The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: rangerrebew on November 25, 2018, 05:10:24 pm
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More millennials are moving back home - and it's making everyone depressed:
20-somethings AND their parents experience a blow to their mental health when they ‘boomerang’ back, studies find
About a third of young American adults live with their parents
Many of them have moved out and 'boomeranged' back amid financial or personal stress
Researchers at the Max Planck Institute in Germany found that moving back home might save money, but it can tank confidence and mental health
Previous London School of Economics research found that parents' quality of life worsens as much as if they developed a disability when their children move back
By Natalie Rahhal Deputy Health Editor For Dailymail.com
Published: 13:40 EST, 20 November 2018 | Updated: 18:33 EST, 20 November 2018
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6410835/More-millennials-moving-home-making-depressed-studies-find.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6410835/More-millennials-moving-home-making-depressed-studies-find.html)
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I have half an idea where this 33% live....
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/fd/aa/25fdaa761398c88a4304a0d33f0abc82.jpg)
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Who raised these millennials? I don’t feel sorry for their parents.
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Who raised these millennials? I don’t feel sorry for their parents.
As the parent of two millennials let me say in my defense that sometimes it's situations beyond their control.
My son had to move back in temporarily because the room mate he had an apartment with flaked on him and moved back in with his ex girlfriend and my sone was stuck with an apartment that his name wasn't on the lease.
He's trying to find a place right now but it's a little pricey in Colorado Springs to do it on your own...so he's helping out and paying us some money while he stays at our place and looks for a new one of his own.
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As the parent of two millennials let me say in my defense that sometimes it's situations beyond their control.
My son had to move back in temporarily because the room mate he had an apartment with flaked on him and moved back in with his ex girlfriend and my sone was stuck with an apartment that his name wasn't on the lease.
He's trying to find a place right now but it's a little pricey in Colorado Springs to do it on your own...so he's helping out and paying us some money while he stays at our place and looks for a new one of his own.
Same thing happened with my oldest son: one of his cousins and a friend flaked out on the apartment lease.
We've been charging him nominal rent, as he's now saving up for his marriage in the near future. His fiancée, a lovely girl in every way, will be a welcome addition to our family.
O/T, her Christmas gifts to me the past two years have been nothing short of perfect. They weren't expensive, but very thoughtful.
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As the parent of two millennials let me say in my defense that sometimes it's situations beyond their control.
My son had to move back in temporarily because the room mate he had an apartment with flaked on him and moved back in with his ex girlfriend and my sone was stuck with an apartment that his name wasn't on the lease.
He's trying to find a place right now but it's a little pricey in Colorado Springs to do it on your own...so he's helping out and paying us some money while he stays at our place and looks for a new one of his own.
I’m not lumping all millennials together; there are always extenuating circumstances.
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Millennials were born into an America that's hard to get by in when you're starting from the bottom. They didn't ask for that; they had no choice. Blaming them for struggling is cruel and unfair.
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Millennials were born into an America that's hard to get by in when you're starting from the bottom. They didn't ask for that; they had no choice. Blaming them for struggling is cruel and unfair.
If their parents didn't equip them with the necessary life skills to survive on their own it's very much the parents fault.
If the millennials are the type that's too lazy to get off their X Box or playstation to get a job and do nothing to help around the house...it's very much the fault of the lazy 20 something.
It's excuses like you're trying to make for them that give individuals the justification to not get out and try to make something of themselves.
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If their parents didn't equip them with the necessary life skills to survive on their own it's very much the parents fault.
If the millennials are the type that's too lazy to get off their X Box or playstation to get a job and do nothing to help around the house...it's very much the fault of the lazy 20 something.
It's excuses like you're trying to make for them that give individuals the justification to not get out and try to make something of themselves.
I'm not saying people should give up. I'm saying it's a lot harder for young people to be financially independent these days due to decisions that were made before they were born. There's a whole lot of millennials out there working their asses off for not a whole lot of pay. It must have been nice when one income could easily support a household and pay for college out of pocket.
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I'm not saying people should give up. I'm saying it's a lot harder for young people to be financially independent these days due to decisions that were made before they were born. There's a whole lot of millennials out there working their asses off for not a whole lot of pay. It must have been nice when one income could easily support a household and pay for college out of pocket.
It is a lot harder to get started on the ground floor than it used to be. A lot of that has to do with government policies on pay and benefits; it’s simply a lot more expensive to take someone on at the ground floor in the hope that he or she will develop some strong skills from the experience. As a result, fewer people can get in through what used to be the tried and true method.
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Millennials were born into an America that's hard to get by in when you're starting from the bottom. They didn't ask for that; they had no choice. Blaming them for struggling is cruel and unfair.
We raised four millennials, all of whom are productive citizens, living on their own, and contributing to the betterment of society. We help them financially when it is needed, mostly because they never ask for it and are thankful when it is given.
It's not hard to get by in America if you were raised with a work ethic. Our kids stood out from others even in their summer jobs in high school because they showed up for work on time and worked hard, and their peers didn't.
The problem is not with America per se, it is with the baby boomers who raised lazy, self-absorbed children who don't know how to work, but expect to live by the same standards as their parents who worked for decades to get what they have.
(Temporary help and housing, as has been mentioned above, is not the same as having children who are basically indolent.....which describes many millennials).
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Same thing happened with my oldest son: one of his cousins and a friend flaked out on the apartment lease.
We've been charging him nominal rent, as he's now saving up for his marriage in the near future. His fiancée, a lovely girl in every way, will be a welcome addition to our family.
On the other hand, I look at it as, when your kids pay rent, that transfers your family wealth to some other family. Economically, it makes more sense to live at home sometimes, especially if it allows your kids to save the money to invest in. And there's a tremendous advantage to start investing in your 20s, than waiting until your 30s.
Asians understand this concept, and that's why they are taking over.
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I'm not saying people should give up. I'm saying it's a lot harder for young people to be financially independent these days due to decisions that were made before they were born. There's a whole lot of millennials out there working their asses off for not a whole lot of pay. It must have been nice when one income could easily support a household and pay for college out of pocket.
A lot of millennials should have gone to trade school instead of college, and they'd be doing just fine.
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On the other hand, I look at it as, when your kids pay rent, that transfers your family wealth to some other family. Economically, it makes more sense to live at home sometimes, especially if it allows your kids to save the money to invest in. And there's a tremendous advantage to start investing in your 20s, than waiting until your 30s.
I don't think that kids living at home paying rent fit the description of lazy millennials.
Sometimes circumstances require it.
(In the early 1970's I started teaching at $7,000/year and I couldn't afford both food and an apartment on that salary. I lived at home and paid rent for a few years. Not the same as "failure to launch").
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Millennials were born into an America that's hard to get by in when you're starting from the bottom. They didn't ask for that; they had no choice. Blaming them for struggling is cruel and unfair.
So were those born during the Depression, and then they liberated an entire continent. The difference is, the generation that I referred to didn’t get participation trophies. Cruel and unfair? Again, tell that to their parents who participation trophied them upon false self esteem pedestals while at the same time bowling down any obstacles in their paths. My kids’ peers’ parents are mostly millennials and they’re a hot mess. The few millennials who are making it are those who are taking advantage of the fact that their peers are a hot mess, and I say good for them.
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On the other hand, I look at it as, when your kids pay rent, that transfers your family wealth to some other family. Economically, it makes more sense to live at home sometimes, especially if it allows your kids to save the money to invest in. And there's a tremendous advantage to start investing in your 20s, than waiting until your 30s.
Asians understand this concept, and that's why they are taking over.
If he’s paying rent, then he’s not in a classic millennial situation. Millennials don’t typically pay rent, mom and dad complain about it, but then give him money for a new iPhone because they don’t want to hurt his self esteem.
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A lot of millennials should have gone to trade school instead of college, and they'd be doing just fine.
And that is the truth. College is highly overrated and the cost to attend is a terrible value for degree alot of these kids come away with. Yutes learning to be Plumbers, HVAC, electricians (to name just a few trades) can earn a hella good living long before a college grad pays off his student loans
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I'm not saying people should give up. I'm saying it's a lot harder for young people to be financially independent these days due to decisions that were made before they were born. There's a whole lot of millennials out there working their asses off for not a whole lot of pay. It must have been nice when one income could easily support a household and pay for college out of pocket.
The socialist programs you so rabidly support are the reasons for those things you lament being harder now than in the past.
Pity you don't see that.
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The socialist programs you so rabidly support are the reasons for those things you lament being harder now than in the past.
Pity you don't see that.
Young people don't struggle like they do here in places like Sweden.
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I don't think that kids living at home paying rent fit the description of lazy millennials.
Sometimes circumstances require it.
(In the early 1970's I started teaching at $7,000/year and I couldn't afford both food and an apartment on that salary. I lived at home and paid rent for a few years. Not the same as "failure to launch").
I agree, it doesn't necessarily mean lazy. As I stated, it is becoming economic necessity for extended families to pull together to maximize wealth within the "clan".
Just kicking the kids out and expecting them to make it on their own is not realistic anymore. But the government has waged war on the family for decades, and now we see the bitter fruit that has come from it.
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It's not hard to get by in America if you were raised with a work ethic.
It's harder than it used to be. I think that's something older Americans don't give attention to often enough.
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A lot of millennials should have gone to trade school instead of college, and they'd be doing just fine.
Young people often have ridiculous desires, like chasing their passions and dreams. When tiny ones in your life tell you they want to be scientists and astronauts etc do you tell them they should chase their dreams, or that they should be more practical and look for an AC repair or welding job?
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Just kicking the kids out and expecting them to make it on their own is not realistic anymore.
Yet it's still expected a lot of the time, and a lot of young people are suffering a lot because of it. Young people work ridiculously hard. Suggesting otherwise is an insult.
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So were those born during the Depression, and then they liberated an entire continent. The difference is, the generation that I referred to didn’t get participation trophies. Cruel and unfair? Again, tell that to their parents who participation trophied them upon false self esteem pedestals while at the same time bowling down any obstacles in their paths. My kids’ peers’ parents are mostly millennials and they’re a hot mess. The few millennials who are making it are those who are taking advantage of the fact that their peers are a hot mess, and I say good for them.
Thank you. I was thinking the same thing as I was reading through a couple of the comments here. Babies whine, adults get shit done.
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Babies whine, adults get shit done.
Easy to say when you were part of the most privileged generation in the history of the world.
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Young people often have ridiculous desires, like chasing their passions and dreams. When tiny ones in your life tell you they want to be scientists and astronauts etc do you tell them they should chase their dreams, or that they should be more practical and look for an AC repair or welding job?
It depends how:
1. intelligent they are
2. driven they are
3. creative they are
etc.
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Easy to say when you were part of the most privileged generation in the history of the world.
It is easy for me to say, but I had great, first hand examples of hard working, blue-collar adults in my family that didn't let me get away with being lazy in my school work. That then allowed me to work hard getting my engineering degree and then work hard getting a job and keeping that job.
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Easy to say when you were part of the most privileged generation in the history of the world.
Hey @RoosGirl Now you have generational on top of your white privilege!
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Hey @RoosGirl Now you have generational on top of your white privilege!
Yeah, but I can minus 1 for being a woman. Hell, I can probably minus 2 for that these days. :tongue2:
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Young people often have ridiculous desires, like chasing their passions and dreams. When tiny ones in your life tell you they want to be scientists and astronauts etc do you tell them they should chase their dreams, or that they should be more practical and look for an AC repair or welding job?
That was a ridiculous response to what I said.
Go back, read it again, think about it, and then try replying with something thoughtful and not stupid.
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That was a ridiculous response to what I said.
Go back, read it again, think about it, and then try replying with something thoughtful and not stupid.
Today is Troll day at Dex's place. He's on SoCons today.
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I work in employee benefits.
Nearly all my group clients across the board say millenials are are the most entitled, selfish, lazy, drugged out group they have ever had to hire. Not all, there are many ambitious, hard working millenials.
Many of these groups are hiring older folks and keeping their baby boomer employees happy with bonus and extra pay and perks so they don't leave.
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Yeah, but I can minus 1 for being a woman. Hell, I can probably minus 2 for that these days. :tongue2:
+5 for being a woman. Woman have it made today. 85% of all dentistry, phamacy, veterinarian schools enrollements today are women and 65% of college students are now women.
Try being a straight white male in todays white collar job market. My nephew works for a marketing firm.. 14 people on his team, two white guys, rest are women/black and hispanics.
@RoosGirl
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+5 for being a woman. Woman have it made today. 85% of all dentistry, phamacy, veterinarian schools enrollements today are women and 65% of college students are now women.
Try being a straight white male in todays white collar job market. My nephew works for a marketing firm.. 14 people on his team, two white guys, rest are women/black and hispanics.
@RoosGirl
Yeah, now, but not when I graduated from high school.
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A lot of millennials should have gone to trade school instead of college, and they'd be doing just fine.
In a lot of cases I believe this also. College has turned into one of the biggest wealth siphons in America with in many cases absolutely no return for the money paid. I would lay this firmly at the feet of the liberal administrators that created Bolshevik classes and degrees that are totally worthless to the students and society as a whole. There are many well paying trades that are open to both men and women but all our children are sold a false agenda in lower education that they all must go to college or university to be successful all the while they are there they accrue an almost insurmountable debt.
Student loans in their current form, I believe, were developed to enrich the loan companies and the universities while ensnaring our children, why else would the liberals continually dangle the bait of student loan forgiveness, if the debtors would only vote them into power?
Too many students pay astronomical sums only to receive (http://i64.tinypic.com/2a9b577.jpg)
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I’m not sure why there’s such a beat-up on @Dexter on this thread; he hasn’t said anything particularly worth that treatment. And is anyone going to deny that it is harder to get a start from the very bottom than it was 20 or 30 years ago? Those sorts of jobs are a lot fewer than they used to be, for lots of reasons.
I would also add a vote in favor of greater attendance at trade schools as opposed to going direct to college.
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It depends how:
1. intelligent they are
2. driven they are
3. creative they are
etc.
@RoosGirl
How dare you respond to emotion with common sense! (http://i64.tinypic.com/15cg2s0.jpg) :tongue2: :silly: :silly: :silly:
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Millennials were born into an America that's hard to get by in when you're starting from the bottom. They didn't ask for that; they had no choice. Blaming them for struggling is cruel and unfair.
If they accepted the same standard of living common for someone starting out a generation or two ago, there would be no problem at all starting out.
But when big screen TV's and the like are considered basic necessities, it is no wonder you start with a struggle. What percentage of their salary goes to the vehicle compared to a couple decades ago?
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If they accepted the same standard of living common for someone starting out a generation or two ago, there would be no problem at all starting out.
But when big screen TV's and the like are considered basic necessities, it is no wonder you start with a struggle. What percentage of their salary goes to the vehicle compared to a couple decades ago?
In case you haven’t noticed, prices for most vehicles have gone up since you started out several decades ago.
There is certainly truth to both sides of the argument here, but @Dexter is not just whistling Dixie here.
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Young people often have ridiculous desires, like chasing their passions and dreams. When tiny ones in your life tell you they want to be scientists and astronauts etc do you tell them they should chase their dreams, or that they should be more practical and look for an AC repair or welding job?
Young people chasing their "passions and dreams" is a common theme among generations going back to well before America was founded.
This generation is experiencing nothing new that hasn't been encountered in generations past where that is concerned.
The only difference now is we have a society that believes in mollycoddling it's young people and protecting them from ever hearing a harsh word, losing a youth sporting game ever having to know what it's like to pick yourself up after you've failed. They are wrapped in bubble wrap and when it's time for them to go their own way and the protective cocoon comes off...they are totally lost.
It's no wonder they run back home. Today's society has made them soft and incapable...with some exceptions...of functioning without mom and dads help.
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Young people don't struggle like they do here in places like Sweden.
Struggling, failing and succeeding is necessary to become a full mature human.
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Yet it's still expected a lot of the time, and a lot of young people are suffering a lot because of it. Young people work ridiculously hard. Suggesting otherwise is an insult.
I've employed quite a few millennials. I know they think they do, but they really, really don't know what hard work is.
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In case you haven’t noticed, prices for most vehicles have gone up since you started out several decades ago.
There is certainly truth to both sides of the argument here, but @Dexter is not just whistling Dixie here.
You can still get cheap vehicles if you're willing to drive something that isn't 'cool.' You can also live without smart TV's, the latest I phones and numerous other items that millennials tend to think they can't live without.
When we got started more than 40 years ago, we did without a whole host of things that our parents had because they had worked hard to earn them. We bought a home for $37,000, went down to one car, and when we ran out of food items, we waited until the next paycheck to buy them. We never went out to eat either.
A lot of young folks are "house poor" because they buy homes they want and not homes they need. Same with vehicles.
Most parents haven't taught their kids to live on the cheap and save money for the future. Most kids now have the idea that they are entitled to things, and expect the government to do that for them.
I put the blame largely on indulgent parents and on schools and universities that have brainwashed most people under forty to be takers and not providers.
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Struggling, failing and succeeding is necessary to become a full mature human.
Best post of the thread.
It's not a bad thing to struggle, but most young'ns believe it is because they are entitled to an easy life. Part of that is complete ignorance of history and what previous generations lived without.
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Young people often have ridiculous desires, like chasing their passions and dreams. When tiny ones in your life tell you they want to be scientists and astronauts etc do you tell them they should chase their dreams, or that they should be more practical and look for an AC repair or welding job?
Here’s Mike Rowe on why you SHOULD NOT follow your passion: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEuPmVAb8o
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Here’s Mike Rowe on why you SHOULD NOT follow your passion: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEuPmVAb8o
@Dexter I'll be very interested in what you think of Rowe's argument.
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Struggling, failing and succeeding is necessary to become a full mature human.
I’m at the tail end of GenX so the millennials are right behind me. The best thing my parents ever let me do was fall on my ass and then let me pick myself up.
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In case you haven’t noticed, prices for most vehicles have gone up since you started out several decades ago.
There is certainly truth to both sides of the argument here, but @Dexter is not just whistling Dixie here.
And wages have gone up. And, Heaven forbid, people can buy used cars. Craigslist right this moment has a ton of cars for well under $5k.
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@Dexter I'll be very interested in what you think of Rowe's argument.
Me too. I doubt Mr Mike is one he agrees with.
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Here’s Mike Rowe on why you SHOULD NOT follow your passion: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CVEuPmVAb8o
Meh, took Mike 5 dang minutes to say what I said in 4 lines. :laugh:
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And wages have gone up. And, Heaven forbid, people can buy used cars. Craigslist right this moment has a ton of cars for well under $5k.
Wages haven’t tracked inflation, not at the level being discussed.
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In case you haven’t noticed, prices for most vehicles have gone up since you started out several decades ago.
There is certainly truth to both sides of the argument here, but @Dexter is not just whistling Dixie here.
Prices have gone up on many things; that doesn’t mean that I keep buying them. A particular millennial my husband works with just bought the new $1K iPhone, after griping about how expensive it is to feed his kids (which are our kids’ age). He doesn’t understand how I cook a meal everyday and pack lunches. His wife (a stay at home mom who doesn’t cook, clean, do laundry, or do yard work) is just always so exhausted from momming. I work full time. He doesn’t understand why I just don’t take it easy and go through a drive-thru every night like his wife. With three kids, our Mickey D’s tab would easily be $30 nightly! Do you know how much organic food/ingredients I can buy for $30?!
Anyway, back to the iPhone. This millennial also laughed at me for waiting for the 7 to drop to $450 and then take advantage of a $300 mail in rebate from xfinity mobile. Laughed. At. Me.
I post this because this millennial is not the exception, he is the rule. There are millennials unlike him, but they are few and far between.
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Meh, took Mike 5 dang minutes to say what I said in 4 lines. :laugh:
Brevity is a gift :silly:
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Brevity is a gift :silly:
888high58888
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Wages haven’t tracked inflation, not at the level being discussed.
Not sure cars can track with inflation since all the gov't regulations imposed on them to meet safety, environmental, efficiency, etc. standards.
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And wages have gone up. And, Heaven forbid, people can buy used cars. Craigslist right this moment has a ton of cars for well under $5k.
That goes back to the problem of young people wanting things above what they can afford, rather than going to a place like Craigslist and getting something they actually can afford.
Many of them want to start at the top because they've been told all their lives that they're "special" and they deserve whatever they want.
Obviously there are many millennials who are hard working and frugal, but they are the exceptions.
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I’m at the tail end of GenX so the millennials are right behind me. The best thing my parents ever let me do was fall on my ass and then let me pick myself up.
You had good parents.
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Not sure cars can track with inflation since all the gov't regulations imposed on them to meet safety, environmental, efficiency, etc. standards.
Which simply proves my point: things have gotten a lot more expensive now, relative to where they were 20 or 30 years ago, particularly for someone just starting out.
For example, it used to be that a minor fender-bender would not take a car off the road. Now, if the airbags go, that car will be a write-off, even if it wasn’t that old. Happened to a millennial I know. He was careful to save up his money, bought a car that was only a few years old, and then during a snow storm hit a patch of ice and ran off the road. The airbags went off and the insurance company wrote it off and paid him 75% of fmv, which left him with no car and not enough money to get an adequate replacement. When that happened to me in my first car, which I bought for $800 when it was only about 14 years old, I didn’t even bother with the insurance company; I went to the junk yard, bought a new left front fender and grill for about $75, and spent an afternoon unbolting the old one and bolting on the new one. My friend could not have done that with his car and still had a car that would pass safety inspection, or even have been drivable.
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That goes back to the problem of young people wanting things above what they can afford, rather than going to a place like Craigslist and getting something they actually can afford.
Many of them want to start at the top because they've been told all their lives that they're "special" and they deserve whatever they want.
Obviously there are many millennials who are hard working and frugal, but they are the exceptions.
And I always think about my grandparents who *rented to own* a coffee maker because they couldn't afford to buy one. A freaking coffee maker.
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You had good parents.
My parents were late in life kids of Depression parents. My maternal grandmother once commented that when the Depression hit, there was no change in their lives. They were so poor they had nothing to lose. Flour sack clothing and a pot of beans for dinner every night was going to happen with or without the stock market crash.
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Which simply proves my point: things have gotten a lot more expensive now, relative to where they were 20 or 30 years ago, particularly for someone just starting out.
For example, it used to be that a minor fender-bender would not take a car off the road. Now, if the airbags go, that car will be a write-off, even if it wasn’t that old. Happened to a millennial I know. He was careful to save up his money, bought a car that was only a few years old, and then during a snow storm hit a patch of ice and ran off the road. The airbags went off and the insurance company wrote it off and paid him 75% of fmv, which left him with no car and not enough money to get an adequate replacement. When that happened to me in my first car, which I bought for $800 when it was only about 14 years old, I didn’t even bother with the insurance company; I went to the junk yard, bought a new left front fender and grill for about $75, and spent an afternoon unbolting the old one and bolting on the new one. My friend could not have done that with his car and still had a car that would pass safety inspection, or even have been drivable.
No one forced him to buy that expensive of a car to begin with. He could have paid half what he did for that car and when it was totaled been able to afford another car. Perhaps he spent more than he should have to begin with. Shit happens.
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Which simply proves my point: things have gotten a lot more expensive now, relative to where they were 20 or 30 years ago, particularly for someone just starting out.
For example, it used to be that a minor fender-bender would not take a car off the road. Now, if the airbags go, that car will be a write-off, even if it wasn’t that old. Happened to a millennial I know. He was careful to save up his money, bought a car that was only a few years old, and then during a snow storm hit a patch of ice and ran off the road. The airbags went off and the insurance company wrote it off and paid him 75% of fmv, which left him with no car and not enough money to get an adequate replacement. When that happened to me in my first car, which I bought for $800 when it was only about 14 years old, I didn’t even bother with the insurance company; I went to the junk yard, bought a new left front fender and grill for about $75, and spent an afternoon unbolting the old one and bolting on the new one. My friend could not have done that with his car and still had a car that would pass safety inspection, or even have been drivable.
Obama's "Cash for Clunkers" took a lot of perfectly good used cars off of the market, and forced car prices up.
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And I always think about my grandparents who *rented to own* a coffee maker because they couldn't afford to buy one. A freaking coffee maker.
Amazing.
That brings "living within one's means" to a whole new level.
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Which simply proves my point: things have gotten a lot more expensive now, relative to where they were 20 or 30 years ago, particularly for someone just starting out.
For example, it used to be that a minor fender-bender would not take a car off the road. Now, if the airbags go, that car will be a write-off, even if it wasn’t that old. Happened to a millennial I know. He was careful to save up his money, bought a car that was only a few years old, and then during a snow storm hit a patch of ice and ran off the road. The airbags went off and the insurance company wrote it off and paid him 75% of fmv, which left him with no car and not enough money to get an adequate replacement. When that happened to me in my first car, which I bought for $800 when it was only about 14 years old, I didn’t even bother with the insurance company; I went to the junk yard, bought a new left front fender and grill for about $75, and spent an afternoon unbolting the old one and bolting on the new one. My friend could not have done that with his car and still had a car that would pass safety inspection, or even have been drivable.
I don’t know why I remember shopping for my freshman year of high school but I do. Probably because it was a big step? Anyway, my mom complained that the jeans at Walmart were more expensive than she thought they’d be at $14/pair. That was the summer 1993. I just ordered a couple of pairs of jeans from Kohl’s because they’re on sale for $20/pair. Some things cost more, some things don’t.
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No one forced him to buy that expensive of a car to begin with. He could have paid half what he did for that car and when it was totaled been able to afford another car. Perhaps he spent more than he should have to begin with. Shit happens.
It wasn’t that expensive. That’s the point. But it is as expensive enough that he could not replace it after a simple fender-bender due to the fact that the effing generations that preceded his, including your generation, have made things so much more expensive by mandating so much more expensive add-ons to the basic car.
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Obama's "Cash for Clunkers" took a lot of perfectly good used cars off of the market, and forced car prices up.
That was over 9 years ago now. I'm betting most people don't have those cars they bought back then and the used car market has plenty of re-supply.
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I don’t know why I remember shopping for my freshman year of high school but I do. Probably because it was a big step? Anyway, my mom complained that the jeans at Walmart were more expensive than she thought they’d be at $14/pair. That was the summer 1993. I just ordered a couple of pairs of jeans from Kohl’s because they’re on sale for $20/pair. Some things cost more, some things don’t.
Wonderful. I’ll tell my friend to go buy some Kohl’s jeans and then close his eyes and pretend really, really hard that they’re really the car he needs to drive to get to work.
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It wasn’t that expensive. That’s the point. But it is as expensive enough that he could not replace it after a simple fender-bender due to the fact that the effing generations that preceded his, including your generation, have made things so much more expensive by mandating so much more expensive add-ons to the basic car.
Yes, it was the generations and not the old dusty bleep in Congress that mandated all the add-ons. *****rollingeyes*****
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My parents were late in life kids of Depression parents. My maternal grandmother once commented that when the Depression hit, there was no change in their lives. They were so poor they had nothing to lose. Flour sack clothing and a pot of beans for dinner every night was going to happen with or without the stock market crash.
My parents grew up during the Depression and even though my Dad was a medical professional, we never wasted ANYTHING, nor spent money on things we didn't need. We were the last people in the neighborhood with a TV (the Cleveland Browns and Indians broke my Dad, and he bought a nice Philco in 1955 so he could watch the games. happy77).
Something about a heritage of people who didn't have much helps you appreciate things more than most. The problem came when some of those Depression raised parents said, "My kids aren't going to want for anything," and so many Boomers were spoiled and spoiled their kids even worse.
I have always been thankful that my parents and my husband's parents bucked the trend and made us work and appreciate what we had.
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Wonderful. I’ll tell my friend to go buy some Kohl’s jeans and then close his eyes and pretend really, really hard that they’re really the car he needs to drive to get to work.
While your at it, tell him to get better car insurance. Sounds like the plan he chose is shitty.
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Yes, it was the generations and not the old dusty bleep in Congress that mandated all the add-ons. *****rollingeyes*****
Who voted for those bleeps in Congress? Who put them there? Certainly your generation had more of a hand in putting in the Congress that first mandated airbags than did my 23 year old friend’s generation.
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Who voted for those bleeps in Congress? Who put them there? Certainly your generation had more of a hand in putting in the Congress that first mandated airbags than did my 23 year old friend’s generation.
And who taught my generation and after to become more and more liberal?
Why don't you give your friend of loan? If things are so unfair for him then certain he deserves some charity.
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While your at it, tell him to get better car insurance. Sounds like the plan he chose is shitty.
Really. A car is totaled in NY if the cost of repair exceeds 75% of the car’s value; he had standard insurance.
Replacing deployed airbags isn’t cheap. When the whole set deploys, the cost to replace them all can easily exceed 75% of the current value of the car.
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While your at it, tell him to get better car insurance. Sounds like the plan he chose is shitty.
888high58888
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And who taught my generation and after to become more and more liberal?
Why don't you give your friend of loan? If things are so unfair for him then certain he deserves some charity.
Your generation bears more blame for things becoming more expensive than the millennials do.
As for charity - I thought all it took was some hard work and budgeting to make everything right. Isn’t that the manna from heaven being peddled here?
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Really. A car is totaled in NY if the cost of repair exceeds 75% of the car’s value; he had standard insurance.
Replacing deployed airbags isn’t cheap. When the whole set deploys, the cost to replace them all can easily exceed 75% of the current value of the car.
You offer excuses, I offer solutions.
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You offer excuses, I offer solutions.
You offer nothing other than ignorant self-justifications.
Comprehensive coverage from GEICO is not “shitty insurance†so you didn’t offer anything, just ignorance.
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Really. A car is totaled in NY if the cost of repair exceeds 75% of the car’s value; he had standard insurance.
Replacing deployed airbags isn’t cheap. When the whole set deploys, the cost to replace them all can easily exceed 75% of the current value of the car.
Tell him to move to a more conservative state.
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Your generation bears more blame for things becoming more expensive than the millennials do.
As for charity - I thought all it took was some hard work and budgeting to make everything right. Isn’t that the manna from heaven being peddled here?
GenXer here: My generation didn’t force millennials into worthless degrees with which they can’t earn a living.
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You offer nothing other than ignorant self-justifications.
Comprehensive coverage from GEICO is not “shitty insurance†so you didn’t offer anything, just ignorance.
Obviously it is if he had to eat 75% of the cost.
Edit: I just reread and saw he was compensated for 75%, not had to eat 75%.
Not sure about the expensive state he’s choosing to live in, but here in Ohio one must carry full coverage until the vehicle loan is paid off. At that point, one can choose whatever insurance one wants. I’ve chosen to have coverage based on my vehicle’s worth upon paying it off. My current vehicle is only worth about $7K, so my coverage reflects that. Too bad this millennial didn’t think that through.
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GenXer here: My generation didn’t force millennials into worthless degrees with which they can’t earn a living.
Why said anything about forcing people into junk degrees? GenX certainly bears its share of the blame for the continuing increase in costs due to increased government regulations and requirements.
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You offer nothing other than ignorant self-justifications.
Comprehensive coverage from GEICO is not “shitty insurance†so you didn’t offer anything, just ignorance.
Hey, maybe he should have bought a car that wasn't worth paying the comp coverage on. Huh?
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Obviously it is if he had to eat 75% of the cost.
He didn’t eat 75% of the cost. You wwould have known that if you’d read what I posted instead of presuming what ain’t so. Insurance generally only covers 75% of the value of the car. It varies from state to state, but most states use a similar limit.
Thus, if the car is worth $10,000, but it will cost $8,000 to repair it, most insurance companies will consider the car a total loss and will pay you $7,500 for the car, and you have to hand them he title. It’s only in cases of very old cars where you can avoid having to hand over the title in order to get paid on a totaled car.
If four airbags go off, it can easily cost $6,000 or more just to replace the airbags. If the cost for repairing the rest of the damage exceeds $1,500, the car would be a write-off.
But for the airbags, it wwouldn’t have been a write-off.
You way want to read your own policy a little more carefully.
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He didn’t eat 75% of the cost. You wwould have known that if you’d read what I posted instead of presuming what ain’t so. Insurance generally only covers 75% of the value of the car. It varies from state to state, but most states use a similar limit.
Thus, if the car is worth $10,000, but it will cost $8,000 to repair it, most insurance companies will consider the car a total loss and will pay you $7,500 for the car, and you have to hand them he title. It’s only in cases of very old cars where you can avoid having to hand over the title in order to get paid on a totaled car.
If four airbags go off, it can easily cost $6,000 or more just to replace the airbags. If the cost for repairing the rest of the damage exceeds $1,500, the car would be a write-off.
But for the airbags, it wwouldn’t have been a write-off.
You way want to read your own policy a little more carefully.
And I corrected that while you were typing this rant.
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But when big screen TV's and the like are considered basic necessities, it is no wonder you start with a struggle. What percentage of their salary goes to the vehicle compared to a couple decades ago?
I would bet todays big screen TV's cost less in inflation dollars than what our parents paid for the new color tv back in the 60's.
I remember in the early 70's my dad paid $700 for a new calculator for the family business. Today that same calculator is maybe $20 if that.
@thackney
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Hey, maybe he should have bought a car that wasn't worth paying the comp coverage on. Huh?
How would that make him any better off? You cannot drive a car with the airbags deployed, and if you remove them because they deployed without replacing them, then you cannot drive the car because it’s illegal.
He would still have an undrivable car unless he put another $6,000 or so into it.
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Obviously it is if he had to eat 75% of the cost.
Edit: I just reread and saw he was compensated for 75%, not had to eat 75%.
