied.

I do not find the words "homosexual", "Gay", "Sodomites" "Marriage" in the wording of the 14th Amendment.  Must be hidden in the same place Abortion as a right is hidden.

Don't want your business to service gay weddings because it is against your faith? Can I decline without government stepping in and suing me to bankruptcy?

If not, who is imposing whose values on others?

His response has been that if you do not want serve homosexual events, then do not be in business to make a living that Homosexuals want to be served by.

In other words, a Mark of the Beast - think and act as Jazzhead and his fellow hedonists demand, or you cannot be in business.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 17, 2017, 05:46:00 pm
The ban on same sex marriage is in the Alabama Constitution.  As such, only the Supreme Court of the US has original jurisdiction to declare it unconstitutional, in accordance with Article III, Section 2.  Otherwise no two bit Federal District Judge has jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on November 17, 2017, 05:49:40 pm
Thank you. For the same reason the U.S. allied itself with the odious Stalin to defeat the Nazis, we should ally ourselves with Moore to defeat the left. It’s as simple as that for me.

If we assume Moore did everything his accusers say he did, we should still not hesitate to support him, as his career in law has demonstrated a fidelity to the constitution, the protection of which is the cornerstone of our God given liberties.

And anyway, evidence is mounting that Moore is the subject of a politically motivated witch hunt, so fortunately for those of who feel personal morality trumps all, you may still take comfort in supporting him; Judge Roy Moore is no Anthony Weiner or Ted Kennedy.

Thank you.  That sounds like an honest, thoughtful, and respectful offering...and if is...then who am I to judge the wisdom or legitimacy of your opinion?
I see it differently.  I see a party that has abandoned the communist left and socialist middle and gotten into bed with the Nazis...and I in NO WAY wish to imply you are a Nazi...just that you see a bigger danger from leftist Americans than from skinheads who march in rural America denouncing Jews, and scripture quoting pedophiles.

Again...I know this is not how you see things...your post to me is eloquent and persuasive in its...for lack of a better term...moderation.

It is just how I see things.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 17, 2017, 05:58:19 pm
The ban on same sex marriage is in the Alabama Constitution.  As such, only the Supreme Court of the US has original jurisdiction to declare it unconstitutional, in accordance with Article III, Section 2.  Otherwise no two bit Federal District Judge has jurisdiction.

The State of Alabama disagrees with you.  It booted Moore from office for his insubordination. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 17, 2017, 06:15:34 pm
The State of Alabama disagrees with you.  It booted Moore from office for his insubordination.
You are wrong again.  He was IMPROPERLY removed by a Judicial Ethics board for failing to obey a federal court order.  Insubordination implies he worked for the federal judge as his boss.  The removal was improper because the Federal Judge had no authority or jurisdiction.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Formerly Once-Ler on November 17, 2017, 06:29:10 pm
You are wrong again.  He was IMPROPERLY removed by a Judicial Ethics board for failing to obey a federal court order.  Insubordination implies he worked for the federal judge as his boss.  The removal was improper because the Federal Judge had no authority or jurisdiction.

Well then, certainly Moore explained this and was not removed.  Or was he removed?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 18, 2017, 12:22:17 am
Moore's deliberate defiance of the law as a sworn officer of the court, 

Once again, what law did he defy?  Your intentional avoidance of the question indicates that you know full well your claim is a lie.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 18, 2017, 12:26:09 am
I have no quarrel with folks who "live by their biblical faith" - just when they seek to impose their myths and zealotry on the rest of us.

Yet you have no problem imposing your own humanist zealotry upon the rest of us.  Hypocrite much?

See, this is yet another thing that separates me from you.  I believe the people should have the freedom and the right to shape their society as they see fit.  And you do not.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: catfish1957 on November 18, 2017, 01:07:53 am
  I believe the people should have the freedom and the right to shape their society as they see fit.  And you do not.

I also find it hypocritical that in some cases "that right to shape"  takes the form of zealotry that creates unneeded impositions.

Everyone has their own right to what ever faith they have.  THAT DOES NOT Mean everyone wants to hear it.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 18, 2017, 01:20:28 am
Prior to devoted his life to Christ it is possible that 40 years ago Roy Moore fooled
around with teenage girls. (I flat out do not believe the accuser that claimed Roy
molested her at age 14.) However Judge Moore since being born again has been a
perfect gentleman around women of all ages. Isn't not forgiveness for those that
repent and change an admirale (to admire) trait?

Judge Moore deserves our support even if the accusers are not lying because that
Moore of 40 years ago is not the Moore standing for US Senator from the great state
of Alabama.

We're in the middle of a culture-wide witchhunt for perpetrators of "sexual harassment",  and Moore's been caught up in it.  It's besmirched or taken down men on both the left and the right.    It is now de riguere for jock culture to be held up,  as if in the old Soviet days,  for denouncement and criticism/self-criticism.   Most of the liberals caught up in it are playing the game,  admitting and apologizing for incorrect behavior.   

Moore, of course, has chosen to fight back.   

Moore is, simply, a raised middle finger,  to the prevailing culture and to the rule of law he once swore to uphold.    He will become, for better or for worse, the symbol that will define conservatism,  the easy bigoted, nihilist caricature the Dems will raise millions off of and provide the theme for their takeover of Congress in 2018.

Know well that by backing this guy's fight, that conservatives will reap the whirlwind.   Shall we abandon all pretense of responsible governance in favor of rabble rousing for a culture war?   I resist that paradigm, think it's sick and un-American,  and wonder if conservatism has indeed split irrevocably between the Bannonites and those of us old-school types who want to get back to the ideals of Goldwater, Kemp and Reagan.     
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 18, 2017, 02:40:00 am
@Jazzhead

What law did Judge Moore defy?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 18, 2017, 03:10:18 am
What law did Judge Moore defy?

The "Law" that judges make up out of thin air.

"Laws" they decide by decree and establish by precedent and without accountability.  Laws set in concrete unless as he stated, Congress overturns them by legislation.

What the courts rule in favor of abortion, homosexuality, healthcare and confiscatory taxation is forever binding and supreme since he agrees with it.  God and nature's laws and millennia of civilized institutions are irrelevant in his eyes, as are your rights and mine unless they comport with his beliefs that we must think as he does about behaviors and practices and needs and dependencies.

Otherwise we are 'bigots' he has promised to advocate government 'punish'.

I've said  this before - People like Jazzhead are exactly the reason why we have a Second Amendment.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 18, 2017, 03:34:58 am
We're in the middle of a culture-wide witchhunt for perpetrators of "sexual harassment",  and Moore's been caught up in it.  It's besmirched or taken down men on both the left and the right.    It is now de riguere for jock culture to be held up,  as if in the old Soviet days,  for denouncement and criticism/self-criticism.   Most of the liberals caught up in it are playing the game,  admitting and apologizing for incorrect behavior.   

Moore, of course, has chosen to fight back.   

Moore is, simply, a raised middle finger,  to the prevailing culture and to the rule of law he once swore to uphold.    He will become, for better or for worse, the symbol that will define conservatism,  the easy bigoted, nihilist caricature the Dems will raise millions off of and provide the theme for their takeover of Congress in 2018.

Know well that by backing this guy's fight, that conservatives will reap the whirlwind.   Shall we abandon all pretense of responsible governance in favor of rabble rousing for a culture war?   I resist that paradigm, think it's sick and un-American,  and wonder if conservatism has indeed split irrevocably between the Bannonites and those of us old-school types who want to get back to the ideals of Goldwater, Kemp and Reagan.   

