The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: mystery-ak on April 24, 2014, 02:38:01 pm
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http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/gop-scrambles-condemn-ranchers-remarks-race-n88556 (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/gop-scrambles-condemn-ranchers-remarks-race-n88556)
GOP Scrambles to Condemn Rancher's Remarks on Race
By Carrie Dann
Offering words of encouragement for a rancher leading an armed standoff against federal rangers turns out to be not so great of a political move – especially when the rancher in question muses publicly about the benefits of slavery.
Republicans – including possible 2016 candidate Rand Paul -- are scrambling to distance themselves from defiant Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy after he made startling comments about slavery and African-Americans in a New York Times article published Wednesday night.
From the Times’ Adam Nagourney:
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
Bundy had previously drawn support from some GOP lawmakers for his clash with the Bureau of Land Management.
After Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called Bundy and his allies “domestic violent terrorist wannabes,” fellow Sen. Dean Heller countered last week that they are “patriots.” Paul urged Reid to “calm the rhetoric” and criticized the federal government for what he described as an intimidating presence during the standoff. “The federal government shouldn’t violate the law, nor should we have 48 federal agencies carrying weapons and having SWAT teams,” he told a Kentucky radio station.
In statements after Bundy’s remarks, both Paul and Heller condemned his comments.
"His remarks on race are offensive and I wholeheartedly disagree with him,” said Paul.
And a spokesman for Heller told the Times that the senator “completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy’s appalling and racist statements, and condemns them in the most strenuous way.”
First published April 24th 2014, 8:18 am
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This guy Bundy is a real winner, ain't he? Completely discredits himself with his mouth.
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Yet remarkably silent on the puppeteering of Al Sharpton of one Tawana Brawley.
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There's a lot more to his statement than meets the eye. With half a brain, anyone could read between the lines and get the full meaning. There was a time, including during slavery, that blacks were proud. Even under slavery, the maintained their dignity considering the circumstances. They had a good work ethic, even after slavery.
Today's blacks lament the days when many of the women were 'reduced' to domestic help. It's true many were taken for granted, but it's also true that black women weren't hired merely because they were cheaper, but they were more likely to be more honest and harder workers than their white counterparts.
As so many were treated badly, they maintained their dignity, and lived good, respectable lives. Then, to get the black vote, the Great Society was created. And, as each law was passed, blacks worked less and less, while the democrats helped to erase their dignity. Many overcame it, but there is that element that thrives on being takers. It's not only blacks, but more blacks suffer because of liberal policies. And now, all of America suffers the pains of liberalism.
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Yet remarkably silent on the puppeteering of Al Sharpton of one Tawana Brawley.
The GOP is like a mongoose when it is attacking people they believe are conservatives - but they become as passive as a lamb when it comes to attacking progressives.
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Have these comments been confirmed? So far I've just seen an anonymous NYT report of overhearing this. Same source Harry Reid used for Romney's tax returns?
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Aw Geez.........here we go again. :thud:
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Folks, consider -- we're getting into "Dan Rather" territory here.
No New York Times reporter actually heard these "remarks".
They got these "quotes" from a female reporter in Las Vegas whose political leanings are obvious.
This has the hallmarks of a constructed smear...
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Folks, consider -- we're getting into "Dan Rather" territory here.
No New York Times reporter actually heard these "remarks".
They got these "quotes" from a female reporter in Las Vegas whose political leanings are obvious.
This has the hallmarks of a constructed smear...
Has Bundy denied them?
He's certainly a sideshow. Rick Perry had that response this morning on CBS to a host who was obviously trying to get Perry to comment on Bundy:
"Cliven Bundy is a side issue. The real issue is the federal government coming into to take over land."
That's what conservatives should say. Stay away from defending this old man.
