The Briefing Room
General Category => Sports/Entertainment/MSM/Social Media => Shooting Sports => Topic started by: mountaineer on May 16, 2018, 08:01:12 pm
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Mr. M and I, both concealed carry permit holders, have offered to be part of our church's security team, currently in its formative stages. His carry piece is a Taurus .38 revolver and mine is a S&W Sigma .380 semi-automatic pistol. My gun is pretty darn heavy (it's about 18 years old) and I'd like to get something more manageable. I generally use a concealed-carry purse, although I might also holster.
Last night we had a pistol training session with other team members, and the instructor suggested I get a 9mm handgun. He recommended the Kahr for me, and when we go to the range in a couple weeks, the instructor said he'd let me try it - and a few other guns - to try out.
Before I make a decision, I'd like some input from all of you who carry a 9mm. Which would you recommend for ease of handling, weight and reliability? Thanks!
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Colt Buntline Special revolver. As seen in movie "City Heat", 1984.
http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/City_Heat (http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/City_Heat)
Just kidding. Bookmarking thread for reading better replies.
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Mr. M and I, both concealed carry permit holders, have offered to be part of our church's security team, currently in its formative stages. His carry piece is a Taurus .38 revolver and mine is a S&W Sigma .380 semi-automatic pistol. My gun is pretty darn heavy (it's about 18 years old) and I'd like to get something more manageable. I generally use a concealed-carry purse, although I might also holster.
Last night we had a pistol training session with other team members, and the instructor suggested I get a 9mm handgun. He recommended the Kahr for me, and when we go to the range in a couple weeks, the instructor said he'd let me try it - and a few other guns - to try out.
Before I make a decision, I'd like some input from all of you who carry a 9mm. Which would you recommend for ease of handling, weight and reliability? Thanks!
M&P Shield all day and twice on Sunday’s (see what i did there? 8888forgot)
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Shield's not a bad choice. They have also just released a version called the EZ. It has lighter springs for folks who have a hard time with a slide. It's currently a 380 which is good for ammo since you already have one but the 9 is coming soon.
Might want to consider the M&P compact 9. I would feel a little better with more rounds myself and the compact holds 12 I think and yet not as big as your Sigma.
I would also be remiss as a CZ fanboy if I didn't mention the P10C. 15 rounds of striker-fired CZ goodness and just a smidge smaller than a G19.
Regardless, shoot as many as you can and see what feels good to you. Figure out if and where you'll carry a second magazine and please pat yourself on the back for taking on this responsibility for your friends and neighbors. 888high58888
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Better to base your decision on what you like best of the pistols you get to try out. My first concealed carry gun was a S&W featherweight .38 snubnose revolver. Later when I wanted to get a 9mm I had planned on buying a S&W, but was able to rent one at the range and discovered that I hated it. It felt comfortable in my hand, until I fired it, and then it jumped around all over the place and did not feel stable at all. The Glock was a dream though, including firing single-handed.
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M&P Shield all day and twice on Sunday’s (see what i did there? 8888forgot)
Misspelled Sundays?
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I like a little Ruger LCP 380 but some days my hands are not the best (I don't carry with one in chamber) so I resort to a revolver 38 Special on those days.
Agree with Roo, find something YOU are comfortable with and stick with it. You know your limitations and strengths.
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If you're wanting a concealable 9mm, my suggestion would be the SIG P938. My son owns one and I was amazed how accurate and controllable it is.
Myself, I carry 380 and 32 pistols. I'm skinny and I AIWB carry. I have a CZ70, CZ83, and a Kel tek p32. I do have a 9mm CZ75, but I haven't carried it yet.
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Misspelled Sundays?
Lol! I see what YOU did there!
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Thanks, all.
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@mountaineer
https://www.sigsauer.com/products/firearms/pistols/p365/ (https://www.sigsauer.com/products/firearms/pistols/p365/)
Polymer striker fired 9mm that's the same size as a Glock 43 or an M&P shield but with 10+1 or 12+1 capacity. Comes standard with night sights.