Not sure about the expensive state he’s choosing to live in, but here in Ohio one must carry full coverage until the vehicle loan is paid off. At that point, one can choose whatever insurance one wants. I’ve chosen to have coverage based on my vehicle’s worth upon paying it off. My current vehicle is only worth about $7K, so my coverage reflects that. Too bad this millennial didn’t think that through.
Immaterial. It still costs $6,000 or more to replace airbags, and the car can’t be driven legally without them.
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How would that make him any better off? You cannot drive a car with the airbags deployed, and if you remove them because they deployed without replacing them, then you cannot drive the car because it’s illegal.
He would still have an undrivable car unless he put another $6,000 or so into it.
Or he could buy a whole second car for $3k. Jeez.
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And wages have gone up.
Not much. Accounting for inflation they are at mid 1980's levels from what I remember reading.
IN the US today we have about 35% of the population doing very well. Rest are in a slump
I drove out to Indy a few months back.. Saw a hundred factories advertising for jobs along I-70. Most 12-13.00 per hour. You cannot live today on $13.00 per hour as a single person let alone a family with kiddos.
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Immaterial. It still costs $6,000 or more to replace airbags, and the car can’t be driven legally without them.
So he takes the $7500 and buys a used car. Sheesh. It’s not rocket surgery.
Edited to add: Your excuses for this guy is why he is the way he is. It’s not his fault. It’s the insurance company’s fault, along with the auto company, as well as all the generations before him that he can’t buy a reliable fricken car and properly insure it based on its value *****rollingeyes*****
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Not much. Accounting for inflation they are at mid 1980's levels from what I remember reading.
IN the US today we have about 35% of the population doing very well. Rest are in a slump
I drove out to Indy a few months back.. Saw a hundred factories advertising for jobs along I-70. Most 12-13.00 per hour. You cannot live today on $13.00 per hour as a single person let alone a family with kiddos.
I read somewhere that since the early 90's wage "inflation" has been about 6.5%. Over the same time frame the price of new cars has increased about 10%. Certainly that is more, but not considerably.
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So he takes the $7500 and buys a used car. Sheesh. It’s not rocket surgery.
He already had a used car.
And the underlying point is that 30 years ago, this would not have been an issue, and the accident would have put him out of pocket no more than $1,000, or even less if he went to a junk yard and bought the replacement parts himself. The airbags make repairing a car substantially more expensive than it used to be, even factoring in inflation.
So yes, it is harder for a millennial at the bottom end to get a simple start in life, in part because things have become relatively more expensive.
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I would bet todays big screen TV's cost less in inflation dollars than what our parents paid for the new color tv back in the 60's.
I remember in the early 70's my dad paid $700 for a new calculator for the family business. Today that same calculator is maybe $20 if that.
@thackney
The basics of life cost less of a household income today than it did when Boomers were growing up. Food, energy, clothing, housing, etc. We just "need" more "stuff" today.
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He already had a used car.
And the underlying point is that 30 years ago, this would not have been an issue, and the accident would have put him out of pocket no more than $1,000, or even less if he went to a junk yard and bought the replacement parts himself. The airbags make repairing a car substantially more expensive than it used to be, even factoring in inflation.
So yes, it is harder for a millennial at the bottom end to get a simple start in life, in part because things have become relatively more expensive.
Again, that’s not my experience at all. I refuse to be a victim, though.
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Again, that’s not my experience at all. I refuse to be a victim, though.
Why are you throwing irrelevancies in here? My friend is far from being a victim; he’s doing quite nicely because he does work hard. But that doesn’t change the fact that the financial hit for him from what used to be a minor accident was quite substantial. Much more substantial than it was when I was growing up.
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Why are you throwing irrelevancies in here? My friend is far from being a victim; he’s doing quite nicely because he does work hard. But that doesn’t change the fact that the financial hit for him from what used to be a minor accident was quite substantial. Much more substantial than it was when I was growing up.
It is interesting to me that you offer no wisdom to this young friend on how he could have improved his situation, by buying a cheaper car for example, so that he may apply it to his life going forward. The whole situation you lay out is that he is the victim of: insurance, Gen Xers, the government, the winter, you name it. You would serve him better by pointing out that he would not be out as much money, and could afford another car, if he had spent less on the first one, instead of arguing that every aspect of the situation was out of his control.
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It is interesting to me that you offer no wisdom to this young friend on how he could have improved his situation, by buying a cheaper car for example, so that he may apply it to his life going forward. The whole situation you lay out is that he is the victim of: insurance, Gen Xers, the government, the winter, you name it. You would serve him better by pointing out that he would not be out as much money, and could afford another car, if he had spent less on the first one, instead of arguing that every aspect of the situation was out of his control.
Again, you bring in irrelevancies and points that were not brought up.
Very simple question: is it more expensive now, after factoring in inflation, to repair a used car that has been in a minor fender-bender than it was 30 years ago, before airbags became mandatory?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
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Why are you throwing irrelevancies in here? My friend is far from being a victim; he’s doing quite nicely because he does work hard. But that doesn’t change the fact that the financial hit for him from what used to be a minor accident was quite substantial. Much more substantial than it was when I was growing up.
We’ve all had hard times, and if he’s complaining about this as much as you’re complaining for him, then he’s choosing victimhood. A couple of years ago I racked up $20K in medical debt in eight months. Since it happened over two calendar years I couldn’t write anything off. Payment plans to the hospital? Yeah, they EACH (three different hospital systems) wanted $800/month payments. Thankfully we are capable of pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps and the kids got used to rice and beans. Actually, they already liked rice and beans, they just got a little cranky about the frequency.
Someday my kids will know mommy battled cancer and the reason we ate so funny and didn’t go on vacations is because it cost a lot. My hope is for my kids to use this model for the mountains they’ll have to climb in their futures. If I complain about it or make excuses, they will do the same when they face difficulties. If we’d gone into even more debt so that the kids didn’t experience abnormalities then they might do the same to feel good about themselves later on.
By modeling strong behavior, hopefully they won’t be bitching about poor auto insurance policy choices. They’ll accept that they made a mistake, take their lumps, and then learn from the mistake.
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Again, you bring in irrelevancies and points that were not brought up.
Very simple question: is it more expensive now, after factoring in inflation, to repair a used car that has been in a minor fender-bender than it was 30 years ago, before airbags became mandatory?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
Short answer, "yes" with an "if." Long answer, "no" with a "but."
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Again, you bring in irrelevancies and points that were not brought up.
Very simple question: is it more expensive now, after factoring in inflation, to repair a used car that has been in a minor fender-bender than it was 30 years ago, before airbags became mandatory?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
You know what can be done about cars that are now more expensive to repair than they were 30 years ago? Nothing. You know what can be done to protect one’s automobile? Insurance. If decent coverage isn’t affordable for you, then maybe your car isn’t either.
Again, I offer solutions and you offer excuses.
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It's simply unrealistic to not openly acknowledge that millennials are struggling more than the generations that preceded them for reasons that are not their fault. The "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps." solutions are kind of eye roll worthy considering none of you have any idea what it's like to start out in the world today. Of course they have to just deal with it, and they will, but you're kind of missing the point.
@Oceander
Mad respect for being the only person thus far to even acknowledge the struggles of young people.
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It's simply unrealistic to not openly acknowledge that millennials are struggling more than the generations that preceded them for reasons that are not their fault. The "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps." solutions are kind of eye roll worthy considering none of you have any idea what it's like to start out in the world today. Of course they have to just deal with it, and they will, but you're kind of missing the point.
@Oceander
Mad respect for being the only person thus far to even acknowledge the struggles of young people.
You poor, poor baby.
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It's simply unrealistic to not openly acknowledge that millennials are struggling more than the generations that preceded them for reasons that are not their fault. The "Pull yourself up by your bootstraps." solutions are kind of eye roll worthy considering none of you have any idea what it's like to start out in the world today. Of course they have to just deal with it, and they will, but you're kind of missing the point.
@Oceander
Mad respect for being the only person thus far to even acknowledge the struggles of young people.
Yeah, the millennial struggle is real *****rollingeyes*****
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No one forced him to buy that expensive of a car to begin with. He could have paid half what he did for that car and when it was totaled been able to afford another car. Perhaps he spent more than he should have to begin with. Shit happens.
Those less expensive cars tend to be mechanical money traps/pits. Always needing something that nickels and dimes you to death. There is usually a reason cars are traded in.
Some people need dependable transportation for work.
I also would not want my wife to be driving a less expensive car if her daily commute took her through Detroit, Philadephia or the inner city of DC
Oceander is right. My wife hit a embankement on the hwy in her 7 year old Camaro a few years back. Both from airbags inflated and they totaled the car. She had full coverage and the amount they gave her could not buy her a car that equaled her current ride. She ended up buying a new Camaro SS. Insurance co's really screw people when the cars are over 3-4 years old.
@RoosGirl
@Oceander
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You poor, poor baby.
You ignorant stuck-up prig.
That solves a lot, doesn’t it? Now we’ve a more or less mutual exchange of insults.
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Those less expensive cars tend to be mechanical money traps/pits. Always needing something that nickels and dimes you to death. There is usually a reason cars are traded in.
Some people need dependable transportation for work.
I also would not want my wife to be driving a less expensive car if her daily commute took her through Detroit, Philadephia or the inner city of DC
Oceander is right. My wife hit a embankement on the hwy in her 7 year old Camaro a few years back. Both from airbags inflated and they totaled the car. She had full coverage and the amount they gave her could not buy her a car that equaled her current ride. She ended up buyin a new a new Camaro SS
@RoosGirl
@Oceander
Exactly. And it’s not playing the victim card to simply acknowledge that some things have become significantly more expensive, which makes it incrementally harder to stay on your feet if you’re just starting out.
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You poor, poor baby.
I could probably retire in a handful of years if I really wanted to and was willing to make some quality of life sacrifices. I'm not complaining about my own situation. I've done well for myself so far, but not everybody is as lucky as me.
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Those less expensive cars tend to be mechanical money traps/pits. Always needing something that nickels and dimes you to death. There is usually a reason cars are traded in.
Some people need dependable transportation for work.
I also would not want my wife to be driving a less expensive car if her daily commute took her through Detroit, Philadephia or the inner city of DC
Oceander is right. My wife hit a embankement on the hwy in her 7 year old Camaro a few years back. Both from airbags inflated and they totaled the car. She had full coverage and the amount they gave her could not buy her a car that equaled her current ride. She ended up buyin a new a new Camaro SS
@RoosGirl
@Oceander
We're all talking past each other. I don't think anyone disagrees that cars are more expensive now than they used to be. My point has been that the Millennial friend purchased unwisely. Yes, older cars have more cost than new cars on general repairs, but you can mitigate that by:
1) knowing what you're buying
2) learning to do the work yourself
3) understanding that not all things are necessary to repair; a rear window going up and down perhaps, or turn signals for our Northern friends.
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You ignorant stuck-up prig.
That solves a lot, doesn’t it? Now we’ve a more or less mutual exchange of insults.
That's nice of you to take personally something I said to Dexter. So sweet.
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I could probably retire in a handful of years if I really wanted to and was willing to make some quality of life sacrifices. I'm not complaining about my own situation. I've done well for myself so far, but not everybody is as lucky as me.
Oh, you were just lucky? You didn't work hard for it huh? Didn't make any quality of life sacrifices that you chose to make that others could choose just like you did and perhaps be in the same situation? It was just dumb luck that you're in the position you are?
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Exactly. And it’s not playing the victim card to simply acknowledge that some things have become significantly more expensive, which makes it incrementally harder to stay on your feet if you’re just starting out.
6.5% increase in wages versus 10% increase in price of cars. That is not "significant".
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We're all talking past each other. I don't think anyone disagrees that cars are more expensive now than they used to be. My point has been that the Millennial friend purchased unwisely. Yes, older cars have more cost than new cars on general repairs, but you can mitigate that by:
1) knowing what you're buying
2) learning to do the work yourself
3) understanding that not all things are necessary to repair; a rear window going up and down perhaps, or turn signals for our Northern friends.
Exactly. May I add that if car ownership is too difficult then this millennial has more problems than he thought.
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Exactly. May I add that if car ownership is too difficult then this millennial has more problems than he thought.
I still have my first brand new car I bought. It's a 1999. I know I have paid less in repairs over the almost 20 years than I would have buying 3 new cars that most people would have bought in the same amount of time, even used ones.
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I could probably retire in a handful of years if I really wanted to and was willing to make some quality of life sacrifices. I'm not complaining about my own situation. I've done well for myself so far, but not everybody is as lucky as me.
That’s nice that your life, livelihood, and future are based on luck. Mine is based on hard work and sacrifice. Many unlucky things have happened to me and I’ve chosen to pull up my bootstraps and overcome those situations. I know you posted that pulling up ones bootstraps is silly, but the reality is that it works. Complaining about the results of ones own choices does not work.
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We're all talking past each other. I don't think anyone disagrees that cars are more expensive now than they used to be. My point has been that the Millennial friend purchased unwisely. Yes, older cars have more cost than new cars on general repairs, but you can mitigate that by:
1) knowing what you're buying
2) learning to do the work yourself
3) understanding that not all things are necessary to repair; a rear window going up and down perhaps, or turn signals for our Northern friends.
Millennial friend bought a used car, well within his budget. So he didn’t choose unwisely there.
Millennial friend knew the car he was buying, and it was mechanically sound. So he didn’t choose unwisely there.
Millennial friend got caught in a snowstorm on his way to work - he had, and has, a good job, so he chose wisely there, too - and had a weather-related accident. Weather-related accidents have been around as long as cars have been around, so his choice was no more less wise than the choices made by earlier generations.
Millennial friend’s otherwise mechanically sound car was treated as a total because the cost to replace the airbags, plus the costs to repair the other damage, exceeded 75% of the cars value, in line with how most insurance companies work.
That meant that millennial friend could either take the payout, and turn in the car, ending up with no car, or he could have kept the car and either ended up with an undrivable car, or gone out of pocket $6,000 to replace the airbags.
It is almost impossible to find an inexpensive, reliable used car that does not have airbags, and the cost to replace airbags does not decrease as the car ages. Millennial friend’s choice was not unwise here because he had no choice.
The sine qua non here is the almost universal presence of airbags in cars, and the high expense of replacing them if they go off.
That was not an issue back in the day when most of the rest of us grew up. My first car was a 1971 Plymouth Scamp, and when I got into my first weather-related accident, it cost me less than $100 and an afternoon at the junk yard swapping fenders to get it roadworthy again. I didn’t have to also pay several thousand dollars to replace airbags. If airbags had been around at the time, I would have been SOL because I could not have paid to replace them, even if I did the work myself.
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Oh, you were just lucky? You didn't work hard for it huh? Didn't make any quality of life sacrifices that you chose to make that others could choose just like you did and perhaps be in the same situation? It was just dumb luck that you're in the position you are?
I don't want to sound like an elitist but you're making it hard. I think I'm very lucky to be who I am. A lot of people are not very smart, and some people simply had less opportunities. It's not fair for me to judge others based on my own experiences in the world. Young people are struggling a lot, and while they definitely could take steps to mitigate that, the point remains that things are simply harder now. More people are finding it more and more difficult to succeed.
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That’s nice that your life, livelihood, and future are based on luck. Mine is based on hard work and sacrifice. Many unlucky things have happened to me and I’ve chosen to pull up my bootstraps and overcome those situations. I know you posted that pulling up ones bootstraps is silly, but the reality is that it works. Complaining about the results of ones own choices does not work.
I don’t think he was saying that what he has he got solely by luck. I think he used it more in the sense that so far his hard work has been up to the challenge and he hasn’t been handed a set back that was more than he could handle.
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I don't want to sound like an elitist but you're making it hard. A lot of people are not very smart, and some people simply had less opportunities. It's not fair for me to judge others based on my own experiences in the world. Young people are struggling a lot, and while they definitely could take steps to mitigate that, the point remains that things are simply harder now. More people are finding it more and more difficult to succeed.
So you are an elitist...BFD, Own it.
It sure was big of you to come slum it at TBR today.
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I still have my first brand new car I bought. It's a 1999. I know I have paid less in repairs over the almost 20 years than I would have buying 3 new cars that most people would have bought in the same amount of time, even used ones.
Mine is 12 and I’d like to get 15 years out of it. I’m researching SUVs. I will buy used, probably two years old, and then probably hand it down to my 10 year old when he turns 16. Now that I think about my baby turning 16 8888crybaby
Anyway, I’m rooted in reality so I know that modern vehicles are more expensive to repair. Seriously, how is anybody surprised by this? Anyway, that’s why I research and decide how much to spend on something.
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Millennial friend bought a used car, well within his budget. So he didn’t choose unwisely there.
Millennial friend knew the car he was buying, and it was mechanically sound. So he didn’t choose unwisely there.
Millennial friend got caught in a snowstorm on his way to work - he had, and has, a good job, so he chose wisely there, too - and had a weather-related accident. Weather-related accidents have been around as long as cars have been around, so his choice was no more less wise than the choices made by earlier generations.
Millennial friend’s otherwise mechanically sound car was treated as a total because the cost to replace the airbags, plus the costs to repair the other damage, exceeded 75% of the cars value, in line with how most insurance companies work.
That meant that millennial friend could either take the payout, and turn in the car, ending up with no car, or he could have kept the car and either ended up with an undrivable car, or gone out of pocket $6,000 to replace the airbags.
It is almost impossible to find an inexpensive, reliable used car that does not have airbags, and the cost to replace airbags does not decrease as the car ages. Millennial friend’s choice was not unwise here because he had no choice.
The sine qua non here is the almost universal presence of airbags in cars, and the high expense of replacing them if they go off.
That was not an issue back in the day when most of the rest of us grew up. My first car was a 1971 Plymouth Scamp, and when I got into my first weather-related accident, it cost me less than $100 and an afternoon at the junk yard swapping fenders to get it roadworthy again. I didn’t have to also pay several thousand dollars to replace airbags. If airbags had been around at the time, I would have been SOL because I could not have paid to replace them, even if I did the work myself.
You're still stuck on thinking that the only solution he had was to pay for the airbag replacement. There is also the alternative a buying another car within the budge of the payout he got from the insurance. Nope, might not be as nice as the one he totaled, but like I said, shit happens. Not that it doesn't suck, it does.
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You're still stuck on thinking that the only solution he had was to pay for the airbag replacement. There is also the alternative a buying another car within the budge of the payout he got from the insurance. Nope, might not be as nice as the one he totaled, but like I said, shit happens. Not that it doesn't suck, it does.
Or choose to pay a higher insurance premium for full coverage.
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Mine is 12 and I’d like to get 15 years out of it. I’m researching SUVs. I will buy used, probably two years old, and then probably hand it down to my 10 year old when he turns 16. Now that I think about my baby turning 16 8888crybaby
Anyway, I’m rooted in reality so I know that modern vehicles are more expensive to repair. Seriously, how is anybody surprised by this? Anyway, that’s why I research and decide how much to spend on something.
It’s not a question of not researching it or being surprised by it. It is a question of a non-negotiable expense being built into cars that will always be sprung if the car is in an accident that is enough to deploy the airbags, which isn’t very hard to do.
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So you are an elitist...BFD, Own it.
It sure was big of you to come slum it at TBR today.
Whatever dude. You sound insecure right now.
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I don't want to sound like an elitist but you're making it hard. I think I'm very lucky to be who I am. A lot of people are not very smart, and some people simply had less opportunities. It's not fair for me to judge others based on my own experiences in the world. Young people are struggling a lot, and while they definitely could take steps to mitigate that, the point remains that things are simply harder now. More people are finding it more and more difficult to succeed.
Hey Dex, are you not old enough to have figured out that people are different? I know they stopped allowing you kids to believe that in public school, but it's true. People are different, they have different strengths and talents. Some people are smart, some people are creative, some people are beautiful, some people have amazing talent, some people are dumb. There's nothing wrong with you using your strengths and talents in a way that benefits you.
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Whatever dude. You sound insecure right now.
*****rollingeyes*****
Trolling much? FYI, that was trolling.
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You're still stuck on thinking that the only solution he had was to pay for the airbag replacement. There is also the alternative a buying another car within the budge of the payout he got from the insurance. Nope, might not be as nice as the one he totaled, but like I said, shit happens. Not that it doesn't suck, it does.
No, I’m pointing out that this would not have been an issue back in the golden oldies that everyone here is comparing the poor pitiful millenials to.
Every car, new or used, comes with a potential $6,000 or more time bomb built into it that goes off if the car is in a minor fence bender, unless the car happens to be very old.
That was not the case when most of us were growing up. It is a relevant difference that puts truth into what @Dexter originally posted.
I don’t know why it’s so hard for you to accept that maybe things aren’t quite as simple as they were when you grew up, and that this can knock people back nowadays who will hornet have been knocked back if they had grown up with you.
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Hey Dex, are you not old enough to have figured out that people are different? I know they stopped allowing you kids to believe that in public school, but it's true. People are different, they have different strengths and talents. Some people are smart, some people are creative, some people are beautiful, some people have amazing talent, some people are dumb. There's nothing wrong with you using your strengths and talents in a way that benefits you.
A LOT of people lack the ability to make intelligent financial decisions, including your generation. Luckily for your generation there was a LOT more wiggle room, so a wider variety of people were able to become financially successful. Young people aren't struggling because they are lazy good for nothings. They're struggling because shit is a lot harder than it was when you were 18.
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I had to walk uphill both ways in the snow to work. 10 miles each way. No, wait....I did have to walk to work, sometimes there was snow, it was about a mile, but I made it every day and on time. Ah, the good old days. Car? Who could afford a car?
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*****rollingeyes*****
Trolling much? FYI, that was trolling.
Okay, my bad. I'll take that one. What's the score now when it comes to trolling between the two of us? I'm pretty sure you're still way in the lead. You're very rude to me even though I've put effort into being cool to you despite your hostility.
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Okay, my bad. I'll take that one. What's the score now when it comes to trolling between the two of us? I'm pretty sure you're still way in the lead. You're very rude to me even though I've put effort into being cool to you despite your hostility.
I do have to admit that you are putting a lot of effort into being civil in the face of provocation. Probably more effort than I can muster.
Hat’s off.
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It’s not a question of not researching it or being surprised by it. It is a question of a non-negotiable expense being built into cars that will always be sprung if the car is in an accident that is enough to deploy the airbags, which isn’t very hard to do.
Obviously carring is too hard. Don’t car.
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Obviously carring is too hard. Don’t car.
Troll.
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Okay, my bad. I'll take that one. What's the score now when it comes to trolling between the two of us? I'm pretty sure you're still way in the lead. You're very rude to me even though I've put effort into being cool to you despite your hostility.
I get rude with people who are snarky to me or my friends (the both of them), and only seem to know the leftist talking points. I also don't care for SJWs. I'm in the lead? :cool:
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Troll.
I’ve offered multiple solutions to your millennial friend’s problem, and all you’ve done is told me I’m wrong without offering why or a solution of your own. I’m not the troll here.
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It is harder to start out in life today.
My first job was a field rep for a Fortune 500 financial firm in 1984.
$26k starting pay (lot of money in 1984) + commission what my brokers did. Full 100% health insurance, dental, life, disability, pension plan and guess what? a brand new company car every 8-10 months and the co I worked for paid 100% of insurance, maintenace, gas, etc. on the car.
I had to pay $25 a month out of my pay for personal use-it was my only car.
I had an expense account for clients I could never use entirely and my boss told me to take out my gf and use it up-use it or lose it.
I am still in the same business and now I have field reps call on me. No company cars-they get a stipend for fuel for their personal car. Health insurance is crappy with deductibles and their starting pay is only in the low $30k level + comm on what brokers do is a quarter of what I was paid
What I get paid today by the companies I rep for is a quarter of what I was paid 30 years ago.
Our country is slowy going down the toilet in terms of prosperity.
We are becoming a Amazon economy a few people at the top and gov't workers doing well. As I said 35% of people are doing well, rest are treading water.
No wonder the country is turning blue.
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I get rude with people who are snarky to me or my friends (the both of them), and only seem to know the leftist talking points. I also don't care for SJWs. I'm in the lead? :cool:
I have made a conscious effort to be polite to you. I'm hardly a social justice warrior. I just value meaningful discourse. I'm not interested in us being nasty to each other. I even kind of like you when you're not being rude to me. You gain nothing by creating enemies.
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I’ve offered multiple solutions to your millennial friend’s problem, and all you’ve done is told me I’m wrong without offering why or a solution of your own. I’m not the troll here.
You didn’t offer solutions. You offered irrelevancies. Nothing you posted changes the simple fact that an accident that back in the day would not have totaled a car, and which could be repaired for less than $100, now costs several thousands of dollars and, if not paid, leaves one with an unusable car.
There are no two ways around that fact. You can buy as cheap a car as you want, even a $500 Craigslist special, and you can go with collision only insurance, but none of that changes the fact that if the airbags go off, you either have no car, or you have several thousands of dollars of additional expense.
All of which means that the myth of the $500 car is just that, a myth. Because you will have to set aside at least that much again to replace the car if the airbags go off. Or if any of the other required gadgets fails and requires replacement.
In short, it is significantly more expensive - over and above inflation - to own a car today, and that is an expense that most of us cannot avoid if we want to get to work on time.
So stop trolling.
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Our country is slowy going down the toilet in terms of prosperity.
We are becoming a Amazon economy a few people at the top and gov't workers doing well. As I said 35% of people are doing well, rest are treading water.
No wonder the country is turning blue.
:thumbsup:
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Millennial friend bought a used car, well within his budget. So he didn’t choose unwisely there.
Millennial friend knew the car he was buying, and it was mechanically sound. So he didn’t choose unwisely there.
Millennial friend got caught in a snowstorm on his way to work - he had, and has, a good job, so he chose wisely there, too - and had a weather-related accident. Weather-related accidents have been around as long as cars have been around, so his choice was no more less wise than the choices made by earlier generations.
Millennial friend’s otherwise mechanically sound car was treated as a total because the cost to replace the airbags, plus the costs to repair the other damage, exceeded 75% of the cars value, in line with how most insurance companies work.
That meant that millennial friend could either take the payout, and turn in the car, ending up with no car, or he could have kept the car and either ended up with an undrivable car, or gone out of pocket $6,000 to replace the airbags.
It is almost impossible to find an inexpensive, reliable used car that does not have airbags, and the cost to replace airbags does not decrease as the car ages. Millennial friend’s choice was not unwise here because he had no choice.
The sine qua non here is the almost universal presence of airbags in cars, and the high expense of replacing them if they go off.
That was not an issue back in the day when most of the rest of us grew up. My first car was a 1971 Plymouth Scamp, and when I got into my first weather-related accident, it cost me less than $100 and an afternoon at the junk yard swapping fenders to get it roadworthy again. I didn’t have to also pay several thousand dollars to replace airbags. If airbags had been around at the time, I would have been SOL because I could not have paid to replace them, even if I did the work myself.
Does this millennial have a smart phone with an expensive data package? Video game box? Big screen TV? Eat out often? Music and video monthly subscriptions? Many millennial's have their priorities mixed up. Not saying the one you're talking about does, I simply don't know. But I see lots of "poor" kids with the latest iPhones and the services that go with it along with other toys. The insurance, utilities, car, rent and other items should come before them. And without those expenses their monthly budgets would look much better. Priorities.
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Does this millennial have a smart phone with an expensive data package? Video game box? Big screen TV? Eat out often? Music and video monthly subscriptions? Many millennial's have their priorities mixed up. Not saying the one you're talking about does, I simply don't know. But I see lots of "poor" kids with the latest iPhones and the services that go with it along with other toys. The insurance, utilities, car, rent and other items should come before them. And without those expenses their monthly budgets would look much better. Priorities.
Other generations were wasteful in their own way. There was a lot more wiggle room back then though. You didn't have to be so strategic just to stay above water comfortably.
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You didn’t offer solutions. You offered irrelevancies. Nothing you posted changes the simple fact that an accident that back in the day would not have totaled a car, and which could be repaired for less than $100, now costs several thousands of dollars and, if not paid, leaves one with an unusable car.
There are no two ways around that fact. You can buy as cheap a car as you want, even a $500 Craigslist special, and you can go with collision only insurance, but none of that changes the fact that if the airbags go off, you either have no car, or you have several thousands of dollars of additional expense.
All of which means that the myth of the $500 car is just that, a myth. Because you will have to set aside at least that much again to replace the car if the airbags go off. Or if any of the other required gadgets fails and requires replacement.
In short, it is significantly more expensive - over and above inflation - to own a car today, and that is an expense that most of us cannot avoid if we want to get to work on time.
So stop trolling.
Okay then. You be you.
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Does this millennial have a smart phone with an expensive data package? Video game box? Big screen TV? Eat out often? Music and video monthly subscriptions? Many millennial's have their priorities mixed up. Not saying the one you're talking about does, I simply don't know. But I see lots of "poor" kids with the latest iPhones and the services that go with it along with other toys. The insurance, utilities, car, rent and other items should come before them. And without those expenses their monthly budgets would look much better. Priorities.
He works for a NASA contractor and his toys are well within his budget. I think he still has his phone on his family’s plan because it’s cheaper.
None of that changes the fact that 30 years ago, the fender bender that cost him his car would have been a nothing burger, when most of the people here were just starting out. I had one myself, and it only cost me less than $100 to fix it.
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Also it's only getting worse for young people. They are the future, and the future looks grim. We're not going to be the greatest country on Earth for much longer. Young people desperately need some kind of assistance if America is to continue leading the world.
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Okay then. You be you.
I am. Your refusal to countenance some basic facts ill-serves you. Nobody is asking you for solutions or pity, or charity, but simply recognition that times have changed.
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Also it's only getting worse for young people. They are the future, and the future looks grim. We're not going to be the greatest country on Earth for much longer. Young people desperately need some kind of assistance if America is to continue leading the world.
I wouldn’t go quite that far.
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I wouldn’t go quite that far.
I hope I'm wrong. I want America to stay healthy and strong, but the ones who will lead the way into the future are struggling.
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It is harder to start out in life today.
My first job was a field rep for a Fortune 500 financial firm in 1984.
$26k starting pay (lot of money in 1984) + commission what my brokers did. Full 100% health insurance, dental, life, disability, pension plan and guess what? a brand new company car every 8-10 months and the co I worked for paid 100% of insurance, maintenace, gas, etc. on the car.
I had to pay $25 a month out of my pay for personal use-it was my only car.
I had an expense account for clients I could never use entirely and my boss told me to take out my gf and use it up-use it or lose it.
I am still in the same business and now I have field reps call on me. No company cars-they get a stipend for fuel for their personal car. Health insurance is crappy with deductibles and their starting pay is only in the low $30k level + comm on what brokers do is a quarter of what I was paid
What I get paid today by the companies I rep for is a quarter of what I was paid 30 years ago.
Our country is slowy going down the toilet in terms of prosperity.
We are becoming a Amazon economy a few people at the top and gov't workers doing well. As I said 35% of people are doing well, rest are treading water.
No wonder the country is turning blue.
It is their and other peoples votes that are destroying things. They vote for more government spending. More debt. More "free" programs. Higher minimum wage increasing costs and reducing available jobs. More taxes on somebody else. Healthcare that someone else pays for. The money isn't free, whether borrowed, printed or taxed. It's a viscous circle that feeds on itself until everything is consumed. Either break the self feeding feedback loop swirling around or go down the drain.
I really can't feel sorry for those who vote for their own demise due to greed. It is those they take with them that I feel for.
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I hope I'm wrong. I want America to stay healthy and strong, but the ones who will lead the way into the future are struggling.
Yeah, well, clean your room, stand up straight and get on with it.
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Other generations were wasteful in their own way. There was a lot more wiggle room back then though. You didn't have to be so strategic just to stay above water comfortably.
Not the poor. The poor really were poor. And they made due and didn't complain much about it. It was normal. About the only thing to splurge on was eating out. No cable TV. Only the basics. Power and landline phone. A party line on the phone saved money - which we had. No A/C and a fireplace for heat. Most people today in this country have no idea what "poor" is.
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Other generations were wasteful in their own way. There was a lot more wiggle room back then though. You didn't have to be so strategic just to stay above water comfortably.
My parents’ mortgage rate was nearly 10%. Mine is 2.74%. They had one income, I have two. They had two cars, I have two cars. We can argue about it all night long, but the bottom line is what people choose to earn, choose to spend, and choose to save. For example, on a few square feet I grow enough garlic, tomatoes, and onions that I no longer have to purchase them from the store. That includes canned tomatoes as well as fresh, and I’m in zone 6b. I grow these things on a space the equivalent of a balcony. I choose not to spend money on these things, and several other things that I grow. Now obviously this isn’t for everybody, but it is just one example of what can choose not to spend money on. Soda, Starbucks, data plans, Microsoft Gold, Netflix, etc. are all options not requirements.
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My parents’ mortgage rate was nearly 10%. Mine is 2.74%. They had one income, I have two. They had two cars, I have two cars. We can argue about it all night long, but the bottom line is what people choose to earn, choose to spend, and choose to save. For example, on a few square feet I grow enough garlic, tomatoes, and onions that I no longer have to purchase them from the store. That includes canned tomatoes as well as fresh, and I’m in zone 6b. I grow these things on a space the equivalent of a balcony. I choose not to spend money on these things, and several other things that I grow. Now obviously this isn’t for everybody, but it is just one example of what can choose not to spend money on. Soda, Starbucks, data plans, Microsoft Gold, Netflix, etc. are all options not requirements.