He upheld the Constitution of the State of Alabama, approved by 81% of voters in the State, in the face of a single Federal District Judge's edict. The defense of marriage amendment had been in place for roughly ten years, law of the State, before one person in a robe gave the State of Alabama, its Constitution, and 81% of the voters the finger.

Moore stood up for the Law, The State of Alabama, its Constitution and an overwhelming majority of its voters.

Just because you don't like that he stood up for the biblical, and traditional in Western Culture concept of marriage, does not make him an evil person. We disagree on the issue, so it's no surprise we disagree on Judge Moore's rulings and orders to his subordinates. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 18, 2017, 04:38:51 am
The "Law" that judges make up out of thin air.

"Laws" they decide by decree and establish by precedent and without accountability.  Laws set in concrete unless as he stated, Congress overturns them by legislation.

In other words, Judge Moore stood up against tyranny.  That explains why Jazzhead, one of tyranny's biggest supporters, doesn't like him.  Not sure why he feels compelled to lie about Moore, though.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 18, 2017, 06:39:08 am
In other words, Judge Moore stood up against tyranny.  That explains why Jazzhead, one of tyranny's biggest supporters, doesn't like him.  Not sure why he feels compelled to lie about Moore, though.

Like all Leftists, Jazzy operates via ends justifies means, even though he will deny it - his own arguments from Abortion, to ObamaCare to Homo Marriage to taxation, illustrate that fact.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 18, 2017, 03:52:11 pm
In other words, Judge Moore stood up against tyranny.  That explains why Jazzhead, one of tyranny's biggest supporters, doesn't like him.  Not sure why he feels compelled to lie about Moore, though.

The man's made a fool of himself, and so have his supporters trying to defend him.   He was removed from office twice for breaking his oath of office.   By the State of Alabama.   

What "tyranny"?   That's such bullshit.   The law changed to allow gay folks to marry.   Nothing to take away anyone's rights or property.   No harm to anyone else's marriage, or family, or faith, or wealth or privilege.   Gay folks were allowed to marry under the CIVIL law.    And Judge Moore refused to enforce it,  acting as if the State of Alabama was a theocracy and to hell with the rule of law. 

To hell with rogue Judge Moore and his self-styled crusade to impose his stinking morals on the rest of us.    Peggy Noonan had it dead right this morning -  since the men of Alabama are prepared to prostrate themselves before this altar of ugliness,  it is up to the women of Alabama to rise up and insist on a real Republican, a real conservative - of which there are plenty of good ones in Alabama.


 Alabama Women - Say No to Roy Moore, by Peggy Noonan  (https://www.wsj.com/articles/alabama-women-say-no-to-roy-moorealabama-women-say-no-to-roy-moore-1510875446)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: EdJames on November 18, 2017, 03:58:07 pm
I hear that Geraldo Rivera is thinking about retiring, you could be a dead ringer replacement for him.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Oceander on November 18, 2017, 04:28:37 pm
Once again, what law did he defy?  Your intentional avoidance of the question indicates that you know full well your claim is a lie.

The Constitution, which by its terms is the supreme law of the land.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 18, 2017, 04:32:09 pm
To satisfy Jazzy, I wonder how many lib jobs the Dems will try to bus over from Atlanta or Tallahassee to try and vote illegally in the Alabama election?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 18, 2017, 04:35:17 pm
The Constitution, which by its terms is the supreme law of the land.
He did NOT violate the Constitution, either the US or Alabama's.  He defended both the constitutions and was improperly remove for that reason because some wacko Federal District judge thought he had jurisdiction in contravention to the US Constitution (Art III, Sec 2).
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 18, 2017, 05:00:36 pm
The man's made a fool of himself, and so have his supporters trying to defend him.   He was removed from office twice for breaking his oath of office.   By the State of Alabama.

@Jazzhead

That's beautiful and all, but it does not address your earlier repeated claim.  Again, what law did he defy?  Or are you ready to come clean and admit the truth that he did not violate the law.


What "tyranny"?   That's such bullshit.

You have openly advocated again and again and again that the rule of law should be discarded for the tyranny imposed by unelected judges wearing black robes.  Your record speaks for itself.


The law changed to allow gay folks to marry.   

Not in California.  In fact the California Constitution specifically sanctions marriage as being between one man and one woman.  Yet you really don't give a damn about the law at all.  Instead, you demand that Vermont law be imposed upon California by black-robed tyrants - at least as long as you support what they are doing.  Yet that same rule doesn't apply when it comes to California law being imposed upon Vermont.

(See:  Tyranny above)


Nothing to take away anyone's rights or property.   No harm to anyone else's marriage, or family, or faith, or wealth or privilege.

Nothing taken away except for the freedom to establish their own laws per the Constitution of the United States of America - something else you oppose.


Gay folks were allowed to marry under the CIVIL law.    And Judge Moore refused to enforce it,  acting as if the State of Alabama was a theocracy and to hell with the rule of law.

Alabama law does not sanction same-sex marriage.  Moore upheld the law.  The only one saying the hell with the rule of law here is you.


To hell with rogue Judge Moore and his self-styled crusade to impose his stinking morals on the rest of us.

To hell with you imposing your morals on the rest of us.  Again, the difference between me and you is that I have no problem letting Alabama, or Vermont, or California enact their own laws regarding marriage.  In contrast, you oppose that.  You seek to deny that right to those states, choosing instead tyranny.

I am willing to take my chances with what the people decide.  You on the other hand see the people as the enemy here, not to be trusted with the right to choose their own governing laws.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 18, 2017, 05:03:59 pm

Quote from: Hoodat
Once again, what law did he defy?  Your intentional avoidance of the question indicates that you know full well your claim is a lie.

The Constitution, which by its terms is the supreme law of the land.

@Oceander

Which part exactly?   Please be specific.  I am definitely interested to see where the Constitution allows Vermont law to be imposed upon the rest of the States at the point of a gun.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 18, 2017, 05:24:15 pm
I wouldn't gloat at Jazzhead too much, in the end, people have stood on the same side as he has because they have been against the Republican nominee.  Time to adjust your halos.

I've defended Romney, Dubya, virtually everyone and voted for them. John McCain is the only one I seriously disagreed with.

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 18, 2017, 05:26:51 pm
The Constitution, which by its terms is the supreme law of the land.

This is all sophisticated talk for one like me. What we do know, if I have this correct, is that the Alabama Supreme Court itself removed Moore so, I doubt if we can say the liberal Supreme Court (signifying a number of Judges) did this as say, if we were talking about a deep blue state.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 18, 2017, 05:34:56 pm
I wouldn't gloat at Jazzhead too much, in the end, people have stood on the same side as he has because they have been against the Republican nominee.  Time to adjust your halos.

You will never see me standing on the same side with Tyranny.  I will stand by the Constitution instead.


Article 4, Sec 4

The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government


Republic - a government in which supreme power is held by the citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives governing according to law
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Oceander on November 18, 2017, 05:51:02 pm
The Constitution, which by its terms is the supreme law of the land.


@Oceander

Which part exactly?   Please be specific.  I am definitely interested to see where the Constitution allows Vermont law to be imposed upon the rest of the States at the point of a gun.