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Rand Paul: Bundy’s racist remarks are ‘offensive’ (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/24/rand-paul-bundys-racist-remarks-are-offensive/)
By Seth McLaughlin
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The Washington Times
Thursday, April 24, 2014
Sen. Rand Paul distanced himself Thursday from Cliven Bundy’s recent remarks on race, roughly a week after the likely 2016 presidential contender knocked the way the federal government has handled the land dispute with the defiant rancher.
“Cliven Bundy’s remarks on race are offensive and I wholeheartedly disagree with him,” Mr. Paul, Kentucky Republican, said via Twitter.
According to the New York Times, Mr. Bundy said that African-Americans “abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton.”
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” Mr. Bundy said, according to The Times, before talking about a public housing project in North Las Vegas. “In front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.
“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he said, according to The Times. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
Mr. Paul had previously vouched for Mr. Bundy by criticizing the government’s handling of the land dispute.
“The federal government shouldn’t violate the law, nor should we have 48 federal agencies carrying weapons and having SWAT teams,” Mr. Paul said on a Kentucky radio station.
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Have these comments been confirmed? So far I've just seen an anonymous NYT report of overhearing this. Same source Harry Reid used for Romney's tax returns?
I don't know. I take NYT the same as Infowars - not seriously. They have a definite agenda! That said, I think this Bundy guy is an older man that uses the term "negro" as a more respectful term than the other n-word. In his generation, that was the term used. I don't agree with the way he said it, but I understand his thinking about it. Blacks are on the Democrat plantation, and any black that dares to try to stray from it gets the Uncle Tom treatment. The Democrat party uses blacks for their votes at election time, and the rest of the time they treat them abominably - destroying their families and lives in a most obvious way. Bundy was trying to say that - but the NYT and other media are jumping on him as this wacko bigoted "Tea Party" domestic terrorist. Bundy is just a regular old guy and isn't sophisticated in the ways and trickery of the media. The GOP are complete cowards and bow down to the media in absolute terror that they will say something bad about them - to the point where they have absolutely no principles left that they will fight for.
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But if the federal government has moved on, Mr. Bundy — a father of 14 and a registered Republican — has not.
He said he would continue holding a daily news conference; on Saturday, it drew one reporter and one photographer, so Mr. Bundy used the time to officiate at what was in effect a town meeting with supporters, discussing, in a long, loping discourse, the prevalence of abortion, the abuses of welfare and his views on race.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/rancher-proudly-breaks-the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?hpw&rref=us&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/24/us/politics/rancher-proudly-breaks-the-law-becoming-a-hero-in-the-west.html?hpw&rref=us&_r=0)
No witnesses or videos? How convenient.
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http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dana-loesch-cliven-bundy-race-comments (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dana-loesch-cliven-bundy-race-comments)
Conservative Pundit Loesch: All Bundy Needed Was Some Media Training!
CATHERINE THOMPSON – APRIL 24, 2014, 11:13 AM EDT
Conservative radio host Loesch believes Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy just needs a little media training.
In a blog post published Thursday, Loesch argued that "the left" is unfairly seizing upon Bundy's remarks about blacks in an attempt to link his anti-government activism to racism.
The New York Times reported Wednesday that Bundy referred to blacks as "the Negro" and criticized what he perceived as welfare abuse in a press conference over the weekend.
"And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy?" he said, as quoted by the Times.
Loesch conceded that those remarks sounded "offensive" when taken at face value, but then defended Bundy as being merely inarticulate -- "an old man rancher isn’t media trained to express himself perfectly," she wrote. She further suggested Bundy really meant to condemn "what big government has done to the black family."
Even if the comments were racist, Loesch argued, the fact that the Times reached out to Republican politicians who previously supported the rancher for responses proved "the left's outrage" over the remarks was in itself disingenuous.
"If Bundy is a racist, that is awful, but what exactly does that have to do with the BLM?" she wrote. "I’ve been saying for weeks that this isn’t about one rancher. It’s about government overreach. It’s about a paramilitarized bureaucratic entity responding to collect a bill in dispute due to arguments over state ownership and open range laws."
