The Briefing Room
General Category => National/Breaking News => Topic started by: Machiavelli on February 02, 2015, 09:01:13 pm
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Colin Campbell
Business Insider
February 2, 2015
Liberals, conservatives, and almost everybody in between are hammering New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) after he defended parents' "choice" to not vaccinate their kids against the measles.
"It's more important what you think as a parent than what you think as a public official," Christie said Monday when asked about recent measles outbreaks in the US, according to The New York Times. "I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well. So that's the balance that the government has to decide."
More (http://www.businessinsider.com/chris-christie-is-getting-ripped-for-his-insane-comment-on-vaccinations-2015-2)
Democrats tell Chris Christie to 'shut up before people actually get hurt' (http://www.businessinsider.com/dnc-tells-chris-christie-shut-up-before-people-actually-get-hurt-2015-2)
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The Democratic National Committee on Monday attacked New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (R) and told him to "sit down and shut up" after comments Christie made about vaccinations.
Thou shalt not question thy government.
Obey...
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I understand the desire not to have the government mandate vaccines.
To keep it from being 'big brother' forcing it, the best course of action is to not be stupid. Don't give them a reason and not vaccinate simply for the sake of rebelling. I know many who don't do it because the government recommends it. A bad outbreak due to people not vaccinating is an open door for an oppressive government stepping in and forcing it. Plus, look up forced quarantines in outbreaks. More excuses for government to crack down and get even more powerful.
So don't be stupid, get vaccinated. Don't give the government an excuse to crack down.
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It's not a matter of being 'stupid'.
It's a matter of individuals being able to choose which risks they want to assume and which risks they don't.
If vaccines were effective, people who were vaccinated would not get the disease... they do.
If vaccines were safe, you could get vaccinated as much as you wanted to... you can't.
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I am the first person to decry the the liberal and government idea that children are state property
but not getting your kid vaccinated against preventable diseases like whooping cough , measles ,mumps etc is child abuse in my view...don't want to vaccinate your child fine ,but I support the view that the local officials can and should charge you with neglect if you kid gets sick
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Not getting your children vaccinated is harmful to OTHER children, therefore it needs to happen.
Unless, of course, you keep your child in a cave and never let him or her meet another child........
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I agree with Chris Cristie here.
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Not getting your children vaccinated is harmful to OTHER children, therefore it needs to happen.
Unless, of course, you keep your child in a cave and never let him or her meet another child........
Whats the saying ? your rights end where my nose begins ...and my health as well
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Employers should have the right to demand a record of your vaccinations and require that they are up to date as a condition of employment.
Schools (all levels) should require the same.
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Employers should have the right to demand a record of your vaccinations and require that they are up to date as a condition of employment.
Schools (all levels) should require the same.
When my country conscripted me for national military service, they provided at no charge, mandatory inoculations and vaccinations in great quantity.
I suppose I should have notified my drill instructor of my objections to same, and the violation to my liberty.
What was once readily understood to be common sense, seems to now have escaped a small ill informed minority, who would put the entire community at risk, for the sake of their tinfoil fears.
I doubt the anti-vaccination tinfoil people served in the military, but I'll keep an open mind, so they can correct me if I am wrong.
In the late 60s-early 70s the US Army gave vaccinations and other shots with air guns, which would cut you if you got scared and flinched or jerked etc.
A few guys were genuinely scared of such minor medical procedures. They even cried, and tried to avoid it entirely. Maybe our anti-vaccination tinfoil types include some of those?
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Maybe our anti-vaccination tinfoil types include some of those?
I think the internet is making paranoia and stupidity more mainstream. It used to be those types were on the far fringes, but with the internet, suddenly everyone is an 'expert' pushing pseudoscience. The fact that anyone takes Natural News or Mercola seriously when it comes to health and medicine say a lot about the lack of discernment in the public. I know reasonably intelligent people who actually believe in chemtrails. Even my State rep has passed along chemtrail conspiracy stories. People are actually following Jenny McCarthy for medical advice on vaccines versus over 100 years of science.
Add to that, people selling junk science products so they are vested in pushing bull about mainstream science. The 'in' thing now is people using essential oil warmers and rubs to cure everything. They even have MLM scams to sell them to unwitting victims claiming they'll cure everything.
High tech snake oil.
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Whats the saying ? your rights end where my nose begins ...and my health as well
Precisely.
This has nothing to do with government overreach, IMO.
It has everything to do with protecting innocent children from physical harm.
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Not getting your children vaccinated is harmful to OTHER children, therefore it needs to happen.
Unless, of course, you keep your child in a cave and never let him or her meet another child........
:thumbsup:
It is a public safety issue.
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I had those childhood diseases that there were no vaccinations for when I was a child and I got really really sick with measles very sick and I wouldn't wish my children to have to go through any sickness that there was a vaccination for. There was no chicken pox vaccination for my children when they were growing up it wasn't developed yet and they got so sick one getting two ear infections while they had it and another got pneumonia due to having it and was sick for weeks. One whole summer was filled with sick children we lived on a lake that we only got to swim in twice that summer. How about rubella that is a 3 day measles that while not getting a person very sick will cause devastating diseases in a fetus in the first trimester of a pregnancy it use to happen a lot but not since getting the vaccination regular measles can last for weeks and yes there use to be deaths back in the day. I don't know what people are thinking of today to refuse to get their children protected or not help protect others too. It could be because they never lived in a world that you had to watch your children suffer through these diseases and also went through them yourself like my generation did. This is child endangerment.
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. I don't know what people are thinking of today to refuse to get their children protected or not help protect others too. It could be because they never lived in a world that you had to watch your children suffer through these diseases and also went through them yourself like my generation did. This is child endangerment.
exactly
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How far would you go to protect your loved ones?
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(http://liberallogic101.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/liberal-logic-101-1380-500x416.jpg)
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(http://liberallogic101.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/liberal-logic-101-1381-500x416.jpg)
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(http://liberallogic101.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/liberal-logic-101-1376-500x416.jpg)
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Gov. Chris Christie (R) after he defended parents' "choice" to not vaccinate their kids against the measles.
It appears the battle for "choice" isn't turning out too well for our young.
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I'm not going to post my opinion on vaccinations. I just want to put something out there that I'm not hearing a lot of people talk about.
I see that the gist of blaming parents for not vaccinating their children is aimed ever so subtly at homeschoolers. I just assume that you have to present proof of vaccinations to be allowed to go to public school - that's the way it was when I was a child. Everybody is hatin' on homeschoolers - we need more regulations!!!
What no one is talking about, these homeschooler types haven't been vaccinating for years - and THIS year we have a breakout? I saw on TV - there are 100 cases of measles nationwide this year. I would have thought it was more judging from the hysteria. I saw a map of where the outbreaks are occurring - it was in places where Obama's illegal unaccompanied minors were sent.
They say this year's flu vaccine is only 23% effective. I wonder if that is because of Obama's illegal unaccompanied minors? They're usually pretty good at predicting which strains to include in the vaccine, but this year - not so much.