If only everybody had as much intelligence and common sense as you do. Not having all of those distractions probably made it a lot easier to focus on what matters as well. These are your children and your grandchildren. They're not weak people. The world has changed and they are struggling to deal with it. Clearly a lot of them are lost and confused. They need some kind of help or guidance. I don't know what the answer is.
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I hope I'm wrong. I want America to stay healthy and strong, but the ones who will lead the way into the future are struggling.
If they are struggling then one of two things will happen:
1. The struggle will make them stronger and help shape them into competent leaders that understand life is not cupcakes and rainbows. Life is hard work, but damn if it’s not worth it.
2. They will give up the struggle and will therefore yeild leadership positions to those in example #1.
Either way is a blessing.
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If only everybody had as much intelligence and common sense as you do. Not having all of those distractions probably made it a lot easier to focus on what matters as well. These are your children and your grandchildren. They're not weak people. The world has changed and they are struggling to deal with it. Clearly a lot of them are lost and confused. They need some kind of help or guidance. I don't know what the answer is.
I’ve already posted how I’m leading by example for my kids. Go back and read my posts.
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If only everybody had as much intelligence and common sense as you do. Not having all of those distractions probably made it a lot easier to focus on what matters as well. These are your children and your grandchildren. They're not weak people. The world has changed and they are struggling to deal with it. Clearly a lot of them are lost and confused. They need some kind of help or guidance. I don't know what the answer is.
I’ve already posted a solution to that as well: Quit helping and guiding. Let them fall on their asses and then pull themselves back up.
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He works for a NASA contractor and his toys are well within his budget. I think he still has his phone on his family’s plan because it’s cheaper.
None of that changes the fact that 30 years ago, the fender bender that cost him his car would have been a nothing burger, when most of the people here were just starting out. I had one myself, and it only cost me less than $100 to fix it.
You can buy a decent used car for a couple of grand these days. Electronics and clothes are far cheaper today than they were then. Cars are more expensive because the cars are FAR nicer and safer than they were 35 years ago.
All that printed money over the last 10 or so years have taken a big bite out of peoples spending power due to inflation. It has driven housing and food through the roof. All that government spending has real consequences long term and there's no end in sight for that stupidity.
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He works for a NASA contractor and his toys are well within his budget. I think he still has his phone on his family’s plan because it’s cheaper.
None of that changes the fact that 30 years ago, the fender bender that cost him his car would have been a nothing burger, when most of the people here were just starting out. I had one myself, and it only cost me less than $100 to fix it.
Tell him to call Uber.
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You can buy a decent used car for a couple of grand these days.
LMA**OFF No you can't.
@DB
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LMA**OFF No you can't.
@DB
2010 Honda Element for $2500
https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/d/2010-honda-elementprice/6737861024.html
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2010 Honda Element for $2500
https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/d/2010-honda-elementprice/6737861024.html
312,000 miles. It's a few miles away from a $4000+ engine or tranny replacement. If it was already done it would have been noted in the ad. It's worn out.
@RoosGirl
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2010 Honda Element for $2500
https://jacksonville.craigslist.org/cto/d/2010-honda-elementprice/6737861024.html
We keep giving them solutions and they keep telling us we’re wrong. We give them examples and they repeat their negativity. Thank God The Founders were made of stronger stuff, and thank God people like you exist to keep the lights on in this nation.
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312,000 miles. It's a few miles away from a $4000+ engine or tranny replacement. If it was already done it would have been noted in the ad. It's worn out.
@RoosGirl
Fine.
2011 Nissan Altima
https://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/cto/d/nissan-altima-2011-hybrid/6743632950.html
There are more, and I'm sure a diligent search could find an acceptable one.
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LMA**OFF No you can't.
@DB
Yes, you can. Get a manual transmission w/o all the electric/electronic gadgets that fail. It takes some shopping around - hence effort - but you can. Especially one that has cosmetic damage. But a basic car to get you from point A to point B isn't enough for some people.
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We keep giving them solutions and they keep telling us we’re wrong. We give them examples and they repeat their negativity. Thank God The Founders were made of stronger stuff, and thank God people like you exist to keep the lights on in this nation.
Bunch of Can't Dos. Maybe we should let those Mexi-cans in. :laugh:
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If only everybody had as much intelligence and common sense as you do. Not having all of those distractions probably made it a lot easier to focus on what matters as well. These are your children and your grandchildren. They're not weak people. The world has changed and they are struggling to deal with it. Clearly a lot of them are lost and confused. They need some kind of help or guidance. I don't know what the answer is.
Much of it is simply "growing up". It takes work, experiences both good and bad to learn how to survive. We've delayed growing up because our kids didn't have to.
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Tell him to call Uber.
Feck you, too.
You sure have a lot of emotional investment in making yourself feel superior to millenials. Why?
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Bunch of Can't Dos. Maybe we should let those Mexi-cans in. :laugh:
888high58888
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Feck you @RoosGirl , you prig. Yep, you’ve been verbally assaulted with these, umm, words, for the audacity of proving some whiny beta male wrong multiple times. You deserve a trophy 🏆, but for owning them not participation.
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Feck you @RoosGirl , you prig. Yep, you’ve been verbally assaulted with these, umm, words, for the audacity of proving some whiny beta male wrong multiple times. You deserve a trophy 🏆, but for owning them not participation.
Proving me wrong how? That vehicle repair expenses aren’t materially higher than they used to be because expensive government-mandated components are included now that weren’t included then?
Really? Which point did she prove wrong? That contrary to my statements, airbags were in fact always in cars, ever since the Model T? That contrary to my statements it doesn’t cost more than about $100 or so to replace a deployed airbag?
Exactly which of my statements did she prove wrong?
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You sure have a lot of emotional investment in making yourself feel superior to millenials. Why?
The idea that the only difference between current young people and former young people is a willingness to work hard is kind of vital to the way some people see the world. It's uncomfortable to face young people and admit they got screwed by the generations that preceded them.
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All that printed money over the last 10 or so years have taken a big bite out of peoples spending power due to inflation. It has driven housing and food through the roof. All that government spending has real consequences long term and there's no end in sight for that stupidity.
This
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Proving me wrong how? That vehicle repair expenses aren’t materially higher than they used to be because expensive government-mandated components are included now that weren’t included then?
Really? Which point did she prove wrong? That contrary to my statements, airbags were in fact always in cars, ever since the Model T? That contrary to my statements it doesn’t cost more than about $100 or so to replace a deployed airbag?
Exactly which of my statements did she prove wrong?
Omg. You’re a loony.
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Omg. You’re a loony.
And you’re clearly an idiot. Wow. Now that we’ve had a mutual exchange of insults, please point out which of my statements was proven wrong.
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Feck you, too.
You sure have a lot of emotional investment in making yourself feel superior to millenials. Why?
I thought Millenials loved Uber. I think it's a pretty enterprising endeavor. Apparently you old farts have something against the company. Why?
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The idea that the only difference between current young people and former young people is a willingness to work hard is kind of vital to the way some people see the world. It's uncomfortable to face young people and admit they got screwed by the generations that preceded them.
Every generation has been screwed over by the previous generation. No generation is truly unique. You are not special. I used to tell my junior American lit classes: Shakespeare knocked up his girlfriend, Sears sold heroine, and Elvis couldn’t be shown on TV from the waist down. Nothing is new. Let me repeat: NOTHING IS NEW. Every gen has their burdens to bear, either self inflicted or thrust upon them. Millennials are no different, they just choose victim status as their means of dealing with it. It makes it easier to justify the prescription drugs, the lifelong college student status, and the adult coloring books that have popped up in the grocery checkout.
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And you’re clearly an idiot. Wow. Now that we’ve had a mutual exchange of insults, please point out which of my statements was proven wrong.
I’m not going to retype everything when it’s much simpler for you to go back and reread.
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I thought Millenials loved Uber. I think it's a pretty enterprising endeavor. Apparently you old farts have something against the company. Why?
I’m young enough to know a blow-off in context when I see one.
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I thought Millenials loved Uber. I think it's a pretty enterprising endeavor. Apparently you old farts have something against the company. Why?
He hates new cars because they cost too much to fix, but hates Uber for some other random reason. That’s a pretty vicious circle.
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He hates new cars because they cost too much to fix, but hates Uber for some other random reason. That’s a pretty vicious circle.
/snicker
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Every generation loves to criticize the next. Are millennials soft? Yeah, I think so. Every generation likes to blame the previous one for its shortcomings. Parents have been weak or totally absent for a long time ... no question about that. But something else is happening now. Groups moving to the US from third world countries are simply less equipped to deal with life in the west. And so you have certain segments of millennials who for the most part are doing OK (asians and whites with marketable skills) despite the price distortions in real estate and higher education. Then you have a larger group of people who "missed out" and are spiraling into debt slavery and government dependency. It's a condition that will worsen until we have the courage to deal with the cause.
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/snicker
You are back to doing that /snicker shit again. Damn dude you are a dumb ass
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Also it's only getting worse for young people. They are the future, and the future looks grim. We're not going to be the greatest country on Earth for much longer. Young people desperately need some kind of assistance if America is to continue leading the world.
Don't tell my 22-1/2 year old niece. She just bought a house and is progressing nicely up the ladder at a major grocery chain in the northeast, even though her college degree (which she earned by age 20) wasn't even in the same field as her current occupation. She's pretty darn optimistic about her future, but she's practical, hard-working and doesn't waste her money - so she must be unique among all those "grim" young people.
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I guess the kids coming out of high school and knowing they were going to be drafted to Vietnam had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today. Or the kids coming out of high school in the 70s during that recession and gas shortages and crazy high interest rates had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today. Or the kids coming out of high school in the 40s during the war and knowing they were going to be drafted and sent to Europe or Africa had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today.
I mean, my grandmother, who had a 2 year old when my grandfather was drafted for WWII, who did not even graduate from high school and had to share an apartment with her sister, whose husband had also been drafted, and had to hand wash clothes and diapers, they had it so much easier than the 20somethings of today that have cell phones and cable tv and umm...parents who will let them move back in with them.
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You are back to doing that /snicker shit again. Damn dude you are a dumb ass
And you’re a horse’s derrière. Does exchanging insults make you feel better?
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I’m young enough to know a blow-off in context when I see one.
How about a little from Column A and a little from Column B.
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You're so right, Roos. The people of my parents' generation and your grandparents' generation - born shortly before the beginning of the Great Depression, teens when the US entered WWII - led the life of Riley compared to the average 20-something of today.
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Don't tell my 22-1/2 year old niece. She just bought a house and is progressing nicely up the ladder at a major grocery chain in the northeast, even though her college degree (which she earned by age 20) wasn't even in the same field as her current occupation. She's pretty darn optimistic about her future, but she's practical, hard-working and doesn't waste her money - so she must be unique among all those "grim" young people.
You're rightfully extremely proud of her. She found that success despite the fact that things are tough right now. Anecdotes don't change reality, though.
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I guess the kids coming out of high school and knowing they were going to be drafted to Vietnam had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today. Or the kids coming out of high school in the 70s during that recession and gas shortages and crazy high interest rates had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today. Or the kids coming out of high school in the 40s during the war and knowing they were going to be drafted and sent to Europe or Africa had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today.
I mean, my grandmother, who had a 2 year old when my grandfather was drafted for WWII, who did not even graduate from high school and had to share an apartment with her sister, whose husband had also been drafted, and had to hand wash clothes and diapers, they had it so much easier than the 20somethings of today that have cell phones and cable tv and umm...parents who will let them move back in with them.
Yep. Here I am with all my privilege as a first gen college grad. My parents were first gen high school grads. All four of my grandparents had 8th grade educations. My maternal grandparents’ first home was a chicken coop grandpa turned into a shack for humans. My paternal grandfather lost his leg in his teens in an industrial accident. He went back to work, by the way, because his dad had died and as the oldest he was the breadwinner.
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You're so right, Roos. The people of my parents' generation and your grandparents' generation - born shortly before the beginning of the Great Depression, teens when the US entered WWII - led the life of Riley compared to the average 20-something of today.
We shouldn't be regressing. This is America and it's the year 2018. Our young people should have more opportunity for success than any other young people in the world, but they don't.
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Look how good these guys have it compared to millennials.
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Look how good these guys have it compared to millennials.
There are millennials dying overseas as we speak. Either way millennials have their own unique problems, and those problems being different doesn't make them insignificant. They are struggling and older Americans should give a damn.
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We shouldn't be regressing. This is America and it's the year 2018. Our young people should have more opportunity for success than any other young people in the world, but they don't.
My grandmothers didn’t have the opportunity for a college education; my daughters do. My son, on the high functioning end of the spectrum, would be kicked out of school in my grandparents’ day, yet here he is THRIVING in a private Catholic school. If you consider central air and nat gas heat, both controlled from my iPhone, regression, then I got a bridge to sell you.
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I guess the kids coming out of high school and knowing they were going to be drafted to Vietnam had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today. Or the kids coming out of high school in the 70s during that recession and gas shortages and crazy high interest rates had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today. Or the kids coming out of high school in the 40s during the war and knowing they were going to be drafted and sent to Europe or Africa had it a lot easier than the hard working kids of today.
I mean, my grandmother, who had a 2 year old when my grandfather was drafted for WWII, who did not even graduate from high school and had to share an apartment with her sister, whose husband had also been drafted, and had to hand wash clothes and diapers, they had it so much easier than the 20somethings of today that have cell phones and cable tv and umm...parents who will let them move back in with them.
Funny you missed the 80s, 90s, and naughts, which are the more relevant time periods for comparison in terms of why more kids might be going back home.
Guess it was mighty hard in the 80s, what with that big hair and shoulder pads.
Maybe your grannie should save the drama and take an Uber.
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You're rightfully extremely proud of her. She found that success despite the fact that things are tough right now. Anecdotes don't change reality, though.
Listen, you need to shake off what your parents and schools taught you about social equivalence. Stop feeling guilty for succeeding and understand that plenty in your generation could make something of themselves if they chose to. If you still feel guilt and want to help others, go find a way to help people yourself and stop waiting around for the government or someone else to do it.
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There are millennials dying overseas as we speak. Either way millennials have their own unique problems, and those problems being different doesn't make them insignificant. They are struggling and older Americans should give a damn.
And every single one of those heros CHOSE that path. How many drafted men died for our nation, drafted at 18 before they were legally allowed to vote at the age of 21?
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Don't tell my 22-1/2 year old niece. She just bought a house and is progressing nicely up the ladder at a major grocery chain in the northeast, even though her college degree (which she earned by age 20) wasn't even in the same field as her current occupation. She's pretty darn optimistic about her future, but she's practical, hard-working and doesn't waste her money - so she must be unique among all those "grim" young people.
I hope there are enough like her to pay for the boomers who didn't save enough for retirement. As in, 85% of them. **nononono*
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My grandmothers didn’t have the opportunity for a college education; my daughters do. My son, on the high functioning end of the spectrum, would be kicked out of school in my grandparents’ day, yet here he is THRIVING in a private Catholic school. If you consider central air and nat gas heat, both controlled from my iPhone, regression, then I got a bridge to sell you.
We're not regressing technologically, and yes, some things are better. A lot of young people are deeply in debt. A lot of them have nothing in savings and little hope of getting to a point where they do have a nest egg. A lot of them aren't insured because they can't afford it. A lot of young people are spending half of their entire income on rent.
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the boomers who didn't save enough for retirement. As in, 85% of them. **nononono*
Talk about irresponsible! And they grew up with more economic opportunities.
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And every single one of those heros CHOSE that path. How many drafted men died for our nation, drafted at 18 before they were legally allowed to vote at the age of 21?
There's still the rest of my post, but yes, the draft was rough on a lot of people. There sure are a lot of brave young heroes coming out of a generation that's so incredibly lazy and useless.
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We're not regressing technologically, and yes, some things are better. A lot of young people are deeply in debt. A lot of them have nothing in savings and little hope of getting to a point where they do. A lot of them aren't insured because they can't afford it. A lot of young people are spending half of their entire income on rent.
Then they need to move. They also need to accept the fact that their debt, college no doubt, was asked on poor decisions. Then they need to google Dave Ramsey and do the right thing. Once they actually help themselves instead of expecting others to help them, they will be able to save for the future and be productumembers of society. So many people have escaped debt and lived well. Again, NOTHING IS NEW. If others have done it so can they.
Don’t be so negative. Millennials have every chance to be successful if you would just quit making excuses for them and let the fail.
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Funny you missed the 80s, 90s, and naughts, which are the more relevant time periods for comparison in terms of why more kids might be going back home.
Guess it was mighty hard in the 80s, what with that big hair and shoulder pads.
Maybe your grannie should save the drama and take an Uber.
Oh FFS. There wasn't a recession in the 80s? There wasn't a recession in the 90s? 9/11 happened the day after my husband started his first job out of college. How about a war in the middle east that's been going on basically since I was in high school. Every generation has something. Most generations have been whiny babies about it.
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Millennials have every chance to be successful if you would just quit making excuses for them and let the fail.
I don't think woe and misery is a necessary part of growing up. I will never be okay with sitting back and watching Americans lose everything, especially the young ones.
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You're rightfully extremely proud of her. She found that success despite the fact that things are tough right now. Anecdotes don't change reality, though.
I thought that whole tale of the guy and his airbags was an anecdote.
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Oh FFS. There wasn't a recession in the 80s? There wasn't a recession in the 90s? 9/11 happened the day after my husband started his first job out of college. How about a war in the middle east that's been going on basically since I was in high school. Every generation has something. Most generations have been whiny babies about it.
Doesn’t change the fact that the ability of those just starting off to maintain themselves has been undercut, mostly by government policies that have made many things more expensive and made it harder for the marginally skilled to find good starter jobs.
In fact, that is one of the principle arguments against the $15 minimum wage idiocy: that far from increasing the income of those at the bottom, it will simply lead to more of them being unemployed, and unemployable.
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I thought that whole tale of the guy and his airbags was an anecdote.
Of course it was an anecdote. But sometimes anecdotes serve a purpose, and that is to illustrate an issue that exists independent of the anecdote.
Or are you going to accuse me of lying about how much it costs to replace deployed airbags. If that’s what you think, then google it.
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Oh FFS. There wasn't a recession in the 80s? There wasn't a recession in the 90s? 9/11 happened the day after my husband started his first job out of college. How about a war in the middle east that's been going on basically since I was in high school. Every generation has something. Most generations have been whiny babies about it.
Same here. My husband (boyfriend at the time) was a first year firefighter on 9/11. I was sitting in the only history class that would fit my schedule in time to graduate: The Crusades Through Arab Eyes. I kid you not. An Islamic apologist arguing her case when the planes hit. Hubby and I both considered enlisting. There was an article I read today about Trumps 100% chance of getting re-elected if he pulled out of the Middle East. We’ve been there since I was in elementary school. I’ll be 40 next summer.
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I thought that whole tale of the guy and his airbags was an anecdote.
Pinot noir out the nose stings 888high58888
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200 posts and we still haven't figured out why these ticturd millennials are the biggest losers we have ever seen.
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Same here. My husband (boyfriend at the time) was a first year firefighter on 9/11. I was sitting in the only history class that would fit my schedule in time to graduate: The Crusades Through Arab Eyes. I kid you not. An Islamic apologist arguing her case when the planes hit. Hubby and I both considered enlisting. There was an article I read today about Trumps 100% chance of getting re-elected if he pulled out of the Middle East. We’ve been there since I was in elementary school. I’ll be 40 next summer.
And I was downtown in NYC when the planes struck. BFD.
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I don't think woe and misery is a necessary part of growing up. I will never be okay with sitting back and watching Americans lose everything, especially the young ones.
Actually it is. Successful people generally have had major failures in their past and learned from them. Successful people tread further than others are willing to go pushing the limits of whatever it is they do. In order to reach those limits they have to be tested to find them. With intelligent risk comes the potential for failure and reward. It is those who push the boundaries often failing but getting back up and working at it again based on what they learned who achieve the highest. Those who cannot tolerate woe and misery need not apply.
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200 posts and we still haven't figured out why these ticturd millennials are the biggest losers we have ever seen.
I think it's because they've been repressed by The Man.
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And I was downtown in NYC when the planes struck. BFD.
Don't you have someone to sue?
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I don't think woe and misery is a necessary part of growing up. I will never be okay with sitting back and watching Americans lose everything, especially the young ones.
Woe and misery is literally essential to growing up. From teething to puberty to heartbreak, to loss of loved ones, woe and misery are essential. Woe and misery are what makes the happy times so happy. It’s life. Shit happens. When it does we’re reminded about the good, though. Life is so worth it, even the bad parts. You can’t escape the bad, but you can be positive about the bad and enjoy the good.
Watching people lose everything? Yep. There’s an old saying: When the well is dry, you know the worth of water. Many millennials will become productive when they know thirst. They need a bit of hardship to understand what hardship truly is.
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Those who cannot tolerate woe and misery need not apply.
Ask a bunch of 18 year olds slaving away in an extremely understaffed Walmart for 9 dollars an hour if they understand anything about woe and misery. All that hard work and a lot of them can't even afford a freaking car, let alone put money away for a house or retirement.
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The laws do need to be changed so that airbags can be deactivated by repair shops. SRS tend to fail in older vehicles anyway and cost a mint to replace.
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And I was downtown in NYC when the planes struck. BFD.
Good for you? Not sure about your intent with that post. I was merely reminiscing with @RoosGirl , but your response indicates a desire for a pissing contest. As I’m female, I’ll politely decline as I’m not physically equipped for that competition.
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Of course it was an anecdote. But sometimes anecdotes serve a purpose, and that is to illustrate an issue that exists independent of the anecdote.
Or are you going to accuse me of lying about how much it costs to replace deployed airbags. If that’s what you think, then google it.
I've said nothing on this entire thread about your friend's car. I haven't accused you of anything and I have no interest in accusing you of anything.
But if you can tell an anecdote about a guy who's found replacing his damaged car too expensive, I can tell an anecdote about a "millennial" who seems to be succeeding financially and achieving her goals without angst - and I didn't do it just so @Dexter could give permission for me to be proud of my niece. It was to point out that his generalizations are faulty. (All generalizations are false, including this one). Life isn't universally bad for every 20-something in America. A few examples of poor young people with feelings of hopelessness doesn't prove make Dexter's case anymore than my description of my niece proves that everything's rosy for young people. A few anecdotes are just, well, anecdotes. Making generalizations from a couple of specifics is not the most logical thing to do.
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Ask a bunch of 18 year olds slaving away in an extremely understaffed Walmart for 9 dollars an hour if they understand anything about woe and misery. All that hard work and a lot of them can't even afford a freaking car, let alone put money away for a house or retirement.
Is the typical 18 year old thinking about putting money away for a house, let alone retirement? :silly:
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I think it's because they've been repressed by The Man.
I think it's because they were spoiled rotten growing up...just a guess..
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200 posts and we still haven't figured out why these ticturd millennials are the biggest losers we have ever seen.
My observation is that most are poorly educated - and they're uneducated because so little is demanded of them.
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Is the typical 18 year old thinking about putting money away for a house, let alone retirement? :silly:
They might be if they were making enough money to not qualify for food stamps.
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Ask a bunch of 18 year olds slaving away in an extremely understaffed Walmart for 9 dollars an hour if they understand anything about woe and misery. All that hard work and a lot of them can't even afford a freaking car, let alone put money away for a house or retirement.
There’s literally slavery existing right now, November 25, 2018. Real slavery. Forced labor, sex slavery, even upon children. Do not equivocate earning a legal wage doing legal work upon one’s free will as slavery. It’s disgusting.
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I've said nothing on this entire thread about your friend's car. I haven't accused you of anything and I have no interest in accusing you of anything.
But if you can tell an anecdote about a guy who's found replacing his damaged car too expensive, I can tell an anecdote about a "millennial" who seems to be succeeding financially and achieving her goals without angst - and I didn't do it just so @Dexter could give permission for me to be proud of my niece. It was to point out that his generalizations are faulty. (All generalizations are false, including this one). Life isn't universally bad for every 20-something in America. A few examples of poor young people with feelings of hopelessness doesn't prove make Dexter's case anymore than my description of my niece proves that everything's rosy for young people. A few anecdotes are just, well, anecdotes. Making generalizations from a couple of specifics is not the most logical thing to do.
Your niece is exceptional. A lot of millennials are struggling a lot. Would you like to see some statistics?
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Ask a bunch of 18 year olds slaving away in an extremely understaffed Walmart for 9 dollars an hour if they understand anything about woe and misery. All that hard work and a lot of them can't even afford a freaking car, let alone put money away for a house or retirement.
Sorry. Not feeling it with that example. That's a starting job. A beginning. A foot in the door to the real world. If they don't want to work for $9 an hour at Walmart they better develop some skills either from that job to move up or do something else.
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Ask a bunch of 18 year olds slaving away in an extremely understaffed Walmart for 9 dollars an hour if they understand anything about woe and misery. All that hard work and a lot of them can't even afford a freaking car, let alone put money away for a house or retirement.
Who the hell can afford a car at 18? That's why, at that age as they toil at Walmart (and it's not slavery, by the way), they should be considering where they want to go and what they might do with their lives that might provide them the things they want. Start with education that will lead to that career and that level of income, whether trade school or college.
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Is the typical 18 year old thinking about putting money away for a house, let alone retirement? :silly:
Typical 18 year olds are worried about paying for illegal Adderall and/or Ritalin.
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They might be if they were making enough money to not qualify for food stamps.
Get the bleep out of town. They're thinking about getting stoned at the next party, getting laid at the next party and how when they grow up they're going to be rap stars or pro football players.
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Sorry. Not feeling it with that example. That's a starting job. A beginning. A foot in the door to the real world. If they don't want to work for $9 an hour at Walmart they better develop some skills either from that job to move up or do something else.
Maybe we all should compare notes. My first job paid around $1.60 per hour. I certainly did not expect to be able to buy a car, house and retirement plan with entry-level income - which is why I went on to become educated and gain other job skills.
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Start with education
50-100k in debt at least unless your life goals involve fixing air conditioners or welding.
that will lead to that career and that level of income
You hope. And yeah, a lot of people make bad choices with their degrees. Too bad they don't have more common sense than that.
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Typical 18 year olds are worried about paying for illegal Adderall and/or Ritalin.
Yeah because they're trying to balance a full time job and college.
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50-100k in debt at least unless your life goals involve fixing air conditioners or welding.
You hope. And yeah, a lot of people make bad choices with their degrees. Too bad they don't have more common sense than that.
Please don't tell me you look down on air conditioning repairmen and welders. Sounds like a pretty good goal to me.
For the record, I made a bad choice with my undergraduate degree, as far as my career path goes, but that didn't stop me from getting a graduate degree that I could use (total student loan debt, $6,000) to make a decent living.
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Yeah because they're trying to balance a full time job and college.
No, because they want the feel goods. I, and many before me and the invention of prescription meth, blanched both. Again, I’m tail end GenX so I know. Generations before me balanced a hell of a lot more responsibility with a hell of a lot less money and excuses.
Again, quit being so negative. We can make it. Just quit bailing out stupid people.
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50-100k in debt at least unless your life goals involve fixing air conditioners or welding.
You hope. And yeah, a lot of people make bad choices with their degrees. Too bad they don't have more common sense than that.
You can get your welding certs for free at our local community college and if you can also pass a piss test, you can start welding in the oil and gas industry for $90/hour.
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Yeah because they're trying to balance a full time job and college.
Oh FFS. Here comes the pitch for "free" college.
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Who the hell can afford a car at 18? That's why, at that age as they toil at Walmart (and it's not slavery, by the way), they should be considering where they want to go and what they might do with their lives that might provide them the things they want. Start with education that will lead to that career and that level of income, whether trade school or college.
My parents bought me an 18 year old VW bug for my first car in around 1978. It had no A/C. No automatic transmission. No power steering. No power brakes. No disc brakes, No power anything. Not even a gas gauge. It had an AM radio and a lever on the metal dash board to go to the reserve fuel tank when you ran out of gas on the primary tank. It had a measuring stick you stuck in the gas tank to see how much was in it if you wanted to know. It had a 6 V battery which gave you dull orange glow out front for headlights. It didn't even have seat belts.
And I was grateful for it.
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Sounds like a pretty good goal to me.
Not for everybody, or even most people.
For the record, I made a bad choice with my undergraduate degree, as far as my career path goes, but that didn't stop me from getting a graduate degree that I could use (total student loan debt, $6,000) to make a decent living.
I'm glad everything worked out for well for you.
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Being grateful - even for a stripped-down VW - is better than boo-hooing over the things you can't afford! :laugh:
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I'm glad everything worked out for well for you.
*****rollingeyes*****
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Oh FFS. Here comes the pitch for "free" college.
If any of you that are well off were true nationalists you would be happy to give some of what you have earned in your life to see young Americans get educated and get a head start. Anti-globalism isn't going to work out well for us if all of our people are uneducated and poor.
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American exceptionalism is about freedom, rugged individuality, and optimism. All the bitching about what some don’t have but others do is the opposite of how our nation was founded. If millennials aren’t up to it, the generation I’m raising will be.
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If any of you that are well off were true nationalists you would be happy to give some of what you have earned in your life to see young Americans get educated and get a head start. Anti-globalism isn't going to work out well for us if all of our people are uneducated and poor.
Aaaaaaand there it is.
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Aaaaaaand there it is.
:silly:
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Instead of freedom, rugged individualism, and optimism, let’s just make everything free. Yeah, that’ll work *****rollingeyes*****
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:silly:
No matter how many truth dumps we take on him, he just doesn’t get it. Only a year in Venezuela will do the trick . . . if he survives.
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Instead of freedom, rugged individualism, and optimism, let’s just make everything free. Yeah, that’ll work *****rollingeyes*****
Let's stop wasting so much money on stupid shit so we can prioritize things that will actually put the United States ahead of the rest of the world.
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Aaaaaaand there it is.
It took awhile but there it is..lol
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If any of you that are well off were true nationalists you would be happy to give some of what you have earned in your life to see young Americans get educated and get a head start. Anti-globalism isn't going to work out well for us if all of our people are uneducated and poor.
It is government intervention into college student funding that has caused tuition costs to go through the roof. When access to money becomes easier the price of things go up to match because you can "afford it". That is what caused the real estate melt down around 2007. If you really mean what you say, get government out of education and out of student loans. Then college would become more affordable. Colleges wouldn't have a choice if they want to stay in business.
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Let's stop wasting so much money on stupid shit so we can prioritize things that will actually put the United States ahead of the rest of the world.
Freedom, rugged individualism, and optimism, what you call, stupid shit, IS what put the US ahead of the rest of the world.
For your next party trick, can you tell us how Osama Bin Ladin was just a freedom fighter not unlike the Founding Fathers? :silly: :silly: :silly:
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Do you think if we removed the entire cost of having a military presence in Europe and other forms of international charity it could create enough room for the cost of helping young people get educated?
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Do you think if we removed the entire cost of having a military presence in Europe and other forms of international charity it could create enough room for the cost of helping young people get educated?
Both need to go. Next question?
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Both need to go. Next question?
The government isn't going to stop taking your money. We can at least fight for that money to not be spent on stupid things.
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Aaaaaaand there it is.
:silly: :silly: :silly:
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Let's stop wasting so much money on stupid shit so we can prioritize things that will actually put the United States ahead of the rest of the world.
Actually it was the freedom for individual people to decide what to do with their talent, money and efforts that made America what it is. The more you take from them so government can decide what is best for everyone the more we will decline. Instead trust the people to do what's best for the country individually.
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Actually it was the freedom for individual people to decide what to do with their talent, money and efforts that made America what it is. The more you take from them so government can decide what is best for everyone the more we will decline. Instead trust the people to do what's best for the country individually.
You don't think a public option for college education would help put us ahead of the rest of the world? Why not just get rid of public education entirely if it does nothing useful? Why do you think that was done in the first place?
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Actually it was the freedom for individual people to decide what to do with their talent, money and efforts that made America what it is. The more you take from them so government can decide what is best for everyone the more we will decline. Instead trust the people to do what's best for the country individually.
No.
We need to change from freedom for individuals and become just like Sweden, where everyone is happy and healthy and they make the world a better place because of all their stellar accomplishments. :tongue2:
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The government isn't going to stop taking your money. We can at least fight for that money to not be spent on stupid things.
Of coarse they’re not going to stop. They’ve had the taste of blood. As for stupid things, there’s nothing more ignorant than thinking success and happiness can be legislated. Success and happiness is not the end result of written laws, but the end result of hard work.
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If any of you that are well off were true nationalists you would be happy to give some of what you have earned in your life to see young Americans get educated and get a head start. Anti-globalism isn't going to work out well for us if all of our people are uneducated and poor.
You know what, I give every year in the form of property taxes to pay for education. And every year the teachers get dumber and every year the students get dumberer. Educating oneself is a choice and us throwing more and more and more money at it isn't going to force anyone smarter.
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You know what, I give every year in the form of property taxes to pay for education. And every year the teachers get dumber and every year the students get dumberer. Educating oneself is a choice and us throwing more and more and more money at it isn't going to force anyone smarter.
Schools don't have enough money or space to hire more teachers and reduce the size of classrooms so children can get more one on one education time. Giant classrooms reduce the quality of education, and teachers are being forced to teach more and more students. Do you think that might have something to do with it? I personally know teachers that have to spend some of the small amount of money they make on buying supplies for the children they teach because the school won't provide them. That's ridiculous. In America? Absolutely unacceptable.
I also think teachers should make a lot more money. If you want exceptional minds to do an important job you need to pay good money. How many truly gifted people are going to put up with that shit?