"Does Cliven Bundy’s remark make Tommy Henderson, Raymond Yowell, Kenni Patton, and other ranchers in Nevada and north Texas racists then because they also have issues with the BLM? So dissent with the BLM is racist like dissent with Obamacare is racist?" she continued. "Again, this isn’t about one person, but the left would love for it to be so."
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Cliven Bundy’s remarks on race are offensive and I wholeheartedly disagree with him,” Mr. Paul, Kentucky Republican,
AHhhh Shut the **** up
Bundy's right,the blacks would be a lot better off without the welfare state
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This guy Bundy is a real winner, ain't he? Completely discredits himself with his mouth.
Same as Jeb Bush and George W. Bush.
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I read that Glenn Beck urged his listeners to run away. Glenn's just mad, because he's not behind this. He only cares when he's running movements.
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There's a lot more to his statement than meets the eye. With half a brain, anyone could read between the lines and get the full meaning. There was a time, including during slavery, that blacks were proud. Even under slavery, the maintained their dignity considering the circumstances. They had a good work ethic, even after slavery.
Today's blacks lament the days when many of the women were 'reduced' to domestic help. It's true many were taken for granted, but it's also true that black women weren't hired merely because they were cheaper, but they were more likely to be more honest and harder workers than their white counterparts.
As so many were treated badly, they maintained their dignity, and lived good, respectable lives. Then, to get the black vote, the Great Society was created. And, as each law was passed, blacks worked less and less, while the democrats helped to erase their dignity. Many overcame it, but there is that element that thrives on being takers. It's not only blacks, but more blacks suffer because of liberal policies. And now, all of America suffers the pains of liberalism.
Exactly Hap. If one wants to read his statements and get the "worst" out of them, they surely can. But if you want to understand the truth of his message, it can certainly be found. Sure, he isn't the most articulate guy around, but I don't see racism in his words.
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Post on the official FB for the ranch (son runs it) w/ in the past hour:
Bundy Ranch
51 minutes ago
There are new rumors going around about Cliven. We all know that with the media, words are taken out of context, meanings are twisted, and they can take anything and turn it into what they want it to be. Cliven is a good man, he loves all people, he is not a racist man. He wants what is best for everyone.
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch?ref=br_tf
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Media matters released the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnRnhrNFEY#t=64
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http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=6D4C1D1D-EC8B-4E82-A5EE-DAEC95AB7FE2 (http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=6D4C1D1D-EC8B-4E82-A5EE-DAEC95AB7FE2)
Glenn Beck: Cliven Bundy ‘unhinged’
By: Jonathan Topaz
April 24, 2014 12:07 PM EDT
Glenn Beck criticized Cliven Bundy’s comments on race on his radio program Thursday, saying the Nevada rancher is “unhinged from reality” and urging his supporters to “end your relationship” with him.
“He’s often wondered if black people would be better off as slaves?” Beck said on his program, after reading from Bundy’s comments on race reported by The New York Times. “End your relationship. End your relationship. If that doesn’t end your relationship with him, you have to go back and question where did you go wrong. You wondered if blacks were better off as slaves picking cotton and having a family life? They didn’t have a family life!”
The radio host and former Fox News contributor had previously urged conservatives not to align too closely with Bundy. Earlier this month, he warned that the standoff between Bundy and the federal government had brought in “violent, anti-government groups.”
Beck in particular zeroed in on Bundy’s comments about “family life” during slavery. “If he really thinks that slaves had a family life, just that shows you how unhinged from reality this guy is,” Beck said. “You’ve got to distance yourself, you must know who you are standing next to at all times.”
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There's a lot more to his statement than meets the eye. With half a brain, anyone could read between the lines and get the full meaning. There was a time, including during slavery, that blacks were proud. Even under slavery, the maintained their dignity considering the circumstances. They had a good work ethic, even after slavery.