You’re such a liberal. You don’t like the way the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution and you immediately run off and cry tyranny.  You call it tyranny, liberals call it a “living Constitution” but it all amounts to the same thing. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 18, 2017, 05:58:07 pm
Judge Moore was removed 2 times as well, once for that 10 commandments incident. Again, I just read the news, I don't know the mechanics of the whole story.  It was the Supreme Court of Alabama that removed him.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 18, 2017, 07:36:57 pm
Judge Moore was removed 2 times as well, once for that 10 commandments incident. Again, I just read the news, I don't know the mechanics of the whole story.  It was the Supreme Court of Alabama that removed him.
Not! It was the state Judicial Ethics Commission.  And they misrepresented his constitutional duties.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 18, 2017, 07:37:34 pm
You’re such a liberal. You don’t like the way the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution  .  .  .

Your argument is based upon the erroneous assumption that the Constitution was interpreted.  It wasn't.  Instead, it was completely ignored.


.  .  .  and you immediately run off and cry tyranny.

I cry 'tyranny' precisely because the Constitution was ignored.  I cry 'tyranny' because a federal court imposed it's will upon the people of the State of California without regard to the wording of the Constitution, and contrary to the wishes of the inhabitants of that State.  And I cry 'tyranny' because there is no equal protection here - because I see that same court completely abandon that argument when it comes to gun ownership or motorcycle helmet laws.

Just because you choose to call something 'constitutional' does not make it so.  You have to dive into the wording and produce supporting evidence from that document.  Because without it, you are doing EXACTLY what liberals do.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 18, 2017, 09:43:00 pm
You’re such a liberal. You don’t like the way the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution and you immediately run off and cry tyranny.  You call it tyranny, liberals call it a “living Constitution” but it all amounts to the same thing.
what constitutional clause allows courts to strike down and rewrite law on false premise?
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 19, 2017, 12:34:15 am
Not! It was the state Judicial Ethics Commission.  And they misrepresented his constitutional duties.

Okay, whatever the state oversight organization is. Anyway, they are the state apparently.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 19, 2017, 02:34:25 am
You’re such a liberal. You don’t like the way the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution and you immediately run off and cry tyranny.  You call it tyranny, liberals call it a “living Constitution” but it all amounts to the same thing.
Moore's act of defiance was toward the decree of a District Judge, essentially ordering probate judges in Alabama to violate the State Constitution. The SCOTUS ruling was two years later.

The Constitutional Amendment in Alabama defining marriage as a union of one man and one woman was from 2006, and had received 81% approval at the polls. I would say the law was established, and the people had spoken on the issue. 

When California Proposition 187 was overturned by a District Court, negating the votes of a mere 59% of Californians to stop providing public funded services to illegals, Conservatives raised unholy hell at the idea that a District Judge could overturn the will of the people.

When Moore defies such a ruling on a Constitutional amendment approved by 81% of the electorate, "conservatives" are excoriating him for "violating law"?

I think people need to decide how much weight to give Federal District Judges in matters against State Constitutions. In this case, if the matter is between the Federal Government and the State, the SCOTUS is the place to try the question. Even then, the question of Federal vs National Government comes into play.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 19, 2017, 02:43:28 am
You have openly advocated again and again and again that the rule of law should be discarded for the tyranny imposed by unelected judges wearing black robes.  Your record speaks for itself.

Instead, you demand that Vermont law be imposed upon California by black-robed tyrants - at least as long as you support what they are doing.  Yet that same rule doesn't apply when it comes to California law being imposed upon Vermont.

Your assessment is correct.

To wit: if anyone recalls and remembers, Jazzy specifically stated his opposition to "Texas gun culture" being imposed on his state via rulings and efforts approving national carry-conceal.  He was quite out of his mind in rage that the exercise of the Second Amendment without infringement would be upheld nationally.  Amusing to say the least considering he has repeatedly stated that all our enumerated rights are subject to 'reasonable regulation' (as determined by liberals like himself) - while at the same time, insisting the "rights' created by SCOTUS are beyond review and, unless the Congress overturns a ruling via legislation that the court does not rule unConstitutional; 'the law of the land'.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: txradioguy on November 20, 2017, 03:42:33 pm
In other words, Judge Moore stood up against tyranny.  That explains why Jazzhead, one of tyranny's biggest supporters, doesn't like him.  Not sure why he feels compelled to lie about Moore, though.

If he used an accurate quote of what Moore said it would ruin his rant.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 01:02:16 pm

To wit: if anyone recalls and remembers, Jazzy specifically stated his opposition to "Texas gun culture" being imposed on his state via rulings and efforts approving national carry-conceal.  He was quite out of his mind in rage that the exercise of the Second Amendment without infringement would be upheld nationally.  Amusing to say the least considering he has repeatedly stated that all our enumerated rights are subject to 'reasonable regulation' (as determined by liberals like himself) - while at the same time, insisting the "rights' created by SCOTUS are beyond review and, unless the Congress overturns a ruling via legislation that the court does not rule unConstitutional; 'the law of the land'.

The states are sovereign entities that have chosen to confederate under the umbrella of the Constitution.   To that end,  each state can reasonably regulate firearms as they see fit, and there is no requirement of uniformity since firearms possession is intrinsically a local concern.  So, yes,  Philadelphia ought to have the right to reject the trappings of Texas gun culture if it determines that open carry in the public square is inappropriate.    And a Texan traveling to Philly with a firearm (or vice versa) should be subject to local laws,  just as he is when purchasing/consuming alcohol.   

Now the Second Amendment applies to the states and places an absolute restriction on the ability to regulate.  As explained in Heller,  the state can regulate, but cannot deny the right of self-defense which is the purpose of the RKBA.   Hence, a ban on handguns is unconstitutional - but not a regime of registration and insurance,  except to the extent such regime is so onerous as to effectively deny the fundamental right.

And that's why marriage equality is the law of the land.   The Constitutional right at stake is the equal protection of the law.   And a state that chooses to ban the right of gays to marry under the civil law, while preserving that status for opposite sex couples,  has denied homosexuals the law's equal protection.    That violation of the federal Constitution is why Roy Moore was removed from office for refusing to permit gays to marry in Alabama.   Alabama's constitution may define marriage as between a man and a woman, but that constitution violates the Federal Constitution's guarantee of equal protection. 

So there's no contradiction in my positions -  Pennsylvania's gun laws are consistent with the Federal Constitution, but Alabama's prohibition on same sex civil marriage is not.     
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: driftdiver on November 21, 2017, 01:44:28 pm

And that's why marriage equality is the law of the land.   The Constitutional right at stake is the equal protection of the law.   And a state that chooses to ban the right of gays to marry under the civil law, while preserving that status for opposite sex couples,  has denied homosexuals the law's equal protection.    That violation of the federal Constitution is why Roy Moore was removed from office for refusing to permit gays to marry in Alabama.   Alabama's constitution may define marriage as between a man and a woman, but that constitution violates the Federal Constitution's guarantee of equal protection. 

So there's no contradiction in my positions -  Pennsylvania's gun laws are consistent with the Federal Constitution, but Alabama's prohibition on same sex civil marriage is not.   

Equal protection is the excuse activist judges used to push through the radical agenda.  In reality we had equal protection, any man could marry any woman and any woman could marry any man.     When you start throwing in personal preference then the law gets tossed out.   Polygamy is already moving forward.   Incestuous will be coming.   Dogs cats, trees and anything else someone says they "love".

No, you are full of contradictions and one of many that are paving the road to destruction of this country.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 01:56:59 pm
Equal protection is the excuse activist judges used to push through the radical agenda.  In reality we had equal protection, any man could marry any woman and any woman could marry any man.     When you start throwing in personal preference then the law gets tossed out.   Polygamy is already moving forward.   Incestuous will be coming.   Dogs cats, trees and anything else someone says they "love".