I can see where this is headed - more regulations and scrutiny of homeschooler types - who also are usually preppers/tea partiers.
This whole outcry is to divert questions about what might have Obama's unaccompanied minors brought here to us. In classic Democrat style - it's also a twofer. Now, we'll blame homeschoolers - instead of Obama.
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I can see where this is headed - more regulations and scrutiny of homeschooler types - who also are usually preppers/tea partiers.
This whole outcry is to divert questions about what might have Obama's unaccompanied minors brought here to us. In classic Democrat style - it's also a twofer. Now, we'll blame homeschoolers - instead of Obama.
Yeah... an attack on homeschoolers, tea partiers and anybody else who believes that people shouldn't have to submit to state-control over larger and larger areas of their life.
I had both types of measles when I was a kid. Don't even remember it. For this we need state-mandated controls?
Sheesh...
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This whole outcry is to divert questions about what might have Obama's unaccompanied minors brought here to us. In classic Democrat style - it's also a twofer. Now, we'll blame homeschoolers - instead of Obama.
So the feds cannot find 21 million illegals but can determine that this measles outbreak started at an amusement park?
Climate gate, Benghazi, deficit is a revenue problem not a spending problem, islamic radicals are not terrorists and vaccinations are 100% safe... got it...
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I think the internet is making paranoia and stupidity more mainstream. It used to be those types were on the far fringes, but with the internet, suddenly everyone is an 'expert' pushing pseudoscience. The fact that anyone takes Natural News or Mercola seriously when it comes to health and medicine say a lot about the lack of discernment in the public. I know reasonably intelligent people who actually believe in chemtrails. Even my State rep has passed along chemtrail conspiracy stories. People are actually following Jenny McCarthy for medical advice on vaccines versus over 100 years of science.
Add to that, people selling junk science products so they are vested in pushing bull about mainstream science. The 'in' thing now is people using essential oil warmers and rubs to cure everything. They even have MLM scams to sell them to unwitting victims claiming they'll cure everything.
High tech snake oil.
I wonder if the high case of measles is coming from people who came here illegally.
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If you like your children you can keep your children............unless the state decides your children are their children.
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What about vaccinations for diphtheria, polio? IOW more serious diseases than measles.
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I nearly died from measles when I was a child. I knew of another friend who lost much of his eyesight from measles. I had it back in the 50's and yes there were deaths back then and I was kept for 3 weeks in a very dark room when I got them and I remember quite well how sick I was and I was glad my children didn't have to get this disease. I am not sure about mandatory thoughI hate government getting involved when I really think this outbreak would not be happening if Obama's government hadn't let all these illegals from 3rd world countries into ours ignoring our immigration laws. I really don't believe there is a large percentage of legal citizens that don't vaccinate their children.
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I nearly died from measles when I was a child. I knew of another friend who lost much of his eyesight from measles. I had it back in the 50's and yes there were deaths back then and I was kept for 3 weeks in a very dark room when I got them and I remember quite well how sick I was and I was glad my children didn't have to get this disease. I am not sure about mandatory thoughI hate government getting involved when I really think this outbreak would not be happening if Obama's government hadn't let all these illegals from 3rd world countries into ours ignoring our immigration laws. I really don't believe there is a large percentage of legal citizens that don't vaccinate their children.
Vaccination rates in Latin America are about equal to the US. This measles outbreak was from Disneyland, Anaheim, USA. Too expensive for illegals.
How about "forced" vaccinations for polio and diphtheria? My grandfather lost three siblings from diphtheria in the 1880s/1890s in Dakota Territory. Then the (ineffective) treatment for diphtheria was gargling kerosene.
Kerosene and die, vaccine and live. In the 1800s people could be excused because they didn't know. Today it is self-inflicted ignorance.
By the way, I have a new book on how you can eat all you want, perform no exercise, and melt the pounds away. The book after that will prove the earth is flat.
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If you like your children you can keep your children............unless the state decides your children are their children.
This doesn't have to be handled by the state.
Just like my child doesn't have the right to go around beating other kids up, he/she doesn't have the right to expose other children to a deadly disease.
And just because some people get measles without ill effects doesn't diminish the importance of keeping it from spreading to others who will.
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I'm not going to post my opinion on vaccinations. I just want to put something out there that I'm not hearing a lot of people talk about.
I see that the gist of blaming parents for not vaccinating their children is aimed ever so subtly at homeschoolers. I just assume that you have to present proof of vaccinations to be allowed to go to public school - that's the way it was when I was a child. Everybody is hatin' on homeschoolers - we need more regulations!!!
What no one is talking about, these homeschooler types haven't been vaccinating for years - and THIS year we have a breakout? I saw on TV - there are 100 cases of measles nationwide this year. I would have thought it was more judging from the hysteria. I saw a map of where the outbreaks are occurring - it was in places where Obama's illegal unaccompanied minors were sent.
They say this year's flu vaccine is only 23% effective. I wonder if that is because of Obama's illegal unaccompanied minors? They're usually pretty good at predicting which strains to include in the vaccine, but this year - not so much.
I can see where this is headed - more regulations and scrutiny of homeschooler types - who also are usually preppers/tea partiers.
This whole outcry is to divert questions about what might have Obama's unaccompanied minors brought here to us. In classic Democrat style - it's also a twofer. Now, we'll blame homeschoolers - instead of Obama.
You have a good point about the war on homeschoolers, and on what the left will do with more regulations.
That doesn't change my view on the need to vaccinate against a potentially deadly disease, though....
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If you like your children you can keep your children............unless the state decides your children are their children.
I think the state has pretty much decided that your children are their children. Just mopping up the details.
People who afraid of the unvaccinated should get their children vaccinated as many times as they need to so they aren't afraid.
Then they'll find out what they want to subject other people's children to in the name of protecting their own...
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Precisely.
This has nothing to do with government overreach, IMO.
It has everything to do with protecting innocent children from physical harm.
If you believe there's unanimity in the scientific community about mass vaccination—that they are both benign and universally beneficial. However, there are opposing views and medical ethics to consider. And complications to weigh.
Deaths have been reported in the literature as a result of vaccines. To a policy theorist, death may be an acceptable risk, in the abstract. But in your world, that's your child or grandchild that just expired a few short minutes ago or maybe a few hours after receiving a state mandated vaccine. That's a heavy burden.
I understand others disagree—I simply chose this post at random for comment to presents a contrary view.
There is a question that has always puzzled me, though. What was human evolution before vaccines and what will human evolution be after vaccines? Or is there a new paradigm in the universe? Evolution plus vaccines?
Yes, we are a species that evolution made clever enough to make vaccines and modify genes. But did evolution also make us smart enough to control evolutionary forces, or just arrogant enough to tamper with it?
Yes, we know a lot. But, how much do we really understand?
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Vaccination rates in Latin America are about equal to the US. This measles outbreak was from Disneyland, Anaheim, USA. Too expensive for illegals.