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Schools don't have enough money or space to hire more teachers and reduce the size of classrooms so children can get more one on one education time. Giant classrooms reduce the quality of education, and teachers are being forced to teach more and more students. Do you think that might have something to do with it? I personally know teachers that have to spend some of the small amount of money they make on buying supplies for the children they teach because the school won't provide them. That's ridiculous. In America? Absolutely unacceptable.
I also think teachers should make a lot more money. If you want exceptional minds to do an important job you need to pay good money. How many truly gifted people are going to put up with that shit?
I’m a teacher. I disagree with everything in this post. I’m also going to bed. Good night, all!
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Schools don't have enough money or space to hire more teachers and reduce the size of classrooms so children can get more one on one education time. Giant classrooms reduce the quality of education, and teachers are being forced to teach more and more students. Do you think that might have something to do with it? I personally know teachers that have to spend some of the small amount of money they make on buying supplies for the children they teach because the school won't provide them. That's ridiculous. In America? Absolutely unacceptable.
I also think teachers should make a lot more money. If you want exceptional minds to do an important job you need to pay good money. How many truly gifted people are going to put up with that shit?
My college chemistry lecture class was 200 students. Did we not learn chemistry because there were too many kids in the class, or should it be up to the individual, or in the lower grades the individuals' parents, to give a shit about them learning? Should they not be expected to contribute some minimal amount for their own kids education?
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You don't think a public option for college education would help put us ahead of the rest of the world? Why not just get rid of public education entirely if it does nothing useful? Why do you think that was done in the first place?
No, I don't.
You value and work at what you've worked hard to get. It is easy to use free resources with no payback since it costs nothing to give it a go. And who cares if they fail trying a class that cost them nothing - other than the taxpayers paying for it all. People put effort into something when it is their money on the line. In addition those people who shouldn't be in the class take away time and resources from those who should. In short, our colleges will just become what public schools have become, mediocre daycare government jobs programs. Not in the best interest of the students but in the best interest of unions and government officials.
And then what incentives are there for the colleges to be more cost efficient if the taxpayers are paying for it? Nothing is as expensive as "free" stuff. There's a reason why our colleges were the envy of the rest of the world for a long time.
Ever see what happens when you give people free housing via government assistance? They have no investment in the house so they don't take care of it. It means little to them because it cost them nothing.
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Did we not learn chemistry
That's not the point. On average you would have learned chemistry quicker and more thoroughly if you had been in a smaller class.
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I’m a teacher. I disagree with everything in this post.
Could you elaborate please? Also I'm glad to see that not all teachers are communists.
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That's not the point. On average you would have learned chemistry quicker and more thoroughly if you had been in a smaller class.
Ohhhh....that's right. Y'all are in a hurry to start making money to save for houses and retirement.
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Schools don't have enough money or space to hire more teachers and reduce the size of classrooms so children can get more one on one education time. Giant classrooms reduce the quality of education, and teachers are being forced to teach more and more students. Do you think that might have something to do with it? I personally know teachers that have to spend some of the small amount of money they make on buying supplies for the children they teach because the school won't provide them. That's ridiculous. In America? Absolutely unacceptable.
I also think teachers should make a lot more money. If you want exceptional minds to do an important job you need to pay good money. How many truly gifted people are going to put up with that shit?
You don't know what your talking about regarding teacher pay, particularly for the hours worked over a year. Teachers benefits far exceed what anyone in the private sector gets.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbiggs/2015/08/28/california-teacher-retirement-benefits-are-hardly-modest-but-calstrs-doesnt-want-you-to-know-that/#1120a6cd6d3d (https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbiggs/2015/08/28/california-teacher-retirement-benefits-are-hardly-modest-but-calstrs-doesnt-want-you-to-know-that/#1120a6cd6d3d)
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You don't know what your talking about regarding teacher pay, particularly for the hours worked over a year. Teachers benefits far exceed what anyone in the private sector gets.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbiggs/2015/08/28/california-teacher-retirement-benefits-are-hardly-modest-but-calstrs-doesnt-want-you-to-know-that/#1120a6cd6d3d (https://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewbiggs/2015/08/28/california-teacher-retirement-benefits-are-hardly-modest-but-calstrs-doesnt-want-you-to-know-that/#1120a6cd6d3d)
Teaching young people is in my opinion one of the most important jobs that there is. I think teachers should make more money. There are areas where a teacher that went to school for 6 years can start out earning as little as 30-35k/yr. Also unacceptable. They should be making as much as professors and the barrier to entry should be just as steep or steeper.
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Teaching young people is in my opinion one of the most important jobs that there is. I think teachers should make more money. There are areas where a teacher that went to school for 6 years can start out earning as little as 30-35k/yr. Also unacceptable. They should be making as much as professors and the barrier to entry should be just as steep or steeper.
Then start writing checks to the school and ask your neighbors and friends to do the same. Just don't demand someone else pay the bill for what you think is a great idea.
But if you really want to make a difference in children's education in public schools, get rid of tenure and hold teachers accountable for the results. Get rid of teachers unions that are more interested in what they can get as a jobs program than the students. Do something about disruptive students that are essentially untouchable these days that steal time from the other students in the class.
California spends over $11,495 per high school student per year. For 20 students per class that's $229,900 a year...
New York spends over $22,366 per high school student per year. For 20 students per class that's $447,320 a year...
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html (http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html)
Yet we don't spend enough you say for public education...
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Yet we don't spend enough you say for public education...
I didn't say a lot of money isn't wasted. We can do better than this. Putting more pressure on teachers is not the answer.
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I didn't say a lot of money isn't wasted. We can do better than this. Putting more pressure on teachers is not the answer.
Oh, but putting more pressure on everyone else in the form of higher taxes is?
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Schools don't have enough money or space to hire more teachers and reduce the size of classrooms so children can get more one on one education time. Giant classrooms reduce the quality of education, and teachers are being forced to teach more and more students. Do you think that might have something to do with it? I personally know teachers that have to spend some of the small amount of money they make on buying supplies for the children they teach because the school won't provide them. That's ridiculous. In America? Absolutely unacceptable.
I also think teachers should make a lot more money. If you want exceptional minds to do an important job you need to pay good money. How many truly gifted people are going to put up with that shit?
Where I live, back in the 50s and 60s, we had as many as 60 kids in a class. We were part of the Babby Boomer generation, so there were plenty of us kids to teach. Maybe we didn't get "individualized attention" per se, but if a teacher was so motivated, we could always get help if we were struggling and we managed to learn.
My brother had a math teacher who was more than willing to work for as long as it took for my brother to understand a difficult concept. I wasn't so lucky. I had one math teacher whose idea of teaching was to tell us kids to open the math book and do the problems from page x to page y. I learned to knuckle down and figure out things on my own. I was also lucky to have parents who took an interest in my education. My father was always available to help with homework
I notice that in many homes nowadays, parents only care about their kids' education when the kids get into a fight or some other trouble at school. I've been told by teachers that there are parents who never show up for parent-teacher conferences. In many of those homes the parents aren't even around. A teacher, even a good one, can only do so much in the 6 hours or so a day they have the kids. Their work is for naught if there is no motivation to learn from the parents at home.
The neighborhood I live in -- the same one I was born and raised in -- has gone downhill over the years. Most of the people who have kids in school don't pay property taxes because either they rent or they live in some kind of subsidized housing. I own my own home, but I don't have any children. Yet, I'm payiing taxes to educate a bunch of other peoples' kids. About 40% of these kids don't graduate and the ones that do -- they can recite every social justice talking point, but they can't read or write, solve a math problem, find our town on a map or know anything about American history. The only "science" they know is the propaganda about this alleged "global warming." So I doubt what I pay in property taxes goes toward actually educating the kids.
Maybe things are different where you live. I know about ten minutes from my house is a school district that is more affluent than mine and the kids are better educated. That district has won an assortment of awards for excellence. It also has more intact families active in their kids' education and can afford to hire the best teachers. Most of the rest of us aren't so lucky.
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@Dexter You bitch and complain that your generation has less opportunities than anyone else, and here you are advocating for more taxes. And on another thread advocating that people, on a different continent even, suspend their way of life to save a rain forest that their ancestors basically made. What do you think that is going to do to business opportunities when people have less of their money to spend on stuff because they have to pay more and more taxes to pay for your free feel-good stuff?
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Oh, but putting more pressure on everyone else in the form of higher taxes is?
I bet if we stopped wasting so much money we could have public college and bring down your taxes.
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I didn't say a lot of money isn't wasted. We can do better than this. Putting more pressure on teachers is not the answer.
It's MY money. It's not yours or any other misguided so-called do-gooder's money. I will decide how hard I work and what I do with what I earn. Not you.
And, the whole argument about where we should or shouldn't spend more is irrelevant anyway. We are spending much more than we have available as it is. The whole argument is nonsense.
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It's MY money. It's not yours or any other misguided so-called do-gooder's money. I will decide how hard I work and what I do with what I earn. Not you.
And, the whole argument about where we should or shouldn't spend more is irrelevant anyway. We are spending much more than we have available as it is. The whole argument is nonsense.
I addressed all of this already. I respect your opinion but I don't think you prioritize the needs of your nation highly enough.
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I bet if we stopped wasting so much money we could have public college and bring down your taxes.
That waste is entrenched in the very institution you demand we give more to. Layers of bureaucracy backed by unions. The student part is incidental. If you have any even slightly conservative friends that are teachers I suggest you go have a chat with them about how things work in public education. I believe it will be far different than you think.
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I bet if we stopped wasting so much money we could have public college and bring down your taxes.
Yes, we know, by not giving it all away to Israel.
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Yes, we know, by not giving it all away to Israel.
And a bunch of other countries.
And the U.N.
And to the EU in the form of protection.
And to the military-industrial complex because they bribe congress to pay for hardware we don't need.
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And a bunch of other countries.
And the U.N.
And to the EU in the form of protection.
And to the military-industrial complex because they bribe congress to pay for hardware we don't need.
Ahh, you want to cut our military back also.
So, free college.
Save the rain forests.
Raise taxes.
Reduce military.
Friends, I think I've heard this song before.
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Ahh, you want to cut our military back also.
So, free college.
Save the rain forests.
Raise taxes.
Reduce military.
Friends, I think I've heard this song before.
We should also build a giant ass wall and kick out all of the poor foreigners so only Americans have access to the cool shit we do.
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We should also build a giant ass wall and kick out all of the poor foreigners so only Americans have access to the cool shit we do.
I think somewhere along the line you're lying to us about what you really believe.
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I think somewhere along the line you're lying to us about what you really believe.
You think I actually want to let in a bunch of poor foreigners so none of it would ever work?
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You think I actually want to let in a bunch of poor foreigners so none of it would ever work?
I haven't figured out yet which part of your story you're lying about.
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I haven't figured out yet which part of your story you're lying about.
:shrug:
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Millennials were born into an America that's hard to get by in when you're starting from the bottom. They didn't ask for that; they had no choice. Blaming them for struggling is cruel and unfair.
No harder than ever... Just that millenials believe the indoctrination they've gotten from the schools, and believe they have a right to success... and that has left them utterly incapable of withstanding the pressure it takes to make it happen.
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Young people don't struggle like they do here in places like Sweden.
Then go live in Sweden.
The sun is always shining somewhere over the rainbow for you, ain't it?
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It's harder than it used to be. I think that's something older Americans don't give attention to often enough.
I am 56 and busted flat on my ass. And disabled. But somehow I am coming back... in the same environment as you.
And no, it isn't harder than it was - It is much the same.
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Yet it's still expected a lot of the time, and a lot of young people are suffering a lot because of it. Young people work ridiculously hard. Suggesting otherwise is an insult.
LOL! no.
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I addressed all of this already. I respect your opinion but I don't think you prioritize the needs of your nation highly enough.
y
You have no idea what my priorities are.
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There seems to be a belief here that you have a “right†not to struggle a little bit when you’re just starting out in the adult world
I won’t go into details what I had to do to put myself through college and what it was like when my wife and I were just starting out in life nor that of my parents or my grandparents. But young people starting life kind of on the rough side until they enter their peak Earning years isn’t unusual or unique to the millennials
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If they accepted the same standard of living common for someone starting out a generation or two ago, there would be no problem at all starting out.
But when big screen TV's and the like are considered basic necessities, it is no wonder you start with a struggle. What percentage of their salary goes to the vehicle compared to a couple decades ago?
That is sorta right... But not really. That is not the thing. They are not equipped to find or fix.
I have no money, but I have a big screen. In fact, I have two... and one of them is a monster that I got busted and free. fixed it, and it works like a champion. I could flip it for a few bucks, or keep it, because I am only into it about $30 total.
Same with cars... I am currently moving on a late 90s 1T 4x4 with a busted transmission. I will pick it up under a grand, and it will cost me a few hundred to fix the transmission... Because I can fix the dang thing myself.
What is missing is the wherewithal to be content and live within their means.
I am still busted flat. I am still living on less per month than I used to spend of fancy coffees.
But I eat real good, and I can produce upward economic mobility... because I know how to hunt, and fish, and garden, and because I have or obtain tools and know or obtain the knowledge how to use them.
THAT is what is missing.
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Young people don't struggle like they do here in places like Sweden.
How can you even say that? 100% of Swedish college students take on debt (student loans) even though their college is "free". This is 50% higher than the rate for American students.
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Generational wars. Every young person since caveman times always believed that he’s going to have it rough and his parents had it easy.
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How can you even say that? 100% of Swedish college students take on debt (student loans) even though their college is "free". This is 50% higher than the rate for American students.
They make much smaller payments to that debt and it disappears after a certain amount of time. Young people are much more comfortable in Sweden. In Denmark people get paid to go to school.
https://mic.com/articles/110302/this-country-is-literally-paying-students-to-go-to-college#.ykvoJWsfw
According to a report in the Washington Post, under the Statens Uddannelsesstøtte program, all Danes over the age of 18 are entitled to funding from the state for up to six years for post-secondary education. Every student who doesn't live with their parents receives about 5,839 Danish krones (about $900) per month, and they do not need to pay the state back — even if they drop out of college — according to the Post. High-performing students have even more funding opportunities.
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It is a lot harder to get started on the ground floor than it used to be. A lot of that has to do with government policies on pay and benefits; it’s simply a lot more expensive to take someone on at the ground floor in the hope that he or she will develop some strong skills from the experience. As a result, fewer people can get in through what used to be the tried and true method.
Unlikely a $15 mandatory minimum wage would make that any easier
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Easy to say when you were part of the most privileged generation in the history of the world.
Back when I was a young teen/young adult in the late 1970’s/early ‘80’s, there wasn’t much in the way of employment. Inflation was high along with unemployment. Many of us young men went into the military after HS. My dad worked in the mines on the Iron Range and I thought that’s were I’d go work after HS. Then layoffs came. When I was a junior in high school around early 80s, the country was in a pretty bad recession. A Chuck E. Cheese’s was opening at the Miller Hill Mall in Duluth and on a Saturday they were taking applications. There was a line that went outside the mall and just about all away around it of people applying for what amounted to probably 15 positions. I didn’t get hired because I told the interviewer that I refused to cut my hair if I was hired. I was not college material out of high school so the only choice for me was to join the service. But despite all the struggles in my younger years life eventually turned out pretty good
Whatever you may at your age be going through, keep in mind that many of us here also experienced the same. Every generation thinks the preceding generation had it easy
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We should also build a giant ass wall and kick out all of the poor foreigners so only Americans have access to the cool shit we do.
You haven't a clue why or how you have access to the cool shit you do. But after reading your posts, no worries, you won't have it for long @Dexter
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We should also build a giant ass wall and kick out all of the poor foreigners so only Americans have access to the cool shit we do.
Wait... Is that a giant wall made of regular asses, or a regular wall made of giant asses?
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You don't think a public option for college education would help put us ahead of the rest of the world? Why not just get rid of public education entirely if it does nothing useful? Why do you think that was done in the first place?
We're already ahead of the rest of the world without free college tuition. And besies a college educations isn't the end all be all Gold Standard people think it is. THere's lots of people working hourly wages because they have their "degree" but its in some obscure area that won't get them a job in the real world.
Public education before the unions and the PC police got involved was just fine.
I'm a product of public education and the difference in what is was and what it's become is clear in how your getting your little socialist butt handed to you in this debate.
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y
You have no idea what my priorities are.
@Sanguine
Clearly our little socialist friend believes in the state over the individual and we're wrong for thinking otherwise.
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Young people don't struggle like they do here in places like Sweden.
If so great why do they have some of the highest suicide rates in the world? I actually know a few Swedes on FB through my hobby. They all want to come and live in the US.
@Dexter
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If so great why do they have some of the highest suicide rates in the world? I actually know a few Swedes on FB through my hobby. They all want to come and live in the US.
@Dexter
Maybe we can set up some sort of prisoner exchange, for lack of a better term.
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Young people don't struggle like they do here in places like Sweden.
Read this. Young people struggle in Sweden.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-bad-things-about-Sweden (https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-bad-things-about-Sweden)
@Dexter
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Yet it's still expected a lot of the time, and a lot of young people are suffering a lot because of it. Young people work ridiculously hard. Suggesting otherwise is an insult.
Before I retired about 6 years ago, about 1/3 - 1/2 of my 70-80 person department at a petrochemical manufacturing facility were millennials.
First hand, I can say you either left the sarcasm tag off, or this was a spectacular joke.
When you can get their thumbs off their electronic devices, they are mostly entitlement driven, and expect promotions and accolades for just doing the bare minimum. Provide candid feedback? Feelings are hurt. Ask to do extra? What's in it for me.
IF that's an insult to you so be it. And I doubt much has changed in the past 6 years.
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I've enjoyed this thread. Except for a few cases of unnecessary snark and personal attacks, it's been a good, rousing exchange of ideas. :beer:
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I've enjoyed this thread. Except for a few cases of unnecessary snark and personal attacks, it's been a good, rousing exchange of ideas. :beer:
:tongue2:
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:tongue2:
No, seriously. I said it and meant it. There have been a lot of facts, arguments and anecdotes presented here and it was very refreshing for a change, instead of the usual "you're a poopy head and so is your mother" kind of stuff.
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You haven't a clue why or how you have access to the cool shit you do. But after reading your posts, no worries, you won't have it for long @Dexter
I chalk it up to youth and inexperience. When you are young, there is that youthful desire to change the world. As you get older, you start realizing you can’t implement your world vision upon other people. I would say my best teacher in life has been time and experience.
I suppose that one time when I was young I believed everything should be “free.†Then I became a taxpayer.,... lol.
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If so great why do they have some of the highest suicide rates in the world? I actually know a few Swedes on FB through my hobby. They all want to come and live in the US.
@Dexter
@mirraflake
I used to have a Bookface friend from Netherlands. He would never come here, he's terrified of a country this size awash in guns. I told him he'd really hate AZ...lol. I tolerated his hoplophobia, but when he went on a tear about artwork being the property of the artist's country (even if commissioned or sold to a private collector) I had to unfriend him. He said artwork belongs in museums for everybody to enjoy, not on some rich shit's walls. I told him maybe he'd be better off hanging with poor people.
Interestingly enough, he vacationed in the Philippines. :shrug:
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No, seriously. I said it and meant it. There have been a lot of facts, arguments and anecdotes presented here and it was very refreshing for a change, instead of the usual "you're a poopy head and so is your mother" kind of stuff.
I think it has been too. But...I threw probably more than my share of snark on this thread.
****slapping 22222frying pan :chairbang:
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Who raised these millennials? I don’t feel sorry for their parents.
@goodwithagun
The publik skools and facebook.
Group hug! Group hug!
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If their parents didn't equip them with the necessary life skills to survive on their own it's very much the parents fault.
If the millennials are the type that's too lazy to get off their X Box or playstation to get a job and do nothing to help around the house...it's very much the fault of the lazy 20 something.
@txradioguy
I very much disagree. That is the fault of their parents,also. They need to start parenting by taking away their children's toys and quit making excuses for them.
I maintain that IN GENERAL you are what your parents raised you to be,both good and bad,right up to about age 25. After 25 it's all on you.
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We're already ahead of the rest of the world without free college tuition.
I wouldn't say we're ahead in education, but alright. Let's widen the gap even more then.
And besies a college educations isn't the end all be all Gold Standard people think it is.
No but it's the right path for a lot of young people.
THere's lots of people working hourly wages because they have their "degree" but its in some obscure area that won't get them a job in the real world.
Yeah, that sucks.
Public education before the unions and the PC police got involved was just fine.
I'm a product of public education and the difference in what is was and what it's become is clear in how your getting your little socialist butt handed to you in this debate.
:pondering:
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On the other hand, I look at it as, when your kids pay rent, that transfers your family wealth to some other family. Economically, it makes more sense to live at home sometimes, especially if it allows your kids to save the money to invest in. And there's a tremendous advantage to start investing in your 20s, than waiting until your 30s.
Asians understand this concept, and that's why they are taking over.
@dfwgator
Can't argue with what works,until it doesn't work. It doesn't work for most families because most families don't even try to raise their children with a work ethnic,never mind help them plan for a future. In the typical Asian family,most things are shared. In the typical American family damn near nothing is ever shared.
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I actually know a few Swedes on FB through my hobby. They all want to come and live in the US.
That's weird. Some of the Swedes I know are afraid to even visit here because they don't want to risk getting hurt and having to go to one of our hospitals.
The United States ranks 13th in happiness according to the World Health Organization, coming in behind every Scandinavian country and a few others. We should be number 1.
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@Dexter - when you came back to posting on TBR, you said you had learned a lot here, and were disenchanted with the Democrat party and being moved toward conservatism.
On this thread you have been given factual information and anecdotal material that disproves your feeling that you millennials have things worse than previous generations have had it. The truth is that the majority of young people believe (because they have been indoctrinated into being socialists, as you clearly have) that this country owes them comfort and ease.
You believe that lie, and that's where your entire premise falls apart. You do not have it tougher. You just want your life to be struggle-free.
You, for the most part, remain civil, and you have had multiple older, wiser, and more experienced Briefers here give you information that should help lead you to the truth........ IF you actually are interested in the truth.
Go back and reread this thread, and consider all the advice you have been given, and the real-life experiences and factual data provided, and then, as a Democrat, consider the words of JFK who said, "Ask not what this country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country," and remember that the Democrat party has not always been socialist/communist as it is today, and that the young people of a few decades ago didn't actually expect America to take care of them, but expected to work hard and help America instead.
This is what the majority of your generation, in your selfishness, are missing.
Take heed.
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Read this. Young people struggle in Sweden.
https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-bad-things-about-Sweden (https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-bad-things-about-Sweden)
@Dexter
Quora is the equivalent of Yahoo Answers. All young people everywhere face different kinds of adversity. Young people over there definitely don't struggle as much as they do here.
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The United States ranks 13th in happiness according to the World Health Organization, coming in behind every Scandinavian country and a few others. We should be number 1.
Happiness cannot be created by government decree or program, even free college.
It's up to the individual - like everything else we've been trying to explain to you.
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No, seriously. I said it and meant it. There have been a lot of facts, arguments and anecdotes presented here and it was very refreshing for a change, instead of the usual "you're a poopy head and so is your mother" kind of stuff.
Even if we all still believe the same exact things we believed when we started we can all still grow from good exchanges.
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I chalk it up to youth and inexperience. When you are young, there is that youthful desire to change the world. As you get older, you start realizing you can’t implement your world vision upon other people. I would say my best teacher in life has been time and experience.
I suppose that one time when I was young I believed everything should be “free.†Then I became a taxpayer.,... lol.
We can absolutely make this nation better for the majority. And I bet we could cut our taxes while we're at it. It's gross that we could probably do what these Scandinavian countries are doing just with our waste.
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That's weird. Some of the Swedes I know are afraid to even visit here because they don't want to risk getting hurt and having to go to one of our hospitals.
The United States ranks 13th in happiness according to the World Health Organization, coming in behind every Scandinavian country and a few others. We should be number 1.
The USSR use to make the same claim that theit people were the happiest and healthiest in the world.
We had a doctor that was doing some exchange from Switzerland several years ago in the hospital I work at. She just could not believe how Americans “over treat “ people. People in Europe tend to believe things about America that are not entirely true. They think America is a dangerous place when actually most of America is relatively safe except for a few inner cities
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Happiness cannot be created by government decree or program, even free college.
It's up to the individual - like everything else we've been trying to explain to you.
My happiness always came from a job well done. When I became obsolete in my R&D gig at NXP, I was just as happy to retire.
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@mirraflake
I used to have a Bookface friend from Netherlands. He would never come here, he's terrified of a country this size awash in guns. I told him he'd really hate AZ...lol. I tolerated his hoplophobia, but when he went on a tear about artwork being the property of the artist's country (even if commissioned or sold to a private collector) I had to unfriend him. He said artwork belongs in museums for everybody to enjoy, not on some rich shit's walls. I told him maybe he'd be better off hanging with poor people.
Interestingly enough, he vacationed in the Philippines. :shrug:
A lot of Europeans admire us and our greatness, but I don't think most of them would move here. The average person has a much better time over there.
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We can absolutely make this nation better for the majority.
Your vision of a “better place†may be a lot different than someone else’s. Never assume you know what’s best for individuals
The American economy is the largest in the world. In fact, we drive the world economy. We lead the world in healthcare research and innovation. Our “poor†are the envy of the world. In fact, we still have enough capitalism that the market can meet many of the needs of the poor
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We can absolutely make this nation better for the majority. And I bet we could cut our taxes while we're at it. It's gross that we could probably do what these Scandinavian countries are doing just with our waste.
We can, government can't without screwing somebody.
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I think it has been too. But...I threw probably more than my share of snark on this thread.
****slapping 22222frying pan :chairbang:
(http://www.quotesforthemind.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Bruce-Lee-forgiveness-quote-about-having-the-courage-to-forgive-others-and-your-mistakes.jpg)
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A lot of Europeans admire us and our greatness, but I don't think most of them would move here. The average person has a much better time over there.
I can understand that. Most Americans I know don't want to be "average."
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Easy to say when you were part of the most privileged generation in the history of the world.
@Dexter
So,are you saying that you know RoosGirl and her family history personally,and that qualifies you to make that judgement about her?
I grew up poor as a member of "the most privileged generation",and was told from the time I started school that I needed to learn something because "when you turn 18 you are out of here!" Joined the army on my 17th birthday,and when I came back home on leave from basic training,they had thrown or given away every toy,magazine,book,and piece of clothing I ever owned. My father had even sold my car. It wasn't much of a car,just a junker I had bought with earnings from working on a shrimp boat the summer before joining the army,but it WAS mine and I bought and paid for it. My father's response was "my yard,my car".
Granted,I was adopted,but I was far from being the only one things like this happened to. I knew one guy that said when he returned home on leave after basic training the home no longer belonged to the family. They had sold it and hit the road with no forwarding address.
Ozzie and Harriet was a fantasy tv program,not reality.
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(http://www.quotesforthemind.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Bruce-Lee-forgiveness-quote-about-having-the-courage-to-forgive-others-and-your-mistakes.jpg)
:beer: :beer:
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Happiness cannot be created by government decree or program, even free college.
It's up to the individual - like everything else we've been trying to explain to you.
Sweden is (other than the recent Muslim invasion), a homogeneous culture, pacifist, and basically useless to the rest of the world.
American socialists often use Scandinavia as the ideal that we should try to emulate, when in truth, the situation in those countries is not comparable to the United States. It is inferior.
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@Dexter
So,are you saying that you know RoosGirl and her family history personally,and that qualifies you to make that judgement about her?
I grew up poor as a member of "the most privileged generation",and was told from the time I started school that I needed to learn something because "when you turn 18 you are out of here!" Joined the army on my 17th birthday,and when I came back home on leave from basic training,they had thrown or given away every toy,magazine,book,and piece of clothing I ever owned. My father had even sold my car. It wasn't much of a car,just a junker I had bought with earnings from working on a shrimp boat the summer before joining the army,but it WAS mine and I bought and paid for it. My father's response was "my yard,my car".
Granted,I was adopted,but I was far from being the only one things like this happened to. I knew one guy that said when he returned home on leave after basic training the home no longer belonged to the family. They had sold it and hit the road with no forwarding address.
Ozzie and Harriet was a fantasy tv program,not reality.
From what I've seen, I think you turned it pretty well! 888high58888
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@Dexter - when you came back to posting on TBR, you said you had learned a lot here, and were disenchanted with the Democrat party and being moved toward conservatism.
I used to be liberal across the board. If you really knew where I started you'd agree that I am much more conservative.
On this thread you have been given factual information and anecdotal material that disproves your feeling that you millennials have things worse than previous generations have had it. The truth is that the majority of young people believe (because they have been indoctrinated into being socialists, as you clearly have) that this country owes them comfort and ease.
You believe that lie, and that's where your entire premise falls apart. You do not have it tougher. You just want your life to be struggle-free.
I think financial success these days is clearly more difficult due to distractions and more expensive bills. The millennials are struggling a lot. I don't agree with you when it comes to the reasons for why that is.
You, for the most part, remain civil, and you have had multiple older, wiser, and more experienced Briefers here give you information that should help lead you to the truth........ IF you actually are interested in the truth.
The truth is pretty subjective sometimes. I think we just see things differently when it comes to what our goals as a nation should be. You'd have to muster one hell of an argument to convince me differently when it comes to the things I've said in this thread.
Go back and reread this thread, and consider all the advice you have been given, and the real-life experiences and factual data provided, and then, as a Democrat, consider the words of JFK who said, "Ask not what this country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country," and remember that the Democrat party has not always been socialist/communist as it is today, and that the young people of a few decades ago didn't actually expect America to take care of them, but expected to work hard and help America instead.
This is what the majority of your generation, in your selfishness, are missing.
Take heed.
The Democrat party is just the other side of the one corporate party that controls our country and is turning us into an oligarchy.
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@Dexter
So,are you saying that you know RoosGirl and her family history personally,and that qualifies you to make that judgement about her?
I grew up poor as a member of "the most privileged generation",and was told from the time I started school that I needed to learn something because "when you turn 18 you are out of here!" Joined the army on my 17th birthday,and when I came back home on leave from basic training,they had thrown or given away every toy,magazine,book,and piece of clothing I ever owned. My father had even sold my car. It wasn't much of a car,just a junker I had bought with earnings from working on a shrimp boat the summer before joining the army,but it WAS mine and I bought and paid for it. My father's response was "my yard,my car".
Granted,I was adopted,but I was far from being the only one things like this happened to. I knew one guy that said when he returned home on leave after basic training the home no longer belonged to the family. They had sold it and hit the road with no forwarding address.
Ozzie and Harriet was a fantasy tv program,not reality.
A lot of people from that generation still struggled obviously. I think on average it was a lot easier to find financial success back then. I think those of you that struggled back then would find it even more difficult these days.
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Truth is not, by definition, subjective. Opinions are subjective, however. That they are held particularly fervently doesn't make them any more or less true. They're still opinions.
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It is inferior.
I don't think they're inferior because of their priorities. I think if the United States became truly nationalist and emulated some of what Sweden/Denmark does we would put the rest of the world to shame when it comes to education and other factors. I think we'd be unstoppable.
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Truth is not, by definition, subjective. Opinions are subjective, however. That they are held particularly fervently doesn't make them any more or less true. They're still opinions.
Sometimes there is no definitive truth, only different ways of interpreting reality.
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A lot of people from that generation still struggled obviously. I think on average it was a lot easier to find financial success back then. I think those of you that struggled back then would find it even more difficult these days.
I’ve stumbled onto the problem
You have a lot of “I think†in your posts. We’ve lived your life. You haven’t lived ours yet. What I mean is, many of us have already been your age. You haven’t been our age yet. It has never been expected that you’re in your peak earning years while young.
As you get older and experience more of life you may look back at these posts and think “wow I can’t believe I really believed that†:tongue2:
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I’ve stumbled onto the problem
You have a lot of “I think†in your posts. We’ve lived your life. You haven’t lived ours yet. What I mean is, many of us have already been your age. You haven’t been our age yet. It has never been expected that you’re in your peak earning years while young.
As you get older and experience more of life you may look back at these posts and think “wow I can’t believe I really believed that†:tongue2:
You don't understand the struggles of young people as well as you think you do. Things have changed. You could argue that it was just as hard for you, but you absolutely don't know what's it's like to be a young person today. You have not lived their life. All generations struggle, but it comes to finances the millennials are struggling extra hard, and I don't believe it's all their fault.
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“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan Press On! has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race.â€
― Calvin Coolidge
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A lot of people from that generation still struggled obviously. I think on average it was a lot easier to find financial success back then. I think those of you that struggled back then would find it even more difficult these days.
It was pretty hard back when, too. When I was a Disk Jockey in radio, I was always hand-to-mouth. I decided I hated poverty, and to improve myself I got a Technical degree, then went into R&D. Only then did things start improving. BTW, I paid every penny of that degree, nobody gave it to me. Now I am retiring with a clean conscience.
Would I find it more difficult today? I don't know. If it is, I'd blame policies that have cut the bottom rungs off that ladder, not the generations that came before me.
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Would I find it more difficult today? I don't know. If it is, I'd blame policies that have cut the bottom rungs off that ladder, not the generations that came before me.
Who made those decisions if not the generations that preceded the millennials? I know none of you are personally responsible. The main thing for me is that things are harder than they were then. We should not be regressing. We're losing ground while China and Europe gain ground. We should be widening the gap between us and the rest of the world.
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Truth is not, by definition, subjective. Opinions are subjective, however. That they are held particularly fervently doesn't make them any more or less true. They're still opinions.
I read an article not long ago, maybe psted here, about how schools have stopped teaching the difference between fqct and opinion.