No, you are full of contradictions and one of many that are paving the road to destruction of this country.

Denying gays the right to the benefits, protections and status of civil marriage is a violation of equal protection.  Yes, the culture has changed,  and some religions continue to condemn homosexuality,  but come on now - my neighbors are no threat to anyone else and deserve the same opportunity as you and me to be happy in a covenant relationship with the person they love.   

"Road to destruction"?  Don't be ridiculous - my neighbors tend their yard and walk my dog when I'm away.   I reject slippery slope arguments as false and oppressive.   If the issue is personal morality, then address divorce and promiscuity,  and display some respect for those of us who've done the hard work to make a marriage work -whether gay or straight.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: driftdiver on November 21, 2017, 02:01:20 pm
Denying gays the right to the benefits, protections and status of civil marriage is a violation of equal protection.  Yes, the culture has changed,  and some religions continue to condemn homosexuality,  but come on now - my neighbors are no threat to anyone else and deserve the same opportunity as you and me to be happy in a covenant relationship with the person they love.   

"Road to destruction"?  Don't be ridiculous - my neighbors tend their yard and walk my dog when I'm away.   I reject slippery slope arguments as false and oppressive.   If the issue is personal morality, then address divorce and promiscuity,  and display some respect for those of us who've done the hard work to make a marriage work -whether gay or straight.

Nonsense, they could have all that just like every one else.   More lies from the radicals.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 02:03:53 pm
Nonsense, they could have all that just like every one else.   More lies from the radicals.

It's the law of the land.   Why should you and me have the benefits and protections of marriage but not my neighbors?   How is fundamental fairness  - the equal protection of the law - a "radical" notion? 

There is nothing that pleases me more than to see young people reject the idea that religion should serve to oppress people.   No,  that doesn't mean they've rejected Christianity, only that they view Christ's message in terms of acceptance and respect, not knee-jerk condemnation of two people living responsibly because of some stray passage in an ancient book.       
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Restored on November 21, 2017, 02:04:30 pm
"Denying gays the right to the benefits, protections and status of civil marriage is a violation of equal protection.  "

No one denied gays of anything. I know lots of gay people who got married 30-40 years ago. Most had children in those marriages. One of my pastors was married to a gay man and had two children with him.

So quit pushing that weak and inane optic.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 02:10:45 pm
"Denying gays the right to the benefits, protections and status of civil marriage is a violation of equal protection.  "

No one denied gays of anything. I know lots of gay people who got married 30-40 years ago. Most had children in those marriages. One of my pastors was married to a gay man and had two children with him.

So quit pushing that weak and inane optic.

Thank God that doesn't need to happen anymore.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: driftdiver on November 21, 2017, 02:11:14 pm
It's the law of the land.   Why should you have the benefits and protections of marriage but not my neighbors?   How is fundamental fairness a "radical" notion?   

Your neighbors had that right before activtism took over.   Any man could marry any woman and any woman could marry any man

If "benefits" was truly the goal it would have been easy to change the law to allow hospital visitation or such things.  No you all had to go for the one thing you knew would be an attack on Christians and the foundation of this country.

BTW, where in the Constitution are we guaranteed 'fairness"?  Who defines fairness?    Face it we've become a nation of men and the rule of law is whatever they say it is or isn't.   Thus dies a once great nation.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: driftdiver on November 21, 2017, 02:12:48 pm
It's the law of the land.   Why should you and me have the benefits and protections of marriage but not my neighbors?   How is fundamental fairness  - the equal protection of the law - a "radical" notion? 

There is nothing that pleases me more than to see young people reject the idea that religion should serve to oppress people.   No,  that doesn't mean they've rejected Christianity, only that they view Christ's message in terms of acceptance and respect, not knee-jerk condemnation of two people living responsibly because of some stray passage in an ancient book.     

limiting marriage to one man and one woman used to be "the law of the land".    until activists took over. Funny how hypocritical the lefties are with that phrase.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 21, 2017, 03:13:22 pm
No,  that doesn't mean they've rejected Christianity, only that they view Christ's message in terms of acceptance and respect, not knee-jerk condemnation of two people living responsibly because of some stray passage in an ancient book.     

'Stray passage in an ancient book'.

So tell us then you who are so-wise in his own eyes, where is the 'stray passages' that state a message from Jesus that everyone must accept and respect homosexuality and those engaged in committing abomination and wickedness as the bible itself defined it?????

This mythical 'message of acceptance and respect' is as unscriptural and bogus as are your perversions of the Constitution you cite to impose your brand of tyranny.  They exist only in your own mind and in the minds of other tyrant-pushers and hedonists who follow the prince and power of the air as you do.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Restored on November 21, 2017, 03:16:52 pm
Thank God that doesn't need to happen anymore.

Don't kid yourself. It happens all the time. People's sexuality changes over time. That how you can marry a woman, have 6 kids with her and then decide you are now exclusively attracted to men.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 21, 2017, 03:23:05 pm
It was again hilarious to read Jazzy fall right into the trap of justifying his hypocrisy on this issue.   

Hoodat NAILED him point-blank and he picked it ups and ran with his inane justifications of unmitigated bullshit to justify the tyranny he pushes.

Quote
You have openly advocated again and again and again that the rule of law should be discarded for the tyranny imposed by unelected judges wearing black robes.  Your record speaks for itself.

Instead, you demand that Vermont law be imposed upon California by black-robed tyrants - at least as long as you support what they are doing.  Yet that same rule doesn't apply when it comes to California law being imposed upon Vermont. (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,290914.msg1518726.html#msg1518726)

And here this morning, he goes to great lengths to justify that hypocrisy.

It's what tyrants and their mobs of sycophants do.

And it is precisely why we have a Second Amendment, to defend ourselves against such tyrants.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 03:32:37 pm
No hypocrisy, sir.   Alabama's constitution doesn't Trump the federal Constitution and its guarantee of equal protection.  Gays can marry, thank God, and you can't do a damn thing about it except to mouth empty threats of violence.   
    *****rollingeyes*****
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 21, 2017, 03:33:52 pm
Denying gays the right to the benefits, protections and status of civil marriage is a violation of equal protection.  Yes, the culture has changed,  and some religions continue to condemn homosexuality,  but come on now - my neighbors are no threat to anyone else and deserve the same opportunity as you and me to be happy in a covenant relationship with the person they love.   

"Road to destruction"?  Don't be ridiculous - my neighbors tend their yard and walk my dog when I'm away.   I reject slippery slope arguments as false and oppressive.   If the issue is personal morality, then address divorce and promiscuity,  and display some respect for those of us who've done the hard work to make a marriage work -whether gay or straight.

Problem is now they are trying to extend the same rights to transgenders, which is a strictly psychological designation and has no basis in science. Yet they are trying to impose their nebulous gender fluidity via the law upon us despite the fact they have no solid factual ground to stand on.

Not to mention that 'marriage equality' is quite selective as is 'identity'. Only those marriages recognized by the State are legal, as are identities. Those that aren't do not have legal status. So the 'equal protection' you cite is selective protection and not equal at all. It's only those who fall within a certain political agenda that are protected.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 21, 2017, 03:36:48 pm
It was again hilarious to read Jazzy fall right into the trap of justifying his hypocrisy on this issue.   