How about "forced" vaccinations for polio and diphtheria? My grandfather lost three siblings from diphtheria in the 1880s/1890s in Dakota Territory. Then the (ineffective) treatment for diphtheria was gargling kerosene.
Kerosene and die, vaccine and live. In the 1800s people could be excused because they didn't know. Today it is self-inflicted ignorance.
By the way, I have a new book on how you can eat all you want, perform no exercise, and melt the pounds away. The book after that will prove the earth is flat.
There are documented cases from the 1930s and 40s of twins dying from diphtheria–pertussis vaccine. They are not isolated incidents. In 1986, congress passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act and has awarded over $2 billion dollars in compensation for deaths and injuries caused by vaccines.
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I think the internet is making paranoia and stupidity more mainstream. It used to be those types were on the far fringes, but with the internet, suddenly everyone is an 'expert' pushing pseudoscience. The fact that anyone takes Natural News or Mercola seriously when it comes to health and medicine say a lot about the lack of discernment in the public. I know reasonably intelligent people who actually believe in chemtrails. Even my State rep has passed along chemtrail conspiracy stories. People are actually following Jenny McCarthy for medical advice on vaccines versus over 100 years of science.
Add to that, people selling junk science products so they are vested in pushing bull about mainstream science. The 'in' thing now is people using essential oil warmers and rubs to cure everything. They even have MLM scams to sell them to unwitting victims claiming they'll cure everything.
High tech snake oil.
Exactly right. Look at the 911 Truthers, the anti-Flouride crowd, etc. The Internet gives them a vehicle for spreading irrational fear.
Of course, once the number of people who buy into this nonsense gets large enough, politicians will happily pander to them.
Nonetheless, I strongly feel that vaccinations should be a matter of individual parental choice. It is a shame that so many parents are buying into the conspiracy theories. But I blame a government that has failed to demonstrate its good faith with the people more than I blame the people themselves. This is the same government that tells me global warming is destroying the planet, that I must fork over half my earnings in taxes at all levels and it still can't keep from going $18 trillion in debt, that Al Qaeda is on the run, yada yada yada. When that government shows up at my door with a white suit and mask, holding a hypodermic needle to "do what's right" for my kid... I'm not so sure I can trust it. Therein lies the problem.
The guy holding the hypodermic needle has no credibility.
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Polio vaccine, for instance, causes almost all cases of polio in the U.S.
Most of us are infected with SV-40 because it contaminated polio vaccines. SV-40 may cause cancer.
As usual, anytime you have a group of people claiming that any position is 'settled science', it isn't...
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Good informational article, from Mother Jones. Not biased. Read it and you'll agree.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-exemptions-states-pertussis-map
"How Many People Aren’t Vaccinating Their Kids in Your State?"
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Good informational article, from Mother Jones. Not biased. Read it and you'll agree.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-exemptions-states-pertussis-map
"How Many People Aren’t Vaccinating Their Kids in Your State?"
Mother Jones not biased???? YOU have GOT to be joking!!!!
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Exactly right. Look at the 911 Truthers, the anti-Flouride crowd, etc. The Internet gives them a vehicle for spreading irrational fear.
OTOH, the media may be the ones spreading an irrational fear of the unvaccinated...
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Mother Jones not biased???? YOU have GOT to be joking!!!!
The article is not biased. Read it to become better informed.
I would think a site such as this one, with a daily barrage of fringe sources, would encourage open mindedness.
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There are documented cases from the 1930s and 40s of twins dying from diphtheria–pertussis vaccine. They are not isolated incidents. In 1986, congress passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act and has awarded over $2 billion dollars in compensation for deaths and injuries caused by vaccines.
There are documented cases of deaths in auto accidents due to the use of seat belts. Is that reason enough to forego the obvious and greater benefits of seat belts?
It is not coincidental that the number of cases of measles reaches a 20-year high at the same time that the number of people refusing to vaccinate against measles reached a 20-year high.
Newton's Third Law.
It is also not coincidental that the reported yearly cases of measles in the US plummeted at the point in time when national vaccination programs were begun.
Insofar as the $2 billion awarded in compensation over the last 29 years are concerned, a vast majority of compensations from legal suits are awarded out of sheer expediency. It s cheaper, faster, and less of a PR mess to just not fight the law suit.
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The article is not biased. Read it to become better informed.
I would think a site such as this one, with a daily barrage of fringe sources, would encourage open mindedness.
NO thanks! Not about to give those Commies a hit! NO Way!
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Mother Jones not biased???? YOU have GOT to be joking!!!!
What's the possible political bias on this issue?
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OTOH, the media may be the ones spreading an irrational fear of the unvaccinated...
Valid point.
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Just a little note of information here for you folks to ponder!
In the year 2001 the CDC declared measles to have been eradicated in the United States! It remained eradicated until Obama imported thousands of Central American children into the country illegally!
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Just a little note of information here for you folks to ponder!
In the year 2001 the CDC declared measles to have been eradicated in the United States! It remained eradicated until Obama imported thousands of Central American children into the country illegally!
Ponder the FACT it was eradicated because of vaccines. However one needs a mind, open enough to study the basics of public health.
Central American countries have equal or higher vaccination rates, than the modern USA, which is going backwards into ignorance, thanks to whackobirds spreading falsehoods over important public health topics.
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Valid point.
I don't know.
We have a rising number of unvaccinated citizens and a rising number of possibly unvaccinated people from the lower rungs of Hispano-American societies merging into the country.
All you need then is one unvaccinated kid from Juarez with presymptomatic measles riding the Jungle Cruise next to two unvaccinated siblings from Anaheim and VOILA!
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All you need then is one unvaccinated kid from Juarez with presymptomatic measles riding the Jungle Cruise next to two unvaccinated siblings from Anaheim and VOILA!
Or one unvaccinated kid from Juarez riding next to vaccinated children who remain susceptible to measles and VOILA!
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I don't know.
We have a rising number of unvaccinated citizens and a rising number of possibly unvaccinated people from the lower rungs of Hispano-American societies merging into the country.
All you need then is one unvaccinated kid from Juarez with presymptomatic measles riding the Jungle Cruise next to two unvaccinated siblings from Anaheim and VOILA!
I've read that it is possible to still get measles even after you've been vaccinated, so, maybe the infector is a danger to unvaccinated and vaccinated children, albeit at different rates.
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Silly states like California allow adults to opt out of vaccinating their children for "personal reasons".
It is not unreasonable to require certain vaccines prior to admission to the first year of school, public or private. It's not to protect your kid. It's to protect my kid and everyone else's kid. If you opt out, you're free to home school your child.
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It's not to protect your kid. It's to protect my kid and everyone else's kid.
If you're afraid for your kid, feel free to get them vaccinated as many times as you think are necessary for them to be protected.
Won't hurt your kid, vaccines are safe... right?
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This is worth studying. Called Herd Immunity. It expands upon sinkspur's remark that immunizing your child, protects my child, and vice versa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
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If you're afraid for your kid, feel free to get them vaccinated as many times as you think are necessary for them to be protected.