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For personal defense the Shield or the new XDs mod2 are great choices and I have both, but for security at a church where there are likely innocent bystanders I would want the biggest Duty pistol you can comfortably conceal cary. M&P M2.0 would be my choice.
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Glock 22 semi...
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Church Security Seminar: You Need Faith and a Firearm
22 May 2018
A church security seminar sponsored by the California Rifle and Pistol Association stressed faith and firearms together as integral to keeping congregants safe on Sundays.
The seminar was held in Huntington Beach.
The Los Angeles Times reports the seminar was conducted by Jimmy Meeks, a “pastor and retired Texas police officer.†He urged those security team members to keep their heads up during prayer, to be surveilling the congregation, watching for signs of trouble.
Meeks prayed, “Wherever we are, Father, should the wolf cross our path, give us the wisdom to know what to do with that moment, and give us the power and the courage to act to stop the wolf and protect our sons and daughters.â€
The California Rifle and Pistol Association hoped the seminar communicated a clear message — “Faith alone will not protect you in a house of God.†There needs to be preparedness, there must be a plan. ...
And Meeks stressed that part of the plan should include firearms. He said, “If you do not have an armed presence in your church, you are simply not ready.†... Full story at Breitbart (http://www.breitbart.com/california/2018/05/22/church-security-seminar-you-need-faith-and-a-firearm/)
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Years ago my sister invited me to a church seminar on firearm safety. She wanted me to bring a good assortment of handguns. Now this was years before concealed carry was implemented in TX. I remember a policeman saying that if you felt a need for a firearm for your safety. To go from your car to your front door, or to the nite drop at the bank,for examples. You should have the weapon in your hand. Not hidden down in your purse, or pocket.
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Years ago my sister invited me to a church seminar on firearm safety. She wanted me to bring a good assortment of handguns. Now this was years before concealed carry was implemented in TX. I remember a policeman saying that if you felt a need for a firearm for your safety. To go from your car to your front door, or to the nite drop at the bank,for examples. You should have the weapon in your hand. Not hidden down in your purse, or pocket.
Wouldn't that be considered "brandishing?"
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Is carrying a pistol in your hand any different that carrying a rifle or shotgun?
If you are not waving or pointing your weapon in a threatening manner is it brandishing?
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Is carrying a pistol in your hand any different that carrying a rifle or shotgun?
If you are not waving or pointing your weapon in a threatening manner is it brandishing?
For Texas:
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun
on or about the license holder’s person under the authority of Subchapter H,
Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally displays the handgun in plain
view of another person in a public place. It is an exception to the application of
this subsection that the handgun was partially or wholly visible but was carried in
a shoulder or belt holster by the license holder.
https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms/Forms/LTC-16.pdf (https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms/Forms/LTC-16.pdf)
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Now this seminar occurred before the Texas Conceal Carry Laws were written.
It appears that it does not apply if you do not have a Concealed Carry Permit.
You can legally go to and from your vehicle with a handgun without a permit.
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In Florida you cannot have the firearm 'readily accessible' in your car unless you have a concealed carry permit. Which means youhave to have it in a case or the glovebox. On your person is considered readily accessible.
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Texas has no laws regarding the carrying of long guns (rifles or shotguns) in motor vehicles.
Texas generally prohibits intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carrying a handgun in plain view in a motor vehicle or watercraft, except by handgun license holders carrying the handgun in a shoulder or belt holster.
My truck gun was a shotgun for many years.
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It is such a personal thing. Experienced shooters will always gravitate to the piece that gives them the most confidence. For shooting a small frame, I opt for the Ruger LC9s over the Shield, but that is just me. Teardown and cleaning is another matter.
I will tell you, the more I shoot the Sig Sauer line, the more impressed I am. My wife shoots the P238 and it is an incredible little weapon. I have rented the P938 and P365. Almost perfection.