Hoodat NAILED him point-blank and he picked it ups and ran with his inane justifications of unmitigated bullshit to justify the tyranny he pushes.

And here this morning, he goes to great lengths to justify that hypocrisy.

It's what tyrants and their mobs of sycophants do.

And it is precisely why we have a Second Amendment, to defend ourselves against such tyrants.

While I personally lack the patience to deal with his sophistry I'm very glad that we have people around who do! 

GREAT post!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 21, 2017, 05:04:03 pm
The states are sovereign entities that have chosen to confederate under the umbrella of the Constitution.   To that end,  each state can reasonably regulate firearms as they see fit, and there is no requirement of uniformity since firearms possession is intrinsically a local concern.  So, yes,  Philadelphia ought to have the right to reject the trappings of Texas gun culture if it determines that open carry in the public square is inappropriate.    And a Texan traveling to Philly with a firearm (or vice versa) should be subject to local laws,  just as he is when purchasing/consuming alcohol.   



This is highly amusing.   For someone with whom i've gone round and round about the inappropriateness of using the 14th amendment to apply Federal restrictions to the states regarding religion,   you are seemingly all in favor of taking the "state's rights"  position regarding the second amendment.   


How is it appropriate to require the states to ban religion under the pretension that Federal requirements apply to the states,   but to reject this same claim when discussing the second amendment?   


You can't have it both ways.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 21, 2017, 05:08:34 pm
Denying gays the right to the benefits, protections and status of civil marriage is a violation of equal protection. 



It is not.  Homosexuals are "non compos mentis"  and legally not in their right minds.   They couldn't "consent" according to the law up until Kook judges came along and declared that they could. 

The Kook judges upended normal law,  and substituted their kookery,  and then declared it to be "the law."   





Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 21, 2017, 05:15:27 pm
No hypocrisy, sir.   Alabama's constitution doesn't Trump the federal Constitution and its guarantee of equal protection.


No it doesn 't,  but the US Constitution does not recognize marriage between anyone other than a single man and a single woman.   


I do not care that modern lying kook bat judge say otherwise,  reality and history contradict their claims. 

Justice Kennedy was the deciding vote.   He's a nit-wit kook,  and we do not have to respect his single handed changing of the law in contradiction to the 200+ years of this nation's existence. 



We should deliberately defy any efforts to re-define our laws in contradiction with the principle "consent of the governed."   


We did not consent.   



Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 21, 2017, 05:16:23 pm
These are matters of jurisprudence, but one can't tell me that Alabama is a liberal state and it was their governmental committee, someone said "ethics committee" that removed Moore 2 times.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 05:43:03 pm

This is highly amusing.   For someone with whom i've gone round and round about the inappropriateness of using the 14th amendment to apply Federal restrictions to the states regarding religion,   you are seemingly all in favor of taking the "state's rights"  position regarding the second amendment.   


How is it appropriate to require the states to ban religion under the pretension that Federal requirements apply to the states,   but to reject this same claim when discussing the second amendment?   


You can't have it both ways.

There's no contradiction.   The Second Amendment trumps state laws that would infringe the rights of gun owners.  The 14th Amendment trumps state laws that would deny the law's equal protection.   

Plenty of state gun laws are, of course, perfectly Constitutional - that's because the Second Amendment has always been construed to permit reasonable regulation.  But a state law that denies its citizens equal protection is  per se unConstitutional.

If Alabama wants to provide benefits and protections to straight couples who marry under the civil law, it must extend those same rights and protections to gay couples.   That's the law of the land - equal protection.  That's the Constitution's restriction on the arbitrary exercise of government.   But individuals aren't so constrained - so don't worry, gentle Christians -  the First Amendment protects religious bigotry.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 05:45:56 pm

We did not consent.   

You have no right to consent.  This isn't a democracy ruled by religious mobs, it's a Constitutional republic.   The power of government is constrained - it cannot deny the law's equal protection. 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 21, 2017, 07:06:06 pm
There's no contradiction.   


:)


The Second Amendment trumps state laws that would infringe the rights of gun owners. 


It does indeed do that,  because it says "the rights of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "   

I note it has no wiggle room for state law exceptions. 

It does not even need the 14th amendment to apply it to the people.   It already applies to all the people,  regardless of what state in which they live. 




Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 21, 2017, 07:08:51 pm
You have no right to consent.


The entire premise of this government is built on legitimacy through the consent of the governed.   





  This isn't a democracy ruled by religious mobs, it's a Constitutional republic.   The power of government is constrained - it cannot deny the law's equal protection.


It did so for "four score and seven years",  and you are trying to tell me a constitutional Republic cannot?   You need to revisit your history.   They did it.   

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 07:15:36 pm

The entire premise of this government is built on legitimacy through the consent of the governed.   


You are still favoring democracy when you know darn well this isn't a democracy but a Constitutional republic.    Some things aren't to be taken away by a majoritarian mob - religion-fueled or otherwise.  One of those things is the law's equal protection.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 21, 2017, 07:24:17 pm
You are still favoring democracy when you know darn well this isn't a democracy but a Constitutional republic.    Some things aren't to be taken away by a majoritarian mob - religion-fueled or otherwise.  One of those things is the law's equal protection.


All I can do is restate my previous point regarding slavery under a constitutional Republic.   Slavery is the ultimate in denying "equal protection."   Therefore denying "equal protection"  is not inconsistent with a Constitutional Republic.   

You may argue that it is inconsistent with the 14th amendment,  but that is a different matter.   


If you advance that argument,  I would  point out that the 14th amendment was intended to apply to freed slaves,  not homosexuals,  who at that time (1868) were being locked up in houses of bedlam for being crazy.   

Locking up Homosexuals as insane continued until the early 1960s.   Therefore it is not even incompatible with the 14th amendment.   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 07:25:53 pm
If you had your way, DL, would you still lock them up? 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: jmyrlefuller on November 21, 2017, 07:26:41 pm
You are still favoring democracy when you know darn well this isn't a democracy but a Constitutional republic.    Some things aren't to be taken away by a majoritarian mob - religion-fueled or otherwise.  One of those things is the law's equal protection.
If we really want to go there, if equal protection can be extended to marriage law, then technically wouldn't they ALL be unconstitutional? After all, there are people such as myself who cannot find a willing partner to marry and are thus denied its privileges.

Your interpretation is capricious and selective, benefiting one vindictive and vocal mob of subversives over others.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: DiogenesLamp on November 21, 2017, 08:57:51 pm
If you had your way, DL, would you still lock them up?


If they broke the law,  I sure would.   


Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 09:15:45 pm
If we really want to go there, if equal protection can be extended to marriage law, then technically wouldn't they ALL be unconstitutional? After all, there are people such as myself who cannot find a willing partner to marry and are thus denied its privileges.

Your interpretation is capricious and selective, benefiting one vindictive and vocal mob of subversives over others.

You're kidding, right?   The principle is simple, and hardly "capricious and selective".   Find a willing partner and contract to be with him or her in perpetuity, and the state will acknowledge that partnership with benefits, protections and status.   

 Yes, I know that requires you to find a willing partner and that's easier said than done for some of us.   (I met Mrs. Jazz when I was 18,  and now I'm 60.)  But you have the same right as anyone else to find and marry the person for you.   Indeed, what's "capricious and selective" was the limitation of civil marriage only to members of the opposite sex;  as noted in a post above back in the day plenty of homosexuals sublimated their desires and married women because that was what the culture expected.  And that led to a lot of unhappy, unfulfilled spouses and divorces.   With the advent of marriage equality, there's a way ahead for all of us to find happiness and gain the community's respect for our partnership. 

