The Briefing Room
General Category => Politics/Government => Topic started by: truth_seeker on June 17, 2017, 06:18:31 pm
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Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
By Joshua Keating Jan. 4, 2017
The 1948 Italian election was supposed to be a nail-biter, and one with potentially major consequences in the early days of the Cold War. Back then, Italy had one of the strongest communist parties in Western Europe, which relied on Soviet financial assistance, and the Americans’ recently established Central Intelligence Agency worried that the reds were about to establish a beachhead in what a memo to the White House described as “the most ancient seat of Western culture.”
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A little more than two weeks until Inauguration Day, and the incoming administration continues to dismiss, even just this morning, allegations that Russia deliberately interfered in the 2016 U.S. election by hacking and leaking information from Hillary Clinton’s campaign. But interference by either Moscow or Washington in other countries’ elections isn’t unusual at all. A recent paper by Dov Levin, a postdoctoral fellow at Carnegie Mellon University’s Institute for Politics and Strategy, shows just how common it’s been.
Using declassified documents, statements by officials, and journalistic accounts, Levin has found evidence of interference by either the United States or the Soviet Union/Russia in 117 elections around the world between 1946 and 2000, or 11.3 percent of the 937 competitive national-level elections held during this period. Eighty-one of those interventions were by the U.S. while 36 were by the USSR/Russia. They happened in every region of the world, though most commonly in Europe and Latin America. The two powers tended to focus on different countries, though Italy was a favorite of both, receiving eight interventions by the U.S. and four by the Soviets.
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/01/04/u_s_and_russian_election_meddling_is_surprisingly_common.html
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The American voting public are not completely informed of this. But if they were, they would have better judgment, than some on this site to:
Swallow whole the claim that Trump had a hand in 2016 Russian interference, in the election. (The Soviets/Russians have been doing it, since 1946.)
Assuming that Russia had a preference for our election outcome, it would be logical they wanted Clinton, since they knew she was corrupt, easily purchased, etc.
Trump was an uncertainty. Countries and markets do not like uncertainty.
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The American voting public are not completely informed of this. But if they were, they would have better judgment, than some on this site to:
Swallow whole the claim that Trump had a hand in 2016 Russian interference, in the election. (The Soviets/Russians have been doing it, since 1946.)
Assuming that Russia had a preference for our election outcome, it would be logical they wanted Clinton, since they knew she was corrupt, easily purchased, etc.
Trump was an uncertainty. Countries and markets do not like uncertainty.
Actually, what Putin wants from the US is paralysis, because then he can continue to do what he wants in places like Ukraine unimpeded, and even last fall it was a damned good bet that having Trump as president would paralyze the US, as it has nearly done.
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Assuming that Russia had a preference for our election outcome, it would be logical they wanted Clinton, since they knew she was corrupt, easily purchased, etc.
Trump was an uncertainty. Countries and markets do not like uncertainty.
What I've said since the "scandal" started. Clinton is readily blackmailable, Trump less so (no one in the public eye is unblackmailable).
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The Russians really don't care one way or another WHO has the power. They care that the power is not able to be USED effectively. :shrug:
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What I've said since the "scandal" started. Clinton is readily blackmailable, Trump less so (no one in the public eye is unblackmailable).
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The Russians really don't care one way or another WHO has the power. They care that the power is not able to be USED effectively. :shrug:
Exactly. What they want is paralysis. And right now, that is what they have.
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Actually, what Putin wants from the US is paralysis, because then he can continue to do what he wants in places like Ukraine unimpeded, and even last fall it was a damned good bet that having Trump as president would paralyze the US, as it has nearly done.
"As it THE DEMOCRATS, has/ve nearly done"
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@EC @Oceander
You guys have nailed it, as usual.
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"As it THE DEMOCRATS, has/ve nearly done"
Together with a sleazeball president who keeps giving them the ammunition they need to do so. It takes two to tango and Trump keeps filling up his dance card.
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Election Meddling Is Surprisingly Common
Why yes it is. Every News Program out of New York is an example of election meddling. By deliberately withholding information detrimental to Democrats and by pushing fake information damaging to Republicans, the "news" media manipulates elections.