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Who made those decisions if not the generations that preceded the millennials? I know none of you are personally responsible. The main thing for me is that things are harder than they were then. We should not be regressing. We're losing ground while China and Europe gain ground. We should be widening the gap between us and the rest of the world.
If it's harder, it's because government made it so with things like Minimum Wage. Look to Democrats buying the votes of the people with other peoples money for the cause of the current state of affairs.
I asked Pat Paulson once about younger people struggling to break into the comedy biz, and he said, "F*** 'em. I'm here because I paid my dues, so can they."
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It was pretty hard back when, too. When I was a Disk Jockey in radio, I was always hand-to-mouth.
It still is if you're in a small enough market. I always said I needed my Army retirement to be able to afford to be a DJ.
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BTW, I paid every penny of that degree, nobody gave it to me. Now I am retiring with a clean conscience.
My degree is paid for too. I still want to put future young people ahead. I hope that by the time I leave this Earth young Americans are living in a world that is beyond wonder.
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I read an article not long ago, maybe psted here, about how schools have stopped teaching the difference between fqct and opinion.
A lot less things are literal facts than you might assume. It's important to be able to tell the difference. A lot of times there are multiple takes on reality and you can't really call any one of them factually correct or not.
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My degree is paid for too. I still want to put future young people ahead. I hope that by the time I leave this Earth young people are living in a world that is beyond wonder.
The best way to help young people is to restore the bottom rungs of the financial ladder, not issue them College Degrees paid for by workers that don't have College Degrees.
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You don't understand the struggles of young people as well as you think you do. Things have changed. You could argue that it was just as hard for you, but you absolutely don't know what's it's like to be a young person today. You have not lived their life. All generations struggle, but it comes to finances the millennials are struggling extra hard, and I don't believe it's all their fault.
The key difference is that we SEE what your lives are, and we HEAR what you're saying, and we KNOW how much your generation whines even though it has it easy financially.
All you know of our lives is what you have been told by the socialists who want you to believe their propaganda.
On this thread you are getting actual experiences from people who have struggled in youth in order to succeed later in life, and you are dismissing it all out of hand, and refusing to learn from any of it.
The presumption you have that you know more than all of us, and can ignore our collective experience is problematic. Yes, it proves that you are stubborn in your conviction, but it also seems that you are unteachable when it comes to the reality of what life was like before you were born, or at least cognizant of what was going on.
What I find ironic is that you have only talked about finances, and have not talked about where millennials really have it tough, and that is in fighting the cultural demands to live immoral lives and use alcohol and drugs to maintain some kind of faux happiness, while putting yourselves and your health at great risk.
Culturally, you DO struggle more than we did when America had standards of behavior that made allowed us to be safer and happier.
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It still is if you're in a small enough market. I always said I needed my Army retirement to be able to afford to be a DJ.
Same here. But...now that I've retired I've sorta burned out on music....
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I wouldn't say we're ahead in education, but alright. Let's widen the gap even more then.
Then you aren't paying attention to the advances and discoveries that come out of our colleges and universities.
Yeah, that sucks.
But it was their choice and actions have consequences. If more people were taught that lesson or learned it the hard way we wouldn't have a generation scared of it's own shadow and wanting the government to give them everything without any effort being put forth on their part.
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You don't understand the struggles of young people as well as you think you do. Things have changed. You could argue that it was just as hard for you, but you absolutely don't know what's it's like to be a young person today. You have not lived their life. All generations struggle, but it comes to finances the millennials are struggling extra hard, and I don't believe it's all their fault.
This post sounds eerily similar to a teenager upset that their parents “just don’t understand me.â€
You also seem to very tenaciously hold onto some idea of victimhood.
I’ve worked low-paying jobs. I had a hefty student loan when I got out of college. I had to take a second job while my wife was on her maternity leaves. There were times in my younger years and when I was just starting out that I had to juggle payments and look for deals. I experienced one lay off before I gained enough seniority.
I’m not arguing that young people today have it easy. That would be me sounding like the guy who claims he had to walk through 3 feet of snow in bare feet to get the school when he was young. It’s really never been easy starting in life. In the animal kingdom, when the baby animal leaves his mother, it’s struggles to find food and safety until it learns.
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I asked Pat Paulson once about younger people struggling to break into the comedy biz, and he said, "F*** 'em. I'm here because I paid my dues, so can they."
@Cyber Liberty and therein lies one of the biggest problems we see today. In a society where everyone gets a trophy and no one loses and everyone is a "winner"...no one is willing to pay their dues in order to gain success. No one is willing to start in the mail room anymore. They automatically want the corner office on the top floor.
Because they think they deserve it.
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@musiclady Nicely said.
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You don't understand the struggles of young people as well as you think you do. Things have changed. You could argue that it was just as hard for you, but you absolutely don't know what's it's like to be a young person today. You have not lived their life. All generations struggle, but it comes to finances the millennials are struggling extra hard, and I don't believe it's all their fault.
There it is.
Millennial butthurt.
No one EVER can have any idea how HARD it is to be a millennial.
We can't possibly understand. We are too old.
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A lot of Europeans admire us and our greatness, but I don't think most of them would move here. The average person has a much better time over there.
Interesting. My relatives come over regularly and enjoy it. They also have great praise for our medical establishment, having actually used it and know what they are talking about.
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We are too old.
I won't argue with that, nor will my achy knees.
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@musiclady Nicely said.
Indeed it was.
@musiclady You speak to the "Poverty of the Soul." People who want to throw the SoCons out of the Party don't want to hear it. 888mouth
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Your vision of a “better place†may be a lot different than someone else’s. Never assume you know what’s best for individuals
The American economy is the largest in the world. In fact, we drive the world economy. We lead the world in healthcare research and innovation. Our “poor†are the envy of the world. In fact, we still have enough capitalism that the market can meet many of the needs of the poor
Yes, well said. Do you know how ignorantly arrogant that comes off as, @Dexter? Not ragging on you, just trying to give you some insight.
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@musiclady Nicely said.
I agree. However, I guess it is natural for young people of every generation to believe they just have at the toughest.
I can’t imagine what it was like to come of age during the Depression and then at the start of World War II. I would think that that generation of young people had it the worst
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The main thing for me is that things are harder than they were then.
No, they are not.
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We are too old.
Speak for yourself :tongue2:
I’m not getting older. I’m getting more distinguished, better, and a little bit more experienced and wealthier. But never never older
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No, they are not.
https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-lives-compared-to-gen-x-baby-boomers-did-2018-3#millennials-are-less-financially-stable-than-previous-generations-were-1 (https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-lives-compared-to-gen-x-baby-boomers-did-2018-3#millennials-are-less-financially-stable-than-previous-generations-were-1)
They are absolutely struggling more financially.
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I agree. However, I guess it is natural for young people of every generation to believe they just have at the toughest.
I can’t imagine what it was like to come of age during the Depression and then at the start of World War II. I would think that that generation of young people had it the worst
That would be my parents, for whom a Christmas stocking with an orange and a few walnuts inside was a treat.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-lives-compared-to-gen-x-baby-boomers-did-2018-3#millennials-are-less-financially-stable-than-previous-generations-were-1 (https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-lives-compared-to-gen-x-baby-boomers-did-2018-3#millennials-are-less-financially-stable-than-previous-generations-were-1)
They are absolutely struggling more financially.
That means nothing. You are buying into bullshit.
There is nothing stopping you, personally, from becoming successful.
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There is nothing stopping you, personally, from becoming successful.
Nothing has. That doesn't mean things aren't more difficult financially.
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Nothing has. That doesn't things aren't more difficult financially.
But, the difficulties are mostly attitudinal.
Hey, did you see my question above? http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,341573.msg1854064.html#msg1854064 (http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,341573.msg1854064.html#msg1854064) @Dexter Waiting for your answer.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-lives-compared-to-gen-x-baby-boomers-did-2018-3#millennials-are-less-financially-stable-than-previous-generations-were-1 (https://www.businessinsider.com/millennials-lives-compared-to-gen-x-baby-boomers-did-2018-3#millennials-are-less-financially-stable-than-previous-generations-were-1)
They are absolutely struggling more financially.
Then restore the rungs of the ladder that have been cut off, don't give people free stuff. A solution I would not expect to find at BI. Try Investors Business Daily for a change.
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Interesting. My relatives come over regularly and enjoy it. They also have great praise for our medical establishment, having actually used it and know what they are talking about.
Why don't they stay? European countries have an incredibly high rate of approval of their healthcare. It's still my opinion that healthcare here is only the best in the world if you're wealthy. If it sucked over there they wouldn't have so many happy people. There are always anecdotes, but according to the stats they are doing great.
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Nothing has. That doesn't mean things aren't more difficult financially.
Nah. Victimhood. Bullshit. Stop with the victim nonsense and pull on your boots and go make something of yourself.
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Why don't they stay? European countries have an incredibly high rate of approval of their healthcare. It's still my opinion that healthcare here is only the best in the world if you're wealthy. If it sucked over there they wouldn't have so many happy people. There are always anecdotes, but according to the stats they are doing great.
They don't move because their old friends, kids and grandkids are over there. They do complain a lot about conditions there though.
And, I'm not talking mere anecdotes; I'm talking real people with firsthand knowledge.
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Speak for yourself :tongue2:
I’m not getting older. I’m getting more distinguished, better, and a little bit more experienced and wealthier. But never never older
I was born crotchety. Now get off my lawn!
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Nothing has. That doesn't mean things aren't more difficult financially.
Oh FFS. Still with the whining about how unfair life is. Fine, life is unfair, your generation is bleep and no one older than 35 gives a bleep about y'all.
Do we all feel better now? I know I do.
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Speak for yourself :tongue2:
I’m not getting older. I’m getting more distinguished, better, and a little bit more experienced and wealthier. But never never older
Yeah, that works so long as you can hold your mud...
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Oh FFS. Still with the whining about how unfair life is. Fine, life is unfair, your generation is bleep and no one older than 35 gives a bleep about y'all.
Do we all feel better now? I know I do.
#MeToo.
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Fine, life is unfair, your generation is bleep and no one older than 35 gives a bleep about y'all.
Do we all feel better now? I know I do.
I accept this position. At least you're being consistent.
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I accept this position. At least you're being consistent.
I've learned through life that the only financial situation I can afford to care about is my own. That, too is consistent.
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From what I've seen, I think you turned it pretty well! 888high58888
@Cyber Liberty
Well,there may have been a few bumps in the road,but thanks!
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I accept this position. At least you're being consistent.
Everything I've told you has been consistent, you just choose not to put value in the things that don't agree with your own admittedly liberal (though somewhat less than before) outlook on things. Sorry mommy and daddy didn't fill you in that life is unfair and that you had to hear it from a stranger, but I am ever so glad that stranger was me.
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I've learned through life that the only financial situation I can afford to care about is my own. That, too is consistent.
You might be too old to benefit now, but a lot of people that are like the young you would benefit a lot from a lot of what I'm talking about. How many of you personally know young Americans that would have it a lot easier if they didn't have to worry about health insurance and student loan debt? These things would elevate all young Americans if done right, and I think if we didn't waste so much money we could do it all without even raising your taxes. Having the highest average quality of life is what makes a country the greatest in the world in my opinion. We could be the greatest at everything if we wanted to, if we were willing to do what it takes.
And before you start complaining about the Democrats, you're right. They're bought and paid for corporate trash that lacks a single shred of true nationalism. They hide their corruption behind the guise of wanting to help people. The problem is we don't have a party that actually gives a damn about Americans.
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Everything I've told you has been consistent, you just choose not to put value in the things that don't agree with your own admittedly liberal (though somewhat less than before) outlook on things. Sorry mommy and daddy didn't fill you in that life is unfair and that you had to hear it from a stranger, but I am ever so glad that stranger was me.
The greatest country in the history of the world could make life less unfair for its average citizen if it wanted to.
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You might be too old to benefit now, but a lot of people that are like the young you would benefit a lot from a lot of what I'm talking about. How many of you don't personally know young Americans that would have it a lot easier if they didn't have to worry about health insurance and student loan debt? These things would elevate all young Americans if done right, and I think if we didn't waste so much money we could do it all without even raising your taxes. Having the highest average quality of life is what makes a country the greatest in the world in my opinion. We could be the greatest at everything if we wanted to, if we were willing to do what it takes.
And before you start complaining about the Democrats, you're right. They're bought and paid for corporate trash that lacks a single shred of true nationalism. They hide their corruption behind the guise of wanting to help people. The problem is we don't have a party that actually gives a damn about Americans.
I'll speak for most everyone here and say We don't want the gov't fingers into our healthcare or anymore of our schooling. Everything they touch with very few exceptions, turns to crap.
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The greatest country in the history of the world could make life less unfair for its average citizen if it wanted to.
Bullshit. That's not the government's job. More gov't means more things bleep up. The 8 years of Obama regulations should prove that to you.
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The greatest country in the history of the world could make life less unfair for its average citizen if it wanted to.
Fair is equal opportunity, not equal results.
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@Cyber Liberty
Well,there may have been a few bumps in the road,but thanks!
Everybody has bumps. "Character" is how one overcomes them.
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Everything they touch with very few exceptions, turns to crap.
That's because we let it be corrupt and stupid. I REFUSE to believe that in the United States we can't do better.
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The greatest country in the history of the world could make life less unfair for its average citizen if it wanted to.
HOLEEEEE CRAP!!! Do you listen to yourself?
Life IS unfair. Life will never BE fair. It isn't supposed to be fair.
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Fair is equal opportunity, not equal results.
We can create more opportunities for more people but we'd rather defend Europe so they can have all of the shit AMERICANS should have. We saved the world with our might and our blood. We are the greatest. What the bleep is going on?
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That's because we let it be corrupt and stupid. I REFUSE to believe that in the United States we can't do better.
This is another argument for the reason that communism hasn't worked in the past is because the right people weren't in charge. It's nonsense.
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HOLEEEEE CRAP!!! Do you listen to yourself?
Life IS unfair. Life will never BE fair. It isn't supposed to be fair.
We can make life easier for young Americans; we really can.
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The greatest country in the history of the world could make life less unfair for its average citizen if it wanted to.
I'd agree with you, if you understood "fair" to be equality of opportunity, not equality of results. Results are earned, not given. I don't expect you to agree with that yet. Someday. You have all the tools required, chief among them intelligence.
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We can make life easier for young Americans; we really can.
We can if we understand that part about the rungs of the ladder I keep blathering on about. Other than that, no we can't.
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This is another argument for the reason that communism hasn't worked in the past is because the right people weren't in charge. It's nonsense.
If we had actually good safeguards it would be possible to mitigate the corrupt human element. This is not the absolute best we can do. You don't really believe that we can't do better, right?
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We can create more opportunities for more people but we'd rather defend Europe so they can have all of the shit AMERICANS should have. We saved the world with our might and our blood. We are the greatest. What the bleep is going on?
Have you ever read anything about the past isolationist policies of the US?
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I'd agree with you, if you understood "fair" to be equality of opportunity, not equality of results. Results are earned, not given. I don't expect you to agree with that yet. Someday. You have all the tools required, chief among them intelligence.
If the government took the money it wastes in Europe and used it to put young Americans through college it would be a benefit to our country. They're going to take your money anyway. Americans should be benefiting from the forced charity.
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If we had actually good safeguards it would be possible to mitigate the corrupt human element. This is not the absolute best we can do. You don't really believe that we can't do better, right?
I agree better is possible. I do not agree with your idea of what better is.
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That's because we let it be corrupt and stupid. I REFUSE to believe that in the United States we can't do better.
So your idea is to give them MORE money and MORE power...
Yeah that ALWAYS makes it less corrupt.
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We can if we understand that part about the rungs of the ladder I keep blathering on about. Other than that, no we can't.
I think some kind of compromise between what you think and what I think would be good for young Americans.
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If we had actually good safeguards it would be possible to mitigate the corrupt human element. This is not the absolute best we can do. You don't really believe that we can't do better, right?
Better is LESS, not more.
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If we had actually good safeguards it would be possible to mitigate the corrupt human element. This is not the absolute best we can do. You don't really believe that we can't do better, right?
We have safeguards, they're written in the Constitution. Liberals don't like them because they prevent them from running roughshod over a minority of the voters. It's the continued attempts to tear those down so we can have socialism I'm opposed to.
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So your idea is to give them MORE money and MORE power...
Absolutely not! My idea is to make them our bitch and force them to use the money they already have on things that will benefit our nation. I bet we could do all of that and lower taxes.
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If we had actually good safeguards it would be possible to mitigate the corrupt human element.
The Soviet Union had safeguards, they were called "Gulags".
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We can make life easier for young Americans; we really can.
We've made it too easy. That's the problem you don't seem to comprehend.
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I think some kind of compromise between what you think and what I think would be good for young Americans.
Sure, if compromise means no more "free shit" that is paid for by taxpayers. So far, compromise with the left just means more movement to the left.
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Well it’s time to go and enjoy some of my privileged life and everything that needs to be said has already been said over and over here. But in closing, it is true there are challenges facing millennial’s. They are coming of age in a country with an unsustainable debt that will only get worse especially as interest rates rise that will put pressure on them starting out in life. They’re also entering the job market was more automation versus manpower, although more of the effects of that will be exacerbated with wrongheaded government policies like more taxes on businesses and $15 an hour minimum wage increases. And they’re coming of age where there’s just simply not enough of them to pay for all the promises made to us “more distinguished and experienced†people
But if they put their hopes in government to make it all better for them, I think they’re in for a long and sad life. Inner-city blacks and reservation Indians have been doing that for over 50 years. When left alone, with laws only in place to protect you from the evil of others , and without a government that picks winners snd losers in an economy, history has shown people thrive
And what one considers a waste of federal dollars to someone else is a necessary and beneficial use
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The Soviet Union had safeguards, they were called "Gulags".
We're smarter and better looking than they are. We're not going to turn into the Soviet Union by trying to give our young people more advantages.
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Absolutely not! My idea is to make them our bitch and force them to use the money they already have on things that will benefit our nation. I bet we could do all of that and lower taxes.
OK, I liked that... :laugh: :police:
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Absolutely not! My idea is to make them our bitch and force them to use the money they already have on things that will benefit our nation. I bet we could do all of that and lower taxes.
You are dreaming. The government big enough to give you what you want has too much power to be your bitch.
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We're smarter and better looking than they are. We're not going to turn into the Soviet Union by trying to give our young people more advantages.
Remove the word "give" and replace it with "make available to" and I'm there.
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Sure, if compromise means no more "free shit" that is paid for by taxpayers. So far, compromise with the left just means more movement to the left.
To me conservatism is about minimizing the money you spend by cutting out the bullshit and prioritizing things that will really make a difference. The money is there. Our government is wasting it.
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You are dreaming. The government big enough to give you what you want has too much power to be your bitch.
We can make it more our bitch than it is currently. We can do better than this.
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The money is there.
No it isn't.
Our government is wasting it.
Yes it is.
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We can make it more our bitch than it is currently. We can do better than this.
No we can't.
Not the way you want it.
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Why don't they stay? European countries have an incredibly high rate of approval of their healthcare. It's still my opinion that healthcare here is only the best in the world if you're wealthy. If it sucked over there they wouldn't have so many happy people. There are always anecdotes, but according to the stats they are doing great.
In my experience, the swedes are conditioned to be happy with less, on many levels. Although they sneer at nationalism, they have swallowed their government's propaganda about World's Best _____ and will swear by it regardless. Some towns boast the "world's finest tap water." Yah, OK it's water. My sis was a nurse here and moved there after marrying a swede. Their medical system isn't bad, but the services here are generally quicker and far more focused on quality of outcome. Swedes are more focused on an equitable distribution of resources.
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In my experience, the swedes are conditioned to be happy with less, on many levels. Although they sneer at nationalism, they have swallowed their government's propaganda about World's Best _____ and will swear by it regardless. Some towns boast the "world's finest tap water." Yah, OK it's water. My sis was a nurse here and moved there after marrying a swede. Their medical system isn't bad, but the services here are generally quicker and far more focused on quality of outcome. Swedes are more focused on an equitable distribution of resources.
The Swedes aren't the only ones. We have plenty "Third Way" people right here.
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In my experience, the swedes are conditioned to be happy with less, on many levels. Although they sneer at nationalism, they have swallowed their government's propaganda about World's Best _____ and will swear by it regardless. Some towns boast the "world's finest tap water." Yah, OK it's water. My sis was a nurse here and moved there after marrying a swede. Their medical system isn't bad, but the services here are generally quicker and far more focused on quality of outcome. Swedes are more focused on an equitable distribution of resources.
Let's see if @Dexter replies to this. He has a habit of ignoring inconvenient true arguments and addressing other arguments for which he has his leftist talking points.
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Let's see if @Dexter replies to this. He has a habit of ignoring inconvenient true arguments and addressing other arguments for which he has his leftist talking points.
:2popcorn: 888mouth
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In my experience, the swedes are conditioned to be happy with less, on many levels. Although they sneer at nationalism, they have swallowed their government's propaganda about World's Best _____ and will swear by it regardless. Some towns boast the "world's finest tap water." Yah, OK it's water. My sis was a nurse here and moved there after marrying a swede. Their medical system isn't bad, but the services here are generally quicker and far more focused on quality of outcome. Swedes are more focused on an equitable distribution of resources.
You can get anything you want here as soon as you need it if you have money and connections. The vast majority of people don't have an incredible amount of either of those things. Thank you for recognizing that their public healthcare option is at least decent. By the way they have ways of measuring the quality of that tap water; they're not just running their mouths. The statistics tell us that they are happier, healthier and better educated on average. I'm not content with that. We should be number one.
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The greatest country in the history of the world could make life less unfair for its average citizen if it wanted to.
👏Life👏is👏not👏fair👏.
Nobody and nothing can control, manipulate, or legislate otherwise. I DO NOT want any government entity attempting to do so.
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👏Life👏is👏not👏fair👏.
Nobody and nothing can control, manipulate, or legislate otherwise. I DO NOT want any government entity attempting to do so.
I think the average millennial would be a lot less stressed out and would have much better overall mental health if some of what I'm talking about were implemented. We don't have a more precious resource than the youngest among us. They are everything. How much they do or don't succeed will make waves in the future of our country.
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To me conservatism is about minimizing the money you spend by cutting out the bullshit and prioritizing things that will really make a difference. The money is there. Our government is wasting it.
No, conservatism is about adhering to the Constitution.
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I think the average millennial would be a lot less stressed out and would have much better overall mental health if some of what I'm talking about were implemented. We don't have a more precious resource than the youngest among us. They are everything. How much they do or don't succeed will make waves in the future of our country.
If more money would relieve their stress, they don’t suffer from real stress. They suffer from being spoiled.
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@Dexter If you want to accomplish that by trampling my Liberty, you can count on my resistance.
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@Dexter If you want to accomplish that by trampling my Liberty, you can count on my resistance.
I want every last one of you to live out your days in comfort and with dignity. You're my American predecessors and you all deserve at least that in the greatest country on Earth. I think it's ridiculous that so many of you have to worry about going bankrupt over medical expenses. I think it's outrageous and insulting that after all of the hard work you all put into making this country great your grandchildren have to struggle as much as they do. What in the hell was all of that hard work for anyway? Not just yourselves, right? I think most of you were working for the people that you love as well. I know I am. This is bull shit, all of it. We can do better than this and we should do better than this. No more subsidizing the comfort of the rest of the world. It's time for Americans to get a piece.
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I want every last one of you to live out your days in comfort and with dignity. You're my American predecessors and you all deserve at least that in the greatest country on Earth. I think it's ridiculous that so many of you have to worry about going bankrupt over medical expenses. I think it's outrageous and insulting that after all of the hard work you all put into making this country great your grandchildren have to struggle as much as they do. What in the hell was all of that hard work for anyway? Not just yourselves, right? I think most of you were working for the people that you love as well. I know I am. This is bull shit, all of it. We can do better than this and we should do better than this. No more subsidizing the comfort of the rest of the world. It's time for Americans to get a piece.
I worked to give my children and grandchildren liberty, not healthcare.
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I'm more afraid of my nest egg being plundered by big government than I am about it being wiped out for healthcare. I spend lotsa bucks on Health Insurance to protect me from that, always have. I was mighty glad I did when it came time for the bilateral hip replacements.
I have reason to fear when I hear things like "You have enough in your 401K" (Obastard said that) or "It's not fair Bill Gates gets to collect Social Security" (says about every leftist, everywhere). Say that's unfair about Bill Gates and out comes the can of whoop-ass I'll open.
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Socialist sure do love the word "we" when they're talking about spending OPM.
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I worked to give my children and grandchildren liberty, not healthcare.
They need both, and I really believe they can have both.
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Socialist sure do love the word "we"
Nationalists do too.
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I'm more afraid of my nest egg being plundered by big government than I am about it being wiped out for healthcare. I spend lotsa bucks on Health Insurance to protect me from that, always have. I was mighty glad I did when it came time for the bilateral hip replacements.
I have reason to fear when I hear things like "You have enough in your 401K" (Obstard said that) or "It's not fair Bill Gates gets to collect Social Security" (says about every leftist, everywhere). Say that's unfair about Bill Gates and out comes the can of whoop-ass I'll open.
Anybody that would even consider plundering your nest egg disgusts me.
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Anybody that would even consider plundering your nest egg disgusts me.
I believe you there, I really do. You don't sound like a looter. What I question is your experience to see that would be the end result.
Thing is, calls for extra spending (on anything) require funding, and there are unscrupulous people who would not bat an eye looting me to buy votes from somebody else. It's one thing to say you don't want to plunder, but it's another to propose big spending that will inevitably lead to that plunder.
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Anybody that would even consider plundering your nest egg disgusts me.
What do you think Liberals and Socialists will do in order to fund the utopia you believe we should all live in?
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They need both, and I really believe they can have both.
What you really believe is not true.
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What do you think Liberals and Socialists will do in order to fund the utopia you believe we should all live in?
They should start by no longer funding the defense and utopia of other nations. The government takes a whole hell of a lot of our money already. I don't think we're getting enough for it. It's a bad investment. I'm advocating for better investment of the money they already take.
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They need both, and I really believe they can have both.
Government provided healthcare is the antithesis of Liberty. Both cannot coexist in a single space.
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Government provided healthcare is the antithesis of Liberty. Both cannot coexist in a single space.
I think because of less financial burdens a lot of people in Europe experience more liberty than the people here in the states.
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They should start by no longer funding the defense and utopia of other nations. The government takes a whole hell of a lot of our money already. I don't think we're getting enough for it. It's a bad investment. I'm advocating for better investment of the money they already take.
Government spending is inherently a bottomless pit. There is never enough of it when there are votes to purchase with OPM. What we ship off to other countries is a very small fraction of what we waste paying people to be idle.
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I think because of less financial burdens a lot of people in Europe experience more liberty than the people here in the states.
Sounds good on paper, but sucks in reality when your hip-replacement to treat AVN is wait-listed for over a year. You have no idea how much AVN stings. Or when the government decides you're too old to be productive and can't have a procedure done (even if you are willing to fork over the money yourself). That's not Liberty, it's murder. Get your mind out of the wallet, there's more to Liberty than not being plundered.
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The government takes a whole hell of a lot of our money already. I don't think we're getting enough for it.
I don't think they should take it in the first place.
It's a bad investment.
Damn straight. And it always will be.
I'm advocating for better investment of the money they already take.
The best investment is to not give it to them in the first place.
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Government spending is inherently a bottomless pit. There is never enough of it when there are votes to purchase with OPM. What we ship off to other countries is a very small fraction of what we waste paying people to be idle.
How much money do you suppose gets wasted on foreign meddling? The 60-100 billion we give away annually is just icing on the cake. How much do we spend on keeping a military presence in Europe? How much do we spend on trying to play police and clean up in third world countries? If we stopped flushing our money down the toilet there would be more than enough to pay for public college and healthcare.
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They should start by no longer funding the defense and utopia of other nations.
We are currently doing neither. We are barely able to fund our own military and it needs more money than what it's getting to correct the destruction Obama wrought on us for 8 years.
And I think I know the answer...but just out of curiosity...what other nations utopia are we funding?
The government takes a whole hell of a lot of our money already. I don't think we're getting enough for it. It's a bad investment. I'm advocating for better investment of the money they already take.
You're advocating for more money tossed at social welfare programs and that right now is tossing good money after bad.
Before more money is given...the people who make a living of of nothing but welfare need to be purged from the dole.
There are states where the total of a person's benefits they receive...if they do nothing but live off the public dole...are more than I make as a 20 year veteran of the military every year.
And that kind of largess is generational in or country. People learn from their elders who learned from their elders how to play the system and live very comfortably as long as you do nothing but live off of welfare.
THAT needs to end before anything else goes forward
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I don't think they should take it in the first place.
That's not an option. We need to work within the confines of the real world.
Damn straight. And it always will be.
The best investment is to not give it to them in the first place.
They will not stop under any party, ever.
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How much money do you suppose gets wasted on foreign meddling? The 60-100 billion we give away annually is just icing on the cake. How much do we spend on keeping a military presence in Europe? How much do we spend on trying to place police and clean up in third world countries? If we stopped flushing our money down the toilet there would be more than enough to pay for public college and healthcare.
I don't know. I'll bet it's small compared to close to a Trillion dollars, though. The demand for the free shit you propose would outstrip the money saved on Foreign Aid in less than a year when the appropriators get their hands on it.
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I think because of less financial burdens a lot of people in Europe experience more liberty than the people here in the states.
Then you should work to go over there and participate. Really, you should. If it is a better system, then go live under it and be free.
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We are currently doing neither. We are barely able to fund our own military and it needs more money than what it's getting to correct the destruction Obama wrought on us for 8 years.
Are you kidding me? Obama is an bleep, but the notion that our military is hurting right now is preposterous. Want to strengthen America and save a ton of money at the same time? Bring all of our toys home and build a giant wall. I don't think a lot of people really grasp just how ridiculously powerful our military is. We could also make massive spending cuts without hindering the effectiveness of our military. Congress regularly approves funding for hardware the military doesn't even need/want.
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That's not an option. We need to work within the confines of the real world.
They will not stop under any party, ever.
The real world says government needs to be small. As long as you think your side can run it better, you are no different than those that are in there now... And predictably so.
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How much money do you suppose gets wasted on foreign meddling? The 60-100 billion we give away annually is just icing on the cake. How much do we spend on keeping a military presence in Europe? How much do we spend on trying to place police and clean up in third world countries? If we stopped flushing our money down the toilet there would be more than enough to pay for public college and healthcare.
21% of the GDP of the United States is spend on welfare and social programs.
3.5% of the GDP of the United States is spend on the military.
0.18% of our GDP is spent on foreign aid. We are number 22 out of 28 nations as ranked by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD)
So don't sit there and lecture us that we spend more on foreign aid and military than we do on socialist welfare schemes. It's just not true.
The facts show you are incorrect in your false accusations.
If you actually did your own research and didn't just rely on left wing propaganda you wouldn't continually embarrass yourself on this subject.
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Then you should work to go over there and participate. Really, you should. If it is a better system, then go live under it and be free.
I want us to do what they're doing better than they do because we're America and we should be the greatest.
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Obama is an bleep, but the notion that our military is hurting right now is preposterous.
Just so you know, those are fighting words to the fellow who's post it is to which you are responding.
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I want us to do what they're doing better than they do because we're America and we should be the greatest.
America did not become the greatest by copying other countries, and it's not going to start now.
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21% of the GDP of the United States is spend on welfare and social programs.
3.5% of the GDP of the United States is spend on the military.
0.18% of our GDP is spent on foreign aid. We are number 22 out of 28 nations as ranked by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD)
So don't sit there and lecture us that we spend more on foreign aid and military than we do on socialist welfare schemes. It's just not true.
The facts show you are incorrect in your false accusations.
If you actually did your own research and didn't just rely on left wing propaganda you wouldn't continually embarrass yourself on this subject.
Public university and healthcare is not unobtainable in the greatest country on Earth, especially if we find ways to cut off large amounts of current waste.
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My parents grew up during the Depression and even though my Dad was a medical professional, we never wasted ANYTHING, nor spent money on things we didn't need. We were the last people in the neighborhood with a TV (the Cleveland Browns and Indians broke my Dad, and he bought a nice Philco in 1955 so he could watch the games. happy77).
Something about a heritage of people who didn't have much helps you appreciate things more than most. The problem came when some of those Depression raised parents said, "My kids aren't going to want for anything," and so many Boomers were spoiled and spoiled their kids even worse.
I have always been thankful that my parents and my husband's parents bucked the trend and made us work and appreciate what we had.
"so many Boomers were spoiled"
Are you a Boomer?
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America did not become the greatest by copying other countries, and it's not going to start now.
They had a good idea. Big deal. We could do it way better if we wanted to.
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Are you kidding me? Obama is an bleep, but the notion that our military is hurting right now is preposterous.
No what is preposterous is your stupid belief that we aren't hurting.
We don't have enough ships to do even basic convoy duty. Aircraft fall out of the sky because of stretched maintenance schedules and lack of money.
We have submarines that are in such need of repair that they've lost their dive certifications.
The aircraft that are flying in a lot of cases are kept that way because mechanics are taking parts from museum displays of the same aircraft cannibalizing airplanes in the military bone yard in Arizona.
Our Army is at it's lowest manpower strength level since the interwar years of the 1920's.
The Air Force doesn't have enough pilots to fly the aircraft they have because whole year groups of 2nd Lieutenants...the base level of officer pilots were sent packing from the military because of sequestration and the Obama administration not passing a formal budget for 9 years....something that was done on purpose.