Keep trying, jmyrle - as Neil Young sang, just around the next corner may be waiting your true love.       
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 21, 2017, 09:16:43 pm
No hypocrisy, sir.   Alabama's constitution doesn't Trump the federal Constitution and its guarantee of equal protection.  Gays can marry, thank God, and you can't do a damn thing about it except to mouth empty threats of violence.   
    *****rollingeyes*****
I'm not sure what "god" you are thanking, but The One I worship has spoken quite clearly on abomination. You and your 'neighbors' are free to ignore that at your eternal peril.
'Nuff said, and it has been said before.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 21, 2017, 09:19:26 pm

If they broke the law,  I sure would.

But would you "lock them up in houses of bedlam for being crazy"?   That's the practice you appeared to have endorsed as consistent with "200+ years of this nation's existence".   
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 21, 2017, 09:21:48 pm
But would you "lock them up in houses of bedlam for being crazy"?   That's the practice you appeared to have endorsed as consistent with "200+ years of this nation's existence".
Hmmm. "Boy, you want to put your what, where? You are >bleeping< crazy!"

We used to quarantine carriers of deadly diseases who were contagious, too.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 22, 2017, 05:39:14 am
Now the Second Amendment applies to the states and places an absolute restriction on the ability to regulate.  As explained in Heller,  the state can regulate, but cannot deny the right of self-defense which is the purpose of the RKBA.   Hence, a ban on handguns is unconstitutional - but not a regime of registration and insurance,  except to the extent such regime is so onerous as to effectively deny the fundamental right.

And that's why marriage equality is the law of the land.   The Constitutional right at stake is the equal protection of the law.   And a state that chooses to ban the right of gays to marry under the civil law, while preserving that status for opposite sex couples,  has denied homosexuals the law's equal protection.

This is so utterly wrong on multiple accounts.  First, you argue that the Second Amendment places an absolute restriction on States, yet argue that States can regulate any way they see fit.  Nothing absolute about that.

Next, you claim that this clear contradiction is why marriage equality is the law of the land.  Your claim is utterly preposterous.

Then you offer up the strawman of States banning the right of gays to marry.  Not a single State does this.  Not a single one.  This has been pointed out to you again and again and again, yet here you are once more offering a false account of the debate.

As for your equal protection argument, let's follow through on it.  Per your argument, sales tax in California is unconstitutional because there is no sales tax in Oregon.  Motorcycle helmet laws in Oregon are unconstitutional because there is no helmet law in South Carolina.  And South Carolina state income tax laws are unconstitutional because there is no state income tax in Tennessee.

See the inane idiocy of your equal protection schtick?  Because in the end, you do not offer equal protection.  Instead, you offer tyranny based solely upon your viewpoint - a tyranny that denies the people of California from establishing their own laws according to the will of the people of California - but one that only applies when the people of California choose to do something contrary to your wishes.


That violation of the federal Constitution is why Roy Moore was removed from office for refusing to permit gays to marry in Alabama.

Roy Moore upheld Alabama law.  There was no Constitutional violation.  There was no violation of federal law.  And it is quite telling that even now, you are still unable to show otherwise.  In fact, you have shown nothing.


Alabama's constitution may define marriage as between a man and a woman, but that constitution violates the Federal Constitution's guarantee of equal protection. 

It does no such thing.  Perhaps you should actually try reading Amendment XIV for yourself instead of continuing to pretend the Constitution says things it does not say.

Seriously, you have been putting up this argument for months now, yet not once have you cited what the Constitution actually says.


So there's no contradiction in my positions -  Pennsylvania's gun laws are consistent with the Federal Constitution, but Alabama's prohibition on same sex civil marriage is not.   

There are plenty of contradictions in your positions.  The whole equal protection sham being the biggest one of all.  Before Obergfell, we already has equal protection.  But after Obergfell, sexual preference has been added to the equation.  It did not exist before, but now it does.  Except only one sexual preference is added while others are excluded.  Same sex marriage is allowed, but polygamy is not.  So much for equal protection, eh?

So all we are left with is your own personal world view with not a shred of legal or Constitutional basis to back it up.  Nothing but the tyranny you advocate for imposing your world view on others at the point of a gun while covering it with the lie that it is somehow 'constitutional'.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: TomSea on November 22, 2017, 05:44:44 am
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-ala-prevent-roy-moore-harassing-cheerleaders-article-1.3648980

Another story. Who knows? This could be something dreamed up, I'll bet the former police officer saying this is a Democrat.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 22, 2017, 05:48:33 am
It's the law of the land. 

Please cite this law.


Why should you and me have the benefits and protections of marriage but not my neighbors?

Marriage is legally restraining.  And no one is denying you or your neighbors the right to marry.  So stop lying already.


How is fundamental fairness  - the equal protection of the law - a "radical" notion?

We already had equal protection.  Before Obergfell, California marriage law applied equally to everyone.


There is nothing that pleases me more than to see young people reject the idea that religion should serve to oppress people.   No,  that doesn't mean they've rejected Christianity, only that they view Christ's message in terms of acceptance and respect, not knee-jerk condemnation of two people living responsibly because of some stray passage in an ancient book.     

What does religion have to do with this?  Let's focus on the law, shall we?  No need for your religious bigotry, Jazzhead.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Hoodat on November 22, 2017, 05:53:28 am
This is highly amusing.   For someone with whom i've gone round and round about the inappropriateness of using the 14th amendment to apply Federal restrictions to the states regarding religion,   you are seemingly all in favor of taking the "state's rights"  position regarding the second amendment.   

How is it appropriate to require the states to ban religion under the pretension that Federal requirements apply to the states,   but to reject this same claim when discussing the second amendment?   

You can't have it both ways.

When it comes to equality, liberals always try to have it both ways.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Sighlass on November 22, 2017, 06:14:52 am
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-ala-prevent-roy-moore-harassing-cheerleaders-article-1.3648980

Another story. Who knows? This could be something dreamed up, I'll bet the former police officer saying this is a Democrat.

Yeah, she is a liberal nut according to her FB likes. Leftopia, Liberals always win, Progressive news daily, Blue Side Nation, Stop Trump, Progressive Source Media, Proud to be a democrat, American Liberal Council, Being Democrat, Thank you Barack Obama, Progress Post, Gone Left, Call to Activism, Moving Left, Liberals United, Push Black, Telling Donald Trump he is full of crap, Donald Trump is not my president, Progressive America, and more.... I got tired of typing all the liberal crap she subscribes to.

@TomSea

Her FB page is... she goes by "red"....

https://www.facebook.com/faye.gary
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 22, 2017, 06:18:40 am
   Thank You for the updates @Sighlass
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 22, 2017, 06:21:24 am
   Thank You for the updates @Sighlass

See. You support Roy Moore. Nuff said.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 22, 2017, 06:30:53 am
   BS!  Frank  She lives in Alabama and is providing an unfiltered account of what is actually happening on the ground there you need to loosen up that tin foil a bit there's not a Moore Lover behind every tree.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 22, 2017, 06:31:21 am
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/ex-ala-prevent-roy-moore-harassing-cheerleaders-article-1.3648980

Another story. Who knows? This could be something dreamed up, I'll bet the former police officer saying this is a Democrat.
From the link...
Quote
“We were also told to watch him at the ball games and make sure that he didn’t hang around the cheerleaders,” Gray said.