Won't hurt your kid, vaccines are safe... right?
You're apparently having trouble understanding how vaccinations work.
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Vaccination rates in Latin America are about equal to the US. This measles outbreak was from Disneyland, Anaheim, USA. Too expensive for illegals.
You don't know that. First of all, they don't have the same prevalence of diseases in Mexico and other south and central American countries. Americans are immune to some illnesses while Mexicans aren't, and vice versa.
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You're apparently having trouble understanding how vaccinations work.
You're the one apparently having trouble understanding how vaccinations work.
If they're so safe and effective, then get yourself vaccinated as many times as it takes for you to feel safe.
If you or your medical professional aren't comfortable with that, you may want to rethink your belief in the safety of vaccines...
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You don't know that. First of all, they don't have the same prevalence of diseases in Mexico and other south and central American countries. Americans are immune to some illnesses while Mexicans aren't, and vice versa.
Some people believe what the W.H.O. and Latin American governments say without question.
IMO, that's worse than accepting the U.S. government at face value...
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In 1974, Japan had a successful pertussis (whooping cough) vaccination program, with nearly 80% of Japanese children vaccinated. That year only 393 cases of pertussis were reported in the entire country, and there were no deaths from pertussis. But then rumors began to spread that pertussis vaccination was no longer needed and that the vaccine was not safe, and by 1976 only 10% of infants were getting vaccinated. In 1979 Japan suffered a major pertussis epidemic, with more than 13,000 cases of whooping cough and 41 deaths. In 1981 the government began vaccinating with acellular pertussis vaccine, and the number of pertussis cases dropped again.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm
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http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/why.htm
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...
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You don't know that. First of all, they don't have the same prevalence of diseases in Mexico and other south and central American countries. Americans are immune to some illnesses while Mexicans aren't, and vice versa.
Yes, I do know it for I looked it up, and posted it here a few days ago.
Now go study public health concepts, and herd immunization with an open mind.
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There's no question that a good vaccine does what it's intended to do: stimulate the immune response to produce antibodies. But there's also no question that some vaccines can cause injury and death in some individuals; there's plenty of documentation supporting that as well.
The problem comes in mandating vaccines to those who cannot be vaccinated, either because they are too young or because an immunological condition makes vaccination too risky; those who choose—or whose parents choose for them—not to get vaccinated for nonmedical reasons such as religious or personal beliefs; and those who have been vaccinated but whose immunological response is insufficient to protect them from potential infection.
There are possible deadly consequences to taking the vaccine. The risk may seem small to some of you. But if it's your child that dies or is permanently disabled from the vaccine, was the risk worth it?
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There's no question that a good vaccine does what it's intended to do: stimulate the immune response to produce antibodies. But there's also no question that some vaccines can cause injury and death in some individuals; there's plenty of documentation supporting that as well.
The problem comes in mandating vaccines to those who cannot be vaccinated, either because they are too young or because an immunological condition makes vaccination too risky; those who choose—or whose parents choose for them—not to get vaccinated for nonmedical reasons such as religious or personal beliefs; and those who have been vaccinated but whose immunological response is insufficient to protect them from potential infection.
There are possible deadly consequences to taking the vaccine. The risk may seem small to some of you. But if it's your child that dies or is permanently disabled from the vaccine, was the risk worth it?
Then I cannot understand why we even attempt to develop vaccines in the first place. Smallpox, diphtheria and polio largely eradicated in the USA with vaccines.
All for naught. We should not have done it. Why bother with clean water, either. It is probably a communist plot, too. /s
The things which gives the individual that opts out the chance to do so without consequence, are the others who went before and aided either total eradication, or nearly so.
There are legitimate medical reasons to opt out. An example is an organ transplant patient, who has a lifelong compromised immune system.
But the medical exceptions are few and far between, and a community with a high vaccination rate gives those limited medical exception individuals the safety to presume little risks.
Read about "herd immunity" which should be understandable to people able to grasp science, logic, statistics, probability math etc.
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Read about "herd immunity" which should be understandable to people able to grasp science, logic, statistics, probability math etc.
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...
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This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...
I am fine with that. They were "forced" on me in the Army. And as a child, too. I remember people with crutches, braces and wheelchairs, from polio. I remember how grateful parents and grandparents when we got polio immunization.
Do you support "enforcement" of blood alcohol limits for driving, on all citizens by their government?
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I know all about herd immunity.
But consider this. The immune system keep the majority protected from disease and has since the beginning of life on earth.
Now they tell us in order to survive as a species or civilization we need help of vaccines. Vaccines are relatively new and I don't think the issue is settled yet. There's still plenty of area for research, such as with SIDS and with the alarming growth of autism, which some believe has a vaccine connection.
Far too many doctors today can't define what health is. Sure, they can tell you what disease is, but they can't tell you much about health. They're too busy chasing symptoms and prescribing something, anything, just to satisfy a demanding patient who wants to be given "something."
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This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...
I am fine with that.
I know you are. Everybody else isn't...
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I know all about herd immunity.
But consider this. The immune system keep the majority protected from disease and has since the beginning of life on earth.
Now they tell us in order to survive as a species or civilization we need help of vaccines. Vaccines are relatively new and I don't think the issue is settled yet. There's still plenty of area for research, such as with SIDS and with the alarming growth of autism, which some believe has a vaccine connection.
Far too many doctors today can't define what health is. Sure, they can tell you what disease is, but they can't tell you much about health. They're too busy chasing symptoms and prescribing something, anything, just to satisfy a demanding patient who wants to be given "something."
Autism is not CAUSED by vaccines. It is a genetic disorder. PERIOD.
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This is crazy.
You want your kids vaccinated, do it then you don't have to worry about those that don't..
Just don't presume to know all there is to know about someone else medical issues/care and use the federal government to force your views on others...
There, problem solved...
I don't understand what the issue is here....
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Now they tell us in order to survive as a species or civilization we need help of vaccines. Vaccines are relatively new and I don't think the issue is settled yet. There's still plenty of area for research, such as with SIDS and with the alarming growth of autism, which some believe has a vaccine connection.
The fact that they won't give them to immuno-suppressed individuals tells you there is some risk.
The fact that they don't test people's immune-system before administering tells you that some people will suffer adverse consequences and it's like russian roullette.
At this point, vaccines are more about profits for big-pharma than public health...
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BTW, this is the type of nonsense that generally lives on TOS. 1 child out of 100,000 has a negative reaction from a vaccination, unless an allergy exists. It's not the age group peers who get infected by the non-immunized, it's the infants who get infected by the non-immunized.
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This is crazy.
You want your kids vaccinated, do it then you don't have to worry about those that don't..
Actually, that's what the herd immunity claim is about.
The vaccines aren't always effective, so even if you are vaccinated you can still get the disease.
There is risk to taking the vaccines, otherwise you could take them as often as you wanted.
Still some want the government to force everyone to take them so they feel protected.