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So where is any case whatsoever that Trump contacted the Russians, said please interfere on my behalf, and I will help you to have your way?
The facts are what matter, but to date we hear only the accusation, unsupported.
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So where is any case whatsoever that Trump contacted the Russians, said please interfere on my behalf, and I will help you to have your way?
The facts are what matter, but to date we hear only the accusation, unsupported.
That doesn't have to have happened in order for the Russians to have meddled. In fact, it would be to their benefit if it didn't happen. They got lucky with Trump. He is naturally creating exactly the sort of paralysis they want without him having to have agreed to anything with them.
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Together with a sleazeball president who keeps giving them the ammunition they need to do so.
Exactly. George HW Bush just kept giving them reasons to assert the economy was in shambles a year up to the election. George HW Bush just kept giving them reasons to cover up all of the very ugly ugly history of that Rat Bastard William BJ Clinton.
If George HW Bush hadn't been such a sleazeball, the media would not have been able to push the fake story that the economy was a wreck, nor would they have been able to cover up all that ugly background of that slimeball Clinton.
And George W shouldn't have ordered those men on that Aircraft carrier to put up that "Mission Accomplished" banner. He just shouldn't have done it. If he hadn't done that, the media wouldn't have been able to make up a mocking fake story to damage him.
Yes, it is all the fault of Republican Presidents that they give the media people these openings. They should just stop making such mistakes so that the media won't attack them.
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And George W shouldn't have ordered those men on that Aircraft carrier to put up that "Mission Accomplished" banner. He just shouldn't have done it. If he hadn't done that, the media wouldn't have been able to make up a mocking fake story to damage him.
You bought the media spin there.
The banner was nothing to do with Bush. It was up before Bush decided to give his presser there, to celebrate completing a deployment.
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So where is any case whatsoever that Trump contacted the Russians, said please interfere on my behalf, and I will help you to have your way?
The facts are what matter, but to date we hear only the accusation, unsupported.
This is only a story because the f***ing bastards in New York who run the news programs have *caused* it to become a story. This is the power they wield, and this is the power than needs to be seized from them and turned against them.
We should be talking about election meddling by the New York Liberal Democrat controlled media system. We should be talking about smashing this election meddling machine ran by Democrats.
The Root of this nation's problems is the election meddling in which the media has been engaged since at least the Nixon/Kennedy election.
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You bought the media spin there.
The banner was nothing to do with Bush. It was up before Bush decided to give his presser there, to celebrate completing a deployment.
No! You don't say? You mean the media just made up that whole thing and it had nothing at all to do with the President's actions at the time?
Why i'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!
It's almost as if the media can create completely fake "news" stories out of nothing. (Russian meddling in the election.)
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This is only a story because the f***ing bastards in New York who run the news programs have *caused* it to become a story. This is the power they wield, and this is the power than needs to be seized from them and turned against them.
Agreed. And I think I heard previously anti-Trump Mark Levin, scolding other Republicans for not speaking up.
The drama unfolding appears to be the GOP stands by quietly, leaving it entirely for Trump to defend himself.
You know, the GOP "establishment" which is part of the Swamp Trump stated he wanted to drain?
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Exactly. George HW Bush just kept giving them reasons to assert the economy was in shambles a year up to the election. George HW Bush just kept giving them reasons to cover up all of the very ugly ugly history of that Rat Bastard William BJ Clinton.
If George HW Bush hadn't been such a sleazeball, the media would not have been able to push the fake story that the economy was a wreck, nor would they have been able to cover up all that ugly background of that slimeball Clinton.
And George W shouldn't have ordered those men on that Aircraft carrier to put up that "Mission Accomplished" banner. He just shouldn't have done it. If he hadn't done that, the media wouldn't have been able to make up a mocking fake story to damage him.
Yes, it is all the fault of Republican Presidents that they give the media people these openings. They should just stop making such mistakes so that the media won't attack them.
Well, we certainly agree that Trump is a sleazeball.
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Agreed. And I think I heard previously anti-Trump Mark Levin, scolding other Republicans for not speaking up.