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It is such a personal thing. Experienced shooters will always gravitate to the piece that gives them the most confidence. For shooting a small frame, I opt for the Ruger LC9s over the Shield, but that is just me. Teardown and cleaning is another matter.
I will tell you, the more I shoot the Sig Sauer line, the more impressed I am. My wife shoots the P238 and it is an incredible little weapon. I have rented the P938 and P365. Almost perfection.
I almost replaced my faithful XDs with a Sig 365 but decided against it in the end.
I REALLY like the 365 though.
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My son has a P938. I really like everything about that weapon.
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My son has a P938. I really like everything about that weapon.
So does my son and I like it as well.
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I almost replaced my faithful XDs with a Sig 365 but decided against it in the end.
I REALLY like the 365 though.
@Bigun I'm pushing really hard and dropping hints every day to my wife I'd like a 365 for our anniversary next month.
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The price of the P938 is scaring me a little. I do like the look of the LC9. I should be doing some shooting within the next week or so, and will have a better idea what to get. Thanks for all the input!
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The price of the P938 is scaring me a little. I do like the look of the LC9. I should be doing some shooting within the next week or so, and will have a better idea what to get. Thanks for all the input!
@mountaineer
Shop around.
Buy online and have it shipped to a local FFL.
https://www.deguns.net/product-p/938-9-db-lsr-ambi.htm (https://www.deguns.net/product-p/938-9-db-lsr-ambi.htm)
Sig Sauer P938 Desert 9mm Nitron with Laser - 938-9-DB-LSR-AMBI
(https://cdn3.volusion.com/vrfwc.byruj/v/vspfiles/photos/938-9-DB-LSR-AMBI-2T.jpg)
Our Price: $699.00
Sale Price: $549.99
Savings: $149.01
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The price of the P938 is scaring me a little. I do like the look of the LC9. I should be doing some shooting within the next week or so, and will have a better idea what to get. Thanks for all the input!
It is possible you could run into an LC9 out there at a "steal" price. Don't do it. Be sure to get the LC9s which has the vastly improved trigger/striker-fired arrangement. I'm not up to speed on the EC9s but I believe it is a basic stripped down version of the LC9s at a lower price.
Also, if you consider a LC9s, pull the slide back and look at the end stop of the guide rod. It originally was a "T". The newer versions have a conical end which ensures proper seating after each round.
My personal opinion... I like the Ruger LC9s. A lot.
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It is possible you could run into an LC9 out there at a "steal" price. Don't do it. Be sure to get the LC9s which has the vastly improved trigger/striker-fired arrangement. I'm not up to speed on the EC9s but I believe it is a basic stripped down LC9s and a lower price.
I have the LC9s. I would not get the LC9. The EC9s is an inch bigger in length and height, same width.
https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/12/21/affordable-everyday-carry-ruger-announces-ec9s-pistol/ (https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/12/21/affordable-everyday-carry-ruger-announces-ec9s-pistol/)
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Sig Sauer P938 Desert 9mm Nitron with Laser - 938-9-DB-LSR-AMBI
Wow, that's pretty.
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@mountaineer
Please read this article:
https://www.skilledsurvival.com/sw-airweight-review/ (https://www.skilledsurvival.com/sw-airweight-review/)
The advantage of the 642 is that it is hammerless (no hammer to catch on clothing when you draw, or hang up in it if you are shooting at very close range through a coat pocket or purse). I have one for a 'parka pocket' gun in winter. They are light, but for shooting purposes, they are double action only and have a harder trigger pull than the 637 model. The 637 model will shoot single action or double action (you have a hammer to cock the Model 637), but that same hammer can snag in clothing on a draw and renders the firearm performance problematical for shooting while still in a pocket or purse at very close range (arms length) defense, as it can hang up and keep the firearm from discharging.