The pilots that have stayed are flying longer hours with less time off and less rest to keep up with the demand.
The United States Marine Corps active duty strength is less than the population of Lubbock, Texas.
Unless you've truly studied the current state of our Armed Forces...I suggest you STFU and do some real research before you broach this subject again.
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They had a good idea. Big deal. We could do it way better if we wanted to.
It isn't a good idea. It WILL fail them.
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They had a good idea. Big deal. We could do it way better if we wanted to.
I don't think they're doing a good enough job of it to use their example. See my complaints abut government-provided healthcare above.
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No what is preposterous is your stupid belief that we aren't hurting.
We don't have enough ships to do even basic convoy duty. Aircraft fall out of the sky because of stretched maintenance schedules and lack of money.
We have submarines that are in such need of repair that they've lost their dive certifications.
The aircraft that are flying in a lot of cases are kept that way because mechanics are taking parts from museum displays of the same aircraft cannibalizing airplanes in the military bone yard in Arizona.
Our Army is at it's lowest manpower strength level since the interwar years of the 1920's.
The Air Force doesn't have enough pilots to fly the aircraft they have because whole year groups of 2nd Lieutenants...the base level of officer pilots were sent packing from the military because of sequestration and the Obama administration not passing a formal budget for 9 years....something that was done on purpose.
The pilots that have stayed are flying longer hours with less time off and less rest to keep up with the demand.
The United States Marine Corps active duty strength is less than the population of Lubbock, Texas.
Unless you've truly studied the current state of our Armed Forces...I suggest you STFU and do some real research before you broach this subject again.
Who do you think even comes close? China has one aircraft carrier. A decade ago they made their very first stealth fighter. Russia just broke their one aircraft carrier. Their country has a smaller GDP than New York City.
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It isn't a good idea. It WILL fail them.
Perzackly.
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Public university and healthcare is not unobtainable in the greatest country on Earth, especially if we find ways to cut off large amounts of current waste.
So I guess you're just gonna ignore the fact I blew your theory about how we give more foreign aid and spend more on our military than we spend on welfare right out of the water.
Typical...
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It isn't a good idea. It WILL fail them.
It looks sustainable for now.
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So I guess you're just gonna ignore the fact I blew your theory about how we give more foreign aid and spend more on our military than we spend on welfare right out of the water.
Typical...
That doesn't mean we shouldn't have public college and healthcare, or at least do the best we can. We could free up incredible amounts of money if we weren't so wasteful and I think you know it.
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It looks sustainable for now.
I highlighted the key word in your assertion.
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I highlighted the key word in your assertion.
Any other assertion would be based on less evidence.
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Who do you think even comes close? China has one aircraft carrier. A decade ago they made their very first stealth fighter. Russia just broke their one aircraft carrier. Their country has a smaller GDP than New York City.
Russia and China have both completely revamped expanded and upgraded their forces in the 8 years that Obama destroyed ours.
China has been illegally expanding it's "territorial waters" in some cases up to almost 1000 miles off shore. They are building islands with military installations in the Spratley's where they have no business being.
They are developing 5th generation fighters off of stolen technology from our defense contractors and upgrading their air and naval aviation fleets faster than we are.
Russia has illegally taken over the Crimea as well as a big chunk of the Ukraine. They have more forces on the Russian border with Ukraine...front line divisions with front line new technology equipment...than we have in Europe if we emptied every soldier out of every building on the European Continent and put them in a foxhole with a rifle.
And you want to talk about aircraft carriers? *****rollingeyes*****
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That doesn't mean we shouldn't have public college and healthcare, or at least do the best we can. We could free up incredible amounts of money if we weren't so wasteful and I think you know it.
Meanwhile, you ignored my assertion that no amount of cash is adequate when it's spent on paying people to be idle. I don't think you know that, but someday you will.
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That doesn't mean we shouldn't have public college and healthcare, or at least do the best we can. We could free up incredible amounts of money if we weren't so wasteful and I think you know it.
The problem is...and again you ignore it...the wasteful spending...the REAL wasteful spending...the fraud waste and abuse is coming from the exact area you say we need to spend MORE on. You want to toss good money after bad.
As for colleges...there are already a plethora of ways for low income students to attend institutions of higher learning without the Government coming in and doing what you propose.
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Meanwhile, you ignored my assertion that no amount of cash is adequate when it's spent on paying people to be idle. I don't think you know that, but someday you will.
I don't think removing the stress of insurance costs and college debt would encourage people to be idle.
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Any other assertion would be based on less evidence.
I would be remiss if I did not mention Cuba's and Venezuela's socialism looked good too, right up to the riots over food and toilet paper.
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I don't think removing the stress of insurance costs and college debt would encourage people to be idle.
That statement betrays your utter lack of understanding of human nature.
ETA: And your refusal to believe what you've been told in these 450 posts.
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It looks sustainable for now.
So did Venezuela.
The problem is that folks never get sick of more free stuff. And sooner or later you run put of other people's money. Bet on it. It will happen every time. You are advocating for the only thing that can and will bring America down.
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We shouldn't be regressing. This is America and it's the year 2018. Our young people should have more opportunity for success than any other young people in the world, but they don't.
"This is America and it's the year 2018. Our young people should have more opportunity for success than any other young people in the world, but they don't"
And you know this how?
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The problem is...and again you ignore it...the wasteful spending...the REAL wasteful spending...the fraud waste and abuse is coming from the exact area you say we need to spend MORE on. You want to toss good money after bad.
As for colleges...there are already a plethora of ways for low income students to attend institutions of higher learning without the Government coming in and doing what you propose.
I'd be all about optimizing the money we already spend on welfare. Nobody should get a free ride through life, but I think public university and healthcare is not a free ride through life. I think those things will strengthen our nation.
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I don't think removing the stress of insurance costs and college debt would encourage people to be idle.
You aren't removing anything. You are shifting it onto someone else.
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I would be remiss if I did not mention Cuba's and Venezuela's socialism looked good too, right up to the riots over food and toilet paper.
It's not realistic to compare the Scandinavian countries to Cuba and Venezuela. It's not the same. Scandinavian countries are about capitalism. They're not destroying the private sector or free market.
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You aren't removing anything. You are shifting it onto someone else.
I know I'd be pretty stressed out if the government told me I couldn't have had those hips replaced because I'm retired now, and not contributing fiscally.
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You aren't removing anything. You are shifting it onto someone else.
If our government wasn't such garbage and could be forced to use funds more effectively on things that actually help Americans I would be glad to know some of my taxed income went towards helping your young relatives get ahead so America can continue to be the envy of the world. I respect your opinion if you disagree that things should work that way, but I don't think anybody that thinks like you do should claim to be a nationalist.
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I know I'd be pretty stressed out if the government told me I couldn't have had those hips replaced because I'm retired now, and not contributing fiscally.
The government should value you enough as an American to never consider such a thing. Old Americans should be respected and cared for.
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We should also build a giant ass wall and kick out all of the poor foreigners so only Americans have access to the cool shit we do.
"We should also build a giant ass wall and kick out all of the poor foreigners so only Americans have access to the cool shit we do."
Yes....and what's your point?
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Yes....and what's your point?
We should be the best at everything. To hell with the interests and need of other nations. We should focus inward and do everything we can to ensure American dominance.
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I'd be all about optimizing the money we already spend on welfare. Nobody should get a free ride through life, but I think public university and healthcare is not a free ride through life. I think those things will strengthen our nation.
Please tell me you're not really so obtuse to the point that you don't comprehend that what you're advocating for IS giving people a free ride through life.
How is not paying for college not giving someone a "free ride"? You know what prospective students call a full scholarship to college? it's referred to as exactly what you say you don't want to give them "A Free Ride".
Giving everyone a free college education takes away the incentive for people to try in High School.
Why get good grades or be a star athlete if you get your college paid for simply because you're alive?
You are advocating for programs that will disincentivize people to try...to go above and beyond and to challenge themselves.
There won't be any motivation to push ones self and stretch ones limits under what you propose for school.
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If the government took the money it wastes in Europe and used it to put young Americans through college it would be a benefit to our country. They're going to take your money anyway. Americans should be benefiting from the forced charity.
@Dexter
Yeah,causen eberbodie wans too go to college,huh? Din wezeuns kin hire dim brown foks frum Mexeko to du de dummie wurk,lak bildin hoses to lib in,fix are condituners,etc,etc,etc,huh?
We already have college graduates that can't read or write,what more do you want?
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Please tell me you're not really so obtuse to the point that you don't comprehend that what you're advocating for IS giving people a free ride through life.
How is not paying for college not giving someone a "free ride"? You know what prospective students call a full scholarship to college? it's referred to as exactly what you say you don't want to give them "A Free Ride".
Giving everyone a free college education takes away the incentive for people to try in High School.
Why get good grades or be a star athlete if you get your college paid for simply because you're alive?
You are advocating for programs that will disincentivize people to try...to go above and beyond and to challenge themselves.
There won't be any motivation to push ones self and stretch ones limits under what you propose for school.
Why do so many countries with a public option for university have a higher average level of education if public school removes the incentive for learning? A free ride would be never needing to do anything but sit on your ass. That's not what I'm advocating.
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We already have college graduates that can't read or write,what more do you want?
Yeah, our education system is in shambles. We should look to countries that are doing it better and then do it even better than they do.
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It's not realistic to compare the Scandinavian countries to Cuba and Venezuela. It's not the same. Scandinavian countries are about capitalism. They're not destroying the private sector or free market.
You can't have it both ways. Socialism is socialism, and I sure can compare the Scandinavians with the Cubans. I've been alive too long to not see it.
I would not want a Scandinavian style healthcare system, I have repeatedly said so, but you are willing to force it upon me "for my own good."
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"for my own good."
For the good of the nation we live in. I want Americans to have a higher standard of living than anybody else in the world.
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We're smarter and better looking than they are. We're not going to turn into the Soviet Union by trying to give our young people more advantages.
@Dexter
Never been to Russia or met and talked with any educated Russians,have you?
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For the good of the nation we live in. I want Americans to have a higher standard of living than anybody else in the world.
I like how you've set yourself up as the arbiter of what is "good for me" (or anybody/everybody else). I've about had enough of this thread, I don't want to go all rude on you again, out of frustration.
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@Dexter
Never been to Russia or met and talked with any educated Russians,have you?
We're better than the Russians. Do you disagree?
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For the good of the nation we live in. I want Americans to have a higher standard of living than anybody else in the world.
We have the highest standard of living. Your measurements showing otherwise are flawed. When you value something I do not value, you cannot claim my standard of living is sub-par.
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I like how you've set yourself up as the arbiter of what is "good for me" (or anybody/everybody else). I've about had enough of this thread, I don't want to go all rude on you again, out of frustration.
I'm trying to convince you that deep investments into the health and education of Americans will help us maintain our dominance of the world. I don't want my great grandchildren to be forced to learn Chinese.
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A free ride would be never needing to do anything but sit on your ass. That's not what I'm advocating.
You are completely clueless about the outcomes of what you want. That statement right there proves it.
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That doesn't mean we shouldn't have public college and healthcare, or at least do the best we can. We could free up incredible amounts of money if we weren't so wasteful and I think you know it.
I hope you realize that government control of our healthcare is complete control over our lives and anathema to personal freedom.
The words flip off your fingers easily, but what you are advocating here is that the incompetent, bloated, inefficient, greedy US government gets control of every aspect of our health and therefore, our lives.
IOW, you are advocating that Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell, Obama, Trump and any radical idiot who might follow can dictate whether you live or die, and whether you are worth being cared for.
You are advocating that the best health care in the world submit to the dictates of the greedy, powerful swamp dwellers in DC, and descend into the abyss of mediocrity.
What a goal you have there, @Dexter. *****rollingeyes*****
As for education...... the very reason the system is in a mess is what you are cheering on. Leftist control. Government overreach. Lack of freedom to teach what should be taught.
NOTHING you are advocating works in real life. EVERYTHING you are advocating will make our lives cheaper and less valuable.
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You are completely clueless about the outcomes of what you want. That statement right there proves it.
I feel sorry for millennials like @Dexter who were never taught the value of hard work, personal responsibility and genuine achievement.
What he is cheerleading for here will take what little incentive is left in his generation, and throw it down the toilet.
For the betterment of the country, so he says.... *****rollingeyes*****
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I'm trying to convince you that deep [Government] investments into the health and education of Americans will help us maintain our dominance of the world. I don't want my great grandchildren to be forced to learn Chinese.
It's possible to convince me investments are vital, but I don't want Government to be the ones doing it, in fact they are the last people I'd task with this. The highlighted part I inserted in your quote is what I believe you mean, it's possible.
Just because I don't want government doing it doesn't mean I don't want it to be done. This is a common fallacy I see from the left.
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Nationalists do too.
So you're a National Socialist?
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I hope you realize that government control of our healthcare is complete control over our lives and anathema to personal freedom.
The words flip off your fingers easily, but what you are advocating here is that the incompetent, bloated, inefficient, greedy US government gets control of every aspect of our health and therefore, our lives.
IOW, you are advocating that Nancy Pelosi and Mitch McConnell, Obama, Trump and any radical idiot who might follow can dictate whether you live or die, and whether you are worth being cared for.
You are advocating that the best health care in the world submit to the dictates of the greedy, powerful swamp dwellers in DC, and descend into the abyss of mediocrity.
What a goal you have there, @Dexter. *****rollingeyes*****
As for education...... the very reason the system is in a mess is what you are cheering on. Leftist control. Government overreach. Lack of freedom to teach what should be taught.
NOTHING you are advocating works in real life. EVERYTHING you are advocating will make our lives cheaper and less valuable.
@musiclady
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/glee/images/3/38/Orson-welles-clapping.gif/revision/latest?cb=20110705203442)
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It's possible to convince me investments are vital, but I don't want Government to be the ones doing it, in fact they are the last people I'd task with this. The highlighted part I inserted in your quote is what I believe you mean, it's possible.
Just because I don't want government doing it doesn't mean I don't want it to be done. This is a common fallacy I see from the left.
How else can we make college and healthcare affordable to ALL Americans? Even in a free market utopia there will be people missing vital opportunities due to lack of access.
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We're better than the Russians. Do you disagree?
@Dexter
Yes. Every single Russian I ever met placed knowledge and education above everything else. They all grew up in a system where only the masters had cash or material things,so education,knowledge,and work became their status symbols.
NOT saying they are better or smarter,but they are certainly no less. A lot of their scientific research was held back because their masters didn't want them sharing anything,not even with each other. Even if their scientists had insights,they weren't free to investigate and prove them.
BTW,you should hear some of the jokes they have about communism. They only told them amongst family and close personal friends back before the USSR collapsed,but they knew very well they were living in an artificial and politically corrupt world.
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I feel sorry for millennials like @Dexter who were never taught the value of hard work, personal responsibility and genuine achievement.
What he is cheerleading for here will take what little incentive is left in his generation, and throw it down the toilet.
For the betterment of the country, so he says.... *****rollingeyes*****
Thankfully I taught my two millennial children that it's better to work for something than to have it given to you and that a Government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take everything you have.
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So you're a National Socialist?
(http://media.giphy.com/media/3R8OhehsI15yU/source.gif)
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How else can we make college and healthcare affordable to ALL Americans? Even in a free market utopia there will be people missing vital opportunities due to lack of access.
Let me be clear about the fallacy you are presenting: The False Dichotomy. If I don't want to do it the way you propose, I don't want it done, because there is no other way than the one you propose.
That's not even accounting for the fact that what you propose (HC for "all" Americans) is not possible under any third-payer system.
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So you're a National Socialist?
I'm a nationalist that supports certain social programs. I don't believe in dictators and I don't want to murder anybody.
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If I don't want to do it the way you propose, I don't want it done, because there is no other way than the one you propose.
How else can it be done?
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I'm a nationalist that supports certain social programs. I don't believe in dictators and I don't want to murder anybody.
The bleep you don't.
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The bleep you don't.
:shrug:
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:shrug:
You're here advocating for the gov't to take from some to give to others.
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You're here advocating for the gov't to take from some to give to others.
Your view that the government shouldn't take any of your money for the benefit of the nation is not compatible with the real world.
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Your view that the government shouldn't take any of your money for the benefit of the nation is not compatible with the real world.
So you're saying the government knows what to do with my money better than I do?
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Your view that the government shouldn't take any of your money for the benefit of the nation is not compatible with the real world.
My view is that the gov't should use money to pay for the things spelled out in the COTUS the way it was written and intended.
Your "real world" is that your generation is too stressed to be able to take care of itself.
I prefer the path of most resistance.
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So you're saying the government knows what to do with my money better than I do?
I'm saying that even if you're right it doesn't matter because it's never going to work that way. The government will always take money for what it sees as beneficial to the nation.
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How else can it be done?
Put all the old people on ice-floes, and execute anybody who shows up at a Hospital for any reason.
I'm being silly there.
I haven't given it much thought, and I'm a lowly retired R&D Technician. Because I can't give you an alternative from thin air, how-do-you-do, doesn't mean government is the solution. What we had before Obastardcare crashed the Insurance system seemed better to me than any government imposed system on its best day. It was imperfect, yes, but it still beat the heck out of any government forced system out there today.
I'm not dong any more circle talking, and I think I've been around the pea patch a couple times already so if you don't offer anything new, I'm done for this thread. Miller Time beckons anyway.
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I haven't given it much thought, and I'm a lowly retired R&D Technician. Because I can't give you an alternative from thin air, how-do-you-do, doesn't mean government is the solution.
If making sure everybody has access is the objective then I don't see another solution. I'm open to suggestions.
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How else can we make college and healthcare affordable to ALL Americans? Even in a free market utopia there will be people missing vital opportunities due to lack of access.
Start with college. It is insane to think everyone should go to college.
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Start with college. It is insane to think everyone should go to college.
Just shut up and pay for it, you selfish beast.
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It is insane to think everyone should go to college.
Agreed.
It's also a tragedy when brilliant people choose to limit their educations based on the fact that it costs too much. It's a tragedy when any of our brilliant young minds are not getting the best education possible.
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Agreed.
It's also a tragedy when brilliant people choose to limit their educations based on the fact that it costs too much.
Absolutely. Like Bill Gates and Michael Dell.
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Absolutely. Like Bill Gates and Michael Dell.
Everybody should just be Bill Gates, huh?
Sorry but my IQ isn't 150+.
I'm not going to walk Einstein's path either.
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If making sure everybody has access is the objective then I don't see another solution. I'm open to suggestions.
How about people be responsible for their own education and health, not the government, there are extremely few examples where government intervention made things better in the long run. There shouldn't be higher education, college, for all, some people are just to mentally/emotionally lacking to succeed, there are too many bullshit courses that add nothing to a persons ability to succeed in a job or society. College should be there for those who can meet the challenge, we used to have relatively inexpensive junior colleges for those that needed more preparation for four year colleges but now they are not cheap anymore and overflowing with idlers, and others that will never achieve a degree or go on to higher education. Some people, a lot, should have been counseled to take up a trade and be properly trained in it instead of being driven to enroll in college and rack up back breaking loans.
Free is never free, not really and I'm sure you know it, why should I bust my ass to pay for some moron to go to college to party? When I was college age you either managed to get a scholarship, or you worked a job on the days and times you weren't in class, you didn't expect anyone not even mommy government to pay your way. When I was sixteen I worked in a large dinner house and almost all the help was college aged working to pay their own way through college.
What we need to do is lean out the bullshit courses and teachers and cut the cost of college and make sure that we get the most qualified as students. That means not letting every unqualified idiot in just because of their color, or place of origin. If someone unqualified really wants to attend a four year college or university there should be available and they should be required to take remedial course to bring them up to the proper educational level for enrollment. For others trade schools which would be a far less expensive burden should be their educational path. There are so many unfilled trade jobs out there waiting and it doesn't cost a lot to get started. I took a trade class, HVAC, to give me more value in my job and it was a ROP program that was flexible in classes, cheap and placed all graduates in jobs at the apprentice level. What we have now is unskilled burger flippers demanding $15 dollars an hour, untrained and sometimes unskilled college grads that have racked up enormous student loan debts expecting to make unrealistic wages in fields where there are no jobs or demands.
You sound just like the democrats promising loan forgiveness and free college, healthcare and whatever else they can think of.
But irregardless we the taxpayer should not be on the hook for it.
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some people are just to mentally/emotionally lacking to succeed
Those people should be identified and prevented from wasting more resources. We become the greatest in the world by identifying all of our most brilliant people and giving them plentiful opportunities to become educated so they can grow into the people that will make sure America stays on top forever.
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My view is that the gov't should use money to pay for the things spelled out in the COTUS the way it was written and intended.
Your "real world" is that your generation is too stressed to be able to take care of itself.
I prefer the path of most resistance.
There have been so many great posts on this thread. But I love this one and @musiclady 's.
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Everybody should just be Bill Gates, huh?
Sorry but my IQ isn't 150+.
I'm not going to walk Einstein's path either.
Just pointing out the limitations of your original statement.
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Those people should be identified and prevented from wasting more resources. We become the greatest in the world by identifying all of our most brilliant people and giving them plentiful opportunities to become educated so they can grow into the people that will make sure America stays on top forever.
Interesting concept. Others have tried that, you know.
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Interesting concept. Others have tried that, you know.
Giving people the bad news that they're not smart/disciplined enough for college is basically like the Holocaust, right?
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Those people should be identified and prevented from wasting more resources. We become the greatest in the world by identifying all of our most brilliant people and giving them plentiful opportunities to become educated so they can grow into the people that will make sure America stays on top forever.
How do you identify these people and then when you do with them?
There are many, many instances of brilliant young people in this country that had enormously hard childhoods that had the will to overcome those obstacles. (Ben Carson immediately comes to mind.)
On a much smaller scale...I know several young people today that have taken advantage of the college courses available in high school and qualified for scholarships. They completed their college educations in three years, while working. with no huge debt and useful degrees.
The government had no part in it...They did it. College isn't for everyone. A great living can be made in the trades...and it won't be outsourced.
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Agreed.
It's also a tragedy when brilliant people choose to limit their educations based on the fact that it costs too much. It's a tragedy when any of our brilliant young minds are not getting the best education possible.
Brilliant minds find their own path to success. Their path and their success may not be recognized by you.
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How do you identify these people and then when you do with them?
Help them find growth opportunities more appropriate to their abilities.
There are many, many instances of brilliant young people in this country that had enormously hard childhoods that had the will to overcome those obstacles.
How many instances didn't turn out so good? How many of them could have been better? We are absolutely wasting brilliance in this country.
On a much smaller scale...I know several young people today that have taken advantage of the college courses available in high school and qualified for scholarships. They completed their college educations in three years, while working. with no huge debt and useful degrees.
The government had no part in it...They did it. College isn't for everyone. A great living can be made in the trades...and it won't be outsourced.
My dad used to teach IB classes. The kids that excel in those classes are unreal. Some of them do nothing but study. There's a lot of really smart people that could never do that because that's an insane amount of discipline.
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Giving people the bad news that they're not smart/disciplined enough for college is basically like the Holocaust, right?
No, government drones deciding what jobs people are going to do for life, or who gets rationed healthcare is basically like the Holocaust.
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Giving people the bad news that they're not smart/disciplined enough for college is basically like the Holocaust, right?
You posted this yesterday:
Ask a bunch of 18 year olds slaving away in an extremely understaffed Walmart for 9 dollars an hour if they understand anything about woe and misery. All that hard work and a lot of them can't even afford a freaking car, let alone put money away for a house or retirement.
I responded yesterday:
There’s literally slavery existing right now, November 25, 2018. Real slavery. Forced labor, sex slavery, even upon children. Do not equivocate earning a legal wage doing legal work upon one’s free will as slavery. It’s disgusting.
My response now:
My analogy of the government deciding who is and is not worthy of resources is literally eugenics, a concept literally used in the Holocaust and even today for abortion. Your slavery analogy is the one that needs work, not my Holocaust and abortion analogy.
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Those people should be identified and prevented from wasting more resources. We become the greatest in the world by identifying all of our most brilliant people and giving them plentiful opportunities to become educated so they can grow into the people that will make sure America stays on top forever.
@Dexter
That’s just your inner libtard speaking.
Here’s the problem Dex ol buddy:
Success is not dependent on brilliance. Success is dependent upon DRIVE.
Exceptional success is dependent upon DRIVE and brilliance.
MEGA success is dependent upon DRIVE and brilliance and luck.
But ultimately it comes down to each persons DESIRE to push through and not accept the status quo or to continue wallowing forward. And no program, well wishes or magic fairy dust will impart the necessary DRIVE to succeed. It’s there or it is not.
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Help them find growth opportunities more appropriate to their abilities.
How many instances didn't turn out so good? How many of them could have been better? We are absolutely wasting brilliance in this country.
My dad used to teach IB classes. The kids that excel in those classes are unreal. Some of them do nothing but study. There's a lot of really smart people that could never do that because that's an insane amount of discipline.
Well, we agree on one thing...even though it may be inadvertent on your part. It takes discipline...and desire. Sometimes that's what it takes in the beginning. One can always enjoy the finer things when the goal is obtained.
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Well, we agree on one thing...even though it may be inadvertent on your part. It takes discipline...and desire. Sometimes that's what it takes in the beginning. One can always enjoy the finer things when the goal is obtained.
Like my Pappy used to say: "Work before play."
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Success is not dependent on brilliance.
I know that. But most of the time the people that change the world are brilliant. They are a valuable resource that we shouldn't be wasting.
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Giving people the bad news that they're not smart/disciplined enough for college is basically like the Holocaust, right?
@Dexter
Um no. You’ve been a particularly willing student to all things conservative here...but this just makes you look like a moral retard. Not even remotely comparable.
And here’s a news flash for you: The world needs ditch diggers and septic tank pumpers.
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I know that. But most of the time the people that change the world are brilliant. They are a valuable resource that we shouldn't be wasting.
@Dexter
Without DRIVE they are choosing to waste it themselves. You cannot make the horse drink.
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I know that. But most of the time the people that change the world are brilliant. They are a valuable resource that we shouldn't be wasting.
Tip: You should have posted more of Axe's post...it supports your point a couple of lines down from what you quoted.
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The world needs ditch diggers and septic tank pumpers.
Of course it does. People that can't make it in college can be given opportunities to learn trades. I want all Americans to be as productive as they can be.
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Just pointing out the limitations of your original statement.
Brilliantly, btw.
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You cannot make the horse drink.
I want to make sure the horse at least always has the opportunity to drink. We waste brilliance in this country because we don't value education enough.
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People who can't make it in HVAC school should go to college. :laugh:
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Of course it does. People that can't make it in college can be given opportunities to learn trades. I want all Americans to be as productive as they can be.
@Dexter
And when they do not have the DRIVE to succeed at trade school? Your utopian ideas will be ground to dust upon the mortar and pestle of actual human laziness and indifference.
You cannot want somethjng for someone else more than they want it for themselves.
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People who can't make it in HVAC school should go to college. :laugh:
I dare say an HVAC Tech makes more than most people with Womyn's Studies Bachelor degrees. And quite impossible for a person who would major in that to accomplish.
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People who can't make it in HVAC school should go to college. :laugh:
And that's the truth!!
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You cannot want something for someone else more than they want it for themselves.
You should get that etched on mirrors...you could sell a lot of them. Maybe buy some healthcare insurance...if you already have it, you could buy a boat.
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If making sure everybody has access is the objective then I don't see another solution. I'm open to suggestions.
The problem with any government intervention is the unintended market distortion. You see how government subsidies have created bubbles in real estate and higher education. It's doing the same thing to heath care, and that only works to limit access. Europeans have coverage, but less access to specialists and longer wait times in some respects. I would not look to modern Europe for thought leaders. We borrowed some of their ideas early on, but they have ridden our coattails for the past 100 years.
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@Dexter
And when they do not have the DRIVE to succeed at trade school? Your utopian ideas will be ground to dust upon the mortar and pestle of actual human laziness and indifference.
You cannot want somethjng for someone else more than they want it for themselves.
I don't think more public education opportunities will turn out to be a bad thing. Most people are not content with being useless, and I think more opportunities will encourage more people to be less useless.
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:shrug:
@Dexter
It can't be done without murder because it goes against human nature.
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I want to make sure the horse at least always has the opportunity to drink. We waste brilliance in this country because we don't value education enough.
The horse always has a chance to drink in this country. We don't waste brilliance. Individuals waste their own.
But I do have a question for you...on another thread (or maybe on this one, who knows) you advocated the Repubs abandoning social issues. What you are advocating are social issues. So are we supposed to support Bernie Sanders and Ocasio-Cortez?
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If our government wasn't such garbage and could be forced to use funds more effectively on things that actually help Americans I would be glad to know some of my taxed income went towards helping your young relatives get ahead so America can continue to be the envy of the world. I respect your opinion if you disagree that things should work that way, but I don't think anybody that thinks like you do should claim to be a nationalist.
I make no great claim toward nationalism - Especially National socialism, which is right up your alley. In fact, me and mine are its mortal enemy.
You have no right to the monies you intend to rape from others.
You have no right to what is not your own.
The monster rises and you are cheering.
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@Dexter
It can't be done without murder because it goes against human nature.
I guess that's true if you think most people are naturally bad and useless. I find it hard to believe that European-style safety nets and college opportunities are impossible without mass murder.
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I make no great claim toward nationalism - Especially National socialism, which is right up your alley. In fact, me and mine are its mortal enemy.
You have no right to the monies you intend to rape from others.
You have no right to what is not your own.
The monster rises and you are cheering.
I've made that point several times and @Dexter just ignores it. I'm getting a complex. :crying:
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Yeah, our education system is in shambles. We should look to countries that are doing it better and then do it even better than they do.
Or, look BACK to when we did it better than any of them do now.
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I don't think more public education opportunities will turn out to be a bad thing. Most people are not content with being useless, and I think more opportunities will encourage more people to be less useless.
Although I admire your optimism...most people, that are useless, are very content with being useless. Don't judge others by yourself. More government opportunities won't change what they are comfortable with.
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I've made that point several times and @Dexter just ignores it. I'm getting a complex. :crying:
If that's true, a number of us other folk are getting complexes. pointing-up pointing-down
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I guess that's true if you think most people are naturally bad and useless. I find it hard to believe that European-style safety nets and college opportunities are impossible without mass murder.
@Dexter
European countries were able to establish socialist style systems because each country at that time was like a tiny little planet populated almost entirely by people with the same genetic background,religious background,and historical background. For lack of a better description,call them all "large extended families". Due to lack of births due to the taxation and lack of living space the typical Euro-weenie has,their populations were decreasing. Socialism does NOT allow for decreasing populations because each new generation MUST pay all the living expenses of the previous generation. So they started importing foreigners from 3rd world nations who don't mind living with 18 people in a 3 room apartment with one bathroom to do the grunt work. This works for ONE generation,and then the next generation resents having to live like they live when the non-3rd world citizen of that nation lives a more comfortable life.
The ultimate result IS going to be violent revolution because there just isn't enough money floating around to provide a middle-class lifestyle for everyone,so the 3rd world people are going to start doing what 3rd world people do when they outnumber you,they are going to kill you,eat you,and take everything you own.
Socialism is a Ponzi scheme that only works as long as the drones are kept fat and happy. When it collapses,and it WILL collapse everywhere it is tried,the result is going to be chaos and anarchy.
American,on the other hand has always been a nation of mixed peoples with different beliefs and different ways of living,so a government was created to handle the basics of nation craft,and to allow the people to live their lives the best way they saw fit,for the most part. And for the most part it worked,primarily because our ranks swelled due to an influx of civilized people from Europe who wanted to live and let live,and be in control of their own lives.
Then the 3rd world started moving in and the natives started getting restless in the 60's. Dim politicians saw them as footsoldiers whose greed and jealousy could be exploited,so they have been pushing them and for more of them to come to America in order to destroy it so the leftist elites can then crack down and establish their personal police state.
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I've made that point several times and @Dexter just ignores it. I'm getting a complex. :crying:
So Republicans will just stand in permanent opposition of all taxes and refuse to contribute meaningfully to the conversation? Taxes aren't going anywhere.
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Your view that the government shouldn't take any of your money for the benefit of the nation is not compatible with the real world.
The real world says the more you feed it the more it grows. And the more it grows the more corrupt it becomes.
What you will inevitably get is the exact opposite of your fetid dream.
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If making sure everybody has access is the objective then I don't see another solution. I'm open to suggestions.
No, you are not. You have already been told the answers, and refused them.
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Those people should be identified and prevented from wasting more resources. We become the greatest in the world by identifying all of our most brilliant people and giving them plentiful opportunities to become educated so they can grow into the people that will make sure America stays on top forever.
You know how that's done? With this meritocracy thing we have called Capitalism and a free market.
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So Republicans will just stand in permanent opposition of all taxes and refuse to contribute meaningfully to the conversation? Taxes aren't going anywhere.
'Nother logical fallacy at work here. I leave its identification as an exercise for the student.
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Of course it does. People that can't make it in college can be given opportunities to learn trades. I want all Americans to be as productive as they can be.
Ahh so the trades are for those too dumb to go to college, eh?
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Ahh so the trades are for those too dumb to go to college, eh?
There are many brilliant people that do trade jobs. Brilliance comes in many forms. I want to help people find their brilliance.
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I don't think more public education opportunities will turn out to be a bad thing. Most people are not content with being useless, and I think more opportunities will encourage more people to be less useless.
Right, as our welfare system so brilliantly demonstrates. *****rollingeyes*****
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So Republicans will just stand in permanent opposition of all taxes and refuse to contribute meaningfully to the conversation? Taxes aren't going anywhere.