Today's blacks lament the days when many of the women were 'reduced' to domestic help. It's true many were taken for granted, but it's also true that black women weren't hired merely because they were cheaper, but they were more likely to be more honest and harder workers than their white counterparts.
As so many were treated badly, they maintained their dignity, and lived good, respectable lives. Then, to get the black vote, the Great Society was created. And, as each law was passed, blacks worked less and less, while the democrats helped to erase their dignity. Many overcame it, but there is that element that thrives on being takers. It's not only blacks, but more blacks suffer because of liberal policies. And now, all of America suffers the pains of liberalism.
What you said..I refuse to let liberals play the race card...want to talk about racism ? lets talk about the patronizing attitude liberals have toward blacks or their using cries of racism to silence critics of their policies
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Media matters released the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbnRnhrNFEY#t=64
these people are full of ****
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Same as Jeb Bush and George W. Bush.
"Speak for yourself, John Alden." :whistle:
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Same as Jeb Bush and George W. Bush.
?????????????????
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Same as Jeb Bush and George W. Bush.
Jeb and George W. don't describe blacks as Step-n-Fetchits.
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Aw Geez.........here we go again. :thud:
Yep
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Who said "I will have those nigg*rs voting Democratic for 200 years"?
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Never make a hero, or symbol out of someone about whom you have insufficient information.
We know the left plays dirty. We know the stereotypes of conservatives.
And we know who controls the message.
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Jeb and George W. don't describe blacks as Step-n-Fetchits.
They mispeak a lot though.
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Never make a hero, or symbol out of someone about whom you have insufficient information.
We know the left plays dirty. We know the stereotypes of conservatives.
And we know who controls the message.
We're not making a hero out of him. It's the situation involving the ranch and the government that is the issue.
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They mispeak a lot though.
Even if that were true, it's entirely irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
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Bundy responds. http://therightscoop.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-responds-to-charges-of-racism-the-statement-was-right/
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?????????????????
sinkspur said the rancher discredits himself with his own mouth. Same as Jeb and George w.
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We're not making a hero out of him. It's the situation involving the ranch and the government that is the issue.
Who, exactly, is "we?"
Bundy has been made a hero by many on the right, with insufficient information about who he is.
Obviously........
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sinkspur said the rancher discredits himself with his own mouth. Same as Jeb and George w.
No parallel whatsoever.
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Bundy stands by his 'better off' as slaves comments (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=136486.new#new)
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They mispeak a lot though.
Not really. And Cliven Bundy didn't "mispeak." In fact, he's come out in the NY Times and stood by every statement he made
http://therightscoop.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-responds-to-charges-of-racism-the-statement-was-right/
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Even if that were true, it's entirely irrelevant to the topic of the thread.
No it's not. sinkspur is a Republican establishment person, and I'm pointing out people running for president who mispeak, and have done a lot to hurt the Republicans.
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Not really. And Cliven Bundy didn't "mispeak." In fact, he's come out in the NY Times and stood by every statement he made
http://therightscoop.com/breaking-cliven-bundy-responds-to-charges-of-racism-the-statement-was-right/
They said on Facebook that the media twisted his words. George W. Bush didn't mispeak? "I don't read newspapers. I'm not worried about Bin Laden etc." Jeb Bush just mispoke about illegal immigration.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI)
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No it's not. sinkspur is a Republican establishment person, and I'm pointing out people running for president who mispeak, and have done a lot to hurt the Republicans.
"Misspeak" is a leftist word for lie.
And algor had more gaffes than George W. Bush, who, considering how many words he spoke, didn't make that many errors. (They were just ridiculed by the left because he was their enemy).
And Bundy is apparently standing by his statement, ergo it was not "misspeaking."
Your parallel is completely wrong.
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Who, exactly, is "we?"
Bundy has been made a hero by many on the right, with insufficient information about who he is.
Obviously........
It has nothing to do with the government overstepping.
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"Misspeak" is a leftist word for lie.