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BTW, this is the type of nonsense that generally lives on TOS. 1 child out of 100,000 has a negative reaction from a vaccination, unless an allergy exists. It's not the age group peers who get infected by the non-immunized, it's the infants who get infected by the non-immunized.
Or those who get the disease from the vaccine or those who were vaccinated but are still susceptible to the disease.
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BTW, this is the type of nonsense that generally lives on TOS. 1 child out of 100,000 has a negative reaction from a vaccination, unless an allergy exists. It's not the age group peers who get infected by the non-immunized, it's the infants who get infected by the non-immunized.
You might change your tune if it was your child that died after suffering a severe reaction. It's all fine in the abstract, but when it's your child, it's no longer abstract.
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Actually, that's what the herd immunity claim is about.
The vaccines aren't always effective, so even if you are vaccinated you can still get the disease.
There is risk to taking the vaccines, otherwise you could take them as often as you wanted.
Still some want the government to force everyone to take them so they feel protected.
I know Dan.... just drives me crazy because this is what goes on at capital hill and is precisely the reason nothing of real value gets accomplished.
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I know Dan.... just drives me crazy because this is what goes on at capital hill and is precisely the reason nothing of real value gets accomplished.
Unfortunately, the craziness isn't confined to Capitol Hill.
There are plenty around here who are quite comfortable with the government forcing people to be immunized against their will...
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You might change your tune if it was your child that died after suffering a severe reaction. It's all fine in the abstract, but when it's your child, it's no longer abstract.
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I know all about herd immunity.
But consider this. The immune system keep the majority protected from disease and has since the beginning of life on earth.
Now they tell us in order to survive as a species or civilization we need help of vaccines. Vaccines are relatively new and I don't think the issue is settled yet. There's still plenty of area for research, such as with SIDS and with the alarming growth of autism, which some believe has a vaccine connection.
Far too many doctors today can't define what health is. Sure, they can tell you what disease is, but they can't tell you much about health. They're too busy chasing symptoms and prescribing something, anything, just to satisfy a demanding patient who wants to be given "something."
Unsettled with regard to polio, diphtheria, small pox, tuberculosis? I must have missed the "unsettled" nature of those serious public health threats, all nearly eradicated by vaccinations. Apparently the human immune system failed to protect people, until we used vaccines.
My grandfather lost 3 siblings to diphtheria during the 1880s and 1890s, in Dakota Territory. At the time they "treated" diphtheria by gargling kerosene.
As school kids, my wife and I remember people with braces, crutches and wheelchairs for polio. And we remember how grateful people were, about the polio vaccine.
But alas, things we learned the hard way, are being taken for granted and then lost, as we regress into broad public ignorance.
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You might change your tune if it was your child that died after suffering a severe reaction. It's all fine in the abstract, but when it's your child, it's no longer abstract.
You may also change your mind if you (or your child) were one of those 549,000 cases of measles reported yearly in the US before 1969, or one of the 500 yearly deaths directly attributed to measles.
Since the danger of death or life-long complications due to measles have been removed from our collective memories by a generation of effective herd immunization, now we're more concerned about the possible negative dangers of vaccination, which may impact a small percentage of the population, and are advocating exposing the greater population to the dangers of the disease, all based on false and unfounded accusations promoted by ex-Playboy model turned junk scientist Jenny McCarthy, and discredited tin-foil conspiracists.
There were over 300 deaths attributed to malfunctioning seat belts in 2014, does that justify a movement to stop using seat belts?
The anti-vaccine movement is unfounded hysteria based on junk science and correlation/causation logical fallacies that will hurt more children than it will help.
I feel bad for those parents whose children may have been hurt or killed by complications with vaccinations, but their deaths do not add up to sufficient cause to endanger all the nation's children.
World-wide, there were more than 500,000 deaths from measles in 2003... none in the US.
Last year, 105 kids died from the flu. Ninety percent were not vaccinated.
From June 3rd 2007 through January 24th 2015 there have been 6,328 preventable deaths attributed to lack of vaccination in the US.
Vaccines work.
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Vaccines work.
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...
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Unsettled with regard to polio, diphtheria, small pox, tuberculosis? I must have missed the "unsettled" nature of those serious public health threats, all nearly eradicated by vaccinations. Apparently the human immune system failed to protect people, until we used vaccines.
My grandfather lost 3 siblings to diphtheria during the 1880s and 1890s, in Dakota Territory. At the time they "treated" diphtheria by gargling kerosene.
As school kids, my wife and I remember people with braces, crutches and wheelchairs for polio. And we remember how grateful people were, about the polio vaccine.
But alas, things we learned the hard way, are being taken for granted and then lost, as we regress into broad public ignorance.
I had a good friend in kindergarten who wore those braces and walked with crutches, and have been thankful for the polio vaccine my entire life because of that.
Just because there are certain things that are required by government, doesn't mean we are completely controlled by them.
The eradication of deadly disease is no small matter, and for me, it's unfortunate that those of us who are in agreement with vaccinating children to prevent the spread of diseases that have been under control in our lifetime are being categorized (by at least one among us) as somehow being in support of government control of our lives.
It's an extreme accusation from a small minority, and IMO, is out of line.
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I had a good friend in kindergarten who wore those braces and walked with crutches, and have been thankful for the polio vaccine my entire life because of that.
Just because there are certain things that are required by government, doesn't mean we are completely controlled by them.
The eradication of deadly disease is no small matter, and for me, it's unfortunate that those of us who are in agreement with vaccinating children to prevent the spread of diseases that have been under control in our lifetime are being categorized (by at least one among us) as somehow being in support of government control of our lives.
It's an extreme accusation from a small minority, and IMO, is out of line.
Most susceptible to the disease are those who are not vaccinated.
Making the choice to not vaccinate is a personal thing... right up until you take into consideration that the members of our society that are put in harm's way by those who choose to not vaccinate, are those who CAN'T have the vaccine because they are either too young (infants) or too old.
A unvaccinated pregnant mother that contracts measles endangers her unborn child.
For any number of a group of people who pride themselves in reverence for the sanctity of life to demand the right to endanger the lives of the newly born, the unborn, and the elderly based on junk science and the right to do what we want to do with our bodies, seems flat out hypocritical.
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For any number of a group of people who pride themselves in reverence for the sanctity of life to demand the right to endanger the lives of the newly born, the unborn, and the elderly based on junk science and the right to do what we want to do with our bodies, seems flat out hypocritical.
Said the master of equivocation and non sequitur...
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government...
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Most susceptible to the disease are those who are not vaccinated.
Making the choice to not vaccinate is a personal thing... right up until you take into consideration that the members of our society that are put in harm's way by those who choose to not vaccinate, are those who CAN'T have the vaccine because they are either too young (infants) or too old.
A unvaccinated pregnant mother that contracts measles endangers her unborn child.
For any number of a group of people who pride themselves in reverence for the sanctity of life to demand the right to endanger the lives of the newly born, the unborn, and the elderly based on junk science and the right to do what we want to do with our bodies, seems flat out hypocritical.