I will assume you have read the Constitution and what the Federal government is SUPPOSED to do. If not maybe you should. I'm still waiting for an answer to my question at # 536.
If there is fault at any previous "privileged generation"...it is wanting their children to have it better than they did. A mistake? Maybe. But you are a product of that benefice. And I think you will want your own children to do better and have an easier life (judging from your posts). The difference being...you want the government to do these things instead of you as their parent.
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I've made that point several times and @Dexter just ignores it. I'm getting a complex. :crying:
Well as is usual, at least we are in good company.
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There are many brilliant people that do trade jobs. Brilliance comes in many forms. I want to help people find their brilliance.
Then form a charity or donate to somebody already doing it, like MikeRoweWorks. That's my favorite charity, he connects donations to promising applicants to Vocational Schools. Follow my lead, it's OK to do so. Use Amazon? Sign up for Amazon Smile and name him your beneficiary. There's no pain because Amazon will pay it for you.
But for the love of God, don't let government do it, they'll screw it up!
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wanting their children to have it better than they did
That didn't happen on a societal level. The opposite happened.
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Well as is usual, at least we are in good company.
That's at least three of us in the tub. Let's have Champagne! Or maybe a nice Burgundy.
***wine
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There are many brilliant people that do trade jobs. Brilliance comes in many forms. I want to help people find their brilliance.
Brilliance is forged. It comes in fire and heat. You cannot 'help' it at all. In fact, you do the very opposite.
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That's at least three of us in the tub. Let's have Champagne! Or maybe a nice Burgundy.
***wine
GREAT!
And I'll take care of the bubbles!
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Brilliance is forged. It comes in fire and heat. You cannot 'help' it at all. In fact, you do the very opposite.
People need certain tools to forge their brilliance, and other tools can make the forging much easier.
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People need certain tools to forge their brilliance, and other tools can make the forging much easier.
That is not true.
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That didn't happen on a societal level. The opposite happened.
Well...that is the biggest bunch of malarkey I've seen you post. I'm outta here. You are very fortunate that the people on this site are so patient.
BTW...you still didn't answer my question (#536)
Of course you probably won't.
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Well as is usual, at least we are in good company.
:beer:
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That is not true.
I'll use an extreme example to demonstrate my point.
How successful do you think Bill Gates and Albert Einstein would have been if they had been born in an illiterate African tribe instead of the United States? Success is determined by hard work and opportunity. The more opportunity young people have the more they will get out of their hard work.
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So Republicans will just stand in permanent opposition of all taxes and refuse to contribute meaningfully to the conversation? Taxes aren't going anywhere.
Your response makes no sense and doesn't appear to address @roamer_1's, @Cyber Liberty's point, and certainly not mine. Perhaps you could try it a different way?
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Your response makes no sense and doesn't appear to address @roamer_1's, @Cyber Liberty's point, and certainly not mine. Perhaps you could try it a different way?
I'll bet he doesn't note my suggestion to form a charity....or use one already established.
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I'll bet he doesn't note my suggestion to form a charity....or use one already established.
I don't believe the government can't be made to be useful.
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BTW, I prefer a good, rich merlot, but I'm doing low-carb so it will have to be a nice whiskey.
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I don't believe the government can't be made to be useful.
Of course it can. However, that does not address the question. Or, any of the prior 574.
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Of course it can. However, that does not address the question. Or, any of the prior 574.
I think we're simply at an impasse.
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I'll use an extreme example to demonstrate my point.
How successful do you think Bill Gates and Albert Einstein would have been if they had been born in an illiterate African tribe instead of the United States? Success is determined by hard work and opportunity. The more opportunity young people have the more they will get out of their hard work.
Your assumptions are not true. Nor are your definitions.
I am very successful, and I am broke on my ass.
You should see how many of your millennials are finding out that success has nothing to do with climbing the social, academic, or corporate ladder.
Many are checking out of 'society', finding an acreage they can afford, building or remodeling a house thereon within their means, and finding peace and sanity in old, old ways - becoming self-sufficient and self-reliant... Staying out of debt, and raising their kids up with mud between their toes... And I admire them, I really do.
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I don't believe the government can't be made to be useful.
Then you are no different than the ones who are running it now.
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Then you are no different than the ones who are running it now.
I wish politics wasn't such a shit hole that you have to sell your soul to.
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I wish politics wasn't such a shit hole that you have to sell your soul to.
You would do better to let folks do for themselves, and do the same yourself. When you do that, you will find that government and politics are in your way, and not benevolent.
Your wishes are wonderful and utopian. And if wishes were wings a frog's ass wouldn't bump the ground.
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You would do better to let folks do for themselves, and do the same yourself. When you do that, you will find that government and politics are in your way, and not benevolent.
Your wishes are wonderful and utopian. And if wishes were wings a frog's ass wouldn't bump the ground.
I'm not in charge though, and they'll kill you. I won't fight that fight with you brother.
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Your assumptions are not true. Nor are your definitions.
I am very successful, and I am broke on my ass.
You should see how many of your millennials are finding out that success has nothing to do with climbing the social, academic, or corporate ladder.
Many are checking out of 'society', finding an acreage they can afford, building or remodeling a house thereon within their means, and finding peace and sanity in old, old ways - becoming self-sufficient and self-reliant... Staying out of debt, and raising their kids up with mud between their toes... And I admire them, I really do.
I've been watching the Tiny House movement for some time. What an idea - live within one's means and without going into debt.
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I'm not in charge though, and they'll kill you. I won't fight that fight with you brother.
Nah, they can't kill me. I mean, my own body may be gone, and me on to better places... But when what they do has turned everything to a smoking crater, my kind will crawl out of the rocks, make a spear and a fishin pole, and go right back to living.
It's yours that will be the cannon fodder, because of your reliance on others and faith in noble government. Them that do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
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Nah, they can't kill me. I mean, my own body may be gone, and me on to better places... But when what they do has turned everything to a smoking crater, my kind will crawl out of the rocks, make a spear and a fishin pole, and go right back to living.
It's yours that will be the cannon fodder, because of your reliance on others and faith in noble government. Them that do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
What can decent people do? Do you really think the Republicans are going to save us?
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I don't believe the government can't be made to be useful.
That didn't address my suggestion, either.
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BTW, I prefer a good, rich merlot, but I'm doing low-carb so it will have to be a nice whiskey.
:shotglass:
(I made it myself.)
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Nah, they can't kill me. I mean, my own body may be gone, and me on to better places... But when what they do has turned everything to a smoking crater, my kind will crawl out of the rocks, make a spear and a fishin pole, and go right back to living.
It's yours that will be the cannon fodder, because of your reliance on others and faith in noble government. Them that do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
Humans have always relied on each other. It's how we have survived for this long.
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Humans have always relied on each other. It's how we have survived for this long.
That is no excuse for embracing socialism.
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That is no excuse for embracing socialism.
Helping one another has never been the same as socialism.
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I've been watching the Tiny House movement for some time. What an idea - live within one's means and without going into debt.
@Sanguine
God, but I am so proud of em. There's a young feller with a place up Patrick Creek that comes and sits on my porch... He spent his money on raw land, and spent as much as he could. Twenty acres of raw land paid in cash... it's got a good creek, and used to be a homestead before, so a couple pastures, though they are in fair disrepair. The forest has intruded for around 20 years.
He went up there with a pickup, a chainsaw, an Alaskan chainsaw mill, and a tote full of hand tools... and determination a mile wide.
He was up there on his own, living in a tent, and fell the trees and milled em, all by himself, after working all day... He made him a shed with a dirt floor in the first year to move into, and a barn, and a garden, and set about clearing the pastures and putting up jack-fence... After the first winter, he brought his wife and kid out.
You should see what that boy has done... all with his own two hands. What an adventure. They still don't have electricity... but he made her a neat little cabin. They have a couple rigs and a tractor now... And a barn full of critters. Them kids are coming up strong, and they'll do.
Now there's a millennial that knows where his bread is buttered.
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Helping one another has never been the same as socialism.
But people have been pushing socialism as a way of helping each other. It sucks, and we are watching it right here, in the comfort of our homes. 9999hair out0000
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That is no excuse for embracing socialism.
One day technology is going to all but destroy the need for any human labor. It's very possible that technology will before too long become beyond human comprehension. One day the entire world will be socialist. It'll probably have one government too. I want to delay that for a while because I think it's better for me and mine, but yeah, it's happening.
Sorry.
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What can decent people do? Do you really think the Republicans are going to save us?
Wrong question. What can YOU do to save yourself? Then you don't need savin.
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:shotglass:
(I made it myself.)
Ummmm!
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Wrong question. What can YOU do to save yourself? Then you don't need savin.
They have forced me to live in the world they created. It's not that easy.
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Humans have always relied on each other. It's how we have survived for this long.
Humans have relied on each other in small, insular, related groups. Contact between unrelated groups has generally been bloody, and frequently one group loses.
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They have forced me to live in the world they created. It's not that easy.
You have a strange way of standing up for yourself.
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Humans have always relied on each other. It's how we have survived for this long.
No... America is hewn out of raw land by rugged individuals, each their own. THEM folks rely on each other... Because they each can stand on their own, and thereby have something to offer the others.
That is a damnsite different than government handing out goodies, and in fact, it is government that removes people from standing on their own.
LIFE IS HARD. Stand up on your own two damn feet and get harder. Take the hit, and then some. That is winning.
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Those people should be identified and prevented from wasting more resources. We become the greatest in the world by identifying all of our most brilliant people and giving them plentiful opportunities to become educated so they can grow into the people that will make sure America stays on top forever.
You mean through things like college admission standards and scholarships for exceptional students? Yes, let's throw more money into doing something that is already done.
Aight, I'm out, but it's been oodles of fun talking with the National Socialist about what a selfish creep I am for wanting to keep the money I earn. Heil Dexter!
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You have a strange way of standing up for yourself.
I'm not going to fight the government. They will win. I can at least advocate for it to do things that help people.
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Helping one another has never been the same as socialism.
Exactly right.
'And if you think they're wild, it's just because they can't be broken - It's a strong and gentle people living there' -John Denver, Wrangle Mountain Song.
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One day technology is going to all but destroy the need for any human labor. It's very possible that technology will before too long become beyond human comprehension. One day the entire world will be socialist. It'll probably have one government too. I want to delay that for a while because I think it's better for me and mine, but yeah, it's happening.
Sorry.
Nah. It will eat itself. It has to. Your job is to get the hell out of the way, and learn how to make do, no matter what.
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You mean through things like college admission standards and scholarships for exceptional students? Yes, let's throw more money into doing something that is already done.
Aight, I'm out, but it's been oodles of fun talking with the National Socialist about what a selfish creep I am for wanting to keep the money I earn. Heil Dexter!
Me too. This is starting to have a negative effect on my sunshiny personality.
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They have forced me to live in the world they created. It's not that easy.
Bullshit. Get on your Keds and walk off. Make your own way. That's how it is done.
Are you married?
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Me too. This is starting to have a negative effect on my sunshiny personality.
I seen you're gettin that twitch under your eye...
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Bullshit. Get on your Keds and walk off. Make your own way. That's how it is done.
Are you married?
I have too much invested in society to leave.
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I seen you're gettin that twitch under your eye...
(http://i.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/pueMQb.gif)
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I have too much invested in society to leave.
We all do, @Dexter. :0001:
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Young people often have ridiculous desires, like chasing their passions and dreams. When tiny ones in your life tell you they want to be scientists and astronauts etc do you tell them they should chase their dreams, or that they should be more practical and look for an AC repair or welding job?
What you tell them is that if they want to be a scientist, they'd better work hard on their schoolwork, be best in class at math, and science, and learn how to write well as well--in short push for a minimum GPA of 3.5, especially in their core courses. Tell them to expect to push through their Master's Degree, if they want a decent job, because a bachelor's degree has been devalued by the past couple of generations majoring in what used to be a chapter in an intro course. Tell them to expect to be poor for the duration, to consider it sweat equity, and expect to hold down at least a part time job to pick up expenses, too.
That's no guarantee that they will be successful in science. Even having a passion for their chosen field may not be enough--they have to have ability, too--and there are no guarantees.
As someone who has made a living as a geologist more years than not, it is helpful to know a trade as well. PArt time construction jobs teach skills which can come in handy for a scientist, and a scientist who can drive a semi or is a certified welder will always find work in one field or another.
Or, someone could cut to the chase, learn a trade and become a master at that and pursue science on the side. I knew a master cabinetmaker as an undergrad, who had worked on display cabinets in the Smithsonian, who was an expert in the identification of minerals on sight, who had studied physical crystallography on breaks and at home, and who was published in a scientific journal, quoted by my undergrad advisor in his doctorate dissertation.
There are no limits for those who really want to accomplish something, but they are going to have to bust ass so long that it will become second nature to do so. That will cause problems with those who only want to be mediocre (in college, "busting" the grading curve by actually getting test scores in the high 90s, for instance) because they will make them look bad without even trying. Depending on the work environment, that just might not work, but that means they need to work for a better outfit, not slack off.
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I have too much invested in society to leave.
Oh baloney!
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No one forced him to buy that expensive of a car to begin with. He could have paid half what he did for that car and when it was totaled been able to afford another car. Perhaps he spent more than he should have to begin with. Shit happens.
Replacing air bags is the expense. I nailed a deer in a one ton van, paid about a grand to replace the grille, the radiator, the air conditioning condenser and a couple of other odds and ends. Not being in a state that requires a safety inspection, I cut the air bags off (they deployed when the deer hit the radiator, mimicking a serious frontal collision--even though I had only slowed about 5 MPH, the sensor was shoved backward from the impact, and the computer read that as a more severe collision) and duct taped over the holes. It would have cost more to replace the air bags than it would have cost to do the rest of the work. Since I'm driving a van, I have little doubt a head on impact would be fatal, with or without air bags, so the simple strategy is to avoid running into anything or letting anything run into me. (Jeez, just like the days before seat belts).
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Obama's "Cash for Clunkers" took a lot of perfectly good used cars off of the market, and forced car prices up.
Even worse, the parts resource those cars would have been in salvage yards was denied those who kept their cars, because the "clunkers" had to be crushed, without anything removed, not even a door handle.
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That was over 9 years ago now. I'm betting most people don't have those cars they bought back then and the used car market has plenty of re-supply.
Say what? I have six vehicles on the pavement and the youngest is old enough to vote.
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Even worse, the parts resource those cars would have been in salvage yards was denied those who kept their cars, because the "clunkers" had to be crushed, without anything removed, not even a door handle.
Also the third-party market for spare parts. Those people got the shaft too.
Interesting side story: I bought my car in the summer of '09, and the sales guy breathed a huge sigh of relief when I told him, "My old car is not eligible." People were waiting months for delivery because the government checks would not clear. It was a nightmare for the Dealers who had to store the new cars.
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Replacing air bags is the expense. I nailed a deer in a one ton van, paid about a grand to replace the grille, the radiator, the air conditioning condenser and a couple of other odds and ends. Not being in a state that requires a safety inspection, I cut the air bags off (they deployed when the deer hit the radiator, mimicking a serious frontal collision--even though I had only slowed about 5 MPH, the sensor was shoved backward from the impact, and the computer read that as a more severe collision) and duct taped over the holes. It would have cost more to replace the air bags than it would have cost to do the rest of the work. Since I'm driving a van, I have little doubt a head on impact would be fatal, with or without air bags, so the simple strategy is to avoid running into anything or letting anything run into me. (Jeez, just like the days before seat belts).
I wasn't disagreeing about the expense of the air bags.
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Say what? I have six vehicles on the pavement and the youngest is old enough to vote.
Yeah, but the average person keeps a car about 6 years.
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Yeah, but the average person keeps a car about 6 years.
I've had my Hybrid Escape for over 9 years, and it has 21,000 miles. The 300V Hybrid battery has me worried...it has a 10-year warranty and when it's out of warranty it would cost $10K+ to replace. There's nothing wrong with it, and it's wayyy low mileage, but I have to get rid of it quick. Mrs. Liberty's car is a 2005 Explore, gets better fuel mileage than my car, and has about 40,000 miles.
I'm actually a little old lady, and I live in Pasadena.
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So he takes the $7500 and buys a used car. Sheesh. It’s not rocket surgery.
Edited to add: Your excuses for this guy is why he is the way he is. It’s not his fault. It’s the insurance company’s fault, along with the auto company, as well as all the generations before him that he can’t buy a reliable fricken car and properly insure it based on its value *****rollingeyes*****
Not what I am seeing, here.
What I see here is that a mechanically capable vehicle is being totaled out because a safety device we did pretty well without when I started driving has deployed, and the State of New York has decided that the car isn't safe to drive without the safety device.
That law doesn't make the vehicle any less suitable for operation, except that arbitrary requirement for the device many of us grew up behind the wheel without.
I drove cars (and still own a couple) without seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, telescoping steering columns, 5 MPH bumpers, padded dashboards (just steel), Anti-lock Braking Systems, traction control, all wheel drive, radial tires, electric door locks, neutral safety switches, or any of a host of even more advanced doohickeys that are supposed to make it easier to avoid or survive a wreck. One even has the (optional) electric starter, crank behind the seat in case the 6 volt battery poops out.
What is taken for granted in a modern automobile is amazing to me, and what is considered essential for a vehicle to be driven has increased in amount, scope, and expense, when in actuality, very little of that stuff is essential to getting the vehicle to go down the road and stop when you want it to.
The best safety device remains between the driver's ears, and in some cases that is sadly deficient.
What's more, is that the more the vehicle is relied upon to do, the less the driver has to, and the less raw skill behind the wheel the driver develops. Simply put, the safer the vehicle is, the less so the drivers are.
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I've had my Hybrid Escape for over 9 years, and it has 21,000 miles. The 300V Hybrid battery has me worried...it has a 10-year warranty and when it's out of warranty it would cost $10K+ to replace. There's nothing wrong with it, and it's wayyy low mileage, but I have to get rid of it quick. Mrs. Liberty's car is a 2005 Explore, gets better fuel mileage than my car, and has about 40,000 miles.
I'm actually a little old lady, and I live in Pasadena.
Yeah, and I still have my 1999 Blazer that has about 250,000 miles. But we ain't the average bears are we?
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Yeah, but the average person keeps a car about 6 years.
I get that nowadays, what with the plastic degrading from UV exposure, they just don't last like they used to. :shrug:
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@Smokin Joe
Yeah, but where can I get a job? Lacking that, a Welfare check? Do they do direct deposit?
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Yeah, and I still have my 1999 Blazer that has about 250,000 miles. But we ain't the average bears are we?
Back in the 80's I knew a gal who kept her Mercedes for over 500K miles, and her dad bought it for her new.
We're pikers, sugar.
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I wasn't disagreeing about the expense of the air bags.
It was the expense of replacing the sir bags that caused the vehicle to be totaled out. (That insurance consideration is strictly an economic one--expense to repair vs market value, and not necessarily a question of whether the vehicle is functional otherwise.) In any state where the air bags have to be functional to pass safety inspection, the result would be the same.
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Back in the 80's I knew a gal who kept her Mercedes for over 500K miles, and her dad bought it for her new.
We're pikers, sugar.
Give me 20 more years. I'll get there! :laugh:
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Back in the 80's I knew a gal who kept her Mercedes for over 500K miles, and her dad bought it for her new.
We're pikers, sugar.
570K on the van, the 'pup' of the bunch just turned the clock over again, but I don't know how many times that happened before I got it (1987 Dodge Pickup).
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It was the expense of replacing the sir bags that caused the vehicle to be totaled out. (That insurance consideration is strictly an economic one--expense to repair vs market value, and not necessarily a question of whether the vehicle is functional otherwise.) In any state where the air bags have to be functional to pass safety inspection, the result would be the same.
Yes, and everyone knows that insurance typically totals out a car for less than what *we* think the car is worth. So, with a little bit of forethought, he couldn't afford to make up the difference for what insurance isn't going to cover if there was an accident that totaled it, then it wasn't a wise purchase.
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@Smokin Joe
Yeah, but where can I get a job? Lacking that, a Welfare check? Do they do direct deposit?
When I cut back to doing exploration wells, (I got burned out on the Bakken after 150 wells), the jobs were thinned out considerably, but the work is far more interesting. Scientifically, it is more meaningful, simply because what we are doing includes some pretty trick geochemistry, too.
Anyhow, the effect was to cut back to three or four wells a year, which meant the pay was less, overall.
I checked with other companies, but the day rates they were offering (for a 12 hour day away from home, often for the duration) were way too low.
So, in protest to the day rates offered by some companies, I got a job delivering pizzas. It actually pays the bills.
A kid with a car could consider such, and the turnover rate is fairly high. Still, part time jobs are out there, from retail to others, but jobs where people tip are the best because a bright outlook and competence tend to be rewarded directly. Hourly rates are not great, but the gratuities generally make those rates, calculated on an hourly basis, double.
Additionally, it has been an eye-opener to what millennials are going through, economically.
Some are dealing with the 'gee whiz' problem of having the latest gadgets, and that is expensive and a budget wrecker. Some have diverted their resources to alcohol or weed or both, and that unnecessary expense is hurting them. But one guy who came here from Serbia to work for 6 months worked two jobs at relatively low wages, spent little on tech or other luxuries, lived lean, and managed to put away over 30K in 6 months. He will go home to his wife and child, and use the money to buy land and start building a house.
For those willing to endure some "hardship" (older phone, less data plan, older computer, smaller apartment, used furniture, sobriety), it can be done. But if people are caught up in the use of credit to make it appear they are living large when they aren't making large, they are on the path to financial ruin.
It's a question of priorities, budgeting, and how lean someone is willing to live now so they can live better later.
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Not what I am seeing, here.
What I see here is that a mechanically capable vehicle is being totaled out because a safety device we did pretty well without when I started driving has deployed, and the State of New York has decided that the car isn't safe to drive without the safety device.
That law doesn't make the vehicle any less suitable for operation, except that arbitrary requirement for the device many of us grew up behind the wheel without.
I drove cars (and still own a couple) without seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, telescoping steering columns, 5 MPH bumpers, padded dashboards (just steel), Anti-lock Braking Systems, traction control, all wheel drive, radial tires, electric door locks, neutral safety switches, or any of a host of even more advanced doohickeys that are supposed to make it easier to avoid or survive a wreck. One even has the (optional) electric starter, crank behind the seat in case the 6 volt battery poops out.
What is taken for granted in a modern automobile is amazing to me, and what is considered essential for a vehicle to be driven has increased in amount, scope, and expense, when in actuality, very little of that stuff is essential to getting the vehicle to go down the road and stop when you want it to.
The best safety device remains between the driver's ears, and in some cases that is sadly deficient.
What's more, is that the more the vehicle is relied upon to do, the less the driver has to, and the less raw skill behind the wheel the driver develops. Simply put, the safer the vehicle is, the less so the drivers are.
My overall point is that shit happens to all of us. You wrecked your car? That sucks. I have cancer. I’m not whining about paying parking fees in Pittsburgh every week so that my doc can say, “Looks good!â€
Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.
But I damn sure don’t want anybody else making decisions regarding fairness for me.
Life isn’t fair, but damn is it worth it. Why is labor so painful? Because the beautiful baby is the end result. There is beauty and happiness at the end of the unfair road.
Our friend @Dexter doesn’t get that. He’s a pessimist that only wants and wants and wants. He doesn’t see the beauty in the struggle. I’ll take that struggle over an easy button any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
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Yes, and everyone knows that insurance typically totals out a car for less than what *we* think the car is worth. So, with a little bit of forethought, he couldn't afford to make up the difference for what insurance isn't going to cover if there was an accident that totaled it, then it wasn't a wise purchase.
Regardless of what level he bought in at, if the air bags and laws regarding them trapped him against having to replace them, it wasn't going to work out financially. He'd be better off to find an older (pre air bag) clunker he can fix up, but likely NY has emissions standards which would be tough to comply with. If they are like Colorado, even vehicles with fresh engines which have lower than showroom emissions fail if they don't have all the stock emissions devices in place and operating. Those can be hard to round up, and with some vehicles, changed depending on the week they were produced.
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My overall point is that shit happens to all of us. You wrecked your car? That sucks. I have cancer. I’m not whining about paying parking fees in Pittsburgh every week so that my doc can say, “Looks good!â€
Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.
But I damn sure don’t want anybody else making decisions regarding fairness for me.
Life isn’t fair, but damn is it worth it. Why is labor so painful? Because the beautiful baby is the end result. There is beauty and happiness at the end of the unfair road.
Our friend @Dexter doesn’t get that. He’s a pessimist that only wants and wants and wants. He doesn’t see the beauty in the struggle. I’ll take that struggle over an easy button any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Cancer sucks. Been there, done that, and may be in for a re-match. I hope you beat yours.
You are right in that it is struggle which builds our character, expands our abilities, challenges us to expand our 'comfort zone' when it comes to dealing with life. I wouldn't change that for the world.
Unfortunately, it is the arbitrary imposition of rules which mandate things which supposedly make life easier/safer/less difficult which, ultimately impose hardships which are simply arbitrary, unnecessary, and ultimately, expensive--and for which those who have never dealt with hardship are unprepared.
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Regardless of what level he bought in at, if the air bags and laws regarding them trapped him against having to replace them, it wasn't going to work out financially. He'd be better off to find an older (pre air bag) clunker he can fix up, but likely NY has emissions standards which would be tough to comply with. If they are like Colorado, even vehicles with fresh engines which have lower than showroom emissions fail if they don't have all the stock emissions devices in place and operating. Those can be hard to round up, and with some vehicles, changed depending on the week they were produced.
Buying a less expensive car is what I was getting at. One closer in value to what insurance would pay off on it if it were totaled, and adjust coverage accordingly.
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Cancer sucks. Been there, done that, and may be in for a re-match. I hope you beat yours.
You are right in that it is struggle which builds our character, expands our abilities, challenges us to expand our 'comfort zone' when it comes to dealing with life. I wouldn't change that for the world.
Unfortunately, it is the arbitrary imposition of rules which mandate things which supposedly make life easier/safer/less difficult which, ultimately impose hardships which are simply arbitrary, unnecessary, and ultimately, expensive--and for which those who have never dealt with hardship are unprepared.
That was the intent of my first post on this thread: Millennials are unprepared and now have to suffer the consequences. Their participation trophies won’t replace the 25% of the totaled car that the insurance company won’t cover. Millennials aren’t the first gen to have problems, so these buttercups need to suck it up.
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@Smokin Joe @RoosGirl
Welcome all to the Frugal Outliers Club! My story is, I have a low mileage, high aged car because I had a ridiculous commute (a mile) and a boring lifestyle. I'm too lazy and cheap to go out and replace it.
In fact, I'm having trouble justifying replacing it at all, now that my commute has been terminated. I think I'll sell it for cash and buy a nice roadster when we get moved to our Castle. Do they still make Lotus?
I know, I know...first world problems.
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My overall point is that shit happens to all of us. You wrecked your car? That sucks. I have cancer. I’m not whining about paying parking fees in Pittsburgh every week so that my doc can say, “Looks good!â€
Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.
But I damn sure don’t want anybody else making decisions regarding fairness for me.
Life isn’t fair, but damn is it worth it. Why is labor so painful? Because the beautiful baby is the end result. There is beauty and happiness at the end of the unfair road.
Our friend @Dexter doesn’t get that. He’s a pessimist that only wants and wants and wants. He doesn’t see the beauty in the struggle. I’ll take that struggle over an easy button any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Beautifully said.
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My overall point is that shit happens to all of us. You wrecked your car? That sucks. I have cancer. I’m not whining about paying parking fees in Pittsburgh every week so that my doc can say, “Looks good!â€
Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.
But I damn sure don’t want anybody else making decisions regarding fairness for me.
Life isn’t fair, but damn is it worth it. Why is labor so painful? Because the beautiful baby is the end result. There is beauty and happiness at the end of the unfair road.
Our friend @Dexter doesn’t get that. He’s a pessimist that only wants and wants and wants. He doesn’t see the beauty in the struggle. I’ll take that struggle over an easy button any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
The Journey is the Destination, friend.
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Buying a less expensive car is what I was getting at. One closer in value to what insurance would pay off on it if it were totaled, and adjust coverage accordingly.
He would have still been out the 25%, regardless of how much the total amount was.
Granted, a cheaper car would have left more to cover that 25% in the event of an accident.
Why spend more? Some states are pretty anal about what they consider to be a vehicle fit for licensing in their domain. It has to pass emissions testing, it has to have the required safety equipment, etc.
Some states you can get by without emissions tests, and safety inspection covers signals, lights, brakes, horn, and little else.
I would wager New York is one of the more anal states, and it takes a certain amount of buy-in to get a vehicle in good shape outside that will pass the inspections. Less might cost more, in repair costs to keep passing inspection.
Bottom line is that the insurance company would total out any vehicle the airbags deployed on, because of the expense to replace the airbags. The vehicle might be otherwise operational (like my van after replacing the radiator and such) for a fraction of that cost. In my case, the airbags would have cost three times what the mechanical repairs did. Likely that car was in the same situation.
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@Smokin Joe @RoosGirl
Welcome all to the Frugal Outliers Club! My story is, I have a low mileage, high aged car because I had a ridiculous commute (a mile) and a boring lifestyle. I'm too lazy and cheap to go out and replace it.
In fact, I'm having trouble justifying replacing it at all, now that my commute has been terminated. I think I'll sell it for cash and buy a nice roadster when we get moved to our Castle. Do they still make Lotus?
I know, I know...first world problems.
Where we got vehicles for years was from rental companies retiring older stock (well maintained, not so expensive) and from estate sales (often garaged, well maintained low mileage older vehicles, commonly large sedans, and not wanted by the kids who were already set with the vehicles they had/wanted). My general metric was how many miles I could expect in the remaining life of the vehicle. Condition of the body, glass, and tires were considered as well. There were some good deals to be had, but you had to do a little legwork.
There may well be some "midlife crisis" buggies out there as well, but ragtops and sports cars generally go for a premium.
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Where we got vehicles for years was from rental companies retiring older stock (well maintained, not so expensive) and from estate sales (often garaged, well maintained low mileage older vehicles, commonly large sedans, and not wanted by the kids who were already set with the vehicles they had/wanted). My general metric was how many miles I could expect in the remaining life of the vehicle. Condition of the body, glass, and tires were considered as well. There were some good deals to be had, but you had to do a little legwork.
There may well be some "midlife crisis" buggies out there as well, but ragtops and sports cars generally go for a premium.
Sigh. I'm sure they do. I might gt a fix 'm up or something. We may be fine with Mrs. Liberty's car alone. We still don't do a lot of stuff, we're just taking weekly road trips to the Castle right now. I have to decide soon if I can get away with driving the Hybrid up there, because she wants to move the cat herd soon, and we'll need two cars. It'll need new 16" tires.
Sigh.
More First World Problems.
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Sigh. I'm sure they do. I might gt a fix 'm up or something. We may be fine with Mrs. Liberty's car alone. We still don't do a lot of stuff, we're just taking weekly road trips to the Castle right now. I have to decide soon if I can get away with driving the Hybrid up there, because she wants to move the cat herd soon, and we'll need two cars. It'll need new 16" tires.
Sigh.
More First World Problems.
Then it'll be re-tired! :silly:
(Not cheap, I have a Tahoe that needs 'new shoes', too...)
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Then it'll be re-tired! :silly:
(Not cheap, I have a Tahoe that needs 'new shoes', too...)
I haven't gone out to price them yet. What, ~$2K?
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I haven't gone out to price them yet. What, ~$2K?
$500 to 800 for me for the set (Wally World). Aggressive tread, at least 10 ply, 16 inch wheels. But I have to buy the whole set, no going one axle at a time (4WD).
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$500 to 800 for me for the set (Wally World). Aggressive tread, at least 10 ply, 16 inch wheels. But I have to buy the whole set, no going one axle at a time (4WD).
That's not bad. I have to do all 4 (and spare I think) because they are old. Plenty of tread, but they could decap on me.
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Say what? I have six vehicles on the pavement and the youngest is old enough to vote.
My daily driver in bad weather is a 2016 4x4 pu,but when the weather is nice I usually drive either my 51 Ford Victoria or my 1939 IHC D-2 pu.
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That's not bad. I have to do all 4 (and spare I think) because they are old. Plenty of tread, but they could decap on me.
Yeah, the compound dries out over time and cracks. Solar exposure just accelerates the process, so covering the tires outside or keeping the vehicle garaged adds life to the tires. Mine have a good 1/4 inch of tread but I caught a nail through a sidewall (somehow) and have to replace the set. On inspection, they are deeply weather checked in the tread, and likely not safe at highway speeds, even though they do great getting around town.
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My daily driver in bad weather is a 2016 4x4 pu,but when the weather is nice I usually drive either my 51 Ford Victoria or my 1939 IHC D-2 pu.
I have a '41 K model, but it will take some work before I have it back on the road. Daily drivers are from the late 90's GM model block: two Suburbans, a Tahoe, and a Safari van, the 1-ton is for wellsite work, and the '87 Dodge is my utility pickup. Mrs. Joe drives one of the Suburbans, but having a group of vehicles from the same model block means parts are the same and the controls are always familiar.
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Yeah, the compound dries out over time and cracks. Solar exposure just accelerates the process, so covering the tires outside or keeping the vehicle garaged adds life to the tires. Mine have a good 1/4 inch of tread but I caught a nail through a sidewall (somehow) and have to replace the set. On inspection, they are deeply weather checked in the tread, and likely not safe at highway speeds, even though they do great getting around town.
I'll start looking. That was encouraging.
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Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.