And algor had more gaffes than George W. Bush, who, considering how many words he spoke, didn't make that many errors. (They were just ridiculed by the left because he was their enemy).
And Bundy is apparently standing by his statement, ergo it was not "misspeaking."
Your parallel is completely wrong.
"I don't read newspapers. I'm not worried about Bin Laden etc."
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Whenever you have to explain someone's statement on racial or gender issues, you've already lost that particular battle. It really doesn't matter what life was really like under slavery. Nobody wants to debate that one, well...almost nobody.
I'm reminded of a spoof tape that was going around in the 1960s from Vietnam. It was an interview by a fake reporter asking an F-4 pilot about his experiences. After each of the pilot's answers, a fake public affairs officer would explain in PC terms. It was called "What the Captain Means" and can be found on the internet. It's funny as hell.
Bundy might need a "public affairs specialist" to help him along, lol.
From a reading of some of the posts here, I sense I should be taking this all more seriously, but I just can't... :whistle:
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"I don't read newspapers. I'm not worried about Bin Laden etc."
Your parallel is completely wrong.
Period.
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No it's not. sinkspur is a Republican establishment person, and I'm pointing out people running for president who mispeak, and have done a lot to hurt the Republicans.
LOL!! What's "an establishment person"?
You attempted to change the subject and everybody on this thread is calling you on it.
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Your parallel is completely wrong.
Period.
It's not wrong. The rancher is just an activist, while sinkspur supports politicians like Bush who hurt our cause. sinkspur said that the rancher is doing wonders with his words. Look at Jeb and W's words.
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It has nothing to do with the government overstepping.
WHAT has nothing to do with the government overstepping?
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LOL!! What's "an establishment person"?
You attempted to change the subject and everybody on this thread is calling you on it.
You Republican establishment members are falling for the left trying to change the topic to the rancher's comments on race instead of the government overstepping.
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WHAT has nothing to do with the government overstepping?
Making a hero out of the rancher.
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It's not wrong. The rancher is just an activist, while sinkspur supports politicians like Bush who hurt our cause. sinkspur said that the rancher is doing wonders with his words. Look at Jeb and W's words.
Sorry. You're wrong.
Cliven Bundy obviously thinks slavery was preferable to the welfare state.
As evil as the welfare state is, his words are INSANE.
There is NO parallel with anyone named Bush, or any other Republican presidential candidate.
No matter how much you don't like them.
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Making a hero out of the rancher.
You need to speak in complete sentences.
As it stands, you're not communicating very well.
Explain yourself in complete thoughts, please. You might have some kind of a point, but so far, it's hard to find one.
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Clive Bundy replies to NY Times article:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCJ59tls0vc&feature=player_detailpage
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You Republican establishment members are falling for the left trying to change the topic to the rancher's comments on race instead of the government overstepping.
I'm not falling for it. But, even though Bundy IS a neanderthal, neanderthal's need protection from the government, too.
Why you decided to drag Jeb and George W. Bush into the discussion is what puzzles me. Can you point to any openly racist remarks they ever made?
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Is this kindergarten? People are not all good or all evil. Even Hitler played a kick ass harp. Blues harp. As in harmonica.
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So Cliven Bundy is a racist.
That has nothing to do with the issues at hand in this dispute. The only way it would have anything is if he didn't mean it; that would mean he's prone to making outrageous statements he knows are not true, which does hurt his credibility in general.
Bundy has opened himself (and many others) up to a classic character-assassination/distraction campaign. Todd Akin would be proud.
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You see the squalor of government warehousing and cheese? These people are no better off.
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You see the squalor of government warehousing and cheese? These people are no better off.
Nonsense. They can get out of the squalor if they so choose. They could not escape slavery.
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Nonsense. They can get out of the squalor if they so choose. They could not escape slavery.
I'm not sure if that's correct. From recent things I've read, SOME slaves were able to use skills to buy themselves out of slavery. There were also a great number of Irish slaves in America.