Likely, you would want to carry with a holster, so it becomes a question of whether you are more comfortable with the hammer and possibility of shooting single action or more so with the double action trigger pull. I find the 'slick' profile of the hammerless to be a plus.
To reiterate, these pistols are light weight, and are chambered for .38 special and rated for the more powerful +P rounds.
Unless you see the need for larger capacity or just prefer the semi-auto (and I am a semiauto fan), this is a good balance of power, reliability and light weight.
Just my $0.02. YMMV.
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Going to the range tomorrow and hope to try out a few different 9mms. ^-^
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Going to the range tomorrow and hope to try out a few different 9mms. ^-^
Woo Hoo!
We will await your written report.
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Fired a Springfield Arms XD 9mm today. I think I'd like to try something more compact.
For what it's worth, though, I was pretty darn accurate with it. ^-^
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Fired a Springfield Arms XD 9mm today. I think I'd like to try something more compact.
For what it's worth, though, I was pretty darn accurate with it. ^-^
Find someone who has and XDs and try that. I think you will like it a lot and not just because I carry one.
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Fired a Springfield Arms XD 9mm today. I think I'd like to try something more compact.
For what it's worth, though, I was pretty darn accurate with it. ^-^
Are you looking for a single stack magazine firearm (usually 6-7 rounds in the mag), or sticking with the capacity (15-15) offered by a double stack magazine semi-auto?
If the latter, check out the S&W M&P9, Gun tests rated it highly. (My favorite is a Sig P228, and I have not shot the Smith).
The KelTec PF9 is a single stack with a very thin profile and I have fired those, and I liked them, but it lacks the capacity of the Sig. It is also rated fairly high by Gun Tests.
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Probably ought to consider a greater capacity magazine, come to think of it. I liked having 16 bullets at my disposal, and for church security work, that makes sense.
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Probably ought to consider a greater capacity magazine, come to think of it. I liked having 16 bullets at my disposal, and for church security work, that makes sense.
The absolute best compromise on size/mag capacity I've seen is in the Sig P365. I seriously doubt you will find anything better.
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The absolute best compromise on size/mag capacity I've seen is in the Sig P365. I seriously doubt you will find anything better.
:amen:
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Probably ought to consider a greater capacity magazine, come to think of it. I liked having 16 bullets at my disposal, and for church security work, that makes sense.
@mountaineer
If its for church security, have you considered "open carry"?
(http://www.primaryarms.com/SSP Applications/NetSuite Inc. - SCA Mont Blanc/Development/img/90A3BAD_01.jpg) (https://iwi.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/PR_Uzi_July2015.png)
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Nothing quite like that. Next will check out Glock and M&P.
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The absolute best compromise on size/mag capacity I've seen is in the Sig P365. I seriously doubt you will find anything better.
@Bigun I did end up getting the P365 for Father's Day.
It's everything I was hoping for and more. And everything that's it's been advertised as being since it's debut in January.
Shoots straight right out of the box and tucks away in my pocket.
It's the size of a G43 but with up to 13 rounds of 9mm
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Probably ought to consider a greater capacity magazine, come to think of it. I liked having 16 bullets at my disposal, and for church security work, that makes sense.
Lady, let's talk. No, actually, let's shop!
Let's shop for magazine holsters:
https://thewellarmedwoman.com/product/universaladjustable-magazine-holster-by-the-well-armed-woman/
That match your concealed carry holster:
https://thewellarmedwoman.com/product/waistband-holster-well-armed-woman-custom-models-colors/
You carry your extra ammo on you, not in some weighted down pistol. ^-^
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Lady, let's talk. No, actually, let's shop!
Let's shop for magazine holsters:
https://thewellarmedwoman.com/product/universaladjustable-magazine-holster-by-the-well-armed-woman/
That match your concealed carry holster:
https://thewellarmedwoman.com/product/waistband-holster-well-armed-woman-custom-models-colors/
You carry your extra ammo on you, not in some weighted down pistol. ^-^
"You donnnn't neeeeed morrrre than six bullllets to killll a deeeeer!" /Coumo Voice.