The drama unfolding appears to be the GOP stands by quietly, leaving it entirely for Trump to defend himself.
You know, the GOP "establishment" which is part of the Swamp Trump stated he wanted to drain?
Yes, it's Washington D.C. and New York Media vs. Trump.
I am beginning to think not even Trump realized till now what sort of giant he was poking at.
The New York Media and the "Establishment" are members of the same social group.
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Exactly. What they want is paralysis. And right now, that is what they have.
Nonsense.
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Nonsense.
Really?
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Yes, it's Washington D.C. and New York Media vs. Trump.
I am beginning to think not even Trump realized till now what sort of giant he was poking at.
The New York Media and the "Establishment" are members of the same social group.
BS. For over a decade, Trump, as host of The Apprentice, was PART of that same New York media. He relied on that same New York media feeding false news during the primaries to undercut any opposition to him. Anyone who didn't go along with it, well, look what's happened to Megyn Kelly. Career destroyed.
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BS. For over a decade, Trump, as host of The Apprentice, was PART of that same New York media. He relied on that same New York media feeding false news during the primaries to undercut any opposition to him. Anyone who didn't go along with it, well, look what's happened to Megyn Kelly. Career destroyed.
:thumbsup:
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Ask Bernie Sanders supporters about election meddling. Ron Paul supporters would have a thing or two to add as well.
And if you count media bias you could toss in Google, Facebook, Twitter, ABC, NBC, CBS, every late night talk show host, the majority of newspapers in this country, and on and on.
Hardly a level playing field.
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If I could interrupt the Trump bashing for a moment, I'd like to remind people that two Democrat administrations have unabashedly meddled in international elections. Both Presidents Clinton and Obama wanted PM Netanyahu to lose so each could usher in his vision of peace in the Middle East.
Clinton was successful in 1999 (thanks in large part to James Carville) and Obama failed by the skin of his teeth in 2015. Just something to remember---for the hypocrisy factor.
Now, back to Trump bashing.
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From personal experience.
Working at the polling place in our town. When we opened the machine first thing in the morning there were already votes in the machine. WE REMOVED those votes and set the count to ZERO.
Next personal experience. The counting of the votes MUST be open and not behind closed doors. As a credentialed representative of the state's newspaper I was denied admission to the room where the votes were being counted. The workers locked the doors and counted the votes in secret.
Anyone believe these are isolated instances are living in denial.
In another case the machine switched the votes from one candidate to another. The machine had to be shut down until someone from the country could adjust the machine.
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From personal experience.
Working at the polling place in our town. When we opened the machine first thing in the morning there were already votes in the machine. WE REMOVED those votes and set the count to ZERO.
Next personal experience. The counting of the votes MUST be open and not behind closed doors. As a credentialed representative of the state's newspaper I was denied admission to the room where the votes were being counted. The workers locked the doors and counted the votes in secret.
Anyone believe these are isolated instances are living in denial.
In another case the machine switched the votes from one candidate to another. The machine had to be shut down until someone from the country could adjust the machine.
I was informed right here that Russian propagandizing during our primaries was A-OK. Of course the same lying trash will now declare that it never happened.
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I was informed right here that Russian propagandizing during our primaries was A-OK. Of course the same lying trash will now declare that it never happened.
Who cares, Vlad Putin the savior of Christianity is our friend..
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I was informed right here that Russian propagandizing during our primaries was A-OK. Of course the same lying trash will now declare that it never happened.
I was informed yesterday that the claim was "laughable." *****rollingeyes*****
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There were pictures on the front page of the NY Post years ago. People were being bussed from nursing homes to election venues all across the city of Manhattan. Voting every time without a word of complaint from the workers. Each time someone went into the voting booth they had a voter 'helper;. This goes on in far more places than most realize.
To say nothing of the 110% turnout in Philadelphia. If we concede corruption in certain areas then we concede our vote to the opponent everywhere.
Get involved, go to town meetings, get involved in the election process in your community.
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Who cares, Vlad Putin the savior of Christianity is our friend..