Much of American slavery was flim-flammed by "Uncle Tom's Cabin". There were more slave families keep together than sold apart. Just the concept of "slave families" is a unique concept in the world at the time.
There is this concept of willful ignorance among Americans. If they don't teach it in school, people don't take a moment to research.
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I'm not sure if that's correct. From recent things I've read, SOME slaves were able to use skills to buy themselves out of slavery. There were also a great number of Irish slaves in America.
Much of American slavery was flim-flammed by "Uncle Tom's Cabin". There were more slave families keep together than sold apart. Just the concept of "slave families" is a unique concept in the world at the time.
There is this concept of willful ignorance among Americans. If they don't teach it in school, people don't take a moment to research.
Number one........I am not 'willfully ignorant.'
Number two.........Dred Scott decision.
Number three........Lincoln/Douglas debates.
Number four..........if ANY children were sold away from their homes, it is a travesty.
Number five..........indentured servitude is not slavery.
Number six...........Democrat history, both pre and post Civil War.
Sorry, onc. You can't win an argument saying that slavery wasn't all that bad, and that owning another human being, no big deal.
You can't.
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Number one........I am not 'willfully ignorant.'
Number two.........Dred Scott decision.
Number three........Lincoln/Douglas debates.
Number four..........if ANY children were sold away from their homes, it is a travesty.
Number five..........indentured servitude is not slavery.
Number six...........Democrat history, both pre and post Civil War.
Sorry, onc. You can't win an argument saying that slavery wasn't all that bad, and that owning another human being, no big deal.
You can't.
I wasn't calling you willfully ignorant.
This is the second time in less than a week something like this has happened. If I thought you were being willfully ignorant, I would have said you were willfully ignorant.
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I wasn't calling you willfully ignorant.
This is the second time in less than a week something like this has happened. If I thought you were being willfully ignorant, I would have said you were willfully ignorant.
Sorry about that. I thought it was implied in your first post.
Any comments about the reality of the evil of slavery?
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http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/gop-scrambles-condemn-ranchers-remarks-race-n88556 (http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/gop-scrambles-condemn-ranchers-remarks-race-n88556)
GOP Scrambles to Condemn Rancher's Remarks on Race
By Carrie Dann
Offering words of encouragement for a rancher leading an armed standoff against federal rangers turns out to be not so great of a political move – especially when the rancher in question muses publicly about the benefits of slavery.
Republicans – including possible 2016 candidate Rand Paul -- are scrambling to distance themselves from defiant Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy after he made startling comments about slavery and African-Americans in a New York Times article published Wednesday night.
From the Times’ Adam Nagourney:
Bundy had previously drawn support from some GOP lawmakers for his clash with the Bureau of Land Management.
After Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid called Bundy and his allies “domestic violent terrorist wannabes,” fellow Sen. Dean Heller countered last week that they are “patriots.” Paul urged Reid to “calm the rhetoric” and criticized the federal government for what he described as an intimidating presence during the standoff. “The federal government shouldn’t violate the law, nor should we have 48 federal agencies carrying weapons and having SWAT teams,” he told a Kentucky radio station.
In statements after Bundy’s remarks, both Paul and Heller condemned his comments.
"His remarks on race are offensive and I wholeheartedly disagree with him,” said Paul.
And a spokesman for Heller told the Times that the senator “completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy’s appalling and racist statements, and condemns them in the most strenuous way.”
First published April 24th 2014, 8:18 am
Screw the GOP Cowards. I have had my fill with these unprincipled spineless wimps. They really make me ill.
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:th_10444:
Screw the GOP Cowards. I have had my fill with these unprincipled spineless wimps. They really make me ill.
Keyboard warriors can say that. Those in the public square have to be more circumspect.
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Screw the GOP Cowards. I have had my fill with these unprincipled spineless wimps. They really make me ill.
Spot on!!
:beer:
They, and their supporters, are a vile and disgusting lot.