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"You donnnn't neeeeed morrrre than six bullllets to killll a deeeeer!" /Coumo Voice.
I'm blind as a bat, need all the ammo I can carry. :laugh:
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In training to be on church security team; need recommendations for new CCL handgun
First recommendation is not to go to church in South Philly. You wouldn't need a gun then.
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! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FbUMqoyjDw#)
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnP4IKHdgWw#)
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@Bigun I did end up getting the P365 for Father's Day.
It's everything I was hoping for and more. And everything that's it's been advertised as being since it's debut in January.
Shoots straight right out of the box and tucks away in my pocket.
It's the size of a G43 but with up to 13 rounds of 9mm
That's great @txradioguy!
I've looked at it very hard and still may eventually wind up with one myself!
Enjoy!
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You carry your extra ammo on you, not in some weighted down pistol. ^-^
Oh, I know. Security team members will be expected to carry two extra magazines. That's how we're training - empty the magazine, whip it out and drop it on the ground, insert the new one, keep firing.
The funny thing is that this isn't anything like South Philly. It's a quiet little farm town in western Pennsylvania, but no one can be complacent anymore. A church down the road from our home has an armed security guard stationed outside the sanctuary (doors are closed) every Sunday. He has a trained German Shepherd with him. The dog would rip your arm off, if ordered, but he also bows his head when the pastor says, "Let us pray." :laugh:
I mentioned to my sister that we're training for the security team and she admitted that she gets very nervous at her church in suburban Pittsburgh, thinking that someone could storm in and start shooting.
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I find that when considering a carry gun, it is always good to remember the 5 rules of a gun fight:
1) gun beats no gun
That means that the gun you left behind because it was too big, too hard to shoot, too costly to feed = no gun
2) a hit beats a miss
The .22 that hits beats the .44 magnum hand cannon that cant hit the broad side of a barn
3) fast beats slow
Fast as in how fast you can get the gun into the fight. Often, he who shoots first, shoots last
4) big holes beat little holes
Bigger holes bleed out faster so carry that largest caliber that can still meet rules 1 through 3
5) two holes beat one hole
If it is worth shooting once, it is worth shooting twice. Keep this in mind when you are comparing the number of rounds available to you.
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hy
I find that when considering a carry gun, it is always good to remember the 5 rules of a gun fight:
1) gun beats no gun
That means that the gun you left behind because it was too big, too hard to shoot, too costly to feed = no gun
2) a hit beats a miss
The .22 that hits beats the .44 magnum hand cannon that cant hit the broad side of a barn
3) fast beats slow
Fast as in how fast you can get the gun into the fight. Often, he who shoots first, shoots last
4) big holes beat little holes
Bigger holes bleed out faster so carry that largest caliber that can still meet rules 1 through 3
5) two holes beat one hole
If it is worth shooting once, it is worth shooting twice. Keep this in mind when you are comparing the number of rounds available to you.
:thumbsup:
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I find that when considering a carry gun, it is always good to remember the 5 rules of a gun fight:
1) gun beats no gun
That means that the gun you left behind because it was too big, too hard to shoot, too costly to feed = no gun
2) a hit beats a miss
The .22 that hits beats the .44 magnum hand cannon that cant hit the broad side of a barn
3) fast beats slow
Fast as in how fast you can get the gun into the fight. Often, he who shoots first, shoots last
4) big holes beat little holes
Bigger holes bleed out faster so carry that largest caliber that can still meet rules 1 through 3
5) two holes beat one hole
If it is worth shooting once, it is worth shooting twice. Keep this in mind when you are comparing the number of rounds available to you.
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.....
Practice your draw. Start slow, emphasizing technique. Get the muscle memory right. Speed will follow.