I see the newest alt right hero of the Trumpers (Jack Posobiec) who was involved in acting like a leftists at the Shakespeare play was on twitter yesterday declaring Russian supremacy. He was bragging that Russia would never allow such a play to insult a great leader like that.
Suck it up buttercups Lèse-majesté is still my middle name
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If I could interrupt the Trump bashing for a moment, I'd like to remind people that two Democrat administrations have unabashedly meddled in international elections. Both Presidents Clinton and Obama wanted PM Netanyahu to lose so each could usher in his vision of peace in the Middle East.
Clinton was successful in 1999 (thanks in large part to James Carville) and Obama failed by the skin of his teeth in 2015. Just something to remember---for the hypocrisy factor.
And let's not forget they used taxpayer dollars to do so.
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So now the <> in this forum are going to try and push Russia's election meddling down our throats.
Nope.
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So now the <> in this forum are going to try and push Russia's election meddling down our throats.
But you have to remember that Vlad Putin is the savior of Christianity.. So who cares.
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BS. For over a decade, Trump, as host of The Apprentice, was PART of that same New York media. He relied on that same New York media feeding false news during the primaries to undercut any opposition to him. Anyone who didn't go along with it, well, look what's happened to Megyn Kelly. Career destroyed.
Yep!
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Yep!
Trump has been in bed with the media for a lot more than a decade.
Trump was a willing participant in tabloid TV like Current Affairs in the 80s, mostly for sleazy crap like bragging about his wife finding out she was getting a divorce from the papers
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Trump has been in bed with the media for a lot more than a decade.
Trump was a willing participant in tabloid TV like Current Affairs in the 80s, mostly for sleazy crap like bragging about his wife finding out she was getting a divorce from the papers
A notable relationship: National Enquirer (https://winteryknight.com/2016/03/28/donald-trump-has-strong-links-to-national-enquirer-and-david-pecker/) (especially if you recall the timing of certain articles).
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A notable relationship: (especially if you recall the timing of certain articles).
I certainly remember... GrandPapa is a commie assassination conspiring Cuban and Ted has lots of mysterious lovers. Zero evidence, no problem.
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I certainly remember... GrandPapa is a commie assassination conspiring Cuban and Ted has lots of mysterious lovers. Zero evidence, no problem.
Retractions come out after the polls close...and not before.
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BS. For over a decade, Trump, as host of The Apprentice, was PART of that same New York media.
Yes, he was their "buddy" until he decided to seek office as a Republican. Then he became their enemy.
And your point is?
He relied on that same New York media feeding false news during the primaries to undercut any opposition to him. Anyone who didn't go along with it, well, look what's happened to Megyn Kelly. Career destroyed.
Yes he did. The media deliberately helped him win the primary because they believed he would be easy to beat. They helped him falsely accuse Ted Cruz when it came down to a race between those two, and they made sure his false accusations got plenty of air play.
Again, what is your point? He's our quarterback now, so he is presumably the only player on the field that has a chance to advance our agenda. At this point, I think trying to advance our agenda is the thing upon which we should focus.
That, and the fact we need to destroy the propaganda system ran out of New York that meddles in our elections.
And I have just this morning thought of what might be a good idea to move us in that direction.
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BS. For over a decade, Trump, as host of The Apprentice, was PART of that same New York media. He relied on that same New York media feeding false news during the primaries to undercut any opposition to him. Anyone who didn't go along with it, well, look what's happened to Megyn Kelly. Career destroyed.
@jmyrlefuller
Trump didn't destroy Megyn's career. If anything he unintentiaonally helped her career. She is the one who abandoned a strong program at Fox and went to MSNBC only to fall flat on her face.
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So now the <> in this forum are going to try and push Russia's election meddling down our throats.
Nope.
It helps if you pay attention, but that's up to you.
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Many people believe we have free and fair elections. They also believe the U.S. is a free market system. There are reasons that they believe these things, but we'll set that aside for the moment.
The important point is that educating the ignorant is a good thing and the great unwashed are showing signs they're starting to see the big picture more clearly.
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Now we have the resurrection of Teddy, the swimmer, Kennedy conspiring with the Soviet's against Reagan.