“The rumor was that Roy Moore likes young girls,” she added. “It was not only in our department but at the courthouse, too.”
Gray, a 37-year police veteran who was a detective for the juvenile division at the time, said the department took no action against Moore because it never received complaints on the allegations.

Rumor was.... But no complaints, no interdiction, just rumors. Lat's not forget that Moore has had political enemies in the past, too.

Again with the "Several women" thing But I'm still at three alleging any legal wrongdoing.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Frank Cannon on November 22, 2017, 06:37:19 am
   BS!  Frank  She lives in Alabama and is providing an unfiltered account of what is actually happening on the ground there you need to loosen up that tin foil a bit there's not a Moore Lover behind every tree.

Just like a typical Moore hater. Nuff said.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RoosGirl on November 22, 2017, 06:51:17 am
   BS!  Frank  She lives in Alabama and is providing an unfiltered account of what is actually happening on the ground there you need to loosen up that tin foil a bit there's not a Moore Lover behind every tree.

Umm... @corbe honey, @Sighlass is a dude.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: corbe on November 22, 2017, 07:02:49 am
   Oh $hit, sorry @Sighlass I am guilty of avatar misappropriation.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 22, 2017, 02:16:02 pm
From the link...
Rumor was.... But no complaints, no interdiction, just rumors. Lat's not forget that Moore has had political enemies in the past, too.

Again with the "Several women" thing But I'm still at three alleging any legal wrongdoing.
Her timelines just don’t add up, not to mention what you stated above. It’s the leftist media trying to find some shred of fact to pile on. And they can’t.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 22, 2017, 02:38:34 pm
Her timelines just don’t add up, not to mention what you stated above. It’s the leftist media trying to find some shred of fact to pile on. And they can’t.

Roy Moore graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York in 1969!  You know!!! The place where "We do not Lie, Cheat, or Steal and do not tolerate those who do!" was drummed into his head EVERY DAY for the entire 4 years he was there!

There is NO way in hell that guy did ANY of the crap they are trying to hang on him and most everyone in Alabama knows it!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 22, 2017, 05:34:02 pm
Roy Moore graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point, New York in 1969!  You know!!! The place where "We do not Lie, Cheat, or Steal and do not tolerate those who do!" was drummed into his head EVERY DAY for the entire 4 years he was there!

There is NO way in hell that guy did ANY of the crap they are trying to hang on him and most everyone in Alabama knows it!
Agree, yet there are those on the left including a few unmentionables that post their leftist crap views on this site, that will try to slam West Point ethics.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Jazzhead on November 22, 2017, 05:48:01 pm
Agree, yet there are those on the left including a few unmentionables that post their leftist crap views on this site, that will try to slam West Point ethics.

Hitting on teenagers by a thirty-something assistant DA is not "West Point ethics".

What this boils down to is whether you want to believe the accusations or not.   On the one hand,  the accusations are from multiple sources,  on the record,  and corroborated by the reporting of an ostensibly responsible news organization.  On the other hand,  the accusations pertain to a evangelical social conservative, and we cannot abide another pro-abortion Democrat in the Senate!

Note I said "want to believe".   That's the crux of it.  We all believed Juanita Broderick, because we wanted to -  and the Democrats of course, chose not to believe.   Now some of us, without the slightest trace of irony,  are embracing the Clinton playbook - Moore may be a perv, but he's our perv, and the political stakes are so high that we willingly suspend our morality and common decency to back the man who's the enemy of our enemy. 

Whatever may happen in the election,  evangelicals will lose the most, because they have willingly conceded the moral high ground.     

 
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 22, 2017, 05:58:01 pm
Hitting on teenagers by a thirty-something assistant DA is not "West Point ethics".

What this boils down to is whether you want to believe the accusations or not.   On the one hand,  the accusations are from multiple sources,  on the record,  and corroborated by the reporting of an ostensibly responsible news organization.  On the other hand,  the accusations pertain to a evangelical social conservative, and we cannot abide another pro-abortion Democrat in the Senate!

Note I said "want to believe".   That's the crux of it.  We all believed Juanita Broderick, because we wanted to -  and the Democrats of course, chose not to believe.   Now some of us, without the slightest trace of irony,  are embracing the Clinton playbook - Moore may be a perv, but he's our perv, and the political stakes are so high that we willingly suspend our morality and common decency to back the man who's the enemy of our enemy. 

Whatever may happen in the election,  evangelicals will lose the most, because they have willingly conceded the moral high ground.   
I knew Jazzy would be the first to jump on my comment. However, its not a matter of "want to believe" or not.  The accuser has the burden of proof in our society, not the accused.  So in the absence of any evidence from the accusers, there is nothing to believe from them.  So, in that case the Judge, and soon to be Senator, get the benefit of the doubt.

What will evangelical lose with Moore as a Senator from Alabama? What Moral High Ground will they concede?  I believe your views twist the facts.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 22, 2017, 06:17:39 pm
Hitting on teenagers by a thirty-something assistant DA is not "West Point ethics".

What this boils down to is whether you want to believe the accusations or not.   On the one hand,  the accusations are from multiple sources,  on the record,  and corroborated by the reporting of an ostensibly responsible news organization.  On the other hand,  the accusations pertain to a evangelical social conservative, and we cannot abide another pro-abortion Democrat in the Senate!

Note I said "want to believe".   That's the crux of it.  We all believed Juanita Broderick, because we wanted to -  and the Democrats of course, chose not to believe.   Now some of us, without the slightest trace of irony,  are embracing the Clinton playbook - Moore may be a perv, but he's our perv, and the political stakes are so high that we willingly suspend our morality and common decency to back the man who's the enemy of our enemy. 

Whatever may happen in the election,  evangelicals will lose the most, because they have willingly conceded the moral high ground.   

Court Documents Raise Significant Questions About Leigh Corfman’s Accusations Against Roy Moore

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/


BOOM! Witness Drops Bomb! PROVES Gloria Allred and Accuser Nelson Were Lying – SAYS MEDIA WOULD NOT TALK With HER

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/boom-witness-drops-bomb-proves-gloria-allred-accuser-nelson-lying-says-media-not-talk/


EXCLUSIVE: Ex-Boyfriend of Roy Moore Accuser: I Don’t Believe Her

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/20/exclusive-ex-boyfriend-of-roy-moore-accuser-i-dont-believe-her/
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 22, 2017, 07:19:11 pm
Court Documents Raise Significant Questions About Leigh Corfman’s Accusations Against Roy Moore

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/21/court-documents-raise-significant-questions-leigh-corfmans-accusations-roy-moore/


BOOM! Witness Drops Bomb! PROVES Gloria Allred and Accuser Nelson Were Lying – SAYS MEDIA WOULD NOT TALK With HER

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/11/boom-witness-drops-bomb-proves-gloria-allred-accuser-nelson-lying-says-media-not-talk/


EXCLUSIVE: Ex-Boyfriend of Roy Moore Accuser: I Don’t Believe Her

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/11/20/exclusive-ex-boyfriend-of-roy-moore-accuser-i-dont-believe-her/


Breitbart and Gateway Pundit, bringing the truth as always!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 22, 2017, 07:31:42 pm

Breitbart and Gateway Pundit, bringing the truth as always!