I don't believe anyone disagrees that for the most part, vaccines are/can be a good thing. The issue is you want the federal government to mandate, track, register, tax, fine and jail anyone that does not comply.
why can't the states take care of this if the voters want it? Why does obama need to know who in my family gets a shot?
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Most susceptible to the disease are those who are not vaccinated.
Making the choice to not vaccinate is a personal thing... right up until you take into consideration that the members of our society that are put in harm's way by those who choose to not vaccinate, are those who CAN'T have the vaccine because they are either too young (infants) or too old.
A unvaccinated pregnant mother that contracts measles endangers her unborn child.
For any number of a group of people who pride themselves in reverence for the sanctity of life to demand the right to endanger the lives of the newly born, the unborn, and the elderly based on junk science and the right to do what we want to do with our bodies, seems flat out hypocritical.
The sanctity of life issue is a valid one, Luis.
Every pregnant woman who gets medical care is tested for Rubella because that disease harms the unborn child.
For those of us who are pro-life, that unborn child is a human being deserving to be protected. The same is true of infants and the elderly.
In addition, the argument that we have the right to do what we want with our own bodies is one that has been used by the pro-abortion crowd for decades, in the name of "liberty."
It doesn't wash with me....
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As far as I can determine, vaccine enforcement is a state and local issue, hence posting by me from Mother Earth, about different opt out policies by state.
So as it turns out, it is NOT the federal government forcing people to do things.
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You might change your tune if it was your child that died after suffering a severe reaction. It's all fine in the abstract, but when it's your child, it's no longer abstract.
That is life.
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As far as I can determine, vaccine enforcement is a state and local issue, hence posting by me from Mother Earth, about different opt out policies by state.
So as it turns out, it is NOT the federal government forcing people to do things.
It is normally the County Health Department that deals with immunizations.
At least that's the way it was when our children were immunized, and any of us have gotten vaccines for overseas travel.
Someone may feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that. ^-^
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I don't believe anyone disagrees that for the most part, vaccines are/can be a good thing. The issue is you want the federal government to mandate, track, register, tax, fine and jail anyone that does not comply.
why can't the states take care of this if the voters want it? Why does obama need to know who in my family gets a shot?
It's not the Federal government, however, I think that the real issue here is that we've lost so much common sense and ability to actually think for ourselves that having the government enforce vaccinations may become an actual necessity.
Then there are the ancillary issues such as the one musiclady points out. We want to deny others the "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it" argument when it comes to abortion based on the moral argument that life is sacred, then turn around and make that same argument when it comes to endangering the unborn, the newly born, the elderly and infirm, and our children in general, in order to support our individual right to do what we want with our bodies and our children.
That's the height of hypocrisy.
So whether it's abortion or same-sex marriage, we either act in concert with what we believe is in the best interest of society, and be ready to give up as many individual freedoms as those we want to take from others, or not. What we don't get to do is make the argument that we can decide for others what they can or can't do in the name of the better interest of society, then turn around and claim title to the right to acting in a manner detrimental to that same society, in the name of individual freedom.
That's is tyranny.
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Then there are the ancillary issues such as the one musiclady points out. We want to deny others the "it's my body and I'll do what I want with it" argument when it comes to abortion based on the moral argument that life is sacred, then turn around and make that same argument when it comes to endangering the unborn, the newly born, the elderly and infirm, and our children in general, in order to support our individual right to do what we want with our bodies and our children.
That's the height of hypocrisy.
Then you must agree with the left on things like getting rid of carbon based fuels because those that do not drive or fly suffer and banning guns because those that do not have gun are scared?
We need to be consistent, either you are responsible for yourself and your family or the government is?
I share your compassion, don't get me wrong, but it is MY responsibility to take care of me and mine, period. If I am concerned, then I will take the action.
The government, at all levels, has screwed up everything they have ever touched.
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As far as I can determine, vaccine enforcement is a state and local issue, hence posting by me from Mother Earth, about different opt out policies by state.
So as it turns out, it is NOT the federal government forcing people to do things.
Nowadays, everything is a federal issue, dontcha know. There is no formerly-local issue into which the federal government cannot interject itself.
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Then you must agree with the left on things like getting rid of carbon based fuels because those that do not drive or fly suffer and banning guns because those that do not have gun are scared?
We need to be consistent, either you are responsible for yourself and your family or the government is?
I share your compassion, don't get me wrong, but it is MY responsibility to take care of me and mine, period. If I am concerned, then I will take the action.
The government, at all levels, has screwed up everything they have ever touched.
Actually, you have it perfectly backwards.
Those who advocate against vaccines because of the dangers they may impose of a small percentage of the population while ignoring their benefits to the greater portion of the population are in the same camp with those who advocate against guns because of the possibility of danger to a small percentage of the population all the while ignoring the greater benefits of gun ownership.
If it is solely YOUR responsibility to care for you and yours, the why would you believe that exposing you and yours to the inherent dangers of preventable diseases is considered caring for you and yours?
If you are not vaccinated, and you contract a preventable disease like measles and during its presymptomatic period you cross paths with a pre-vaccination infant, a pregnant unvaccinated mother, an active chemotherapy patient, someone who is HIV positive or just has autoimmunity system issues, you have (as a result of your decision to "care" for you and yours) given someone who is unable to protect themselves the disease.
The reverse of that situation is also deadly. If you are a pregnant, unvaccinated woman, a pre vaccination stage infant, an active chemotherapy patient, someone who is HIV positive or just has autoimmunity system issues, and you (unable to defend yourself from the disease for any of those reasons) come across a presymptomatic (or even symptomatic) disease carrier, your ability and your right to care for you and yours has been usurped by someone else's decision.
This has NOTHING to do with government, other than the fact that members of the government have opinions on the subject.
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The intellect who warned against people shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre also believed "Three generations of imbeciles" were enough.
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If you are not vaccinated, and you contract a preventable disease like measles and during its presymptomatic period you cross paths with a pre-vaccination infant, a pregnant unvaccinated mother, an active chemotherapy patient, someone who is HIV positive or just has autoimmunity system issues, you have (as a result of your decision to "care" for you and yours) given someone who is unable to protect themselves the disease.
What if you are vaccinated and you contract a preventable disease like measles and during its presymptomatic period you cross paths with a pre-vaccination infant, a pregnant unvaccinated mother, an active chemotherapy patient, someone who is HIV positive or just has autoimmunity system issues. Is that OK?
Why don't you go assign blame to the person who gave you the preventable disease rather than the vaccinated/unvaccinated person who contracts the disease?
How far down the rabbit-hole does one go before assigning blame and subsequent punishment?
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Nowadays, everything is a federal issue, dontcha know. There is no formerly-local issue into which the federal government cannot interject itself.
And that is a HUGE problem in itself!
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How far down the rabbit-hole does one go before assigning blame and subsequent punishment?
Blame? Punish? yikes....