An acknowledgement that DT is guilty of the same corruption but it's okay because the Swimmer tried it in the past.
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Now we have the resurrection of Teddy, the swimmer, Kennedy conspiring with the Soviet's against Reagan.
An acknowledgement that DT is guilty of the same corruption but it's okay because the Swimmer tried it in the past.
Sure looks that way.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the strategy of..."The democrats were horrible so we're going to do what they did".
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The dems got away with everything and anything so we should be given a pass for doing the same deeds.
That story wouldn't get a pass in our home.
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The dems got away with everything and anything so we should be given a pass for doing the same deeds.
That story wouldn't get a pass in our home.
Nor mine. Not only do two wrongs not make a right, but the second pass just establishes precedent and the modus operandi for the future.
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Sure looks that way.
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the strategy of..."The democrats were horrible so we're going to do what they did".
Your premise is crap.
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Again, what is your point? He's our quarterback now, so he is presumably the only player on the field that has a chance to advance our agenda. At this point, I think trying to advance our agenda is the thing upon which we should focus.
That, and the fact we need to destroy the propaganda system ran out of New York that meddles in our elections.
Here, there appears to be no interest in reducing taxes. Or reducing regulations. Or reducing illegal immigration. Or repealing/replacing Obamacare.
Only interest in 24/7 anti-Trump.
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Here, there appears to be no interest in reducing taxes. Or reducing regulations. Or reducing illegal immigration. Or repealing/replacing Obamacare.
Only interest in 24/7 anti-Trump.
As soon as it happens, bravo. We're still burning corn in our gas tanks, more than ever. Congress failed to get rid of the Methane Rule, thankfully, that has been stymied. DAPL is complete and operational but another Obama Judge has ruled the EIS has to be done over again again. I'm all for reducing illegal immigration. Make it so. Wall, and all that. I'm all for repealing Obamacare. I think your premise is crap.
Taxes? Hell, I could live five years comfortably off what I paid during the past seven years in taxes. I'm all for reducing those, too.
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Agreed. And I think I heard previously anti-Trump Mark Levin, scolding other Republicans for not speaking up.
The drama unfolding appears to be the GOP stands by quietly, leaving it entirely for Trump to defend himself.
You know, the GOP "establishment" which is part of the Swamp Trump stated he wanted to drain?
Yeah, ain't that a pip.
And no matter What Trump gets accomplished that we Agree is a good thing, it's "EXCEPT that, Trump's a Sleazeball", etc.
I spent the last 8 years jumping down my own throat at that God Awful wretch whose party apparatchiks stole the last 2 elections for him.
I refuse to spend This 4 years screaming and tearing my hair out because DJT isn't the perfect, Walk on Water President.
BUT, BUT, BUT, He was Part of that spin machine.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-reagan-wit/
Sam Donaldson: "Mr. President, in talking about the continuing recession tonight, you have blamed mistakes in the past. You have blamed the Congress. Does any of the blame belong to you?"
Ronald Reagan: "Yes, because for many years I was a Democrat!"
Never Trumpers are welcome to their opinions, banal as they are,
But,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAqxWa9Rbe0
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Yeah, ain't that a pip.
And no matter What Trump gets accomplished that we Agree is a good thing, it's "EXCEPT that, Trump's a Sleazeball", etc.
I spent the last 8 years jumping down my own throat at that God Awful wretch whose party apparatchiks stole the last 2 elections for him.
I refuse to spend This 4 years screaming and tearing my hair out because DJT isn't the perfect, Walk on Water President.
BUT, BUT, BUT, He was Part of that spin machine.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-reagan-wit/
Sam Donaldson: "Mr. President, in talking about the continuing recession tonight, you have blamed mistakes in the past. You have blamed the Congress. Does any of the blame belong to you?"
Ronald Reagan: "Yes, because for many years I was a Democrat!"
Never Trumpers are welcome to their opinions, banal as they are,
But,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAqxWa9Rbe0
Well, now. If no one gives a damn, then the topic should be done. Gone. Off the flipping table. But some folks keep poking the nest, hoping for a couple more hornets. Now why is that, exactly?