Yes, let's not believe the lies of fellow employees, former boyfriends, and most of all those dirty lying court documents. But let's believe shaky stories from shady criminal WaPo hit reporters and their shaky 'witness' accounts.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Bigun on November 22, 2017, 07:38:45 pm
Yes, let's not believe the lies of fellow employees, former boyfriends, and most of all those dirty lying court documents. But let's believe shaky stories from shady criminal WaPo hit reporters and their shaky 'witness' accounts.

The former do not fit the narrative so they are stuck with the latter!
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 22, 2017, 07:39:24 pm
Yes, let's not believe the lies of fellow employees, former boyfriends, and most of all those dirty lying court documents. But let's believe shaky stories from shady criminal WaPo hit reporters and their shaky 'witness' accounts.
:amen:   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: RetBobbyMI on November 22, 2017, 07:42:30 pm
I would sure hate to see some of these people sitting on a jury for a death penalty case.  They would probably answer their juror questionnaire about how they feel about the death penalty with "hang 'em all, if they are here then they have to be guilty".
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Smokin Joe on November 22, 2017, 09:20:15 pm
Hitting on teenagers by a thirty-something assistant DA is not "West Point ethics".

What this boils down to is whether you want to believe the accusations or not.   On the one hand,  the accusations are from multiple sources,  on the record,  and corroborated by the reporting of an ostensibly responsible news organization.  On the other hand,  the accusations pertain to a evangelical social conservative, and we cannot abide another pro-abortion Democrat in the Senate!

Note I said "want to believe".   That's the crux of it.  We all believed Juanita Broderick, because we wanted to -  and the Democrats of course, chose not to believe.   Now some of us, without the slightest trace of irony,  are embracing the Clinton playbook - Moore may be a perv, but he's our perv, and the political stakes are so high that we willingly suspend our morality and common decency to back the man who's the enemy of our enemy. 

Whatever may happen in the election,  evangelicals will lose the most, because they have willingly conceded the moral high ground.   
I have said it before so I'm going to try this. Jazzy is marooned on an island with two women. One is a psychobitch from Hell, twice divorced, with all sorts of emotional baggage and full to the brim with resentments against any male, just fill in the blank. The other is 17, pleasant, no baggage, and a fresh outlook on life.

Okay, assuming you are heterosexual, single, male, never married, and will be there an indeterminate length of time, which will you find more attractive as a prospect for a mate?

A dozen years after everyone graduates from high school in your class, the women in your age group who are available will more likely resemble the first one I mentioned. There are no 'dating' apps, no  e-Harmony dot com--all of that is off in the science fiction future.
So you go where people are--shopping centers, football games, etc., and you talk with young ladies you find attractive. In your age group, most (if not all) of the "good ones" are taken, married, raising their kids. Their life is set, and you aren't about to go all happy homewrecker on that scene, as any moral individual would not. You don't need the baggage of someone who has been divorced, and there is still some social stigma attacked to that if you aren't Liz Taylor or some Hollywood type in the late '70s.

There are single women in that age group, but most of them are still single for a reason. They might not even like guys. It wasn't because they were 'saving themselves', waiting for you to get out of West Point, the Army, and law school. Plenty of guys got a 'Dear John' letter in a war zone because little Mary Sue couldn't wait the 365 and a wake-up for 'John' to get back to the World, they were not going to sit around starry eyed and wait on any guy.

You sit there sanctimoniously braying about how evil the man supposedly was for looking where he was most likely to find a suitable mate. I don't think you have a clue.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Silver Pines on November 22, 2017, 09:33:51 pm
Yes, let's not believe the lies of fellow employees, former boyfriends, and most of all those dirty lying court documents. But let's believe shaky stories from shady criminal WaPo hit reporters and their shaky 'witness' accounts.

@Free Vulcan

What made you decide that this group of employees, witnesses, or whatever is more reliable than the ones who came out against Moore?

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 22, 2017, 09:38:57 pm

You sit there sanctimoniously braying about how evil the man supposedly was for looking where he was most likely to find a suitable mate. I don't think you have a clue.

That's right. Good post  :beer:
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: INVAR on November 22, 2017, 09:46:40 pm
You sit there sanctimoniously braying about how evil the man supposedly was for looking where he was most likely to find a suitable mate. I don't think you have a clue.

You understand you are talking about a sanctimonious hedonist whose definition of evil comports with the morality of the Adversary, while pushing aforementioned hedonism upon others by force of tyrannical court rulings yes?

I'm laughing my ass off at his silly attempts to feign moral outrage given his posting history to this board.

It's as insipidly hypocritical as if Bob Guccione or Larry Flynt were screaming in outrage and contempt over those peddling internet porn.   The lengths our resident pervert Apologist goes through to justify his morality is just as hubris and stupid.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Sighlass on November 22, 2017, 09:53:12 pm
   Oh $hit, sorry @Sighlass I am guilty of avatar misappropriation.

Np, My screen name is a derivative from a game character my son made. I being a dunce actually thought "Lass" meant a guy, but wife corrected me. Thus we changed my avatar.  Most the time it is me (a guy) posting but occasionally my wife will use my account and post something (on very rare occasions). I am more of a political bug than she is. Usually she just makes fun of my grammar.

(https://s2.postimg.org/wt5401muh/One_Post_per_day.jpg)

We mostly lurk, one post exactly per day on average.
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: roamer_1 on November 22, 2017, 10:05:49 pm
Most the time it is me (a guy) posting but occasionally my wife will use my account and post something (on very rare occasions).

Well that explains a lot.. I always knew you as male, but then there were posts here and there which were decidedly female, and set me to wondering... Might I propose you leave @Sighlass to your wife, and you revert to your previous moniker? You will always be LO to me anyway :)
Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Sighlass on November 22, 2017, 10:07:32 pm
@Free Vulcan
What made you decide that this group of employees, witnesses, or whatever is more reliable than the ones who came out against Moore?

Some that came out against Moore actually were not totally unreliable. Some were horrible... especially on the Roy Moore was banned on the mall front.

One fellow they trotted out was a raving liberal, but not half as bad as his wife. She was mega liberal. His FB page was quickly put to private, but some folks managed to get a few screenshots.. But his wife is still public.

https://www.facebook.com/joanne.obar

Then the black lady (nicknamed Red) that said Roy Moore was being watched at football games for pestering the cheerleaders was also a liberal nut according to her FB page... Red also claimed Roy was banned at the mall... again without offering any proof.

https://www.facebook.com/faye.gary?

Here is her (Red's)  list of liked pages, which included...Leftopia, Liberals always win, Progressive news daily, Blue Side Nation, Stop Trump, Progressive Source Media, Proud to be a democrat, American Liberal Council, Being Democrat, Thank you Barack Obama, Progress Post, Gone Left, Call to Activism, Moving Left, Liberals United, Push Black, Telling Donald Trump he is full of crap, Donald Trump is not my president, Progressive America, and more (I got tired of typing)... but the link is above.

I have found only two articles that looked into the matter from a conservative perspective. One I posted to you earlier... then this one... (link below)

http://www.alreporter.com/2017/11/21/moore-campaign-refutes-allegations-moore-banned-mall/

@CatherineofAragon

@Free Vulcan

Title: Re: Meet Roy Moore Accuser, Beverly Young Nelson: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know
Post by: Free Vulcan on November 23, 2017, 06:42:44 am
@Free Vulcan

What made you decide that this group of employees, witnesses, or whatever is more reliable than the ones who came out against Moore?

You have two separate people blowing up key details of her story. Witnesses who were in a position to know. One is a pastor, just like the pastor who you cite as proof that Moore liked young girls.

The court documents speak for themselves.