Life has risks and you can choose to accept that, take the precautions you can, and move on with your life or lock yourself away and be afraid, and teach your kids to be afraid.
There is not enough paper to hold enough laws to eliminate risk.
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(http://liberallogic101.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/liberal-logic-101-1380-500x416.jpg)
Thats just the most damm stupid thing I have seen in a while :thud:
http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
(http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/wpvfv/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg)
http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Anti-Vaccine_Body_Count/Home.html
autism was described in 1908 and goes back for centuries
http://prerainmanautism.blogspot.com/2009/06/wild-boy-introduction.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_of_Aveyron
Conservatives make themselves look stupid by getting wrapped up in this anti scientific conspiracy crap
I have to side with the state on mandatory vaccines
not vaccinating against measles,whooping cough,etc is child endangerment
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Thats just the most damm stupid thing I have seen in a while
Conservatives make themselves look stupid by getting wrapped up in this anti scientific conspiracy crap
I have to side with the state on mandatory vaccines
not vaccinating against measles,whooping cough,etc is child endangerment
This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government.
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This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government.
Whatever it takes .personal freedom does not mean putting others at risk or especially your kids
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This, therefore, is evidence that vaccinations must be forced upon all citizens by their government.
The majority of the public is not okay with their children being put at risk because of your bad decisions. So yes, in much the same way you are not allowed to drive drunk because it puts other people at risk, you should be forced to get vaccinated so you do not put other people (and yourself) at risk. Personal freedoms are one thing, but when you are potentially causing harm to other people it becomes something different entirely. You could always move to Africa if you have an issue with modern medicine.
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Yes, I do know it for I looked it up, and posted it here a few days ago.
Now go study public health concepts, and herd immunization with an open mind.
Yeah, the liberal media is going to report something negative about illegal aliens...The viruses from last year came from the large herd of illegals that entered our country last year that Republican establishment people like you support. You ignored the fact that what they're immune to isn't what we're immune to.
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Gary Null has evidence that vaccines are linked with autism and diseases were declining as vaccines were introduced.
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Gary Null has evidence that vaccines are linked with autism and diseases were declining as vaccines were introduced.
Who am I to believe, you and Gary Null, or the mainstream medical community?
I rely on my own doctor, who told me vaccines are the way to go. You and your Gary Null strike me as being fringe kooks.
The autism nonsense has been debunked, but you are of course entitled to your own opinion, however wrong it is.
Following up, I learned at www.garynull.com that he is affiliated with "Progressive Radio Network" which includes Pacifica.
Did you know that? Are you a listener of Pacifica, or a reader of their material? Do you know about them?
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Gary Null has evidence that vaccines are linked with autism and diseases were declining as vaccines were introduced.
Gary Null is an entertainer who has a PhD in nutrition from online university.
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Gary Null is an entertainer who has a PhD in nutrition from online university.
He is affiliated with PRN, for Progressive Radio Network.
http://blog.garynull.com/
http://prn.fm/
Apparently our member has been duped. Null is a fringe kook on the left. He advertises his "natural" healthcare formulations on PRN.
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Whatever it takes .personal freedom does not mean putting others at risk or especially your kids
Children do not belong to the state.
You cannot be free without assuming risk.
If vaccines are so safe and effective, then get yourself vaccinated as many times as it takes for you to feel safe.
If you or your medical professional aren't comfortable with that, you may want to rethink your belief in the safety and effectiveness of vaccines...
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http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/complications.html
(http://www.voicesforvaccines.org/wpvfv/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/c6fb5feb7f1ee71b7e725277d30999161.jpg)
You do realize that your CDC link says "For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it." and your graphic says 530,217 ANNUAL DEATHS from measles IN THE U.S. in the pre-vaccine era.
This indicates an annual infection rate of between 265 and 530 million cases of measles IN THE U.S. ALONE EACH YEAR.
Yeah, those 'voicesforvaccines.org' people are REALLY on the ball... :silly:
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You do realize that your CDC link says "For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it." and your graphic says 530,217 ANNUAL DEATHS from measles IN THE U.S. in the pre-vaccine era.
This indicates an annual infection rate of between 265 and 530 million cases of measles IN THE U.S. ALONE EACH YEAR.
Yeah, those 'voicesforcaccines.org' people are REALLY on the ball... :silly:
You wouldn't be suggesting that these folks made up the data in this little chart would you??? Surely not!
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You wouldn't be suggesting that these folks made up the data in this little chart would you??? Surely not!
It's so funny when people say things like...
Thats just the most damm stupid thing I have seen in a while
Conservatives make themselves look stupid by getting wrapped up in this anti scientific conspiracy crap
I have to side with the state on mandatory vaccines not vaccinating against measles,whooping cough,etc is child endangerment
And then post the most stupid thing anybody has seen in a while themselves... :silly:
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It's so funny when people say things like...
And then post the most stupid thing anybody has seen in a while themselves... :silly:
anybody who thinks that measles is a harmless childhood disease is stupid
but facts don't seem to matter to you or the rest of the anti vaccine crowd(http://www.iayork.com/Images/2008/8-22-08/MeaslesDeathsUSA.png)
(http://diseasespictures.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Measles-4.jpg)
http://www.dermaamin.com/site/images/clinical-pic/m/measles/measles3.jpg ....DISTURBING IMAGE
(https://scottnursten.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/measles.png?w=194&h=300)
yeah real good parenting there sparkey , It 's like trying to reason with a 9/11 truther
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anybody who thinks that measles is a harmless childhood disease is stupid
but facts don't seem to matter to you or the rest of the anti vaccine crowd
yeah real good parenting there sparkey , It 's like trying to reason with a 9/11 truther
Apparently facts don't matter to you either when you want to post a graphic claiming 530, 217 ANNUAL DEATHS in the U.S. You're only off by about 3 orders of magnitude.
Hint, those bars in your latest image don't represent thousands of deaths.
You might also read the article I posted showing that it's more likely that the measles are being spread by the recently vaccinated, rather than the un-vaccinated... Sparky...
Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease (http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html)
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You wouldn't be suggesting that these folks made up the data in this little chart would you??? Surely not!
The chart is not published by the CDC, it was created by a blog called voicesforvaccines.org.
They made an error.
The 500+ morbidity rate cited is yearly, but world-wide.
Measles is an infectious disease caused by a virus. There is an effective vaccine which can prevent measles, nevertheless 30 to 40 million people worldwide still develop measles annually. Each year measles causes more than half a million deaths and is responsible for an estimated 44% of the 1.7 million vaccine‐preventable deaths among children. Measles is associated with complications such as pneumonia, ear infections, throat infections, diarrhea and conjunctivitis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0011067/
That wold-wide morbidity data has probably remained unchanged for quite some time since the countries with the highest rate of deaths in the past still don't vaccinate.
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If vaccines are so effective why would parents who have vaccinated their children be worried about exposure to children who have not been?
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If vaccines are so effective why would parents who have vaccinated their children be worried about exposure to children who have not been?