@goodwithagun
Next thing I know,you will be trying to tell me that life ain't fair.
Life isn’t fair,
And there ya are! I think I am going to have to start calling you "Debbie Downer" for harshing my buzz.
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Not what I am seeing, here.
What I see here is that a mechanically capable vehicle is being totaled out because a safety device we did pretty well without when I started driving has deployed, and the State of New York has decided that the car isn't safe to drive without the safety device.
That law doesn't make the vehicle any less suitable for operation, except that arbitrary requirement for the device many of us grew up behind the wheel without.
I drove cars (and still own a couple) without seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, telescoping steering columns, 5 MPH bumpers, padded dashboards (just steel), Anti-lock Braking Systems, traction control, all wheel drive, radial tires, electric door locks, neutral safety switches, or any of a host of even more advanced doohickeys that are supposed to make it easier to avoid or survive a wreck. One even has the (optional) electric starter, crank behind the seat in case the 6 volt battery poops out.
What is taken for granted in a modern automobile is amazing to me, and what is considered essential for a vehicle to be driven has increased in amount, scope, and expense, when in actuality, very little of that stuff is essential to getting the vehicle to go down the road and stop when you want it to.
The best safety device remains between the driver's ears, and in some cases that is sadly deficient.
What's more, is that the more the vehicle is relied upon to do, the less the driver has to, and the less raw skill behind the wheel the driver develops. Simply put, the safer the vehicle is, the less so the drivers are.
Heck yeah. Especially out here... I stacked up hard into an elk, and wrecked the truck one time... A mid 70's Chevy 4x4 3/4T Heavy... Well, the truck was old enough, even at the time, that I didn;t carry full coverage (only liability), so I was in for the damages.
Well, I had just rebuilt the dang thing, so I really didn't want to start over very bad, so I sawed it in half right in front of the firewall, fish-plated a new front section on the frame, threw everything back on, to include a new front clip, hood, and windshield... put it in red primer, and it was back on the road in 3-4 days, and put another 100k miles on it.
Can't do that so much anymore.
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There have been so many great posts on this thread. But I love this one and @musiclady 's.
Thanks @berdie and @txradioguy and @mountaineer
But I'm sure you, and everyone else here, has noticed that @Dexter hasn't responded to any of the tough issues I've brought up (or anyone else, for that matter).
He just repeats his rehearsed talking points and ignores every issue that he feels like avoiding because it doesn't fit into his leftist government-makes-us-happy template.
Lots of great points have been made here, but they've gone right over his head.
It's too bad, too, Dexter, because you're a bright guy and have said you're interested in learning from reasonable conservatives, but when push comes to shove, you just can't bring yourself to it.
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And I'm sitting here worried my 300V Hybrid battery is going to croak on me in the middle of the Joshua Tree Parkway.... **nononono*
With a load of cats.
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Thanks @berdie and @txradioguy and @mountaineer
But I'm sure you, and everyone else here, has noticed that @Dexter hasn't responded to any of the tough issues I've brought up (or anyone else, for that matter).
He just repeats his rehearsed talking points and ignores every issue that he feels like avoiding because it doesn't fit into his leftist government-makes-us-happy template.
Lots of great points have been made here, but they've gone right over his head.
It's too bad, too, Dexter, because you're a bright guy and have said you're interested in learning from reasonable conservatives, but when push comes to shove, you just can't bring yourself to it.
Give him a break. It's probably past his bedtime.
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And I'm sitting here worried my 300V Hybrid battery is going to croak on me in the middle of the Joshua Tree Parkway.... **nononono*
With a load of cats.
And that's why men drive pickups. Jussayin :shrug:
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And that's why men drive pickups. Jussayin :shrug:
And, women with dogs. :whistle:
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And that's why men drive pickups. Jussayin :shrug:
With an honest to goodness, gasoline by God engine. OK, Diesel is OK.
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Give him a break. It's probably past his bedtime.
:beer:
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With an honest to goodness, gasoline by God engine. OK, Diesel is OK.
As an aside, directly effecting and affecting you... Give that little golf cart to mamma for getting around the ranch, and go get you a pickup.
It is important. You're out in the sticks now, with the rednecks.
You can't show up at the Home Depot in that, or they'll laugh you out of the store, and give you the tourist discount to boot...
Same with the bar, and down at the river...
:shrug:
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A car for girls
(http://www.fossilcars.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/firebird2.jpg)
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And, women with dogs. :whistle:
I'm alright with that... One of my current lady friends is driving a 4dr 1T Chevy 4x4 cowboy Cadillac - dualies, fifth wheel (for a goose-neck horse trailer), and the whole 9 yards.
And she's a little bitty thing.
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And I'm sitting here worried my 300V Hybrid battery is going to croak on me in the middle of the Joshua Tree Parkway.... **nononono*
With a load of cats.
sorry, but that image...... :silly:
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A car for girls
(http://www.fossilcars.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/firebird2.jpg)
Your pic is no good.
Here, somethin like this?
(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.5DK6Lx7xvB8FiiUNAMmwrgHaE6&pid=15.1&P=0&w=283&h=189)
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Your pic is no good.
Here, somethin like this?
(https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.5DK6Lx7xvB8FiiUNAMmwrgHaE6&pid=15.1&P=0&w=283&h=189)
A Chevy turned into a Pontiac? No thanks.
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A Chevy turned into a Pontiac? No thanks.
:shrug:
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:shrug:
:laugh: That 70 Bird is just right.
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:laugh: That 70 Bird is just right.
this right here?
(https://heacockclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/1970-Pontiac-Firebird-Formula-400.jpg)
I had me one of them back in the day... Factory stick and special order 428 interceptor under the hood. One of my fav cars of all time. Slapped it upside a phone pole and let it go down the road, all but the motor... That's still up at my buddy's house packed in diesel.
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this right here?
(https://heacockclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/1970-Pontiac-Firebird-Formula-400.jpg)
I had me one of them back in the day... Factory stick and special order 428 interceptor under the hood. One of my fav cars of all time. Slapped it upside a phone pole and let it go down the road, all but the motor... That's still up at my buddy's house packed in diesel.
How'd you get a Ford engine in a Pontiac?
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How'd you get a Ford engine in a Pontiac?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Shelby_AC_427_Cobra_vl_blue.jpg/280px-Shelby_AC_427_Cobra_vl_blue.jpg)
Geez, just get one of these...
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How'd you get a Ford engine in a Pontiac?
LOL! Nope... You don't understand... That is a very special engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine#428
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How'd you get a Ford engine in a Pontiac?
Not that I can't get a Ford engine into a Pontiac, because no doubt I can... I just would not perform such an act of blasphemy.
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(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Shelby_AC_427_Cobra_vl_blue.jpg/280px-Shelby_AC_427_Cobra_vl_blue.jpg)
Geez, just get one of these...
Nope. It ain't got a bowtie.
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Not that I can't get a Ford engine into a Pontiac, because no doubt I can... I just would not perform such an act of blasphemy.
:laugh:
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Nope. It ain't got a bowtie.
Well, it was offered to someone with a Ford fixation. (https://dy98q4zwk7hnp.cloudfront.net/1967-Chevrolet-Camaro-Muscle%20&%20Pony%20Cars--Car-101055981-1a437c915406f23dfaf65157c4dd8bf6.jpg?w=1024&h=768&r=thumbnail&s=1) is a wee bit closer to what I'd love, if I had to go with a mere car. (As opposed to something with 4WD or cargo capacity.)
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Well, it was offered to someone with a Ford fixation. is a wee bit closer to what I'd love, if I had to go with a mere car. (As opposed to something with 4WD or cargo capacity.)
That's right... Chevelle guy myself... Mainly El Caminos... 65's or 69's
(https://www.dreamcarsellers.com/galleria_images/266/266_main_l.jpg)
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LOL! Nope... You don't understand... That is a very special engine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_V8_engine#428
Well, it's no RAM AIR. :laugh:
Wonder the weight difference between the 400 and the 428 for the 30 hp difference between the two.
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Well, it's no RAM AIR. :laugh:
Wonder the weight difference between the 400 and the 428 for the 30 hp difference between the two.
Well, as a matter of fact, the car was set up as a county police interceptor... Not a stock 428... and yes, dual-quad crossram to the functional scoops. That car was wicked fast.
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this right here?
(https://heacockclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/1970-Pontiac-Firebird-Formula-400.jpg)
Wasn't that the piece of shit F Body program car that GM almost got rid of after the Lordstown Strike in '72 because no one wanted to be seen driving around in such an ugly car so sales were nil?
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But I'm sure you, and everyone else here, has noticed that @Dexter hasn't responded to any of the tough issues I've brought up (or anyone else, for that matter).
He just repeats his rehearsed talking points and ignores every issue that he feels like avoiding because it doesn't fit into his leftist government-makes-us-happy template.
Lots of great points have been made here, but they've gone right over his head.
In complete agreement with this.
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:beer:
If you really want to go round and round with me for another 20 pages I can get around to it eventually. Other people will get pulled back in and this conversation will never end. As it stands I feel like both sides have pretty thoroughly laid out their concerns. I'm happy with it ending here. I'm not trying to ignore a bunch of your really critical points. I feel like other people have said similar stuff 10 times and that the conversation is done.
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If you really want to go round and round with me for another 20 pages I can get around to it eventually. Other people will get pulled back in and this conversation will never end. As it stands I feel like both sides have pretty thoroughly laid out their concerns. I'm happy with it ending here. I'm not trying to ignore a bunch of your really critical points. I feel like other people have said similar stuff 10 times and that the conversation is done.
But you still haven’t directly addressed the key points of all the older and wiser conservatives here who have accurately countered your canned talking points with real world experience, and I doubt you ever will. Based on your arguments here, deep down you’re still a socialist.
And socialism fails in the real world.
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But you still haven’t directly addressed the key points of all the older and wiser conservatives here who have accurately countered your canned talking points with real world experience, and I doubt you ever will. Based on your arguments here, deep down you’re still a socialist.
And socialism fails in the real world.
A lot of it really does just boil down to an impasse Musiclady. If my views didn't add up in my mind anymore I would be trying to figure out how to deal with that. I promise you I could go back and forth with you more on this, but you wouldn't be satisfied and neither would I. You're smart and incredibly stubborn. Disagreeing with you takes a lot of energy and sometimes frustration. That's why I skirted around some of your posts.
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A lot of it really does just boil down to an impasse Musiclady. If my views didn't add up in my mind anymore I would be trying to figure out how to deal with that. I promise you I could go back and forth with you more on this, but you wouldn't be satisfied and neither would I. You're smart and incredibly stubborn. Disagreeing with you takes a lot of energy and sometimes frustration. That's why I skirted around some of your posts.
Facing reality and history that disagrees with your ideas is often difficult.
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Facing reality and history that disagrees with your ideas is often difficult.
Don't tell me it doesn't take energy and frustration to disagree with me too. I think I've added like 500 posts onto my total over the last handful of days.
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A lot of it really does just boil down to an impasse Musiclady. If my views didn't add up in my mind anymore I would be trying to figure out how to deal with that. I promise you I could go back and forth with you more on this, but you wouldn't be satisfied and neither would I. You're smart and incredibly stubborn. Disagreeing with you takes a lot of energy and sometimes frustration. That's why I skirted around some of your posts.
More likely you skirted around them because there is no depth in socialism and no answer to real issues in a utopian ideology that relies on government to provide personal comfort and happiness and eliminates responsibility and struggle in its quest for satisfaction.
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More likely you skirted around them because there is no depth in socialism and no answer to real issues in a utopian ideology that relies on government to provide personal comfort and happiness and eliminates responsibility and struggle in its quest for satisfaction.
I am exhausted enough from this conversation to be fine with you feeling that way. It was probably inevitable anyway. I'm sorry you're disappointed that I ignored your high-effort post. It deserves better than that.
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Don't tell me it doesn't take energy and frustration to disagree with me too. I think I've added like 500 posts onto my total over the last handful of days.
It doesn't take much energy at all really to debunk your talking points.
The facts to show you were wrong were quite easy for me to find and took little real effort.
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It doesn't take much energy at all really to debunk your talking points.
The facts to show you were wrong were quite easy for me to find and took little real effort.
Have you ever tried to disagree with an entire crowd of intelligent people all by yourself? Have you ever faced the collective knowledge and opinions of a group of people that have lived twice as long as you have? It's hard, and it takes a lot of energy, because people aren't as stupid as we sometimes want to believe they are. If this discussion was stacked in my favor as much as it is stacked in yours I might feel similarly.
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Have you ever tried to disagree with an entire crowd of intelligent people all by yourself? Have you ever faced the collective knowledge and opinions of a group of people that have lived twice as long as you have? It's hard, and it takes a lot of energy, because people aren't as stupid as we sometimes want to believe they are. If this discussion was stacked in my favor as much as it is stacked in yours I might feel similarly.
And yet you learn nothing from that...
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And yet you learn nothing from that...
It's stacked in your favor because I am trying to disagree with an entire crowd of people by myself.
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It's stacked in your favor because I am trying to disagree with an entire crowd of people by myself.
It is stacked in our favor because we understand and have witnessed the actions and reactions of real people in the real world, rather than a wishful desire for an unobtainable utopia that only exists in fantasy.
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It's stacked in your favor because I am trying to disagree with an entire crowd of people by myself.
No, if it is stacked, it is because you are unwilling or unable to learn when confronted with new information. I expect that this is a fact of life for you and that you are unable to perceive the applied ignorance in which you swim.
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No, if it is stacked, it is because you are unwilling or unable to learn when confronted with new information. I expect that this is a fact of life for you and that you are unable to perceive the applied ignorance in which you swim.
You don't think it would change the dynamics of the debate at all if you by yourself were disagreeing with 20 different liberal academics?
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In theory, liberalism always works because there is always an endless supply of someone else's money. It's like looking around your neighborhood, seeing trees and saying to yourself "I have an endless supply of firewood".
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You don't think it would change the dynamics of the debate at all if you by yourself were disagreeing with 20 different liberal academics?
Reality and history does not change based upon different opinions.
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You don't think it would change the dynamics of the debate at all if you by yourself were disagreeing with 20 different liberal academics?
Not if they were presenting essentially one argument.
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As an aside, directly effecting and affecting you... Give that little golf cart to mamma for getting around the ranch, and go get you a pickup.
It is important. You're out in the sticks now, with the rednecks.
You can't show up at the Home Depot in that, or they'll laugh you out of the store, and give you the tourist discount to boot...
Same with the bar, and down at the river...
:shrug:
Well, assuming I keep it and it survives the 3 1/2 hour trip to Bullhead, I may end up selling it in a few years to buy a 3/4 ton PU. With any luck, by then I'll want a boat for the river and lake (depends on what side of the dam you're on). Mrs. Liberty is in love with that '05 Explorer. 4WD but the engine is too small for my comfort trailering. We'll find out soon about that because we want to take a little bitty U-Haul full of stuff up in the next couple weeks.
No way will she drive the golf cart, she hates it. Too many gadgets in the cockpit.
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And, good morning and a happy Tuesday to you, @Dexter.
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And, good morning and a happy Tuesday to you, @Dexter.
Take your sunshine and lollipops somewhere else lady. I'm not having you ruin a perfectly good fight thread.
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Take your sunshine and lollipops somewhere else lady. I'm not having you ruin a perfectly good fight thread.
The first rule about fight threads is we don’t talk about the fight threads.
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The first rule about fight threads is we don’t talk about the fight threads.
Shhhhh......
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Take your sunshine and lollipops somewhere else lady. I'm not having you ruin a perfectly good fight thread.
I thought it was a car thread now.... :shrug:
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It's stacked in your favor because I am trying to disagree with an entire crowd of people by myself.
#1 - You chose to bring socialist Utopian arguments onto a board filled with educated, experienced Conservatives, so whining about the outcome is pointless.
#2 - Regarding your later point about 20 liberal professors, @Sanguine stated it correctly. We would respond exactly the same way and win the argument because socialist ideology, whether presented by one student or 20 professors doesn't work in real life, and we have knowledge and experience in the real world......... which, incidentally, neither you nor the professors have.
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#1 - You chose to bring socialist Utopian arguments onto a board filled with educated, experienced Conservatives, so whining about the outcome is pointless.
#2 - Regarding your later point about 20 liberal professors, @Sanguine stated it correctly. We would respond exactly the same way and win the argument because socialist ideology, whether presented by one student or 20 professors doesn't work in real life, and we have knowledge and experience in the real world......... which, incidentally, neither you nor the professors have.
I'm simply trying to demonstrate the futility of my struggle here. I've said my peace. I don't want to get 200 pages deep into this conversation because it's pointless. This isn't a right or wrong thing. We disagree on how the world should work.
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#1 - You chose to bring socialist Utopian arguments onto a board filled with educated, experienced Conservatives, so whining about the outcome is pointless.
#2 - Regarding your later point about 20 liberal professors, @Sanguine stated it correctly. We would respond exactly the same way and win the argument because socialist ideology, whether presented by one student or 20 professors doesn't work in real life, and we have knowledge and experience in the real world......... which, incidentally, neither you nor the professors have.
You are describing the "consensus science" approach: If 90% of Scientists agree on something it is no longer a theory, it's a fact. Here, it's "If 20 out of 21 agree Socialism is where it's at, then it's the correct way to go." He's just outnumbered.
Both are fallacies. As you say, if he had 20 confederates he'd still lose this argument, even if the reasoning was more robust. It continues because everybody thinks he'll get a clue of the right person gave it to him. I think we proved over the hundreds of posts that isn't going to happen, and eventually this thread will collapse under its own weight. Even a car discussion can't save it.
Some people require real-life personal suffering to get it. College Professors are proof ideology can be more powerful than proven facts.
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I'm simply trying to demonstrate the futility of my struggle here. I've said my peace. I don't want to get 200 pages deep into this conversation because it's pointless. This isn't a right or wrong thing. We disagree on how the world should work.
Again, the world cannot "work" under socialism. And you're right........ the effort to defend it here is pointless.
Peace!
(And as always, you never lost your cool. :beer:)
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You are describing the "consensus science" approach: If 90% of Scientists agree on something it is no longer a theory, it's a fact. Here, it's "If 20 out of 21 agree Socialism is where it's at, then it's the correct way to go." He's just outnumbered.
Both are fallacies. As you say, if he had 20 confederates he'd still lose this argument, even if the reasoning was more robust. It continues because everybody thinks he'll get a clue of the right person gave it to him. I think we proved over the hundreds of posts that isn't going to happen, and eventually this thread will collapse under its own weight. Even a car discussion can't save it.
Some people require real-life personal suffering to get it. College Professors are proof ideology can be more powerful than proven facts.
And college professors (in general) have only ideology and no life experience to go on because they live in the proverbial "ivory tower" where everyone agrees with them. They never have to defend themselves to people who are their age and know better. They only have to defend themselves to students, and they do that by lowering the student's grade.
After all, they are socialists, and in socialism the powerful have absolutely control over the weak. Any claims that it's a better way of life ignore all human rights and responsibilities........ and as a result, human dignity.
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You are describing the "consensus science" approach: If 90% of Scientists agree on something it is no longer a theory, it's a fact. Here, it's "If 20 out of 21 agree Socialism is where it's at, then it's the correct way to go."
True. Science is not something you vote on. If 20 scientists tell me it's not raining outside and I see it raining, it doesn't mean it isn't raining. If they tell me it is globally getting hotter but it isn't getting hotter where I live, it isn't global.
You can reach any conclusion you desire if you can choose the data you want to use.
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Those people should be identified and prevented from wasting more resources. We become the greatest in the world by identifying all of our most brilliant people and giving them plentiful opportunities to become educated so they can grow into the people that will make sure America stays on top forever.
Nice cut on my statement, I never said these people shouldn't be given an education in a good paying trade, that would be an excellent use of our resources and benefit them and our society, I said that putting those ill prepared or educationally/emotionally ill equipped into a university setting was a waste of resources. You seem o be saying that only the best and brightest should have resources made available to them, and of the rest, those who in your opinion don't measure up? What, we ash heap them?
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(And as always, you never lost your cool. :beer:)
Trolls never lose their cool...it's their goal to get others to lose their cool. I'm surprised this thread didn't get locked about 300 posts ago. :shrug:
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Nice cut on my statement, I never said these people shouldn't be given an education in a good paying trade, that would be an excellent use of our resources and benefit them and our society, I said that putting those ill prepared or educationally/emotionally ill equipped into a university setting was a waste of resources. You seem o be saying that only the best and brightest should have resources made available to them, and of the rest, those who in your opinion don't measure up? What, we ash heap them?
First we label them sub-standard, then we pin Yellow stars on them and march them into cattle cars.
There is an "educational" concept called "School-to-Work" where students are screened in Middle school to decide if they get College Prep classes or not. If a kid isn't ready by 8th grade, he/she will get tracked into remedial classes, and will not have the necessary classwork background to get accepted into college. Since girls at that age mature more quickly than boys, this heavily favors the gals.
Problem solves itself.
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First we label them sub-standard, then we pin Yellow stars on them and march them into cattle cars.
There is an "educational" concept called "School-to-Work" where students are screened in Middle school to decide if they get College Prep classes or not. If a kid isn't ready by 8th grade, he/she will get tracked into remedial classes, and will not have the necessary classwork background to get accepted into college. Since girls at that age mature more quickly than boys, this heavily favors the gals.
Problem solves itself.
And, if they decide later to go to college, as frequently happens, they will be able to afford to do so, given that they are employable.
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And, if they decide later to go to college, as frequently happens, they will be able to afford to do so, given that they are employable.
After they fill in the necessary remedial classwork in a Jr. College. They have to make up for the missing prep classes they could have taken in High School.
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Trolls never lose their cool...it's their goal to get others to lose their cool. I'm surprised this thread didn't get locked about 300 posts ago. :shrug:
I'm going to stand up for Dex here and say he's not a troll. He's been here before, even farther left than he is now, but he clearly has a long way to go.
As for the thread's being locked......... there was absolutely no reason for that. There was some pretty good discussion from a lot of different Briefers explaining things clearly and politely to a young liberal.
All in all, I'd say it was a good thread........ except for possibly the car distraction. :tongue2:
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I'm going to stand up for Dex here and say he's not a troll. He's been here before, even farther left than he is now, but he clearly has a long way to go.
As for the thread's being locked......... there was absolutely no reason for that. There was some pretty good discussion from a lot of different Briefers explaining things clearly and politely to a young liberal.
All in all, I'd say it was a good thread........ except for possibly the car distraction. :tongue2:
I think it's been a good thread as well. I don't think he's a troll either, although it would explain all that "cool" he showed here. I simply don't know him as well as you.
I appreciated the car thing...I found out I can get reasonably priced tires for my Hybrid Escape. 333cleo
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I'm simply trying to demonstrate the futility of my struggle here. I've said my peace.
Struggle? What struggle? You have already proven yourself to be impervious to logic, reason, and critical thought. The deck is not stacked against you. It is stacked against us.
Case in point: For someone earning $12/hr their entire working life, they could have the option of retiring with over half a million dollars and drawing interest from that to the tune of $3,500/mo without touching the principle. Or they could hand their money over to government and live the remainder of their lives in poverty with a government check of a few hundred dollars each month and no $500K nest egg to will to their grandkids.
Any person with the ability to reason and think critically would pick option 1. But not you. Faced with a clear choice of one being better than the other, you choose to deny the undeniable and reject the truth of the matter. And for any Conservative, there is no way to 'win' against anyone who rejects truth.
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Struggle? What struggle? You have already proven yourself to be impervious to logic, reason, and critical thought. The deck is not stacked against you. It is stacked against us.
Case in point: For someone earning $12/hr their entire working life, they could have the option of retiring with over half a million dollars and drawing interest from that to the tune of $3,500/mo without touching the principle. Or they could hand their money over to government and live the remainder of their lives in poverty with a government check of a few hundred dollars each month and no $500K nest egg to will to their grandkids.
Any person with the ability to reason and think critically would pick option 1. But not you. Faced with a clear choice of one being better than the other, you choose to deny the undeniable and reject the truth of the matter. And for any Conservative, there is no way to 'win' against anyone who rejects truth.
When you consider the leftists' "calling" is to lecture us until our ears bleed to attempt to convince us up is down, the performance we've been entertained by makes perfect sense. The language requires it to be called a "struggle" because they are good and we are bad (or too stupid to listen to our betters).
This was both a good thread and a waste of pixels, at the same time. Cotton candy.
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I thought it was a car thread now.... :shrug:
What in the ever-loving bleep?! I left last night and this was a perfectly good car thread (except for Frank pissing on the Bird), and I come back today and it's back to the same old bullshit as before.
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What in the ever-loving bleep?! I left last night and this was a perfectly good car thread (except for Frank pissing on the Bird), and I come back today and it's back to the same old bullshit as before.
IKR? I'm afraid it was inevitable...somebody always drags a thread back into the fray.
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Well, as a matter of fact, the car was set up as a county police interceptor... Not a stock 428... and yes, dual-quad crossram to the functional scoops. That car was wicked fast.
Curious, did it have a foul weather bypass for the scoops?
PS The functional scoops wasn't the only thing that made a Ram Air, but you probably knew that.
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A gal-pal of mine on Bookface recently got a Hellcat. Loves it.
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I've got an actual golf-cart. 4-seater, electric.
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I'm afraid it was inevitable...somebody always drags a thread back into the fray.
Wasn't me. I'm done with this one.
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I've got an actual golf-cart. 4-seater, electric.
My Aunt has one because she lives in one of those golf-oriented Adult Communities. Every year she gets a visit from the cart company for Preventive Maintenance. She has a service contract...they even replace her batteries if they're shot. I see gasoline-powered Quads and sand rails are more popular where I'm moving.
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Wasn't me. I'm done with this one.
Correct. So, what kind of cars do y'all drive? Like them?
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Correct. So, what kind of cars do y'all drive? Like them?
I have a Subaru, Mr. M a little BMW. Oh yes, and a 1922 Chevrolet (if the restoration ever is completed).
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Correct. So, what kind of cars do y'all drive? Like them?
I’ll be buying a two year old suv in two years. I’m looking at the Toyota Sequoia, Lexus GX460, and Land Rover Discovery. Any suggestions?
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I’ll be buying a two year old suv in two years. I’m looking at the Toyota Sequoia, Lexus GX460, and Land Rover Discovery. Any suggestions?
I've heard some not-so-good things about Land Rovers, but I have not spent a lot of time researching them. Allegedly, they are not as robust as they show in their TeeVee commercials. The Lexus is good, my SIL has one in Cali.
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I have a Subaru, Mr. M a little BMW. Oh yes, and a 1922 Chevrolet (if the restoration ever is completed).
Subarus are pretty good, despite their liberal granola TeeVee ads. (Hint: "Love" is not what makes a Subaru. It's 4WD that makes a Subaru, last I checked.)
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Subarus are pretty good, despite their liberal granola TeeVee ads. (Hint: "Love" is not what makes a Subaru. It's 4WD that makes a Subaru, last I checked.)
I can't complain about an AWD car that gets 31+ mpg.
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I can't complain about an AWD car that gets 31+ mpg.
It'll go a lot of miles, too.
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I have an Acura RDX and it is nice. The Foresters have really improved.
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It'll go a lot of miles, too.
Even after the head gasket blows.
If you get a Subaru, get the turbo.
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Even after the head gasket blows.
If you get a Subaru, get the turbo.
Now you tell me!! :scared smiley:
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Now you tell me!! :scared smiley:
Naw, just keep up on the oil changes and you'll be fine.
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Correct. So, what kind of cars do y'all drive? Like them?
I have a 76 Aspen and another 6 more payments to Chrysler Corp and it will be all mine!!!!
(https://www.allpar.com/model/aspen-pix/ASPEN.JPG)
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I'm simply trying to demonstrate the futility of my struggle here. I've said my peace. I don't want to get 200 pages deep into this conversation because it's pointless. This isn't a right or wrong thing. We disagree on how the world should work.
No, it is not about how it should work. It is how it DOES work. Socialism is not a new concept. It continues to show how it fails over and over. People in Venezuela line up to search garbage. Capitalism in the US produces more food than the population is capable of eating. Those living here in poverty have choices in which free meal to select.
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Those living here in poverty have choices in which free meal to select.
And that is dependent upon the definition of 'poverty'... According to the world standard, I have heard it said (Probably Crowder) that 2% of the US population lives in true poverty. Enough to say it is there, but so small a number as to be within the margin of error.
The poor here have cars, cell phones and TVs, and full bellies. They are warm and dry, and have access to really good - seriously, good - medical care though medicaid. They have free continuing education offered liberally through welfare and workfare programs.
In the light of that, the argument being made on this thread is rather pallid.
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I have a 76 Aspen and another 6 more payments to Chrysler Corp and it will be all mine!!!!
(https://www.allpar.com/model/aspen-pix/ASPEN.JPG)
Is that a Pinto wagon? I thought for s moment it was the car from Chevy Chase’s movie “Vacationâ€
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And that is dependent upon the definition of 'poverty'... According to the world standard, I have heard it said (Probably Crowder) that 2% of the US population lives in true poverty. Enough to say it is there, but so small a number as to be within the margin of error.
The poor here have cars, cell phones and TVs, and full bellies. They are warm and dry, and have access to really good - seriously, good - medical care though medicaid. They have free continuing education offered liberally through welfare and workfare programs.
In the light of that, the argument being made on this thread is rather pallid.
And that is the truth. Our poor aren't poor by world standards. There are resources available or they can move out of their situation.
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I have a 76 Aspen and another 6 more payments to Chrysler Corp and it will be all mine!!!!
(https://www.allpar.com/model/aspen-pix/ASPEN.JPG)
The family truckster!
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Is that a Pinto wagon? I thought for s moment it was the car from Chevy Chase’s movie “Vacationâ€
Madam. Please. This is no common Pinto or some "movie car". This is the Dodge Aspen. Rex Harrison sang about them they are so special....
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1APfgwlUeac#)
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I’ll be buying a two year old suv in two years. I’m looking at the Toyota Sequoia, Lexus GX460, and Land Rover Discovery. Any suggestions?
@goodwithagun
Toyota. Lexux are too expensive and no more reliable,and Land Rovers are British. That should be all the warning you need on that one.
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And that is the truth. Our poor aren't poor by world standards. There are resources available or they can move out of their situation.
@berdie
It can accurately be stated that the poor 3rd worlders come here to fulfill their dream of becoming poor Americans.
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Madam. Please. This is no common Pinto or some "movie car". This is the Dodge Aspen. Rex Harrison sang about them they are so special....
! No longer available (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1APfgwlUeac#)
@Frank Cannon
They WOULD have been great cars,but Satan released a demon of destruction loose on Chrysler that created the "Lean Burn" ignitions. Satan himself had to be sitting on the engineering board to approve that abortion. Suddenly cars with otherwise identical drivetrains that got 20+ mpg and never needed repairs,got 6 MPG and stayed at the dealership for repairs more than it did at the owners home. There has never been a bigger evil foisted on the automobile than that abortion. It damn near put Chrysler out of business.
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@Frank Cannon
They WOULD have been great cars,but Satan released a demon of destruction loose on Chrysler that created the "Lean Burn" ignitions. Satan himself had to be sitting on the engineering board to approve that abortion. Suddenly cars with otherwise identical drivetrains that got 20+ mpg and never needed repairs,got 6 MPG and stayed at the dealership for repairs more than it did at the owners home. There has never been a bigger evil foisted on the automobile than that abortion. It damn near put Chrysler out of business.
We laugh at that shit because it set cars on fire, but Chrysler used that set up on all their cars until they got rid of throttle body FI sometimes in the 90's.
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I can't complain about an AWD car that gets 31+ mpg.
A co worker had one and drove it to oil rigs. He loved it, and considered it a very capable vehicle.
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@berdie
It can accurately be stated that the poor 3rd worlders come here to fulfill their dream of becoming poor Americans.
Yes! We have the fattest poor people in the world.
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Yes! We have the fattest poor people in the world.
Of course, that's only because we force the poor to live in "food deserts" where there are no Whole Foods markets, just 7Elevens, so they have to live on potato chips and beer. Damn you, white privilege! :whistle:
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Of course, that's only because we force the poor to live in "food deserts" where there are no Whole Foods markets, just 7Elevens, so they have to live on potato chips and beer. Damn you, white privilege! :whistle:
Next time you get a hankerin’ to drive through Steubenville, notice all the wide swaths of sodded land surrounding our many HUD complexes . . . being mowed with taxpayer money instead of planted with food by the inhabitants.
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Next time you get a hankerin’ to drive through Steubenville, notice all the wide swaths of sodded land surrounding our many HUD complexes . . . being mowed with taxpayer money instead of planted with food by the inhabitants.
Good point. Maybe the Urban Mission could get involved in an urban gardening effort?
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Good point. Maybe the Urban Mission could get involved in an urban gardening effort?
There is a community vegetable garden on the spot of where Wells Elementary was, across the street from the downtown fire station. A church group does it and it’s intended for anybody, even you and me, to take what is wanted. The welfare class doesn’t use it, though. Getting fresh vegetables means cooking, and that’s a step too far for them. If it’s not take and bake, deep fry, or open and serve, they don’t want it. What bleeding heart libs and their food desert pearl clutching fail to realize is that multigenerational welfare folk don’t want fresh food and ingredients; they want prepared food packed with artificial everything.
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Indeed.
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Good point. Maybe the Urban Mission could get involved in an urban gardening effort?
@mountaineer
Wouldn't work unless you had a full-time police force guarding it because the other residents would either steal it to eat,or set fire to it out of jealousy over someone else having stuff they don't have.