Now THAT is one EXCELLENT question!
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I don't agree with Gary Null on some political issues, but I trust him on health and nutrition. He's cured a nine year old who had autism. The autism/vaccine link hasn't been debunked. Just because Null has some liberal views doesn't mean that he's not someone I trust on health. Michael Savage is a conservative, but is has different views on health.
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If vaccines are so effective why would parents who have vaccinated their children be worried about exposure to children who have not been?
I'm not worried about my kids. They're vaccinated.
I'm not even worried about the kids of those parents that choose to not vaccinate them. They will have todeal with whatever consequences their children may have to face as a result of their decisions.
I worry about the kids who pay with their bodies, their health, and maybe even their lives for their parent's irresponsible (IMHO) decision, and I feel sorry for them because they are the victims of a bad decision..
Then there is the third set of individuals.
The unborn children of unvaccinated mothers.
Those too young to be vaccinated.
Those too sick to be vaccinated.
Those with immunodeficient disorders.
Those undergoing chemotherapy.
Those too old to be vaccinated.
They will suffer the consequences of a choice they didn't get to make.
We as a society, and as the individual members of that society, either believe that life is precious enough to sacrifice a measure of personal freedoms to protect, or that the sacrifice of some innocent lives is a price well worth paying for the right to choose what to do with our own bodies and not vaccinate.
People point out that there is an inherent risk to vaccinations, and that a small percentage of children who receive vaccines have an adverse reaction to the vaccine itself.
That is indeed true.
But the greater the risk to the greater portion of society lies with not being vaccinated, not with being vaccinated, so I see the decision to not vaccinate as immoral.
Consider this.
There is an inherent risk involved in wearing a seat belt; tens of thousands have been killed as a direct result of being strapped into a car seat by a seat belt during an accident.
I fully support the idea that it should be your right to decide whether or not to wear that seat belt, because during the course of an automobile accident, the totality of the consequences of your decision to not wear a seat belt will be borne by you, and you alone.
In the case of vaccines, others will be exposed to the (possibly fatal) consequences of your decision to not vaccinate yourself or your children.
That's why I vehemently support vaccinations and the concept of herd immunity.
Ob Facebook yesterday, I posted a a bit of personal data an bout vaccines.
When I was living in Cuba (I was about 5 maybe 8 years old) I feel and suffered a rather deep cut from a piece of metal. My parents did the right thing and took me to the hospital where the attending physician told my parents that I should get be vaccinated against tetanus as a precaution.
I stopped breathing shortly after receiving the shot, and I had to be resuscitated, consequently spending a number of days hospitalized as a result.
I speak from a position of having a very personal experience with the dangers of vaccine, and I thank God that I made it thorough, and that my parents made the difficult choice to vaccinate me in the face of those possible dangers, because I KNOW that their decision was made with my best interest at heart, and in an attempt to protect me from the greater danger that was tetanus.
I went through chicken pox and Mumps and played with kids wearing those braces so many children had to wear after a bout of polio.
I lived in a pre-vaccination campaign Cuba, and it was not pretty.
I vaccinate my kids, and I thank God for the availability of vaccines.
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I don't agree with Gary Null on some political issues, but I trust him on health and nutrition. He's cured a nine year old who had autism. The autism/vaccine link hasn't been debunked. Just because Null has some liberal views doesn't mean that he's not someone I trust on health. Michael Savage is a conservative, but is has different views on health.
(CNN) -- A now-retracted British study that linked autism to childhood vaccines was an "elaborate fraud" that has done long-lasting damage to public health, a leading medical publication reported Wednesday.
An investigation published by the British medical journal BMJ concludes the study's author, Dr. Andrew Wakefield, misrepresented or altered the medical histories of all 12 of the patients whose cases formed the basis of the 1998 study -- and that there was "no doubt" Wakefield was responsible.
"It's one thing to have a bad study, a study full of error, and for the authors then to admit that they made errors," Fiona Godlee, BMJ's editor-in-chief, told CNN. "But in this case, we have a very different picture of what seems to be a deliberate attempt to create an impression that there was a link by falsifying the data."
Britain stripped Wakefield of his medical license in May. "Meanwhile, the damage to public health continues, fueled by unbalanced media reporting and an ineffective response from government, researchers, journals and the medical profession," BMJ states in an editorial accompanying the work.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/
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In the case of vaccines, others will be exposed to the (possibly fatal) consequences of your decision to not vaccinate yourself or your children.
That's why I vehemently support vaccinations and the concept of herd immunity.
As noted a couple of times above (now 3 times), it is the vaccinated who spread most of the disease.
Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease (http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html)
You're tilting at the wrong windmill...
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As noted a couple of times above (now 3 times), it is the vaccinated who spread most of the disease.
Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease (http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html)
You're tilting at the wrong windmill...
Thanks for the wild goose chase using 10 seconds I'll never get back again. Documentary film-maker? Oh, like "Silent Spring" that condemned people around the world for more than a half-century of malaria?
Please stop with the alarmist bu llshit already.
You are no longer allowed to use a computer, drive a car, a light bulb or any other God damned thing invented after 1826. Go give yourself a colonic or eat a graham cracker.
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I stopped breathing shortly after receiving the shot, and I had to be resuscitated, consequently spending a number of days hospitalized as a result.
I speak from a position of having a very personal experience with the dangers of vaccine, and I thank God that I made it thorough, and that my parents made the difficult choice to vaccinate me in the face of those possible dangers, because I KNOW that their decision was made with my best interest at heart, and in an attempt to protect me from the greater danger that was tetanus.
Typical liberal approach to life... feelings are what really matter... not reality...
And everyone else must be forced to behave in conformity with your feelings...
Why leave Cuba in the first place? For freedom?
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Thanks for the wild goose chase using 10 seconds I'll never get back again. Documentary film-maker? Oh, like "Silent Spring" that condemned people around the world for more than a half-century of malaria?
Please stop with the alarmist bu llshit already.
You are no longer allowed to use a computer, drive a car, a light bulb or any other God damned thing invented after 1826. Go give yourself a colonic or eat a graham cracker.
Didn't even notice that the comments were supported by scientific articles in the footnotes, did you?
Wild goose chase indeed...
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Thanks for the wild goose chase using 10 seconds I'll never get back again. Documentary film-maker? Oh, like "Silent Spring" that condemned people around the world for more than a half-century of malaria?
Please stop with the alarmist bu llshit already.
You are no longer allowed to use a computer, drive a car, a light bulb or any other God damned thing invented after 1826. Go give yourself a colonic or eat a graham cracker.
:beer:
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As noted a couple of times above (now 3 times), it is the vaccinated who spread most of the disease.
Studies Show that Vaccinated Individuals Spread Disease (http://globenewswire.com/news-release/2015/02/02/702199/10118172/en/Studies-Show-that-Vaccinated-Individuals-Spread-Disease.html)
:silly: **nononono*
thats like saying Rosie O Donnell makes people fat